The Culture War - Tim Pool - Nigeria's Christian Genocide, Media Ignoring Atrocities w/ Judd Saul & Kyle Abst

Oct. 3, 2025 - The Culture War - Tim Pool

01:57:35

Nigeria's Christian Genocide, Media Ignoring Atrocities w/ Judd Saul & Kyle Abst

BUY CAST BREW COFFEE TO SUPPORT THE SHOW - https://castbrew.com/ Become A Member And Protect Our Work at http://www.timcast.com Host: Phil Labonte @philthatremains (everywhere) Carter Banks @CarterBanks (everywhere) Guest: Judd Saul Kyle Abst https://equippingthepersecuted.org/ My Second Channel - https://www.youtube.com/timcastnews Podcast Channel - https://www.youtube.com/TimcastIRL

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judd saul

37:51

kyle abts

34:30

phil labonte

43:04

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Clips

carter banks

00:31

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Speaker	Time	Text
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, go ahead.
carter banks ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		321.
		Go ahead.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So today there's a lot of talk about conflicts in the Middle East that are ongoing.
		Um, but there's a conflict going on in part of Africa that hasn't been getting the attention that a lot of other places have.
		In Nigeria, there are a lot of Christians that are dealing with what some people are calling a genocide.
		And so here today to talk about that, we've got some people that'll dive into it.
		So Kyle, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		I'm Kyle Epps.
		I'm executive director of the International Committee in Nigeria and also a colleague and friend to Judd Saul here.
		I moved to Nigeria in 1999, raised my family there, left in 2016 and came back and with the void with the need to share the voices of Nigerians that are being persecuted and being killed.
		So I've taken it upon myself to do that for the last uh 10 years.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Awesome.
		Thanks for joining us.
		Judd?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Hello, I'm Judd Saul, uh founder and director of Equipping the Persecuted, a boots on the ground mission in Nigeria that actually helps persecuted Christians.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And uh we've been at this for a long time trying to get word out about what's going on in Nigeria, and we are very grateful to be on the show today.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Awesome.
		Well, thank you guys for joining us.
		In case you don't know, Carter Banks is here as well.
		He's gonna be pushing the button.
carter banks ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
		I'm pushing the buttons here.
		Um yeah, let's get into it.
unidentified		All right.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So um for the people that are are unfamiliar, because a lot, this hasn't gotten a lot of coverage.
		I mean, if you're an extremely online person, if you're a religious Christian, um, you might be aware of this kind of stuff because this kind of stuff would go out would would come across your feed, or maybe you've heard about it in your your particular church, uh, possibly people asking for donations or whatever.
		Um for but for the average kind of you know politically interested person, would would would you go ahead and and kind of give us the background of what's going on and and how we've gotten to this point?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, Nigeria is the most populous African nation with two over 220 million people.
		So by and large, it it should be getting focused because there's so much population, but somehow it's not being shared or exposed.
		Maybe there's something someone dumbing it down or something.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		In Nigeria, is it similar to most of the other, like most other other countries where there's a significant um population densities in cities, or is it kind of spread out, more tribal kind of thing?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Can you can you give a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit spread out?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I mean, cities is where the money is where you get a job, but then people are it's 50% agricultural, so there are a lot of people have farms, so there's a lot of people in the village areas, but it was developed or designed by the the European powers, you know, after the first world war, they kind of put these borders absorbed over 500 different ethnic groups.
		So there's a lot of you know tension already because the Muslims came from the north, they came from the Middle East along the Sahel Desert, and then they indoctrinated and converted people there while the Christians came in from the south from the ocean, slave trade and all that stuff.
		So the the history is already ripe with contention because of the different ethnic groups, but it's taken on a whole different dimension when they started killing the the Fulanese who created a declared jihad in 1804 and did designed a caliphate in parts of what is northern Nigeria now,
		and with that sort of remnant in their minds, they continue to use that, and there's a radical group of Fulani militant ex extremist Islamic who are trying to kill Christians and just displace them and uh convert the whole of Nigeria into a uh Islamic uh uh republic.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the location of Nigeria, it's not actually well no Africa's huge.
		And you look at a regular map that you're familiar with uh on you know, from from school or whatever, and Africa kind of doesn't get the the credit that it's due for the size of the landmass.
		Like it's the only it's the biggest continent that except for Asia, right?
		It's the second biggest continent, I believe it is.
		Um Nigeria is kind of in the middle of it and kind of it's a landlocked country, right?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		No, it's on the ocean.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is it on the ocean?
		Okay.
		Um so where were the the people that were coming up from the South, the Christians and stuff, they they are descendants of uh of like the Dutch or or who were the who were the people that actually colonized the the South that actually started bringing the the Christian you know faith into Africa.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Portuguese was first, and then the British was the main colony, so it was a British colony.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Um so at this point, there's the violence you said has been going on for at least 20 years, but longer.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		But 20 years is really it's taken this religious turn.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Um so who were the groups involved?
		You said the Fulani tribes.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the primary uh driving force of the killing of Christians in Nigeria is the Falani tribe.
		They're a radical Islamist tribe uh that practice a uh Saudi Arabian uh the Sunnis, Saudi Arabian Sunni form of Islam that is the same ideology of ISIS, the same ideology of Boko Haram.
		And they have declared that Nigeria is theirs for the taking.
		And Allah has given them Nigeria, so they feel that they can do whatever they want to grab that land.
		And so they've just been running unimpeded for the last 20 years.
		Uh I call it death by a thousand attacks.
		So it's not like a giant army going in and taking over major cities, but over systematically over time, they move in.
		They're not indigenous to Nigeria, but they move in, they grow the population, they gain political power.
		Once they have the political power, then the killing starts.
		And then once they have the political cover in these northern states, then they start going after more land and more villages and start doing the killing.
		And this is why hardly anybody talks about it, because they have the political cover, even within the Nigerian government, to go do these killings and run around on just killing unimpeded.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So Fulanis are nomadic herdsmen.
		That's their occupation, that's their job.
		So they're you often see them with herds of cattle, and that's where they make their money.
		And they're that actually stretched from Senegal all the way through Central Africa.
		Some say even to South Sudan, into Sudan.
		So that that people were very nomadic.
		And he says they're not they're not indigenous to Nigeria, means they don't they they will not if you speak to a Fulani in Senegal, where are you from?
		They'll say, I'm Fulani, I'm from everywhere, right?
		I'm not Nigerian, they don't have Nigerian passports, they have no form of identity.
		The the nomadic ones.
		There's some have settled since the 1800s in cities and set up in in politics as as Judd said.
		But so they're they in 1804, the Fulani jihad was declared, and they wiped out or they tried to wipe out all the the non uh the infidels, anyone who didn't want to convert to their belief of of Islam, and that's where it kind of got bad.
		But there are you know, to be fair, there are Fulanis who are Christians.
		They became they they have dreams and visions.
		It's it's not because a missionary or some Western person converts them.
		That's a misnomer.
		It's it's somehow they come to know who Jesus was through a vision, something, and they they're they're stuck being a rock and a hard place because if they tell anyone in their family that they've converted to Christianity, they'll be killed.
		Yeah, and at the same time, they got to cover that and make sure they don't expose themselves.
		So it's hard.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so so why don't you guys go ahead and and give a little more backstory on you said that the it was the what this 1907 Jihad is what they did.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		1804.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Oh, 1804 jihad.
		So this has been going on for you know 200 years.
		Um can you give a little can you give a little of the history for that?
		Is the they declared a caliphate, they said, and then they were essentially decided that it was time to to engage in in jihad could engage in holy war.
		Um how is it that they have how have they been trying to carry out the jihad and why has it kicked up in the past 20 years, or has it kicked up in the past 20 years?
		Is it just that the information gets out more um more readily because of the internet?
		I don't imagine that there's a lot of people, or that 20 years ago there were a lot of people with with uh internet capable phones.
		You know, that's something that came in the past 10 years, if it's if it is you know out there, because I know that you know Facebook was doing a lot to try and bring the internet to people and and in Africa, and they were spending a lot of money and they were set giving out phones and building infrastructure and in the phones they had you know Facebook built in.
		That's that was one of the things that Facebook um is famous for doing is like spreading Facebook by spreading the internet.
		Um, and so that that makes sense that the information would get out in the past 10 years, but the this is something that's been going on.
		So can you give me a little more bit of backstory about the the actual uh history of the jihad in over here?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I'll do the backstory, then you take it to modern day.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So the the history, so there's different kingdoms that were set up all throughout West Africa, right?
		And then the night 1804, uh Fulani named Utman Dan Fodio declared jihad because he thought all the Muslims that were there weren't worshiping the way they should.
		So he slaughtered, killed people that wouldn't go about the way he wanted to set up uh the emirates, different locations with different emirates, and the the emir has to be a fulani.
		And those exist to this day.
		The Emir of Sokoto, Sultan of Tokuto, there's the Kano, there's different places where these emirs l live or they they rule, and they have to be Fulani.
		And so that backstory, that history still remains to this day.
		Fast forward to Nigeria independence, we celebrated October 1st uh 1960.
		The British came in 19 late 1800s, did what they were just taking slaves, they're taking the resources and then exporting them.
		But they they worked with the tribal groups to try to rule by uh exemption.
		They were they weren't there in the in the country, or they were there, but they they ruled through these leaders and the and the fulani had that sort of central system, the emir, the sultan.
		So they figured out let's use them to rule and and and to take this further into the south.
		And then that's how to this day, we'll talk with Judd will talk more about that, how it became today.
		But to this day, uh Fulanis are in power strategically to rule.
		And they've 36 states in in Nigeria, 12 of them are allowed to practice Sharia law, which is against the constitution.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		You're not supposed to have enough uh uh opposing political belief, but they they're they're allowed 12 states because those are in the is the Nigerian constitution similar to the United States, or is it patterned after patterned after okay?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They started with the parliamentary system in 1960, but then by three years later they decided to become a republic and copy the the U.S. constitution, so the three houses of government, yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, so continue to what's going on now is 9-11, 2001 in Nigeria, they executed a major, major attack, killing over a thousand Christians in one swoop.
		And that was kind of their mark in the sand that the jihad is starting again.
		And ever since that, so we say over the last 20 years, they have been actively moving and systematically been restarted the jihad and conquering territory.
		There was a there during the British, there was a there was peace.
		There's really peace amongst all the tribes, and uh, because they kind of kept order.
		But go to 2000 911, 2001, 1,000 Christians get killed, and then systematically move.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So that was right after 9-11, but was it like on the same day oh, really?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So they did it, they did it in conjunction.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Exact same day in conjunction.
		And that's another thing no one talks about.
		Major attack happened, thousand Christians die in Nigeria, no, got no attention whatsoever, no notice.
		But ever since then, they have elevated and continue their jihad and continue to get more political power.
		And now we're to the point where the last three presidents of Nigeria have been Muslims, and the vice presidents have also been Muslims, Muslim Muslim tickets.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And is it my Nigeria Muslim majority country now?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		No, it was, but no, no, it's still Christian majority.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		You could ask people, they say, oh, it's 50-50.
		That's just a general thing.
		But if you ask Christians, they'll say they're they're actually more Christians than Muslims.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So there's actually a majority, but uh the last three election cycles have been Muslim-Muslim tickets, and that has allowed, I say, political cover for these terrorists to run around the country unimpeded with AK-47s and all sorts of other uh military-style weapons going around and doing killing while Nigeria's uh country that banned guns.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, to have a gun in Nigeria, you have to register it, and typically it's for hunting.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		You can't if you use it on a human, even if you're defending your house, someone's coming in, you shoot them, you could go to jail.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So it's uh it's a I mean, there are states in the United States where where that's the case, you know, if you're in New Jersey or or Massachusetts or Illinois or any other, there's probably seven or eight different states where that's the case.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, but for some reason, terrorists a band of motorcycles with AK-47s and RPGs just blow by the police and the military, they're out of Nigeria and they let them go right on by.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Why is that?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So it's typical of leftist governments, to be honest with you, but go ahead.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's uh there's a lot of reasons as to why.
		I mean, we can go into the corruption uh talk later about how a lot of Nigerian government Officials are on the take, they're being paid off, and some of are even profiting off of the activities of the terrorists through their kidnapping, the extortion, uh, the stealing of lands and the jizya they're having, making the farmers pay in the communities.
		Um it's corrupt from the top down, but uh many of these there are politicians that are on the take and uh profiting off of this.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So like uh that's kind of something that Alexander Sojinison was talking about in the Soviet Union.
		He he mentioned or he he discussed how if the if a criminal, someone that was, you know, living outside of the rules, not trying to obey the law and stuff.
		If he was caught with uh a knife or with a weapon, they would say, well, you know, he doesn't know any better.
		And and he this is just his nature, so we have to forgive him and forget and et cetera.
		Whereas if a normal person that's trying to live within the rules is caught with a weapon, well, you know, you should have known better, and and they'll throw the book at you.
		Um is there a lot of of leftist policy that's being uh being implemented in Nigeria, or is it is it does this is this kind of just emergent where where people that don't have a Western sensibility kind of just kind of behave that way?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Well, they I mean, so it's set up in oil is their biggest export.
		So they have there's they're billions of dollars in oil.
		The money for the states and local governments is given by the federal government.
		So the federal government gives us block blocks of money to the state, to the districts, to the the wards, so it trickles down.
		So if you're disobeying or you you're doing something that doesn't please the federal government, i.e.
		the president or in his administration, you could be your money could be withheld.
		So there's many things like that that happened at the same time as Jub is saying that there's people that need extra money.
		So they they confide or they they turn a blind eye to these attacks and the things happen.
		So are they getting paid cash?
		We don't know, but there's there's there's increasing evidence that there's some people connected with these uh these terrorists and and the militants.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So if the if the terrorists or if these these Muslim groups, the the Islamic radicals are are attacking the Christians and and they have no way to fight back, what do you guys think is the prescription here?
		Did do you think that there's if the if the government is actually protecting the people that are um attacking, do you think that there's any kind of political solution, or is it is it something where the the people that are being attacked are gonna have to defend themselves?
		And if they're gonna have to defend themselves, exactly like what what means, because you said there's you know there are gun laws there and and you can't have guns, and and so what do you think that the the way for these people to move forward is?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So the I'll do the first one on the terrorists.
		So the terrorists, Boko Ram, I swap up in the northeast, Borno, that's being handled by the army, by the military, of the government.
		And I and to say they're doing a good job, maybe I don't know, but they're at least stopping spread and they're but they're not they haven't defeated them.
		They claim to defeat them five, ten years ago, but they haven't.
		So they're continually doing stuff with and to against them with the aid of India, with Pakistan, with with the US money for military weapons to help combat these.
		But oftentimes they get overrun and those weapons get stolen, and and who knows where they end up.
		Well, I guess we kind of know where they end up, you know.
		So then the the terrorists are the one, the ISA, um, the ISWAP, the Boko ROM, but then the Falani militants is a different one.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So let me just tell you how explain how things work in Nigeria.
		Um, you know, the terrorists a lot of times get their weapons, and we got this documented and through testimony, they actually rent their weapons from the military for for 24 hours.
		So there's there's there's bad actors in the military and police where they will rent weapons from the police and military for a 24-hour attack and then give the weapons back the day after the attack.
		Um some groups in certain parts are well funded.
		They get uh uh you know they call it sophisticated weapons in Nigeria, but they're getting brand new AK-47s, uh new Russian-based AK-47s, and that money is coming up from the North.
		So the Falani terrorists do coincide and work with ISIS and they do work with Boca Haram, but they're kind of the I call I refer to them As the Viet Cong style force.
		You have the North Vietnamese army, which is well funded, orchestrated, everything going on.
		Well, then you have the Viet Cong, which are the renegade boots on the ground.
		They're given marching orders, and they are executing the jihad in the middle belt while all the attention, all the money's being focused on up north.
		Now these current politicians and people in power could not be in place without the support of these terror-controlled territories, these territories controlled by terrorists.
		They couldn't be in power.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Are they getting outside money as well?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Or is this just something that's coming out of the government?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		We believe that they are getting outside money.
		They're getting outside money from up north, from the Middle East, um, for places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia.
		Um, there is funding that is going on.
		In fact, we know that there are um uh several of these terror leaders are getting paid trips to Saudi Arabia for their you know, for their pilgrimage and uh pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, pilgrimage to Mecca.
		You have to go to Mecca, Mecca, and and they're and they're being funded by folks up in Saudi Arabia and in the Middle East.
		We know that these leaders are doing that, and there's so there's there's definite collusion.
		And you asked about the how the is leftist politics involved.
		Well, we know that the far left across the world, far left governments have been supporting the current president and the previous presidents that have been allowing the killing of Christians, including Democrat operatives from the United States.
		Obama operatives, David Axel Rod and company, have been in Nigeria the last three presidential election cycles helping Muslim candidates win offices over Christian candidates.
		So there is a collusion of the far left working with the Nigeria within the Nigerian government and getting bad actors elected.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		And you have this sort of narrative that goes out, the terrorists are there, let's defeat them.
		We the terror is bad, right?
		But this middle belt one, this middle area of Fulani extremists, militants, we can't say that because that's you're you're denigrating the whole population of Fulanis.
		And and we don't want to do that either.
		We know some good Fulanese, but they're militant.
		Some of them are very militant, and the good ones can't expose, they can't help, and they can't uh you know do anything to stop it because they'll be killed themselves.
		So they're they're turning a blind eye, what have you.
		But the narrative that goes out in the US and around the world is it's a farmer herder, it's an ethnic clash.
		That's why you don't hear about what what sounds better, ethnic clash, farmer herder, or Christian genocide.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
		Yeah.
		Well, I mean, the the idea of a Christian genocide is is, you know, there are a lot of people in the West that are just allergic to that concept because they they feel like it's a they feel like any kind of um acknowledgement of that is going to be helping their political opponents in the U.S. I mean, you can bring this up from Al Jazeera here.
		Um Bill Maher has said there is no Christian genocide in Nigeria.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So Al Jazeera is saying this.
		Bill Mars says there's a systematically killing of Christians in Nigeria.
		So they're countering his own.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay, okay.
		No Bill Maher, there is no Christian genocide in Nigeria.
		So Al Jazeera is running uh um, you know, is running cover for you know essentially what's going on in Nigeria.
		Um, from Al Jazeera, in recent days, coordinated attacks on Nigeria's nationhood have swept across social media blogs and television outlets, alleging a so-called Christian genocide.
		These attacks, driven by foreign actors, mischaracterize Nigeria's domestic conflicts, ignore its complexities, and manipulate long-standing ethnic and resource-based tension to advance sectarian agendas.
		I mean, this doesn't seem like it's particularly surprising from Al Jazeera, considering um where it's based and and the people that fund it.
		But um but is it not a is it not an issue for the the that Christians should be focused on, or is it something that that you know, is it something that that they could actually convince people it's just tribalism and it has nothing to do with their Christianity?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		This particular guy that wrote this article is from the office of vice president of Nigeria.
		Now the uh vice president of Nigeria has been very well affiliated with bad actors for a very, very long time, and he's got quite the reputation in Nigeria of being affiliated with the bad guys.
		Now, why is there spin and why does the spin hit the U.S.?
		Al Jazeera is one of those publications to to blame for this.
		Is because I'll f I'll I'll just give you a prime example.
		In June, Father's Day this year, 280 Christians were killed.
		They were half of them were burned alive, and the ones that weren't burned alive were trying to escape or hacked to death with machetes.
		Children, women, men, elderly.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's just a slaughter.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Whoever could get away with slaughter.
unidentified		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Al Jazeera comes out and they lie about the numbers.
		They say 100 were killed.
		And they call it tribal clashes, farmer herder clashes.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, the fact of the matter is is that when they talk about it like that, do they get into the motivation?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		No, they never get into the motivation.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So it's just a clash.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So regional.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So here's here's what happens with the news in Nigeria.
		Okay.
		And this is kind of different for Westerners to understand this.
		If a major event happens, the government calls for the press conference.
		The government pays the journalists to show up to cover the press conference.
		If the government does not call for a press conference, the event never happened.
		But the journalists who are getting paid to cover press conference have to repeat exactly what the government said.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Now you guys had said that the constitution in Nigeria is modeled after Western constitutions.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		They don't have so far we've said we've we've kind of established that there's no protection for individual right to self-defense, and there's no uh protection for the freedom of the press or freedom of religion or freedom of speech.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		But other than that, it's all good, right?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So there's so there's so the so by the time the information gets out and it goes to the AP.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		When it gets the AP, it's all filtered through Al Jazeera.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And the air and the AP just accepts the narrative that's being sent out.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They don't have their own, they don't, I mean, obviously they're there's occasionally they do, but even worse still is the data that's compiled that the U.S. government looks at, ACLED, A C L E D, that if you go to that website, they do a good job, they try, but they're just culling the internet, just going through it, they got a program they write, they get this.
		Oh, they don't they don't say fulani militants killed, they say, Oh, it's a farmer herder clash.
		We'll go those or unknown gunmen.
		That's the other one.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Unknown gunmen, unknown gunmen.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Let's just call them unknown.
		Well, we know exactly who they are.
		We call the village, find someone there, they know exactly who it is, and they they're trying to say it, but they get stopped.
		So these whole this data system that you see reported is incorrect because all the information being fed by the the so-called journalists in in in Nigeria aren't reporting accurately.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Right, and the and the final filter goes through Al Jazeera, which then goes to the AP.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And so a reason why you don't hear anything, especially coming out of mainstream press, is one, the Nigerian government does not hold a press conference, it didn't happen.
		And the only time they hold a press conference on something is when there's more than a hundred people that were killed.
		You don't hear about the 10 people, the 20 people, the 30 people in the killings.
		Never, never hits mainstream media unless it's over 100.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And that's and that is where the bodies are piling up and communities are destroyed.
		And then what no one talks about is after we hear about the killings, is after killings, well, you have survivors that lived in these communities.
		A village of 10,000, village of 5,000, all these people are now removed from their homes and they have to live in camps.
		And so currently, right now, there's 3.5 million Christians that are living in squalor in awful camps.
		And you they've been removed from their communities.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Not that I'm some kind of pro-UN guy, but the UN has nothing to say about this.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They're there, but they're where the terrorists are, right?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So everyone focuses on the terrorists because that's a bad word.
unidentified		Right.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		We want to stop the spread of Islamic terrorism.
		Great.
		No one's looking at the middle, the the the Fulani militants action.
		Because again, it's their own problem.
		Let the government take care of it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Let them because they're they're the Fulani militants because they're not uh uh officially associated with either Book of Haram or or ISIS or what have you, they don't get any attention and and no pushback from the UN or from from international organizations, and there's no they don't get help.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, you're talking about the IDPs, the the people that the 3.5 million place, they don't get help.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		They don't get aid.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And there's no there's no press coverage.
		There's no independent journalists that are down there trying to get the word out and is it is it is it safe for for journalists to go there?
		Can they go there and expect to not get killed by by the Falanis?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So two years ago we created a website called Truthnigeria.com to give outlets to citizen journalists in Nigeria.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		We have 15 troublemaking journalists that risk their lives every day to document these things.
unidentified		And that is the only outlet right now of truth getting out about what's going on in Nigeria is through truthnigeria.com and uh the we've had we've had our reporters beat they've been detained by the government they've had death threats by the government they have to go undercover they have to uh live in a few different locations and but we are the only ones who've given them an outlet to actually say what's going on otherwise none of the information's getting out and it's not anti-government it's not anti-Muslim
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		It's the truth.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		It's just truth.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		It's just documenting what's going on.
unidentified		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And so the Nigerian government doesn't want this to get out because it makes the—because they're aligned with the Fulanis apparently, right?
		They believe—they're at the very least, they're sympathetic to the Fulanis'perspective.
		And so they're not getting any kind of help internationally.
		There's no press coverage.
		So how many organizations such as yours are actually trying to get information out?
		And how effective is it?
		Obviously, you said you live there.
		What kind of resources do the organizations that are currently there that are trying to get information out, what kind of resources do they have, and what is the best means to help them in your estimation?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I'll start with my ideally situation, and you cover up the emergency.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Ideally, we want to be there just to encourage them, whatever they need.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		help with farming you know sustainable agriculture education medical just giving giving them a hand up not not a hand out right helping them encourage them but because of the crisis because of all the killings you can't do that you're more or less responding in emergency situation.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		I mean, do they need to send Green Berets in to teach the Christians how to fight?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Time to get CIA involved or something?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		We pray for intervention, but what resources are going on?
		There's not very many organizations doing what we do.
		And those of us that are in the fight are underfunded, don't have the resources, because it's all private donations.
		Our organization, EquippingThePersecuted.org, gets no government funding.
		The other local missionaries that are out there that we team up with don't get any big funding.
		And this is a fight we've been in for several years.
		That's why we're all kind of shocked that, you know, thank you for bringing us on again to talk about this, because we've been at this for years, trying to get the truth out.
		And so we're very underfunded.
		And the government funding, like UNICEF and the UN, they're expending resources up at the north.
		the resources that come in from the UN and came in from UNICEF end up in terrorist hands.
		It never gets to the people that are really suffering and need it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		That's typical I mean you hear the same kind of argument when it when it's dealing with whether it's you go way back to the 90s when Adid was in Somalia he would get all the aid from the UN it would never make it to the Somalian people you hear the same narrative when it comes to Gaza the that Hamas takes all of the aid and controls who does and does not get it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So they use it as a a tool to keep the people in line and and so that's something that that's fairly typical of these type of of regimes where the the government is actually supposed to be produ uh you know processing the inform the the aid and and handing it out to the people that need it but really what they end up doing is holding on to it and enriching themselves.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		And it hurts the economy.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So USAD when they pulled the funding yes it did hurt some people that knew the HIV AIDS medication whatever that that that was a sad reality but those getting food assistance and that kind of something they were rejoicing because the price of take for instance where the terrorists are they were they're bringing in food that was being confiscated sold off at a profit higher margins than they could in else other parts of Nigeria soon as that was stopped the price came down and people really like this is great.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So it's market forces at work.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		It's good to hear that because you hear from the left people that wanted USAID to stay in business and continue to do the things they're doing.
		You hear about the, oh, well, there are going to be so many people that are going to die and et cetera, et cetera.
		But you don't very often hear, oh, well, actually prices came down in this place because there's no longer market manipulation by the food aid getting sold.
		On the private market.
unidentified		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Instead of delivering aid and giving it to the hungry people that need it, they're just taking and selling it off.
unidentified		Sure.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, magically these aid trucks, which just happened to break down right in front of terror camps.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Shocking.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And the food would be gone and then they get back in the trucks and move it in.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Get the truck out of the way that way.
		Yeah.
		So it was just too heavy.
		You know, get the outloaded.
		So that way you could actually.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I'll sum up USAID and UNICEF in one story.
		So we've been working with this IDP camp in Benway uh for a long time we've and we've spent lots of funds getting them out of garbage bag tents and putting them into living structures like they that they could live in and we went back to check on the camp and see how things were going uh brought medicine did a medical intervention and I look over and I see four giant garbage cans slapped with USAID and UNICEF stickers on them.
		I'm going, what in the world?
		Well, you gotta understand, in Nigeria and especially these camps, there's just trash everywhere.
		There's no sanitation system.
		There's no dumps.
		There's no garbage trucks.
		Trash is just everywhere.
		And I look at these four giant garbage cans full of trash sitting around trash.
		And I go to the camp.
		I said, did USAID come by and bring these by?
		They're like, yeah.
		I said, did they bring any food?
		They're like, no.
		I said, "Did they come back?" and like help pick up the trash or haul it away they're like no so their magical gift to a camp of 5,000 people living in that was living in garbage bag tents was four garbage cans that was that was our USAID contribution and a slap in the face to these people that are starving and dying of disease and they give them garbage cans and that was it.
unidentified		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And then one other story.
		Another another NGO, UN group came in and they built them a latrine.
		The latrine filled up.
		They gave them no option to haul out the waste.
		So they have a giant latrine filled with waste.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And no mechanism to empty the waste.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		That's that's that's not very.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		That's that's our that's our government dollars at work.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, that's...
		This is just an argument against USAID.
		Generally, I'm of the opinion that aid tends to hurt more than it actually helps.
		Because you were talking about the people that are in charge.
		In most places in the world nowadays, particularly in 2025, most places that are really poverty stricken, it's not that there is not the capacity to get out of poverty.
		It's that they are kept in poverty by the government.
		You have bad policy.
		I mean, the people themselves are completely capable of engaging in markets and producing their own food.
		It's not that they lack the ability to do that because humans have been doing things like that for thousands of years.
		But generally, it's the governments that prevent those kind of things.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		These people were farmers.
		These people had homes.
		They were happy doing their farming.
		These people were happy to do that.
		They were happy to do that.
		But it wasn't until these Islamic terrorists came in, ripped them away from their tribal lands, their ancestral lands and shove them in camps and they have nowhere to go they have no way to produce anything because of these terrorists that yeah the Nigeria is not like a desert it's it's in the uh the the more the lush part of or one of the it's subsaharis one of the more lush parts of Africa it's it's rich it's rich in agricultural rich and natural resources if you Could just get rid of the corruption.
		If you could get rid of the stupid Islamic terrorists that are going around killing people and destroying everything they touch, Nigeria would be the place to go to in Africa.
		It would be a great tourist destination, be a great place to invest, great place for economy.
		Um speaking of which, there are people capitalizing off of this terrorism and off of these things, and that's the Chinese.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Go on.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The Chinese have been moving in and they call it illegal mining.
		All right.
		So the the that's illegal mining, but they're going in and they're mining out natural resources in the Islamic controlled areas of Nigeria.
		And let's say there's more land that uh becomes available, Christians are kicked off their land and they're sitting on minerals.
		China's coming in doing mining, they don't care what all the killing or what's happening around them as long as China gets to do their mining.
		And so there are foreign government interests that are capitalizing on this as well.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		China's in like pretty much every African country.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		If they the belt road, whatever that started with.
		Yeah, but they they don't come with any sort of democracy, any human rights.
		So they just whatever happens, whatever's under the table, let me come in, I'll I'll I'll build a road for you.
		Yeah, sure.
		Then just let me have this land over here, and they hire locals to do it, mines are collapsing all the time.
		You know, here's stories of the stuff gold mine just collapsed, I think the other day.
		So it's like these things are happening.
		And they just when they get their truck loaded up, find a port, they built a port in uh Lagos, a deep sea port, which is great for shipping vessels, but also military vessels.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So how is China you know allowed to do this?
		They just cut these crazy deals.
		And then Russia's also throughout West Africa, they're in Mali, Niger, Burkina Faso.
		So, you know, you get the whole gamut of communism coming in.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the and uh and our inaction as a United States government in foreign policy, I mean, during the Biden years, the operating directive was LGBTQ, yeah, feminism, uh, women's empowerment had nothing to do with that are only going to alienate the the the Americans from whatever uh whatever culture they're trying to actually help allegedly trying to help.
		So that was the operating directive from uh from our US embassy.
		So they're focused on all this stuff.
		While there's killing, there's terrorism, uh China and Russia are taking over Africa, and the United States foreign policy was social issues.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they're often chasing China.
		So anytime Chinese diplomats, government come over to Africa, Nigeria, they're they're two weeks behind.
		America shows up, and what are you gonna do?
		Well, China's offered us this, you know.
		Can you beat that?
		And they can't, you know, because they want to tie it in with human rights and all this other stuff.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the the US is is this is this goes back to uh an argument that that is often made about whether or not the United States should have um political influence in other countries and and while it does produce situations like we had where there was so much BS going on, right?
		Like with your with your LGBTQIA kind of garbage being forced on cultures that uh that just flat out reject that, uh alienating the the Americans from whatever the local population thinks, or whether it be any other um you know ideologically motivated stuff that it's in in significant conflict with what tend to be religious,
		you know, religious uh tribal, whether it be tribes or or religious cultures, um is it better for the United States to step back?
		Now there's a lot of people that when they hear America first, they think that the uh US shouldn't worry about the rest of the world.
		And whereas I'm um the kind of America first kind of dude that thinks, well, the United States is not alone, and it's better for the United States to be able to influence countries than to not like influence them in ways that are that benefit the United States,
		and I think that uh allowing um allowing countries like China and like Russia to go in and not actually do anything that helps the the host countries, um, I think it's probably worse for the United States because the United States gets nothing out of it except for countries that are Hostile to the United States.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Well, and then you have what you have to look at this way is that there is vast untapped natural resources, minerals, you name it in Africa.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Um, if United States does not have a hand in that, it will hurt the United States in the future.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, someone's going to.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So if we sit back and we don't engage with other countries and policy in other countries, um you're those people that are I say uh America first isolationists, they are advocating for the same foreign policy our adversaries want.
		If you take the US out of the equation, China, Russia become more powerful.
		And if China and Russia becomes more powerful, United States loses its influence and we become weak.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So uh and I it look putting America first it means you do things that benefit America.
		That doesn't mean that you step away from the rest of the world, because that puts America in a weaker position.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		That's what Rubio's policy is safer, stronger, prosperous.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		How do you do that in Nigeria?
		There's many ways, you know.
		Yeah, you're not just focusing on America.
		He's not, that's not his intent.
		His intent is how does this make America safer?
		Getting involved in Nigeria, how does it make America stronger?
		Figuring out things in Nigeria, how to make it more prosperous?
		That was those are things that have to be.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		It's not I I I'll be the first person to say that it's not America first to leave tons of weapons in Afghanistan.
		That's that's not good a good thing for the United States.
		But cutting deals that allow American companies to produce uh to get you know minerals or to get uh um natural resources out of an African country as opposed to you know in a way that is going to actually produce profit for the people of that country as opposed to allowing China or Russia to go in and acquire these colonials.
		Absolutely, absolutely.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So and the the Chinese and the Russian companies, I mean the Nigerians hate hate working for them because they get treated like garbage, they get treated like indentured servants if they end up working for the Chinese and Russian companies.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		American business comes in with principle, with values that it benefits the country, it benefits us, and we see that if we move into a country and um we're doing business, we believe that prosperity for all makes everybody better.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I I I want to on that note, I want to put a pin on that because there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna hear that and they're gonna think, oh, well, you know, when we had uh USAID, we were sharing American values and they're like we talked about they're they're sharing the LGBTQ ideology and and they're sharing sharing a lot of progressive ideas that aren't just uh foreign to these these countries that are are oftentimes their their culture's based and their religion, but they're also foreign to the United States.
		These are these are things that that the United States doesn't agree on, right?
		Like these these ideas like the idea that men can become women that that it that goes hand in hand with the LGBTQID, uh, you know, stuff like that.
		Um that that's not something that the American people agree on.
		In fact, that's that's another 80-20 issue.
		Americans don't think by and large that you can change your gender or well, I'm I don't even like the term gender.
		I think gender is just a made-up word to to allow for these ideas to be spread.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Um and I can assure you that 99.99999999% of Nigerians would agree.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		You try to so you put a pile of money on the table and you start talking about equality and DEI things, the yeah.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		All they're looking at is that money because they know USAD has money, you know, donors, EU, whoever has money.
		Whatever you want, we'll do it.
		Whatever report you want us to write, we know how to write it.
		Just give it keep that money coming, keep that tap open.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so yeah, they're it's funding dog and pony shows.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And uh, but so preventing that stuff is is like largely on the United States side.
		Yes, yeah, you know.
		I mean, granted, I'm I'm extremely happy that the that USAID has been shut down.
		I'm glad that the Trump administration is doing all the things that it's doing to prevent the the exporting of of ideas that are even foreign to the US, right?
		They're they're not ideas that the United States by and large, the American people agree with.
		Um so then how do you provide support or how do you like what if you were to talk sit down with Marco Rubio, what would you want him to to say about Nigeria that in a what what way would you you want to hear the United States help in Nigeria?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I would say there is a lot of business to be done in Nigeria.
		And I think it could be a win-win situation for the United States.
		Broker mineral rights deals with the Nigerian government, but also predicate a major investment into Nigeria on the safety and security of the people.
		Say, we'll invest X amount of dollars, but you guys, and we'll help you along the way, get rid of the security issue.
		Get rid of this terrorism nonsense.
		So we can see Nigeria be a prosperous nation.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Will a Muslim government do that?
		Or do they need to add will the will the the will a Christian need to win the election and become the president and vice president?
		Can they do that?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I would prefer better leadership.
		But I say we can get I say the United States can give Nigeria an offer it can't refuse and end this violence and this nonsense.
		And there is a win-win scenario.
		Uh we've done the numbers, we looked at it on paper, and we have been pro we have been giving the uh administration this information and how to look at Nigeria.
		But the first things first is the US government needs to identify who the enemy is, who the terrorists actually are.
		It's not just Boko Haram and ISIS, it's the Falani militants, the radical Islamist Falani that are killing all the Christians.
		The attention keeps being diverted away.
		So we have to identify who the bad guys are before we can get success.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, is it something is it practical to think that the people that are telling the story about what's going on in Nigeria?
		Is it practical to think that they can actually manage to spin a narrative that that will identify the Falani that are bad without you know without making everyone think that the Falani by and large are bad.
		Because the reason I have well the reason I ask is because Americans are familiar with the name Boko Haram.
		Americans are familiar with the name ISIS, those two groups, yeah.
		Al Qaeda, these things are easy for Americans to understand.
		And if you're gonna try and convince the Americans that this is something that they should care about, just saying Falani, which is a name most I've I'd never heard the Falani, the name Falani before today, uh most Americans are gonna say, Well, who are they, right?
		And and then you're gonna say, well, it's a tribal thing, and then the then they're gonna go back to, oh, then it's just tribal clashes.
		So how do you how do you fix that?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So we we refer to them as the Falani ethnic militia.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can't classify all Falani Lani people is a wrong term.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Falani ethnic militia.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		That's what that's what we're calling them.
		That's what they're called.
		So they're the Falani ethnic militia.
		That separates the those Falani from the good Falani.
		Um, because these are the militants, they're the militia.
		And the thing is, the Nigerian government knows who the leaders are, they know the command structure, they know how it operates.
		We know the command structure and who the leaders are and how it operates.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And there is clearly identifiable, you know where the headquarters is, they know where they meet.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		This could easily be dealt with with willpower and done very quickly.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so on that point, I'm gonna go to this uh this bit from Newsweek, Card if you're gonna bring this up.
		Uh the from Newsweek, Trump administration deeply concerned by violence against Christians on in Nigeria.
		The State Department has told Newsweek that it is deeply concerned about the levels of violence against Christians and members of other groups in Nigeria.
		It comes after American comedian Bill Maher brought attention to the high number of Christians being killed by Islamic militant groups such as Boko Haram in parts of Nigeria.
		The country is generally pushed back against narratives that Christians are being systematically killed in a genocide attempt, as Marr described it, with Nigeria's foreign Nigeria's ministry of foreign affairs saying in March that the terrorism in the country is not driven by religious bias nor targeted against any particular religious groups.
		Now, this is this is the the existing government, which you guys are saying is run essentially by the Muslims, which are in at least sympathetic to the the Milan.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		If you're not stopping it, you're complicit.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Let me give you a story.
		2018, then President Buhari came to the Rose Garden, had discussion with Trump.
		A girl named Leah Shark.
		2018 you said 2018, so he was president, two terms, so he lasted eight years.
		He came.
		Uh A girl named Leah Sharibu was kidnapped a month, two months before.
		This has been going on by terrorists taking girls forcibly, converting them.
		It was terrible.
		It's tragic.
		He confronts Bahari and says, What are you doing to Christians?
		Here there's one girl still captive.
		You need to free her.
		Why you why why are they killing Christians?
		I was on my way to Nigeria when that speech was being made.
		I was in a governor's office, and he says, All hell's breaking those.
		I said, What's going on?
		He said, Your president said something yesterday, and all the generals, all the government is showing trying to save faith.
		They're trying to respond to this.
		Same thing happened.
		So that was the flanny, as also helping with the terrorists.
		Things started to happen.
		When Trump said something, the world, uh Nigeria responded.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, this particular piece that I was watching in or that I was reading from in Newsweek, that was this was October 1st.
		That was two or three days ago.
		Do you do you get the sense or do you have to any of your contacts in in Nigeria?
		Do they have they noticed this?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I think Bill Marsh started it.
		I think this, you know, there's Senator Cruz's uh in uh introduced legislation, and then Congressman uh uh Chris Smith has done it as well.
		So when people say things, they're ecstatic because they're not.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, we both know that no legislation is going through Congress, right?
		Like it's just not gonna happen.
		Like I mean, it it might get through the House, but it's definitely not gonna get through the Senate because the Senate does they just don't have the votes for Republicans and anything that the Democrats can do to stymie the Republicans.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're focusing on Trump.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what that's why we're that's why we're trying to get to Trump and the Trump administration.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Look, even Trump saying a few words changed the scope for a while in Nigeria, and you saw the killings shrink and drop down.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Does your organization have any contact with people at state?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		We okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I I just came back from DC.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I've been meeting with the State Department.
unidentified		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Um, and and you know, providing them information about what's going on.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The problem is is like I said, for the last four years, uh, the US embassy had an operating directive focusing on stupid social issues.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And I met with the U.S. Embassy in Abuja, they had no idea what's going on outside their doors in Abuja.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		They didn't know about the killing.
unidentified		They can't leave the grounds, they can't leave the grounds, they can't go anywhere.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		The the Nigerian staff can go out, but the American staff.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		But the information that they get about what's happening in Nigeria is coming from the Nigerian government.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So they whatever they're selling, they're buying 100%.
		You know, whatever the Nigerian government's telling them, the U.S. embassy was when a congressman is going.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Are they still currently?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		We don't know.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're things have been shaken up.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Has there been new staff put into play?
		Like, I mean, it's on its way in.
		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		It's on its way in.
		So we're hoping that we build new relationships with them and we can actually inform them on what's going on.
		Like I said, Truth Nigeria, our reporters on the ground, whenever there's attack, our guys are on the ground interviewing people.
		Eyewitnesses.
		Now, for newsweek and for people saying, well, it's not religiously motivated, it's not religiously motivated.
		It's a lie from the pit of hell that has been spread by Islamists and Islamic countries all over the world ever since its inception.
		It's not religiously motivated.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		we're nice people let us in the thousands of christians are being killed there over 20 000 churches have been attacked or destroyed How many mosques?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, look at the city.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		How many?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no mosques have been destroyed.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Few, but you guys are probably familiar with with uh Christopher Hitchens passed away at cancer a couple years back.
		Uh and uh he had a saying that Islam has bloody borders.
		And it generally, you know, any place where where a sufficiently large population of of you know Muslims in comes in contact with people that have a different religion or different uh different culture, there tends to be clashes and fights and and violence.
		So that's not really particularly surprising.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So it comes in three forms.
		It comes with cultural jihad.
		We move in, populate, and and every village, every village tells me the same story.
		The survivors of these attacks every single time tells me the same story.
		So, like we had neighbors, we lived with lived next to them for 30 years.
		Fulani, we lived with the Falani for 30 years, our children played together, we did business together, uh, everything was fine until the one day.
		The one day they just weren't in town that one day, and then that an hour later, boom, militants came in.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So essentially they're they're they're informing the Falani.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Or they're either providing cover or they're they're providing cover or partaking in the attacks themselves.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Every village, every attack says the same story.
		And when they come in, they shout a lahu wakbar.
		They're going after the churches.
		They they go after the churches first.
		They desecrate the churches and burn the churches and they go after the pastors.
		They behead the pastors.
		They kill the pastors.
		It is religious.
		Because this is how Islam has conquered every nation since its inception.
		Since 640 AD.
		It is how it is conquered.
		And there are more moderate Muslims that have uh, you know, um leaving that kind of ideology, but the ideology that is with the Falani ethnic militia is the same Islam that has conquered and believes in killing anybody that gets in their way that doesn't agree with them.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		And it's right, so you're saying, oh, there's Muslims being killed too.
		Yeah, right.
		Because they're non-Falani Muslims.
		That's why they're being killed.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Uh but not the same level, but there's an is there a difference between are they Sunni Muslims?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Because I I've Sunni Salif is that that's what they are, right?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		The Felani, the Falanis that are doing the killing are Sunni.
		So the Muslims that end up getting killed by them.
		They're Sunni Sunni.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		These are a small group of Shias and they're based in one area.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They're being attacked by the government, but also could be the Falani too.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		That's great for them.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		But it but it's that is cultural because they're not you're not, you're not of the pure blood of Fulani.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So you're not a true Muslim unless you do this, or we don't even care about you, we'll get rid of you.
		You're not part of the Remirate.
		You know, you're a slave.
		Because that's what the Emirates did.
		In 1804, they took on more almost as many slaves as the British were exporting out of Africa.
		So they had just as many slaves across their kingdoms.
unidentified		So and it still exists.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Slavery still exists in Nigeria, in where the Islam is.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So it wanna talk about another issue that had that needs to be brought up.
		Is we have the killings, you have the displaced, the 3.5 million displaced, but we have a major kidnap problem going on in Nigeria, where right now, right now we know of over 1,000 Christians that are currently being held hostage, they're being beaten and starved to death, and they're trying to be ransomed out.
		This is just one area we know of.
		Now here's the thing: the Nigerian government knows where these people are.
		We know where the where the hostage camps are.
		Nothing's being done to rescue these people.
		And we know that there's multiple camps like this in other states.
		But what I know of for sure is a thousand Christians are being held captive right now, being beaten and starved to death.
		And people that are trying to pay the ransom are going bankrupt, having to sell everything they own just to get their people out.
		And if ransom isn't paid, they're getting shot.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They take a phone, they cat they kidnap people, students, children, women, and they film them being beaten.
		Pay money now, or this is going to continue.
		And that's how the so they're sending messages, recording it.
		So you get to sell data, you can get all that information.
		It's not not rock science.
		You do satellites or drones, yeah, find out where they are.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		They they happen to be all Christian.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Because they pay.
		Christians don't want to see this, they pay up.
		Muslims won't pay.
		They get kidnapped.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Really?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		They just well, well, they're martyred.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So they know, you know.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Opportunity.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm so I'm just I'm kind of still at a loss for for what the actual, you know, save for covert operations by state, which I mean, that might be something that the that State Department's entertaining.
		Um, but there's not a significant appetite for that in the U.S. nowadays, you know, like that, especially after, you know, with with Trump going in and into getting into office again and saying that that we're going to focus on the United States.
		I mean, you can see it in the chat.
		There's a lot of people that are saying, well, they don't see how this is America's problem.
		Right.
		So there are some people that are like, well, they're Christians, there, and a lot of a lot of America America first people tend to be religious.
		So they're like, well, you know, maybe because they're Christians, but there's a lot of people that are America first that are like, I don't see how this is an American problem.
		I don't see how this is this is something that we have to worry about.
		We have have our own problems here, which um, you know, I agree in principle, the the idea that the United States should be looking after itself first, um, and then they they bring up the the actual monetary cost.
		But anytime anyone brings up the monetary cost, I'm like, look, man, if you're not talking about about Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, you're not talking about fixing any problem at all.
		All of the I'm I'm against um, like we were talking about it earlier, this earlier in the show.
		I'm against foreign aid because it tends to actually um distort markets and it does it it prevents countries from taking care of themselves.
		So I'm against foreign aid in principle.
		Um, but if they stop if the U.S. stops all foreign aid to all other countries, it's not going to fix our deficit.
		It's not going to fix our monetary issues.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Two things.
		One, Nigerians are here in America already.
		They've been born here.
		They've some have immigrated here as they're Nigerian-born.
		There's over a million Nigerians for in Texas in Atlanta.
		You know, they say Atlanta is the second biggest Nigerian city, right?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And and if you talk to nigerians that are in the United States, they tend to be extremely industrious.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		They tend to be um be very successful in in opening businesses and stuff.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So the the idea that that um if there are Nigerians that are coming to the US that they're coming to to get onto some kind of social support, I think that that's actually you know they want to work, they don't Niger Nigerians when they move to America, they make uh like 15% more per capita than the average white person because they're in they're so industrious.
		And they are hard working people, so they're not coming in here trying to get on the business on the system.
		They they want to hustle and they want to make a good living.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		The second thing I was gonna say is that you you have this radicalized young Muslim who wants to change, bring about change for their flunny for terrorism, whatever.
		They get ch they get trained, they end up sneaking across the desert, going into Europe.
		Some of have you ever watched these shows?
		This guy who travels the border and he sees uh ID cards and past what people leave behind is across in the border illegally.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Nigerians are already there.
		So you can't tell me that this won't that this is not affect Americans because they're coming in either for a hand up, maybe, but maybe something worse.
		So how do we stop that?
		You know, we the joke we have is that this could be solved in six months.
		No money.
		Maybe it's a flight ticket, maybe some jet fuel, you know.
		Masad Bulis is a Nigerian Lebanese guy.
		His son, Michael, is married to who?
		Tiffany Trump.
		He knows Nigeria.
		Send him over.
		We'll show him who the real Nigerians are, talk to them, bring them to the government and say, how do we solve this in six months?
		Let's make a deal.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So do you think that it is something they could that just you know, just the right people going in and and talking could because it's my it, I mean, from what I've been hearing in this conversation, the problem is at a government of Nigeria level.
		I mean, I understand that Donald Trump does have, you know, if Trump says, okay, we're gonna do this, or Trump points, you know, if you get the IFSOR on, which is the United States government, you get the IFSOR on you on you, people tend to make make changes in their policy.
		Um, but is that something that the that is would only be changes to say face and they wouldn't be substantive changes?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		No, there would be substantive changes.
		Um we've seen it, we've seen it work before.
		All we like I said, all we need is willpower and a very, very little acknowledgement from the Trump administration.
		And if there's some resources, a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket would change Nigeria overnight.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so so what is it that you have got the you said you've been to to state and and and you're talking to people at state.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Um are they making any kind of commitments or are they just giving you lip service or what's the what's going on in in DC for this?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're they're fact-finding uh the State Department's been upended, a lot of people have been fired from the State Department, uh depart the things have been consolidated.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The entire infrastructure State Department has been totally uh totally changed.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And so do you think that the situation is their way you're we're we're kind of waiting for a state to kind of get its feet back underneath it after all of the the changes from from the the government?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so that that's what's been happening.
		So I've we've been meeting with state over the last several months.
		Now we're to a point where they got their footing, they have their directives, they know what they're looking to do, and they're and they're looking for information, real information, um uh about what's happening, and and they're taking us very, very seriously.
		And um there is a win-win scenario.
		U.S. could invest in Nigeria in return for mineral rights and research resources to get a return on their investment back, predicated on the security of the country.
		That way there's no money being lost, and it's a gain for our country.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I mean, simply just having them showing them saying, look, we're as Americans, we're not coming in to solve your problem.
		We're coming in here to to say what the world is saying.
		So here's what's going on.
		Here's what you need to do to change.
		How can you stop this corruption, remove some of these political corrupt people?
		How do you help the your own people reinvest some of that money?
		Some some politicians have properties all over the world.
		Some people are just exp exposed extorting money from from the EU, from the US.
		How do we stop that?
		These are the you need to show us this, this, and this, do it yourself.
		How do you do it yourself?
		Do it.
		You know, it's not it's not that you need to show a billion dollars.
		We don't need that.
		We we've had that for almost 20 years going into Nigeria.
		It's done nothing.
		So it can be stopped.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Which is, I mean, like this that's exactly why I say that, you know, the the problem isn't actually about funding or anything, or or I think that the the idea of aid is mis, you know, aid is generally misallocated, and I think the ideas behind aid are are erroneous.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Like you don't actually produce, you very rarely get the results you want when you send money and food aid and and stuff, you you end up making a client nation or a client population.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		It depends.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Well, the pro the the biggest problem is is that when the aid would come through, they're working with government officials.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		That's problem number one.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Even if it's a non-government organization, they'll register something as a nonprofit and then yeah, but that's that's that isn't that kind of always what other what other means of delivery is there?
		If the government is in charge, right?
		Uh ostensibly, and the government is corrupt, then providing any aid is just providing support to the people that are oppressing the people in in Nigeria.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Well, in our case, at equipping the persecuted, um, we're privately funded, but when we go in with aid, we don't work with government officials.
		We go in, we vet, we identify the people that need it and go through a whole vetting process and we get them the aid they need, and we assess the situation.
		So because we don't work with government officials when aid's delivered, we deliver it effectively and make sure the people that need it get it.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		And he doesn't want to do that.
		I don't want to go to Nigeria.
		Help people that are persecuted.
		I want to help people get a hand up.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Right.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I want to help people have sustainable agriculture, work with their livestock, just get a better education.
		I don't want to do things for them.
		I don't want to provide things.
		I want to see them do it, but just give them maybe try this, maybe try that.
		Maybe tell me what would work, you know.
		How do we help you?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And the and the best thing we do is get these people back to their land.
		Yeah, back to their farms, back to their land.
		So they're not going to be able to do that.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They're displaced.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They can't, they can't, they're often in some neighbor's place or to school or not, not there's there's not like refugees.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Are there retrofit?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		They don't get refugee, uh refugee camp material and things from them.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		That's the terrorists.
		The terrorist camp have those UN places.
		There's several up there, wealth funded.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		They have the nice towns, they get the infrastructure.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The persecuted Christians are getting nothing.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So the the Fulani militants are looked at as refugees.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		No, they're they're nomadic, so they're coming around and they're driving people off their land.
		So they go to a Christian village where there's Christians living and they're farming.
		So they're they're living here, they farm there.
		So they're living and farming in their area.
		They come in, they drive them out.
		No longer can they go back to the farm, or they can, they risk it.
		A lot of times they end up being killed, or the flanny come and cut.
		Like right now, it's it's uh harvest season.
		So they're going and cutting down crops.
		Corn that's growing, maize that's growing up is being chopped down, so they can't use it.
		You know, it's not fully reached fruition, so they're cutting it down.
		So they're they're destroying their farms, they're destroying their farms, destroying it just because they're they're they don't want them to have success, they don't want to have them to be sustainable.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So I'm I'm still I'm still not quite sure like what it is that the the solution or what the United States can do.
		And when I say can do, I'm not just talking about like what the U.S. is capable of doing, because I mean look, look, if the U.S. wanted to, the US could go in and take the government out and take over and make it a state if they wanted to.
		But I'm talking about like what is something that the the American people are gonna have the stomach for.
		And if the the American people aren't gonna have enough of a stomach to do what's necessary to actually help, how do you convince them?
		Because a lot of a lot of you know what I'm hearing is look, you know, the US can do it.
		Well, we live in a world where America generally doesn't have an appetite for you know, for for military adventurism, right?
		And and I think that you could probably convince most Americans look, if we're sending some green berets in to teach the the you know, teach the the people that are oppressed how to fight, they might be able to do that.
		But it doesn't sound like the Christians have any kind of organized resistance.
		You said yourself they don't even have guns, so they're they're not gonna be be able to to prop up some kind of militia that can fight the Falani.
		So I'm I'm still I'm still kind of at a at a loss as to what to do here.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		It it very well could happen.
		It very well could happen.
		Part of our ministry and what we do is we work with village security teams.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So that's risen in the last five years.
		Digital land to come vigilante, which is a bad word for us.
		It's a good local people who are trained by hunters how to use weapons, how to defend villages, any any attack, they respond first.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And we've been working with village security teams and and giving them training and giving, and it has been successful at thwarting off attacks and saving a lot of lives, uh, which separates us from other missions because we do get our hands dirty a little bit and working with uh working with these guys.
		And there is a sense, there is a thing, and even uh local Christian governors are saying, you know what, guys, government's not protecting you, go defend your own land.
		Yeah, go defend your own land.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Former leaders have said that too.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Christians, you need to defend yourself.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And um Nigerians, and so we're doing everything we can on a legal basis, like it we're we're just a we're a nonprofit.
		I can't give them weapons, but we can give them training.
		We can give we can show them basic uh intelligence gathering methods and measures to prevent and thwart off attacks to save lives, and that's what we've been doing on the ground out there.
		And so it is very possible, and there is a very motivated group that uh uh if if they had a leg up.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So, how do you can convince Americans and State Department that that's worth that's a worthy cause?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		But so that that's that's a stopgap.
		That that's that's because you're not doing anything.
		The big thing is America's the the superpower.
		No one's denying that.
		Nigerians don't deny that.
		They respect everything America does.
		When Trump says Nigeria's a shithole, they said, you're right, it is.
		You know, we need help.
		You know, so Europe needs to be told this is what you can do to help.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		You're not gonna get any help from Europe.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe I don't buy that from the state.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		He was in the UN condemning the EU and all that.
		Britain needs to help.
		You it's your colony, fix it, help us, you know, do something.
		Instead of doing this, let's do this.
		So these kind of things can be taught no money, maybe a plane ticket, maybe jet fuel, just conversations.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, I just want to say this as far as the EU is concerned, they've come out and said that the killing is occurring because of climate change.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		That's another one.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I'm not kidding.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I did not make that up.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, EU.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Isn't cow manure, isn't that the all these people are being killed because of climate change according to the EU?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So he can tell you where their mind is.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Clowns.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Right now, even if it was climate change, the Falani are they say because of the encroachment, the the the arable lands are being pushed south, and the filani got to come down further.
		They're still finding Christians to kill.
		So if it's climate change, great.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		But the primary driver, the the Sahara is exactly desert.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So the north of Nigeria is pretty much desert.
unidentified		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So they they say that's growing, encroaching on the arable land.
		So flani who take their cattle down south during the rainy season to get water and fed and they come back up to sell.
		They have they're they're causing problems.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		But there's yeah, but the the ones that are actually uh doing the the fighting and killing, they're nomads.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		They're not they're not farmers.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're killed.
		They have no passport, no idea.
		They're just coming in.
		They've been they've been trying to talk about this for years since the 60s, uh, grazing routes.
		They don't want to do that.
		You don't tell us where to go.
		This is our this we can take our cattle wherever we want.
		And the Christians are farming and and using land.
		Of course, there's gonna be conflict, but who handles that conflict?
		Is it the government?
		Is it the military?
		Is it a discussion between the Christian and the Muslims?
		Yeah, those kind of things are easily talked about without money, you know.
		So we can go in as America and say, let's let's let's have a sit down.
		We we'll just sit and watch, we'll cheer you on, you guys talk, and we'll fit we'll we'll chime in when we need it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		And and but they're not seeing those people.
		That's what we joke about this.
		The State Department's blinking.
		I was I was in Abuja when Blinken came through.
		He came through twice, and I saw the list of people he was going to see.
		None of these people have a uh skin in the game.
		They're all people that the the US uh uh State Department at that time, Biden's time, wanted to see uh talk to to Blinken.
		You know, there's no problem.
		It's it's yeah, we have a terrorist problem, terrible, but it's farmer herder.
		We just need to, you know, a little bit more money here, a little bit more money there, and we'll be fine.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So yeah, I'm just looking to see.
		Um I'm looking to see what what kind of news I can find on what Rubio's actually talking about doing.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Um he hasn't said much.
		So there is no policy on Nigeria.
		The all the documents that you look at from the State Department from 2023 and 24.
		That's one thing that we're trying to get the State Department to advise the administration to come up with an actual policy on.
		They have policies on visas, policies on other things, but there's real no policy on how to be solved Nigeria.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I mean every everything's been upended at the State Department.
		So they're so what we've been told is that Trump wanted to fix look at America issues first and get all that done and and in process, then we'll start looking at foreign uh policy and interests.
		And we're at the point now where they're starting to look at foreign policy and interests.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so there's a piece from not sure what just mania is, but it says U.S. Senators senators call for Nigeria to be redesignated country of particular concern.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Uh coalition of Republican senators in the United States has formally requested that Senate Secretary of State Marco Rubio reconsider labeling Nigeria as a country of particular concern under the International Religious Freedoms Act, citing persistent acts of violence and terrorism targeting religious minorities.
		The senators contend that Christians across Nigeria have been facing ongoing and extensive attacks.
		According to Sahara reports, the appeal was delivered through a joint letter endorsed by Ted B Senators Ted Budd, Josh Holly, Pete Ricketts, Ted Cruz, and James Langford.
		The lawmakers pointed out that Nigeria was previously classified as a CPC by former Secretary of State Mike Mike Pompeo in December 2020 due to serious violations of religious freedom committed largely by non-state actors, including including Boko Haram and other terrorist organizations.
		I know you guys say that this is the that it's the Falani, but if you do you think that in all of this stuff that we've read so far, like all the official pieces, it's always Boko Haram.
		That's that's named.
		So you hear is that is that functionally accurate, or is it is it functionally is it something that's going to get the the these types of bills or these types of of designations get them passed because they are from names that the American people and the and the senators and and stuff are are familiar with because again, f the name Falani, I'd never heard that before today.
unidentified		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So you so we said genocide at the top of the show, right?
		So genocide, the definition of genocide is any means or any of the following acts committed, and it's intent to destroy in whole or in part.
		Whether you kill one or whether you kill a thousand, that's the start of a genocide.
		Killing group members, causing serious harm, inflicting life conditions to cause destruction, preventing births, forcibly transfer of children.
		So we say this is a genocide, a targeted campaign against Christians.
		This is it's either an ethnic group or a religious group.
		This is a definite religious group.
		So this is a genocide.
		Let's call it what it is.
		Let's get this designation back, at least to make a statement, and let's stop the the killings.
		And then let's get the talks.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The country of particular concern, it needs more teeth, though.
		It needs more teeth and more like CPC is kind of lip service.
		In my opinion, it's important to make a statement, but the CPC needs to come with teeth.
		And um, but just to explain the the situation of country of particular concern, during Trump's admit first administration, he designated Nigeria as a country of particular concern.
		We saw attacks decrease during that time.
		Biden came into office within the first week.
		Nigeria was taken off the CPC list.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what the motivation for that was?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Nigerian government said we're working we're working on everything you gave us, these requirements, we did it.
		Take us off.
		No problem.
		That's what they did.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And there was no kind of investigation, there's no criteria that needs to be met.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		It's just the word of the government.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		No, and then and then what you see now again is an increase in attacks where this on average it was about 5,000 a year.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Now we're at 7,000 Christians killed this year alone in six months since January 1st.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And you said there's about 100,000 in the past 20 years or so.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we so you in inadvertently or whatever you want to say, um uh indirectly, there's over 300,000 have been killed by either by being starved out, by injury, by health, whatever.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So indirectly, it's well over that.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		100,000 by bullet machete burning, burning.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Okay.
		So I'm still I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the the policy, you know, because like I said, the the solve it today.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Let's do it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I mean, you know, that that's you know, that's we're we're here to to you know enlighten people on what what the issue is, but also what can be done.
		And again, my thought process is the American people are very focused, or at least conservatives, the people that are that are supportive of the Trump administration, right?
		Because the left is gonna do the same things that you're talking about.
		They're gonna say, oh no, everything's fine, you know, it it we there's no there's no problem, the Christians are doing just great.
		This is all just uh um some kind of BS because the knee jerk reaction, we were talking about this a little bit earlier.
		The knee-jerk reaction from the left um is that Christians are essentially not worthy of being protected or being paid attention to.
		Uh, in fact, they they should be attacked.
		Like Charlie Kirk was just murdered, and and his Christian faith had a lot to do with it.
		You know, the the LGBT, you know, groups out there really look at Christians and they believe that they have been persecuted by the Christians, and now is is the time for the LGBT groups to fight back.
		So whether it be using lawfare like the cake issue in in Colorado, the the you know, that got to the Supreme Court, the bake the cake bigot, you know, that was an attack on Christians.
		That wasn't about the the couple couldn't find a place to actually make the cake.
		They actually were going around to multiple places looking for someone to say no.
		The point was they wanted to make an example of Christians that were trying to try to, you know, that were professing their faith and saying, look, my faith doesn't allow me to do this because I don't agree with you.
		Not that not that they're looking to go ahead and and inhibit your life in any way, not that they're looking to go and stop you from being married, but they're specifically looking for someone to say, I have real religious convictions, so we should attack you, right?
		That that's that was the whole point of that.
		And now you've seen attacks instead of taking the form of lawfare, now they're taking the form of actual violence.
		You get a bunch of people that have the LGBT ideology.
		They believe that because Christianity actually does judge, that's it has a sense of right and wrong that doesn't align with their own, they believe that they're under attack, so the way that they defend themselves is to attack Christian children in schools, right?
		There's been multiple, multiple shootings where the shooter was trans, and the justification was, well, Christians are hateful.
		You know, they they hate me.
		So I went and I did this.
		And and these these people, these Christians that are that are the victims of these attacks are in no way doing anything to harm any kind of trans or or LGBT person at all, right?
		They're mostly going after kids.
		And the same thing was the justification for for the Charlie Kirk shooting.
		Well, he's a hateful person.
		And the only hateful thing they can come up with is he doesn't validate my lived experience.
		He he he makes me feel bad because he says, no, you can't actually change from man to woman or or woman to man.
		If you're born a man, you're going to always be a man.
		If you're born a woman, you're always going to be a woman.
		And and to actually say these things is something that the specifically the LGBT groups really consider an affront.
		They consider it an attack on themselves.
		And they and the more um the more loosely connected to reality people actually think that violence is an acceptable response to this.
		So that's why the left doesn't want to get involved in helping to defend Christians.
		That's why um you'll hear any number of leftists just poo-pooing the idea that Christians are being attacked for their Christianity in in Nigeria or in the US.
		They don't want to, they don't want to uh can you know say that's actually what's happening.
		So you're gonna hear have pushback of uh, you know, just the idea of helping them because they're Christians.
		I mean, again, back to Charlie Kirk.
		There were leftists protesting Charlie Kirk's uh funeral.
unidentified		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		How insane is that?
		I mean, this is this is this is so ridiculous to think this this guy got killed, and we're gonna go and protest his funeral.
		That that's the level of vitriol that Christians are facing now.
		And again, I'm I'm an agnostic guy, right?
		I I don't have a a particular uh particularly strong faith in any religion.
		I'm kind of like, I don't know what's you know, I Don't know what happens after you die.
		I don't know.
		Um, but I do know that there are definitely people out there that look at Christians and all they see is Jerry Falwell, they see the mega church pastors that are making a bunch of money, and they see Catholics that uh have you know, Catholic altar boys that have been molested and the church covering it up, they see only the bad things uh you know of the past 30 or 40 years, and they say, well, that's Christianity.
		So there's no reason to defend Christianity, ignoring the fact that our entire moral system here in the West, everything that we consider right and good is based on Christian morals, right?
		Like if we were, if we were if our if our society was based on the Aztec religion, we would think it's right and good to kill children so that way the sun keeps coming up.
		You know, the the Aztecs were were sacrifice, human sacrifice was totally normal.
		If we were in uh um an Islamic country based with an Islamic theocracy, we would think that it's perfectly perfectly fine to kill people for being gay.
		Not just not just say, oh, we we don't agree with the act of being gay, literally throw them off the highest building in town.
		Um, these kind of things, the the idea that that Western morale or the morality that we live under that we have, even people largely on the left, the morality that that they espouse that they say is is actually right and good, they to think that it's not connected to Christianity is an error.
		Yeah, and yet the left will swear up and down that the Christian that Christians are the problem and and it is so you're so how do you convince a population that has now been convinced that Christianity is the problem?
		How do you convince them hey, it's actually a worthwhile endeavor to try to protect these people?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's let's uh for for for those that uh uh on the left that may uh view Christianity that way, uh let's look at it from throw throw uh Christianity out of it, throw it go into a human perspective of men,
		women, children, elderly who can't run fast enough that are being slaughtered, being hacked to death with machetes being burned alive, um being treated uh in the most horrific ways, being left for dead, just from a human perspective.
		If if if there's any kind of humanity or morality at all in their hearts, these lives are worth saving.
		These are innocents, innocent people that have done no wrong, that are getting slaughtered and being killed.
		Just from a human standpoint, they deserve protection, they deserve intervention.
		When evil happens, good good, good needs to fight it.
		And there's nothing more evil than the slaughtering of children, innocent children burning a grandmother alive as she's holding her grandkids.
		This is what this is what this is what we've experienced.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what's the opposite?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		If you don't know, what's the opposite?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		If you don't intervene if you don't allow for voices to be raised or heard, then what are you doing?
		You're allowed, is it it's okay because my truth is to kill you, to slaughter you, to take over your land?
		Is that is that what we're saying here?
		Because if that happens, then what's gonna stop them from going to Ghana to Burkina to Europe to England to US, you know.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it it seems the answer is nothing, right?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Because that's that's kind of what Islam does.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And and look, look at history.
		Uh, and there's a there's a misconception with a lot of people that you know, um, where Christians are persecuted, that Christianity explodes.
		That does not happen in the case of Islam.
		That is does not happen in the case of Islam at all.
		Virtually every country that has been Islamized has not been de-Islamized without a war.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you you can look to Spain for that.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And the Christian populations shrink, shrink and shrivel and shrivel almost down to nothing.
		And people don't talk about how Islam conquered its way all the way into Europe.
		They even conquered Spain.
		Entire languages, entire cultures were wiped off the map That are no longer in existence.
		And it wasn't until the Crusades and the Europeans got their act together and pushed Islam back to the Middle East.
		But all that time, they enslaved people, they eradicated entire cultures, they put people in slavery until they died.
		And this is a history that no one really talks about or knows about.
		But the only way this evil was stopped was by force.
		It wasn't done through diplomacy.
		It wasn't done through things like this.
		It only responds to force.
		Evil is only stopped by force.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, the the concept of, you know, the only thing that will stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The Nigerian government way of trying to solve this issue is give the Falani ethnic militia money to stop killing people.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they've paid off.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They've they've come and deal with governments have come and deals with them, and it's like that's not gonna solve it.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		We're gonna be nice to them.
		We're gonna give you money, we're gonna give you trucks, we're gonna give you all sorts of stuff.
		Just quit killing people.
		That didn't work.
		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look at the Christians.
		So as a Christian, you the the golden rule, love your neighbor as yourself.
		So how do I love myself?
		I know how to wake up in the morning, I know how to get sleep, I know how to take care of myself, bathe myself, feed myself.
		I want the same for my neighbor.
		And you ask any Christian, that's what they they'll say, you know, if evil comes, bad things come, I turn my cheek, you know.
		But they've said now they're saying I've turned I've turned both cheeks.
		I got no more cheeks to turn.
		So what happens?
		They they want to care for their neighbors, Muslim, Christian uh uh uh animists, whatever.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And they were welcomed in with Christian charity.
		Christian charity.
		So you know, come on in, neighbor, we'll share with food, we'll we'll share land, we'll do this with you.
		They were given Christian charity, and that's where uh leftists uh and um very naive people, um, and you know, I say even some naive Christians believe that the Christian charity is going to somehow work by letting them in your land, and they know and Islam knows how to take advantage of every step of the way until they get the population and the political control.
unidentified		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Look at Dearborn, Michigan right now.
		Look at what's happening in Minneapolis.
		When they get the population and they get the politics, they take over territory and push everybody out.
		And then eventually, you know, if if it grows too much, there will be a time where violence occurs.
		Because this is how it's been since 640 AD.
		We have to acknowledge what's going on.
		So it is the moral and the right thing to do to stand up to evil, and it won't take a whole lot to do it.
		And it can be done.
		And why should people care?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		It should be done.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Why should people care?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Because if this came to your backyard, if this came to your neighborhood, came to your town, wouldn't you want somebody standing up for you?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Does this go further than just Nigeria?
		Now you said the Falanis are nomadic and they're they're not you know, they don't consider themselves Nigerian.
		Are other countries that surround Nigeria uh subject to the same thing?
		And and could you convince the other countries surrounding Nigeria that this is a uh a clear and present danger to them?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So but it happened.
		So Nigeria 2001, as you alluded to, uh uh September 7th, that Friday, September 11 was a Tuesday.
		September 7th, that Friday happened.
		Uh the some some Christians supposedly offended a Muslim, and then the Muslims rounded up themselves and started to attack Christian areas in Joss City where I was living.
		From that, you got So you were there?
		I was there, yeah.
		I was trying to save people's from being killed.
		You know, I was literally helping people get into my house from there being chased down the street.
		So you saw this happening, and then regionally, Niger, Mali, uh Burkina Faso, they started to see rise of uh terrorists coming in.
		You know, there's people wanting to fight the government that that they had, and for good reason, sometimes there's corruption, but they took it uh took it to a further extent, like the Felanies, like the the Boko Ram, they've kind of merged together with Al-Qaeda and ISIS and they started to do this.
		So the government, instead of uh trying to stop it, they just rose up and said, We're gonna do a coup.
		The president can't do it, he's his his willy-nilly stuff is not gonna work.
		We're gonna rise up and be a uh we're gonna take over a military-wise and fight.
		And who helped them?
		The Russians.
		So Burkina Faso has is now a military rule and it's well funded by Russians.
		In fact, some Burkina Faye, Burkina Bayes and and Malians and Niger were signing up to go to Ukraine to fight with Russia.
		Niger also has been a coup, and the military is a ruling there and Russia's there as well as in Mali.
		So it's just gonna keep spreading and it and then so all this is happening.
		No one's saying or doing anything.
		France left.
		They just took off.
		So now Russia's taking up of the vacuum and filling in.
		So if Nigeria, if that stuff doesn't happen in Nigeria, you're going to lose that sort of democracy in Africa, specifically West Africa, because Nigeria is is the they say it's the the trigger on the gun.
		If you take Africa, the continent turn it at the triggers where where Nigeria is.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah so like I I imagine you know you got you know the the the countries that are I mean Liberia is fairly close a couple you know probably a thousand miles away or whatever.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Um and that kind of those countries there they're they're largely influenced by the U.S. But that hasn't been or that is no longer the case correct?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Well again they're doing just they're doing diplomacy aid they're saying we'll give you this money but then take these LGBT take they take these issues and make sure you're doing this as well.
		Well they've stopped that so it doesn't happen but but so Burkina Faso wouldn't listen to France because France was telling them to just play nice and they wouldn't so they they said the only way we can stop it is militarily.
		So that's why the military rose up dethroned the president and now is a military uh dictator in Burkina Faso name in Nigeria because they know the threat that these terrorists these militants are doing and the only way to stop it is with force and that's what they're doing.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And if Nigeria falls, just say if Nigeria falls, so goes the rest of Africa.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		You think that the rest, the whole rest of Africa?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The whole rest of Africa falls.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you unpack that for me?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		The most populous country in Africa, 220 million.
		It's one of the most rich with natural resources, oil, all that.
		And if Nigeria goes and they get that population, they get those natural resources and minerals.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Nigeria is the most populous country in all of Africa.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		220 million.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Even more so than like Egypt, huh?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		All right.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		By far.
		So they will then easily take over Benin.
		Togo Ghana they'll have the whole continent in short of you know a decade.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And it'll be a bloodbath and millions and millions of lives will be destroyed.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So they're influential.
		So Nigeria as it as a nation is called into peacekeeping missions for uh African Union, ECOWAS different things for themselves so they've gone in Liberia they've gone into Sudan at the same time they've stopped crises in in east Africa.
		They've been part of discussions for South Africa.
		South Africa probably has a little bit better economy but but it's a worse situation than Nigeria as far as the the communism and socialism go.
		But but if Nigeria falls into these hands of militant uh Islamists it's just going to give everyone else hey all bets are off let's go let's just rise up and it's take over they're already creeping into northern you know but Benin and Togo and northern Ghana and and they Ghana's enacted laws to stop uh Falani for doing things Togo's trying Benin's trying but it's it's you know it's it's it's just waiting for Nigeria to fall yep.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay so I mean you know I I I get what you're saying about the the influence of of Nigeria um but I'm I'm not sure that I I understand why it is that the that Nigeria is such a a linchpin um I mean obviously the the population is a big deal um does the population overall want to fight back I mean you said it's 220 million half or so are are are Muslims.
		So, I mean, that's 110 million people, 110 million Christians that are like, oh, you know, we're on the chopping block and they don't have any political power to influence the government or they don't seem to be able to.
		Is that the case?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So what I said in the beginning was the 36 states, the federal government, the oil money, the oil revenues that come in, they divide it to the states.
		Here's your pot.
		Here's your pot.
		Okay, then the local.
		Here's your pot.
		Here's your pot.
		So it's coming from the top down.
		All the money.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you look at the map and is there a consolidation of Christians or are they spread out throughout the country?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Is it like?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		South is predominantly Christian.
unidentified		Okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		And it gets to about 50-50 in the middle and then it's mostly Muslim north.
unidentified		Muslim north.
unidentified		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So you look at the capital of Abuja, which is right in the center.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		The word Nigeria.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		South of Abuja, Christian.
		North of Abuja, right at the middle belt, 50-50.
		And then above the middle belt is Islam.
		So, right?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just by the look of it, you'd imagine that the Christians have more of the reason.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		the resources as opposed, like maybe maybe not the oil resources, but they don't have the military.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Military is often in the hands of the president.
		So the president sends troops in, you know, you're at the mercy of whatever the president wants.
		The governor's supposed to say we want troops, but the president could say, No, I'm gonna send them anyways, and and he gets in there, and then they do what he needs them to do.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And and the the top military command is Falani.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So they're they're nomads that are no longer nomadic.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So they have city felani and then nomadic flavor.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		City ones have been settled, they've got jobs, they're in politics or in it some sort of job, but and you know, their ideology could be the same, but just not as aggressive as not holding the weapon, but they're allowing things to happen.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		They're just basically like, well, you know, I'm I my life is is fairly uh I'm content in my life here, but I I am sympathetic to the ideas.
		Yeah, yeah, the other Falanese.
		Um yeah, I mean, can you can you tell me more about um about the the distinction between the the the Falani that are the nomadic and the Falani that are kind of the the ones that are um I guess normalized?
		Is it possible to to use the normal to convince the normalized to you know influence the the Falani that are are the uh the I guess for for lack of a better term, the militants?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean by and large, you like he was describing.
		So if a village has Christian farmers living there, and the Falani have come down for centuries, they've all come down, they ask the Christian leaders where can they set up their camp?
		They have these mobile uh tents that they can put up so that they set up there, they help them with the manure from the cows, life is grand.
		But then, as you said, sometimes militants come in and say, We're gonna attack this village tomorrow night.
		You need to either be gone or allow us to cover.
		So they or we'll kill you, right?
		So they've they threaten them.
		They can't you talk to Felani who are who are trying to stop, they can't because they they feel for their own they're threatening their own lives.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		You're saying Christian, the Christians are the Christians, they're not they're not the the uh the nomads at all, right?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		The Christian Christians are farmers, yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They've had cattle, but they're but they've kept them on ranches, right?
		So and then the the city felani are the ones that are you know settled down, they don't have cattle, maybe they have a cattle, but someone else takes care of it.
		But they they're in positions of power because of the the emirate that happened in 1805, the jihad.
		So the emir this, then the politicians, the British made them rulers, made them politicians.
		So the British kind of set up this whole catastrophic system, you know.
		And the Christians will even say this.
		Just let let's draw, let's put a wall in the north.
		You can have it, do what you want with it.
		You have no resources, maybe you have a little bit of nothing.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		I imagine, I mean, if you look at the just the the fact that the south is where you know it looks like all the things that grow grow and the north is the oil's all in the in the ocean on the south.
		Oh, so the oil's actually okay.
		Well, I mean, I I imagine that's not gonna be well.
		I mean, that that alone points to why the the northern uh f or the northern people would be pushing to the south because the resources are in the south, you know, that's where things grow.
		That's if the oil's off the coast, you know, that that makes perfect sense.
		Uh and and I don't I mean, I don't imagine that as much as we you know, we've been talking about if the U.S. kind of just puts a little bit of political pressure, a little, a little, you know, kind of gets like I said, the ISO on on them.
		I don't imagine that that that's actually gonna materially change the situation because the resources, whether or not there are ideologically motivated people, there might be ideologically motivated people that are that are like I'm willing to fight, but the people that are are in positions of power, they know where the the resources are, they know what where the money is, and it's not in the desert.
		It's it's you know, on the coast and and in the port and where the rain comes and and stuff.
		So how do you how do you deal with that particular you know dynamic?
		The the all of the resources are where the Christians are and all of the aggression is is coming from the north where the sand is.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		That's where the discussion, that's what we said.
		If we sit down, dad and the two two sons sit down and have a discussion, there could be something, right?
		Dad's respected, he's he's gonna be the the authority, but he's the moderator, the mediator between the two fighting quarreling brothers.
		Let's let's have that.
		Let's start with that.
		Because if you show them this is what you get if you continue to do this, this is what they may do or something may happen, and let's figure this out.
		You know, again, it doesn't take money, it just takes an effort to to someone to Say, let's do this.
		Let's talk this through.
		Let's see what you have and let's figure out what we can, you know, what you could do together.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And you know, I and if if that doesn't work, I'm for intervention because if this if this isn't stopped, there's going to be a lot more dead bodies very, very, very soon.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And if intervention can happen now, it will stop and prevent a civil war from happening.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So what is in your mind, what is that intervention look like beyond just the Secretary of State saying, hey, you know.
		Um does it look like troops on the ground, or is it something, or are you more thinking of because I mean we look, it's not going to be the UN, right?
		The UN peacekeepers aren't gonna aren't gonna be able to do anything.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		A major investment in Nigeria and that investment being protected.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So you're thinking something along the lines of uh um companies going in to expand on the natural resources there, and then possibly the US military protecting that?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Protecting and make and just ensuring well, have the Nigerian government ensure the protection of those investments, otherwise there's repercussions.
		But I think you're like it's a win-win scenario.
		Nigeria prospers, people aren't being killed, the economy prospers, and that is a very, very strong win-win scenario.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't I don't I'm not I don't think that the U.S. has the uh that the people of the United States are are I don't think that that you could make the case in a strong enough way where you could get um public support of that.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		We can get the Trump, we can get Trump support if there's a win-win scenario and a major return of investment back to the United States, and I think you can make that case, and I think American people would buy it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we'll flesh that out then.
		How do you how do you convince the American people?
		I mean, look, the the we're dealing with a population that doesn't trust the government, right?
		The the the trust in the in the American government has never been lower, right?
		And you've got a an extremely polarized political climate here.
		So half of the country is just gonna say no because it's something that Donald Trump talked about doing.
		And again, we we've already talked about the the way that the the left kind of looks at at Christians.
		So as soon as they get a whiff of oh, you're going into protect Christians, no, you don't want to do that because Donald Trump wants to do it.
		So I mean, you're talking about the landmine.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		It's the same same deal they did in uh the Congo.
		It's the same negotiations are doing the Congo, we could do the same thing in Nigeria, and the United States would buy it because uh one saving lives, two growing our economy and having you know, and expanding our influence and uh natural resources.
		I believe that American people that are smart enough would see the advantage in doing this.
		And you know, yeah, we might have a lot of isolationist skeptics out there, but at the end of the day, if there's money to be made for the government while saving lives, I think those that are in the power and make the decisions will make that decision.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		It's not coming to arm Christians so they can kill Muslims.
		That's not what we're saying.
		The religious tension is there, the religious liberties aren't, right?
		The freedom of religion is not.
		So a Muslim who becomes a Christian will be killed by his family, right?
		That's typically if you're the oldest son and you become a Christian from a Muslim family, you'll be killed.
		So there's no there's no rights for for that in the Islamic in the Sharia law, sort of something.
		As a Christian, I want to take care of everyone, my neighbor, myself.
		So I want to do that.
		So you start with the the discussion of how can we reduce this this tension?
		What can we do?
		Start with the police.
		The police in Nigeria are I say useless, it's maybe too strong of a word.
unidentified		They're not functioning, ineffective.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They're federal.
		They're they're they're paid by the the federal government, the whim of the president, and they're they they don't know what they're doing in local areas because they're not maybe from that area.
		So start with getting it, hey, let's go to states or local police.
		Let's start with there, because you're not protecting when when a crisis breaks out, the military is often sent in.
		And and people don't trust the military now.
		You know, people they you know, he talks to these reports of people being attacked and killed, or people just surviving.
		What were they wearing?
		Military fatigue.
		They're wearing camouflage, they've got their their names ripped off, or they've they you know, they're they either stole them from a military base or they they got them, they borrowed them or rented them, as he says.
		So, you know, those kind of things.
		Just a discussion on those, right?
		Having that providing a place to make make Nigeria safer, but also it'll make America safer, as I said, it'll stop that spread of radical Islam.
unidentified		Yep.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Um I'm still I like I'm I'm I mean the you know the the the because again the the realities of of where the American people are I I mean I see it all the time, right?
		Like even if you if you look at our chat now, there's a lot of people that are just like, how is this America's problem?
		Yeah, you know, and and so I'm I'm trying to it's America's problem because America is, period.
		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think that's the the thing is is we've I've said this, he's said this, it doesn't need money.
		It just needs a sit-down, a discussion, a deal to be made, right?
		It and then eventually we'll say we'll bring in this business.
		There's a huge market there.
		You know, uh uh phone companies have come in from Middle East, from South Africa, made millions, millions of money.
		Cars are being imported from Japan from well, jelgium, you know, different European countries.
		They don't want Chinese products.
		Everyone says, Do you want do you want original this good Japanese car, or do you want this cheap Chinese one?
		You know, do you want this old used uh iPhone, or do you want this new Chinese one?
		Give me the old iPhone.
		They don't want Chinese products.
unidentified		Okay.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So you have a market there that can be easily.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So there's demand for it then.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So do you think that there's demand for I mean, obviously the the Christians in in Nigeria would be like, look, we want as much help as we can get, you know.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		They just want their voice to be heard first, and that's what we're doing.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		We're just raising their voice, amplifying it, getting it heard by the right people.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		because they've been silenced by the mainstream media.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		It's been widely ignored.
carter banks ▲ ● ▼		I want a sit-down look, though, because it seems like one of these groups has a religious view that's just incompatible with any kind of progress in the direction of Christianity.
		Period.
		So, like, how do you convince them?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's if it's let's say it's governmental at that level.
		So US government, I said Masad Bulis, and uh um Ruby will go over, sit down with the Nigerian government and talk it through.
		They'll address it's not a religious thing, it's a local crisis.
		Well, why is that?
		What what why is it like this?
		What can we do to make sure that it it doesn't grow, doesn't spread.
		But we think we're hearing from other people that it is a religious, right?
		So this is why we think it is.
		And we'll put that CPC designation.
		It's kind of it's toothless as as Judd said, but it's also it's something we can use against them.
		You're not gonna get this age, you're not gonna get this status with the CPC country particularly concerned.
		So getting that discussion in, you know, we've got businesses who want to come in, whether it's from another African country or from America, from Europe, whatever, they want to come in.
		They can't.
		They they won't because it's unsafe.
carter banks ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		The electricity grid is terrible there.
		They've had problems with it, they've had so much money gone into it.
		They sell more electricity outside of the country than they use in the country.
		So there's electricity to be used, they're just not you know, making it stable for it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		How they generate generate their electricity is it is a high.
carter banks ▲ ● ▼		The other thing I was thinking about was guns, because it seems like only one part is allowed to have guns legally or loosely illegally.
carter banks ▲ ● ▼		So how would they be able to have them?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, if you need those.
		Yeah, to that to that point, how do you how do you if if hypothetically the US were to send in, you know, um military advisors, you know, because that I mean, that's the job of the Green Berets.
		Like people think a lot of people think special forces are special forces, but like the Green Berets, the job of them, their their job is ostensibly to go in, find existing military forces or or mil existing resistance forces and train them up and make them a functional military unit that can actually win engagements.
		Um but if there is only a handful of private contractors and there's not, you know, weapons and and et cetera, um how do you how do you arm uh the the population if there's if the law prevents them from having arms and and and the means to defend themselves?
		What good is uh uh you know a couple couple hundred Green Berets if uh if there's no one actually to train?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, the thing is is again it's it's education.
		So they you arm uh uh just a random Nigerian, uh they have to be learned how to use a gun, yeah, clean a gun, all that, all that.
		But you you have people that are already doing it.
		These hunting groups, they call them hunters association, but they're it's it's hilarious, but not hilarious, but they're they're armed and they're willing to fight.
		But they their guns are man-made, they're pipes and and just different things welded on.
		There are groups that are willing to protect villages.
		Like I said, vigilante, it's a bad word, but that's what they call their groups that are that are told to roam the the places where the hot spots are and they do that.
		They're willing to do that, they're doing it.
		So let's help them with the if the weapons have to be brought in and the government of Nigeria has to sign off on what's being in so we know the the serial numbers and all the the munitions, whatever, fine, whatever.
		But until you do that, you don't know what's gonna happen.
		Yeah, right now they're being out are outgunned.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Just to explain, so so they call the vigilante.
		They're village security teams.
		Yeah, these are people from the community.
		They're from their own village.
		They have the approval of the government to have they have the approval of the government to protect their village.
		They just they're they're just not armed.
		They're not armed with AK-47s.
		They're not armed with the same weapons as the terrorists are.
		If these guys got approval to defend themselves, you guarantee that a lot of the killings would stop if they had the ability to protect themselves.
		And that wouldn't take a huge investment from the United States government.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		It's just I mean, that just would I mean wouldn't that just take the the government of Nigeria to allow them to do that?
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		So is that something that the that state could pressure them into?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Be like, hey, it is definitely something state could pressure them into.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so uh a sit down with uh with you know Marco Rubio himself went over there and just said, hey, let these people defend themselves from these attacks, and is that something that's out of the question?
		Or or we're just waiting, you just do you think that it's just that the Rubio going over?
		No, no, I mean well, I mean, possibly.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look, sta you know, Marco Rubio's in the in the in the grand scheme of things, it's not a big ask.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		But it also it also puts the Nigerian government on notice is like how serious are you about protecting your own citizens?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And the citizens will be watching.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And watching to see how that government reacts.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		What do you think that they what do you think the rest of so say for hypothetically Marco Rubio say he doesn't go, but he sends uh sends the deputy right over and and he's got the full authorization uh what what the deputy says is what the State Department uh is the official position of the State Department?
		What is the rest of the world say?
		What is what do the groups in in the Middle East, what are the Middle Eastern countries say?
		Is it something that they're they just uh we don't care?
		Or or what would the UN say?
		You know, is is there is there going to be pushback from the rest of the world?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there'll be pushback from the rest of the world because the rest of the world is bought in with the far left and it's funded and controlled by uh by by Islamists.
		So anything that goes against their narrative and their objective, they're gonna raise all holy hell about, and they'll be like, oh, Trump wants a civil war in Nigeria, they'll throw out all sorts of insanity.
		I guarantee they will.
		But who cares what they say?
		They're in the wrong, they have been in the wrong, they've been advocating every wrong policy for the last 20 years and have destroying uh everything it touches.
unidentified		So well, they're not gonna do anything they're not gonna do anything.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		No, they'll but they'll just cry and and is it likely that there would be um so the US sends some kind of support and the Christians decide they're gonna start you know defending themselves.
		Will there be an influx of of Islamic radicals of of other you know Muslims from other countries?
		Will they say this is where the jihad is now?
		Uh like there was in af in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
		Is that something that's possible?
		Could this turn into a larger conflict because they say, okay, look, they're Christians, they're there.
		It's now they're attacking the Muslims.
		There's you know, half the country is Muslim, so we have to go and defend our Muslim brothers.
		Is that something that that you could see?
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I I don't I don't think it'll be to that extent.
		I think so when we they we have to engage other countries, Middle East, Europe, sure.
		Just to say, look, stop giving aid, stop giving your your resources, your food, whatever you just stop it for a while.
		Let's take this action.
		What this action of of of talking to to the government and say we're all coming together to say this.
		If they don't want to come, then it's on them.
		But we're gonna try this.
		Let's give this a chance.
		If it's arming or these vigilante groups or make them better equipped, that would send the signal to any other group that hey, these guys are equipped too now, so I don't want to, I'm not, I'm not risking my life.
		Right now, I I outgun them.
		I can just go in and do random, you know, I don't have to worry about that.
		But if now I'm being equal, now I'm now my life it maybe Is more valuable and I will stop.
		And I don't think it'll rise up a bigger terrorist, you know, from Northeast.
		They'll continue to be driven down by the military, but the Fulani militants, I think, would hear here would see the the reaction and I believe would slow down or stop.
unidentified		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		I agree with his point.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Um do you think that that the possibility of of it becoming uh you know an inflection point prevents the uh the or do you think that's what that's what prevented the the previous administration from doing anything?
		Or is it just a matter of well, they don't really believe that there is a problem that the U.S. should be involved in.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		I think it was both, I mean, for sure it was they they I mean, even Nigerians will say we don't need Americans to solve our problem.
		We need to be heard, we need to make sure that the Nigerian government is seeing what's actually happening.
		I think that's the first step, right?
		And they there it's not about and and they weren't there.
		The the all that the Biden administration was listening to was the Nigerian government.
		They weren't listening to the people.
		We would, you know, if we set up uh scenario, we took over Massab Bulis Rubio, showed them what's going on in in these IDP camps, show them what's going on in these these where the terrorists or the the the bandits have kidnapped people and are torturing them, show them what's happening, he'd have a better take on what's going on.
		That would probably be our first thing.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		But we need action.
		We need action and we need it to happen now.
		Um, like I said, if it action does not happen, it's going to be a bloodbath, there will be a civil war.
		And you know, right now we have 3.5 million Christians that are barely getting any aid, any help.
		We have a crisis on the ground right now, or people are starving, people are dying of cre of diseases.
		They weren't getting any help from USAID in the first place.
		But um, I'm making an appeal to the audience.
		Uh there are innocent people, there are Nigerians that need your help.
		If you don't want the government to get involved, if you feel compelled, donate, support.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		And I'll plug my website, equipping the persecuted.org.
		If you want to help persecuted Christians in Nigeria, partner with us.
		Um call your senator, call your congressman.
		If you want the United States to get involved, ask your senator and congressman to get involved politically, intervene on behalf of persecuted Christians.
		Um, but doing nothing is going to result in a lot more death.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Um, well, why don't you guys uh I mean that's kind of like a a wrap up.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		No, that's fine.
		That's fine.
		That's fine.
		It's uh we're you know, we're cut we're just about two hours in as it is.
		So uh Kyle, if you have any uh closing thoughts, and actually, Judd, do you have where can people find you?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		So they can go to equipping the persecuted.org, all one word, equipping the persecuted.org, partner with our organization, we got boots on the ground, we respond to these attacks within 48 hours.
		We work with village security teams, we do medical interventions in the IDP camps, and we need all the help we can get.
		We're underfunded.
		I don't get grants, government funding.
		It's all private donations.
		And then if you want to follow what's happening in Nigeria from a news standpoint, go to truthnigeria.com and pray for these guys because they're risking their lives every day to tell the truth about what's happening and share the articles, help their voices be heard.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Kyle, you got anything last words and I mean.
kyle abts ▲ ● ▼		So we're doing so icon is international committee on Nigerians, the website's icoon icon help.org.
		Um, we're more the the behind the scenes, we're gathering data and information.
		So we've got some of his guys, some of our guys going out and when the crisis happens, they they document it using an app.
		And it's it's it's uh it's uh it's uh evidence, you know, it's locked in the cloud, so it's it's evidence we can use that for either it's the international criminal courts or it's the UN, you know, those kind of things can happen.
		So I think, yeah, just get get aware of what's going on.
		You can say how does this affect America?
		It already does.
		You don't even realize why should we be given billions of dollars?
		We shouldn't.
		We shouldn't be involved militarily, but we are.
		So what are we gonna do?
		We're gonna have to figure out how to stop it.
		So let's let's as he said to contact your Senate, your Congress, get them to say, hey, look, I know there's things on Nigeria, what's going on?
		Let's let's stop this.
		Get President Trump, as I said, he he's he says something and it and it happens.
		So just you know, as much as you can if you can get to any legislature, any any politician, you know, do it.
		Democrat or Republican.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		And you're you guys you have uh uh an ex account people can follow you at or or anything like that, no?
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you follow me, Judd Saul on X. Judd J U D D S A U L. Uh follow us at e uh equip the persecuted uh on on X. You can find me on Facebook equipping the Persecuted on Facebook.
judd saul ▲ ● ▼		Um just thank you for for having us on and we encourage your audience spread the word this is a genocide that has been completely ignored and we need people to speak about it.
phil labonte ▲ ● ▼		Okay.

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