Epstein Scandal WON'T GO AWAY, Does Epstein MATTER To MAGA? w/ Colonel Kurtz & Shane Cashman
BUY CAST BREW COFFEE TO SUPPORT THE SHOW - https://castbrew.com/ Become A Member And Protect Our Work at http://www.timcast.com Host: Phil @PhilThatRemains (X) Guest: Colonel Kurtz @colonelkurtz99 (X) Shane Cashman @ShaneCashman (everywhere) Producers: Lisa Elizabeth @LisaElizabeth (X) Kellen Leeson @KellenPDL (X) My Second Channel - https://www.youtube.com/timcastnews Podcast Channel - https://www.youtube.com/TimcastIRL
Topic of conversation on the left and the right for the better part of, well, I mean, honestly, for the better part of four or five years now.
And today we're here to answer the question: does Epstein matter to MAGA?
Is this really an important topic, or is this just something that's juicy that people love to glob onto because of all the salacious parts of it and because of all the implications with foreign influence and stuff?
I know that there are different opinions on how important Epstein is.
I personally think that what you'd call the normie voter, this doesn't really register with them.
I think that there are very committed, small, vocal groups that believe different things about what Epstein was doing and what it means for not only U.S. politics, but global politics.
I know there are people that believe that there were crimes that were committed that were not exposed when Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and Ghislaine Maxwell was tried and stuff.
But I'm interested to hear what you guys think about what it means for MAGA and also what it means for the future of not just the Republican Party, but also for the U.S. as a whole.
So I think there's probably going to be a kind of a delayed effect with this.
I think a lot of voters and people in MAGA are sort of hanging back and waiting to see if there's any there there here after all, or if this is just another, you know, fake news story as Trump has been trying to sell it.
But I think that Trump seems to me, I know a lot of people say, oh, well, he's always a little unhinged or he's always kind of off message or what have you, but he seems like he has really been flailing to me on this in a way that I've not seen since COVID.
And to me, there's just a qualitative difference.
That Truth Social post from several days ago when he was calling those of us who are interested in this subject weaklings, I thought it was just astounding.
And again, even for him, off message, unhinged, and he gives the impression that he's hiding something.
I'm not saying that he is, but he gives the impression that he is, or at the very least, that he's very uncomfortable with this line of thought for some reason.
So what I think is that right now there are a lot of people, a lot of Trump supporters, MAGA people who are holding back and are sort of reserving judgment.
But I do think that over time, there's going to be a cost to this if it is not resolved in some way, if people don't get answers, if there are not files released.
And by the way, the release, if anything is released by Pan Bondi, it can't just be some little trickle at something.
I know Trump said, okay, we're going to release grand jury.
He wants the grand jury testimony released.
Okay, which grand jury testimony?
What is the extent of that?
You know, he said, well, and he kind of qualified it, right?
He said, he wants it released if it's what credible?
Or, okay, well, that sounds like lawyers speak to me in a way.
So I know that there have been polls showing that Trump's support has not eroded, that in fact his support has gone up.
But I think that there's probably a delayed effect with this.
I think that this could be a kind of an Achilles heel situation for him, but we will see.
Or what would you say to people that say Trump's response is frustration because outside of the Epstein debacle, which they handled, I agree they handled poorly and it makes sense that people are questioning it.
But outside of that, Donald Trump has had success after success after success after success.
And currently all people want to talk about is the Epstein stuff.
And it's gotten to the point where it's not just people that are in the weeds politically, it's people that would consider, you'd consider normies.
And as an example, so there's this show called Two-Way, which is Mark Halperin and Sean Spicer's on it.
Dan Tureen is on it.
They're very normy politicos.
You see it on the New York Times, their podcast daily.
They have to talk about it.
And these are outlets that generally would avoid this topic, but because there's so much heat around it, they're forced to talk about it.
And again, Trump has had so many things that have gone so well for him since the election.
What would you say to people that say, well, look, if you were the president and had done all these things and you had all this great stuff with immigration, having so much success and you just got the Doge cuts actually codified and you got the big bill and you got all this, what would you say to people that say he's just frustrated with the fact that people are focusing on this Epstein thing as opposed to all of his success?
So your take is that when people are talking about the deep state, they're talking about things like espionage and intelligence agencies as opposed to the deep state being the entrenched bureaucracy.
Because in my, the reason I ask is it's my opinion that the deep state is less about intelligence assets and more about people that work in government and they want to make sure that they can continue making their car payments.
They're unelected.
They have jobs, you know, GS-15s or whatever.
They want to continue making their payments on their mortgage.
They want to continue making their payments on their cars.
They want to make sure that their kids can still go to school.
And so that entrenched bureaucracy is interested in keeping the status quo, not because there's some massive conspiracy based in international espionage, but it's people that are like, no, I just want to make sure that my pension is taken care of and I'm going to keep doing, I want to make sure that we can keep doing what we're doing.
And even people who may not have a conspiratorial worldview or who may not be as interested in the things that you're talking about right now, most people still have a fear or a suspicion that there are shadowy things going on in our government and even non-conspiratorial people.
And this Epstein thing, look, most people draw a hard line at abuse of children.
And of course, I know that there's in some of these discussions, there's some gray area about, okay, are we really talking about children?
Are we talking about young women?
And there have been claims that for the most part, Epstein actually was into just barely of age women.
People don't make those distinctions.
People have put Epstein firmly in the category of a sicko.
And I saw that private investigator talked about that, that he investigated Epstein and as soon as the girls were out of braces and he wasn't really interested in them.
I don't know the truth totally who does about Epstein.
But the problem is that there's so many people on Trump's side, in his administration, even Donald Trump Jr., as you know, who up until just recently, J.D. Vance, up until just recently, were touting this as a significant issue that needed to be exposed.
And now all of a sudden, there's nothing to see here, guys.
The martyr made just that guy, Cooper did the Tucker thing, and he went over this.
And it's factual.
You know, Whitney Webb has also talked about Ryan Dawson.
All those people have talked about this.
It's true.
Epstein was a young Cooper Union dropout who was hired at like 21, working at the Dalton School, hired by Donald Barr, whose son would eventually oversee him being imprisoned under Trump.
You know, it's bizarre stuff.
You can get way more conspiratorial in terms of the books he wrote about sex trafficking aliens a year before who wrote those books?
But I think you can't deny these strange connections.
Like, you know, I don't believe in coincidences.
And the fact that this guy is involved in those people, with those people's lives, CIA intelligence, like I said, all of them across the world, that is an indictment on who this guy is, the people he was running with.
I mean, it's crazy that he was born on inauguration day, the day Eisenhower was inaugurated, and he's entrenched himself.
They still have, there is still a kind of an accumulative effect of all of the negative, mysterious, horrible things that people have heard about Epstein.
And by the way, things that have been confirmed.
I mean, this man, I mean, even Dan Bongino, before he became FBI director, as you know, deputy FBI director, he was talking about how he knew people in the deep state who've said, yeah, he's an intelligence asset.
This is something that even Acosta cited as a reason why he couldn't adequately prosecute him in Florida.
So it's not, what I'm saying is this is not just some far out like Diddy thing.
You know, I don't believe there was a conspiracy with Diddy.
I think that was just a per, I know y'all disagree, some of you, but I think that was just a kinky guy who had something going on with some escorts and with his girlfriends, right?
This is different.
This is not just conspiracy theories.
This is something that has been extensively litigated through the court system.
Yeah, and like that stuff with the, what I'm saying with Donald Barr, it's weird and it's the minutiae, but then that guy evolves into someone who is in the upper echelons of societies around the world.
You know, his dealings with Lex Wesner, like why he became power attorney of that guy, this guy who was Victoria's Secret, Bed Bath, and Beyond.
You know, why is this guy running with arms dealers?
Why is he friends with all of these people from Bill Gates to Bill Clinton?
And then the things that make it even weirder are that Ghelaine Maxwell's connections, you know, her father was Robert Maxwell.
I was saying this on IRL on Monday.
Robert Maxwell is a strange dude.
He had clear connections to the Mossad.
It wasn't maybe not Mossad, but they were a part of a big scandal, the Promise scandal with stolen spyware that was used against Americans in other countries.
And he died mysteriously.
And Robert Maxwell was like a Murdoch competitor, right?
He owned Pergamon Press.
Big dude with a lot of connections.
And it's just, I don't think we can overlook how these powerful people get entrenched in our societies and have a major effect on everything.
So like what I was saying earlier, economics, you know, the wall, immigration, all this stuff, I think, is a part of the larger, the tentacled monster that these people want to maintain, control for their own good.
We do have like hard factual stuff to talk about, but I legitimately personally believe that this is an ancient strain of evil that has been on earth since the fall of man, and they are here to feed off human suffering.
And they do that by hurting all of us while also destroying children and innocence.
You can't just say, well, the actual evidence that you're presenting is just fake, but you should totally believe that it matters that he was born on the 20th of January.
But like the thing about Normie's not believing in it, I think, is an indictment on journalism's unwillingness to take this case seriously, like looking beyond just the crimes, because I think it goes deeper than, you know, children being hurt is horrendous.
But this is a thing, this is a pattern in our country and the world for, I mean, forever.
You know, we have major people, you could look at the Franklin scandal, you could look at Michael Aquino, all these people.
So he was a French guy and he literally just enjoyed hurting people.
And people in power, if they are malevolent and if they actually have evil intentions, which I don't dispute, there are people that are like that.
I don't think that this is unique to our time or that it's something that is unique to a certain group of people.
I do think that there are powerful people that are actually good people, that are actually trying to do you good.
But clearly, there are absolutely powerful people that are, I mean, for lack of a better term, evil, that actually want to hurt people.
I just don't know that the existence of those people means that we have the ability to just point to people and say, well, because you're in the elite, you are these people.
And I think that's what people are.
There's a lot of people that get wrapped up in that, in the whole, well, they're the elite.
Even if we were putting aside quote-unquote conspiracy theories about world paradigms, just look at the way that this has been mishandled PR-wise by Trump.
So what would you say to people that say, well, look, they looked like that because they had some sense of how it was going to be received.
They remember all the things they said and they're like thinking in the back of their mind, they're like, I can't believe I got to get on here and I got to say this.
People are going to think I'm lying because I was so blah, blah, blah.
But, you know, there's just, I saw it and this is actually true.
But you're acting like Dan and Cash and the Trump administration have done some kind of stellar PR operation and people just aren't able to accept it because I specifically said already that I'm not.
So then my answer to you would be, what can they do?
They can do a better freaking job of presenting this.
I would come out and I would say, look, guys, I know that we pumped this up, but here's what's happened.
We got into these files and we found that we didn't have this.
I don't think the influencers knew what they were getting into, but I do think someone in the administration knew what they were doing by printing out binders and walking them out in front of photographers, even though they'll be like, the photographers are there for some ambassador.
They knew damn well they were walking out for a photo shoot.
I know the influencers didn't really know what was going on, but they were now having this conversation today and looking back at everything that's happened, do you think that it was a setup?
I think they knew this was the way things were going to go.
And also the fact that Trump does have an established, and I understand that he says that he ended it and he kicked him out of Mar-Lago and whatever, but he has an established history with Epstein.
I know we don't know how extensive that was, but when the New York magazine decided to do an expose on Jeffrey Epstein, who was one of the main people they talked to as a character reference, so to speak, as Trump, that says something.
And that's what Phil was talking about earlier, though, is I do take into account this guilt by association thing because when you're someone like Epstein, his goal was to infiltrate every institution from Harvard, art, Hollywood, science.
So like Trump was that guy.
So you're bound to be, you know, around him for photo ops and at parties and all that stuff.
But I don't Think I personally don't think Trump's implicated.
I don't think he's guilty.
I think his frustration probably stems from the fact that what he's been told about this case doesn't jive with his base, and now they're really mad.
And he's like, Well, I saw stuff that refutes that, but the messaging from him, from everybody, is poor.
You know, we could look at why Bongino and Cash looked like it was a hostage situation on that Fox interview.
And maybe they're spooked because they saw something far more nefarious.
Not to go too crazy again, because you know how easy that gets, Phil.
But like, I think Epstein's alive.
I think they found out that he's in witness protection or something, that they've used him as the asset he was, got him out, and he's somewhere living his life.
I want to drill down on that point just because I want to make sure I understand what you actually do think.
Why don't you do me a favor and articulate what you actually do think in terms of his death?
Well, not just that.
What do you think Epstein was actually involved with?
Because we talked a little, I don't know if we haven't said it today, but I'm of the mind that there are at least two major opinions that the passionate people have.
And I want to know which one you kind of fall into.
And then that Tartaglion says he cut him down because he had a razor blade in his jail cell.
I also want to mention Tartaglion on the night before this all happened, got a cell phone in his cell.
Remember, this is a very corrupt prison in New York City.
Lots of problems there.
Whatever happened, Tartaglion has his own story.
There's the official story.
Whatever happened, that's what moved Epstein to where he would not live anymore, according to the official story.
I think since he's such a powerful asset connected to such powerful entities in our country and all around the world, considering his lineage of Robert Maxwell, who did very similar things and, you know, hook his daughter up with Jeffrey Epstein, you know, was in a yacht called Lady Ghelane.
Anyway, I think they switched him out.
I think they got a body double or something and they brought Epstein out alive and let him live for they either they acquired that information and said move on.
And we have a history of doing things like that in this country, of seeing horrendous nightmarish stuff go on and our government, the status quo, the evil status quo government being like, we want that information.
We're going to use it.
And a good example of that would be like a Unit 731 in Japan after World War II, when we gave everyone over their amnesty for the information on vivisection, on living people, freezing hands and shattering them.
Like, that's just one of like many examples of how we like to acquire what we think of as torture, evil information, and use it.
So I think Epstein is probably still alive.
I think that whole thing was weird.
There's discrepancies in the autopsy.
Michael Baden, Dr. Michael Bodden, he doesn't believe it was a suicide.
He reviewed the autopsy.
I think, I don't know if he's actually with the body or if he reviewed the autopsy, but Boden's just interesting because he did JFK's brain autopsy and all that stuff.
He did Shannon Gilbert, who was a victim of the Long Island serial killer.
So he talks a lot about the hyoid bone and Epstein's broken three places, which isn't really consistent with a suicide.
It's more consistent with a strangulation and a homicide.
I was just going to say, too, another way in which the Trump administration has just utterly botched this is to put out, finally, after an extensive delay, to put out this footage and tell us, look here, guys, we've got it, we've got it.
And then, oh, it turns out there's a minute missing.
Oh, well, we can explain that.
This is what normally happens every time that it reboots everything.
And then it turns out Wired Magazine looks at the metadata, which why is it not, it's just a no-brainer now that people are going to look at metadata.
Like from the Baldoni thing to this, that should have been expected.
Well, you look at the metadata, and it turns out, no, there's like three minutes missing from that video.
So what you've done, what they did is they were thinking that that was going to help them, I suppose, and relieve people's suspicions by putting that video out there.
And instead, it just tremendously reinforces the narrative that we're being lied to.
And talking about why people are skeptical of Trump and of this situation right now, that is hovering in the background as well.
The fact that most people feel, as we do, that that was never resolved, that no attempt was even made to account for that guy's motives, Thomas, his history, all of that.
And so we've got that in the background.
And there's just this sense, you know, I think that we understand this sense that there is something pervasively wrong in our government right now.
Yeah, most people don't really find objection with that.
Because they're like, well, yeah, I mean, if I had a job, I'd want to keep my job and I'd want my kids to go to school and I want to keep making my mortgage payments.
So that makes perfect sense that there's people that work in the administration or work in the government that want to keep their jobs.
But if you're like, hey, they're all blood-sucking vampires and they're the ones that are in control, then people are like, it's a tough sell.
I mean, there is such a long history in this country of vampires, like people who are harming kids and videotaping themselves do it.
Go look up Earl Bradley.
Oddly enough, Bo Biden, who Joe Biden never really talked about in terms he should have, Bo Biden put an end to a pediatrician videotaping himself, harming children in his basement.
I'm not saying that, you know, horrible things don't happen.
Everyone knows that Ed Gein was a person.
Everybody knows who the Night Stalker was.
Everybody knows about Jeffrey Dahmer, which, you know, some of the most macabre serial killers and stuff.
So there's no question that it does happen.
And it makes perfect sense that if there are people that are powerful, that have influence and they happen to be those types of serial killers or have that kind of malicious and sadistic inclination, then they're going to use their power to cover it up.
I don't think that there's hundreds I think it's so pervasive because like an example I typically make is like look you can go look up stories of politicians with trial porn and it's insane or people who've been abused or the way they wield their power.
Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I think that when you're talking about that number of people and that number of people that have like dark triad traits, because generally to become a politician, you're a little on the, I think it's psychopaths tend to be politicians.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
That kind of stuff, I think that they're probably overrepresented.
But at the same time, I don't think that, you know, if there's 435 members of Congress, I don't think 300 of them are politicians.
I don't know if all of them are, but I know a lot of their, I guarantee a lot of the staffers are, and a lot of those unelected bureaucrats probably take part take in this as well.
And the weird parties they do, you know, you look at George Santos saying recently about those cages they had beneath the offices where all these weird sexual things were going on, Senate staffers sodomizing each other in congressional hearings.
I'm more apt to believe that there is insane debauchery going on in Congress and with staffers in D.C. than I am to believe that there are multiple people committing murder and drinking the blood of the people.
To an extent, I kind of think, too, that we're almost getting in the weeds with this of like, how depraved is Congress?
How depraved is our government?
I mean, the point is, is that people, even if they're not educated on all this stuff or they don't share these specific beliefs, people have a general sense that there is something very wrong with those in control of our government and our society, right?
So all you have to do is have something that taps into that and then has some basis in fact, which as we know, there's a lot of basis in fact for thinking that Epstein was hooked into upper echelons.
To that point, doesn't it, doesn't, do you, do you think that the argument that, well, people generally don't like Congress, but they generally like their congressional representative, do you think that that feeds into it?
People are like suspicious of Congress and they think something's going on, but then if you drill down, do you think your representative is doing it?
No, not mine.
That's my sense.
My sense is people would be like, well, no, I think my congressional representative is good.
And the something nefarious is going on, something bad is going on probably ends at the familiarity of their own.
You know, totally neglecting FBI whistleblowers who've had their lives completely ruined for calling out FBI's unethical practices, who have not been rehired, who are completely destroyed by lawfare, one of many within FBI, and congressmen who represent these whistleblowers have done nothing, you know, and is not even say anything.
Well, and that gets into something else, too, that I think is going to increasingly generate, if this is not better handled, this is increasingly generate anger, is that people have also the feeling that we are held to different standards than those in charge of our government.
And so there's a sense, no matter what it is, that they're getting away with stuff.
And so when you have something like this that comes along where people trusted the Bush administration, people trusted the Trump administration, they trusted Bongino, they trusted Patel, and then all of a sudden, and Pam Bondi has been talking out of her ass for months.
Oh, I've got truckloads of it.
It's on my desk.
I'm looking at it.
It's getting closer.
I can see it.
The file is getting closer.
I'm going to have it.
And you know, it's like a horror movie.
You're supposed to, it's creeping up any day now.
But, and, and nothing.
And for most people, that is just, it's a bridge too far.
It's too much to ask people to to tolerate these dramatic reversals, the sense of gaslighting, the condescension.
And again, Trump attacking his own base at this point.
I think that what you're talking, I think what you're articulating is an issue of familiarity, not an issue of it being isolated to the West.
I imagine, considering the fact that most people would consider Eastern European countries as uniquely corrupt or countries that are not Western more corrupt than the United States, I think that it's probably not just more pervasive in Eastern Europe and in other parts of the world, but it's actually looked at as normal.
Well, I mean, not only that, but like in other parts of the world, not only is it considered normal and not shocking, if you're under a monarchy, most monarchies can just say, well, we're doing this and it doesn't matter what you think.
And if you raise your head up and say that this is a problem, we'll just have it cut off.
So I just want to say, like, thinking again about people who aren't plugged in and wondering why this is so important, wondering, I personally don't think it's just online voices screaming about Epstein.
They're the only people who seem to care about it.
And then thinking about his sweetheart deal in prison and then people saying, well, he just killed himself and just writing it off.
I don't think Epstein was a suicidal person.
I think knowing how he was treated in prison in Florida, that dude had a sweetheart deal after a ton of people came forward with corroborating evidence saying he harmed children.
I think he knew so many people in power that he had no fear of prison.
I think that whole thing was designed for him to get out of that one jail cell and maybe they used Tartaglion as a sort of patsy of sorts or maybe he's in on it.
I don't know.
To get him alone, to get him his freedom so they can keep doing these things.
Right, but after the whistle was blown, after people realized what he was up to, why would they even I think that's why you have to have a cutout is because he's not technically CIA.
He's not technically Mossad.
You know, when the prime minister, the former prime minister just came out recently saying he was, I can tell you verified, he was not Mossad.
I'm like, yeah, I'm sure.
Like, I'm sure he worked with you, though.
Like Robert Maxwell worked with you.
He wasn't technically Mossad, but a lot of people who are not technically CIA, but you're still an asset.
Yeah, he was smooth and he just had these connections.
I mean, I think he was groomed into these positions and used.
And maybe because they knew what his proclivities were, you know, and they used that, say, hey, he felt above the law.
And I just want to say here, too, the fact that he received such an obvious easy deal in the Florida situation and that really it seems like for years people were over the government was overlooking his crimes.
There's no way to explain that except to say that he must be connected to or entrenched with the government.
And so the problem then with Trump or his people trying to pass off now the idea that there's nothing to see here and this was just a perverted guy committing crimes in isolation is that that does not then explain why he was allowed to get away with it for so long.
Either he was allowed to get away with it or he got these easy deals like in Florida because of his connections like Acosta said and his usefulness to the government and his and his or he wasn't.
Oh, so you're saying that they would say that the rationale for him getting basically such an easy ride and being for so long tolerated by the government was because of his connections to powerful people.
I mean...
Are we supposed to understand that?
Okay, so the argument would be then that Clinton and the Clintons were pulling strings in the government to keep their buddy out of trouble?
Well, that was because they were making sure, or the Clintons, specifically Bill Clinton, was making sure that he put a little pressure on people like, hey, don't go ahead and look into this too much.
So if it's as serious as you say it is, and there was this risk of Trump coming in and unleashing it all, who in their right mind would keep that evidence around?
I actually have a problem with the idea of keep this around because even things that were written down, once you digitize it and make it into a file, it never actually goes away.
So it's possible that some of the originals were destroyed, but as soon as you scan it into a computer, then there are infinite copies.
It all depends on how it was digitized, first of all, where it was kept, and what type of internet it was kept on.
And when I say type of internet, the United States has what they call a CIPRNet, which is internal internet that doesn't actually connect.
It's air-gapped from the actual regular internet.
It follows the same state protocols, but it doesn't actually ever connect.
And that's why you have to go into a SCIF, Secret Compartmentalized Information Center, to actually see something.
So if they took these Epstein documents and digitized them and put them onto the CIPRNet, I think it's called, then that would be totally isolated and you have to physically go to a SCIF and actually plug it, your computer in and get it that way.
I do want to, Devil's Advocate, push back a little bit on the idea, though, that it's so crazy to think that Epstein might have killed himself.
I read a biography of him or an article about him in Vanity Fair from, I think it was 2003.
And it was an interview with him.
And one of the things that was interesting about that is he claimed that he never ate out at restaurants, that even the best New York restaurants, five-star restaurants were just untenable for him, that he had to have his food cooked just a certain way by his chefs.
And I'm thinking, how is a guy like that going to fare in the Brooklyn unit?
There is a cumulative effect, though, over time, where, again, I think it's early to be gauging public reaction to this public sentiment.
And there are a lot of people who still don't even aren't even following the story, don't know that there's this huge disconnect right now between Trump and his administration and then the American people.
So I do think that the longer that this story continues.
I'm saying that I don't think a lot of people are still really aware to the extent that there is this growing disconnect here between Trump and the MAGA.
Okay, all right.
But so I'm saying like over time, I do think the longer that this continues and if it continues to be embarrassing toward Trump, if he can't find a way to combat this, you know, the Wall Street Journal article did him a favor because whatever the merits may be of that story, to most people, it did look like bullshit.
And so I do think he's gotten a bit of a reprieve.
I think that it certainly, look, on face value, it seems Like it's bullshit, but I am now so skeptical because of the way that Trump has been behaving, the way that certain people in his administration have been behaving, and also because it is, again, it's Epstein.
There are certain components of this that have been, this conspiracy idea that have been at least proven by even Costa saying like we couldn't, we couldn't fully prosecute him because he's tied in with the government.
You know, I know that that writing or the way that the Wall Street Journal relayed the writing of that birthday card or whatever, I know that it did not sound like Trump, but if someone is putting together a cheeky packet of birthday messages for someone and they say Ghelane Maxwell said to Trump, we're going to put this together for Jeff, make it something really special and make it something like personal, like maybe some inside jokes between you or whatever.
I can see where you would write in a more florid way or if you were talking about some bad secret shit, you would write in a much more sort of thing.
It depends which kind of bubble you're in because I saw all today when I'm scrolling the news on Twitter today, like just seeing maybe there's an update from Pamboni regarding Epstein and stuff.
I see a lot of Democrats are showing these drawings that Trump did from years ago.
I guess he would auction off a drawing from Trump.
And they're like, look, dude, this proves it.
This is like the same style of drawing that the Wall Street Journal was talking about.
So you have a lot of people that totally believe the WSJ report.
Even Coffee Zilla, if you guys aren't familiar with him, he's like one of the biggest YouTube investigative journalists.
And so again, and if the Wall Street Journal article had just been released separate from all of this, then I think it would be a lot easier for people to look at it and say, this is BS, but it's coming on the heels of some of them.
Well, I assume, obviously, that they don't have it.
And reading the article, to me, what it sounded like is, of course, someone or it sounds like several people they're claiming who have seen this.
And it was in the custody of the Department of Justice.
And so at least that's the claim.
And so I assume that the Wall Street Journal at least is claiming that they have some sources on the inside, maybe in the Justice Department, who've seen it and who can relate what is in it.
You know, this talk of normies, I know they exist, but I think there's a lot less now after COVID and lockdowns when everyone saw the government turn against them and mothers widespread across the country saw their children literally attacked by the government, forced vaccinations, and people started waking up to the fact that, wait, this thing I've been buying into hates me, hates my children, and I have to, that's why RFK Jr. was so popular.
And then through that, you see a ton of people saying like, now they're looking into conspiracies, right?
And these things we know our government's depraved.
So I don't think a lot of, I think a lot less people are like, I think a lot more people are open to the fact that our government is completely out of control and depraved and willing to do anything to hurt you to maintain power.
And I think like the COVID era was a catalyst for like, the more people that get social media and smartphones in their pocket, the more I think people are given so much information that it kind of forces you to critically think.
Well, and it's becoming harder too for people, because there is so much information for people, harder than ever to differentiate what's legit and what's not.
For instance, I don't want to take this on a tangent here, but as someone who followed the Diddy saga closely, I'm amazed at how, and I believe that that was a legit trial.
And again, I don't think there was a big conspiracy there.
I'm amazed at how many people will say to me, though, yeah, but you had all of those celebrities going to those freak offs.
No, there were no celebrities who went to freak offs.
There have been a number of people who have filed shady lawsuits against Diddy, most of them by that scoundrel sleazebag lawyer, Tony Busby, who have claimed that, oh, yeah, I saw this celebrity here, this celebrity here.
But really, what came out in that trial is really that there's really no there there.
And so my point is just that people are inundated now with so much information that it's very difficult for them to sort out what is just conspiratorial bunk and what is more valid.
But when it comes to whether or not conspiracies are real, that's without a, there's no question about whether or not conspiracies are real.
I think the validity of the information is what's really the important thing, you know, whether or not there's substantially, whether you can find substantiated evidence as opposed to just, oh, I heard this guy talking about this and he said a bunch of other guys said that.
But I do want to bring it back to the topic of the show.
What do you guys think this actually means for MAGA and the Republican Party going forward?
So what I want to say, though, is I think it's fractured people within MAGA, but I think you see a lot of, in my terms, I know there's people online saying the people in my life don't care about Epstein at all.
That's not what I'm experiencing, but look at me and I'm crazy.
I know a lot of crazy people take that into account.
I think there's a lot of people coalescing around the Epstein story because they've always cared about it.
People always hopefully care about children being harmed.
And when you tie that to the government and possible blackmail, that's a very important thing.
So I think I love seeing people coalesce around it online and offline, demanding stuff, even if it's in the face of this theory of like, trust the plan, bro.
Trump's doing some 5D chess, which I don't really think.
But if he does, I'd rather not be a political pawn.
And I'm not denying that, but I'm just saying that politicians can complain as much as they, or commentators can bemoan as much as they want to the fact that this is at the moment overshadowing Trump's games.
But that is the game.
And Trump, by the way, you know, he initially got into politics by trying to prove that Barack Obama was not born in the United States.
So he's not really one to tell us what we should be interested in.
What do you think it means for MAGA and for the Republican Party moving forward?
We can talk about all the mistakes that were made.
And we've talked about that for an hour and it's been covered ad nauseum by about every podcast in the past six months or whatever.
What do you guys think this means for MAGA?
Do you think that this is a coalition-breaking issue?
Or do you think that at the end of the day, people are going to say, well, he did do all these things that I do like.
I don't like this.
And the options are the Democrats.
Do you think that people will stay home in the midterms?
And now, keep in mind, the midterms are, you know, there's a significantly lower turnout.
And the people that go to the midterms are more politically plugged in than the average person.
So, you know, for lack of a better term, the normies generally stay home in the midterms.
Or do you think that this is something where people will say, oh, even though it's bad and I don't like this, I'm still going to go out and vote for things that I think are actually better for me?
Because at the end of the day, if you're MAGA, the policies that the Republicans are talking about are going to have a better effect on your life than the policies the Democrats.
I mean, I personally, although I champion those wins from Trump, I feel like a lot of the joy has been superficial.
I think people are suffering in this country.
People are not having, their paychecks are still being robbed.
These taxes are coming out.
The groceries are so expensive.
Gas is so expensive.
So if the economy does get better, I'm sure they'll go out to vote in the midterms.
I do see a lot of, I don't say nihilism, apathy amongst voters, you know, and they're not really getting the wins.
I mean, we're out here in the panhandle.
I know a lot of people who were fired by Doge, who were Trump voters, and they don't understand why they fired.
And it's hard because I'm like, I wanted Doge to destroy the government.
But I also have sympathy for people who don't understand why they lost their jobs and are replaced by AI that was made by a guy, you know, who don't get me started on Elon.
You know, like, so that's, that's tough.
I also think the left is activated now more than they've been in a while in their hatred for Trump, like always, right?
So you're going to have to watch out for that.
I think it would be MAGA exists beyond just Trump and the people who just worship Trump like cat turd.
But like, I thought he was ghostwriting a lot of Trump's truth social posts recently.
But I think if Trump fails on the Epstein stuff, that is a big loss in my opinion, despite the wins because of how I feel about the importance of the Epstein story within our government and the world.
And it would be an indictment on Trump not being the wrecking ball that I think a lot of people voted for.
And there's an anecdote in there, which is actually based, in fact, where Nixon would go to the Lincoln Memorial in the middle of the night to talk to protesters.
And there's this great scene, you probably know it, where he's talking to one of the girls, female protesters, and she says, and he basically says, I'm trying to tame the system.
I'm trying to make it do some good.
And she's like, you can't control it, can you?
And he has this epiphany, and he's like, she was right, you know?
And I want to say one other thing, too, that I think is also going on right now with this anger from MAGA at Trump.
I think that there are a number of Trump supporters, MA people, who have gotten tired of over the years being told that they are just mindless followers in a cult.
And I think that consciously or unconsciously, this is offering people the opportunity to say, see, I'm not in a cult.
I'm not blindly obedient.
I have a problem with this Epstein stuff.
And I see people online who seem to be, and I'm not saying this is wrong, it's understandable, seem to be reveling in the opportunity to take a stand against Trump to show.
I just think that's a side benefit of it in a way that people may not be aware of.
I don't think people are going to switch votes, right?
Like, I don't think there's going to be a mass exodus from the Republicans now back to the left.
I think you saw a lot of an exodus from the left to the right, and now they might not feel so good about it, whether it's the economy not doing as well despite what they say.
I mean, the economy might be doing better.
The tariffs didn't destroy the economy like they said they're going to on the left, but people are suffering.
I do say if there's some kind of new coalition, like not a MAGA, but like what Elon's floating and Andrew Yang's interested, you're going to get those like moderate kind of...
I think it would split MAGA, and I think Democrats probably would stay home.
And I think that because there is such a controversial tabloid appeal to this, that just in a very human sense, rational or not, it really gets people.
I think this could become, right?
It's still early days.
I think this could become bigger if it's not handled properly.
Because I feel like for it to get bigger, new information has to come out or new information has to come out that the administration denies.
If there's no new developments beyond, I mean, the Wall Street Journal thing that came out yesterday that was supposed to be like, oh, this is going to be a big thing.
This is going to be an issue.
It was such an prior to it actually being released, the rumor was that it was such a big issue that Trump himself called the Wall Street Journal and actually gave a statement to him, talked to him.
I think a lot of people do care about it, but a lot of people will also not change their vote because of it.
But I think there's a large group of people who are disenfranchised with MAGA right now.
And there are people who came over from Maha, not happy with a lot of the FDA stuff that's been coming out recently, which is completely contradictory to what RFK Jr. ran on and his books, you know, the six-month-old stuff.
It's not good.
You know, I think that's not very, very, very bad.
And so I see that's a big coalition, you know, those moms.
And by the way, there are a number of people who have supported Trump or consider themselves MAGA or maybe peripherally MAGA, who can be peeled away from this, at least in terms of their enthusiasm.
I mean, I would count myself in this category.
I supported Trump in all three elections that he ran in.
And I feel like this, I'm so disgusted right now with the way that he is condescending to, and I feel gaslighting his people and calling us weaklings that I would be inclined to just kind of be apathetic next election.
How many people, man, I personally think the people that care about Epstein, I think a large percentage of them, no matter what the government releases, it's not going to be enough because it doesn't confirm their bias.
It won't be enough for it.
Well, there you go.
So that's the point.
How much does it matter for what they release, considering what we kind of all agree to, that no matter what comes out, unless it confirms people's bias, how much does it matter that they're doing this?
Because Trump said, he's like, you know, you won't let this die.
I'm saying earlier on, if the messaging had been good or consistent or not condescending or whatever you want to say, then I and others would have, I think, been a lot more willing to let this go.
But what this has done is like picking off a scab or stoking a fire so that now moving forward.
Yeah, I think he's almost kind of, I think he's in danger actually of what I call a PR death spiral, where maybe there's nothing that's going to, that's going to fix this, but he could certainly, he could certainly change his tone.
Well, they already believe, like people that believe that, the people that believe that it's about, you know, people that believe that it's about pedophiles or people that believe that it's about Israel.
I mean, no matter what comes out, there is verifiable stuff out there about why is a former prime minister of Israel, Ehud Barak, going into his mansion in 2016.
So again, this is not, but why would anyone, would you ever go to someone's house after they've been convicted for what they did?
My point is, people that believe these things believed them before Trump got into office.
They believe, again, these are the same people that believe Cash and Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi and Donald Trump are going to get in and show them all the stuff.
And show them all the stuff meant give me the confirmation of the things that I already believe.
And so now any more information that comes out, I don't think that they're going to say, oh, this I believe.
Well, yeah, I don't think people should have believed anything that came out, especially like after the binder situation.
You know, I'm one of those people who's going to be skeptical of anything they release because what I was saying earlier, it's been through so many hands.
Who knows how it's been modified or completely changed?
I think we need something bigger.
I think we need some sort of trials.
I think we need people to be on the stand talking and interviewed almost like a Nuremberg, but for everyone connected to him, I don't care if they're innocent or not.
I don't, honestly, it's going to, I mean, it's going to have to depend.
We'll see.
Bill Gates, I mean, I could arrest him for trying to kill the son, but in terms of Jeffrey Epstein, it's going to be tough, you know, because you're like, why are you with these people?
And you're going to say, well, they can be whoever they want.
Yeah, I'll just say, like, yeah, you have to because you're never going to get the full truth, you know?
And we can't trust any institution to give us the full truth.
But the more they can do to at least try to be better at being transparent and let us be the judge, that's all I ask for because you have to be skeptical of everything they're telling you because they've been lying to us our whole lives.
You know, I'm not going to trust Cash and Dan because they just do podcasts.
You know, even if I knew that, I don't know them, but like I'm not just going to blindly trust them.
Not because maybe they are lying to me and they know it, but maybe they've just been lied to, like what I was saying with Trump.
So yeah, you kind of do have to poison the waters, but you also have to demand more transparency.
And there's a whole bunch of people like Ghelane or Barr and I would love to see on trial, not trial, but on the stand, just questioned, grilled about all their connections.
Yeah, and I want to go back to something that you said just a minute ago.
You said, if you have all of these people who already believed that there was something nefarious going on with Epstein and they thought that Trump's people were going to get in and take care of it, aren't they going to now continue with that bias?
Basically, nothing's going to be good enough for them.
Yes, you have those people, but you also have people like me who did not really give a shit about the Epstein story.
I mean, yeah, bad guy, whatever.
I didn't care, but now my ears have been perked up just by the mishandling of it.
And so I think people like me could be placated if the approach were changed.
But there are also a lot of people like me and people I've talked to who are not so politically invested who did not care much about Epstein, but now have been, their ire and their curiosity has been aroused.
And so I do think that there's a whole other layer on top of this.
And look, again, we can't act like the messaging on this has just been inadequate.
I mean, I feel like it's like that scene in Apocalypse Now, to quote my favorite movie, when you've got Martin Sheen sitting there in front of Kurtz, and Kurt says to him, do you find my methods unsound?
And Martin Sheen says, I don't see any method at all, sir.
I mean, people certainly have their confirmation bias, and I understand why.
And I also think, like I was saying earlier about this being an indictment on journalism as a whole, because for what, to your point, it's hard to even write about this.
There's so many moving parts if you want to go down a Robert Maxwell path.
What happened with the promise scandal, the octopus murders, which happened in Martinsburg, West Virginia.
Really?
Which is about a journalist was looking into the promise scandal, which is about the stolen spyware when Robert Maxwell is a part of that Mossad U.S. and all this stuff.
And this journalist was starting to connect the dots and was meeting with a source in Martinsburg.
And the journalist was saying, you know, this is, he was calling it the octopus.
It's a many tentacled thing, right?
With all these, you know, which I like, it goes to Kurt's, what she was saying about Nixon talking about this wild animal, right?
I mean, that's what's going on, I think, behind the curtain of our reality.
And the journalist was found with his arms just slid up real bad.
They ruled it as a suicide, but it was just, it was really bizarre.
So it's hard to condense it into a story that makes sense.
And I think a lot of people also have an issue willing to accept just how evil people are.
Like when I wrote that story about catching those pedophiles with Alex Rosen right in Ohio, that was the most evil stuff I had seen like right in front of me.
Like these guys were straight up demons who were going to go find, you know, they thought they were going to meet an 11-year-old girl.
Right.
And, you know, people were like, I appreciate you writing this story, but I just can't read it.
And I totally understood because it's like, it's torture.
Like listening to them talk was literal torture.
And we could have done that in Ohio for three days nonstop.
There were so many people on the, on that, Alex's list to take care of.
Sortaria, Operation, I think it's Sortaria and Operation Dragon Eye.
Those just happened early this year, maybe like last month.
Hundreds of kids saved, hundreds of pedophiles arrested.
Amazing.
You know, this is in Texas, I believe, in Florida.
It's so prevalent amongst, I think, every level of our society.
That's why I think it's prevalent up top.
It's prevalent down below.
Like those people we're in Ohio catching just monsters at 7-Eleven, but they're politicians as well.
We know they're in colleges.
They find their way in churches.
This is an evil thing, this urge that they need to satisfy this bloodlust with, this need to destroy innocence.
So it's really hard to be written about and it's really hard to understand.
And that's why the people who are so-called normies, I think they have a hard time really wrapping their heads around all of this and all the conspiratorial stuff that I like to get into.
That's kind of like just the minutiae of it.
But there's hard evidence of stuff you can talk to.
It's just a matter of figuring out how to condense it into something that's palatable.
They're just lying and they have to admit that they're lying or you guys are telling the truth.
There's nothing to see here with Epstein.
But you guys have such disconnect and the administration is so dysfunctional where you've got the head of FBI saying one thing and then Pam Bondi saying the opposite.
There needs to be change.
I'm not like, I am not okay with this.
If this truly is just like a messaging disaster internally, people aren't talking to each other, communications breaking down.
I'm not okay with those people remaining in those positions.
The point that I'm making is this particular issue has been terribly messaged.
But if from the administration's perspective, they're like, we've done all this other stuff that's been great and all these other things that have fallen right in line with the way we want.
And all these other things that we promised have happened.
This one isn't working out the way we wanted.
Should we fire people who've done great in other ways?
I heard you're going to have to just buy into my idea of how Epstein is part of the deep state for this to matter because that's just how I see this.
But Trump campaigning on taking down the deep state does matter and it undoes his wins, in my opinion, because you're then just allowing this machine to keep going.
And this is the machine that tried destroying Trump violently and with lawfare.
And that machine is against us, right?
That's what he was campaigning with that meme.
They're not after me.
They're after you.
I'm just in the way.
Right.
But now it's become, it's not me, it's you.
Right.
And it's like, wait, this is, we've all been on this train with the, we're trying to obliterate this.
The pattern of this country has been that they lie to us and they hurt us at every possible turn that they can, whether it's your children or but are Dan Bongino, Cash Patel, Donald Trump, and Pam Bondi, are those four people part of they?
Is there a future for MAGA if they are part of quote-unquote since people are unwilling to accept just how evil it is in the way I see it, they will continue to vote MAGA-ish, but maybe give up on Trump.
Well, Trump, I mean, he can't do much else now unless he does that third term, which I don't think he has.
We're in it right now.
But like, I don't think people widespread in this country are going to give up their votes because they do believe in MAGA.
Me personally, it is super disenfranchising, although I've been disenfranchised forever with the government and how they treat us.
But I was holding out a little bit of hope for Trump to do what he was saying he was going to do, considering how horrible they attacked him all this time with all the lies.
Obama spied on him, right?
Like, it is insane.
Spying on his campaign, the lawfare, the violence, throwing his lawyers in jail.
I mean, this has to stop.
And if he's out, and then the left is that activated again, which I think they are, and they get back in, then they just have the reins to the machine again.
And then it's us all alone once again.
Uh, so it's why this is important to me because Epstein is just a facet of the deep state that must be destroyed or exposed.
Like, I want to drag the demons into the daylight.
I know it's a tall ask because there's so many, but look at where we are.
We're watching, we're watching him get shot at in Butler, all these assassination attempts.
This doesn't stop.
American, political violence is an American tradition that's been going on since the beginning, and it doesn't stop.
And it's always shrouded in lies.
Like, we still don't.
I just had a guy on the show.
The Zapruder film, the Zapruder film is, I think, a fake, right?
Like, you can look into that and how the CI manages the Zapruder film.
There's so many things we don't know about.
And like, they, it's this pretend transparency that they all leak out, but it's not because they, like what Epsom was doing and like other people like him, they handle, they're handlers to the narrative, they're handlers to extreme power, and they're part, and they're complicit in destroying this country and feeding off of our suffering.
Unfortunately, it's gotten that bad that if someone's not removed or they don't pin the blame at the very least on someone for this messaging disaster, because they're never going to admit that they lied to us, which I think is the likely thing.
Well, you say they can't admit that they've lied to us.
Could they admit that the reason that their messaging has been bad is because there were truths that they felt like they did not have to tell us, and now they see that they have to?
Like, could Trump come out and say, well, look, we were trying to hold this intelligence operation together or do this or this or this or whatever, protect innocent people.
But now I see that the American people, they demand more extensive answers, so we're going to give you more.
To your point, you talk about they need a scapegoat.
I don't think the scapegoat, I don't think that there is any scapegoat that will satisfy because Epstein himself was supposed to be the architect of all this stuff, and he's dead, and Gilane is in prison now.
What was with the recent, I mean, there was the recent FBI disclosure, right, that or was it Justice Department that prior to this whole controversy that there were a thousand victims?
So they say, you know, and then they, and then this is where it gets all crazy because, you know, someone like Virginia Guffray, who just died, she said that Ehud Barak abused her.
Megan Kelly is one who's pointed this out, is that Virginia Duffray and a number of the other accusers have lied about some things where it's been demonstrated at least that they were dishonest.
And this was something that Dershowitz pointed out as well when he said that there were files that had not been released.
And it turns out he was talking about evidence of the duplicity of the accusers.
Well, not just the lack of transparency, but as long as someone can say this and this, and there's space in between, and that is where I'm going to fill in my information, right?
But I think that's the normalcy bias we should have, honestly, because that's the way this country operates in terms of the way they brainstorm all these ridiculous operations, whether it's mind control.
I mean, this is all documented stuff.
So if you have a normalcy bias, your normalcy bias should be rooted in the fact that they are constantly plotting against us.
Operation C-Spray, biowarfare, you know, the MKUltra stuff, Charles Manson's ties to CIA.
This is just the norm.
So like people got mad at me on Monday when Tim asked, you know, would you do it if it meant communism would happen, which is, you know, a crazy hypothetical.
Tim asked me on Monday night on IRL, would you like expose everything with Epstein, even if that like destabilized the entire country and led to communism?
To which my reply is to a lot of these angry messages I got, the country's already destabilized.
We're already living under violent tyrants.
It's just modern barbarism, and it doesn't look like what you think of as a pole pot, which we did fund, Carter-funded pole pot.
Cuomo threw sick people with the flu into nursing homes.
Tens of thousands of people died.
Small businesses totally destroyed.
So that's what I'm saying.
But I do think that there was a connection between Epstein dying.
That was like when Epstein went to jail, we were all united for a brief amount of time with the joke of, well, Clinton's going to get him.
That was the thing on Twitter.
Someone keep him alive.
Right.
And then sure enough, he quote unquote killed himself.
But I personally think that this stuff is a deep ancient evil that operates around the whole world.
And COVID was a way to get back at Trump and to put everything back in the bottle.
And everyone was sent home.
You couldn't work.
You were forced to do certain things you shouldn't have to do to your body to keep your job, especially if you were a cop or ER, you know, working in emergency rooms, hospitals, doctors, soldiers.
That's, you know, in my crazy opinion, but I'm just, I'm just an insane person.
But just because people weren't worried about it years ago doesn't mean it wasn't happening, you know?
And I think now we are more attuned to it.
But you also have to be very aware of being manipulated by people who want you to go deeper and crazier.
You know, as someone who is borderline insane, like I do have to worry about like everything that might confirm whatever biases I might have.
And I, you know, you'll see it, whether it's on podcasts, mainstream news, there's little narratives that are seated in there that I think are putting out.
We know about Operation Mockingbird.
We know the government tries to manipulate the news.
And it's not just ours.
You could look up Yuri Bezmanov talking about how you destabilize an entire nation.
I mean, I don't know why, because I think our universities are completely controlled by Marxists.
Their idea, I guess, would be what the Marxist dream is, to turn it into their idea of a paradise, a utopia, totally a heaven on earth.
It's anti-God.
So that is probably part of it.
But in my opinion, we are living in a weird post-World II era where we hired Operation Paperclip Nazis, and then they ran our government and created NASA.
And then we filled the universities with Marxists.
And I think part of what's going on with the Epstein, with the Fuhrer over this, is that even if people don't have an allegiance to, say, all the conspiracy theories that maybe Shane does, no offense, there still is just a pervasive feeling that there's so much more going on in the world and in our government and so much more evil than we perceive.
And so all it takes then is something like this where our leaders start behaving in a way that seems completely illogical.
It's like, what is Trump doing?
Why is he attacking his base, et cetera, to then make people think, well, maybe there is something to this idea that there's an evil web of connections.
So I'm just asking, does he think that Trump's failure here is PR failure, failure of managing this Is stemming from a place of that Trump is actually implicated in having sex with minors.
Society will go on to, this is something I went on Megan McCain's show a week ago and she said, people are saying there's this idea that if we released the list or the evidence of people who are implicated, then there would be mass hysteria because so many people would be implicated.
There's not going to be mass hysteria.
That's like a kind of a narcissistic cop-out.
You're arguing with a narcissist and they're like, don't get mad or anything.
People know that there are aliens visiting our planet.
The point that I'm making is like everybody, there's so many people that have so many things to say about Bill Gates and people in positions of power, but they're still buying Microsoft stuff.
They're still living their lives because the most important thing to people are their own lives.
And whereas they'll go ahead and watch this stuff and they'll watch the show and they'll say, look, this matters to me.
And they'll jump in the chat and they'll be all kinds of vocal and stuff.
At the end of the day, this is why I think that the economy is what is the most important thing when it comes to voting.
At the end of the day, the things that affect people's wallets, their immediate family and their lives are the things that motivate them to actually go and vote.
I think the short-term consequences will get the people voting.
But my worry is the long-term consequences of this invisible, sinister network running the country and my children and their children inheriting that world.
But then on top of that, which is I don't believe in black pills, but I do think you get rid of.
But on this fallen planet, you get rid of Epstein and whoever's controlling him, it's like a Pez dispenser.
Another one's going to pop up.
But that's why I think these are white pills to understand how nefarious all of this is.
And I'm not going to change the world or defeat it.
But I think everyone talking about it does help because these people go to great lengths to shut you up.
The people who investigate these things, whether it's Maxwell himself implicated with the promise scandal, Epstein, whatever happened with him, the people looking into something like the Franklin scandal, which was a horrible thing with children, they will come after you.
And I think that, I think no matter what Donald Trump and the administration release, people are not going to like it and they're going to be upset when it comes to the committed people that already believe.
And I think that this whole conversation, all of the stuff we're talking about, people have their opinion they believe, whatever it may be.
And that is not going to change no matter what the administration says, no matter how Donald.
And this is not to say that the administration has handled this well because I think they've blown it as badly as they possibly could.
This is the worst handled topic that they have throughout both of his presidencies, right?
So his first Administration and second.
This is the worst they've performed.
And I think that, but even in spite of that, with that taken into account, people are not going to be satisfied because the two things that they, the two things that animate people the most are the idea that Israel controls the United States and Epstein is the key to that.
And then that Epstein was a child trafficker and he's hurt children and there are other people involved that hurt children.
Those two things animate people more than most other topics.
And also again, like it's not a, it's, it's not a homogenous group of people that have an issue right now with the way Trump, the administration, is handling this.
Yes, there are some people who are super energized on the Israel stuff and all that.
I'm not one of those.
But there are also, I think a lot of people like me who, again, are not super invested in some of these narratives, but who have just found Trump's behavior and his administration's behavior and their PR so inexplicable and so obnoxious that we're riled up.
I think that I could be pacified if the PR strategy changed.
I really do.
If Trump were to come out and do like a full court press conference and he had Bondi and Patel and Kat and Bongino standing up there with him and he got real with the American people and dropped the snark and the anger and the condescension, I do think it could have an effect.
Get rid of the Federal Reserve and all those things go away.
All the things.
Everybody talks about like get rid of this administration or this organization, this bureaucracy, that bureaucracy, get rid of the Fed and they all go away.
Epstein doesn't, to the average person that's not politically, you know, politically involved and not even just politically involved, remember, because like this kind of stuff is kind of a niche thing.
But the average person, it doesn't matter.
Most people that watch, you know, that are, they would consider themselves normies that are into normal politics, this is a tertiary topic to them.
And for the very, very emotionally invested and committed minority, it's something that they're probably never going to be.
I think I agree with you about how it's not, it might not change people's votes, but I disagree that people, even normies, however you want to define that, care deeply about it, even on a surface level, even though they don't know anything beyond the story of Epstein being in jail for trafficking or Ghalain being in jail for trafficking as well.
I think they're like, this is emblematic of something that's horrible.
I mean, so many people have been abused as a child.
You know, this is something that unfortunately a ton of people can relate to.
You were talking about just hundreds of children rescued just like in the past few months.
And that's just two operations.
I think people see Epstein as some sort of face to something much bigger.
Not in maybe the sense I'm talking about big, like the deep state invisible network of things.
The other thing, too, is that it also, maybe it has less of an effect on the faithful, so to speak, or the MAGA, but there are also a lot of moderates who take, to some degree, I think, take cues from MAGA.
In other words, like, well, look, even now Trump's people are thinking he's corrupt.
Even Trump's fans are turning on him.
There must be something here.
And so I have friends who are not Republicans.
They're not conservatives.
They're not right-wingers.
They're not Trump supporters.
But they could perhaps be induced to vote for him if they, you know, if the alternative was not to their taste.
But they're looking at this and they're like, wow, even his base is turning on him.
His base thinks that he might have had sex with minors and stuff.
A friend of mine just texts me and his name, we'll keep his name out of this, but he straight up said, I honestly can tell you that if I asked my brother who Jeffrey Epstein was, he would look at me with a deer and a headless look.
I have so many different experiences, and I know I talk to a lot of different types of people, but like I do have normal people in my life who I don't talk who about the moon or other things that certainly cares.
But I would say that it is a highly charged signifier, and it's becoming increasingly so for a larger idea of corruption, of our leaders and the elite being held to different standards than we are and of all these things.
And it's just going to become more and more highly charged until I feel like Trump tries to deal with this.
And the reason I think that he can is because just of confirmation by and I think that perhaps maybe he could have diffused it, like I said, better if he had tackled this or had a better approach early on.
I want to know, when you mentioned Lex Wesner, I want more people to look into where Epstein was getting his money, where the money, why was he a billionaire?
So I was going to say in this bio that I read in Vanity Fair from 2003 or whatever, it got into this.
And apparently, now this could just be propaganda, but apparently, originally Epstein made his money by performing a service for billionaires where he specialized in getting the billionaire's financial house in order.
In other words, what he says in this article is that as people acquire more wealth, they tend to do it in a sort of disorganized fashion.
It's like you start off with a small house and then you keep adding on to it and you've got all this like kind of random stuff here and there.
And so he specialized in sort of taking all of the disparate aspects of a billionaire's financial matrix and sort of bringing it into line.
