Dr. Joseph P. Farrell returns to dissect a post-war Nazi super state, arguing 3D printing and the black budget fund covert operations from Argentina to North America. He claims Martin Bormann survived to lead a network involving IG Farben successors that conspired against JFK to protect UFO files and dismantle the CIA. Farrell links Kennedy's assassination to threats against hidden financial systems and Gladio operations, suggesting unfinished WWII business drove the event. Ultimately, this narrative posits that global power struggles are rooted in clandestine alliances rather than standard geopolitical conflicts. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
Text
Dr. Farrell Returns to Finish the Trilogy00:02:00
Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
Today we're excited to have Dr. Joseph P. Farrell back on the show to finish what we started in our last interview.
Now, Dr. Farrell's fascinating trilogy of books outlines a vast history of hidden agendas and secret warfare.
The series culminates with the classic book Covert Wars and the Clash of Civilizations.
Now, I want to take a moment to thank everyone for your excellent response to our previous show with Dr. Farrell.
In part two, we're going to delve deeply into the enigma of a post war Nazi super state.
Advanced technology weapons, the black budget, and an ominous ET presence.
Now, Dr. Farrell's research on the breakaway group inside the national security state is a vital piece of a much larger puzzle of who is running the world and why are they doing what we're seeing.
Are you ready for some answers?
Here we go.
Dr. Joseph P. Farrell, Breakaway 2.0, ET Wars, the black budget, and the Nazi super state.
A little saucer came from, I say little saucer, it was a saucer, came flying over their heads, put down three little landing gear, and landed right out on the dry lake bed.
And they picked up their cameras and started over toward it, filming as they went.
And when they got in fairly close to it, it lifted up, put the gear back in the wheel wells, tipped up, and took off at a great rate of speed.
If you don't consider the black budget, if you don't consider this hidden system of finance, which was set up to deal with the UFO, then you're missing.
Over half of the financial picture.
That money far exceeds any covert operation.
I mean, we're dealing with billions, if not trillions.
Joseph, it's great to have you back on the show.
German Industrial Production Under Speer00:02:52
I guess picking up where we left off last time, I wanted to ask you about this new technology that we're seeing everywhere called 3D printing.
Now, it seemed to just arrive one day out of the blue, and it's quite an innovation.
But how does it fit into this idea that the breakaway group is sort of making careful preparations for dealing with this ET presence that's out there?
And why 3D printing?
Well, my take is that we are looking at a technology, I think, that was developed in the black world.
Okay.
So the real question that one has to ask is why is it being pushed now?
Which it clearly is.
And this is going to sound perhaps a bit alarmist.
Vote for it.
That's all right.
But, you know, I tend to think in situations like this in military terms.
And I'm thinking Albert Speer, Reichsrüstungsminister under Hitler.
He was the architect.
He was the architect and then later armaments minister.
All right.
And Speer, when he became Reich armaments minister in 1943, taking over from Fritz Toth, he was the architect.
An interesting name in German because Tote means death.
Oh, there you go.
You know, you've got to admire that little German sense of humor there.
But anyway, Speer took over, and, you know, the Allies are just bombing the daylights out of the German industrial plant.
So what Speer did is very interesting.
He dispersed the manufacturing in Germany, put much of it underground, but much of it just dispersed in very small shops that weren't these big, huge.
You know, Ruhr Valley industrial plants.
Right.
And they were producing so much at the end of the war modularly.
They were producing, you know, those modern Type 21 U boats, for example, inland in sections and then shipping them to the ports where they'd just be slammed together real fast and you'd have a U boat.
So, in other words, he dispersed the manufacturing.
And interestingly enough, Speer in 1944, in August, I think, of 1944, had at the height of the Allied bombing campaign in Europe, which was also in August of 1944, German industrial production under Speer in August of 1944, using these methods, was the highest it had ever been at any point in the war.
Dispersed Manufacturing and Hidden Military Purposes00:05:35
Got it.
There were tens of thousands of aircraft produced.
They didn't have the pilots for them, but they produced a lot of aircraft.
Tanks, you know, he was standardizing German tank production.
So, in other words, he achieved an enormous feat.
The strategy worked.
Yeah, the strategy worked very well, you know.
So I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, well, why 3D printing?
I think it comes out of the black world.
And I think there's two agendas here, to be quite honest.
I think the first part of the agenda is to retrench manufacturing into North America.
Okay.
And the reason why 3D printing is tailor made for this, to get everybody using it, you know, and in the long term, expanding the capability of the technology that's available publicly.
It is to get people accustomed to using it and producing things.
And what this will do is it will dramatically decrease distribution of goods and services in this country.
That will bring down the price of labor.
So, in other words, we're looking also at a deflationary trend.
Yeah.
And that's not what the standard economic models are predicting and haven't been predicting.
Yeah, all the pundits are on a totally different page.
All the pundits are on the dollar's going to collapse, we're going to have hyperinflation.
Well, they've been predicting hyperinflation since Nixon took us off Bretton Woods.
Right, right.
And it hasn't happened.
And the question is why?
Well, it's because they're not looking at the whole financial picture.
Right.
And my hat is off to Catherine Fiske for pointing this out.
If you don't consider the black budget, if you don't consider this hidden system of finance, which was set up to deal with the UFO, then you're missing over half of the financial picture.
So, in other words, you're committing a material omission in law.
Yeah.
So, in other words, these models don't work because they're not looking at the right model.
Yeah.
Well, they're missing the crucial aspects.
They're missing crucial aspects.
Right.
The black budget and the way it's designed to funnel money out of communities could be drug running, could be mortgage fraud, but whatever mechanism it is that they're using, they know how to keep this financial flow going regardless of what's happening in the real world.
The black budget, you know, this huge amount of liquidity that it has, and so on and so forth.
So, 3D printing is a deflationary pressure.
It's a technological deflationary pressure on the dollar.
Okay?
Okay.
So that's the first thing.
They're trying to bring manufacturing back.
But now the second thing you'll notice is that 3D printing is tailor made, tailor made for the kind of dispersed modular manufacturing that Albert Speer did in Nazi Germany.
In 1943, on to the end of the war, and with a vengeance, because what 3D printing would conceivably allow you to do, follow me here, this is very important.
Okay.
What it would allow you to do is to have, let's say, a little company in Midland, Odessa, Texas, that's producing parts, so many parts of a widget, you know, for some big, under some big government contract.
So they're producing 3D printing these little widgets in their garage, you know, here's your hundred widgets.
That's the perfect way not only to disperse manufacturing and therefore reduce any target.
You see, it's hard to bomb out of existence a dispersed manufacturing network.
True.
All right, that's the first thing.
The second thing is that's the perfect way to get everybody involved in covert production for secret stuff and they don't even know about it.
So, in other words, you're looking at the possibility of a man.
Manhattan Project going public and nobody even realizes that they're doing something.
Oh, yeah.
You see, oh, I'm building this little mechanical wave reader part.
Okay, fine.
But somebody somewhere is assembling this.
Somewhere else.
Yeah, somewhere.
Which, again, you can do underground just as easily as you can do above ground.
Right.
So, in other words, I'm looking at a really interesting strategic picture that tells me they want to bring manufacturing back to North America, number one.
They want to exert a deflationary pressure.
On the economy and make labor cost efficient for manufacturers.
And then, secondly, there's a strategic hidden military purpose here.
They're dispersing that manufacturing because they can now, they've got the technology, and that would conceivably, thirdly, enable covert projects production to really take off, and nobody would be the wiser for it.
And, you know, if you're China wanting to bomb the United States into economic oblivion, What do you target?
Right.
You could be producing this stuff in Milbank, South Dakota, and no one would be the wiser.
Yeah, right, right.
So there's no kind of large scale Ford factory you can hit.
It's all spread out.
Right.
And you could have these small teams of people working on manufacturing these items, and they don't even know what they're for or what the components are.
I think so.
Russian Archives and Spy Satellite Dual Use00:05:00
It's very interesting, and it reminds me of what you were saying about the spy satellite having a dual purpose.
Yeah.
So there's a definite signature there.
We'll definitely keep an eye on this for the Future and see what kind of developments come out of this curious technology.
Yes.
You know, as much as our own breakaway group have been aware of UFO activity over the years, obviously the Russians have been tracking this phenomena very closely and have their own set of secret files on the whole thing.
But do you think that the Russians have a comparable amount of knowledge about this looming off world presence as we do?
Yes.
So they do?
Yes.
So they have, say, just as much knowledge about the UFO topic as we do, at least.
They had begun to open up a lot of the archives.
That they had collected about UFOs.
And it was discovered that Yuri Andropov, during his period when he was the general secretary, and again, we have to remember who Yuri Andropov was.
Yuri Andropov was one of the commissars on the ground putting down the Hungarian Revolution in 1956.
He later was the head of the KGB, in charge of the whole thing.
And he was the leader for only about a year, right?
He was the leader of the Soviet Union for about two years and then was replaced by Konstantin Chernyenko.
Chernyenko, yeah.
Andropov, when he became General Secretary, issued an order to the entire Russian military and intelligence apparatus to monitor every UFO activity.
In the Soviet Union and begin some real serious data collection.
So, you know, you had the entire Red Army spread all the way from Eastern Europe to Vladivostok collecting reports.
Uh huh.
And it's interesting because, go back to that incident I told you about earlier about a UFO shutting down a flight of Russian ICBMs and starting the launch sequence.
Yeah.
That was during Andropov.
Okay.
So early 80s.
Yeah, early 80s.
So that convinces me.
And then, of course, after Putin became the president of Russia, that openness with their UFO files began to kind of dry up.
So, I suspect that the Russians know a heck of a lot more about this than they've ever talked about publicly.
And I think that in itself may be a part of the reason that you see Roscosmos, their space agency, pushing for Russia to develop their space program again, to go to the moon, to establish bases on the moon.
Yeah.
It's interesting to me to watch this because you've got Russia wanting to do this, China wanting to do this, Japan very quietly indicating.
Oh, yeah.
India.
That they want to do this.
In other words, nobody trusts what NASA is saying anymore.
We want to go ourselves and see for ourselves.
Right.
And there's going to come a point in time you get these countries up there like China and India, and they might not be under any press embargo the way that we are.
And then these guys are going to have to change their tune or come up with a good disinformation campaign that lets them work both sides again and put out two conflicting stories.
Right.
And of course, this is what they excel at this kind of fracturing of consciousness, which reminds me of the MJ 12 documents.
Yes.
Because you have these people on one side saying, well, this guy found it in his mailbox.
He was making a movie.
Let it go.
It's a hoax.
Right.
And then on the other side, you have a well respected researcher like Stanton Friedman, who's a nuclear scientist, saying, no, they're completely authentic.
I've checked them out.
And as a matter of fact, they prove a UFO cover up.
Sure.
So there's so many bugs.
Right.
Exactly.
And yet, when you look through them, they look like completely authentic documents.
And it's interesting, you know, he got all over me for pointing out that he has a background in black projects.
Well, he does, you know, this is undeniable.
He himself has said it.
Friedman.
Yeah.
But, you know, this is my problem with people coming out of the government and then entering ufology.
Yeah.
It immediately makes me think we have to be much more critical about what's being said.
Definitely.
Yeah.
You know, this has always been my beef with the Roswell story because there, very clearly, you had within a matter of hours, you had the same military putting out two wildly contradictory stories.
Well, this is standard psychological, social engineering, disinformation operations tactics.
The Roswell Contradictions and Nazi Figureheads00:14:59
Uh huh.
So, split the consciousness, as you say.
Right.
So, that requires some very careful dot connecting when you do this sort of stuff.
And, you know, my dots may not be connected.
Correctly, probably aren't, but at least they're opening up possibilities that lie somewhere between the officially promoted views of things and force you to look at other possibilities.
Well, one interesting area of research that you've done a fantastic job of connecting the dots in is this advanced physics project called the Nazi Bell or Die Glocke.
Now, we touched on this in our last interview, but I wanted to go more in depth about its development and where it was taken to after the war.
So let's start with Hans Kamler, who was in charge of the Bell project.
Now, can you tell me about Kamler?
And, you know, we know he fled at the end, and they put out a cover story oh, he's dead, we can't question him.
But he disappeared, and I guess he turned up dead a few times.
Yeah.
But the Bell scientists also disappeared, and some of them were taken out and executed.
Now, do you think Kamler took the Bell research with him to Argentina?
Yes, I believe so.
This is where I part company with Nick Cook and Igor Vitkovsky because they think the bell came to this country.
All the indications that I did with research with Dr. Richter and his project down there for Juan Peron indicate that the project went there.
And Argentinians tell me, I have a kind of a contact, I guess you'd say, told me very bluntly that in Argentina they say that that last Junkers 390, that big six engine aircraft, landed in Argentina and then was quickly dismantled.
So, in other words, that means Kamler went there.
Incredible.
But Kamler, Hans Kamler, had a doctorate of engineering in Germany, which is possible to get in Germany.
And he, the story about his death is, you know, it's the same pattern that we've seen with Adolf Hitler, you know, these conflicting testimonies of how he really died.
Exactly.
Did he shoot himself in the temple?
Did he shoot himself in the mouth?
Did he swallow cyanide and shoot himself in the temple?
Come on.
And we're supposed to believe all this because, after all, it's those truth telling Nazis telling us these stories.
Right.
Martin Bormann, the same thing.
He died in a tank.
He died beside a tank.
No, he didn't die by a tank at all.
He died way over there at the Lehrter train station or somewhere.
Heinrich Miller, the head of the Gestapo, same thing.
And Hans Kamler probably fits the pattern better than any of the others to a T because, in one version of his story, no one actually saw him die.
Huh.
The stories are all about what people say, how he died.
In one story, Kamler told von Braun, Well, I'm going to head to this little Cistercian monastery in northern Italy and get out that way.
That's what he told von Braun.
Yes.
In another, he.
Version of the story, he has his aide drive him out to a forest in Bohemia and shoot him, orders his aide to shoot him.
In the third version of the story, Kammer drives himself out into the forest and shoots himself.
And in the fourth version of the story, he goes down in a blaze of SS glory, Blut und Erre, fighting rebelling Czechs in Prague.
So it's Rashaman, right?
Yeah, you know.
Yeah.
So, in other words, we've got, once again, we've got an obfuscated story of a high ranking Nazi leader.
And in his case, we have to remember that this is the man, this is the man that designed Auschwitz.
Right.
This is the man that controlled the SS building and works department.
So, in other words, he's in charge of everything that the SS is constructing in Germany, period.
Yeah.
Concentration camps, secret rocket bunkers, you name it, that's his job.
And on top of all of that, he is also, by the end of the war, heading all, and I mean all, of Nazi Germany's secret research.
And interestingly enough, he's not reporting to Heinrich Himmler, who Martin Bormann has very neatly engineered out of the picture.
Yeah, he's out of the way.
But he's reporting directly to Martin Bormann.
Oh, that raises the stakes quite a lot.
Yeah.
Because I always tell the people, I always tell people, you know, when you're dealing with Martin Bormann, you're dealing with Dick Cheney without the warmth and charm.
Right.
Oh, that's a good one.
Yeah.
Now, Bormann is the deputy Fuhrer at this point, and he's acting like he's in charge because Hitler is, let's say, deteriorating on many levels.
Not only deteriorating, in my book, The Nazi International, I point out a certain amount of recent evidence that's beginning to come out that Bormann actually had Hitler drugged.
Drugged.
Yeah.
So that he could get him out of the bunker because Hitler didn't want to leave, you know.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, that is fascinating.
And Bormann takes Hitler to Argentina.
Takes him to Argentina.
Yeah.
And there's now substantial evidence to support that story.
Yeah.
I think Hitler went to Argentina.
I don't think necessarily they ended up staying there for however long it was that he lived after the war.
Yeah.
Peter Lavenda's done some interesting research that suggests that he may have ended up eventually in Indonesia, of all places.
Huh.
But, yeah, I mean, Hitler.
Well, he was going to die soon from Parkinson's disease anyway, right?
Yeah, yeah.
We don't know what he was afflicted with at the end of the war.
Some things suggest Parkinson's, and some things suggest some other problems.
So he would have been used as a figurehead by this post-war Nazi group.
When they needed authority to make decisions, they just wheel him out on cue.
Well, I think Bormann needed Hitler as kind of the symbol for the transition of power to legitimize the fact that.
As early as 1942, Hitler is running his war.
So that left Martin Bormann literally in charge of the domestic day to day running of the Nazi Empire in Europe.
Yes.
So Bormann, I think, becomes very clearly by 1944, when he's moving all of this stuff out of Europe, I think very clearly Bormann becomes the head of this, what I've been calling the post war Nazi international.
Yeah, well, they certainly survived intact after the war and were largely based in South America.
We can trace them through this post war period.
But with all the facts that we know of, is there any chance they are still around now, working behind the scenes?
Is this post war Nazi international still in existence today, making waves on the geopolitical stage?
You know, what are the odds that we're still dealing with them, and who's in charge?
Who that would be today, I don't know.
I do think that still exists.
But where the nerve center is, who's making the decisions, I don't know.
I have suspicions, but.
So it's been obscured over time.
But if you follow the trail, and this is how we'll sum up what you just laid out there, Kamler probably was the one, since he was in charge of the advanced technology, the Bell Project, he took it from Germany to Argentina.
Right.
And he reported directly to Bormann, who in all likelihood took Hitler to Argentina.
Right, right.
Also, now there's substantial evidence that you came across that Bormann was indeed alive in the 60s because.
Actually, I didn't come across it.
Okay.
There was a gentleman, a journalist, back in the 70s by the name of Ladislaus Fargo, who wrote Aftermath.
The book was called Aftermath, and then the subtitle was Martin Bormann and the Fourth Reich.
And.
Fargo had been with Allied intelligence during World War II.
So, in other words, this guy is not just a flake in a fly by night.
Yeah.
He published this book, and in it he reproduced documents from the Argentine Central Intelligence Agency, Secretaria de Intelligencia.
And he, in this, pointed out in these documents that Argentine intelligence had been surveilling the movements of Martin Bormann in South America after the war.
Okay.
To Perron and whoever else, you know.
Got it.
And this had been going on, you know, up into the early 1960s.
And Fardergo, once the book came out, was just absolutely hammered in the Western press, particularly the American press.
No, this wasn't true.
Martin Bormann died, you know, in Berlin.
We don't know exactly how.
But, you know, and Fardergo began his book by pointing out, well, if Bormann died in Berlin, And they were so certain of it, why did the Nuremberg trials sentence him to death in absentia?
Uh huh.
You know, that's another little curiosity.
Yeah, why?
That's a really good point.
Well, yeah, he was just lambasted for this book.
I have the book.
In fact, my folks gave me this book for a Christmas present when I was in junior high school.
I still have it.
Excellent.
And a friend of his was a CBS journalist by the name of Paul Manning.
Good friend of Ladislaus Fratergo.
And Manning was so appalled by the treatment that Fratergo received for this book that he decided on his own to investigate the Bormann survival story.
And, you know, we have to know who Paul Manning was.
He was a very close associate with Ed Murrow, you know, the pre Cronkite Cronkite at CBS.
Uh huh.
So Manning.
Kind of a big wheel in the media.
Kind of like a Tom Brokaw type.
Yeah, he was a very big wheel in CBS.
And so Manning wrote this book called Martin Bormann, Nazi in Exile.
And in the beginning of the book, he points out that he had let Alan Dulles at the CIA review the material before publication.
And he tells in the preface of the book that Dulles told him, You're on the right track.
That's all Dulles said.
Strange admission.
And in the book, Basically, Manning goes through Fadergo's research meticulously and points out that, you know, there's no argument here, folks.
This is a done case.
Martin Bormann was alive and well and running this Nazi, whatever it was, in South America, and for that matter, the rest of the world.
But then he points out, I love this, he points out just kind of the pièce de resistance because, according to him, Martin Bormann, sometime in the early 60s, I think it was,
Had cashed a check for several million dollars on manufacturers Hanover and Chase Manhattan Bank that was cleared by Deutsche Bank in Buenos Aires, and the check had been written over his own signature.
Unbelievable.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
Yeah, you know, so.
And they cashed it.
And they cashed it, and Deutsche Bank cleared it.
Yeah, well, you've got the Rockefeller Chase Bank and the Deutsche Bank.
The Rockefeller Bank and the Rockefeller Financial Interest, and the bank that for so long after the war was headed by Dr. Hermann Josef Ops.
And, well, who's Hermann Josef Ops, you might say?
Well, it just turns out that Dr. Ops, prior and during the war, was the head of this handling bank in Berlin that was the bank that handled all of the public accounts of the Reich government.
Oh, nice connection.
So, in other words, Dr. Ops was the guy signing Adolf Hitler's paycheck.
A paycheck, correct.
As Reichskanzler.
Yeah, yeah.
So, okay, that's an interesting thing.
So, this means that Dr. Ops is in on the Bormann secret.
And it gets even more interesting, Daniel, because you can research this Bormann thing, and you'll discover that West German.
State prosecutors, you know, their equivalent of a district attorney in a state in the United States.
Their state prosecutors would often attempt to pursue the Bormann story and attempt to prosecute some aspect, you know, in the case.
And they would always run up against this absolute brick wall beyond which they could not penetrate.
Uh huh.
So, in other words, you know, and I'm one of these that believes that Bormann.
Was intimately involved in the structuring of American aid back to Europe because most of that money wasn't American at all.
Right, right.
Well, this was the Nazi loot.
Yeah.
Hidden Nazi Organizations and Latin America00:15:18
So, you know, I talk about all of this and a lot of other stuff because there's a Japanese side of this story.
Yes.
And there's even a Chinese side of the story that I haven't talked about except on my website in my members area.
But, um, But, yeah, I think Bormann is one of the key hidden financial linchpins here because what this check cashing story indicates is that at a very high level within the Rockefeller interest, at a very high level within Deutsche Bank, they know that there's some big, huge secret here and we better keep it quiet.
And I think literally part of this is concerning space, going back to what we said earlier with Davis and Apollo 11.
There was a deal struck.
And, you know, trust me here, folks, you know, you don't want to break your word with Don Corleone.
That's one thing.
Breaking your word with Martin Bormann.
Definitely.
It's not, you know, not a good idea.
So I think that given the fact that you've got this post war Nazi, whatever it is, you know, overthrowing King Farouk in Egypt, yeah, we're dealing with something.
So the Nazis were back with a vengeance.
Yes.
And they remained stealth in the background.
They were still calling a lot of the shots on the world stage, though.
Right.
Because they had a lot to bargain with with this advanced technology and the post war financial power play they were doing.
So they regained enough power to continue and to avoid detection.
So my question is when did the post war Nazi super states start to wane in their influence?
Look, I think this is still there's a hidden, no one wants to go there.
There's a hidden Nazi thing going on right now.
Now, I mean, just look at the Ukraine.
Yeah, look at these neo Nazis we put into power.
Well, these people have connections to Stefan Bander as the Russians have been screaming.
And Stefan Bander, of course, you think of all of that and you think General Galen and his organization and his front groups.
Yeah.
And then on top of this, you had Mr. Putin's close advisor, Sergei Glazev, coming out, just right out, and saying, you know, we're dealing with Nazis in Kiev, but the real problem that we have to deal with, and listen carefully, and he says this in so many words.
Are the Nazis in Washington?
Wow.
Now, this isn't, and I, you know, folks, this isn't Russian rhetoric here.
Right.
They know this story, and no one is listening to them.
And as far as I'm concerned, from my research, yeah, this post war Nazi thing, it's still around.
Well, we know that the Russians took the brunt of the Nazi onslaught in the first place, so I'm sure they watch that situation closely.
Oh, yeah, absolutely they do.
Absolutely they do.
And you can't blame them.
So, yeah, there's a huge story after the war with this Nazi international, and people just don't want to go there because it's too much to absorb.
It changes the way you perceive what's going on now in many ways.
Including the Muslim Brotherhood, which had major ties to the Nazis and its founding.
Yes.
One thing that always bothered me about the South American Nazi angle is that.
The Mossad, Israeli intelligence, they seem to really do an excellent job of tracking and capturing these post war Nazi officials like Eichmann.
So, how were guys like Bormann and Kamler able to escape capture?
Do you think there was a deal in place or what was going on there?
I suspect what's going on is number one, the Nazi security in Latin America was obviously probably pretty tight and difficult to penetrate, especially if you have someone, as I believe, after the war, like Gestapo Miller running it.
Because he handled the security for Kamler, and we know that story.
The Allies and the Russians never completely penetrated that whole operation.
Miller had put a triple belt of security around the whole thing.
So if you have Miller running this, maybe the Mossad didn't learn, or it could be possible that this Nazi group after the war lets a small crumb off the table every now and then.
Okay, yeah.
And Eichmann is small enough.
Sure.
Feed him a little.
Feed him Eichmann, you know.
So, you know, you're dealing with just a psychopathy on an enormous scale here with these people.
I mean, they have no scruples, they have no conscience, they have no morals.
So, you know.
So, when you look at the South American side of this post war Nazi international, and, you know, we see so much of the drug trade being carried out down there.
With the cartels getting stronger, do you think this post war Nazi super state is behind a lot of that drug running?
Yes.
That was easy.
Right.
No, I'll tell you why.
Those cartels have a degree of private security that indicates that they have had some professional training somewhere.
In other words, we're not talking Lucky Luciano and the mob.
Yeah.
This is much more sophisticated in terms of their security that they have.
And that indicates to me that they've had some professional training.
Now, when you throw into this mix the research of people like Gary Webb or even Gary Sick, one of President Carter's intelligence advisors, or Henry Kruger, the great heroin coup, his book, when you throw into the mix that kind of research that they've uncovered definite.
Indications of CIA involvement or some rogue group, let's be more precise, within the American intelligence apparatus that's been running drugs as a financing mechanism for covert ops and other projects.
That you have to then ask yourself well, if this is the case, if they've had that kind of contact with these drug cartels, then how was that contact initiated?
Well, like in many other cases, I suspect that the actual boots on the ground.
On the South American end, were this Nazi international?
You know, everybody points out the fact in the popular literature that when King Farouk was overthrown in 1954 in Egypt, you know, by the CIA, what they don't go on to tell you is who are the boots on the ground?
Well, the boots on the ground for the CIA are these Nazi international guys.
Yeah.
You know, General Farnbacher, General Rehmer, Hjalmar Schacht.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's all these Nazis.
Even Otto Scorsese is involved with that.
So, you know, yeah, CIA sponsored, but the people actually doing it is this Nazi international.
So, once again, what's really going on?
Is this CIA led?
Is this CIA endorsed?
Or did, you know, these post war Nazis get a wild hair and the Americans said, yeah, that sounds like a good idea.
Go for it, you know.
Right, yeah.
You know, I point out.
And people think this is nuts, you know, and I can understand why they think that until, you know, you get in and start digging and looking at the real details of what's going on here.
Christopher Simpson points out in that book, Blowback, that when General Galen makes his deal with American intelligence, that the influence of Galen's organization in terms of intelligence collection and analysis,
okay, of the Soviet bloc, Was so pervasive within the intelligence community in those early days that sometimes Galen's reports and analyses would simply be retyped on CIA stationery and presented to President Truman without any further comment.
Oh, it's amazing.
So, in other words, folks, in other words, Adolf Hitler's chief of military intelligence on the Eastern Front during World War II is directly briefing President Truman.
It's pretty shocking, actually.
Yeah.
It's mind blowing.
And we're forming our policy based on.
We're forming our policies on the basis of what a Nazi is telling us.
That's problematic.
He's telling us.
So, yeah, there's a problem there.
You trace this Nazi international through the Kennedy assassination and the emergence of the space program.
So, your material on that is so well supported, and there are so many interesting links.
At a certain point, this Nazi group feels like they blended into NASA and into the national security state.
And they're harder to detect somehow as time goes along.
So, where do you see them trailing off?
Well, I don't see them trailing off.
Oh, that's not good.
That's the bad news, folks.
Right.
I'm Foursquare with Sergey Glazier on that one.
Yeah, right, right.
No, I don't see them trailing off, but I do see the trail goes cold.
Uh huh.
I can tell you where I think the trail went and where to look for anybody pursuing the story.
And I'll be very honest, I'm pursuing the story right now myself.
That's good.
Part of the trail, there's something murky, as I suggested, in the Nazi International with former Chancellor Kohl, Helmut Kohl, who had a lot of backing from these exilee societies in Germany, particularly the Silesian Exilee Society.
And that's a key right there because these exilee societies, the Bielorussian Ex National Society, The Ukrainians, the various Baltic states, they all had their little exilee societies that were basically fronts in Galen's organization.
The white Russian community?
The yellow Russians, right.
Yeah.
That's very fishy to me that Cole had that type of backing, given the fact that during the period.
Of the run up to the reunification in Germany, on the eastern side, in the eastern zone, you had literally the demonstrations against the East German Republic being co opted at one point by well organized, well funded, and no one knew where this came from, it just came out of the blue, that diverted those protests for reform in the East German state to reunification with Western.
Yeah.
So that implies an intelligence network, that implies financing.
You know, Cole is right there, ready to go with his little secret plan to reunify Germany.
Right.
And there were other things that Cole did, too, that were very, very sneaky.
But the other trail in this post war Nazi international, this is kind of a difficult winding trail.
Sure.
The structure of this entity after the war was very tightly plugged into another.
So called CIA front called the World Anti Communist League, which was based in Taipei.
Oh, okay.
That's part of the Chinese connection.
That's not, trust me here, folks, that's not even anywhere near all of it.
Right.
But that's part of that connection.
And if you stop and think of it now, Taipei, that organization after the fall of the Soviet Union changed its name to something, and I forget the exact name now, but changed the name.
To the World Endowment for Democracy or something like that.
Oh, that's clever.
So, you know, we're no longer anti communist, but it's the, in my opinion, it's probably the hidden coordinating agency behind a lot of these government, or pardon me, non government organizations, NGOs.
Interesting.
That are privately financing and funding all these regime changes, including in the Ukraine.
I think that organization has some hand in it somewhere, because this is the organization, if you watch Mr. Putin very carefully, you'll see the Russians.
Occasionally referring to.
Right.
So that organization is still in existence, and that organization definitely did have a very close connection to this post war Nazi international.
Got it.
So there's something going on.
As I pointed out in Nazi International itself, I was told by a contact of mine that at a diplomatic business reception in Washington, D.C. back in the 80s for German businessmen, one of them got drunk and just started literally talking about the bell.
Well, the bell story hadn't been broken yet, and he was just very quickly quieted down.
Turns out the guy's name, supposedly, allegedly, was.
Family name was Zandstede.
And if you look in the records, Zandstede was a German spy, a Nazi spy that had been expelled from Argentina during the run up to that nation's entry into the war.
So the connections are all over the place.
So we have the World Endowment for Democracy, which is basically a CIA front, and some shady NGOs on the radar.
So, what is the other really major connection to this post war?
Nazi group, no.
The final big connection, and this is the one that you really have to start digging because the trail is there if you're willing to really dig and dig and dig and dig, is IG Farben and the breakup.
Okay.
IG Farben, 1934, and the Armaments Industry00:04:25
Because the companies that formed IG Farben are still in existence.
Hicht, Bayer, you know, all of these big German chemicals and pharmaceutical companies.
Those were.
Are the pieces of IG Farben.
That gives you an idea of the size of that cartel.
That's the real story.
Because it would appear on close analysis that their corporate and hence cultural and political goals for Germany and for Europe have not changed since the days of the Kaiser.
And I'm not exaggerating.
Wow.
Unbelievable.
Well, it's coming up on 25 years since the reunification of Germany.
Yep.
You know, perhaps that influence is lurking in the shadows then.
Of course, Germany is at a tremendous zenith of power right now.
It is.
Germany's economic ranking, I think, right now is either number four or five.
Incredible.
Yeah.
Really?
On a population base of 80 million.
Yeah.
You know.
So, in other words, it's extraordinary.
Yeah, the perk.
It's the same old story with Germany.
You know, this is where we were before World War I.
This is where we were before World War II.
You have this narrow population base, a country without strategic depth and without a lot of national resources, but an enormous economy that is heavy manufacturing based.
Right.
And, you know, it's just like deja vu.
And the problem that.
Zbigniew Brzezinski said it in his book, The Grand Chessboard.
NATO was as much not only about containing communism, but containing this principal problem of 20th century geopolitics, and that was the reality of German power.
Right.
So, you look at Germany now, they're building the submarine launched ballistic missile for France, they're building the warheads for that missile.
Huh.
That's something.
They're selling Dolphin class electro submarines to Israel.
Now, that is strange.
Oh, yeah.
They've sold six of them to Israel.
Incredible.
And, folks, those things are capable of underwater launching of cruise missiles.
Oh, boy.
Yeah.
And now, recently, the German defense minister has said, well, Germany can't, probably can't make its NATO commitments in case of an emergency.
Oh, they're stepping out.
Totally.
Oh.
Well, what do you think of that?
I think that's Germany's cover story for we're not going to just rubber stamp every NATO action.
Yeah.
And we're not going to go along with a lot of it.
Because the armaments industry in Germany is huge.
It's unnerving somehow.
Yeah.
They're making the inroads.
You know what strikes me about what the Germans are doing now?
Recently they asked the New York Fed for their gold and didn't get it.
And didn't get it.
So are we seeing a power struggle here between two old friends?
Are they parting company?
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I think that was definitely an attempt by Germany to reassert more sovereignty.
Okay.
And to start the process of breaking out of the NATO straitjacket.
Right.
And they didn't get it, you know, because, you know, it was obvious what the game was.
But there's a deeper story to this.
Okay, this might be a good point to go over something you spend a good deal of time on in your covert wars.
Books, and that is this hidden system of finance and its relation to the black budget.
Now, what can you tell us about the structure of this massive covert money operation?
And what are some of the telltale signs of how it's being used in this kind of shady intel finance underworld?
Breaking NATO and the Black Budget System00:12:17
At this stage, I'm really, folks, trying to piece the structure of this thing together still.
When did it really begin, and for what purpose?
There are indications that part of it began in 1934.
The real push.
Came in 1947 with President Truman.
But there are even earlier indications in 1934, and here's what one of them is.
In his memoirs, Hjalmar Schacht, who was president of the Reichsbank during the late 1920s, all the way up on into the early Hitler period, visited, and remember who Schacht is.
This is the guy.
That created the Bank of International Settlements, which sits atop all the other central banks in the world.
That's the guy.
Got it.
A German.
Right.
A German American, I should say.
Or an American German.
His parents were German.
He was born in this country, went back to Germany.
So, Heilmar Schacht in 1928 comes on a visit to his good friend, Benjamin Strong, Governor.
Of the New York Federal Reserve.
Okay.
And Strong takes Schacht down into the vault area and they're, you know, talking and touring around.
And then Schacht asks to see the Reichsbank's gold.
Huh.
And staff goes off, staff comes back, perplexed look on their faces.
Herr Schacht.
We can't seem to find the Reichsbank's gold.
Wow.
This is in his memoirs.
Okay?
Yeah.
And Schacht in his memoirs says that he just kind of smiled to his friend Strong and said, That's okay, I know you're good for it.
What?
That's really odd.
Now, and let's remember Schacht at the Nuremberg tribunals gets a very light sentence.
Some people have speculated that he had something on the West.
Who does Schacht end up?
Working for?
Well, Schacht just so happens to be negotiating after King Farouk is overthrown with Gamal Abdel Nasser for some financial wheelings and dealings between West Germany and Egypt and Nasser's government.
And he ends up eventually working for, guess who?
Aristotle Onassis.
Oh, that's unexpected.
Wow.
That's an incredible connection.
Yeah, I know.
So, you know, and there's no, trust me here, I've looked and looked and looked to find out what in the name of sense is Aristotle Onassis having anything to do with Hjalmar Schacht?
You can't find anything.
Well, there's no legitimate reason.
And, you know, what president of a central bank is going to go to another central bank, ask to see the gold, be told that they can't find the gold, and then just kind of shrug it all off?
Oh, yeah, that's fascinating.
Yeah, and that's 1928.
But he mentioned it.
Yeah, he mentioned it.
Yeah.
Almost like, you know, I can expose you at any time.
Yeah.
Kids.
Yeah.
Kids.
Friends.
Friends.
But that is fascinating.
You know, I can only imagine what an Onassis connection could be because Onassis is such a mysterious figure on the world stage.
Yeah.
Of course, he's there to play cleanup a few times in crucial situations.
Is there anything about Onassis, just briefly, that can illuminate his character for us?
Beyond the obvious dirty deals that he was running for Mussolini and Hitler.
Yeah.
And beyond the obvious fact that he ends up marrying Jackie Kennedy.
Right.
I'd never figure that one out.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
But, you know, no Nazi connection to the JFK assassination.
No, not at all.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of one other researcher that delved into this post war Nazi aspect.
Of the JFK assassination, and that was Mae Brussel.
That's right.
Now, she hammered away at that aspect, and she was always mentioning this character, Kramer, who was a mentor to Henry Kissinger, I guess.
But he had this Nazi past.
But I don't think she ever figured out in the end about who he was.
No.
She didn't.
Pretty obscure guy.
There's so many obscure details, fuzzy things that are left.
Over from that period of history.
Yeah.
I mean, I pursued as many of the clues as I could in the Kennedy assassination book.
Right.
But I know, I know that the trail goes much deeper and much farther.
It's just one of the things you get accustomed to thinking when you do this kind of research.
You can only pursue it to a certain point, but you know there's more.
Yes.
But you just don't know quite how to find it or where to look for it.
Well, you've talked about reverse engineering this breakaway group.
But you've also done some excellent work on the JFK assassination in your book, LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy A Coalescence of Interests.
Right.
Now, you identified some key elements that a lot of researchers don't get into.
You know, very often they get stuck at the Cubans or the mafia or the Soviets and they don't see the deeper picture and they lose a lot of the connecting threads.
Right.
So I think one of the things that you did that was so fascinating and I think got to the core was that you figured out how these groups could unite and coordinate to participate in the assassination.
And that's why I always recommend that book.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's a very similar approach to Professor Peter Dale Scott.
Yeah, and I think his work is tremendous.
But he'll tell us all about the deep states, but he doesn't really get into the Nazi part.
No one wants to go there.
Yeah.
Well, it's murky territory, all right.
I'm the only one out there that wants to go there.
Yeah.
But there is a connection.
I mean, just like it or not.
And that's the part that no one really wants to touch because once you go there, then you realize that there's something much more at play in play here.
Than just the fact that Kennedy pissed off the deep American deep state.
Right.
He pissed off something else.
And it has to do, in my opinion, with technologies and so on and so forth.
And that there's a much, much deeper story.
And that opens up, you know, I don't blame Professor Scott for not wanting to go there because.
Sure.
It's hard enough to go after the covert part.
It's hard, yeah.
It's hard enough to assemble all the.
Little nested details that he's assembled to begin with and make a comprehensible picture out of it.
So, unless you're willing to entertain hidden technologies and hidden systems of finance and everything else and Nazis, once you start opening that can of worms up, then you're dealing with an even bigger and messier and dirtier picture.
So, I don't blame the people that don't go there.
But I do think that.
You really can't appreciate what's been going on in the West if you don't have an understanding that there was unfinished business.
Right.
You know, to cite the lines from Kill Bill.
Yeah.
There's unfinished business from World War II, and it's still not over.
Exactly.
Just one quick question on JFK before we wrap up this episode.
You did an interesting thing by showing that there were elements of NASA connected to the JFK assassination.
Now, because so many people connected with Oswald in that period in New Orleans went on to jobs at NASA, which I think shows a really strong link to the forces in play.
Yes.
Now, NASA, of course, had a big Nazi presence.
There's major Nazi presence inside at the time, supposedly reformed Nazis.
Kinder, gentler Nazis.
Yeah.
Why do you think these post war Nazi international people opposed JFK and the moves he was making at that time?
Well, my speculation is that putting yourself into the Nazi mentality, you know, if you're someone like Werner von Braun or Kurt Davis, it becomes clear that these men were reporting to somebody, particularly in the period immediately after they got here, that they were reporting to somebody.
And it wasn't within the American chain of command.
Okay.
And there are several reasons that the Nazis would have been motivated to participate in a conspiracy against the president.
The first, obviously, would be that Kennedy's threat to smash the CIA into a thousand pieces would have been a direct threat against the front behind which this post war Nazi thing is operating.
Yeah.
It's significant to me that he packs General Lemnitzer off to Europe as the American head of NATO.
And of course, Lemnitzer takes all of his covert action projects with him and basically establishes the Gladio operations.
Well, what are the Gladio operations?
They're nothing but General Galen's stay behind units.
Right.
So, in other words, there's yet another connection.
So they have motivations in that sense to protect their intelligence gig, as it were.
Then, Kennedy reportedly, if you read Hoagland's research, Was preparing to hand over to the Soviets as part of an enticement, really, to get them to participate in a joint moon mission.
Was prepared to hand over to them a lot of the CIA's UFO files.
Yes.
Now, at some point, as we've been talking, this is going to lead to some of that Nazi technology.
So, you know, this group is just adamant to protect that technology.
So, they would not want to see their most cherished secrets end up in the hands of the hated communists.
Right.
So, they have lots of motivations, really, when you get right down to it, for participating in a conspiracy like that.
And then finally, to me, the biggest one would have been the finances.
Because Kennedy, in his decision to issue that executive order to bypass the Federal Reserve, what he's bypassing, and he doesn't know it, Is a key cog in the machinery of that hidden system of finance after the war.
And I can't tell you why, because that's part of the China story.
Okay.
Yeah, it's very.
Yeah, well, the China story is going to be the basis of the next book, right?
It may at some point figure in.
Kennedy Bypassing the Federal Reserve00:01:16
Okay.
The Federal Reserve is a part of this hidden system of finance in a very unique way.
Uh huh.
Because there are indicators that at certain points in history, it has issued its own bonds.
Uh huh.
On a hidden bond market.
Are these the bearer bonds?
That's it.
Ding, ding, ding.
So, in other words, it's not the U.S. Treasury.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Uh huh.
It's the Federal Reserve, straight up.
Yeah.
Well, that's very interesting.
This has just been excellent going deep into your Covert Wars and the Clash of Civilizations book.
You know, I have the thrice great Hermetica and the Janus Age locked in now.
So when I'm finished with that, let's talk again.
Have fun.
Okay, I will.
All right.
Thank you, Daniel.
Bye bye.
Thank you, Joseph.
Thank you for joining me for this fascinating episode on Breakaway 2.0 ET Wars, the Black Budget, and the Nazi Superstate with Dr. Joseph P. Farrell.
You can find more special reports, interviews, and documentaries at www.darkjournalists.com.