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Sept. 7, 2022 - The Charlie Kirk Show
35:00
Why MAGA Must Embrace Machiavelli In Order to WIN
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Time Text
Make the Left Fear Us 00:14:44
Hey everybody, today the Charlie Kirk show.
What can Machiavelli teach the conservative movement?
I would love your thoughts.
Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.
And also, we have Nigel Farage to give us an update of what's going on in Europe and the United Kingdom.
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Machiavelli wrote, It is much safer to be feared than loved because love is preserved by the link of obligation, which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage.
But fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.
What we're about to talk about here is an uncomfortable truth for many conservatives.
It's something that many people do not like to say out loud, which is only one side is playing ball right now.
We're playing ping pong, and the left is playing rugby.
They're playing for keeps.
We're playing checkers.
They're playing chess.
Last night, there was an announcement from Washington Post that they are going to indict Steve Bannon for the very same charges that he was pardoned for a couple years ago.
So they raid James O'Keefe's apartment.
They raid Rudy Giuliani's apartment.
They go after a diary.
Why is that the FBI's business?
They raid Mar-a-Lago.
They indict Peter Navarro.
They've indicted and convicted Steve Bannon for different charges.
They go after Roger Stone.
They go after Michael Flynn.
They go after Dinesh D'Souza.
When are we going to wake up and realize that only one side is using political power in this country?
This will not change with outrage.
It won't.
It won't change with op-eds and us saying, we need to reform the FBI.
We need to have a discussion about this.
This only changes when the left starts to fear that they will be in handcuffs for their crimes.
Let me be very clear.
I don't think we should do what the Democrats are doing, where they say, show me the man, I'll show you the crime.
This is how they do it.
This is how corrupt these people are because all they care about is power.
Their Bible is the Prince by Machiavelli.
It is their gospel.
It is their North Star.
If you are not familiar with The Prince by Machiavelli, go pick up a copy and read it.
Study it.
You want to know where the left gets their game plan from?
Machiavelli was the beginning of the Enlightenment, the beginning of modernity.
He said, oh, let's get away with all this Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine guys, all these ideas of biblical principles.
We know what we want.
Why don't we just go get it?
That is the best way to sum up Machiavelli.
We know what we want.
Why don't we just go get it?
That's the best summary of Machiavelli.
We need to break ourselves of the shackles of antiquity, of all this kind of moral restraint and wisdom and checks and balances and separation of powers and all these things.
Let's just go get what we want.
Machiavelli wrote, and he was actually a counselor to the king of warring Italian families.
He wrote, since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is safer to be feared than loved.
Machiavelli was actually counseling warring families in Italy.
How do you take political power?
How are you in charge?
And it has now seeped down to the modus operandi of the entire American left.
So here's the way it works: they're going to keep on indicting people, Steve Bannon, they're going to try to kick people off the chessboard.
They're going to pick us off one by one.
And yes, I say us.
They're going to come after every organization, every single person, until we get a Republican Party, until we get Republican attorney generals, yes, on the state level, to actually start to play ball.
They have to fear that there is an equal and opposite reaction when they start to go after people that have done nothing wrong.
And I'm not even getting into whether or not Steve Bannon did something wrong or not.
I don't know.
I didn't look in the details.
I don't care.
What I do know is that you show me the man, I'll show you the crime.
And the more laws, the less justice, as Cicero would say.
The more voluminous the laws, the less justice there will be, as James Madison would say.
So where we are in America today is a power struggle.
Conservatives don't like hearing this.
You see, when you go to most conservative circles, they say, well, what we need is we're going to win by better arguments.
We're going to win with a debate and a dialogue and a discussion.
I wish that was the case.
I yearn for that America.
I wish for that America.
I pray for that America.
But I'm also not going to live under the delusions of grandeur that somehow we're all in a coffee shop and we get along.
How many more conservatives do they have to indict?
How many more America First Nationalist patriots do they have to go after before we realize what time is it?
What time is it?
They do this for sport.
This is not Ronald Reagan's America anymore.
So you might say, well, Charlie, what is the response?
What is the game plan?
We said this a couple weeks ago on the program because we predicted all of these actions.
We predicted this movement because we know the left.
We've read the Prince.
We deal with the left every single day.
We said Republican attorney generals have to start indicting the criminals on the left.
You might say, well, what criminals are they?
Good one.
Yeah.
Show me a leftist.
Any one of them.
Hunter Biden.
How many Republican state attorney generals have open probes into the crimes of Hunter Biden?
Like the Republican Attorney General of Arkansas?
How about has any Republican attorney general indicted anyone from BLM for the rioting, for the movement of people across state lines, for the lying to donors?
You know, that's why they're indicting Steve Bannon, by the way.
They're indicting Steve Bannon allegedly for lying to donors about some build the wall campaign.
Very bizarre indictment.
Okay, how many shady left-wing organizations are doing activities like that?
Have Republican attorney generals done any of it?
You see, all the left understands, all the collectivists understand is not debate, it's not dialogue, it's not a discussion of ideas, it's not a marketplace of principles.
No, it's none of that stuff.
That country is over everybody.
It is power.
They will not stop.
They will come to your door with an IRS agent.
But if they realize there's a cost to doing insane things, if they realize there's a cost to doing something that is extraordinary, then they're going to start to back off.
That's the only way you deal with these people.
And by the way, I'm not calling for something that is out of the rules of ordinary.
I'm just calling a Republican attorney general to have the courage to go indict the darling of the left, one of the people in the orbit of BLM that so obviously broke one state law in some red state when that one guy paid himself $10 million in consulting fees.
I mean, the things that are coming out against BLM is extraordinary.
So, okay, they indict Steve Bannon for allegedly scamming people on some build the wall scheme, which is just such a beyond shaky argument, beyond fragile.
And we do nothing when BLM raises somewhere between $80 to $100 million in just one organization and they start paying baby mamas and all sorts of people and brothers and security firms.
Activists accuse BLM Foundation leader of siphoning $10 million in donations.
Lawsuit says.
Black Lives Matter, quote, on-the-ground activism organization is suing the BLM Global Network Foundation.
Why is it Republican attorney generals then find this out?
Why do you have to have the black, the BLM groups all suing each other?
Where are the Republican attorney generals doing this?
They're not playing ball, guys.
I'm sorry.
You're just not.
And I know a lot of these AGs, and I've been asking them, are you looking at this?
Oh, well, we can't talk about ongoing investigation.
Waste of time.
You're leaving the conservative movement on an island to get picked off one by one.
Can we have some air support so the criminals on the left can start to go to jail?
The BLM Global Network leader, Shalamaya Bowers, is accused of siphoning $10 million from a fund meant to support BLM organizing.
So Shalamaya is being accused by other BLM leaders of siphoning $10 million.
The lawsuit represents another high-profile display of infighting at the organization that led to the BLM movement in 2020.
They're suing themselves, and we can't bring our side to indict them or investigate them for this stuff.
No, but they have civil lawsuits.
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They are trying to disassemble the MAGA movement, take apart the entire movement piece by piece, bit by bit, through these sorts of petty indictments.
Indict Bannon in New York, keep Navarro off the sidelines.
We go and raid James O'Keefe's apartment.
We go raid Rudy Giuliani's apartment.
Meanwhile, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Andy McCabe, Lisa Page, Bruce and Nelly or Mark Elias, all of them continue to get cable television contributorships.
They do whatever they want.
BLM untouched.
So BLM, not to mention Hillary Clinton, obviously, and all these other people.
BLM is currently in the middle of a lawsuit amongst members, alleging that $10 million was siphoned away.
You think that would be something pretty important for Republican attorney generals to look into?
Now, I know some Republican attorney generals are suing civilly.
No, no, we need criminal subpoenas immediately.
Do you think that they're suing Steve Bannon civilly in New York?
Now, again, the way I'm talking, a lot of conservatives don't like this, and I want your thoughts: freedom at charliekirk.com.
Conservatives don't like talking about this because they get really anxious and they get uneasy, right, Connor?
They're like, I need to go take a shower.
I don't like this.
You know why?
Because we're talking about the use of political power.
This is why Churchill and Lincoln are two North stars for us.
Churchill, we have a picture of Churchill right here, and we got Lincoln.
I don't think we have Lincoln up.
We should.
Churchill did not love using political power, but he knew it was necessary at a certain time to defeat a greater political power at the time.
Same with Lincoln.
It is an uncomfortable truth that some conservatives do not like admitting, which is your moral grandstanding gets you nowhere when you are up against evil.
Stop lecturing me about how you're going to take, we're going to take the high road.
What is the high road?
To be a coward?
Where's justice?
Are you going to investigate the crimes of the opposition?
Or are you going to act as if I'm an attorney?
I'm the AG of the state, otherwise known as the aspiring governor.
And of course, there's some great attorney generals.
Ken Paxton is great.
Jeff Landry in Louisiana is great.
But why are they not indicting left-wing criminals?
Where is the action?
Where does the rubber meet the road?
And by the way, this is only stuff that we know publicly available.
Could you imagine the crimes that would be revealed with proper investigations?
Well, this makes me very uncomfortable, Charlie.
I don't know if I like this.
It makes me very uncomfortable.
I don't know if I like to admit.
How many more people do they have to go investigate, go and prosecute and indict?
Where's the line?
And by the way, a lot of conservatives are going to remain quiet on the Steve Bannon indictment because a lot of establishment Republicans hate Steve Bannon.
They hate the power that the war room has.
They hate the power that they have there.
Same thing that they're going to do with Navarro.
They don't like Peter Navarro, so they just kind of throw him away.
And these people know nothing of the power of the Leviathan.
There's a phenomenal book by Arthur Kessler called Darkness at Noon, where it talks about a party official by the name of Rubyshov, who was actually one of the architects of the Stalinist-type state.
And the whole book is about how the very same party that he helped create, the very same regime that he helped put together, then go indicts him, raids his apartment, and puts him on a show trial.
Use Our Existing Power 00:03:07
Be very careful thinking you are exempt from all of this.
Be very careful thinking that, oh, yeah, you know, they're not going to come for me.
When they indict Donald Trump, is that going to wake people up?
Where's the crossing of your Rubicon?
We said it as soon as they did the Mar-a-Lago raid.
We said, wake up, everybody.
It's happening.
So now they're going after Steve Bannon.
Who's next?
Who's going to be next on their list?
And they will not stop until there's an equal and opposite reaction.
There is no other way.
I've heard every other option.
You know, I sit down with some of these leaders.
I say, well, what's the solution?
And they say, well, we have to win in November.
Oh, I totally agree.
Win in November.
No, what's going to stop them from using the Department of Justice as their personal vendetta operation against political opponents they don't like?
And they say, well, you know, just kind of, we got to win over Congress.
Oh, right.
Got to win over Congress.
I agree with all of that.
How about we use political power that we already have to make them fear us?
Go read their Bible, The Prince.
It says it very clearly.
You know what the problem with Republicans are?
One of the problems?
We're trying to make Democrats love us.
And Machiavelli laughs at that proposition.
Machiavelli thinks that's foolish.
Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.
I want a conservative movement that is strong enough where the left fears us.
I do not seek the love of the left.
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Some people are asking to say, how can Steve Bannon be indicted for something that he was pardoned for?
This is the state of New York.
Donald Trump's pardon only applies to the Department of Justice.
Now, it could be a double jeopardy thing, but it's unclear whether or not a federal pardon applies to state crimes or state charges.
Energy Independence Matters 00:11:28
And precedent shows us that it does not.
But it'll have to be up for some judge to interpret that and the power of a presidential pardon when it comes to state crimes.
State crimes versus federal crimes.
Now, Paul Manafort, I think, was able to release himself from state charges recently under a presidential pardon, but it's because of this happened before Bannon went to trial that they might be able to re-indict him.
Details, not the most important part.
Most important thing is that they're trying to take every single one of us off the chessboard.
One of the great patriots of the West is with us right now, Nigel Farage, to discuss the new prime minister of the United Kingdom, of which I know nothing about, so he'll educate all of us.
Nigel, welcome back to the program.
Johnny, very good to see you.
And by the way, if you don't know anything about Liz Truss, you're not on your own.
The British public until a few weeks ago knew very little about her either.
She's been a cabinet minister for eight years, held a range of quite important jobs, but she's literally appeared out of left field.
This is now the fourth conservative prime minister in six years, which tells you two things.
Number one, the party is a complete shambles.
Number two, the British system needs modernizing and updating.
And, you know, let's see.
Today was her real debut in the House of Commons, the famous Prime Minister's Questions, which people all over the world watch.
It's a gladiatorial sporting contest.
I have to say, if I'm being honest, I was pleasantly surprised.
She defended the concept of low taxes, of hard work being rewarded.
She said we can't tax our way to growth.
And there was an echo in my mind from when I was in my mid-20s.
The last Conservative leader that spoke like that was Margaret Thatcher.
It could be, despite 12 years of so-called Conservative rule in Britain, truth is we've had 12 years of social democracy in Britain.
Maybe, inexperienced though she is, maybe we've finally actually got a Conservative that believes in free markets, believes in the profit motive.
It was, I think, to be fair, a good start.
So let me ask you, Nigel, in America, we call the insidious forces the deep state or the shadow government.
I believe the United Kingdom has something very similar, the kind of the inner workings of the bureaucracy.
Let's say that, you know, this new prime minister has the heart of Thatcher and the wisdom of Churchill and wants to really bring Britain back to greatness.
Is that possible given the inner workings of the bureaucracy?
How deep is the British deep state?
Yeah, we call it the blob, the blob, the bureaucracy that exists within Whitehall.
I mean, you can see as I speak to you, the parliamentary buildings behind me.
And behind that is the blob.
And their job is to make sure nothing changes.
Their job has been to frustrate Brexit for the last few years.
Their job is to work with the globalists.
I've got to tell you, if I walk, Charlie, if I walk past their offices, you've never heard such abuse in all your life.
So she will not just need wisdom.
She will not just need integrity.
She will need enormous courage to stand up and fight.
Boris Johnson, who was a great showman, often very entertaining, he didn't bother to fight.
Whenever he was challenged on anything, he just U-turned.
He just backed away from any challenge.
I can't promise you right now, this is going to be the next Margaret Thatcher.
All I can say is she's saying some of the right things.
And boy, she needs to.
Do not underestimate in America how much mess 12 years of Conservative government has put this country in.
We are on the edge of a financial precipice.
If we fall over it, confidence in this country will evaporate.
Foreign direct investment will dry up completely.
Interest rates will have to rise rapidly for us even to be able to get into the markets more government debt.
At the heart of this is a catastrophic energy policy.
You know, go green, go green, build some windmills.
Oh, that's good.
That'll all make us feel great.
Put big subsidies on the poor to transfer that to big wind turbine companies and Chinese blade manufacturers and wealthy landowners.
And then guess what happens?
When the wind doesn't blow, you ain't got no energy.
You need gas or other fossil fuels to back it up.
And now Mr. Putin, frankly, has Europe in the palm of his hand.
And Boris Johnson was the one above all.
Blair started it, but Boris led us to this green lunacy.
America is energy independent.
Under Trump, it became an energy exporter for the first time in, I think, nearly 100 years.
And that's the reason why the dollar is so strong against the Euro, against the pound, is that we have to import energy.
America doesn't.
And trust, you know, I want to see her say we're going to make this country energy independent within two years.
I haven't heard it yet, but I'm hopeful.
So where are the people right now in Britain?
Because you're totally right.
I mean, the United Kingdom should have one of the strongest economies in the world, but your numbers have been so lackluster recently, just because of ideological leadership, because of the lackluster decision-making from Boris Johnson.
I mean, behind America, the United Kingdom, the pound is one of the reserve currencies. of the planet.
It's always very stable.
I think for the first time, the dollar is more valuable than the pound, if I'm not mistaken.
I could be wrong.
I might be the Europe.
Yeah.
Yeah, the dollar is now more powerful than the Euro.
The Euro has slipped below paracy, but you know, with the dollar, you know, the pound is still stronger in relative terms than the dollar, but we're now at a 40-year low in the pound.
And that takes us back to when we had Marxist trade unions, miners on strike and everything else.
You know, we are headed back to the bad, dark cold days of the 70s and early 80s in our country unless we can turn this around.
And, you know, I think sometimes, Charlie, in our respective countries, we spend too much time blaming the left, too much time saying this is all their dastardly plan, when sometimes the truth is it's conservative cowardice that has led to this, that we bend.
Too often our movements, it's your rhinos, it's our remainers, but too often we bend in the face of this rather than standing firm for the principles that we know actually work and create wealth for ordinary people.
Socialism has never, ever, ever made people better off or wealthier.
It always fails.
And yet it seems we have to relearn that lesson every 20 or 30 years.
So can you kind of explain for our American audience that isn't as read into this, what's going on with European energy right now and what is the cause of that?
Because most Americans right now, I mean, we're experiencing some rolling blackouts and some energy problems, but nowhere near that in Europe.
What's going on?
What is going on is that the UK and Europe, none of us are energy independent.
We could be.
We've got vast coal reserves.
The UK has one of the biggest untapped gas fields in the world.
We've chosen not to do it because we're pursuing net zero carbon targets.
So rather than producing our own energy, we'd prefer to import it.
It makes our hands feel cleaner.
We allow our heavy manufacturing to go to India and China.
Again, it shows that our carbon emissions are down, even though the effect on global emissions is, of course, absolutely a zero sum game.
So Europe cannot keep the lights on.
The Germans cannot keep making cars unless we can import energy from elsewhere.
And Russia, Russia has been producing for Germany and for Italy about 40% of its gas needs.
And now Putin is slowly but surely turning off the taps.
In fact, I would argue, if you look at the Ukraine war, it is now more of an energy war than it is about territorial gain in the Ukraine.
I remember so well Donald Trump in 2018 addressing the UN General Assembly and saying the German delegation have made themselves too dependent on Russia.
And they all laughed at him.
Well, to use an old line of mine from the European Parliament, they're not laughing now because they got this completely utterly wrong.
And that, Charlie, that's where we are.
Literally, we have rationing now in state apartments in Germany, hot water only available for one hour a day in some of those places.
Build, which is the German tabloid big newspaper, said it wasn't even as bad as this after the British and Americans bombed our cities flat in 1940.
They were in better shape after Dresden.
That's hard to believe.
Yeah.
So, Nigel, to close out here, can you just reinforce, though, that this is being driven by ideology?
There is no practical or prudent reason to not explore energy and to explore zero emissions.
Can you talk about how dangerous an ideological regime is when they take power?
The World Economic Forum, the Green Energy Fund.
There are two points to make here.
I think two fundamental points.
The first is that whether you believe that carbon dioxide levels lead to global warming or not, of course, we all want to live in a cleaner environment.
We don't want nitrous oxide going into the air in vast positives.
But to brand carbon dioxide, without which life can't exist as a pollutant, strikes me as being rather odd and perverse.
And even if you believe that, it's China.
China built 80 new coal-fired power stations just last year.
Whatever we do, frankly, is irrelevant.
The second more fundamental point is this.
And this is where the conservative movement is, I believe, in both your country and mine.
We join at the hip on this.
Energy security.
Being a nation that is able to look after itself in times of uncertainty, in times of war, means we need to be, both of us, energy independent, food independent, and put our national interest above everything else.
There's a chap I know, he's a friend of yours too.
He called it America first.
And actually, you know what?
He's absolutely right.
That's exactly right.
It is a moral imperative to secure the needs of your own citizens before you start to do adventures abroad and all these insane ideological campaigns of people that, quite honestly, are going to be fine no matter what.
Secure Citizens Before Abroad 00:04:07
They'll have private jets, they'll have mansions, but it's the working people of both our countries that will suffer.
Nigel, thanks so much.
Deeply appreciate it.
Thanks, Charlie.
Hey, Charlie, hope you're well, sir.
Congratulations on the newborn.
Ron emailed us.
I agree with you that the gospel of the left is the prince.
Charlie, however, Jesus tells us to defeat evil with good.
Romans 12:21, do not be not overcome with evil, but overcome with good.
Overcome evil with good.
So that's Paul writing in Romans.
But that's, I'll take the argument.
It is the word of God.
Christians, even if they're involved in politics, do not take the Machiavellian route.
We take up our cross, the instrument of our execution, and follow our mentor, Jesus.
We bring righteousness to people who are wrong.
We bring courage to those who is cowardice.
We bring hope to the hopeless.
If we do those things, the power mongers on the left will fear us and run away.
So I guess my question, Ron, and he's writing from Canada.
I guess the question is: was it wrong for us to invade Normandy Beach?
Was it wrong for us to wage war in the Pacific after Pearl Harbor?
Was it wrong for Winston Churchill to countermove against the fights?
Should we have not responded with those military actions?
Now, the proper response will say, well, Charlie, that's a theater of war.
That's a theater.
And, you know, rules are different in a theater of war than they are.
And so I say, hold on a second.
Are we not in some form of metaphorical political struggle right now?
So when people say, Charlie, you know, we got to take the high road.
You know, I agree at that.
But how would you teach your kids about World War II?
Because to be consistent, you'd have to say that we made a mistake of fighting World War II.
That was not the high road.
Dresden was not the high road, everybody.
Battle of the Bulge was not the high road.
It was courageous.
It was right.
It was virtuous.
It was good.
But it wasn't like, hey, you know, we're just going to kind of, we're just going to let the bad guys run over us.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that, ever.
You know what it also says in the Bible?
If you love God, you must hate evil.
Something to think about.
Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Chuck says, Charlie, always been a fan.
Love your new show.
You, sir, are right on about everything you said today.
Why, why, why is it so hard for Republicans on the right to understand we need fighters, governors, senators, members of the House, school board members who will strike fear into the left before we hope to bring in any kind of our table.
And frankly, I don't want them at our table anyway.
And look, I said something briefly that I want to reinforce here, which is deep down in my private conversations with a lot of Republican politicians and a lot of conservative politicians, they deep down want to be loved by the left.
Conservatives at their best want to be feared by the left.
Not to fear the left, but have the left fear us.
You know who the left fears?
Ron DeSantis.
You know who the left fears?
Donald Trump.
You can see how they treat them.
Conservatives that get it get targeted across the board.
Ron DeSantis.
How about Tucker Carlson?
You think Tucker Carlson wants to be loved by the left?
That's why they hate him.
You know who else didn't want to be loved by the left, which is why they tried for 30 years to destroy him?
Rush Limbaugh.
Rush Limbaugh said, never try to get the media to like you.
Never try to get Democrats to like you.
Deep down, most Republican conservative media personalities or people that are kind of part of that whole cabal, they want to be loved.
It's better for the country if the left fears us than the left loves us.
There will only be one winner here.
And we're not going to win by just saying, stop it.
Please, hey, hey, stop indicting us.
Please.
Is that working?
Is that instilling confidence?
Is the left slowing down?
And you might say right now, oh, Charlie, come on, what is Michael Flynn, Roger Stone, Donald Trump, James O'Keefe, Frudi Giuliani, Dinesh D'Souza, Paul Manafort?
What does that have to do with Peter Navarro?
Pay to Defend Yourself 00:01:32
What does that have to do with me?
Come on.
I mean, well, first of all, they got 87,000 new IRS agents, so it's about to get very personal for all of you.
It's about to get right up in your face.
And you might say, well, Charlie, I pay all my taxes.
I'm a perfect citizen.
All right, enjoy defending yourself with legal fees for $35,000.
An average audit costs between $20,000 to $40,000 just to defend yourself in legal fees.
And no, for those of you keeping score at home, the government doesn't pay your legal fees.
You've got to pay to defend yourself.
Even if you paid every dime in taxes, you might have to pay tens of thousands of dollars just to be able to defend yourself against the robber barons of the Internal Revenue Service.
So come on, James O'Keefe getting raided.
Who cares if Steve Bannon goes to jail?
It doesn't impact me.
Well, it does.
But even if it didn't directly impact you, what an indictment of the lack of moral courage of people that are willing just to kind of turn the channel if they say, well, I just want to be comfortable.
The civilization is crumbling.
They know what they're doing because they're capitalizing on the great Machiavellian paradox.
They want to be feared and we want to be loved.
The moment we switch that and all of a sudden we want to be feared, we're going to start to win.
And that's how we start to take back the country.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email me your thoughts as always.
Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening.
God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.
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