Judyth Vary Baker claims she was a CIA and mafia recruit trained to kill Fidel Castro using biological weapons developed by Dr. Alton Ochsner and Dr. Mary Sherman. She alleges Lee Harvey Oswald was part of this operation, framed as the sole assassin while actually working to prevent Kennedy's death, supported by anomalies in his passport application and suppressed FBI files. Baker asserts that big pharma suppresses cancer cures like bacteriophages to maintain profits, linking her personal persecution to a broader conspiracy involving bioweapons, the military-industrial complex, and the deliberate alteration of historical records to hide the truth behind JFK's assassination. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Something Stirred in My Heart00:05:38
Judith, first of all, thanks for coming.
I'm looking forward to speaking with you.
Pleasure.
Please introduce yourself to the audience.
I'm a witness.
A witness they've tried to stop, but I can't be stopped because this is also about love.
It's also about justice.
It's also about the truth.
And I'm still here despite everything.
And everything is a lot.
All right.
Because I first started speaking out early in 1999.
And that completely destroyed my life.
Why did you?
1999 was the first time you came out.
Yes.
And why did you decide to come out in 1999?
In 1991, the film JFK came out.
And of course, I was deeply associated with Lee Oswald.
And I had to walk out my teenage.
I had at that time four kids still living in the house.
Well, one of them had come in with the film JFK.
He came out.
The film JFK came out from Oliver Stone.
Yes.
And when it played, started playing, I had to leave.
Of course, everybody noticed because I was the chaperone for all these kids, you know, all these teenagers.
It was Saturday night and we had popcorn and all that.
I went to the church and prayed.
And something stirred in my heart.
I had waited so long to speak out, but I had kids.
The day after my last child left home, which was December 26, 1998, I finally dared to take out the film JFK and look at it.
Of course, it made me ill.
If you understood all that I had gone through, you'd understand how I'd hidden it.
I thought, sure, I promised Lee I would speak out.
He said, I'd only ask you to please.
let my little girls know that I was a good guy.
And I let him down.
I was afraid.
Now something stirred in me because it said in Oliver Stone's movie there, it said, silence, you know, is evil too.
To be silent is to and I knew I couldn't be silent anymore.
I laid out all the evidence.
Not all.
I have boxes and boxes.
Why did I save evidence?
We were in I was in a project.
It was secretly funded by the CIA and the mafia and so on to kill Fidel Castro.
And I'll show you the special training and everything I had for that.
But the whole idea was we thought we were saving the world.
It's like today if somebody said, hey, we know how to kill Putin, and the U.S. won't be involved because it'll look like natural.
A biological weapon was being created.
And I got involved in that.
So let's go back.
So first of all.
So I just want to say I laid out the evidence.
Yes, yes.
On the bed.
I looked at it and I started shaking all over because I knew I had enough.
This was after you watched the JFK film.
I watched the film.
And so by January 1999, I was teaching at university.
I don't want to mention all that, but the fact is that you have a big break until way after New Year's, Christmas.
So I actually wrote most of the book during that period of time.
I have an eidetic memory.
You'll later find out 60 Minutes was amazed because they had a 14-month investigation of me and tapes that they had made early on when they replayed them and asked me the same questions, I was identical, everything.
I don't need calendar or anything, you know.
And so, I mean, it's all clear.
I see things in pictures.
So anyway, that's just oh, you have a photographic memory?
Yes, I do.
Wow.
Well, now I've had four.
I have some blanks now.
I've had four concussions.
I've been hit by cars three times.
I've had one time a hood of, I'm sorry, a trunk of a car was slammed down on my head.
There have been, you know, everything's documented.
So how did you meet Lee Harvey Oswald?
Always they ask that question when I got to tell you how I got to New Orleans and everything.
Because if I do that, you're not going to figure out why he was there or anything.
Let's start there and then let's rewind.
Because I think people that are watching this interview might be confused about who you are.
And I think it's important that we lay out.
Oh, all right.
Of course.
Of course.
All right.
I was actually being shepherded by people very high up that were associated with the CIA.
These were eminent doctors, they're very well known.
Like today, if you talk about.
Oh, Fauci, say it was Fauci shepherding me.
So they were very prestigious, the top of the top.
And I had not a minute to myself because I was being specially trained, fast tracked, because I'll tell you why later.
But the bottom line is, is I came early to New Orleans because I couldn't go home, which I'm going to explain later.
And I was free.
They weren't ready for me.
They were out of town.
Instead of being met with a steak dinner, I've always mentioned that before in other interviews, and champagne and say, you're here.
Rounding Up Mice for Research00:03:39
We love you.
We'll show you around.
And I go to the YMCA where I expected a room to myself and they said, who are you?
My first thoughts, I don't have any money.
I'm between semesters.
My grant money, I don't have it.
How old are you?
At the time, 19.
19.
Yeah.
And wow.
My first thought, oh no, I'm in this room with two strippers, a Playboy Bunny trainee, and this really profane, heavyset waitress who she was going to steal my stuff.
We had to pay her $0.25 a day so she wouldn't steal our stuff.
All right, so I'm in that room, but the stripper said, honey, you haven't seen the world, have you?
I said, no.
I said, how would you like to come around with us?
Now, I'm an asset.
I've been heavily trained.
And here I am now seeing the seediest parts of New Orleans.
I mean, when I stepped off the bus, the first thing I heard was a gunshot.
You have to understand what it was like.
You're heavily trained in what?
Well, I was heavily trained in how to handle specific viruses that were being developed for biological weapon purposes.
At the age of 19.
Absolutely.
When you first got shipped to New Orleans.
That's right.
And I have all the proof.
And what?
So how old were you when you first started studying these viruses and learning about this?
this 15.
You were what?
Yeah.
Here's a picture of see this.
My grandmother died October of 1956.
Okay.
She died of cancer.
My grandfather was dying of cancer.
And I was determined with all my heart to love my grandmother so much.
In fact, her picture is on my credit card, you know, nice.
Yeah.
And her memory and the magnificent woman she was.
And she was wiped out by cancer and suffered.
Sorry about taking that one.
Well, that's no, but other family members as well.
Yeah.
It just was endemic.
So that was my, I was determined.
And of course, what can a 15-year-old do?
I found cancerous fish, and they were special breed.
Mollies, black mollies, maybe you didn't know this about them, but they don't get inseminated by the male.
The male just excites them, and they only produce from their own eggs without any kind of insemination.
Now, they've got a male organ.
They have a male organ that penetrates, but there's nothing there.
Oh, there's no sperm?
That's right.
Interesting.
So it's sort of like cheetahs.
A lot of people don't realize the genetic variation of cheetahs is very tiny.
They make great lab animals, except they're very expensive.
Well, mollies aren't.
And so I determined I'm sure they had cancer, but I had to find out, and we took the mollies.
By that time, I had made friends with a lady running the American Cancer Society for the whole area where I was living there, Braden and Sarasota.
And we met Dr. Alton Oxner, who was he was there for the opening of the Watson Clinic over in Lakeland, I believe it was.
And so he saw my mollies.
And he said, you've got to go to mice.
So then I was rounding up mice.
And then finally, Rockefeller Foundation.
So where did, I'm sorry, those, where did you meet Alton Oshner?
At the Watson Clinic dedication.
Working with Robert Adler00:02:40
Which was where?
I believe it was in Lakeland, Florida.
In Lakeland?
Yeah.
And you were around 15?
At the time, yeah.
Okay.
So I had my own lab by then.
Wow.
I'll tell you why.
Yeah, child prodigy.
Well, that's why I have to start at the beginning.
Yes.
All right.
I really do.
Yeah.
Well, this is the beginning, right?
No.
Oh, there's more before this.
Oh, gosh.
Yes.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
That's why I'd like to get into it.
Okay.
Cool.
Let's do it.
All right.
But understand that they had a, again, here I was loose about meeting Lee Oswald.
That's not good because I was in the back.
They were police raiding.
I mean, I barely escaped a police raid at one of the clubs.
I'm in the back room there.
They're putting on pasties and stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I mustn't be rounded up with these kind of people, you know.
But I was free.
I mean, I didn't even know what it was like to be free because from age 15 on, you have to remember when Sputnik, do you have when Sputnik came up?
Look at when Sputnik came up.
What year was that?
Go ahead, look.
Was it 69?
No.
Oh, no.
Much earlier.
57.
Yes.
In 1956, there was a Hungarian revolution.
My grandmother died already by then.
In 57, Sputnik came out and the United States government went bananas.
Right.
Because they realized how far behind they rounded up all the high IQ kids.
And I was one of them.
You had to have an IQ of 150 or more.
I had 160.
At age 15 is when I, anyway, what they did is anybody with really high IQs, then they went and investigated them.
But they didn't have to do that with my family.
So that's why I wanted to bring up my father.
Can you see it?
Yeah, we can see it.
Handsome fella.
Down with it a little bit.
Okay.
There you go.
Okay.
What's he holding there?
He's holding a new microphone.
He invented all kinds of things.
Wow.
He invented items, if I told you, but he worked with Robert Adler in Chicago.
It often took me, I got to see Adler's Labs.
Adler is the co-founder or co-creator, so-called, of the tilt it this way a little bit.
See the, you can tilt it towards that direction.
There you go, right there.
Perfect.
I see it.
Oh, see it.
Thank you for the monitor.
I appreciate that.
All right.
So that's my father.
Now, you can't tell from just this early photo, but he helped in World War II to find Nazi stations that were distributed across America because he was able to figure out their frequencies, the radio frequencies and so on.
Lee Harvey Oswald and Me00:03:20
Wow.
So he got clearance from the United States government at an early age.
Our whole family, I remember them investigating us, you know, and even I, a small girl, was being questioned, you know, and everything.
So we had a head start.
That way my father wasn't just an ordinary man either.
I say working for Adler turned out that Robert Adler, just like Edison, how Edison went and got Tesla to work on his materials and everything right.
It's the same sort of thing.
We um, my dad, was inventing lots of things for Adler and Adler gave him the money, but Adler got the credit for the sure.
Uh, all the patents got it.
That's what happened.
Okay, we didn't mind, because uh dad made so much money.
Eventually he would go and retire when he was only 41 years old of Florida.
But why did he retire?
He wanted to be a rocket scientist more into anything.
It's in my book.
You can see.
I love it if somebody just hold up the book when I'm talking about.
This book?
Yeah.
Now that's a sabotage one.
You want to hold it up for us?
I can try.
I can hold it here.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
This is your book.
It's called Lee Harvey Oswald and Me.
Right.
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And most of them are in better shape than that one.
That's paper sticking out.
Some of these books got sabotaged.
Actually, most of them did.
So, Lee Harvey Oswald and me will tell you it's got a lot of information in the background we don't have time to talk about, you know, in here.
But, bottom line is, my dad was set to be in the Redstone Rocket Project and everything.
And he was already doing stuff for Bendix and for Raytheon and so on.
Parallel Lives at the Start00:09:44
But my mother refused to have us go to Los Alamos and live behind barbed wire.
Yeah.
And, They also said they'd maybe have to move us around a lot because we might get bombed.
Other things.
And my mother didn't want to go.
It ruined my father.
It broke his heart and he began drinking a lot.
He just retired.
But that ruined a lot of things for our family as well, because my grandmother died in 1956, a few days before the Hungarian Revolution.
Now, my name is Judith Vary Baker.
The V-A-R-Y is Hungarian name.
But even though that came from my father's side, some Germans had it as well.
I love my grandmother.
I love my grandmother very much, and she was the matriarch of the family.
want to cry when i think of her we loved her so very much and here she died of cancer a couple weeks before the hungarian revolution it's very famous that was um october 23rd 1956.
wow now i'm going to this is what inspired you to learn everything you could about cancer absolutely and also then my grandfather was diagnosed with cancer he fought it for years okay and excuse me sure i try not to cry because our whole our lives changed so much after my grandmother died And it never would be the same.
I actually had skipped a couple grades in school, and I actually dropped out of school for a whole year.
I just went in there, took their test, and dropped out.
So I didn't want to go to school.
Right.
So it's interesting, Lee and I both spent a lot of time not going to school.
We had very parallel lives at this time.
It's amazing.
Now he was a little older than I. We're listening on the shortwave radio.
Remember, my dad had the best shortwave.
And back then, that's the internet for us.
Shortwave, we got the news.
And by the way, it was real news, not what we call views today, okay?
Right.
It was the real thing.
So we're hearing machine guns going off.
We're hearing bombs going off.
We're hearing the Hungarians begging America, where were you?
Said you're going to help us.
And you could hear them dying.
It was horrible.
Well, somebody else was listening as well, and that was Lee Ofstwald.
On October 23rd, 1956.
He's listening on shortwave radio to the Please the Hungarians.
You won't find this in Wikipedia.
This is when he was stationed in Japan?
No.
He's only, he just turned 17.
He tried when he was 16 to join the Marines and with a fake birth certificate the Mafia made for him, that didn't work.
And his mother wanted him out anyway.
That was fine with Lee.
He was the youngest and he wanted to follow his brothers in the military.
So he tried to join.
Well, now he's 17.
He's thinking about joining, but he'd like to finish high school.
But then he hears the Hungarian Revolution.
That's on the 23rd.
On the 24th, Lee Oswald joined the Marines to fight the Reds, as he told me with his own mouth.
So anybody telling you he's pro-communist, all that is a front because he wanted to be a spy.
His great dream was to do like Herbert Philbrick, of I Led Three Lives.
And I have a very important document I sent you guys because I would be sent to New Orleans.
I mean, excuse me, to Buffalo, New York at one point for training.
And I'm going to show you as I showed that to Lee and why that's important.
So we have enough time on this wonderful show.
Yes.
I can do that.
Yeah.
Things like this because the background is so important to understand how much I know about Lee Oswald.
Right.
Not just a girlfriend.
In fact, I consider myself his fiancé.
When Lee Oswald, yes, I'll tell you, Lee Oswald, Friday morning, he's going off as he told me, they're probably going to kill him.
He told you that.
He said they're probably going to kill me.
I talked to him only 37 and a half hours before the assassination.
He left his wedding ring behind.
And you're saying?
Because he told me, I'm not going to come with you with that wedding ring on.
He left it behind.
So there's a lot more I can tell you.
Yeah.
It was a real signal to me, you know.
She kept that ring for years.
Marina Oswald did when she heard that he left it behind because he intended to marry someone else.
She sold it.
Really?
Yeah.
Good Lord.
We poor thing.
I mean, you wouldn't want to hold on to it, would you?
No, hell no.
You wouldn't want to hold on to that.
That's right.
So he finally sold it once he realized background on it.
Okay, so let's go back.
I want to go back to Alton Oshner.
That's not back far enough.
I'll just go a little bit here, show you some pictures, because when this IQ thing came along, that's when I got my own lab.
And his name was Dr. Knute Mickelson.
Okay.
Came to visit CIA.
Now, the only way I can prove it is he's using a fake name, but it happened to be in our student newspaper.
Mm-hmm.
where it talked about his whole history like he'd been a spy for Hitler.
I mean, against Hitler, but pretending to be pro-Hitler.
He took a shine to me, thank God, because he came to interview me and two others, David Dietrich and Dave Tracy.
All three of us had scored very, very high IQs in the state of Florida.
Here we're at the same school.
Probably if it had been one of us, I don't know where they made the trip, but he made it for the three of us.
And he focused on me then for almost two weeks.
taught me all kinds of things.
I think it's because I was a girl and he never had a daughter or something, but he told me all about his life and how his family rejected him.
Boy, do I know how that feels now myself because they all thought that he was working as a spy for Hitler, not against it and all that.
Wow.
And you know what?
When I told this to Lee, you should have seen his face, because his whole family was rejecting him because he was doing the same sort of thing, pretending to be Pro-castor, all that right, the fake defection to the Soviet, Imagine he said.
Here's one of the things he said.
Like he got arrested on august 9th uh, for handing out.
They said yep, public disturbance and all that.
I've got so much to say about that.
What happened there.
But he said you have no idea how I felt getting my mugshot.
I've had lived clean, I for my family, and now i'm in New Orleans where I was born and raised.
So much the time and disgracing my family.
I'm doing this for my country.
But it really hurt him And I just about cried with him because I understood, because Mickelson had told me all the.
So when I told him all the stuff Mickelson went through, and there are other things I was able to tell him, it really created a bond between us.
And he would end up he had no one to talk to, but he understood.
We just hit it off immediately.
And I'll talk about how we met as soon as I managed to get through the training.
So we're talking about all that training.
Now, Alton Oxner, I'm going to try and pull this up.
Yes.
things out.
This is very interesting at the time in 1960 when I'm not only getting my own lab but military officers insist that I go and learn Russian.
Okay when you're and again you're still I'm in high school.
You're in high school.
Yeah they want me to be able to translate cancer research things.
Right now I by the way I had invented a new way to get magnesium out of seawater that hadn't been done before.
Yeah I was 16 and that sent me to the International Science Fair.
That's where I brought all my cancer research stuff with me at that time.
Okay.
And so Eli Lilly and all that got to see it.
And although there's many circumstances why I was not able to even get interviewed, it didn't matter because all of a sudden I've got Oak Ridge on my side.
I've got Walter Reed Institute.
They're sending me material.
They will be sending me materials, including esoteric chemicals and things.
I got mice by then from the Rockefeller Foundation.
Then later I would get them from other sources and from banks.
They laundered this through banks, you know, offering the mice, that kind of thing.
But it was all really, I was being started already.
This training, I'm still in high school.
I ended up, well, I want to back up now, show you this, Medicine Urged as Cold War Aid.
I want you to see this.
Okay.
And you might just read the first paragraph for so.
That's Alton Ochsner.
This is 1960.
It's about the same time I've gone to the International Science Fair and so on.
Oshner to propose plan to U.S. State Department.
Dr. Alden Oshner said Friday he will propose that the United States State Department enlist something medical profession in the Cold War with communist nations.
As soon as the new federal administration takes over, I plan to call on the new Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, with.
My recommendation, he said.
Okay.
Oshner Behind Political Big Shots00:02:53
Elton Oshner ends up being on the secret side of things.
All right.
To try and kill Fidel Castro.
Right.
So Alton Oshner was a, what was his background?
He was basically the first doctor, if I'm not mistaken, to find, to correlate lung cancer with smoking, right?
Right.
And by the way, I'll be talking about how I gave lung cancer to mice in only seven days.
Why I got his attention, as you can imagine.
So he was, he had a lot of ties to South American leaders, like the leader of Panama.
And he also had lots of, he was rubbing shoulders with lots of like celebrities and music people.
Everywhere.
And he was very highly regarded.
And allegedly, from what I've read, that he worked with the FBI for some clandestine operation.
He did some sort of secret work for the FBI.
We have not only FBI, I have documents in my possession showing that his last contact with Oxner Clinic was November 1963.
And Alton Oshner was, when we had Jack Cruz on the podcast a few months back, back in October, I think it was, he was explaining kind of the history with Oshner and the, what was the name of the hospital in New Orleans again?
The Oshner Clinic.
The Oshner Clinic in New Orleans.
And how Oshner famously.
Oh, Tulane, Tulane.
Tulane, that's what it was.
Tulane.
He was associated with Tulane, and we were associated with Tulane and also with the Covington, the primate research center, very important.
Right.
And when the Salk vaccine, the Salk polio vaccine was first starting to get rolled out, Oshner was so behind it, as well as the political people that were behind the first rollout of the Salk polio vaccine.
We've got to go back to the first one.
Bernice Eddy came out, and she did this last minute, the 11th hour.
Bernice Eddy did this.
Did this test on a couple monkeys with the polio vaccine.
Well, it's also Sarah Stewart.
And Sarah Stewart, correct?
Unfortunately, he mixed up Sarah Stewart's name with Dr. Mary Sherman's name.
It was really Dr. Mary Sherman that was working with me in New Orleans.
So, right before they rolled out that vaccine, Bernice Eddy did a test on some monkeys with the new Salk vaccine, and they were paralyzed.
She sent photos of that to the heads at the NIH, to her bosses at the NIH, and they all panicked and freaked out and said, Oh my God, no.
Like, we're going to roll this out anyways.
And Oshner was behind this, and he was tied into a lot of political big shots.
And Oshner said, You know what?
We're going to go in front of this auditorium, and I'm going to inject my two grandchildren with the Salk vaccine.
I actually did.
I sent you a picture.
There it is.
His granddaughter died.
I think his grandson died.
His grandson died in two weeks.
Ways to Get to Castro00:02:09
In two weeks.
and his granddaughter was paralyzed, right?
That's right.
And he did this in front of the press and everything.
Now that taught him a big lesson.
This is what you have to understand.
He trusted his doctors.
He trusted them.
Now he realizes Castro has doctors that he trusts.
And some of them secretly hate his guts.
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Factor Meals Ready in Two Minutes00:15:07
There are ways to get to Castro.
If not that, text.
When a doctor asks for a vial of penicillin, somebody takes it out of the refrigerator.
Who put it in?
You have to understand how there are so many ways to get to Castro.
So Oshner essentially worked as like a special surgeon for the FBI, right?
No, CIA.
FBI is only peripheral.
He actually founded Inca.
Inca, yes.
That was the radio program, right?
No, this was called the radio program was part of Inca, I believe.
That's right.
They went to over 3,000 radio stations all over Latin America and Middle America and so on.
And he founded that.
There was also some FBI people that were on the board of Inca.
Of course.
And one of them was my boss.
Let's get started, though.
Something I want you to see.
This is Thursday, March 15th.
I'm going in chronological order.
Okay.
You've got that for 1960 and so on.
When that started in 62.
JFK comes to New Orleans to dedicate a pier.
Now, of all the people that hated JFK, Altnoxner has to be at the top.
Despise the man.
Hated him.
Why?
Oh, for many, many reasons.
He thought he was a communist.
Remember, this guy is always, you can't get anybody more anti-communist than Altnoxner.
That doesn't mean he was always right.
Right.
And this thing, the idea of catering to anything, any demands, he was completely, of course, the CIA told them what they thought of him because of Bay of Pigs and all that.
Right.
Made JFK take the blame.
We now know it wasn't him.
There's a lot I could tell you about David Ferry and how he thought that JFK was to blame as well.
David Ferry is someone that I sent you a clip about him.
And I don't know whether you david Ferry was a former CIA pilot?
He was always a CIA pilot.
Okay.
The thing is, is that I say always.
I mean, anytime from the Bay of Pigs on, okay, and before that, he was training anti-Castro pilots for the CIA and things like that.
And he was a fantastic pilot himself.
But I want you to see this.
It's going to be very remarkable.
This is from the Congress of the United States.
All right.
Thursday, March 15, 1962.
Kennedy is going to come to New Orleans.
Guess who is in charge of all the details for his visit?
Who?
Alton Ochsner.
Alton Ochsner.
A surgeon.
Who hates him.
He gets all the medical information about JFK.
He gets all the information about.
Remember, they had a parade, all the parade information.
One year later, that's going to become very valuable.
We're talking about 1963.
A year later, this is March 62.
And he knows everybody that are involved with the parades and everything.
Okay.
So anyway, here's the document showing he was in charge of everything for JFK.
You go about the center of the document there.
President Kennedy will deliver his address in the city's municipal auditorium about 11 a.m. on May 4th.
However, further details of the visit will be determined by the president at the White House conference with Boggs and the New Orleans mayor, Victor Shire, next Thursday morning.
I may have to read where it is.
You've lost it.
What does it say?
What is the gist of it?
Here, here, let me get it back.
I'll read the part that.
Sorry about that.
All right.
Okay.
Congressman Boggs says all the members that the so this was addressed to Oshner?
Just a moment.
Sure.
The International House of New Orleans will sponsor the president's visit to the Crescent City, Congressman Boggs said.
Dr. Alton Oshner, president of International House and as internationally famous surgeon, will be in charge of arrangements in New Orleans for the president's visit.
Okay.
Well, let me see that.
Yep.
Where's that at?
Just above where you're reading.
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Alton Oshner, President of the International House of Internationally Famous Surgeon.
Wow.
Will be in charge of arrangements in New Orleans for the President's visit, Boggs noted.
Yep.
That's interesting.
From the Congress of the United States House of Representatives, Washington, D.C., for immediate release Thursday, March 15, 1962.
Yeah, I've got all kinds of documents other people don't have.
Here's a picture.
Let's go back a little bit about, as I said, getting my own lab and all that.
It got into.
Probably one of the reasons I didn't get killed like almost everybody did who was in these projects is because I was just too much in the news.
Had newspaper articles and lots of stuff showing me in the labs.
Here we go.
Yeah, you may want to show it.
I can't see well enough to know what I'm doing.
It'll latch onto eyeballs.
So you got to cover up her face.
All right.
This is essentially, this is probably in the emails, right?
This is a picture of you, I'm assuming. doing some lab work.
Yeah, that was in my lab.
Now, that lab.
Manatee High Senior hunts cancer cause.
Yeah, we've got lots of, lots of.
Okay.
All right.
You'll notice one that says national meet there.
All right, with scientists.
It says it near the bottom.
Look.
No, I'm not saying that.
Let me see.
Let me see.
I may have to.
Show it to you anyways.
Yeah no, I get the gist of it.
Well, now this is important.
Senior attends national meet with scientists right here.
Okay, you have better vision than me.
No, I just know where it's.
That's there.
What's important is that this wasn't any ordinary.
I crashed it actually, and they were going to arrest me, but I had nobody.
I had the work I was doing so so advanced that none of the doctors I was working with, even though two of them had trained at Oak Ridge, understood what I was doing.
And see, dr Alt Knoxter would be there Also, Dr. Harold Deal, who is the vice president of the American Cancer Society.
All three of them then came to my lab.
When they saw what I had, by the way, the lab by then had been, people were scared because of the way the mice looked, the big tumors and everything.
They moved me under the stadium.
They rebuilt a lab for me under the stadium.
Okay, so Ostrander came down there.
You were already doing all this research on cancer.
You were like a child prodigy cancer researcher at the age of 15.
I gave up.
I gave up.
But now I'm 17.
Now you're 17.
And then they share.
Then Oshner ships you, somehow recruits you.
No.
All right.
First of all, when they see what I've got, I was able to show them and proved it with all my documents and everything.
Okay.
That I gave my lung cancer in only seven days.
Yep.
It would take them four years to duplicate what I did because it had to be duplicated to prove I did it at Russell Park Institute by Dr. James T. Grace.
Okay.
I did it in three months.
It took them four years.
Wow.
Yeah, well, you've got to think out of the box.
Okay.
That's the problem.
So, you know.
All right.
So when this happened, they sent me to Roswell Park Institute for training, not just ordinary training.
I was in Dr. George Moore, who's he was in charge of 800 researchers.
And they also had a program going on with students and all that they could slip me into.
So they had a reason to get me there, you know.
And I actually went, attended seminars that were by Dr. Moran.
And we've got a photograph I sent to you.
It shows me I'm one of six people they pick out to interview.
So I got the papers and all that in Buffalo, New York and so on.
Why is it important?
Because I wasn't just in the students.
Oh, these are witnesses are coming up.
Wait a minute.
That's okay.
Don't worry about it.
He'll figure it out.
Okay.
All right.
Basically, what's going on is that I am not just one of these other students.
I'm in Dr. I'm at Dr. Moore, who runs the whole thing in his personal lab.
Okay.
We're working on a special formula that can grow cancer cells faster than any other formula on earth.
Right.
Now, why do you want to do that?
They want to grow cancer cells fast so they could figure out, they told me, so they could figure out how to steve, there's a full screen button on the top left.
All right, yeah, that's you'll see I'm the woman, the girl there on the right.
Okay.
Bottom right, that's me there.
And they just picked us.
We were supposed to be the outstanding ones, so they grabbed us and put us together.
But we were talking about hundreds, 60.
They had about 60 of the students there, and some of them were wow.
They were from all over the United States and Hungary and everywhere.
Okay.
But I really was only part of that group for seminars.
I was in Dr. Moore's own lab, and at that time we were working with bacteriophage, we were working with a certain monkey virus, and I became an expert in handling this, one of the few.
But I helped develop something called the RPMI 1640 formula.
It's very complicated.
It grows cancer faster than anything.
I have a document there I sent you that shows that I was asked to do more research on how to make cancer more deadly.
Why?
Well, they told me it's because we have to figure out how to, you know, if we can grow it faster, it gives us ideas on how to, you know, conquer it.
That was a lie.
I was being used to it.
What was the logic?
If we can grow it faster, we can figure out how to conquer it.
Yes.
I might be too dumb to understand that.
Well, the idea being like, if you give kids milk, they're going to grow faster.
Therefore, if you want to kill kids, you're not going to give them any milk.
That's the idea, you know.
Okay.
Yeah, so it's like that.
Okay.
All right, all right.
I fell for it, okay?
Right, okay.
Because they have prestigious doctors.
I believe my doctors, you know, all these important people.
Okay.
I became, after all, I gave cancer to mice in seven days.
So I had methods that they were fascinated with and everything.
By the way, how?
How would you give cancer to mice in seven days?
I knew Dr. James Rainier.
Remember, I say we're a Hungarian family.
My grandmother knew the Rainier family who were born in Vienna, including Dr. Rainier, and we're right across the border in Kapovar.
Just miles away and of course they knew each other is what i'm saying.
My grandmother's very educated, speak many languages and so on.
She even went overseas seven times to get more training in the convent because that's what women girls had to do back then.
So Dr Rainier's actually moved to the of all places, to South Bend.
That's where I was born, that's where my family was.
So we have a bunch of Hungarians there, South Bend, Indiana.
He is a professor at University OF Notre DAME.
My family donated land in Notre Dame.
You can see a small cemetery.
I could get buried there if I wanted, okay?
So we're talking about close ties.
So yes, of course, the ties continue with Dr. Vanier.
He ended up being the first person to develop germ-free mice.
Germ-free mice?
We have them all over the place now because then you can introduce a germ to a mouse and find out really what happens without any interference.
Okay.
Pure, pure, clean mice.
Pure, clean mice.
But let me tell you, you have to put them in an environment where nothing can reach them.
No germs.
Like Bubble Boy.
Okay, right.
But how do you give them cancer?
Well, that's the point.
Is cancer something you can give them?
Or is it because of eating or whatever?
If germ-free mycin, you introduce a certain virus and it causes cancer, bingo.
Okay?
And I did.
With what virus?
Well, if I mention it, I'm going to get in trouble, right?
Go ahead.
No, don't worry about it.
We'll say it.
We'll censor stuff later.
But I didn't know it was that.
It was.
They determined that later.
I cannot prove that.
There's a document I cannot prove.
And how did you.
Well, let me explain how I did this.
No, I'm curious.
So you're trying.
Your goal here is to see if you can give these mice cancer.
Well, because I needed cancer in order to, how are you going to go and kill cancer without cancer?
I understand why you're doing it.
I'm just trying to understand this.
Okay.
So, your goal is to give these mice cancer.
And what tools are you given or what are you looking for?
That's what I'm going to tell you.
And how do you decide which viruses and why do you even choose viruses in the first place?
Wait just a second.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
So, The fact of the matter is, is that, remember I said I had made a new method of getting magnesium out of seawater?
Yeah.
I had chambers that were built that no, if one bit of oxygen got into these chambers, it could explode, it could die.
Okay.
All right.
So I had to pump argon gas on top of the, when we're refining the magnesium, you know, at one point.
If any oxygen got in, it could explode.
My dad didn't want to lose me, so he helped develop.
I had two chambers.
Well, those turned out to be perfect for putting germ-free mice in.
Nothing could get in.
Okay.
Yeah, so we could pump in the air, filter it, and all that kind of thing.
Okay, so where did you get the virus?
Well, we didn't know it at the time, but I collected lots of cigarette butts from everywhere.
And that virus can be trapped in the cigarette filters.
Can?
All kinds of viruses can be trapped in these asbestos-type filters.
Okay.
I mean, we didn't know what they were.
It's just they isolated it later.
I didn't.
So you were taking cigarette butts?
We took them from all over it.
And so it's beautiful in that way because we couldn't say it all came from Manatee County.
All my friends collected probably 50 pounds.
And you were somehow taking something off the cigarette butts and giving it to the rats?
Yes.
What I was giving them wouldn't have killed a virus, it would have killed almost any bacteria and all that.
It didn't really.
Anything left.
And since they were germ free, something got them.
And then they found out that the mice had that.
How did you find out?
Well, they were tested, but I wasn't ever, the reason I don't bring this up is I don't have the documents for that.
Okay.
Trapping Viruses in Filters00:09:47
But they understood after they did the testing, that's why I was sent for fast-track training and all that, and especially to work with that virus.
So you gave the mice cancer in seven days.
They went, you sent the tumors off to be tested.
They did, yeah.
They did.
They didn't tell you anything.
See, I had to crash this seminar.
I couldn't get anybody to do the proper electromicroscope work that had to be done to serve the virus, kind of whatever was.
And then you go to New Orleans.
No.
Now that's what my enemies have said.
Oh, straight from high school.
Why?
Why do your enemies say that?
Because they tried to claim that I didn't get the special training.
Oh, okay.
And why?
Because this is oh, then you went to New York where you got the special training.
Right.
But more, then I went from there.
And that's, you have something, the abstract.
And I wanted to tell you what's going on there because it's really important.
I gave you a document there.
Okay.
And the document says it should show a sister.
We have a lot to get through.
Yeah, and we're already an hour in okay, so let's, let's try to move through this a little bit.
All right, you saw the document, so i'm just going to say it this way, yeah I, I am doing research, good cancer research.
Under Eli Lilly, I sanded you an abstract showing you but the you.
But today, that same ST Francis University claims I never did any cancer research.
Okay, and I gave you.
Um, by the way, here's a picture of the rat.
Oh yeah, that's just give you an idea of those kind of Oops, there.
Yeah.
So when we're talking about scary, you can understand why they want to move what I was doing under the stadium away from it.
That's crazy.
That's insane.
The tumor's bigger than the rat.
That's right.
In seven days, it gets that size.
That is a mouse.
Freaking nuts.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
So, I mean, it's terrible, of course.
Yeah.
All right.
Here's the Eli Lilly abstract.
Okay.
This says bacteriology chairman Gordon Mallett, Eli Lilly, Gordon Mallett, Eli Lilly.
And Indiana University was elected chairman in 1962.
Well, just go down the abstract.
Abstract studies on the increase of in vitro of mitotic activity.
You want me to read it?
You read it.
You're smarter than me.
Your IQ is probably doubled mine.
Please.
No, I can just do it a little faster.
Okay.
All right.
Studies in the increase in vitro of mitotic activity and melanogenesis, the RPMI number 57113 strain Milano.
Okay, it says Judith Ferry and Sister Claire Francis because I was a minor and I had to have someone with me.
Yeah.
But this is from obviously from St. Francis College.
Okay, got it.
But now I gave you a document showing that they claim, according to them, that they never did any such research.
I think I gave you a little piece of paper there to read.
This?
Yeah, because they claim that no research was done, that there was never any Sister Mary Veronica.
Who gave me a scholarship and that they claimed I said I was 16.
Other things are not true.
This is an original?
Yeah, that's an original.
Written in 2015?
Yeah, from an investigator who asked them.
Go ahead and read it.
Okay.
I, Thomas R. Rosoff Sr., went to St. Francis University in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
I inquired from a sister there about St. Mary University.
This guy's got a terrible handwriting.
The nun said, Oh, my old Latin teacher.
Later, the archivist emailed me that there was no St. Mary, Sister Mary Veronica.
There was no Sister Mary Veronica that taught at that university.
This is 10 30, 2015.
I was surprised that the archivist nun told me an untruth.
Yeah, so they lied and said, I never did any research there.
I've got some other papers I could show you, but you know.
That's the one.
I mean, it was okay.
Yeah, got it.
So, Eli Lilly paved their, gave them a brand new parking lot for a million dollars right after that.
Oh, it was nice of him.
Yeah.
So, we, um, the background that I'm using this just as an example of how everything I did has been scrubbed okay, almost all over.
That's why I'm focusing on this because some of them you looked at it.
I've said things I can't prove except that I have internal documents, right?
All right, so quickly, I'll say, Mr. Rose off, I finally got a chance to talk with Sister Jo Ellen.
While we do have a record of a Judith Ann Verry having attended St. Francis, all right, all of the other information in the letter is inaccurate.
Sister Mary Veronica has not taught here or been an administrator, and I showed you a letter from her.
Right.
Yeah.
We did not have sisters who were doctors or research technologists.
You saw the one that's in the abstract there.
Sister, what's her face?
Okay.
Right.
Right.
And we did not do cancer research.
Okay.
All right.
Sister Ellen and her doctoral dissertation on the history of the school, however, knows nothing of the situation Judith mentions.
That's why it's so.
I'm using this as an example of what they have done all along the line to get rid of me.
And then they say, she's not in the record.
Okay.
All right.
So that's the easiest one to show you.
Got it.
All right.
All right.
Now, all right.
So I've got all this special training.
Sure.
They put a lot of money in me.
I have memorized the RPMI 1640 formula, which still hadn't gotten out to the public yet and still had some more tweaking to do.
But it was the best formula in the world.
For growing cancer cells faster than anything.
Okay.
And so they brought me to New Orleans.
Now, wait a minute.
And here I'm running around with strippers.
Right.
And they can't send some ugly, dirty old man or doc, you know, to, intercept me.
They're out of town.
I came two weeks early.
I was free and I hadn't been.
These people had trained me to the like.
I haven't even mentioned training at University OF Florida, where I also invented a new way to detect cancer in your in bloodstream and some other stuff.
Wow yeah, so I was doing stuff that that would turn out that detection of of live cancer in the bloodstream.
They needed me later when they were trying to kill.
They were trying to kill so-called volunteers for cancer research that came from Angola Prison.
Oh, wow.
I handed you a document showing for Dick Russell about Dr. Heath.
I sent you a picture of Dr. Heath with monkeys and all that.
Mm-hmm.
You with their heads sticking out of the box?
Yeah.
Well, he is working as Dr. Silva.
Dr. Silva was at Jackson Hospital and, of course, claimed that.
That's this picture, right?
That's right.
You see that stop.
Well, Dr. Silva is not in that picture, but Dr. Heath is.
Dr. Heath works with David Ferry.
There's an awful lot of stuff that people don't know about David Ferry you'll see him in the film Jfk and we became close friends.
Why I wanted to become a nun?
The reason I went to St Francis is I found out they would put me through medical school.
It'd be just super.
You know no problem, all right anyway.
Now I was a.
That's crazy.
That they do that to monkeys, that's.
That's something out of a cruelty is horror.
Oh, believe me, we killed about 150 000.
Could you imagine if aliens did that to us?
I know.
Just think about it.
We've got to reform things.
You have no idea how much I admire Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
He knows all the stuff.
All right, this is a letter.
You can just look at it.
This confirms that I was sent.
I told her beforely, this is one of my schoolmate chums at the University of Florida, okay?
And we were taking medical courses together.
She's now Dr. Kathy Santee.
Okay.
And you read there, it says, I told her I was going to go to New Orleans.
Because Dr. Oxner wanted me there and I'd be entering Oxner Medical School, which is actually Tulane Medical School.
Right, right.
Skip two years.
It'd be just the last two years of medical there.
I'd skip college and everything.
Wow.
Now, of course, I had the incentive and I'd be working with the wonderful Dr. Mary Sherman.
So, of course, I went.
Dr., excuse me, I don't know whether I gave you.
There's so much stuff and we don't have enough time.
So, how did you.
How did you meet Mary Sherman?
Actually, I tried to meet her at David Ferry's.
I actually how did you know about?
Did you know about her previously?
Oh, my gosh, she's famous.
Oh, really?
Fauci or something today.
No, why?
Like famous in a negative way like he was?
Positive.
Okay.
I mean, everybody thought the world over, but she knew Sarah Stewart.
She knew these other wonderful she was an expert on what was she famous for?
She was an orthopedic surgeon who was working with polio patients, kids.
Okay.
And that's when Dr. She was working with Dr. Ochsner when Ochsner lost his grandson.
And they decided to work together to try and conquer this horrible thing that happened with this contamination.
Right.
So what happened when he lost his grandson, from what I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Salk polio vaccine was supposed to have a dead virus in it, and it had live virus.
This is cutter.
It's a version of Salk.
Okay.
Eradicating Polio Safely00:02:17
And don't believe it that every time that they talk about that they have made it.
So this, polio virus is incapacitated.
You know it's still there, but so it will you elicit an immune response.
But don't believe the fact that they always kill all of it or they get make it so it's uh, not going to give polio.
It happens all the time, every once in a while.
So you can eradicate polio and they give everybody pull, keep giving them polio shots, and polio will come back because you're going to find and they just, let's say, 99.99 of the time, but they give you, it's safe.
And then this one didn't get inactivated.
Let me explain about, for example, the virus.
Now, this has nothing to do with um they, they should allow me to say this, okay, anywhere have you ever looked at a brand and thought to yourself, how do they sell so much?
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Artificially Created Bacteriophages00:09:52
Now back to the show.
Most viruses are RNA viruses.
Ribose.
They're not DNA.
They don't live in the cell inside of your body.
They live.
I mean, I'm talking about the nucleus.
They're in the outside and they can't affect your DNA.
But virus is different.
It is a DNA virus.
It can literally penetrate your cell.
That is your nucleus.
But it's itsy bitsy teeny tiny.
Now, when they go and kill all these, they're used to RNA viruses.
Oh, you put them in formaldehyde.
You know, as you're making your material to make the inject shots you want to, you know, just go ahead and um, put them in formaldehyde for seven days.
They're dead virus.
It takes 30 days in formaldehyde and they didn't know that.
So the polio virus dies, but the virus lives, the polio virus is clean and that it doesn't have the contaminations.
They grew the virus on top of chopped up monkey kidneys.
Right, the monkey kidneys this Stupid from the beginning because kidneys are going to, the monkey kidneys carry so many viruses.
This thing was called the number 40.
They had 39 other viruses.
Yeah.
Was 40 the last one or were there more than 40?
There were more.
Okay.
But this is the one that stood out.
It was absolutely.
Yeah, but then so when they made the second version of the polio vaccine, I forget the name of the company that did the second rollout of them that seemed to be more safe.
They seemed to be working.
They didn't kill the viruses.
They just weakened them somehow.
Well, that's the problem.
What if you didn't weaken some of them enough?
Sure, sure.
But why would it work better, though, if they're weaker instead of dead?
Well, the idea, if it's dead, maybe the body's immune system is not going to respond to it.
Sabine Sabine was the name of the Sabine.
Yeah, yeah and yeah.
But all of these have their faults and flaws.
They simply we have got to get a different mindset.
We need to get away from thinking we can solve everything through the immune system and through shots.
It's dangerous, we're going too far.
I have a lot of people that agree with me that we need to rethink medicine.
How would we rethink it?
Well, you've been taught that everything is can be solved with a shot.
No, not necessarily.
I think shots are a big part.
I'm talking about big pharma, what they do.
Big pharma, right.
So essentially, the idea is that we introduce a little bit of a virus or some sort of a disease to your immune system that is not harmful, but it builds up the antibodies so your body can learn how to fight this thing.
Well, let me tell you what's really going on.
Sure.
All right, because it's a little bit worse than that.
The theory is excellent.
All right.
It works to some extent.
It's an ancient theory.
It goes back to Marcus Aurelius.
Well, I would say that it's obsolete as far as to what's really going on, just like we know we don't have really ether up there in the, we have black matter and so on.
So we need to upgrade our thinking on this.
What we have is the presence of a virus.
Say it's polio.
Okay.
But the body, if we went to a respiratory virus, for example, And that goes into your system.
You get an immune response to deal with it, right?
So the idea of shots is that you're going to put this stuff in the body and it's going to have an immune response.
And that this stuff is not as dangerous as a real thing would be.
Right.
That's not always the case.
Not always the case.
That's right.
And the problem is human beings make mistakes.
And not only that, but mutations occur.
And in the respiratory virus world, that's exactly what they do forever.
You can't even, through one flu season, it's already going to change to something else.
Right.
Well, here's the thing.
So you've got a percentage of immune response.
It's not enough to sell the product.
So they put something else on top of it to top it off to make an immune response and say it's for the whole thing.
But it's not.
It's not for just the virus.
They add this stuff on top and that's artificially making a response that has nothing to do with the original response.
Right.
That's why you have to get boosters.
Right, right.
And then it can sell boosters forever.
How would you approach it differently?
Well, I was very much pro all these shots and everything, okay?
Until I realized that we have never cured cancer.
Then I realized that we're making a lot of money with shots.
Sure.
And a lot of money in what we call the cancer treatment industry and cancer treatment palaces.
Mm-hmm.
But those big palaces being built and with all their industry associated with treatment, where are all the palaces being built to cure it?
There's no incentive whatsoever to cure and there won't be.
We could have cured cancer.
I know how to cure cancer.
How?
Bacteriophage.
Who?
See, bacteriophage.
What does that mean?
Bacteriophage means to eat in Greek.
Oh, really?
So you've got a virus that eats bacteria, but also these viruses are allowed, they actually can eat viruses.
These bacteria can eat viruses.
No, viruses, bacteriophage is a virus that eats bacteria.
Oh, a virus that eats bacteria.
But, yes, they use it in all the sewer systems.
Think of all the diseases that go into our filthy sewage and everything.
Click on the Wikipedia.
Steve Wikipedia, don't you use Wikipedia?
Oh, what do we go?
Spookapedia, what's the?
What's the?
What's the other one called?
What's the one Ian Carroll taught us about?
Remember how?
Uh, come on man, I don't.
It's like spookapedia or something.
Oh uh, Wikipedia for spooks.
Just stay away, just put up bacteriophage and just go to um images, because then you can, right here, look at.
This is known as informally as the phage is a virus that infects.
Can you zoom in a little bit?
A virus that infects and replicates within bacteria, and I don't know what that word is.
Archaea?
The term is derived from the ancient Greek word to devour, phagene.
Okay.
Almond would crucify me as well.
It's very simple.
The reason that they don't use it is too easy.
Too easy to cure cancer with it.
They can't make any money.
So, bacteriophages are composed of proteins that encapsulate a DNA or RNA genome and may have structures that are either simple or elaborate.
Okay.
Anyway, you can engineer them very easily, too easily.
They can't make, they can't.
Patent them because you can easily engineer them.
10 different ways to cure cancer, really.
Now, what's wonderful about bacteriophages?
Once they eat it all up, so they eat up all the cancer cells, leave a bag of pus behind, so to speak.
If, if it's a tumor, all right.
Well, aspirate that out with a needle big deal.
They go to sleep.
They don't wake up until they brush against a cancer again, so they hibernate in your body.
That's right.
Have you ever tried this?
Well, we were doing that in 19 get this in 1961.
It At Roswell Park, we were working with bacteriophage.
Really?
Yes.
So how specifically, so you injected this into mice or something?
Or monkeys?
Mice, monkeys, we use marmosets actually there.
That's in between.
Okay.
Yeah, marmosets are easy and fast and cheap.
And so you gave these marmosets they had cancer.
They had cancer, or you gave it to them, or they already had it, one way or the other.
Yeah, you gave them cancer.
And then you gave them this stuff, this bacteriophage.
Well, this is special, but it only took a few months to create it.
So you can't patent this stuff because it's so easy to make.
And what happened after you gave them the bacteriophage?
Well, they survived.
It went away.
And then Marmara says they have a short life, but if the cancer started up again, the bacteria woke up.
The bacteriophage.
That's crazy.
And we can't get, I've been trying since 1999.
We have one company that has, you know what they did?
They have trained bacteriophage to go to cancer cells and guess what?
Piggyback in, inject in chemo.
That they can go in and which is deadly and poisonous.
Yeah, so here they've trained this bacteriophage to go actually go to the cells, but not to kill the cells Now it'd take thousands of them, but they're little tiny.
They're like little mosquitoes Wow They work there you see how simple they are do you there are three major The first things that we created artificially was the virus the bacteriophage and the polio Now ask yourself, why would they create these artificially?
These three, these are the first they ever created artificially.
Wow.
You see what I'm saying?
What about for cancer, Steve?
What can you find about that and cancer together?
Okay, let's keep going.
Let's see if we can do that.
He'll find it.
So anyway, there's an awful lot of that.
Now, Lee Oswald is assigned.
Oh, my gosh, we've got so much to talk about.
Let's do it.
All right.
So they send him.
He's cute.
Now, I thought I was in love with a guy.
Okay.
And this guy, let me show.
We're going to have to really move.
into different areas that I had thought, but let me see if I can find what I had.
Lee Oswald Assigned to Cuba00:15:43
Excuse me.
Yeah, I'm going to show you.
Yeah, right here.
Look right here.
It says, bacteriophages have been studied for their ability to deliver therapeutic agents directly to tumors, making them promising tools for targeted cancer therapy.
See?
Not only can you get them there, I mean, they're not even talking about the fact, why don't you let them attack the cancer?
They can, you see.
Wow.
And here they can train them to go there and we're not going to use them.
Because El Cheapo can't patent it because it's easy to just do a minor little twist, you know?
Yeah, so they won't go there.
Wow.
If you cure cancer, all those palaces are going to go down.
If you cure cancer you cannot patent a pharmaceutical.
You want to know why my voice is being silenced?
Billions of dollars are at risk.
Billions.
And I'm just one little voice.
They've erased.
I can't get my own birth certificate.
Mine says female oh, I can't.
I don't who's hiding it?
It's been I have in my book, you can see my birth certificates I've tried.
The most recent said that my father's last name is Ward, W-A-R-D, and I could go on like that.
Can't use it.
People say how evil you are because you were married, new married, and here you start having an affair with Lee Oswald.
Well, I was married one day when my husband abandoned me.
He said, I'm not going to tell you where I'm going because you wouldn't have married me if I told you I'm going to be gone most of the summer.
He said, bye-bye.
I'm not going to tell you where I am.
He took off.
Wow.
But that night where I live was raided by the police.
By the way, we've gone to the house where the raid occurred.
I went with researchers.
Always I have witnesses.
And told them what happened long, long ago.
It turned out Lee Oswald had put me in a house of ill repute.
Now, he'd been in New Orleans for 10 years.
He thought it was a nice boarding house, but it had changed.
Okay.
And actually went to own it.
By the way, very fancy place.
I have a picture of it.
We don't have time for everything, but it's very fancy.
It's in my book.
Okay, we're jumping ahead to the affair.
All right, yes, but I'm going to show you something.
I want you to read this postcard.
Robert Baker, my husband, for a day.
All right, now I've been married a month to him.
Now, notice on this, it says it is from New Orleans.
Please turn the picture over so you can see the other sign.
You can show that to everybody.
Greetings from New Orleans.
Right.
Okay.
Now, where am I living?
I'm living in New Orleans.
Right.
He's dropping a postcard as he's coming through New Orleans.
He doesn't have time to visit me.
This is my new husband.
Go ahead.
But he sends you a postcard from New Orleans.
Yeah.
Hi there.
Just stopped in New Orleans and thought I'd drop a line.
This is my new husband.
Boy, is the weathering miserable here.
I'll be back through in a couple of days.
Eat enough.
Take care of yourself because I'm loving you, Bob.
Yeah.
Bob Baker.
Yeah.
How would you like to get a postcard from your new husband that you don't know where he is or what he's doing?
He'll be through in a couple days of wham bam.
Thank you, ma'am.
Okay.
Wow.
Now, anybody think that I get raided?
I have nobody to help me.
What is this guy doing?
What is his career?
Well, he's a scientist.
His IQ was so high it was classified.
His IQ was so high it was classified?
186.
Who's he worked for?
Guess.
But anyway, he ended up being one of the top scientists for, no, at that time he was still getting all his credentials.
Did he tell you this or did you learn this later?
Oh, no, no, I knew it.
Okay.
I couldn't find anybody compatible with.
You have to understand.
And you married him when you were how old again?
Well, I was 19.
You were still 19 and you married this dude you met in New Orleans.
Who happened to be the highest IQ?
No, I didn't meet him in New Orleans.
I met him at University of Florida.
And he was, because I was taking high math classes and all that's been wiped out, okay?
Okay.
And met him in one of the classes that summer.
And I had plenty of boyfriends.
I was very athletic as well and had earned four. athletic medals at University of Florida.
Okay.
And all that.
And later he would tell one of my sons, I married her for her legs.
So anyway.
You had good legs, huh?
Yeah, they still are good.
I could show you.
It's amazing.
Let's keep the podcast on.
We don't want to make this podcast X-rated.
I'm just trying to say that.
It was very liberal-minded.
I was a good girl.
I didn't run around.
In fact, I had a lot of boyfriends.
University of Florida has just gotten to where they were co-ed.
10 years earlier, before it was all moat and it's engineering and science, and so i'm sorry that most of the girls there looked like they had horse faces.
You know really well, I don't know why.
Yeah, but I didn't right.
You were a hot, you were one of the hot ones yeah, and so I had all these boyfriends, but I, I didn't want to ruin my reputation.
I told each of those boys, i've got a problem, please.
You know, look at these other guys, please protect me from these other guys.
I told every one of them that so it.
But you know, so I had a good reputation and I earned it, But he was different.
He ended up seducing me because he could beat me in chess.
He could beat you in chess?
Yeah.
Wow.
And he told you he was a high-level scientist with a freaking 200 IQ working for the CIA, I'm going to guess.
Well, I'll put it this way.
Just like me, he was being handled.
And, you know, we didn't.
Now, all they were interested in was for mathematics.
He would end up being one of the top forever.
Exxon made probably billions because of him.
Wow.
If I told you all the stuff he invented, you still see some of the stuff online.
Anyway, he took off and if he's interested in something that's more important than I was, that's just the way it was.
Okay.
So he abandoned me.
I had nobody.
I had this phone number.
Lee Oswald met me at the post office when I was looking for letters from him.
He's supposed to write every day.
Is he going to come and marry me?
Maybe.
I mean, like Lee said, loving to the death.
So walk me through the moment you first met.
Uh, Lee Harvey Oswald.
All right, i'm at the post office.
I'm, by the way, I didn't have any money because I came two weeks early.
My grant I didn't have it, stipend or anything.
So I actually got a job, uh flipping burgers, so to speak, because this waitress, she was stopping the job out there and uh got got it raised to where she could work in town.
This is 45 minute now.
Who goes and gets on a bus goes 45 minutes out to work, just two hours, just enough to pay for my room, you know.
And come back 45.
Lee Oswald thought I was out there.
Bobby Kennedy was at the Royal Castle where I was working.
I had sent monitors there because Carlos Marcelo, the Godfather, was right next door, just a few blocks down.
And this was open 24 hours.
Lee thought, because I was only going out there in the morning for two hours and back this crazy, you know, what, for $2?
I mean, who does that?
Thought I was a courier.
All this started because when he was sent to met me, they don't give you all the information.
It's just need to know.
All he knew about me is I was a cancer researcher that was supposed to work with Dr. Mary Sherman.
And David Ferry told him to go and meet me.
That's all he knew.
Oh, he was instructed to go meet you?
Yes, but I didn't know that at the time.
They want to stop this me running around with these hookers and things, you know, without realizing I'd never I mean, I had my first drink, you know, and everything.
Yeah.
All right.
So anyway, I'm angry because there's no letter.
The man said he's going to write me every day and he's going to tell her he's going to come marry me.
Well, I don't need him.
I mean, you know, if you don't want to marry, big deal.
Look at these legs.
You think I need this nerd?
Okay.
It's sort of like that.
Yeah.
I got pawed over like crazy in New Orleans.
Yeah.
And so I sure did want that kind of life.
Excuse me.
I can't see very well.
Yeah, you're fine.
Okay.
I'll lower it for you a little bit.
Thank you.
Okay, so here I am.
And I turn around.
There's a nice looking guy behind me dressed, you know, real decent, kind of cute.
I had been carrying around a rolled up newspaper that had code on it because this Robert Baker didn't want his family to know that he was dating me because they were anti-Catholic and they thought I was Catholic.
Now, I had given up on Catholicism.
I had become an atheist because, at when I was at ST Francis University, my father came up there and kidnapped me to get me out of the convent there, and so it was horrible.
And since god didn't want me, I believed there was no god.
You know, I just big deal, I offer my life to god.
And what happened?
I didn't realize how god was going to use me.
So anyway, i'm angry and there's no letter from this man.
He says, well, I might come marry you.
We want birth control control pills.
I thought I was in love.
I was in love with sex.
I was introduced to sex by this complete um, mechanically accurate man.
All right, mechanically accurate, yeah.
In other words, he knew how to please, but it doesn't mean he loved.
There's a difference.
Oh okay yeah yeah, yeah.
And I didn't know the difference, of course, because that was the only person I ever knew, and I say he seduced me.
He ran away, actually left, said, if you won't, you know, be a grown-up in this modern age, forget you, you know.
He uh, and a month later he came back and and all my friends and everything, I ran into his arms.
I said, you win, you know.
So that's the way it was.
And then, so we're going to get married.
Well, we did.
He said, we've got to hurry and get married.
I thought it was because he loved me.
He actually did.
Never said, I love you, by the way.
So we go to Mobile, Alabama.
Then I found out he did that in a hurry because he's got to get on a quarterboat and do scientific research for this group.
Okay.
So he's gone.
And here comes the police raid.
I was thrown out in the middle of the street.
All right.
Only number I had was this phone number that came with Lee Oswald.
Now back to the post office.
He was sent there.
I finally figured it out.
It took me years to realize it was on purpose.
But anyway, I have this newspaper with a code on it so that Robert knew I arrived in New Orleans without making a phone call that his parents would intercept and say, are you still doing stuff with that Catholic girl?
You know.
And I dropped the newspaper.
He picks it up.
It's got code on it.
Jario de Jario.
I mean, it looks weird.
Yeah.
And I thought, I'm going to flirt with this guy.
I know Russian.
Who knows Russian?
I'll say something.
I say, what did you say?
So I'm going to do that.
So I go, he picks it up and hands it to me.
I go, like that.
I thought he'd say, and he answered me in Russian.
What?
He said, it's not wise to speak Russian in New Orleans.
What year is this again?
This is 1963.
This is 63?
April 26th, 1963.
That's when I met him.
Oh, my God.
He was just back from Moscow, right?
He's only been back less than a year.
Wow.
But wait a minute.
I knew these spies.
I told you about one, Tony Lopez, for Sketa, I dated.
His father was the finance minister of Cuba for Fidel Castro.
Right, right.
And it was secretly CIA.
I learned so much stuff from Tony.
You wouldn't believe.
Then I knew all this stuff from Knut Mickelson, who was a CIA guy who taught me all kinds of tradecraft.
He thought it was funny.
I learned how to do.
Invisible ink, all kinds of.
Lee Oswald thought I was trained by the CIA, but it was by people who liked me.
I mean, you know, who were involved.
And I didn't know.
Wow.
So when you met him.
He thought I was CIA just like him.
He had only given the information to intercept me and make sure I got to meet David Ferry because Mary Sherman would be there and we were supposed to meet.
So what was it like when you guys first met?
You bumped into each other.
He dropped his newspaper.
You guys, you talked to him in Russia.
And then what?
What did he ask you?
What did he say to you?
Well, it's like this.
No.
I said I said that to him.
He said it's not wise to speak uh uh Russian in New Orleans.
He said can you wait a minute?
And then he asked for stuff for him.
He had to pretend to he and so I heard his name.
Is there anything here for mr Lee H Oswald is the way he said it.
So I knew his name right away and boy, that set off a bell in my head because he was big news in the newspaper and I remember stuff I read.
He was big news in the newspapers, you know way back.
And his picture there from From what again?
Well, he was a so-called defector.
Yes.
He was front page.
Everything had to do with this was all over the news before all this.
Oh, my gosh, yes.
And here he's walking around a free man.
Uh-uh.
No way.
I knew too much.
And so, you know what I said in the right way?
When he said, he confirmed that he had been in the USSR for 30 months and he'd come back with a wife and child.
I said, you are a hero.
You are a shining hero.
He was shocked.
I knew enough to know what kind of man he really was.
Uh, he wasn't ready for that, you know.
All he knew is I was some kind of asset he's got to make sure and protect until they get back.
That's all he knew.
When I say he was a hero, it just dropped his guard.
He wasn't ready for that.
He's so used to, you know, and he had gone through just like Knut Nickelson.
You know his family does not have anything to do with him or anything.
They think he's horrible when he's not.
He's one of ours and to have someone he could talk to.
This is how it started.
We hit it off right away because he thought I was in as deep as he was.
It's only because I knew all these words and terms I knew, the acronyms and everything.
It's because of the people I associated for, by that time, for two years with anti-Castro patriots.
I knew so many things.
Yeah.
So by the time he and David Ferry realized that David Ferry had asked for somebody, an assistant, to help because it turned out he had to make lots of plane flights to Miami, try and get his pilot's license back.
Long story.
They asked for assistance, and both of them thought they said a female instead of a male because he was homosexual and they thought they didn't want anybody to seduce.
We have, actually, I have the witness who was supposed to be there, Michael Costiniano.
Okay, very difficult name.
Anyway, he's the one that did the Promise Program.
He was very young, like myself.
In fact, he was like 50.
Okay.
And so they were expecting someone young, and they thought, well, they sent a girl because they don't want to have a guy because Ferry has been accused of seducing young kids, you know.
And that wasn't true.
They were teenagers, but, you know, young boys.
So they thought they sent me instead.
And that was not true.
It was Michael was supposed to go, and we have his statement and everything.
Okay.
Proof of Survival Time Cards00:09:51
But I'm there.
I got, because.
Michael stayed with Guy Bannister for a while bugging his stuff so he didn't get there in time.
So then I was in there so Michael went did something else.
All right so now I'm with Lee and Lee says look we got to get you out of the YWCA you don't want to be with the strippers.
That's when he put me in this place.
He called ahead of time and he thought way worried he shouldn't have done it.
He said I've got a very pretty girl here and she's a very nice girl where's the best place I can put her?
And when they named the place he knew it was a good place but no head change.
The guy on the other end thought he meant he was trying to put somebody in who was a high-class prostitute.
Poor Lee.
He didn't mean that at all.
It's just the way he worded it.
It came out that way.
Now I hate him.
I'm out on the sidewalk being kicked out.
I hate him.
I hate Robert Baker.
I hate Gautam-Auckner where all the men in my life have ruined my father, got me out of the convent.
I am totally anti-human being male.
Okay.
And Lee has to deal with me.
He feels very bad about what happened.
tries to make up for it, and finally moves me into this lady's house, and I have the front room, front apartment, and she is adorable.
She knew Lee from the time he was a little kid and went to Sunday school classes, and she taught arts and crafts and all this kind of thing.
And he gave her a puppy.
Anyway, to make a long story short, her name is Susie Hanover.
She had a little girl that stayed that summer with her, her great-granddaughter, Claudia, who saw Lee.
There with me at that apartment so often a couple years ago and she went on um, she's on film and tape and everything she saw Lee with me at my apartment so much she thought he lived there.
So I I have lots of.
She's only one of many witnesses I have.
All of that is ignored completely.
Now why is she still around?
Oh gosh yes, i've sent you a picture of her.
I've sent you a picture of various witnesses i've got.
Okay yeah, one of the questions um yeah, a lot of your detract Bring up is like you have no hard proof you ever met Lee because there's no photos, right?
But we're also talking about the 60s, the early 60s.
Yeah, tell me how many people carrying cameras around, right?
But also, Lee Oswald is pretending to be pro Castro, he is protecting this group that's trying to create a biological weapon to kill Castro, right?
And they've done it over 600 attempts.
How is Lee involved?
How is Lee Oswald involved in this so called plot to create a biological weapon to assassinate Castro?
Okay, because you don't want to have too many people involved.
You know, we have a ring of labs.
None of the people in the ring know about anybody else, only the part of the project they're working on.
There were over 159 covert medical research facilities in the U.S. at that point.
Yeah.
Well, believe me, I have documents I've shown you, one of them about Dick Russell showing that.
Who is this?
That is a worker at Riley, and she corresponded to me.
She's a witness that, yes, I did work at Riley.
The coffee company.
Coffee company, not shop.
You see, somebody said coffee shop, and I said, aha, you're looking at something that's 25 years old from the past.
And they're trying to say, Lee and I just worked at a coffee shop.
So it was like a company, a coffee company.
Yes.
That you weren't necessarily pouring coffee like a barista.
Of course not.
What were you doing specifically?
I was a vice president's secretary.
Me at 19 years old who could only type 19 words a minute.
It went up to 21 at the time.
Okay.
I mean, it's ridiculous.
So you guys were shipping loads of coffee all over the country?
That has nothing to do with that.
These were cover jobs that were hardly there.
So it was coffee, a coffee company.
Coffee company.
What was it a cover for?
Well, we had to have some proof of how we were surviving there for what we were doing.
So you have to have what they call cover jobs.
And I gave you a particular, I have, I saved all of them.
Now understand that we were told this is a legitimate pay stub.
And I've got all of them.
I mean, this thing is, you can tell it feels like it's decades old.
And it says right here, date June.
It's printed on here with a typewriter, June 7th, 63.
Salary, $46.
Yeah.
Well, I've got a whole bunch.
I can't bring everything with me because something could happen to them.
You know, I just show you an example.
WMB Riley and Company, New Orleans, USA.
Yeah, well, I've got all of them.
Now, I saved all of them because we thought we were saving America from Castro's Third World War.
Okay, we want to get rid of Castro, but we don't want the United States blamed.
How do you do it?
He gets cancer.
He gets lung cancer.
Who knows more about giving lung cancer?
All right, because we killed, oh, at least 150 monkeys.
That summer.
So I'm sure they had a bunch of ideas on how they could whack him.
But I understand that Lee and I have 11 of those together.
We were hired the same way.
We went.
Wait, what?
We're looking at multiple.
Please, Dubs now?
Yeah, these are all mine.
These are all yours?
Okay.
But he has them too.
Okay, got it.
They confiscated his, but they match mine.
So you guys started working at this coffee company the same day?
Wait, but there's more.
A lot of people don't know because there are only two documents in the Warren Commission thing.
Actually, we spent one week at what's called Standard Coffee before going there.
That was also owned by Riley, but only eight people were working there.
And they're trying to say we didn't meet each other, but this is so ridiculous.
Again, get this.
Standard Coffee were there one week and they laundered our records there.
Okay.
And then that same day, we got all the records showing we were transferred together the same day to Riley.
And we started work the same day in two different departments of the same company, of course.
But I had to cover for him.
And that means when in the morning he would check in and I've got the records.
By the way, I had to force the FBI using a contact they had because the FBI had the records showing that I was the one seven times out of 11.
I had to go and okay lease cards.
That's why they had me as vice president secretary because he was in charge of finances and security.
If they ever had trouble with anybody's time card, so you're supposed to write May 40th personnel was.
And he said, yeah, he's been there 40 hours, you know, and there's his.
Time card, they couldn't do it for him because they didn't know where it was.
So, seven times out of 11 weeks, the cards came to me and I marked them.
I gave you one to show you.
Has the J on it?
I showed you one.
You have one.
Oh, I have one of the time cards that you signed off on.
Yeah, that's that blue sheet.
Where's the blue sheet?
This one.
This, no, not this.
Shoot, I don't think I have a blue one.
Well, it's it used to be originally blue, but um, okay, you've got it.
You're not talking about this though.
This is the past.
No, no, no, that's.
Passport.
I want to talk about that because it's the last one.
You might have it, Steve.
Look for a blue sheet.
A blue sheet.
Well, it's not going to be there.
I brought it with me.
Oh, here it is.
Oh, there you go.
Here it is.
This is authentic.
Here you can see my j.
That's on his second last um.
You see, that's signed by the National Archives.
They did a special signature for me because they cheated online and said I didn't uh, sign certain numbers of them.
They, they see, you'll see their initialed even, LEE H, LEE H Oswald, 60 bucks.
Yep um, you see where it says j and it said it's supposed to say made 40, but the 40 has been kind of erased.
You see that yep yep, i'm verifying.
He was there for 40 hours when he wasn't, Okay.
Now somebody had to verify for me because I wasn't, the vice president himself had to verify for me.
He's former FBI agent and he did that.
Wow.
So now here's the thing.
What's interesting about this, you've got clock ins.
I just want to show you one more thing.
I want you to look at the five, look when he clocked in.
And now he was being good there.
On which one, left or right?
On the left, you see when he clocked in.
Yeah, he's clocking in around eight.
One day he clocked in at 9.37.
Yeah.
Often it was later than that.
And then he clocked out at six that day.
But there was no.
There's no clock out on any of those days.
Now, wait a minute.
Now, look at the clock out.
Yeah, no, it's right next door.
See where it says five o'clock?
Yeah.
Now, see, notice how even it is.
And then you say five o'clock, five o'clock, 501.
You see that?
Yes.
That's me clocking them out.
Yeah, but this says clock in, though, for lunch.
There's first clock in.
There's a first clock in on the very left for the morning.
Then there's a lunch out and a lunch in.
The out is like it has something typed.
It says female employees, half hour lunch.
And then it says in, 55550.
And one of them says no, that 501 is when they're clocking out.
It doesn't show the lunch in there.
Oh, okay.
Okay, got it.
It's under the lunch tab.
Notice how big it is on the one side, like you said 9.30 or whatever.
Yeah.
But on the other side, listen, I'm doing it 5 o'clock, 5 o'clock, 5 o'clock, maybe 5.01.
Because I am the secretary.
I could go and pull his card, bingo, put it in there in front of everybody.
Right.
And I want out of there at 5.
Yeah.
So I've got a whole bunch of them.
So 5, 5, 5, 5.30 or 5.30.
All of them.
Sure.
On the other side, it's like one time 7.32.
P.M. is when we had to clock him out because this is a long story.
So I'm saying this is so where was he during this?
Oh, he was doing all kinds of anti-Castro stuff, pretending to be pro-Castro.
Okay.
Infiltrating.
Infiltrating Anti-Castro Groups00:15:11
And he found out that the anti-Castro people were working with CIA and the FBI to kill Kennedy.
And he found out he found out that anti-Castro people plus?
You're talking about the Cuban exiles.
That's right.
Were working with who?
To kill Kennedy?
With the mafia, FBI, and CIA to kill Kennedy.
And they had money coming in from military industrial complex and big oil.
So it was a cartel, you might say, or cabal.
It was a group of them.
And the reason it worked is because they could point the finger at anybody and they said, point right back at you.
They made sure they involved so many agencies in so many ways that nobody could accuse anybody but Lee Oswald, who knew about them.
So he's the first murderer ever on television.
First person to be murdered on live television.
On live television.
Because it's so desperate.
Because once it got transferred out of public sight, he'd be able to contact the CIA and get out of it.
They would do something.
Let's take a quick break.
I've got to take a leak real quick, and we'll jump right back in.
We're back, people.
I thought I'd love to tell everybody about Lee's passport application here because I'll show you some of the inside stuff that people never noticed all these years until I pointed them out.
Now everybody, I say everybody, researchers know, but how they could have these things for 35 years, 45 years, and 50 years even.
And after 50 years, I had to point this out to them because they never saw it.
This passport document?
Yep.
Oh, they knew about the document.
They didn't look at it very closely.
Let's see.
Lee Harvey Oswald, P.O. Box 30061, New Orleans.
Okay.
L.A., October 18th, 1939?
That's when he was born.
Oh, that's when he was born.
Okay.
511.
All right, wait a minute.
I'm going to tell you about this, all right?
Okay.
See where it says 511?
Yep.
All the documents having to do with the U.S. government that he filled out, even Marines say 511, but he was only 5-9.
Really?
Yeah.
It's that way because these are short-gained.
No, they did that.
David Ferry is the same way.
He was 5'10, and it says that he's 5'11 on his.
We have other documents showing that they always had the wrong, they're always taller on their official documents when they're CIAs, at least all the files that were from 63.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Now, notice, please, I couldn't prove.
Oh, the passport was issued June 25th, 1963.
Well, when was it?
Actually it's.
Uh, when did he make the application?
When did he submit the application um?
Where am I looking?
Um october, is it?
No, that's not it.
Well, let me tell you.
It is on the document.
But, without wasting time, he submitted it september 10th.
No, get this.
This is june 25.
When he got it june of yeah, june 25th 63 he submitted this application on june 24.
Is it on here?
Yeah, yes, it's got to be.
Let me see.
It's got to be.
Look on the other shape.
Look on the black and white one here.
The black and white one?
That's the back of it.
This is the back of it.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'll point it out if.
Yeah, I can't find it.
You can probably find it.
Yeah, I'll have to show you.
Excuse me.
Here it is down here, June 23rd.
Down here is when it was applied, the application.
See?
June 23.
June 24, 1963.
Passport issued June 25, 1963.
Yeah, see?
One day.
24 hours.
They flew the man in.
Now, notice there are two different I couldn't prove this until we got it out in color.
It finally came out in color like 2018 or something.
Okay.
Wait a minute.
But notice, the color of the guy who signed it, Passport, says Arthur Young.
Hard to read the Young.
You see the Young?
His actual name was Charles Thomas.
That is kind of a joke.
There was the Arthur Young here is actually associated with Bell Helicopter and all that.
That is kind of a joke.
Now there's more.
Notice the colors, magenta ink.
See it?
Yeah.
Now Lee said to me, CIA tells me what my occupation is going to be.
Now notice the occupation, what ink color it's written in.
Red?
All right, it's the same magenta red as the signature of the guy, the customs officer.
Got it?
Got it.
Who filled it out, the occupation?
Was it Lee?
No.
No, it was actually, this guy is a CIA officer, okay, associated with customs.
Filled in photographer.
Photographer.
So Lee became a photographer according to CIA, okay?
That's his official, all right.
Now, he got this in one day, right?
He had to turn in a passport that was covered with Soviet stamps.
Bang, bang, bang, bang from the Soviet Union.
He didn't even try to make the handwriting look similar to Lee's.
No, he didn't care.
No!
Not at all.
Good observation.
All right, but there's more.
I want you to look on that black and white one to see where he intended to go.
This is a guy, a returned defector, supposedly hated the United States.
Yeah.
All right.
Look where he intends to go.
You see the list?
I'll point it out to you if you can't see it.
Yeah, I can see it on the right, but it's hard to read.
I'll read it for you.
Okay.
All right.
Not because I have good eyes, but because I have good memory.
Right.
All right.
So we're talking about it says at the top here.
Wow.
This is really hard to read.
You're right.
I'll start at the bottom here.
You've got.
All right.
You've got England, France, Germany, Holland, USSR, Poland.
Wait a minute.
Poland belongs to USSR.
Right.
And USSR.
This guy wants to go back to the USSR after turning in a passport full of stuff about the USSR.
He gets his passport in one day in the middle of the Cold War.
Does that sound normal?
No.
No.
Not at all.
Not at all.
Why did people?
Well, that was noticed, but what they didn't notice, it says here, it's hard to read on this, but Marina Prisikova is his wife.
It says, when did you marry?
But we have better, sorry, this is, the copy's not so good, but we have better copies.
It says, when did you marry her?
It says, he filled it out, April 31st, 1961.
There is no April 31st.
He put that on this passport application.
It's a lie.
There's only goes to April 30.
You think he did that on purpose or do you think he did that by mistake?
No, he did that on purpose.
I'll tell you why he did it.
Now, this may sound funny, but he said I could have put my name Santa Claus there and he still would have passed it.
It didn't matter what he put.
Now, I'm going to go further because they've taken this off the internet, but I do have the documents.
But when he left USSR, he had to get extra money because he didn't have enough money.
Right.
He was writing letters to them.
I remember he was writing lots of letters back and forth to, I think, Marina, actually, telling her that he didn't like it there and he needed help.
No, we're talking about he is married to Marina.
He is living in the USSR with her, and he's trying to get a loan from the US State Department.
I didn't think he was with her when he was there.
I thought she was still back in New Orleans.
No, no, he married her.
She's Russian.
She's a Russian.
He was forced to marry someone over there so he wouldn't get deported.
Oh.
So it's not a marriage made in heaven.
All right.
But he loved her good enough after, you know, he chose her as far as that goes.
Okay.
But it was.
Who was he writing letters to then and sending them back to?
His mother, Marguerite.
That's not Marina.
Don't get them mixed up.
It's easy to do.
Okay.
So, I mean, there are so many things I can tell you.
But here's the bottom line, and it's important.
He wants his baby to the United States or Little June.
He's not going to lose his baby no matter what.
That's a big embarrassment for.
And what happened, he told me the.
Eisenhower administration had him and when they transferred over to Kennedy, CIA hated Kennedy and they didn't give him a lot of information.
He lost a lot of his contacts because CIA did not follow up and then he wanted to go back to the United States.
He's worthless.
He can't contact anybody.
Right.
So he asked to go back.
So he goes, he takes risk his life without papers, went all the way to the U.S. Embassy.
If they had found it, checked him on the train all the way there, they could have executed him.
Right.
That's how much he wanted to get back to the United States.
Right.
And he wants his child.
And he's not going to give up.
Bobby Kennedy helped get him out.
There's a lot of stuff you guys don't know.
I've got the documents of so much of this stuff because I was able to pick up this stuff before because of certain names that they've lost track of important names and released stuff they shouldn't have.
And then we can make the links.
Okay.
And I knew the names and these guys have forgotten.
Like I say, one I've mentioned a lot, okay, is Raul Aparicio.
They released hundreds of pages on him because they didn't realize how important he was.
They forgot all about him.
All right.
It turns out to be very important to prove that Lee Oswald actually went to Mexico City.
All right.
Now, we're talking about Lee Oswald trying to get out of the Soviet Union.
He's got to have enough money to get his wife out and his child.
So he asked for a State Department loan.
In small print, it says you have to be a bona fide, a good citizen of the United States to get this loan.
So we had six page document one two three four five six pages.
Okay, and They were on the internet, but since I mentioned it they have scrubbed it.
Okay, but I've got the copies They're too precious for me to brought with me because I don't know you know, but they were in the National Archives a lot of this stuff has been filched So here we have six pages.
It says Oswald you make some application just like this passport application to fill out and It all goes well.
You know what he was on page five What did you do for your employer in the Soviet Union?
The entire page is blank.
They still get some money.
Nice.
It's completely blank.
Now, was he really pro-Soviet?
When we're in New Orleans, he's pretending to be pro-Castro.
We're not going to have a picture of a guy pretending to be pro-Castro with me who wants to go and kill Castro.
Are you kidding?
Right.
It's the last thing you're going to do.
Right.
All right.
But on the other hand, He's pretending to be pro Castro, and that's how it's so easy to frame him.
Yeah, he knew too much.
He knew inner workings.
You understand that everybody I worked with was murdered.
Murdered!
Except Ochsner, of course.
All right.
I sent you a picture.
You've got it.
Of Dr. Mary Sherman.
Yeah.
You notice that was Lee.
All right.
These are.
You just saw a witness.
These are witnesses I have.
They're on Taven Film.
She said I saw, she saw, I double dated with her and all that.
Find the photo of Mary Sherman, Steve.
I'm looking for it.
It's the carcass, okay?
The carcass with the arm missing.
Oh, you got her dead body on there?
Yeah.
No, I have it.
Oh, is that it?
No, that shows, unfortunately, that shows a guy who had cancer and then they gave him the, guess what, kind of shot and that's what happened.
Okay.
It's not, it's not.
He can't find it.
Okay.
Now that is when Dallas asked, when Dallas asked, was Oswald Mexico City?
We have something going on.
Lee Oswald and I are trying to get out of this whole system.
And Lee Oswald and I were going to get fake brand new passports, brand new IDs, and we're going to live in Mexico.
Now that part in Mexico, they knew about it.
Mexico City knew that.
So when Dallas is asking for pictures, was Oswald in Mexico.
They send this.
Of course, it's not him at all.
No.
Well, that's why they did that, because they don't want anybody to know that Lee Oswald actually was going to Mexico City.
Now, why did they send him there?
All right.
He's in Mexico City.
He's down there to drop off the bioweapon to a contact.
This is the story when he claims to be going down there so he could get to Cuba.
Well, actually, he never wanted to go to Cuba.
Exactly.
But that was the story.
That's the story, because that's how they framed him.
All right.
He only wants to try to look like he's getting into Cuba so CIA will be satisfied that when nobody showed up to pick up this.
Now, why was he the courier?
We developed such a relationship, but if he gets down there and then he changes his identity and he was working with people that were under Winscott.
Yes.
Winscott did not know a thing about what who was Winscott, for people that don't know?
Well, he was at Mexico City Station down there.
He was a big shot.
Yeah.
All right.
Now, unfortunately, he was working with James Jesus Angleton.
Right.
Lee Oswald was handled by Angleton.
And Angleton actually told Lee this when he came back from the Soviet Union.
He said, I don't trust you because you did not come back in a coffin.
Wow.
And Lisa said, you know how expendable I am?
Somebody's telling me that.
I've got to prove myself.
So one of the things that happened when nobody showed up to pick up this, they actually, we now know, they lured him there so they could say, look, he's there to consort with the Russians, consort with the Cubans.
He's actually trying to get a visa so he can get a transit visa just to the airport in Cuba where he has a backup contact that could pick it up.
Right.
And he's got to say that he's on his way to Soviet Union.
He can't see, he's on his way back to Mexico, because that's where we want to hide.
So he has to say somewhere else.
So he says Soviet Union.
He pretends he knew already his visa had been canceled by the Soviets weeks ago.
Okay, but he's telling them down there at the Cuban, at the uh, Mexico City desk well no, Mexico City Russian embassy right telling them, hey look uh, I don't whether my visa came through.
Get me rush visa.
You can do that.
They said, well, it's going to take 10 days.
You know what he said?
I don't have 10 days.
This is special case.
I only have three days now.
Why did he say that?
That's on record?
Because the bioweapon would be dead after three days.
Getting It to Cuba Quickly00:15:33
Okay, they said, are you out of your mind?
You've got 10 more days on your visa.
We probably can get you a visa by then.
Yeah, in fact it came through on his birthday, october 18th.
Okay, he was already back.
They ordered, ordered it back to Dallas by then.
Wow, So you've got it on record.
He's saying I only got three days.
It's because he was carrying the bioweapon and trying to get to Cuba.
That's right.
So he's got to try and get it to Cuba.
He's got to make the effort to make it look like he wants to go to Cuba.
Remember, he really doesn't.
By now, he's figured out, wait a minute, I'll bet they never wanted the Cubans to get this thing and they just got me down here.
So, okay, let's go back to when I asked you what Oswald's whole part was.
Well, I have one more quote to make.
Just one more.
Okay.
He goes again to the embassy.
When that doesn't go through, he tries to reach Raul Aparicio.
He runs into Teresa Proenza.
Proenza is saying, I, i'm a, you know, i'm sorry he's not there.
He had to go to the hospital and, by the way, Aparicio's office is bugged for that same day Leah's all showing up.
Cuban embassy is not the same as a Cuban consulate.
Cuban consulate is where he's trying to get the visa transit visa just to go through Cuba to drop this thing off with a contact and then on his way to Russia.
If he had has to show somewhere to go and he sure doesn't want to say he's going back to Mexico because that's where we're going to hide.
So he uses that because that's logical.
All right.
And Marina has already been approved to go to Russia, so he's got a point.
I want to go, you know, join my wife there.
Got it.
But that's not true.
What's really going on, you know?
Got it.
He had gotten Marina pregnant again to get an anchor baby so that he could divorce her and the baby would not be deported.
Because the baby, if Marina had, if they had divorced without that baby being born, the one in the United States, they would have deported Marina and the baby.
Out of the U.S.?
Out of the U.S., of course.
Because the so they wanted to have the baby here.
Yeah, so you have to have an anchor baby because they're going to get a divorce.
Otherwise, they're going to send her back because it's Cold War.
It's like Chinese today or something.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.
It's just too bad.
So let's go back to when you well, I just want to say this one thing.
Okay.
He tries again, the Soviet embassies, puts a gun down on the table.
He says, look what I have to carry.
And they take the bullets out right away.
They think he's nuts, you know.
You've got to get me this visa right away.
I know you can do it.
Later he will try.
And they're saying, what's the matter with this guy?
He said, that increases.
FBI is after me.
Why would he?
Because we were going to hide in Mexico.
and we would be working as pretending to be pro-Castro and our reason for hiding would be that the FBI was after us.
Therefore, we would be legitimate as, you know, working for the Castro and working for the communists, okay, when we're really going to be informants for the CIA.
That's what really was going on.
They don't want any of this stuff to come out.
In fact, the day that Lee crosses the border on his way to Mexico City, there was a plane that was supposed to pick me up.
Alexander Rourke and Jeffrey Sullivan were pilots.
They were shot down the same day.
Lee's crossing the border.
They were going to pick me up, and they shot him down.
That's on record.
They shot him down where?
Over Cuban waters.
Now, there's some.
Really?
Well, here's the thing.
If you look at the map, you'll see from Belize straight over to Eglint Air Force Base, where I was there.
And I've got all kinds of stuff.
So where were you when he was going down to Mexico City to go to that hospital?
I had my bags packed, and I was on my way to Eglint Air Force Base.
Okay.
where Jeffrey Sullivan and Alexander Rourke were going to pick me up, by the way, of all kinds of, yeah.
Okay.
And fly me to Mexico.
Got it.
To Cancun.
Cancun was all by itself.
I sent you something about Dr. Willis Andrews IV.
He had done an excavation in Cancun.
By the way, less than two years ago, 15 researchers and I went to Tulane and we got evidence.
Yes, indeed.
They excavated in July of 1963 there.
In August of 63, they had an exit. exhibit at Tulane University showing they left food, water, everything there because they and they were tending to go back.
They never did.
Lee and I were going to go there and they of course they got to say that Cancun wasn't there was nothing there at the time.
No, we've proven that everything was there and we got have the documents and everything.
We got the last written document from Tulane University.
It's in my book.
It's just so important because they were trying to say look nothing was there but a sandbar and you know you're lying and You know, you couldn't go to Cancun.
You got that mixed up because he said you're going to go to a fine hotel.
The fine hotel is a two-day walk away at Chichen Itza where I wanted to climb Chichen Itza and all that.
Where the Maya Land Hotel was built in 1939 where CIA often went for R&R.
All right.
And that's only a two-day walk away from where we were going to land in Cancun.
Wow.
They're trying to say the fine hotel I'm saying was that we were as if Cancun were a built-up city.
And obviously it's contra-temps.
No.
They're lying.
And of course, we have the documents showing now that they actually had coconuts there.
They had weeks of supplies.
They had a landing strip for CIA to use there.
Yeah.
I want to rewind a little bit and go back to when you, after you guys first met, you were doing, you were, you were, you were.
It took a while to get to trust me.
You were recruited by these people that were all working under Elton Oshner, including Mary Sherman and David Ferry.
And there was.
And we have new witness suing that David Ferry did meet.
His name is Rhett Acardo.
His father's orthopedic surgeon worked with Dr. Sherman, introduced David Ferry, okay, introduced David Ferry to Marion Sherman.
So we have all these connections or I wouldn't talk about them.
So at what point did you figure out that you, Mary Sherman, Alton Oshner, David Ferry, and Lee were all a part of this covert plan to take out Castro?
Well, what happened is that accidentally I was put on the covert side.
I was never supposed to be on the winning side because I came early and Lee and all of them thought I was because all the knowledge I had and speak Russian and had so, and mentioned I was going to work with Mary Sherman and they had asked for an assistant.
Um, and they it's, this need to know thing could really backfire because they didn't give enough information.
So I ended up being on the side that was winning.
Well, I really messed things up and when they were going to go and inject volunteer prisoners, uh that if if this worked, it would kill them.
When I objected, they kicked me out and sent me back.
But they had a problem, because if i'm just sent back and i'm not doing any more cancer research, people say what happened in New Orleans?
So they put me to very fancy, high-class peninsular chem research and I was doing I've got all the documents showing I did high-class research there because they've got to some way divorce me from cancer research but not make it, you know, so they put me in with NASA contracts and all that kind of thing.
Okay, so how long were you working with Mary Sherman and David Ferry in New Orleans on this cancer research?
At first, it would have nothing to do with me because we met where in public and she doesn't want to acknowledge.
I mean, I didn't realize how secret all that was at that point.
But about some days later, I'm taken and introduced to her by David Ferry and she apologized for not speaking to me at the party where she had to pick up tumors actually from David Ferry and it show up at this party and I'm there and she wouldn't speak to me and I was hurt.
I couldn't understand what was going on.
The book is, everything's explained in my book so you can see what really was going on.
Anyway, so Mary apologizes and then she said, look, by the way, this is the day that they conquered Mount Everest.
So I've got the dates because I remember all these dates, you know.
So it was the anniversary of the conquering of Mount.
Uh, conquering of Mount Everest, that's what they're talking about.
When I entered, when Mary introduced me David Ferry sitting out wow, David is here, and you know she apologized for not talking to me at that time said this, look, we've got big fish to fry here.
We've got a big problem.
You thought we were just trying to take out Castro, that this is very important to take him out because save the world from World War III boy, I was all for that.
He was aiming missiles at my family in Florida, what the heck you know.
And everybody and uh, I saw it like somebody today would say, hey, if you could take out Putin and it would look like just cancer and nobody would guess it was bioweapon, wouldn't you do it?
And save us from all this Ukraine stuff and all the dangers.
So I was given a song and dance, and all of us were really.
Oxner knew what he was doing.
That man, if you knew that he had advisors he was working with, they even stopped the Vietnam War from anna Chenault was good friends.
Her husband died in Oxnard's clinic, I mean, or he went there diagnosed with cancer and everything.
That she went to Oxnard before they went to the summit.
She's the one that called off the summit, and a Chennault did, that would have stopped the Vietnam War.
These people didn't, they wanted the Vietnam War to happen.
Oh, yeah.
Kennedy would not give it to them.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they also, the Joint Chiefs of Staff also had a plan to nuke China and Russia before Russia was able to get.
Their hands on ICBMs, which would have been in January of 1964.
See, you know these things.
So you understand that we felt an urgency.
You take out Castro and CIA is going to focus on taking Cuba because then they can do a revolution, you know, with Castro gone, get Cuba back.
And that means maybe they won't take out Kennedy.
Now, we weren't sure, but we thought that they would leave Kennedy alone because they'd have their little victory over Kennedy, you know.
We got Cuba back anyway, that kind of thing.
And that they would get more power over Kennedy.
But you know what?
They'd already made up their mind.
They didn't care what happened to Castro.
So Lee has been actually trained to head to keep this stuff alive.
We showed him how to do that.
You guys showed him how to keep these viruses alive, that's right.
And and travel with them.
Did you, did he travel with like a a little like ice pack thing?
No, because that would have been what it was.
We had a special.
It looks like just a regular lunch, a thermos.
Only the thermos has air air uh, vents and everything.
If you took, we had, I had a different kind of indicator.
Indicator tells you how much acid or base is.
As it gets more acid, you have to change the medium inside and put new.
He had one change.
He could make one change.
So he had basically two thermoses.
You can't carry three or four.
You know, you can't.
But if you looked at it, literally, you could put it in your mouth and gargle with it.
It tasted almost like chicken soup.
I'm saying that because the cancer cells are sticking.
This is a giant test tube, really.
It's all glass inside liner.
That's where the cancer was.
The fluid in between keeping them alive.
Only thing would be there would be like maybe some dead cancer cells or something.
Nothing alive.
So, I mean, you could literally, if you wanted to taste it, it tastes like weak chicken soup.
Who'd want it?
Like, well, like, no, it'd be like bone broth.
Yeah, it'd be like bone broth.
You'd never guess.
So, okay.
So, you guys taught him how to travel with this cancer thing.
Yeah, and how to change the fluid one time.
So, how to change the fluid to keep it alive.
That's right.
Because you only have three days.
Three days.
Yeah.
And how?
And what was it?
And it's got to get light.
It's got to get yummy.
It doesn't get any of that.
So, you guys packed him up with this stuff before he went down to Mexico.
That's right.
And.
The entire detail on how we did it is all in the book.
And I've got, you can see all kinds of documents and everything.
And what was his plan once he got to Cuba?
All right.
Well, no, originally he didn't want to go to Cuba.
Well, who was he going to give this to?
He was supposed to just go to a souvenir shop and sit it down and wait and make sure it got.
Nobody came.
Souvenir shop where?
In Mexico City.
In Mexico City?
Yeah.
The guy never showed up.
This is terrible.
It happens sometimes.
He could have been.
So he never actually wanted to go to Cuba?
No, not really.
Now, we can kind of prove that because he goes to get a visa, emergency transit visa.
Transit is a key.
That means he never didn't want to stay there.
All right.
All these things about I wanted to go to Cuba.
He wouldn't get a transit visa.
He'd just get a visa.
Transit visa means he just wants to go through.
He just wants to drop this stuff off.
Okay.
I mean, I've got so many explanations for what they think are crazy on his side.
All right.
But he wants to act kind of weird because he really doesn't want to go.
He knows darn well that if this guy didn't show up, his handler was supposed to tell him, you know, hey, everything's okay instead.
His handler took off, it turned out, six days earlier.
Lee was able to trace, that's how he actually traced the actual name of his handler because he was told he was Benson and Benton.
And then when he met with Antonio Vestiana of Operation 66, it's a yeah.
Yeah, all right.
Lee was there and Vestiana sees him and he says to david Attenly Phillips is standing there, but David Attenly Phillips had already told Lee that his name was Benson or Benson, okay?
Okay.
So Vinciana came early and he says, hola, you know, Senor Bishop.
Now we've got Benson, you've got Benson, you've got Bishop.
Lee really, we call him Mr. B because obviously Lee was so far down the list that he didn't even care about sorting out the right name to give him.
All that's important because when that plane they found out took off with this handler in it, whether you want to call him Mr. B, six days earlier, he checked all the plane schedules and realized, because he used to live in Fort Worth, that this there were only a couple planes, and the one of importance is this guy kept going to Fort Worth.
So he figured out it was David Attlee Phillips.
That was his real name.
Okay.
All right.
So he was supposed to take this vial in his thermos and drop it off in a souvenir shop.
Yes.
Well, this was in Mexico City.
Now, here's the thing.
He's got to make it look to the CIA that he really cares.
So he's got to at least make the effort.
But he doesn't want to really be sent there and stay or any of that because we've got plans that Mexico City knows about, but Dallas doesn't.
Because they don't communicate that well with each other.
No, you'll have all kinds of things going.
Winscott had so much stuff about Lee Oswald.
You have James Jesus Angleton.
And when he dies, he goes and steals everything out of Winscott's safe.
Oh, yes, he does.
Because he's got stuff there.
Winscott knew that Lee started at an affair with Sylvia Duran, not because he didn't love me or anything, but because he has to make himself look useful.
Because Lechuga, Was having an affair with Sylvia Duran and wanted to marry her.
Winscott Knew About the Affair00:08:23
And he's the former, he was ambassador just up until recently to the UN for Cuba.
That is very important to penetrate.
So Lee had this going on with Sylvia.
He seduced her in a matter of 24 hours.
He's an expert.
Wow.
Then taught in Atsugi how to seduce women.
Silver tongue, huh?
More than that.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
Puppy dog eyes and vulnerable and sweet and tender and.
Everything that you would ever dream of, he was taught all that.
Wow.
So who was supposed to pick up that thermos?
Did he know who or no?
He had a list of contacts.
He had their names memorized.
So when that didn't work and when he was afraid he couldn't get the visa in time, he actually went to the University of Mexico in Mexico City there and ran into some students who were associated with another medical contact.
He couldn't reach him either.
By the time he's invited into a party with Sylvia, he's off by himself with these.
College students.
They say, how did he know about us?
It's because the contact names he had, okay.
They couldn't figure out how he knew, since they were actually uh, pro Castro, right.
So what did he do with that thing when nobody picked it up?
Well, he's got a problem, he's got to leave it.
Uh, he can't take it back with him.
It's got rotten stuff in it right, and it's so.
He leaves it behind.
But he stops at the unit at the U.S Public Health Service right there at Laredo before he crossed the border.
It's on record although they've retracted it, we have the records right And apparently, he left a contact, told them somebody there, probably in some encryption or Something.
I don't know.
Because the two people working there didn't understand why he was there.
But he told me he left information where he left, that he left it there, you know, at the souvenir shop.
Now, at any point during any of this, did anybody like brief you on what you were doing?
Like anybody officially from.
I've had it since.
Twice I've been what they call depressed.
Been debriefed.
When was the first time that that happened?
Like, you just went to New Orleans on this assignment and then you met Lee.
Both times these guys were drunk, by the way.
Right, right.
So, you met Lee, you get into this secret program to develop this cancer stuff, but like these are just people you're meeting who are saying this shit.
How do they prove to you that you're doing this stuff?
Like, how do you, how does Lee or Mary or anyone else prove to you that you guys are actually doing research for the military to take out Castro?
First of all, first of all, we're having these animals die even by airborne, and that's really scary.
You have my, you have, so I'm finding out that all the marmosets have died, all of them died in a short period of time, and It's the same stuff.
I'm so familiar with it.
They have gone through gate.
We did the first gate of function.
This is all gate of function over and over again.
We're the first.
And I brought a document.
We don't have time to talk about it.
I understand that.
But what I'm trying to say is how did they prove to you that this was the objective?
Well, first of all, a whole lot of money went into this.
And big money, big bucks.
And this thing started March 23rd, 1962, a whole year before me.
And they had a linear particle accelerator.
That thing's worth a lot of money.
Did you ever see it?
No, but Lee was sent there all the time.
Really?
Yeah.
And so you guys were like in an apartment doing this stuff, right?
This was David Ferry's apartment, is that right?
Yes, but no, you have to understand, of course, I had access to other lab facilities, but that's where it spent all the time.
So basically, there was like the underground research being done in David Ferry's apartment.
He had like tons of these mice, these rats everywhere.
No, no, no.
Okay, look, we had this ring of labs.
The problem is that that ring was complete.
We were afraid they'd figure out about each other.
So they break that with Ferry.
All right.
All right.
And Mary Sherman is the nexus between that.
All right.
Now, all our reports, when they go to Mary, she goes straight to Oxford with it and all that.
So we're there.
And then we start this every Tuesday, the whole ring started over again and all that.
We don't have any way of any control over what they decide.
Like several times we had to kill 500 mice at a time to pull out these horrible noxious.
Now, what was Mary doing with these mice, taking them to the hospital and putting them under this $10 million particle accelerator?
Well, that happened too, but mostly we're working with actually the tumors themselves.
The live mice, yes, always, thousands of them, because all the time they were hoping to get something even more powerful.
They had this machine, you know, doing it and all that.
The bottom line for me was I had to go and assess that this stuff, please remember the word pancreas.
You're going to see so much pancreatic cancer now and brain cancer.
Those are the kind of cancers that we work with to develop this terrible virus with, okay?
And of course, we're seeing then they're going to do it on humans.
And that's when I realized how deep I'd gotten into something because I was told they had terminal disease.
It turned out they're perfectly healthy.
Who?
The prisoners that they brought in from Angola prison.
And I gave you a document showing it.
Dick Russell shows that they were, since 1960, they were using prisoners from Angola prison and doing stuff there with Heath was doing it.
And we have other names that are associated.
And how close did you get to this?
How close?
How close did you get to these prisoners that were being tested?
All right.
Remember I told you I had a blood test developed.
Whether or not you have cancer, it's running around your blood.
The idea is you're going to inject them, and if it's still there, we tag that with radioactive iodine.
So these injected cells, if they're within 72, they can multiply.
And every time you do that, the trace is going to get weaker by 50%.
Think about that.
Then 25%.
So you've got to get in there pretty soon.
On the other hand, you have to wait long enough to see if the human being is going to sift it out.
If they get rid of it, it doesn't work.
That's good news.
So I was willing to go along with that.
They were going to kick me out after this because this blood test, if it turned out that the person sifted out of their body, I could say, don't do it to anybody else.
It doesn't work.
See?
On the other hand, if it did, I could say, don't do it to anybody else because it works.
So I had to go up there and do the test just to stop it.
Just to stop it.
Right.
And when I did that, I learned I centrifuged everything down.
I did the test, and the radioactive material was still there, so it was going to kill them because it was multiplying and they couldn't get rid of it.
I knew they succeeded.
We have a biological weapon.
This thing was handed off to MD Anderson Hospital.
I have documents from that.
They don't like me to talk about that.
I get in trouble every time I mention it.
A lot of bad things have happened to me.
Okay.
So, and all of this.
Cancer research that you got will see it.
They froze it.
I actually helped create materials that they wanted so they could freeze it so that it would live almost forever.
Understand that cancer cells in a line, unless it's one of these what they call immortals, they're after 28, 30 or whatever, they're going to divide it.
They won't do it anymore.
They're going to die off.
So they put it in the freezer.
Then you can multiply tons of it, you know, anytime you want at that level.
Isn't it true that Mary was also trying to develop some sort of cancer vaccine?
Well, that's how it began.
That's how it began.
Oh, that was before all of this.
Yes.
And then they realized that they had something that could help the country avoid World War III.
It was sold to them.
So at some point it got co opted.
It did.
Well, I don't know why people don't think it.
And we didn't either.
Because back then we trusted our government, we trusted CIA, we trusted FBI.
They were on our side.
Putting It in the Freezer00:14:48
It turns out they were not on Kennedy's side.
He wanted to smash the CIA at 100 pieces, 1,000 pieces.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they wanted to get rid of him.
And so, okay, let's go to the end of this whole story and how Lee ended up on that route on November 22nd.
Okay, so he calls me.
Here's the thing.
Actually, I called him because and real quick, sorry to interrupt.
Yeah.
But from all the stuff that I've learned about what actually happened on November 22nd and everything, because as far as I'm aware, correct me if I'm wrong, but there was an active FBI file and CIA file on Lee at that time.
They were tracking everywhere he went.
There was a CIA person at every desk that he was going to in Dallas, Mexico City, New Orleans.
And there was what's called a flash on his FBI file, right?
So he was like, Well, that was removed, you know, before the assassination.
Right.
So that's what I was getting to.
Yeah.
Is everywhere he went, he was very high on the FBI's list of people who were.
Yeah, Kennedy was trying to.
Who sent, like, it was a red flag.
If he was anywhere, like, they know where the hell he's going.
But that's not what they told the people.
They said, we didn't know a thing about what he was doing.
You remember that?
Right, right, right.
I'm trying to explain it for the audience.
So the day before Kennedy was assassinated, that high level flash warning that was on his FBI profile was removed.
Absolutely.
And because if it was on there, him being on that route on November 22nd, 1963, was the equivalent of a flea being at a Lysol convention.
Yeah.
That's right.
Because there's no way in hell you would let a guy like that be anywhere near that.
That's right.
That thing.
So the fact that his FBI flash stop thing was removed the day before is a massive red flag that there was some sort of something sinister going on because they wanted him to be there.
Yeah, but they wanted to make sure he could be blamed.
And I think they can't blame him if they've got him on flash.
Right.
And when I had John Newman in here, he said that he went and interviewed one of the ladies who signed off on that flash stop.
That was working for the CNA.
Her name was Jane Roman.
Oh, Roman, yes.
And he went and interviewed her before she died.
And he says, What does this mean?
And he said that she kind of smiled at him and said, It's indicative of a need to know on the highest level that was above my head.
And basically, however she said it to him was basically like, Something sketchy happened here.
And she basically admitted that, you know.
I don't think the CIA was very happy with her after that meeting with John.
Well, there's nothing else she could say.
Right.
That too much stuff had come out.
Right.
There are many, many files out there that they don't know exist because they thought they got destroyed.
Some good people didn't want them destroyed.
Yeah.
We've got the Clinton Jackson incident you never hear of.
That's when I said I went up there at one time with Lee.
But before that, Lee Oswald, David Ferry, and Clay Shaw and Garrison grabbed that.
They went up there originally to get these people injected.
Clay Shaw was there with the bribery money.
Okay.
And that worked very well because these people are not going to do this for nothing.
All right.
There's danger involved.
And Lee Oswald is observing because nothing could be written down.
Now, we had a lot of stuff written down, but not the stuff that was important, you know.
And so he is observing.
So the idea is whoever picked up that in Mexico City, they would have had another meeting.
He would have orally told them how to handle it and all that before he heads off to Cuba.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So at what point?
And then David Ferry was there to do injections because there wasn't anybody that wanted to take that responsibility.
Now they're sitting there for hours.
People are going, why?
They think, well, we have to get Lee Oswald, you know, to register to vote.
Well, the car could have dropped him off and left.
They couldn't because they had to go and wait for a phone call at the pay.
There was only pay phone in town.
They had to sit there and they didn't know the day before Martin Luther King had to have a dream speech.
This little sleepy town in Clinton has a town hall there, you know, the Perry seat.
All these people are lined up to vote and they're stuck there because they're waiting for a phone call.
It took the phone call.
They waited three hours for a phone call.
Right.
They can't leave.
And anybody knows if it's just to drop Lee off because that was the excuse to register to vote so he could somehow work at an insane asylum so then they can claim he's insane.
All the crazy things they've got that are not true.
But of course, Lee gets out of the car because everybody's staring and stands in line because he ran into a woman and she had actually an AA degree.
You know, and she's black, and they said she failed her literacy test and couldn't read the Constitution.
It was a put in front of her face.
She was crying.
She had stood in line.
They said, that doesn't, I'm going to stand in line.
I'll bet I can just flash my stuff and say, yeah.
Explain that story real quick.
So Lee, David Ferry, and Guy Bannister, they were there.
No, not Guy Bannister.
I thought Guy Bannister was there.
I thought he was driving the car.
That is a lie.
It's Clay Shaw, and we have the documents saying that he put out.
Oh, it was Clay Shaw.
That's why Garrison went after him.
Okay.
All right.
I must have got the names mixed up.
No, they put the inserted guy, Venister, later in the story.
Oh, they did?
Yeah.
Oh.
But that's a lie.
We have all the documents.
And in fact, I gave you a D-Don there.
And for people, just so people can follow, who was Clay Shaw again?
Give just like a.
Clay Shaw was the director of the under director of the international trademark.
And he was the rich, the independently wealthy businessman who.
Well, he's mainly pretty wealthy, but the point is that he had all the contacts with CIA and they tried to.
He was the only guy that was brought in on the.
They could because he really wanted to go after Oxner, and Oxner is so popular he didn't dare, but he started there because Oxner.
Right.
I gave you a picture showing Oxner and Clay Shaw together.
And the reason that.
I did that is because they even claimed that they didn't know each other.
When International House, you saw that where they're the ones that range for Kennedy, okay?
International House was run for nine and a half years.
Clay Shaw was there with Oxnard.
And Clay Shaw's the only one who was brought into the trial by Jim Garrison, right?
Because he had enough contacts, obviously, with the CIA and the bad guys, yeah.
Wow.
And I met him twice.
I met him twice.
Really?
Yeah.
I've met most of these people.
Why did they want to bring.
Lee, what was the town again?
Clinton's?
This is Clinton.
Why did they want to bring him there to register to vote?
Well, they didn't.
That's the lie.
He only got out of the car to stand in line so he would be stared at while he's in the car.
So he said, I'll do that because this girl came by and said they refused her.
He said, I'll bet I can register and I don't even belong to this.
Why were they doing that?
What was the reason?
What?
Why did they go there?
Again, they had arranged before knowing about the Martin Luther King thing that I had a dream there.
It was a sleepy because a convoy was coming up from Angola Prison with these prisoners.
Okay.
And they want to join the convoy with all their injections and all the stuff they've got.
And they have to have a fancy car.
Clay Shaw is driving the fancy car.
He's got the money, but he's going to join the convoy.
You've got a fishing car in the back.
You've got a, I don't know what they had, but you've got a Cadillac, black Cadillac, all going in together.
But you can't go in by yourself.
They're going to ask for credentials.
So go in.
They have to wait for the phone call.
There's a long road before you can be seen, you know, turning into Jackson.
To go to the mental hospital.
They're going to meet them there.
Well, they can't sit there on the road there.
People would notice, I mean, on the big highway.
Right.
But they could sit by the phone booth and wait for the phone call, you know, exactly, get the timing right, because we're only talking about 20 miles, you know, to join them.
And they delayed and delayed and delayed.
I don't know, because you see, they're only supposed to use one prisoner and they added more for sure.
Wow.
Okay.
I see.
So they had some red tape.
I understand.
Well, they tried to hide all this and say that they were just waiting for him to vote.
They could have.
Gone to a coffee shop around the corner.
Wouldn't that sit there and there?
So we had 15 people.
I told you about them, we went out and they found all these things and worked with me.
We went to Clinton and I said that phone booth is right there on Liberty Street.
Maybe we can still find evidence that was there, because it was the only one in town that was a public phone booth.
You know where you could park a car and wait, right there.
Sure enough, we found it.
We found the wiring, we found the wood parts and even where it was painted and everything it was gone.
But all the wiring was there and everything, just like exactly where I said it was.
Wow.
Because we had, I have a map of it.
I even knew where the thing was located.
You know, because Lee.
At what point did Lee find out about this plan to kill the president?
They knew at least by March.
There is a famous photo.
It's called The Wink.
And you'll see Albert Thomas is winking at Lyndon Johnson in the plane right after Lyndon Johnson is sworn in.
He's grinning.
He's winking.
Albert Thomas in March of 1963 had Kennedy invited to Texas because he was going to retire.
This is in Houston.
Albert Thomas gets on the plane after the celebrate, you know, dinner where he's resigning and all that.
Now get this.
He's friends with Linda Johnson.
Sure.
You can imagine him going, Albert Thomas going, there's the wink.
You can imagine Albert Thomas getting on the plane maybe from Houston just to Fort Worth, okay?
Because they're friends.
But he spends the night there and more.
He's there to Dallas as well.
I mean, why?
Elder Thomas is still on the plane.
When Kennedy's shot, he's on the plane and he's taking off and they're going to go to Washington, D.C. Right.
Wait a minute.
How many people do you know that you're going to meet in some certain city?
You're going to their dinner and then they get on your plane with you and then they follow you.
Where's his suitcase or whatever?
He spends two years up there before he's, they said he was going to die.
And you've got that wink.
He's the one that set up to get Kennedy on this route to go to Texas.
That's why the wink.
That was March of 1963.
Okay.
Now, those who were following that, Ochsner knew everywhere where everybody's going.
He was very close friends with Mary Sherman.
Yep.
Yeah.
So they found out.
So Mary and Lee found out through Ochsner.
I should think.
Somehow through Ochsner.
Well, Ochsner being so.
He would take Mary.
Did Lee tell you how he learned about this specifically?
Did he give you any specifics?
No.
The meeting I had was between.
David Ferry and Mary Sherman is that when they told me that they knew of these things and that that I had to trust them just like they had to trust me with this kind of information, you know, okay, because they needed my expertise because look, this looks shady to me.
The party that Dave Ferry invited me to is full homosexuals and and people are screaming there.
They wanted to kill Kennedy and all this.
They're all anti-Castro people.
And yes, David Ferry is picking up all kinds of information about him because they want to kill Kennedy.
So he's kept, you see what I'm saying?
And I said, this is crazy.
I don't want to have any, these people want to kill Kennedy.
So Lee had to take me to Guy Bannister.
They said, I've got documents I showed you for that.
Lee took you to Guy Bannister.
That's right.
Okay.
When was this?
That was right after this horrible party where I said, look, I'm not going to have anything to do with this.
Are you crazy?
You're saying you want to kill Kennedy.
David Ferry said that out loud.
And he said to me, Dave said, you know, at this meeting with Dave later, he said, what am I going to do?
Am I going to say hail to the chief in front of people who want to kill Kennedy?
Or am I going to say I'm going along with this?
I'm going to go along with this so I get more information, for God's sakes.
Now, wait.
David Ferry at Bay of Pigs in July, okay, 1961, when the Bay of Pigs happened.
Right.
He hated Kennedy Scott.
He put it to me this way.
Now, remember, David Ferry desperately tried to get me to be Catholic again.
He was going to be priest.
When I became an atheist and I was going to be a nun, that's how he got so close.
He did everything in his power to get me to be a nun.
Yeah, he desperately wanted to be like a church father, didn't he?
Oh, gosh.
He wanted to be only a seminarian.
He just wanted to be serve God.
That's all he wanted to do.
But he kept getting denied because of his history with boys.
No, not at all.
Oh, that's what the official version is not true.
What happened is that they were him in these seminaries.
And finally, he believed that that's what God made him.
Wow.
Yeah, it was horrible.
Jesus.
I've got a whole book on David Ferry.
Now, how can I write a book about him unless I knew him that well?
All right.
It's over 350 pages.
Wow.
All right.
Okay, so he said, he's hanging out with all these anti-Kennedy people.
What happened is that he really hated Kennedy when he heard that Kennedy was responsible for the Bay of Pigs.
That was the official story.
And he, there's this retired, this is where he started to really hate Kennedy.
It's worse.
He was such a wonderful speaker.
He was given the opportunity to have the keynote speaker for a whole bunch of retired military officers.
Okay.
Now, I was also sponsored by military officers.
That's how I got, learned Russian and all that.
So, I mean, I understood.
So they had him for keynote speaker.
He got up there and said, you know, I thought a great deal of Kennedy, and now I know what he's like.
Because at the Bay of Pigs, he lost two of the pilots he had sexual relationships with.
They had been training.
Okay.
And so he thought it was Kennedy's fault.
So he stands up there to these retired military officers, 61, and he says, somebody should have come up from behind a bush and shoot that bastard, you know, in his open car.
And they made him get off the stage, about 150 of them.
Well, he's hiding behind the curtains until everybody leaves.
And you know what?
After the meeting was over, 15, he said. of about 10% of them came behind the curtain and said, we feel like you do.
Jack Ruby Contacted for Info00:15:40
We want to kill that SOB too.
You want to help us?
That's how come David Ferry was able to get information from these people because he worked as a courier for them for three and a half weeks.
It doesn't sound like very long, but they all trusted him by then.
Then he lost his job with Eastern Airlines.
That helped because they still trusted him.
But anyway, he knew all these contacts.
And Barry Sherman is from Chicago.
Okay.
Jack Ruby's from Chicago, and I gave you information showing you that they murdered Jack Ruby in Parkland Hospital.
That's in my book, and you'll see it.
They fried him alive with over 500 x-rays in just 22 days.
It's enough to make you sick.
Again, I've given you the book.
The National Archives called me, and I personally got those records before anybody else in the world, because they were mad that online people had taken my documents and altered them.
And so they gave me the original documents.
I told you they fried him alive.
But wasn't there a story?
And I gave you this thing showing you Al Maddox.
I showed you I had contact with him.
I had a phone number and everything.
I showed you that.
Al Maddox was his jailer.
He told him I got injected with cancer cells.
He was one of the mafia people who sent us, sent money.
Mafia, the anti-Castro Cubans, this whole group sent money from different directions so you couldn't tell where it was coming from.
Right.
So, Jack Ruby, he was being also visited by a guy by the name of Jolly and West.
Jolly and West.
They call him Jolly for short.
Right.
All right.
That was an MKUltra guy from CIA.
Yes.
He said, after I've had somebody in my hands for two weeks, they won't know their own name.
Right.
And this was before he shot Oswald, though, right?
No, he was in jail.
All right.
He was in jail and they brought him in because he was going to tell.
So, Jolly West started visiting.
Jolly West never visited Jack Ruby until after he shot Oswald.
That's right.
He was in jail.
He was a prisoner there, and then he had given full access to poor Jack Ruby, okay, to do whatever he wanted.
And he messed him up so much, Jack was sticking his finger up in the socket to try and electrocute himself, you know, and everything.
Wow.
That way, you're going to tell somebody you got injected with cancer cells, nobody's going to believe you.
And he did that.
He injected with cancer cells a few weeks later.
He is so sick that they put him in jail.
Jolly West did this?
Yes.
Of course.
So why would he try to they were going to have another trial on Jack Ruby the day, the very day he was supposed to be transferred to another city to start a second trial, but they don't want that.
Right.
That's the day he enters Parkland Hospital.
Okay.
He gets 42 x-rays in one day.
Even on Christmas Day and Christmas Eve, he got x-rays.
He got an x-ray that's not even on the record, two of them, on the 27th of December.
And he could even sit up in bed by that time.
He was so sick, they wheeled out a portable x-ray machine to x-ray him at his bedside.
Good Lord.
How did they get him to shoot Oswald in the first place?
He was forced.
He cared about Lee.
I met him.
He liked Lee.
He had known him since he was a kid.
Ruby?
Yes.
I've got, let me explain something.
I had no idea this stuff.
Well, I say, you read my book and you're going to see I've got all the background for this.
It's not made up or anything.
Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald's uncle's dudes, Mirette, was a bookkeeper for Carlos Macello, The Godfather.
Ruby comes to New Orleans all the time to report because Godfather took over Dallas from Joe Savello, who was running it from Sam Giancona.
So Jack Ruby is working.
Savella and Jack Ruby owned the Carousel club together.
He's not a nightclub owner, he's a half owner of a mafia run uh Carousel place, you know yeah, wow.
So who forced him to shoot him?
Well basically, everybody did as they said, and here's why he knew too much Lee.
I mean, this guy knew uh Lee, Oswald and he, he knew about the project and on top of that he had gotten.
Well frankly, I still believe that he, I believe he did not want to kill Kennedy.
And somehow they figured that out.
And they knew he knew enough that he could talk.
So they made him.
They kidnapped one of his dogs.
By the way, the dog that's in the car there is not his favorite dog.
Who are we talking about right now?
Jack Ruby.
Jack Ruby, okay.
Yeah.
And anyway, Dave Ferry, very close to him.
And in fact, I met Jack Ruby for the first time in David Ferry's apartment.
All right.
I've got a long story about what happened there.
It's so complex, but it's all there.
Okay.
It all fits.
And I have witnesses.
Remember, I've got witnesses that for all along the way about David Ferry knew Mary Sherman, which they tried to say it didn't happen.
And I've got so much information on David Ferry that nobody had that now they have found.
So one way you prove who you are is you put out information out there that nobody had before.
And then they look for it and they find it.
And I've got it.
Okay.
Because I knew these names.
But here we've got a problem.
David Ferry.
Jack Ruby, that's okay knowing each other and all that.
They, of course, murdered so many of these people.
And how they did it with David Ferry, I wish I had enough time to explain everything to you.
There is this huge, the reason we haven't been able to solve this is because it is complex.
If it were simple, we wouldn't have this problem.
Of course.
And then they can do things like say Jackie shot her own husband and they put all this stuff obfuscated.
But the last thing you're going to hear about is the name of Judith Ferry Baker.
Right.
So, okay, let's go back to when Kennedy was assassinated.
And you were saying that.
Lee contacted me only 37 hours before.
Right.
But we were explaining how David Ferry decided that after the.
What was the name of the operation that was going over there to.
It was the Bay of Pigs failed.
Oh, okay.
And a bunch of his guys, his lover boys, got murdered during that.
Yeah, two of them.
And he decided he now hated Kennedy.
And then how did that transition to Lee knowing that he was involved in all of this?
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I apologize.
And thank you for putting me back on track.
There are so many things in my head going on.
It's tons of stuff.
Okay.
And I don't forget anything.
So I see these things, pictures, and that kind of disturbs me as well.
You know?
Right.
See it all.
Yeah.
All right.
So imagine he's got this information, and you've got Mary Sherman has all these contacts with people at University of Chicago.
And Lee finds out that there's a plot in Chicago, and he manages to contact the FBI.
We have Abraham Bolden, the Secret Service.
We have James Douglas, and we have reports that somebody named Lee is the one that informed them, and he broke up.
A plot to kill Kennedy in Chicago.
Now they've got to do something with Lee Oswald.
Lee broke it up?
That's right.
We've got it on record.
Well, the name is Lee.
And the informants, and I'm telling you, everybody really knows that was Lee.
Didn't they also try to kill him here in Tampa?
Yes, but Lee, no, I don't know about Tampa, but I do know about Miami that Lee also there, Miltier, Joseph Miltier there said, well, we're going to get him.
He's on video, not video, but he is on audio saying, we're going to.
Kill him with a high powered rifle here from a high building, office building, either here or Dallas.
Or for, you know.
Who was on audio saying that?
Joseph Miltier, M I L T T. Joseph Miltier.
Yeah, and we have an FBI agent that was assigned to that, but they made sure he couldn't go anywhere.
But at any rate, Lee also was involved with that.
And so Jack Kennedy came in by helicopter.
Oh, wow.
That's why.
So.
They found out that Lee was trying to save Kennedy from these assassinations because he was notifying the FBI about it.
And Lee, well, yeah, that he tried.
And how is he finding this stuff out?
Again, Lee Oswald is pretending to be pro Castro and he's learning all kinds of information.
Castro doesn't want to be blamed for Kennedy's, you could take their means.
And so he's trying to find out information who wants to kill Kennedy.
He's got all these different sources.
They've got to get rid of this guy.
Got it.
Okay.
Wow.
And was he talking to you about all this stuff during the time?
Or did you learn all this later?
Oh, no, no, no.
All along, remember, we wanted to live together and all that, and they forced him to go back to Dallas.
They promised he could go back to Mexico when they found out that's what he really wanted to do after Christmas.
First, they said before Christmas, and they cheated after.
And that's why he gets a temporary job at the Texas School Book Depository.
Always before, wherever he went with Marina, I mean, he had several jobs.
She was always living.
That's not the way it was in the end.
They even call him his estranged wife.
He goes to visit them on weekends, you know, and all that.
But he's still living in just a little tiny place.
And he takes a temporary job.
He had offers for permanent jobs, and he turned them down because, of course, he only thought he was going to be going back at Christmas.
Texas School Book Depository, that was a setup.
They fired two people the day they hired him.
The book depository in September, passes, sends these books all over Texas, school books, all right?
That's when they need personnel.
By October, and we're talking about October 10th and 15th, he starts work.
They don't have any more orders, hardly.
You see what I mean?
But they hire him anyway.
Now they've got three order takers at the school book deposit.
And of course, it's really a cover job, and he's gone a lot.
So how did he not know?
There's another cop.
How did he not know they were going to try to whack him in Dallas?
Wait a minute.
Well, there's so much in it.
There's so much background information I have not been able to give to you because we haven't had time.
There never is enough time, really.
I told you it took 18 hours for me to explain all of this to Nigel Turner.
Wow.
And they put that into a 46-minute thing called the love affair.
And they took all my evidence out.
They took all my witnesses out, and they showed pictures of my family up close.
And they got in trouble, and my family has had almost nothing to do with me since one of my sons has spoken to me since 1999.
Wow.
I've endangered my family, and I got denounced by one of my sons recently, just a couple days ago.
It's been really hard.
saying, you know, you've destroyed, you don't care if you destroy our family, you don't care what happens to us.
All you care about is, you know, your fame.
It's never been about fame.
It's because I love Lee Oswald.
Don't you know I've been approached.
They said, look, you heard me get a movie off when I was sitting here.
I get them all the time.
You heard the thing.
Did you hear what I was saying?
Kind of.
Yeah, I was kind of listening.
Yeah, right.
I mean, you can tell stuff is going on.
It's always been that way.
But the trouble is, is I have not wanted to seek any of that.
I was offered.
Millions.
You know how?
It was a deal.
They wanted to make a big story saying how we had our love affair and all that, but he lied to me and he went on to kill Kennedy.
And what a pitiful thing I am because I've been trying to prove his innocence.
And I would be rich if I just go along with that.
Turn them down, of course.
So, how did Lee.
If he knew about the attempts on him in Chicago and in Miami, how did he not know about the attempt on the, how did he not know previous to the attempt in Dallas?
He did.
He did.
He joined an abort team.
An abort team.
Yes.
And we have the record from Jim Mars and it's his book Crossfire, which he altered to add my testimony.
All right.
Because Tush Plumley, there was an abort team trying to follow along.
Now they can't go and just knock guns out of people's hands because then they can't be used again, right?
But they would stand in a line of fire or they'd do a distraction or something so they couldn't fire.
Can you explain what is an abort team?
The abort team, and this followed Kennedy around a lot, and maybe they're doing it all the time.
I don't know, you know.
But the whole idea is to make sure you look where people might be shooting and you make sure you're standing in the line of fire, or if you see something that's suspicious, you make a distraction so that they can't shoot or they'll be noticed if they shoot.
Oh, wow.
Directly or you're no good anymore right, it can't use you again.
You see what I mean yeah yeah, you can't just stay, go and arrest them or something.
But what you can do is collect information about who they are and everything and and that they show up more than one time you know, and they're, they've got guns and all that.
You would not believe how many people that they were tracing and tracking what they did.
So CIA did this, FBI did this together.
They put so many threats out there that they couldn't cover them all.
They were an exhausted team that reached Dallas late, So it was Lee.
Lee was part of that.
Did Lee talk to you about this team?
Absolutely.
I've said I talked to him 37 and a half hours before the assassination.
He told me how he had can you walk me through that conversation?
Yes.
Well, a lot of it I can.
It's an hour and a half long, and I have never divulged all of it because a lot of it was very personal.
But it gets to me viscerally, you understand?
Because he told me they were going to kill him.
He knew.
Yeah.
But he was in a spot if he fled.
He said they would kill me, they would kill his babies, they'd kill his wife.
Same thing for Jack Ruby.
He was threatened.
David Ferry told me because it went around because Jack Ruby was so very close to the mafia.
And what they knew, what they understood, is that the way it was directed to Jack Ruby, and this was through the, his name is Currington, and he was with Howard Hunt, the Hunt that is, not Howard Hunt.
The Howard Hunt?
The Hunt that is the multimillionaire in Dallas.
All right.
And Hunt had Currington find out how much protection Lee Oswald had, and then he made sure.
That uh, Jack Ruby was contacted, or else, and and the inside information is this, because people cared, they said they would cut every protruding part of his body off, they would kill his family, they would torture his dogs to death and so on and they would get somebody else to do it if he didn't anyway, this is the guy, Haraldson Cunt Currington, c-u-r-r-i-n-t-o-n.
Hurrington Currington, Currington HUNT.
Oh no, this is the hunt, The millionaire hunt.
Yeah, the millionaire hunt.
Currington is his name.
Vic Currington.
No, Surrick.
Oh, that's his secretary.
Trying to Put Him on Second Floor00:05:40
Okay, gotcha.
He's the one that was sent.
He went up and down the elevator with Lee Oswald, who was with Jim LaVeille at the time, a detective, had no protection.
He said, easy peasy, easy, go and shoot him.
You make sure Ruby does it because we've got to get Ruby out of this, too.
He knows too much because he knew about us.
All right.
So that conversation you had with Lee 36 hours before he 37.
37 hours before the president died, he said that they told me I have to be a part of this protection team for the president.
No, no, he joined.
Oh, he joined.
He said he joined it.
He found a way to join.
And why did he want to join it?
He pretended, just like Jack Rupp, everybody pretended since they wanted to kill Kennedy.
That's the only way you're going to get information.
All right.
Yeah.
Like David Ferry told me clearly, he said, when he found out who was really in charge, he said, this, that was my Catholic brother.
I voted for him, you know.
I with Irish, both have Irish blood.
He said, when I found out what they had done to Kennedy, he said, I became I stayed in contact with him.
They think I hate JFK, but I'm there to try and save his life.
Okay.
Sorry.
Explain to me again.
I'm having I'm just having a little bit trouble following this part.
Okay.
So he wanted to join the protection team for the president on the route in Dallas.
Nestle Oswald, yes.
Oswald did, right.
And then he simultaneously said that I know they're going to kill me.
Yeah.
Who was going to kill him and why?
Because he had to stay in a Texas school book depository, not leave and get out of there or something like that.
He knew a team was going to come in there, at least somebody would come in there to shoot.
And he's supposed to let them in.
He's going to make sure that they can get in, you know, that kind of thing.
Now, Lee had access, you know, to at least all the floors as a, order taker, you know, except the sixth floor.
I know he could go up the fifth floor.
The shooter was, one shooter was situated there.
We know that Bird bought the place just a few months earlier.
Bird was good friends with LVJ.
They called him Drywell Bird or something like that.
B-Y-R-D.
He owned that and they were refurbishing it.
The so-called Sniper's Nest was never built by Lee Oswald.
That is a lie.
The people working there put that up so they could hide behind it and take a smoke and take a break, you know.
And they tried to say that's where the shots came from.
But Bird takes a window jam out from a different window at the other end of the building.
They say, you took the wrong one.
So then eventually you take the other one.
They block that off.
So you can't really try to make the shot yourself.
But get this.
When FBI tried to do it, they had to move the boxes because the rifle butt would hit the wall.
And it would hit a pipe that was there.
Jim Mars checked on that.
And a couple others did too.
And they found out that that there's no way you could put the rifle to make the shot because it would hit this pipe.
So the Texas School Book Depository moved the pipe up 18 inches.
They moved all the boxes.
They still couldn't make the shot.
So it's in my book and it's in the Warren Commission's 26 volumes.
They realized you can't make the shot from there to show that you could make it.
So they built a tower outside right on the street, 30 feet lower than the fifth story window.
And from that tower in the middle of the street, 30 feet lower.
That's how they proved that Lee Oswald could shoot from that window straight at, but that target wasn't moving, a stationary target.
And eventually they could get people to say they got, you know, made to shot.
They're world experts.
So where was he the moment that Kennedy was shot?
Where was Lee?
Lee was on the first floor.
He was on the first floor.
Yeah, and we have pretty good evidence of that.
What they didn't know is they tried to put him on the second floor.
That's where the whites ate their lunch.
Lee Oswald, remember I told you he got arrested in New Orleans?
on the 9th and everything, and it was embarrassing to his family and everything.
Well, at that time, when he had to go, that was on August 9th.
Okay, on Monday, the next Monday, he has to go in and pay a $10 fine, which is like $100 today.
He sits on the black side with the blacks.
When we rode on the buses, we sat in the back of the bus with the blacks.
We were so pro-civil rights.
Lee Oswald wasn't eating lunches ever.
They didn't know this with the whites on the second floor.
He was always eating with the blacks on the first floor.
They've got to get him on the second floor because there's no way they know that if he was supposedly on the first floor where, by the way, he mentioned two blacks he saw that were in there, said, yeah, I was with so-and-so.
They saw me eating, you know, lunch there.
And he's drinking Dr. Pepper.
His favorite drink, Dr. Pepper, not Coca-Cola.
Coca-Cola machine was on the second floor.
Dr. Pepper machine is on the first floor.
Yeah.
So anyway, there are lots of stuff like that going on.
So they'd have to change it that he's on the second floor, even though he never ate up there.
There's so many things.
A lot of it's in the, most of it's in the book.
Now, I had to put it in the book because it's something that happened to me anytime.
Sounds Nuts at Face Value00:11:53
I've been hit by cars three times.
I almost lost my left eye.
I've had all my teeth knocked out in the front.
How did all this happen?
Cut, brake, line.
What?
Oh, yeah, it's on record.
When?
Well, that happened in Orlando, Florida.
Get this.
I get my car to go to teach.
And I go on the track, pump, there's no brake, bam, I get T-boned, okay?
Wow.
Well, it's on this side, but this side's okay.
I can still use it.
I'm desperate because I've already had bad things happen.
And I've already been hit.
All right, it's a long story, but I was just recovering.
I didn't want to lose my job.
So I got balled out.
Now, I was a mother of three sons.
I helped them rebuild their car engines.
This guy's saying, stupid woman, you know, your master cylinder is empty.
Right.
I said, no, that's impossible.
I know how to fill a master cylinder with fluid.
Oh, wow.
Well, of course I do.
I can rebuild engines.
I don't even know how to do that.
I know how to build a rocket engine.
I really admire Elon Musk.
I know what hell he's been through.
All right.
But at any rate, bad things happen to good people, I'll tell you.
At any rate, so he says, he filled it up.
Now, next morning, now when they towed it, they just towed it half a block because the place was right there.
So I'm going to get, he's right there.
I'm going right into traffic again, just like almost like when I started out.
Okay.
Bam, I get hit again.
Yeah.
By this time, I hit a Cadillac.
The guy is so angry, they put me in court right away.
Well, the mechanic followed.
He said, no way in hell.
I filled that myself.
He said, I got under.
It's on record.
My brake line was severed.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's scary.
That's scary stuff.
And you think it all ties back to this stuff that you're talking about and bringing to the public.
I had for 13 years the History Channel put out there that I helped create AIDS.
I claimed that I helped create AIDS.
I got so many death threats that I had to live overseas.
The last 13 years, I moved every 90 days for 13 years.
What?
Yes.
Every 90 days?
You go to see my passports.
Yeah.
Passports because you fill them up, you know.
And you did this because you think that they're following you trying to whack you.
Think.
You know.
I've got Sweden couldn't keep me because U.S. does.
I said, don't you think that one person, maybe 300 million people, might have a trouble with the U.S. government?
They were going to deport me right away when I went there for political asylum.
But then they found records that somebody accused me via Osama bin Laden's friend and all these other horrible things.
And so they looked into it longer and they were going to deport me.
Finally, he said, we don't know what to do with you because we're not allowed.
You're not from Iran or anything.
And you've got a service dog.
By the way, my service dog was poisoned.
The one before hers, shot to death.
All this is on record.
I'm going to get emotional.
I don't want to get emotional because it does no good.
I'd be followed.
I'd turn around and take their pictures.
They quit doing that.
I got pictures of these people.
Others that tried to deal helped me.
And we'd meet at a restaurant and somebody else would sit down and stare at them until they got scared to death and left, you know, that kind of thing.
It's a lot of intimidation.
Do you think any of these, you know how Trump's been promising to release the Kennedy documents since his first term?
Oh, let me say that.
Do you think they'll release all that?
Let me explain.
For example, Mexico City, I have the documents showing that every single original document in Mexico City was destroyed.
They are all rewritten.
I've got page after page directives, what they did.
And then they put in the safe the stuff that they pretended that were very important and sent the rest of the Warren Commission, but stuff that was all laundered.
It's all marked sanitized even.
I think it'd probably be impossible for them to release all the stuff.
They will never release what really happened.
Now, here's what's going on.
And the problem is too, I think they had more time.
They released the apparatio files that say Raul apparatio was really important because I'm the only one that knew anymore what happened with Raul.
He's the only one that could have issued a visa for Lee Oswald in one day.
And so they made sure he got sick and went to the hospital so he couldn't get a visa to Lee.
Well, how did Lee know about him?
Turns out we've got records.
Most of them are laundered, but you can tell apparatio had some kind of connection with the CIA.
Now Teresa Forenza was there.
This is important.
She, Elise says, where's Raul?
I, you know, I need to, I've got the photographer.
If you are a photographer or anything like that, you can get a one-day visa for cultural reasons into, I say get a visa in one day to Cuba.
So he tried to get it.
And Aparicio wisely is in the hospital.
You know what I mean?
He doesn't want to, he's scared, I know.
But nobody knew who he was.
They'd forgotten.
So these got released like padding.
They didn't realize how important it was.
None of it was redacted.
And I've got all kinds of stuff about that.
So anyway, Provenza is the attache, cultural attache's assistant.
She's a lesbian who had the hots for Sylvia Duran, so Sylvia sent Lee over there to meet her, to meet Aparicio.
And she, Teresa, said, well, he asked where he was, and I told him he wasn't there.
This is important.
Everything was fine.
He said, goodbye-bye.
I'm sorry he's not here.
CIA had a big problem because they had posted after the assassination, he says they knew Lee Oswald went to the embassy, so they said he was in there screaming, I want to kill JFK.
screaming and yelling like he's insane.
But you've got Proenza saying he was totally rational and called, what are we going to do?
They went and framed Proenza and said she was working for the CIA, got her arrested.
She ended up two years in jail in Cuba, in Havana, before they finally realized she had been framed.
Okay?
So we've got all these people that are wiped out and so on in every direction.
So nobody knew about Proenza until I mentioned it, what the real reason was.
So recently two documents got released and they'd forgotten about Proenza a little bit.
And at the bottom of each one it says they wanted to show the list of these guys who were working for the CIA.
And it mentions Proenza.
They say, no, don't mention her.
Cut her name out.
Because of course that wasn't true.
And by then people had realized that she'd been put on there on purpose.
So they had to remove the names.
I've got both those documents.
I posted them on X. I'm at Judith on X.
It's the only place, thank God for Elon Musk, it's the only place I've been able to speak.
I've got so many documents I've already posted there.
Okay.
Wow.
Well, Judith, that was a fascinating conversation.
Your story is fascinating, I have to say.
It's a lot to digest for people.
I'm going to have to go back and watch this twice.
This is the tip of the iceberg of the stuff I've got.
Yeah.
No, it's definitely interesting.
I'm definitely going to finish reading your book.
You want to show people what they did to my book?
Yeah.
Look at your book.
That's.
When did you have this published, by the way?
2022, but you see what they did.
They ruined it.
Yeah, no, it's a shitty job they did.
They're unsaleable.
A piece of paper hanging out of them, some of it typed upside down.
You pick up the cover and it falls off.
What is the difference between this and then me and Lee?
Me and Lee is 10 years old.
We've got all the documents 2017.
We've got Raul Laparicio and other stuff.
See, I could say these things, but I couldn't put it in the book until I had evidence.
Back everything i'm telling you.
I have documents on and, by the way, I have backups.
By the way, I I have depositions because i've started working with attorneys and now my testimony is in the Portal OF Texas History.
I've got the documentation to show that I have credible.
I had it.
I told you.
I showed you about um 60 minutes.
I'd like to before we finish.
Yeah, so 60 minutes.
They did it.
They were working on a documentary about you for almost two years.
No, 14 months.
Okay.
So a little bit over a year.
Yeah.
But the point is, they tried very hard to do it.
They were not allowed to.
By who?
Well, no, 60 Minutes.
So we had Don Hewitt, who founded 60 Minutes, Phil Scheffler's number one guy.
Okay.
And, well, we had a number of other people that were involved.
But the point is, is it was a wonderful team, all right, set up.
And the difficulty that we had is that CBS at the top had Dan Rather, the one who said, oh, I saw Kennedy's head thrown violently forward, you know.
Right, right.
And then nobody had access to the film at that point, so nobody knew.
That's right.
And it's very obvious.
So he's at the top and he could get in big trouble and CBS has got new people up there and they locked three times they tried to film me.
I even had makeup on my face the third time and he blocked it.
So 60 Minutes got really mad about it all, you know.
So yeah, that's crazy.
They would spend that much time, that much money on your story and kill it at the very end.
Mike Wallace said, this ain't going to fly.
He said, look, what they're going to do, we're going to have to cancel this because they won't even give us a special because like you, you know, so it needs a lot of time.
They won't give us a special.
He said, we've got to make sure that Baker, he didn't say Judith or anything like that.
We've got to make sure Baker doesn't get discredited because we have to.
So they made CVS issue to me two checks, and I showed you one of them.
You have a copy of the W-2 form.
Right.
CVS had to pay me over $2,000 in lost wages.
They've never did that in the history of no, they've never done that.
Because they spent all the time filming with you and they never aired it.
Never.
Well, they couldn't film.
They destroyed everything.
They didn't.
They had audio.
They didn't have film made yet, they had audio, but they all destroyed.
But they gave me back all my doc.
When you hand over a document, 60 minutes, you don't get it back.
I got mine back.
I got the money.
He said we've got to show that you were credible, 60 minute, not going to pay some CBS, not going to pay somebody if they're not a credible witness, and that'll be your proof.
That's so.
I showed that to you.
Yeah yeah wow, wild story.
And uh, you know I hate that word wild because it's wild.
It's wild, it's almost like a movie.
I mean, it's like a movie it's it's, It is crazy.
At face value, it sounds nuts.
I know.
But it's, you know, you have a lot of, you brought a lot of proof here.
Ed Haslam spent a long time on his book as well, Mary's Monkey.
And, you know, he states that he was very skeptical because there was another, a fake Mary that he met.
Very, very me.
Somebody impersonating you.
So, and he didn't want anything to do with it because he thought it sounded like it stunk to high heaven.
He was a fake story.
He was a fake story to me too.
He thought I was an imposter.
He said, I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you.
Right.
Stuff like that, you know.
And then eventually, eventually he started to take you seriously after he did a lot of vetting.
Think about the bioweapon.
Think Bioweapon or Movie00:01:32
Think about, well, let me put it this way.
Think about the lockdowns that happened, how people were forced to do something that maybe they shouldn't have been forced to have to do.
I'm not, people use your imaginations.
Understand, who would have ever dreamed that the whole world would be locked down over something like that?
Think that just sounds like fairy tale too.
Yeah.
So this thing is big.
And it's linked to all that.
We can trace it all the way back from Chester Sotham with his experiments.
That virus we can trace all the way back to us.
They don't want you to hear it and they're going to make fun of me forever.
Yeah.
Well, thank you very much for making the trip down here and spending the time with me.
I really appreciate that.
Well, God bless you.
And I credit God that I'm alive.
Taking into consideration your history and all the circumstances, I would agree.
I mean, I've got pain in my left eye.
They saved my left eye.
I've had so much damage done.
I can't feel either of my hands.
I see double vision.
I'm legally blind, all this kind of stuff.
Wow.
But you see how well I read.
I've learned.
Yeah, you're a very good reader.
Well, I could act one time, I could read 4,200 words a minute.
All right.
Well, thanks again.
We'll wrap up the podcast now.
We have some special Patreon questions for you.
We're going to go do on Patreon.
We have some people that are very interested in you and want to talk to you personally.