Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Sept. 2, 2015 - Art Bell

02:18:53

Art Bell MITD - Peter Davenport UFO Center

Participants

Main voices

40:08

peter davenport

01:24:31

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		high desert in the great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be, wherever you are.
		Welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		A cool name for a program, Midnight in the Desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Mark Bell.
		Good evening.
		Or whatever.
		We have two rules for the show, and they're simple.
		No bad language, and only one call per show, and that's it.
		I would like to do my thank you list very quickly.
		Telos, of course, with a great sound.
		Keith Rowland, my webmaster, Heather Wade, my producers, Stream Guys, LV.net, sales, Pete Eberhardt, of course.
		Tune-In Radio, Vacarius, Leo Ashcraft, Dark Matter News, and again, my wife and my daughter for allowing me the time to play.
		So, I want to note, even though they're a competitor, that something bad has happened.
		Tom Danheiser, the producer over at Coast, I understand, has had a pulmonary embolism.
		And that is very, very serious stuff.
		So I want to wish him prayers and get well soon.
		And I hope it's okay.
		is very serious.
		I want to do, feel free to groan, please.
		I know people groan when I do this, but it's working.
		That's what I want to tell everybody.
		It's working.
		You can call us with your smartphone for free, no matter where in the world you are.
		So I urge you, if you've got a smartphone, and if you don't, what are you waiting for?
		Then put us in.
		And I'm going to tell you right now how to do it.
		Download Skype.
		It is free.
		Skype is free.
		Go to your little candy store, your app store, whatever, and download Skype.
		When you get it, you'll learn about it pretty quickly.
		And as you do, if you want to call us and you want to sound really, really good, and believe me, when you come in by Skype with a decent internet behind you, you sound like a million dollars.
		You sound virtually like you're right here in the studio with me.
		And that gives what you say more authority.
		And you may have noticed lately that people have begun to listen to my never-ending lectures about Skype, and we're starting to get really good-sounding callers.
		So anyway, when you get Skype on your smartphone, it's so simple.
		You go to add a contact, little plus sign, I think it is, in Apple anyway, probably in all of them, little plus sign, and you put in us, M-I-T-D 51.
		If you're in North America, America, or Canada, just put in M-I-T-D, uppercase, lowercase, doesn't matter, M-I-T-D 51.
		And that will add it to your contact list.
		And lo and behold, when you want to call us, you can just hit that.
		And even though we have not connected, it will call us, and you will get through, and you will sound great.
		If you're outside of North America, anywhere else in the world, yes, we have a special Skype set up just for you, and that is M-I-T-D55.
		M-I-T-D, as in Midnight in the Desert, 5-5.
		Add us as a contact.
		Then we'll be in your list.
		You can just hit it when you feel like calling, and you'll come zooming through, and you will sound great.
		All right.
		I've got that out of my system, and now one other thing to get out of my system.
		Since I have returned to this seat and this genre, I have noticed that things have changed and not for the better.
		I was talking to Peter a little a few minutes before the show, and he said, you coined, or at least the modern version of the term, quickening, and it's going on.
		There is so much infighting going on in ufology right now that it's sickening.
		I had Peter Robbins on, what, a week ago, whatever.
		And he kind of went after Colonel Halt, right?
		Well, I guess Colonel Halt has gone after Peter Robbins.
		And so they have a battle going on.
		And much as I know that debates are not a good idea, I want to say here and now the truth.
		I did invite Colonel Halt on to have a debate with Peter Robbins, but he declined.
		And had that occurred, I would have moderated that debate so that it came out right, but Colonel Halt doesn't want to do it.
		You may recall I shut down Peter Robbins pretty hard with the wormhole, death by wormhole, right?
		And I would have done the same with Colonel Halt.
		So here's what I think.
		Number one, having these gentlemen on when they have such a disagreement, and God knows ufology is full of disagreements right now.
		And I think I know why.
		We'll get to that.
		But having these guys on individually to go after each other is a really bad idea.
		And if I am the modern godfather of this, then I want to urge all my fellow, and there are many fellow talk show hosts out there now, don't have these guys on to tear into each other.
		Don't do it.
	It's bad for ufology.
	Ultimately, it's bad for you.
	So it's, I mean, Rendlesham is an incredible affair to talk about, but it's not an incredible affair to have an argument about.
	God knows we have few enough of them.
	We'll be talking about that.
	So ufology has got to close ranks a little bit, in my opinion.
	Stop all the fighting.
	It's even going on between the hosts.
	I've had my share of it.
	It's got to stop.
	So let it stop.
	And if as a listener you hear this crap going on, call them out on it and get it stopped.
	It's not going to serve anything.
	I suppose somebody might have fun listening to somebody tearing into somebody else.
	You know, if you're going to do it, have both on at least, right?
	And moderate it, have it fair and let them go at each other.
	And you might learn something.
	But having them on individually to tear into each other is simply an idea that is so full of you-know-what, that it doesn't deserve addressing.
	So if everybody would please.
	If I do that, I'll sound like Rodney, and I don't want to sound like Rodney.
	But for God's sakes, get along.
	All right, coming up in a moment, another godfather in this business, Peter Davenport, who's been director of the National UFO Reporting Center since 1994.
	Peter has served as the director of investigations for the Washington chapter of the Mutual UFO Network.
	Peter has had an active interest in the UFO phenomenon since early in his boyhood.
	He experienced his own first UFO sighting over St. Louis Municipal Airport in the summer of 54.
	Wow, I would have only been 11.
	He investigated his first UFO case during the summer of 1965 in Exeter, New Hampshire.
	Peter has been witness to several anomalous events, possibly UFO-related, including a very dramatic sighting over Baja, California back in February of 1990, and several nighttime sightings over Washington State during 1992.
	Peter received his undergraduate education at Stanford University in California.
unidentified		So let's take a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then we'll talk with Peter Davenport up next.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		The devil went down to Georgia.
		He was looking for a solar steal.
		He was in a bag, but he was way behind.
		He was willing to make a deal.
		But he came across this young man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot.
		And the devil jumped up on the hipster thumbs and bought you wanna make bad.
		Tonight we'll put all of the things aside The clock strikes 12, and Midnight in the Desert is pounding Package Your Way on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, please direct your fingers against the dial.
		1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is our terrestrial telephone number.
		I have many lines here, so not to worry.
		Name any lines, actually.
		So you'll get through, but not yet.
		Don't call yet.
		Because here comes Peter Davenport from way up in Washington, I believe.
		Hi, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
		How nice to hear your voice again, and what high honor to be invited onto this program.
		I'm delighted to be here tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
		It's a little different animal than, you know, the old, well, I don't want to say broadcast radio, because we are on broadcast radio on several stations.
		But it is a different animal that we've put together here.
		You'll sort of hear that as night wears on.
		But, man, it's great to hear your voice, too.
		It's been a long time.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It has.
		It's been, I think, over a decade since we've done a program together.
		And I'm going to only estimate that's all I can do, but I think we probably did hundreds of programs over the course of a decade or so, maybe a little bit less.
		But we did some really, really interesting programs by my measure.
		The one that stands out in my mind is the night of the Phoenix Lights.
		I was on that, on coast to coast with you.
		You were getting calls.
		I was getting calls.
		We had no idea what had happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're starting to compare notes and we're going, holy mackerel, something big is going on here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It was really big.
		It took us months and years, really, to put the pieces together.
		It was so big and so complex.
		But boy, that was an interesting night to be talking about what had taken place over Phoenix that night.
		We knew something had happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you've done as much radio as I have, you know, so many nights, thousands and thousands of shows, then yes, when something like that happens, you're just part of it.
		And I'm sure it may happen again.
		I want to read you something real quick and get your reaction.
		Well, you know what?
		Before I read you this, I want to get your reaction to what I said about the infighting that's going on.
		You're an old hand, so maybe you can help out here.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yep, you're spot on.
		There's a great deal of infighting going on.
		I've been the target of some of it.
		I don't understand what is happening, but I agree with you.
		It has to stop.
		We've got to start cooperating instead of chewing on one another.
		It doesn't happen with every entity that I deal with.
		For example, I work very comfortably with MUFON.
		Its international director is now Jan Harzan.
		He and I get along fine.
		But there are some people in the field for whom the important thing appears to be to chew on their fellow UFO investigators.
		And I took the brunt of it probably six or eight years ago when I started talking about a phenomenon we'll talk about later in the program, probably the most important development In all of ufology over the last four to eight years, these clusters of red, orange, yellow, amber, and gold lights that are being reported in great numbers.
		When I first started bringing this to the attention of some of the internet-based forums, boy, I was ridiculed roundly.
		And it's part of the reason that although working alone can be lonely and it constitutes a lot of work, I prefer to do it rather than getting involved in an imbroilio or a kerfuffle with other UFO investigators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, good.
		All right.
		Let me read you this, see what you think of it.
		Seth Shostak, this comes from a website that I frequently go to, which I'll come up with in a second.
		Seth Shostak of SETI joins the growing ranks of those disenchanted with the stagnant evidence pool of UFOs and alien visitations, stating that his own research has turned up the surprising conclusion that the bulk of important UFO cases occurred in the first half of the past 76 years since the dawn of the modern UFO era in the 1940s.
		Shostak thinks it's possible our alien visitors are simply done with us and have packed up their probes and left the galaxy.
		What the world needs is another, he says, huge UFO event like Roswell or the Phoenix Lights or even another WOW signal to revive the whole shebang.
		And that comes from theanomalist.com.
		Thank you.
		So reaction, Peter, what do you think?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I just learned of that blog today from Roger Marsh, who's the editor of MUFON's The UFO Journal.
		And I had not heard about Seth's comments, but I think he's way, way off base.
		He obviously has not spent much time on my website, where we now have between 100 and 102,000 reports posted, written reports.
		Of course, I've taken many more of that over the last 21 years during my tenure here at the National UFO Reporting Center.
		But if he would really like to know the truth, I invite him to send me an email and I'll direct him to some of the better reports and recent reports.
		For example, I'd be curious to know whether Dr. Shostak has read the report from the former U.S. astronaut.
		Two years ago, 5th of June, 5th of July, make that, 2013, former astronaut who resides in Athens, Texas, about 70 miles southeast of Dallas, was standing outside with his wife and their adult daughter.
		He was facing west.
		His wife was facing east.
		And his wife said, honey, what's this?
		He wheeled around.
		Bear in mind, Art, that this guy started out his adult life as a fighter pilot.
		He transitioned to an airline pilot.
		As an airline pilot, he applied for the Astronaut Corps.
		He was accepted, had two flights on the space shuttle.
		So this guy knows which end of the airplane is supposed to point forward.
		He wheeled around and was confronted with a view of a red object that just streaked right over his head, directly overhead.
		And he followed it to the west.
		He was so intrigued by it.
		As he was looking to the west, his wife said, here comes another one.
		He wheeled around.
		Here's a second.
		All told, they watched six objects follow the same flight path across their heads.
		I'm curious to know.
		I mentioned this case because I'm curious to know whether Dr. Shostak has read that case or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of other really good ones.
		More than likely not, Peter.
		He, you know, I know the way he feels about ufology and all of that.
		And, you know, it is what it is.
		And being in his position, I guess I kind of understand to some degree.
		But even he's got his own dearth of new stuff.
		I mean, they had this wow signal and nothing since.
		And, you know, whenever he comes on, I hit him pretty hard with that.
		So, you know, what he said, though, I guess bears examination.
		We haven't had big cases lately.
		By the way, that story you just told, did they give the relative size of the objects?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		About the size of a bright planet and bright red, the red of a traffic signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, you know, this new age of drones, Peter, is going to make it hard.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so, Art, because even drones have to have conventional lighting when they fly at night, as agreed to by ICOW, the International Committee on Aerial Organization.
		Yeah, the International Civil Aviation Organization.
		That's what it is.
		And even drones have to have conventional lights on them.
		If they didn't, and somebody bumped into one at high speed, then they've got real trouble on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm talking about the toys.
		You know, I've got a drone.
		I should admit it.
		I've got a drone.
		And I have played and played with it.
		I've had it up higher than I should have.
		I've done things I shouldn't have.
		And listen, Peter, trust me when I tell you this is the truth.
		They are selling kits that you can put together to make your drone light it up like a Christmas tree with LEDs.
		You can make your drone look just like a UFO.
		Sure.
		So there's trouble coming.
		The FAA already knows there's trouble coming with drones.
		I'm referring to the smaller ones, and it's going to begin to be hard to separate some of these reports.
		And it's going to also get hard for aircraft, I might add, that are getting interfered with.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, that's a possibility.
		I've handled a number of cases related to model airplanes, most of all, rather than drones or quadcopters.
		And my experience, Art, has been that they're really not that difficult to sort out, to weed out, separate the wheat from the chaff in those cases, because with a few poignant directed questions to the witnesses, you can usually get to the bottom of it, I've found.
		Now, I may be deluding myself, but I haven't been challenged, I feel, by the drone phenomenon yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's coming.
		I'm telling you, it's coming.
		The FAA is going to regulate them.
		I'm not sure how they're going to regulate them.
		Every time I see a story of another almost drone airliner collision, I cringe because I know that means the FAA is, you know, making more regulation, and they're going to come down hard on us.
		It's a shame.
		Anyway, I guess that'll be a problem.
		We'll have to wait and see.
		So you, anyway, you've been in ufology since you were really young.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many reports this last year, I'm going to specify this last year, have you received?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how does that compare to previous years, Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, a decade ago, a typical number of reports on our website, and any of our listeners can go to our website and just see with his own eyes what I'm talking about.
		A typical number of reports a decade ago was maybe 180 to 250.
		I'm guessing I'm going on memory.
		And we are now dealing with between 500 and 1100.
		So many, say roughly double the reports we were getting a decade ago.
		Now, that can be, obviously, can be the result of many things.
		It can be the result of becoming more accepted by the public, both our organization as well as the phenomenon of UFOs.
		It can be the result of big programs.
		It can be the result of making appearances on programs like this so that people discover that there's a place where they can report a sighting.
		So there could be a lot of reasons for the increase in the volume of reports.
		The part of the story that I'm most interested in is the quality of the reports.
		And a lot of things have been taking place in recent years.
		One is the phenomenon I alluded to earlier about all these clusters of red, orange, and yellow, and amber and gold fireballs.
		In fact, I just updated our website tonight.
		Our trusty webmaster, I think, has gotten all the material up.
		And we have a classic photo that was captured just two nights ago, I believe it was, by a woman who had the presence of mind when she saw a really bizarre display of these lights to grab her camera and get a good high-quality photo.
		But we'll be talking about some of those cases later in the program.
		It is the most unnerving part of ufology to me at this stage is what these objects may be up to.
		What are they doing here?
		And until we have a long-handled butterfly net that allows us to reach up and snag one of these things, I don't think we're going to know what they are.
		We have a number of really high-quality photos, not just from tonight's posting, but from prior postings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, if you have cool pictures up, Peter, please give out your website.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's simply ufocenter.com.
		UFO CEMTER.com.
		Nine letters, one word, and they can go right there.
		And we've got, as I mentioned earlier, about 102,000 reports posted there now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does your organization interact with MUFON, which is sort of the official, I don't know, MUFON is you tell me what MUFON is compared to what you do.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, MUFON is a much larger organization.
		They're a membership-based organization.
		They send out about 3,000 of their journals every month.
		They have more members than that who do not take the journal or they're in households that already receive the journal.
		And they're more involved in research and investigation than I am.
		The National UFO Reporting Center, on the other hand, is principally a conduit of information.
		People who see something need somebody to talk to immediately, and we offer them a place where they can preserve the information surrounding their sighting and where their sighting report will be posted publicly, albeit of course anonymously.
		We never give out personal information or contact information for people who contact us, but that's the principal difference between MUFON and the National UFO Reporting Center.
		MUFON to its credit, and I tend to agree with them to a degree, has proposed that it might be a good idea to combine our efforts.
		But I'm so independent a cuss, and moreover, I see some advantage to having competition between our two organizations that to date I have resisted that attempt to combine efforts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you get a gigantic sighting, Peter, do you then refer people over to at least register it with Move On?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And I've done that in the recent past, to try to get a case investigated while the evidence is still available.
		Evidence dries up very quickly.
		You've got to get people on the ground who are capable, who are experienced, and dedicated.
		And so I often give really dramatic cases to MUFON investigators to have them go out and see what they can find.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Peter Davenport, hold tight.
		Peter Davenport, the National UFO Reporting Center.
		Closely akin, actually, to MUFON.
		I didn't know there was a merger.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
		While Midnight Sweeps Across America, you've found an oasis for the mind.
		To call Midnight in the Desert, please dial 1-952-CALLART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Peter Davenport.
		And since he was very, very young, he has been incredible.
		He has been taking UFO reports, cataloging them, working along with MUFON, actually, in many cases, I guess.
		And it's a hell of a job.
		I know Peter likes it best when you report these things between 2 and 5 in the morning.
		Right, Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Thanks a lot for that, Art.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They can report it to the answering service during those hours.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you know, do you have any device, just as a curiosity, Peter, that, you know, if something did happen, let's say at 3 o'clock in the morning Pacific time, and you started getting 300 calls, you know, your phone was just ringing off the hook.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any way for your phone to alert you, uh-oh, big one?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not that sophisticated.
		I'm not wired for sound very extensively up here, Art.
		It's a pretty simple operation.
		It's one telephone, one computer, one tape recorder, one very dedicated operator and director, and a webmaster, and that's it.
unidentified		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you could conceivably miss the big one until you woke up.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I could indeed.
unidentified		They just have to wait for me to get back to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, you do answer the phone a lot when they come in at reasonable times, and I guess you have even been known to investigate a little bit, right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I have indeed.
		In fact, you have posted on your website an article from the Dairy News.
		Dairy is in New Hampshire.
		That's where I live 50 years ago.
		I graduated from high school in 1965.
		And part of the reason I included that, I didn't share this with Heather when I sent her that file, but part of the reason I elected to share that is tonight's program marks the 50th anniversary of the great incident at Exeter case.
		Very celebrated case.
		There have been books written about it, but it was 50 years ago, right about now, that some of the first reports of a very peculiar disc were flowing into the Exeter Police Department in Exeter, New Hampshire.
		So that's part of the reason I included that.
		I figured people would look at that and say, wait a minute, that's 50 years ago tonight.
		And that, in fact, is the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, excellent.
		And we're going to talk about a bunch of cases here in a moment.
		But one more time, back to Mr. Shostak.
		You know, he is suggesting, and you can't rule out the possibility, that aliens have certainly been observing us.
		And maybe, Peter, they watched us, and they watched us, and they watched us, especially beginning as we exploded an atomic weapon.
		That certainly would make sense to me.
		But as they watched us, they grew to, well, not like us.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I think they've been watching us for a long, long time.
		In my PowerPoint presentation, a couple of the slides that I include are slides of cave paintings.
		Cave paintings that go back thousands of years, 8,000 years in France and Italy, 12,000 or 13,000 years in North Africa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good point.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The question is, and we have to fight our way through all these cases and all this detritus that we collect as UFO investigators, but it's important from time to time to step back from it all and say, what does all of this mean?
		What is the relationship between mankind and, generally speaking, life on the planet Earth and these UFOs?
		And I disagree with Seth Szostak.
		My position is diametrically opposed to his.
		We are being visited according to the data available to me with which I'm intimately familiar.
		It looks to me as though we are being visited daily by UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, understand that if you were to convince Seth of what you're saying, he would have to go turn off his radio receiver and silence all those satellite dishes, and he'd be out of work.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I guess it pays off to be doing both at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly, you wouldn't suggest we would stop listening for them, right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		No, I agree.
		I think the SETI project is very good science, and I would support it too.
		But one thing occurs to me, and you just touched on it.
		They get a lot of their money from the government, or they have in the past.
		A lot of it's from the Paul G. Allen Foundation up in Seattle.
		But a lot of their money comes from the government.
		The government's position is people like me are just crazy.
		There's no such thing as a UFO, and they want the American people to not be thinking about the UFO phenomenon.
		That seems apparent to me.
		And I think Seth and his other staff members at SETI probably recognize that.
		If they start babbling about UFOs, they risk the chance of being unfunded by the U.S. government if, in fact, they're still receiving money from them at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or unfunded from wherever their money comes from.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yep, they might think they would risk being labeled kooks or something like that.
		And later in the program, I'm building up my courage.
		Later in the program, when we start talking about passive radar and my proposal to detect UFOs directly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember you talking about that years ago.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Passive radar.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Two and a half years ago.
		I came up with the idea in January, late January of 1995.
		I've written articles about it.
		I've approached four billionaires.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me stop you.
		Radar folks send out a signal, and that signal hits something and bounces back.
		And we go, oh, that's a plane or that's something, whatever.
		That's the way it works.
		It sends out a signal, bounces back from the metal on the craft, and we see it on the screen.
		So, Peter, explain.
		When you say passive radar, how can that possibly be?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		What the passive means is that the radar I'm discussing does not generate its own transmitted signal.
		It does not have a transmitter.
		What it does is you lay out a pattern, an XY pattern of four antennas separated by 100 meters or so.
		And you connect all four of those antennas to a receiver.
		It doesn't have to be any more sophisticated than the FM receiver in your car.
		From that receiver, you run the four signals coming into those antennas to a computer.
		It has to be a relatively sophisticated computer.
		And what I'm proposing would not have been possible in the hands of the average citizen until the last 10 years or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I still don't get how it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get that the signals from those four receiving antennas go to a computer which does what?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It analyzes the signals.
		And let me describe.
		I live in eastern Washington.
		If I set up a passive radar system and tuned that receiver to a radio station or a TV station over in Seattle on the west side of the Cascade Mountains or the Cascades, under ordinary circumstances, my receiver could not hear that broadcast signal out of Seattle.
		However, if a disc flew down the crest of those Cascade Mountains, it would provide a reflection.
unidentified		It sure would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And we would listen for that reflected signal.
		It would be very weak.
		But you as a ham probably understand this perfectly.
		And in fact, there are some ham operators in Nevada or Eastern California who are bouncing gigahertz signals off the skin of commercial airliners, and they're bouncing their signal over the mountains to other ham radio operators on the west side of those mountains.
		I've been talking about this until I'm blue in the face, Art, but it represents the end of ufology when we can use a passive radar system.
		And my estimate and the estimate of my engineering team is we could cover the entire North American continent, including Mexico, with as few as maybe six to eight listening stations tuned to various different radio or television frequencies and just sit there and wait for anomalous targets.
		Now, people are saying, well, how would you distinguish an airliner hit from a UFO, from a Canadian goose?
		Well, there are usually two stages in radar analysis.
		There's the detection stage, and when you actually detect the object sitting there, and then there is the discrimination phase.
		And it's in the discrimination phase, which can be programmed into the computer to eliminate all those airliners that are at 35,000 feet doing 550 miles an hour.
		You just program them out.
		You don't even look at them.
		Or birds that are, say, 2,000 feet in the air and they're traveling at 45 miles an hour, you ignore them.
		But if you get a hit and track an object that is doing, say, 10,000 miles an hour and it does a right-angle turn instantaneously, you know that's not an airliner.
		You know that's not a Canadian goose.
		Suddenly, you have very, very unambiguous and convincing data in lieu of uncertain eyewitness reports and fuzzy photographs.
		It will change the complexion of ufology dramatically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that you could differentiate sufficiently I've got a story for you here in a moment, but I'm just wondering if you can do that, if you can differentiate what kind of object you're seeing.
		The reason I say this is because, and you had no idea, we have a unique system here in Perump.
		I live on one side of a very, very large mountain, and then there's Las Vegas on the other side.
		And we have a regular operation, as a ham, we have a regular operation that does something that there was, there used to be no communication between Las Vegas and Prump, Peter, by ham radio, except and unless you had an active Radio on top of the mountain because radio signals go until they hit something and then that's it.
		Well, it turns out there is a very unique way to propagate a radio signal over a mountain.
		You hit it very hard at the peak, and the angle at which it goes up is the angle at which it goes down.
		And so using enough power and high-gain antennas, we have a reliable system to talk between Peramp and Las Vegas, and you don't have to go up on top of a mountain to fix the repeater when it breaks.
		It works very, very reliably.
		However, and this is where what you said comes into play, when a plane takes off at McCarran Airport, we hear we're horizontally polarized, and the wings are horizontally polarized, and so we can virtually almost tell you exactly what kind of airplane is taking off from McCarran.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what you're saying is the truth.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, there's part of the story that I didn't touch on that is crucially important for people to understand.
		The reason you need multiple antennas, what I'm talking about is a multi-static passive radar system.
		Multi-static means multi-antennas that are all sitting still.
		And what you can do with that array, now that we have a very, very accurate time constant in the GPS system, is you can measure very, very accurately the precise instant that that reflected signal strikes each of those four or more antennas.
		And you can use that data to triangulate, calculate very rapidly with a good calculator where that signal must have emanated from.
		And if you do that 10 times a second, then you could object, and that's why I say you can calculate the velocity of the object that is reflecting that signal.
		Moreover, given your skill with radios and your experience in that field, you understand what Doppler shift is all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You can also, with the reflected signal, if you have the original signal that was broadcast, you can compare the original signal with the reflected signal, and you can calculate Doppler shift, and that will confirm the velocity in the direction that your target is moving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you proven this in the real world yet?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have not, but the first invention for passive radar was by a British citizen in 1927, and the British Air Traffic Control System, just in June of this year, published an article suggesting that they use, they build a passive radar system to track airliners over the UK to supplement their active radar system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, what we're doing over mountains here is called knife edge refraction.
		It's a very interesting phenomena, but it exhibits in its use not only reliability, but exactly what I just told you.
		So we can actually tell you virtually what kind of aircraft is taking off from McCarron.
		So it does work, folks.
		I would love to see a practical application set up of what you're talking about, Peter, and see if it really works.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've put together an engineering team, and I guess I'm going to share on this program something I've not shared ever before on a broadcast program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I like that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		A year and a half ago, February 2nd of 2014, I sent a letter to Dr. Jill Tarter at SETI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I didn't realize it at the time, but she had been retired just before my email had arrived there.
		And I proposed to her, I thought she was in charge of the technical side of the SETI project, the antennas and so on and so forth, essentially listening for intelligent signals from space.
		What I proposed to SETI is a collaboration between our team at Newfork, and I have a four-man team, engineering team, put together that says, yep, that will work.
		These are people who have designed most of the electronics on every commercial airliner you've ever ridden.
		These are people with tremendous know-how in electronics.
		They know how to control electrons.
		I sent her an email suggesting collaboration between SETI and Newfork.
		And I proposed that we could bet a bottle or a case of our favorite beverage as to who would detect, unambiguously detect alien activity, namely UFOs, SETI with their listening posts or the passive radar system.
		And unfortunately, she had retired.
		She sent me back a very short note.
		I don't know whether it was curt and frosty by intent, but that was my interpretation.
		She said, I have passed your email along to the director of SETI, and he will be in touch with you.
		Well, despite two or three reminder notes to that gentleman, I've not heard back from SETI since.
		Very unfortunate.
		And I will share with your audience, Art, and with you, the fact that I'm considering going to Seth Szostak to make this proposal again, because this is an area of ufology where he should agree with us ufologists wholeheartedly.
		Namely, getting rid of eyewitness accounts, getting rid of those fuzzy photographs that we always get every day that mean nothing to anyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unless since Photoshop.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And set up a system of passive radar To see what we can detect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		You're really on to it, buddy.
		Hold on.
		We're at a break.
		We'll be back.
		Think of it, folks.
		I think I know the answer how to get this going.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Coming to D.U.R.
		At the speed of light in the darkness, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, speed of light with a glitch.
		All right, Peter Davenport is my guest from the National UFO Reporting Center, and very interesting stuff.
		He's talking about passive radar.
		Really a good idea, actually.
		We're going to get into cases here in a moment, so everybody hold tight.
		And I know it's a little bit technical what we're talking about, but it really does bear on what we're talking about.
		And every time we attack a country, right or wrong, what's the first thing we destroy?
		Radar.
		We destroy radar.
		We send in missiles that look for radar signals, home in on them, and blow the hell out of them.
		So when we invade a country like Iraq, we went and killed the radar first so they can't kill us.
		So you know who ought to be interested in passive radar?
		The military.
		That's who.
		What about that idea, Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you entirely.
		In fact, it brings to mind a good friend of mine over in Seattle, James Klotz, who runs coufon.org, C-U-F-O-N.org, one of the better websites for factual content.
		And when he saw my article in the MUFON UFO Journal, he sent me some material that he had obtained through Freedom of Information Act, material from the U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force dating from 1971.
		And in 1971, the concept of passive radar was stamped top secret.
		They didn't want people to realize that they were 40, 45 years ago addressing the advantage of passive radar.
		But it will work.
		It is powerful.
		And people are beginning to awaken to what it can do for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I think your idea is really sound.
		Thank you for presenting it.
		Let's move on.
		For example, in 21 years, what would you say is probably the best, most dramatic, well-documented case that you've handled?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		There's no question in my mind what the answer to that question is, Art, and it is the Phoenix Lights.
		The Phoenix Lights, people refer to it often, but very few people understand the full dimension of just how dramatic that event was that you and I covered the night of it.
		We had witnesses on about an hour after the event had ended.
		It ended at about 10 p.m.
		Phoenix time on Thursday night, the 13th of March, 1997.
		And it took another 12 weeks for the national press to awaken to that case.
		It was June 18th, Wednesday, June 18th, 1997, before any national newspaper covered that incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that in itself was interesting.
		It was like somebody flipped a switch, and we all wondered, where the hell is the press?
		This is gigantic.
		And then this time went by, and like somebody threw a switch, they all went berserk at the same time.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they were criticizing the UFO for not having gotten them the information that would allow them to do articles.
		Absolute nonsense.
		And I know that for a fact, because one of the slides I use in my PowerPoint presentation is my telephone bill for that night and the next day.
		This is now the 14th of March.
		I called the UPI office in Seattle.
		I didn't realize it at the time, but that was just a telephone front, and it shunted calls down to their Los Angeles office.
		I talked to a gentleman whose name was Joe Fossbinder, and I knew him.
		He and I had talked about UFOs a time or two prior to this.
		And I called him and said, Joe, are you aware of what's happened in Phoenix?
		There appears to have been a very, very dramatic event occur there.
		And I had no idea what had really taken place, even at that time.
		It took me many weeks to put the pieces together.
		And he said, no, what's going on, Peter?
		He said, we have breaking news here, and we are not going to have time to deal with that case.
		And I said, what's the breaking news, Joe?
		And he said, well, the most recent polygraph test for Mark Fuhrman has just been released, and that's our leading story today.
		This is after O.J. Simpson had been acquitted.
unidentified		Right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		So that was the breaking news on the 14th of March, 1997.
		But to give our listeners some idea of some of the things they may not be aware of, at about 8.35 p.m., and they can see the slide on your website.
		I shared it with Heather, and I think she's posted it.
		It shows an artist's rendition of what that chevron-shaped object looked like that passed over Camelback Mountain at about 8.35 p.m.
		To give people some idea of how dramatic the Phoenix Lights event was, that object is not less than 7.4 statute miles from tip to tip.
		And if people who are familiar with trigonometry would like to calculate it, it was not less than 8,000 feet above ground level, and it subtended an arc of 135 degrees estimated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, here is what a critic might say, that these were separated objects that were viewed as a single object.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand a lot of eyewitnesses would go nuts when they hear that, but that would be the criticism they'd level at this.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sure there are many skeptics that would like to have a lot of Americans believe that.
		But when that object was being intercepted by two F-15Cs from the north, they had taken off from Luke Air Force Base.
		They hooked around to the north, and they came at that object from the north.
		It suddenly jumped from Camelback Mountain down to a hover state over Sky Harbor Airport, and it jumped so fast, Sue Watson, who's been a guest on your programs, said her eyes could not track it as fast as it was moving.
		It went from a dead stop to a dead stop.
		I don't know what the distance is between Camelback Mountain and Sky Harbor, but I'm going to guess on the order of five to eight miles.
		It traveled that distance in the bat of an eye.
		It was not from this planet, Art.
		And it was not multiple objects.
		Although if multiple objects can all accelerate in formation and jump five to eight miles in less than a second, I am impressed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my recollection is the military said something or another about a few flares for some operation they were doing at the time.
		Right.
		Am I right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Exactly correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So that brings us to the U.S. military.
		I mean, obviously, what happened in Phoenix, you know, was, as you point out, not of this earth.
		So is that still the explanation that we would get from any official source that it was flares?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I don't think any official source aside from former Governor Fife Symington has even talked about it.
		I once actually called the command headquarters for the U.S. Air Force in the Pentagon, and I requested information, and they just laughed at me.
		I wanted to know whether a defense condition 3 had been declared.
		Normally we're on DEF CON 5.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Lowest level of preparedness that our military is on.
		And we have credible reports to the effect that U.S. military forces were elevated.
		They skipped DEF CON 4 altogether.
		They went from DEFCON 5 to DEFCON 3 in one step.
		Luke Air Force Base, and I've played...
		Absolutely.
		I have played on your program before that audio clip of my conversation with that U.S. Air Force airman who was involved in the intercept.
		He was involved in the launch of the F-15s out of Luke Air Force Base.
		And he asserted that the reason that the F-15s were launched, because Luke Air Force Base in 1997 was exclusively an F-16 training base.
		They didn't even have F-15s.
		And I debated or was on a radio program based in Phoenix at the time with a public affairs officer, a young woman from the U.S. Air Force, and she made that point.
		And I said, well, that is true.
		I accept your point.
		However, I said, are you familiar with the Air Force One and Air Force II protection group that had aircraft on your base that night, the night of the Phoenix lights, at which point she could hear her mother's voice calling her away from the phone?
		I'm speaking facetiously, of course, but she refused to continue in that conversation on a live radio program because it was an issue that she couldn't talk about.
		When the president or vice president or any dignitary flies, they are protected as aggressively when they're in the air as they are when they're on the ground.
		And the way they're protected is with not just one or two aircraft, but with a fleet of aircraft that includes an AWACS to be able to reach out 500 or 1,000 miles to look for any bogeys or bad guys.
		And in addition, it doesn't do any good to have AWACS if you don't have fighter jets that are heavily armed, prepared to bring something down if it gets anywhere close to the president's aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		And we rarely launch F-15s or 16s to go see about flares, right?
		I mean, it is one military.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And I have my read of the events is the reason Luke Air Force Base scrambled the F-15s is because they were on hot pads, fueled, armed, ready to go, because they were part of the President's Air Force One protection group.
		And they have to be ready 24 hours a day to launch.
		If the President gets a sudden hankering for a Big Mac, they have to be in the air within minutes prepared to rendezvous with Air Force One when it takes off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about freedom of information requests regarding this event and the response to it, Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think Leslie Kane has been the leader in that.
		At least she is the one, almost an act of heroism.
		She did some excellent investigation, but she is the one who, in the spring of 2007, got former Governor Fife Symington to admit that he had seen some of those objects over Phoenix the night of the event, and he had voluntarily elected not to talk about it for a decade.
		Now, that fact, my suspicion is he, Governor Symington, was prevailed upon that night not to say anything about that event.
		And indeed, that's what he did.
		It was he who had one of his staff members march out.
		This was on Friday, the 20th of June.
		He had one of his staff members in a rubber-ducky alien suit walk out on stage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And the journalists were, I'm told, furious at him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, they weren't the only ones.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Boy, I was seeing red for days after that.
		Here we had the most dramatic case that any one of us knew about.
		And by June 20th, after the March 13th event, we knew pretty well that something of tremendous consequence happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had happened, yes.
		I agree with you.
		And what accounts for the press silence for so long?
		And then as a switch was thrown, all of them, all of the big networks, all of the magazines suddenly went, oh my God, this was gigantic, and there was such a delay.
		And then suddenly we had all this coverage.
		Any idea what accounts for that?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And I think the American press owes an apology to the American people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unlikely.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Because they have dropped the ball on the UFO phenomenon.
		And if they are listening to you and me talk here tonight and they disagree with my statement, I invite them to go to my website and start reading cases.
		And they will quickly see that not all of the people who submit those reports, in fact, relatively few of them are less than serious-minded.
		Most of the reports are ones that I have filtered personally.
		And they're from good, solid sources of information.
		Police officers, state patrol officers, military officers, military in general, doesn't matter what their rank is, they are almost universally reliable, I find.
		And pilots, commercial pilots, and the astronaut that I alluded to earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pilots are a little shy.
		If the U.S. government knows about all of this, and how can they not, then why are they handling it the way they are?
		Does this mean to you that not only do they know what it is, but they've had interaction with it, and either they're not concerned or they view this as a national security threat about which they can do nothing and don't want to look weak in front of the American people with this big, mighty military of ours.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It could be any or all of those, Art, but it leads us to what I consider to be the darkest side of ufology.
		And that is the possibility that there is some kind of collusion between our government or major governments and one or more alien species.
		Now, before people pick themselves up off the floor, let me explain a little bit.
		I look at what the U.S. government is doing now, in my opinion, to the American people instead of for the American people in many respects.
		And I am concerned.
		They seem to be making no effort, for example, to rein in the debt.
		$18 trillion in debt.
		On top of that, they're making serious inroads into civil liberties.
		On the 31st of December 2011, President Obama signed a bill that had been passed by a Republican majority that suspended the posse comitatus laws that prevent you and me from being arrested by American military.
		Now, what I'm concerned about, everybody's talking about disclosure and the landing, and they always refer to something in the future.
		I sit up here not just collecting reports, but spending two shifts a day, seven days a week, trying to figure out what these creatures are doing here.
		And what worries me is that the landing did take place.
		It was done very quietly, unbeknownst to most people.
		And they are now somehow, some way, in a fashion that I cannot see, manipulating events on this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it.
unidentified		Hold it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, hold it right there.
		It doesn't get very much more dramatic than that, does it?
		They have landed.
		Contact has been made.
		They are now manipulating events on our planet.
		My goodness.
		Peter Davenport and Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		Don't move.
		I've been to a prayer of prayer.
		Want to take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest?
		This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, dial 1-952-CAL ART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Consider.
		Peter said they've already landed and they're manipulating events on our planet.
		Well, if they're doing that, they're damn disorganized, is what I would say.
		Our planet is a mess right now.
		And certainly, our American political system is a mess.
		I don't want to get into all of that, but maybe they are.
		Maybe they're manipulating the mess toward an end.
		Who knows?
		But you really think that could be the case, Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, Art.
		And in closing on this point, I would like to emphasize, lest I be mistaken for some kind of madman, I emphasize that I have no proof of what I just said.
		I don't even have evidence.
		What I'm basing that statement on is instinct.
		I spend every day of the week trying to figure out what these aliens are doing here.
		And I'm convinced they're here on a regular basis, as I've already revealed in this program.
		But I look at, for example, some of these ghastly acts of violence, they've increased frequently.
		What better way could there be of influencing public attitude towards these events than by doing just a few of them and getting people scared?
		People know megalomaniacs like Stalin realized what you can do to people if you can scare them.
		You can do anything with them.
		I think our government and the disinformation units that no doubt exist there realize the same thing.
		I'm talking about a very small influence which could magnify its effect on the American public or the entire world's population for that matter just by manipulating a few events here and there.
		In theory, it is possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In theory, Peter, we already know that the American people, for the most part, are more than willing to trade their privacy for perceived safety.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's already a done deal.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm afraid it is.
		And I've written my member of Congress on this point a long epistle urging her to initiate an effort to stop funding of the NSA facility in Utah that's sweeping up every electronic emission in the country.
		The government, if you read the 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, you quickly realize that the U.S. government does not have the authority to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, of course not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's mind control, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's been applied very carefully over a very long period of time because when you and I were young, Peter, people would have taken up arms based on what's going on right now.
		Today, we accept it.
		We look at pictures of guys dressed in black cutting off heads, and we go, oh yeah, okay.
		I mean, that's kind of what it comes down to.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And some of them actually are apologetic for those bad guys.
		I don't understand it.
		The American people, in my opinion, are going to have to wake up.
		They're going to have to get smart.
		They're going to have to read the Constitution and discuss it so they understand what it says, what it does, what our government is supposed to do.
		There are only 14 things, our constitutional specialists argue, only 14 things that the federal government is permitted to do.
		The rest of it is left up to the states or the people.
		That's what the Constitution says.
		But it appears to me that our government has completely ignored those strictures on what the U.S. government is allowed to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we've allowed them to do it.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, there is one little, you might consider it a ray of hope.
		God forbid I'd mention politics, but if you look at this amazing thing going on with Trump, I think that what it says, and I really thought hard about this before I said it, is that the American people are so angry, they are so fed up, that they're ready to virtually burn it all down politically.
		And that's what I think accounts for the, even if it doesn't last, you never know, it may or may not, but the interest in Trump, who is so plain spoken, so non-political in a sense, that people are just grasping it, Peter, and I think that's what we're looking at.
		I could be wrong.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They're desperate the way the German people were desperate for a leader in the early 1930s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, comparison, I'll tell you.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		To put things back on track.
		I know you probably try to avoid politics, but the way we got into this is because ufology is cheek by jowl with politics.
		These people in Washington are lying to the American people.
		Here's an example, Art.
		President Bill Clinton, were you aware, I think I probably revealed this on one of your earlier programs a decade or more than that ago.
		Bill Clinton, on the night of the Phoenix Lights event, was staying at the home of Greg Norman, the Australian professional golfer.
		He has a home down in Florida.
		I think it's in, oh, I think it might be in Miami, but I'm not sure.
		That night of the Phoenix Lights event, and within seconds or minutes of the U.S. Air Force intercepting that object over Camelback Mountain, over the home of Sue Watson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're short on time.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The president injured his knee allegedly and was spirited back to Washington, D.C. very quickly to undergo surgery.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I suspect he was injured as a direct or indirect result of the Phoenix lights.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold tight, Peter.
		Peter Davenport is my guest, and we are rocking tonight.
unidentified		My love by the wind, thrown down in a spill, I can't do that.
		Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nigh.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Peter has made some incredible statements on the show this night.
		Some really, really incredible statements.
		Not the least of which is that they may have already landed and may be controlling events on the planet now.
		I mean, that's a pretty wild statement.
		Peter, I know we've got some recordings to get through, and so why don't we turn to that?
		Why don't we turn to some of the recent things that you've caught?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Boy, I scroll through all of the interesting cases that have come into the National UFO Reporting Center since you and I last did a program, and I think it numbers in the hundreds the really good cases, good cases from seemingly reliable sources of information.
		But I sent you a few audio clips that I understand we have available.
		I'd like to set it up.
		I thought towards the end of this program, people might get a little tired of listening to me just blather on endlessly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, this is not blathering, but not even close.
		I mean, what we're talking about, what we've traded for our perceived safety, and I use that word very heavily, perceived, we're not any safer because everything's being listened to.
		Anyway, it'll just get me angry if I get into it.
		I know.
		It is so unconstitutional it reeks.
		Anyway, let's move on to some of what you did capture.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is an interesting case.
		And when I make a public presentation, this case I invariably include because it was so, so dramatic.
		And not just dramatic, but multiple seemingly credible witnesses and first-class video taken by a television news team up near Hamilton, Canada.
		It's the most dramatic UFO video I've ever seen.
		I play it, I think, every time I make a public presentation.
		But this is what happened.
		At 40 minutes past midnight on a Friday morning, this is the 25th of August, 1995.
		So just over 20 years ago, but really doesn't matter.
		It's as dramatic today as it was 20 years ago when it occurred.
		An object slashed down across Ontario, Canada.
		Apparently it covered, it crossed Lake Erie.
		It passed into northwestern Pennsylvania near the city of Erie.
		And within five minutes of that event, people were calling the National UFO Reporting Center.
		The first audio clip I would like to play is from a young woman in Adamsville, Pennsylvania.
		She called about five minutes after this object had passed over her head, over her mother's head.
		She had just pulled in her mother's driveway to drop her off.
		Again, 40 minutes past midnight on a Friday.
		Let's just play that audio clip, and then I'll set up the second one, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is entitled Adamsville.
unidentified		And the entire sky turned really light color blue.
		So all of a sudden, this big white ball of white light, and behind it was like this orange flame stuff.
		And it just shot across the sky like really fast.
		And then all of a sudden it disappeared.
		Okay.
		Like it kind of like that up the entire sky.
		Just happened like five minutes ago.
		So it was like, it was like 1240 our time.
		Mom says about 10 seconds.
		It seemed to go really fast, but yet it was going from north to south.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		North to south.
		That was the first call I received while I was talking to this young woman in Adamsville.
		A second call came in.
		And I asked the gentleman if he would hold for a moment, and he said he would, but he'd just seen something very dramatic.
		He's about, I estimate, approximately 100 miles to the west of the ground track of that object that this young woman just described to us.
		He was looking to the east across Cleveland, Ohio, and what he saw streak from his left to right, north to south, was so bright and it was flickering so brightly that he thought the nuclear power plant on the east side of Cleveland had gone critical and blown up.
		And I invite our audience to listen to the tremulo in his voice.
		He was emotionally upset by what he had just seen about seven minutes earlier.
		Let's go to the second clip from Cleveland, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so we're clear.
		The first clip described is now seen by the second witness in Cleveland.
		Is that correct?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		He was watching it while this young woman 45 minutes ago, I saw what looked like a nuclear explosion in the sky.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		I mean, it lit up the whole neighborhood.
		More than one flash.
		Okay.
		Like three, maybe four.
		But the size of it, the mass of it was so great that it was, you know, it was blinding.
		And it was, I thought for sure that it was a nuclear bomb.
		Yes.
		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So sorry, I cut you off at the beginning there by starting that, but there it was.
		So that quick.
		A second call from Cleveland, and there you go.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So he was looking at it in the eastern sky from his vantage point.
		It was 100 miles away from me, Mark, and he still thought it was so bright that he thought it was a nuclear explosion that just gone Off.
		At the same time, and this is just an aside, this doesn't involve our next audio clip, but there were two couples returning from dinner very near the so-called tri-states area, Connecticut, New York, and New Jersey.
		They were driving home, they were driving to the west.
		The man who was driving was a PhD in physics, majoring in astronomy.
		So he's a pretty good observer of the night sky.
		And they all saw that object going from there right to left, descending at about a 10-degree angle, he estimated.
		I include his report in my slide presentation on this case.
		But the next audio clip I would like to have played is from Niles, Ohio.
		That's up near Cleveland.
		And this recording was made about three years after the event.
		A woman called me, and she said, have you had any dramatic reports from the northwestern Pennsylvania area?
		I knew immediately, I thought, what she was talking about.
		I asked her for the exact date, and she came very close to August 25th, 1995.
		Let's go and listen to what she has to say about what she and her husband saw that very night and at the same time of the other events.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here we go.
		Listen carefully, everybody.
		It's coming.
unidentified		Okay.
		I saw this bright light coming toward our home.
		And everything started to turn blue in our bedroom.
		And all the area, all our backyard, and all the neighborhood was all blue.
		And I jumped up and I thought, oh, I don't know what to do.
		I was afraid that it was going to crash into us.
		But it ended up, like, in the front was four or five windows and very bright lights.
		And I thought probably someone was looking out the windows.
		And it was a blue, green, and like a great, big, round spaceship.
		Just a shaped like a hamburger, you know.
		And it was blue and green.
		And I think there was some orange on the back of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how long did you watch it, do you estimate?
unidentified		I probably watched it for about maybe five minutes.
		Then I jumped up and I went to the window and I said to my husband, oh, something's happening.
		You know, all the backyard is blue.
		The treetops are blue.
		The drapes are blue.
		He was blue.
		Everything was blue.
		Beautiful blue-green.
		You know, they were talking about a meteorite, but it definitely was not a meteorite.
		Because I moved away because I was kind of frightened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Five minutes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever heard of a meteor that hovered over your backyard for five minutes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Never, never.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The reason I'm inclined to believe this woman's report is that that object continued down south.
		It stopped allegedly, reportedly, near a town called Breezewood, Pennsylvania.
		It's right on the Pennsylvania Turnpike that runs east and west across the southern tier of Pennsylvania.
		And something very similar to what this woman just described was seen and reported by a professional race car driver.
		He was on his way from the Washington, D.C. area out to Ohio for a weekend auto rally.
		And as he was driving to the west on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, suddenly the valley he was in lit up like it was high noon in Needles, California on the 4th of July.
		He could see 10 or 20 miles.
		And it was a blue, pulsing, flickering light.
		It pulsed, he believed, six times, and then it changed to a green color and pulsed twice and then it simply disappeared.
		So he, in my opinion, he tended to corroborate the third of the three audio clips we just said because he reported something distinctly similar to what that woman reported.
		And the object was hovering off to his left to the south side of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
		It was hovering.
		It was like a blue ball of light and it had a black band around its equator and it had a black circle at what we would call the south end or the bottom of that blue craft.
		It was a tremendously dramatic event seen by many.
		Here's where it gets very interesting, Art.
		That race car driver called me.
		This is on Monday or Tuesday after the Friday event.
		And he told me what he had experienced.
		I tape recorded the whole conversation, so I am in a position to be able to support my claims here.
		After that first conversation that lasted maybe 10 or 15 minutes, he called me back a few minutes later and he said, by the way, Peter, there's something very strange about this event.
		He said, for the last several days, I have been having flashes in my mind of alien heads with almond-shaped eyes.
		Now let me explain the significance of that, if I may.
		I asked this gentleman, his name was Monty.
		I asked this gentleman how fast he was going on the interstate, and he said 87 miles an hour.
		And I said, how in heaven's name did you go that fast with your race car in a trailer behind your vehicle and not get a ticket?
		And he said, well, that's interesting, Peter, because just down the highway from where I saw this object, there was a major barn fire in progress.
		And he said, all of the emergency vehicles were responding to that fire, so they were off the turnpike.
		And we have other reports that as that object streaked over Ontario, fires just broke out spontaneously in the wheat fields beneath it.
		I cannot confirm That fact.
		Unfortunately, I was not able to investigate this to the degree that I would like to investigate a dramatic event like this, but it was profoundly interesting and profoundly dramatic.
		And again, this object was captured by a Canadian television news team.
		And I got, thanks to Amy A. Baer, who's a UFO investigator down in Texas, I will remain indebted to this young woman for the remainder of my life.
		She called me in 1998, and she asked me the same question that this woman in the third audio clip asked me.
		Have you ever had a report from Northeastern Pennsylvania?
		And I said, well, yeah, Amy, I think I know exactly the one you're talking about.
		And she said, what do you think of the video?
		Now, again, this is October of 98.
		I almost jumped out of my seat and I said, what video?
		And she said, it was played on Texas television at about 2 o'clock in the morning.
		They built it up big.
		And I managed to get a copy of it off the television broadcast.
		And I said, Amy, what do I have to do to get a copy of that video?
		She said, Peter, I'll send it to you.
		She express-mailed it to me, and I played it at the 1999 UFO Symposium in Laughlin, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter, what do we need to do to see the video?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		To do what again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we need to do to see that video?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Oh, just come to any of my presentations.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I've played it, I'm sure, dozens and dozens of times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but you don't have it on a website.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I don't have it on a website.
		At one time, I did.
		But the problem is that I do not have the copyright to this video.
		That is a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		It was Channel 4 in Windsor, Ontario.
		And here's an interesting codicle to what I've just described about this incident art.
		Peter Jennings from ABC News did a special.
		They started it in May of 2004.
		I met with them that month out here in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was in that special.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I remember.
		And I worked with them from May of 2004 to February of 2005, just before it was aired.
		I think it was aired on February 25th, 2005.
		And I showed them that video, and I said, here is the best video I can offer you.
		It's the best, I believe, I've ever seen.
		I recommend you incorporate it in your broadcast, in your two-hour special.
		And for some reason, they did not.
		I don't know exactly why not.
		My impression is that they said they had tried to get a copy of it, and it was impossible to do because the television station whose news team had captured it had been taken over, had been purchased by another news station.
		And they were not going to allow that video to be released.
		That is very odd.
		It is odd.
		I've played that video as recently as May of this year down at the McMinnville, Oregon UFO Festival.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was the last special that Peter Jennings did before he passed.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Contracted lung cancer and was gone within months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite quickly, yes, indeed.
		Yes, I was certainly in that.
		Fairly, in fact, at the beginning, I think, if I recall correctly.
		So that's really something to see.
		I guess if you get to go to a conference and Peter is there, you've got a chance of seeing it.
		I'm sorry we can't see it on the web.
		And I wish that those people at that TV station could be talked into releasing it.
		Eventually, I suppose it'll become public domain someday.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I presume.
		I don't know what the laws dictate on that, but it is really dramatic, sighting material.
		And the interesting thing about the video is that as that object passes over Ontario, Canada, you can see a very subtle object that streaks from ground level up and appears to merge with the object in the video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Merge.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Merge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In these 21 years that you've been doing all this, have you ever been contacted by the U.S. government in any form?
		And if so, what did they say?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		An emphatic yes to your question.
		Good question.
		We are contacted most frequently by the Federal Aviation Administration.
		And they direct citizens and direct pilots to our center who believe that they've seen something or encountered something very unusual.
		And I am deeply, deeply indebted to the Federal Aviation Administration for their doing this, because some of the best reports we can get, in theory, are from commercial pilots who see these things.
		And a commercial pilot who sees one of these objects and is willing to report it, as you suggested earlier in the program, is a rare pilot indeed, but they're becoming much more frequent.
		So we are contacted by them.
		We're contacted by the National Weather Service.
		We're contacted by military facilities.
		And I've been contacted by both the FBI and the CIA who had interest in some of my work.
		And in fact, oh, just about three years ago, there was a newspaper article published in Seattle, the Seattle Weekly.
unidentified		Yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And for that article, I contacted the special agents with whom I had met on the East Coast, who had contacted me on April 22nd, 1997.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm sorry to break you off, but I'm going to have to do it.
		We'll come back and we'll talk about contacts from the FBI and the CIA.
		Really, the CIA contacted Peter Davenport.
unidentified		Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rocket Through the Night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		The less I say, the more my work gets done.
		Because I live and breathe, and still I tell me a freedom.
		It's not radio, but it is what's next, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network, Midnight in the Desert, with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here I am.
		Peter Davenport is here.
		He was saying he's been visited by both FBI and CIA.
		And I'm really curious about the CIA.
		Why would they come to the National UFO Reporting Center?
		Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's an interesting story.
		And the direct answer is because I had been invited to speak for the first time to speak at the MUFON Symposium, the annual MUFON Symposium in July of 2004, held in Denver that year.
		John Schusler was the international director of MUFON at the time.
		In December of 2003, John had called me up.
		He said, Peter, we've never had you at a MUFON symposium.
		I'd like to extend an invitation.
		I was thrilled.
		So I ruminated on this for a bit and considered what I wanted to talk about, whether I just wanted to talk about cases or if I wanted to talk about something of greater consequence than that.
		And I settled on passive radar.
		I said, I'm going to break ufology wide open with my proposal to build a system that would allow us to detect UFOs directly without intervening eyewitnesses.
		Well, I wrote that paper, a 16-page paper.
		It's available on the homepage of our website, ufocenter.com.
		It's been there for since July of 2004.
		So what's that make it, 11 years?
		And I hardly ever get a comment about it.
		But I sent my paper to John Schusler, and MUFON posted that paper on their website on the 6th of July 2004.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for them.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		They do some very, very good work, in my opinion.
		Before that day was over, I had received a call from a senior officer at the CIA.
		He said, Peter, my name is such and such.
		He said, I'm a Ph.D. in physics.
		He said, a retired colleague of mine from the CIA just sent me a synopsis, the abstract of your paper, a one-paragraph summary of my proposal for building a passive radar system.
		He said, I am calling you for two reasons.
		Number one, to congratulate you on your proposal.
		He said, number two, to tell you that if you build the system that you describe in your paper, you will be successful in answering the question of whether UFOs are real or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		He did not say, and this is a fine point.
		This guy is a very, very capable guy.
		He's very well known to the UFO community.
		He's now retired from the CIA.
		Early on, when he was introducing himself, he said, to give you some idea of how senior I am, Peter, he said, I am the person who gives President at that time in 2004, President Bush, his 6.30 morning summary report every morning.
		So he's a pretty trusted official in the CIA, again, PhD in physics and astronomy.
		And he said, your system will work.
		He did not say that you will detect UFOs because I suspect that that would have had him violating a secrecy agreement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		He said, you will answer the question of whether UFOs are real or not.
		He didn't say they exist.
		He said, the system would do the job for me.
		So that was my experience with the CIA.
		My meeting with the FBI took place on, I think it was May 9th, 1997.
		They were very interested in the Phoenix Lights event.
		And you may remember, about a week after the Phoenix Lights event, a U.S. Air Force pilot went missing.
		His name was Captain Craig Button.
		He flew A-10s out of Davis-Monthan Air Force Base near Tucson.
		And about the 3rd or 4th of April, I've forgotten the exact date, he took off.
		He was an instructor pilot.
		He had two students flying with him in a formation of three, I believe it was, three A-10 Warthogs.
		They took off, and allegedly, Captain Button's airplane, as they were flying to the west to a bombing run at the Gila Bend firing range, the Merriam-Goldwater Gila Bend firing range, Captain Button's plane peeled off and disappeared.
		Flying to the north, they believe.
		But I'm not sure we have any idea for sure what direction that plane was going.
		Did you realize, Art, that they have never found that plane?
		They've never found the bombs, full bomb load, live bombs on that plane, and they've never found the pilot.
		Just disappeared.
		This is about, oh, well, it sounds like it's about two to three weeks after the Phoenix Lights event.
		Very close.
		In fact, in about the same airspace where Those objects during the Phoenix lights event were seen to fly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall the incident.
		I recall the time.
		I recall everything about it, including the search that brought up nothing.
		And I think there was some loose talk about suicide, right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there were a lot of rumors, a lot of partial information circulating.
		I frankly have no idea what happened there.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to jump subjects.
		Joy in Santa Cruz is right.
		She, you know, I get these computer messages through the wormhole.
		She says, wait, what?
		Clinton's injured knee was caused by the Phoenix lights while he was in Florida.
		Please ask Peter to explain this.
		I'm totally confused.
		I remember we broke off at that point.
		Never explained it.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I left our audience hanging at the break, and I apologize for that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		But let me put the pieces together in the order in which I see them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The Phoenix Lights event occurred.
		It was an immense event.
		At about 8.20 p.m., just about 20 minutes after the event had begun, Luke Air Force Base allegedly launched two F-15s.
		They circled around to the west and to the north.
		They intercepted that object hovering over Camelback Mountain.
		The object suddenly streaked away from them.
		The F-15s returned to Luke Air Force Base.
		The lead pilot, he's a lieutenant colonel in the Maryland Air National Guard, now retired.
		When he returned to Luke Air Force Base, he was physically unable to get out of his aircraft.
		He could not get out of his cockpit, possibly unable to even raise the canopy.
		His ground crew had to do that for him.
		How that man managed to get that aircraft back on the ground safely, I don't know.
		But at about that time, during the intercept at 8.35 p.m. was the approximate time, is almost exactly the same time that allegedly U.S. military forces were raised to DEF CON 3 from DEF CON 5.
		That's one step short of global warfare.
		And it was almost exactly to the minute, if not the second, that President Clinton allegedly injured his knee while he was overnighting at the home of Greg Norman.
		The question, that's a lot of coincidence for me to accept, all occurring within seconds or minutes.
		My suspicion is that a DEF CON 3 was declared, and I have that, in my opinion, confirmed from a general officer who contacted me through an attorney as a cutout for him to protect his career.
		A general officer confirmed that a DEF CON 3 had been declared during the Phoenix lights, and he knew fully well the dramatic nature of the Phoenix lights.
		I presume when a DEF CON 3 is declared, that somebody has the presence of mind to pick up a telephone and let the commander-in-chief know about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But of course, yes.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And my suspicion is either President Clinton was injured, and it was because he was being raced through a darkened house where he'd never been before, and he tripped on a stair, or he caught his knee on a new post, or something like that, if in fact he was injured.
		Alternatively, he may not have been injured at all.
		This was all a ruse created by the White House in order to keep the journalists off putting two and two together, trying to link the sudden movement of the President of the United States at exactly the same time that the U.S. Air Force had declared a DEF CON 3 in response to the Phoenix Lights event.
		And if anybody would like to see evidence, I was born in Missouri 67 years ago.
		The show-me state, I like evidence as a result of my birthright.
		If people would like evidence as to what I've just said, I direct them to the Saturday, March 15th, 1997 issue of the New York Times.
		There's a nice big photograph of President Clinton lying in a hospital bed with his wife sitting next to his bed, and he was hospitalized allegedly, unless that too is part of the ruse, part of the deception.
		But I don't think the government wants us to even be thinking about the fact that President Clinton clearly, unambiguously, I would argue, knew about that intercept that had occurred just minutes before he was moved from Greg Norman's house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, President Clinton has been diagnosed now with cancer of the brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's moved to his brain.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Carter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Carter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Carter, I'm sorry.
		Carter, of course.
		Pencroft Clinton.
		So anyway, you think that he stumbled over something or was dragged somewhere and injured himself that way at the notification point or so of that incident.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Let me give our audience a little tidbit that they can do on their own to try to confirm or repudiate what I've just said.
		The issue of Newsweek that was published after Vice President Cheney injured his hunting partner, I think down in Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I remember that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Injured him with a 28-gauge, shot him in the face.
		Well, in the article in Newsweek that addresses that, they talk about how President Bush and Vice President Cheney were moved by the Secret Service on the day of the 9-11 attacks.
		And both of them protested, according to that article, protested how they had been handled on the day of those attacks.
		Apparently, Vice President Cheney had been picked up like a telephone pole by two or more Secret Service agents and had been raced to a waiting vehicle.
		And he didn't like being handled that way.
		And I presume they did something similar to President Bush.
		And that tells us that in times of crisis, the Secret Service goes to extreme measures to race a Commander-in-Chief to a waiting vehicle to get him moved to a military safe area.
		So I think we have some evidence, maybe not proof, but some evidence as to how President Clinton might have been handled and why he might have been injured as a result of his evacuation to a military safe area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I've got President Carner on the mind because of that.
		Anyway, yeah, Clinton.
		Well, I remember the report of that injury, and it was odd at the time.
		Everybody thought it was odd at the time.
		Now, the next question I'm going to ask you, a lot of younger listeners don't know about this, but there is no way, in my mind, that the United States government cannot be more than fully aware of the threat or potential threat to national security by these objects.
		And there was a time, and this is a true story, you're about to hear Peter tell it, of objects hovering over missile silos here in the West, and then those missile silos beginning to shut down.
		Now, that really happened, right, Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the evidence is very good.
		It's been thoroughly and carefully investigated by Robert Salas.
		I commend him for excellent work by Jim Klotz and by others.
		Robert Hastings has investigated this and written about it in his book, UFOs and Nukes.
		There's no doubt in my mind, but what in, I think it was the spring of 1967, a whole wing of aircraft was incapacitated in a fashion that to this day nobody understands.
		And Boeing investigated it.
		I'm sure they sent a high-level team of investigators to figure out why some of their missiles or the missile launching facilities that they had had a hand in designing and building had just gone dark, all of them, all at once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		In an instant.
		It would be very, very unsettling.
		And so I'm satisfied that that was a real event and it's been investigated quite capably by the people who've looked into it.
		I have not.
		I only know of it and I've attended lectures where they presented their material.
		But in my opinion, the material looks very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have never seen any resolution.
		I believe that they, all I ever heard, Peter, was that they never, they tore everything apart.
		They never found a thing wrong.
		Now, maybe that's wrong, but that's what I heard.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They left everything in place is my understanding, too.
		You're exactly correct, based on the information available to me.
		I've talked to Jim Klotz in Seattle about this often.
unidentified		Very, very capable UFO researcher.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And he is satisfied that their investigation of it, their collection of documents through Freedom of Information Act is solid, and I tend to agree with him.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		If Jim Klotz says it, and Robert Salas says it and Robert Hastings says it, I'm satisfied that it's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So at that point, it seems to me, Peter, there is no way, unless, as you have pointed out earlier, they have made a landing, there is some sort of understanding or agreement going on, or they're manipulating things as they go, that that could not be regarded as a severe threat to national security.
		I mean, really severe.
		And the fact that they haven't, or that we don't know about it, I guess that could be it.
		They have and we don't know about it.
unidentified		Or you're right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I have at least tacitly accused or suggested that our government could be complicit in all of this, but there's an alternative that I recognize, Art, that somewhat takes them off the hook, and that is the possibility that they could be being blackmailed by one or more species of aliens.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Now, what I'm talking about is they would like things done on this planet the way they want them done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And they would go to a government and say, we would like such and such done, and if it isn't done, let us show you what we're prepared to do, essentially blackmailing the government.
		We could, for example, make an airplane disappear mysteriously or cause an earthquake at a preselected time or something along those lines.
		My imagination is running wild here, but when I look at, for example, MH370 and its disappearance a year and a half ago, March of 2014, this has appeared on my radar.
		That plane simply disappeared, and this recent flapperon that they found in the Indian Ocean...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they found the flaperon, right?
		It went to, I believe, France.
		Now, it was not reported by CNN directly, but if you're one of those people who watch the crawl down below where some of the real news is reported while they talk about other stuff.
		It was reported, Peter, that they are unable to identify that flaperon as coming from MH370.
		Had you heard that?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have.
		And I don't know what the correct answer to that is, Art.
		I just don't know.
		I don't have the information available to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just can't be, Peter.
		How could they not identify it?
		For one thing, a 777 has never crashed into the ocean before.
		So it almost has to be that.
		Have they not opened it and looked at the numbers?
		I mean, even when it was still on land, they were looking, there were cameras zooming in on the numbers.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And then there's an alternative explanation, Art, and that is the possibility that that flaperon was planted by disinformation agents.
		And I have no evidence.
		It's just something I allow for.
		I think our governments are lying to us, lying through their teeth to us in many respects.
		With respect to the economy, with respect to the Federal Reserve, with respect to the financial markets, they're just lying to us.
		They're trying to keep a very bad situation from worsening dramatically.
		And when it comes apart, it's going to be like it's spring-loaded, I suspect.
		This is my bias.
		This is my interpretation of future events as they could happen.
		So they probably are willing to go to that extent to build or obtain a flaperon, even go so far as to put the proper numbers on it so people will say, well, yes, it crashed in the ocean and that's that, and have people forget about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, Malaysia has, I don't know how many times now, come out at the first sign of, well, it went into the ocean, and they announced that's the official end of it.
		And every time there's an opportunity, they announce the official end of it, and it's never the official end of it, of course.
		You would think they'd be tired of being embarrassed by now.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		One would think.
		But if you no longer trust government, and I don't anymore, then you look at things a little bit differently, and you start asking yourself, what could an alternative explanation for this be?
		And this habit of mine may be the result of having worked with the Soviets for so many years.
		I've been a Russian translator for the last 45 years or so, spent a lot of time in the Soviet Union on Soviet ships and so on.
		And what is happening in our government, I'm horrified to see, is very, very similar to what we used to ridicule the Soviet government for doing three and four decades ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How the worm turns.
		Since you are so familiar with the Russians, I guess I would like to ask you, we had the Great Cold War, but through that one.
		We had the ending of the Cold War.
		We had Russia go into financial ruin.
		We had the USSR virtually disassembled.
		And so I would like to get your view on present-day leadership and Russia.
		What do you see happening?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, the one thing I see immediately is the leader in the Soviet Union, the de facto leader, Putin, is a former KGB agent.
		And those people were selected because they were smart.
		They were capable of being very crafty.
		They're highly trained.
		I would like to know the true story behind what Putin did in the KGB.
		And I think he's considerably younger than I am.
		I'd like to know whether he was in East Germany or even West Germany while I was there working with the Army Security Agency.
		I used to be a Russian translator on the border of East Germany.
		But there are books written about KGB training and what those people go through.
		And I see this man, he's a very capable guy, very smart, very calculating.
		I mean, one doesn't become the head of Russia by accident.
		You have to step on people to get where you're going.
		That may be the case everywhere, but most of all in Russia.
		And I'm concerned about Russia.
		They're sending their bombers very close to our coastlines now, our borders.
		And they're clearly acting so as to flex their muscles.
		And it's times like that that I worry about when people can easily panic.
		Even an F-15 pilot with his finger on the button can cause a major incident that can lead to war.
		And you combine that with the financial difficulties that all countries are now experiencing.
		You can't help but be alarmed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is it your view that we're headed right back into a Cold War?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Unlike so many UFO investigators, I'm unable to read future events clearly.
		I can't see.
		I don't know.
		But when I look at the economic situation that the world finds itself in and the markets find themselves in, and you stop to consider history, I'm not a serious student of history, but know enough to know that oftentimes military wars are preceded by economic wars or conflicts.
		And God only knows we have enough of those economic conflicts now.
		You look at Greece, almost anywhere you look in the world, there are economic strains, to use a more neutral tone.
		And I look at what the Federal Reserve must be doing behind the scenes, unbeknownst to the American people, and I do get very alarmed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're busy printing money.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And I argue that it's an Illegal, almost criminal enterprise.
		And Dr. Ron Paul made a point of this in 2008.
		Again, in 2012, I will share with you, I was a delegate for Dr. Paul.
		I liked what he was saying about civil liberties and what we have to do with the Fed.
		Even just audit them would be a good first step.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I believe he's called for auditing the Fed, right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		He has indeed, and it hasn't been done yet.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		And his son, Senator Randpaul, has called for the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Listen, I know that you don't often take calls, but I would like to take a couple.
		And I want to avoid UFO sightings, if I can do it, because people, of course, want to tell you about UFO sightings, Peter.
		It's better reported to the UFO Center as it should be normally.
		But if they have questions that concern the bigger picture, some of the incredible stuff, I've heard you over the years, as you mentioned, we probably did, God, 100 interviews, 200 interviews, lots of interviews.
		I have never, ever heard you make the kind of profound statements.
		And you've made some big, profound statements tonight.
		What's up?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I'm feeling desperation.
		I've been doing this job, and probably 15 years ago, you made the observation, and I've heard you do it several times, that how many of these cases, these eyewitness sighting reports, do we have to collect?
		It's becoming monotonous.
		We've got to break out of that mold.
		It's part of the reason I've proposed using passive radar.
		That passive radar, in my opinion, ends the subject of ufology.
		They either are there or are not, and passive radar will detect them if they are.
		That's the end of it.
		But what worries me more than the UFOs is the response of the U.S. government to them, to the phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's led you to the conclusion that they know or the deal's been made or the landing has been made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what led you to that sort of...
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		What bothers me is a U.S. government that is lying to its people.
		Now, if our U.S. government were a totalitarian dictatorial state, we would expect that kind of behavior.
		But at least in principle, the U.S. government is supposed to be still representative of the interests of its citizens.
		They work for us.
		The instant we lose that relationship recognition, we're in deep, deep trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure that it's not already lost.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I share your concern, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And today's politics reflects exactly that on it.
		Well, hold tight.
		When we come back, we will do that.
		We'll take a few calls.
		Please, generally, on some of the amazing things that Peters had to say tonight, keep your questions there as opposed to individual UFO sightings.
		is the dive in the desert.
unidentified		Did you see the lights as they fell?
		They're around you.
		Did you hear the music?
		I'm still away from the...
		Did you hear what your body's saying to me?
		I'm out of fast news.
		I've got a goo.
		Oh my.
		Midnight in the desert spans the world.
		To call us from outside the U.S. and Canada only, use Skype with a headset mic if on a computer and call MITD55.
		That's MITD55.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, for the person on the wormhole, yes, Hawaii and Alaska can call MITD51.
		We lump them in with North America, so no problem.
		MITD51.
		In fact, let me give out the numbers generally.
		We are going to, it's very unusual for Peter to take questions or comments.
		So if you would like to say something, it's area code 952-225-5278.
		We're not taking sighting reports tonight.
		Once again, unless there's something obviously really going nuts out there, this is more of a...
		In fact, probably the most profound, in my opinion, of his career.
		So again, the public number, 952-225-5278.
		Here is Peter.
		It's been an amazing night, Peter, with you.
		It really has.
		Here comes a caller from, I think, Atlanta.
		Atlanta, hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		Good evening, Art.
		Good evening, Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		I have 30 years of radar system design.
		I've read your paper.
		I think that there are several ways that you could approach your passive radar system.
		And in fact, the paper that you cite out in Washington State was actually delivered at an IEEE conference on passive radar in Boston that I attended.
		So I am familiar with that particular system.
		Oh, yes.
		And I was wondering, how does one get in touch with you?
		I don't want to bore Art's listeners with all the details, but...
		I could give you a call tomorrow or whatever.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		You can call me on the hotline.
		We've had the same hotline number for 41 years almost, 41 years next month.
		It's 206-722-3000.
		That number, again, is 206-7223000.
		And you can always reach me by email.
		Email is sometimes more convenient for me, which is just director at ufocenter.com.
		Director at UFOcenter.com.
unidentified		Okay, I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		before you go, Paula, you know something about passive radar, eh?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Quite a few emitter sources have been used, FM radio stations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You pointed that out, yes.
unidentified		The pilot carrier for DTV broadcast, the actual waveform of the D TV broadcast.
		And basically, what's done is you have one antenna pointing at the source, which gives you the reference signal.
		And then you have another antenna pointing in the direction that you would like to observe.
		And then you digitize both of those waveforms.
		You eliminate the, or you cancel the waveform on the observing antenna, the very strong local signal.
		And then that leaves the targets that you're interested in.
		You do the mathematical process of cross-correlation, and it gives you a lag.
		That is how much time occurs between the reference signal and the signal that you've just picked up.
		And then, of course, that corresponds to range.
		That's how your passive radar normally operates.
		And what I was going to propose to Peter was, I think there are several ways.
		I believe in your paper you estimated it would take $8 million to get a system going.
		Was that right, Peter?
		No.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		No.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		The outside expense of the prototype would be $750,000, and it could be as little as a third of that, $250,000 to build a prototype if we could partner with somebody who has access to good programmers.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, programming with passive radar is extremely important.
		No two ways about it.
		One of the problems you're going to have, and I have a very simple system operating on a, you know, for $1,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're actually doing it?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Listen, I'm totally buying to what you say, Caller.
		Thank you very, very much for the call.
		Get a hold of Peter.
		Proceed.
		Peter, obviously, this man knew what he was talking about.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he sure does.
		I'll talk to him tomorrow.
		I'll share with you, Art, what I learned from him.
		But what I've proposed vis-a-vis passive radar is now understood around the world.
		I proposed it 20 years ago when it was a bit of a novelty and people didn't understand what passive radar is.
		All I'm doing is thinking clearly, Art, and proposing that we could use an existing technology to solve the UFO phenomenon.
		And in fact, part of the reason I think the government is lying to the American people is because what is known as the U.S. Naval Space Surveillance System, otherwise known as the FINCE.
		We've all heard about the DU, what we used to call the Dew Line, or now the B-Muse line, which protects our northern border, but few people have asked what protects our southern border.
		And that was the U.S. Navy Space Surveillance System.
		They were assigned that duty, and they had a passive radar system that stretched from San Diego to Fort Stewart, Georgia.
		And every time a satellite passed over United States territory, that system would detect it, or a bolt or an astronaut's glove or a helmet or anything.
		And if they were detecting all of that, I ask rhetorically, is there any reason that they would not be detecting other anomalous targets?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Call them UFOs.
		And I argue that the U.S. government, that space surveillance system was started in the late 50s after Sputnik went up in, what was it, October 57, I believe, October 4th.
		And we realized that we're going to have to protect our airspace.
		So they built the U.S. Navy space surveillance system, and they operated it until October of 2013.
		They're now building a much more sophisticated replacement out in the Pacific.
		And why there, I don't know.
		Why they didn't just upgrade the system here in the United States is a mystery to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's heartening to me that callers can follow what you're saying.
		Winterhaven, Florida.
		Hi, Peter Davenport.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		This is Tom from Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Mr. Davenport, first I want to applaud you in all the work you've done in this important subject.
unidentified		You've been a great representative of mankind.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much.
unidentified		And I wanted to ask you what your opinion is of possibly all this activity that has occurred over missile silos is possibly, maybe it's not a threat.
		Maybe it's them telling us that they're not going to let a war of that type occur.
		They're just not going to let it happen.
		You know, it's almost like they're protecting a future outcome of that type of war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I had a guest who said that, caller, not very long ago.
		And then I was quickly reminded by somebody by email.
		They said, well, okay, if that's true, how come they didn't stop the bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
unidentified		Well, I mean, I've been a strong, I've always thought possibly they are possibly us in the future visiting and that we knew that was an outcome that needed to happen to progress mankind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yeah, it's a reasonable, I guess, conclusion.
		It could be, I can't rule anything out, right, Peter?
		It could be that one day time travel is going to be practical and is being used.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Very, very good question from our caller tonight.
		And it's a question that I have anguished with, struggled over.
		And I think all serious UFO investigators are having similar thoughts.
		What are they doing here?
		What's their objective?
		What's the relationship between us and them?
		If they're here, why don't they show themselves overtly?
		Although that has been happening more and more, Art.
		I mentioned at the beginning of this program that I'm interested in the quality of the reports.
		These overt displays of orbs or fireballs, I can almost date it to the day.
		It was the third or fourth week of May 2012.
		And since that first report, I have posted to our website.
		I'm going to have to estimate, because I don't know the exact number, but somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 reports of displays of fireballs or orbs, usually red, orange, or yellow.
		We have no idea what they are.
		And I'm hoping, like our caller, I'm hoping that they have a positive influence, a beneficial influence on our planet, because the alternative could be pretty ugly and doesn't bode well for the future of mankind's existence in this galaxy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always kind of been partial to Dr. Jacobs' point of view.
		And, you know, I just don't necessarily think they're our friends.
		I would love to believe they are.
		And then if some idiot pushed the button, some Putin-like person, or maybe the idiot in Korea, pushed the button, they would step in and they would stop it, and then we would know.
		But I also have the feeling they may well not care for us a bit.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		So they may look upon a species that builds nuclear weapons to destroy itself.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		They look on us fairly dimly and wonder why they should preserve something like us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Larry on Skype.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Larry.
unidentified		Hey, I'd like to know if you ever considered or got any evidence regarding these events that they are possibly interdimensional or spiritual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that comes up every time, Peter, people bring that up and deal with it.
		Is that an equal possibility?
		Or do you think these are visitations that have traversed light years, hundreds or thousands of light years, and they're here?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I think the latter are, I think they're physical beings like us.
		They build tools and they build craft and ships the way we do, and they are spacefarers.
		They're distributed throughout the galaxy that we live in.
		And we would stand out because of the electromagnetic radiation that we've been radiating for, what, 150 years or so, starting with Morse code, I suspect we would be like a beacon in the night.
		And if they were interested in other species, they would come here just to observe and find out who we are, what we're up to.
		And they may have a hand in future events.
		As I described earlier in this program, I'm very suspicious about what they may be doing here.
		I'm quick, equally quick, to emphasize that I don't have any proof, and I don't even have evidence aside from those citing reports that we have posted to our website.
		So I don't know, but I have some Christian friends who assure me that I'm dealing with diabolism.
		The point I make to them is that they may be both demons and angels.
		There's no reason to rule out one or the other.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Peter Davenport.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		And hi, Peter.
		Thank you for a very riveting episode today.
		I just have one quick question, and I'm wondering if you've looked into any possible connection through the scroll-sprint technology during the space race with a possible contact event, because it just seems suspicious that humanity could progress so quickly within such a short period of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, very, very, very good question in view of what Peter said already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about it, Peter?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Phil Corso addressed that very nicely in his book, what was it, not the day after, but the day after Roswell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, there have been others, speaking of attacks, circling way back to the beginning of the show, who have come after Colonel Corso and everything he said.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I'm not a fair judge of what he had to say.
		He seemed like a fair and decent guy.
		People have looked into his background.
		He did, in fact, have a very distinguished career in the military.
		I tend to accept what he had to say.
		So I don't know.
		I don't have access to the type of information I would need to be able to answer the caller's question accurately.
		But it's a very interesting point, and it's one I watch for all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's go, I don't know, outside the country perhaps on Skype and say hello.
		You're on the air with Peter Davenport.
		Hello there.
		I guess you're not, or you're not at the station or whatever.
		So we'll go here to Stockton, California.
		Hi, you're on with Peter Davenport.
unidentified		Hi, this is Ben from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Howdy.
unidentified		Hey, I just had a question for your caller.
		I mean, I'm sorry.
		I can guess.
		Yeah.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		Right.
		I just, I wanted to know your perspective on Project Bluebeam.
		If you happen to know, I mean, obviously, I'm sure you do know about that.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid I don't.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		I've heard the term, but can you describe it briefly, and I'll try to make it as briefly can.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		It's a four-step process.
		It's because of overpopulation and natural resources fading out.
		Supposedly, the top richest white males in 1954 congregated in Bilderberg.
		And eventually, it's supposed to be the first step is to emit low-frequency electromagnetic bulse waves to you know like lower people's you know minds and stuff and number two is supposed to be the hologram show and like you know the United States would see Jesus over the Middle East would see Muhammad step three invasion right we get the picture
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you never know, Peter.
		The way things are going, you never know.
		So I guess it could be.
		You know what he's talking about now, right?
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess I do.
		I've heard the term, but I haven't really focused on it.
		And I just don't have the information to be able to answer that question sufficiently clearly or accurately or cogently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I want to thank you for being here tonight.
		We're coming toward the end of the show.
		and give out your website again, please.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		yeah the website for the National UFO Reporting Center is ufocenter.com ufo c r.com and the telephone hotline is area code 206 for seattle 2067223000 2067223000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you know, again, Peter, I'm going to leave you with this.
		In all the years I've interviewed you and all the intervening years that I haven't, tonight marks some of the most profound statements of belief, I guess, that you've made, I think, in your entire career.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think you're right, Art.
		And I'm very concerned about what's going on.
		We have to get to the bottom of this UFO phenomenon.
		And most of all, we have to get to the bottom of why the government is lying to us.
		That troubles me, as you've heard me say tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		It's been a great pleasure, Art.
		I really appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Peter.
peter davenport ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a night from Peter Davenport.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you all have a great night wherever you are and up and do this once again tomorrow.

▲