Timothy Good and Daniel Wallace dissect decades of alleged human-ET contacts, detailing the W56 group's 1956 origins in Europe and South America. They examine specific cases like Mr. Kinio's interactions, the 2006 Wrocław hypnosis incident, and the 1930s Leo Dvorak abduction in North Dakota. The discussion highlights military involvement through Lord Hill Norton's support for Rendlesham Forest and Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley's 1952 warnings, alongside the controversial 1957 Antonio Villas Boas abduction in Brazil. Ultimately, these accounts suggest a complex history of benevolent and malevolent entities, with governments actively suppressing evidence while figures like General Kenneth Israel confirm the authenticity of such encounters. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Earth, An Alien Enterprise00:09:10
Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
Today, my special guest is bestselling author Timothy Goode.
Now, Timothy wrote the groundbreaking book Above Top Secret about the covert forces behind the UFO cover up.
Now, he's back with his most ambitious work to date Earth, an Alien Enterprise.
In the book, he introduces us to a series of contacts that took place over a span of five decades with a mysterious ET group known simply as the W 56.
The so called Amicitia, or friendship case, is one of the most Important Contact E encounter cases on record and is only now being revealed.
Now, the UFO mystery and classic Contact E stories, like those of George Adamski and Howard Menger, have been shrouded in disinformation by covert intelligence agencies.
Timothy is lifting the veil on the real story behind human ET contact, and we've got a front row seat.
Here we go.
Timothy Good.
Aliens.
Good and evil.
What I feel is that they've probably been on this planet longer than we have.
From what I understand, there are several different types of aliens, some of whom do not have our best interests at heart.
I was told this by an American government source.
He told me they had very deep underground bases beneath the Earth and that they were trying to create a hybrid.
There is a very powerful group on this planet which possesses tremendous knowledge.
Technology, psychology.
They use people not only from this planet, but also other people of your own planet who live unobserved and undiscovered as yet to dupe your peoples into a distorted concept of a truth which enveloped your planet thousands of years ago.
Timothy, it's a great honor to have you here.
Of course, your work sets the standard for serious UFO investigation.
Thank you very much.
Now, I want to start right off the bat with the Amicitia case because it is so intriguing.
And you've done such an interesting job of bringing it to light in the new book.
Now, it's not a very widely known case, so how did you first come to become involved in it and research it?
Well, it was thanks to my friend and colleague Stefano Breccia, who sadly is no longer with us.
He passed away about two or three years ago, I think about three years ago, actually.
And my girlfriend and I went out to Italy on two occasions and spent a lot of time with him, and he gave me A lot of new information about the Amicizia case.
And that was it.
That's why I devoted chapter 13 to that entire case.
Now, this is a very interesting case for a lot of reasons.
One, it's been kind of covered over by history.
And certainly, you know, when you think of abductee cases, you might think of Betty and Barney Hill or Travis Belton.
This one is actually much more in depth and goes on over a much longer period of time.
And you're dealing with human looking aliens.
But something must have, it seems to me, something convinced you of how authentic this case was for you to do so much work on it.
Well, that was because of Stefano Breccia.
He was so convincing and down to earth, and he had been involved for decades with Amicizia.
He'd flown in one of their craft on one occasion together with a German colleague.
I never forget Stefano telling me he found it extremely boring.
I think he took his typewriter up there to make notes.
But he said he couldn't see anything.
You couldn't really see out much and all that sort of stuff.
And it was a relatively small craft.
And I think they took a trip to Cairo via some other, I don't know, Leningrad via Cairo, something extraordinary like that, if I remember.
Wow.
But he was a really, really impressive man, extremely knowledgeable, a scientist.
By trade, a specialist in computer technology and everything.
And he was just a terrific guy.
And it was so sad when he died prematurely.
Oh, I'm sure it's a great loss.
Can you give us a brief overview of the Amicizia case?
Oh, my goodness.
Well, from what I'm told, I was told by Stefano, this was something that spanned at least 40 years.
And it wasn't just in Europe.
I mean, this.
This comprised a large group in countries such as Argentina, Austria, Chile, France, Germany, Italy, Siberia, and Switzerland, and probably almost certainly the United Kingdom, but I have no factual information on that.
But interestingly, in Germany and France and the Soviet Union, it was known respectively as Freundschaft, Amitie, and an unpronounceable Russian Cyrillic name, which is Amitizia in Russian.
Cyrillic script.
So, anyway, it was, as I said in the book, you know, it's certainly the most extraordinary case I've ever investigated.
Sometimes, as Stefano pointed out, sometimes outrageous, farcical, and ludicrous.
But, you know, I just found it seems to have been started in 1956.
And, of course, Professor Bruno Samaciccia was one of the first contacted.
And he was the one that gave a lot of information to Stefano.
And there were several other people, quite a number of other people were involved actually, including even in Chile, I gather.
I have information from a UFO researcher that there was a Chilean Amicizia organization as well.
So it was not just in Europe, this was fairly worldwide, I think.
And they referred to themselves as the W 56?
Yes.
What did that represent?
I think 19.
because it started in 1956 when they started liaising with hand picked people who they thought would be able to help them.
In relation to this, I saw a number of videos that are from a documentary about this case, and they.
They show some of the footage that obviously people who participated with this group had that they released years later.
Now, how did that come about?
How did it get out to the world finally that this case had happened?
Obviously, a lot of people were aware, and I think Stefano himself made sure that the pictures were given to a lot of people.
Okay.
And he, I think, had published some of them in his own book.
And.
I think some of the pictures are quite impressive.
Well, the crafts in this case certainly do bear resemblance to the Adamski style of craft.
One of them in particular caught my eye, and this is a very interesting two man craft, which we have a sketch of that we're putting up here now.
The films from this case that have been released so far are, I think, very authentic.
I agree with you.
And whatever was going on, there's no question they were using very advanced technology.
Yes.
After the W 56 initially contacted the small group of people to work with them, there was a second stage where they would take the members onto these ships and bring them to these fantastic bases.
Now, you highlighted something about these bases that they were constructed almost instantly.
Yes, from what I gather, they can create something in minutes.
And then by compacting the underground bases, I'm sure they have.
They had undersea locations as well, but the underground bases, they were able to compact in a very, very short space of time, perhaps even seconds, matter.
And then just when they'd finished with that particular base, they'd just fill it in immediately.
Yeah.
I mean, I say fill it in, it was all done by obviously phenomenally advanced technology.
Instantly Constructed Bases00:04:50
And these witnesses visited the bases and described them.
Quite a few, yes.
They had this ongoing interaction, but one thing that we should.
Probably mention here is that these aliens weren't very alien.
They looked like human beings.
Oh, absolutely.
And I can say that the only aliens I've met, and that was on three occasions, they looked very human as well.
Certain differences, I have to say, based on my own experience, very calm, if you like.
Seldom did they blink their eyes.
Well, you've had those unusual face to face encounters that we're going to cover as we get into it here.
I have to say that one of the more intriguing aspects of this M. Achizia case is that one of the aliens was a giant.
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, 10 feet tall.
10 feet tall.
There's a photograph in the book.
There is the photograph.
And that photo looks so authentic.
But also in these context stories, there's a dwarf alien with this W 56 group.
So apparently, they're not all from the same species of ETs.
No, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean, that's right from the beginning of the Amicizia case.
There's this tall guy who had a very good sense of humor, apparently.
And, you know, the photograph was taken by Professor Bruno Samicizia, who's a Catholic scholar, you know, who's very well regarded and held degrees in psychology and psychiatry.
And he took that wonderful photograph of Mr. Kinio.
One of the several giant aliens associated with the Ametitia group.
Right.
And that's a great picture.
And he looks a very personable kind of guy.
Well, you know, we're always looking for this authentic picture of an alien and you expect it to be a gray.
But right in the middle of all this, here's this amazing picture of an alien who just happens to be 10 feet tall.
Yes.
I wish I could have printed, I wish they could have published the plate section in color because, you know, it's quite interesting to see the.
Oh, I can only imagine.
Yeah.
But But anyway, they were actually able to work out his height.
I mean, people were told that he was just about 10 feet in height.
But in fact, people have done measurements of the trees and the fir tree behind him, and then there's a bush in front, and they can calculate within a few inches what his actual height was.
So, based on the scenery, they're able to make these measurements.
Has anybody ever authenticated the photo?
That's a very good question.
That's a very, very good question, Daniel.
I don't know.
All I know is that it is or was the original photograph negative is held in a Swiss bank security vault.
Ah, okay.
That's all I have.
Whether it's still there, I don't know.
But I'm sure that somebody's taken care of it and maybe moved it elsewhere to another bank or whatever.
I wrote down three things about these aliens fruit, wine, and smoking.
Yes, especially the smoking.
It doesn't sort of quite gel with one's sort of idea about aliens, but why not, you know?
Yeah, I guess for practical reasons, it would make it easier for them to fit in if they smoke and drink and like sweets.
Yes.
I did notice one of the things that W56 asked the contactee group to do was to go and get them a large amount of fruit.
Yeah, and they liked diamonds and jewels and stones and things, didn't they?
They paid for things.
Yes.
Right, exactly.
They paid precious stones.
And of course, we know that aliens would be good at mining the planet.
That makes sense.
And there are some wonderful stories about because there wasn't just the one tall guy, there were several of them that were 10 feet high.
And there's a hilarious story about the guy who had to completely alter the car so he could fit in.
Behind the driving wheel.
Do you remember that?
Yes, yeah, that's fascinating.
And that wasn't Mr. Kino, it was another guy.
But also, the funniest stories in Italy when they had some of these guys, including one of them, another one, another giant, came round and he was sort of draped around on the floor in the room.
Diamonds And Precious Stones00:09:54
I forget who it was.
Was it Bruno's wife?
Oh, yeah, she was terrified.
Anyway, she came in and not knowing what to expect, she was absolutely terrified.
But he made her, he set her mind at rest.
I find all that hilarious.
Yes, and that's the great thing about the Amicizia case there's a lot of humor and a lot of friendly interaction going on.
This is not the icy scientific grays conducting pregnancy tests.
The W 56s are very warm and engaging.
I'm going to play a clip here, which is an authentic message they gave the contactee group, telling them to stay together and being encouraging.
It's in Italian, but there's a translation in the subtitles up there.
So here we go.
Cari amici, cari figlioli, siate certi di noi, poi che nessuno tra noi vacillera.
Voi siate uniti, uniti.
uniti e sopportate le vostre debolezze reciproche, lottando e migliorando come uomini e come nostri cari amici.
Il nostro mondo per voi cari non è facile a capirsi.
Questo è naturale, ma con l'affetto e la fiducia potrete ugualmente stare That's very interesting.
You know, they seem to have such genuine contacts, and it reminds me of other cases where it starts out very rich with possibilities, and as time goes by, it's as though the contactees can't hold on to that vibration.
So it reminds me, in some ways, of the Billy Meyer case, because there again, the contact went so well when it started.
When it started, and it started in Jordan.
It goes back quite a long way, and I think he had genuine experiences.
You do.
There are several photographs that.
That you can see of craft in the sky, which look quite different from the later ones taken in Switzerland, shall we say.
Oh, okay.
Get the name of the place.
Well, I think when he describes his contacts with the Pleiadians and the woman Semyazi, there is genuine wisdom.
You know, it's a sense that this really happened.
Then later, it feels like what was special about it is just gone.
You know, strange things happen.
There are possibly photo forgeries, and the message just gets lost.
So these great opportunities are hard sometimes, I think, to hang on to.
Yes.
Let me tell you that I was in India in 1964, and I It's a very interesting story.
I think we were staying at the Ashoka Hotel.
We were doing a series of concerts with, I think, the London Symphony Orchestra.
And in the shopping part of this huge hotel, there was a very interesting looking woman.
And she said, Why don't you come in and talk?
And we started chatting.
She was Hungarian, obviously slightly psychic, I would say.
And she started telling me about.
A man who had had contact with aliens over a long time and he'd just gone back to Switzerland, so I'd just missed him.
And this was Billy Meyer.
And eventually I located him and I spoke to him on the phone.
He sounded very genuine, and I think he'd just lost part of his arm, you know, in that accident in his truck, in his trailer, whatever.
And later I met him at.
His house, and I was not comfortable about some of the things that he was saying.
I think he was, as we say, gilding the lily a little bit.
I think he definitely had had some close encounters and took photographs long before he came to Switzerland.
I'm suspicious of some of the photographs, some taken in Switzerland, some of them look convincing, but I'm not absolutely sure about it.
And the thing was, he told me, well, he told me, I was with my friend Louise.
Zinsdag at the time because she'd met him before I had and she was introducing me to him.
He told Lou he didn't want me back in the house ever again.
I was asking too many difficult questions.
Probably.
Getting too close to the truth.
Yeah.
Well, this is something that has to be acknowledged, which is that the people who have genuine experiences, and like you and I both agree that it seems that he had genuine experiences.
I think he did in the early days.
I think so.
Yeah, I think it's definitely true.
There's an era of authenticity around that early period.
But these people are human, and then after the experience leaves them, the mind can expand into far beyond the actual experience.
Yes.
So that's the trick.
Yeah.
And you got the ego involved also.
Yes.
Type of field like Howard Menger would be another one.
Yes, well, I got to know him very well.
I liked him a lot, and he seemed, I spent a lot of time with him, and he seemed sincere to me.
Fantastic.
Not saying I believed everything, but you know, I liked him, I liked his wife, and I think he really did have genuine experiences.
Well, his wife was a newspaper reporter who originally was covering the story.
And that's how that all happened.
I'd forgotten that.
I'd forgotten that.
Thank you for reminding me.
Oh, yeah.
Well, the interesting thing about Menger is again, we have these very human, very beautiful aliens.
But the whole area where he lived around there in New Jersey, everyone knew about him and his sightings, and they knew about the lights in the hills this whole period of time.
So it seems like, you know, this wasn't just one person's claim on a dark, stormy night, he saw a light and was abducted.
This was an ongoing thing over many years, and people, the whole community, knew about what was going on.
So he is a fascinating case.
And again, I think he was somebody who is sort of a little bit removed from the public record.
I mean, you can find him if you're a UFO researcher, but he's not the first one at the top of the list.
Yeah, well, talking of that, there's a lovely quote from Howard Menger, and this is what he was told My friend, this earth is the battlefield of Armageddon, and the battle is for men's minds and souls.
There is a very powerful group on this.
Planet which possesses tremendous knowledge of technology, psychology, and most unfortunate of all, advanced brain therapy.
They use people not only from this planet but also other people of your own planet who live unobserved and undiscovered as yet to dupe your peoples into a distorted concept of a truth which enveloped your planet thousands of years ago in order to attain their own ends.
Now, as I said in the book, you know, it's difficult to know how much credence can be placed in all that, but.
That's an amazing quote.
It certainly resonates to an extent with Richard Hoagland's experiences.
And he features in the book, in a Swedish case, Richard Hoagland.
Very, very interesting.
Right.
He's in the Overlords chapter.
So he's the guy who, in 1965, met a group of ETs.
And they sent him on a mission from Sweden to the Bahamas.
And they gave him a mysterious metal plate with hieroglyphs.
Now, I should mention this is not Richard Hoagland, the NASA dark mission face on Mars guy.
Yeah, there's a Gunver, Gunver Hogland, I think was his wife.
Yes, yes.
Richard Hogland, but you're thinking of H O A G, that Hogland, yes.
Yes, yeah.
And that does, because I got tripped up on that one myself.
I was like, oh, that's Hogland again.
But no, it's not.
It's a different Hogland.
No, I wasn't very convinced by the H O A G Hogland, I must say.
I don't know how much time you spent with him, but.
Well, I'll tell you about Hogland.
I think that the idea of unmasking NASA.
Is interesting.
But I think that what happens a lot with Hoagland's work is that he gets hung up on making predictions about things that don't happen, that don't come to pass.
I once went to a presentation of his.
I think it was in Sweden.
I'm not sure.
But anyway, he was coming out with some really seriously bizarre things about photographs he'd taken of cars in New York, parked cars.
And saying there are strange marks on these cars, you know, and on earth, rabbiting on about.
And it went on for ages.
Timothy, I think there's kind of an entertainment side that goes on in this paranormal thing.
Trying to get him off the platform is the funniest.
Obsession With Predictions00:04:07
Yeah, that's it, exactly.
He can talk for hours.
You can't get him off.
I'd never forget the last time I saw him.
And, you know, he's supposed to have just an hour or an hour and a half, including questions.
He just went on and on.
And he kept saying, You want me to talk more, don't you, ladies and gentlemen?
And it went on and on.
And what it does is it knocks out the speakers who are due to follow.
Oh, no.
You know, so they have to cut down their talk by half an hour or an hour or whatever it was, you know.
Well, you participated in the Secret Space Program conference in Amsterdam.
I did.
Yeah.
That's the one I'm talking about.
I think that's the one I'm talking about.
That's probably the one.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because that's the one I remembered you guys were there together.
Yeah.
But you've lectured for many years at some of the best conferences that deal with the UFO topic as well.
Where do you think it is now in terms of awareness?
Do you think that, have we.
Have we slid in our awareness around UFOs?
Are we actually gaining more experience and more knowledge about what's going on?
Well, I think we are.
Yes.
You and I.
But as far as your average Joe blogs, I don't think really there's been much advance in our knowledge for the man in the street and man and woman in the street.
Do you?
Well, that's an excellent question.
My first reaction is that in retrospect, in the 90s, there's actually a rising consciousness about what the alien factor represented.
So I think after 9 11 and the kind of dreadful decade that followed, something really put the clamp down on the whole thing.
So there was a whole lot of distractions and some blinders put on.
And where we should be progressing to a higher level of awareness with technology, I think we've actually been retrogressing.
On the important topics like UFO contact.
So, you know, I should mention here, though, that your first book, Above Top Secret, which is really an excellent book, is that your first book, actually?
Well, my very first book was called George Adamski, The Untold Story, which I wrote with Louise Zinstark, because she knew Adamski well over a very long period of time.
Whereas I unfortunately never met him.
I tried to on one occasion, but it just didn't work out.
Kind of not too long after he came out.
I think it was 1965.
And he was not, I think he was just barely 60.
So certainly he was not around very long.
But above top secret, I can tell you that when I've spoken to researcher after researcher, go down the line, they all say, ah, it was above top secret.
That's the book that got me involved.
That's very kind of them.
Yeah.
And that is a terrific book.
I think it's a real.
Oh, thank you.
You know, the thing about writing, I'll be very quick with this, is that, you know, I really, when I'm writing a book, that's it, you know, that just takes all my concentration.
And it might be, you know, I think the last book took me two and a half years to write, get it all together.
But once it's gone, it's gone, you know, and I think, gosh, will I ever do another book on the subject again?
Probably not.
Right, right.
But it's strange that, you know, you get obsessed and you need to be obsessed.
I think in their subject to get through a book.
Well, that's a good point, actually.
Now, there's a new edition of Earth and Alien Enterprise.
Oh, yes, that's coming out in.
I spoke to my publishers the other day.
It's coming out in New York again, the same as the Alien Enterprise.
It's coming out in a paperback edition, a heavy, well, a big paperback edition, I think.
And they told me that'll be out in a couple of months in New York.
New Edition Release00:08:26
Well, I can tell you that this book is a fascinating book.
When you're reading about the cases of human interaction, I think that that's such an amazing level that you bring out in this book.
My last experience was in 2006 in Wrocław in Poland, and that was quite an interesting story because I was the guest of honor at this Professor Dudeck's salon in Poland, and I had noticed this person sitting 10 feet away from me.
As I say, I was the guest of honor.
I gave my presentation, and then it was opened up to the assembled gathering.
There were about 80 people there, I guess, some of them quite high ranking.
I remember there were two Polish Air Force officers there.
Okay.
And I had noticed someone sitting about 10 feet away from me, and I immediately was quite aware that he was from elsewhere.
And I tried a bit of telepathy.
There was no response at all.
Now, interestingly, he was the last guy to give a presentation, a short presentation, because you could speak for, I don't know, up to eight, nine minutes, something like that.
And he gave the most fantastic.
Presentation and it was called Earth's Future in Space.
So obviously, I was all ears.
Right.
Now, then, fast forward to the end of the evening.
I mean, because it went on from about seven in the evening and finished at about eleven, and people started going.
This guy was one of them, and he came towards me.
I presented my hand, and he had a very, very limp handshake.
And he just looked at me in the eye, completely unblinking.
Almost like an automaton, but he was similar to others I have seen, to others that I have seen, at least one other, because I've seen one female and one male, going way back from 1963 to, you know, that was in the United States.
But this was in Wrocław in Poland, and the interesting thing was that I chatted with him, there was no response.
I tried to shake his hand, and he just didn't do anything.
He just held my hand, he didn't shake it or anything.
Fast forward five minutes, because I had said to him, I think you have a great deal of information.
I mean, he gave a fantastic presentation about Earth's future in space.
Right.
Fast forward five minutes, because I tried to talk to him and there was no communication at all.
He just looked at me with those unblunking eyes.
Five minutes later, I couldn't remember anything he told me.
Furthermore, I couldn't get any recordings and couldn't get in contact with anybody in the organization.
And I was told that as guest of honor, I would get a recording, I would get photographs, because photographs were taken by at least one professional photographer.
I could get nothing.
I could get nothing from this guy.
And I had completely, it was wiped out from my brain, and I'm sure those of everybody else in the room.
I guess there's about 75, 80 people there.
And so you couldn't come away with a tape of what he'd said.
That was it.
That's fascinating.
So, his entire lecture was just wiped out of your mind when you left.
Yeah, I mean, I don't even know how long it was, but it must have been more than five minutes because you allotted more than five minutes, I think.
And it was about Earth's future in space.
And I absorbed it, I took it all in.
But, you know, minutes later, it had all gone.
And I think he just hypnotized me and everybody else in the audience.
And no one else has been able to remember what he said, except it was about Earth's future in space.
Oh, that's fascinating.
That is really fascinating.
Well, being face to face with him, you were convinced he was extraterrestrial, thinking back on it.
Sure.
And based on previous experiences as well.
Right.
How would you describe him?
I would say he was about 5'10", immaculate skin, very slightly tanned, very few creases in the face, eyes that were unblinking, very pale, greenish blue eyes, I would say, and he just stared at me, as I say, unblinking, and he must have.
Whatever he was doing, it caused me to completely lose everything that he had actually spoken during the presentation.
He wanted you to forget, yeah.
I think so.
I think it's the same with others that were there.
I think he's probably able to hypnotize everybody else.
I don't know for sure.
But I have no idea what Earth's future in space is, despite that being the subject of his topic.
That must have been very unnerving to have.
Forgotten it when you left.
Yeah.
What is the earlier, let's go back to the earlier experiences you had meeting other extraterrestrials.
The one previous to that took place when you were part of a symphony orchestra?
Yes, yes.
The first experience was with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra in 1963.
And I was, we were, Halfway between Tucson, Arizona, and Los Angeles, we were en route to Los Angeles for the second or third or whatever concert.
It was quite a lengthy tour with the orchestra.
And I was sitting with three of my colleagues at a window seat in this diner, and I just noticed a remarkable looking girl waiting in line, as the Americans say, and she was.
She was relatively short, I have to say, immaculate skin, very alert looking.
And so I sent out a thought to her as she was waiting in line.
If you're from somewhere else, can you stop by my colleagues and myself and prove it to me?
And I didn't mention anything to my colleagues at that time.
However, when she came out of line, she came right to our table and gave a most extraordinary, gracious, and deep bow.
Of acknowledgement to my telepathic request.
And then she stood and she smiled very sweetly.
Then a deadpan expression came on her face and she just walked away to another part of the restaurant.
I never saw her again, but my colleague said, What's that all about, Tim?
Where did you pick her up from?
So, you know, there was evidence from others, so I was glad of that.
And the second one was in 1967 when I was then with the London Symphony Orchestra, which I played with them for about.
14 years.
Oh, wow.
And we were in New York doing a series of concerts with Mstitslav Rostropovich, the Russian cellist and conductor.
And he was conducting the London Symphony Orchestra at Carnegie Hall, which was across the way from the Park Sheraton Hotel I was staying in.
And I sent out a few thoughts in my mind.
Okay, I said, if there are any of you guys from elsewhere in the New York area, can you come and sit down next to me and prove it?
And I thought, This is never going to work, but sure enough, after about 15 20 minutes, this guy comes in.
He's 5'10", fair hair, tanned, smooth facial complexion, very pale green blue eyes.
He looked at me unblinking, and then he came and sat down beside me as I had requested in my initial telepathic request, if you like.
Telepathy At Carnegie Hall00:16:00
Was I?
Yeah.
And he came and sat down beside me.
So, in my mind, I said, Right, if you're the guy I'm looking for, take your right index finger and hold it to the right side of your nose and keep it there.
And he did that immediately, kept it there for a while, and then put his finger down.
I thought, Am I going to talk to this guy?
No, I didn't.
I thought, If he wants to talk, he'll say something.
So I'd give him the opportunity to say something.
Amazing.
It was all wordless communication.
Yes.
Wow.
That's fascinating.
And you had that feeling.
Again, but it seems to me you have almost an instinct for when these people are around, because even in the case of the girl, you're a pretty young guy, so to have this idea that you could telepathically communicate is a little unusual.
Maybe, but she probably sent some thoughts to me at the time, you know, to make me alert.
I sensed that.
That was quite likely.
I don't know for sure.
Go ahead.
Yeah, sure.
Well, with these experiences and With your field of study, do you feel like you have some connection with these aliens?
I mean, in terms of sensing their consciousness, being telepathically linked, how does that work?
Sure.
But, I mean, the last time was 2006.
I haven't seen anyone since then.
And so long gaps.
Yeah.
1963, 1967, and then 2006, I think it was.
Yeah, in Wroclaw.
How do you assess, you know, you've had these experiences where you've interacted.
Does that help you to be able to sort of weed out people who may not be sort of telling the whole truth when you are encountering these types of stories?
Definitely.
Because, of course, some of them are just too good to be true.
And then, you know, when you look at something like your experience, you know, with these big gaps of time, I mean, that makes a lot more sense to me in terms of how the aliens would work.
Because you do hear these people come out and they're like, oh, yeah, once a week I get this message from the ETs.
They're talking to me all the time.
And it just seems like that would be too overwhelming.
They wouldn't want to dominate an individual on that level.
No, no.
And there must be quite a few of them around, I guess.
Yes, yeah.
But a relatively small number, a relatively small number.
But, you know, they're around, that's for sure.
But I haven't seen anybody since 2006.
What, Timothy, what do you think they're doing here, principally?
I wish I knew.
What I feel is that they've probably been on this planet longer than we have.
From what I understand, there are several different types of aliens, some of whom do not have our best interests at heart.
There is a conflict between the small greys, if you want to call them that.
I mean, I was told this by.
By an American government source, and I think I mentioned this in the book.
And he told me, I think it's in the last chapter I've gone into some detail about them, about the very, very specific physical details about them and everything, and the fact that some of them had very deep underground bases beneath the earth, and that they were trying to create a hybrid, a hybrid between themselves,
these small critters, if you like, and us.
And whether they've actually succeeded or not, I don't know.
But that was certainly going on donkey's years ago.
I believe they started trying to create this hybrid from 1946, and they gave themselves a 100-year period to do that.
So, you know, let's wait till 2046 and see what they come up with.
Yeah.
If they're still around.
So I don't know, but some of them, I think, are very highly advanced spiritually.
And every other conceivable way, and they live up to, I'm told, up to, you know, they can live up to 400 Earth years.
As you've read, you will have noted from the Amicizia chapter.
Oh, yeah.
But unfortunately, there are these other guys who are trying to produce a hybrid between them and us, and they're better to take over because they wish to try and take over the planet.
I don't think they've succeeded, but.
Yeah, oh, yeah.
I mean, I haven't a clue what's going on right now, but it's been going on for a long time.
So, you would say then that maybe the malevolent visitors would be these greys who are making hybrids?
Some of them, yes, definitely.
There's an interesting story of Maria Rivera in Puerto Rico not that many years ago.
She gave me a lot of details which are published in the book.
I forget which chapter.
It might be in the final chapter, I'm guessing.
Okay.
At any rate, there is communication with selected people, apparently.
And they have tried to create hybrids, that's for sure.
And I think they've succeeded in some cases.
That's fascinating.
You hear on the other side about these more benevolent aliens, and very often, this goes all the way back.
You do a fascinating thing, by the way, in your work, which is you bring.
The case of George Adamski back for review and fill it in with a lot of details.
And that's a case that we apparently may have been discredited by intelligence sources over the years.
And it's been, you know, they've tried different things to keep that story as sort of something that someone won't go back into.
But you've done a great job in bringing it forward.
But it appears that Adamski actually did meet this character, Orthon.
Oh, yes, on quite a number of occasions.
And others.
And I mean, as I said in the book, Adamski had a United States Ordnance Department pass, which gave him access to all military bases throughout the world.
Wow.
Did you know that?
Well, it's in the book, but US Ordnance Department pass.
He also had access to President Kennedy.
He may have had access to Eisenhower, but I have no firm information on that.
We know that Eisenhower did have meetings with extraterrestrials in 1955, but the ones with Adamski were a little later, I think, offhand, as far as I can remember.
And there was a lot of exchange of important information at that time, and Kennedy was well aware of what was going on.
Adamski allegedly even arranged for Kennedy to go on one of the large motherships.
Fascinating.
Why do you think that the military was giving this open access to Adamski?
Because they felt he was the liaison to these benevolent aliens?
Yeah, he was very highly qualified behind the scenes.
Because my friend Madeleine Rodefer knew him very well, and Adamski stayed at her house until shortly before he died, as a matter of fact, because he went to hospital.
I think that was in 1965, maybe a little bit earlier.
I'm not sure of the precise dates, but that's the time I met Madeleine Rodefer.
And she hosted Adamski for many months in Silver Spring, Maryland.
And I wish I'd been around at the time, but there was a spacecraft sighting.
It's very interesting.
This was in 1965.
And Madeline was there.
Madeline Rodefer was there.
Adamski was there.
Adamski took some movie film with an 8mm camera in color.
And there are some excellent shots.
I don't know if you've seen them, the ones in color.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I spoke to a guy, I'm trying to think of his name now, but he told me that the diameter of the craft, he'd done a lot of work on it, was 27 feet in diameter.
And they had these three spheres underneath the craft, which sort of went up and down.
And they were demonstrating maneuvers that the craft was able to make and everything.
And what I learned was that there were several people from the military there at the time.
On the ground, and this was confirmed for me by General Kenneth Israel, who was in charge of the Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office, DARO, that's right, yeah.
And he invited me to the Pentagon and made it quite clear to me, and there were some junior staff from the various Army, Navy, Air Force.
Cadets and so forth were present when I had this meeting in the Pentagon.
And General Israel confirmed for me that these events did actually happen.
Oh, that's pretty high level confirmation.
The crux of the Adamski story is that the aliens had, at that point, decided to contact us because they were concerned about the environment?
Yeah, nuclear weapons, especially when we started exploding hydrogen bombs in the Pacific Ocean.
Oh, yeah.
Can you imagine anything dafter?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
It's an amazing period of time.
And you can see that that would be certainly a huge call for alarm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Especially, you know, since quite a number of them are here because they have a vested interest in Earth, just as we do.
So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on.
I have no idea what's going on right now.
I mean, I'm not kept up to date by these guys.
Yeah.
So, when you are researching something, you have these intelligence sources and you'll tap them for certain types of information, and then those sources kind of like go back into the woodwork, as it were.
Yeah, I'm always very careful.
I never give the names of my sources away in most cases.
In the case of General Israel, there was absolutely no problem because he was saying it in front of about 20 of us in the room, you know.
When I say 20 of us, they were cadets in the various armed services.
So, you know, he stated that and he made it quite clear that what happened in Silver Spring, Maryland in 1965 was a reality.
Well, certainly the military has a higher awareness of UFO encounters and the alien presence here, I'm sure.
Oh, absolutely.
It's dealt primarily by the military.
Now, you've spent some serious time on one of the most famous cases ever to come out of the UK, and that's the Rendlesham Forest case.
Yes.
This is a case from 1980 where a U.S. colonel and some of his men monitored these ships that beamed lights down onto their base.
And one of the things you've highlighted is that there were sightings right in the area before this incident.
Yes, sir.
There are one or two conflicting reports because, you know, quite a number of people from the U.S. military were involved.
And there's, you know, some people will, there's a lot of contradictions in some of the testimony.
But, you know, having got to know Colonel Holt rather well over the years, as you would imagine, Chuck Holt is a great guy.
I mean, he doesn't bullshit.
Right.
And he just said it happened, Tim, you know, and I saw a lot of what went on.
And we had this, we got the guys out, I taped it, and everything.
So, I would stand by him.
A few of the other witnesses I might be slightly dubious about, but I think there were some absolutely genuine witnesses there because I spoke to at least one of them.
Well, I've spoken to several of them, but one in particular was very convincing back in the early days when the information had only just recently come out.
Oh, right.
Well, you can see the temptation there, which is that Holt is the base commander.
Deputy.
He was then deputy base, just to be pedantic.
Yes, absolutely.
And that was a nuclear base, a US nuclear base in the UK, even though they couldn't admit it at the time.
Of course not.
They couldn't.
There were more.
What I was told was that there were more nuclear weapons stored in Bentwaters Woodbridge than anywhere else in Europe at that particular time, which is why it was indicated to me there was interest from elsewhere.
Yeah, absolutely.
And.
Part of that incident in Rendlesham was these craft flying over the nuclear ordnance and sort of testing it out, firing beams on it.
Absolutely.
They were literally buzzing around the nuclear weapons storage area.
Right.
So we have this incredibly credible source with Colonel Holt, and then you have some of the people who were with him.
And then you might say on the fringe of it, there are some hangers on, maybe.
And those are the ones that have kind of muddied the waters a little bit.
Yes, like, I mean, Larry Warren, for instance.
I mean, I like Larry.
He definitely had exposure.
Chuck Holt thinks he definitely had some exposure, but something was done to him.
There was, I don't know, a type of brainwashing was done to some of the witnesses.
And he didn't go into a great deal of information, but he was sure of that.
Right.
So some of the information that Larry came out with was slightly dubious, but he definitely had some exposure.
Okay.
But I shall never forget the time that he took Peter Robbins and myself out to the middle of a field near the forest, very close to the forest, actually.
As you come out of the forest, there was a field there which was owned by some.
Some woman who tried to get us off the ground, actually.
She was on horseback.
What are you doing here?
Leave my property at once.
Oh, helpful citizen.
And Peter Robbins and Larry were trying to tell me that the craft actually landed there, because Larry didn't see it land where it actually did.
There's a lot of dubious testimony floating around, unfortunately.
Yeah, differing testimony there.
Craft Landed In Field00:14:50
That's very interesting.
And then you have Jim Peniston, who.
We know he was out there and who did originally, he sort of corroborated everything that had gone on with Holt.
Yeah, that elongated triangular craft, I mean, that was very interesting.
Very interesting indeed.
Yeah, and he saw some raised symbols on the craft and touched them.
Yes, that's right, that's correct.
Or at least that's what he claims, and I don't see why it can't be true.
Yes, exactly.
Later, he got this sort of download.
Of numbers and digits from touching this craft, and he wrote them all down, but kept them under wraps apparently for 20 some odd years.
So that's the strange part of the story, I suppose.
It is, and I don't know how much of it to believe.
You know, I'd like to know, but there we are.
Well, Peniston, who was a sergeant at the time, claims that he got this message with the numbers, and that these weren't actually aliens, but were time travelers from the future, which again is outside the main story.
Yes.
But what we know for sure is that over several nights, this craft was observed by high ranking officers like Colonel Holt hovering over the base.
Well, there was certainly one, there may have been several small ones which were buzzing around.
They would have been the probes, but there was a, one of them was definitely a triangular craft.
I think it was no more than about 15 feet in diameter, in length rather, I should say, based on sketches I've seen and the descriptions by the witnesses.
I doubt whether it was manned, but it may have been.
But sure as hell, nobody got out of it.
Right, right.
Exactly.
And then we have, I think it's the second night of the sightings, is when Colonel Holt goes out to check out what's going on, and he goes out with a team.
Yes.
And then he sees it, he experiences it, and he makes an audio recording, which I think was something that was not meant to get out, but did.
But did, yes.
I've got all that on tape.
It's interesting.
I think the genuine shock and anxiety in Colonel Holt's voice on that tape really authenticates that whole encounter for me.
Yeah, me too.
So let's listen to a short clip of the recording of Colonel Holt in real time, witnessing this UFO hovering over the Bentwaters base.
We're at 315 now.
We've got an object about 10 degrees directly south, 10 degrees off the horizon.
And the ones in the north are moving.
What's moving away from us?
Moving, moving.
Moving out fast.
This one on the right takes away too.
Yeah, we're both heading north.
Okay, here, here, he comes from the south.
He's coming toward us now.
Now we're observing what appears to be a beam coming down to the ground.
This is unreal.
But you'd have to say that that is along the lines of a Roswell style incident and that it's such a.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, so many witnesses.
Exactly.
You mentioned a few interesting cases that aren't given a lot of attention.
One of them is this case of Leo Dvorshak?
Yes, Dvorshak.
Dvorak?
Dvorak?
I don't know how the Americans would pronounce that.
We say Dvorak in Czechoslovakia.
Yeah, Dvorak.
I'm not a Czech.
Right.
But, yeah, I mean, that was for real, yeah.
With the Leo Dvorak case, he was in North Dakota, and he and his brother.
He and his younger brother, yes.
I mean, this was in the 1930s, for heaven's sakes, and it went on for decades.
And as you know, I mean, they were what, like about 10 and 12 or something when it started in Killdeer.
Was it North Dakota?
I think it was North Dakota, wasn't it?
Yeah, well, what's interesting is I think later in life he lived in Montana, and there's a little confusion about where it happened, but apparently it's North Dakota.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he, again, with these aliens that he meets, they're human looking.
Very much so, yes.
So here we have this kind of.
Ametizia style alien.
He was the human looking, almost perfect looking, with the blonde hair.
Yeah, and their approach was over a long period.
I think they were very clever about that, so as not to scare the boys.
And eventually, the boys were taken in on board the craft and shown everything, and they had fun.
I remember the one with the armchair that glided around the cabin inside, and Leo, or his younger brother, Mike, Zooming around inside the craft, which must have been relatively large, I would have thought.
But I'd love to have seen some diagrams or photographs of that craft.
Maybe one day they'll turn up.
I do believe him.
I did meet him.
I spent time with him in Montana, and I thought he was very, very interesting.
Well, he must have been elderly by the time you met him.
He was.
He was.
In fact, he died about a year after I had.
I'd met him.
Fascinating.
And what was his basic message about what happened to him meeting these aliens?
What did he say?
Yeah, they gave him a lot of information over the years.
Tremendous, tremendous amount of information.
And they had contacts which spanned decades, as I said.
There were other sightings.
There was a sighting in 1950 in Helena.
This witness, Mrs. Ida Welch, reported an object that looked like two soup plates put together, and it was larger than a bomber.
And, you know, so things were going on around that time.
Incredibly active.
You know, the thing with Leo Dwarshak, I mean, it was started in 1932, you know, which is quite an early time.
Well, it predates Roswell by about 15 years.
Yeah.
Right away, so we know we're dealing with a much earlier.
Phenomenon.
And these craft were saucer shaped craft, again.
Absolutely.
And they were eventually taken on.
It took a while.
I mean, all sorts of invisible barriers were put in front of them so they couldn't get any near.
And eventually the barriers were dropped.
Not that you could see anything, but I remember that Leo describes birds crashing into this invisible screen.
Wow.
So they had the ability to cloak themselves there.
Yes.
The craft was landing.
Like a complete cone covering their craft so that nothing could harm their craft while they were outside, at any rate.
I think they were sort of walking around.
Checking the soil and stuff.
Do you think there was anything about the Vorschach brothers that the aliens wanted to interact with them for some special reason?
Because do you think that they had psychic ability?
Did you get that impression?
No, I wouldn't say necessarily psychic ability.
I think that they were so keen to establish what was going on and they sort of didn't do anything stupid.
And that they were gradually, over a period of months, And eventually taken on board the craft, where they had a good deal of fun, I think, zooming around in a chair.
But you know, if they're in there, you know, after a while, they just start sort of enjoying the technology.
Yes.
And you do mention that there's a case that's similar to theirs, which is a French case, and there again, we're dealing with blonde aliens.
Yes.
Oh, that's Monet.
That's Pierre Monet.
Pierre Monet, yes.
Who was Titia, who encountered a landed craft in France.
But there were quite a few of these things going on at that time.
Yeah, it's so interesting.
Do you feel now that there are amazing sightings that still happen now, but the interaction part seems to have gone underground a little bit?
Yeah, I think so.
Do you think there's a reason for that?
Or do you think maybe they felt that they overplayed their hand?
Do you know?
I honestly don't know, Daniel.
I really have no idea.
I wish I did, but.
It's like I haven't the faintest idea what's going on right now, and I've never seen one of these craft up close.
I'd very much like to.
Occasionally seen them in the distance, but very, very rare occasions throughout my life.
Right, yeah.
Nothing close up.
Nothing close up.
I mean, I'd love to go on board one, but if I could see one close up, that would be good enough for me.
Yeah, absolutely.
Hover outside my apartment, I'll get some nice pictures and stuff.
But on the cover of the book, you have something very interesting in my edition, which is a quote from Lord Hill Norton.
Yes.
And can you tell me about it?
Because I'm familiar with him, and he's, again, one of these very high ranking officers that.
He was.
He was chief of the defense staff in the Ministry of Defense for many years, and later he became chairman of the NATO Military Committee.
And I spent quite a lot of time with him.
He was quite a, how shall I say, severe type of gentleman.
You couldn't mess around with him.
You'd start talking about something, explaining it something, and suddenly he'd bark, Get on with it!
Oh, yeah, all right.
I mean, you can imagine because he was in charge of this and that and everything.
I like that he stood up for the Rendlesham Forest.
Oh, gosh, yes, I mean, he had a lot to risk, I think, for his reputation.
So I had the highest regard for him.
And what was your impression?
Did you have the impression that he understood that UFOs were a reality and were being suppressed?
Oh, yes.
I don't think he had any.
He might have had some private input, but I don't know.
There were a lot of interesting things going on in the early days.
I mean, for example, Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley, who I got to know, he was a decorated war hero flying mosquitoes.
I think he came down in the English Channel, something like that, I forget, in his plane.
But I mean, he had a terrific career during World War II and everything, and afterwards.
He told me that in 1952 he was in the Ministry of Defence.
Now, I didn't learn this until much earlier this year, but somebody told me that the Ministry of Defence is actually run by the United States Air Force.
And it always has been.
And I'll give you an example because Sir Peter Horsley in 1952 was in the operations room at the time of the height of the UFO sightings.
There was NATO involved and everything.
You may recall all that in the Denmark area and everything that was going on.
And this Sir Peter Horsley, high ranking Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley, went up to this American general in the so called British Ministry of Defence, which is completely run by the Americans to this day, and said, Can you tell us what's going on?
And the chap said, I haven't the faintest idea.
Wow.
You know.
What he actually said was, he said, I can't divulge it.
I can't tell you.
Timothy, what do you think of the work of someone like Nick Pope, who was so closely associated with the military and then has come out and explored a number of cases?
But a lot of people who are in the UFO community have kind of a mixed view of him and what he'll actually come out.
And say on the record.
Yes, that's true.
I mean, Nick's been a very good friend of mine for decades.
I'm well aware that, you know, in print at any rate, he's very reticent to come out with stuff.
That's true.
And, I mean, he is Ministry of Defense, and, you know, he can't step beyond a certain point.
He has to be conservative when he comes out and says.
He does.
He does.
He's a good guy, you know, and I pick up.
One or two things from him which are very interesting periodically.
I haven't seen him for a long time, at least a year and a half, because he's spending a lot of time in America these days.
Yeah, yeah, right.
You, with the new book, paperback edition coming out, you should come back through the US and do a book tour.
I mean, I'd like to do it.
Maybe I'll suggest it to them.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, there's a great interest here, and your books are the best on the topic.
Absolutely.
If you come over, we'll do a whole episode right here.
Oh, okay, sure.
I definitely think there's a lot of people here who are looking for this kind of information, and of course, they know you, they're aware of you.
No, no, I'd love to do that.
No reason why we can't do something along those lines.
Fantastic.
That would be terrific.
You know, I have to say, in looking at the work that you've done, one of the things you brought out in the book, and it's a case that you mention a lot, and I couldn't close out our interview without getting you to talk about it, which is the Antonio Villas Boas case.
Now, this is a Brazilian who, and this is before, this predates the Betty and Barney Hill sighting abduction case.
And can you tell me a little bit about this?
The Antonio Villas Boas Case00:02:42
Villa's birth, to me, is one of the most convincing cases.
I mean, I think it happened in 1957.
Right.
In Minas Gerais in Brazil.
And he was 23 years old at the time, and he was plowing a field when a bizarre looking machine landed with.
Blinding lights.
I mean, it's extraordinary.
I don't know if you've seen pictures of it, sketches of which he made of the craft.
And it's in fact, there is one in the book on page 344.
Right, looking from above, a sort of aerial view of the craft, if you like.
And four, five foot tall humanoids emerged, dressed in tight fitting overalls and helmets.
And apparently, the silvery tubes ran backwards from the top of those helmets.
They had pale colored eyes and they grabbed hold of Villas Boas and dragged him on board this craft via a ladder, communicating with each other in peculiar slow barks and yelps.
And there was another male humanoid on board.
And prior to being introduced to, there was a woman on board apparently, that was the object of the exercise.
Antonio was divested of his clothes, sponged down with a thick.
Clear liquid and led to a room where he remained alone for half an hour or so.
And then eventually, a woman, naked woman, came in and extracted useful biological fluids from him, I think on two occasions, and over a four hour period.
Does he describe her as a beautiful woman?
No, ugly.
In fact, although a sexual act took place twice, he actually found the woman ugly.
And he was later at a loss to understand how he could have gone through with it.
Well, they got it wrong.
Obviously, they didn't get the human attraction part down.
No.
So they sponged him down, and it kind of like perfume, right?
Yes, you're right.
Yes.
He was divested of his clothes, sponged down with a thick, clear liquid.
God knows what that was, and then led to a room where he remained alone for half an hour.
I see.
After which, grayish smoke exuded from small metallic.
Tubes causing him to vomit.
Unbelievable.
And then this woman came in, four and a half feet tall.
Four and a half feet tall.
With very fair, almost bleached hair reaching halfway down her neck, and Chinese type eyes, high cheekbones.
Flown To Show Other Crafts00:04:30
Very interesting.
Yeah, well, she doesn't sound very ugly from that description, but I see what you mean.
He has sexual relations with her, and then later she indicates to him during the abduction that she's pregnant from that interaction, that that's what's going to happen.
Oh, okay.
After.
He has the sexual interaction with her, and then she points to her stomach and points at the sky.
Oh, that's right, yes.
Yes.
Which is obviously, you know, trying to give him some indication about what's going on.
That's right, yes.
He pointed to himself and then pointed to the ground, finally to the sky toward the south.
And then he says he made a sign for me to step back and disappeared into the machine.
And then the ladder became shorter, and slowly the craft began to rise vertically, and all the headlamps and revolving.
Revolving dish all became brighter.
I mean, it's fascinating.
I wish I'd seen it.
Yeah, absolutely.
I've never been close to one of these things.
It's not fair, is it?
Well, after having spent so much time on it, I know.
Well, at least I think with the friendship case and the Adamski case, there is interesting footage there.
Very, very interesting.
I think it gives us a good idea of what they look like up close.
Although it's old footage, so you wish that somebody would get a really good sort of digital shot of that.
You're right.
Yes, you're right.
But I will show that.
Diagram on page 344 in the video because I think it is fascinating.
Villas Boas, now people might say, well, this was some guy, he was working in a field, you know, whatever.
He became later in life a lawyer.
A high court judge, I think.
High court judge, yeah.
As I recall.
He's moving on, you know.
This was a very quality guy and smart guy, and he never backed off of his story.
No, and in fact, I think if you read in the book, as I recall, he was.
Taken to several important places by the Americans.
I think he was flown to places and shown another craft similar to the one that he'd been on.
Do you recall that, Ben?
Yes, exactly right.
The intelligence agencies wanted to figure out what the experience was all about and they kind of interrogated him.
Yes, they did.
And they regarded him very highly.
And so, you know, I find all that absolutely fascinating.
Timothy, what do you think?
The government, especially the American government, is doing with all this information, and why don't they let it out?
Well, I mean, I do get information periodically from people who, of course, I can never name.
And one of them was, you know, well, I certainly named one.
Yes.
General Israel.
General Kenneth Israel.
And.
You know, there were lots of youngsters there in naval, air force, and army uniform, waiting to hear what I had to say and everything.
And he actually made it quite clear to me that the film of the craft, the Adamski type craft, taken over Madeleine Rodefus' house in 1965, was the real thing.
And that was in front of other people.
So, you know, to learn that in the Pentagon, I think, is quite something.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
Well, Timothy, your research has brought The Adamski case and the Amicitia case out of the shadows, along with others.
And, you know, your body of work around the topic of alien contact is a real education and a fantastic journey.
So, thanks so much for taking the time to tell us about it and to tell us about the new book.
That's my pleasure.
Yeah.
I hope you do come over to the U.S. for the book tour next year.
And if you do, we'll have you in the studio and we'll do an episode then.
Absolutely.
Will you please remind me periodically?
You bet.
Thank you so much.
Okay, we'll talk soon.
Thank you, Daniel.
Thank you for joining me for this fascinating episode on Aliens, Good and Evil with bestselling author Timothy Goode.
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