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Aug. 14, 2015 - Art Bell

02:14:30

Art Bell MITD - Andrew Basiago Time Travel & Teleportation

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andrew basiago

01:30:08

30:46

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I beet you all.
		Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be, wherever in the world you are, every single time zone covered by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Now, this is going to be an interesting night in all kinds of ways.
		So prepare yourselves.
		Number one, we have rules.
		Not many, two of them.
		No bad language because we don't need it.
		And only one call per show.
		Those are the rules.
		That's it.
		Simple.
		I want to thank, as always, Telos for the great sound.
		And by the way, we are re-encoding the archives.
		You may have noticed, because I'm going to call attention to last night's show.
		Boy, am I going to call attention to it?
		That the last night's show is just spectacular in a great way above the others in the archives.
		And by the end of the weekend, all the archives will sound that way.
		They're being re-encoded.
		I think you'll like it.
		But Telos makes a year that gets it sounding so good.
		Keith Rowland, 20-year webmaster.
		My producer, Heather Wade, if you have a suggestion, send it to producer at ARPL.com.
		The Bellgab website, very vaguely lovable people.
		Midnight in Desert, people love Arpell.
		StreamGuys, they get the stream out to you.
		LV.net gives it to the StreamGuys.
		And Peter Eberhardt sells whatever we have to sell, which is only about six minutes of commercial time per hour.
unidentified		So your commercial gets heard really well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Last night, and it hasn't happened a lot in my broadcast career, but last night I was had.
		I was really had last night.
		And I must tell you that like many of you, I went back home last night shaking my head, going, what just happened?
		And it worked on me.
		I couldn't sleep.
		I thought about it.
		I refer now to Blanche Barton, my guest last night, the high priestess of the Church of Satan, the chairmistress of the Council of Nine, Anton LeVay's lover, partner, the mother of his child, all about Satan.
		And I'm sure that many of you who listened last night expected the sound of rattling chains, deep, dark, terrible things to be told, the fires of hell to be discussed, and it was none of that.
		Gee whiz, Blanche Barton was, what can I say?
		She was articulate, smooth as silk.
		Blanche Barton was intelligent, extremely well-spoken, and it didn't hit me until I did something I almost never do.
		I sat down and actually re-listened to last night's show.
		And here's what I'm going to tell you.
		It creeped me out more than any program I've ever done on the re-listen.
		It should have hit me last night.
		I was had.
		I mean, she was so sweet.
		And I should have caught on in the first, I think, 20 minutes of the show.
		We were talking about casting spells, I believe.
		And she said, oh, yes, yes, yes.
		I might cast a spell on some guy.
		And then he'll go to Hawaii and something wonderful will happen to him.
		It should have hit me.
unidentified		It should have hit me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't sell Satan to people with chains and blood and fire and damnation and hell.
		That's not how you sell Satan.
		You sell Satan with trickery.
		That's what Satan's all about, trickery.
		And when I went back to listen to the show, understanding that, it completely creeped me out.
		Not only is she the real thing on paper, in other words, she's head of the Church of Satan.
		She is the real thing.
		And that's how the real thing sounds.
		And if you want a truly, truly creepy experience, trust me on this.
		Go back to last night's show.
		After what I've just told you, if it didn't hit you last night, I know that it didn't hit many because they were expecting, well, you know, scary stuff, right?
		Scary stuff.
		But that's not what we got.
		What we got was smooth as silk.
		What we got was, well, I don't know, a promise of something wonderful on a Hawaiian vacation.
		What we got last night was the real thing.
		We got an invitation to join Satan.
		So if you are a time traveler, if you have access to the archives, well, here's the way I thought of her.
		In fact, do you remember during the show, if you heard the show, I asked her if she was an attorney.
		She said no.
		But boy, she sure did sound like an attorney.
		In fact, she sounded like, to me, the counsel to the devil.
		And that's exactly what I think she was and is, counsel to the devil.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		I know you can see me now, here's a surprise.
		I know that you have, cause there's magic in life.
		Rock Strike 12 and Betel.
		Nightingale is coming back at your way on the Dark Metal Digital Network.
		To call the show, please direct your fingertips to bell.
		1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you.
unidentified		I'm telling you, she got me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Last night, I was had.
		Roman in Indio says, Archie was articulate, alluring, enchanting, and seductive.
		Yeah, that really about sums it up, all right.
		And it just, it hit me like a brick.
		You can't imagine how it hit me.
		Maybe you can.
		I don't think you can.
		I suddenly realized, well, where was scary stuff, you know?
		I was reading people's reviews and they were saying, gee, that wasn't scary.
		But if you go back and you listen to it now, I absolutely guarantee you that you will understand what you're hearing.
		and what you're hearing is the real thing.
unidentified		That was the...
unidentified		Not...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was Satan's counsel.
		That's what that was.
		That's my own opinion.
		She was Satan's counsel, and she was very, very, very good at what she did.
		And if that doesn't shake you and rattle you and go down and tempt your soul, all right.
		So we have another show for you tonight.
		It's going to be a good one.
		Andrew Bashago is here.
		Andrew is a lawyer from Washington State.
		He holds six academic qualifications, including degrees from UCLA and Cambridge.
		So no lightweight, that's for sure.
		He was a participant in two secret U.S. defense projects.
		In the early 1970s, he was a child participant in a DARPA project called Pegasus.
		That was the first U.S. time space exploration program at the time of the emergence of time travel in the U.S. That's right, time travel in the U.S. defense technical community.
		In the early 80s, he was a young adult participant in the CIA's Mars Jumproom program, which used a revolutionary transport technology to put a human presence on the red planet.
		Today, Andy is waging a truth campaign to reveal his experiences in these programs to all of us so humanity can understand the true extent of technical development on our planet and the true history of our activities in outer space.
		On tonight's show, we, however, will focus on Andy's experiences in the DARPA project, the project called Pegasus.
		Andrew, welcome to the program.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Howdy, Art.
		It's nice to be on with you after all these years.
		I think I've probably waited 15 years because I've got some critical information for you about time travel, and in fact, a quantum bombshell to drop tonight that I've been saving for you as a gift, really, for all the great reporting you've done over the years on time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A quantum bombshell.
		And you mentioned this to me before without telling me what it was, so I have no idea what it is.
		And you say you're going to drop this quantum bombshell probably at the beginning of the third hour.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that would be best, just so it doesn't overshadow the interview.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, me too.
		I mean, listen, you've got to make people wait.
		That's what you do.
		Anyway, it is good to have you, and I'm glad that you have, through the years, listened on and off.
		That's great.
		So, I don't know.
		Let us begin at the beginning.
		You've got quite an extensive education, and you've got pretty good qualifications.
		So I can imagine that you somehow were involved in these projects, but it actually began for you, I think, when you were very young.
		So if you can, describe what DARPA's Project Pegasus was and how you became involved.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		DARPA was a classified defense-related research and development project under the Department of Defense.
		Specifically, the coordinating agency was DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.
		But there was multi-agency development, and the primary defense contractor involved from the private sector was the Ralph M. Parsons Company, one of the world's leading engineering firms.
		And it sort of cast an umbrella.
		It was an umbrella agency, but it cast a kind of a net into which they were putting anything and everything that would yield a time-space exploration capability.
		And by 1970, they had already reduced to practice, essentially, eight different modalities of what could broadly be categorized or classified as time travel, from psychic time travel involving conventional remote viewing, all the way into different forms of physical time travel.
		So I want to be perfectly clear that I'm not sharing a tall tale.
		I'm actually revealing something very significant, which is the true history of the development of time travel within the U.S. defense technical community.
		That's the historical context in which time travel actually emerged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, I just really want to say this and get this out so people understand.
		You were to be on the show two days ago, but I really want the audience to understand the truth.
		We tried to connect with you on Skype.
		And of course, as you know, we had a big bad hum.
		And secondary to that, there was the possibility of a cell phone, which, of course, is not going to fly for a three-hour interview.
		And beyond that, I think you had a landline with a portable phone that the battery was dead.
		So we didn't have any choice.
		People think that we did this on purpose.
		Some people, I think, think that, Andy.
		And so I just want you to verify for everybody that that is exactly what happened.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I think something about the momentousness of tonight's discussion between the two of us maybe was throwing some of that energy backward in time and sort of circumvented the technical infrastructure we needed to do a great interview tonight.
		So I'm glad that we did postpone and reschedule for tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what actually happened is you went out and bought a landline phone, plugged it into the wall, and that's how you and I are talking right now.
		Correct.
		Okay.
		All right.
		So they had all those modalities for looking into time travel.
		Now, what DARPA does is, in fact, look into these kind of weird, edgy things.
		That's what DARPA is all about, right?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		DARPA's legislative mandate from the United States Congress is to prevent military surprise.
		So ultimately, or initially I should say, the time travel project began after the famous October, or excuse me, July 1952 overflight of our nation's capital by nine extraterrestrial craft that were clocked at Langley Air Force Base at traveling at 7,000 miles per hour, which exceeded our flight capabilities, our jet aircraft capabilities of that time.
		Sure.
		But those extraterrestrial crafts, now this sighting was reported on the front page of the Washington Post.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, actually, people can go back and you can get a front page picture of the Post, and you can see these UFOs or whatever they are, just as you described, going right over the Capitol.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And what they were also seen doing was disappearing in one location in the sky and then reappearing elsewhere.
		And we concluded that our extraterrestrial visitors were in possession of time travel, basically of teleportation.
		So my late father, Raymond F. Bichago, had been working at Okanite Company in Paramus, New Jersey.
		And in October of 1952, a U.S. Air Force colonel showed up at his desk at Okanite and ordered him to report the next Monday to the Curtis Wright Aeronautical Company facility in Wood Ridge, New Jersey,
		where my dad designed the metal alloy by which the ramjet plane would not melt from friction in our atmosphere as a result of contact with molecules of air and would also not melt when it went outside of our atmosphere from friction with space dust, because the goal of the ramjet project was to essentially chase these extraterrestrial craft away from Earth.
		And that was my father's entry essentially into the classified defense-related research realm, the black project realm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And at this point, how old were you?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the 50s, I had not yet been born.
		I was born on September 18th of 1961 as the youngest of five children.
		So my father married in 1955 after three years at Curtis Wright.
		And then he entered a very creative period of his career that's essential to understanding how Project Pegasus fell together.
		He was working from 1956 to 1964 after leaving Curtis Wright.
		He was working at the Thomas A. Edison Research Laboratory in West Orange, New Jersey.
		Now this was not the historical Edison Labs.
		It was a kind of a think tank that was pioneered by Neil T. Williams, my father's essentially his supervisor and his co-inventor of several electronic patents of that era.
		And it was a very prestigious think tank.
		For example, two desks over from my dad was J.B. Johnson, who essentially made the timeline of key discoveries in 20th century physics by discovering signal-to-ground noise, basically Johnson noise, what we might call white noise, in 1928.
		Foster C. Nix, the prominent solid-state physicist, was also in this small lab in West Orange.
		And much of what my dad did were higher-end math problems that were a result of the development of different electronic components that were then being developed by that particular think tank, primarily staffed with electrical engineers.
		But then he was, at some point, he was asked by the United States government to repeat Nicola Tesla's teleportation experiments that Tesla had been tinkering with since his famous stay in Colorado Springs, Colorado in 1899.
		That was, in fact, the beginning of what would become Project Pegasus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you're telling me something I didn't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea Tesla had been tinkering with teleportation.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		In fact, there were three individuals on what would become Project Pegasus when I began serving in the late 60s and early 70s who affirmed the debt of gratitude that Project Pegasus owed Tesla.
		They were my late father, who certainly knew as essentially the point man between Parsons and the CIA on the theory and practice of Tesla teleportation because he had mastered all that at the Edison Labs between 1956 and 64.
		That was also confirmed by Jack Pruitt, who served as a team leader on Project Pegasus and according to Nichols and Moon, I think it's quite probable or quite believable, served as the research director for Project Montauk later in the early 80s.
		And the debt owed Tesla was also affirmed by a very distinguished member of Pegasus, and that was Dr. Robert Beckwith, who would go on to earn, I think, perhaps 20 patents, U.S. patents, on some of the most advanced electronic components that would be bought up by Robert Noyce and would become what we now call Intel Corporation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so Andy, you're describing this, aren't you, as the real Philadelphia experiment?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I want to make it completely clear, and also I want my critics to know that I'm sharing this information because I felt that I was under a moral duty to do so.
		When I look back around 2000, at that point being a fan of the Art Bell Show for, I think, 12 years, I think since the late 80s, I would listen to the different time travel guests and think about what I had been part of.
		And I thought, my God, my status would be sort of like having been an office boy for the Wright brothers when they developed flight.
		I mean, I have the inside account.
		This was the project in which time travel was actually developed.
		Now, there was a Philadelphia experiment, but the one that we know is a cover story that was scripted by the Office of Naval Intelligence to delink the three critical connections, the three elements, namely Tesla, teleportation, and the Los Alamos physicists.
		What would become Project Pegasus and the real Philadelphia experiment was the secret twin of Project Manhattan, the atomic bomb project.
		And some of the same individuals who worked on the bomb were quietly working with time travel for 25 years so that by the time I entered Pegasus as a child participant in the winter of 1968, Tesla teleportation of human beings through vortal tunnels in time space had been successfully reduced to practice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Question for you.
		I, of course, spoke, had a number of interviews with regard to the Philadelphia experiment.
		And some of the technical details were revealed.
		And I'm recalling rotating magnetic fields and all the rest of it.
		And it does, frankly, Andy, sound an awful lot like the same kind of technology that one might imagine could be applied to travel and time.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the story that has been propagated is a cover story.
		And there were critical differences in terms of what really happened.
		And our informant on this was somebody who was telling this story when I was a child on Project Pegasus in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
		And in four interviews, two conducted by myself, one conducted by the writer Alexandra Bruce, and one conducted by Ken Thomas, the great crusading journalist at Steam Shovel Press, over 25 years at that point,
		really ultimately to the early 2010s, to the time that Beckwith was now about 80, shortly before his death, he affirmed the same information, which is that the actual Philadelphia experiment did not take place in the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard.
		It took place in Long Island Sound.
		It did not involve the Eldridge.
		It involved a ship called the Martha's Vineyard.
		It was not an experiment into radar invisibility of the Eldridge.
		It was an experiment into Tesla teleportation of the Martha's Vineyard after the Nazi Navy began chaining ordnance to the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean and presenting a military threat to our ships at sea.
		It did not result in multiple sailors being fused in the deck of the Eldridge.
		It involved the death of one sailor who, when the ship went back not to Norfolk, Virginia, but to Newport News, Virginia, was falling through time space and was impaled on a column that supported the splash cowling of the Martha's Vineyard.
		And here's the critical connection.
		Inside the captain's mast of that ship, the Martha's Vineyard, was not Albert Einstein, as some have speculated, and was not John von Neumann, as was part of the cover story that was propagated, but were the Manhattan Project physicists J. Robert Oppenheimer and Dr. Edward Teller, and I can say that I met the latter during my childhood experiences in Project Pegasus.
		So we've gotten the gist of the fact that there was an important time travel experiment, or an experiment that accidentally yielded a teleportation capability.
		But it is a false story.
		It is naval disinformation.
		The actual Philadelphia experiment is such as I just described.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all of this information came to you from your father?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		No, that particular information was the content of frequent soliloquies delivered by Dr. Robert Beckwith at lunch in Albuquerque when we were sharing a meal with our colleagues on Project Pegasus, individuals like the science director of the project, Dr. Harold Agnew, when he was the director of Los Alamos National Labs.
		Keller was sometimes at lunch.
		I remember several lunches that Dr. Ivan Browning attended when he was the director of science and technology for CIA.
		Beckwith was obsessed regarding the real Philadelphia experiment, and he was constantly correcting those present so that they had the critical facts of what had happened and hence the critical debt of gratitude that Pegasus owed Tesla.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
		Yes, I can fully understand that, and I can understand an obsession with it as well.
		My guest is Andy Bachugo.
		And, boy, you're getting quite a story tonight from the high desert.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		Midnight Matter can be explored on midnight in the desert with Arpell.
		If using Scan from your computer, please be sure to use a headset mic and call MITD51.
		That's MITD51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold your calls.
		Don't call yet, folks.
		My guest is Andy Pachago.
		And he's a very well-educated man and laying this all out very carefully.
		He says, what we know, or think we know, about the Philadelphia experiment is not accurate.
		I listened, of course, years ago to Al Bielick describe technical details of the Philadelphia experiment, which you now say was kind of cover for what was really going on.
		Is that fair?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's a cover story.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It involved another ship, another technical process, but the critical thing they were concealing was the linkage between Tesla teleportation and the very Los Alamos physicists that developed the atomic bomb and continued to design more destructive nuclear weapons in the latter half of the 20th century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Okay.
		You describe eight modalities, correct?
		Is there a way to go through them fairly quickly so we can get a rough understanding?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes, especially if we conceive of it as a spectrum with, let's say, psychic time travel on the left, and then what I call physio-virtual kinds of time travel in the middle, and then into the physical forms of time travel.
		On the left side of the spectrum, the sort of the fuzzy logic side of the spectrum, we have psychic time travel in the form of conventional remote viewing.
		I can correct the historical record on that.
		Ingo Swan often claimed that remote viewing began at SRI in 1972.
		However, I and my childhood colleagues, I like to say that we were small mediums at large, we were doing conventional remote viewing for the Office of Naval Intelligence no later than the fall of 1969.
		And in fact, we were tasked, and it makes sense why we were, because John McCain's father was then the commander of the entire Pacific Fleet of the United States Navy.
		We were asked to determine whether Lieutenant Commander McCain was in the POW compound known as the Hanoi Hilton, and if so, where he was in the building.
		I imagine they either wanted to bomb his location or maybe extricate him from that location.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the very typical target for remote viewing.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		We were doing conventional remote viewing for the United States Navy.
		Then they began manipulating our environment, or at least our perception.
		One of the things they were doing was spinning us, and by spinning us, inducing out-of-body experiences.
		During one of those OBEs, I came to a mechanical limit beyond which my consciousness could not go any farther.
		When I described that machine or that limit to the astral plane, this was a direct quote from the lady from DARPA who was debriefing me.
		She said, others have described it.
		We think it's the technical infrastructure that's propagating the hologram that we find ourselves in.
		We're calling it the matrix.
		And this was upon me returning to my body from an induced OBE, induced by being physically spun clockwise on my back beneath a spiral image on the ceiling at 33 rotations per minute, which is certainly a curious number in many ways.
		The Masonic connection, the connection to the recording industry with the 33 RPM records.
		But we not only were going out of body, but when I reached the physical limit of those OBEs one time, that's what the debriefing lady from DARPA said.
		And this was, what, 29 years before the production and release of the Matrix trilogy, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I can clearly see how the spinning you talked about, physical spinning, could lead to an alternative altered state, I guess.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and that was what I call astral time travel.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		They de-rasinated our minds almost in a shamanic way, a very tribal way, and we left our bodies and went elsewhere, and then we were questioned about where we went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		So that, again, is very fuzzy logic time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have a long way to go to get to eight modalities here.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now, then in fall of 70, well, they actually started some of the physical time travel first, but let me stick within the logic of the spectrum that I'm describing.
		Okay, then in fall of 70, they took us to the general manufacturing company, the map-making facility of Standard Oil, which was then in, I think it still was until very recently, in Convent Station, New Jersey.
		And there they had a device called a chronovisor.
		A chronovisor is an electro-optical device that propagates a hologram that is so dense that it has the effect of lensing a non-local event into the laboratory, an event from what we would call the past or the future.
		If you stand away from the hologram, you can see something going on inside this cubicle field of light generated from a crystal array in the ceiling that has either happened in the past on some timeline or has happened in the future on some timeline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So being able to watch the future or the past, was it actually controllable?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could you design what you would see or was it random?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, the chronovisors were still experimental when I was brought into the project officially in fall of 1969, the beginning of my third grade year.
		And they were trying to just focus the holograms.
		It was sort of like trying to focus an old-fashioned television image.
		They were going on the blink a lot.
		They were kind of wobbling and then blinking out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got you.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Now, the paradox or the way in which the chronovizers became time machines was basically as follows.
		When you stood inside that hologram, in other words, when you stood on the stage of the device and the crystal array was turned on above you with such brilliance that we were actually conditioned in a Pavlovian way not to look up at the light because they knew we would be rendered completely blind for life.
		We would be blinded.
		It was so, so blindingly brilliant of a light.
		So we were trained not to look up.
		I now have 2,700 vision, so maybe my visual cortex was damaged by the chronovisors.
		But the way in which it became a time machine was that when we were standing in the hologram, we instantaneously went to that event scenario on either this timeline or another one that was being tuned in by the chronovisor.
		But when they were training us for the chronovisor, they were saying, Was it stable?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it stable?
		By that I mean you can imagine something like this.
		If it moved, shifted, or did anything wrong, you'd be in trouble.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Right.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		When they turned it off, it would go randomly through different time-space images, like a psychedelic short feature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		But when they were operating it, they could operate it on a standing basis and send us to specific periods of time.
		For example, I spent much of the first half of the summer of 1971 in New Mexico being sent to the mud in the street in front of Ford's Theater to walk into Ford's Theater on April 14th of 1865 to get behind the balcony seating that the Lincolns were sitting in and see who shot President Abraham Lincoln.
		And they must have sent me, I don't know, six, seven times.
		In fact, on one of those jumps in the chronovisor, I looked to my right and I saw myself walking through the theater.
		And only later, on the sixth or seventh jump, I looked to my left and completed that meeting with myself.
		So there you go, in terms of the paradox of sending the same person to the same event in time space.
		There was actually a duplication of my own presence at that event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That must have been really weird to meet yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I remember seeing myself on the right, and I thought I was walking along a long mirror looking at my image.
		But then the image of myself over on my right deviated over to the right, and I thought, my God, that's not my image in a mirror.
		That is me probably on a later jump.
		And then on a later jump, I realized, hey, there I am over on the left looking at myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		A couple of questions, if I might please.
		Was your father at this point still involved in the project?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my dad was one of the project principals on Project Pegasus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were how old, please?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I first teleported via Tesla teleportation between the Curtis Wright Aeronautical Company facility in Woodridge, New Jersey and the Santa Fe, the New Mexico State Capitol grounds in Santa Fe, New Mexico in the winter of 1968 at age six and a half.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Six and a half.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		And that was my brother, my father brought me right into a meeting with Dr. Harold Agnew when my dad was presenting the prospectus to test Tesla teleportation on both adults and children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, here is my question.
		It's hard for me to imagine a dad, being a dad, allowing his own son to participate in something that was potentially very, very dangerous.
		Now, maybe from his point of view, it was not dangerous, but sending your own son into something like this is incredible.
		As you think back on it now, how do you think your dad justified this to himself?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, the defense technical community he was working for was looking at two threats.
		I call them the grays and the reds.
		Basically, they were concerned about what our extraterrestrial visitors might be presenting.
		They weren't presuming there was a security threat, but they were mindful that different species from outer space with superior technology and development might present a threat of colonization or domination of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Enslavement of the world, annihilation of the world.
		They were also concerned, I mean, it's funny to think back, but their chief concern regarding the former Soviet Union and their chief conventional military threat that they were worried about was actually a landing of the Soviet Army on the continental United States by the Soviet Navy.
		So that was the background in the field he was working in.
		But personally, my dad commented one time when Raymond Kubik, his supervisor at Parsons, flew to New Mexico rather than teleported there to meet us during the summer of 1971.
		And he said, you know, Ray doesn't think that any of us should be teleporting.
		He thinks that the dangers haven't been worked out.
		But I think it's clear that the dangers have been worked out.
		And, you know, involving you, Andrew, you know, every time human beings have gone to a better world, like let's say left their island after they exhausted the local fishery or went to another area of the forest to find happier hunting grounds,
		even if they had to ford an ocean or a river, let's say, I mean, it's very human for humans to have put their children on their shoulders and gone with them into that future realm, that future environment.
		True.
		And that's what I'm doing with you.
		You know, actually, Ray Kubic had sort of an uncle role in our family as we were growing up because he was my dad's supervisor at multiple defense contractors and a family friend.
		He said, you know, your uncle Ray thinks I shouldn't be involving you.
		And I told him, look, this is the human future.
		Why shouldn't we involve our children once we found from our Navy enlisted personnel that these devices are safe?
		And, you know, I really feel privileged, even cosmically privileged, that my dad made that moral choice.
		I should also add that my dad had served as a combat medic and ambulance driver with the 13th Airborne Division in France and Germany during World War II.
		And he had seen a lot of death, and he had seen a lot of dead children as well.
		And he may have been somewhat coarsened to the risk that I was undertaking, because, to be sure, I was being exposed to new dangerous and experimental technologies.
		But I think his response would be, look, if we're going to maintain our autonomy as a human race on Earth against the extraterrestrials who are coming here, who we don't know what security threat they pose, vis-a-vis the Soviet Union, we have to take our entire civilization into this better world, this world in which we can be teleporting between London and Sydney In three seconds, not in 24 hours.
		So he was adamant about the fact that he had gone through the moral choice making and, in his mind, reached the right moral conclusion that especially because of the reasons why children were involved.
		I'd like to share those with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I mean, I understand.
		At six and a half, I understand, oh, Dad, I want to do this, whether it's for mankind or because it's fun or it's whatever.
		A six and a half-year-old, oh, of course you wanted to do it.
		Dad, harder choice, deeper thought.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but there were national security considerations, so let me share those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		The reason children were used in Pegasus, the first reason is we were experimentees.
		They had this Tesla teleportation technology and they expected to be teleporting, for example, the President of the United States, the Vice President, the Secretary of State, and other executive, military, and intelligence officials and their families.
		So we were experimentees into the mental and physical effects of Tesla teleportation on bright, healthy children from stable, intact family backgrounds, such as the first children would be.
		I think of the Obama daughters, you know, Sasha and Malia, when they first came into public limelight.
		They were about the age that I was when I was first teleporting to make teleportation safe for the country's first children, because they would be going with their dad, the president, if we implemented this in the executive branch.
		The second reason is we were necessities.
		And this goes back to the chronovisors.
		The chronovisors saw so much experimentation in Pegasus because unlike Tesla teleportation, they could go back in the past on an unlimited basis.
		I was sent, for example, on my second chronovisor jump to 100 million BC to see some dinosaurs in prehistoric Arizona.
		If that had been done with Tesla teleportation, I would have been stranded there.
		I would have been lost in time, not in space, but in time.
		So they were working extensively with Chronovision because of this unbounded time envelope.
		Again, they could only use the Tesla teleportation for jumps backward in time of a day, a week, a year, but not before the advent of Tesla teleportation.
		That was not so with the Chronovision because when they collapsed the holograms, we were back on the stage in New Jersey, excuse me, in New Jersey or New Mexico or wherever the device had originally been located that propagated the hologram that sent us back in time.
		Now, because the holograms were going on the blink all the time and the technicians were having conniption fits, basically trying to make them stable, they found that they needed to use either very bright adult diminutive people, small people, little people, or they could use children from gifted and talented student programs around the country.
		And they thought, well, since they're also going to be trainees to be the first generation of adult American chrononauts trained in childhood, let's work with bright and gifted children, gifted and talented children, rather than with diminutive adults.
		So we were also trainees.
		I was present in a kind of a sidebar discussion between the defense attaché to Project Pegasus, Donald Rumsfeld, and my father at a bar in Albuquerque sometime in the early 70s.
		And Secretary Rumsfeld said the following to my father.
		He said, Ray, we expect to send the children to the Naval Academy and use that as a pretext for involving them in future project activities.
		And in fact, I was set up to go to the Naval Academy, and really my refusal to meet with my local congressman, who was Barry Goldwater Jr., really began my rebellion and what would become my truth campaign regarding the time travel activities that I was secretly involved with by the United States government.
		I decided to not accept the bid to go to Annapolis, even though the skids had been greased for me to go there because I was one of the kids who had served in a time travel capacity earlier in my life in Pegasus.
		So we were also trainees.
		We were time-space cadets that they were grooming to use in adulthood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But as he sent you back, particularly multiple times to the same location, had they already determined that there were not going to be paradox problems, or was that a possible danger for you when you went back and met yourself or whatever?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		No.
		After deciding that children had to be used and my dad having the faith in me as a tough, blocky-headed, very bright young man, we were still dealing with the threat, in fact, of catastrophe.
		Let me just cite one example.
		When we were trained by Jack Pruitt in summer of 70 to begin Tesla teleporting, we had some contingency training that if, for example, we jumped through the device at Curtiss Wright in 1971 and we found to our dismay that it was 1791 in Santa Fe when we got there,
		we should approach the most responsible person we could find, the parish priest, the sheriff, the town mayor, and ask to be adopted into his household because we were going to be stuck there in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
		Hold it right there.
		We're at a breakpoint.
		Stand by.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Midnight in the Deserts.
		What a show.
unidentified		Wow.
		Welly, you done, done, mean.
		You bet I felt it.
		I tried to beat you, but you're so hot that I melted.
		We'll be right back.
		Take a walk on the waveside of midnight from the Kingdom of Nigh.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think Keith just had a bit of a time paradox problem down there.
		Not sure.
		Welcome back, Andrew.
		That was fascinating.
		In other words, you had instructions to approach somebody and actually broach the subject of adoption because you weren't going to get back.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was always the threat that there would be a quantum excursion.
		And in fact, there was one.
		One time we jumped through the device at Curtis Wright, the Tesla teleportation device there, which propagated a vortal tunnel in time space through which we flew.
		And then when the tunnel closed, we found footfall at our destination on Earth, in real time.
		But the problem was that a particular arrival wasn't a real-time arrival.
		We realized that the landscape around the roundhouse and the other prominent buildings in the Santa Fe State Capitol complex there in New Mexico had changed.
		And so we asked some young people coming out of the roundhouse at about 5.30 at night.
		We had milled around for several hours wondering why Jack Pruitt was not there and so forth, you know, our contacts.
		And we asked them what year it was, and they said, you kids don't know what year it is?
		It's 1991.
		So we had actually slipped through in a quantum excursion 20 years into the future.
		I was the captain of Blue Team.
		There were 14 regiments that were color-coded of 10 children, typically 8 in a group, and sometimes they would augment with the 9th and 10th child chrononaut.
		In this particular exercise, all 10 of us were there in Blue Team.
		And so I had specialized training to pull rank and lead the team in cases of catastrophe like this.
		So I asked to talk to the security chief for the entire New Mexico State Capitol complex.
		And actually, his lieutenant showed up, and I said, are you the guy that controls security for the entire complex?
		And he said, no, that's my boss.
		And I said, I want to talk to your boss.
		So about another hour later, it's now 6.30, 7 o'clock at the roundhouse.
		We're still milling around after having jumped there in the early, actually the late morning, like 11.30 or so.
		And I said to him, sir, I told him that we were attached to Project Pegasus.
		It involved teleportation.
		And there was a programmatic linkage to the Sandia National Labs because that's where the teleporter was that we were using to get back to New Jersey in the early 70s.
		And this man is leaning over, looking down at me kind of sarcastically.
		And I said, sir, I have to tell you, you can laugh, but at the end of the day, I'll still be 2,000 miles and 20 years from home.
		And then he got serious suddenly and said, I will call Sandia.
		It's now about 7.30, 8 o'clock at night.
		A white van shows up, and a young man in his late 30s with a ginger-colored Van Dyke beard, a physicist type, gets out and starts taking role of all 10 of us.
		Are you Andy Bishago?
		Are you David such and such?
		Are you Sharon such and such?
		Everybody was accounted for.
		He said, come on, kids, I'm going to take you down to Sandia, and we're going to try to get you not just back to New Jersey, but back to 1971.
		So we did have an accident.
		We had a quantum excursion where we were dealing with the paradox.
		In my own life, in 1991, I was simultaneously 29 years of age and attending law school in Portland, Oregon.
		The question is, were both those things going on simultaneously?
		Well, if that was 1991 on my basic, my alpha timeline, the same timeline I was on in 1991, the answer is yes.
		I would have been in two places at the same time, but at different ages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so what can you tell us about the problem of paradox in time travel?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it simply not a problem as we imagine it to be, because you obviously were in two places at one time without apparent consequence?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have very strong opinions about this, and I think the primary question that's asked is, can you go back and change the past?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		And that implicates the grandfather paradox, what I call the kill Hitler paradox.
		If you go back in time and kill Adolf Hitler when he's still an obscure Viennese postcard painter, how would you know about his rise to power?
		You'd prevent his rise to power, and you wouldn't know about him to have the motive to go back and kill him before his awful rise to terror or to political prominence.
		The grandfather paradox, of course, being if you went back in time and killed one of your immediate ancestors, what would happen?
		Would you suddenly blink out?
		Would a new timeline start?
		Would you be able to kill your ancestor to prevent your own existence?
		The answer to all of these questions basically is that in quantum physics, we have what we call the collapse of the wave function, which is to say that at a certain moment in time, the present falls into existence and then continues dimensionally passing through the time stream perpetually.
		Okay.
		So really what happens...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may have to break that down into English for me.
		I understand physicists, for example, theoretical ones, talk about instead of a paradox developing, a different bubble with a different timeline results.
		Is that what you're essentially saying?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		No, that doesn't happen.
		Actually, what happens when you go back and you try to change the past, you're in the original event.
		So the paradox actually is the paradox of retrocausation.
		Let me use an example.
		When in 1972, I was sent by Dr. Sterling, Colgate, and my father from a time lab in East Hanover, New Jersey.
		The building's still there.
		It's the brick daycare center at a Presbyterian church on School Road in East Hanover, New Jersey.
		That was a time lab in the early 70s.
		I was sent there via a technology called plasma confinement to the day that Lincoln gave the Gettysburg address, which was November 19th of 1863.
		And I was photographed by a photographer that I think was Matthew Brady.
		It's disputed.
		Some people believe it was a photographer assistant of Brady named Bacharok.
		But it looked like Matthew Brady because I saw him as he was taking the photograph of the citizens of Gettysburg gathering to see President Lincoln give a speech, which was the caption of that famous Photograph that I'm in from Gettysburg of that day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, that photograph, folks, if you want to go to artbell.com, we're going to have to slow down here a moment and tell them about the photographs that are on my website right now.
		This is really important to your story and to many people listening to it.
		So we've got the photographs up there right now.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first historical one is my kindergarten photo, and that shows me about a year before I first teleported.
		That was taken in September of 66, and then I ended up teleporting from Curtis Wright to New Mexico with my father, as has been now dramatized on Fringe, where Walter Bishop, rather than Raymond Bishago, holds his young son Peter's hand rather than Peter's brother Andrew, Bishago, and jumps through a teleporter.
		I think they have him walking through the teleporter in Fringe.
		But we were leaping into a field of radiant energy.
		So I provided my kindergarten photograph to your show just to show your listeners that I was about that young when we started these activities.
		I was only a year, a year and a half older.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It says you were five in this photograph.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I turned five in September of 66 in kindergarten, and by the next school year, my dad was involving me in applied quantum physics.
		I was teleporting across the country.
		So I was teleporting at a very tender age, and that's why I selected that photograph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now let's go down to the very important next photograph.
		And it is you, it says, at age 10 in Gettysburg in 1863.
		And there's several things about this photograph that I would like to say.
		Number one, of course, it's not really clear enough that I could say that's you in the photograph.
		I'm sure others have said this to you.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I would aver that if you look at the photograph, the faces closer to the camera, the men who are standing there closer to the camera, and the Union guards who have their back to the dais where Lincoln gave the Gettysburg address and are looking forward, their faces are also visible.
		What we actually see surrounding my face is a blob, and that blob was produced by the fact that when the photograph was taken, as I described before we even photoanalyzed the photo in my public lectures and my radio appearances,
		I was fading from view as the plasma confinement effect that was propagated by the plasma confinement chamber operated by Dr. Colgate in East Hanover, that effect was simply wearing off and I was evanescing back to the present.
		Now, let's go through the anomalies, though, in that photograph.
		The first significance of this photograph is that until the John Richter photograph was discovered in 2007, this was the sole surviving photograph that showed Abraham Lincoln in Gettysburg on the day he gave his famous address there.
		The second anomaly is that when this photograph was donated in a cache of Civil War photographs that had once belonged to Brady, a photoanalyst at the Library of Congress named Josephine Cobb took her magnifying glass and looked at the faces on the dais and found two pixels containing the face of Abraham Lincoln as he was sitting down after he had dismounted his horse,
		stepped astride the dais, walked over to his seat, waved to the crowd, and then sat down.
		And let me tell you, the cheer that went up when Abraham Lincoln appeared on that dais gave me chills.
		It was the most ecstatic celebration of an individual's arrival that I have ever heard.
		Clearly, Abraham Lincoln was deeply loved by the citizens of Gettysburg shortly before giving his famous address there and four months after the battle there in which 50,000 casualties resulted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Andrew in the photograph directly to the left of you is what appears to be an entity.
		An entity of some sort or something coming or going.
		It's obviously only half there.
		What is that?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It's not a shadow or blur of a contemporary personage from that era.
		If you look at clearly and analyze that anomaly, it is a non-human being.
		It's a humanoid being that is not Homo sapiens sapiens.
		It's an extraterrestrial or an intradimensional that has highly articulated facial features that are not human.
		And this may explain why this is the only public historical photograph in the National Archives that has been classified.
		When my colleagues John Gannon and William Stillings went to the Library of Congress to ask to view the negative of this photograph, they were told they could not do so because the negatives to this photograph have been classified art.
		So I want my naysayers to ponder that point for a second.
		So the third anomaly is this entity standing next to me.
		And by the way, I was what?
		I was a fifth grader of normal height when that picture was taken.
		The being next to me is about, what, six feet, seven feet tall?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By comparison, I would say yes.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, okay.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Now the other anomaly is that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it does not look human, by the way.
		I agree with that.
		It doesn't look human.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		No, and what was I doing?
		I was visiting 1863 from 1972, and guess who was picking up on the interdimensional experiment the U.S. government was doing?
		The beings that regularly travel in that non-physical realm, in that interstitial realm between timelines.
		Okay, so that's a non-human entity standing there.
		The other anomaly, the fourth anomaly, is the fact that this is the first bona fide image of a time traveler from the future taken in the past.
		Why can I say that?
		Because when this image was published in the early 70s in a popular magazine, we know it was, we think it was life.
		It was also published in the September 1963 edition of the National Geographic.
		I took that contemporary magazine republishing of this photograph to my father, who was, again, he was the point man, the chief technical consultant between the Ralph M. Parsons Company and the CIA on teleportation.
		And on the Sunday afternoon, when I found that in a popular magazine, I took it to my dad.
		And I said, Dad, look, when the project sent me to Gettysburg, they got a picture of me there.
		And he looked at it and he said, Yep, just don't talk about it.
		Okay, so here we have a defense engineer who spent roughly 1952 to 1984 working in black projects for the U.S. Department of Defense who affirmed the fact that I was in the photograph.
		Why could he?
		Because one of the first people I met when I walked up to the dais where Lincoln was soon going to be arriving in 1863 was my dad dressed as a Pennsylvania farmer, except the paradox was that he looked younger to me than he had looked back at the time lab in 1972.
		And he said later that I looked younger to him.
		Why?
		Excuse me, older to him, because we had been sent to the same day in history from different years in the present.
		So he had been sent there, let's say, 1968.
		I was sent there from 72.
		So when we met each other as father and son in front of the dais where Lincoln would soon be arriving to give the Gettysburg address, I said, Dad, what are you doing here?
		But he looked younger than he did back at the house and back at the time lab in East Hanover.
		And then he said, you know, I looked older.
		And he said, that's when I discovered you were destined to be in the project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I assume by now a lot of people have gone to RFL.com and are looking at these photographs.
		Now, there is one more photograph below which says it is you disappearing as you return to 1972.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		This is the fifth paradox, yes, in the photo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very, very interesting photograph.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		And let me say, I was publicly lecturing about that fact until John Gannon and William Stillings enlarged the blob.
		And if you look closely, you can even pick it up.
		I can pick it up on my screen here in Charlotte, North Carolina.
		I'm sure your listeners can.
		If they scrutinize that blob of my face, you can see my entire teeth, including the roots of my lower teeth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		I can.
		I also see something that looks like moisture.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was actually my protoplasm disappearing, and you can see actually through my right eye socket.
		That's my skull.
		But let's ignore the part that I claim is my skull.
		My teeth are much more clear.
		Now, wait a minute.
		The discoverer of radium, the Polish chemist Marie Curie and her husband Pierre, the Frenchman Pierre Curie, would discover...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to admit, it's fascinating.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so there wasn't any x-ray in 1863.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		There's no way that one of those historical, even if it was the best, let's say, Hasselbod 8x10 of that era, you can get a blur from somebody walking while the film was being exposed, but you can't get a blah from somebody disappearing in C-tube.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		This clearly looks like some kind of X-ray, some kind of something.
		Hold tight.
		We've got a break right here.
		This is something, isn't it?
		Andy Bashago is my guest.
		Time traveler.
		You might want to check out these photographs.
		They're at ArtBell.com.
		There are three of them.
unidentified		Look very careful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert.
		You're sure getting it tonight.
		What a story.
unidentified		And if you get hurt by the little things I say, I can put that smile back on to your face.
		Midnight matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness like Art Bell.
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALLART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do yourself a big favor, a really big favor.
		And if you would please, and you haven't done so yet, go to artbell.com and you will see a picture of Andrew.
		Click on that.
		When you click on that, you will be taken to three, well, you'll have his bio there, and then there will be three photographs, one of Andrew at age five, a year before he first teleported, second photograph at Gettysburg in 1863, and third photograph of Andrew disappearing as he returns to the year 1972.
		So here we have some offered evidence.
		I understand what you're going to say, the same thing I'm going to say.
		And again, that is that, of course, it's very difficult to absolutely prove that it was you unless we can do it by dental work.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		But the problem is that I was providing my account publicly and describing how the terminology I was using was how after the plasma confinement effect would wear off, we would evanesce back to the present.
		In other words, it would just wear off.
		There wasn't a need with several of the technologies for a time machine to be where we were sent.
		The effect would just wear off.
		Now, the effect was wearing off, and that camera, a Civil War camera, photographed my teeth from the side as any dentist could recognize.
		In fact, my brother's a dentist.
		You can see the roots of my teeth.
		Now, I'm alleging art, and I will allege to my dying day, because it's the truth, that that was me.
		I was sent there by DARPA's Project Pegasus, and that that's the first historical photograph not only to show a time traveler from the future, but to prove it, because it shows me fading from view.
unidentified		It does.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		That's why the X-ray effect happened in 1963, four years before Marie Curie was born.
unidentified		Right, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, a couple of questions for you, please.
		One, why did they send you back to the moment of the Gettysburg address?
		Why, in other words, I'm trying to figure out why they picked the targets they picked.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, when I was in the lab, my dad explained that it was basically an honor or a treat.
		He said, you know, I had been time traveling for three years for the government, and he said, you've done everything we've asked of you to do to the best of your ability, usually ably and well.
		And that included gathering intelligence in some cases.
		And he said, so we want to give you kind of a treat and let you go back and see President Lincoln give the Gettysburg Address.
		didn't reveal to me that he had been there years earlier and met me there at my current age by 1972.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure beats reading it in a history book.
unidentified		Right.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		But let me, so it was, that's how it was explained to me, but then they may have sent me merely meet me as a ten and a half year old when he was sent four or five years earlier.
		And so they were just making sure that they were completing the sort of the quantum syllogism of having met me and just making sure that they sent me because he had met me there.
		But let me just explain how I was using this as an example of how the quantum paradox actually works.
		Now, if you ponder the fact that I was sent there, photographed in 1863, and then after its discovery in 1951, this photograph has been widely published in news magazines because until 2007, it was the sole surviving photograph of Lincoln at Gettysburg.
		That begs the question of, did I not exist in the photograph until 1972, jump there, get photographed, and create another timeline that I returned to where suddenly my image was in all the news magazines that republished the Josephine Cobb image of Lincoln at Gettysburg?
		Or was I always in all of those photographs?
		And the latter is the case.
		Why?
		This is the paradox of retrocausation.
		From the perspective of 1863, I arrived as a time traveler from the future, was photographed, and hence my image was always in the photograph.
		So from the perspective of 1972, I had to go to 1863 to be in the photograph, but if I had flipped through, let's say, that September 1963 edition of the National Geographic that republished the Josephine Cobb image of Lincoln at Gettysburg, I would have seen myself in that image.
		That is to say that the past is immutable in the sense that when you go back in time to change it, the sinequinon of time travel is that you're in the past event, the original event.
		So I challenge the notion of Schrodinger's cat and the notion of a second timeline breaking off because when you go back to that past event, you're in the original event.
		The notion of a second timeline branching off, I think, is a form of magical thinking.
		But I would distinguish that concept from the idea of being sent to a different timeline.
		For example, we found that the chronovisors were unreliable as an intelligence gathering device, an intelligence gathering time machine, because every time they sent us to quote-unquote the same past event, it was always a slightly different version of that same past event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So for example, when I would pop into view in front of Ford's Theater and try to talk myself past the ticket table in the front of the lobby, right inside the door, as a society child dressed in my Sunday best and try to convince them that my parents had already been admitted with my ticket and were sitting inside, the person who would greet me at the ticket table was always a different person.
		It was like a man and his son.
		Then it was the man by himself on the second jump.
		On the third jump, let's say it was just his son.
		Then it was his son and his brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is that you, in effect, creating a small paradox?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think we should think of the disparate timelines as paradoxical per se.
		I think we should think instead of the fact that the multiverse.
		Well, according to one estimate, the multiverse contains as many timelines as would be expressed numerically by a number at 12-point type that would stretch for 130 million miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's a lot.
		Does the end result, though, still tend to be the same?
		It must.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you're talking about minor changes, not major changes.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, essentially, that's what we found out about the adjacent timelines, that the big things remained constant, like the notion that Abraham Lincoln gets assassinated at Ford's Theater on April 14, 1865.
		Garth Brooks becomes a gajillionaire-selling recording artist.
		The Beatles become the greatest group in the history of rock and roll.
		Art Bell becomes the great legendary number one voice in talk radio.
		Okay, so the big magnitude events are immutable between timelines, or at least they're almost immutable.
		You know, 19 out of 20 times, Barack Obama becomes the first African American to be elected president.
		But sometimes the big events change, but usually they don't.
		But what we found is the small interstitial events are highly mutable.
		So, for example, who was taking tickets that night that Lincoln got shot on all of those six or seven timelines I was sent to where he did get shot was always a different person.
		And my movement through the theater was always a different journey, but I was always there visiting the Lincoln assassination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But he always ended up dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a serious.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert, Great American Southwest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the year 2015, just for putting down a marker, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Wanna take a ride?
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket when you call 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Andrew Vitchanka is my guest.
		Time traveling.
		No question about his story.
		Now, clearly, he's got it together.
unidentified		He believes it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm starting to as well.
		It's an exceptional story.
		And people, of course, require exceptional proof for an exceptional story.
		But it's starting to sound pretty darn real to me.
		Andrew, I get these wormhole messages.
		And here is one.
		Apparently, all this began to gather intel, but at some point you began to have vacations, essentially, in time, and in-person history lessons, I might add.
		This person says you had a great story about being given a second summer when you were a child because the program you were in, the hard work, took a whole summer away from you.
		Is that true?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Actually, they gave me extra summers.
		Let me explain how that was done.
		And this has been going on in the U.S. intelligence community, presumably now for 45 years.
		What happened in the summer of 1970?
		We were just going back and forth in real time, utilizing the Tesla teleporter at Curtis Wright, and then the one at Sandia to get back to the East Coast, back to the tarmac at Curtis Wright.
		But then in the summer of 71, the summer of 1973 accessed from the fall of 71, and then the summer of 72, we teleported from New Jersey to New Mexico, spent an entire summer there, and then they set the device so that when we teleported back to the East Coast, we arrived about an hour after we had originally left, even though we had spent the entire summer in New Mexico.
		So I'm about nine months older biologically than my ostensible chronological age established historically because I was slipstreamed for those three summers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I would like to ask about your trip back to Arizona.
		You said back to the dinosaurs.
		I mean, really, what was Arizona like then?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, I first did a jump via the chronovisor array that it was at the General Manufacturing Company facility in Convent Station.
		Two boys had come into the lab on their stingray bicycles, two of my same-age peers, on their stingray, so that they moved the chronovisor in to what was becoming the building that was undergoing historical renovation to become the Morristown Performing Arts Center, beautiful theater there in historical Morristown, which also happened to be my place of birth, beautiful colonial era city.
		And my second chronovisor probe was from that chronovisor, and it was to a hot, red earth, humid Arizona environment.
		And what we later learned from Jack Pruitt, who was running us through the chronovisor probes, was in 100 million BC.
		And what I experienced is standing on the stage there in Marstown.
		We had a couple warnings.
		Then the hologram was turned on.
		And I suddenly found myself standing on a red earth ridge, sort of the kind of soil that we find around Sedona, Arizona.
		Very beautiful rust-red environment.
		And it was very hot, and I was walking up this hill.
		I started to just explore up the trail.
		And when I got to the crest line, I looked in this grassy valley over on my right, and there were two huge long-necked dinosaurs that were chomping on what looked like blades of grass that were, let's say, 20 feet tall.
		And then I just was thunderstruck at what I was looking at.
		And then everything around me began to fade like a chalk painting on a sidewalk in Paris.
		What was that movie?
		I think Mary Poppins depicted something like that.
		But everything just, all the color around me just started to fade.
		And then I experienced about 90 seconds of being enshrouded in this field of supercharged particles called scintillation.
		And then I would see the other children popping into view as blackbody emanations at first, an elbow, a kneecap, an arm, a leg, a head.
		And then all of the scintillation would stop, almost like a visual pattern when you have a migraine.
		Kind of the shimmer would go away.
		And there we were back in fall of 1970.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in New Jersey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In linear time, you were probably there how long?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		On that one, the scene faded, so I had to be in fewer than 15 minutes.
		If we were in country, so to speak, if we were in C2 for more than 15 minutes, a density effect would occur, and they would have to insert a portal into the hologram.
		And that was indicated on our end by sort of a soccer goal-like contraption that we were trained to run towards and run through to be sucked up in the vortal tunnel and brought back to contemporary New Jersey via a teleport that they had opened up at the back of a dinosaur tunnel in a defunct New Jersey amusement park.
		I think it may have been the amusement park Bertram's Island.
		But in any case, there was a fake dinosaur tunnel with a metal dinosaur.
		We would run towards in the time space place we were, what I like to call a time place.
		Wherever we were, if we were in for more than 15 minutes under chronovision, we would run towards that apparatus, feel a kind of a tugging into a tunnel-like effect, continue to run into deeper and deeper sand, and then we would realize we were in the dinosaur tunnel at the abandoned New Jersey amusement park, and we would wait there for about 10 minutes, and a van would show up and drive us back to the time lab in Morristown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When was your last time travel experience?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, that all depends on whether we were time traveling when we were taking the jump room to Mars or whatever planetary environment they were sending us in the jump room program.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It's disputed as to whether it was the actual Mars or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'm still willing to count that.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		So what year?
		That would have been 1984.
		And then I took part in one technical exercise in spring of 89 during the second half of my first year of law school in Portland, where I was summoned by Courtney Hunt of the CIA to travel from Portland to Albuquerque and then drive to Socorro, New Mexico,
		where I sat in a huge electromagnet array inside of a Quonset hut over near the high explosives testing center in Socorro because they were concerned that I would become destabilized in my time-space location.
		So he said, I know you're in law school, Andrew, but if you want to not go into the drink, you're going to have to do as I say.
		So there was some concern that I was in trouble at that point.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it that finally caused you to come forward and tell this amazing story?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what could possibly have motivated you to do this?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It's really the significance of the story itself and the moral duty that obtains.
		Basically, I began, I was kind of impeded professionally in my mid to late 30s, and I had some time to think about what I'd experienced in childhood.
		I never forgot and never had the memories of Pegasus repressed.
		Ten years later, I would have my Mars visitation memories suppressed very effectively, electronically, but I resisted the adverse treatment of myself that I was subjected to to make me forget my time travel experiences.
		And I mentioned them to my siblings off and on, to friends at school.
		But I never got anywhere when I tried to explain what I had been part of.
		I had been part of the inception of time travel in this civilization.
		And I had worked with some of the Manhattan Project physicists, Agnew, Teller, individuals like Sterling Colgate, who, if I'm not mistaken, discovered quasars.
		These were top people in quantum physics.
		And brilliant engineers like my father, like Dr. Beckwith.
		Brilliant facilitators like Jack Pruitt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm very tempted to say how could this possibly have been kept secret?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But then again, the Manhattan Project was successfully kept secret, wasn't it?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It was 64,000 employees.
		It was kept secret during the war years.
		So Project Pegasus was much smaller.
		It was kept intentionally small.
		I was in that initial meeting between my father and Agnew when my dad presented the prospectus for the program itself involving civilians in the teleportation experiments and training.
		And Agnew instructed my father to not even keep restaurant receipts when project personnel would be wined and dined in Albuquerque and Los Alamos because he didn't want a paper trail.
		So they had a small staff and they kept the minutia of the project absolutely secret.
		But in terms of my own motivation in terms of coming forward, I started thinking about what happened to me around 2000.
		So I was consuming all of your time travel shows.
		I took a hard look at the John Teeter information and found that I'm pretty sure it's a hoax.
		But I was also processing my own post-traumatic stress and my own disbelief about what I was remembering.
		And I spent years calling people, putting in keyword searches in Google when I could link, let's say, a set of keywords like Agnew, director, LANL, 1970, or Colgate, New Mexico Tech, plasma confinement, 1970.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask this.
		There are many people that you've named that were involved in all of this.
		Have you gone to any of them and said, look, help me blow this open, please.
		The world needs to know.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		When I first called Dr. Agnew in 2000, he said, you're mixed up.
		And I said, what do you mean?
		And he said, this is a direct quote.
		He said, the teleportation project wasn't at LANL.
		It was at another major lab in New Mexico.
		Well, of course, the return teleport was at Sandia.
		I interviewed people like Joseph Conison, who was one of my father's colleagues at the Ralph M. Parsons Company of Pasadena, California, which was really the defense contractor responsible for giving the United States government time travel.
		I spoke to him for a half hour on the phone and described everything I was remembering.
		He denied all of it and even denied ever being in New Mexico.
		And then he said, Andy, what are you going to do with this information about the teleporters, the chronovisors, being in this black project?
		And I said, Mr. Connison, whose name I clearly remembered from my dad's talking about him and meeting him on the project, I said, I'm going to write a book, tell it all, and try to get it made into a major motion picture.
		And this is a direct quote from a career engineer at the Ralph M. Parsons Company, who I'm alleging was involved in the time travel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, can you understand that people listening to this right now might also consider that as a motivation for you to be telling, in quotes, a story?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Book?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, this is what Con.
unidentified		Well, hold on.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I think I've earned my props in terms of not privateering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've earned your props.
		Don't worry about that.
		This story is told in a way that is very, very believable.
		I'm just saying people might look at it that way, Andrew, that you can write a book, perhaps have a movie, and they'll look at that as motivation.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		That's the case whether you have a true story or a fanciful one.
		But let me complete the story about Connisson because it'll give you a sense of what my investigation was like.
		He listened and denied everything for a half hour on the phone.
		I reached him when he was 90 years old in retirement in Beverly Hills.
		And this is somebody who spent his career at Parsons, which I might inform your listeners built an entire city for the government of Saudi Arabia called Yanbu, designed and built the MX missile system for the Department of Defense.
		We're talking about real heavyweights in engineering.
		This is what Conison said to me.
		I said, yeah, and tell everything about the teleporters of chronovisors.
		He said, a book, this is a direct quote, a book, a movie, nobody on the outside knows about that stuff.
		Okay, that's from the horse's mouth from Parsons, one of my dad's career colleagues with the Ralph M. Parsons Company.
		So next time your Southern California listeners drive past Parsons, look over and wave because that's the puzzle palace where the U.S. time-space capability emerged.
		It emerged as a result of Parsons doing a brilliant job coordinating this intelligence funnel that would produce a time travel capability.
		Ralph M. Parsons was so proud of his work that in 1972, he purchased what was then the world's largest private yacht from Adnan Khashoggi, the Iranian arms merchant.
		And what did he name it?
		He named it Pegasus II.
		And that was on the Parsons website back in the early 200s when I was beginning my investigation.
		And after that, it was nothing but the Earth giving up its time Travel secrets.
		On my second major fact-finding trip to New Mexico in 2004, I even went into the special collections at New Mexico Tech, pulled the Dr. Sterling Colgate file, and found a newspaper clipping from 1972 that announced that Dr. Colgate was going to be giving a public lecture on what?
		On what I had already been stating he used to send me to Gettysburg in 1863.
		Plasma can find me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've got a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible to bring physical items back?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes, if you're the person carrying the item or the person carrying the thing jumps through the portal with you if you're in for more than 15 minutes via chronovision, that's one way.
		We can't do it with teleportation because you would get stranded going there and being in the past.
		But we could bring George Washington or somebody back, or let's say, who was the man who got trapped in the whale in the Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Noah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Job.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Was it Noah?
		Job.
		Anyway, if we could open up a time-space portal, if we were to try to do that, we could do it by opening up a time-space portal via chronovision, inserting a portal, and bringing the person through with us.
		In fact, that happened several times accidentally when we were jumping back from the past.
		And we had to send the person back.
		We had to chronovize them back to their time space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably had to have them see a psychiatrist as well.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do you have any idea of what's happened since the time you exited the program, however that happened, and now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it still going strong?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I think it is.
		Let me say what I know.
		I know that in 1972, we were all told that we were going to be separated from the project as a pro forma matter.
		The project would never communicate with us again.
		And if anybody asked them whether the project existed or we were part of it, they would deny everything.
		That's what we were told.
		We were then shoved off deck like surplus helicopters off of an aircraft carrier and never communicated with again, except for my one-off discussions with my father, Courtney Hunt of the CIA, and then, bless his heart, Jack Pruitt, who met with me shortly for a brief briefing in 2003 in Santa Fe with his late son, Glenn Pruitt, one of my same-age peers who actually succumbed to some of the physical side effects of the early days of teleportation in the defense technical community.
		And so I was essentially separated from Project Pegasus in 1972.
		Based on everything that was discussed in my presence, however, and I was often the fly on most of the walls because when I was in New Mexico, for example, during those three extra summers, I was very frequently with my father when he was dining with his colleagues on the project, people like Rumsfeld.
		So I heard a lot about the future, about things that would emerge in the future like 9-11, like the Internet, like an epidemic disease called AIDS, like ubiquitous cell phone usage, like the identity of future presidents, the Bushes, Bill Clinton, all three of whom I had lunch with when I was a kid on the project after they were told they were going to be president.
		So if I synthesize everything I remember overhearing, I think we're kind of at this place now in what evolved.
		I think the teleports were established secretly at U.S. military bases to do the first purpose for which they were using children, namely shuttle our executive branch officials around the world in a time-urgent way.
		That is to say that I believe that probably every president since Carter has probably been teleporting and that the Air Force Once footage, at least some of the time, has been staged.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you in danger for telling this story?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I met with a representative of the executive office of the president.
		As my investigation was evolving in the early 200s, I met with a man.
		He was not identified by name, but by his job classification.
		I met him at the abandoned parking lot of the Wolf Creek Pass Ski Lodge north of Pagosa Springs, Colorado, right near the Continental Divide.
		It was June of 2003.
		There was no snow on the ground, hence no skiers, so we had a private outdoor place to talk that couldn't have been recorded.
		And he told me the following.
		He said, Andrew, we don't know why you abandoned your career when you were potentially emerging as a prominent environmental lawyer.
		We're kind of mystified as to why you're obsessed now with your childhood time travel experiences, but we want you to know the following.
		That Project Pegasus existed, that you were part of it, that you're not losing your mind, you were legitimately part of it, it was a bona fide project, and that it involved the development of different time travel technologies.
		But we also want you to know, in terms of what's relevant today and for the future, that the Executive Office of the President wants you to know that if you continue to investigate, write about, or talk about the technologies, we cannot guarantee your survival.
		So, Art, I don't know whether that was a Rumsfeld scripted.
		Of course, Secretary Rumsfeld was then SECDEF.
		He was Secretary of Defense at that time.
		He's been the longest serving Secretary of Defense under Gerald Ford and George W. Bush.
		I don't know whether that was a Rumsfeld-scripted strange lovy and warning to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounded like a warning to me.
		All right.
		Hold tight.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It was a warning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Warning.
		All right.
		Hold tight.
		Something, huh?
		A quantum bomb is ahead.
		I'm told.
		Andy Pajano is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Doing alright.
		A little driving on a Saturday night.
		Come walk me.
		Music.
		To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your Valanges and call 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure what you can say about this so far, except that it is a Well-told story by a very articulate man who absolutely believes what he's saying.
		And it sure sounds real.
		So, Andrew, welcome back.
		You mentioned something about a quantum bomb.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Shell, yes.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It truly is art, so I hope you're sitting down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let me set it up properly so you can put it in proper historical perspective and personal perspective because it's going to transform your view of the quantum hologram and your own place in it.
		And I offer it as a gift, certainly not as a criticism, but I offer it as a profound gift for your decades of great reporting in general and specifically your coverage of the time travel subject, which I think is going to kind of define the 21st century.
		I mean, we're going to be teleporting in just a few years when this technology is declassified.
		I'm talking about the Tesla teleportation technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you expect that to occur, by the way?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Under proper presidential leadership, if I or somebody else has to bring it, I think it's going to require a president committed to doing it, to declassifying life-advantaging technologies rather than keeping them secret and pent up in the war machine, in the military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us about in his January 61 farewell address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think it will take a president who decides the time is now?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and that's why I'm seeking the presidency in 2016 as an independent candidate.
		But it doesn't have to be me.
		It could be somebody else.
		It could be Jim Webb.
		It could be Jeb Bush.
		It could be Hillary Clinton.
		But we have to do it.
		And you know why?
		Because if we implement Tesla teleportation, we will remove from the atmosphere 60% of the greenhouse gases that we create that we can affect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of those possible presidents you just mentioned, Andrew, somebody who has done a lot of time travel into the reasonable future should know who's going to be president.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, I did know some of the past ones, and I believe my colleague Alfred Lambermont-Weber can confirm that I described the Obama presidency before it happened in 2008.
		I don't know all of them because I was just introduced to several of them.
		And, for example, I had lunch with Bill Clinton when he was still in law school or even earlier.
		I can't really date it.
		It was 69, 70, 71 in New Mexico, shortly after he had been briefed on his future presidency.
		But I don't know about the Hillary Clinton candidacy relative to that now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so the quantum bombshell, proceed.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I have to set it up properly, and that is that in the fall of 1971, my father was responsible for getting me through the teleporter at Sandia by 9 p.m. one night, which was some kind of technical witching hour that he had to do.
		But he was in the hallway regaling a young physicist, kind of a young Stanton Friedman, about the fact that we were teleporting.
		And this young physicist just couldn't believe it.
		He was asking about any medical side effects, how we were doing it, and so forth.
		So when I finally was almost picked up and carried by one of the ladies from DARPA, and I ran through the device at Sandia that night, I looked over at the standard clock on the wall, and it was 9.02 p.m.
		What ended up happening as a result of that, I don't know why, it was some kind of technical effect, is I began slipping.
		So for example, when we moved to Southern California in 1972 and I would be standing at my locker in junior high school in Chatsworth, California, I'd be putting my books in my book bag and then suddenly all of the noise of the horseplay of the kids around me would suddenly stop and the sound of them would actually be ringing in my ears.
		They would suddenly disappear and I would get kind of like this kundalini sensation and I would walk to my next class and I would get a tardy for being a couple minutes late.
		So in the beginning of the summer of 80, my dad got right in front of me on our front yard in Chatsworth.
		And he explained how he was going to send me over to a painting contractor near the Van Nuyes airport, Vanuy's California airport, where there was a teleporter in their shop.
		And the guys there would push me through the machine.
		I would pop out behind one of the buildings in Los Alamos.
		They would run me through a couple short hallways there, back into another Tesla teleporter.
		And I would teleport the short distance back to Van Nuys, popping into view in front of the building, and just walk down to my brother's Chevy Malabus.
		I said keep the keys to his car in the ignition, because of course you can't take magnetic metal through the Tesla teleporters.
		And my dad explained how this was an attempt to shave off the extra two minutes by which I was repeatedly slipping in life.
		For all I know, that showed up on the security cameras at the Northridge Fashion Center.
		I don't know how they detected I was slipping.
		I must have been seen disappearing from view.
		So this was going to be a means to shave off that extra two minutes.
		Now, to this day, I don't know whether they succeeded at doing that and returned me to my original timeline from birth or they basically placed me on a third timeline with the time between the slippage in fall of 71 and summer of 1980 being kind of a quantum interregnum during which I was on a second timeline.
		But my point here is I'm not on the same timeline I was up until that mishap in fall of 71.
		But something happened to me several weeks before that event in 1971 that should be of great personal interest to you.
		And I offer it now having spent 15 years waiting to tell you.
		And here it is.
		On November 5th of 1971, we participated in an advanced chronovisor probe from ITT Defense Communications in Nutley, New Jersey.
		I checked the date because it was the first Friday in November of 71, and I remembered how they were constantly asking whether we were psychologically prepared.
		And this was no ordinary chronovisor array.
		This light was so bright that we were stanchioned to the floor of the stage.
		There was a metal stanchion with a non-metallic belt that reached out, and we were actually stanchioned to the floor.
		Okay?
		Yes.
		When the light was turned on, we disappeared.
		We weren't seen walking out of view in the time-space hologram that was propagated.
		We disappeared from view.
		Now, whenever, and that was, by the way, that was the probe during which we were sent to the U.S. Supreme Court building in the year 2013, and I at least found, and during my debriefing with a lieutenant commander from the Navy down the hall, reported that the Supreme Court building was under about 100 feet of brackish water.
		But we didn't experience that in 2013.
		We came, however, within five to six days, that is, one degree of rotation of the Earth, of being struck on Earth by a solar flare that would have melted the polar ice caps and resulted in that event that we saw during that time probe.
		These time probes, after all, especially during chronovision, sometimes accessed alternate timelines where at least in that case that hellacious disaster occurred, but which thankfully we were spared.
		Now, before each technical activity, there would be an acclimation.
		We would be taken to the project location, and the technology would be explained to us to a group of about four or five children.
		So prior to that November 5th, 71 time probe from ITT Defense Communications in Nutley, we went out to that location.
		When we arrived in the room where the advanced chronovisor was, there was a sole technician who was working with one of the holograms, trying to keep it stabilized so it wouldn't go on the blink like an old TV picture.
		And he was very, very frustrated.
		It was clear from my surmise now that maybe he was there for hours trying to keep that hologram up.
		You can't send people in time space via chronovision when your hologram keeps collapsing.
		We run in as a group of noisy fifth graders by fall of 71, and the young technician about 25 years of age, bearing a striking resemblance to you as a young man, Art, said, would you tell these children to shut the blank up?
unidentified		Now, hold on, Art.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It gets better.
		Our facilitator was a beautiful young brunette named Elaine Gallagher.
		She was a stunning young woman, kind of Diana Rigg at 21.
		She was a beautiful woman.
		And she said, and very kind, and she said to the technician, you know, we're not supposed to use profanity around the children.
		That's definitely verbodin.
		Give me your name.
		I want to put you up on report.
		And the technician, on this is my, bear with me, this was my initial timeline.
		I hadn't been shifted yet as a result of the mishap at Sandia.
		The young tech technician said, Arthur William Bell III, but to a young lady as pretty as you, you can just put me up on report as Art.
		What I'm saying, Art, is we are making broadcasting history tonight because this is the first interview in which a U.S. chrononaut, as a guest, is being interviewed by a radio host who the chrononaut met on an alternate timeline when he was time traveling for the U.S. government.
		I encountered you when I was in Project Pegasus, and I've been waiting 15 years to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell the audience, and I don't think I've really told anybody that I know of except some close friends a long time ago.
		I worked for ITT in Nutley, New Jersey.
		I was a technician, and I was checking WaveGuide for a government project, rather secret government project, actually.
		So that's the truth.
		I don't exactly remember what you just said about the children and about my expletive, but I indeed work for ITT in Nutley, New Jersey.
		So.
		Oh, my God.
		Okay, that's a bomb.
		That's a bomb show.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm going to break it here because how the hell could he know that?
		I did.
		I worked for ITT in Nutley.
unidentified		That can be verified.
		Get it in the dark.
		Get the rain in the top.
		Meantime.
		Out of the river, you're dumb in your home.
		Thank you.
		I still run.
		I'll always be around and around and around and around and around.
		Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nigh.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art.
		Well, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I let this play because I really needed time to think a little bit about this.
		He's right about the timeline.
		I don't know how much I can tell you about this because it was a government project.
		But I was working for ITT in Nutley, New Jersey at the time I lived in Newark, New Jersey with my dad.
		And commuted by bus to Nutley.
		was checking waveguide for SWR for those of you who know what that means and working in vans that were you I do know a lot of it was classified, and I don't know how much I can actually talk about it.
		But yes, he dropped a quantum bombshell on me.
		There's no question about that, and I'm giving it as much thought as I can, trying to decide how he knows this.
		Andrew, you're back on the air.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		I do apologize if it was personally shattering, but I think it's a perfect object lesson, Actually, in timelines.
		The reason that I have this memory is because it happened to me, but we know it happened on the original timeline that it was on.
		Now, one decision could have resulted in you working on chronovision rather than waveguide propagation in that context at that time as yourself.
		And that decision would have been the decision by the Pope of Rome, by the Vatican, to release Ernetti and Gemelli's chronovision to the United States government.
		Chronovision emerged in the early 1940s in the work of two Vatican musicologists named Pellegrino Ernetti and Agostino Gemelli.
		They were distinguished Catholic prelates doing investigations at the Catholic University of Milan into the harmonic patterns in Gregorian chants.
		And when they made a change on a specialized microphone, something that Gemelli's father had said to him in childhood came through the device.
		And they realized, well, wait a minute, there's some connection, obviously, here to Augustino, but we've just created a portal of sound between the present and his childhood.
		We've just accidentally discovered a time travel device.
		Okay, so one decision could have governed whether you ended up working on chronovision or waveguide propagation at ITT Defense Communications at that time.
		But the reason that I know that you worked there is simply I met you there, and because of the way you responded to her statement that she was going to put you up on report, you kind of honorably defended your whole name, and then you kind of flirted with her and said, well, you know, I did a lot of that back then.
		Yeah, and it kind of fits in personality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Andy, Andy, this is where we stop, and I'm going to open phone lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you willing to face the public?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		But I had to share that with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think, again, thanks for blowing my mind.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I know it would blow your mind, but we think of timelines as concrete highways, but they're not.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		They're holographic, so they're semi-overlapping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will only say this.
		What we were working on at the time at ITNT was for NATO, and I'm going to stop right there.
		And, oh, my God.
		So I'm going to open the phone lines.
		Here it is, folks.
		Our public number is Area Code 952.
		How could he have known that?
		952-225-5278.
		Area code 952-225-5278.
		If you want to call us on Skype, you can do it.
		In North America, America, Canada, it's M-I-T-D-51.
		M-I-T-D-5-1.
		Outside of North America, it's M-I-T-D-55.
		M-I-T-D 5-5.
		All of that said, Andrew, here it comes.
		Let's try Matthew, I believe, on Skype.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Matthew, the Sunday school teacher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I was, it was not Noah or Job that was in the well.
unidentified		It was Jonah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jonah, yes, Jonah.
unidentified		I got that.
		And if I just might say, you had a caller on the other night saying that 666 was part of Babylonian astronomy from the book of Daniel.
		That is incorrect.
		It's from the book of Revelation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Thank you for that.
		Now, if you would concentrate, we don't have a lot of time, so if you have a question for Andy.
unidentified		Yes, I wonder how he brings up his challenges against the Pope of Rome.
		This is a wicked and idolatrous doctrine.
		I want to just say, rest in peace to J.C. Webster III.
		Thank you very much, Art.
		I'll take my answer off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rest in peace, J.C. Webster.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wasn't criticizing the Pope or the Vatican.
		I was just simply stating the historical fact that I learned from my father that one of the, like his own work repeating Tesla's teleportation experiments at the Edison labs in the late 50s and early 60s, another major technical input into Project Pegasus was Vatican technology.
		The Catholic University of Milan is a Vatican institution, and hence the Vatican had control over the chronovision technology that Ernetti and Gemelli developed beginning in the 40s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there was something very familiar about that voice that I just heard.
		And I just want to state if that was JC's son.
		You have my condolences.
		Hello there.
		I'm Skype.
		You're on the air with Andy.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Celestio from Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Montana.
unidentified		Roswells, I want to ask your guests, please tell us about your connection to Obama because I know you have a connection with our president.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and in fact, that's a connection that the president has affirmed factually through an intermediary to my team consisting of William Stillings and Bernard Mendez.
		Barack Obama, utilizing the name Barry Satoro, was a participant in the Mars Jump Room program, and his participation has been affirmed by three fellow participants, myself, William Stillings, and Bernard Mendez.
		He was then using the name Barry Satoro, and like my father, Raymond, and William Stillings' father, Tom Stillings, his mother or adoptive mother, whatever the truth of that is, Stanley Ann Dunham, frequently audited our training courses at College of the Siskius in summer of 1980.
		During that summer, I briefly roomed with President Obama.
		He was a Muslim belonging to a specialized sect of Islam, the Subud sect of Islam from Indonesia.
		But I did find him praying to Mecca at about 4 o'clock one night when I came back to our dorm room that we shared.
		I sometimes ran into Barry, as we called him, in Los Angeles during those years.
		I sometimes would encounter him at the jump room facility at 999 North Sepulveda, which was a Hughes aircraft facility in El Segundo, California.
		And I was on several jumps with him, including about five exploratory jumps in a team of three with Bernard Mendez serving as our senior officer.
		So the President has not publicly affirmed his Involvement.
		He is now commander-in-chief of the U.S. military, so he's put in a pretty difficult spot to affirm his involvement in a defense project that remains secret.
		But I think I'm at liberty to state that through an intermediary to Bernard Mendez, he stated that he remembered his involvement in the Mars Jumproom program.
		He remembered me vividly as one of his friends and colleagues on the project.
		But everything seemed vague and dreamlike.
		But notwithstanding that fact, that when he left the presidency, he would affirm his involvement in the Mars Jumproom program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Lawrence, you're on the air with Andy.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		Yes, where are you?
		Yes, you're on the air.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I live in London.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		London, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, very interesting program.
		Absolutely fascinating.
		I was looking at the second image, and I've been technical illustrator for years in my life, so I'm quite used to looking at perspectives.
		And the image of Andrew in the second image just seems to me as if it's too big in relation to the rest of the images.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		I was undergoing a time-space effect where the softer, more pliable parts of my body were evanescing.
		The effect was wearing off, and I was going back to 1972.
		The denser bodily structures, such as my teeth and skull, are holding back.
		Art mentioned earlier that there seems to be water present.
		That was probably the water in my head.
		So I was actually being obliterated at that location, dematerialized, if you will, as I was disappearing from view as the plasma confinement effect was wearing off.
		So it is, I noted the discrepancy that you've identified.
		Essentially, my head looks bigger than it should, but I would add that my head was dematerializing.
		And it's a classic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		All right.
		That's all he's got.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was going to add, Art, that it can't be the classic Civil War-era photograph defect where somebody moved when the negative was being exposed because that created a moving blur.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		What we see there is a standing fade, and there was no technology to produce that in 1863.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Not a lot of time here.
		Bellevue, Washington.
		You're on the air with Andy.
		Bellevue, Washington.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		My name is Matt.
		I'm from Bellevue, Washington.
		Thank you for going on there and taking my call.
		And Andy, I've spoke with you a few times on Facebook, but you've sort of answered this question vaguely in the past, but I kind of wanted to get a little more clarification.
		You, of course, tonight's episode, they're talking about the chronovision and going back and forth in time and such, but you also have the experience with the Mars teleportation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir, we need your question right now, please.
unidentified		Okay, my question is, is it possible that when you traveled to Mars, it wasn't on the same timeline as we're living in now?
unidentified		Okay.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		At this point in our investigation, all of the above is possible.
		We could have been going to the past on Mars, the ancient past, the far future on Mars.
		We could have been going to something else.
		Bernard Mendez theorizes that we were going to what we've named a synthetic quantum environment in which a Mars-like environment was set up.
		And there's support for that because there were holographic effects that intruded into our experiences that indicate that it wasn't strictly a spatial accessing of Mars.
		There were temporal anomalies, there were holographic anomalies.
		So we believe that the jump room to Mars may not have been a teleporter.
		It may have been some form of exoplanetary chronovisor that was propagating a hologram of Mars that was reproducing the actual Mars, but in a synthetic environment.
		That's our best guess at this point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold tight.
		We're at a break.
unidentified		How could he possibly have known about that ITP?
		ITT leather.
		Nuttall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No idea.
unidentified		No clue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Such a distant part of my past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network with Art Bell.
		Invite you to call now, 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, on the wormhole, Kelly thinks I may have mentioned working just briefly for ITT and the Art of Talk, a book I wrote back in 98.
		I'm not sure about that.
		I'll have to check it out.
		If I did, it was kind of an obscure reference.
		But Andy certainly blew my mind with this.
		Andy, you're back on the air again.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Art, I think the analogy is to the Lincoln assassination.
		I mean, the six or seven times I was sent there, a lot of minor details changed, but every night Lincoln did get assassinated.
		I think the analogy to your life experience is that on at least two adjacent timelines, you were at ITT Defense Communications in fall of 1971, but you were working on different secret defense applications.
		And that's the nature of the alternate timelines.
		We find the same people doing similar things, but sometimes there's a slight difference in what they're doing.
		But it does put you in the same location, and that's my interpretation.
		I didn't think when I was holding this quantum bombshell that on this timeline you were a Project Pegasus participant, because I had figured out the way that my own movement between timelines altered the data from the early 70s.
		I mean, that acclimation trip out to ITT Defense Communications probably took place around October 20th of 71.
		But it was on another timeline.
		And here we find you at that defense contractor involved in secret defense work, but of a different nature.
		And I think that's almost a perfect example of the way in which the alternate timelines, at least the adjacent ones, are similar, holographic, semi-overlapping, but slightly dissimilar.
		In this case, what you were working on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll say this, Andy.
		I talked about motive for booking a movie.
		You sure as hell ought to proceed with it because you definitely got it down.
		I mean, it's so believable because of the way you deliver with such confidence.
		And look, here we go.
		Biff, on Skype, you're on the air with Andy.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I'm just going to, I got a quick story from the Civil War photo actually reminded me of a story I heard from my great-grandfather.
		He was back in the 1890s, encountered a blacksmith, did a really bad job under the horseshoe.
		My great-grandfather was not a nice man at all, threatened to kill this blacksmith.
		And before he could do it, the blacksmith and a strange young man, they disappeared on a train.
		And I'm wondering if Andy knows if that's connected to Project Pegasus at all.
		I'll take my answer off there.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It certainly could have been, but since the ultimate historical thrust of my account is that time travel actually emerged and was fully operational by 1970, which is sort of the year that I peg everything on.
		Everything was fully operational by 70.
		There's really an unlimited field in the future from which time travelers could be coming back to any date.
		So my answer would be it could have been a chrononaut from Project Pegasus or a chrononaut from some other future project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, people certainly do disappear, don't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hazelton, Pennsylvania, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, I have to turn my radio down here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you should do that before you get on the air, actually.
unidentified		Okay.
		I didn't want to miss any of the program.
		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn it off, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the way off.
unidentified		I have two quick questions for you.
		I had a serious accident.
		I'm a musician, and about a year ago I had a serious accident with my hearing that did some permanent damage, causing distortion.
		If someone could go back in time, could they correct a problem like that or keep it from happening?
		And the other question is, when you went through this time period when you went to different times and back, do you remember everything that happened?
		And did it physically change your body or the way you felt?
		Or did it do anything physically to you that caused you to feel differently?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Both good questions.
		Thank you.
		First, his hearing question, and it's a good one.
		If you had a medical illness that was the result of some sort of, I don't know, industrial accident or whatever, and you harmed your hearing, could you go back in time and change that?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you went back in time, you'd be the age that you are at the time that you start the journey in the future.
		Because the past is immutable, because of the collapse of the wave function in the present, during the past's present, you can participate in a past event, but you can't change what happens because you're in the original event.
		So at most, you could have gone back and informed yourself to avoid the accident, but it looks like since the past shows that you developed a hearing loss from the accident, that you didn't prevent it.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Okay.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Physical changes for you in time travel.
unidentified		Any?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, there were medical side effects.
		The child teleportees in adulthood have developed a disease that mimics diabetes.
		That was the major part of Jack Pruitt's motivation for meeting with me in June of 2003 to advise me of that malady and to pursue basically caloric restriction and glycemic indexing of my food to avoid rampant weight gain, which, thank God and thank Jack, I have avoided.
		Others have not been so lucky.
		Adults who were teleporting in that era, including my father, developed heart valve defects because their tissues were denser and the vibrational effects within the vortal tunnel, it was believed, fused their fusing dangers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are dangers.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, my dad lived the last 13 years of his life with an artificial mitral valve, which had to be removed during open heart surgery.
unidentified		Got it.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		And that was undoubtedly from his teleporting in Project Pegasus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mark, wherever you are, you're on with my guest, Andy.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Mark again in Bern, Switzerland, and I have a question for Andy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Andy, if timelines, or if you could have multiple timelines in the past, it sort of says that, I don't know, the past is fluid in some sense.
		What does this say about causality, cause and effect?
		How does this change what we take for granted, that if A happens, then B follows?
		Can you say something about that?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Well, time travel definitely upturns the notions and understandings we have from early infancy about causality.
		This is actually a very brilliant question.
		Essentially, when you time travel to the past and intervene in a past event, you are providing the what you basically propagate is the effect before the cause.
		I mean, I was in 1863 appearing in that photograph before I went there.
		So the effect precedes the cause during retrocausation by going back to the past.
		Just syllogistically, the same applies to the future.
		So in fact, time travel disrupts and overturns our conventional abiding notions of causality.
		This is why I've spent, I don't know, 100,000 words, 1 million words on Facebook explaining the fact that when you go back to the past, you can't change the event that occurred because you were visiting the original event and you were part of it.
		But if you were traveling from the future, you were creating the cause before the effect rather, before the cause was offered, which you only offer in the future when you go back and time travel and affect the past.
		It's not something that people can readily grasp because after object permanence in infancy, we then start to understand causality.
		We know if we cry that our mother's going to show up at our crib and that B follows A. And that's the way the universe works.
		But the problem is that time travel upsets our notions of causality.
		I think in terms of the other question I think that you're implicitly acting, which is something about the phenomenology of reality, it really goes back to the Einstein-Heisenberg dilemma.
		Einstein believed that the world exists because we perceive it, whereas Heisenberg insisted that the world exists and we perceive it.
		I don't think that that tautology has really been resolved, but I kind of lean towards Heisenberg because I think even if I don't think about some aspect of the world, it has an a priori existence, and that's why I can sometimes perceive what's in the world, like what the Eiffel Tower looks like or any kind of data point like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mark.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Thank you very much for the call, and take care of yourself there in Switzerland.
		Let's go to, I don't know, Bloomington, Illinois on the phone.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Hi, Art.
		My name is George.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, George.
unidentified		And it's been a pleasure listening to you guys speak about this this evening.
		And I would like to ask Andrew a question there about his time travels into the future.
		As far as when you traveled into the future, were you able to make any note of any kind of major medical advancements that might have taken place that have not yet taken place, such as maybe cures for, say, blindness or that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really a good question.
		Really a good question.
		What about it, Andrew?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Implies, or infers rather, the question about whether ethically we should require the government to visit the future and bring back technologies that would be life-advantaging.
		And I was told they didn't want to do that because they were concerned that the developmental timelines would not occur and that, for example, a technology would be introduced that there would be no mechanics to repair or spare parts to repair.
		But your basic question is whether I saw any biological or medical changes in the future, and I did.
		Most of my time travel was to the past.
		I went to 2013 via Advanced Chronovisor, and then I teleported, I don't know, maybe about 10 times to 2045 to pick up the summaries of intervening events between the 1970s and 2040s and bring them back to the early 1970s.
		One thing I noticed at that CIA building where I was retrieving those microfilm summaries of intervening events was that the young people were very tall.
		So I think there's a kind of an avatar effect that will probably result from improved nutrition, neonatal and postnatal care, and probably genetic engineering.
		The human species is going to become taller and more life physically.
		Because clearly I could tell as a fifth grader from New Jersey of ordinary stature that the young people I was interacting with were very tall compared to, for example, my college-aged cousins and were even taller than some of the ordinary statured people at that particular building, which was an intelligence community building somewhere in the American Southwest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, he was asking about specifically medical advances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was interesting about getting taller, but for example...
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		No, see, most of what I learned about the future was shop talk because I only did those jumps.
		And, you know, when you teleport to a particular location in the future, just like if you were to fly into New York City, the mere fact that you're there doesn't make you omniscient about the past, present, and future of that locale.
		You only get that thin slice of the quantum hologram that is your immediate experience at that time place, that location.
		So most of what I learned about what the future held relative to the early 1970s was what I overheard the adults in the project talking about at lunch, for example, at 9-11 and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jordan on time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jack W. on Skype, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		Mr. Visagio, I have just an easy question for you.
		You said earlier that you're able to spend summers traveling abroad, kind of doing your own research.
		Where was someplace that you enjoyed going and that you would go back to if you had a chance?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		No, I think that you're confused about what we were talking about.
		What I was describing was that in the summer of 71 and 73 and then 72, because we accessed the summer of 73 from fall of 71, we teleported to New Mexico, spent those entire summers there, and then when we teleported back to New Jersey, they set the teleportation device in New Mexico to deliver us back about an hour after we had originally left at the beginning of that summer.
		So I then experienced second summers of 71, second summers of 72 in which different life events occurred.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Asheville, North Carolina, you're on with Andy Bichago.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Asheville, North Carolina, going once.
		Going twice.
		Oh, you are there.
		Sorry, I missed you, buddy.
		You were just a little late.
		Trenton, New Jersey, you're on here with my guest.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I was hoping your guest could describe in detail the clothes that you were wearing, possibly, when he met you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The clothes I was wearing.
unidentified		The clothes Art was wearing?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Standard sort of technical clothes of era, you know, with a basic pair of pants and a tailored shirt with a pen holder, just sort of the techie look of 1971.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		It did look like art, and the individual did possess a kind of an auguste personality like art possesses, but he also kind of backed off and flirted pretty assertively with our very beautiful facilitator, Lane Gallagher.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With me.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		And she actually softened up, and I'm convinced that she didn't bring him up on report.
		But then again, that's not this art bell.
		That's the art bell on that timeline.
		But it was just conventional engineering-like clothing of that era.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, the art bell on this timeline remembers being like that for sure.
		On Skype, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello, Andy.
		By the way, that caller who was talking about the blacksmith was making a joke about a Back to the Future movie, the final Back to the Future movie, where he went and he talked about having a train.
		He was yanking your chain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I can't resist.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen it, so I can't comment.
unidentified		Exactly.
		I've often wondered about the time travel thing.
		Shouldn't those of us who aren't going anywhere be bumping into time travelers here and there?
		In other words, wouldn't there be a cumulative effect of all these more and more people doing this and more and more people bumping into them such that it would kind of become more known?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how we would know we're bumping into them, but that postulate, which comes up often, I think it was offered perhaps by Stephen Hawking even to debunk time travel, depends on the blithe assertion, the blithe corollary that time travel will become a widespread function in the future.
		I oppose that as a matter of law policy and philosophy, and I would actually enforce that ban as president because clearly, as I say often on Facebook, mass time travel by mass people on mass timelines would produce mass chaos.
		So in fact, the reality of the externalities of having some people time traveling, for example, for the U.S. government, is that we would want it to remain a resource, an opportunity that would be limited in access by the public, or we would undermine the fundaments of society.
		So the evidence really supports the notion that time travel per se will remain sequestered tightly within government circles.
		But what I'm advocating is the declassification and deployment of Tesla teleportation for real-time transport, which wouldn't involve an offset in time, but merely a more efficient way of getting from point A to point B. All right, Andrew, listen, we're out of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything you want to promote?
		Facebook pages, web pages, your book, your movies, someday?
		What would you like to promote?
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		I'd just like to say it was a pleasure to finally appear with you and also to drop my quantum bombshell.
		I just really enjoyed the broadcast.
		I think it was a classic.
		And I just want to say that I'm so grateful to finally be on with you and to get so far into the material.
		I really don't have anything to promote except maybe my Facebook group, Project Pegasus, where a lot of my discourse on time travel goes on.
		And I will fight for the declassification of teleportation if the American people in their wisdom elect me their president.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, good luck with that and the Donald and Hillary and all the obstacles in front of you.
		Thank you very much for being here, Andrew, and looking forward to, I'm sure, another program one day.
		Take care, my friend.
andrew basiago ▲ ● ▼		Take care, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Ah, that's the way to round out a week, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert to all the time zones in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yikes.

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