It’s January 6, 2022. Two years after J6, and there are still political prisoners trapped behind bars for engaging in non-violent protest. Charlie speaks to Cynthia Hughes of The Patriot Freedom Project to discuss her fight to support and free those targeted for retaliation after the events of two years ago. He also speaks with Geri Perna, whose nephew committed suicide in despair after the DOJ menaced him with years in prison. Charlie also dives into Day 4 of the Speaker of the House race, where there might finally be a break in the unending deadlock.Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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House Floor Chaos Explained00:14:04
Hey everybody, Tantha Charlie Kirk show.
More house floor chaos.
I take your emails and we dive right into it, including the negative ones.
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Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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It does not look like there will be a speaker deal today.
Now, we're watching the House of Representatives drama that could change.
There are deals that are being cut.
But I want to take a step back.
Someone says here, Charlie, stop with the scare tactics.
Kevin needs to go.
I understand that.
I understand that.
That is the perspective of the audience.
Someone says, Charlie, there is no deal.
Aren't there any rhinos who will work with the communists?
And there aren't any rhinos who will work with the communists.
They're loyal to the leftist Jeffries.
Yeah, that's not true, but that's okay.
Maybe you guys know something that I don't know after working the phones for three hours with many of the Freedom Caucus people.
But let me kind of take a step back here.
Actually, yeah, let's play this.
Play Cut 53.
This is Don Bacon who says that we need to consider working with Democrats to get this deal done.
Play Cut 53.
All our committees are now shut down, and it's on these 20 people.
They're embarrassing the House.
They're embarrassing the Republicans.
They're embarrassing our country.
So I think over time with focus, we'll get some of these over.
But we also have to be willing to consider working with the Democrats at some point to get some concept, work on some concessions, to get some support there.
Look, I think Don Bacon is totally wrong here.
He shouldn't be doing that.
But that's where this is headed.
Someone says, Charlie, they're bluffing.
It's a lie.
Okay, well, let's take a step back.
Look, the emails that I'm getting from all of you is no McCarthy under any circumstances.
That is the perspective of the American grassroots and the base.
And I understand that.
I sympathize with that sentiment.
I think a lot of this is because of the $1.7 trillion omnibus that was passed in December.
I do not think that it has been properly explained or built out how large of a betrayal that is.
Now, look, the omnibus was negotiated in the Senate, and it was passed by the outgoing Democrat House.
Republicans voted against it.
And then a month later, Mitch McConnell turned around and started working with Democrats to set up a government spending bill for the next nine months.
The primary power that Republicans had was completely robbed of them.
I think that so much of what we are seeing unfold right now in the House floor is a byproduct of the $1.7 trillion omnibus bill.
Now, someone says right here, Charlie, please explain why a Republican House leadership is better than Hakeem Jeffries.
Yeah, I mean, the fact I have to explain it is a little silly.
How about Jim Jordan as the head of judiciary?
How about a Church and Pike committee?
Marjorie Taylor Greene on committees.
The Biden family being investigated, Fauci being investigated, Twitter being investigated, Google being investigated.
Someone says here, Charlie, investigations mean nothing.
That's not true.
That is not true at all.
Someone says, Charlie, you are a swamp creature for saying that there are only two options.
You're losing your credibility and are easily fooled.
Okay, Steve, let me ask you, who do you think is going to become Speaker of the House?
You have to live in the reality of the moment.
So who do you think is going to become Speaker?
I'm curious.
Who can get to 218?
I understand the sentiment.
I understand this.
Someone says, Charlie, you are just dead wrong.
I've never emailed anyone before.
This is historic, and your only two options is just faulty.
What the 20 is trying to accomplish is rules committee changes so McCarthy just can't go in and suspend the rules.
Well, no, that's what I said.
I said, but that would still make Kevin McCarthy Speaker of the House.
So is the strategy to get rid of McCarthy or is the strategy to get concessions?
If it's concessions, I think it's very admirable.
Someone says, Charlie, I'm surprised what you think are the two possibilities now.
I would have hoped that you'd understand where the Freedom Caucus is going with this.
It's trying to get rid of the GOP establishment.
Too bad you speak as you do.
You so disheartened Charlie that I'm going to have to change the channel.
Well, it's the facts.
You realize McCarthy is getting closer to becoming Speaker of the House, not further away from Speaker of the House.
That might anger you, but it's the Freedom Caucus that is actually meeting with McCarthy to make his speakership more inevitable.
There's only six or seven people, and you guys might agree with that.
That's fine.
I'm not going to say that you're wrong, that are trying to get rid of McCarthy.
14 of the 20 are actually not trying to get rid of McCarthy.
They're trying to get concessions to make the Congress more conservative.
Okay, let's play a piece of tape here.
And by the way, Don Bacon said from the floor, maybe it's time to start working with Democrats.
Let's go to here.
Let's go to Cut 54.
Matt Gates and Laura Ingram play Cut 54.
Hey, Congressman, will you be okay then if there's ultimately a deal struck with moderate Democrats that give Democrats kind of co-control of the committees?
You're fine with that.
No, absolutely not.
That will not happen.
There are two potential scenarios here.
No, listen, I'm on the floor, Laura.
These 212 Democrats are going to vote for Hakeem Jeffries every single time.
If Democrats join up to elect a moderate Republican, I will resign from the House of Representatives.
That is how certain I am.
I can assure your viewers that won't happen.
Charlie, surprise and the lack of fight in you.
That's just so silly.
It's just such a shocking thing to hear.
Lack of fight.
Right.
This is why we always lose.
At some point, you have to stand for something and be unwilling to surrender, get some stones and quit settling.
Cowardice is not a good look on you.
Right.
Charlie, we are tired.
It's time to say that we want Hakeem Jeffries or we want Byron Donalds.
Kevin McCarthy is worse than Hakeem Jeffries.
Okay, that's the perspective of the conservative grassroots.
Someone says here, Charlie, you're wrong.
They're not getting close to electing McCarthy.
You're either lying or you're being misled.
Yeah, you're wrong.
I mean, the 20 holdouts, 14 or 15 of them, they have been actually trying to bring this to the brink to get concessions from Kevin McCarthy.
That has been the strategy.
There are six or seven that are never Kevin's, but just understand what the strategy actually is here.
Now, maybe you at home, Natalie, know something I don't know after talking to 12 of the no's last night.
Maybe you're more read into that.
Someone says, Charlie, why aren't you fighting for us?
Actually, I am fighting for you.
I'm trying to prevent a uniparty speaker.
Interesting.
Email us freedom at charliekirk.com.
Subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show podcast.
Someone says here, Charlie, I really dislike Kevin McCarthy, but this deal seems to be really good.
In life, you have to compromise at times, and it should be taken.
Someone says here, Charlie, you are not a fighter.
We need to entertain the fact that the Democrats taking the house is okay.
We need to put it all on the line and risk it for the country.
I'm surprised that you do not want to risk the house.
Okay, interesting.
Email us, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Someone says here, don't be a Neville Chamberlain.
Interesting.
I'd be careful calling somebody a Neville Chamberlain if you really don't know what that means.
The $1.7 trillion omnibus was one of the main reasons that I think people are so upset.
And by the way, I'm not even saying you're wrong if you want to get rid of Kevin.
I'm not saying your sentiment is incorrect.
I'm simply telling you what is the reality, what the negotiations are happening.
You can get very upset about the reality.
That's fine.
But it is my job.
It's my obligation to you to communicate to what the members themselves are telling me.
Someone says, Charlie, stop mentioning Jeffries.
Well, no, we're getting hundreds of emails of people saying that they're comfortable with taking the risk of no McCarthy or Jeffries or saying it's exactly the same.
I reject that premise.
I do not think they're exactly the same.
Hey, I appreciate the negative emails, but I owe an obligation to you guys to tell the truth.
Where do you guys stand on this?
Email me, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Charlie Kirk here.
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Someone says here, Charlie, you are totally wrong.
It is time to risk it all.
Our country is going down.
We need to entertain the risk of losing the House of Representatives.
Boy, a lot of that kind of theme here.
Someone says, Charlie, you're too nice of a guy.
How did the election go in lawless Arizona?
I prefer listening to Gates, Boebert, and the 20 America First Patriots.
And look, I will say this, Don, thank you for the email.
I appreciate that.
And no, it didn't go well in Arizona.
And I fully acknowledge that things should have and could have gone better.
But a little cruel to mention that, but as is life.
I think that many of you that are holding the 20 people up as never Kevins need to understand that some of them are never Kevins, but 14 or 15 of them that I have communicated with are doing this to negotiate a more conservative house with Kevin still as speaker of the house.
And for that, it seems they've done a remarkably effective job.
They have.
I do think having Jim Jordan in charge of judiciary, a special investigation into Twitter, into Fauci, into the vaccines, and the CDC, the FDA, into the southern border, into Afghanistan, is something that would be worthwhile to shine a light on the darkness.
Ephesians 5, 12, expose their evil deeds.
To know the time, the place, the manner, the configuration, the funding.
Don't discount that, everybody.
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I want to just make one moral argument and then we can proceed.
The idea that it means nothing to expose dark deeds, I disagree with.
Ephesians 5:11 says to have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
It's actually our theme verse.
We have it around here somewhere.
I don't know what happened to it.
Exposing evil is a moral good.
Exposing Dark Deeds Today00:10:58
Now, I hear you.
I share some of the negativity of Charlie.
These people never go to jail.
These people are never held accountable.
So the question is: is it better to expose and to publicize it, even though nothing might happen, or not be able to expose or publicize it at all?
The second thing is this: if Republicans are able to get this figured out and control the House, if the speaker is Jim Jordan or Kevin McCarthy or Byron Donalds or this other Kevin Hearn guy or whomever, that it's not just about investigations.
It's also about oversight.
It's about bringing the heads of departments and having them answer and do the actual check and balances work.
Now, at times, is that all bark and no bite?
Yeah, that's true.
But I would love to be able to have Matt Gates, Lauren Bobert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Biggs be able to have subpoena power, subpoena power against the FBI to find out what actually happened on January 6th.
And that ties into our next guests.
And by the way, email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Cynthia Hughes, founder of the Patriot Freedom Project, and Jerry Perna, mother of Matthew Perna, who tragically took his own life after January 6th.
Cynthia and Jerry, welcome to the program.
Hi, Charlie.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you for having us.
And I'm his aunt.
Okay.
By the way.
Well, thank you.
Thank you both.
Tell us about both your stories and the work you're doing on this second anniversary of January 6th.
Third anniversary, but two-year anniversary.
So, Charlie, thank you for having me and Jerry and giving us the opportunity to speak out about J6, Patriot Freedom Project, and Matthew Kirna.
So I founded the Patriot Freedom Project after my own family was caught up in this train wreck and was held in solitary confinement for six straight months with one hour a day out of his cell on nonviolent charges with no criminal history.
And it became very, very frustrating.
And I decided I had to act and do something about it.
And so I connected with some families, started a family support group, connected with the great Julie Kelly.
And the next thing I knew, I was talking to Dinesh D'Souza and his amazing wife, Debbie, who graciously and generously donated to my cause.
And Patriot Freedom Project was born.
And with the help of the great Steve Bannon, we've raised over a million dollars and we've hired attorneys.
We have helped pay mortgage and rent and utility bills.
Families that have lost their health insurance because their husband is still in jail.
We've paid COBRA.
We've helped hire experts for these lawyers for trials.
And I've gotten very close with many of these families.
I spend a lot of time with the families.
I've traveled to meet many of the families.
I've had several of them in my home.
I just want to do my part and support.
I'm a person of action.
I don't like what's happening in this country.
I don't like that we're told we can't vote or support a president that we choose.
I don't like that we are ignored about election inconsistencies.
And I don't like to see American people's homes and families destroyed.
And I'd like to mention, if I could, Charlie, look what's happening with George Tanios and Julian Cater.
They're now being sued for $10 million each, along with President Trump.
And they're being accused of killing Officer Sicknick.
It's a tragedy what happened to Officer Sicknick.
We don't like to see the police assaulted, but let's be truthful.
It's already been established that these men are not responsible for what happened to Officer Sicknick on January 6th.
Their lives have been destroyed.
George has lost everything.
He has three babies.
And Julian Cater is languishing and wasting away in jail, also lost everything.
These men come from great families, and they're going to need a lot of help to fight these allegations and this latest lawsuit.
So I urge everybody to help support them and to support the Patriot Freedom Project.
We offer a lot of services here.
We have a mental health group.
We have a prayer group.
And we're doing a lot to help the lawyers.
So Cynthia continues.
Cynthia, we are at the two-year anniversary here.
Let me ask you, Violet, God bless you for the work you're doing.
And the website is patriotfreedomproject.com.
If people want to support it, I encourage them to do that.
How many people are still in pre-trial detention two years later?
So you have just over 100 people that are still, you know, that are in jail, right?
And of that number, you have maybe 40 people that are in pre-trial detention.
You have people that are awaiting sentencing.
You have people that are awaiting, who have been sentenced and are awaiting transferred to prison.
People think everybody is in the DC jail.
That's not true.
There's only about 17 or 18 guys left at the DC jail.
Some of them have already been sentenced.
Some of them are still awaiting trial, like Jose Padilla.
He has not had his day in court, and he's not going to go to trial until the summer.
He's been in jail for two years.
Pete Schwartz, he's been in jail for almost two years.
He just went to trial.
He was found guilty, of course, in record time.
And I'll tell you what's also happening in a lot of these cases.
You know, in DC, nobody's going to get a fair trial, Charlie.
All know that.
And in Pete Schwartz's trial, you had a juror in the drawer box who literally stood up in the middle of trial.
She did not like the videos that were being shown.
She ran out of the courtroom, ran out of the drawer box, ran out of the courtroom.
I mean, it's unheard of.
And there should have been a mistrial right then and there, but not this judge.
This judge said, no, we're going to continue on.
And then when the verdict came in, and all these three men were found guilty, you had jurors giving these men the middle finger.
This is unprecedented what we're dealing with.
And this DOJ is not done.
We have a very failed judicial system, and we're in big trouble here.
And we're going to be dealing with this until January of 25, when hopefully we have a president in the White House that's going to say enough is enough.
Get some pardons done.
This is ridiculous.
Jerry, tell us Matthew's story.
Matthew went into the Capitol on January 6th.
He stayed within the velvet ropes.
He didn't break in, as was reported.
He walked through an open door.
He didn't touch anything, break anything, steal anything.
He was in there for 10 minutes and he walked out the back door and he was arrested about a week later, or actually, he was, he found his picture on the FBI website a week later and he turned himself in that very same morning.
A week later, they came and arrested him and charged him with misdemeanors.
And then they, a few weeks later, they charged 240 people with the obstruction charge, which was a felony.
And that is when Matt's nightmare began.
It was 13 months of constant delays and postponements.
He was not in jail.
When he turned himself in, he was as polite and cordial and cooperative as he possibly could be with the FBI.
And in hindsight, that probably wasn't the best thing to do.
But Matt felt that this was all a huge misunderstanding.
And he did retain an attorney.
And his attorney was Democrat.
And Matt did not see a problem with that.
And that's just the way Matt was.
He wasn't a racist in any sense of the word.
He didn't see people by their religion, color, or their party affiliation.
And he felt that his attorney was the best man for the job.
But it was constantly a battle of delays and postponements that just wore him down mentally over those 13 months.
And the DOJ was not willing to budge on a plea deal of any kind.
And he had reached his breaking point in December of 2021.
And he asked his attorney, what was the best way to make this end quickly?
And his attorney says, plead guilty.
And I guarantee you won't spend more than six to 12 months in a federal prison camp.
Matt had no prior arrest.
Charlie, he never even had a parking ticket before all of this.
He had a good job.
He was an upstanding member of the community.
But the community turned on him when the media painted such a negative picture of him as they have the rest of the J-Sixers.
And he had reached the point where he wouldn't leave his home.
And so he pled guilty.
And he was supposed to have his sentencing hearing on March the 3rd of last year.
And a week before Matt called me on the phone after he spoke to his attorney, he was sobbing.
He said he had a bad feeling about March the 3rd.
It was the anniversary of his mother's death.
And his attorney told him that they had indeed postponed it until April Fool's Day and that they were actually seeking to add a terrorism enhancement at his sentencing hearing.
So his six to 12 month prison sentence, which he had accepted already and mentally prepared himself for that, was now going to be possibly changed to four to six years in jail.
And that's Friday evening on February 25th.
My nephew at 37 years old hung himself in his garage.
And our life.
Our lives and our family have not been the same and will never ever be the same.
And this DOJ is responsible for the mental torture that they put my nephew and the other J-Sixers through for non-violent misdemeanor crimes, which really, I don't even see the crime in it.
It's the people's house.
He walked into the people's house through an open door and no one stopped them.
No one arrested anybody that day.
And it ruined his life and it has ruined ours as well.
Well, we are with both of you.
And on this two-year anniversary, it's the Department of Justice who is acting in a totalitarian, Stalinistic way.
And it's not victimless in any way.
How do people support the cause?
Again, patriotfreedomproject.com, either of you.
Yes, you can visit patriotfreedomproject.com.
Why Voting Matters Now00:04:28
You can see all the ways you can support our efforts.
You can visit us on Truth Social.
You can find us on Twitter.
And you can, of course, find us on Getter, PatriotFreedomProject.com.
Also, if you would like to learn more about Matthew and the amazing life he lived, rememberingmatperna.com.
We are in the process of starting his foundation to continue his humanitarian efforts.
Thank you both.
God bless you both.
And we are behind you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Jerry.
Thank you, Charlie.
Thank you.
Heartbreaking story that we just heard from Jerry and Cynthia.
If they can't put you in prison, the regime will make you believe what is the point in living.
And the DOJ does not care.
I disagree with this email.
Charlie, I think you're measured and intelligent.
I agree with that part.
But your audience is full of morons.
I don't agree with that.
I think our audience is super smart and have been betrayed and lied to.
Thank you for having the patience to tolerate the uninformed, vapid responses you're getting from some of your listeners.
I'm watching on RAV now and some of the statements they're making attacking you and saying we're better off having Jeffries over the establishment, Rhino Hack.
McCarthy is insane thinking, goes on and compliments me.
Kelly, I appreciate the email, but I don't think the people that have been saying that are morons, nor do I think that their feeling is necessarily incorrect.
What do I mean by that?
The omnibus bill, the open border, the money to Ukraine.
You, the audience, have been betrayed.
And I hear you and I see you.
And I don't think that's a moronic thing to believe.
I would encourage, though, to try to embrace some, that's not the right word.
I would try to just have a posture of prudence of what is achievable in the art of the possible.
When I first started Turning Point USA, the national debt was $12.7 trillion.
Now it's upwards of $31 trillion.
The southern border was not being invaded, and our country has just fallen apart.
And so while I appreciate the defense and thank you for that, and by the way, I take all the criticism.
You can email me whatever you want.
I don't take it personally.
In fact, I appreciate it and I enjoy it.
I don't think that if you're saying that Hakeem Jeffries wants to be, it's the same as McCarthy, you're a moron.
I think you're wrong.
I don't think you're a moron.
That's what you're saying is, Charlie, I feel as if everybody is the same.
And that sentiment is hard to disagree with.
It really is.
That sentiment, based on the behavior, the lying, the betrayal, the deceit, is well-founded.
It's rooted.
It has a foundation in truth.
It really does.
But then at the other time, at the other side, you have to have the inverse of what is possible.
Where it's going right now, and we're looking at the votes, is Kevin McCarthy is rapidly gaining votes in this latest vote carousel.
And I don't mean carousel as if it's a circus, but it kind of is a circus.
And so we're seeing Donalds.
I don't know how Gosar voted.
I think that Kevin McCarthy will definitely fall short in this round of votes, but he'll probably fall short of 10 votes.
So it was 20 and now it's 10.
And so I suppose the question is: what is the goal?
And I've said that the goal of most of the House Republicans is not to get Kevin to resign.
The goal is to get Kevin to have a more conservative rules, steering, and policies around that.
Not saying you should have to support that, but that is the reality of what many of the people's holdouts have been this entire time to get a better deal.
And so for the first time, Dan Bishop has now voted for Kevin McCarthy.
And for the first time, Byron Donalds has now voted for Kevin McCarthy.
And so the more they negotiate, it's actually getting closer towards a McCarthy speakership, not further away.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email me your thoughts as always: freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thank you so much for listening, and God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk dot com.