The Charlie Kirk Show - ‘Good Kills’ with Pastor David Engelhardt—LIVE from Dream City Church

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Feb. 6, 2022 - The Charlie Kirk Show

01:22:46

‘Good Kills’ with Pastor David Engelhardt—LIVE from Dream City Church

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Turning Point USA Sponsorship 00:03:39
	Hey, everybody.
	Happy Sunday.
	My conversation from Dream City Church with Pastor David Engelhart.
	Good kills.
	That's what Pastor Engelhart says.
	We talk about the transgender issue.
	We talk about the gay marriage issue.
	We talk about a lot of different types of issues.
	And Pastor David Engelhart does a wonderful job of breaking it all down.
	If you want to email us your thoughts, you could do so by emailing us directly, freedom at charliekirk.com.
	That's freedom at charliekirk.com.
	If you want to support our show, go to charliekirk.com/slash support to get behind the work we are doing.
	That's charliekirk.com/slash support to get behind the work we are doing every single day on this program to try and make sure our nation's young people get the truth and they get the right ideas, all grounded in eternal principles.
	CharlieKirk.com/slash support.
	If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com.
	Turning point USA was the sponsor of this conversation.
	We are doing work on high school and college campuses all across the country.
	We are passing down American values to future generations to make sure that your kids and grandkids live in a free country.
	It's tpusa.com.
	That's tpusa.com.
	Turningpoint USA is the largest organization on the planet doing this sort of work.
	Email me directly, freedom at charliekirk.com.
	It's our conversation with Pastor David Engelhart.
	Buckle up.
	Here we go.
	Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
	Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
	I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
	Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
	I want to thank Charlie.
	He's an incredible guy.
	His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
	We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
	That's why we are here.
	Thank you, everybody.
	Please take a seat.
	Thank you.
	You know, I'm so touched when I kind of go throughout Scottsdale and Phoenix and people come up to me and they say, Charlie, I go every single month to Dream City.
	It really means a lot.
	And it's a vision that has just come together and it's been so special.
	One of the most amazing stories, some of you might remember when we had Jack Hibbs here a couple months ago, and we kind of had a pretty heated session about the vaccine, about the mandatory vaccine.
	And what was so amazing is that afterwards, some of the nurses that were saying, Charlie, I'm about to get fired.
	I think one might be here.
	As soon as they came up and told their story, if it was relayed to me correctly, which I think it was, they had job opportunities the moment they walked out of Freedom Night, Freedom Square, immediately.
	It's just so cool to think, and it's awesome.
	So one housekeeping thing, you guys can continue to keep calling this Freedom Square.
	I hope you guys do.
	There's a really good company out there that owns the rights to Freedom Square, and we don't want to get into a fight with them.
	So for all intents and purposes, from our standpoint, it's Freedom Night in America now.
	But you guys can continue to call it whatever you want.
	See, there it is.
	Okay.
	Got it all there.
	But it's a night of freedom.
	How about that?
	So we want to continue to be magnanimous and building good movements and all that.
	And, you know, God bless all the good people that are behind that great company, and they're doing great work.
	So a couple of things I want to share with you.
	And then we have a real treat tonight of one of the most popular and one of the most bold and courageous pastors in New York City is here with us tonight.
	And he does such a great job.
	And he is the author of a new book called Good Kills.
Freedom Square Name Change 00:11:54
	If that doesn't get your attention, I don't know what will.
	And David is also a board member at Turning Point USA.
	We do a lot of different things together.
	But first, I want to share a couple things that I think are really exciting.
	Last month, we talked about kind of a theme that is happening in our country that I think has only accelerated in the last couple weeks, which is the rise of the citizen and the fall of the regime.
	We're seeing that happen in real time.
	And I don't know about you, but the last couple days, I have spent hours just watching footage, so inspired by those Canadian truckers that have decided to push back against tyranny.
	I have just been so...
	Moved by that.
	And look, it's one thing for the French to protest.
	They do that a lot, right?
	Now, I guess Canada has some French roots, but still, the Canadians, they're very polite people.
	You know that.
	There's actually a lot of Canadians in Scottsdale, a fair amount.
	Very nice, very polite, very agreeable people.
	And it takes a lot for them to do what they're doing right now.
	And this is why I always get so confused and dare I say impatient.
	I know we're not supposed to get impatient as Christians when certain pastors say, Charlie, politics doesn't matter.
	Stop it.
	Cut it out.
	I say, really?
	Politics matters so much that when you cross a line in the sand or the snow, you could get arrested for doing what you're doing right now in Canada.
	That's a big deal, right?
	How you form your government matters a lot to the body of Christ, the free expression.
	Where Archer Pavlovsky, a pastor in Alberta, I believe, or could be in Saskatchewan or Saskatchewan is in Alberta.
	And he has a church and he was warned twice by the government.
	And they arrested him on the side of the street for having church.
	And that's happening all across Canada.
	Keep him in your prayers.
	I think he's out on their equivalent of parole.
	And you might be saying, oh, what are they protesting in Canada?
	Why are they stopping traffic?
	Well, let me tell you, if you do not have full proof of vaccination, which includes all the booster shots, by the way, it's not just the fact of the first two doses, all the booster shots.
	Let's say you're unvaccinated, of which I am.
	I would not be allowed to go to a grocery store.
	You're not allowed to.
	You have to have a health warden escort you only within certain hours.
	So they could clear out everyone because you're such a danger to society.
	You're not allowed to freely move between provinces.
	You're not allowed to freely move between the United States and Canada, regardless of vaccination status, regardless.
	You have to quarantine for two weeks coming into Canada.
	And Canadians, being a country of only about 36, 38 million people, about the size of California, they had enough.
	And if you haven't really spent time looking at the story, I know some of you have kind of seen bits and pieces of it.
	It's so inspiring and so, quite honestly, unexpected.
	They started this long trucker convoy across the Arctic tundra all the way to Ottawa.
	And what I love about it is that these are the people that make our economy work.
	And honestly, they're people that sometimes we take for granted that are at the back ends of pejoratives or slurs or insults.
	Like, what, are you going to be like a trucker?
	When in reality, they're people that kept our entire economy alive when we shut down our country, right?
	Without the truckers, how would we have staffed our grocery stores and our entire civilization?
	And many of them are being forced to say that, okay, because a lot of them do routes between U.S. and Canada.
	And they're saying, okay, in order for you to see your family, you have to mandatory quarantine for two weeks, regardless of vaccination status, coming back into Canada.
	And they are drawing the line in the snow.
	And still right now, they have basically peacefully, by the way, which is always the way we want things to be done, zero violence, regardless what the prime minister is saying.
	They're occupying the streets of Ottawa.
	And they're saying, look, we are not leaving until you lift these tyrannical orders.
	Now, some pastors are coming out and they say, this is not Christ-like, you know, and I disagree.
	In fact, I believe fighting tyranny and pursuing liberty is trying to fulfill God's promise for his children.
	And this is an important thing because as we explore this, we must remember that the Canadian truckers and them alongside, they tried every other way to try and petition and reconcile with their government.
	And they're willing to accept the punishment, which is the defining characteristic of civil disobedience, mind you.
	These truckers say, fine, arrest us right now.
	Take our stuff.
	You're going to have to have the footage of all of a sudden you guys bringing in the National Guard to do that.
	Very similar, by the way, to how Daniel ended up in the Lion's Den.
	We always tell the story of how Daniel was in the Lions Den.
	We forget how he actually ended up in the Lions Den in the first place, which was that there was a conspiracy against Daniel to try to forbid him from actually practicing God's laws, the commandments of worshiping God.
	He made a conscious decision to obey God and not man, open up the window to the city and defy government authorities.
	And that was what got him into the lion's den.
	And the promise of that story is the same promise to the Canadian truckers, which is that God will not forsake his children if you honor his commandments against tyranny.
	And this is something that some Christians do not want to admit.
	There's bad governments out there, and they might want to crush your ability to congregate and to worship.
	And so it's not just in Canada.
	This is starting all across Europe, by the way, Australia, and New Zealand.
	And I think that we have to do everything we possibly can to have their back.
	And honestly, I hope there's a freedom convoy, peaceful freedom convoy that starts across America.
	I would love to see that.
	So it really is kind of that reinforcing theme of citizen rising and the regime being questioned.
	And just seeing Justin Trudeau try to explain this has been actually a masterclass in tyranny.
	It really has been.
	You know, those masterclasses, like, here's how you could do this.
	It's like a masterclass in how to defy, you know, what the people actually want.
	He flees.
	He doesn't want to confront them.
	And it really, I mean, there's a lot of different words to kind of describe him that I won't use in church.
	But I will say that he definitely is not representing his people in more ways than one.
	But it does kind of show that the ground is starting to shake.
	It's starting to shake from the movement of all of you.
	Moms and dads showing up to school boards, people starting to question people in authority.
	I mean, who would have thought the creativity and quite honestly, the out-of-the-box thinking of a trucker convoy, like a month ago, we would never have thought it.
	But it really goes to show that in the West, there is a desire for liberty, you know, despite what the media might have you believe.
	Okay, one other thing I want to touch on here before we bring up David, which is something that's happening locally.
	Now, before I proceed, this is not a joke, but I do want you to laugh because it's the only way you'll be able to process part of what I'm about to share with you.
	But after you're done laughing, we need to get serious about what's really happening in our city and our state and our country.
	We all agree we're in a spiritual war, right?
	We agree that everything that's happening physical is just a manifestation of the spiritual.
	There's an invisible war that's happening around us that a lot of people ignore.
	They do not want to even admit exists.
	But you could start to see the diabolical nature of a lot of the programs that are starting to happen.
	Well, some people call this satanic or demonic, and I agree with a lot of that.
	Now, some of you might not even know this, but I'm going to inform you, the body of Christ, what's coming to your neighborhood in just a couple of days.
	From February 11th through 13th, SatanCon, the National Satanic Conference, is coming here to Scottsdale.
	It's sold out February 11th, 12th, and 13th.
	That will be hosted here at a local hotel.
	Now, I chuckle at this because Turning Point USA has trouble getting hotels to host us because they call us too controversial.
	But yeah, sure, the Satanists, like, yeah, we'll rent out the whole ballroom.
	It's like, it kind of changes the whole definition of what is considered to be controversial.
	By the way, you could fact check all this.
	It's all very public.
	They chose Scottsdale for a reason.
	They chose Scottsdale because the former mayor of Scottsdale did the right thing, but he's actually, unfortunately, I think backed away from it in some of his statements saying that the Church of Satan should not be allowed to make a prayer at Scottsdale city council meetings.
	That was the right move.
	He has sent, well, you know, this thing happening in Scottsdale is just, it's free speech.
	You know, that's what it is.
	Now, this is an interesting thing to ponder on, and I don't think there's a clear-cut answer of it.
	But when Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and John Jay and Alexander Hamilton were talking about freedom of speech, I don't think Satan conventions were what they thought as the fruits of liberty.
	Like, oh, yeah, the fruits of liberty, Luciferian conventions happening in the middle of really decent places to live.
	And I'm going to go into some of the details, what they're going to be doing there because it's important.
	So literal, like our darkness is coming into the valley.
	Now, some Christians say, oh, I have no problem with this.
	You know, Satan is in a lot of different places.
	He's not everywhere.
	The Bible does not say he's ubiquitous.
	He focuses on a certain place.
	Yeah, I have a big problem with this.
	I think that if you tolerate evil, especially literally Satan conventions and conferences, yeah, the ramifications of that are quite obvious, right?
	And the Bible tells us that we should love what is good and hate what is evil.
	And Lord, rebuke you.
	It says very clearly in Jude 1:9.
	So, but this is an important point, which is that, you know, some people say that we can't do anything about this because it's just freedom of speech and all this.
	Now, there's a political and a legal standpoint of this, and there's also a spiritual standpoint of this, right?
	I want to alert all of you so that you could be praying.
	And there will be a big protest in opposition to this.
	I hope it's a big protest.
	And I do want to give a shout out.
	The local Catholic diocese has actually been on top of this.
	I know that a lot of people here might not have warm feelings towards Catholics, but they deserve a lot of credit.
	They really do.
	They've been organizing about this, and they deserve credit for that.
	I would love to see a peaceful kind of spiritual counterbalance.
	Now, here's some of their programming.
	They have the Impurity Ball that will be happening in downtown Scottsdale.
	This is their national convention, right?
	It's like their Super Bowl.
	And we should kind of mock them because they're losers.
	We win and you lose in the end.
	That's how the book ends.
	So the Impurity Ball is a display of bodily autonomy, personal growth, and the joys of sinning with abandon, right?
	Now, here's where some people say, oh, you know, okay, this is just a fringe group.
	Okay.
	Well, in Moline, Illinois, this very same organization is now having groups in schools.
	It's been approved after school clubs.
	And that's one of the things they're meeting on here in Scottsdale, right?
	How do we implement more Satan clubs in local public schools in Arizona and across the country?
	So your taxpayer-funded dollars can go to underwrite satanic activity.
	But here's the thing, everybody, right?
	They're all about bodily autonomy.
	It's the impurity ball.
	But they require proof of vaccination at N95 masks, and they're required at all times, okay?
	So the Satanists, it actually makes perfect sense, though.
	They have a spirit of fear, and we don't.
	That's why they have to wear masks all the time, right?
	So, all kidding aside, from a political standpoint, our leaders can decide whatever they want to do.
	You know, I said something on my radio show.
	Someone emailed us.
	They say, Charlie, you know, isn't it a slippery slope if you start to say some people can speak and some people can't?
	Where do you draw the line?
	Yeah, I draw the line at Satan conferences, actually.
	That's my line.
	So thanks for asking, right?
	Like, that's actually the line.
	I think it doesn't make us a better country to live in.
	Satan conferences.
	And if that's considered to be controversial, we could explore that, I guess, in the question and answer time.
Church Stand and Prayer Fasting 00:07:35
	I do this to alert you and to encourage you to try to participate through prayer, through fasting, through intercessory intervention.
	This is an important thing.
	We should mock it.
	We should laugh at it, obviously, but also we should take it seriously.
	There's something here.
	I want you to think about it.
	They could have picked any country, any country, any state.
	Well, let's just take any state.
	It's the American Satanist organization or whatever.
	And why Arizona?
	That's an interesting question, right?
	Yeah, it could be because of the city council thing that really irritated them.
	Or it's like, yeah, we have like a pretty heavy presence in Hollywood and Manhattan.
	We're going to go to the spiritual battleground.
	Maybe that's what they're thinking, right?
	And I, for one, want to be part of a group of people that literally drive Satan out of Phoenix and of Arizona.
	And I hope you'll all join us February 11th, 12th, and 13th to do that together.
	So on that wonderfully uplifting note, but it is uplifting because we know how it all ends.
	And Christ has given us victory, right?
	We do not have victory personally over Satan, but Christ has given us the victory over Satan.
	So we should not be afraid of this, but we should be aware and alert that it's happening and also in an act of posture.
	I've gotten to know David really well over the last couple of years.
	I wrote the forward to this book.
	It's called Good Kills.
	You might be like, come on, what does that mean?
	It's so thoughtful.
	It's so unique.
	In this book, have some truths that are not always talked about by the American church.
	I'll tell you a fun story before I call David up here.
	So we were traveling at a turning point USA campus tour, and David was with us and just kind of checking in, seeing how things were going.
	And he says, Charlie, there's a chapter in my book called Sexual Anarchy.
	I'm like, cool, that sounds like a band.
	Like, that's kind of interesting.
	And he told me what it was.
	And so then I went to the, and basically what it is, what we're living through right now, right?
	No restraints, no rules, no morals, do whatever you want, and you end up really miserable.
	And the way he explained it was really thoughtful.
	So I say it at this conference at this convention the next day with all these students.
	It goes so viral, like all over the entire world.
	So I can thank David for that.
	But there's a lot of truths in this book that I think are worth looking into.
	And I think it will equip you to be able to fight the spiritual war and live a better life.
	So everybody, please join me in welcoming my friend, Pastor David Engelhardt.
	All right, David, welcome.
	Thank you.
	You've attended a couple of these, right?
	I was at the one with Eric Metaxas being not funny at all.
	Yeah.
	So you got to tell him my stand-up routine was better than his.
	So David, tell us a little about yourself.
	Introduce yourself to our audience.
	Lawyer, your walk with Christ all day.
	I'm a pastor, lawyer.
	I pastor a church in Manhattan, all the way at the bottom of the island.
	People always say to me, I thought you were supposed to go like from lawyer, you get saved, and then you become pastor.
	How did you do the opposite way?
	And the Lord really divinely called me into the pastoral, from the pastoral ministry, into law, and then back into doing both at the same time.
	And it's really a beautiful time to be trained legally, constitutionally, with the battles the church is facing right now in our day and age.
	And really the war to strip us of our rights, our ability to speak about the gospel and about not just this great invitation to Christ, but also that Jesus says it says in the book of Mark, everywhere that he went, he said, repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
	And right now there's a war and they don't want us to say the word repent.
	They don't want us to say these acts are sinful and they're against God's order and they're really damaging for humanity.
	And so that, so anyway, all of those things, I just feel like the Lord really appropriated me and then equipped me for being in the middle of New York City, battling the Black Lives Matter stuff, mandates, all of these kinds of things that are now really intense issues.
	And so, David, your church has taken a stand.
	You came out and you said the undertones of BLM are unbiblical.
	And you kind of took a hit at that with, you know, hit for that at first.
	And you've also, you're not checking for proof of vaccination at the door for your church in New York City.
	You're not, there's not a lot of you out there.
	We were actually having lunch at our church because so many of our church people were unvaxed.
	They couldn't go to restaurants after church on Sunday.
	So we just opened our church up for Uber DoorDash deliveries and were having lunch at our church just because they wouldn't let us.
	So tell us a little about your church.
	Yeah.
	Let me tell how we met that story.
	So nine years ago, I had just graduated law school and I really felt compelled, both my wife and I. I've been married for 17 years, three kids.
	And we felt just this compulsion by the Holy Spirit to go to New York City and plant a church and do business law at the same time, not really knowing why or how.
	And so we were waiting for the bar results to come in and I was fasting and praying saying, God, you really have to speak to me and give me direction.
	Like, I want to do this thing, but I need heaven to stamp what I want to do.
	Do you know what I'm saying?
	Like, we have a lot of things we want to do, but we need heaven to stamp the time and the season and the place.
	And so I was fasting and praying.
	My wife and I were sitting on a park bench.
	I said, I just feel like we're supposed to ask God to give us $5,000 tomorrow.
	And she was like, what?
	I was just like, just go with me.
	Just bear with me.
	Just as a sign.
	I need much more than $5,000 for this vision, but just that God would give us the sign.
	So I was like, Lord, I said to my wife, I said, can I pray for this?
	And just because, you know, it's a weird thing.
	It's like a fleece with water, the non-fleece water.
	It's not one, you know, it's weird.
	And so I prayed the Spirit, God, I just need your confirmation.
	And so the next day rolls around and my wife got a call in the kitchen and they said, family members said, hey, Bethany, we know David wants to start a law practice in New York.
	So we were going to give you five grand in a couple of months, but we just felt really like we had to tell you today that we're giving you $5,000 to help you, blah, blah, blah.
	My wife looks despondent.
	She looks like frustrated.
	I'm like, what's the deal?
	I hear from God, you know, like, be happy with me, you know?
	And I was like, no, seriously, what's wrong?
	She said, I really felt like we were supposed to ask for $10,000.
	I was like, well, why didn't you say that?
	The next day, they called back and they said, we changed our mind.
	We're giving you $10,000, not $5,000.
	And so, you know, when the stamp of God comes upon something that he's put in your heart, that means it's going to be incredibly difficult.
	I didn't know that.
	I thought it meant it was going to be incredibly easy.
	It means exactly the opposite of that.
	The bigger the sign, the harder the road.
	And God gives us those Ebenezers, that stack of stones, so we remember his promises and we remember his voice and say, I know it's really brutal right now, but God is leading me.
	And Jesus said, those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.
	Amen?
	So we planted a church in 2018.
	It took a few years to get the practice off the ground and get stable.
	And it was beautiful, multicultural, growing, starting with 15, grew to our first, whatever, 100 or so people, and had a lot of excitement.
	And then the Black Lives Matter thing happened.
	And there were two sets of people.
	There was the actual Black Lives people, like the leaders of that organization.
God Values Freedom Over Safety 00:12:16
	And then there were pastors in my city that were saying things like, the church is the primary propagator of racism in the United States of America.
	They were saying things like this.
	You must treat racism like you treat COVID.
	You must assume that everyone has it.
	What does that do to a multicultural church, when the assumption is somewhere deep in your heart, you hate me and you're using me, and the church and my pastor is a part of this cadre of the primary propagators of this ideology.
	And so it just tore our church apart and my people were coming and saying you should talk about this, and I was like you really don't want me to talk about it, you really don't want me to talk about it.
	And then I I just um yeah, we talked about it and I actually just kind of I kind of just cannon fired on the evil underpinnings that are narcissism uh greed avarice socialism, all of these kind of all of the demonic axioms that underpin those arguments, and it blew my whole church up.
	People were saying i'm a racist, my wife's a racist, my children are racist, my four-year-old daughter.
	This lady was like, I know you're racist because your four-year-old daughter, I walked into the room one day and i'm black and she didn't say hi to me, but she said hi to the white lady.
	So I know you train your children to be racist.
	No, now listen, I know it sounds totally insane, but this is what people were deeply believing, people whose rent we were paying, people that got saved in our church, people that were being, that were weeping with us over prayer.
	This demonic doctrine was tearing apart the people of God and um, and our church was basically sinking and.
	But then I just I just started.
	I started talking about some of this stuff in in the book.
	It Kills that.
	You know.
	In revelation 21 the scripture says that Heaven has around it one of our favorite chapters.
	People don't like it when David says that at all.
	You know, Heaven has a wall around it, a gigantic wall, many thousand miles long, hugely tall, hugely thick.
	Why would Heaven ever need a wall?
	Well, it says it.
	It says to keep out the things that are vile and gross, and and and then it says, and that no lie may enter it, because the kingdom of Heaven cannot apply God's moral system on top of lies.
	It doesn't work, it breaks the axiom.
	And that's how Satan destroys the garden right, with Eve's cooperation and Adam's cooperation, by inserting lies into a perfect place.
	And when these pastors were standing up and saying things like, the church is the primary propagator of racism in the United States, these lies were being embedded into the hearts of Christian and their whole the, the garden of their hearts, where they met with Jesus, was being torn apart.
	And so we wrote a book called good kills.
	Well, and I just want to compliment uh David he could have backed down through all the BLM stuff and your church is growing.
	Now you're planting churches across the country.
	Yeah, it was kind of a refiner's fire, a little bit of a you know kind of seeing who's really on your team and then expanding it outward um, so let's talk about the book.
	So I love it.
	It's good kills, and we have some copies out in the lobby uh, afterwards for you guys um to pick up contribution of any, don't uh any amount at all.
	The turning point, you guys can get a copy, God, Good And The Sword.
	So first, good kills.
	I'm gonna play devil's advocate here because it's a lot more fun.
	What do you mean?
	Good kills?
	I mean good is every, I mean good lived, a good heals right, it's the opposite.
	Well, that's a great, that's a great uh starting point, good, good heals.
	And so if a patient uh has cancer and that cancer is eating their body and consuming them, the doctor must go in with a scalpel and remove the cancerous parts.
	And in our church and in our culture there are cancerous ideas, there are cancerous philosophies and doctrines, even in the church.
	That must actually be destroyed for the church to flourish, as God called it to flourish.
	So So how do you define good?
	Then I guess that's something a question would be say like what in what way does good actually end up killing?
	Yeah, so so part of the application, I mean the ultimate picture here is that Christ was killed for us, for our good, right?
	That's the ultimate salvific picture.
	But the idea is not that good is always running around shooting people.
	The idea is that in certain environments, it is necessary for a good man or woman to execute justice on bad things in the world.
	And in our culture, I mean, we see it with, especially in a city like mine, I mean, people are getting pushed off the subway tracks or the platforms onto the rails with the subway coming all the time.
	It's happening all the time.
	Like my family and I do not use the subway unless we have to because the amount of crime that's proliferated there, because the government has stopped being good.
	They've stopped executing the sword as they're called to do and authorized by God in Romans chapter 13.
	And it's not that they don't have the sword, right?
	It's that their view of justice, this is a real thing, is that the New York police went to the New York Museum of Metropolitan Art or whatever they call it, right?
	And they detained and arrested a nine-year-old black girl because she did not have her vaccination papers, right?
	So the police power in New York City is arresting people that are going to restaurants because they don't have the proper vaccination records or papers.
	Meanwhile, murder, arson, rape, robbery, assault, and the graphic crime of a person, totally innocent, by the way.
	I want you to think about, I mean, this idea that all crimes are equal is one of the dumbest anti-biblical ideas ever, right?
	I want you to think about the crime of randomness.
	Now, I'm not excusing any part of crime, right?
	But you get in a heated argument with somebody and you punch them in a bar fight and you're drunk and they're drunk at 2 a.m.
	That's bad.
	But here's something that is so evil.
	You see a random citizen on their iPhone with their headphones on right up to the train platform and you just say, I'm going to go push them in front of a train.
	You don't know that person.
	Get this.
	You don't even steal anything from them.
	It's just pure death.
	It's happening all the time in New York.
	And what's the police power doing?
	Going after nine-year-olds that don't have their vaccination records.
	Right.
	So this is one of the ideas on chapter four of the book is called A Higher Hierarchy.
	And this idea is that we as Christians derive a hierarchical moral order from the scripture.
	I was on a call shortly after I met Charlie and got swept into the world of conservative saving America, which thank God.
	Do you remember when I was a kid, like when the American Anthem came on, I like stood up.
	Were you anybody else like that?
	You're kind of like, that's my song, you know?
	So excited to be serving Turning Point with Charlie.
	I was on a, I got invited on a podcast shortly after Charlie and I connected and they were looking for pastors, any pastors who some voted for candidate A and some voted for candidate B.
	And I said, I was the only guy that they found that voted for the guy that was pro not murdering babies.
	It was like really hard to find other pastors, believe it or not, that are not pro chopping up babies.
	And so this guy gets on and he's trying to ask me all these questions and hardball it.
	And I said, listen, I believe in a hierarchy of moral order because Jesus said, if you make one of these little ones go astray, it'll be worse for you than tying a millstone around your neck and throwing yourself into the bottom of the sea, right?
	Jesus said, this is what the Pharisees do.
	They care about the bugs in their wine, but they swallow entire camels down.
	He said they care about the really minute things of the law that don't matter.
	The giant issues, they don't care at all about because they care about the things that incentivize themselves.
	And so because of that, we learn that there's a hierarchy of moral law, that some sins are bug-size sins.
	They're gross.
	Please don't eat a lot of bugs.
	Please don't do that.
	Right.
	And some are camel-size sins that destroy an entire society.
	And murdering an innocent life is at the top of the hierarchy of moral order.
	It's very simple.
	Well, and it's even worse than that.
	And David, you would agree.
	Not just murdering the innocent life, but saying that God's okay with it.
	That's even worse.
	Right.
	So that is doing evil in the name of God.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	It's even worse violation of that.
	And an example is how many people, I'm sure a lot of people here have had a rather aggressive enforcement of mask wearing posture, right?
	It's a very important thing for the current regime of how you wear your mask, what type of mask it is.
	And at some point, you know, recently I just kind of turned like, you know, there's 104,000 fentanyl overdoses every single year.
	Like, just focus on that.
	Thanks.
	Like, I'm going to wear my mask where I want to.
	And people say, oh, that's totally irrelevant.
	You can walk and chew gum at the same time.
	You know, that's a really interesting point, isn't it?
	Which is that if you think you could solve all the problems simultaneously with the same effort, energy, and money, well, then you think you're some form of a divine figure.
	The idea of hierarchy means that it's a triage.
	And this is why hospitals do that, right?
	Gunshot victims get treated before someone that has the common cold.
	And a society should be ordered in the same way.
	And justice should be ordered in the same way, right?
	And it's even worse than that.
	It's not like we're saying like, oh, yeah, the wearing mask thing is important, but we shouldn't get to it.
	It's the opposite of actually, it's completely irrelevant.
	It's like we've created this entire smokescreen controversy where we're just shadow boxing something that has no relevance, like zero relevance whatsoever when it's like, oh, yeah, we're, and Jesus said it so clearly, right?
	You're going to care about the gnats and not the camels.
	And why do you think that is, David?
	What do you think is the deeper point?
	Is that attacked by the enemy to try to get us distracted?
	Why is that?
	Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of issues.
	I think one of the reasons that is because we don't read our Bibles enough.
	I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, when I hear these guys talk about why they're mixing up God's hierarchy, they're literally not reading their Bibles.
	Like they're not focusing on what the scripture actually says.
	What's essential?
	The Westminster Catechism, longer one.
	It says that in the Old Testament, there were moral laws, that there were ceremonial laws, and that there were civil laws.
	It says that those civil laws were done away with when Jesus came and rose from the dead and the nation of Israel ended.
	But it says that those civil laws are to be used by us in society for the general equity thereof.
	What does that mean?
	It gives us wisdom.
	It gives us God's paradigm and ideas for things that are really important and things that are not important.
	Do you know this?
	Do you know that there are no prisons established in the Old Testament by the people of God?
	Zero.
	Zero.
	Do you know that God doesn't say, okay, this guy like stole somebody's camel, throw him in a box for like 20 years and then he'll be better when he gets.
	Do you know why that is?
	Because God values freedom.
	God values freedom over safety.
	Oh my gosh, what if he steals another camel?
	Well, then we'll deal with that instance.
	God actually has a higher value on freedom than he does on safety, which is why he allows a snake in the garden, which is why he allows things in our life to buffet us and turn us into the nature and character of Christ.
	But some of these laws that the catechisms tell us and that we originally based our civil law on are forgotten.
	So we're just randomly trying ideas and hoping they work.
	So one of them, and David lovingly corrected me, this is how you know he's a great pastor, is I kept on saying over and over again, ended up being a chapter in his book.
Divine Freedom vs Human Safety 00:11:00
	This is how big of a correction it was for me.
	And you guys all remember the very deep and well-thought-out Hollywood movie, Kung Fu Panda.
	You guys all remember that movie, right?
	It's very important in the Western canon, especially in millennial philosophical development.
	Right?
	Where there's this scene where, is he like a koala or something?
	He's a turtle.
	Turtle.
	It shows how recently I've watched it.
	And he's kind of like the Yoda figure, right?
	The archetype in kind of Jung's hierarchy of he's the conveyor of wisdom, right?
	Kind of a Gandalf figure, a Dumbledore figure, right?
	He's saying things that are true that end up being really true later in the series.
	And so he's kind of the person that corrects the hero on his journey.
	And he says something that many young people believe, including myself, because I never thought deeply about it, where he says, do not worry about tomorrow or yesterday.
	Worry about the present because today is a gift.
	I paraphrased it correctly.
	And you've heard this before, right?
	That life is a gift.
	Life is a gift.
	And so David, you know, kind of in his amazing way, when we were having dinner once out of nowhere, hey, Charlie, by the way, life's not a gift.
	What?
	David, explain.
	So, you know, it's so funny because there's a joke and I'm going to get it wrong, but these two young fish walk up to this old fish and the fish, the old fish is like, he gives them a piece of wisdom.
	And he's like, when you guys are older, you'll understand, you know, the different temperatures of the water.
	And the one young fish turns to his buddy and says, what the heck is water?
	Right?
	Because you don't know what you're swimming in.
	You don't know the ideas and the culture that you're living in because we're so inundated with this idea.
	Do you know this?
	There is not one scripture in the entire Bible that says life is a gift, not one single scripture.
	Christ is a gift.
	Salvation is a gift.
	The grace of God is a gift.
	But life actually comes with specific obligations.
	God gives them to you.
	And then he says, I'm giving you these things, talents, units of life.
	What will you do with them?
	Like the guy that buries them, remember, it doesn't go well for him because it's not just a gift.
	If my dad just says, hey, David, you know, listen, here's a trombone.
	And I'm like, thanks, Dad.
	Love it.
	I'm going to polish it.
	I'll keep it on the mantle because I love you.
	But I'm not playing a trombone.
	I don't want to do it.
	You know, that's fine.
	It doesn't matter.
	It's a gift.
	I can treat it however I want to.
	But an investment comes with specific obligations.
	And God invests into us life.
	In Genesis, that's God breathes into man and breath, the life of God comes into man.
	And then God says to mankind, these are the things I want you to do.
	He doesn't say do whatever you want.
	I'll see you in a couple, in 120.
	He doesn't say that.
	But we live life even as Christians, believing that I can do whatever I want to do as long as I don't sin that much.
	But that's not what God says ever in the story anywhere.
	He's saying there's a kingdom that I want you to see.
	I want to see you bring to earth to bring dominion to save the nation that I've given you.
	You know, in Romans chapter 9, Paul says this.
	He says, I would give my salvation, my eternal salvation for my nation, for my race, for those of my own blood.
	Do you know the Bible teaches us to love our nation that much that we would have such a broken heart for our home that we would say, God, I would give my own salvation for America.
	I would give my own salvation for the people that you've given me that are mine.
	All of these things are obligation that God places upon us.
	Now, because we're Christians, we have grace in Christ Jesus, which is the greatest gift of all time.
	And that's clearly stated in the book.
	But we live in a church culture that's mostly forgotten the obligations and mostly talks about the gift.
	And this really came home to me where, can someone tell me everything they got for Christmas five years ago?
	No, you forget birthday gifts, Christmas gifts really quickly.
	Things that don't come with strings, you don't take seriously.
	You don't.
	I couldn't remember what I got for Christmas even like a year and a half ago, right?
	But those of you that have ever had someone do the following, counsel you, invest in your business, sit down and help you in a time of struggle and say, I will do this if you do that.
	You'll never forget that.
	That's the difference between a gift and an investment.
	Now, some of it might be semantics, right?
	You're like, okay, Charlie, you're talking on the edges.
	But is it, right?
	When we talk about the root cause of it, it's that, no, no.
	God breathed life into you and he says, I want you to multiply.
	I want you to spread the gospel to all nations.
	I want you to obey my commands.
	It's not like, hey, here it is.
	Go have a nice time.
	See you later.
	And that's a completely different dynamic than I think a lot of churches or pastors.
	I think I will say, David, most pastors, if they talk about this, it's unknowingly, right?
	They might like, it's not always that way.
	Okay, the other super controversial topic, Dave, is sexual anarchy.
	What is that?
	Don't do it.
	Let's start there.
	So anarchy is defined as basically doing whatever you want.
	Whatever set of rules or obligations there are, I throw them all, throw them away.
	I can do whatever I want.
	In Matthew chapter 19, Jesus establishes a three-part system for human sexuality union joining.
	He says, in the beginning, he made them male and female.
	That's part one, right?
	The second, he said, it's like we need to clap for that these days, right?
	No, seriously.
	Two gender.
	What?
	Yeah.
	Getting offensive already.
	The second, he said that he joined this couple in union, sexual union, right?
	That's the coming together of one flesh.
	And thirdly, that this was a permanent relationship, right?
	Do we all agree there?
	It's very basic, super simple.
	God's super, he's easy, right?
	He gives us easy rules.
	Sexual anarchy, and we've done this as a nation, we've thrown off the rules in reverse order.
	I don't know if you know this, but in the early 1990s, when no fault divorce came to California, within two or three years, the divorce rate increased.
	I think it was seven or eight times.
	Seven or eight times more young boys and girls didn't have a dad at home or didn't have a mom at home.
	So we said as a nation, there doesn't have to be an affair.
	There doesn't have to be some kind of horrific thing.
	If you just feel like it, just throw this thing out.
	Throw this permanent thing, throw it in the garbage.
	That was the first step into this foray of anarchy where we say, God, your order.
	Nah.
	And the church doesn't really talk about divorce that much.
	They're like, you know, you know, hopefully you'll work it out.
	You'll blah, blah, blah.
	Jesus, you know, Malachi says that if a man divorces his wife, he wears a cloak as a violence to the Lord his God.
	You're like, no, it's just, I'm trying to work out my life.
	No, there's an order to the universe.
	Listen, the first thing is this commitment.
	We throw the commitment thing out and then we're like, you know, does it really need to be a man and a male and female in sexual unity?
	Does it really need to be that?
	And since at least Obama, we've kind of thrown that out culturally, right?
	We're like, you can do whatever you want.
	We don't care.
	We'll keep identity, though.
	We'll hold on to our identity.
	And then the third thing that Jesus says first, that I made them male and female, that now is destroyed in our culture.
	I don't even know if I'm a boy or a girl.
	Apple has pregnant men emojis.
	Real thing.
	Yeah, and that's the thing.
	Your kids and grandkids are exposed to.
	And it is hate speech at Google and many college campuses that say only women can become pregnant.
	So when I was a little boy, my dad used to say, David, wouldn't it be a horrible thing if you didn't know if you were a boy or a girl?
	Now, my dad wasn't thinking in 25 years or 30 years or 40 years, there's going to be a transgender thing and I'm inculcating my child.
	He was literally saying, wouldn't it be awful to be so lost, to be so without identity that you don't even know if you're a boy or a girl?
	That is the culture we're living in because we've thrown off God's moral order.
	And when we sin in sexuality, listen, sexuality is about creating identities.
	So when we break the gift about creating identities, our own identity ultimately is destroyed.
	And I say, I don't even know if I'm a boy or a girl anymore.
	And it doesn't stop there.
	I mean, recent revelations out of California, an alarming lawsuit, a mother who is suing a group of teachers for actually recruiting her daughter into becoming a transgender, right?
	With some very, very specific allegations in the lawsuit.
	And the teachers have admitted this in private closed-door sessions in the California teacher union.
	So this is a very interesting point, right?
	Where it starts with the, and this is kind of where liberalism, not leftism, two totally different things, at times can all of a sudden reach a very troubling kind of chapter, if you will.
	The last chapter in liberalism is authoritarianism.
	And so liberalism is always like, hey, there's these groups of people.
	They're really downtrodden.
	We need to give them rights.
	We need to give them privileges.
	We need to give them status and acceptance because they've been, you know, treated terribly.
	Now, sometimes those liberal groups are right.
	Let me be clear.
	You know, small L-liberal groups of women's suffrage or the anti-slavery movement, that those were legitimate concerns.
	But almost always it goes from there.
	And the activists, they don't stop.
	They see they're making progress to the inevitable last chapter, which is like, okay, so we got the Vanity Fair thing and you all call Bruce Jenner Caitlin Jenner now.
	Cool.
	Okay, phase one.
	Phase two, we're now going to have chemical castration and sexual reassignment surgery paid for by taxpayers without parental consent for 12, 13-year-olds in California and Oregon.
	That's the law of the land in Oregon.
	It's about to be in California, right?
	That's phase two.
	But then it's like, okay, we got that into law of the books.
	That's not enough.
	Now we need to train our activists to create more transgender people.
	And so you call it the slippery slope, call whatever you want.
	I just kind of call it the devolving kind of chapters of liberalism.
	And this is a very dangerous thing.
	Absent God's law and morality and restraints, if you focus on always just trying to break people of the shackles that allegedly exist and largely they're overly inflated, you know, issues that, especially in today's America, almost immediately that will turn into a revenge campaign and a recruitment campaign.
	And you might say, oh, Charlie, come on, you're over exaggerating.
	Arizona Christian University came out with a study right down the street, great, great school, that 40% of young people ages 16 to 22 are gay, bisexual, or transgender.
	Okay, 40%.
Normative Values Without Theocracy 00:10:42
	Now, you might think you don't believe it.
	I didn't at first, okay?
	I said this on our national radio program.
	I said this on our podcast.
	I said, I don't believe these numbers.
	No way, not happening.
	I got hundreds of emails of parents saying, Charlie, 16 out of 22, like 16 out of 20 of the kids in my daughter's class are either lesbian, gay, or bisexual.
	It's like a trendy thing now, right?
	It's almost like a thing that you almost get a social kind of currency with, right?
	And so, and some people say, well, Charlie, what's so wrong with that?
	Look, I'm not going to get too deep into it.
	I'll let the pastor, your civilization literally can't continue, okay?
	Like, I don't have to overthink this, but you literally can't replicate.
	Okay.
	So don't have to really think too deeply about that one.
	Just to tag along, Charlie, part of that sexual anarchy chapter, I go through Sodom and Gomorrah.
	Often preached about topic on Sunday morning.
	I was preaching through the life of Abraham, and I was doing verse by verse, and I ended up spending three weeks in Sodom and Gomorrah, and I discovered a couple of things.
	One of the things is those cities, if you match the name of the city with the king of that city, Sodom, it means place of burning.
	And Gomorrah essentially means place of drowning.
	So you have the king that his name means son of evil, and the other king's name means destruction.
	But there are two pictorial symbols here.
	One is burning, scorching, right?
	The other is drowning.
	And they are two natural gifts outside of the bounds of blessing.
	How many people know that a river, when it's inside the riverbed, is amazing, right?
	We fish, take our kids down to the water.
	It's a great time.
	How many know when the flood comes to our door?
	It's horrific.
	It's a horror.
	The same thing with a fire.
	And a fire is incredible.
	And we sit there with our kids and we get warmed by it.
	But if you take that fire and you say, you know what, I don't need restraints.
	This is a stupid idea.
	Fireplace, they're so dumb, right?
	They're so archaic.
	When you take the fire and you place it on the floor of the living room, we all die.
	All of us die.
	And the picture of Sodom and Gomorrah is the natural gift of sexuality outside of the bounds of constraint, which create blessing, and it consumes an entire society.
	And we are in the midst of that consuming right now.
	And the only thing we can do is call on Jesus and offer this thing that says, God has this incredible beauty.
	He initiated us in this garden, this paradise.
	That's what he has for us.
	And this other lie is something that will consume us.
	And don't let the blessing become a curse by letting it go outside of the borders and boundaries that God gave it.
	Amen.
	Let's start lining up for some questions.
	But I told you you would love David.
	I mean, he is.
	He's really special.
	And just to kind of piggyback off that point, David, which is you'll know it by the fruit, right?
	It's the most suicidal, medicated, alcohol-addicted, despondent generation in history.
	It's also the most sexually promiscuous, least moral guardrails in history.
	And one would think that there might be a connection between the two of them.
	So we'll take questions in these two areas.
	Just raise your hands, guys.
	Also, again, Good Kills by David Enkelhart.
	All of you guys watching online, you guys can check it out, Amazon, Barnes, and Noble.
	Matt, do we have a station out there with these?
	Is that right?
	Any $1, $10, $100, whatever you guys want to give to Turning Point USA, no pressure.
	Just chip in free copy of the book.
	I guess not free if you're getting money, but it's awfully affordable, right?
	Whatever your means allow you to do.
	I really want you guys to be able to do this.
	And if you're a student, we won't haggle you too hard.
	We'll probably just give you a copy anyway.
	So, all right, we'll start over here and let's try to do students or young people first, and then we'll get through the line.
	So.
	Hi, Charlie.
	You guys just talked a lot about identity, right?
	And how that can honestly destroy an entire nation.
	How much do you think identity matters, especially in the time that we're living in?
	Yeah.
	So, David, I'll let you take it, but it depends on identity and what?
	The only identity that matters to us is identity in Christ, right?
	And that's the identity that does matter and should always matter.
	It says very clearly, Paul wrote, neither slave nor Greek nor Jew.
	We are all one, free in Jesus Christ.
	It says in 1 Samuel that God does not look at the outside.
	He looks at the heart.
	He looks at the things that are inside.
	He cares much more about the things that can't be seen than the things that can be seen.
	I'll be very honest.
	Identity politics and tribalism disgusts me.
	Now, this is an interesting thing.
	So, where in America is America, where in America are we most racially divided?
	The answer is very clear.
	It's prisons, right?
	So, we never really think very deeply about this, right?
	So, the place that you're most afraid, and you have no stuff, and there's no commerce, and there's really no speech, and it's most totalitarian, that's where you're most racially divided.
	Think about that.
	I mean, if you go to a prison, it's like the whites are over there, the Mexicans are there, the blacks are there, and there's very little commingling at all.
	And why is that?
	Well, it's because it's very basic.
	It's like, yeah, we're going to try to survive in the wild.
	And we take this for granted, right?
	And so, when you go into the prison, it's like, as long as you look like me and you're willing to pledge some sort of allegiance, I'll protect you.
	So, you think about it, you're like, okay, so they're trying to re-tribalize us into a state of perpetual fear and control on authoritarianism.
	You can learn a lot by studying the American prison population, like a lot.
	You could learn about human incentives.
	You could learn about fear-based control.
	And so, that's what I'm afraid that they're trying to do with identity politics, that they're trying to re-tribalize us, that actually God breaks us free of what we were like in the wild, which is only associating with people that look like us.
	Only through the teachings of Christ do we care about what happens inside, not outside.
	And I believe that as we look at our country right now, you know, the promise of the gospel is the only thing that will quote unquote racially unify the country.
	And it seems as if that's the one thing they conveniently want to destroy and ignore.
	Yeah, I would add to that.
	The whole book of Galatians is about identity in Christ.
	The Judaizers were coming and they were saying, look, you've got to base your identity on certain actions, certain kind of political genuflections, essentially, but Christ unifies us.
	I would say the other thing about unity or identity that's interesting is Jesus says that honoring your mother and father is super, super important.
	And we live in a culture that hates not only father and mother, but hates nation, right?
	The nation hating, the term Meraka, I just, it makes me cringe because like in the term is like, I hate this place.
	It's, it's, it's despicable, right?
	It's despisable.
	Something connected with loving mother and father and loving nation, because loving mother and father, because they gave us life and we have this incredible environment that we should honor and bless.
	And the same thing that then goes upstream to nation, that we're identified with mother and father and nation, this incredible environment that God gave us that we're called to honor and bless.
	Yeah, the only commandment that comes with a promise and mentions your country is honor your mother and father.
	It's the only commandment that comes with a very specific promise and involves your nation, which is honor your mother and father so that you may live long in the land of which you are in.
	So it incorporates those two things.
	No other commandment touches on those things.
	Okay, thank you so much.
	Next question.
	My name is Micah, and I have two questions.
	One, what do you do with a friend who believes in not like you said before, the like devil worshiping thing, but like witchcraft and like different Harry Potters stuff like that.
	How old are you?
	I am 10, soon to be 11.
	Well, I want to just, you know, give you a round of applause for coming in front of this many people.
	It's awesome.
	David, you would be better equipped with this.
	I'll be honest, flee from that, especially at a young age.
	Exposure for a child to witchcraft and sorcery is no joke.
	You can digest an unclean spirit for many years.
	I'm not trying to scare you.
	I'm just being honest that when that comes up around your friends, especially the witchcraft side of it, if it's about literature and novels, I know there's mixed opinions in the church around that.
	I'd be very careful, though, still.
	The Bible is very explicit about the fruits of the spirit and the fruits of the anti-spirit, and sorcery is one of them.
	Yeah, thank you, Micah, for the question.
	I think I remember you asking a question when Eric Metaxas was here.
	Did you ask a question then?
	Yes, I remember you.
	I think for friends, you don't have to be really careful because the Bible says that we become like those we surround ourselves with, right?
	Good company corrupts bad morals.
	And so you can pray for those people, but you don't want to spend a lot of time with them.
	And you got to talk to mom and dad about who to spend your time and invest your time with.
	Cool.
	But just be careful of that stuff, especially at a young age.
	And parents, I'm not trying to spook you out, but there's very explicit Bible teachings of exposing children to sorcery and witchcraft and what's called pharmakia.
	That's a separate conversation.
	Micah, you're a good man.
	I'll be working for you one day.
	God bless you, man.
	So thank you.
	Hello.
	So, my question is: knowing how tired we are of being forced upon values by the Democrats and literal satanic religions out here, so is there a way of bringing back normative values without becoming almost a theocracy or a theological oligopoly that the pilgrims ran from, or even that was fled in like the French Revolution and back in England.
	Is there a way of doing that?
	That's a really good question.
	The founders seem to have accomplished it for a period of time.
	And what you're getting at is important, which is: so, how do you bring all these people to virtue without actually just becoming a theocracy where it's just run through the government?
	You know, the founders were very clear that pluralism did not mean accepting everything all the time.
	And so, there's this tension between liberty and what's called licentiousness.
	I know that's a really kind of heady word.
	Think of it as license, license to do everything.
	That's where the root of licentiousness comes from.
	And so, in the founding, in the founding, you know, colonial times, states had laws that forbade things that were forbidden for things that we would just kind of be considering like normal behavior, right?
	Like public drunkenness.
CRT Dividing People of God 00:13:33
	Let's just use that example, right?
	They said this is not a good thing for society.
	Now, those truths were derived from the Bible and the scriptures.
	They all said this just makes America less free.
	And it makes America, the country that we want to live in, less likely to glorify God and everything we're doing.
	The restoration, though, the tension is very, you know, difficult.
	And we must, as a church, recognize that the salvation must come through the church while also contesting in the government for righteousness and everything we are doing.
	We're far from ever becoming a theocracy in one sense, but I would argue that we're very close to becoming a theocracy in another sense: that we have a secular religion that is running our country right now.
	There is no scientific, reasonable, or rational explanation for our COVID policy the last two years, except for a religion of secular science.
	It's almost like an incantation, right?
	Their religious ceremony is getting the vaccine.
	It's like getting the Eucharist, right?
	Their virtue signal, their cross that I wear is the mask.
	Now, you might think I'm being a little bit kind of exaggerating here.
	They have religious fervor with how they have implemented this on the American Project, biomedical fascism, whatever you want to call it.
	And this is an important thing: that you get rid of organized religion like Christianity, something that imitates it will take its part, will take its part.
	It just so happens it was a moment of kind of, oh, we're going to fight systemic racism, but it's, I'm always kind of really moved by studying the left.
	I do it so you guys don't have to.
	And I thought one of the most amazing moments in the last year is like, okay, what matters the most to them, right?
	This matters more than that.
	And there was a tension at certain points.
	For example, what happens when Black Lives Matter, their favorite, their go-to activist groups doesn't want to get vaccinated.
	Doesn't matter.
	Vaccinations matter more than racial identity politics.
	What matters more when Kyrie Irving, National Basketball Association player earning $26 million a year, beloved in Brooklyn, doesn't want to get vaccinated?
	It doesn't matter.
	You have to stay at home.
	So at that moment, biomedical fascism mattered more.
	Okay, well, let's use another example.
	What happens when Dave Chappelle, a darling of the Hollywood left, gets a Netflix special, black man decides to insult, I would even say insult, make fun of the transgender alphabet mafia.
	Oh, no, no, no, you can't do that.
	Doesn't matter if you're black.
	Transgenderism in this current moment matters more than racial politics.
	You guys track you?
	It's totally confusing.
	It's intentionally supposed to be confusing, by the way.
	It's like this constant reordering of hierarchies.
	Now, I believe, and this is to go a little deeper, but you guys are smart, you'll get it.
	The transgender movement actually matters even more than biomedical fascism, and they actually are together because the transgender movement is an introductory phase to get you to strip yourself of your humanity to mesh with machines.
	It's called transhumanism.
	They want you to say, okay, well, I can choose any gender.
	Why can't I just have like an exoskeleton of some sort of machine around me?
	This is what meta is about, the metaverse, kids staring at screens all day long.
	This is documented.
	This is proven.
	This is where Silicon Valley is going.
	This is why they're so insistent on this transgender thing because if you stop being a man, then maybe you can stop being a human being.
	Maybe you can kind of just plug into some sort of machine.
	This is where their control, their profit motive is coming down the stream.
	There's a ton of literature about this.
	I'm far from the first person to comment on it, but I'm just kind of connecting the dots for all of you.
	Like, what is the agenda here?
	Well, the agenda is kind of like ready player one meets inception, where you kind of just hook up to a machine all day long and you're controlled by five companies that control your thoughts and your feelings.
	And the real world actually ends up being the not real world, where everyone just kind of wears goggles all day long.
	That's the deeper significance of the transgender movement that no one wants to talk about.
	David?
	As far as theocracy goes, whenever somebody like me says, hey, God's got really great ideas about laws, people say, what about theocracy?
	And they're like, we don't want you to bring morality into law.
	Law, every single law, all laws on the books are moral.
	Like, there's a speed limit out there.
	It says 25 miles an hour.
	That's a moral law because we're saying there's children here that we don't want to accidentally kill.
	It's not some kind of arbitrary idea that came out of humanism and we sat down with our computers and logicked it out.
	We value human life and we don't want to kill human life.
	It's a moral law and almost all moral laws have religious underpinnings unless they have arbitrary underpinnings based upon humanism.
	You know, this idea of the dark ages makes me crazy.
	This guy, Plutarch, who's the father of humanism, called this the dark ages.
	And now we all just are like, oh, yeah, that time the church ruled, that was the dark ages because a secular guy, the fathers of humanism, said it.
	And then the atheistic world or the humanistic world just interprets it and says, whenever the church has a lot of influence, it's going to get really dark.
	Watch out.
	It's actually not historically true.
	It's historically inaccurate.
	Well, and it's all about the natural law.
	And this is something that we all know exists.
	We see it around us.
	And the natural law means there's a natural lawgiver.
	And we know the proper place that human beings flourish and they don't flourish.
	Okay, next question.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	Hi, Charlie.
	As you know, I'm actually running for Congress in this area.
	Introduce yourself, Eli.
	My name is Elijah Norton.
	I'm running for Congress in the first congressional district, which is this area in Scottsdale, Paradise Valley.
	But I'm wondering, one of the things I hear about a lot on the campaign trail from parents is critical race theory and the introduction of it into our high schools, elementary schools, unfortunately, even middle schools.
	But I know you have a lot of experience going to college campuses.
	What's your experience?
	How is critical race theory being integrated in a college curriculum today?
	And what can we do about it as people who love America and who love all people, regardless of race, do to stop it and reverse the trend that is going on?
	Okay, yeah, look, and CRT is a top issue.
	And a lot of people are so confused by it.
	On our podcast, I think we've done probably one of the best jobs out there of any podcast of having subject matter experts and really explaining where this comes from and where this is going.
	Recent conversation, it's a 59-minute conversation, not an hour, 59-minute conversation with James Lindsay, who's the author of Race Marxism.
	It's so amazing because he used to call himself an atheist.
	And just this is what's so cool.
	And I don't want to speak for him, but the deeper he dives into these ideas and the more churches he visits as a quote-unquote agnostic, all of a sudden he's saying, he said this on my podcast, Charlie, I'm supposed to be an atheist and CRT is literally from the devil.
	There's no other way I can explain it.
	It's like, whoa.
	And he dives into kind of what he means by that.
	He's like, it sows division, distrust, chaos, confusion, has constantly changing rules, all the things that would be someone who would be a tyrannical usurper.
	Satan, Satan actually means prosecutor in the scriptures.
	So look, to answer your question, CRT is not just in colleges, right?
	We say often at Turning Point USA, what happens on the college campus does it not stay there?
	It then goes to the halls of Congress and to corporate boardrooms.
	But let me just give you some examples of how CRT is making America a much more dangerous and unpleasant place to live.
	We've said some of these examples before, but in New York City, no joke, you could fact check it yourself, they are distributing monoclonal antibodies when they used to actually be able to do that.
	They've now restricted the supply of that based on race, on racial preferences and racial quotas.
	So for a white couple, this is, you know this, right, David?
	A white person who has COVID in New York will be sent to the back of the line where a black couple will be given preferences.
	There's a great article, actually, believe it or not, today, in The Atlantic of all places, Communist RAG, that talks about this today.
	You can go look it up, how medical racial discrimination is ruining medicine as we know it.
	But I can give you some other examples.
	United Airlines says 50% of all their new pilots are going to be black pilots.
	I have no problem with black pilots, but I just want to make sure that competency has always been put first and not diversity, especially when, I don't know, I'm riding in an airplane, like minor details, right?
	And so it's now become policy.
	This is really important.
	And it will not change.
	And I know this sounds super like cynical.
	The only way this will change is when white liberals that have those Black Lives Matter bumper stickers on Nantucket and Malibu, when their kids start to suffer because of it.
	I don't wish suffering upon them.
	It's not what I want.
	But until their kids stop getting into the best universities, until their kids stop getting the best jobs, and they start to actually pay the price of this stuff, it's not going to change.
	The only other way it will change is when all of you start to kind of make it happen on the ground floor.
	Talk a little about CRT, David.
	Yeah, I mean, Charlie and I have spent a lot of time on CRT.
	For me, the issue is the churches need to declare truth to people.
	And in New York City, I mean, we have like 70% of the churches have a Black Lives Matter flag, a rainbow flag, flag with my face on it, and an X in the middle of it.
	We have a church that's lost its way, and we have an attractional church model that refuses to say anything controversial.
	It's like, it's like, just don't say anything potentially harmful because less people might come next week.
	Well, Gideon's army got a little bit small before they demolished the enemy.
	And so there needs to be in not just, I love the moms group.
	I love all of the stuff that's happening in public schools, but pastors need to declare to the people of God, this is incredibly evil.
	This is incredibly demonic.
	This is dividing the people of God.
	I promise you, Jesus hates CRT.
	I promise you that.
	Well, and to finish the point, Eli, when you're talking to people, it's a concern and it should be at a deeper level than all the practical ones because you feel as if you are now living in a retribalized society that you thought was dead and over with.
	This is why a lot of 60 or 70 or 80 year old voters are so animated about CRT because they're super wise and smart.
	And they're like, wait a second, like, I know where this leads.
	It's South Africa.
	It's retribalization.
	And it's like a fire alarm for a lot of older Americans, which are like, we're passing this down?
	Like, no way.
	And so I think it's a top five concern for voters for sure.
	You know, I would have to say like immigration, inflation, education, CRT.
	And there's kind of the corruption and kind of all the issues just kind of nationally happening from the top down, I think are definitely top concerns.
	But CRT is one that is increasingly unpopular with people, but they keep on putting it forward.
	So thanks for your question, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Hey, Charlie and David.
	I'll morph.
	There's a couple of questions and some commentary.
	One of the things I wanted your opinion on is I'm a Phoenix native and I've lived in North Scottsdale for 50 years.
	I was in the first four-year class of chaparro.
	And I'm not running for office, okay?
	But I've seen a lot of change.
	I do want to say, kudos to you, that I used to be kind of really involved in getting concentrated on politics, but the epiphany you brought to me was that it's at the local level and that's where the danger is.
	And so I really want to thank you.
	Thank you for saying that.
	Absolutely.
	And so I'm involved with a won't name names and stuff like that or the city.
	But what I have found, and I'm curious if you have found this, that employees of a government don't actually know they're ignorant.
	And we've seen, and when it comes down to property rights, which was the founders, one of the fundamental things, that they assume law and they don't know their own job and they're usurping, say, town council.
	Yeah.
	So look, there is that, what was that show?
	Parks and Recreation, perfect depiction of local government.
	Let me just put it that way.
	I don't know if that's probably over a lot of people's heads.
	Is that show still on?
	I don't think so.
	Look, so here's what's important.
	And I will say there's a lot of good people that work for the government, a lot of good people, right?
	I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush.
	But what you're talking about is the lethal combination, and it talks about this in the Bible, right?
	Of ignorance and arrogance, right?
	That's all of a sudden where you got a problem.
	And then you got a real problem when you got ignorance, arrogance, and power.
	You're like, okay, I can't, this is exactly why the Constitution was written, right?
	Ignorance, arrogance, and power.
	Like, we need separation of powers, checks, and balances, way too much.
	And the ultimate example of this, if you ever want to educate a child in what the Constitution was supposed to prevent, it's Anthony Fauci, right?
	I mean, far from local government, but if you kind of think about it, it's like Anthony Fauci should have like plateaued and bottomed out at Dog Catcher, right?
	Like it's just like Queen Creek Dog Catcher is about where...
	Yeah, exactly.
	And that's fine.
	Like, I'm not saying you shouldn't have a job.
	It's just like, that's about what he should do.
	Instead, he's like, I don't know, running the public health program for the entire Western world.
	And no one voted for him.
	No one campaigned for him.
	No one canvassed for him.
	He never went into an interview process.
	You never gave him power.
	And all of a sudden, he's in charge.
	And so, yeah, look, they talk about the great reset.
	That's actually going to be a theme of one of our upcoming Freedom Nights in America, where we're going to talk all about the Great Reset, what you can do about it, what they're trying to do.
	It's one of my top focuses, actually, the Great Reset Internationalist agenda.
	You got to know about it.
	But local is everything.
	And yes, I don't, I actually, I have met so many wonderful and lovely local government employees.
	And it's not even the ones that don't know what they're talking about.
	It's the ones that think they do and are willing to use political power.
	So thanks for being here tonight.
	I appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Hey, my name is Jenna.
	I'm a junior in high school.
	I'm 16.
Great Reset Internationalist Agenda 00:12:03
	And I've been doing homeschooling for like five years now.
	So I wouldn't say I'm very familiar with brick and mortar schools and that kind of thing anymore.
	I remember before I left for homeschooling, one thing I noticed was the culture that was created of sexuality and gender identity.
	And in sixth grade, this is the year that I very much prominently noticed this.
	I noticed it was everybody in their uncle was identifying as gay or bisexual or trans or non-binary or anything like that.
	And I didn't fall for it, but I saw my friends falling for it.
	And I saw my best friends going into this kind of thing.
	And it concerned me.
	But this still happens today, even five years later.
	But my question for you is: how do you steer your friends in the right direction?
	Try to show them that this is wrong, that they're falling for these things without coming off as off-putting or coming off as mean or rash to them.
	First of all, thank you for being homeschooled, or thank your parents, wherever they are for homeschooling you.
	I have three homeschool: Leon, Solomon, and Goldie are our homeschoolers in New York City.
	And I understand the conflict.
	Let me say this from a pastoral perspective.
	And a friend of mine who has testimony says, I was a homosexual kaleptomaniac.
	I just stole stuff all the time and lived in these crazy relationships in San Francisco.
	And he said, and my brother said one day that he said, bro, you're in sin.
	You're an enemy of God.
	But lucky for you, he loves his enemies.
	And he gave Jesus.
	And so he said this to me: he said, David, there is no such thing as a homosexual gospel.
	There's no specific kind of like phrase that you need.
	Now, you know, God can give you phrases to walk through, but like, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
	All of us, everyone.
	And we all can turn to Jesus with the simplest kind of like, hey, you really need God in your life.
	And really, all of the identity stuff, all of the social construct stuff, all of it has to be solved by people finding identity in Christ, or else we're all going to be consumed by that fire.
	There's not some kind of secular brick and mortar that we can establish that's going to stop the spread of sexual anarchy right now in our society.
	It's impossible.
	There's never been a society in the history of the world that has gone this far with what we call sexual anarchy and has retained its society.
	They all die.
	So that means our hope is in Jesus.
	And you know, it's incredible about the first century churches, they were birthed in Rome.
	They were birthed in a society that was steeped in immorality and debauchery.
	And God, by his grace, gave them a new identity and brought people out of it.
	And I think you can have compassionate truth.
	Those are the two words, right?
	Have compassion, not empathy, which is something we didn't touch on, but sympathy, right?
	Two different things.
	We kept David back.
	He can explain why that's not good.
	But look, I deal with this a lot.
	And, you know, we have listeners that reach out.
	They say, hey, you know, I'm struggling with homosexuality.
	I'm struggling with this.
	And I just say, find a pastor, find someone that might be able to help you with these sorts of things, right?
	Yeah, can I just say one more thing?
	This whole idea that I'm gay, I don't know if you guys know this, essentially is an idea that's only been around for the human race in the last about a century, actually less than that, about 60 years.
	No one before that had correlated or essentially synergized their identity with their sexuality.
	There were people in Rome and Phoenicia and Greece that were, that behaved in all kinds of aberrant ways, but they didn't say, this is me, this is my identity.
	And there's a book called The Rise of the Modern Self that you recommended to me by Carl Truman.
	And he says, our culture has been kind of like gone through the washing machine of Freud that says everything about you is sexual, all of it.
	Every dream you have is sexual.
	Every impulse you have has a sexual starting point.
	And this idea of the world being centered around me makes our identities about X thing.
	But my argument is that from a Christian perspective, our identities are we're sons and daughters of God.
	When we sin, we sin, but it doesn't make us a certain kind of person.
	Cool.
	Thank you so much.
	We'll take two more here and then there.
	You'll be our last one.
	Okay, so we'll start here.
	Yeah.
	Hello.
	I'm David.
	I do work with the Iron Age Archive.
	I have a question.
	Basically, there's this idea of when we see something like transgenderism and all of that stuff, we try to go back to the time where before that very anti-Christian thing happens to where we're like, let's go back to 2014 before this.
	Or let's go back to the 90s.
	Let's go back to the 50s before all of this stuff.
	Whereas I would make the case that a lot of this anti-Christian rhetoric has been happening since way longer, potentially even in like the early 1800s.
	So how do we necessarily like take the contrast between Christianity and these modern assumptions that we have that just kind of implanted through media, implanted through just all of this philosophy that has been so anti-Christian for so long?
	And there are these things that we can sort of take for granted.
	This is such an important question.
	And what you are articulating is the very same dilemma that was in front of the founders, which is what parts of modernity do we like and what parts of antiquity do we want to preserve?
	And how do we put those together?
	And so this was the challenge in front of Madison in particular, right?
	Who is the father of the U.S. Constitution?
	And if you don't know a lot about Madison, I think it would bless you.
	He was a godly man who really prayed over writing the Constitution.
	So for example, he said, look, free expression is a good thing.
	Challenging power is a good fruit of the Enlightenment.
	At the same time, you know, we want to make sure that we're always glorifying God's natural law, right?
	That we don't forsake the natural order.
	And I use that example of kind of the Satan conference, which is they would have drawn the line on that, right?
	That wouldn't have been something that would be considered acceptable, you know, speech in pursuit of virtue.
	And that's an important thing, that speech must be always in the pursuit of virtue.
	And there are other things that were fruits of the Enlightenment that are really good things, right?
	Which is the principle of consent of the governed or an independent judiciary or separation of powers.
	I'll use another example that's a really good fruit of the Enlightenment, entrepreneurialism, right?
	Prior to the Enlightenment, someone starting a business from nothing was kind of a concept that would be really kind of unknown.
	Now we kind of have it baked into us that people all the time have been starting businesses to start.
	That's a beautiful fruit of the Enlightenment, right?
	That someone could have a really good idea and start a business and hire people and improve the community around them.
	And so that's really the task in front of the church and the conservative movement, which is what do we preserve that we like from the Enlightenment?
	And there's some things from the Enlightenment that we don't like, by the way.
	For example, humanism, secularism, and subjectivity.
	For example, find your own truth, figure it out yourself.
	Like that's a really bad thing that came out of the Enlightenment.
	And we should be unafraid to say that.
	And so there's a lot of books written about this.
	There's one I would recommend.
	He talks about this in a variety of different ways called Age of Entitlement by Christopher Caldwell.
	Probably the best book written in the last two years.
	I encourage you to check it out.
	Thank you so much.
	All right.
	You'll be our last question.
	How's it going, Charlie?
	Pastor.
	I appreciate your time.
	With the mass hysteria around COVID not really aligning with the data, what do you think the real heart behind the vaccine push is with numbers pretty much for the longest saying that it was a 99% survival rate?
	Do you think that it is just fear on the left, or do you think it's something more cynical?
	You know, I think it's a mixture of both.
	I think it's induced fear.
	Great question.
	Thank you.
	It's induced fear, but also I think it's a dry rehearsal.
	I really do.
	I think they want to try to destroy bodily autonomy, individual agency, and they want to try to blur the line between your own ability to make choices and the state mandating it.
	Whatever they might want to do next, I think this was a trial run.
	And I think they've actually been somewhat disappointed at how many hiccups and speed bumps.
	The last one shows, and again, I'm not making a statement on the F, if you got vaccinated, I'm not trying to say this.
	I'm just saying, though, that the fact that 37% of Americans, after all this propaganda, have still decided not to get vaccinated, I think that really surprises a lot of people in charge.
	I really do.
	And I think they're like, wow, that's kind of stunning me.
	And again, I'm not, if you got the vaccine, I'm not saying you made the wrong decision.
	That's not my position.
	I'm just saying that's pretty unique.
	So in my opinion, or it's unprecedented, I should say, in my opinion, they were trying to condition us.
	They were trying to get us into a posture where all of a sudden we accept the moving of the Overton window, right?
	So the Overton window is what my next book is going to be about, two books from now.
	I'll explain that later, which I think is the most important thing that happens in America that no one talks about.
	John Overton, I think that was his first name, right, Connor?
	John?
	Yeah.
	He worked for the Mackinac Institute in Michigan.
	He came up.
	He was a political theorist.
	He said, hey, everything in America moves on a spectrum of things that we would once considered to be unthinkable, eventually to public policy.
	And these things move back and forth, and it's a continuum.
	It's the most important continuum, not right versus left, but the continuum of unthinkable to public policy.
	And there's other intermediary steps, right?
	Unthinkable to radical to all entertainment to acceptable to popular to policy, right?
	And so you think about like defund the police, right?
	Like 30 years ago, that's an unthinkable idea.
	Now it's policy, right?
	Chemical castration of children without their parents' permission.
	Unthinkable.
	Now it's policy.
	Mandating people without their consent, unthinkable.
	They wanted to move the window, right?
	For whatever they might have planned next.
	And if you study the Great Reset, you study what they have coming next, it makes perfect sense, right?
	The Great Reset is no borders, no bodily autonomy.
	You own nothing, no private property.
	We're going to be in control of your decisions, all these sorts of things.
	But I will say, they failed.
	They're backing off.
	The mandates are ending.
	It was a big win for the citizens.
	David.
	I don't know why.
	I mean, certainly, Charlie and I have talked a lot about this.
	I think people in their conscious mind walk through life believing they're doing good for other people.
	And subconsciously, they know they're getting certain gains and at the sake of other people or rights.
	That's totally fine.
	If I'm Bill Gates, I'm going to help the whole world by enslaving them.
	He's moving forward with an idea that he's going to help the entire world, right?
	And so that was the lie from the Garden of Eden.
	You're empowered if you do this thing.
	But ultimately, that subjection to the lie doesn't empower you.
	It disempowers you and it enslaves you to sin.
	And so that's why truth is so essential.
	And that's why Americans need to continue to, you know, I mean this, prop up voices like Charlie that are truth voices because we need truth in order to apply the Christian moral ethic and even just a rational moral ethic.
	Yeah, the last thing I'll say on this, the first line of Aristotle's ethics, which is one of the great ethics books ever written, is that all human behavior points at some good.
	That's a weird thing to say, isn't it?
	Now, you have to take out the sociopathic or the clinically insane.
	But yeah, Joseph Stalin thought he was doing the right thing.
	More evil has been done in the name of good.
	And it says in scriptures in Isaiah, woe to you who call good evil and evil good.
	And so look, Klaus Schwab and George Shoros, they think they're doing the good thing.
	They think they are doing you a favor by mandating vaccines and opening your borders and hiring DAs that don't enforce crimes.
	They've convinced themselves that is the angelic and the correct thing for you to do.
	And isn't it then the most important thing?
	Well, what is good?
	Well, thankfully, we have the Bible and God to tell us what is good.
	So God bless you, man.
	Thank you so much.
	Give it up, everybody, again, for David Engelhart.
	We will see you guys next month.
	God bless you guys.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
	You can email me directly, freedom at charliekirk.com or get involved with turningpointusa at tpusa.com.
	Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
	God bless.
	For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

Chapters

00:00:00 Turning Point USA Sponsorship
00:03:39 Freedom Square Name Change
00:15:34 Church Stand and Prayer Fasting
00:23:09 God Values Freedom Over Safety
00:35:25 Divine Freedom vs Human Safety
00:46:26 Normative Values Without Theocracy
00:57:08 CRT Dividing People of God
01:10:42 Great Reset Internationalist Agenda