Sept. 4, 2015 - Art Bell
02:16:00
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|---|---|---|
| From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening. | ||
| Good morning, good afternoon around the world in all the world's time zones covered by this program, Midnight in the Desert. | ||
| I'm Mark Bell. | ||
| It's Friday. | ||
| Now, 18 to 20 years ago, respectively, I interviewed a young man named Mike Markham, who I affectionately dubbed Madman Markham. | ||
| And that is affectionate, too. | ||
| I called him Madman because the things he was proposing to do I thought would get him cooked like a French fry, and it may yet do that. | ||
| I have, thanks to my producer, Heather Wade, located Madman, and we've got him secreted away to a very special location where he can do an interview. | ||
| That's right, Madman Markham. | ||
| Mike Markham is here. | ||
| Thank God. | ||
| Frankly, I thought he had toasted himself, and of course you can't ever rule that out with this young man. | ||
| So that's where we're going tonight. | ||
| We're going to interview Madman Markham. | ||
| What an incredible, incredible find. | ||
| Just a couple of things. | ||
| My usual Skype lecture. | ||
| No, you don't get away from that. | ||
| I'll try and make it short. | ||
| One great way to call us, whether you're in North America or the world, is by Skype. | ||
| If you have a smartphone, and most do now, download Skype. | ||
| It's free. | ||
| Go to your toy store or your update center or whatever and download Skype. | ||
| When you do that, don't go to the place where you dial the phone. | ||
| Go to add a contact. | ||
| That's usually a little plus symbol that you want to find. | ||
| Add a contact. | ||
| And you add us. | ||
| If you're in North America, Canada, or America, you add M-I-T-D 51. | ||
|
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Midnight in the Desert, 51, M-I-T-D-5-1. | |
| And then we will appear in your list of contacts. | ||
| Simple as that. | ||
| You can press a button, put in your contacts, and call us. | ||
| And it'll sound really good. | ||
| Same deal outside of North America, anywhere else in the rest of the world, only you put in M-I-T-D55. | ||
| Midnight in the Desert, M-I-T-D. | ||
| Just the initials, upper or lowercase, doesn't matter. | ||
| 5-5. | ||
| All right. | ||
| That said, let's see. | ||
| What else? | ||
| Is there anything else critical? | ||
| I want to thank everybody. | ||
| I usually thank Telos, Keith Rowland, especially Heather Wade tonight. | ||
| StreamGuys, LV.net, Sales, Pete Eberhart, TuneIn Radio, Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News. | ||
| And, of course, my wife and my daughter who put up with my being gone and working a lot of the day. | ||
| That said, in a moment, coming up is a man that you probably haven't heard. | ||
| Well, maybe on tape, a lot of people have reviewed the interview of Madman years ago, but certainly you have not heard him in years. | ||
| So coming up. | ||
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The clock strikes 12, and Midnight in the Desert is pounding Packets Your Way on the Dark Matter Digital Network. | |
| To call the show, please direct your finger to get the dial. | ||
| 1-952-225-5278. | ||
| That's 1-952. | ||
| Call Arts. | ||
| Relax. | ||
| Don't listen to that. | ||
| Don't call yet. | ||
| We will get to a portion of the program, I hope, where Mike will take questions, but that won't be now, so don't waste your time. | ||
| Let's go to a secret location somewhere in the country and say, Mike, welcome to Midnight in the Desert. | ||
| It's been a long time, Mark. | ||
| Been a long time. | ||
| 20 years ago, right? | ||
| The first interview, and then 18 years ago? | ||
| Yep, something like that. | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Gee, Mike, it's hard to know where to begin with you. | ||
| Even back then, it was hard. | ||
| You connected, I think, with us. | ||
| Probably we were doing like an open lines thing on time travel. | ||
| Is that how we got together? | ||
| It's been so long I hardly remember. | ||
| That was probably it. | ||
| I remember, right? | ||
| Somebody fetched you a newspaper article, then you basically hunted me down. | ||
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That's right. | |
| I hunted you down like a dog. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So at that moment, when I found you, Mike, and I do, you know I use the term madman affectionately, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It doesn't bother me any. | ||
| It's kind of stuck, though, huh? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So anyway, well earned, really. | ||
| When I found you at that moment, you were experimenting the beginnings of experimental time travel, and you sort of laid it out for me. | ||
| So if you can remember how you began, tell me. | ||
| Tell us. | ||
| Well, way back when, basically, originally I just set out to make a fancy Jacob's letter. | ||
| So basically, two metal, well, everybody, two metal rods, high voltage spark going up the middle. | ||
| That's basically like the old Frankenstein movies or whatever. | ||
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Right. | |
| That was the first step. | ||
| And if I recall correctly, you then modified it with lasers. | ||
| Okay, so if I remember correctly, the original one was about how tall. | ||
| Not that tall. | ||
| Yeah, it wasn't all that powerful. | ||
| I used close hanger wires, so I think it was something like a couple kilowatts. | ||
| A couple of kilowatts, okay. | ||
| Yeah, and I had no way to measure the laser power, but it was hot enough to where it lowered the resistance of the air to get an arc started. | ||
| And that arc was about how big? | ||
| Well, it was 20,000 volts at about 100 milliamps. | ||
| So probably at the longest at the top before it extinguished, probably 7 or 8 inches long. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Now, with that early experiment, Mike, was there that little thing appearing above the Jacobs ladder? | ||
| Yeah, it didn't exactly work as I expected it would. | ||
| Basically, what happened was when I fired the laser, the spark stuck where the laser was, and right above it, there was like a little shimmering Mirage effect, like anything like a road in the desert, I guess you could say. | ||
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Sure. | |
| But this was like a small circular, well, circular, spherical, flash, spherical looking. | ||
| So I ended up, it's like, whoa, this looks strange. | ||
| So basically, I was wondering, okay, what am I looking at here? | ||
| What have I done? | ||
| Yeah, so I decided to test it because I still had some parts laying around. | ||
| I decided to throw it, toss a screw into it and see what, if anything, happened. | ||
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Toss a screw into the little circular shimmering thing that was above the ladder. | |
| Yeah, I mean, it was almost, I almost didn't notice it. | ||
| I mean, basically, it was almost invisible. | ||
| But anyhow, I tossed it in there and the screw disappeared. | ||
| And then roughly half a second later or so, it reappeared where it would normally be landing. | ||
| So obviously, being a scientist, you thought, I'm sure I'm probably nuts and I missed it. | ||
| And so you tried it again, I'm sure, right away? | ||
| Oh, yeah, I tried it several times, and I had the same thing. | ||
| It did the same thing every time. | ||
| And I'm like, oh, this, I got to get a video. | ||
| I got to get a camcorder and record this thing. | ||
| And it's about not even 10 seconds within that thought, my laser overheated and basically caught fire. | ||
| Where did you get the laser? | ||
| I mean, at this early stage, you had no, well, money, really. | ||
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So where do you even get the laser? | |
| Well, that's doing things on the cheap like this. | ||
| It tend not to last very long, and that's basically what happened. | ||
| The laser overheated. | ||
| I more or less salvaged. | ||
| It was a diode laser out of a CD player. | ||
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Okay. | |
| At this point, you had not yet had your run-in with the law, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, but yeah, long story short, basically, I ended up, it's like, well, if I've got to rebuild this thing, let's go ahead and make it bigger. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So what you had was blown up, sort of. | ||
| I guess there were some salvageable parts, but the laser was all gone. | ||
| Yeah, and it's like, okay, I can probably just use a CO2 laser. | ||
| I mean, those tend to be high power to begin with, expensive, but at least it would last longer. | ||
| I do have this question. | ||
| Did you come to a conclusion, you know, after throwing that screw through a few times about what was happening to it? | ||
| Well, I mean, at first I think, okay, maybe did I just see what I think I saw? | ||
| At first, I couldn't basically, it's like, am I going nuts? | ||
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Of course. | |
| Did I just hallucinate? | ||
| But yeah, I mean, at first I think, okay, maybe I'm just making it invisible or whatever. | ||
| But then basically, I didn't hear it hit the table. | ||
| So if it's like cloaking it or whatever, it was cloaking the sound too. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So at this point, Mike, were you endeavoring to produce some kind of time travel? | ||
| Is that what you thought you were doing, or did you not know what you were doing? | ||
| Well, I mean, basically, like I said, when I first discovered this, I was just making a fancy Jacob's ladder slash light show. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I didn't set out to actually go out and build a time machine. | ||
| It's like, I want to build a time machine. | ||
| Let's try this. | ||
| That's not the way it happens. | ||
| This is the way great experiments are formed. | ||
| You know, it starts off like this. | ||
| So here you are, a burned-up laser. | ||
| You need more parts. | ||
| You need more power. | ||
| Obviously, the screw had to have gone somewhere. | ||
| I mean, did you even begin to theorize and think, well, where in the hell did that thing go? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, at first I think in mind, maybe I just made it invisible, but then I thought, well, if it was just invisible, I'd still hear it hit the table. | ||
| See, this whole contraption was basically sitting on a makeshift table, four-bait sheet of plywood. | ||
| Even invisible is cool, right? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, they can actually do that these days with metamaterials, but not in 1995. | ||
| So that had been a major discovery anyway. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So either way, it's cool. | ||
| Time travel, disappearing, becoming invisible, going to a different spot, all of it is cool, and you can't account for it with any known science that I'm aware of. | ||
| So anyway, you decided you needed bigger and stronger and more powerful everything. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| And well, long story short, the transformer I used for this, I wound myself, I'm surprised that didn't catch fire too because I only, at the time, back in 1995, I didn't have internet access. | ||
| So basically, if I wanted to learn how to do something, I had to learn trial and error. | ||
| I mean, if I built something, it blew up. | ||
| I knew not to build it that way. | ||
| Yeah, winding yourself is problematic at night. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, well, these days I have internet access. | ||
| See, I mean, the basic formulas to build a transformer have been around since the 1840s. | ||
| But in 1995, with no internet access, I didn't know about the universal EMF equation. | ||
| So that's basically where you start. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And if I was calling, and, well, before I had internet access, I was trying to call around and ask, yeah, how do I build this? | ||
| Like, call around and ask the transformer factories, yeah, I want to build this transformer, how do I do it? | ||
| What performance do I use? | ||
| They didn't want to tell me that, but they wanted to sell me a transformer. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| So you ended up just winding your own. | ||
| Yep, through trial and error. | ||
| Okay, well, obviously you needed more oomph. | ||
| You needed more power. | ||
| And I guess that's when, and bear in mind, folks, at that, how old were you then, Mike? | ||
| 21. | ||
| 21. | ||
| 21 years old. | ||
| And I think, were you working then? | ||
| I don't think you were. | ||
| Yeah, actually, I was working at the local, I don't even remember the name of the Industrial Lumber Sales, I think was the name of the place. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| But not rich. | ||
| No, not by a long shot. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So at some point, your 21-year-old brain said, transformer, hmm, transformer, hmm, where can I get a transformer or two? | ||
| And that's, I guess, when you came up with the idea of looking around for a spare power company transformer. | ||
| Yep, I mean, basically, it's like, well, I need more KVAs. | ||
| It's like, oh, a pole transformer. | ||
| Those are powerful enough. | ||
| They certainly are. | ||
| So anyhow, there's King City. | ||
| At the time, I was living in Stanbury, Missouri, and King City about maybe 10 or 12 miles south of there. | ||
| There was like half a dozen of them just standing outside the fence in the substation that powers all of King City. | ||
| It was just outside the substation. | ||
| Obviously not in use at the time. | ||
| No, I mean, that's, I mean, I've heard of people actually attempting to take them off poles, and I've never heard of a successful attempt from that. | ||
| Not a good idea at all. | ||
| And these were just, what, sitting on the ground? | ||
| Sitting on like a little makeshift bench outside the fence. | ||
| Obviously, I guess they were used for spare. | ||
| Some of them were just taken out of service due to their age. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And you saw them sitting there, and they were saying to you, come here, Mike. | ||
| Get me. | ||
| I mean, it's like, well, if the local utility aren't going to use them, I can. | ||
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So you loaded up... | |
| Take a truck over there? | ||
| I paid basically a friend slash co-worker of mine. | ||
| He had a pickup truck. | ||
| So I basically paid him basically $100 to drive down there and help me pick these things up. | ||
| Because these things aren't light. | ||
| I mean, when the utility picks them up on the pole, they got a crane to do it. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| So they weigh like 250 and 350 pounds each. | ||
| So they're not light. | ||
| How did you even get them up on the truck? | ||
| I guess it took how many of you? | ||
| Three of us. | ||
| Basically, it was him, basically him, and a friend of his and me. | ||
| Well. | ||
| And it was still basically a struggle to get them in there. | ||
| But we managed. | ||
| You know, Mike, the police would usually call those people co-conspirators or something else. | ||
| Yeah, well, yeah. | ||
| I mean, I was basically more or less basically told them, hey, I'm the mastermind. | ||
| Well, of course, they'll take that into consideration, but they're not going to say, oh, you're the main guy that did it. | ||
| They're not going to let everybody else go. | ||
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Anyway, you got away with them, right? | |
| I ended up doing the most time, but they didn't get off scot-free. | ||
| I see. | ||
| You did do some time. | ||
| There's no question about that. | ||
| So you got these Transformers and you got them back to your, what, apartment? | ||
| Yeah, well, I was living in a house. | ||
| In a house, okay. | ||
| And how long did you have the Transformers before, you know, on the door? | ||
| Probably I'm going for memory, rough memory here. | ||
| I want to say like anywhere from four to six weeks, maybe. | ||
| Oh, four to six weeks. | ||
| Okay, so that's. | ||
| I remember taking them in January, then getting arrested, like at early, maybe in February, I think. | ||
| No, I got arrested January 29th. | ||
| Actually, it may have been December when I took those. | ||
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Well, that's long ago. | |
| I don't know the exact date. | ||
| Sure, that's fine. | ||
| I'm now interested in the time between when you got them to your house and you got arrested. | ||
| Were you able to actually fire one of them up? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, kind of sort of. | ||
| Basically, one of them I couldn't use with the rest of them because eventually I was going to basically wire them all together. | ||
| Well, I couldn't use anything. | ||
| So I might as well take the rest. | ||
| Basically, I got greedy. | ||
| Well, tell people, a transformer of this sort that goes on a pole typically converts 14,000, 15,000 volts. | ||
| It depends on what kind of pole it is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, that's why, I mean, that's the reason I couldn't use one of them, so I ended up converting it into a piggy bank. | ||
| Because it was an old one. | ||
| I mean, it was only rated at 2,400 volts. | ||
| They only had 2,400 volt lines in forever. | ||
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Yeah. | |
| It takes like 50 years. | ||
| So the one that you actually used was what? | ||
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Well, a bunch of them were 7,200 slash 12,470 Y. So you're basically using them backwards and then putting them in series. | |
| Yeah, what they do is step power line voltage down to 20, 2240 for your house. | ||
| Well, I was basically feeding it backwards, putting 240 in it, and getting 12,000 out of it. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And then going, I guess, so you use only one, or did you actually have them in? | ||
| Eventually, I was going to wire them. | ||
| Basically, the other, I was eventually going to use four of them and basically parallel the primaries and series the secondaries. | ||
| So you get like 50,000 volts out of it. | ||
| You never did that? | ||
| No, I ended up getting busted before that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But you did do, I guess you got to do one experiment, or some experiments with one transformer wired up? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| And well, basically, these days I know they use some sort of ballast or whatever because if you short it out without a ballast, it'll draw about 20 times what it's rated for. | ||
| So, yeah, and if it's a 25 KVA transformer, well, wait a minute. | ||
| I mean, no, that one was sitting in the limb room. | ||
| I was only using a 10 KVA was on the back porch at the time. | ||
| But without a ballast, 10 KVA times 200,000 watts. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Anyhow, when you draw that kind of power, you end up crashing a good-sized chunk of the grid. | ||
| I didn't crash it altogether, but I was browning out a good-sized chunk of the town. | ||
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Yeah, which they didn't pop you for, right? | |
| Believe it or not, that is not exactly what caught the basically, I mean, they knew something, what the heck's going on with a power grid. | ||
| That's what the local utility supervisor was going, wondering what the heck was happening. | ||
| But you didn't do jail time for that. | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, it was, yeah, I mean, it was for the theft. | ||
| It wasn't because I was basically making the power grid go nuts. | ||
| Okay, well, tell me, when you is and let's see, where to go? | ||
| Slow down, Art. | ||
| You obviously had to feed all that voltage and current to a new Jacobs ladder that you had put together, right? | ||
| Yeah, and I couldn't use closed-hanger wire for that because it didn't simply melt the wire. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it was at 12,000 volts at several amps. | ||
| Okay, so what are you using now for the ladder? | ||
| I think it was like half-inch metal rod. | ||
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So it was aluminum. | |
| So, yeah. | ||
| Good idea. | ||
| Okay, what about laser? | ||
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Did you still pirate with a laser? | |
| Well, that's another thing, too. | ||
| Basically, what I ended up doing is I ended up rebuilding the CD laser, I guess you could say. | ||
| Actually, what I did is I ended up starting another one, just got another CD player. | ||
| Yeah, they're cheap. | ||
| And what eventually I was going to do, it's like, oh, here's a CO2 laser tube that this guy had, and I was like, I was going to eventually save my money and buy that, but they're like $1,000, so I was going to take a while. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, all right, you fire this one up, and that's the point where you sort of denigrated the grid of the town. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, basically it was browning. | ||
| Browning out the town. | ||
| Yeah, well, not the whole town. | ||
| At first, I thought it was the whole town, but as many complaints I was hearing at work, it's like, hey, you got to, because I was basically all my co-workers were saying, hey, basically, you got to be careful about that. | ||
| My lights were going out. | ||
| And basically, those guys live like several blocks from me, so it wasn't like a local area. | ||
| Yeah, those kind of power outages are really bad. | ||
| The brownouts kind of can damage stuff. | ||
| Yeah, it was like, well, the 120 volt outlets was dropping down to 80 or 90. | ||
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So that's good. | |
| And they were asked, basically, the utility supervisor was going around town asking all the industrial people what they were doing. | ||
| Yeah, if they were doing any heavy welding or whatever. | ||
| The power company would know sort of the general area from which this problem was emanating. | ||
| Yeah, well, I mean, Stanbury is a small town at the time, if I remember right, it only had like 12, maybe not even 1,000 people in it. | ||
| So I only think they had a stoplight. | ||
| Certainly not after that experiment, anyway. | ||
| All right, so Mike, what happened with this bigger ladder? | ||
| Well, I mean, as far as making things disappear with it, I'm not sure. | ||
| I mean, I didn't really have to basically get a chance to do a lot with it before I ended up getting busted. | ||
| Oh, my. | ||
| But I did make a couch disappear, but that's the weird part is basically a catch disappeared, but I didn't see anybody. | ||
| I didn't toss in the couch, and the thing wasn't on at the time when it disappeared. | ||
| Well, what else could you possibly attribute a missing couch to? | ||
| Well, I mean, at the time it disappeared, I did have a few friends over, and basically, I mean, we had like a little party. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, basically, it's like, and at first I thought they were praying a prank on me because they knew about it at the time before the media caught wind of what I was doing, I only told like four or five of my closest friends about it. | ||
| All right, so how did you get busted? | ||
| Did they knock on the door suddenly? | ||
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I mean, how did this happen? | |
| Did somebody else get yourself? | ||
| What happened was basically a relative of a friend of mine, he's not exactly basically a genius. | ||
| He decided to take a BB gun and a friend of mine. | ||
| A friend of mine said, basically, loan me his BB gun or whatever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And, well, this other friend of, basically a relative of a friend of mine, basically had him over. | ||
| I can't remember what the heck he was there for. | ||
| But anyhow, long story short, he finds a BB gun and decides to shoot birds with it. | ||
| Thing is, though, when he was doing that, he wasn't thinking of what was behind the birds, and he ended up shooting a couple holes across and a neighbor's sliding glass door across the street. | ||
| So I got them calling in a vandalism, so I got the cops calling in vandalism, and that got him snooping around. | ||
| Well, did you call the cops? | ||
| No, it wasn't me. | ||
| It wasn't you. | ||
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All right, all right. | |
| It was the neighbor that basically ended up with a few BB holes in their glass door. | ||
| Yeah, I can imagine they would call the cops. | ||
| All right, pull tight, Mike. | ||
| Stay right where you are. | ||
| We've got a break. | ||
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We'll be back. | |
| While midnight sweeps across America, you've found an oasis for the mind to To call midnight in America. | ||
| 251-952-4. | ||
| That's 1-952-225-5278. | ||
| Do not call yet. | ||
|
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Repeat. | |
| Do not call yet. | ||
| Just rest and listen. | ||
| My guest is Mike Madman Markham. | ||
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Addressing the legend property. | |
| Mike, welcome back. | ||
| Thanks for having me right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So here we are: somebody with a BB gun committing vandalism. | ||
| Somebody calls the cops. | ||
| The cops come, look at the vandalism, and then how do they get you? | ||
| Well, these transformers, they're pretty big. | ||
| They're about the size of a trash can. | ||
| So they're kind of, I mean, I guess I don't know if the local utility already reported the transformer stolen or whatever, but not just everybody has a transformer, like a utility pole transformer sitting in their living room. | ||
| So they're probably wondering what the heck is going on here. | ||
| So they were able to look in. | ||
| What did they do? | ||
| Knock on your door? | ||
| They came in with a search warrant searching for a BB gun. | ||
| And I guess they were, well, that was actually, I think, if I remember right, the transformers were on the search warrant, too. | ||
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So what they were looking for. | |
| And, well, they made no effort to hide them. | ||
| I don't know where you'd put them. | ||
| I don't know where you'd put them anyway. | ||
| They're too big. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, so long story short, I basically got busted red-handed. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right, so in you go. | ||
| They sweat you, I'm sure, for your buddies' names and all that kind of stuff. | ||
| And then eventually you have a court date, right? | ||
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Yep. | |
| They ended up doing 60 days in jail and five years probation. | ||
| Five years probation. | ||
| And that brings another thing to mind. | ||
| Well, I mean, if it's a Class C felony, which just causes the value of them. | ||
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Yeah. | |
| Yeah, anyway, somehow, I remember your parole officer actually called my show. | ||
| Yeah, it was actually the arresting officer, Tom, what is his name? | ||
| I can't remember. | ||
| He's actually a good guy. | ||
| So, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, yeah, I mean, it's a small town. | ||
| Everybody knew everybody long before all this went down. | ||
| Okay, well, so he's part of the legend now. | ||
| Yeah, and I didn't, yeah, it's like I didn't make basically a resist arrest, and basically we didn't hold, we don't hold, he was just doing his job, so I don't hold a grudge against him. | ||
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Yeah. | |
| So the power company gets their transformers back. | ||
| You go away for 60 days. | ||
| That must have screwed up your life, but good. | ||
| Because by then, I don't know, you probably don't have a job anymore. | ||
| Yeah, my former employer thought I contaminated his plant with PCB, so that's, I don't think he wanted me to come back after that. | ||
| All right, so that's the early Madman story. | ||
| And I, of course, I thought, and I called you Madman because I was convinced you were going to absolutely fry yourself alive and turn into a french fry. | ||
| There are other people who have been involved in time travel, Mike, that I've had on the show. | ||
| And honest to God, Mike, they're gone. | ||
| I don't know where they are, whether it's Teeter or Anderson, others that we've had on the show, they're gone. | ||
| I mean, they're gone. | ||
| Can't find them. | ||
| Anyway, so we need to come up to date from the story back then. | ||
| I know that after I did the show with you, you gave out your phone number and address and stuff on the air, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And by the way, that was you. | ||
| You volunteered to do that, remember? | ||
| Yeah, yep. | ||
| I didn't make you do that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Yeah, I figured out what bad could happen. | ||
| Now you know. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| And good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, it was good enough. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And so at this point, you're out of jail. | ||
| You want to build something even bigger and better. | ||
| And there was a good aspect of your being on the show. | ||
| I mean, you got donations. | ||
| You got money from people and help from people. | ||
| I believe you've got some Transformers, right? | ||
| Yeah, Transformer Lamination, so I could build my own. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Right. | ||
| That's a lot of help, actually. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, actually, I got some money out of it, but most of it was actually equipment. | ||
| And I believe somehow you also came up with a warehouse. | ||
| Yeah, that was the beauty of it. | ||
| Basically, this guy said, well, you pay the young electric bill, but basically right now it's empty. | ||
| You can do what you want here for a few months. | ||
| So it's like, okay, cool. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks. | |
| Were you yet re-employed at that point? | ||
| Yeah, I can't remember the name of the place, but yes, I did have a job. | ||
| When I got out of jail, I ended up, well, I was kind of prying Stanbury. | ||
| Why were you employed? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, it's a small town. | |
| There's not that many jobs there to begin with, so I ended up moving to St. Joseph when I got out of jail. | ||
| Well, you know, I would think after the show, you would have been almost a hero in town. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But you saved the rely on. | |
| Basically, not everybody is like, oh, he's the nutcase to build the time machine. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So you were now at a new location, and now you've got a warehouse, and you've got enough money to be dangerous. | ||
| So you, at this point, start building what? | ||
| Well, long story short, I realized that actually I did a lot of thinking when I was in jail of what could cause this. | ||
| I mean, 60 days in jail, that gives me a lot of time to think. | ||
|
unidentified
|
does. | |
| So I ended up basically, long story short, I realized that it would be more efficient if I used magnetic... | ||
| So I figured, okay, maybe it'll be more efficient if I use, instead of using basically heat from a laser in a cold room, the differential, the temperature difference between those two to stir the plasma, maybe even more efficient if I use the magnetic field to stir it. | ||
| So That's what I ended up doing. | ||
| Use the magnetic field to do what? | ||
| Basically, it's well, in simple terms, this thing looks like a plasma tornado. | ||
| How do you form a plasma tornado? | ||
| Well, basically, this thing looks like, well, I think on your second, when I told you about this during the second interview, like back in late 96, early 97, I can't remember when it was. | ||
| Basically, it looks like you called it a Stargate. | ||
| It's not really, well, it doesn't exactly look like Stargate SG-1, because for one, it's vertical instead of horizontal. | ||
| Okay, but again, what formed it? | ||
| Well, what I ended up using was a bunch of cascaded transformers. | ||
| Cascaded transformers. | ||
| So how much at that point, how much voltage were you producing? | ||
| 3 million volts at 1 amp. | ||
| There was 24 phases. | ||
| 3 million volts at an amp. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Good God. | ||
| That's enough. | ||
| Yeah, that was basically big spark. | ||
| And you were pulling this from the power company. | ||
| This time, I presume. | ||
| Not all of it from the power company. | ||
| Basically, I had generators, too. | ||
| Basically, I was trying to avoid raising the stink with the utility. | ||
| So I learned from that, too. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay, so you built a large Jacobs ladder. | ||
| I mean, this time, how big? | ||
| Well, at this point, it wasn't really a purpose Jacobs ladder. | ||
| Basically, what it was was basically two cylinders, one cylinder inside the other. | ||
| Right. | ||
| With a magnetic, with another, basically a circle of magnetic electromagnets around it, stirring it. | ||
| So basically, you got a bunch of plasma inside of it with a magnetic field rotating it. | ||
| You know, what you are describing, I'm sure you've heard stories of the Philadelphia experiment, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, they described a similar electronic setup with regard to the rotating magnetic fields. | ||
| Is this where, I mean, did you get any of that story? | ||
| I mean, is that where some of your idea came from? | ||
| Not directly. | ||
| I mean, I've heard of it, basically, but I didn't know. | ||
| I knew they used RF. | ||
| Well, basically, I was at the other side of the spectrum. | ||
| I was using low frequencies. | ||
| So, in the plasma, it wasn't just like from my original Jackets ladder. | ||
| It was just plain old 60 hertz sine wave PC that you get from any outlet. | ||
| Well, this was I was using square waves where I could actually, it was easy controlling the duty cycle as easy to control the voltage that way. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, because you can't really find, it's hard to find Variacs rated at megawatts. | ||
| Man, I'll tell you, if you're using square waves, I bet the ham operators heard you for miles. | ||
| Well, that was the beauty of the warehouse. | ||
| It was metal, so it acted as a third aid cage. | ||
| Okay, did you wind all these electromagnets yourself? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So you must have been like in that warehouse every day, every day, every day working? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, basically, technically I lived in St. Joseph, Missouri, but the warehouse itself, if I remember right, was in Overland Park, Kansas, which is basically a suburb of Kansas City. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| So, yeah, and now it's a long commute, so most of the time I just hang out. | ||
| I just hung out at the warehouse. | ||
| Most of the time, I just ate and slept at the warehouse. | ||
| Right, got it. | ||
| Three million volts at an amp. | ||
| So you've got these rotating magnetic fields, and then you've got, you said, a cylinder inside a cylinder. | ||
| Yeah, instead of just two metal rods with a spark in between, basically, at any one time, there's actually 23 sparks because it's actually each one of those 3 million volts. | ||
| There are 15 degrees out of it. | ||
| There's 24 phases, 15 degrees out of phase. | ||
| It's like three-phase industrial power, 20 degrees out of phase for that. | ||
| Well, this is like 24 phases, 15 degrees for each other. | ||
| Okay, so two of these separated in a Jacobs-like ladder configuration, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And then these rotating magnetic fields. | ||
| By now, you're using a lot of power. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Lot of power. | |
| Yeah, I mean, basically, I couldn't. | ||
| I mean, the warehouse had, if I remember right, the warehouse had 400 amp three-phase 480 available, but even that couldn't do it all by itself. | ||
| Didn't you at some point think, look, what I'm working with here is not just a little dangerous, it's kill-me-dead dangerous. | ||
| Oh, yeah, I mean, it only takes 50 to 100 milliamps to kill you, and this is an amp. | ||
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| And it only takes a million, and with that kind of current, it only takes maybe a couple thousand volts to get that kind of current flowing through you, and this is 3 million. | ||
| Oh, yeah, I think in the electric chair, it's like 2,500 volts, something like that. | ||
| This is 3 million volts at an amp. | ||
| All right, so it took you how long to build this thing to the point where you were ready to test? | ||
| Oh, geez, I would say probably 18 months, I guess. | ||
| 18 months. | ||
| Yeah, well, yeah, but basically the guy that owned the warehouse, he originally, he, well, the deal was like maybe three months or so, and it ends up he kept us like, well, this is pretty cool. | ||
| Okay, I'll go ahead and let you stay a little longer. | ||
| Go ahead and stay a little longer. | ||
| So he actually came and checked out your act? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| I mean, I figured, well, he's nice enough to let me live on the warehouse. | ||
| I'd basically let him watch too. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| Did he want to see the big test? | ||
| Well, yeah, I mean, him and basically everybody that donated stuff, I more or less let them in on the project. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Wow. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So I remember talking to you. | |
| All together, I think there was like 25, maybe 30 people. | ||
| For the big test. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I really wanted to come out there myself. | ||
| And I've got to be honest with you, Mike. | ||
| I thought you were dead for a long time. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I bet the people that donated too, once I didn't end up disappearing, but we're getting ahead of ourselves with that. | ||
| We are a little bit. | ||
| But honestly, I thought you were dead. | ||
| I thought you were gone. | ||
| was pretty sure you'd fried yourself or that you had been Anyway, let's continue. | ||
| So the big test comes. | ||
| All these people are watching. | ||
| You fire the generators up. | ||
| You've got the incoming power. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And what was your test going to be? | |
| Well, at first I was tossing basically hamsters and guinea pigs in it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Living in Tanks. | ||
| Small tanks before. | ||
| I'm not just going to. | ||
| Infinite risk tolerance. | ||
| Well, anyway, okay, so hamsters and guinea pigs, how did they fare? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, what happened to them? | |
| Well, basically, instead of basically like the original experiment where I made a screw disappear for half a second, well, these guinea pigs, they were disappearing for anywhere from one to two minutes, and they were basically either between 50 and 150 yards east-west of where they disappeared. | ||
| East or west of the point of disappearance, but not north or south? | ||
| Nope. | ||
| And basically, as far as why I'm thinking has something to do with the Earth's magnetic field, that's the only thing I can think of. | ||
| Well, that's interesting. | ||
| And they would show up how far away from the test point? | ||
| Between 50 and 150 yards. | ||
| So people had to go out and hunt for these things? | ||
| Yeah, pretty much. | ||
| That's like, okay, this disappeared. | ||
| Let's see where it showed up at. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, at first, it was just what I did is I did some low-power tests and basically made it disappear farther and farther away. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So. | |
| And yeah, but you had witnesses. | ||
| As I expect, basically, the further away it was, the harder it was to find them. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But, I mean, you had witnesses at that point. | ||
| Or not. | ||
| Yes, you did. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, and I was actually getting video. | ||
| They saw this stuff. | ||
| So you have that video? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, that's what sucks. | |
| We'll get to that part eventually. | ||
| All right, anyway, you were getting video of it, and you were tossing these animals through. | ||
| How big was this thing at this point? | ||
| Oh, it was basically going from memory. | ||
| I would say about the outer diameter of it was about 17 feet, maybe 15 feet tall. | ||
| Really? | ||
| 35 feet off the ground. | ||
| Basically, well, 3 million volts is difficult to insulate. | ||
| Now, basically having the 20... | ||
| But in reference to ground, it's still 3 million volts. | ||
| And 3 million volts will jump 27 feet. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| So 35 feet, you say, above? | ||
| Yeah, it was raised. | ||
| The whole contraption where, well, the hot part of it was 35 feet off the floor. | ||
| And the thing itself was 15, basically from the bottom of it to the top of it was about 15 feet. | ||
| So these people, and you could observe these animals disappearing and then find them. | ||
| And when you found them, were they intact? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, they were perfectly fine as far as I could tell. | ||
| I mean, obviously, they can't talk and report me and tell me how they feel or anything. | ||
| But as far as, like, physical condition, they were fine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
At that point, Mike, you've got to... | |
| I mean, what we're doing with these animals at this point is what? | ||
| They disappear, they reappear elsewhere. | ||
| So did they travel in time? | ||
| They certainly traveled in space, and they certainly disappeared. | ||
| So at this point, what are we talking about? | ||
| Well, at first I didn't know if it was a seance of it. | ||
| Basically, sometimes it took hours to find these things. | ||
| And I don't know if that was because they were gone for hours, and either we just happened to now find them, or basically we just found them, they were basically, or they were gone that whole time. | ||
| Hand his hand, right? | ||
| I mean, the smaller scale stuff, what was happening, basically they were basically disappeared and then they reappear again. | ||
| Right, so it's hard to tell if they ran from where they appeared outside. | ||
| Well, I mean, with the inanimate objects, basically basically at first I was trying basically things like baseballs, fruit, stuff like that. | ||
| And the same thing happened to the inanimate objects? | ||
| They showed up. | ||
| Obviously, that stuff's not going to run. | ||
| No, but where did it show up? | ||
| Same plate. | ||
| I mean, the small-scale, the low-power test, basically anywhere from a few feet to a few yards from where they disappeared. | ||
| So the higher the voltage and power, the further away they would go? | ||
| Yeah, well, I mean, keep in mind, plus, well, that's another thing I was trying to figure out is what exactly controls where this stuff shows up at. | ||
| Was it the voltage or the power or was it the speed of the rotating magnetic field or what? | ||
| All right, and that's where we're going to leave it. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I'm beginning to learn new things now. | ||
| I was sort of caught Up to a point, but there is much more to come. | ||
| Mike Madman Markham is my guest. | ||
| I believe he's achieved time travel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The day when you first came my way I said no one could take your face | |
| To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your Valanges and call 1-952-225-5278. | ||
| That's 1-952-Call Arts. | ||
| Hold your calls. | ||
| Hold your calls. | ||
| Everybody, Mike Madman Markham, is my guest. | ||
| And we have now covered the early years, I guess is really the way to put it. | ||
| So, Mike, welcome back. | ||
| Somebody asks a question. | ||
| It goes back, Otis wanting to know, how do BB gunshots warrant a search warrant? | ||
| Well, remember, on that search warrant also were the Transformers, which means either they knew ahead of time. | ||
| Did you ever find out, Mike? | ||
| Did they know ahead of time, or did they go over there and say, ooh, look at that. | ||
| Let's go get a search warrant. | ||
| Well, yeah, this is just a guess. | ||
| But my guess is that the guy that got busted for the BB thing, he more or less spilled the beans on me so he could get a lighter sentence or something. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| That's what my guess is. | ||
| I never have figured out exactly what happened, though. | ||
| All right, do me a favor and back about an inch away from the phone. | ||
| It's really a good connection, actually. | ||
| Okay, can you hear me now? | ||
| I can. | ||
| I hear you fine. | ||
| It just eliminates the popping. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So now here we are. | ||
| You're experimenting with animals. | ||
| They're turning up elsewhere. | ||
| They're disappearing and then turning up elsewhere. | ||
| So you've got to sit down and start. | ||
| I'm sure you were asking yourself, okay, so what the hell's happening here? | ||
| What am I doing to these creatures? | ||
| Obviously, they're okay, but is it time travel? | ||
| Is it just shifting? | ||
| Is it disappearance and shifting of location? | ||
| Or I mean, you had to begin to wonder about the theory of what was going on. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, the low power tests, they were actually, well, they weren't just stopping once it would disappear in the center of the tornado and reappear nearby right away. | ||
| Sometimes they would disappear for a minute, sometimes two minutes. | ||
| Well, when did you begin considering? | ||
| I remember interviewing you, and you were considering yourself. | ||
| You were considering trying this thing yourself. | ||
| And that's what I last remember, and that's why I thought you were dead. | ||
| You know, I mean, well, I mean, I got pretty confident. | ||
| I mean, I got pretty bold and confident after so many successful tests. | ||
| There was one test where I tried a grapefruit or an orange. | ||
| I can't remember what it was. | ||
| It was something similar to that, some citrus fruit. | ||
| And that was never retrieved, so I don't know if it ended up in space, disintegrated or what. | ||
| But I tossed, if I remember right, I tossed in like 200 objects, animals, altogether, there was like 200 some odd tests. | ||
| Boy, that warehouse unretrieved objects. | ||
| That warehouse must have smelled like ozone. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| Basically, there's, well, in the roof, if I remember right, or near the top of the roof, there was like ventilation fans. | ||
| And yeah, we had to keep those running to keep from poisoning everybody with nitrous oxide. | ||
| All right, so now take me forward as you will, because I kind of don't know what happened next. | ||
| I thought you were going to jump into this thing, and I thought you were going to fry alive, and that's like the last thing I remember. | ||
| Well, basically, eventually, I ended up testing it all myself, because like I said earlier, basically hamsters and guinea pigs can't talk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No, you had to give an awful lot of thought before trying it yourself. | ||
| I mean, for one thing, a hamster or a guinea pig is really small compared to a human. | ||
| Well, that's a concern because the inside damner of this thing is only like five feet across. | ||
| So if I and keep in mind, the top of this thing is like 50 feet off the ground. | ||
| So and, well, if it doesn't work, if I jump in and it doesn't work, I'll probably break my legs or my neck. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So there's so many points of failure. | ||
| You could jump through and keep going and, as you point out, hit the floor and break probably your neck and be dead. | ||
| Or you could jump through. | ||
| Part of you would touch the wrong thing. | ||
| And what would have happened to you if you'd done that? | ||
| Well, that's most of the, as far as the electricity goes, most of it, I wasn't about to test the theory and find out, but the inner electrode, I guess you could say, was grounded. | ||
| But, well, usually if you touch a grounded object with that kind of voltage, you're going to get a piece. | ||
| You won't necessarily get the whole 3,000, one, basically 3 megawatts, but you'll still get a piece of them, probably enough to kill you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| So you climbed up, and I can't even imagine. | ||
| I mean, you had everything turned on, humming like crazy, I'm sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| And you probably... | ||
| A cherry picker. | ||
| A cherry picker. | ||
| So here you are on a cherry picker, and you've got to figure out how to jump out of the cherry picker and through. | ||
| Yep, and I ended up just crawling on top of the bucket. | ||
| And how long did you sit there and think about it before you jumped? | ||
| Well, that's the thing I figured if I think about it too long, I'm going to check it out here. | ||
| I mean, normally, like at the t like I said, I had almost infinite risk tolerance at the time. | ||
| I mean, somebody dared me to do something no matter what it was, I'd probably do it. | ||
| So I mean, a lot of 20-year-olds are like that. | ||
| They are. | ||
| And a lot of them never make 30. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But ended up, I don't know, I guess I thought of it about a minute or two. | ||
| Basically, I made sure the camera is ready. | ||
| Because like I said, if I would have thought about it too much, I would have said, okay, this is dumb. | ||
| I'm not doing it. | ||
| Well, why not, I mean, this is an obvious question to me. | ||
| I would have some kind of cushioning, you know, like they do with stunt men where they have cardboard boxes and other stuff so that if you did hit the floor, you might live. | ||
| Well, keep in mind, the only thing, the insulating the bottom of this was there. | ||
| If I stuck anything below, there's between the bottom of that thing and the floor is basically 3 million volts trying to get the ground. | ||
| They basically burn anything you put underneath it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, that's right. | |
| Well, even with 35 feet of distance, you get a lot of corona. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Well, 35 feet is definitely enough to kill you if you land the wrong way and probably kill you no matter what. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| All right. | ||
| So you climb up on the bucket and you jump. | ||
| And then what? | ||
| Well, long story short, it feels like I got hit with a flashbang and I wake up and I'm 800 miles east of there and two years later. | ||
| So that's basically, there ain't no other way to put it. | ||
| 800 miles east and two years gone. | ||
| Yeah, well, basically what I did, I then cranked back, I'm more or less, well, it's not very scientific in hindsight, but what I did is cranked everything basically to the max. | ||
| So because I wanted to make sure that it actually leaped rather than hit the floor. | ||
| when you woke up did you have memory of what you had done I mean what condition were you in That EMF and all that magnetism basically messed with my brain. | ||
| I'm sure it would. | ||
| I believe, like other mammals, we have magnetite, don't we? | ||
| In our brains? | ||
| Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's basically your brain's electrochemical. | ||
| So basically, yeah, magnets will mess with electric fields. | ||
| So how could you possibly have gone 200 miles and it was east, you say? | ||
| Yeah, well, yeah, this was in Oberlin Park, Kansas. | ||
| And I ended up, well, the nearest town I landed near was like Fairfield, Ohio. | ||
| You can Google map that. | ||
| That's basically roughly 800 miles east. | ||
|
unidentified
|
800 miles. | |
| It took me quite a while to figure out basically to remember what the heck I did, and then I figure out, okay, where the heck am I? | ||
| And where were you? | ||
| I mean, when you woke up, were you on the ground? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Were you in the middle of the shopping zone? | |
| Basically in the middle of a field. | ||
| Oh, that's actually at least lucky, I guess. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Middle of a field. | |
| Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it rides the Earth's gravitational field, so I don't want to end up in space. | ||
| Which was basically one of my other concerns if I tried to leap too far. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| Oh, my goodness. | ||
| So here you are coming. | ||
| Your clothes were okay. | ||
| You were okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You were stunned. | |
| Yeah, I mean, I was saying you okay, basically, I didn't, yeah, I wasn't on fire. | ||
| Other than basically my nervous system all screwed up. | ||
| It was basically the equivalent of getting hit with a flashbang for, I'd say, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour. | ||
| I mean, basically, for a minute, I couldn't even remember my own name. | ||
| For a minute. | ||
| I get that. | ||
| Okay, that's shock. | ||
| You were in shock, clearly. | ||
| How quickly did your memory begin to come back? | ||
| I would say probably an hour. | ||
| It took me probably an hour or so to get my bearings. | ||
| And it's like, okay, I mean, in 1995, I don't remember if they had GPS or not. | ||
| I know, actually, this is 9. | ||
| Well, okay, that's another thing, too. | ||
| Basically, I did this in 1998, and on the other side, when I landed in Ohio, that was 2000. | ||
| 2000. | ||
| Yeah, so basically, not only did I jump 800 miles, but I skipped over two years, too. | ||
| So actually, a little over two years. | ||
| This is all the time I thought you were dead. | ||
| From everybody else's point of view, for two years, I didn't exist. | ||
| I mean, if you basically do a Social Security search on me, for two years, they won't be a peep. | ||
| Oh, I believe it. | ||
| Trust me, I believe it. | ||
| I searched for you. | ||
| I looked for you, and you did not exist. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| So where to pick up on the story? | ||
| All right, so now you're slowly beginning to remember, but at this point, you don't have a home. | ||
| You're, what, 800 miles away from where you ought to be or where you started. | ||
| And as your memory slowly comes back, I mean, what do you do? | ||
| Do you go up to somebody's door, knock on the door, or wander into a town? | ||
| Or what? | ||
| Yeah, eventually, well, it's like, okay, well, I just, well, it's in the middle of a field. | ||
| I figured, okay, just maintain one direction. | ||
| Eventually, you'll hit a road. | ||
| Well, at least if I get a road, I'll have some idea where I am. | ||
| And basically, long story short, I ended up meandering my way to Fairfield, which is, well, it's not exactly a small town. | ||
| It's just north of Cincinnati. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You end up basically from Fairfield. | ||
| It's like, okay, I know where I am now. | ||
| And long story short, I ended up going from Fairfield to a homeless shelter because, keep in mind, well, after a few hours, it's like, okay, I remember my name now. | ||
| Madman, did your ID, I mean, like, did you have your wallet with you? | ||
| I presume you probably removed any metallic objects before you jumped, I would hope. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, which included my ID, my credit cards, and all that. | ||
| So, because it went with these magnetic fields, they would have been erased anyway. | ||
| So you didn't even have ID on you? | ||
| Nope, I had to go to the DM. | ||
| Basically, eventually, once I remember my name, I mean, after a couple days, I remember my social security number, so I had to go to the DMB and get another one. | ||
| Holy close. | ||
| So here you are utterly homeless without ID. | ||
| You slowly begin to get ID again. | ||
| You're staying in a homeless shelter, and you have no memories of those years. | ||
| No, I mean, basically, I mean, it's weird. | ||
| Basically, it erased. | ||
| I mean, I could still remember old memories, but basically the newer stuff, like from the previous five years or whatever, I couldn't remember squats. | ||
| So other than Bail, like I said, for a while, I couldn't even remember my name, but eventually I got that back. | ||
| And actually, as a first thing, I got back, and then I remembered, okay, it started coming back to me. | ||
| So weird. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Hold tight, Mike. | ||
| Short break. | ||
| Mike Madman Markham is my guest. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This man has traveled in time? | |
| Get it, give us in the top. | ||
| Get the rain and in the top. | ||
| Meantime. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Now they're river, you're stopping your home. | |
| Everything. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| All I got to say. | ||
| All I got to say is make it away. | ||
| Wanna take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest. | ||
| This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network. | ||
| To call the show, dial 1-952-CAL ART. | ||
| That's 1-952-225-5278. | ||
| Respectively. | ||
| 18 to 20 years later, this is Mike, Madman Markham. | ||
| All right, Mike. | ||
| This is such an incredible story. | ||
| And I really do, again, I want to add myself that I searched so hard for you, and you were just gone. | ||
| You know, that was, well, that's basically another weird thing, too. | ||
| Sometimes, you know, I'm sure everybody's Googled their own name before, but yeah, I guess there's probably hundreds of other people looking for me, too. | ||
| Yes, yes. | ||
| When you were picking yourself up off the ground, Dale, I get these computer messages and they're helpful, wants to know, did you need a shave? | ||
| No, I mean, from my point of view, it only took, I was only gone a couple of seconds, I think. | ||
| I mean, I got hit. | ||
| The closest approximation I can think of is as far as experiencing this myself. | ||
| I mean, it felt like I got hit with a flashbang. | ||
| That's the closest approximation of it. | ||
| Yeah, fair enough. | ||
| But, I mean, you know, a lot would have changed if your body had actually spent a linear two years. | ||
| You'd be shaggy. | ||
| You'd have a long beard. | ||
| You'd have long fingernails. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. | ||
| From my point of view, it only took a couple seconds. | ||
| Okay, so when did you first learn, oh my God, it's the year 2000? | ||
| homeless shelter. | ||
| Long story short, I ended up at a You told me you went there, yes. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, yeah, eventually I made myself to a homeless shelter in Cincinnati, and, well, every day you get a newspaper. | ||
| They get a newspaper there, and it's like, wait a minute, this is 2000. | ||
| So at this point, you've got to either figure – Because otherwise, the things I just talked about would have been true. | ||
| You would have been shaggy. | ||
| You would have had giant long fingernails. | ||
| And so you did travel in time. | ||
| And when did that hit you? | ||
| That, my God, I really did it? | ||
| It took actually, I was in, when I seen that, well, the time travel movies don't really, basically, they don't really depict it accurately, like the reactions of people when they realize they've done that. | ||
| So, I mean, I was in shock for a while. | ||
| Well, you know, movies need a little romance and drama and stuff like that. | ||
| So you have to expect they're going to mess with things. | ||
| But it must have dawned on you that, my God, I actually did it. | ||
| I traveled in time. | ||
| And then I guess, so you began to establish yourself? | ||
| You got an idea again? | ||
| Did you get a job? | ||
| Did you stay in the area? | ||
| I got a few, I had a few, basically got a few temporary jobs. | ||
| Eventually, I got most of my memory back. | ||
| I mean, even today, there's still holes in it. | ||
| So long story short, I ended up taking a, basically getting a few temp jobs and saving up my money and ended up going back, basically catching a Greyhound back there. | ||
| So you take a Greyhound home. | ||
| I'm sure you want to go back to the warehouse and see what's what, right? | ||
| Yep, and I'll go back there and basically go back there and it's gone, basically everything. | ||
| You don't mean the warehouse? | ||
| Well, no, the warehouse, no, keep in mind, okay, basically this was back in 2000, like 15 years ago, so I go back there and I mean the warehouse is there, But it's basically all my stuff inside is gone. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Gone? | |
| That's a lot of stuff to be gone. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, well, two years, I mean, this is all that's plenty of time for, I don't know what happened to it. | ||
| I don't know because basically I was going to try to hunt down all my donors. | ||
| And basically, well, that's another thing, too. | ||
| I couldn't remember the people that donated. | ||
| And a lot of people did, I guess, donate, huh? | ||
| Yeah, like I said, probably 25 or 30 people. | ||
| All right, so here you are. | ||
| You're back at the warehouse, and it's empty. | ||
| All your stuff is gone. | ||
| And I'm wondering, okay, what happened to it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| And basically I was gone, like, trying to fill in the past two years of what happened, and with everything, to oldern't plan it. | ||
| Yeah, I have to sit down and read the New York Times or something, I suppose. | ||
| Anyway, did you contact the owner of the warehouse to try to find out what had occurred? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Or what next? | |
| Well, that's the thing. | ||
| I couldn't remember the guy's name. | ||
| So we're not going to reveal where you are now. | ||
| We're just saying you're in a secret, secreted-away location, which happens to be really true. | ||
| My producer got you to a special place for this interview tonight, right? | ||
| Don't say where it is. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I kind of want to keep that to myself. | ||
| Like I said, live and learn. | ||
| Yes, live and learn, indeed. | ||
| So what is ahead for Madman now? | ||
| Well, basically, eventually I'm going to try to rebuild that thing and test and see. | ||
| Basically, I don't know if I want to do that again or not. | ||
| Like I said, that kind of messed with my head. | ||
| If you build again, and I have this really strong feeling that you will, would you build to an even larger scale? | ||
| Would you, in other words, attempt to prove to the scientific community what you say is true, or what would your objective be if you build again? | ||
| Well, that was basically, keep in mind, when everything, when I said everything's gone, even my documentation for this thing, I don't know what happened to it. | ||
| So, which kind of, I mean, even the time machine itself, even if I still had all my notes and stuff, basically I could say, okay, basically I could give it to the world, say, here's what I did, repeat it. | ||
| So, I mean, if you can't repeat it, the whole thing is kind of useless. | ||
| Well, not really. | ||
| Not useless, but it would be wonderful to be able to document this. | ||
| There have been some physicists, theoretical physicists, for example, that commented in the article that we have up on the website about you and about everything that occurred. | ||
| And they didn't feel like you traveled in time, but they didn't know what happened on the other hand either. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, yeah, well, they brought up that, well, if this is true, then why don't they create vortexes with every lightning strike? | ||
| So the thing is, though. | ||
| Yeah, but that's not fair. | ||
| That's not fair. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, you can't really stir a lightning strike. | ||
| It's there and gone quick. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| That's exactly right. | ||
| But your magnetic fields could essentially stir it. | ||
| And you were almost soup or fried chicken. | ||
| Yeah, well, that's the thing about it. | ||
| I didn't even have one single RF burn mark or anything on me. | ||
| So, I mean, the magnetic fields mess with my brain, but other than that. | ||
| Do you remember enough of your system that if you wanted to rebuild it now, you could? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's not 100%, but I would say probably between 90 and 95%. | ||
| So the rest I could basically do the trial and error thing and figure it out again. | ||
| So right now is, I mean, keep in mind, this thing probably costs several million dollars. | ||
| So if I actually had to pay cash for everything. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Mike, do you think that time travel in either direction is possible or only forward? | ||
| Well, here's the thing. | ||
| From my previous experiments of going in reverse, because at first it's like I tried to hold the portal open, so to speak, and basically that way I can walk through and then basically walk back, come back to where I started again. | ||
| Well, every time I've tried that, I've crashed the power grid. | ||
| It takes way too much energy. | ||
| Basically, I agree with all the other physicists as far as that goes. | ||
| Basically, backwards time travel. | ||
| Well, let's put it this way. | ||
| Basically, time travel does not work the way Hollywood depicts it. | ||
| Oh, I've got that. | ||
| I mean, yeah, you can basically go backwards in time, but not to any point you pick. | ||
| I mean, basically, I was like, oh, cool, I want to go see Christ's crucifixion. | ||
| Well, unless you build a time machine at 04 BC or whatever, actually 33 AD or whatever, unless you actually build the machine at that time and have it powered up at that time, you can't return to that time. | ||
| So if I build the machine, long story short, if I have the machine powered up tomorrow, I can't come back to the day. | ||
| So those two years, it's like they just don't exist for you, which means that you did not age during those two years. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, long story short, I mean, as far as the time travel aspect of it is, it basically works the same way as general or basically relativity. | ||
| All your long stories are, I'm noticing, short. | ||
| So we've got a good long show. | ||
| Not that long, so you can make long stories medium. | ||
| That'd be all right. | ||
| All right, hold tight. | ||
| Mike Madman Markham is my guest. | ||
| 18 to 20 years. | ||
| That's a two-year difference between our interviews. | ||
| Two years, the man was gone. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good night in the deserts and the world. | |
| To call us from outside the U.S. and Canada only, use Skype with a headset mic if on a computer and call MITD55. | ||
| That's MITD55. | ||
| All right, so what we're going to do is open the lines. | ||
| Well, actually, let me note two things. | ||
| Number one, I am now on Periscope. | ||
| I promise that. | ||
| And frequently on Fridays, we do sort of a Periscope session. | ||
| So hello there, if you're watching. | ||
| Generally, seeing the back of my head can't be very exciting. | ||
| But you can see the show kind of in motion from that angle. | ||
| So I set it up that way rather than facing me and my ugly mug. | ||
| No point in that. | ||
| So we have classic stuff here. | ||
| Mike Madman Markham. | ||
| You have now heard his story, I think, to date. | ||
| I'm sure there is much more to say. | ||
| For example, Mike, here's a question. | ||
| Somebody wants to know, why, for example, weren't the police there or somebody to stop you from jumping through? | ||
| They had to know that you were building up to it, right? | ||
| Well, that's the thing. | ||
| I kind of, after all the publicity, I basically, the only people that knew about it is the people that donated. | ||
| So I never told anybody else. | ||
| Not the people at work, nobody. | ||
| Well, that really does make sense to me because somebody surely would have stopped you, right? | ||
| I don't know if they would have or not. | ||
| I mean, technically, it'd be kind of hard to prove it was a suicide attempt. | ||
| I mean, it went when it exactly wasn't. | ||
| They might have looked at that equipment and figured out it was going to be a suicide, no matter what. | ||
| Hold on one sec, Mike. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So phone lines are open, folks. | ||
| Here it is. | ||
| Finally, they're open. | ||
| You can ask questions if you would like. | ||
| And I'm sure you have questions as a man who's traveled in time. | ||
| Area code 952-225-5278. | ||
| Put a one in front of that. | ||
| 1-952-225-5278. | ||
| If you're calling on Skype, MITD51 or outside North America, MITD55. | ||
| They probably would have, I think Mad Man figured you were going to do yourself in and they, you know, somebody would have stopped you, I'm sure. | ||
| Well, nobody did. | ||
| Nobody did, as it turns out. | ||
| But having a lot of people. | ||
| If you check out, I mean, there's plenty of YouTube videos where everybody, I mean, they actually have suicide videos on YouTube. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, yeah. | ||
| I mean, there's just about everything on YouTube. | ||
| I mean, if you look hard enough, but there's all sorts of weird things on YouTube, including that stuff. | ||
| And including some guys standing on top of electric trains, basically just reaching up and grabbing the 25,000 volts of power of the train. | ||
| And when you do that, it's absolutely like a bug. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Somebody wants to know because there was a rumor, Mike, that you did an experiment with a cat. | ||
| Is that true or not? | ||
| No, I don't know where that came from. | ||
| Probably somebody probably made that up due to a lack of information because after the first round of publicity, I more or less made up my mind. | ||
| It's like, oh, God, I can't stand being a celebrity. | ||
| Yeah, you don't. | ||
| I know you don't seek out fame. | ||
| I'm very well aware that you don't seek out fame, Mike. | ||
| And so it's an honor to have you on the show. | ||
| Yeah, not everybody, I mean, like every Hollywood actress or actor, actress, whatever, I mean, not all of them basically like the limelights. | ||
| So I kind of like compare myself to Jody Foster. | ||
| I mean, I don't mind basically every now and then, but as far as people knocking on my door 24-7, it's really, I mean, it really, to me, it's disconcerting having somebody I don't know run up to me and ask for my autographs. | ||
| I know the feeling. | ||
| Go to restaurants and people want to. | ||
| Anyway, listen, Mike, people want to know if you were to do this again, I mean, let's think about it for a second, you could conceivably hop scotch into the future again and again and again. | ||
| Maybe you could figure out a way to do it with less trauma to your own person, and, you know, you would still be a young man in the year 20, whatever you want. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, like I said, the problem is it's a one-way trip. | ||
| I mean, it's like the same thing as using relativity. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Well, it is a one-way trip. | ||
| Well, that's the advantage of, I mean, everybody, it's already been scientifically proven you can use gravity to dilate time. | ||
| Well, basically, I'm using electromagnetism, which is 10 to the 30th times stronger. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I don't need basically a black hole to do this. | ||
| You know, they're getting ready to try to create a black hole at CERN. | ||
| You have any thoughts on what might happen when they do? | ||
| Well, they're going to be basically I'm with everybody else as far as all the other physicists, as far as that goes. | ||
| They'll be so small they'll evaporate almost immediately. | ||
| I hope you're right. | ||
| I really hope that's what happens. | ||
| Well, I mean, if not, it'll swallow the Earth at nearly the speed of light, and we won't even see it coming. | ||
| Yeah, it'll be over like that. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On Skype, you are on the air with Madman. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I think it's somebody named Torch. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, how's it going, Art? | |
| Welcome back. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I wanted to ask the key thing that you really need the most is funding, right? | |
| Funding or equipment. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, well, if you could travel into the future, or even if you can travel into the past, wouldn't the number one thing would be to find out what the numbers are going to be for tomorrow? | |
| Well, when I bring it up, and you'd be able to fund yourself with millions of dollars. | ||
| Well, I mean, obviously, that's the first thing I thought. | ||
| When I first, I actually had a reporter ask me that back in 1995 when it's like, what were you planning to do with this thing? | ||
| When I actually told him, I was going, oh, I'm going to go into the future, get the lottery numbers, and then come back and give them to myself. | ||
| I mean, when I told them that, I was actually laughing when I said it. | ||
| It was a joke. | ||
| I mean, I didn't think they would take it seriously. | ||
| They hung on every word I said. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That would be the key to do, though, don't you think? | |
| Well, that's the problem stopping me. | ||
| The thing stopping me from doing that, though, is I don't know how to go in reverse. | ||
| I mean, the time, like I said, I can't go back before I turn this thing on. | ||
| The best I could do is turn it, like if I turn it on today, I can come back to go to tomorrow, and then come back to stay, but I have to keep the thing on the whole time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is there any way you can send information? | |
| I can't do it. | ||
| It can't be done. | ||
| Yeah, he's asking if there's any way you can send back information. | ||
| I haven't really looked into that. | ||
| I mean, basically, I've heard of other people basically like this one guy supposedly made a TV that can see the future or whatever, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet. | ||
| What would really bother me is to lose you. | ||
| I mean, really lose you. | ||
| I thought you were lost for two years, Mike, and now I have this feeling. | ||
| I just have this feeling that you're going to rebuild somehow. | ||
| Well, that's the eventual goal, anyway. | ||
| I mean, it may or may not happen. | ||
| Now, there's this, I can't, I guess if it happens at some point in the future, I can't really say that it didn't happen. | ||
| But there's this story floating around me on the internet where I ended up back in 1930 crushing some tube with a cell phone in my hand or something. | ||
| Well, as far as I know, that didn't happen, but that's not to say that I don't do it at some point in the future. | ||
| I don't see how because I don't know how to go back to any arbitrary point in the past. | ||
| You know, I've got to say that even going forward in hops, going forward in hops and holding your youth at the same time, if you didn't have to end up with a headache, no idea, and in the middle of the field somewhere, would be pretty cool. | ||
| Yeah, well, I mean, the foolish, looking back on it, the foolish thing I've done, I mean, basically was I didn't wear a Faraday cage when I dumped into it. | ||
| I didn't think I needed one. | ||
| I know better now, so. | ||
| Yes, you did. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let's go to, I don't know, Kansas City on the phone. | ||
| Hi, you're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Art. | |
| How you doing? | ||
| I'm doing well, sir. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, a couple of things for you. | |
| I'm a skeptic. | ||
| I love your time travel talk. | ||
| I love hearing it. | ||
| I love reading it. | ||
| It's great. | ||
| Are you a skeptic of what Mike did? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, not necessarily. | |
| The proof is in the pudding, naturally, okay? | ||
| The thing that bothers me on a situation like this, you travel in time, you lose track of two years. | ||
| A person can go into a coma, okay? | ||
| My thing is a two-way travel. | ||
| You go forward, you come back. | ||
| You go back, you come forwards. | ||
| Well, that would be ideal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It would be ideal, and it would be the real proof, okay? | |
| And the other thing, and Mike, this is for you, okay? | ||
| I have a lot of close family, a lot of close loved ones. | ||
| Keep track of me. | ||
| What did your family say or think this time you were gone? | ||
| Oh, good question. | ||
| A really good question. | ||
| How about it, Mike? | ||
| Well, basically, they thought I vaporized myself, so they were freaked out. | ||
| Did they submit any reports to the police? | ||
| Did they, you know, a missing person report or anything? | ||
| You know, actually, well, that's actually one of the first things I did when I was in that homeless shelter. | ||
| I ended up going to the library and doing a search myself and see if, and nothing turned up. | ||
| So basically, I don't know if they filed missing persons or not. | ||
| Basically, they said they did, but I can't find anything. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Here is somebody named Clay who is on the wormhole saying, has Madman ever considered creating a Kickstarter page to fund yet another project with the proper funding? | ||
| He could even keep a video blog to record his results, thus proving the experiment works. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| That's actually a good idea. | ||
| I never actually considered that. | ||
| I mean, usually with Kickstarter, it's things that, well, I mean, with at large, there's probably so much skepticism. | ||
| I don't think I get that much anyway. | ||
| It's not a bad idea. | ||
| It's actually an idea. | ||
| One of your original callers from 95, they asked me if I was going to be publishing. | ||
| Well, I'm not your typical, basically one of your other, like one of your other guests. | ||
| Most of your other guests already have a book published or whatever, and then they go on your show to promote it. | ||
| Yes, I know. | ||
| You don't have a book to sell, right? | ||
| Yeah, I don't. | ||
| It's like I've never, that's my weak thing. | ||
| On the technical side, I'm a math and science guy. | ||
| As far as basically the English side of it, when I was in college, I barely passed that. | ||
| All right, here's what I recommend, Mike. | ||
| Seriously. | ||
| There will be a lot of people who would be willing to ghost author for you or co-author for you. | ||
| So in other words, you could in detail with drawings, if you can remember, of the equipment, the warehouse, the whole thing, everything that's happened beginning to end, as you've told it on this story, on this show, rather, but In more detail and write a book. | ||
| I recommend you do it. | ||
| Now, I'm not sure how we can do it. | ||
| Well, I did remember Stephen Hawking's publisher said every formula including this is going to cut yourselves in half. | ||
| If we have a publisher who would like to do this, how about I have them contact my producer, you know her, very nice girl, Heather. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And maybe you should make a book deal, Mike. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, if somebody else is going to write it, I mean, I could write all the techniques, basically the meat and potatoes of it, and they can more or less do the rest. | ||
| And if anything deserves to be published, it's this. | ||
| And that it would go a long way toward, I think, funding any project you want. | ||
| It's just an idea. | ||
| David, you're on with Madman Markham. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Art, man, looking good. | ||
| I see you on Periscope. | ||
| Oh, hi. | ||
| Question for Mark, or Mike. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, so, I mean, it's intriguing because you don't really have an angle on this. | |
| I mean, you don't have a book deal, like you said before. | ||
| You know, Art kind of found you back in 95. | ||
| So what about the witnesses? | ||
| I mean, is there anyone out there that can corroborate your story? | ||
| I mean, where are they at? | ||
| Maybe we can find them tonight. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Well, I mean, well, I mean, basically, like I said, I can't remember. | ||
| There was her name. | ||
| Her last name was Sanderson. | ||
| That's the only one I can remember. | ||
| But yeah, originally, there was like 25 or 30 people basically were there when I was running this thing. | ||
| All right, just like the police officer who contacted me and actually went on the air. | ||
| I mean, how often does that ever happen? | ||
| Yeah, that was, yeah, that was crap. | ||
| I just said it earlier. | ||
| Oh, Tom Hampton. | ||
| I'm sure he could be found. | ||
| I'm sure that some other people who were funding you. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, he's actually still an officer in Stanbury, as far as I know. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So, yeah, basically, well, you know, small-town people, they more or less grow up and die there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, I'll help you find, you know, some of the people that were there in the warehouse, you know. | |
| Right. | ||
| I think it's a wonderful idea, Caller. | ||
| Thank you very, very much. | ||
| You know, and put it all together, chronicle it in a book as best as you can remember it. | ||
| You know, I understand that your memory got harmed, certainly. | ||
| That's not a surprise. | ||
| It's like when I was talking to Heather yesterday, I was telling her about this experiment where they were basically taking these eight Tesla magnets, which is a really, really strong magnet, but they actually got it. | ||
| The tech is mature enough where they actually make that handheld. | ||
| And they were actually showing it off for the Discovery Channel where they were actually taking that thing, pulsing it into some guy's brain, and he's counting from one to ten while this thing's pulsing in his head. | ||
| And it was actually messing with his speech centers where he couldn't talk, where he couldn't count. | ||
| I believe it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I absolutely believe it. | |
| These guys are PhDs, and it's like, oh my God, you basically know more about this than I do, and you're still doing it. | ||
| It's almost like you were in a timeless coma for two years. | ||
| I don't know how else to think about it. | ||
| I mean, you've got to ask yourself, I certainly ask, where was Madman for two years? | ||
| Where were you? | ||
| Did you simply jump through that time and land on the field? | ||
| It seems that way. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, as far as I can tell, like I said, I didn't physically age as far as I could tell. | ||
| I mean, my fingernails were the same length as they were. | ||
| I didn't have one day's growth of facial hair. | ||
| So as far as I could tell, I just skipped over that two years. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let's stay with the phone and go to next, whatever next is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Hey, Art. | ||
| This is Tom from Florida. | ||
| How are you doing? | ||
| I'm doing well, Tom. | ||
| What's up? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I just wanted to, I missed part of the show, unfortunately, and I just wanted to ask Mike, did you have any feedback from the government or anything? | |
| Did any government officials get in contact with you? | ||
| I mean, that's a very, very good question. | ||
| A very good question. | ||
| I mean, well, that's another thing. | ||
| I mean, Hollywood, basically, they'd have me, the men in black show up and make me disappear. | ||
| Well, obviously, that didn't actually happen. | ||
| Did anybody from the government at all contact you? | ||
| No, basically, you would think they would. | ||
| I'm sure they, I mean, they have spy silettes everywhere, so I'm sure they know about it, but no, I didn't hear a peep out of them. | ||
| Nobody came knocking on my door, offering me money, saying, hey, come work for us. | ||
| Basically, we'll give you all the funding you need. | ||
| I mean, that happens in every Hollywood movie you ever watch, but the reality is a little bit different. | ||
| That's incredible, Mike. | ||
| You would think that some government agency, DARPA, somebody. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, you'd think, yeah, Department of Energy or DARPA, yeah, really actually DARPA because basically they fund all sorts of strange things. | ||
| So, yeah, you'd think they would be coming, like knocking on my door, checking hand, but nope, didn't happen. | ||
| If they were to come to you now, would you cooperate with them or not? | ||
| Usually, I mean, the thing with DARPA, well, I don't have first-hand experience with them, but I'm willing to bet they try to militarize every, I mean, basically the check isn't free and clear. | ||
| There's always strings attached. | ||
| I hear that. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Very quickly, let's try this. | ||
| You're on the phone and on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Art. | |
| What a pleasure to be on the phone with you and with Mike. | ||
| First of all, I want to say that I appreciate Your interest in time travel because you have such an interest. | ||
| It allows all of us who also have an interest to enjoy these topics in depth. | ||
| But my question is: this: We know obviously that he ended up in our dimension. | ||
| In other words, when he went through this so-called time machine, he didn't go into like another dimension or an alternate future. | ||
| He obviously stayed within our own dimension, our own time, our own space. | ||
| So that begs the question, the Earth is in a different spot two years from now. | ||
| So if he ended up in the same locale, I'm sorry, the same dimension as we are. | ||
| Well, no, no, wait a minute. | ||
| He moved 800 miles, remember? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| The Earth's. | ||
| So in other words, why didn't he materialize in space? | ||
| We're at a break, and I have to break. | ||
| So, Mike, that is kind of a cool question and one worth considering during the break. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Midnight in the Desert doesn't screen calls. | |
| We trust you, but remember, the NSA, well, you know. | ||
| To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278. | ||
| That's 1-952-CALL-ART. | ||
| That's the landline number, and you're welcome to give this a call and ask Madman Markham whatever you like. | ||
| And otherwise, of course, Skype is active and ready at your beck and call, as it were. | ||
| Mike, welcome back. | ||
| Yep, glad to be here. | ||
| Jasmundo from Down Under, I know he's in Australia. | ||
| He's wondering if you were upset that you missed the Millennium New Year's Eve. | ||
| Well, kind of. | ||
| Technically, the Millennium wasn't. | ||
| Depending on who you asked, the Millennium didn't start to 2001 anyway. | ||
| Good point. | ||
| It is depending on who you ask indeed. | ||
| But, of course, it just gone, huh? | ||
| Yeah, pretty much. | ||
| I mean, it was kind of depressing, but at that point, I was more excited than depressed. | ||
| I completely understand. | ||
| All right, I believe it's Trey from Atlanta. | ||
| Hi, Trey. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, Art. | |
| I'm sort of reticent to say this, but, you know, I feel like with Madman here, and it is a huge honor to talk to you, do you feel like even if you haven't personally in perhaps this reality have hit time travel, do you think an alternate version of you has? | ||
| That's a pretty cool question. | ||
| Well, if you consider the multiverse theory, I guess if there's infinite versions of me, I guess so. | ||
| I mean, if you think of it that way. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, it's definitely a possibility. | |
| Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, by definition, basically, yeah, I mean, with infinite possibilities, everything that could possibly happen has happened, as far as that goes. | ||
| But, you know, I'm kind of more concerned about me rather than alternate me. | ||
| Well, you are now how old, Mike? | ||
| According to burned my birth certificate at 42, but really only 40. | ||
| Yeah, biologically, I'm 40. | ||
| So at 40, you know, you're in your prime. | ||
| There's no question about it. | ||
| You're in your prime. | ||
| And hopefully with luck, I'll have another 40. | ||
| Well, maybe you will. | ||
| And again, what are you going to do with it? | ||
| I mean, somebody who's already done the incredible thing that you've done can't just give up. | ||
| Oh, of course. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| So you're going to build, aren't you? | ||
| Well, if I can, I will. | ||
| Hello there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're on the air with Madman Markham. | |
| Hi. | ||
| I think the missing equipment in the warehouse part of your story is the weak link. | ||
| Because it's easy to find out who owns a commercial building. | ||
| We all know all you have to do is go to the local courthouse records department or a realtor or an attorney and they will tell you the name of the owner of the warehouse. | ||
| And you're much too brilliant and you're much too practical to have overlooked this because of losing all of your equipment and your notes. | ||
| What's your explanation for this? | ||
| And the video. | ||
| The video, too. | ||
| Well, basically, like I said, as far as the video goes, all that disappeared with the equipment. | ||
| But believe it or not, that didn't actually cross my mind. | ||
| So as far as looking up the realtor of the building or whatever. | ||
| Why not? | ||
| I mean, I would think you would definitely, definitely want to know what happened to your stuff. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I would. | ||
| But, like I said, you know what? | ||
| That didn't actually cross my mind. | ||
| I mean, like I said, at first, I didn't even have the brains to remember my own name. | ||
| Well, look, I know that the stuff was there. | ||
| Well, yeah, when I actually went back there, I actually stayed there for a week, but yeah, believe it or not, the week that I was there, I didn't actually think to go to the courthouse. | ||
| Do you mean that you stayed in the warehouse for a week when you went back? | ||
| No, I mean, no. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it basically made me really depressed being there and seeing it empty, so I got the hell out of there. | ||
| I totally get that. | ||
| That would be depressing. | ||
| It's like, where did everything go? | ||
| Overseas somewhere. | ||
| Hi there. | ||
| You're on the air with Madman. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Hi. | ||
| Where are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I am in Japan, and for some reason I'm hearing myself. | |
| Oh, there we are. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Good. | ||
| So I was going to say that I feel kind of like on time traveling myself because I'm watching you on Periscope, and it's about 15, 20 seconds ahead of the radio that I've got. | ||
| That's a type of time travel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But I guess I had two questions. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| One of them, or a question and a comment. | ||
| One is that on the DARPA side of things, if they, I mean, if everything that we hear is, or even if half of what we hear is true, I would think that they wouldn't really need you, honestly. | ||
| I feel like to a certain extent, they'd probably be way beyond what you're doing, and their only interest would be to shut you up. | ||
| If anything, they probably just figured, oh, he'll burn himself up or do it wrong or he won't remember. | ||
| We've already done that, so we don't care. | ||
| Yeah, it's kind of a good point, Mike. | ||
| If you've done that. | ||
| That could be why they haven't knocked on my door. | ||
| They already know more than I do. | ||
| There you go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And the question is. | |
| I mean, I mean, we have billions of dollars to do stuff with. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I didn't get to hear the whole show yet. | |
| I'll go back and listen to it because I'm subscribed. | ||
| But you talked about the warehouse being empty, but did you have a house that you were living in in the town? | ||
| Was that still there? | ||
| Like your personal possessions and stuff still there? | ||
| Good question. | ||
| Or did that get together? | ||
| Well, actually, the house I had at the time was in St. Joseph, Missouri. | ||
| Yeah, that was all long gone, too. | ||
| Basically, other people were living there now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So your family or anybody keep any of your stuff? | |
| I mean, do you have any personal belongings or anything? | ||
| Because I feel like that would be a good idea. | ||
| I basically had to start over. | ||
| So I'm sure basically I don't know what happens to stuff when somebody disappears for two years. | ||
| You will hear when you listen to the rest of the show about his ID being gone, about a lot, trust me. | ||
| More or less, I basically was in the same boat with somebody's house burning down and with all their possessions inside. | ||
| Basically, in 2000, I had nothing. | ||
| I imagine when you went back to the warehouse, when you went back to the warehouse, I'm sure it was just a gigantic, depressing moment. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Here's what I imagine. | ||
| I imagine that perhaps either whoever owned the warehouse or perhaps the tenant that came to the warehouse after you disappeared, literally, had everything just dragged away somewhere and probably put in, you know, the junkyard. | ||
| I hate to say that, but... | ||
| They probably sold it for scrap and got quite a bit of money from it because there was a lot of copper in that. | ||
| God knows they rip up copper from radio antennas have radios. | ||
| They rip that up and sell it as copper. | ||
| It's horrible. | ||
| What's going on? | ||
| Daniel. | ||
| Hello, Daniel on Skype. | ||
| You're on the air with Mad Man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, guys. | |
| This is actually Dimitri, and Daniel is my son. | ||
| He was the one that put the call through. | ||
| But I just wanted to say that it's a great honor to talk to both Art and Mad Mad Markham. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I've listened to the original broadcast back in the mid-90s when I was a teenager, and I was fascinated by the story. | |
| Well, in that case, can you verify that what you heard then is basically what you heard now? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I would say so. | |
| And as I said, you know, many years went on since the original broadcast, and this story just stuck with me. | ||
| It was always in the back of my mind. | ||
| I would think about it every now and again. | ||
| I always wondered what happened to Mad Man. | ||
| And, you know, I tried every now and again to hop online and try to see if there was any new information. | ||
| Just maybe a couple of months ago, I probably spent a whole day digging online and, you know, came up with little things here and there and actually found a story about him appearing 800 miles away. | ||
| And I thought for some reason that that was some bogus story. | ||
| But now hearing it from, you know, Michael Markham himself, I got to say, hey, you know what? | ||
| That really did happen. | ||
| But what I wanted to ask is, okay, so there was a warehouse where all this equipment was set up. | ||
| And, you know, I'm sure all these people were there watching Michael jump in. | ||
| He disappeared. | ||
| Obviously, you know, this was there was something to this machine, to all this machinery. | ||
| It wasn't just a joke. | ||
| I mean, guy either teleported someplace, whether he went, you know, forward or backwards in time. | ||
| It doesn't matter because either one of those scenarios would still be out of this world. | ||
| And I just don't see anyone scrapping this stuff because there is a lot more to it than just, you know, a bunch of transformers sitting around. | ||
| And I was going to say, tracking these people down wouldn't be that hard because obviously at some point, you know, there's someone's name that was attached to the lease or of title. | ||
| Of course, you know what else? | ||
| You know what else is also possible, Caller? | ||
| That is that somebody did know exactly what happened, and somebody came in who knew what they were doing and took it all away. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And then another thing I was going to ask is whatever happened to the videotapes? | ||
| I mean, I know, obviously, you know, Michael doesn't know how to get a hold of any of these guys, but, you know, you would think that if something like this happened and someone got it on video, it's bound to make its way to YouTube. | ||
| I mean, I've checked all over. | ||
| Okay, hold on. | ||
| You know, the answer to that is all that stuff, the recording of all this was done in the warehouse. | ||
| So this stuff was in the warehouse, including the camcorder, right, Mike? | ||
| Yeah, the camcorder, several hours of footage, and my personal journal basically were more or less write down the date and basically the experiments that day I did. | ||
| Including, I would imagine, your ID and anything metal you had that you were carrying. | ||
| Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, mostly I usually had that on me until a day I was actually going to jump in because I didn't want that basically erasing. | ||
| Because there's a magnetic stripe on the back, and if you erase that, yeah, you can't sway it doesn't work anymore. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, but these people were at the warehouse when everything went down while the video camera was set up recording the whole event. | |
| And so you'd think that one of those guys would probably grab the camera after the fact or at least grab the tape, so they would have some kind of proof of, hey, you know what? | ||
| I've witnessed a guy either either that or they didn't want any evidence of this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
True, true. | |
| Well, in any case, fascinating story. | ||
| Loved it. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| I really hope that Mike can go forward with this. | ||
| And, you know what, maybe put out a shout out because I know there's a lot of people listening to the show that would probably like to contribute just like the folks back in the day did. | ||
| And, you know, I'd like to go forward. | ||
| Okay, thank you. | ||
| I honestly think that one of the better paths now for Mike might be to find a publicist and sit down with a publicist. | ||
| And even if you have to do regressive therapy, you know, in order to bring back some of the details that got blasted away when you went through, somehow commit all of this to paper and do exactly what everybody else in the world does, write a book. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| I'm actually looking at the. | ||
| This one guy suggests, I'm actually looking at the website now. | ||
| Tell him to set up a GoFundMe account. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, GoFundMe or, you know, well, that's crowdfunding, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, one thing I do want to avoid is, well, I know this one guy, he supposedly had some sort of free energy device, and he basically, they end up sending him to prison for securities fraud. | ||
| So I definitely don't want to basically end up going falling in his shoes. | ||
| No, we don't want you back in the pokey again. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, yeah, I mean, as far as that goes, that's what basically, well, he more or less said, here's a free, here I have an engine that runs on water. | ||
| And, well, I guess he ends up filing his company on the New York Stock Exchange. | ||
| And then he couldn't deliver. | ||
| And, well, basically, they more or less sent him to prison for securities fraud. | ||
| There are a few things that we do know for sure. | ||
| We know you did the experiment. | ||
| We know you ended up 800 miles away from the point of the experiment. | ||
| And we know that two years disappeared. | ||
| People are asking questions about the warehouse, but I kind of understand if everything was gone, you'd just kind of, I don't know, throw up your hands in dismay, and you'd probably be a little disoriented. | ||
| Hold tight. | ||
| Madman Markham is my guest. | ||
| He is not a French fry yet, and he may do it again. | ||
| Or maybe not. | ||
| Maybe you'll just write a book. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Walked into the room There was doo-doo in the back I was captured by a star People from the seven miles It's all we need. | |
| No call screening. | ||
| No waiting on hold. | ||
| No requirement to kiss Art's ring. | ||
| Just good talk. | ||
| Join Art by calling 1-952-225-5278. | ||
| That's 1-952-CALL ART. | ||
| Actually, this is a remarkable interview taking place 18 to 20 years, respectively, after the first interviews with Mike Madman Markham. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And it is an incredible, incredible story. | |
| No question about it. | ||
| I think it definitely deserves to be in a book with lots and lots of details. | ||
| And is there anything left, Mike? | ||
| Are there photographs, any pictures at all of the big equipment that you had set up? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anything? | |
| No, unfortunately. | ||
| Drawings, but basically those are redrawn from memory. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Right. | ||
| Oh, that is so sad. | ||
| So sad. | ||
| And it seems to be something that happens in time travel stories that we get even from others. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's sad. | |
| Jack on Skype, you're on the air with Matman. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Markham, I have a quick suggestion for you, sir. | |
| If you set yourself up a Patreon account and then link that with a YouTube account and start making a weekly video, I can pretty much guarantee that everyone listening tonight and that's been listening to this kind of broadcast for the last 20 or 30 years will subscribe to your YouTube channel. | ||
| YouTube will start paying you and then Patreon will start paying you. | ||
| And that will fund your research. | ||
| The only thing you've got to promise us, little guy, is that you're going to keep us updated on your progress. | ||
| Do you want to do that kind of thing? | ||
| It's a good suggestion. | ||
| Do you want to get on social media? | ||
| The trouble with it is, Mike, that it does make you a celebrity. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, I mean, sometimes that's unavoidable as much as I don't like it. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| You're absolutely correct. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So you consider that? | |
| Well, believe it or not, I already have a YouTube account. | ||
| I mean, I think it's been hacked because there's stuff posting on it that I didn't post. | ||
| Oh, that happens a lot. | ||
| Yeah, but I know two years in the bigger scheme of things is short, but I'm wondering, were you jolted by the change in technology? | ||
| Because we are a fast-moving world. | ||
| Was there anything? | ||
| Like I said, basically I had to go to the library and catch up on what I missed. | ||
| Was there anything that surprised you in technological progress? | ||
| Well, yes, I mean, somewhat. | ||
| I mean, basically 1998, the main thing I would think, I was using first-generation IGBTs in my time machine. | ||
| By 2000, they had the second-generation ones. | ||
| So I think they're up to like six or seven now. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| But yeah, Silcon technology was the thing that mostly blew my mind. | ||
| So, oh, yeah, they were making a big deal about gigahertz processors. | ||
| Well, in 1998, they only had 233 megahertz, so that was a big leap. | ||
| It sure has been. | ||
| All right, Madman Markham and somebody in Colorado Springs, I think. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, guys. | |
| This is Kevin. | ||
| A couple comments. | ||
| First, the question from the caller about why you wouldn't have ended up in space. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| If I jump exactly this moment in time, a year forward, would not I end up in exactly the same place I am now? | ||
| The Earth would be in the same place in space. | ||
| Well, if it was exactly, maybe if it was exactly a year. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And that's what I think. | |
| Oh, I see, I see, I see, I've got you. | ||
| So you're saying even though it was two years, my. | ||
| Well, I'll keep in mind the sun's not staying put in one spot in space compared to, it depends on what your point of reference is. | ||
| It takes like 12,500 years technically to be in the same spot, but you've got to remember the whole Milky Way galaxy is also rotating. | ||
| Were you gone? | ||
| It's a good question. | ||
| Were you gone exactly two years? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do you know? | |
| No, it was actually two years and two months and some odd days. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Yeah, but the thing is, as far as, you know, actually, that question was asked before we went to break. | ||
| But, yeah, basically what happened was, well, the other end of the wormhole, so to speak, I don't know what else to call it. | ||
| Basically, it more or less rides, well, it's riding the center of the gravity of the Earth. | ||
| So I don't have to worry about ending up in space. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Wow. | ||
| This whole thing is so incredible. | ||
| And I guess luckily it's as far as stability goes, it's not dumping me in the middle of something. | ||
| So that's actually good. | ||
| That's actually what I was worried about. | ||
| Okay, are these hamsters, are they end up, it's like, are they ended up in the middle of the parking lot or whatever? | ||
| I mean, literally buried in the asphalt. | ||
| So maybe when you die, Mad Man, you'll walk through the pearl leaves and there will be a whole bunch of hamsters and guinea pigs staring at you. | ||
| Kenny, hello there, Kenny, wherever you are on Skype. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, how's it going? | |
| It's fine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, that was going to be my question because you guys went to break and why didn't he end up in space and you guys forgot to answer that question. | |
| So that was my question. | ||
| That was going to be reminding you to ask. | ||
| So your whole call is now useless. | ||
| Or do you have another question? | ||
| I have a request. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I do definitely have a request. | |
| Is there a way that you can come up with a compilation of all the times JC called you and put it on as a tribute? | ||
| Because that guy was awesome. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, maybe like a memorial. | ||
| Because I think he's, well, you know, I shouldn't say it because JC. | ||
| I don't know where JC is. | ||
| may be. | ||
| Yeah, I've heard Legendary heckler is a way to put it, I suppose. | ||
| Hi there, you're on the air with Matt Markham. | ||
| Hi, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for taking my call. | |
| I just have a quick question for his guest today. | ||
| I guess I'm curious to know about his familiarity with the intergalactic gravitational transportation associated with his time travel. | ||
| I missed the first half of the call. | ||
| I'm just curious to know if he used electricity to increase the magnetism and the gravity within his warehouse when he traveled. | ||
| Oh, you've got to... | ||
| You know, member of our time traveler club is what I mean. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I'm not Art. | |
| Oh, goodness. | ||
| You need to go back and hear the beginning of this program because we detailed everything, and we can't go through it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
My fault. | |
| But if you go to the, I think if you go to YouTube, even the original 1995 interviews are on there. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Well, of course, the big experiment is not part of that. | ||
| Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, the quite a bit happens from 1997 up till 2000. | ||
| I should say. | ||
| Yeah, 2000. | ||
| So I'm sorry, Caller. | ||
| You'll have to find a way to hear the show. | ||
| That's all I can say. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let's see if we can quickly do one before a masked man on Sky Pelo. | ||
| Hello, going on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Art. | |
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, I got a question. | ||
| I'm wondering if he knows whether he is in the same dimension he left in. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Did he go to another Earth with another universe? | ||
| Good question. | ||
| Well, I'm still here. | ||
| Yeah, like alternate reality. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, it would make sense, even, you know, all your stuff has vanished. | |
| Well, none of your stuff. | ||
| I mean, you would really expect none of your stuff. | ||
| Wait a minute, wait a minute. | ||
| One at a time here. | ||
| Call her, go ahead. | ||
| You would really expect none of your stuff to be around. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It would be missing. | |
| Would it be in the warehouse? | ||
| You know, that's a kind of a thought. | ||
| Mike, what do you think? | ||
| That's actually a possibility. | ||
| I have no way of knowing for certain what the heck happened. | ||
| Maybe, maybe, maybe when you vanished, it did too. | ||
| I've got a question. | ||
| Was there anything on the floor? | ||
| Were there scar marks? | ||
| Were there drag marks? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anything at all? | |
| No, there was actually a new tenant there. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I meant. | ||
| Yeah, I knew it. | ||
| I mean, if there was any thing, basically with a, well, where the main contraption was, I guess you could call it, the main vortex generator or whatever you want to call it. | ||
| Where that was, there was a bunch of pallets stuck there. | ||
| It's like stacked there. | ||
| So if there was skid marks or whatever, they were covered up. | ||
| Another tenant. | ||
| Very quickly, you're on the air with Madman Mark. | ||
| I'm coming up in a break. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Hello, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Welcome back to the airwaves. | |
| This is Ryan out in the middle of the Sonoran Desert in Buckeye, Arizona. | ||
| Hey there. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| I just wanted to know if there was a missing person report because if somebody's jumped through something as he describes and there's witnesses, people are going to panic, like the owner of the building, you know, potentially manslaughter, homicide, being complicit in. | ||
| Not to mention his family. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Hold on, Colin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hold on. | |
| We're getting an answer. | ||
| Go ahead, Mike. | ||
| Yeah, well, my family basically thought I more or less vaporized myself. | ||
| And as far as everybody, that's actually when I went, basically when I went back there, that's what I ended up. | ||
| That was one of the first things I did was do a search of myself and see if I can find, like I said, missing persons, reports, all that stuff. | ||
| Both of you. | ||
| Yeah, both of you. | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| I'll bring you back, caller. | ||
| Stay right where you are. | ||
| We're in break. | ||
| I frankly thought was dead, but he's not. | ||
| David in Los Angeles writes something that as I bring back this caller and Mike, I think you all should hear. | ||
| Art, I'm a real estate broker, and whenever someone just disappears from a property, we call a company to trash everything inside. | ||
| Most times we have no idea, nor do we care what's going into the dumpster. | ||
| Then we rent to a new tenant. | ||
| That's how it works. | ||
| Caller, you're back on with Madman Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, sir. | |
| And I just, you know, it's a very fascinating story. | ||
| I'm kind of like thinking maybe this was a story that would have been good for truth or trash. | ||
| It's just there's too many holes in the story. | ||
| Like why? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, a guy disappears for two years, and law enforcement, the media is not alerted, somebody panicking witnessed this. | |
| I looked for the guy myself. | ||
| Well, and then he appears out of the field out of the homeless shelter. | ||
| There's got to be a record of him up here and there. | ||
| And then there is a lot of jobs. | ||
| Okay, Mike, is there a record of your appearance at the homeless shelter? | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure there is. | ||
| I mean, they had security cameras in there, so I don't know if they still have that footage from this. | ||
| Keep in mind, this was 15 years ago, so I don't know if they still have the footage or not. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I understand it, but extraordinary claims, you have to have extraordinary evidence. | |
| I mean, it's a great story, but there's a lot of holes, especially where you disappear and there's all these witnesses. | ||
| Nobody goes to the cops. | ||
| No one goes to the media. | ||
| And then, like you said, a credit card. | ||
| Actually, the media. | ||
| Hold it, hold it, hold it. | ||
| One thing at a time. | ||
| You're blasting a lot of things. | ||
| The media did pay attention. | ||
| And the media did, including me nationally, went on the air and said, Madman is gone. | ||
| We can't find him. | ||
| And other media looked into it as well. | ||
| Now, as Palladi will tell you, people disappear. | ||
| It happens. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Go ahead. | |
| Gone because of this him jumping into his time machine or just disappearing off the grid. | ||
| It's two different things. | ||
| I'm not trying to be critical. | ||
| No, you can be critical. | ||
| It's fine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Be critical. | |
| This story is just like, you know, family members would have panic. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| If somebody would have said, hey, you know, your son, your daughter, your whatever, would have jumped through something like that. | ||
| And he said they assume that he vaporized, well, I would think they'd go to the police. | ||
| I would, too. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And the guy that owns a building. | |
| Well, that's yet something else. | ||
| You're jumping ahead. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Mike, let me ask you this. | ||
| Your family. | ||
| I asked that too. | ||
| Look, I don't know, and I have no right to pry, but I don't know how close you were to your family. | ||
| I don't know anything about you with that regard. | ||
| I mean, so are you surprised they didn't file a police report? | ||
| Well, I mean, I was actually for a rest. | ||
| I mean, kind of, but not really. | ||
| I mean, I talk to them every, like, I mean, I don't call them like every day and tell them what I'm doing or anything like that. | ||
| I mean, usually I call them every, I'd say maybe every few weeks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, yeah, but okay, let's try this. | |
| They knew what you were doing, didn't they? | ||
| Yeah, and I figured, well, okay, maybe, you know, they assume, okay, I figured they'd have a, I mean, none of them have a life insurance policy that they tried to collect or anything like that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So I'll tell you this. | |
| If I were writing a policy and there was no, and there was no, okay, I figured maybe if the world assumes I'm dead, maybe there'll be a death certificate of me. | ||
| No, I guess the world assumes I'm still alive, because I can't find a death certificate on me. | ||
| Well, after about a year, they can do that. | ||
| Or maybe it's more than that. | ||
| I really don't know. | ||
| Me neither. | ||
| I was going to say, if I was asked to write a policy on you, and I was the underwriter, I'd say no, no chance. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, only, yeah, I mean, the premiums for that would be insane. | ||
| Everybody has to remember, everybody knew what Mike was doing. | ||
| He had been arrested. | ||
| He had been in jail. | ||
| He had collected this equipment. | ||
| Then he had collected donations and money from broadcasting that we did. | ||
| He had the warehouse. | ||
| We know about that. | ||
| And he had the resources to build the stuff he talked about. | ||
| So we know an awful lot. | ||
| Granted, there's some we don't know, but we know that much. | ||
| William on Skype, you're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Roswell's Arknell. | |
| I beg pardon? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Roswell's Arknell. | |
| Well, Roswell's right back to you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you, sir. | |
| Mike, I've got a question for you. | ||
| You said when you put your small animals through, they went up either east or west. | ||
| Was it always the same direction, or was it one or the other? | ||
| It was, as far as I could tell, as far as trying to figure out if there was a pattern to it, east or west was random. | ||
| So they either went east or west, but never north-south, caller? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That doesn't make sense to me. | |
| If he's traveling forward in time, he should always go in the same direction and either wind up above the ground or under the ground. | ||
| My next question is, if you saw them appear, did they appear on the ground or did they appear above the ground and fall to the ground? | ||
| Well, I mean, they were appeared above the ground. | ||
| I mean, they were basically on the surface of the ground. | ||
| They weren't under the ground. | ||
| And they didn't arrive, come back dead, so I'm assuming they didn't pop in high enough above the ground where the fall killed them. | ||
| Were any of them physically affected in any way that you could detect, Mike? | ||
| No, I mean, they were perfectly fine, as far as I could tell. | ||
| No burn marks. | ||
| They were, I mean, I mean, they even had their same appetite they had. | ||
| As far as you could physically tell, nothing changed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All right. | ||
| Obviously, it did something. | ||
| It probably did something to the nervous system, but. | ||
| As you pointed out, they can't talk. | ||
| Yeah, so. | ||
| Certainly did something to your nervous system. | ||
| Hi there, you're on the air with Madman Markham. | ||
| Oh, man, that's such a wonderful broadcast. | ||
| Thanks for having me on. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Mike, this is just a phenomenal story. | ||
| I've been following it for, well, 18 years now, 20 years, however long it's been. | ||
| I have had a lot of thoughts on ways you can do it. | ||
| I'm kind of surprised that you've used as many animals as you have. | ||
| The technology has evolved quite a bit now. | ||
| If you do build again, and if you were to try to put items through, what about using something like GPRS or some sort of a tracker or beacon and shielding it with like a mylar bag, having the mylar bag top with, say, like a CO2 canister on the timer, and then you could also try to record like a stopwatch or have some other way to really see how much time has passed on one side of the coin. | ||
| Well, you can't take anything metallic through. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And by the way, Caller, by the way, real quick. | |
| Hold on, Holler. | ||
| Real quick, how many animals would you put through before you personally jump through? | ||
| Well, I would at least put through something with some level of intelligence like a dog. | ||
| I hate to say that because I'm a dog lover. | ||
| But something that can sit, shake, something that can, if I could see that it recognizes the man, has some level of sentence after it, I might feel comfortable going through. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Well, I guess Mike may have considered and possibly rejected sending a dog or a cat. | ||
| There was a rumor about a cat, but yeah, I do understand. | ||
| Yeah, the cat, why not the cat? | ||
| Yeah, the cat never happens. | ||
| A lot of cat lovers out there who'd be upset. | ||
| Yeah, and I didn't want Peta knocking on my door. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Somebody calling themselves Manila Thriller. | ||
| You're on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, Art, it's Mike from Burbank. | |
| Hey, Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I spoke to you on Truth or Trash. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Hey, so the guy had money. | ||
| So did he have the money in the bank? | ||
| Did he have a lot of interest when he got out? | ||
| Madman had money. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, what happened to his bank accounts? | |
| What happened to the utilities that he was paying? | ||
| Was he in arrears? | ||
| Did he take care of that? | ||
| After you've been gone two years, it's all a good question, really, Mike. | ||
| Did you have money in the bank? | ||
| You were not arrears. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know what? | |
| I wish I did. | ||
| Basically, it was like one of those deals where it was like maybe a dollar or something. | ||
| I mostly spend all the money on basically parts for this thing. | ||
| I believe it, totally. | ||
| And as far as the utilities go, usually once you get 30 or 60 days behind, they shut it off. | ||
| So I'm assuming that's what happened. | ||
| They certainly do. | ||
| So, I mean, this way when I came back, my credits was trashed. | ||
| So, yeah, that's probably what happened. | ||
| Okay, caller? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Okay, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| All right. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Appreciate the call. | ||
| You're on with Madman Markham. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello? | |
| Yes. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, yeah. | |
| I'm here, and it's like I'm here looking on the internet, and it says that his stuff melted down. | ||
| Now, where did you, if I can ask, where did you read that? | ||
| It's the infobarrel.com. | ||
| I bet there's a million rumors about what happened. | ||
| Yeah, there's about half of most of those stories don't take it word for word, basically what they're doing, since I was more or less kept to myself for the past 15 years. | ||
| So more or less people guessing what happened. | ||
| And, well, you know, you tell a story and you pass it to the next guy and it changes it a little bit. | ||
| Well, 15 years for that, it's going to be something totally different. | ||
| Like, I don't know where that cat story came from, but it didn't come from me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So anyhow, I know we don't have a lot of time, so I just got a quick question for you here. | |
| Okay, now you talk about body mass, right? | ||
| And maybe you got projected two years into the future because your body mass is larger than, like, let's say a smaller animal, if you get what I'm saying. | ||
| Like, if you send something through, it appears a minute later. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
If you're larger, you're going to get projected further. | |
| That's actually crossed my mind. | ||
| I mean, it's kind of counterintuitive. | ||
| I mean, like if you're taking a rocket to the moon or whatever, I mean, it usually takes more energy to transport more mass. | ||
| So I think it would be working in reverse, but maybe that's not the case. | ||
| So, yeah, it's a possibility. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, yeah. | |
| You know, nobody should imagine that Mike has all the answers. | ||
| He doesn't. | ||
| And how could he? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| You know, he has told you what he knows. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, that was just a theory on my part. | ||
| Oh, nothing wrong with it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No, it's good you did. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks a lot, and I'll let you go so you can get in some more callers. | |
| All right. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| Yeah, Mike, I don't expect you to have all the answers. | ||
| You have given us what you can give us about what happened, what happened to the animals, what happened to the inanimate objects, and then what happened to you. | ||
| That doesn't mean you have all the answers behind, you know, how it happened, why it happened. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm trying to figure out. | ||
| And most of this stuff at this point is pretty much hands-on trial and error. | ||
| So more educated guess, I guess you could say. | ||
| You could have tried to cash in on this a long, long time ago. | ||
| You could have written a book, probably had a movie out of this, no less. | ||
| So, frankly, I hope you do kind of cash in on it. | ||
| No, I mean, it's kind of at this point, I'm basically at the point where it's kind of a requirement if I want to basically advance the research more or less. | ||
| And that is really what you want. | ||
| I'm doing it for basically the, I guess, the learning, I guess. | ||
| Yeah, and that really is what you want, isn't it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You want to continue the research. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| That must be you starting your computer up to continue your research. | ||
| No, it was an automatic restart of the computer having to be sitting in front of. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let's go to Hartsville, South Carolina. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is that right? | |
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Hi, Art. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is Ness from South Carolina. | |
| You're kind of hard to hear, so I'll get close to the phone or something. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, hi, Art. | |
| This is Ness from South Carolina. | ||
| Much better. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Hey, Mike, I have a question, maybe somewhat off topic. | ||
| I was just curious, let's say your creation or experiment would allow you to travel back in time to any period or moment you want in. | ||
| I was just wondering what time and why would you visit it, and is there anything you would change about it? | ||
| Well, you know, believe it or not, I never really considered it because basically every way I know, it only goes forward. | ||
| And even when it goes backwards, you can't go back to the day before you turned it on. | ||
| So I never really thought about it too hard. | ||
| If you went back to the day before you built it, here's the thing about going backwards in time. | ||
| I mean, this is why even theoretical physicists basically say you can't go backwards in time. | ||
| For one, it violates every conservation law basically there is because, well, you can go back and meet yourself and then do that an infinite number of times. | ||
| That's a lot of free, basically that's a lot of mass energy from nowhere. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Boy, it sure is. | |
| Well, you know, it's just been an amazing story with you now, you know, spanning now decades. | ||
| And I just wonder what the next step is. | ||
| I like the idea of a book, but in terms of your actual experimentation, on the one hand, you could say, I'm done. | ||
| I don't want to die. | ||
| On the other hand, you could say, I'm not done. | ||
| I'm still in my prime. | ||
| And if I did a big machine before, I can do a bigger one now or do it better. | ||
| Well, I don't know about bigger. | ||
| I mean, that was pretty, the last one was pretty big. | ||
| And I didn't basically, there was like a, oh, geez, there was like probably four or five years worth of experimentation I could do with that before I decided. | ||
| Basically, I want to learn all I can. | ||
| I mean, it's kind of like building a bigger and bigger particle accelerator. | ||
| You want to basically milk it for all it's worth before you go build a bigger one. | ||
| Very fast question, maybe from Connecticut, I think. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Hi. | ||
| Am I speaking? | ||
| You are, but you've got very little time. | ||
| So if you have a question, fire it out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I just wanted to know, do you really think it's time or probability states? | ||
| Because I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as past or future until the now, and you're really just changing probability. | ||
| Mike, do you have any comments on that? | ||
| Well, I'm kind of like, if you ever read those books by Brian Green, he has like four of them on quantum physics and all that. | ||
| This is just my personal view. | ||
| My personal view is basically the future is actually every possible future exists simultaneously. | ||
| We just can't see it. | ||
| That's how I look at it. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, Mike, you know, it's been a pleasure knowing you all these years, decades now, and don't fry yourself alive, but on the other hand, don't give up because we need people like you. | ||
| No, I plan to continue my experiments if I can. | ||
| I'm sure you do. | ||
| All right, my friend. | ||
| Good night. | ||
| Get a good night's rest, and thank you for appearing on Midnight in the Desert. | ||
| It was fun, Mark. | ||
| Good night. | ||
| All right, everybody. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Everybody in the world wanted an update on Madman Markham, and now you've got it. | ||
| He's not going to stop. | ||
| What's next for Madman? | ||
| Only time will tell. |
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