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Sept. 21, 2015 - Art Bell

02:16:05

Art Bell MITD - Dr Jeffrey Long NDEs

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dr jeffrey long

01:05:21

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the time of the day may be in your time zone, every single one of them covered by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		All right, so the rules of the show are really simple, no bad language, and only one call per show, and that's all the rules we have.
		A big thank you, as always, to Telos.
		Joe Talbot, thank you for the great sound.
		Keith Roman, my webmaster, Heather Wade, my producer.
		She's been working really hard.
		ScreamGuys, LV.net.
		Sales with Pete Eberhardt.
		Two-Name Radio, Leo Ashcraft, and Down Under, Jasmunda.
		All right, so it's a pretty big deal, and let me tell you what's going on.
		Let me explain best I can.
		We have had now for the last two months an outstandingly excellent internet radio program.
		Yes, we're on about 20 affiliates or 22 or 3, I don't know how many now.
		But we are ready to go kaboom.
		Now, we're about to engage XDS on October 1st.
		This is a big deal.
		And you say, well, what's XDS?
		XDS is the satellite receiver that about 4,000 radio stations, or just about, have sitting already in their radio station, satellite downlink receiver.
		And what we're going to do is we're going to feed XDS our internet stereo signal, our excellent stereo signal, I might add.
		And they will then send it up to satellite and down to radio stations.
		So up until this point, we have been just an excellent internet show with some very progressive stations already taking the show, as you know.
		Well, this will exponentially increase the possibility of broadcast stations taking the program.
		And therefore, I would ask all of you, go get a pencil and paper and jot this down so you don't forget it.
		Tomorrow, the next day, or the next week, but tomorrow would be good because you'll forget it otherwise.
		Call your local radio station and tell that they'll know what XDS is.
		That's X-ray Delta Sugar.
		They'll know what XDS is.
		So call up the local manager and tell him, guess what?
		Art Bell is back, and you can have him at the flip of a switch beginning October 1st.
		So if you would do that, it would be really, really wonderful.
		And we're about to sort of, well, go to the next level, frankly.
		All right, let's look at a little bit of news because that's all there is, a little.
		Warning that the Republican presidential race has become too nasty.
		No kidding.
		Scott Walker exited the 26 campaign on Monday and urged others to quit, too.
		Clear the field so somebody can emerge to take down Donald.
unidentified		Donald.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Getting too nasty?
		Wasn't it Ronald Reagan who said the 11th commandment would be never to speak ill of another Republican?
		What a bunch of sinners.
		Right?
		Volkswagen, speaking of sin, became the world's top-selling car maker, trumpeting the environmental friendliness, fuel efficiency, high performance of diesel-powered vehicles that met our clean air laws here in America.
		It was so good that pollution control advocates did their own tests, hoping to persuade other countries to enforce the same strict standards.
		And now they're in trouble.
		There's some saying they may have fudged on some of the strict standards.
		This is, I thought, interesting.
		It's from anomalous.com.
		And actually, it's what you might expect Snowden to say.
		Edward Snowden, yes, that one.
		When asked by an astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson, who we've got scheduled to come on the show, by the way, on the Star Talk podcast, whether a highly intelligent alien civilization might be communicating with encrypted messages, Snowden agreed.
		Said that an advanced civilization would realize the need to encrypt their communication in order to protect it from us humans, I guess.
		And this could also be the reason that we've never heard from other civilizations because what we just, you know, we hear it as noise, right?
unidentified		Lots and lots of noise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I don't know.
		That could be the reason or it could be nobody's out there.
		Speaking of out there, I'm really looking forward to tonight's topic.
		NDEs may be my favorite topic of all time.
		And that's what we've got tonight.
		Jeffrey Long, MD, is a leading near-death experience researcher.
		Dr. Long is a physician and radiation oncologist.
		So I guess he would have met with any number who have had NDEs, right?
		Oncology.
		Oncology is the medical use of radiation to treat cancer.
		He is practicing in, I believe it's HOMA, Louisiana.
		Dr. Long founded the Near-Death Experience Research Foundation.
		Over 10 years of research went into Dr. Long's study of over 1,300 NDEs presented in his book, Evidence of the Afterlife.
		The science of NDE experiences, this is by far the largest scientific study of near-death experiences ever presented anywhere.
		Over 4,000 actually NDEs are currently posted on www.nderf.org.
		That's www.nderf.org, making it by far the largest number of NDEs ever studied, and by far the largest number of NDEs publicly accessible in the world.
		Portions of the site have been posted in over 20 different foreign languages.
		This is leading to increased awareness that worldwide and across cultural boundaries, we all share these types of experiences, and they are similar to a degree that is medically inexplicable.
		I have done some serious thought about why all of this is so important to me, why I'm doing this, why I'm doing a program like this.
		And, you know, the answer is probably that I'm something of a heretic, I suppose.
		I mean, I look at virtually everything.
		I look at what is up above, that would be our Creator, I guess, I hope, and what is down below.
		Because it is said, if you have one, you have the other, right?
		And so I look at everything.
		I talk to priests.
		I talk to witches.
		I talk to people like the doctor we're going to have on tonight.
		I talk to anybody who can possibly help answer the question which is the most important, whether it's ghosts, it doesn't matter.
		It's weird creatures, proof of the paranormal, anything that proves that we are more than our physical, material presence.
		I gave this a lot of thought last night.
		I thought, well, to some, I'm certainly going to appear heretic, right?
		Heretic.
		And at times, I suppose, somewhat godly.
		But all over the place, that's what this program does.
		It doesn't limit examination of anything.
		So be it.
		Coming up in just a moment, Dr. Long, Jeffrey Long, with behind him 4,000 log NDEs.
		I'm looking forward to this one.
		I hope you are too.
		The evidence has got to be out there.
		It's just a matter of getting to it.
		From the high desert, this is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		The End
		Oh Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nye.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call Art.
		It is.
		Dr. Jeffrey Long, welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
		It is an honor to have you on the program.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an honor and a privilege to be here, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Been a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We talked a long time ago.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		We first talked.
		I was thinking about that just today, about 17 years ago.
		That's right.
		And here we are again.
		So certainly a great deal of very memorable discussions from all those years ago.
		A real honor and privilege and exciting, actually, to get back on the phone again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look out for tonight.
		I've got some serious questions.
		And I'm going to start with defining death.
		Can we do that?
		Because I know NDE.
		I know what an NDE is, and it can be under various circumstances of physical distress.
		But there are some people, doctor, who have really been, as far as I can tell, dead, dead.
		And when I say dead, dead, I mean absolutely no heartbeat, no brain waves.
		The blood has been drained from their body, and their body has been cooled, I guess to preserve the meat, as it were, but they've been brought back to life.
		And if that's not dead, dead, then how do we def what is the definition of really dead?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a great question.
		You know, and you're right, there's a spectrum as to how dead people are.
		For the research I do, I have what among NDE researchers is a fairly stringent criteria.
		In other words, they have to be so physically compromised that if they didn't get better, they'd suffer permanent, irreversible death.
		And many of them, of course, are having cardiac arrest or very, very severe episodes of physical compromise like that.
		But if someone is so severely compromised from illness or injury that they're unconscious, by definition, if that doesn't get better, then they're going to suffer permanent, irreversible death.
		And of course, if they're physically unconscious, as the very dictionary definition of unconscious means, no conscious experience, if they're having a lucid, organized experience at that time, a near-death experience, then I think that what qualifies what most people would consider to be a near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it does.
		But what I'm asking is if somebody is really dead, the way I think her name was Pam when she was taking Reynolds, yes, that's right.
		I interviewed her, and it was an amazing interview, by the way.
		One of the best NDEs I've ever heard.
		Amazing.
		Anyway, I can't imagine anybody being more dead than that.
		Can you?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I can.
		I hope you're sitting down when you hear this.
		But we actually have a small series of people that have shared their near-death experience that were actually on their way or actually in a morgue.
		These are people that were not only declared dead, but had the toe tag and were literally getting prepared for the final burial process.
		So that's about as dead as dead gets.
		And yet, remarkably, even when these folks are in very dramatic experiences, you can imagine how frightening it is to people that, by all intents and purposes and by physician determination that they were dead, all of a sudden they start stirring, make some sounds, and scares the heck out of people that are in the morgue or attending to them at that time.
		There's no question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can imagine, Doctor, that that's correct.
		It would scare the hell out of them.
		However, still, brain waves at that point are not being measured.
		Heartbeat is not, well, presumably it was measured before the tow tag went on and they went into the cooler.
		But brain waves are perhaps not being measured in that case, or maybe they were, I don't know.
		But when you have zero brain waves, I mean, that's really dead, it seems like to me.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and that's certainly the modern definition of death.
		You're absolutely right, Art, is absence of brain function.
		And that's why I'm especially interested in near-death experiences that occur under apparent adequate general anesthesia.
		Now, under that blanket of sleep, there's been some careful EEG, if you will, electroencephalogram measurements of people that are under general anesthesia.
		And there's a dissociation of brain electrical activity.
		I mean, it's a mishmash of residual electrical activity.
		And there's just no chance that you could have medically explicable conscious experiences at that time.
		And yet, as part of my research, we now have scores of people that had, while under general anesthesia, very typical and often very detailed near-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I know that you've seen the movie Flatline.
		You could not have not seen it.
		And there was recently a TV series called Proof.
		I don't know if you watched that or not, but they did an NDE experiment in that show as well.
		And I must say, I've said this on the air recently, and I've given it more and more thought.
		If I had, especially my age, if I had a medical team, doctor, and all the right stuff on hand, I think I would be willing to do a flat line experiment just to see.
		That's how much I want to know.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, your curiosity is enormous there.
		I mean, to the point you'd be willing to get yourself into a life-threatening event.
		And, I mean, that speaks volumes.
		That speaks both your interest and the interest of so many other people.
		And, of course, speaking from it medically as a physician, it would be, of course, unethical to do that.
		And of course, it would be difficult and probably impossible to find any physicians that would be willing to do that.
		I mean, heck, you'd lose your license if you did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, if it didn't work out and it was found out.
		Yes.
		But if there's any such a doctor listening out there willing to do it, you know how to get a hold of me.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		If that comes about, Art, I'd be delighted to hear about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you would.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		That would be fascinating.
		But still would encourage, you know, if there's anybody out there that considers personally flatlining themselves, you know, i.e.
		is in a suicide attempt, strongly encourage everybody to do something completely different, just pure science there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So let me ask you before we proceed, are you aware on the down low, without giving me names or places or anything else, of anybody else who has flatlined intentionally?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		And had it studied?
		That's a great question because you hear from people all over the world.
		To the best of my knowledge, that's not been reported.
		Not in my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say reported.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I asked if you had sort of heard of anything on the down low.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		On the down low?
		Yes.
		I have not.
		And I'm thinking, searching my memory banks here.
		I've never had anybody contact me, even on the FYI or on the secret about doing such an experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I cannot think of any question bigger in life than the one we're about to talk about.
		I simply can't.
		It is the biggest question.
		And I'd actually be willing to do that.
		All right, so fine, let's start out with what is an NDE?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		A near-death experience is an experience that's lucid and organized that occurs during a time of physical compromise so severe that physically the person is unconscious.
		Very often that's associated with cardiac or respiratory arrest.
		In other words, the heart or breathing stops around that time.
		But at an absolute minimum, for my research anyway, they need to be unconscious.
		They need to be unarousable, unresponsive, and at a time when there should be no conscious experience possible, when the brain is that far shut down, here for a certain percentage, around 9% to 18% of people that are that physically compromised, they have that very lucid, organized, and detailed and consistently observed experience, the near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I guess if I were a colleague of yours or a doctor myself, I might say something like, oh, come on, Dr. Long.
		I think you and I both know that the brain begins to do all kinds of things during the process of death, and that these things that are seen, even though they're similar, inexplicably similar among almost all people, are explainable by the brain doing what it does as it begins to die.
		It protects you, it gives you nice thoughts, whatever.
		Right?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and oh, absolutely, and that's something that I've also considered for hours and hours.
		Wouldn't we, and both me and other near-death experience researchers, really have all come to the conclusion that when you study the brain that approaches unconsciousness, the closer and closer you get to unconsciousness, the more absent, diminished, hallucinatory, unreal thoughts become.
		And as you just reach that threshold of unconsciousness, you've really got no organized, stable thinking.
		I mean, certainly many or most of the listeners have run into this too at some time in their life, sort of like falling asleep.
		I mean, the closer You get to sleep, the less and less you're thinking, and the less organized your memories or ability to reason are.
		And yet, as you progress all the way fully to unconsciousness at this time that your brain, by all medical measurements or measurements of anybody else, seems to be not functioning at all.
		You're not processing information, not hearing, seeing, not aware, not feeling.
		Right at that moment, here are people that is having not only a conscious experience, but in my survey, 75% of the people have more consciousness and alertness than their normal, earthly, everyday life.
		And that art's medically inexplicable.
		That shouldn't be happening when, by all medical appearances, the person's unconscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Doctor, I have noticed in later years that as I'm falling asleep, in the process of falling asleep, I begin to have these disorganized, interesting thoughts.
		In other words, no matter what I was thinking about as I was trying to fall asleep, when it actually began, I did begin having a series of...
		Why was I thinking about that?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's a good point.
		And certainly an experience we've all shared.
		But by the time you enter a full dream, dreams are, as is generally known by people that dream in general, they jump around.
		Experiences aren't in continuity like they are in near-death experiences.
		There's often hallucinatory, blatantly unreal content to these dreams or when you're approaching the dream state, and we just don't observe that in near-death experiences.
		And in fact, all those years ago when we were talking on the radio, and I did my very earliest survey I did of near-death experiences, I asked the key question, was your experience dreamlike in any way?
		And that was a question deliberately worded for people to answer in the affirmative, yes, if they had any aspect of their near-death experience that was related in any way to dreams that they were so familiar with.
		And I got such a resounding no response to that.
		I mean, people not only were basically telling me no, it wasn't dream-like, but Dr. Long, hell no.
		I mean, not even close, no way.
		And in fact, the response was so emphatically no to that question, I dropped it in later surveys.
		It almost seemed to be, you know, like near-death experiencers were almost insulted to think that this highly lucid, organized near-death experience was related in any way to dreams that you, I, your listeners, and everybody else generally has a lot of familiarity with.
		But near-death experiences are very, very different types of conscious experiences than dreams or approaching dreams or waking up from dreams are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		All right.
		I've got to ask this.
		As an oncologist, you would deal with a number of people in very dire medical circumstances, obviously with cancer, and a certain number of those would pass away.
		And so it's an obvious question to ask you if you began all of this from some experience you had in your personal practice.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a great question.
		You know, my interest in near-death experiences actually began about a quarter, oh gosh, about over 20 years ago when I was in my residency training in radiation oncology.
		And I was going through one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world, the Journal of the American Medical Association, looking for a cancer-related article.
		And completely by accident, I came across an article that had the term near-death experience in it.
		Now, I was very studious and didn't listen to the radio as much as I should have or watch television, so I'd never heard the term before.
		So mystified, I stopped and read the article and was immediately fascinated.
		Here was this description of scores of these types of experience all around the world, remarkably similar.
		And clearly, even with my very first reading about this, I knew everything that I had learned as a doctor up until that time, my entire life, absolutely could not explain these experiences.
		And that was certainly consistent with what the author of this article is writing.
		So I was so fascinated, I resolved right at that time that I wanted to learn more about near-death experiences.
		And not necessarily from reading other books or other research, but from getting the original source of the information, that being people that have actually had these near-death experiences.
		To me, the most reliable source of information.
		And see for myself, I guess for several years after that, I had a burning question in my heart, near-death experiences, are they real?
		Knowing that if I found through evidence that they were real, that would change my entire view of the universe.
		Art, that was about 17 years ago that I went through that.
		And even after I got my first batch of near-death experiences from my website and started my study, almost immediately I realized that near-death experiences are, in a word, real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		All right.
		Stay right there.
		Dr. Jeffrey Long is my guest.
		He is a very, very serious NDE researcher.
		4,000 of them collected thus far.
		It's going to be a heck of a show.
		Midnight in the desert.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Music.
		Thank you.
		The heart of the beat and from me on the dark.
		Thank you.
		Another night, another day, for the night.
		In the darkest time between dusk and dawn, from the high desert, it's Art Bell's midnight in the desert.
		Now, here's Art.
		It's always somewhere midnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we're on the air, it's midnight somewhere across the nation.
		It is literally sweeping across the country.
		Kind of cool, actually.
		Dr. Jeffrey Long is my guest.
		He is an NDE researcher, probably the premier NDE researcher.
		With this many 4,000 cases logged, I would say the premier researcher.
		And so lots of very important questions for him.
		And one of them is, people seem to report virtually the same thing.
		Well, you're going to be able to tell me that, but I mean, they see relatives.
		They certainly see a white light.
		But the big question, really a big one, is when people nearly die and have some sort of experience or no experience, the question is how many do have it?
		How many have an NDE?
		It's actually a relatively, I think, small number, isn't it?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right, Art.
		At the time of a life-threatening event, including a cardiac arrest, only about 9 to 18% of people will have a near-death experience.
		And it's like all or nothing.
		You either have a full-blown near-death experience, often with all the great detail and imagery that can occur, or you have absolutely nothing.
		I mean, you're literally a blank slate until consciousness returns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got this long story from an atheist, and the bottom line to it, without reading it to you, is he experienced absolutely nothing.
		And he was quite pleased about that, actually.
		And I wonder if that indicates to you that he's just a victim of statistics or he got what he believed he would get.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, having no conscious memory at the time of a life-threatening event is what happens to between, as we said, 91% to 82% of people that nearly die that have that close brush with death.
		So that's not at all unusual to me.
		We don't absolutely know why some people have a near-death experience and why some don't.
		Religious belief or even lack of religious belief doesn't seem to affect the probability of whether an NDE will occur or not or what the content of a near-death experience will be if it does.
		We have a series of near-death experiences from atheists.
		People that, unlike the gentleman you quoted, actually was an atheist, had a life-threatening event, and had a full-blown near-death experience.
		Almost none of them remained atheists after their near-death experience, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Okay.
		Is there any sense to be made as you look across the country and look across the world of demographics?
		In other words, age, where people are located, the culture they're in, their religious background, time in history, anything like that?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's a great question.
		I reviewed 30 years of scholarly research in a book chapter fairly recently, and part of that was to discover if there was anything that would predict what group of people, what demographic group would have a near-death experience at that time of a close brush with death, and absolutely nothing kicked out.
		Of all the studies that have been reported, including mine too, we just can't seem to predict from anything.
		Gender, age, NDEs occur in the young, children, the old, the elderly, people of all religious beliefs or no religious belief, atheists.
		And in fact, a remarkable part of my research is it doesn't seem to make any difference where in the world you are at the time you have a near-death experience.
		It doesn't make any difference whether you're a Muslim in Egypt or a Hindu in India or a Christian in the United States.
		All around the globe, near-death experiences are strikingly similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then let us get down to describing what most commonly occurs during an NDE.
		They are pretty common.
		This is one area where you run into a lot of common stories, right?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Now, the interesting thing is, now that I've studied over 4,000 near-death experiences, I've seen what other researchers have found, and that is while no two near-death experiences are the same, if you study a group of them, you see very similar elements, or if you will, characteristics of the near-death experience that occur typically in the same order.
		For example, there's that life-threatening event, an episode of unconsciousness, or even the heart stops.
		First element is typically what's called out-of-body experience.
		Consciousness rises typically above the body, and from that vantage point, they can see ongoing earthly events and often describe vividly the frantic efforts of others to resuscitate them and bring them back to life.
		Following that, they may go into or through a tunnel, and that's variably described, but interestingly, essentially never claustrophobic.
		It's no matter how large or small the tunnel is.
		Now, often at the end of the tunnel, there's a mystical, unearthly light.
		It's nothing like the light we're familiar with in our earthly, everyday lives.
		In fact, one near-death experiencer vividly pointed out that it was like a million times a million suns in its intensity, and yet it's never uncomfortable.
		It never hurts whatever visual apparatus they have during the experience.
		Now, at the end of the tunnel, there may be deceased loved ones, people that they knew in their earthly life that died, and even if the relationship was strained, these are joyous reunions.
		And yes, Art, they encounter deceased beloved pets as well.
		We have scores of beautiful, dramatic stories of that.
		They may describe unearthly, beautiful landscapes, building landscapes, often colors in these landscapes that are so beautiful that they have no earthly correlate.
		They literally don't have the language from their whole life prior experience to describe the beauty of the colors and what they're seeing.
		Very often they have what's called a life review.
		They may see a part or even all of their prior life.
		And very often, near the end of the experience, there may be what's called a boundary, a creek across the path they're on, a fence, a chasm, often are some of the more common ones.
		And at that moment in the near-death experience, they often have to decide, are they going to stay there in that unearthly, beautiful realm or return to that earthly life and that body which is fighting to stay alive.
		And that's the brief, more common elements we see in near-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I'm going to ask you hard questions because that's what makes a good interview.
		You mentioned that they frequently see those that are working on them, doing their work, trying to get them back, and their frantic efforts to try and get them back, right?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, frantic resuscitation efforts, especially for those that coded, whose heart stopped, they have that out-of-body experience.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		They're over their body and often vividly and very accurately, I'm Matt, described their own resuscitation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if true, for me, even that's enough.
		I mean, if people can come back and actually describe what was done or the order in which it was done or what was said while they were gone.
		You know, that's proof.
		However, I seem to remember it may have been a 60-minute segment, something like that, where at one emergency room somewhere, they put a clock up.
		Actually put a clock up on top of equipment so that if somebody were to float to the top of the room and look down and see the clock, they would be able to say, A, they saw the clock and B, I guess what time it was or whatever.
		And nobody ever came back and described that clock.
		And yet people are able to describe these resuscitation efforts, even things that are being said.
		So you knew about that?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's been about, we're up to six now, prospective near-death experiences are called, where they put, and they call them targets.
		And they can be clocks.
		One of the more sophisticated methodologies was actually a laptop computer that played different colors, pictures, and words.
		And they would be placed in an area where they thought there would be people that would have like cardiac arrests.
		Well, usually not so much operating rooms.
		I need to keep those sterile.
		But emergency rooms, I guess occasionally operating rooms, but just places where people were emergency rooms, places where people were critically ill.
		Of those six prospective studies, there have been, as of I think, the most recent data, 13 that had a near-death experience and had an out-of-body experience.
		None of them described a target, but if you read these articles, none of them had their consciousness directed toward the target.
		You see, when you're putting a target in the emergency room, in some type of critical care unit, you really have to put that way up on the side out of the shelf.
		People need to have access to the patient.
		You can't put it directly above them because that's a patient care area.
		So it's not surprising to me that people, if they haven't had their consciousness directed toward that target and they don't see it, you can't really say it wasn't there.
		Of course, when they have a cardiac arrest and your consciousness goes above the body, what are you going to look for?
		Are you going to go look for a target placed in the room or are you going to look down at that action, your own body, and the resuscitation going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I was going to add that.
		I mean, come on, if I'm out of my body and I'm looking down at myself, possibly dead, I've got a lot more on my mind than what's on a clock or a laptop somewhere.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and certainly if anybody during any of those studies had had their consciousness or vision, if you will, directed toward the target and didn't see it, I would accept that as a significant negative finding.
		But absolutely none of them had their vision or consciousness directed toward the target, so we really don't know.
		However, Art, exactly like you were just saying there, it is amazing the detail that people bring back, the resuscitation efforts.
		We've had people even describe details down to the number on the defibrillator unit that brought them back.
		And the details are that accurate and that verifiable.
		And we're not talking about a small number here.
		In my research database, we have hundreds and hundreds of these types of experiences.
		And part of my research is to go through all these experiences and see, were they wrong?
		How often were they wrong?
		Did they miss?
		Was they describing something that was hallucinatory, that didn't happen?
		And that's only a few percent, a very, very small percentage that describes something that did not actually seem to really happen.
		So for virtually everybody that has a near-death experience, what they're seeing and what they're hearing in the out-of-body state, when they come back and describe it and often go back and verify it later, it's accurate down to the finest details.
		And I might add, not only is it observations over their physical body, but we have dozens and dozens of near-death experiences where they're describing events geographically far from their earthly body.
		For example, they code in the operating room.
		Yeah, their heart stops in the operating room, and their consciousness may drift outside of the operating room and actually go.
		We've had people describe what's being said and done in the nursing station at that very moment in the hospital cafeteria where their friends and family are anxiously awaiting results of the surgery.
		And yet, every single time, or virtually every time, when the near-death experiencers investigate that later after they recover from what nearly killed them, it is stunningly accurate what they described.
		Information they absolutely could not have known by any other mechanism unless their consciousness was actually there observing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask this, Doctor.
		You have a lot of colleagues, obviously, probably many of them, you know, in emergency rooms, surgeons, that kind of thing, people who have had people in this kind of circumstance.
		I'm sure many times, either to them or to the nurses attending them, these people come back and they're very talkative about what they experienced.
		Now, is it medical training that causes them to somehow dismiss what they're hearing?
		Or are you aware that some of your colleagues have slowly become very interested in what they're hearing.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		That's a great question.
		You know, when I started my research 17 years ago, it was typical that if the person who had a near-death experience returned to consciousness, returned to life, and started sharing it with the medical staff, most of the time they would seem to be rejected, ignored, belittled even.
		And it was just frightening.
		Now, the good news, Art, is that this is a whole different era.
		In the modern era today, where near-death experience is so widely known, the healthcare team now generally has one or usually more people that are aware of near-death experiences, that know these happen, and it can embrace them for what they really are.
		And that was very real, lucid, organized experiences.
		So as a result of that, now more than ever, when people are sharing with their health care team, they're open, they're receptive, they're interested.
		They often have other people.
		And in fact, now more than ever, people that have nearly died will be asked very directly by their health team members, well, did you have an experience?
		Did anything happen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, really?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		You were gone from us.
		And so, yeah, actually seeking it out.
		And that's exciting because that was simply, I mean, how a generation changes things in terms of health care attitude toward near-death experiences.
		And it takes a lot of courage to share a near-death experience.
		I mean, think about it from their perspective.
		They nearly died.
		Can you imagine what's on their mind as they slowly come to recovery from nearly death?
		And yet to have the courage at that point in time, you know, where they may be suffering, miserable, hurting, and in pain, and yet to be so convinced that their experience was significant and important in spite of all that on their mind and all they may be suffering, to go out of their way to share that with the health care team is absolutely amazing and courageous.
		And now more than ever, we're getting more and more accounts like that.
		And that's really, I think, probably nothing changes the health care team's attitude more than actually hearing these accounts from the people that had them.
		They know darn good and well that they were unconscious or clinically dead.
		And yet here are these people describing what the health care team was doing, saying, thinking, even if they were down the hall and far out of the room, and it doesn't take too much of that to make believers out of an unbelieving health care team.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me try this question.
		It seems to me that physicians in their very, very long school and training and on-the-job training are almost trained away from God.
		Is that a fair or unfair crack?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think that medicine is a very powerful medical training, but it's not an education.
		You don't really have that breadth of understanding.
		You don't learn in medical school or in your training about very important, very real issues like God.
		I mean, you sort of come away thinking that all that we are, all that we think, all that we could ever be is defined by biological functions, physiological processes, chemical synapses and neurons of the brain.
		And so much of your training leaves me and certainly, I think, virtually every other physician sort of with that wow feeling.
		All we are is an amazing biological being.
		And yet, you don't really understand that you don't have that depth of training.
		You don't have that depth of openness in medical school training.
		That there is so much more to our life, so much more that we are than physical bodies.
		I mean, you're sitting here, all your training is focused on us being the physical.
		And yet, my near-death experience suggests with powerful evidence that we are far, far more than our physical beings, than our physical presence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's kind of an answer from you, but I'm not sure it's an overall answer.
		In other words, physicians are trained in hard science, biology, everything about the human body.
		And most scientists, and I have interviewed many, many scientists, Doctor, I would say are not believers in God, to be frank.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I think surveys have shown that too.
		And I think the, and that's interesting, but you are correct, and not only from your enormous, I can imagine how many enormous number of scientists you've interviewed, and certainly other surveys are consistent with that, that I think maybe people just sort of get so focused on the body and the physical self and how things can go wrong with the body and how they need to fix it that in some real way, in my opinion, they're overlooking the very big picture, and that is there is more.
		There's a bigger picture.
		There's that vast afterlife, and there is an organization and order to that afterlife.
		And I firmly believe as part of that afterlife, there is God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of surgeons come out of the operating room just having done something quite miraculous, I'm sure, with the feeling that God didn't do that.
		I did.
		You know, that person isn't.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we do have some physicians with a God complex.
		I've run across that more than a few times in my life.
		Oh, good grief.
		Yes.
		And I think there's a lot of truth to that.
		And my path has been very different.
		In doing radio chronicology, I believe God is the great healer on the side of physicians that will let God be that presence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that.
		Hold on, doctor.
		We'll be right back.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		Dr. Jeffrey Long.
unidentified		Did you see the lights as they fell all around you?
		Did you hear the music of Sarah laid from the stars?
		Did you believe in miracles?
		Midnight in the Desert is a wild trip across the day's divisor.
		Get your ticket to Riley By calling 1-952-PAL Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can any of you out there think of anything more important in terms of the question we're discussing tonight?
		I certainly cannot.
		Dr. Long, you quote nine lines of evidence from the book of evidence of the afterlife.
		Nine lines of evidence?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		That's correct so far.
		And the research continuing to show even more.
		So these are all, and you're right, these are lines of evidence from my research that all converge on showing the reality of near-death experiences and its consistent message of an afterlife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to rattle them off or just discuss some of them?
		I mean, can you sort of anything that claims to be evidence?
		I'll go right ahead.
unidentified		Yeah.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sure.
		Yeah, we'll rattle them off here if it's taking too long.
		Jump right in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long-form radio.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		Well, certainly crystal clear consciousness occurs during near-death experiences.
		Now, Art, if you consider what happens during a cardiac arrest when the heart stops, of course, immediately when the heart stops beating, blood stops flowing to the brain.
		10 to 20 seconds after the blood stops flowing to the brain, the electroencephalogram, or EEG, which is a measure of brain electrical activity, goes absolutely flat.
		It should be absolutely impossible to have a conscious experience.
		And yet, this is a time that people very often report out-of-body experiences, observing their own resuscitation at a time when we know during cardiac arrest and lack of blood flow to the brain, consciousness should be measurably impossible to happen.
		And we've talked a little bit about these out-of-body experiences where people observe their ongoing earthly events, and almost invariably, 97, 98% of the time, what they observe is incredibly accurate down to fine details, even if what they're observing is vastly far from their physical body and way beyond any possible physical sensory awareness.
		And that's absolutely beyond any possible medical explanation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me only stop you there long enough to ask you if I deal a lot, do a lot of shows about OBEs, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder if OBEs are pretty much the same when you have them in good health as when you have them near the end.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think they are.
		And I think that what makes them overlaps, what makes them similar is they're describing realistic observations that are medically inexplicable.
		I think that's the critical overlap, and that's why they're so important to consider both of them together.
		But no question about that.
		I think there's a lot of similarity there, and that's what makes actually the study of both near-death experiences and OBEs not associated with NDE so exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		So I'm sure we'll have more on that in future shows.
		That'll be exciting.
		Certainly, we haven't gotten into this, but people, the blind, including those born totally blind, have described highly visual near-death experiences.
		We have some case reports of those.
		For someone born totally blind, vision is unknown and unknowable and cannot be described in terms of the remaining four senses.
		I've tried that with someone born totally blind that had a visual NDE, and it's amazing.
		So that is certainly there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I don't mean to keep stopping you, but I'm curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If somebody born blind has an NDE, in what way do they describe their experience that differs from those who have sight, if at all?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
		Yeah, that's a great question.
		Those born totally blind don't know vision.
		So the one I'm thinking about that I interviewed is Vicki is her name.
		In her age 22, she had a severe auto accident.
		And she was being driven home from a singing engagement.
		She was a professional singer and had a bad auto accident by an intoxicated driver.
		But for the first time in her life that she saw herself, her consciousness was above her body in the emergency room.
		And she saw a body on the gurney down below.
		And it literally didn't register.
		She didn't understand who it was.
		And here's where it gets interesting.
		She didn't even know what she was seeing.
		Vision was so new to her until she correlated her sense of touch of her long hair and, interestingly, the pattern on a ring that her father had given her.
		Only when she correlated what she was seeing with vision for the first time in her life with those prior sensory awarenesses, then she realized that was her.
		What's also interesting is that vision was so unfamiliar to Vicki that she was terrified.
		This was outside of anything that she thought could ever happen to her, and it was very frightening.
		With Vicky, this is interesting.
		Many near-death experiencers describe vision that's 360-degree, and that's technically a two-dimensional term.
		It's actually spherical.
		They simultaneously see, register, interpret, and understand visual things above them, below them, right, left, forward, and backward, all simultaneously.
		Now, that was Vicki, the blind from birth ladies' experience.
		And in fact, even talking with her at length, she simply cannot understand why all the rest of us living our earthly life have, if you will, pie-shaped visions, why we don't see spherically.
		Because from her life experience, that's all there is.
		And she just, I mean, she literally, I think, thought I was kidding when I told her we had a narrow field of vision.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is absolutely astounding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, do other NDE experiencers with sight report the same 360-degree vista?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's uncommon, but I have dozens and dozens of them all together.
		That's not at all rare art.
		And again, it's that same kind of 360-degree vision.
		I mean, it's literally you have to put yourself in their shoes.
		It's like our regular pie-shaped fields.
		You can sort of assimilate everything going on in front of you because you can see it.
		But imagine these people With spherical vision.
		Just as you're understanding and aware of what's in front of you, they're understanding and aware of what's behind them, left, right, up, down, all crystal clear, perfect vision, and all understanding it just as we would vision that lies in front of us.
		And that's, of course, typically not during the out-of-body experience.
		This is much more commonly, in fact, almost uniformly observed when they're in these unearthly realms.
		But this is just one of the myriad of examples from near-death experiences.
		Sensory awareness is typically vastly different from what we know during our earthly life.
		And you can imagine, I mean, how often have you had a dream where you had spherical vision?
		Well, if you're like me, never.
		So this is just one more example of how people are having content during their near-death experiences that is absolutely, literally unimaginable to the near-death experiencer until they absolutely had the experience and experienced it firsthand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The story of Vicki, Vicki's story is absolutely astounding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder how you felt as you listened to that.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		I was just blown away.
		I mean, even after listening to an enormous number of near-death experiences, each new near-death experience I hear is, you know, always fascinating to me, interesting, and sort of like one more gemstone out of a collection of gemstones that we have in my research database.
		But especially with Vicki, I mean, just literally with her glasses on, and you could just tell, I mean, she had no vision.
		I mean, I'm a doctor, and I know blind, and she's, you know, of course, totally blind.
		And here she is describing things like so many other near-death experiencers, seeing deceased beings, light, you know, things that she had were outside of her experience.
		And it's always fascinating to talk to people in person, especially Vicki, and just hear that ongoing sense of awe and fascination and wonder in their voice as they recount their experience again.
		I mean, every instinct I have as a researcher is, wow, that's real off the scale when people share like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you, off the scale.
		Please continue.
		Anyway, there are nine of them, I guess.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Yep.
		We've got another one.
		We talked about this briefly before, is near-death experiences under general anesthesia.
		During general anesthesia, you're not just unconscious, you're comatose.
		I mean, you can literally perform huge bodily surgery without you feeling it and never having any sensory awareness at all.
		And yet, due to either complications of the surgery or the anesthesia or the pre-existing illness or injury that led to the surgery, I've got, I'll bet I have probably around 100 near-death experiences at this point that occurred under general anesthesia.
		And remarkably, they have the same elements, the same type of experience.
		And a key survey question that I ask in my survey is about their level of consciousness and alertness during the experience.
		Now, surely, Art, if that anesthesia modified their consciousness at all, you would expect them to have less consciousness and alertness than people that had near-death experiences caused by other things.
		And remarkably, in response to that survey question, the people that had near-death experiences under general anesthesia had exactly the same amount of consciousness and alertness during their experience as all other near-death experiencers.
		Even those powerful, powerful medications that do the safe and effective modern-day general anesthesia cannot modify that alertness, typically higher level of consciousness and alertness that near-death experiencers have.
		I mean, you could just stop right there and say, hey, skeptics, that pretty much eliminates any possibility that near-death experiences are due to brain function right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me again stop you.
		I'm so sorry about this, but I can't help myself.
		There are scientists who claim that with electrical stimulation of the right part of the brain, they can reproduce an NDE.
		You're aware of that claim, right?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the researcher, the main one that's known for that is a guy named Blanke from Europe.
		Blanke.
		I might address that.
		And certainly, frankly, Art, that's a little bit of an urban myth.
		I mean, these experiments were started with Wilder Penfield, a neurosurgeon of some decades ago.
		One thing that amazingly was reported relatively recently in a prominent journal was you actually stimulate the part of the brain while the people are awake.
		Now, that sounds like it would hurt.
		It doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Because the brain has no pain senses.
		And in fact, because the brain has no sensory pain fibers, you can do these types of things.
		And they actually can map the source in the brain where they're having seizures.
		So they can try to treat seizures in certain patients.
		So that's why they ate common medical indication for stimulating the brain electrically.
		But this isn't that rare of a procedure.
		And out of the vast number of people that have had this procedure, there was only one relatively recent case report where the person sort of had a sense that one of their legs rose up.
		I mean, it wasn't an out-of-body experience.
		Or consciousness didn't separate from the body.
		But geez art, you've talked to so many people that have had near-death experiences.
		How many people describe, yep, my torso and arm stayed in place in my head, but by golly, my leg raised up.
unidentified		Nobody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, me neither.
		I don't mean to be coming at you as a skeptic, doctor.
		I'm just trying to challenge you because I'm on your side all the way, but I'm trying to give you, throw you all the meat I can in terms of challenge.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		And actually, I greatly appreciate that because lots of your listeners are going to be asking the same questions because your studies have been widely, and I probably should have brought that up on my own because it's such a common concern that people have.
		But this is nothing.
		I mean, I got legs raising up.
		I mean, even an out-of-body experiences, as you know, that's extraordinarily rare to non-existent.
		So what they were observing was undoubtedly some type of illusory thing.
		It wasn't even a real out-of-body experience.
		And even Wilder Pinfield, with his extensive research, who did much more electrical stimulation of the brain decades ago, and I've looked over this and other researchers have, really never reproduced any Element of a near-death experience.
		So, an electrical stimulation of the brain reproducing an NDE is an urban myth, hands down, not even close.
		All right.
		But here's another one.
		We also talked briefly in passing about a life review.
		This is one of the more fascinating things to me during a near-death experience.
		In a life review, they may see a part or even all of their prior life.
		I mean, can you imagine they're unconscious for minutes, maybe even at Tops, an hour or two, and yet here they are reviewing years and typically decades of all of the events of their prior life.
		And in fact, some of these life reviews are so detailed that they're not only seeing how they interacted with prior people throughout all their prior life, but they actually literally become aware of, understand, and feel what the person that they interacted with felt like at the time they were interacting with them, for good or for ill, whether this was making them feel uncomfortable or angry or joyous.
		All that they ever did when they interacted with everybody, they can become aware of during these life reviews.
		Absolutely astounding and an excellent example of the enormously accelerated consciousness that occurs during near-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that a life review, Doctor, is absolutely terrifying.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Well, hey, I got some great news for you.
		And, you know, lots of other people feel that way.
		Here's the great news.
		I sort of felt that way, too.
		I remember years and years ago, I started reading about these, and I'm sure I'm not alone in saying, uh-oh, I've done some things I'm not proud of in my life.
		Well, here's the, yeah, but that's true for all of us, Art.
		The good news is that even though you're seeing all of your prior life, and often there's another being present in this unearthly realm where this is going on, the great news is there's essentially never a sense of judgment.
		In other words, you're seeing your life, your prior life, as if to learn, understand, and maybe live the rest of your life better when you return to your earthly life.
		But there's essentially never any external sense of judgment by other people around you.
		I cannot even recall a single near-death experience where they felt damned or condemned or felt that they were in big trouble for the rest of eternity because of what they saw in their life review.
		And in fact, on the positive side, the life review can be among the most powerfully positive, transformative aspects of the near-death experience.
		I mean, people that have a life review come back often as changed people.
		They're aware in a way that none of the rest of us could be how their actions affect other people for good or for ill.
		And you can imagine, if you've seen that, they're going to go out of their way more than ever for the rest of their life to treat other people lovingly, compassionately, because they've seen what their actions mean to them.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in some ways, that seems unfair, Doctor.
		Hold tight.
		In other words, they've got a chance to see what they did.
		And by the way, judgment of oneself is probably more terrifying than...
		Anyway, we'll be back.
unidentified		The Amalurines are the pale of the night When she loved and loved her It's through the sky like a bird's lion Who is being the lover Of the lives you've never seen A woman's wild call of love It's not radio, but it is what's next, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network, Midnight in the Desert, with Art Bell.
unidentified		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Played that to remind myself to ask about reincarnation, which I will, but not that I expect it's anything revealed by MDEs.
		It seems to me, Dr. Long, that judgment of oneself probably is going to be harsher than, I don't know, you'd expect from a fair and compassionate God.
		Judging yourself would be rough.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know what?
		Oh, yeah, it is.
		I mean, very often people are mortified by what they see during their life review.
		I mean, you know, I think so many of us, myself included, you live life and you don't even really stop to think about what you're doing or how you're interacting, how it affects other people.
		And when you see that vividly, no escaping it, all of it in its entirety comprehensively throughout your prior life, you know, it's certainly, and especially when you're in this unearthly realm or this overwhelming sense of peace and love, it's horrifying to see how your life so vividly deviated from that love and that peace and that serenity that's so typical in the afterlife.
		And it makes it perhaps all the more difficult to confront what you've done in all the years of your prior life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A lot of people believe in reincarnation.
		Is there probably nothing in NDEs to suggest either way with respect to reincarnation because it seems like it would be later in the full experience, so to speak.
		But I'll ask anyway.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know what?
		That's a real good question.
		And in my most recent survey, we start to delve into questions like that.
		Gosh, great minds think alike, if I might flatter myself, Art.
		But I actually ask directly, the survey question I ask of near-death experiencers is during your experience, did you encounter any specific information or awareness that you did or did not exist prior to this lifetime?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Reincarnation, in other words, an existential.
		Well, this allows narrative responses.
		So all responses basically are in the answering affirmative.
		Yes, they did encounter during their NDE awareness that existed prior to this lifetime in ARDA.
		A very surprising 27% answered yes.
		So only 7% uncertain.
		So there seems to be a fairly significant percentage of people that have near-death experiences that part of what they go through includes that awareness that we did exist, that this lifetime is not the sole totality of our existence, that we had that past and apparently would likely have all a future experience.
		So that's a very, and this is certainly nothing I expected when I set up the survey question.
		And the narrative responses corroborate this too.
		Certainly many people describe some remarkable past lives, remembrances.
		So interesting, near-death experience evidence now starting to point to some evidence that the reincarnation may be a reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remarkable.
		All right, I get messages as I do the program.
		Radar Man has sent me one and says: please ask the doctor the following: During NDEs in which the subject meets loved ones or people that they know, are there cases in which the people they met are currently alive or are they always deceased at the time?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Wow, great question, radar man.
		And I actually studied that formally as part of my research.
		The interesting thing is that any dream hallucination or any outside of near-death experiences, any altered consciousness involves encountering people that are alive at the time.
		I mean, if you have a dream or hallucination, you may recall, for example, the bank teller you did business that day with, the family member you said hi to before you headed to your bed and had your dream or whatever.
		But in near-death experiences, I've looked specifically in another major research project looked at the same, and both of us found an identical conclusion, and that is only 4% of people in near-death experiences are alive at the time of the experience.
		96% of the people are deceased, and that's just simply not something you'll find in any other altered human consciousness experience.
		And what's even more interesting is we have a number of these near-death experiences that have been reported where they may encounter people during their near-death experience they thought that they were alive.
		And they only, after they recover from their close brush with death, they realize that that person had died shortly before they had their near-death experience, and they didn't know it until they had their near-death experience and encountered the deceased.
		So, again, some remarkable evidence from that angle, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, again, through what we call the wormhole, Joe says, does he believe that one day we might develop the technology to travel at will in and out of the NDE realm?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's a great question, Joe.
		And, you know, certainly what they describe in the afterlife realm is so technologically, overwhelmingly advanced compared to what we have on Earth that it almost seems unimaginable.
		And yet I'm a great believer in the human spirit.
		I'm a great believer in all of us, you know, slowly humanity moving toward that technological increased awareness.
		And I think it's distinctly possible that we may someday converge through technology or through human understanding or growth in a variety of ways globally, that we may end up potentially being aware of and potentially even interacting in a way we cannot even conceive of now with this overwhelming, blissful, loving, peaceful, what we call afterlife, which is perhaps another perspective as simply a part of the greater reality that we're just not often aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever feel, Doctor, that this is an area that we ought not be tampering in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, this is an area reserved for, well, that great question of what comes next, and we have no business inquiring into or tampering in this area.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		That is an awesome question.
		I've spent a large amount of time considering my research and wondering if we are learning about something, becoming aware of something that we're not supposed to know about.
		I mean, clearly on earth, as you go through your earthly life like me, you don't become aware of an afterlife, of all that's there in the afterlife, your deceased loved ones, the beauty, the wonder, the peace, the love that seems to rule there.
		And I've reflected on that.
		Is this really the right thing for me to be doing to try to bridge that gap, to help people to understand that that's a reality and understand a little bit about the afterlife?
		And after a great deal of wrestling with that question, I've decided, yes, I think that really is the right thing.
		I think the afterlife is revealing itself in bits and pieces to us more dramatically in near-death experiences.
		I think more subtly during the life experiences that probably each and every one of us has.
		And I think that's just part of the way things are in our earthly life.
		I mean, it seems to be, if you will, a part of humankind's meaning and purpose is to continue to grow closer to that source, that after all, you're not worried, Dr. That when you get to the Pearly Gates, they're going to say, aha, Dr. Long, Long Floor, you want to punch sublevel 94.
		No, the universe is ruled by love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're okay.
		Stay right there.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Baby From the Kingdom of Nigh in the High Desert, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please ring Arts Bell at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Arts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's rock and roll.
		I'm going to begin to open the lines, everybody.
		So here it is in brief form.
		The public number, you're welcome to call.
		Area code 1 and then area code 952-225-5278.
		In addition, we have the ability for you to come on with Skype.
		And the way that works is if you've got a smartphone of some sort, you put Skype on your phone.
		Then when you call, you can sound like a million dollars.
		Actually, you can sound like you're right here in the studio.
		So by all means download Skype onto your smartphone and then add us.
		That's all you have to do.
		We don't have to respond in any way.
		All you have to do is add us.
		That means the following.
		You go to a little plus sign on Skype as in add a contact.
		And you put in, if you're in North America, MITD51, as in Midnight in the Desert, 51.
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		America and Canada.
		Anywhere else in the world, you're also welcome to join us via Skype.
		Take that same smartphone we just talked about and enter MITD55.
		That's worldwide.
		M-I-T-D5-5.
		And then we'll appear in your contact list.
		You can just punch it up and away you go.
		Once again, Dr. Long, welcome back.
		And yet another question from Mark through the wormhole to settle a debate.
		Can the chemical DMT account for an NDE and what is DMT?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, DMT is a psychoactive drug, dimethyl, and then it gets into polysyllabic wording after that.
		But DMT has been studied as a leucinogen.
		Some researchers are thinking that its use under controlled clinical circumstances may reproduce some elements of near-death experiences.
		I've actually been in communication with some researchers that have used that formally in investigation studies.
		Certainly it can induce a sense of great peaceful feeling, can sort of create a sense of a mystical feeling, but does DMT reproduce near-death experiences?
		Absolutely not.
		I have yet to encounter a DMT experience that significantly reproduced any typical near-death experience.
		So while I think it's intriguing, there doesn't seem to be much overlap, and that's actually true of other psychoactive, or if you will, brain-acting chemicals.
		They can certainly create some superficialities that somewhat resemble a near-death experience, but no chemical can reproducibly cause anything like a near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Unless it causes clinical death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any reports, and this is the big one, of negative NDEs?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we sure do.
		And in the scholarly literature, they're referred to as frightening because certainly that's the dominant emotion, obviously, in these types of experiences.
		And I've actually investigated that myself.
		Out of the 4,000 near-death experiences I have, certainly there's a small percentage where there's a portion, much less, usually not all of the near-death experience, but a portion of it where the dominant emotion was frightened.
		That can be due to a wide variety of things, the unfamiliarity of the experience, etc.
		I think what most people are thinking about when they think about a negative or frightening experiences are experiences that are objectively frightening.
		In other words, they're literally in a hellish realm.
		Hellish experiences are, of course, objectively frightening.
		And I only have about, of all the 4,000 near-death experiences I had, we only have about 1% that were truly hellish in part or in all of the experience.
		And in looking in that group of experiences, it's very interesting.
		You know, certainly some of the most frightening stuff art that I've ever read in my life.
		I mean, you can read fictional, frightening things, go to frightening movies, but some of what is described in these hellish NDEs is literally off the scale in terms of being spooky.
		Now, the important thing I think to take home with this is that even if people have such a horrific experience, that doesn't necessarily lead to them coming back believing they're condemned or they've been especially bad people.
		Very often people that have these types of experiences come back and say, ultimately, often months to years later after they've had a chance to learn from it, but many of these people, if not most, come back and say, you know, I needed an experience like that to learn some things, to let go of that anger, guilt, resentments, and really live the rest of my life with that much less of an issue than it was before the experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, it doesn't seem fair, Doctor.
		It doesn't seem fair.
		In other words, some small portion of people get this experience and get to reshape their life and then presumably get a better outcome next time they exit.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, don't forget these types of dramatic life changes are, and that's a good point, but these kind of dramatic life changes and sort of a renewed desire to continue living your life in love and compassion and peacefully is very commonly observed in people that have the typical pleasant blissful experiences.
		So there's a real overlap in what we call the after effects of near-death experience for those that have had the frightening, hellish experiences and those that have had the blissful experiences.
		It's like all roads lead to Rome.
		All of these paths for the unique individuals that they are seem to be important to them for that point in time in their life to help point them the proper way, the proper path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I have more questions, but I have hogged you and a lot of people want to talk to you.
		So if you wouldn't mind, we're going to take some calls.
		And here we go.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Let's dive right in, Art.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we go.
		The water in Toronto, Canada.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Bernard here.
		Hi, Dr. Long.
		I have a very unusual story that took place about 12 years ago.
		I was extremely sick.
		I had mononucleosis, flu, pneumonia.
		And this was during the SARS crisis in the hospital.
		So my family doctor was afraid to have me admitted lest I get SARS and die.
		So she gave me medication, told me to get plenty of bedrest.
		I'd never felt sicker in my life before or since.
		And it was February.
		It was a darkened room.
		And I thought I was going to die.
		And I thought, where would I want to be right now?
		So I visualized the place I know very, very well, my aunt's living room in Hawaii, just on the big island by the sea.
		And I just let myself start to go towards that image of myself lying on her living room floor beside a lanai where I could, you know, where I did many times before.
		At one point, I could start smelling the ocean.
		I could hear birds.
		I could hear waves.
		And I could feel the ocean breeze.
		The place faces due west, so I could feel the breeze.
		And I felt myself, I can't put it into words, but I felt myself kind of sliding over there.
		And it became more real.
		And where I was, in bed, sick, was less real.
		Wow.
		And at one point I thought, well, this must be what it's like to die.
		This is, you know, I heard different stories, different renditions of it.
		And I thought, well, maybe for me, this is what happens.
		Sort of the angel of death or the angel of mercy gives you one last nice thing you can do and lets you sort of have a little fantasy and then you slip off.
		And I was pretty convinced that if I'd let go completely, I would have gone somewhere.
		And it wasn't awful.
		It was really pleasant.
		I love Hawaii.
		It's my favorite place in the world.
		And I got scared.
		And I think I let go pretty much about until maybe 10, 15 percent of me was still hanging on.
		And I thought, okay, maybe this is a trick of the devil.
		Maybe something, you know, something's going on here.
		I'm going to die.
		My wife's going to be upset.
		And I started to move around and wake up, open my eyes and look around, took some breaths, flipped the light on in the room, and I just lay there and thought about the experience.
		Ten minutes later, my aunt, who by the way, Art introduced me to your show in the mid-90s, she's a very open-minded person, she called 10 minutes later.
		My wife came running up the stairs.
		It's your aunt Janet.
		Bernard, did you just try to materialize yourself on my living room floor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		And I said, I wasn't trying to.
		I was just thinking that's where I really wanted to be right at that moment.
		And she said, well, I was washing the dishes.
		It's an open concept room.
		And she was on the other side of the house, and she could see lights twinkling on the floor, right where I imagined myself being.
		And she said, it looked something like the twinkly little lights you'd see in a Star Trek transporter, along with little blue flashing lights.
		And she said, I saw you materializing.
		And I just, my mouth was open.
		I thought, what's going to happen?
		I thought you were really going to do it.
		And then all of a sudden, boom, you faded out.
		And I waited for another five or six, ten minutes.
		And I decided to call you and see if I was hallucinating or if you really did it yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's some story, Caller.
unidentified		That's, yeah, that's some experience.
		And it's kind of been haunting me.
		So I don't know what that was.
		Was that a near-death experience?
		Was it translocation?
		Was it an out-of-body experience?
		I've asked a few people.
		I haven't told many people the story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if it's really easy to put a name to it, but, Doctor, what do you think?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's probably in the realm of, you know, it doesn't sound like an imminent loss of consciousness or something like that.
		So I put that more into an out-of-body experience.
		But that's an extremely rare and extremely important experience you're describing there.
		I mean, that was verifiable both in terms of the time it occurred and the location.
		And that's an extremely important experience.
		I mean, good gosh, how evidential could you get for the reality of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's extraordinary.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Extraordinary.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		It just shows how, you know, wow.
		So thanks for sharing that, Bernard.
		That's something that I hope you share widely because I think more people need to hear about that.
		That's one of the more remote.
		I've studied literally thousands of out-of-body experiences over the years, and that's one of the more remarkable I've heard.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Katerina, hello.
		You're on the air with Dr. Long.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Can you hear me very well?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get good and close to the microphone on your computer.
unidentified		All right.
		Let me turn the volume up as well.
		Can you hear me better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		I moved to Perump several years ago from Kentucky where I had a near-death experience at age 21 from taking birth control pills.
		I was adopted, and I didn't know that the family had a history of brain aneurysms that they died from.
		So when I was taking these birth control pills, I developed severe headaches.
		And then to make a long story short, I died and was dead for about 10 minutes.
		And while I was dead, I saw several things and asked to see several things in that state of being.
		One thing that I experienced, and I asked to understand this, was when the pen dot of light came down for me that was calling me to go towards it,
		I noticed that there was shadows being cast upon what I can only describe as pods or holding units for many screaming, moaning entities that were,
		I guess, it wasn't hell, but as I've talked to many ministers and rabbis and priests, they more or less confirmed that it would be what would be called purgatory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say it didn't sound like heaven.
unidentified		Yeah, and I asked to experience why are they screaming?
		So I was taken to one of these little pods, as I called it, and placed inside of it.
		And as soon as I was placed inside, there was no sound, there was no voices, there was nothing.
		Everything was black, everything was silent.
		And after a few seconds, I could understand why they were screaming.
		So I asked, I said, dear father, if it's meant for me to stay here, you know, there's not anything I can do about it, but I would much rather be out in, you know, in heaven.
		So the pod at that time was opened up, and I saw the pin dot of light.
		Well, I could clearly hear the people that were in the other, or their spirits that was in the other pods screaming and crying for help.
		And so I was then heading towards the light.
		And I saw many things.
		While I was on my way, I reached a golden double gate that had these beams.
		I can only describe as it had the head of a lion, the torso of a man, and the lower part looked more like a lion because it had kind of a lion's tail or a bull's tail.
		It had the tip of it, was a fur or whatever.
		And they went to the center of the double doors and opened them.
		And I remember that the being that was with me, my spirit guide, whatever you want to call him, and I walked through this gate.
		And I remember we were so small.
		We were about the size of an ant.
		But as soon as we walked through the gates, I remember seeing this beautiful garden and this city on the hill.
		And I know that sounds like former President Reagan, but there really was a city on the hill where all this light was coming from.
		And I told my guide, I want to go there.
		So we crossed over this crystal lake.
		And as we were crossing over, I looked down and I noticed that I didn't have a body.
		And I distinctly remember laughing and saying, oh, I must be dead.
		I don't have a body.
		And we continued on up to the hill and went through another gate.
		And I remember the angels singing and hearing people talking.
		And I still wanted to go to the source of the light.
		To me, that was God.
		I was always raised in the church, and that was my reference for who the light was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And something pulled you back?
unidentified		No, no.
		I went all the way to where the light came from behind this curtain that was gently blowing.
		And I said, I don't want to stay here.
		And I was told it was not my time, that I had a purpose here on earth.
		The next thing I remember is I was taken to a library facility where there was a projector showing me these slides or videos of things to happen in my future.
		I never had a past life review.
		I was only shown my future.
		And everything I was shown, which started out very slowly and increased to a blur, everything they showed me came to pass.
		I have no explanation except what a wonderful blessing it has been to my life since I've come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand completely, and I really thank you for that story.
unidentified		Oh, you're welcome.
		And I have my book on Amazon.
		It's Yes, Virginia, There Is a Heaven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you wrote a book, okay.
		Excellent.
		All right.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
		Anniversary.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Take care.
		Another really, really remarkable story, Doctor.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it really is.
		Very typical that they're told it's not your time, often by a spiritual being there, and that there is purpose of their earthly life.
		I hear that over and over in near-death experience accounts, and I think that's a hugely important message to all of us.
		And by the way, the descriptions there were scenes from the future.
		I just pulled up our most recent survey data.
		It's unusual but not rare.
		In my most recent survey, I asked directly, did scenes from the future come to you?
		And 5.7% of people that had a near-death experience said they saw scenes from the world's future, and another 9% said scenes from my personal future.
		So again, unusual but not rare and remarkable to think that they may have evidential observations of that which may come to pass on this earth.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's just a wow.
		I don't know what else to say.
		Both those stories that we got, just amazing, incredible stuff.
		I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		The Desert
		There's no McKay when call screening,
		no waiting on hold, no requirement to kiss Art's ring, just good talk.
		Join Art by calling 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALLART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Dr. Jeffrey Long.
		We're discussing NDE's near-death experiences.
		And if it gets more interesting than this, I'm not really sure how that happens.
		Doctor, welcome back.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, welcome back to this fascinating show, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is a fascinating show.
		Okay, so here's a question with a little humor, maybe, or maybe it's not humor at all, from Tracy Through the Wormhole.
		Hi, Art.
		I've always wondered if people die drunk or high, do they stay that way in the hereafter?
		I've always had a fear of dying drunk.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a good one.
		Well, Tracy, that's interesting.
		We have a number of near-death, I mean, a fairly large number of near-death experiences where the life-threatening event was alcohol overdose, intoxication, if you will, or illicit drug overdose or intoxication, especially the most lethal ones are the narcotic-type drugs where an overdose can suppress and even stop respiration or your breathing, if you will, and cause a life-threatening event, a near-death experience.
		In essentially every near-death experience that I can call that occurred, as a result of such circumstances, the person describing what happened in the NDE makes a note that they were no longer drunk.
		They were no longer impaired.
		They could think clearly, crystal clearly, even more clearly than they could typically in their earthly, everyday life.
		So it seems that the consciousness that survives bodily death, again, isn't modified by the anesthesias that you might be on, the drugs that you've taken even illicitly.
		The consciousness seems to be crystal clear, lucid, and unmodified by all those other things that we normally think would affect brain function.
		Good news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go outside the country somewhere.
		Carl, I believe it is.
		Carl?
unidentified		Hi, yes.
unidentified		This is Carl from South Africa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		I have a question for Dr. Long.
		Yes.
		Doctor, in your studies, have you ever come across the concept of soul recycling?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reincarnation.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that Carl, is that like reincarnation?
		In other words, someone dies, the soul leaves their physical body, and then that same personality, that same soul, if you will, that represents or that was that person enters another physical body later on in like reincarnation.
		Is that what you're asking?
unidentified		That's what I'm asking, but it's with a little twist at the end where there's a third party that's in control of the whole process, where they are in control of the recycling, where they actually wipe the memory off the soul, and then after wiping the memory, put them back into whichever body they choose to.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's interesting because we do have some near-death experiencers that share their existence in an afterlife prior to being born, prior to living in our earthly life.
		And all of these descriptions describe that it's a voluntary process.
		In other words, if you will, premortal existence before birth, very often they'll describe a description of being born to particular parents in particular circumstances, often with the goal that this seems to be the life in which they can best learn their lessons, their lessons that they need to learn through their earthly life.
		So I see no evidence whatsoever that there's a third party who's sort of controlling this or affecting people's soul going into that.
		There's one thing that seems to be an overwhelmingly common theme in my near-death experience research.
		It's a sense in the afterlife that we have free choice, free will.
		In other words, we seem to be incredibly free to choose to be what we will be, what we do, and that includes what, if you will, the earthly life we incarnate into.
unidentified		All right.
		Thank you.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Thank you very much.
		Thank you.
		And take care.
		To the phone.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		It's Tom from Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Dr. Long.
		Hey, how are you doing, Dr. Long?
		Actually, my question was kind of answered maybe a little bit earlier with the gentleman who started to appear to his aunt.
		I was going to ask how often is it counted that, you know, living people actually during the time of the NDE, living people encounter that relative appearing to them as a spirit.
		But the other question I have is...
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's an interesting thing.
		One thing that makes me think about this are what's called shared near-death experiences, and that's analogous to this, and I think an important point to make here.
		I have a series, I'm up to 14 now, where there were two or more people that had simultaneous life-threatening events.
		And remarkably, these two individuals are aware of each other, interact with each other.
		Both of them seem to be having a near-death experience.
		For example, one of the very first of the experiences that are shared near-death experiences I ever got was a guy and his fiancée involved in a very bad car wreck.
		And they went up in an out-of-body experience hand in hand.
		And they went up and met some spiritual beings who they felt great love and compassion, but they told the two of them that the gentleman was going to return to earthly life.
		He wasn't really fully dead, but his fiancée had died and would not be able to return to earthly life.
		And these spiritual beings reached out and separated the handhold that they had and led his fiancée down toward the light.
		And then this guy, I mean, the guy vividly describes waking up in the car, returning to consciousness, and even with his eyes closed, even with not being aware of anything else going on, he knew immediately that his fiancée right beside him was dead because he had experienced that.
		That's a shared near-death experience.
		Yeah, and that's, we've got, like I say, a series of 14 of them, astounding things like that, and often shared near-death experiences with people that they didn't even know were having a life-threatening event at the time they did.
		And so this is certainly a part of the evidence of the reality of near-death experience.
		And I think that's analogous to some of the other things we've been talking about tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Winnipeg, Manitoba, I believe.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		This is Greg.
		How are you guys tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Excellent.
		Soup?
		Okay, I had an experience a long time ago after a relationship I had with a female that I was with for a long time, and I was kind of in a depressed state.
		And this isn't the NDE out-of-body experience that I had, but it ties into what that other caller from Hawaii said about what his aunt had said about seeing him and it was very similar to what I had seen so I'm just going to collaborate that and then the other thing was collaborating with the blind patient that you had had said I had exactly the same experience so anyways I felt I was I was laying in bed and
		I was upset, and all of a sudden, I felt the voice of God speak to me, and it was odd, and I don't know exactly how to explain it, but I remember the voice, and it said, wait, get up from your bed, move to the door, and you're going to see an angel.
		And I seen what the guy was describing, and I fell backwards, just completely fell backwards, but it felt like I fell into pillows, or air or clouds or something, but I didn't get knocked out.
		It just put me into a shock state.
		Okay, so that was the first thing that had happened that's similar to what that guy said.
		It was kind of odd.
		But anyways, the second time was later on in a different part of life for me.
		I was in a stage where I was DJing in the racing culture, and me and a friend had experimented just at a time with nitrous oxide and ketamine at the same time, and I was on more than...
		I've had many NDEs in my life, and I'm not going to go into any of them, because there's so many, it's overwhelming, but this one was the one that I had to call in because of that blind caller that you said, or that blind patient that you called in.
		The experience was I took more than 100, probably about 150 milligrams of ketamine, and a whole lot of nitrous.
		I'm not even sure how much.
		And me and my friend, we both did that, and while I did that, I did it to the drop of the bass line on some headphones that I had on.
		I skyrocketed out of, like, totally out of existence, in a sense.
		Well, conscious existence, like we experience every day on Earth.
		And then, basically, what happened is I seen the valley and the shadow of death, and it was a totally tranquil place.
		And then, all of a sudden, that was a split second.
		There was no white light.
		I entered this realm, like, exactly like the experience that the woman had that wasn't like a pie-shaped, you know, tunnel vision.
		Like, we all go through every day in our normal, everyday life.
		And it was like you had a million eyes all around your head, and you could see, like, in every single direction.
		And I was trying to turn and look around, and I could see.
		It was like a screensaver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you had 360-degree vision, you shouldn't have to turn to see anything.
unidentified		No.
		But then, at the very moment where I realized where I was, I heard the same voice of what I choose to believe now, that is, the voice of God, say to me that, he said, because you've mixed this music with these molecules in exactly the same sequence, you are a professional DJ.
		What he should have said is, don't do drugs.
		Oh, my goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go to Skype.
		Celestial, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art Roswell.
		This is Celestial from Montana.
		So I was a little choking for a second about the NDE shared, and I'll get to it regarding my brother in a moment.
		I'll talk about mine in a second.
		So when I was 14, I'm 41 now, I had a tumor in the palm of my left hand.
		They didn't know if it was cancerous or not, and they had let it go on for a couple years.
		But it started to attach itself to the nerve units in my hand, so they wanted to do surgery on it to remove it because it was giving me pain.
		So I went under surgery, and I remember going to the doctors, going under surgery, everything else.
		The last thing I remember before I went under anesthesia was they told me to count backwards from 100, and I hit 99.
		And the next thing I remember was I was in white.
		Everything was white.
		It was bright.
		And I saw my grandfather, which was completely bizarre to me because he had died two years before that.
		And I was freaked out because I didn't know.
		I actually was sitting there thinking, am I alive?
		Am I dead?
		What is going on?
		Why am I seeing my grandpa?
		And he looked very concerned.
		Like he came running up to me in this bright white light.
		And the next thing is right behind him, what looked like Jesus in the typical form of Jesus came running up.
		And they both grabbed me around my shoulders, and they looked freaked out.
		And I'm like, oh, my gosh, grandpa, I'm so happy to see you.
		And they're like, you're not supposed to be here.
		You're not supposed to be here.
		You need to go.
		And I was like, no, no, no, don't go.
		I miss you.
		I miss our adventures.
		And they grabbed me, and they smiled, and they turned me around, and they spun me, and they shoved me really hard into even a brighter light.
		And I'm like, why are you making me go?
		And they shoved me so hard, and I stumbled forward.
		And the brighter white light turned into the clock on the wall across from my bed in my recovery room.
		room and I was like what and I and I still like what came into focus is the clock and what I could see out of the periphery of vision on my right side was a nurse but I couldn't turn my head I couldn't get my whole body to respond and I could see her looking really concerned next to my head and I'm like why is this chick talking I don't know what she's talking about and I sort of drifted in and out and Next thing I know, she's on the other side of me.
		And then she came around the other side, and I'm like, why can I see her mouth moving?
		But I don't know what she's saying.
		And finally, I could hear what she's talking about.
		And apparently, I had flat land on the table.
		My surgery was supposed to be 45 minutes.
		And I was out for two and a half hours.
		And I flat went, and they brought me back.
		And when they brought me back, I was conscious, but I was staring, but not responding to the clock on the wall for 45 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, we're going to have to hold it there because we've got a break.
		Doctor, just amazing, amazing, amazing stories, one after another, after another.
		And with your collection, I guess you're used to that.
		This is Midnight in the Desert by Mark Bell.
		Rocking on through the night.
unidentified		It was...
		...into the room.
		It wasn't to do anything.
		...into the room.
		I was captured by a star, but I could not.
		No call screening.
		No waiting on hold.
		No requirement to kiss Art's ring.
		Just good talk.
		Join Art by calling 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALLARTS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		Here's Rhonda in Arizona.
		Even though we've covered this, it's worth asking.
		Art, I've been an ER nurse for 15 years.
		And I want to say that I feel that times have changed in that many people in the medical field now do talk about NDEs.
		Doctor, do you find this to be the case in your research?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no question about it.
		I agree with Rhonda.
		17 years ago when I started my NDE website, I literally did not include my name on it.
		I didn't want any of my medical colleagues to find me by an internet search.
		But I mean, it was that secret.
		I literally operated in secret for years because of my concern about people having negative judgments about what I was doing.
		Oh, that was long ago and far away.
		Now I talk openly with my colleagues.
		They're fascinated.
		Most doctors I talk to and share the evidence that I've shared on this show get it.
		They understand, especially physicians, I think, grasp that there's no way medicine can explain these remarkable lines of evidence we've discussed on the show.
		There's nothing medically that can explain a near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understood.
		With NDEs, people often have a choice to stay or come back to Earth, I guess.
		And if it is as good appealing, as they say, then why is it people choose to return?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		And that's a great question.
		The significant majority of people, and it's often near the end of their near-death experience, often in these unearthly, beautiful, what's often called heavenly realms, people don't want to go back to their earthly life.
		You know, think about that.
		This is their earthly life that is so familiar to them that they've lived years, typically decades, and yet here they are in this unearthly realm of beauty, love.
		They literally feel that the afterlife realm is their real home, that that's where they belong, and they want to stay there.
		So no matter what family they have, their familial connections, loving connections with people on earth, the great majority of people that have that choice, that are given that choice, at least initially, don't want to go back to their earthly life.
		They want to stay there in that unearthly, beautiful realm.
		Ultimately, they do generally choose to return to their earthly life, but there's often some discussion.
		It may take some persuasion.
		In fact, sometimes we have a small series of near-death experiences where these spiritual beings that are typically with them at this time will show them basically as if to say, okay, suppose you do stay here.
		Suppose you do not return to your earthly life.
		Here's what happens next.
		And they'll be shown their own funeral.
		And it is gripping the reality that we see when they're shown.
		And we talked about how they can sometimes be aware of future events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what they would see if they choose not to return to their earthly life.
		And it just gives me chills, Ark, to read some of these accounts.
		For example, one person vividly described their own funeral, their friends, family, loved ones, enormously grieving and in tears.
		And yet here were a couple of the two-year-old relatives that he had, a couple of them laughing and kind of giggling because they didn't understand it was a funeral.
		They didn't understand that somebody died.
		How's that for a gripping reality?
		And that's what people describe over and over.
		And typically when people see their own funeral and its impact on the people they love, they'll grudgingly choose to return to life and fight to recover from what nearly killed them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Simon, again on the computer through the wormhole, asks, Art, please ask the doctor about the guy you know.
		He means John Lear, who has haunted me for years and years and years.
		John Lear came on the program and said, Art, I've got an insight, and that is if you die, if you have an NDE, don't go to the light.
		It's a trick.
		Go to the darkness.
		And after, you know, the talk show curse goes on John for saying that to me because I've never been able to get it out of my head.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I'll be glad to address that, Art.
		After studying over 4,000 near-death experiences, I find absolutely nothing that suggests that that's a reality.
		If you're having a near-death experience, when the light's encountered, it's typically not just an ordinary earthly light.
		You feel drawn to it, attracted.
		You have a sense of that overwhelming love, peace, and compassion.
		I mean, it literally seems a part of you.
		It seems like where you came from before your earthly life and where you're delighted to return to when your earthly life ends.
		But there is not a shred of evidence that says you should go to the darkness.
		I don't think people need to live in Fear about making a wrong decision.
		The universe is overwhelmingly ruled by love and peace.
		And I think we all, in the afterlife, will have a choice.
		We can make amends.
		We can choose to make a right decision.
		And I'd have to disagree with John Lear.
		There's nothing in my research, nor in any research with any other near-death experience researcher I'm aware of that suggests we need to have that concern about not going to the light and going to the darkness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see if it doesn't haunt you.
		It does me.
		Laneyville, Texas, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Dr. Long.
		You have posted one of our, well, actually in the beginning, when you were first posting stories up on your website, I believe you posted my son's story up way back in the very beginning.
		And it was listed as, I believe, Emily's son.
		He had gotten run over when he was six years old.
		And you ran it on your website, and it was really a nice thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he have an end?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Did he appreciate you?
unidentified		Yes, he did.
		He was out for quite a long time, and I gave him up as dead.
		And I screamed.
		I laid him down on the ground and just screamed with every bit of my soul.
		And he jolted and came back to life.
		And then six weeks later, he was only six years old.
		He told me the whole story of when he was out and how I was giving him mouth to mouth and the tractor that came by and the guy that stopped.
		And, you know, the whole story.
		And he was just six years old.
		He said, Mama, I was up above you looking down at you giving me mouth to mouth.
		And so, you know, it changed our life because I realized, and he realized, too, that there's something going on.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
		Yeah, it sounds like he was observing, you know, some other vehicles around there and you doing mouth-to-mouth things he couldn't have known unless he was actually above you seeing that and seeing accurately.
		So all the hallmarks of a near-death experience.
		And certainly changing your life is very common.
		I mean, once you know that consciousness can be apart from your body, you know that we're much, much more than just our physical earthly manifestations.
		You really causes one to think and to learn and to grow.
		And I'm not surprised to change both of your lives.
		Thanks for sharing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I don't have a lot of time, but Denver, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Art.
unidentified		It's Matt, your undefeated atheist.
		I'm actually enjoying the show.
		I like that you've been bringing on new people I actually haven't heard, so it's refreshing.
		Even if they have a view I don't necessarily have, I still find it kind of interesting to hear something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be most of them, Matt.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, probably.
		But, you know, hey, I'm a reasonable guy.
		I might jump over, you know, to a couple of their theories if they believe in it enough.
		What I wanted to call the doctor about was, well, he had spoken a little bit about DMT.
		And, you know, I'd done my personal research in that field with some friends over the years.
		But that's another story for another day, Art.
		But no, I think Dr. Rick Strassman had done quite a large study.
		They even did that DMT movie, the spiritual molecule, I think it was called.
		And they talked about the high and large quantities of DMT released from the pineal gland right before a very traumatic experience.
		And they believed that, you know, maybe death might be that.
		And so maybe it might be your brain actually trying to calm you down.
		And what wouldn't be more calm than seeing like, you know, memories of loved ones, things like that, than going through the pain of, you know, drowning or bleeding to death.
		And I also found it interesting that the UCLA Brain Injury Research Center had talked about how the brain actually goes into survival mode.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And they talk about how the pons and the medulla actually are the only ones that are running, and the rest of the higher parts of the brain actually shut down.
unidentified		And then they say if the vision center of your brain, the optical cortex, suddenly is activated, that might actually explain the bright light effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Matt, I'm very short on time, but I do want to ask you this.
		If you had an NDE Matt and all you heard was a big, deep voice saying, don't do drugs.
		And then you came back.
		What would you conclude from that?
unidentified		I would say one of my friends must have been standing over me and talking into my ear when I was passed out, probably from doing drugs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody, hold on.
		We're at a break point.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		I stopped to know a man along the way, hoping to find some forgotten words for ancient man.
		Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Long, if NDEs are proof of an afterlife, which I guess you believe they are, correct?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Well, I say the evidence is certainly proof to me.
		I would represent other people that don't have the personal experience of reviewing 4,000 near-death experiences.
		I'd say, at a minimum, it's very powerful evidence of life after death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then what are the majority of the lack of NDEs under similar circumstances proof of?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		I think it's, well, that's a real interesting question.
		And here's a direct answer for that.
		There's exactly out of 4,000 near-death experiences, one near-death experience where they were in an unearthly, beautiful, overwhelmingly peaceful, loving environment, typically called heavenly realms.
		And there was a near-death experiencer in this overwhelmingly joyous environment, and they were interacting with God and asked God very directly, why me?
		Why was I allowed to have this?
		And the answer was, feeling overwhelming sense of love and peace in this unearthly realm.
		And the answer she got was, love falls on everyone equally.
		This is what you needed to live your life.
		And so that's, and talking with other near-death experiences recently, it was at our annual, yeah, and that's unearthly wisdom art.
		I couldn't have thought of that.
		And neither could any of the NDE researchers that I talked with.
		I brought that to the attention of others, and they went, well, yeah, that kind of resonates.
		And it seems at this point that that's our best model for why some near-death experiences happen to some and not others.
		It seems to be something that is an experience that is created for those that particularly need that experience at that time in their life to go on living.
		And apparently the majority of people, for reasons we can't fathom, wouldn't benefit from that experience, at least at that time in their life, during an NDE.
		And I'm not the only NDE researcher that feels that's the most likely hypothesis at this point that we have going for why some people have NDEs and some don't when they nearly die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good answer.
		All right.
		Joe on Skype, you're on the air with Dr. Longhei.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hey, Art.
		Good to have you back.
		Thank you.
		I just want to share an experience I had when I was five years old.
		I was having a tonsillectivy.
		And during the operation, I had the experience of looking up from my throat, like I was inside my throat, looking up.
		And I thought it was a pair of spectacles, a pair of glasses right at my throat.
		And age five, flash forward to age 18, I'm in medical assistant school.
		And the first time I was handed a pair of forceps, needle forceps, I was like, bingo, snap, that's what I saw.
		And I don't know that anything happened during the surgery, that it was such a strange experience.
		I really felt like I was inside looking at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let me make really sure that I get this because it's pretty incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me that you were looking from inside your throat out of your own mouth and saw a doctor at five years of age wearing spectacles.
unidentified		No, no, I just saw what in my mind was spectacles, but later when I saw a pair of forceps with the handles, the round handles on the forceps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's so incredible.
unidentified		And I thought that was pretty bloody amazing, and it stuck with me, and I'm 58 now.
		And I'm so happy to speak with you, and you have made my nights complete.
		I don't sleep on weekends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't sleep on weekends?
unidentified		Yes, because, you know, your voice is just so calming.
		And you are so, what I am so impressed always, I must say this, you are so wonderful with the callers.
		Such a variety of people that call you.
		You allow people to speak.
		And you don't cut them off.
		You don't, you know, you don't just, you know, disparage them or make disparaging comments or bully them.
		You know, I'm very impressed.
		I'm an Army veteran.
		I was a WAC from 76 to 80.
		And I just, I thank you for your service.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I'm just saying you were Air Force, correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		And, well, I just wanted to share that.
unidentified		And thank you so much for letting me share.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		That's pretty cool.
		That's quite a cool story, actually.
		Doctor?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's very impressive.
		And sometimes, you know, you can imagine a five-year-old, they've never seen the curved handles on forceps.
		How would she know about that?
		They don't show you that before they start the surgery.
		When people have out-of-body experiences, as we've said, generally their consciousness is above their body.
		Rarely, it's beside their body or even below their body.
		And this may be one rare example of an out-of-body experience with the point of conscious perception actually within the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was almost an inside the body.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Right under anesthesia, amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, amazing.
		El Paso, Texas, I think.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello, doctor.
		I know you don't have a lot of time, so I'll be quick.
		I wanted to get the doctor's opinion on whether my experience was a genuine near-death experience.
		I was feeling very, very sick at the time.
		I felt like I was dying.
		It turns out all I had was bronchitis.
		Anyway, in the hospital, as I lay there, I felt like I was dying.
		And I called out to a friend of mine who had recently passed away.
		And I saw him.
		And he told me, basically, it's not your time yet.
		If you do want to come with me, let's go.
		If you don't, I'll stay with you and be your guardian angel throughout your life.
		And I wanted the doctor's opinion as to if that was a genuine experience or not.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
		I mean, the very classic thing that occurs in near-death experience statement is not your time.
		In other words, not time to leave your earthly life.
		And having a choice, again, common in near-death experience is a choice to leave your earthly life and go to that blissful unearthly life.
		So that is so typical that it's somewhat irrelevant if you had a life-threatening, a serious life-threatening event at that time.
		That's a good example of an experience while even if it's not a near-death experience, it's still obviously profoundly meaningful and significant.
		So that would be what we call an NDE-like experience, and it's certainly in the same spectrum of near-death experiences and certainly has that same degree of reality, significance, and meaning.
		So I certainly would mark that up as for real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'm still stuck on a lady who was looking through her own mouth.
		Man, oh, man.
		Anthony, hello.
		You're on the air with Dr. Long.
unidentified		Hi, good evening, Art and Dr. Long.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I'll make this quick because I know you don't have a lot of Time.
		I'm curious, out of all of the NDE cases that you've experienced, have you ever had any that have reported contact with any kind of interdimensional or alien beings?
		And like I said, I'll take my answer off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, should be a good one, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really good question.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Interdimensional, I mean, these seem to be spiritual beings are very common.
		These are unearthly, not physical, often seem to be made of energy, and often in a realm where time doesn't exist.
		So interdimensional beings are very common in near-death experiences.
		Now, Anthony's great question is about alien beings.
		In other words, beings that seem to be more of a physical type beings that are not of this earth.
		And interestingly, we have a few near-death experiences, and I find this fascinating.
		I'm sure your listeners will too.
		A few near-death experiences describe going into space, and sometimes they'll see other, it's not at all uncommon for them to describe other suns seemingly viewing other galaxies.
		And on relatively uncommon occasions, but we do have reports of this, they actually go and visit other worlds, and there can be other life forms and other beings.
		In fact, I'm recalling one near-death experience where they specifically asked the beings with them if they could see another planet that had life and beings that were less well-developed, less advanced than they have on Earth.
		And they were shown sort of humanoid-type beings that were less culturally developed than here on Earth, sort of like caveman-ish, sort of, but not quite.
		That's analogous.
		And then he wanted to see an alien existence that was more advanced.
		And boom, there he was seeing something that was technologically far more advanced than we have on Earth.
		So very interesting observations from these occasional near-death experiences that seem to strongly suggest that we're not alone in the universe and that there are indeed other planets throughout the universe that have life either more or less developed than what we know on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Allentown, Pennsylvania, I think.
		Hi, Dr. Long.
		I just want to say thank you very much for all your research and your website, and thank Jody, too.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're welcome.
unidentified		It's our second full time job.
		My question is, if there's no judgment, why isn't Kravorkian seen as sort of a hero?
		And why not our quietude stake with a bear botkin?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and again, that's what led me to think a lot, too.
		You know, if there's no judgment that seems contrary to my personal sense of justice and what I think a lot of other people do, why can't there be that cosmic justice for people that are evil, that live on this earth?
		I mean, what's that all about?
		And yet my job is not to put a spin on near-death experiences, to report them rigorously and accurately as I observe them.
		And there's absolutely no question about that, that there's a striking lack of judgment.
		Now, other spiritual beings, even God may be displeased with what they see during the afterlife.
		But in terms of a global judgment, in terms of judging the near-death experiencer globally in totality, of the totality of their being, that is vanishingly rare to close to non-existence.
		So there seems to be that part of the unit.
		And of course, let's not forget also that everybody that has these near-death experiences where they encounter no judgment, 100% of them return to their earthly life to tell their tale.
		So I'm not totally sure that we can extrapolate that to people that permanently, irreversibly die.
		Is that going to be the time they face that final true end of their life of judgment?
		I don't know.
		On the other hand, I do know that the universe seems to have this overwhelming, beyond earthly understanding sense of love and compassion and connection.
		And I kind of get the sense that we're forgiven far more than we could possibly forgive others that we run into in our earthly life and sometimes even ourselves.
		And I guess the other way to look at this is our earthly life seems to be the tiniest slice of our true total infinite existence that we are as beings.
		And so for us to suffer some permanent, involuntary ill fate because of that tiniest slice of our errors that we've made in our earthly life, of that tiniest slice of our eternal being, maybe that's something that an overwhelmingly compassionate, loving God isn't having happen.
		But again, that's speculation.
unidentified		Yeah, it's the way I look at it, too.
		It's such a small piece of existence.
		Why not see it through?
		It just the other side of it, it kind of comes down to what you believe.
		Like whether you believe that the NDEs are everything or there's maybe that slice of what happens after a permanent death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there sure is a lot of evidence.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, appreciate it, Doctor.
		We are short on time.
		Very quickly, Jeff, Skype, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, hey, it's code named Jeff Septer out of Dallas.
		And just a real quick one, pretty weird.
		Close family member of ours.
		When he was on the table, operating table, he started saying that he was in flames and it was hot and whatnot.
		He survived.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're kind of breaking up on this, but a hellish NDE is what you're describing, right?
unidentified		Right.
		And he survived.
		And then later it happened again, and he didn't survive, but the same kind of ordeal on the deathbed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder if he went to the destination he first saw or somehow managed to turn his life around in time.
unidentified		Hard to say, but it was pretty scary.
unidentified		I actually heard the second time myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's scary, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is.
		Yeah, deathbed visions can be similar to near-death experiences, but aren't exactly the same thing.
		It's hard to sort that out during deathbed visions because they can have hallucinatory experiences.
		They often are on high doses of pain medication.
		And so it's hard to really Know if those are true spiritual experiences or if those are what you would expect to see with a dying brain.
		And by the way, we talk about near-death experiences and their relationship to the brain.
		That's more often what you'd expect in a dying brain, hallucinatory, unreal, frightening experiences, and yet those are very rare in true near-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Monterey, California, not much time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, it's Bob.
		I had a near-death experience in that I fell down a mountain and I was picking up momentum as I was sliding.
		And I had prayed heavily before I started down the mountain because I really didn't think I was going to make it.
		And all of a sudden, everything stopped.
		It was stop motion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to ask this question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you skiing, or what do you mean starting down a mountain?
unidentified		This was in your neighborhood, so it was at Big Sur, and I was in the gorge area, and I had climbed up the mountain by mistake and stupidity and got caught in a slide, and I got to the point where I wasn't going to be able to stop without going over the edge.
		But basically, time stopped, in that I was in stop motion, and a voice said, Bob, what are you doing here?
		It's not your time.
		But what I asked him said, we weren't expecting you.
		And from that point, there was a brief conversation.
		I was told that I could view my life.
		I could have the life experience.
		But I was only 16.
		They said not much had happened in my life.
		And I said they, but it was one voice that I recall.
		I didn't see anybody, but just this conversation that took place while motion basically and time had stopped.
		And out of it, I said, well, they said, you can stay or you can come with us.
		And I said, what must I do to stay?
		And they said, you must have a leap of faith.
		And that's what they said to a guy falling off the mountain.
		But there was one opportunity to save my life, and I saw a tree limb sticking out of the rubble just before I'd go over the cliff.
		And I had to leap and then grab the tree limb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's your leap of faith and leap of being saved, I guess, too.
		I'm sorry we're going to have to cut it off there because we've got to go.
		The show is ending.
		Doctor, it has been a real pleasure and honor to have you on the program.
		And we'll have to do it again, obviously.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is a fantastic show.
		I mean, this has been an epic discussion of near-death experiences.
		You're the master interviewer.
		Enormously, enormously fascinating show here.
		So, gosh, yeah, I would be delighted to do this at any future time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your website again?
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, nderf.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Be safe, and thank you for the wonderful interview, Doctor.
		Good night.
dr jeffrey long ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, good night, Art.
unidentified		Magical journey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A magical journey is right.
		Absolutely right.
		So, everybody have a good night.
		We'll see you tomorrow evening, same time, same channel, and all that.

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