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Sept. 3, 2015 - Art Bell
02:16:33
Art Bell MITD - Linda Godfrey Weird Creatures
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From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good
morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones.
All covered like a blanket by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell and it's a joy to be here.
I'm going to do a foray tonight that I'm not used to.
We're going to talk about werewolves.
I don't frequently talk about werewolves.
Well, with one exception.
Alright, so, anyway, werewolves coming up with our guest, Linda, actually, Linda Godfrey, and I'm looking forward to that.
The rules of the program are so simple, no bad language, and only one call per show.
A couple of news items and then a shock for you.
Donald Trump signed the pledge.
You He pledges that no matter who the Republican nominee is, he will support him.
So, I guess he's to the point now where he figures he's so number one that he's going to be the nominee.
So, why not?
Right?
Because there were threats looming if he didn't do that.
And threats for the Republican Party, too.
Tom Brady also having a good day.
He will start in the game.
Because he beat the league.
Roger Goodell.
Roger Goodell will not be at the beginning of the game.
Well, probably because he figures the crowd will boo him.
So, Trump signs, Brady plays, and that's about as good as the news gets.
Oh well.
There is sort of one different news story.
This again comes from a website that I visit regularly.
It gives a perfectly, I would say, rational and scientific explanation.
It explains otoscopic phenomena.
That means like, you know, out of body, right?
Or doppelganger encounters.
These explanations discard the notion of an actual soul becoming temporarily separated from the human body and instead insisting it's nothing more than powerful hallucination.
Invented by the brain.
Now, this is such bunk.
Anyway, let me read it.
Frankly, the possibility that our brains are powerful enough to cause us to hallucinate leaving our body is even more unnerving than simply believing the soul can travel.
Discussions on subjects like these lead to wondering how come some people can believe in the paranormal at all.
Well, apparently the answer lies in the way some people process things.
This really gets bad.
Intuitive thinkers generally tend toward believing in things like UFOs and ghosts and other supernatural phenomena, which honestly sounds like a vaguely insulting way to say that intuitive thinkers are kind of dumb.
That's absolutely awful.
And really, really, really untrue.
Oh yeah, one more item.
This is pretty freaky, actually.
Scientists in Russia, actually in Kazakhstan, are puzzled because it seems 60,000 antelopes have died.
It is a mass die-off, not of a species, but damn close, you know, in a way.
Can you imagine that 60,000 antelopes got sick and just keeled over?
It is, well, it is a die-off.
And they have no idea why.
But the story caught my eye because it made me wonder if there could be someday, I mean, how many die-offs have we seen, huh?
Things from the sea beaching themselves, birds crashing to the ground for no reason that we can figure out.
Bees committing virtual suicide?
I wonder if one day Mother Nature doesn't say, you know, we need a balance.
And right now it's tipped toward Earth having problems with so many humans.
Let's have a die-off.
Now how would that come?
I don't know.
Maybe, you know, just a little thing.
Like a germ.
Or a bacterium of some sort.
Or, who knows?
But I mean, if there can be these die-offs that we continually see in the animal world around us, then it seems to me that we should always be on the lookout for all the little, little things that at first don't seem a big problem.
Anyway, this is, oh, one more thing, the shock.
If that all wasn't shocking enough, Tomorrow night.
Now, some of you know and some of you don't know, but a number of years ago, on another show in another galaxy, I interviewed the most amazing guy, whose name was Mike Markham.
Now, I affectionately dubbed him, and it stuck, really stuck, Madman Markham.
I called him Madman because of, well, frankly, some of the things he did.
Well, I'm talking with Madman, and he'll be here tomorrow night.
Madman has agreed to come back on the radio.
This is not a guy who likes the limelight.
Not a guy who likes the limelight at all.
And for a guy who doesn't like the limelight, it might be recalled he gave out on the air his phone number and address.
He's not there anymore.
So anyway, the ensuing four days, I think he got no sleep.
He got a bunch of money in the mail.
The world went nuts.
Madman Markham back on this program.
No, on this program for the first time tomorrow night.
And I know that news is going to quickly go far.
And wide.
Madman has not been interviewed.
And I might add, although I'm not going to give it away, Madman has big plans.
He's got big works underway.
He's done amazing things since we talked to him.
So, there you have it.
Coming up, 14 investigator and former teacher, newspaper journalist, Linda S. Godfrey, is the author of 16 books on strange creatures, people, and places too, including The Beast of Bray Road.
You gotta love that name, The Beast of Bray Road.
Weird Wisconsin, Weird Michigan, Real Wolf Men, True Encounters in Modern America, and her most recent, American Monsters, A History of Monster Lore, Legends, and Sightings in America.
She has been a guest on many National television and radio shows.
She's an amazing woman.
I mean, first of all, when have you ever heard of a woman talking about werewolves?
Lots of TV and radio.
She is also a commercial and fine artist.
She illustrates many of her own books.
Lives in Southeast Wisconsin on the edge of the cryptid-packed, um, what is this?
Kettle?
Um, moraine state forest.
I hope that's right.
With her husband, dog, and youngest son.
Her next book is forthcoming in 2016 from Tartar Penguin Books and will explore the even stranger side of strange creatures' sightings.
So, strange creature sightings, and there are plenty of those.
So, coming up, Linda Godfrey, and we're going to talk werewolves.
I know my wife has her ear plastered to the phone at home, listening to this show.
werewolves.
Wanna take a ride? Your conductor Art Bell will punch your ticket.
When you call 1952, call Art.
That's 1952-225-5278.
That's it.
All right, now comes Linda Godfrey.
We originally were going to have her on Skype, but our Skype connection was bad, bad, bad.
So here we are on the phone, and she sounds great anyway.
Linda Godfrey, hello.
Hello.
Thanks so much for having me.
Absolutely.
So, Linda, I am fascinated by werewolves.
And so the first question I actually have to ask you is, are werewolves real?
No.
In my opinion, not the traditional, usual way that people believe in werewolves.
Every corpuscle, every atom of the body, the DNA changing, and the bone growing, and the Jack Nicholson fur sprouting out of the face, and all of those changes that you see in Hollywood, most of that is pure Hollywood, special effects, things made up, and a really new mythology even created back in the early, the beginning of the 20th century when all those monster movies, those black and white wonderful monster movies, the Wolfman, Lon Chaney, were being made.
These mythologies about being bitten and then turning into a werewolf, the werewolf coming out only in the full moon, all those kinds of things, the physical, completely physical transformation.
I don't believe it, and I say that pretty clearly in every book.
Oh, come on, Linda.
My wife dragged me to see Twilight.
I know what a werewolf is!
And those, the Twilight Wolves, are the least possible of them all.
They don't make good boyfriends.
You know, they take you out to the woods, you have to eat really terrible food.
I mean, it's just not the way it is.
And I don't really mean to make light of it, because I know many people who've had really terrifying... There's something real.
I mean, what I write about is not a non-existent fictional thing.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, now you're going the other way.
I say, I ask, are werewolves real?
And you say, no.
Totally crushing the entire interview, probably.
And now, not less than a minute later, we're talking about people who have had terrifying experiences with animals that you're talking about may be werewolves.
They look like werewolves.
Well, if they look like one and bite like one, then they must be one.
Well, what people say is, if there was such a thing as a werewolf, This would be it because they look like, except when you
think about it, when most people picture a werewolf, they are thinking of something that
looks at least part human, at least with some trace of humanity.
Really I'd say 90% of the reports that people send to me don't have any sort of humanity
in them except they walk upright.
But they're still on their little dog feet, you know, with the hawk up off the ground.
They're not walking flat footed like humans.
They don't have any human characteristics really, although there's another subset that
do.
We can get into that later.
Well then what are they like really?
Would you describe them more like some sort of canine variation or what?
Well, that's what I thought.
For a very long time.
And I still, when I look at my reports, I have to say probably at least 90% of them show nothing more than what could be some kind of large adaptation of a timber wolf with slightly elongated paws.
That's the only thing that's really different than most of them.
But they have the natural canine color of eyeshine, which is the yellow-yellow-green.
They have the shaggy fur.
They have the long snout.
They have big fangs.
They have pointy ears on top of their heads.
They snarl and growl.
And the interesting thing is that most of the time, I mean, they can chase cars, chase people.
People feel that they're going to be eaten imminently.
At the last second, what they do is they run off into the woods or the cornfield or whatever cover is near them.
And it ends that way. So that's unusual.
There are a few other things about them, but just to look at them, I've said for a long time,
if you found a dead one, you would just say there's a kind of weird-looking, really big, wolfish-looking dog lying
there dead.
All right.
But you wouldn't see a human.
All right.
This brings another question to mind, then.
A number of years ago, and even fairly recently, Linda, there have been reports of what people down south call a chupacabra.
Now, what you're describing sounds damn close to a chupacabra, to be honest with you.
Obviously, you would be aware of the chupacabra.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, I think that they're actually, and now we're talking about the original Puerto Rican style chupacabras, not the recent Texas Blue Dog or the Drowned Raccoons that people mistake for chupacabras.
Okay, I'm not sure I can make the distinction, but okay.
Well, the ones that were reported in Puerto Rico and parts of Mexico and even up into Texas, where the With all of the huge mutilations and the goats were having their blood drained, that sort of thing.
Yes.
And that's actually what the name means.
It means, you know, it sucks the goats.
That's literally the translation.
And they were smaller than these wolfmen type creatures or dogmen, whatever you want to call them.
Sometimes they had scales.
They were occasionally described with wings.
They had a different looking sort of claw.
The wolf men or dog men leave wolf or canine prints.
They just look like a very large wolf or canine print with the claws and everything.
The chupacabras had a different looking claw.
So there were many different distinctions.
Most importantly was that they were seen by those witnesses who were able to describe them from close range as having What looked like these hollow tubules protruding from their mouth that supposedly were the instruments that they used to actually drain this blood from all of these animals.
Right.
And that's something that you would not see in any canine.
So, they were smaller, had some oddities.
They also had a pretty noticeable row of kind of spiked appendages down the back and right down onto the tail.
So, they did have sort of a different look.
All right.
There are many things we can talk of.
Let's talk a little bit about what's called the Beast of Bray Road.
This sounds so interesting.
I've never heard any of this, Linda.
Never.
OK.
Sure.
Well, we'll start.
That's right at the beginning.
So that's a very good place to go.
That's got me into this whole thing in the first place.
I was working in 1990, 1991.
First as an editorial cartoonist, and then as a reporter for a county-wide newspaper here in southern Wisconsin.
And one of the first stories that came my way, partly because nobody else wanted to touch it, was a tip-off that I got that people around my own little hometown of Elkhorn, Wisconsin, were saying that there was what they were calling a werewolf out on this stretch of country road outside of town called Bray Road.
And I know I laughed.
And it wasn't that I was skeptical of all things unusual.
I had been kind of a UFO fan and had read about Bigfoot.
My dad was a science fiction fan, so we always had these things around the house.
But I had never thought about such a thing as a werewolf being real or appearing out where people, especially people I knew, could see it.
And so I still was curious as to where the rumor was coming from, and I started asking And discovered that there were people who were talking about this.
A few of them were people that I knew.
And I happened to be working with the County Animal Control Officer on another project at that time.
He was looking into some local puppy mills and things like that.
And so I asked him, his name was John Fredrickson, if he had heard anything about it.
And he said, Oh, sure.
And I'm sitting in his office and he pulls out from his official desk, official Manila file folder, Which he has labeled werewolf.
Oh, really?
Now, when you've got a county official with a file folder marked werewolf, that's news.
It is actually, yes.
Yeah, I mean, no matter what comes of it.
You were there, were you there at that point as a reporter?
Yes.
And you saw the helmet marked werewolf?
Yes, he had it marked werewolf.
And inside were the contact information and notes that he'd been taking from people that were calling him and saying, I saw this thing out on Bray Road or nearby it.
I don't know what it was, but you know, and it was doing various things.
One woman She saw it kind of squatting, kneeling by the side of the road, holding some kind of maggoty roadkill, like maybe a dead raccoon, she thought, in its upturned palms, which is not the way that you see canines sitting and eating things, and it was huge.
Another woman thought she saw something coming out of a cornfield, and she slowed down and felt kind of a bump.
She didn't know if she'd hit something, so she stopped, got out of her car, and looked and turned around.
And she said, I saw this thing.
I mean, that's the word people consistently use.
Pounding toward me.
And she said it was running on its hind legs.
She said she had a relative who was a very large wrestler and this thing had at least as many muscles and was bigger.
Back up just a little.
Running on its hind legs.
Right.
So that includes, you know, that seems to be bipedal, right?
Yes.
Now, what animal do we know of on earth other than maybe the kangaroo?
I don't know.
How many run on their hind legs?
Well, not a lot.
I mean, there are certain lizards that do.
There are lots of mammals that can run on their hind legs if they want to or need to.
I mean, if they're motivated, if their front limbs are injured, perhaps, or they're born without them, they can very often transition.
There's some wonderful YouTube videos about A bear with an injured forelimb that is able to run around on its hind legs.
There are dogs trained to dance beautifully on their hind legs.
The thing is that in the wild they usually don't last very long because if it's a prey animal like a deer, which can also, I've seen a deer walking on its hind legs to get at a bird feeder for instance, but if they're restricted to that they usually can't get away from predators very easily and if it's a predator they usually can't hunt very easily so they're usually not around too long and they're not going to be bothering humans a lot but these animals that people were reporting seemed large usually the height was estimated between six and seven feet and very healthy with abundant fur all over the body and the only really odd thing besides them running on their hind legs was that people would say
I had a strange feeling that it was leering, they would use three words, leering, jeering, or sneering.
These were the ones they always picked.
It was sussing me out the same way I was looking at it.
It was curious of me.
I felt like it was superior to me.
It just had this weird attitude that you don't see in normal wild animals.
That freaked them out more than anything else, I think.
Um, it certainly would me.
No question about that.
Inside this folder, did he happen to have any photographs or video or drawings or whatever?
No, no, just the notes, you know, that he'd been taking.
He'd been speaking mostly by phone to them, but he shared the contact information with me and I went out and interviewed them and I did get some of them to draw some rough sketches and I was kind of surprised at several things.
One was that These people just didn't seem like hoaxers.
It was a widely diverse group.
It included men, women, children, blue-collar, white-collar farmers, professional people.
It was a very wide spectrum.
There were more than I expected, and they just didn't seem like they were lying.
Sure, common sense says when you have that many people in one area reporting you're on to something.
Exactly, exactly.
A few of them knew one another, but most of them didn't.
They weren't all exactly on the road.
The Bray Road is a connector between two highways, and then there are other roads kind of branching out from the ends of it.
And so there were people all around this sort of nexus.
You know, you could kind of draw a little circular area.
And I just thought, well, this is something really unusual.
And if it's nothing but folklore, Well, folklore is something people write down and keep track of, then that's worth it.
If it turns out to be nothing than just some strange fluke that all these people had the same hallucination at different times and places, often years apart, I might add.
Folklore mostly doesn't have you calling the cops.
You might make note of it, you might write about it, but you don't call the cops.
Exactly.
Yeah, and the other thing was, if you're a hoaxer, you don't usually call the cops because Who, knowing that they're committing fraud, are going to call the local officials and leave their handy information to be tracked down and charged with fraud?
You know, I've interviewed Bigfoot investigators and I've always thought the dumbest thing that anybody could ever do would be to put on a Bigfoot costume and go roaming around to freak out the local populace.
You know, like I've described little grey aliens who would land, they'd be so full of lead by the time...
Yeah, and that's really true.
Well, I think it was the year before last there was some guy in a police suit out in Montana who I think got hit by two vehicles when he ran out onto the road.
Now, there have been hoaxes on Bray Road.
I know of a few of them where one was a farmer who wore a bear suit because he wanted to stop parking kids from coming out on his land.
Really?
Dumb.
Yep, and I know another guy who was a county official who But to see this was after these things had occurred and I've never been able to hook up the time frame with one of these known hoaxers with any of the known sightings but yeah this is a guy who was a government official and he thought that it would be funny to put on a guerrilla suit and run across the road but he only did it once and it's very dangerous and I've often thought
Really, they're not thinking about... They could cause a car to go off the road for all they know.
But there are people who do it.
I know that.
There are many county officials, Linda, that act like gorillas.
We'll be back.
Linda Godfrey is my guest.
She knows about these creatures for real.
The real ones.
The real beast types of Bray Road.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell.
At night in the desert spans the world to a new beginning.
To call us from outside the U.S. and Canada only, use Skype with a headset mic, if on
a computer, and call MITD55.
That's MITD55.
We're talking, um...
you With Lynn Gauntry about creatures.
And I, you know, I've really got to tell you all that I walk at night a lot.
In fact, every night I walk at night.
And there are things moving here in the desert.
Big things.
Little things.
Big things.
And you can hear them moving.
Because the desert is so quiet at night.
You know, generally star-lit from end to end, and very, very dark, and things move in the night.
And, of course, you don't know what they are.
Oh, my.
Anyway, Linda, back to your side of the world, or the country, and the Beast of Bray Road.
So, he had this folder full of info about this, well, werewolves.
It was called werewolves.
Right, well I chose the word beast because even right from the beginning I was uneasy with that term werewolf and all the baggage but I will say that you find it in a lot of my book titles because most publishers consider the word werewolf much sexier than my preferred term which is unknown, upright, tainted.
So the word werewolf gets used there and it does serve to give people a fairly accurate mental picture of at least what they're
talking about. It's a different sound, it's a different thing than Bigfoot, it's a
different thing than, you know, a centaur or a satyr or anything like that. It's an upright, wolf-like
looking creature.
Well I can see it. What you described, being upright and very furry, could be described
as Bigfoot, really, and what you described also was tall, so there's a lot of similarity
there.
There is some, right, but anybody who gets a good look at it is usually quite, quite
sure that it's one or the other because there are also some really big differences.
The Bigfoot, for instance, is usually not only taller but weighs probably two or three times as much.
It's much more muscular.
It's got the long arms that come down much farther than a human's or a dog's would.
You don't see the ears.
It's usually, you know, you might see the crest on the head or the round head.
Covered with fur all over.
It does not have that long muzzle.
Some of them have a slightly prognathic jaw or slight protrusion, but you can see that in some humans too.
You know, it's what people describe with the dog man is this long jaw full of canine teeth, fangs.
Whereas people that I know that have seen a Bigfoot mouth up close, an open Bigfoot mouth up close, have described teeth that look more like really big human teeth.
You know, they're the flat type.
So that's different.
The biggest difference is probably in their legs.
The Bigfoot is some sort of primate.
We don't know what kind for sure, but it walks flat footed.
That much we know.
Its footprints are very much like a human's.
Very large.
Whereas the canine walks I guess the official term is digitigrade on its toe pads and people will say this is I still hear it continually with almost every case report people will say you know it ran or it walked really well on its hind legs except its legs were facing backwards legs were turned backwards and by that they're meaning that they observed that this was walking on its toe pads
And then there's a little thin leg area leading up to what would be analogous to the human heel and ankle area, which we would call the hock in an animal.
Right.
And they're expecting, because it's above the ground, they're expecting it to be a knee projecting forward.
And what's analogous to our knee joint is really up a little farther by what we would call the thigh.
So they're looking at it and they're thinking of it in terms of Well, if it was a human, you know, the leg would be bent backwards.
But that just tells me that they're accurately describing a canine rather than a primate.
All right.
Here's something from Curtis.
I get these messages by computer.
It's called the wormhole.
And Curtis says, I have seen a werewolf-like creature face to face in southern Indiana near a farm slash woods.
It had red eyes, emanated pure evil and hate.
Has Linda had any reports like this from the Midwest?
Yeah, most of the time reports like that are near, not always, but quite often they're near some sort of Native American reservation or land like that.
When I hear red eyes and exuding pure evil and Another trait for that usual type is that it will seem to have actual shoulders.
Canines do not have shoulders, but they will describe big shoulders, bigger muscles, and hands rather than paws.
And that I relate to a type of, it's considered not an apparition, but a projection or some sort of an apparent transformation that certain People who take the bad medicine path are able to make, and there are different names.
It's called the skin changer, skin walker, different terms that people might recognize.
Did you say people who take bad medicine?
Who follow the bad path of what Native Americans would call a medicine path.
That means a spiritual way that they take.
And no, it's not like getting a bad dose of Maalox and you turn into... You take a bad dose of something or another and you'll probably see something.
Yeah, there's another whole world there.
Okay, so what really bothers me about this, and I don't scare easily, not much scares me, I've dealt with, you know, reports of chupacabras and all kinds of things, but I must say I have a phobia about red eyes.
I don't know what it is about red eyes, red glowing eyes.
Linda, honest to God, it scares the hell out of me.
Yeah, because it's not what we're accustomed to seeing, you know, and the eye shine at night is scary enough if it's green or yellow or white, whatever, you know, because you know you're looking at something that can see you while you can't see it.
It's bad enough, that's right, but red, oh, red is bad.
Yeah and you know I do get, I mean I've been at this now for 23 years and I started getting reports all types of things right from the beginning and one thing I've noticed and I try to go not by my own thoughts but by what the reports are telling me and when I started sorting these out and really looking after I'd amassed quite a few what connections were between eye color I realized that Anyone who was sure they were seeing a Bigfoot and it was giving off eyeshine was seeing a red color.
These skinwalker types that seemed to be somewhat more of the supernatural, if you will, for lack of a better word, side had, invariably had, red eyeshine.
And the other upright canines that just seemed like maybe a strange wolf that got up and started walking one day, All right.
You know, obviously some of these things are out there.
The question I have, I guess, is what I ask a lot of Bigfoot researchers, and that is, how do they stay, for the most part, hidden?
How do they stay away from human beings?
We are so Or are we?
I mean, there are a lot of open areas left, and I need to keep that in mind, but you know, civilization has spread, concrete has spread, it must be harder for them.
Yeah, I agree, and that always is one of the very most germane questions.
It's one thing that has led me to kind of reconsider my position on both of these being totally natural animals, because as we do start Moving more and more into the interiors of all these giant national forests and state parks that people never really got into so much before, but it's becoming much more of a popular pastime.
And people are out there looking.
People are much more aware of all these types of things.
Some are carrying guns.
Some are using drones.
You'd think that, and trail cams have been invented.
You know, we've got trail cams everywhere.
That's right.
Cougars, or mountain lions, are one of the most elusive of all known natural animals, and even they will sometimes show up on a trail camp, or we can spot them.
The one that ended up near downtown Chicago five years ago was able to be shot, and we capture bears.
These things don't seem to have a big problem with being seen on trail camps.
When it comes to the dog men and the foot, I know this from experience because I do a lot of field work.
And have a trail cam, work with people with trail cams.
No matter how hard you try, you can have the trail cam working perfectly.
It will take wonderful shots.
You can see a raccoon coming, sniffing around.
Most of the time you'll see something like a dog or a coyote or some other mundane animal taking whatever the bait is.
But on times when you can tell because there are prints or it's something that's impossible for something else to get, when a bait is taken, Um, either the trail camera will be somehow wrenched to the side, or it'll be something standing in front of it, it'll come out completely black, completely white, or there will be a misty thing covering what you see of the site that is being photographed.
Okay, so that indicates intelligence, if not perhaps super intelligence.
Right.
When it's all done, the bait's gone, and you don't know who took it, or what took it, or how it happened.
And yeah, it implies not only an intelligence, but an awareness that this is something that it shouldn't be seen as.
And maybe some kind of supernatural ability as well.
Yeah, you know, it's something beyond what normal animals would have.
Okay, other than a guy named Bugs, who I'm still worried for, who claims he shot and buried a couple of Bigfoot in Texas.
Um, I don't know of any, I don't know of any reports of any of these animals being shot and then being put on display.
So I, again, this is something I ask Bigfoot investigators, but it seems almost as though these things cannot be shot.
And that leads one back toward the paranormal explanation.
What do you think?
Right.
It's inexplicable.
I have a number of reports of people who ended up emptying automatic rounds into both Bigfoot and the Dog Man.
Really?
And it just looks at them.
It usually leaves at that point, but they don't, and those who are brave enough to try and follow it, find broken brush, evidence that something has walked that way, and then all of a sudden they just lose the trail and it's gone.
It's like it got out of sight.
My Native American friends would say it went back to the spirit world.
Honestly, I've heard that for many years, and I have to say that this paradigm that so many Native American friends have told me from different tribes, that these creatures have dual existences.
When they're here, they're physical, they're corporeal, they need to eat, they can breathe, they need energy.
But they can go to what they would call the spirit world, what we might call a world in another dimension, a bubble world attached to this world.
And you're saying that Native Americans understand these creatures perhaps in the same way we do, using different language to discuss, for example, the spirit world.
We might talk about different dimensions.
Right.
So it's sort of all explaining the same thing.
That's how it seems to me.
You know, to me it seems a difference in terminology.
And what they've said to me is that they, these creatures, and they're usually speaking to me about the dogman and the wolfman, have been here longer than people, and they know how to get between the worlds, they have their own reasons for being here, and you'll find variations.
You know, some believe they're evil, some believe they're benign, some believe that if you see one it means someone's going to die.
So there are different interpretations that way, but when it comes to the actual nature, in most cases, and I've talked to some pretty interesting people.
I know one person who told me this was a woman who is not only has a doctorate in anthropology, but is also an elder in the Ho-Chunk tribe here in Wisconsin, which is notoriously closed-mouthed about revealing these sorts of things.
But it's just It's so parallel to this idea of different dimensions that I think it's almost impossible not to make that comparison.
And so that is, if you had to make a guess, that's your best guess?
Well, it suits the large majority of the facts given in these reports the best.
It's the paradigm that fits everything the best.
After a while, you get so many reports from credible witnesses saying things like, you know, it was running from me and all of a sudden it just disappeared.
I saw footprints.
I heard it going through, but I couldn't see the animal.
Okay, so the footprints remain to be measured, Linda?
I'm sorry to interrupt.
They remain to be measured?
Yes, yes, in many cases.
And that happens both with the Dogman and with the Bigfoot.
I've seen Bigfoot prints.
I've cast some.
I've never had a good enough, deep enough one that it was a great cast, but I've seen them and measured them and that sort of thing.
I've got lots of photos of Dogman prints that just look like very large, larger than wolf prints even, canine prints in many cases.
I've got one place where I've been working with a property owner for two years, and we have several different kinds of footprints, and in one instance, the footprint started in the middle of a snowy field, six inches of snow with a delicate crust on the top, and all of a sudden, something appears, rolls around in this area a little bit, and then gets up and walks off in a biped fashion towards some woods.
And these footprints begin in the middle of a pristine field?
They begin in the middle of the field.
And then they walk out.
The alternative is that it walked backwards bipedally from the forest and then turned around and then somehow, but then it doesn't show you where it goes from there.
It's a mystery either way.
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, and we have, um, and that is a crazy place, I'll tell you that.
So in other words, it appeared to kind of, out of nowhere, like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
It's like, you know, the only way, the only ways I could think of is if a helicopter lowered an animal down, you know, off a little rope ladder.
Oh, they're gonna do that, I'm sure.
Or, or a flying saucer or UFO beamed it down.
You know, it's just, where did it come from?
There's, there's just, and I've I've got a photograph of it.
They're slightly imperfect.
They were taken by the homeowner when he wasn't exactly sure yet what he was doing there, but they do show them.
Well, Horace, after you, I suppose, have published a number of books about this kind of thing, people come to you, I'm sure, in droves with these stories.
Well, yeah.
It started, this was the weird thing, going back to when that Mr. Bray Road story broke.
I remember talking about it to my editor and we agreed that people would locally have fun with it for maybe a couple weeks and forget about it.
And immediately it went national.
And this was before things went viral on the internet.
Almost nobody was on the internet.
People had to write me, snail mail, or find an actual phone number and call me there.
And what happened was The media began coming right away.
I was on radio shows everywhere.
The local Milwaukee and Madison TV channels came.
And then it went out to... Inside Edition came when Bill O'Reilly was still on Inside Edition.
Right.
Different shows.
And that caused a great flood of letters from people.
Of course.
Who said, I saw the same thing.
I never knew who to tell before.
And this continued.
I worked for that newspaper for 10 years and even though I wasn't doing really things to promote it, it just kept up.
Finally, it was 2003 when I decided to finally write the book so that there would be a permanent record and people would have a place to go.
The book then brought a huge spate of new ones.
And that's just continued for the 11 years I've been writing books.
Linda, are you aware of any human beings being either harmed, maimed, killed by any of these creatures?
Not in cases that are reported to me directly.
I've heard of other cases where people have claimed this, but they weren't things that I investigated.
I didn't have any way to vouch for their validity.
But in 23 years, the only personal injury that I've had is from a man in Quebec who wrote me that he encountered an upright wolf-like creature on a trail.
He wasn't armed or anything.
He kind of panicked.
He said he felt that it was going to jump at him, and he kind of jumped the other way.
It accidentally, he feels, tore his hip and his flank with one of its fangs.
And he had to go to the hospital and get stitches.
He sent me a picture of the scar, which doesn't necessarily prove it, but it sure looked like something that was made.
Pretty good proof, actually.
All right, Linda, hold tight.
We'll be right back.
To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your phalanges and call
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Linda Gottfried is my guest.
We're talking about werewolves.
Werewolves, and things like werewolves.
Creatures that move in the night, and they do indeed move in the night.
I hear from so many people.
Linda, here's one.
Jason writes, I'm partially, I believe it's Lumbee Indian, and I'm very interested in where you think the show Hemlock Grove's rules for werewolves, for how werewolves can change without a moon, But it causes a curse to incur and drive the wolf either insane or demonic based upon the traditional werewolf lore, I guess.
Did he say about a show?
I didn't quite understand.
I'm partially Lumbee Indian.
I'm very interested in where you think the show Hemlock Grove's rules.
Is there a show called Hemlock Grove?
I don't know.
I haven't seen it, I'm sorry.
Okay.
Haven't either.
Sorry, Jason.
Sorry, I wish I could answer better to that.
Okay.
Well, you must have seen Twilight, right?
You laughed.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, you know, the thing is, I have actually tried to correlate full moons to the sightings of these things.
And found nothing?
And found really nothing.
The closest I've found My most recent study, everything that's in my new book that will be coming out in 2016 that's at the publisher right now, I went through the whole thing and everyone that had a date that I could go back and look it up on a full moon chart, I did.
The closest correlation was not a full moon, but a half to three quarters moon.
Here's something I can tell you.
I don't know how a full moon would affect a werewolf or any other weird creature we're talking about tonight, but it sure as hell affects humans.
When I was in the Air Force, I worked as a medic and somewhat in a hospital.
And let me tell you, Linda, full moons brought it on.
And police officers can tell you, look out for people during full moons.
I mean, it's just, even talk shows can tell you.
The calls get pretty weird with full moons, so they affect human beings, and if they affect us, then they probably affect things with fangs and red eyes.
Well, they could, definitely, you know, and there may be something to that, although, as I said, I haven't found it.
But there's also a flip side, and the thing about being a reporter for 10 years is I still have this little devil's advocate sitting with its claws firmly entrenched into my shoulder, making me give the other side.
And the thing is that when there's a full moon, there are more people out at night and people can see better than they normally can.
True.
They can see animals and creatures and things that might be lurking around that normally would just be part of the darkness to them.
So, is it that animals are doing more or just that we're out there and able to see more?
You know, that's another possibility.
It's a possibility.
But I don't know.
I really don't know.
I think the full moon has an effect on behavior of mammals.
I believe that.
I agree.
I agree with that, too.
You know, I think that it does.
And you know, there's another thing that I did find had a stronger correlation than full moons, because this was the other thing that I began to look up whenever I could find a close enough, something with a close enough date.
Sometimes things happen like 10 years earlier and people have no idea, you know, what the
conditions were. But solar flares seem to have a higher positivity rate than full moons. And
to me that makes a lot of sense because when there's a sun storm, what does that affect? Electromagnetic
systems.
What is the human body? What are animal bodies? We are electro, we generate our own electromagnetic
That's what we are.
The electromagnetic field holds all the atoms.
Well, look at our brains, Linda.
Have you ever watched an operation where they're doing brain surgery on a guy, by the way, who is awake while they're doing it because you don't really have feelings in your brain.
They give you a little anesthetic when they cut and then when they put you back to sleep at the end when they're going to stitch you up, but in between you're awake and they touch a tiny electrode to a part of your brain And pretty soon your hand won't move, or your speech is different.
That's all it takes is a little tiny, tiny bit of electric current.
So, you're right.
When we're getting hit with solar storms, we are being bombarded.
And sure, it may have an effect, yes.
Well, you know, there have been some pioneering researchers.
Persinger and Lafrenier have this book, Transient I'm blanking on the name of it, but people will understand what it is.
And Janet and Colin Bord have both done studies where they've looked up spots of major known strange creature or anomalous creature sightings and then tried to see where there might be some deviation in the electromagnetic field of the area.
And they found a correlation between natural geological features such as quartz formations, granite formations, that kind of thing, And hot spots of these creature flaps.
What's out there that's likely to... I mean, we get these reports of ripped out throats, and again, I guess I'm headed toward the chupacabra, but these things are so real, you know, they empty the blood of the victim.
Whether it's a goat or whatever it is, they come out bloodless.
What do we know about creatures that Yeah, that's a good question.
And it's true that these things are found.
That happens a lot in the cattle mutilations that have been occurring around the country.
I know there are bigger experts on that than me, Linda Motow, for one.
And they find these animals.
Um, bloodless.
There's no blood splattered around the area.
Things are surgically removed.
Oh, yeah.
Um, and I've got pictures of the same thing, um, right here in Wisconsin, different areas.
I've got one from a farmer in central Wisconsin that shows an entire front leg quarter perfectly removed.
It looks like somebody took a scalpel and cut around it and certain other things are cut out.
And there's no blood splashed around anywhere as in the drag.
And I've got one, a very similar picture of a deer that had the exact same removal made.
And this was, I know for a fact, not a fresh deer, nothing that a human would want to eat or be able to eat.
And yet something did this, you know, it was, it was bloodless.
Something in that same spot picked up a 60 pound deer, carried it over, barbed or through one or the other.
a barbed wire fence left leaving by needle canine like prints and walked all the way through a field
two men were able to track it until it crossed the road what can do that they knew it had to have been carrying it
over its shoulder because there were no drag marks have you begun to experiment yourself linda
well i experiment myself in smaller ways but i've been working on a larger study with a
property owner who has some acreage kind of a hobby farm who began finding strangely mutilated
things on his property and eventually called me and and we've been kind of working together on it
But I do investigations.
I mean, I'll go out and, you know, find footprints.
I've had encounters myself.
Like what?
Well, the only dogman encounter that I've had, and I believe that it was, although I can't totally prove it, it starts out my book, The Michigan Dogman, titled The Michigan Dogman.
I was on site with a History Channel cameraman on a very remote gravel road in Michigan, kind of near the huge Manistee National Forest.
With a couple of witnesses and it was about 2 a.m., 2.30 a.m.
It was like 90 degrees and almost 100% humidity.
We were just you know drenched in sweat and we kept hearing sounds like some large dog shaking its fur out like 30 feet away in the bushes.
We kept seeing yellow eyes shine.
We kept hearing things trotting around us and finally we had a spotlight set up on the road and finally I happen to look one way and saw something start to run across the road and its fur was just the edge of its spine.
The fur was caught in that spotlight.
It was gray fur.
I could see very clearly.
I wasn't that far away from it.
And it was vertical.
And we know that it was at least seven feet tall because it momentarily blotted out a reflective road sign and it went across to the other side of the road.
One of the other witnesses saw it too.
Of course, the cameraman And I had taken pictures.
the opposite direction during the few moments it took for that thing to cross.
And at that point the witnesses just started trembling because they'd seen a tall grey one and a shorter dark
brown one and one had chased their car and they insisted we leave at
that point.
My God, you have one actual real, no question sighting, the History Channel there with a cameraman, he's pointing the
other way.
And I had taken pictures, I had some really interesting pictures and my camera disappeared.
And there was no person there.
Really?
Yes.
In fact, it was so inexplicable, we searched the ditches.
We searched all kinds of places.
There was nobody there.
Wait, wait, wait.
You're telling me that you had a camera, even though the History Channel guy was pointed the wrong way.
You had a camera.
You had the presence of mind to take pictures?
Well, not of that.
I mean, that was too momentary.
But before, there had been other things.
I had taken pictures of like footprints and the eyes, you know, and that kind of thing.
Then your camera was gone.
And yeah, I finally ran out of battery and film and I placed it inside the van, the History Channel van, where nobody would have been able to get it.
If either of the two witnesses had gone for it, I would have seen it.
I was standing, leaning next to the van.
And at the end of all that, it was gone.
There was absolutely no explanation.
The History Channel actually bought me a new camera to replace it because neither the cameraman nor the witnesses nor I could explain where it went.
Here's Greg from Caledonia.
He says, Art, I'm originally from southeast Wisconsin.
I've ridden my motorcycle down Bray Road at night and I must say the area around is kind of marshy and at night it's often foggy.
I've heard of the beast and I was really on edge the whole way.
So, a lot of people have heard about this Bray Rowe thing.
Bray Rowe thing.
A lot of them.
Right.
It's quite well known.
There's a movie I had nothing to do with that's sort of an old-fashioned style horror, gory flick that bears no relationship to anything real that happened, but that helped to make it a lot more famous.
I'm going to ask you something now that is a total turn of the corner, but I think it's in an area that you cover as well.
Mm-hmm.
You remember 9-11, of course, right?
Mm-hmm.
Oh, yes, yes.
Okay.
Everybody does.
Yep, sadly.
And I can't remember the specific picture, but I am telling you, Linda, somewhere
in the array of 9-11 pictures, photographs that were taken and video, there was a picture.
And there was scale for the picture, so you could tell some kind of gigantic bird or winged
creature of some sort was in one of these photographs.
And if you didn't see it, if nobody called your attention to it, I can't because I don't have it right now,
but I know it's out there somewhere.
Somebody will send it to me or something.
And it brings up the whole subject, at any rate, of these gigantic winged whatevers.
Yeah, and I remember seeing that at some point, but it's been a very long time.
So I'd be reluctant to talk about that one thing.
But you do get this recurring theme of winged things being thought of as harbingers of doom of some type or another.
You know, and of course, the classic would be Mothman in Point Pleasant, Virginia, which began to be seen around this community.
And then the Silver Bridge goes down and all these people are drowned and killed.
I've had a sighting of what some people call the bat squat, these 20 foot wing span bat
winged things with furry humanoids in the center.
It occurred three days before a drowning, an unexplained drowning of a university student
in La Crosse, Wisconsin.
I don't think all of them are, but it does seem that there are quite a few that have
this harbinger of doom or prophecy.
Something that big with talons grabs you, it's not a harbinger, it is doom.
Yeah, yeah, you would not want to be grabbed, no.
But seriously, there have been photographs of incredibly large winged flying things.
And that, you know, it opens up the possibility, again, that Bigfoot Werewolves, all these creatures that we can't account for, chupacabras, things that fly, may come from elsewhere and blink in and out of existence from our perspective.
I, you know, I cannot refute that anymore because I've just had too many eyewitness reports over the years, and then I see everybody, you know, other people's work too, it's just not my own work, but It's something that occurs over and over again.
People like John Keel, a lot of my present day colleagues are all sort of coming to this realization that there just isn't any way to explain them via only the natural realm anymore.
It's just, how can you have birds flying around with 20 foot wingspans?
Actually, I've got one of the best examples of one of these giant bird sightings I've ever seen anywhere, if I do say so myself, starting out my Mary Munsters book.
This happened in Hayward, Wisconsin, where a middle-aged, prosperous businessman is riding around this kind of upscale resort community near Hayward, not too far from the Mississippi River and Minnesota, I might add.
And it's a beautiful day.
He's on a bicycle.
He didn't even bring his camera because he was just going out for a bike ride before breakfast.
And he looks to the right, and there's this meadow with this high grass, and he sees this bird.
Now, this man, John Baldwin, didn't mind giving his name, is over, he's about six foot two, and he realized that this bird standing there, which was of a type he couldn't recognize, was at least a foot taller than him, maybe more, that it was standing seven to eight feet tall, or more, in this meadow.
And he was so thrilled and fascinated with it, he put down his bike and he started just walking into the meadow.
And then he stopped cold, thinking, uh-oh, what if this is a female sitting on a nest?
And it was kind of a stork-like bird with its long beak.
That's right.
And he's starting to think about what it could do to him with that beak.
That's right.
And suddenly it turns and sees him.
So that was kind of the do-or-die moment.
But luckily for him, the bird decided to fly away.
He sees its wings come out and they were so big it had to flap them in a billowing manner to get enough air underneath them to take off at all.
And then it moved over toward the road that he's riding on.
And when I went up there and interviewed him and measured the road, that asphalt road measured between 20 and 22 feet wide.
And he said that its wingtips spread from side to side minimum.
And he watched it flying up the road toward where he knew there was a small airport that serviced mostly the private planes that came in and he thought, oh good, somebody's there.
It's going to have caught it on radar or they'll have seen it or something.
Get some corroboration.
And when he inquired, it was completely denied.
Nope, nothing weird on radar.
Nope, we didn't see it.
We didn't see it.
And yet, I mean, this is over, you know, several minutes.
It was broad daylight, close range.
And you know, a man in perfect health with good eyesight in the daytime.
So the trouble with most large bird sightings is they're up in the air and you have nothing to compare them to to really get a good idea of their size.
And that argument is completely taken away in this case.
All right.
Well, here's a hard one for you.
And it's the one that goes to all the Bigfoot guys.
And that is if something this out of our normal frame of reference is seen by somebody, whether it's in the woods or wherever it is.
There are some people who say, look, take a gun, shoot the thing, we'll get it, we'll dissect it, we'll do all the things that a lot of people hate to think about, and we'll find out what it is and everything we can about it.
And for that reason, it should be shot.
Other people say no, Never, never, never.
A lot of people don't want anything to be shot.
Which camp are you in?
Yeah, this is a really controversial thing going on right now.
I have to say, first of all, I am not a vegetarian.
I eat meat.
I come from a long line of hunters.
My dad was an avid deer hunter.
My husband's an avid deer hunter.
I'm not asking you to eat it.
But I'm just saying I'm not one of these no-gun, no-kill-anything people.
I do believe that it is wrong and crazy to go out and kill something when you don't know what it is just to find out what it is.
Because how are you going to know if you're going to like what you find?
There are crazy people who wear ghillie suits and bear suits and things like that that are out in the woods.
You might be shooting a human without knowing it, and then you're up for murder.
Well, maybe.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Hold on, Linda.
I've got a break.
I get so interested in what I'm doing that I sometimes blow my breaks, but I need this one.
So, we'll be right back.
We're talking about werewolves and much, much more.
part of the Dark Matter Digital Network.
This is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
Now, here's Art.
Here I am, and Lind Gottfried is here.
We're talking about, frankly, all manner of creatures that are just not normal.
And if anybody out there has that 9-11 picture or knows the one I'm talking about, boy, I sure would love to get a copy of that.
It showed one of the buildings.
I can't remember who took it, where it was, but I went, oh my God.
Actually, you know, I think I said something on the air about it.
I believe I did.
And I haven't seen that picture in a long time, but you could tell by the scale of the distance in the building that whatever it was was absolutely gigantic.
Okay, Linda, we're back on.
One quick question from Mark in Huntsville, Alabama, and it's a good one, too.
Please ask her if anybody has reported any sort of smell emanating from these biped dog-like animals, and it really goes for all these animals.
They generally have odors associated with them, right?
Yeah, yeah.
That's something that, it's one of my standard questions when I interview someone, and oftentimes they'll just volunteer that.
I won't even have to ask it, but they very slightly, for the dog man, they'll say it smells like one example they'll say it smells like the worst wet filthy dog
smell that like if your dog needed I know that smell yes like and very sharp
and ammonia like and sometimes with a sulfur tinge to it and then with the Bigfoot
I'll get they seem to have a range of smells ranging from mildly offensive
where it's just like like kind of a smoky grass type of smell with a little bit
of musk to it to something that's a little harsher more sulfur like and even
more skunk like and I have that smell myself and describe it's almost like what
was exuded in the place where I was I had just had a 35 foot long 8 inch
diameter living oak branch ripped from a tree right in front of me and the
smell was that that thought that slightly skunky but musty grass smell
Very overwhelming.
How many actual encounters have you had?
You described the one.
I would think if you're out in the field a lot, which I guess you aren't really.
You're more of an author than you are an investigator, right?
Well, I have been whenever there's an incident that I can get there and Look for prints, examine for hairs, that kind of thing.
I like to interview the people in the field.
I do my own research.
I have trail cams out.
I assist people and do different things.
So I'm not just an armchair person.
I'm not just a writer.
I feel I like to do my own work and be able to report firsthand.
And that's why, yeah, I actually have had a number of things happen.
More with the Bigfoot than actually with the Wolfman.
Really?
Well, Bigfoot sightings are a lot more common than the Wolfman or Dogman sightings.
There are many, many more of them.
I'm not sure why that is.
If the population is higher or the Dogman are more reclusive or they're just not quite so huge that, you know, they're as easy to see.
But yeah, I've had other experiences with them.
From listeners.
Sure, sure.
And I don't call myself an expert, but I... No, I call you that.
That many books, that many investigations.
Trust me, you're an expert.
Thank you.
I'm Art Bell.
calls when we come back.
I'll be back.
Bye.
Bye.
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Hi, everybody.
Welcome back.
Linda Guthrie's here.
She's talking about things that walk on two legs and you probably don't want to meet.
Call them werewolves.
Call them what you will.
And let me give my quick speech.
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Linda, welcome back.
Glad to be back.
I would like to add, Linda, that I found, one of my listeners, they always do, bless their hearts, found for me that picture, the 9-11 picture, that I was talking about.
I have now sent that to my webmaster, and with any luck at all, he will get that photograph up pronto, and we'll all be able to look, including you, at what I, alright, he's already done it.
How's that for speed?
Uh, can you, do you have a computer there, Linda?
Yeah, are we on artbell.com?
Yep, artbell.com would be the place.
Be the first thing, it'll come up, and then you have to click on it, make it a little bit bigger.
Mm-hmm.
Damnedest thing you ever saw.
Well, it's, um, oh, there, I see it.
Oh, yeah, there you go.
Now, take a good look at the blow-up of the size of that thing.
Linda, compared to, you know, it's on the other side of the building, in my opinion, that is big.
That's really, really big.
It is.
You know, there were a lot of people taking pictures, of course, during all of that.
And what do you think?
I mean, how big is that thing?
Yeah, like I was saying, when it's in the sky and all that's really next to it is clouds, it's hard to say with any certainty, but I mean it looks gigantic at first glance.
Yeah, like it's one of those 20, 25 foot or more wingspan birds and it's hard to tell just from that what the species is too.
Well, it's obviously, look, Linda, it's not in the foreground.
Take a good look at the picture at the bottom there where you see it with reference to the building.
So it's obviously far, far away.
Then when they blow it up, and they did a pretty good job of blowing it up, that's a damn monster.
Yeah, it is.
And why weren't people seeing it?
Yeah, it's just very Very strange.
Yeah, in that case, you're right.
If you're thinking it's on the other side of the other building, then it's got to be doubled, you know, maybe 40 feet, 50 feet.
And those look like big wings.
I mean, even if it was a close-in picture, you can tell a small bird and a monster.
This is, to me, it's a monster.
Anyway, that came to mind.
Very cool.
Wow.
Yeah.
Cool, I guess, unless you happen to meet it.
Let's go to some questions.
Let's go to some questions.
Ty, on Skype, you're on the air with Linda.
Hi.
Can you hear me?
I do.
Yes.
Okay, great.
I just wanted to ask Linda if she had any comment about the Yee Nalbushi, the Navajo legend, also known as Skinwalkers.
I just wondered if you had studied that at all.
Yeah, quite a bit.
The Navajo name is, I think it actually means something like, it goes fast or it goes on her feet.
And it's considered, I mean, I know Native American people who will not even say that term out loud for fear of drawing its attention to them.
But it's supposed to be something that is Considered sorcery by the other people and it does really bad things when it goes out and normally that's what it's supposedly sent out on bad errands by those who create it and every tribe seems to have its own version for instance the Canadian Cree have what they call the bear walker and in this instance there will be a bear that goes forth and there was even a there was a bear walker curse put on
One of the Michigan colleges, not too long ago, when there was some argument over some remains that needed to be repatriated to that particular tribe, and I've got this in my Strange Michigan book that I wrote, just, you know, you'd think that these things are from another century or that nobody's practicing them anymore, but from what I understand, you know, they are out there.
And people who feel that they've been visited by this We'll describe something that looks different than the usual dog-man, canine type of thing.
It's what we were talking about earlier with the red glowing eyes, the super-size type.
It often does things like stare in windows at people, track them around it.
Usually it's very dark in color, has shoulders, it will show hands, and sometimes seems to go to sort of Take pains to show that it has hands.
Laying them right on the windowsill or where the person can see them.
So it does have some humanistic features compared to the normal canines that we see.
Very interesting.
And we're really glad to have you back, Art.
Thank you.
Thank you so much and take care.
Scott, let's go to the phone and I think Seattle, Washington.
Hello there.
Hi there, Art.
Listen, I don't know too much about werewolves, but what I've been listening to is very interesting.
It brings to mind a theory of mine.
I'd like to ask Linda what she thinks of it.
Is it possible that what some people might be thinking they're seeing as werewolves are maybe just drunk Italians?
Drunk Italians?
Yeah.
Well, you know, I don't think that there's any one nationality or even human connection to most of these creatures.
And, you know, I assume that you're being facetious.
Well, he's being a creature.
Not a very nice one, either.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I happen to like Italians.
I have a lot of Italian friends.
Me too.
Well, I've just heard walks on two legs and is really hairy, that kind of stuff.
You know, that's just... What I used to get is, no, that was my brother-in-law or something like that.
At least it wasn't your sister-in-law.
There you go.
Okay, let's go to Washington, Georgia.
Hello.
Hello, Linda.
Hello, Art.
Hi.
I saw a creature when I was camping in Pennsylvania.
I don't know if you're familiar with that area at all.
Somewhat.
I get a lot of reports from there.
Okay, great.
Well, I was with a couple friends of mine and they saw it as well.
It had yellow eyes.
It had almost like a human face with very long, very big, almost kind of wrinkly ears.
It had hair or fur on that as well and on their faces, like all the way on its face.
It had very large hands.
But very skinny arms.
And it also had, I noticed that its legs were, you know, like the knees bent backwards, like hyperextending, you know, in a way.
Classic description.
The most disturbing thing about it, that I didn't hear you comment, that still haunts me to this day when I think about, is its head movement.
It's funny you should say that because I just recently had somebody write me the same thing.
They said it was, as they looked at it, it was moving its head sort of back and forth as if it was kind of trying to measure when was the best time to pounce.
And when I saw this, it was maybe about two feet away from me.
I don't think it knew I was there, because I was sleeping in a Volkswagen van.
And it was in a campground called Otter Lake in Pennsylvania.
And there was a couple of hunters that were up fairly late by the fire.
And it seemed to be very engaged in what they were doing.
It was paying a lot of attention to them, peering its head around at the campers very suddenly.
At first I thought it was another camper.
My eyes adjusted and I thought it was.
I was absolutely terrified.
For the rest of the night me and my buddy just cowered in the van.
We even called the state police.
They acted like they didn't know where we were and thought we were drunk.
How did they treat you?
Basically, they kind of laughed and said, well, we have no idea where that is.
We wouldn't know how to get to you.
We suggest you stay in the car.
And that was basically it.
Not very helpful.
That is the usual reaction.
I actually have had two sheriff's deputies from a nearby county here approach me not too long ago to tell me that between the two of them, they had seen four different upright dogman-like creatures.
Over the past couple of years and their official thing they were supposed to say when they went out to check on a place was I went there and I didn't see anything.
But yet they will come privately and now you're going to think this is going to seem like a setup because I happen to have in my lap one that I got just this last month from a deputy sheriff in Frederick County, Virginia.
Who actually saw what I was just telling you about and when he described it he said he originally thought it was a bear with mange and then he noticed it had a curled up long hand paw with curled up looking claws that brushed, he saw it brush a tree and he felt every hair go up telling me to leave it and it would be okay so he left but he said the thing was that It had looked like it was twitching constantly, which is
exactly like what you said.
He said, the claws, I will never forget, they were upturned monster claws on long hand paws.
Remember I had said elongated paws is one of the things that they have.
And this is from a deputy sheriff.
I don't know if it was related but I heard a very weird call.
It was almost like a two-toned, like a scream and another call all within one.
I don't know if that had been reported as well or if you've heard anything about that.
Yeah, I have.
Although you hear the same sort of description in regard to what are thought of as Bigfoot
calls too.
I've heard that applied to the Bigfoot so it's hard to say when you don't see the animal
actually emit it.
But if you go to lynngodfrey.com you can find where to email me and if you want to just
send me an email report of this I'd really appreciate it because it really...
Might make it in a book.
Absolutely.
I can probably get you the other two eyewitnesses.
They were brothers.
They were there as well.
I can probably get them to contribute as well.
Oh, that really counts.
You bet.
When you get three, then you've really got something.
Do that.
Get it to her.
Great.
All right.
Thanks a million, Colin.
Right.
Take care.
Thank you.
There you go.
Sassy Abby, you're on with Linda.
Hi.
Hi.
I just met you the other night.
Is it echoing?
A little bit, but not bad.
Go ahead.
I just met you the other night when I was scared of the ghosts that I don't believe in.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah, so we listen to you every night.
And tonight, I was thinking, okay, this won't scare me, because werewolves, you know.
But I had a really weird experience about three months ago, and I was driving home.
I had to move my mom from Minneapolis to Madison.
And I was driving home on one of my trips, moving our stuff, alone.
It was about 1 a.m.
And I was in the middle of nowhere.
I wasn't in a town or anything.
And I was really tired because I'd been driving all day.
And all of a sudden, out of the corner of my eye, I distinctly saw a person running out of the woods, straight towards the side of my car.
And I was going about 65.
And I thought, okay, I've been driving too long, I'm seeing things.
And all of a sudden, smack into the side of my car.
And I was terrified because it was pitch black out, there's no traffic, there's nobody around, and there's nothing near me.
I was just in the middle of nowhere.
This came out of the woods.
Are you telling me you hit this thing?
Or it hit you?
It hit me.
It ran into the side of my car.
What, any damage?
Yeah.
Yes.
My car was dented.
And it looked like a person, you said?
What?
It looked like a person, you said?
Yeah, like, out of the corner of my eye.
I was really tired, so I don't, you know, I don't know what I saw, but I could have sworn it was on two legs.
And it was probably about six feet tall or taller.
And in the corner of my eye I saw it, and what I thought I saw was a man wearing a grey sweatshirt with his hood up.
Holy smokes.
Alright, listen to me.
Let's have the rest of the story.
I don't want this hanging.
So, obviously you would stop your car, right?
I was too scared.
I was in the middle of nowhere.
And I didn't understand why someone would come out of the woods and run straight into
my car when there's no traffic or anything.
If they needed to cross the street, why would they wait until there was a car coming?
So I thought I should call the police.
And I thought, what did I just see and what was that?
And I was like, what do I say to the police?
That somebody darted out of the woods and ran into my car?
So I drove home, I was probably about 30-40 minutes, and I was shaking.
I was scared.
I didn't know what had just happened to me.
I got out to see if there was damage to my car, and I thought about conflicts, and I decided it had to have been an animal, because there was nothing around there.
Yeah, but six feet tall?
That's what it looked like out of the corner of my eye.
So then the next day, I looked in the papers, and I looked through everything to see if anybody, you know, if there were any dead bodies in the road, because that would have made the local news, and there wasn't nothing.
Well, I don't know if it was an animal.
I don't know what it was, but it sure seemed nuts.
Linda, what would you ask?
Well, I would say that it's very common that when people spot a dog man and they're looking at it and it's moving quickly, their first impression will often be that it's somebody with a hoodie or with a gray fur jacket or something like that on until they can get a better look at it.
That's exactly what it looked like and it was really terrifying.
It was running very fast.
Very fast.
That's why I thought that couldn't have been a person.
That's something else that I hear.
For some reason, I've got a whole chapter on this in my new book, there are a certain number of them that seem to be very attracted to cars.
They'll run straight into them.
They'll run alongside them.
They'll run right behind them.
And it's very unlike normal animals, other than like farm dogs, you know, that chase a car.
But it seems like there's some other agenda, and it just terrifies people.
And don't worry, you're not the only person... I've never had anybody really say that they just stopped when it was in the... Alright, listen, I'm gonna... Hold on, hold on.
Both of you... Ma'am, hold it, hold it.
Both of you hold on, okay?
Alright, good.
We'll be back.
And in my foolish love you stay On this deadland ocean finding love
Take a walk on the wild side of midnight From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
Linda Godfrey is here, and we are talking about creatures.
And we've got a lady, Abby, on the phone, who was driving along at how many miles an hour, Abby, when this happened?
Can you tell me?
Yeah, I was going about 65.
Okay, so you were going good and fast, and this creature, six feet in size, smacks into the side of your car.
That's where we were, and Linda, that's incredible, and you're telling me, I don't want to say it's normal, but you've had other reports.
Yeah, it happens fairly frequently, and you know, it's just inexplicable as to why they would want to take such a chance with themselves.
Most wild animals will try and just go across the road and get away from you.
There are also those who cross in front of the car almost as if they're sort of daring it to stop or playing a game with it too.
All right, Caller, here's a question for you.
It comes from the computer and it's a good one too.
There would have been If it was that heavy, it hit that hard, how much damage to the car was there, and was there any blood or hair on the car?
No blood, no hair.
I checked for blood because I was afraid that I'd hurt somebody.
Obviously.
No blood at all.
And the dent, you can see the dent, it's on the driver's side of the car, because that's where it snagged into me.
And you can definitely see the dent, but it wasn't as big as I thought it was going to be.
It's a good indentation, you can see it, but it wasn't like serious damage to the car or anything.
But you can see it where it hit.
I have had people send me a package of hair.
I have a package of hair sitting right a few feet away from me that I just haven't been able to get it identified anywhere.
But it was taken off the bumper of a similar incident.
Okay.
Well, Abby, thank you very much for the call and the story.
That's just absolutely amazing.
All right.
Let's go to our next phone call, whoever that is.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Cousar from Arizona?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
First time caller ever.
Thank you.
I was going to ask Linda, and I give her courage for speaking about this subject, because not many people are upright, and people think you're crazy.
In Mexico, these creatures are known as naguales, the dogmen.
And the last three months, I've been getting the oral stories from the family about their encounters with the naguales, whether it's my aunt or an uncle.
Um, how familiar are you with the Carlo Castaneda's works?
Um, yeah, I've read some of those and I, I am fairly familiar with them.
Um, not everyone agrees that they're entirely accurate.
I've, I've had a lot of correspondence with, um, some Central and South American, um, people who, who study these things quite a bit, but, um, did you have a special question about him or?
No, um, it was just that because he, he, he talks about The being able to become a creature and, you know, I somewhat tie that to that.
And just talking to my family and I've got them on camera talking in Spanish about what they've seen.
I, you know, just started doing my own research.
I also came upon an author known as Daniel Britton Garrison from the 1800s.
I don't know if you're familiar with his works as well.
No, that one doesn't ring a bell.
It's interesting.
Are there legends in Spanish about humans that can become creatures?
Oh, yes.
It's something that's like, like she said, the tribes don't talk about it because it'll come to you.
A lot of it is sorcery, they say.
But a lot, like I said, I've had a lot of families, I've been interviewing family members About it.
Some don't want to talk about it, or they'll tell me it, but they don't want to do it on camera.
But I have had some stories on camera, and they tell me about it in Spanish.
And it goes pre-Aztec times.
So, yeah, it's very, very widespread.
I know another, I think Central American name, I can't remember exactly which country, but it's known as the Lobazon, is another term.
And it's quite widespread.
It's all over, North and South America.
Duncan in New Zealand says, Art... No, that's the wrong one.
Gary in Czechoslovakia, my goodness.
He says, I'm Hopi on my father's side.
The spirit world is not paranormal.
It is simple reality.
It is the norm That for some reason modern people simply cannot understand.
I've been close to the spirits my whole life.
It's just real.
I don't disagree with that.
You know, I mean whether you take it from a certain religious view or from the many physicists that are coming up with actual plausible scientific explanations for the idea of other worlds.
It's just not the everyday Reality we perceive with our five senses.
No, it isn't.
And there are psychological explanations for a caller we had earlier.
On Skype, Trey, you're on the air.
Hey, Art.
Hey.
Greetings from your Steam group.
Thank you.
I was wondering if Linda had any plans on talking about the Mothman or any future stories she would do about that.
I think we could probably encourage that.
And I'd also love a whole show on that, by the way.
Well, we don't have a whole show left, but Linda, what about Mothman?
A lot of people have a lot of interest, like this caller.
Yes, yeah, that's a really well-known and popular topic, and it well should be.
It was very well studied by the late, great John Keel, who sort of actually moved into the area for a while.
And if you read his, he wrote The Mothman Prophecy and has written about it in quite a few other places.
And the interesting thing that not many people realize is that there was a lot more going on there than these giant strange bird-like creatures.
There were hundreds of UFO sightings that he personally investigated and also men in black were appearing.
It was a whole combination of phenomena.
That took place in this area over that time frame.
So I think it's a much more complex thing than just the Mothman.
And sadly, I guess the man who created that Mothman statue or sculpture that's become sort of iconic right downtown Point Pleasant where they have the festival every year just passed away I think in the last week.
And maybe that's bringing that the thought of that story to a lot of people's minds.
But yeah, there are lots and lots of witnesses.
There are many other materials.
There are some really great photographic books that have been brought out recently about
it.
If you go looking, you can find a lot of interesting material.
Did you have any special question about it or one certain thing?
Yeah, actually.
Do you think this is something sort of spiritual or otherworldly, or do you think this is maybe an alien thing?
I mean, what are your opinions on it?
Well, I tend to go more toward the otherworldly thing than straight out other planet alien, just because all of these creatures, even when, you know, they're composed of different parts that shouldn't belong together, They're still recognizably, in most cases, earthly-type animals.
You know, it's a mothman which has bird wings or, you know, a long beak.
The giant birds are obviously versions of smaller birds.
The dogmen resemble wolves.
Whereas I would think if they were coming from, you know, some far-off quadrant of the galaxy, they would look more unrecognizable.
Not that we don't have those, too.
You know, it's just that that's another subject.
You know, we do have greys and reptilians and all these other things that people describe seeing, but, you know, they're not quite the same thing in my book.
How often?
I've got to call her.
Thank you.
Anything else?
Yes.
I was going to ask if she found this to be some sort of harbinger for things or if we moved away from that perception of it.
All right.
I do believe that many of these things It seems to be perceived that way by people, and I think we talked about that earlier in the show, but quite often, if you look, it seems like they do show up just before something bad is going to happen.
All right.
How about this?
I have heard you now mention any number of times a UFO report connected to a nearby sighting of one of these things that we have talked about, so how frequently Does that connection get made?
Fairly often.
That was another thing that I've explored in my forthcoming book.
I've been really, really looking at this and it ties into the idea that a lot of people like to believe that, especially Bigfoot, possibly Dogman, are actually aliens and that they're either piloting the UFOs or that they're sort of left out as agents or pets or you know there are all sorts of different theories but very very often where you've got especially a flap area or a hot spot of sightings you will also find UFOs or spook lights and or other types of strange lights and it's kind of like the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah where they had the whole panorama of things happening
And I actually had a UFO experience myself in this very field I was talking about earlier, where we've been finding the enigmatic footprints and having deer carcasses mutilated and all that sort of thing.
You know, I interviewed Robert Bigelow.
Really?
Yes.
I would like to do that.
Yes, he's a rare catch, to be sure.
Bob and I are actually kind of friends.
He's an amazing guy.
And what went on up at that ranch is nothing short of amazing.
I actually think that what happened at that ranch closed a chapter for Robert, and he moved on.
He's now very much into space, putting hotels into space.
He's got contracts with NASA.
He's really turned a corner.
But I think with that ranch, he answered some questions, Linda.
And I think the answers are amazing answers.
And he just... I would like to know those answers.
Did he share that with you?
Not in every case.
He shared with me the things, the impossible things that happened there.
He bought it because those things were happening there.
And then he documented them.
I believe he found out what he wanted to know and moved on.
That's just my opinion.
That's terrific.
Well, and I do know that he had a lot of the scientific equipment and real scientists to throw at it.
Oh, yes.
I mean, it was studied as best as it possibly could have been.
And, you know, I kind of envy that.
Working with my property owner out there in that field and we are not funded that way and and yet we still find ourselves coming to conclusions that we thought we never would have come to before.
All right, on the phone you're on the air with Linda.
Hello?
Yes, hello.
Oh, okay.
Hi, Linda.
Hi, Art.
Hi.
I just want to tell you guys this story.
It happened about 25 years ago with my children.
My children would cross the road and go up in this guy's driveway and play all the time.
Well, one evening, they came running in the house.
They said, Mom, we heard a werewolf.
I thought, well, now they've heard this weird dog, you know, and I went back outside and I could hear it too.
And it wasn't like a regular dog.
It was very, very odd.
Well, I didn't know what to think about it.
And, you know, I was a typical housewife cooking and taking care of stuff.
So I just went in the house and it was just when the sun was going down when this happened.
And I lived kind of in the woods area, but this guy had, like I say, a big long concrete driveway that my kids would play on.
Well, that evening though, I want you to know, God will strike me dead, but it is the truth.
We had a big picture window in the house, and that guy was a doctor that lived up on this hill, and he would come home late of the night.
Well, I heard a strange sound.
And I went to that picture window, and I looked out in my yard, and I could see the car lights of him coming up the road.
And right there, I have never, I never, I always thought it was a joke.
Werewolves were a joke.
But I saw this thing that had a huge back, and when it turned its head around, it had a snout at least a foot and a half long on it.
Wow.
Its body was huge.
I have never seen anything like that.
And you mentioned about UFOs.
There were some weird lights that we'd seen just prior to me seeing this.
It scared me so bad.
I ran in the back room and locked the door.
You said it made a sound.
You said it made a sound.
Can you describe that sound?
Well, sort of like a weird dog.
You know, sort of like that.
I'm not really sure exactly how to describe it.
Did it have a relationship to that doctor?
Okay, hold on a sec.
Linda, go ahead.
Were you saying, did it have a relationship to that doctor?
I wasn't quite sure.
Were you saying that the doctor transformed into this?
Or it was just outside when the doctor was driving home?
Yeah, it was just outside when he was coming in.
This guy came in late at the evening because he was like an emergency room doctor and he worked late.
And I had been staying up a little bit later.
I guess this was close to midnight, maybe around that time.
But I never expected anything.
I just thought, well, there he comes.
But the way the car drove into where the lights came into my yard seat.
And I did not see any hands or arms, but I did see it moved its body and it had huge shoulder.
I've never seen anything like that in my life.
And it had to be at least maybe six foot tall, maybe, but its back was so large when it turned its head.
Now, I want you to know, I thought all that stuff was a joke.
And I never believed in anything like werewolves, because I grew up, I'm an older lady, and I watched all those horror films years ago, and I just thought that type of stuff was a joke.
But when I saw that, and that freaked me out so much, like I say.
Well, that's where the jokes stop.
When you actually have an experience like that, the jokes stop, and you become different.
Yeah.
That's really true, and I have such a great respect for all the people who come forward and share their stories, and I would love also if you'd like to send this one to me, and I don't mind giving my email, it's just lindagodfrey99 at gmail.com, or you can go to lindagodfrey.com and find a link to send me that, but I would really love to have that report.
We've had actually a pretty good number of pretty good reports, short the Italians and I. They've been very good.
I agree yeah and I mean especially when I'm sitting there I can't get over the man talking about the head movement and then I just happen to have one out because it's very very recent but yeah I was afraid she was going to say that the doctor changed into the creature but you know it's interesting because again I have gotten some transformation type of experiences which I usually don't and enough for me to kind of devote a whole chapter to them.
In my forthcoming book.
Can you relate one of those?
I mean, of course, that's stuff of the movies, but you have witnesses who have seen humans transform into something else?
Yes, either that or that they've seen what is obviously a human, part wolf, part human type of thing.
Really?
Yeah, really.
For instance, there was one One woman who she and her boyfriend were walking through a Los Angeles park about dusk and there weren't many people in the park at that time and there was a jogger coming toward them and it ran right straight up to them and she felt actually kind of nervous like she was trying to make her boyfriend move farther out of the way from this jogger there was something about him and he got closer and it was a human body in a jogger suit
But with a complete wolf head and breathing hard enough that she could see, it wasn't like a mask or, you know, a rubber over the head type of werewolf costume.
And it just looked at them and then leaped completely over a park bench and ran down to where there was sort of a tunnel under this bridge sort of thing.
Okay, for a lady who started out the show by saying werewolves aren't real, You know, it seems to me like you're pinning down werewolves as being real.
If I saw a human transform into a wolf-like creature, particularly a really big one, big teeth, maybe red eyes, it's a werewolf.
And if it isn't a werewolf, not sure I want to know what it is.
Either way, I don't want to know.
We'll be back.
Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
Now, here's Art.
Here I am, and Linda Gottfried is my guest.
Our landline number, area code 952-225-5278.
Skype at MITD51, or internationally, MITD55.
Skype at MITD51 or internationally MITD55.
And here, Linda, is a description from somebody in Minnesota of what they claim was the sound of a werewolf at
a church.
At first, it sounded like a woman coughing, then turned into gagging, and transmuted into a dog-like howling, and very loud, horrifying howl.
Couldn't sleep right for months, from Minnesota.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Um, I've also, I have to say, I've also heard big screams described the same way as that.
I have, and I like to ask people if they actually saw the creature making the sound, because that's the only way to really relate it to it.
And several times when people have actually observed it making the sound, what they've described is more like a variably pitched growl, kind of like those old-fashioned... Remember when everybody had a cappuccino maker?
Yeah.
And it would kind of be this up and down sound, like... Sure, sure, sure.
Like an octave in between, only really chilling in a much lower and higher octave.
Very scary thing that sounded like nothing I'd ever heard and I had very unrelated people This is completely unpublished and they would make the exact same sound for me somewhere.
I have one recorded But yeah it but yeah, you don't know if you don't really see the creature that creature making that sound Unfortunately, you can't say for sure.
Yeah, you know what I that sound as described.
I don't want to see that creature.
I Not me.
On Skype, you're on the air.
Matthew?
Art Bell, praise the Lord, hallelujah.
I finally got through.
Now, this woman is a very good guest, but I have to say that West Virginia has been a state since 1861, and Mothman is not from Virginia.
Wait a minute, West Virginia?
Yes, West Virginia.
And then Virginia?
Yes.
West Virginia's been a state since 1861.
Point Pleasant is in West Virginia, not Virginia.
I thought that I said West Virginia.
I may have misspoken.
I apologize if I did, but you're entirely correct, of course.
I'd say werewolves are very real, Mr. Bell.
They are satanic influences.
The werewolf call sounds like the cry of the unborn baby whose blood these people have been baptized in, and the mothers who never got to hold their baby.
They are witches!
Are they?
You know, I have a question for you.
Yes, sir.
Are you related to anybody who used to call this show called JC?
I am his spiritual son, Mr. Bell.
I thought you might be.
Blood tells.
That's all I can say.
Blood tells.
Well, I'll take my answer off the air.
Thank you very much.
I don't know what your question is.
Yeah, I think it was more of a statement.
Exactly.
I know that voice.
I swear.
Even if Jay-Z has passed to the great beyond, that caller's got the blood in him.
Uh, do a script.
Very quick Skype call.
Hello, Tom.
Nathan, you're on the air.
Hi.
Uh, hey, Art.
Hey.
Hey, uh, I'm sorry.
Let me just, uh, turn this off.
Yes, always do that, please.
Yeah, you have me, you have me.
I was on hold on the phone.
The infamous turning down your device.
Uh, I'm a huge fan, Art.
Thank you so much for taking the call.
Sure.
Um, uh, I grew up, Art.
Uh, Linda, hello, too.
Uh, it's a great show.
It's great stuff.
I grew up in Bordentown, New Jersey, a really old town on the Delaware River, where Joseph Bonaparte, one of the original witnesses to the Jersey Devil, he had an estate there.
He also had this weird, like, cave structure on the river called the Rock Gardens in the town I grew up in.
And I'll make this short, Linda, I was just curious what your what your thoughts or theories on the Jersey Devil were.
And also, one of the questions I had had already been answered about cryptids appearing
at the same time as UFO sightings. Some in southeastern PA I've read about where there's
those strange deer with the bent back legs being seen in conjunction with UFOs.
And that's really interesting, but that question obviously has already been brought up.
All right, we have this real quick break we have to do, so what we'll do is do it and we'll come back and we'll talk about the Jersey Devil a little bit.
you know it seems like everybody or every where i should say
some kind of devil monster connected to do
to hi i'm a job out and it's very late so i'm sleeping now
But yo, Rick, so call my daddy, because he's awake, too.
The number is 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952.
Call Art.
And that's Asia.
All right, Linda, welcome back.
I want to remind everybody, I have found Madman Markham.
Alright, Linda, welcome back. I want to remind everybody I have found Madman Markham. He'll be here tomorrow night.
Linda, it's great to have you back and boy, we've been through a lot tonight.
A lot of really good calls.
I'm very impressed with everybody.
Let's go to Nathan.
Nathan, you're on with Linda.
Hi.
Hi, thanks for having me back, Mark.
Okay, you're breaking up a little bit, so... Okay, I'm sorry.
That's all right.
Just get good and close to whatever your device is.
Okay, it's this tablet here.
Okay, well, you find a little hole in the tablet, and you talk into that.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Is that better?
Much better, yes.
Okay, sorry.
Again, thank you again so much for having me, Art.
I've been obsessed with the Jersey Devil since I've been a kid, obviously, growing up in the town that he'd been spotted in, and that's a very interesting thing for me.
I'd love to hear what Linda has to say, but also, just out of curiosity, I'm wondering If there are cat creatures or more cat-like creature sightings, that'd be really interesting to hear.
I know there's a lot of dog creatures and whatnot.
But yeah, I'll take my question off the air, and thanks again for having me, Art.
Sure.
You bet.
Shout out to Bordentown, my dad John, who I experienced lost time with, and turn me on to your show, and my Uncle Bob.
You know, keep it weird, New Jersey.
I love you so much, Art.
You're a huge, huge influence in my life.
It's so great to hear you back on the air.
Thank you, my friend.
All right.
Well, there you have it.
The Jersey Devil.
I have no idea.
What is the Jersey Devil, anyway?
The Jersey Devil is actually a really famous cryptid, although it's very hard to pin down exactly what it looks like.
And it's kind of confusing because it's supposed to have started with This old legend dating back to 1735, where a woman had one too many children and cursed it, and it turned out to be a demon that ate family and ran into the woods.
That's one version, there are different versions.
And then it surfaced again, not until almost 200 years later, in 1909, went into Haddon Heights, and 30 different New Jersey communities.
And in Haddon Heights, all the passengers on a city trolley saw the creature at the same time.
The fire departments were shooting it with water hoses, and it was said to look kind of like a kangaroo with wings, and it would fly up on houses and leave footprints shaped like horses' hooves.
So it was this really, really weird thing, and not so much doing destruction as, well, pets and farm animals would go missing, basically, was what happened.
And then it sort of went away again, Supposedly it still shows up now and then.
I know people from the area who study it at great depth and they say there are still some sightings of it but I don't know if the gentleman also wanted me to address the cat-like creatures because that is something that's much lesser known but does happen and I talked about that in the Real Wolf Men book.
I started getting reports especially out of California out of something that I call the Doberman Lynx because it seems to be, and especially seen around the canyons around LA for some reason, where it looks kind of like part bipedal lion combined with these high ear tufts and some of the facial features that remind people more of like a Doberman, which is really strange and I'm not sure what to make of it.
I don't know if it's just some strange special breed that has cropped up there.
But then you go into the southern states and there's a very widespread legend of something
called the wampus cat, which is something like, again, a mountain lion walking upright
that has a blood-chilling yowl and screams and again goes back to a very ancient legend
that may or may not be connected with modern day science.
The only cat I ever saw, Linda, I drove for 10 years between here and Las Vegas.
One night coming down the mountain on the Vegas side, this thing walked across the street.
It was a mountain lion, I'm sure of it.
Pretty sure of it.
It was gigantic.
And I'm telling you, Linda, it covered both lanes.
You know, it was only one lane going each direction.
And I slammed the... I was doing 70.
Wow.
Uh, slammed the brakes on, uh, went every way but sideways, and I missed the thing, thank God, but it scared the poop out of me.
I don't blame you.
Yeah, they're scary.
I'm much more afraid of those than Bigfoot or Dogman.
When I say big, it covered both lanes.
It was that big.
Wow.
I wasn't going to miss it unless it moved enough, and it did, thank God.
Yikes.
Yikes is right.
Alright, uh, let's Go here to the telephone, and I think Florida.
Hello.
Hi.
I want to ask your guest if she's familiar with the story.
I've seen several stories this summer about sightings in the Milwaukee area of some sort of big cat.
One story I'm reading right now from July says, Milwaukee's Beast, the mysterious mountain lion terrifying Wisconsin.
Can you give us an update on what the latest on that is?
And then second question, have you ever, I know you did a book on ghosts.
Have you ever seen a ghost?
And what is your feeling about the credibility of EVP recordings as evidence?
Do you think that's credible or not?
Okay, that's quite a wide range.
It is.
But I can start you off.
Yeah, definitely.
I've been following The Mountain Lion very closely because I've been gearing up for a very big blog post.
I did a preliminary blog post.
If you go to LyndaGodfrey.com and go back just a couple of spaces in the blogs, You'll find one on that Milwaukee mountain lion and some previous ones that were in the area.
I happen to live right smack in the pathway.
My husband was stalked and almost attacked two years ago in October by a mountain lion that he then saw the next day and two of our neighbors saw it too.
They come from the back hills.
They go through Minnesota.
They come down through southeastern Wisconsin and that's how one ended up in Chicago five
years ago that ended up being shot.
And that same one had been identified by DNA as being within five miles of my house.
So I like to keep tabs on these.
I took a walk in the Kettle Moraine with some friends last winter in February looking for
some Bigfoot signs and instead we saw hundreds and hundreds of mountain lion tracks following
us in and crossing.
They came back out.
So these things are around and I've got a huge documentation of them all around the
central area of Wisconsin.
So they're here.
They're on the move.
These are real animals.
And I'm just hoping that there isn't any sort of tragic accident before it will be admitted that they actually are here.
Because they're one of these creatures that the authorities do not like to admit is here.
It costs them a lot of money to have to fulfill certain things in the law.
He wants you to jump into ghosts and EVPs as proof.
I have seen ghosts and shockingly enough it was when I was looking for them.
I wrote, I co-authored Weird Wisconsin and authored Weird Michigan with the Barnes & Noble Weird U.S.
series.
So one of the things that I had to do was go to many of the very known, very haunted sites in both states and in each state I saw one ghost in the place where it was supposed to be.
They were both just surprise visits.
The host had no chance to send anything up.
Both times it was in daytime.
Both times I was so shocked that I had a camera in my hands with a strap around my neck and I never got the camera up in time to actually take the picture of a ghost.
It would take me quite a bit of time to tell you both stories.
They are in the Weird Wisconsin and Weird Michigan books.
Okay, you know anything about EVPs?
EVPs scare me even more than mountain lions.
And I've heard some really good ones.
I don't know for sure what they are, but I think there's some credence to the idea that there are things floating in some other Reality, I'm not sure if they're from actual dead people or if they are other entities that are pretending to be dead people.
But what I've heard, and I've heard some really creepy ones from people at different conferences, they're usually really, really frightening and scary, the things that these things are saying.
And if anything ever seemed demonic to me, it's EVP.
Okay.
James on Skype.
Hello there.
You're on the air with Linda Godfrey.
Hello Art and Linda.
I just wondered if Linda had ever heard the story of the Wooly Burger in Ohio.
Central Ohio.
The Wooly Bear?
Wooly Burger.
Burger?
Wooly Burger?
Yeah.
Does that come with fries or?
No, it's the last name of the gentleman that, uh, it's a werewolf story.
Okay.
And, uh, there was a gentleman that, uh, there's a town called Darbydale.
Hmm.
A lot of people will call it a, uh, a, uh, Bigfoot, but it's not because they don't know.
Anyways, the remnants of his home, which is brought from Eastern Europe, uh, you can still see a couple of, uh, uh, pylons that are in the, uh, the creek.
It's called Hell's Branch.
And what ended up happening was a bunch of the people started dying.
Well, they figured it out that it was Willy Burger and they destroyed his home.
So most of the homes along the river have parts of his old castle.
So you're telling me, you're telling me this is a guy named Willy Burger.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
And he transformed into what?
Into a werewolf.
Into a werewolf and killed people.
Yeah, and so he was killed.
They shoved a rock in his mouth, and there's a cemetery called Wooly Burger Cemetery after that.
It's not Willy, it's Wooly.
Wooly, I'm sorry.
What is that near?
Do you mind my asking?
Yeah, it's by the town Darbydale, outside of Columbus, Ohio.
I grew up there, that's why I know this.
Oh, okay.
Near Columbus.
Okay.
I've had a long standing wolfman habitation situation going on not too far from Columbus
and I've found quite a few sightings in Columbus.
And I'll also say that Wisconsin has the same sort of historic background to what they called
the werewolf or we now call werewolves where you have these German immigrants who bring
these cultural tales and cultural beliefs with them and they seem to manifest here as
well as they did there.
It's lycanthropy.
And that's what I'm saying.
Anyways, he still exists.
I have an experience with him that I talk about sometimes, but it's a long story and I'm sure you'd be bored with it.
Please email it to me.
I would love to see it.
No, she's not going to be so bored.
Email it to her.
It will not bore me.
Your email is, again?
lyndagodfrey99 at gmail dot com.
Or you can just go to lyndagodfrey dot com.
Anyways, Belgab Roswells.
God bless.
Thank you.
Yo, Belgab.
OK, let's go here to, I think, Kentucky on the phone.
You're on the air.
Mr. Bell?
Yes.
This is AR from your biggest and most loyal online community into infinity.
My goodness.
Welcome.
Hello.
I got a Bigfoot story from years ago, but I'd rather ask a question.
Okay.
That's okay.
It is?
People talk about why there is no bodies for Bigfoot or the dog men.
That's right.
I consider the thought that possibly they're intelligent enough that they don't leave bodies behind to be found.
They either bury them, hide them, possibly eat them.
I just wonder what the guests thought about that possibility or theory.
Well, I've heard that suggested before and there's another thing too concerning the dogman.
Now let's say you've got a dead Bigfoot.
You find that lying there, this eight, nine foot tall like thing and you know you've got something really weird.
You find a giant dogman of the type that's usually called Indomie and you would probably just say, wow, that's a really weird, kind of weird looking big dead wolf.
You know, you wouldn't think as much of it.
I do believe that these things are seen and may be seen and people don't know what they With the Bigfoot, people do believe, I've often heard it said that they think they probably take them and bury them or just, you know, remove them.
My Native American friends say they go to their world before or as they, you know, if they are going to expire, that's where they go and do it.
And that's why we don't find the bodies from the Bigfoot.
I don't know how to prove either one, but I think, I think, you know, if you're going along with the partly physical, Partly but fully physical, partly but fully otherworldly creature, well then it makes great sense that they would go to some lengths to remove themselves.
And then other people also say... Pardon?
I was going to say, from what I saw, it was purely physical, but this thing was definitely physical, but it was as solid as the dirt I'm sitting in.
Right.
I was going to say, anyone that goes in it... Right.
Anyone that goes into the woods knows you won't find a complete body.
You'll find bones or... Sure.
...shreds of fur.
Sure.
You're not going to find a complete skeleton of anything.
All right.
Especially not apex predators.
You just don't find, you know, dead bears or things like that lying around.
Definitely not.
All right.
We'll squeeze one more in.
Chris on Skype.
Hey, how you doing, Art?
Fine.
All right, so this is a weird question.
My buddy was in Iraq about 10 years ago, something like that.
He always tells a story about, he thinks he saw a werewolf, but this is definitely a female werewolf, right?
How he knows this, it sounds gross, I don't know how to describe it in a better way, but he rescues dogs, and some of them aren't neutered, so they, that time of the month happens, and he said that this werewolf, it had like, the female attributes, it had boobs.
I can say that.
Um, and it also it smelled, it smelled like that time of the month or werewolf.
I don't know how to explain that in the right way.
But he says he knows it was on the side of the road, and they stopped on the side of the road and it crossed like right in front of them.
They were they were in a truck or something.
Yes.
And they got out of the car, and it turned around and looked at them, came back.
I'm saying, or he's saying, three feet away, this thing comes up to him.
And it stinks, like, so bad.
He can't even, you know, he's like, the only thing I could describe is a dirty dog, like, that he would get from a pound.
Listen, our show is ending here, right?
Yeah, but that's... He's a Russian.
Yeah, my question is, what does this smell like?
You described it as a dirty dog.
I said that earlier on the program, too.
A dirty dog in need of a bath.
Bad dog urine.
Almost everybody knows what that smell is like.
Yep.
Exactly.
All right, Linda.
Man, what a great show.
Thank you very much.
You have a website, right?
Yes, lindagodfrey.com.
That's my WordPress blog, and there's a page there with frequently asked questions, my book list, all kinds of things.
All right.
Well, thank you for the great education on things that I'd rather not meet up with, frankly, but it's been a great show.
Thank you.
Oh, it was my pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me.
You have a good night.
Take care.
What an honor to have you on.
All right.
That's it for this night.
And again, you might want to pass the word.
I've found Madman.
He'll be with us for some period of time tomorrow night.
I don't know.
Madman is one of the world's unique individuals.
Madman Markham.
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