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May 31, 2019 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
54:48
Milo on the Problems Facing Britain
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Time Text
Milo, how are you doing, my friend?
Thank you.
Nice for you to invite me.
This is a very familiar scenario for me, being drowned out by tuneless, talentless, weirdos.
Elevator music, as I came down the elevator in Marks and Spencer's, I think they were playing the same number.
Now, as you can gather if you've listened to him for about 15 minutes or 15 seconds, he's a very nice, reasonable, normal person.
I am not a nice, reasonable, normal person.
I am an attention seeker.
I am a little shit.
And I do that for a living, and that means that I have some very great successes and some very public and humiliating failures.
I'm like their band whose first album goes quadruple platinum and they spend the next five years wondering what the fuck they're gonna do now hasn't been easy the last two years.
But I've been watching I've been watching other people sort of pick up the mantle that I started on college campuses and probably the one that made me take the most notice is him.
So started as you sort of started as a reasonable centrist liberal whatever and now he sounds like a daily mail reader to me, which in my world is a compliment.
But him two years ago, he would have punched me.
But what it really means is that the political consensus has shifted, not him.
And reasonable, respectable, normal people, I may not be one of them, but I certainly understand them, I think, have found themselves in parties like UKIP, which is a very remarkable state of affairs.
I'm sort of terrified by the turn that things have taken in America.
I expect it here.
Hasn't really been free speech here for a really long time.
We're used to having people tell us what we can say and what we can do and how we can think.
It's still not a nice sight watching journalists crow and applaud the erosion of free speech.
Sort of chilling.
But not completely unexpected.
I don't mean to interrupt, but we've got some lovely attention seekers who are.
You can tell by the smirks on their faces.
Is this a vagina?
Is it really very serious about what they're doing?
No, no, I don't.
What is Candy Fanny?
What?
If you're exhausted because you're vegan, you can't hold it up for very long, can you?
Could a meat eater please help us so I can read it?
No, it's nice.
That lovely glittery pink vagina.
I don't know what they look like in real life, so I can't tell you if it's any good.
Is it an accurate rendition of a vagina?
Tell me, it's been a, I think I have to turn it.
You know, you know, you get so you get, oh, I see.
You see, you get so confused when you're vegetarian and vegan, you start to lose sense of direction.
You see, they've done it, and then it's sort of fallen sideways, and then they didn't notice, and they wrote the words on anyway.
That's so rude.
She says it's a self-portrait.
Very, very rude.
You don't catch me saying things like that, being offensive in that way.
You know, it's a bit of a lackluster effort, ladies, isn't it?
Never mind.
Oh, God.
Okay, let's get back to it.
Hello, what does this say?
Oh, in English as fuck.
Well, thank you.
Milo hates everyone, including himself.
I think we all know that's not true.
Many people I admire.
Darth Vader.
Skeletor.
Margaret Thatcher.
This one, I think, is pretty brave.
And I'll tell you why.
And then you can have the mic back on.
Oh, thank you very much.
Sorry.
So you flew me over here.
You want me to talk about that?
I did, yeah.
Sorry, go ahead.
In America you can normally find a hearing to respond.
Although last week I was banned from the evil empire conglomerate, leaving me with about one social network left.
You can normally find someone to print your response to things.
But over here you can, in the course of an interview or a long YouTube live stream, crack a joke or make a remark.
Was what he said about that labor woman especially hysterical?
Not really.
Was it tasteless?
Mildly, not in a way that bothered me.
But for this to trigger a sort of campaign of hate where every comment he ever makes is used as evidence that he's some sort of morally reprehensible monster, contrasted with the reality of who he really is, isn't just funny, but it's scary.
And it's especially scary to me that the founder of this party now cannot see, has sort of signed up, you know, with the establishment, effectively, wants to become the opposition party of the establishment rather than the mischievous insurgent that this party was always supposed to be.
Well, this is now the face of mischief and insurgency.
And UKIP is now fighting two parallel wars, both essential to the security and success and future of this country.
One of them is Brexit, which is a given.
But the other one is your right to be, do, and say whatever the fuck you want without getting arrested because you called a police horse gay.
Or because you taught your dog to do a salute from a dark period in history.
Or any other totally harmless bit of tomfoolery.
And people will say, oh, well, you know, he might have got arrested, but they dropped the case.
They only drop these cases when sufficient publicity is paid to them.
And we did a live stream the other day.
I hope you look it up because it was a good conversation.
He's completely wrong about plastic bags.
Completely wrong about plastic bags.
I don't want the government interfering in what manifesto.
Well, UKIP is completely wrong about plastic bags.
Sorry.
Everything else is good.
I read the whole thing.
Everything else is good.
Plastic bags, not so much.
But I hope you'll look up that conversation that we had in which he told me, I think the number was 1,500.
1,500 people in 2017 arrested for mean words on the internet.
And it's not an exaggeration to say that's literally any of us anytime in jail.
And you heard about four or five of those cases.
And because the police were so embarrassed by the publicity, those four or five cases were either dropped or ultimately failed.
But that leaves 1,445 people who either served custodial sentences or were fined.
And that doesn't mean that they tell you how much you owe.
That means the government reaches into your bank account and takes whatever money out that it thinks you owe them because you cracked a joke on the internet.
This is 1,445 people who had convictions from mean words on the internet.
That is insane and terrifying.
And that's why I'm here supporting him.
And that's why you should support him too.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Milo.
I really appreciate that.
So I would like to talk to some of our protesters because I really want to know what's going on in their heads.
Does anyone think they might be able to ask them if they'd like to come over and have a chat?
Yeah, sir, if you would be so kind, I'd really appreciate it.
None of which requires government intervention, which is what he wants.
Well, I don't want it.
I think it's necessary evil, frankly.
But it's not necessary, it's just evil.
Well, no, no, I think it isn't necessary evil, but I find it interesting how you both agree on the end goal that it would be better to have plastics out of the environment.
Well, actually, I discovered that we agree on everything.
It's you that we don't agree with.
It's okay.
Because we don't feel it necessary for the iron boot, the steel toe cap of the government to crush innovation and private enterprise and consumer freedom.
It sounds in fact as though we agree perfectly well.
Yes.
But the point is, you want personal responsibility in regard to choosing something other than a plastic bag.
Well, I don't need people to be personally responsible.
If you want to effect this kind of change, you make it more profitable for a private enterprise to pick the environmental option.
That's exactly what has happened in many places, in many other industries, many things.
You make it more of a headache for them to do the opposite.
Well, the perfect example of this is Apple.
Apple, while marketing to rich left-wingers, never gave a stuff about the environment until they were forced into it by Greenpeace.
And then they started using sustainable materials and their monitors and their microchips.
Did not require government legislation yet.
Because Apple is one of the biggest companies in the world, had a colossal difference to the environment, and that's how to do it.
Well, I'm not in disagreement with you.
I don't see it.
Well, you are because you want the government to ban plastic bags.
I don't.
I want the government to get out the way.
And if you care about it, go tell the chief executive of Marks and Spencer's.
I appreciate your position on that.
Right.
But the thing that it does is actually gives you a lot of things.
We will have many more streaming streams until he agrees that I'm right.
I will never let it go.
Just a conversation.
But I really, honestly, I really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Cheers.
I would listen to the job.
I love that.
You should take him with you.
Take him to Plymouth.
I really enjoyed that.
Take it over.
want to go to Plymouth?
Is it something specific about me that you'd like?
I'd really like to talk to one of our lovely feminists over there.
Um, do you?
Do you reckon it's safe for me to just wander over and ask them a question?
Sounds like violence to me.
Uh, well...
Would you like to come with me?
Asking fact-based questions.
I mean, it's.
We'll go.
No, we'll go together.
We'll go and ask them politely.
If you could make a space so John can just turn the camera and film.
Yeah.
Well, we're just asking for a diet.
So we go into the lion's den, you know?
There's to tread No, no, I appreciate that.
Don't do the clock.
I should stay up.
All rakers.
So did you learn this from the day you had?
That's a frustrated start, isn't it?
Why don't you come and tell me about how you frustrated me?
It's so interesting.
It's all good to see you.
No interest whatsoever.
You seem to be sending me a message right now.
You're a bigger and an idiot.
Everyone here says to fuck off collectively.
They don't seem to be supporting me.
So, if everyone is on my side and on your side, why don't we have a chance?
Yeah, really.
I am a discord as well, yeah.
I'm enjoying it.
Why are you here?
Have you not had enough time over there?
Well, it's just for him to talk to you.
You seem to want my attention.
I don't want your attention.
I want these people.
You can have that by talking to her.
I mean, you're getting it right now by talking to her.
You're the one who's here.
I didn't come to you.
See you later.
Have a nice evening.
Is there any chance that we can talk about your science?
Antonia is European.
Antonio?
Antonina is from Europe.
That's all.
She just called her Antonio.
They missed you out.
Yeah, thank you.
No, you're right.
Yeah, sorry, soft.
I don't mean to use it to answer.
I've met one thing.
So, you're from Europe?
How do you feel about Brexit?
Do you not believe that nations should have their own self-defenders?
John Claude Junkers, the man for the job?
Hello.
John Claude Junker, how's yourself?
Yeah.
Buffy Beer Hoster.
Have you seen the muralisation for Africa?
He's been talking about an African union with Europe.
Is that a good idea?
Good idea.
Good talk.
Excuse me.
Can I talk to you on the side?
I can't say why you think that you come here and put the sign up.
Well, you have to do it and put the sign up for it.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought we were having a private conversation.
Oh, we're being a little difficult, but you're friends.
Privately have a lot of people.
How come Justin is a little bit more than that?
I'm more than a conversation.
But I'm not next to with.
Well, that's fine.
I'm more around.
What should we call them?
The entourage.
Entourage is a little worse.
Yeah, we can give a little following example.
Are there any other protesters or is it just you four?
It's not quantity, it's quality.
I'm not, I'm not.
No, no, I'm not trying to disparage you.
I'm actually looking to have a dialogue with someone.
I want you to explain to me why I'm wrong.
Why are you wrong to threaten to break just?
I never threatened to rape anyone.
Yeah, but I didn't.
Otherwise the police would arrest me and I'm arrested and I've got a criminal record.
So you seem to have some state news.
Yeah, but they haven't contacted me, so I think that they're just modifying Jess on that one.
But you can think what you want.
There is no private thinking what you want.
What you say is entirely different.
Right, so you're not for free speech?
Sorry?
You're not for free speech.
Not if it cites hatred, misogyny, and sexual violence.
And who gets to decide what misogyny is?
Who will be the censor?
I thought so, thank you.
So no other feminist protesters?
We're not feminists.
Not like women.
I'm sorry?
We're not feminists, they're women.
Oh, right, okay.
No other women who are opposed to me?
I'd love to talk to someone and just literally have a dialogue so we can explain and understand each other.
We can, but not to that.
Sorry, I'm not.
Sorry?
Oh, well, where are we?
Go and talk to other people out there.
Not to you.
No.
Oh, that's our dialogue.
It's not worth talking to.
I think you're just intimidating these young ladies.
Thank you.
That's what I'm sorry, Dewey.
How am I intimidating?
Why are you here?
You can talk to people.
You've got an agenda and you're agenda.
Why don't you go and deal with your agenda?
These ladies here have got a valid poem.
I don't see what's wrong with coming up and asking about that.
I mean, they haven't run away or anything.
I don't think they are.
I mean, I think, honestly, I think you're giving them too little private.
Well, I just spoke to one of your representatives.
You categorise these young ladies as far left.
I don't know whether they're far left.
Well, the guy here who's holding your planet categorise them as young ladies who are not far left.
Well, I'm sorry, I don't know the far left because they're not talking.
I'd love to explain.
No, you need to talk to your representatives.
I don't have any representatives actually.
I have quite a few people around.
I have to watch for the chair.
But anyway, I've been a bit more.
We're intimidating the ladies so far.
I'm only one form of mix.
Debate is violence.
Yes, debate is a form of violence.
Too proud to hold your brolly.
Well, while you're figuring out how to use a microphone, I'll just say, aside from his needless provocation and attention seeking, there are people who could be helped and about whom Jess Phillips was ignorant, scoffing at things that affect men.
Him?
Not you.
No, no, no, me, me.
Don't worry.
I was about to compliment you.
Scoffing at men's issues.
Well, the kinds of people that she's talking about are there.
And it's not.
He's the way you hear about it, but he's the person that could be helped.
If female Labour MPs were a little bit more reluctant to scoff over things that affect half a country.
And honestly, I really didn't want to have to be the one who brought this to your attention in this way.
I mean, Philip Davies was doing as good a job as it was possible for him to do.
He was just finding himself in a position where his hands were tied by Jess Phillips and her cadre of feminists in Parliament.
Sometimes it takes a person like me to kind of break that barrier.
It's literally the worst thing I can think of being tied up by Jess Phillips.
Well, yeah.
Look, I'm actually not here to insult her today.
His hands were tied by Jess Phillips.
I just felt a shudder go down me.
It might just be the rain, but I felt a cold finger down my spine.
But yes, so the point is we can't raise these issues because there are certain people who are trying to block them.
And unfortunately, sometimes you have to be offensive to get these things on the table in the first place.
And that's the reason that this whole fur has been going on.
But right, Milo, would you mind talking to people for about 20 minutes while I speak to the BBC?
I'm getting absolutely defamed again.
I'm not very good with the crowd.
Oh, I'm not.
You're not very good at lying.
That's not.
I'm not.
I get caught out every time.
I'll leave you to it.
Fine, fine.
Why don't we have a conversation with someone new?
He's good, isn't he?
Isn't he good?
I thought it was just like mentally unhinged people like me who would throw themselves out in public and say ridiculous things, but isn't he great?
He's just like a normal, reasonable person with a wife and kids.
I don't know what time that is.
All right, who wants to come and talk to me?
You don't have to be hostile.
You can be nice if you want, as long as you're not fawning.
All right, come on.
I kind of want to crash his BBC interview.
I wanted to get a picture with the hot one, the little Italian one.
No, because you know we're not feminists.
I'm like, you could have fooled me, except the one on the end who's been roped into it by her friends.
You can tell, you know, can't you?
Because she doesn't really have anything to say and she's not really sure what to do.
She's like the token hoodie in the feminist protest.
There's always one who's kind of like, what are you doing there?
You've obviously got a boyfriend.
Like, what on earth do you need feminism for?
So I want a picture with her because she's got the Milo sign.
No, it's a debate's harassment.
We can't do it.
Anybody else would like the floor for a bit?
What are your voting priorities?
What are the three things you care about?
Legalization.
No, I'm kidding.
The fade and the ponytail.
Yeah, I'm a barber, so that's why.
Oh, you are?
Oh, okay.
Well, maybe that's it, not drugs.
What do you think?
Am I doing okay?
It's lovely, but I could do a few extra bits here and there.
Really?
Do I need-what would you change about my hair?
Well, number one, I'd definitely give you a fade.
I love that you've gone blonde again.
I'm a massive fan of that.
I mean, dark was nice, but blonde is better.
It is good.
So do you think I should go a bit shorter on the sides?
If you could, yeah.
Fine, fine.
All right.
Well, maybe afterwards.
Maybe after a few drinks in weather spoons, we can do that.
Yeah, no, that's good.
I can manage to at once, you know.
Apparently, the interview's at 3.30, and I really wanted to stand under an umbrella to get it.
Oh, and you got so wet.
Yes, I know.
I didn't come to you.
Were you just standing there?
Just sort of like, where's the BBC?
No, no, no, no, no.
No.
Look, you're so...
Oh, don't come near me.
You're joking.
No.
I've got satin lapels.
You stay away.
You stay away.
I'm going to interview you.
Okay, yeah, go ahead.
All right, fine.
Good.
Too little too late to save free speech in Britain, or is this just the beginning of a wave that will lead to a Trump-like event?
Well, I don't know about a Trump-like event, but hopefully this is the beginning of people understanding that free speech is actually something we've lost in this country and we need to really bring back.
And that starts by repealing section 127 of the 2003 Communications Act.
Explain to people what that is if they don't know.
For anyone who's not going to be able to do that, you seem to know.
I'm guessing a few people don't know.
I don't know what it is because I haven't been here.
That's the part of the and the only part of the law that criminalizes gross offence.
Oh, I should leave.
Yes.
I should get on a plane now.
Well, it's over a public network.
Oh, well, I'm banned from them all, so I'm alright.
Well, exactly, so you're safe.
Oh, good.
But I did give an interview to Cornwall Live.
Oh, no.
Maybe that'll get me in trouble.
No, I don't know if it's Cornwall Live.
But yeah, but that's what we really need to do if we want to preserve free speech in this country, or bring it back even.
Okay, and do you worry that given after 30 years maybe of constant trickle-down regulation of, you know, oh, well, stop me saying this, we'll stop you doing this, the sort of stuff your plastic bag law would bring in, you know, after this sort of constant, constant little encroachment from the edges upon people's freedoms, that now this kind of stuff is seen as a sort of abstract American debate that's only going to capture the imagination of a small slice of people.
Well, I mean, I really hope that.
So most people quite like following rules, don't they?
You know, when like Tesco bans, you know, kids' sugar drinks from the shelves, people in this country seem to applaud it instead of be horrified, which I can't understand.
There is certainly a kind of loud, motherly element that is very, very much in applause of having the way that you live your life dictated to you.
And they think that they should be the ones who tell you how to do it.
But hopefully there is a sort of libertarian streak that is latent in the British public and wants to be able to have the right to say what they like without being criminalised for it.
There is a long tradition of iconoclasm and mischief and defiance in the British national character.
So you could be right about that.
But, you know, we're all fairly comfortable defying our fathers, but we have a lot more reticence about defying our mothers.
Do you think the British state has gone from a paternalistic kind of Tory consensus to a maternalistic centre-left state that people just don't feel able to disobey because everything's coached in the everything is phrased as though it's all about just being a bit nicer to people and what's the big deal?
How dare, you know, what kind of a monster would go around telling rape jokes anyway?
We've switched, haven't we, from the sort of hands-off, stern fatherliness of a Tory state to a more interfering, motherly state?
Yeah, it's the kind of micromanaging.
It's the kind of personality that I think you guys are fucking troopers, I guess.
Yeah, you can't.
Some of you should cluster under here if you're going to say.
And not only that, the protesters are still there, but they're actually the perfect example of what you're talking about, Milo.
It's the kind of stern, motherly disapproval of what I've done on the internet, and I am some disobedient son that they now need to look down their nose personally.
There was a mum over there.
Oh, yeah, someone was a little bit more.
And no, I was worried about you because she was looking very disapproving, and I thought, you know, we've all had that look.
We've all seen that look.
But that's the feeling I get now from European governments.
It's like, why did you have to go and do that?
Now you knew it was wrong, didn't you?
You're not going to do it again, or I'm going to take away your pocket money.
You just had your pocket money taken away, didn't you?
That's exactly what they're trying to do.
It's the kind of outlawing of defiance, I think, is the problem.
The right to be wrong, I think, is something we really need to think about because you should have the freedom to break the rules.
You will suffer the consequences of breaking the rules, of course.
But I think that people like our protesters over there would have it so you had no freedom to break their rules.
I think that's true.
I think by and large, they don't just want to make a noise about what you've your alleged infraction, but they also want there to be serious and ideally custodial consequences.
Oh, undoubtedly.
But my worry for your candidacy is that too many of the British people are happy to nod along with that, and not enough of them will hear that and say, wait, what?
That's my big kind of overarching worry.
It's certainly an overarching worry of mine as well, but we are where we are, and we have to press on with what we have.
So hopefully, the British people will understand that there is a reason that tyranny should be resisted in all guises.
Even if it's a particularly matronly way, tyranny is tyranny and it has to be resisted.
Is there something about offensive free speech and offensive statements that mean that you should protect them especially or that you should protect them but not as much?
I mean, no one's out protesting your right to say you don't like Beyoncé, although some people would find that very shocking.
Some people actually probably would.
Some people don't find that very shocking.
I don't like Beyoncé.
I just like to make clear.
I find nothing of artistic value in Beyoncé.
Some people will find that shocking, but not many people.
Milo gets deplatformed from his last social media.
YouTube.
That's enough for YouTube.
That's it.
That's the last straw.
But you're absolutely right.
And this is something that John Stuart Mill identified in On Liberty.
It's not the inoffensive speech that you're talking about.
See how he's ticking him up to show off.
That's how good an interviewer I am.
But no, but it genuinely.
Who is John Stuart Mill?
Jon Stuart Mill is an English utilitarian.
He's a famous thinker.
Absolutely instrumental in developing liberalism as we understand it.
But didn't John Stuart Mill advocate for free speech primarily for the elites?
Wasn't he really in On Liberty talking just for the benefit of the educated political class?
I think that he's speaking in broad enough terms that you don't have to classify it that way.
Now, being a man of his time in the 19th century, he probably was.
But the principles are the same.
It's the same as like slave-owning Englishmen saying, well, all men are created equal while they still own slaves.
They may well have been products of flawed products.
And we don't accept that these are the same.
Of course.
But that's the point.
The principles themselves contained within also contain the end of slavery.
Because if you do take as an axiom, all men are created equal, well, as soon as you accept the people.
Let's get off that.
No, but it's an important thing.
As soon as you accept that the people that you have actually enslaved are also people, then what's your excuse for not treating them the same?
Right.
Well, I mean, the real reason that this all comes to an end is the conception of each individual life as having innate.
As having innate value, which is an innovation of Christianity, ultimately.
This is what Christianity brought to the West.
Yes.
Where you don't have Christianity in the Middle East, you don't have that.
Or in any other place, frankly.
True.
So answer the question about really offensive speech, whether it is.
It's the only speech worth protecting.
It's the only speech that needs protecting.
Inoffensive speech is inoffensive.
Nobody complains about it.
There's no need to protect it because no one's attacking it.
It's only offensive speech or radical ideas.
These things must be heard and given a fair hearing.
Why?
Because we might learn something from it.
Because if the alternative is the people who are promoting these ideas and this speech, if they're not heard, they will feel oppressed.
They will feel that they have no other options and they will radicalize.
And that's what we're seeing, frankly, with the Christchurch shooter and the copycats who have now come along with their own manifestos, their own shot at glory and going and shooting up a mosque or a synagogue or whatever it is.
I want these things to stop.
And the way to make them stop is to have a dialogue with the people that you find the most uncomfortable, whether you like it or not.
You don't have to agree with them.
You just have to listen to them.
Congratulations, those were the right answers.
These are my sincere convictions.
And you know, something I wanted you to say, but I didn't want to run the risk of being accused of putting digits up your rear again.
Oh, well, thank you.
I was doing a really bad job.
You should get the union.
You were fine.
Something I wanted you to say earlier is that to left-wing protesters, you're talking about offensive speech.
well offensive speech has historically been an engine of progressive progress i mean offensive free speech is is how you get suffrage women's suffrage gay rights you know all this because you don't get this by sort of you know being nice polite reasonable you're No, you like you.
And that is exactly the sort of thing.
The environmental lobby knows this.
Look at Greenpeace.
Look at what's that?
Who are the fur people?
Peter?
Now, see, Peter's been overtaken by the internet because it's very difficult to shock people now that you can find anything.
It's very disappointing.
No, Peter's, you know, it used to be really shocking to go and throw paint on celebrities, but given what you can access on the internet within a couple of minutes, Peter's kind of had the wind blown out of it.
They don't know how to shock people anymore.
They're going to have to come out for, you know, like they're in favor of live skinning of seals or something to get attention again.
But they understood, like Greenpeace understood, you know, buying tankers and all the rest of it, this speech on the margins of acceptability has to be something that's defended by principled people who don't necessarily agree with what's being said.
Yes.
In large part because it's an engine of progressive progress.
It is a tool of people who would ordinarily be on the other side of politics from us.
People who are constantly whining and blabbing on about equality, diversity, blah, blah, blah.
At their most fundamental, we agree with most of those principles in most of the ways that they were originally intended.
Of course.
But it was offensive free speech that achieved rights for all those groups in the first place.
Yes, I mean, like, and not just speech itself, but any kind of expression.
I mean, at this point, they'd block Rosa Parks, wouldn't they?
They would.
I mean, Feemen still does the, you know, like, naked in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, but they always strike me as a sort of kind of quaint, cute 90s holdover.
It's like how.
It's pretty edgy that.
No, it's like how demonstrations and protests used to be.
You know, you used to get these like mental naked feminists, and now you just get these saddles.
Well, honestly, let's say.
No, they are.
They're hipsters with a token hottie.
And it's so depressing.
Let's give them their credit.
They're actually standing out in the rain.
Yes, but they looked like that when they left the house.
I spent time on this.
It's much braver for me to be out in this weather.
There could be holes in the brolly.
I haven't got time for a four-hour salon appointment in between all these terrible things you're making me do.
This blow dry has to last me a week.
Honestly, can I thank you all for standing out in the rain like this?
Yes, thank you.
Give yourselves a round of applause.
Because, yeah, Mother Nature is definitely disapproving of my jokes as well, I think.
And Mother Nature's voting Brexit party.
Let's talk about that.
Oh, sure.
Vile.
What?
Vile, says Uncle Nigel.
What was your response to that?
I learned all my jokes from you, Nige.
No, I mean, what happened to Nigel Farage, isn't it?
It's very depressing.
Yeah, I think it's his Tory colours showing through.
But it's also that he's in London and he's part of the politically correct bubble.
I think he is now.
Oh, he, I mean, isn't it weird how for like the last 10, 15 years, Nigel Farage has been a racist, xenophobic, far-right, Islamophobic, all the names under the sun.
And now they have someone that he's a useful person to antagonise.
Suddenly, he's on the morning couches.
Yes, and oh, isn't the Brexit party wonderful?
Isn't it distinguished?
It's like, well, I mean, I suppose if you.
You started up four weeks ago and you still won't tell us whose money it is.
Yes.
And no party members, just subscribers.
Very, very party politics.
So how does it make you feel to be the object of ire from not just both, but every side of the political what would we say?
The entire political kaleidoscope.
You know, you look through it, you turn it upside down, everyone hates you.
How does it make you feel?
Honestly, I think that means that I'm doing something right.
Welcome to my world.
It's great, isn't it?
I'm not them, and I know where I stand.
I think that this is the sort of thing that's only possible if you approach what you're doing with sincere moral conviction, with sensibly thought-out principles, and actual end goal in mind.
Because we are actually threatening the sort of a particular kind of moral order in this country.
We are actually saying, look, actions mean more than words.
You know, we are not the side that attacks people, but we are the side who offends people.
They are the side that won't offend anyone, but they are a side that will attack people.
Well, they offend me, but I take you making it.
Well, no, I mean, you're playing the same role in politics that Farage was 15 years ago, right?
On a different field.
Political correctness.
Right.
And that's where we are.
This is a much bigger battle than getting this country to vote to leave Europe.
Yes, it is.
Much bigger function.
But I do think there's a deep undercurrent of resentment against political correctness because I really do believe what I agree with George Carlin completely.
It is fascism parading as manners.
Absolutely.
That's absolutely what it is.
But my objection to your plastic bags argument.
Oh, God, do we have to talk about plastic bags?
You do, because it's such a useful proxy for everything you're wrong about.
Oh, go on.
So the problem with the plastic bag argument is it is that little concession that leads to a second one, that leads to a third one, and then suddenly, two generations on, you can't say anything.
It depends on what the limiting principle is.
And this has been the problem with free speech.
The limiting principle has to be that jokes are acceptable.
This is a principle that we have to hold to in the face of everything.
Because if jokes are no longer acceptable, then any kind of free speech that we had left, anything remaining, is gone.
And that's what I'm saying.
Let me ask you a serious question then.
So there have been people in the US who have tried to be slippery with this.
And I'm thinking of Jon Stewart and maybe Bill Maher.
People who will play cultural commentator and who command the attention of millions.
I mean, Jon Stewart was the thing college kids wished on.
Right, under George Bush, that was what you watched if you were young and not like a weirdo.
And these people like to play fast and loose with their job, right?
On the one hand, they exert the influence of cultural commentators, but then when they get called up on something, they say, oh, I'm just a comedian.
How are you different?
Well, I stand by what I say.
You know, I mean, if something is a joke, and I think that in context it's obviously a joke, then I think it's unfair to challenge someone on it.
I mean, if it was a joke, you either find it funny or you don't.
But I also do make a lot of sensible political commentary, I think.
And I stand by the things that I've said, and I'm happy to be challenged on them.
I think I have reasoned positions on why I hold the positions that I hold.
Unlike Jon Stewart, I'm not just going to go, oh, I'm a comedian.
I don't answer difficult questions.
I do answer difficult questions.
That was an even better answer than I thought you'd give.
Congratulations.
That was quite a difficult question.
I wasn't expecting him to answer it that well.
Well, I was prepared for it because I was just as frustrated as everyone else with Jon Stewart going, well, I'm just a comedian.
It's like, okay, but you do political commentary, you know, satire with the comedy that you do.
And it's pointed.
And it's not even just that, but it's, I mean, I don't know if I, I don't know if I buy this argument.
I'm just thinking out loud.
But they would say, for instance, the left being the progressive left would say, well, it's not just your intention, it's your consequences, it's the effect you have.
So if you're a comedian, that has an enormous effect on politics and culture.
The effect, the action of your words is important, therefore you should modify what you say.
Therefore, you bear some responsibility.
So even if he was solely a comedian, yet people were, but yet he told jokes in a particular direction.
If everything that ever came out of his mouth was a one-liner, and that's all he ever did, he still shouldn't just be able to say, I'm a comedian, whatever.
The things that he's saying, like, exactly.
I mean, there is pointed political commentary.
I mean, like, Frankie Boyle has a message, right?
He fucking hates Tories.
Absolutely.
You know, he hates communists.
Right.
So what I'm trying to get at is, is it or is it not, therefore, fair to hold him to account for jokes?
Because Frankie Boyle, for instance, says he does his comedy routine on stage.
doesn't give that many political interviews he normally gives i mean he talks a little bit about He does sometimes.
So would it be fair for me, for instance, as a conservative critic, to present jokes to him, given that they form part of a larger and consistent political narrative, and ask him to account for them?
Well, I think that the distinction to be made is, is it the quality of the joke, or is it the political message contained therein?
And I think that anyone who wants to give a charitable approximation of what's being said as the sort of undertone of the joke, I think anyone can just extract the actual political argument that's being made as an implication alongside the joke and address that.
And that's totally fair.
Yeah, so you should ask him about his politics, which you have gleaned from his humour.
Exactly.
But you shouldn't ask him to defend the fact that he jokes about racy subjects.
Of course.
That's very reasonable.
That's very reasonable.
I think it is.
I think I'd vote for you after all.
Well, thank you very much.
Sorry, he did bring me here to support him.
I just wasn't sure before today.
No, no, no, I mean, I don't literally vote for Frankie Boyle.
So I know, look, if you can win over the people that you ship in to support you, this is step one.
This is stage one.
You're going to go far.
You'll be all right.
You'll be all right.
But I really think there's something to it, because what you're doing is you're not addressing a political argument.
You're addressing your personal interpretation of how you feel about it.
And really, Frankie Boyle doesn't have to account to how you feel about his jokes.
If you don't like it, don't watch it.
But if he's making a political commentary, if he's forming an argument, even if indirectly through satire, you can talk to him about that.
If somebody is a fan of Frankie Boyle and commits a violent act, let's say for the sake of silly example, this is a silly hypothetical.
But let's say they shoot somebody.
And when asked, say, Frankie Boyle has been the biggest influence on my life.
He has shown me that Tories are evil and I went out and I shot somebody because I listened to Frankie Boyle.
Is Frankie Boyle bear any responsibility?
No.
Should Frankie Boyle watch the jokes he makes in future?
No.
How do you, how do you...
The responsibility for that was on the individual.
How do you prevent those things happening in future?
Well, I'm not sure you can prevent people from being maniacs, and that's how I would describe it.
These are all very good answers.
I hope you're listening.
Well, I think this is true.
I think the sort of people who are primed to do that, the people who are, frankly, trapped in a kind of echo chamber, they might have some mental problems themselves.
Think they'd find any old reason.
Exactly.
I think they want to act out, and if it's not him, it'd be something else.
Exactly.
And if it wasn't guns, they'd use a truck.
Or a knife or whatever.
This is why I don't go on about the Young Turks, because they've actually inspired, allegedly, at least two mass shooters at this point who are fans of their channel.
Elliot Roger was also a fan of their channel.
And it's not their fault that these people do this.
When you've got a large media presence, the idea that someone out there who's a lunatic isn't watching it is.
I mean, I have wanted to shoot people listening to the Young Turks.
I think it's a quite normal reaction to that channel.
Well, since I'll be uploading this to YouTube, I can't make a comment.
And I should probably think of poor Gerard's stress levels as well before I do it.
No, don't go there.
Don't do it.
Well, I'll say it for us all.
But yeah, so, but anyway, yes.
Yeah, no, it's not their fault.
When you've got a large audience, a lot of people listen to you, and a few of those people are going to be lunatics.
And if you're really unlucky, one or two of those people will do terrible things.
Yes, and I agree you don't bear responsibility for that.
Who are your role models?
Right, yeah.
Oh, well, I would say Christopher Hinchens, George Carlin.
It used to be people like Ricky Gervais and Jimmy Carr and David Bediel and Frankie Boyle, but they seem to have shown themselves to be weak, spineless, and incapable of defending their own craft.
Yes, I think that's fair.
That's true.
All atheists.
Well, I'm an atheist as well.
Oh, you are, aren't you?
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Then I'm out again.
No, no, I'm sorry.
I'm out.
You can vote for Anne Whittakham if you like.
Would you, would you.
She's the alternative.
I'd vote for her for something.
I was.
She's alright.
She's just.
I'm a celebrity because I would be one of the people at home phoning to make her eat the bug.
She's just really funny.
She's really anti-gay.
She'd convert you.
Would she?
Yes.
I don't have a moral problem with conversion therapy.
I just wish it worked.
The only issue I have with it is it's ineffective.
No, no, if it worked, I would have had it done by now.
Are you kidding me?
Imagine how beautiful my children would be.
If it worked the other way, I'd have done it by now, too.
Oh, yeah.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, they're so big.
How could you?
Can I say that?
Well, I think it's a bit late now, isn't it?
Well, she won't know unless I clarify.
Let's just change the topic.
Okay.
fine uh are you going to are you okay so so you're you're you're I'm going to have the BBC interview very shortly.
Let's go and see the DVDs.
So if there are any, anyone, yeah, in fact, we'd probably better go now, actually.
Oh, it's nearly time.
Where is it?
It's about 10-15 minutes walk away, so.
Well, should we all go?
I think we should all go.
No, no, I prefer if you all stayed here, actually.
But if you could talk to a couple of people.
You're not the boss of me.
I know I'm not, but I would.
You're not the boss of any of us.
I know, I'm asking.
I think we should go see the BBC, don't you?
No, it's all right.
Okay, all right.
But if you could.
They'll write it out.
They'll say an armed, violent mob descended on BBC Southwest.
They'll accidentally use pictures from some kind of uprising in Raqqa.
What?
Using umbrellas is bad.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
They'll say all manner of things.
I'll leave you with the microphone.
And if you'd like to just interview a few other people, talk to them, see what they're up to, see what their concerns are.
If you could be still.
You're such a good friend to me.
Thank you.
One Brazilian steakhouse dinner.
My God, and now he thinks he's...
No, yeah.
No, you didn't.
You left 20 quid on the table and fucked off.
And by the way, with Tip, you owe me £4.20.
£4.20.
Another reason you don't have my vote.
I might vote.
Okay, who else would like to speak?
Alright, anybody else would like to speak at length?
The longer the better, as long as you're interesting.
Yes, the well-dressed young man.
Talk us through your outfit.
Okay, so I want you to face them because I can tell from the audience some people need a lot of help dressing.
So come and stand back here.
Some of you need some real, you know.
Some of you need a gay best friend.
Let me put it like that.
Alright, so talk us through your outfit.
I want to know, don't compliment me.
I know it's, look, I know it's a natural instinct, but would anybody like to be assessed by our fashion expert?
Please come one and a half.
We will make accommodations for the fact that it's raining.
You come and line up here.
If you'd like to be assessed by our fashion expert, he's going to obsess you.
He is.
Excellent, excellent.
Now, he's going to assess your dress sense, and I'm going to assess your politics, okay?
So I will ask you some test questions.
Oh, sorry, sorry, yes.
I will ask you some questions, and if you get them wrong, you get rejected.
You get ejected out.
And if you get them right, you say, and he will give a little assessment of your ensemble.
Don't expect any high scores here, people.
Don't expect any high scores.
Look, look, we're really, you know, our net is dragging the bottom of the lake.
All right, come over, come over, come over, come over.
You don't get points for facial hair.
All right.
Let's start with you.
How are you feeling about your ensemble today?
You feeling confident?
I'm like a sponge that hasn't been wrong out.
I feel okay.
I'm kind of a little bit worried that you want us kind of screwing up my hair gel routine by the way.
Yeah, no, I know I see.
Okay, okay, fine, fine, fine.
And oh, oh.
Sorry.
Yes, okay, fine, fine.
And how would you describe your personal style in three words?
Quite wet.
Slightly worried that that's a lot more than three.
So your answer is quite wet, slightly.
Okay.
How would you describe your style in three words?
Simple, sweet and simple.
That's four words.
And you?
Doctor Who lookalike?
Witch doctor?
Yeah, no, that is what.
Yeah, which doctor?
Which doctor?
All of them.
But you don't look like any of them.
No way, I left my blazer at home.
Okay.
Perhaps he's the next one.
We don't know about him.
How many reincarnations does he have left?
What am I looking at you for?
I prefer Star Trek, frankly.
Oh, I didn't think you'd own a television.
I don't.
Well, I don't.
I thought you.
No, no, no, no.
I thought he would reluctantly have purchased a wireless.
Well, my mother and father would never bought them until me and my brother by sort of seven years old.
They objected to all things technological.
No, I can't.
We wouldn't have any of it.
But now Star Trek.
I rather like Star Trek.
Gosh, put him on the spot at Tan.
That's surprising.
That's surprising.
You don't watch Bright's head revisited or anything?
You know, I can sort of take those and that sort of stuff and leave it, but I really want Star Trek right now.
So do you watch period dramas and complain about the inconsistencies and inaccuracies?
Completely.
Did you watch Downton just get furious because he's wearing the wrong kind of shirt?
They do.
Honestly, it's abominable.
I can't watch any lawyer TV shows because they always button up all the buttons wrong.
They've got ugly ties that are far too wide or far too slim for the lapels if they sort of match.
Which is because they're just a curse.
It's because they're dressed by ladies.
It is.
You see, they're dressed by people who don't actually wear suits.
It makes me mad too.
All right.
And.
Yes.
Well, let's have the camera get a good time.
No, no, no, no, no, no, just, just, yes.
Okay, how would you describe your style?
Culturally insensitive, I think.
Yeah, no, no, no.
I'm a racist.
I hate Asian people.
Well, that's why I got this.
Okay.
Cultural appropriation.
Cultural appropriation, because you don't like Asians.
Obviously.
I think it's best left unsaid.
Yeah, yeah.
Alright.
Okay, so one political question each, and he's going to rate you, and the winner wins absolutely nothing.
Okay.
You.
The government should ban plastic bags, true or false.
Only if it's more green than the other bags, you know?
No, no, no.
Off you go.
Off you go.
Same question to you.
You know, I'm a man of principle.
Yes.
Off you go.
You.
No.
Good, you can stay.
Yeah.
Okay, fine.
With two people remaining.
Well, I think if a plastic bag would go much nicer than the hat, I think.
So maybe they shouldn't stay banned.
In your case, they should be compulsory.
Yes, as I say.
Not just plastic bags, but great big bin liners.
Right.
Okay.
You only have two people left.
Now, you've got to give him some credit.
The shoes and the t-shirt go to the bottom.
It's white on the laces and white on the shirt.
A little bit of red there.
It's got a little splash of colour.
The shoes do go terribly well, but I don't know what the hat's doing, but, you know, causing great offense.
We allow people a little misstep now and again.
And this one, everything looks of a style.
There's certainly coherent.
There's a theme.
It's coherent.
I don't know if I should say what the theme.
I think the theme is.
No, you shouldn't say what the theme is.
No, no, no, no.
But it's coherent.
But it is certainly coherent.
Alright, so marks out of 10 for this album.
He's good at layering.
I can give him that.
Marks out of 10.
Oh, gosh.
Would 10 be this?
Because, I mean, I imagine it would be a good idea.
Well, no, because then you're just going to be giving like naught points out all day.
Marlowe, we've only known each other for about 10 minutes, but we're in there too well.
No, no, no, no.
Let's say that.
Well, let's put the bar low, and let's say that 10 is God, if you absolutely have to.
Because that's about the best that anyone here is going to score from you.
Oh, yes.
So 10 being the best, if you absolutely have to, and zero being, you know, you're first over the wall.
Along with the vegans and the cyclists.
Yes, well.
Right.
Well, at least none of them are in Lycra.
You better have a body.
If you're going to wear Lycra, you better have a body.
Okay, marks out of ten.
Considering our scale.
It's seven and a half, I suppose.
It's not bad.
There's an interesting hat.
He's got to go through his layers.
That's just a few small percentage points below contempt.
That's great.
I'd say so.
Okay, so, and this person?
Yes, okay.
Well, this is either a terribly high scorer or a terribly low scorer.
You see, it's growing on me.
No, like a fungus.
Exactly.
There are parts.
I expect you're familiar with that.
There are parts of Italy that he'd go very well in.
It's very sort of toner.
He starts falling off when he's 15 and just never bother to fix it and whatever.
Yeah, no, I can see that.
Spiritatora, if anyone doesn't know, essentially is that you look like you haven't put any effort in, like you've just sort of flung it all on.
There's a bit of the light you're going for.
He does.
No, no, no.
Exactly.
This is.
Well, see, this is.
You tried to wet like that.
Yeah.
Zero.
No, no, if you didn't.
But he tried to do it.
So he's basically saying that the key to good style is to look effortless.
You know, that effortless sheet.
So if you hadn't tried, you would have scored really well.
But since you did, you're out.
I'm sorry.
Exactly.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
Oh, there's a piss.
Well, then, no, here's the weakest thing.
I was on that.
I came third.
Thank you very much.
I'll ask Master.
You win best outfit today, and you win absolutely nothing.
Unless you want a book or something?
No, I'd have to.
Fuck you too.
Thank you very much.
It's been a delight.
Thank you.
Something to brag about now.
Maybe.
Sorry, just a minute.
I'm going to show you all what a secret nerd I really am.
Counter-strike.
All right.
No.
Okay, good.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for sharing.
Anything you'd like to share with us?
No, I'm just a YouTuber, so I don't say much.
Well, what's your channel?
That could be your prize.
You can tell these 11 people where to find you on the internet.
The boy right here is called JC Kirk 2012.
If you're interested, I'll play a lot of Call of Duty and a lot of FIFA.
See, that was JC.
So you knew that was Counter-Strike, huh?
I had no idea.
I had no idea.
Of course, you did.
Stand to here, let's have a chat.
That we saw your lot off before.
My parents fought in the Second World War against people standing for this shit.
My lot.
Who's his lot?
Okay, let's be calm.
The far right.
Let's just.
Okay, can I will take us into identitarian politics, nationalism, and division.
They will take us into a situation where there is no trade but this extreme version that you were trying to bring by Brexit, by causing division and separation, by saying no deal is the best deal.
This is bullshit, and everybody who knows anything knows this.
And the fact is that every time this has happened in the past, in history, it leads to war.
It leads to repression of women and it leads to repression of gay people and minorities.
And it leads to war.
And this is what, a result of free trade going too mad, of globalization going too mad, we tried to hold it back.
The left tried to hold that back for long.
And the thing is, it didn't work because the police came and repressed us.
And this is why we now have a situation where people are so unhappy that they are turning in desperation to the modern incarnation of people like Mosley, the shame of this country.
So we now have people like you coming and speaking in our town.
And you are shameful and no, and I do not have any interest in listening to you.
You said we can say what we want, when we want, of course, and where we want.
I am speaking, and I am telling you, you are a creep, and you are not welcome in our Cornwall.
Goodbye.
You're in the minority there, mate.
Look, she gets points for wanting to talk at all.
She loses them all for.
It's not quite having a conversation, which is what I invited her to, having your say and running away.
But I think that to equate a gay, interracially married, half-Jewish guy with hours of YouTube videos saying white pride is not the answer, white nationalism is a bad thing.
I believe in people's values and not their skin colour with Oswald Mosley and the Nazis.
I think we all know which side of that was shameful.
Second time in its history, Germany's been ruled over by a diminutive autocrat with unfortunate facial hair who's making the fatherland inhospitable for Jews.
It's a work in progress.
Thank you very much, everybody.
Vote for him.
He's okay.
Oh, yeah, sure.
Well, he's not here.
They don't want a photo with me.
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