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April 14, 1993 - Bill Cooper
57:30
Rita Riddle Interview - WACO
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We have on the line with us from Waco, Texas, one of the people, a woman, who was actually
in the church of Branch Davidian when the government agencies, the FBI, the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, attempted to kill her.
Attempted to serve a warrant and we're going to get her story as to what happened from her point of view inside the church.
Could you tell us your name, please?
Rita Riddle.
Rita Riddle.
You were at the church at the time that all of this happened.
Yes, I was.
Can you tell us what you were doing there?
Well, I met David Koresh in 1988.
I was at my home in North Carolina.
And he came to North Carolina with my brother, and my brother asked me if I wanted to Bible study, which at the time I wasn't into the Bible at all.
Matter of fact, it was probably strange in my mind.
So I told him, sure, you know, I'd listen.
So when he came, I started listening, he started opening up the stuff, and he was there several days, and then, you know, he returned to Texas.
And I could see that there was something more to what he was sharing with me than just the norm of, you know, what you get in church every week.
So, you know, this went on for a period of time, you know, I couldn't get it out of my mind, so I decided to pay him a visit in Texas, so I came out the following year at Passover.
In state for a week, of course I got more studies.
I returned back to North Carolina and I did this off and on for a couple of years before I decided, well, two years ago to finally move out here.
And when you moved out here, where is it that you actually live, Rita?
I live at Mount Carmel.
And what is Mount Carmel?
Well, it's what they're calling the town town.
Oh, I see.
When you moved out here, were you in any way influenced by anybody, or were you made to force the move, or anything like that?
I was influenced by the Word of God, and David Koresh opened it up, as he did.
Some of the speculation, the government has released statements to the news, and it's been broadcast of course all over the country on television and radio, that David Koresh claims that he's Jesus Christ.
Is that true?
No, that is not true.
Have you ever heard him say that?
No, never.
David has some credentials.
If a police officer arrests you, they show you a badge and that's their credentials as to who they are.
David's credentials are his ability to open up these seven seals, you know, and it's up to the world to see if he can do it or not.
You know, either he can do it or he can't.
Now what do you mean by the seven seals?
You have to remember we have a listening audience that does not understand a lot of the things that you're talking about.
Okay, this is true.
Okay, the seven seals that he talks about in Revelation 4 and 5, those seven seals are basically the whole Bible.
You know, people think that they're just, you know, in Revelation 4, 5, and 6, you know, where it talks about the Lamb opening up the seals.
Well, you know, it is just the whole Bible.
So you're saying that David Koresh can open up the seals, but what you're talking about in the seals is the Bible, in other words.
He can open the meaning of the Bible to the people who are willing to listen to it.
Right, and it's an irrefutable truth, and he can harmonize the process.
He's like nobody else that I have ever seen.
After he did come to North Carolina, you know, and I'm thinking, you know, well, I was looking for something wrong with what he was teaching, but I couldn't find it.
So I started going out and asking people, you know, about these fields, and they said, well, that's not for us to know.
Well, it is for us to know, and we know that now, you know, from years and years of studying.
So basically, what you do there at the Branch Davidian Church is you study the Bible, and with the help of David Koresh, according to your own explanation, the belief of Branch Davidian is that the Bible are the seven seals, and David Koresh is able to open up and explain what's in the Bible, and that's the opening of the seven seals.
So all of this stuff that the government is putting out is either misinterpreted or is an out and out lie.
It's totally bizarre.
I cannot believe this thing has gotten blown so far.
Is that the real issue, Bob?
It has gotten blown totally out of proportion.
I just, you know, it's unreal.
Can you tell me what was going on that Sunday morning?
Usually, we would be in a study.
You know, we visited daily, every day, which is twice a day.
But the night before, one of the ATF officers that lived across the street that was supposed to be in Undercuff, where David was giving studies to, and he had been there that Saturday night, prior to the raid on Sunday morning, and we had been up pretty late in the study with him.
So most people were still in their rooms studying on their own.
We weren't there as a group because like I said a lot of people were out late.
Okay and that was on Saturday night.
What did this guy do?
Well he would always come over for studies and they would give him novel studies.
Did you know that he was a BATF agent?
We didn't know that he was BATF but we thought that he was some kind of federal agent but
You know, it's all from mine.
That's the whole thing.
It doesn't matter who you are or what you are.
The Bible is for everybody.
So even though you all thought that he was some kind of a federal agent, you still welcomed him and brought him into your Bible studies, is that correct?
Definitely, yes.
So what happened then?
Well, he had brought the paper over the following morning because that's when they started running the series.
They ran a whole series in the local paper here in the Waco Tribune and Herald about the evil Messiah and it was about David.
And it was just a whole week of nothing but put down, you know, garbage about David and accusations that was made by someone named Mark Brough.
Well, let's assume that our audience hasn't heard, because we have to do that.
We don't know who's really listening, but I'll tell you that worldwide I have about 10 million listeners.
So, if you could explain a little bit more, it sure would help the people out there understand what we're talking about.
You see, all that they've heard is what the government has presented to them.
And in my own investigations and in the investigations of my organization, which is the largest civilian intelligence gathering organization in the world, we have discovered that most, if not all, of what the government is telling us about Waco, Texas is a lie.
Well, that's for sure.
Now, if we know that, and we know that the only source of information that the people listening to this broadcast has had previously has been the FBI and the BATF, Then we need you to go in a little bit more depth into explanation of what the background was.
Why were they attacking Branch Davidian in the newspaper?
This fellow named Mark Brill was a person that David taught for four years.
He was a theologian.
He went to New Bow College and he was taught by David for 4 years.
When he ran across something in the Bible that personally affected him, he told David,
he said this, it's not because I don't believe it, he said it's because I don't know whether
I want to do it or not.
So that was when he divorced himself from the group.
Then he started the allegations really heavy.
He started his child molestation, all this stuff about all these wives, how David wanted his wife,
all this crazy stuff.
So then in 1990, he called the local sheriff's department here in Waco and he really started
putting the pressure on them.
So they sent all these social workers out to investigate time after time.
Our children, they found nothing.
This went on and on and finally they just told him, look, we have investigated this thing
and we have found absolutely nothing at all.
But he just kept on, and he kept on, and he kept on.
So, we ended up, uh, having, uh, a girl that was in a custody case, uh, Sherry Jewel, she is, you know, in our group, if you want to call it a group, uh, we really don't call it that, but to let the listeners understand what's happening here.
She had a daughter.
He contacted her father in Battle Creek, Michigan and told Mrs. David Jewell that David was dangerous, that he was molesting children.
And so he had a court order when she went up for the holiday that the child, Terry, could not return to the mother, Sherry.
And so Now this was the daughter that made these allegations?
No, this was my brother.
Oh, so the daughter didn't say any of these things?
No.
Okay.
No.
She was just an 11-year-old child.
I see.
Didn't have much of a choice.
But anyway, he got a custody battle going there, which the father took the child away from the mother, which for 11 years he hadn't even wanted the child at all.
Uh-huh.
So one for one there.
So, you know, he didn't stop at that.
You know, he's the one that initiated the whole thing on February 28th.
Okay, now, understanding that you've been a member of Branch Davidian, have you ever seen David Koresh make a pass at anybody who was not his wife?
Not under any circumstances.
You ever seen him act inappropriately with any children at all, male or female?
Never.
Never at all?
Uh, has he ever made any passes at you?
This is one thing about David that you'll find.
You know, he's just not a person who teaches the Bible.
He, he lives, you know, every day.
Uh-huh.
He teaches.
And, uh... So, so you're saying from your own involvement in Branch Davidian that none of these things ever took place.
Is that correct?
Yes.
It's totally ridiculous.
But, you know, we got on the boat like this too.
Okay, the seven seals are being opened up, and they are being opened up, we know, by David.
So we've got to realize what point of time we're living in.
So therefore, Satan is working very, very hard, you know, to, or through Mark Burr, to get people to, you know, not pay attention to what David is teaching, the Word of God.
You know, it says that God has laid a snare for Babylon, and they'll be taken unawares.
I'm sorry, Martin Bro is, we believe, is just a front for a much more powerful group of people who want to eliminate religion of all types.
And this is just a place to start.
The first thing that they have to do is make Christian religion really look bad.
And of course they're, with most people, which we call sheeple on this program, they're succeeding.
Well, he thinks he is.
But, you know, it talks about a man, this wicked counselor, and it also talks about this wicked counselor in Psalms 55.
And, uh... I know, because, like I said, that Mark is just trying to ease his consciousness of knowing that what David is preaching is the truth.
Uh-huh.
Well, let's get away from...
From that kind of a thing right now, let's go to Saturday night.
You say that this gentleman who lived across the street, who was actually an undercover BATF agent, was there at the church.
Did he give you guys any warning at all that something was going to happen the next morning?
No, he didn't.
So the next morning when he came over and got the paper, before he left that morning, the alarm went off on his
truck, which was unusual.
And he beat his horn four times when he went out of the driveway.
So then when he did go across the street, there was a lot of commotion.
Back and forth, there's two houses that sit directly across from their property to, you know, their property.
So the house that the DATF was in and the neighbor's house, they were, you know, pulling vehicles from the one the
agents were in to the next-door neighbor's.
And there was just really a lot of commotion that was totally unusual.
So...
You know, when you live out in the country like we did, you pretty much know the line of traffic.
Well, I do live out in the country, and I know that anything out of the ordinary attracts the attention of
everybody around.
So what you're telling us is that there was some highly unusual activity going on on the property across the street from the church, and did this alert you that there might be some kind of a raid, or what did you think about this?
I didn't know.
I was just like, man, what are they doing?
You see them all of a sudden pulling trucks from one driveway over to the other driveway, and it's like, man, what are they doing?
Then all of a sudden, here we see these big trucks coming down the road with a cavalry that was on the back.
Uh huh.
And what happened when you saw them pulling up into the front of the church?
Yes, you see threats of catapults but not like these, you know, not with tarps, those
are a mini-wave.
So, and the whole thing was totally unusual but we still didn't know, you know.
And what happened when you saw them pulling up into the front of the church?
Well, we were just looking out the window and watching.
So you were just standing in the window watching what was going on?
Yeah, most people like I said were in their own rooms and you know.
Uh huh.
And what happened then?
Uh, well, again, now we're starting to get into things that we're not open to discuss.
Like I said, we're pressed for what dad orders on us.
So, you know, as far as what happened after that point is stuff that we're not even supposed to be discussing at all.
Who told you that you couldn't discuss it?
Tony and everybody else.
First of all, if we start giving out information, they already know that we haven't cooperated with the FBI, the BATF.
So if we start handing out information, they're going to say, well, you knew more, you know, than you were telling us.
So we're just not releasing, you know.
Well, under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution, you don't ever have to tell them anything.
If you don't want to, it doesn't make any difference what you know.
You understand that, I'm sure.
Well, they don't know about the Constitution and the Fifth Amendment.
We've already found that out.
They don't even know that you lie.
Well, we know that, but nevertheless, they can accuse you of whatever they want.
You don't ever have to say anything to anybody.
Can you tell me who fired the first shots?
Yes, I should say it was the DHS.
Can you tell me anything about that?
No, I can't.
I can't comment on that.
Okay, what were the conditions inside after this started?
Well, for instance, the government has said that David Koresh was holding everyone hostage.
Now, we know that that can't be correct because he had to go to sleep sometimes.
That's right, and there's a lot of people in there.
Right now, there's estimated to be close to 100 people still inside the church.
That's right and there's a lot of people in there.
Right now there's estimated to be close to 100 people still inside the church.
Is that correct?
That's right and if I'd known now what I knew before I came out I would still be sitting
You mean... Because they told us when we came out that we could bring our Bibles, they would give those to us, which they didn't.
They told us we would be allowed a phone call back in to what they're calling a compound, which they didn't do.
We were supposed to have been a part of the negotiation, the ones who would volunteer to come out.
Uh, but if we came out and we called back, there were others who'd come out.
Well, they're wondering why nobody else came out after us.
We didn't get to call back either.
They didn't hold up to their end of the bargain, as they never did before anyway.
So they lied to you?
Oh yeah, they always do.
They're lying to everybody.
We found that out.
We said, uh, we're starting out with the second blow that this is going on, where they started bringing these pinks in, but they would not come on the property.
So they would take the tanks around to the back of the property and do all kinds of damage.
And where the roof, maybe three miles down the road, couldn't pick it up.
And this is where I found out that, you know, they didn't like negotiations.
I see.
But, you know, there was so much that went on that was covered up.
Well, Rita, let me ask you something.
What are they doing there?
Why did they do this?
What are the charges?
They've sealed the warrants, so we can't find out even why they're there.
Well, I will tell you this, they knew two months ahead before they ever did this raid that every single weapon that was bought was done legally.
That firefighter did go back and forth to gun shows locally around Houston, Austin, and different areas around here.
Those 12 UPS guys, which UPS had already, uh, Uh-huh.
Well, we know that everything you have is legal.
What are these allegations about .50 caliber machine guns and things like that?
or letting us know that they have done that.
So, you know, they were already aware that everything that we have was legal.
Uh-huh.
Well, we know that everything you have is legal.
What are these allegations about .50 caliber machine guns and things like that?
Uh, again, you know, that's for the FBI or something like that.
I don't know where they come up and have the stuff they come up with.
Okay.
So you're saying that basically they came there because they believed that there were illegal weapons but they knew that there were not?
I believe that they knew for a fact that there were not.
But we also know that BATF, it was time for their fundraisers so that they would still have their jobs.
So, you know, they made sure that, uh, you know, Channel 10, uh, the local Tribune in town, and, uh, several people were there to witness what they were going to do.
Uh-huh.
Um, we did hear, uh, a person that came in over the radio the second day that this happened, that he was in a bar called Charlie's, locally, here in town, and that the BATF officers were in there bragging about what they were going to do to us the next morning.
And what did they say?
Well, they didn't go into any detail.
You know, it's the radio, but he was in there, and, uh, but they were sitting in their bragging about what they were going to do to us.
Okay.
And all the time that you were with Branch Davidian, did you ever see anybody do anything illegal?
Never.
Never.
Matter of fact, that was one of the strictest things that David made everybody abide by.
I mean, if your tag ran out on your car, you know, you wouldn't drive it up on the highway.
Okay.
And did you ever see any signs of child molestation by anyone?
Never.
Any promiscuity amongst the men and women whatsoever?
Now a lot of people out there are wondering, I hate to even ask this question because it's
our right as Americans under the Constitution of the United States of America, and specifically
the second article in amendment, to keep and bear arms.
So there is no question that any American can buy and keep firearms, if they wish to, in any number that they wish to, because that's our constitutional right.
But there are a lot of people out there wondering why church members bought firearms.
Can you answer that?
Like I said, they were born and doing gun shows.
You know, which, you know, they would buy weapons and kill people and sometimes they would, you know, double their
money on them.
Oh, you mean they were buying and selling these weapons as investments?
Yes.
Okay.
So, and how many people were doing that?
I mean, how many people involved with the church were buying and selling weapons?
Well, it was basically, you know, Paul was basically, sometimes some of the guys would go with him, you know, but he was basically doing the show.
Okay, who is Paul?
Paul Fowler is the one that they're claiming is a fugitive, that he was armed and dangerous, and, you know, Paul is one of the most laid-back persons I have ever met in my life.
To be on The Dangerous is incredibly ridiculous.
They had followed him.
Matter of fact, Marcus said he was at a game show, I think, in Austin, in Houston, on that Sunday morning.
And he was followed.
He didn't know by whom.
Again, I heard him over the radio while they were still inside, and he was telling them that his family was in there and that he wanted to get back in.
And he said that someone was following him.
And they asked him, you know, well, who's following you?
He said he didn't know.
He just knew he was being followed.
If they were following him and they knew he was not in the church, why did they attack the church if he was the one they were after?
Because they're claiming it was David they were after, but again, this gets back to Mark Burroughs.
Mark Burroughs wants David back for whatever they've been voting for.
And Rita, do you have any connection with Branch Davidian other than just being a person who Who went there to study the Bible and learn God's Word?
There is no connection.
I mean, that's what everybody that has ever met David has been there for.
So you're just there.
Well, tell us in your own words what you are there for.
I was there because I was teaching to David the seven pillars.
Do you have any attachments to David other than that he's a teacher?
He is a great teacher and that is the only attachment.
So, is there any reason that you would lie to protect him?
Uh, not in any circumstances, because I don't have to.
Because, first of all, he's teaching the Word of God.
If somebody doesn't like what he's teaching, then they need to get mad at God, not David, you know.
I mean, I've got a 17-year-old daughter inside there still, and I am not at all concerned about her welfare or her being, because I know that she is fine.
My brother is also in there.
Is there enough food and water for these people to live comfortably?
Uh, yes.
Now some people might ask, why would there be so much food and water stored there?
Was this in preparation of something?
Uh, there was always loads of food and water because it was not in bulk.
Because there was people coming and going out of there all the time.
You know, they're staying in this truck, this group.
Well, Rita, it wouldn't matter even if it was a cult, because if there is no illegal activity being conducted, we're protected by the Constitution and our right to... Well, we are.
It's just that people will not wake up and stand behind those and If the sheeple of the world continue to allow these things to happen, then no, we won't be protected.
Because the protection comes from the people's demand for that protection, and their ability and their willingness to protect and defend the Constitution.
If nobody's willing to protect and defend the Constitution, then of course we won't have the protection of that document, because after all, it's a piece of paper.
But within that document resides the nation.
That document is the law, the supreme law of the land, that gives us the right under law to the protection which is written in the document and in its amendments.
So, yes, if all the sheep will permit these things to happen and don't understand the Constitution and don't perceive what's happening as an attack on their rights, then of course we won't have those freedoms.
And you're absolutely right in that respect.
But the purpose of this program is to wake people up and allow them to understand that what is happening in Waco, Texas is not what they're being told by the government.
And in fact, it is an attack upon the Constitution, the nation itself, and upon our individual creator-endowed rights.
We have no constitutional rights.
Our rights are given to us by God, and the Constitution guarantees the protection of those rights.
Again, you've got to still go back to the beginning of all this, and it does say in the Bible,
we can make war with a beast, which we know that Bible law leads to world-sport confusion.
Who can fight against the federal government?
I mean, look, all through history, has the federal government ever been wrong?
I mean, just look at your local police department.
You know, they can have their fun, and they have to learn to love the federal government.
Well, that's only because the people have been taught throughout their life that their government can do no wrong
and to never question authority.
And we know that going back through history and looking at history that that's the wrong thing to do, that we should always be questioning authority because authority always attempts to garner more and more power and become the master.
This was the first country in the history of the world that ever truly granted freedom to men and women anywhere and made them kings in their own right.
And it was the first government that was supposed to be the servant of the people.
And as all governments always do, it keeps collecting more and more power over the years.
People tend to, by their very nature and their human failings, relinquish more and more power over the years until it becomes reversed and man once again is a slave owned by the government that started out being his servant.
Don't go away, folks.
We've got to take a break.
I'll be right back after this very short pause.
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Let me ask you this.
When you were in that compound, or that church, they keep calling it a compound, and pretty
soon we all find ourselves calling it that, but we know that it's not.
That's one way that they brainwash us.
While you were inside, did anybody ever attempt to tell you that you can't leave when you want to?
Never.
Were you held hostage at any time by anybody?
Not under any circumstances.
Was anybody in there ever held hostage that you saw?
Never.
So anybody in there is free to go at any time that they wish?
Exactly.
As a matter of fact, let me give you a few examples.
If someone came to listen to David and to what he talked, if they found themselves wanting to leave and for whatever reason, and they didn't have the money, David would always make sure If they had enough money to get where they were going, to
set themselves up for whatever they needed.
And that was always the situation.
He never just said, well, you know, if you're going to leave, go ahead.
You don't have any money in your pocket.
Too bad.
He always made sure that somebody either took them, they had an airline ticket to respond.
You know, whatever the situation, he made sure that, you know, they had proper means.
Great.
So, why did you eventually come out, Rita?
Like I said, I was part of the negotiation.
If I would come back, it might lead to more people coming out, but I can come out, I can call back in and let my friends know that I've been treated humanely, which they played me stupid takes for over an hour, telling us how They run as a go-kart in my car.
After playing the tape about how he was uh, boy you were supposed to be part of negotiations
is that why you cam out?
Uh Yes, but you know.
If I was come out I could call back in and let everybody know because you know there
are people there from all over the world.
You know there's people from New Zealand, from India, from Canada, England, you name it.
Rita, let me ask you this.
Is anyone in that church being held hostage?
No, not in any circumstance.
Were you ever held hostage?
No.
Do you know anybody that was ever held hostage?
Never.
So everybody's in there of their own free will.
Yes, and again, everybody there can come and go, do as they please.
It has always been that way.
I mean, I myself travel back and forth from North Carolina to Texas, off and on for two years, and people all over the world are doing the same thing because, you know, their diesels are running out.
Uh-huh.
You know, they just can't stay here, you know, on and on and on, you know, without reporting to someone.
And they have regular worship services and study groups and this kind of thing.
Yes.
And, well, let me ask you this.
Why are the people staying in there?
Why don't they come out?
Why are they staying in there?
Because, first of all, it's what they've been taught by David in the Bible is pertaining to these seven sills.
You know, we know where we're at in time.
And it says in the Bible there'll be time no longer.
It talks about in the days with the death of angels, the mystery of God shall be finished
and He has declared His service to the prophets.
Well, you know, what is this mystery that it's talking about?
Well, you're saying then that they're staying there because David taught them not to come
out and are, what is...
No, David didn't teach them not to come out, but like I said, God has allowed this situation
that has happened out here to happen for a reason.
You know, people look at it from a biblical sense, they look at it from a political sense.
Whether you're looking at it biblically or politically, it goes back to the same thing.
Well, the way I would look at it is from the Constitution.
I'd say, hey, we have every right to worship.
We're protected by the First Amendment.
We have the right to keep and bear arms.
We're protected by the Second Article and Amendment.
You have no right to do what you're doing.
You've killed people.
You've caused the death of others.
I'm not coming out just on principle.
It wouldn't have anything to do with anything else with me.
But I understand where you're coming from.
But I'm trying to get a clarification.
If you look at it from a political standpoint, you still have to go back to the Bible though.
Because, okay, we know that our constitutional rights have been abolished more or less in
our amendments.
They didn't have to be taken into consideration, so therefore you have to go back to who can
make laws of the beast.
We know that only God can do it.
Well, these people inside the church, they're looking out at all these guns and tanks and
armored personnel carriers.
Aren't they afraid?
Well, let me tell you, I rode in one of their armored personnel carriers that they call, let me tell you, it's a tank.
They try to intimidate you by those things that, you know, like I said, you know, it's, okay, an example of what's going on.
If people read the book of Nahum, it talks about these tanks in Nahum.
Ever in history, that anything like this has ever happened, there have never been tanks involved.
Well, why now?
You know, they're trying to say that we're setting the stage up.
You know, that we've read these prophecies.
And we're making it happen.
Well, hey, we didn't tell them to bring their tanks down there.
You know, they're complaining because they've been there.
They're going to go home.
Don't go home.
You know, we didn't invite them in the first place.
Well, that's true.
How did you get to ride in one of these things?
When we came out, that is how they transported us out of there.
Nobody knew.
They asked me to drive my car out after they had already ran over it the previous night or previous afternoon with a tank.
They ran over your car with a tank and then they wanted you to drive it out?
Oh my goodness.
So when you came out, how many people came out with you?
Just myself and one other lady.
And so they asked you to get in this tank and then they took you where?
They make you... They... Okay, it hasn't been raining.
It's really nasty weather out here.
The place is really muddy.
The train's really torn the place up pretty bad.
When you come out and you approach the train, they would yell at you.
Shine lights in your eyes if you went out at night.
Holler at you.
Tell you to throw your stuff down on the ground in the mud.
And then they would search you.
And then, you know, they would search around your belongings.
And then they would take you to, uh...
I guess it was one of the... I couldn't see outside the paint, so I really don't know where the checkpoint was.
So, where did... That's where we transferred to a car.
And where did you eventually end up?
Uh, we went to be fingerprinted at TSPI, and then went to McClendon County Jail.
And then where did you go?
From there, I am now in a Salvation Army halfway house in Lakewood, Texas.
In a Salvation Army halfway house.
Can you...
I'm reminded by the federal government to house federal prisoners in May.
So the Salvation Army is receiving funds from the federal government to house prisoners?
Bye.
I thought the Salvation Army was a church?
So you're being held prisoner by the Salvation Army?
This is incredible.
I'm excited about that event.
Oh, this is incredible.
You're...you can't come and go as you please.
No, it's not...
Under half the rest.
We're not even allowed to walk out the front door.
We have no media time and have any photographs with us, but you're not doing any live interviews.
So who is serving as the guard for this play?
Well, you're under house arrest, so therefore they are leaving it up to us that we don't break any of the rules.
Oh, I see.
So you're being held under threat of going to a hardcore jail.
I understand.
Now were you afraid when you were in there and all the shooting took place and you saw people killed and wounded?
Yeah, it was different, but you know, we did learn, you know, these things.
We knew something was going to happen, you know, because like I said, we realized the time that we were living in,
but we had no idea that this was going to be this particular thing.
Well, what crossed your mind when you saw people getting killed and bullets coming through the walls?
Bye.
Bye.
I wasn't in that situation.
I mean, as far as, where we were at, everybody was down on the floor.
There was, matter of fact, I was holding one of the girls there's baby when all this happened.
And this baby was something about six or eight months old.
Uh-huh.
So it was all I could do to try to keep this baby calm.
So, you know.
How many people inside were killed?
Uh, just, they're, they're refusing to move.
They're saying that, you know, David lied so much that they don't know whether to believe him or not believe him.
They knew point blank on the first day that there were six people in there dead.
Just because when they get a food fight, we let them come in and take their dead and their wounded out.
They promised to come in and take our dead out, which they did not do.
And they would not give you any medical supplies or food or water or anything like that?
No, we had water, but no, they weren't going to do anything to benefit us because they wanted everybody to come out and turn themselves in.
Were all the dead men and women?
Excuse me?
Were the dead men and women?
There was one woman and five men.
One woman and five men.
No children were killed?
That's another thing that hasn't been released.
I can't comment on that.
But one of the people that they already know, which was on the outside trying to get in, was Mike Schroeder.
Which, right now, they have not yet released his body either.
His family cannot even get his body.
They won't release it.
So you're telling, you can't tell me if there were any children killed?
Uh, no.
And like I said again, that's information that hasn't been released.
But, why in the world would anybody want to keep that a secret?
Well, if I post shit, I just owe some people something, I guess.
How many people were wounded?
Well we have reports that David's daughter was killed.
Is that true?
Well, we have reports that David's daughter was killed.
Is that true?
Well, again, you know, this is something that, you know, I'm not going to comment on at this
point.
When all this comes out, you'll see why later on.
Okay.
Well, Rita, what is the attitude of the people who are still inside the church?
Uh, great.
They have good morale?
Definitely.
Because again, you know, we know that God is in control of the whole situation.
Are these people willing to die before they come out?
Well, I mean, you know, I mean, if they're here and want to go in and do the same thing they did before, then there's not much of a choice.
Again, you know, we know where we're at as far as the fields.
We know that we are in the sixth field.
So, again, you would have to learn what these fields are in order to know where we really stand.
And this is not just something that you can just tell somebody, because the fields are a progression thing.
You're not going to understand the second one until you learn the first.
And, you know, you're not going to understand the third until you know the first field and the second field.
So, basically, they're not going by anything other than Scripture.
That's right.
You know, it's supposed to be the Word of God.
And if you believe the Bible, you want God's Word to be true.
I mean, you know, that's the only thing you really can live by, is God's Word.
You know, they're trying to make out like it's David's Word.
Well, that's not the circumstances at all.
You know, God wrote it.
David's just, you know, I appreciate it.
Have you learned anything from all of this, Rita, that you'd like to share with the listeners?
What do you mean?
Or anything at all?
As far as what I have been through with David or this situation?
Anything.
Anything that you might think is important that you've learned from this that you would like to share with the listeners?
I have learned that David can open up me, too.
And this is the issue here.
The federal government is trying to stop him from teaching every soul on this earth they serve.
Which we know that God isn't going to allow that to happen.
Because He didn't put them in there for them to be filled up.
It said fill them up to the time of the year.
And it talks about there'll be time no longer.
Well, we're in that time now.
So, you know, he's going to get the word out.
You know.
What do you think is going to happen to David Koresh when this is all over?
Well, again, if you read what was put up on the banner, you know, you can see.
Well, you told me what those were, and I've just learned that.
And after we finish I will play it back to tape and look up all those references.
They're saying that David is threatening them by this.
Well, whose word is it?
Is it the word of David's crash or is it the word of God?
They're saying that David is threatening them by sending them with scriptures in?
Good grief.
And so far, they haven't... You know, one thing that baffles everybody is if they're just after David Koresh, why didn't they wait until he went into town to arrest him?
Why did they come out and cause us all the loss of life and now a siege with people inside and children?
That's why they had the press and everything there.
That's why they had started these series of articles.
Well, the BATF is an agency of government that receives funding every year.
Well, I bet after this they may not decide to ever keep them.
Well, the BATF is an agency of government that receives funding every year.
I mean, I don't...
Well, I bet after this they may not decide to ever keep them.
They're causing the government more money than anything else that's ever happened in
law enforcement in the history of the country.
And not only that, but we know, we found out that they've broken just about every law that there is in the process.
You were a member of the church.
You were in there doing your bible study when the BATF and the FBI came up with these big cattle car bus things and piled out and did they walk up and politely try to serve a warrant?
climbing, sticking ladders, climbing up all over the roof, busting out the windows.
So they...
I couldn't wait for it.
I couldn't even see if David was even there.
So they just jumped out and began shooting and putting up ladders and breaking windows
and this kind of thing.
They sure did.
Wow.
And then the church members, what did they do?
Well, like I said, I can only say from where I was at and I was in my room and if you walked
and kind of, yeah, what is going on here?
You know, you're looking out, and they would just haul a window, and you spray the window with gunfire.
So if you just went over and tried to look out the window, somebody would haul our window, and then all of a sudden bullets would start coming through your window?
Yeah, they would, and it happened to several of the young kids, it happened to myself, and to several of the other ones.
So, what did you do?
I got down and didn't get back up.
You got down on the floor and stayed there?
And so how long were you in there surrounded by the BATF and the FBI with dead and wounded in the church until you decided to come out?
Well, that day, let's say, within the hour, there was a ceasefire called.
And, you know, everybody was told, you know, there were white people hiding behind barrels and stuff, you know, way over on the north end of the building and, you know, How long were you there before you decided to leave?
get out of here you know and they say well you know how can we trust you you know and they say go on get out
so you know everybody you know I can't tell you everything that went on in that building because
like I said it is a large place but how long were you there before you decided to leave
probably from February 28th until March the 24th so you were there almost uh just about seven days
short of a month before you decided to come out.
And when you came out, it was, it was what?
To do negotiations with them?
It was part of the negotiations.
Oh, it was part of the negotiations?
In other words, they negotiated for you to come out?
How did they even know you were in there?
Well, we would talk to him on the phone and when we talked to him we made it very clear that we were not being held hostage in there.
You know, we would hear him, you know, in the press conferences saying how Dave is trying to keep a hostage.
So we would just get on the phone and talk to him and tell him we were there because we wanted to be there.
And they talked you into coming out?
And, well, this started when, okay, the kids were sent out first.
Several of the children.
Then those that sent $1,000 out.
He paid $1,000 for 6 gallons of milk and they didn't send it to him?
Uh-huh.
He paid $1000 for 6 gallons of milk and they didn't send it to him?
There was a station up there to feed the other kids that were not needed anything.
Uh huh.
So we did get some milk for the other kids that were in there, but no, they didn't send it out.
So finally, the local sheriff had it sent in.
But then they found out the poorest they had put it in, they had bugs.
Had what?
They had bugs in it.
Listening devices.
Oh, bugs were in the containers?
Oh, yeah.
Did anybody drink the milk?
Well, they had put the milk in the cooler, and the bugs were inside the cooler.
Uh-huh.
We also found when the children were going out, they were just more than happy to send in videotapes of the children.
Uh-huh.
The cases that they sent the videotapes in were extremely nice, so they got to know that they were also bugs.
We found seven different bugs in the stuff that they sent in.
We could take them in his room and give them Bible studies, monthly Bible studies.
So then that's when they stopped negotiating with us like forever.
Because all they got over the bugs was Bible studies?
Yes.
That's wonderful!
They really did appreciate it, sir, but they will one day.
How many people all total came out?
Up to this time?
So about 21 children and 12 or 13 adults.
Are all the adults in the same place?
and there's about probably about 12 or 13 of us, the adults.
So about 21 children and 12 or 13 adults. Are all the adults in the same place?
Yes.
How many others are there with you?
Several are from the Spring County Jail because they have had charges under them.
Anytime we have found that they try to modify our order, So that you can't get out.
a period of witness, they can only hold you for so many days.
So anytime your attorney tries to go to court to modify your order, then they start taking
charges on conspiracy charges, attempted murder, whatever they can find.
So that you can't get out.
Now why is it that they don't want you out?
I don't know.
Evidently they want to fall together and, uh, you know, so they don't have to go all over the country because there are people from all over the country here.
So, you know, I guess they don't want to have to round this all up if they want to know something.
But it sounds to me like you're not a material witness for them.
It sounds to me like you're a material witness against them.
Why would they want... They better believe it.
Why would they want, um, to hold you as a material witness if everything you're going to say is going to be against them?
I don't know.
That's a good question.
Could it be so that you can't get on television and talk to the American people?
Well, they've controlled it quite a bit.
They have done a lot of things that they have covered up and they are hoping that it doesn't get out.
Oh, it's going to get out.
I guarantee you that.
It's going to get out.
Whatever they've done is going to get out.
There are an awful lot of us out here working toward that end.
We've heard reports that some of the children were poisoned by the milk that was sent in.
Is that true?
Okay, so that's a false report.
We've also, well, we don't want to, you said you didn't want to talk about any children that may have been killed.
Were there any children wounded?
Pardon?
No children wounded, but you can't say if any children were killed or not?
Okay, are there any of the other people who were in the church who came out in that same half-naked whey house with you?
Oh, they do?
I do.
Four other women have gag orders.
Oh, they do?
Yes.
You don't have gag orders?
No, because I brought up one my time, either.
I mean, hell, if they want to put a gag order on me, if they want to treat me like a criminal, they'll cut some
charges under me.
You know, I haven't done anything, and so there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to speak to whomever I wish,
whenever I wish.
So you don't have a gag order on you?
No.
Why are there gag orders on the other women?
Well, a gag order has no legal standing whatsoever unless it's issued by a judge.
You might want to tell them that.
And if they'd like to talk to me, I sure will do it under the same terms that I did it with you.
Okay, Rita.
Thank you very much, and I want you to know that there are an awful lot of us out here who understand the Constitution, we understand the religious issues, we understand what's going on there, and we are with you, and we are with the people who are in that church, and we will always be looking to bring out the truth whenever and however We can, and whatever the truth is, it's going to come out eventually.
Yeah, we know that's right.
But, you know, it's just, like I said, I wasn't aware that this stuff wasn't getting around all over.
I would have been on the phone a whole lot more.
No, it's not getting out at all.
In fact, most American people don't know anything except this, that they're told that David Koresh believes that he's Jesus Christ and has said that he's Jesus Christ, that he's holding everybody else hostage.
That he has been collecting illegal arms, which include .50 caliber machine guns, and that he and the Branch Davidian were going to attack the city of Waco, Texas.
That's totally bizarre, especially when in the initial raid on 4th grade and 28th, he was shot twice.
I think he could have been overpowered by anybody there, even a child.
Did he try to stop the firing?
Yeah, he did. He had his body sticking out the door, his one arm sticking out and he was yelling.
He was saying, you know, get back, you know, let's talk about this. The women and the kids are here.
So he was trying to stop bloodshed.
Yes.
Okay Rita, we're out of time.
We thank you.
God bless you.
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