Charlie welcomes Adam Korzenewski, former Trump treasury official and national security and military expert, to unpack the truth about Russian strengths and weaknesses. Charlie and Adam discuss some of the most critical questions surrounding Russia's invasion including: Is Russia really throwing its best shot at Ukraine or is it still holding back? Was it prudent to remove Russia from SWIFT? Why is Ukraine outperforming Russia in the propaganda war? Is Putin facing a legitimacy crisis back home at the hands of his billionaire oligarchs that help run the country? Finally, Charlie plays the tape back from Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney calling on "consequences" for American conservatives who they contend are "Putin Apologists." Charlie dismantles this narrative the left is attempting to propagate in order to divide the conservative base. While Putin remains universally hated, Charlie unpacks the deeper truth that goes beyond binary 'good vs. evil' movie plots the media so readily adopts about much more complex geopolitical realities. Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Former Treasury Official Joins00:01:57
Hey everybody, today's in the Charlie Kirk show.
We talked to a former Trump official about what's happening in Russia and Ukraine, economic sanctions, military movements, and more.
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With us right now is someone who can make hopefully some sense of what's going on here.
He's been following the Russia-Ukrainian conflict with some great wisdom.
He's a former Treasury official, high-ranking Treasury official in the Trump administration.
And I was also, I am also, a Claremont fellow with him.
We had some great time, some great times back last summer with the Claremont Institute.
It's Adam Korzynewski.
Adam, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Thank you for having me.
Russia's Legitimacy Crisis Looms00:06:57
Adam, what is really going on in Russia and Ukraine that the Western media is either missing or misreporting?
So there's a lot of confusion as to what's going on on the ground right now.
You know, there's a lot of questions of is the Ukrainian defense effective?
Is Russia not taking a lot of land?
Are the Russians effective?
And it's a little bit of everything right now.
Russia is taking ground.
Ukrainian defense is very strong.
However, things do still look bleak for the Ukrainians.
So I guess let me ask you just some very simple questions.
How is it that the Russians allegedly have the most sophisticated missile technology on the planet and Ukrainians still have access to the air?
Why is it that Ukrainian power is still on?
These are very simple questions that, you know, I'm not as, you know, I guess qualified to be able to answer, but they're just simple.
Why is this the case?
Does it seem like Russia is not giving everything they have towards this?
So I don't believe that Russia is not giving everything it has.
I think they're trying to stagger out supplies.
So recently Russia declared that they believe that they have air supremacy, and this is kind of forced the European Union to start talking about sending aircraft, selling aircraft to the Ukrainian government.
But, you know, what it suggests is that there's a industrial capacity limitation to the Russian military.
Russia's ability to produce missiles is greatly diminished since the Soviet Union era.
And this has kind of been the proof that's been proven with us that Russia has been kind of limited in its desire to launch its short-range ballistic missiles at things like airports and more relying on air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles.
But even with the surface-to-air missiles, they've not been effectively deployed.
And it really shows a definitive weakening of the Russian military since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
So that is your perspective then, that Russia is not as strong as they believe it is?
Because there's some debate amongst that, right?
There's some people on the right that say, no, no, no, there's a deeper plan here and Russia is actually super strong.
And I sympathize with that argument, by the way.
And so the internet is on, the lights are on.
So for example, if Russia wanted to win the propaganda war, why are they allowing the internet to still be on in a country they're invading?
It doesn't make any sense.
So there's a number of things going on here.
One is that they're looking to capture significant territory in Ukraine, right?
So they're trying to not destroy civilian infrastructure as much as possible.
So there's kind of asymmetry here.
And one of the key infrastructures that exists in the modern era is the internet.
So they're trying to not limit the ability to access certain information like by the civilian population, even though there is local blackouts because of artillery bombardment and things just getting accidentally cut.
But, you know, the Russians have settled into this thinking more so that they're not going to solve, they're not going to solve for knocking out the Ukrainian government in a few days, right?
We're more than 100 hours, I believe, since the launch of the campaign, and we're settling into a much more traditional war.
So Ukraine is about the size of France-ish.
Iraq was about the size of France-ish.
The 2003 Iraq invasion lasted about six weeks.
The Battle of France in 1940 lasted about six weeks.
And so it's going to be a much longer slog.
And Russia has to be deliberate about not overexpending munitions, especially even though they have a total equipment advantage over Russia or over Ukraine.
They still have to make sure that things last until the end of the conflict.
So if this is going to go on for six weeks, let's kind of shift to an area that you're also an expert in, which is the economic part of it.
The United States is slapping on sanctions.
Interest rates have skyrocketed.
You were an official in the U.S. Treasury Department under Trump.
How serious are the economic costs on Russia, and how will that impact what's actually happening on the front lines in Ukraine?
So just in perspective, two of the Russian oligarchs, so Russia is a state that's controlled by oligarchs.
You know, these are very wealthy, very corrupt, usually billionaires that kind of have an excessive say in politics at the national level in Russia.
Two of the oligarchs have already started clamoring for some sort of peace settlement because it's going to so severely diminish the industries that they're responsible for.
I believe there's some sort of energy product and another oligarch who controls aluminum.
And so, you know, you're already starting to see domestic pushes in the people who matter in terms of Russian decision-making asking for some sort of peace settlement.
And this is the thing, too, is this is going to be part, this is going to start causing a legitimacy crisis for Vladimir Putin.
Putin's on his last tour, basically, as president.
You know, he's onto the older side.
And, you know, there's questions of what, well, what's Russia doing with all, especially with these military blunders that they're going on.
Right.
And I think that, you know, at least I'm super confused by this whole thing because it's basically intentionally damaging and destroying his entire economy.
Is there something to the argument that there's a new kind of this Russia-China, let's say, backstop, right?
That this is like Putin's playing a different game than we are, that he knows he has Xi Jinping in his back pocket.
Do you find that there's credibility to that?
No, so it's a little bit more nuanced than that.
So Russia does not want to be a vassal state of China, right?
They have to play this game where they're relatively hostile to the Western powers, the United States, United Kingdom.
But they also are very keenly aware that China is the most, is a growing power and a growing threat to its own sovereignty in the long term.
And so this backstop of Xi Jinping is a Faustian deal, right?
Like it's literally, they're potentially going to become a proxy state of China if they're not careful.
And so, you know, this is why the United States has made so many diplomatic efforts prior to the initiation of the conflict to resolve this prior, because we don't want Russia and China becoming too close to each other.
And so right now, Russia is pinned in this position where they're going to have to make a decision as to where they're going to take this conflict and the stance that they have towards the West.
And it might end up for ruin for them and as well as their national sovereignty.
And so therefore, Putin's basically, he's acting as if he's on his own island.
So you understand the economics of this pretty well.
This seems like there's bank runs.
I mean, could there be a Russian economic collapse?
Defending Freedom and Hillsdale00:02:23
Is that in the cards?
It's possible.
So, you know, the Biden administration has not used the ultimate Trump card pun intended, which you brought up earlier in the show, which is the fuel, oil, right?
So one of the reasons why the Soviet Union collapse was basically a game of energy wars that the United States played from about 1979 to about basically 1986, which is, you know, we dropped domestic consumption of fuel and we also convinced other countries just to pump more oil.
You know, Russia is an extractive petro state.
Its industry is greatly diminished in such a way that we would be astonished even comparing it to what's happened to our industrial Midwest.
And, you know, they basically rely on selling products over, selling, exporting commodities overseas.
And if they can't do that, that can collapse the government.
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Hesitant Involvement in Ukraine00:05:07
Adam, is it a good idea to take Russia off Swift?
It's a, well, in order to give it the most pain possible, possibly short term, but long term, you know, that creates the entire incentive for Russia to become tighter with China.
And the United States really does not want one of the world's leadest producers of commodities being attached to and supporting the largest consumer in the world.
Yeah, so it seems like we're moving in that direction.
Was that a reckless response by the West or is it prudent?
I think it's prudent because it's not, and this is not a perfect answer, right?
This is, we didn't really have a lot of strong solutions.
There's very few limited sanctions opportunities on the table because there needs to be enough real felt impact in the elite of Russia to really kind of compel Vladimir Putin to come to the table in a more substantial way.
You know, the West was willing to negotiate up to 11th hour, but there never seemed to be a really good faith effort by the Russians.
And I think it's because they didn't really believe that we actually do it.
And unfortunately, with the game of brakesmanship is that you have to be willing to do something if you're going to say it.
And that's why it's unfortunate that we had to cut off Russia, even though they probably deserved it.
So that kind of leads to the final point I want to ask you is talk a little bit about how corrupt Ukraine is and why we need to be hesitant to over involve ourselves in this particular conflict.
So I don't remember the statistic, what ranking in world corruption they are, but Ukraine has previously held one of the most corrupt regime countries in Europe in the past, in the very recent past.
It's improved recently, but this is one of the strong reasons why European Union membership hasn't really happened.
NATO membership hasn't happened.
And this is part of the reason why we've seen so much graft that comes out of that country.
There's a number of people who are on Department of Justice sanctions lists who are Ukrainian oligarchs.
Their government functions in a very similar way to Russia's, except for they don't have the massive security apparatus of the Russian security forces that also act as a kind of a block to some of the mafia style behavior that does happen in Russia, right?
Like Putin is a consensus candidate.
Zelensky, you know, the question is, you know, who does he end up siding with in the long term?
And he seems to be siding with the people over the oligarchs.
Now the oligarchs of Ukraine have abandoned the country.
So they've left the country.
So Zelensky's Zelensky's a former actor.
How much of this are we seeing, do you think, is legitimate?
I don't want to say anything that's illegitimate, but is there an information work going on, isn't there?
Absolutely.
The information warfare is probably the most substantial one we've ever seen.
So there's, and this is the game, right?
Whoever controls the perception of reality often dictates what reality is going to be, right?
And so the Ukrainian forces need to be getting out that they're being effective because they need the financial support and the material support from the West that they're doing so.
And they need to be able to psych out Russians who do have access to local news, even though they're technically supposed to be blacked out from that as they push forward.
Russia surprisingly has done a really bad job of putting the information warfare out there.
I thought Russia was going to dominate it when in reality, it seems the Ukrainians are far and ahead above and beyond anything the Russians could muster.
And this is a very different conflict as a result of this.
Like you get to hear real-time updates of how many casualties the Russians take in a given push.
Why are the Russians not engaging in that kind of propaganda warfare?
I would have expected that from them.
It seems like they're just getting run over in that regard.
So, you know, part of it, there's probably some sort of effort to blockade Russian accounts from putting too much out there.
But, you know, I think what the Ukrainians have done well and the Western powers have done well is that they've basically prepared the world liberal order, whatever you'd like to call it, for this conflict.
And there's a lot of eyes on it.
And there's just way more people in the Western world who have basically constant access to putting information out there.
And all the Ukrainians have to do is make it available for Westerners to consume and it'll be propagated.
You know, and also, too, here, the thing is that Ukrainians do have a heroic story here.
You know, they're largely funding off modern Russian equipment with a lot of equipment that was designed in the 1960s, even though it's been upgraded recently.
And it's really remarkable what's going on there.
And that remarkable story needs to be told and that's being told.
The Great Reset Explained00:15:47
Great.
Adam, thank you so much for joining us.
Really appreciate it.
Adam Korzynewski.
Talk to you soon.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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Okay, let's get to some more sound here.
You kind of look at the front page of the New York Times.
It says, as war rages, Ukraine agrees to talk with Russians without preconditions.
So it seems as if the peace negotiations completely and totally fell apart.
Right afterwards, Kiev gets steadily and heavily bombed.
Let's get to this tape here.
I want to go to cut 16.
Hillary Clinton says, we want to make sure that within our own country, we're calling out people giving aid and comfort to Putin and siding with autocrats against the global cause of democracy.
So we have been accused, and other people on the right have been accused of being pro-Putin puppets.
This is ridiculous.
I've never been a fan of Putin at all.
Saying that you want to use them as a use Russia as a temporary strategic advantage against Xi Jinping's China is not the same as being a Russian puppet.
Actually, Hillary Clinton, you're the only one whose foundation actually took money from Russian oligarchs.
I've never been to Russia.
I don't know any Russians.
I want peace.
I don't want war.
And I definitely don't like what Putin is doing right now.
Play cut 16.
We have to also make sure that within our own country, we are calling out those people who are giving aid and comfort to Vladimir Putin, who are talking about what a genius he is, what a smart move it is, who are unfortunately being broadcast by Russian media, not only inside Russia, but in Europe to demonstrate the division within our own country.
Right.
So leave it to Hillary Clinton to lecture us about the division in our own country.
Now, the entire left is built around trying to categorize conservatives as fascists or Putin sympathizers.
And I mean, I spent a lot of time in the conservative movement.
I was at CPAC.
I could tell you right now that the conservative movement is not full of Putin apologists or sympathizers.
Now, I did say at my CPAC address, and I will say this again, that our southern border and our sovereignty, the invasion of our country, does matter more than what is happening in Ukraine and with Russia.
That to allow your own country to have perpetual porous borders while the territorial integrity alarms you so much that you're going to put sanctions on other countries, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
And now, some people say, well, it's not an invasion on the southern border.
You should go to Yuma like I did.
You would see cartel leaders orchestrating and pushing forward the illegal migrants themselves almost with military precision, the invasion of our country.
And so Mitt Romney said something very similar, where he said that he is at a loss for words with how some people just seem to continue to push the Kremlin line.
He says, quote, anti-American Republicans are still shilling for Putin and his lapdog.
Romney says, I've got morons on my team.
Romney blasts fellow Republican members for supporting Putin.
He says it's almost treasonous, punishable by death, Mitt Romney says.
Here is the thing, he said, quote, it's unthinkable to me.
It's almost treasonous.
And it makes me ill to see some of these people do that.
Senator Romney reacts to pro-Putin sentiments coming from GOP members and some media outlets.
Meanwhile, Joe Biden was asked about, hey, are you worried about nuclear war?
You know, something that could exterminate the entire human race.
Play cut 19.
Mr. President, is Ukraine winning the war?
President, nuclear.
You're always voting for us to do the weapons.
Mr. President, are you worried about nuclear war?
He's just walking and keeping his head down and ignoring the questions totally and completely with no mention whatsoever.
All of this is surrounding the idea of energy, that which fuels a civilization, everything that we're seeing right now happen and unfold in Ukraine and in Russia.
You see, when you have a authoritarian country, you're not really able to have free markets.
You're not able to have entrepreneurs because entrepreneurship requires private property rights.
Entrepreneurship requires the ability for people to be able to take risks, to be able to adjudicate differences in court.
Freedom and private property are directly tied together.
Well, as we can see very clearly in Russia, they do not have much freedom.
They're arresting people for going to protests.
Therefore, when you do not have freedom, you have to finance your country in some way, shape, or form.
And the way that Russia finances their country is through oil.
It doesn't take a lot of dissent or doesn't take a lot of creativity to just extract oil.
I shouldn't say it that bluntly, but meaning that the economy is not that diversified.
It doesn't take freedom to do that.
Saudi Arabia is able to do that.
The Russian Central Bank has now said in a statement that the Moscow Stock Exchange will remain closed for trading Tuesday.
Now, there are elements of a market economy in Russia.
They have some Western companies.
They aren't North Korea, but they are more and more and increasingly so an authoritarian, let's say, anti-freedom government.
And they're okay with it.
They are going to finance their country simply and solely through the extraction of oil.
Now, that is their Achilles heel.
And it just so happens the Achilles heel of Russia actually is a sorely needed advantage that we have in our country today.
Now, what could be very confusing to people is how does Russia and China play into the Great Reset, play into the World Economic Forum.
But I, by no means whatsoever, am defending what Russia is doing.
Instead, I am going to argue that the World Economic Forum and Russia and China, despite them hating each other, are both adversaries to a free society.
They just have different visions on how to get there.
They both want to be in control, but they certainly don't want to share that control.
The World Economic Forum, Klaus Schwab, George Soros, borderless society is now eventually going to come in a collision course with the Russian Federation, Chinese Communist Party alliance that wants ethno-state nationalism to govern the world.
This is why Ukraine is kind of the new launching off point for that.
Russia wants a closed-off, wants a much more Eastern view of the world, ethno-nationalist.
And the State Department, run out of Washington, D.C., wants more of a borderless type society.
Now, Russia, in many ways, feels threatened by the World Economic Forum and NATO.
I'm not defending the invasion, but it's worth exploring how does the Great Reset, a topic we've talked about quite often here in this program, how does it tie into this?
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What if there were two villains on the world stage and they both want power, but they want it in a very different way?
So on team one, you have the World Economic Forum run by Klaus Schwab, people like George Soros, business tycoons, Hollywood celebrities, many people together that work and operate to try and destroy borders, to try to create a one-world government.
They believe Western values will be completely and totally obsolete.
They believe that the currency that we know, the currency model we know, will be destroyed and will be crushed.
It's team one.
We know a lot about them.
We've talked about the Great Reset.
We've talked about the World Economic Forum.
But an opponent to that, who also wants their own form of power and domination, is also a villain in this game.
Vladimir Putin and Xi Ji Ping.
They're at direct odds with the World Economic Forum.
They're at direct odds with NATO, who is posting pictures with LGBTQ flags, as if that's going to somehow intimidate or endear more support for them.
The NATO secretary is posting a gay pride flag saying we stand with Ukraine.
Like, what does that have to do with anything?
Some people are making fools out of themselves.
What's really happening is a fight for LGBTQ rights in Ukraine.
Like, really?
That's a strange way to frame it.
That's for sure.
And in the Russian-Chinese axis of power, they want something very similar to the World Economic Forum.
But they don't want a borderless world, and they don't want their currency to be obsolete.
They want power.
They want global hegemony.
Now, the World Economic Forum website, it says here, Klaus Schwab signed this letter.
The essence of our organization is belief and respect, dialogue, and collaboration.
We therefore deeply condemn the aggression by Russia against Ukraine, the attacks and atrocities.
Our full solidarity is with Ukraine and its people.
We'll do whatever is possible to help actively support humanitarian and diplomatic efforts.
We only hope that in the longer term, reason will prevail and that space for bridge building and reconciliation once more emerges.
And so Putin is right up against the World Economic Forum.
Now, we're not fans of either, obviously.
But the reason why all of a sudden you have the ultra-nationalists like China and Russia going up against Klaus Schwab is they both want global power, but completely different visions of what that looks like in practice.
Putin and Xi Jinping are pulling off their own version of the great reset.
It's a great reset, for sure.
Russia's going to have to reset their currency pretty soon after this.
But they want a reset where strong-armed tyrants, not constitutional republics that believe in separation of powers or the consent of the governed or checks and balances rule, not where freedom and liberty is protected and preserved.
But both the World Economic Forum and Putin and Xi Jinping hate the U.S. Constitution.
Both the World Economic Forum and Putin and Xi Jinping hate Western values.
Now, there are some people out there that are saying that, you know, Putin needs to be understood and better seen from his perspective.
I don't see that.
I've read the literature on that.
I'm not convinced at all.
But this is the tension, right?
So George Soros says the U.S. must do whatever we possibly can to back Ukraine.
Why?
Why would Soros want to back Ukraine?
Because he sees that as a tension point of his fight against authoritarianism, and he wants his version of authoritarianism.
Can I put this in kind of clearer terms?
It's either Justin Trudeau or Vladimir Putin.
That's the tension.
Trudeau, who seems like he's a really nice guy and understated, and then he's willing to deploy the shock troops against protesters in his own country.
The World Economic Forum great reset crowd are now going to come in a full collision course with the Putins and the Xi Ji Pings.
Why should we get in the way?
It's an interesting question, right?
They believe in no borders.
Putin and Xi Jinping believe in ethno-states.
Guess what?
There is a third way.
It's America.
It's a constitutional republic.
It's entrepreneurship.
It's liberty.
It's risk-taking.
It's respect for the rule of law.
We don't need to live in Soros' dystopia or the Far East's dystopia of authoritarianism and assassinations and murdering your political opponents.
The Constitution can be the true great reset.
And if two enemies want to fight, don't get in their way.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show podcast.
Thanks so much for listening.
God bless.
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