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Oct. 1, 1996 - Bill Cooper
02:03:42
Michele Moore, OKC
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Time Text
This is the Voice of Freedom.
I'm going to be talking about the voice of freedom.
Ladies and gentlemen, don't forget to stay tuned tonight, immediately following the Hour of the Time, for the debut on the worldwide Freedom Radio network of Quest for Health, with Michael Cottingham.
Light hour of the hour.
This is hour of the time.
Light hour for the earthlings.
You will see.
Don't worry about him.
You're not going to harm him.
You're going to harm him.
You're going to harm him.
You're not going to harm him.
You're not going to harm him.
Oh, I don't know anything.
Don't worry about him.
You're not going to harm him.
Oh, I'm going to harm him.
I'm going to harm him.
You're not going to harm him.
You're not going to harm him.
Don't worry about him.
I'm William Cooper and this is the Hour of the Time.
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, Oklahoma City, day one is here.
All 5,000 copies, and I lifted every single one of them yesterday, and I am sore from the top of my head to the tip of my toes.
We paid for indoor delivery, but the truck came with no rear loading ramp, no dollies, no men to unload the books, and seven pallets of 300 cartons, each one weighing 36 or 38 pounds.
each one weighing 36 or 38 pounds.
I don't remember the exact number.
So we hired two young men, gave them dollies, and I unloaded the truck and stacked them
on their dollies, and they took them inside the center and stacked them against the wall.
Thank you.
And now there's hardly any room to walk.
There are so many books occupying so much space.
It is a killer.
The cover will knock you flat when you see it.
It is the most impressive book that I have ever seen.
And I'm not saying that because we published it, ladies and gentlemen.
I'm saying it because it's the truth.
When you see it, you will be absolutely amazed.
When you read it, you will be angry.
And you will be finally awakened.
And you will begin to get a glimmer of what really happened in Oklahoma City on April the 19th, 1995.
But you won't really know everything until you've read all three volumes.
Volume 2, Oklahoma City, The Aftermath, is being written as we speak.
We have pinned the culprits to the wall.
We have the proof, ladies and gentlemen.
We know what happened in Oklahoma City.
We know who did it, and we know why.
And if we can live long enough to write all of it down and present it to the American public, I think there will be a great calling out of all of the scum and the scoundrels and the traitors that are attempting to build a new socialist, totalitarian world order.
upon the ashes of the United States of America.
Ladies and gentlemen, pay close attention tonight, because I have a very special guest here.
And for the first time in over two years, you're going to be able to call in and talk
to Michelle Marie Moore.
So, you're going to be able to call in and talk to her.
And you're going to be able to call in and talk to her.
Michelle, welcome back to the Hour of the Times.
Thank you, Bill.
Good evening.
Well, why don't you tell everybody out there about your book?
Well, first I want to say hello to my husband and my daughter because I know they're listening.
Hey guys, I'll be homesick.
Okay, now what did you ask me?
Tell everybody who are listening about your book.
It's here.
It's beautiful.
It's heavy to lift.
It weighs over two pounds each.
Yeah.
Each book weighs over two pounds.
Two pounds of facts, information, documentation, transcripts of interviews, eyewitness reports.
What else?
It's been a long time since I read.
There's a lot of stuff in there.
What's not in there is speculation and opinion and theory.
That's the only thing that's really absent from it.
As far as dealing with the events of the first day and the events that sprang from that first day, it's all there.
There's nothing missing.
And when we say nothing, we mean literally nothing.
It's encyclopedic in scope, no doubt about that, and very well indexed, so it'll be useful To the readers if they need to go back and find a particular item or a particular comment they'll be able to use the index to do that.
I was real happy about that.
What was your reaction when I told you that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had ordered three copies?
I thought I got a hoot.
I thought that was a real hoot.
I hope they pass them around.
They're not going to be too happy with this book are they?
No.
Probably not at all.
But you know, their money's just as green.
Buy three more, okay?
Yes, it is.
We need it to publish volume two.
Michelle, you know, we signed... By the way, we signed all the books today, ladies and gentlemen.
The paper trade, the hardcover collector's edition is not here yet.
It won't be here for quite a while because it's...
It's being professionally sewn and bound with a real wonderful quality.
This whole book is probably the best quality book that you've ever purchased in your life unless you've really spent a tremendous sum of money for a real collector's letter bound edition of some fantastic book.
Next to that, you can't get better than the collector's volume, the hardbound volume of Oklahoma City Day One, as to quality and beauty.
It's just going to, it's going to please you so much, folks.
And the information inside, I hate to say this, it's not going to please you, it's going to make you angry, because it's going to tell you the truth about what really happened in Oklahoma City on April the 19th, 1995.
volume one just covers that one day from dawn until that day was over about 24 hours later.
It goes off on some tangents to talk about some things that resulted from what happened
on that day, but it really doesn't go into any of the...
For instance, Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, John Doe number two, none of these people
are even mentioned in this volume.
Now they don't appear until the epilogue.
Now, I'm going to have to publicly object to the use of the word tangent, okay?
These are not tangents that we went off on in this book.
But, for example, your local coverage of... Spinoffs.
Spinoffs.
Well, a tangent, in my mind, denotes something off of the subject.
These are very much on point.
Uh, for example, when you have Governor Keating standing on the street corner announcing to the world that because of this bombing, prudent and protective measures must be taken, then you have to look at exactly what he was talking about when he meant prudent and protective measures.
And in order to do that you have to go first back a little bit in time and then forward a little bit in time to give the reader the history and then all of the pertinent facts and then the legislation that resulted.
So I don't consider that a tangent and just find another word.
Just call it something else.
But no it's not a tangent at all.
taking absolutely everything that occurred and all the comments that were made and taking them apart
just phrase by phrase for what was really being discussed what was really being done
and a lot of times you find that elaborations elaborate oh I like that there you go
we'll call them elaborations right so uh it's difficult to explain to people when you say
It just covers the first day.
And they go, what happened?
It just covered the first day.
But there were so many things happening all at once that meant more things than people thought when we began looking into it.
Certain actions, certain events had much greater import than was at first readily apparent.
And all of these matters are handled in great detail in the book.
You want to hear something that's absolutely incredible?
Before we went on the air, I was trying to get a level on you.
I couldn't get any levels on you.
Now you're pegging the needles and blowing them right off the... I knew that was going to happen.
I just knew it.
So, you don't need to be as close as you are.
But this is really nice.
I really like to see those needles go up there.
That means that everybody can hear you and they don't have any problems understanding what we're talking about.
Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to cover some new developments.
some of them aren't new, but were known only to us for quite some time until we were able
to obtain documentation or obtain two or three more credible sources.
And so we're going to be talking about some of those things for the next 40, 45 minutes.
And then during the second hour, we're going to open the phone so that you can call in
and talk to Michelle.
And when we do that, ladies and gentlemen, I want you to have one question or one comment
and make it very brief so we can take as many calls as possible and then get off the line
so Michelle can react or reply or answer your question, whatever that happens to be.
We won't be doing that until the end of this hour.
So...
So where would you like to start?
You want to just start at the beginning of our checklist?
We held a big briefing today where Michelle just went over a lot of the things that have
been accumulating and that we've been collecting information on and putting things together
and discussing some of the clues and evidence that we have and that took several hours and
now we're just going to discuss some of those things.
So go ahead and start wherever you want to Michelle, wherever you feel comfortable.
Well we began by looking at the handwritten field notes from the FBI of the inventory
of property, of items taken from Terry Nichols' property in Harrington, Kansas.
The reason that we were looking so closely at that is because of a recent story which
was splashed all over the front page of the Daily Oklahoman about this alleged getaway
map that they supposedly found in Terry Nichols' trash and they say, well they say a lot of
things, that it's a map of Oklahoma City but none of the streets are marked and they're
just guessing and then we discovered that the alleged map is actually drawn in two different
kinds of ink.
So we went over the inventory list in great detail and you would think given the amount
of detail that's listed in that, I mean every little piece of trash, every little receipt,
every little thing that they took from his home is cataloged on this evidence log.
And you would think that if they found something that resembled a map, a getaway map of Oklahoma City, that that would be marked and preserved.
There's nothing like that anywhere on the evidence log.
And the closest thing that appears are some papers and miscellaneous documents which were taken from the trash of the garbage can out by the garage.
So if they if this is going to be an other document, then I guess that's how they listed it.
But I don't really see that as being the case at all.
If it's a real piece of evidence, they just slushed over it.
But now it's very useful to them.
And a lot of people have a theory about where this actually originated, where the story, the source of the story originated, and we're investigating that.
It's just becoming very useful to them now because the prosecution is scrambling and they don't have much of a case.
They've got to do something.
They're trying to build a public consensus of opinion that these two young men are guilty.
Well, they're manufacturing evidence to do it.
Absolutely, manufacturing evidence.
And this did not come directly from the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
We know that.
What, the story?
The story.
No, it did not.
So, in our estimation, and from what we've been able to research, If there is a map, it certainly was not listed on any of the inventories of the seized evidence taken from Terry Nichols or his abode, if you will.
Well, it's really amazing to look at those evidence logs.
There are maybe 25 or 30 pages.
of listings of things that they took and they didn't miss a lick.
They went over that property with a fine tooth comb and yet now all of a sudden they want
to tell us they found a map and it's not on the inventory list.
I think this is a bologna story completely.
And this isn't the first time that bologna stories have erupted.
In fact it's becoming quite common.
Well it will be interesting to see too about the two different kinds of ink.
It could have been, if there was anything at all, it could have been a drawing of almost
anything and then doctored up after the fact to resemble whatever they needed to resemble
to make the case.
So where do we go from here?
Well, we're dealing with a lot of things that I'm not really sure about yet, such as the axle housing number not really being assigned to any rider vehicle, but we're still investigating that.
Photographs have turned up that show Bob Ricks downtown in front of the Murrah building between 907 and 912.
When he was supposed to be playing golf.
When he was supposed to be playing golf.
Quite a ways away in Shawnee, wasn't it?
Yeah, at Fire Lake Golf Course.
And that's an interesting story still being investigated also.
And we were told that a large number of scorecards were requested prior to this golfing event.
So I suppose anyone could thank being there.
And perhaps Bob Ritz could have gotten away with this were it not for the fact that we have him photographed on the scene.
Now, initially, we had investigated his story and sent people and called all the golf courses in the state of Oklahoma and could not find any golf course that had held a game or a contest to benefit the Special Olympics.
But we didn't know about the Shawnee Lake course.
Fire Lake.
Fire Lake, I'm sorry.
Near Shawnee.
It's the Fire Lake course near Shawnee, Oklahoma.
Where they actually did.
So we have to retract our previous statement that we have now located the place where they did have, in fact, a golf tournament to benefit the Special Olympics and there were all kinds of law enforcement personnel there.
However, we have evidence that Bob Ricks was, in fact, in Oklahoma City and was not there where he says that he was.
In fact, we have photographs that show distinctly Bob Ricks near the Alfred P. Murrow Federal
Building very shortly after the explosion.
And the testimony of three eyewitnesses who saw him there.
So even if we didn't have the photographs, there are people who recognize him, know him,
and they'll swear that he was there.
And he was there.
So I don't know why he continues telling the story about the golf course.
He was not present at the golf course.
But the tournament did occur.
He just wasn't there.
Now he's not the only one that was there.
We have eyewitness testimony from quite a few people that there was a bomb squad in the parking lot that morning before the explosion.
We have a lot of testimony from different people that ATF and FBI personnel were there
in SWAT team uniforms with weapons prior to the explosion.
And when the bomb went off, they all ran and hid and changed clothes before they came back.
And when they came back, they claimed that they had just arrived on the scene.
Right.
They were all over the place in downtown Oklahoma City prior to the actual bomb going off.
So they were escaping out the Murrah building long before the event actually occurred.
They knew this was going to happen?
Yes, they did.
There's no doubt about that.
And they messed it up real bad.
And now many people are being intimidated and some folks are being killed because of what they know and because they want to come forward with this information about how the feds messed this up.
Well, they're not going to get away with it.
It's too late for them to hide it.
There are too many people who know.
There's too much evidence that has been uncovered.
They failed to stop the publication of Oklahoma City Day One, which is just devastating to every statement that they've issued since that building was devastated with that bomb.
Or those bombs, I should say, because we know and can prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that it was not just A bomb and a vehicle out on the street.
In fact, we have testimony from the UPS driver that there was no truck, no large vehicle of any kind, in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.
What time was it that he said that... He came out of the building at 8.57 and pulled away from the curb at 8.58 and his timings on these things are very exact.
Because as a UPS driver you have to log, keep a continual log of when you arrive and when you depart and how long your business took inside wherever you're delivering.
And he arrived at the building about 8.45.
He made two deliveries while he was there.
Came out at about 8.57 and pulled away from the curb at exactly 8.58.
And he says that there were no large vehicles, not even minivan that size large vehicles
in front of the building at that time.
So if there had been a yellow Ryder truck there at 857 it surely would have attracted
his attention.
And the explosion occurred exactly four minutes from that time.
Right.
Now I don't know if anybody could pull up in a great big Ryder truck and park and arm
their bomb and get out and get away within four minutes.
Some people would say that it's possible but it's not probable.
There's some question too about was the rider truck a white rider truck or a yellow rider truck because of course they have two different fleece and I believe they're getting ready to fade out all the yellow ones but there seems to be a shortage of yellow truck parts and This is something we're still investigating as to whether it was a, well, whether there was a Ryder truck there at all.
We'll just leave it at that.
Well, if it was big as they said it was, there should be an awful lot of yellow metal all over the place.
Yep, should have been.
Should have been.
We reviewed, now we can state with positive assurance that there were definitely three McVeigh's in downtown Oklahoma City on the day of the bombing.
Yeah, if you'll remember folks up until this point we have told you right from the beginning that there were at least two McVeigh look-alikes calling themselves McVeigh and possibly three.
We now have the proof that there were indeed three.
Tim McVeigh look-alikes.
We don't know which one is the real Tim McVeigh.
We don't even know if the one they have in custody is the real Tim McVeigh.
So why don't you elaborate on that evidence?
Well, it was a real interesting moment in doing the investigation to suddenly realize that I had the information about the third McVeigh on my desk for months and didn't even know it.
Because we get so caught up working the threads that are outside of the court documents, and then you come back to the court documents, and then you find something that fits with all of your external pieces, and it's a moment of great revelation.
But from, in last August, we were investigating the story of Mike Morose, who worked at Joe's Tire Shop up on Northwest 10th.
And he saw a McVeigh that we know for sure is not the real Timothy McVeigh wearing a backward baseball cap, which is totally out of character for the real McVeigh.
He didn't even like ball caps.
He had an army cap that he wore.
And in that particular instance, McVeigh, the alleged McVeigh, was the driver.
And the man resembling the drawing taken from the photograph of John Doe II was in the passenger side.
This was at about 8.40 in the morning.
In last December, we began investigating the appearance of the second Ryder truck, and this involved taking extensive interviews with David Snyder, who worked at a loading dock on the east side of Oklahoma City, and at about the same time Morose was seeing his John Doe, I mean his McVeigh and John Doe 2, David Snyder was seeing a different McVeigh and John Doe 2.
And this McVeigh was not wearing a baseball cap.
He was the passenger in the truck and the driver of this particular vehicle did not
resemble the John Doe 2 drawing that you've seen in the newspapers.
This man had a much more Native American or Hispanic appearance with the long straight
very dark hair and olive complected whereas the John Doe 2 picture you've seen has real
short curly hair.
This guy had long very straight very very dark hair.
And then I was going through all these court documents and came across the original.
criminal complaint against McVeigh and was reading through the affidavit made by Henry Gibbons who was the FBI agent who prepared that affidavit for the courts and under paragraph six it talks as one of the probable cause reasons for keeping McVeigh in jail that witnesses saw a man resembling Mr. McVeigh in front of the federal building at 840 and that this person was still there In front of the federal building at 855.
So it would be impossible for this person to be in three places at once.
So we definitely now have three McVeigh's on the scene.
And previous to that we had found testimony and witnesses who saw McVeigh in two different states at the same time.
Right, right.
So up until this point we knew that there were definitely two.
Now we have the documented evidence Uh, based upon three different sets of documentation and three different sets of eyewitness reports that McVeigh, on that morning, was in three different places in Oklahoma City at the exact same time, which is absolutely impossible for one man to do.
And for those of you who have been studying the Kennedy assassination, this brings back The old testimony of witnesses who saw Lee Harvey Oswald in two different places at the same time and in two different countries at the same time on several different occasions.
I think it's highly ironic that this information originates with the FBI to confirm our third John Doe.
Yes.
I think that's enough.
Well, I think it's fitting.
I think it is fitting that it does come from the people who are helping to cover up the truth and scam the American people into buying this bullshit.
Yes, we went over also, we spent about four hours today going over all these things and
dealt with a statement made last October by Ralph Schultz of the Phoenix office of the
ADL, the Anti-Defamation League, where he stated publicly on the news that the ADL was
responsible for the arrests of the people who were arrested in the bombing and that
they had had McVeigh under surveillance themselves for two years.
And that fits with our investigation because we know for an absolute fact that Tim McVeigh
and John Doe No. 2...
2 are whoever, whichever one of these three Tim McVeighs it was that was going around the country talking to people and going to gun shows and visiting patriot leaders.
Uh, was under surveillance, uh, for, for, uh, several months before the bombing.
At least nine months that we know of.
Possibly, uh, much, much longer.
And the statement of Mr. Schultz confirms that, uh, they were indeed under surveillance.
And if this is really true and the ADL knew about this and were surveilling these people, that makes the ADL an accomplice in, uh, in my book.
Yes, and it's knowing that if this is true.
Knowing that they were surveilling McVeigh for two years.
If Mr. Schultz is telling the truth.
Right.
Which I believe that he is.
We have always had a problem making the time set with the arrests and when the FBI said they knew they had McVeigh and all of this sort of thing.
And we went over information about the FBI contacting Lana Padilla, who was Terry Nichols'
ex-wife in Las Vegas, at approximately 8.30 in the morning on Friday the 21st, which is
before they admitted that they knew they had McVeigh in the Perry County Jail.
You have to understand that the only connection that brings in James Nichols and Terry Nichols
into this thing at all is because McVeigh wrote on his card at the jail, next of kin,
James Nichols, because James had a permanent address and Tim moved around a lot and Terry
had just recently moved within a couple of months to his Kansas home.
Now the government claims that they arrested, they went up to arrest Terry Nichols and James Nichols based upon the evidence that they found on Tim McVeigh and we now know that that's not true.
They lied.
They had to have known that they had McVeigh from the very beginning or there would have been no connection with this incident with James or Terry Nichols.
The FBI was setting up their operations to arrest, well, yeah, to arrest, to search the farm and arrest James Nichols on the night of Thursday the 20th and they're calling Lana Padilla the morning of the 21st before they get their hands on Terry.
It's all very, it fits.
If Mr. Schultz's information is correct, it makes a lot of things fit.
And that it was not true that the FBI did not know that Tim McVeigh was sitting in the Perry County Jail after he was arrested on the 19th.
I believe they probably knew he was there the whole time.
Of course.
They put him there according to eyewitness reports.
There was a military helicopter.
There were men wearing FBI jackets and ATF jackets surrounding this yellow Mercury when Tim McVeigh was arrested.
And we have reports right from the beginning that Tim McVeigh was taken by helicopter, or somebody was taken by helicopter to the city where McVeigh was.
Well, taken away somewhere.
Yes, taken away.
And there's also some question as to whether McVeigh was traveling alone in a vehicle.
Some leads I'm working on right now that have not, we haven't finished working on them to conclusively state that there was a passenger with him, but it looks pretty good that there was somebody in the car with him and we don't know who that person was or where they are now, but they were not placed under arrest.
Now let me just recount for some of you the original story of the arrest.
They claimed that McVeigh was speeding on the highway with no license plates and was
pulled over by an Oklahoma Highway Patrol officer who then, you know, discovered that
he had no license plate on his car, which he knew, but he didn't have one in his car
either, and then discovered that Tim McVeigh had a weapon, and so he was placed under arrest.
And according to the official story, this officer took McVeigh to jail in his car and
left the Yellow Mercury by the side of the road.
But we now have located not one, not two, not three, not four, but many, many witnesses
who saw the arrest take place, saw the military helicopter on the side of the road next to
the Yellow Mercury at the exact time and the exact place where Tim McVeigh was arrested,
surrounded by ATF and FBI personnel.
And we have all of their testimony on tape.
And it is devastating.
So they lied about the arrest of Tim McVeigh.
They lied about why he was stopped and who made the arrest.
They lied about who was there and who was not there.
And they claimed that they didn't even know that Tim McVeigh was in custody until several days later.
And we know that they knew that he was there from the very beginning.
This information throws a very interesting light on comments made by Charlie Hanger.
He was the Highway Patrol officer who affected the arrests, or was credited with affecting the arrests.
And of course the media wanted to interview him and wanted to tell him what a great hero he was and all this stuff.
And his only comment to the press was, I can't talk to you about this.
I don't want to mess things up.
That's a direct quote.
So he was an accomplice from the beginning in this deception.
And that's just another bit of the puzzle that tells us absolutely that they knew who they were looking for before these explosions ever occurred.
And the whole thing is a terrible, terrible, tragic farce.
Yes, it is.
And I'm thinking now about Officer Yiki.
I don't know if the public know about this man.
He was an Oklahoma City police officer.
And not too long ago, maybe a couple of months ago, he and two of his fellow officers were to be honored at a special dinner where he was going to be given this Medal of Commendation for performance above and beyond the call of duty with rescues that he did on the day of the bombing.
And yet, for some unexplained reason at that time, he turned up dead.
A couple of days before he was to receive this medal, and it was instantly determined that his death was a suicide.
And without going into too many of the details about that, it will suffice it to say that there are a lot of people who do not believe that this was a suicide.
And in working through The facts that are attainable on these different people who have mysteriously turned up dead, we're at five now, it's very rare to come across anything after the fact that refers to their state of mind prior to their death.
There haven't been any suicide notes left by these individuals saying, I'm bummed out, I'm depressed, I'm going to kill myself.
But in the case of Officer Yuki, we are now investigating a document that we've obtained that is believed to be written by him.
And once we can determine that it really is his, and that won't be too difficult to do
because they know who's got the real one.
When we confirm the validity of this, it is really going to turn some things
in Oklahoma City on their ear as far as the federal officials go.
But we do have this document.
Do you want to read that document to our listening audience?
I'll read part of it to them.
Okay.
I don't want to read it all.
We're just going to read part of the document.
We're not going to read all of it to you because we don't want to... There's some things in here that are personal that we shouldn't read.
There don't have any bearing on the investigation.
But since I know to whom this was written, without getting permission for those parts to be read, I would rather wait.
Great.
Okay.
Listen very carefully, ladies and gentlemen.
This is devastating.
And remember, this man is dead now.
Dear blank, I hope that whatever you hear now and in the future will not change your opinions about myself or others with the Oklahoma City Police Department, although some of the things I am about to tell you are very disturbing.
I don't know if you recall everything that happened that morning or not, so I am not sure if you know what I am referring to.
The man that you and I were talking about in the pictures, I have made the mistake of asking too many questions as to his role in the bombing and was told to back off.
I was told by several officers that he was an ATF agent who was overseeing the bombing plot and at the time the photos were taken he was calling in his report of what had just gone down.
I'm going to stop reading this and tell you that the man they are discussing is named Harry Eberhardt and he is the BATF agent who was on the scene at the time of the bombing who called the Dallas office of the BATF and made his report presumably to Ralph Ostrowski in Dallas and he was the one who said it was an ANFO bomb and it was about a thousand pounds of explosives and of course we know that story changed but this is the man they're discussing.
He is also a BNTF officer who was present in New Mexico before the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building when they were conducting tests blowing up vehicles with, guess what?
Ammonium nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil.
Continue with this letter.
I think my days as a police officer are numbered because of the way my supervisors are acting, and there are a lot of secrets floating around now about my mental state of mind.
I think they are going to write me up because of my ex-wife and a VPO.
I told you about talking to Chaplain Poe.
Well, the bastard wrote up in a report stating I should be relieved of my duties.
I made the mistake of thinking that a person's conversation with a chaplain was private, which, by the way, might have cost me my job as a police officer.
A friend at headquarters told me that Poe sent out letters to everyone in the department.
I was told that Jack Poe has written up a report on every single officer that has been in to see him, including Gordon Martin and John Avera.
Knowing what I know now, and understanding fully just exactly what went down that morning, makes me ashamed to wear a badge from the Oklahoma City's Police Department.
I took an oath to uphold the law and to enforce the law to the best of my ability.
This is something I cannot honestly do and hold my head up proud any longer if I keep my silence as I am ordered to do.
There are several others out there who was what we saw and even some who played a role in what happened that day.
Bill Martin has it out for you big time, so be very careful about what you say.
He is a regular, and that's a bad word, who has his nose so far up the FBI is another bad word.
It's a wonder he comes up for air.
I don't know what to say about Captain Hill.
I know I saw him there that morning, and I know he knows the whole ugly truth, but I can't tell you for certain where he stands on this.
I know you are fond of Don Browning and I haven't been able to really feel him out as to what he knows or if he is a poor bastard like me that is caught up in all of this.
He brought by some pictures and so forth from your group which I caught hell over.
He can tell you a few things about what I was telling you about.
In the past, an officer could pull up a report to review it, but that isn't true when it concerns the bombing.
My guess is, the more time an officer has to think about the screw-up, the more he is going to question what happened.
There was an officer who was involved in a high-speed chase not too long ago who got so much flack because he made the wrong choices in his pursuit and wrecked his cruiser.
Can you imagine what would be coming down now if that had been our officers who had let this happen?
Because it was the feds that did this and not the locals, that is the reason it's okay.
You were right all along and I am truly sorry I doubted you and your motives about recording history.
You should know that it is going to be one hell of a fight.
Everyone was behind you until you started asking questions as I did as to how so many federal agents arrived at the scene at the same time.
Luke Franey was not in the building at the time of the blast.
I know this for a fact.
I saw him.
I also saw full riot gear worn with rifles in hand.
Why?
Don't make the mistake as I did and ask the wrong people.
I worry about you and your young family because of some of the statements that have been made towards me, a police officer.
Whatever you do, don't confront McPherson with the bomb squad about what I told you.
His actions and defensiveness toward the bomber would make any normal person think he was defending himself as if he drove the damn truck up to the building himself.
I am not worried for myself, but for you and your group.
I would not be afraid to say at this time that you and your family could be harmed if you get any closer to the truth.
At this time, I think for your well-being, it is best for you to distance yourself and others from those of us who have stirred up too many questions about the altering and falsifying of the federal investigations reports.
I truly believe there are other officers like me out there who would not settle for anything but the truth.
It is just a matter of finding them.
The only true problem, as I see it, is who do we turn to then?
It is vital that people like you, Edie Smith, and others keep asking questions and demanding answers for the actions of our federal government and law enforcement agencies that knew forehand and participated in the cover-up.
The sad truth of the matter is that they have so many police officers convinced that by covering up the truth about the operations gone wrong, they are actually doing our citizens a favor.
What I want to know is how many other operations have they had that blew up in their faces?
Makes you stop and take another look at Waco.
Think about it.
Their cover was blown.
So why take your agents in and risk them being shot?
Same thing with the truck.
Why bring the truck all the way into the city?
John Doe number two could flee the scene on foot alongside the interstate into the trees.
It happens all the time.
I've wanted to say something to you every time I see you, but can't find the words to express my feelings.
In some ways, Joanne is right.
I did nothing any other officer would have done.
So therefore, do not consider myself as a hero, but an Oklahoma City police officer who was just doing what comes naturally and doing his job.
I would consider it to be an insult to my profession as a police officer and to the citizens of Oklahoma for any of the city, state, or federal agents that stood by and let this happen to be recognized as anything other than their part in participation in letting this happen.
For those who ran from the scene to change their attire, to hide the fact that they were there, they should be judged as cowards.
For those who tried to help the injured and dying, as being human, but not heroes in any way whatsoever.
If our history books and records are ever truly corrected about that day, it will show this, and maybe even some lame excuse as to why it happened, but I truly don't believe it will, from what I now know to be the truth.
Even if I tried to explain it to you the way it was explained to me, and the ridiculous reasons for having our own police department falsify reports to their fellow officers, to the citizens of the city, and to our country, you would understand why I feel the way I do about all of this.
I believe that a lot of the problems the officers are having right now are because some of them know what really happened and can't deal with it.
And others, like myself, made the mistake of trusting the one person we were supposed to be able to turn to, Chaplain Poe, only to be stabbed in the back.
I am sad to say that I believe my days as a police officer are numbered because of all of this.
They won't kick me out for asking too many questions over the bombing.
They are not that stupid when it comes to putting the shaft to someone like me.
I think it will be over my ex-wife, which is another story, but still related to that day.
For you, I have to admit I saw angels.
Beautiful angels.
But I also saw demons lurking in the wings as well.
Maybe that is why I can't just let this go, like so many feel I should.
Somehow I feel better for taking the time to write this letter and the pleasure of meeting you and your husband.
There are not many people out there that would feel the way you do and would take the time to correct the records as far as police officers like myself.
If you are wondering why this letter, it's because every time I come by to talk to you about something we get off on another subject, so I had some time on my hands to put some thoughts down on paper.
Almost time for me to report in, so I had better end this now.
Let me end this letter with a phrase I copied a few weeks ago.
It was in a book about eyewitness accounts of the Jewish Holocaust that made me think of you.
The heavens opened wide and the multitude watched as great numbers of angels descended amongst them.
Concealed in the thick, rolling black smoke of the forbidden furnaces, they watched the angels descending, bringing from above echoes of mercy while whispering words of love, while demons watched with glee from the shadows of the hatred they had caused.
I believe in God, and I believe in angels, and yes, I believe in people like you, your friend now and ever after, Officer Terrence Terry Yickey.
I'm still young, but I know my G's are numbered.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and so on.
But a time will come when these numbers have all ended.
will be forgotten.
the devil's seed will be forgotten.
Won't you come to my funeral when my days are done?
Life's not a song.
Oh, I hope that I am finally here and gone.
Gather round.
I am no demon, he's a drunk.
In my coffin I'm sealed, And I'm sweetly sixteen hundred.
But if my friends will see this, they're going to judge me.
Always taking pause, to consider all my blunders.
It won't be too quick to begrudge me.
Won't you come to my funeral when my days are done?
Life's not long, say honey, and I am finally here and gone.
Yeah, the ground.
I have slowed into the ground.
If I die before I wake up, I pray that Lord my soul will stay, but my tongue My Barney, there's no job.
Well, I can't be sure where I'm headed after death.
To heaven, hell, or gone to that griffith.
But if I did, I would like to meet my maker.
One or two things I'd sure like to hear.
Yes, I want to lose you, girl.
My soul and my dreams are done.
But I have not long to live.
You are with me and I am mine.
We can go together round.
When I am loathed in your God.
Well, I don't know about you, but that got to me a little bit.
We need to talk about a friend of all of us, whether we know this person personally or not, who's in great danger right now.
Why don't you discuss that a little bit, Michelle, before we get into the talk of the hour here?
Okay.
There is a woman in Oklahoma City by the name of Ramona McDonald.
And she is a victim and she has organized a group of other disgruntled victims who are asking an awful lot of questions about what really occurred on April the 19th and she has recently come under attack by the FBI, representatives of the FBI and the BATF and so forth and they're trying to manipulate her behavior Cause her to cancel some of her meetings.
They're feeding her an awful lot of disinformation trying to make her believe that this was a militia operation.
The woman is extremely vulnerable and not in particularly good health.
And I'm concerned that they're going to hurt her.
And so we need to make public that she is doing the best she can with the information that she has.
And the people who are attempting to hurt her need to back off because we are watching what they are doing very, very closely.
In other words, for those of you in the federal government agencies that are endangering this woman, you may be watching her, but I can assure you we are watching you.
And if anything happens to her, we know who did it.
You will answer for it.
And you will suffer the penalty under the law because we will bring you to the bar of justice.
I can assure you that.
And that's the reason for this little blurb on tonight's broadcast is to let the whole world know.
Why don't you give her name and... Ramona McDonald in Oklahoma City.
She has regular meetings with some of these people who are, they just want to know what really happened and some of them are victims and they're not satisfied with the federal response that they're getting and they certainly don't intend anyone harm but apparently someone intends great harm to her.
And we know that she's been contacted by high-level federal officials really trying to get her to believe that the militia blew up the federal building and that if she continues to hold these meetings, some of their infiltrators will be killed and their blood will be on her hands.
And she needs to understand that that is not the case.
And by searching for the truth in this matter, you endanger no one except the real perpetrators.
That's right.
If the government were interested in the truth, they wouldn't be threatening people like that.
Don't go away, ladies and gentlemen.
We've got to go up for the network break.
We'll be right back to continue with the Hour of the Time.
take your phone calls after this short pause.
I'm going to play a little bit of the song.
This is the voice of freedom.
You're listening to the Worldwide Freedom Radio Network.
Ladies and gentlemen, don't forget to stay tuned immediately following the Hour of the
Time for the debut on the Worldwide Freedom Radio Network of The Quest for Help with Michael
Cottingham.
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Everybody's eyes are dry, and we are ready now to take your calls for Michelle Moore.
Major Moore is an intelligence officer for the Intelligence Service of the Second Continental Army of the Republic, and until we leaved recently, was the station chief for Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Arkansas.
What's the number?
The number, for those of you who don't know it, is 520-333-4533.
7-8, and we'll take your calls right now.
This is the chance that many of you have been waiting for to call and actually talk to Michelle, ask your questions, and probe into the mind that has been leading the investigation into the Oklahoma City bombing for the Intelligence Service of the Second Continental Army of the Republic.
520-333-4578 is the number.
Good evening.
0-333-4578 is the number. Good evening. You're on the air.
Hello.
Oh, I see what's wrong.
Good evening.
Now you're on the air.
Hello, I have a question for Michelle.
Okay, go for it.
Michelle, in your opinion, is there any chance that Bill Clinton did not know beforehand about this, or give the direct order?
That's my question.
I'll take the answer out of the air.
Thank you.
Did you understand the question?
He wants to know, in your opinion, if there's any chance that Bill Clinton did not know or did not give the order.
I don't know if Bill Clinton gave the order.
I can't imagine that he did not know.
With the information that we have about the Marshal Service memos going out a month before the bombing, warning federal agencies and officers to be on the lookout for this coming event, I can't imagine that he wouldn't know and that Mrs. Reno also knew.
That's my opinion.
Okay.
520-333-4578 is the number.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes, Michelle and Bill.
Thank you very much.
This is Fred in California.
I wonder, a couple of questions.
Have you or anyone else that you know of been able to contact the Highway Patrol officer who was credited with McVeigh's arrest?
Charlie Hanger is making no statements whatsoever at all to anyone under any circumstances.
He absolutely refuses to be interviewed or to talk to anyone connected with an investigation or with the press outside of the government agencies.
Okay.
What about the property report that didn't mention the handgun holster or ammo?
Didn't you publish that in Veritas?
No, that wasn't published in Veritas.
I saw it somewhere, the property report on what McVeigh had in his pockets and on his person, and I'm pretty sure that I saw a reproduction of it, although it may have been the whole thing typed out or something, but at any rate it didn't mention any handgun holster or ammunition.
Well, we have determined that he was carrying a Glock pistol, there's no doubt about that.
But it was not concealed, it was laid on the seat.
I see.
And he was known to have a sidearm holster, but I don't know that he was wearing it at the time of the arrest.
There were reports on the news that the officer saw the gun in the holster under his jacket.
Well, I guess it just depends on who you ask, huh?
That's right.
Our information is that the pencil was lying on the seat of his automobile, was not concealed, and I remember reading the property report of what they took from Tim McVeigh when he was arrested.
And I don't remember seeing a pistol listed, but it's been a long time since I've read it.
That property report, I recall, had just been released by the media, and the information that we had at the time that was talked about on the hour at the time was not a copy of the official document, which you can now obtain.
So, it may have changed since that time.
I don't remember exactly what Bill read at that time, but we were citing media sources at that time.
Yeah, that was the report released to the media that the official said was the property report and listed all of the things that were taken from him at the time of his arrest.
And there was no, I remember perfectly now, there was no pistol listed in that property report.
Right, yeah.
I thought I heard that.
So that's a rather glaring omission.
But there are so many questions raised by this and I started to take notes and then when you read that letter I just kind of lost track of the questions I had.
That was pretty dynamite and pretty depressing.
Indeed, it is.
Well, I'll let you go for other calls and I sure do appreciate the work you've done, Michelle.
It's really awesome.
Thank you very much, Brent.
I guess you've still got a lot ahead of you.
Yeah, it never ends.
Wait until you read the book.
Once you read the book, you will begin to appreciate what we're doing and what Michelle has been doing And all of the people who have worked under her for all of this time, because it's not just me and it's not just Michelle, it's many, many members of the Intelligence Service, the CADI News Service, just people who don't belong to any of those two organizations who have wanted to help and have provided clues and testimony.
It is an overwhelming number of people and an overwhelming experience.
And you'll begin to appreciate it when you read Oklahoma City Day One and realize that there are two more volumes to come, both of which will be much larger than this particular volume.
Well, what you've already told us on the air in the past weeks has just bowled me over because it's so much more than we've heard from our free press.
Well, that's my job.
Yeah.
Thanks very much.
You're welcome, Brad.
520-333-4578 is the number.
Michelle is here.
She will take your call.
She will answer your questions.
She will comment upon your input, if you have any.
And if you're a witness to anything that we need to know, now's your chance to call in and get it off your chest and give us some more clues as to where we can go to really cement this thing into something that can't be broken.
And I've got to tell you, we've already done that.
But the more we can gather, the better off we're all going to be.
This is about freedom, ladies and gentlemen.
This is about the America that we always thought that we lived in and are beginning to find out may not be that America.
We're being destroyed from within.
There are forces at work in this country to destroy the rights of the average man, to take away the protection of those rights under the Constitution, and bring about a one-world totalitarian socialist government on the ashes of the United States of America.
520-333-4578.
520-333-4578.
While we're waiting for another call, Michelle, why don't we talk about some of the other
For instance, just recently, we found more confirmation of the fulminate of Mercury, which we were the ones who uncovered that story.
And within just a few days, the bombing announced it on the air.
Of course, at that time, we had no independent confirmation, and our sources were anonymous.
But since then, there was an interview granted to Relevance Magazine by the public relations officer of the Oklahoma City Police Department who confirmed that there were cans of fulminate mercury found in the building and removed by the bomb squad.
And then we kept looking and eventually found another source.
Do you want to talk about that source?
Oh, well... You don't have to name a name if it's premature.
Yeah, well there are other witnesses now willing to testify that there were olive-grab-colored canisters of full metal mercury clearly marked bearing mil-spec numbers found on the different floors of the Murrah building with detonators attached and a timer.
Okay.
I didn't know what you were doing there.
And Bill Martin, of course, was quoted in his interview as saying that he knew those were there.
It didn't bother him that they were there.
He just assumed that such canisters were part of the BATF's arsenal of goodies that they kept there.
The only problem being that the canisters of mercury were not found anywhere near the BATF offices or their known arsenal rooms, which were on the ninth floor.
And then he was ordered to make no further statement whatsoever.
A gag order was placed on all police officers by Sam Gonzalez, the chief of police, because he feared that controversial issues would hurt the case of the prosecution.
And the other witnesses are now coming forward and describing the same canisters with the timer and the detonators and so forth.
So it's a done deal.
Now, we also have a report from an expert firm who investigated the building, the portion that was still standing after the explosions.
They confirmed General Parton's report, and they also make some additional statements based upon their examination of the building, some things that happened on the fourth floor.
How about going into some of that?
Well, actually, there are two reports that you're talking about, and I think we left them over in the Research Center, or I would read part of them on the air.
One of them definitely confirms that the building could not have been destroyed to the degree that it was by just an ANFO bomb out in the street, and that it had to have been brought down, especially those west end columns, by internally placed charges at the columns.
And then the second report was prepared by a firm who was asked to assess the state of Remains of the building to recommend whether the building could be rebuilt upon, restored, or if they just needed to implode the whole thing, get rid of it, and start from scratch.
And, of course, their ultimate recommendation was that the building needed to be destroyed and none of it could be saved.
But the interesting thing about that report was that they clearly came to the conclusion
that the large cutout portion of column A4 was severed at the fourth floor level at the
placement of a utility closet, probably by some internal bomb.
Internally placed explosive on that column on the fourth floor in the utility closet.
And this is absolutely devastating.
Confirms General Benton Parton's report.
And it also confirms another eyewitness report that we have.
About 2.30 in the morning, that morning, 2.30 that morning before the explosion, witnesses,
several witnesses, not just one, saw somebody moving room to room on the fourth floor with
flashlights.
And...
Yeah, these men in question were doing repair work on the roof of the federal courthouse.
And the roof level of the federal courthouse is approximately at fourth floor level with the Murrah building.
It's located right across the little plaza to the south of the Murrah building.
At that hour of the night, at about 2.30 in the morning, they were finishing up their work.
The building was dark except for exit lights at the ends of the halls.
And these gentlemen clearly viewed two men wearing coveralls, moving slowly and deliberately
room to room with flashlights from one end of the Murrah building to the other, and only
at the fourth floor level.
He was a man of great talent.
He was a man of great talent.
And he was a man of great talent.
Why do people get complacent with the things they do?
Well, disasters, they come and go.
I get mad at things I see back home.
And there are people I don't know why, that I keep on believing.
It's confusing but I don't know why I've made my plans already
I've been struggling all my life.
The world is at their beckoning door.
I give all my strength, to see that come, the days of our future.
I ask and whine, Oh, yes, there are people asking why all over the place.
You see, this doesn't make any sense.
They try to blame this on white supremacists, racists.
Why would a white supremacist bomb the Oklahoma City Mirror, a federal building, when most of the people working in there are white?
I mean, if you were a white supremacist, wouldn't you wait until the Million Man March, maybe?
I mean, what kind of logic are these people trying to spin at us?
Not only that, but it is clear, it is clear in the investigation of the background of Timothy McVeigh that he was never a racist.
In fact, he wrote letters to the editor of several newspapers where he complained about what he perceived as racism in our society.
And the barking you hear in the background is Sugar Bear on patrol.
Don't worry, we're safe, and he will keep anyone who tries to invade this studio at bay.
The other story is that somehow, These people who were arrested and who had no connections with any militia in this country, somehow the militia is responsible for blowing up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.
And nothing, again, could be farther from the truth.
You see, ladies and gentlemen, the militia loves this country.
The militia supports the government of this country.
The militia is sworn to protect and defend the constitutions of their states and the constitution for the United States of America.
They have pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.
The militia would never, ever, not in a million years, attack their government unless their government became a tyrant and attacked them first.
In fact, it is the policy of the militia never to fire the first shot.
It is, in fact, a direct order of the commander of the Second Continental Army of the Republic, and in fact, all of the militias that I'm aware of and have any communication with.
May I say something?
But they also would not harbor fugitives from justice.
And it has been speculated by people who have a completely crazy concept of what the mindset
is of the militias, that the militias would or are hiding John Doe II, making him a hero.
And in this way, this man who is supposed to be a federal informant is going to infiltrate,
steal information, feed it back to the feds and thereby stop all future bombings that
the militias would do to kill American citizens.
These people who are putting out this information are nuts.
They are absolutely crazy.
And I know what some of their foundational core belief is to cause them to think this
because they're looking back at the 1985 raid on the Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of
the Lord in Bull Shoals area of Arkansas, when a small handful of extremely radical
people did harbor fugitives from justice who had committed murder and robbed banks and
they were white supremacists and so forth.
But that is not the makeup of the majority of militias in this country.
And so you have a small group of radical jerks out there destroying everything for the rest
of us who want nothing except our freedoms restored and peace in the valley.
That's correct.
Also, that was not a militia.
No, it was not.
It was a religious group.
It was a religious group who subscribed to the religious...
They were well armed.
That's why they call them a militia.
But they were not a militia.
No.
They were well armed because they felt that they had to protect themselves from the...
I don't know what they wanted to protect themselves.
Oh, from the dilution of their race by people of color or something like that.
That's what they're always harping about, that the white race is being destroyed through interbreeding.
But I don't know anybody who's ever done anything like that that didn't actually want to.
Yeah, well, see over over a 10 now 11 year period of time, your radical extremists get
a lot of publicity.
And your normal guy on the street who loves the liberty and loves living in America and
just wants to be left alone gets no publicity whatsoever.
And consequently, all militias are being painted with this extremist paintbrush.
And to the point that lower level federal agents agents in the agencies actually believe that
this is the profile of the militias in this country, that they are potential terrorists.
And they really do believe that by infiltrating the militias, they will stop future bombings.
And I'm here to tell you that that with the Oklahoma City bombing, there are four different
levels of story and responsibility.
And none of these levels interlink with the other.
But they go all the way from the lowest level being the official version which you hear in the press, which is complete baloney, up to the National Security Agency level, the Anthony Lake types in this country.
And their version of this is a completely different version than anything you will ever hear in the media.
And in between those two Top and bottom levels of storytelling is the rumor of the militia extremists, and it's being fed hook, line, and sinker to law enforcement today, to where if you fly the American flag, you are dangerous.
You were looking at something else.
Yes, I was.
As a matter of fact, I'm trying to plan ahead what I'm doing here.
Why don't you go ahead and just take it over?
I know you can do it.
I have great faith in you.
Part of the information that is disinformation, this is, let me announce with a fanfare, this is disinformation, was that John Doe too is to be protected by the militias.
Now that's what the feds are telling other feds.
But there is no militia in this country today who would harbor him.
How could you hide someone whose face is worth two million dollars?
How could you harbor someone who is known all over the planet as being a perpetrator in the Oklahoma City bombing?
or alleged perpetrator, I should say, since none of the people under arrest or looked for
actually played too much of an important role in it. Well, I understand how people could do that
if they were idealistic brothers, so to speak, but we know that that this whole thing was set up in
order to create this scenario so that militias and patriots could be blamed and the American people
would scream to be disarmed and they would get to their shortcut to the new world order much quicker.
And that's the reason why these Timothy McVeigh look-alikes, John Doe No.
and other John Doe's, 3, 4, 5, and 6, went around in pairs together around this country
visiting militias and militia leaders trying to sucker them in to getting involved with
what they were going to do.
And not one single militia person in this country took the bait, participated, or sheltered
them or anything else.
See if those guys had any sense at all, they would have revamped their entire plan at that
point.
If they weren't getting cooperation from the militias and their goal was to take the militias
down, they should have come up with a better way to do it.
This just didn't work.
It wouldn't fly.
And James and Terry...
Went to one meeting of the Michigan Militia and left and never went back.
Because the kind of political activism that James and Terry Nichols are into is the kind taught by the likes of Carl Granzi and Dan Matter and all these people who want to work the system within the laws as they exist according to the definitions of the documents that exist.
Not a militant armed overthrow of anything.
They were totally opposed to that and firmly believed and still believe to this day that some justice could be reached through the courts if you operated the system as it now exists.
And it just required a deep devotion to studying law and understanding statute.
And they both spent lots and lots and lots of time studying that stuff.
And they're quite well versed in it.
And they were opposed to what they heard at the one meeting of the Michigan Militia that they attended because there was talk.
You know how guys get together and start sort of grandstanding about how the big bad boys are coming through the woods and all this stuff.
And they didn't particularly like that approach.
They wanted something more formal and more working the system as it was.
They weren't quite ready to divorce themselves from the entire world when you could do things with documents.
And that's where they were at and where they are at.
attended any other militia meeting at any time in any state anywhere.
And there's no record that I'm aware of that Timothy McVeigh has ever, in fact, the Federal
Bureau of Investigation issued a public statement that Timothy McVeigh was not a member of any
militia.
Terry Nichols and James Nichols were not members of any militia.
And that there was no militia conspiracy and there was no militias involved in the Oklahoma
City bombing.
That's an official statement from the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
But they're not going to let it, they're not giving up.
No, no, they can't because it would defeat their agenda and the agenda is to disarm the American people and bring about a socialist totalitarian world government.
They make no secret of this and we have documented it for, I've been documenting it for four and a half years now on this broadcast in their own words, in their own documents, their own treaties, their own federal register, congressional records, books, statements, newspaper articles, you name it.
There's no doubt about it whatsoever.
In fact, in the first issue of Veritas, we printed, what, five or six pages, five or six full-size newspaper pages of direct quotes, proving without any shadow of a doubt that the New World Order was not invented, as some phrase by George Bush or anybody else, but has been on the drawing boards and is a reality.
For many, many, many years.
And we know exactly what their plans are because they publish them over and over and over and over and over and over again.
They have meetings.
They've had several meetings of large organizations this year and publish and publicly discuss
their agenda and their hopes for this future world order.
So, anyway, that's where we stand.
The number is 520-333-4578.
If there's anybody out there who wants to call in and talk to Michelle Moore, she's sitting right here.
And if we get a call, we'll go to the phones and take it.
If we don't, we'll just continue with this discussion.
I don't know what's the matter with you people.
I've had about a million letters wanting to know why you couldn't ask questions of Michelle when she's been on the air, and the reason is, is because she's always been on the air by phone, and we only have one phone line.
I can either take a guest on that phone line or take calls.
Tonight she's in the studio.
This is your chance.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes.
Could you give me the date when the government imported the building?
The building was imploded on May the 23rd, 1995.
May the 23rd?
Yes.
That's only about a month, isn't it?
Yes, sir.
Okay, that's what I thought.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
And thanks a lot, and I'm going to get the books.
Great.
You're welcome.
520-333-4578.
520-333-4578. What's the next topic on our discussion list here?
Well, let's see, we could talk about manufactured faults, phone records for Terry Nichols, or
planted evidence at his house, or trying to pin the bombing, the robbery of Roger Moore
in Arkansas and James Nichols.
That's the next thing on their agenda, is trying to pin the robbery on him.
I mean, you don't pick a topic.
And the falsified phone, there's been a lot of evidence falsified, or at least potential evidence thrown out hoping that investigating teams, independent investigators, would pick it up and run with it so as to discredit themselves.
The latest has been these falsified phone records of Tim McVeigh.
Terry's.
I'm sorry, Terry and Nichols.
I'm sorry.
The thing about this is they will leak some kind of a phony report to the press.
It gets reported by the press or published in the newspaper.
CNN says something about it.
And then you begin to find this same information turning up in legal briefs by the different, by the prosecution as if this was established fact.
Or people will continue to quote it in books that they write as if it was fact just because the media said it.
And we have some real problems with the supposed phone records of Terry Nichols
in that it shows calls that he was supposed to have made to his brother James in Michigan,
to his brother James' home in Michigan from Terry's home in Kansas at the time that Terry was
in the basement of the Harrington Jail being interrogated by the FBI.
FBI and at the same time that James Nichols was in jail in Michigan.
So there are some serious problems with this evidence and it's clearly been manufactured.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hi Bill, how you doing?
Hi.
Do you think that Tennessee McVeigh's mother queefed?
What?
Would you say that again please?
Do you think that Tennessee McVeigh's mother had a queef problem?
A queef problem?
What are you talking about?
I've never heard that term before.
No?
No.
Can you explain it?
Um, well, it's kind of hard to explain.
I guess you really have to know what the meaning is.
Well, yeah.
No kidding.
Is there anything else you want to ask?
No.
Hello?
Well, it sounds like it was one of those little poopy diapers.
I have no idea.
I have no idea either and I'm not going to play the little baby games with the little airheads.
Let's continue.
What was the other one?
Trying to pin the robbery on James Nichols.
It's very interesting to watch the prosecution wrangle on this matter of what it cost to build the bomb.
First they tell us that it would cost a lot of money to build the ANFO bomb and therefore Terry and Tim robbed or caused to be robbed is the wording in the indictment this man Roger Moore in Arkansas and came away with guns and coins and bullion and all kinds of things like this and these were to be resold to pay for the ingredients of the bomb.
And then in the next breath they tell us, oh well it was such a simple bomb to make and you could get the ingredients and put it together for less than a thousand dollars.
So they really can't make up their mind about this.
And everyone fails to make note of the fact that this man in Arkansas had been contracted on many occasions by the Central Intelligence Agency to do construction work for them in that area.
So, uh, and, uh, the man said that he saw one person leaving his home wearing a ski mask at the time of the robbery.
But even so, he was still sure that it was Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols.
Well, if he was sure it was them, I don't know why they want to pin it on James, except they've got to pin it on somebody.
So, uh, watch for that.
It's coming to a theater near you soon.
I like that analogy.
And, gee, we've been doing this since early this morning, and there are so many things going around in my head that it's getting dizzy.
What else can we discuss?
Let's take this call.
We've got a call here.
Hey, Bill.
Hey.
Cheryl, this is John in Austin, Texas.
Hey, John.
Hey.
Well, I just wanted to say congratulations for getting your book done.
Thank you.
And when's that trial supposed to start?
I kept hearing that the date was moved or something.
Okay.
When the trial will be scheduled will depend greatly on what occurs this week in the court in Denver.
Tomorrow, is tomorrow October 2nd?
Yes.
Okay.
Tomorrow is the first day of two or three days of hearings on the severance motions.
Because the defense, Michael Tigar for Terry Nichols and Stephen Jones for Timothy McVeigh believe that neither man can receive a fair trial if they are tried together.
And there are motions pending for the two men to have severance so that they are tried separately.
And it makes perfect sense to me, but the Tenth Circuit has ruled in other instances
where severance was moved for that in conspiracy cases you could not sever because the two
guys are going to be finger-pointing at each other anyway.
But at the same time that that Tenth Circuit precedent stands, we're getting reports out
of Denver that construction guys are already looking into what it would cost to build a
separate jury box in Judge Mace's courtroom.
Now listen, this is very strange.
Right, so we're not necessarily talking about the possibility of severing the trials where one of them's tried first and a year later the other one's tried, but we're talking about a situation where they may have severance by means of two separate juries sitting in on one big trial and trying to make heads or tails of everything, and of course that's not what the motions are asking for at all, but that is being discussed.
And it's also the, I've never heard of anything like this ever happening before in this country
where they're going to have two juries both sitting listening to the trial.
At the same time, the juries will be separate from each other, segregated and the whole
works and I'm not really sure what they're up to yet, but I don't like the way this sounds.
I've got to tell you, because if they're establishing some kind of strange judicial precedent, it could be bad for all of us.
Well, this business of the two juries came about because there was such a big hue and cry about, don't put the families through the horror of going through two separate trials, and this thing will never end, and blah blah blah.
So they may just be making up the rules as they go along, but in answer to your question, which was when will the trial actually begin?
After Judge May's rules on severance, then some dates could be set.
I know that Jones is pushing for it to be delayed into the spring because the prosecutors gave them 22,000 FBI witness reports called 302s and there was no indexing system whatsoever and so they're trying to go through all of that and sort it and make sense of it and Jones would like some time to get that together and Tiger's making the same complaints but whenever it starts it's gonna it's going to be really a biggie and I think that
Yeah, I don't really think they give a damn about what the families of the victims think, because they're responsible for the victims.
I mean, this whole thing was brought about because the federal government allowed it to happen, or caused it to happen.
And the second is probably the more likely of the two at this point.
In fact, I can tell you absolutely that it is.
Anyway, be that as it may, I also don't see any evidence of finger pointing with Tim McVeigh
and Terry Nichols, although that could be something that develops later on down the
line.
I don't see any evidence of that happening now.
I'm bound to see lots of strange things happening with that thing.
Yeah, it gets weirder every day.
Every day it gets a little bit stranger.
We had Terry Nichols doing a small protest in the prison in Inglewood because he has
a dietary condition that requires a high fiber diet and in actuality he called to the attention
of the jailers, the administrative office of the jail, that they were being ripped off
by the supplier of food to the kitchens and yet he was punished for this because the suppliers
were supposed to be supplying a certain type of whole wheat bread to the jail and they
had cheated the jail by giving him something kind of mushy and gooey and Terry brought
this to the attention of the administration and they punished him for that.
It gets nuttier and nuttier.
There's no end to the nuttiness.
It's bound to be quite a circus.
Can you imagine that, the guys in prison?
He's segregated from the other prisoners.
That's the same as solitary containment, basically.
He's going to be on trial for his life, and they're punishing him because he reported it.
This is, you know, it's amazing to me.
I don't know where they find these people that take care of all this stuff.
They're crazy.
At least that's what it seems like.
Not all of them.
Some of them are decent ordinary people, I imagine, but you wouldn't know it from all the stuff that comes out of these things.
Well, God bless you, Michel.
I hope the sale of the book goes well and wakes up lots of people.
Well, thank you, John, and give my love to Irene.
I will, and you did get my reply to your email.
I did indeed, and we will talk about that when I get back.
Alright.
Thanks.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Thank you for calling, John.
Thanks.
520-333-4578 is the number.
Well, where do we go from here?
Let me think just a minute.
VAMP.
Where are you, well, I was going to ask, where You're just beginning to, I don't know if you've actually written anything on Volume 2, I think that you probably have, but you're really in the process of laying out all the information and putting it in some kind of logical sequence so that you can assemble Volume 2 and put it together and make it work.
We've all learned an awful lot about publishing a book from this experience.
Yeah with regard to putting together volume two my husband and I sat down quite some time ago after the manuscript was completed for volume one but before the editing had been completed and it occurred to me I guess one of the times I was on your show and I had to go back through the files and you were going to ask me what had occurred the previous six months and I was like oh no.
So I went through the files and it occurred to me that I had forgotten more stuff about
this bombing than most people will probably ever even know.
And it was just a real moment of enlightenment, if you will, to me.
And so my husband and I sat down and just began listing the characters in this drama.
And we ended up with about, well, let's see, three columns of 25 and then some little scribble
in the corner, so probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 75 or 80 people involved in
this thing to one degree or another who have played through the scene and some of them
have played out into non-entity land now.
But we're going to have to deal with all of these different people.
Particularly the John Doe 2's who were stopped and then released and the one who was stopped and told to hurry up and get on out.
And there's a color photograph of him and the Daily Oklahoman and he's the only one I've seen who really is a dead ringer for John Doe 2.
And he was stopped and they just, I mean he was really guilty of things, of speeding and all that sort of stuff and they just said you better hurry up on out of here.
And he was heading for Arkansas.
And so he did.
He did.
And it was never heard from again.
He headed right on out.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Uh, yes.
Can I change the subject just for one second?
Uh, sorry.
Good night.
Nope.
You cannot change the subject.
You don't know how hard it is to get her in studio here where she can take your calls.
I gotta play that little game.
So anyway, if nobody calls, we'll continue talking about this investigation and our findings.
If somebody calls, we'll stay on the subject because we're not going to change it.
You know, in the beginning of this investigation, I've been doing an awful lot of reminiscing and counting and looking at things and going over what we've accumulated.
A lot of people really don't realize the quality of our work and the dedication of the people that we have.
Just in the first 30 days after the bombing, over 1,000 pieces of paper making up reports were sent to me by you and your people.
I bet you weren't even aware of how many pages that you had sent in during that.
And that's just the first 30 days.
During the entire course of the investigation, I can't even count it.
I mean, there are probably close to 25,000 pieces of paper connected with this investigation so far.
That's really not a far-fetched estimate because I have copies of everything.
Of course, there's security copies of everything and disk copies of everything.
These documents are scattered all over the country so that the information that's been Not just about what happened, but also about what didn't happen, because that's another puzzle we're putting together on this.
That information will never be lost, no matter what occurs.
But yeah, 25,000 pages of paper, it might even be more than that.
But I've got a huge, huge accumulated boxes and briefcases and all kinds of stuff on this.
And that doesn't even take into account the actual documentation in hard copy that we've
collected from people making statements or the newspaper articles or publications or
transcripts of appearances on television by people vital to the investigation.
This is Mike from Florida.
This might be a peculiar question.
I have a truck driver friend.
He can read.
of critical information and media reports and everything else.
The amount of information we have collected is staggering.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes, good evening.
This is Mike from Florida.
This might be a peculiar question.
I have a truck driver friend.
He can read.
He's a good Cuban Hispanic person.
Are you having any plans to put this in like a cassette form, the book?
I would love for it to be on like books for the blind because there are some people that I know that work and do really good work and help us out who have similar problems with either being blind or having some sort of visual impairment.
I don't know that any plan has been made to do that.
But I have the capabilities of reading the entire book into cassette to produce that and have studio capabilities to do that.
If there was a demand for it, we could certainly talk about that.
We also have a company that specializes in producing books on audio tape.
I'll keep calling and I'll keep taping.
I love your program.
voicemail and they are interested not only in this book but in Behold the Pale Horse.
So I'll be talking to them within the next few days and I don't know if anything is going
to develop.
I can't promise you anything but I can just tell you that someone is interested in doing
it.
I'll keep calling and I'll keep taping.
I love your program.
You're a godsend to this country.
And Ms. Shomore, you take care and God will protect you, believe me.
Well thank you Mike and stay in touch about that because I do want this book to be available to everyone whether they can actually read the pages on the page or not.
You know the visually impaired do an awful lot of good for us and they can go places where we can't go and they hear things that we will never hear and it works to their benefit so I'm very very interested in that occurring.
We placed our order Friday, or at least the letter got out of the house Friday for a copy of the book.
But like I said, this truck driver friend of mine, he puts in probably 16 hours a day.
He just has no time to read.
Right.
Besides working on his own rig on the weekends, he just doesn't have the time.
And he asked me if, you know, even if it was two or three times as much, he'd be willing to pay it if it became available.
Well, we'll let you know.
Thank you for calling.
520-333-4578 is the number.
Darling, you know, in this last, you know, the last conference we had, we really didn't talk too much about the investigation.
It was really a training session on how to conduct an investigation, which was, which was quite enlightening for those members of the intelligence service in Kanji who attended.
And I just wanted to ask you, what do you think is the greatest quality or trait that someone should have in order to be able to do this and do it well without falling to pieces under the strain?
Because it is a terrific strain.
And we've had several conversations by telephone when you really just needed some moral support
and somebody to listen to some of the problems that you were having so that you could get
it off your chest and be able to go back to work.
But you're a strong woman and you have borne up under some tremendous pressures and dangers
and a lot of other things.
What kind of advice would you give someone who was considering supervising any kind of
investigation on this kind of a scale that would help them get through it?
Well, I think first and foremost a person would have to have real strong personal spiritual
convictions or they won't survive the experience.
You've got to be on talking terms with the God of your choice or you won't make it through this.
More materialistic, secular terms.
You need to be stubborn and suspicious.
And as she puts it to me so often, opinionated.
Yeah, opinionated.
You just got to never give up on anything.
Yeah.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
I've heard that the judge in the bombing trial, the McVeigh trial, It's issued in order that there will be no reference made to FBI involvement during the trial.
Is that true?
I have heard no such rumor.
Where did you hear this?
Uh, I heard it from some fairly credible source, but it doesn't come to me right now, uh, who it was.
Okay, I... I can't imagine that that would be the case because the entire thrust of the prosecution's case against the defendants rests on FBI reports.
Well, how can a man defend himself if he's not allowed to speak the truth against a government that has obviously been lying?
It is not intended that these men be allowed to defend themselves.
It is intended that they be sacrificed.
Well, that's not going to satisfy public opinion if they don't have a trial that they can believe in is settling the issue.
The public opinion will be controlled by the media and the people who are looking into this, like we are, like you are, that haven't answered questions.
We are not what I would call the majority opinion.
Well, we won't go away either, I don't think.
No, no, we're not going to go away.
You can bet on that.
Thank you for your call.
Thank you.
Well, Michelle, I want to thank you for being my guest tonight and thank you for your perseverance through the last two hours.
It's been fun.
And your wealth of information and your willingness to sit here and share it with our listening audience.
And with that, ladies and gentlemen, good night.
Good night.
And God bless each and every single one of you.
And don't forget, ladies and gentlemen, stay tuned.
Immediately following the hour of the time is the debut of Quest for Help with Michael Cottingham.
and I know you're going to love it.
I know you're going to love it.
I've been watching you for ages Like a phone without a mask
Shaking the tide of destiny Between the beauty and the bliss
I have a life now I have a dream
I have an agony free Happy birthday to me
Happy birthday to me Happy birthday to me
Happy birthday to me This is the Voice of Freedom.
This is the Voice of Freedom.
so so
you're listening to the worldwide freedom radio network You're listening to the Worldwide Freedom Radio Network.
This is a radio program for the Worldwide Freedom Radio Network.
This program is brought to you by the Worldwide Freedom Radio Network.
This program is a part of the Worldwide Freedom Radio Network.
Well, we finally made it.
We are on the Worldwide Freedom Radio Network, the Voice of Freedom, and we're very, very glad to be here and to be part of this endeavor.
I really, truly believe that This is going to be the most important platform of free speech that one could possibly hope for and one could possibly have access to.
This is very exciting to be part of this network and to actually be on the ground floor of the network so to speak.
To be here in the beginning of this network.
This is the magic day for us, October 1st and Quest for Health is a show that will try to bring you good herbal information, alternative health information, survival information, self-sufficiency information, many different kinds of information and ideas that could possibly help to improve your life.
To prepare you for today and for tomorrow.
Tomorrow is the scariest prospect of all because none of us truly know what is going to happen tomorrow and we should be prepared for it.
We should be more self-sufficient and more ready to deal with the problems that will arise and in the meantime the information that I'll be giving out You can improve your life now, today, by building your self-confidence and your self-sufficient outlook towards things and help you to actually improve your health and your lifestyle.
This is the basic goal of Quest for Health is to actually make the listeners, or to help make the listeners, More educated in these topics that I'm qualified to talk about.
And hopefully as time progresses and the broadcast will bring in more people with specific skills.
I know many people who can help teach through the radio and who can actually Bring interesting and unique ideas to the attention of the listeners out there.
I know people who make homes from straw bale constructions.
I know people who are qualified survival experts who can actually truly live in the wilderness and who can truly live in the forest for days at a time and find the things that they need to live right around them.
I know many health care practitioners who have different alternative ideas and different procedures for improving your health.
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