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Sept. 17, 2015 - Art Bell

02:17:50

Art Bell MITD - John Burroughs Rendlesham Forest UFO

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34:27

john burroughs

01:14:54

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world.
		Everyone covered like a blanket.
		Great to be here.
		It's going to be a very, very good night tonight.
unidentified		There is Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there's Rendlesham.
		Or maybe I should have said there's Rendlesham, and then there's Roswell, and then there's everything else.
		Tonight you'll meet the man who was the most involved at Rendlesham.
		So that'll be coming up.
		It's John Burroughs, and you're not going to want to miss it, trust me.
		All right, so the rules of the program, simple, no bad language, one call per show.
		That's it.
		Those are the rules.
		And white crow, its coordinates, plus one.
		Listen, everybody, I've got a new public page.
		Now, that is a kind of a pretty cool place because I can have more than 5,000 friends, associates, fellow travelers, whatever you call yourselves.
		And so you should immediately go to that.
		Now, you can get there by going to my regular Facebook page and or, I suppose you could look it up.
		It would come up as Art Bell51.
		Pretty cool, actually, because that mirrors my Twitter account, Art Bell51.
		Anyway, it's a new public page.
		It's going to be the center of a whole lot real soon.
		There will be information.
		So you want to get there.
		Go to my old page, click on one of the links, go to Art Bell51, whatever.
		And don't forget, if you are not yet a time traveler with us, what in the world are you waiting for?
		It gives you the ability to listen to all the old programs, the ones we have done thus far, as well as each new one each night.
		So if you're stuck for a little time, you can download.
		You know, the RSS feeds, download, boom, like that.
		If you've got even a half decent internet, they are fast.
		And then you've got minus commercials and all the music and everything, probably about two hours and 20 minutes of pure D entertainment.
		So it's worth it from that point of view.
		And of course, the wormhole that you send messages during the program for me and or the guest.
		Well, the fallout from the debates is over.
		The apparent victor, Carly Fiorina.
		And so she has gone from being the apparent victor to the apparent recipient of money.
		That's how it works in politics, right?
		Money.
		If you are perceived as, ooh, you did well.
		Maybe you're a winner.
		Let's give that person money.
		And then we will have influence.
		Now, I don't say that just to Carly, but, you know, it's true of all of them, right?
		Give me money and you will have influence.
		You heard about the big earthquake, right?
		Horrible in Chile.
		We still don't know really how horrible, but there are about 11 dead.
		Should have been a lot more for something this size, you know, an 8-plus earthquake.
		There were small tsunamis, fishing nets tangled in trees, and again, 11 dead.
		But, you know, it should have been much worse.
		There was a very tiny amount of havoc, actually, for such a powerful quake.
		And a quick word about dolphins.
		This lady, researcher, Susan Casey, who I really want to talk to, thinks that dolphins have a collective consciousness.
		Isn't that interesting?
		Now, dolphin brains are bigger than ours.
		They may, in fact, be more intelligent than human beings in certain ways, in ways that, of course, we don't necessarily understand.
		But I have always thought this of dolphins.
		Dolphins frequently save humans.
		They drive predators away from humans.
		That is a thought.
		I don't think that's an instinct.
		That is a thought.
		They care about human beings.
		The day will come, perhaps not while I am alive, but I promise you, we will begin to form a new attitude toward animals.
		And we will treat them differently as we learn.
		Or maybe most of us will try and stay in blissful ignorance in favor of quarter-pounders, which, by the way, I love.
		Pretty bad, huh?
		So, as I said at the beginning of the show, Top of the Show, you know, there's Rendlesham, there's Roswell, and then there's like everything else.
		So, I guess the main character, the character most in the middle of everything, was John Burroughs.
	He's here tonight.
	He was born in Bloomington, Illinois, back in 1960, joined the U.S. Air Force right after high school graduation, Yay Air Force, received orders to go to RAF Bentwaters, England, arrived there in 1979, 18 months before the strange encounter in the Rendlesham Forest.
	That was between RAF Bentwaters and nearby RAF Woodbridge.
	During that time, John worked as an Air Force police officer, AP actually, says nothing strange ever happened.
	That is until midnight, December 26th of 1980.
	Now, John Burroughs' account of Rindelsham has been featured worldwide.
	It's been on a number of TV and radio networks.
	On December 26th and 28th of 1980, an account by John as the only witness involved with both nights of the investigation of a craft of unknown origin adjacent to the East Gate of RAF Woodbridge.
	Mr. Burroughs will discuss the pursuit, investigation, findings, and aftermath of the report.
	This is indeed DeMothery's best documented and most witnessed case in history.
	It's that simple.
	So coming up, John Burroughs.
	And this time we'll...
unidentified		Thank you.
		Dial 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
		I've been waiting some time for this, actually.
		Welcome to the program, John Burroughs.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was also Air Force, so really happy to have you on the program, John.
		You know, as I said, and I think I'm right, there's Rendlesham, there's Roswell, and then there's like everything else out there.
		So this is a monster of a case.
		I guess I would ask you to take me through it in detail from your first awareness of it or where you want to start and through the entire affair so that everybody understands what really happened.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I'd be happy to.
		It started early in the morning of December 26th.
		We came on duty at 11 o'clock, 2,300 on the 25th, and about 0,300 on the morning of the 26th, which is Boxing Day in the UK of 1980.
		I was riding around with my supervisor who had met up with me about a half an hour prior, wanted to ride around and talk for a little bit.
		It was just, you know, Christmas night into Boxing Day morning.
		As we were driving down to check the East Gate, which is at the east end of the perimeter of Woodbridge Base, he saw something that he later said it didn't crash.
		It landed, come down out of the sky, and it appeared to land in the forest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you didn't actually see it land.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		He did.
		Not at the beginning, no.
		I did not see it.
		And he got my attention, and he told me to look out in that direction.
		I'd been there almost two years.
		He had just gotten there.
		So I'd been down there at night during alerts and other things, when it was dark like that and everything else.
		And the first thing he wanted to know from me was, well, have you ever seen anything like that before?
		And at that point, I could see something in the forest itself.
		It was kind of lit up, white lights.
		As I tried to describe over the years, it almost looked like a Christmas light display, different coloring lighting and everything else that was down in the forest itself.
		So we went ahead and went down to the gate.
		He was a very conservative guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask a quick question?
		Sure.
		Was that your boss?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was my boss.
unidentified		He was your boss, right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		He was my supervisor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What rank were you, John?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I was E3 Airman first class.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		He was an E5 staff sergeant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I was too, Airman, first class.
		All right, and he was staff sergeant.
		Okay, got it.
		Continue.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		So we decided, both of us, that there was something that wasn't right out there, but it was off-base.
		And what did we want to do with it?
		So we came together and decided, well, we'll go down to the end of the road.
		So we're going to have to leave the base.
		We opened up the gate and we drove down to the end of the road before you would turn left to Bentwaters or right would take you to one of the small towns down the road.
		So we went ahead and went down to the end of the road.
		There was a way you could turn the car back around and he turned it around as such so we were starting to go back towards the road that led up to the gate.
		I jumped out of the vehicle and I looked out into the forest.
		I don't know how to explain it other than it just didn't seem right.
		All of a sudden it was like we were vulnerable.
		We were sitting out there off base.
		The lights were there.
		And at one point it almost looked like this all happened really quickly.
		Like maybe it was starting to come towards us.
		There was like a static electricity in the air and it just didn't seem right.
		And here we were off the base, hadn't told anybody, and we didn't know what was going to happen next.
		So I jumped back in the vehicle and we took off back up to the gate, drove as fast as we could back up to the gate, went up, there's a gate shack up there, went up to the gate shack, parked the vehicle, and then we decided we better call it in.
		So went ahead and got on the phone.
		The phone went to the law enforcement desk.
		So I got the desk sergeant on the phone, and I told him that there was something strange just outside the, you know, the Eastgate, you know, at Woodbridge that was out in the force, and we can't explain it.
		We wanted to report it.
		And it was Christmas night, and, you know, it's a Boxing Day morning.
		I played practical jokes over the last year on the Death Sergeant himself.
		He kind of didn't want to believe me.
		And we kind of went back and forth a little bit.
		Even Sergeant Steffens got on and told him there was something strange going on.
		And again, I'd pull some jokes on him.
		So he was a little leery to bite for it.
		So, what he did was transfer me to CSC, which is Central Security Control, which was the security side of the house where they took care of the airplanes and stuff like that.
		And got the controller on the phone and told him that there was something strange out in the forest.
		We couldn't explain it, that we wanted to notify the shift commander of what was going on.
		So they went ahead and they found him, started talking to him behind the scenes.
		At the same time, they notified the security supervisor at Woodbridge, which would have been Sergeant Penniston, that he needed to respond down to the Eastgate and to check out what we were dealing with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At least by now, they're buying your story.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, right.
		I mean, by that point, I kept it going.
		So they had a funny feeling something was going on.
		So went ahead, and Sergeant Penniston came down to the gate.
		When he got down to the gate, you know, he met with Sergeant Steffens, who was the ranking law enforcement guy.
		He gave him a quick synopsis of what's going on.
		They could both still see the lights in the forest.
		They were still there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And can you describe, John, from that distance what they looked like?
		I mean, was it a soft glow you were seeing?
		Could you see distinct lights?
		Or was it just sort of a blur?
		I mean, what were your eyes seeing?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		It was like sometimes it was a soft glow.
		Sometimes it was more, the white light would get brighter.
		And at one point while we were standing at the gate, the white light itself seemed to almost come to the edge of the forest to where the road was.
		And within the white light, and it even looked a little like orangish or huge, there was different colored lighting in it, which would have been red, blue, and green.
		And I always tried early on to describe it.
		It looked like some kind of Christmas light display.
		It was strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said when you were close to it that you felt something like an electrostatic charge.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, when we first went down and left the base, when I got out of the vehicle, the hair on the back of my head stood up and there was like an electric charge.
		And he could feel it inside the vehicle itself.
		In other words, immediately it was like, oh, let's get out of here.
		Let's get back up here and report what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a queasy feeling.
		It really is.
		It's like lightning about to strike or something high voltage about to happen.
		Yeah, I know the feeling.
unidentified		Right.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		So I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Sergeant Pennsylvania got on the phone.
		By this time, the wheels were turning.
		They were starting to make contact because of the fact that Sergeant Stefans reported something up in the sky coming down.
		They immediately started contacting radar Rapcon, which would have been on the base.
		This is some of the stuff I found out after the fact.
		You know, you put the pieces together over the years.
		But they started reaching out to our base radar, which then they also reached out to Eastern Radar and to even Heathrow.
		So he gave a description of what was going on.
		They were able to verify through radar that something was out up over in that area over the forest and disappeared on radar.
		So, and this has always been an interesting point that gets overlooked.
		It was off base.
		There was no immediate threat to the base itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, once again, you're saying they observed it incoming.
		And they could tell, I don't know how well the radar pins it down, but I mean, it's very close to the radar, so they knew the distance.
		They knew how close it was to the base.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Colonel Hall over the years has talked to the radar people, and they actually saw it streak across at one point and stuff like that.
		But what the data we got that evening was that they did observe something on radar just outside the base over the forest.
		Okay.
		And it was there, and then it disappeared like it went down.
		You know, it didn't disappear like it took off up into the sky.
		It looked like it went down into the forest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Out of radar range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, right, right.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		So, and that's what people need to understand.
		And it's kind of a bit of a mispoint.
		There was no reason for us to go off base.
		Okay.
		It wasn't an immediate threat to the base.
		We could see it in the forest.
		There was no hostile threat.
		But here was the catch-all.
		Because they did notify the British police, they did notify the British Fire Department, but because it was close to the base, the fact that there had been radar contact, they felt that maybe something had crashed.
		Now, it wasn't being labeled as aliens or UFOs at that point, but there was some kind of object that may have went down and crashed into the forest area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, it seems to me that if something came down that close to the base, it was observed on radar, then you almost, it seems to me, had a duty to find out what the hell it was.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, I agree, but that's a catch-all point that people kind of overlook.
		We didn't just go out there to go out there.
		There was something there that we, in other words, if all we saw was lights outside the perimeter fencing, they wouldn't have sent us out.
		But because there was radar contact, that was the defining point of why the shift commander authorized us to leave the base to include contacting the command post and certain people were notified of what was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		There had to be more than just the fact that we saw strange lights out there for us to go out into the forest in the first place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm with you all the way.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So at that point, a decision was made that there would be three of us to go out there.
		Now, there were two security guys, Sergeant Penniston and his writer, and myself that ended up going out.
		Now, we left our weapons with Sergeant Steffens up at the gate because we were going off base.
		We went ahead and departed the gate.
		As we were going down the road, we got to the end of the road again and we made a right.
		We could see the lighting in the forest.
		I mean, like I said, it played games with us.
		Sometimes it seemed like it was coming towards us.
		Sometimes it seemed like it moved back.
		Sometimes it was up in the trees a little bit.
		Sometimes it seemed to be a little bit of the ground.
		So we tried to get into the forest, You know, find an area to get into the forest to get back towards where we thought it was.
		We went ahead and went down and we found a track road, a forest road that led into the forest.
		We made a left and we went down the road, okay, as far as we could go.
		Now, there was a fence there that kept us from going any farther.
		The road was not a paved road.
		It was just, you know, a forest track road.
		It stopped us.
		At that point in time, we got out of the vehicle.
		We went up over the first fence and we started going into the forest, deeper into the forest on foot.
		We spread out like in a line formation.
		So our pennison was to the front.
		I was more in the center.
		And Airman Caban Sack was more behind me to my right, like in almost in like a staggered line formation.
		We moved out to the forest.
		At points, it seemed like it was playing with this, whatever it was.
		We would seem like we were getting close to it, then it was not there.
		But finally, we went, I can't tell you how far, but we went a little bit of a distance.
		And at that point, we came like up a berm and down as we came down, down this berm into almost a small clearing.
		Now, there were still trees there and stuff, but there was a little bit of an opening in this tree area.
		All of a sudden, there, whatever it was, was there.
		And there's a big difference in what Sergeant Penniston saw, what I saw, and what Erman Kabansak remembers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're the eyewitness.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Do you want me to go over?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First, I want to know what you saw.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		What I saw was what I drew in my statement.
		It was like a red oval object.
		It had a huish, orangish glow around it.
		There was some blue light scattered within it, and then it was like a white light that was the bright light around it.
		And as we got close to it, the bright light lit up.
		We all hit the ground.
		And then all I can remember after that was then it seemed to dim, it went up into the sky, and it shot back away from us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there ever, John, anything that went beyond light?
		Was there ever any substance anybody could make or you could make out at all?
		Or just light?
unidentified		There was.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That's when I said that the three of us that were close to this all had a different interpretation of what we saw.
		Sardin Penniston remembers this.
		He actually got up after we hit the ground, went towards it.
		As the lights dimmed, he saw a triangular object.
		And within the triangular object, he was able to walk around it, and he was able to touch it, and there was glyphs on it.
		And when he touched the glyphs, he had some kind of download from it.
		So he remembers it more in depth as far as being a triangular object with glyphs and everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're aware of the recent statements that the code that was uploaded or downloaded to him is remembered bit for bit?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		There was.
		He wrote out a certain amount of pages after the event, right after the event, and they did surface in 2010 from within his notebook, and they were deciphered, and there was a message, and there were some coordinate sites within it also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you free to discuss the message and the coordinates?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I don't have it right in front of me, but it had to do with mankind itself.
		There were seven locations, three of them in the western side of the world, three on the other side over in the European area, Egypt, China, and in Greece.
		And then the three in the northern hemisphere would be there'd be one in Central America, one in South America, and one in Arizona, in the southwest in Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, do you recall his making that walk toward the object?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, I have no memory from the time the lights got bright until they dimmed and the object went away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No memory at all?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, no memory of any of that, seeing any of him having any of that or any of that happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any thoughts on why so much time went by between the event and the notebook?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll go into this.
		It's something that has just surfaced now in the last couple weeks or three weeks that kind of reinforced the fact that there was a notebook and some of this happened.
		The interesting thing was that after the event, after the three days, there was three nights of events, when I met with him on Sunday night because we rode together to work, he talked about something was bugging him and he couldn't shake it.
		And it would be something that if he talked about it, would get him in trouble.
		He also did some hypnosis in, I believe, the mid-90s.
		And in it, in the hypnosis, it comes out that there was a binary download.
		It comes out under hypnosis.
		But the third piece of this puzzle that's kind of mind-blowing to me is that the CIA declassified some documents in 2000.
		But within these documents, there was a remote view done by Lynn Buchanan.
		And this remote view was done in 1986, prior to Jim and I going public.
		And very little had been said about the incident.
		And the part of it, some of it's missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, hold that thought.
unidentified		CIA will come right back to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is John Burroughs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only man there for each night of the event.
unidentified		It's the mother.
		It's the light.
		Thank you.
		Total matter.
		It's the night Don't matter Midnight in the desert doesn't screen calls.
		We trust you, but remember the NSA Well, you know to call the show please dial 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALL ART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The subject is Rendlesham, probably the military's best documented, most witnessed case in all history.
		John Burroughs is here.
		He was there each night of the event.
		And we were talking about the actually the CIA when we left.
		And there is one quick question before we get back to that, John.
		When you approach something like that and you have no memory past a certain point, and now I'm asking you, what I'm going to ask you is sort of if you can search your own mind and you can recall, I mean, is it like a wall suddenly came down in your mind?
		I'm sure you've thought of this a billion times, trying to figure out when your memory went and how it went, or was it a slow fade or like that?
		What can you remember of the moment that you began not remembering?
		That's a hard question.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That's a fair question.
		I would say early on, I didn't spend much time on it.
		We got debriefed.
		We got told to let it go.
		If there was anything more they needed from us, let it go.
		A lot of the stuff that's come up over the years, going back and trying to remember it, I don't remember, but I've never had a memory of any of other than getting close to it twice.
		I know the second time I got close to it, it really bothered me more than the first time.
		But the first time, it didn't come clear to what happened with what Penniston remembered until later on when he came out and started talking about some of it, which I couldn't remember.
		But then you can go back to the third night when I was out there and I got close to it again.
		The same exact thing happened to me on the third night that the first night.
		I got close to it.
		The next thing you know, it was gone, whatever it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but you don't remember the moment of the blackout, essentially.
		It is a blackout, really.
		Have you ever thought of doing hypnosis yourself?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, there's been hypnosis done, and there's a lot of stuff that comes out under hypnosis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, a lot of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like, what?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, there definitely was an interaction that, you know, I mean, it would take at least half an hour to go into all of it.
		Do you want to go into that now?
		Do you want to finish the CIA stuff first?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's finish that and then let's not forget to come back to it because I really do want to hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to hear what else hypnosis brought out, you bet.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
		Well, where I was at was that the interesting part, and I totally understand why people question the notebook, some of the stuff that Jim's talked about.
		I mean, it didn't come out.
		The notebook itself, the first time I heard of it, was I think right around 2000.
		That would have been the 20-year anniversary.
		And he did a sci-fi piece with Brian Gumbel, and the notebook came out, the glyphs came out.
		Then 10 years after that, when we were getting ready to do the 30th anniversary, the codes showed up.
		But here's something that you can't discredit.
		In 1986, a remote view was done by Lynn Buchanan, and Ed Dames was the facilitator of it.
		And there was follow-up remote views done afterwards, too.
		What he, the report that was released by the CIA, when I say CIA, was declassified in a bunch of documents, but this was found within these documents.
		A lot of what he talks about in that remote view in 1986, way before Penniston talked about any of this, or even some of the stuff that I talked about hadn't come out.
		I hadn't gone public yet either.
		He confirms it in the remote view.
		Now, how is that possible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say confirmed it, what kind of detail?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		He actually saw an object or a craft.
		He actually could go around it.
		He saw the glyphs, the raised things.
		He touched the glyphs.
		There appeared to be some kind of communications that would happen between the glyphs and him.
		The actual object itself, how it felt, the smoothness, what Pennyson describes after, you know, years later, smooth, black, and everything else.
		Now, this is a remote view that was done, you know, by Lynn Buchanan way before any of this stuff was on the public domain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Now, how could that be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How could it be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That's my whole point.
		This throws another wrench in the whole Rendelsrom case because they were doing this.
		Matter of fact, a piece of the report disappeared.
		He admitted to that.
		There was part of it that's not there.
		He at one point felt there was E.T. presence there, but it wasn't in the crap, but it was from somewhere else, which is what Colonel Hald has said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		So, and this was in 1986, and he did this way before any of this became public knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I have no clue.
		But I have you.
		And I am particularly interested in what under hypnosis has come out.
		I mean, obviously you say your conscious memory went gone.
		So let's talk about hypnosis.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		And I always like to make this clear: okay, there's a difference between what I remember and hypnosis.
		And I'm not saying I don't believe in hypnosis, but there's a lot of people out there that discredit it.
		So I want to make it clear: I've told you what I remember getting up to it close the first time.
		Now I will tell you what hypnosis is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Under what circumstances did you agree to hypnosis?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's another whole crazy story in itself.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember back in the 90s when they were going to do that UFO cover-up live show?
unidentified		Yes.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I was asked, I just gotten out of active duty, and I was asked by the producer of the show and executive producer, Kurt Brubaker, to do, to maybe go on the show.
		So I met with him.
		Then this whole thing came up about, not the first night, because that wasn't in, hadn't come out yet, but what happened on the third night when I was running towards it with Adrian Vicenza?
		So we finally got around to the point where they convinced me, why not go into hypnosis just to see if anything comes out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not on camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not on camera.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		No, well, it was.
		It was recorded, yes.
		The whole thing was recorded.
		Okay.
		So I reluctantly agreed to it.
		Find out later on Bob Emmenegger was behind this and that whole group of that and actually ended up getting shopped around to the intelligence agencies to include some other people in SRI.
		But ultimately, I go under hypnosis and I remember going into it, that it was actually the life form itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going into it, you mean?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Going into the life form, whatever it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going into the life form.
unidentified		Yes.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		The actual energy field or whatever it was that we got close to was the life form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got you.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And it was able to communicate with us telepathically to include the fact that when I met up with Colonel Halt before Adrian and I went forward, that there was a telepathic communications between Colonel Halt and whatever this was.
		And the fact was that it actually Halt felt that I needed to go out there because it wanted me to go out there to meet back up with it for the second time.
		This all comes out under hypnosis.
		And I reiterate, this was hypnosis now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		No, that's fine.
		I really want to know what came out.
		Did you, by the way, when you got, when you were hypnotized, did you really feel you were under?
		Do you recall the experience?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's the thing.
		The whole thing's taped, but I went out.
		They couldn't get me under at first.
		And this guy did something that finally put me under, and I was out cold.
		And there was a communications.
		This is where it gets really crazy, but it was like channeling where at one point we were back there and communicating with whatever it was.
		And I don't remember any of this.
		And when I came out of the hypnosis, it did nothing to my memory to make me remember anymore.
		I didn't remember it afterwards.
		You know what I mean?
		Well, now I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That didn't happen.
		I do.
		So did they inquire of the nature of the communication, I would imagine?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was there to observe us.
		It will be back.
		There are things going on in this earth that are very dangerous.
		And down the line, when certain things happen, they will be back and then they'll go forward from there.
unidentified		That's basically the communications.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So dangerous things for the earth.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And it was strange because you would think right away everybody hopped on the nuclear part of it.
		And whatever this was says, oh, it's way past the nuclear part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It probably is.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Nuclear weapons are not a concern of theirs.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Whatever else we're doing is the concern that eventually we'll get to that point where they'll have to come in and do something about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm personally a little concerned about nuclear weapons, but beyond that, I can see that there would be danger for those of us living on this earth and not very far down the line either at the rate we're going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that part of it certainly makes sense.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hate to say this, but based off the hypnosis, which was done in 88, we're coming into that time frame right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It feels like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I can't disagree with that, but it's the fact.
		Okay, and the other fact that's very, very, very confusing or disturbing to me was things came up at that point in 88, like Mars was brought into the picture.
		Some of this other stuff was brought into the picture.
		And back in 88, people rolled their eyes, Lil Green Men and Mars.
		Well, now, look at all the data that's coming out that couldn't tie into Mars and some other stuff.
		And at the time in 88, everybody was looking.
		But the interesting thing was, I was involved with some people that were in engineering.
		And it appeared to me on the surface at the time, and I've confirmed it later, they were definitely interested in whatever it was for the technical part of it.
		And they were working hard to understand it and to be able to use it.
		And one of the questions was the ability, how much time would it take or whatever?
		I can't remember exactly.
		It's been a while since I watched it.
		But it was the travel time between Mars and Earth.
		And when they asked this thing, it gave the exact data correctly.
		They were blown away by it and they confirmed it.
		But I gave, that was the point when I was channeling.
		I was able to give them the exact travel time it would take to get from Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you were able to see this video later and you heard yourself give that answer and knew it was a confirmed correct answer, it must have blown you away.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, it did.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And not only that, when I came out of it, everybody was looking at me like I was, I don't know how to explain it, but they were almost like scared of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should we kneel down before him or run?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Something along those lines.
		And the other scary part about it was that whatever it was was going to be coming back from me for a reason.
		It didn't give the reason, but I would be at some point in time in the future, it would be back for me directly.
		This is all that came out of Hymnos' Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you know, some people turn their heads away from what's going on on Earth, but right now, the Arctic waters are melting.
		We're beginning to enter into a new Cold War phase with Russia, which is going to dominate those Arctic waters.
		There is going to be new navigation that will make the Panama Canal no longer so important.
		The world is changing really, really quickly.
		These are not changes that you expect to see in one lifetime.
		These are changes that, I don't know, somehow we think of as occurring over many hundreds of years, thousands of years.
		But it's happening very fast, John.
		So maybe their warnings were spot on.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		It could very well be.
		And then I want to go because all this stuff has surfaced over the years.
		But then when you start finding these declassified documents, it's to support some of this.
		And like I said, now the remote view just surfaced.
		There's a lot of stuff that over the years that I've worked on that support the hypnosis, support some of what Sergeant Penniston said.
		And not only that, but even the fact that I just recently was awarded a settlement from the VA that I was injured in the line of duty in Reynolds from Forest by whatever we encountered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is one hell of a story all by itself, right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How this progressed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After all of this happened, you were, were you treated medically?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, none of us were.
		And it's not just me that's had some medical issues either.
		There's been some other people that have had different problems also that I'm trying to help right now.
		So it wasn't just me that had medical issues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But your medical issues are so, so interesting because it bears on the whole event.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And what exactly caused my problems surfaced through the CIA, and they actually helped keep me alive, if you can believe that or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can believe it.
		So, you know, not everybody in the CIA is bad.
		It's full of good people doing a tough job.
		Right.
		All right.
		So let's go down the health road for a bit here.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened to your health?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right after the incident, I didn't feel good.
		I mean, and it wasn't something that I connected immediately to the incident because, first of all, people have to understand I was an E3, Emiran first class.
		I was at the low end of the totem pole in the food chain.
		There was a lot of high-ranking people that were out there, and I was told to let it go, and I let it go.
		But right afterwards, I started having throat, eyes, my gums actually turned white.
		And then a few months later, when I didn't feel right, it was a civilian doctor that found it because I was home back in the States on my time off, and I got so sick I went into the emergency room because I had to because I couldn't get back to the base in time.
		And they found a heart murmur.
		And the interesting thing is the fact that I could never have joined the Air Force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got a heart murmur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And they found it.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I mean, within months after the incident, they found this heart murmur, which then leads down to years later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you at that time mention to the medical people that it might be connected to what happened?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely not.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I was told over there, known circumstances, to not talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not talk about it.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Not to let it go.
		And I'm not even going to tell you that I totally put this together.
		There was things that happened after that, like when I went in, when my eyes started acting up, and the first thing the doctor asked me was, have you been exposed to radiation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And I'm looking at him like, well, not that I'm really aware of.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, it was years after that all the pieces came together to bring us back to that what we were exposed to caused these difficulties.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When did you learn what you were exposed to?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, as much as I can tell you, it appears to be terahertz radiation.
		I learned it right before I was near death is what it came down to.
		My valve was the civilian doctors, to go back in time a little bit, the civilian doctors when I got sick started having AFib and congestive heart failure couldn't understand why I was having that problem.
		There just wasn't anything there.
		There was no heart disease or anything else other than the murmur was there.
		But what they were looking at and the data, you know, the medical data supports it doesn't support the extreme problems that I was having.
		So they asked me to contact the military to get my medical record so they could look at it when I first started having the problem.
unidentified		Sure.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And that's when everything got crazy because it came down to the fact they wouldn't give them to me.
		I went to Senator Kyle's office.
		They inquired for my medical and service records.
		They got told they weren't where they belonged.
		Then she went back and told me to file for disability.
		This is before I got really sick.
		And they would then inquire because she felt my medical records were classified.
		And this is all in writing.
		So when people come back and say, I can't support this, I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The initial reaction was they could not find them?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, first they said they weren't where they belonged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's called lost.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, yeah, but what it came down to was she was smart enough to know because she had dealt with stuff with Agent Orange and stuff, that isn't what was really the case.
		What they were were where they were classified.
		So what she did was force their hand when I filed disability to have them start admitting to what was going on.
		Well, they were stalling her because Kyle was getting her to retire.
		So I got a letter from her.
		Well, actually, I met with her first, and she told me that she knows something happened to me.
		I probably will never find out what happened to me, but that they were going to give me the medical care that I deserved.
		Well, they stalled them long enough that Kyle retired, so they kicked it over to Senator McCain's office.
		And that's where it really got interesting as far as the whole thing, even to the point where they alter my DD Form 214.
		They actually alter my DD Form 214 when I wasn't in the Air Force in 1979.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're going to pick up right there.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That's why I figured I'd give you a second because I saw the time.
		I got to go into this story.
		This is amazing what happened with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight.
		Holy mackerel.
		John Burroughs is my guest.
unidentified		All our plans have come.
		Here, but down, let it go.
		Seasons don't feel the rebirth, but do the wind, the sun, the rain.
		The End Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art F. Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never misses, right?
		At least once.
		All right, John Burroughs is my guest.
		And John, last we talked to him just a couple of minutes ago, was talking about his DD 214.
		And he claimed they altered his DD 214 to show he was not in the Air Force at that time.
		That is a very, very serious offense, altering a 214.
		My goodness.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, yes, it is.
		And here's the story behind it.
		When they handed it off to McCain's office, you know, they got the paperwork.
		They looked at it.
		It was as typical.
		They looked at it like, and I want to be clear on Senator Kyle and Senator McCain's office.
		They took a chance on this because they had the background on what I was exposed to, what was going on.
		They had the HALT memo.
		They had official documents showing something happened to us.
		But they took the case, you know.
		And it was a risk in their part because of the fact that the ramification is going back to where it could lead.
		But at the same time, they were looking at this with a little bit of an eye like, well, there's got to be an explanation to all this, right?
		So, all right.
		So it goes to McCain.
		McCain, this was when the VA was having the trouble in Phoenix anyway.
		So I hadn't gotten an appointment.
		They got me expedited.
		They got me looked at.
		When I went in to see the doctor, she started asking me questions and I started answering them.
		She looked at me strange and she says, well, there's a problem here.
		And I says, well, what's that?
		She goes, you weren't in the service in 79.
		We have no medical records for you during that time frame.
		So therefore, what you're telling me can't be true.
		Well, I pulled out, I had my little briefcase.
		I pulled out a bunch of pay records and everything else.
		I showed them to her.
		Her guys got real big and they say, so how are we going to handle this now?
		She goes, well, this is above my pay grade.
		I can only give them my recommendation based on what I can look at.
		I said, fine.
		I left the office.
		I told McCain's office this.
		They were still like, okay, well, let's see what happens.
		I wonder what McCain was hearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me.
		When she reported this to McCain, I sure would have liked to have been a fly on that wall.
		I mean, she obviously went back to McCain and said, look, on one hand, they say he wasn't in the service, but on the other hand, I just saw evidence that he was.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, she didn't report to McCain.
		I'll tell you how McCain found out about this.
		This is when it got really crazy.
		Citizens' hearing happened with Steve Bassett.
		We went up there.
		When we addressed this to the six people that were in Congress, first of all, they didn't even know there was a classified record section.
		They didn't even know that.
		Most of them did.
		They even took a break and made some phone calls, and they came back, and a couple of them got some inside information that there might be.
		But they actually put together a letter.
		They sent it to President Obama himself and to the head of the VA, asking them to intercede and help me.
		Right after that, the CIA guy shows up, and we had an attorney working with us.
		He shows up and meets with the attorney and starts getting involved.
		Now, we go along a couple more months, and I get a denial letter in the mail from the VA.
		And their denial was based solely on two factors.
		Number one, my DD Form 214 showed I didn't come in until 1982.
		So therefore, what I'm claiming could not have happened because I wasn't in the Air Force in 1979.
		And there were no medical records to support my issue either.
		McCain's office goes nuts on this.
		They go, we've got more than enough evidence to show you he was in.
		They went as far as going to AFRPC on this.
		AFRPC told them I wasn't in.
		We got an email from them saying I couldn't have been in.
		I wasn't in.
		Well, I actually got around this by going to retirements because I was retired.
		And I talked to a girl on the phone and I says, well, I'm calling to confirm I'm not retired.
		When I explained the whole thing to her, she got into my files and got some stuff out that got back to McCain's office.
		And finally, finally, after almost two months of going back and forth, they grudgingly then changed my DV Form 214 back to the fact that I joined the service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lord, with or without an explanation?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No explanation whatsoever.
		Matter of fact, McCain, that senior staffer from McCain's office told me this.
		It was a yeoman's job behind the scenes for us to get this taken care of.
		But you're not going to know how he did it or how it was done.
		And the next step is to get you medically taken care of.
		But you'll probably never have any answers to what exactly happened to you.
		It's so deep.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's so deep.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		It's very deep.
		I don't know how much they found out, but it was clear from the aide in Senators Kyle's office and these people now that whatever happened to us was still classified, was buried very deeply, and that there was no headway On they weren't going to get any answers of what went on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think, though, there would be better ways that they could go at this to keep a lid on it rather than to try to actually change it to 14 and a date you were in the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's just ridiculous because, of course, ultimately you can prove.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, right, but even when we proved it, they at first said no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And that's when Senator McCain's office basically, through him, said, you better start changing your tune, or we're going to open up a full investigation into what happened over there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's when the 214 tune changed.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that had something to do with it, but they still weren't going to do anything for me medically.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That was still a big holdup.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's the next step.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, once they admit that at least you were in the military at the time you said you were, the next step is, of course, to try to get the medical records that are now relevant to a life-threatening problem.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		But they weren't going to release them.
		So along comes the CIA doctor, writes a letter, goes to my attorney.
		It's attorney, doctor, client, privilege, okay?
		But I was authorized to release it to the VA that was starting to look at me.
		As soon as they got that letter, everything changed.
		They immediately started treating me differently.
		Matter of fact, they brought in a DOD doctor.
		And what it ended up being was what they found out, and there's medical proof to back this up too, because this type of radiation can affect the valve.
		But what the civilian doctors were missing, and now because they had the type of radiation that DOD got in the middle of it, they realized that there's two leaflets within your valve, front and back is what I call it.
		The front one showed some damage, but it wasn't enough damage to cause the symptoms I was having.
		They've never had a case where the back leaflet was damaged.
		Well, mine wasn't just damaged.
		It was shredded.
		It was shredded by this radiation.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did they determine the amount of radiation that you had received?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I never got a straight answer on how much radiation I got.
		And matter of fact, I never got a straight answer from them on even it was terahertz.
		It was a CIA guy that identified that type of radiation, which is highly classified.
		It's being used extensively in military operations and weapons and stuff.
		There is a little bit of it being used in some of those scanners in the airports.
		But it's a highly classified radiation.
		But that opened the door for them.
		But then I was handled completely differently than I was actually being screened.
		Everything went through this DOD doctor.
		Even the surgeon answered to him for the whole surgery and everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so who actually got hold of or did anybody ever get hold of your medical records?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll finish it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sure.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I got the surgery.
		Okay.
		Now the next step was to get disability because my heart was damaged so badly that right now a fracture rate is usually between 55 and 60.
		Mine's in the low 30s now, but it was down to 10 at one point and then in the 20s.
		So we were now working on disability and there was a whole rigamor about that.
		They were going to do something, then somebody up high pulled it, and an IG complaint went in and McCain had to step in again.
		Finally, they granted me disability.
		But here was the deal.
		They granted me disability on the fact that I was on duty in Reynolds and Forest.
		I was injured by whatever we encountered.
		That was why my heart was severely injured.
		But they are not going to release my medical records.
		They're not going to answer any FOIAs on it.
		They're not going to tell me where my records are.
		They're not going to release my medical records that I'm being handled by certain doctors that have the clearance to work with me on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they're not going to answer any FOIAs?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
		They blew FOIAs.
		They blew FOIAs to McCain's office.
		They got caught holding back stuff.
		They got caught.
		They wouldn't answer my FOIAs.
		They wouldn't even answer whether or not the VA ever did get an explanation from the Special Operations Unit to handle it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, medical records are a little bit of a different situation, but certainly you would have the right to file a FOIA for your own medical information.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I did, and they won't release them to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What specifically did they say?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		This is where it gets real shady.
		They basically leave it as the fact that we've treated you, we've taken care of you, and we're not going to deal with you anymore.
		And so basically what this is going to come down to is I'd have to file a lawsuit to actually ask where my records were and pursue it from that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Because they're classified.
		I mean, McCain's office said it.
		Kyle's office said it.
		Do I have it in writing from the VA?
		No.
		They won't answer that question.
		But ultimately, my, oh, and I even tried to get some of my stuff.
		I tried to pull a little fast one.
		I did get a little bit of it before the rest of it got locked down.
		But it's also what's interesting is it's all computerized now.
		It's in the VISTA system, but the VISTA system is a direct link between the VA and the Department of Defense.
		And all my stuff that relates to my heart, even a couple of my lower-level doctors can't get at it.
		They've even admitted it to me.
		They said, we don't have the clearance to look at your records.
unidentified		What about people who moved me up to a higher-level doctor where my heart was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the others that were subjected to the same radiation?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That's something I'm working with some of them right now, trying to get some stuff done.
		And Senator McCain's office, again, is going to help with this because now it's real easy.
		They understand, and they're willing to step up and help these guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are others with effects.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there's others that have had radiation, appear to be radiation symptoms.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		One guy, actually, it was interesting, had some issues with his thyroid, and the doctor, the civilian doctor, said the only way this could have happened to your thyroid was exposure to radiation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it would affect for sure.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And that affects your mind because the thyroid goes up to a gland and the gland.
		he was having issues with anger and everything else, and heart issues, too.
		So he's had some of the same issues, also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whether it's yourself or others that were involved at Rendellsham, at any point or at what point do you feel like you were being perhaps monitored?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Monitored by who?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Monitored perhaps by military authorities, whether it be medical or otherwise.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		For me personally, medically, that's part of the speculation of why my records are classified, because I didn't know it at the time, but the symptoms I had were looked at by the military.
		Matter of fact, the heart issue went the right pat.
		Now I find out through the grapevine later on, well, you know why they want the right pat?
		No, not really.
		Well, where do they did all the work on this stuff?
		Oh, okay.
		So along the lines with the eyes, the heart, and everything else, at the time I didn't know it, but it appears that was partly what was going on.
		They were monitoring that and keeping track of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would imply they knew pretty much exactly what you had been exposed to.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it goes even deeper than that.
		It appears to me, and I can go in the condine a little bit, which is declassified documents from the British MOD, that it's clear that the governments of the world are aware of whatever we encountered.
		It's called UFO-UAP, but they're clear about it.
		They're studying it.
		They're working on it.
		They're weaponizing it.
		And there's a good possibility, yes, they were monitoring us to see how we were affected by it, to include that when this became public, the whole health issues, there was actually some testing that was requested.
		They wanted to look at our DNA and also some other testing that they wanted to do that would have been reaction to what we encountered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if they did look at your DNA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I guess you don't know, do you?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you this.
		I denied it the first part of it.
		I said no.
		But after I had my surgery, the DOD doctor came up and wanted to look at my immune system.
		And the test, the blood that he took got sent away from the VA and was sent to a site.
		And what I've been able to learn, because a lot of it's locked down, I couldn't even get out of it.
		But what little I did get off of it was they were clearly looking at my immune system, which leads to my DNA.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight.
		Hold tight, John.
		John Burroughs, Rendlesham Horace is what we're talking about.
unidentified		Holy mackerel, what a story.
		Get a shiver in the dark.
		It's a raining in the park.
		Meantime.
		Sound of the river, you're stopping, you hold everything.
		Yeah.
		What is it for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Say it again, y'all.
		Who the hell?
		What is it for?
		Absolutely nothing.
		Take a ride.
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket when you call 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John Burroughs is here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're discussing Rendleson.
unidentified		And boy.
unidentified		When first we got a web and deceit, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, welcome back.
		All right, so in your opinion, do you feel that your memories have been blocked or that you've had false memories implanted somehow or another?
		And of course, the next question is going to be by whom.
		But first, obviously, there's a memory block because you were able to say all sorts of things under hypnosis, right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		And there's another piece of the puzzle.
		It's Project Condine, which was a report that was done by the British government on UFOs, UAPs.
		And when you go into the report, and it's like over 400 pages long, but when you go into the report, it goes into the details of this phenomenon.
		It has the ability, when you get close to it, to see things, may cause different people to see different things.
		It can block your memory, your long-term, your short-term memory.
		It can cause all kinds of issues.
		There is a radiation involved with it.
		And there's a lot of stuff within it, just like any other reports that, you know, it's like double speak or whatever you want to talk about it.
		But if you go through the report and you break it down, it does go into a lot of things that not only what we were dealing with, but what other people have had, experiences that people have had that have had some kind of encounter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		False memories, that's something else all together, or injected memories.
		In other words, could there have been a period of time where the military said, oh my God, this thing has happened.
		We're going to have to control it.
		And the only way we're going to control it, apparently, besides manipulating 214s later, is to give somebody memories that tell some different sort of story.
		I don't know.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		It's a valid question.
		And you can take it for this.
		Different people remember being interrogated.
		Matter of fact, Penistin under hypnosis said they used sodium pentothol on him, or a lot of people say it would have been amethyl, but hypnosis says pentothol.
		But when you take condine and you take all this other stuff that's now surfaced, you know, and it's been over 30 years, so stuff starts getting declassified and stuff.
		You have to wonder if the military itself was perplexed by it.
		They couldn't really understand it.
		They were in the Infancy stages of what we were dealing with at that point.
		If you know the base where we were at, right outside the gate was some of the most technical equipment, the best equipment we had, both British and American, that were outside, that were being worked on.
		And there were special access programs going on at that time.
		And Reynolds from itself, and this has gone on way before our incident and after to this day, they have weird things that go on on that forest.
		And one of the things that was uncovered was there was a scientific team down in the area right when that incident happened.
		They were already doing investigative work on that area and the phenomenon itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I get one night, maybe even two, but three nights in a row.
		At that point, there should have been a very, very, very serious, deep investigation.
		There should have been people everywhere.
		It should have been, by the third night, gigantic, right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, they did.
		They brought in the team.
		I think the first night, and honestly, I can only tell you this based on the research I've done.
		I don't think the base overall knew what was going on.
		Matter of fact, I would say probably nobody on the base had a really good idea, even the general in charge.
		But at the same time, some of the stuff was going on, was going on on the base itself and was going on at Marshall Heath, which was an attachment to the base.
		But I think quickly afterwards, General Williams was read into a lot of this stuff.
		Matter of fact, when I met with him with these declassified documents, he was blown away.
		He could not believe those documents did get declassified and that they actually admitted that Reynolds was in the documents itself.
		It said that we were exposed to radiation within these documents.
		He couldn't believe that part came out or the frequencies or the fact that within these documents, it even says that wing commanders, the people that are in the flying wings, are briefed on this because there is interaction between pilots and this phenomenon itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John, it's a period of three days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned radar once.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, over three days, unless this thing was on the ground all the time, there would have been additional radar sightings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you able to learn, or could FOIAs be filed which learned the totality of what radar knew about all this?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, the interesting thing with that is it's kind of like with my medical records.
		The memo that was put out, the dates were wrong, that Colonel Hall put out in the first place.
		They had the dates wrong.
		So they went back and they tried to recover the radar stuff.
		And the dates that they asked for, they said those dates have been erased already.
		And then when they went back later, they got the same answer that the data that they should have kept anyway was erased.
		But that goes even deeper into all the missing files that the British admitted they don't have and the fact that they're still holding 18 files after they'd said they'd already released everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, doggone, John, they lost all the Roswell records, too.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		I know.
		I understand.
		And that's just when the British government said they were being transparent, and I think a lot of people have followed this, when they got to the Reynoldson part, there was a huge gap between there was missing files through the DIS.
		Their answer was, well, they got destroyed.
		Accidentally got destroyed.
		Well, okay.
		Well, don't you have procedures in place?
		Well, Nick Pope said, well, number one, they weren't supposed to be destroyed.
		Number two, if they were destroyed, this should have been who authorized and or why.
		All of that was not there.
		So there's a huge gap in the missing files.
		Well, I asked Nick, and he wouldn't give me a straight answer, but I don't think they're missing at all.
		I think they're still classified at top secret, which is a way to cover this because if you say I'm releasing everything we have and everything we're releasing secret or below, well, and then we say we're missing files, if they came out and said, well, there's still stuff being classified, there'd be a huge row.
		But if they just say we lost them, they'll take the heat on that.
		Now, it goes deeper because of Condine, and I did a bunch of FOIA, and I slipped some stuff in, and I caught, I think, this guy off guard because it went from him to the very top.
		I started getting responses back from the Defense Secretary himself that they actually admitted they slipped up, even though they admitted earlier on, remember how they released every file they had?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Admitted they slipped up in what matters.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		They said, oops, we're still holding 18 files.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And six of those files are policy files.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Policy files.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And it gets even more intriguing.
		They're in a bind for two reasons.
		Number one, most people don't follow this closely enough.
		Even these files that have been released, they're still redacted.
		You know what that means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		There's stuff still classified.
		Now, when they come back and say, well, here's everything we got, well, that's not true because, yes, they're releasing documents, but they're still holding stuff that's classified.
		And that goes right over most people's head, including the mainstream news.
		And in this particular case, in condine in these 18 files, a lot of that stuff is still classified.
		Now, how can you say it's not a defense significance?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever actually put your hands on any of these files?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, did they release in part something along with a lot of blacked out redacted stuff?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, not yet on the 18 files.
		Matter of fact, they're in a bind.
		When they admitted it to me, I kept quiet for a while.
		And then I did a press release.
		And they finally did a short announcement that they were holding more files.
		And then it got quiet again.
		Finally, somebody in the House of Lords took it to the MOD twice, and they finally said, well, down the road, we're going to release these files.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down the road.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Down the road, yeah.
		I think they finally got a date of sometime in 16.
		Now, my inquiry started in 13, and in 14 they admitted it.
		So they're holding files that they didn't have in the first place for two more years minimum.
		And when they come out, yeah, Condine had a bunch of redacted stuff.
		And that's what led me to the redacted stuff, which I held in my hand.
		And I started asking questions about that.
		And I slipped in a couple of questions.
		And the guy slipped up and admitted within the redacted stuff, there were still files being held from Condine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And they were 18 files.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely remarkable.
		I guess they figure if they can hold out long enough, we die.
		Oh, no.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, and I also think 16 is an important time to release them.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		What's going to be on everybody's mind in the spring going into the summer of 2016 in the United States?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The spring going into the summer?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		The elections.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess more towards the 10 years.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, they're all just a big item and all this stuff going on.
		So if they casually release these files in the U.K. and then they kind of and somebody just says, well, you know, they got caught, but here's the rest of them.
		There's nothing to them, which is they have people that they hire to do that.
		It's not going to make the kind of headway it would in the States that if there was no election or anything like that going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I suppose the election could probably cover up the news cycle a bit.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they've really messed up here, severely messed up.
		And I kind of wonder whether we'll ever know.
		I mean, you must have days like that as well, John.
		You know, whether they'll just come up to the date and then somehow it'll be another date.
		It'll be further down the line.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what they've done with this twice now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you have it.
		All right.
		Hold on, John.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Wherever you go, whatever you do,
		you know these reckless thoughts of mine are following you.
		It's not radio, but it is what's next, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network, Midnight in the Desert, with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we are indeed What's Next.
		Mendelsham Forest, my guest, is John Burroughs.
		And it seems to me, you know, I was in the Air Force too, A1C, as a matter of fact.
		And it seems, I know how things work.
		And, you know, one day, I could imagine John was out there and John wouldn't be out there on any other day.
		Not the way the Air Force works.
		If it's a big deal, you know, the low ranks get abandoned quickly.
		So the fact that you were brought back, that the colonel felt that whatever it was wanted you back and brought you back, means to me you're at the very center of all this, John.
		Does that seem right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, there's a couple of things to consider.
		Number one, I went back out there on the third night on my own.
		I was off duty.
		Hypnosis is what that came out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
		And Elizabeth writes, she sends me a computer message here, wormhole message, saying, I'm getting lost.
		Did he finish describing what happened as perceived under hypnosis?
		I'm not sure we did, really.
		You said some of it, but is there more?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Just basically that definitely there was an interaction, that it was communicating with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That you actually entered this being.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's not just from hypnosis.
		Actually, Sergeant Penniston said he saw me go into it on the first night, and Adrian Vestenza on the third night saw me go in and disappear.
		And there was missing time on the first night, 45 minutes, where they couldn't account for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		All right.
		Did you come back with a clear message yourself under hypnosis?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Just that they were monitoring us, that there were things that we were doing that concerned them, and it didn't seem like at that point, but they'd come back to monitor from that point going forward where there's going to be something that happens that they're going to try to figure out at that point, going to that point, how or what they can do maybe to keep it from happening or what caused it to happen.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That's the best I can tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, is there anything over the years that has occurred to you or that you've thought of that you have not made public?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's quite a bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why I haven't talked about it.
		I mean, I'll kind of sum it up this way, Argy.
		When I started this in 10, so much has changed since 2010, 2009 timeframe.
		All I really wanted to do, this was before I got really sick, was simply to get us all together, to try to get us to talk about it, which it's funny when some of us now we finally have, we start to remember things and things start to fall into place.
		And it's clear there's an influence within that doesn't want us to get together.
		And when this binary stuff came up, which we talked about way early on, that was a mind blower.
		And all the stuff in between, just the sights, the possibilities, my hypnosis, how things are starting to fall into place for my hypnosis, which is kind of hard to accept.
		There's all kinds of things that go through your mind and stuff that you think about and wonder about or you see in the news and stuff that you're not going to go out and publicly talk about or make a big deal about because that's where people are going to start to think you belong somewhere in some hospital or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you sound sane to me.
		You obviously belonged in a hospital for a while, not the kind you were thinking of, and were in a hospital for a while, I'm sure.
		Almost died.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you can relate to me anything that has occurred to you after these years that you haven't made public, I'd be very appreciative.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say this much.
		Based on the research I've done, and there's one thing I want to add to this before I tell you the set apart.
		You'd asked me Earlier, if there was a document I was holding, I am holding the document.
		I got sectioned once I got this document.
		And in this document from the MOD, they've admitted that they've developed a weapon off of what we encountered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And that's when they sectioned me.
		And the interesting thing was, the weapon they developed doesn't belong directly to the MOD, and it's mostly all blacked out because it's involving defense contractors that are working on it for the MOD.
		And it has to do with time and everything else that's going on.
		As you've noticed in the news, and that's what I'm leading up to this, have you noticed in the last few months how all of a sudden now they're talking about warp drive?
		They're talking about what I call impulse project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's everywhere now, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, everywhere.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the stuff that I've kept quiet on because I've had some interaction with some government people, some stuff.
		I know some of the people that are working on this project, and I know where this is going.
		And the scary part is it's one thing to be told something, but then to see it actually coming out in mainstream news is pretty mind-blowing.
unidentified		Let's go back to where you were told something.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Just the warp drive, and the phenomenon itself ties into interstellar travel, warp drive, and everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are you telling me it was imparted to you by this alien?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's fair to call it an alien, that there was going to be or that there existed a warp drive or that we were on the way to developing a warp drive or what?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Not directly from my hypnosis, but they weren't concerned about the nuclear stuff.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		They were concerned about frequencies and what we're doing, which is right where we're at at this particular moment in history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And I can tell you one other thing that stunned me the other day, and unfortunately I didn't save it.
		I'm going to go back and get it.
		But I don't, did you ever see the movie Final Countdown?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Now, think about this.
		The movie was done in 1980.
		They only went back 40 years in time.
		And look at the ramifications of technology advancements from 40 to 80.
		The communications problems they had.
		So all this stuff that went on.
		And what that one ship could do would have changed history in 1940.
		One ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there definitely was something about time.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And now you get into this thing with Penniston and time travelers.
		Well, he did say under hypnosis 40,000 years.
		I think he meant 40 years.
		And when I say that, I say that because he really grasps for that timeframe.
		Well, it just came out in mainstream news.
		There is a craft, an unmanned drone that's being, it's in the final stages.
		It's going to be operational between now and 2020 that we have that looks a lot like exactly what he drew back in 1980.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there's a lot here.
		I want to open the phone lines and allow people to ask you questions.
		So our public number, by the way, is 1-952-225-5278.
		Opportunity of a lifetime to ask a question.
		You never know what you might hear in response.
		And, of course, the Skype connections as well.
		Having said that, there was a moment, wasn't there, where laser beams were seen shining to the ground by whatever this thing was, and it seemed to be doing some sort of search.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there were two things that came out that, and it's on Colonel Halt's tape, and you can hear it in his voice.
		And I love how people try to say, well, that was a fake tape.
		Listen to that segment right there where it comes at him, and it a beam of light down at their feet.
		Listen to the quiver in his voice and everything.
		But there was clearly something that was sent down.
		He has actually said over the time frame, was it a warning?
		Was it a message?
		What was going on?
		And then also, one of the other guys out there with him at the time said, whatever was up in the sky appeared to be doing some kind of search or grid pattern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A grid pattern search.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder what they would have been looking for.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Maybe whatever we encountered the first night, that's been some speculation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you ever come to terms in your own mind, John, with regard to what you encountered and where it was from, as well as what it wanted or what it was concerned with?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		That's part of what you asked me if there's things I haven't discussed.
		It clearly upset me, and it's upset the people that were in the room that day, that it was coming back from me at some point.
		That was definitive.
		There was no doubt that there was some point in time in the future that it was coming back from me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you feel this is yet to occur.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it's not only that, it's the interest that's happened to me over the years from within the government, different technology people, and even I don't want to go too deep into this, but I've had some, you know, some people within the tribes themselves that have actually made contact with me, and I've been able to go up to some of their sacred sites and do some stuff.
		And it all seems a lot of people believe whatever we encountered and whatever happened is vital to the future of mankind.
		And that's kind of a hard thing to accept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But very important to know about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really important to know about.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't disagree.
		I mean, that's why you can go into the message that Penniston said he received.
		The sites are all ancient sites.
		The fact that one of them is the Temple of Apollo, which sits right next to the island of Patmos, and we all know what was written at Patmos.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, all right.
		Well, let's go to some of the folks, and Maybe they'll jog your memory a little bit.
		Knoxville, Tennessee.
		Hello there.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, thank you for taking the call.
		I'm Joe.
		Are you aware that the 29th, the next day after the 28th, same month, same year, that Betty Cash and Vicki Lander had an incident in Dayton, Texas, a light in the sky thing, and they were exposed to radiation like he was?
		Also, there was some Chinook helicopters that showed up during all this.
		I was wondering, have you heard of the aircraft reactor propulsion systems that they experimented in the 50s and later on led to the mold and salt reactor experiments at Oak Ridge?
		And then about that time after the 60s, it was shut down.
		Is this part of your black ops that you're wondering about?
		Is part of this as a carryover from the aircraft experiments, aircraft reactor experiments?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am aware of the Cass Landrum incident.
		There has been quite a few people that have tried to look at our case and that case, and they think there's a tie-in because of the timeframe, what happened, the dates and the timing that happened, and that there was radiation involved.
		And I can't say that that isn't possible.
		Matter of fact, that's on my next thing to look at.
		I just haven't had the time yet.
		But there's a lot of people that have looked at that and feel there's something related to it.
		And what's also interesting, prior to our incident, there was another incident in the UK that involved a British policeman.
		And then prior to that, Albuquerque had a major incident that followed the same parameters of what happened at our incident.
		But I'm not so sure about the reactors and stuff.
		I think what our incident had to do more with radar frequencies and everything else and less to do with nuclear reactors.
unidentified		That's just my take so far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Colin?
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Do you say on the, okay, there's, you know, there's those large triangles that I think you sought to sell are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I sure did.
unidentified		Okay, well, they're powered by something.
		I believe they're ours.
		And what's got me was, you mentioned the 80s, and based on the mold and salt reactors at the experiments at Oak Ridge, and which was based off the aircraft reactor experiments.
		Could this be the, and like I said, we're talking heavy radiation possibilities.
		What I'm trying to say is, is this part of the black ops later on that powered these things?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I honestly couldn't give you an answer on that.
		What I believe the black ops had to do, and the SAP programs had to do more with frequencies and the radars and all that and the EM fields, which under my hypnosis, that does come up, that what we're doing to the EM fields, which affect the Earth itself and even outside the Earth parameters, I think that had more to do with it than the actual what you're talking about.
		But anything's possible.
		And if you have any information down the line that you can tie that in, I'd be interesting to know about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lewis on Skype, you're on the air with Mike Yes.
unidentified		Yes, Airman Burroughs.
		Thank you, Mr. Bell.
		If I can, I'll ask two questions.
		I think I'm going to just focus on a current rumor that I've heard, and I want to either quash it so that it doesn't grow or say what you will.
		On a show on Dark Matter Radio Network, another guest claimed that Sergeant Penniston made a deal to get his medical record for it, and in return, he would shut up.
		Does that sound plausible to you?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you.
		I'm glad you brought that up.
		There was a Congressman that was at the hearings, and he did a source of the rumor.
		He asked me what happened to Sergeant Penniston in this, and I gave him this answer.
		And this is coming from me now because Jim and I did go to the hearings.
		We did testify in front of these guys, you know, these mock hearings.
		He was all on board, and you can see the hearings online, that he, you know, he had health issues, that he was involved, that he wanted something done.
		After the hearings happened, and this CIA guy showed up, and the actual Steve Bassett actually was trying to make headway to get us in front of a real Congress.
		Jim backed off.
		And when I said he backed off, he actually did post a statement at one point saying the fact that he was threatened and he wouldn't elaborate, and that he actually had some records he turned over to the VA, and he was now being taken care of, and he wanted to drop it all.
		Now, it got kind of blown out of proportion that who threatened him, which he never said, number one.
		And number two, he did drop out of this.
		And the only question I had on all this was, why would you go in front of these people and say you had health issues and we weren't going to be taken care of and then later say you had records that took care of all the problem?
		That just didn't add up.
		But he did drop out of all of this once the CIA doctor got into it and there was an actual possibility that we could go in front of Congress.
		That's the best I can tell you.
unidentified		If I may get a second question, and my dogs always try and blackmail me that they're going to bark if I don't pay attention to them when I'm on the phone.
		I take it it was a large base.
		Reynolds was a large base.
		I'll make up a number, 10,000 airmen.
		Wouldn't there be a lot of witnesses?
		And is there some way to get a name of all the people on the base at the time and start trying to get more people to come out of the shadows and explain what they saw?
		Many, many people must have seen the orchestra in the sky that night, not just the handful that have come forward and are in the spotlight.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, so first of all, it was the largest tech fighter wing in the Air Force.
		So it was a joint base.
		It was the largest tech fighter wing in the Air Force.
		So it was a large base.
		Over the years, different people have come forward, talked about it, and then they disappear.
		I mean, we have come up with numerous people that we've got recorded that have talked about different things, and then they just seem to fade away.
		And there's been other people recently that are starting to come forward.
		So I'm hoping somehow, some way, that eventually a bunch of us can have a reunion somewhere and all get together.
		And I think that would solve a lot of the issues.
unidentified		Maybe that's a book for me to write to track down all these folks.
unidentified		But thank you for your time, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's certainly a book for somebody to write.
		Thank you.
		And to get it all straightened out.
		I guess straightened out is a pretty good word for it.
		Let's go here to the phone lines and say hi, you're on there.
unidentified		Hello.
		In Richmond, Virginia, you're seeing WTWW shortwave 5085 kHz.
		Yes.
		John, I really want to thank you for doing this show.
		I think you and our, I wanted to thank you both for your service to the Air Force.
		But John, you in particular, I think, deserve a purple heart for the injuries that you received in service to your country, and I hope that you properly awarded that.
		If not, I think there'd be a lot of people pushing for that to happen.
		Now, I have taken the moniker, you can see on Midnight Fans, which is one of our fellows fan sites, of plasma and pluriton for a very good reason.
		Plasma and Plariton is the kind of physics that's activated by these terahertz waves that can produce the kind of energy that you need to do a warp drive.
		And what a plasma and pluriton is, is it's a photon of, in this case it would be terahertz white photons, that are crawling along a dielectric plane with the electromagnetic field, the electric field pinned to the dielectric and the magnetic field free to move perpendicular to that.
		This is the kind of physics that's going to allow all kinds of new technologies for warp drives, very fast transfer of spaceships to Mars and nearby planets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he certainly said that was exactly what's involved.
unidentified		Right?
unidentified		Yeah, and I think that I have written some stuff over at the Midnight Fans site that you might want to look at, John, that talks about this just a few days ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to have to cut it short there.
		If there's something in print, though, everybody can go look at it if they wish.
		All right.
		We'll be back.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		My guest, John Burroughs.
		right there.
unidentified		Thank you.
		We had to get out before magic out away.
		The clock strikes 12, and Midnight in the Desert is counting Package Your Way on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, please direct your finger digits to the bell 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		I get a sense about these things, and I have a sense that while John has told us a great deal, that there are things that he has not mentioned publicly.
		Are there things, John, that really are so out there that you would be afraid of people, what people would think of you?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, somewhat.
		And also the fact that one of the things, because I really didn't spend most of my life in this, but the things that concern me the most is people coming out and making these predictions and all this stuff.
		And it gets people worked up and nervous.
		And one of the things that I try, and I'm doing my best not to do, is to go too deep into stuff because honestly, the stuff that came out in 88 just was so hard for me to stomach and believe in the first place, and so much of it's coming true.
		But I don't want to be somebody that's out there adding to it.
		Yes, adding to it.
		I do believe, I'll say this much.
		I do believe these next four years are critical to mankind's survival.
		And what I mean is, do I mean we'll be wiped off the face of the earth?
		No.
		But I think where we'll end up in the next four years will have a big say in how we evolve over the next 100 to 200 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully we do continue to evolve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to Jeremy on Sky Pie.
unidentified		Hi, hi, John.
		Hello.
		Hey, John, I was wondering, this life force you encountered, could it possibly be looking forward to, for when you encountered it, to what's going to happen next Wednesday when they turn on CERNs and possibly engage a frequency we shouldn't be messing with?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I've been following the CERN stuff, and there's no doubt that there is some concern there.
		I mean, it's not just me, but a lot of people, you know, have written about it and stuff.
		CERN is a very interesting project, and it goes to the God particle.
		And when you start messing with that, I think you saw the movie Angels and Demons and stuff.
		It's something that, you know, it's basically science trying to outdo faith, and that's not a good thing.
		So do I think that the world's going to end next week or the week after?
		No.
		Do I think it could affect something that could affect mankind?
		That's possible.
		But I don't, in my magic ball, if you want to call it, I don't think the world's going to end anytime soon.
		I just don't think maybe we're going to live quite as comfortably as we have over the last 40 or 50 years.
unidentified		Okay, then my second part, I know Arts acknowledged it, and I call her before acknowledged the triangle sightings over Arizona and other places.
		What do you make of the Air Force trying to tell us that it was flares being dropped from A-10s?
		We've all seen flares dropped.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's one of the things I've kept quiet over the years.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I was actually in Arizona when that happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you a witness, actually?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I didn't really see anything that night, but what I will tell you is this, okay?
		The flares came way after.
		I know that, you know, that stuff wasn't in the sky at the time when the first stuff happened.
		I had a friend who was very reliable that saw something come out from the Tucson area up over Alatuke and head out towards Luke.
		I passed this on to James Fox a few years ago that something landed at Luke that night that came in and went down and Luke was there for a short time.
		And I correlate that from the fact that my friends saw it come over the mountain.
		The guys out there at the base, I wasn't on duty at night, but they talked to me about it afterwards, obviously, because of my background with stuff that's happened in the first place.
		They couldn't wait to tell me about it.
		And then it was confirmed later when they said it left, there was a truck driver that saw something leave and go over I-10 south towards Gila Bend.
		So you're asking me what I think based on technology and everything else, I think it was something we were involved with.
		And I think there's a good possibility there was something else going on at the same time.
unidentified		Thanks for time, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		Do you think that our military or the British military or a military anywhere has, I don't know, I hate to say made a deal with but communicated with these beings?
		Is it your view that that's where this new technology that we seem to be right on the edge of, I mean really on the edge of, is coming from?
		From contact?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's the $60,000 question.
		I do not know for sure what we dealt with.
		I've never tried to say that.
		People have said it was E.T., people have said it's time travelers and such.
		I do know that it's in Condine, which is declassified documents from the British.
		They were secret, which is a big deal.
		And they've admitted in these documents that all these countries, the major countries, Russia, China, us, France, they all are aware of this phenomenon.
		They're all working on this phenomenon.
		They're trying to weaponize it and use the technology.
		I've been in contact with scientists that have admitted to this.
		And the other factor in all of this is, yes, I mean, you have to look at the weaponry, the advancement in technology.
		And yes, I do believe, and I've also talked to Dr. Edgar Mitchell about this, who was on these committees.
		And in Condine, it says they brought astronauts in to study this, that they're studying what we dealt with and what other people dealt with.
		And what's the first thing mankind wants to do with it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Weaponize it.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Weaponize it.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And they want to use it against each other and on each other, their own countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so it may well be, John, that what we're talking about here, if turned, if weaponized, would make nuclear weapons look like firecrackers.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's been speculation, if you go back, that this was mainstream.
		Remember how Israel was so upset about two years ago about the Iran nuclear deal?
		And then all of a sudden one day there was a meeting, they backed off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people speculated that they were told that the nuclear weapons don't matter anymore.
		That we can counter that.
		Now, does that mean that we could stop everything?
		Probably not.
		But does that mean we could probably stop the launching of missiles and do different things like that?
		That was the speculation that went on that day.
		And it wouldn't surprise me based on this technology I've seen when I was still on active duty.
		I was on active duty after 9-11.
		So, yeah, we made huge advancements in technology.
		And based on these documents, you can't help but tie it into the study of whatever we dealt with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go to Florida somewhere.
		You're on the air with John Burrows.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, Art.
		This is Tom from Florida.
		Hey, John, how are you, sir?
		Thank you for your service, both of you.
		My question is, is your opinion of this possibly being a test to see how the actual your base would react to something like this?
		But deeper than that, what if this is actually coming from 40 years in the future because of the drone you said that they were designing based on this technology?
		I mean, it could actually be the drone that they developed sent back to that time, so it all would happen.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, the test part, if you mean, do I believe that for three nights they had us running around in the forest in a foreign country and all this stuff going on within the WSA?
		No, I don't believe that that was the test.
		Now, up until a few years ago, time travel was just science fiction.
		But in the last five or six years, it's no longer science fiction.
		And what Penniston said was they were coming from the future back.
		So could it be something from the future coming back?
		I can't argue that point now, especially with all the stuff that's coming to light in the last few months or the last year.
		Now the question would be, are they coming back by accident or what?
		That's another whole Pandora's box.
unidentified		Well, you know how you said that they were developing a drone that was actually based on what it is that you all encountered that evening?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I said I saw pictures of a drone that's getting ready to go into active duty that looks a lot like what Sergeant Pennyson drew in 1980, yes.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And what I'm saying is, do you think it's possible that it's that actual drone going back to you guys in 1980?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		It could be very well.
		And the interesting thing is, that's why I brought up the movie Final Countdown.
		If, in fact, something happened, and there's a lot of speculation between 18 and 22 that a lot of bad things are going to happen financially, militarily, and everything else.
		Let's just say this becomes operational Or there's a good chance it already is operational if you know how the military works.
		Then something happens here in the future, a year, two, three, four years from now, it could go all the way back to 80 because one of the speculations of time travel is it can only go back as far as when it was first developed.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Yeah, that just sounds like that could be a very interesting possibility.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		If you'd have told me that five years ago, I'd have laughed at you, not anymore.
unidentified		Well, thank you, sir.
unidentified		And thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		And let's go here.
		You're on the air with John Burroughs.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		I have a couple of questions for John.
		I would like to know, John, do you have any idea where these people came from that were in contact with you or who they might represent?
		And also one additional question.
		You said that you were under the impression they were going to contact you again.
		Was there any timeline given for that?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		The first part, no, not really.
		The guy that was doing hypnosis seemed to have some insight.
		And I can't remember exactly where he thought they were coming from, but I never really speculated.
		In fact, it's typical of my personality.
		When he said a certain thing, I said it in the hypnosis that what you're saying is wrong.
		It's not possible.
		And it was left at that.
		Now, the part of when they're coming back, it appears they didn't give a direct date, but it does appear the way they described it, we very well could be coming into that timeframe right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, so you could be getting a visit pretty soon.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Under hypnosis, yes, it's possible, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you feel about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is that scary to you, or have you come to terms with it, or how do you feel about it?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, first of all, for it to come out under hypnosis back in 88 was mind-blowing and all the stuff around it.
		But as years have evolved, it's become more and more clear that what seemed so crazy in 1988 now could be possible.
		The only question I have is why would they come back for me?
		Why did they make that so clear?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they obviously had intense interest in you or you wouldn't have been going back.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I can't argue, and that's been talked about.
		And that's some of the things I don't like to talk a lot about because just think about it.
		I'm just the good old boy from the Midwest out there doing my job, mixing you know, over a three-night period.
		I have some kind of contact twice.
		There's missing time.
		I get injured by it.
		And then under hypnosis, it goes into more detail, which seems to be playing out now.
		And not only that, they're coming back.
		So, I mean, that's a lot to handle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
		DD 214 changed.
		Medical records classified.
		My goodness.
		Hold tight right there.
		952-225-5278 or in North America.
		MITV 5-1.
unidentified		MITV 5-1.
		�� Want to take a ride?
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket.
		When you call 1-952, call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very easy number.
		John Burroughs is here.
		He was at Rindlescham when all this happened, three nights.
unidentified		The only one there, three nights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, a message was imparted.
		Some of it has come back through hypnosis.
		Probably not all of it.
		He was key in some way to all of this and to them.
		Or in my opinion, he would not have come back even that second night.
		What a great mystery it is.
		John, what...
		Right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And on the break, I just did check.
		I know there's a lot of interest from you on my hypnosis and stuff.
unidentified		Yes.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		There is a 10-minute clip of it on YouTube.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		There's a 10-minute clip of it that was used at one point, and it's on there.
		So if anybody wanted to go and look at it, they can.
		And the interesting thing about it was one of the biggest skeptics and debunkers of the Reynolds case looked at it and said he believed it.
		So I don't know what to do with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this will come up under your name, a certain number.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Just put John Burrow's hypnosis, and it comes up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yep.
		How long were you under?
		Do you recall that?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		If I remember right, because I don't have at least three hours for that one.
unidentified		Three hours.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I've been under a couple other times, too, that were very, very disturbing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So other things came out?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is the whole thing that's just hard to explain.
		A few years later, this would have been probably around 2009, 10, there was a hypnotherapist that got involved.
		There was some stuff that was done through Stanford and everything.
		And she actually wanted to take a look.
		And the weird thing about it was when I went under, there are certain things that started with interesting things like went to a door, I saw pie, and then tried to take me back, and all of a sudden, and it's really bizarre, it was out at one point, but I think it's not on the line anymore.
		But my whole body almost lifts off the chair and I'm shaking.
		When I tried it, there was like this opening, like a vortex or something appeared, and I was trying to go through it, and the blue lights and something else interfered and wouldn't let me go down and go back in time again.
unidentified		Wow.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And she wasn't like, you know, people say, well, these hypnosis people, she was actually a therapist certified, and she did a lot of work.
		And even she couldn't explain it.
		There seems to be a block, even now under hypnosis, that I can't get to where it used to be after that one time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		All right.
		Let's go to a call.
		Hello there.
		You're on the air, wherever you are.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Don?
		My name is Mike, and we met in Eureka Springs, Arkansas at the UFO conference.
		It was Linda Howell.
		It was you, Jim Mars, and I believe Richard Dolan was floating around.
		We were at a cocktail party in a little hotel in Eureka Springs, and I came up to you and I said, John, I've had the same experience 100%.
		And we started talking, and you were surrounded by all kinds of people.
		And then Linda walked by, and I told her, and she wanted to know about my dreams.
		But the same thing, the party was breaking up, and she was kind of ushered off.
		And I've been trying to contact you for, I think, six years.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can remember that.
		That was a good conference.
		Yeah, I remember that.
unidentified		Do you remember me, though?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I remember the conversation.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
unidentified		Okay, in 1975, I was stationed in Arist Concerted in Kirschkerns, Germany.
		And in the middle of the night, I had a flat down on the street.
		I had a girlfriend.
		And I'd go home, and my job every day was to walk 12Ks around the post with an M16 with blanks in it pretending like we were fighting in the Vietnam triangle formation.
		I was third squad, third platoon.
		One night, they came to my house, two guys, Hilger and Russo, that's all I know of them, with their M16s.
		And they said, Harris, or Mike, you've got to come with us right now.
		This is like 2 in the morning.
		And I went, whoa, so we went back to the post.
		They each gave us a box of 20 rounds of M16s and said, put it in your ammo pack.
		And usually I had a drag around the 90, but that night they just gave me the 16.
		And we went out the gate and we started to do our patrol.
		About four hours into it, because it took all day.
		Four hours into it, Sergeant Johnson came over and said, okay, you guys, take 10, and we have your rations, you know, the old-fashioned rations with the cans.
		Sit down and eat them.
		So Hilger and I and Russo sat down on this perch, and on the right side was the base, and on the left side was my flat, my little German apartment.
		And we were laughing because we were real close, but it was still about two hours' hike, and we had to go through a swamp and then load our blanks and all that kind of stuff.
		So I opened up a can of scrambled eggs and ham.
		I know it.
		And I had a P38, which is a can opener.
		And Russo said, throw it to me.
		We'll use my last name, Mike.
		So I threw it to him.
		And all of a sudden, I swear to God, John, and I was telling Linda, I was telling Linda, Linda, and I said, I got to tell somebody about this.
		I wrote an 85,000-word book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of a sudden, what?
unidentified		Oh, all of a sudden, we hear the whole company, the whole company was out.
		The whole company, in the middle of the night, first time ever.
		I was there 15 months, first time ever with live rounds, not loaded, but in our backpack.
		All of a sudden, Russia, I threw my P-38, and as soon as I did that, as soon as I did that, John, as soon as I did that, the people, the whole company was in the swamp.
		There was a back road and a little trail you had to go down and the place where you unload your blanks, and you're kind of in the swampy area anyway.
		That's about an hour and a half hike in formation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have to take that out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to get to the point of your story, sir.
unidentified		We lost an hour and a half.
		I came back down the hill.
		They said they sent out a platoon looking for us, and then we crawled under a bush.
		I said, no, that didn't happen.
		I ended up in this room with at least 15 brass.
		And they all had, the smallest one was a captain.
		And the guys on the right of me had these portfolios, and they kind of all looked the same.
		And I had a colonel there.
		And the other two guys, and I don't know who they are, really, except for nicknames, they just pleaded that they didn't know what happened.
		They got off and I wouldn't do it.
		I said, no, there was no way that we could have been asleep.
		They said, we sent a platoon after you, my platoon, and you weren't there.
		I said, there's no way.
		So eventually they kept saying, you have to sign this statement that I went under a bush and I wouldn't do it.
		They said, you can be court-martialed.
		I said, buddy, I didn't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I get it.
		So you had missing time.
		And you also had missing time, right, John?
		Quite substantial amount of missing time.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first night 45 minutes.
		And when we came back in, our watches were 45 minutes slow.
		But they actually did have, they did not have, they could not account for where we were radio contact or anything for 45 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just gone.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		I mean, I guess you have to look at it from that standpoint.
		We went out in the forest for 45 minutes.
		They couldn't raise us on the radio.
		They didn't know what happened to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On Skype, Benson, you're on the air with John Burrows.
		Hello.
unidentified		I said, hey, what's up, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're up.
unidentified		I just wanted to ask John a question.
		I've been listening, you know, on and off tonight and kind of working around the house and whatnot.
		But I was wondering if he ever recalled what beings he encountered or what he encountered out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've been describing that all evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, the only thing you recalled consciously were lights, right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		It was lights.
		It was like an oval orangey-shaped light, you know, with other lights within it.
		And yeah, I never saw a craft or could describe a craft, but two other people that were with me actually did, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And under hypnosis, you then recalled actually.
		That's a part where I'd love it.
		I wish we had that table.
		I wish we could actually listen to it.
		I'm sure you've listened to it many times, right?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, that 10-minute clip, I've listened to it several times, yes.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		The whole tape, a few times, but the 10-minute clip, it's very moving, and it goes into the part with the interaction with Colonel Hall and the telepathic lights and everything else.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say you want to get back together again with the others involved in this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really want to do that?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'd love.
		I just think it would be really good for all of us, and anyone else that was on the fringes, like that one guy asked, that saw something or knows something.
		I just think it would be really nice to get us all together and sit down and go over everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there things that you would discuss with them that you're unable to discuss in a forum like this on the airport?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would definitely.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		You know, depending on how the conversation went and stuff, I would be more open probably with certain people than others.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		I wonder what I could do to get you to tell us what you have not yet told us.
		I just, I can feel it.
		There are any number of things that you haven't told us.
		All right, John.
		Hold tight.
		Our public number, 952-225-5278.
		Otherwise, stripe on in.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		No call screening.
		No waiting on hold.
		No requirement to kiss Art's ring.
		Just good talk.
		Join Art by calling 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALLART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about the Rendlesham incident, and our guest is John Burroughs, the only one who was there all three days of that incident.
		He feels that he's going to see them again.
		It's quite an interview.
		If you have a question for John, area code 952-225-5278.
		And of course, Skype.
		There's something I want you to hear a little bit of because it's really odd sounding.
		Really is odd sounding.
		It's John under hypnosis.
		And I want to make sure to ask John, you don't mind if I play a little of this, do you?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, no, go right ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
		This would be John under hypnosis.
		It's wild.
unidentified		You know, we're like going, what are we getting into?
		I don't know.
		What's going on?
		We don't know.
		The radio keeps coming back.
		We can't reach us for a while.
		We can't reach them.
		We're getting real nervous.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		We're getting scared.
unidentified		We can't get on the radio.
		We can't go much farther if they don't hear us on the radio no more because we don't like what's going on.
		Tom Tennison.
		Tom Tennison.
		What do you think?
		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		Stop.
		Stop right now.
		Stop right now.
		Let's try to reach him on the radio.
		Okay.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		We've got him.
unidentified		We've got him.
		Yeah, it's still there.
		It seems to be in the clearing.
		It seems to be in that clearing up ahead.
		Can we go far and farther?
		US, yes, go on farther.
		Find out what's going on.
		Find out what's going on.
		Let's go, guys.
		Look, look, look at that.
		That it is.
		Hit the ground.
		Hit the ground.
		I run.
		I run.
		We die.
		I die.
		Shoot, John.
		Shoot.
		Shoot.
		I can't.
		I can't.
		I don't have my gun.
		Who's telling you to shoot?
		Cardin Pennsylvania.
		I don't have my gun.
		I don't have my gun.
		They told me not to bring it.
		Yes, they did.
		They told you at the last minute to bring it.
		Describe what it is he wants you to shoot at.
		White, light.
		A weird, oval-shaped light.
		It's covering.
		It's hovering.
		It's hovering.
		It's strongly.
		Flashing back and forth, flashing on it.
		The white.
		It's white, but there's lights below it.
		There's little lights below it.
		There's the orange lights.
		There's the red light.
		It's like the sun.
		But it's not shaped like the sun.
		It's like an oval-shaped thing.
		And it's pulsating.
		It's pulsating.
		How far away is it?
		10.
		Maybe 15.
		How big is it?
		I don't know.
		It keeps changing.
		It keeps changing.
		The lights are pulsating.
		It's hard to judge.
		It's hard to judge.
		It's there.
		It's there now.
		It's moving back.
		It's moving away.
		It's up in the air.
		It's up in the air.
	It's moving back.
	It's moving back.
	It's up to the tree.
	It's moving back.
	It's moving back to the distance.
	But it's there.
	It's downloading.
	How did he get to the tree?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	We're falling.
	Come on.
	We're going to fall.
	We've got to fall.
	I can't wait to get the radio.
	The heck with the radio.
	Put it down.
	We don't need it.
	Put it in your pocket.
	Let's go.
	Let's go.
	We don't care what they say.
	We've got to find out.
	Put it in the back.
	We've got to find out.
	Let's go.
	Sput out.
	Put out more.
	Okay.
	Let's go.
	Move.
	Move.
	Okay.
	Be careful.
	Be careful.
	I feel weird.
	I feel I feel I feel I feel tingling.
	I feel tingling.
	We are still tingling.
	We are gonna know.
	We gotta know.
	We gotta know.
	Who is it?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	What is the UFO?
	What is it?
	I don't know.
	It's not real.
	It's light.
	It's not an object.
	It does not appear to be a silent total object.
	It just appears like it could be an object because it gives the impression of an object, but it's mostly light.
	It's all light.
	It seems like life to me.
	A geography of life.
	That's a shape made of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so I'm going to stop there.
		People can listen to it on their own further than that if they like, But man, that was odd stuff, John.
		It sounds your voice sounds almost, I don't know what the right word is, manic.
		Very, very different.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, no doubt.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I mean, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Manic is, and you were told to shoot at it, you said.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a little discrepancy.
		That's when I said the three of us have different memories.
		I guess at one point there was a discussion that I wasn't involved with where I was supposedly going to be cleared to take my sidearm with me.
		Penniston knew about it, but I wasn't briefed.
		Now, the interesting thing was that came under hypnosis.
		Now, Kabansak has said, and he's done an interview, he said when we got close to it, I actually drew my weapon, and then we all blacked out.
		So, you know, I don't remember taking my weapon with me, but that's what I'm saying.
		There's some things that just you can't account for.
		You can't make sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The pace and the tone of your voice in that was just incredible to me.
		Just incredible.
		Let's go to the phones.
		I think Omaha, Nebraska.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		Great, great show, Art.
		John.
		Yeah, question regarding kind of future happenings and stuff.
		Out of curiosity, does polar shift fit into the future stuff, John?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I didn't hear what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He asked about if a pole shift is in the offing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As if you, maybe you know.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		It really didn't say under my hypnosis.
		It didn't say that.
		But it did make it clear that whatever we're doing, which is nothing to do with nuclear weapons, but it had to do with EM fields and frequencies, would affect mankind.
		So when you say a pole shift, I mean, I suppose if we did something bad enough to the frequencies, it could affect the poles itself, which I know that there's a lot of speculation out there that they're shifting as we talk.
unidentified		Yeah, because did you see that documentary chasing ice by any chance?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the pole is drifting towards Siberia.
		The magnetic north is drifting.
		We know that.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		What happened in this documentary, they showed it, they caught it, but there was a chunk the size of Manhattan Island that slipped.
		It broke off and it slipped.
		But they showed, comparatively speaking, it was the size of Manhattan Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I wonder, there are a lot of people right now feeling a sort of a mass, well, what's the right word for it?
		There's been this building thing, for example, about this month, September, John, and masses of people are worried about extinction-level events and all kinds of things.
		I wonder if somehow it's all related.
		We go through these cycles every now and then when a lot of people seem to get disturbed about something they feel is coming.
		This is one of those times.
		We're certainly in it right now.
		There really are.
		I know people, John, packing their wives and their children up in cars and taking off to areas that they feel are safe.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		There's no doubt that something's going on.
		You can go back to, was it 2000, was it 12 when everybody was concerned then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This feels even bigger than that.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I can't argue that, that there is even a bigger shift going on.
		That's when you ask me.
		There's so much that I've learned, that I've had given to me that I've come across.
		And I honestly, this is the one time, you know, all this doomsday or if it happens, we're all screwed.
		I just don't think this is the moment in time where a lot of that could happen.
		Do I have a feeling that something's going on?
		Yes.
		Do I think that things are going to change?
		I do.
		But I can't put my finger on that I think this is the month where everything falls completely apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, here is a question for you then.
		Maybe you can answer an overall question.
		In other words, do you feel that these entities, these creatures, these aliens, whatever they were, are basically here to help us, here to investigate us, or here to do something not so good to us?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can, again, I want to reiterate this is hypnosis now, not what I remember.
		Two things stood out in it.
		They were here to monitor us.
		They were going to do their best not to interfere.
		But if it came at a certain point, I think they, I could only tell you what it appears to be on the hypnosis tape.
		They had an idea of what went on and what went wrong in the future that brought them back to this timeframe to go forward then to alter what happens to keep it from affecting the future like it did.
		That's the best I can tell you.
		So it appears that whatever they're trying to do is to not destroy mankind, but to help mankind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, boy, I hope you're right about that.
		Let's go to Newburgh, New York on the phone.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Derek, glad to hear you back on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, glad to be back on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Oh, indeed.
		Love your show.
		John, you'll be delighted to know this in a certain respect is that on December 26, 1980, I was stationed at your, and you know this base, RAF Chicksands.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yep, Chicksands where the DIA was located at.
unidentified		That is correct.
		And I worked for an art, this base where I was stationed.
		It was a top-secret facility.
		And this is what I wanted to say to John, is that everything you are saying Makes 100% sense because I was working that evening, midnight shift.
		I was off for Christmas.
		Three years I spent TDY in England.
		I did not have to work Christmas.
		I remember this very clearly.
		That evening, we had incredible activity, amazing activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		And yes, it was unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what kind of activity?
unidentified		Without disclosing top-secret information, obviously, as John has been mentioning, he said the danger are a frequency, radio frequency, and all that good stuff.
		Well, that was part of our job to do that in that realm.
		So he is correct in the sense that what we are doing in the, you know, with messing with frequencies and whatnot, electronic frequencies, yes, it is disturbing the, however you want to call it, our well-being for the future.
		And it's very complicated and it's very hard to try to explain.
		But he is correct.
		He is very correct.
		That evening was buzzing with activity.
		Activity meaning in electronic surveillance and activity was very, very busy, very acute.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		You were working in the elephant cage that night, weren't you?
unidentified		Yes, I was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Not an SP.
unidentified		Now, you're AFS.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		No, I know exactly, but the elephant cage is what they had there.
		It was in San Diego and some other places.
		And eventually it went from that size down to just a little radar.
unidentified		That is correct.
		That is correct.
		Yes.
		And what you are saying, the two things you are saying about how we, in fact, you know, messing the air with frequencies and whatnot, bringing about problems.
		And secondly, the fact that Art asked you, well, you know, are these guys really, you know, maybe are they devious?
		Are they, you know, do you hurt us?
		Are they want to help us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It's pretty much Art.
		They're curious, as John, it's a curiosity, like John said.
		Like, if we got so advanced, like Interstellar, the movie, if we got so advanced another, say, a thousand years from now, we were able to do these things, we would be curious, kind of hide-and-seek with them and trying to find out about them.
		And I think that's basically what they're trying to do.
		They really don't want to hurt us, but they know something's up.
		And the last thing I'll say is that today, NASA just announced that this was the warmest summer in world history and by a far wider margin than any time in history.
		The change is beginning, and it's beginning.
		It's exponential now.
		It's out of control.
		So John is correct when he said 2018 to 22.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is about right.
		You know, that's interesting.
		I had not heard that proclamation from NASA, but I'm not surprised.
		We've been getting warmest records, warmest records, warmest records.
		So this is just yet another one.
		And I wonder how close to the breakpoint we are.
unidentified		It's now irreversible.
unidentified		Sadly, I wish I did not say it because I have three grandchildren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But my goodness, that's quite a statement to make.
		How do you know it's irreversible?
		Even I worry that could be the case.
		I'm just wondering how you know.
unidentified		I have a friend who's at the National Weather Service.
		He's a meteorologist there for many, many years.
		This fella not only predicted Katrina, but he keeps sending me emails.
		This is going to happen, that's going to happen.
		And he's never been wrong.
		And I'm saying, wait a minute, whoa, don't my grandkids have a chance here?
		Give me some good news.
		His bottom line is that because of the record-breaking volcanic activity for the past two years, man-made emissions are not cutting back, and some are trying, but not enough, and so on and so forth.
		He said it's just overwhelming now that it will be irreversible.
		But then what will happen is it will then level out.
		But by 2050, it will peak, and then it'll start to level out.
		But the damage by 2050-26, he said, will be horrific.
		Absolutely horrific.
		And that's not good because that upsets me personally because of my family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That upsets me for the same reason.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that sort of resonate, John?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does.
		And the interesting thing, what he talked about, there was Cobra Mist was out there before, and it got shut down because of inline interference.
		So there was also some stuff going on with that.
		But I don't know if you remember this, but years ago I used to listen to your show at night.
		You had a guy come on, and it had to do with your movie.
		He was the scientist that said this was all going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		And eventually we're going to go into an ice age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		The climate is under rapid change.
		I'm sure what the caller said is correct.
		NASA probably made some kind of proclamation about the warmest ever on record.
		We've heard so many of those.
		But yeah, that prediction was made, and it is all coming true.
		And I am very concerned for the same reason I guess we all are.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I have a doubt.
		I don't think, though, it has to do that much with mankind itself.
		I think it has to do with where we're going through the Great Rift right now and some of the things that happens, that's happened in history before, where we heat up and then it cools back off again.
		So do I think that mankind's expedited it?
		Probably because of what we've done.
		But we've gone through this same thing before in history where we didn't have this kind of emissions for mankind, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		Well, look, we're getting now near the end of the program.
		We're almost done.
		There must be something you would like to say to everybody, John.
		It's an honor, first of all, to have you on the air.
		Big honor.
		But is there anything you want to leave people with?
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, a couple of things.
		First of all, I do believe we're going through some rough times, and I do believe things are going to get hard for us.
		I do think mankind still has the ability to turn it around, but we're going to have to do it collectively, not divide and conquer.
		Also, Art, you asked me about certain things.
		Well, I've been kicking around doing a book that's science fiction in nature, but it'll be based on a true story with the names changed and some stuff.
		So, I may put something out sooner than later that'll maybe help understand some things.
		But the interesting thing is just in the last five months, stuff that I thought was going to have to really try to go deep into science fiction-wise is actually starting to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, when you write a book, if you write a book and it's science fiction, we should read carefully between the lines for what you may know that you're putting in.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, but also the names and stuff that will be changed.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		I have to protect certain people that have come forward to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, thank you for being here.
john burroughs ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me on again, Art.
unidentified		Take care of him, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wanted the real thing on Rindlesham, and so there you have it from John Burroughs.
		There all three nights.
		Okay, well, listen, if I didn't say it earlier, I say it again.
		I'm going to take the night off tomorrow night.
		There'll be a repeat.
		Spend a three-day weekend with my family.
		All of you have a wonderful, wonderful weekend.
		Friday and weekend, and I'll see you on Monday from the high desert.

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