All Episodes
Jan. 16, 2026 - The Culture War - Tim Pool
02:08:40
DEBATE: Islam Is TAKING OVER the West, America Is A CHRISTIAN NATION w/ Alex Stein, Sulaiman Ahmed, Shabbos Kestenbaum, Bo French

BUY CAST BREW COFFEE TO SUPPORT THE SHOW - https://castbrew.com/ Become A Member And Protect Our Work at http://www.timcast.com Host: Alex Stein  @AlexStein99  (everywhere) Guests: Sulaiman Ahmed @ShaykhSulaiman (X) Shabbos Kestenbaum @ShabbosK (X) Bo French @BoFrenchTX (everywhere) My Second Channel - https://www.youtube.com/timcastnews Podcast Channel - https://www.youtube.com/TimcastIRL

Participants
Main
a
alex stein
09:42
b
bo french
14:19
s
shabbos kestenbaum
54:09
s
sulaiman ahmed
46:50
Appearances
t
tim pool
01:21
|

Speaker Time Text
alex stein
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Culture War.
We got a great debate.
You know what it is, Islam, baby.
So let me introduce all of our guests.
We got the one, the only Shabbos Kestenbaum here.
You know, he is not a huge fan of Islam.
And then also, sitting to my left, we got Bo French.
He's running for Railroad Commissioner of Texas.
Everybody, go support him in that.
And then we got the freaking heel of this whole damn show.
We got the villain that is chilling.
You know him.
You love him.
Suleiman Amad.
Did I pronounce your last name right?
unidentified
You got it right.
alex stein
Okay, good.
All right.
With that being said, folks, today we're going to talk about a topic that is, I guess it can, you know, it can make you feel some sort of way, to say the least.
So I really encourage everybody that's watching to participate in the chat.
We want to get your opinion.
And with that being said, who wants to kind of start this thing off?
Suleiman, do you want to defend Islam?
Do you want to start off by defending Islam?
Because I would say that us three, you know, we probably are not the biggest fans of it.
So really?
sulaiman ahmed
Well, you as well.
alex stein
I mean, a little bit.
I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm a little more in the middle.
shabbos kestenbaum
He does have a Jewish last name, so.
alex stein
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Actually, before we start this show, you know, we got to throw it to Tim Cass, Tim Poole, selling you something.
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alex stein
You heard Tim, go buy some bearskin.
Okay, so let's get back to the debate.
Suleiman, you know, me personally, I'm America first.
I do not like America having to be the world police.
And, you know, personally, I don't really support a regime change necessarily in Iran.
But at the exact same time, I was just casted in Roseanne's new upcoming TV show.
And she said that I would have a bigger part if I said that we should nuke Iran.
So I have changed my opinion on it a little bit, but that's how they get you, Stein.
That is how they get me, and they got me.
And you know what?
As a thespian myself, the opportunity was too good to pass up.
But on a serious note, Islam.
I know that, you know, Chavez is obviously against it.
I know Bo's against it.
Some aspects of it I'm against.
But I would argue that it's not a bunch of Akbar terrorists like they try to act like on TV.
So I guess with that being said, let's just kind of open it up, Suleiman.
Why do people, I guess, have this negative connotation of Islam?
Is that just kind of brainwashing from the American media from the 9-11 days?
Or why do people have this kind of visceral hatred for Islam?
sulaiman ahmed
Yeah, that's a very good question.
I mean, from my perspective, I believe the reason is, as you mentioned, it's because of the media and it's the propagation of hatred where Islam is isolated.
And I do believe that because a lot of the media is very much pro-Israel, pro-Zionist.
So their perspective is when you demonize Islam, you manufacture consent.
So you see them as the other.
You're then able to manufacture that consent and hatred against Muslims.
So then you can then bomb the Middle East.
A good example of that is a few months ago, the Israeli Foreign Ministry did a kind of study and polling.
And what they found was that the sentiment against Israel is just so high.
Even the United States of America, right now, the majority of people now do not see Israel in a positive light.
And what they found was that the best way to redirect that negativity was to direct negativity against Muslims.
So I believe that a lot of that is manufactured.
Now, in terms of overall, my view is this.
Look, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, all of them, when you look at it from a religious perspective, are similar.
And what I mean by that is whatever arguments one, generally speaking, whatever arguments one makes about Islam's compatibility with the West, compatibility with the United States of America, those things or the specific issues which one mentioned, you find them in Judaism, you find them in Christianity, and you find them in Islam.
And therefore, this hyper focus on Islam, in my view, is intentional.
shabbos kestenbaum
Can I jump in real quick, please?
So first of all, it's not that I have a problem with Islam as a theological doctrine or as a religion, not at all.
I think what I have a problem with and what most Americans have a problem with is radical Islam.
And when you talk about Israel or Zionism, which I'm shocked that it made it in that quickly in this debate, Jesus Christ.
It's always bad.
unidentified
It's always bad.
shabbos kestenbaum
We got to get to 7K.
But what I will say is, look, in 1801, the United States fought its very first war as a country, the Barbary Wars.
We actually fought it twice, 1801 to 1805, and then I think 1811 to 1815.
And we fought Islamists off the coast of Libya.
This is 140 years before Israel was even created as a state.
And Thomas Jefferson sends dignitaries to talk to the Islamists, like, why are you kidnapping U.S. merchants?
Why is it that you're kidnapping U.S. sailors?
And they said, well, you are the infidels, and we are commanded in our Quran.
Now, we can debate, is that a true interpretation or not?
But at the end of the day, who the hell cares if it's a true interpretation if Muslims are committing acts of violence through Islam?
So I have no problem with Islam as a doctrine.
What I do have a problem with is radical Islam.
And the last point I'll make and then I'll shut up.
And I think it's really important for people to get off.
alex stein
Don't shut up.
shabbos kestenbaum
Okay, fine.
Is there have been since 9-11, 58,000 Islamic terrorist attacks across the world.
There has not been a country with the exception of like four that have been immune from Islamic terrorist attacks.
Jews named Chabas Kestenbaum who wear kipas aren't going to blow you up on subways.
But unfortunately, a guy who walks into a New York City subway with a backpack and yells Allah Akbar, unfortunately, gives Islam a bad name.
We can talk about Nice France, 2017 Paris attacks, the reason TSA checks your shoes, the underwear bomber, New Orleans ISIS attack, Westminster, Boston Marathon, Manchester Arena, Pan Man Bonding, Fort Hood, Beltway Sniper, Bali, Murder of Lee Rigby, USS Coal bombing, London Bridge Attack, Madrid, Charlie Hebdo, San Baronino, U.S. Marines Beirut bombing, Little Rock Army, Chattanooga Military Base, Polt Nightclub, New York City ISIS trucker attack, the Boulder, Colorado firebombing, DC shooting.
These were literally all committed by radical Muslims.
I wish that wasn't true, but unfortunately it is true and we have to recognize that reality.
alex stein
Well, I want to make one point real quick, but let's get in.
But at the beginning of your rebuttal or whatever you want to call it, you did mention Libya.
And now Libya, I think, is a perfect example of why it's bad when America goes and destabilizes a country because Muammar Gaddafi, we destabilize them.
And now Libya is the only place where there's actual slavery.
shabbos kestenbaum
So first of all, that's not true.
Qatar has actual slavery as well.
alex stein
They import slavery like they did for free.
But they have slave trade.
They have slave auctions in Libya.
They do not have slavery.
shabbos kestenbaum
But doesn't that prove my point, though, that the only countries actually where slavery actually is legalized are Islamist countries.
I mean, it's a major problem.
Fact, the biggest slave traders in the world historically were not white Westerners in the United States or in England.
It were Muslim countries.
So there's a tremendous problem with slavery in Muslim countries today.
But I would agree with you.
I'm not a fan of regime change.
Libya, I think, could have been done differently.
Having said that, though, there was a popular uprising amongst Libyans in the same way today in Iran.
There's a popular uprising amongst the majority of Iranians.
But absolutely, I'm not in favor of regime change.
To be fair, I was four years old during the Iraq War, but I would have opposed it.
I think Iran is a totally different argument to make.
But in terms of the fundamental theological differences between Islam and the West, let's say, is Muhammad Nusarit.
He's a scholar of Islam in Chicago.
And he gave a speech just last month.
You can all Google it right now.
And he talks about that Islam is superior than all other religions and we must dominate American culture.
That's really bad.
And America is a Christian nation.
I'm saying this as an Orthodox Jew.
It's good for America to remain a Christian nation.
We should encourage way more people, especially Gen Z white men, to go to church and find Jesus and learn the New Testament.
But unfortunately, there's an increasing amount of Islamic radicals who don't believe in that.
bo french
What I would say is it's not like we have 1,400 years of history of Islam on the march, taking over countries, purging Christians and other non-believers.
And then you have just, thank God for social media, we have now in the United States, we have Imams here, clerics here who are openly talking about conquering America, making Islam, you know, bringing Islam into every single household.
I mean, it is, I would argue, radical Islam is a redundant term.
I think Islam is in and of itself radical.
I think the more true statement is that not all Muslims are Islamists.
And I think that's the bigger issue here: Islam is what we're talking about.
Islam is the problem.
Islam is taking over large swaths of America.
We've seen this huge influx in even just in Texas, right?
You think Texas is this place that's like the bastion of freedom and liberty in America.
And 300 mosques have been built recently.
These are like forward operating bases for the Islamist movement.
And I think most people are concerned about it, rightly so.
We see when they sort of bring this kind of third world low IQ mentality into communities, they take over, they get people on city councils, they elect people like Elon Omar to Congress.
There's certainly tons of fraud around that.
There's lots of money laundering.
Even in Texas, we had a big trial, what is that, 20 years ago now, where they were found all of this money being laundered back to terrorist organizations.
So, I mean, this is a problem that is growing in America, and I think too many of our politicians have just ignored it.
I mean, how many of us remember when George Bush was like, Islam is a religion of peace?
But that's not what Islam says.
Islam specifically says convert, submit them, or kill them if they don't.
unidentified
Well, and I want to give a suitable minister, but real quick, I just want to say this point.
alex stein
You know, we talk about Hamas, you know, and they say, you know, Hamas is obviously nobody likes Hamas.
But if you're a 12-year-old and somebody blows up your dad, you don't have a dad, wouldn't that radicalize you to join Hamas?
I mean, I think it would if I was in that situation.
bo french
Okay, that's fine.
But why are we importing them here?
I care less about what happens over there.
I mean, it's a tragedy, and I feel bad for the people.
I mean, I love people.
I don't want innocent people to suffer and all of it.
I mean, obviously.
But we're talking about America, right?
The last bastion of freedom in the world.
Are we going to protect America and our culture?
To your point, it is a Christian nation.
That doesn't mean that everybody in America has to be a Christian.
And I don't think the founders explicitly said that everyone had to be a Christian, but they certainly agreed that we had the freedom to be Christian, and the entire Constitution was written because they agreed that this was the culture that we wanted in America.
shabbos kestenbaum
Can I piggyback real quick?
And then I promise I'll shut up.
In terms of the specifics of the question, first of all, I agree with you.
The United States has no obligation to import people who objectively do not share our culture, do not share our values.
So that's first and foremost.
In terms of the practicalities, if you're this 12-year-old boy in Gaza and your dad is a Hamas terrorist and he's blown up by Israel, aren't you going to become Hamas terrorist?
That logic has literally never been applied to any war ever fought in human civilization.
When we killed Nazi Germans, we didn't say, well, if you're a 12-year-old German and you just saw your dad who's an SS commander being shot to death, then you're going to become an SS man.
No, because we recognize that bad ideas and threats to the West must be eradicated.
The best way to ensure peace on earth is you so overwhelmingly kill the enemy combatants that they never have the military capabilities nor the ideology to try to pillage a sovereign country ever again.
So the best way to ensure peace on earth is overwhelming military dominance and re-education of the populace who unfortunately have been fed a died of political indoctrination.
That the best way to martyr yourself and to get into heaven is by killing innocent civilians.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay, let me respond.
There's been literally about 10 minutes and two people.
So just no, no, so let me go one at a time.
So in terms of like this claim that, oh, guess what?
When you build mosques, so first of all, I agree the United States of America is a Christian nation based on Christian values.
And so therefore, Judaism and Islam almost sits in a similar position in terms of being external to Christianity.
That being said, this claim that mosques are outposts is like completely ridiculous.
He also mentioned about Islam saying convert and kill.
That's not a doctrine within Islam.
The Quran quite explicitly says within the Quran there is freedom of religion.
Actually, it's, and the Quran is a lot more lenient in terms of apostasy compared to Christianity and Judaism, which has a lot more harsher punishment when it comes to apostasy.
Now, in terms of this claim about Muslims over taking over the United States of America, it's just one of the most ridiculous claims ever.
And the reason for it is because if you look at Muslims numerically, they're very low percentage in the United States of America.
When you look at Muslims in terms of key positions of power, they're in extreme minority.
You can see disproportionately Jewish people are actually in positions of power, whether it's in politics, whether it's in the media, whether it's in a large number of things.
And so to make this claim about Islam, it just isn't true in reality.
In terms of, I don't know who mentioned it, but someone mentioned about preachers stating things that are extreme.
So are there preachers who state extreme things?
Of course there is.
There's going to be extremists amongst all religions.
For example, anyone's on X, you always see, for example, Jewish priests, Jewish rabbi, sorry, who will be saying extreme things about Goyams and Gentiles and so on and so forth.
And those videos go viral.
And so you can take individual rabbis or imams or priests and say, look, this is the mainstream position.
But in reality, you can do that with any religion.
In terms of the, I think Shabbos mentioned it.
He mentioned about Islam has this idea of being superior.
That's not true.
Actually, in Islam, we have this position that all men are equal, irrespective of race, religion, or creed.
The Prophet, peace be upon him, his last sermon, talked about it doesn't matter what race you are, black, white, brown, it doesn't matter what religion you are, all men is equal.
Actually, it's in Judaism where this notion comes, where there is this superiority of a Jew compared to a Gentile or a Goyim or whoever you want to say.
So in reality, like that claim is false.
In terms of the Barbary Wars, so those pirates, they were within the Ottoman Empire, but they weren't, they were acting like pirates.
It wasn't, their basis wasn't based on the dictates of the actual empire.
They were acting almost without permission, without any regard.
And actually, they were reprimanded on that.
And again, look, historically, if you want to look at it historically, where has the biggest beef been?
Western society, Christianity, for thousands of years, the biggest problem actually has been Judaism.
If you look at it, they were thrown out of 109 countries thousands of times.
Many times Jews and Muslims made alliances.
If you remember, it was the Jews who opened up the doors during the Crusades and so on and so forth.
So this idea that basically, you know, Judaism and Christianity has been loggerheads with Islam is rewriting history because in reality, it was the other way around.
It was Judaism that had major issues with Christianity historically.
And when you say it's an issue of Islam, you need to specifically give dictates within Islam that hold that position.
The Quran is the word of God, right?
It's certain knowledge account to Muslims.
So we believe there's nothing in the Quran that could be wrong.
When one takes a hadith narration, those are probabilistic knowledge.
And therefore, that could be right or wrong.
So therefore, I presume he's going to pull out with a hadith and say, oh, guess what?
It says this in a hadith.
But hadith can never supplement the Quran.
The Quran is the word of God.
It says, there is, it literally says in the second chapter of the Quran, there is no compulsion in religion.
Whereas when you look at, and this is what my thesis is, that whatever you find in Islam, you'll find it in Judaism, you'll find it in Christianity.
And actually, the punishment in those religions are a lot more harsher.
I think I covered everything.
Oh, in terms of extremism.
So there's a lot more comments that I made.
unidentified
Apologies.
alex stein
One thing I will say, though, to be fair, you know, in the Old Testament, there are a lot of instances where people are told to be put to death for kind of, you know, innocuous reasons.
I mean, bro, if you do look at the Old Testament.
So I'm just saying, and that's, you know, spiritual doctrine.
There is some.
Yeah, I mean, I'm just, you know, calling balls and strikes.
bo french
Yeah, but as Christians, you know, we don't.
We have a new covenant, right?
That's what I'm saying.
I think it's the New Testament.
So the difference between the Bible and the Quran is that the later part of our Bible, things moderate dramatically when it comes to things like putting people to death and whatever.
sulaiman ahmed
So you're talking about the Torah.
shabbos kestenbaum
So let me defend, first of all, the Hebrew Bible, not the Old Testament.
It's fine.
sulaiman ahmed
We're trying to appropriate it.
shabbos kestenbaum
Yeah, exactly.
Don't Jew explain.
First of all, in terms of the Goyim thing, Goy literally just means nation.
So Jews are also Goyim.
So I know on Twitter, like that's red meat to the base.
sulaiman ahmed
I say Jew and Goyam.
shabbos kestenbaum
Sorry?
sulaiman ahmed
Is it Gentile or is that?
shabbos kestenbaum
Well, Gentile just means non-Jew, but that's not a biblical term.
That's just a sociological term.
alex stein
Being Jewish, you're not a chosen people.
shabbos kestenbaum
But chosen doesn't mean better.
And that's why Judaism is one of the things that you're saying.
Hang on, let me explain.
unidentified
Let me explain.
alex stein
Let me explain.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's not semantics at all.
There's literally, again, in the Hebrew Bible, you will not find at any point Jews saying that.
That's why when you said Jewish supremacy here, Jews believe we're better.
I mean, we literally don't.
If you want to be oppressed for 3,000 years, by all means, you're happy to convert to Judaism and circumcise your penis.
But I don't think most people want to do that thing.
We're one of the only religions that don't convert.
Not because we think we're better than you.
We just think you don't have to live a life in accordance with 613 Amendments.
I want to make this deal with seven Noahide laws, which anyone should do.
alex stein
Tony Docapal, the new CBS guy, got an adult circumcision.
shabbos kestenbaum
That's weird.
alex stein
Yeah, and that's really weird.
Sorry to go back to the point.
sulaiman ahmed
Is that how you got his promotion?
unidentified
Well, he very well said you must be circumcised as an adult.
alex stein
But I just want to say that.
shabbos kestenbaum
Although it's not like RFK also said men should be.
Oh, no, he said circumcision leads to like retardation or something.
But in terms of the specifics of the point, the parameters of this debate is not theological, right?
So I don't think it's worthwhile to talk about what the Quran says versus what the Hebrew Bible says because it's kind of irrelevant.
I've never read in full.
sulaiman ahmed
No, because he said Islam, that's why.
shabbos kestenbaum
Right.
So let me respond.
So that's why all I care about is the practicalities.
I care how I, as a Jewish person, as an American, will be impacted.
So whether the Quran or the Hadith is superior, it doesn't really matter.
All I care about is there is a disproportionate amount, unfortunately, of Muslims, not all Muslims, obviously, but of many Muslims who will use theological justifications to kill other people.
That's where I have my problems.
So if you want to talk about, well, the Hebrew Bible has verses that are definitely incompatible with Western civilization, one, I would disagree with you.
But even if that's the case, which it isn't, it's kind of irrelevant because as I said from the get-go, American Jews aren't committing terrorist attacks.
White Christian Americans are not committing terrorist attacks.
But unfortunately, we are seeing that way too many Muslims are coming into the United States who are not interested in assimilation, who are not interested in adopting Western democracy, and unfortunately take violence as a political or religious necessity.
That's where it becomes problematic.
And to deny that is to deny reality itself.
And the last point I want to make is I'm not entirely sure what you meant when you said Jews opened the door for the Crusaders because we have a lot of fast days, which again, you're more than welcome to be Jewish, but trust me, you don't want to be because like half the year, we're just abstaining from eating and drinking.
One of the fast days is when we fast over the Crusades because they were awful.
I mean, the communities of Mainz and worms across Europe were decimated by the Crusaders.
So the idea that we would open the door for the Crusaders is just divorced from reality.
We were butchered by the Crusaders.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm telling you you support the Muslims.
shabbos kestenbaum
Well, no, because under the Muslim rule, we were granted second-class citizens.
We were demis, and we paid a jizzy tax, which A, is not a great terminology for 21st century lexicon.
But we actually paid a tax as second-class citizens to our Muslim rulers.
So it was not all great living under the Muslims.
unidentified
No, no, no.
shabbos kestenbaum
The only time Jews ever had a peaceful coexistence is when we were living in our ancestral homeland, the land of Judea.
We are one of the only religious groups in the world that are actually named after the place we come from.
Jews come from Judea.
Arabs come from Arabia.
But you wouldn't really know that because the Arab colonization was one of the greatest colonization experiments in human history, which is why they're now all over the world.
They dominated Spain.
They dominated, they're trying to dominate the United States.
Jews aren't trying to expand territory.
As much as on Twitter, you'll talk about the Greater Israel Project.
It's not a thing.
In fact, we've given, I shouldn't say we, Israel has given more land away since its establishment in 1948 than any other country.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay.
bo french
I was hoping that we were going to have a debate in good faith here.
So just along those lines, let me clarify something you said.
What is the surah?
Is that in the Quran?
sulaiman ahmed
Yeah, it is.
bo french
Okay.
So the surah, the Quran, defines what an infidel is.
sulaiman ahmed
What does it define as?
bo french
And it says infidels are those that say God is the Christ, the Son of Mary.
That's Surah 5.17.
sulaiman ahmed
It doesn't say that.
bo french
And then it says, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.
That's Surah 9, 123.
And then it says, kill the disbelievers wherever they find them.
Surah 2, 191.
So in the Quran, it literally defines what an infidel is as a non-believer.
And then it says, kill them.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay, let me reboot that.
And then I'll go to you.
So I need to almost have double title.
unidentified
It's too early.
sulaiman ahmed
Both of me and him speak really fast as well.
No, it's both of us.
So in terms of what you said, so again, that's just fake news because in reality, the Quran actually has categories, right?
Infidel, or as you say, kafr, isn't for Muslims and Christians.
It's actually for people who are disbelievers, atheists, pagans.
The Christians and Jews are basically categorized in the Quran as Ahlul Kitab, the people of the book.
And there's a specific category for them.
For example, according to Muslims, you can marry people from the book.
You can eat from their food and so on and so forth.
So when you're making that definition, you just made it up.
alex stein
And Islam speaks higher of Jesus than Judaism.
shabbos kestenbaum
Can I kind of respond to that?
Judaism does not mention Jesus.
Okay, fun fact.
I'm happy to respond to any of the accusations.
There is no accusation.
They do think he's burning out.
No, he isn't.
alex stein
I want you to continue in that response.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's not a thing.
I'll respond.
alex stein
Okay, but they do think that Jesus was just some sort of magician and that his miracle magic and not no, we don't call him a magician.
shabbos kestenbaum
We don't talk about him.
And I think that might kind of upset non-Jews because they think we have this great conspiracy.
But I don't want to interrupt what you leave, but I'm happy to talk about what Jews believe in Jesus because he wasn't really a factor in our lives.
He was Jewish.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay, so in terms of, so I'll mention this point.
And the second verse, what was the second verse you mentioned?
The third one you mentioned, that is specifically Surah 9, verse 23 or 30, something, wherever it is.
That's specifically talking about in a time of war.
So in a time of war, what the issue was is at that time, the Muslims didn't want to fight because what happened was the pagans, because there was Muslims get paid, there was no Christians.
There was Muslims who came, actually, it was Christians who gave sanctuary to the Muslims at that time.
It was the Christian king of Abyssinia, who, when they went to find sanctuary, because the pagans were going to kill them, they read the verse, the Muslim view of Mary, because Muslims see view Mary as very positive.
And so when he read it, he was like, wow, this is amazing.
This is the same as the biblical view, unlike the view in Judaism, which in terms of Mary.
So that specifically is talking about when there was a war between the pagans and the non-Muslims, what was happening was they were, because they knew each other before, and then there became this kind of animosity because, you know, Muslims are pagans, the pagans were trying to eradicate the Muslims.
And so therefore, what it was is, look, they're fighting you, they're killing you in the battle.
So don't like stand back.
Don't be a pacifist.
You're gonna have to, you know, resort to fighting in battle, in war.
And it's specifically talking about wartime.
So, again, this is just like wrong.
It's just the kind of like misinterpretation of the Quran when he never talks about that.
bo french
We have 1,400 years of Islam committing war against its neighbors.
So, I think it's one continuous war.
Are you guys familiar with Tikiyah?
I think what we've just witnessed is the dishonesty of trying to frame Islam as something peaceful and not what it actually is.
But we actually have a track record that we can point to.
We actually have people, even in Texas where I live, we have mosques that are preaching this very thing, talking about how they're going to make everybody submit.
Isn't that what Islam means?
Submit?
sulaiman ahmed
It means submit to God, right?
Not submit, make people submit.
bo french
Islam's version of God.
sulaiman ahmed
To God, yeah, not to make people submit.
But in terms of what you said, no, but you didn't say taqiyya.
Maybe you're getting confused because you're a dishonest person in terms of the verses that you're putting in.
But what is taqiyah?
Taqiyyah is found in, not because I thought we're going to have a respectful conversation.
unidentified
We can get harsh law.
alex stein
We can get harsh law.
It does, you know, we are.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but taqiyya means when they say taqiyah, first of all, taqiyya is not found within Sunni Islam.
I'm a Sunni Muslim.
The claim is found within Shia Islam, even though I disagree that even Shia believe in that.
But I'm not an expert on Shia Islam.
But within Sunni Islam, Taqiyyah is not found.
So what's happened is you relayed verses and when your reverses were rebutted, you were like, oh, taqiyya, taqiyyah.
No, it's not.
You just came up with ridiculous arguments.
You perpetuate fake news and then you got debunked.
Now, in terms of your argument in terms of submitting 14 years of history, 1400 years of history has found many expansions, right?
I agree with him that Judaism hasn't expanded.
I believe when it came to Judaism after 1945, they moored no, I mean, after World War II, I mean, after the Holocaust and the World War II.
shabbos kestenbaum
I'm just talking about establishments.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm not talking about the state of Israel.
I'm talking about after the Holocaust, sure.
Because it finished in 1945, isn't it?
shabbos kestenbaum
World War II.
sulaiman ahmed
You're right.
What happened was that Jewish people found themselves in a situation where the mantra never again.
And I believe that what they did was they didn't expand physically because Judaism, unlike Christianity and Islam, although he can deny it, both of those religions evangelize.
Judaism doesn't evangelize Judaism.
What they did was they made sure that they expanded in terms of power and control as opposed to territorial dominance.
In terms of expansion over history, you talk about 1400 years of history, but actually, if you look at it, yes, there was Arab expansion.
There's no doubt about it, or Muslim expansion, whatever you want to call it, right?
There was definitely, right?
And I'm against that because I believe that, you know, I'm against like, I only believe in defensive war.
That being said, to make the argument that this never happened with Christianity or with anyone else, it did.
Like, look at, for example, North America, look at South America.
These weren't Christian countries.
Look at Australia.
Look at New Zealand.
So expansion has happened, of course, in the past.
Obviously, I don't believe that was part of Christianity.
I believe that these people expanded going against the faith, even though one may argue that these were very religious Protestant Christians.
And similarly with Islam, I believe that it happened, but I don't believe that it followed the edicts of Islam.
In terms of just the last point, because there's so many points that have been made, when you said that you don't find someone with a kippah blowing someone up or whatever it may be, the difference is, first of all, there is extremism, right?
There is extreme.
But when you say disproportionate, that's where I disagree.
There's 2 billion Muslims.
You have some extreme elements.
Some of that was done because of propagation of this extreme elements within Islam.
For example, Wahhabi Islam or extreme Salafist Islam, which was propagated and promoted by the allies of the United States of America, like Saudi and UAE, whose views I don't agree with, but they did push that.
They pushed that kind of view.
They pushed those ideas.
And then some of those people are paid for hire as well because they're poor, you pay them.
So in Syria, if you remember, a lot of the people, some of them were ISIS, they didn't believe in those ideas, even though they were funded by the United States of America and Israel.
But they supported by Israel.
But then on the other hand, you also had it where they were just paid by hire.
So for example, you had people from Uzbekistan, Central Asia coming in just because they were being paid.
In terms of when you don't find someone with a kippah, yeah, because the difference is they're not going to go fight.
They're not going to go.
They're going to get someone else to fight.
They're going to get another person to fight.
They're going to get other countries to go to war.
They're going to do it in a different way because they're a lot more smarter in that perspective.
shabbos kestenbaum
So let me respond because there are a lot of accusations being made.
Again, if you want to make the claim that Jews who wear keepers in the United States aren't blowing themselves up because they'll get Muslims to blow themselves up, you're going to have to substantiate that.
You just said we're much smarter.
sulaiman ahmed
I said they control.
I'm sorry, you mustn't say that also.
shabbos kestenbaum
You're going to have to substantiate the claim that American Jews and like which American Jews are paying and who specifically are they paying to blow themselves up.
The premise of this debate, again, was not theological differences, although I am happy to get into theological debate.
We can talk about how in 628 CE, Muhammad led his army into Saudi Arabia to kill the entire Jewish community, which is why even today you had when all the Jewish hostages were being killed in Gaza, Khyber, Khyber, Al-Yehud, which is a chant they're still saying today.
But I don't really want to get into that, but we can if you want.
All I'm saying is irrespective of the theological differences, what matters are the practical political ramifications.
All I care about is that today, the reason we have such a large refugee crisis is because countries, predominantly Islamic countries in the Middle East, are failed states.
The reason we're talking about regime change is because there's a country called Iran, the Islamic regime of Iran, that will kill you.
Laws on the books right now that if you convert to a different religion, they will kill you.
You know what Judaism's answer is?
If you convert to another religion, well, unfortunately, intermarriage is like one of the problems facing Judaism.
There's no consequences to intermarriage, which again, theologically, it's a bit problematic, but politically.
No, there's zero consequences because we don't.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm just asking, I'm not interested in what happens.
unidentified
Your kids aren't Jewish.
sulaiman ahmed
I understand this.
Yeah, that's it.
shabbos kestenbaum
That's it.
Your kids aren't Jewish.
But it's not that we would kill you.
And again, we even hear cases in the United States where communities that have a tremendous problem with assimilation, you have honor killings because people are converting or they're leaving the religion of Islam entirely.
So whether that's based on a true or authentic interpretation of the Quran, who the hell cares?
All I care about is that people are actually being killed by radical Muslims, which leads to my last point, and then I'll shut up, which is to say this.
You can't, this is one of the problems I have with Israel-Gaza, and I'm happy to get into that debate later, which is to say this.
Judaism believes, and Western philosophy believes this as well, that all human beings, whether you're a Muslim, whether you're a Jew, whether you're a Christian, it doesn't matter.
You are born with human agency and you can make choices in life.
And the only person who is responsible, this is actually what Dennis Prager, Prager, you taught me.
The only person who is responsible for the choices in your life is you.
You have the ultimate authority to decide what your life will end up looking like.
And to simply say, and this goes back to your point, that the reason that there is Islamic terrorism is because something, the Jews, or something, Israel, or something that they experience makes something of your life.
After World War II, which actually was a genocide, where 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, and I know everyone on Twitter is going to say, oh, 271, you can't pay cookies or what?
Whatever.
A lot of Jews were killed.
unidentified
You're missing the point.
Exactly.
You're missing the point.
shabbos kestenbaum
But point being, the Jewish response was not to pillage, rape German women in Germany and Poland and Hungary and Ukraine.
The response was to make something of their life.
So when you talk about the disproportionate amount of Jews in politics or in media, it's not a conspiracy.
It actually is based in reality that Jews believe tremendously in the power of education, that you have to have professional success, that you have to build a better life for your community.
And again, I wish all peoples, Muslims, Christians, blacks, they would take that approach as well.
There are actually Jewish organizations in the United States today.
They're not very successful, but they will actually try to the best of their ability to get Jewish kids out of public school into Jewish day schools.
And I wish, I would hope that Muslim communities in America and Christian communities in America did the same thing.
Christian parents should be teaching their kids the values of Christianity.
They should be sending their kids to Christian day schools.
America would be such a much better country if more Christians went to church, if more Christians went to the Bible.
And Judaism says that's absolutely great.
And unfortunately, let's call a spade a spade.
Leaving aside theology on a practical matter, there is a disproportionate and significant amount of Muslims in America and Muslim leadership in particular who do not believe in the things I just said.
alex stein
I just want to make this one point, though.
And, Charbis, I might be wrong.
I don't want to misrepresent you.
But weren't you kind of a leftist and then you became conservative?
Is that?
Yeah.
unidentified
Okay.
alex stein
So why is it that all the young people, like iShow Speed, the biggest live streamer that there is right now, is free Palestine.
You know, if radical Islam is so dangerous, why would you say the majority of people under 30 support Palestine?
shabbos kestenbaum
That is the question.
I'm glad you asked that.
So there are two ways of answering it.
Number one, you can hate Jews as much as you want.
You can hate Israel as much as you want, hate BB as much as you want.
Fine.
But I am begging the American people.
I know my name is a walking fucking stereotype.
Okay.
I know I wear the funny hat and I have the crooked nose.
I get it.
Hate me as much as you want.
But I am begging you, do not listen to people, whether they're on the right or the left, who tell you that no one is going to, you know, fuck you if you don't take crystal meth and look a certain way.
No one is going to give you a job if you don't denounce Israel.
The only arbiter of whether you will have a successful life is you.
Stop listening to low IQ, mentally challenged podcasters or individuals on the Twitterverse who are telling you that the reason your life sucks is because something something the Jews.
And again, hate us as much as you want.
I don't care.
But I'm so deeply concerned about the demoralization of young people in America, which is why Charlie Kirk was such an incredible human being, not because he supported Israel, not because he liked Jews, but because he told people, you will be a better person if you get married and have kids and find Jesus.
And as an Orthodox Jew, I am telling you, that is the best antidote to the crap that young people are experiencing today.
Why are young people so heavily medicated?
Why are they disproportionately depressed and have anxiety?
It's because they don't have Jesus in their life.
It's because they don't have meaning.
It's because they're listening to people online telling them that you'll never get ahead in life.
You'll never find a woman.
You'll never be successful because something's something the Jews.
So that's first and foremost.
Hate Israel as much as you want, but please, for the love of God, like go to church.
In terms of why so many young people are into this, look, I know this is going to be clipped online and you're going to take this out of context, but let's call a spade a spade.
Byte dance is a subsidiary of the Chinese Communist Party.
The Chinese Communist Party on record has stated that it'd be a good thing for their long-term foreign policy to have young Americans not only hate Israel and hate the Jews, but to hate the West, to distrust American institutions, to distrust the system at large.
And one of the best points of that is the flashpoint of Israel-Palestine, which is why you had millions of young Americans, particularly on college campuses like at Harvard, where I was, who are talking about freeing Palestine and supporting Hamas, and not a single person is interested in supporting the Iranian people as they are also being gunned down in the streets, chanting for the exact same rights that I believe Palestinians should have in Gaza as well.
So a lot of it is disinformation.
And the last point I'll make, and then I promise I'll stop talking, which is to say this.
At Harvard, at Columbia, at Yale, at Penn, at UCLA, all across American institutions of higher learning, we have been fed a diet of political indoctrination of diversity, equity, inclusion, that the world is comprised of two categories, the oppressed and the oppressors.
And you have carte blanche freedom, if you are the oppressed, to do whatever it is you would like to rid yourself of that oppression, which is why Luigi Mangion, who shot and killed Brian Thompson, the United Healthcare CEO, in broad daylight, every single age demographic in this country condemns what he did, with one exception, 18 to 24 year olds.
Why?
Because he was oppressed.
He had back problems.
So he has the freedom.
He has the moral obligation to rid himself of that oppression, which is why you can show my classmates at Harvard, you can show young people the most horrific images of October 7th.
It will not move them in any measurable way.
Because even though Israel is roughly two-thirds Middle Eastern, so it's not a white country at all, Israel has the misappropriation, has the stereotype of being a white country.
And if you're white, you're part of the oppressor class.
So Israel will always be the oppressor.
They can never do anything right.
A lot of it has to do with these binary DEI.
And again, I'm happy to get into debate of Israel-Gaza, but that's my general consensus, leaving aside Israel-Gaza, that young people are too often put into these stupid binaries of literally black versus white, which is why you have these insane, dumb, white, liberal women who are trying to run over ICE officers to save their illegal immigrant Somali Muslim friend.
It's insanity.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay, I'm not sure.
Get through that.
So the first thing is, in terms of people having autonomy, of course, every human has autonomy.
But as you mentioned, you work for Prager U. One of the things Prague U does is funds a lot of money, spends a lot of money, hence why you work for them, is to propagate information because they believe that they're able to influence people.
So this idea that people are not influenced is removing a key category.
shabbos kestenbaum
Can I have 10 seconds to respond to that before we move on to the next point?
That's literally what every single human being on planet Earth does.
That's the reason we're on this podcast because in the marketplace of ideas, obviously I want to influence people because I think I'm right.
Obviously, you want to influence people because you think you're right.
Because obviously, Prager U does that?
The Daily Wire.
That's not any human being on planet Earth does not.
unidentified
That's not good.
shabbos kestenbaum
That's literally on the same picture.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but it's because you said each, no, because you said each person has autonomy to make their own decision.
unidentified
I agree with that.
shabbos kestenbaum
People think I'm wrong.
They shouldn't listen to me.
In the same way if people don't think you're right, they shouldn't listen to them.
I agree with them.
They're not making your own choices.
sulaiman ahmed
No, no, but I agree with that.
But let me just finish my point, right?
So although you're right, everyone tries to influence.
Hence, why on this podcast, we believe that our ideas are stronger than everybody else's.
That being said, what I'm saying is that what then we're admitting is that we believe that we're able to influence the populace.
And now what happens is if you believe you're able to influence the populace, then the question mark becomes in what way.
So when you've got people, institutes like Prague University, or you, for example, got the media, or you've got social media, and yes, the people who are pro-Israel push that position, push that propaganda more than anything else, you're able to influence.
And so what I mean by that is this.
So when you talked about, for example, Jewish people, now I do believe Jewish people were oppressed, right?
But that being, no, because some people don't, right?
shabbos kestenbaum
I appreciate it.
sulaiman ahmed
No, no, it's not a concession.
It's just the way the way the industry is, right?
But that being said, I believe that what happened was because they were, they then thought, look, we're never going to have we're never going to allow this to happen again, never again.
And therefore, as you said, they disproportionately are in media.
They're disproportionately in politics.
They're disproportionately in all these things.
And what then happens is they were able to influence society.
So yeah, I agree.
Each person should believe that they can make a difference.
And I believe that once you realize these things are happening, because when you're getting influenced and you don't know that you're getting influenced, it's much worse.
But now that people have become aware, the great awakenings happen, people are aware that they're being influenced by Zionists.
Now they're able to wake up.
So when, for example, society is being liberalized, when there's a population collapse amongst the white populace, when there's, as you mentioned, so many of these DEI policies, or as you mentioned, when you've got huge immigration issues, people are realizing, wait a sec, this group of people, these Zionists are actually there to harm white Christian society, are there to harm society, to minimize their numbers, to destroy them internally.
And I do actually believe that this was done intentionally because they were seen as a threat because of what happened in World War II and prior, the thousands of years prior.
In terms of the other points you mentioned, I can't remember what's the point you mentioned.
shabbos kestenbaum
Can I quickly respond to that point?
I'm not sure how this works.
I just want to make sure that you respond and then we can.
sulaiman ahmed
We don't want that to be because you're doing like five points.
You don't five points.
I'm getting like that.
shabbos kestenbaum
So let's do one at a time.
Let me just quickly respond.
First of all, it's interesting you're interchangeably using Jews and Zionists.
I don't know if you did that intentionally or not, because I know because we were talking earlier that you make a distinction.
So it's just interesting, perhaps subconsciously.
You keep saying Zionist, then you also keep saying Jews.
unidentified
Again, I can see Jewish Zionists who did it.
shabbos kestenbaum
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but that's a different discussion.
It's not a conspiracy.
I mean, this is the megas.
I don't know what Jewish supremacy means, considering there are less Jews alive today than pre-World War II.
And this is my greater point.
What do you mean you don't believe that?
There are less Jews alive today than there were pre-World War II.
Pre-World War II.
No, not at all.
There were 16 million.
You could look this up right now.
I'm happy to be fine.
You could look it up right now.
No, no, no, less Jews alive today.
unidentified
I don't agree with that.
sulaiman ahmed
There's a lot of people like you checking.
shabbos kestenbaum
Hang on, but it's not a question of agreeing or discipline.
unidentified
You can Google it right.
shabbos kestenbaum
You can write that on live time.
sulaiman ahmed
He doesn't take Jew, but he's a Jew.
As an example, it's irrelevant who's Jewish.
shabbos kestenbaum
There are less Jews alive today than there are people.
I disagree with that.
unidentified
I don't know.
It's not a good idea.
shabbos kestenbaum
You can Google it right now.
alex stein
Can a boy have a baby?
It would say yes.
No, but Google.
sulaiman ahmed
But Google won't show that, Shabbos.
For example, let me give you something like Alex.
shabbos kestenbaum
Wait, we're getting really sad.
Let me make a point, and then I'll like.
sulaiman ahmed
So, there's a lot more Jews than the claim.
shabbos kestenbaum
Actually, it's not true, but again, it's not true.
It's all usually right now.
If you want to make the excuse, give an example.
unidentified
There's one person in the podcast who is Jewish, but who doesn't take Jew, so he wouldn't be on the number of people.
sulaiman ahmed
Of course, I'm not disagreeing that Google says, You don't understand my point.
I'm saying, someone like Alex Stein, Alex Stein's a Jewish, Jewish, but he doesn't take Jew.
shabbos kestenbaum
And so he doesn't check Jew.
alex stein
So, for example, in the census, how it works was my grandfather is Jewish, nobody else in my family is Jewish, and I was raised Christian.
shabbos kestenbaum
Correct.
If you want to make that point, of the roughly 50 million Jews alive today, then yes, if you want to take an Orthodox perspective, I would say a significant amount are not what we call halakhically.
Halakha means Jewish law.
Luckily, they're not considered Jews.
sulaiman ahmed
No, I mean the opposite.
I mean, there's more than 50 million.
So, for example, if there's somebody, some people who are Jewish, but then, for example, they won't take the Jewish, he'll take his Christian, but then he's Jewish as an example.
shabbos kestenbaum
I understand your point.
sulaiman ahmed
But the numbers are higher than 15.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, it's not half.
In 1935, hang on, wait, let me make a point.
Let me make the point.
Hang on, let me make the point.
Let me make the point.
says I'm right.
In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws Yeah, I know that You're not.
I'm addressing your point right now.
In 1935, the Nuremberg laws clearly stated what are the definitions of a Jew?
Not if you have a Jewish mother, which would be the Jewish law categorization, but even if you had, like our friend Alex Steinberg, if you had a Jewish grandfather, you would be sent to death.
So your categorization of, well, actually, the amount of Jews are much larger because the way that we classify Jews are way more liberal.
The Nazis did the exact same thing.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm saying the opposite.
They're less liberal.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, the Nazis were more liberal in who they classified as Jewish, which is what you had.
sulaiman ahmed
No, my point.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, I'm not proving your point.
unidentified
No, let me make the point and then you're going to be able to do it.
sulaiman ahmed
You're not making sense.
unidentified
Okay.
shabbos kestenbaum
I am making sense.
Under Nazi German law, the Nazis would deport people to concentration camps.
They would kill them in gas chambers based on their classification of who is Jewish.
And according to their classification of Jewish, it was not the Jewish legal classification of whether your mother is Jewish, which in our religion is the only determination.
Their classification was if your mother, your father, your grandmother, or your grandfather on either side.
And if you take that number, it was roughly 16 million people.
Now, if we were to take the exact same classification and the exact same definition of you have a Jewish grandmother, Jewish grandfather, Jewish mother, Jewish father, it is still less Jews today than there were pre-World War II.
alex stein
16 before World War II, now it's 15.8 million.
Right, so basically it is less.
shabbos kestenbaum
But isn't that remarkable?
Let me make the point.
Isn't that remarkable, though, that even 80 years after the fact, we still have not been able to repopulate after our genocide?
And the reason I think it's so remarkable is because Judaism, not because we're a supremacist, but we just predate Islam and Christianity.
That's not a Jewish supremacist claim.
That's just a historical claim.
We predate Islam and we predate Christianity.
Yes, how many Muslims are there?
They're like 2 billion.
How many Christians are there?
Like 2 billion.
How many Jews are there?
Barely 16 million.
And in fact, the Hebrew Bible actually prophesies that.
Sorry, sorry.
unidentified
You're right.
sulaiman ahmed
So let me stop.
This is my point.
As you said quite correctly, during Nazi Germany, they were very liberal in the interpretation of what a Jew is.
Therefore, when they're liberal, the numbers are going to be higher.
Now, what's happened is when there's a lot of people who may have a Jewish grandfather, may have a Jewish great-grandfather, whatever it may be, they will not be categorized as a Jewish person.
And an example of that is Alex Steinberg.
I'm trying to explain to you.
So under Nazi Germany, he would be within the 15, 16 million.
So now you have a broader circle.
Therefore, more people fall into that circle.
Now you have a smaller circle.
Less people fall into that circle.
It's very precise.
So someone like him would not be under the data of Jews.
But in reality, he is.
And therefore, what I'm saying is there's a lot more than has been said.
But even then, I don't even know why we're saying that.
shabbos kestenbaum
I agree to side point, but I just demonstrated why that isn't true.
I'm saying even under Definition today using the same Nazi classification of your mother, father, grandmother, or grandfather.
There are still less Jews using the exact same definition, which is why you had people under Nazi Germany who said, I'm not Jewish.
I go to mass every single week.
Why are you sending me to Auschwitz?
And the Nazi said, No, you are Jewish.
So, all I'm saying is if you use the exact same classification, there are still fewer Jews.
But I agree, it's a sideboard.
The real point I wanted to make, though, is it's not that there's a conspiracy.
I think this is where kind of the Twitter verse gets it wrong.
It's not that there's a global cabal of Jews who are secretly implanting themselves to control the media, to control business, to control politics, to control finance.
It's Jews are very proud of the fact that we make sure from a very young age that young people are aware that they must make something of themselves.
They should go out into the professional world and be successful.
And that doesn't mean we do it at the disadvantage of other people.
I'm telling you right now, let me look straight at the camera.
Young Muslims, young Christians, Americans, irrespective of your religion, you should also look at Jewish people and say, wow, I also want to be very successful.
And I also want to have an education.
And I also want to be loyal to one country is the United States of America.
So I hope and pray that Muslim Imams are going to mosques every single week.
And they're not preaching about the superiority of Islam, but instead they're telling young people, you live in the greatest country on planet Earth.
Make something of yourself.
Because that's what I was taught every single day.
And that's why we go to our synagogue and we pray for the welfare of the United States of America.
We are told you have one allegiance.
That's the United States.
Make something of yourself in this country.
unidentified
So just to honestly, I don't think that Jews have one allegiance, which is not worth it.
shabbos kestenbaum
I just told you, we pray every single day for the webinar.
unidentified
They have multiple allegations.
sulaiman ahmed
They have multiple allegiance.
That's why basically you've got Jews.
For example.
shabbos kestenbaum
As a Jewish person fucking named Shabit Kestenbaum.
This is the only country I have ever known.
I was born in this country.
unidentified
I have died in this country.
sulaiman ahmed
Why do a lot of Jews serve the Israeli army?
For example, that's a foreign nation.
That's Julie allegiance.
shabbos kestenbaum
That's a foreign army.
sulaiman ahmed
The second point, I just want to respond to the other point as well.
So in reality, you've got people who claim they're American.
Even if you believe Israel is your greatest ally, which obviously I don't.
But that being said, even if you believe it, how can you serve a foreign nation?
There could be scenarios where they don't have the same political position, the same geopolitical position.
Allegedly, when the bombing of a Qatar happened, as an example, Trump wasn't happy with it.
The Israelis did it.
That would be an example from a military perspective where they didn't have the same perspective.
And then you have these Americans, allegedly, who are serving the foreign country of Israel.
Jewel allegiance.
It means what happens if America and Israel disagree?
They're going to be fighting for the foreign nation.
We have, for example, Rabbi Shumule, whose children basically fight in the Israel.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, don't call him Rabbi.
We denounced him years ago.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but his children fight in the Israeli army.
I'm sure you don't denounce him.
shabbos kestenbaum
Let me be clear.
They should be denounced as American citizens, renounce their citizenship.
I agree with you.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but your position is if you serve in the IDF, you should be denounced as a citizenship.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, no, no, no.
That's not the citizenship.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay, so yeah.
So this is the point, but you should believe that.
Well, the second thing is in terms of, and let me just add the immediate point, please.
So in terms of media, the thing is, we can say that, yeah, everyone's got an opportunity.
And yes, we do.
I do believe in the United States of America, in the Western world, we all have an opportunity to succeed.
Look, we're examples of that.
I came from a very working class background from the UK.
And I think I've done well, right?
And you've done well.
And so has Bo.
So of course, irrespective of religion, you do have a chance.
That being said, there is additional privileges or situations that occur that help specifically Jewish people.
And I think Jewish Zionists, because I think when they're not Zionists, they have a less of a chance.
And an example of that is, you look at TikTok, you mentioned about Biden's, right?
And what happened?
Once Jonathan Greenblatt from the left found out there's a problem, he got a right-wing guy.
And this is why, when it comes to left-wing, right-wing, they don't exist anymore when it comes to Zionists.
He got Larry Ellison, who basically is the biggest funder of the IDF, to basically take over TikTok.
He took over TikTok with David Harowitz.
David Harowitz is who is someone who also funds the IDF and also funds anti-Islam hatred.
And these people talk over TikTok.
You saw in terms of X, X that basically again push, again, X was a big platform which exposed a lot of the things that were happening in Israel.
What happened?
They got Elon Musk.
They made him go to Israel.
They made him go to the Auschwitz tour.
And therefore, and that impacted the algorithm.
You have, for example, CBS, CBS taken over by Larry Ellison.
What does he do?
He brings Barry Weiss in.
Was Barry Weiss the most qualified person?
He paid $150 million for her free press.
Her free press, when you look at views, definitely doesn't substantiate the $150 million.
If it did, this guy should be paid $300 million based on views.
So quite clearly, what is the reason she gave it?
Because Barry Weiss was Jewish.
She's almost the mouthpiece of Israel.
And therefore, they wanted that to propagate a lot of the propaganda.
And you see that with Iran now, where they're making a lot of the propaganda about the protests, about happening in Iran.
A lot of it's coming from CBS news and those allies of Israel because they want to cause a color revolution in Iran where the government, and it's not worked because the people just do not agree with it.
And hence why the government is still in power.
They were still in power after the 12-day war, which was a prime time where people returned, but they realized when the Israelis were bombing, these guys are external enemy.
And it's not working out.
People are not with this position of the Zionists where they want to take over America.
And in terms of America, look, Muslims love the United States of America.
For me, I travel a lot.
I think the United States of America is literally the best place, right?
I think the people of the United States of America are the best.
I just don't agree with some of the actions of the government.
And we can do that.
We can disagree.
I disagree with the actions of, I mentioned to you when I said the expansion of Islam.
I disagree with that.
So we can disagree because we are political analysts.
We have like rational thought, rational ideas.
We're allowed to disagree, right?
But in terms of hate of America, no, I don't believe that Muslims hate America.
There may be some specific extreme Muslims who do, just like the specific extreme Jews who do.
You see it on Twitter, these Jews who are doing sermons and talking about how we're going to subjugate the white man, we're going to subjugate the Goyim, we're going to subjugate the Gentile.
Of course that happens.
But I'm saying overarchingly, disproportionately, Muslims, when they're, as you said, 2 billion or 1.6 billion, you might find some extremism.
When you look at per capita, that's a very small amount.
When you look at Israelis and you look at per capita, the man who supported, for example, the actions of the Israeli state, in Israel and in the United States of America, disproportionately, overwhelmingly, per capita, they do support actually murder and killing.
And that's what the problem is.
bo french
Do you know what I think about exactly 0% of the time is Zionism?
You know what I actually do think about?
This goal to implement Sharia law all throughout the United States.
I mean, we have this growing effort.
In Texas, we've seen it.
In fact, it's on the ballot March 3rd when I'm on the ballot.
And it's this effort.
What's the ballot?
The primary election in Texas.
sulaiman ahmed
Oh, sorry, I thought you mentioned Sharia lawyers.
unidentified
It's on the ballot.
bo french
But they have put on the ballot March 3rd an effort to ban the implementation of Sharia law in Texas because we have entire Islamic communities that are popping up wanting to build enclaves where they don't follow U.S. law.
They want to follow Sharia law.
Do you disagree with that?
Of course I disagree with that.
sulaiman ahmed
With only Muslims at all communities.
bo french
Sharia law is incompatible with our laws.
sulaiman ahmed
No, no, I'm saying on the law.
bo french
And that culture is incompatible with our culture.
sulaiman ahmed
So I'm talking about when religions that aren't Christian create maybe enclaves where people from that specific religion are in a specific area and maybe they follow their own practices more than anything else.
Are you against that?
Or is it just Muslims you're against?
bo french
What I'm against is laws that are incompatible with U.S. law.
I am unaware of other communities that have laws that are incompatible with our Constitution.
But I am very familiar with the laws that are incompatible with our Constitution within Sharia.
And by the way, this is not my opinion.
This is most people in Texas.
I talk to a lot of people.
I'm running for office.
So this is something that is very worrisome.
And so this notion that it's just, it's no big deal.
And you're for America.
Yeah, I'm sure you're for America.
You love America because there's more money here than anywhere else in the world.
It is fertile ground.
The communists have been working on America for 60 or 70 years, trying to strip God and Christianity from our society, which of course makes it fertile ground for the Islamists to come in and capture those people.
So that's what's happening.
And we're all waking up to it.
We have two elected officials in our state legislature in Texas who are from Islamic backgrounds.
And what do they do?
Of course, they're not like singing patriotic songs about America.
They're pushing laws that glorify Islam in Texas.
unidentified
Like what?
bo french
All kinds of recognitions and so.
sulaiman ahmed
I don't get it.
alex stein
Well, I would say some aspects of Sharia law is good, like women not driving.
I mean, it's not.
sulaiman ahmed
That's not in Sharia.
If it was, it would be good.
alex stein
I thought that was.
shabbos kestenbaum
The only countries that forbade women from driving were, of course, Muslim-majority countries.
unidentified
Saudi Arabia just gave them the right to be able to do it.
sulaiman ahmed
It's not against Labor.
It's a good thing.
shabbos kestenbaum
But if I let you say that, let me stop.
Let me say something quickly and then I'll let you know.
sulaiman ahmed
I just want to have a quick question.
shabbos kestenbaum
You spoke about the Texas community.
sulaiman ahmed
Because there's two of you, you see.
So I'm basically having responsibility.
So in terms of what you said, the thing is, if why I asked about the enclave question and you were, and I think you struggle to answer the question is because what you're basically demonstrating is your single-minded focus isn't consistency.
Because if you were consistent, I would respect that.
I'd be like, look, this makes sense.
He's been consistent across the board.
But you're basically single-minded focused on Islam, probably because it may help with your political career.
Because in reality, when you look at it, for example, Tyler something, whatever his name is, podcaster, he just came out with a documentary.
alex stein
Oliver.
sulaiman ahmed
Tyler Olivero, who came out with a documentary in New York, where the Hasidic community, 99.9%, kind of have an enclave.
And by the way, I don't like have any issues with this.
If someone wants to practice a religion, I've got no problem with it.
But my point is they practice their own religion.
They have like, is it 10, 11 children?
They get a lot of welfare.
They practice the, for example, strict Judaism.
And apparently, if you're not, according to his documentary, again, we need to verify this because a lot of them are not.
No, because a lot of times, like I said, there is like misinformation.
I don't know if there is on this one.
But what he said is that it's even very difficult for white Christians or white people to even get accommodation for rent in that place.
So that demonstrates an enclave.
So what it demonstrates is a lack of consistency when you say that.
The second thing is Sharia law is not coming to the United States of America.
And this is why I asked the question because you weren't able to basically demonstrate how it was because there's no instance where Sharia law has overtaken the United States of America.
The Constitution supersedes.
Actually, there was in one incident where, but obviously probably not an issue for you because you're single-focused.
But there was one issue where there was one religious law that overtook the legal ruling of the United States of America.
You know what that was?
That was halakha law, which was basically there was a case, I believe it was called a victus versus a victus or a victim versus a victim.
I can't remember exactly.
And what it was is there was a judgment made within the Jewish courts, same as the Sharia courts.
And what happened was that ruling, whatever the decision was made, that superseded whatever the court had decided.
And so they took that on board.
So that's the only instance in the United States of America when that's happened.
So this claim that Sharia law has taken over, again, is propaganda because where is this happening?
Now, is this city...
bo french
I didn't say it was taking over.
What I said is that they are trying to implement Sharia law in Muslim-only enclaves.
And like I said, at the very beginning, well, okay, Epic.
alex stein
They're building it in epic cities.
sulaiman ahmed
But what's the Sharia law in it?
That's what I'm trying to ask.
No, I understand about Epic.
They're trying to create an enclave or community.
bo french
I know, but a Muslim-only Sharia-compliant community.
I mean, they've stated that is their goal.
sulaiman ahmed
And what's the Sharia part of it that conflicts with what they're trying to implement?
What part of the Sharia are they trying to implement that conflicts with U.S. law?
This is what I'm asking.
I genuinely don't know.
bo french
I think that's what it is is incompatible with U.S. law.
sulaiman ahmed
So all Sharia.
So for example, a marriage.
Husband and wife get married.
That's against Sharia law.
Or for example, prayer to God.
You believe that that's against Sharia law.
The thing is, Sharia law.
bo french
Well, does Sharia law mandate that you pray to God?
Because our Constitution does not mandate that you pray to God.
sulaiman ahmed
No, so Sharia law is just like Christian Christianity, right?
So you can pray and you cannot pray.
And if you don't pray, obviously Muslims, Jews, and Christians believe that if you're not praying to God, you're going to be self-helled, you know, whatever it may be.
And so what is Sharia law?
Sharia law, largely speaking, what is it?
It's practicing, right?
You'll pray, you'll fast.
He mentioned, Shabbos mentioned that he fasts almost every day or something or every other day.
And so you may be.
shabbos kestenbaum
You're welcome to join me.
sulaiman ahmed
No, Muslims do it as well, right?
They do it like 30 days in a year, and some do it if they're more religious, they'll do it twice a week or whatever it may be.
Now, you would say no.
bo french
That's probably something I can get on board with.
I probably need to eat less.
sulaiman ahmed
Oh, okay.
So now you're saying you're getting bothered.
shabbos kestenbaum
So now you convinced him he wants Sharia law.
sulaiman ahmed
Can I respond?
shabbos kestenbaum
Okay, I get the point you're making, but you're confusing two very separate court systems in the United States.
One is voluntary participation of religious councils, but we've had that really since the 1700s.
So we have Catholic tribunals.
We have what you're referring to.
It's not halakha.
It's called halakha.
It's a based in.
But it's called a based-in.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but what's the joke?
shabbos kestenbaum
Oh, a halakha.
sulaiman ahmed
Halakha.
I didn't know the halacha.
shabbos kestenbaum
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Once you circumcise, you automatically gain the ability to say cha.
So halacha is Jewish law.
But again, we've had voluntary participation in religious councils, again, since the 1700s.
I think we've actually had them since before these talents in the United States.
But that's very, very different than what you were talking about.
So again, you have Catholic tribunals.
You have, in Jewish law, it's called a based in.
And you do have Islamic councils as well.
To be fair, though, we both know that is very different than Sharia law, but I digress.
Let me just one point.
In terms of what you're referring to of this video of Curious Joel, Curious Joel is an incorporated city.
It's part of Monroe County.
Yes, it's true there's a high concentration of Orthodox Jews there.
It's also true that white Christians also live there.
I've been to Curious Yoel many times.
You will find white Christians who live there as well.
And I also have to say, this might be a hot take.
I'm forgetting his name, but the guy who wants to build a white Christian city in the middle of nowhere architecture.
unidentified
Avil Avil.
shabbos kestenbaum
Sure, whatever his name is.
That should absolutely be allowed.
I think in the United States, we do build ourselves around voluntary participation.
People should live in communities where they subscribe to the same values.
Absolutely.
unidentified
That's a problem with this.
shabbos kestenbaum
Well, Bo is a very smart man, and he can talk about his own opinions.
Okay, but I'm talking about me, and I can only defend my opinions.
In terms of what's happening, though, is you're trying to conflate what Nick Shirley did in Minneapolis with what this podcaster did in Curious Joel.
I believe that we need to reform the welfare system in the United States.
The fact of the matter is, we obsess about foreign aid to Israel, for example, yet foreign aid comprises less than 1% of what the federal government spends every single year.
What is a way bigger issue is how much we're spending on the military, which Trump now wants to spend, $1.5 trillion.
What is a way bigger issue is our fetal program, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
So I agree.
If you want to have a conversation on welfare, let's have the conversation.
What you can't do, though, is conflate actual fraud where a Somali community in Minneapolis, like 90% of whom are on welfare, and are also committing violations of federal law because they won't assimilate into a greater culture, and then a Hasidic community in New York who are simply legally using the legal tools at their disposal about using welfare.
And again, welfare should be reformed.
We should not have as many people on government handouts as we do today.
But again, let's call a spade a spade.
If you want to talk about Jewish participation in American life, Jews have been living.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm going to respond to that point.
unidentified
Sure.
Okay.
sulaiman ahmed
So just on that, I think you make a fair point.
But in terms of where the, what you call it again, where the fraud is, is in New York, not this ultra-Orthodox community, but in New York, I did the research.
There's a large number of Orthodox Jews who basically committed billions of dollars of fraud.
Now, the reason why that's not been highlighted is specifically because in the United States of America, because media, because social media, because it's pushed through the algorithm, there's a specific direct focus on Islam.
So therefore, I would say, irrespective of where the fraud is, whether it's Minneapolis, which I need to look at it because I know some of them points that Nikki Shirley, Nick, sorry, Nick Shirley made, they got debunked, but I need to look at all of it because I've not been through each individual point.
But also, why is there that?
I'm not talking about the Hasidic community.
I'm talking specifically, even in New York, there was billions of dollars of fraud.
But why has that not been highlighted?
The reason it's not been highlighted is specifically because there is this specific focus per what the Israeli foreign ministry said.
Focus on Islam, hate Muslims, attack them, and that's why there's this.
alex stein
Let me make one point there, Chevy.
You know, and I actually wrote this down.
You know, I think a lot of this comes down to social engineering where they have to pit us against each other.
And the reason why I say this is because, like, Chavez, I know you'll probably say, like, Dave Smith is like a horrible person, or like Nick Fuentez, this and that.
But at the same exact time, you look at our history after World War II, we had Operation Paperclip that brought actual Nazis over.
I mean, literal Nazis, like Warner von Braun, who, you know, built rockets that killed people in Poland.
So I just find it crazy how.
And then I look at part of the social engineering, you look at how we left Afghanistan and we left the Taliban, you know, they say we're the biggest threat, but then we leave them with like a billion dollars with the military equipment.
So my point is, really, at the end of the day, the government doesn't really care about us.
I think that they're pitting us against each other.
And I guess I agree with that.
And that's why, really and truly, you guys probably wouldn't dislike each other that much.
You guys probably actually have a lot more in common than you think.
But we're socially engineered to hate one another.
And we both have, you know, there's some aspects of Judaism that, you know, people can be critical of, and maybe it's fair.
And there's aspects of Islam that people can be critical, and that's fair.
And so what that does is that makes us fight.
And that's what they want us to do.
So how do we, I guess, bring world peace or come together?
unidentified
I agree with you.
sulaiman ahmed
I think that the government wants to do left, be right, black, be white, Muslim versus Christian, maybe Jews against everybody else, whoever it may be.
And I think that's versus everybody.
alex stein
Jews versus Jews against black.
sulaiman ahmed
It's true.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's working.
sulaiman ahmed
They're running.
But anyway, coming back to, and I think that's done intentionally in order to cause division, I agree with you, amongst the working class while the government continues to enrich itself.
For example, you look at the economy, the stock market is being increased, so the wealthier, the dollar is being weakened, the poor get poorer.
So I think I agree with you.
I think that's happened intentionally.
I do think some of it is that they want to create this kind of palantir control system in place, which, again, look at who's in charge of palantir, but this palantir control system in place, social credit score in place, and almost take the West down the route of these other countries that we just don't want.
bo french
So we've been battling communism and socialism for a long time here in America.
That is certainly a growing thing.
Is Palantir a problem?
Probably not.
I mean, they're very focused on military technology.
alex stein
Yeah, but the military technology gets used on us.
shabbos kestenbaum
I mean, well, Palantir is also in making sure that ICE is able to do their job.
alex stein
That's what they say, too.
But also, the next time we have a pandemic, it's going to be used to shut us down and take our credit cards off the system so we can't buy it.
sulaiman ahmed
So many of the companies are going to be able to do it.
bo french
Let me bring that up.
shabbos kestenbaum
Correct, but that's a federal issue, less about an American company.
And again, the solution to that is because we live in a capitalist.
Build a bear company.
And that's kind of like my solution when it comes to, well, Jews have so much control of the media, which A and I disagree with.
But B, if you really believe that's true.
No, I say Jews have a disproportionate amount of power in the media, but they don't control the media.
No one controls the media because as your podcast demonstrates right now, or as Elon Musk said, we are the media.
Anyone can do it.
This is why I kind of get frustrated with Nick Fuentes and this demoralization of young people, is because if you constantly tell people that the Jews control Hollywood or the Zionists, whatever word you want to use that day, then A, A, it's not true, but B, more fundamentally, then build something.
And I'm not talking about, when I said this before, a lot of the neo-Nazis on Twitter attacked me because they said, oh, he's attacking white Americans.
I didn't say the word white American.
I just said any American.
If you truly believe that, like, I don't know, Disney is out to make your kids gay, which, sure, then build your own media company.
And I mean that seriously.
Like, build an entertainment industry because that's what America is all about.
It's about private enterprise.
It's about competition.
sulaiman ahmed
I do want to say that people are going to do that, though.
They do try and create their own media.
But as you know, there's a lot more barriers if you're not Zionist than you are Zionists.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's a little Zionist, though.
No, there are barriers.
sulaiman ahmed
I'll give you my example.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, So let me just give you my point.
Let me make a point because you interrupt.
There are barriers, but that pertains to regulation.
That pertains to an environment of government bureaucracy.
So I agree.
We should get rid of red tape.
We should get rid of regulations.
sulaiman ahmed
That's what I'm talking about.
unidentified
Let's call it a spade.
shabbos kestenbaum
There is no law on the book.
There is no policy that states if you are a Zionist or you're not a Zionist, then you don't have equal rights into a particular profession, which is why everybody says, I'm on X, right?
unidentified
That's not true.
sulaiman ahmed
So let me give you an example.
I'm on X. I'm quite a big account on X.
I was super viral in 2024.
If I hadn't been de-boosted, if I hadn't had my blue check mark taken away because of my political opinion, I would be like two times bigger, right?
So, even though I've got three quarters of a million, that's an example of deboosting.
So, me and Laura Neuma, as an example, held the same exact same opinion, right?
We relayed the same idea on the same issue, but she got her blue check mark back and her monetization specifically because she's a Jewish Zionist.
And so, therefore, no, that is the case.
shabbos kestenbaum
But, how do you explain Jewish Zionists like myself who are also banned from X?
I agree with you.
Very briefly, I agree that private corporations have a right to do whatever they would like on their private corporation.
Oftentimes, they're pretty arbitrary.
So, I would agree with you on that.
But if you really want to make the point that if you go on social media, it's pro-Zionist.
I mean, come on, between you and me.
In fact, one of the most viral clips of the last few days was a spliced-up video of me saying that anti-Semites should be jailed for not liking Jews, which A, I didn't say.
sulaiman ahmed
You're not going to get me arrested for this.
shabbos kestenbaum
Right, exactly.
Which A, I didn't say.
B, I don't believe in.
And C, let's call a spade a spade.
Being anti-Israel is the most popular thing you could possibly do.
No, deriving a name for yourself.
sulaiman ahmed
No, no, no.
shabbos kestenbaum
Can you not listen to Candace Owens?
All they talk about is Israel.
sulaiman ahmed
He's right.
Being anti-Israel is the most popular position because the world is against Israel.
They're just seeing what's correct in their time.
shabbos kestenbaum
I agree with you.
The world is against Israel.
That kind of refutes your claim, though, that it's in it for the Zionists.
Because if you want to make money on Twitter or on social media, the best thing you could do is just talk about how the Jews are the Zionists.
Sorry, the Zionists control meetings.
sulaiman ahmed
That's not true, though.
That's not true.
shabbos kestenbaum
You just admitted it's true.
sulaiman ahmed
No, you're missing two points.
So there's two things.
The world is against Israel.
The world is against Zionists, right?
And therefore, what will happen is numerically, it'll be, there are people against it.
But if you look at the people in power and those who control the algorithm, they've been able to take control of it.
Like, for example, mentioned on TikTok or various others, they're able to control the algorithm.
shabbos kestenbaum
Elon Musk controls the algorithm.
unidentified
I know.
sulaiman ahmed
And Elon Musk is a Zionist.
And so that is a sound accusation.
shabbos kestenbaum
And so one of the most freedom fighters of free speech in our country to say that he's in the pockets of the Zionists.
sulaiman ahmed
He literally said it.
He's a Zionist.
And so in terms of the point, so in reality, and in terms of payments, yeah.
So for example, someone like me will financially have to make sacrifices in order to hold the position.
If you have the pro-Israel position, not just the $7,000, not just the algorithm booth, but there's a lot of additional benefits you get by being pro-Zionist.
So that's the concept I'm saying, not in terms of numerically.
Of course, numerically, the world is against what Israel has done.
Humans are like, you know, Russia, humans have humanity.
shabbos kestenbaum
Okay.
Disagree with that last point, but that wasn't the point.
Well, the main point you were making.
Yeah, I think it's actually going to dig on Israel.
I'd like to go back to my mind.
bo french
I said what you said a second ago.
You said that I'm singularly focused on Islam because I just don't like Muslims or something.
But actually, it's not the people, as I said before.
I am pro-America, okay?
I love America.
I love what we stand for.
I love our culture.
And what I've witnessed over my lifetime is a degradation of our culture because we've imported people from other third world countries or whatever you want to call it who have a very different view of what the human experience is like.
And so, yes, Islam I see is a problem because the people who are coming in and bringing Islam, and it seems like there is a track record of what they've done in other countries in the past.
But I'm also like the fraud thing in Minnesota, huge problem.
I think most taxpayers disagree with that, but they're not the only ones doing it.
Look in Texas at the H-1B problem.
Okay, this is, you know, a lot of Indians.
I know, it's not Islam, but like it's not, I'm against all of it, right?
Because I see is like these communities of people who come in and they don't assimilate.
And look, if you bring in a couple here and there, they usually assimilate.
sulaiman ahmed
Well, that's an assimilation to you.
He's wearing a kippah.
bo french
That's not the problem.
shabbos kestenbaum
I can't tell you guys.
bo french
Hang on.
The problem is, is when you get these communities of people who come in who reject what it is to be American, who reject our values.
And they, well, like the high trust society, for instance, or law and order, or not defrauding the government and pocketing as much as you can, not having 100 H-1Bs registered at one fake business at some, you know, someone's house.
I mean, like, there is the fraudulent, and I'm not saying Americans are immune to fraud.
I think this is probably, you know, a bigger problem within the Democrat Party.
But when you have rampant fraud, I mean, there are estimates that at least half a trillion dollars a year is spent on fraud.
I think most taxpayers, I'm a taxpayer.
I mean, that's a problem for me.
So what I want is a society and a culture that values our history, that values, you know, our Constitution, that values, you know, the people who made this country great, the values of, you know, family and faith, those things are what I care about.
And what I don't want to see is, you know, entire neighborhoods taken over that don't look like America anymore.
alex stein
Maybe I'm going to make this one point though.
bo french
A cultural, a cultural.
alex stein
But I would argue this.
Islam has a lot of conservative viewpoints.
I mean, I mean, it's kind of a problem.
bo french
I know, which is why some Republicans have said we need the Muslim voter.
shabbos kestenbaum
I disagree.
I disagree with that.
sulaiman ahmed
The other issue you've got is when you say, and this is why I want people to be precise, because I always feel like a lot of these are talking points.
So when you say that there's no assimilation or it goes against American values, I want to know specifically.
I would say that, for example, I wouldn't say Jews, but Jewish Zionists.
They're basically Jews.
No, because there is a distinction, right?
And so they specifically, I would say they've gone against American values.
If you look at the specific attack on the First Amendment, you look at the specific attack on free speech.
You look at the specific attack on what I think makes America great.
Like what makes America uniquely better than any other country, having traveled a lot of countries and not been from here is the First Amendment.
It's the fact that you have free speech.
And so I would say that's the same thing.
bo french
I think it's the people.
sulaiman ahmed
Yeah, of course.
But the people are made by the Constitution regulates the people.
bo french
Yeah, but you can't just show up here and I don't think you can just show up here and be like, I'm American.
Like, no, there is.
sulaiman ahmed
What's your responsibility?
bo french
I'm sorry.
shabbos kestenbaum
Hang on.
Why are you pointing at me for the attack on the First Amendment?
Let me review myself.
Okay.
First of all, let me be absolutely clear.
sulaiman ahmed
Shamas, don't get me put in jail, bro.
bo french
Please.
shabbos kestenbaum
There should not be, and there aren't, hate speech laws that by itself would incriminate you or sentence you to jail.
Number one, those laws currently don't exist.
And number two, they should not exist.
Let me be absolutely clear because the idiots on Twitter spliced what I said.
You have a right in this country to hate Jews as much as you would like, hate Muslims as much as you would like, hate Christians as much as you would like.
You have a right in this country to be anti-Semitic, to be a racist, to be a home, whatever you want.
You have that right.
The point I was making, and again, it bothers me because the idiots on Twitter spliced it up because the Grouper audience are too low IQ to actually listen to it for 90%.
I know they're coming after the Jews.
They're coming after me anyway.
I might as well just get it out there.
What bothers me is we have primarily far-left politicians who in 2017, for example, there were a couple of teenagers who defaced an historically black church.
They wrote, you know, white power.
They wrote something on the KKK and they defaced the building, obviously.
They vandalized and trespassed private property.
And the judge said, so long as you go to a fucking Holocaust museum and so long as you write a book report on like the evils of racism, we won't sentence you to prison.
And the point I was making is that is bullshit because the only way to combat crime, not speech, not thoughts, but actions, the violation of law, is sending people to prison.
I believe in incarceration within your education.
sulaiman ahmed
Didn't you say that?
shabbos kestenbaum
That's the point I'm making.
sulaiman ahmed
Didn't you say in there that basically it's not a good idea to send them to a Holocaust museum because they might get bad at the end of the day.
shabbos kestenbaum
I didn't mean to make a community.
So do you think a white guy's going to go to the Holocaust Museum and say, I'm going to put if you believe all Jews should be sent to the gas chambers and then you're forced to go to a museum where they say, hey, all these Jews were being sent to gas chambers, he's going to say like, oh, right on.
You're not going to convert him and say, oh, I feel bad for the Jews.
So he was more religious.
Right.
Maybe.
I think what would be a way more effective arsenal network toolkit is just sending them to jail because that actually is an incentive.
To the point though, about what you're making, in 2018, Mohamed Irsan, I believe was his last name, he was sentenced to death by the Texas Supreme Court because he killed his son-in-law.
Why did he kill his son-in-law?
Because in his mind, his son-in-law, who was a Christian, converted his daughter, who was a Muslim, to Christianity.
There is no other, and again, this is not a theological debate.
The Quran, I'm sure, doesn't say to do this.
Maybe it does.
I don't know.
I don't care.
But there is only one group in the United States who will actually kill their own kids if they convert to a different religion.
And I'm like, news flash.
It's not the Jews.
As much as you think, you know, we love genocide and hate Palestinians and we are subservient to Israel.
So let's call a spade a spade.
Is that all Muslims?
Absolutely not.
But I don't care about all Muslims.
I don't care about the peaceful Muslims.
In the same way, I don't care about peaceful white people.
I don't care about peaceful black people.
I care about the non-peaceful white people and the non-peaceful black people and the non-peaceful Muslim people who want to kill me and want to take away my way of life.
And when you mention this one, my last point, I'll let you respond.
When you talk about what does assimilation mean, I'm actually glad you asked that because it's actually a really good question.
What does it mean to assimilate into American culture?
Jews have been living in the United States before it was the United States.
We first got here in roughly 16 in the 1630s.
It might have been a couple years before that was built here.
unidentified
Like, you could say Muslims.
shabbos kestenbaum
100%.
I concede that point.
This is a Christian country.
This is a Christian country.
And it is a very good thing that the Department of Homeland Security, for example, on their Twitter account, doesn't say happy holidays, but they say Merry Christmas.
And they talk about Jesus as the Lord and Savior.
That's a very, very good thing.
Now, in 1790, President George Washington writes a letter to the largest Jewish community in the United States at the time, to the Jewish community of Newport, Rhode Island.
And in this letter, and by the way, the synagogue still exists.
It's the Toro synagogue.
You can go there.
And in this letter, he says, quote, bigotry will be granted no sanction and persecution no assistance.
And he tells the Jews, we want you to come into the United States and practice your Abrahamic belief as children of Abraham.
And we want this to be a pluralistic and religiously tolerant society so long as you adapt to American values, which is why Americans, you mentioned a Jewish power post-World War II, which is interesting because Americans, American Jews in particular, it's true, I wouldn't say we built the country because there weren't that many of us, but in every facet of American life, we've been part of it.
Robert Oppenheimer, which great Christopher Nolan movie, he was Jewish.
Albert Einstein, he was Jewish.
Like, Jews were very proud of the fact that we've contributed to American life, and Muslims should also do the same thing.
And Christians should do the exact same thing, although Christians obviously have been doing that for hundreds of years.
My problem, though, is the minority of the Muslim American community.
Let's look at Somalia, for example, the overwhelming majority of whom are on welfare.
A significant amount are committing welfare fraud.
And 70%, even after living here for more than 10 years, can't speak English.
That is a profound problem.
And it has nothing to do with Islam as a theology, but it has everything to do with how Islam is being practiced as a religion.
Absolutely.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay.
So when you've given the example of Somalia, that's not proven that the practices are due to Islam.
That's a specific community who has come from a war-torn area, a country that basically has been a country.
alex stein
The pirate is not an Islamic thing.
unidentified
And in a country, the barberry wars was piracy, but I digress.
shabbos kestenbaum
So talk about the example in Dallas of a Muslim man who was sentenced to death for killing his slaves.
You can point to any other religion that's doing that.
alex stein
Doesn't the Hebrew Bible say that if you say you're a false prophet, they should be put to death?
shabbos kestenbaum
Absolutely not.
And by the way, even if that's the case, can you point to me in the last 500 years of American history where a single Jew has done that?
alex stein
No, but I mean, it's Deuteronomy.
sulaiman ahmed
But the point is if you look at the, yeah, and if you look at the religion, when you look at the religion, I don't care what you believe in.
But that's the first thing.
If you look at the trihazits, but the thing is, this is the problem I'm trying to say.
Like, you look at one isolated incident of an individual.
shabbos kestenbaum
But it's not isolated.
unidentified
That's the problem.
Sorry, I'm interrupting.
sulaiman ahmed
I mean, it is isolated because if you look at actually specifically with the people within Judaism, the amount of havoc they've caused within the United States of America, destroying society, liberalizing it.
If there's anything, have you heard of, for example, you call the Groypers, but one of the things they've highlighted is this idea of basically why genocide that's happening with the population collapse.
I believe that largely that's happened because of the Jewish control of the media and Jewish control of the media.
shabbos kestenbaum
But Zionists control the media.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but that's specifically the Jewish Zionists, doesn't it?
alex stein
Well, Margaret Sr. did create Planned Parenthood.
sulaiman ahmed
And so in reality, I would say that's much worse than one person killing another person, even though both are bad.
But basically destroying an entire populace is much worse.
In addition to that, when you mentioned about the Somali community, I would say, first of all, you have fraud everywhere.
I just give you an example of the Orthodox Jews.
I'm not talking about the Hasidic community.
bo french
There's a much higher percentage in the Somali community in Minnesota than there is anywhere else in the country.
sulaiman ahmed
I disagree with that.
We need to look at the data because in reality, for example, the Orthodox community.
shabbos kestenbaum
Look at the data.
sulaiman ahmed
So how much fraud did Orthodox Jews in New York meet?
I looked at like just three or four incidents and it almost been.
shabbos kestenbaum
Again, what you're doing is you're dating.
bo french
I think it's 18 billion in Minnesota.
sulaiman ahmed
When I'm saying, I only looked at three or four incidents, therefore, if we looked at it in detail, we would get a different number.
Also, in terms of that, you're basing it on Nick Shirley, who hasn't done a comprehensive, detailed analysis, and some of that has been debunked.
I'm not saying I'm going to go through actually each one of them and see the veracity of those.
For example, he went to one of them when he went through one of them where they were actually shut and then he went in there.
But in terms of Somalia itself, the problem, sorry, that apparently he went, the opening times were like 2 to 10 and he went before they were open.
unidentified
But in terms of- The daycare is open to 10 o'clock, but I digress.
shabbos kestenbaum
I get the point.
sulaiman ahmed
No, I'm giving an example.
but I can't remember the specific timings.
But in terms of Somalia itself, the reason why there's immigration from, and by the way, let's be clear.
The immigration into the United States of America is coming from not Muslim countries.
It's coming from basically Mexico, like Latin countries, which are Catholics, or is coming from like India.
unidentified
And then China.
shabbos kestenbaum
The greatest refugee crisis in the world is because of Middle Eastern countries.
Well, the greatest refugee crisis is because of Syria.
sulaiman ahmed
But I'll come to that in a second.
shabbos kestenbaum
See, again, it always goes back to Israel and Zionists.
Syria was the greatest humanitarian disaster.
Yemen is probably too.
And it is all because of Middle Eastern politics and policies of Islamic regimes.
sulaiman ahmed
That's not true.
So what happened in Syria, as an example, was Syria had Bashar al-Assad in charge, right?
And it's been proven through WikiLeaks that the United States of America, Hillary Clinton's leaked email that they were funding, supporting ISIS.
ISIS being the ISIS being the extremist, you know, which was propagated, Wahhabi, Salafist Islam, propagated by Saudi Arabia.
And Saudi Arabia, Israel and the United States of America had a very close relationship for 50 years.
And who were they fighting?
They were fighting Hezbollah, who is the enemy of Israel.
shabbos kestenbaum
The idea that Bashar al-Assad was allied with the, hang on.
The idea that Bashar al-Assad, who committed chemical genocide against his own people, was in any way.
So again, that's a clear distinction between you and me.
It is well documented that Bashar al-Sad used against his own people.
But again, the whole idea, which goes back to my point at the beginning, is that you never ascribe blame to the actions of individuals.
You always say it goes back to Zionists or it goes back to Hillary Clinton or it goes back to the United States.
sulaiman ahmed
Yes, it does.
When you cause a regime change, when you're basically paying people to do it.
unidentified
Let me make the point.
sulaiman ahmed
Of course, those people are not.
unidentified
But hang on, let me know.
What people have to do is that.
Let me make the point.
shabbos kestenbaum
I hate what you talk about.
When you talk about regime change, it's interesting.
You don't talk about the Iranian Islamic regime change in 1979.
You don't talk about any of the regime change of the last 100 years.
All in the Middle East conducted by radical Islamists.
Because instead of actually talking about the history of the Middle East, hang on, 1979, the regime change, who did it?
The Ayatollah Khomeini.
What was he talking about?
He did it with the support of the radical mullahs, which is why you have millions of Iranians in the streets today.
But again, I'm sure that also has to do with the Zionists or the Jews or whatever who are funding it as well.
At some point, you have to concede moral and human agency that people can make their own choices in life.
And unfortunately, one of the greatest problems facing Western civilization today, let's call a spade a spade, is radical Islamists, because there is only one sect, one religion.
Hang on.
But again, to my point, even if you want to make the point, which is I've clearly demonstrated is not true, that Jews are controlling the media and Jews are controlling banks and Jews are controlling finances.
American Jews are not going to fly planes into world trade centers.
We are not going to bomb buses.
Again, that's exactly my point.
Even if I wanted to concede that point, which again is demonstrably not true.
So again, you don't subscribe any moral or human agency when radical Islamists terrorism.
sulaiman ahmed
My point is you got radical Judaism.
What they do is they control the United States of America.
I'm going to explain it.
And what they do is, and if you look at it, they'll basically bomb the Middle East.
shabbos kestenbaum
If you mention names of American Jews.
alex stein
Let me make this point.
So this is to Suleiman's point.
If you look at the Mujahideen, which was the origin of the modern day ISIS in Al-Qaeda, was created by the CIA in order.
This is true to fund a war against Russia in Afghanistan.
You can look up the Mujahideen and the United States.
shabbos kestenbaum
Why was Russia fighting in Afghanistan, which, by the way, was a bad war?
And who are they fighting?
Radical Islamists.
This idea, this premise that radical Islam only came into the geopolitical Mujahideen.
We funded Osama bin Laden.
He gave them a million.
alex stein
So I'm not disappointed.
America is saving Islamic terrorist weapons to fight a war.
I don't understand.
It's a great conflict.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, I'm not disagreeing with you.
bo french
That's your point.
shabbos kestenbaum
Hang on, hang on.
Let me make the point.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
In the 1980s, the CIA did fund.
Let me make the point.
The CIA in the 1980s absolutely did fund the Mujahideen.
They did fund Osama bin Laden.
The point I am making is radical Islam has existed well before the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, well before the establishment of the United States in 1776, well before the establishment of Western civilization as we know it today.
Radical Islam has been a profound problem.
Let's call a spade a spade since the advent of Islam itself, which is why, as I said earlier, in 628 CE, when the Muslims killed the Jewish community in Saudi Arabia and they chanted Khyber Khabar al-Yehud, that is still a chant being chanted today.
Does that mean all Muslims?
Absolutely not.
I would love to get a, well, maybe I should say beer because that's probably not something you're drinking.
But I'd love to hang out with you.
I think there's so much in common that unites Muslim Americans with Jewish Americans, the immigrant experience.
Absolutely.
But we also have to recognize that one of the threats against Western civilization are people who are being radicalized both at home and abroad and don't subscribe to the American way of life, whether it's coming from the Jewish community or the Muslim community.
But let's be honest, it's way more of a problem.
sulaiman ahmed
When you mentioned the situation where I believe you're talking about the Jews of Banu Quraza, what happened there was that once again, what happened was the Jews and the Muslims had an alliance.
Then the Jewish people of Banu Quraza betrayed the Muslims, tried to get them killed.
And what did they do?
They basically killed only the fighting men.
So that was a punishment for betraying them to try and get them killed.
So that's actually what happened there.
You could disagree with it or not, but that's what happened.
Betrayal unfortunately happens a lot.
Now, in terms of the second point you made, it's the other way around.
When you look at the biggest threat to Western civilization is Jewish extremism.
This idea, this notion that they're basically forcing Western society or Western countries to fight wars for them.
They're destroying the economy in these societies.
And if you look at it, as you mentioned, disproportionately, right?
And I would say overwhelmingly disproportionately, Jewish people control the media, they control politics, they control all aspects of life.
And what that results in is, as I said, something you've not even spoke about because it's a major issue.
There's a reason why Christianity has died in the Western world.
The United States of America is the only country where it's not completely died.
But if you look at Europe, Christianity is dropped in the UK, for example.
You know, you said you're from the UK, right?
Christianity, yeah, sorry, the Christianity used to be 75% and now it's only 45% is dropped 30%.
What's it dropped 30%?
It's atheism.
Atheism has increased by 25%.
So in reality, what's happened is, I believe through the media, through these different initiatives, through NGO groups, through funding and various other things, what's happened is the complete destruction of Christian society, the complete destruction of white people.
And I think that's the biggest problem.
I think if United States of America was only fighting.
Sorry.
bo french
I said on that, we can agree.
sulaiman ahmed
Yeah.
The United States of America would do well not to fight Israel's wars in the Middle East.
The United States of America would be better to concentrate on the United States of America, help the people of the United States of America not enrich, for example, the military-industrial complex, which has a dual benefit to Israel and the military-industrial complex.
But in reality, look at the people.
When I come to the U.S., as I mentioned, like the people here are amazing, but I don't go in an Uber without speaking to someone who says they've got two jobs, they're working 60 hours, they're working 70 hours.
It's very tough on people.
So I think the United States of America should stop Concentrating on foreign wars for foreign people who have not assimilated, who have an attack on the Constitution, attack the First Amendment, the entire thing that makes America America, and instead improve the lives of Americans.
shabbos kestenbaum
So I agree with you in terms of diagnosing the problem that we are not having birthrights at replacement level.
I agree with you that the decline of Christianity, thankfully it's not really happening in the United States and post-Charlie Kirk, we're actually seeing a resurgence of Christianity, particularly among Gen Z.
I think these are all accurate diagnoses of the problem.
Where I disagree, though, with is the solution.
So first of all, you talk about the decline of Christianity in Europe, for example.
So Germany, there are very, very few Jews living in Germany, mostly because the Germans killed all of them.
Yet in the last 10 years, Germany has taken in more than 5 million Muslim migrants into their society.
They don't assimilate, which is why you have, particularly in Western Europe, a tremendous problem with no-go zones in France and the UK, and yes, in Germany.
That has nothing to do with Jews because there is no no-hang on.
Let me make the point.
sulaiman ahmed
There is no no-vote zone.
shabbos kestenbaum
Sorry, let me speak.
That has nothing to do with Jews because there are no Jews living in Germany.
It has to do with policymakers, globalists, and leftists.
And I think we can all agree with that.
So I agree with you in terms of diagnosing the problem, but I think you're wildly wrong when it comes to who is to blame and what to do about it.
The second point is I agree with you.
Second point is that I forget.
Okay.
In terms of the military-industrial complex, I agree with you.
One of the greatest speeches ever given by an American president in the 20th century was Dwight Eisenhower's leaving speech, whatever it's called, when he speaks about the dangers of the military-industrial complex.
I think Donald Trump is actually wrong to produce a budget of $1.5 trillion to fund our military, where, as you just said, we have tremendous problems with our economy, with affordability, with homelessness.
However, when it comes to funding foreign wars, which, again, I'm not entirely sure how you're defining funding foreign wars here, but foreign aid and the money we give to Israel, which you keep mentioning time and time again, represents less than 1% of the federal budget.
And I would agree with you.
Let's stop foreign aid entirely.
But when we fixate on one country, Israel, which by the way, the United States military, for example, has the largest arsenal of UAVs in the world.
A lot of that relies on Israeli-made military equipment, like the Pioneer and the Hunter drones.
The U.S. Abram tanks are equipped with the trophy system.
The trophy system was developed by Israel.
And even then, even though Israel is so advantageous to the American military, I would still agree with you.
Let's limit foreign aid.
But come on.
And this is where I get bothered with like Nick Fuentes, the problems that young people have with affordability, which are real problems.
The economy sucks.
It has nothing to do with Israel.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid.
And if you do want to talk about foreign aid, it's bizarre to me that no one has mentioned.
We gave Somalia $1.2 billion in foreign aid last year.
You know, we still give money in foreign aid to the actual Taliban.
We give it to Qatar, and then Qatar actually gives cash to the Taliban.
This was brought up in a House Judiciary Committee just a few weeks ago.
We gave roughly $2 billion to Nigeria who are conducting a genocide against Christians.
So I agree with you.
Let's cut the foreign aid.
But what I get bothered by is when we tell young people that the reason our economy is so bad and the reason you're working two jobs is because of foreign conflicts.
I am telling you.
I'm happy to end foreign conflicts.
But I'm telling you, it's not true.
sulaiman ahmed
I appreciate if you do that for me.
shabbos kestenbaum
But I've been saying this for three years.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm saying you said that I'll be happy.
Let me just learn the 1% thing and then give me the other one.
I forgot your first point.
You left remind me.
shabbos kestenbaum
The first point was on Germans exactly.
75 million Muslim migrants and no Jews in the world.
sulaiman ahmed
So first of all, in terms of 1% foreign aid, it's actually a lot more than that.
And this is the problem.
This is kind of like a manipulation that occurs.
It's actually quite complex.
So what happens is, first of all, you get the 3.7 billion that goes to Israel.
shabbos kestenbaum
Then you have.
Hang on.
That's not.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm going to respond to that.
I know what the talking point is.
shabbos kestenbaum
So say you're right.
alex stein
It's not a tiny point.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm going to explain the money.
I'm going to explain.
shabbos kestenbaum
Don't worry.
90% of foreign aid to Israel, which again, I'm going to explain.
90% of it has to go back to American companies.
sulaiman ahmed
We know, we know.
We're going to come to that in a second.
I already know the talking point on that.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's not saying talking point.
sulaiman ahmed
It's a fact.
I'm going to explain how it works.
So in reality, first of all, you have the 3.7 billion.
Then you have the money that goes to Egypt.
Then you have the money that goes to Jordan.
All this money is really going for Israel, for Israel's.
unidentified
It's not true because you need to do that.
sulaiman ahmed
And then the other thing is, in terms of the money that goes into Israel, that's not counting the fact that when Israel's in war, which a lot of times they're always in war, is they give additional money.
So, for example, during the Biden administration, 2024, they gave about $20 billion in additional.
During Trump's administration, up until the ceasefire, they'd given $28 billion.
That doesn't even count.
The fact that during, for example, the 12-day war, even before that, even after that, they were replenishing Israel's defense systems.
It's why Netanyahu didn't want to go to war because he's like, flip, we got destroyed by Iran.
We need more defense missiles.
And so he needed more thad.
They need more RO3.
They knew R2, United States of America.
United Methodists of America was sending the thuds.
In addition to that, you basically have it where during the 12-day war, United States of America was spending money in terms of, from a military perspective, they were helping with the refueling.
They were helping them with all other aspects.
They were compensating other countries were helping the United States of Israel during the, because really the 12-day war was the world against Iran because you had basically Qatar on your side.
You had, you know, you guys hear Qatar, you love them when they're on your side, which they always are almost Qatar on your side.
You had the UAE on your side, you had Saudi Arabia on your side, you had Jordan on your side, you had Egypt on your side, you had France on your side, you had the United States of America on your side, you had UK on your side, you had Australia on your side, so all of them were defending, they were helping refueling or defense or different mechanisms within the 12-day war.
That doesn't even count the fact that, as I said, what happens is with the 3 billion, because let's forget all that, which is a huge amount already.
So when you said the $1.5 trillion budget, a lot of that, not all of it, but a lot of that is for Israel.
Now, in terms of the specific point you made about how it works with the military industrial complex, so what they do is this is just crazy.
They'll give $3 billion to Israel.
Israel has to spend it on the military industrial complex, right?
So you're still getting the free stuff.
Then what happens is that money goes to the military industrial complex, which the military industrial complex then end up getting the money.
And what is the military industrial complex?
It's a Zionist-run organization.
So it's like double dipping.
So what happens is you get the $3 billion, you get the military equipment, you then get the military equipment, and then you get the funding to the military industrial complex.
And the military complex use that money for more Zionist initiatives or on various other things.
In addition to that, what's even more crazy about all of this is not just the fact that the funding is significant.
Oh, so I forgot what the point is made, but let me go to the Germany point now.
I forgot what I said.
So the Germany point.
With Germany, yes, there isn't many Jews there.
That doesn't mean that they don't run things.
You see Germany now.
They are completely subservient to the Zionists.
You looked at the way they acted during the Israel-Gaza conflict.
You look at it now in terms of the position of anti-Semitism.
It's one of the few places in the world, a lot of the European countries, but one of the few European countries, which is very strict on Holocaust denial, which in my view, like you can agree with the numbers in the Holocaust or disagree, it should be just a rational conversation that people have.
And the reason why it becomes a big topic is because of the censorious nature of the conversation.
And so when you talk about, for example, Nick Fuentes, what was the point you made about Nick?
shabbos kestenbaum
Is when you're telling young people the reason you can't do the job, the reason you can't afford to do this.
sulaiman ahmed
What he's done is he's highlighted the issue, he's raised awareness, and now they put plans in place to ensure that, for example, they get America first candidates who succeed.
But when you don't diagnose the problem, then people are blind to it.
And that's what's been happening for a very long time.
alex stein
Well, let me make one quick point.
And Charbis, I do agree.
You know, that's why Benjamin Netanyahu is saying for 10 years that we don't need this money, but he doesn't need that 3 billion because he knows that our intelligence agencies and the CIA and Mossad are basically work together.
So in a way, our militaries, I would say, are very linked up.
So he knows that at the end of the day, if they need weapons or something, that they're going to get it.
And with that being said, I think Israel can defend itself.
I think a perfect example is this is when Benjamin Netanyahu gave a golden pager to President Donald Trump, which I kind of interpret that a little bit as a threat.
But my point is, is they're giving bombs.
They're going to bombs to random guys and blowing people up.
So I'm saying Israel is not this, you know, they're not that weak.
shabbos kestenbaum
They're pretty strong, powerful.
I agree, which is why anytime I've met with Israeli officials, I actually had a meeting once, I mean, not just with me, but with Prime Minister Beebe, and I said, you should not take American foreign aid.
He was in New York meeting with Trump, and they had an event with like young American Jewish students.
It's not like some conspiracy.
I called Bibi and said, hey, you got to quit the foreign aid.
By the way, the ex-head of the CIA, the ex-head of Mossad, he had an event a couple months ago because he wrote a book, which I went to, and he also gave out golden pagers to everyone.
Which I also thought was like, what's the implication of this?
sulaiman ahmed
Shut up, we know the implication.
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
sulaiman ahmed
You didn't even want to just die?
alex stein
No, sorry.
shabbos kestenbaum
Let's just say there's a reason it's an Israeli flag.
Sorry, need the 7K.
But again, when you talk about, well, the Zionists control Germany, the Zionists are controlling the military and industrial complex, what you are doing is you're not arguing to the point that we have alliances with countries all over the world, which is why, if you look at the Federalist Papers, for example, it is replete.
In fact, the most common term in the Federalist Papers is common defense.
It talks about the importance of having military alliances that defend American interests, right?
Thomas Jefferson, again, I keep going back to President Jefferson because he was the first president to recognize that we live, unfortunately, in a world and in a world that is quite dangerous.
So it is advantageous to advance American interests, not only domestically here at home, but also across the world, which is, again, I keep going back to the Barbary War because it really demonstrates that America first does not mean America alone.
So for example, we have a multi-billion dollar base in South Korea that we're spending money on every single year.
We have a multi-billion dollar base in Japan.
We have a multi-billion dollar base in Qatar.
We have a multi-billion dollar base in Germany.
But no one talks about those things because we recognize it's advantageous to have outposts of Western American democracy in those places.
sulaiman ahmed
Hang on, let me make the point.
shabbos kestenbaum
Hang on.
Let me make the point.
The only country that we fixate on, and again, I keep going back to this point, if I agree with you, let's cut the foreign aid, but it's a little silly when we only focus.
unidentified
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
sulaiman ahmed
But I'm just asking you, just for you to elucidate, not just the aid, but also the military support, also all the extension of the military.
shabbos kestenbaum
I agree with you.
sulaiman ahmed
Also not physically defending themselves.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, but that's not like the defendants.
No, let me explain.
sulaiman ahmed
And that's why I always say that.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, you're not letting me finish because I believe we support our allies if they're advancing American interests.
So for example, we've given, I think, $300 billion to Ukraine in the last four or five years alone.
It's interesting that you talk about Israel all the time.
You don't even mention Ukraine, which vastly overweighs how much Israel has gotten since its existence.
And what I would say, what I would say, but you're only against it because I brought it up because again, you only talk about one obsessive country.
unidentified
I'm not a sorry person.
sulaiman ahmed
I was talking to pro-Ukrainian.
shabbos kestenbaum
I am pro-Ukrainian.
I am pro-Taiwanese.
I'm pro-any country that advances American hegemony and American military dominance anywhere in the world.
Does that mean that they can only be, like Ukraine, exclusively reliant on one country?
Absolutely not.
Which is why I support America supporting the Ukrainian military, not to the tune of $300 billion, because I think if we only allow the Ukrainians to be reliant on another country, they will never be self-sufficient, which is why the regime change in countries like Iraq or Afghanistan never worked, because the Afghani army, the Iraqi army, were incompetent.
They were never able to use American military equipment because they were high, literally high, the entire time.
So I believe in advancing American military interests.
At this point in time, one of our greatest adversaries is Iran.
Iran tried assassinating President Trump, which is why President Trump said in the White House, actually, in the Oval Office, you can deny it, but you have to tell President Trump why he's wrong on this, where he actually left instructions in case he was killed.
We know for a fact that Iran was behind the 1983 Beirut bombing, which killed 243 U.S. Marines, which again, no one talks about.
We don't talk about the fact that Israel is the only country that is fighting Islamists and that actually kills Hezbollah fighters, for example, that are on the FBI's most wanted.
There was a senior Hezbollah leader who was in charge of another embassy bombing.
I'm forgetting his name in a second, but I'll look it up.
Israel killed him last year.
He had a $5 million bounty from the United States government, and Israel did it for free.
So does that mean Israel can exclusively be reliant on American military?
Absolutely not.
But let's be honest with ourselves.
Israel, in many cases, does advance American interests.
And I'm happy to hear arguments that they don't.
But unfortunately, all you're pointing to is this conspiratorial that Jews are controlling it, that the American military-industrial complex, which I have many problems with, are controlled by the Zionists.
Which, again, I'm not sure why.
I'm not sure why you're making that case that they're in the pocket of Zionists when they support a whole host of countries, which is why they're the military-industrial complex, which we should talk about.
It's a problem, but stop fixating on one country.
And again, the last point I'll make and then I'll stop talking is even if I were to take all of your numbers into consideration, which is true, the $16 billion authored by President Biden and the roughly $20 billion authored by President Trump, even though a significant amount of that still has to be spent on American military technology, even if we were to take all of those numbers into consideration, you are still talking about a fraction of a fraction.
So I agree with you.
We are spending way too much.
We spend $7 trillion of our federal budget every single year.
The problem we face in our country, which I'm American.
I don't know if you have American citizenship, but I've lived here my whole life.
This is my country.
I was born here.
I'm going to die here.
The problems we face in our economy have very, very little to do with how we interact with foreign countries.
It just doesn't.
The biggest problem we have, the biggest problem, are our entitlement programs, Social Security, welcome.
bo french
Well, you mentioned that you're bringing that back domestically.
We have devolved into a conversation about foreign policy in the Middle East, and that's not at all what we get.
unidentified
Let me just respond to that.
bo french
Let's talk about America.
We just had an election that talked about, you know, I mean, one of them is one of the biggest issues.
You've had a lot of time to speak.
unidentified
It's two against one.
sulaiman ahmed
It is two against one.
bo french
So, yeah, but I've not had as much time.
So let me say something here.
We just had an election where one of the big themes was, you know, no more foreign entanglements in these forever wars, not funding these forever wars.
And I think, at least in my party, the Republican Party, that the majority of Republicans do agree with that.
We support President Trump and that.
And look, he has done a few things globally, but it's been very limited compared to many of his predecessors.
And I think Americans support that and appreciate that about Donald Trump.
You know, the 1.5 trillion, I don't know, that's up for debate.
We can talk about that further.
I think sometimes Trump says things that are, you know, it's all part of a negotiation or something else is going on that we're not aware of.
But what I want to focus on is really like, what are we doing that is America first, right?
That is the movement that I associate with, focusing on what does it mean to be an American?
What is happening in our culture?
What is happening in our society, our cities.
And I think generally speaking, the majority of Americans are looking around saying things have changed dramatically in the last 20 or 30 years.
And you could point to, well, we were involved in Somalia under the Clinton administration and they brought a bunch of Somalis in and that was wrong.
We shouldn't have done that.
We've allowed, during the Biden administration, we allowed 20 million illegal aliens to come over, which, by the way, were not majority Mexicans.
They were from 150 different countries.
So people from all over the world were coming here because they saw it as their opportunity to get in and get into our system where for money, obviously.
Now, some of those are just receiving money.
Some of those are working hard.
I concede that not all immigrants are bad.
But when you have lower birth rates and lower job acceptance among people who were from America originally, that is what's creating all this frustration.
And while there are online personalities that I vehemently disagree with, there is this sense that there is this helplessness that people kind of like under 30 have lived their whole life.
Now, I'm old enough that I've sort of seen the shift, but these people under 30 recognize that they can't get into college because of their skin color.
They can't get into college because they're male or they're not LGBTQ or whatever.
Like there are all these categories that colleges are working overtime to import people.
There are jobs that are working overtime to import people who are not Americans.
And I think our policy should be: let's focus on what is good for Americans.
And there's not enough people doing that.
I think there's not enough politicians willing to do that.
I talk to a lot of voters.
Voters want people who tell the truth.
And I may not be right about everything.
I'm probably wrong about a lot of things.
I don't really care.
But what I always endeavor to do is tell you the truth about what I believe and what I will do.
And there's not enough people doing that.
And this notion that we're just going to admit the whole world into America, I mean, we've let roughly, you know, in the last 60 years, we've let in roughly 100 million people into America who are not Americans.
They're still not Americans.
I mean, you talked about a generation of Somalis who've been here for 20 years.
They still don't speak any English.
I mean, so this is the problem.
Letting in a couple immigrants here and there, I think most people are okay with that.
And I think historically that has proven to be okay.
But the problem is there has been a rapid acceleration in the last, you know, call it generation or two, where we've let in so many that we are witnessing in real time the destruction of our culture.
The same way Western Europe is also losing its culture, I would argue.
I mean, letting in millions of, you know, predominantly Muslims there.
That is the predominant immigrant in Western Europe.
We are watching in real time the destruction, the destruction of their culture.
And I think most people don't want that to happen here.
alex stein
So you just made this one point because everybody's on Alex and Deep Thought.
But this is for Chavez, because it was talking about back to the military-industrial complex.
I think you and I both agree that the IDF is a very good military, right?
They're strong military.
unidentified
Who?
alex stein
The IDF.
I'm just saying there, I think that's kind of just understood.
And this is what frustrates me because, you know, obviously I support Israel.
But this is what frustrates me is that when I have to do these debates, the IDF is arguably one of the best militaries in the world.
But then you look at the civilian casualty rate in Gaza, it's 84% civilian.
So I just think it's a good idea.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's not 84%.
bo french
It's not a real problem.
alex stein
That's the IDF.
The IDF is not.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, no, no, no.
alex stein
What they said.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, no, no.
I'll explain the statistic for you, but do you want to do this now?
I don't want to make a statistic real quick.
sulaiman ahmed
Let me respond to his previous point.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's close to 80, even if it's 60%.
It's not even close to 80.
alex stein
Oh, come on.
I'll tell you that's the IDF's number.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's not the IDF's number, but I want to let you finish it and then I'll respond.
You're convexing me right now.
alex stein
It's not IDF.
Okay, so you don't think any civilians die in Gaza?
shabbos kestenbaum
No, of course civilians die in Gaza.
alex stein
That's what I'm saying.
I just think if America was going and indiscriminately killing civilians, which that does happen in our wars, we've killed civilians probably in Argentina and that evasion.
I'm just saying, I think that's why people do have a frustration with Israel.
And I think that's why young people, they look at TikTok, they see that, now it's bought, you know, now it's totally changed.
But you know what I mean?
So I guess I get frustrated when I see a military that is an excellent military making the world not necessarily a better place by killing civilians that really aren't Hamas.
shabbos kestenbaum
Sure.
So first of all, again, I agree with you.
The IDF is more than able and equipped to handle their own fights.
Interestingly enough, Bibi has told President Trump we don't want American foreign aid.
And President Trump, according to J Insider, released this morning, has said, no, no, we need it.
Why?
Because he actually doesn't want Israel to be competitive and competing against American military companies, which I think validates your point about the military-industrial complex.
But again, I agree with you.
I am America first.
America first means we should advance, whether it's domestic policy or foreign policy, any policy if it helps Americans.
Every single relationship we have with any country should be from the standpoint of, is this helping the American people?
Yes or no?
Whether it's Israel, whether it's Ukraine, whether it's Taiwan, whether it's Japan, whether it's China or Russia, if this is going to help the American people, let's do it.
And if it won't help the American people, let's not do it.
In terms of the 84%, that number would you fight for America if they went against Jewish people?
No, absolutely.
In fact, not only have historically Jewish Americans fought for the United States.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but what about if you've got family members?
unidentified
I'm registered.
shabbos kestenbaum
Hang on, hang on.
I'm registered for the draft right now.
sulaiman ahmed
But what about if you had family members in the IDF?
shabbos kestenbaum
I'm registered for the draft right now.
Wait, acknowledge that point.
sulaiman ahmed
No, no.
shabbos kestenbaum
You said when I fight for America, not only would I honor America, but yes, and I know you're proud to do it.
Had America called me.
sulaiman ahmed
That's my question.
unidentified
What's the question?
sulaiman ahmed
So have you got family members in the IDF?
shabbos kestenbaum
I had a brother, yeah.
unidentified
Okay.
sulaiman ahmed
So would you fight against him?
shabbos kestenbaum
If America called me to fight, absolutely.
sulaiman ahmed
So you fight against your brother.
shabbos kestenbaum
As I've said numerous times, my loyalties is to the United States.
sulaiman ahmed
But not your brothers.
shabbos kestenbaum
What do you mean, not my brothers?
sulaiman ahmed
Because your brother was fighting for Israel.
alex stein
Do you agree with the future?
shabbos kestenbaum
Chavez, do you think that's okay that they had the United States?
alex stein
No, no, no.
unidentified
We don't.
alex stein
Well, I mean, that's a very drafted thing.
The IDF does have forced conscription.
And I'm anti-war, so I'm against forced conscription.
shabbos kestenbaum
Yeah, the problem is Israel's in a really shitty neighborhood, so they don't really have much of a, they don't have an excuse, which is why South Korea has the same thing because when your neighbor is fucking North Korea, you don't really have any options, which is why actually some of the most badass women on planet Earth are actually Israeli women who serve in the IDF, having these massive machine guns as they're going to the supermarket.
But absolutely, again, this is why I kind of hate how the Twitter verse has dumbed down our nuance of political disagreement.
My loyalties are to the United States.
And a lot of people watching will say, oh, you're named Misha Baskostomen when you wear a Keepa.
sulaiman ahmed
I think it's complex when there's a lot of people who are not.
But I'm telling you as facts.
shabbos kestenbaum
And there are lots of American Jews who serve for America.
So I'm telling you as fact.
There are Jews who live all over the world.
There are Jews who fought for England.
There are Jews who fought for American citizens.
And I am telling you.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm talking about American citizens.
shabbos kestenbaum
I am telling you, American Jews didn't serve for a foreign army.
And I am telling you there are American Jewish citizens who fought for the United States.
And we were proud to do so.
We fought and died for this country.
And we will continue to fight for the future.
sulaiman ahmed
There's the American Muslims who fought for the U.S.
shabbos kestenbaum
I agree with you.
We're not in disagreement here.
I think you're trying to get me like on a campus.
sulaiman ahmed
No, no, no, I'm not trying to get it.
Got you.
I'm trying to explain to you the problem you have with the dual allegiance issue and why this is important.
There's a few points I need to respond to.
shabbos kestenbaum
But if you want to make that point, because again, I wanted to answer your question, Alex.
But if you want to make that point, then you also have to contend with the fact that in England, for example, between 2012 and 2021, there were more British Muslims who served ISIS than served the UK Home Army.
sulaiman ahmed
In terms of numbers, I don't need to diverge that.
shabbos kestenbaum
Again, you can fact-check yourself.
Anyway, so if you want to talk about Jewish allegiance, even though we fought for America in every single war, but you don't want to talk about the market.
But this is the point of this, which is radical Islam.
I think it's a little disingenuous.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but then what it shows is radical Judaism that they're basically serving a foreign nation.
Now, in terms of what you mentioned, I agree with you, by the way.
I think immigration is a major issue.
And immigration, when you allow a large number of people into the country, it actually harms the working class.
It's the rich billionaire class who want cheap labor into the country.
And then what happens is the working class people, the working-class American struggles.
I agree with you about immigration.
In terms of your point, in terms of the military, the military, the issue you've got is from the military perspective, like I said, you've basically ignored the fact that all the money that's been spent on Israel and other issues.
In terms of Ukraine, the issue is that you support it.
And this is the problem that you support another example of a war that is a military-industrial complex war.
I'm anti-war.
I don't like war whatsoever.
I don't want any war, any kind of money going to foreign nations to be able to do it.
A war where, what's happened?
Ukraine and Russia, a lot of white people are being, and this is why I'm against it, right?
And another example of where a lot of white people have been dying, right?
Russians are white, Ukrainians are white, both of them are dying.
Military industrial complex war.
And you support it, I don't.
And this is where they have another issue.
And in terms of when you look at, for example, America, and you look at Saudi Arabia, who and UAE and Qatar have given the United States of America trillions of dollars, despite them giving the US so much money, trillions, they basically make sure, and this is basically embarrassment for them, actually, the fact that they get much worse military equipment than Israel.
Israel gets better F-35 than even the Saudis, even though Saudis paying them and Israel is receiving the money.
It just shows the dominant control that they have.
And in terms of Gaza, I think he made a very astute point, which is this: that in reality, when you look at the number of innocent civilians that have died in Gaza, it is unbelievable.
And what Israel has shown through certain specific attacks, and I think that's what he was mentioning: is you look at the Pedro attack, or you look at, for example, when Ismail Hania was killed, or you look at, for example, when Hassan Nasurullah was killed, those were targeted, precise attacks which showed very good military capability.
And yet, we haven't seen the exact same thing in Gaza.
And you've seen the disproportionate number.
His figure of 87%, as far as I remember, was from the U.S. State Department.
unidentified
Let me respond to that.
sulaiman ahmed
I actually think that I think that figure's wrong.
I'm with you.
I think the rule is fire.
Yeah, it's much higher.
shabbos kestenbaum
It's 98%.
sulaiman ahmed
When you look at the hundreds, I don't agree with the Hamas Hamas.
What do you guys call it?
The Hamas-Gaza numbers, how Hamas ministry, Gaza numbers.
I think the numbers are much more higher.
I think there's certain Lancelot and certain studies that believe it's a lot higher.
And I think the numbers are a lot more higher.
And I think when I look at the number of civilians that died, never mind died, injured, have been injured, or even the psychological damage that's happened to them, the millions, is just unbelievable.
shabbos kestenbaum
I agree with you that war is bad, but the problem with our mainstream media, for example, is they conflate war and the casualties of war with a genocide.
Let me just deconstruct everything you said from one to one to three.
First of all, when it comes to the F-35s that the United States is selling the Saudis versus the F-35s, the United States is selling the Israelis, they're selling them the exact same F-35s.
Difference with the Israelis is because, again, probably because of the military industrial complex, they're so innovative, they've actually created modifications, improvements, and adaptions to the F-35s.
You can fact-check me right now.
Israelis, let me let me know.
unidentified
Let me make the point, and then you can interrupt.
shabbos kestenbaum
The Israelis have made innovations and adaptions to the F-35s.
The Saudis haven't.
Israel is one of the most militaristically adaptive countries on planet Earth.
So, that's first of all, in terms of the Qatar and Saudi Arabian UAE, have given the United States trillions of dollars.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I mean, we used to buy Saudi oil up until we became energy independent, which is much better that way.
So, it's not that they were giving us money.
It's also number three, in terms of about, you know, you hate war so much.
Well, Saudi is conducting an actual genocide against the civilians of Yemen.
The people of Yemen are still facing one of the greatest civilian casualties right now on planet Earth.
But again, no one talks about it because it doesn't involve Israel, which again, I don't really get this, which brings me to my other point.
If you want to talk about civilian death, let's assume of the 60,000 people who were killed in Gaza, let's assume 100% of them are civilians, 100%, which isn't true.
Let's assume it's 100%.
There were more civilians in Sudan who were killed two weeks ago, two weeks ago, who were killed than the entirety of the Gaza-Israel war.
If you look at the Gaza-Israel war, it is 100% true.
More civilians were killed in Sudan in one week, two weeks ago, than the entirety of the Gaza-Israel war since October 7th.
If you want to talk about human casualties, if you look at all the wars happening right now, Israel, Gaza, it doesn't even crack in the top 10.
Now, is it a terrible war where civilians are being killed?
Absolutely.
But it's interesting that the examples you talk about, Ismail-Farania, where Isma'el el-Haniyah, for example, where was Isma'el-Haniyah?
He was hiding out in a penthouse in Qatar.
Where does Hamas hide out?
Do they hide out in penthouses in Gaza?
Hang on.
Excuse me.
In Iran, you're right.
You're absolutely right.
He was killed in Iran, but his base was in Qatar at the four seasons before they kicked him out.
But you're right.
He was killed in Iran in a penthouse.
How many penthouses are Hamas commanders like Yahweh Sinwar hiding out in?
Zero.
Which is why, again, you can fact-check me all you would like.
There is video, I'm telling you, there is video of Yahwa Sinwar right after they launched the attack on October 7th.
Where did he go?
He went underground.
He went into tunnels with his wife.
His wife was actually, she's pretty obese.
She had a Birkin bag with her, and they went into the tunnel system.
You know how many Gazan civilians were allowed into the tunnels?
Zero.
Why?
Because, let me make the point.
Because as Muhammad Def said explicitly on Al Jazeera shortly after October 7th, the point of the tunnel system and the point of receiving humanitarian aid is in order to ensure the survival, the survivability of our fighters.
Everything must come at the price of our fighters.
Why is it talking about human agency, for example?
We give the Palestinians roughly $700 million in foreign aid every single year.
What we get in return, I'm not entirely clear, but we give them about $700 million in foreign aid every single year.
Why is it that the populace, the elected government of the populace, Hamas, have not built a single bomb shelter for their populace?
Why is that?
Why is it that you have a jihadi death call, talk about radical Islam, who have said explicitly, explicitly, that the ultimate goal is not a two-state solution, which I believe in.
I believe in peace and coexistence.
I believe Palestinians have a right to self-determination and should have their own country.
They don't say that.
They say, and again, college campus protesters say this the whole time: we don't want no 48.
We want all of it.
They say this explicitly.
Don't listen to me as a right-wing Prager U, Jew, whatever.
Listen to Hamas themselves.
So in terms of the civilian death count, are there civilians being killed?
Absolutely.
The 84%, the reason I say it's not 84%, is because what that was, it was a study of named combatants.
So for example, if you're shooting an RPG at a Golani brigade in Khan Yunis, for example, and they don't know your name, they're not going to write down your name.
They're just going to say a terrorist.
So what that study said is, oh, well, if we looked at the named combatants, it's only roughly 17%.
It doesn't mean the people who were killed, 84% of whom were civilians.
But again, is there a high civilian death toll?
Absolutely.
The problem is, though, is what you've allowed, if you tell Israel, for example, forget about your hostages, forget about dismantling the jihadi death cult, you can't fight them because, you know, you'll kill civilians.
What you have done is you have now given permission to every single radical Islamist terrorist group, like al-Shabaab, like Hamas, like Hezbollah, like the Houthis.
What you have now told them is build your terrorist infrastructure underneath hospitals.
Build them underneath schools because it's safe.
It's base.
Because Western countries are held to a different standard.
We can't touch them because it's built underground.
I feel horrible for every single dead Gazan.
And I put the blame squarely, squarely on the genocidal death cult who pillaged and burnt and killed every single Muslim and Jew and Christian they can find.
If you don't want dead civilians, then news flash.
Don't invade a sovereign country, kill 400 civilians at a music festival, and then say, well, we're hiding underneath hospitals, so you can't get us.
That's not how war is.
alex stein
We got 10 minutes and we're all going to get a police statement.
But you did see there was an IDF soldier in trial saying that they were told to stand down on October 7th.
shabbos kestenbaum
No, okay, so I'm glad you brought that up.
There should be a point.
sulaiman ahmed
Let me respond.
shabbos kestenbaum
Well, he brought up the point.
Let me talk about this.
unidentified
Let me respond to you first, because this is just crazy.
No, no, no.
sulaiman ahmed
You know, you made so many points, though.
Let me know.
unidentified
Yeah, let him respond.
sulaiman ahmed
No, but that's just a, well, it's not even that important.
But the thing is, like, look, there's a lot of points we made there.
So let me go through it.
So, first of all, there's been a huge number of civilian casualties.
It's definitely not 60,000.
In terms of Yahya Sinwa, it's interesting you mentioned Yahya Sinwa.
How did he actually die?
He died on the front lines.
Would Netanyahu ever go on the front lines?
unidentified
No, he wouldn't.
He just denied that.
shabbos kestenbaum
That's not true.
unidentified
He denied it.
shabbos kestenbaum
He denied that.
unidentified
Why was he?
sulaiman ahmed
Almost everything you said was false.
And I'll wait for you to finish.
shabbos kestenbaum
Okay.
It's categorized.
sulaiman ahmed
Everything you said was false, but I waited for you.
alex stein
We're not going to have that much time to respond.
We got less.
sulaiman ahmed
So let me be clear on this.
And in terms of this claim that Gaza could have been brilliant, in reality, what was happening before October the 7th, what would Israel do?
They would regularly bomb Gaza.
200 people just in the West Bank were killed in 2023 before October the 7th.
October the 7th itself was specifically a military operation, which went wrong.
There was specifically a directive to get Israeli military personnel and to basically swap them for Palestinian women and children that are held in Israeli prisons without any trial, who are basically hostages.
The real death cult is the Israeli Zionist death cult, which murders, kills, which wants to go to war, which wants to kill and destroy as many countries as possible.
And in terms of the, for example, the and by the way, I disagree with Yahya Sinwa.
I don't think he should have been on the front line.
He should have been, for example, in a more safer place because in reality, you can't have your leadership be decapitated.
This is why Netanyahu makes sure he's not on the front line.
He makes sure why his son's in Florida.
In reality, when you look at these people in Qatar, they were there specifically based on the directive of Obama for negotiations.
And when you look at specifically, they weren't living in.
This is just New York Post, which is completely Zionist controlled, who literally make this claim that they were some rich billionaire.
There's no evidence whatsoever that they're billionaire.
They were living very, very simple lives.
They didn't even give any money.
The children didn't inherit anything.
And many of their children, for example, Ismail Hanya, many of his children, grandchildren, also died in Gaza.
In terms of the reason why Gaza was never rebuilt is because of a regular bombing by Israel, regular destruction by Israel, even before October the 7th, ensuring that basically Israel had control of the land, sea, and air.
If you don't have access to your own ports, if you haven't got access to your own basically ports, you haven't got access to your own borders.
You don't have a land.
Israel decided what went in and what went out.
Even before October the 7th, they had them almost on a calorie diet.
They never used to allow much stuff in there.
Never mind the fact that when you look at specifically within Gaza, it's not about the tunnels.
You saw, for example, specifically Palestinians being killed.
You saw situations where there was gunshots to the head, gunshots to the heart of children.
Children were being murdered.
Children were being assassinated.
This was a direct attempt to eradicate the entire population.
And the reason is, and you mentioned al-Shaba, it's quite interesting.
You mentioned al-Shabaab because al-Shabaab is, again, someone who has allegiance to Israel.
They were against Hamas.
They were basically very, and if you look at the clans within Gaza that are against Hamas, they specifically are not against Israel.
So as an example, the Dogmash clan, which you probably know about, they basically had taken a hostage, a British hostage, a British reporter as hostage.
And what happened?
Hamas negotiated his exit.
And what that reporter said was, I was really astounded.
These people live in Gaza, but they're not against Israel.
They're against UK.
And so it kind of shows you the psychology of these extremists within there, how for some reason, you're in Gaza, you're basically being occupied for some reason against it.
Also, in terms of these claims about tunnels being under hospitals and mosques and these type of things in Gaza, this has all been debunked.
There was these claims where this guy, the Harari, I believe his name is Ahigazi.
He basically goes and he goes to a calendar and he's like, oh, look, this is his shifts.
These are the shifts of the Hamas members.
And it ended up being a calendar in Arabic, which said Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
So all of this is propaganda.
And you know who actually uses human shields?
Israel, who has a Mossad headquarters in the center of Israel, who actually uses human shields is Israel, where they have military bases very close to the human population.
unidentified
And they don't want to be able to do that.
bo french
That is why your point is.
alex stein
I'm not going to have that animal directive.
But we're about to do it.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm debuking his point.
bo french
All you've talked about the whole time is Israel.
We're here to talk about Islam in America, and you're talking about Israel every chance you get.
sulaiman ahmed
Yeah, no, because I'm deboking his points.
shabbos kestenbaum
Well, to be fair, you brought up Israel.
But can I respond to all those points?
alex stein
It was the closing arguments.
Okay, first of all, Bo, why don't you start by giving your closing argument, and then we'll go to Shabbos and we'll let you have the last word.
bo french
Yeah, I find it interesting that we came here to talk about Islam in America and the threat to our culture.
And this whole conversation has just devolved into, you know, defense or attack against Israel or Gaza or whatever.
And it's just, this is not relevant to most Americans.
Most Americans are worried about what's happening in America.
And that's what the last election was for.
That's what Donald Trump has been focused on.
It's what the America First Movement is about.
We need to be focused on America.
And, you know, to your point earlier, of course, if we're going to act anywhere else in the world, it should be for the interests of America.
I'm not against action elsewhere in the world, but I'm against forever wars.
And I think most of the Republicans who voted for Donald Trump also feel the same way.
But we need to be focusing on what is happening here and the destruction of our culture.
I mean, I'm tired of just watching it happen in real time, and no one is talking about it.
Everyone wants to talk about something else or blame somebody else.
It's our responsibility here.
We have primary elections this year.
I say go out and vote for the people who are going to fight for an America-first agenda, predominantly.
I mean, that is the most important thing that we can focus on right now.
And this allowing third worlders to come in and bring their centuries-old blood feuds into our country.
I'm sorry.
It's just time we put that aside and we focus on what's best for Americans.
shabbos kestenbaum
Sure.
I mean, all the claims you made are demonstrably false, but this is for a different podcast for a different time.
The reason I responded about Israel is because you brought up Israel first, which brings me to my real point, which is what Bo just said.
I agree.
Hate Israel as much as you want, hate Jews as much as you want, hate Bibi as much as you want.
That's not going to improve your life in any measurable way.
There are real threats facing Western civilization.
The demoralization of young people is part of that.
Another threat, a critical threat, is that we have pockets of individuals, primarily from Muslim-dominated countries, who do not assimilate into our Western way of life, who commit on a perverse and discriminate level disproportionately more amounts of fraud, cannot speak English.
In fact, in Somalia, there was a lawyer two years ago after a Somalia Muslim was convicted of fraud.
And the defense literally was, well, in his culture, it's not considered taboo to steal from your government.
Jews aren't making those arguments in court.
Christians aren't making that argument in court.
But unfortunately, a significant amount of the Muslim American community, they are making that argument in court.
The second thing, which I think is really fundamental, is I agree with you.
There are attacks on free speech.
It's coming from many different directions.
So let me be absolutely clear.
Free speech is the pinnacle of our society.
It's why it's the First Amendment and not the 37th Amendment.
It is the First Amendment.
And you can and should be able to hate as many people as you like.
I don't think it's a very good strategy for doing well in life, but you have the legal right to do it.
There's no such thing as hate speech.
It doesn't exist.
Hate speech is free speech.
You can say the N-word.
You could call me a kite.
Again, I don't recommend it.
I think it's just not being a good person.
But legally, you can and you should, and you are absolutely be able to say it.
The criticism somehow that Jews or Zionists or whatever language you're using are attacking free speech, are trying to censor people, that has been true, not with Zionism, but with the way X was handled when it was run by leftists.
X, thank God for Elon Musk, is a bastion of free speech.
It's also a bastion of disinformation, but that's a different problem.
And it should remain that way, which is why when you go on Twitter, for example, the only thing people seem to obsess about is Israel, which brings me to what Bo was saying.
I think Israel, kind of like transgenderism, reminds me of Roman emperors or the Coliseum, where they would say, yeah, there are major problems facing our society, but let's just have the populace watch lions tear our soldiers apart because that'll distract them.
I think Israel is a distraction.
I think the trans stuff is a distraction.
I think sports betting is kind of a distraction.
We have real major issues in our country, but unfortunately, only like two or three issues are ever discussed because it's red meat and this is going to blow up online.
Meanwhile, our communities of Christian, Bible-believing Americans are being, yes, invaded by a radical minority of people who do not share our views, who do not share our values.
And I think you and I have a lot in common because we believe in the West.
We believe in American emancipation and American values.
But so many people we're bringing into our country don't, which brings me to my last point.
Just yesterday, a federal district court ruled that it was improper to have released Mahmoud Khalil and he needs to be redetained.
And you can bookmark this.
He will be deported back to Syria or Algeria or wherever the hell he came from.
We'll see.
It has nothing to do with speech.
It has to do with the fact that he lied on his visa application.
It has to do with the fact that he was the head of the Columbia University Apartheid Investment Coalition, which forget about the fact that they handed out pamphlets to friends of mine on Columbia's campus encouraging support for Hamas.
Forget about the fact they called for the eradication of Western civilization.
They organized the riot of Hamilton Hall, where they took two Hispanic maintenance workers hostage.
In fact, one of the maintenance workers is now suing Columbia University.
They sent police officers to the hospital.
They defaced and trespassed on private property.
The fundamental issue with Mahmoud Khalil, which is indicative of a much larger problem, how in the fuck did Mahmoud Khalil get into this country?
How is he a net positive in any measurable way?
And we have a crazy broken immigration system.
Thank God Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Kirsty Noam are trying to reform this.
But we have to really ask ourselves, who are we letting in?
Why are we letting them in?
And are they going to be a net positive to our country?
There are many Muslims and many Jews and many Christians from different countries who are net positives.
But unfortunately, there is a disproportionate amount of individuals coming from Muslim-majority nations who are not net positives.
Mahmoud Khalil, Mehdi Hassan, the list goes on.
alex stein
And I'm going to give you two minutes, but it is kind of weird that the 9-11 terrorists got citizenship after they died.
Okay, go ahead.
Two minutes, because we're about to interpret it.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay, so just to respond, first of all, I agree with you that there needs to be a focus on America and hence why you see in the Republican Party a big split.
It's America first or Israel first.
And that has completely been demonstrated in terms of the Republican Party.
And I think what the Republican Party needs to move to is an America first model, which isn't going to war for foreign nations.
Now, in terms of specifically what you said, one of the biggest problems we have with these extreme radical Zionists is the fact that they are destroying American values.
But it's just that politicians know that they can't speak about it because they won't get elected.
And so in reality, if you look at it, this direct attack on free speech, you look at, for example, let's take Mahmoud Khalil as an example.
Mahmoud Khalil, he didn't partake in any kind of extremist act.
He didn't support any kind of extremist organization.
Marco Rubio was quite clear that the reason he's been deported is because of foreign influence or foreign reasons.
In addition to that, the claims made about him working for UNRWA, he was working for UNRWA as an unpaid intern or whatever it is.
So in reality, he didn't.
This is just basically you got what happened to Mahmoud Khalil in Colombia was he was doing Shaba dinners with Jews, so he didn't hear Jews.
He was basically the negotiator between the university and the students.
What's Mohammedan now?
Basically negotiating with people, discussing and dealing with each other.
Only reason Mahmoud Khalil was taken out was because free speech, because they want to end any kind of conversation in universities.
Same thing happened to Ramesa Ostak, same thing happened to Muhammad Tal.
Same thing happened to many other students.
And worse than that, what they did was, and this is the worst thing, because universities are the place where you can disagree, where ideas and thoughts are made, and then people learn them, and then people progress, and then you change your ideas and views.
You mentioned you were left-wing and then you became right-wing.
So people change their views and ideas through university.
The thing is, what happened?
Because of the Zionist control of the United States of America, where First Amendment has been hammered inside the United States of America, they basically deployed the IHRA definition in universities for universities to get funding or for universities to get any kind of support or for universities not to be harmed by the U.S. administration.
They have to deploy the IHRA definition.
What is the IHRA definition, you may ask?
It is basically, if you say that the Jews kill Jesus, you will be expelled from university.
You're not allowed to be studied.
If you believe that basically certain Jewish people have due loyalty, like for example, I do believe anyone who serves IDF has dual loyalty.
You will be deported.
If you believe that, for example, Israel, the rules for Israel is different to another country.
These are just dialogues we have.
We just had a dialogue.
No, I think we respect.
We don't hate each other.
We don't dislike each other.
We disagree with each other.
But why would it that if I was in university, I would not be suspended.
I would be expelled.
This is the way of controlling people's minds.
This is creating the chilling effect, the fear in the hearts of Americans that if you speak against them, if you speak against these radical people, that you will be expelled.
You won't have a Korea.
You saw the doxing of these students, what happened in Akama University, things happened, where doxing of these students, their crees were taken away, their job application was taken away.
This is to say that, look, either you comply, you don't have First Amendment rights, you can't speak, you can't think.
If you are, you will be removed from the United States of America.
You'll be deported.
You'll be suspended from university.
And now you're seeing this massive push towards, you know, for example, within social media, you look at the head of Meta who said that they want to stop, they want to basically clamp down on anti-Semitism.
There's this specific attack against anti-Semitism.
But if you look at it, people attack Islam all the time.
People can make crees of attacking Islam.
No problem whatsoever.
But when it comes to one specific group, it's not like that.
And I think that there should be a consistency.
Well, you talk about Israeli terrorism, but you're too talking about that.
But the thing is, all I want is consistency.
And this is what we saw today.
There wasn't consistency.
That's the only thing I asked about.
Whatever rules you apply, well, I'm going to respond on that future.
alex stein
I got to go.
shabbos kestenbaum
30 seconds.
And then we'll all get someone.
Yeah, exactly.
alex stein
Well, Shabbat, Shabbat.
shabbos kestenbaum
Haram, there you go.
Very, very quickly.
First of all, the idea that anti-Semitism is not a thing on the internet, again, go on Twitter right now.
The only thing that people are obsessed about is hating Israel.
We spoke about America, but you keep bringing up Israel.
I don't care about Israel.
I agree with you.
And I just want to mention the college campuses very, very quickly.
In 2023, there was a Supreme Court case brought by Asian American students against Harvard University.
It turned out that Harvard University was actually ranking Asian American applicants based on their personalities.
During the Supreme Court hearing, which was students for fair admissions, it also turned out during the discovery process that Harvard University was de-ranking white Christian men in support of blacks and Hispanics.
So there was documented cases of actual civil rights violations perpetrated by Harvard University.
We sued Harvard University over their civil rights violations under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act.
We were allowed by a judge, particularly discrimination against Jewish Americans.
We were allowed by a judge based on the facts that we were presenting to actually go to trial.
The first case of its kind pertained to the discrimination of Jewish Americans on a college campus to be allowed to go to trial.
So the idea that Harvard University, which was discriminating against Asian Americans, which was discriminating against white Christian men, which was also discriminating against Jewish Americans, is somehow clamping down on free speech.
Harvard University was ranked by the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expressions four years ago 248th out of 248 American universities when it came to free speech.
This is an institution that disinvites controversial speakers who are deemed transphobic.
This is an institution that demoted an African-American professor coming out against Black Lives Matter.
This is an institution that unenrolled 12 admitted students when it turned out they had posted a sexist meme in a private WhatsApp group.
So are there attacks on free speech?
Absolutely.
But the people who are fighting back against it are people like me, are pro-America, America First Jews who say that the pattern of silencing and the pattern of attacking the First Amendment right is insanity.
And for the millionth fucking time, people can and should criticize Jews in Israel as much as you freaking want.
But the idea that somehow Harvard University or any of these institutions of higher learning, which are impediments or indicative of crony capitalism, were in any way interested in free speech or liberalism.
No, it is political indoctrination where students take it from me.
I was there.
Students are being told to hate the United States, to hate Western civilization.
And everything you said about Mahmoud Khalil is demonstrably not true.
He violated the law.
And if you think this is some Zionist attack, then you're going to have to explain why three courts thus far have all said, yes, he has violated the law.
sulaiman ahmed
Okay, so just coming back to you.
By the way, I agree with what you said, by the way.
And you demonstrated the issue.
So Harvard did basically oppress Asian Americans.
They did oppress white Christians.
There was no caucus against them.
There was no defunding of them.
When did it all happen?
It happened when this guy was, when these guys basically took Harvard University to call conservative discrimination against the United States.
alex stein
People are the best attorneys.
unidentified
You know what I mean?
sulaiman ahmed
Conservative hands on the Zambian Carpenter.
Let me finish my point.
And so in reality, that's what it is.
And Harvard University, I agree with you.
I think these institutes are too big.
They have too much money.
You see, for example, at Harvard University, how much did they give?
They give $150 million to Buchanan's institute, which is which promotes a Zionist exactly.
unidentified
You know what I'm talking about?
shabbos kestenbaum
They get $6 billion from Qatar.
sulaiman ahmed
Yeah, so in reality, no, again, that's not true.
unidentified
Because what happens is, I'm against Qatar.
sulaiman ahmed
So this doesn't work on me because I think Qatar's in alliance with the United States.
shabbos kestenbaum
You only focus on the one person.
sulaiman ahmed
No, no, go ahead.
In terms of Qatar, the reason they've got that money, that money is specifically to put American institutes in Qatar.
But that being said, I don't even like Qatar.
Qatar, I agree with you.
Qatar should be defunded because Qatar is in alliance with Israel and they all work together.
shabbos kestenbaum
So that's why they're hosting Hamas and Doha.
sulaiman ahmed
Based on the instructions of the United States of America.
And so in terms of basically coming back to the universities, yes, Mahmoud Khalil did not break any law.
unidentified
That's why Marco Rubio, in his doctrine, went to three U.S. court judges.
sulaiman ahmed
I'm going to explain to you.
So he literally said that he was a good person.
He literally said that no crime was committed.
In reality, what it was is Rubio did it.
shabbos kestenbaum
The judges said he's committed a crime.
sulaiman ahmed
The judges, one judge basically went with him.
unidentified
Three, three courts.
sulaiman ahmed
Of course, because the Zionists control things.
unidentified
Okay, first of all.
I just want to say that I believe everybody in America may not know this because you're too harsh.
This is a right to protect Islam.
alex stein
Even if you're an illegal immigrant.
So, you know, that's kind of where I'm at.
And I just do want to make this one point because we do have to wrap things up.
I love all my Jewish brothers and sisters.
Sometimes I disagree with some of the stuff that Israel does, but sometimes I disagree with some of the stuff America does.
So that's where I'm at.
And when it comes to Islam, I think actually most Islamists are not actually violent.
There are some that are violent.
They give the rest a bad name.
So really, I think it comes down to social engineering that's meant to make us, you know, pit us against each other.
So that's why I disagree with it.
And I think we need to find some common ground and love one another.
And with all that being said, Shabbos Kestenbaum, we got Sulaime Ahmed, Bo French.
I'm Alex Stein.
This has been the culture war, and I know these guys need a round two.
Are you guys going to have a round two?
You guys need to have a round two.
unidentified
It's a friendly round two.
alex stein
Get along.
Make sure to like, subscribe, share some clips.
We love you.
God bless Israel.
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