Joe Walsh | Will There Be A Viable Third Party In The United States? | OAP #40
Chase Geiser is joined by Joe Walsh.
Walsh was born in 1961 in North Barrington, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. He earned his bachelor's in English from the University of Iowa in 1985. After graduation, Walsh studied acting, and then earned a master's in public policy from the University of Chicago in 1991.[5]
Walsh worked as a community college teacher, fundraiser, and researcher for private foundations and advocacy groups, including Americans for Limited Government, the United Republican Fund, and the John and Kathleen Buck Family Foundation.[6]
He first ran for elected office in 1996, when he challenged Rep. Sidney Yates (D) for U.S. House.[6]
Walsh defeated Melissa Bean (D) to represent Illinois' 8th Congressional District in 2010 as part of the wave election that saw 63 seats change hands from Democrats to Republicans. Walsh lost his re-election bid in 2012 to Tammy Duckworth (D).[6]
Following his exit from Congress, Walsh launched The Joe Walsh Show, a conservative talk radio show. It debuted on WIND Chicago in March 2013, and began receiving syndication in other major U.S. cities by early 2014. In February 2017, it was picked up for national syndication by the Salem Radio Network, and became part of Newsmax TV in May 2018.
Walsh ran for President of the United States in 2020.
So back in 2009 is when you served representing Chicago, is that right?
2007.
You ran in 2009.
Yeah, uh, won the uh got into the race in nine.
I was elected in 2010, sworn in early 2011 and served until January of 2013.
I was part of that Tea Party class.
Yeah, yeah.
And uh there was some redistricting and stuff that went on in uh at that time too, because the census was in 2010.
Is that right?
Yes.
So uh I I represented a district in Illinois.
Uh the Democrats controlled Illinois then, they control it now.
So I was drawn out of a district.
In fact, they drew a district for now U.S. Senator Tammy Duckworth.
Wow.
So that must that must have been frustrating for you.
It will Chase, it was, but to be honest, uh the Republicans probably wanted me out of Washington every bit as much as the Democrats did, probably more.
So I know that um that like fairly recently you've been sort of a contankurous uh I don't I don't even I don't think right right wing is the right word for you necessarily, but but uh I could see how you know you wouldn't necessarily be the person that would just follow all the party rules, right?
You're an independent thinker, you have your own ideas, and you're not going to make any sort of compromises about your principles or your convictions for the sake of telling a party line.
So I could see how that would have been something that would have been frustrating for Republicans uh back in 2010.
Oh, absolutely, Chase.
Look, when I was there, I I I came in and and there were a group of us young conservatives, and we were probably as pissed off at the Republican establishment as we were the Democrats.
Look, I ran because I was all about the debt and the size of government, and you know, like I know, Republicans are every bit as guilty when it comes to the debt as Democrats are.
Yes.
Well, I mean, we saw a lot of spending last year, and I do want to specifically talk to you about Trump because I am a Trump supporter, although reluctantly, um, mostly because everybody I hate hates him.
So you know, you know, and so I consider myself um a much more fiscally conservative person than obviously Trump behaved.
Um, but I just I I really embraced and you might have some insight on this that I don't, but I really embraced the populism uh of Trump.
Uh in even if not in action and rhetoric, I embrace it it just resonated with me uh to hear someone who was unashamedly at least saying America first, this sort of populist kind of nationalist message really resonated with like my upbringing of patriotism and freedom and everything that America, you know, the flag, all the stuff, right?
And so I know that you know that you can quibble about uh you know Trump, whether or not he actually led or had policy that lined up with that sort of rhetoric, but it was certainly something that got him elected and you know explains uh sort of my support for him, my enthusiasm for him.
So and I and I hear that, and what makes me kind of an unusual guy is I'm a never Trumper.
I can't stand him, but I voted for him in 2016.
I I wasn't a never Trumper.
I I understand why Trump got elected.
The same people who voted for Trump, you know, voted for me, uh, listened to me on the radio, and you're right.
Uh he uh he sang a populist tune.
Uh look, our politics is fucked up, it's messed up.
Both parties suck, and most of the American people are fed up with both parties.
We needed a disruptor.
Trump was that.
Um, and so it made sense.
I understand why he got elected, probably like you do.
So um, why do you hate him so much?
You can dig into it.
We don't have time in this podcast, Chase.
Uh I'll I'll go with where I just stopped.
We needed a disruptor.
Um, I've got populism in my blood.
I understand it.
Uh, there are good disruptors and bad disruptors.
Um, he's a bad disruptor because he's a thoroughly horrible human being.
Uh, and I can't get over that.
I can't get over the fact that he doesn't believe a thing he says, that he lies every time he opens his mouth.
I can't get over the fact, Chase, that he uh and you and I can get into a good respectful conversation.
Oh, of course, of course.
But but our our government was attacked on January 6th.
That's a big deal.
I'd never seen that in my life.
You haven't seen that in your life.
Trump incited that because he spouted a dangerous lie.
So I just look, Chase, I I consider Donald Trump to be an authoritarian.
I'm a limited government guy.
Big government scares me.
There's nothing more big government than a wannabe authoritarian.
I think that's what Trump is.
Yeah, that's that's interesting.
You know, I I struggle with the incitement aspect of it because you know, I think a lot of our um uh neighbors on the left uh try to try to ascribe the incite, the inciting of what happened on January 6th directly to the speech before.
And I think it was really more like you know, three hours after election night or you know, and in you know, I struggle because um, you know, I I am very open to the idea that there was that there was cheating.
I think there's been cheating in our elections for 150 years to some to some extent, not necessarily cheating that resulted in you know a different outcome.
I don't you know, I'm not prepared to say that.
I'm not confident enough to say that.
But um, you know, I'm open, I'm totally open to believing that there was some sort of fraud that happened in the election, just as I, you know, I think there isn't in every election.
But what uh what alarmed me about Trump was how certain he was of the fraud night of the election, right?
It's like, all right, well, you know, if there was fraud, it's gonna take audits and weeks and months to to get to the bottom of it.
So, you know, regardless of whether or not there was fraud, I think it I do think that it was inappropriate for him to be so to be so vocally certain that there was before anybody could have known for sure, right?
Uh Chase, you are spot on.
That speech he gave that morning, that was irrelevant.
Um the the when I say Trump incited that attack, I agree more with you that it was what he said from the election on.
The election was stolen.
Biden didn't win fair and square.
And I gotta remind everybody, Chase.
Uh Trump started talking about this last summer, months before the election, is when Trump first said, either I win or it will be stolen from me.
He was planting the seeds for the big lie even before the election.
Again, I'm in a weird spot because I'm not some crazy liberal or progressive.
I come from the Republican base.
And I've I engage with hundreds, sometimes thousands of Trump supporters every day.
They all believe the election was stolen.
They believe Trump's lie.
So he didn't, and it is a lie.
And and and Chase, final thing I'll say is Joe Biden won for the first time in American history.
We had a sitting president who did not concede, who did not congratulate the winner, who did not participate in that glorious American thing of the transfer of power.
What a son of a bitch.
What a selfish, un-american, dangerous thing to do.
And his people then went to Washington to try to overturn the election.
It's hideous.
It's dangerous.
So let me let me ask you your thoughts on January 6th specifically.
So I I absolutely agree with you that what happened was that was totally inappropriate.
I I think it was criminal, it was over the line.
No qualms there.
It was not just none of that behavior was justified.
Okay.
But I really struggle with the the rhetoric of you know an insurrection.
Like to me, it just seems like a mob that like got out of control.
I I don't think that it was an actual coup.
I just think it was a protest that was totally unruly.
Like unruly is an understatement.
I mean, someone died.
Okay.
So I understand that this was an astronomical problem, but I don't like I don't like hearing Pelosi and the Biden administration throwing around this like insurrection language and this, you know, white supremacy is the number one threat.
It's a national security.
Like it seems to me like just as Trump kind of set up everything for, you know, like in case I lose, I'll have this plan B. It seems to me like the left is sort of setting up like some sort of uh uh a narrative that's gonna allow for you know increased domestic security or surveillance.
I don't know.
I'm not I'm not conspiratorial, but I'm I'm wary of big government too.
And and I, you know, I'm I'm really alarmed with some of the language I hear, some of some of the what the left is using, you know, January 6th as an excuse to try to accomplish, it seems like.
Fair point.
Chase, fair point.
And again, I'm not of the left, and I don't know why why Pelosi or the Democrats say what they say.
I'm a hardcore Tea Party conservative, and I'm comfortable using the term insurrection.
It was an attack against our government.
Uh, it was a violent attack, uh, with the direct aim, and you could call them bumbling idiots, but with the direct aim of trying to overturn an American election.
You think that's what they were trying to do?
You may yeah, you but Chase, you uh and context here is important, and you're right in that maybe 20 to 30,000 Trump supporters went to Washington that day.
Maybe of the 20 to 30,000, maybe a thousand or two marched on the Capitol, and maybe of that thousand or two, maybe five hundred to a thousand went there violently to storm the Capitol to overturn the election.
So fair point.
The vast majority of Trump supporters in Washington that day were peacefully protesting the election.
But the 500 to a thousand who stormed the Capitol, it's clear what they were trying to do.
And maybe you'd agree with me.
Um maybe this select committee is bullshit, maybe it's partisan.
But to me, it was a big enough deal that I wish Republicans had gone along with having a bipartisan commission.
I think we ought to look to find out why it happened to maybe help make sure it never happens again.
But I gotta tell you, my former Republican colleagues, Chase, they got no interest at all in looking into the why it happened and what happened.
That's just well, then they don't want to look into it because they don't want Trump supporters not to vote for him, but they also didn't want to be supportive of what happened on the sixth because that they could be you know associated with insurrection because you you you notice on the sixth that a lot of the Republicans that were going to have like a protest vote and not certify or whatever, they all back down, right?
They kind of chickened out, and it's like it just it is you know, not not that I agreed with them having a protest vote and not certifying, but it just seemed like okay, you guys don't actually have principles, you're just doing whatever is politically convenient.
It's yeah, and Chase, again, this won't surprise you.
I so for three and a half years, I've been publicly out against Trump.
I ran an impossible primary challenge to him.
Um most of my former Republican colleagues in Congress privately, most of them agree with what I say publicly about Trump.
Yeah, the party never liked him.
They wanted to.
And they're afraid to say, well, but they're afraid to come out against him now because I'll be the first to admit it's Trump's party.
He's the leader of the party.
Um, the Republican base is with him.
If Donald Trump wants to run again for president, no Republican will challenge him.
I I'm somebody who's anti-Trump.
I couldn't get elected to anything in the Republican Party.
I get that.
That's fine.
That's where the party is.
These guys know it too.
So they keep their mouths shut because they want to get elected.
What did you did?
You read the revolver news um article about January 6th and the FBI's alleged involvement.
Did you did you follow that story at all?
I I did not read that article.
I don't know specifically.
And and again, this is something that should be investigated, right?
I I agree.
I think there's no doubt, because Chase, I have concerns.
Again, I don't think Trump's speech that day did anything.
But there were signs and there was intelligence that troublemakers were coming that day.
Why were we so damn unprepared?
That needs to be investigated.
All of it, what did the FBI do know?
And and how come our intelligence agencies didn't prepare law enforcement?
These are all questions that need to be answered, I think.
Yeah, I'm really I'm generally concerned about the intelligence community in the United States, because you know, one thing I I often think about the fall of Rome and you know, could try to compare it to what's going on in the United States, and there's things like you know, currency debasement or hyper expansion.
But you know, one thing that's unique about the United States that we haven't seen in societies really up until the 19th, 20th century, is that there weren't these secret police intelligence communities.
And you know, I think that we have a unique vulnerability in terms of historically in that when the FBI gets caught doing something wrong, they conduct an internal investigation, you know.
So it's like like there's no checks and balances on the intelligence community, right?
And they don't have to tell politicians anything unless they have need to know, right?
And so it seems to me like we like I don't want to use the term deep state just because of its connotations, but it seems to me that we have major elements of our government and our military operating with sort of no oversight.
Um so people like you and I who fear big government, eternal vigilance is our code, and we always have to hold the FBI accountable for what they do, uh, the NSA, all of our intelligence agencies.
I agree with you, Chase.
And I generally had a voting record where I was very weary about uh giving further control and power to our intelligence agencies.
But again, and so there's some truth in what you say, but this is why Trump is so bad.
Our FBI generally chase the the men and women who worked for, say, our FBI, the 37,000 of them, the vast majority of them are good public servants, just like the vast majority of police officers in this country are good public servants.
But in 2016, we elected a president who like declared war on our intelligence agencies.
Uh where I come from, Chase, Putin's a bad guy.
Russia's the bad guy.
Our FBI isn't the bad guy.
There are bad apples in the FBI, but they're not the bad guy.
Trump flip flipped this stuff on its head.
Uh, and that's really, really dangerous again.
Well, do you think he was do you think he was miffed because he was spied on?
Here's what no, here's what here's what again, and Mayton Chase, you you probably won't go there with me.
That's fine.
That's what makes conversation.
I'll go wherever you I'll go wherever you want, but I uh you know, I just like hanging out with you, man.
I'm uh this is not like I'm not like pissed off or anything.
No, no, no, in where in where I'm about to go with Trump.
I think Trump's one of the worst human beings who's ever lived.
Here's what happened, Chase.
Trump won in 2016.
We had the intelligence that Russia fucked with our election.
It's clear.
All of Trump's people know in 2016, Russia screwed with our election to try to help Trump.
So Trump wins, he finds that out, and what does Trump do?
He gets pissed off because he thinks that's gonna take away from his victory.
Let me I'll finish.
I'm sorry, yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead.
No, I want to hear what you have To say if Donald Trump, after he won in 2016, discovering this story that Russia interfered with our election, if Donald Trump then, as the new president then had said, time out, that can't happen.
I'm going to appoint a blue ribbon commission or whatever to investigate what Russia did.
Trump would have been a hero and he would have been elected in a landslide.
But he couldn't do that because all Trump cares about is Trump.
So he got defensive about his victory, and that started this four-year war with our intelligence folks.
So how do you feel about all the impeachments?
I mean, as much as you hate Trump, do you think that was that was an appropriate way to address the antagonism toward him?
Well, uh if I were in the House, I've said publicly I would have voted to impeach him both times.
I think it it was warranted both times.
I believe that Donald Trump encouraged Russia to screw with the election.
I know, because I read every inch of the Mueller report four times, that Donald Trump obstructed justice.
So yes, I would have impeached him.
And then the second time, Chase, Donald Trump using his again, he's a dictator.
He used his position in government to pressure another foreign government to screw with our election.
This is the stuff of dictators.
You can't do that.
Uh hell yes, he deserved to be impeached a second time.
And again, Chase, I'm not a Democrat, and I give the Democrats no quarter.
But we had a guy in the White House who believed he was above the law.
That scares the hell out of me.
Yeah, that's that's that's interesting.
I mean, obviously, the details on like the Moeller report and other whether or not it was quit pro quo, and those details are you know are are disputed uh among avid supporters of Trump.
But you know, I don't want to like get into details with that because I don't I'm not well versed enough to make the argument.
So I I don't know.
I just I'm just very interested to hear your perspective.
I think I think open to that.
Chase, you are right in that there's a populist streak in America.
Most Americans think the Republicans suck, they do.
Most Americans think the Democrats suck, they do.
Our political system is broken.
Donald Trump tapped into that.
That's a good thing.
He he's just a horrible guy.
Now, hopefully, a better person can continue to tap into what I believe is a good, healthy populist streak in America.
So let me ask you this.
Do you think that Joe Biden is a good human being?
I think he's a good human being.
Do I think he's a good president?
Probably not.
I look, um, everybody, every politician, Chase, is complicated.
There's good and bad, but I think, yeah, I uh uh Barack Obama, who I probably disagreed with on everything, I think is a good human being.
AOC, who I disagree with on probably everything, I think she's basically a good human being.
I just can't say that about Trump.
Man, I see AOC strikes me as somebody who's just dishonest all the time.
Maybe I'm full of shit.
I don't know.
That's so interesting.
You well, what's interesting, Chase, like you'd acknowledge that Trump lies a lot, right?
Uh yeah, I would acknowledge that Trump lies a lot.
Yes.
But you'd probably say you'd probably say a bunch of other politicians lie as much.
I've had that thought.
Yeah.
No, I hear you.
Yeah, but uh, but I don't think every politician lies.
I don't think I don't think of Rand Paul as a liar.
But I do think of AO, maybe you know him better than I do, so maybe he is a liar and you know.
But he doesn't he doesn't strike me as one.
But you know, uh, but I think of when I think of AOC, I think of someone who knows exactly what she's doing and doesn't necessarily believe any of the shit that she says, but knows what she's got to do in order to make it roll.
That's interesting, Chase.
I look at AOC and I see an ardent young, committed socialist.
And I think she generally's young, but I think that's certainly her brand.
Yeah, she genuinely has these beliefs.
Now, those taking pictures outside of a parking lot and pretending that she's looking at immigrants and crying, like they crying.
Like, come on.
No, no doubt, no doubt.
You're right.
A bunch of politicians do all this.
Look, I used to be close to Rampall.
I voted for Ramp Paul in 2016.
Um, I didn't think he'd fall uh for Trump like he did.
It makes me sad.
That's really interesting.
Can we talk a little bit about TP USA?
Or do you want do you want to avoid that subject?
I don't avoid anything, my friend.
That's what I thought.
That's why I'm glad you're on the show.
So can you tell me?
So I recently became interested in TP USA because of the Brandy Love story, what happened last week in, I think it was a Tampa.
Yeah.
And I you're familiar with the story, right?
They kicked her out because she's a porn star.
And actually had her on the show last week.
She's really super nice.
And um uh I wanted to hear your story about what it was like getting involved in TP USA in the beginning, what it's actually like was supposed to be about, and then why you left.
So I was there at the beginning.
I knew Charlie Kirk when he was in high school.
I helped him start TP USA.
Uh I loved the original mission.
It was a great mission because there was a huge need.
Uh, the mission of TP USA was to go on to college campuses and spread the gospel of freedom, free markets, and limited government.
Amen.
Uh still says that on the website.
Does it?
Um the problem is, and why I left TP USA is because Charlie Kirk, uh, the minute Trump came on the scene, he basically went to work for Trump, and they became a pro-Trump organization.
Instead of advancing the issues, he was all about advancing Trump and Trumpism.
And I'll just give you one example.
And I have inside knowledge, Chase, because I I know Charlie well, but TP USA before Trump rightly railed about the debt under Obama every day, rightly.
The minute Trump became president, TP USA stopped talking about the debt or the size of government.
And Chase, I warned Charlie about this.
I said, if you tie yourself to a president, you're gonna have a hard time criticizing that president.
I would have said the same thing, Chase, when Reagan was president 40 years ago.
TP USA's unique brand was they're not tied to any politician, they're about the issues, and they'll go after Republicans or Democrats if they're bad on freedom, free markets, and limited government.
TP USA became a Trump organization almost overnight.
That's when I left.
Well, they certainly blew up as a result.
They they they just saw the apple hanging from the tree and they had to take a bite.
And and and Chase, in their defense, who didn't do that?
I mean, all of my former, I mean, nobody did what I did.
It's it's not good to do what I did.
If you do what I did, you lose all of that.
If you don't take a bite of that apple, in fact, if you go after that apple, you lose your radio show, you'll never get elected again.
Uh so Charlie Kirk didn't do anything differently than uh everybody else in the conservative.
Do you think he sold out, or do you think he bought it?
You know, because you could be wrong and you know, still have good character.
Chase, that's a really good question.
I know Charlie well enough to know that there's a big part of him that sold out, and I I can't go into that now, but I think I think there's a big part of him that sold out.
To me now, he's become like the biggest and most disgusting grifter out there.
Uh, and there are a bunch of grifters, but I don't know.
I'm sure he believes some of it.
That's interesting.
What were your thoughts about um their decision to uh uninvite Brandy Love?
I think it's bull crap.
I think it's bull crap.
She's correct me if I'm wrong, Chase.
She's a pretty good conservative, right?
Yeah, it has been for her whole life.
I mean, so my knowledge.
So excuse me, she's a porn star.
So Charlie Kirk, Charlie Kirk, who sold his soul to a guy who had sex with a porn star six months after his son was born, that would be Trump.
Uh, disinvites a conservative porn star from a conference.
I thought it was kind of bullshit.
Well, and and they had a they had an atheist speaking at the conference who wrote a book.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah, and I don't want to say his name because I don't want to throw him under the bus.
I don't think he'd care, but I'm a big fan of him.
I'm not an atheist, but I'm a fan of him.
I think he's a really smart guy.
And you know, so I don't blame him for having him speak, but it's just you know, it's sort of a hypocritical to say, listen, you're being you're you're immoral, you're against our conservative values.
We need to ask you to leave, and then at the same time, you know, you have an atheist speaking on stage.
Kind of like absolutely so my point is my point isn't that they shouldn't have had the atheists speak.
My point is that they should have let Brandy stay.
And I have to be absolutely clear.
I agree.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I I wish they wouldn't have done that.
She's she's a sweetheart, you know, she's a very, very nice person and genuine, and she wasn't there to do any marketing or exploit the situation.
She's got a net worth of millions.
She's ranked number nine on Pornhub.com.
I mean, she's she's she's she's already made it.
Like she wasn't there, it wasn't some sort of like you know, gimmick where she was just trying to get a lot of press.
She's not like an up-and-comer, she's been in the business for 16 years with her husband.
And uh, you know, say what you will, I understand it's a controversial industry, and you know, I I respect people who have reservations about it for sure, but I mean it's like she was not there just to exploit situations, you just wanted to watch people speak and talk in and hear some hear conservative ideas.
It was a hypocritical, cheap thing to do.
It was uh yeah, it was a cowardly thing to do.
So, one thing I've noticed, you know.
Um I'd love to get your feedback on this because one of the things that I think was really hurt the Republican Party among like the millennial and younger generation, is just it's it's got this brand of uh having been like a very dogmatic party with like a lot of evangelism sort of at the core, you know, going back to like gay rights and the holdouts on on gay marriage and things of that nature, and I think that did a lot of long-term damage for the brand of the party when you know those sorts of decisions and and positions that the party had.
And I thought that we'd kind of moved away from that, but I've noticed that it seems to be coming back with with a vengeance.
And I think that it might have to do with um the way that social media works in that when you are trying to be an influencer, whether you're Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk, or whomever, you tend to post content that gets the most engagement, and you learn from the engagements what kind of content to continue to post.
And it seems to me that if you have a social media situation where evangelicals are 10x more likely to engage with content than you know, just sort of average, you know, moderate people, then it's it could it can drive the influencers to become more radical in terms of whether it's socialism, whether it's Marxism, whether it's feminism, whether it's e evangelism, right?
And I think that we might be witnessing social media actually radicalizing our influencers more than necessarily the people.
And so I think that's why you're seeing weird stuff like TPS TP USA, you know, telling people to leave.
It just it doesn't make any sense.
Like I don't think it would have happened four years ago or five years ago.
The other thing, Chase, is TP USA's donor base, is is mainly older white uh Christian men and women.
That that so I I think but I I think you're right.
I think that's the problem.
Social media exacerbates this.
Um, but the problem, Chase, is you got people like Charlie Kirk and a bunch of others like him.
Every day, they're feeding the base uh to get clicks and to get on Tucker Carlson's show and to get all of this stuff, but it's a shrinking base.
The Republican Party right now is the party of old white men and old white women.
Uh it's a dying political party.
It's becoming in my mind a regional party, much less than a national party.
Uh And you're right.
Young people want nothing to do with it.
Women want nothing to do with it.
People of color want nothing to do with the Republican Party because it's perceived to be a party of uh culture warriors.
It's all about the culture war.
Um, and it's all about, again, uh preserving kind of white Christian America.
That's that's a shrinking base.
So what do you think is gonna happen in the next 10 years?
Do you think there's gonna be a third party that comes along and just smacks everybody around?
You're younger than me, man.
You got some cool stuff coming your way.
Chase, I think I think the Republican Party is dying before our eyes.
I agree.
Uh for 168 years, we've had this Democratic Republican duopoly.
I think it's breaking up.
I think you will see a viable third party in this country within uh four to eight years.
I mean a So is that what you're working on in DC right now?
Kinda, sorta.
Um I think I'd love to talk to you offline about that.
I've got some ideas.
Good.
I think it's coming.
Uh uh uh Chase, a radically centrist, let's get stuff done kind of a party.
Um, I think it's coming.
Uh the Democrats have their issues, they're being pulled to the left, to the left, to the left.
That's not where most Americans are.
So I believe, and I was saying this before Trump first got elected.
We are living through, in my mind, the third American revolution.
Uh, and I I think not to be conf not to be confused with the third Reich.
Yeah, not at all.
I believe, Chase, it's it's it's an open question as to whether this great experiment can stay together.
Yeah, I'm worried about it too.
I I um, you know, a lot of people throw around, oh, you know, we're gonna secede, and it's like you guys just don't get how much that sucks.
Like that that's that's like the absolutely worst outcome possible.
Uh and but you know, it but it could happen.
It could happen.
But I I think people, you know, when they think of when they think of secession or when they think of revolution, they think of Mel Gibson and the Patriot, and they don't realize it's like you know, watching your house burn down.
You know, or or you know, your neighbors like disappearing in the middle of the night.
Like that's what that looks like.
It's not pretty.
It's there's no glory, there's no heroism.
I mean, there is heroism all the time, but it's mostly a tragedy, you know.
And I just I hope it never comes to that.
But you know, it's you know, I don't I don't think our federal government was ever supposed to be as much of a player as it is.
And you know, I think other fathers would have done a couple things differently uh in the Constitution had they known how this was going to manifest to restrict that even more explicitly.
But uh we've gotten to a point where you know in 1776 the population in the United States was two million, and now the population is 360 million, and the federal government is like basically centralized authority, and it was decentralized back then, you know.
So it's like I don't know what's gonna happen, but uh hopefully we can we can get some serious things fixed.
What do you think the solution is?
What's the solution?
I think uh Chase, I think one solution is we need more than two political parties.
I really, really do.
Um and and the second the second solution is, and I don't know how we ever do this, the federal government, you're right, is way, way, way, way, way too big.
Uh I don't know how we ever reverse that.
Uh in state governments have abdicated so much of their power.
And truthfully, Congress, the legislative branch has advocated too much of its power.
I I think we need to look also at election reform, the way we elect people, maybe look at like rank choice voting.
Um, I'm a conservative, but I I don't really support the electoral college.
I I think we're in for some major reform coming up.
Very interesting.
So where can uh where can people follow you?
On Twitter, they can follow me at Walsh Freedom.
Um I've got a couple new ventures coming up.
If they want to know what I'm doing, follow me on Twitter at Walsh Freedom.
I also right now put out a podcast called F Silence.
Go to F F as in Frank, F Silence Podcast.com.
Uh go there, subscribe to the podcast, and you'll know what I'm doing as well.
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.
It's been a real uh pleasure to have you.
I really appreciate it.
And let's uh definitely make an effort to uh stay in touch.
