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Jan. 31, 2023 - The Charlie Kirk Show
33:42
When Race Trumps Merit with Heather Mac Donald and Will Hild
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Larry Fink And The Pension Fight 00:10:42
Hey, everybody, what is ESG?
Who is Larry Fink?
We dive into this villain that is on the landscape of the corporate pension fight.
And then Heather McDonald, who is one of the clearest thinkers in the entire movement, joins us for her reaction on the Memphis situation and also what happens when race is prioritized above merit.
Email me directly, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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I'm just curious, just to kind of get a little bit of a check on the pulse, email me, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Where are you standing on the 2024 race?
Has any of this moved you with President Trump and with the dispatching of surrogates to support the Romney regime of the RNC?
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I'm not worried.
I'm concerned that there's maybe a disconnect, and I'm curious where you are.
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I'm very worried about ESG.
It's one of the great threats to our liberty, one of our great threats to private property, one of the great threats to Western civilization.
And I don't think people understand it fully or completely.
And you've been hearing about one of our partners here on this program, Consumers Research, great organization.
Love to be partnering with them.
And joining us now is the executive director of Consumers Research, Will Hild, taking over as executive director in 2020, launched Consumer First Initiative.
Will joins us right now.
Will, welcome to the program.
Thanks for having me, Charlie.
It's great to be here.
Will, tell us about ESG and the work that you're doing to expose this treacherous scheme.
Absolutely.
Well, very simply, ESG stands for environmental social governance, and it's billed by its proponents, like big asset managers like BlackRock and State Street and Vanguard.
It's billed as just another investment strategy.
You know, you've got Warren Buffett out there doing value investing.
You've got big names doing momentum investment.
We're over here doing ESG.
What it really is, is a stalking horse.
It's a way to wedge in a far-left progressive platform into the management of the United States investment funds and to push corporate America to basically just become a political utility for the Democratic Party.
And I'm sad to say that unfortunately, they've built it right under our noses.
And right this day, you have billions upon billions of dollars of red state pension fund money that's being managed by these companies.
It's being used to drive up prices at the grocery store and at the gas pump and to undermine conservative value.
Where did ESG come from?
It seems as if this was an abstract academic concept that, at least in my own memory, began with trying to get college pension funds to divest from fossil fuels.
At least that seemed to be the activist energy when I first got started at Turning Point USA.
2012, 2013, there were these wackadoodle apparatchiks that used to take over these board of regent meetings at Williams College and UC Berkeley, and they'd say, we need to divest all of our pension funds from fossil fuels, but it didn't seem to really have that much teeth.
And then out of nowhere, all of a sudden you have BlackRock and these trillion-dollar fund managers that take this incredibly radical concept of manipulating pension funds based on ideology.
Is that a fair history of this?
Absolutely.
If you want to go to the very, very beginnings of it, Wall Street tries to claim that it's all about fiduciary duty and risk management.
The term ESG, the idea, the concept behind it, actually was a project of the UN, came out of a UN report in 2005.
So it's about 15 to 20 years old now, but it's always been a nefarious plot to try and push the free market economy that provides us all the goods and services we need into a leftward direction.
But you're 100% right.
It really, really took off between the 2012 into 2017.
It really went parabolic.
And you had CEOs like Larry Fink of BlackRock starting to just openly state that they were going to use all of the, as you said, trillions of dollars that they have.
And it's not their money either.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It is state, local, federal pension funds.
BlackRock manages about 80% of the federal thrift savings plan.
So get this.
You have the pension fund for our United States military right now pushing left-wing policy proposals in corporate America, have them targeting things like net zero, which is another, I know, wonky term of art.
What that means is companies being net zero carbon emitters by 2050.
This comes out of the Paris Accords.
This is that crazy treaty that the United States has never signed, couldn't even get through a democratically held Senate when they were trying to push it through.
It's that insane.
It would have us all living in hovels and caves again if we actually tried to do it.
And yet Larry Fink and BlackRock and the other big asset managers are using our state's investment dollars to push this nonsense.
And they do it through threatening companies.
I'll give you a concrete example.
Two years ago, they voted three radical environmentalists onto the board of Exxon.
That's a company obviously that should be focused on oil and gas recovery and making sure that there's affordable energy for United States consumers.
Instead, BlackRock is pushing them towards unaffordable, unreliable, so-called green energies, which are nothing but.
They're horrible polluters built mostly in China.
So again, this is a real nefarious plot to turn corporate America into simply a wing of the Democratic Party.
And I'm sad to say that as of right now, they're using conservative states like Texas and Florida.
They're using our pension dollars against them.
So Will, all of this is somewhat sustainable, to use one of their words.
If the economy is growing robustly and if profits are being reported that are really healthy, one of my working theories is, and I'm just curious to see how it works out.
Can you sustain an anti-market force, which really what ESG is, when all of a sudden the sobering reality of economic recession starts to set in?
Do you think that as the economy starts to turn sour in the next nine months, that some of these major firms are going to kind of put ESG on the back burner?
You raise a great point.
And I share that same hope, but also projection that as the negative consequences of ESG that they've been running for the last 10 years starts to come home to roost.
We already see it with the inflation, with the lack of energy supplies.
These are because of 10 years of underinvestment in oil and gas recovery, new mining, new agriculture projects because of the restriction of capital by ESG.
And it absolutely is going to throw sand in their gears.
I'm hopeful it will also focus people's minds on what ESG is, what it means for them and their families, so that we can finally do something about it.
Because during the cheap money era, during the low inflation era, people, it was real easy to virtually signal.
I know you go hard against the virtue signal.
It was cheap to do that.
And it's been cheap for America to do that.
Now it's expensive.
And it's time that we turn the boat around and start doing what we should be doing.
Yeah, I think what you're doing is so important and it's perfect timing.
And again, it's consumersresearch.org.
I love it.
I learned a lot by going there because there's going to be this kind of delicious deathmatch that is going to unfold between these hyper-woke HR departments and the bean counters at these major corporations, where they're going to say, look, we really can't afford to pick our stock portfolio or allocate the funding of this firm solely based on abstract ideological principles.
When all of a sudden interest rates go up to 7% or 8% for a home and inflation is going out of control and the economy starts to fall and Dropbox lets off 10,000 people and Salesforce lets off 15,000 people and Meta lets off 20,000 people and the economy starts to fall apart.
I think it's going to be a blow to the ideologues unless these companies are willing to become super PACs and not turn a profit.
Well, and you're already seeing some of that.
They're pushing companies and they, again, this falls under their ESG framework to admit so they can scold them when they've given to political candidates that don't toe the line on net zero or trade associations or C3s or C4s.
So they know that the clock is running out, that the pressure is going to be higher and higher to turn the boat around, and they are doing whatever they can to gag politically anyone who would oppose them.
It's truly a megalomaniac project.
And so it's so important that consumers, that's why we've launched this campaign.
That's why we are out there educating consumers.
They are going to try to blame the weather.
They're going to try to blame the Ukrainian war.
They're going to try to blame whatever they can.
Don't let them fool you.
Let me tell you who's responsible for a good portion of the inflation you're seeing from the gas pump to the grocery store.
It's Larry Fink.
BlackRock and the other asset manager.
That's important.
I want to talk about Larry Fink.
People have to know who this man is.
He's uncomfortable at times being exposed, but he is able to deploy more muscle when it comes to making corporations to bow to his will in a very creepy, subservient way than anybody else.
He has more power than the king of Saudi Arabia when it comes to American corporations.
And we're going to walk through that.
Check out consumersresearch.org.
Blaming Inflation On BlackRock 00:06:28
It's a fabulous organization.
You will learn a lot.
Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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Before we go further into ESG, let me just say, I think the world of Patrick Mahomes.
I think he's one of the best athletes of a generation.
He is fabulous.
And I was looking at the game.
I was cheering for the Bengals.
I was.
I love Joe Burrow.
But the referees last, that's unacceptable.
Now, I have a contrarian take on this.
Some people say, Charlie, come on.
It was obviously unnecessary roughness and he was out of bounds.
Yes.
However, it is a fact that therefore a penalty decided the end outcome.
I don't love that.
And some of you say, well, come on, Charlie, the rule should always apply.
It was tight.
Was it, is that really the spirit of the rule?
Is you push somebody when they have one foot out of bounds and you are barnstorming across the field as quickly as you possibly can?
I watched that play five, seven, 10 times.
And not to mention the play that happened earlier that did, of course, actually result inconsequentially, where the ref just kind of blows off the play and no one listens to him and then they do a redo.
Never seen anything like that ever.
All right.
People say, well, Charlie, it was a penalty.
It was a foul.
It's tight.
You let a whole game be decided on a guy that runs all the way across the field and barely pushes the franchise tag quarterback.
After the referees already had a lot of suspicious behavior.
And I say this as a fan.
And you might say, Charlie, what's your agenda?
I just wanted an overtime game.
I wanted drama.
I wanted the most high-stakes game that you could have.
That's my agenda.
I wanted overtime.
Similar to Chiefs' bills last year.
Okay.
Will Hild is with us.
Will, who is Larry Fink and why should we care about him?
Certainly.
Well, Larry Fink is the CEO of BlackRock.
BlackRock is the largest asset manager in the world.
Before the market downturn, it managed over $10 trillion in money.
And again, that's state, local, federal pension funds that makes up that.
As you mentioned, university endowments, public university endowments are managed sometimes by BlackRock.
Our nation's military pension fund is managed by BlackRock.
So they have an immense amount of power.
Larry has an immense amount of power, not because of his own net worth, which is still substantial.
Don't get me wrong.
I would love to have his money.
But that is not where his power comes from.
His power comes from being a fiduciary, meaning people have given him money to steward for them.
Governments have given, your government has given them money to steward for you.
And what they're doing with it is using it to push a political agenda.
And so Larry Fink is deciding to use this power to try and then effectuate social change.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So he goes and imagine, let's do a concrete thought experiment here.
Imagine you're a Fortune 500 CEO.
You're the CEO of Exxon.
And Larry or one of his ombudsmen comes and visits you.
And they say, listen, we currently control about 8% to 9% of the shares of your company.
We're your largest single shareholder.
And we'd like you to, you know, put a woman on your board or put someone on the board because of the color of their skin.
We'd like you to declare that you're going to follow a net zero target for the Paris Accords, like 2050, net zero carbon emissions.
It is very hard to say no to that person.
It's very hard to say no to Larry Fink at that point because he can replace board members.
He can vote against you in shareholder proposals.
He could even get you fired.
So he has an immense amount of power.
And it's across the entire, it's not just one company.
We're talking about the largest companies in America over and over and over again.
And so that's, you know, you want to one of the reasons we've seen such a huge increase in woke capitalism, as we call it, right?
All these, all these companies, you know, alienating themselves from their consumers, doing weird things with their mascots, you know, pontificating on election integrity legislation in Georgia and Texas a couple of years ago.
Why are they doing that?
Larry think and BlackRock is a huge reason why.
They may be the number one reason why.
And they're probably the most powerful company the average person has never heard of.
And that's why we launched this initiative to make sure that consumers understand how their own state's money is being used to undermine their interests.
Walk our audience through your website, consumerswithansresearch.org.
Absolutely.
Consumersresearch.org, consumersresearch.org.
You can go on there.
You can find out more about the ESG scam.
You can find out what you can do and push back.
And of course, you can donate to the efforts.
We are running a multi-million dollar ongoing ad campaign against BlackRock to say, no, enough is enough to educate consumers and to educate elected officials that they need to do something.
And they are taking action.
Will, thank you so much.
Love partnering with you.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
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Redefining Racism In Liberal Institutions 00:15:24
Heather McDonald joins us now.
She has a new book you guys can pre-order starting February 6th of When Race Trumps Merit, How the Pursuit of Equity Sacrifices Excellence, Destroys Beauty, and Threatens Lives.
What a wonderful title.
Heather, welcome back to the program.
It's wonderful being with you, Charlie.
Thank you for having me on.
So, Heather, how should we think about the George Floyd 2.0 that wasn't?
It seemed as if the media was ready for another explosion in Memphis.
In fact, the New York Times had dispatched 11 reporters to Memphis alone.
How should we think about what happened in Memphis?
Well, the official narrative about this is it was because the cops were charged so quickly, although that now is being viewed as an act of racism on the part by Benjamin Crump, the ubiquitous civil rights attorney and other race activists.
So you can't win either way.
But I think the more likely reason is that even though we weren't told this as long as possible, these were black cops, not white cops.
If there had been five white cops engaged in this utterly abysmal display of police brutality and incompetence, I think cities would probably be smoldering still today.
So in a remarkable tweet, freshman House Democrat Maxwell Frost tweeted out, the murder of Tyree Nichols, and I don't know if I mispronounced the name, is anti-black and the result of white supremacy.
So Heather, they're blaming this on white supremacy.
Help me understand that.
Yes, what we've learned through this, Charlie, is that racism is by now a fully unfalsifiable proposition.
The first one out of the gate with this new expanded definition of racism was Van Jones for CNN that said, sort of, now you're telling us, Van, thanks a lot.
Well, we were wrong to focus on white on black police violence all along.
That was way too narrow a perspective.
Now it turns out the definition of racism is defined exclusively by the victim.
Anything bad that happens to a black victim is by definition racism, according to Van Jones.
And that idea has been picked up and made so widespread, it's really quite extraordinary.
Even the fact, as I say, according to the New York Times, that these five black officers were indicted so quickly is itself a factor or a result of racism.
If they end up getting put in prison, that's going to be just increasing mass incarceration and racism.
So there is simply nothing that will ever be viewed through the lens of individual behavior and personal responsibility and not as a way to simply slander the American polity.
White supremacy, when they say it, it works kind of like a conspiracy theory, like an actual conspiracy theory.
It explains everything.
It can never be disproven and it's always completely hidden.
It's like, oh, it's just white supremacy and no matter what it is.
So the Oxford educated cable news host wants us to believe that he's oppressed.
This guy, Mendy Hassan, or Mehdi Hassan, he responds to the Memphis shooting by says, look, I'm a person of color and absolutely is racism because if not, I wouldn't be able to get into Oxford Play Cut 11.
It takes race off the table?
No.
No.
What?
Just because the officers who assaulted him were black.
I mean, the idea that black cops can't be racist towards other black people on the street, in school, at traffic stops must come as a huge surprise to millions of black people in this country who've had to deal with black cops.
The idea that black and brown people can't internalize white supremacist tropes, narratives, ways of seeing the world is something that I, as a brown man, I'm telling you, is just patently untrue.
Heather, your reaction?
Well, you know, this Oxford-educated poor oppressed minority should know the previous academic definition of racism, which is by definition blacks cannot be racist because the definition of racism was privilege.
And even though we've seen the videos of blacks brutally beating up whites, brutally beating up Asians out of undoubtedly a very large component of race hatred, we were told, oh, nothing to see here, folks.
This can't possibly be racism.
This can't possibly be racism.
Al Sharpton's diatribes against Jews and diamond sellers, the hatred of Korean shopkeepers.
Oh, blacks can't be racism.
So now that we have five black cops beating up a black driver, possibly somebody who was speeding down the wrong street, in order to preserve the ubiquitous racism explains everything narrative, we now have to be able to fold blacks into the racist perpetrator category.
The only upside to this whole sordid response and this tragic event would be if, in fact, the definition of racism gets so big that the rest of the country just rebels against it and says, we're not going to put up with this any longer.
This is completely absurd.
No doubt.
I mean, the rules are really hard to follow.
So if five white people kill a white person, is that also racism then?
Basically, are they using racism as a filler term for just being awful?
Is that basically now the new filler term?
No, it has to be against a black victim.
But if we now learn that blacks can be, if according to Van Jones and other activists, if something bad happens to a black person, that's racism.
Well, then maybe we can also say that the black on black violence is racist.
Maybe that will get the attention of the Black Lives Matter activists because this parallel narrative, of course, that was not dislodged for one second by this incident, which is that the police are the greatest threats to blacks.
We heard Biden echoing this both before and after the videos of the Memphis beating were released, that this just shows the trauma that Blacks and grief and harm and sorrow and pain and suffering they put up with every day.
Biden would be right in saying that if he was referring to black on black killings, there's several dozen blacks who are killed in homicides every single day.
That's more than all white and Hispanic homicide victims combined, even though Blacks are only 13% of the population.
And they're being killed not by the police, not by whites, but by other Blacks.
So, you know, that's the problem.
Police are not the problem.
Police are the solution.
Yes.
But that's, you know, this is not going to change that narrative either.
And we have, as we're already seeing, this massive overcorrection of Memphis disbanding the anti-crime unit, the scorpion unit that these officers were from, rather than looking at training, rather than looking at hiring standards, we're once again saying, oh, it's something systemic about policing that's to blame.
And of course, the real systemic issue for most people on the left, including Biden, is race.
For years, I've been told by activists that Blacks commit, they don't commit more crimes, but the reason they might and the statistics is because there's more police in their neighborhood.
It's the exact opposite of a way to view it.
There's more police in your neighborhoods because blacks commit more crimes, period.
It's like, you know, we always hear about, well, riots are caused by the police showing up in riot gear and that causes everybody to riot.
No, it's, as you say, it's the exact opposite causality.
The reason the police are there in riot gear is you guys are rioting.
If you don't want the police in riot gear, how's about you stay home and or protest peacefully and don't start throwing Molotov cocktails at police precincts?
Yep.
Yes, I mean, we've got an independent test of this thesis that, oh, crime is just an epiphenomenon of police presence, which is homicide statistics.
The bodies don't lie.
Homicide statistics standard.
And blacks between the ages of 10 and 24 die of gun homicide at 25 times the rate of whites between the ages of 10 and 24.
That's not because the police are in neighborhoods counting black gun homicide victims and ignoring white gun homicide victims.
To the contrary, you know, the media is blatantly racist.
The media ignore black homicide victims, but they do get up in blathers upon occasion at white homicide victims like the girl that was abducted or killed by her boyfriend in the national park.
For once, Joy Reed was right.
We do have missing white girl syndrome, but we won't talk about black homicide victims because doing so, if one were honest and giving the complete picture, would mean talking about black homicide perpetrators, and that is completely taboo.
You know, it's interesting.
They will say that police cause crime.
We actually have a controlled piece of evidence to show that's not true.
Remember Chaz?
There were no police for a couple blocks for a period of time, and two people were murdered, and crime was everywhere.
There was no police.
So you have your little Paris commune isolated, controlled experiment, right?
You guys could go back into the state of romantic nature that Rousseau wrongly wrote about.
Okay, we are stripped of our patriarchal socioeconomic conditions.
We can live, you know, in the John Lennon society.
It turns out we end up murdering one another.
Give me your thoughts.
We had that true in George Floyd Square.
Yes.
We've had a big, big controlled experiment with post-George Floyd depolicing and the Ferguson effect.
Police back off.
Black lives are taken.
It's as easy as that.
Yeah.
And the Chaz example was tragic.
If I remember correctly, it was a minor that was murdered there and no one cared.
I don't even know if anyone was arrested.
I didn't follow it, unfortunately, afterwards.
But I mean, Chaz was what they always wanted, which was an autonomous, self-sustainable, no police.
We could do whatever we want.
Not to mention the rapes and the drug use and all of that.
But there were two people that were murdered in just a short period of time, not exactly entering, re-entering into the Garden of Eden that they always tell us.
We get rid of police.
We'll get back into, you know, our beautiful state of nature.
Yeah, that's it's the exact opposite.
It will be a state of nature, all right.
Not exactly what you think.
It'll be much more Hobbesian than Rousseauian.
Heather, tell us about your book.
Well, the book is sort of a perfect, coming out of the perfect time for this moment, because what we see is when you lower standards, you get mediocrity.
You also endanger lives.
And we are lowering standards in every institution in this country in the name of fighting so-called disparate impact and in the name of promoting diversity.
Well, you can have diversity or you can have meritocracy.
You can't have both.
And so I'm giving the actual facts that explain why we do not have so far proportional representation in our institutions, whether it's at Google or in the prison system.
We have underrepresented minorities, above all blacks, underrepresented in meritocratic institutions and overrepresented in prison.
Now, I'm not saying anything about any individual.
There's individuals from all races that are at the top of performance levels and at the bottom of performance levels.
But on average, we do have very large academic skills gaps and we have very large crime commission gaps.
Those are much stronger explanations for the lack of proportional representation in medical schools, in medical research labs, in hospitals, in ER rooms, in classical music orchestras, in museums, and in prison than racism.
But currently, the only allowable explanation for any kind of racial disparity is racism.
That's it.
And as long as racism is the only allowable explanation for racial disparities, the left wins.
And they are tearing down every institution in the name of fighting what is in fact phantom racism.
This is not a racist country.
It was before.
It is not today.
But we are determined to tear it down in order to fight something that is absolutely an optical illusion.
I encourage everyone to check out Heather's book when it's available for pre-order, but also the previous book, Diversity Delusion, which I think was really ahead of the curve, predicting so many of the disturbing trends we've seen.
It's diversity delusion.
That one is available.
You guys could check it out.
Great audio book as well.
But Heather, what I find interesting, and you're going to have to help me understand this, and we're going to have you back on the program to promote your book once it's available, is the people that are most aggressively pushing this new racial regime are ones that would never put up with it in their own personal lives.
These are high-income whites that would never put up with an incompetent hiring scenario in their business, on their private jets, whether it be running their own home or estate.
They would never put up with it.
Yet they are ideologically pushing this on lower income people to say, you're going to have to deal with it.
For example, people that live in Beverly Hills or Malibu or in Greenwich, Connecticut.
Okay, fine.
They'll get on their Gulf Stream and fly down to Palm Beach, but they're going to want to make sure their pilots were hired for competency.
When they go in for heart surgery, they're not going to care the color of their skin.
But for lower income people, you guys better get used to race over merit.
Help me understand that.
Well, yes and no.
And I thought you were going to say what is one of the most weird features is that leaders of important and groundbreaking traditions and institutions are willing to turn on their own institutions and accuse them of phantom racism.
So you have college presidents presiding over what used to be great institutions saying, oh, woe is me, we're so racist, and implicitly accusing their own faculty of being racist, which is preposterous.
These are liberal institutions.
You have heads of art museums saying the Western tradition, 5,000 years of art, is racist because there weren't black sculptors in 5th century BC Athens.
Well, there were no blacks in 5th century BC Athens, but they're willing to tell people, they're willing to tell young people coming to museums for the first time, see this collection through the lens of racial exclusion, which is poison.
Classical music heads are also saying, oh, the reason that there were no black composers in 15th century Flanders is racism.
Western Art Is Not Racist 00:01:07
No, that demographically, Europe was white until the 20th century.
So that is heartbreaking.
But yes, up to a point, you're right that the elite white perpetrators of racial preferences, when it comes to their own immediate lives, do expect that merit will triumph.
On the other hand, for their own institutions, corporations are mandating that managers get promoted based on their own hiring of blacks and promotion of blacks and are setting just preposterous hiring standards that can't possibly be met.
And to just close the point, show me anything from the third world that is as beautiful as Beethoven's Fifth.
You can't.
Some things are more beautiful than others.
Heather, thank you so much.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thank you so much for listening and God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.
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