Chris Cottrell argues Carolina Bays formed 125,000 years ago via ice ejecta from a Laurentide Ice Sheet impact, rejecting the Younger Dryas timeline and conventional wind-water theories. Citing Michael Davis's mapping of 70,000 depressions and LiDAR data showing elevations contradicting rising sea levels, he contends that lack of direct cosmic debris stems from ice re-entry rather than rock. While academia dismisses these features as Aeolian formations rooted in unreviewed 1977 work, Cottrell insists catastrophic bolide airbursts explain their perfect elliptical orientation toward Michigan's Great Lakes, urging new geological investigations to challenge established narratives. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Understanding Thunderstorm Generators00:02:14
What's up, Chris?
Danny, good to see you.
Good to see you too, man.
Yep, yep.
The last time we saw each other, we were at the Cosmic Summit.
Yeah.
You guys had just rolled in, and I presented like first thing in the morning.
And I think, I don't know what time you guys came out, but it was probably like nine, 10 o'clock, something like that.
Something like that.
And so I caught you guys in the hallway, and I had my elevator pitch ready to go.
Like, I got to go talk.
Danny, man, we got to get this taken care of.
And right when I was actually talking with Steve, and right when I started getting into it, George Howard shows up with Malcolm Bendall.
Oh, man.
With his thunderstorm generators.
And yeah, that kind of stole the show.
Oh, my God.
What a crazy fucking situation that is.
That whole thunderstorm generator and all that stuff they got going on.
Yeah, I was actually with you guys when we went to go see those thunderstorm generators.
He was there telling us all about it.
I got a couple pictures of them, of you guys.
Checking those things out.
What were your thoughts?
Wild shit, man.
I don't know.
I don't know what to think of it.
I know it's crazy.
It's hard to comprehend what's going on there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of where I was at with it, too.
I was really hoping to get there and just have the full picture and kind of understand the whole thing.
I'm a science educator, and so my job is to take complex scientific ideas and break them down so that 17 and 18 year old kids can understand it.
And I'm just having a hard time with that one.
So I kind of get Like the premise, I kind of understand what's happening with and why they call it like the thunderstorm generator, uh, where it's bringing in hot air from one side and cold air from the other side.
And, um, and it was actually Bob Grenier that kind of helped me understand it a little bit better, um, with the ball lightning that's taking place inside of it.
And that's what's happening.
Um, but, uh, yeah, I don't know.
I didn't get the, yeah, kind of.
Do you remember going to the mall when you were little and seeing and seeing like the rainbow salesman, the vacuum cleaner guys?
Oh, yeah, of course.
They're still there.
Yeah.
I kind of felt like, We're trying to get, you know, trying to hit a rainbow sales.
Ancient Origins in Alaska00:12:35
So, so, yes.
Yeah.
It was neat.
Like I said, I just, I just, I was really hoping to leave there with like a much better picture of what was happening with that thing.
And I didn't see it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's definitely a really, it's a lot going on there.
And there's a lot to understand.
And yeah, we'll see.
We'll see what happens.
Yeah.
We'll see if I figure something out.
But so, so you teach, where do you teach?
What do you teach?
Well, so I teach in coastal Georgia and I teach.
For like 23, 24 years, I've been teaching environmental science and earth systems.
And so, you know, what we're going to talk about today is like right down my alley.
You know, it's something that I've been focusing on for a really long time.
And like I said, my job as an educator is to take those complex ideas and break them down for high school kids to understand.
And even like with the thunderstorm generator, you know, the same thing with the Carolina Bays.
Like once we get into it, it's like that's not adding up.
Like they're not following those scientific Processes to come up with the correct explanation for how they're formed.
And so that kind of started this whole thing off with me with the Carolina Bays.
But that's what I teach, like I said, I teach kids.
And the whole thing is about the scientific process.
And that's kind of where I've been focusing on it with the Carolina Bays.
So, what are the Carolina Bays?
So, they're elliptical depressions that we find all over the eastern coastal plain from.
From south, you know, from just under New York all the way down through the Carolinas, through Georgia.
There are a few in Alabama.
And then you kind of don't see very many of them until you get to around Nebraska.
And then they pick back up in Nebraska.
And so you have these elliptical-shaped depressions in Nebraska.
So they're all very similarly shaped.
They all have this elliptical orientation to them.
The orientation itself is actually pointing towards the Great Lakes of Michigan, which is kind of a telling sign of what they could be.
They're elliptical, and they're pointing towards the Great Lakes of Michigan.
Yeah, yeah.
What do you mean pointing?
Like they are oriented towards, they all have that.
Oh, okay.
So they're like they're egg shaped, kind of.
Well, they are perfect ellipses.
Most of them are, you can actually mathematically outline them, and they are perfect ellipses.
And the orientation itself.
Had they actually been measured?
Yeah, yeah.
There's a guy we'll talk about, Michael Davius.
He's measured over 70,000 of these things.
Wow.
Yeah, and measured them, labeled them.
He actually has a survey, it used to be called the Carolina Bay survey, but now it's the.
Ovoid Basins Survey, because he started included some depressions that we find in Texas and things like that.
They're not all Carolina Based.
Plus, we got the ones in Nebraska too, so you know why we really need to get away from calling them Carolina Bays, when they're, you know, found all over the place right, so right.
So what is the conventional explanation for what these are?
Well uh, so the conventional explanation is that they are well.
Well, first of all, there have been quite a few hypotheses on what they could have been Back in the 1930s, and I've got an image here, but back in the 1930s, when we finally had people flying in airplanes and being able to look down onto the ground overall, they first discovered them in places like Myrtle Beach.
They started finding them in the Cape Fear River Valley.
And they would start to take surveys, they would start to take a bunch of pictures.
And back then, that's all they had was aerial photographs, and then they would paste them all together.
And even back then, this was back in the 1930s, and they originally thought.
That these were created by meteors.
They thought that this was wild yeah, that they were a cosmic event.
Um, George Howard has a story about his uh, his boss when he was working in uh, working on, I think he was in the Senate, um, and uh his his, his boss, the senator, had property that had a whole bunch of these Carolina bays on it, and he told him the whole story about how yeah, back in the 30s and 40s man, they thought that these things were meteor holes and uh, they'd all go out and start expect, you know, looking for meteors, but nobody ever found any right, and so that kind of um kind of you know,
Pushed the thinking towards more of a uniformitarianism process.
Like, well, if they're not meteors, then they must be something more terrestrial.
It must be something, you know, because that's what uniformitarianism is that, you know, the terrain changes one gust of wind and one grain of sand at a time.
And so the whole thought process shifted away from a catastrophic event to it being more of a terrestrial or uniformitarianism process.
Create these things, and that's kind of where they're at with the now, even today, you know, a hundred nearly a hundred years later.
Uh, they they still here, these are some of the uh hypotheses that they had come along with, you know, from the 1930s to now.
Um, and there's there's a list of them here, like spring basins.
Um, you know, at one time, is that on the very top right?
Is that one of the Carolina Bay?
No, no, it's not.
That's um, what is that?
I think that's a crater.
I think that's actually a crater.
That's an actual crater, yeah.
Um, there are some people that think that they were beaver dams.
And again, we're still going back and forth.
Whole time from the 1930s until really the 1970s, it was back and forth, back and forth with uh terrestrial versus catastrophic um explanation for how they formed, um, extraterrestrial bays, yeah, yeah.
Uh, so so you know, they even some people even thought that they were beaver ponds that were like super flashed uh from a bolide event um that took place and and like flash steamed the uh the ground causing these uh some people thought that they were giant fish or whales or something you know swimming around in circles and.
you know, making nests in the terrain of South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia.
And, yeah.
Are there no, there's no, nothing that looks like this anywhere else in the world?
Yeah, there, I mean, there are, there are oriented lakes found all around the world.
And this happens a lot where a lot of times the oriented lakes get brought into the conversation to dismiss these Carolina bays being so symmetrical.
And, you know, I just, the presentation that I gave this past summer was, called pseudo Carolina Bay's because when you start looking at the Carolina Bay's themselves, they're so numerous.
There's so many of them that, you know, they're the dominant feature.
Like they are the dominant feature on the East Coast.
I would say maybe even second to, to like the rivers that flow along the coast.
And so I, you know, I've got a bunch of examples.
Can we see the ones that are used to just to discredit the Carolina Bay's?
Yes.
They say that.
And how do they use those other ones that are, and where are they also?
So most of the time, so.
There's a couple different kinds.
Like I said, the presentation I gave this summer, I kind of went through all of them.
I went through a whole bunch.
And so here's a list that I put together of the different oriented lakes that oftentimes get used as explanations for the Carolina Bays.
I'll go back later and talk more about what the current hypothesis is.
None of them are ellipses, none of them have raised rims.
So we have a bunch of different types.
Like this is a big one, the thermocarst lake hypothesis is that, and we do find these.
You can see the images right here.
We do find them up in the Arctic Circle.
In Alaska, you find them over in Russia.
You also find them down in South America, like very South America.
But they all occur in places where you have permafrost.
And so permafrost is permanently frozen soil.
And that means that it's frozen all year long.
Only the very top layers thaw out during the summertime.
The water pools in those areas, and then the wind blows them, and they start to form these circular shapes.
But I wouldn't call any of those really elliptical.
Now, this is an area in Alaska.
That's wild.
Yeah, yeah, this is an area in Alaska.
And I could see if you were just scanning through these images, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what formed a Carolina base.
But the areas where we find these Carolina bays are nothing like this.
And even during the middle of the Ice Age, even during the middle peak part of the last Ice Age, there wasn't permafrost like this.
And that's the time frame that they were saying that the Carolina bays were formed.
That really helps when you look at it with the LIDAR.
And it's something that I want to kind of focus on today is just the use of this LiDAR and how much it should be progressing the research on Carolina bays.
So this right here is an image of the Thermocarst Lakes in Alaska using LiDAR.
And we don't see the same features that we see with the Carolina bays.
Like we don't see the raised rims that you would see with all those Carolina bays.
We don't see that perfect elliptical shape.
And the orientations are all kind of off.
And they kind of bleed in together too.
So, when you compare that to places like this, and this is in South Carolina, it's close to McIntyre Air Force Base.
And again, this is just using Google Earth, which, you know, 20 years ago, we didn't really have.
And so within the past 20 years, we've had Google Earth.
And now within the past like 10, 10 to 12 years, we can add the LiDAR to the terrain itself.
Oh, wow.
And now we see how many of these elliptical depressions completely covered everywhere.
They're so random, too.
They're everywhere.
So these are Carolina bays.
And they're not all the same shape, they're all different.
Well, so this is kind of a, it's, it's, it's, Almost the terrain is steep right here.
So the Carolina Bay is formed a little bit differently here just because of how they.
We think that these were catastrophic ice ejecta.
We can get into that in a few minutes.
But the terrain here having that steepness to it causes it to deform as it's being formed.
Another example that they often get confused with is the Playa Lakes, or the, we find these in Texas.
You also find them in places like Australia.
You always find them in river basins or areas where you had sheet flooding, where a tremendous amount of water flooded over the terrain, like you find in Texas.
Here's an area in Texas that's kind of close to, this is the city of Amarillo.
And when you look at the LIDAR of that area.
Holy shit.
Right.
Now, again, these are ply lakes.
These are oriented lakes that were created from water as water flowed over this plain at the time.
Right.
So these probably formed before all of this was formed.
This was all underwater?
A long time ago.
A long, long time ago.
How long ago?
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
I don't know about Amarillo, how far up that was.
But this is formed.
And basically, what happens is well, I can go back to how they're formed here, where you have, it's usually very arid areas and you have lower water tables.
And so, when it rains, the water pools up in areas and then it dries.
And so, you get these cracks.
And so, the next time it rains, the water quickly goes into the cracks, fills it back up.
And then, you know, so you do end up with these like circular depressions that we see, you know, here.
Makes sense.
But you also see that all of them have like a low point where there's some of them still have water in them.
Right.
But yeah, those aren't Carolina bays.
Okay.
They're Playa Lakes.
Okay.
Here's another area in South Carolina.
Again, these are.
Going to be Carolina Bay.
This is close to Shaw Air Force Base.
I should probably stop focusing on like areas around Air Force bases.
But is there any, is there, what is the, to you, what is the biggest smoking gun that these are meteor impacts?
I've always had a problem with keeping a firearm in reach and safe around the kids.
A closet or a traditional safe is too far away.
And I remember when I was a kid finding my parents' firearms, and I don't want that happening to my kids.
Distinguishing Playa Lakes from Bays00:14:39
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I don't think they are meteor impacts.
What do you think they are?
I don't think they are.
So, so, what I think they are.
And again, I can go all the way back uh, to that original slide with the uh the catastrophic versus the uh the uniformitarianism explanation.
Um, I do think that they formed very quickly catastrophically um, but now, like I said, we have better, we have the the better uh, technology.
Now, with the, with the Google Earth, we have the Lidar um, all these things added together yeah um look, it's Pinellas County.
Yeah well I, I went ahead and made that for you.
Um, this is yeah, this is the area.
This is here right, this is what the Was that?
Oh, bless you.
I was like, what was this?
Is uh, this is the area around St. Pete, yeah.
And um, and again, this is just showing the importance of the LIDAR.
I mean, there's so many people here, dude, dude, there are so many people in this area.
Most populated counties, I swear, dude, they're everywhere.
It's like three million people here.
I can't believe it after the pandemic is filled up, yeah.
But now, after we had just got hit by her two hurricanes, people are starting to leave again.
No, they're there.
I took a drive down to the beach, man.
They're everywhere.
It's ridiculous.
It's not nearly as bad as it was two years ago.
I promise you that, yeah, yeah.
So, anyways, again, this whole area is completely urbanized, right?
You've got houses, you've got highways and roads, and you can't see anything that used to be there 200 years ago.
This is not there anymore.
But when you click on, when you use the LIDAR, even in areas like this that are super populated, it really highlights like the ground.
It highlights what the ground actually looks like.
Holy crap.
Yeah.
Now, this is all done by Michael Davius.
He, well, we'll talk about him later on because it's kind of a, A big deal with some of these hypotheses.
Look how low that peninsula is.
Look at that Tampa Bay.
That's where Patrick's, or not Patrick, McDill Air Force Base is right there.
Got a nice golf course over there.
Yeah.
That shit would be all underwater.
Yeah, yeah.
And it does go underwater when you have like hurricanes.
Oh, yeah.
No, it was underwater a couple months ago.
Right, right.
And you can actually use maps like this to see like, well, where are the safest places to be if the hurricane's coming.
That's wild.
Can you punch in on that a little bit?
I can't with this, no, because it's an image.
Okay.
I could if you wanted to.
I mean, The access to this lidar.
Look at that freaking cut going all the way through the peninsula.
Yeah, yeah.
So that cut was formed the last time sea levels were a lot higher, which was 125,000 years ago.
It's called the Eamion.
So 125,000 years ago, sea levels were actually higher than they are today by about nine meters, I think, about 30 feet.
Okay.
And that's 30 feet doesn't seem like a big deal, but when you start looking at how flat these areas are, that's a huge deal.
30 feet.
My house is 30 feet above sea level.
So it'd be right at my house.
Right at your door, yeah.
So, and, and, you know, I don't.
We're not going to dox you here, but you're probably somewhere on one of those areas.
Yeah, you're probably somewhere on one of those higher up areas.
And so, what Michael Davis said, you see that our studio is right at that, like right on the edge, like you see the outer barrier island there.
It's like right, very far left, all the way to the very edge by the Gulf.
Okay.
So the barrier island is there, and then immediately across the bay, you have red.
That's where we are right here.
Yep.
Yeah.
So, yeah, yeah.
And I went down to Indian Rocks Beach earlier.
So I was at the beach today, you know, and.
Went up in elevation to get to the studio.
Right.
And you can see that with this.
What Michael Davies has done is he's taken USGS LiDAR and he has color coded it by meters.
Have you ever used a topographic map before?
Yeah.
Yeah, so topographic maps have lines and you have to know how to read the lines and each line is a certain distance above or below the elevation.
And what he did is he actually made this color code where each color is one meter higher.
And so you start off with blue and you go one meter, one meter, one meter, all the way up to 10 meters and then it starts over.
So as you're going from blue up to this next blue, that's 10 meters, right?
So, all the way around.
So, this blue right here is 10 meters above sea level.
If you keep going up, you would end up at 30 meters above sea level.
Oh, okay.
Interesting.
So, it's really interesting because it shows you not just where the elevated areas are, but if you know how to read it, you can actually measure how high they are based on the color codes, which is super helpful.
So, purple could either be below sea level or nine meters above sea level.
Well, the blue is always going to be the sea level.
So, the very bottom blue is like zero.
But it's like purple at the very, very bottom.
Where are you looking at?
At the bottom of your little graphic?
Oh, well, that's because it starts back over here.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
So we start there.
This is actually zero right here.
Got it.
And it starts back over here.
So if you just focus on red, for instance, that red is right there.
We see another red right there.
So that's another 10 meters above where the first red was.
Right.
And in these really flat areas, that's really helpful, right?
If you go to the mountains with this LiDAR, it's really confusing.
It's just colored all the way up.
Yeah.
But a lot of these areas where we find Carolina bays are super flat, super flat.
And so having.
A LIDAR like this that you can, and I access with this with Google Earth.
You can go right onto Google Earth.
It's free.
All of your listeners can log on to centos.org and download this program and use it with your own Google Earth.
It's really neat.
That's so crazy, man.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
That big cut that's going right through.
Yeah, again, big river just going right through.
Well, because it was a big river.
It was, you know, last time sea levels were higher, water flowed through here.
And now the whole area has been lifted up.
I have no clue what's here now.
I can go back.
Oh, look at that.
Yeah, is there a channel there or maybe a ditch or something?
I don't know.
Yeah, no, it looks like there.
I think there is a little river that might flow all the way through there.
Yeah.
That's wild.
It's probably a drainage ditch or something now.
Yeah, it's probably drainage, right, exactly.
But that's only because it's so low that water's draining through that anyway.
Right, right.
And that big circular area is interesting, too.
Right, so this was a barrier island.
You said that a minute ago.
That was a barrier island 125,000 years ago when sea levels were higher.
Yeah.
God damn, that's interesting.
It is cool.
I would love to just explore the entire United States on the LIDAR.
You can.
Like I said, centos.org.
He has the entire continental U.S. color-coded and mapped just like this.
What is it?
Centos?
Centos.
C-I-N-T-O-S.
Here, I think I got it.
Yeah, I've got it on this slide right here.
This is Michael Davis right here.
He's the guy.
He is a computer scientist, and he's actually turned his processing skills towards geology and mapping these Carolina bays using this ladder.
So you see all those red dots.
He's actually gone in, measured, oriented, and mapped every single one of these Carolina bays that we find on the train.
Yeah, it's really impressive.
So, what did he find?
Going back, you said you don't think they're comet impacts.
I do not think they're the result of a single comet impact.
You mean it's ice?
Not comet impact.
I would say actually an asteroid impact.
You think it's just ice fragments?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Secondary ice fragments from Michigan.
All of these have orientation back to the Great Lakes, back to Michigan.
Right.
So a comet hit or an asteroid hit the Great Lakes ice cap and then ejected just tons of fragments of ice south.
Or something like that happened, yeah.
And then I'll get to that just while I'm on it.
I don't know if we're still showing that.
But yeah, so this is the train that we see now.
The LIDAR really helps when you get up to these really flat areas in the middle part of Georgia.
And like I said, I do think that these are the result of some kind of cosmic impact into an ice sheet.
At some point in the past, that's the debatable part to me is like when did it happen?
We can talk, we'll talk about that, I'm sure.
Um, but yeah, you know, this page right here it's just uh, you know, shows kind of the whole story written in the landscape where you've got the Carolina Bays, uh, all on the east coast, the entire coastal plain is covered with them.
Uh, you go across to Nebraska, like this image right here shows you, all these are the Carolina Bays, all the way on the other side, Nebraska, you've got these elliptical shaped depressions that are oriented in the opposite direction of the Carolina Bays, but they're all oriented to the same place on a map.
How so?
Like these right here, if we line them up, they line up right above Michigan.
Right above Michigan.
Oh, okay.
So you're saying the shape of the ellipse is oriented towards the same direction.
Interesting.
Oh, wow.
Go back to that last one.
Oh.
Now, again, a lot of this.
Laurentide.
Yeah, the Laurentide Ice Sheet is the name of the ice sheet that was over Canada.
Basically, whenever we're in an ice age, and we go through ice ages over and over and over again.
Right.
And every time that we go into an ice age, ice piles up on top of Canada.
And the sea levels drop tremendously.
They drop really, really low.
The last time they dropped, it was like 400 feet lower than it is today.
So go down to the beach, take a boat, go out as far as you can go until the death readers are even 400 feet lower.
And that's where the beach was.
That's far.
Yeah.
And 20,000 years ago, that's where it was at.
And it is far.
Especially here because the Gulf is shallow.
Yes.
Gulf of America.
Yeah.
That's actually why I had to go to the beach today to get a picture of the Gulf of America.
But, um, But yeah, yeah.
So, and another interesting thing too is when you get to where they all cross, this is the actual bedrock geology of Michigan.
Okay.
And I don't, to me, that looks like a bullseye.
Like that, the ring shaped bedrock geology.
Yeah.
Each one of these different colors is a different type of bedrock.
And that's basically, it's a basin.
It's called the Michigan Basin.
Right.
And basins form, the law of original horizontality says that like sand lays in flat layers, like it's originally laid out flat.
And then, if something were to lift it up or cause it to sink, it has to happen afterwards.
And so, for this to be a basin, it had to have formed flat.
And then, at some time after it was formed, it was depressed down.
And that's what I think.
I think that it was actually an impact over this whole area that caused this depression of Michigan and caused the secondary icy ejecta to fly away and come crashing back down into the coastal plain and pretty much a 1,500 kilometer radius away from.
Michigan.
So, other than the fact that all of these ellipses are angled towards one location where the Laurentide ice sheet was, what hard evidence is there that this was ejections from a comet impact?
Well, that's where we're at now.
I mean, we're trying to fight for evidence for it, you know, because obviously you've got the Carolina bays.
They're there.
The perfect elliptical shapes of them should be very telling.
I'm actually right now working.
trying to get a paper published just showing that we can prove that these are ellipses.
You know, we're using something called the least squared method.
We're identifying and punching, you know, putting dots all around the rims of these things and proving that they're like time after time after time again, these things are actually mathematical ellipses.
And you don't find things like that very often in nature.
Like I showed you a minute ago, all of those oriented lakes, very few of those would actually have identical orientation to each other.
Very, very few of them.
Is there anything like the, like nano diamonds or any of the other materials that you find in cosmic impacts there?
So we're looking.
Now they have found, evidence of Younger Dryas stuff in some of the rims of these Carolina bays.
Um that, that is one of the possibilities.
Is that this could have formed at the Younger Dryas?
Um I, I don't think so anymore and we can get into that a little bit later.
Uh, but I did for a long time think that these were part of the Younger Dryas event.
You guys have been, you've covered the Younger Oh 90 times and I I am on board that that happened, I am on board that.
Uh, we had major fragments bolides, you know, blowing up in the atmosphere.
We find we do find lots of evidence of that And there's been a lot of back and forth of that too.
And that's kind of what makes this a little bit more difficult is because there is a connection between the Carolina Bays and the Younger Dryas.
And the Younger Dryas hasn't been proven yet fully, right?
You know, most of us are like, yes, it happened, right?
But until they it's really hard to prove.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the same thing with this.
If ice formed it, if ice literally was ejected from an initial impact site, an icicle is the perfect murder weapon, right?
You know, once that ice melts, what are you left with?
Right.
Ponds of water.
Yeah.
And that's what.
But wouldn't there also be fragments of the rock of the comet or the meteor?
Like, couldn't there.
If you could find it, then that would be awesome.
But that's what I'm saying.
Is there any evidence of any of that shit in the Carolina Bays?
We've gone looking for it.
No.
Now, I think part of the reason is because nobody's looking.
Like, nobody's going into the apex of these Carolina Bays with.
We tried.
We actually went in.
Searching for Comet Fragments00:15:09
I went with.
Like, digging right into the center, you mean?
Yeah, yeah.
And I have a whole collection of sediment that can be sent off.
We actually, I went with George Howard, Antonio Zamora, Michael Davis.
George Howard, he was a guest on your show.
Yeah.
He used to own a wetlands reclamation company.
They would be contracted out to reform wetlands.
And one of his clients had a Carolina Bay on his property.
Oh, shit.
Yeah, yeah.
And he's big time into this kind of stuff.
Anyway, he's actually, I call him the Godfather of Carolina Bay.
George started, he mentioned it on the show.
with you that that's what got him into it to begin with was the Carolina Bays.
And so he's always been on, you know, trying to push the Carolina Bay thing along.
And so he got permission from the owner to actually, you know, go out and dig this, this Carolina Bay before they turned it back into a wetland.
And we went out there with back hose and, you know, just dug three huge trenches.
And we just went down.
We got, he had some of his crew go down with ladders and take samples like every, like anytime we saw a striation change, he would take samples out of that.
We bagged that stuff up.
I took it back to my, to my classroom and you know, I created a lab.
I actually got in touch with with Alan West, who's like one of the one of the top guys in the comet research group.
We developed a extraction protocol, which is they already have an extraction protocol, but we had to.
We had to make it high school ready, you know, because I was using, my students were doing it and so I was working with like the number one, one of the top guys in the comet research group.
We developed this plan and that that would make sure that we got the same results.
And we started sifting and we started getting all of those.
We got tons of magnetic grains, but The first sample we sent in, we had three trenches.
We had one on the top, and I don't have a picture of this one, but we had one on the top, one in the middle, and then another one on the bottom of the Carolina Bay.
So if it was like one of these, it would be on the top, middle, and then one on the bottom.
Yeah.
And this was a small one.
It was one that we can actually get into.
Small is still huge.
There was a whole farm there that he was using for growing corn or something like that.
But anyway, so we went through the whole process of extracting magnetic grains, and we sent them off, and nothing really stood out that it was younger grass related.
Right.
And it's super expensive.
It was a couple grand.
I don't have that kind of money to send these things in.
George is the one who fronted it all to begin with.
And like I said, we didn't get really promising results with our first go-around.
So we kind of put a pin on it.
We halted it.
And so I still have like two, I still have collection set for the center, the center trench and the southern trench that have not been tested yet because we just don't have the money to do it right now.
Right.
Well, I mean, at least for the younger driest, we do have some pretty solid hard evidence.
Like we have the, they've dug into the black mat layer and found shit like the nano diamonds and like, what is it, iridium or something they found there?
Platinum.
Platinum.
That's what we were looking for.
We're looking for because that's kind of that one is the smoking gun, like if you could find platinum is a rare metal on earth but it's super common in in space.
Uh uh, space rocks and um yeah, they're finding that whole blood.
Just I mean the, the.
We have the white sand stuff.
Like there's so much compelling hard evidence to point to something happening around the 12 500 whatever the younger, driest right hypothesis.
Yeah, 12 800 and something years ago.
Yeah yep um yeah, yeah and so so you know there there's a lot of evidence for that.
They do find That evidence in some of these Carolina base, but they're like in the rims of them.
A lot of times these are archaeologists that do this research.
Chris Moore, and I've got a picture of him on here too, but Chris Moore is, he's one of the leading, I think he is right now, like the leading comet research group guy.
And he's a geoarchaeologist out of South Carolina, maybe North Carolina.
I actually went and helped him on a dig.
That's Micah Hanks there in that picture.
And we're actually looking for.
Clovis and post Clovis sites and things like that.
But he's found evidence of platinum and things like that in the rims of some of these Carolina bays, which is compelling, but not really for the formation.
It just means that those rims were there while they were being occupied and they're finding the platinum there around the same place that you would find the Clovis people.
So it sounds like the Clovis people were using these, and they were.
And that's what he says, that they were really good waterfowl hunting locations.
And so they would go in there looking for ducks and whatever, swans or geese or whatever.
And they even find gall stones in piles where they were processing out the waterfowl, and then the stones would be left behind.
They used to just throw them away because they thought they were pebbles.
And then somebody was like, wait a minute, these are actually like they're from the inside of waterfowl or from the inside of ducks or something.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah.
So they were being used by the Clovis for hunting at that time, which is kind of a strike against the Carolina Bayes being related to the younger Dryas.
And right now, like I said, what they're finding with the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis is that there probably weren't very many direct impacts into the ground, but they were thousands of bolides blowing up in the sky.
It's kind of like, you know, we go through every year we go through.
Like air bursts.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like we have shooting stars.
We go through meteor showers, right?
And we can plan for those.
You know, we have right around the end of October into November, there's a really interesting meteor shower.
And it's related to this because they think that that's the one that caused the Younger Dryas.
But we go through it twice.
It's the torrid media stream.
Yeah, the torrid media stream.
So we go through it at the end of June and then we go through it at the end of October.
And they think it was actually the June passing that there was just like, just instead of it being like, like flakes of sand that were burning up in the atmosphere, there were chunks of stuff just blowing up in the atmosphere.
It was, we just went through a really thick patch.
Didn't this last for like a thousand years?
Well, the, the younger driest lasted for a thousand years.
Yeah.
Like it, like 1200 years.
When I first started, when I first was introduced to the idea, I thought like, okay, it was like a one-time event.
But now it seems like, no, maybe it was like kind of like what we went through in Florida this past summer where we got smashed by two hurricanes in a row.
Maybe that happened for a thousand years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like every, every summer.
We got smashed by meteors or comets.
Yeah, and that could have been exactly what happened.
They're finding evidence that, yeah, this wasn't a one-time event, that there were multiple air bursts.
I always forget the name of this place, but they're finding in the Middle East, it's either Abu Hurairah or Tel Al-Hammam.
It's one of the two.
One was a Bolad event that took place during biblical times.
The other one was much older, like during the Younger Dryas time.
I always get the two mixed up.
Yeah, George was talking about one.
Um, and that was the one that took place during like, the Biblical I think it was the Tell Al-hamam right, the one where the Jordan Valley, the Sodom And Gomorrah one yeah yeah yeah, so that was a little bit more recent than the Young Adras event, but there is right, there was another very similar event that took place in that area right um, you know, 12 800 years ago, and where literally, they find melt glass, like surrounding you know villages and like people blast it up against walls and it's pretty insane.
Yeah um, And you know, so these things happen, you know, we haven't had it happen in a really long time.
The last like big bolide we had was back in 2012 in Chelyabanks.
That's the one in Russia.
That not not the Yeah, yeah, yeah, Not the one that blew out like a whole forest, but like the one that blew up over a town and shattered all the glass and was falling on people.
Oh, yeah, we were watching that in here a couple months ago.
Yeah, yeah, that was in like the 90s, I think right.
Yeah, no, no, that was 2012 Yeah, can you find out what that was Steve?
Find out then when that thing when that happened?
Chalyabanks.
No, the Chichalu.
No, no, that's what he was talking about.
The older one.
Here it is.
It's the Chalyabanks.
Chalyabanks.
And I may be saying it wrong.
Chalyabanks meteor airburst.
That's the one that blew out a bunch of windows.
Right, right.
There's the video.
Yeah, there's videos of people on the highway in Russia.
Right.
Like, holy shit.
And this was a small one.
This was a small one.
Imagine having.
Are we going to show the video?
Because imagine having this happening thousands of times all across the horizon.
Right.
That's.
Probably what was happening.
Yeah, and a thousand times the size.
Like those things go what like 40,000 miles an hour.
Yeah, this is insane like yeah, I don't know, can you get sound on it?
Speck in the sky, soon streaking across the horizon, followed by an almost apocalyptic scene, a blinding flash of light, and then all hell broke loose right, dizzying explosions, shattering windows, knocking these office workers to the ground.
These students were lucky.
They all thought this was it.
Like, they all thought, that's it.
We're done.
So imagine that happening over.
I mean, they probably thought it was like war or something.
If that happened here, my first example would be, okay, Russia fucking sent a nuke.
Yep.
We're done.
Yeah.
The last thing I would, I mean, that, the common impact would probably be like the last thing I would.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so, and then the last time, right?
Oh, my God.
And this is a lot, this is, you know, this one was recorded, and that's great.
Back in 19.
What year was this?
2012.
Yeah, 2012.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
I'm trying to find the raw video.
Yeah, yeah.
The Chi, how do you pronounce it?
Chelyabinsk.
Yeah, I've heard it pronounced different ways.
I'm not fluent in Russian, so.
2012.
There was also a theory that the world was supposed to end in 2012, right?
Maybe.
Yeah, that's true.
Maybe we got lucky with that one little.
I think that one was about the size of the city.
Play that simulation on the top.
Orbit.
And the thing about this one is, it came out of nowhere.
Like, this wasn't even part of a known meteor stream.
It was just a rogue meteor, a little baby one.
Yep.
Like, they weren't even tracking it.
They had no clue it was on this way.
God, man.
Hmm.
So.
Yeah, like, that could have been the one that took out.
Imagine if that was the one that took out the dinosaurs, like, the size of that.
Oh, golly.
Which was like, what?
How many miles?
That one was almost like 11 kilometers.
So.
You know that's a big.
It was a city sizer, I mean city, about the size of a city, you know and it came down and uh, it caused all kinds of stuff just south of where we are right now.
Yeah yeah yeah, down in Gulf Of Mexico um um, that's um, the cheeks who love crater yeah, and they just recently I think last year uh found another crater off the coast of Spain that goes back 65 million years really.
So this may have been a multiple impact that that took other dinosaurs too.
Wow yeah, I don't think these things travel.
I I think that's like a misconception that a lot of us have is that these things are just zinging around in space.
That one kind of was.
But most of these times, they're in orbit around the sun.
And we just happen to cross the path with that orbit.
Right.
You know, it used to be a comet.
The tail was stretching across and all that debris.
You know, we just go through it.
We just go right through it.
You know, we're moving.
It's moving.
And we just right through each other.
And it causes all kinds of devastation.
Oh, this is it?
10 kilometers wide.
How many miles is that?
Something like eight miles.
Whoa.
Yeah.
And it's this one that dates back to like 65 years ago.
It doesn't even look like anything.
Like, if I was looking at that aerial shot, I wouldn't even imagine that was a crater.
Yeah.
Well, it's the same thing with the Chigsu Love crater, the one that gets credit for taking out the dinosaurs.
The only reason why they found out that that was a crater was because of the cenotes.
Have you been down to Mexico?
Like, down to the ancient Mayan ruins and things like that?
A lot of those ruins were built around cenotes, which are.
Uh, these, these like limestone caves they go straight down, they're full of fresh water.
Um, I've seen people do they scuba dive, yeah, that crater all the time.
There's all kinds, there's all kinds, but there's a bunch of them, and they form this like really neat arched, um, like semicircle.
And uh, they they realized that that was actually the rim of the the impact that took out the dinosaurs.
That that the fracturing of the ground, uh, underneath the limestone that had built up above it allowed water to see through, and over time, it's fresh water that that dissolves limestone that creates caves like that.
And so, it was a quick access for water to go through the limestone and form those cenote caves.
And so that really neat arch shape is, you know, you go to the center of that shape and they found the crater.
Wow.
Yeah.
And that was like the 1990s.
Right.
Yeah.
That was, I was in high school, you know, the whole Alvarez black mat, black rock layer, you know, finding, that's when they were finding iridium.
They found really high levels of iridium all around the planet.
It was a father and son team, the Alvarez's, and they were telling everybody, you know, hey, there was an impact.
This is what we think took out the dinosaurs.
We find it all around the planet.
And everyone was like, no, no, no, you find us a crater and then we'll talk.
And it was like the 1990s, the early 1990s when they finally discovered that that Chiksu Lub, that little semicircle in Mexico was part of that crater.
And they're like, everybody's like, okay, all right, you got us.
Did they ever dig, like, if you go way down beneath that crater, is that freaking asteroid still down there?
No, but there's like completely shattered rock.
Like if you go into the Chiksu Lub and dig down, they call it Brescia.
It's just a type of rock that's just completely shattered and then resolidifies.
Um, and that's just full of that.
Um, so when that asteroid hits the ground, it breaks up into a million pieces, it doesn't stay solid.
I don't know, yeah, I don't know.
I'd imagine it does, it like completely destroyed it liquefies, yeah.
Remember, it liquefies and then just ejects into the atmosphere and gets thrown everywhere, yeah.
Holy and a lot of times, a lot of times, what is it?
And what are they made of?
They're made of mostly iron, iron, right?
But then there's a lot of those other rare earth metals, like uh, like the iridium and platinum and things like that.
And so again, this is, but that's a completely different impact.
You know, when you have something slam into the ground like, like what killed the dinosaurs, I mean, that creates a whole chain of events that, that blocks out the sun for months and it kills off all the plants and then all the plant eaters die and the animals.
And so that was why we had that like massive, massive extinction level event at the dinosaurs, which was good because that allowed mammals to become the most dominant species on our planet.
And we're kind of mammals.
So right.
Well, so we kind of.
Well, I should leave.
Apparently, some people think the reptilians are still running the show.
Iron and Rare Earth Metals00:06:27
Yeah.
So, but back to the Younger Dryas, like that is kind of what the Younger Dryas, it's the same story.
Like we're finding platinum in dirt layers that hasn't turned to stone yet, but it would form into a, it is a black mat.
You know, we have this black mat.
We're finding iridium there.
And so there is some really interesting, you know, connections between the dinosaur killer and the Younger Dryas.
But right now we think that the, you know, the real effect of the Younger Dryas was from multiple, multiple bolides and not really big impacts into the ground.
I do think there's evidence of some impacts on the ice sheet higher above Michigan.
There's a couple places.
Randall Carlson and I did a podcast a couple months ago, and we kind of highlighted a couple of these places that could possibly be younger dry ice impact sites.
And there's like three of them in a row.
It's kind of neat.
And one's like Lake St. John.
Another one's, I can't remember the other two, but they're all like in a row right across Canada.
But I don't think that the Carolina Bays were formed during the younger dry ice.
I don't think.
And why not?
When do you think they were formed?
So, well, okay, so there's two main hypotheses for how these Carolina bays formed.
One is at the Younger Dryas, and one of the main proponents for that is Antonio Zamora.
He'll be at the Cosmic Summit with me this summer.
We're actually going to present together.
Are you going to be there this summer?
I'm not sure.
Yeah, well, if you can make it, it's going to be a great time.
Yeah, we had a good time last year.
Yeah, it was fun.
Anyway, so Antonio Zamora and I are going to be there together next year.
And his main thing is that these things happened at the Younger Dryas, and he's got evidence.
But a lot of the evidence is dependent on the younger Dryas being proven correct.
You know, things like the mega mammal extinctions and things like that.
That's where he's, you know.
So he's got that idea 12,800 years ago, 12,900 years ago, that there was an impact into Michigan.
And it was big chunks of ice that came flying out of Michigan.
And as they came, they actually went up into suborbit, froze solid, and then came crashing back down.
And these ellipses are actually the cone.
The cone of depression as the ice re-entered the earth there.
And so they come crashing back down.
The violence of an impact like that, even of ice, because we're talking about so it was raining.
That's his high-five football stadium-sized chunks of tropicana fields coming down onto the coastal plain of, of, of, jeez, Christ.
Yep.
Um, and a lot of these, a lot of these chunks of ice had rocks frozen in them, right?
Because that's what Grandal talks about these giant boulders that are in the Midwest that are, that come from Canada or the East Coast.
Yeah, yeah, they came, but those, those, those came rafting down.
Out on, you know, from valleys and things like that, and it came rafting down onto those areas.
And then, so then that ice, big chunks of ice that were carrying these rocks, that melted, and then you were left behind with these big rocks just kind of hanging out everywhere.
I'm not sure, because we're talking about in the middle of Michigan, there was probably a really big sheet of ice there.
And the only analog we really have for that now is either Greenland or Antarctica.
And when you look at pictures of like Greenland and Antarctica, you don't see a whole bunch of rocks laying around, they're on the bottom.
But it's almost, I mean, you have like a mile of just white ice all the way up to the top.
And I think that this, because I do agree with Antonio's like impact hypothesis.
I do think that there was an impact into the ice and that it did eject the ice away from that location.
They went up and then came crashing back down.
I don't think they were quite as solid as he hypothesizes.
I think that this, because glacial ice forms differently anyways.
It doesn't form like you take like ice and put it into an ice, you know, into the freezer and it freezes solid.
Glacier ice forms when you have like annual snows that just pile up and then they get squished down.
They get piled up and they get squished down.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
And so you create what's called a fern, F I R N.
And that's when all that snow just builds up, gets squished down.
And so it's globular.
It's kind of like plasticky.
And then it eventually turns into glacial ice.
So it already has like forgiveness.
It like bends and it molds and it has like, I use the term plastic because that's the term that.
That's a geologic term, but it molds and moves around.
And so, if there was an impact into that ice, it would behave differently.
It's already under pressure, it's already globular.
And so, I think that would be highly fractured and it would send out, and you'd have these globs of frozen debris coming crashing back down.
And it would be highly fractured.
So, I think when they came crashing back down, that's kind of what formed that ellipse.
That's why they're so shallow.
Like I said, when you look at images of these there, they're super shallow in the center of them.
Uh, and it's because I think that that stuff came down, just kind of crashed out and and that's that's what gave you that, that um ellipse with the raised rims um again, he thinks that they were solid and so that they were actually entering the ground and it was the cone that creates that.
And then there was viscous relaxation where the the earthquakes caused it to shake and and uh, and settle back out.
Um oh okay yeah, so the earth, so the earth shaking made these things perfectly round.
No no no, the the impact.
So so again, we have a paper right now that we're trying to get pushed through, but It's the cone of, what's he called it?
The conic section.
So we have different conic sections when something enters an unconsolidated material, which is mostly sand and clay and stuff like that.
And so whenever the object enters the flat plane, it creates a cone.
If they were coming straight down, the conic section would be a perfect circle.
If they're coming in at an angle, which these would have been, the conic section would be an ellipse.
If you keep going, you'd end up with like a hyperbole.
And you end up with these, there's like four different conic sections.
These are all elliptical.
We think that they're cones of depression coming in at an angle.
Ah, I see.
Right, right, right.
Okay.
And again, I do agree with that.
The physics backs that up.
Right.
Yeah.
So here are the cones of depression.
Yeah, and again, you can see the where the ellipses are they're at an angle.
They're entering the plane.
I see.
Look at that.
Conic Sections and Impact Angles00:05:15
That is fascinating.
So again, you know, if you imagine something entering into that flat plane, the cone itself is the object entering in and then it seals itself into that into that terrain.
Yeah, it's amazing we can't figure out how to get like some sort of big drill.
Out in the middle of those things and just drill down.
For like a little while.
We had okay, so there's a couple things.
One, we had heavy equipment, like we had a, a bull uh, a front end, what they call that, the front end loader, an excavator or whatever.
But yeah um and, and we dug as far as that thing went down and it started filling up with water.
Uh, we got as much, you know, because you hit the water table too, and so the water just started filling this whole thing up.
Right, we got as much sediment as we possibly could.
Um, you know we, we kind of know where the apex would be like, we kind of know where you should probably dig right um, but you know we, how far do you dig?
We don't know.
Like I said, I don't think that these things made it all the way down to the, To the focus point of that ellipse.
I don't think they went all the way down.
I think that's something, I think that whatever happened caused it to dissipate the energy, and then you still end up with the cone of depression, but the energy is dissipated because of the material.
So, when do you think these things were from again?
Okay, so the other hypothesis that I'm looking at is Michael Davis, the guy who did all this LiDAR.
He thinks that these happened during the mid Pleistocene transition.
Pleistocene.
Yeah, the mid Pleistocene trans now, this is a lot longer ago, 786,000 years ago.
The mid Pleistocene transition is a real thing.
We basically have a chain of events that completely changed the Earth.
Literally before the mid Pleistocene transition, we were going in and out of ice ages like every 41,000 years.
And something happened right around that time that caused a change in obliquity of the Earth that caused the ice ages to stretch out to 100,000 years.
And we have this recorded in ice core data.
So we started going from, we were going from 41,000 years, going in and out of ice ages, to now going 100,000 years in and out of ice ages.
And I'll show you a graph here in a little bit where you can see that.
So, I mean, a change in obliquity is kind of a big deal.
That's one of the Milankovitch cycles, right?
You've got precession, obliquity, and eccentricity.
So it knocked, this thing knocked the earth off its tilt?
Listen, I'm not, you said it, not me.
I think that's the idea.
I think it could be the idea.
Yeah, I think it could be, yes.
Jesus.
I mean, something happened.
Something happened to cause the Earth's obliquity to change, to stretch out our ice age cycles.
We also find all kinds of other evidence.
We find a big one for me, and you kind of mentioned this a minute ago whenever an impact hits the ground, it's going to send up melted rock or melted parts of itself.
And so it melts, but it sends these, they're called tektites.
It's kind of like meteorites, but they formed from the ground, from the Earth.
And we find AA tektites that date back.
To 786,000 years that date back to the mid Pleistocene transition.
And it's a mystery.
They don't know where they came from.
Where do they find them?
They find them all over Asia.
They find them all in Australia.
That are 800,000 years old.
800,000 year old tektites.
Yeah.
And they're found.
I was just, you know, you can go look up tektites and they find them all over the place.
And again, they don't know exactly where they came from.
Now, one of the guys, there's different types of tektites.
That's a good example of one right there.
That was probably an A tectite found probably in the Philippines or something like that.
Wow.
But there's a huge strewn field where you find these things.
And most of it's actually in the ocean.
Like most of the strewn fields are actually under the water.
And so there's a ton of tektites that are still there.
They do, yeah, I think I just saw this just the other day where they found, they were just finding like dozens of them.
800,000 years old, just chilling right there on top of the dirt.
Yep.
Yep.
And they're really kind of neat because they actually show the, they were melted, they were flying through the air.
When they solidified.
How do they actually know it was 800,000 years old?
It's from where they find them in the strata.
Like where, like.
That was just sitting on top of the dirt.
Well, that dirt's been eroded away.
They find them in other places that are in in that location another thing that they've done is they actually there's a guy who has tested those with Stronium and rhodium Dating yeah,
and and they date back to well actually let me rephrase it because they date back to the rock layers being Jurassic of age But that's not when they're formed like the rock that formed the sandstones that formed them were Jurassic age rocks but they That's what formed the tektites What's interesting is if we look back at the Michigan Basin, the center of the Michigan Basin, right here, this pink rock right there, that's all Jurassic Age rock.
And so, if this was an impact and we had sandstone, which most of that is Michigan sandstone, if that was ejected from that location, it would have gone into orbit, solidified, and then came back down on the other side of the planet.
Insights from Rocket Scientists00:05:33
One of the guys that's working on this is Tim Harris.
Here's Tim right here.
Tim is an engineer.
He used to work for Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
And some of his mentors were like literally rocket scientists himself, but a lot of his mentors were like the rocket scientists during the Cold War.
And they use the same impact physics for ballistic missiles to track where we find these tektites all the way back to their source.
And he's been putting out papers left and right, but they just don't get taken seriously.
What's his name?
Thomas Harris?
Yeah, Thomas Harris.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, he actually came to visit a couple years ago now.
His son was going to be a first mate on a ship, like a yacht that was sailing from Savannah up to New York.
They're from New York.
And so he drove, it was right during COVID, and he drove his son down and called George.
He's like, Is there anybody in this area that's Carolina Bay related?
Because I'm down here, I'm going to be camping and stuff.
He's like, So he gave him my number.
And I'm like, Dude, Carolina Bay is, come on, he can come stay at my house.
Yeah.
And so he came over and we kicked back with a few beers that night.
And then we were talking about all kinds of stuff.
There was a really cool connection with the AA Tektites because the Mr. Tektite, like the guy who is known, he used to work for NASA.
His name's Hal Pavanmayer.
And he is like the Tektite king.
Like he knows all about these Tektites.
Hal Pavanmayer?
Yeah, Hal Pavanmayer.
He's passed away now.
In fact, my wife met him at a jet.
Hold on a second.
That sounds familiar.
Is this the guy Chris Bledsoe was talking about?
Yes, same guy.
Same guy.
I just contacted Matt Bell.
I was like, dude, you got to talk to somebody who knows Hal because there's connections with Hal Poppenmeier that need to be explored.
Yeah.
And he's from here.
Did you ever meet the guy?
Okay.
So my wife met Hal at a gem and mineral show, completely unrelated.
She was there.
She was bored.
She saw this guy.
He called her over and she started because he had a big map of Georgia.
He's, again, a big tech tight guy and one of the tech tight streams.
fields is right across Georgia.
They call them Georgiaites.
Yeah, he wrote a book about tektites, didn't he?
Yeah, I have a signed copy of it.
Yeah.
So that strewn field in Georgia is from the Chesapeake Bay impact that happened 30 million years ago.
So anyways, but he had this picture of Georgia.
My wife came up, started talking to him because we have property right on the fall line, which was on the map.
And his eyes got huge when he found out we had property there because where he was looking at, if they can find Georgiaites there, it would completely expand his research into a whole other county.
And so he was super interested in that.
They exchanged.
She gave him my number.
He called me.
We had like three or four conversations and trying to find a time where we can meet up to go.
Tech tight hunting, uh, and it just he ended up passing away and it never happened.
Like, I'd call him, Hey man, I'm going up to the property, you want to come?
and he's like, I can't, I'm going up probably to see Chris Bletso or somebody, and uh, and and it never worked out.
We never got a chance to meet, so wow, that's bizarre.
And if you search this guy on the internet, you can't find you, there's you can't find much.
I know that's yeah, like I said, I emailed Matt and I was like, You gotta, you guys gotta find something on this guy because he's connected to everything.
I don't know what the deal is, I don't know, like, he is connected with.
All of these different things alien abductions.
Chris told me something that he said, that when he asked him about the moon, he said that there's ancient mushroom structures on the moon.
Really, that's what his what.
That's what his daughter told me.
Yeah, that's what he told his daughter.
Oh, Chris Blitzel's daughter yeah, there's a.
Really there's a really neat video of um, his daughter Blitzel's daughter, um playing the piano.
Yeah, she's a great piano player.
Yeah yeah, and then she teaches and it's, she's one of the reasons why she became so good at the piano.
He gave her like 20 bucks and then gave her one of the most difficult songs to play.
You know, it's like, here's 20 bucks, you need to learn the song.
Next time I see you.
Oh, really.
And she learned it.
And then he passed away.
She actually was like a memorial to him.
You can find it on TikTok.
It's a neat little video.
But yeah, again, when I heard that name, and actually, I think I'm referring to Matt Bell's episode with him that just came out this week.
He didn't mention Hal by name, but he talked about this guy that's an expert.
He may have said Hal.
We talked about him for like 30 minutes right here.
Okay.
Well, he just mentioned Tech Tites, and I was like, oh, he's got to be talking about Hal Poppin.
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, so again, that conversation that I was having with Tim Harris in my backyard, Hal came up and I was like, dude, I got a couple of tektites from Hal.
And I went up, got them, and showed him.
And he's like, yeah, man.
And then Tim showed me the plasma scarring and things like that from when these things were in the sky and how much electricity was part of the impact that actually created these things.
And you can actually see them.
That's what causes the pot marks in the tektites themselves.
And again, he was in contact with Hal.
And Hal was like, you know, you guys might be onto something with these things being from Michigan.
And so they stayed in communication too.
Again, there's a lot of really interesting connections that keep coming up with Hal.
I think he definitely needs to be, you know, checked out a little bit more.
I think there's some really neat stories.
So he thought these tektites could have been from Michigan.
That's what Tim told me.
Is that Tim?
Yeah, yeah.
Again, when I was interacting with Hal, I wasn't this far into tektites yet.
Million-Year-Old Barrier Islands00:15:36
Or I wasn't this far into Carolina Bay's yet.
I was researching them, but I wasn't this far into researching them.
Okay.
And so anyways.
The connection with the, with the tektites leading back to Michigan, and was like, oh this, you know, these guys might be onto something, uh and and um, you know, if these things did happen 786 000 years ago, we should be able to kind of, you know, come up with some better evidence for that.
And I think I did find some some better evidence that may suggest that they're older uh, and closer to that 786 000 year year.
Which is what?
Uh, the Paleo-alantic shorelines, what we were just looking at earlier.
We were looking at the um the, the uh, ancient barrier islands.
Okay, here of Pinellas County, right All up and down the East Coast, we find that shoreline.
There are almost zero Carolina bays below those shorelines.
Zero.
Below the shoreline.
Below them.
Yeah, I'll show you.
I'll show you some evidence of that.
Yeah, if you go back when those things hit, the sea level would have been 400 feet lower, right?
Well, it just depends on when they hit, right?
Yeah.
So, so it's well, if it was ice being yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, so if they happened at the younger drives, this is part of the big if it happened during the younger, yeah, if it happened at the younger drives, then sea levels would have been 400 feet lower or somewhere in it was they were rising during the time beginning of the younger drives.
There is an exact number, I can't remember what it is, but even if it was half that 100, you know, 200 feet lower.
Yeah.
If it happened at that time, sea levels did not come even close to our current shoreline.
We should find Carolina bays all the way up to the beach.
We should find Carolina bays across the coastal plain all the way to the beach.
And again, we don't.
And that to me was a big deal.
This is an image right here that shows the ice ages.
So this shows the ice age.
This is where we are currently.
This is where we are at the peak of our last ice age.
That was 20,000 years ago right here.
Right?
The last time sea levels were as high as they are today.
This is marine oxygen isotope stages and relative sea level.
So, that line that you're looking at right now is sea level?
This line down here is sea level.
This line up here is the isotopes that they're getting out of the ice cores.
Oxygen isotopes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, they're using the Greenland ice cores and the Antarctic ice cores.
Okay.
And they're cross referencing the two to come up with this chart.
Okay.
I got it.
And so, and we have stages.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
MIS stages, marine isotope stages.
We're in one right now, like marine oxygen isotope stage number one right now.
If you go back, again, this was the peak of the last glacial cycle when we had like two miles of ice on top of Canada and the oceans were 400 feet lower and about 100 miles farther away.
This is the peak of the last one that you have your cursor on?
This one right here, yeah.
That's the peak of the last ice age.
Which was how long ago?
20, 25,000 years ago.
Okay, and all the way on the right, where is that?
How far ago is that?
All the way over here.
Yeah.
This is 800,000 years.
Got it.
So this is within that 786,000 years.
That's why this is actually really good data.
So here we have the peak of the ice age.
This right here was the last interglacial, like the last times temperatures were like they are today.
And they were warmer than they are today.
More ice melted during that time than had melted today.
And sea levels were higher than they were today.
And that was 125,000 years ago.
The MIS stage was 5E.
Wow, so we're like, so at the very, very far left is where we are right now.
Yes.
Right here.
The last time sea levels were anywhere close to where they are today.
So they're, they are the hot, pretty much, pretty damn close to the highest they've been in the last 800,000 years.
Yeah.
There's one other place right here at 11C that was actually higher.
You can actually see right here.
For whatever reason, it might have been.
That's fucking terrifying, dude, because those peaks don't last very long.
Hey, you're telling me?
You just got a climate change.
YouTube warning.
Yeah.
They don't last very long.
And we've been in one for, you know, 10,000 years.
They last, it looks like they last like what, like 40 years maybe?
No, no, no.
I mean, these are, I mean, these are, these are thousands of years.
Oh, those are thousands.
That's a couple of like 40,000, 50,000 years.
Yeah.
But, but regardless, you're right.
They don't last that long.
In the long, in the big picture, it's nothing.
No, no.
And in fact, we're, I think we're nearing the end of this one.
And if you look at the historically, they go up.
They go down, they go up, they go down.
We have been up for 10,000 years, completely off topic right now, but they're up for 10,000 years already.
It's got to go back down.
And then there's only one thing worse than global warming global cooling.
You got it.
You got it.
You can't feed 8 billion people with reduced growing seasons and things like that.
So that's actually a huge problem.
And work, everyone's freaking out.
Agriculture goes to shit.
Yeah, yeah.
Everybody's freaking out about the beach homes when we got to be worrying about feeding 8 billion people.
Right.
So, anyways, off topic.
That's terrifying.
It is.
It is.
So, yeah, I think that we actually see evidence of these last few interglacials in the landscape.
We do see evidence of it.
They're actually well dated.
You can actually see in this image right here, they have names.
You've got the Pamlico, you've got the Talbot, you've got the, I can't remember how to say that one.
Wicca Mico?
Yeah, the Wicca Mico.
Wicca Mico.
Yeah, the Talbot and the Pamlico are the ones that are important to me because they're the ones that happen here and here.
And again, I think that the impact happened somewhere back here.
I'm leaning towards this as being a possible date from what Michael Davis and Tim Harrison said.
Now, so does conventional science agree?
That all of the like what do they say the explanations are for all of these drops in climate?
Okay, all right.
Oh for the drops in climate like for for the I mean it's crazy variations these jumps and these fall like like those vertical spikes Yeah, so overall it's the Milankovitch cycles overall it's the Earth's place in space and and you know where the Sun the Earth are right so the Milankovitch cycles you've got those three of them you've got precession that's the I'm sorry eccentricity is the the shape that the Earth takes as it goes around the Sun right yeah, It's not a perfect circle.
It does go more, more circular, but it's more of an oval.
Yes, it's more elliptical actually, right and uh.
So sometimes we're closer, sometimes we're farther away.
That affects the climate um, the obliquity is the tilt of the axis, right and and so that's what gives us our seasons, that's what gives us uh, you know, the winter, that's what gives us summer, is the, is the shape or the the tilt of the axis as we move around the sun um, and so that tilt changes.
It goes from like 24 and a half degrees to like 22.1 degrees.
Right now we're at 23 and a half degrees, but it's moving.
You know it does move And the cycles are really long.
Like, I think the eccentricity cycles are 100,000 year cycles.
The obliquity is 41,000 year cycles, I believe.
And then you have the precession, which comes up a lot with like Randall Carlson's talks and things like that.
But that's the great year wobble.
That's the wobble of the earth as its axis is.
Which is like 26,000 years or something like that.
Yeah, and that one's 26,000 years.
Yeah.
So those three things together, sometimes you're a little bit.
Closer, or sometimes you're a little bit farther away while the angle's farther.
And how much of a variation in temperature is that from the very peak of the spike to the very bottom of it?
I'm not sure.
It's usually, I usually hear it's like 20 degrees difference.
20 degrees difference.
But that's a big deal, you know?
You drop 20 degrees, and I think that's usually Celsius, so that could be like a really big deal.
Yeah.
But so, anyways, when this happens, we end up with these, when the sea levels are higher, we end up with shorelines, you know, the beach, the beach that was formed during that interglacial.
And we end up with a series of beaches as we go up from.
The current beach down here, up to like the beach that was formed 20 million years ago or something like that.
So, you end up with all of these different scarps and these different ancient barrier islands.
And what really got me was looking at images like this.
And it was actually, I came about this with a discussion I was having with Michael Davius because he was trying to tell this back when I used to think that this was a Younger Dryas event.
He was explaining that these Carolina bays are really well ingrained into the environment itself.
And that they maintain that shape really easily for a really long period of time.
And then he used a term that it's because the coastal plain is pool table flat all the way to the beach.
And I was like, Michael, it's not pool table flat.
Where I live in coastal Georgia, we have ancient barrier islands.
Like you literally go up 20 meters and then you're up on the sandhill and there's a whole nother ecology there.
There's a whole different type of ecosystem.
And I pulled up his images.
I went to Google Earth and pulled up his image.
And when I clicked over to the LiDAR to show him, what I really noticed is where you don't find the Carolina Bays, where they're missing, right?
You find the Carolina Bays on the tops of those ancient barrier islands, but you don't find them below them.
So where are they here?
All these red dots.
This is panned way out.
Okay.
But again, this was the reason why I'm using this right here is because this is actually from a field trip guide for geology class for Valdez State University.
Okay.
And so they would actually take a group of students to the beach on Sapelo Island.
I usually spend about a week on Sapelo every summer helping grad students.
So I'm very familiar with Sapelo Island.
There's actually a really cool shell ring, like right here, a shell minimum from the Native Americans that lived there.
Oh, really?
Like older than the Egyptian pyramids.
It's really cool.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah.
Really old.
And it's right there.
So, anyways, he would take a crew here.
They would check out the erosion and how the beach forms.
You would look at the dunes and the different types of ecosystems as you go across the barrier island.
And then they would get back on the ferry.
The ferry would take you back over here to Meridian.
And they would drive and they would stop at these different places.
And this was one of their stops, it was like right here.
Yeah, it was stop one right there.
And that was the ancient barrier island.
So, when I click on the button, that's the barrier island that was formed 125,000 years ago.
You go back up, this is the barrier island that was formed.
Formed 400,000 years ago.
And so you end up having this like time frame of when sea levels were higher and where those beaches formed.
And again, you find these red dots.
Those are Michael Davis tagged those.
Again, if you look a little bit closer, here's this is actually up closer to Myrtle Beach.
Okay.
And this is that first picture I showed you of the black and white one.
This is that area today.
And you can see these well defined Carolina bays.
Uh, that are up here in this area.
This is actually a preserve now, so there's no construction, there's no golf courses being built here and like that.
It's all wildlife habitat.
Uh, whereas all of this down here has been like really worked over, yeah, with urbanization.
But, but what I like about this area is that where the beach is right now, the last beach was right above it, like the last time.
And when you click on the lidar, you can see like all of these bays right here.
This is the highest point on this map.
You actually you're kind of going up and then back down right here.
And then you go back up, and then you go way up, and then you go back down, and then back down.
So you're going up and then back.
I can't remember what river this is back here.
There's a big river back there.
So this whole area right here was a barrier island 400,000 years ago.
This is where we find the most well defined Carolina bays in this picture as well, right?
So all of these are really well defined.
So a million years ago, this whole area was underwater.
A million years ago is when we had the Penaholloway scarp form.
So, and that's like 70 meters or 70 feet above the current shoreline.
What is that?
The Penaholloway?
The Penaholloway is the beach from a million years ago.
So, it was the barrier islands that are formed one million years ago are called the Penaholloway.
And it was super hot then, so there was not much ice.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, definitely sea levels were higher, so it was a lot warmer.
And like I said, sea levels were way up during that time.
Okay.
But that also means that all of this area was underwater.
Right.
And so, everything that you see in the landscape has to be younger than a million years.
Which is good.
That gives us a baseline, you know, to survive.
So, none of the stuff would survive under the ocean for 100,000 years?
The Carolina Bay?
Yeah.
No, I don't think so.
No?
No, no, no.
As a matter of fact, I don't think.
They survived the interglacials.
And that's kind of the point.
It's like whenever the sea levels rose and formed those shorelines, that erased the Carolina base.
Because you got to remember, like right now, this is the beach.
You surf, right?
Yep.
So, you know, the wave action is pretty constant, right?
You have tides that come in and out every single day.
You've got waves that are constantly lapping up on the beach.
And you've got things like longshore drift that's constantly moving the sand down the beach.
Right.
So, whenever the shorelines, whenever the beaches, or whenever the oceans rise up to this point, there's all kinds of erosion here.
Right.
And it's just flat.
It's just flat sand, right?
Got it.
So the last one was here.
And I can actually, here's where I marked it.
This right here was a barrier island 125,000 years ago.
All of this was exposed.
But this was a back bay.
This was where you would find like the intercoastal today.
Okay.
Right.
And so this is wiped clean from 125,000 years ago.
But I also think from 400,000 years ago when this was a barrier island and this was the upper part of that barrier island.
Mm hmm.
So that has been above sea level for at least 400,000 years.
That has this has been above sea level for a million years.
A million years.
Yeah.
The shoreline well, the regression that took place a million years ago left that all everything dry, right?
And then the last time it happened was 400,000 years ago.
This was still a barrier island during that time.
And then 125,000 years ago, all of this was exposed, including this right here.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, for instance, like this area right here on the very top.
Yep.
That's in blue.
I think that this was these.
were underwater 400,000 years ago, but this barrier island protected them.
And this was a marsh.
I think this is like a salt marsh.
Okay.
And so a really easy way to check for this, and we just need somebody to go out and do it, is to do some core samples in here.
And if there's marsh mud in the middle of all these, then that shows that they were there when that marsh was there 400,000 years ago.
Right.
And that's huge because, again, that's older than all the dates that have been coming up so far.
Like even the convent, we didn't even get into the conventional creation of these Carolina bays, but theirs is, you know, they would have happened between the last ice age, like 1,200 years ago to about 100,000 years ago.
They say that during that time, during the last ice age cycle, was when all these Carolina bays were formed.
I'm saying that this shows that they're older than that.
Like they're older than even what the radiocarbon dates are coming back with or what the optically stimulated luminescence dates are coming back with.
This shows that they're older than that.
And so they would have to be older than that.
And they're being worn away by those rising seas during that time.
Marsh Mud Dates Back 400k Years00:14:41
How far south do they go?
What's the southernmost Carolina Bay?
I find them close to where I live.
They get really sparse as you get farther down into Georgia, but you do find some.
There's some around like Sylvester, Georgia.
The first one I ever heard of was in Valdosta, Georgia.
And that's like, what, maybe two hours north of here?
Okay.
Three hours north of here?
No, it's definitely more than three hours.
Saldosta.
Right.
It's right on the Georgia border.
If you go right up 75, you go right through Valdosta.
Yeah.
I don't know how fucking fast you drive.
That's like five hours from me.
Is it?
So anyways, right when you cross the border.
Now, it does get confusing, and it was part of that pseudo-Carolina Bay thing because that part of Florida, you go through all of those sinkholes.
Like, it's all karst topography, and so you have a bunch of sinkholes.
And so a lot of the geologists would mix the Carolina Bays in with being karst.
Like, there's actually, like, karst sinkholes under the ground, and that's what formed them.
But this whole area shows that that's not right.
But where I first heard about Carolina bays was in Valdosta because they have a Carolina bay there called Grand Bay.
And you can actually, so really it's a wildlife management area.
So, and they have a really pretty boardwalk.
And, you know, the reason why they call them Carolina bays has nothing to do with water, has nothing to do with like a bay on a coast or something like that.
Right.
It's they call them Carolina bays because of the bay trees that grow within them.
Is there like Old Bay that you would use in like crab oil and stuff like that?
Yeah, yeah.
That's where those plants grow, is in these Carolina bays.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Why do they grow in there?
I mean, it's just a low swampy area.
So they grow.
Yeah, and it's not all of them, obviously.
You know, I showed you millions or thousands of them that don't have bays in them.
But the ones that do hold water usually do have.
They're low oxygen.
There's low, you know, not a lot of flow to it.
And so it's a really good place for them to grow.
You also find some really cool carnivorous plants in a lot of these.
If you go like in North Carolina and Virginia, you're going to find like the Venus fly traps.
That's cool.
Really?
Yeah.
If you go to like the ones in South Georgia, you can find a lot of pitcher plants, which are just swampy plants anyways.
But they really like the Carolina Bay habitats.
Uh huh.
Yeah, the ecology in the Carolina Bay is carnivorous plants.
What an interesting.
Yeah, like the soil is so poor that they have to like trap bugs to get the nourishment that they need.
So that's so wild, man.
I would love to see a Venus flytrap.
I don't think I've ever seen one in real life.
Yeah, you could buy them.
I think we bought one at Lowe's.
What?
Yeah, they had them for sale.
Yeah.
We need to get a Venus flytrap for the studio studio.
Utilitarian plant at Lowe's.
Oh my God, that would be so cool.
Yeah.
He'd eat all the flies in here.
So let's go and talk about the current academic hypothesis for these Carolina bays.
Again, because I do think that they have a cosmic origin.
I think that there was an event looking at the evidence.
And what's interesting is you've got these two guys.
You've got Michael Davis and Tim Harris, and you've got Antonio Zamora.
And they're two completely different hypotheses.
And Michael Davis thinks that it wasn't chunks of ice, but that it was like a cavitated.
Eject a regolith blanket or something where a who, yeah, exactly.
So, so an asteroid hit the ice sheet and just a blanket of sand and water and ice just kind of washed over and away from the impact site.
And then it was more like, um, like you know, like paint bubbles, like when you're painting and it pops and you end up with like an elliptical shape, yeah.
He thinks that that's what formed a Carolina base.
I, to me, I don't think you would get like that, um, that precise with the, you know, the elliptical shape of them.
Uh, if that were the case.
So I think it's a combination of two of those.
I think that it's.
You know, Antonio Zamora is more on board, or i'm more on board, with his hypothesis of of the actual ice chunks crashing down.
Yeah, at least, at least the outer edge, I obviously.
I think the middle part of where this would have happened completely vaporized, but it would have been the edges that came, you know, coming out, it came crashing away and then came, came down onto the ground that formed that, but what again?
I think there's a lot of evidence that suggests that the time frame has to be a lot older uh and, and Tim Harrison and Michael Davis have a pretty good idea of that mid Pleistocene, because something big happened during that time and it hasn't been solved.
And so we have two mysteries now because keep, you know, there's no make, make, make no mistake about it.
You know, the Carolina Bay's are a mystery.
Like they, we really don't know.
Even, even the academic scientists will tell you, you know, well, we're really not sure.
This is our best hypothesis, right?
And so when you start looking at all of the different hypotheses, you know, you got to start, you know, pulling and taking what you can from those to kind of get a better picture.
Right now, they think that the Carolina bays were formed by wind and water.
I mean, basically, it's an Aeolian Lacustrian hypothesis.
And sometimes they add other things too, like a solution, the dissolved solution underneath there and water tables that rise and fall and things like that.
But really, right now, the dominant academic hypothesis, pretty much being used by guys like Christopher Moore, Dr. Moore, is that it was wind and water, that the glaciers themselves were just blowing air off the glacier across the North American coastal plain.
And all of the Carolina bays would have been ponds and it would have been swirling.
These ponds into these perfect ellipses, and then they just stopped.
That's what they think.
And it actually all goes back to a guy named Ray Kowalski.
He was a geology PhD candidate somewhere in the Carolinas.
And actually, it probably says it right there.
No, it doesn't say it.
Anyways, in 1977, he put together a PhD dissertation where he got a sand table.
Kind of like what we have right here, but it would be full of sand.
He made a bowl shaped depression in the middle of it, filled that bowl shaped depression with water, and then took a fan and blew it across the water in one direction for 15 minutes.
Went to the other side of the table and blew it across the opposite direction for 15 minutes.
He did that for four hours.
Wow.
Well, I mean, to be honest, I don't know why.
Like, I don't know what he was trying to achieve because, you know, that's there.
Wind doesn't work like that.
You know, the only reason I could think that he would, like, take the Sand and go back and forth like that is to show like seasonal variation of winds.
Maybe.
Maybe.
I really don't know.
Still interesting.
Well, it is interesting, but this is what he got.
Like this image right here is what he got at the end of this experiment.
And he made a really cool oriented lake.
And I showed you images of oriented lakes earlier.
And what he was trying to do in his dissertation was to prove that the Carolina Bays were oriented lakes.
And to prove it, he took this bowl shape of water.
And created this football shape.
Now, from the very beginning, I mean, he started with a bowl shape depression full of water.
You know, that's what a crater is.
I mean, if you take a perfectly round bowl shape, I mean, you look at the moon, it's full of craters, it's full of bowl shaped depressions.
Then he filled it with water and then blew air across it back and forth, you know, for four hours.
Right.
There's so many variables, like environmental variables, that are left out of this explanation that it just baffles me that this is still.
Like this right here is like the, the go-to for Carolina Bay hypotheses.
For the academic hypothesis um, you know, 1977 dissertation that was never peer reviewed, it was never published anywhere.
You know, went into some guy's office and uh, they gave him his phd.
He went on to become a oil and gas uh geologist, I think, I think in Texas, never went back to Carolina Bays, never wrote another paper.
That was it.
And, and this is what they used.
In fact, Christopher Moore has a paper, uh, it was actually a presentation that he put together for a conference Titled Kazaworski was right.
And he had this whole thing about how wind and water and things like that were, they call it catabatic winds, that the winds were blowing off the glaciers.
The air above a glacier is really cold and it's dense.
And so it blows off the glacier in a direction away from the glacier.
And he's saying it's those winds that went over those ponds to form those perfect ellipses.
Right.
And he's done a lot of work on a specific bay called Herndon Bay.
And he went through and did a bunch of, you know, OSL dating and things like that on Herndon Bay.
Yeah.
They actually think that Herndon Bay has migrated, that it actually started here and had migrated to this point right here.
It's all in that paper.
The problem is, again, when you start looking at it, so here's Herndon Bay right here.
This is using Google Earth.
You can see I pinned Herndon Bay in the middle.
This is the one that they've done all those studies on, right?
Okay.
And again, Aeolian Lacustrian, that this had to have been a pond and had to have been a pond for so long that wind and water had blown it into a perfect ellipse.
That would have had to take thousands of years and then it stopped and then it was a perfect ellipse.
But when you look at the lidar, if that's true, then it has to be true for all of them.
It can't, you can't just pick one, you know, it has to be every single one of those would have had to have been lakes.
Again, this is all farmland today, this is all high and dry.
These are rivers, these are all rivers of the past.
But when you click on the lidar, you see how many or how extensive these Carolina bays are, and they all have this.
You like I said, using that least squares method, we can go on and we can.
Pick points all around this rim, yeah.
It's interesting, isn't it, man?
It's super compelling, you know.
Especially, you know, I know you said you don't think it's from the younger Dryas, but um, it's interesting to me how um, you know, conventional science and academia has not sort of done more research into the younger Dryas hypothesis and yeah, and tried to either validate it or invalidate it, yeah.
I that's and that's the whole point, like, just that's the whole reason why I got into this, yeah.
Back in 2015, I got a master's degree in geoscience.
I started a, like I wanted to teach a college level geology class.
The timing was ironic because that's also the same time that Randall Carlson first went on with like Joe Rogan.
And, you know, I was like, hold on.
You know, and he started talking about, you know, a lot of things that made a lot of sense about the Younger Dryas.
And I was like, so I started focusing on the, and that's kind of why I went back to the Carolina Bays at that time.
And then, you know, here we are today talking about them.
But yeah, I definitely think that this was a catastrophic event, that these were all created at the same time.
And now, like I said, I do have the credentials.
I have the background now.
I've taken, for some of these guys, I've taken more college level geology classes than any of them.
Like I said, I have two minors from Falasa State University.
That's where I went to school.
That's where I first saw that first Grand Bay.
And even then, back then, I asked them, I was like, how did it form this ellipse?
Because you really, when you first go to Grand Bay, you go to the top of this tower.
It's like 100 foot high, and you can just see the whole swamp all the way around you.
It's really kind of neat.
And it looks like it's circular.
And I remember asking the professor, I was like, you know, how did this form so, you know, such a neat circle?
And he's like, well, it's actually an ellipse.
And he told me all about the wind and the water hypothesis and things like that.
I was like, really?
And he said, but there is also this other hypothesis.
This was back in the year.
This was 2000.
Right.
You know?
Right.
And it's really interesting because I got interested in it.
I went to the internet, which back then it wasn't Google.
I can't remember what it was.
But I Googled or I typed in Carolina Bayes.
And it actually brought up George Howard's website that he talked about.
To you about on his show.
And so I read his paper on Carolina Bay's.
And then I kind of, like I said, I kind of didn't really think about it.
I just always thought they were kind of neat.
And then back in 2015, I got back into it hardcore.
And it was because of papers like this 1977.
I was born in 77.
So 47 years ago, that paper was written.
And that is the backbone.
That is the bottom assumption on a whole stack of assumptions that's been built on top of it.
And I think it's way incorrect.
I think that there is.
There's way too many environmental variables.
Can you do a peer review on it?
It was never published.
So, yeah, it wasn't a published paper.
So, you can't do a peer review on a published paper that's never been published.
Has anyone, you or, I mean, George has published papers on this, right?
I don't know about Carolina Bays.
He's published a lot of papers on the Younger Dryas.
Oh, okay.
And then that's, again, to be quite honest, like I said, I was totally on board with these Carolina Bays being part of the Younger Dryas story.
I was on board with Zamora's ideas.
I was like, man, I think this is right.
I think this is what's happening.
Carlson was connecting the Carolina Bays to the Younger Dryas.
That's why I got him involved with it.
George was.
Again, I'm kind of the odd man out now, you know, because I'm like, I don't think that they are guys, you know, and I'm showing you why.
Right.
You know, but I get a lot of pushback.
You know, it'd be convenient if it was in Grove Dryas, right?
It'd be a lot more fun.
Oh, you're not even kidding, man.
Like, it felt like somebody punched me right in the stomach.
When I was showing Michael Davis that and I saw where they weren't, like, there were none of them below that shoreline, I was like, ooh.
Like, actually, I had to go on earlier today because my last video during that time, because I do have a YouTube channel.
It's called The Dabbler's Den.
And the last video I put out was in October.
And that's when I found those Paleo Atlantic shorelines.
And I was so sick to myself.
Yeah.
That I didn't post another video until like February.
That's good, man.
Good for you.
Yeah.
I had to take most people to just, you know, grift, would just continue with the grift and just try to like keep letting stuff.
I caught myself doing that.
I actually caught myself.
I made a video about Michael Davius.
It's actually called the Delmarva Conundrum because you actually have a picture of it.
You have what I'm talking about, these shorelines in the Delmarva Peninsula of, you know, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia.
So here.
So, this is part of the Del Marva Peninsula.
And again, it's all farmland now.
You actually have this highway that runs up in the middle of it.
Rising Land and Lost Bays00:03:57
Oh, wow.
But it's beautiful farmland.
If you've ever driven up this way, it's really pretty.
And where is this?
This is the Chesapeake Bay right here.
Oh, okay.
Got it.
This is the Atlantic Ocean.
This is actually like the Outer Banks area.
Got it.
Okay.
So, and, you know, they got the Chesapeake Bay Tunnel.
I don't know if you've ever driven up that way, but they got a tunnel.
Yeah, I've been through it.
Yeah, yeah.
And so you come back up farther down.
But what's really neat about it, again, when you click on it, You can see where the Carolina bays are.
They're all right down this central peak.
Now, remember, you got to kind of get used to the colors, right?
Yeah.
So blue is sea level.
And then as you go up, the colors change.
And then this next blue is 10 meters up, right?
So this is low, this is high, then back down low, right?
It's confusing as hell.
Well, you get used to it, I promise.
Right.
So, yeah, because some people look at this and they think it looks like a valley, but it's actually the peak of Delmarva Peninsula.
That's why the highway's there.
So it's only at the highest parts.
And then it's at the red part too.
Okay, so here, this is where it gets interesting because, again, the way that I'm looking at this, the hypothesis would be that the sea levels rose, it washed the bays away, and then it went away, right?
And so basically, there's kind of like a rule that you don't find Carolina bays below 30 feet in elevation because that's how high the sea levels rose 125,000 years ago.
30 feet higher than today, right?
And then the sea levels dropped.
So you shouldn't find any Carolina bays below 30 feet.
But we do find some like right here, right?
Now, what I found was interesting, and again, I call this the exception to the rule, is that this whole area is subsiding.
This whole area, the whole Del Marva Peninsula is actually sinking.
It's slowly sinking.
It could be isostatic rebound, it could be just tectonics, whatever.
But it's slowly, I mean, really slow.
It's measurable.
You can, you know, they do studies on this.
A lot of it has to do with the extraction of fresh water and it's causing it to sink.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I mean, that's kind of speeding it up a little bit.
But so you do find Carolina Bay's that are a little bit lower.
My point of bringing this up, though, was I was arguing with Michael Davius about this, and I caught myself grifting because I was like, you know, oh, this could have been like a major flood or something at the Young Dryas that caused it.
And I have a video about it.
And I was like, I had to go back later.
I was like, that's not what happened, man.
This was the ocean came up.
The ocean came up, washed this stuff away, and the whole area has been sinking since then.
Right.
You also find areas like Charleston, they're actually rising.
Too.
So, this is another exception to the rule.
You find areas around Charleston, South Carolina, where you should find Carolina Bays if they were formed at any time in the past.
Right.
Especially at the Younger Dryas, because this whole area was high and dry during the Younger Dryas.
So, you should find Carolina Bays all over this area of South Carolina.
But they're not there?
No.
When you click on it, you'll see like there's some at the very highest points.
Yeah.
Like there's a couple really nice ones right there and a couple up here.
All of this area, you should be able to see them.
These are actually, all this area is higher than 30 feet.
So, we should even see them if.
If they were formed 400,000 or 700,000, 8,000 years ago.
But I think what happened was when you push the time frame back to the mid Pleistocene, that allows for a tremendous amount of time for geology to take place, rising and falling of seas and things like that, and tectonic uplift.
And that's what's happening here they have this area slowly but surely being lifted up.
They have earthquakes, or Charleston's well known for having earthquakes.
And so that whole area has been lifting up.
And this, we should see Carolina base here, but they're not because it's slowly rising.
So, interesting, man.
Yeah.
Yep.
Can you imagine if we had one day some sort of like chat GPT, they could travel through time and tell us what was going on?
Hey, that'd be awesome.
That's going to happen.
It's got to happen.
Yeah.
I got a question.
Yeah.
Simulating Wind Patterns00:04:12
So, can't you run it through a simulation, like propose a, like make a computer simulate, like, An ice impact instead of a rock, you could, yeah, you can.
There's a guy out there, um, he's he's not very known at all, like, he's just some guy on the i don't even know what he does, but he's really really good at computer animation and then using those.
I'm terrible at computer programming stuff, I'm awful at it.
Um, but he's been putting together um simulations of an impact and what would happen.
And then, um, I can't remember his name, it's DS, and I always have to go back and look at it.
Um, he's got a YouTube channel, and you could probably click on it.
And the problem is, he took a bunch off too.
Yeah.
He had a bunch of really cool stuff, and then people started like checking it out, and then he took it off.
Why the hell would you take it off?
I don't know.
Here's a good representation of it.
Like, you could also simulate the wind, like that dude's dissertation.
Yeah.
And, and, and, and.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
You can disprove or prove the wind as well.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, right now, what he was discussing was the impact would go through the ice, and the explosion itself would come from the bottom.
And so the ice catches.
Itself is exploding from the bottom of the impact, and the ice is spread that way.
And so it's kind of a neat way that he's kind of going about it.
Again, I have no idea what he's using and how he's doing it, but it is, they are neat simulations on how to do that.
And you're right, Steve.
There should be ways that you could go through and find what would have to happen.
What exact criteria would you need to make perfect ellipses with wind and water like that?
Again, what I tell some people that are arguing about it, I'm like, if you had unlimited resources and had a lab, do you think that you can make a perfect ellipse with wind and water?
Right.
And even if you did, could you make another one right next to it?
And can you make three or four of them side by side?
And then take your whole experiment, take it outside.
Are you going to be able to get the same thing?
And, you know, the variables that go into one of these, you know, one of these experiments, there's just so many things that could happen to change.
I mean, everything from like the soil type, you know, the vegetation, all of that would be a variable that would give you a different.
That's, you know, one of the main things we teach about in school is, you know, the scientific method and using the scientific method.
And you have to account for your variables.
And that wasn't done.
And they haven't really touched it since 1977.
Now, I can go to the beach today.
We can go right now, go back down to Indian Rocks and kick some water right out of the ocean onto the ground.
And within two seconds, we can make Carolina Bays.
That's interesting.
Yeah, man.
It looks just like that.
Yep.
I mean, we can go.
I mean, the substrate's the same.
It's sand.
You know, the coastal plain is mostly sandy.
The dude, I mean, the people who have researched this in the past, though, it's not likely that they were like multidisciplinary where they like studied the cosmos or like the history of the human streams.
Right.
Even Kowalski went on to become an oil scientist.
Yeah.
Like we have the luxury today to like watch all these amazing YouTube videos and listen to Randall Carlson for hours talk about all this, you know, wildly interesting shit.
Right.
That these guys had no access to, you know.
Yeah, back then.
When they came up with their ideas.
Yeah.
I think if they just had LIDAR, if they just had LIDAR, they would look at that.
Like, I don't know why when LIDAR became like accessible, Why every geologist on the planet didn't come back and look at these Carolina bays and be like, Hold up, guys, we got to go back and re examine these because there's no way wind and water created these.
There's no, it's impossible.
It's impossible, right?
And that's a hard word, you know.
When you say something's impossible, there is no chance that this could have happened 70 plus thousand times.
If you go to Wikipedia, by the way, they say there's half a million of them.
Oh, really?
There's not, there's not, you know.
It's just, it's, it needs to be re examined, it needs to be, you know, put into geology books.
Reexamining with Modern LIDAR00:02:53
It's not even, I've got to.
A slide here of a handful of geology and earth science books that I have access to in my own classroom, and not one mention of Carolina Bay's.
Really?
Not even one.
Not even one.
If you go to a university, my graduate level books, not one mention of Carolina Bay's.
And they are so dominant, man.
They are so everywhere, and nobody talks about them.
People live in the middle of them, have no clue that they're there.
Right.
And I think there's a really neat story there.
I think there's a really neat story that needs to be finished, and it's not.
Yeah, it's totally fascinating.
And it needs more attention on it, which you're doing a great job of getting the word out, you and Randall and George.
Yeah.
And hopefully we can get some people to start digging into this.
Yeah, that's the goal.
That has been the goal from the beginning.
I'm not the guy.
I'm not the one that I'm a huge introvert.
There's going to be people that I work with that are going to see this episode and they're going to be like, dude, I had no idea you were into that.
I'm serious.
I'm serious.
And I'm not the guy to be doing this.
I want to see.
Grad students, I want to see you know new geology professors.
I want to, those that's my that's been my target audience from the beginning of doing this.
You know, I wasn't about growing a YouTube channel, it wasn't about you know going off to do conferences with uh with Randall and those guys, which is awesome.
It's been a really neat, you know, side, you know, side event, but yeah, dude, that that event is what was wild.
That was really cool to see all those people, yeah, all those people get together.
Yeah, and uh, I'm super glad that I went first though, and I'm also glad that you guys missed it because I don't think I'd be here if you saw it.
You're like, oh yeah, we got the Carolina base, we got that figured out.
That's funny, uh, but yeah, um.
But yeah, I'm glad I went first because, like I said, I got super nervous.
You know, the first year I did it, that was Cosmic Summit 23 was in a big area, you know, like everybody was in the same area.
And we had some technical difficulties during mine.
The power went out on it.
And I was like, oh, my God.
Oh, shit.
Yeah, yeah.
So I was like really nervous.
Last year, it was much better.
And it went first.
So I didn't have time to get nervous.
It was good.
Yeah.
That's great, man.
Yeah, yeah.
Cool, man.
Well, thanks for coming.
And where can people find your YouTube channel and all that stuff?
So my YouTube channel is Dabbler's Den.
I have not taken anything off.
Like I said, I got the gut punch.
And I completely changed my mind.
I put disclaimers on that.
But yeah, YouTube is where you can find me.
I'm on Twitter, DaddlersDown on Twitter.
Facebook is mostly for family and friends and stuff like that.
I don't really use Instagram very often.
But Twitter and comment on some of the videos on YouTube.
And that's where you can find me.
Okay.
Beautiful.
Yeah, we'll link everything below.
And what do you got, Steve?
Patreon?
Uh, yeah, we got a few questions.
You want to read some here and then finish on Patreon?