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Sept. 16, 2015 - Art Bell

02:14:58

Art Bell MITD - David Weatherly Shadow People

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	♪♪♪ From the high desert and the great American southwest,
	I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon.
	About a minute late here, sorry about that.
	There were some technical things that happened.
	The internet went berserk.
	Hi, everybody.
	Welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Great to have you along through all these time zones, circling around the world, each and every one of them covered like a blanket by this program.
	So...
	Um, what in the world could it have been?
	Well, it was some last-minute scrambling thing, trying to get the internet where it was supposed to be.
	So, the answer is, I don't know.
	But, it either got, it fixed itself, or I banged on something correctly, or something.
	I have no idea.
	So, rules for the show.
	It's gonna be, it's gonna be an extremely interesting show tonight.
	The rules are as follows.
	No bad language.
	One call per show.
	Very simple.
	Almost no rules.
	I'm going to assume that you all have had enough politics for the night.
	So I'm not going to do that to you.
	I did see the debates and that's all I have to say.
	In Chile, though, they've got some serious news to deal with.
	That's a big earthquake, 8.3.
	8.3 off Chile's northern coast on Wednesday night, causing buildings to sway in the capital, Santiago.
	Causing tsunami warnings and, in fact, really big, heavy waves, some flooding.
	Big earthquake.
	8.3.
	I wonder when the big one comes to us.
	It is interesting to me that we have spent, I don't know how many billions of dollars, training Syrian rebels to fight, right?
	We want them to fight.
	And we are left with, well we did have 54 fighters and that was pretty embarrassing.
	Now, now we're down to four or five fighting soldiers.
	That's just nuts.
	In other words, it didn't work.
	Period.
	There is an interesting survey going on.
	Well, maybe it's interesting.
	It's Tara MacIsaac, I believe it is, reporting on Rupert Sheldrake.
	He's always doing a study on something, plants or something, right?
	He's a very interesting interview.
	We should have him on Rupert Sheldrake.
	But now he's doing a survey on How many of you are telepathic with regard to your phone?
	In other words, when your phone rings, do you know who's calling?
	I'm not sure that, you know, a positive result on this is going to prove anything at all with regard to telepathy.
	I just, I don't think it's going to.
	But we'll see.
	And I'd like to have Rupert on anyway, again.
	I'm not wild about this particular survey because, you know, I usually know who's calling, right?
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	Buy a car and let the warranty lapse.
	You want calls?
	They will call you to death.
	Absolutely call you to death.
	It's crazy what they do.
	They never stop.
	Your warranty!
	Your warranty!
	You've got to do it!
	No, I don't.
	I don't have to do it.
	You know, I can take my chances if I have my own money.
	I can take my chances.
	Oh, you don't want to do that.
	You want to pay us.
	No, actually, I don't.
	I'd rather take my chances.
	Thank you.
	If I have to pay to get it fixed, I'll pay to have it fixed.
	All right.
	Well, anyway, coming up tonight, We're going to be talking with David Weatherly, and the subject is going to be shadow people.
	Now, because of the urgent attempt to get the internet functioning again, I didn't have an opportunity to get hold of our guest yet.
	So I'm going to do the break first, and I'm going to get him on the line because, and it's a big because, I want him to hear my story of terror.
	And I'm not kidding about that word.
	Terror really is the right word.
	And that's the reason I want to do this show.
	So coming up in a few moments, David Weatherly.
	We're going to be talking about... It even bothers me to say it.
	Shadow People.
	Stay right where you are.
	Oh, the night is power.
	City lights painted dark.
	In the day, nothing lasts.
	Before my work gets done.
	Because I'm living free.
	This future feels sweeter.
	All right.
	the desert doesn't scream calls we trust you but remember the NSA well you know
	to call the show please dial 1-952-225-5278 that's 1-952-CALL-ART I really think that is my favorite all right David Weatherly
	is coming up and I'll tell you all about him but before I get him on I'm
	gonna tell you why he's here because I because I had a terror and that's the only
	decent word for it The only word that fits.
	I had a terror.
	I've been a talk show host.
	I've been talking about this kind of stuff all my adult life.
	But it never happens to me.
	Save an experience with a couple of unidentified flying objects.
	One very serious one.
	None of this other stuff.
	I've never met these creatures, these animals, these things that we talk about and wonder about on the air.
	Until, and I'm telling this mostly for David's benefit because I doubt he's ever heard it, until about two weeks or three weeks, two or three weeks before the show, I was staying up late, getting in training, you have no idea the hours I keep.
	It's awful actually, I rarely get to sleep anymore before about five to six in the morning, usually about six.
	At any rate, I was in training for that later hour.
	Turned out I needed more training, by the way.
	And I was in my ham shack, my ham radio room.
	You've seen pictures.
	In fact, there's a picture of that on my profile picture on Facebook.
	And working on the computer.
	I've got a, you know, a full desktop computer and a monitor in there.
	And I was beginning to catch up on the world of the paranormal, because that's about You know, what I was about to plunge into again.
	Working very late into the morning.
	Concentrating very hard.
	And so what I'm going to tell you is the dead flat truth.
	And it is terrifying.
	It may not sound terrifying to you because it, you know, it hasn't happened to you.
	Yet.
	Or maybe it has.
	I You know how we've talked in earlier programs about how you can sense when somebody's watching you or you're being watched or something?
	I had that sense.
	And, oh God, I turned to my right and here is this human form.
	It was not completely solid.
	I could see something behind it, but it did have enough solidity So I knew what I was looking at.
	This wasn't, you know, a trick of the eye.
	This wasn't a floater in the eye or anything like that.
	A lot of people, I guess, have that kind of problem.
	I don't see how you could mistake it for what I saw.
	Because what I saw was a being.
	It was a being.
	It looked like a human.
	Now, it had legs.
	It had a torso.
	It had a head.
	The arms, I guess, were at the side and kind of mixed in with it, but other than that, that's what it looked like.
	And as I mentioned, I could see through it.
	Now, this doesn't... I'm describing this to you, but it doesn't describe the instant of terror.
	This was to my right, as I sat on the desk.
	I looked over and I saw this being, and I just kind of jumped and I guess I was in a little bit of shock, or a lot of shock, I don't know.
	Anyway, it vanished.
	It was gone.
	And I looked behind me.
	You know, I just swiveled.
	I've got a swivel chair.
	All my chairs are made for a bad back, right?
	I've got a swivel chair.
	I swiveled around, looked behind me, and there it was.
	It was behind me, up against the back wall.
	And I could again see a little bit behind it, but it was pretty solid.
	Still looking just the same way, no real change.
	The same way.
	And I was scared out of my wits.
	I swam, I came back around and oh my God, it was on my left.
	It was on my left up against the wall.
	And when it disappeared, it just went like that.
	It was just gone.
	And then suddenly it was to my left up against the wall.
	I don't know any other words to describe it except shadow person, or shadow being, or entity.
	Whatever in the hell it was, it scared me so badly at that point that I ran out of the room.
	You know, I've got a wife, I've got a daughter in a room next to me, next to my ham shack.
	I ran to the back of the house to the closet.
	I guess I really shouldn't be talking about all of this.
	Anyway, I went to where I keep a weapon and got it.
	Probably a poor choice, but I'll tell you, the terror was such that I was convinced that we had an intruder in the house, that we had... that something awful was there, whatever in the hell it was, it was awful.
	And so I went everywhere.
	I went everywhere in the house.
	I went in every room.
	I went out in the garage.
	I went all over the place.
	Surprised I didn't wake my wife.
	And found nothing.
	But when I tell you what I experienced was terror, I mean real terror.
	No idea what I saw to this very day.
	No idea.
	I remember doing a show many, many years ago on Shadow People.
	People send in pictures of, you know, shadow beings in hats and stuff like that.
	But, you know, to me, at that point, it's something that we talk about.
	It's something for a night's subject.
	And it kind of snuck up on me slowly.
	I had never heard of it before and certainly never experienced it until recently.
	So there you have my kind of embarrassing description of what happened.
	Now comes David Weatherly.
	Thank goodness!
	A paranormal investigator, an author, adventurer, explorer, for over 35 years, he has delved into the world of the strange, investigating cases around the country and around the world.
	He has written and lectured on a diverse range of topics, including cryptozoology, ufology, hauntings, and ancient mysteries.
	David has also studied shamanic and magic Magical traditions with elders from numerous cultures including Europe, Tibet, Native American, and Africa.
	He has been a guest on a wide range of TV and radio programs including Dreamland, over there with Whitley, featured in Watchers Volume 5.
	He is the author of Black-Eyed Children.
	Oh, that's another good one that has only come up recently.
	And a book called Strange Intruders.
	So, David, welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
	Good evening, Art.
	Thanks for having me on.
	It's a pleasure.
	Yeah, good evening.
	So, you know, I had to delay things and change them around so that I had you on the line when I went through that description.
	And I wanted you to hear what I experienced, which, honest, scared the hell out of me, David.
	It really did.
	It's hard to describe the kind of terror that I felt.
	Oh, no doubt.
	All right.
	And I tell you, over the years, I have sat down with so many people and heard, you know, countless variations of that same type of account.
	And, you know, often when I interview these people, it's like interviewing someone who's just went through a trauma.
	or a very frightening experience and they just radiate.
	You know, I find that a lot of these people, even recounting their experiences to me, if it's been, you know,
	a year or several years sometimes, when they go back to that moment,
	they start becoming fearful again.
	That's right.
	It comes right back.
	It comes back.
	Because of recalling the experience.
	Yes.
	It brings back not just the memory, but the emotional state that occurs during these encounters.
	That's right.
	The terror.
	That's the word for it.
	Terror.
	Trust me.
	Terror.
	Yeah.
	There's no other word for it.
	And I'll tell you, I've heard some, you know, that were so frightening and over the top that You know, you really sort of wonder how some of these people even maintain their sanity long enough to push beyond this.
	Because there are some of these encounters that become physical.
	And that takes the fear factor up in many more levels.
	You sure would.
	I swear, it was a terrible idea to get a gun.
	Because if I had seen this thing, I'd have fired.
	I wouldn't have done a damn bit of good now that I think back on it.
	I'm sure it wouldn't.
	I mean, I'm sure a bullet would go through it just like a little bit of the light did.
	You know, I guess you're some kind of expert on these things.
	Well, what the hell are they?
	Well, first of all, despite having, you know, so many years in the paranormal, I don't know that there's any such thing as an expert in this field.
	You know, I continue to investigate and all I have are more questions.
	And the shadow people, man, that's right there at the top of things that we really, we just don't have enough answers.
	And one of the reasons that we don't is because these shadow beings, first of all, they go way back in history.
	You know, you can read early old medieval accounts of people encountering shadow or phantom monks, as they used to call them.
	And it would be this black moving shadow, for lack of a better term.
	Mine didn't move.
	I mean, it moves from one part of the room to the other.
	That's right.
	But not, there was no physical movement of legs or anything like that.
	No, but you know, they almost move like shadows.
	You know, just as if, you know, the way a shadow can suddenly move from one wall to another.
	Of course.
	Can in front of a light and project a shadow.
	Yes.
	And that jerky, sudden movement where it looks like, you know, it's in one location and suddenly it's in another.
	Right.
	And this is very common with these things.
	You know, people will report these things.
	They're very commonly reported in people's bedrooms late at night.
	And people will see these things at the foot of the bed.
	Or across the room, you know, just looking in their direction and suddenly it moves.
	Leon, let me see if I can get you to understand this.
	I'm a pretty rational person.
	I'm actually kind of a skeptic with most things.
	Frankly, I am.
	But I'm telling you, David, this thing had form.
	It was real.
	It was not some trick of shadows.
	Not some trick of something whistling across my eye.
	It was real on my right.
	It was real behind me.
	It was real on my left.
	This was a real something.
	And, you know, I can say these words and people will sit out there and go, yeah, right.
	He saw something.
	No, I saw a shadow person or what I would describe as a shadow person.
	And there's absolutely no question about it.
	If people want to doubt it, fine, doubt it away.
	This thing was real, a real something.
	And it was terrifying.
	Now that I've got that off my mind, I hope.
	Well, I absolutely believe you, Art.
	And, you know, as I said, I've spoken to so many people who were really in the same position that you are.
	You know, they weren't interested necessarily in anything, you know, paranormal or strange.
	And, you know, these weren't common topics for them to sit and discuss.
	But suddenly, you know, things, something like this happens and You know, in a heartbeat, it takes someone from being a skeptic to suddenly realizing, my God, I have experienced something that there is no rational explanation for.
	And that alone, you know, really transforms someone emotionally and mentally and every other way.
	But, you know, moving beyond the fear of the experience, I have one theory, David.
	Can I run it by you?
	Sure.
	difficult thing for people who have these encounters because it is a physical reality.
	And you know, just like you pointed out, there's plenty of people who will jump up and down
	and say, no, no, this is, you know, this is a result of exhaustion or stress or, you know,
	it's a trick of the mind and all these various things.
	But I have one theory, David, can I run it by you?
	It's only a theory.
	It seems to me that if you sit in front of a monitor for enough hours, and I had been
	there for a long time, that your brain begins to be affected by the refresh rate of that
	monitor, whatever that is.
	And I've always kind of wondered, would that allow you to see something that you would otherwise Not see.
	That's the best I can do, because I was sitting in front of the computer for a long time before this, and so there's one theory.
	And that's a great theory, and one of the things that we can sort of connect that to is that, you know, through the ages, tribal cultures use things to alter their consciousness.
	And I'm not talking about hallucinogens or drugs or anything like that, but they use Things that are repetitive, such as drumming, trance dancing, things like this, according to tribal beliefs, raise the awareness and alter the consciousness which allows you to see things that exist at a different vibratory level.
	That's the easiest way I can explain it in sort of simple terms.
	You know, a lot of people, again, will doubt things like this, but when we look at modern science, quantum science is now saying, hey, we've figured out that there are 12 other dimensions.
	dimensions of it, 12 other dimensions.
	We don't know how to get there or what's there, but we know they're there.
	Well, this was a grand announcement a few years ago by a group of quantum scientists
	and I had to kind of chuckle when I read it because I thought, you know, shamans around
	the world have been talking about this for ages and saying the same thing.
	You know, it's just that it's framed within their spiritual, magical traditions, but they say the same thing.
	They say, hey, there are other levels of existence, other levels of reality that exist around ours and intermingle with ours. We just don't have
	the level of awareness to understand what's there and possibly interacting with us. David, what
	brought you to this field to investigate this kind of thing, shadow people
	specifically?
	It just sort of blended in with, you know, my interest in a wide range of strange topics and shadow people
	just run consistently through almost everything. I mean, all right, a few years ago, they did a poll about,
	you know, paranormal and supernatural topics and they found that shadow people are one of the most widely reported
	phenomena worldwide.
	Worldwide. And you find these things in conjunction with Yeah, but I don't live in a haunted site.
	Nothing haunted about where I live that I know of.
	I've never had any other haunted-like things happen before.
	No rattling of chains in the midst of the night.
	You know, nothing like that.
	So, you know, a lot of years behind me without anything like this having happened.
	You know, I've been racking my brain for what brought it on, why, the rest of it, what could have been, and I guess you're right.
	I guess these people, or these, what would you call them?
	I call them entities.
	I don't know exactly what they are.
	They mostly appear in human form.
	Occasionally, you'll hear reports of them being very small in stature, you know, almost childlike in size.
	But for the most part, they appear as adult humans in form.
	Yeah, that's what I had, all right.
	David Weatherly, my guest.
	He's written The Black-Eyed Children, and I'm sure we'll touch on that as well, Strange Intruders, but right now we're talking about Shadow People.
	Trust me, you don't want us, you want us.
	At the terror in each sip and in each sip, will you partake of that last off a cup?
	Or disappear into the potter's ground?
	When the man becomes a rat, Take a walk on the wild side of midnight.
	From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
	Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
	That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
	Okay, this comes from something entitled, When Shadow People Attack.
	The first thought that crossed Stephen Painter's five-year-old mind was that someone had broken into the house in Bury, Great Manchester, England around 1986.
	My mom took me to the local estate to her friend's house, painter said.
	I believe that she had been burgled because her kitchen, her entire kitchen, was covered, and I mean covered, in black handprints, almost animal-like.
	He didn't say anything about the obvious black handprints, not until later.
	I mentioned the incident to my mother, what I saw.
	She looked at me and said, nothing, nothing on the wall, Stephen.
	He didn't know how that could be.
	The prints were there.
	His mother's friend said she saw shadows and the image of dark faces on the walls.
	His mother was immune.
	There was nothing on the wall, from her point of view.
	From that point, dark images have followed, Painter.
	The animal-like prints he saw when he was five have turned into entities.
	I've seen a big black mass with red eyes, good Lord, always at the door, he said.
	The hat man, always in the background.
	And typical shadow people, just like our shadows on a sunny day.
	And you know what?
	They are like shadows on a sunny day, but of more substance.
	I only relate to you what I saw of more substance than that.
	Welcome back, David.
	A little story there.
	When shadow people attack, so that's like the next thing I want to get to.
	I always thought that they were just sort of, what's the right word?
	I don't know, beings, if you will, or whatever they are, that they didn't physically attack people.
	That takes it to, like, a whole new level.
	It really does.
	And I'll tell you, Art, you know, all the years of interviewing people and so forth, one of the weirdest and most frightening accounts I've heard was from a gentleman who had a physical encounter with a shadow being.
	And this fellow, his name was John, he considered himself a religious person, but he had stopped going to church.
	He was, you know, very focused on his career.
	He started to notice some strange things in his home.
	He lived alone.
	He started seeing fleeting movement out of this peripheral vision.
	Odd things started to happen, you know, like a fork would go flying off the table.
	Little things around the home, and he continued to try to dismiss it, until he started seeing these shadow beings directly.
	I mean, he was directly looking at them just like your experience.
	They would be there one moment, the next moment they had Vanished they would be in another part of the room. Can I
	ask a question?
	Did did they did they show when he looked at them? Did they show any movement at all?
	Of what appeared to be a human body?
	They he described them as being in human in form and that they would sometimes
	Move, you know, he would see what appeared to be an arm moving
	Jesus.
	Sometimes they would appear to bend forward as if they were looking at him closer.
	But this took a very frightening turn when one night after work, John went out, had some food with a friend.
	He came home late.
	He says that he walked in, he glanced at his mail, he checked his email quickly, he went to his bedroom, kicked his shoes off and sat down on the side of the bed.
	He had not turned the lights on because there was light from outside that sort of shone into the room, giving some illumination.
	He was sitting there looking out the window when all of a sudden he felt What he described as a pair of hands grabbed his ankles and yanked.
	He was slammed face down onto the floor, twisted onto his side with something holding his ankles and says that what he described seeing was a black form under the bed with glowing red eyes.
	Pulling his legs.
	He just, in a moment of panic, flailing around, grabbed hold of a radiator.
	He lived in an older home, had those old-fashioned radiators that, you know, literally have pipes running down into the floor, so it was very sturdy.
	And he wrapped both arms around that radiator.
	And was kicking his legs and screaming and trying to get loose from this thing.
	I absolutely get that part.
	I would be holding on for dear life.
	And if my thing had had red eyes, I probably wouldn't be here right now because it put me in a state of terror.
	I really, really hate you.
	No, we've never talked.
	Have we ever done an interview, David?
	No, we haven't.
	That's right.
	Okay, so one of my phobias, one of my real fears is glowing red eyes.
	So had my shadow person had red eyes, it would be not me describing this to you right now because I would have had a heart attack and died.
	Right.
	Well, John managed to, you know, he somehow fought through the fear enough to focus.
	I mean, he was in panic mode, don't get me wrong.
	All he could think about was getting loose from this thing because he told me, Art, he
	said that he knew if this thing drug him under the bed that he would just be gone.
	And he told me, he said, David, I don't know what would have happened to me, where I would
	have been, you know, if anyone would have found anything, but he's just convinced that
	he just would not be here anymore.
	And in his moment of terror and crisis, he says that he started praying.
	He reverted back to his upbringing of going to church every week, and that's what he resorted to.
	And he just started screaming prayers at this thing, all the while kicking and trying to get loose.
	It was, you know, it's such a frightening encounter when you listen to this man pouring his heart out and reliving this terror, recounting this experience of this thing attempting to drag him into some kind of void.
	And, you know, he ended up letting go of the radiator and grabbing the nightstand next to the bed.
	Yanking out his Bible and continuing to pray and started reading passages from the Bible while fighting this thing, and somehow he got loose from it.
	And he says that he jumped up, he went across the room, he's turning lights on, he's screaming at his bed, screaming at this thing that he believes is still under there.
	You know, his fear started to turn to anger because of being victimized and he ended up, you know, kicking against the bed and finally just shoving the bed aside and there's nothing there.
	Okay.
	I have, I guess, one little additional detail that I can say.
	I'm sorry to be talking about what I saw, but maybe this means something and maybe it means nothing.
	This thing did not move.
	And it seemed to me, when it was on my right, that it just disappeared.
	And as I swung around, there it was on the back wall.
	Then it was to my left.
	And that's when I was just utterly freaking.
	But have you ever seen when the Starship Enterprise goes into warp drive?
	Oh, sure.
	Right.
	Just a little tiny bit of that it wasn't a full starship eyes going into warp drive it but there was a little bit of that in as it disappeared the third time you could see a little and that that was it gone.
	As if it went through a portal.
	Yeah well you know I don't know what it went through I don't even know what it did but I'm just telling you that effect if you can imagine that effect on a sort of a minuscule uh... level
	that one of my left uh... when it left it headed
	would have been the direction of the house going into the house uh... from the
	back of the house where my ham shack is and there was that little
	tiny effect not a big effect a little one uh... that's the only movement
	that i can even imagine to describe otherwise uh... nothing
	i've heard other people report similar things to that when these
	shadow people leave and now some people will say that it looks like
	uh...
	the shadow or the darkness gets sucked into something suddenly
	i guess it could be described that way right and uh... of course there are other accounts of these
	things leaving by
	going into mirrors yeah mirrors are interesting
	Huh.
	They are indeed.
	And, you know, a mirror in a dark room, it kind of adds to the eeriness of some of these encounters.
	You know, some cultures around the world have a lot of things connected with mirrors and believe that those are sometimes can be used as portals or gateways into other realities, essentially.
	Of the shadow people stories that you hear, how many of them Um, result in some sort of physical confrontation?
	There aren't a lot of accounts where the shadow people make physical contact.
	Now, there are physical elements occasionally in that, you know, they will at times cause things to move.
	Of course, there are accounts where people will, you know, get really frightened and throw something, which inevitably just goes through these beings.
	So, you know, the physical components when they do show up, as in John's account, tend to be pretty frightening and pretty stunning.
	But fortunately, there are a very, very small number of those at this point.
	But I have to point out that reports of these shadow beings continue to grow every year.
	There are more and more encounters showing up.
	across the spectrum.
	Do you want to venture a guess why?
	These things.
	Do you want to venture a guess why?
	You know, I think there's a number of things that contribute to that.
	The paranormal in general, and I use that term very broadly.
	You know, I'm old school.
	I started this stuff in the 70s.
	And back then, paranormal meant anything outside the norm.
	So I think that it's become such a part of pop culture now, with all the reality shows and movies and everything
	else, that people have become, one, more
	open to discussing their experiences.
	And two, there are more people looking.
	I mean, we have more, you know, ghost hunting teams and ufologists and cryptozoologists now than we've ever had in history.
	A worldwide interest, so more and more people looking, then yeah, more and more things are going to be found and more reports are going to be registered.
	Yeah, maybe, but it seems to me that looking for a ghost, taking like a camera crew out and hunting for a ghost has a very small chance of success, unless you're going to a place that has had lots of really recent encounters and, you know, is really a hot zone or something, but hey, I'm 70 years old now, David.
	This was my first experience with anything like this.
	Right.
	Right.
	Well, you know, I mean, it has another answer to your question.
	We could sort of go down the rabbit hole and examine it in different ways because, you know, spiritual people, shaman, would tell you that the planets in a very different, I don't know.
	Back up for me, David.
	right now, so the spiritual worlds are starting to come more in contact with our level of
	reality.
	And, you know, alongside of that, we could also say, well, what's the human element,
	in terms of our mental focus and our energy, doing to possibly co-create some of these
	things?
	I don't know.
	Back up for me, David.
	You said our planet is in a different lot?
	You know, everybody got hyped up a few years ago about 2012.
	Remember that?
	Yes.
	Lots of craziness and everybody was proclaiming us, you know, the world's going to end and blah, blah, blah.
	Well, they tagged a lot of this onto Mayan spiritual elders claiming this because the calendar was ending.
	But in reality, that's not what those guys were saying.
	I've met with some of those elders and really what they were saying and what a lot of uh... native elders around the world are saying is that the world is is it's going to a transformation because culturally and spiritually and politically and everything else we're at a lot of crisis points and it's all kind of coalescing into a forced transformation I mean facing you look at the nightly news and you know that there are a lot of breaking points are going to start showing up the world's going to start changing and when you
	Coincide that with our personal viewpoint and experience of the world around us then That's bringing some different things to light Okay, you said the planet had shifted in some way Say that again, please Well, you know tribal elders talked about moving into Different worlds.
	The whole reason the Mayan calendar ended was because a cycle was ending.
	And it means that we're starting a new cycle.
	I figured they just got tired of making calendars.
	No.
	So, you know, what they, the way they interpret that is that a spiritual cycle comes to an end.
	And that when it comes to an end, we reach a crisis point where a lot of things have to change.
	You know, it's sort of a natural evolution.
	It's just that they viewed it not just in terms of physical terms, politics, and things like that, but also in spiritual terms.
	So I know we're kind of really getting into the spiritual side of things and some of this is difficult to relate in short terms.
	I'm trying my best.
	I don't care where it goes as long as I learn something about these creatures.
	You know, I don't know about being in a different, you know, I know the Mayan calendar ended.
	I don't know that we're Are we in some different spiritual realm right now that we passed over some magical date?
	And if we did, I'd like to know when it was.
	Well, let me put it in different terms.
	So, you know, if we go back to this idea that quantum science is talking about the, quote, discovery of other dimensions of existence, we can sort of correlate that with ancient spiritual teachings that believe that we come to certain points in the evolution of the world Where it's easier for those levels of existence to sort of cross over with each other.
	The veil gets thinner, so to speak.
	And when that happens, there's more interaction with whatever dwells in those other levels of reality.
	Whatever dwells.
	Whatever dwells there.
	And you know, you go back through history and you look at a lot of these cultures and there's so many legends of other Beings that used to live here with us.
	And at some point in the tribe's history, these other beings leave.
	They go through a shimmering doorway or a hole in the mountain.
	There's various ways it's described.
	And if we try to put that in scientific terms and look at quantum science, we can say, well, it sounds like whatever these things were, they used to live here, they used to be here, and they left through some kind of portal.
	So we're coming back around to points, according to a lot of shaman, where it's easier for these things to come back through and come over here again.
	Portal is just a word.
	I mean, are you talking about moving from one dimension into another or back and forth between?
	That's correct.
	Both.
	So it's an entry point.
	It doesn't seem like, you know, if you say the word portal, it seems like door or a little passageway.
	It doesn't seem that way.
	It just seems like these things drift in and out.
	Now, there is a lot of conjecture now about multiple universes, and I can see something coming and going from the universe, sort of drifting in and out.
	Thank you, David.
	We've got a break here.
	Kind of drifting in and out, right?
	That, I can kind of put together in my brain.
	Terrifying stuff.
	You don't want to see one of these things.
	Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness, this is Midnight in the Desert with
	Now, here's Art.
	Here I am.
	My guest is as much of an expert as I guess you can be on Shadow People, David Weatherly.
	Now, I'm kind of realizing as the interview goes on that I'm having a very hard time doing the interview because I'm not objective about this.
	I wonder how I get objective about this.
	You know, my experience drove objectivity from me.
	That's how bad it is.
	You know, I'm so wanting answers, and you're not going to have them, ultimately.
	And so, that's a little frustrating.
	But it's hard to be objective, David, when you've had this experience.
	And I thought, boy, I'll have David on.
	He'll give me the answers.
	I just can't be objective.
	I'm sorry to disappoint you, Eric.
	No, it's alright.
	You know, these are things that people have been looking for answers for for a very long time, and it's just that unfortunately, you know, for someone who's had a frightening experience like you have, there's not anything that is really going to I hate to say this, but really completely set you at ease with it.
	Because what I find from interviewing people who've had these experiences, there's always this nagging fear in the back of their minds that the thing is going to show up again.
	Or worse.
	And get physical.
	Something like that.
	Or that it portends something.
	Who knows?
	Except that it scared me so badly.
	So who knows?
	Shadow people have been around since when about?
	Oh, gosh.
	You know, we can find reports, as I stated earlier, going back to the medieval period that talked about these shadow monks or these phantom monks.
	And you find a lot of common things with modern shadow people encounters.
	People would say that these figures look like they had a monk's robe and a hood on.
	There wouldn't be any discernible features.
	Sometimes there would be glowing eyes.
	But they would radiate this anger or this very disturbing creepiness about them.
	And people consistently report that these shadow beings appear to be observing them.
	And that's one of the most unsettling things.
	Well, that's what brought me to my first turn to my right, was I did feel something watching.
	That's a very interesting human ability to know when you're being watched.
	Animals have it even better than we do, but you know when you're being watched.
	There it is!
	Okay, I want to ask this.
	Does having seen one of these things once make it more likely that you will see it again?
	Well, I have to be honest with you, yes, it does.
	Oh, great.
	I would say that the greater percentage of people who encounter these things do see them again at some point.
	Okay.
	Of the stories that you're aware of and the people you have talked to, is there an effective, I don't know if defense is the right word, Uh, a way, a way to have these things be gone.
	There are things that you can do.
	Yes.
	Now, some people get so terrified that they resort to, uh, you know, sleeping with the lights on and so forth because, because they have their experience in a completely darkened room.
	Um, what's interesting is that what often seems to be effective for people is using music in the background.
	Okay, you know what?
	I hadn't said this.
	Let me say it now so that everybody understands.
	In the room in which I had this experience, I have a fan, you know, a ceiling fan, and attached to that fan are four 60-watt bulbs going to each corner of the room.
	So this is a well-lit room.
	Maybe that helps everybody out there understand what the conditions were like.
	But, you know, four 60 watt bulbs, that produces plenty of light.
	So no trick of shadow here.
	All right, well, so I was asking about defense.
	Right.
	And, you know, as I started to say, there are a handful of things, you know, a lot of people tend to resort to their spiritual roots.
	And, you know, they will do things, if they were raised Catholic, they'll start saying the rosary again, things like this.
	And a lot of people find that that works for them.
	People who don't necessarily have that kind of spiritual foundation try to find other ways to essentially disrupt Yes, and has anything been proven to be effective?
	Well, you know, what I've had a lot of success with in giving people is having them play classical music in the background.
	Now, there are some interesting studies that say that, you know, classical music assists the brain, it raises your level of creativity and so forth, and it seems to be that for a lot of people this helps Sort of settle the mind so that these disturbing, more disruptive things don't come in.
	Well, that's going to be a problem for me.
	I'm not a classical music fanatic at all.
	For me, it's rock.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Are there any geographic areas in the world where these kinds of things are more common?
	They're very common around locations that have a history of hauntings, particularly older locations.
	There's something called the stone theory that relates to hauntings, and we find that a lot of times shadow people tend to show up around those locations too.
	It's essentially an idea that things like limestone areas with a lot of heavy quartz in the foundation and so
	forth can either attract entities or
	make it easier for things like this to come through and As a result a lot of locations, you know
	You go to Europe and a lot of these older castles and so forth that are are very haunted. There'll be
	shadow people reports All right. How about this another another factor that comes
	in art? No, let me let me interrupt you and throw this in is that
	places that have heavy amounts of Heavy history of negative things, you know, like old asylums
	Prisons things like that. It's very common to find shadow people reports around those types of locations
	Okay I guess.
	I'm sort of getting into the emotional aspect with that.
	You know, a lot of emotional trauma and so forth seems to make it easier for these things to come in.
	And, you know, even on a small personal scale, I find that a lot of the people that I've interviewed who, you know, they don't live in a haunted location.
	They don't, you know, none of the other parameters fit.
	But what is often found is that things are going on in their lives that create high levels of stress.
	More trauma, more emotional turmoil.
	Those all seem to be elements that help create these negative experiences.
	See, I'm trying to relate everything to myself.
	My home life was great.
	I've got the best wife in the world, a great daughter.
	Um, so, no stress there.
	There was stress, I guess, because I had this upcoming show.
	Sorry, I'm trying to relate everything to myself.
	I'm trying to come up with answers.
	And here's the other thing I meant to ask you, David.
	It is, look, shadow person is just a phrase.
	It's the one I came up with when I saw this damn thing.
	Um, I guess I should be not saying damn thing, darn thing.
	I don't want to make it angry, just in case.
	Um, so, It's just a phrase.
	You know, maybe I could have said I saw a ghost.
	I don't know.
	Shadow Person seemed more to fit what I saw.
	But, you know, that's a good question.
	Could it have been a ghost?
	It is, and I see where you're going with that.
	And, you know, it's really a good point because Shadow People, Shadow Person has sort of become this catch-all phrase.
	Over the last 10 years or so, and what is most likely is that there are a lot of different things that are being thrown into those categories because there are variations.
	You know, some of them appear to be very malevolent, like the account that I related earlier with John, you know, this thing, whatever it was, was really out to get him.
	Yes.
	But there are plenty of other accounts of these things that There's no physical contact, and while it's creepy and scary, these things almost appear to just be observing.
	People will report these things manifesting in their room, and they'll suddenly be leaning over the bed as if they're trying to get a good look at the person, and then they vanish.
	It seems that we have a lot of different manifestations all thrown into one category, and honestly, you know, we could go down a lot of different roads to say, hey, this is what they probably are.
	I remember years ago interviewing people about Shadow People, and some of the callers said, you know what, I confronted this being, I stared back at it, or talked to it, or yelled at it, or something, and it seemed startled.
	Now, of course, I had no experience like that, but that was interesting.
	Almost like this being was as startled as the person that was scaring.
	Right.
	And, you know, those accounts do show up, too.
	It's as if they think they're covertly spying on us or something.
	But to be examined in turn is a bit shocking to them.
	If they are of another dimension, then maybe they're as shocked at popping into this one as we are to see them.
	Very possible.
	Very possible.
	And, you know, here's another possibility.
	I mean, they may be having some kind of a fairly normal existence and seeing us and are just as surprised, wondering, you know, what is that?
	Okay.
	Anyway, not so many physical attacks.
	That's a much smaller percentage, right?
	It's a very small percentage at this point, yes.
	That makes me feel so much better.
	How many reports of those glowing red eyes?
	That is a pretty good percentage.
	Probably, you know, from the cases I've looked at, at least a third of them report these things, having glowing eyes.
	Lucky me!
	Got the two-thirds that don't have glowing red eyes.
	Okay, well, Shadow People, I'm sure that's going to be an ongoing subject, but I know that you cover many more things, and because I'm having such a hard time being objective about this, I do want to ask you about these black-eyed children.
	I actually got a call not long ago, first time I ever heard of black-eyed children.
	Somebody called and said they saw one.
	It was very, very startling to them, and weird, and they belonged, and they were with parents that looked blonde and not related to these children at all.
	It was very weird.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	Well, Ari, you think the shadow people are creepy.
	These black-eyed kid accounts are very unsettling.
	Here's a typical scenario to sort of set the stage for you.
	Imagine you've just come home from work, the sun is just going down, and you're maybe in the kitchen fixing yourself a drink or something, and suddenly there's a knock at the door.
	It's not a quick rap, it's a long, continuous, monotonous knocking that doesn't stop.
	Like anybody, you know, things are going to run through your mind.
	What?
	Wow.
	Why didn't they use the doorbell?
	Who's coming by?
	What's going on?
	Has your heading for the door?
	You open the door.
	Here are a pair of kids standing on your porch.
	They're kind of looking down at their shoes.
	They're wearing sort of just drab, mundane clothing.
	And when you open the door, In a very monotone voice, one of the kids says, hey, we just thought we'd come in for a bit.
	Now, you've never seen these children.
	You don't have any kids of your own.
	All these things are running through your mind, and your response is, I think you guys have the wrong house.
	That would be a mild response.
	This monotone response is, We'll just come in anyway.
	Now, inevitably what happens in these encounters is that the victim, for lack of a better word, goes through three very rapid stages.
	There's an initial unease when they open the door, and they're never quite sure why.
	That unease grows to nervousness, you know, as they're trying to deal with these kids.
	And, you know, some people will try to question them or interact with them or figure out, you know, why are these kids at my door?
	Inevitably, these kids will raise their heads and make eye contact.
	And at that point, what the person sees is a child with solid black eyes.
	No colored pupils, no whites in the eyes, nothing.
	Just a solid black eye.
	And the level of fear sort of goes off the charts at that point.
	Right.
	The victim will slam the door.
	And there's a whole range of things we hear in these encounters.
	These kids are described as having pale or pasty skin.
	Some people say it looks artificial.
	They always speak in very monotone voices.
	And they always make requests.
	They want you to invite them inside.
	They want to come inside.
	Sometimes it'll be a simple request, you know, but it's usually something bizarre, you know.
	There was an account where some kid said, you know, it looks like it's going to rain.
	Will you invite me in?
	I think vampires require an invite, don't they?
	That's correct.
	You know, classical mythology says that a vampire cannot cross the threshold unless it's invited, but the same is true of demons.
	You know, classical demonology says that a demonic entity or force has to have some type of invitation before it can come inside.
	These accounts, they're so creepy, Art, and they really, they hit They hit the internet in the late nineties.
	There was a journalist out of Texas that had an encounter with these kids and he's the one that sort of really started the modern wave, so to speak, of these accounts.
	So do you, let me stop you, do you believe, you said it hit the internet, do you believe that this is yet another internet Generated weirdness, or is it real?
	You know, initially, when I heard these, I, like you're saying, I thought, wow, this is probably, this is very curious, but it may be some internet phenomena.
	It may just be some, you know, urban legend.
	But then I started meeting people who had encountered these things.
	And I decided to really examine the phenomena.
	To go back in history and see what I could find that predated the internet, and even television.
	Because, you know, we have to remember that things like the classic X-Files in the 90s, you know, they used this black eye phenomena, you know, with that oil alien that came in and gave a person solid black eyes.
	So, it was interesting, and I thought, okay, we've got to see where this goes.
	All right, where has it got to go right now?
	I'm sorry, I've just got to go to a break.
	I've got to get this in.
	Hold it right there.
	It sounds like something that could have been generated on the internet, but you know, after what I've experienced...
	Heh heh heh heh...
	I could just about believe anything.
	🎵 Music 🎵 🎵 Music 🎵
	Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
	Now, here's Art.
	Yes, what happens is I let too much time go by and then I've got a little tiny area between my breaks because I get so wrapped up in what I'm listening to.
	My guest is David Weatherly.
	He's written two books, The Black-Eyed Children and Strange Intruders.
	Never a book, David, on shadow people, I take it.
	A whole chapter on shadow people in Strange Intruders.
	Okay.
	That's one of the things I covered in there.
	Okay.
	And in fact, if people are seeing the image of the cover of that probably on your website, they'll see that there is a shadow being on the cover of that amongst some other very disturbing entities.
	Really?
	Okay.
	Yes.
	I am now, this is on my website, I presume.
	I believe it is.
	Racing over there right now.
	Anything that shows me a photograph of what I might have seen?
	Okay, I see your picture.
	Let's see.
	Read more.
	Perhaps we've got a picture of your book on here.
	I don't know.
	Well, not yet.
	All right, I'll keep reading here and see.
	Okay, so I see, that has nothing to do with it.
	Okay, I'm not there yet.
	So, where should I go?
	You can go to my blog, which is twocrowsparanormal.blogspot.com, and I'm pretty sure there's a link for that on your website, and if you go to that And look along the side column there, you'll see the covers of the books.
	I am on the way.
	This is what I mean.
	I can't be objective about this.
	It freaked me out so badly that... Okay, yeah, looking at strange intruders.
	What you'll see is just towards the, uh, you'll see dead center at the bottom is the face of a black eyed child.
	And right beside that sort of over his shoulder is a shadow figure with his hand reaching out towards you.
	Okay.
	It was like that short of a hand, but it really was like that.
	And again, I could see through it.
	I would say it blocked 60 or 70% of what was behind it.
	It was a well lit room.
	So anyway, Listen, folks, once you've seen this, you can't unsee it.
	So, there you go.
	That's pretty close to what I saw, but not the hand.
	Right.
	Enough to know that it was a being.
	We touched on the word ghost.
	I mean, it's just a word.
	To you, does the word ghost mean a being that once was alive, David?
	Not necessarily, because I think that a lot of reports of ghosts are simply residual energy, sort of like a recording.
	I think that there are times that, for instance, there's such a powerful traumatic event that takes place that a a recording, if you will, of that is inlaid into the very
	landscape or the location and that certain things can trigger that, sort of like a hologram.
	And I believe that that's why in a lot of reports of hauntings, you know, you'll hear
	about these incidents where, oh, the haunting is that this woman walks the corridor, you
	know, every October on the 12th and, you know, she walks down and she vanishes through a
	Well, a lot of times when you go back to the historical record, you'll find these specific events that tie into things that seem to repeat themselves somehow.
	Okay, well, my guest last night, Lloyd Auerbach, said the same thing, the exact same thing, that it could be some sort of recording or endless tape loop, however you want to think of it, and it just is there sometimes, and it's always the same thing going on again and again and again and again, and that these things could even be attached to material things like rooms or homes or places.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	And I think that's why, you know, when you find a location that has so much history and so much turmoil, you know, like the famous Tower of London, for instance, in England, you know, there are reported ghosts in there and of course there are famous historical events that took place, you know, people
	that were beheaded and so forth.
	And there are reports of these apparitions showing up, you know,
	on the anniversaries of those executions and so forth.
	And I think we really would get into an area where it's something that,
	it's not a technology but it's something that we don't understand
	in scientific terms that's occurring, that's interacting with us, you know.
	And it is like a recording.
	Whether it's in the stone tape theory like I was talking about earlier, you know, there's an idea that some types of stone, heavy and crystal and so forth, can hold a recording of something.
	And that's not too far a leap when we consider a lot of our modern technology relies on crystals.
	True.
	You've been investigating this for 35 years, this kind of stuff, right?
	That's correct.
	Okay, so has any of this ever happened to you?
	I've had some pretty strange experiences over the years, and one of the things I saw that really sort of... I saw a grinning man.
	Now, I don't know if you know what that phenomena is or not.
	I don't.
	It's a new one and it's a great tease because I told you it was a short break.
	Here it is.
	Grinning Man, huh?
	Well, at least mine didn't have a face to grin or grimace or anything else.
	I'm really glad it didn't have a face.
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	Where would you be now?
	To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your phalanges and call 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	Well, okay, David Weatherly is my guest.
	He's here talking about these strange things in the night, of the night, whatever it is they are.
	I'm finding it's a very difficult interview for me because I'm not objective about this, having just gone through this thing.
	Usually, as an interviewer, you know, you're objective and you can ask objective questions.
	I'm asking more questions about self-defense and what I can do about it than I am learning stuff.
	So what I'm going to do is open the phone lines and let you ask, as soon as we talk about The Grinning Man, another one I probably, in some ways, don't want to hear about, but I'm about to.
	So I want to open the phone lines for all of you.
	Major national number is 1-952-225-5278.
	Maybe that's why when many of you call up and talk to a guest about something like this that you have seen, you have a very hard time getting into it.
	I mean, the fear really does come back.
	We were talking about that earlier.
	And as you describe something, it's almost like it happens again.
	Not quite.
	Not that bad.
	But it's close.
	And of course, you can call us on Skype as well.
	In North America, M-I-T-D 5-1.
	M-I-T-D 5-1.
	Out in the rest of the world, M-I-T-D 5-5.
	That covers a lot of the world.
	Somebody said, it's Doug in Michigan.
	Thanks for this, Doug.
	You've got more stones than me.
	You talking about this thing just might bring it back again.
	Have you considered that?
	Yeah.
	Thanks, Doug, in Michigan for that.
	Thanks a lot.
	Okay, so the grinning man.
	That's at least a new one on me, thank goodness.
	Well, my personal account relating to the grinning man, or it happened in the
	1980s. This was in a rural area of North Carolina. There is a whole theory that
	sometimes certain combinations of people can create unusual experiences. At the time I had a friend
	whose name was Tom, and it seemed like anytime we sort of went off exploring things
	that unusual things would happen. This particular incident was that we were driving literally on a
	country road, very few houses, they were miles apart.
	And it was late summer, we're driving along at a leisurely pace and we're coming to this sort of long curve in the road and I see on the right hand side, I was in the passenger seat, Tom was driving, I see on the right hand side of the road a figure standing.
	In the weeds.
	And this is very unusual.
	You just, you never saw anyone walking around in this part of the country.
	And as we approach this figure, I'm kind of zeroing in on it and thinking this looks very strange.
	As I said, it was late summer.
	I realized that this gentleman is wearing a long coat.
	It's sort of Victorian in style.
	He has on a formal hat that's sort of like a top hat.
	His right hand is under his chin and he's sort of rubbing his thumb and his fingers together.
	His other arm is not visible, it's just hanging down at the side and beneath this coat is this very wide silver shiny belt.
	Almost like something you'd see on a science fiction show or something that's that wide.
	But Art, the creepiest thing was he had this grin that it made me think of the Joker from the Batman comics.
	It was an impossibly large grin that no one could physically smile like this.
	As we approached this figure, it seemed as if time sort of slowed down for a few seconds,
	as if we were moving past him very, very slowly.
	Now, Tom has no memory of letting his foot off the gas or anything.
	It's just that something very strange happened when we were passing this figure, and I locked
	eyes with him.
	He was glaring right through the window, looking at us.
	And the moment we were beyond him, you know, past him, I spun my head around to look out
	the rear window, and this figure is now standing in the very center of the road, watching our
	Wow.
	It's physically impossible that he could have moved that quickly.
	So, you know, we continue to go forward and Tom is almost in a panic and I'm sort of, I'm badgering him to stop the car and to turn around because I want to see what this is.
	And, you know, we argued for a few seconds, and he's insistent that this guy is probably some, you know, psycho killer or something.
	Yeah, you're the one with the stones.
	Turn around and go back and see what it is, good lord, man.
	Well, you know, I, I finally, you know, Tom is convinced, you know, this is the 1980s, this is the era of, you know, Friday the 13th and all that crazy stuff.
	And Tom thinks it's just some nutty guy.
	And I'm, so I finally convinced him to look, just do a U-turn.
	We'll go partway back and see if he's still there, which Tom finally does.
	He does a U-turn.
	He goes almost all the way back and he stops the car.
	And I jumped out because I wanted to go see if I could find this thing.
	And, uh, I went to the area where he was standing.
	There was evidence of, you know, someone had physically had been standing in these weeds because the weeds were mashed down.
	But, you know, the woods in this area, very thick, and no one wearing that kind of attire could have quickly gotten through those trees to disappear.
	And, you know, he wasn't running down the road or anything like that.
	Rest of the evening unfolded, some other odd things occurred.
	The house next door to Tom's was struck by lightning and a fire started.
	And several people in the same area reported UFO sightings.
	And, you know, I didn't know at the time whether, you know, do you tie all these things together or not?
	Well, it's certainly a strange series of encounters that all happen around the same time.
	Well, I ended up discussing this with John Keel, who, you know, he was kind of an influence
	on me.
	I met him a number of times, and he did a lot of interesting research, and he had researched
	what he called the grinning man.
	And that is what he dubbed these types of encounters, with these weird figures with
	a hideously large grin.
	Now, Art, I know you've got a lot of loyal fans.
	I was able to jump onto the forum where people are listening for just a few moments, and I see that a lot of people are very interested in clowns.
	And it turns out that a lot of these grinning man encounters almost seem like bizarre clown-type
	figures.
	Kiel investigated a case in Point Pleasant, West Virginia, of a family who this young
	woman swears that suddenly at the foot of her bed was standing a man with a hideously
	large grin and a checkered shirt.
	And he sort of leaned over her bed and looked at her very closely.
	And of course she was screaming for her mother and hid beneath the covers and this figure
	vanished.
	What chat room are you in?
	I was, I jumped on the, uh, what's it called?
	Um, I said, uh, midnight, uh, midnight fans, midnight fans.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And that's what I want.
	Yes.
	Yeah, it is.
	That's one of them.
	Um, okay.
	Okay.
	So they're interested in clowns.
	Um, Well, a lot of people were saying they were afraid of clowns.
	Some of these figures, it's very curious how a lot of these things seem to hit on primal fears that people have, just like the shadow people.
	Things that are slightly off or intangible or just invoke some type of you know almost a childlike alright so i i want to go back
	to where you are said turnaround
	you turn around uh... the car stops and you get out of the car to go look
	for this being you know if this had been a movie
	that's where they break away and they show a couple of detectives right and
	And there's, like, pieces of David Weatherly scattered all over the road and the adjacent countryside, and they're saying, well, we'll have to get somebody to look at the DNA and see if each one of these adds up to David Weatherly.
	In other words, you went back.
	Why in God's name would you go back and get out of the car?
	Anybody who's seen a terror movie all knows how it ends up.
	Yeah.
	You know, Art, ever since I was really young, I was just very compelled by this, you know, all these weird things.
	I grew up reading Fate Magazine and watching, you know, In Search Of and, you know, all of these things just really, it's sort of my passion to pursue these things.
	You know, someone asked me recently if I'd ever been really frightened in these situations, and to tell you the truth, I don't really think about it.
	I go into these situations because I want answers.
	I want to know.
	Okay.
	Well, just remember how it works in the movies.
	We're going to take some calls.
	David, let's go to Knoxville, Tennessee.
	Say hello there.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hey, I just wanted to say, you're right on the money about these shadow people because I've only seen one in my life, but it was in this new house that we moved into about 10 years ago.
	And I still live in the house, but my dog and I, we saw this figure that looked exactly like a human wearing a black bodysuit over its face.
	And it moved so quickly.
	It went into my son's room.
	So help me.
	And we, I know this sounds crazy, but I ran after it and my dog did too.
	We ran right to that.
	No, it doesn't sound crazy, ma'am.
	A mother is very protective of a child.
	And so, yeah, I get it.
	Well, I just, I had to tell you, you know, that this stuff is real and That's the one and only I've ever seen, but my daughter swears that she saw a shadow figure go behind the water heater and that it lived behind the water heater.
	So don't tell me where they live, but I can tell you that this has to be connected with UFOs.
	Oh well.
	That's happened to me my whole life.
	And you guys just brought up this checkered shirt thing.
	So help me God, there was this figure that came to the foot of my bed wearing a checkered shirt.
	It said to me, it said it in a low growling voice, beware of the Bosch.
	Well, my daughter and I, we were so fascinated with what that meant.
	We looked it up on the internet and what it means is beware.
	of the fiery furnace and I want you to know all this stuff is like interrelated. It's sort of like
	you've walked into another world that's right beside of you and I don't know why that it
	happened to us but it's happened to a lot of people.
	Alright, ma'am.
	Well, thank you for the story, and it is like you move from one world to another, and maybe that being is coming from another world.
	I don't know.
	It's as good an explanation as any.
	We talked about that earlier, so that's something to grab onto, I suppose.
	And kind of hopeful, in a sense, because one of the great questions in life, David, is whether there's anything else after life.
	Oh, absolutely.
	And even the existence of another dimension that can be moved into and out of sort of starts to answer that question a little bit.
	Possibly, and you know one of the many theories to explain what these shadow beings are, are that they are, you know, just the souls of people that have passed away and are sort of in some kind of in-between space, you know, before they've fully crossed over.
	So, you know, who knows?
	She did bring up an interesting point in her account, too, that her dog noticed.
	And that's something that's very interesting because you find a lot of these shadow people accounts that People who have pets, they're animals, very often notice these things before the human does.
	Well, thank God I didn't have one of my cats on my lap, David, or it would have left horrible marks when this thing appeared.
	They always do.
	When a cat gets startled, the back claws come out and they launch.
	Overseas somewhere, I believe, me, myself, and I, Yes.
	Hey there, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Philip.
	Yes, hello, Philip.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Brazil.
	Brazil?
	Yes.
	Excellent.
	Wow.
	I know.
	A longtime fan.
	This is so great to hear you back on the air.
	Thank you.
	And I'm enjoying the show, and I just wanted to tell a short story that I had with a shadow person.
	It used to freak me out when I was 15 listening to your show about shadow people, and then I actually had an experience with one when I was still in the U.S.
	at university.
	I was sleeping in the dorm room, and kind of in and out of sleep, you know, in the middle of the night.
	I actually saw the door open, and I thought that it was the person that I was sharing the dorm room with, but it wasn't.
	I turned.
	I had a little bit of sleep paralysis going at the same time.
	I turned, and I saw a very tall, dark figure.
	I mean, it was the size of, I guess, the door, you know, coming in.
	Jumped on the bed, on top of me, and I actually felt the pressure.
	I mean, I'm getting goosebumps just telling you this story.
	I felt the pressure of this figure on top of me and pushing down on me.
	I couldn't move.
	I was trying to vocalize something, kind of scream out, and I couldn't.
	And from that day on, it was almost as if I was possessed.
	Like, things in my life, just bad things started happening.
	So I don't know if you could ask your guest if there's any connection with shadow people actually attacking people and actually having the full exposure of this.
	I don't know what they are.
	I just, after that happened, I got very freaked out about them.
	Yeah, I don't know what they are either.
	Sure, we'll ask your guest.
	Thanks for calling in, Philip, all the way from Brazil.
	You know, the account that he's describing, Art, sort of broaches over into another phenomena and that's the night hag.
	And these often sound very similar to shadow people encounters, but what's inevitable with these experiences is that the person will see sometimes just a shadowy mass or figure, sometimes it's described as a hideous Almost deformed old woman, hence the night hag term, but these shadowy beings inevitably will climb on the person's chest when they are sleeping and apply this overwhelming pressure.
	Now, modern science attributes a lot of this to sleep paralysis, but some of the accounts are very difficult to dismiss in those Yes, there are occasions where people continue to need a recovery period where they have strange things in the aftermath of these experiences.
	what they feel is 100% a physical encounter with these things.
	And yes, there are occasions where people continue to need a recovery period where they have strange things
	in the aftermath of these experiences.
	They're very frightening by all accounts.
	What about sort of a heart attack?
	I mean, that feels almost like a crushing of the chest, right?
	I've heard it described that way, and or part of sleep paralysis, but you're saying there's a being attached to this.
	Right.
	At times, you know, there's a lot of people who suffer through sleep paralysis and, as I said, modern science tends to say that these, quote, night hag attacks are a result of that sleep paralysis.
	Essentially that, you know, the person is generating so much fear because they are paralyzed and can't physically move.
	that the mind is creating other effects that go with the experience and you know
	the sense that uh... they're trying to rationalize what's happened right now i
	mean suddenly you know just imagine suddenly you know you're laying in
	bed and you can't move a muscle you know your entire body is
	is suddenly not within your control so that the brain is trying to rationalize exactly what's
	going on David, science has a guess for all of these things up to
	and including an NDE you know the brain cells dying
	various things being released they've got a and that's all it is
	it's a guess about what it is and that i'm sure would be true of the chest as well
	alright hold on David, we're at a short break
	it's up to you guys Call.
	Explain what you've seen.
	What you've experienced.
	Art Bell.
	Oh, I'm rolling and riding and sleeping.
	I'm rolling and riding and sleeping.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	That's it.
	My guest is a fascinating guy, David Weatherly.
	He talks about all of these things that move, it seems like, in the night.
	And actually, that's a pretty good point to ask about.
	David, they do seem, most of these things, I guess not your smiling man, but most of the others do seem to happen at night.
	Any thoughts on that?
	That is more common.
	I think that You know, logically we could even say that tends to be the quieter time.
	You know, people tend to be alone or up late working like you were and things like that are, you know, definitely a part of the whole experience.
	You know, so much stimulus and so much going on during a typical day.
	Most people are out at work and so forth, so we find fewer experiences.
	But there are indeed accounts of these shadow beings during the daytime hours.
	But more common at night, right?
	Much more common at night, yes.
	Right.
	I guess the brain has a little more time to... Oh, no.
	It wouldn't matter.
	If I'd seen this during the day, it would have been exactly the same.
	Steven on Skype.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric.
	So, I think I just wanted to tell you a story about an incident that I had when I was a young kid with what I think was a shadow person.
	Yes.
	I was about maybe seven or eight.
	Also, just to preface this, we lived in a small house, my family.
	We lived there my whole life up to that point.
	But when my house was set up, it was really small.
	My room was next to my parents' room, like literally right next to it, and my sister's room was right across the hall.
	It was maybe like 800 square feet.
	So I think I was seven or eight years old.
	I'm laying in my bed.
	I'm wide awake.
	I'm thinking about, it's like nine o'clock.
	It wasn't terribly late.
	I was always like a little night owl.
	I was always up till all hours of the night.
	Um, and I'm thinking about playing like Pokemon or whatever.
	Um, it's, it was around that time and I'm looking out of my doorway and I'm laying in my bed and all of a sudden I just see me basically, um, come out of my parents' room and round the door and walk right into my room.
	You saw yourself?
	The thing is, um, that's, that's like what I said to myself, like at the time, um, what I saw was I saw a shadow of, It wasn't like a shadow person like you saw, like a person standing in the room.
	It was a shadow on the ground, as if I was the actual person, but I was invisible, say.
	Walking out of my parents' room, and just my shadow was on the floor, it was going, and it was walking right into my room.
	It was a shadow of a little boy about my age, walking from their room into my room.
	Now, the thing about that is, I found out a couple years later, maybe like eight or so, like maybe like 10 years later, something like that, um, that in the same house, um, my mom also had like two miscarriages, like right before me.
	Yes.
	So I don't, I don't really know what that was about.
	So, so you're, you're thinking that could be, um, oh my goodness.
	Um, interesting, huh?
	David?
	David?
	That's an interesting set of things.
	I thought at first he was talking about literally a doppelganger, which is a duplicate of a person, but this sounds more like some type of ghostly manifestation for lack of a better word.
	It's really difficult to say whether his Mother's miscarriages played into that or not?
	I mean, obviously that is a very traumatic experience, but I don't know.
	Interesting experience.
	I know.
	Let's go to Marty.
	Hello, Marty.
	Marty's got a lot of echo.
	Okay, Marty, you've got something wrong on your end.
	It's echoing like crazy.
	Can you fix that?
	Yeah, okay.
	Well, we can't continue with that.
	Marty, if you can get it fixed, by all means give us a call back, but it was just a wreck of a call there.
	Let's go to the next one on the phone, in Phoenix, I think.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Hi, I'm Dave from Phoenix, and I'm hoping to demystify this experience for you a little bit and explain what you may have seen.
	Proceed.
	All right.
	I have some experience in my background.
	When I was in high school, I was being inducted into a certain three-letter group, a government agency, and saw some things I wasn't supposed to see.
	All this in high school?
	Yes.
	Yes, in Walla Walla.
	And saw some things I wasn't supposed to see.
	So I've gone through a lot to be able to help you with this one.
	If you look on the internet recently, you'll see a supposedly alien sighting at Area 51, and it looks like a man in a skin-tight bodysuit.
	Have you seen that?
	Uh, no.
	Okay, well... I mean, where do I look?
	Now that I see or hear of these kinds of things, my first assumption is technology.
	I don't jump to the To the paranormal right off, you know, there's technology that we have that's far beyond that which most people are aware of.
	Alright, do you know of some technology that actually produces the kind of thing that I saw, and why would they bother with me?
	Well, yes I do, and the reason they would bother with you is the same reason they would bother with, well I suppose anybody.
	A lot of times these suits that they wear, or in other words there is actually a person in your house.
	And so that may be more discomforting than the opposite, but that's what it boils down to.
	And so they have the ability to walk around now and not be seen.
	So people are actually seeing folks.
	And of course, they're associated with UFO activity because this breakaway civilization that we have thinks that it's fine if they do these kinds of things and that we don't have privacy.
	All right.
	Well, I'm not familiar with anything.
	I guess there could be a relationship to UFOs, David.
	Anything in that category?
	Does there seem to be a relationship or there are sightings when these things occur or what?
	You know, in a handful of these accounts, yeah, there are some situations where there are UFO sightings in the area and so forth, but I really appreciate the call.
	I have a hard time with that as an explanation because you also have to add in the fact that these things seem to be intangible, you know.
	More often than not, people say that they can see through them partially, or that people will throw something and it'll just go through these beans.
	So, like you Art, I'm certainly not aware of any kind of technology that is anywhere close to these two types of phenomena yet at this point.
	All right, to Manitoba.
	Hello.
	Hi Art.
	Thanks for taking me.
	Sure, you're not real strong, so you're going to have to speak up good and loud.
	Oh, sorry.
	Yeah, I tend to be a quiet talker.
	All right.
	So I just wanted to share my story with you guys.
	I had many different shadow person experiences over the years, and I guess what I noticed about all my experiences is that they tend to be drawn to that fear reaction.
	But when I don't give that fear reaction back, Either they don't respond or they immediately go away.
	Well, I'd be really, really interested in how you react without fear.
	Yeah, you know what?
	I've experienced that kind of grabbing sensation, the old hag, seeing them while I'm awake, and I guess maybe it's a little bit of a desensitization, but I don't know.
	I've heard people say meditate on it.
	I'm just curious what your guest, David, might have to say on that.
	You know, this sort of relates back to John's account from earlier in the show.
	I think that in his encounter, he was able to conquer his fear by resorting to his spirituality.
	And in a lot of cases, I find that people are sort of able to zero in their focus on one particular thing.
	In his case, it was prayer.
	And that sort of eliminates everything else going on in the, you know, in the mind and in the emotional reactions and allows him to just focus on that one thing.
	Obviously, it's motivated by the fear, but I think that ability to sort of center themselves in is a big component in what allows them to conquer these things or, you know, eliminate them from their presence.
	All right, look, David, here's something to consider.
	The phones are berserk.
	The phone lines are filled.
	The Skype calls are filling my screen.
	So this gives you some idea of how many people have seen something like this.
	I think it is more than just common.
	It's more than we know.
	It's more than people generally are willing to talk about.
	Obviously, a lot of people are involved here.
	Let's go to Skype and tentatively somebody who IDs themselves as MV.
	Hello.
	Hello there, Art.
	Hi.
	Hi, my name is Michael.
	I'm on the tune-in chat as well, Michael Mars.
	Shout out to those guys.
	Okay.
	Here's my experience when I was young.
	I was about six years old.
	I used to sleep in a room with my sister, who was a year younger than me.
	I don't know what time of night it was, I opened my eyes up, there was moonlight coming in through the window, and I looked, I opened my eyes and looked up, in between the two beds that we had, a figure that I can only describe, you know, being a kid, looked to me like the Jolly Green Giant, except like white like a statue, kind of like strange Wow, that's really unusual.
	There aren't too many encounters with beings that are solid white, as you're describing.
	I just pulled the covers over my head.
	I was terrified.
	But I don't know, anyone else had anything similar to that your guests can think of?
	David?
	Wow, that's really unusual.
	There aren't too many encounters with beings that are solid white, as you're describing.
	There are a few accounts that often are related to UFO encounters, wherein people see what they describe
	as well in white figures.
	But, no, you know, I've never heard of anything like your experience.
	It's very fascinating, and thanks for sharing it.
	Oh, well, thank you, and thank you, Art.
	All right, take care.
	Uh, just one after another after another.
	Hello on the phone, you're on the air, wherever you are.
	Oh, hi, how you doing?
	I'm John from Lake Villa.
	Hi, Art.
	Long time listener.
	Uh, can you hear me okay, sir?
	I hear you.
	It sounds like you're in a vehicle or something.
	I'm truck driving through Wisconsin, sir.
	Truck driving through Wisconsin, okay.
	I was going to tell you my experience, and after that I was going to ask a question, but my experience was wrong.
	This time last year, I actually believe I encountered what you call a black-eyed child as I was going to work.
	Really?
	I was driving to work, and I mean, I was in my car.
	And as I was approaching the stoplight, a girl come out of the side of the road, and she had her hands up, but when I saw her face, all I saw was black eyes.
	So obviously, you know, the hair stood up on the back of my neck, and I kept going.
	So, but my question is, the first person I called was my wife, who's from the Philippines, and it's very superstitious.
	And she related that to a, what they call over there, an Oswong, I guess.
	Oswong.
	Oswong, yes sir.
	And she said, and of course she kind of got worried about me, but she said it's like a vampire-type being.
	Is that what a black-eyed child is related to?
	It's like a vampire-type thing?
	Well, good question, David.
	Well, you know, there are similarities with the whole lore of vampires.
	When we look at these black-eyed children, of course, this idea that they have to be invited in, whether it's in your home or in your vehicle.
	And depending on the cultural viewpoint, you know, people will identify these things that way.
	And, you know, the similarities are not just there.
	There's also the pale skin and the fact that they seem to, you know, some people say these things feel like Predators.
	People will report being in the presence of these black-eyed children that they feel like they're being, you know, eyed as a meal or, you know, just really looked over, you know, and it causes this incredible level of fear within the people who encounter them, you know, because, you know, look, Art, anytime you put something paranormal or you know well outside the norm and mix it
	with children.
	The creepy level really goes off the scales and it also becomes very
	unsettling because you know as adults we're sort of predisposed to help children.
	You know, if a child shows up at your door and says, Mr. I need a drink of water or I'm lost, you know, your automatic reaction is going to be to help that child.
	But when a child shows up and is acting really creepy, there's a psychological battle that goes on with a lot of these people I interview.
	They talk about how confused they are because here's a child asking to come inside Yet, all the alarm bells are going off.
	You know, something is wrong here.
	It appears to be a child.
	And it appears that they need, you know, they want something.
	They want some kind of help.
	And, you know, there's a struggle to, do I help this child or do I slam the door because I feel like I'm being stopped.
	Yeah, well, nobody wants to be eyed, stared at, like you're a happy meal.
	No, no, no.
	Go to the next house.
	Down the lane.
	Across the valley.
	Whatever.
	I am not a happy meal.
	But, I am glad to have my guest here.
	Midnight in the Desert.
	Who's gonna tell you when it's too late?
	Who's gonna tell you things?
	Every time I think about it I wanna cry.
	We're falling to the devil's knees, the kiss is coming.
	The way we need is in a time to be young.
	Probably part of the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	This is Midnight in the Desert with your host Art Bell.
	Now, here's Art.
	I agree. I'm getting a lot of wormhole messages here about the creepy factor in tonight's show.
	Yeah, it is.
	It's definitely creepy.
	And one thing on the list here that I don't want to let go is your reference to Slender Man.
	Now, I saw a Law and Order episode David, about Slenderman, involving some teenage girls.
	I don't know if that came from a true story.
	I believe it did.
	There was an incident.
	Was there not, involving Slenderman and a crime?
	There was, Art.
	Let's say right up front, before we get people really worked up.
	I'm sure we're both well aware Slender Man was created on the Internet.
	However, the weirdness of what has become a phenomenon is really creeping into contemporary society.
	Last year, there was an attempted murder.
	Two 12-year-old girls lured a classmate off into the woods and attempted to murder her by stabbing her.
	Some outrageous number of times.
	Fortunately, this little girl survived the brutal attack.
	But in the aftermath of this crime, it was revealed that these two 12-year-old girls attempted to, quote, sacrifice their friend so that Slenderman would come and take them away to live with him in his mansion in the forest.
	No, this, uh, I didn't see the law and order that you're referencing, so I don't know how closely it followed, but, uh, this was a year ago and this past March, the first round of this, uh, whatever it was, the pretrial or whatnot, uh, came up and these, the court has determined that these two young girls who have just turned 13 will be tried as adults.
	Wow.
	So it's, it's a horrendous crime.
	And it's frightening all the way around that something that essentially had its genesis on an internet forum has now affected a lot of lives.
	claiming in their defense, or do you know if they're going to claim in their defense, that this was purely internet-born, almost like internet porn, internet-born, or that there was some claim of paranormal activity beyond and away from the computer?
	You know, I've been trying to follow this very closely, Art, and of course, as you would expect, given their age, there's been very little information from the case, even at this point, you know, a year and a half later.
	So, we really don't know what's going to happen when it goes to trial.
	There just hasn't been much mentioned.
	But the story was repeated numerous times that these two little girls Believe in the existence of this Slender Man.
	And, you know, tragically enough, the people who created this during the contest, that was the whole goal.
	They wanted to create something.
	They wanted to fabricate a paranormal-themed something, entity, you know, cryptid, whatever, and make it go viral on the Internet and make people believe in its existence.
	So, you know, you can go back.
	This forum, as far as I know, it still exists.
	It's called Something Awful.
	And it certainly turned out to be something awful.
	And there are, you know, thousands of entries about this thing.
	And when it started off, the contest, all kinds of people were contributing different ideas.
	And then this very creepy, really rather subtle thing at first showed up.
	And it was this tall figure without a face.
	Uh, with these extra appendages that sort of lurked in the background of photographs and so forth, and began to be attached to different tragedies.
	Uh, eventually he started to be called, uh, the Slender Man, morphed into one word, Slender Man, and more and more people have jumped in on this thing through the years.
	There have been, you know, video series, there are games, there are all kinds of things, and there's a large percentage of people who absolutely believe in the existence of an entity called the Slender Man.
	David, you almost have to wonder if intent, or mass intent, begins to create things.
	Collective consciousness creating something, and there's an ancient belief in what's called a Tulpa, spelled T-U-L-P-A.
	Ancient Tibetans had this concept that something could be Manifested from pure thought all the way into physical form.
	And that's a chilling idea when we look at something like the Slender Man and question, what is the collective consciousness co-creating?
	You know what's a really terrifying thought that springs from that?
	There is this rumor going around right now on the internet, on the internet David, that The end of the world becoming, that an asteroid is going to slam Earth into little pieces, that we're all doomed, that it's the end of the world.
	Well, if enough people start buying into it, and I'll just leave it right there, on Skype, Jeremy, hi, you're on the air.
	Hi Art, this is Jeremy from Omaha, and I want to give a shout out to the DM talk crowd before I start.
	Okay.
	But I've got a shadow person story for you.
	When I was about five or six years old, I was having this problem with seeing shadow people a couple times a week for about two weeks.
	Um, I had this simpler instance where the guy would come out of the wall, a shadow person would come out of my wall and walk through, um, what I had for a nightlight was one of those cheesy fiber optic night lights back in the eighties.
	Right.
	And, uh, he would walk through that and every time he would walk through that, the nightlight would go completely dim.
	And as soon as he got through it, it would come back on again.
	This happened to me at least, you know, four or five times in two weeks.
	It was pretty scary.
	People don't understand when it really happens to you.
	Listening to a story is one thing, creepy enough, but having it really happen to you?
	Oh my.
	Indeed.
	And I'm pretty skeptical in my, you know, in my older years.
	So it's weird to think back on it and think, you know, what was that exactly?
	Well, whatever it was, it cut the light down as it went.
	David, that's pretty weird, huh?
	It is weird.
	And, uh, you know, that's, that's another theme that shows up in some of these accounts that people will have a nightlight or, you know, sometimes there's light reflected in the mirror and these things seem to be able to block them out or partially block them out sometimes.
	All right.
	I think this is Kel.
	Is that correct, Kel?
	Yes, sir.
	Hi, Kel.
	Hi, Art.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Seattle.
	I'm sorry?
	I'm in Seattle.
	Seattle.
	Okay.
	Good.
	Proceed.
	I have a black-eyed kid story.
	Oh.
	Yes.
	I work at night, and I ride my bike to and from work.
	And I was coming home from work in the morning.
	It was about four in the morning.
	And it was in the fall, so it was still dark.
	And I was bringing my bike up to my apartment, and there was a little boy in front of the building.
	And none of my neighbors have kids.
	So I was wondering, what is this kid doing there?
	So I said, Hey, buddy, what are you doing?
	Where's your mommy?
	And he said he was cold.
	So I said, Okay.
	I put my, I'm sorry, I'm really nervous.
	I parked my bike and I went up to him and said, again, where's your mommy?
	And he didn't say anything.
	He said, um, I'll wait here with you and put my backpack down and stood there for a minute.
	She didn't show up.
	So I said, can we call her?
	And I looked at him and I noticed his eyes were completely black.
	And this kid was really weird.
	He had, like, almost like the wrong clothing, like from the 20s.
	You know, like those kids from, like, Newsies.
	They had, like, those caps on and the woolen shorts and really weird shoes.
	And he was super pale.
	Kel, I'm at a break.
	Can you hold?
	Sure can.
	All right.
	Weird.
	Oh, weird, weird, weird.
	I wonder if he looked at her like a happy kid.
	I'd say something to add a little levity.
	Black-eyed.
	At least I haven't seen one I can talk about this somewhat objectively.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Hi, I'm Asia Bell, and it's very late, so I'm going to show you how to make a
	And it's very late, so I'm sleeping now.
	But yo, Rick, so call my daddy, because he's awake, too.
	The number is 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	That little girl never looks at me like a happy meal.
	Hi, everybody.
	A couple of things.
	My guest, of course, This is David Weatherly, and we have been talking of some pretty strange things, to be sure, and we'll continue that.
	I've still got Kel on the line, and we'll go back to it in a moment.
	I just want to say that the story I began to tell you of Stephen Painter earlier and the Shadow Person attack, I didn't tell you all of it.
	It's too long.
	But come Friday, I'll read the whole thing to you.
	It is indeed creepy.
	All right, once again, let's go to Kel.
	You're back on the air, Kel.
	Thanks, Art.
	Sure.
	So, anyway, this little boy, he was pretty adamant.
	He said he wanted to come inside.
	And I told him I didn't have a landline.
	I had a cell phone.
	And once I saw his eyes, you know, as much as I felt compassion for this little boy, there was no way I was letting this kid in my house.
	You know, I knelt down to get into my backpack to get my cell phone to call, even though I was completely freaked out of my mind.
	I looked up to ask him for his mommy's number, and he was gone.
	Completely vanished.
	Wow.
	So I was like, that's it, I'm done.
	So I, you know, bolted into my house and locked all the doors and windows, and that was it for me.
	Sounds pretty typical, David.
	It does indeed, and I really appreciate you sharing that with us, Cal.
	You know, one of the themes she mentioned in that encounter art were these unusual clothing, and that's something that we find in a lot of these encounters with black-eyed children.
	People will say that the kids are wearing old-fashioned clothing or clothing that seems ill-fitting.
	You know, it's just there's something not quite right about it.
	Some people think that the clothing is handmade.
	You know, I've heard more than once People say, oh, they look like Amish kids, you know, like they had handmade their clothing, but it didn't quite fit right.
	So it's just another bizarre component of these very disturbing encounters.
	Disturbing, all right.
	All right, let's go to outside the country somewhere to Mario.
	Hi, Mario.
	Oh, hi, Art.
	How are you going?
	I'm doing okay.
	Get good and close to your mic.
	Is that better?
	It is.
	Where are you?
	Yeah, I'm calling all the way from Australia, actually, in Melbourne.
	Melbourne, Australia, okay.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I thought I'd share with you guys my story.
	It occurred when I was a kid, and to give you a bit of pre-story, before I went to sleep, I actually had some newspapers at the end of my bed on the floor, just looking through them and whatnot.
	And anyway, went to bed, and woke up quite late in the night, and I heard some rustling, and I couldn't think of what it was, and then I sort of started thinking about it, and then it's like, sounds like paper, and I look to where the sound was, which was just at the end of my bed, and I saw this hooded figure, and it kind of looked like Darth Maul, you know that guy from Star Wars?
	Yes.
	All black and clearly stood out from everything else in the room and I just froze, like literally, like as if someone dumped you in a bath that's just full of ice and you know you got like lemons in your mouth, just literally froze.
	Right.
	And I just watched it and it just slowly started walking towards the door and faded into nothing, just absolutely nothing.
	And I didn't know what to do, I was just literally just Didn't have a clue, but anyway, it slowly caught my breath and ended up going back to sleep.
	But the interesting part is, in the morning I had a look... People always say that, you know, they always say I went back to sleep, and I don't get that.
	I didn't sleep at all.
	I don't know how you could.
	I can understand that, but I kind of didn't know what else to do.
	Didn't feel like waking up mum and dad, and I'm like, well, I'm just going to go back to sleep.
	You know, there's not really much option.
	But by then it was a bit more morning as well.
	I swear I was up for at least an hour or so.
	Well, there is an option.
	It's called huddling in a corner with a weapon.
	That would have been great if I could move!
	But look, the most interesting part out of all of it, what I found was that even though I could clearly hear the sound of newspaper, like when you hear someone walking on the floor across paper, it's clear, you know, you know exactly what it sounds like, but there was no prints left on the paper, there was nothing, it was just flat, like there was nothing on it.
	Well, there you go.
	One thing's for sure.
	Whatever this is, David, it sure is worldwide, huh?
	Oh, yes, absolutely, Art.
	I mean, there he is coming from Australia with an experience, and I've heard them from all corners of the world, so it is a worldwide phenomenon.
	Akia Lin, I believe it is.
	Hi.
	Hey, it's Akia.
	I'm sorry, say it again?
	I said hello, it's Akia.
	Akia, okay, thank you.
	I'm from Arkansas.
	Arkansas.
	And I was going to tell a story and ask a question.
	Okay.
	Okay, y'all talking about the night hag syndrome?
	You're a little broken up on us.
	The hag syndrome, yeah.
	Yes, sir.
	I've heard people say it's just sleep paralysis.
	But I don't think it is personally because my pastor woke up one night and there was a black figure on his chest and it was choking him.
	This was your pastor?
	Yes sir.
	Did he say this in a sermon or how did you get the information?
	He told me personally.
	He's a friend of our family and we've been going to his church for years.
	And he was telling us, because we were talking about different experiences we had had.
	And he said that one night he woke up and this black thing was in his chest.
	It was choking him and he couldn't breathe.
	And he said all he could do was in his mind say, Jesus helped me.
	And the thing let go.
	And as soon as he did... I'm sorry, what?
	I'm sorry, Akia.
	It's hard to continue because you're kind of breaking up on us a little bit.
	Anyway, he called upon his God and that cured it?
	Well, it took off running out the door and it literally hit part of the door and left a nick in the door where you can see it.
	Yikes!
	Okay, well thank you very, very much for the call.
	So, there is a bit of a physical manifestation for you, David.
	Right.
	And you know, again, we do hear those on occasion with these night hag incidents and enough so that we can't, I don't think that we can dismiss all of those off as sleep paralysis.
	There's just a, there's a component of them.
	There, there's, you know, percentage of them that just have unexplainable elements like this, you know, piece of physical evidence essentially.
	Right.
	You'd have to look at that all the time and remember the incident.
	Going to Denver, Colorado on the phone.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Going once, going twice, gone like the wind.
	Omaha, Nebraska.
	Hi.
	Hello there.
	Omaha, Nebraska.
	Well, no, I'm wrong.
	Chapel Hill something.
	Yeah, this is Adam, and I'm an alien abductee, but I have experienced old hag, OBEs, and I have a shadow person experience.
	You've had it all, huh?
	I did, especially when I was under 10 years old.
	My shadow person memory, it would happen, I was under 7 years old, like 5, 6, 7, and every, not every night, but it was always the same, a dark figure would come toward my bed, and I would see it clearly, sometimes more clearly than others, sometimes I was so afraid It was very threatening, it was very terrifying and it would go under the covers and then it would disappear.
	But sometimes I felt more empowered and I would sort of stare at it.
	And this one time it got closer and closer and it manifested more clearly and I could see it.
	It was similar to what the other caller said.
	It looked like, I mean, no distinct facial features.
	It was all dark and smoky and shadowy, but it looked like it was wearing a hood.
	And I even saw it look like it was carrying a big chain.
	Just so I'm clear, did you say it would go under the covers?
	I would go under the covers.
	Oh, that I get.
	I thought you said it went under the covers.
	That's where you've got to draw the line.
	But this was when I was wide awake.
	I knew I was awake.
	Before I'd fall asleep, I would see it.
	And it would come pretty much on a regular basis.
	And so what did you do?
	Well, at a certain age, around maybe eight or nine, I stopped seeing it.
	But when I got older, it never harmed me, but I was always extremely terrified of it.
	And when I look back on it, I wonder, since I'm an abductee, if that could be a screen memory for the visitors, the aliens.
	Yeah, it's a very good question.
	David, is there any age-related Yeah, and I noticed that tonight.
	It's very curious, but across the board, when we look at these shadow people encounters, they're not really clustered around particular age groups or you know race or ethnic background or anything else they
	it really across the board is a wide wide variety of people of
	all ages and backgrounds that are experiencing these things and they seem to be on the increase or people just want to
	talk about the more i'm not sure what it is that
	everything is jammed with people robert uh... on skype hello
	uh... okay how are you uh... real quick uh... ralph lafayette okay are you on a
	speakerphone or something robert?
	Robert.
	I'm using my, uh, my palm thing here.
	Palm thing?
	Alright, you're going to have to talk right into it.
	How's this?
	A little better.
	Uh, cause I can't get any closer to the mic, so... Okay, it's good.
	Go.
	Alright, so my question for you is, um, so first off, Roswell, see, uh, and my dad got me interested in your show back in the late 90s in Peoria, Illinois.
	Um, I'm glad you're back on.
	But my question is, um, I grew up having like a haunting thing going on at my house.
	My room was always like 10 degrees colder than the rest of the house.
	And there was one night in particular where a demonic voice said, listen to me, follow me.
	And I looked up at my drapes in my bedroom and this is back in my 1978.
	I was eight years old.
	And there was like a red glow on the drape, but when you open the drape up, you could just see the front yard out in front of you.
	And ever since then, I've had weird things happening where like you're seeing, pardon what I'm going to call it, but like black sperm, like two feet above the floor, just always in the shadows, just like flipping around.
	And I'm wondering if that's like a precursor to like a shadow person.
	Or what does that mean?
	You know what I mean?
	The best way I can describe that is like a thieving ghost.
	I don't know.
	It's almost like calling up and asking for a doctor for a diagnosis and just give it a shot if you've got anything, David.
	Yeah, you know, like you're saying, Art, there are just so many factors to these individual experiences.
	It's really tough to say much about that one.
	I mean, he's You know, he's seeing this red glow, which people have reported seeing these things, having glowing red eyes, and sometimes, you know, standing behind the curtains or something, and then they, you know, the eyes are visible through the curtains, and then they manifest out from behind that.
	You know, it's about the only thing I can say about it.
	You know, it sounds like he's having elements of these shadow people, certainly in those situations.
	He mentioned temperature, and many, many times associated with some sort of, I don't know, apparition or whatever it is, the temperature seems to drop sharply.
	Any idea what causes that?
	Why the temperature changes?
	Well, again, something there's a lot of theories about.
	You know, it's almost the reverse of if you think about a small room and you put a lot of people in that room, the temperature is going to go up.
	So if we sort of reverse that and Think about whatever these things are.
	They seem to have the opposite effect.
	When they come in a room, they make the temperature go down.
	So, I don't have an explanation for it.
	I think it's important data.
	It's one of the questions I always ask people, actually, when they have these shadow people encounters, if they noticed any shift in the temperature or any signs, you know, with their own bodies, you know, the hair standing up or Yes, Art.
	Hi, David.
	Can you hear me?
	Can you hear me okay?
	Yes, I can.
	that and very, very often that is the case, that they feel things like that happen.
	You know, in my case, I was so damn scared, I'm being honest here, that I don't think
	I would have noticed a 10 degree temperature drop at all.
	Alright, next, whoever that would be, it looks like Omaha, Nebraska.
	Yes, Art.
	Hi David.
	Can you hear me?
	Good evening.
	Can you hear me okay?
	Yes, I can.
	I had an experience in 2010 with a very large female black figure in my room over my bed.
	And she had, she was holding a black cube.
	And I thought about the sleep paralysis factor with this.
	She was blowing on the cube, smiling, like she was very jovial, very happy.
	She was blowing on this cube and it was dissolving in the air and it was going into my nostrils.
	I could not breathe.
	I was basically inhaling through the whole experience.
	The reason I called was a couple of things that you had brought up.
	The thing that snapped me out of it was a lightning strike in the back of my yard and then I could inhale and she was gone.
	Wow.
	I read your bio.
	Um, that you had a shamanic background.
	And I actually contacted a shaman in Omaha and brought this up.
	His first question was, did it have red eyes?
	And, and I couldn't say yes because she did not.
	But through that experience, um, this is so, this is so personal.
	Um, I had a family member that had OD'd that night.
	Oh my.
	And committed suicide.
	So that relates to kind of what you were saying, too, with death.
	Through the experience, by going to the practitioner, I actually witnessed this person crossing over.
	I can't really say that... Listen, Holder, we're running out of time.
	Their show is ending.
	Of course, I understand.
	I understand.
	I understand.
	Thanks for having me on.
	You're very welcome.
	I'd love to get you back.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, I can't control the time.
	I'm sorry.
	So, David, the show is ending.
	Too soon.
	Everything is jammed.
	Thank you so much for being here and scaring the hell out of me.
	All right.
	Thanks so much for having me on.
	I really enjoyed it.
	Right.
	Take care, and we'll do it again, I'm sure.
	As I mentioned to you, Friday I'll bring up the... read you the whole story.
	Of this, uh, attack.
	I wonder... There's so many calls, so many people, uh, trying to get through on this subject that it makes me wonder if it's not suddenly... Let me repeat that.
	Suddenly, becoming much more common.
	Attacks of varying sorts by... Whatever these things are, I don't know, but... Seems to be happening more, and more, and more.
	For tonight, Sleep well.

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