The Best Arguments for LIFE with Seth Gruber LIVE from Freedom Night in America
Charlie sits down with one of the most compelling and articulate defenders of life in the country, Seth Gruber, to equip you with some of the most powerful pro-life arguments that exist to stand up for the unborn in your own spheres of influence. Seth, who's on a nationwide tour of his own called the White Rose Initiative, allows Charlie to play devil's advocate, offering up all of the most common pro-abortion arguments you'll hear in today's culture. Seth and Charlie's conversation will give you the intellectual and spiritual ammunition to shoot down the empty talking points of an indefensible moral position. Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Seth Gruber, who has a new organization called the White Rose Resistance.
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Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you.
A great turnout.
This just keeps on growing and growing, everybody.
Great to be here.
I first just want to say thank you to Dream City for continually hosting this.
You all have a lot to do, and to be here is a big deal.
And this is growing to churches all across the country.
We have our good friend John Randall here from Calvary Chapel, San Juan Capistrano, who and we have pastors from all over the valley here, by the way.
This is spreading, and the idea of the church taking biblical stands in a chaotic and troubling time is more important than ever before.
You know, I do want to make sure I brag, though, on our project that we're working together up in Glendale.
I had somebody that kind of tracked me down in a grocery store.
They kept on following me through aisles, like, what does this person want?
And they wanted to tell me that they were taking their kid out of the Scottsdale Unified School District, and at the soonest moment possible, they're going to enroll them at Dream City Christian, a Turning Point Academy.
How great is that?
And it was a very surprise when I get hunted down like that.
It's very, it's much better than what sometimes happens.
And speaking of that, I'm going, we're doing our college campus tour soon, so prayers are very much appreciated.
I think a week from tonight, I'll be at University of Texas Austin, which if you know anything about UT Austin, it's not exactly friendly territory.
So I want to talk about a couple things that we're doing at Turning Point, but also for those of you that are new here, welcome.
We do this every single month, as Angel mentioned, our last one of the year, because December is a very busy year.
First, December is a busy year.
It's a busy time of the year.
First here at Dream City, obviously, with the amazing Christmas shows that go on, but also at Turning Point USA, we have America Fest.
So our last one of the year will be on November 2nd with Pete Hegseth and Jensen Franklin.
So you're very welcome to come there.
But if you're new here and you're not really sure what you expect, tonight is about a couple things.
The theme verse of us coming together tonight is Jeremiah 29:7, where the Lord is speaking and he says, Demand the welfare of the nation that you are in, because your welfare is tied to your nation's welfare.
We are called as Christians to reject apathy and cynicism.
We are called as Christians to care about what happens within our city gates, within the boundaries of our nation.
We are called to care about the most vulnerable, the least of these in our society.
We're called to pray for our leaders, as it says in 1 Timothy.
And we're also called as Christians to be aware of what is happening.
You know, far too often I hear Christians where they say, you know, I just don't have time.
The news is too confusing and I can't make sense of what's happening.
Well, that's what tonight is hopefully able to compress so much into one night so you can walk away better informed from a biblical perspective of what is happening nationally and in the state of Arizona.
And it's not even about politics, by the way.
It's about something much more important.
It's biblical, not political, what we do tonight.
It's about eternal truths that we are focusing on.
And the stories that come out of Freedom Night are just extraordinary.
You know, we hear about people that thought that they were completely alone.
They come to tonight and they get filled up, they get energized, and they get really motivated to do meaningful things here in the Valley and across the state of Arizona.
And so, a couple things I want to mention: first of all, we have a project at Turning Point USA that we've been working on for about nine months.
Where is Matt?
Matt, do we have that queued up?
Okay, we do.
Good.
I didn't want to call for it and then have it not play.
And so, look, this project has been something, it's been nine months of work.
And, you know, I have been very disappointed at how the national media has ignored what is happening on our southern border.
And I, and by the way, this is not political.
It's not at all.
This is an issue of human rights.
It's an issue of dignity.
It's an issue of human trafficking.
It is an issue of smuggling.
This is not right at all.
You can have your own views about immigration, all that.
This is something much deeper than that.
And so we felt from Turning Point USA, it was imperative, since we being here at a border state, to factually tell the story of what's happening on the southern border.
And so we've been working on this project for nine months.
I went down to Yuma and I saw the firsthand things that are so sad and so terrible.
And so we have a new series coming out called Border Battle.
I want to show you the trailer.
We're partnering with the great Salem Media Company to distribute this.
You guys can find it at salemnow.com.
I'll tell you more about it.
And then there will be a release for all of our wonderful Freedom Night in America attendees.
But watch this and tell me this doesn't get you motivated.
Check out this trailer.
Describe the cartel pure evil.
They have zero regard for human life and they're about as evil as they come.
They're not just a transnational crime organization.
They're well beyond that.
Now they have sophisticated weapons.
They have tanks.
They have drones.
They drop in explosives.
We've never seen this before in the history of the country.
Fentanyl is an extremely powerful drug.
It is 100 times more powerful than morphine and 50 times more powerful than heroin.
That would be like three grains of salt.
If you were to have that much fentanyl, it would kill you.
I just think of every mom that is going to spend the rest of their lives.
What about someday they work?
It's not a red or a blue issue.
It's a red, white, and blue issue.
The Moral Compass of Society00:16:10
Amen.
And so, if you're interested in checking that out, thank you.
It's SalemNow.com for the exclusive release, and we're partnering from Turning Point USA.
Look, we're doing a lot.
We have our campus tour, our high school tour, but I wouldn't be able to live with myself if we did not tell the story of the border living in a border state, truly.
And we talk about, I don't even have to say it here.
There's some graphic stuff in there that from an adult eyes, if you feel your kids are mature enough to see it, it's a wake-up call.
What's happening there?
The exploitation, the sex trade, it is so unspeakable, and we have to fix it.
One other story I want to focus on about the need to fight early, because I know so many of you here tonight are very worried about the future that your children are entering.
There's a story that has really disturbed me over the last couple of days.
It's not here in Arizona, but it very well could be soon.
And it's around this theme of what happens when you do not intervene with truth early because you're afraid of offending somebody.
I don't know if you've been following the story of the volleyball girls team, the girls' volleyball team in Vermont.
It's very, very instructive.
So there is an all-girl volleyball team in Vermont where an individual who claimed to be a woman, a man who thinks he's a woman, comes and says, I want to participate on this volleyball team.
Vermont, being Vermont, they said, sure, why not?
And they allowed that to happen.
The individual then was granted access to the locker room to change alongside other girls, and people said nothing, right?
Or, you know, just kind of little musings or rumblings.
Well, then the man who thinks he's a woman started to say somewhat derogatory and kind of offensive things to the other young ladies on the volleyball team, making the young ladies uncomfortable, teenage girls, by the way.
So they report this to the coach and to the leaders of the school, saying, Hey, we're not trying to be intolerant here.
We're not trying to be mean, but we're really not comfortable because he's saying some rather offensive things and we don't like changing around this individual.
And so what ended up happening is now that girls' volleyball team is being disciplined for being intolerant for not wanting to forcibly change around another male in the high school.
Now, this is a real, you could check it out yourself.
It's a huge story where they are facing disciplinary action for what basically they're describing as being bigoted towards a trans person.
And isn't that interesting how this marks in sequential steps?
Where first they say, hey, you must tolerate something, then you must accept something, then you must celebrate that something, and then you must participate in that something.
And it's so shocking, isn't it?
Because some people say, oh, come on, what's the big deal of just tolerating the fact that men can participate in female sports?
Well, despite the fact that it is not fair and it's cheating and it's wrong, that aside, now all of a sudden, the new standard being set in Vermont, this is what happens when you do not fight early for truth, when you're afraid of people being offended by what you have to say, is the new standard that is being set is that you could very well face disciplinary action.
You could get in trouble if you dare not want to change around another man as a woman, as an athlete in Vermont.
And I know what a lot of you are probably thinking.
You're probably thinking, where are the adult men in this community that are allowing this to happen?
And the answer is complex but simple.
I know it sounds paradoxical, but we could spend an hour on it or 10 seconds.
We are living through what C.S. Lewis predicted as the men without chests.
We are living through that right now.
You should read Abolition of Man.
It's a short, beautiful book.
C.S. Lewis, one of the great authors of all time, definitely one of the greatest in the 20th century, of a society of men without chests, without courage.
Where we look around and we say, well, you know, I don't, I want to be tolerant.
And this is where we as Christians have to be prayerful, but also very wise, which is if you love God, you must hate evil.
Psalm 97, 10.
And this is the opposite of tolerance.
This is forced tolerance now.
No, it's worse than that.
It's forced participation.
That you are not allowed to now be on a volleyball team as a woman if you do not want to share the locker room with a man who makes you feel uncomfortable.
All to not want to offend a single person.
That's what happens when the strong do not protect the young.
When the adults do not come in and set moral standards and moral boundaries.
If you ask me, that's much more important than politics.
That's much more important than red and blue and all that stuff.
It's a question of right and wrong.
It's a question of the moral compass of a society.
And there's just one thing, and it actually ties in beautifully to what Seth and I are going to talk about tonight.
You can judge a society based on what people with strength do or do not do to protect those of people.
You could call them weak, but that sounds insulting.
People that are not as strong, people that are not as big, people that are as powerful.
Because a nation that says it doesn't matter if we abort a million lives every single year, why on earth would they then care about a teenager that has to do something that makes them uncomfortable?
It's the same sort of moral slide that allows that to happen.
But we're going to address that head-on tonight.
And I could say collectively, we're not going to put up with it here in Scottsdale.
We're not going to put up with it here in the state of Arizona.
We're not going to allow our children to be taken advantage of.
It's not going to happen.
And that's a beautiful segue.
Beautiful segue to what I consider to be one of the most articulate and charismatic pro-life speakers in the country.
He's a very special person.
I've known him for a while.
He's doing an entire tour around the issue of abortion.
I don't like giving trigger warnings, but I know that there's people that are here that probably don't even know what you're about to experience.
If you hear something and it offends you, try to just anchor yourself in that seat to the end of the program tonight.
Because I think God has something in store for you to challenge maybe your worldview about what is abortion, what is a human being, and what, how should we talk about this issue?
Because if you're like me, I am exhausted with the political advertising around abortion in this state.
Are you?
It is nonstop.
And I'm just looking for a little bit of clarity on the subject.
And boy, you're about to get a fair dose of clarity.
Please join me in welcoming Seth Gruber to the stage.
All right, Seth, welcome to Freedom Night.
Thank you, brother.
Let's dive right in.
So why should we as Christians care about the issue of abortion?
I hear from pastors all the time, too controversial.
The Bible is not clear.
I only preach the gospel.
That's right.
Yeah, just preach the gospel.
Well, firstly, let me just say, you guys know this already, but just as a reminder, Charlie Kirk is probably one of the most outspoken conservative pundits who regularly addresses the issue of life and the plight of the unborn as frequently as he can on his program.
And if I could bottle the intellectual, spiritual, and moral courage and clarity of Charlie Kirk and inject it like a booster shot into the arms of American pastors, I could end abortion in this country in one year.
Don't worry, I won't mandate it.
I won't mandate.
Hold on.
The booster shot hopefully would work, and amongst other things.
That's right, that's right.
I couldn't resist.
I'm so sorry.
That's right.
Well, to your question, brother, and thank you so much for this privileged opportunity.
Charlie and Turning Point Faith are sponsoring a nationwide church tour I'm doing right now called the White Rose Resistance National Life Tour.
And the White Rose Resistance is the name of my new organization.
We have a table out back.
We'd love to give you guys a hug and connect afterwards.
So there really is no option for a Christian to be pro-choice or pro-abortion for one simple reason.
Your Savior entered human history in a uterus to redeem mankind from their sins.
Jesus Christ is the greatest former fetus to have ever existed who actually chose to identify with you at your most vulnerable stage, the prenatal stage.
And one more thing from the scriptures, Charlie.
I know, knit together, fearfully and wonderfully made.
Psalm 139, beautiful.
We could unpack it all day.
Let me go to a different one.
In Luke 1, it says that the prenatal John the Baptist leaps in the womb.
Remember, because he recognizes his prenatal deity, Savior, in Mary's womb, in the same room.
And because Christ is fully God and fully human at the moment of conception and God knits life together in the womb, it means that the prenatal Jesus is knitting himself together in the womb while he knits the prenatal John the Baptist together in the womb while he knits himself together in a womb that he once knit together when Mary was in the womb of her mother.
Christianity is called the incarnation.
Welcome to the Christian faith.
If you need some wonder brought back into your faith, wake up every morning and dwell on the incarnation for a few moments.
And so you read Luke 1 and it says the baby leaped in Elizabeth's womb.
So that's referring to the unborn prenatal John the Baptist.
What Greek word is used to refer to the prenatal unborn John the Baptist?
It's a Greek word, berephos.
Okay, turn to Luke 2, and it says, Mary laid baby Jesus in the manger.
So this is the infant Christ already outside of the utero.
What Greek word does the author of scripture use to refer to an infant already born?
Berephos.
Oh, our Savior uses the same term to refer to a baby in the womb as a baby outside the womb.
Oh, for Christians and pastors who would see no distinction in dignity, value, and worth as well.
That right there, you should clip and send to every pastor in America, right?
Right, by the way.
So, but Seth, you know, some pastors would say it's too controversial of an issue, and you're not being very nice.
So, I've been a pro-life activist since I was a fetus, Charlie.
And I'm actually only half joking, brothers and sisters.
You see, my mother was the executive director of a pregnancy resource center in the late 1980s, early 1990s while pregnant with me.
And she only stepped down from directing that pregnancy center right across the street from Azusa Pacific University when she gave birth to me.
And I've been reliably informed by Fauci and Francis Collins in the Fall of the Science tyrants.
I've been reliably informed that the body in her body is just her body.
It was always just her body.
There is no other body.
Therefore, according to the law of transitive property, the babies my mother was saving as the director of a pregnancy resource center were babies I was saving because I was part of her body.
I was her body.
And so that's why I've been a pro-life activist since I was a fetus.
Follow the science, you degenerate rubes, right?
And we can get into how actually the science of transgenderism and abortion are identical.
Very interesting conversation.
But I've been trying to get pastors to preach on the issue of abortion for years.
I gave my first speech on abortion at 18.
I just turned 31.
And here's what I was always told: Seth, we don't talk about it because it's political.
Or secondly, they say, well, we don't want to shame and condemn the men and women in our church who are post-abortive.
But as one of my colleagues says, pastor silence on abortion does not spare his men and women hurt.
It spares them healing.
You may have an opportunity to share the gospel in a way to that broken, hurting man or woman such that they could experience forgiveness and healing and redemption and then be used to be a voice against this culture of death because they've been there and they can say, don't do what I did.
And so for people to say, oh, it's too controversial, we're not going to address it.
You're actually causing more harm in your congregation.
And you're giving the enemy of our soul, Satan himself, a foothold, a stronghold in your congregation to keep men without chests and to keep the hurting women silent who could be leading others into freedom.
So Seth, let's go through.
This is really well said.
By the way, I love having him as a guest.
I just get to listen.
It's like Bill Federer type energy.
Let's go through SLED.
I use it all the time.
Well, let's follow the science.
Yeah, let's follow the science.
Is Anthony Fauci here?
We invited him, I don't know.
I don't think he's more than welcome, by the way.
I want all to be saved.
I really do.
I mean that.
And so, sled, size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependency.
So, I go to a lot of college campuses.
I hear a lot of pro-abortion arguments.
You and I were both at Berkeley back to back, I think, day after day.
And it just turns out my conversation went to abortion.
I think yours obviously did as well.
But almost every single one of the pro-abortion arguments can fall into one of these four categories: the Ackerman sled, S-L-E-D.
So, let's start with size.
I will play the pro-abortion devil's advocate.
But, Seth, the fetus is so small and therefore small, not a lot of moral worth.
So, why do you want to protect something so small?
Yeah, well, men are generally larger than women, but that doesn't mean that men have more rights than women.
It's not like Shaquille O'Neal has any more rights than Barbara Streisand, right?
Our dignity and rights don't come from our size.
But notice what the pro-abortion arguments always do: they point out a difference between the unborn and the born, and then they insert or inject moral value into those differences.
So, the differences, Charlie, just referred to size, level of development, environment or location, and degree of dependency.
Now, notice today, most pro-abortion advocates will not argue that the unborn is not biologically human.
That harkens back to like 30 years ago.
They don't really make those arguments anymore.
They're fully willing to admit that it is a human being, but they say, But look, it's so different than us.
So, from a 30 or 60,000-foot view, you should just be aware of the fact that this is no different than the arguments to kill the Jews and black men in this country by saying, Well, look, they're so different than us.
You see, our dignity and rights don't come from our cognitive abilities, our accidental properties, or our functions, they come from our human nature.
And if you don't ground human rights in the only thing we have in common, we're all human beings, you leave it to the political class and the elite class to define which categories or cognitive abilities must be met to meet their litmus test for personhood.
So, yes, the baby's less developed.
That's the second one.
I mean, look at it, it can't feel pain, it's not viable, it doesn't aware that it's existing, it's not self-aware, doesn't have any desires.
And so, because these are sort of developmental markers on the continuum of human development, they say if you don't have this level of development or function, you're not a person with rights.
But it's very easy to debunk all these arguments if you understand the undergirding worldview that they're operating off of.
And that undergirding worldview is actually the same worldview that animates transgenderism today.
And it's a worldview, or let's call it a religion, called body self-dualism or Gnostic dualism, which, by the way, the church Charlie declared a heresy centuries ago.
So, Gnostic dualism or body self-dual dualism is this idea that the real person is not their bodies.
The real person are our thoughts, our aims, our consciousness, and our desires.
And so, the baby might have a human body, its heart might start beating at 21 days, it might be capable of responding to stimuli, according to experts in fetal pain, as early as about 12 weeks.
It might respond to stimuli, but none of that matters because it doesn't have any desires, so it doesn't have a desire to go on living.
It's not self-aware of itself, or they say it can't feel pain yet.
And so, they say those are the markers that must be met before one is a person.
So, here's one argument: the baby doesn't have a desire to go on living, Charlie.
So, what's it to them?
Ever heard a pro-abort say the baby doesn't know they're being aborted?
So, what's it to them?
Let's see, can we kill people who have suicidal tendencies?
Do they desire to go on living?
What about Buddhists?
What do Buddhists try to reach?
Nirvana.
I don't think this is possible, guys.
But if you reach Nirvana, do you know what that means?
You eradicate all desires, including, I guess, the desire to go on living.
Oh, like the fetus that you're saying we can rip limb from limb in the womb because they don't have a desire to go on living.
I can do this all day.
Whatever function they hone in on and say, the baby can't display this function right now that I demand they be able to show to me to be a person.
Identical Arguments for Enslavement00:03:14
You'll find some born person who also can't meet that litmus test for personhood.
So here's what pro-abortion arguments do: is that you put in place the premises that justify your own enslavement.
You put in place the premises that justify your own enslavement.
Lincoln, in preparing for his debates against Stephen Douglas, would pen a little piece of paper called Fragments on Slavery in 1854.
And he would use this type of reasoning in the 1858, 1859 famous Lincoln-Douglas debates.
So I want to show you how these arguments are identical because you separate the dignity of the person from the fact that they're humans, which means then the Sauchies and the Francis Collins, the elite class, the Margaret Sangers, they get to decide the litmus test for personhood.
So here's what, this is what Lincoln wrote.
It's brilliant.
He said, okay, he was pretending he was in a debate with a slavery supporter.
And Lincoln said, you say A is white and B is black.
It is color then.
The lighter having the right to enslave the darker.
Take care.
By this rule, you are to be a slave to the first man you meet with a skin fairer than your own.
Oops.
Putting in place the premises that justify your own enslavement.
But then Lincoln said, but you say it is intellect.
You say that whites are intellectually the superiors of blacks and therefore have the right to enslave them.
Take care again.
By this reasoning, you were to be a slave to the first man you meet with an intellect superior to your own.
But you say it is a question of interest, says Lincoln.
That if you can make it in your interest, you have the right to enslave another.
Very well.
And if he can make it in his interest, he has the right to enslave you.
Do you see what pro-slavery arguments were doing?
Rather than arguing that the black man was not a human, they were saying they're not persons because they can't currently exercise certain cognitive abilities or functions that I demand they show me in the present to meet my litmus test for personhood.
And so every argument that dehumanizes the unborn by saying they don't display this cognitive ability or function that I demand they meet can always be applied to some born person outside the womb who at some point in their life will also not be able to evident that very same cognitive ability or function.
So whether it was slavery arguments then or abortion arguments now, we put in place the premises that justify our own enslavement.
Those who murder the unborn therefore cannot be trusted to govern the born.
So the final D is degree of dependency, which is the one that most pro-lifers stumble over.
It's probably the best argument, if you will, where the fetus, the baby, the human being is dependent on another, therefore you should be able to eliminate that being.
But Seth, let's go a little deeper here, which is this really all is a moral argument.
Every argument around this comes down to some morality.
And absent the church or Christians weighing in on this topic, it is almost always going to yield in the pro-abortion direction because the secular world does not have any sort of moral standard to be able to argue abortion correctly.
Feelings vs Serving God00:11:55
It will always come back down to, well, it's whatever makes me feel the best, whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it.
When in Christianity, it's actually not really about your feelings or your desires.
It's about serving God and doing what he commands.
And so what is the morality that drives forward a million abortions a year in America?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, the enemy of our souls has no new stories.
He has no original ideas.
All Satan can do is invert and pervert and copycat.
And obviously, the rainbow is the greatest example of this in the culture wars today.
The rainbow, this sign that God's saying, I will never wipe you out by water again because of disgusting immorality that was normalized and celebrated.
And then the rainbow becomes the symbol of the same type of immorality that caused God's judgment in the first place.
So Satan can only invert and pervert.
And so, from a this, what Charlie's talking about, this detached morality that deifies ourselves into modern gods to decide who gets to live and who gets to die.
This is not progressive, this is regressive.
Child killing and child sacrifice goes right back to the years just following Adam and Eve.
This is a very ancient practice, the belief that in sacrificing an adult, a child, a baby to the sex gods, the war gods, the weather gods, the crop gods, the sun gods, right?
Means that you would receive a blessing in return and you would get to live just a little bit longer.
And you see this today in the secular moral revolutionary culture.
You have people that make arguments saying, Well, we need to fund abortions in poor countries, in black countries, because we have overpopulation and then too many people, it's harming the environment, Charlie, and that's causing climate change, which is making Witzela Pokeley, the Aztec sun god, really angry, right?
And I'm actually not joking.
At the time.
That's in California curriculum, by the way.
Yeah, the chance to the sun god.
Literally, chants to the Aztec sun god.
Yep, to Tisla Topoca.
And that's right.
Not a joke.
It was passed in the California Curriculum Committee.
We had videos of high school students from Tisla Topoca.
So when pastors say, Charlie, I don't preach against abortion because I don't preach on politics.
You know what I say?
No, you don't preach against false religion that masquerades as politics to keep the politically impotent pastor silent.
So we're contending not against an alternative politics, brothers and sisters, but against an alternative religion, the religion of secular progressivism and its sacrament or centerpiece of abortion.
Peter Kraft, the Catholic philosopher, once said that abortion is the demonic parody of the Eucharist.
That's why it uses the same holy words.
This is my body, but with the opposite blasphemous meaning.
So our Savior says at the Final Supper, This is my body, and I break it for you.
Take and eat in remembrance of me.
Not ironically, the culture of death says, This is my body, my choice, and I'll kill whatever's inside of my body because that serpent told me in Genesis 3: Eat the apple, do it my way, then your eyes shall be opened.
So Eve got woke, by the way.
You do need to know this.
It is the first woke story.
The serpent says, If you eat the apple, your eyes will be opened and you'll see real systems of systemic oppression because God's holding out on you.
He doesn't really want you to see.
Get woke, then ye shall be as gods.
And a God gets to decide who lives and who dies, don't they?
A God also gets to live forever.
Isn't that what makes a god a god?
They're eternal.
So you need to know this about Anthony Fauci, the high priest of secular progressivism in the last two years.
Fauci and Francis Collins, the disgraced NIH director, have approved funding to the University of Pittsburgh, where they kill babies in the early and late second trimester, some of those babies who were old enough to survive outside the womb.
Then they take them to another wing of the same hospital at the University of Pittsburgh, and they scalp their heads off, like the Aztecs would have.
By the way, Judicial Watch should expose all this.
I can show you the pictures.
Then they insert the scalps of late trimester aborted children on the backs of lab rats, and they call these humanized mice.
Then the rat grows the infant human hair that should have grown on the scalp of that baby had they not been aborted in the womb.
Could show you the pictures, and they use the humanized mice to find solutions to staph infections.
So, notice, guys, the baby just becomes a sacrifice on man's pursuit for eternal life.
And we do this with embryonic stem cell research, fetal organ harvesting, fetal tissue research, and recently prenatal gene editing, where they screw around and poke around with the genes of babies conceived in test tubes.
Because if you can edit the genes and get rid of things we don't like in the gene code, Margaret Sanger, eugenics, yes, then we can apply it on ourselves later when it's safe.
God forbid my rights are compromised.
And we'll edit out of our genes certain susceptibilities to diseases so we can live just a little bit longer.
C.S. Lewis once said that everyone wants progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about turn and walking back to the right road.
In that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.
I want to shout out Choice's Pregnancy.
They do such a great job because I think that they do such a great job.
And I'm doing this before we get into the super controversial stuff.
This has all just been surface-level stuff.
Because we're going to go into the stuff that even pro-lifers sometimes are uncomfortable talking about, which is how do you navigate rape, incest, life of the mother.
These are very serious questions, by the way, and I don't, you know, I don't expect complete agreement on every one of them because there's reasonable people can differ there on certain one of them.
I certainly have my opinions, and Seth, I think we're in total alignment there.
The second thing, as you were talking about, you know, the Catholic issue, I just want to say that the Catholic community here in Phoenix is some of the great pro-life warriors in Arizona.
They really deserve a lot of credit, and I think it's very important to mention that.
So, anyway, and I think you've seen the same, right, Seth, in pro-life circles.
Okay, so let's just, there's been a lot of, let's just say, advertisements run in the state on rape, incest, life of the mother.
Let's talk the facts.
How often is abortion medically necessary to save the life of a mother?
Right, good question.
Thank you, Charlie.
It actually never is.
And I meet pro-lifers a lot of the time who actually parrot the pro-abortion talking points on this.
This actually may be, Charlie, the most successful propaganda weaving into the American conscious and pro-life consciousness from the other side that I've seen in recent memory, such that you have pro-life pastors saying, I oppose abortion except when the mother's going to die.
Here's the thing: in these super, super minority rare cases where if the pregnancy continues, mom will die, the solution is not abortion.
The solution is you induce early labor with Pitocin or you perform a cesarean section.
And guess what?
That's safer for mom than the abortion would be.
Now, what do we hear?
What do we hear all the time, Charlie?
No, Cecile Richards, the former president of Planned Parenthood, told me that abortion is as safe as taking Tylenol.
And I've been told, follow the science.
It's actually the safest medical procedure in modern medicine.
This is what we hear from the abortion industrial complex.
I could go into the moral argument.
Let me just cite Planned Parenthood for you.
How about that?
In a 1963 booklet that actually we have a scan of, so maybe I'll send it to Charlie sometime on the show.
In a 1963 Planned Parenthood booklet, they admitted what I just said.
They said, abortion ends the life of a baby after it has already begun.
And it is dangerous to your life and health.
Planned Parenthood said that in a 1963 booklet.
One year later, Mary Calderon, the medical director for Planned Parenthood, would leave Planned Parenthood and found the Sexuality Information Education Council of the United States with seed money from Hugh Hefner with a board member who ran the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University, the Alfred Kinsey demon degenerate rapist who interviewed pedophiles to get his data on the sexual activity of the American male.
Let me just say one thing about if you ever want to see how sick and how dark some of this stuff goes and you want to see who actually is the architect of the perversion of children, just read a little bit of Dr. Kinsey and Judith Reisman.
Yeah, he wrote a book in the 1920s called Sexuality and the Human Male.
That's exactly right.
And it is.
And Judith Reisman, who died a couple years ago, spent her life debunking the science of Alfred Kinsey.
Dr. Money was another one.
I'll just give you one quote from Dr. Kinsey, and I'm paraphrasing.
He said, the only abnormal sexual act for a child is one of which they can't perform.
Yeah.
Continuously.
Yeah, on table 34, table 34 of his book, he actually details the rape of children between 18 months old and 12 years old.
I only say this, that this guy is published and widely celebrated in education.
Indiana University just erected a new statue of Alfred Kinsey.
So anyways, let's say this.
Remember the tangent.
Remember that T-level sort of a mama bear papa bear speaking at school board meetings in the last two years?
What was that in response to?
Yes, critical race theory, but secondly, the pornographic sex it in the schools.
And when you start studying this stuff, all roads lead to Kinsey.
Anyways, I have a podcast called Unaborted with Seth Gruber because we're all unaborted.
And we've done stuff on Kinsey.
We've had experts on Kinsey on the show, so go check it out.
Anyway, so Planned Parenthood admits in 63, abortion is dangerous to the mother's life and health.
And then when Roe v. Wade got overturned.
Amen, by the way, total providential thing that happened, right?
We started hearing a lot of propaganda, shocker, from the true peddlers of misinformation, the abortion industrial complex.
And what were they saying?
They were saying, now in states where abortion is illegal or highly, highly restricted, women are not going to be able to get miscarriage treatments, and they're not going to be able to have a baby removed from the fallopian tube in an ectopic pregnancy.
And because they were arguing that that was technically the abortion surgical procedure.
And since abortion is now illegal in that state, pro-lifers are trying to force pregnant women to die.
And they're just going to have their babies rotting in their womb after a miscarriage.
Well, no, that's an ad they're running.
I'm sure you've seen that.
Yeah.
25 times an hour.
Yeah.
And so guess what?
Guess what Planned Parenthood did right after the overturning of Roe versus Wade?
They deleted a line from their website, but the internet's forever, so we found it.
They deleted a line from their website that said this, verbatim.
It said, treatment for ectopic pregnancy is fundamentally different than treatment for abortion.
Because they were like, oh, gosh, all the pro-lifers might learn that we're actually lying and we need to strike that line from our website, which is just a Joseph Goebbels attempt of misinformation and censoring your political opponents that we saw in the Third Reich in a conversation for another time.
So that's one of the lines.
That's actually a good segue before we get to questions here, Seth.
And you can see he's an endless reservoir of every, if you have ever encountered a pro-abortion, yeah, you should give it up for Seth.
I mean, it's every angle you can imagine.
Which it and I text Seth often because, again, I have to cover 500 issues, right?
And so I have to go wide, sometimes more than I would like to go deep.
But there's some issues I want to go deep on.
But even sometimes I get a question and it's like, I don't know the best way to answer that.
And Seth immediately texts back.
Sophie and Hans Scholl Resistance00:07:13
He's a great resource and he's got a great spirit.
But Seth, I want to close this portion before we get to questions here because I know we're going to get some good questions on the topic about your project, the White Rose Resistance.
What is the White Rose Resistance?
I think it's great education for us.
And then what should our goal be?
What should our telos be?
What should our purpose be on this topic?
What is the call to action specifically?
Tell us about your project, then we'll get to questions.
Yeah, amen.
Thank you, Charlie.
So the White Rose Resistance is a story of a bunch of young 20-somethings in the Third Reich.
Now, we all know the name Oscar Schindler, right?
And Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
But as I've been sharing this story with some high-profile figures, by the way, most people don't know the story.
And so we have some pictures here.
This is Sophie and Hans Scholl in this picture here.
But Sophie Scholl was a young 21-year-old young woman in Nazi Germany in 1942.
She had dreams of becoming a school teacher.
She had a deep and abiding faith.
She loved the Lord.
Her father actually spent some time in prison for publicly criticizing Hitler.
And she comes in Munich one day across a leaflet, a pamphlet on the sidewalk, and she picks it up and it says, Leaflets of the White Rose.
And she starts reading it, and it's explicitly condemning the crimes of the Nazis and asking the good people to wake up.
It would say things like, We are the White Rose Resistance, we are your bad conscience, and we will not leave you alone.
They would say things like, If you know, why do you not act?
Remember, this is 1942.
The Jews have been wearing the yellow star for about three years now, the final salute.
They're being burned already and poisoned in cans.
She starts reading it, she goes, Huh, this sounds a lot how my brother talks a lot of the time.
Come to find out, the White Rose Resistance had not only been launched, but was being co-run by none other than her older brother, Hans, at 24 years old.
Now, you can imagine Sophie's surprise, like, what the heck, bro?
Why didn't you tell me about this?
You're like really cool.
But you have to understand, at 24 years old, Hans was just trying to protect his little sister.
He knew that what he was doing would likely cost him his life.
It did.
Sophie demands to join the White Rose Resistance as the youngest and the only woman.
And for the rest of 1942, they stay up late writing, printing, and distributing anti-Nazi leaflets all around Germany.
It was the 1942 Third Reich version of a social media campaign.
Powerful, equipping information, condemning bad ideas, and asking the good people to wake up.
And they take things to the next level in 1943.
And on February 18th, 1943, Hans and Sophie, brother and sixth, walk onto the campus at the University of Munich during class time when the halls were quieter.
And they begin to drop off piles, hundreds of these anti-Nazi leaflets all around the university.
Now, you need to remember the universities, just like the clergy, had largely been dominated by the Nazi state.
Sophie, in this iconic brave scene, walks to the third floor balcony of the University of Munich and she throws an entire stack of leaflets down to the atrium below.
Now, what happens when you throw paper?
It goes everywhere.
The janitor, a committed Nazi, catches Sophie in the act, calls the Gestapo, and has him arrested on the spot.
They spend the next four days in prison being brutally interrogated and physically assaulted.
Because they were arrested that morning, they missed a meeting they were supposed to go to that afternoon on February 18th, 1943, with a man named Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who had been so inspired by their courage as such young resistance fighters.
And it was as if God would enter that cell room in Sophie and Hans's final four days, pick them up into his hands, and condense their entire 21 and 24 years into four days.
And they would speak with a level of conviction and clarity that was lost on the German pulpits.
So I want to share with you one of the things Sophie said because I think Sophie is speaking prophetically to us today.
They understood that Edmund Burke line that all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.
And so in her final days, Sophie would explain the problem as she saw it.
And remember, she's 21.
Here's what she said: The real damage is caused by all of those millions who just want to survive.
The honest men that just want to be left in peace.
Those who don't want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves.
Those with no sides and no causes.
Those who won't take measure of their own strength for fear of antagonizing their own weaknesses.
Those who don't like to make waves or enemies.
Those for whom freedom, honor, truth, and principle, it's just literature.
It's just words.
Those who live small die small.
It's the reductionistic approach to life.
If you keep it small, Christian, you'll keep it under control, right?
If you don't make any noise, the boogeyman won't find you.
But it's all an illusion because they die too.
Those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe.
Sophie would say, safe from what?
Life is always on the edge of death.
Narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues.
And a little candle burns itself out just like the flaming torch does.
I choose my own way to burn.
Who speaks like that at 21 years old?
That sounds like something Oscar Schindler or William Wilberforce or Dietrich Bonhoeffer would write, or Frederick Douglass or Harriet Tubman, or Martin Luther King Jr.
And she would say in her final moments before the Gestapo came to take her to the guillotine, she would say, How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there's hardly anyone willing to give themselves up individually to a righteous cause?
She would look out her window and say, Such a fine sunny day.
And I have to go now.
But what does my death matter if through us, thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action?
Her bravery so disturbed her prison guards that they relaxed the rules and let Hans and Sophie meet with their parents minutes before being taken to the chopping block.
And Sophie's mother would look at her doomed daughter and say, Remember Jesus, Sophie.
And Sophie would respond, Yes, but you too, Mama.
Her final words, according to the executioner, were, the sun still shines.
And Hans's final words were, Freedom.
They never saw the Christian army of resistance develop that they knew could bring a grinding halt to the Nazi regime.
So I'm rebuilding the White Rose Resistance for this generation against our silent but far more deadly Holocaust of abortion today to accomplish the goals that Hans and Sophie dreamed of but never saw realized.
And I'm promising you now, I'm a pain in the butt, a stick in the eye, and a fly in the ointment to the abortion industrial complex, the spirit of the age, and his obsession with wiping out the image of God from the earth.
Life Begins at Conception00:06:10
So if you want to connect with us about what we're building, check out the White Rose Resistance and thank you.
That's pretty amazing.
I encourage you all to get behind Seth's work there.
It's one of the most amazing stories of history that is never told.
Let's line up for some questions here.
Seth is just getting his organization started.
As soon as I sat down with Seth, I said, this thing could catch on like wildfire.
I could see pastors, I could see people at churches wearing the white rose.
People could amazingly, like, I'm part of it, you're part of it.
And by the way, the goal is very simple, to end abortion our lifetime.
That's right.
That's the goal.
Very simple.
Okay, guys, we want to get to as many questions as we can.
So please keep them as questions.
And I do want to stay on topic.
I know a lot of you might have political questions or not.
Let's just try to stay on topic, okay?
Let's go here.
Good evening.
In regards to abortion, how would you address someone who claims to be Christian, yet says that we won't truly know what God believes is right and wrong until Jesus comes back to earth?
What was the second half?
How would you address someone who claims to be Christian, yet says that we won't truly know what God believes is right and wrong until Jesus comes back to earth?
Yeah, so this is an interesting argument.
I think what you're getting at, we hear this a lot.
Have you ever heard a pastor or Christian say something like, I speak where the Bible speaks, and I'm silent where the Bible's silent?
Kind of to what she's saying.
How can we truly know what God thinks is right or wrong until he comes back?
So I'm just going to address what's in the scriptures.
It's actually one of the dumbest statements ever said by Christians.
Here's why.
There's plenty of things that our Savior does not condemn.
That doesn't mean that the scriptures condone those behaviors.
What are some examples?
Did you know the Bible doesn't forbid forced female circumcision?
Oh, Charlie, we can't address that from a biblical worldview because it's not in the scriptures.
Did you know that the Bible doesn't forbid the lynching of homosexuals like some Muslim countries do?
But guess what?
I can still know that's wrong because I'm grounded in a Christian worldview that says man and woman has dignity and value and rights because they're created in the image of their God who entered human history in a uterus.
So lots of Christians who say that, and I'll end with this, do not read the Bible, do not take it seriously and commit to eisegesis rather than exegesis.
Eisegesis is when you insert your priors into the scriptures or try to find ways that it confirms your priors.
Well said.
Yeah.
And if that person calls themselves a Christian, they should read their Bible more.
I mean, they don't know what God says is right or wrong.
Like, let's just read like a verse.
Okay.
By the way, if you guys in this part of the line want to go to that one, that one's shorter.
Vice versa, whatever.
Okay.
Get to our buddy right here from Dream City Christian, my man.
Oh, by the way, I'm speaking at Dream City Christian.
Check your high and students tomorrow, by the way.
How great is that?
So I just wanted to know, have you seen life, Mark?
You know what?
I have been traveling so much right now.
I have not seen it yet.
But Kurt Cameron and I are good friends.
And I was supposed to have him on my Instagram live yesterday, and Instagram decided and he could not join it for some reason.
But Kurt's a good friend.
I've heard wonderful things, and I encourage you guys to go see it.
It's going bonkers at the box office right now.
Thank you, man.
Thank you.
It's a wonderful story about adoption, which is the heart of the gospel.
Seth and Charlie, my name is Sloane Adams, and I'm actually from Austin, Texas.
Charlie, first off, I just wanted to say thank you for everything that you do as a watchman on the wall for our nation.
Amen.
And I personally wanted to say thank you because the Lord has actually helped use you to reawaken my love for our country and the biblical foundation upon which we're built.
With that said, I'm actually on staff at a church in Austin, and I have the honor and privilege of giving the message to our congregation on November 6th, the Sunday before the election.
I actually requested it.
So my question is, if either one of you were me and you had the ear of a congregation on that Sunday, what would you say?
Wow.
So what would I say?
Yeah, I would do an exegetical analysis of Zechariah.
No, it's.
Look, you got to lean in.
And I think you should be right off front.
Should say, listen, you know, this coming Tuesday is a big day for our nation because you're the Sunday before the Tuesday of the election, right?
And the Bible commands us to care about our nation.
Cite it biblically, right?
Jeremiah 29, 7.
Talk about Esther, Mordecai, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, all try to influence secular government for God's purpose.
And then talk about three things that everyone should be able to agree with and say, this is not political, it's biblical.
God created man and woman.
Life begins at conception.
And that churches are more important than strip clubs, and we're never going to allow the church to be locked down again.
And then you should just pause and say, I want every single person to have a fulfilled ballot.
I'm not going to tell you what party to vote for, but I am going to ask you to pray and to fast before you make that decision of which person has the set of policies, so vote for policies over people that would be most in alignment with the natural law and biblical truth.
And then I would give a call to action, which is, I don't want a single person not to fill out a ballot on Tuesday.
And whatever that leads you towards or to, then so be it.
But those three things are uncompromising.
It is no question of biological reality, when life begins, and the church's importance and how the government crushed the church over the last couple years.
And I just want to commend you and encourage you because where you're at right now is a posture of willingness, a posture of you're asking for help and curiosity.
And honestly, if every pastor in America gave a sermon as simple as that the Sunday before the election, righteousness would prevail.
God bless you, man.
That's beautiful.
Seriously.
Thank you.
Pregnancy Is Not a Condition00:15:10
Hi, can you explain more of how the abortion procedure works?
The abortion what?
Procedures.
I've seen like movies, like Christian movies about it, and it's really over.
I'm telling Seth not to be too graphic because I mean it.
It's just be general, Seth.
It's sick.
It really is.
Yeah.
So there are four primary different forms of abortion.
The most popular today, and it's accounting for 50% or more now, actually, of the abortions, is RU486.
That's the abortion pill.
By the way, just a quick little, let's see, 30, I'll use in 30 seconds, 35 seconds.
A history window into RU486.
This is the abortion pill.
What does RU stand for?
Roussell Ukloff.
What's Roussell Ukloff?
Roussel Ukloff's majority shareholder is Hookstey G. What's Hookstay G?
Hookstay G emerged from the breakup of the German chemical company known as IG Farben, a company infamous for creating a gas called Zyklon B used to poison Jews in Nazi concentration camps.
So Hookstay G simply moved from creating poison to kill Jews to creating poison to kill babies.
So when you hear people talk about the Nazi-esque eugenic demonic legacy of the abortion industrial complex, that's not embellishment, hyperbole.
That's the reality.
And the tour I'm doing right now that TP Faith is sponsoring is 70 minutes, 50 minutes of that entire eugenic legacy.
The abortion pill, with the first regimen of the abortion pill, cuts off the hormone progesterone, the lining of the uterus breaks down and the baby starved to death.
The second mifopristone and misoprostol.
Misoprostol forces your uterus to have contractions.
And Planned Parenthood will literally tell you, and we have multiple women who have confirmed this, sit on the toilet, don't look and flush.
So the American sewage system becomes the abortion industry's disposal system.
Then you have suction abortions, aspiration abortions, which just sucks limbs off.
Is that appropriate enough?
And then you have dismemberment abortions, and that's forceps.
That's clamping, that's tearing.
And when the white paste starts flowing, you know you got the baby's brains.
And then you have induction abortions.
And this is when a needle is inserted into the baby's skull or heart, injected with potassium chloride, which by the way is very similar, they use in on death row to kill inmates.
Isn't that interesting?
The baby goes into cardiac arrest, and then you deliver a dead child.
Yeah, and so I will say this: that's the PG version.
Yeah.
If anyone here or listening online is pro-abortion, I just challenge you to go learn as much as you can about it.
And if you remain pro-abortion after you really realize the medieval brutality of the procedure, then that's on you.
But I guarantee you, if 99% of pro-abortion people understood the horrific nature of that procedure, I think it would open a lot of eyes.
I asked Seth to water that down because he went.
Yeah, he went.
There's an R-rated version, which is the accurate version, by the way.
It's sick.
It really is.
Thank you for your question.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, sorry.
It's good.
Hi, Seth.
Hi, Charlie.
I'm a big fan of both of you.
I'm actually a graduate from Grand Canyon University, and I know you both have spoken at that university.
And Charlie, I know you're going to be speaking there pretty soon.
Monday.
So thank you both so much.
You are both such a big inspiration to me and to all of us here tonight.
So my question is: Seth, I loved how you debunked every single pro-abortion argument in the book.
The left has been using the same arguments for abortion for literally decades.
But one argument that I'm finding really hard to debunk is the argument of, you know, people say things like, oh, you're not pro-life.
You're just pro-birth.
You don't care about the baby after it's born.
You don't care what happens to it.
You don't care if it's fed or if it's clothed or if it grows up in a good home, yada, yada, yada.
Pretty good.
So, yeah, I know.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, you're just pro-birth.
Yeah.
So thank you.
So the argument goes like this.
You can't truly be pro-life and you haven't proven your pro-life convictions unless you're caring for all of the children not aborted.
So I have to somehow prove my moral position through more than standing against the killing of the babies in the womb, but through the adopting, the raising, or the financing of children already born.
If that's true, then I say then you, pro-abortion advocate, you cannot show the true courage of your pro-abortion convictions unless you're willing to abort the children.
Very interesting response.
Because let me tell you something, most people, after they start ripping arms and legs off, they're done.
They're done with that industry.
And by the way, this is why many, especially more conservative states, guess what?
They have a really hard time finding enough surgical abortionists because a lot of people don't want to do that work, right?
So, and then the other part of the answer would be this.
All that is required to be truly pro-life is to live and act as if abortion is wrong.
The pro-life movement already has a massive task on their shoulders to end the greatest genocide in human history.
And the pro-life movement and pro-life organizations are largely underfunded and understaffed.
And then we're told with that huge job description that you're not even pro-life unless you're adopting all the babies.
Your pro-life ethic is debunked unless I can see how many children you adopted and children you're fostering, right?
Imagine saying that you can't oppose me beating my wife, which I don't do, unless you're willing to marry her.
Let's assume I'm a child-abusing degenerate father.
And then I say, you, church, can't oppose me beating my toddler unless you're willing to adopt him.
And you would say, I'm not going to adopt your kid, but like, stop beating him.
And your anti-toddler torturing position would still be valid, even if you weren't adopting the toddlers being beaten.
Does that make sense?
So why should it be any different on the abortion issue?
We have other organizations better situated.
Oh, and by the way, better funded for foster care, for adoption, for these various things than telling the pro-life movement, who has an overwhelming job description, that they have to do more than try to end abortion for their pro-life ethic to be valid.
But the Christian worldview is broad and comprehensive.
It demands that we love and care for all neighbors.
But that doesn't mean that the operational objectives of the pro-life movement must be diverted to other social causes for our pro-life ethic to be valid.
Yeah, and I also get that question a lot, and I reject the premise.
I mean, every single policy that I believe in is a pro-life policy.
I want a southern border so children aren't sex trafficked into my country.
That's a pro-life position.
I want more cops on the streets so people aren't slain on the side of the street going to school.
I want school choice so that children can read and not be taught critical race theory or pornographic material.
I want medical mutilation to be outlawed because I don't think a 13-year-old should have to go into a surgical room because some pharmaceutical company will benefit from it.
I want a booming economy because it lifts people out of poverty and gives them dignity and a chance to flourish and not be on government handouts.
Every position I have is a pro-life position.
I'm not just pro-life.
I'm not pro-birth.
I'm pro-life in every capacity.
And so.
And don't let people who slaughter unborn children at the tune of a million a year pontificate about morality.
You reject the premise.
You're the pro-life position.
You're the children in the womb through all nine months of pregnancy.
And you have the gall to judge me from a moral framework.
Yeah, they lecture me because they say, you don't want as many government benefits as I want.
Therefore, you're not pro-life.
Maybe I don't want those government benefits because I think that God has a better future in store for you than just staying on taxpayer subsidy and being having to be subsidized the rest of your life.
So I always punch back twice as hard on that.
I believe everyone here has a heart for all people made in the image of God.
And we believe a free society is the best way for those people to flourish.
Thank you, man.
First of all, thank you guys both for being here.
I just wanted to ask: as far as the super, super rare when it comes to the mother's health, I was tricked by that as well.
And I kind of held that point of view.
If it was the mother's health, I couldn't force it if I were to have a wife.
And it came with her, I would plead with her to give her life for the baby.
But can you elaborate on the science about inducing early labor and a mother's health and when that all comes into play?
Yeah, so there's been a lot of studies on abortions link to negative consequences for the mother: preterm labor and subsequent pregnancies, breast cancer, and mental health.
But what you'll hear the pro-abortion side say is that there are no negative consequences for mom's health following an abortion.
I don't have time to get into all the data.
My friend Dr. Brent Bowles, kind of my in-house OBGYN on my podcast, Unaborted, we did a podcast, if you scroll down on my podcast, Unaborted, called Proof that Abortion is Linked to Breast Cancer, Preterm Labor, and Mental Health.
And basically, he goes through every study in existence.
He's very informed, OBGYN, that ever looked at the link between abortion and breast cancer, abortion, and preterm labor, abortion, and mental health.
It comes down to this: the abortion industry hones in on the two or three studies of about 70 or 80 that showed that there was no negative consequence.
And then they ran that as the CNN, Chirons, and headlines.
It gets repeated in academia and medicinal circles, and then the CDC and ACOG, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, they run with it and they say, debunked, follow the science.
Okay.
But with Roe versus Wade and Doe versus Bolton, the two Supreme Court decisions in 1973 that legalized abortion through point of birth, they said that states could ban abortion in the third trimester unless a failure to get a third trimester abortion endangered the mother's life or health.
And then they defined health so broadly you could drive a Mac truck through it.
So, then in a 1981 congressional subcommittee hearing, they were forced to define what they meant by the word health.
And they said health can refer to familial, emotional, basically anything that you wanted to define it as to justify that third trimester.
What does emotional health mean?
What does familial health mean?
Does that mean you got in a fight with your husband and it kind of made you a little stressed out?
No, no blows were thrown, it was just some yelling.
And so now I need an abortion.
Yeah, that.
And guess who gets to define whether the mother's definition of health is the appropriate legal definition to meet the standard for a third trimester abortion?
The abortionist.
Oh, I'm sure he has no financial incentive to adopt her definition of health because guess which abortions pay the best?
Late-term abortions.
So that's a little bit about how they've used health to basically ramrod through abortion through point of birth.
But yeah, if you look at the studies, the breadth of the studies shows an overwhelming link of negative health consequences for the mother following the abortion.
Yeah, and finally, I also want to make sure we're all clear on the 99% of all abortions are done electively and are done for convenience, socioeconomic, socioeconomic reasons, according to the pro-abortion Gutmacher Institute.
We're talking about such a fraction of a fraction that are rape, incest, and even less so of even if you're able to get to that definition of life of the mother.
And so I always flip it.
Whenever this comes up, I always flip it.
And I say, let's not get too drawn into theoretics or abstractions.
Do you think that the 99% that's just at a socioeconomic is wrong?
And they'll never admit that.
It's never about that.
Just tell them if I give you rape and incest and life of the mother for a second, will you join me to fight to end the 98% of all other abortions?
And they always say no.
To which I say, then why are you hiding behind rape victims to make yourself look more compassionate?
Because they can't debate on anything else.
Thank you for being here.
I'm going to get to as many questions as we can.
Hi.
So this question is a little similar to one that was asked already, but I find myself continuously running into this when talking to people who are pro-abortion.
So I'm just curious to know what you would say to someone who says that they have no other option but to abort their baby because they can't financially support it, support a child, and they don't want to contribute to overcrowded orphanages.
Oh, wow.
Crowded ones.
Orphanages.
Or foster care.
Yeah.
So pregnancy resource centers outnumber abortion centers in this country more than two to one.
You need to know that, first of all.
Most people don't know what a pregnancy resource center is.
And we have some politicians who say that they torture pregnant women and that they hate women and that they're the peddlers of misinformation.
It's very interesting.
So some politicians wrote a letter to Google recently, Charlie, saying, You need to make sure that those nasty pregnancy centers that torture pregnant women that their results don't show up on Google.
And Google is going along with that right now.
Last year, Google made sure that pro-lifers couldn't promote ad spend for the abortion pill reversal.
Remember, I talked to you about RU486.
Well, the abortion pill reversal is just progesterone, so it gives her more of what the abortion pill was breaking down to help save the pregnancy.
And they're saying that the abortion pill reversal is dangerous to women.
And now they're saying pregnancy resource centers are the peddlers of misinformation.
Misinformation.
You mean when I go to Planned Parenthood's website and I try to find out what a suction abortion is, and it says that it gently suctions out the pregnancy?
The pregnancy tissue, pregnancy tissue.
Guys, there's no such thing as pregnancy tissue.
Pregnancy is not a thing, it's a condition.
Conditions don't have pregnancy.
Conditions don't have tissue.
So if you're pregnant, what are you pregnant with?
Well, if you're a human being, you're pregnant with another human being.
So that's human tissue.
And these are the people lecturing us on the peddling of misinformation.
Okay, so there are those pregnancy resource centers that are heroes, and we have some represented here tonight from Choices, they outnumber abortion centers more than two to one.
And they provide almost all of the same services that Planned Parenthood does, minus the baby butchery part.
And they do it all for free.
The Catholic Church is kind of big on charity and hospitals and loving the poor and orphanages and foster care, if you don't know that.
It's actually the most charitable religious institution in the United States of America.
There are plenty of ministries well situated to provide care for women who need help.
And the church ought to be the ones on the front lines, making sure that we're not prostituting our spiritual obligation to pregnancy centers and letting them do it while we make ourselves feel really good, but actually getting involved, being the hands and feet of Jesus to women who are hurting and need help.
Yeah.
So two things I'll say.
One that I think we'll all agree with, and the second one that you might agree with.
The first one is that now that Roe versus Wade is repealed, the church has to step up.
Dream City has done this and have a no-excuse policy of anybody who's pregnant, you know, unexpectedly in the community that will receive help and love and acceptance with all of that, regardless of circumstances.
And I've been really, really thrilled with Dream City in particular at how action-oriented they've been to really lean in on this.
That's number one.
Removing God Causes Bad Things00:08:52
But number two, and again, I'm not saying you should ever get preachy, but that's an awful argument that person made, which is who the heck cares about your feelings?
There's another being involved here.
It's completely irrelevant about your own perspective.
You think the termination of a being is going to be best for them?
Death is not the best for an individual.
That's not your call to make.
And again, this goes to a deeper kind of, you know, let's just say, theme that I've been on on our podcast, which is this kind of narcissistic ideology.
That's not the right way to put it.
Yeah, narcissistic philosophy that has invaded mostly our schools, which it's all about you.
By the way, this is why we have the most depressed, suicidal, medicated, alcohol-addicted, drug-addicted, and psychiatric drug-taking generation in history, because they're so focused on themselves and they're not focused on serving other people.
And more important, serving God.
Like, just think about yourself a little less for the next 30 minutes.
It actually creates very miserable people.
And so, without getting harsh about it, it's not always about you.
It's about serving other people.
Anyway, that's a tougher argument.
And by the way, we're not saying it's popular.
What she's saying about, oh, they're going to have a hard life in foster care and orphanage.
So what?
Lynch them now?
I mean, what in the world?
So you need to understand that is the eugenic philosophical tradition of Margaret Sanger and Margaret.
And Margaret Sanger was influenced by the Neo-Malthusians, Thomas Malthus.
Thomas Malthus said, we need to abolish private charities and let the poor and the physically afflicted just perish because the gene pool and bad genes and people we don't like.
And then that's the philosophy that influenced Hitler.
Margaret Sanger had a board member named Lothrop Stoddard, who was a high official of the Massachusetts Ku Klux Klan, who wrote a book called The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy, who wrote a book called The Rise of the Underman.
And Adolf Hitler's director of genetic sterilization, Alfred Rosenberg, appropriated the German term Untermensch from the English version of Margaret Sanger's board member's book, Untermensch, meaning subhuman, the Jews, eugenics, we don't want them to live.
That's the eugenic, Nazi-esque tradition that they're espousing when they say they're going to have a rough life.
And we, as the high priests of secular progressivism, we get to decide what level of suffering is appropriate and whether we'll let you live or not.
And the last thing I'll say, this is what happens.
If you don't believe a human being has a soul, then why not dispose of them?
They're not useful to your aims and ambitions.
As soon as you believe human beings have a soul, everything changes.
You remove God, really bad things start to happen.
Two more questions.
Next one.
Hi.
I volunteer at Choice's Pregnancy Center, so I see women every week.
Awesome.
Thank you for doing that.
I feel like, I love it.
It's a soul blessing.
But I feel like women now acknowledge it's a baby, but they still say that they have the right to kill it.
So, what is your advice?
Yeah, welcome to humanism.
Yeah, Francis Schaefer once defined humanism as placing man at the center of all things and making him the measure of all things.
You displace God in Christianity.
You can justify anything.
Let's complete the circle, Charlie.
Abolition of man.
Charlie said it at the beginning of the night.
Written in 1944.
What did he mean by the abolition of man?
Well, C.S. Lewis said the head rules the belly through the chest.
So the head is the intellect, the rational man, rules the belly.
The belly represents raw appetite, the animalistic desires, base appetites.
So what's the chest?
Virtue, honor, and morality.
So if the head rules the belly through the chest, then intellect rules raw animal appetite through virtue and honor.
So what's the abolition of man?
Men without chests.
So C.S. Lewis would say, such is the tragic comedy of our situation.
We continue to clamor for those very qualities we are rendering impossible.
In a sort of ghastly simplicity, we remove the organ and demand the function.
We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise.
We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.
We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.
If you remove the chest, you can justify anything, even genocide, even Holocaust, even killing.
Humanism has been the bloodiest, most deadly religion we have ever seen.
And Margaret Sanger's body count is greater than Mao's, Stalin's, and Mussolini's combined.
More human beings were murdered in the 20th century than all of the tyrants and homicidal maniacs of the entire world history before the 20th century, thanks to humanism.
So the acknowledgement that the victim is a human, but it doesn't matter, is nothing new.
It's very ancient.
So when we as Christians refuse to contend against that alternative religion, we're refusing to fulfill the role God gave us to love neighbors, to hold back those staggering towards slaughter, and to expose the deeds of darkness because we're not demanding our rights.
We're exercising our responsibility.
There's not much I can add to that, but I will say just a C.S. Lewis quote: you only know a line is crooked if you have a straight line to compare it to.
And that straight line is God.
It's the Bible.
It's why we're all here tonight.
And this is why I'm so animated towards preachers and pastors that do nothing.
It's a very simple question.
What is a human being?
It's the most simple yet important question when it comes to abortion.
If a human being is a result of a multi-million year accident, then yeah, sure, wipe them out.
If it's just evolution and you roll the dice and we happen to get reason and intellect and consciousness and sight and hearing, there's nothing special about it.
But again, if a human being is a speaking being, in the beginning was the word, the word was God, the word was with God, logos, the two creation stories in Genesis and John, saying the same thing differently, God spoke into existence, we're image bearers of that being, then all of a sudden, that baby, we do not have a moral right to be able to eliminate that being.
Everything changes.
And so Seth is spot on.
Humanism makes you feel good.
It puts you at the center of all things.
But actually, deep down, they're the most depressed, miserable, and angry people.
And how do they invoke their wrath by killing other people?
Because they're not happy just being miserable themselves.
They have to make you miserable.
And they won't stop with the unborn, by the way.
Last question.
That's right.
I got pregnant at 18 and I walked into my church knowing I was choosing life and I wanted to raise my children.
You walked into your church and what?
I knew I was choosing life and I was going to raise my child.
And my church told me I had to give the baby up for adoption or I would ruin my life.
And I'm just wondering if even if the church seems to be like anti-abortion and they seem like they're doing everything right, could they still be part of the problem?
Oh, absolutely.
Yes, absolutely.
Wonderful.
Thank you for sharing your story.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, no, I mean, listen, thanks to, by the way, thanks to people like Charlie Kirk, my pastor Rob McCoy, and Jack Hibbs.
I've probably spoken in more pulpits in America in the last two years than any pro-life speaker in the world.
And so I just want to say that I meet these churches and pastors, and God is raising some of them up, but it's still not enough.
So many churches will pay lip service to the pro-life movement and to the dignity of life in the womb, but not do anything to contend for the life of that unborn child.
So if you can't get the family right, you're going to get everything else wrong.
That's the fundamental building block of society.
It's how God chooses to build societies and bring the gospel to a broken people.
And so I'm so sorry to hear that.
I'm so sorry that a church told you you would ruin your life if you chose to mother your child.
That is not a biblical model.
That is not a Christian message.
And that's why we need people like Charlie and Dream City Church to lead courageously because while cowardice is contagious, so is courage.
And we love you and we champion you.
Amen.
Thank you.
So that is a good segue to our close here, which is we have a lot of work to do.
I've said for I'm 100% pro-life and I'm proud of it, but I think there's a lot of people that say they're pro-life, but are not as pro-life as they claim.
Part of it's okay, part of it's confusion.
That's why his message is so important: to lean in to understand the issue with clarity and with wisdom.
And so, Seth, you have a table out there where people can meet you and support you, right?
Yes, I'll be back there.
All right, White Rose Resistance.
Give it up one more time for Seth Gruber, everybody.
And we'll see you guys November 2nd, right?
With Jensen Franklin and Pete Hegseth for the last Freedom Night of the Year.
Let's pack this whole thing up.
God bless you guys.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email me your thoughts as always.
Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening.
God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.