Michael Rugg, co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum and expert on Sasquatch, traces his obsession to a 1950 childhood sighting near Northern California’s Eel River, later validated by his mother. He dismisses the Patterson-Gimlin film’s "third person" claims as hoax attempts while upholding its 53-second anomaly as credible evidence, citing Bill Munns’ book and decades of artifact collection—from early Abominable Snowman clippings to 12,000-year-old Indonesian "littlefoot" skeletons. Melba Ketchum’s DNA research suggests a hybrid species with a 60,000-year-old lineage, though Rugg warns against conflating Bigfoot with UFOs or dimensional beings. Despite skepticism about intentional encounters—like the 1890 Oregon miners’ dismembered remains—he advises meditation and caution, noting their musky scent and potential infrasound use. Ultimately, he argues Sasquatch’s existence is undeniable, but humanity must approach it with respect and scientific rigor before further exposure risks their survival. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's plentiful time zones.
Peter Everhard up in Anchorage, who does the advertising.
If you're interested in advertising, that's the guy to get hold of.
And advertising on here is very productive because we don't have much of it.
So because we don't have much, what you do have obviously gets heard.
All right, so last night's show, I got one response of thousands that I really love, this particular one.
I mean, some loved it, some hated it.
It really went the whole gauntlet.
This one I enjoyed, though.
I enjoyed the debate last night.
I do have a suggestion for the Flat Earth Expedition to the Sun.
You know, that expedition, she says, where he says they prove irrefutably the sun is 3,000 miles above the flat earth.
He says they should go at night so no one gets hurt.
Oh, boy.
All right, from the anomalous, I watch them daily.com.
The complete Patterson Gimlin film footage.
Now, we've got some hot stuff up there tonight.
Reference Bigfoot.
And Anomalous says, be sure not to miss it because this is an absolute must see.
As Bigfoot evidence explains, very few people have ever watched the entire film, the Patterson film, ever before.
Already some people are seeing some inconsistencies or anomalies, most notably the presence of another person at 53 seconds into the footage to the far left.
The film jumps a bit, and the figure changes position, which rules out it being a tree stump, obviously.
Patterson and Gimlin have always insisted they were alone on the trip, so if that is a third person, who is it?
That's kind of an obvious duh, I would say.
We definitely have the right man to be talking about this with tonight.
His name is Michael Rugg.
That's R-U-G-G.
He is co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum, located in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California.
The purpose of this museum is to educate the public at large about the probability of Bigfoot and the current best guesses as to its inhabitants and its place in the natural world.
He's been collecting information and artifacts while studying known bipedal primates since the early 1950s.
So he's been at this a while.
When the first photos of unknown tracks on Mount Everest appeared in Western newspapers since 2003, he's dedicated his full-time attention to the mystery primate phenomenon via the Bigfoot Discovery Museum that he runs.
And I think we've got him on the line with us on the phone.
Well, you know, the beginning of that is really hard to nail down, but I think it probably has to do with having a sighting as a child.
I found that throughout my childhood, I had a particular fascination with apes, apes of all kinds.
I read every Tarzan novel cover to cover.
I used to want to go to the zoo all the time and hang out with the chimps and the gorillas and so on and so forth.
And then not too many years ago, I was reading an excerpt in, I think, one of John Green's books, and a lady was describing a sighting she had up in Northern California, and it made me have this flashback memory.
And the memory that flashed into my head was that I actually saw a Bigfoot.
And the way the story goes is it was in probably 1950, and I was with my parents, my mom and my dad.
And so the sighting happened because I strayed away from the camping.
My parents and I were camped on a beach on the Eel River up in Northern California.
Now, we were there because my dad once had a sawmill up in that area.
And so he knew the best fishing holes and swimming holes.
And even though our family had moved to the East Bay, down in the Bay Area, we would still go up to the Eel River to fish and hunt driftwood.
So it was one of those trips, and they were making breakfast on the camp stove, and I went wandering off by myself.
I should have announced to them, of course, I was leaving, but I didn't.
And I was following a trail that kind of hugged the river edge, but the road was blocked by brush and so forth.
There was brush on both sides of the path.
I pushed myself my way through the brush, stepped out into an open sandbar, and then I just, you know, kind of was scanning the horizon, looking around to see what I could see.
And as I turned back towards the forest, I realized that somebody else had stepped off the path, probably 10 yards ahead of me, and was standing there looking at me.
And this fellow was extremely tall.
I remember noting that, thinking if you stacked my mom and dad up, they would not measure up to this man.
And he was covered in long reddish-brown hair.
And I had a very good look at him.
It was about 5.36 in the morning.
The sun was up.
There was no brush between us.
There he was.
And as I was making eye contact for a couple of seconds, I hear my mother screaming, Mikey, where are you?
So being a good son, I dropped everything and I ran back to the campsite, notified my mom that I was all right, and then said, why don't you guys come and see the big hairy man?
She actually, she came to live with me about the same time that I started the Bigfoot Museum.
She was 96 at that point and was in need of help.
So I took care of her until she died at 102.
And when she first moved in, she was still pretty lucid.
And so I asked her, you know, when was the last time we went up to Humboldt and went fishing and so forth?
And she said, oh, well, that would have been prior to 1952.
Now, when I had my flashback, I was kind of reticent to admit it to anybody.
I kept it to myself because I had my own doubts.
And I have found now interviewing hundreds and hundreds of different witnesses, it's quite common for people to doubt themselves because, you know, the nature of this phenomenon.
So I didn't really mention it.
And so I asked my mother, do you recall, you know, me telling you of seeing a hairy man on the beach up there?
And she said, no, I don't remember that.
But what she did was she established that the timing would have been around 1950, 51.
And so it makes sense that I would have forgotten such a thing because my original thought was, oh, I must have been 10 years old after my father's heart attack when I saw that thing.
And that didn't make sense.
How could I have forgotten such a thing?
And when I was 10 years old, that would be 1956.
By then, people were talking about the abominable snowman, so it wouldn't have been something that I had no reference for.
But when I saw this thing, I didn't have a name for it.
I didn't have any way of knowing what it was because it wasn't something within my sphere.
And it wasn't until a couple of years later when the announcement of the Abominable Snowman footprints went around the world and started the whole Mr. Primate thing.
Life magazine, of course, did a big article about it.
It was all the news.
The abominable snowman.
And I didn't, you know, when I heard about that, I didn't make a connection with my memory.
Oh, because I forgot to mention when I asked my parents to come and see the Bigfoot that I had observed, they went with me, and when we got there, of course, it wasn't there.
And so they proceeded to tell me, don't worry, don't be afraid.
My guest is Mike Rubb, co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Museum, actually, in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and that's probably where Bigfoot would be.
Question was, the abominable snowman and Bigfoot, they do seem, you know, on the face of them, sorry about that, like the same creatures.
One in a cold place, one, I don't know, maybe in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
Well, they certainly are both mystery primates, animals that are seen by indigenous peoples and described and denied by science.
So they have that in common.
Also, the descriptions are similar.
And one of the misconceptions, of course, about the Bomble Snowman is that they're white.
They're always depicted looking like a white ape.
And most of the individuals who have seen them and described them, the great majority of them, have described them as black or brown or reddish, you know, similar colors to the Bigfoot and to other apes.
And then, of course, there are some individuals that are born white, you know, have pink eyes and so forth.
I'm supposed to be one of those.
But I think that what the Yeti or the bombless snowman is, is an ape that lives in high-altitude mountains below the snow line.
Most apes and other primates do not live in the snow.
There's only one monkey I know that does.
And the rest pretty much stay out of the snow.
And so I think it's an ape that has developed the ability to cross mountain passes through the snow by walking upright.
And I picture a Yeti as putting his hands up as soon as he gets in the snow, walking upright until he's to the next valley on the other side of the ridge.
And then as soon as he enters the forest again, he gets back down on all fours.
And the reason for that is because of the footprints.
The archetypal footprint of the Obambla snowman has a big toe that sticks off to the side of the foot, accompanied by another semi-large toe and then three normal-looking toes, kind of three side by side.
Whereas Sasquatch tracks look more like giant flat-footed human tracks.
Okay, so a lot of people believe that man slowly came up in our evolution from, frankly, at one point, all fours, and then we stood up straight and walked.
Does that make Bigfoot or the abominable snowman, does that make them some sort of ancestral relationship to us?
Maybe one that, I don't know, stopped or slowed down while we kept going?
Well, there's a whole bunch of different possibilities.
Think about this Bigfoot thing and the Yeti thing.
It is indeed a global phenomenon.
People have been reporting these things from all over the world ever since the beginning of oral history.
It's something that's always been there.
And I think it's because in the history of the evolution of humans, we have had ancestors that coexisted alongside us.
In other words, when we evolve from one animal into a new one through a mutation, the original progenitor animal doesn't just suddenly disappear.
They continue to exist, and now there's a new one coexisting.
Now, if those two, as they evolve and develop, if the new one somehow goes into competition with the original progenitor species, then they may supplant them through what's called the survival of the fittest.
But I think that with the current condition and with as many people now involved in Bigfoot hunting, so we call it, I think that they may become endangered.
As more people are willing to believe that they exist, there, I think, are going to be more people who want to go out and shoot one.
I heard another story from a local man who had a father had a friend who was a mountain man.
His name was Breiner, Elmer Breiner.
And he hunted grizzly bear for a living.
And he, around 1900, was at the mouth of the Pitt River where it met the Sacramento.
That's before Lake Shesta was put there.
And he took aim and shot a grizzly bear in the back of the head.
And as he watched it fall down, he had a good kill.
He started working his way down the canyon wall to harvest this bear.
He had an Indian companion with him named Cannonball who was on the other side of the river.
He went across in a little cable contraption and got to the side.
And the two of them got to this kill about the same time.
And the man who told me the story was a former Navy SEAL.
He lives here locally in the valley.
And he said that he couldn't help but kind of choke up and get a little tear in his eye when he was telling me this because Elmer Bryner cried like a baby because he said that when they rolled that grizzly over, it had a human face and human hands and feet.
You see, the phenomenon, as I mentioned earlier, being a global thing that's been going on for years, forever, so to speak, it's not going to be defined by any one particular species of animal, I don't think.
I think that there are, see, because what we're dealing with here are citing reports.
The Bigfoot phenomena is largely anecdotal.
We have the Patterson film, we have some footprints and things like that, but mostly what we have are eyewitness testimony.
And that you can take and use as a database, and that tells us a lot of stuff about these animals.
If you were somewhere outside your museum, had a gun in your hand, a good high-powered rifle, and Bigfoot was standing, oh, I don't know, 50 yards away from you, would you raise your rifle and fire?
Or would you cradle your rifle and make little cooing sounds or something trying to get Bigfoot to come your way?
Donald Trump was the only one of 10 Republican presidential candidates debating tonight in Cleveland who won't pledge to support the eventual GOP nominee.
Trump says he intends to win.
Trump also said he had no time for political correctness when asked if he was concerned that some of his remarks in the past might be offensive to women.
He also joked that the remarks were directed at actor Rosie O'Donnell.
Unlike the feisty prime time debate between the top polling tier of the GOP candidates at a debate in Cleveland, the seven other candidates considered at the bottom of the polls faced off before a largely empty arena.
The forum was less hostile.
Most of the criticism was directed at the Democrats.
A man who claimed to be Tarzan has been arrested after he allegedly climbed a tree and tried to get into the monkey exhibit at a Southern California zoo.
A zookeeper called 911 Tuesday morning to report that a shirtless man plastered in mud had climbed about 20 feet into a tree at the bird exhibit at the Santa Ana Zoo.
He had left by the time the police arrived, but was taken into custody a short time later.
On a previous Dark Matter News report, we'd reported about a Jeep that hackers were able to take over.
Now Tesla Motors appears to be a victim of such attacks as well.
On Thursday, it has sent a software patch to address security flaws in the Tesla Model S sedan that could allow hackers to take control of the vehicle.
Cybersecurity researchers said they had taken control of a Model S and turned it off at a low speed, one of six significant flaws they found that could allow hackers to take control of the vehicle.
Art Bell had a special guest last night who believes that the Earth is flat.
And our roving reporter, John Gee, is out on the field with a special report for Dark Matter News.
unidentified
Hello, this is John Gee with Dark Matter News.
I am here on assignment waiting on Aerospace Engineer Pulitzer Prize winner.
He is an anonymous Flatlander.
We are trying to prove that the Earth is flat.
And we're waiting here today on assignment to talk to an airline pilot that goes by the handle Skip Trace.
He is a confirmed flat planet believer.
He is anti-earthball, and he has set his sights on setting sail against this giant flat landscape he calls Flirt.
Equipping Skip's plane with new flat lens cameras that were developed specially by Mr. Anonymous Bob, the leader of the anti-earthballers.
Anonymous Bob stated that we are subject to one of the world's greatest and most advanced conspiracy theories ever, that we've all been duped into believing that the Earth, not round, but it is flat indeed.
We would like to issue a challenge to Mr. Anonymous Bob.
We'd like for you to prove that the Earth is flat.
Anonymous Bob, the gentleman that says that the Earth is flat, has been tracked down and was found to be working for U.S. Globe.
He felt that it was the best place to start, making a difference from the inside.
Anonymous John about Earthballers, he said it doesn't take anything to believe that the Earth is round.
It might take just a little bit more than facts, maybe even some faith, to believe that it's flat.
Anonymous Bob says that we have been duped to believe that we are living on a planet that is not round.
That's not what he said, but that's what he meant.
He was about as confusing as the last 10 seconds of this first cast here.
But I do know one thing.
I'm hungry.
And when I get hungry, I reach out for some flatbread.
It seems that facts are not important, or physics, or even the basics of science, to prove that the Earth is not round, but indeed flat.
According to Anonymous John, a guest last night on Art Bell, but I'd like to ask him this one question.
We don't need science.
We don't need math.
Just give us some hard proof.
Find someone who will fly a plane, who will gas that plane and fly it all the way across this flat Earth with a flat camera, something that will take flat panoramic pictures.
I'm going to set this up even better because if you think about Mike, Mike Rugg, the curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum of the mountains there in Santa Cruz, and you think about his position, then this question gets a lot, lot, lot harder.
If you think about Mike Rugg, again, who owns a museum.
The question I'm posing, and Mike, you can picture him now.
He just maybe went out for a smoke or maybe he's quit.
I don't know.
But he's out outside the museum when it's closed and late.
He's got a 30-odd six With him at least.
And oh my god, it couldn't be 50 yards away.
It gotta be like 10 feet tall, covered in brown for the meanest looking thing you ever saw.
Now he can either raise that 06, or he can cradle it and try to talk to Bigfoot and communicate with it like a civilized person.
But then on the other hand, you've got to think, well, Mike owns the biggest museum of its sort, probably in the world.
And if he had a stuffed Bigfoot in the museum, they'd be coming from miles round.
Actually, there'd be Japanese tourists traipsing through your museum at whatever the charge is to traps currently.
That's the one that has no parents and is thousands of years old.
There's only one of, people think there's only one Bigfoot.
The mythical Bigfoot also includes, of course, hoaxes.
But there's the biological Bigfoot as well.
Now the big question, is the biological Bigfoot completely 100% biological?
Or does it sometimes fade over into the paranormal realm?
Some witnesses would tell you so, and some of my peers would immediately shun those witnesses, would tell them to be quiet and go away, that they don't want to hear about it.
I don't do that.
We try to take in every bit of data that comes our way because anecdotes are anecdotes.
And if you start picking and choosing which ones you want to listen to and which ones you don't, then I don't think you're doing science.
And we're trying to do the right thing and do it the right way and come up with some truths.
So paranormal is considered as well as everything else.
But I'll have to say that right now I'm concentrating on the biological Bigfoot and I will continue to do so until I feel that there's something haywire.
Let me only stop long enough, please, so everybody can catch up with this.
When you go to artbell.com, at the very top, when you get on the page, folks, you'll see a picture of Mike who kind of looks like – I was offered a job as a professional Santa.
There you have it.
He kind of looks like Santa.
Click on that, and then you'll get to the pictures I'm talking about.
We have the photographs, and there are parts of the tooth, like I said, still in existence in two different DNA labs, both of which supposedly we're going to test them.
When Brian Sykes did his study, he opted to use only hairs, even though they asked for other things.
And I didn't put the picture up, but there is a cranium that's been reconstructed that goes with it.
The whole skull has been reconstructed by Grover Krantz.
And they had a complete occipital bone, so that means they had a very good indication of the cranium size.
The cranium is nearly as big as a human cranium.
It has the beginnings of a sagittal crest, a little bit of a bump down the center of the forehead, and that bony ridge around the eyes that you see on the Patterson creature.
Right.
That you'll find on the Meganthropus skull.
And you'll find this gigantic twice the normal size jaw.
That's all one tooth you're seeing from the different angles.
And so what you're seeing there is the fact that the crown, the crown has worn off the top.
You can see that in the side view that shows the tooth interior.
And you can see the dental material down both sides.
Crown is worn off.
And then you look down at the roots and you see those are broken off.
And then if you look at that top view, you can see that also almost a half the tooth is missing.
So that tooth, the way it is right now, when you look at it compared to the human tooth up there in that other photo with the mandibles, it looks pretty big.
But if you were to restore that to its full size, it would be then obviously twice the size of that human tooth.
All right, so we're talking about an obviously really large, probably very scary creature here.
You know, I've got to go back to this question just one last time.
I mean, really, Mike, if you had the chance to have a stuffed, real McCoy, full no question about it Bigfoot in your museum, you could really turn that down in the name of...
I've been telling scientists for quite some time about the little hairy people that live in the forest.
They're described as being three feet in height, completely grown, running around on two legs and having no apparent signs of culture of any kind.
And they call them the Abugogo.
So this is another typical Bigfoot myth, because the Bigfoot around the world come in different sizes.
Not only are they described as being particularly large and robust, but there are also grass aisle varieties, little ones, littlefoots.
And those are spotted in Africa and Central America, North America, and most particularly on islands.
So here's an island, and some scientists went there from Australia, and of course they ignored the tales of the little wild men in the forest.
They didn't go looking for living beings.
But they did find a big cave that interested them, so they dug down in this cave, and lo and behold, here's 13 little skeletons of three-foot-tall diminutive people.
And these people have skulls that look like miniature Homo erectus people.
And some of the bones are 90,000 years old.
Some of the bones are only 13,000 or 12,000 years old.
The bones are in the fossil record, and they are in universities and other collections around the world.
And they are considered to be members of our family tree.
They are described in various ways as Australopithecus, Homo erectus, Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo adultu, Homo hydrobrigensis, Homo neandothalensis.
In other words, if one of those wild men from our past, you know, Lucy, the little one from Africa that was 4 million years old, walking on two legs.
Well, that's why they come and visit people's camps in the middle of the night, you know, looking for some of those sweets and meats.
Otherwise, they stay away.
I think the Bigfoot figured out about 300 years ago here in North America that the only way they were going to survive as a species would be by hiding.
When we opened the museum here in Santa Cruz 10 years ago, I didn't think of this as a Bigfoot area.
I knew that the Bigfoot would have been here in the past because it's a beautiful place to be.
And I was quite sure there had been Bigfoot here, and I'd heard a couple of random stories.
But I figured that they would be long gone from Santa Cruz because once the university came in and the college was built and so on, and I had a lot more people coming and staying, and Silicon Valley put together, we became a bedroom community for Silicon Valley.
There's tourists, there's lumberjacks, and all this stuff.
Bigfoot would have exited this place a long time ago.
And then, as soon as the word hit the street that the Bigfoot Museum was here, the locals started coming in and telling me they're seeing them in their backyards right now.
Well, you know, there's a lot of ways of looking at this.
Yes, some would say that, oh, it's mass hysteria caused by the existence of your museum.
But I would also say, well, the museum is immediately recognized as a safe harbor for people who have had experiences like this who normally get ridiculed by everyone they try to share that with.
And almost to the person, people who come in this museum and tell me their Bigfoot event and their encounter, they preface it by saying, you know, I don't talk about this much because when I do, I get ridiculed.
And that keeps people, Mike, from not just not talking about Bigfoot, but not talking about all kinds of paranormal experiences that they have.
They're afraid they're going to, I mean, whether it's a business problem, you know, or they're worried about people coming to gently put on a little restraining white thing and take them away.
One way or the other, they don't talk about it.
Mike, hold tight.
We'll be right back.
Mike Rugg is my guest, co-founder of Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Museum in the Santa Cruz Mountains, where I hear tell that Bigfoot's been seen from the high desert and the great American Southwest.
We had occasion to record something very similar to that, where after a while the sound didn't even seem organic because what we recorded was a Bigfoot that was howling in siren-like fashion.
And coyotes and dogs from all around joined it and started screaming along with it.
Pretty soon you had the various vocal harmonics clashing and the echoing, and the whole thing took on a metallic sound, just as the one you just played did.
And the Bigfoot does what other apes do and what people would do.
If you decided that you had a disagreement with the person that moved in next door, you know, you would have options as to how to deal with that.
One of the way would be you could start hassling that person, throw rocks at him, and have your dog poop in his yard or, you know, do all these negative things.
Or you could just kind of be quiet and held back and try not to disrupt and try to introduce yourself and be friendly.
You know, I've heard stories like this over the years.
There have been stories put up where they show a bunch of men at the films, you know, in the mountains prior to Patterson being there, and they claim that there was a murder, a mass murder, and all these people buried the Sasquatch.
There's been all kinds of wild and crazy stories told about that thing.
But I can tell you this.
If you get a book written by Bill Munns, which was just put out at the end of last year, it's the result of many years of work that he's done on the Patterson film.
And Bill Munns has 30 years experience in Hollywood as an artist, a makeup artist, and what have you.
And he has designed and built costumes for movies, monsters.
The swamp thing being one of his more notables.
And he's the man who made the giant depiction of gigantopithecus that you see online everywhere.
Bill Munns.
Well, he got a little bit of money and a grant to go ahead and take his skill set and apply it to the Patterson film.
And he had no iron and fire.
He didn't care one way or another if the Patterson film was real or not and whether Bigfoot was real or not.
But he knew he had the right credentials to figure that out.
So he got more than one copy of the Patterson film, a total of three copies, scanned them into high-definition video, put them in his computer, and started analyzing the film.
And he has now put this book out, which has many, many pages of drawings, diagrams, photographs of body parts from the Patterson film and why it's not a costume.
And he has proven in that book, in my opinion, unequivocally, that the Patterson film is not a costume.
Now, he doesn't say it's a Bigfoot.
That's not the point.
All he's saying is that is not a costume.
That is a being that you're seeing that looks just like what you see.
And he has proven that in writing with many diagrams, many models, many proofs, mathematical equations, and all the stuff they call science.
And so that is officially a statement that's been put out for peer review now.
So if someone wants to say the Patterson film is fake, then they have to do it in writing and they have to respond to his work and prove that he's wrong.
No, no, because I've heard so many stories like that.
Oh, okay.
And it turns out to be, you know, it really has nothing to do with it.
What people do is they reach for things that they can bring up about the film that will cause you to have doubts about the credibility of the two witnesses, Patterson and Gimlin.
Well, the thing is that the two witnesses, Patterson and Gimlin, their story has never changed.
And even though they have contradicted each other a couple of ways here and there, it's only human nature because no two people see anything the same way.
A rumor that there had been by Patterson's wife, I guess, or at least knowledge of it, a deathbed confession by somebody, that the Sasquatch in that film was actually his wife in a gorilla costume.
Yeah, this is an urban myth that I have to work with almost every week in the museum.
I have to tell people about this because of the way the news media handle it.
A man named Ray Wallace died around the beginning of the current century.
He died, and his family went into his Stuff, the boxes in the basement, and they found all this Bigfoot paraphernalia.
And they knew that Ray liked to tell Bigfoot stories and that he was considered the irascible, lovable Bigfoot guy, Ray Wallace, who always had a Bigfoot story to tell.
And everybody pretty much knew that he kind of made it up as he went along.
And he went and carved fake wooden tracks, and then he made molds from them and made plaster casts, which he sold to tourists, claiming they were genuine Bigfoot tracks.
He filmed his wife in a gorilla suit and sold stills from the film to people, saying these are actual photographs of a Bigfoot.
And I've seen a few of those pictures actually still on the internet, and some people still think they're real.
And Wallace was a faker, okay?
But he was known to be a faker and only fooled a few of the researchers at the beginning.
And then they caught on, and nobody was fooled anymore by Wallace.
But when his family saw all his stuff, they decided to give the news media a call, and they announced that Bigfoot was dead because their dad had created the entire Bigfoot myth single-handedly in 1958 in Northern California, Ray Wallace.
Now, when ABC News told that story on the evening news, I was watching, and as they were telling the story about Ray Wallace and the deathbed confession that he filmed his wife in a costume, they put the Patterson-Gimlin film up on the screen.
Not related at all to the Wallace story, had nothing to do with it, and taught everyone that there was a deathbed confession.
There are people who claim to have witnessed Bigfoot burials and who claim that the Bigfoot do indeed bury their dead.
And should they have a stillborn child, they'll bury the child.
But of course, a great many people in the research community, anytime a person claims to have habituated a Bigfoot and got to know it and spoke to it or spent time with it in any way, shape, or form, they immediately poo-poo that stuff.
That's considered bogus.
So your Bigfoot believers, most of them don't even want to talk about UFOs and other paranormal stories.
But being now 70 years old, having been, you know, for 50-some years a hobbyist with this, in other words, Bigfoot was my main interest when I wasn't busy.
And then the last 10 years now, all I have been doing is Bigfoot.
So I think about this when I go to bed.
I'm still thinking about it when I get up in the morning.
I go to my computer.
I check in and see what everybody else is doing.
Then we have people come in here from 11 to 6 all day long.
They come in here and they want an education.
They want to know facts.
And they come in here wanting to share experiences.
Quite often those people come in and they won't even talk to me until everybody leaves.
Then they'll come in and say, I've been wanting to talk to you about this, but I was afraid I couldn't do it with other people around.
And then they'll spill their guts some kind of outrageous story that would make most people just roll their eyes and invoke woo.
So I hear all kinds of things, including stories about little gray men with large eyes, abduction scenarios, ghost stories, and stories of other strange creatures.
I've heard it all.
And from 1980 to 1994, I read every UFO book that I could get my hands on, and I went to every conference I could go to.
I met eyewitnesses.
I talked to authors.
And I realized that I've got to get into this UFO thing, too, because there's an overlap with the Bigwood thing.
And then in 1994, I decided, you know what?
This is too dark because the UFO thing is about night skies.
Night skies is about military.
And there's all these shenanigans going on.
It's like the X-Files when you get into UFO stuff.
You know, I had heard through Rumor Mill that some radio DJ who was kind of in competition with you had set this up and did it as a prank to investigate your something.
And I'm sure that some of that stuff has gone on, but this man was on more than just one show with me.
I can absolutely get, and plus, I absolutely had the map.
We had legal consultations that went on behind the scenes.
This was no prank, I guarantee you.
However, even today, Mike, if I had that map, I would still tell my official story because I will protect him until the day he decides what he's going to do about this.
And, you know, it just really, the only thing I say about that is when you've done this long enough and we've heard enough stories, and when you've been on the planet long enough so that you learn about how people operate and how stories are, you know, it's not real difficult.
And I'll tell you what, I've had, well, three or four different occasions where people tried to pull the wool over my eyes, where they tried to pull a hoax on me.
And I think one of them was hoping that I would make a big deal out of it and then he could step forward and discredit me by proving that he had hoaxed me.
In all of these fields, whether it's a baby that looks like an alien or it's a sighting or it's a creature or it's a yes, this occurs all the time to exactly do that, to crush somebody.
Yeah, I know Linda Molenhow ran into that when she was working on an HBO special, and Richard Doty told her he was going to give her a movie, and then when the time came, he said, who are you?
I don't know what you're talking about.
And I know that she had some problems for a while because of that incident.
You know, I was at Stanford at the same time as Linda.
All right, I have one serious question for you before we begin taking calls, and it's going to come up after the break.
And we kind of touched on it earlier, but didn't do it real service, and that is, if you want to have a Bigfoot encounter, if you actually want to see one of these things close up, what do you have to do to do it?
Now, I guess whether it's paranormal or not paranormal will bear on your answer.
Anyway, what I'd like you to do is think about it during the break.
Malaysia's Transport Ministry said Thursday that more plane parts have washed up on the same island as a wing part believed with varying degrees of certainty to be from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
Those new items, which the Malaysians described as pieces of windows, seat cushions, and aluminum, will be tested by the same international team of experts that is examining a piece of wing that Malaysia said Wednesday is definitely from MH370.
Though the Malaysian Prime Minister announced that the wing part called a flavor on is certainly from MH370, other officials have expressed more caution and say that more testing is needed.
The Boeing 777 carrying 239 people disappeared on a flight from Koela Lumpur, Malaysia to Beijing on March 8th, 2014.
Scientists have just found the biggest thing in the universe, a vast mysterious ring 5 billion light years across.
It's so big that the researchers have no idea why it exists, and it contradicts all current models of the universe.
The vast, mysterious object is reminiscent of the halo rings in the hit science fiction game series.
The ring of nine vast cataclysmic explosions is about 7 billion light years from Earth and covers an area of sky more than 70 times the diameter of the full moon.
Each of the gamma-ray bursts releases as much energy in a few seconds as the sun will do over its 10 billion year lifetime.
Gamma-ray bursts, the most luminous events in the universe, are thought to be the result of massive stars collapsing into black holes.
It challenges current theories about the makeup of the universe, which sets a theoretical limit of 1.2 billion light years for the largest structures.
The team now wants to establish whether known processes of galaxy formation and large-scale structure could have led to the ring's creation.
If this proves not to be the case, astronomers will radically have to revise their theories about the evolution of the universe.
Got news tips, questions, or comments?
Visit darknewsmatters.com.
Crime sentencing has long been based on the present crime and sometimes the defendant's past criminal record.
In Pennsylvania, judges could soon consider a new dimension, the future.
Pennsylvania is on the verge of becoming one of the first states in the country to base criminal sentences not only on what crimes people have committed and been convicted of, but also on whether they are deemed likely to commit additional crimes.
As early as next year, judges there could receive statistically derived tools known as risk assessments to Help them decide how much prison time, if any, to assign.
Centuries after raging millions, the plague has come to modern-day Colorado, leaving a devastated family behind after their loved ones succumbed to the disease.
The Pueblo City County Health Department announced Wednesday that an adult had died from the plague, a disease that has a long and sordid history, albeit not one typically associated with modern times or developed countries like the United States.
The agency said in a press release that the individual may have contracted the disease from fleas from a dead rodent or animal.
It's the first such case of someone in Pueblo County contracting the plague since 2004.
A dead prairie dog in the western part of Pueblo County is the only animal thus far confirmed to have the plague in the immediate area.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found in a report released April 30th that a pit bull was at the heart of a plague outbreak that sickened four people last year.
That report was especially significant in that it suggested that there might be a human-to-human transmission.
That hasn't happened in the United States since 1924.
The dog-to-human transmission was unexpected, according to Colorado's Tri-County Health Department.
The team that investigated the case said they could only find one other case of dog-to-human transmission in the medical literature.
That was a 2009 case in China.
The CDC says about seven people get the plague every year in the United States, over 80% of which has been in the bubonic form.
While it can be life-threatening, with modern medicines such as antibiotics and antimicrobials, it is usually not deadly, as it was in the Middle Ages when millions died.
I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified
Dark Matter News
Dark Matter News Want to take a ride?
Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket when you call 1-952.
He's as close to an expert on Bigfoot as anybody can be.
He runs a Bigfoot Museum up in the mountains in Santa Cruz.
He's the co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project.
And so he knows as much as a person is likely to know, and we're opening the line.
So here is the deal.
Public line, area code 952-225-5278.
Our Skype lines are as follows.
In North America, America, and Canada, it would be M-I-T-D 51.
M-I-T-D-51.
Outside of North America, rest of the world, anywhere, it's M-I-T-D55.
M-I-T-D 55.
And back to Mike for one question just before we get going, and that is, if you were to sit down and write a manual or maybe just a PDF on how to have a Bigfoot encounter, what would it sound like?
How would you advise me if I wanted to have an encounter, and I really don't like, but if I did, yes, how would you advise me?
Well, I would tell you, first of all, that you have to do your homework, and that entails finding an area that's close to where you are, because the farther away, of course, the less chance you've got to go there.
Find an area as close as you can that has a history of Bigfoot sightings.
Now, for me, that's easy because I have a museum with a map on the wall, and I have people coming in here all the time and telling me they saw one in their backyard.
And so when that happens, I go to their backyard, and I hang out there and see if something happens.
I've done that numerous times, and I've had things happen.
And so if they came to the Santa Cruz area, for example, and they came in here, I could show them on the map where these sightings have happened in the past and over and over and over again.
And when they're seen many times in one place, it kind of gives you a clue as to the fact they might be there.
Well, the paranormal aspect, what I would do about that is I would say that when you go out and you're trying to contact Bigwood, then what you would preferably do rather than caulking and cleaning your gun or shining a bright light into the forest is that you would sit there quietly in the dark and either meditate or play a musical instrument or do something to try and get into something like an alpha state and
And final, I promise, last question before I give you to the audience, and that is, do you think that these creatures can sense, well, I'm going to have one more question, darn it, can sense whether you have goodwill or bad intent?
And so, yeah, I mean, if a human being is capable of getting feelings like that and having warnings, then, you know, you can be sure the Sasquatch can do it.
They're more in touch with the natural side of things.
A Sasquatch, normal circumstances, alone in the woods, is going to smell kind of like a barnyard animal.
You're going to be able to smell his sweat.
You're going to be able to smell other things that are clinging to his hair.
And he would have a musky animal-like smell.
But this stench that takes away your breath and can cause you to be a little light-headed and confused, that is a function of the fight-or-flight scenario.
So when the Bigfoot is stressed, afraid, to put it in simple terms, and he's got to either pull your arms off or run away, he has this odor that comes out.
Now, Diane Fossey reported this with the mountain gorillas.
Two mountain gorillas have a musky smell, but when two of them are fighting over a harem, they both put out a putrid odor.
And that odor, I would say, would be like the worst human BO you've ever smelt, combined with a touch of skunkiness that had rolled in a dead animal and crawled around in a sewer.
It's a very strong smell.
And, you know, and it has a quality to, like I say, take your breath away.
I think that they also indulge in a little infrasound.
They hit you with a low-frequency sound that causes a wave of fear to go over your body.
I was listening to a replay a few weeks ago of your interview with Bugs, and I will say that is the most convincing story I've ever heard of anyone out, any Bigfoot story I've ever heard.
Oh, yeah.
I did a little bit.
I was just piqued my curiosity so much that I did some online research.
And similar to what Ed was saying earlier, there was this radio personality in West Texas named Ed Hale, who after he was on the radio and people noticed his voice sounded very similar to Bugs out at him.
And he did, I don't know if he, you may know if he really is Bugs, but he admitted to it.
But he says that the feds came to his house, took him out, made him dig up the bodies, and he no longer has any evidence.
She was first approached by Josh Gates, Destination Truth television show.
He gave her some hairs, purported to be from a Yeti.
She tested them and said that they were definitely anomalous and seemed to react positive with human markers.
She didn't expect that, so she suddenly became interested in the Bigfoot stuff for the first time.
So then David Pilates went to her and gave her another sample, which she found to be strange and seemed to be in the human category, but not a human.
And she thought, well, we should really start to look into this.
So she put out the word, and I, amongst many, many other people across North America and Canada, provided her with sample material that we had gathered.
I sent her, through a long process, part of the tooth that we have on the website there.
She got some of the center of the pulp out of the tooth in a sealed sterile envelope turned over to her.
She never did use it, though, in her tests, but she did get over 110 samples.
She vetted those down to about the best 30 or so, I don't know exactly.
And then gave the samples to three different forensics labs on three different campuses and asked them to pull full genome sequences.
And luckily, a man named Wally Hurston was willing to pay the bill to get this done.
This costs thousands of dollars.
That's why it's never been done before.
And so they pulled full genomes according to the paper that she wrote on it and published for peer review.
And they came up, all of them with the same results.
It was a blind study.
They didn't know what they were looking for.
And they asked her, What is this stuff you gave us?
It seems to be half human and half something we can't identify.
And I want to note that not only is the quality of the audio that we get, no matter who it would be, even a trucker as you just heard, going down the highway, but the intellectual quality of the callers is also really off the charts.
So thank you all.
Let's go to Everett, Washington, Northwest Country.
When we're here talking here in my studio, every word we say is going to come out about a minute later on your device, whether it be a phone, a computer, some sort of pad, whatever it is you're listening on.
God knows you can listen on about anything.
So the moment you actually connect with the show, you have got to turn that off.
And if you don't, you're going to be hopelessly confused and sound like that man.
And you don't want to do that.
He was obviously a bright guy.
He just couldn't take the fact that he was being delayed like that.
Let's go to Flagstaff, Arizona, and hope for the best.
unidentified
Hello.
Hey, Art.
First and foremost, I want to welcome you back, the godfather of talk radio.
To Mike, I don't know if he's familiar or not with the Southon Project out of Idaho State University, and if he thinks that the way that we're going to find or identify Bigfoot, not through use of weapons or use of stocking, but through drones or this 48-foot-long blimp That they're using with night vision, scopes, everything.
Are we going to find it through technology in this modern world that we're living in?
I personally think that flying over a forest is not necessarily going to be that productive.
We have all kinds of downed planes that are lost in the mountains, and they have search groups out and rescue people looking for these planes.
They're flying around, and they can't find these planes.
That's because the tops of the trees provide an awful lot of cover, and so you're going to have to be looking down at areas that are open and uncovered.
And of course, you could go over an area, and with a thermal imager or something, in the middle of the night, and a stealthy blimp catch a glimpse of a susquez under the trees.
But I just don't think it's all.
unidentified
Some drones that are out there nowadays, especially using FLIR or looking infrared, I mean, you can pick up a signature of a missing child.
I think it's crazy out there with drones everywhere.
But a drone has been used by the BFRO.
They've tried that.
And the concept of putting a thermal on a drone and sending it out, as long as the drone isn't making a lot of noise, you could probably just assume that.
unidentified
So there might be a possibility that with the use of drones or with this Idaho State University Blimp, 48 for the Blimp, that we might be able to capture these images and be able to give this to the world, this evidence, this empirical evidence that we need to prove that this creature exists.
My guest is Michael Rugg, co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, and he knows a lot about this creature.
He's our guy.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified
Another day, goodbye.
Another day, goodbye.
Every time I think I've had enough, it's hard to let it go.
I used to be your roller don't know if the calls are right.
I need to find an answer on the road.
I used to be your heart for number one for the time to change all my work and done.
Cause I'm living free And still I don't need a freedom Midnight matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness like Art Bell.
And good luck in the future if you want to see Bigfoot.
I'm not sure why you would call to say you've never seen Bigfoot because that would comprise, I would think, a high, high percentage of the population.
So while I appreciate your call, I'm not sure about it.
Let's go to Fargo, North Dakota on the phone and say hi.
My question is for Mike regarding Sasquatch using not only spoken language, but also written language.
And when I say written language, I mean by like small stick arrangements in spoken language, I mean by their own language, which may be the Sierra recordings, which some are familiar with, but also there's many people that say, including myself, that they speak in our languages.
So I I know that Mike thinks that they are an archaic human, which I believe as such, and humans, well, they speak and they write.
Well, both the things he mentioned I'm familiar with.
There's a man named Scott Nelson who is a linguist by trade.
He teaches five languages at a small college in Missouri, among them ancient Persian.
He was a crypto-linguist in the Navy, where he was given special software that he used to listen to recordings of people speaking in any and any language.
And his job was to analyze those recordings of those conversations and try and figure out if there was any code in there, any secret messages being tried to be put across.
So what we have here is a linguist with a very deep set of skills, deeper than the average linguist.
And he heard some of the Sierra sounds, what they call the samurai sounds, where the Sasquatch is talking, and it sounds like John Belushi playing the samurai guy.
And so when he heard that, he was immediately piqued.
He had to hear more.
So he went to the two men who had the recordings, Ron Moorhead and Al Berry, and said, can I have the original tapes so I can feed it through my Navy software and then analyze it?
They said, oh my God, yes, you're just exactly the kind of person we've been looking for.
These tapes have been around for almost 50 years.
And so he took on the project, started listening to these tapes, and then he published a couple of papers for peer review stating that the Bigfoot have language.
And so we heard about this, and I mentioned it to a few of my science friends, and they, of course, made their inimitable remark about, well, just because the guy teaches language doesn't mean he's not a flake.
So I said, okay, well, then let's invite him out here in person so we can see if he's a flake or not.
So we had a conference, and I invited Scott Nelson here, and he struck me as anything but a flake.
He's a very nice man, easy to get to know.
He's very open about his work, very skilled as a linguist.
And he said that the Sasquatch tapes that he has been studying indicate that the Sasquatch speak with a basic Native American combined with a bit of Spanish, a little bit of pidgin English, a very small amount of just a dab of Chinese, and a lot of animal mimicry.
There was a recent discovery of some supposed bones that they believe Bigfoot may have been actually chewing on.
And I forget the name of the person who discovered them, but they have the bones and the actual marks on the bones or from an extremely large Homo sapien-type creature.
I was just wondering if you knew about that and if you had anything to say about it.
You know, I have to admit this is a story that I'm not up to date on.
I just recently heard something about this, and I can't speak from any knowledge of whether it's a credible story or not.
But I'll tell you what I've learned is anything on the internet, you can go ahead and flip a coin, and it's 50-50 if it's worth its weight at all, as far as the Bigfoot stuff.
And there was one of these things that migrated through Danville, Virginia.
And we've seen it so many times, and we tried to tell our parents about it, and they said it's just somebody in the big coat trying to scare you, that type thing.
Yes, well, I asked for sure what drugs she may have been experiencing.
She said, no, this all happened while she was completely sober.
Another man told me he saw a Bigfoot that was, well, he said, I don't know how to describe it, except that my headlights went right through it, but I could see its outline.
And I picture the Predator movie, you know, the creature while it's close.
Oh, yes.
And he had a witness with him in the car, and she claimed that she saw the Bigfoot kneeling at the side of the road before it went in front of the headlights, and she could see it, and it just looked like a normal flesh-and-blood Bigfoot.
Yeah, so my question is, there are literally millions of trail cameras out there everywhere, put by hunters, conservationists, game wardens, U.S. Forest Service.
Why haven't they caught something conclusive on trail cams?
Well, I think because they don't attempt to hide them.
They put the trail cam up on the tree just like they would for a deer or a cougar.
The deer comes walking along, walks right up to the trail cam, looks right at it, no big deal.
They don't have the intelligence to be able to consider that it might be, because it's a man-made device, some kind of a threat.
The sausage clutch, whether they're human or primate, either way, I think they can recognize a game camera as being man-made and not properly in the wooded environment and sticks out like a sore thumb.
I've had some business with him, and we have had some agreements and disagreements about Sasquatch.
And he wrote a book about missing people.
But in all the interviews that I've heard, when the interviewer tries to back him up against the wall and get him to say it's Bigfoot, my impression is that he says, no, I don't really think it's necessarily Bigfoot.
As a matter of fact, I think it has more to do with things like cattle mutilations.
And I don't think that he is saying in his books that Bigfoot is stealing all these people.
I think the Bigfoot are smart enough to know that if they pick us off one by one, one of these days we're going to get a wind on it, and then that's over for them.
I think they're smart enough to leave us alone.
That's what they've decided to do, and that's what they continue to do.
Now, that's not to say there might be a rogue Bigfoot who's got a thorn up his rear end or he has sexual desires for a particular person or something and goes nuts.
I mean, if people can do it, so could a Bigfoot.
So I can't say it's never going to happen, but I just don't think that's.
I just wondered about the probability or possibility, as the case may be, of using Google Earth or satellite imaging, some sort of photographic evidence from that perspective to sort of isolate or identify instances of Bigfoot.
Well, of course, you know, before you go, Google Earth takes pictures of the Earth, right?
But they're just sort of taken whenever they're taken.
Usually they're old pictures or, you know, a few months old at least.
And so you mean searching those?
I don't think there's enough definition in Google Earth presently to find them.
Certainly the military would be able to see them, no question of that.
But you're talking about whatever kind of modern technology we could apply to it.
unidentified
Right.
Totally agree.
I mean, if we could somehow isolate specific regions, which I think that we probably have, and I don't know, you're talking about vast quantities of land area, of course.
But I just wondered if there wouldn't be a more scientific way to sort of verify the existence of these creatures.
And it's been my opinion for quite some time that if you do the research, you find an area where you believe there is a Bigfoot presence, that if you could somehow fly over that area quietly in the middle of the night with a thermal imaging device, you could probably and possibly pick up the heat signature of these animals.
Then what I think you would have to have would be a platoon full of paratroopers with nets.
And you could then drop them down there and lasso one.
Japanese time, an American B-29 bomber, the Enola Gay, drops the world's first atom bomb over the city of Hiroshima.
Approximately 80,000 people are killed as a direct result of the blast, and another 35,000 are injured.
At least another 60,000 would be dead by the end of the year from the effects of the fallout.
U.S. President Harry S. Truman, discouraged by the Japanese response to the Potsdam Conference's demand for unconditional surrender, made the decision to use the atom bomb to end the war in order to prevent what he predicted would be a much greater loss of life were the United States to invade the Japanese mainland.
And so on August 5th, while a conventional bombing of Japan was underway, Little Boy, the nickname of one of the two atom bombs available for use against Japan, was loaded onto Lieutenant Colonel Paul W. Tibbett's plane on the Tinian Island in the Marianas.
Tibbets B-29, named the Enola Gay after his mother, left the island at 2.45 a.m. on August 6th.
Five and a half hours later, Little Boy was dropped, exploding 1,900 feet over a hospital and unleashing the equivalent of 12,500 tons of TNT.
The bomb had several inscriptions scribbled on its shell, one of which reads, Greetings to the Emperor from the men of Indianapolis, the ship that transported the bomb to the Marianas.
There were 90,000 buildings in Hiroshima before the bomb was dropped.
Only 28,000 remained after the bombing.
Of the city's 200 doctors before the explosion, only 20 were left alive or capable of working.
There were 1,780 nurses before, only 150 remained, left to tend to the sick and dying.
You're listening to Dark Matter News on Art Bells, Midnight in the Desert.
Got paranormal news tips, strange news?
Take a look at past and future programs at darkmatternews.com.
Less than two months after SoftBanker's Pepper Robot went on sale in Japan, another intelligent humanoid is posed to make its way into Asia.
That's because Boston-based Jeebo just closed an $11 million strategic investment round to eventually bring its social robot to households in Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and China.
Jeebo started out as an Indiegogo-Go project for a robotic smart assistant that can help families.
After pulling in a whopping $3.7 million from its crowdfunding campaign, massively exceeding its $100,000 target, the company went on to land a $25.3 million funding round led by RRE Ventures in January of this year to kick things up a notch.
Jeebo said the fully-fledged version will provide a range of different interactions, such as handling reminders, ordering food, taking photos and videos, and other everyday assistant tasks like sending email, connecting with the internet, or facilitating communication.
Like Pepper, it could provide a friendly and easy-to-use interface for seniors looking to keep in touch with family or keep their routine organized using the internet.
Earth may have a hairy mane of dark matter flowing around it.
While that's quite an image to imagine, nearly 85% of the matter in the universe is thought to be so-called dark matter, stuff that has not yet been detected directly because it only interacts with normal matter via gravity.
Rather than being distributed smoothly through galaxies, simulations show that dark matter particles should clump into features like halos, disks, and streams.
Gary Prezu at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California wondered what would happen if a stream of dark matter pierced a planet like Earth.
He calculated that the planet's gravity would bend the particles' trajectories and focus them to a point.
This lensing effect would concentrate dark matter along an axis passing through Earth's core, reaching densities about a billion times more than average at the focal point.
Prezu calls these features hairs.
The focus or root of one such hair would be about a million kilometers above Earth, just beyond the moon.
If you find where these hairs are, you can put a detector right in front of one of them, he says.
Oh, well, yeah, he talked about people claiming to live with them or spend time with them, talk to them, and all this stuff.
And yes, there are people who have made those claims.
And those claims are largely ignored by most.
Even people in the Bigfoot community who are convinced Bigfoot is real, they don't want to go so far as to suggest that it might be able to think and talk and all of these other things.
And they think that that stuff is being made up by people.
So for Michael, my question has to do with some of the alternatives to the Bigfoots being biological entities.
Like earlier, he was talking about aliens in costume.
So I would just be interested in hearing about some of the best alternatives he's heard to Bigfoot being a biological entity, like an ancestral spirit or something like that.
And of course, this comes from the fact that people have seen, or believe they've seen, Bigfoots in association with UFOs in various contexts.
So that, of course, they believe that the star people are involved.
And there are people who claim that they have spoken with both star people and Bigfoot people.
And let's see.
So everything you have in the UFO phenomenon, the abductee, the contactee, all those different sort of side categories, they all exist within the Bigfoot phenomenon as well.
And so, you know, people make up stories, things do happen that people try to report, and it can certainly be a miasma at times.
You know, this is something that I've toiled with.
I've had sleepless nights about it over the course of the last 10 years, especially since I started going for this in a big way and came out of the closet with my research.
And I started to think, well, these seem to be mild-mannered forest people.
If we expose them, then what's going to happen to them?
And then I realized here recently that, oh, too late, the cat's out of the bag.
If I drop my Bigfoot research and stop working towards this end, that doesn't mean there isn't going to be somebody or 20 more people trying to do it.
And I want to be sure that I'm involved in it so maybe I can have some say in all this.
Maybe I'll get a vote at some point because of the amount of time I've spent on it and the dollars spent.
And, you know, all these things show up on the phone.
I have no idea.
Anyway, go ahead.
unidentified
Okay, Duke from Dayton.
I'd like to ask Mike a question.
Mike, you talked earlier about you had talked to a special effects expert or a Hollywood type guy about the, I think it was the Patterson film.
Okay, that's fine.
But I remember 20 plus years ago, there was an alien autopsy video, and there were dozens of these Hollywood types that came out and said there's no way this could be faked.
They talked to the guys that did the Star Wars and all these other things, and they all said it couldn't be done.
Similarly, they talked to a lot of these photo experts who said there is no way you could fake these films.
If Mike is saying he talked to a Hollywood special effects guy who told him there was no way in 1960, whatever, that that capability existed to make that suit or whatever he thought it was, how does he compare that to 30 years later in 1990 when the technology was much further along, when you had people saying, not only can you not make that suit or that special effect, you can't even fake the film.
And you and I both know that at least the alien stuff, the alien autopsy stuff, has all been shown to be all fake.
It is being called by Mike the special effects guy I talked to.
I said a man named Bill Munns spent years using his skill set with a grant to do so to analyze the film with no preconception one way or the other as to the outcome of his examination.
And he found that it was not a costume.
And he wrote that down in a book and published it for peer review.
It's called the scientific method.
And he was a man that was perfectly suited and with the skill set to do such an operation.
So if you want to have an argument about the Patterson film, if you want to have an argument about the Patterson film, to do that scientifically, you have to put that in writing and prove he's wrong.
Why, with all today's technology, with everybody being able to videotape everybody with their cameras and things, why are the Bigfoot photos always so blurry and far away and not showing the face and not getting anything like today on TV?
I mean, now with the latest cameras, Android or, you know, the iPhone cameras, you can get good video.
Now, that doesn't mean the person holding the camera, especially if you're trying to take a...
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Well, I just think that all the whole time that everybody's been talking about that, and that original guy admitted it was fake, and there were droves of people coming out after him.
Thanks for taking my, I guess, Skype call or whatever you want to call it.
Yep.
Okay, so I want to talk to you about, I'm calling from Oklahoma, And there's a place in Oklahoma called the Sacred Heart Mission, which was supposedly like the first Catholic mission in Indian territory.
Okay, so what happened was I went there one night, and there were several of us there, and there was something we couldn't see, but we felt like we were being washed, and there was the most blood-curdling scream any of us had ever heard.
And so we bolted and got out of that place and never went back.
So I guess, do you want me to end your show with what I would think may be a Bigfoot scream that I heard out there in the woods in southeast Oklahoma?