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Sept. 4, 2015 - Art Bell

02:16:00

Art Bell MITD - Mad Man Markum Time Traveler

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	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening.
	Good morning.
	Good afternoon around the world, in all the world's time zones, covered by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	It's Friday.
	Now, Eighteen to twenty years ago, respectively, I interviewed a young man named Mike Markham, who I affectionately dubbed Madman Markham.
	And that is affectionate, too.
	I called him Madman because the things he was proposing to do I thought would get him cooked like a French fry, and it may do that.
	I have Thanks to my producer, Heather Wade, located Madman, and we've got him secreted away to a very special location where he can do an interview.
	That's right, Madman Markham.
	Mike Markham is here.
	Thank God.
	Frankly, I thought he had toasted himself, and of course you can't ever rule that out with this young man.
	So, uh, that's where we're going tonight.
	We're going to interview Madman Markham.
	What an incredible, incredible find.
	Just a couple of things.
	My usual Skype lecture.
	No, you don't get away from that.
	I'll try and make it short.
	One great way to call us, whether you're in North America or the world, is by Skype.
	If you have a smartphone, and most do now, download Skype.
	It's free.
	Go to your toy store or your update center, or whatever, and download Skype.
	When you do that, don't go to the place where you dial the phone.
	Go to add a contact.
	That's usually a little plus symbol that you want to find.
	Add a contact.
	And then you add us.
	If you're in North America, Canada, or America, you add M-I-T-D 51.
	Midnight in the desert 51.
	51, Midnight in the Desert, 51, MITD51.
	And then we will appear in your list of contacts.
	Simple as that.
	You can press a button in your contacts and call us.
	And it'll sound really good.
	Same deal, outside of North America, anywhere else in the rest of the world, only you put in MITD55.
	Midnight in the desert, MITD.
	Just the initials, upper or lower case, doesn't matter, 55.
	Alright, that said, Let's see, what else?
	Is there anything else critical?
	I want to thank everybody.
	I usually thank Telos, Keith Rowland, especially Heather Wade tonight, Streamguys, LV.net, Sales, Pete Everhart, TuneIn Radio, Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News, of course my wife and my daughter who put up with my being gone and working a lot of the day.
	That said, in a moment, coming up is a man that you probably haven't heard uh...
	well going maybe on uh... tape a lot of people have reviewed the
	interview of uh... madman years ago but certainly if you have not heard him in
	years so coming up
	All the way!
	Relax.
	Don't listen to that.
	Don't call yet.
	Night in the Desert is pounding packets your way on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	To call the show, please direct your finger digits to dial 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952. Call Art.
	Relax. Don't listen to that. Don't call yet.
	We will get to a portion of the program, I hope, where Mike will take questions,
	but that won't be now, so don't waste your time.
	Let's go to a secret location somewhere in the country and say,
	Mike, welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
	It's been a long time, Art.
	It's been a long time.
	18, 20 years ago, right?
	The first interview and then 18 years ago?
	Yep, something like that.
	Something like that.
	All right.
	Gee, Mike, it's hard to know where to begin with you.
	Even back then, it was hard.
	You connected, I think, with us probably when you were doing an Open Lines thing on time travel.
	Is that how we got together?
	It hasn't been so long.
	I hardly remember.
	That was probably it.
	If I remember right, somebody faxed you a newspaper article and you basically hunted me down.
	That's right.
	I hunted you down like a dog.
	At that moment, when I found you, Mike, and I do, you know I use the term madman affectionately, right?
	Yeah, it doesn't bother me any, so.
	It's kind of stuck though, huh?
	Yep.
	So, anyway, well earned, really.
	When I found you at that moment, you were experimenting the beginnings of experimental time travel.
	And you sort of laid it out for me, so if you can remember how you began, tell me.
	Tell us.
	Well, way back when, basically, originally I just set out to make a fancy Jacob's Ladder.
	So, basically, two metal rods, spark going up the middle, high voltage spark going up the middle, that's basically like the old Frankenstein movies or whatever.
	Right, that was the first step, and if I recall correctly, you then modified it with lasers.
	Yeah, basically I wanted to do something a little bit different, so I decided to basically take a laser and have the laser ignite the arc.
	Okay, so if I remember correctly, the original one was about how tall?
	Not that tall.
	Yeah, it wasn't all that powerful.
	I mean, I used clothes hanger wires, so I think it was something like a couple of kilowatts.
	A couple of kilowatts, okay.
	And I had no way to measure the laser power, but it was hot enough to where it lowered the resistance of the air to get an arc started.
	And that arc was about how big?
	Well, it was 20,000 volts at about 100 milliamps.
	Probably at the longest, at the top, before it extinguished, probably seven or eight inches long.
	All right.
	Now, with that early experiment, Mike, was there that little thing appearing above the Jacob's Ladder?
	Yeah, it didn't exactly work as I expected it would.
	Basically, what happened was, when I fired the laser, the spark stuck where the laser was, and right above it, there was like a little shimmering mirage effect, like anything, like a road in the
	desert, I guess you could say.
	But this was like a small, circular, well, circular or spherical, spherical looking.
	So I ended up, like, whoa, this looks strange.
	So basically I was wondering, okay, what am I looking at here?
	What have I done?
	Yeah, so I decided to test it, because I still had some parts laying around, I decided to
	toss a screw into it and see what if anything happened.
	Toss a screw into?
	The little circular shimmering thing.
	That was above the ladder.
	Yeah, I mean, it was almost, I almost didn't notice it.
	I mean, basically, it was almost invisible.
	But anyhow, I tossed it in there and the screw disappeared, and then roughly half a second
	later or so, it reappeared where it would normally be landing.
	So, obviously, being a scientist, you thought, I'm sure, I'm probably nuts, and I missed it, and so you tried it again, I'm sure, right away?
	Oh yeah, I tried it several times, and I had the same thing, did the same thing every time.
	And I'm like, whoa, I got to get a video, I got to get a camcorder record this thing and it's about not even twenty
	ten seconds of within that thought
	uh... my laser over a heated and basically call fires so
	where did you get the laser i mean at this early stage you had no
	uh... well money really So, where do you even get the laser?
	Well, that's doing things on the cheap like this.
	It tends not to last very long, and that's basically what happened.
	The laser overheated.
	I more or less salvaged it.
	It was a diode laser out of a CD player.
	Okay.
	At this point, you had not yet had your run-in with the law, right?
	Uh, yeah.
	So, but yeah, long story short, basically I ended up like, well, if I gotta rebuild this thing, let's go ahead and make it bigger.
	Right.
	So what you had was blown up sort of, um, I guess there was some salvageable parts, but, uh, the laser was all gone.
	Yeah, it's like, okay, I can probably just use a CO2 laser.
	I mean, those tend to be high-powered to begin with.
	Expensive, but at least it would last longer.
	I do have this question.
	Did you come to a conclusion, you know, after throwing that screw through a few times, about what was happening to it?
	Well, I mean, at first I was thinking, okay, maybe Did I just see what I think I saw?
	At first I couldn't.
	Basically it's like, am I going nuts?
	Of course.
	Did I just hallucinate?
	But yeah, I mean, at first I was thinking, okay, maybe I'm just making it invisible or whatever.
	But then basically I didn't hear it hit the table.
	So if it's like cloaking it or whatever, it was cloaking the sound too.
	Right.
	So at this point, Mike, were you endeavoring to produce some kind of time travel?
	Is that what you thought you were doing or did you not know what you were doing?
	Well, I mean, basically, like I said, when I first discovered this, I was just making
	a fancy Jacob's Ladder slash light show.
	So.
	I didn't set out to actually go out and build a time machine.
	I was like, I want to build a time machine.
	Let's try this.
	That's not the way it happens.
	This is the way great experiments are formed.
	You know, it starts off like this.
	So here you are, a burned up laser.
	You need more parts.
	You need more power.
	Yeah.
	Obviously, you know, the screw had to have gone somewhere.
	I mean, did you even begin to theorize and think, well, where in the hell did that thing go?
	Yeah, I mean, at first I think in my mind, maybe I just made it invisible, but then I thought, well, if it was just invisible, I'd still hear it hit the table.
	See, this thing, this whole contraption was basically sitting on a makeshift table, four-by-eight sheet of plywood.
	Right.
	Even invisible is cool, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, they can actually do that these days with metamaterials, but not in 1995.
	So that would have been a major discovery anyway.
	Sure.
	So either way, it's cool.
	Time travel, disappearing, becoming invisible, going to a different spot.
	All of it is cool, and you can't account for it with any known science that I'm aware of.
	So anyway, you decided you needed bigger and stronger.
	And more powerful, everything.
	Yeah, and well, long story short, the transformer I used for this, I wound myself.
	I'm surprised I didn't catch fire, too, because only at the time, back in 1995, I didn't have internet access.
	So basically, if I wanted to learn how to do something, I had to learn trial and error.
	I mean, if I built something, it blew up.
	I knew not to build it that way.
	Yeah, winding yourself is Yeah, I mean, well, these days I have internet access.
	See, I mean, the basic formulas to build a transformer have been around since the 1840s, but in 1995, with no internet access, I didn't know about the universal EMF equation.
	So, that's basically where you start.
	Right.
	And, well, before I had internet access, I was trying to, like, call around and ask Yeah, how do I build this thing?
	I call around and ask the transformer factories, you know, I want to build this transformer.
	How do I do it?
	What performance do I use?
	They didn't want to tell me that, but they wanted to sell me a transformer.
	Of course.
	So you ended up just winding your own.
	Yep.
	Through trial and error.
	Okay.
	Well, obviously you needed more oomph.
	You needed more power.
	And I guess that's when, and bear in mind, folks, at that, how old were you then, Mike?
	Twenty-one.
	Twenty-one.
	Twenty-one years old, and I think, were you working then?
	I don't think you were.
	Yeah, actually I was living, I was working at the local, I don't even remember the name of it, Industrial Lumber Sales, I think was the name of the place.
	That's right.
	But not rich?
	No, not by a long shot.
	Okay.
	So, at some point, your 21-year-old brain said, Transformer, hmm, Transformer, hmm, Where can I get a transformer or two?
	And that's I guess when you came up with the idea of looking around for a spare power company transformer.
	Yeah, I mean, basically, it's like, well, I need more KBAs.
	It's like, oh, a pole transformer.
	Those are powerful enough.
	They certainly are.
	Anyhow, there's King City.
	At the time, I was living in Stanbury, Missouri, with King City about maybe 10 or 12 miles south of there.
	It was like half a dozen.
	I'm just standing outside the fence in the substation that powers all of King City.
	It was just outside the substation, so it's like... Obviously not in use at the time.
	No, I mean, that's... I mean, I've heard of people actually attempting to take them off poles, and I've never heard of a successful attempt from that.
	Not a good idea at all.
	And these were just what, sitting on the ground?
	I'm sitting on like a little makeshift bench outside the fence.
	Obviously, I guess they were used for spares.
	Some of them were just taken out of service due to their age.
	Sure.
	And you saw them sitting there and they were saying to you, come here, Mike, get me.
	I mean, it's like, well, if the Buckley Utility aren't going to use them, I can.
	So you loaded up, what did you do, take a truck over there?
	I paid basically a friend slash co-worker of mine, he had a pickup truck, so I basically paid him basically a hundred bucks to drive down there and help me pick these things up.
	These things aren't light.
	I mean, when the utility picks them up on the pole, they've got a crane to do it.
	They weigh like 300, 250 pounds each, so they're not light.
	How did you even get them up on the truck?
	I guess it took, how many of you?
	Three of us, basically it was him and a friend of his and me.
	And it was still basically a struggle to get him in there, but we managed.
	You know Mike, the police would usually call those people co-conspirators or something else.
	Yeah, well yeah, I mean I was basically more or less Uh, basically told them, hey, I'm the mastermind.
	Don't basically, uh, well, of course they're not going to, they'll take that into consideration, but they're not going to say, oh, you're the guy, you're the main guy that did it.
	They're just gone.
	They're not going to let everybody else go.
	Anyway, you got away with them, right?
	I ended up doing the most time, but they didn't get off scot-free.
	I see.
	Y'all, you did do some time.
	There's no question about that.
	Um, so you, uh, got these transformers and you got them back, uh, to your what apartment?
	Yeah, I was living in a house.
	In a house, okay.
	And how long did you have the Transformers before, you know, on the door?
	Probably, uh, I'm going for memory, rough memory here.
	I'm going, I want to say like anywhere from four to six weeks, maybe.
	Oh, four to six weeks.
	Okay.
	I remember taking them in January, then getting arrested like early, maybe in February, I think.
	No, I got arrested January 29th.
	Actually, it may have been December when I took those.
	Well, I don't know the exact date.
	Sure, that's fine.
	Uh, I'm now interested in the time between when you got them to your house.
	And you got arrested.
	Were you able to actually fire one of them up?
	Yeah, I mean, kind of, sort of.
	Basically, one of them I couldn't use with the rest of them, because eventually I was going to basically wire them all together.
	Well, I couldn't use... And it was like half a dozen of them, so it's like I was only going to take a couple, and I figured, eh, if I get busted, this is going to be about the same amount of time, no matter what, anyway.
	So I might as well get to take the rest.
	Basically, I got greedy.
	Well, tell people, a transformer of this sort that goes on a pole typically converts, I don't know, 14,000, 15,000 volts, you know, it depends on what kind of pole it is.
	Yeah, well, that's the reason I couldn't use one of them, so I ended up converting it into a piggy bank.
	Because it was an old one.
	I mean, it was only rated at 2,400 volts.
	They only had 2,400 volt lines in forever, like 50 years.
	So the one that you actually used was what?
	Well, a bunch of them were 7,200 slash 12,470.
	are 7200 slash 12,470 Y.
	So you're basically, you're using them backwards and then putting them in series.
	Yeah, what they do is step power line voltage down to 220, 240 for your house while I was basically feeding it backwards, putting 240 in and getting 12,000 out of it.
	That's right.
	And then going, I guess, uh, so you use only one or did you actually have them in?
	Eventually I was going to wire them.
	Basically the other, uh, I was eventually going to use four of them and basically parallel the primaries and series the secondaries.
	And get like 50,000 volts out of it that way.
	You never did that?
	No, I ended up getting busted before that.
	But you did do, I guess you got to do some experiments with one transformer wired up Uh, yep.
	And, well, basically, these days I know to use some sort of ballast or whatever, because if you short it out without a ballast, it'll draw about 20 times what it's rated for.
	Oh, yeah.
	So, yeah.
	And if it's a 25 kVA trans... Oh, wait a minute.
	I mean... No, that one was sitting in the living room.
	I was only using a... I think a 10 kVA was on the back porch at the time.
	Uh-huh.
	So... But without a ballast, 10 kVA times... That's 200,000 watts, so... Right.
	That's right.
	Anyhow, when you draw that kind of power, you end up crashing a good-sized chunk of the grid.
	I didn't crash it altogether, but I was browning out a good-sized chunk of the town, so... Yeah, which they didn't pop you for, right?
	Believe it or not, that is not exactly what caught the... Basically, I mean, they knew something... What the heck's going on with the power grid?
	That's what the local utility supervisor was going, wondering what the heck's happening, so... But you didn't do jail time for that?
	No, it was for the theft.
	It wasn't because I was making the power grid go nuts.
	Oh, I see.
	Where to go?
	Slow down, Art.
	You obviously had to feed all that voltage and current to a new Jacobs ladder that you had put together, right?
	Yeah, and I couldn't use clothes hanger wire for that because it would simply melt the wire.
	Oh, yes.
	Too much.
	Yeah, I mean, it was at, well, 12,000 volts at several amps, so.
	Okay, so what are you using now for the ladder?
	I think it was like a half-inch metal rod.
	Good idea.
	So, yeah.
	Yeah, good idea.
	Okay, what about laser?
	Did you still fire it with a laser?
	Well, that's another thing, too.
	Basically, what I ended up doing is I ended up rebuilding the CD laser, I guess you could say.
	Actually, what I did is I ended up starting another one and just got another CD player.
	Yeah, they're cheaper.
	And what I was eventually I was going to do it's like oh here's a co2 laser tube that this guy had and I was like I was going to end up eventually save my money and buy that but they're like a thousand dollars so I was going to take it take a while so yeah um so all right you fire this one up and that's the point where you sort of You've denigrated the grid of the town.
	Yeah, basically it was browning... Browning out the town.
	Yeah, well, not the whole town.
	At first I thought it was the whole town, but as many complaints I was hearing at work, it's like, hey, you gotta... because basically all my co-workers were saying, hey, you gotta be careful about that.
	My lights were going out.
	And basically those guys lived like several blocks from me, so it wasn't like a local area.
	Yeah, those kind of power outages are really bad.
	The brownouts kind of can damage stuff.
	Yeah, it was like, well, the 120 volt outlets was dropping down to 80 or 90.
	So that's good.
	And they were asked, basically, the utility supervisor was going around town asking all the industrial people what they were doing.
	Yeah, if they were doing any heavy welding or whatever.
	So the power company would know sort of the general area from which this problem was emanating.
	Yeah, well, I mean, Stanbury's a small town at the time.
	If I remember right, it only had like 12, maybe a thousand, not even a thousand people in it.
	So, they only think they had a stoplight, so.
	Certainly not after that experiment, anyway.
	All right, so Mike, what happened with this bigger ladder?
	Well, I mean, as far as making things disappear with it, I'm not sure.
	I didn't really have to basically get a chance to do a lot with it before I ended up getting busted.
	Oh my.
	But I did make a couch disappear, but that's the weird part is basically a couch disappeared, but I didn't toss in the couch, and the thing wasn't on at the time when it disappeared.
	Well, what else could you possibly attribute a missing couch to?
	Well, I mean, at the time it disappeared, I did have a few friends over and basically, I mean, we had like a little party.
	Yeah.
	I mean, basically it's like, at first I thought they were playing a prank on me because they knew about, at the time before the media caught wind of what I was doing, I only told like four or five of my closest friends about it.
	Alright, so how did you get busted?
	Did they knock on the door suddenly?
	I mean, how did this happen?
	Did somebody else get you up?
	What happened was, basically a relative of a friend of mine, he's not exactly, basically a genius, he decided to take a BB gun, a friend of mine basically loaned me his BB gun or whatever, and well, this other friend, basically a relative of a friend of mine, basically I had him over.
	I can't remember what the heck he was there for, but anyhow, long story short, he finds a BB gun and decides to shoot birds with it.
	Thing is, though, when he was doing that, he wasn't thinking of what was behind the birds, and he ended up shooting a couple holes across, and neighbors sliding their ass door across the street.
	Oh, yes.
	So I got them calling in a vandalism, so I got the cops calling in vandalism, and that got them snooping around, so... Well, did you call the cops?
	No, it wasn't me.
	It wasn't you?
	All right, all right, Mike.
	It was the neighbor that basically ended up with a few BB holes in her glass door.
	Yeah, I can imagine they would call the cops.
	All right, pull tight, Mike.
	Stay right where you are.
	We've got a break.
	It will be back.
	To call Midnight in the Desert, please dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	Do not call yet.
	Repeat, do not call yet.
	Just rest and listen.
	My guest is Mike Madman Markham, addressing the legend properly.
	Mike, welcome back.
	Yeah, thanks for having me, Art.
	All right, so here we are, somebody with a BB gun, committing vandalism.
	Somebody calls the cops.
	The cops come, look at the vandalism, and then how do they get you?
	Well, these Transformers, they're pretty big.
	They're about the size of a trash can.
	Oh, yeah.
	I guess I don't know if the local utility already reported the transformer stolen or whatever, but not just everybody has a utility pole transformer sitting in their living room, so they're probably wondering what the heck is going on here.
	So they were able to look in?
	What did they do, knock on your door?
	Yeah, they came in with a search warrant, searching for a BB gun.
	I guess they were, I guess, well, that was actually, I think, if I remember right, the Transformers were on the search warrant, too, so.
	Oh.
	And, well, it ain't no effort to hide them, so.
	Well, they'd be, I don't know where you'd put them.
	I don't know where you'd put them, anyway.
	They're too big.
	Yeah, I mean, I'm so, long story short, I basically got busted red-handed, so.
	Okay.
	Alright, so, in you go.
	They sweat you, I'm sure, for your buddies' names and all that kind of stuff, and then eventually you have a court date, right?
	Yeah.
	Ended up doing 60 days in jail and five years probation.
	Five years probation.
	And that brings another thing to mind.
	I mean, if it's a Class C felony, what's the value of them?
	Yeah.
	Anyway, somehow I remember your parole officer actually called my show.
	Yeah, that was actually the arresting officer, Tom, what was his name?
	I can't remember.
	So, yeah, yeah, I mean, well, yeah, I mean, it's a small town.
	Everybody knew everybody long before all this went down, so.
	Okay, well, so he's part of the legend now.
	Yeah, and I didn't, yeah, it's like, uh, and I didn't make a, basically a resist arrest, and basically, we didn't hold, we don't hold, he was just doing his job, so I don't want to hold a grudge against him, so.
	Yeah.
	So, the power company gets their transformers back.
	You go away for 60 days.
	That must have screwed up your life, but good.
	Because by then, I don't know, you probably don't have a job anymore.
	Yeah, my former employer thought I contaminated his plant with PCBs, so I don't think he wanted me to come back after that.
	Alright, so that's the early Madman story, and I, of course, I thought And I called you madman because I was convinced you were going to absolutely fry yourself alive and turn into a french fry.
	There are other people who have been involved in time travel, Mike, that I've had on the show, and honest to God, Mike, they're gone.
	I don't know where they are.
	Whether it's Teeter or Anderson, others that we've had on the show, they're gone.
	I mean, they're gone.
	Can't find them.
	Anyway.
	We need to come up to date from the story back then.
	I know that after I did the show with you, you gave out your phone number and address and stuff on the air, right?
	Yeah.
	By the way, that was you.
	You volunteered to do that, remember?
	Yep, yep.
	I didn't make you do that.
	No.
	I want that on the record.
	Yeah, I figured out what bad could happen.
	Now you know!
	Yeah, yeah.
	And good!
	I mean, it was good and bad.
	That's what you learn through experience.
	Yeah, and so at this point, you're out of jail, you want to build something even bigger and better, and there was a good aspect of your being on the show.
	I mean, you got donations, you got money from people.
	Uh, and help from people.
	You've got some trans... I believe you've got some transformers, right?
	Yeah.
	Uh, yeah, to, uh, transformer laminations so I could build my own, so... Right.
	Right.
	That's, that's a lot of help, actually.
	Yeah, I mean, actually, yeah, I mean, I got, I got some money out of it, but most of it was actually equipment, so... And I believe somehow you also came up with a warehouse.
	Yeah, that was the beauty of it.
	Basically, this guy said, well, you pay the young electric bill, but basically right now it's empty.
	You can do what you want here for a few months.
	So it's like, okay, cool.
	Thanks.
	Were you yet re-employed at that point?
	Yeah, I can't remember the name of the place, but yes, I did have a job.
	When I got out of jail, I ended up, well, I was kind of a pariah in Stanbury, so... Why were you a pariah?
	I mean, it's a small town.
	There's not that many jobs there to begin with, so I ended up moving to St.
	Joseph's when I got out of jail, so... Well, you know, I would think after the show you would have been almost a hero in town.
	But you say pariah.
	Well, not everybody's, like... Oh, he's the nutcase that built the time machine, so... Yeah.
	Okay.
	Alright, so we're now at a new location, and now you've got a warehouse.
	And you've got enough money to be dangerous.
	So you, at this point, start building what?
	Well, long story short, I realized that actually I did a lot of thinking in jail.
	When I was in jail, what could have caused this?
	I mean, 60 days in jail, that gives me a lot of time to think.
	It does.
	So I ended up Well, basically, long story short, I realized that it would be more efficient if I used magnetic, because I was thinking maybe, okay, maybe it's rotating plasma that causes this.
	Right.
	So I figured, okay, maybe it'll be more efficient if I use, instead of using basically heat from a laser in a cold room, the differential, the temperature difference between those two to stir the plasma, maybe even more efficient if I use the magnetic field to stir it.
	That's what I ended up doing.
	Use the magnetic field to do what?
	Basically, in simple terms, this thing looks like a plasma tornado.
	How do you form a plasma tornado?
	Well, basically this thing looks like a...
	I think on your second... when I told you about this during the second interview, like
	back in late 96, early 97, I can't remember when it was.
	Basically, it looks like, you called it a Stargate.
	Well, it doesn't exactly look like a Stargate SG-1, because for one, it's vertical instead of horizontal.
	Okay, but again, what formed it?
	Well, what I ended up using was a bunch of cascaded transformers.
	Cascaded transformers.
	So how much, at that point, how much voltage were you producing?
	Three million volts at one amp.
	There was 24 phases, so... Three million volts at an amp?
	Yep.
	Good God.
	That's enough?
	Yeah, that was basically a big spark.
	And you were pulling this from the power company.
	This time, I presume... No, not all of it from the power company.
	Basically, I had generators too.
	Basically, I was trying to avoid raising the stink with the utility.
	I learned from that, too.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So, you built a large Jacob's Ladder.
	I mean, this time, how big?
	Well, at this point, it wasn't really a purpose Jacob's Ladder.
	Basically, what it was was basically two cylinders, one cylinder inside the other.
	with a magnetic, with another basically a circle of magnetic, uh, electromagnets around it.
	Stirring it, basically, so basically you got a bunch of plasma, like, inside of it, with a magnetic field rotating
	it.
	You know, what you are describing, I'm sure you've heard stories of the Philadelphia Experiment, right?
	Yeah.
	Well, they described a similar electronic setup with regard to the rotating magnetic fields.
	Is this where... I mean, did you get any of that story?
	I mean, is that where some of your idea came from?
	Not directly.
	I mean, I've heard of it, basically, but I didn't know... I knew they used RF.
	Well, basically, I was at the other side of the spectrum.
	I was using low frequencies.
	So, in the past, it wasn't just like from my original Jacob's Ladder, it was just plain old 60 Hz sine wave DC that you get from any outlet.
	Well, this was, I was using square waves, where I could actually, it was easy, controlling the duty cycle, it was easy to control the voltage that way.
	Right.
	Because you can't find, you can't really find, it's hard to find Variax rated at megawatts.
	Man, I'll tell you, if you were using square waves, I'll bet the ham operators heard you for miles.
	Well, that was the beauty of the warehouse.
	It was metal, so it acted as a third aid cage.
	Okay, did you wind all these electromagnets yourself?
	Uh, yep.
	So you must have been like in that warehouse every day, every day, every day, working.
	Oh yeah, I mean, basically, technically I lived in St.
	Joseph, Missouri, but the warehouse itself, if I remember right, was in Overland Park, Kansas, which is basically a suburb of Kansas City.
	So yeah, and that was a long commute, so most of the time I just hung out, most of the time I just ate and slept at the warehouse.
	Right, got it.
	3 million volts at an amp.
	So, you've got these rotating magnetic fields, and then you've got, you said, a cylinder inside a cylinder.
	Yeah, instead of just two metal rods that spark in between, basically, at any one time, there's actually 23 sparks, because it's actually each one of those 3 million volts.
	There are 15 degrees.
	There's 24 phases, 15 degrees out of phase.
	It's like three phase industrial power, but 20 degrees out of phase for that.
	Right.
	Well, this is like 24 phases, 15 degrees.
	Wow.
	Okay, so two of these separated in a Jacobs-like ladder configuration, right?
	Yeah.
	And then these rotating magnetic fields.
	By now, you're using a lot of power.
	A lot of power.
	Yeah.
	I mean, basically, I couldn't... I mean, the warehouse had, if I remember right, the warehouse had 400-amp three-phase 480 available, but even that couldn't do it all by itself, so... Didn't you, at some point, think, look, what I'm working with here is not just a little dangerous, it's Kill me dead dangerous.
	Oh yeah, I mean, it only takes... One mistake.
	...50 to 100 milliamps to kill you, and this is an amp, so... Yeah, that's right.
	And it only takes a minute, and with that kind of current, it only takes maybe a couple thousand volts to get that kind of current flowing through you, and this is 3 million, so... Oh yeah, I think in the electric chair it's like 2,500 volts, something like that.
	Yeah.
	This is 3 million volts at an amp.
	Alright, so...
	Um, it took you how long to build this thing to the point where you were ready to test?
	Oh, jeez.
	Uh, I would say probably 18 months, I guess.
	18 months.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, but basically, uh, the guy that owned the warehouse, he originally, he, uh, well, the deal was like maybe three months or so.
	And it ended up, he kept it like, well, this is pretty cool.
	Okay.
	I'll go in.
	Let's just stay a little longer.
	So he actually came and checked out your act?
	Oh yeah, I mean, I figured, well, he's nice enough to let me in my own warehouse, I'd let him out, basically let him watch too, so.
	Sure, sure.
	Did he want to see the big test?
	Um, well yeah, I mean, him and basically everybody that donated stuff, I more or less let them, more or less let them in on the project, so.
	Okay.
	Wow.
	Um, alright, so.
	I remember talking to you for the big test.
	I really wanted to come out there myself.
	I've got to be honest with you, Mike, I thought you were dead for a long time.
	We are a little bit, but honestly I thought you were dead.
	I thought you were gone.
	I was pretty sure you'd fried yourself or that you had been, and I thought about this too Mike, that you might have been successful And you might be in a different time.
	Anyway, let's continue.
	So the big test comes.
	All these people are watching.
	You fire the generators up.
	You've got the incoming power.
	And what was your test going to be?
	Well, at first I was tossing basically hamsters and guinea pigs in it.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	I mean, at the time, I had basically almost infinite risk tolerance, I guess you could put it.
	Infinite risk tolerance.
	Well, anyway, okay, so hamsters and guinea pigs, how did they fare?
	I mean, what happened to them?
	Well, basically, basically like the original experiment where I made a screw disappear for half a second, well, these guinea pigs, they were Disappearing for anywhere from one to two minutes, and they were basically either 150 and 150 yards east or west of where they disappeared.
	East or west of the point of disappearance, but not north or south?
	Nope.
	Basically, as far as why, I'm thinking it has something to do with the Earth's magnetic field.
	That's the only thing I can think of.
	Well, that's interesting.
	And they would show up how far away from the test point?
	Between 50 and 150 yards.
	So people had to go out and hunt for these things?
	Yeah, pretty much.
	It's like, OK, this disappeared.
	Let's see where it showed up at.
	Yeah, I mean, at first, what I did was I did some low-powered tests and basically made it disappear farther and farther away.
	Right.
	so uh...
	and yeah i'll bet all that so that you have a lot of witnesses as we expect
	basically that if the further away was the harder it was to find them sure
	uh... but i mean you have witnesses uh...
	at that point or not yes you did okay
	yeah so i was actually getting video of all this stuff so so you have that video
	well that's well that's what sucks uh...
	We'll get to that part eventually.
	Alright, anyway, you were getting video of it and you were tossing these animals through.
	How big was this thing at this point?
	It was basically, going from memory, I would say about the outer diameter of it is about 17 feet, maybe 15 feet tall.
	Really?
	It's 35 feet off the ground.
	Basically, well, 3 million volts is difficult to insulate.
	Now, basically having, I was actually part of the reason for the 24 phase stuff, because basically adjacent phases are a lot less voltage than 3 million.
	But in reference to ground, it's still 3 million volts, so, and 3 million volts will jump 27 feet, so.
	Oh my god, so thirty, thirty-five feet, you say, above?
	Yeah, it was raised, the whole contraption, well, the hot part of it was, yeah, thirty-five feet off the floor.
	And the thing itself was fifteen, basically, from the bottom of it to the top of it was about fifteen feet, so.
	So these people and you could observe these animals disappearing, and then find them, and when you found them, were they intact?
	Yeah, I mean they were perfectly fine as far as I could tell.
	I mean obviously they can't talk and report me and tell me how they feel or anything.
	But as far as like physical condition, they were fine.
	At that point, Mike, I'm sure you began to think we're in another realm here.
	I mean what we're doing with these animals at this point is Is what?
	They disappear, they reappear elsewhere.
	So, did they travel in time?
	They certainly traveled in space, and they certainly disappeared.
	So, at this point, what are we talking about?
	Well, at first I didn't know if it was... See, that's the problem.
	Basically, sometimes it took hours to find these things.
	And I don't know if that was because they were gone for hours, and we just happened to now find them, or basically they were gone that whole time?
	I understand, right.
	I mean, the smaller scale stuff, what was happening, basically they disappeared and then they reappeared again.
	Right, so it's hard to tell if they ran from where they appeared.
	Yeah.
	Outside and... Well, I mean, with the inanimate objects, basically... I mean, at first I was trying, like, basically things like baseballs, fruit, stuff like that, so... And the same thing happened to the inanimate objects?
	They showed up out... Yeah, I mean, obviously that stuff's not gonna run, so... No, but where did it show up?
	I mean, the small-scale, the low-power tests, basically anywhere from a few feet to a few yards from where they disappeared.
	So the higher the voltage and power, the further away they would go?
	Yeah, well, I mean, keep in mind, plus, well, that's another thing I was trying to figure out was what exactly controls where this stuff shows up at.
	Was it the voltage or the power, or was it the speed of the rotating magnetic field, or what?
	All right, and that's where we're going to leave it.
	Wow.
	I'm beginning to learn new things now.
	I was sort of caught up to a point, but there's much more to come.
	Mike Madman Markham is my guest.
	I believe he's achieved time travel.
	To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your phalanges and call 1952-225-5274.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	Hold your calls.
	Hold your calls.
	Everybody, Mike, Madman, Markham is my guest.
	And we have now covered the early years, I guess is really the way to put it.
	So, Mike, welcome back.
	Somebody asks a question.
	It goes back, Otis, wanting to know, how do BB gunshots warrant a search warrant?
	Well, remember, on that search warrant also were the Transformers, which means Either they knew ahead of time.
	Did you ever find out, Mike, did they know ahead of time or did they go over there and say, oh, look at that.
	Let's go get a search warrant.
	Well, yeah, I mean, here's just a guess, but I'm guessing here's my guess is that The guy that got busted for the BB thing, he more or less spilled the beans on me so he could get a lighter sentence or something, I don't know.
	That's what my guess is.
	I never have figured out exactly what happened though.
	Alright, do me a favor and back about an inch away from the phone.
	It's really a good connection, actually.
	Okay, can you hear me now?
	I can, I hear you fine.
	It just eliminates the popping.
	Okay.
	Alright, so now, here we are, you're experimenting with animals.
	uh... they're turning up elsewhere they're disappearing and then turning up elsewhere so you've got to sit down and start i'm sure you were asking yourself okay so what the hell's happening here what have i what am i doing to these creatures obviously they're okay but is it time travel is it just shifting is it disappearance and and shifting of location or I mean, you had to begin to wonder about the theory of what was going on.
	Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, the low-power tests, they were actually, well, they weren't just stopping once, like, disappear in the center of the tornado and reappear, like, nearby right away.
	Sometimes they would disappear for a minute, sometimes two minutes.
	So... Well, when did you begin considering, I remember interviewing you, And you were considering yourself.
	You were considering trying this thing yourself.
	And that's what I last remember.
	And that's why I thought you were dead.
	You know, I mean, well, I mean, I got pretty confident.
	I mean, I got pretty bold and confident after so many successful tests.
	There was one test where I tried a grapefruit or an orange.
	I can't remember what it was.
	It was something similar to that.
	Some citrus fruit.
	And that was never retrieved, so I don't know if it ended up in space, disintegrated or what.
	But I tossed that, if I remember right, I tossed in like 200 objects, animals, all together there was like 200 some odd tests.
	so well i know that warehouse one and and retrieved under her
	energy about pixels and that that warehouse was a small like ozone
	all i got you idea basically added there's uh... well in the room for five member right or near the
	top of the roof there was like ventilation uh...
	fans and yet we had to keep those running to keep from poisoning
	everybody from the with nitrous oxide so i think that he Alright, so now take me forward, as you will, because I kind of don't know what happened next.
	I just, I thought you were going to jump into this thing, and I thought you were going to fry alive, and that's like the last thing I remember.
	Well, basically, eventually, I ended up testing it on myself because, like I said earlier, basically hamsters and guinea pigs can't talk.
	No.
	You had to give an awful lot of thought before trying it yourself.
	I mean, for one thing, a hamster or a guinea pig is really small compared to a human.
	Yeah, that's a concern because the inside diameter of this thing is only like five feet across.
	And keep in mind, the top of this thing is like 50 feet off the ground, so... And, well, if it doesn't work, I jump in, and if it doesn't work, I'll probably break my legs or my neck.
	Absolutely.
	So there's so many points of failure.
	You could jump through and keep going, and as you point out, hit the floor and break probably your neck and be dead.
	Or you could jump through, part of you would touch the wrong thing, and What would have happened to you if you'd done that?
	Well, as far as the electricity goes, most of it, I wasn't about to test it through and find out, but the inner electrode, I guess you could say, was grounded.
	Usually, if you touch a grounded object with that kind of voltage, you won't necessarily get the whole 3 million, basically 3 megawatts, but you'll still get a piece of it and probably enough to kill you.
	So you climbed up, and I can't even imagine.
	I mean, you had everything turned on, humming like crazy, I'm sure.
	Mm-hmm.
	And you probably, what were you on, a ladder?
	A cherry picker.
	A cherry picker.
	So here you are on a cherry picker, and you've got to figure out how to jump out of the cherry picker and through.
	Yep, and I ended up just crawling on top of the bucket.
	Yeah.
	And how long did you sit there and think about it before you jumped?
	Well, that's the thing.
	I figured if I think about it too long, I'm going to check it out here.
	I mean, normally, like I said, I had almost infinite risk tolerance at the time.
	I mean, if somebody dared me to do something, no matter what it was, I'd probably do it.
	I mean, a lot of 20-year-olds are like that.
	They are.
	And a lot of them never make 30.
	Yeah.
	Well, why not?
	I mean, this is an obvious question to me.
	thought about a minute or two they've been a terrible but make sure uh... the cameras
	records like i said about it
	thought about it too much i was said okay this is dumb and i'm did i'm not
	doing it mhm
	so well why not i mean this is an obvious question to me
	i would i would have some kind of cushioning you know like they do with stuntmen where they have
	cardboard boxes and other stuff so that if you did
	hit the floor you might Well, keep in mind, the only thing insulating the bottom of this was air.
	If I stuck anything below, there's between the bottom of that thing and the floor is basically 3 million volts trying to get to ground.
	It basically burned anything you set under, basically, you put underneath it.
	Oh, that's right.
	I mean, even with 35 feet of distance, you get a lot of corona.
	Absolutely.
	Well, 35 feet is definitely enough to kill you if you land the wrong way and probably kill you no matter what.
	Yeah.
	All right, so you climb up on the bucket and you jump.
	And then what?
	Well, long story short, it feels like I got hit with a flashbang and I wake up and I'm 800 miles east of there and two years later.
	So that's basically, there ain't no other way to put it.
	800 miles east and two years gone.
	Yeah, well, basically what I did, I more or less, well, it's not very scientific in hindsight, but what I did is cranked everything max, basically to the max.
	So, because I wanted to make sure that it actually leaped, rather than hit the floor.
	floor.
	So when you woke up, did you have memory of what you had done?
	I mean, what condition were you in?
	Well, when I came through the other side, so to speak, I had total amnesia.
	That EMF and all that magnetism basically messed with my brain.
	I'm sure it would.
	I believe like other mammals, we have magnetite, don't we?
	In our brains?
	Well, I mean, yeah, it's basically your brain's electrochemical, so basically, yeah, magnets will mess with electric fields.
	So how could you possibly have gone 200 miles, and it was east, you say?
	Yeah, well, yeah, this was in Overland Park, Kansas, and I ended up, well, the nearest town I landed near was like Fairfield, Ohio.
	You can google map that.
	That's roughly 800 miles east.
	800 miles?
	It took me quite a while to remember what the heck I did and then I figured out, okay, where the heck am I?
	And where were you?
	I mean, when you woke up, were you on the ground?
	Were you in the middle of a shopping center?
	Yeah, I was on the ground, basically in the middle of a field.
	Oh, that's actually at least lucky, I guess.
	Middle of a field.
	Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it rides the Earth's gravitational field, so I don't end up in space.
	Which was basically one of my other concerns if I tried to leap too far.
	Of course.
	Oh my goodness, so here you are coming, your clothes were okay, you were okay, you were stunned?
	Yeah, I mean, I was saying, okay, basically, I didn't, yeah, I wasn't on, other than basically my nervous system all screwed up.
	It was basically the equivalent of getting hit with a flashbang for, I'd say, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour.
	I mean, I couldn't, basically, for a minute, I couldn't even remember my own name, so.
	For a minute.
	I get that.
	OK, that's shock.
	You were in shock, clearly.
	How quickly did your memory begin to come back?
	I would say probably an hour.
	It took me probably an hour or so to get my bearings.
	And it's like, OK.
	I mean, in 1995, I don't remember if they had GPS or not.
	I know, well, actually, this is not.
	Well, OK, that's another thing, too.
	Basically, I did this in 1998.
	And on the other side, when I landed in Ohio, that was 2000.
	2000?
	Yeah, so basically not only did I jump 800 miles, but I skipped over two years, too.
	Actually, a little over two years.
	This is all the time I thought you were dead.
	From everybody else's point of view, for two years I didn't exist.
	I mean, if you basically do a social security search on me, For two years, they won't be a peep.
	Oh, I believe it.
	Trust me, I believe it.
	I searched for you.
	I looked for you, and you did not exist.
	It's true.
	So, where to pick up on this story?
	Alright, so, now you're slowly beginning to remember, but at this point, you don't have a home.
	You're, what, 800 miles away from where you ought to be, or where you started.
	And as your memory slowly comes back, I mean, what do you do?
	Do you go up to somebody's door, knock on the door, or wander into a town, or what?
	Yeah, eventually, well, it's like, okay, well, it's in the middle of a field.
	I figured, okay, just maintain one direction.
	Eventually, you'll hit a road.
	Well, at least if I get a road, I'll have some idea where I am.
	Basically, long story short, I ended up meandering my way to Fairfield.
	Which is, well, it's not exactly a small town, it's just north of Cincinnati, so.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I ended up basically, okay, from Fairfield, it's like, okay, I know where I am now, so.
	And long story short, I ended up going from Fairfield to a homeless shelter, because keep in mind, well, after a few hours, it's like, okay, oh, I remember my name now, so.
	I mean, like, did you have your wallet with you?
	I presume you probably removed any metallic objects before you jumped, I would hope.
	Yeah, yeah, which included my, uh, which included my ID, my credit cards, and all that.
	So, because it wouldn't have been able to, these magnetic fields, they would have been erased anyway, so.
	So, you didn't even have ID on you?
	Nope, I had to go to the DM, basically, eventually, once I remember my name, I mean, after a couple days, I remember my social security number, so I had to go to the DMV and get another one.
	Holy smokes!
	So here you are, utterly homeless, without ID, you slowly begin to get ID again, you're staying in a homeless shelter, and you have no memories of those years.
	No, I mean, basically, I mean, it's weird.
	Basically, it relates to, I mean, I could still remember, like, old memories, but basically the newer stuff, like from the previous five years or whatever, I couldn't remember squat, so.
	Like I said, for a while, I couldn't even remember my name, but eventually I got that back, so.
	And actually, that was the first thing I got back, and then I remembered, it started coming back to me, so.
	So weird.
	All right, hold tight, Mike.
	Short break.
	Mike Madman Markham is my guest.
	This man has traveled... in time?
	Get a shiver in the dark, it's raining in the park, meantime
	Down the river you stop and you hold everything I love you, all I got to be is a fool behind me
	All it's got to take is something more To make it blow away, blow away, blow away
	Wanna take a ride?
	From the High Desert and the Great American Southwest, this is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on The Dark Side.
	Dark Matter Digital Network. To call the show, dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	Respectively, 18 to 20 years later, this is Mike Madman Markham. All right, Mike,
	this is such an incredible story, and I really do, again, I want to add myself that I searched
	so hard for you, and you were just gone. You know, that was, that was, well, that's,
	that's another weird thing, too. Sometimes, you know, I'm sure everybody's googled their own name
	before, but yeah, I guess there's probably, there was hundreds of other people looking for me, too,
	so. Yes, yes. When you, when you were picking yourself up off the ground, Dale,
	I get these computer messages, and they're helpful, wants to know, did you need a shave?
	Um, no.
	No, I mean, from my point of view, I was only gone a couple seconds, I think.
	I mean, the closest approximation I can think of, as far as experience myself, I mean, it felt like I got hit with a flashbang.
	That's the closest approximation of it.
	Yeah, fair enough.
	You know, a lot would have changed if your body had actually spent a linear two years.
	You'd be shaggy, you'd have a long beard, you'd have long fingernails.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, that's the thing.
	From my point of view, it only took a couple seconds.
	Okay, so when did you first learn, oh my God, it's the year 2000?
	At the homeless shelter.
	Long story short, I ended up, did I already mention we got to the homeless shelter in downtown Cincinnati?
	Uh, you told me you went there, yes.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, yeah, eventually I made myself to a homeless shelter in Cincinnati, and well, every day you get a newspaper, they get a newspaper there, and it's like, wait a minute, this is 2000.
	So at this point, you've got to either figure, no, there's only one thing you can figure, and that is that you, in fact, traveled in time.
	Because otherwise, the things I just talked about would have been true.
	You would have been shaggy, you would have been Had giant long fingernails, and so you did travel in time.
	And when did that hit you?
	That, my God, I really did it.
	It took actually, when I seen that, well, the time travel movies don't really, basically, they don't really depict it accurately, the reactions of people when they realize they've done that.
	I mean, I was in shock for a while.
	Well, you know, movies need a little romance and drama and stuff like that.
	So you have to expect they're going to mess with things.
	But it must have dawned on you that, my God, I actually did it.
	I traveled in time.
	And then, I guess, so you began to establish yourself?
	You got an idea again?
	Did you get a job?
	Did you stay in the area?
	Yeah, I got a few.
	I had a few, basically got a few temporary jobs.
	Eventually, I got most of them.
	I remember back, I mean, there's still, even today, there's still holes in it.
	So, long story short, I ended up taking a basically So you take a greyhound home.
	I'm sure you want to go back to the warehouse and see what's what, right?
	going back to basically catching a Greyhound back there.
	So you take a Greyhound home. I'm sure you want to go back to the warehouse and see what's what, right?
	Yeah, and go back there and basically go back there and it's gone. Basically everything.
	You don't mean the warehouse?
	Well, no. Keep in mind, this was back in 2000, like 15 years ago.
	So I go back there and the warehouse is there, but basically all my stuff inside is gone.
	Gone?
	That's a lot of stuff to be gone.
	Yeah, I mean, well, two years, I mean, that's plenty of time for, I don't know what happened to it, I don't know Because basically I was going to try to hunt down all my donors, and basically that's another thing too, I couldn't remember the people that donated.
	And a lot of people did, I guess, donate, huh?
	Yeah, like I said, probably 25 or 30 people.
	Alright, so here you are, you're back at the warehouse, and it's empty, all your stuff is gone.
	And I'm wondering, okay, what happened to it?
	Yeah, it's like... And then also you had... And basically I was gone, like, trying to fill in the past two years of what happened, and with everything, to hold her and plan it, so... Yeah, I have to sit down and read the New York Times or something, I suppose.
	Anyway, did you contact the owner of the warehouse to try to find out what had occurred, or what next?
	Well, that's the thing, I couldn't remember the guy's name, so...
	So, we're not going to reveal where you are now.
	We're just saying you're in a secret, secreted away location, which happens to be really true.
	My producer got you to a special place for this interview tonight, right?
	Don't say where it is.
	Yeah, I mean, I kind of want to keep that to myself.
	Like I said, live and learn.
	Yes, live and learn, indeed.
	Um, so what is ahead for Madman now?
	Um, well, basically, eventually I'm going to try to rebuild that thing and test and see.
	Basically, I don't know if I want to do that again or not.
	Like I said, that kind of messed with my head.
	If you build again, and I have this really strong feeling that you will, Um, would you build to a even larger scale?
	Would you, in other words, attempt to prove to the scientific community what you say is true?
	Or what would your objective be if you build again?
	Um, well, that was basically, keep in mind, when everything, when I said everything's gone, even my My documentation for this thing, I don't know what happened to it.
	Even the time machine itself, even if I still had all my notes and stuff from it, basically I could give it to the world and say, here's what I did, repeat it.
	If you can't repeat it, the whole thing is kind of useless.
	Well, not really.
	Not useless, but it would be wonderful to be able to document this.
	There have been some Physicists, theoretical physicists, for example, that commented in the article that we have up on the website about you and about everything that occurred, and they didn't feel like you traveled in time, but they didn't know what happened on the other hand, either.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, they brought up that, well, if this is true, then why don't they create vortexes with every lightning strike?
	Yeah, but that's not fair.
	That's not fair.
	Yeah, I mean, you can't really stir a lightning strike.
	It's there and gone so quick.
	That's right.
	That's exactly right.
	But your magnetic fields could essentially stir it.
	And you were almost soup.
	Or fried chicken.
	Yeah, well, that's the thing about it.
	I didn't even have one single RF burn mark or anything on me.
	I mean, the magnetic fields mess with my brain, so better than that.
	Do you remember enough of your system that if you wanted to rebuild it now, you could?
	Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's not 100%, but I would say probably between 90 and 95%, so the rest I could basically do the trial and error thing and figure it out again.
	Do you think that time travel in either direction is possible or only forward?
	Well, here's the thing.
	had to pay cash for everything.
	Right.
	So...
	Mike, do you think that time travel in either direction is possible or only forward?
	Well, here's the thing.
	From my previous experiments, going in reverse, because at first it's like I tried to hold
	the portal open, so to speak, and basically that way I can walk through and then basically
	walk back come back to where I started again.
	Well, every time I've tried that, I've crashed the power grid.
	It takes way too much energy.
	Basically, I agree with all the other physicists as far as that goes.
	Basically, backwards time travel.
	Well, let's put it this way.
	Basically, time travel does not work the way Hollywood depicts it.
	Oh, I've got that.
	I mean, yeah, you can basically go backwards in time, but not to any point you pick.
	I mean, basically, I was like, oh, cool, I want to go see Christ's crucifixion.
	Well, unless you build a time machine at 0 or 4 B.C.
	or whatever, actually 33 A.D.
	or whatever, unless you actually build the machine at that time and have it powered up at that time, you can't return to that time.
	If I build the machine, long story short, if I have the machine powered up tomorrow, I can't come back to today.
	So those two years, it's like they just don't exist for you, which means that you did not age during those two years.
	Yeah, I mean, long story short, as far as the time travel aspect of it is, it basically works the same way as general relativity.
	All your long stories are, I'm noticing, short.
	So we've got a good long show.
	Not that long, so you can make long stories medium.
	That'd be all right.
	All right, hold tight.
	Mad Man Markham is my guest.
	18 to 20 years.
	Hey, that's a clear difference between our interviews.
	Two years, the man was gone.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Good night.
	To call us from outside the U.S.
	and Canada only, use Skype with a headset mic, if on a computer, and call MITV55.
	That's MITV55.
	All right, so what we're gonna do is open the lines.
	Well, actually, let me note two things.
	Number one, I am now on Periscope.
	I promise that.
	And frequently on Fridays, we do a sort of a A periscope session, so hello there, if you're watching.
	Generally seeing the back of my head can't be very exciting, but you can see the show kind of in motion from that angle, so I set it up that way rather than facing me and my ugly mug, no point in that.
	So, we have classic stuff here, Mike Madman Markham.
	You have now heard his story, I think, to date.
	I'm sure there's much more to say.
	For example, Mike, here's a question.
	Somebody wants to know why, for example, weren't the police there or somebody to stop you from jumping through?
	They had to know that you were building up to it, right?
	Well, that's the thing.
	After all the publicity, basically the only people that knew about it is the people that donated.
	So I never told anybody else.
	Not the people at work, nobody.
	Well, that really does make sense to me because somebody surely would have stopped you, right?
	I don't know if they would have or not.
	I mean, technically, it'd be kind of hard to prove it was a suicide attempt.
	I mean, it went away exactly when it wasn't.
	They might have looked at that equipment and figured out it was going to be a suicide, no matter what.
	Hold on one sec, Mike.
	All right, so phone lines are open, folks.
	Here it is.
	Finally, they're open.
	You can ask questions if you would like, and I'm sure you have questions.
	This is a man who's traveled in time.
	9-5-2-2-2-5-5-2-7-8.
	Put a 1 in front of that.
	1-9-5-2-2-2-5-5-2-7-8.
	If you're calling on Skype, M-I-T-D-5-1, or outside North America, M-I-T-D-5-5.
	They probably would have, I think, Madman figured you were going to do yourself in, and somebody would have stopped you, I'm sure.
	Well, nobody did.
	Nobody did, as it turns out, but had they... I mean, if you check out... I mean, there's plenty of YouTube videos where everybody... I mean, they actually have suicide videos on YouTube.
	Really?
	Yeah, I mean... Yeah.
	I mean, there's just about everything on YouTube.
	I mean, if you look hard enough, but there's all sorts of weird things on YouTube, including that stuff, and including some guys standing on top of electric trains basically just reaching up and grabbing the
	25,000 volts of power of the train and when you do that, it's actually like a bug.
	That's right. Somebody wants to know, because there was a rumor, Mike,
	that you did an experiment with a cat.
	Is that true or not?
	Um, no, I don't know where that came from.
	Probably somebody probably made that up due to lack of information because basically after the first round of publicity, I just, I more or less made up my mind.
	It's like, Oh God, I can't stand being a celebrity.
	So yeah, you don't, I know you don't seek out fame.
	I'm very well aware that you don't seek out fame.
	Um, Mike, And so it's an honor to have you on the show.
	It really is.
	In a way, yeah.
	Not everybody, I mean, like every Hollywood actress or actor, actress, whatever, I mean, not all of them basically like the limelight.
	So, I'm kind of like, I compare myself to Jodie Foster.
	I mean, I don't mind basically every now and then, but as far as People knocking on my door 24-7.
	It's really, to me, it's disconcerting having somebody I don't know run up to me and ask for my autograph.
	I know the feeling.
	Go to restaurants and people want to... Anyway, listen, Mike.
	People want to know, if you were to do this again, I mean, let's think about it for a second.
	You could conceivably hopscotch into the future Again and again and again, maybe you could figure out a way to do it with less trauma to your own person, and you know, you would still be a young man in the year 20-whatever you want.
	Yeah, I mean, like I said, the problem is it's a one-way trip.
	I mean, it's like the same thing as using relativity.
	Yes.
	Well, it is a one-way trip.
	Well, that's the advantage of everybody.
	It's already been scientifically proven you can use gravity to dilate time.
	Well, basically I'm using electromagnetism, which is 10 to the 30th times stronger.
	Right.
	I don't need, basically, a black hole to do this.
	You know they're getting ready to try to create a black hole at CERN.
	Do you have any thoughts on what might happen when they do?
	Well, they're going to be, basically, I'm with everybody else, like, as far as all the other physicists, as far as that goes.
	They'll be so small, they'll evaporate almost immediately.
	I hope you're right.
	I really hope that's what happens.
	Well, I mean, if not, they'll swallow the Earth at nearly the speed of light, and we won't even see it coming.
	Yeah, it'll be over.
	I like that.
	All right.
	On Skype, you are on the air with Madman.
	Hi.
	I think it's somebody named Torch.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, how's it going, Art?
	Welcome back.
	Thank you.
	I wanted to ask, the key thing that you really need the most is funding, right?
	Funding or equipment.
	OK, well, if you can travel into the future or even if you can travel into the past, Wouldn't the number one thing be to find out what the
	numbers are going to be for tomorrow and come back and tell those numbers and you'd be able to
	fund yourself with millions of dollars?
	Well, I mean, obviously that's the first thing I thought.
	When I first, I actually had a reporter ask me that back in 1995.
	It's like, what were you planning to do with this thing?
	When I actually told him, I was going, oh, I'm going to go into the future, get the lottery numbers, and then come back and give them to myself.
	I mean, I actually, when I told him that, I was actually laughing when I said it.
	It was a joke.
	I mean, I didn't think they would take it seriously.
	They hung on every word I said.
	That would be the key to do, though, don't you think?
	Well, the thing stopping me from doing that, though, is I don't know how to go in reverse.
	I mean, like I said, I can't go back before I turn this thing on.
	The best I could do is, like, if I turn it on today, I can come back to go to tomorrow and then come back to today, but I have to keep the thing on the whole time.
	Is there any way you can send back information?
	It takes so much energy, I can't do it.
	It can't be done.
	Yeah, he's asking if there's any way you can send back information.
	Um, I haven't really looked into that.
	I mean, I've heard of, basically, I've heard of other people, uh, basically, like, uh, use, like, uh, like this one guy supposedly made a TV that can see the, like, see the future or whatever, but, uh, they haven't, haven't figured out how to do that yet, so.
	What would really bother me is to lose you.
	I mean, really lose you.
	I thought you were lost for two years, uh, Mike, and now, I have this feeling, I just have this feeling that you're going to rebuild somehow.
	Well, that's, that's the eventual goal anyway.
	So, I mean, it may or may not happen now.
	There's this, uh, I can't, I guess if it happens at some point in the future, I can't really say that didn't happen, but, uh, there's this story floating around me on the internet where I ended up back in 1930, crushed in some tube with a cell phone in my hand or something.
	As far as I know, that didn't happen, but that's not to say that I don't do it at some
	point in the future.
	I don't see how, because I don't know how to go back to any arbitrary point in the past.
	You know, I've got to say that even going forward in hops, going forward in hops and
	holding your youth at the same time, if you didn't have to end up with a headache, no
	ID and in the middle of a field somewhere, would be pretty cool.
	Yeah, well, I mean, looking back on it, the foolish thing I'd done, I mean, basically was, I didn't wear a Faraday cage when I jumped into it.
	I didn't think I needed one.
	I know better now, so... Yes, you did.
	All right.
	Let's go to, I don't know, Kansas City on the phone.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing well, sir.
	Thank you.
	Okay, a couple of things for you.
	I'm a skeptic.
	I love your time travel talk.
	I love hearing it.
	I love reading it.
	It's great.
	Are you a skeptic of what Mike did?
	Well, not necessarily.
	The proof is in the pudding, naturally, okay?
	Um, the thing that bothers me on a situation like this, you travel in time, you lose track of two years, a person can go into a coma, okay?
	My thing is a two-way travel.
	You go forward, you come back.
	You go back, you come forward.
	Well, that would be ideal.
	It would be ideal, and it would be the real proof, okay?
	And the other thing, and Mike, this is for you, okay?
	I have a lot of close family, a lot of close loved ones, keep track of me.
	What did your family say or think this time you were gone?
	Oh, good question.
	A really good question.
	How about it, Mike?
	Well, basically they thought I vaporized myself, so they were freaked out.
	Did they submit any reports to the police?
	Did they, you know, a missing person report or anything?
	No, actually, well, that's actually one of the first things I did when I was in that homeless shelter.
	I ended up going to the library and doing a search myself and see if, uh, and nothing turned up.
	So basically, I don't know if they filed missing persons or not.
	Basically, they said they did, but I can't find anything, so.
	All right.
	Here is somebody named Clay.
	Who is on the wormhole saying, um, has Madman ever considered creating a Kickstarter page to fund yet another project with the proper funding?
	He could even keep a video blog to record his results, thus proving the experiment works.
	Um, you know what?
	That's actually a good idea.
	I never actually considered that.
	I mean, usually with Kickstarter, it's things that, uh, that, that, uh, Well, I mean, at large, there's probably so much skepticism.
	I didn't think I'd get that much anyway.
	It's not a bad idea.
	It's actually an idea.
	It is.
	One of your regional callers from back in 1995, they asked me if I was going to be publishing.
	I'm not your typical, basically like one of your other guests.
	Most of your other guests already have like a book published or whatever, and then they go on your show to promote it.
	Yes, I know.
	You don't have a book to sell, right?
	Yeah, I don't.
	That's my weak thing.
	On the technical side, I'm a math and science guy, but as far as basically the English side of it, when I was in college, I barely passed that.
	All right, here's what I recommend, Mike.
	Seriously.
	There will be a lot of people who would be willing to ghost author for you, or co-author for you.
	So, in other words, you could, in detail, with drawings, if you can remember of the equipment, the warehouse, the whole thing, everything that's happened, beginning to end, as you've told it on this show, but in more detail, and write a book.
	I recommend you do it.
	I'm not sure how we connect.
	I did remember Stephen Hawking's publisher said every informant, including you, is going to cut yourself in half.
	If we have a publisher who would like to do this, how about I have them contact my producer, you know her, very nice girl, Heather.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	And maybe you should make a book deal, Mike.
	And if somebody else is going to write it, I mean, I could write all the techniques, basically the meat and potatoes of it, and they can more or less do the rest.
	And if anything deserves to be published, it's this.
	And it would go a long way toward, I think, funding any project you want.
	It's just an idea.
	David, you're on with Madman Markham.
	Hello.
	Art, man, looking good.
	I see you on Periscope.
	Oh, hi.
	Question for Mark or Mike.
	Go ahead.
	Yes.
	So, um, I mean, it's intriguing because you don't really have an angle on this.
	I mean, you don't have a book deal, like you said before, um, you know, art kind of found you back in 95.
	So what, what about the witnesses?
	I mean, is there anyone out there that can, uh, correct corroborate your story?
	I mean, where, where are they at?
	Maybe we can find them tonight.
	I don't know.
	Well, I mean, um, Well, I mean, basically, like I said, I can't remember, uh, there was, what was her name?
	Uh, her last name was Sanderson.
	That's the only one I can remember.
	So, but yeah, there was like 25 or 30 people that basically was there when I was running this thing.
	All right, just like the police officer who contacted me and actually went on the air.
	I mean, how often does that ever happen?
	Yeah, that was, yeah, that was, uh, that was, uh, uh, crap.
	I just said it earlier.
	Oh, Tom Hampton.
	I'm sure he could be found.
	I'm sure that some other people who were funding you... Yeah, I mean, he's actually still an officer in Stanbury, as far as I know.
	Wow.
	So, yeah, basically, well, you know, small-town people, they more or less grow up and die there.
	I do understand.
	I hope we can find, you know, some of the people that were there in the warehouse, you know.
	Right.
	I think it's a wonderful idea, Collar.
	Thank you very, very much.
	You know, and put it all together, chronicle it in a book as best as you can remember it.
	You know, I understand that your memory got harmed, certainly, and that's not a surprise.
	It's like when I was talking to Heather, yesterday, I was telling her about this experiment where they were basically taking these eight Tesla magnets, which is a really, really strong magnet, but the tech is mature enough where they actually make that handheld, and they were actually showing it off for the Discovery Channel, where they're actually taking that thing, pulsing it into some guy's brain, and he's counting from one to ten while this thing's pulsing in his head.
	It was actually messing with the speech centers where he couldn't talk, where he couldn't count.
	I believe it.
	I absolutely believe it.
	These guys are PhDs and it's like, oh my god, you basically know more about this than I do and you're still doing it.
	It's almost like you were in a timeless coma for two years.
	I don't know how else to think about it.
	I mean, you've got to ask yourself, I certainly ask, where Yeah, I mean, like I said, I didn't physically age, as far as I could tell.
	I mean, my fingernails were the same length as they were.
	I didn't have not even one day's growth of facial hair.
	Yeah, I mean, as far as I could, I didn't, like I said, I didn't physically age, as far
	as I could tell.
	I mean, my fingernails were the same length as they were.
	I didn't, I didn't have that, not even one day's, not even one day's growth of facial
	hair.
	So as far as I can, as far as I could tell, I just skipped over that two years.
	So.
	All right.
	Let's stay with the phone and go to next, whatever next is.
	Hello.
	Hey Art, this is Tom from Florida.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing well, Tom.
	What's up?
	Yeah, I just wanted to... I missed part of the show, unfortunately, and I just wanted to ask, Mike, did you have any feedback from the government or anything?
	Did any government officials get in contact with you?
	I mean... That's a very, very good question.
	A very good question.
	I mean, well, that's another thing.
	I mean, Hollywood, basically, they'd have...
	They'd have the men in black show up and make me disappear.
	Well, obviously that didn't actually happen.
	Did anybody from the government at all contact you?
	No, basically you would think they would.
	They have spy satellites everywhere, so I'm sure they know about it, but no, I didn't hear a peep out of them.
	Nobody came knocking on my door offering me money saying, Hey, come work for us.
	Basically, we'll give you all the funding you need.
	I mean, that happens in every Hollywood movie you ever watch, but the reality is a little bit different.
	That's incredible, Mike.
	You would think that some government agency, DARPA, somebody... Yeah, you'd think, yeah, Department of Energy or...
	DARPA? Yeah, really, actually, DARPA, because basically they're, I mean, they fund all sorts
	of strange things. So yeah, you'd think they would be coming, like knocking on my door,
	checking in, but nope, didn't happen.
	If they were to come to you now, what would you, would you cooperate with them or, or
	not?
	Well, usually, I mean, the thing with DARPA, well, I don't have firsthand experience with
	them, but I'm willing to bet they try to militarize every, I mean, basically the check isn't free
	There's always strings attached.
	I hear that.
	All right.
	Very quickly, let's try this.
	You're on the phone and on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	What a pleasure to be on the phone with you and with Mike.
	First of all, I want to say that I appreciate your interest in time travel.
	Never ending.
	Yeah, because you have such an interest.
	It allows all of us who also have an interest to enjoy these topics in depth.
	But my question is this.
	We know obviously that he ended up in our dimension.
	In other words, when he went through this so-called time machine, he didn't go into another dimension or an alternate future, he obviously
	stayed within our own dimension, our own time, our own space. So that begs the question, the
	earth is in a different spot two years from now. So if he ended up in the same locale, I'm
	sorry, the same dimension as William...
	Well, now, wait a minute. He moved...
	He moved 800 miles, remember?
	No, no, no.
	The Earth... I'm with you.
	I'm with you.
	So, in other words, why didn't he materialize in space?
	We're at a break, and I have to break.
	So, Mike, that is kind of a cool question, and one worth considering during the break.
	I'm Art Bell.
	We trust you.
	But remember, the NSA... Well, you know.
	To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278.
	That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's the landline number, and you're welcome to give us a call and ask Batman Markham Whatever you like, and otherwise, of course, Skype is active and ready at your beck and call, as it were.
	Mike, welcome back.
	Yep, glad to be here.
	Jasmunda from Down Under, I know he's in Australia, he's wondering if you were upset that you missed the Millennium New Year's Eve.
	Um, well, kind of.
	Technically, the millennium wasn't told.
	Depending on who you ask, the millennium didn't start until 2001 anyway, so... Good point.
	It is depending on who you ask, indeed.
	But, of course, it's just gone, huh?
	Yeah, pretty much.
	I mean, it was kind of depressing, but... At that point, I was more excited than depressed, so... I completely understand.
	Alright, I believe it's Trey from Atlanta.
	Hi, Trey.
	Hey, Art.
	I'm sort of reticent to say this, but I feel like with Madman here, and it is a huge honor to talk to you, do you feel like even if you haven't personally, and perhaps this reality, have hit time travel, do you think an alternate version of you has?
	That's a pretty cool question.
	Well, if you consider, like, the multiverse theory, I guess if there's infinite versions of these, yeah, I guess so.
	I mean, if you think of it that way.
	But it's definitely a possibility.
	Yeah, I mean, by definition, basically, yeah, I mean, with infinite possibilities, everything that could possibly happen has happened, as far as that goes.
	Yeah, I'm kind of more concerned about me rather than alternate me's, so... Well, you are now how old, Mike?
	According to my birth certificate, 42, but... You're only 40.
	Yeah, biologically, I'm 40.
	So at 40, you know, you're in your prime.
	There's no question about it.
	You're in your prime, and... Yeah, hopefully, with luck, I'll have another 40, so... Well, maybe you will, and again, What are you going to do with it?
	I mean, somebody who's already done the incredible thing that you've done can't just give up.
	Oh, of course.
	Of course not.
	So you're going to build, aren't you?
	Well, if I can, I will.
	Hello there.
	You're on the air with Madman Markham.
	Hi.
	Missing equipment in the warehouse part of your story is the weak link.
	Because it's easy to find out who owns a commercial building.
	We all know all you have to do is go to the local courthouse, records department, or a realtor, or an attorney, and they will tell you the name of the owner of the warehouse.
	And you're much too brilliant, and you're much too practical to have overlooked this, because of losing all of your equipment and your notes.
	What's your explanation for this?
	And the video, too.
	Well, basically, like I said, as far as the video goes, all that disappeared with the equipment.
	Believe it or not, that didn't actually cross my mind.
	So why not?
	So as far as like looking up the realtor of the building or whatever.
	Why not?
	I mean, I would think you would definitely, definitely want to know what happened to your
	Yeah, I mean, I would, but like I said, that didn't actually cross my mind.
	Like I said, at first, I didn't even have the brains to remember my own name.
	Look, I know that the stuff was there.
	Well, yeah, when I actually went back there, I actually stayed there for a week, but believe it or not, the week I was there, I didn't actually think to go to the courthouse Do you mean that you stayed in the warehouse for a week when you went back?
	No, I mean, no.
	In town?
	Yeah, I mean, basically, it made me really depressed being there and seeing it empty, so I got the hell out of there.
	I totally get that.
	That would be depressing.
	It's like, where did everything go?
	Overseas somewhere.
	Hi there.
	You're on the air with Madman.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	I am in Japan, and for some reason I'm hearing myself.
	Oh, there we are.
	Okay.
	So, I was going to say that I feel kind of like I'm time traveling myself because I'm watching you on Periscope and it's about 15-20 seconds ahead of the radio that I'm listening to.
	It's a type of time travel.
	Yeah, but I guess I had two questions.
	Sure.
	One of them, or a question and a comment.
	One is that on the DARPA side of things, if they I mean, if everything that we hear is, or even if half of what we hear is true, I would think that they wouldn't really need you, honestly.
	I feel like...
	To a certain extent, they'd probably be way beyond what you're doing, and their only interest would be to shut you up, if anything.
	They probably just figured, oh, he'll burn himself up, or do it wrong, or he won't remember, or... We've already done that, so we don't care.
	Yeah, it's kind of a good point, Mike.
	If you had done this... You know what, that could be why they haven't knocked on my door.
	They already know more than I do, so... There you go.
	I mean, they have billions of dollars to do stuff with, so...
	I didn't get to hear the whole show yet.
	I'll go back and listen to it when I'm, because I'm subscribed.
	But you talked about the warehouse being empty, but did you have like a house that you were living in in the town?
	Was that still there?
	Was your personal possessions and stuff still there?
	Good question.
	Or did that get, you know, gotten rid of?
	Well, actually, at the time, the house I had at the time was in St.
	Joseph, Missouri.
	Yeah, that was all long gone, too.
	Basically, other people were living there now.
	So your family or anybody, like, keep any of your stuff?
	I mean, do you have any personal belongings or anything?
	Because I feel like that would be a big loss.
	I basically had to start over.
	So, I'm sure, basically, I don't know, well, what happens to stuff when somebody disappears for two years.
	You will hear, when you listen to the rest of the show, about his ID being gone, about... a lot, trust me.
	More or less.
	I basically was in the same boat with somebody's house burning down and with all their possessions inside.
	Basically in 2000 I had nothing.
	I imagine when you went back to the warehouse I'm sure it was just a gigantic depressing moment.
	Oh yeah.
	Here's what I imagine.
	I imagine that perhaps either whoever owned the warehouse Or, uh, perhaps the tenant that came to the warehouse, um, after you disappeared, literally, um, had everything just dragged away somewhere and probably put in, you know, the junkyard.
	I hate to say that, but... Yeah, I mean, well, there was, those electromagnets were, yeah, yeah, probably, they probably sold it for scrap and got quite a bit of money from it, because there was a lot of copper in that.
	So... God knows they rip up copper, um, you know, from, uh, Radio antennas have radials.
	They rip that up and sell it as copper.
	It's horrible what's going on.
	Daniel, hello Daniel on Skype.
	You're on the air with Mad Men.
	Hi guys!
	This is actually Dimitri, and Daniel is my son.
	He was the one that put the call through, but I just wanted to say that it's a great honor to talk to both Art and Medmed Markham.
	Thank you.
	I've listened to the original broadcast back in the mid-90s when I was a teenager, and I was fascinated by the story.
	Well, in that case, can you verify that what you heard then is basically what you heard now?
	Yeah, I would say so.
	And as I said, you know, many years went on since the original broadcast and this story just stuck with me.
	It was always in the back of my mind.
	I would think about it every now and again.
	I always wondered what happened to Madman and, you know, I tried every now and again to hop online and try to see if there was any new information.
	Just maybe a couple of months ago, I probably spent a whole day digging online and You know, came up with little things here and there and actually found a story about him, you know, appearing 800 miles away.
	And I thought for some reason that that was some bogus story.
	But now hearing it from, you know, Michael Markham himself, I got to say, hey, you know what?
	That really did happen.
	But what I wanted to ask is, OK, so there was a warehouse where all this equipment was set up.
	You know, I'm sure all these people were there watching Michael jump in.
	He disappeared.
	Obviously, you know, this was, there was something to this machine, to all this machinery.
	It wasn't just a joke.
	I mean, Guy either teleported someplace, whether he went, you know, forward or backwards in time.
	Um, it doesn't matter because either one of those scenarios would still be out of this world.
	And I just don't see anyone scrapping this stuff because there is a lot more to it than just, you know, a bunch of transformers sitting around.
	And I was going to say, um, tracking these people down wouldn't be that hard because obviously at some point, you know, there's someone's name that was attached to the lease or, um, you know, of course, you know what else, you know, what else is also possible caller.
	And that is that, Somebody did know exactly what happened and somebody came in who knew what they were doing and took it all away.
	Right.
	And then, another thing I was going to ask is, whatever happened to the videotapes?
	I mean, I know, obviously, you know, Michael doesn't know how to get a hold of any of these guys, but, you know, you'd think that if something like this happened and someone got it on video, it's bound to make its way to YouTube.
	I mean, I've checked all over.
	The answer to that is, all that stuff, the recording of all this was done in the warehouse.
	So this stuff was in the warehouse, including the camcorder, right, Mike?
	Yeah, I'm a camcorder, several hours of footage, and my personal journal basically where I more or less write down the date and basically the experiments that day I did.
	Including, I would imagine, your ID and anything metal you had that you were carrying.
	Yeah, well, yeah.
	I mean, I usually had that on me until that day I was actually going to jump in because I didn't want that basically erasing.
	Because there's a magnetic stripe on the back, and if you erase that, well, yeah, you can't sway, it doesn't work anymore, so... Right, but these people were at the warehouse when everything went down while the video camera was set up recording the whole event, and so you'd think that one of those guys would probably grab the camera after the fact, or at least grab the tape, so they would have some kind of proof of, hey, you know what, I've witnessed a guy either... Either that, sir, or they didn't want any evidence of this.
	True, true.
	Well, in any case, fascinating story.
	Loved it.
	And you know what?
	I really hope that Mike can go forward with this.
	And you know what?
	Maybe put out a shout out, because I know there's a lot of people listening to the show that would probably like to contribute, just like the folks back in the day did.
	You know what I think?
	You know what I think?
	I honestly think that one of the better paths now for Mike might be to find a publicist
	and sit down with the publicist and even if you have to do regressive therapy, you know,
	in order to bring back some of the details that got blasted away when you went through,
	somehow commit all of this to paper and do exactly what everybody else in the world does,
	write a book.
	Yeah, that's...
	And I'm actually looking at the...
	you This one guy suggests, I'm actually looking at the website now, go to, tell him to set up a GoFundMe account.
	Yeah, yeah, GoFundMe or, you know, well that's crowdfunding, right?
	Yeah, well one thing I do want to avoid is, well I know this one guy, he supposedly had some sort of free energy device and he basically They ended up sending him to prison for securities fraud.
	So I definitely don't want to basically end up going and falling in his shoes.
	No, we don't want you back in the pokey again.
	Yeah, that's well, yeah.
	I mean, as far as that goes, that's what basically, well, he more or less said, here's a free, here I have an engine that runs on water.
	And well, I guess he ends up filing his company on the New York Stock Exchange.
	And then he couldn't deliver, and well, basically they more or less sent him to prison for securities fraud, so... There are a few things that we do know for sure.
	We know you did the experiment, we know you ended up 800 miles away from the point of the experiment, and we know that two years disappeared.
	People are asking questions about the warehouse, but I kind of understand if everything was gone, you'd just kind of, I don't know, throw up your hands, In dismay, and you'd probably be a little disoriented.
	Hold tight.
	Madman Markham is my guest.
	He is not a french fry.
	Yet.
	And he may do it again.
	Or maybe not.
	Maybe he'll just write a book?
	Walked into the room There was voodoo in the back
	I was captured by your style And as we go from the cellar and back
	I saw the three peasants Why?
	No call screening.
	No waiting on hold.
	No requirement to kiss Art's ring.
	Just good talk.
	Join Art by calling 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	nine point two two two five fifty two seventy eight that's one nine point two
	call parts actually this is a remarkable interview
	taking place eighteen twenty years respectively after the of the first
	interviews with uh... mike madman and it is an incredible incredible story
	No question about it.
	I think it definitely deserves to be in a book with lots and lots of details.
	Is there anything left, Mike?
	Are there photographs, any pictures at all of the big equipment that you had set up?
	Anything?
	No, unfortunately.
	I mean, drawings, but basically those are redrawn from memory.
	Right.
	Right.
	Oh, that is so sad.
	So sad.
	And it seems to be something that happens in time travel stories that we get even from others.
	It's sad.
	Jack on Skype, you're on the air with the Mad Men.
	Evening.
	Mr. Markham, I have a suggestion for you, sir.
	If you set yourself up a Patreon account, and then link that with a YouTube account, and start making a weekly video, I can pretty much guarantee that everyone listening tonight, and that's been listening to this kind of broadcast for the last 20 or 30 years, will subscribe to your YouTube channel.
	YouTube will start paying you, and then Patreon will start paying you.
	And that will fund your research.
	The only thing you've got to promise us, though, Guy, is that you're going to keep us updated on your progress.
	Do you want to do that kind of thing?
	It's a good suggestion.
	Do you want to get on social media?
	The trouble with it is, Mike, that it does make you, you know, like a celebrity.
	Yeah.
	Well, I mean, sometimes that's unavoidable, as much as I don't like it.
	That's right.
	You're absolutely correct.
	So you consider that?
	Well, believe it or not, I already have a YouTube account.
	I mean, I think it's been hacked because there's stuff posting on it that I didn't post.
	Oh, that happens a lot.
	Yeah, but... I know two years in the bigger scheme of things is short, but I'm wondering, were you jolted by the change in technology?
	Because we are a fast-moving world.
	Well, yeah.
	Like I said, basically I had to go to the library and catch up on what I missed.
	Was there anything that surprised you in technological progress?
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, somewhat.
	I mean, basically 1998.
	The main thing, I was using first-generation IGBTs in my time machine.
	By 2000, they had the second-generation ones.
	I had the second generation ones, so I think they're up there at six or seven now.
	But yeah, silicon technology was the thing that totally blew, mostly blew my mind.
	Oh yeah, they were making a big deal about gigahertz processors.
	Well, in 1998 they only had 233 megahertz, so that was a big leap.
	It sure has been.
	Alright, Madman Markham and somebody in Colorado Springs, I think.
	Hi, this is Kevin.
	A couple comments.
	First, the question from the caller about why you wouldn't have ended up in space.
	Yes.
	If I jump exactly this moment in time, a year forward, would not I end up in exactly the same place I am now?
	The Earth would be in the same place in space?
	Well, if it was exactly, maybe if it was exactly a year.
	Oh, I see, I see, I see.
	I've got you.
	So you're saying, even though it was two years, Well, keep in mind, the sun's not staying put in one spot in space compared to, it depends on what your point of reference is.
	It takes like 12,500 years technically to be in the same spot, but you've got to remember the whole Milky Way galaxy is also rotating.
	Were you gone, it's a good question, were you gone exactly two years, do you know?
	No, it was actually two years and two months and some odd days.
	Really?
	Yeah, but the thing is, as far as, you know, actually that question was asked before we went to break.
	Right.
	But, yeah, basically what happened was, well, the other end of the wormhole, so to speak, I don't know what else to call it.
	Basically, it more or less rides, well, it's riding the center of the gravity of the Earth, so I don't have to worry about ending up in space.
	Wow.
	Wow, this whole thing is so incredible.
	And luckily, I guess, luckily it's, as far as stability goes, it's not dumping me in the middle of something, so that's actually good.
	That's actually what I was worried about, okay?
	Are all these hamsters, are they end up in, it's like, are they end up in the middle of the parking lot or whatever?
	I mean, literally buried in the asphalt.
	You know, maybe when you die, Madman, you'll walk through the perlis and there will be A whole bunch of hamsters and guinea pigs staring at you.
	Kenny, hello there Kenny, wherever you are on Skype.
	Hey, how's it going?
	It's fine.
	Yeah, that was going to be my question because you guys went to break and why didn't he end up in space and you guys forgot to answer that question.
	That was my question.
	I was going to be reminding you to ask that.
	Your whole call is now useless.
	Or do you have another question?
	I have a request.
	I do definitely have a request.
	Is there a way you can come up with a compilation of all the times J.C.
	called you and put it on as a tribute?
	Because that guy was awesome.
	Well, maybe like a memorial.
	I shouldn't say it because J.C.
	I don't know where J.C.
	is.
	He may be... Yeah, I've heard of him.
	Listened to the show before yesterday, and I heard he was like some legendary heckler.
	Legendary heckler is a way to put it, I suppose.
	Hi there, you're on the air with Matt Markham.
	Hi Art, thank you for taking my call.
	I just have a quick question for your guest today.
	I guess I'm curious to know about his familiarity with the intergalactic gravitational transportation associated with his time travel.
	I missed the first half of the call.
	I'm just curious to know if he used electricity to increase the magnetism and the gravity within his warehouse when he traveled.
	Oh, you've got a... Are you a time traveler?
	You know, a member of our time traveler club is what I mean.
	No, I'm not, Art.
	Oh, goodness.
	You need to go back and hear the beginning of this program because we detailed everything and we can't go through it again.
	I think if you go to YouTube, even the original 1995 interviews are on there, so... That's right.
	Well, of course, the big experiment is not part of that.
	Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.
	The early stuff.
	There's quite a bit that happens from 1997 up until... I should say.
	Yeah, 2000.
	I'm sorry, caller.
	You'll have to find a way to hear the show.
	That's all I can say.
	All right.
	Let's see if we can quickly do one before a masked man on Skype.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Yes.
	Art.
	Yeah.
	I got a question.
	I'm wondering if he knows whether he is in the same dimension he left in.
	You know what I mean?
	Yes, I do.
	Did you go to another Earth with another universe?
	It's a good question.
	Well, I'm still here.
	Yeah, like alternate reality.
	Yeah, it would make sense.
	Even, you know, all your stuff is vanished.
	None of your stuff is there.
	You would really expect none of your stuff to be there.
	Wait a minute, wait a minute.
	One at a time here.
	Caller, go ahead.
	You would really expect none of your stuff to be around.
	It would be missing.
	It wouldn't be in the warehouse.
	You know, That's a kind of a thought.
	Mike, what do you think?
	That's actually a possibility.
	I have no way of knowing for certain what the heck happened.
	Maybe when you vanished, it did too.
	I've got a question.
	Was there anything on the floor?
	Were there scar marks?
	Were there drag marks?
	Anything at all?
	No, there was actually a new tenant there, so.
	Yeah, that's what I meant, yeah.
	I knew it.
	I mean, if there was anything, basically with the, well, where my, the main contraption was, I guess you could call it, the main vortex generator or whatever you want to call it, where that was, there was a bunch of pallets stuck there, just like stacked there, so.
	A bunch of them.
	Very quickly, you're on the air with Madman Markham, coming up in a break.
	Hi.
	Hello Art, welcome back to the Airwaves.
	This is Ryan out in the middle of the Sonoran Desert in Buckeye, Arizona.
	Hey there.
	Hi, I just wanted to know if there was a missing person report, because if somebody jumped through, something as he describes, and there's witnesses, people are going to panic, like the owner of the building, you know, potentially manslaughter, homicide, being complicit in... Not to mention his family.
	Yeah, my family... Hold on, hold on, hold on.
	We're getting an answer.
	Go ahead, Mike.
	Uh, yeah, well, my family thought, basically, thought I more or less vaporized myself, and as far as everybody, my, that's why, actually, when I went, basically, when I went back there, that's what I ended up, that was one of the first things I did, was do a search of myself, and see if I can find, uh, like I said, missing persons reports.
	All right.
	All that stuff.
	Do you have the record?
	Yeah, both of you hold on.
	I'll bring you back, caller.
	Stay right where you are.
	were in break.
	thought was dead but he's not.
	David in Los Angeles writes something that as I bring back this caller and Mike, I think you all should hear.
	Art, I'm a real estate broker and whenever someone just disappears from a property, we call a company to trash everything inside.
	Most times we have no idea nor do we care what's going into the dumpster.
	Then we rent to a new tenant.
	That's how it works.
	Caller, you're back on with Madman Mike.
	Yes, sir.
	It's a very fascinating story.
	I'm kind of like thinking maybe this was a story that Would have been good for Truth or Trash.
	It's just there's too many holes in the story.
	Like what?
	Well, a guy disappears for two years and law enforcement, the media is not alerted.
	Somebody panicking that witnessed this.
	I look for the guy myself.
	Well, and then he appears out of the field, out of the homeless shelter.
	There's got to be a record of him up here and there.
	I'm sure there is.
	Okay, Mike, is there a record of you, your appearance at the homeless shelter?
	Um, yeah, I'm sure there is.
	I mean, they had security cameras in there, so... Well, I mean, I don't know if they still have that footage from this.
	Keep in mind, this is 15 years ago, so I don't know if they still have the footage or not, but... Well, I understand that, but extraordinary claims, you have to have extraordinary evidence.
	I mean, it's a great story, but there's a lot of holes, especially where you disappear and there's all these witnesses.
	Nobody goes to the cops.
	No one goes to the media.
	Like you said, a credit card.
	Actually, hold it, hold it, hold it.
	One thing at a time.
	You're blasting a lot of things.
	The media did pay attention.
	And the media did, including me, nationally, went on the air and said, Madman is gone.
	We can't find him.
	And other media looked into it as well.
	Now, as Palladio's will tell you, people disappear.
	It happens.
	Go ahead.
	Gone because of this, uh, him jumping into, uh, through his, yeah, through his, uh, time machine or just disappearing off the grid.
	It's two different things.
	I'm not trying to be critical.
	No, you can be critical.
	It's fine.
	The story is just like, you know, family members would have panic.
	Okay.
	If somebody would have said, Hey, you know, your son, your daughter, your whatever, it would have jumped through something like that.
	And he said they assumed that he vaporized.
	Well, I would think they'd go to the police.
	I would, too.
	And the guy that owns the building?
	Well, all right.
	That's yet something else.
	You're jumping ahead.
	All right.
	Mike, let me ask you this.
	Your family.
	I asked that, too.
	Look, I don't know, and I have no right to pry, but I don't know how close you were to your family.
	I don't know anything about you with that regard.
	So, are you surprised they didn't file a police report?
	Well, I mean, I was actually for, I mean, kind of, but not really.
	I mean, I talk to him every, like, I mean, I don't call him like every day and tell him what I'm doing or anything like that.
	I mean, usually I call him every, I'd say maybe every few weeks, so.
	uh... yeah but many okay let's try this is a new what you were doing good night
	yeah and i figured the ball game a vvd and it's not okay it's not
	that bigger they'd have a i mean none of them have a life insurance policy that
	they tried to collect or anything like that so uh... also use it i were writing a policy and there was no
	and there was no i'll get bigger maybe if the world is in some dead maybe
	there'll be a death certificate of me No.
	I guess the world assumed I'm still alive, because I can't find a death certificate on me.
	Well, after about a year, they can do that.
	Or maybe it's more than that.
	I really don't know.
	Me neither.
	I was going to say, if I was asked to write a policy on you, And I was the underwriter, I'd say, no chance.
	Yeah, I mean, the premiums for that would be insane.
	Everybody has to remember, everybody knew what Mike was doing.
	He had been arrested.
	He had been in jail.
	He had collected this equipment.
	Then he had collected donations and money from broadcasting that we did.
	He had the warehouse, we know about that, and he had the resources to build the stuff he talked about.
	So we know an awful lot.
	Granted, there's some we don't know, but we know that much.
	William on Skype, you're on the air.
	Roswell's right now.
	I beg pardon?
	Roswell's right now.
	Well, Roswell's right back to you.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, sir.
	Mike, I've got a question for you.
	You said when you put your small animals through, they wound up either east or west.
	Was it always the same direction, or was it one or the other?
	As far as I could tell, as far as trying to figure out if there was a pattern to it, east or west was random.
	So they either went east or west, but never north-south, caller?
	That doesn't make sense to me.
	If he's traveling forward in time, he should always go in the same direction and either wind up above the ground or under the ground.
	My next question is, if you saw them appear, did they appear underground or did they appear above the ground and fall to the ground?
	Well, I mean, they were basically on the surface of the ground.
	They weren't under the ground.
	And I think they didn't come back dead, so I'm assuming they didn't pop in, like, High enough above the ground where the fall killed them.
	Were any of them physically affected in any way that you could detect, Mike?
	No, they were perfectly fine.
	As far as I could tell, no burn marks.
	They even had the same appetite.
	As far as you could physically tell, nothing changed.
	it did something it probably did something in their system that uh... as
	you pointed out they can't talk yeah so
	certainly did some of your nervousness under your own air with madman markham
	operator such a wonderful broadcast of picture of the house mike uh...
	this is just a phenomenal story of the following up for eighteen years now
	twenty years however long it's been uh... i've had a lot of thoughts on on what you did
	I'm kind of surprised that you've used as many animals as you have.
	The technology has evolved quite a bit now.
	If you do build again, and if you were to try to put items through, what about using something like GPRS or some sort of a tracker or beacon, and shielding it with like a Mylar bag, having the Mylar bag pop Well, you can't take anything metallic through.
	on the timer and then you could also try to record like a stopwatch or have some
	other way to really see how much time has passed on one side of the coin.
	Well you can't take anything metallic through and by the way, Hold on,
	real quick, how many animals would you put through before you personally jump
	through? Well I would at least put through something with some level of
	and I was just like a dog.
	I hate to say that, I'm a dog lover.
	But something that can sit, shake, something that can, if I could see that it recognizes the man.
	Yes.
	As simple a sentence after it, I might feel comfortable going through.
	Okay.
	Well, I guess Mike may have considered and possibly rejected sending a dog or a cat.
	There was a rumor about a cat.
	Hey Art, it's Mike from Burbank.
	Yeah, the cat never happens.
	A lot of cat lovers out there who would be upset.
	Yeah, and I didn't want Peyton knocking on my door.
	Somebody calling themselves Manila Thrilla, you're on.
	Hey Art, it's Mike from Burbank.
	Hey Mike.
	I spoke to you on Truth or Trash.
	Okay.
	So the guy had money.
	So did he have the money in the bank?
	Did he have a lot of interest when he got out?
	With the guy, you mean Madman had money?
	Yeah, what happened to his bank accounts?
	What happened to the utilities that he was paying?
	Was he in arrears?
	Did he take care of that?
	After you've been gone two years, it's all a good question really, Mike.
	Did you have money in the bank?
	You were not a rich guy.
	You know what I wish I did?
	Basically, it was like one of those deals where it was like maybe a dollar or something.
	I mostly spent all the money on basically parts for this thing, so.
	I believe it, totally.
	And as far as the utilities go, usually once you get 20, once you get 30 or 60 days behind, they shut it off.
	So I'm assuming that's what happened.
	They certainly do.
	So I mean, when I came back, my credit was trashed.
	So yeah, that's probably what happened.
	OK, caller.
	OK.
	OK, Art, thank you.
	All right, thank you very much.
	Appreciate the call.
	You're on with Madman Markham.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, hi.
	Hey, yeah, I'm here, and it's like I'm here looking on the internet, and it says that his stuff melted down.
	Now, where did you, if I can ask, where did you read that?
	It's infobarrel.com.
	I bet there's a million rumors about what happened.
	Yeah, there's about half, most of those stories, Don't take it word for word basically what they're doing since I was more or less kept to myself for the past 15 years so more or less people guessing what happened and well you know you tell a story and you pass it to the next guy and it changes a little bit well 15 years for that it's going to be something totally different like I don't know where that cat came from that cat story came from but it didn't come from me
	So, anyhow, I know we don't have a lot of time, so I just got a quick question for you here.
	Okay, now you talk about body mass, right?
	And maybe you got projected two years into the future because your body mass is larger than, like, let's say a smaller animal, if you get what I'm saying.
	Like, if you send something through, it appears a minute later.
	If you're larger, You're going to get projected further.
	That's like, yeah, that's actually crossed my mind.
	I mean, it's kind of counterintuitive.
	I mean, like if you're taking a rocket to the moon or whatever, I mean, it usually takes more energy to transport more mass.
	So I think it would be working in reverse, but maybe that's not the case.
	So, yeah, it's a possibility.
	So, yeah.
	You know, nobody should imagine that Mike has all the answers.
	He doesn't.
	And how could he?
	He has told you what he knows.
	That was just a theory on my part.
	Oh, nothing wrong with it.
	No, it's good you did.
	Thank you.
	Thanks a lot.
	I'll let you go so you can get in for callers.
	Take care.
	Mike, I don't expect you to have all the answers.
	You have given us what you can give us about what happened.
	What happened to the animals?
	What happened to the inanimate objects?
	And then what happened to you?
	That doesn't mean you have all the answers behind, you know, how it happened, why it happened.
	Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm trying to figure out.
	That's what I'm trying to figure out.
	Most of this stuff at this point is pretty much hands-on trial and error.
	So, we're educated guests, I guess you could say.
	You could have tried to cash in on this a long, long time ago.
	You could have written a book, probably had a movie, I mean, that's kind of, at this point, I'm basically at the point where it's kind of a requirement if I want to basically advance the research, more or less.
	And that is really what you want.
	I'm doing it for basically the learning, I guess.
	Yeah, and that really is what you want, isn't it?
	You want to continue the research.
	Um, yeah.
	That must be you starting your computer up to continue your research.
	No, it was an automatic restore to the computer.
	I happened to be sitting in front of it.
	I understand.
	All right, let's go to Hartsville, South Carolina.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, that's right.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Nashville, South Carolina.
	You're kind of hard to hear, so get close to the phone or something.
	Oh, hi Art, this is Ness from Tuscaloosa.
	Much better, yes.
	Are you taking the call?
	Yes.
	Hey Mike, I have a question, maybe somewhat off topic.
	I was just curious, let's say your creation or experiment would allow you to travel back in time to any period or moment you wanted.
	I was just wondering what time and why would you visit it and is there anything you would change about it?
	Well, you know, believe it or not, I never really considered it because every way I know it only goes forward.
	And even when it goes backwards, you can't go back to the day before you turned it on.
	I never really thought about it too hard.
	If you went back to the day before you built it, I don't know how that would work.
	I mean, this is why even theoretical physicists basically say you can't go backwards in time.
	For one, it violates every conservation law basically there is, because, well, you can go back and meet yourself and then do that an infinite number of times.
	That's a lot of free, basically that's a lot of mass energy from nowhere.
	Boy, it sure is.
	Well, you know, it's just been an amazing story with you now, you know, spanning now decades.
	And I just wonder what the next step is.
	I like the idea of a book.
	But in terms of your actual experimentation, on the one hand, you could say, I'm done.
	I don't want to die.
	On the other hand, you could say, I'm not done.
	I'm still in my prime.
	And if I did a big machine before, I can do a bigger one now or do it better?
	Well, I don't know about bigger.
	I mean, that was pretty, the last one was pretty big and I did basically, there was like a, oh geez, there was like probably four or five years worth of experimentation I could do with that before I decided to break it.
	Basically, I want to learn all I can.
	I mean, it's kind of like building a bigger and bigger particle accelerator.
	You don't, you want to basically milk it for all it's worth before you go build a bigger one.
	A very fast question, maybe from Connecticut, I think.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Am I speaking?
	You are, but you've got very little time, so if you have a question, fire it out.
	Yeah.
	I just wanted to know, do you really think it's time or probability states?
	Because I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as the past or future.
	It's all the now, and you're really just changing probability.
	Mike, do you have any comments on that?
	Well, I'm kind of like, if you ever read those books by Brian Greene, he has like four of them on quantum physics and all that.
	This is just my personal view, but my personal view is basically the future is actually, every possible future exists simultaneously, we just can't see it.
	That's how I look at it.
	Alright, well Mike, you know, it's been a pleasure knowing you all these years, decades now, and don't fry yourself alive, but On the other hand, don't give up, because we need people like you.
	Oh, I plan to continue my experiments if I can, so... I'm sure you do.
	All right, my friend.
	Good night, get a good night's rest, and thank you for appearing on Midnight in the Desert.
	It was a fun part.
	Good night.
	All right, everybody, that's it.
	Everybody in the world wanted an update on Madman Markham, and now you've got it.
	He's not going to stop.
	What's next for Madman?
	Only time will tell.

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