HellwQrld Presents: "Who Killed JFK? Lee Harvey Oswald" Episode #6: Richard Nagell has evidence that will lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton
This episode we delve into the story of Richard Case Nagell and if his claims hold any water. They don't and his claims about Oswald are so crazy that break Mike's brain. Also Rob has a theory about Operation Northwoods and how Kennedy was killed to get us into a war with the Soviet Union. Get bonus content on PatreonSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/hellwqrld. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Who shot JFK? Who shot JFK? Who shot JFK? Who shot JFK?
It was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Hello everybody!
Hellworld presents Who Killed Kennedy?
It was Lee Harvey Oswald, Episode 6, The Gateway to Madness.
This is the first episode that I really feel like just goes absolutely off the rails for Rob.
And we've been pretty much crushing him the whole time, but this one's especially mad.
I'm joined, as always, by Haley, aka Arizona Right Watch.
Hello, I hear that Oswald was not involved, so this will be interesting.
Yes, we are the Oswalds, totally innocent.
Episode 8, again, I keep reading these things up, but episode 8 is banana stickers.
Episode 7 is boring.
We're going to have to find a way to punch up episode 7, but this episode, you've been waiting for it, we're going to deliver it, I promise you, this is just absolute Bockers.
But episode 8 is also bockers.
I haven't listened to 9 and 10 yet, but I'm getting to them.
I'm like stealing myself for how... because I feel like we're getting a lot of downhill crazy momentum as this series has gone on.
And so it's just like, man, this is going to be brutal.
So here we are.
And your brain can only take so much at a time.
Yes, only so much of Rob Reiner's gruesome pilderness can seep into me at a given time.
But, um, this episode is pretty wild.
This is all about Richard Case Nagle, who is a really, like, in conspiracy world, and I lived in this world again in the 90s and on, I was very much immersed in this stuff.
I was obsessed with it.
Nagle was always a fringe kind of character.
I never really thought of him as being very important.
But this series has presented Nagel as practically the linchpin of the conspiracy theories.
To know Nagel is to know the truth.
And I really don't think that's very accurate.
Rob Reiner is just Dick Russell-pilled.
He just likes his book.
Yeah, Dick Russell just... This whole podcast is just a stealth advertising campaign for the man who knew too much.
It's just this impressive thing It's wild!
It's like Dick Russert went to Rob Reiner with this book, and then Rob Reiner grabbed the book and went to Soledad O'Brien.
It was like, Soledad, we have to do a podcast based off this book, and also based off of my internal madness over the Kennedy assassination.
And then Soledad was like, sounds good to me.
And this episode is basically like a three-person pod, really, because Dick just chews up the scenery.
Dick just takes over.
And then Rob shows up for a bit.
And then they remember Solid Ad's around, so they just throw in the Solid Ad a little bit at the end, which is just...it is I've said it before, but the Solid Ed sections are so patronizing.
Whenever Rob says, Solid Ed, can you read this?
It just, it's like nails on a chalkboard when I hear him saying that.
Cause it just seems so forced and so like just inorganic, a spot where you're just like, Oh, right.
I forgot the female voice is a part of this podcast.
Yo, female voice, female it up for me.
It's her podcast.
I feel like, I feel like Solid Ed, honey.
You're a journalist.
Don't do this to yourself.
Do not put your name on this.
You shouldn't be introducing this as your production because you're doing false flag conspiracy theorism for a celebrity.
That's the big thing.
They actually bring up false flags.
They literally go full intro wars on this thing.
But they want you to know that it's the right kind of false flag because they tell you.
They're like, you know, false flags Now we're getting into Cuckoo Bananas Town.
That's that's that's the stuff of, you know, Alex Jones types.
They don't say Alex Jones types, but they're letting you know that their type of conspiracy theorism is different from the other type of conspiracy theorism.
So they give you examples like weapons of mass destruction during the Iraq War was a lie.
And this is the same.
This is why I think that Rob Reiner could be convinced to eventually do a 9-11 conspiracy podcast at some point down the line.
Um, because it's just like, yeah, these are the narratives that we've heard, you know, in the past where it's like, uh, the government lies to you.
That's why my, my cuckoo bananas conspiracy about false flags is actually true.
And it's like, yeah, the government lies to you, but that doesn't mean that your lies are true, sir.
Yeah.
I think it was so weird, and we're almost going in reverse order here, so we'll hit this, then we'll go back to the front of this podcast.
It's just wild that they brought up false flags in this episode.
But the thing that was so weird was that you have your two easy false flags to attack the government on, which was WMDs in Iraq and the Gulf of Tonkin.
And, like, you can just say those two things and literally every conspiracy theorist is just going to nod along with you and be like, yeah, damn right, government bad.
But they spent a lot of time talking about the Maine, the ship that blew up that started the Spanish-American War.
And they were just sort of like, America wanted to go to war with Spain, and then the Maine blew up.
So we got that war.
I'm not a Maine truther.
I don't know a whole hell of a lot about the USS Maine.
But I do know that like the study around that is that it's murky.
That we don't know if the Maine was a quote-unquote false flag or not.
Or if it was an accident that was then used for propaganda purposes.
Or if Spain actually just did it.
Knowing the truth about that is really tough, because over a hundred years ago, it's not this very obvious thing.
WMDs in Iraq is just the easiest, slam-dunkiest slam dunk of all time.
The government said there were WMDs in Iraq.
We went to Iraq.
There were no WMDs.
Fuck the government.
Boom.
9-11 was an inside job.
You can just do that.
That's super easy.
I really don't know why they spent so much time on the USS Maine.
Because a lot of Americans around them banging their clogs going, we should have never gone to war with Spain!
That was just so terrible what we did back then to those poor Spaniards!
And we stole all their gold doubloons!
Really?
USS Maine experts, call in please.
Let us know.
Please explain the false flag narrative around this.
How pilled is Rob Reiner?
Please explain to me.
We'll get a 10-part series on the USS Maine and the Spanish Revolution War.
Go break down a really weird rabbit hole.
And then every week I'll tune in to check my viewership for that podcast series.
Seven!
Twelve people, wow!
We just doubled!
Episode one was seven!
Episode two was seven!
Yes!
We're crushing!
A lot of people out there want to hear about USS Maine.
A lot of people.
Yep.
Conspiracies around the USS Maine.
That's a big, big, big industry in the podcast universe.
A lot of pods about that.
So yeah.
So this episode actually begins with, um, We're talking about, we do like the recap of episode five.
We continue to slander Ruth Payne some more, which... Every time her name is mentioned, they say CIA-linked Ruth Payne every single time, because they can't prove she was CIA.
So they have to say CIA-connected, CIA-linked, you know?
And they practically spit after they say her name, too.
It's like skydating operative Ruth Bane.
I curse upon thee, Ruth Bane, you betrayer of America!
And as we covered in the last episode, she was not the one who brought forward the job offer of the Texas School Book Depository.
It was one of her friends who was talking to Marina and her Someone else.
That woman said, hey, a relative of mine got a job at the Texas School Book Depository.
Maybe they need somebody else.
And then Oswald went to Roy Truly, talked to him.
Roy Truly gave him the job.
And then afterwards, Roy Truly could have sent Oswald to a different warehouse that was not on the motorcade route, or he could have kept him in the main building, which was on the motorcade route.
And Roy Truly made the decision to keep him in the main building.
So, but I never hear anything about Roy Truly being CIA connected.
Like, he was the one who put Oswald in position.
It wasn't Ruth Payne, but, but Ruth Payne took Oswald's wife back with her to Dallas.
And then Kennedy said he was going to Dallas.
Also, she's interested in learning Russian, which is suspicious and not totally xenophobic whatsoever.
I do like this.
I'm gonna go ahead and say it.
This is a funny thing that they've done, like when they were baking the other guy's appearance unnecessarily.
And yeah, like basically finding suspicion when someone speaks another language in America or has interest in that.
As if that doesn't contribute to a very incredibly racist and often xenophobic narrative that we see nowadays.
I just find that to be a weird thing to do.
To be like, that person wants to speak another language in America?
Where we speak English?
Suspicious.
I don't know.
I don't like it.
I thought it was a weird thing to do.
It's really weird because like the whole, the whole thrust of this series is that Kennedy was the peace president, that Kennedy was the guy who had suddenly figured out that this whole Cold War thing was bad, and that We need to forge a new path forward.
We have to find solidarity and brotherhood with the Soviets.
And that Kennedy's peace speech made Khrushchev weep and he rebroadcasted in Russian.
Did we translate it in Russian and you had this thawing of relations between the Soviets and the Americans after the Cuban Missile Crisis between Khrushchev and Kennedy.
And then you have on a very minor level by comparison, Ruth Payne seeking solidarity with the Soviet people.
Wanting to learn Russian.
Wanting to have Russians learn American culture and vice versa.
And Rob Reiner's just like, she's got to be CIA to be thinking that kind of stuff.
Why else would she be doing this?
This is obviously nefarious.
The same things that had all of the enemies in this series that Literally, all of the bad guys in this podcast are, Kennedy is soft on communism.
Kennedy's gonna roll over for them commies.
And then Ruth Payne does the same thing, and it's just like, Ruth Payne, communist.
And it's like, wait a minute!
Kennedy does it, it's good, but when Ruth Payne does it, it's bad?
What are we doing here?
Square that circle for me, please!
It's just so bizarre.
So we slander Ruth Payne.
We go over more, like, episode five stuff.
We talk about, like, Oswald getting the job and all that good stuff.
And then we get to the big, we hit us with the opening sting.
We hit us with the hook that brings you into the podcast, which is that we re-litigate that Nagel goes into a bank, pulls out a gun, Fires a couple bullets into the ceiling of the bank, and then this cop arrests him, and the cop's name is Jim Bundren.
And Jim Bundren, when he… Remember that name, listeners.
Yeah, remember that name.
It's very important.
When Bundren is grabbing Nagel, Nagel states that he wants to be arrested because he doesn't want to be anywhere near Dallas.
And Bundren's like, what does that mean?
And basically, there's this whole thing where Nagel's like, you'll know soon enough.
The dark truth will be revealed in time.
And the thing about this is, if this had happened, if this went down the way Bundren claims it did, and this happened in such a way that it was public knowledge, you wouldn't be hearing about this in a podcast 60 years later.
Rob Reiner would have been hearing this from Morton Saul back in the day when he was busy getting Kennedy pills in the 60s.
This would have been incredibly explosive information.
And the reason why no one's heard about this is because Bundren first came up with this quote in 1990.
And he'd been interviewed by Dick Russert before this, and he never said it to him then.
But 15 years later, Bundren remembers, oh yeah, by the way, Nagel said Dallas.
And it's like, oh really?
How convenient is that?
Holy shit.
What an interesting story that just fits into the narrative that we've now known for decades at this point.
Right, exactly.
This is the whole thing is that people learned what to say in order to get attention by that point.
Now we know what you do in order to get the conspiracy people to buy your book or listen to your story or let you go on to the talk circuit.
So if you're this unbelievably, really tangentially related to the conspiracy theory as Jim Bundren is, all you have to do is say, oh yeah, Nagel told me about Dallas back then.
And it's like, what?
And the important part about this is that Kennedy's plan to go to Dallas was not released at that time.
There was no information Kennedy was going to doing a trip through Texas.
This is so funny.
Because it does make it into the podcast.
I don't know if they realize it because it's not in order when they're saying it, but they do explain, obviously, when Nagel was arrested.
And then they also explain when the announcement for Kennedy's trip to Dallas is.
And, uh, that happened after he was already in jail.
The announcement for when he was in Dallas, gonna be in Dallas.
So the timeline doesn't match up.
And yeah, on the website that also debunks Nagel's claims, it points that out.
And I was like, dude, that was totally in the fucking episode.
Like their own timeline in the podcast doesn't make sense.
And the thing about this is that there'll be people like, oh, Nagel had inside knowledge that they were going to do this.
Proof?
Yeah, proof, evidence, anything of that.
And presidential plans change in the spur of the moment.
When the Cuban Missile Crisis hit, Kennedy stopped going out and was bunkered into the White House for a period of time.
Events happen that can disrupt things.
The idea that Kennedy had to be brought to Dallas and had to be killed in Dallas And he had to be killed in front of the Texas School Book Depository so we could blame it on Lee Harvey Oswald.
You are putting so many eggs into this basket.
This, I mean, the amount of investment you're doing into Lee Harvey Oswald is insane when you consider all of the tiny little things that could have happened that could have made this whole thing go horribly wrong.
Like, The morning of the assassination, it was pouring rain, and it just so happened that like an hour before the motorcade, the rain stopped.
What happens if the rain just continues?
What if the rain just continues, they leave the bubble top on top of the limo, and now I know, I'll let everyone know, the bubble top that was supposed to be on the limo was not bulletproof, so it would not have stopped the bullets from going through, but Once you do that, once you have like a plastic shield between the president and the people trying to kill him, that would have created a lot more evidence of the conspiracy or of Oswald's guilt because you now would have had bullet holes going through this bubble top into the president or not.
And that's the thing is that Oh my god, imagine if Kennedy gets killed with this bubble top, they take the bubble top off, there's no bullet holes in it.
And we have photos, we have everything.
The conspiracy is completely exposed.
They're completely screwed.
Alternative, let's just say...
Instead of just a rainstorm, it was a thunderstorm.
And people don't go out in the thunder.
And then the Secret Service is like, well, we're just going to cancel the motorcade.
We're just going to have Kennedy just drive there direct with no parade route.
And that just happens.
And now Oswald can't be framed for killing the president because the weather was too bad.
So Kennedy just gets to the trademark by other means.
Because I think I have read reports about Kennedy's travel itinerary and The motorcade was a 10-mile, like, luxurious stroll through Dallas from Love Field to the Trademark.
And the plan after that was for Kennedy to go back to the Love Field and then fly to Austin.
And the route from the Trademark to Love Field on the way back was supposed to be just a four-mile direct route.
It was supposed to be a four-mile drive.
So If the weather was so bad, they would have just taken the direct route to the trademark and been like, sorry guys, couldn't do a motorcade today.
The weather was too bad.
And now all the planning to kill Kennedy goes out the window because the weather sucked.
And I mean, it's just, it's just all of the work that they're doing, all of this to put Kennedy in this one specific spot so that Lee Harvey Ogle can be framed for it.
It's nuts.
I mean, why would you do all this work and invest so much just for that?
For the chance to put Kennedy in this one spot when a million variables could have gone another way?
There was a lot of arguing about if Kennedy should go to the trademark or not.
There was arguments about how the parade route was going to be structured.
But no, none of that is true.
It's all kayfabe, but the truth was the motorcade was, Kennedy was going to Dallas.
The motorcade was going on that route.
It was all etched in stone.
Like, I don't know, three months ago when Nagel shot into that bank and then said, I don't want to be in Dallas.
Reiner describes it as the chess pieces are moving into place.
So the way that he's describing it is that literally every action that is taken before the assassination was pre-planned to eventually lead to the assassination.
From Oswald's teenage years, we're getting, it's not just like Since we knew about Kenny to go into Dallas, we're talking like Oswald has been getting programmed since he was a teenager to eventually carry out a mission.
And then the mission ended up being the assassination.
Or was it?
Because we don't know yet who's going to get pinned on this assassination in the final episode.
But yeah, that's kind of the story that they're telling, is that every single fucking little detail that happened leading up to the assassination was actually carefully crafted to kill Kennedy.
Right.
They even saw the rain that morning in Dallas and they turned the heart machine to sunny to make sure that the weather would stay clean.
They did that.
And I really think that this is something that a lot of conspiracy theorists don't want to understand or acknowledge about what happened is how much happenstance and bad luck was involved in this.
And that's really what this comes down to.
In a lot of ways, thinking that there was no way Kennedy could have survived that trip through Dallas is almost comforting.
It's like, oh man, those evil bad people set him up and they took him out and that's just the way it was.
And it's just like, you know, it's not really true.
If Oswald gets that other job, Kennedy probably goes through Dallas without a hitch.
If it's too rainy and they put the bubble top on, Avalon probably pokes his gun out the window and then looks at the bubble top and goes, oh fuck, they got the bulletproof bubble top on.
And then he pulls his gun back and doesn't try to shoot the president.
I mean, there's so many ways this could have broke differently where Kennedy is not killed.
And I think that's incredibly frustrating that we basically won the negative lottery where we're the timeline where everything breaks perfectly right for Oswald to have a chance to kill Kennedy.
And we don't live in all the myriad of timelines where Kennedy just goes through Dallas like no problem, no muss, no fuss.
People don't want to think that.
They want to think that Daily Plaza was just this den of snipers and 55 bullets came at Kennedy from all angles and he had to die.
He just was 100% a goner.
And I think that's just silly.
There's no evidence for that.
So, yeah.
And I actually, even in my notes, had that whole chess pieces are being moved around the board.
And so Nagel begins his story about how he was working with Oswald in Japan, but the problem with that account is that he specified that he was working with Oswald in 1957, and Oswald was taken out of action on October 27th, 1957, when he accidentally shot himself with a Derringer, and he was hospitalized for three weeks.
returned to Edude on November 20th just in time to ship out to Kube Point in the Philippines.
And he would not return to Japan until March 18th the following year. So Nagel and Oswald
working together to target Soviet Colonel Nikolai Eskoshin or Eskoshin, I'm bad at names.
It doesn't fit the timeline.
And also, it makes no sense that an 18-year-old Marine would be tasked with an espionage case.
Why would the CIA be like, yo, Nagel, we want you to grab this guy, Oswald, and then we want you to get this Russian colonel to defect to America.
And Nagel's like, sounds good, boss.
I often have 18-year-old Marines tagging along with me in my espionage missions, because that makes a lot of sense.
So, I mean- The whole story with Nagel is just, we are believing one man's wild claims, um, and kind of fitting that into the greater story of the JFK assassination, uh, when this guy's just fucking lying about, like, all this shit.
Um, yeah, so that was fun just to listen to a whole episode about a guy who, um, was pretty abusive towards his wife and, um, kind of had a shitty life and then shot up a bank.
And then after the fact eventually made up some shit and now we have to listen to a whole episode about this guy's wild claims that are all basic.
I was like waiting for a fucking backed up by fact.
On any of this I was just like are we just like listening to what this guy fucking said and a bunch of this shit just inconveniently disappeared before he could ever prove it or after he died it was all magically destroyed and it's just all a bunch of air of mystery and this whole story With Nagel is basically just like, it literally is so QAnon, it's like this big story happening behind the scenes, the Deep State is like fighting the monsters, there's a big story, you know, there's characters that are planning on killing one another, there's assassination plots happening, there's people planning on taking out those assassins, like there's assassins
on assassin fighting going on here. This is just, you can just say anything because there's no,
this is all just basically like this is what happened behind the scenes before
Kennedy got assassinated, but you don't know about it because it's secret.
And I'll skip to the end of the Nagel story in this podcast real quick because
what Haley is bringing up here is Nagel always claimed to have lots of evidence.
Rob Reiner talks about how he said he sent registered letters to all these different people.
No one's ever claimed they've seen these letters.
The big payoff at the end of the whole thing is that after Nagel dies, right before he is set to testify before the House subcommittee, right before he dies, he dies and then allegedly The container that had all his evidence that would bring the whole house of cards crumbling down.
His son was like, my house was broken into after my father died and then I rushed to the warehouse that contained the secret information and when I got there everything was undisturbed except for the container that had the secret information which had been taken and Oh, yeah.
Moroni had placed the information implicating the CIA in the assassination of Kennedy in a purple trunk.
And then unfortunately, it appeared that the CIA or Moroni spirited away the purple trunk before we could get our hands on it.
A lot of times in the episode we have Russert talking about how Nagel kept talking about all these dead man switches he had and how they can't kill me because they know if they kill me it'll all come out and that's how I'm one step ahead of them.
And then the payoff at the end is they kill him and then they grab the evidence and it doesn't come out.
So Nagel just loses to the CIA at the end of the story.
And the thing is is that Nagel He constantly talked about all this information.
He constantly talked about how he had all these things that could validate what he was talking about.
He claimed that he had a photo, he had somebody take a photo of himself with Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans.
But this photo has never surfaced.
He claimed that he had an audio recording of four people talking about the assassination of President Kennedy before it happened.
and how they were planning on doing and that this recording he would obviously release to verify his
claims. That recording never was revealed. It's never been found. This is something that is just
it's just constant.
And this is something that we see it so much with QAnon, with all these other like, what I call grand unifying conspiracy theories, where everything in the world is explained through the conspiracy theory, where people claim they have the evidence, but they never Reveal the evidence.
It's never shown to us.
It's a matter of faith.
It's like Frazzledrip.
One of these days, we're going to see the video of Hillary flaying that young girl and wearing her face as a mask.
It's that kind of stuff.
Well, I've interviewed a guy who's definitely seen it, okay?
And he was actually one of the video processors who saw the original video.
And here's my interview with him now.
Right, exactly.
Yeah, they came in with the 8mm version of Frazzledrip, and then I converted it to VHS and saved a copy.
Oh, God.
If only.
But this is, the thing about Nagel is that, oh, and another big thing is that if you actually follow Nagel's life after his traumatic brain injury, is that pretty much anywhere he goes in America, He hits up the local VA because he's got veterans benefits and he has rights to see the veterans hospitals.
And he never hit up the VA in New Orleans, which is really strange because that dude loved seeing doctors because he was hurting.
The guy was messed up.
And this was his stated reason for why he shot the bank up when he did.
Like, it wasn't, oh, I wanted to be away from Dallas or any of that.
When confronted about why he shot up the bank, he said, I want access to mental health.
Like, maybe if I go to prison, I can see some psychiatrists and they can talk to me and they can try to make my mental health better because I am deeply unwell.
I am hurting.
I am a hurting human being who feels like I have been discarded by society.
Which is really tragic.
And this part is presented.
When he shoots up the bank and just goes and sits down and waits for the police to come for him, as if obviously, you know, it's, it's part of the great Marvel cinematic story happening where like, uh, he had to do this because, um, you know, he knew he knew that the assassination was going to happen and he couldn't stop it.
Um, and it's like, Okay, that's a really interesting take of a man that's suffering from the lack of mental health care in this country and openly stating it at his arrest that he wanted health care.
kind of interesting take.
Yeah, I could not unmute myself.
Incredible professionalism.
I hate it when that happens.
Riverside was just like, nope, that mute button, not unmuted.
Go to hell.
But the other thing about this is that the whole story around Nagel doing this, the whole Because he has foreknowledge of the plot to kill Kennedy in Dallas and blame it on Lee Harvey Oswald, all of this is the most maddening part of the podcast series that I had heard up to this point.
And I don't even know if episode 8 breaks it.
Because this is absolutely the most Bizarre, convoluted, and incoherent narrative I could even imagine.
And basically what Rob Reiner and Dick Russert are telling us, and they're telling us this straight-faced, absolutely shamelessly, 100%, this is our story and we're sticking with it, is that The KGB... Nagel has infiltrated them, and the KGB now think that Nagel is part of their team.
And the KGB tell Nagel, okay, buddy, We have inside intelligence that elements of the CIA are going to attempt to assassinate President Kennedy.
And their most important asset to pull this mission off is Lee Harvey Oswald, a man you have worked with, the guy that you were hanging out with when you tried to get that colonel of ours to defect to your side.
But now you're on our side, so it's all good.
And So what we want you to do is kill Lee Harvey Oswald.
This will disrupt the CIA's plan to kill Kennedy and prevent the CIA from framing us for Kennedy's murder.
According to Rob Reiner, Nagel goes to Oswald and is like, yo, Lee, these people you're hanging out with and that you're working with, they're setting you up, dude.
They're going to screw you over.
They're going to frame you for killing the president in a little while.
And Oswald's all like, No way, man!
They're the coolest dudes!
They're the coolest dudes I know!
They're too cool for school!
I love my weird CIA bros!
They would never do that to me, daddy-o!
I'm Lee Harvey Oswald, the cool cat!
Nagel just pulls his hair out, walks away from Oswald, and is like, damn it, I couldn't convince Oswald that these people are setting him up for the biggest crime ever.
And I have to actually directly quote the podcast here.
And here we go.
It says, so what did the Soviets want Nagel to do?
They wanted him to take out Oswald.
You mean kill him?
Yes, they wanted him to take him out.
Perfect.
I quoted it and misread it, but it doesn't matter.
You know what I'm saying.
So, yes, Nagel was trapped.
His loyalty was to the United States.
He knew he couldn't do it.
But he also knew if he ordered the orders from the KGB, he was a dead man.
Now, when I heard that line, there was like a record skip in my brain.
And the first time I heard it, because I A peek behind the curtain here at the hell world creative process that I go through here.
I listen to these episodes once to let them wash over me, then I listen to them again a second time and take notes.
And usually when I'm letting them wash over me, I'm driving to or from work.
And when I heard that line about how his loyalty lied with the United States so he couldn't do it, I just wanted to aim for a telephone pole and just call him.
I just wanted to get the check.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
So the KGB tells you there is a plot to assassinate the President of the United States.
And that this plot is in motion.
The President is going to be killed in the very near future.
But this plot to kill the... I'm going to keep saying this over and over again because I really want this to sink in.
That this plot to kill the President of the United States hinges on one dude.
And if you kill that dude, the President will live.
And then you, Richard Case Nagle, are like, my loyalty lies with America.
I must let the President die.
That is your logic here?
That is your logic?
That your loyalty to America is so great the American president must be killed in order to... what?
To me, like, the way they explained it is that Reiner was basically saying that the KGB knew the CIA was going to kill Kennedy and frame Oswald, and they were doing this as a pretext to, like, stoke Cold War tensions between the two sides and maybe lead to a war.
And the KGB wanted Oswald killed so this wouldn't fucking happen.
And yet we are told Nagle's deep and abiding loyalty to America was so great that he, again, had to let Kennedy get shot.
Which, this makes no sense.
Like, I don't care that the quote-unquote bad guys, the KGB, are telling you about the plot to kill the President.
Like, if somebody went up to me and was like, yo, Mr. Raines, some people are going to kill the President, and we would like you to prevent them from doing it.
And I'd be like, how can I prevent them from killing the president?
They'd be like, kill this person that you are associated with.
And I'd be like, oh, okay.
And they're like, by the way, we are the bad guys.
We're actually terrible people.
We are, I don't know, Al Qaeda plus ISIS plus whoever, whatever villains you want.
And we're also members of North Korean intelligence.
And I'd still be like, so in order to head off this confrontation between you guys and these rogue elements in the American government, I have to kill this person to prevent them from killing the president.
And they're like, yes.
And I'd be like, okay, I will kill that person then.
That sounds like a great idea because I don't want the American president to be assassinated It wouldn't even matter if it was Trump!
Like, I mean, if Trump was the president and these people were like, kill this person to keep Trump alive because things will go to shit if it doesn't work, I'd be like, damn it, I have to save Donald Trump.
This sucks.
Screw you for putting me in this position, you evil people.
I'd let it happen.
Well, you're doing the triple reverse loyalty to America.
But that's the whole thing about this is just the idea that, again, in this story, John
F. Kennedy is our greatest hero.
He is the ultimate champion.
He is the peace president.
He is saving the world through his existence and his presidency.
Kennedy is the objectively best good guy in the world.
Of all the good boys in the world, President Kennedy is the goodest boy.
We scritch his ears and we feed him treats all the time.
He's such a good boy.
And Richard Case Nagle is told the goodest boy will die if he doesn't kill a moron.
And Nagle's like, I can't do it.
I can't kill them all.
Some skinny twig, abusive to his wife.
Annoying, annoyingly debating Marxism.
I can't, I can't murder this wife-beating lunatic communist nutball who thinks he's king shit.
Can't do it.
There's no way I can do it.
Like, literally, if Nagel kills Oswald, Kennedy lives, the CIA's plan is destroying all of this.
And the fact that there's this really important part is that after they say that, They don't even do what we're doing, where we're like theorycrafting how that plays out.
Because I think on some level Reiner and Russert and Soledad know that if they actually started branching out the trees, like the decision trees afterwards, it makes Nagel's story look so terrible that they're like, no, we can't even discuss it.
We just literally have to say that Nagel can't kill Oswald because reasons.
Which is and it's ridiculous and let's just even say that Nagel for whatever reason couldn't kill Oswald.
Just like his code of ethics whatever he couldn't kill Oswald.
Why is shooting up the bank and why are shooting up the bank his play?
Why is putting himself in jail the play?
Like, again, we're just going to say that Officer Bundren's statement was 100% accurate, that Nagel was like, I don't want to be in Dallas.
Wouldn't Nagel...
So now Nagle has all the information.
He knows Oswald's going to be framed for the assassination of President Kennedy.
He knows it's going to happen in Dallas.
He's just waiting.
He knows five days before the fact that it's even announced.
Which I can't get over.
I just can't get over that.
It's so silly.
Let's just take all of that at face value.
Okay, now I'm Richard Case Nagle, and for some reason, I will not just kill Oswald.
We'll just make that a baseline thing.
I'm Batman, I'm not going to kill Oswald.
So now, I wait, and I hear about Kennedy's planned trip to Texas, and I see that Kennedy is going to arrive in Dallas on the 22nd.
So I get into town on the 21st, I find Lee Harvey Oswald at his job at the Texas Public Depository, And then I'm like, yo Lee, so the president's gonna be in
town tomorrow. And Lee's like, yeah, he is. What of it? And then I'm like, I happen to
have $2,000 here. Why don't you give your wife some of this money? And then why don't you
like, I don't know, take a trip?
Go somewhere else.
Just tell your boss that you're sick and you're not going to be in the work tomorrow and you're just not here.
And you just have this delicious thousand or so dollars worth of money for yourself.
And then Oswald's like, uh, okay.
And then you've bought Oswald off.
He's nowhere near the Texas School Book Depository on November 22nd.
We've got The assassins lining up, and then Steve, assassin lackey and guy that's trying to keep track of all the chess pieces of the chessboard.
Steve runs over to Jim, the guy who's running the assassination plot, and Steve's like, Jim!
Jim!
Oswald didn't show up to work today!
And Jim's like, damn it!
It's all gone to hell!
Abort mission!
Abort!
Abort!
And all the assassins are like, aww, we didn't kill the president today, this sucks!
and they all slink away from Dilly Plaza and then Kennedy just rides through and nothing happens
and the world is better. Like that could have happened.
Peace. Yeah. Or Oswald could have told Nagel to pound sand on the 21st and then on the morning of
the 22nd as Oswald's walking to a car with a large bag under his arm, totally inconspicuous, Nagel's
like, hey Lee, I told you to leave.
And Lee's like, no.
And then Nagel, like, takes out his, like, brass knuckles and goes BAM!
And just punches Oswald in the head.
And sucker punches him to the ground.
And then gives him a couple for the road.
And then grabs the package and runs away with it.
And then, again, Jim and Steve have the same conversation, only this time Oswald's in the hospital with a broken orbital bone.
And no assassination, world save.
Nagle has a million ways to play this that save President Kennedy.
What I don't understand about this is that why does Nagle ruin his connections to the KGB?
Nagle is working for the CIA.
As a double agent under the KGB, and the KGB tells him, yo, kill Oswald.
Stop this assassination.
Does Nagle go to his CIA case officer?
Is he worried that his case officer is compromised?
Like, Nagle could go to the Army Intelligence.
He could go anywhere.
He could explain the situation to more people and try to have this thing resolved.
He could implicate Oswald to an intelligence community that might be able to interdict this thing and stop it.
But Nagel literally gets told to kill Oswald and stop the assassination of President Kennedy, and he's like, I can't do it.
The only way out I see here is to shoot him a bank.
It's the only way!
It's the only play I got!
There's no other play!
I just have to put myself in jail!
And, like, I imagine that CIA, his CIA handler is like, yo, Nagel, why did you put yourself in jail?
And Nagel's like, uh, I can't talk about it, boss.
He's like, what do you mean?
You're a double agent!
You work for me!
And he's like, oh yeah, well, the KGB told me to, you know, kill Lee Harvey Oswald because he's working for you to kill Kennedy.
Sullivan had the funniest line during this bit.
she was like, talk about being in a rockin' hard place.
That really was pretty hard.
Like, yeah, that's the way I'm putting it, I guess.
The thing about that...
The thing about that for me is that it's not a rock and a hard place.
For me, it's like, imagine being between a rock and the softest, most comfortable bed you could ever imagine.
Like, I mean, it's just like, I don't understand it.
Because to me, Stopping Oswald from the plan, that's just a win-win-win for everybody!
You make your KGB handler happy.
Your CIA handler who's got you working as a double agent for the KGB is happy that you further ingratiated yourself to the KGB and could do more missions.
You've saved the president's life.
You've done a lot of great things here.
And instead, Nagel opts for option Z on the scale, which is throw yourself in prison.
Let the president die!
I just don't understand.
It's so dumb!
Like, if they had approached this story with, like, Nagel knew something was up, but he didn't know what.
Nagel, fearing for his own safety and wondering if he could be implicated in the assassination, decided to throw himself in jail as a way to give himself an airtight alibi against what would happen in Dallas.
If you said that, I'd be like, dumb, but plausible.
The story they gave us is absolute bonkers.
Cause they're literally telling us that Nagel has not, he has complete foreknowledge of the assassination up to who the alleged assassin will be and where the assassination is going to happen.
Because as we have brought up many times here, Lee Harvey Oswald cannot drive.
He literally is very stationary unless he has to grab a cab to go somewhere.
So Oswald's options for president killing are incredibly limited.
Either Kennedy has to drive by his boarding house, Ruth Payne's house, or the Texas School Book Depository.
Otherwise, Oswald's going to need to bum a ride to go murder the president.
He's a bad driver?
No license.
Never got a license.
Never learned how to drive.
Shut up.
Man.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And that's the other thing is that like, why?
Why would the CIA invest in such a lousy assassin?
Can't even drive.
Can't even drive!
You're like, oh, we got this assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.
He's great.
And it's like, okay, so tell him to be here at this time.
Well, we'll have to get a car for him.
He can't drive.
The cab's late and the bus is behind schedule.
So can he catch the light rail?
Exactly!
Exactly!
There's no Uber at the time.
Our incredibly deadly assassin who needs public transportation to get anywhere.
The bus is late.
Kennedy passed an hour ago.
Exactly. The right way you just said.
Literally, the way Oswald gets to work is his buddy Walt Frazier drives him to work.
You're Richard Case Nagle.
You know this.
You slashed Walt Frazier's tires that morning.
Oswald can't get to work.
You have saved the president.
There's a million ways you could have done this.
Just make him a little late.
Yeah.
Just make him a little late.
You don't have to kill the guy.
Yeah, you don't have to kill the guy.
But again, uh just pull like pull the pull the pull the battery out of out of the guy's car something anything just i can't make it into work boss my car got vandalized and now we can't try get in either because he needs me to bum a ride
Like the great claim is that he's like a CIA top secret army intelligence like secret operation officer and it's like you didn't think to just slash some tires maybe or make him a little late for work that day?
Just couldn't come up with anything.
Get him with the flu gun?
You know, make him a little sick for a couple weeks?
Like anything?
Anything!
Anything!
Frame him for some minor crime.
Lock him up.
Yeah, just lock him up.
Literally just call some Dallas police, lie about an outstanding warrant for Lee Harvey Oswald on the 21st.
The cops grab him on the 21st, throw him in jail.
He makes bail at 5 p.m.
the next day.
Kennedy's through.
He lives.
I mean, it's just... This is...
The dumbest thing they have said in this podcast.
And it is so incredible because after this ad break, we're going to tell you about the even dumber thing they hit us with almost immediately after, which made my head explode like Kennedy's.
It was really bad.
And now the ad break and now the big payoff afterwards.
And we're back.
And after Nagel's dumb nonsense, suddenly Rob Reiner and crew get into Operation Northwoods, which is the weirdest segue that makes no sense in this story.
Now in the movie JFK, Oliver Stone crafts a very quick, very tight narrative, which is simply, Kennedy was going to get us out of Vietnam, they murdered him, Johnson escalated the war.
Boom.
That's all we needed to know.
Kennedy was murdered at the behest of the military-industrial complex so that they could get their beloved war in Vietnam.
And Reiner and company hint at that a bunch in this series.
They talk about the executive order Kennedy signed to withdraw 1,000 troops, blah, blah, blah.
Then Johnson rescinds the executive order, puts the troops back in, boo, boo, boo, hiss.
And they play around that a bit.
And that's, again, that is a narrative you can sell.
You can sell that to people.
But then, they do this bonkers thing with Operation Northwoods, where they explain that Operation Northwoods was a plan to instigate a confrontation with Cuba via false flags.
Basically, they wanted a genuine excuse to attack Cuba.
They wanted to do something bad and then blame it on Cuba to get the American people all gung-ho for a war with Cuba and the Soviet Union.
And that's the gist.
That's the plan.
And they then bring up that Kennedy rejected this, which he did.
And Operation Northwoods never went anywhere.
But in the Reinerverse, they're like, oh no, Operation Northwoods took a darker, even more sinister turn when they decided that Northwoods, Kennedy, to get their war with Cuba.
So, um, I'm gonna go through my American history book.
Look, uh, November 22, 1963, President Kennedy got popped in the head!
So, um, when does that war with Cuba happen?
1964?
1965?
1966?
Man, I'm going through all these pages of my American History book.
I do not see this war with Cuba that they got from killing Kennedy.
I'm sure it's in there somewhere because Rob Reiner told me that's why they did this, that we murdered Kennedy to get a war with Cuba.
Oh, wait, that didn't happen.
Why did you say- He was developed as a false flag assassin, to blame Cuba, was I believe the line.
Right.
He was developed as a false flag assassin.
That's- Right.
To blame Cuba.
But it's like, wow, that's a wild line.
Right.
I mean, that was the whole quote unquote sheep dipping thing.
Sheep dipped?
Sheep dipped.
And again, that unbelievably inorganic conversation they had.
Horrible.
Don't gun for the Emmy on your podcast series.
Oh, they so are gonna.
Yeah.
What makes this so dumb and what makes this so infuriating to me is that back in my day, all poker, all Mark Rains, neck deep in the Kennedy assassination since the 1990s, since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I was obsessed with this shit.
I am so old, I remember when people talked about how the Warren Commission was used as a way to crush actual investigations into the Kennedy assassination by pinning it on Oswald because the great fear of the Warren Commission was that evidence would come out implicating Cuba or the Soviet Union with killing Kennedy and if that happened, we were all fucked and it would be World War III.
They do bring this up a little bit in this podcast series, but they mostly just state that Warren was bullied by Lyndon Johnson into doing the Warren Commission.
But I don't think they actually use the quote, because the big quote that I've seen from Lyndon Johnson to Earl Warren was, if you don't do this, 20 million Americans will die.
And what that implication was is that If you don't investigate this, pin it on Oswald, and let us all walk away from this thing, no muss, no fuss, some assholes may start poking around, and if they find any implications of a Cuban or Soviet connection to Kennedy's death, that's World War III, and we're all dead.
So, on the one hand, you've got this idea that The assassination of President Kennedy was done in the interest of ginning up a war against the Soviet Union and Cuba.
And on the other side, you literally have conspiracy theorists saying the Warren Commission thought they were justified in quelling honest investigations into the Kennedy assassination for fear of a war against Cuba and the Soviet Union.
So you got to pick one.
You can't have both.
To have both as options is to reject logic and sanity.
Either this was done to instigate a war against the Cubans or the fear of war with Cuba was so
great that let the CIA and the FBI slip away with the murder they just committed.
Um there's a part where Soledad literally asks like so there's no smoking gun.
Cause there's nothing in this episode.
There's not, this is a, this is a, this is a pointless episode practically.
I mean, it's important to understand the eventual narrative that Rob Reiner will craft, but you're literally just, this whole episode is about a guy who lied Yeah, this whole episode is literally about a guy who lied.
And what Soledad is talking about in that spot is she's talking about how there's still a few files that have not been released by the JFK Assassination Review Board, and that every president has not released them.
Trump didn't release them.
Biden hasn't released them.
And Russert and Reiner both are like, yeah, there's probably nothing really big in there anymore.
And they even then go a step beyond and they're like, yeah, if there had been anything big in there, they would have destroyed it a long time ago.
We're never going to pay anybody to throw it out there.
OCA would have destroyed it a long time ago.
Right.
As much as they destroyed the purple trunk that had Nagel's smoking gun evidence and the golden plates from the Angel Moroni.
We get a Clinton body count kind of in this too, but it's JFK body count, which we talked about this at the JFK Sixth Floor Museum, because they had like, magazine clipping or newspaper clipping um on the wall and it was um it was because not everything at the JFK museum was like factual some of it was showing the conspiracies and um the many narratives
And there was one piece on one of the walls that was playing into like the JFK body count thing where a ton of key witnesses to the assassination were mysteriously found dead.
They do that in this episode.
They do that.
They just kind of name drop people.
Uh, the mob boss, John Roselli, they're, they don't even go into it.
They just name, they're just like, he was found in an oil barrel.
And that's, that's it.
They don't explain why he was a key witness or why his death was done by the CIA or whoever they're blaming.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Joey Roselli was going to testify before the House Select Committee on Assassinations.
The next day he was found chopped to pieces in an oil drum.
And they don't bring up the fact that the House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated his death and did not determine that it had anything to do with the Kennedy assassination.
It had to do with the fact that he's a mob boss and that they live violent lives and get killed that way every now and then.
Yeah, literally, it's like the most mob boss way to die.
And then, obviously, they play into the fact that Nagel died, and they definitely make it sound like he was capped.
And I...
I thought it was kind of funny that Dick Russell is explaining this and he, he kind of, it kind of sounds like he's taking the, taking a little bit of responsibility for, for getting this guy murdered in their little story.
Cause he says that, um, the assassinations record review board heard him talking about Nagel at a conference and then they called him for an interview and then he was found dead the day after the subpoena arrived.
Oh yeah, yeah, exactly.
And they bring up him, they bring up DeMorne Schmidt, and then Reiner just says this thing like, 18 witnesses died within three years.
Why is that a throwaway line?
Why do you not go through all these witnesses and explain what happened to them?
Shouldn't that be its own episode, maybe?
Right!
Like, literally!
Like, the JFK Body Count episode!
That should be super important!
Of course, that JFK Body Count episode would actually be about, like, 5,000 women because JFK had sex with anything, glue, anything in school.
That would be... Ah!
Body Count, the way people use it nowadays!
Topical!
Double entendre!
Oh, I think Mike Rains, the cleverest boy!
Sparkle in my eyes!
Yeah.
You just, you throw that out there just as red meat for people, and you don't want it actually looked into when you do that.
And I might dig into the JFK body count in episode seven, because episode seven sucks again.
We're gonna have to punch it up.
But this episode, I mean, I, to me, it's just really wild.
That you take Nagel so seriously and you take what he said as absolutely the gospel and all that good stuff, and yet you don't actually think about what he was saying and what ridiculous nonsense he was bringing to the table.
Because, man, it is the dumbest, weirdest, most stressful thing For me to think about that.
Just the whole story that Nagel lays out there is so implausible and so incoherent that it really just strains credulity.
I mean, it's just something where if you had listened to the first five episodes of this series with an open mind and you were buying into these people, When you hear that Nagle can't kill Oswald due to his deep abiding loyalty to America,
Like that should be disqualifying.
You should just listen to that and then just be like, you know, no, no.
Like Rob and Soledad have gone off the wheels here.
I'm out.
I'm done.
Oswald acted alone.
Like you should just reject this so aggressively.
You should just be like, no, I cashed you away.
It should be like drinking spoiled milk.
You should just spit it out of your mouth and like just push the bottle off the table and be like, no, I, I can, I, I, Condemn thee!
I reject thee!
I rebuke thee!
It's just the most bizarre, incoherent narrative I could ever imagine.
It's just such a strange thing that happened.
Oh, one other thing that was really funny was during this whole episode, They bring up that Jim Garrison vouched for Nagel.
Jim Garrison thought that Nagel was great.
Jim Garrison is terrible.
Oliver Stone turning that guy into a hero in the movie JFK is one of the most disgraceful things Hollywood has ever done.
Jim Garrison was just a headline chasing crank who just wanted to see himself on TV.
I'm gonna bet that Rob Reiner and Soledad O'Brien in the last two episodes are not gonna state that Jim Garrison's opening theory for the Kennedy assassination was that it was quote-unquote a homosexual thrill killing.
Cool.
That probably wouldn't age well in the modern era.
Yeah, Garrison got into the whole CIA Vietnam stuff, but at the start of the whole thing, basically Garrison's working theory was that the gays hated Kennedy because he was just so handsome and virile and had young children.
Because he was able to procreate.
And so this just, basically, we had the Virgin Gays versus the Chad JFK.
And the Virgin Gays were like, we're gonna murder that guy because he has a lot of sex.
We don't like it.
And it's like, spoiler alert, Jim Garrison, gay people have lots of sex too.
That's how that works.
When two guys get together, they skip the small talk because they're men.
Men like to screw.
But yeah, the fact that Reiner was just like, Jim Garrison!
It's like, oh boy, you should probably not bring up Jim Garrison at all.
Because again, if you dig into JFK, maybe we should do that next.
Like, we should just keep this going for forever and just get into all the JFK nut and ball shit.
JFK the movie is terrible and bad and wrong.
But yeah, so boy howdy.
Like, do not use Jim Garrison as one of your character witnesses.
That is a great way to impugn your own credibility.
So thanks a lot. Yeah, thanks. And yeah, the and then at the very end of the episode, literally saw that
reads a document.
Because again, the episode was like 80% Russert and Reiner.
And they just have Solid Ed read something.
And then Russert talks for a little bit, and then he makes her do it again!
And then he asks her to read another thing!
And I was just like, oh my god, this is so patronizing!
I hate it so much!
It's the most infuriating thing they do on this end.
It just feels like...
They are producing a podcast that is a monologue, because it's mostly just Russert.
It's either Russert speaking or Reiner speaking, and they're not speaking conversationally.
They're just speaking as a professor teaching to a class.
There's no intent for a conversation to be had.
And then the producers realize, oh wait, we have this award-winning mainstream journalist who's agreed to sign her name onto this project, this poor woman.
And they feel the need to throw it to her every so often.
And it's always so awkward and stilted that it just, it's just like, man, this is not right.
It's the opposite of great.
It's perhaps even bad.
Mm-hmm.
I really have nothing left to say about this episode because it was just a one man's lie, the episode.
I'm still waiting for them to bring up the other attempted assassination of a politician that Oswald was involved with, the Edwin Walker, but that is so far... Yeah, he was a general, not a politician, and they're never gonna bring it up.
They're never going to bring it up.
I mean, I at this point where I'm listening through eight episodes and episode nine is Jack Ruby and then episode 10 is who actually killed Kennedy.
So it doesn't.
And again, these episodes are like about a half hour long plus ads.
So it's like I truly cannot imagine that they have the time nor inclination to bring up anything else beyond what they've done.
So yeah, we're never gonna get any talk about Edwin Walker.
When they get into J.D.
Tippett, oh boy.
Episode 8, they just handwave away J.D.
Tippett's murder.
And then J.D.
Tippett got killed.
What happened?
Shrug emoji.
They know how bad that looks if Oswald killed a cop right before he got arrested.
So they don't even try to get into it.
And that's the thing that really, as Haley has brought up, is that this is a show that is really all about absolving bad people of terrible things.
Lee Harvey Oswald was an awful piece of shit.
And the fact that we have this 10-part podcast series trying to frame him in a positive light is really weird and bizarre.
I mean, either the episode before this or the one before that, they had this one part where they were just all like, And then the press, they said that Oswald defected to Russia and he was a communist.
He was a bad person.
And it made me sad because in reality, Oswald was a CIA agent working for Mom to flag it up by doing what they told him to do.
It's like, why are you doing this?
Why are you trying to like pump up Oswald's bona fides as a good person when he's not?
He's a piece of shit.
Oh my God.
It's just, it's just really, really strange.
It's just, uh, just this really bizarre thing that they did.
And, and they're still doing it.
I mean, it's just like, that's the kind of thing that we have going on here.
So that was episode six.
It was terrible.
Uh, and it had the really weirdest thing in it where they concocted this story about Nagel.
And Nagel is powerless to stop the assassination of President Kennedy when he has all the information anyone would need to stop it.
Literally.
If you gave a seven-year-old child this information, they could have saved Kennedy's life.
We could make a Disney movie about this and save Kennedy.
It's really incoherent.
So I hope you enjoyed this.
I hope you enjoyed Episode 7.
Episode 7, we will try to punch it up.
It's not great.
And then strap in for Episode 8.
Because Episode 8, out of control.
Just absolutely nuts.
And I can't wait until Episodes 9 and 10.
I've had spoiler alerts that The grassy knoll may not be where the fatal shot was fired from.
Is Rob Reiner going to go storm drain?
Are we getting storm drain?
I'm so excited.
That would be wild.
So yeah, I'm going to listen to 9 and 10 probably this week.
So next week, maybe I'll do like a little lead in for them as well.
Because again, I'm going to have to do something for next week's episode, because it's not going to be great.
Episode 8, incredible.
And I'm sure 9 and 10 are going to be wild.
Episode 9 is about Jack Ruby.
I wonder if they're going to tell us about the fact that Ruby had a timestamp from Western Union four minutes before he shot Oswald.
So, like, literally he was not in position in any way, shape, or form and he had to luck out to make it to Oswald in time to kill him.
We'll see.
Cause I will give Haley a little spoiler.
I'll give you all a little spoiler here for episode eight.
They actually brought up the wedding ring and the money that Oswald left his wife.
They actually did it.
Wow.
They actually admitted that like the, they actually gave one bad piece of evidence against Oswald.
So yeah, we'll get into all that in the next two weeks.
