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May 16, 2023 - The Charlie Kirk Show
33:30
Rejecting the "Spirit of Timidity" with Eric Metaxas
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Kick Wokeism Out of the Church 00:03:58
Hey everybody, Tana Charlie Kirk Show.
Eric Metaxas joins us as we preview our TPUSA Faith Pastors Summit coming up next week.
If you are a pastor or you know a pastor, please lovingly encourage them to attend our pastors summit next week.
They can do that at tpfaith.com and find all the information there.
Just click on the events tab that is tpfaith.com.
Over 1,000 pastors and church leaders will be there.
Some of the biggest speakers in the entire movement, Eric Metaxas, joins us to talk about this issue and more throughout the hour.
Email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.
Buckle up everybody here.
We go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
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Okay, we have a pastor summit coming up, and you guys can get your tickets at tpfaith.com if you are a pastor or in senior leadership of a church.
Amazing lineup of speakers.
You guys could check it out.
And this is not your typical pastor summit.
Look, the mission statement of TPSA Faith, not the mission statement, the immediate goal.
Let me put it this way.
The immediate goal is to kick wokeism out of the American church.
Wokeism has no place in American Christianity.
It's rooted in subjectivism.
It is going to destroy biblical inerrancy, the belief in biblical inerrancy.
And it's growing.
It's metastasizing.
That tumor is taking over the church far too quickly.
And we have some of the best speakers to help address that, as well as some of the other issues of the day.
We have Mark Meadows, Jensen Franklin, Dave Ramsey.
We have Michael O'Fallon, James Lindsay, Rick Green, Chad Connolly, Pastor John Amanchukwu.
So it's tpfaith.com.
That's tpfaith.com.
Eric Metaxas.
Really looking forward to that.
It's going to be incredible.
So let me play some tape here of some other stories that are connected here.
Let's go to cut eight.
Joe Biden says the greatest threat to America and our homeland is white supremacy.
Play cut eight.
Stand up against the poison of white supremacy as I did my inaugural address to single out as the most dangerous terrorist threat to our homeland is white supremacy.
And I'm not saying this because I'm not a black HBCU.
I say it wherever I go.
Are there other types of HBCUs?
Are there white HBCUs or Hispanic HBCUs?
I'm just being a little mean.
Being mean to a dementia man.
Is white supremacy the greatest threat to the country?
You see, this is typical white liberal talk.
White liberals actually do believe themselves to be supreme.
Look, I don't like bigotry.
You don't like bigotry.
That's why we stand against black-only dormitories.
Joe Biden's in favor of black-only dormitories.
We don't believe in black-only graduation ceremonies.
Columbia University is.
You see, here's an interesting question to mull over.
What is a greater threat to black America?
Dads not raising their kids or white supremacy?
What is a greater threat to black America?
Gang violence or white supremacy?
White Supremacy vs Gang Violence 00:07:41
Well, the church should be speaking morally clear on this issue.
Unfortunately, it's not.
And joining us now is Eric Metaxas, very serious, important man.
His Excellency, welcome to the program.
Just a joy to be with you, Charlie.
Anytime you know that.
We have fun, but we're talking about the most serious things imaginable, which is maybe why we have to joke around for mental health.
It's coping, Eric.
And next time, put on a tie.
All right.
It would be much appreciated.
So I can't believe that.
Can you tell me that I'm wearing a wig?
Go ahead.
Is that I thought it was just a piece.
So, the question I have: we're basically looming on the edge of the apocalypse.
And I'm not exaggerating.
Where's the church, Eric?
You wrote the most beautiful book.
People are coming up to me all the time and they're saying, Letter to the American.
I'm not just saying this, Eric.
You know, I wouldn't buttered you up unless it was true.
People are saying it changed their life.
Literally, it's the most important book.
Just remind our audience about the book.
And look, talk about our pastor summit.
We got a big deal coming next week.
We're going to do something about it, Eric.
Well, listen, this is something, this is tough stuff.
Okay.
You're way younger than I am, but I'm just here to say part of the reason the church is not waking up or is waking up very, very slowly is because most people have never lived through anything like this.
Most American Christians have never had to deal with what we call evil, satanic evil.
And we want to pretend it's not happening.
We want to pretend like, oh, it's just a bad patch and we'll get back to normal.
Historically, that's garbage.
Historically, satanic evil rules and reigns at periods.
Okay.
When the death camps existed in Germany.
Now, any American Christian who wants to bracket that and say, well, that was unique.
That was like a weird thing.
That can't happen here.
That's theologically preposterous.
You have as much evil in you, and we have as much evil in America as Germany did during that period.
Jesus is the answer today and was then.
They had the excuse that the Holocaust had never happened and they never thought things could get that bad.
We don't have that excuse.
But the fact of the matter is, Charlie, no kidding, most people cannot process, and I get that because it's been hard for me to process how evil things are.
Many people just look away.
Many people have coping mechanisms.
But the fact of the matter is, the reason I wrote the book, Letter to the American Church, and I can't take credit.
I say this as earnestly as I can.
God led me to write this.
I don't go and won't go into details now, but I can just say bluntly, I believe this is God's message of mercy to his church at a time when we sort of don't deserve it.
He's giving us a warning and a clear path.
It's really the same thing Bonhoeffer was trying to say to the German church in the 30s.
They similarly refused to hear it.
They thought, no, no, no, you know what?
Everything's fine.
The pendulum swings back and forth.
But if you're clear-minded, as you are, and as I am, and as many others are, you see on every front, not one or two things, on many fronts, a level of lunacy, insanity, wickedness, evil, corruption we have never seen before.
And if the church, if those who dare to call themselves Christians do not stand up and speak up and self-sacrificially act in a way that pushes against this, that speaks against this, that says, no, we will not have this.
If Christians don't do that, we slide into the abyss.
And many people just need to be convinced, yes, we're sliding to that abyss.
And by the way, it will be because of your inaction.
God will hold you responsible for saying nothing, for doing nothing, for attending a church that pretends like none of this is happening, for attending a church that's more worried about being divisive than about speaking truth.
Yeah.
So, Eric, you're going to have to help me with this one.
Someone who I really respect, who is one of the most just committed Christians, who totally agrees with us, and he's speaking out.
He's amazing.
Okay.
But he said, Charlie, I want you to pray about this, not to call the people that are not speaking out cowards.
Use a different word.
I mean, do you think it matters?
Do you think that because I'm torn on it, right?
And I really respect this man.
He came from, he's just, he said it out of a spirit of we're trying to win these people over, not turn them off.
Listen, um, even when someone is a coward, uh, sometimes it's not the thing to do to call them a coward.
Let's just say that all of that is not relevant in a way.
What we're talking about, I mean, I guess it can be unhelpful, but I just want to say that if somebody is, let's say somebody is simply being fearful, let's say somebody is being what they consider prudent, they think they're being prudent.
So let's just say what you're doing is not God's will.
So, okay, we don't need to throw the term around coward.
I mean, some people, um, you know, people rarely realize they're being cowards.
No, no, I say it all the time.
I'm just trying to look at it.
Is there a way I, because here's why I am failing in one regard.
I'm not able to reach these wokey people in the middle that are kind of wishy-washy.
I'm trying to figure out because, Eric, what we are doing really good at TPSA Faith is find the people that are a little open, curious.
We're winning that.
The people that we need, though, Eric, to get the Bonhoeffer Brigade, you and I both agree, right?
Is that next notch up, right?
Forget, forget the, you know, the Carl Lentzes or whatever, or the Judas Smith and Levi Lusko, waste of time, right?
But how about Greg Lori, right?
Why is he not speaking out?
And I'm willing to change, you know, vocabulary, diction, you know, tone, but I'm not obviously going to compromise on truth.
And that's what I, because I just, I lose patience, Eric.
I'm like, you're a coward at this point.
If you don't speak out, maybe I'm, maybe I'm hurting the cause by speaking that definitively.
I don't know about you, but it takes a lot to shock me these days.
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Sorry, Eric, I talked a lot.
I mean, look, I love Greg Laurie.
I love some of these guys, but I think there's another notch that they could engage.
Do you agree, Eric?
Is that fair?
Let me put it this way.
Let me put it this way.
I adore Greg Lori.
He's a dear friend.
But I think the reason I wrote the book Letter to the American Church, honestly, is to reach those people who are unclear, right?
Pastors Silenced by Political Fear 00:04:09
In other words, we're not talking about the cowards.
We're not talking about the woke people that are that couldn't care less about America, that couldn't care less about anything except, you know, building their brand.
We're not talking about those people.
We're talking about the good folks in the middle who maybe need a little push, need a little inspiration, need a little biblical explication of why it's necessary for the church to address these issues because you're not hearing a lot of that.
Another book just came out from some pastor in Tennessee, basically saying division is bad and we hate division.
And I think to myself, listen, when chattel slavery was on the ballot, There were people who said, oh, that's not a gospel issue.
We don't want to, we just care about evangelism.
What about the black people who were enslaved?
Did you think about them?
How is that not a moral issue?
But there were people in that day.
I just read a whole book about Lincoln and this whole issue.
They would say, well, we just, that's not theological.
We just want to stick to theology.
That is nonsense.
That is the devil.
John C. Calhoun, who is a Southern Democrat, actually wrote extensively of a biblical case for slavery.
Well, that's a whole other thing.
All I'm saying is that most people who knew that it was morally wrong nonetheless felt like it's out of bounds.
I mean, look, you could talk about this on almost any issue, but the point is what they're doing to young people right now in our public schools, confusing them about sexuality, about that is satanic.
It is horrifying.
If the church isn't the loudest voice against this, do we think the Lord will not hold us responsible?
We're supposed to know that he defeated death on the cross.
His word says there's male and female.
But Christians have adopted the spirit of timidity.
A lot of times we say being nice.
And Bonhoeffer was angry about this.
And Bonhoeffer says, and I'm sure I say it in my book, he says, this is theological fussiness.
It's just fear.
It's fear.
Let's call it what it is.
It's fear.
And you're hiding behind some theological pseudo-doctrines and saying that that's not, it's not a gospel-related issue.
And I've good friends who are Democrats.
Why do we have to go there?
Why can't we call out evil evil?
Where there's corruption in government?
I don't care if it's Hunter Biden and Joe Biden or someone else.
The point is we are supposed to call out corruption.
We're supposed to call out when the news media doesn't do its job and report on the facts.
We're supposed to be doing that.
And a lot of people in the church have acted like, well, I don't want to take political sides.
And I'm thinking, sorry, you have taken a side.
Evil is happening.
It is coming.
It is here.
And if you are not a voice of clarity in the midst of it, you have abdicated your role.
That's the role of the church.
And you're right.
We're going to be talking about this in Nashville at the pastors summit.
I'm excited, Charlie, that you're taking this on because this is a lie that we are supposed to not be political.
It is utterly preposterous.
I mean, imagine if Stalin or Hitler were running for office and somebody said, well, you can't say anything about that from the pulpit.
Well, they did.
You might lose your Bible C3 status.
By the way, for all of you wondering at home, those are sirens in the background of probably another mugging or shooting in New York City.
Stay safe, Eric.
So, but they did say that.
The most quoted verse in Nazi Germany was Romans 13.
Time and time and time again.
And so doesn't this then get to then a pattern?
And pattern recognition is important.
And you've done a beautiful job of this, right, Eric?
You recognize a pattern and we want to try to stop the pattern.
Just because you are a pastor, just because you're filled with the spirit, doesn't mean you act with courage against evil.
That's not an automatic.
That's what we've learned, isn't it?
Well, yes.
But to be clear, in Germany in the 30s, Hitler was not Hitler.
In other words, most people were fooled.
They didn't know that the Hitler of 33 or 34 or 35 would become a synonym for evil.
Pattern Recognition Against Evil 00:02:47
They were fooling themselves into thinking it's not that bad.
But what I'm saying is that today, if the person we know who was Adolf Hitler, this evil guy is running for office, there are still pastors who would say, well, I'm not supposed to be political, even though I know that he's really evil.
Politics, it's kind of like, you know, they're hiding behind a shield and I can't shoot at them because I'm just a pastor.
And I think that's not been the role of the church through the millennia, through the centuries.
We are to be involved in everything.
And this American Churchianity lie that we're supposed to play church.
We're supposed to have these intellectual beliefs that don't affect my life, that don't make me want to protect my family, that don't make me want to protect my community from wickedness and lunacy.
That somehow I'm supposed to just avoid all that.
It's just not right.
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Eric, let's just kind of summarize this and then we'll get to another topic here.
Do you feel as if the church is getting more courageous or less courageous over the last year, year and a half?
Well, Romans 8:28, all things work together for good for those that love the Lord and call according to his purposes.
What does it mean?
It means that as things get more and more and more obviously horrible and openly satanic, the good news is that's what it takes to wake up some people who otherwise would continue to sleep forever and have been asleep forever.
When you see things getting this bad, fill in the dots.
I mean, fill in the blanks.
You know what those things are.
Everywhere we look, it's disaster.
It is open evil.
That is finally waking some people up.
Borders and Begging on Streets 00:09:59
And the reason I keep saying that I wrote the book Letter to the American Church is to reason with the person who isn't already there, to say, like, what do you say to this?
Most people who read the book, they get convicted.
They realize, you know what?
I just hadn't heard this.
I live in an America where we don't mix faith in politics and I didn't understand.
I had this like, you know, preposterous inoculation against the idea of it.
And I avoid people like Charlie Gurk and Eric.
I've avoided you because you've gotten too political.
They're completely theologically wrong.
If you can persuade them, wait a minute, can you take another look at this?
Often they're convicted and then they say, what can I do?
And the first thing I say is either give the book to your pastor and say, I want to talk to you about this in two weeks.
And if they are not interested in it, for the love of God, find another church.
Do not continue going to and giving to a church that is looking the other way because you are being complicit in evil.
Globalist, atheist monsters are aggressively trying to take over this nation and the world.
And if you look the other way, if you do nothing, all those who suffer are suffering because of your inaction and your silence.
The church has to understand we have unique responsibility and calling from God.
It ought to be a privilege for us to do something about it.
If you're going to a church that doesn't get that, get out of that church.
Please get out of that church.
Eric, just one more thought on this or question.
Do they talk to you?
Do they pass?
I mean, because you've been around Christianity for a while and you wrote the Bonhoeffer book, which is translated into like 100 languages or something.
And so I imagine you were invited to speak at so many churches that now really won't talk to you.
Do you still talk to them?
I mean, my biggest complaint is that I can't find woke pastors or woke Christians to dialogue with me.
Well, you're the great guy that God made you to dialogue with people like that.
He didn't make me to dialogue with people like that.
I kind of can't bear those conversations.
I really can't.
I can't bear those conversations.
I want to have them.
I want to try to really challenge them lovingly.
Honestly, sometimes, again, Charlie, this is not to push the book, but sometimes I think in the privacy of reading, somebody can save face.
When it's a debate or a dialogue, people are just going to, you know, they're going to argue and they want to win and they don't want to be humiliated.
But in the privacy of reading, sometimes God can get a hold of you and speak to you.
So you go, you know what?
I got to think about this.
You have the room, in a sense, to kind of move the needle a little bit.
And that's what I hope is happening.
People keep saying to me, I've bought 10 copies of this book and I've given it to every pastor in my area.
And I think to myself, if two of those pastors are moved and understand that they have been silent in the face of evil, that's all we need.
We don't need everybody to get it.
But I guess the answer to your question is yes.
I see people waking up.
And I also see non-Christians being attracted to churches where they're talking about this.
So that's the irony is that evangelism increases when you talk about the hot button divisive topic.
And it really is time then you said it, Eric, to just leave these churches if they're not in alignment.
Is it time to just walk away?
Yeah, run.
Well, and also you're giving your money to what?
To the devil?
You're giving, I mean, do you not understand that God is going to hold you accountable for supporting something that should not be supported?
This is like going to a church that is turning a blind eye to the rise of Hitler.
Will God hold you responsible?
Yes, he will, of course, he'll hold you responsible for that.
You know, he's looking to you to do the right thing.
Complicit churches are in league.
They're really unwittingly with the rise of evil.
They really are.
And hopefully we could fix that next week.
I do know for certain, though, Eric, I am told that there are some people coming to our summit, more than a couple, that are not yet bought in, that have yet to speak out from the pulpits, but they're curious.
So let's try to win them over, Eric, next week in Nashville.
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All right, Eric.
I want to play a piece of tape here on New York City, which you should run for mayor, Eric.
That would be great.
Let's play Cut 28.
Law of Sanctuary City was in place long before I became mayor.
I'm following the law.
As a law enforcement person, you know, we follow the law.
We're now in court now, today, asking the judge to revisit this law to deal with this humanitarian crisis.
Because even when they decided to put in place that law, no one thought that they would be dealing with a humanitarian crisis of disproportion.
So, Eric, you know, this is interesting.
There's a lot of news happening in New York, but what's your take as a New Yorker about the flow of the illegals just coming endlessly into New York?
I laugh.
What is there to say?
It's all preposterous.
It's all absolutely preposterous.
The flow of illegals into this nation, the fact that we don't have the political will to stand up against this lawlessness, to stand against an attack on our sovereignty as Americans, the fact that we have innumerable anti-American people embedded everywhere throughout our government.
So, you know, by the time they get to New York, I just laugh.
It's like, are you kidding me?
Now you're complaining now because you don't want to deal with them.
Well, you know, why don't you move to Arizona?
I don't really understand what the issue is.
You got plenty of issues here.
So, yeah.
No, but it's ridiculous.
Of course, it's ridiculous.
There's lawlessness.
All of this is fixable, Charlie.
You know, to have a city like San Francisco or Portland or whatever, to have these places go to hell.
It is all fixable.
I'm old enough to remember New York before Giuliani, okay?
It was kind of like that, right?
Giuliani comes in, institutes common sense policies, okay?
That you don't need to be like a conservative to understand like feces on the streets and like threatening insane people, homeless people wandering around.
And that's not good for business.
Giuliani came in and astonishingly changed New York City.
All of these things are fixable if you have the will to fix it.
And of course, the churches should be at the forefront of this too.
Well, they're not.
And in Chicago, they just have sworn in Brandon Johnson, a Marxist, as mayor of Chicago.
So, Eric, here's, you know, some people ask, and, you know, here's an email: Charlie, my pastor preached this weekend that we should not have borders, that Jesus is a refugee and we should let everyone into the country.
Eric, how would you respond to that?
I can't do like a loud horse laugh, but if I could, that's the only braying horse laugh.
There are people in pulpits that are so ignorant, theologically and historically ignorant, that they say things like that.
I don't know what they're looking for.
They want people to like them.
Jesus was a refugee.
What does that mean?
People say he was a refugee.
These things are meaningless political statements.
And of course, they're political statements.
We are to, you know, when it says to love the stranger, yes, you're to love the stranger, but you're not supposed to have government policies that erase borders.
That is just lunacy.
It's kind of like when Pope John Paul II was almost assassinated, he was shot, right?
He went and prayed with the man who did that, but they didn't let the guy out of jail so he could murder other people.
You have to have government policies.
The government has a role.
God has given it the role to wield the sword, to protect the innocent.
That is not the same thing as how I, as a Christian, should deal with the beggar on the street.
The fact that there are pastors and many Christians who are not pastors who don't understand these distinctions is about the breakdown of civics, teaching civics and understanding basic things.
People used to understand these things.
You didn't have to used to explain these things.
But when you have pastors like that trying to sound woke, trying to sound compassionate, they are deeply confused.
And again, if you go to a church like that, for the love of Pete, get the heck out yesterday.
There are a lot of pastors that are saying that.
And by the way, every time I post about illegals, people say, oh, and you call yourself a Christian.
You know, borders actually were a biblical concept.
The idea of distinctions, limitations on governing authorities, that nations shall be blessed.
By the way, Jesus was not a refugee when he went from his birthplace at Bethlehem to Egypt.
They say, oh, he was a refugee.
No, that's all within the Holy, not the Holy Roman Empire, the Roman control of the time.
It's not a refugee.
And so, but, but, Eric, they say this over and over again to try to, you know, let's just say push forward some sort of liberal or left-wing worldview.
Your thought one minute remains.
Again, the point is, Charlie, God made you to argue with these lunatics.
I have to walk away because most Americans know these things.
You don't need biblical exegesis or Charlie or Eric to explain it to you.
Most Americans know borders.
That's normal.
It's like having a wall and a door.
And these are the most basic things.
Most Americans know this.
It is only out of touch elites, usually globalist, lunatic, atheist elites that spout this kind of thing.
And of course, it's made its way into the church.
So you have theoretically Christians spouting leftist talking points.
I cannot take it seriously.
I refuse to take it seriously because most people trying to survive, they don't take this seriously.
They don't live their lives that way.
We need to talk to those people.
They already get this stuff.
Trump Prevails Amidst National Crisis 00:04:55
So Eric Russell Moore has come out and he said he's going to be Never Trump.
Eric, I don't know.
Where are you standing on the 2024 race?
1,000% Donald Trump, period.
End of conversation.
It gets ridiculous.
There are many wonderful people, but I think the only person who has the ability at this point, not just to win, but to do what needs to be done, is Donald Trump.
I think that, again, a lot of people play patty cake with evil, even good guys, even conservative guys, they don't understand that we're in a war and the people, it's like dealing with the cartels.
Like, you know, they'll cut your fingers off.
These are not nice people.
We're dealing with people in this political battle in America where you need somebody who understands the stakes, someone who has himself been so unbelievably viciously, unprecedentedly attacked that he understands what we're dealing with.
And I think Trump will prevail.
And I'm glad that I'm glad I think the CNN Town Hall was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life.
The whole idea that they bring him in, they think it's going to be a big win-win for us.
Disaster.
They're like practically weeping the next day, even that evening over giving him a voice.
You know, this like this, this Hitlerian figure that they brought him onto the network.
We're, you know, we're really sorry.
It was just, I'm also hopeful for the country, Charlie, because I think, again, many Americans are waking up to the evil we're dealing with.
What we're dealing with, you know, it's not 2004.
It's not 1985.
We have allowed something horrible to grow unchecked over the decades.
And now we're seeing the fruit.
And by the way, it will get much worse.
It's God's mercy to us to see the evil now so that we will wake up, but it will get much, much worse if we don't fight against it.
And I simply think that Trump is the man who has the ability to do that.
I wish many of the others well, obviously, but I don't think that they're the people for such a time as this in the way that I think the Trump is.
And so I think Trump's in a really good spot.
DeSantis is probably going to announce any week.
Now, I'm sure you have a lot of friends that are behind DeSantis.
I think the sooner we wrap up this primary, the better.
I wish I could, I don't know DeSantis.
I wish I could get him alone in a room and say to him, please, for your sake and the nation, go to Donald Trump and say to him, what can I do to help you, sir?
I think that would be the best thing for America.
I really do think that he'll get his chance.
But I think that people often kind of quail and quiver that they think, oh, all these bad things are happening.
Trump's not electable.
That's the whole point of all of these preposterous political attacks is to make him seem unelectable to people who are kind of like trying to read the tea leaves.
I was told by friends in 2016, Eric, Eric, please stop.
defending Trump.
He's going to lose.
Hillary is going to win.
Eric, you need to understand that.
And you and all the evangelicals you associate yourself with, they're going to be in trouble when Hillary is elected.
You better like bring it down now.
And I thought to myself, you know, even if that were true, that wouldn't be the moral thing to do.
We're supposed to stand up for what is right and true.
And I just think that those voices are always out there trying to kind of pick people off.
But I just, you know, I feel like God's hand is still on this country.
And I think that he wants to help us to become the nation that it's his will for us to become.
But as we keep saying, the number one issue here is the church.
Will the church wake up and back whatever candidate?
I believe it's going to be Trump.
But I mean, it just cracks me up that there's so many people that they kind of don't care if the country goes down in flames or they pretend like it just won't go down in flames.
We can just look away and whoever gets elected is elected.
I wish that were true.
I really do, but that's not true.
Eric Metaxas, see you next week at our pastor summit.
I pray it makes a difference.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.
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