John Burroughs, a U.S. Air Force veteran stationed at RAF Bentwaters in 1980, details the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident—Boxing Day sightings of a triangular craft emitting terahertz radiation, linked to seven global coordinates and later confirmed by CIA declassified remote viewing. His health declined post-exposure (AFib, heart valve damage), with classified military records blocking access even via FOIA. In 1988’s Mendelsham Forest follow-up, Burroughs describes missing time, laser grids, and entities warning of future tech risks like warp drive, while British MOD admits hiding 18 files despite transparency claims. Now, he warns humanity must unite to prevent "divide and conquer" tactics amid looming crises, suggesting Rendlesham’s eerie parallels—from hypnosis revelations to redacted military projects—are critical clues for survival. [Automatically generated summary]
Or maybe I should have said there's Rendlesham, and then there's Roswell, and then there's everything else.
Tonight you'll meet the man who was the most involved at Rendlesham.
So that'll be coming up.
It's John Burroughs, and you're not going to want to miss it, trust me.
All right, so the rules of the program, simple, no bad language, one call per show.
That's it.
Those are the rules.
And white crow, its coordinates, plus one.
Listen, everybody, I've got a new public page.
Now, that is a kind of a pretty cool place because I can have more than 5,000 friends, associates, fellow travelers, whatever you call yourselves.
And so you should immediately go to that.
Now, you can get there by going to my regular Facebook page and or, I suppose you could look it up.
It would come up as Art Bell51.
Pretty cool, actually, because that mirrors my Twitter account, Art Bell51.
Anyway, it's a new public page.
It's going to be the center of a whole lot real soon.
There will be information.
So you want to get there.
Go to my old page, click on one of the links, go to Art Bell51, whatever.
And don't forget, if you are not yet a time traveler with us, what in the world are you waiting for?
It gives you the ability to listen to all the old programs, the ones we have done thus far, as well as each new one each night.
So if you're stuck for a little time, you can download.
You know, the RSS feeds, download, boom, like that.
If you've got even a half decent internet, they are fast.
And then you've got minus commercials and all the music and everything, probably about two hours and 20 minutes of pure D entertainment.
So it's worth it from that point of view.
And of course, the wormhole that you send messages during the program for me and or the guest.
Well, the fallout from the debates is over.
The apparent victor, Carly Fiorina.
And so she has gone from being the apparent victor to the apparent recipient of money.
That's how it works in politics, right?
Money.
If you are perceived as, ooh, you did well.
Maybe you're a winner.
Let's give that person money.
And then we will have influence.
Now, I don't say that just to Carly, but, you know, it's true of all of them, right?
Give me money and you will have influence.
You heard about the big earthquake, right?
Horrible in Chile.
We still don't know really how horrible, but there are about 11 dead.
Should have been a lot more for something this size, you know, an 8-plus earthquake.
There were small tsunamis, fishing nets tangled in trees, and again, 11 dead.
But, you know, it should have been much worse.
There was a very tiny amount of havoc, actually, for such a powerful quake.
And a quick word about dolphins.
This lady, researcher, Susan Casey, who I really want to talk to, thinks that dolphins have a collective consciousness.
Isn't that interesting?
Now, dolphin brains are bigger than ours.
They may, in fact, be more intelligent than human beings in certain ways, in ways that, of course, we don't necessarily understand.
But I have always thought this of dolphins.
Dolphins frequently save humans.
They drive predators away from humans.
That is a thought.
I don't think that's an instinct.
That is a thought.
They care about human beings.
The day will come, perhaps not while I am alive, but I promise you, we will begin to form a new attitude toward animals.
And we will treat them differently as we learn.
Or maybe most of us will try and stay in blissful ignorance in favor of quarter-pounders, which, by the way, I love.
Pretty bad, huh?
So, as I said at the beginning of the show, Top of the Show, you know, there's Rendlesham, there's Roswell, and then there's like everything else.
So, I guess the main character, the character most in the middle of everything, was John Burroughs.
He's here tonight.
He was born in Bloomington, Illinois, back in 1960, joined the U.S. Air Force right after high school graduation, Yay Air Force, received orders to go to RAF Bentwaters, England, arrived there in 1979, 18 months before the strange encounter in the Rendlesham Forest.
That was between RAF Bentwaters and nearby RAF Woodbridge.
During that time, John worked as an Air Force police officer, AP actually, says nothing strange ever happened.
That is until midnight, December 26th of 1980.
Now, John Burroughs' account of Rindelsham has been featured worldwide.
It's been on a number of TV and radio networks.
On December 26th and 28th of 1980, an account by John as the only witness involved with both nights of the investigation of a craft of unknown origin adjacent to the East Gate of RAF Woodbridge.
Mr. Burroughs will discuss the pursuit, investigation, findings, and aftermath of the report.
This is indeed DeMothery's best documented and most witnessed case in history.
I was also Air Force, so really happy to have you on the program, John.
You know, as I said, and I think I'm right, there's Rendlesham, there's Roswell, and then there's like everything else out there.
So this is a monster of a case.
I guess I would ask you to take me through it in detail from your first awareness of it or where you want to start and through the entire affair so that everybody understands what really happened.
We came on duty at 11 o'clock, 2,300 on the 25th, and about 0,300 on the morning of the 26th, which is Boxing Day in the UK of 1980.
I was riding around with my supervisor who had met up with me about a half an hour prior, wanted to ride around and talk for a little bit.
It was just, you know, Christmas night into Boxing Day morning.
As we were driving down to check the East Gate, which is at the east end of the perimeter of Woodbridge Base, he saw something that he later said it didn't crash.
It landed, come down out of the sky, and it appeared to land in the forest.
And he got my attention, and he told me to look out in that direction.
I'd been there almost two years.
He had just gotten there.
So I'd been down there at night during alerts and other things, when it was dark like that and everything else.
And the first thing he wanted to know from me was, well, have you ever seen anything like that before?
And at that point, I could see something in the forest itself.
It was kind of lit up, white lights.
As I tried to describe over the years, it almost looked like a Christmas light display, different coloring lighting and everything else that was down in the forest itself.
So we decided, both of us, that there was something that wasn't right out there, but it was off-base.
And what did we want to do with it?
So we came together and decided, well, we'll go down to the end of the road.
So we're going to have to leave the base.
We opened up the gate and we drove down to the end of the road before you would turn left to Bentwaters or right would take you to one of the small towns down the road.
So we went ahead and went down to the end of the road.
There was a way you could turn the car back around and he turned it around as such so we were starting to go back towards the road that led up to the gate.
I jumped out of the vehicle and I looked out into the forest.
I don't know how to explain it other than it just didn't seem right.
All of a sudden it was like we were vulnerable.
We were sitting out there off base.
The lights were there.
And at one point it almost looked like this all happened really quickly.
Like maybe it was starting to come towards us.
There was like a static electricity in the air and it just didn't seem right.
And here we were off the base, hadn't told anybody, and we didn't know what was going to happen next.
So I jumped back in the vehicle and we took off back up to the gate, drove as fast as we could back up to the gate, went up, there's a gate shack up there, went up to the gate shack, parked the vehicle, and then we decided we better call it in.
So went ahead and got on the phone.
The phone went to the law enforcement desk.
So I got the desk sergeant on the phone, and I told him that there was something strange just outside the, you know, the Eastgate, you know, at Woodbridge that was out in the force, and we can't explain it.
We wanted to report it.
And it was Christmas night, and, you know, it's a Boxing Day morning.
I played practical jokes over the last year on the Death Sergeant himself.
He kind of didn't want to believe me.
And we kind of went back and forth a little bit.
Even Sergeant Steffens got on and told him there was something strange going on.
And again, I'd pull some jokes on him.
So he was a little leery to bite for it.
So, what he did was transfer me to CSC, which is Central Security Control, which was the security side of the house where they took care of the airplanes and stuff like that.
And got the controller on the phone and told him that there was something strange out in the forest.
We couldn't explain it, that we wanted to notify the shift commander of what was going on.
So they went ahead and they found him, started talking to him behind the scenes.
At the same time, they notified the security supervisor at Woodbridge, which would have been Sergeant Penniston, that he needed to respond down to the Eastgate and to check out what we were dealing with.
Sometimes it was more, the white light would get brighter.
And at one point while we were standing at the gate, the white light itself seemed to almost come to the edge of the forest to where the road was.
And within the white light, and it even looked a little like orangish or huge, there was different colored lighting in it, which would have been red, blue, and green.
And I always tried early on to describe it.
It looked like some kind of Christmas light display.
Yes, when we first went down and left the base, when I got out of the vehicle, the hair on the back of my head stood up and there was like an electric charge.
And he could feel it inside the vehicle itself.
In other words, immediately it was like, oh, let's get out of here.
Let's get back up here and report what's going on.
Because they did notify the British police, they did notify the British Fire Department, but because it was close to the base, the fact that there had been radar contact, they felt that maybe something had crashed.
Now, it wasn't being labeled as aliens or UFOs at that point, but there was some kind of object that may have went down and crashed into the forest area.
Well, look, it seems to me that if something came down that close to the base, it was observed on radar, then you almost, it seems to me, had a duty to find out what the hell it was.
No, I agree, but that's a catch-all point that people kind of overlook.
We didn't just go out there to go out there.
There was something there that we, in other words, if all we saw was lights outside the perimeter fencing, they wouldn't have sent us out.
But because there was radar contact, that was the defining point of why the shift commander authorized us to leave the base to include contacting the command post and certain people were notified of what was going on.
He wrote out a certain amount of pages after the event, right after the event, and they did surface in 2010 from within his notebook, and they were deciphered, and there was a message, and there were some coordinate sites within it also.
I don't have it right in front of me, but it had to do with mankind itself.
There were seven locations, three of them in the western side of the world, three on the other side over in the European area, Egypt, China, and in Greece.
And then the three in the northern hemisphere would be there'd be one in Central America, one in South America, and one in Arizona, in the southwest in Arizona.
It's something that has just surfaced now in the last couple weeks or three weeks that kind of reinforced the fact that there was a notebook and some of this happened.
The interesting thing was that after the event, after the three days, there was three nights of events, when I met with him on Sunday night because we rode together to work, he talked about something was bugging him and he couldn't shake it.
And it would be something that if he talked about it, would get him in trouble.
He also did some hypnosis in, I believe, the mid-90s.
And in it, in the hypnosis, it comes out that there was a binary download.
It comes out under hypnosis.
But the third piece of this puzzle that's kind of mind-blowing to me is that the CIA declassified some documents in 2000.
But within these documents, there was a remote view done by Lynn Buchanan.
And this remote view was done in 1986, prior to Jim and I going public.
The subject is Rendlesham, probably the military's best documented, most witnessed case in all history.
John Burroughs is here.
He was there each night of the event.
And we were talking about the actually the CIA when we left.
And there is one quick question before we get back to that, John.
When you approach something like that and you have no memory past a certain point, and now I'm asking you, what I'm going to ask you is sort of if you can search your own mind and you can recall, I mean, is it like a wall suddenly came down in your mind?
I'm sure you've thought of this a billion times, trying to figure out when your memory went and how it went, or was it a slow fade or like that?
What can you remember of the moment that you began not remembering?
I would say early on, I didn't spend much time on it.
We got debriefed.
We got told to let it go.
If there was anything more they needed from us, let it go.
A lot of the stuff that's come up over the years, going back and trying to remember it, I don't remember, but I've never had a memory of any of other than getting close to it twice.
I know the second time I got close to it, it really bothered me more than the first time.
But the first time, it didn't come clear to what happened with what Penniston remembered until later on when he came out and started talking about some of it, which I couldn't remember.
But then you can go back to the third night when I was out there and I got close to it again.
The same exact thing happened to me on the third night that the first night.
I got close to it.
The next thing you know, it was gone, whatever it was.
Well, where I was at was that the interesting part, and I totally understand why people question the notebook, some of the stuff that Jim's talked about.
I mean, it didn't come out.
The notebook itself, the first time I heard of it, was I think right around 2000.
That would have been the 20-year anniversary.
And he did a sci-fi piece with Brian Gumbel, and the notebook came out, the glyphs came out.
Then 10 years after that, when we were getting ready to do the 30th anniversary, the codes showed up.
But here's something that you can't discredit.
In 1986, a remote view was done by Lynn Buchanan, and Ed Dames was the facilitator of it.
And there was follow-up remote views done afterwards, too.
What he, the report that was released by the CIA, when I say CIA, was declassified in a bunch of documents, but this was found within these documents.
A lot of what he talks about in that remote view in 1986, way before Penniston talked about any of this, or even some of the stuff that I talked about hadn't come out.
Okay, I was asked, I just gotten out of active duty, and I was asked by the producer of the show and executive producer, Kurt Brubaker, to do, to maybe go on the show.
So I met with him.
Then this whole thing came up about, not the first night, because that wasn't in, hadn't come out yet, but what happened on the third night when I was running towards it with Adrian Vicenza?
So we finally got around to the point where they convinced me, why not go into hypnosis just to see if anything comes out?
Find out later on Bob Emmenegger was behind this and that whole group of that and actually ended up getting shopped around to the intelligence agencies to include some other people in SRI.
But ultimately, I go under hypnosis and I remember going into it, that it was actually the life form itself.
And it was able to communicate with us telepathically to include the fact that when I met up with Colonel Halt before Adrian and I went forward, that there was a telepathic communications between Colonel Halt and whatever this was.
And the fact was that it actually Halt felt that I needed to go out there because it wanted me to go out there to meet back up with it for the second time.
Well, I'm personally a little concerned about nuclear weapons, but beyond that, I can see that there would be danger for those of us living on this earth and not very far down the line either at the rate we're going.
Okay, and the other fact that's very, very, very confusing or disturbing to me was things came up at that point in 88, like Mars was brought into the picture.
Some of this other stuff was brought into the picture.
And back in 88, people rolled their eyes, Lil Green Men and Mars.
Well, now, look at all the data that's coming out that couldn't tie into Mars and some other stuff.
And at the time in 88, everybody was looking.
But the interesting thing was, I was involved with some people that were in engineering.
And it appeared to me on the surface at the time, and I've confirmed it later, they were definitely interested in whatever it was for the technical part of it.
And they were working hard to understand it and to be able to use it.
And one of the questions was the ability, how much time would it take or whatever?
I can't remember exactly.
It's been a while since I watched it.
But it was the travel time between Mars and Earth.
And when they asked this thing, it gave the exact data correctly.
They were blown away by it and they confirmed it.
But I gave, that was the point when I was channeling.
I was able to give them the exact travel time it would take to get from Mars.
When you were able to see this video later and you heard yourself give that answer and knew it was a confirmed correct answer, it must have blown you away.
And not only that, when I came out of it, everybody was looking at me like I was, I don't know how to explain it, but they were almost like scared of me.
And then I want to go because all this stuff has surfaced over the years.
But then when you start finding these declassified documents, it's to support some of this.
And like I said, now the remote view just surfaced.
There's a lot of stuff that over the years that I've worked on that support the hypnosis, support some of what Sergeant Penniston said.
And not only that, but even the fact that I just recently was awarded a settlement from the VA that I was injured in the line of duty in Reynolds from Forest by whatever we encountered.
I mean, and it wasn't something that I connected immediately to the incident because, first of all, people have to understand I was an E3, Emiran first class.
I was at the low end of the totem pole in the food chain.
There was a lot of high-ranking people that were out there, and I was told to let it go, and I let it go.
But right afterwards, I started having throat, eyes, my gums actually turned white.
And then a few months later, when I didn't feel right, it was a civilian doctor that found it because I was home back in the States on my time off, and I got so sick I went into the emergency room because I had to because I couldn't get back to the base in time.
And they found a heart murmur.
And the interesting thing is the fact that I could never have joined the Air Force.
And I'm not even going to tell you that I totally put this together.
There was things that happened after that, like when I went in, when my eyes started acting up, and the first thing the doctor asked me was, have you been exposed to radiation?
Well, as much as I can tell you, it appears to be terahertz radiation.
I learned it right before I was near death is what it came down to.
My valve was the civilian doctors, to go back in time a little bit, the civilian doctors when I got sick started having AFib and congestive heart failure couldn't understand why I was having that problem.
There just wasn't anything there.
There was no heart disease or anything else other than the murmur was there.
But what they were looking at and the data, you know, the medical data supports it doesn't support the extreme problems that I was having.
So they asked me to contact the military to get my medical record so they could look at it when I first started having the problem.
Okay, well, yeah, but what it came down to was she was smart enough to know because she had dealt with stuff with Agent Orange and stuff, that isn't what was really the case.
What they were were where they were classified.
So what she did was force their hand when I filed disability to have them start admitting to what was going on.
Well, they were stalling her because Kyle was getting her to retire.
So I got a letter from her.
Well, actually, I met with her first, and she told me that she knows something happened to me.
I probably will never find out what happened to me, but that they were going to give me the medical care that I deserved.
Well, they stalled them long enough that Kyle retired, so they kicked it over to Senator McCain's office.
And that's where it really got interesting as far as the whole thing, even to the point where they alter my DD Form 214.
They actually alter my DD Form 214 when I wasn't in the Air Force in 1979.
When she reported this to McCain, I sure would have liked to have been a fly on that wall.
I mean, she obviously went back to McCain and said, look, on one hand, they say he wasn't in the service, but on the other hand, I just saw evidence that he was.
When we addressed this to the six people that were in Congress, first of all, they didn't even know there was a classified record section.
They didn't even know that.
Most of them did.
They even took a break and made some phone calls, and they came back, and a couple of them got some inside information that there might be.
But they actually put together a letter.
They sent it to President Obama himself and to the head of the VA, asking them to intercede and help me.
Right after that, the CIA guy shows up, and we had an attorney working with us.
He shows up and meets with the attorney and starts getting involved.
Now, we go along a couple more months, and I get a denial letter in the mail from the VA.
And their denial was based solely on two factors.
Number one, my DD Form 214 showed I didn't come in until 1982.
So therefore, what I'm claiming could not have happened because I wasn't in the Air Force in 1979.
And there were no medical records to support my issue either.
McCain's office goes nuts on this.
They go, we've got more than enough evidence to show you he was in.
They went as far as going to AFRPC on this.
AFRPC told them I wasn't in.
We got an email from them saying I couldn't have been in.
I wasn't in.
Well, I actually got around this by going to retirements because I was retired.
And I talked to a girl on the phone and I says, well, I'm calling to confirm I'm not retired.
When I explained the whole thing to her, she got into my files and got some stuff out that got back to McCain's office.
And finally, finally, after almost two months of going back and forth, they grudgingly then changed my DV Form 214 back to the fact that I joined the service.
I don't know how much they found out, but it was clear from the aide in Senators Kyle's office and these people now that whatever happened to us was still classified, was buried very deeply, and that there was no headway On they weren't going to get any answers of what went on.
I would think, though, there would be better ways that they could go at this to keep a lid on it rather than to try to actually change it to 14 and a date you were in the military.
That's just ridiculous because, of course, ultimately you can prove.
And that's when Senator McCain's office basically, through him, said, you better start changing your tune, or we're going to open up a full investigation into what happened over there.
I mean, once they admit that at least you were in the military at the time you said you were, the next step is, of course, to try to get the medical records that are now relevant to a life-threatening problem.
So along comes the CIA doctor, writes a letter, goes to my attorney.
It's attorney, doctor, client, privilege, okay?
But I was authorized to release it to the VA that was starting to look at me.
As soon as they got that letter, everything changed.
They immediately started treating me differently.
Matter of fact, they brought in a DOD doctor.
And what it ended up being was what they found out, and there's medical proof to back this up too, because this type of radiation can affect the valve.
But what the civilian doctors were missing, and now because they had the type of radiation that DOD got in the middle of it, they realized that there's two leaflets within your valve, front and back is what I call it.
The front one showed some damage, but it wasn't enough damage to cause the symptoms I was having.
They've never had a case where the back leaflet was damaged.
You know, medical records are a little bit of a different situation, but certainly you would have the right to file a FOIA for your own medical information.
Yes, there's others that have had radiation, appear to be radiation symptoms.
One guy, actually, it was interesting, had some issues with his thyroid, and the doctor, the civilian doctor, said the only way this could have happened to your thyroid was exposure to radiation.
For me personally, medically, that's part of the speculation of why my records are classified, because I didn't know it at the time, but the symptoms I had were looked at by the military.
Matter of fact, the heart issue went the right pat.
Now I find out through the grapevine later on, well, you know why they want the right pat?
No, not really.
Well, where do they did all the work on this stuff?
Oh, okay.
So along the lines with the eyes, the heart, and everything else, at the time I didn't know it, but it appears that was partly what was going on.
They were monitoring that and keeping track of it.
It appears to me, and I can go in the condine a little bit, which is declassified documents from the British MOD, that it's clear that the governments of the world are aware of whatever we encountered.
It's called UFO-UAP, but they're clear about it.
They're studying it.
They're working on it.
They're weaponizing it.
And there's a good possibility, yes, they were monitoring us to see how we were affected by it, to include that when this became public, the whole health issues, there was actually some testing that was requested.
They wanted to look at our DNA and also some other testing that they wanted to do that would have been reaction to what we encountered.
It's Project Condine, which was a report that was done by the British government on UFOs, UAPs.
And when you go into the report, and it's like over 400 pages long, but when you go into the report, it goes into the details of this phenomenon.
It has the ability, when you get close to it, to see things, may cause different people to see different things.
It can block your memory, your long-term, your short-term memory.
It can cause all kinds of issues.
There is a radiation involved with it.
And there's a lot of stuff within it, just like any other reports that, you know, it's like double speak or whatever you want to talk about it.
But if you go through the report and you break it down, it does go into a lot of things that not only what we were dealing with, but what other people have had, experiences that people have had that have had some kind of encounter.
False memories, that's something else all together, or injected memories.
In other words, could there have been a period of time where the military said, oh my God, this thing has happened.
We're going to have to control it.
And the only way we're going to control it, apparently, besides manipulating 214s later, is to give somebody memories that tell some different sort of story.
Matter of fact, Penistin under hypnosis said they used sodium pentothol on him, or a lot of people say it would have been amethyl, but hypnosis says pentothol.
But when you take condine and you take all this other stuff that's now surfaced, you know, and it's been over 30 years, so stuff starts getting declassified and stuff.
You have to wonder if the military itself was perplexed by it.
They couldn't really understand it.
They were in the Infancy stages of what we were dealing with at that point.
If you know the base where we were at, right outside the gate was some of the most technical equipment, the best equipment we had, both British and American, that were outside, that were being worked on.
And there were special access programs going on at that time.
And Reynolds from itself, and this has gone on way before our incident and after to this day, they have weird things that go on on that forest.
And one of the things that was uncovered was there was a scientific team down in the area right when that incident happened.
They were already doing investigative work on that area and the phenomenon itself.
I think the first night, and honestly, I can only tell you this based on the research I've done.
I don't think the base overall knew what was going on.
Matter of fact, I would say probably nobody on the base had a really good idea, even the general in charge.
But at the same time, some of the stuff was going on, was going on on the base itself and was going on at Marshall Heath, which was an attachment to the base.
But I think quickly afterwards, General Williams was read into a lot of this stuff.
Matter of fact, when I met with him with these declassified documents, he was blown away.
He could not believe those documents did get declassified and that they actually admitted that Reynolds was in the documents itself.
It said that we were exposed to radiation within these documents.
He couldn't believe that part came out or the frequencies or the fact that within these documents, it even says that wing commanders, the people that are in the flying wings, are briefed on this because there is interaction between pilots and this phenomenon itself.
Well, the interesting thing with that is it's kind of like with my medical records.
The memo that was put out, the dates were wrong, that Colonel Hall put out in the first place.
They had the dates wrong.
So they went back and they tried to recover the radar stuff.
And the dates that they asked for, they said those dates have been erased already.
And then when they went back later, they got the same answer that the data that they should have kept anyway was erased.
But that goes even deeper into all the missing files that the British admitted they don't have and the fact that they're still holding 18 files after they'd said they'd already released everything.
And that's just when the British government said they were being transparent, and I think a lot of people have followed this, when they got to the Reynoldson part, there was a huge gap between there was missing files through the DIS.
Their answer was, well, they got destroyed.
Accidentally got destroyed.
Well, okay.
Well, don't you have procedures in place?
Well, Nick Pope said, well, number one, they weren't supposed to be destroyed.
Number two, if they were destroyed, this should have been who authorized and or why.
All of that was not there.
So there's a huge gap in the missing files.
Well, I asked Nick, and he wouldn't give me a straight answer, but I don't think they're missing at all.
I think they're still classified at top secret, which is a way to cover this because if you say I'm releasing everything we have and everything we're releasing secret or below, well, and then we say we're missing files, if they came out and said, well, there's still stuff being classified, there'd be a huge row.
But if they just say we lost them, they'll take the heat on that.
Now, it goes deeper because of Condine, and I did a bunch of FOIA, and I slipped some stuff in, and I caught, I think, this guy off guard because it went from him to the very top.
I started getting responses back from the Defense Secretary himself that they actually admitted they slipped up, even though they admitted earlier on, remember how they released every file they had?
Now, when they come back and say, well, here's everything we got, well, that's not true because, yes, they're releasing documents, but they're still holding stuff that's classified.
And that goes right over most people's head, including the mainstream news.
And in this particular case, in condine in these 18 files, a lot of that stuff is still classified.
Now, how can you say it's not a defense significance?
Yeah, I mean, they're all just a big item and all this stuff going on.
So if they casually release these files in the U.K. and then they kind of and somebody just says, well, you know, they got caught, but here's the rest of them.
There's nothing to them, which is they have people that they hire to do that.
It's not going to make the kind of headway it would in the States that if there was no election or anything like that going on.
And it seems to me, you know, I was in the Air Force too, A1C, as a matter of fact.
And it seems, I know how things work.
And, you know, one day, I could imagine John was out there and John wouldn't be out there on any other day.
Not the way the Air Force works.
If it's a big deal, you know, the low ranks get abandoned quickly.
So the fact that you were brought back, that the colonel felt that whatever it was wanted you back and brought you back, means to me you're at the very center of all this, John.
Just that they were monitoring us, that there were things that we were doing that concerned them, and it didn't seem like at that point, but they'd come back to monitor from that point going forward where there's going to be something that happens that they're going to try to figure out at that point, going to that point, how or what they can do maybe to keep it from happening or what caused it to happen.
When I started this in 10, so much has changed since 2010, 2009 timeframe.
All I really wanted to do, this was before I got really sick, was simply to get us all together, to try to get us to talk about it, which it's funny when some of us now we finally have, we start to remember things and things start to fall into place.
And it's clear there's an influence within that doesn't want us to get together.
And when this binary stuff came up, which we talked about way early on, that was a mind blower.
And all the stuff in between, just the sights, the possibilities, my hypnosis, how things are starting to fall into place for my hypnosis, which is kind of hard to accept.
There's all kinds of things that go through your mind and stuff that you think about and wonder about or you see in the news and stuff that you're not going to go out and publicly talk about or make a big deal about because that's where people are going to start to think you belong somewhere in some hospital or something.
And the interesting thing was, the weapon they developed doesn't belong directly to the MOD, and it's mostly all blacked out because it's involving defense contractors that are working on it for the MOD.
And it has to do with time and everything else that's going on.
As you've noticed in the news, and that's what I'm leading up to this, have you noticed in the last few months how all of a sudden now they're talking about warp drive?
They're talking about what I call impulse project.
So are you telling me it was imparted to you by this alien?
I think it's fair to call it an alien, that there was going to be or that there existed a warp drive or that we were on the way to developing a warp drive or what?
I want to open the phone lines and allow people to ask you questions.
So our public number, by the way, is 1-952-225-5278.
Opportunity of a lifetime to ask a question.
You never know what you might hear in response.
And, of course, the Skype connections as well.
Having said that, there was a moment, wasn't there, where laser beams were seen shining to the ground by whatever this thing was, and it seemed to be doing some sort of search.
Yes, there were two things that came out that, and it's on Colonel Halt's tape, and you can hear it in his voice.
And I love how people try to say, well, that was a fake tape.
Listen to that segment right there where it comes at him, and it a beam of light down at their feet.
Listen to the quiver in his voice and everything.
But there was clearly something that was sent down.
He has actually said over the time frame, was it a warning?
Was it a message?
What was going on?
And then also, one of the other guys out there with him at the time said, whatever was up in the sky appeared to be doing some kind of search or grid pattern.
Did you ever come to terms in your own mind, John, with regard to what you encountered and where it was from, as well as what it wanted or what it was concerned with?
Yeah, and it's not only that, it's the interest that's happened to me over the years from within the government, different technology people, and even I don't want to go too deep into this, but I've had some, you know, some people within the tribes themselves that have actually made contact with me, and I've been able to go up to some of their sacred sites and do some stuff.
And it all seems a lot of people believe whatever we encountered and whatever happened is vital to the future of mankind.
Well, let's go to some of the folks, and Maybe they'll jog your memory a little bit.
Knoxville, Tennessee.
Hello there.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Hey, thank you for taking the call.
I'm Joe.
Are you aware that the 29th, the next day after the 28th, same month, same year, that Betty Cash and Vicki Lander had an incident in Dayton, Texas, a light in the sky thing, and they were exposed to radiation like he was?
Also, there was some Chinook helicopters that showed up during all this.
I was wondering, have you heard of the aircraft reactor propulsion systems that they experimented in the 50s and later on led to the mold and salt reactor experiments at Oak Ridge?
And then about that time after the 60s, it was shut down.
Is this part of your black ops that you're wondering about?
Is part of this as a carryover from the aircraft experiments, aircraft reactor experiments?
There has been quite a few people that have tried to look at our case and that case, and they think there's a tie-in because of the timeframe, what happened, the dates and the timing that happened, and that there was radiation involved.
And I can't say that that isn't possible.
Matter of fact, that's on my next thing to look at.
I just haven't had the time yet.
But there's a lot of people that have looked at that and feel there's something related to it.
And what's also interesting, prior to our incident, there was another incident in the UK that involved a British policeman.
And then prior to that, Albuquerque had a major incident that followed the same parameters of what happened at our incident.
But I'm not so sure about the reactors and stuff.
I think what our incident had to do more with radar frequencies and everything else and less to do with nuclear reactors.
And what's got me was, you mentioned the 80s, and based on the mold and salt reactors at the experiments at Oak Ridge, and which was based off the aircraft reactor experiments.
Could this be the, and like I said, we're talking heavy radiation possibilities.
What I'm trying to say is, is this part of the black ops later on that powered these things?
What I believe the black ops had to do, and the SAP programs had to do more with frequencies and the radars and all that and the EM fields, which under my hypnosis, that does come up, that what we're doing to the EM fields, which affect the Earth itself and even outside the Earth parameters, I think that had more to do with it than the actual what you're talking about.
But anything's possible.
And if you have any information down the line that you can tie that in, I'd be interesting to know about it.
I think I'm going to just focus on a current rumor that I've heard, and I want to either quash it so that it doesn't grow or say what you will.
On a show on Dark Matter Radio Network, another guest claimed that Sergeant Penniston made a deal to get his medical record for it, and in return, he would shut up.
There was a Congressman that was at the hearings, and he did a source of the rumor.
He asked me what happened to Sergeant Penniston in this, and I gave him this answer.
And this is coming from me now because Jim and I did go to the hearings.
We did testify in front of these guys, you know, these mock hearings.
He was all on board, and you can see the hearings online, that he, you know, he had health issues, that he was involved, that he wanted something done.
After the hearings happened, and this CIA guy showed up, and the actual Steve Bassett actually was trying to make headway to get us in front of a real Congress.
Jim backed off.
And when I said he backed off, he actually did post a statement at one point saying the fact that he was threatened and he wouldn't elaborate, and that he actually had some records he turned over to the VA, and he was now being taken care of, and he wanted to drop it all.
Now, it got kind of blown out of proportion that who threatened him, which he never said, number one.
And number two, he did drop out of this.
And the only question I had on all this was, why would you go in front of these people and say you had health issues and we weren't going to be taken care of and then later say you had records that took care of all the problem?
That just didn't add up.
But he did drop out of all of this once the CIA doctor got into it and there was an actual possibility that we could go in front of Congress.
That's the best I can tell you.
unidentified
If I may get a second question, and my dogs always try and blackmail me that they're going to bark if I don't pay attention to them when I'm on the phone.
I take it it was a large base.
Reynolds was a large base.
I'll make up a number, 10,000 airmen.
Wouldn't there be a lot of witnesses?
And is there some way to get a name of all the people on the base at the time and start trying to get more people to come out of the shadows and explain what they saw?
Many, many people must have seen the orchestra in the sky that night, not just the handful that have come forward and are in the spotlight.
I guess straightened out is a pretty good word for it.
Let's go here to the phone lines and say hi, you're on there.
unidentified
Hello.
In Richmond, Virginia, you're seeing WTWW shortwave 5085 kHz.
Yes.
John, I really want to thank you for doing this show.
I think you and our, I wanted to thank you both for your service to the Air Force.
But John, you in particular, I think, deserve a purple heart for the injuries that you received in service to your country, and I hope that you properly awarded that.
If not, I think there'd be a lot of people pushing for that to happen.
Now, I have taken the moniker, you can see on Midnight Fans, which is one of our fellows fan sites, of plasma and pluriton for a very good reason.
Plasma and Plariton is the kind of physics that's activated by these terahertz waves that can produce the kind of energy that you need to do a warp drive.
And what a plasma and pluriton is, is it's a photon of, in this case it would be terahertz white photons, that are crawling along a dielectric plane with the electromagnetic field, the electric field pinned to the dielectric and the magnetic field free to move perpendicular to that.
This is the kind of physics that's going to allow all kinds of new technologies for warp drives, very fast transfer of spaceships to Mars and nearby planets.
Well, he certainly said that was exactly what's involved.
unidentified
Right?
Yeah, and I think that I have written some stuff over at the Midnight Fans site that you might want to look at, John, that talks about this just a few days ago.
I get a sense about these things, and I have a sense that while John has told us a great deal, that there are things that he has not mentioned publicly.
Are there things, John, that really are so out there that you would be afraid of people, what people would think of you?
And also the fact that one of the things, because I really didn't spend most of my life in this, but the things that concern me the most is people coming out and making these predictions and all this stuff.
And it gets people worked up and nervous.
And one of the things that I try, and I'm doing my best not to do, is to go too deep into stuff because honestly, the stuff that came out in 88 just was so hard for me to stomach and believe in the first place, and so much of it's coming true.
But I don't want to be somebody that's out there adding to it.
Yes, adding to it.
I do believe, I'll say this much.
I do believe these next four years are critical to mankind's survival.
And what I mean is, do I mean we'll be wiped off the face of the earth?
No.
But I think where we'll end up in the next four years will have a big say in how we evolve over the next 100 to 200 years.
Hey, John, I was wondering, this life force you encountered, could it possibly be looking forward to, for when you encountered it, to what's going to happen next Wednesday when they turn on CERNs and possibly engage a frequency we shouldn't be messing with?
I didn't really see anything that night, but what I will tell you is this, okay?
The flares came way after.
I know that, you know, that stuff wasn't in the sky at the time when the first stuff happened.
I had a friend who was very reliable that saw something come out from the Tucson area up over Alatuke and head out towards Luke.
I passed this on to James Fox a few years ago that something landed at Luke that night that came in and went down and Luke was there for a short time.
And I correlate that from the fact that my friends saw it come over the mountain.
The guys out there at the base, I wasn't on duty at night, but they talked to me about it afterwards, obviously, because of my background with stuff that's happened in the first place.
They couldn't wait to tell me about it.
And then it was confirmed later when they said it left, there was a truck driver that saw something leave and go over I-10 south towards Gila Bend.
So you're asking me what I think based on technology and everything else, I think it was something we were involved with.
And I think there's a good possibility there was something else going on at the same time.
Do you think that our military or the British military or a military anywhere has, I don't know, I hate to say made a deal with but communicated with these beings?
Is it your view that that's where this new technology that we seem to be right on the edge of, I mean really on the edge of, is coming from?
People have said it was E.T., people have said it's time travelers and such.
I do know that it's in Condine, which is declassified documents from the British.
They were secret, which is a big deal.
And they've admitted in these documents that all these countries, the major countries, Russia, China, us, France, they all are aware of this phenomenon.
They're all working on this phenomenon.
They're trying to weaponize it and use the technology.
I've been in contact with scientists that have admitted to this.
And the other factor in all of this is, yes, I mean, you have to look at the weaponry, the advancement in technology.
And yes, I do believe, and I've also talked to Dr. Edgar Mitchell about this, who was on these committees.
And in Condine, it says they brought astronauts in to study this, that they're studying what we dealt with and what other people dealt with.
And what's the first thing mankind wants to do with it?
My question is, is your opinion of this possibly being a test to see how the actual your base would react to something like this?
But deeper than that, what if this is actually coming from 40 years in the future because of the drone you said that they were designing based on this technology?
I mean, it could actually be the drone that they developed sent back to that time, so it all would happen.
Well, the test part, if you mean, do I believe that for three nights they had us running around in the forest in a foreign country and all this stuff going on within the WSA?
No, I don't believe that that was the test.
Now, up until a few years ago, time travel was just science fiction.
But in the last five or six years, it's no longer science fiction.
And what Penniston said was they were coming from the future back.
So could it be something from the future coming back?
I can't argue that point now, especially with all the stuff that's coming to light in the last few months or the last year.
Now the question would be, are they coming back by accident or what?
That's another whole Pandora's box.
unidentified
Well, you know how you said that they were developing a drone that was actually based on what it is that you all encountered that evening?
And the interesting thing is, that's why I brought up the movie Final Countdown.
If, in fact, something happened, and there's a lot of speculation between 18 and 22 that a lot of bad things are going to happen financially, militarily, and everything else.
Let's just say this becomes operational Or there's a good chance it already is operational if you know how the military works.
Then something happens here in the future, a year, two, three, four years from now, it could go all the way back to 80 because one of the speculations of time travel is it can only go back as far as when it was first developed.
unidentified
Right.
Yeah, that just sounds like that could be a very interesting possibility.
The guy that was doing hypnosis seemed to have some insight.
And I can't remember exactly where he thought they were coming from, but I never really speculated.
In fact, it's typical of my personality.
When he said a certain thing, I said it in the hypnosis that what you're saying is wrong.
It's not possible.
And it was left at that.
Now, the part of when they're coming back, it appears they didn't give a direct date, but it does appear the way they described it, we very well could be coming into that timeframe right now.
Well, this is the whole thing that's just hard to explain.
A few years later, this would have been probably around 2009, 10, there was a hypnotherapist that got involved.
There was some stuff that was done through Stanford and everything.
And she actually wanted to take a look.
And the weird thing about it was when I went under, there are certain things that started with interesting things like went to a door, I saw pie, and then tried to take me back, and all of a sudden, and it's really bizarre, it was out at one point, but I think it's not on the line anymore.
But my whole body almost lifts off the chair and I'm shaking.
When I tried it, there was like this opening, like a vortex or something appeared, and I was trying to go through it, and the blue lights and something else interfered and wouldn't let me go down and go back in time again.
Okay, in 1975, I was stationed in Arist Concerted in Kirschkerns, Germany.
And in the middle of the night, I had a flat down on the street.
I had a girlfriend.
And I'd go home, and my job every day was to walk 12Ks around the post with an M16 with blanks in it pretending like we were fighting in the Vietnam triangle formation.
I was third squad, third platoon.
One night, they came to my house, two guys, Hilger and Russo, that's all I know of them, with their M16s.
And they said, Harris, or Mike, you've got to come with us right now.
This is like 2 in the morning.
And I went, whoa, so we went back to the post.
They each gave us a box of 20 rounds of M16s and said, put it in your ammo pack.
And usually I had a drag around the 90, but that night they just gave me the 16.
And we went out the gate and we started to do our patrol.
About four hours into it, because it took all day.
Four hours into it, Sergeant Johnson came over and said, okay, you guys, take 10, and we have your rations, you know, the old-fashioned rations with the cans.
Sit down and eat them.
So Hilger and I and Russo sat down on this perch, and on the right side was the base, and on the left side was my flat, my little German apartment.
And we were laughing because we were real close, but it was still about two hours' hike, and we had to go through a swamp and then load our blanks and all that kind of stuff.
So I opened up a can of scrambled eggs and ham.
I know it.
And I had a P38, which is a can opener.
And Russo said, throw it to me.
We'll use my last name, Mike.
So I threw it to him.
And all of a sudden, I swear to God, John, and I was telling Linda, I was telling Linda, Linda, and I said, I got to tell somebody about this.
Oh, all of a sudden, we hear the whole company, the whole company was out.
The whole company, in the middle of the night, first time ever.
I was there 15 months, first time ever with live rounds, not loaded, but in our backpack.
All of a sudden, Russia, I threw my P-38, and as soon as I did that, as soon as I did that, John, as soon as I did that, the people, the whole company was in the swamp.
There was a back road and a little trail you had to go down and the place where you unload your blanks, and you're kind of in the swampy area anyway.
That's about an hour and a half hike in formation.
Well, yeah, that 10-minute clip, I've listened to it several times, yes.
The whole tape, a few times, but the 10-minute clip, it's very moving, and it goes into the part with the interaction with Colonel Hall and the telepathic lights and everything else.
I just think it would be really good for all of us, and anyone else that was on the fringes, like that one guy asked, that saw something or knows something.
I just think it would be really nice to get us all together and sit down and go over everything.
But it did make it clear that whatever we're doing, which is nothing to do with nuclear weapons, but it had to do with EM fields and frequencies, would affect mankind.
So when you say a pole shift, I mean, I suppose if we did something bad enough to the frequencies, it could affect the poles itself, which I know that there's a lot of speculation out there that they're shifting as we talk.
unidentified
Yeah, because did you see that documentary chasing ice by any chance?
You know, I wonder, there are a lot of people right now feeling a sort of a mass, well, what's the right word for it?
There's been this building thing, for example, about this month, September, John, and masses of people are worried about extinction-level events and all kinds of things.
I wonder if somehow it's all related.
We go through these cycles every now and then when a lot of people seem to get disturbed about something they feel is coming.
This is one of those times.
We're certainly in it right now.
There really are.
I know people, John, packing their wives and their children up in cars and taking off to areas that they feel are safe.
In other words, do you feel that these entities, these creatures, these aliens, whatever they were, are basically here to help us, here to investigate us, or here to do something not so good to us?
Well, I can, again, I want to reiterate this is hypnosis now, not what I remember.
Two things stood out in it.
They were here to monitor us.
They were going to do their best not to interfere.
But if it came at a certain point, I think they, I could only tell you what it appears to be on the hypnosis tape.
They had an idea of what went on and what went wrong in the future that brought them back to this timeframe to go forward then to alter what happens to keep it from affecting the future like it did.
That's the best I can tell you.
So it appears that whatever they're trying to do is to not destroy mankind, but to help mankind.
John, you'll be delighted to know this in a certain respect is that on December 26, 1980, I was stationed at your, and you know this base, RAF Chicksands.
Without disclosing top-secret information, obviously, as John has been mentioning, he said the danger are a frequency, radio frequency, and all that good stuff.
Well, that was part of our job to do that in that realm.
So he is correct in the sense that what we are doing in the, you know, with messing with frequencies and whatnot, electronic frequencies, yes, it is disturbing the, however you want to call it, our well-being for the future.
And it's very complicated and it's very hard to try to explain.
But he is correct.
He is very correct.
That evening was buzzing with activity.
Activity meaning in electronic surveillance and activity was very, very busy, very acute.
No, I know exactly, but the elephant cage is what they had there.
It was in San Diego and some other places.
And eventually it went from that size down to just a little radar.
unidentified
That is correct.
That is correct.
Yes.
And what you are saying, the two things you are saying about how we, in fact, you know, messing the air with frequencies and whatnot, bringing about problems.
And secondly, the fact that Art asked you, well, you know, are these guys really, you know, maybe are they devious?
They're curious, as John, it's a curiosity, like John said.
Like, if we got so advanced, like Interstellar, the movie, if we got so advanced another, say, a thousand years from now, we were able to do these things, we would be curious, kind of hide-and-seek with them and trying to find out about them.
And I think that's basically what they're trying to do.
They really don't want to hurt us, but they know something's up.
And the last thing I'll say is that today, NASA just announced that this was the warmest summer in world history and by a far wider margin than any time in history.
But my goodness, that's quite a statement to make.
How do you know it's irreversible?
Even I worry that could be the case.
I'm just wondering how you know.
unidentified
I have a friend who's at the National Weather Service.
He's a meteorologist there for many, many years.
This fella not only predicted Katrina, but he keeps sending me emails.
This is going to happen, that's going to happen.
And he's never been wrong.
And I'm saying, wait a minute, whoa, don't my grandkids have a chance here?
Give me some good news.
His bottom line is that because of the record-breaking volcanic activity for the past two years, man-made emissions are not cutting back, and some are trying, but not enough, and so on and so forth.
He said it's just overwhelming now that it will be irreversible.
But then what will happen is it will then level out.
But by 2050, it will peak, and then it'll start to level out.
But the damage by 2050-26, he said, will be horrific.
Absolutely horrific.
And that's not good because that upsets me personally because of my family.
I don't think, though, it has to do that much with mankind itself.
I think it has to do with where we're going through the Great Rift right now and some of the things that happens, that's happened in history before, where we heat up and then it cools back off again.
So do I think that mankind's expedited it?
Probably because of what we've done.
But we've gone through this same thing before in history where we didn't have this kind of emissions for mankind, too.
First of all, I do believe we're going through some rough times, and I do believe things are going to get hard for us.
I do think mankind still has the ability to turn it around, but we're going to have to do it collectively, not divide and conquer.
Also, Art, you asked me about certain things.
Well, I've been kicking around doing a book that's science fiction in nature, but it'll be based on a true story with the names changed and some stuff.
So, I may put something out sooner than later that'll maybe help understand some things.
But the interesting thing is just in the last five months, stuff that I thought was going to have to really try to go deep into science fiction-wise is actually starting to happen.
So, when you write a book, if you write a book and it's science fiction, we should read carefully between the lines for what you may know that you're putting in.