Grant Cameron and Daniel Liszt dissect the Nixon administration's 1975 "Nixon's Pyramid" radar complex shutdown, linking it to the suppressed "Eminager" documentary commissioned by H.R. Haldeman. They analyze the "dangling carrot" strategy used against researchers like Linda Moulton Howe and the alleged MJ-12 leak orchestrated to control narratives. The discussion extends to consciousness-based phenomena, citing 78% telepathic communication rates among 4,000 experiencers and Dick Cheney's hesitant classification stance. Ultimately, they argue that full disclosure remains stalled by a cultural clash between capitalist values and non-material alien philosophies, with governments manipulating releases to maintain plausible deniability. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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UFOs Over Missile Silos00:14:05
And we are live.
Hi, everyone.
It's Dark Journalists.
And we have a great show for you tonight because we're going to go deep into some aspects of unanswered questions around this whole period of the Nixon disclosure effort taking place in the early 70s.
Now, last night we did Coast to Coast and we did our live broadcast here about Robert Merritt and his time capsule story, putting that on the record.
Now, that is very significant, but unless we understand the context of what was going on, In relation to this period and the efforts at disclosure and what Nixon may have had in mind and what they may have been doing in making this documentary that came out a few years later, then we kind of get the whole picture a little bit better.
So we're going to work that in.
We have a very special guest with us, which is Grant Cameron.
And Grant, it's great to see you.
Good to see you, Daniel.
Thanks for having me on.
Fantastic.
I've been following your stuff, of course, on the disclosure front.
We had you on last month.
That was an excellent episode, and I think we all got a lot of answers because you've been so on top of what's going on with the current disclosure efforts that it's pretty remarkable.
And we can see that so many of those, as you predicted, and as I did some reports on, a lot of the things around the two the stars disclosure just came apart at the seams, and we still see a lot of strange maneuvering going on and not a whole lot of answers or a whole lot of new releases.
And so I want to get into that also, but I want to start right off the bat.
With what we were just talking about, which is something called Nixon's Pyramid.
I'm going to show this to everyone, which is a complex that they put up in the 70s as a kind of anti ballistic missile site in North Dakota.
And they call it Nixon's Pyramid because he was the guy who was in office when it got put up there.
And apparently it helped create the conditions for the SALT I and SALT II treaties.
But if you can just give us some idea, Grant, of what it was and the strange activity around it.
Well, the way it started is I had some sightings in 1975 on the Canadian side of the border.
I lived just north of that site, and that was in Cool's Route, North Dakota.
And we couldn't understand why we were having the sightings.
We had sightings that went on from about February of 1975 till late 1975, and then a little bit into 1976, and then it just went away.
There were no sightings.
Suddenly, this object was being seen almost every night and then just went away.
And nobody has seen anything in that town since.
And it was 30 years later when I was lecturing on it, I went to talk to the guy who ran the airport at Carmen where all these sightings had taken place.
And I said to him, Bob, I said, why were the sightings here?
Like, why do you think they came to Carmen?
Because there's nothing here.
And he said, I told you in 75 why they were here.
And I said, Well, no, I don't remember.
He said, I told you, you know exactly why they were here.
And I said, Bob, it's been 30 years.
I have no idea why the UFOs were here.
And he said, The missiles.
The missiles in North Dakota.
And as soon as he said that, I knew what he was talking about because we had all traveled through North Dakota and we knew that North Dakota, it was said that if North Dakota had been a country, it would have been a nuclear superpower.
It had 300 silos, Minuteman III missile silos.
And in 1975, they were going to build three units.
One was at Maelstrom, one was the North Dakota site, and then there was one in the east that they were going to build.
The only one that actually got built was in North Dakota.
So, what they set up was the Nixon's pyramid, which was the big, it looked like an actual pyramid with the top cut off.
And it was the radar that would pick up the Russian missiles.
So, what they had is they had put in another 100 nuclear missiles.
So, some of them had five megaton warheads on them.
And what they were trying to do before Star Wars, like in Star Wars, you would have these things in outer space to try to shoot down the Russian missiles.
So, what they would do is they would, this radar establishment inside the pyramid would pick up the Russian missile coming over the North Pole.
And then they would shoot up these five, the idea was to shoot up these five megaton.
Nuclear missiles and destroy the Russian missiles in outer space.
And if they missed, then they had these very sprint missiles with one megaton missile on them.
And they would try to shoot them as they were coming down into the missiles.
Because the idea was that the missiles were the number one target of the Soviets.
The idea was that if you don't take out the missiles in North Dakota and Montana and South Dakota, you weren't going to see what happened to Washington.
So that was the number one target.
So, what happened is in 1975, they went operational with these 100 new nuclear missiles in February of 1975.
That's when the sightings started on our side of the border.
In November, they had an agreement with the Russians to shut the establishment down.
That's when the sightings basically stopped and went away and never came back.
So, that was the whole deal in North Dakota.
And it was about 80 miles as the crow flies from where the very high point of the sightings were.
And I actually had the same.
Guy who ran the airport, Bob Deemer, had told me, he said, I told you, don't you remember?
I told you I had the meeting with the Air Force guy on the border in a bar at the border.
And this guy had said that they actually at one point had a UFO over top of one of the missile silos and they'd been ordered to ram it.
And that they had these four jets and he had pulled out of the formation and the UFO had come up where he had pulled out.
He said it wasn't worth his life.
And he said, I told you.
And when he mentioned that, I did remember him telling me that back in 1975, this story about them actually getting one over a missile silo.
And I was actually called down to North Dakota in 1976.
We had these objects on the ground that people would now describe as orbs.
We called them ground lights.
We had them all over the ground and we were filming them.
I had infrared film.
We'd be there almost every night trying to film these things.
They were very responsive, but very smart.
They always knew not only what you were doing, but what you were about to do.
And we couldn't get around these things.
I got close the very first night.
I was about maybe 50 feet away the first night from one of these objects, maybe two, two and a half, three feet across.
Orb type object.
And these things started to appear in 1976.
And so in 1976, I was called down to North Dakota to the Minot Field, where the Minot Nuclear Air Force Base was.
And that's where a lot of the missiles were in the Minot Field.
There was a town there that was being inundated by these same objects all over the ground.
They were following cars, stuff like that.
So that tied in, again, the fact that nuclear missiles had a very close connection to the Phenomena of UFOs.
The last thing that happened is I had a girl, and this would go to 1988, we move on.
And this was at Cools Root, North Dakota.
And what they used to do, she told me the story there were three girls.
I only interviewed her at length with her husband or their boyfriend at the time.
And I actually went to the missile silo, which is still operational, Minuteman 3 missile silo.
And she described the fact that in the town, it was a small town of maybe a couple hundred people, what the kids would do in the town is they would go to the missile silo, which was about a mile.
Maybe a half a mile north of the town.
They would throw stones at the fence.
They would try to get the light to go on.
There was a big, sort of a big pole with a white light on the, a yellow light on the top.
And they would try to get the light to go on, and then they would run as fast as they could back to town.
And that's what they did for entertainment.
And the one time they went there, and there were three girls, and she describes this UFO coming out of the missile silo.
And I said, Well, we were standing at the fence, we're taking pictures.
And I said, Well, where exactly did this thing come out?
And she said, It came out of that metal thing over there.
I said, Are you sure it came right out of the metal thing?
Yep, came right out of the metal thing.
She described it as being, I can't remember how many feet across.
It was fairly small, maybe five, six feet across.
Copper shaped, uh, copper colored like a ball, it was spinning at a very high speed.
Um, she wet her pants, the other girls went running back, and they had seen this object, it was about 25 feet above the missile silo, and then it just flew off.
So, that's basically how I started this very bizarre connection to nuclear missiles.
And if you remember back in 1975, and this is a story that I have told only a couple of times, um, there was a guy who Richard Doty referred to as the DIA Falcon.
He was a guy at Offutt Air Force Base, who was the guy who I believe phoned Bill Moore.
Bill Moore got two phone calls as he started.
One was from Albuquerque, New Mexico.
He'd gone on the book tour for the book, The Roswell Incident.
So he gets this phone call, and the guy says from Albuquerque, who might have been Richard Doty, said, You're the only guy who knows what you're talking about.
And he sort of agreed.
And then he further toured across the country, and he got this second phone call from Offutt Air Force Base.
And what I believe it was this.
Um, guy by name Evans, uh, Major Evans, who was Richard Doty's DIA man in Washington, he was with the Defense Intelligence Agency and he'd moved to Offutt Air Force Base in about 1978 79.
Uh, Bob Pratt had interviewed him, and I remember because Bob Pratt of National Enquirer had come up to Manitoba where we had the sightings, he'd come up actually twice because there was just so many sightings that we're going to call it the UFO capital of the world.
He came up, and I remember him telling me about the fact that they had these documents, they'd gotten these documents, and I remember.
They had filed the FOA and it was like $850 to get the documents.
And I went, Whoa.
And he said, Oh, yeah, we're going to pay it.
No problem.
We'll pay the fee.
And these were the documents, the famous NORAD documents that describe in 1975 along the Canadian US border where all the nuclear missiles were stored.
So it was Loring Air Force Base.
There was Wordsmith Air Force Base on the Michigan Canadian border.
There was Minot Air Force Base, which is south of us, where I went to see these small objects on the ground.
And the other was Malmstrom.
And there were these reports in late 1975, exactly when Travis Walton was abducted, where UFOs were inside the weapon storage area, inside where they stored the nuclear weapons.
So I knew right from 1975 that there was this connection, a very close connection to nuclear weapons and UFOs.
And you see it go on with Benowitz.
That's how Benowitz's story started.
Benowitz was describing UFOs over the Manzano weapon storage area.
And that was the biggest repository for nuclear weapons in the world.
That's fascinating.
And I want to actually.
Get into how the nuclear weapons aspects fit in here.
I'm curious in relation to the Nixon pyramid, though, this is the actual structure.
Okay.
It's still there.
That's fascinating that it's still there.
Why?
Is there ever any explanation for why it's a pyramid?
No.
No.
I just, in researching it, I only started to research it maybe six or seven years ago because that's when I discovered that this, until then, I didn't even know that they had built this thing in 1975.
And so when I went down there, it's not operational anymore.
They took all the missiles out in 75.
And the pyramid is still there.
It was actually sold.
I can't remember what they spent.
I think they sold it for a couple million dollars, the whole property.
It was just recently sold.
But there was that radar establishment, and then there was another one just on the Canadian border.
But these were these radars that were trying to pick up the Russian missiles as they were inbound.
Wow.
It's interesting, too, because when we think about this, there's something about this UFO presence around nuclear bases, and it's been going on.
Since very early era.
I guess it's Robert Salas that really tracks that closely.
You've been looking at these cases for years.
What do you think?
What are the UFOs doing around the nuclear weapon sites, including Rendlesham?
That's also another nuclear case.
Yeah, that was where they had the forward based nuclear weapons that were illegal, that they had said there was no nuclear weapons on the UK territory.
It is a key thing.
I mean, that's when the modern UFO era starts when we detonate the atomic bomb.
And the guy who ran the Canadian government UFO program.
From 1950 to 1954, Wilbert Smith, who ran the Project Magnet, which was the Canadian government flying saucer program, was a contactee.
And we kept this secret for many, many years that he was actually in contact with aliens.
And he had been told by the being that he was dealing with, whose name was AFA.
And this was actually the same alien that the CIA channeled in 1959 at the National Photographic Interpretation Center.
It was exactly the same alien.
Wow.
So he said that he had been told by AFA that.
The only time they would ever step in is if there was a nuclear exchange and that they could stop a nuclear exchange.
And I think what he told Walt Andrus from MUFON, Walt Andrus told me this story many, many years ago, that Wilbur told him that AFA had said, if there's a nuclear exchange, we can stop it.
And people may not believe that, but in order to prove that we could stop it, we could actually take the moon in front of the entire world, split it in half, and put it back together again to prove that we could do this.
We have the power to stop a nuclear exchange.
Other than a nuclear exchange, according to what Wilbur said, Had said to Walt Andrus, they will do nothing.
Aliens Can Stop Nuclear War00:02:55
They will allow us to stew on our own juices.
But the nuclear weapon thing is always so, right in from the word go, the Canadians were describing the fact that nuclear weapons, and Wilbur had written quite a bit about this.
He said, the nuclear weapon thing, people sort of get the idea that you have the above ground effects, but you also have an effect of the nuclear weapon going down through the earth.
And he talked about what he called areas of reduced binding.
And he claimed that there were aircraft plane crashes that were taking place because of this reduced binding.
He'd actually built a thing called the binding meter, where he could detect these areas on the other side of the earth from nuclear detonations where planes would be flying through and they would actually just sort of fall apart because the binding forces that held the plane together were affected by these nuclear weapons.
So, Wilber Smith actually wrote quite a bit about.
The dangers of nuclear weapons.
And this is in the early days, the same as all the early contactees all appear.
For example, the first contactees, Adamski and Williamson, appeared about a week after the detonation of the hydrogen bomb.
So that's when all this sort of stuff started.
And now we know more and more with the books that have been written on nuclear weapons and the stories about the Russians and stuff like that.
We now know this connection that they seem to be very much.
Disturbed by the environmental thing and by the nuclear weapon stuff.
That seems to be, if you talk to the experiencers, they keep getting these messages that they're very concerned about these two elements of the way we treat the world.
Absolutely.
And it is fascinating.
That's a continual pattern that we see.
I know John Mack got into that quite a bit, and most of his contactees had seen these visions of environmental disaster.
When we get into the response aspect, and we look at somebody like President Nixon, who was deep in there in the 1950s in these programs, there's a whistleblower that came out through Linda Moulton Howe named Cooper who describes Nixon's involvement in 1958 monitoring the situation that was going on in the kind of Area 51.
Style redevelopment stuff.
Now, when Nixon gets into office and we have these kind of interesting things that have happened, you know, UFOs showing up at nuclear bases, they obviously had some sort of national security interest around this.
Now, we've been following this story of Robert Merritt, which we broke here two weeks ago.
And he's somebody who worked for the Houston plan and worked for President Nixon doing these various things.
But Nixon had told him about a time capsule that he'd put away, this message to the American people that.
Had something to do with his work around the UFO file and the ET part.
The Robert Friend Documentary00:14:37
So, what I'm trying to do is there's a great thread in your work about the Emmenager documentary and that stage of the early disclosure.
It's almost like the first phase of real disclosure in the early 70s.
Can you tell us how that project started and what Emmenager's role was and how the Nixon administration and the Republican establishment got involved with it?
Okay, I described the Eminager story that you're referring to as the top disclosure story in ufology.
I was actually in contact with Eric Davis, who's the chief scientist for Hell Put Off, recently over the To the Stars situation.
And he had said that it was the first disclosure effort, that this is the second disclosure effort, the To the Stars thing.
Okay.
So I said to him, I said, well, does Hell agree with that?
And he said, Yeah, Hell agrees with that.
That the Eminager thing was the first effort.
I believe there were three efforts.
But anyway, the first one was.
Hell was involved with that first one, too, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, they came to me because of the Holloman Air Force Base film.
Right.
The story centers around the fact that Bob Eminager and Alan Sandler, who's actually the intelligence guy.
So, Bob is the worker guy.
He writes the music for the documentaries, he does the interviews, he runs around.
And it's, but it's actually Alan Sandler who's never really gone on record, never really done any interviews.
That's actually the intelligence guy that sets this whole thing up.
The way it was told to me, and Bob, the last time I talked to him, and I've talked to him a number of times about this because he lives just outside of Eureka Springs, Arkansas, and I go down to that conference quite a bit.
I used to lecture there every year.
And so I would talk to him and stay at his house and stuff.
And at one point, I'm sure he told me that the reason that they got the job was that the defense.
Um, the person that did the documentaries, their company had messed up something with the Pentagon Papers and that they had left them and they had come to Bob and Alan Sandler.
And so, the way the story starts is Bob says, We get this call, and they what it's the Vietnam War time, and they're told to come to Norton Air Force Base in California, and this is where the DAVA is, where they kept all the military film.
They come there and they meet with Paul Chartle, who's the security manager at the base.
And Paul Chartle says, We want you to do some documentaries for the US military.
We want to present a better light to the U.S. military for the people.
And the documentaries that they sort of looked at doing, which apparently they did, they were a documentary on 3D holography, working with dolphins, working with dogs, computers, these sort of documentaries.
And I think they were asked to do eight documentaries.
And let's say 1971.
I think it's a little bit later.
The exact date is 72, somewhere.
I think it was 72.
And I think the documentary finally came out in 75.
Okay, but it's in that time period, and um, so um, it's at that point that Paul Shardle says, Um, and we also want you to do this other documentary on UFOs, and we want you to hide it under the other eight documentaries.
And it was that point that Bob said, What you mean this is for real?
And he has a total skeptic, and he's still basically a total skeptic because his wife is it was my name is Margaret, and she's really sharp.
I mean, she knows everything about UFOs, she reads about UFOs and stuff like this.
And sometimes when I'd be at the house, uh, I'd be but Bob would get skeptical about something happening in ufology, and then she would say, You know, be quiet, what do you know?
You don't read anything, you don't know.
And she's sort of the expert.
And he said, In his interest, is sit there and watch the comedy channel, he's no interest in UFOs.
He's not a guy, yeah.
When he got this thing in the 70s, when they said this UFO thing is real, he said, You mean it's for real?
And all he could think about, as he told me, was how many times he told Margaret, Quit reading that stupid UFO, the alien had my baby, that's a bunch of garbage.
And suddenly this guy's telling him this stuff's for real.
And that's when Paul Chartle says, Yes, it's for real.
What would you think if I told you that we'd actually filmed an alien landing at Holloman Air Force Base, a craft landing at Holloman Air Force Base from a number of different angles?
And then Bob was just sort of floored.
And so what the offer was that we would give you the documentary, we'd give you the film for the documentary.
Now, this had happened many times before, it happened to Walt Disney.
In 1956, I believe Disney had exactly the same offer.
He was going to be given films and all this kind of stuff.
And that was pulled back.
But Bob went ahead with the documentary.
And the way he describes it in terms of ufology, he said, you know, basically to him, everything is, it's all garbage.
Everybody's making up stuff.
And I know it's for real.
We got to go everywhere.
And he would describe the fact that anybody they wanted to talk to, they could talk to.
They talked to Robert Friend, who was the Blue Book.
Guy to talk to Arthur Lundahl.
Arthur Lundahl was the guy who ran the Weird Dest before Kit Green, before Ron Pandolfi.
It was Arthur Lundahl.
And that Arthur Lundahl had actually dropped this story the story about channeling the alien in July of 1959 at the National Photographic Interpretation Center, which was this very top secret CIA building in Washington where they analyzed all the U 2, the SR 71, the spy photographs.
That's where it was all done.
And that they had this Navy intelligence guy.
Who had actually dealt with a contactee in Maine who was in contact with this alien by the name of AFA?
She had taught him how to channel.
Right.
What's that?
That's a woman named Swan that they go to.
Yeah, Francis Swan.
And so this Navy intelligence guy had been taught how to do this.
And of course, he went running back.
He was Navy intelligence working for the CIA.
They went back to Arthur Lundahl and he said, She taught me how to do this.
She taught me how to channel.
And Art Lundahl is telling Bob this whole story.
And he actually takes Bob to the site.
And if you look at the documentary, it was called UFOs Past, Present, and Future.
I think it was first released in 1976, 75.
It was released in 1976.
And then in 1979, they redid it with Rod Serling narrating.
And then it was called UFOs That Has Begun.
So if people want to see it, it's actually on the internet.
You can watch it on YouTube.
It's called UFOs That Has Begun, the 1979 version.
And on there, you can see Robert Friend actually telling this story.
They're in the room where this actually happens.
And Robert Friend is telling the story.
He's working for Blue Beck at the time.
He gets this phone call from Arthur Lundahl and says, You can't believe what happened.
You've got to get down here.
Top secret, rice down here, gets on a plane, he flies down, and they put this guy back under sort of like a channeling trance where he's interacting with this being the second time.
So, Robert Friend actually tells the whole story on this documentary that Bob does.
Doesn't he actually say that when he's in that state, they ask him, Can you show us your craft?
Go to the window, and the craft shows up.
The craft flies by the window.
And that's when Arthur Lundahl contacted Friend at Blue Book and said, You got to come down here.
Right away, and he flies down.
They put this guy back under, and that's when they say, We want you to appear again.
And he said, The time isn't right.
So it doesn't happen the second time.
But the document is actually there's a handwritten document.
It's kind of a weird story.
The story that I was told, and I was given the document by Jacques Valet.
Once I put the story out, Jacques Valet contacted me and said, Okay, you got the story.
Here's the document.
Now, the document was a handwritten document.
It's 11 pages long.
And it's supposedly the story I was told.
It was sitting on Robert Friend's desk.
And J. Allen Hynek had seen it.
And J. Allen Hynek realized that this was a CIA memo, realized this was important, and he had actually handwritten the document out on paper.
And this is the document I got.
So, this is this plausible deniability.
It's not the CIA memo, but it mentions the CIA people.
I think there are eight CIA agents who are in this second meeting.
When Robert Friend is brought down there, all these CIA people are mentioned.
It tells the whole story.
So, when this is told to Bob Emmenager as part of this documentary, He asked Arthur Lundahl.
Arthur Lundahl's telling the story.
Arthur takes him to Washington.
He said, Can you go on camera?
And Arthur said, No, I can't go on camera.
Don't you understand?
And he said, What do you mean?
He said, I'm on the job.
I can't go on camera.
And that's why they put Robert Friend.
So Bob does this whole documentary.
He goes to the Pentagon to, and the way he describes it, the Pentagon, they have unlimited access.
They actually describe the fact that they walk in the Pentagon, they don't sign in.
They're actually able to walk right into the Pentagon.
Now, this is pre 9 11, before the.
All the heavy security, but this is what they said.
And the story he described is they got into the Pentagon and they sat down.
And the, I guess, the information people, before they went up to the E ring to meet with Colonel Coleman, said, You know, this is causing us a lot of trouble.
You guys got to stop doing this.
Every time you do these kind of stupid documentaries, the phone comes off the hook.
And then Sandler goes, What are you talking about?
You're the guys that invited us here.
I mean, what are you giving?
And then they sort of quieted down and they went up.
And that was when, The way that Bob described to me, it was an actual contract.
They had an actual contract.
It was no different than any other documentary they'd ever done.
And they were sent to Colonel Weinbrenner at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
And it was there where they were talking to him.
And he made.
This is interesting because he is the head, as I understand it, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he the head of the Foreign Technology Office, which is something that Corso was in before he got there?
And of course, Corso came out with all those stories later.
Yeah, well, Corso was with the Army, but Weinbrenner was with the Defense Department.
So he's like the head guy.
And Bob tells this very bizarre story how he leans against Weinbrenner's desk and he said, So, you know, what's really going on?
And he goes to the blackboard and he starts drawing on the blackboard about the MiG 23 and the Russians and everything we're doing.
And we got to keep it quiet.
And he was sort of talking as if there was a mic in the room or something.
It was a very, Emmenager said it was very, very bizarre.
Like he was trying to get across the idea.
And then he picked up Jalen Heineck's book and he hands it to Bob Emmenager and he opens it up.
And inside it's Jalen Heineck's system, my good friend.
General Weinbrenner, J. Allen Hynek.
And he's basically given the hint, I can't talk about this.
And so Bob would tell these very bizarre stories of how he was able to go everywhere.
For example, when he went to do the Holloman Air Force Base story, he phoned up Holloman Air Force Base because they wanted to go film where they had actually filmed this UFO landing.
And the head guy at Holloman Air Force Base said, You want to do what?
Are you crazy?
Do you realize it's a top secret base?
You're crazy, you're not going anywhere.
And there was a guy by the name of Major Verona who was their sort of liaison guy in the Pentagon.
So they told Verona, they said, They told us to get lost.
They said, You're not letting this on the base.
He said, Give me 10 minutes, come back.
He comes back in 10 minutes.
He phones up the guy, says, You want to come?
Come on down.
And Bob said, They went down, they were on the Haldeman base.
They were given a car with a lieutenant, and the guy drove them around.
They would go anywhere they wanted.
And Bob was telling the story, they had actually put this craft in a hangar.
So, all the details, Bob had been given all the details, 6 o'clock in the morning.
I think there was a helicopter and three places on the ground where they were filming, exactly which hangar it was, on what part of the base.
So, they go to the hangar and they actually take a crowbar and they open up the door of this hangar.
So, Bob said they had this sort of unlimited ability to walk around and do all this kind of stuff.
So, the end of the story is Bob, they get all this material together, and it's at the very end, they're about to put in the Holloman Air Force Base.
They've got the film.
And Bob claims he didn't see it.
So he said, I only saw storyboard drawings of the thing.
I never really looked at it, or except to look up at the film at this thing.
And at the very end, they get the phone call from Coleman at the Pentagon and said, It's the Watergate.
The time isn't right.
We have to pull a film.
You can't have the film.
So it's exactly what happened to.
Wait, who was it who called him and said that?
Coleman.
Okay.
Coleman said, We have to pull a film.
And so Bob tells a story.
Of these very heavy set couple, and they're in a small Datsun, and they have to go from California, from Los Angeles, where they're doing the filming, and they have to drive all the way back to the Pentagon with this film.
And they take the film back and they have to storyboard, so they have to sort of make it up.
So if you see her here, Rod Serling, he said, This is an incident that may have happened in the past or may happen in the future, and they sort of have to sort of make it up.
But what happens is, They put this into the documentary, and you see they make this thing where they've got the guy talking and he's saying, Identify yourself.
You can, and the radar thing is going around, and all of a sudden, this object appears on the screen.
And so, they run the documentary, and it's years later that I learn that it's actually Haldeman film.
That's actually eight seconds, eight seconds, okay, eight seconds of the film.
And that's when I phoned Bob up and I said, Bob, you told me they took the film back, and he said, Well, I did.
And he tells me the whole story about these people in the canisters in the backseat and taking it back to the Pentagon.
I said, But Bob.
There's eight seconds of film in the documentary, and he said, Well, yeah.
And I said, But you said they took it back, so why is there eight seconds of film in the documentary?
And he said, Well, it was just background.
And I said, What do you mean it's background?
And he said, Well, it didn't show anything.
Haldeman's Gray Films Controversy00:13:05
And that's true.
If you look at the documentary, you can see clearly the eight seconds because it sort of breaks and you can see.
And what it does is it shows an object coming over the hill, but you don't see the actual aliens.
When the beings get out, that's classified material.
And the actual shape of the craft as it lands up close, that's classified.
But just to show the object, it's almost like the films that the two stars have shown.
Okay, it's an object, but it really doesn't, you know, it's not up close.
There's no aliens.
It's sort of like it's not really class five material.
You can sort of release that kind of stuff.
So that's basically what happened.
So they let's take a look just briefly at this because I got some snaps from it.
That is Emin Eger and that is his documentary, UFOs.
He also does a book as well.
Okay.
That sells, I think, a million copies.
Right.
And it re released, they re released it, of course, and it had Rod Sterling had died by then, but they put in Jacques Valet and it.
It is interesting.
They actually do some of the first cattle mutilation stuff.
I watched both versions.
This is what I want to ask you actually.
This is what they have as a civilian that comes out to meet the military person.
There's a little bit of a controversy about this.
And you actually, I got this from one of your lectures.
Let me see if I can find it here.
It's this comparison shot, which I think is really good for us to take a look at.
Yeah.
So these are depictions from this Sumerian in.
In this British History Museum, but they're also used as these aliens in the book.
So, can you tell me about that?
Yeah.
Well, that was brought up by Michael Luckman, who wrote the book Alien Rock.
And I knew him fairly well.
And he suddenly phoned me up one day and he said, They faked the whole thing.
They faked it.
I said, What do you mean they faked it?
So, he sent me the photograph of the statue in the British Museum and Eminagers.
Alien that had been appeared in the book and it appeared in the documentary, and it did look very close and it was kind of a weird sort of thing.
So I phoned up Bob and I said, Well, Bob, what is this?
And I saw the correspondence between him and Sandler, and Sandler was really upset that they had made this claim.
So I asked Bob, I said, Well, you know, why would it look so close?
And that's when he said to me, He said, and this made sense, it was almost like the film with the UFO coming over the hill.
He said, I never saw the film.
And the film was done by, he actually named the guy.
It was a police artist that they had.
And that Paul Shardle had sat down.
And Paul Shardle was the guy that had originally seen the film.
He's the one that went on UFO cover up live in 1988 and described what was on the film, this sort of stuff.
It was Paul Shardle who described to the police artist what the alien looked like.
So what I think happened was that he basically described this alien.
He couldn't describe the exact alien.
So, Chartle gave this description of this alien, this bizarre looking alien with the nose and with the breathing apparatus on the mouth and stuff like that.
And that's why it had come out.
Now, maybe he saw that thing in the British Museum, but it was this sort of protecting classified material.
What did the alien actually look like?
Because there's no doubt that it was very close to the alien.
But Bobbitt said that he never saw it and that this was actually done by Paul Chartle describing the alien.
Do you think?
I find there's a few interesting things that happen around this.
Period because, of course, Zechariah Sitchin shows up in this period and gets into the whole Sumerian Anunnaki thing, and that is also very Middle Eastern looking.
This is also another shot of the alien from the documentary, and they are compelling shots.
But what do you think was going on there?
Because you're saying, okay, again, they're going into this thing where they're saying, well, we can't really show a depiction of the alien that came out and greeted the military officials, but we can do a depiction that might be similar in a sense.
But what do you think is going on there?
Well, that's the thing.
I mean, I think they're just staying away from classified material because I believe Bob didn't really see the beings.
And they may have just picked up on Stitching or some idea of let's put this out.
We have to put out some sort of alien depiction.
And to me, it just reminded me of the idea that the object that they showed was away, far away.
You couldn't really determine anything.
And that when it comes to classified material, you can tell the story, but you have to fictionalize everything.
And that's basically the way the disclosure stuff has been done you take real material, you fictionalize it, you change it, you put it out, and then you can sort of get away with it.
Even like the To the Stars video.
With the Nimitz video.
And I always maintain, they say it's the same as this 2007 video.
And one of my updates, I play it.
There's absolutely no way it's the same video because the To the Stars has this bizarre noise in the background, like a vacuum cleaner going in the background.
The 2007 doesn't.
And that's what I think happens whether you're doing MJ12 documents, whether you're doing films or whatever, if you alter the video, you can release it.
You alter it a little bit.
It's the real video, but you alter it a little bit.
And then when people say, You can say it's a hoax.
It's not the same thing because you've altered the video.
It's a different video.
So you may, in a document, you may change one or two words in the document.
It's a hoax document.
You're getting the idea across because if you, it's again, it comes down to this thing.
If you really want to disclose, if you really want to show what the alien looks like, if you really want to show the Haldeman film, you would actually release the Haldeman film.
And there's been a number of attempts, like Eric Davis and Hell Put Off came to me many years later because what happened was that Bob.
And Alan Sandler and Paul Chartle appeared on what I said was the second UFO disclosure.
That was 1988, the UFO cover up live.
They appear on that show.
Chartle describes what's on the film.
They describe all this kind of stuff.
And you get this situation where they tell the story, but you really don't get anything.
Detailed.
It's another half thing.
You could actually release the film because Put Off was looking for it.
And what happened then is that Senator Dodd from Connecticut had actually got a request to FOIA that film.
The people were furious when that film was referenced in 1988.
And they went and all they could find out that it was in a Navy sink.
That's what Put Off was told.
And nobody could really identify what that really meant.
So nobody was able to recover the actual document.
And the whole thing is if you want disclosure, You just make you release the document.
If you want to cover up, you don't do anything, but if you want to sort of get it out, half get it out, you do this sort of thing you alter it, you change it, you put it out, you spin it.
And that's what they may be doing with the Nimitz or with the video or with the picture of this alien, where they alter it.
You put something out, but it's not the real item.
Fascinating.
And let's go into this, though, and go from it from put out's angle, saying that he thought it was the most important, this attempt.
In the early 70s to have UFO disclosure.
That was stopped because of the Watergate incident.
They pulled off.
But let's talk about how they got in.
That's the excuse they use.
That wasn't, whether it was Disney's excuse, that's what they do.
They drag you along.
It's like what people don't realize is that Eminiger had a second effort, 1983.
He's called a gain.
Do you know this story?
Yes.
And that's exactly the story I'm leading to.
I just want to clarify this one point about the early version.
So, Nixon, in that period, somehow the Republican Party and The Nixon administration.
Now, there's a Bob Haldeman connection to Emmenager.
That's his friend.
And he also has another friend who's an aide to Nixon.
Hershenson was the communications guy.
Yeah.
So he was in the Air Force with Hershenson and he was at UCLA with Bob Haldeman.
Bob Haldeman was one year older than Bob.
And so he got to know Bob Haldeman.
And there was, so when the filming was going on, Bob said there was a CIA guy on the set the entire time.
That they were filming.
The other thing that he said was the fact that he had asked Bob Haldeman, he said, What's this thing about?
Was there actually a landing at Haldeman Air Force Base?
And Haldeman had said to him, Well, I sort of heard something about that, but I really don't know.
And Hershenson was on the phone with him every day while they were shooting.
Really not asking anything, but just seeing how's it going and stuff like that.
So you had this interaction with.
They're overseeing it from afar.
Yeah.
And yet they were hands off, that there was no real connection.
The only real connection, you may have talked to Linda Howe about that.
And there's been a couple of confrontations.
That is the fact that when it was all said and done, Bob was in LA.
He was a vice president for gray advertising.
And that's an important part that Linda may have brought up.
Gray advertising was always seen as a front company for the CIA.
So they used gray advertising.
Not that Bob had anything to do with it, but they used gray advertising to do these kind of disclosure things.
So the UFO cover up live.
Thing was done by Gray Advertising, and so was Bob's 1975 documentary.
They're both done by Gray Advertising.
Yeah, and um, so uh, Bob has this.
And so, the other couple of stories that other people don't know is the fact that Bob, when I talked to him about the film, uh, he actually said they had a bunch of film, they had a bunch of photographs and stuff.
And it's that point I said to him, he told me about another film that they had that they were going to put in, and they didn't put in.
It was a film that you may have heard about, um.
We're not sure if it's the same film, but it was a launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base.
And the missile is shot out over the Pacific.
And they're tracking it with the cameras.
And suddenly these two UFOs interact with the missile.
And Bob is describing this film.
And I'm going, Well, I've heard about this film before.
And he said, We had, he named the guy who had done the analysis.
He was the guy who had done the analysis for the Robertson panel UFO stuff in the 1950s.
And he looked at this film and he said, There's one in a million chance this is not for real.
This is the real deal.
These are actual objects around this missile.
So, when I was talking to Bob, and there were many things that Bob, because he's not interested in the subject, he's not interested in UFOs.
And I have to keep asking him questions.
So, I said to him, I said, Oh, okay, so you sent the Holloman film back.
Did you send that film back too?
And he went, No, no, I don't think we sent that one back.
I said, What?
You still got the film?
And he said, I have to check with Alan.
No, I don't think we ever sent that film back.
And he went and checked with Alan Sandler, and they still have the film.
It's top secret.
It has Quintanilla's name on the canister.
And I know that I had talked to Angela Joyner.
This was just after the Stevensville thing happened.
I was dealing with Angela Joyner and I told her, and she told James Fox.
And James Fox has done some negotiation, a bunch of negotiation, to try to get this film.
He was going to put it in 701.
But they actually have this film that they actually didn't hand back.
We know what year it's from?
What's that?
We know what year it's from.
No, wait, I just know it was a launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base.
Okay.
And it was over the Pacific.
And there were so many stories that Bob would get out of him later on.
Where he it just wasn't significant to him to do it, like for example, I said to him, I said, You know, Bob, if it weren't for the location and the everything, this looks like Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
And he said, What I didn't tell you, and I said, No, you didn't tell me what he said, I didn't tell you, I gave a copy to Steven Spielberg.
I said, No, you didn't tell me that.
And it was like the film was 75, the documentary Close Encounters comes out in 77, and he said, I told you, Annie Spielberg.
Was a line producer for me.
She worked for us and we did documentaries on hypnosis and abduction and stuff like this.
And Annie Spielberg was working and she said, Steven wants a copy, would like a copy of the documentary.
And so he gave a copy to Steven Spielberg.
And two years later, you see basically the Holman Air Force Base story.
The Nixon Letter Leak00:02:57
They're waiting for it on the ground.
There's all these people.
They know when it's coming.
It's being filmed from different vantage points and stuff like that.
And according to Bob, he said that later on, Steven Spielberg's mother had come to him and said, You know, Bob, I've seen your version of Landing and I've seen Stephen's version of Landing, and I like Stephen's version better.
So, bizarre stories that Bob would never even think because he was just not interested in the story.
Well, let's go with Bob to his letters for a moment because what he says on the record is that he got a letter before he was doing the documentary from President Nixon and it said, Oh, what do you think of my cabinet?
Who would you recommend?
and so on, which I think is interesting anyway.
That's kind of like a little bit of outrage.
But later, there's a dinner, and this is what Linda Moulton Howe was getting into.
Now, what she's talking about is they have this dinner that takes place, and then he comes out and he shows her a letter.
The letter is from Nixon, and it says, Thank you for your discretion around this project.
On the project we were working on, yes.
Yes.
So now Linda's got a photographic memory.
So I trust Linda that she actually saw that.
And she mentioned the other researcher.
I can't remember if it was Fawcett or there was another researcher there as well.
Right, exactly.
And that was at Bob's home in Los Angeles before he moved to Arkansas.
We had an encounter, Bob, because Linda always comes to Eureka Springs as well.
There was an encounter in a restaurant where she confronted him about this.
Like, why don't you come clean, Bob?
Why don't you?
And he said, Well, I gave Grant the Nixon letter.
But the Nixon letter he was referring to was the one that you mentioned at first.
Every president will send out a letter to campaign people, high money people, and ask for suggestions of who do you think should work in the administration.
Because once the administration moves out, The new administration comes in, you got to replace every single job.
So they're looking for candidates.
And that was what that first letter was about just a general letter that had gone out to everybody.
And she said, No, you know what I'm talking about, Bob.
You showed me that letter.
And he sat there, and his wife was with him.
And it was the most uncomfortable moment of my life.
He sat there, and he didn't say anything.
And he didn't deny it, he didn't do anything.
So I think there was probably a letter, and it would be the whole thing that he was under a non disclosure agreement.
With Nixon, that he was never allowed to release this letter, and he had mistakenly shown it to Linda Howe.
Now, this is what's interesting about all that, which is that Nixon becomes this pivotal figure behind getting the documentary out.
And that little voice that gives Emanager all this access whenever he comes into conflict with Defense Department officials, and they're like, get out of here.
And then 10 minutes later, they're like, hey, you know, showing him around.
This is because whoever is overseeing this project, they have presidential approval and he's able to move around, which that to me explains why he gets this letter from Nixon saying, for your discretion.
Non-Disclosure Agreements Exposed00:04:41
Does that make sense to you?
He was very clear about that.
He said, there was literally nobody we couldn't talk to.
We could go wherever we wanted.
We had authorization to go everywhere.
And that's where he said, There's no cover up.
What do you mean there's no cover up?
I could go anywhere I wanted.
And that's when he would refer to the fact that he would go into the Pentagon without signing in, that they had this unbelievable power.
And the problem was at that point, they didn't really know what questions to ask.
Like they were given this story about the Holloman landing, they were given the story about the channeling of the alien and stuff like that.
But Roswell wasn't a story then.
None of that stuff was out where, you know, take me to Area 51 and show me the bodies or stuff like that.
They didn't know what questions to ask.
It was still a very simple blue book, sightings, this kind of stuff.
They really didn't have the material that they really needed.
That's fascinating.
And now to follow up on Emmenager's documentary, which came out twice and we know was almost aborted in there, at least they pulled the original film that they were going to have in it.
And it's kind of fascinating that they were contemplating allowing the Holloman Air Force Base incident to be in that first documentary.
Just the fact, I mean, they were really ready and stepping up for some kind of disclosure then.
But when we get into that later period, And it's this unusual TV event about UFOs.
It's 1989.
Can you tell me a little bit about that special?
Well, first, let me tell the story how Bob gets called back again.
Because in the 75 one, and the story that you may not have heard, at the very end of it, they came to Bob and they said it was funded by the MacArthur Foundation.
And they came and said to Bob at the very end, they said, Mr. MacArthur has put up the money and some of his friends aren't very happy with his name being associated with this thing.
So, could you keep his name off the credits?
But you can keep the money.
And it was a quarter of a million dollars.
And that was 1975 that was put up for that documentary.
So they got to keep the money.
And then in the 80s, maybe even a more significant overture is made.
I think it's 1983.
Bob is contacted again by Paul Shardle at Dava.
And they said, Can you come to Dava?
We want to talk to you again.
So they go, him and Alan Sandler, and they say, The government liked the documentary you did in the 19. 70s, and they'd like you to do it again.
And it was at that point that Bob said, So, who's behind this?
Is this Reagan?
Because he immediately made the connection like, Who's behind this?
And he said he never got an answer.
And the guy who was running that one was General Glenn E. Miller.
And Glenn E. Miller was the first agent for Ronald Reagan in Hollywood.
So he knew, and the other guy's name was Bob Scott.
It was, I think, a PhD.
They were the guys that were running Dava.
And They wanted on this documentary, they wanted Jacques Valet and they wanted J. Allen Hynek to be involved in the documentary.
And Jacques Valet actually writes about it in one of his books.
He calls it The Dangling Carrot.
And he's actually the one that calls it off because he knew what happened in the 70s.
They're going to get involved.
They're going to do all this sort of stuff.
Their reputation's on the line.
And at the last minute, they're going to pull the key parts.
But during that thing that Bob said was very unusual, where they're there, and I think Hynek is there.
And Glennie Miller says to Paul Chartley, he said, Okay, we got those UFO films.
We want to get them out.
I want you to take the UFO films.
I want you to take them out and show them to Heineck.
And Paul Chartle says, I'm sorry, General, you have to have a, whatever it was, a requisition, a request or something.
You have to have something.
I can't do that.
You need a request or a requisition or whatever.
He says, God damn, I'll have your ass.
You get the films and you give them to Heineck.
And he wouldn't do it, that he wouldn't pull these films out, this requisition.
But they were going to pull.
They have conflict on the inside on that one.
What's that?
They have conflict on the inside on that one.
Yeah, there was just this.
Technicality that Charlotte was going by the book.
That you, if you do it by the book, I'll give these things.
But that's what he was saying.
We need to get these films out and we're going to show them to Heineck.
We want to get these films out.
Now, what Bob told me was shortly after that, both Scott and Miller were fired by Weinbrenner.
He would they were removed from, and he said he didn't know whether it had anything to do with that.
But he was telling about a story, a bizarre story, where they're at their place and Heineck is there, and Miller comes in, this general who's running Dava, and he said, I know how it works.
Inside the UFO Committee00:10:49
Their voice activated.
I was inside the craft, and apparently, he said they saw Heineck's face.
Heineck was sort of looking like, I've been in this all this time, and they didn't tell me.
It was like he, that's the way both Bob and his wife described it.
Like Heineck was totally out of the loop.
He suddenly realized he had been had, he didn't know what was going on.
And this Miller was talking about the fact that he'd been in the craft and that he was basically like an experiencer.
So, you have these incidents.
And later on, it was actually, I got to know Bob fairly well, did a lot of interviews with him.
He actually, this would be going back maybe five or six years ago, he actually made another overture.
They actually went to the Pentagon again and they tried to set up another documentary.
Hell Put Off had given them some material on these kids in China, these kids that can actually move objects where they can make objects appear like telekinesis type stuff.
And that Hell Put Off had given a lot of material or told.
Uh, Eminager a lot about these kids, and so, um, Alan Sandler wanted to go to China and do a documentary on these kids this remote viewing, uh, telekinesis, how far the Chinese were advanced on their program, how much they had.
And they actually made a pitch, and the Pentagon actually turned them down.
But it was only a couple years ago, they actually made another pitch to do another documentary, so they knew what the process was.
But, um, there was a number of efforts, and it was always the same thing where they put stuff out and they pull it back at the very end.
Wow.
Now, lead us.
So that's really interesting, actually, about the 80s one because it's something that almost happened there.
And of course, when we get into that later 90s period, that's when this unusual live television broadcast happens.
And it's kind of like a big mash of all these different people that have been involved in these things.
And it harkens back to the documentary a little bit, too.
But just get us into that.
Tell us what it was all about.
Well, as I describe the way I describe the disclosure thing, I say it's always small d disclosure, it's always gradual disclosure, and it's the same players.
It's what was called the Avery under Bill Moore.
It's the same players that sort of enter the field, come out.
Kit Green has been since the 1960s.
Both he and Hell Put Off have had top secret SCI clearances since the late 60s.
They're working on the remote viewing program together.
They've done all sorts of black ops stuff.
They've interacted with the UFO phenomenon at little bits and pieces in their career.
So these guys keep reappearing.
And so the 75 documentary by Bob M. Magar was one of these programs.
But as I said, they did it with Disney.
And in 1988, they run what I say is the second UFO disclosure program.
That was in the last days of the Reagan administration.
Reagan was very interested in UFOs, and it was almost like Reagan had set up something to leave the public as he left.
And I remember talking to Billy Cox at the time, because I was dealing with Billy Cox at the time he was writing for Florida Today.
And I remember the rumors just before this documentary in October of 1988, about two weeks before the election took place.
We had actually heard the story about the live alien, that they had a live alien, that Reagan was going to appear on camera with a live alien.
This is one of the stories that was running around inside the UFO committee.
But what actually happened was this documentary came out, and what it was was basically a replay of 1975.
You have all the basic same players, you have these Avery type things, and they introduce a bunch of material.
So there's no confirming material, but the idea of Area 51 is brought up.
That's the first time the word Area 51 is actually brought up.
It's on a flow chart that's in that documentary.
And on the flow chart, it shows from the president on down how it all works.
You have Project Aquarius, you have DIA, Navy Intelligence, all this kind of stuff going down.
And on the one corner, you have Area 51.
And on the other side, you have another thing that was not known.
The Area 51 story would not come out until the spring of 1989, till six months after that documentary.
And nobody picked it up in the documentary that there was this Area 51.
Nobody knew what it was on this flowchart.
On the other side of the flowchart, they had this thing called the DIA Parapsychology Unit, which was the remote viewing program before it was taken over by the CIA and declassified in 1995.
It's on a flow chart in 1988 on this documentary.
So they introduce Harry 51.
They introduce the BIA flow chart.
They introduce this is when they bring up the idea of the live alien that we have this live alien that likes strawberry ice cream.
So you throw in the strawberry ice cream thing to throw everybody off.
Everybody says, ah, it's garbage.
Tell us what that is.
Yeah, this is the idea that he liked Tibetan music and that he likes strawberry ice cream.
So what you do is you throw the thing out.
This is the thing you throw the idea out, a live alien, then you pull it back by saying it likes strawberry ice cream.
And nobody believes the story, but they really remember the fact.
That there's a live alien.
And there was a live alien.
If you follow George Knapp, because you remember this is 1988.
This is when Bob Lazar comes out, Area 51, in spring of 1989.
The only reason Bob Lazar actually comes out is because they have no guest.
They're missing a guest.
George Knapp knows that there's this guy that claimed to have worked up on Area 51.
He's talking to John Lear.
They're in debt to John Lear because John Lear broke the stealth fighter story for KLS TV.
It's a real hit or miss story.
Situation basically, yeah, it's just by accident.
They put the backlight this guy, and this story goes viral about Area 51.
So, what happens at that point, and this is significant since George Knapp, like 24 ME awards or whatever he's got, you know, investigative journalist.
This is not John Lear telling the story, it's not me, this is some high level guy, right?
And so, when uh Bob Lazar came out, he had 24 other witnesses that were telling bits and pieces, and he needed a confirming witness.
So, what he does, he actually goes.
And he encounters a guy, and he's told this story a couple times.
He told on Paracast, he told it at the Atomic Museum in Las Vegas in a speech there.
He tells this story.
I needed a confirming witness.
So I knew there was one guy that this guy was a very powerful guy.
He's one of the top three guys at EGG.
He had wired the atomic bombs in the 1940s there.
If anybody knew that the Area 51 story was true, this guy would know.
And so George Knapp tells the story.
He goes to meet this guy.
He says, How are you doing?
I'm George Knapp.
He goes to all this guy's lectures.
He gets to know the guy and he works on this guy for six months.
And then the guy invites him to his house.
And he goes to his house and he is showing him these bomb craters at the test site where they blew all these atomic bombs up.
And he's going through the thing and Bob's looking at these pictures.
And then he goes, You didn't come here to look at bomb craters, did you?
And George says, No, not really.
And he said, I know what you want to talk about.
And Bob says, You want to talk about UFOs?
And Bob says, Yeah.
No, George Knapp says, Yeah, I'd rather talk about that.
And the guy's wife says to him, Oh, don't start telling them those stories.
Don't touch that.
And he starts telling George Knapp, The fact that Area 51's for real, they got the crafts, and then George says to him, He says to him, Well, weren't you afraid the story was going to get out?
And he says, Uh, no, we weren't afraid the story was going to get out, we were afraid it was going to get out.
And that's when George, because Bob Lazar had told the story of seeing the live alien going down the hall, and he looked in this one window, and the live alien was there.
And he, the guy told him to keep his eyes straight ahead, and so he knew the story about the live alien.
So he said, What you mean there was a live alien?
And that's when the guy says, and this ties into your story of this guy that has the time capsule.
The guy that's telling George Knapp the story says, Well, we couldn't communicate with it.
And he said, It came across time and space, across the galaxy, and you kept the thing captive.
And he said, But we didn't know how to communicate with the thing.
And we were afraid it was going to get out.
And then later on, you see the movie called Paul.
And Paul is the story.
It's the fictionalized story of the alien that escapes from Area 51.
And this is the same thing.
They fictionalized the story, they put it out.
All right.
So, George is a highly credible person, and he basically got this confirmation.
So, you have this story, and all of them, Linda Howe, was offered an interview with the live alien.
I asked Bob Emeneger, I said, Bob, you were offered the interview with the live alien.
And he said, Well, yeah, but that's garbage.
That was all garbage.
And I said, Well, who told you the story?
Who offered you, made you the offer to interview the live alien?
And he said, Paul Chartle.
And I said, Was Paul Chartle reliable?
And he said, Yeah.
And I said, Well, then maybe there was something, but a lot of people were offered this interview in the 1980s with this live alien.
So the idea was that they actually had this live alien, but it was the same thing.
It was this with what uh Valet talked the dangling carrot.
They put the carrot out, you go to grab the carrot, you tell your part of the story, they get to use you, and they pull the carrot back.
The confirming evidence, so they're telling the story, but they're not giving you anything to confirm the story with.
Amazing, it's absolutely you know, it is incredible, and of course, they came out later and they you know.
They had this guy who had a film of an alien being interrogated and things like that.
And that's almost like a caricature of this real thing that was happening.
And I do think the Paul story is significant because we do have this guy who was involved in the crash retrievals.
And we were actually talking about him last night.
And he had that whole thing about how he helped the alien escape.
And, you know, that's one of those crash retrieval stories.
But there is interesting, there are so many legends about this being and that they.
They had him at a certain point.
Yeah, there's even an interesting story.
I don't know if you ever talked to Linda, get her to tell you the story on camera.
It's an interesting story.
It was almost like spy versus spy.
I mean, it's just a bizarre story where she gets this phone call and she has to run to this telephone booth.
They say you got like five minutes to get to this telephone booth.
She runs to this telephone booth, picks it up, and she's talking to this guy.
And this is where they set her up with the keeper of the live alien.
I think he's a captain or something.
At the time, he's dying.
He's in Texas and he's dying.
And they offer Linda.
The interview that she can go and interview this guy who's dying, who actually was the keeper of the live alien.
And so she goes through these phone calls back and forth, back and forth on phone booths, all this bizarre stuff like that.
And then the night she buys the ticket to fly to Texas, and the night before she's to fly, they pick up the phone, they say, the interview's off, and hang up the phone.
Spy Versus Spy Tactics00:11:09
So it's the same thing.
You drag them along, and then you pull it, the dangling carrot, you pull it back at the very end.
So Linda was involved in a lot of these.
And I can't remember on my webpage, I think I list how many people, but I think there was maybe four or five people.
I think it was offered an interview with the live alien as well.
There were like four or five people in the 1980s that were all made this offer of talking to the live alien.
It's fascinating.
Where did the disclosure movement go next after '89?
The live alien Reagan leaves office, the Star Wars aspect and SDI is all gone.
We go into the Clinton and the Bush and Clinton era, and then what are the strains of disclosure that we're seeing there?
Because we know that people come forward like John Mack, we know Lawrence Rockefeller is involved.
What is the big 90s push?
Well, the big 90s push is the big move with the MJ12 documents because people know about the MJ12 document that Bill Moore and Bill Moore, Friedman, and Jamie Sandra had that they got in 1984.
Most people don't realize there are 3,700 pages of MJ12 documents, and most of those were leaked to a guy by the name of Tim Cooper.
And this gets into this thing.
They're getting entire books with MJ12 stamps on them with handwritten notations.
This is where the Byrne memo comes from, the Oppenheimer Eisenhower memo, all these things where Bob and Ryan Wood are contacted.
First, Stanton is contacted, this Tim Cooper.
And the interesting thing was you see these connections once you've been through it and you see all these names keep reappearing.
It's all the same names all the time that flow through this thing.
At the end of this month, Melinda Leslie is going to do a speech.
Her and I are going to do a speech where we're going to, in San Francisco, we're going to go through this whole list of all these characters.
And my list is longer than hers.
She's sort of got a different criteria.
She's got about 50 people, but it's all these Avery people that run through.
And she's been doing the same research as me since the 1980s that these people are part of this disclosure.
They move in here, they're with NIDS, they're with Eminager, they're with, say, the Firmage, when Firmage gets going.
They're now part of the Tom DeLong thing.
It's these same characters that keep moving through this sort of thing.
So, we're going to do this speech where we sort of name all these people.
But in the Tim Cooper thing, he's the guy that was getting the material.
He was getting them from the CIA.
He would send in FOIA material and he would get back envelopes with the CIA stamped on the thing with all these documents.
And he was getting leaked 3,700 pages of documents from about five different sources.
One of the things that I found Ryan Wood and Bob Wood were working on this.
And one of the things you see these significant Connections.
They were showing me the documents, and one was a citation that his father had gotten from Curtis LeMay, but they had spelt LeMay wrong on the document.
But he was showing me this thing, and I looked at it, and I saw that he had worked at the National Photographic Interpretation Center, Tim Cooper's father.
And I said, Can you believe this?
He worked for Arthur Lundahl.
Arthur Lundahl was the guy who ran the weird desk.
And so here's a document that nobody realized, only I, because I knew the story about Bob Emmenager being told about the National Photographic Interpretation Center.
Now that the Cooper documents are actually.
Yeah, that his father was a photographic analyst at that lab.
So you see connections, and it was almost like his father worked in UFOs, and the son got brought into UFOs.
Almost like the idea that Richard Doty's uncle was a big guy in Blue Book.
His father was a UFO guy, and that it runs through families, that the kids sort of run through this sort of thing.
So that's what started.
So you have 3,700 pages.
That's where people say, Oh, Richard Doty is behind MJ 12.
And I said, I knew Richard Doty in the 1980s, and there's no way Richard Doty is behind this.
He's only in the Air Force.
He left the Air Force in 85 came back in 87, but he was gone long before inflated importance around Doty.
There's no question.
This is an operation.
This is a major operation.
When you're releasing 3,700 pages in the UFO community, this is major because Jacques Valais pointed it out.
People say, oh, this is disinformation.
But when you listen to what Jacques Valais says, he said, you know, it's very strange.
Why would the government spend so much money and so much time to try to disinform a group of people who have literally no influence on anybody?
Nobody listens to us.
I mean, we're in our own little world, but why would they do this to influence us to throw us off?
There's no point in throwing us off.
They really want to throw us off.
They would just shut up.
Let's spotlight the Cooper memo for a minute because I'm glad you brought that up.
The burnt memo is the key one in all of those documents.
I mean, there's so many interesting things in there, but the burnt memo basically is an authorization to assassinate President Kennedy over the UFO file.
And just tell me, go into the burnt memo a little bit for me.
Well, I never followed the documents because I always saw them as.
As hoaxes.
They were altered documents.
Like the burn memo is a prime example.
The story was that they were going to burn the document and they pulled it out of the fire.
And that's just like that's spycraft.
That's like making the story seem.
And so what they want is these ideas.
They put these ideas.
Now, I'm not sure whether the ideas are right with the Kennedy thing, the fact that Oppenheimer worked on it, all this kind of stuff.
So what they're doing is they're using these hoax documents that have been altered, putting them out so that they can actually say they're hoax documents.
It doesn't come back.
You can't really verify this sort of stuff.
But most of the ideas that we have in the UFO community are leaked to us.
Nobody discovered anything.
The Area 51, the idea about Kennedy, the idea about the live alien, all this sort of stuff about the Falcon, the Condor, all this kind of stuff has been leaked to us.
And so they're doing like a fictionalized version of stuff.
And we're just repeating the story.
And that's what they want, they want the story out slowly.
They want the idea, but they don't want anybody to confirm anything.
Because if they wanted to confirm it, they'd put the president or the CIA director out and actually tell us what's going on.
What happens?
I followed the document.
I really didn't.
No question.
It's incredible disinformation and psyops around it.
What happens when they encounter a situation, though, when the information gets out ahead of them?
Because.
Oh, that's a prime example.
Bob Emmenager told me that the Holomoniferous based story started in May of 1971.
And it happened at 6 o'clock in the morning.
And these guys on, and the radar guys, he had so many details, unbelievable details.
So then, 1983.
Linda Howe is brought to Kirkland Air Force Base and she has her encounter with Richard Doty.
He starts telling her, Oh no, it didn't happen in May of 1971, it happened in 1964.
But now there's two stories.
Now it's me and Linda are fighting about no, it's 64, no, it's 71.
And that's what they do if there's a real, legitimate story, the fastest way to kill that story is to put something else in there, put a second agent who comes and tells a contrary story with conflicting details, and the UFO community for sure is going to start fighting.
And nobody's going to know what's for real.
People will know there was a film, there was a Hollywood film, but because neither Linda nor I can confirm what the date was, everybody goes, well, you know, it's all disinformation.
The idea gets out and nothing happens, almost like the Area 51 thing.
The Area 51 story was to be leaked to John Lear.
And John Lear was the guy who was running around talking about the Dulcie Underground Base and the fact that, you know, there's a shootout and they take your soul to the moon after you die and all this kind of stuff.
He had these really bizarre ideas, but he told the truth.
And so what you see with him is they wanted him to tell the story.
And from late 1988 till that interview in 1989 that George Knapp did, it was John Lear telling the story.
Nobody believed it.
As soon as George Knapp told the story, suddenly everybody started to believe it went viral.
And in the Dulcie base, you remember the story about the Dulcie base, the aliens said nobody's allowed to have arms, somebody has arms, the shootout starts with the special forces, there's all these people killed.
So that story has supposed to happen at the Dulcie base.
But Bob Lazar, one of the stories that he tells is the second day he's on the base, he's shown 125, 127 documents.
And this makes no sense.
Like when you're training somebody, you don't tell them how the whole program works, you show them where the washroom is.
You show them where the lunchroom is.
That's about all you tell them.
And he's suddenly given all these documents.
And one of the documents he's shown is the shootout underground, except his shootout happens under Area 51.
It's exactly the same story, except that happens under Area 51.
So that's how they distort the stories.
They put two different things, the same story with two different things.
And we're bumping around with each other.
And we understand there was a shootout.
We understand there was a live alien.
But nobody can confirm anything because we're all fighting about the details of the story.
According to that pattern, they knew Lazar was going to come out and be there.
The point man on the story, uh, even though he was coming out as a genuine, legitimate whistleblower about what he was seeing, yeah, they showed him because.
And what I say, if you want to understand the Bob Lazar story, you got to understand how it started.
What how it started was he met Teller at Los Alamos, and then he comes and he has an encounter with John Lear, they're doing an assessment on the house, and they start talking UFOs or whatever.
He says, I want to go back in the field, and he says, Well, phone Teller, he runs the operation, phone him and tell him you want to go up to the base.
So, in November of 1988, Bob Lazar.
Phones Edward Teller and he says, I'd like to get back in the field.
And Teller says, Where would you like to work?
Would you like to work up at Livermore where I am, or would you like to go up to the base?
And he said, I'd like to go up to the base.
Within weeks, he's on the base.
He needs his top secret security clearance.
Within two weeks, he's on the base.
But first, he does three interviews with EGG.
And George and Apple confirmed this.
The second interview, the first question in the second interview was, Do you know John Lear?
And what do you think about him?
So they knew before he went on to the base that he was friends with John Lear.
That's what they wanted.
They wanted John Lear to carry the story because nobody's going to believe John Lear.
They didn't realize it would go viral.
When it goes viral, they actually, for example, Bob Lazar told them when the test was.
It was Wednesday night at eight o'clock or whatever.
And they go up there three times.
One time, John Lear isn't there.
But the third time, they get caught.
So why would they tell Bob Lazar when the test is?
Because they wanted him to take John Lear up there.
They wanted the story out that they were testing this thing.
And so when they capture him the third night, He gets called into Indian Springs the next morning.
Bob Lazar is taken in and he claims they put a gun to his head.
And they say, When we told you it was top secret, that didn't mean to bring your friends out to watch the test.
And what happens is, so he's leaked top secret material, the most highly classified subject in the United States.
Leaked Top Secret Material00:11:07
And what do they do?
They don't even fire him, they don't arrest him, they don't fire him.
All they do is suspend his security clearance and say, Your wife is having an affair with her instructor, with her airplane instructor.
And we overheard this on the phone calls and we're going to cut you a break.
And they actually invite him back to Area 51.
It's Bob Lazar who didn't go back to Area 51.
He was never fired.
He was never arrested.
Why not?
Because they had more stuff they wanted him to put out.
So they were going to invite him back to the base, show him some more stuff.
It was Bob Lazar that quit.
He didn't get fired.
It's that same group.
It's the small D disclosure group in there that is trying to create these conditions to put it out their way about the UFO file.
Now, this is fascinating.
I'm going to stop here for a minute and say to Olivia, everyone who's going to put questions together for us in the last half hour, just.
Ask your questions for Olivia.
She's going to put them together for us and we're going to put it together.
How are you doing over there?
Please ask them in caps.
Ask them in caps.
Okay.
So if you have questions for Grant about this, if you want to, you know, whatever your questions are, put them together, put them in caps.
She's going to put them together and in the last half hour we're going to go over them.
Now, this is fascinating because we're in the middle of trying to sort out this other aspect about the Nixon time capsule and Robert Merritt's working with Nixon.
Your thing is presidential UFOs.
White House UFO is your UFO, your YouTube channel.
You know the presidential aspects around UFOs better than anybody.
Give me just a couple of minutes of Nixon and the UFO topic.
We have the Jackie Gleason story.
I think it is powerful and it is backed up by solid evidence.
So why don't we start with that?
Well, I went to the Nixon, to the National Archives.
People have to realize that Nixon is significant because.
He doesn't have his own.
He has a presidential library now, but at that time he didn't because Nixon tried to grab the files.
He claimed that the files were owned by the president.
He was loading the files into trucks and he was actually stopped.
They had this big court battle and it was determined that the public owned the files.
So I went to the National Archives to look at the Nixon UFO files and it was the same as all the other presidential libraries.
There were no files.
There are no UFO files in the presidential libraries because it's plausible liability.
You don't want everybody to know that the president knows what's going on.
So, you move the stuff away.
And where I sort of confirmed that was that because there's no UFO files, doesn't mean the president doesn't know about UFOs.
What I did is I went to Hell Put Off because Hell Put Off had run the remote viewing program and he was running the thing.
And I said to him, Did they brief the president on remote viewing?
And he said, Yes, up until I think he said Bush, Vice President Bush or something.
He said, Until that point, yes, the president was being briefed.
And after that, I guess he left the program or whatever.
But he confirmed it, yes.
There are no remote viewing documents in the presidential.
We know for sure that remote viewing was being dealt with because Jimmy Carter talked about it and all this kind of stuff.
There were presidents that talked about it.
So when I went to look at the files, all there was was in the Nixon files was a very significant.
He's the only president that ever, I think, wrote a letter, an actual UFO letter.
People would always write letters.
You'd have the file where people are sent.
He actually wrote a letter to a girl and actually tracked the girl down.
She lived in Minnesota.
He'd actually sent her a book and he wrote about, you know, we don't really think there's anything to this or something like that.
And it was very significant.
So I pulled that.
But other than that, there was really nothing in the Nixon files.
I did look at all the stuff.
Like, for example, we knew the Jackie Gleason story because I had sent Robbie Young to do the interview.
We had discovered Jackie Gleason's second wife was selling the silverware.
And we had heard the rumored story about Jackie Gleason at the base in Florida at Homestead Air Force Base.
And so, when we discovered that Jackie Gleason's second wife, the one that was going to do the book that actually told the story about Gleason seeing the bodies, he went and did two interviews with her.
And she basically, in the interviews that were done, said, Yes, this was this.
He either was running around with a woman or this actually happened because he was very, very upset when that night when he came home and told me the story and stuff like that.
And she said that Jackie Gleason was very upset when she put this article.
She was trying to push this book.
So, she put this article in the National Enquirer, I think it was 1983.
1983, he said that Gleason was very upset about this.
So, what I was checking in the Nixon file was, what about the base?
And what I discovered is that Nixon's southern White House was in Key Biscayne and that he went there.
I actually, in my webpage, I tell him it was a lot of times.
It was like 50 or 75 times he flew down there.
He would always fly to Homestead Air Force Base and then he would take the Army helicopter from the base.
To the house, so he was at that base numerous, numerous times, and that was where this incident took place.
And the fact I would check things like how you know when this incident took place, like when did they golf?
Because there was a story that this started on a golf course that Nick Jackie Gleason had this golf course outside of Miami that Nixon had come down there to do this golf tournament, this charity golf tournament.
So that was the kind of stuff that I most of the stuff I was doing in archives was trying to track down outside rumored stories of the president interacted with this person.
And then trying to find the actual file on that person.
Just the 60 second time capsule of the story is that Nixon was talking with Gleason, who's a lifelong UFO kind of fanatic in a sense.
And he eventually even had his home made into the shape of a saucer, right?
So they have this conversation, and what happens?
And well, they have this conversation, and then later that night, Nixon appears in the car by himself.
And picks up Gleason, and they, Gleason's about 20 miles from Homestead.
They drive to Homestead, they come to the gate.
The gate guy is very surprised, but salutes.
They go in, and he takes them to a hangar, and he shows them these bodies.
And Gleason describes the fact that he shows them the bodies, takes them back to his house, and then Nixon disappears.
And that was one of the controversies that people said that Nixon, there's no way Nixon could have got away.
There's no way Nixon, he's under Secret Service, he couldn't.
And so one of the things I actually produced from Nixon files was that Nixon got away numerous times.
The story that he would get the, the, the, The chef or somebody to drive him, he'd hide under a thing under the back seat.
They would drive him out of the gate.
Then the guy would go back and he would drive and they would pick him up in a hotel or in a bar in Washington.
They would always, that Nixon had done this a number of times, had escaped the Secret Service.
So that was the kind of stuff I was verifying.
And the Gleason thing Gleason had actually stated that he talked to a number of presidents about UFOs, that he had discussed UFOs.
So, but it was the same old thing.
It was like it was almost impossible to verify the story.
You had the story, it seemed to make sense.
But there was no absolute thing that would confirm the story.
And just the punchline of the whole story is Nixon took him into the Homestead Air Force Base and showed him dead alien bodies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is pretty hardcore, which is interesting with Gleason's interest in that.
I mean, I was looking at a program from 1958, which had Gleason calling into a UFO program and talking about what was going on there.
So we know Gleason had the deep interest in it.
And if the ex wife confirmed the story, it gives it a lot of.
Credence, let's face it, it's not one of those urban legends.
It really has some substance.
Yeah, yeah.
But there's always this plausible deniability around the president that it's so hard to confirm any of these stories.
There was the one with Spielberg.
Spielberg with a number of the presidents, with Jimmy Carter.
There's a bizarre thing happened with Jimmy Carter that apparently Close Encounters of the Third Kind was Jimmy Carter's number one movie.
And there was this rumored story that NASA had put up $20 million for the movie.
And then in exchange, Jimmy Carter got a personal copy of the movie and he was watching this movie.
So, when I go to the Carter Library, I'm of course looking for the Steven Spielberg file.
And in the Steven Spielberg file, like in the presidential record, anybody who's interacted with the president, whether you've talked to him on the phone, whether you've been in a, say, a dinner with 200 people, you're on a list, or whether you've actually had a meeting with the president, it's called an alpha file that you go into this alpha file that shows you had a phone conversation or a meeting or whatever.
So, I'm looking for the alpha file for Steven Spielberg and the archivist at the library.
Is a very interesting UFOs.
He actually went to school with Chip Carter and he said that the date for the Carter sighting is actually wrong.
It was actually, he believed it was 67, not 69, because he was in school with Chip Carter and he said Chip Carter told him the story about the UFO sighting and it was before 69.
So here's this archivist who's really into this kind of stuff.
He was like really into the UFO thing.
So I have not a guy who's trying to hide stuff.
He's actually helping me look for stuff.
And he pulls the file on Spielberg and this bizarre thing happens.
I look at the file and what you have.
Is a picture of Steven Spielberg and Roslyn Carter and Jimmy Carter, and they're in a pose where they're shaking hands.
And yet, you have an envelope and a letter, and one is over Spielberg's face and one over Jimmy Carter's face.
And you can tell it's them, but you can't.
And it's a photocopy of a photograph.
So, the archivist actually tried because we've got the number of the photograph, tried to find the photograph, and there is no photograph.
We were trying to find the photograph.
So, there's this bizarre thing at the thing that shows that.
Jimmy Carter and Spielberg did have this meeting, but it's not in the file.
If you look to see, there's no record of them ever having a phone call, ever a meeting, and stuff like that.
And yet, in this alpha file, it actually shows this photocopy of a photo of these two.
So it's these kind of bizarre things.
And we know that Spielberg screened ET at the Reagan White House.
So Spielberg had that presidential connection.
He's incredibly, you know, it's interesting because in that Nixon period, they're trying to work through Emmenager and get a documentary done, like sort of an inside guy, someone who works and Advertising who is, you know, has the film background, but he's a friend of Haldeman, so they can kind of get it in that way.
By the time you get into Reagan and stuff, they, you know, they're trying to figure out who in the Hollywood scene they can work with to get this out.
Yeah.
Spielberg's Presidential Connections00:02:29
Cause, cause Bob, you got to remember, Bob was really not the connect.
He had the connection.
He'd worked on the Nixon reelection campaign on the advertising, but it was actually Alan Sandler who was the guy.
Yeah.
Sandler was the connection.
He was the guy that would bring in the CIA.
He's the one that made the contracts.
And his wife really didn't.
I think she sort of figured that Sandler was always getting Bob into trouble with different stuff, dragging him into different projects.
She didn't want him doing stuff like that.
But she said that Alan was tremendously resourceful.
She said you could give him a stick and a piece of gum in the morning, and by night he'd made money.
And there was an incident, and it may have to do with the UFO cover up.
Live, they needed regression people.
I think they regressed Burroughs or they were doing some regression or whatever.
And so they asked Sandler, and Sandler said, Hang on, he went out.
And the two guys that did the regression were both CIA people.
That within 10 minutes, he had regression people to do regressions.
Because Bob was doing all these other documentaries.
And maybe, no, it was another documentary they were doing where Alan produces these CIA guys, psychiatrists.
What's the last major thing that Sandler has done that you can think of?
Well, Sandler has the vault.
Sandler had the production studio.
It was Bob that was.
Was doing the writing and all this kind of stuff.
But they haven't done anything for it was in the 70s.
I don't think they've really done anything after 1980.
They were out of it because they all had separate jobs.
I don't know what.
And you've got to remember, Alan Sandler's never really gone on camera.
Linda's talked to him.
Linda's had interactions.
I've never even talked to the guy.
I've always known Bob, so I don't really know what his thing was.
Bob had his other job and he retired, moved to Arkansas, and has really done no.
No programs after that on anything, not UFOs.
I did.
I put out an offer for Bob to come on the show.
So if you do run across him, tell him he's certainly welcome.
Yeah, well, his apparently, I just had a producer talk to him on another thing, and apparently his memory is not that good.
He's getting fairly old.
He will tell you the stories, but he may repeat the same stories over and over again.
His wife is more into exactly what happened, but again, it's not her story.
It's kind of fascinating, actually, when we look at all this.
Thousands of Pages in Archives00:15:19
One of the big pieces around this Nixon time capsule that's going on is there's a letter now out from the former Watergate lawyer, Douglas Caddy, representing Merritt and asking the National Archives to take the directions to the time capsule and take possession of the document.
But he wants the document read to the public and the media.
You've been around this National Archives and this kind of research, and what do they do with a request like that, in your opinion?
I mean, this is somebody who they just added a great deal of material for in relation to Watergate from FOIA requests.
So his documents are on file there.
And Caddy, of course, being the Watergate lawyer for the seven burglars, he's a well known historical personage.
But in your opinion, just looking at that end of it, what do they do with a letter like that?
I think they absolutely do anything but answer the letter.
I mean, they will stonewall it because you've got to put yourself in the position of the guy who's the archivist at the National Archives.
Are you going to create a situation where you're going to confront Donald Trump and the White House and say, We have to come into the White House and we're going to stage this thing on TV?
I mean, if it turns out like the vault, you know, with the Titanic thing where nothing is there, I mean, everybody at the National Archives is fired.
I had one example of dealing with them, and that has to do with I'm sort of famous for getting the Rockefeller Initiative documents, the thousand pages of documents from the Clinton Library.
And what happens there, I get the actual documents, I've got, you know, all the thousand pages.
I filed an appeal.
I get another 100 pages of other documents that they left out.
And so when Clinton Library opens up, I, of course, put in my 100 FOIAs and I request the 1,000 pages of documents from the Rockefeller Initiative.
And the Clinton Library comes back and says, We don't have them.
And I said, Well, you got to have them.
I mean, I've got them.
And I sent them the actual FOIA request and the answer from the FOIA that lists all the documents, the dates, who was the letter from here to here, whatever.
And they said, No, we don't have them.
You got to go to the National Archives.
Maybe they've got them.
So I go to the National Archives and they say, no, we have nothing either.
And this is from the Office of Science and Technology Policy.
They say, no, we don't have it.
So I filed an appeal with the National Archives.
I said, you got to have these files.
There's no way you don't have these files.
And again, I sent them all the details.
No, no, no stuff.
I lost the appeal.
So basically, you have these thousand pages of Rockefeller Initiative documents that are now missing.
They're gone.
And nobody knows where they are.
Nobody cares.
And I have actual copies.
I have copies of a thousand pages.
One of the suggestions was that I take the documents, make photocopies, and send them to Clinton Library and say, you're missing some documents.
You better put them in the files.
So the National Archives moves at the speed of mud.
They are not going to take any risks.
Even if you listen to John Greenwald talking about these FOIAs now with the films with the Navy intelligence, he said you could be talking five years before you get replies.
So it's the risk thing, whether you're not going to take the risk.
If you're the head of the National Archives, you're not going to put yourself in a position where you're going to confront the White House and say, We got to come in the White House with cameras and all these people and we're going to read this letter.
And it's sort of like, you know.
Let the next guy deal with this.
They'll make excuses.
That's my prediction.
It's not really going to go anywhere.
It's an interesting confrontation, though.
It does sort of put it on the record.
No question.
No question about it.
At this point, all we know about them is that they've received the document, that they've received the letter with the request, and that the directions that Merritt is willing to give them, and they can take possession of the document and all the rest.
So the offer stands there right now.
That's where it's at.
But How would you, if you were looking at a situation like this beyond the National Archives, what would be your other kind of approach on this?
Well, I think the approach they took was right.
I mean, I think that's the best you can do.
For sure, if Robert has got this, I would say, I mean, he's got to have his own time capsule and he has to have a bunch of people that know.
Because, I mean, if, say, he died last night, the story's over.
I mean, it's game over.
He's the only guy that knows where this is.
So he has to protect his story.
And then hope that he can maybe get the New York Times or get somebody to put some pressure on the National Archives.
Because alone, the National Archives is not going to take that kind of step.
This is government.
This is a very controversial type thing that you can't guarantee anything.
So I think that's all you can really do is verify your story where it is, though giving it away, and put as much pressure on the National Archives as you can, make it as public as you can, and hope that.
Somehow, somebody asked Trump, but even if you take the Trump situation with the, for example, the to the stars, I mean, you have these two videos, you have this big New York Times thing, and the White House reporter, this guy from the Hill, asks Sarah Sanders, Is Donald Trump interested in UFOs and is he going to refund this program?
And she said, I'll talk to him and I'll get back to you.
Totally ignored it.
I talked to the reporter, I said, Did she get back to you?
Even he won't talk to me.
So that's gone under the.
It's the old deal is unless you put an awful lot of pressure, they're not going to do anything because this is a deadly sort of thing.
You don't want the president in this thing because I differ from other people.
I say the president knows exactly what's going on.
The president is the Wizard of Oz.
The president's running the cover up, and you'll do everything you can in your power to keep him out of this thing because you can have the Secretary of State go down, doesn't matter.
Defense go down, the president goes down, the country goes down.
And so you do everything you can to keep the president out of the storyline of UFOs.
Because this is a toxic issue.
It's something which doesn't really get you elected.
There are so many bad things.
That's why they're doing the gradual disclosure thing is to try to release it as slowly as possible so that it doesn't blow up in everybody's faces.
Do the people on the inside want the message themselves?
Oh, absolutely.
I say that the vast majority of the people on the team that are pushing this to the stars thing are all experiencers.
Jim Semivan, for sure, the guy that Melinda Leslie interviewed, definitely is an experiencer.
One of the people.
On the team that's working on the experiencers is an experiencer.
There's a NASA guy that's an experiencer.
I've heard that Hal Putoff has an experience when he was very young.
So you have all these people who have a sort of a vested interest in getting this out, but it's playing inside the game, it's playing the rules.
We've even got in some emails I've actually got where a guy's name Rick Dearborn has come up, who's the deputy chief of staff for policy at the White House.
His name is on these emails as if he's the point man.
This is what I'm told.
He's the point man for this story in the White House.
So you have this thing going, and they're trying to gradually move it out there, gradually get the story, but protect it from going viral.
That's what happened to the Area 51 story.
Once George Knapp did it, it went viral.
And that's when Bill Clinton had to take away some more land because suddenly you had this, you know, all these people.
They had Billy Goodman, this guy, this.
Radio guy from Las Vegas taking buses up there.
People up there watching the base, and they actually had to move, take the land away to stop people.
The story sort of got out of control.
And that's the kind of thing they're trying to avoid is where the story sort of gets out of control.
What they've done is brilliant in terms of the To the Stars thing.
What they did was they basically, and I was told this a year ago, and I didn't believe it would happen.
They said, high level government officials are going to out themselves, and they're going to say this thing's for real.
It's exactly what happened.
And nobody burned down the White House.
Nobody did anything.
It actually went out that you had Elizondo.
Justice, Mellon, you know, put off and Semivan all come out and say this story is for real.
And they're all got reputable backgrounds inside the government and nothing happened.
And yet, the way you see the deniability thing is when you file the FOAs, and apparently there are 1,500 FOAs have been filed on this case, the government says, No, we didn't release any documents.
No, what do you mean?
They say, We have no documents.
We didn't release the films.
And they're playing the same game again.
It's like, We don't know what you're talking about.
And so the story's out there, and nobody can confirm it with documents or actual confirmations from the Defense Department.
Defense Department's playing like they don't know what's going on, which is kind of a schizophrenic situation.
There's no question about it.
But they've been at this for a while, as you pointed out.
So if we take the 45 years, say, from the time capsule situation with Nixon and him pushing the Eminem Egger documentary before backing off from it, and you bring that all the way up.
Now, let's bring that up to date.
To all the stuff that you've done, we certainly will save the whole TTSA story for another uh interview for sure.
But just a quick update on that one of the main things that's come out recently is that Elizondo now says he didn't bring the films out, yeah.
So he's backing up that.
Just tell me how you feel about that.
You've been tracking that story so closely, uh, and of course, he was talking to Knapp who let it go by, so it's it's pretty outrageous, isn't it?
Well, no, that's the way it works.
This is what I'm saying, it this is how it works.
Uh, like he, this is what I said when it first came out, I immediately said.
I call it the high hurdle.
How did they get the videos out?
Because whatever you do, if you bring a legitimate document, that's why there's no legitimate documents.
They're all fake.
They've all been altered because it's the high hurdle.
If you can get a document that's actually confirmed, that you can go to the National Archives and find the document, it's game over.
It all starts to unravel and you can't control it.
Or if you bring out a film, like if you actually bring out a film, the government releases a film and says, this is a legitimate film.
We're backing this up.
This is an actual film of a UFO.
You lose control of the story.
So what you do is you have these gradual releases where it comes out and the Defense Department is denying it.
Elizondo is talking about it.
So that's what he's saying.
I didn't release the film, which is true.
I don't release the film.
It's controlled by the Defense Department.
The Defense Department released the film.
The same as when we interviewed Jim Semivan.
We said, Is this being green lighted by the Defense Department?
And he said, Yes, it is.
So this is this thing that they're getting the videos out.
And that's where I say they may alter the video a little bit or there's some way they're doing it.
Because if they wanted a legitimate Nimitz video with the trailer that shows it's top secret, with even this thing with the chain of custody.
So, you say the chain of custody is classified.
Well, come on.
You say we're going to prove we've got the chain of custody, but it's classified.
We can't show it to you.
What's the difference?
It's the same thing.
That's like this plausible deniability thing that nobody can confirm that Nimitz video is actually for real.
They're saying it's for real.
Nobody, the Defense Department is denying it.
And you end up in this sort of thing where you get the story's bouncing around, and that's what they want.
They don't want you to confirm the story.
So, this is where they play these sort of games.
And now they're in a situation where they're facing 1,500 FOIAs, and they may have to confirm.
The actual existence of the program.
But as far as I know, at this point, the Defense Department is not saying there is an ATIP program.
They are not confirming that.
Yeah, that's particularly interesting.
Certainly a lot of air has gone out of that balloon since that presentation back in October.
One of the things that really was the cherry on top was when it was discovered by an English newspaper that they had used a Mylar balloon when they were doing the presentation for the Tic Tac video.
That was actually a balloon picture that they showed.
At the presentation.
Are those kind of mistakes on purpose?
Well, I talked to Eric Davis about it and he was very upset.
I think I may have discovered it before them.
I asked Eric Davis about it and he said that because this was October the 11th, they still didn't have the film.
So they put something up and they used the film, they used the picture from this fighter article that had appeared in 2015.
And there was a mistake.
And Jim Semivan also.
Told Melinda Leslie, yeah, they made some mistakes that they shouldn't have done this.
So I don't think there was, it was not intentional.
And I'm pretty sure if you look at the video, at no time does Chris Mellon turn around and say, that is the object.
That is the tic tac.
He does not, people are making references to the fact that he actually said, and he never said that.
That picture just appears behind him and he's talking about the incident.
So yeah, that was a mistake.
That's where Jim Semivan told Melinda Leslie, we're going to be very sure before we release something else that these things don't backfire, that we have all this sort of stuff.
But part of this is, What they want, they want the story to fall apart.
This is how the Bob Lazar thing Bob Lazar is missing the two master's degrees.
Bob Lazar knows uh, uh, John Lear.
You have all these sort of things, and that's why they use people like, like, uh, say, um, Dan Smith, who's the spokesman for Ron Pendolfi.
He's not allowed to actually take any tapes from Ron Pendolfi, he's not allowed to produce any emails from Ron Pendolfi.
It's all word of mouth.
And Dan Smith is this guy who talks about eschatology and he thinks he's.
He's the Messiah, and he's here to bring disclosure.
And he's this really sort of oddball character.
That's what they want.
Those are the kind of people to give the story to.
Can you tell the story about the bus and this idea about taking the bus?
Yeah, the disclosure bus.
But he's always talking, if you try to read his stuff on Open Minds, it gives you a headache.
And that's what you want.
You want this stuff to sort of bounce around so you don't end up in a situation like Area 51, where suddenly the thing gets out of control and suddenly everybody realizes this is for real.
And you have Nippon television and you have the European television and everybody's descending on the place.
You want this plausible liability, which is what you've got now.
With the fact that the defense department is saying, Nope, we didn't release this stuff, we didn't release these things.
Elizondo looked like a boob.
I mean, that's what it's like to me.
I mean, that's what they want, that's what they want because if they want it out, they would actually give Elizondo something he can release and say, This is it, this is the actual thing.
They're not giving him anything that's concrete, it's the same plan.
That's what I saw the Tom DeLong thing.
I said, This is the same, they're doing the same thing.
This is the Bill Moore thing, for example.
Let me give you an example, Bill Moore.
Well, I'm going to give you an example with Linda Howe.
1983, Linda Howe goes to see Richard Doty at Kirkland Air Force Base, April of 1983.
Counterintelligence Agents Arrive00:03:24
He sits her down in a chair and he shows her this MJ 12 document.
He says, The government didn't like the documentary you did on Catalan relations.
He's a counterintelligence agent.
He sits her down, he shows her these documents.
What happens with the New York Times article?
Most people don't realize that there are three newspapers that have all done it.
And I've tried to contact all the, I'm probably the only person that's tried to contact all the newspapers.
How did you find out?
Did you discover the story?
Did someone leak the story?
If you listen to Leslie Kane's story of how she was contacted, it's the Linda Howe 1983 story.
She was contacted by U.S. intelligence, people she knew in U.S. intelligence, and they said, We've got a story for you.
We want you to talk to Lou Elizondo.
She goes to Washington to talk to Lou Elizondo.
Now, I don't know who paid for the plane ticket, whether it was U.S. intelligence, whether it was her who paid for the hotel room.
She goes to, to, uh, To Washington.
She talks to Lou Elizondo.
It's October the 4th.
So he's still on, he's still working.
He hasn't quit yet.
He's still an agent.
He's a counterintelligence agent, the same as Richard Doty.
He gives her documents.
He shows her, here's some documents.
Look at these documents.
He gives her documents.
Nobody gave me any documents.
They gave them to Leslie Kaine.
Then he shows her documents that link Senator Reid into the whole thing.
She's got these documents.
She goes back, talks to Ralph Blumenthal.
He pitches the thing to the New York Times, and the New York Times takes it.
If you look at the Washington Post article, they say they've got documents too.
So they produce documents for the New York Times.
They produce documents for the Washington Post, and they spun the whole story.
And yet the documents aren't released.
The Defense Department's backing off the thing, and it looks like it's falling apart.
But every single time they put out a story, they want it to fall apart.
That's what you do.
That's what Valet called the dangling carrot.
You put the carrot out, everybody grabs for the carrot, and they pull the carrot back.
It's the same story all the time.
Where are they heading?
Well, they're doing more.
They're going to do more and more and more of this stuff.
They've got the 24 videos.
They've got these files.
And according to John Greenwald, we will get those 38 technical reports.
We will get the material.
Just because Bob Bigelow owns the contract, the stuff that he produced for the government is still owned by the government.
So according to John Greenwald, all the stuff that was done in that contract is still going to be FOA.
That we can get the contracts and stuff.
So it's going to take a long time.
But as John Greenwald said, it could be five years.
He's actually filed what they call an expedited FOIA, 27 pages long, to try to get himself to the front of the line because he realizes they can drag this thing out forever.
I've actually filed an FOIA, and my FOIA says I want all the FOIAs.
I want to see what the Washington Post asked for, what the New York Times asked for, because they're going to have a lot of inside details that I don't have.
They're going to ask for certain documents that will tell me what's going on.
So, and they want it to be a long process.
One thing that's interesting about all this, well, once we see all these CIA people popping up around the DeLong disclosure thing, that's when we knew the effort was on.
In many cases, the same team was on.
Obama and Private Industry00:15:17
But let's do this.
I'm going to turn things over to Olivia in a minute here.
But thank you, everyone, for being here.
It's Dark Journalist, and I'm here talking with Grant Cameron, going over so many different aspects around disclosure.
We just did the Coast last night with Linda Moulton Howe about the exclusive interview.
That I had with Robert Merritt on February 14th.
And Merritt's story about the time capsule that President Nixon placed in the White House and his confidence that the time capsule is still there and that Nixon wanted to be the disclosure president is supported in many ways by what we've heard about Robert Emmenager's involvement in this documentary and the Republican administration supporting that documentary up to a point, even giving them this Holloman Air Force Base material before yanking it at the last minute.
And we can see when we watch the documentary, it's missing all these kind of crucial.
Points, but there it is.
And the reason it was created in the first place was apparently, you know, Grant called it the most important disclosure case that we've had, which is the most important disclosure effort.
So I think that that's significant.
It took place under Nixon, and we have Merritt sort of finding Nixon in the situation where he's safeguarding the alien disclosure thing through this time capsule for himself and his efforts.
After all, there are many reports that as vice president he ran the program.
To develop Area 51.
So that's, yeah, go ahead.
Can I just add a little thing?
Why this is the most important disclosure?
I didn't actually specify why it's the most important disclosure.
Yes.
The reason it's the most important disclosure is that, as I always point out in my lectures, if you want to disclose, you just put the president out and tell us.
If you want to cover up, you just shut up and quit talking about it.
So they're doing something in between.
They're not doing either of those things.
They're doing this sort of gradual disclosure.
What happens, the Nixon thing is very important because in 1969, the American government shuts down Blue Book.
Right.
We no longer have to put any Air Force guys out to explain UFO sightings.
They're out of the game.
They never have to talk about UFOs again.
And every country in the world has done that.
The British shut down, the Canadians shut down.
They say there's no threat to national security.
We have no evidence of ETs visiting the Earth.
It's a waste of time.
We're going to save money.
We're out of the program.
So in 1969, the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. government never, ever had to talk about UFOs again.
So the embers are sort of dying out in 1972, 1973.
And what do they do?
They come along with a bunch of gas and they start the fire.
So, if you didn't have to talk about it, why would you go to Bob Ammenager and say, We'd like you to do a UFO documentary?
Why would you do that?
You're out of the thing.
Shut up.
You can do black world investigations of UFOs.
This proves that they actually wanted it out.
Otherwise, they would just shut up and they wouldn't have done it.
So, that's why the Ammenager one is the most important because they had actually shut the whole program and they never, ever had to talk about it again.
It's absolutely fascinating.
Stanton Friedman completely agrees with.
That they were preparing for some kind of major disclosure at that period under Nixon during that Watergate sort of 72, 73, before that really broke big.
And who knows in the grand scheme of things what the plan became.
But certainly, this idea of a time capsule is interesting because not only was Merritt such an insider around this whole thing, but the idea that Nixon would be making this effort and giving a copy of the letter to Kissinger, but storing it somewhere in the White House.
It is so interesting because if he wanted to go down in history around this, if he had done all this work setting it up and reignited it after Blue Book got sort of killed, then this would make a lot of sense, which is he's going to preserve it somehow in there.
So if this comes out, he's the disclosure president.
And there are some weird things there about timing because when he says to Merritt in their conversation, Merritt says, Well, when is this going to come out?
How will you know?
And he says, Oh, it'll definitely come out.
It's going to be discovered.
So he has some sort of a A time that he's working with.
There's a timeline that he feels when it's going to come out, and it will vindicate him and all of the work that he did, opening up Russia, opening up China, and he's being undone by Watergate.
So it's pretty fascinating when we look at it in the context of the whole thing.
But you saying that first effort with Emmenager is the most important is interesting to me because I don't think enough investigation around that whole thing has ever been done.
You've done the best on it.
And now I think we're getting some context for the time capsule story by understanding that the Nixon administration was engaged.
In very early UFO disclosure.
Yeah.
And the other thing that I think to remember with the Nixon thing is that when you shut down Blue Book, I think the reason they shut down Blue Book is we know what's going on now.
We've got the sightings, we've got all the stuff.
They have moved this.
One of the rumored stories was that in 69, all they do is move it from the white world to the black world.
And they move the contracts, all the back engineering into private industry.
So you've got control of the story.
You don't need to get sighting reports from people anymore, you don't need any input.
We've got this, but we still have to educate the people.
We still have to, we can't shut it off.
It's the same thing they did when Ron Pandolfi shut down the remote viewing program in 1995.
It wasn't that they didn't believe that remote viewing was, it was, we don't want to do this in the white world anymore.
It was starting to leak.
Jim Mars was going to do a book on this thing.
He had discovered this.
So what you do is you move it into the black world and you can do it.
But the Nixon thing was important because at that point they're trying to educate the people.
They've got the story, they've got it under control, they're doing the engineering and stuff, but you still can't.
Shut off the people.
You still realize sooner or later this thing may get out of control, and you've got to do what the Brookings Institute report said is at some point this is going to come out and the lower civilization could get wiped out.
So you have to do this properly.
So they're going by the book.
They're taking the advice of these.
And I think Bigelow had actually stated there was more than the Brookings Institute.
There were other think tanks who had come to the same conclusion that you've got to sort of gradually leak this stuff out.
Fascinating.
You mentioned something there about Reagan at the end of his administration trying to get this out.
And leaving it as kind of a legacy for the American people.
You think a president, when he's in there and he's worked with this and he understands it, just as he's leaving, he's thinking, I have to do something.
And I'm trying to get into Nixon's head a little bit with this because there's this famous story that I found in a biography of Nixon and Eisenhower where Eisenhower keeps this major time capsule called Project X at his Gettysburg farm.
And I'm wondering if this is what got Nixon into this mindset of I have to leave this legacy.
But when you get into the heads of these presidents, if you think of someone like Nixon, the idea that, you know, like you were saying about Reagan, he wanted to leave this legacy, leave something behind for people to understand, you know, the whole alien issue, to kind of give them that.
Yeah.
I think each president does stuff that tries to move the issue out.
Jimmy Carter had his press secretary go to the FBI.
He had his science advisor go and try to get another Blue Book study going in NASA.
There was a famous story told where he sent the.
This girl went to the CIA with the lawyers to force all the CIA documents, and this girl breaks down crying.
She's so stressed out by the fact that she's under pressure from the White House.
So, Jimmy Carter was doing all this stuff with the thing with Alfred Weber at SRI, where they were going to do this study at SRI.
He was doing that.
Bill Clinton did the thing with the Roswell thing.
People always don't realize with the Roswell thing, they think, oh, it's like, oh, the US Air Force went and did Roswell.
They don't realize the US Air Force did not do Roswell because they didn't have anything better to do.
They needed to spend some money.
They did it because Lawrence Rockefeller went there and he was putting Clinton under great pressure.
And so the Clinton's science advisor had said, Mr. Rockefeller, if this is as deep, and this is in the documents, if this is as deep as you say it is and as widespread as you say it is, we're not going to be able to get to the bottom of this.
Give us one case and we'll investigate that case and then we'll declassify it and then we'll declassify the rest of it.
And that's when Lawrence Rockefeller said, Okay, I want you to do the Roswell case.
And that's why.
Bill Clinton gave a green light, and the Air Force had to go and reinvestigate Roswell in 1993, 1994.
In 1995, Bill Clinton sees the final report and he makes this famous speech in Belfast, Northern Ireland, where he's lighting the Christmas tree, where he has this letter from Ryan, which I could not find this letter.
Ryan, if you're out in the audience tonight, no, as far as I know, a UFO did not crash in Roswell, New Mexico.
But if they did recover alien bodies, they didn't tell me about it either, and I want to know.
And what he's basically saying is that the report, the first Roswell report that cost millions of dollars, Put out by the Air Force didn't talk about the alien bodies.
So in 1997, the Air Force has to go and do a second Roswell report.
They spent $20 million on a second one, and that's when they come up with Chris Dummies.
Chris Dummies here.
And that's to say to the president, here's the answer.
And all of them do.
Like Obama, at the end, two days before Obama leaves the White House, they put these millions of pages of stuff on remote viewing, CIA puts on the internet with UFOs in remote viewing.
In November of 2015, he makes the statement, which I say there's no way.
He could not have known this was going to get picked up.
And that was, he's given this interview to GQ Magazine.
And the guy says to him, Well, if you're the president, you get to see all the secrets.
What's the deal with the secrets?
And Obama starts in on UFOs.
He doesn't have to bring up UFOs.
And Obama brought it up numerous times, almost like he's hinting at it.
He's putting little things out where he says to Shirley McLean, Oh, when I want to know about Area 51, I asked Shirley McLean.
And then he says, You know, I'm probably the first president ever to talk about Area 51 in public.
That's when Area 51 got declassified because Obama talked about it.
And then in this GQ magazine, he says, You know, people always ask me about UFOs and Roswell and aliens.
And I just want to let you know that that top secret stuff isn't as exciting as you think it is.
And the GQ magazine guy totally misses it.
He actually hands it to him.
And so you get this kind of stuff where they're actually doing this kind of stuff.
They can't openly do the thing, but they're trying to push the ball down the field.
And you see with all the presidents, the different things that they're doing.
When you look behind the scenes, you go, Oh, I see what he's doing now.
He's not directly doing it, but he's making a move to push this stuff out.
It looks like Poppy, according to everything that you've said, and this goes along with a lot of things that I've read, which is basically Poppy Bush was the last president that had a handle on the UFO issue.
When you get into Clinton and, well, I guess W, but it doesn't seem like he had a great interest in it, although Cheney is associated with these stories very often.
But it seems like the real power broker on the presidential level that was left is George Bush.
Well, see, I disagree with people on that.
I think they all knew.
I think it's all the plausible deniability.
They want you to think the president's an idiot.
He doesn't know what's going on.
They want you to chase the Wizard of Oz, the cabal, because you're never going to find them.
You're never going to get them because it's not there.
And that's why when Clinton said, Stephen Greer sends these files that when I look at them in the Clinton Library, there are 600 pages of documents that Clinton got from Stephen Greer, this briefing document.
And Stephen says he, there's a briefing thing.
It says right on the front of the page of the thing, President did not read.
And that's the plausible liability thing.
The President got all these documents he didn't read.
But the message comes back from Bill to Stephen Greer, from this friend of Bill, that says, I can't do it, but you can.
And that's the whole thing is that why Hillary Clinton didn't bring up the UFO subject.
She only answered questions.
They want us to do it.
That's why they're moving, what I believe they're doing is they're moving the UFO thing into private industry, into the Bigelow thing.
Then Bigelow is going to do disclosure.
All these guys are retired.
None of them are operational.
So the day before Lou Elizondo joins the thing, he retires.
Steve Justice retires two weeks before.
They're all retired.
They move into private industry.
So Bigelow makes the disclosure.
The government's off the hook.
That's what they're trying to avoid.
That's the thing that they're trying, what I call the high hurdle.
That if the government comes out and says this document's for real, then suddenly you're the president that's standing there.
You've got 3,000 reporters saying there were 10,000 mutilated cattle.
Are you saying you knew what was going on?
There's been millions of people abducted.
That's the kind of stuff, the scenario they don't want.
So they're doing this thing.
They move it into private industry, almost the thing where Bill Clinton says, You can do it, but I can't.
So they want us to do the disclosure and get them off the hook because they're in this very difficult position where once they admit that they knew what was going on, they lose control of the story.
Yeah.
Well, no, I see your point about the presidential part.
However, we've seen over and over again people like Carter, like you were describing.
They're trying to get the power back on the UFO file.
They're trying to get access to the information.
They might have a kind of a general, you know, the titular head of the government, but it doesn't seem like, you know, if we go through the different cases like Kennedy to Carter, I mean, I think they do create this idea of the kind of, you know, the president who's out of the loop for plausible deniability.
However, there are multiple cases of presidents from Eisenhower trying to get that information from the UFO file back.
Okay, but I would differ.
Like the one story that everybody always brings out is the story about Jimmy Carter.
And this is a story that everybody gets it all mixed up.
Jimmy Carter has the briefing from Bush Sr.
Bush Sr. is the VP or he's the CI director for Ford.
And I had a person who interviewed Ford, interviewed Bush Sr.
They both said they had seen the Holloman Air Force Base film.
So what happens is everybody says, well, Bush was CI director under Carter.
Absolutely never happened.
Rosalind Carter said he will not serve a single day under this administration.
They fired him.
So everybody says, oh, he's afraid of Bush.
Bush was this powerful guy.
Jimmy Carter is this weak little guy who couldn't handle it.
And he fired him.
He fired him.
He never served a day.
He was one of the few CIA directors that was not carried on from the previous administration.
So he fires him and he hires Stansfield Turner, who was a Navy buddy of his that he could trust because he didn't trust George Bush.
What happens is in the presidential briefing, what happened is it starts with Truman.
Truman sets up this presidential briefing because when he became president, he didn't know there was an atomic bomb.
He didn't know all this kind of stuff.
And he set up the briefing for the new incoming president so the president would know what was going on when he gets in, all the things that he has to know.
So this briefing is taking place in November of 1976.
And that's when.
Senator Pell Demands Files00:03:14
They asked for the UFO files.
So the story is told and is told by Danny Sheehan, by Marsha Smith, who was doing two classified studies for Jimmy Carter.
One was on UFOs, one was on extraterrestrials.
Danny Sheehan said he saw both of the classified reports that went to Jimmy Carter.
One said that we have between two and six extraterrestrial races visiting.
UFOs are real, the whole thing.
But what happens in the briefing is he says the story is told.
Oh, he asked for the UFO files and he's told he can't have them.
It's not what happened.
Jimmy Carter said the story was.
He asked for the files, and Jimmy Carter says, Curiosity is not sufficient.
Need to know if you want those files, you have to go.
So he didn't refuse, he told him where to go.
He says, You go to the House Science and Technology Committee for those files.
Bush talking to Carter.
Carter, so the top secret Roswell files are not going to be in the House Science and Technology Committee.
What he was asking for, Jimmy Carter said in his promise, and we've actually got on tape, his promise was.
If I become president, I will release all the UFO material except for stuff on national security weapons.
So basically, he's got the top secret stuff, the weapon stuff.
It's all tied into nuclear weapons, it's all tied into developing weapons and stuff like that.
So he's got that already.
He's asking for the files.
He promised the people the files that weren't national security.
So you asked Bush for those files.
Bush said, if you want those files, the unclassified, the sort of lower classified stuff, that the House would have.
But they would not have the Roswell file.
And I'll give you another story that shows that Jimmy Carter knew.
There's a story that was told.
Senator Claiborne Pell was big time into UFOs.
He was into paranormal phenomena.
There's a story told that Claiborne Pell set up a meeting for John Alexander and Dr. Scott Jones.
Dr. Scott Jones was the guy that went with Rockefeller to brief Clinton's science advisor, set up a meeting for them to talk to Jimmy Carter.
Now, Jimmy Carter is at the Carter Foundation years after he retired.
The story that was told was that they didn't get a reply.
So Scott Jones phones up the Carter Center and he said, Oh, by the way, we got.
Uh, Claiborne Pell, who was the ranking Democratic senator at the time, and Carter's a Democrat, the ranking guy sends this request for this meeting.
He said, We got this request, you got this request from Senator Claiborne Pell for this meeting.
Uh, we'd like to know when we're going to get a reply.
The answer was, There will be no reply.
Jimmy Carter is not going to sit down with John Alexander and Scott Jones and talk UFOs because he's off the record.
I, even now, Carter's saying, I don't believe in their extraterrestrials.
I think it was something from a From a base, there's a they were doing some testing at a base.
He's totally backed away from the whole UFO thing and is running for cover.
And so, I say that that's the game they have to play.
And that's why I say, like, now you have this Rick Dearborn.
We've actually known the guy inside the White House who's actually the guy who's the point man on this whole operation.
And again, Jimmy Trump, who's out of the loop, we can't even ask him a question, right?
Carter Refuses UFO Meeting00:11:46
Right, exactly.
And I'll point out there since you mentioned Pell, is that everyone knows that Pell Grant, and that's where.
That comes from.
He's the senator, former senator from Rhode Island.
So it is interesting when you track these people, and he has a very interesting history also.
Okay, Olivia, you're up.
We're going to take some questions here, and I'm going to turn the floor over to you.
Okay, first question Tim Taylor, Mr. Cameron, I have enjoyed your discussion thus far, but the internet has a burning question that needs to be answered.
What type of caffeinated beverage do you consume?
Drink coffee, Grant?
McDonald's coffee.
I always make the joke that Chris Bletzo, the famous experiencer, and I were McDonald's coffee guys.
Okay.
I'm going to go straight into kind of the overarching question here.
Ron White, the UFO phenomenon is such a bunch of dots that are there to be connected.
The problem is that no one can seem to connect all of the dots.
Yes, the phenomenon exists, but what it is is anyone's guess.
What do you think it is?
Top secret Canadian government document.
I bring it up all the time.
Everybody seems to ignore it.
Canadian government in 1950 went through classified channels through the Canadian embassy.
The military liaison's name was Arnold Wright, went to the Defense Research and Development Board, which was in charge of the atomic bomb, the hydrogen bomb, run by Vannevar Bush at one point, and said, What's the deal with flying saucers?
And the top secret Canadian government memo, declassified in 1978, the Canadian government does not deny it, said, We were told through classified channels.
The following things flying saucers exist, it's the most highly classified subject in the United States.
There's a small group headed by Dr. Vandavar Bush who's trying to figure out what's going on.
It's of tremendous significance to the Americans, and mental phenomena may be involved.
So, we've known since 1950, basically, the core story.
Wow, great!
Uh, it's a great answer on that, and it's a good point, too.
Uh, the Wilber Smith information is fascinating and I think needs more exploration.
I know Paul Hellier tried to bring some of that out.
Uh, what else you got?
Um God, there's so many places we could go.
It's okay.
Try to get what you think of the best.
You have the good intuition there.
Go ahead.
Just go ahead.
Just start with any of them.
I like one of those.
Well, I know that we hit on this last time, but Mathis Matheson, ask if they can reflect on the consciousness aspect.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that is a whole show in itself.
And that is Grant Cameron's thing.
You know, Grant's come to the conclusion that most of the UFO phenomena is about consciousness.
It's that's what it comes down to.
That's the whole bottom line.
That's what Ben Rich said.
John Alexander has said that.
Jack Sarfati has said that.
The Canadian government said that in 1950.
Dr. Eric Walker from Penn State University told us that unless you understand about ESP and how it works, you will not be taken in.
14% of all experiencers claim that you fly the flying saucer with your mind.
It's when it comes down to an idea about is the world.
Made of nuts and bolts or is it made of consciousness?
And I say it's made of consciousness.
The material world is secondary to consciousness.
Absolutely.
Okay, move on.
Aaron White, ask Grant about asking Dick Cheney about UFOs.
Yes, asking Dick Cheney about UFOs.
Yeah, Dick Cheney, that was the thing where we're about to ask another guy.
I can't talk about it, but we may know by the end of this month in San Francisco, we may be able to reveal the second guy.
What I say is if you get a high level person, we've got another high level person.
The question you want to ask them is not Do you believe in UFOs?
Have you seen a UFO?
It's a total waste of time.
They're going to walk around the question.
The only question you want to ask is Did you get briefed?
Did someone give you a classified briefing, walk into your office, swear you to secrecy, and tell you what the real story is, how the dots all get connected?
So, Dick Cheney had been chief of staff for President Ford.
He had been Secretary of Defense under Bush Sr., and he was the vice president when I talked to him.
So, the question I asked him was Mr. Cheney, in all your jobs in government, have you ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs?
If so, when was it, and what were you told?
And he hesitated because he didn't expect the question, I'm sure of it.
And then he said, If I had been briefed on that subject, it would probably be classified, and I wouldn't be talking about it.
Well, that's the first honest answer he ever gave.
It's amazing.
Okay, what else?
Okay, I've got a bunch of great questions from Alien Protocol.
Yes.
Does Grant know of any government concerted effort to communicate peacefully with ETs?
Peaceful efforts on behalf of the government to ETs.
Well, there's a lot of stuff going on with experiences.
That would be something I'd be working on in the next year or two.
But you have Chris Bletso, who would be one where the government is interacting with Chris Bletso, and Chris Bletso is interacting.
With the beings.
So you have these kind of things.
That's why the consciousness thing is important that you'll see part of the program that To the Stars has, except it's sort of a more top secret.
That's what Jim Semivan told us.
It's not really connected to To the Stars, it's the one that works with the experiencers.
And the experiencers are the ones that are interacting with the intelligence behind the phenomena.
You can look at all the videos you want, at all the documents you want.
You're never going to learn anything.
It's not until you actually deal with the experiencers.
Who are actually having this mental interaction dealing with the being.
So they are working on this aspect of the phenomena dealing with the experiences because that's where all the answers are.
Does Grant believe they are ETs or time travelers?
I used to believe they're ETs.
I now think it's going to be, it's all going to go back to consciousness.
It's all the same thing.
It's all one.
Everything is the same.
I've just got a book coming out on music and ETs, and it's all the same thing.
It's all consciousness, and there's different levels of consciousness.
There's different levels of beings.
You go up through whatever, and they're just at a higher level of less dense, higher frequency, whatever you want.
So it all ties in.
So when you look at the CIA, they've always called it phenomenology.
That would show you that we say that, okay, there's ETs, there's remote viewing, there's near death experiences.
It's all the same thing.
It's all this consciousness stuff.
So, it's going to have an ET component to it, but it's going to be much more complex.
I'd say it's much less physical than you think it is, and it's much more spiritual than you think it is.
Would you describe in detail the Mount Shasta UFO?
And could the Mount Shasta portal actually be a beamed hologram?
That's the book I would like to do, except I keep getting dragged into this disclosure rat hole.
But I had an encounter.
I got my second message from an alien, which had to do with an event that appeared.
Counted Mount Shasta, August the 18th.
There were two what are called antennas.
And in the To the Stars people who are working with the experiencers in To the Stars, they also refer to antennas.
Certain people have an antenna.
They're able to communicate with this other phenomena, intelligence, whatever.
And I got the message that there would be an event at 9 33 on August the 19th, what they call the program sighting.
I was there at 9 33.
This thing occurred over my head.
I was sort of.
With how these people were able to predict when this event was going to take place, this UFO event.
And I started to interview people who are involved in what are called Zendras.
In our world, we call them portals, but they actually have this thing with Zendras where they're actually able to open Zendras, which are interdimensional bubbles created by the intelligence.
And I interviewed a number of witnesses in two different events.
In both events, there were nine to ten witnesses.
They were inside this interdimensional bubble called a Zendra.
I've got these all on camera.
Most of them are on my YouTube channel.
And I asked them, What did you see?
And they described this 10 foot tall alien being.
They described exactly the same thing, what he was wearing.
The Zen thing is interesting.
We're going to, we should do a show.
We will do a show just about that because I think there's two interesting things there.
And if you do have the videos up, it's White House UFO, the name of the UFO, the YouTube channel where it is.
But what I find intriguing is that so many of those cases come out of South America.
So we're definitely going to do one just on that because it's intriguing.
Go ahead.
Yeah, that is the important story.
I say in 42 years, that is the most important story I've ever run across.
It's a book I hope to have out maybe in October.
I'm going back to Mount Shasta.
In August, there's an event there.
In September, there's an event there.
I'm hoping I get to actually see an alien at the event.
But I'm going to go through these Zendras.
There are hundreds of them.
And in some of the incidents, there have been 125 people go through these Zendras.
Really not known.
It's a Latino story, which is why nobody knows about it.
It's all in Spanish.
But the most important story I have run across in 42 years, without a doubt.
Yeah, fascinating.
There is a great person out there, Metafaith.
And thank you.
It's great to have you here, Meta.
And if you feel like asking a question, please fire away.
But what have you got?
What's next?
Tim Taylor, experiencers, is there any commonality between them?
Any common demographics?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, this is if you go to the free survey, well, hang on.
I was just writing them down for a lecture.
78% say they're getting telepathic communication, 80% have had out of body experiences, 37% of all.
People who've interacted with the phenomena say they've had a near death experience, which is over five times the national average.
76% have seen ghosts.
14%, the one that interests me the most, is the people who have flown the ship.
And I think Tim Taylor knows Chris Bletso, who, when I heard he'd flown the ship, he's a good friend of mine, I said, hang on.
And I gave him for five minutes, I said, Chris, go step by step.
How do you fly a flying saucer?
And 14% of all experiences say they've flown the flying saucer, and they will all describe the fact that you become one with the craft.
The craft is alive.
You use your mind to fly the craft.
So you have all these mental things that are with experiencers.
Only 9% of experiencers, maybe even less than that now, think that ETs are evil.
So you have all these people saying there's these evil aliens coming to eat us or whatever is going on.
I say 9% isn't zero, but it's getting pretty close.
There's a lot of, if you go to the free survey and look at their material, you will see very direct patterns.
50% of all experiencers either have been cured.
Or have cured people.
They're psychic.
Almost every experiencer has got psychic abilities, a tremendous number of things.
And this is 4,000 experiencers.
This is a lot of data.
And you see very, very clear patterns that show distinct things that we should be looking at rather than watching lights in the sky.
Psychic Abilities Among Experiencers00:07:42
I think the psychic aspect is really important to focus on.
And if you go just with a nuts and bolts approach, you'll never get any real answers on it.
Although there's plenty of.
Interesting data there to study.
One quick thing I want to mention is there's a 1977 disclosure part of one of your lectures where you talk about this U.S. News and World Report quote where they say, before the year is out, the government, perhaps the president, is expected to make what are described as unsettling disclosures about UFOs.
Such revelations based on information from the CIA would be a reversal of official policy that in the past has downgraded UFO incidents.
What is the background on that article?
Is there anything to that?
Well, that was the idea that Jimmy Carter was making a move.
They had heard the rumors that Jimmy Carter was doing with his press secretary.
Jimmy Carter made about five or six different people.
He would never directly hands on, but he had all his people doing this kind of stuff.
There were also rumors back in 74 and 75 about disclosures from the same sort of stuff coming out in U.S. media outlets that were describing disclosures.
So the Bob Ebeneger thing was not isolated, it was being described in a number of Uh, UFO books and stuff, people were hearing these rumors almost like now you're hearing these rumors about the fact that the government's about to drop this thing, they're doing this disclosure thing.
All these people are coming out.
70s was between 74 and 77, was the same sort of atmosphere where people were having all these stories that the government was about to disclose.
It's fascinating, uh, and it is interesting if we look at that period, the 70s with close encounters, the culture is getting ready for it.
In Search of comes up, uh, during the 70s, there's a number of 70s movies.
There's the Betty and Barney Hill story, it is a TV movie in that period.
So, absolutely, they're preparing the culture there.
And Bill Coleman, that Bob met with in the Pentagon, actually does a series in 78, 77, 78, I think it was, called UFO.
And it was like the X Files, but what it was, it was the carrot thing.
So, you do the show, it was about a UFO sighting from Project Blue Book.
And it would all look very great, whatever.
And at the very end of the show, they would debunk it.
So that's what they did.
For two years, he ran this show.
And this is, again, I just call this a disclosure thing where you put it out and you pull it back.
Okay, so we have time for just a couple more questions.
And people have asked some questions about the time capsule and some of the Nixon disclosures.
There is a new video that's going to be coming out.
I'm going to do a new one for next week with updates, and we'll keep you posted on everything that's happening there.
Pretty much my appearance on Coast yesterday and the video that we did last night brings us up to date.
On that, but certainly Merritt's story.
One of the things I wanted to mention is that Merritt has distributed the information to a very tight circle of a couple of people so that the information isn't going to go away, as it were.
Okay, so find the best way to do it.
Okay, alien protocols again.
Grant, if I had UFO material and evidence, who should I send it to?
That's a really good question.
We had a bunch, we tried to go to the New York Times.
They wouldn't buy some of our stories, we had some pretty heavy stuff.
They're the ones that everybody seems to pay attention to.
If you can get the New York Times to take it, this Blumenthal guy is coming out with a book on John Mack.
He's very much into the subject.
I don't know what his background is.
Very much he helped write the article.
The New York Times would be the place to go.
If you can sell it to the New York Times, that is where everybody pays attention.
That's when they paid attention to the stars.
And the other one they paid attention when Hillary Clinton, when they wrote the article on Hillary Clinton with the UFO disclosure on May 10th of 2019.
2016, the very next day, there were two questions asked in the White House press room, and a couple days later, another one.
The New York Times seems to be able to initiate the attention of the government.
Fascinating.
Okay, Kids Future.
Does Grant have any info on Nibiru?
I think he just interviewed Michael Lee Hill.
Yeah, I just interviewed Michael.
We're putting that up on.
I'm not an Anunnaki guy.
I have enough trouble figuring out what I'm doing now.
We did an interview with Michael Lee Hill.
Michael Lee Hill, the reason I actually wanted to interview him is he was contacted by Bob Bigelow.
He was part of the program.
Bob Bigelow came to him and he tells the story about what Bob's investigator told him about what was going on, the connection between his sightings over Michigan, the Anunnaki, and the fact that.
The Bigelow, the Skinwalker is all tied in.
So you'll have to listen to Michael Lee Hill.
But he gets into the Anunnaki, which I'm not an expert on.
But it's an interesting story that he seems to be taken very seriously by Bob Bigelow's investigation team.
Wow.
I do want to point out that the hopeful volunteerist is out there.
And I know that you tried to ask a question last time.
We've interacted before.
So if you have a question, pop it up there.
We're going to take just a couple more questions and then we're going to wrap it up.
Really emphasize to people is that with all the craziness that has been going on with YouTube, make sure that you do, you know, if you're subscribed to White House UFO or if you're subscribed to Dark Journalist, to seek out the website, you know, so to go to darkjournalist.com, sign up for the newsletter for updates for these things so that, you know, we've been hearing about all these YouTube channels that go down that are dealing with controversial information.
So make sure that you're dealing directly.
And in Grant's case, it is presidentialufos.com, isn't it?
Yeah, although I really don't, we're going to try to rebuild the website.
I don't put that much on that site anymore.
And I was also convinced the YouTube way is the way to go, is that most people have like 15 minutes as they go to work and they want to watch a video for 15 minutes.
They really don't want to read a book.
And so the younger people have convinced me this is the way to go.
So I'm spending a lot more time just putting up little short videos rather than lengthy articles that nobody reads.
Good, good.
Well, you know, you have the time here when we have it and people can really get that full picture.
And that's what we do at Dark Journalist.
But I think the little short updates are a good format for you, actually.
Although I know you're always working on another book anyway.
All right.
And this is important, like with yours.
I mean, just to consider that when I do an interview with you or you do interviews, I mean, you look at the numbers that you attract.
I mean, you're like talking to stadiums full of people.
I've always been very disappointed in lecturing to UFO conferences that you go into a UFO conference, you work on a lecture for two months, you go in there, and there's like 75 people, and those are the only people that ever hear that lecture.
And I always thought, this is such a total waste of my time.
I mean, it doesn't matter.
The YouTube is the way to go.
You take a look at some of the numbers that if you get into a hot, Topic.
There's a lot of people watching.
You are changing consciousness, and that's what it's all about.
Absolutely.
We have a huge crowd tonight.
I think either our biggest or our second biggest crowd ever.
So, absolutely.
I totally agree.
All right.
We're going to take the final two questions and we'll wrap it up.
But it's been fantastic.
This is an incredible overview and ties so well into if we're trying to find the truth around the Nixon administration and some of the things that Robert Merritt has brought forward.
Now, there's much more of a foundation.
To look at it, you know, because of the Emma Nager video, because of Grant's working knowledge of that, we have a better foundation.
And so, you know, we understand the conditions under which the time capsule was placed.
It sort of supports Merritt's story so well.
Okay, so I'm going to leave it to you.
No Intention for Full Disclosure00:04:00
So, Free Soul, do you believe the Charles Hall story about the Tall Whites and Ray Daw?
And what does Grant know about Phil Schneider?
Well, let's do the Tall Whites, Grant, because that's an interesting one, and I've never been able to figure it out.
So, what do you got?
I've never really studied the story.
It's one of these things, like a single whistleblower story.
It's very hard to sort of determine.
What I was told through Chris Bledsoe was that it was for real.
And Chris Bledsoe, to me, whatever Chris Bledsoe says, you can take it to the bank.
So he knows something I don't know.
That's all I can really say is if Chris Bledsoe says there's reality to that story, there's reality to that story.
But I've never studied it myself.
Certainly, Charles seems like an honest guy, and his story is fascinating.
Okay, what else you got?
Okay, so Cece Jarvis, please ask Grant if he has heard of Alien Mountain north of Kamloops.
No.
No.
I've never heard of that one either.
That's a tricky one.
We've got the Nixon Pyramid from North Dakota.
We've got that one.
Never heard of Alien Mountain.
Okay, but we'll take a better final question.
What do you got?
Okay, Matt Lacasse.
Did I already ask this one?
Do they have ETs hidden somewhere still?
Do they have ETs hidden somewhere still?
That's a great question.
In your opinion, Grant, do we still have, like we did in the 80s, a live ET somewhere?
Well, Melinda Leslie, if you listen to Melinda Leslie, her evidence, the Milab evidence, indicates they may be working with them.
The live alien story there were three EBs one, two, and three.
The third one left in the 1990s.
That's that story.
Dead ones for sure.
We have them, and apparently they're all over the place.
Area 51, Kennedy was taken to an Air Force base in Florida and shown bodies.
You have the Nixon story.
So a lot of dead bodies.
But in terms of live ones, I sort of.
Think that the aliens really wouldn't want to deal with us because they're really not on the same sort of plane.
They're at a different vibrating level.
And I can't really see them working with us because basically, like with the Nimitz thing, we tried to shoot the thing down.
I really can't see that we're interacting with these people.
We're still doing a kind of clunky military approach to them.
And I can definitely see the point on that.
CC Jarvis, the thing about the Alien Mountain, if you have something on that, you can email it to info at darkjournalist.com because I do want to hear about what it is.
We just don't have a good answer for you on that.
Okay, Olivia, you're up.
We'll do the final question.
Well, here's the ultimate question.
The Car Truth Report.
When do you think disclosure will happen?
Many, many years.
One question Chris Bletzel, there's a guy, his name escapes me, a Nassau guy, Hal Povenmeyer, gave a date of 2025.
I think the longer they take to do this, the better they think it's going to be.
They're going to drag this thing out for a long time because it's always the fear of once it starts to unravel.
Can you control the story?
Are you going to get blamed for all the stuff that happened?
So, uh, I they're doing to me disclosure.
If you look it up in the dictionary, says, uh, to reveal, they are revealing more and more and more all the time.
It's a gradual process, but as far as I'm concerned, they have no absolute intention of full disclosure.
If they did, they'd stand the president up, they would allow the president to answer the question that was asked last month or two months ago about, uh, To Donald Trump, they would answer the question.
They're not answering the question.
They are not interested in disclosure.
That is not in the playbook anytime in the future.
Fascinating.
The hopeful volunteers did show up on the chart and she asked, Do you think aliens live by voluntary cooperative interaction?
That's one of the things I say is one of the 64 reasons they're not going to disclose.
Why Aliens Won't Talk00:04:38
That if you sort of understand alien mentality, you realize that they don't have any designer clothes, they don't have any gold, they don't have any thing, they don't have any poor people, they don't have any medical problems.
Basically, they are not communists, but they're pretty close to it.
If you think that we have trouble with Mexicans and those types of aliens, the philosophy of these people is you put in what you can contribute and you take out only what you need.
This is so un American.
It's so anti capitalist.
The aliens are the farthest thing from capitalists in the world.
That is one of the big things that is really going to get ugly if it actually is disclosed.
Because if you look, they have nothing physical about them at all.
If you look at the craft, you look at what they're doing.
They don't seem to eat.
They don't seem to have sex.
They don't have chandeliers.
They don't have, you know, leather furniture.
They don't have designer clothes.
There's really nothing physical at all.
There, it's, it's, I guess, Vilas Boas had sex in the 50s.
So maybe, maybe some of them do.
Yeah, absolutely.
Grant, incredible information and such a wide range.
You know, it's funny because people will say, well, in the UFO field, you can't get good stuff or whatever.
Grant's information is top notch.
You're the best research guy out there.
And I really appreciate you coming on and giving us this real background on the 70s, 90s.
And into the 2000s disclosure.
It's a crucial history and a crucial foundation.
And people can, of course, find your work at White House UFO on YouTube.
And we hope to talk to you soon.
Thank you.
I appreciate your interest and I appreciate the questions.
You have some knowledgeable people who have asked some very good, insightful questions.
Thanks.
We have a great audience for sure.
And they got a great show with Grant tonight.
Thank you, everyone.
It's fantastic to have everyone here.
This is Friday night, but this has been a crucial week of getting the story out.
And covering everything about Merritt's revelations, as well as everything about the time capsule and the updates there from the letter of Douglas Caddy to the National Archives.
Now, next week, I will be on Phenomenon Radio with Linda Moulton Howe, going deeper into detail, and we'll do a special video next week.
And both Linda and Catherine Austin Fitz are coming on the show.
So it's going to be a powered up couple of weeks.
And I'm really glad that everyone's going to be on board for that.
Olivia, you did fantastic.
Do you have any last questions?
That was chaos.
That's more like it.
Of course, Olivia handled everything very well.
It might be a good idea to mention the documentary again so people can find it on YouTube.
Yeah, that's a good point, actually.
Well, Grant mentioned the second name, which I wasn't familiar with, but the first name was UFOs Past, Present, and Future, right?
That's not the way it's on the internet.
It's on UFOs That Has Begun.
The other one, it's not on the internet as far as I know.
But UFOs, it has begun.
It's the same one.
They just added the cattle mutilation stuff in 1979.
Yeah, right.
Absolutely.
And that's the one I've seen, though, because it's Jacques Valet, is in that one.
Yeah, it's the same one.
It's just an updated version.
They actually put it up three times 75, 76.
Then they redid it in 79.
So I guess they wanted the audience increased or replay it.
They were asked to replay it three times.
So it came out three times, not just once.
Amazing.
And it's quite a document, I will say, for that period.
And just to understand the background behind it, giving us that whole thrust behind the Nixon disclosure post Blue Book, which is also quite the mystery.
And I think one of the best points that you made here tonight is why did they reignite that fire?
We might get some of those answers in Merritt's time capsule disclosure.
That might be what the missing piece is there.
It could very well be.
Did you have something?
Yeah.
Could you show that picture again from the museum?
Actually, the one of the aliens.
Oh, okay.
So that's the UFO's past, present, and future with Emmenegger.
Um, and the one with the museum, which I got, that's directly from Grant's lecture, which was a great lecture on different stages of disclosure.
And uh, I'll put up a link to that actually because I got so much from that.
But that's the picture.
So, what did you want to say, Olivia?
Uh, they were just confused.
Could you explain that to the audience a little bit?
Yeah, yeah.
The one is from the documentary, and the other one is from a British museum.
And you can see the braiding in the hair, the long nose, and they even have the staff, it's holding a staff.
The Missing Time Capsule Piece00:06:05
In both.
And that's where Michael Luckman had come to me and said, This is a hoax.
They made this whole thing up.
And so I asked Bob about it.
And he said, Well, that was Shardle's version of what he had seen.
And that was the whole idea.
It's fascinating to me that there's the Sumerian theme that comes out there.
And then in 76, you got the 12th planet with Sitchin and all that.
There's some kind of a tie that's going on with Sumerian.
And I don't know if it's an engineered thing or if there is a genuine link there that they're trying to point out, but it is interesting.
Yeah.
Grant, fantastic.
And I hope you have a great night.
We're going to talk to you soon, though, because there's so much going on and we have so many good topics to go over with you.
So keep up the great work.
I'm going to be watching your channel for all the exciting stuff you have coming up.
Tell us again where you're going to be in San Francisco and when.
March.
It's the weekend of March 23rd, 24th.
Melinda and I are going to go through a replay.
She has actually interacted with a lot.
You're familiar.
She did the interview with Jim Semivan.
And what I didn't realize is that she's done this for like 30 years and she's interacted with a lot of the Avery characters.
I always make the joke I stay one step removed from my victim.
I really don't interact with anybody.
And I just sort of sit on the sidelines and listen to what everybody says.
Melinda has interacted.
And for the first time, she is going to talk about all the key players, who they were, and what they told her.
And what she's basically going to say is that she was told.
That there are people who are manipulating the field.
And the idea is they are there to spin the story, make it go in the direction they want, and to keep you away from classified material, which is basically the same thing I've said on my 30 years of research.
So I didn't know she'd done this.
So we're going to do this joint lecture where she's going to go through all the people she talked to, and some of the people she's going to out some people that are researchers, who they were, who she talked to, how she interacted with these people.
And then I'm going to do the latest to Tom DeLong.
Thing how it fits in, so she does the first 25 years, and I'm going to do the last five years.
And it all ties together.
We're talking the same characters.
So, whenever she sees my stuff, she tells people, This is your homework, watch Grant's thing.
This is the way it works because she discovered exactly what I discovered.
And I just didn't know that she'd worked on this as long as I have.
She just kept very quiet about the fact that she and she's actually interacted with these people, which is one step removed from me.
It's great.
The combination, I'm going to look forward to that actually.
And Melinda does great work combined with the stuff that you're finding out.
I think it's going to be excellent.
That's in San Francisco.
What's the date on it?
It's the weekend of, I'm not sure, 23rd, 24th, 25th.
It's the Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Steve Bassett's going to be there.
Danny Sheehan is going to be speaking as well.
Danny Sheehan is going to give his version.
He knows what's going on with Melinda, with me.
He's going to give the background because, as you know, he worked on Ron Contra and stuff.
And he's going to give you the background to the stars, how it works in terms of what's actually going on in the background because he's dealt with these people.
He's dealt with these black ops operations.
So he's going to give a lecture, and Steve Bassett, Melinda, and I.
And it's all on this operation, what we've been talking about tonight.
The whole weekend is going to be on this.
Sheehan always does incredible work, too.
He's that deep state knowledge.
Olivia?
Sorry, there was one last question from E.T. DeSoto.
Sure.
Can you really ask really quick when he thinks the next New York Times article will come out, as Melinda said, probably before March?
No, it's interesting.
I think Grant said it was all that he knew was it was going to be on a Sunday, and they didn't specify.
Well, there's a major event going to happen on a Sunday.
Okay.
There's a major event.
It's not a newspaper article.
It's another event and will happen on a Sunday.
I was told January, but it's again, it's the same sort of thing.
It's like whether they're dragging this thing out on purpose or whether it's like Jim Semivan says that they want to make sure they get it right this time when they come out.
But for a year, there were all these things that everybody thought Tom DeLong was making this up.
It's all garbage.
And then suddenly it came out.
It's the same sort of thing.
Like Jim Semivan told us it would be out by the end of the month.
Lessie Kane just did an article or an interview about.
Two weeks ago, and she said she can just confirm the fact that she's working on an article.
I asked the Washington Post, I asked Politico, who were the other ones that did the article on exactly the same morning coincidence, coincidence.
And they won't talk to me whether they're working on another article.
But the New York Times did state that it was one of the biggest circulations they have ever had.
So you can bet they're doing another article.
And that was confirmed.
That's why I did the interview with Michael Lee Hill.
He confirmed that he was interviewed by the New York Times.
Now, it wasn't Leslie, it was another person at the New York Times.
Who is working on the Bob Bigelow connection?
So, you're going to see articles, but I don't think they really are in a hurry to get this stuff out.
They realize that it's a slow sort of process and they mostly want to get it.
They're manipulating it, they're making it go down a certain route.
They want to make sure it's done right rather than done fast.
Because if they wanted to do it fast, they could drop all the videos at one time, they could drop all the documents at one time, they could tell us what's going on with the experiences, they could do all the four different types of medals or whatever they have.
They're not.
It's this gradual drip, drip, drip.
That's part of the play.
That's part of the game.
Fascinating.
Where is Grant going to be lecturing in San Francisco?
The information is what is the name of the lecture in San Francisco?
The place?
That's UFOCon.
If you look up, it's a California UFOCon.
It's run by Lorian Fenton.
Right, yeah.
UFOCon, and you'll see all the people there.
Upcoming UFOCon in San Francisco00:00:59
Fantastic.
Great to have everyone here.
Of course, To keep updated, go to darkjournalist.com, sign up for the free newsletter.
So, all those shows we have coming up, you know when they're going to hit, and all the rest of it.
White House UFO is the YouTube channel for Grant.
Follow Grant's information, you're going to get the best stuff there.
And he's a major source for me and the work that I do.
And I really appreciate it, Grant.
And we'll have you back soon.
Okay, thanks.
And just one last thing to remember Melinda had said that Jim Semivan and Hal Put Off watch all my updates.
So, they're watching you too.
Now we're talking.
That's a good way to end a Friday night.
Grant, fantastic.
I really appreciate it.
And Olivia, what can I say?
Thank you.
Thank you, everyone.
You're a great question tonight and a great audience.
We could have gotten to more of them, but next week we will.