Catherine Austin Fitts details her blacklisting by Treasury Secretary Nick Brady and subsequent appointment under Jack Kemp, revealing how she witnessed $20 trillion vanish from the federal system starting in October 1997. She exposes the diversion of HUD funds to secret space programs and underground bases, arguing that pension trustees can force disclosure by rejecting securities with material omissions rather than accepting narratives of CIA involvement or TTSA junk. Ultimately, her testimony suggests a deep state operation using missing trillions to finance covert infrastructure while abandoning national economic stability. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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A Different Path Emerges00:14:36
Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
Today I have an exciting show for you.
Our special guest is former Assistant Secretary of Housing Catherine Austin Fitz.
Now, Catherine has just released her amazing new Solari report on the space based economy.
Who's who and what's up?
We'll talk to her about the powerful revelations inside her report, President Trump's announcement of a space force, and her diligent effort over two decades to bring to light the missing trillions from various government agencies.
Get ready.
Secretary Fitz is in the house.
Catherine, it's great to have you back with us.
It's great to be back.
Yes, definitely.
Now, before we get started, I want to mention here that we came across some footage recently of you and Jack Kemp at a press conference.
You were announcing all of these HUD reforms, and when I was looking at this, I started to think, wow, that's almost 30 years ago.
This incredible journey that got started there when you saw how things really worked in Washington, D.C. How do you look back on that now, you know, when you think of the incredible crossroads in your life and all the incredible things that have happened since?
Well, the first thing that always comes to mind when I think of that is how I ended up at HUD because it's such an unusual story.
Right.
And what a bizarre turn of events put me at HUD, which is not the kind of place you would ever expect me to land.
So, you know, there was a moment when your life takes a totally different path.
And, you know, it's a very unexpected path.
It was not the pathway I expected to take, but it really happened because of what.
What happened to cause me to go to HUD, which is a long story, which I'm happy to share with you, but it's a long story.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You want it?
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So I was a partner of Dylan Reed, and the firm had sold the firm in 86, subject to a lot of non compete contracts that came up in 88.
Right.
And the chairman of the firm, who I had always worked for, went down to be Secretary of the Treasury, Nick Brady.
But a lot of the different partners were going into the administration.
And the new head of the firm was somebody who just, you know, he'd never liked me and we didn't hit it off.
And I felt perfectly comfortable working with him, but there was something about me that he just was not comfortable.
And I knew it.
So I had a lot of offers to go to other firms, but I didn't want, I promised Brady that I would not get the firm and take my business with me and go to another firm.
So I promised him I would never do that.
I would institutionalize the business and try and leave Dylan better off for that two years and then I'll compete.
Anyway, so I thought, well, the way to do this, since I'm not really going to be safe under the new guy, I have to leave.
The way to sort of keep my obligations to Brady and my promises to Brady and to do right by Dylan Reed was simply to go into the administration, which a lot of the other partners were doing.
I'm in my office and I was coordinating.
Craig Fuller was running the transition.
He and one other guy, Craig Fuller had been Bush's chief of staff when he was vice president.
So I was coordinating with Fuller's staff about sort of going into the administration and I get a call from one of Fuller's people.
I'm sitting in my office, you know, these big glass windows and, you know, I'm a partner, Dylan Reed.
And the person says, You're not going to believe this.
Brady just blackballed you.
I said, what are you talking about?
And they said, Sununu, Darman, Brady, Baker, a couple other guys were in the transition meeting with Fuller and the co head of the transition team.
I forget who it was, it might have been Ailes.
And they were arguing about what woman would be in the cabinet.
And Fuller got frustrated and said, you know, you've rejected everybody on the A team.
They were talking about Carla Hills for trade representative.
You've rejected every woman on the A team.
You know, the president has ordered there must be a woman in the cabinet.
So, what's, you know, what do you guys want?
And so apparently, Brady said, Well, who's number one on the B list?
And so Fuller said, Your partner, Austin Fitz, is number one on the B list.
But she has no government experience.
You can't just put her in a cabinet position because she has no government position.
Now we put people with no government experience in the presidency.
So it's a new day.
But then you had to have a lot.
The idea was you didn't want to put somebody into the cabinet who hadn't spent some time in the swamp and understood how dangerous it was.
So Brady looks back appalled and he said, under no circumstances may Catherine Austin Fitz come work in a Bush administration.
Oh, wow.
Blackball.
So, you know, Craig gets back, tells his assistant, you better go tell Fitz she's got a problem and she's got to fix her problem.
There's nothing I could do.
So I get the call literally 15 minutes after Fuller gets back to his office.
I was furious, Daniel.
I had never asked Nick Brady for anything in my life.
And my attitude was, you know, how dare you do this to me?
Yeah.
Because now I'm in a squeeze play.
The guy he appointed to run the firm, you know, some people say it was the Rothschilds appointed him.
You know, I can't stay.
I got to go.
And the only option is to take the business with me.
So I called his assistant, who I'd known for, you know, the 11 years I've been at Dylan Reed.
And I said, Gene, I don't care if he is the effing Secretary of Treasury.
She'd never heard me use the F word before.
I said, I don't care if he's the effing Secretary of Treasury, you put him on the phone right now.
And she said, Oh my.
She puts him on.
And I said, Who the eff do you think you are to blackball me?
And I could hear Nick just freeze because this is only within 60 minutes of him blackballing me, I know.
That's great.
Okay.
So this is the highest level people in the cabinet, and I know.
And oh, Nick had said to Fuller, Well, how do you know about Catherine Austin Fitz?
And Fuller said, You know, she raised a lot of money for the president.
She's really active in Republican politics.
She was a delegate at the convention.
Everybody knows her.
You know, are you proving?
Because Brady can be a space cadet.
Anyway, so I said, Who do you think you are to blackball me?
And then he told me a lie.
He said, Ed Budd, who was the chairman of Travelers, who they told the government to, I promised Ed Budd I wouldn't poach the firm.
And I said, Nick, I have a million dollar sign up bonus offer from Firm X to go there and take all the business.
How do you think Ed Bud is going to feel about tens of millions of profits walking out the door to another firm?
How do you think he's going to feel about that?
Yeah.
And I said, You've let me know my way of leaving all the business here and keeping my obligations to you was to come into the administration.
All right.
I go to another firm, I take all the business, and I don't think Ed Bud's going to like that.
So you're making it really hard for me to keep my commitments here.
And Brady said, Oh, S. You know, oh, shh.
And that's the first time I ever heard him use that word.
Because he's pretty, you know, sort of, you know, he tries to keep his speech elevated.
Anyway, so he says, uh oh.
Then he says, what am I going to do?
I said, you are going to do nothing.
You are going to do absolutely nothing.
Chicken Little is going to fix this herself.
And when I fix it, you better keep your mouth shut.
And I hung up on him.
And I couldn't, when I look back on it, I cannot believe that I hung up on him.
Now, interestingly enough, Brady was the guy who came back after I left the administration.
And asked me to be a governor of the Federal Reserve.
Anyway, so we hadn't burned all the bridges, but I was furious.
And so I called up Fuller and I said, Who in the cabinet hates Nick Brady?
He said, Jack Kemp.
Jack Kemp hates Brady more than you can possibly imagine.
I said, call Kemp, tell him Brady's blackballed me, but you like me, get me an interview with Jack Kemp.
Excellent.
Okay.
So, meantime, I won't go through the whole details.
That night, I have a blind date with an LBO guy who I didn't know turns out to be the best friend of Jack Kemp.
Oh.
And we got into a real squabble over business issues.
And to say that he didn't like me is an understatement.
Oh, right.
So, the next morning, I get a phone call.
His name was Teddy Forsman.
So I get a call from Jack Kemp.
I'm in my office, the phone rings, and it's Kemp.
And he says, I pick up, he says, This is Congressman Kemp.
Craig Fuller says, I have to interview you.
And it's not friendly.
And so I said in my most unctuous voice, Oh, Mr. Congressman, I would love to have the opportunity to interview with you.
And he said, Well, believe it or not, I'm over here at Teddy Forsman's office.
He says he knows you.
I thought, Oh, now I'm really in trouble.
You know, I'm from the wrong side of the party.
You know, I'm one of the Brady people.
Now I've insulted his best friend.
I am really in trouble.
And so I said, He said, so how'd you like to come over to Teddy Forsman's office to interview with me right now?
So I took a deep breath and I said, Mr. Congressman, I have to confess, I had a blind date last night with Teddy Forsman, and I thought he was one of the most attractive men I've ever met, but I don't think he was very impressed with me.
So it would be very humiliating to come to his office, but if that's what you want to get an interview with you, I'd be happy to do it.
And he knew what I was doing, and he laughed out loud.
He thought it was very clever, and he said, Fine, call my chief of staff, and I'll make an appointment, and I'll see you in Washington.
Well, he had promised the position to one other guy.
All right.
The president had promised the position to a Mitch McConnell guy, and so the position was fully already promised.
Well, the HUD scandal broke out, and it turned out that both people were compromised.
So I started down the interview track, and it was a very strange interview track.
I came into the office the first day and I was wearing.
You were ready for this interview.
That was quite beautiful, but very professional.
Right.
And so we had a good interview and he said, I'd really like you to call you back and meet with the secretary, but you need to look a lot less attractive.
Now, what does that mean?
I asked for a little clarification, but the message was I needed to be significantly more dowdy than my French Parisian suit.
And I walked in to the hairstylist and I said, Make me look like my mother.
And sure enough, she did.
We did makeup to make me look like my mother.
And I didn't look like me.
I was, you know, or at least how I looked at that time.
And I had on this very old, very sort of dowdy business suit.
And I started to walk into my office and my assistant said to me, Excuse me, this is a private office.
You can't just walk in.
I said, Pat, it's me.
She said, Oh my God, what happened to you?
That's great.
So I fly down and I. Walk into the office, and the chief of staff says, Oh, you look perfect.
Oh, that's great.
It's so strange.
So, what is going on here?
Anyway, so I go in and I interview with Kemp, and what happens is everybody's conflicted because of this HUD scandal, and they need a clean person.
So, I'm the clean compromise.
So, the chief of staff calls me and he says, We want to nominate you, but.
Persuade the president to drop the guy in Kentucky.
Okay.
The McConnell guy.
Mitch, I think, had been the first senator to come out for Bush, and so Bush was very loyal.
So he said, The only way you can do it is to get to Sununu, and no one can get to Sununu.
Can you get to Sununu?
So I, believe it or not, when Sununu first ran for senator in New Hampshire, I was one of his first donors because a partner of mine had been his chief, his campaign manager.
And he had brought Sununu into the energy group.
I was then in the oil and gas group at Dylan Reed.
And Sununu made a presentation as one of the most Impressive presentations I've ever seen in my life.
He basically said, Okay, here's all the legislation that's passing that relates to science and engineering, and here's how many lawyers we have, which is about 90%, and here's how many engineers we have, which is zero.
You need more engineers in the legislature.
And I basically wrote him a check.
That's amazing.
It's like fate that you did that.
I wrote him a check for everything that was in my account.
So I was a major donor at the time under my terms.
Anyway, so I called the guy who had been his campaign manager, a wonderful guy named Pat Cody, and Pat had gone into, I think, to run to the World Bank.
So he was head of the World Bank.
So I called Pat and I said, Pat, here's what happened.
And I explained I said, Camp wants to nominate me for Assistant Secretary of Housing, Federal Housing Commissioner, but I can't, you know, the president is McConnell's guy, and so Sununu has to engineer a turn.
And, you know, nobody can get to Sununu.
The question is, how do I get to Sununu?
You know him.
How do I get to Sununu?
And he says, Oh, it's no problem.
I'll fix it tonight.
How can you fix it tonight?
He said, Sununu's living at my house.
We have milk and cookies every night.
I'll just fix it.
So he calls me back, you know, I don't know, a couple days later and says, Okay, you know, Sununu's turned it.
And so now, you know, I can go ahead and nominate you.
So I went back to the chief of staff and we agreed that we needed Brady to run a trial balloon so he didn't.
Running a Political Trial Balloon00:04:38
The only way you prove that Brady's not going to spike it again is you make him run the trial balloon.
Okay, yes.
Got to call Nick's people.
So I call Nick's people and get a hold of Nick.
And I said, you know, I'm going to be nominated as Assistant Secretary of Housing.
He says, you can't go to HUD.
Jack Kemp is certifiably nuts, which is in fact true.
It was true.
Now, the White House used to call me and ask me if Jack had had a psychotic episode.
Oh.
You know, had I seen Jack?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When I saw the footage of the press conference, he looked incredibly fidgety.
It was like he was going to jump out of his skin.
Yeah, he was a very fidgety guy.
Anyway, so Brady says, You can't go to HUD.
You know, Kemp's nuts.
And I said, Did you leave me any choice?
Did you leave me any choice?
You blackballed me.
And he said, Well, maybe I can find you something at Treasury.
I said, It's a little late, Jim.
Nick, you know, you can either run this trial balloon or not.
You know, I need to know you're not going to spike it.
Anyway, so he put out the trial balloon, and unfortunately in the press release, it says C. Austin Fitson refers to me as a he.
Oh, that's great.
That's just excellent.
Which is interesting because if you look at my credentials, I went to Bennett College, which is an all girls school.
Oh, you're on the fast track.
Interesting how that happens.
Okay, so the trial balloon proceeds, and I'm chosen as the assistant secretary of housing, at which point I come down to Washington in April 1989.
But I have to be confirmed.
So I get called into the Chief of Staff's office and Kemp's office, and they say, Look, we don't want to waste any political bullets on getting you confirmed.
You have to get yourself confirmed.
Okay, now that was a problem.
And here's the problem the Democrats control the Senate.
And so I had to get the Democrats to confirm me when the Republicans weren't going to spend any political capital.
I'm still not, I'm at the office and I'm in the position, but I'm not really in the position.
I'm not officially appointed.
Right.
So you're heading towards confirmation.
Meantime, the FBI has been doing a background check.
It was so funny.
The FBI came to my secretary and said, I want to make an appointment to meet her.
And my secretary said, Why?
And she said, You know, I've done a lot of background checks, but this is the first time that everybody says nice things about her, even her ex husband.
Oh, that's great.
I just want to meet her.
And so this really tiny, very attractive FBI woman walks in with a gun on her hip into my office.
She's about four and a half feet tall and introduces herself.
And, you know, so I went through my FBI check anyway.
So, what had happened when the trial balloon came out?
For me as Assistant Secretary of Housing, is that no one on the Hill knew who I was.
Who's C. Austin Fitz?
We never heard of her.
You know, who is she?
Yeah.
Here's the story I was told, and I've never confirmed with one of my relatives to figure out if it's true or not.
What I was told by one of the Senate staffers is finally somebody said, you know, I know a Fitz up in the Boston area who's a legal aid housing attorney.
Maybe she knows who this Fitz person is.
So they called her and said, You know, do you know a C. Austin Fitz?
And my relative said, Yeah, yeah, I do.
She's my relative.
And they said, Is it possible she's been nominated to be Assistant Secretary of Housing?
And she said, No, it's impossible.
She knows nothing about housing, I can assure you.
And then she said, Wait, wait.
She raised a whole lot of money for Bush.
Can you just become Assistant Secretary of Housing by raising a whole bunch of money for Bush?
At which point, the Senate staff, are you ready for my new nickname?
My new nickname for the first three months I was in Washington was.
The bimbo.
Oh.
The bimbo.
Okay.
So I had to go over and persuade all of these highly partisan, pretty nice, I mean, they were wonderful guys.
I really liked them.
Democratic Senate staffers that they should confirm me.
You know, and their attitude is why should we do you a favor?
What's in it for me, honey?
And anyway, but I had had a whole lot of clients in New York.
In some of the big New York public agencies who were Democrats.
And finally, they were able to persuade enough people to take pity on me and confirm me.
Wow.
Persuading Partisan Senate Staffers00:04:18
So, in fact, that's how I got.
You really worked hard to get in there.
You have to do it all yourself.
And then what was funny is you walk in the first day and what you realize is you're running a $400 billion operation.
All right.
You're putting out $50 to $100 billion a year in mortgage insurance.
You've got a $320 billion operation plus.
Real estate all over the country, plus huge regulatory responsibilities, and nobody gives a flying damn.
Wow.
Any of it, they're just, you know, they're busy, worried about other things.
So every time the space station runs out of money, they claw money out of HUD, you know, and so, right.
And so it's, you're in reactive mode, and it's really up to you to say, okay, what's our vision?
How are we going to get there?
And to come up with a vision that will lead.
At that time, there were 7,000 people.
And, you know, it was a fascinating experience to kind of.
Do the vision thing and lead 700 or 7,000 people.
And it's a fascinating story.
And once my attorneys required me to record my complete recollections of working in the Bush administration, they're up on our website called the Chem Tapes.
Yes, I've heard some of those.
Yeah, I recorded them for the attorneys, and I thought, oh, who would want to listen to this?
I felt sort of sorry for them.
And so somebody in the office said, can I listen to those?
And I said, sure, you know, feel free.
And then it just, you know, this was before West Wing, before people really understood what was going on inside.
And they just went through.
And everybody who's dealing with mortgage fraud wanted to hear them, and they just went all over the place.
And finally, we got tired of making cassettes, so we, you know, it was at the point where you could put up audio on the internet, and we did.
But you'll hear hundreds of wild, crazy stories of, you know, all these great Kemp lines like, the law, the law, I don't have to obey the law, I report to a higher moral authority.
You get a sense for how completely nuts the neocons were.
And I seem to recall that you thought that Kemp was definitely under some kind of blackmail control.
Oh, yeah.
So the problem I had that Kemp had was he kept ordering me to break the law and I would refuse.
And one time when he ordered me to break the law, you know, I felt really sorry for him because he was clearly being blackmailed.
And that's an Andrew Cuomo story because at the end, when he wanted me to do an illegal ward of mod rehab and I refused to do it, you know, very graciously, I said, look, you know, I'll give you 100% chance.
We will be called.
We can't do that.
And, and, I flew out to the Chicago field office for a meeting, and they called in my deputies and got them to say that they would make the award.
And then apparently, the undersecretary who had squeezed them in his office called the guy who ran the New York Housing Authority and said in Italian, It's done.
And it was, my deputies told me it was for Andrew Cuomo's homeless project.
Wow.
So, the result of the squeeze, I've never seen a human being more afraid than Jack Kemp at that time.
When he, the first time he called me in his office and ordered me to do it, it was really scary because he was so terrified.
He was in a state of real sort of panic terror.
And, you know, it was right in the middle of the Franklin cover up, and I was so busy doing what I was doing, I didn't notice the Washington Times stories about the, you know, hookers at the house and all of that.
If you read the Franklin cover up, it mentions Kemp.
So, You know, who knows what he was being blackmailed.
What happened to me was I walked downstairs and my general, I had a deputy general deputy who was sort of who had careered in during Carla Hills, who was very savvy in the way of Washington.
And he came into my office and he said, Look, you have to be really, really careful about this because, you know, there's real sex issues with Kemp.
And there'd been a lot of rumors about Kemp being bisexual.
And I said, You know, Jim, that's old news.
Connecting Money to Space Secrets00:15:16
You know, nobody cares.
He said, No, no, it's not that.
It's much, much worse.
Oh boy.
And I was trying to be light and funny, and I said, You're trying to persuade me Kemp is having sex with sheep.
He said, It's much, much worse.
And he said, This is really serious.
You have to be careful.
And I knew what he was referring to, you know, but I didn't make him say, and he didn't make me say.
And I went, Uh oh, you know, this is really bad.
Fascinating.
So, yeah, that story is up on the website.
I finally, you know, sort of disgorged.
I didn't put it in the Kemp tapes, but I finally disgorged that story.
Um, And I have to say, Solari.com is just a treasure trove of finding out about deep history.
Well, here's the question.
You know, supposedly the Franklin cover up came out of the Republican side with delivering money to Cuomo.
Right.
Wow.
Good point.
And Cuomo shows up later in your story, too.
But, you know, what I always wanted to know is when did space and the idea of, like, The kind of black budget and space come into the work and the way that you were looking at things.
The first time I started to notice space, when I first got to HUD, every time the space station would get in trouble, they'd claw money out of the HUD budget.
So there seemed to be this relationship between space and HUD that was.
How does that make sense?
Yeah.
Well, they were both in.
If you look at the appropriation basket, they were in a appropriation basket together.
And so, you know.
The space station was the high priority and I was the low priority, and so the money would be bought.
But there seemed to be this unusual relationship.
And when I first started talking publicly about what's wrong and real solutions, I was very focused on how to make communities wonderful.
So I had my performance indicator of the Popsicle Index and my attitude let's re engineer the money by place, we'll have place based optimization, we'll save the taxpayers a fortune, the pension funds will get rich.
And here's where the solutions are.
They're at an intimate level.
And what I kept running into in the independent media was everybody wanted to talk about space.
And my attitude is, you know, I don't want to talk about space.
Well, of course, there was the time after the litigation started when the Navy tried to persuade me that aliens live, you know, exist among us.
So you know that story, and we've discussed that on Dark Journalists.
But I kept bumping into people trying to engage me in what's going on in space.
And it just would really frustrate me, you know, because I kept feeling, you know, everybody needs to come down to ground.
And what I didn't appreciate was, you know, the narco dollars that were destroying my neighborhood were financing Tony Serrano, who was financing James Bond, who was protecting the money for space.
Right, right.
In fact, it was all quite integrated, you know.
And if you looked at power in a community, more and more the power was running through the satellites that were, you know, surveilling that community as opposed to running through the Rosen tunnel.
That were coming in and out of the community.
So, if I needed an integrated picture of power in a community, I needed to understand that space was, in fact, a very important part of what's happening in every community.
I just needed to integrate my worldview.
You know, because you had so many smart, intelligent, a lot of engineers, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of soul practitioners, and they got it, and I didn't get it.
And it was just a matter of listening to them long enough where I realized, oh, you know, these folks understand something.
I don't understand it.
I need to understand it.
But my way of understanding things is with the money.
So I had to come at it bottom up through money and say, okay, how does the money relate to my house, my community?
What does space mean in Hickory Valley, Tennessee?
So I needed to come at it bottom up from a time and money standpoint.
And that took a long time.
And then, of course, you know, because I published in 2015 Space Here We Go, which was my effort to put together an integrated Vision of how this all fit in.
And we've just done a new one because we've been drilling down okay, what companies are doing what?
So, if all this is going on, who's doing it?
One of my favorite quotes, I don't know if you saw it in the new wrap up, Space, Who's Who and What's Up in the Space Based Economy.
I got to this fabulous luncheon in Amsterdam a couple years ago, and there was a guy who used to trade in the city of London, and he said, You know, I thought, well, how did you become a Solari Report subscriber?
And he said, You know, it was amazing.
All through the 90s, I kept thinking, How are these mining companies and elevator companies making so much money?
I just don't get it.
It's, you know, it's, I used to always think that about RJR Nabisco until it all came out thanks to the European Union.
So, mining companies and elevator companies.
Mining companies and elevator companies.
And he said, and then I listened to your Saleri report on an underground basis and I thought, oh, now my world makes sense again.
He got it.
I have one subscriber who was really deep in sort of the Texas business community and he swore all the offshore drilling that Zapata did for the bushes had nothing to do with oil.
It was all.
You know, it was all missile silos, which makes sense.
I mean, what a perfect cover!
Fascinating.
So, Zapata, if you dig in, I know one researcher who dug into all the stuff in Zapata, and you know, there's a real story there.
Oh, no, that's true.
And I suspect it has more drilling holes for missiles than it does.
And just so everyone knows, Zapata was Bush's oil company.
Right, right.
This is interesting about space, though.
Like a little diagram, so when it came together for you, let's just say this is a kind of a simplification.
Black budget.
Drug money, space.
Those things somehow had a connection.
Right.
Well, what happened was, you know, I started to be able to understand much more about space.
Yes.
Because if you, my tool, Daniel, is time and money, the mathematics of time and money.
And I feel like I can figure just about anything out on planet Earth by looking at the mathematics of time and money.
I can make sense of it, I can find the logic, I can figure out what's probably true and what's probably not.
But if you look at space, it doesn't lend itself to the mathematics of Earth.
Absolutely.
So it doesn't lend itself to the math of Earth economics, you know, because it's subject to other economics.
And so whenever I would dive into it, I would say, look, this is a full time job for me to figure out, and I just can't spend full time on space.
Right.
And you've told me that you've sought out scholars, people like Joseph Farrell, for example, to help you make sense of this very unusual area of expertise.
Feral has done great work on the hidden system of finance and how it all came out of World War II.
Exactly.
And I'm documenting that all this money is disappearing and it has to go someplace.
Where's it going?
Well, if you look at all the things they're talking about building the underground bases, the spaceships, everything else, you know, and if you just look at what hardware is, you know, flying around in the sky.
Right.
It definitely suggests a huge, massive infrastructure.
There's a symmetry between all this money that's disappearing and then all these very expensive things they're talking about happening.
Right.
Now, All that does is say, okay, there is a logic here to why we should try and connect the dots.
And so I just started down a pathway of reading their stuff and sharing what I knew with them and just seeing what dots we could connect.
And it's really been an exploration.
That's one of the reasons I think the Secret Space Program conferences were such a great contribution because they gave us a chance to really prepare information in an organized way, share it.
There's no question.
And in the secret space conferences we did, you advanced a whole new different foundation for looking at black projects in the context of your research on the missing trillions and putting those two together to come up with a secret infrastructure development in space.
Right.
So now, since then, there's a cottage industry of people who are looking at this question based on the point of view that really you developed.
I should also mention here that there were major disinformation efforts and marketing groups that tried to pirate extensive research that you've done.
And I always tell people on the Missing Trillions secret space, you know, go to the source.
Your understanding around covert operations makes the real difference with real facts.
Right.
And I think one of the reasons it's helped is if you look at all the descriptions of covert operations from Area 51 to underground bases to, you know, what may be going on in the sky, you know, now there's a logic for why would the Department of Defense disappear so much money?
Now, we don't know how much money they've disappeared, but.
We know that they have absolutely refused to obey the financial management laws consistently for a long period of time.
And every indication is that something is deeply different than what is being appropriated by Congress.
Right.
So, and if you understand all of these different operations, things start to make a lot more sense.
Right.
Legitimately authorized intelligent members of the military might do that.
Right.
Yeah, well, it's fascinating because one of the things you pointed out was that during Iran Contra, when all the money was disappearing, there were these reports that came up where Reagan was getting these reports about things that were going around in space that we didn't have a handle on.
And you kind of put those two together at some point, those two data points, and said, uh huh.
What they saw on Voyager scared them to death.
And that's when the financial fraud just went nuts.
Yeah.
Because the thing to understand when you go back and you look at the history of financial fraud is how many legitimate people went along and indicated that there was no other choice.
In other words, to bust through all those financial controls, you can't just bust through all those financial controls with sex slaves and control files and pedophilia and.
You know, terrorizing people.
That can cut through a lot, but it can't cut through.
You know, somebody somewhere has to believe that they're doing a legitimate purpose, a strategic purpose.
Whether, you know, and if you look at the coup, you know, I will tell you that the leadership after the 1995 budget debacle, you know, there were leaders who thought, okay, democracy doesn't work.
We're going to move the money out and, you know, just re engineer on the just do it method.
Now, I don't think those people were.
I want more money for my offshore palatial estate and my Ferraris.
No, I think they were saying, look, it doesn't work.
We're going to re engineer the government on a just do it method.
We're going to have a financial coup.
And so they weren't doing it out of greed.
They were doing it because they believed that was the best thing to do.
Right.
And it's fascinating because one of those people, even involved with that whole end of it, the Iran Contra end, Oliver North, He said something interesting, which is that he had a reference for HUD, which is he called it the candy store for black ops.
So there's that HUD space thing again.
Right.
Well, what I was told he said was that HUD is the candy store of covert revenues.
And if you look at what I cleaned up, it was clearly, you know, everything I cleaned up as assistant secretary or dealt with and the corruption I dealt with, you know, you should have seen.
I brought in a whole group of senior accounting partners from one of the top accounting firms in the country and told them that I was going to put together accurate databases on our multifamily apartment.
I watched, you know, four accounting partners, they almost peed on the floor.
They were so, because they couldn't tell me.
You can't do that.
And they said, oh, we'll just do a random sample.
I said, no, to run a $25 billion portfolio of multifamily mortgage insurance, I need accurate data on each property.
And they kept trying to come up with a reason why I shouldn't and couldn't do that.
Wow.
But they couldn't.
And they were scared to death because they knew.
And of course, then I'm out.
Right, right.
It dawned on them that you weren't going to go along with it.
And it's so fascinating that when you were doing this legitimate approach at HUD, You know, going through the details, you run into this covert thing, this immovable force.
And I'm reminded of Jim Garrison, the New Orleans DA, when he investigates the JFK assassination, and he runs into aerospace, and he runs into covert groups, and he runs into CIA operators.
You know, there's a real deep state operating there in the sense that Professor Peter Dale Scott described.
So I want to tie this in with something you included in the Space Economy Report and in the Pension Funds Report before that.
It ties together a lot and it fundamentally changed your understanding of the whole situation.
And it's the CalPERS story.
Can you share that with us here?
Rich, CalPERS story has always changed my view of how the world works.
Absolutely.
It's crucial.
So I tell the story in the pension fund.
Yes.
And Daniel, the web presentation is up at pension.solari.com.
So when the site went.
And we made it available publicly.
And also, if you look at the discussion of the pension funds, it's something that should be public.
You know, it's really a very serious conversation that affects all of us.
So I felt a need to make that public.
But what happened was I had a board on one of my subsidiaries that included some of the top pension fund leaders in the country, including the president of CalPERS, who I thought was a wonderful man.
And I had been working with our relational database operation.
To simulate government investment by place and figure out how you could re engineer government investment to really, it was kind of the make America great again plan.
Public Disclosure of Pension Funds00:06:24
And I really felt with new technology, you could end poverty.
There was no reason for poverty, and that meant you could end government subsidies into these neighborhoods.
And I brought forward the presentation.
We were meeting outside of Philadelphia, and I had a simulation of the Philadelphia economy.
Basically, what I was able to do was the current government spending was being spent to make people stupider.
You know, you were using government money to lower the.
Learning metabolism and the performance incentives in place, and there was a way to change it.
We had built a data servicing company where we were teleporting data servicing into a low income neighborhood.
We had given people courses in data servicing and were able to document the speeds at which they could learn and become highly productive taxpayers.
So, if you look at the speed at which the working population that needed to be able to work near their residences, you know, what performance you could get, we were able to document and prove there was no need for.
You know, you literally could end poverty.
Now, the problem was if we hired somebody and paid them $10 an hour plus healthcare to do data servicing for us, then they weren't going to deal drugs.
And you went smack into what I call the space tax.
The space tax, you know, the drugs and the mortgage fraud were the space tax, and we were competing with people for, you know, with the space tax.
So we made this presentation, and what I was able to show was that if you could significantly improve the health And well being, what I call the popsicle index in a community, you could get tremendous improvement on small business equity and on real estate in a way that could make a fortune for the pension funds.
And that was one of our big issues.
How did the pension funds make their investment targets?
So we were very interested in how to do that.
And the president of CalPERS looked at me.
He'd worked for Saul Alinsky as a young man.
And he said, You don't understand.
This is Saul Alinsky's model.
And he failed.
They stopped him.
And I said, Yeah, but they didn't have the internet.
They couldn't get.
The learning metabolism is high enough.
Now he was right and I was wrong.
And he looked at me and he froze and he said, You don't understand.
It's too late.
They've given up on the country.
They're moving all the money out starting in the fall.
And the fall was October 1, 1997, was the beginning of the 1998 fiscal year when the money started to go missing.
I thought he meant Daniel.
I just assumed he meant, Oh, we're changing our allocations and we're shifting much more equity into the, or much more of our capital.
Legally into the emerging markets.
Like Asia, for example.
Right.
We think that's a better opportunity and we have to go where we get the most returns, which I completely agree with them.
Now, what I realize is no, what we meant was $20 trillion was going to be disappeared from the federal government and the pension funds were going to finance it by buying treasuries.
So here's what I explain in the annual wrap up.
And again, go to pension.solari.com and read the state of our pension funds.
The pension funds.
By $5 trillion of treasury.
The money goes into the treasury and out the back door.
And what the pension funds get is an IOU from essentially their beneficiaries.
So they're not getting back an asset, they're getting back a liability.
So the pension fund beneficiaries, who as taxpayers now owe the money back on the treasury, but that $5 trillion is no longer in treasury.
It's, you know, often mystery land.
If you look at this from the highest portfolio strategy level, The U.S. government is simply a laundry mechanism to take real money out of pension funds and move it into private hands as a gift.
Right.
Right.
I mean, it's fascinating because I think the simple way people can understand it, if you think of history, which is that, you know, it's interesting because the Kennedys tried to break what Jimmy Hoffa was doing with the Teamsters pension fund because they saw that the mafia would take the money that was in the pension fund and use it for money laundering.
Buying drugs and doing all this stuff.
And they figured out, you know what we should do?
If we can crack that, we can basically starve all these mafia bosses of all this money.
So it's like a weird snapshot in history, but it's the same principle, basically.
Well, here's the thing.
And I think, you know, the day after I finished that article, because it was online, the day after was when our site went down for a month under very serious suspicions.
We had to bring a new site up.
And there's been constant.
Sort of interference and problems ever, you know, I've got to work treadmill ever since that went up.
And I think it's because, you know, people say to me, we can't get back the missing money.
Wrong, we can.
All you need is for 25 pension fund trustees with treasuries all around the world to say, okay, disclosure.
You know, this is a violation of the securities law to sell us securities and not disclose some material omission.
You know, what's up?
And should we keep buying treasuries?
And what's the deal here?
So, all you need is for a completely out of control group of pension fund trustees and sovereign wealth trustees all over the world to say, you know, something?
We're concerned.
We don't want to spend money buying paper.
When that money's disappearing out the back door, where's the money?
That's our money.
That's collateral on our debt.
That spaceship, that underground base, that's our collateral.
You need to bring that back on balance sheet.
Fascinating.
Well, that's real disclosure, not this TTSA CIA junk.
Right.
Catherine, this has been just great, and don't move because we're going to go even deeper in part two.
Picking up right where you left off there with the black budget infrastructure in space.
The site is Solari.com, and this is an amazing report on the space economy.
We're going to do part two and then part three for subscribers now, and this is nice.
Real Disclosure and Future Deep Dives00:00:30
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Just incredible information from Catherine Austin Fitz, who is always Many steps ahead of the headlines, as we know, and when you get her Solari reports, you'll see why.
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