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April 15, 1993 - Bill Cooper
59:34
Interview with Gary Hunt- WACO #2
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Light hour of the hour, lazy hour of the time.
However, the ants are not good at working with these pieces of metal as well. It seems it's not working.
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The Siege continues in Waco, Texas.
A small group of men and women trapped under siege by government forces in a church known as Branch Davidian stand upon principle protecting their rights under the first article of the Constitution of the United States of America and the second article in amendment to that document.
They are fighting the second battle of the second American Revolution.
Make no mistake about it, folks, we are at war, and you may be next.
Gary Hunt, welcome back to the Hour of the Times.
Two weeks ago we did a show together and I just re-ran that this Monday night on WNRO, or WRNO, which is it here.
Let me see.
Put radio station.
WRNO.
Sorry folks, and I'm sorry WRNO, but changing radio stations has got me a little bit confused as well as the rest of you who are trying to keep up and listen to this show.
Your show was rerun on Monday night, and it's now Thursday night, and the last time we talked was just a little over two weeks ago.
What's happened in Waco, Texas since then, Gary?
Well, very little has really happened.
It's been a lot slower than it was at first.
They have encircled the complex with concertina wire.
I guess some of the speculation down here is if there are any convictions that they're Uh, credit to TimeSurf when they come out.
They still don't acknowledge that they're under arrest even though they are entrapped by the metal wire.
There was an event the other day that caused a little excitement.
That was when they were allowed to come out and light some incense outside.
It was described initially as a smoke bomb, but it was some incense that was lit by Dave C. Snyder.
Well, in my conversation with Rita Riddle, several things emerged.
a little bit more about the Brasovian membership.
I think you had Rita Riddle on last night and Doug was speaking with her quite a bit.
She's a very interesting, very intelligent lady, as have all the people that I have been able to talk to
that are members of the Brasovian church.
Well, in my conversation with Rita Riddle, several things emerged, Gary,
and maybe you can make a few comments on this.
One, that she didn't sound like she was crazy to me.
She said that at no time was she or anyone else held hostage, that there was no child molestation, there was no promiscuity amongst any of the members of the church, including David Koresh.
She stated that she never saw or knew of or heard of anyone practicing anything that could even be remotely construed as illegal activity during the The whole time that she was with the church.
And several other things that completely contradict what the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have been putting out at their news conference.
She also stated that she's being held as a material witness, of course against her will, as a prisoner in a Salvation Army facility who is under
contract and receiving funds from the federal government, which is another church functioning as a prison.
And I found all these things eye-opening, shocking, revealing, totally contradicting what the government has
put out.
Can you comment on these things?
Well, the indications I have from the people in the church is they are practicing a religion as most people in this
country do.
It is very similar to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which is a large organization that I've seen in virtually every city I've ever been or lived in.
These people in the Pashto-Davidian sect might feel that the end times, as they call them, are coming a little sooner than the Seventh-day Adventist might.
And I recall from the early part of this century, It actually occurs several times each century with several different religious groups, some of which end up totally disappearing when they find out that the day the world was supposed to end, it doesn't end.
Some of them go back and look in the scriptures and find a reinterpretation and continue going.
But the point is, all this is harmless.
I mean, they're not hurting anyone.
And under our Constitution, they have a right to worship at the altar of their choice and believe whatever they want.
And expecting me, in times to be near, certainly isn't breaking the law and hasn't hurt anyone else.
Would you agree with that?
Well, I see no harm coming to anybody as a result of their actions or activities.
In fact, one of the ladies I met, Janet McBean, was in Elyburn, California, home.
She was a student in college out there and she was also working and is very productive in society.
A number of the people in the Waco church had jobs in the community
and performed quite well in those jobs.
They had a good reputation with the people I've spoken with in the community that dealt with them.
The only people in the community that seem to have an objection to the Branch Davidians
are those that did not know them before the zits occurred on February 28th.
Well, we find that all across the country.
I was watching Jay Leno the other night and he was making cracks about David Koresh stating that he's Jesus Christ and talking to Rita last night and to many other people that I've talked to in the Waco area.
Many of whom do not care for Branch Davidian, do not believe in the things that the church believes in, but they have all stated unequivocally that David Koresh has never said that he's Jesus Christ.
Have you ever found anyone that's ever admitted that That they've ever heard David Kretsch state that he's Jesus Christ?
Well, the only ones that I have heard admit that they have heard David Kretsch say that he is Jesus Christ are the BATF and the FBI representatives at the press conference.
And they don't even... The people I've spoken to in the... The people in the complex that I've heard and the ones I've spoken to do feel that David Kretsch is the Messiah.
Just like Catholics see the Pope as the person who is big for God.
But has he ever stated that he's the Messiah?
Only if I believe the FBI and ATF and I have a lot of trouble doing that.
And you know something, what difference would it make if he did?
It still wouldn't be hurting anyone.
Why did he come out with these statements that are obviously false?
And I've heard from Rita that while they said initially that David Koresh was the one they were after, they're really after somebody else named Paul.
I've heard from Rita that while they said initially that David Koresh was the one that
they were after, they're really after somebody else named Paul.
Is that true?
Well, Paul Pata, they have accused of trying to get back in the complex.
Now here comes a very confusing story.
Delroy Nash was arrested early in March.
He was captured with a very dangerous weapon.
It was a .22 caliber pistol made by Jennings.
Mike Schroeder at the same time was killed and another individual escaped and was later identified as Bobby Kendrick who has since been arrested and charged.
I think the charge that he and Jeff Delroy Nash have against them is attempted murder of federal agents.
Because they tried to get into the compound, that's construed as attempted murder of federal agents?
That is the charge brought against them, whether they ever fired a shot or not, is unknown.
Bob Kendrick had a weapon apparently, but it has never been discharged.
There's no reason to believe that the weapon that Delroy Nash had, now Delroy Nash is also Norman Allen, he's got an alias apparently, but there's no indication that his weapon was discharged.
Now Mike Schroeder was the body that was found on the fifth three days later.
Apparently they didn't realize they'd shot him when they captured Delroy Nash.
But they had said that three people had attempted to enter the compound.
In California they indicated to a lady out there in an interview that they were after Paul Fada because he tried to gain entry to the compound at that same time.
So Paul Fada was interviewed on Street Stories and was not in Waco or in this area at the time and did not make any claims that he was here.
Now Paul Fada apparently does have a firearm license and was lawfully purchasing or selling In fact, apparently the vast dividends due by large
quantities of military mail ready to eat cases do so that gun shows quite frequently as a
means of supporting the terrorist.
Well, this is what Rita revealed last night, was that Paul was the one who has the federal
firearms license and would attend gun shows and buy guns and MREs and many other things
and turn them around and go to another gun show and sell them at a profit.
And of course it made money for him and for the church.
But she said she didn't know of anyone else who was engaging in these activities.
She said David Koresh was not.
She said there was maybe three or four other of the men who would go to the gun shows with Paul.
But there was no huge stockpile of weapons.
There was no .50 caliber machine guns.
There were none of these things and that every single weapon that was owned by members of
Branch Davidian were legal weapons and were legally purchased and that the church itself
owned no weapons whatsoever.
Does this conform to what you've found out?
Yes, it does.
In fact, from what I understand, Paul Potter was very meticulous in his record-keeping.
When he came back to the complex, he would immediately record any purchases.
Well, that's required with someone who has a federal firearms license.
Yes.
And we would expect him to do that, and now you're telling us that that's exactly what he was doing, was conforming to the law.
Yes, my understanding, and I have yet to find any violations of the law on the part of the Including the defense of their building.
So, Gary, what is this all about?
Why are people dead laying in the cold, cold ground and six known dead adults still in that church who haven't had the benefit of a decent burial?
What is this all about?
Well, let me correct one thing.
Two have been buried.
One was Paul Schroeder.
The six dead, two were killed outside the complex.
One was Paul Schroeder who was left on the fence.
Now remember the FBI and ATF claimed that they were very discriminating in picking your targets, but for some reason they decided to leave Paul Schroeder on the fence for three days.
Peter Jett, he currently has subsequently been buried by the federal forces.
Peter Jett was on top of that large tower, generally you'll see it off to the left.
And he's the one that they brought down?
He was brought down, I'm not sure how he was brought down, but his body was left exposed for seven days, and we found this clearly visible in some of the videos laying on top of the tower for that entire time.
Now remember, these... David Koresh negotiated a ceasefire so that the killing would stop, and that the ATF could take out their dead and wound it.
Apparently, I've heard that there was an understanding as well that the ATF would remove Peter Jeff's body because it was outside of the combust bumper on the water tower.
They never removed it.
It was later done either by the crash convenience or by helicopter.
I don't have a clear story on that yet.
But the ATF and FBI, the people who wanted humanity or humane treatment for their people, So then there's four inside that are dead that have not received a decent burial?
Peter Jim's body to remain exposed to the weather for seven days.
It was the body that we'd seen buried.
We've decided to come.
So then there's four inside that are dead that have not received a decent burial.
My understanding is there are four inside.
Whether they have been buried inside or not, I do not know.
And these are adults?
I'm not sure.
I have been led to believe that one of them is a child, a two-year-old child that was killed, but there's no way to verify that.
The FBI knows.
They will not release any information.
According to Rita, all six of the dead that have been admitted so far are adults, and she absolutely refused to tell me if any children had been killed.
And this disturbed me a little bit, simply because I couldn't understand If children had been killed, this would do more to rally Americans behind them than anything else, but maybe she has a good reason for not disclosing that.
I don't know, and I'm certainly not going to judge her for that.
I know she has her reasons.
But we have heard that David Koresh's daughter was killed, and that one other girl was killed.
What do you know about that?
Well, there has been talk going around about a six-year-old girl who was killed.
I have no reason to believe that there's any truth to that at all.
The people that have been spreading that claim that there is a video available, but they have not produced the video.
They have also claimed that the Morse Code message that came out had seven short messages in it.
However, we have yet to be able to determined that's true even though I viewed portions of the
video of the Morse code.
In fact, I understand from people that were in the complex that it was just an experiment
to see if the light could be seen that no message was sent.
We have no affidavit by somebody qualified to read that Morse code.
So, again, I think we have a rumor as we did with the six-year-old girl.
Well, it may be a rumor, but nobody can prove that the six-year-old girl wasn't killed, can they?
Well, speaking with people that were in the complex, they have not denied that perhaps one child was killed,
but they have denied that more than one has been killed.
Okay, now a lot of people are going to be very upset and confused about this.
Can you tell us why they would refuse to acknowledge whether children were killed or not?
I'd like to get this issue out of the way because I know a lot of people out there, Would be as disturbed as I would if someone said that they could not tell us if there were children killed or not.
And I understand that you may have knowledge of some reason why they may have done this.
Well, as far as the Branch Davidians, they have come out not divulging who has been killed.
They do not want families to worry based on rumor.
they had decided before they came out, I think it was probably David's instruction, that
until the FBI will officially acknowledge it, that they should not speak of what happened
inside, that is not common knowledge. And common knowledge again would be Schroeder
and Jentz. Now the FBI and the press conferences have taken the same position. They say that
everything David says is a lie. I'm inclined not to believe that because I've found the
same characteristics brought with lies by the FBI and the ATF. Well so far the weight
of truth tends to be on the side of David Koresh.
I don't know if David Koresh has told any lies or not, but one thing that we have definitely ascertained is that almost everything that the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms has told the public is a lie.
Well, we have a lot of situations.
If we take any one subject, we've heard three or four stories about it or two.
And they just changed another story.
One of them is bound to be true.
We're just not sure which one the truth is.
Well, maybe none of them are the truth yet.
I was talking to my father today, who lives in Texas, and he told me that they just reversed their story on another point.
I forget exactly what it was.
He said they just changed their story on the latest thing that they were telling.
Well they did make a statement Monday that I thought was interesting and that was the only person, this is Bob Rex, the only person who is important to this whole scenario is David Koresh.
If somebody had the magic formula or the magic words that would cause David Koresh to come out, certainly we would be seeking that.
David Koresh, you remember, on March 9th asked me to come in to help find a peaceful solution.
The FBI continues to ignore the fact that the only time that David Koresh has had an opportunity to get out directly to the public a message regarding seeking a peaceful solution was an invitation for me to come in the complex.
The FBI, I forget, doesn't exist.
Well, when they say that David Koresh is certainly the key to all of this, that is just an extension, and they have to stick to that story, because according to them, David Koresh is holding all of those people hostage, and they are not free to leave or come out unless he lets them go.
So that has to be their position.
Now, we know that that's a lie because David Koresh couldn't possibly be holding those people hostage because he couldn't possibly have gone without sleep for this amount of time.
I think we also know that from the people who have come out because they've made it very clear to me.
That's correct.
Some think that they made the wrong decision in leaving.
That's exactly what Rita said.
She said that if she had known What she knows now, she would not have come out.
And she said that in no time was she or anyone else ever held hostage.
And the whole thing is ludicrous in the face of it, that the FBI and the BATF could still be trying to tell the world that these people are being held hostage by David Koresh, when we know that David Koresh has to sleep, and without somebody else to stand guard while he's sleeping, their whole story just falls to pieces.
Uh, and there isn't anybody else.
It might have been necessary for them to justify bringing down their hostage negotiation team, which is a counter-terrorism team.
There are no terrorists in the Vance Vivian complex, so they can blame the hostage situation.
But as I fit, the only hostages are the, uh, ninety-some people inside the complex being held hostage by federal authorities.
Well, I got news for you, Gary.
Our information from Washington, D.C.
is that the entire EATF crew that's there is an anti-terrorist assault team.
Well, that's probably true as well.
What is the situation with the local people there?
Don't they understand that this is not helping Waco or the entire state of Texas?
On the contrary, Waco a few weeks ago had a proclamation honoring the BATF for bringing all the money into town.
You're kidding.
Now last Sunday, the city of Waco... Wait a minute, say that again.
I want everybody to hear that.
I want everybody in the world that listens to this broadcast to hear what the wonderful, sterling, upright citizens of Waco, Texas did.
The Citizens of Waco a few, two or three weeks ago had a proclamation at one day, and I'm not sure which day it was.
I will try and get that information and get it to you on another program.
But they did, I did see the proclamation, and they were honoring the VATF for all the business they brought to town.
Let's wipe out a church.
Let's kill a bunch of people so that Waco, Texas can have some more money in its bank accounts.
Boy, that's wonderful.
I suppose we'll have many Chambers of Commerce setting up a new committee with the church to wipe out the Spring Business Account.
My God.
Welcome to the New World Order, folks.
If this is any indication of what's to come, and if this is any indication of the attitude of the American people in a small American town, especially in the state of Texas, a small town, My God, most small towns are bastions of freedom and supporters of the Constitution.
Why in the world is Waco different from most other small towns in that regard?
Well, I'm not so sure that it would be.
I think that we're dealing with a situation similar to 220 years ago where less than 5% of the people really care about what form of government we have.
The rest are satisfied with their six-pack and their movie.
And they're not aware, they accept government as qualified to tell them how to lead their lives.
They're not the type of individual that made this country great and strong.
They're the type of people that are complacent as long as they're given what they want in life.
In other words, what you're saying is basically the citizens of Waco aren't people, they're sheeple.
people and they're typical of what we would find in probably a majority in most cities in this country.
Well, that's...
I'll tell you one more situation that occurred out here.
Janet McDean, when she got out from California, we drove around...
Well, let's tell our listeners who she is first because they have no idea what you're talking about.
Janet McDean was the...
Well, her brother is in the complex now, but she was defeated by the VATF to come out and testify before the
grand jury.
She testified on Tuesday.
I'm not... We won't know the results of that testimony.
Is this a federal grand jury, Gary?
This is a federal grand jury.
Okay, go ahead.
We drove out towards the complex on Sunday, on Easter Sunday.
There's an area that we've called Observation Hill.
It is about six miles distant from the complex, but it's just up the hill on 340 Loop from the Long-to-Market Road
2491, which is the primary checkpoint to the complex area.
It is the one that the press goes in, Satellite City.
All the weekends prior to this, there have been a number of people up there.
It would be in the dozens, but there were virtually hundreds.
There were actually dozens of different people selling t-shirts.
Now, I noticed one predominant theme of the t-shirts is that they are pro-BATF.
Prior to that, there were anti-BATF or pro-David Koresh t-shirts.
We didn't understand this, but virtually every person up there selling shirts was anti-David Koresh.
It reminded me of the Money Changes story in the Bible, the Money Changes in the Temple almost.
As we left and went back towards Del Nid, which is the town that the ATF is up in, off to the side of the road about a half a mile away, there was a small group of people filling t-shirts in.
We did not stop to see them, but they had a large sign up that said Rood Awakening.
To me, that sounds like people that are selling pro-David Kors t-shirts and I speculate that they were not allowed to sell the t-shirts on the Hill where everybody else goes.
Well, I see it another way.
Probably pro-freedom, pro-Constitution, pro-rights, pro-everything this country was founded upon.
I don't think anybody knows enough to be pro-Koresh or pro-BATF.
I think this thing is being manipulated at the highest levels.
And I think that there's a lot of complicity with the citizens and the local officials in Waco, Texas.
And I think that people are basically either for law and order, they're believing what the authorities tell them, and they really think that these people are a bunch of criminals that deserve to die.
Are they understand the real threat to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
And they're trying to get that message out.
I doubt if there's anybody that's really pro-VATF or pro-Koresh because I doubt if anybody outside of the VATF or outside of Branch Davidian really understands and knows what's going on enough to be pro or con either one of those.
Uh, against the BATF.
What I'm against is what they're doing is destroying the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Uh, and I'm, and I know that you feel that way also.
Don't go away, folks.
We've got to take a break.
We'll be right back after this very short pause.
Where, uh, there is more controversy in.
Well, it won't work, and if you're listening on this line, BATF or FBI or anybody else, it's not going to work.
The truth is going to get out, and you're going to answer for your actions.
I can guarantee it.
There's a lot of other patriots in this country who are going to make sure that everybody in the world, not just in America, finds out what the truth is.
Are we still recording?
Yeah, we're still recording, but we've got to take a break now, Gary.
Just hang on, and we'll get right back to you.
Don't go away, folks.
We'll be right back after this very short pause.
Well, we're back, folks.
That didn't take long, and we are still talking to Gary Hunt in Waco, Texas.
Before we were so rudely interrupted, Gary, you were trying to tell us something.
Why don't you continue along those lines?
Well, in the long term, we've seen some changes in the administration of the control of the complex.
Initially, there was a BATF operation.
Almost immediately, the FBI came in as senior.
And it wasn't until about two weeks ago that the Texas Rangers were identified as the investigators for this occurrence out here.
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against the BATF. What I'm against is what they're doing that's destroying the Constitution
and the Bill of Rights. And I know that you feel that way also. And I know that many other
patriots in this country feel that way. We're not against those men who are out there in
the BATF who are taking orders from somebody else who's taking orders from somebody else
because I think a lot of them know by now that they've done the wrong thing and they're
kind of wishing that they hadn't done it. And they're probably trying to figure out
a way to get out of it and still maintain some kind of self-respect and respect of the
American people. But I don't think that's going to happen now, do you?
No. It may be occurring slowly. We've had, if we look at...
Ladies and gentlemen, the phone line has just been cut off.
The Waco, Texas.
If you'll hold on, we're going to try to reconnect.
You heard it right there, they shut us off.
And this is not unusual when we're trying to do this kind of thing.
Well, we've dialed the number.
Gary's staying at the, uh... Uh, here we go.
Just hold on, folks.
Who do we have?
We were cut off. Yeah, well, this is not unusual in with the police.
With my radio show, we talk to a lot of controversial people about a lot of controversial things, and this happens quite frequently.
In fact, sometimes when I'm talking to somebody about sensitive subjects, it happens every time we connect.
Every time we get on to a subject that's particularly sensitive, and we were just talking about the BATF and the FBI, and I'm sure because of your activities down there representing us, that they're probably tapping into your phone.
Have you had any indication of that?
It wasn't nearly as frequent.
It didn't occur the first week or so I was here, and then it began occurring and got more and more frequent, and it does seem to occur more often in conversations where There is more controversy yet, but it won't work.
And if you're listening on this line, DATF or FBI or anybody else, it's not going to work.
The truth is going to get out and you're going to answer for your actions.
I can guarantee it.
And there's a lot of other patriots in this country who are going to make sure that everybody in the world, not just in America, finds out what the truth is.
Before we were so rudely interrupted, Gary, you were trying to tell us something.
Why don't you continue along those lines?
Well, in the long term, we've seen some changes in the administration of the control of the complex.
Initially, it was a BATF operation.
Almost immediately, the FBI came in as senior, and it wasn't until about two weeks ago that Texas Rangers were identified as the investigators for this occurrence out here.
There was a lot of effort by a lot of patriots to bring to the attention of the public that it would be wrong to let the fox guard the chicken house.
And so the Texas Rangers have been given the overall investigative responsibility on this.
They did begin their investigation.
And as shortly after the investigation began, there was a little bit of a row between the FBI, the ATF, and the Texas Rangers.
That resolved itself within a few days.
The FBI has since begun distancing themselves from the ATF.
First, in the press conferences, we saw that the ATF was being asked very few questions.
They were jokingly thanking The press were throwing them a bone when they were asked a question.
Later they separated the press conference, the FBI first and then ATF so the ATF could get their more bones or more questions from their way.
With that separation something interesting occurred.
The FBI was dealing primarily with current issues and ATF was dealing with issues of the original assault.
At that point in the press I had a different mindset when the ATF came up on the podium and began asking more critical questions of the ATF regarding, for example, the three people that walked in the window.
Did they die inside?
What really happened there?
Very pointed questions.
You mean the press is beginning to ask real questions now?
They were beginning to ask some real questions.
And then all of a sudden for some reason David Troy came out last Friday or Saturday and said this is our last press conference.
Now here's the guy that was wanting to have more questions asked of him.
All of a sudden he gets flooded with questions and decides there's nothing more to say and discontinues the BATF portion of the press conference.
So the BATF is not now holding any more press conferences because the questions are just too hot for them to answer or is it for some other reason?
Well, they're too hot to answer, and also I don't think that they have a very competent system.
I don't think they can remember what their last lie was.
Well, we're finding that out, aren't we?
I mean, if you just go back and review the tapes of the 6 o'clock news and the local news and read what's been printed in the newspaper, you'll see that everything that they said, they've ultimately reversed and come up with sometimes two or three stories in place of their original story.
I'll point out that you're very limited in what you have access to.
That's true.
That's why we have to rely upon people like you and whoever else we can get a hold of in Waco, Texas that's right there that really knows what's happening.
We'll be obtaining a complete set of videos of all the press conferences and what you generally, what I've been able to discern that you've been able to read out there in the press is limited to just certain questions where numerous questions are asked.
Most often the most interesting questions are not reported by the normal press.
But at any rate, it seems that the FBI is attempting to distance itself from the ATF.
And I think, quite frankly, their reason is justified that they don't want to be accused of cover-up as truth begins to expose itself.
Gary, are you going to be able to give us a copy of those so that I can air the discrepancies and the contradictions?
As a show, or a series of shows, if it turns out to be that long.
Well, I'm not sure what the copyright laws are on those, but I will be glad to provide you with that.
Fantastic.
We're not concerned about... Let me tell you something.
On this show, we're concerned with one thing, the truth.
And I'm willing to go to jail to get the truth out.
In fact, I'm willing to die to get the truth out and save this nation.
And I'm not worried about copyright whatsoever on breaking news.
In fact, the law says that breaking news is exempt from copyright, so that settles that anyway.
Well, it would seem if the FBI is attempting to provide this information to the public, that it should be public domain as well.
Well, that's true.
It is.
Breaking news, hot news, is public domain for a certain period of time.
After that, then the tapes and things belong to whoever made them.
But at the time of breaking news, breaking news is not protected by copyright, period.
I should be able to get those out to you within a couple of days.
Fantastic.
Because we'll certainly air them and we will air the dirty laundry in front of the world, I can guarantee you.
By the way, Gary, just so our listening audience will know, Who are you down there representing?
Well, I'm representing the Outpost of Freedom, which is my newspaper published in Florida.
I'm representing the American Patriot Facts Network, which is about as new as my newspaper.
Both of them began in early February, and because of Waco, have stepped into one of the hottest things going.
The ACFN has provided us a means of communication It's absolutely new to the Patriot community.
We've got overnight delivery of my press releases every day to thousands of people across the country, including Hillary and Bill Clinton, Sessions, Higgins, Lloyd Bentsen, and Richards, the Governor of Texas, the Texas Rangers, are receiving our faxes, and the ATF compound, or the headquarters here, is receiving them.
As well as yourself and many of the media around the country and a lot of private individuals who re-disseminate the information so we may be reaching tens of thousands.
The newest person I represent and I'm very proud to represent is the Citizens Agency Joint Intelligence, the PAJI News Service and also the Hour of the Time.
That is your organization and I feel honored to be affiliated with you.
Well, thank you, Gary.
And of course, you have been fully accredited with press credentials from us.
And also, I'd like to point out that the American Patriots Facts Network has made me an advisor to their organization.
And of course, we get all the facts and we'll be using those on our program from here on out.
There are a lot of people in this country who are doing a lot of things to help save this country, save the Constitution.
and make people aware of what's happening.
A lot of people tell me when I travel around this country on my lectures and when I just
meet people and they know who I am, they tell me, you know, I feel so helpless.
There's nothing that I can do.
I'm just one lonely person and I don't have any power and I don't have any money.
But Gary, you don't have any power and you don't have any money and I don't have any
power and I don't have any money and I don't know anybody who is working in this that has
got rich you.
Well, there are a few that have gotten rich that profess to be patriots, but I think the indicator of a patriot nowadays, because we are so limited in our means, are those that are willing to put in their sweat, their blood, their tears into getting a message out to America.
I've managed to stay here in Waco from contributions.
I have a check on the loan here, one dollar, which was apparently all this lady could afford.
But from what I've seen, the patriots that constantly circulate their money back into the movement are the ones that are helping pull these pieces together.
Ken Varden, I think, is the best example.
He's just put his heart and soul every night into getting out hundreds of faxes.
But it's the love of country that is driving us.
It's not a love of money.
That's true.
It's a love of country.
It's a love of freedom.
It's an understanding of what's really happening.
And what's really happening is we're fixing to go backward in the evolution of human society.
from the point where man finally, in all its striving throughout history, finally became free when this country was created and our Constitution and Bill of Rights were written and made the supreme law of the land, and we stood as sovereign kings in our own right with the government as our servant.
Now we're ready to give all that up and go backwards and become slaves again, with the government owning us as the king used to own us.
As the king always, wherever there's a king, owns his subjects.
Interestingly, and I'm sure you're aware of this, the United States Supreme Court, and I don't have the slide in front of me, but I'm sure a lot of the patriots know what the Supreme Court said, that the United States is a metaphor, that there are three definitions.
Two of those definitions were sovereign.
The first one is the president as the face of the world to represent the 50 states.
Second is the U.S.
government, which is sovereign to Washington, D.C., the territories, the ceded land.
And the third one, which is not sovereign, is the 50 states united because that's sovereignized with the individuals.
We know, many of us know, that that third United States of America It still exists in this country, but most people have voluntarily or involuntarily joined the second one, which is the sovereign U.S.
government, which is a socialized government.
That's correct.
It resides within the boundaries of the Federal District of Columbia, and the territories are property ceded and deeded to the United States of America, residing within the Federal District of Columbia, and not the states or the people.
That's correct.
Anyone who voluntarily puts themselves under the jurisdiction of the federal government residing within the boundaries of Washington D.C.
has no constitutional rights.
The right that God gave us gives us the government.
That's correct.
Anyone who voluntarily puts themselves under the jurisdiction of the federal government
residing within the boundaries of Washington, D.C., has no constitutional rights.
And that is in the Constitution, plain and simple.
Our forefathers gave us everything that we needed to succeed and everything we needed
to fail.
It was up to us to know the difference and act responsibly and maintain our sovereignty
in the face of human nature.
And the clause in the Constitution that enables us to fail is, of course, the right to contract.
And whenever the state gives us benefits, and we accept those benefits, and by state I mean the state as defined as the Federal District of Columbia, the United States government residing within there, which Congress makes the laws for, is, when they give us benefits, we actually contract to be ruled and governed by them.
Instead of being a sovereign citizen of our state.
Does that make sense to you Gary?
That's correct.
Isn't it human nature to want to take the easy route, to want to have somebody else provide for you, give to you, insure you a job, insure your old age, take care of your medical benefits, instead of starting out and planning and being responsible for yourself.
Well, that was one of the fears that Thomas Jefferson had when the Constitution was created.
In fact, in our history, it goes back even further.
There were two early colonies that we're all aware of, Clement Colony and Jamestown.
Both of those, when they arrived on the shores of this great nation, were socialized.
After a few years, they began failing.
They were near death in cases.
The effort, being communal in nature, It wasn't sufficient to motivate the people to produce as well as they could.
In both cases, when they converted from socialized common ownership to free ownership or free man status, each owned and reaped the rewards of his efforts, then both of those colonies succeeded and became the foundation of the concept that our Constitution was built on later.
Now you have to remember that this is the only country in the world It is founded on the basis of rights coming from God.
That's correct.
There we have something very common today, of course, the Branch Davidians.
The right to practice our religion and to recognize that the rights come from God.
And as we lose those rights, we become socialized like every other country in the world where men are put above God and are able to decide and rule and dictate our lifestyles.
Well, according to those who want to bring about the New World Order, those who belong to the secret societies and really have infiltrated all levels of our society, government, and military, they believe that there is no God, there is no Satan, There is only the working of man's mind. They believe in
the Luciferian philosophy That man was held prisoner in the Garden of Eden, and he
was set free by the gift of intellect from Lucifer through his agent Satan and that by the use of this
intellect man himself will become God It's the religion of humanism, and that's what we're seeing
being brought about and of course the biggest enemy in their eyes to to their religion is
Christianity is Orthodox Judaism is the
the Islamic religion And and they have vowed to destroy those and to establish a
religion that works in the best interest of mankind and
exchanges with the needs of man instead of conforming to a moral law handed to man from God and
and that man literally, literally is the arbiter of his own fate and because of that is at the mercy of the law of the jungle and has no rights given by God or anyone else.
Whoever has the most power has the right to rule.
Does this sound like something that conforms to what you've discovered?
Well, yes, but I go a little further.
I think they recognize that there are two classes of man, them and us.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
The illumined man is the one that will rule, and the illumined man, of course, is the elite of the secret religion of the practice of Mystery Babylon, which is the worship of the mind.
Well, I think we can equate it more to an anthill.
And the majority of the people are the ants that go out and are dropped upon by other people and the hierarchy is those that stay in the anthill and are served by the others.
Absolutely correct.
Have you ever spoken with Tommy Buckley about Treasury Gate Bill?
No, I haven't and I've refrained from that because of the Cosmos fiasco.
We investigated that and basically they were saying the same thing.
And we found out that they were a bunch of, just flat a bunch of liars.
So we're staying away from Treasury Gate so we can more thoroughly investigate the people involved and investigate the whole thing.
It's my belief that if these people really had what they say they had, and I'm not judging them at all because our investigation is not finished, it has been the experience of our research that anyone who has posed a serious threat To the ruling elite have been summarily executed within a very short period of time and these people have not been touched except you might say as a token.
Maybe, maybe to get us to believe them, I don't know.
But we're investigating, we're finding out.
But go ahead, what were you going to say?
Well, I was going to say that Tommy is working, trying to come down here to Waco next week.
He is concerned for his safety. He has a bunch of bodyguards.
But the federal lawsuit that he filed, the answer is due on Friday of this week.
That's correct.
And hopefully after that this may open up if it is legitimate.
Now what I've reviewed of it appears to be, but as you said we really don't know because there's been a lot of rumor.
That's correct.
Oh absolutely they exist.
That's correct.
Yes, it is true.
It indicates, it points directly to an elite that controls hundreds of trillions of dollars
worth of gold.
And at this point, I'm inclined to believe that that hierarchy, that group inside of
the ant hill being served by the rest of us does exist.
Oh, absolutely they exist.
There's no doubt about it.
In fact, we've proven it on this show.
I've done 18 hours of broadcasting revealing their history, who they are, how they came
about, how they were able to control the wealth of the world, and just exactly what their
plans are for the future.
It's no mystery to the listeners of this radio show, I can assure you.
It's the explanation why Americans look around, they see this country dissolving right in front of their eyes, they see things happening they never thought could ever happen in this country, and Waco is one of the best examples.
And they can't find an enemy, and it's because the enemy is their father.
Sometimes it's their brother.
Sometimes it's their mother, or their aunt, or their uncle, or their grandfather, or their grandmother, or their sister.
They're all around us, and they belong to secret societies, which really, collectively, are one political movement, and they have slowly and surely infiltrated every element of our society.
Our military and our government, and they're in complete control right now.
And the only thing that can save this country, and in fact, freedom for the world, and that's what this broadcast is all about, is for the sheeple to wake up.
People are always asking me, how can I protect my assets?
And my answer is this.
If the only thing that you care about is your assets, you're going to lose your ass, because you'll never be able to protect your assets.
Unless you can save the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which are the only things that ever allowed you to ever have any assets in the first place.
Well, I've found people willing to share their assets to keep the effort we've got going down here on Waco going.
Me too, and we've had more and more people are realizing, excuse me, what you just said, that their assets mean nothing unless we have the freedom to enjoy those just like Plymouth and Jamestown.
That's correct.
If people wanted to, well, let's back up just a little further.
You have a home, don't you?
Somewhere.
Where do you live?
I'm from Florida.
And you have a home there, right?
Yeah.
And do you work?
I am a land surveyor.
Okay, and how long have you been in Waco, Texas?
Since March 6th.
Since March 6th?
It's the 6th and it's 38 days and you haven't been home, is that correct?
I have not been home.
And you haven't been working, is that correct?
I have not.
I've tried to keep my office going by phone.
I've lost a few clients as a result of my being here.
I hope that I can recover them if and when I get back from Waco.
Well, the reason I'm asking you this is I want Americans who are more concerned about their job than they are about this country, I want them to hang their head in shame when they hear this.
They know what I've lost and what I've given up in order to do what I'm doing.
They've heard what other people who have appeared on this show have lost and what they've had to give up in order to do what they're doing all to try to save this country so that a whole bunch of assholes out there who care more about their job than they do about the country can have some assets to be concerned about.
And I want you to give an address where people can send donations to help you stay down there and to help you stay afloat while you try to give it the truth, try to bring some kind of a peaceful resolution so that there's no more loss of life, so that you can represent Kaji with the press credentials that you have and can appear on more of these shows and inform the people not only of this country but of the world.
Give us an address, Gary, where people can send donations and who they should make those donations out to.
Okay, donations.
Checks, we don't have a bank account here.
When I say we, I've got support from people who have been helping me.
So checks are almost impossible to cash, but postal money orders made out to Jerry Hunt we can cash or left blank.
Whichever you prefer.
And cash donations we receive, they can be mailed to Davidian.
D-A-B-I-B-I-A-N 12-0-1 Lake Air A-I-R Drive Number C-1-1-4 Waco, Texas 7-6-7-1-0 Well you heard it here folks and nowhere else.
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