One American - Chase Geiser - Ian Miles Cheong, Nicki Clyne, & Andrew Stern Are Live On One American Podcast

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July 6, 2021 - One American - Chase Geiser

01:56:33

Ian Miles Cheong, Nicki Clyne, & Andrew Stern Are Live On One American Podcast | OAP #26

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	What's up, man?
	Good.
	I mean, uh yeah, I'm good.
	I should probably use my like main camera, shouldn't like this thing here, as you can see.
	Oh yeah, yeah.
	Hop on.
	Hop on on on that and I'll let you back in.
	No, no, no.
	Take us on like an MTV cribs.
	Uh oh yeah, yeah.
	Give us a tour.
	Give us a tour of your place.
	Let's see the beanie collection.
	It's my my office, right?
	This is my office, right?
	Nice.
	Very good.
	And walking through the So very little time spent in there.
	Uh yeah.
	This is my kitchen.
	You know, it's uh like here's my uh boy what you call it like cast iron.
	Yeah.
	That's nice for self-defense.
	Yeah, it's perfect for self-defense.
	I'm walking around my house.
	Um here's the the den, the living room here, you know, my big TV.
	Oh, nice.
	Uh chair like to sit on, you know, I'm gonna go upstairs.
	Why not?
	Yep.
	Love it, man.
	Looks sweet.
	You just got the house like within the last year, right?
	Yeah, this year, this year, yeah.
	Like a few months.
	Congratulations.
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	I got way too many hats, which I never use.
	I've never seen the wear hat.
	Actually, that's interesting.
	I used to wear them like every day.
	Yeah, I don't anymore.
	But here's my bedroom.
	Nice epic.
	I like that.
	I like the ceiling a lot.
	Yeah, I know.
	I know.
	It's pretty pretty cool, isn't it?
	Oh yeah.
	Like, and and the bathroom is like hidden behind here, you know.
	Like a secret.
	Nice.
	Yeah.
	So if you have if you have a girl over or something, she's like, Can I use your bathroom?
	like if you can find it here's a bathroom yeah Ian, I like this.
	This is I I like the black and white theme.
	You got the black ceilings and doors and the and the walls.
	It matches the shirt and the hair right now.
	Yeah.
	It's a whole thing.
	It's a whole look.
	So did you change your personal style to match the house, or did you change the house to match your personal style?
	I had my house uh custom designed by interior decorators, uh based on my uh mood board I had prepared.
	What's a mood board?
	Uh it's like when you make like I don't know, like you know, Pinterest, right?
	Not is it Pinterest?
	Yeah, Pinterest, yeah.
	When you just get like a whole bunch of pictures and then you set up like a page there, that's like a mood board.
	So you know it's got your aesthetic there.
	Oh, it's a bunch of examples.
	Yeah, a bunch of examples.
	So you know, I I looked through a bunch of different sites, you know, like uh interior decorating sites and so on, uh, to get that proper look.
	Yeah.
	So no, that would be like an amazing troll if if we found like uh an interior design company that worked primarily with celebrities and we hacked into their systems and changed all the mood boards that they had on file for clients.
	I I feel like you must have taken photos from like uh an evil uh a villain's evil lair stuck in the side of a mountain in Norway.
	Is that about right?
	It's it's definitely a Nordic look, right?
	It's a kind of like a dark Nordic uh design.
	Yeah.
	It kind of reminds me of the villain's place in uh watchmen.
	I forget his name.
	I love it.
	Oh yeah, that's a beautiful place.
	Yeah, I love that.
	That's totally nice.
	I'm just figuring out my camera here so I can you know position it for myself.
	Yeah, yeah, cool.
	Yeah.
	So how do um first of all, Ian?
	Uh the other guy that I have on this call is my close family friend Andrew, whom I know personally, and he's been up before.
	I just want you guys to meet each other.
	He's um uh I wanted him to join us um uh for a couple reasons, just because he's one of my favorite critical thinkers to just bounce ideas off of and it's always fun to talk to him.
	And uh also because he's a big fan of Battlestar Galactica.
	So I'm just totally exploiting my relationship with Nicky.
	Please let me on.
	Um but he's been on the podcast a couple of times.
	Um we had him on with a couple of libertarians last last time, and that was a lot of fun.
	Yeah, no.
	I mean they're libertarians.
	It was good.
	You know, I I love talking to libertarians, but you know, I don't I don't go that far.
	What about you?
	What are your thoughts on libertarians, Ian.
	Libertarian, I'm not one.
	That's that those are my thoughts.
	I mean, people like to say, oh, Ian, don't you believe in in XYZ, which is like, you know, like some whatever libertarians believe.
	I'm like, I'm not a libertarian.
	I'm not a fucking libertarian.
	That's that's that's my views on libertarians.
	I think they are straddling the fence and they don't seem to understand, you know, like this uh this culture war is not just you know some some simple internet spat, right?
	It it's it's like uh it's an existential thing.
	I mean, right now you see libertarians defending critical race theory, not because they support critical race theory, but because they think that you know, trying to stop it from being taught in uh educational um, you know, in in in in academia and schools is uh is somehow infringing upon the uh what the First Amendment rights of of the critical race theorists.
	And I'm like, what are you guys talking about?
	It's it's publicly funded.
	Like they can decide what a curriculum is.
	It's the government decides it because the government is dictated by the people, right?
	It's the will of the people.
	It it's definitely that they are so ideologically pure.
	It it's it's actually a very internally consistent uh ideology, but that leaves very little room for pragmatism.
	Exactly right.
	Yeah, right?
	Yeah.
	And that's the it it I feel like they do more damage to their conservative movement.
	I mean capital L libertarians, you know, not like people who are just like regularly libertarian.
	They do more damage to the conservative movement than even liberals because they are constantly in the center, constantly making excuses for the far left.
	And I'm not even talking about, you know, like leg regular liberals, which you know, I have no problem with really.
	I mean, if anything, conservatives have become very liberal over the past uh 10, 20 years, you know, compared to like the 90s or something.
	But you know, libertarians have, you know, every step of the way kind of allowed uh the far left to make a lot of progress just by making these arguments that oh, resisting them is somehow illiberal in some way.
	You know, and it's it's not illiberal to stop a person from you know, or stop uh a group of an ideology from gaining ground.
	I mean, especially when that ideology threatens to destroy you.
	Yeah.
	One of the things that I thought was really funny about the uh libertarian movement this last cycle was um and I like the libertarians, so uh and sometimes they kind of take it personal when you criticize libertarianism.
	Of course you do.
	Well, I like libertarians a lot.
	They're really fun to hang out with, you know, even though I'm not one.
	But they basically when they ran Joe Jorgensen, if if all of the votes for her would have gone for Trump, then Biden would not have gotten elected.
	So nobody talks about that.
	But it's like they basically it's like her.
	Here you go.
	Here you go, Joe.
	That's exactly right.
	I mean, these are people who you know, they they're always talking about voting for the third party and how they don't want to, you know, vote for the two-party system, but that doesn't work.
	I mean, the two party systems here to stay, there's just not enough of them.
	There's just enough of them to damage the uh one side or the other, right?
	Which, you know, obviously they're damaging conservatism because most of them are conservatives to a sense.
	And so it feels like certainly fiscally yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, they agree on that subject right on taxation.
	So I'm thinking, you know, if you guys were really smart, you'd be more like Rant Paul, where you wouldn't run a separate candidate or a separate party.
	What you would do is you would run as Republicans, right?
	And take it over from within.
	I mean, not necessarily take it over.
	I'm not saying they should do that, but run as Republicans and you know, reflect the Republican values as much as libertarian values, and I think that would work.
	I mean, look at what the DSA did, right?
	The DSA has run several major candidates, uh, you know, AOC being one of them, Ilhan Umar, Rashida Talib.
	All these uh people work for the uh not work for, but they are represented by the uh democratic socialists of America, and now they're Democrats, but they're still the same, you know, they're still part of the DSA, right?
	And the DSA has successfully run a number of uh you know DA candidates to you know take positions of power in in prosecutor's office like uh Joseph Budin or or that new guy that they have down in uh in in Austin, Texas, right?
	Uh the activist uh DA.
	So why can't libertarians do the same thing?
	I mean, why not run as a Republican candidate and not damage you know the standing of the Republican Party?
	Because a lot of people simply vote along party lines.
	Because they're principled.
	I mean, that like a it's the same point I was making before.
	They're just ridiculously principled.
	It's not a bad, it's not a knock, but that's just the bottom line.
	They're very, very principled, and you know, they're not gonna vote for somebody just just because you know it's the two-party system.
	They go, no, I'm not gonna vote against my conscience.
	It's very unrealistic.
	It's extremely unrealistic.
	And I think that's probably my main problem with it in chases.
	Um I don't want to say.
	Oh, yeah, I mean, look at look at the uh what New Hampshire libertarians, right?
	I mean, they've been making, I won't say making waves, really.
	I mean, making waves on Twitter is not the same as making waves politically.
	They're always going on about how, oh, we are we're winning now people are agreeing with us because we're fighting CRT in in in colleges with uh what Dr. Carlin Boroshenko or whatever right and she's always going on about how the libertarians are winning I'm like what have you guys won you've lost everything for the past many years you know you've never won a single race in your life I mean just because you're getting a bunch of retweets like oh you got 200 retweets on Twitter.
	good job.
	I'm going to clap my hand here, which I would if I had two hands right now.
	But that's what they do, right?
	They're always going on about how they're winning.
	It's like, yeah, okay, you're winning.
	I think it's even more poetic that you clap one hand.
	Exactly.
	It's silent.
	You know?
	Exactly.
	So are you going to join with your real computer or not, Ian?
	I can't.
	For some reason, it's not detecting my thing, so I'm going to keep trying.
	While I'm talking to you guys, I'm actually fiddling around with the capture card here.
	For some reason, it's not going through.
	It's actually kind of annoying.
	I understand.
	Buy a brand new house and can't even get the camera to work.
	It works sometimes.
	It works sometimes.
	So how do you and Nikki know each other?
	Because I got the sense when I first started interacting with Nikki that you guys had previously communicated.
	Oh, we talk a lot.
	We're like good friends.
	Oh, cool.
	Since when?
	You know, way back.
	I don't know how many lives ago it was exactly.
	We're going to figure it out.
	Reincarnation is real.
	Just as reasonable as all the other explanations.
	You saw my Scott Adams interview.
	I did.
	I did.
	Yeah.
	I did see a Scott Adams interview and then I reached out.
	I think I reached out.
	Was it you reached out?
	I forget.
	I think I reached out.
	Actually, speak to it now.
	One of us reached out.
	No, what happened was, well, I think you just mentioned that you were in the middle of watching it and thought it was interesting.
	And so we followed each other.
	But then when we finally talked, it was because I commented on a tweet of yours.
	Like this really kind of what I thought was a benign comment that I wrote.
	Just kind of not thinking about how it would be understood.
	It was something about like how tax dollars were being used.
	And I got so attacked.
	Yeah, you were like, you know, you were like, your followers.
	Like, like, not, you know, of all the things that I've been attacked for.
	And this, I got the most attacked.
	And so I found it funny and interesting.
	And I was like, and so I think I messaged you like, what is happening?
	I know, right?
	Yeah.
	What wasp's nest have I just gotten myself into?
	And it was cool because we ended up talking.
	But also in that tweet thread, I ended up apologizing, like not, not apologizing, but acknowledging that what I said was kind of dumb and off point.
	And people, I got a ton of followers from that.
	You did.
	I got followers who were like mad respect for like, acknowledging that.
	I might have to steal this.
	What did you tweet?
	I'll do it.
	I need some followers.
	So I forget you tweeted something about how tax dollars were being, being used.
	I forget what for.
	And I said, you know, cause I'm all caught up in, in prisons and, and, and how much money we use to lock people in cages.
	And I wrote, it's better than spending tax dollars on torturing people in cages, but like total non sequitur from what Ian's original tweet was saying.
	Yep.
	even though it might be true on its own and, and people just like launched on me.
	But it, yeah, it ended up kind of working out.
	And, and we, all right, Ian, the next snarky tweet you get from me and your replies, it's, it's, it's friendly.
	I'm just, I'm just grifting.
	I know.
	Who the hell is this guy again?
	Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
	I know him.
	That's awesome.
	Yeah.
	Like my God, people make it like a like a sport to to be snarky man's like don't even try yeah I know Michael Malison I got I got my camera working, so I'm gonna pop in very shortly.
	Okay.
	I'm also working on it on a tech.
	They should give you a job at SpaceX.
	Yeah.
	You got a tech issue over there, Nikki.
	Uh so yeah, there's just one small thing that I um haven't fixed.
	I I figure I had to get like an adapter for my camera so it didn't die.
	Um and I did I did do that, but my computer is gonna die, so I need to switch um switch it up.
	Okay.
	Yeah, yeah, but because right now you're on um MacBook Air and there's only two inputs.
	Or I'm it's always something.
	Okay, I'm gonna bump.
	You would have a MacBook Air.
	Well, but at least it's not like it's not rose gold or anything like that.
	Don't get the wrong idea.
	Yeah.
	You know, my old phone was useful because I had like no, you know, I had no options, you know.
	They were like, Oh, we're all out of these models, so I'm like, fine, just get a rose goals, you know.
	I got the phone too.
	I got 13, and I just got like my first iPhone.
	I had that before.
	Yeah, I used to have the uh the uh the red the red phone, like I don't know, 12 years ago, maybe.
	Yeah, I love it because you can always find it.
	Oh, yeah, it's right.
	That that that fucking thing.
	Jesus.
	Like why why are they even bothering?
	They're Apple, they don't need to pay Bono to make music for them, you know.
	Yeah, so I was just looking at like a Billboard Top 100 or or most successful artists of all time, because I was playing this game trying to name who I thought would be on the list, and you two was way higher than I thought should have been on that list.
	I don't know how you guys feel, and no offense if you don't like them that much, but they're pretty mediocre compared to all the kinds of talent like Michael Jackson.
	They're great as hit bands.
	You gotta buy the you buy the greatest hits record of you two and then forget about it.
	Where I'm going with this is I think that that was inflated by that stupid Apple deal.
	I think I don't think they were gonna be on the list if they were.
	If literally every iPod and and uh iPhone in the world didn't have it pre-installed, yeah, right.
	Yeah, yeah.
	IP commercials though, this with the silhouettes and like the you could see a thousand songs in your pocket, a thousand songs in your pocket.
	I think that silhouette was Nikki, wasn't it?
	Wasn't it wasn't that you, Nikki, and those uh Apple commercials with the silhouette and the iPod.
	I'm uh an NDA for that.
	Uh you should just start claiming that so the real actress gets really pissed off.
	It was me!
	Yeah, I was a silhouette.
	I bet he whoever did that got bang from you know residual.
	I don't know.
	Oh, without a doubt.
	Without a doubt.
	If they had a good you know agent, otherwise it's like, oh, it's a one-time thing.
	We're paying you a thousand dollars, you know, fresh out of college, whatever.
	That would be unfortunate.
	Yeah, well, I can say I I had a friend in college that was working on some of those Apple ads, and he was not making good money.
	So he was no contractor doing doing all those billboards around LA.
	Um, and getting the like organizing, getting the models in for the shoots and then putting the billboards up.
	Yeah, um, yeah, and I heard that they weren't making a lot of money.
	I shouldn't speak more about that because I'm pretty ignorant.
	I don't really know.
	Maybe you're from Orange County, so like 150,000 is like broke ass.
	It's like nothing.
	Yeah, you need at least like a quarter million to just you know break even, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	That wasn't good enough for me.
	It's insane.
	I had to get the hell out of there.
	I can say you live in Orange County for a while, Ian.
	No, no, no, no.
	I just I just know a lot of people from there.
	Yeah.
	Did you uh study in the United States?
	Because your English is like perfecto.
	It's perfect because uh uh I'm perfect, you know, that's why.
	Yeah, uh you were talking about language before you joined.
	I bet you uh have some interesting thoughts on that.
	Um what other languages do you speak?
	What are languages do I speak?
	Uh I well, I speak a tiny bit of Malay, I know a little bit of Mandarin, but English Is my primary language.
	Yeah.
	I'm not good at speaking other languages.
	I sound really bad.
	I have you know you know how like you ever watch like a Japanese uh movie or like an anime and they have like some white character, and he's you know, he's like he's made to be an American, right?
	But he's speaking Japanese and American accents.
	That's how I sound when I speak different languages.
	I s I have that that twang, you know, and it's just it if people people locally, you know, like if if people try to hear me speaking some different language, you'll be like, where are you from?
	I'm like, I'm from here.
	What are you talking about?
	Um and they're like, No, you're not.
	You have like this American thing going on.
	I'm like, uh Ian, I know what you need to do, man.
	You need to do a fake um like testimonial video for Rosetta Stone and see if you can get them to retweet it.
	I do not speak a word of English.
	Now I can say paleontologist.
	Maybe that's how he learned it.
	How did you learn it?
	Were you in an international school growing up?
	No, I mean they they teach it locally.
	I mean, but my you know, I would say my whole family speaks English pretty well.
	Uh, although I'm probably the only one who sounds like this, you know.
	This is something I I I developed on my own.
	Yeah.
	And you can you can probably probably thank T V and having friends on the internet.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I grew up on the internet.
	Yeah, I'm if anything, I'm like a child of the internet, right?
	It's I'm one of those those cases where you know uh I didn't like people in real life so much.
	Not because I'm like antisocial, I'm clearly not antisocial.
	I just think other people kind of suck, you know.
	Right.
	The definition of antisocial.
	Well, that's awesome.
	So what's next, guys?
	How are we saving the world?
	I got this.
	I put I'm putting together a team.
	Yeah, I've noticed.
	It's called the Avengers.
	Yeah, right.
	Yeah, which one would you be?
	Uh Iron Man, probably.
	Yeah.
	Makes sense.
	That was fast.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	No, it's because of that snark, you know.
	I just relate to that.
	The first Iron's always worked like he he kind of sucks in the later Iron Man.
	So I mean, well, it doesn't really suck.
	I mean, still playing himself, but the first Iron Man is still the best because he actually kills people, you know, like the Taliban just blows them up.
	Yeah.
	No problems about it.
	And the superhero movies.
	And pop back in.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	And the superhero movies, um, the reason I like the first ones most of the time is because I really enjoy when this seeing the superhero discover their powers, right?
	Like even the even the Toby McGuire Spider-Man movie, the first one is my favorite of all the Spider-Man movies ever made.
	Uh, because it's just cool seeing him wake up the next morning after he gets bit by the spider and all of a sudden, you know, he can he can stand up to the bully.
	Like, I just love that kind of rags to riches, you know, story.
	That's the orange story is always the most compelling part.
	It kind of it has to go downhill after there because having superpowers is so logically inconsistent that like every plot line they try and do thereafter is sort of like, well, why can't why can't Harry Potter just cast a spell and make everyone nice?
	I don't get it.
	Yeah, I don't right.
	Like, how is there still yeah, having too too many superpowers makes it difficult to tell a story?
	I mean, that's why Superman stories are probably the hardest to tell, right?
	You have to to give them some sort of weird weakness like kryptonite, or you have to make it you know it it it becomes like convoluted, like you know, Batman versus Superman, that movie, uh Zach Snyder movie, it's like why doesn't Superman just save both people at once?
	I mean he's faster than speed of light, right?
	Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
	That's why the origin stories are fun, but they're still fallible for the first half of it, and everyone loves the store.
	Yeah, it's also why Batman works compared to other superhero movies or stories, because he's basically just a person, right?
	You can't like I mean, if you if you write him properly and you do it in the constraints of the universe, so you know he he won't be able to invent a machine that cures cancer, right?
	Even though it's Batman.
	But if you you know, if you you give him uh in s in some stories, they give him too many powers, so he becomes like the guy who can invent everything, and that just becomes stupid.
	It's like why doesn't he invent a machine that's you know ends crime, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	You know quite a lot about this stuff.
	Are you a big uh uh superhero movies fan?
	No, I hate superhero movies.
	I uh the reason I watch them is because I want to get irritated.
	I just annoy myself watching them.
	I'm like, why is this so dumb?
	Why doesn't he do that?
	Why doesn't he believe it?
	Ian, you're you're the the you're the person that I know who knows the most about things I hate.
	Yeah, I think that's right, yeah.
	I think that's about right.
	I mean, when's Dickie's birthday?
	Look it up on I'm BB.
	That's true, huh?
	Being on IMDb, no one has any excuse to miss your birthday.
	It's not like it's not like my friends, there's no way to find out.
	I don't put it anywhere.
	But the whole world must know yours if they want to.
	No excuse.
	You can go to Whitepages.com and get anyone's birthday in the United States.
	I do it all the time.
	Oh, you're admitting to doxing.
	Who the hell is Chase Geyser?
	And why did he send me a birthday card?
	Why is it why is it made with grand?
	Yeah.
	I actually Facebook ruined birthdays.
	Like they made it so that you never have to remember, but now I don't know about you.
	I never use Facebook.
	So I like two years ago, I forgot my mom, my mom's birthday.
	Because I think I just like kind of like with phone numbers, you don't have to remember them anymore.
	So oops.
	Yeah, oops.
	Yeah.
	I hate Facebook.
	I and I loved it.
	I loved Facebook so much 10 years ago.
	It was awesome.
	2011, 2012.
	And they just they systematically made every wrong decision at every pivotal step.
	And now the whole platform sucks.
	It does suck.
	What what happened?
	Like I I just I know I don't like it.
	I don't I haven't really sat sat down to think about why.
	Like what did you used to like it?
	I used to use it.
	Um I mean, I guess so I I went like dark for a few years on social media altogether, but when I came back.
	Um told me.
	Uh so and but when I came back, I yeah, I started using Twitter, and then uh later a little bit Instagram, which I don't really I'm not a huge fan of either.
	It was so it was more just like in intuitive that I you know I took to Twitter, so that's why I I don't know, but I just know that I don't like Facebook.
	It's a bad place.
	Okay, let's get specifics here.
	What what what do you not like about it, Chase?
	Well, um I can kind of tell you with some reason why I don't I I think Facebook has gone downhill, and part of the reason I know about this is just because I'm in advertising, it's that's what I do for a living.
	And when Facebook went public, they um basically drastically reduced the organic reach of all posts from pages and and uh uh business pages, uh any public page that you like, not profiles but pages, so that if you want to reach your audience, you have to boost your content.
	And nobody really did that because everybody's on a budget and it was fun because it was free.
	And um as a result, uh the algorithms really took over in terms of showing you um content in your news feed, whereas before it was based on what you actually followed.
	Yeah, and it switched and they figured out they figured out that like you know, police brutality and politics got a high click-through rate, and the algorithm, I think the machine learning just sort of started churning out very politically provocative content.
	And now whenever you work with it.
	It was an experiment.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But they let it go too far.
	You did, yeah.
	And then everybody was just full of hate, they were hating their neighbors, like I hate conservatives, or I hate Democrats, and it just they you know, and that's why you scaled it back.
	I mean, he was like, Okay, that's not working, and then he had like a zen moment.
	Remember that?
	When he went for like some yoga thing, you know, and he was like, Okay, yeah, this is like yeah, it's like this is super bad.
	We can't be doing this, you know.
	It's actually you know, making the world a worse place, and and and we don't want to do this.
	And then he put out like a this huge statement.
	I think it was like in a new year or something, right?
	Remember that?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It's like okay, nothing changed.
	No, nothing really changed, yeah.
	I mean, he wanted it to change, but the thing that's crazy too is like the thing that is so menacing about Facebook to me is that it makes you hate people that you used to love.
	Because you know everybody on Facebook.
	So, like, like I had like like I have like in like, for example, my favorite English teacher in junior high.
	I have loved that guy.
	And I still love the guy, so if he's listening, Jesus Christ, don't take this the wrong way.
	But every time I see him post about politics, which is every time he posts, it makes me like him less.
	And this guy was an outstanding teacher.
	He taught me how to read some of the most influential books.
	We had great, like he, you know, called on people and he was great at responding to their thoughts and ideas.
	I mean, he was sort of like uh a dead poet society type teacher.
	But like imagine if Robin Williams in that movie was like, you know, uh a little bit of a Marxist.
	So then like when all the kids went back to the rooms Logged on to Facebook, you know, they saw him posting all this like bullshit, you know.
	It would just totally kill your buzz, you know, with the guy.
	And that's kind of what I think is menacing about Facebook is that you know, people that you otherwise love or would like to be around, you know, you the their politics could suddenly get in the way.
	It's like politics coming up at a dinner dinner table.
	Or or personal things coming up that aren't necessarily uh within the context of your relationship with someone, right?
	Like it, you know, people post so many different types of things, and you might just I don't know.
	Like I used to meet people and they'd be like, Are you on Facebook?
	Like that was a instead of asking for a number, like that was something that you did, but request.
	What's that?
	Hey girl, hey girl, so you're fun requests.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	So funny.
	I like that movie, the social network, though.
	I really enjoyed it.
	I don't know how accurate it was, but um, I thought it was inspiring, you know, the sort of like start with nothing, even though starting with nothing means being a student at Harvard in that movie and building something amazing and you know, kind of bootstrapping it.
	It was sort of like a beautiful mind, you know, with the chalk on the window thing.
	I just like that whole idea of it, and then it just totally went to shit.
	I think it's part of it was Oregon is pretty badass in terms of uh storytelling.
	I I kind of have a an ethical problem though with making movies like that about real life without the people being involved.
	Like I I don't know if there's a movie that just came out about Ross Ulbricht, and um I I'm not I don't plan on watching it, but again, like if the person that it's about isn't involved, like I remember watching the social network and thinking that actor was Mark Zuckerberg,
	like not I knew he wasn't, but like viscerally in my feeling about Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg, I'd see that actor, and like it is fiction, but we're you know, we're flawed perceptual perception meaning making machines, and so I think it's it's not the most responsible thing.
	Um it's like Queen, right?
	They made that Queen movie that was completely you know unsanctioned.
	Was that he couldn't even get his music, right?
	They uh we're talking about the Freddie Mercury one.
	The Freddie Mercury one, yeah, the Freddie Mercury one, and and the trailer was just garbage because they couldn't use his music, and the whole thing was just like some droning ambient, you know, classical-ish music playing over the whole thing was just garbage completely.
	But just with a trailer, I mean they couldn't get the music for the trailer, but they got it for the movie, the whole freaking movie.
	Um but but was the rest of the movie particularly factually inaccurate?
	It was the timeline is off.
	It was it was off.
	Yeah, it was completely off.
	A lot of the fans are actually pointing it out and and documentarians, people who you know studied his life, they were like, Oh no, this is completely wrong.
	This never happened, this is fiction.
	This is made up, this is you know, completely sensationalized.
	And so it just wasn't good.
	I mean, who is this movie for?
	Because, you know, I mean, you you take Freddie Mercury, he's someone that everybody likes, right?
	Or loves, even and you make a terrible movie that puts him in a bad light, and it's like, who is this for?
	You know, I mean, fans are not gonna watch it, the fans don't want to watch it.
	The family hates it.
	It's like you're not like obviously no one's gonna support it.
	People who watched it pirated it, they didn't want to watch it.
	So it didn't.
	I liked it, but I didn't know enough about him to be critical of the inaccuracies.
	I just thought it was a fun movie.
	Yeah, I mean it's easier to try.
	It's entertaining, yeah.
	I didn't feel like I could get over the teeth.
	That was really distracting to just in the that guy could eat an apple through a picket fence.
	Pickles right out of the jar.
	Yeah.
	Mickey, I said I agree with you about, you know, it's it's okay to do a dramatization.
	Obviously, you want to make stories compelling like the the American sniper one.
	I'm assuming that was they they really check with that guy and they got it really close.
	The family was dead, right?
	And all that stuff.
	Oh okay.
	Well, yeah, oh yeah, that's a good point.
	But they check with the family.
	Um you don't screw that one up.
	If the people are living and you don't consult with them at all, I think we we kind of have to assume some of the intention is propagandistic.
	You're trying to you're trying to rewrite a narrative, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	The Megan Kelly one.
	I haven't seen it yet, but she kind of railed on it.
	Like, this was just not my sentiment at all.
	Bombshell?
	Bombshell, yeah.
	Bombshell, yeah.
	It looks like garbage.
	I mean, it looks like hot garbage.
	It just you know uses these women and what they experience with their, you know, uh what they told, and then sensationalize it, makes it this drama about Fox News.
	I mean, this is clearly an anti-Fox News thing.
	It's not even necessarily about the guy who ran at Roger Ales, right?
	It's it's more about, well, let's attack the network, you know.
	But she was kind of upset about she Meg and Kelly's kind of a hearty girl woman.
	Yeah, she's a hardy woman.
	And it's not doesn't easily get upset.
	Yeah, not trying to downplay anything that happened to her, but her she, from what I understand, she just kind of shrugged it off.
	Or at least, you know, got over it.
	But they depicted it as being this like traumatic thing.
	Again, I haven't seen the movie.
	Yeah.
	But her quibble with with it was like, what was the point of that?
	Who who did that help?
	All you did was set an example for people that I need to be traumatized, or that you know, that's that's what always happens.
	Versus it could have been a very positive message, which is she's tough as nails and didn't let it get her down and went on to be kind of a badass, right?
	Yeah, she's tough as nails, right?
	And they they cast her as a victim.
	They cast her's a victim who's gonna hide it.
	And it's like they're they're basically Hollywood is you know creating this narrative that women are only victims.
	Even the strong women can only ever be victims.
	I mean, they did the same thing with Ann Coulter when they were making that Law and Order episode, that SVU episode where they cast her as like a rape victim.
	You know, she's speaking at some conference and then some Proud Boy rapes her.
	It's like obviously a proud boy.
	There's a proud boy, yeah, it's a proud boy raping.
	How is that not propaganda?
	It's so propagandistic, right?
	By the way, Kyle's a Republican.
	He's pretending to be Antifa.
	It's like, you know, this is it typical Hollywood shit, right?
	It's like this never happens in in real life.
	I mean, you look at Antifa and it's like, oh yeah, it's uh it's a whole pack of degenerates.
	I mean, there's nothing redeemable about them, but somehow you're going to go after like the proud boy because you know the media calls him racist or big things.
	I just met him at black wives, you know, like yeah, he are not racist.
	I just met my first group of Proud Boys.
	Yeah, I was at a political event uh in South Florida, and we were walking out, and all these guys had these pseudo-biker vest things on, and they had patches on the back, and it said Proud Boys.
	So I walked up to them, I said, Are you guys Proud Boys?
	That's pretty cool.
	You're kind of always in the news.
	Uh, I'm not really sure how I should feel.
	Are you violent people?
	But they were really nice.
	The flyer, yes.
	He goes, Hey, bro, before you leave here, I want to give you a flyer.
	So I took the flyer, and it's like a promotional flyer for the Proud Boys.
	It gives you a bunch of information about them and you know, everything you'd want to know.
	And at the very top of the thing, it just says, we are not white supremacists.
	Very top.
	Nice.
	That's the most important thing they want to convey to you.
	I mean, you look at the makeup of their, you know, the demographics.
	I mean, you've got a lot of Hispanic people, there's like a handful of Asians in there.
	It's like, how these guys white supremacists, they are Western chauvinists, right?
	That's what they call themselves.
	And I think the point is, yeah, they're proud of being, you know, Western.
	If any of them are watching this, I'm not trying to denigrate you at all, but my sense of the thing is that it's a bunch of boneheads.
	A bunch of young men, maybe a little bit too much.
	It's too big to make that sort of a radical blanket, I think, claim about him.
	I think there's all sorts, I mean, McKenzie is not a bonehead.
	That dude is very smart, the founder.
	Uh, I know, but the story, but the story behind it was it was a joke, and he wanted to punch people in a bar, you know, and and they like getting in fights, and they're young men that want to get in fights.
	And yeah, maybe that's what we need.
	I mean, look at this uh society that we live in, it's weak.
	It's okay, the society that you live in.
	I don't live in America.
	It's all this soy boy shit, you know.
	I mean, like, no, I'm not saying people need to go out and fight or something, but I think that having a bit of aggression like that 1980s style machoism is fine, you know, but somehow it's been dumbed down.
	It's like, oh, that's toxic masculinity, even being masculine at all, is a bad thing.
	I mean, you have men apologizing for things they never did.
	I mean, people accuse me of shit all the time.
	I'm like, and why aren't you apologizing?
	Yeah, and I'm like, why should I?
	I didn't do it, you know, or I don't feel bad about it.
	So fuck you, you know.
	I mean, that's my response.
	The Western chauvinist moniker is very obviously a troll in response to everybody's sort of catastrophizing toxic masculinity.
	By the way, the guys that I met weren't particularly masculine, they were about as masculine as the three of us.
	It wasn't like they were like super jacked.
	Ooh, that's too bad.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, we need more people who are jacked and also did they live in a villain mansion?
	Yeah, yeah, no, not if they do.
	Yeah.
	No, I don't know whether whether the founder, I mean, he's rich as hell, right?
	Uh, I don't know whether he lives in a villain mansion.
	He probably does, you know, probably does.
	Gavin?
	Gavin, yeah.
	I like it.
	I like that.
	They took him off the spot off Spotify when uh, or not, I don't know if they took him off Spotify, but I don't think they transferred the Joe Rogan episodes where he was the guest.
	Oh, yeah, they deleted that.
	Yeah, they were they were like, oh, it's a technical error, we just removed it and you know I I think Alex Jones was talking to Rebel News about this, you know, because they interviewed him about Joe Rogan, strangely enough.
	And they're like, so what's the deal with all the Joe Rogan Spotify episodes?
	And my understanding, I think what Alex Jones explained was that there are all these activist types working for Spotify who took real personal issue with those particular episodes.
	And so they removed them and then they told Rogan's team, obviously didn't believe them.
	They said that, oh, it's a technical glitch that, you know, these episodes are somehow missing.
	It's taking eight months to fix.
	Yeah, taking eight months to fix.
	And, you know, they tried banning him once.
	And none of this, you know, all this goes over the heads of the people actually making the calls.
	Right.
	I mean, the executives have signed the contracts, the technical department.
	None of these people are involved.
	I mean, they like Joe Rogan just fine.
	It's the it's the activists who are in charge of moderation.
	They are the ones who have the issue with Joe Rogan and the and these particular episodes because they want to dominate, you know, the sphere.
	Right.
	They want to dominate conversation.
	They can't allow wrong thinkers like Alex Jones or Gavin McInnes to have a voice.
	yeah it's crazy how you know I experienced this a little bit um in other in other organizations that I've been a part of where you have sort of the principles of the organization and then you have uh the people who actually compose it right and when there is an overwhelming amount of consensus within any group then the rules at a certain point become irrelevant.
	So, for example, if in the United States there was like 90% consensus that the Second Amendment was a bad idea, you'd start seeing unconstitutional stuff pass like in legislation and it would happen.
	And so it's just, well, I think what we see with big tech and with the media is that we've got these hyper urban based businesses with very homogenous demographics within them who have very similar political views, lifestyles.
	And we're seeing that play out in a way that is kind of just shining on the bias.
	Yeah.
	Speaking outside of the norm, right outside of the accepted, like the Overton window, what they're saying is unacceptable.
	But, you know, in a way there, I think they are moving the Overton window, which is a good thing.
	I mean, we should not be afraid to do so.
	We're speaking, you know, I hate to use the term speaking truth to power, but that's exactly what people like us are doing, which is ironic given that, you know, the left is always claiming that they're speaking truth to power.
	to power that they are saying something that is politically unacceptable they're the the heroes the martyrs are saying all the brave things and you know and and we are just you know Mark Hamill tweeting that you're part of the resistance every day.
	Yeah, it's like, my guy, you're like a famous actor.
	What are you talking about?
	Are you part of the resistance when literally, you know, what, 30% of America agrees with you?
	Like, come on.
	You and Nike, you guys are the resistance.
	It's like, Luke, your dad was six months away from figuring out how to solve death.
	We're doing this again, man.
	You ruined everything.
	He was making mad progress.
	Wow.
	So do you think that Disney ruined Star Wars?
	Wars yes Castle Kennedy ruins Star Wars Nikki I I don't have an opinion I'm not I'm not very invested in Star Wars you don't like sci fi no I'm I'm very uh biased about the sci-fi that I like yeah what do you what's your favorite sci-fi besides Battlestar?
	Yeah.
	I mean, between Star Wars and Star Trek, I like Star Trek better.
	That's smart.
	For sure.
	The writing's better.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I don't watch much sci-fi.
	I like sci-fi books.
	What's your favorite book?
	Ursula K. Le Guin and Heinlein and people like Isaac Asimov.
	Ursula Le Guin.
	Ursula Le Guin.
	Yeah.
	It's a good book.
	yeah I read the canicles of uh I read the canicles of Leibowitz this year have you guys ever read that book no I think I told you to read it no you didn't I googled the greatest sci-fi novels of all time and that was like on every list.
	No I don't know maybe I didn't it's it was like a big book I I was in this I was in a music theory class and it was like placed in a too low of a class I would sit in the back of the room and read Game of Thrones every day And the teacher uh would scold me about it, but then she kind of got the gist that I was just I was misplaced.
	I shouldn't have been in that class.
	And so she came in with canticle of Lewitz and said, here, just read a better book because you're reading trash.
	And uh so that's when I read it.
	And it's a is it it's it's good, but it's a little dated in that um it's very easy for a 21st century reader to know what the end is gonna be.
	Whereas when it came out, I think it was kind of groundbreaking.
	It was like a huge twist, you know.
	Yeah, right.
	So yeah, some of that stuff by stuff.
	But I'm excited for the Dune movie to come out.
	I was so pissed off that um HBO postponed it a year.
	That's kind of the case with a lot of books.
	Like, that's an HBO just awesome.
	Yeah.
	Are they doing a post?
	Yeah, they make a lot of great fiction.
	That's for sure.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	They're well known for their fiction.
	Yeah.
	That's for sure.
	I mean, the documentaries, especially got a joke about it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But that is the case with a lot of books that you read in high school, but they were written 20 years ago, and they've become so much part of these like guys that like when I read George Orwell, it wasn't particularly profound.
	I was like, duh.
	But that's because every everything that he wrote had sort of seeped into the culture, and then by the time I read it, it's it sounded like old hat.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	You said this alone.
	That's all I got.
	Like, I mean, I think that the 2000s were colored with uh uh catcher and a rye, you know, when everybody was being all hipster and cool and ephetic and not giving a shit about anything.
	Yeah, remember that, right?
	Everyone's a phony, man.
	Everybody's phony.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Everyone was doing that.
	That was like a thing, right?
	And and it even became like the subject of of an anime, right?
	Ghost in the shell standalone complex and a bit nerdy reference there.
	But you know, that whole show, at least the first season, was all about catcher and a rye, right?
	I mean, you had uh uh an epithetic society that was just giving into the surveillance state and allowing themselves to be manipulated by the media.
	I mean, that's the whole idea of a standalone complex, is that everyone's manipulated by the media into acting and behaving in a certain way.
	I mean, like if anything, I would say January 6th is an example of a standalone complex because it's like a whole bunch of different people uh believing that they can come together and do something, can enact some sort of change, right?
	So it was very fascinating to actually see that happen in the real world where it's like wow, it's just as you know, just people described it.
	I mean, the anime I think everyone from January 6th should have gotten on TV the day after and said we were just inspired by Black Lives Matter and we owe everything we do I mean they definitely were they definitely were, right?
	I mean, the the the media We saw them doing it, we were yeah, the media basically said, Oh, there's gonna be zero consequences to your actions, right?
	The police are not gonna arrest you, you know, as long as you don't like take a gun and shoot somebody, no one's gonna arrest you, you're gonna be fine.
	Well, that was a lie, you know, because the media is basically one-sided.
	Yeah, if you're on the left, you can absolutely loot sorry, liberate uh uh a reparations from a Nike store, right?
	But you can't, you know, uh protest your government.
	How dare you?
	They should be.
	Yeah, and they're all in solitary.
	Have they pressed charges yet?
	Yeah, they have, yeah.
	There's a few, there's a they're all in solitary because they're worried that they're gonna be uh like abused by the other inmates, or are they worried about um are they just doing this like just extract?
	Because they're so-called white supremacists, so they don't care, right?
	They're not even charging some some of them, they're just sitting in solitary doing nothing.
	And that's why you know you you have Vladimir Putin raising concerns about them, and it's kind of a shame that he I mean, obviously he's playing games here, he's playing political games, let's not make any mistakes here.
	But it's sad that you know it takes someone like him or Xi Jinping to come out and say, Oh yeah, look at what you're doing to your people.
	You know, I mean, like, thanks, Biden.
	Why did you do this?
	You gave them ammunition, you know?
	You gave them a lot of ammunition to do this.
	I have this image of them down in solitary confinement, and uh Nancy Pelosi goes down the steps every day and gives them each a magic quill and they must write, I must not tell lies over and over, and then cuts it into the back of their hands.
	Like Harry Potter.
	Yeah, it's a good Eric Potter.
	Yeah.
	That's what it is.
	Oh, clever.
	Read it on what if we what if we uh yeah, what if we got um what if we got a bunch of what if we got a bunch of patriots together and we all put on uh George Floyd t-shirts and uh just broke him out of prison?
	It's like this is like this is right now, and they say if he's if you're listening, he's not serious, it's a joke.
	No, no, of course I shouldn't.
	I have a bleeding disorder, I'm not bringing anybody out of prison.
	Yeah, exactly.
	But they'll they'll take your fat posting jokes as a as a means to you know to shut you down.
	You know, that's what they do, right?
	That's that's all about like Facebook saying that, oh, if you know any extremists, report them here.
	It's like thanks for becoming a stasi Facebook.
	Well, what are you guys doing?
	Yeah.
	I never got that notification, and I just came to the conclusion that it's because I'm the extremist.
	Same.
	Yeah, I never actually got the notification.
	People are like who follow me got that notification.
	I'm like, wait a second, why are you guys getting it?
	We're all following the same pages here.
	Yeah.
	I just I you know, I and people try to pin the whole January 6th thing, which you know, I think it was embarrassing.
	I think it was complicated.
	It was complicated.
	It's you know, it wasn't just Trump supporters.
	There was there were definitely some and some in a small way Antifa members involved or just agitators involved, and obviously with the rebel news uh reporting that you know that we know that the FBI at least had agents that were involved.
	I don't know if they were instigators themselves, but they were certainly um within the informants for sure.
	Yeah, and and but but people try to blame it on um President Trump's uh like speech or his just rhetoric.
	And I think that they they missed the point, and I've said this before that the reason people didn't believe the results of the election is because the media lied so much about Trump the whole entire four years that you know when the election results came in, nobody was gonna believe him.
	Yeah, and and and and look at it now.
	I mean, you have Eric Adams running for mayor in New York City, and you know, they're doing uh an audit of his uh uh of the election there because they feel like uh 135,000 ballots were injected into the election to vote against him.
	I mean, like, okay, I mean, if they themselves are admitting that this is a thing that can happen, that would mean that at least you know, at least some of Trump's claims, you know, or at least his concerns.
	No, you're legitimate.
	Yeah, Ian, you couldn't ask for a better uh example for this thing because what they admitted was that it literally was human error.
	There was no flaw in the machine, there was no uh malicious intent, it was human error.
	And that completely proves our point, which is this shit is so vulnerable that a dummy at his keyboard trying to edit the database could topple the whole thing.
	So if if the if the system is vulnerable to human error, both sides are gonna do this every single election.
	That's the problem.
	That's the fact that it's a good thing.
	That's why we have election integrity laws.
	That's why Arizona just passed their new election integrity law.
	And guess what?
	The Democrats opposed it, right?
	They had to go to the Supreme Court because the Democrats try to shut it down.
	And the Supreme Court was like, no, just doesn't actually violate the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
	I mean, it's fine, it doesn't actually disenfranchise anyone.
	If anything, it strengthens uh voting uh rights, right?
	And and it makes sure that your votes are secure and legitimate.
	And so why is it that the Democrats are so opposed to this?
	You would think that, you know, after Trump won in 2016.
	I mean, they were at the time, they were the ones asking for it, and now that they won in uh 2020, they are claiming that it's uh you know it's it's undemocratic to even question the election.
	It's like, no, it's not.
	It's one thing literally every country on earth does it.
	You guys did it for four years.
	Yeah.
	One thing that really um I was disappointed in Trump in though was on election night at like 3 a.m., you know, his speech comes out and he's like, This is total bullshit, basically.
	It's like, all right, it might be, but there's no way you know that yet.
	Right.
	You know, and so like I was just kind of like, come on, like he's just you know, like he could have come out and he could have been like, listen, um, you know, we're there there's some very interesting things that happen with the vote count that we have questions about.
	Um, we're not doubting any of the authenticity of the election integrity or any of the poll workers or anything like that, but we're definitely gonna take measures to double check to make sure that's the right thing.
	Yeah, doing the votes were accurate.
	could have said something like that.
	In a way that's like reasonable, right?
	So that when anybody goes against them, they look like the crazy people.
	It's all about the optics game, right?
	It's like you're he could basically be saying the exact same thing, asking for the exact same things without going crazy, without going off the rails, and people be like, Oh, yeah, that seems like a reasonable request.
	I mean, he's not acting crazy, he's just like voicing concern.
	But also that that people expect him to be crazy.
	Like that that's also why people love him and they get riled up and they feel impassioned, and and I think a lot of people support him because he said shit like that.
	So you know, and I think a lot of yeah, and some of the praise Trump gets about being a uh like a hard hitter is actually just another way of saying that he gets out in front and fights a propaganda war before fighting an actual facts and logical war.
	He's definitely proactive.
	He's he's not just proactive all the way.
	But that's a euphemism for fighting a propaganda.
	So what he saw that night going down was I'm gonna get out ahead of this and establish such a strong narrative that no, there's no way that they won't do an audit for me because I've got the narrative set and start and I got so many people believe in this.
	And so he goes out and fights this propaganda.
	His first instinct is I gotta get public uh sentiment on my side before we try and do any of the rational stuff, like talk about what actually went wrong, right?
	Now that's sort of his MO.
	And that is probably my one of my least favorite characteristics about Donald Trump is that that instinct to go straight for the the um winning over the public sentiment before trying to make a rational argument.
	That's what the Democrats do, though.
	And I think you knew that's how you love it in the game.
	I think we don't see eye to eye on that, and we'll have to flesh it out sometime.
	But you want to do like that.
	Well, is it that you love it?
	Is it that you love it, Chase, or is it that you see that it's effective?
	It's effective.
	It's effective.
	I I love it sometimes, like uh on a on uh an emotional level, I love it, even though I don't agree with it.
	Right, you know, in terms of my values and rationally, so like emotionally, I thought it was very appealing the way that Trump behaved.
	But you know, when I step back from what you know, like and when I was when I was watching the insurrection stuff on, I don't like to call it an insurrection, but when I was watching the January 6th right when I was watching the January 6th stuff, despite the fact that I think it's embarrassing and it was wrong what happened and what they did, there was an emotion a part of me emotionally that was like fuck yeah, Pelosi's in lockdown for the first time during this whole thing, you know, like there's a part of me that was riled up and excited about it.
	So, you know, it's not you can you can have sort of you can sort of land on both sides, but you you have to make you know decisions based on your mind, not your heart.
	Yeah, and being able to have the self-awareness to acknowledge that that you have certain feelings or or something's compelling based on a visceral reaction, but also be able to make decisions and recognize that doesn't mean it's good, you know.
	But I think that's the issue with most of the country is people are just not self-aware and they're driven by their emotions, and then the second thing they're doing is trying to justify it with their intellect, you know, as opposed to having it them be separate mechanisms and unrelated and using your intellect to be aware of your emotions, people are driven by their emotions and then making decisions and actions and then justifying it using the mind.
	So, Nikki, do you think that in the last year since we've been locked down and we haven't had sports to kind of let out some of that tribalist impulse and get all emotional about something else that it's sort of been channeled into politics at a greater level?
	Maybe that's not I mean, yeah, that that's that's an interesting theory.
	Not being someone who's not super into sports, it's it's not like I I can't necessarily relate to that, but that makes sense to me.
	I'm seeing a lot of people get their emotional yaas out on tribalism expressed through politics when maybe some of that was displaced in the past.
	Maybe people went to movies and got their yaos out.
	Yeah, when they canceled golf, I resorted to crime.
	Right.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I like get your yayas out.
	I think I don't know where that came from.
	But um yeah, I mean people having to be creative to get to get their yayas out.
	I'm gonna face after this, they'll go, Oh my god, I said ya's in front of me.
	I can't fucking believe it, bro.
	Of all the things, yeah.
	Um we definitely um uh Nikki, I know I know that you've had some firsthand experience with that with all this bullshit with um Nexi M and HBO.
	Like I saw it a little bit after our last interview with um like the comments and stuff that that um come out where people are clearly reacting emotionally and like she's in a cult, you know, she or she's so brainwashed I can't believe it.
	It's like it's it's it's because the uh the if the emotional um uh manipulation of me of the media and documentaries is so strong that if if if people in and it just doesn't really I don't think it has much to do with intelligence as much as it has to do with intention because I get caught up in it too for just various things.
	I can tell that I'm like being influenced just by what I consume on a subconscious level, and it it you have to consciously decide um in like a hyper-aware state that you're going to rationally think through something before, right?
	So, like during the pandemic, uh for example, you know, I would get so frustrated um uh like the panic among friends and family.
	And I was like, I'm like looking at the numbers.
	I'm like, this doesn't really add up.
	Is like it's not like the Spanish flu.
	It's not, you know, but everyone's freaking out, and all the toilet papers gone.
	It's like there's this emotional response.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's kind of, you know, there's something adventurous feeling about it.
	Like it's like the wasteland, you know, it's like Matt Max.
	It's it's post-fall movies and zombie movies.
	I mean, we've been raised on the diet of zombie movies for like the past uh 15 years or so, right?
	So it's like finally that my time has come.
	I can you turn up put on my gas mask.
	And I mean, everybody went out and bought a gas mask across the CRN.
	I rented Contagion right away.
	I was getting into it.
	That's not me too.
	Yeah, I love that movie.
	Yeah, I watched it, you know, on the lockdown.
	Like, you gotta watch Contagion.
	Yeah.
	I was like, oh shit, it's a good one.
	I've never seen Contagion.
	It's a good movie.
	Definitely watch it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It was a lot of fun in the beginning of the pandemic.
	I couldn't get anyone to watch it.
	I kept telling people, but they were they were scared to the point that they were like, no, why would I ever watch something about you know they were like scaring themselves?
	I mean, they would watch the news, which is off course far worse than watching contagion.
	At least contagion gives you some hope.
	You know, it's like there's a funnel.
	Contagion really spotted early on that what would happen would we we'd have a lot of misinformation and people grifting off the mince misinformation?
	That was going on.
	Took a fair amount of foresight.
	I thought that was insightful of them to predict that that's how it would play out.
	Um character, yeah.
	Government government overreach was another topic in it.
	You know, it was it really got got to the heart of it, and it was also very interesting to watch all of these words from contagion instantly make their way into the into the public lexicon.
	Everyone just immediately started saying everyone knows like R not, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And that was contagion.
	Yeah, they even explained it on the blackboard in the movie.
	It was science, are not.
	What are you talking about?
	R not was not productive rate for the virus.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So an R not of one would be like the flu, right?
	So one person will definitely split it to another one human being, right?
	So eventually one one one one one.
	But if it's above one, then you know it's gonna reproduce faster, like the delta variant is way faster.
	It's got a higher R naught than the regular one.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So early on in the pandemic, one of the big stories was just what's the R naught of this virus?
	We gotta know because it's gonna either gonna grow exponentially, maybe it's gonna grow linear linearly and we'll stand a chance of flattening the curve.
	And everyone was talking about R not.
	And I was like, I already know what this is.
	I watched Contagion.
	Little did you know the scientists from the Wuhan lab actually were producers, investors on contagion.
	It started that long ago, so that they can could could control the narrative.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Contagion was a was a Chinese uh psyop.
	Right, is that the right word?
	Psyop members members of the board, we've hit a little bit of a lull in streams.
	What can we do?
	I heard you got that.
	I heard you got a lab.
	Why don't you just leave the door open?
	Oh, none of us can watch his 12th monkeys.
	That's a good one.
	I didn't see that one.
	No, no, you should see it.
	Yeah, it's it's uh it's the same thing, it's about a virus that just goes out of control and then kills a bunch of people, and then Bruce Willis gets sent back in time to stop it from happening, and he encounters uh very insane.
	Uh is it Brad Pitt?
	I think it's Brad Pitt, right?
	Isn't a movie?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I don't know.
	He's definitely in World War Z, which is a zombie but similar.
	Yeah, if the next pandemic turns everybody into a zombie, we'll know that the CPC CCP is just recycling Hollywood movies.
	Yeah, oh I just looked up steal everything else.
	I just looked at Fauci contagion movie, right?
	I just looked it up, and it's got an interview with Anthony Fauci from 2011 where he said, and I quote, it's one of the most accurate movies I have seen on infectious disease outbreaks of any type.
	Let's be careful here.
	There you go.
	Yeah, we won't go crazy territory, we're not saying anything about Fauci.
	You know, he's he's a good man, okay.
	But but it's very curious about hell of a guy.
	Hell of a guy, hell of a guy, hell of a guy.
	And he actually reviewed Contagion.
	That was that's pretty cool.
	Yeah, that's actually pretty cool.
	Yeah.
	I like 20 28 Days Later is my favorite in that ballpark.
	I think that it was just awesome.
	Yeah, but it's all these people being stupid, right?
	Like that movie irritated the shit out of me because it's like, guys, just stay in the fucking zone.
	We're like, why are you going outside?
	You know, like what are you guys doing?
	Who are you angry at?
	The fictional characters or the writers of the movie?
	The writers, the writers.
	It's like it's like I got like and 20 weeks later was actually a lot worse than 28 days later, right?
	Because 28 days is like kind of understandable, it just happens, right?
	But 28 weeks later, it's like, oh yeah, we got the shit under control.
	You got camp set up, you know, we basically terminated the virus.
	It's it's almost done, you know.
	And then some fucking kids go to a city to play like what are you doing?
	Totally unrealistic.
	Did you see Zombie Land?
	Bill Murray is not gonna make it.
	Totally unrealistic.
	Yeah, unrealistic as well.
	But at least that's like a you know, tongue in cheek movie, tongue in cheek movie.
	Yeah, it's true.
	It's always like the character, you know, or the characters are doing something really, really stupid, like all of the you know, off the dead movies, right?
	It's like always some guy doing something really dumb and getting everybody else killed.
	Like, yeah, why?
	Like the latest movie, the one that's on Netflix right now, the the Zack Snyder one, which is I mean, it's good, it's entertaining, right?
	It's fun, but it's like the daughter character, it's like, what the fuck is your problem?
	Why do you have to go rescue these immigrant women?
	Like, what is your issue?
	Stay inside.
	And I blame her for all their deaths.
	Basically, everybody dies because she can't stay.
	That's true.
	Like, I don't know.
	Wasn't there a mandated wasn't there a mandated lockdown?
	Are you sure are you sure there was sure you weren't George Costanza in a previous life, Ian?
	Oh yeah, we live in a society, okay?
	Serenity now.
	It's just it's just a writer's it's like they know how to piss people off.
	And I think that's what keeps people going because it creates drama, right?
	But I mean, if you're really smart, if you're like a really good writer, you're not gonna create tension that way.
	You're gonna do it in a way that's organic in a way that doesn't require characters doing something really, really stupid.
	Just so on the nose, and yeah, like okay, you guys are lazy, you know, like you're lazy, you don't know how to get the characters in tough situations, so you just have one of them just fuck up.
	It's like, what are you doing?
	Why I wish somebody talented would make a zombie movie that was from a single zombie's perspective the whole time.
	So this zombie the whole time is just kind of like walking around and going in a different room, city or whatever.
	No, no, you can write it.
	You can write a like looking for a date, like sing a single zombie going on.
	Speed dating is uh on zombie Tinder.
	But like, wouldn't it be cool if like it just sort of followed the like the zombie around and like throughout the movie the zombie like would find a group of people and just say I you could still make it thrilling if you were a good writer?
	I could just Black Summer, which is pretty good, it's on Netflix is uh two seasons now.
	I think the new season just came out.
	I don't know if you've seen it, but the characters are nameless and they don't really have any dialogue, but it's it's like a group of random survivors surviving in a zombie apocalypse, and they don't really do anything stupid, it's more like the situation is so rough and so difficult for them that you know they have to kind of do everything they can to survive, and it's actually kind of compelling because they don't give these characters any sort of real, you know, like like they don't caricaturize them, right?
	They just make them real people, like oh, this guy's a bus driver, this guy's a teacher, this guy is uh is a gym teacher, this this one's a student, a female student.
	It's like you know, it's just like very just regular people surviving, and it's actually really really good compared to you know, uh shit like Z Nation, which is like, oh man, this is so campy, it's garbage, you know.
	Yeah, those are definitely my kind my favorite kinds of dystopian movies is you use the dystopia as a pretense to put the characters in an extreme situation, and then the the movie's really about character development, it's a human story and not a zombie story.
	Yep, exactly.
	I I I mean, a lot of people say this.
	I know I'm I'm biased, but I think Battlestars succeeded in that way too.
	Like it's it happens to be sci-fi and it's in space, but it's really more about the characters, it's more of a drama.
	That's what I tell everyone when I recommend it.
	First episode of that series is so badass.
	Yeah.
	The mini series first episode in the series is is amazing, right?
	Just they think he's about ready, uh Dama's about ready to retire.
	You know, the whole show is just about a guy trying to retire.
	God damn it, I guess I'll do another mission.
	So can I ask you some some like uh fan stuff about the show?
	Absolutely, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean it's been it's been a minute, so yeah, who's your who's your favorite character?
	Would be my first not your own character.
	Uh yeah, definitely guys, Baltar.
	Oh, yeah, he was such a good actor.
	Yeah, people so good.
	Yeah, exactly.
	My dad hated him.
	I made my dad watch it, and he's he was actually like so unlikable, right?
	He's like that's what I loved about him.
	Like a psychopath, yeah.
	It's great.
	Yeah, I like him a lot in the first I actually I actually related to him in the first two seasons.
	I liked him.
	Yeah, I mean it's good.
	He's a he's a good character.
	I mean, but he's like, and he was not written like that.
	Like, if you read the script, um, the original, like the mini-series script, uh, it did not read on the page that um much of a character.
	Like James Callis, the actor really brought brought that character to life in that way.
	And then the writers kind of fed off that.
	Um, but that's something that's something that I think that puppy dog look that oh my god, yeah, totally, totally.
	It's like how every whipped guy looks.
	Whatever you want, babe, whatever you want.
	That was what was like irritating about him, right?
	It's like, you know, he comes off to other people as a strong god guys, yeah, yeah.
	You know, intimidated by this, but it's machine, yeah.
	Yeah, and so then you might have just answered this question for me, but which character was most unlike the actor that portrayed them?
	Uh that I would just be so surprised, like, oh, that person's actually uh fill in the blank.
	Well, uh Apollo is is British.
	Oh, really?
	So that makes a lot of sense.
	He did pronounce words a little weird, and I thought he had a kind of yeah, just a little bit off, and I thought he had a speech thing.
	Um, fair enough.
	Um, I'm trying to think I don't think there's anyone pro sorry.
	I just said fake as TV actors.
	Just teasing Dicky.
	Um I don't know that anyone is like so different.
	I mean, Eddie almost really was a lot like his character.
	Like he would give us speeches, you know, at the lunch table about like this is gonna change your life.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	What about the stash?
	Was the stash real in season three?
	Yeah.
	What's the stash?
	I forgot to do that.
	Because time went by.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	I used to shave my I was gonna shave mine before the show, but I was like kind of lazy, so it's like, nah.
	Did Apollo actually gain all that weight for the role?
	Uh no, he he had a fat suit.
	He had a fat suit.
	That's awesome.
	I figured.
	Yeah.
	I actually got pregnant though.
	Just kidding.
	Oh, basis for like, what?
	Uh oh man.
	Sex cult victim claims to be impregnated.
	That's like the only thing, the only take.
	Of course, yeah.
	You need to investigate BSG now, you know, like what else went out went on in the set.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it was pretty scandalous.
	Uh no, not really.
	Okay, that's all the questions I got there.
	That's all you got.
	Yeah, everything's everything's been answered for you.
	Yeah.
	So Nikki, I don't know if you I don't know if you want to talk about it or not.
	So we don't have to, but I know that there's sort of some things in the works.
	Did you wanted to mention anything that's going on with any of the cases or um any of that stuff?
	Uh so I I am endeavoring on a very interesting project that I'll be um speaking more about soon, which is I'm partnering with someone who has been uh kind of an arch nemesis throughout throughout this story to investigate the truth and investigate the due process and how the government handled it.
	Um so we we're we're putting our differences aside and we're investigating, you know, whether whether the government um violated due process rights in being able to get these convictions.
	Now, obviously, I have my opinions from my first hand experience and what I know to be true, but I also understand because there's so much prejudice and hate and misinformation that you know the most important thing is first to examine the process, and then we can start to kind of uncover and unfold the truth.
	Um so I'm very I'm very excited about that.
	I think it'll be very interesting for people to follow along.
	There's just so much uh just misinformation, like people have so many assumptions about what happened that aren't true, and it's sort of like playing whack-a-mole trying to be like address all those things and that's why I think the most important thing is is to first examine the process.
	How did this happen?
	How do we get here?
	And hopefully in doing that and uncovering the ways in which the government can basically fabricate a narrative and put people in prison, we can prevent it from happening again.
	Like I think people should care about this.
	People should care that the constitution goes out the window as soon as someone is hated and that the media can make anyone be hated.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Wow I can't wait for that.
	Do you have a timeline?
	Very soon.
	So like potentially within the next week I'll let you know as soon as I that's really cool.
	I'm excited to see that.
	So are are are are you and this other party both open to completely changing your mind if you discover yes that's excellent question because that's an essential part of the agreement.
	We joke about we're both endeavoring to deprogram each other.
	And um you know I I feel very willing as I have been this whole time to accept information that might be uncomfortable or inconvenient.
	And the reality is, you know, it would be so much easier for me.
	Like what I'm standing for and against right now makes me very unpopular.
	But to me, the truth is important.
	People's rights are important.
	And that's why I'm taking the stance that I am.
	If I'm wrong, I'll absolutely admit it.
	And the thing that I think is different about my position is I haven't hurt anyone.
	Like if I'm wrong, you know, okay, that was embarrassing or that is not good or whatever.
	But I don't, I haven't put anyone in prison.
	I haven't sued anyone.
	I haven't defamed anyone.
	So I don't have a lot to lose.
	People on the other side, you know, have a lot to lose.
	So that's why.
	They're going to fight like hell.
	They're going to fight like hell because they don't want to lose because they have a lot to lose and you have nothing to lose.
	Yeah.
	So.
	Wow.
	Well, I can't wait to see, to see how that plays out.
	Such a crazy, crazy, wild story.
	And, you know, regardless of what the outcome is of like a NXIVM specific investigation, it's unquestionable or undeniable that we have some serious criminal justice problems in the United States in terms of who doesn't get prosecuted, who does get prosecuted.
	Prosecutions that are used just to bully, even, you know, when district attorneys know that there's not any sort of potential for a favorable outcome for the prosecution.
	Right.
	We see this, we're seeing a lot more political prosecutions and litigation than traditionally.
	And so, you know, if along the way we can make some corrections to this, and I don't know how, but that's a huge, a huge win for everybody in America.
	And that's just it.
	Like in the conversations I've had with this other person, know at the end of the day if if I were to find that Keith isn't the person I thought he was I would still be doing all the same things I'm doing because again if the process was corrupt it matters it doesn't matter if the person is hated or or is a bad person I would stand by anyone's rights.
	Yeah, right.
	Exactly.
	Just like what happened with Cosby where, you know, everybody knows that he's, everybody, I think.
	Everybody has a good idea of what he did.
	That he's probably a scumbag.
	Yeah.
	But, you know, you got to let him out if the prosecution was illegal and we forget this country.
	And you can't allow that to be like, you know, to set a precedent where you allow prosecutorial misconduct to just go unanswered because that would mean that they could get away with anything.
	Right.
	You might as well just be living in a dictatorship where, you know, a guy just says, OK, I'm sending you a jail.
	No trial.
	No trial necessary.
	And that's that's the thing that I have learned about the justice system in this country that I really had no idea about.
	I I admittedly and and I'm kind of ashamed that I didn't do my due diligence To really understand the issues in this country because many demographics know how it works, but we pride ourselves on having a justice system, you know, but we don't.
	People literally, as long as you can make someone hated, you can convict them.
	Like, and that can be in the media, that can be in the courtroom, whatever it is.
	You know, and we it's interesting.
	We were talking earlier about our emotional biases and being kind of swept away by our emotions, but having the self-awareness to recognize that's not reality.
	But we're just not living in a culture where people are educated and informed and able to separate those things.
	You know, the whole trial, Keith's Keith Reneri's whole trial was just prejudice.
	Like most of the testimony had nothing to do with the charges.
	It was just painting him like this evil guy.
	Exactly right.
	And you see it in civil suits too.
	I mean, you look at if you if you go to the men's rights movement and you look at the uh you look at you know, the the um uh custody rates between versus men and women and alimony rates and things like that that nature, and it's just you you see how the empathy for single mothers plays out in the judicial system, you know, and it's good to have empathy for for single mothers, but there's a lot of guys out there that you know probably should have more time with their kids regardless of divorce.
	Most women only face like something like what two-fifths of the time served compared to men for yeah, honestly, if if we if we don't reduce the amount of uh unlawful incarceration, we should at least increase the amount of time that we're putting women in prison.
	Throw lock them up, man.
	Yeah, like equal left, equal rights, right?
	Yeah, right.
	Well, I just think that the laws should apply to the people who enforce them as well.
	Because that's the thing, there's no accountability.
	Prosecutors, judges, law enforcement, like they can get away with pretty much anything.
	You know, it's funny, they they want to get rid of uh qualified immunity from police, right?
	With you know, I wouldn't say good reason because their reasoning is is very really, you know, it's bad, right?
	Basically, they just want to accuse every cop of of police brutality.
	But it's curious how no one's really brought that up with the prosecutors.
	It's like, why do they get qualified immunity?
	I mean, they can literally lie on stand, you know.
	And I and I have a theory, and I've spoken to people who've been uh I guess some people say criminal criminal justice involved, like who who've been to prison or still in prison, and I've asked them like, would you be so afraid of police?
	Would you resist arrest if you thought it got if you thought you got would get a fair trial?
	And really, like the issue isn't so much police, it's that they know once they're arrested, they're fucked.
	Yep, really like they have no defense, they're not gonna get a lawyer who will invest the time necessary to even to understand their case, let alone defend it.
	Um, and and they're not going to get a fair trial.
	If there's especially if there's a woman accusing them of something, or you know, they have prior cooperating witness or you know, some confession from someone else, like they know they're screwed.
	That doesn't get a lot of that doesn't get talked about a lot.
	I think I hear a lot of um, I'm thinking of someone like Colman Hughes who was talking about police brutality, he happens to be an African American.
	Um, and he relates back, you know, yes, I've had racist incidents with the cops, but I was raised to say I was raised to keep both hands on the wheel and say yes, sir, and you know, and and that would basically solve the problem.
	Um, but I haven't heard it articulated that a lot of people in those situations actually it's their resistance could potentially be just due to their lack of faith in the criminal justice system.
	That's a problem.
	Not the police, not police, specifically the criminal justice system.
	Society tells them that whatever happens to them, they're fucked.
	So that's why some of them tend to run, even though they don't do anything wrong.
	You know, maybe they did something else, like maybe they smoked pot or something, right?
	And then they're thinking, oh, fuck, I'm fucked, I'm fucked, I'm fucked.
	You know, I'm gonna get shot because the media tells me I'm gonna get shot.
	So they will, you know, respond in a way that will cause them to get shot.
	Yeah, but but specifically Nikki's saying it's not that they're I mean, it's a lot, it's definitely a lie that you're you're guaranteed to get shot if you're black by the police.
	And there are ways to behave and conduct yourself and Do not have that happen to you.
	But what Nikki, I think you're saying is but there aren't ways you can behave.
	The police aren't the problem, it's the criminal justice system that has to worry.
	Yeah, they're going through us to fill.
	Yeah, well, for example, I I uh I have a friend, so I know a number of people who are in prison now, and and some of some who've gotten out.
	And um one of my friends, he lives in the Bronx, he was being asked to come down to the precinct to talk to the detective, and he had a bunch of charges thrown at him by a former friend.
	Now I know for a fact, because I'm close with this person what the situation was about.
	It's kind of a, you know, he said she said thing, no one was hurt, but the person got really angry and went to the police.
	So but the detective was telling him, like, I know that her story doesn't add up.
	I just need you to come down and sign this paperwork so that I can have the paperwork done.
	Now my friend has been incarcerated, he doesn't trust anyone in a uniform, and he's he's dying, like he's having a panic attack, he's making himself sick, he's so afraid, and he's like starting to get angry with with the detective and defensive and start a fight.
	And I'm like, you can't do this, like you have to just go.
	At the same time, I feel like I'm trying to convince him to like go in front of the firing squad, because I don't know.
	I don't know if this detective is being honest.
	Sometimes they're not honest.
	He sounds like what he's saying makes sense, but here I am trying to convince him to go down and just to sign the paperwork, but he thinks he's gonna get locked up, and it's such a difficult situation.
	But I can see how someone who's just his whole life has been, you know, abused by the system and by police, doesn't trust them.
	It ended up that he was able to go sign the paperwork and he was okay, thank goodness.
	But like without the capacity to like handle emotions and evaluate what's really going on, he thought the whole world was out to get him that day.
	So it's it's tragic.
	It's tragic because they're not, you know, a lot of people don't have the support, the emotional kind of resources or you know, the understanding of everything that's going on to navigate it in a way that's not gonna get them in more trouble.
	You need so a lot of times, you know, when you're put in a difficult situation in a tough spot, you need someone else to evaluate the position for you.
	You need to have them look into the situation and inform you of what you need to do because you cannot make these decisions on your own.
	You're you know, you you have this tunnel vision, and all you're seeing is the firing squad.
	You're seeing the bad outcome, right?
	You're warrant, you're panicking.
	But the fact is, you know, let's say you're in a bad situation where someone is uh you know made up lies about you, you that's all you see.
	That's the only thing you hear because your brain is so focused on it, it's looking for patterns that it's ignoring the fact that you know 99% of people out there either have they don't care or they've seen it and they don't care, right?
	They just don't know about it and just don't care.
	And so you have to ask somebody, someone you know that you trust, obviously, and have them evaluate that situation with you because they are able to navigate you because you know at that point it's like it's like that that movie that Senator Bullock movie where she's got a blindfold on and she needs to have someone else lead her.
	It's like that, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So so Nikki, um, you know, one of the things I'm really curious about in terms of um our incarcerations system is uh people don't really talk about the abuse.
	Uh there's this, you know, there are rumors and jokes and stuff, but I did a little bit of research on this.
	I don't know if this is true or if you know any more, if it's just off base, but um the research that I did, um the extent of it was Wikipedia pages was that was that um there's actually the majority of abuse that occurs within prisons is actually from is guard on prisoner, not prisoner on prisoner.
	Is that is that consistent with your experience in terms of speaking with um those incarcerated?
	Um just not coming up.
	No, I mean I I definitely so depending on the type of prison.
	Um, you know, if it's like a a maximum or a camp uh or a pretrial facility, the culture is very different, and it's all run by politics.
	So, You know, there's the you know, people who are gang affiliated, people who associate because they've been charged with certain types of crimes.
	There's it's all political, there's all sorts of rules.
	Um, and so there's if you want to call them like abuses that happen when you break those rules or codes and and things like that.
	Um in terms of guards, uh it's interesting.
	Like I think there are guards who are good people, they're just doing a job, they're underpaid.
	It's a hard job, especially like I said, like you're dealing with sometimes with violent felons who have no respect for guards and they're constantly testing them.
	So that's that's challenging.
	But then there are guards who really take uh advantage of the fact that they have weapons and you know, bulletproof vests and have this ultimate, ultimate power.
	And I think there are even there's a lot of there's a lot of corruption, like all the cell phones, all the drugs, um, all the contraband that gets in prisons.
	Yeah.
	So think about since COVID, there's been no visitors, and yet drugs, cell phones, contraband, contraband has run rampant.
	How does it get in there?
	You know, there's yeah, it's all they all have a not all of them, a lot of them have a side hustle because they don't get paid very much, and it's very compelling.
	You know, you can you can sell a cell phone for a thousand dollars.
	Really?
	How do you get how do you how do you if you're a prisoner, how do you pay, how do you pay somebody off?
	You got family send you money and then you send it, you give it to them or yeah, like uh through Cash App or um there's there's different, I guess, ways that they can move.
	Bitcoin for the win.
	Huh?
	Yeah, big coin.
	Yeah.
	But um, but to answer your question, I mean there's definitely yeah, it just people take advantage um of their positions and there's a culture around it.
	You know, there's definitely a culture around it.
	Um there's a book, really interesting book called American Prison, and uh it's uh a journalist went undercover.
	His name's Shane Bauer, I believe.
	He went undercover as a and became a CEO at a private prison in Louisiana.
	And he talks about the training and how the CEOs of this corporation, which private prisons are being kind of zoned out, at least in the criminal uh world, but but he talks about how they treat it like a corporation, like you're part of this money-making scheme, essentially, and they're very transparent about it.
	And the training when you learn about how they're taught to deal with inmates and how to objectify them and not see them as people, like they're they're taught deliberately to never if if they feel like they start treating them as a human being, like that's when they need to like put on the brakes and you know, not see them that way.
	It's it's really the whole system, the whole the whole thing.
	So really so the first half of your description of the criminal justice system, it's appeared to me as if fundamentally the problem wasn't systemic per se.
	It was more just a widespread lack of integrity.
	Um, and then the latter half, that last thing you just shared sounded like that might have been a systemic problem.
	And some I would mean by systemic.
	I don't know.
	Well, you hear a lot about there's systemic problems, and we need so there's some law in the books, or there's some um perverse incentive where private prisons are incentivized to keep people in there longer.
	So I'm wondering, Nikki, in your eyes, where does it break down?
	How much of this is just humans, a fundamental lack of integrity on on the part of a bunch of humans involved, and how much of this is sort of codified into our laws and our systems and and perverse and caused by perverse incentives.
	Um, well, I mean, it's definitely a system, you know, like kind of when you look at uh other problems, like you can't just change one thing, like you you replace one thing in a car, you know, and then and then other things start to go.
	So it's it's not just as simple as changing a law.
	Um I I think I don't think the issue is uh that we need to change laws really.
	I think we need to change people.
	I think we need to change the culture, uh, both in prosecutors' offices, um in the way we view people who commit crimes.
	I think, you know, like most of the world thinks of criminals as these like bad people.
	Once and once you're a felon, you have such a difficult time reintegrating into into society, mostly because of how you're viewed.
	And then within prisons, again, there's a culture.
	There's a culture that starts from the warden down, but it it's systemic, I suppose, in the way that like there's a feedback loop.
	Inmates are treated a certain way.
	So then they treat guards a certain way.
	And it it feeds off itself.
	So one of the talking points I will always hear is this abolish the private prisons.
	How much effect would that have on it?
	Zero.
	I mean I mean the federal and state prisons are essentially private prisons.
	It's just the money goes to the government.
	Yeah.
	Well I mean the question would be like like how would how is the question is how is how is private prison hypothetically making the problem worse.
	And the only thing I could think of would be if you were able to like make a link between private prisons lobbying for uh longer sentences for crimes, for example.
	So like that would be like an example if that were happening of private they could be setting the inmates up for failure so that you could purposefully bring all the black nationalists and the white supremacist into the same room so that they'll fight so you can keep them longer.
	This is totally hypothetical, but you could see how that.
	No, but there are.
	So I know someone who was released last year and, you know, he's on probation and there's all these rules.
	And he was getting his life together.
	He was going on job interviews.
	He got a car.
	He got a place to live.
	And he ended up violating.
	To the best of my understanding, it was some paperwork with his car that he didn't register when he was supposed to.
	And he got in front of the judge and he's still in a county jail.
	He's been in a county jail for almost two months now.
	And, you know, it's the same judge who's handled this case for years and years.
	There's the same the same prosecutor in his words.
	Now, obviously, I'm only getting his side of the story, but he doesn't have a lot of reason to lie to me.
	Like, you know, I find him pretty honest.
	You're going on One American Podcast with Chase Geiser, right?
	Here's my story.
	Make sure you say it like this.
	Yeah, right?
	Exactly.
	But he he told me that the that his parole officer and the U.S. marshals, you know, they I forget what the comment was specifically, but they basically view him as dollar signs.
	You know, like they they know that him being locked up.
	So he got an 18 month sentence in federal prison for this violation that that's they get money for that.
	Absurd.
	And he's going to be on probation again when he gets out for that.
	So he better not screw up the paperwork.
	Yeah.
	It's like that woman.
	She.
	Yeah.
	This is African-American woman.
	She's like, what, 71 or something?
	Yeah, I saw that article.
	Right.
	She.
	She was in a computer class learning how to better herself, you know, how to learn skills, like useful skills.
	And the parole officer calls her up.
	And obviously, she's got her phone silenced because she's in class.
	And then because she didn't pick up, she's he has an arrest warrant out on her.
	And now she's in jail.
	It's like, what the hell?
	It's so sick.
	That's fucked up.
	It's so sick.
	fucked up wow well I guess the only way we can fix it is to raise awareness and actually get people to support candidates that have the um the muscle to do it.
	Yeah, it's not about abolishing the police or abolishing the prisons either.
	I mean, the prisons themselves are not the problem.
	It's the system.
	The way it's run, that's the issue.
	It's the culture surrounding it.
	It's the people and what's incentivized.
	You know, like prosecutors are incentivized to win.
	So I think there's a lot we can do, you know, we the people, by bringing attention, by sending messages to prosecutors and judges that they can't just sweep
	corruption they can't just under the rug they can't just cheat and get away with it I think we need an arm of journalism that's dedicated solely to that because right now many journalists uh don't want to burn bridges their with their government sources and things like that like I I found that a very difficult thing in trying to bring attention to the corruption in our case is like people don't people don't want to say bad things about the the person in the DA's office that gives them leaves.
	You know, one thing that could solve the problem in my mind is if we made it so that if you're a public defender and you win your case, you get a fat bonus.
	And we don't even have to change anything about the prosecution relationship.
	But what that would do would it would keep the DA from pressing charges uh if they have less confidence in the case because they know that it costs the state money paying fat bonuses to do to public defender.
	Yeah, you incentivize the defender busts his ass.
	Yeah, the public defender busts his ass instead of just like push you know shuffling papers around like that could be one thing like hey, listen, every case you win, you get a brand, or you get yeah, you get five grand every case you win.
	Yeah, you're solving a state state problem with a capitalist solution because look, we live in a capitalist society.
	Why not go all the way?
	I mean, this actually works.
	I mean, curiously, like in Singapore, uh, what they do is in order to accommodate for the fact that people are corrupt and and you know, like many people will take bribes, is they pay government salaries.
	Like if you work for the government, you get paid an insane amount of money.
	Like we're talking CEO salaries here, you know.
	So people feel like, okay, if I do something, oh, I'm gonna lose all this money, you know.
	So guess what?
	They're uncorruptible because of that.
	It's brilliant.
	It works.
	And people, you know, you might get angry and be like, well, why are they getting paid like $500,000?
	I'm like, well, because they do their job.
	That's why and and you attract the best and the brightest people that would have gone into the private sector.
	Exactly.
	I'm not sure.
	Yeah, I'm not so sure about about how um how that would play out in the United States, because it's not like our politicians aren't making a lot of money on the side from that job.
	That's on the side only because they're not gonna sign off though.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, if you take that away, you take that off the equation.
	Then you know, they might actually be inclined to actually work for the people because they're getting paid by the people.
	Yeah, I don't think you should be able to trade stocks if you're if you hold off while you hold office.
	You should be able to have your portfolio when you go in and hold it or sell it, but not buy anything.
	And I think that would solve a lot of problems.
	I think it would solve a little bit, but I mean, of course, you could still make uh decisions based on what you know you're holding.
	And yeah, but I mean you're gonna hard best massive amounts of money and mask manufacturing businesses, for example, and then make all these mandates with your leverage to for people to wear double masks, like stuff like that happens.
	I don't know if that's uh a real example, but in the resurrection.
	Usually in the military.
	I mean, look at look at uh uh what's his face, uh Dick Cheney, right?
	Dick Cheney's a hell of a character, yeah, hell of a Dick Cheney like Santa's little elf.
	Allie Burton had had a huge stock in Halliburton while you know starting a war in Iraq to I mean, I won't say you know, I'm not full on cynical, I'm not full on anti-neocon.
	I mean, I am anti-neocon, just not full on.
	I don't believe conspiracy theories, but you know, you you will admit, I mean, I think anyone can admit that he made a lot of money, he made a lot of bank there, you know, by having Halliburton drill for oil in Iraq.
	Now, obviously that didn't really work out very well for anyone because you know Iraq's a shit show.
	But you know, the idea is that you know, in in during that period of time, he personally at least made money.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Yeah.
	I wonder how we always I wonder how I um the terrorists keep seeming to win in the Middle East when they don't have any nuclear weapons or F-15s.
	Yeah, we maybe should use those things on them.
	They would think twice, you know.
	Oh god.
	Yeah, go full on school.
	This is the thing.
	I mean, like look at what we did to me.
	I mean, look at what the allies did to Japan, right?
	In in World War II, you know, just completely level their cities, you know, to Tokyo goes fine.
	As a vegetarian, how do you feel about all the animals that would inevitably be lost in the case of nuclear war?
	Forget about the citizens.
	Yeah, right.
	No, I mean, I definitely would would care more about the people.
	So I guess I'm not a true vegan.
	Speciesist, you know, as Peter Singer would say, or speciesist.
	You think human lives are more valuable than the uh the billion or so uh uh animals that would lose their lives in the News of War.
	Ian does does Peter Singer really think that?
	Yeah, you wrote animal liberation.
	Have you read that book?
	No, it's about species.
	I've heard some of some of his anti-natalist arguments.
	I heard one preposterous one about uh post-birth abortions from him.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	But no, he doesn't believe that speciesist?
	Uh yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, that's that's the the whole foundation of like militant veganism.
	Now keep in mind, I I wasn't a militant vegan, but I did, you know, like try to experiment veganism for a while.
	I mean, it could sound like it was a drug or something.
	You went through an experimental phase in uh college, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Did a little bit of veganism, you know, dabbled in it, right?
	And and uh, you know, read Peter Singer, Animal Liberation.
	I mean, this is why like I used to be on the left, right?
	And people say, Oh, you're just a grifter.
	It's like, no, I was actually on the left.
	So I read Peter Singer, I was a vegan, and uh, you know, one of the things he's he talks about is speciesism, right?
	It's like where you value human life over the lives of you know animals, right?
	And now he's not talking about insects, because obviously if you if you slap an insect, that's you know, it's surviving.
	I would imagine it goes up with sentience, the moral concern.
	Yeah, sentience, yeah.
	Basically, like, you know, dogs, cats, dolphins, elephants, and sort of thing.
	And so, you know, why is your life as a human worth more than you know, one dog's life, you know?
	Like well, I'm not sure I'm being rational about this, but I just listened to a podcast with Yan Me Park, which was a the North Korean refugee, on Friedman, and she was talking about how much breaks her heart that people will go up in arms if anybody abuses a dog.
	I mean, geez, Louise, you could start a GoFundMe and raise a quarter of a million dollars in two in 20 minutes.
	And she goes, 'There's people being literally starved to death in North Korea, and nobody does, and it's yeah.
	Well I mean, people in prison in this country.
	If if their dog, if a dog was being treated the way people in prisons are treated, especially during COVID, John Way like you said, there would be a GoFundMe, there would be you know, uh, a call to action.
	And um, no, it's it's to me that that's not right.
	A lot of the reasons.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	In China, you know, like a lot of the people live in the cities, they are opposed to the dog eating festival, right?
	The the one that they do every year, the Gwillin Festival.
	It's that's real important to them.
	And rightly so, right?
	I mean, it's it's disgusting because what they do to the dogs is evil.
	But these very same people who, you know, in China will protest about this, they will make a lot of noise in social media, they'll even take to the streets.
	None of them will say a single thing about you know what's happening in Zinjiang.
	They don't care.
	They're like, Oh, I buy Zinjang cotton, no big deal.
	You know, it's it's cotton's cotton, who cares?
	You know, I I don't know where it came from, whatever.
	You know, like that's that seems to be how they are.
	Whereas, you know, they hear about the dog eating thing and suddenly like everybody's offended by it.
	Because, you know, like I mean, I I understand it on a certain level.
	It's like it there's like a visceral reaction.
	You love dogs.
	We grew up with dogs and they're innocent humanity.
	So it's not a good idea.
	Yeah, and they're like defenseless.
	I think I think for me, so much of it has to do with precisely that is what it does to our own humanity that we hurt and are violent towards uh a being that we can project into, you know, like we can look at a dog and be like, oh, he's happy because his mouth is turned up, or you know, like we can project uh an emotional you have a smiling dog.
	Yeah, dog smiles.
	So yeah, my dog's awesome.
	My dog's amazing.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So what does it mean that we can you know do what we do to animals when we can project into them, and what does that do to our own sense of humanity?
	So for me, it's it's the same kind of argument.
	I don't, it's not that I value the life the same, it's more like the the metaphor of it.
	Well, and that's a classic um uh indicator of a uh a sociopath or a psychopath, rather.
	Um, is that you know, in their childhood, did they hurt animals, right?
	Yeah, and so there's a definitely a correlation between like the extent to which you have a conscience and your willingness to hurt animals.
	Yeah.
	So important.
	So yeah, which is one of the things that I think is so funny about this uh the Nexium thing, Nikki is uh not that anything's funny about it, but you're a vegan because you love animals so much, yet you know, you you allegedly were involved in this, you know, human uh abusive sort of organization.
	It's like, you know, like it doesn't add up.
	He would do that.
	It doesn't add up.
	Even though there's not a single accusation.
	But like actually, for you, Nikki, but it does add up.
	I've encountered so much anti-human sentiment coming from people that are particularly concerned about the environment, right?
	Yeah, extinction and rebellion, right?
	Yeah, but Nikki's actually concerned.
	She's not virtual, she's not virtuous.
	Like Ian was virtue signaling when he was a vegan.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	No, and and it's true.
	I think I mentioned this, Chase, when I came on your podcast about that episode of um 30 days, where uh like a hunter from the Midwest went and lived with a a vegan family, and and I found him far more humanitarian than this family, because they were angry and they were like judging him, whereas he was actually open minded, he changed some of his views and was very kind.
	And like for me, that that's what it's about.
	I don't yeah, I I think um, you know, compassion and and empathy and and humanitarianism is not about what you eat, it's about how you are.
	Yeah.
	And a good way to turn people against other people is a lie about them and claim they hurt small animals, you know.
	That's a that's a thing that people are actually doing to me.
	In fact, I was gonna say that sounds very specifically personal.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, like people, you know, they they'll make up some lie about you that's completely difficult to disprove, you know.
	I mean, it's it's possible to disprove, but it's difficult, right?
	And it waste your time with it, and then they you know, in the meantime, they stoke up emotions because you know, people are like, Oh, Ian hurt a small animal or something, and then they all, you know, they jump on that bandwagon, right?
	Oh yeah, like people, yeah, like wow, this fun story, right?
	Yeah.
	What'd you do to Fauci and when did you meet him?
	That damn wrote it.
	No, it's booty judge, actually.
	Oh, Pete.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, you know, like people, you know, they they just sling accusations around.
	Not that they can even prove it or anything like that.
	And it, you know, to get some they they paint you in the worst light possible, and then you know, if you say anything about it, you draw attention to it.
	Even like by bringing it up right now, I'm sure some of them are watching this, you know, the haters, they're gonna be like, Oh, see, look, he's admitting to it.
	I'm like, no, I'm not admitting to anything.
	I didn't do anything wrong.
	You know, it's like so a bunch of people made up this lie that I I swatted someone and killed their dog.
	Like I somehow got the SWAT police.
	Oh, I read that.
	I just assumed it was true and I didn't care.
	Nice.
	I mean, I cared about the dog, but I was like, aha, you swatted somebody.
	That's stupid.
	It's fine if you actually had the ability to SWAT people, but you know, that would require calling 911 and and never actually done that.
	C definitely call the police on people for committing crimes though.
	But you know, the if you're not gonna be able to do it.
	So the whole SWAT thing is just totally made up bullshit.
	Yeah, that's a swatting part, it's all complete nonsense.
	Yeah, it's like two different stories of reason to work.
	Right?
	Yeah, yeah, like as soon as this guy, he doxes people.
	He's like uh he he doxes all these journalists, you know, like he's going left and right doxing people, like like it's his fucking hobby or something, right?
	So now he gets his come up and somebody has his docs, sends it to me.
	I pass it along to somebody else, and then a whole bunch of people find out about it because you know, leaky pipes, right?
	Somebody leaked it that I had it somehow.
	And so a bunch of people confront me on some stupid podcast, uh, and then they're like, Oh, Ian did you have to dox.
	I'm like, Yeah, I did, you know.
	And then the dude who I apparently had his docs, right, shows up and he's like, Don't you know doxing people's dangerous?
	You know, like a like for instance, you know, and then he comes up with this weird story about how uh like he had a dog and it was like a golden retriever, and you know, even like gives it a name.
	I actually don't remember if you gave it a name, but he claims that you know, in in a hypothetical situation, if somebody got doxed, somebody could potentially swat them.
	And then, you know, like are are you gonna pay for the dog, Ian?
	You know, like what is it?
	What's a swat what's swatting me?
	Swatting is like when you call the police and somebody uh and it's like a false alarm thing, you know, like you say like they this person says they have a bomb in their house, so that actually SWAT team break into their house.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And people have gotten you know injured over this.
	This does happen quite a bit with like on Twitch, right?
	Uh in fact the New York Times has this huge article about the serial swatter and he what he would do, he was uh would often call the SWAT team to like uh streamers that he didn't like or who pissed it off in some way.
	And the first time it happened, it was hilarious, but then it like kept happening, and it's like, wait, guys, we gotta stop.
	Like you see the guy streaming, and it's like this kid, and he's like saying all these like bad words and he's being just a snot and all of a sudden it's like, get on the club!
	You know, you see it on the webcam.
	Don't you go to jail for doing that?
	Yeah, I is in jail for that because he's like, you know, he got a dude killed big over some weird.
	But did he right?
	Yeah, he did.
	Yeah, with our with our justice system.
	Yeah, he didn't know.
	He was a stupid, he admitted it on on like uh he admitted it in an interview.
	He actually admitted to swatting this guy.
	He was like, Oh, the police are gonna get me.
	And but everybody knew who he was.
	Like they people had doxxed him.
	So, you know, like the whole idea is doxing.
	Well, it's publicly available information, whatever.
	Anyway, this guy makes up this weird story about the dog, and like, you know, he keeps telling me to apologize for it.
	I'm like, all right, yeah, I'm sorry for your dog.
	Ha ha ha ha.
	You know, I mean, it's like such a ludicrous story.
	So you had a false confession.
	A false confession, yeah.
	And then now obviously everybody listening to the stream, they know it's a fucking joke, right?
	Because it's right, they were there for it.
	But then, you know, it it gets split through like Chinese again, a Chinese telephone, and now everybody, like whether you know, if they're like Antifa or if they're like on the uh, you know, I would say I won't say don't write like the the fringe communities on the internet and they don't like me or something, you know, like the like the comics get community, some of them don't like me because they they know a guy who knows the guy who knows Ian, you know, it's like they're all repeating this weird story about how I how I you know dock somebody and then I swat at their house and I killed a dog.
	It's like, you know, you guys just like you you're fucking stupid, you're retarded, you know.
	Like, I'm just gonna say it, you're fucking retarded if you believe that because you can look into the evidence yourself and you'll see that you put out a video of it.
	Yeah, like I've watched several months to debunk it, right?
	And it's like literally a video of uh uh of police uh raiding some drug den in like 2015, which is like years way before this guy claimed something happened.
	Years before you had a drug drug.
	I I didn't look into it.
	Yeah, because most bad press, I just kind of I just go, uh forget.
	Yeah, that's how I am too.
	Like, I mean, like if I read something bad about you know any one of you, like Nikki, for example, I've read a lot of bad things about you before even talking to you.
	But you know, in my personal interactions with you, it's like, oh, none of this even adds up.
	So even if it's true, it's like who gives a fuck, you know?
	That's how I treat people.
	Like it doesn't bother me one bit.
	And but some people, you know, they are so you know, they have all these emotions and they they're just ready to pass judgment because they want to think they're better than you somehow.
	So they'll they'll read somebody saying something bad about you, you know, maybe maybe they're a fan of that person or they trust that person or you know, whatever reason, like it's a weird parasocial relationship that a lot of people have with influencers, whether it's YouTubers and Twitch streamers.
	Well, it it it's a weird Machiavellian thing too, because people feel like it's okay to lie or do the wrong thing if the ultimate end is good, right?
	And I think we see this in our justice system too, yeah.
	You know, the police are convinced they're convinced this guy did it, but they don't have enough evidence to press charges, so they like put fake evidence, you know.
	And they're they have good intentions, but yeah, they fucking go.
	You know, like I'm talking to a a writer right now, and he is facing false accusations of rape, right?
	I won't mention his name, I don't think he wants it to be public just yet.
	He's actually taking the support single single white dude, it's a single white dude, yeah.
	So uh this guy, you know, is facing false false accusations of rape that that that showed up, you know, from when he was like famous, he he basically got canceled by the press by the media, you know, and nobody really asked him any questions.
	They just sort of ran with that rate story, which you know is it's not provable, it's not real, it's not a real story.
	Uh and and and a lot of people, you know, after that initial accusation came out, which you know is outlandish as it is, and he can totally disprove that.
	He has a chat logs and and all the documents to prove that this person's lying about him.
	Uh, a bunch of other people who doesn't even know or like maybe met in passing, started making their own stories up.
	They're like, oh yeah, when when I actually went outs with him and you guys didn't even see this, but like this guy actually groped me.
	It's like when did this even happen?
	Like, I mean, they just they they want to pile on, and you know, I I've heard of a few stories like this where sometimes like a legitimate, you know, uh uh legitimate abuser, like an actual rapist in college or something.
	It's actually happened to a friend of mine many, many years ago.
	So you know, somebody raped her and a group of other girls in college, you know, like not at the same time, obviously, but sequentially, and then another girl comes up and and makes up the false accusation about this guy because she wants to join in, right?
	On on the dog pile.
	And so when when it went to when when it went to court, all that they had to do, all the uh the defense attorney had to do was disprove her one story and the whole thing just fell apart.
	Yeah, so the thing never went to court.
	That's the problem with with so many people, like first of all, victimhood being a currency that has incredible value in our society right now, that it incentivizes people to claim victimhood, and it it hurts real victims,
	it it hurts people who have actually been abused, who've actually been you know, raped or or had crimes committed against them because I know even like I try to be very critical and and um you know analyze things not emotionally,
	but I have a tendency to disbelieve because of my personal experience, you know, when there's an accusation of uh towards someone, I I have a tendency to you know not think it's it's credible.
	And I watch myself because I think you know abuse is a problem, and it's people who are um abusing power or or you know doing committing crimes most certainly should be held accountable, but it's just we've created this really inverted paradigm.
	Um where the re like I think abuses of power that especially you know women are doing against men are are terrible.
	Like it it's a silver bullet.
	You accuse a man of rape, it's over.
	You got him.
	We I think that maybe our our defamation laws are kind of lagging behind the times.
	It just wasn't.
	Well, there's freedom of press.
	It just wasn't the case that you could get tried in the court of public opinion in the same way that you can yet New York Times versus Twitter.
	The social media mob and all that stuff.
	I mean, you can really unleash hell on a on just an innocent civilian with some tweet shit, and we don't have a legal framework around it.
	Not I'm not saying that we necessarily we should, and uh, I'm not I'm still not.
	We do need to abolish New York Times v.
	Sullivan, uh, you know, in 1964, they they basically they want a case saying that they can defame you as much as they want, as long as they don't do it knowingly.
	So the media does that, and ever since then, you know.
	I'm not even talking about the media, I'm talking about this phenomena of the the court of public opinion and the and the online mob.
	That's that's exactly what happens though, because like you know, there are no sorry for interrupting, but there are like no legal ramifications to lying about someone.
	So what happens is the media, the m rather the mob, the social media goes after somebody, like say Ellie Kemper, right?
	That actress who was accused of being like a KKK member.
	Yeah, and and everybody in the media, well, maybe not everybody, but like a large amount of sites, you know.
	You had uh, I think uh what Daily Beast or something and all these other different websites, right?
	They were writing about how she's like a KKK princess, not based on any evidence at all, but based on the tweets, someone said she is, so therefore she is.
	It's like they didn't even bother to do any of their due diligence.
	I mean, it it it took uh you know a number of like larger publications with more you know uh prestige or standing to basically clear her name, but even then it was kind of kind of too late for her.
	So, Ian, do you remember in in the last vodka?
	Do you remember that story coming out of California that the Republicans were ballot harvesting in Southern California and they had that one guy, a picture of a guy who was out at a ballot box and it really looked like he was taking stolen ballots, and Jimmy Kimmel actually ran the story.
	Yeah, remember that it was a line of being on a truth.
	We should well, I had dinner with him the other night.
	Chase, I want to I want to get him on your podcast because he would just be the most fascinating person.
	Jimmy Kimmel, yeah, yeah, Jimmy Kimmel.
	Um he's he's it's a fascinating story.
	He had he was a total Nick Sandman.
	The media ran with this thing, they completely defamed him, and he's going after a few of the people, and I'm not gonna talk about any of that.
	But Jimmy Kimmel is protected because he he's a comedian.
	Yeah, but arguably Jimmy Kimmel did more damage than any of the media outlets because nobody read the OC register, right?
	What they watched was Jimmy Kimmel saying we should you know stuff this kid.
	He was he's young, he's he's my age, a little younger than me.
	We should stuff him in a mailbox.
	He's he he does he belongs in jail.
	Yeah, it was it was terrible.
	Jimmy Kimball completely defamed him.
	And the worst part is one, Jimmy Kimmel's immune from it, and two, California's anti-slap laws are so corrupt that he's worried if I go try and sue these people.
	Look, every single person in in the justice system in California is a Democrat.
	He's gonna sue them as a Republican.
	So he tries to go after this, they're gonna hit him with anti-slap laws, and he's gonna wind up having to pay their lawyers' fees, and he doesn't have enough money for that.
	So he's just completely, you know, he's screwed.
	Yeah.
	Like a few years ago when when Twitter was banning people, you know.
	I mean, Twitter was defaming people and then banning them for violating some nonsense rules.
	I I know the you suck by policy.
	Yeah, do you suck?
	Yeah.
	A bunch of conservatives actually got together with uh you know with serious lawyers to try to sue to look into suing uh uh Twitter, right?
	And lawyers did it for free because you know, good for them.
	Uh they wanted to offer the services, and so they looked into it, they did a bunch of research and they found that it would basically be impossible to sue uh Twitter because of the uh uh anti-slap laws in California.
	Yeah, the anti-slap laws, the the problem there's nothing like that.
	But there's there's a good intention, yeah.
	Yes, yeah, yeah.
	There's nothing wrong with anti-slap laws.
	Oh yeah, slap laws are a good idea.
	They work great until your entire justice department is Democrats.
	Yep.
	And then you're fucked.
	And then you can't do anything.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	That's the problem.
	I guess we lost Nikki.
	We got boring.
	Well, I think she got a call.
	I think she got a call.
	She'll be right out.
	She just messaged me.
	Um it's just not the same without her, though.
	No.
	I know.
	Yeah.
	No, it's a fucking sausage fist.
	Go.
	There's there's the gamergate in you right there.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I just suppress all of that.
	You know, like uh back in back in the day when I was on the left.
	All right.
	Uh I had to watch what I said.
	I couldn't say the words like retard because that gets you canceled.
	Like, oh my God, that's such an ablest term, you know.
	Why are you saying why are you calling people retards?
	Don't you know that some people are just born at deficiencies?
	I'm like, well, maybe God hates them.
	I don't know.
	You know, you know what I mean?
	Nobody calls, nobody calls it.
	No one actually calls mentally deficient people that yeah, I know.
	People call like it's like the South Park variation of it, right?
	It's like you're calling somebody a retard because they're acting like a retard.
	It's it's like its own thing.
	And somehow, you know, they've taken a playground insult because that's exactly what it is.
	It's a playground insult, just like anything else, and saying, Oh, that's problematic.
	You can't say that.
	And you know, it occurs to me.
	I got a thesis.
	It just it just formed in my brain right now, right?
	It basically goes like this.
	These people were bullied too much as kids, and so they can't take it, right?
	They couldn't take it.
	And now they're taking no, they weren't bullied enough.
	Exactly.
	Bring back bullying, make make bullying great again, right?
	Right.
	That should be Donald Trump's new slogan.
	Make bullying great again, 2022.
	So they got really mad about that, and now they have power.
	So they're like, Oh, I'm gonna get back at my school ground bully is gonna cancel them for calling me a retard.
	Yeah, that's where we are.
	Yeah.
	We go a little bit overboard with the policing of speech, but if there were ever a group that was actually defenseless and really should have us, you know, stand up for them, it would be the mentally disabled community.
	I have much less problem.
	Look, I think 2021, we just had an entire month full of gay crap.
	They can fend for themselves.
	I know a ton of awesome gay people that are very funny and ruthless and can come.
	Tim Dylan, right?
	Yeah, definitely stand up until he does not need to be protected from me saying the word fag, right?
	Yeah, it doesn't.
	The one the one word retard, actually.
	I had a I was in college and I said it in a college class, and a girl's brother was mentally handicapped and she and it made it.
	She was offended on his behalf, but not in a woke way.
	She was emotionally distraught in a in an earnest way.
	And I say to you.
	She just said please don't say that.
	You know, he he can't, you know, he can't think right.
	And you know, it's just not nice, and you shouldn't be the buddy or not.
	I'm assuming you weren't referring to him.
	I get it.
	My point is that if if there ever were a group to be politically correct towards, it would be the mentally handicapped.
	Excuse me.
	Um, I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't make fun of the don't be such a retard, Chase.
	I voted for Joe.
	I I voted for Joe Biden, and it's really close to home.
	So I'm offended on that on behalf of Joe Biden.
	I would cut out on behalf of anyone.
	You know, like the funny way to get back at any lib, right?
	Any liptard.
	Oh, there's another word there.
	You know, is uh when they when it tried to point something, it's like two words combined.
	Joe Biden, you voted for Joe Biden, shut the hell up, you know.
	Like that is all you need to say.
	Shut some down.
	Yeah, but that doesn't really work because nobody voted for him.
	Ah well, now that we've solved all the world's problems, this is probably a good ending point for us to say goodbye to each other until another time.
	All right.
	Now it's time to say goodbye.
	Sorry.
	Hating myself.
	All right, sing it for us, Nikki.
	Yeah, no.
	That's all I remember.
	But uh, this has been great.
	Thanks for bringing us together, Chase.
	Super fun.
	Thank you guys for agreeing to spend uh a couple hours of your time on a Monday night with me.
	I appreciate it.
	It's uh really um an honor to have you guys as friends and um feel so grateful and fortunate.
	Uh hashtag blessed to have you.
	Blessed.
	Nice.
	All right, guys.
	Take care.
	All right, nice.
	Bye.

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