Seth Ferranti recounts his 21-year federal sentence after faking a suicide at Great Falls National Park to evade a potential life sentence for distributing 10,000 acid hits monthly. He details his fugitive years crafting fake identities, the failed hoax exposed by U.S. Attorney Henry Hudson, and brutal prison dynamics involving Whitey Bulger. Ferranti critiques the War on Drugs' racial disparities, advocates releasing nonviolent offenders, and promotes upcoming documentaries on the Emerald Triangle, the South Side Boys ecstasy ring, and America's first drug cartel. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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LSD Kingpin Origins00:02:42
Hello world.
Today my guest is Seth Ferranti.
Seth spent 21 years in federal prison after being convicted as an LSD kingpin.
He initially faked his suicide to evade law enforcement and he ended up on the U.S. Marshals top 15 most wanted list before he was eventually arrested.
Being a first time nonviolent drug offender, the severity of his sentence garnished national attention and was covered extensively by the Washington Post, the Rolling Stone, Vice, and many other big publications.
Hope that intro wets your whistle, folks.
Without further ado, please welcome Seth Ferranti.
All right, boom.
Seth Ferranti, welcome to the show.
So, the short synopsis of your story is you were a teenage LSD kingpin, right?
Yeah, I mean, basically, more or less.
So, what you could probably tell it better than I do.
So, people who aren't familiar with you, why don't you just give me a quick background?
I mean, basically, like around 13, I started getting into drugs, I started getting into counterculture, you know, mostly psychedelics and weed.
And, you know, like most people, when you start.
Using you, you know, you look for, you know, especially when you're young, like you're looking for a way to pay for it.
So, you know, I was the type of person, you know, all my friends wanted weed, all my friends wanted LSD.
So, you know, I was kind of the bold, adventurous one.
So I would find the connects.
I would find the people to go to and I would go and buy it, you know, at first just get free drugs, you know, but eventually after doing that for a couple years, you know, by the time I'm 15 or 16, I was like, you know, maybe I can make money, you know, doing this.
So, you know, I got better contacts.
I started following the Grateful Dead.
You know, like the late 80s.
What year was this?
Oh, late 80s.
Yeah, late 80s.
You know, like around 87, 88, you know, when I was 16, 17 years old, like, you know, about a junior in high school.
Started following the Grateful Dead, got an LSD connect, got some weed connects, like, actually, down here at Fort Myers, I got a weed connect out of Fort Myers.
I got a weed connect in Dallas.
I got a weed connect in Kentucky.
Plus, I was getting stuff out of California, like Northern California Emerald Triangle, through some homeboys in San Francisco.
And, um, Yeah, first it was just high school.
You know, I went to a big high school, 4,000 people.
You know, we had like a sister high school, like 4,000 people.
So I was kind of doing hand to hand, you know, retail sales.
But then as all those kids, this is in Northern Virginia, as all those kids went off to college, you know, they went to college and they would call me.
Expanding Drug Networks00:02:52
They'd be like, hey, can you bring stuff up?
And then instead of just one, you know, friend, it was like they had 25 friends, you know.
So then it just like, you know, about my 89, you know, just my, my, Network just started expanding, you know.
And really, I only had like a nine month run where I would say, like, I was a real big drug dealer, you know, and not even big in the big scheme of things.
I mean, I wasn't like Pablo Escobar, but you know, for a teenager, I mean, I was 19, I was probably making like 25, 30 grand a month, and we're talking like 1989.
Yeah, that's big money, you know, so you know, and I was, and not like I was getting a lot, but I was getting like 10,000 hits of acid a month, you know, 100 sheets, and I would probably go through, I don't know, like 100 pounds.
This brickweed, though, back then it's brickweed.
So, I mean, it's a totally different game than now.
But I would get like 100 pounds of brickweed, you know, might last me two or three months.
In the fall, you could get good weed like from Northern California, like what they would call outdoor now.
You know, but back then, like we called it kind bud because compared to the brickweed, it was like kind.
So I would get that at Kentucky, Southern Kentucky, and Northern California.
But you could only get that in the fall because, you know, it was like little small farmers, they'd grow like 25, 30 pounds.
So by December, all that stuff would be gone.
So, was weed the best drug to make money off of?
Could you make the most profit off of weed, or why did you choose weed?
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Back to the show.
I, you know, I always tell people, I never considered myself a criminal.
You know, I considered myself an outlaw because I broke laws that I thought were wrong.
So, I mean, I sold weed because, I mean, to me, weed and psychedelics are the righteous drugs.
You know, so I never fuck with like cocaine, heroin.
The War on Drugs Flawed00:10:33
I even, like, I never did drugs like that.
I was never interested, you know, cocaine, heroin, meth, you know, because those, you know, people are always Jones in.
It's like a bad drug, you know, addicts, people steal stuff.
So I was never into that.
You know, I was into what I consider the righteous drugs.
And just because you, so you were mainly into trafficking weed because that's what the drug that you were into personally.
Yeah.
And also because, I mean, I like believed in it.
I didn't think it should be illegal.
You know, I was like, why?
It's a fucking plant, man.
It fucking grows.
You know what I'm saying?
It's been around.
Yeah.
It's been around forever.
So it sells cocaine, though, right?
Not in the form that you buy, Dan.
I mean, cocaine's called cocaine.
Before you pour the gasoline on it and all that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But definitely weed.
I mean, I wouldn't make a lot of money back then.
I mean, I could make like $1,000 a pound, basically.
You know, I would get brick pot out of like Dallas, Texas.
I would get it for like $300, $400 a pound, and I could take it up to the East Coast and I could sell it for like, you know, $1300, $1400, $1,500 a pound, you know, easy.
You know, back then I'd say ounces were probably going like, you'd pay maybe $50, $60 a quarter, and an ounce of that brick pot would go for like $150, $160.
Wow.
And how old were you when you eventually got busted?
I was 20, 20 when I got busted.
So you were only 20 years old when you got busted, and how.
Long did you do in prison?
I did 25 years.
Well, I got census 25 years.
I did 21 years.
Fuck.
Yeah.
So I went in, you know, I went in in 1993 and I got out in 2015.
But, you know, I was a fugitive for two years too.
So, you know, I caught my case summer 1991, got indicted, and I didn't like what I was looking at.
You know, they were talking about, you know, go to trial, you're facing 20 to life.
You know, and that was like kind of the beginning of the war on drugs, 1991.
And I was actually in the first wave of kind of the psychedelics and weed guys, you know, because when they made those laws in 1988, it was all for the, you know, the African-American guys in the inner city.
Right, right.
So they were cracking all those dudes in the head, giving them like 20, 30 years for like five grams of stuff.
Yeah, five grams of crack.
That's why they made those laws.
But then when they got some criticism after they'd been doing that for about three years, they started getting criticized.
And especially, I'm in Northern Virginia, so we're right outside of D.C.
So that's, you know, it's kind of like, you know, all the politics and stuff.
So, uh, I almost felt like when my case happened, it was like, you know, they were like, look, we bust white drug dealers too.
I was in that first wave of like weed and psychedelic dudes, you know, when they came out to the suburbs, you know, and they just started hammering us.
But yeah, they were trying like, I was looking at 20 to life.
You know, they wanted like back in the feds too, because if you know anything about the feds, the feds got like a 99% conviction rate, right?
So most people in the feds like plead guilty, but even, you know, more people in the feds like cooperate.
Most people cooperate, right?
Yeah, that's the only way to get your sentence down, basically.
You know, so they were pressing me to cooperate, but you know, I was like looking at the situation.
I didn't want to put somebody else in a fucked up situation like I was in.
I didn't want to do 20 to life.
And I had a little bit of money.
I didn't have a lot of money, but I had a little bit of money.
Like I said, I was making sometimes $20,000, $25,000, $30,000 a month.
So I had a little bit of money put away.
So I basically took off.
I was like, man, fuck these guys.
You know what I'm saying?
And I took off and I was a fugitive for two years.
So I didn't get caught or sentenced until 1993.
Wow.
So you were on the run for two years, you said?
What was it like when you first found out that you were in trouble or you had the feds on your radar?
I mean, it was a shock.
I mean, because basically, I was a, you know, I grew up in the suburbs, man.
So I was basically a white middle class kid, you know, military brat.
So I just didn't think, you know, I didn't think that I could face that type of time, especially for what I was doing, you know, considering I was nonviolent.
And like I already said, I didn't fuck with what I considered the bad drugs.
You know, I wasn't a violent person.
You know, so I was like really surprised.
I was like, how the fuck could I be facing 20 years for like weed and LSD?
And really, not even a lot.
You know, in the big scheme of things.
I mean, there's dudes bringing like tons of marijuana into this country.
Right.
You know, I mean, and like I knew the LSD scene and the Grateful Dead.
I mean, the chemists, I mean, they make like hundreds of grams of LSD.
Like each Grateful Dead show, they would fly 25 grams of LSD into each show.
You know, and I was getting like, I was getting like one, you know, one gram.
You know, basically a month.
One gram is like 100 sheets, it's like 10,000 hits.
Wow.
So I was getting like a gram a month.
You know, in each Grateful Dead show, they were flying in 25 grams.
So I was like, you know, yeah, in high school, you know, in a freshman, a sophomore in college, yeah, I was a big drug dealer, you know, because, you know, I had the money, I had the drugs.
And you were the guy?
Yeah, I mean, we're all kids.
Yeah.
But, you know, in the big scheme of things, so, yeah, I was fucked up, man, when that shit happened.
I was like, I couldn't believe it.
You know, it was kind of like, I mean, it was really a big shock to me.
And it was also even more to me.
It was like a betrayal to me, you know, because I grew up, you know, I was American.
You know, I was like, man, this is my country.
You know, I believed all the bullshit, land of the free, home of the brave, you know, capitalism.
You can do anything you wanted.
And then like they're going to come and hammer me.
And I'm like, damn, I'm like fucking, you know, not, I didn't go to war or nothing.
Not so free anymore, is it?
Yeah.
I mean, it's not like I went to war and fought for the country, you know, but whatever.
If they called me, I would have.
You know, just, you know, that was my time.
You know, they didn't have that then.
So whatever, you know, but I was like a red-blooded American dude.
And they did, you know, I felt, I was like, damn, my own fucking country is doing this shit to me.
Just saying.
Yeah, for some fucking weed and LSDs, for some shit that should be legal.
So that's really, that's really how I felt.
That's like was really my motivation.
You know, now I can say now, you know, whatever, 30 years later, I mean, I feel justified in my actions, but, you know, maybe I was a man ahead of my time or whatever.
But I mean, that was like my whole thing.
You know, yeah, I'm not saying I didn't.
I like to make money.
I mean, everybody likes money.
Who doesn't like money?
You know what I'm saying?
Money makes life easy.
So I like money.
You know, I like being the rock star.
You know, I like getting that recognition, you know, being the man when I came.
I liked all that, you know, but I have like an underlying thing.
My underlying thing was this shit should be legal.
I mean, all my friends smoke weed.
You know, not all my friends did LSD, but a lot did LSD.
I was like, you know, people, you party, man.
You fucking do shit.
That's what you do, especially, you know, whatever you want to say, white America, whatever America, college America.
I mean, that's what people do.
You know, and I saw myself as like a facilitator of that whole scene.
Now, the whole thing started was when there was like watching the Little Vice clip.
There was like some kid who was running through the woods naked on LSD and he grabbed the cop's gun and shot him in the arm or something.
That was like the cataclysm of everything, right?
Yeah, so there was this, you know, they got this area in Fairfax County called Clifton and it's like all like big million dollar houses.
And, you know, this is like back then it was million dollar houses.
So we're talking, you know, like 89, 90.
And they're all like on five or six acres.
And, you know, sometimes like every time, like any place in the suburbs, you know, when people's parents go out of town, people throw parties, you know.
So they used to, but they used to throw some big parties out there because they had a lot of land, you know.
Sometimes they would like bring, they would bring like stages out for bands, they would bring like skateboard ramps.
They would like literally move skateboard ramps in, you know, and have skate shows and all types of stuff.
So they were having this big party out there.
And, you know, eventually like, all parties, you know the the cops get called, you know, so the cops got called, and there was this one kid I I never met the kid, I don't know who he is, but uh, you know, a 15 year old kid, I mean, his name was all in my paperwork.
I can't remember it though, but uh, like a little 15 year old kid, he was tripping on acid.
He was like basically, the cops came and like he freaked out and he was running through the woods naked and, you know, this cop chased him down, you know, tackled him or whatever, grabbed him, and I guess, whatever the kid freaked out grabbed the cop's gun and uh, you know, he shot him.
But It was like basically, like he shot him in the arm, man.
So, I mean, you know, I mean, it could have been, I'm not downplaying anything.
I mean, it could have been more serious.
I mean, he shot him, but I mean, he shot him in the arm, you know, so basically like a flesh wound or whatever.
But that, like you said, that was a catalyst for my case because that was like LSD.
That was like LSD that came from, you know, a batch that I brought into the area.
So, and that kid told him your name?
Well, he didn't know my name, but, you know, he knew.
He told them who he got it from.
And you know, this is how the feds do.
The feds, it's like dominoes.
Yep.
You know, so let's say something happens to you.
They're like, who do you get it from?
Oh, I got it from him.
You know, and he got it from him.
And it's just, it's like dominoes.
You know, that's how the feds do because they go and threaten, you know, especially, you know, back then, they go and threaten, you know, middle class kids, tell them they're going to go to jail for tenure life.
And they do, they play it up.
They say, like, oh, yeah, you're going to end up in the cell with fucking Big Bubba.
And what do you think is going to fucking happen?
Yeah, they really sell it to you.
Yeah, man.
You know, and like I say, I'm not saying whatever, you know, you break the law, you get caught, you got to do time.
But, you know, the more, the older I've gotten, I look at how the system is, you know, the war on drugs, all that.
I mean, everybody can say now that the war on drugs was wrong pretty much.
But it's more than the war on drugs, man.
You got to look at the way law enforcement operates.
You got to look at the way, you know, that they try to manipulate people and the things they say.
I mean, really, if you think about it, dude, that shit is like fucking evil, man.
Yeah.
Those are some, you know, some of those dudes are just doing their jobs and, you know, they're probably decent dudes and they probably let motherfuckers off.
or some little bullshit or some weed or whatever.
But the whole concept of that whole war on drugs and law enforcement and forcing people to inform, you know, on their friends, you know, become an outcast or whatever.
I mean, I'm not even going to say take it to like, you know, it's not like we were the mafia.
So it's not like anybody was, you know, fearing for their lives because they snitched.
Faking Suicide to Escape00:04:45
But I'm saying just that's like, you know, traumatic to put somebody, you know, like, what do you think most people do?
Oh, you're going to go to jail, tend to life, and Big Bubba's going to be your soulmate.
Right.
You know, and you're fucking like an 18 year old fucking white kid, and you know, you just want to fucking go to college and party.
Right.
You know, so, you know, at the time when all that shit happened, right, my first five years in prison, you know, I was pretty angry, you know, and I'd be like, oh, fuck these snitches, rat-ass motherfuckers, you know, whatever.
You got to be hard, play the convict role and shit.
You're in prison, you know, got to put the mask on and all that shit.
But, you know, now I look at it, you know, as the years went by and I got older, I just look at it more like, I mean, it's a system.
It's a system that's fucked up.
I mean, you know, you still might got some purists say, oh, well, somebody shouldn't have told somebody.
No, the system is what is fucked up.
To make people have to make those choices, what was the story leading up to your final arrest to when you actually went to prison?
Like, explain the story how you're on the run and you had to, you did some research and you figured out how to create a bunch of fake identities and then you tried to eventually fake your death.
Yeah, well, you know, the fake identity started basically, you know, getting fake ID to go to bars, you know, because I was all the East Coast colleges.
I had a bunch of buddies at West Virginia University, right?
In Morgantown.
And it was like you could just go up there and you know, you need a fake ID for the bars on Main Street.
So you would just go down in somebody's room and they would like have all the photography stuff, everything set up, you know, where they could process it, you know, the computer stuff and print it out.
And that's when I first started getting fake IDs, you know.
So I had a bunch of, like, I was 17, 18, 19.
I got a whole bunch of fake IDs just to go to the bars at the colleges.
You know, I mean, it's.
It's like some bullshit, you know, it's not going to stand up, but you know, at night, you know, going in with the bouncers, that shit's good enough.
Yeah, it's good enough.
So that was kind of like my first experience with fake IDs.
So then when I caught the case, you know, and I started deciding, like, you know, I was going to take off, I already had some fake IDs, but I was like, man, these, they're not going to, you know, stand the test of time, you know, like in the daylight with a cop, right?
You know, I'm like, this shit ain't going to work.
So you got like holograms and shit built into them, but were they, was it like that back then?
Yeah, yeah, they have like the little holograms, but it would be like, I mean, it would just be like pressed or something.
So it would try to emulate a hologram, but it would be like pressed on the plastic or whatever.
So, I mean, it really, you know, wasn't that good.
But so I started, I was like, man, I got to find a real ID.
And I'd actually read this book, the book that they made into a movie.
You know, they made the movie Catch Me If You Can, like whatever, like 2000 or something, early 2000s.
But the dude wrote the book like in the mid 80s.
You know, he wrote that book.
So I'd actually read that book and I'd read other stuff like that.
And I was kind of interested in stuff like that, you know, for, I wouldn't say from like a criminal pursuit, but more like from a scholarly or academic pursuit.
You know, I've always been a big reader.
So I was interested in basically like how people would like, and I don't even want to say fraud, but just how like how people would get over.
You know, not like in a fraudulent way, like you're ripping people off for money, just how people would like get over on authority.
You know, that's always kind of been my thing.
And I found these companies, man.
They had these companies Paladin Press, Loom Panics Unlimited, and it was like subversive books.
Like, probably one of the most famous books that a lot of people have heard of that these companies sold was the Anarchist Cookbook, which in the mid 90s, you know, exploded when the internet came around and the Anarchist Cookbook came out and basically taught everybody how to make meth.
So, that's probably the most famous.
But these.
Companies, all they sold was like these subversive, you know, underground books, how to do, you know, and it's all protected by the First Amendment right.
So, um, I'm not even sure if these companies, like, after the Patriot Act, I think they, you know, uh, put these companies out of business.
So I'm not even sure if they still exist, but, um, they have like, you could get their catalogs and they have like this whole section on, um, like getting fake ID, right?
But not even fake ID, like real ID.
So what I did is I ordered like all these books, man.
I ordered like 25 books.
It was like, there was this one author, like, uh, It was like called Reborn in America, Trent Sands.
They had this whole series called The Paper Trip.
Informants and Snitches00:09:36
It was like the Paper Trip 1, 2, 3, 4.
You know, they have like books like Understanding U.S. Identifying Documents.
You know, just like a litany of books, man.
I mean, they had like a whole, there was probably 40 or 50 of these books.
So I ordered like 25 and I just, I read them all, man.
I read them like from cover to cover.
And that's the type of dude I am too.
Like when I want to do something, I like to read, I like to research.
And I like to read and I like to get as much knowledge as I can about it.
But then I like to make my own plan.
You know what I'm saying?
Based off the information, you know, that I attained.
You know, because sometimes you would read one of these books and there might be like one page or like one chapter that I actually learned something, you know, because a lot of it was just like rehash.
You know, a lot of these books rehash.
But there might be one insight that the author gives you, you know, that you can take and it's very valuable.
So, yeah, I did that and I basically learned to, you know, what they call paper trip.
And that was like, I would get real ID from the Department of Motor Vehicles, you know, licenses, you know, like what they call the Walker licenses, you know, like not a driver's license, just a Walker's license.
And I would basically, I would do this.
What I learned from these books is you want to find a candidate that died before he was five, you know, so find someone that passed away for whatever reasons, you know, died before they were five.
And you wanted to find somebody that was born in one state and died in another state.
Because, you know, back then, even though they, even back then, they probably had the technology, but, you know, they didn't have the money to cross reference all these records.
So let's say, like, if you're born in Tampa Bay and you die in Tampa Bay, it's like the same department.
Right.
Same place.
They could find a lot of records.
Yeah, they call it, it's like the Vital Health Records or, you know, Department of Vital Statistics or whatever.
So they match your records up and they'll.
Stamp deceased on the birth certificate.
But if you die in one state and you're born in another state, especially different states, I mean, they don't even do it on a state level.
Probably like even in Florida, they don't even do it.
It's different counties.
But definitely they don't do it across state lines.
So once I found this out, I would scour the obituaries.
So I would go through obituaries and I would look.
This was my candidate.
I would look for a candidate, somebody that was under five.
And the reason I would pick somebody under five, because typically, you know, especially back then, you know in this, like the 70s, like I was born 1971, so I was looking somebody you know that was born like anywhere from 68 to 70, you know 76, I had about an eight-year window, but especially back then before, before you were five, you didn't get a social security number, you know.
I mean, I don't know, nowadays they may give it to you younger, you know what i'm saying, but back then, you know you, they didn't get you a social security number, sometimes not until you were like a teenager, you know, and you started working really yeah wow, yeah.
So things were different back then, you know.
So um, You would want a kid under five, because then they don't have any other records of vital statistics.
So it's just basically the birth certificate.
So I would look through the obituaries.
And in the obituaries, I'm looking for this candidate.
And then from the obituary, you basically get a lot of information that you need to order the birth certificate.
From the obituary, I would get to order somebody's death certificate.
You need to know their name, place of death, date of death.
So I could find somebody there.
I get those three things.
I order the death certificate.
Then with the obituary and the death certificate, I can get the five things that I need for the birth certificate.
Because to get the birth certificate, you need like a full name, place of birth, date of birth, father's full name, mother's maiden name.
Right?
And like I said, these are just the vital statistic bureaus or whatever.
So, I mean, basically, you write a letter.
You do it through a mail drop, like a P.O. box that looks like a real address.
You know, and you send them a money order, you know, like eight or ten dollars, and you say, like, basically, like, you know, I'm the person's father, I'm the person's, you know, and it just has to be a relative, you know, and so you write.
And then once you got the obituary, you find the candidate, you get the death certificate to get all the information you need for the birth certificate.
Once you get the birth certificate, you're pretty much home free.
Because, look, I can get that birth certificate, and you know, now this is like whatever, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like 20.
So, and a lot of times it, maybe the older you get, It's harder to do and it's probably harder to do now because they got identity theft and all that back then they didn't even have identity theft They didn't have identity theft till like around the mid 90s or something, you know, so it wasn't even back then you could legally have an ID in someone else's name as long as you weren't using it for fraudulent purposes Wow, I mean, but you know, that's that's like America, you know, that's what America used to be.
Yeah, stuff like that, you know, it's changed a lot, but so once I got the birth certificate I was home free because then I could go in To any DMV, right?
And the only, a lot of times, if you just get the walker's license, not the driver's license, all you need is a birth certificate and like an address, you know, like, you know, address that says you live here, you know, like an electric bill or something like that, you know, in that name, right?
And to get the driver's license, you just need to verify a social security number.
And so, what I used to do to verify a social security number, I had this book.
It was called Understanding U.S. Identifying Documents.
And in the understanding U.S. identifying documents, each state, Has like a the for your first three numbers in your social security number are by state, so each state has like you know from you know whatever 039 to 042.
So that determines a state, then the two middle numbers go by the year, but it's not like if you were born in 71, the middle two numbers are going to be 71.
It's like if you were born in 71 in that state, the numbers might be 23.
But it's all done by a chart, it's all like corresponding.
They have these charts in the book.
You know, because that's what the Social Security Administration people use.
And then the last four numbers are random.
So what I would do is, you know, depending on where the person was born, I would fucking determine what the number is.
I would look at the charts, you know, and the years and everything, and then I would determine that.
And then, like, I would get a W-2 form, right?
And I would put that Social Security number and that person's name, you know, whose identity I was going to assume, and I'd make it seem like I worked at, like, some local place.
You know, restaurant or whatever, and I'd write their address and I'd do a W 2 form just like you know they give you a W 2 form.
And you can get W 2 forms from like any business wholesale supply company.
You can go buy like a box of like those government printed, you know.
Like, I mean, I don't know what it is now, but back then, you know, because everything's probably electronic now, but back then it was like, you know, these multi, you know, like so it makes like five copies.
Yeah, yeah.
The carbon copies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, you know, you could just type it right on.
I have a typewriter.
I would type that shit on.
And then I would go and I'd have the birth certificate.
I would have the W-2 to verify my social security.
Even though the social security was fake, under scrutiny, the social security number would not stand up because it was fake.
But a lot of times when you just go to the driver's license, you know, that social security more like if you went to a bank or you tried to open a bank account, because I did that a couple of times.
I tried to open a bank account under these assumed names and the social security number never stood up because they would tell me straight up.
They'd be like, are you sure that's your right social security number?
And I'd be like, oh, I think I need to get the fuck out of here.
Yeah.
We have a guy on here who used to do the same thing for bank fraud.
And he would go and he would get, he would convince homeless guys, he would pay them for all of their information, for their social security number, for all of that stuff.
Give them like 20 bucks.
He'd spend like 100 bucks and get five socials.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, he's probably killing it, huh?
Oh, yeah.
He was killing it.
Yeah.
I know now a lot of people, they get those federal tax numbers.
You know, like the federal, uh, It's just like a social security number except for a business.
It's like a tax ID.
EIN number, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, like, dudes will buy, like, you can, like, get, like, 10 of those.
I mean, I don't know where they get them from, but they get, like, 10 of them if they're good.
Like, they just use those, like, social security numbers just for, like, all types of different fraud.
Really?
Yeah.
You know, ex cons.
Ex cons are in there.
They're not hard to look up.
You can, like, Sunbiz is the Florida, like, business directory.
You can just type in any name.
You can find a list of businesses and look it up, find all their EIN numbers.
Most ex cons.
Most ex cons are, they basically do, like, I mean, I'm not saying all.
I'm not trying to put a bad name on XCOMs.
But XCOMs that are still doing criminal stuff, they basically do like weed stuff and like fraud, you know, because it's like, you know, the least, you know, once you get in there and you learn like what they punish, you know.
So it has the biggest risk or the biggest reward with the least risk.
Yeah, but.
So how many of these fake IDs did you create?
Hollywood Movie Deal00:09:44
I mean, I probably had like 25.
25?
Yeah, one time.
Wow.
Yeah.
I had four passports.
And different names.
You know, my eventual plan was to get like a quarter million cash and fuck off, you know, because, you know, I was a military brat.
So look, I lived in Germany for two years.
I lived in Germany for two years when I was a kid.
I lived in England for three years.
So I was familiar with Europe.
You know what I'm saying?
So like, I was going to, you know, but I don't know.
A lot of the stuff with dealing drugs and I guess with anything in life, like, you just get used to the.
The lifestyle you know.
And then it's just, you're just trying to maintain the lifestyle you know.
So I guess I guess that could be said for any, any walk of life or whatever.
But uh yeah, I never got that quarter of a million and I never got to Europe.
Yeah, clearly right.
So what, what did happen what?
What happened?
You know you had all these ids.
You were basically you knew the feds were on to you didn't, didn't you?
Didn't you have like your phone tapped?
Didn't you and your friends have like your phones tapped?
You knew they were like following you right, and they were like Pinpointing where you were at and tracking what you were doing.
Yeah, well, not at first.
I mean, you know, for two years, so I'm a fugitive for two years.
So look, like the first six months, like I'm paranoid.
Like I think like the feds got that power, you know, because when you go through a situation like that, especially as a young kid and basically, you know, all your friends tell on you and you're just like, you think the feds are like omnipotent.
Right.
But in reality, right.
They're not omnipotent.
All their information, they're, they're getting from the people that you know.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
So, so at first, you know, I'm saying they, I mean, they can't tap people's phones and all that.
But that, that with me, that came like, that was like maybe like a, Like when the U.S. Marshals were like hot on my trail, like right at the end.
You know, they were kind of tracking my movements through like a 1 800 beeper, you know, but that was like right at the end.
But, you know, so for the first six months, I would say I was pretty paranoid because I thought they had all these powers.
And plus I was fucked up.
You know, I always tell people it's like, you know, there's this Jimi Hendrix song, you know, that it's like called Castles Made of Sand.
And it's like, you know, castles made of the sand slip in the sea eventually.
And that was kind of like my story, you know, because, um, You know, I'd made myself into this like, you know, want to be rock star or whatever, but it was all based, you know, on my ability to move weed and LSD, you know.
And when that foundation was like ripped out from under me by the feds, I mean, I was fucked up.
I didn't know who I was, you know.
So, you know, it's all this shit.
And then, you know, I take off.
I'm a fugitive.
I can't even be my real name.
So that first six months, you know, a lot of paranoia, a lot of like, you know, you're just like questioning, like, you know, who the fuck am I?
What am I doing?
You know, is this the right thing?
But, you know, at the same time, the fucking alternative, you know, snitch on your fucking friends or do 20 to life.
I mean, you know, you're just like, fuck.
But, you know, after six months, it took me about six months, I'd say I started getting my mojo back.
And first I went out to LA.
I was in Hollywood.
You know, I had a little bit of money.
I spent it, though, really quick.
Like when six months, I spent all the money I had.
So I ended up back in Dallas, Texas with my weed connect.
This dude, you know, Mexican Eddie, who had a trucking line, was bringing weed over from Matamoras up to Dallas.
And I started selling weed in, you know, like Texas and Dallas.
But I mean, down there it was like back then, like ounces were going for like 60.
So it was like you really couldn't make a lot of money.
So I was kind of selling weed to like this, there was this restaurant, it was called Harrigan's.
And I was kind of selling weed to like the restaurant crowd.
You know, I lived with this dude, he was a cook.
He was actually from Missouri.
So one weekend he was like, hey, dude, I'm going to go home, you know, and fucking go party.
He was like, you want to come?
And I'm like, shit.
And I'm like, you know, people that can sell weed?
Can you sell some weed?
And he's like, fuck yeah.
So I go to my dude, Mexican Eddie.
You know, I grab like fucking 20 pounds.
And I'm like, fucking, we drive up in this dude's truck.
And fucking, I didn't even sell all the weed, man.
I probably only sold like 14 pounds.
I probably bought six pounds back to Texas.
But I made connections.
And then that was kind of how I made my money in the first place.
I would like buy something somewhere at a low cost and I would bring it somewhere else and sell it for a higher cost.
I mean, that's the basic premise of drug smuggling.
So once I found this out, I was like, fuck it.
I was back on, you know, where I could, I had a margin.
I could make like $1,000 a pound taking that shit up to St. Louis.
So I started doing that, kind of got my fucking mojo back, you know, and basically I had like another little run, you know, like another little run, probably, you know, it took, probably took me like six to nine months to build up my clientele where I was making good money.
And then I had about probably another nine, eight, nine months run before, before the feds got me.
And how that happened.
I was actually the same dude, the cook.
We'll just call him the cook.
And he was selling weed for me up there, and he was still working as a cook.
And he was actually working at TGI Fridays right by the St. Louis airport.
And so we were actually going out to party in this street, this place that's called St. Charles.
It's like Main Street, like down on the river.
But he needed to go make a drop with one of his guys, you know, at TGI Fridays.
So we go to make the drop, but, you know, the kitchen is so busy.
You know, it's like on a Friday night, his dude can't get off the line, so he doesn't make the drop.
You know, and it's not even a lot of weed, it's like half pound.
So you know, but I don't know this, you know he, you know I thought he made the drop, so whatever, you know my bad, you know, or whatever, but he didn't tell me.
So then we go and I make a drop.
You know, I dropped like two pounds with this guy and uh, you know we're waiting in the back of a Burger KING parking lot and you know we're about to go out and party and i'm just waiting for money and I don't think my dude has any weed and he doesn't say nothing.
So you know, we're sitting in the back of Burger KING parking lot and we're just smoking joints Like fucking crazy.
You know what I'm saying?
And this is another fucking turn of bad luck.
So it just so happens, like we were in the Burger King first, we were eating.
But you know when people do drug deals, they take forever.
So I give this dude two pounds.
He goes down to the trailer park.
It's taking him fucking forever to bring the fucking money.
So we eat in the Burger King.
We go out.
We're smoking fucking joints.
And just so happened this Burger King had got robbed like a week before.
And they had gone in the back.
So they see us out in the fucking back in a truck.
And they fucking call the cops on us.
You know, the cops roll up and the fucking they can smell the weed, you know, so boom, they're like fucking on us.
And, you know, I'm thinking we're cool.
Like, whatever.
I got a couple joints on me.
You know what the fuck they're going to do.
You know what I'm saying?
But dude had a half pound in a guitar case.
And they found that.
So they arrested us both, brought us in, printed us.
And still, I'm good because it's not my car.
I'm under fake ID.
And it's his weed.
So, I mean, he got to take it.
Whatever.
I mean, it's my weed, but, you know, really.
I fronted to him.
It's his weed.
It's his responsibility.
So, you know, he does the right thing.
He tells him it's my weed.
He tells him I don't know anything about it.
But they printed me.
Right.
And when I was a fugitive, I had watched all those shows like America's Most Wanted, you know, like all the fucking shows, you know, because I was interested.
Did you become more interested in it once you were on the run?
Oh, of course.
I was studying.
I was like, how do they find people?
Right.
You know, like, how long does it take?
You know, from so from watching these shows, uh, I'd seen like serial killers.
It took them like 90 days to match up their prints, like fucking serial killers, right?
So I was like, who the fuck am I?
I'm like a little fucking weed fucking LSD dealer, non violent, you know, fucking from the suburbs.
I'm like, who the fuck gives the fuck about me?
But I had no idea.
I had no idea.
I was top 15 US Marshals list.
Oh, shit.
Yeah, top 15 fugitive, dude.
Like, for whatever fucking reason, right?
So they match out my fucking prints and like, Three days and they got the fucking because they released me, you know.
Because dude, he's like, it's my charge, it's my car, it's my weed.
So they released me, but they ran my prince, you know, because that's what they do when they arrest people, they just run your prince just to see.
They mash up my prince and they're like, oh, you're not fucking this dude, you're fucking Seth Ferrante.
So fucking the you, the fucking uh, fugitive task force is like on my my tail.
And this dude, it's like his real name and like you know, he has family in St. Louis, you know what I'm saying?
So they're like all on his grandparents and his fucking mom and shit, and he's all like freaking out, and then he starts fucking.
Cooperating and uh, that was when it was like the little thing, like the seven days where they were like tracking my movements because they were trying to see.
Because, you know, I had some weed, so I was selling weed, and the dude, the cook who got busted, knew I had weed, and I was trying to, you know, I knew I got arrested, but I had no idea they're going to match my prints, and the fugitive task force is looking for me.
But still, I'm still like, I need to get the fuck out of Dodge because they're going to match my prints up in like fucking 60 to 90 days, and they're going to find out who I am.
So I'm trying to fucking move this weed, and then I'm going to fucking take the money, and I'm going to go fucking, you know, just basically go somewhere where nobody knows me and hide out.
But, you know, I didn't have the opportunity because they were fucking on me, and.
America's First Drug Cartel00:15:39
Is that when you tried to fake your death?
Oh, no.
Yeah, I skipped that part.
So we can go back to that.
That was when I left.
So when I left in 91, right, that was like, I told you I was doing everything with the books.
I was coming up with a fake ID plan, right?
And then this was like my grand plan, right?
After getting the fake IDs, because I knew if I was gone, like after seven years, like if I just disappeared, like after seven years, like you could be declared legally dead.
In this country, okay, like if you just disappear without a trace and nobody finds a body or nothing, like in seven years, you can be declared legally dead.
So that was like my grand plan because I was like, How the can Seth Ferrante just go away and these charges just go away and I can just be okay, you know, and just live as somebody else?
And I was like, You know, after seven years, my parents would have had to declare me legally dead.
So what I did is I got the fake ID and I was ready to go and I had a little bit of money, but you know, then I wanted to.
Throw something extra into it, you know.
I wanted to fake my suicide because that was like my plan.
Then, boom, I fake my suicide.
My body washes out to the Atlantic Ocean.
They never find my body.
Seven years, I'm declared legally dead.
No Seth Frontenay, no federal case, you know.
So, I'm good.
I can just live my life as whoever, you know.
But, um, so I made this whole big plan.
There's this place in Northern Virginia, it's called Great Falls, it's like a national park, and it's like a lot of cliffs and it's like rapids.
And it's kind of famous among kayakers because they got what they call Class V rapids.
And all the superstar kayakers like to go kayak there.
Because Class V is like, you don't want to, unless you're a superstar kayaker, you don't want to kayak there.
It's like a black diamond of skiing.
Yeah, basically.
Or even double black diamond.
Yeah.
So it's basically like if you fall in the water there, there's so many rocks and the river moves so much, it's so rapid that you're going to be knocked unconscious, drowned.
Yeah, so from being in that area in Northern Virginia and going to high school there, I used to remember, you know, I was always a big sports guy.
So I remember, you know, back then it was newspapers, you know, it wasn't the internet.
So every day I would like rip over the Washington Post and I would go to the sports section.
Before the sports section is the metro section.
So sometimes, you know, I might catch the headline on the metro section.
And I remember people always committing suicide there at Great Falls because they would jump in the water and get smashed against rocks and drowned.
So it was like, it was like a.
You know, it was like a popular spot for suicides.
You know?
Interesting.
So.
Die in nature peacefully.
Mm hmm.
So I remember this, right?
So then when all this comes about, I'm like, boom.
Great Falls.
Fake my suicide.
Disappear.
Seven years.
Declared legally dead.
No case.
So that's my whole plan, right?
So I make this whole plan.
You know, I do a suicide note.
I park my car there.
I stage a little.
You know, I make a little setting on the side of the cliffs, you know, like with, you know, with like my clothes, my wallet, I put like a vodka bottle, you know, I like even leave money in my wallet, you know, like a pack of cigarettes, you know, some weed.
Like I was sitting there, you know, contemplating suicide.
I even, leading up to this for like two weeks, I was even like dropping hints to people, you know, people that I knew or people that I was around, like, oh man, I don't know if I can take this, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
And, um, so I staged my suicide, you know, and, and, um, I actually, I was on the on the cliffs like it's in an area where you're not supposed to be, you know, it's not necessarily roped off, but it's just like, you know, off the path.
And I waited until some people came by like some joggers.
I went up there and I'm like, my friend jumped.
And then I just rolled out, you know, and I had somebody waiting for me and I went in the car, you know, then they took me to the airport and I flew to California, you know, but I found out years later those people because when I was in prison, I got all the Freedom of Information Acts.
And those people actually did like a report with a park ranger.
Like they were the people who reported it, you know, that I went in.
Yeah.
But, you know, when that first happened, I was out in L.A. in Hollywood and I'm reading the papers every day.
Right.
Cause I want to see like I'm declared dead.
Right.
So first it comes out and it says like, you know, Fairfax LSD, Kingpin, commit suicide.
And I'm like, fuck yeah.
I'm like, my plan's going to work.
And dude, I'm like 20.
So, you know, I'm like fucking.
You know, like I'm saying, I mean, I was a smart kid for 20, but still I'm like 20, so I'm like incredibly naive in a lot of things, you know, but, you know, you don't think you're that age and you're like, man, like something you planned, you know, monumental and it's fucking going down, right?
But so then I kept reading the fucking things, right?
And then like two weeks later, dude, I was just like fucked up, like just fucking like heartbroken because I read the headline.
It said fucking, it said the U.S. Attorney's Office, you know, calls the Fairfax LSD Kingpin suicide a hoax.
And I was like, what?
So I fucking start reading it, right?
And I read the fucking article, dude.
And it's like crazy because I'm like literally driving down.
Like back then, they had newsstands, you know?
So, like, you would go to the newsstands to get like the newspapers from different areas.
You know what I'm saying?
Like in the big cities.
So, I'm like literally going down there.
I'm like running to the newsstand.
It's like a big magazine newsstand.
I'm like ripping off the paper and I'm like reading it.
I'm just sitting on like, you know, Hollywood, Main Street, Russell and Bustle reading this shit.
And fucking just like, you know, I mean, on the outside, I probably look cool, but like on the inside, you know, my fucking heart is just crushed because they said it's a hoax.
Because what I did.
I planned everything brilliantly, right?
But I committed, I staged my suicide on the wrong side of the fucking dam, right?
So my body didn't wash out to sea, right?
They dragged the river for two weeks.
Because it would have just stopped by the dam.
Yeah, and they didn't find a body.
So when they didn't find a body, they told the prosecutors, there's no body, the park rangers.
And so they said it's a hoax.
So, you know, I mean, I thought I was smart, but, you know, in retrospect, I was probably a little dumbass.
Whoa.
Were you in touch with any of the people in your life after that?
Do you let them know, like, hey, This is not real.
I'm still alive.
Like, what about your parents?
Like, anybody?
Only my mom.
The dude that drove me to the airport was actually my godbrother, somebody who I knew my whole life.
You know, basically, like, you know, grew up with him.
And so he told my mom, you know, that I didn't commit suicide.
But everybody else, you know, for at least that first two weeks.
Yeah, that one lady they were interviewing, she said when she found out that you'd committed suicide or saw the article or something, she was instantly like, No way.
Wait a second.
This guy could never kill himself.
He's too much of a sociopath.
That's my girl, Marcy.
She knew me pretty well, though.
But yeah, so that was like the whole suicide thing.
And then like the reason I even became top 15, it's like fucked up too because there was this dude named Henry Hudson.
For my case, he was the assistant U.S. attorney like during my case.
So I mean, I don't know.
I wasn't privy to what was going on inside the U.S. attorney's office.
But you know, in retrospect and kind of looking at everything and how it happened, this dude could have been like the driving factor in my case.
Like I said, I can't say that unequivocally or whatever, but I'm just making assumptions on everything that happened.
So this dude could have been like Henry Hudson.
He could have been like the driving factor in my case for whatever reason.
You wanted to bust some white LSD marijuana guys for whatever reason.
I don't know.
Maybe he never got high.
Maybe he had a bad trip.
I don't know.
Maybe they wouldn't give him any acid at college.
I don't know.
Who knows?
But then as soon as I disappear, This dude transfers to the U.S. Marshal's office in Northern Virginia, and he becomes the head of the U.S. Marshal's office.
So he makes like this, you know, lateral transfer like within, you know, government, you know, within law enforcement for the federal government.
So he does all the paperwork to make me top 15 U.S. Marshals.
Because, dude, I was a first-time nonviolent offender, dude.
I mean, are you serious?
Like a first-time nonviolent.
Even when I got caught, like some of the marshals, they're like, how are you top 15?
Like, they're looking at me.
They're like, and they basically told me, like, straight up, they were like, Who did you piss off?
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Because that's how fucking shit works.
How do you think it happened?
Who do you think you pissed off?
I pissed that fucking dude, Harry Hudson.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's who I fucking pissed off.
He was, like, you know, from everything I can see that I pieced together, you know, over the years, he was a driving factor in my case.
He was the one that was pushing it.
When I took off, it put like a black mark on his record.
He took offense at that.
He took it personal.
He went to the U.S. Marshal's office, made me a top 15 fugitive when I shouldn't have never been a top 15 fugitive.
There was no reason for me to be a top 15 fugitive except that I pissed this motherfucker off.
Right.
Then when I got caught, he gets a feather in his hat and you're not going to believe where this dude is now.
He's a fucking Fourth Circuit appeals court judge.
In Richmond, Virginia, for the feds.
All right.
So, look, if you look at everything in this country, like if you look at our judicial system and prosecutors and, like, you know, how that.
Okay.
You guys know Rudy Giuliani, Rudy Giuliani, right?
Yeah.
He was the prosecutor from the Gotti case, the John Gotti case in the 80s.
So, everything in this country in the judicial branch is based, like, on making a big case.
You know, you advance.
By winning big cases, you don't advance by doing the right thing.
You don't advance by advocating justice.
You know, you don't advance.
There's no incentive for doing the right thing.
The only incentive is money and moving up the ladder, right?
Yeah.
And they do that by having these big media cases.
So basically, this dude, Henry Hudson, blew my case up into something it wasn't.
You know, not to say whatever, I broke the law.
You know, I should have been punished, but I should have got like fucking five years in the state.
You know what I'm saying?
So he blew me up into this big fucking drug kingpin.
You know, took it one step further, blew me up into this top 15 fucking fugitive.
And then, you know, in his career, his judicial law enforcement career, he capitalized off that shit.
That's why I like sometimes I just tell people like, okay, yeah, I was in prison.
And I'm not saying there's some fucked up people in prison.
There's people that belong in prison.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, I'll be the first to say that.
You know, violent people do belong in prison.
You know, but you got a lot of people that don't belong in prison.
But there's just so many cases, especially like when we look at the war on drugs in retrospect, where these people like this supposedly doing, The right thing.
They're the fucking most evil motherfuckers, man.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
And this dude is a fucking Fourth Circuit U.S. Appeals Court judge.
So this dude is like one step down from the Supreme Court, man.
That's how powerful this motherfucker is.
You know?
Like I say, I talk shit about him on a lot of podcasts, so he hasn't sent nobody after me yet, but fuck him, you know?
Whatever.
Send your fucking dude, you know?
I'm just that type of dude, you know?
I'm like, whatever.
I'm going to say what I want.
If they want to come and kill me, come and kill me.
He needs to, uh, He needs to take some acid or some mushrooms or something.
I'm saying, you know, and really, my dream is to eventually have like a big scripted series or like a big Hollywood movie.
And I want to fucking portray this evil motherfucker for the person he is.
Like he'll be the main protagonist.
Yeah.
And I just want to show, and I'm going to use his real name and everything, you know.
I mean, I would, I don't know, maybe they'll want to change his name to Lawyers.
Who knows?
But, uh, Yeah, I want to.
This dude should be exposed, man, because he's sitting up there like he's this fucking righteous, fucking law abiding person.
And he basically made his career off of fucking my blood.
You know, not my literal blood, but, you know, my blood and having to go to prison and all that, you know.
And I'm not the only one.
I'm not saying I'm the only one.
I mean, but that's what he does, you know.
These people, that's what they do in law enforcement and the judiciary in this country.
They step on other people, make them out worse to be they are.
And, You know, if anybody, any other country does it, they criticize it, but they do the same thing to us.
And they prop themselves up on our backs.
Right.
You know, so, I mean, to me, you know, that's just my own personal thing, but I think those dudes are fucking evil as fuck.
The DEA, evil as fuck.
You know what I'm saying?
The CIA, they're good people, right?
Fuck, no.
Like I say, I don't really want to talk about the CIA because they just might come kill me.
What was it like when you finally got caught for the last time?
Like, what, what, describe the scenario.
Do you get like your doors kicked in?
Like, what, how did that happen?
Yeah, I was actually, I was in this, um, a conolage in St. Louis right by the airport.
And, and I was actually waiting, man.
I had like, I had like 20 pounds of pot.
And I had this dude, Columbia, you know, like one of my distributors.
I mean, his name was Dave.
I won't say his last name, but his name was Dave.
So I'm waiting for Dave to come down and get this 20 pounds because then, as soon as he brings me the money, he's up in Columbia.
You know, that's where Missouri, University of Missouri, is at.
So he sold for me up there.
He was a big volume dealer for me.
And he, like, I told him, I'm like, dude, I got this fucking 20 pounds.
You know, this was after I, you know, I had got rested.
I knew they were matching on my prints.
I knew I need to get the fuck out of here.
I knew the clock was ticking.
So I, you know, I was like, dude.
I'm going to give you all this shit for like $500 less a pound than I normally charge you.
I need all cash.
So he's like, okay, let me talk to everybody.
I'm going to get it together.
So he's actually getting it together.
He's actually supposed to come down like that morning, like around 10 or 11, you know, and bring me the cash and then I'm going to like fuck off.
Right.
But, you know, I didn't know everything that's going on behind the scenes.
You know, the marshals are tracking me and I was top 15 U.S. marshals list and all this.
So I have no idea.
None of this stuff is happening behind the scenes.
So six o'clock in the morning, I'm in this fucking Econo Lodge.
And I'm already, you know, I'm like, I know the clock is ticking.
I know I need to get the fuck out of here.
You know, I can like feel it.
You know what I'm saying?
Because when you're in situations like that, like you can feel that shit, dude.
You know what I'm saying?
Like it's just like, you know, it's like the walls fucking closing in on you, man.
Like you feel that shit.
You know, even though I didn't know, like, I didn't, wasn't cognizant of everything that was happening, but, you know, like, your body, your mind, you can sense that shit.
Criminal Escapades Book00:04:14
So, yeah, they fucking bust in, dude.
The federal marshals, man, they bust in, like, probably, like, 6 o'clock in the morning.
You know what I'm saying?
They fucking, it's just, it's like fucking three of them.
It's not even no local law enforcement.
Like, they're just fucking basically scouting me out themselves.
Like, you know, a lot of things people don't know about these law enforcement guys, but, like, these dudes are as much cowboys as a lot of the drug dealers.
Mm-hmm.
You know, a lot of people don't realize that, but I mean, these motherfuckers are cowboys.
Like, they're fucking.
They're basically scoping me out.
They don't have no local law enforcement.
They don't have no backup.
You know, it's just, it's like three of them.
You know, they fucking come in.
They're going to do whatever they want to grab you.
Yeah, so they fucking come in.
They fucking get me.
They find the weed.
You know, I have a little bit of money.
And, you know, actually, you know, to answer your question, I mean, it was in a lot of ways, it was a relief.
Because, you know, I was.
I mean, I was constantly, dude.
I had all these different IDs, and it's like you got to like school yourself, man.
It's like, okay, boom, like I take out this fucking ID today, and I would have a process in my mind.
I'd be like, okay, well, I'm fucking Jacob Birchfield today, and I'd be like, okay, Jacob Furchill, born on this date, you know, this social security number, live at this address.
Because, you know, if somebody ever pulls you over or you get addressed by a cop, you have to know that shit.
Like, it's you.
So I would do that.
And so every day I'm fucking, you know, I might do it for like a week.
You know, I'd be this guy for this week.
You know, and that shit wears on you, man.
And then it also wears on you.
I mean, I'm meeting people all the time.
You know, I'm meeting people, you know, friends.
You know, some people I like, some people I don't like, you know, especially, you know, meeting girls.
And, I mean, you can't be yourself, man.
You got to have, like, this backstory.
And none of it is true.
And then, you know, you got to constantly, like, remember, like, what you told him or what you told him or, you know, how these backstories connect or how they disconnect.
You know, because you don't want to fucking, you know, just as a basic premise, you don't want to fucking people think, oh, he's full of shit.
He's a liar.
You know what I'm saying?
Nobody would want to be considered that.
So, you know, just trying to coordinate like all this stuff in my fucking mind.
I mean, that's a lot of fucking, that's intense shit.
You know what I'm saying?
And plus, you know, I mean, I'm not going to lie too.
I was fucking probably smoking weed like crazy, you know, drinking like crazy to handle, you know, whatever stress or whatever.
But, you know, it's all like mental stress that I put on myself because of my situation.
So, um, Yeah, when I got caught, you know, I told them, like, you know, I didn't try to lie and say, you know, they're like, you're this, you're Seth.
I'm like, yeah, I'm Seth.
Cool.
Whatever, you got me.
You know what I'm saying?
So it was kind of like a relief.
But, you know, at the same time, to show you, like, you know, I know I keep hammering this about the evilness of these motherfuckers, but, like, you know, they're looking through all my shit.
They find the weed, they find the guns, or not guns, I didn't have any guns.
So they find the weed, they find the money, they find all the IDs.
And then, like, they're asking me, they're like, you got guns?
You got guns?
You know, because, if you're, if, You're involved with the feds, like any you get a gun for any criminal act in the feds.
A gun is like five extra years.
So, like, these motherfuckers, they don't give a fuck, they just want to give you time.
You know what I'm saying?
That's like their job is to get catch you and give you time.
You know the more time the better so they're like they're like no guns no guns.
I'm like no I don't have no fucking guns You know, I'm like I never had a gun.
I don't deal with people where I need a gun.
I'm not that type of fucking criminal You know so like the one marshal dude like he takes his fucking gun out and like he throws it in my bag and then he's like oh He's like what's this?
He's like you got a fucking gun You know what I'm saying?
I mean obviously he didn't put that gun on me You know he picked it back up, but I'm saying that's just like shows you like the mentality Like, why would you even do that, dude?
Like, you're.
What do you mean, threw it in your bag just to, like, joke with you or what?
Yeah, yeah.
Just to fuck with you.
Yeah, to fuck with me, dude.
But they didn't charge you with it?
No, but I'm saying, like, what type of person would do some shit like that?
Like, you think that shit is funny?
Right.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
I know what I'm looking at, dude.
I'm looking at fucking 20 to life.
That's why I fled.
You know what I'm saying?
Corrupt Forfeiture Laws00:05:48
It's the fucking height of the war on drugs.
The laws are fucked up.
You know, I know what the fuck I'm looking at.
And you're going to fucking try to play me like that.
And you're like a law enforcement.
You know, you're supposed to be the good guy.
Good guys don't do shit like that.
You know what I'm saying?
And especially like, look, I'm not resisting arrests.
I'm telling you who I am.
You know, I'm not fucking trying to go out like fucking Billy the kid or no shit like that or Bonnie the Clyde, Bonnie and Clyde, whatever.
If you're a criminal and you're trying to go out like Bonnie and the Clyde, whatever, law enforcement, do what you got to do.
That's your job.
But I'm saying in these other situations, man.
You know what I'm saying?
You know, to do shit like that, it just shows like their whole, that whole culture, man, is inherently fucking evil when it comes to the war on drugs.
And like, I think like our whole judicial system right now, look, they created a couple things that is the reason why our law enforcement is how it is today, right?
First, they did this thing called qualified immunity, where basically like a cop or a law enforcement or a federal agent, they can do whatever they want to do.
Under the guise of their job and get away with it.
Right.
Isn't that the law that says that they can't get sued for their.
Yeah, that's what qualified immunity means.
So as long as they do it under the color or the auspicious of their job, they can do whatever.
They can fucking just come in and clock you in the fucking face.
Beat the fuck out of you.
Right.
Isn't that all changing now, though?
I mean, there's more discussions going on.
There's some states where I think some of these laws are changing and let's get it.
It's being challenged.
It needs to.
I think it's more like it's been challenged.
It's been talked about.
I don't know how much it's been changed.
Yeah, stuff is slowly changing for the better, but I'm saying this is one of the worst things that has made us why basically we've become a police state right now.
Right?
The second thing is the forfeiture, dude.
Right?
Like the forfeiture.
Like, dude, you can literally, and I'm not saying it happens to some white people, but it doesn't happen to white people as much, but people of color, like African American or, you know, Spanish, you know, brown people.
They bust and pull them over, find a joint, and they take their fucking car, dude.
I mean, it happens all the fucking time, dude.
I mean, probably more in the 90s than it does now.
But, you know, I mean, dude, and look, think about this.
And I know you guys have probably seen this even down here, right?
Okay, so they got a big bust.
They get the fucking money.
And I'm not saying, I mean, some cops are corrupt.
They might put that money in their pocket.
You know what I mean?
But more times than not, they're not putting the money in their pocket.
You know, sometimes they are, but, you know, more times than not, they're not.
But all that money.
Is going to their department.
And then you see, like, the head of the department, the fucking sheriff, is driving this big fucking GMC, fucking Yukon, fucking Denali, all fucking loaded out, like, a $150,000 fucking car as his company car.
Because they use the forfeiture proceeds, the drug money to do that.
So I'm saying, if that's not corrupt, dude, I mean, that's fucking corrupt on its face.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Because that dude is driving around that car.
That's his car.
Why does a sheriff have to drive around a fucking hundred and I'm sure you guys have seen it down here because this is kind of like some country boy shit I see it up in Missouri like up in Missouri like some of the police departments or the sheriffs They have like these big fucking four-wheel drive fucking police trucks dude like outrageous like some shit you would see on fucking monster truck Yeah, and they drive and they got all their flags and it says fucking St. Charles County police right and I know you see that shit down in Florida because it's some country boy shit down here too.
Yeah, right Dude, that is outrageous.
Where do you think they get that money?
The taxpayers didn't give them that fucking money.
So you're saying that the money that they can, they can, that they seize in these drug operations, whether they raid a house or somewhere like that, they keep that to buy trucks?
They keep it for their department to buy whatever they need.
So the department gets to keep that money?
Yeah, they keep it.
Really?
Yeah.
Whatever the seizing, whoever seizes it, you know, like even if the feds are involved, that money goes back to the local agency.
Hmm.
You know, the feds might take a percentage, but you know, the feds don't need money.
The feds fucking print money.
They got the money.
The feds print fucking money.
They don't fucking need no money.
So look.
So, all right.
So those two things.
So you got qualified immunity and you got forfeiture.
And then the third thing.
So you got, you got basically law enforcement in this country.
They can do whatever they want to do and get away with it.
They fucking basically go after fucking drug dealers just to get money.
You know what I'm saying?
That's like, they don't even care about what's right or wrong or the laws or, you know, what laws are being broken or who's getting fucked over.
They're just going for the money.
That's what it's turned into.
They're just going for the money because of the forfeiture laws.
And the third thing that has turned our law enforcement in this country to this big bloated fucking entity that's fucking feeds on itself and is evil as fuck, right?
The third thing is the fucking informants.
Because look, These dudes are detectives like you got detectives like in law enforcement or agents or investigators They don't investigate nothing, dude All they do is threaten people with time and people tell them whatever they want here They don't investigate so they have they have no investigative skills.
The Informant Problem00:15:15
They're not fucking detectives.
They can't figure fucking nothing out the only type of bus they want is a bus that gets some money for their department and They have no accountability because You know if they arrest you and you say man fuck you pig they can punch you in your fucking face and bust your fucking teeth out yeah and Say whatever and and they don't have no criminal case.
They don't have nothing nothing happens to them a lot of times they don't even get suspended You know I'm saying so that's why We're at the point where we are right now, you know with law enforcement and like and look I'm gonna break this down for you even further All right, see look we're all fucking white Right, so a lot of the cops are white, so you know sometimes I mean they could be asshole to us, but that's sometimes they can look at us too and be like, Oh, you know, he kind of looks like my cousin or my brother or my family member, right?
So, they might be a little bit more lax with us.
You know what I'm saying?
But think like, but they still, I'm not saying they beat the shit out of fucking white people.
You know, if you get lippy with them, they'll beat the fuck out of you.
They don't give a fuck.
You know, they can't do nothing.
But think about like the black and brown people, dude.
Like, they don't give a fuck.
They treat those motherfuckers like subhuman and get away with it every fucking day.
Well, I mean, you see it way more nowadays because of the internet and social media.
And I'm sure they got, I'm sure, you know, cops definitely got away with it way more in the 70s and the 80s.
In the early 90s.
But with the way things are changing now, the tables have kind of turned.
Now, if you're a cop and you're a piece of shit, it's easier for you to be exposed.
Oh, true, true.
And, you know, being, I mean, think of like who would want to be a cop?
Who would want to be a person who has to go into these places and have to be constantly worried about your own life?
You know, pulling, I mean, just imagine like pulling over a car at night and.
Ask them to roll down the window.
I mean, the amount of cops that get shot.
I mean, you're worried about your own life.
I don't think.
I mean, I could see that to a certain extent, but I don't think it's.
I mean, basically, man, people are people.
Yeah.
If you treat somebody like a person and give them respect, you know, because, dude, I've been around cops, prison guards, everything.
You know, if they treat you all right, you know, you treat them all right.
Whatever.
You got to do your job.
You know, I got to do my job, especially if you're a criminal.
But, I mean, I could say some of it.
I mean, everything in life goes both ways.
But look, I'm going to throw something else at you.
And this is what law enforcement does.
All right.
If you're law enforcement and think, most people, when they do their job, they just want to do the easiest job possible.
Right.
So if you're in law enforcement, right, who would you rather go bust?
Unless you're like some gung-ho fucking supermarine cop.
And they're all those type of dudes.
There's those type of dudes.
But, you know, they're not, they're like, you know, one out of a hundred.
But who would you rather go bust?
Would you rather go bust the fucking meth fucking addicts or cocaine fucking cartel members with fucking machine guns and shit?
Or would you go rather go bust the fucking kids smoking marijuana or the fucking marijuana, nonviolent marijuana dealer?
Look, you know what are the most arrests for fucking drugs in our country every year, dude?
And still now, and it's legal in half the states.
Marijuana is still the number one.
Marijuana has been their biggest cash cow, dude.
Look, at one time.
Is marijuana still the number one thing people are arrested for in the U.S.?
Yeah, they don't want to let it go, man.
They don't want to let it go.
I mean, it is changing, but we're in this process now.
Like, it might take another five to ten years, dude.
I mean, people are still catching cases for fucking weed, dude.
It's fucking crazy, dude.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, they're not getting the same severe punishments.
Yeah.
You know, but it's still fucking insane, and especially.
You know, if you're a fucking black or brown.
It's what?
It's the system, right?
It's what they're incentivized to do.
It starts at the top, it doesn't start at the bottom.
No, it starts at the bottom.
When you build a system that incentivizes people to meet a quota, to make more money and to raise more money for your department and to get promotion.
That's like my whole point.
My whole point, everything I brought up, and it all stems from my case because I see this all from a colored view because I see it all from the point of my case and what happened to me.
But as all that has happened to me, I've seen a lot of other stuff.
That's, I mean, that's been my whole point.
It's evil, man.
It's inherently evil, like the whole system, the way it's made.
I'm saying there's a lot of people, individual people, they're just doing their job.
You know, I don't blame the individuals.
You know, I mean, if you're a bad apple, you're a bad apple.
I mean, the truth is going to come out in the wash.
You know, but the way the whole system, you know, from the war on drugs down in law enforcement is fucking inherently evil.
And I know a lot of people in law enforcement, dude, like for my work, do my documentary work, I've interviewed fucking retired DEA.
I've interviewed retired FBI, you know, ATF.
Like I say, I don't got no beef with these dudes.
Whatever.
They did their job, you know, whatever.
They thought they were doing the right thing.
You know, I can't blame them, whatever circumstance they were in in life.
Right.
But sometimes, like, even.
I talk to these dudes and like especially these DEA dudes and I'm just like like they cannot admit That the war on drugs was wrong.
Really?
No, a lot of them.
I mean some of them have come out and said but a lot of them you know the rank and file you know because I mean whatever if you spend 20 30 years of your life doing something dude You're not just gonna be like you know it takes big balls to be like oh yeah, it was fucked up You know so a lot of them and like I say it goes it good to me this whole thing It goes back to like all America.
Like, dude, I'm still America.
I love my country.
I'm not going to go.
You know, they put me in prison for 21 fucking years.
You know, like, I'm like, you know, to me, it's like the Matrix, right?
Like, I got out.
I'm like, plug me back into the Matrix.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, prison fucking sucks, dude.
That shit's like the netherworld of corruption and violence.
What kind of prison were you in?
I was in like, I did 12 years in medium highs and I did nine years in lows.
Okay.
So, you know, basically in the feds, the medium highs, they call them gladiator schools.
You know, a lot of fights.
You know, in the pin I was there in the penitentiaries the penitentiaries.
That's like the highs.
That's where they say like state penitentiaries Well, it's a federal penitentiary.
Oh federal penitentiaries, but what they say in the federal penitentiaries like they say boys fight men kill You know, like you don't fight like if you got a beef like you go stab the motherfucker 60 times You know what I'm saying?
So that's what that means, like boys fight, men kill.
I Was in what they call the gladiator schools, the medium highs where, like you know, basically you got to fight.
Like, if you don't fight, you know, then whatever you know, you can be starting out somebody taking your commissary and end up getting raped.
You know what i'm saying.
I mean that's just how it is, you know.
And then I did my last nine years in the lows, and the lows I mean it's pretty tame, you know what i'm saying.
I mean happens, but a lot of white collar criminals in there uh, white collar crime is more like in the camps.
That's like the minimum.
I could never go to the camps.
I was always behind a fence because I was a top 15 fugitive, you know.
So I could never go out to the camp.
You know I would never get minimum security.
But uh, You know, the lows, you got like the people that fuck up at the camps.
So it's a lot of minimum security dudes, you know, that fucked up.
And you got a, you know, a lot of, you even got dudes that started the penitentiaries, but they're, you know, they did 20 years there at the end of their bid.
They don't want no problem.
And then you got a lot of dudes, you know, that are just short timers.
You know, they're coming in.
They got like two, three, four, five years.
Yeah.
A lot of informants, you know, there.
But, you know, it's funny in prison because even like when you're at a low and you know there's a lot of informants, like nobody, everybody's like, oh, no, I didn't snitch.
She's a snitch.
I'm not a snitch.
It's like crazy, dude.
It's like, you know, because nobody wants to wear that in there.
You know, nobody's going to wear that shit.
Right.
You know, I found out like all the time that I did, it basically came down to it.
Like usually the person that was going trying to say who was the snitches, like usually you had to like look at them.
Right.
Because like why, like they're deflecting.
Right.
It's like, why are you pointing out, you know, some of the dudes like that, they're just crazy and hate snitches.
You know, but, you know, a lot of times, you know, I mean, but that's maybe like one out of ten, you know, like the other nine times out of ten, it's usually somebody deflecting.
Yeah, that's a crazy subject that always gets brought up when you go to prison or you get caught with a big crime.
The first thing you think of is you know, you get offered a plea deal.
Are you going to snitch?
Are you not going to snitch?
And that's like the number one question people ask you when you're locked up.
Like they ask you about your crime, they try to like poke and prod little questions, figure out more about your story.
Is he a snitch?
Is he not a snitch?
When I came in, you got to show paperwork.
So when I came in in 93, I came in 93, I went to FCI in Manchester, it was a medium high in Kentucky, right?
I got 25 fucking years.
And this is like 93.
So when I came in, you know, a lot of the people are still under the old laws from the 80s.
So I come in with 25 and I'm like this little kid.
I look like a college kid, right?
I'm like fucking, you know, 22 years old, man.
I weigh maybe like 185.
You know what I'm saying?
And fucking clean cut, everything looked like I should be in college.
And the dudes are like all the cons, you know, they're looking at me.
They're like, who the fuck did you kill?
How did you get 25 years?
You know, because still, you know, they just started those laws like in 89.
So, you know, a lot of dudes aren't used to people.
You know, like for my crime, what I did, like in the 80s, it might have been like, you know, maybe 10 years maximum.
And it was.
Paroleable, you know, but then after 89, when they made the new laws, you know, mandatory minimums, the sentencing guidelines, you had to do 85% of your time.
So there was like no parole.
So, you know, like on 25, I had to do basically, you know, almost 23.
The only reason I got in 21 is because I took this drug program for 10 months, a 500 hour therapeutic drug program, and I got a year off my sentence, you know, right at the end.
But, uh, yeah, dude, when you, when I went in back then, it's like they called a paperwork party.
Like you go in, Like wherever you're from, like your homeboys come to you, like the other white people, you know, it's all, it's everything's ethic and race and they're race based.
You know, you don't got like black dudes coming to you asking to see your paperwork.
You know, your own people, white people come to you.
They want you got to show your paperwork.
You got to show that you're not a snitch.
You got to show that you're not a chomo, you know, child molester.
And you got to show that you're not a rapist.
Because if you're any of those fucking things, it's like your own people, your own homeboys.
They're going to check you in, dude.
They're either going to beat the fuck out of you and leave you there.
Or they're gonna tell you you're gonna be like look you need to roll up dude.
You got to check in the hole.
You ain't walking on this compound You know, that's how shit goes You know what I'm saying so what what would happen if you're like yeah, I was a snitch I fucking read it out this guy this guy this guy cut all their throats and I saved 25 years of my life Now what they're gonna fucking beat the fuck out of you right there or they're gonna check you in dude.
They're gonna roll you up really walk on that compound fuck no, you know, but look I have seen I've seen a few cases Where there's been like some fucking tough snitch motherfuckers But, you know, in the end, they always lose.
I was in Beckley, West Virginia, right?
It was a medium-high, second joint I was at.
And it was a pretty rough-and-tumble joint, man.
You know, it was like they were always hitting the deuces.
Like when I say they hit the deuces, that's like if there's a fight or disturbance, like, you know, the cop hits the body alarm and all the cops go running, you know, like the Calvary, you know, to quell the disturbance.
So that's what hit the deuces mean.
So I mean they were hitting the deuces like all the fucking time like you always see the cops running So it's a fight here a fight here, you know, whatever sometimes multiple fights at the same time so There's this one dude.
I don't know his name big dude country boy Had like a cocaine case.
He was a West Virginia country boy, right?
So he's on the fucking compound Dudes know he's hot, right?
So fucking the like some of the West Virginia dudes, you know, they say oh this motherfucker's hot like they show the newspaper articles about him, whatever What does that mean?
He's hot.
Like he's a snitch.
He's hot.
Oh.
Yeah, he's hot.
So, they try to check him in.
He said, I ain't checking in.
He beats the fuck out of him.
The snitch beats the fuck out of the dude.
So, like, they end up, they get beat up.
They're in the hole.
You know what I'm saying?
They're in the hole because they got the shit beat out of him.
Because what happens, like, they're, like, let's say me or you get in a fight and I beat the fuck out of you and you're all marked up.
So, the cops, when they see you marked up, they're going to lock you up basically for your protection.
And if you don't say what happened, like, you'll say some shit.
Like, if you're a stand up con, you'll be like, oh, I slipped and fell.
In the shower or some shit.
Right.
But they put you in the hole because they're investigating.
They want to know what happened.
You know, so this snitch, he beats these fucking dudes up, you know, who supposedly like the shot callers for the West Virginia car, you know, who, whatever, they weren't that tough.
They couldn't even check their own snitch out of the yard.
So he beats them up.
They go to the hole, but, you know, they don't say nothing, whatever.
So this dude's like still in the yard.
So, you know, the authorities don't know what's going on, but like all the white boys know what's going on.
Right.
So then fucking, so then like some other white boys on the yard.
Like they go to the rest of the West Virginia dudes and they're like, what the fuck, man?
They're like, clean your fucking car, dude.
This is your responsibility.
You need to get this motherfucker off the yard.
So then, like, some more West Virginia dudes go or they can't do it or whatever.
So then, like, this was going on, dude, for, like, fucking about three weeks.
You know, and this dude was like, fuck you.
Like, anybody came at him, he beat the fuck out of him.
Like, he was a tough motherfucker, but he was a snitch.
So eventually, The fucking California dudes, usually like in prison for the white boys, usually the California dudes are like the toughest dudes.
It goes with the Spanish too.
Usually, like the, like they call them the serenos, the Mexican dudes, like they're under the Mexican mafia.
They're usually like the fucking most thorough, and usually the California, the Mexicans, and the whites fucking ally.
Really?
The Mexicans are the toughest?
Yeah, they're the most vicious.
Why is that?
Because if, like, they got a saying in there, like, if.
If you got a beef with one Mexican, then you got to fight all of them.
That's how that works.
And it's not like that with any of the other races?
It can be, but, you know, not a lot sometimes, you know, because sometimes it's like, you know, it's supposed to be everything is like unified, like, okay, we're white, we stand together.
But a lot of times, you know, like, I'll have a beef and you'll be like, man, fuck him.
Whitey Bolger's Prison Reality00:15:19
I don't fuck with him.
Or fuck him.
He's a piece of shit.
You know, or he's like a fucking junkie shit.
Or maybe he fucking owes me money for some heroin.
So fuck him.
You know, so it's like shit like that comes into play.
So eventually with this fucking West Virginia fucking tough guy fucking snitch, the fucking California dudes fucking cornered him out on the fucking yard with weapons and fucking beat the fuck out of him.
But it was like a three-week process.
So this dude was basically on the yard for three weeks.
Basically, like you said, yeah, I'm a fucking snitch.
Fuck you.
Wasn't Whitey Bulger a snitch?
Yeah, yeah.
Whitey Bulger was a snitch.
Yeah.
He got killed.
He got killed.
Didn't he get killed?
Didn't they put a hit on him because he had some sort of government or part of some conspiracy, right?
So, what Whitey Bulger's story was, he was in a protection.
There's a joint down in Florida.
It's like a known protection yard.
So, he was down there for a long time.
It's Coleman.
Coleman.
That's where Matt Cox went.
Yeah.
All right.
So, they got two Colemans.
They got a Coleman one and a Coleman two.
But one of those yards is a protection yard.
That's like any of the dudes, because it's a Hyatt's penitentiary.
So, any of the dudes.
That, like, can't walk mainline.
Can't walk mainline?
That means, like, mainline is like the prison yard.
Okay.
That's like the mainline, like, you're walking the mainline.
Yeah.
You know, like you're out on the yard, you're in general population.
That's what mocking mainline means.
You're in general population.
So, you know, if you can't walk mainline because, you know, maybe you're a snitch or you got beefs or people are trying to kill you or, you know, a gang has marked you for death, then you can't walk mainline.
Like the prison authorities won't let you.
Right.
To protect you.
Yeah.
So they won't let you.
Even if you say you want to, you know, they usually don't let you.
So this is what happened with Whitey Bolger.
So Whitey Bolger's, he's in.
Coleman, he's in, it's a known protection yard.
He's in there, he's walking mainline because it's a protection yard.
You know, there's a bunch of dudes, you know, that can't go any other place because they'll probably get killed.
And, but then he did something like, I don't know, something, he had something with some nurse or, you know, something that he pissed off the staff, pissed off the warning, you know, or he got, you know, whatever, sassy.
You know, he was an old motherfucker anyhow.
So, you know, whatever.
He pissed off the staff.
I don't know who or what.
Might have been from medical.
So it went up.
So they were like, and he was defiant about it.
You know, he was like, ah, fuck you, whatever.
I'm Whitey Bolger.
Fuck you.
And so they were like, okay, we got something for you, Mr. Whitey Bolger.
We're going to transfer you to a fucking prison where motherfuckers want to kill you because you're a fucking rat.
I mean, and none of this is said.
It's all unspoken.
You know, maybe the Bureau of Prison staff, like in their.
You know, whatever meetings or something, they might say that shit, but you know, I mean, they're never going to admit to that shit.
You know, so they transfer him.
And then Whitey Bolger, being Whitey Bolger, you know, even though the, you know, because when you go to the yard, anytime you go to the yard, like they ask you, they're like, you know, they ask you if you want, they just put you on the yard.
Like, you can go in PC if you want.
Nobody has to go on any yard.
If you request PC protective custody, they will put you, that's your job to protect your life.
And especially when you're dealing with these penitentiaries, because that's where you got the real fucking killers.
And especially when you got somebody like Whitey Bolger, who's this high-profile fucking dude.
It's been in fucking movies where he's a fucking informant.
Everybody fucking knows.
No, but Whitey Bolger was the type of dude.
He was like, his whole thing was like, I'm not an informant.
I paid for information.
They worked for me.
But, you know, anytime with law enforcement or criminals, especially a criminal like Whitey Bolger that has such a long reign, anybody knows with common sense that information is going back and forth.
He's giving the dude information about his enemies.
because it makes his life easier.
And the cop buses, you know, John Connolly was an FBI guy.
So Whitey Bolger goes to this prison.
It's actually a West Virginia prison.
I can't think of which one, but I think it was a West Virginia penitentiary.
So he goes to this prison, and like they basically tell him, you know, like, you know, you fear for your life or whatever.
You got any beasts with anybody?
You know, can you go on the yard?
And he's like, you know, Whitey Bolger's trying to pull, you know, he's old, but he's he's still like, I'm Whitey Boulder.
I'm a tough guy.
He's like, Yeah, I can go in this fucking yard.
And so the cops let him.
You know, but I mean, they never should have let him.
They knew better, but it was like, that's why they say that whole thing.
It was like a vendetta by the BOP, like at some, you know, high, you know, not like the normal cops, but like somewhere like at the regional office or the central office.
They were like, Man, fuck this dude.
Let's let him get killed.
Yeah.
Let him fend for himself.
That's the conspiracy.
I mean, but you know, you can probably never prove it.
I mean, they probably had investigations or whatever, but so they put them out.
But, you know, I mean, but whatever.
I don't know.
You think sometimes like these dudes, they're old, they're in bad health, you know, maybe they want to go out like that.
I don't know.
Maybe, you know, they want it in their life.
I mean, who knows what's going on in his mind, you know?
Or maybe he really thought, I'm Whitey Bolger.
Ain't nobody going to do nothing to me.
You know, he's in a fucking wheelchair.
I don't know.
Maybe he was fucking crazy.
Maybe he did too much LSD.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what a lot of people say.
He did too much LSD.
Yeah.
So, I mean, he was in that MKUltra program.
Right.
You know, I used to write.
And that was before he killed everybody, right?
Yeah.
When he did his first bid in Alcatraz.
You know, I used to write Whitey Bolger.
Did you really?
I was trying to get him to do a book.
Really?
Yeah.
When he was in Coleman.
Did he ever respond to you?
He fucking wrote me a bunch of letters.
Really?
Yeah, I got a bunch of letters.
That's cool.
Dude, his writing is like fucking chicken scratch.
Like, it's like the type of letters, like, you can barely fucking read.
Like, you gotta, like, like, it's work to read his letters.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I wrote him.
I actually, I did a couple articles where I used some of his words from his letters for this site called Ozzy.
And I actually I had a dude on my site, website, guerrillaconvict.com.
He was in the West Virginia prison where Whitey Bolger got whacked, and he wrote an article about it.
Really?
Yeah, it's on my website, guerrillaconvict.com.
What did you and Whitey Bolger talk about?
Did you ask him about the LSD stuff?
Yeah, he wrote some, you know, told me about that.
But I mean, basically, I was getting him, I was trying to say, like, dude, let me write your biography.
So he was telling me, like, little things.
Like, he was telling me about that MKUltra, and he was trying to tell me, you know, he's not a snitch.
And he was trying to tell me, you know, how the prison's fucked up or what they do to him, like all his little petty grievances.
He was like airing out to me.
That was mostly what the letters consist of.
He'd give me some history, but mostly, you know, it was how fucked up his case was.
And they railroaded him, you know, because a lot of those dudes, they get in there, especially the older dudes, they get life and they just get obsessed with these.
Like they got like these three or four trigger things and they just can't let them go, you know, and then they just eat them up.
Really?
And that's all they can talk about.
I mean, I think that happens to people a lot in life anyhow.
But in there, it's intensified.
Like when you're doing a life sentence around a whole bunch of violent people, you know, in there, it's like, I'm going to show you what prison is like.
You got to put this mask on.
You got to put this every day.
Like you got to wear this mask because it's about, to keep yourself safe, you got to keep people away.
You got to make people think like you're crazy or you're violent or you're negative.
So it's like almost like you, You make shit more than it is.
Like, you know, like shit might happen to you, you know, or like maybe the fucking, they don't give you your transfers or the cop takes your tomato, you know, writes you some bullshit shot.
So you fucking, you're like really, you know, like demonstrative.
You're like, fuck these motherfuckers, man, this is some fucking bullshit.
You know, cause you're like, you, it's like you, you emanate fucking like negativity to like keep motherfuckers at bay and keep them arm's length, keep away from you.
Because all that shit is based on it's based and built on negativity man in all prison is it's like Really prison it's a lot like law enforcement sometimes because you just kind of It's like you try to fucking step up on somebody else's back to make yourself look a bit better hmm,
you know, that's why like at the bottom of the prison hierarchy You got like the snitches, you know the chomos, you know and the rapists and you know all of us Solid cons, we're better than these motherfuckers.
Yeah.
So we, if we find out about them, we beat the shit out of them and check them in the hole to make ourselves feel good.
Right.
You know, so it's just like, it's the whole thing.
I mean, it's just prison is like fucking negativity.
What are the prison guards like?
Are there any prison guards who are happy with what they're doing?
Are there any of them that are there to make a difference and enjoy their jobs, or are they just there?
No, I wouldn't say that.
You got the majority of prison guards.
I mean, they're pretty laid back, man.
They'll tell you straight up.
They'll be like, man, just let me do my eight hours.
I don't care what you do.
Just, you know, don't kill nobody.
You know what I'm saying?
Don't beat the fuck out of nobody.
Don't make me do no painful work.
Don't make their job harder.
So that's like nine out of ten are like that.
And then you got like the one out of the ten is like the super cop.
Like he wants to go above and beyond.
Yeah.
And bust you for fucking petty shit.
You know, but a lot of them, like a lot of the blocks, like look, tattooing is illegal.
You can't tattoo, but a lot of cops, they don't give a fuck.
They'll walk right by you, check out the fucking tattoos and everything.
They don't give a fuck.
You know what I'm saying?
A lot of times, like even like.
Like in there, they call it politics.
So it's like, you know, any drama or any type of situations, you know, they call it politics.
So, you know, like if you're a white boy and you do something fucking stupid and then the other white boys, we got to fucking, you know, set you straight, you know, which means we might have to take you in a cell and whoop your fucking ass.
You know, especially if you did something stupid with some other races.
Because in the other races, they come to the white boy shot car or the white boy car.
And what I mean by the white boy car, that's like the group of white dudes.
They call it a car.
So they come.
You know to the leader of the white boy car and they're like, yo man, you gotta, you know, discipline your dude.
You know he stepped out of line, he did this, you know.
So then, and what they do, you do like a white dude will punish another white dude just to like avert a race riot.
Right, you know, because then they'll be like okay yeah, we punished him.
You know he stepped out of line, he did something stupid.
Or you know whatever.
You know maybe some uh, you know stupid new dude in prison, you know use the n word or something in front of a bunch of black dudes and they're like, You know, the dudes aren't putting up with that shit.
Right, you know, I'm saying there they'll be ready to fucking beat the fuck out of you, but you know, that's, that's like the rules, like Not in all prisons.
I mean some prisons like if you county jail, it's not that but when you're like on a prison yard, it's like the rules like you know like One race don't doesn't put their hands on another race Because that can cause a race riot, right?
You know, because like like if if a black dude Beats up a Spanish dude Even if it's one on one, if I was fair and everything or whatever, then all the Spanish dudes are going to be out on the fucking yard, dude.
It's going to be fucking, they're going to be ready, you know, they're going to be ready to fucking go to war, you know, with shanks and fucking locks and socks and, you know, fucking cans of fucking tuna and fucking, you know, fucking socks, locks on fucking belts.
Yep.
You know, shit can get crazy in there like real quick.
So, I mean, a lot of times you just do stuff, you know, Like, I'll give you a situation.
Like, I told this story to a lot of people.
Like, maybe, like, we're in prison.
Like, you're my selly.
Like, we're cool.
We're friends.
Like, we kick it.
We talk shit.
We play whatever.
We joke around, you know, in the cell when it's just me and you.
Right?
But then, you know, we go out to the yard and, like, you know, we're around this dude.
He's like fucking Aryan Circle.
You know, we're around fucking this dude.
He's like a dirty white boy.
You know, we're around this dude.
He's like the leader of the fucking Southern boys.
You know, and then, you know, and then you want to fucking try to play or say something fly, you know, to make yourself look good, you know, to make yourself like you got one up on me or something, you know, in front of these guys.
And maybe like when we're in the cell, you're my friend.
So I don't say shit.
I'm like, okay, whatever, dude.
Cool.
Shut the fuck up.
You know what I'm saying?
But you want to say that in front of other people.
And then I got to fucking, you know, I don't even say nothing.
I just fucking punch you in your fucking mouth.
You know, because you can't make me look bad in front of these other people.
That's going to like take my fucking respect from them.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And then you're going to fucking tell me in the later, you get in the cell, you're going to be like, what the fuck, dude?
Why'd you punch me in the mouth?
And be like, dude, because you do some stupid shit.
You can't jump out there.
He's like, why say that shit in the cell?
Okay, yeah, that's in the cell, dude.
Me and you, we're cool.
But you don't say that shit in front of these fucking dudes because then they're going to take that as a chink in my fucking armor and then my word isn't going to be shit.
You know what I'm saying?
So, you know, that's just, that's like politics.
That's politics.
Right.
So 21 years total, you said?
Yeah, 21 years.
Yep.
How did that change you when you got out?
Did it make you a different person?
I mean, it made me who I am today.
I mean, basically, yeah, I would say it changed me.
I mean, I would say, like, when I came in, I mean, I grew up in the suburbs, man.
So, I mean, I've never been a violent person.
I mean, I was never, like, a violent or malicious person.
You know, I never, like, to get in fights, you know.
But, I mean, now, I mean, like, I'm still not a violent person, but I can get violent if I need to get violent, you know?
Like, I I tell people all the time, look, I'm too old to fight, but I'm definitely too old to lose a fight.
You know what I'm saying?
So, like, look, and I don't want to have no problem with anybody.
You know, I'm going to try to walk away, whatever, but if a motherfucker shows you that you can't walk away, dude, I'm just going to get as violent as possible, as quick as possible, and I'm going to inflict as much damage as I can with no warning, and then I'm just going to leave it alone.
From Bunny to Assassin00:17:40
I'm going to bounce.
You know what I'm saying?
That's how you got to deal with situations like that.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, you know, I'm not a malicious person.
So a malicious person, they might do that and get you down and keep trying to fuck you up.
You know, that's like a malicious, evil person.
They get off on shit like that.
And there's a lot of people like that.
I've seen people like that.
But, you know, me, myself, I've learned if there's a situation like that, you just got to inflict as much damage as you can.
You don't let anybody know it's coming.
And then, like I say, then, you know, it's like the fight or flight.
A lot of times, if you do something real quick, you can, like, shock a person.
And then while they're shocked, you know, laying on the floor or their face is bloody, their nose is broken, then you just fucking, you know, out here you bounce.
I mean, in prison, obviously, you can't bounce.
There's a fishbowl, you know, but, you know, still, I went with the same premise in there.
Like when I was in there, if there was some type of beef, I would just handle it right there.
I didn't care where.
I didn't care if we're in the chow hall.
I didn't care if staff's around.
If you disrespect me or you did something, I would handle it right then and there.
I wouldn't ask any questions.
And then, you know, it's just better because then, like, if something, you know, because.
In there, like stuff, people that stuff festers and it'll be like a beef between two people and then it turns into this big thing, you know, with all these other people involved.
And then you might have to end up stabbing somebody or something.
Yeah.
It's messy fast.
Yeah.
So, you know, I've always, you know, I learned in there, you know, handle your business, handle it right there, you know, just do it quickly and get it over with.
You know what I'm saying?
And then, like I say, man, I've got to fight.
So, you know, like I say, it's not like I'm some tough dude.
I've fucking, you know, my nose been broken five times.
You know what I'm saying?
My shit got split right here.
My shit got split right here and my shit got split right here.
So, you know, I mean, if you fight, you're going to take some losses.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Nobody fucking.
You got to take your lumps.
Yeah, you know, whatever.
But, you know, you just keep it moving.
You don't make it too serious, you know, or you don't like, you know, just because somebody beat your ass, now you got to go fucking stab them.
I mean, that's fucking stupid.
Yeah.
You know?
So what are you doing now?
So now that you're out, you're working on a new project?
Yeah, so, you know, I started writing books in prison.
Yeah.
How many books did you write?
22.
22 books.
While you were locked up.
Yeah.
Wow.
Gangster books, all gangsters, nonfiction, true crime, mostly, African American gangsters.
You know, I wrote some prison stuff too, but yeah, I started a journalism career.
You know, I mean, that's basically I do true crime.
I do like prison gangs.
You know, I've done a lot of features for like Vice, Penthouse, a lot of foreign magazines, real crime in UK, you know, in Australia.
But all like prison gangs, mafia stuff, you know, like African American drug lords, you know, mostly like from the 80s, from the crack era, you know, kind of the ones that were lionized.
In the, you know, the annals of hip hop lore, you know, like especially gangster rap, like in the mid 90s.
So, I mean, I was actually locked out with a lot of these dudes, but I didn't, I was just like when I was in prison, right?
I was like, I started taking college classes, you know, and when you take college classes in there, I was taking correspondence mostly.
And you can go two routes it's like business, administration, or kind of like writing.
You know, that's the only thing that's offered.
It's real limited.
So, um, I was just trying to do something for my future, you know.
So I started taking college classes.
I got an AA degree.
I got a BA degree.
And I got a master's degree.
Wow.
You know, and what did you get a master's degree in?
Humanities.
Okay.
So all my stuff's like liberal arts, humanities.
And like I said, I didn't, this for me, it was like a 17 year process.
You know, I didn't, not like, you know, it's not the typical college, you know, I got these degrees over 17 years.
I started in 93.
I got my master's degree in 2010.
You know, I was taking like, You know, sometimes like nine, 12 credits a year because it's correspondence courses.
So you got like nine months to do them.
You know, so I focused really heavily on the writing.
And then I started writing these stories.
You know, I was always real athletic.
I played a lot of sports.
A lot of times I'd be the only white dude, you know, running ball with all the black dudes.
I'd be the only white dude playing soccer with all the Mexicans.
You know, so that's kind of how I did my time.
You know, I played sports.
I did college classes.
You know, I worked out.
And then after I was in about six or seven years, I started thinking.
You know, like, what can I do for my future?
You know, so I started writing.
You know, I started writing these stories.
You know, I started writing these books.
And, I mean, literally, like, I was like the white dude in prison that was writing books about the African American gangsters.
So, you know, think about that just on the face of it after everything I've already described to you.
You know, just to tell you, you know, because I had relationships with Jews because I played sports and I played ball with them.
But, you know, after I'd been in a while, they knew what type of dude I was in.
And, you know, I started writing these books, you know, and, uh, You know, when you write books in there, it's like I always tell people, like you hear people in the media all the time where they write books and, you know, they're, oh, they misquoted me.
Like you can't afford to misquote anybody in there, especially if you're a white dude writing books about African-American dudes.
I mean, you could just imagine.
Yeah, it's not going to look good.
You could just imagine.
But, you know, but I walked that path.
You know, I navigated that path.
You know, I got that respect.
And really, the books I wrote, were books that I wanted to read.
You know what I'm saying?
Because when I first got locked up, I was locked up on the East Coast for a lot of mafia dudes.
So I fucking read all the mafia books.
I was locked up with a lot of Colombian cocaine cartel dudes.
I read all the Colombian cocaine cartel dudes.
And then like in the mid 90s when like the gangster rap is like jumping off, you know, and I'm playing ball with a lot of these dudes.
And, you know, I'm a hip hop kid too.
You know, I grew up in the 80s.
So, you know, that's when hip hop started.
So, you know, I was around, you know, I've been a hip hop fan since 1983 when it first came out, you know, or when I first learned about it.
But I would watch, you know, I'd be one of the only white dudes like watching, you know, like these gangster rap videos.
And I would hear the dudes, you know, they would like talk about these dudes, you know, the rappers.
And then the guys like from New York or the guys from that area, they would start talking about them.
And I'd be like, you know, I was like intrigued.
And, you know, so I was like looking for books.
You know, I'm calling my mom and my girl.
I'm like, order me books.
And they were like, there's no books.
And then, you know, I'd ask about these guys more, like these street legends, you know, from the hood.
And they'd be like, oh, yeah, that dude's on B Block.
And I'd be like, what?
So that's how I first started writing because I started going to these guys and I started saying, hey, man, like, let me tell your story.
Yeah.
And let me interview you, you know.
And so all this, it was, I wrote books that I wanted to read, but at the same time, I was looking for a future for myself.
You know, in my end goal, I knew I was getting out.
I mean, I had 25 years, but, you know, I was young.
I was 22.
So I knew I was getting out.
I knew I had a future.
It wasn't like I had a life, you know, or it wasn't like I was.
Went in when I was 40 or 50 and had 30 years, you know, I knew I was getting out.
I'd still, you know, have my health, i'd still, you know, be young enough to have a career, you know.
So um, my end game, my end game the whole time, was film, you know, I mean, I wanted to make film.
I just couldn't make film because I was in prison.
You know what i'm saying.
So I wrote books, you know, and I wrote books.
You know, I always think my writing has always kind of been on the cutting edge, but I also think my writing too it um, It's changed because, like, when I first started writing, I was taking these African American gangsters and I was writing about them, like, you know, like Billy The Kid, Jesse James, type figures, you know.
And then as I got older and I matured more and I kind of saw how the system was, you know, kind of a lot of some of the stuff we've talked about, you know, my views on the system and the war on drugs and law enforcement and, you know, the, uh, You know, criminal judiciary system or whatnot, I started seeing things different.
So my writing kind of changed to more like advocacy type of stuff, you know, from this, you know, romanticizing or glorifying, you know, gangsterism.
So, you know, but I think everybody, you know, as you get older, you can kind of change and you start to see things different.
And maybe, you know, what was cool to you at 25 might not be cool to you at 40.
So, you know, my writing kind of changed, but like still the whole time, man.
I'm writing these books and in my head I'm like man, I'm gonna, when I get out, I'm gonna make film, I'm gonna do film.
This is what I want to do because to me, as a writer, film is like like that's like the ultimate evolution.
You know, as a writer, that's like the ultimate end game, like you know, if you're a writer, you know to to actually become like a director of, like a film and shape this visual thing, because visual stuff just has such a much bigger impact, you know, than written words.
You know, I mean more people are gonna watch movie or documentary, they're gonna read a book.
I mean that's just a given.
You know what I'm saying.
I mean, because it's shorter.
It doesn't take as long.
You know, people don't have attention spans or whatever.
So, yeah, I got out in 2015.
I had all these books.
I started the publishing house, Guerrilla Convict, while I was in prison.
I became like an, you know, basically, I was doing columns for Vice, you know, like all in the early 2000s.
I had a column called I'm Busted, you know, about prison stuff.
I was writing for all these other places.
And yeah, just kind of built.
And then when I got out, you know, I had this idea.
I was like, man, I want to make films.
So I actually went to this foray for almost like five years where I became like this national true crime journalist.
You know, just because, I mean, they're just paying me good money.
So I was just running with it.
You know, like right out of prison, I was making pretty good money and they were flying me all these different places.
Like, dude, like, you know, when Apple has like those big unveiling events?
Yeah.
I've been flown to those twice.
Just because I was like a national journalist for Vice.
You know, like I've covered like Sundance.
You know, I've like covered all these fucking things.
Vice pay you pretty good?
Yeah, yeah, they pay pretty good.
Do they?
What do they pay if you don't want me asking?
I get like, I was getting like, $500 for like 1,200 words.
Oh, really?
Back in the 2000s?
Early 2000s?
No, I didn't get out until 2015.
Oh, this was after you got out?
Yeah.
No, back when I was in prison, I was getting paid like $350.
Oh, okay.
$350 for about $900, 1,000 words.
That was like my column, I was getting $350.
Okay.
So, you know, I was getting like $350 a month for a monthly column.
Like, you get $350 in prison, you kind of live like a king.
Yeah, you're doing good.
Yeah.
So, you know, but then I got out.
It's crazy to hear all those stories about those vice reporters and producers that don't make shit.
Yeah, well, I'm saying, I mean, before they sold out in the big scheme of things, I mean, you know, $350 to $500 a piece is kind of chump change, you know, and especially, you know, Vice is notorious for being low budgeted on film stuff, you know, like where something like AE or history might have like a $250,000 budget for like, you know, like something like I was a teenage felon, you know,
the budget might be like, like on an AE or history, it might be like a couple hundred thousand, like.
Those budgets were like private.
Well, their whole thing is they're a cool company.
They were, well, back in the day, maybe still a little bit now, they were cool.
So people wanted to work for them for free.
Like, it looks cool if you had vice on your resume so they could pay you nothing.
Well, plus what they do, I think a lot of industry stuff does that.
I mean, they get young kids when they come out of college when they can pay them nothing before they prove themselves.
Right.
You know what I'm saying?
And pay them.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, pay them $35,000 a year to work 10 hours a day.
Mm hmm.
I mean, in the media industry.
So, I mean, I think, I mean, it's a little bit of exploitation, but I mean, I guess that's capitalism, you know, especially in the media industry.
Yeah.
But it's better than college, too, honestly, when you do that.
When you learn so much more when you actually go to work for a real company than you do when you're in college.
You're like, what the fuck was I doing in college this whole time?
I mean, dude, I wrote stuff for free while I was in prison.
I mean, dude, I got a ton of stuff that's never even been published, like while I was learning how to write, crafting my trade.
So, I mean, you know, if you got a passion for something, you can get paid for it.
It's all good.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, but yeah, I mean, it could be an exploitive angle, too, you know.
I mean, you should always pay people what they, you know, are worth or what they deserve.
But, yeah, I got out.
I had the goal to make film.
I actually, right when I got out, I made this little short series.
It's called Easter Bunny Assassin.
Like, it's on YouTube.
You know, it never really took off.
I think maybe it got like, you know, 20,000, 30,000 views now.
But I made that, like, right.
It's like a little fictional thing.
I had, like, this little character called the Easter Bunny Assassin, you know, like a dude in a James Bond outfit with a bunny head.
And he was going around, like, whacking people.
And, like, other.
Holiday crime figures, you know, like he whacked Santa Claus, Santa Claus crack dealer.
There was Jesus Christ Junkie, you know, and Tooth Fairy Mafia Don.
So, this was like a little kind of thing that I envisioned in prison.
And I got out.
And that was kind of how I learned.
That was like my first foray into film.
I just got like some, you know, I convinced some local college students that were, you know, in film school.
I'm like, hey, let's go shoot this.
You know, and I bought some cameras and bought some equipment.
And they were like, fuck it, let's do it.
So that was, yeah.
That was kind of almost like my training, my first training.
But then.
It's on YouTube now?
Yeah, it's on YouTube.
You can watch it.
Easter Bunny Assassin?
Yeah, Easter Bunny Assassin.
We'll have to check that out.
It's kind of like some low budget gorilla.
Yeah.
We made the whole thing for like $2,000.
That was just like the food and the batteries for the camera.
For sure.
And the media.
But then, you know, I really got lucky when I got involved with White Boy.
You know, the documentary is on Netflix now that I wrote and produced.
I interviewed this director, Sean Reck.
He did this film called Murder in the Park.
It was on Showtime.
You know, it was about a wrongful conviction.
And Sean Wreck had actually cut his teeth.
He did like 200 Crime Stopper shows for all the networks.
And then, you know, this is like 2000, whatever, 16 when I first came into contact with him, like right when true crime is like blowing up, right after, you know, making a murder.
So he does this, A Murder in the Park.
It's on Showtime.
It gets named, Time magazine names it like top 15, you know, true crime documentary for the year.
So I interviewed him.
For Vice, and actually, for whatever reason, Vice ended up killing the piece, so the piece never ran.
But I struck up a relationship with him, and he had just finished that film, and he was actually looking, you know, for his second film.
So we started talking, and he found out about my background.
You know, he was a true crime dude, so, you know, mostly a lot of people that are into true crime, they're going to like my backstory.
You know what I'm saying?
So we started talking, and he was also a.
You know, he was amazed at all the work, all the writing I'd done.
He was like, whoa, man, that's crazy.
You did 21 years and you did all this stuff.
So he flew me up to Cleveland.
And he basically, he's like, man, you know, because I told him, you know, I wasn't shy.
I told him I wanted to make film.
You know, I told him I did that little Easter Bunny assassin thing for what it was worth.
But I said, you know, I wanted to make docs.
I saw myself, you know, doing true crime and eventually features and stuff like that.
So he flew me up there and we started talking about ideas.
You know, like he was like, well, what ideas you have?
So I was throwing different ideas at him, you know, about like some prison related stuff.
Or, you know, I think at this time I was like on really this exposing the prison thing, you know, because I was just out.
So I wanted to do this documentary that exposed all the evils of the prison industry.
So that was like my big thing that I was pitching to him.
But he was kind of like, well, I don't know.
And then, you know, and then I just casually mentioned, you know, that I'd wrote all these articles on the guy, White Boy Rick, for vice, you know, for trying to get him out, saying that he should be out.
And, um, That struck his interest because he knew that they had this Hollywood movie with Matthew McConaughey that was just going into production called White Boy Rick, you know, about the same story.
So he found out I knew White Boy.
You know, he found out, you know, I had the foundations of the story from these articles, you know, I'd written for like The Fix and Vice and Vice News.
So he was basically like, you know, let's do this, you know.
And I kind of made a deal with him.
I was like, look, I go, I want you to.
Basically, you know, mentor me on this film, you know, because I knew how to tell a story.
You know, I wrote books, but I didn't know how to make a film.
I didn't know the nuts and bolts, you know, how everything went.
Top 10 Docs and the Pandemic00:07:15
And when I walked in this dude's office too, I saw he had nine Emmys, you know, in his office.
Not national, but regional Emmys that he'd won for all those Crime Stopper shows, all like Ohio Emmys, you know.
And I was like, okay, this dude must know what the fuck he's doing.
So, you know, we made a deal and he said, you know, so he, all the shoots, like he would fly me in, you know, he would involve me in the editing process.
And really, you know, he taught me, he taught me, you know, how to make a film, you know, a documentary film.
And this, I mean, this dude is a really good filmmaker.
So we made White Boy.
You know I, I wrote and produced that and I learned from him.
I appear in that too, you know, as a talking head and uh, that was like kind of my initial foray into film and that actually came out.
Man, that actually came out on stars like around 2018 really yeah, and it was weird because I knew it was a real good movie.
I knew this movie, it was this crazy story, but I, I don't know, it never kind of took off and I don't.
Maybe it was because when the the The White Boy Rick Hollywood movie came out, I think it kind of bombed Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So maybe, you know, just whatever the circumstances.
Nobody had an interest in it.
Yeah.
And our doc kind of came out around the same time.
So maybe we got buried because of that movie and it bombed.
So nobody had an interest.
So we were actually on stars for like almost like two years.
And, you know, people knew it was cool.
I had a documentary on stars, but it was, you know, I had other projects that, you know, I wanted to get off, but I wasn't getting any interest.
You know, nobody was interested in funding any of my projects.
And then, yeah, and then like crazy shit happened.
Like, you know, the pandemic.
You know, the riots, you know, the Black Lives Matters going national, people talking about, you know, police brutality and police corruption all over the world.
You know, I just think the pandemic really slowed everything down in this country, you know, because before, I think when it first came out, like 2018, it's like just a rat race.
Everybody's trying to get money, capitalism.
They're not really, I don't think people were open or receptive to the story that we show in White Boy Rick because the level of corruptions are like so fucking crazy.
I don't think people believed it.
So they just dismissed it.
But then, you know, after the pandemic and everything that happened, you know, that I just mentioned through the pandemic and, you know, the last couple years of Trump, which were pretty chaotic.
And like I say, I'm not pro Trump or, you know, against Trump.
You know, really, I don't like Biden.
Biden is the one who built all the fucking prisons, you know, him and Clinton.
But, you know, I'm not, I try not to, you know, get politically involved.
But I mean, I think anybody would say the last two years of Trump were, uh, Pretty chaotic in this country, yeah.
You know, at least in the media, I don't know, but um, so I think all those things that happened that I just described kind of made people more receptive to what white boys about and the level of police corruption that we're talking about.
So then when it went on Netflix, you know, it went off stars, and we signed a new streaming deal with Netflix, and it went on Netflix in April, you know, right at the end of the pandemic.
I don't know, maybe the pandemic is still going April of this year, yeah.
And yeah, dude, it went on there and it was like it was a brand new movie, dude.
It blew up.
It was like the first two weeks it was on, it was like top 10.
Really?
And it wasn't like top 10 documentaries.
It was like top 10 on the whole site for like movies, series, everything.
For two weeks straight, right?
And then, like they said in April and May, like it had 20 million views, man.
Like it just fucking exploded.
So.
I don't know.
Weird how things happen, because everything that's happening to me now, like film wise, I was ready for this to happen, like in 2018.
I really thought it was gonna happen in 2018 but for whatever reason it didn't happen.
But um, you know, so I had, like this whatever, like almost three year fucking delay of my fucking film career, not to say I was still trying to make shit happen.
But um, now it's hard to make shit happen in that, in that whole world, the whole film industry.
Yeah, I mean it is.
I know i've been battling man, i've been trying to make shit happen.
But uh, you know now, since I got the recognition from White BOY and White BOY BLEW UP, it's just made people are way more receptive to my ideas because, um, I tell people, I equate it to, like you know, like when the NEW England Patriots win the Super Bowl, all right, everybody knows Tom Brady's like the main dude, right?
But then you see like all the support players sign these big contracts with other teams, right?
So it's like the same, like, white boy, like I'm not the main person on white boy, Sean Reck was the main person on white boy, you know, the editor Brandon Kemmer, he was the second main person on white boy, you know.
So, if anything.
And there's this other producer, Scott Bernstein.
So maybe me and him might be like the third, fourth, you know, fourth, third, whatever, you know.
So, you know, I contributed to it, you know, and I helped shaped it.
And, you know, the story, the origin came to me.
The access came from me, you know.
But, you know, I was a supporting player on this documentary.
I'm not going to steal credit from anybody else.
You know what I'm saying?
They deserve their credit for making a real good film.
But, you know, I helped to make this film.
I was a part of it.
So it's now like.
I got that recognition.
And so it's like people think, you know, I'm a part of that magic.
So maybe I have that magic.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So it's weird because I always tell people, like, I'm the same person.
Like, I haven't really changed, but it's like the way people look at me has changed because of that film getting 20 million views in two months on Netflix.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
It was weird because I started going to Sundance about four years ago.
And, um, I started meeting some people in Sundance and I met all these like amazing talented filmmakers and they got their films in Sundance and they got their films in Cairns and Tribeca and SWSX and I'm just like, I'm like, fuck, like this is what I want to do, you know?
And White Boy blew up and like none of these dudes have like a top 10 film on Netflix and they're like calling me, they're asking me like, what's the secret?
How did I do it?
And I'm like, you know, it's just, it was like this shift.
You know, so it's weird, man.
I mean, I'm still dealing with it now, you know, I mean, I'm getting used to it, but, you know, so I've got a funding for a lot of my different projects.
So I got this film, Nightlife.
It's about the violence in North City, you know, that's about to come out.
You know, I follow this dude around North City, like where the worst parts of St. Louis.
We followed him around with cameras for three years.
He's basically a violence interrupter.
He's a preacher named Reverend Kenneth McCoy.
We followed him around from like 10 p.m. to 1 a.m. in the morning on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights.
Like with all the drug addicts, the pimps, the prostitutes, the drug dealers, the gangbangers, the homeless people.
Humboldt County's Underground Chemists00:04:09
You know, that's what he does.
He administers to these people.
You know, these are his flock.
You know, he takes out sandwiches.
So I followed him.
I followed him with a three camera team.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
It was crazy.
Like gunshots, people threatened to steal our cameras and smash our cameras and threaten us.
All types of crazy shit.
I bet that was wild.
Yeah, it was wild.
So.
That doc's almost ready.
Hell yeah.
Where are you going to release that documentary?
Well, I just took it to a sales agent and I'm thinking maybe a film festival too.
So, you know, so yeah, I don't, I don't have, you know, I always tell people like, you hear a lot of people say, oh, it's going to be on Netflix.
I mean, unless you have some, unless you're like Martin Scorsese and you have like some overall deal with Netflix, you can't say where the shit's going to end up.
You know, I do shit independently.
You know what I'm saying?
I work with private investors.
They give me money and I do stuff on spec.
When then I finish it, then I go to a sales agent and they try to sell it.
Right.
You know, so that's where I'm at right now.
So I got that nightlife project.
I got this project I'm calling, it's an LSD trade project.
I'm calling it the psychedelic revolution right now.
It's about the history of the LSD trade, you know, the underground chemists, you know, how they locked up and targeted all the people for LSD like myself in the 80s and 90s and put us in prison for a long time.
And how now we've almost gone 360 and they're talking about legalizing psychedelics and decriminalizing it.
So that's what that, that's my LSD doc I'm working on.
I got a Humboldt County doc I'm working on.
You know, it's, Tells the history of Humboldt County and the Emerald Triangle, and how these people up in the mountains of Northern California became known for growing the best marijuana in the world.
And at one time in the 80s and 90s, they supplied 60% of the domestic product in the U.S. You know, then it tells how, like, they were terrorized, and where they lived was basically militarized with like helicopters and the military going in, you know, and arresting them and throwing them in jail and, you know, cutting down their crops.
And then, you know, it It goes full circle to like, you know, I was locked up with some of these guys from Humboldt County, and now they're out now and they have legal farms, you know.
Yeah, so you're crazy.
Yeah, so you think it's all good, you know, these guys are legal now, but now, you know, with big ag and big pharma coming in, the marijuana game in California, you know, a lot of these guys are small farmers, you know, that these guys are up in the mountains, they're small farms, you know, they only got, you know, so many spots.
And like down in Southern California, you know, in Santa Rosa, they have these big greenhouses, you know, with these massive operations.
And these guys are struggling.
So, you know, that's what that film is about.
It's about the history of Humboldt County.
It's about the Emerald Triangle.
It's about why they grow the best marijuana in the world, why they should be considered like the Napa Valley of cannabis.
But, you know, it's also about the problems that they're facing right now in the market in California and how a lot of these farmers, like the cops couldn't make them stop growing weed.
The war on drugs couldn't make them stop growing weed.
You know, the droughts and the fires couldn't make them start.
Growing weed.
But now a lot of them might have to stop growing weed, they might give up because of, you know, big AG, because they're taking over the market and they're driving the price down.
Yeah, they can't make no money.
So that's my Humboldt County doc.
So that's.
I got my LSD doc, I got my cannabis doc, I got an ecstasy doc.
That is um, it's about this crew out of Atlanta called the South SIDE BOYS that were like these huge l are these huge ecstasy suppliers.
They were importing from Amsterdam, they were supplying, like you know, all Atlanta, all the southwest, down here in Florida.
One of their big hubs was Panama City and one of their, one of their stomping grounds was uh, the club uh, the club, uh the, the club, La Villa, you know, which is famous club in Panama City.
It's like the world's biggest nightclub.
It's closed now.
It's like, it's like where they had uh, you know, like MTV used to film there and a lot of the, the WCW, Nitro and stuff like that, and I think like girls gone wild.
Atlanta's South Side Boys00:03:52
But um, so i'm doing that on the, that ecstasy ring called the South SIDE, the South SIDE BOYS.
And then uh, I'm working on this other project.
It's called Dope Men.
It's basically about America's first drug cartel, and it goes all the way back to the 20s, and it looks at, like, you know, when the mafia started the international global drug trade.
You know, because in pop culture, you know, in a lot of movies, there's this thing, like, the mafia says, like, oh, like, we don't fuck with heroin.
But, I mean, they were the first drug cartel.
You know, heroin has been their biggest moneymaker since, you know, before prohibition ended.
So I got that story, too.
So that goes all the way back.
So that's kind of like, uh, you know the projects.
I'm hoping to get all these projects out like within the next uh, 12 to 18 months.
God damn Seth, that's a lot of projects.
Hey, you're on it man, you are a busy dude.
I don't know if we're ever going to find an answer to this uh, the prison industrial complex in this country but uh, if anyone can shine light on it, it's probably you.
Yeah, I don't know man, I just so.
I, my biggest thing now is um, let all the nonviolent weed people out, man.
I mean, they're still like, from the numbers i've read, there's still like 40,000 people locked up Nonviolent, for cannabis.
Let them out, man.
You know what I'm saying?
You got people making millions of dollars, man.
Yeah.
You know, so let these people out.
Like I said, I've been in prison.
Any reasonable person will agree there's people in prison that belong in prison.
And like I say, I don't hate law enforcement.
You know, that's their job.
Lock up those violent people.
They don't deserve to be out here.
If you, you know, whatever, sometimes you might do something violent and, you know, you're learning your lesson and, you know, you're okay and you assimilate society.
But these people that are repeat violent offenders, put them in prison, man.
That's where they deserve, man.
This is like fucking polite society.
You shouldn't have to be walking around, you know, thinking someone's going to threaten you or fucking whip you with a gun or shoot you or take your shit.
You know what I'm saying?
Right.
That's not what this world is about.
That's not what America is about.
But, you know, so those people belong in prison.
But, you know, all these nonviolent drug offenders, especially the marijuana guys, I mean, let them out, man.
Lock up the serial killers.
Lock up the chomos.
Yeah, man.
Legalize all drugs.
And we'll all be fine.
I mean, shit, you know what I'm saying?
Drugs is just a commodity, man.
Yeah.
Cool, man.
Well, let everybody know where they can find your projects, your work, whatever you're working on now online.
Yeah.
Well, I got my website, guerrillaconvict.com.
I also got SethFerrante.com.
And, like, I'm on social media, man.
I'm on Instagram.
I'm on Facebook.
I'm on Twitter.
So I post about a lot of my stuff.
Like, when I do my different shoots, you know, I post, like, behind-the-scenes photos.
You know, I'm actually going to be in Humboldt.
Coming up on the 11th of September, I'm doing a two week shoot there.
I'll be there from the 11th to the 26th on a 10 day shoot.
So I'll be posting a lot of stuff.
If you like cannabis, if you like marijuana, follow me on Instagram, Seth Ferrante, and you'll see all those images of the Emerald Triangle, like the mecca of marijuana, if that's your thing.
But also, I'll keep all my work current.
I got some other books coming out.
I got a new book coming out called Criminal Escapades.
Which is about a lot of articles I wrote on mafia guys, you know that I was locked up like famous mafioso, you know some other prison gang leaders and stuff like that It has like 20 chapters that's coming out on Guerrilla Convict my my published house and then I'm doing this other book that's gonna come out next spring called Thug Life the true story of hip-hop and organized crime It's on this boutique publisher called a hammer car You know they they mostly do they do a lot of boxing crime stuff,
New Books on Mafia and Hip-Hop00:02:15
but I'm like one of their first forays into hip-hop So it's actually to me, this book is really special because it's going to be my first hardback.
Cool, man.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, and hopefully, I've been talking to the publisher, but hopefully, I want to see it.
I want to see it in the airport, man.
I want to walk through the airport.
Every time I travel a lot now, and every time I walk through the airport, I just want to see my fucking book.
Hell yeah.
To me, as a writer, you know, books, that's like the ultimate.
When you see your fucking book in the airport, you walk by and see it right there.
Yeah.
I'd be like, yes.
Hell yeah.
Take pictures for Instagram.
Cool, man.
I did for the gram.
Yep.
Hey, but look.
I appreciate you doing this.
Yeah.
No, thanks for having me, man.
Look, I actually, I had some friends in St. Louis that listen to you guys all the time.
And right, and they knew, you know, like when my media profile was kind of ticking up, you know, with White Boy.
And, you know, I'd done a lot of different podcasts, but, you know, smaller podcasts and stuff like that.
And then, you know, when my profile started kind of ticking up, they actually told me, they're like, man, you need to go on Concrete.
They're like, you need to go on Concrete Podcast.
I'm like, what the fuck is Concrete?
They're like, that's like the fucking biggest true crime fucking podcast, man.
They're like, you need to go on, you know, and I had like several of my friends in St. Louis, like, they listen to you guys religiously.
And then, so I already knew Concrete, but.
I didn't know how to get in touch with you guys.
And then it was weird.
You know, your producer, Tyler, he heard me.
I was doing something on Clubhouse.
Oh, yeah.
And he just happened to, like, you know, chime in and caught me.
That's hilarious.
Yeah, and we started talking and, like, hooked up.
It's just weird how shit happens.
Yeah, he's got a problem with Clubhouse.
He's on there hard.
Yeah.
No, but that's how he found me, you know?
But it was weird because it was, like, right before he reached out to me, just like, two weeks before.