Art Bell

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Aug. 6, 2015 - Art Bell

02:36:27

Art Bell MITD - Michael Rugg Bigfoot Discovery Museum

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45:39

leo ashcraft

09:47

michael rugg

01:00:02

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's plentiful time zones.
		Welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		Well, this should be an interesting show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how much you know about book big foot, but we're about to teach you a lot more.
		In a moment, rules of the show.
		No bad language.
		And only one call per show.
		That's fairly standard stuff.
		Thank you for the show.
		Also pretty standard, actually.
		Telos, great sound.
		Joe Talbot, right here in Perump.
		And Telos, amazing stuff.
		Keith Rowan, my webmaster.
		My producer, Heather Wade.
		Bellgab website, people who love RFL.
		M-I-D, that's MidnightIndesert.com.
unidentified		StreamGuys, LV.net.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peter Everhard up in Anchorage, who does the advertising.
		If you're interested in advertising, that's the guy to get hold of.
		And advertising on here is very productive because we don't have much of it.
		So because we don't have much, what you do have obviously gets heard.
		All right, so last night's show, I got one response of thousands that I really love, this particular one.
		I mean, some loved it, some hated it.
		It really went the whole gauntlet.
		This one I enjoyed, though.
		I enjoyed the debate last night.
		I do have a suggestion for the Flat Earth Expedition to the Sun.
		You know, that expedition, she says, where he says they prove irrefutably the sun is 3,000 miles above the flat earth.
		He says they should go at night so no one gets hurt.
		Oh, boy.
		All right, from the anomalous, I watch them daily.com.
		The complete Patterson Gimlin film footage.
		Now, we've got some hot stuff up there tonight.
		Reference Bigfoot.
		And Anomalous says, be sure not to miss it because this is an absolute must see.
		As Bigfoot evidence explains, very few people have ever watched the entire film, the Patterson film, ever before.
		Already some people are seeing some inconsistencies or anomalies, most notably the presence of another person at 53 seconds into the footage to the far left.
		The film jumps a bit, and the figure changes position, which rules out it being a tree stump, obviously.
		Patterson and Gimlin have always insisted they were alone on the trip, so if that is a third person, who is it?
		That's kind of an obvious duh, I would say.
		We definitely have the right man to be talking about this with tonight.
		His name is Michael Rugg.
		That's R-U-G-G.
		He is co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum, located in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California.
		The purpose of this museum is to educate the public at large about the probability of Bigfoot and the current best guesses as to its inhabitants and its place in the natural world.
		He's been collecting information and artifacts while studying known bipedal primates since the early 1950s.
		So he's been at this a while.
		When the first photos of unknown tracks on Mount Everest appeared in Western newspapers since 2003, he's dedicated his full-time attention to the mystery primate phenomenon via the Bigfoot Discovery Museum that he runs.
		And I think we've got him on the line with us on the phone.
		Hello there, Mike.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Hey, how are you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really well, Mike, and really glad to have you on the program.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I am honored to be on your program.
unidentified		Thank you.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I listened to you years ago and always loved your work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, Bigfoot, I guess I would like to ask you, because I've never met you, I don't think we've ever talked, have we?
unidentified		Nope.
unidentified		Nope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Haven't.
		All right, Mike.
		How did you come to get started in Bigfoot research?
		I mean, there has to be a precipitating event of some kind, like seeing this creature or something.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the beginning of that is really hard to nail down, but I think it probably has to do with having a sighting as a child.
		I found that throughout my childhood, I had a particular fascination with apes, apes of all kinds.
		I read every Tarzan novel cover to cover.
		I used to want to go to the zoo all the time and hang out with the chimps and the gorillas and so on and so forth.
		And then not too many years ago, I was reading an excerpt in, I think, one of John Green's books, and a lady was describing a sighting she had up in Northern California, and it made me have this flashback memory.
		And the memory that flashed into my head was that I actually saw a Bigfoot.
		And the way the story goes is it was in probably 1950, and I was with my parents, my mom and my dad.
		My dad was a fisherman.
		My mom was a driftwood collector.
unidentified		Mike, may I ask your age?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		69.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		69.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I got a year on you, buddy.
unidentified		All right.
		Kid?
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in 1950, you were still pretty young.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was between four and five years old.
unidentified		Right, okay.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And so the sighting happened because I strayed away from the camping.
		My parents and I were camped on a beach on the Eel River up in Northern California.
		Now, we were there because my dad once had a sawmill up in that area.
		And so he knew the best fishing holes and swimming holes.
		And even though our family had moved to the East Bay, down in the Bay Area, we would still go up to the Eel River to fish and hunt driftwood.
		So it was one of those trips, and they were making breakfast on the camp stove, and I went wandering off by myself.
		I should have announced to them, of course, I was leaving, but I didn't.
		And I was following a trail that kind of hugged the river edge, but the road was blocked by brush and so forth.
		There was brush on both sides of the path.
		I pushed myself my way through the brush, stepped out into an open sandbar, and then I just, you know, kind of was scanning the horizon, looking around to see what I could see.
		And as I turned back towards the forest, I realized that somebody else had stepped off the path, probably 10 yards ahead of me, and was standing there looking at me.
		And this fellow was extremely tall.
		I remember noting that, thinking if you stacked my mom and dad up, they would not measure up to this man.
		And he was covered in long reddish-brown hair.
		And I had a very good look at him.
		It was about 5.36 in the morning.
		The sun was up.
		There was no brush between us.
		There he was.
		And as I was making eye contact for a couple of seconds, I hear my mother screaming, Mikey, where are you?
		So being a good son, I dropped everything and I ran back to the campsite, notified my mom that I was all right, and then said, why don't you guys come and see the big hairy man?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does your mom recall this?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I asked her.
		She actually, she came to live with me about the same time that I started the Bigfoot Museum.
		She was 96 at that point and was in need of help.
		So I took care of her until she died at 102.
		And when she first moved in, she was still pretty lucid.
		And so I asked her, you know, when was the last time we went up to Humboldt and went fishing and so forth?
		And she said, oh, well, that would have been prior to 1952.
		Now, when I had my flashback, I was kind of reticent to admit it to anybody.
		I kept it to myself because I had my own doubts.
		And I have found now interviewing hundreds and hundreds of different witnesses, it's quite common for people to doubt themselves because, you know, the nature of this phenomenon.
		So I didn't really mention it.
		And so I asked my mother, do you recall, you know, me telling you of seeing a hairy man on the beach up there?
		And she said, no, I don't remember that.
		But what she did was she established that the timing would have been around 1950, 51.
		And so it makes sense that I would have forgotten such a thing because my original thought was, oh, I must have been 10 years old after my father's heart attack when I saw that thing.
		And that didn't make sense.
		How could I have forgotten such a thing?
		And when I was 10 years old, that would be 1956.
		By then, people were talking about the abominable snowman, so it wouldn't have been something that I had no reference for.
		But when I saw this thing, I didn't have a name for it.
		I didn't have any way of knowing what it was because it wasn't something within my sphere.
		And it wasn't until a couple of years later when the announcement of the Abominable Snowman footprints went around the world and started the whole Mr. Primate thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've been studying Bigfoot then almost, I guess, all your adult life?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've been studying it all my adult life for sure, and most of my childhood as well.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Because 52 is when the picture was taken by Eric Shipton on Mount Everest of the footprints.
unidentified		Right.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And those hit the news in late 51, early 52.
		Life magazine, of course, did a big article about it.
		It was all the news.
		The abominable snowman.
		And I didn't, you know, when I heard about that, I didn't make a connection with my memory.
		Oh, because I forgot to mention when I asked my parents to come and see the Bigfoot that I had observed, they went with me, and when we got there, of course, it wasn't there.
		And so they proceeded to tell me, don't worry, don't be afraid.
unidentified		Forget about it.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		It was probably just a tramp.
		And I said, what's a tramp?
		And they said, well, a homeless person.
		They probably don't have great hygiene.
		They don't shave every day.
		You know, they're out in the woods.
		Yeah, you probably saw a homeless person, a tramp.
		So I learned that a tramp is a 10-foot-tall area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you establish credentials other than your own experience for your study of breakthrough?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You know, you hear that term all the time, self-proclaimed expert.
unidentified		You do.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You do hear that thrown around a lot, especially by skeptics.
		And my question is, you know, how does one become an expert in anything?
		They do so by studying it, and they study it in lots of different ways.
		And so it started with me by getting a scrapbook and collecting every article on the Obama Snowman I could find, newspapers, magazines, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a Bigfoot Northwest University who could have a prudential parent.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That would have been good if I had known about that.
unidentified		Yeah.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And then I started, of course, purchasing any Bigfoot toy or article that came out.
		And then, you know, in 1961, there was a book written by Ivan Sanderson called Abombless Snowman, Legend Come to Life.
		And that was right at the time that I was starting high school.
		So during my scholarly years in both high school and college, I attempted to make this a major study.
		Every chance I got to bring it up and to make it a part of the curriculum that I was undergoing, I would do so.
		But I got a lot of flackback from the professors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I bet you have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your view, is the abominable snowman and Bigfoot the same thing?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
		Hold that thought.
		Hold that thought.
		We have to take a break, and I better take it.
		Not the same thing.
		Why couldn't it be the same thing?
		Same fur, same height, same look.
		One's cold, one's not.
		Seems to me it could be the same thing.
		When we get back, we'll ask about that.
		I'm Mark Bell, and this is Midnight in Desert.
unidentified		Listen to the wind blow, watch the sun rise.
		Run in the shadows, damn your love, damn your life.
		And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
		And if you don't say it, you'll never break the jammer.
		And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
		But above your feet, your fear seems to have been your dear in a world made of deep.
		Made of deep.
		Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nive.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call Art.
		My guest is Mike Rubb, co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Museum, actually, in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and that's probably where Bigfoot would be.
		Question was, the abominable snowman and Bigfoot, they do seem, you know, on the face of them, sorry about that, like the same creatures.
		One in a cold place, one, I don't know, maybe in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, they certainly are both mystery primates, animals that are seen by indigenous peoples and described and denied by science.
		So they have that in common.
		Also, the descriptions are similar.
		And one of the misconceptions, of course, about the Bomble Snowman is that they're white.
		They're always depicted looking like a white ape.
		And most of the individuals who have seen them and described them, the great majority of them, have described them as black or brown or reddish, you know, similar colors to the Bigfoot and to other apes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if a Bigfoot was snowed on and in the ice, he'd probably be fairly white.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And then, of course, there are some individuals that are born white, you know, have pink eyes and so forth.
		I'm supposed to be one of those.
		But I think that what the Yeti or the bombless snowman is, is an ape that lives in high-altitude mountains below the snow line.
		Most apes and other primates do not live in the snow.
		There's only one monkey I know that does.
		And the rest pretty much stay out of the snow.
		And so I think it's an ape that has developed the ability to cross mountain passes through the snow by walking upright.
		And I picture a Yeti as putting his hands up as soon as he gets in the snow, walking upright until he's to the next valley on the other side of the ridge.
		And then as soon as he enters the forest again, he gets back down on all fours.
		And the reason for that is because of the footprints.
		The archetypal footprint of the Obambla snowman has a big toe that sticks off to the side of the foot, accompanied by another semi-large toe and then three normal-looking toes, kind of three side by side.
		Whereas Sasquatch tracks look more like giant flat-footed human tracks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		How about this?
		You said that at times he's on two feet and then back on all fours, yes?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That's what I believe, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so a lot of people believe that man slowly came up in our evolution from, frankly, at one point, all fours, and then we stood up straight and walked.
		Does that make Bigfoot or the abominable snowman, does that make them some sort of ancestral relationship to us?
		Maybe one that, I don't know, stopped or slowed down while we kept going?
		I don't know.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a whole bunch of different possibilities.
		Think about this Bigfoot thing and the Yeti thing.
		It is indeed a global phenomenon.
		People have been reporting these things from all over the world ever since the beginning of oral history.
		It's something that's always been there.
		And I think it's because in the history of the evolution of humans, we have had ancestors that coexisted alongside us.
		In other words, when we evolve from one animal into a new one through a mutation, the original progenitor animal doesn't just suddenly disappear.
		They continue to exist, and now there's a new one coexisting.
		Now, if those two, as they evolve and develop, if the new one somehow goes into competition with the original progenitor species, then they may supplant them through what's called the survival of the fittest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And while we're here, is Bigfoot an endangered species?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't believe so.
		But I think that with the current condition and with as many people now involved in Bigfoot hunting, so we call it, I think that they may become endangered.
		As more people are willing to believe that they exist, there, I think, are going to be more people who want to go out and shoot one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There'll be a dentist somewhere.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
		So, in fact, I'm sure there are people like that.
		And, you know, we talked in recent days about people putting on Bigfoot costumes.
		Or we had some other creatures that we depicted on the website, those kind of costumes.
		And frankly, putting on a costume like that and walking around, oh, say in your Santa Cruz Mountains there, I know those mountains.
		It seems to me that would be really, really dangerous.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I would say so.
		You know, nine out of ten people, normal people, wouldn't think, wouldn't even cross their mind to take a shot at one of those.
		But there are people who, that's exactly what they want to do.
		They want to shoot first and ask questions later.
		And there are people who claim to have done so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, let us...
		I interviewed one of them.
		You remember that interview?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I remember Bugs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bugs, yes, he shot two.
		I had the map.
		It got lost in a move.
		And forever lost, I'm sorry to say.
		Bugs, of course, is welcome to get hold of me.
		And the pressure on memory on all of this.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That never was resolved?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was afraid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was afraid, Mike, that he murdered a couple of people.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Yeah.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the common reason why people don't report their Bigfoot kills.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		They usually do it thinking it's a bear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but that...
		You'd be saying, look what I did.
		You'd be standing over it like a trophy.
		And then allowing the scientists in.
		You'd make the most of your 15 minutes or more of fame.
		There's no doubt about it.
		So I'm thinking nobody has done it yet except maybe the fellow I interviewed, Bugs.
		Bugs, if you're out there, get a hold of me, buddy.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a man out there right now who claims he killed two of them just recently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And did not report it because.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Because he was afraid of prosecution because it looked too much like a human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So once they walk up to their kills.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I heard another story from a local man who had a father had a friend who was a mountain man.
		His name was Breiner, Elmer Breiner.
		And he hunted grizzly bear for a living.
		And he, around 1900, was at the mouth of the Pitt River where it met the Sacramento.
		That's before Lake Shesta was put there.
		And he took aim and shot a grizzly bear in the back of the head.
		And as he watched it fall down, he had a good kill.
		He started working his way down the canyon wall to harvest this bear.
		He had an Indian companion with him named Cannonball who was on the other side of the river.
		He went across in a little cable contraption and got to the side.
		And the two of them got to this kill about the same time.
		And the man who told me the story was a former Navy SEAL.
		He lives here locally in the valley.
		And he said that he couldn't help but kind of choke up and get a little tear in his eye when he was telling me this because Elmer Bryner cried like a baby because he said that when they rolled that grizzly over, it had a human face and human hands and feet.
		And he realized he'd killed a wild man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And not a grizzly.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And he did not feel good about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That begs an obvious question then.
		Are there other wild men out there that might run into the same problem for the same reason?
		I mean, virtually feral humans, I guess.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there are feral humans out there.
		I think that's part of the problem.
		You see, the phenomenon, as I mentioned earlier, being a global thing that's been going on for years, forever, so to speak, it's not going to be defined by any one particular species of animal, I don't think.
		I think that there are, see, because what we're dealing with here are citing reports.
		The Bigfoot phenomena is largely anecdotal.
		We have the Patterson film, we have some footprints and things like that, but mostly what we have are eyewitness testimony.
		And that you can take and use as a database, and that tells us a lot of stuff about these animals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		May I ask you a really personal question?
		If you were somewhere outside your museum, had a gun in your hand, a good high-powered rifle, and Bigfoot was standing, oh, I don't know, 50 yards away from you, would you raise your rifle and fire?
		Or would you cradle your rifle and make little cooing sounds or something trying to get Bigfoot to come your way?
		Now, don't answer that yet.
unidentified		That's why we have breaks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People will hang around and find out what the answer is.
		Even I have no idea what he's going to say.
		This is a classic question: Would you shoot, or would you hold your fire?
		Midnight in the Desert.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
		A feisty debate tonight.
		Donald Trump was the only one of 10 Republican presidential candidates debating tonight in Cleveland who won't pledge to support the eventual GOP nominee.
		Trump says he intends to win.
		Trump also said he had no time for political correctness when asked if he was concerned that some of his remarks in the past might be offensive to women.
		He also joked that the remarks were directed at actor Rosie O'Donnell.
		Unlike the feisty prime time debate between the top polling tier of the GOP candidates at a debate in Cleveland, the seven other candidates considered at the bottom of the polls faced off before a largely empty arena.
		The forum was less hostile.
		Most of the criticism was directed at the Democrats.
		A man who claimed to be Tarzan has been arrested after he allegedly climbed a tree and tried to get into the monkey exhibit at a Southern California zoo.
		A zookeeper called 911 Tuesday morning to report that a shirtless man plastered in mud had climbed about 20 feet into a tree at the bird exhibit at the Santa Ana Zoo.
		He had left by the time the police arrived, but was taken into custody a short time later.
		On a previous Dark Matter News report, we'd reported about a Jeep that hackers were able to take over.
		Now Tesla Motors appears to be a victim of such attacks as well.
		On Thursday, it has sent a software patch to address security flaws in the Tesla Model S sedan that could allow hackers to take control of the vehicle.
		Cybersecurity researchers said they had taken control of a Model S and turned it off at a low speed, one of six significant flaws they found that could allow hackers to take control of the vehicle.
		Art Bell had a special guest last night who believes that the Earth is flat.
		And our roving reporter, John Gee, is out on the field with a special report for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Hello, this is John Gee with Dark Matter News.
		I am here on assignment waiting on Aerospace Engineer Pulitzer Prize winner.
		He is an anonymous Flatlander.
		We are trying to prove that the Earth is flat.
		And we're waiting here today on assignment to talk to an airline pilot that goes by the handle Skip Trace.
		He is a confirmed flat planet believer.
		He is anti-earthball, and he has set his sights on setting sail against this giant flat landscape he calls Flirt.
		Equipping Skip's plane with new flat lens cameras that were developed specially by Mr. Anonymous Bob, the leader of the anti-earthballers.
		Anonymous Bob stated that we are subject to one of the world's greatest and most advanced conspiracy theories ever, that we've all been duped into believing that the Earth, not round, but it is flat indeed.
		We would like to issue a challenge to Mr. Anonymous Bob.
		We'd like for you to prove that the Earth is flat.
		Anonymous Bob, the gentleman that says that the Earth is flat, has been tracked down and was found to be working for U.S. Globe.
		He felt that it was the best place to start, making a difference from the inside.
		Anonymous John about Earthballers, he said it doesn't take anything to believe that the Earth is round.
		It might take just a little bit more than facts, maybe even some faith, to believe that it's flat.
		Anonymous Bob says that we have been duped to believe that we are living on a planet that is not round.
		That's not what he said, but that's what he meant.
		He was about as confusing as the last 10 seconds of this first cast here.
		But I do know one thing.
		I'm hungry.
		And when I get hungry, I reach out for some flatbread.
		It seems that facts are not important, or physics, or even the basics of science, to prove that the Earth is not round, but indeed flat.
		According to Anonymous John, a guest last night on Art Bell, but I'd like to ask him this one question.
		We don't need science.
		We don't need math.
		Just give us some hard proof.
		Find someone who will fly a plane, who will gas that plane and fly it all the way across this flat Earth with a flat camera, something that will take flat panoramic pictures.
		Just give us some proof.
		That's all we ask.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, John G, for that report.
		Such that it was.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft, and this is Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News
		We will, we will rock you.
		We will, we will rock you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shout out to Leo Ashcraft for that newscast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely incredible.
unidentified		Big arrived from the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, dial 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I'm going to set this up even better because if you think about Mike, Mike Rugg, the curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum of the mountains there in Santa Cruz, and you think about his position, then this question gets a lot, lot, lot harder.
		If you think about Mike Rugg, again, who owns a museum.
		The question I'm posing, and Mike, you can picture him now.
		He just maybe went out for a smoke or maybe he's quit.
		I don't know.
		But he's out outside the museum when it's closed and late.
		He's got a 30-odd six With him at least.
		And oh my god, it couldn't be 50 yards away.
		It gotta be like 10 feet tall, covered in brown for the meanest looking thing you ever saw.
		Now he can either raise that 06, or he can cradle it and try to talk to Bigfoot and communicate with it like a civilized person.
		But then on the other hand, you've got to think, well, Mike owns the biggest museum of its sort, probably in the world.
		And if he had a stuffed Bigfoot in the museum, they'd be coming from miles round.
		Actually, there'd be Japanese tourists traipsing through your museum at whatever the charge is to traps currently.
		So there you got them in your sights, Mike.
		What would you do?
unidentified		Truth be told.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would have to go along with what Gimlan did.
		And Gimlin held the rifle and watched as Patterson did the filming.
		Now, he told me if that thing had gone after Roger, I could have taken an eye out with one shot.
		I was that good.
		And that's what I would have done.
		But it didn't go after Roger, so we agreed not to shoot unless we were in danger.
		And that's the way I would handle it.
		And I would, when we go out and hunt Bigfoot, you know, go out in the woods and try and get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you do that, right?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		We do, yes.
		I do with several volunteer helpers.
		And we did that for a number of years, three or four nights a week.
		And we had experiences.
		I found out that you can actually put yourself in a position to have a Bigfoot experience.
		It's not as difficult as I had imagined.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're going to say that, then I'm going to begin to ask you about its paranormal characteristics.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I have certainly talked to a number of individuals who have described characteristics that would be considered paranormal.
		That certainly is one type of Bigfoot.
		There's another type of Bigfoot.
		That's the mythical Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That's the one that has no parents and is thousands of years old.
		There's only one of, people think there's only one Bigfoot.
		The mythical Bigfoot also includes, of course, hoaxes.
		But there's the biological Bigfoot as well.
		Now the big question, is the biological Bigfoot completely 100% biological?
		Or does it sometimes fade over into the paranormal realm?
		Some witnesses would tell you so, and some of my peers would immediately shun those witnesses, would tell them to be quiet and go away, that they don't want to hear about it.
		I don't do that.
		We try to take in every bit of data that comes our way because anecdotes are anecdotes.
		And if you start picking and choosing which ones you want to listen to and which ones you don't, then I don't think you're doing science.
		And we're trying to do the right thing and do it the right way and come up with some truths.
		So paranormal is considered as well as everything else.
		But I'll have to say that right now I'm concentrating on the biological Bigfoot and I will continue to do so until I feel that there's something haywire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before we get too far into the show, you've got some photographs for us that you put up on or is linked to artbell.com.
		So if they go to artbell.com right now, you can see what I guess Mike refers to as or thinks of as a Bigfoot tooth.
		Is that correct?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, we like to think that this could very well be a Bigfoot tooth.
		I'm going there.
		If it's not a Bigfoot tooth, then it's a giant human tooth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, oh, God, I feel so sorry for that human if that's what it is.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I showed it to seven dentists, and all seven of them said, this looks like a human upper molar, but it's way too big.
		So what I have there is a picture of a human molar next to a human mandible.
		Now, that mandible is a cast made from an actual human skull that I got from a museum supply house.
		The molar tooth, howin, and then next to it is the tooth that was discovered in the mountains here, just three miles from the museum.
		And next to it, I have the Meganthropus jaw, which is a reconstruction done by Grover Krantz of Meganthropus.
		Meganthropus, the big man, was discovered on the island of Java.
		It's known from just a few bones.
		Two of them you can see there, the dark teeth, are the actual fossil recognition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me only stop long enough, please, so everybody can catch up with this.
		When you go to artbell.com, at the very top, when you get on the page, folks, you'll see a picture of Mike who kind of looks like – I was offered a job as a professional Santa.
		There you have it.
		He kind of looks like Santa.
		Click on that, and then you'll get to the pictures I'm talking about.
		It's all at artbell.com.
		Okay, so first picture up, Bigfoot tooth images.
unidentified		Now, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got a part of a tooth there next to a penny.
unidentified		Yeah.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That is the putative Bigfoot tooth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That can't be a human tooth.
		There's no way.
		No way.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's way too big.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		But it certainly could be a Bigfoot tooth because it happens to be in an area where we have contemporary sighting reports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Mike, when I look at that, I've got to ask a question.
		When I look at that, it's like I almost see what almost looks like, I don't know, guts of a tooth.
		I mean, more than just enamel.
		It almost looks like there's biological material in there.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, that's because the crown is worn off that tooth.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You're seeing what is a huge cavity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But my point here is that something with that much biological whatever that gookie is would have some sort of DNA in it, wouldn't it?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, that would be expected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you had that DNA looked at?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very long story, but I'll just tell you that I have tried.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Part of my tooth is now still in a lab in Texas with Melba Ketchum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Part of my tooth is in Oxford, England with Brian Sykes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they like to cut these samples up like crazy.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the last third of the tooth was once in a little jar here in the museum, but last week it turned up missing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid somebody took it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		You mean like somebody just...
		You mean somebody who was coming through the museum lifted what was left of your tooth?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank God you've got the photograph.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		We have the photographs, and there are parts of the tooth, like I said, still in existence in two different DNA labs, both of which supposedly we're going to test them.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		When Brian Sykes did his study, he opted to use only hairs, even though they asked for other things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go up now to the mandibles up above.
		Those are awfully big.
		I mean, what are the scientists say about these?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that mandible, like I said, comes from an animal that's been labeled Meganthropus by scientists.
		Other scientists will say, well, that's an unnecessary name.
		That's actually a Homo erectus, but it happens to be an especially large one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, could they, from the size of the mandible, project the size of the creature?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, they have done that.
		And I didn't put the picture up, but there is a cranium that's been reconstructed that goes with it.
		The whole skull has been reconstructed by Grover Krantz.
		And they had a complete occipital bone, so that means they had a very good indication of the cranium size.
		The cranium is nearly as big as a human cranium.
		It has the beginnings of a sagittal crest, a little bit of a bump down the center of the forehead, and that bony ridge around the eyes that you see on the Patterson creature.
		Right.
		That you'll find on the Meganthropus skull.
		And you'll find this gigantic twice the normal size jaw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To me, it looks like it belongs to that guy in the 007 movie with the teeth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember?
unidentified		Yeah, right.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or something much bigger even.
		So it's gigantic.
		Absolutely gigantic.
		I hope people are following along with us here.
		It's at artbell.com.
		And then there are other comparisons to teeth a little down lower, also up against pennies to give you a concept of size.
		That one on the bottom, what am I looking at?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That's all one tooth you're seeing from the different angles.
		And so what you're seeing there is the fact that the crown, the crown has worn off the top.
		You can see that in the side view that shows the tooth interior.
		And you can see the dental material down both sides.
		Crown is worn off.
		And then you look down at the roots and you see those are broken off.
		And then if you look at that top view, you can see that also almost a half the tooth is missing.
		So that tooth, the way it is right now, when you look at it compared to the human tooth up there in that other photo with the mandibles, it looks pretty big.
		But if you were to restore that to its full size, it would be then obviously twice the size of that human tooth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		All right, so we're talking about an obviously really large, probably very scary creature here.
		You know, I've got to go back to this question just one last time.
		I mean, really, Mike, if you had the chance to have a stuffed, real McCoy, full no question about it Bigfoot in your museum, you could really turn that down in the name of...
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think that eventually, unless these things turn out to be paranormal, we're going to eventually have a Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs.
		We're going to have to set up agencies.
		There'll be some forests and things that will be set aside for them.
		And they'll have their rights to the pursuit of happiness like the rest of us.
		Because if they are 99.9 human.
unidentified		A Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More government, Mike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More government.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, but with people like myself running it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you really think so?
unidentified		I'll bet that's what the Apaches thought, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be revving things.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That's my fantasy, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, okay.
		Well, all right, so on to a million other questions.
		You say they're all around the world.
		Bigfoot is, in one form or another, can be seen in almost all parts of the world.
unidentified		Yes?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		What's really interesting is the most recent find, which is on the island of Flores in Indonesia.
unidentified		Wow.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		The people there are the Nage people.
		I've been telling scientists for quite some time about the little hairy people that live in the forest.
		They're described as being three feet in height, completely grown, running around on two legs and having no apparent signs of culture of any kind.
		And they call them the Abugogo.
		So this is another typical Bigfoot myth, because the Bigfoot around the world come in different sizes.
		Not only are they described as being particularly large and robust, but there are also grass aisle varieties, little ones, littlefoots.
		And those are spotted in Africa and Central America, North America, and most particularly on islands.
		So here's an island, and some scientists went there from Australia, and of course they ignored the tales of the little wild men in the forest.
		They didn't go looking for living beings.
		But they did find a big cave that interested them, so they dug down in this cave, and lo and behold, here's 13 little skeletons of three-foot-tall diminutive people.
		And these people have skulls that look like miniature Homo erectus people.
		And some of the bones are 90,000 years old.
		Some of the bones are only 13,000 or 12,000 years old.
unidentified		Do bigfoot creatures die?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Do they die?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do they die?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Of course they die.
unidentified		If they die, where are the bones?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's another interesting question.
		That's one that people always bring up.
		And I have a pretty simple explanation for it.
		The bones are in the fossil record, and they are in universities and other collections around the world.
		And they are considered to be members of our family tree.
		They are described in various ways as Australopithecus, Homo erectus, Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo adultu, Homo hydrobrigensis, Homo neandothalensis.
		In other words, if one of those wild men from our past, you know, Lucy, the little one from Africa that was 4 million years old, walking on two legs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		If you saw one of those in the forest today, you would probably report a Bigfoot event.
unidentified		So what I'm saying is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But yes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, there's plenty of bones in the fossil record indicating the existence of large bipedal primates.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And other than the fact that a lot of these giant skeletons have been hidden away on purpose, we would have more examples of giant skeletons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, why, why?
		Why would somebody hide them away on purpose?
		Unless you felt you had, as a hunter, killed a human by mistake or something that would be regarded as perhaps human.
		Nobody wants to face murder charges.
		So, yeah, sure.
		Then you hide them.
		Otherwise, if you really think you've got a Bigfoot, you start screaming and yelling and maybe even open a museum in competition with Mike.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, we have plenty of effigies of Bigfoot here at our museum.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		We have one carved of redwood, a couple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they're effigies.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		We also have some hollow ones made of pepper-mâché and wax and nine feet tall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, impressive, but again.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		They give you a good idea of how Bigfoot looks and how it stands next to you.
		Right.
		But yeah, a real one would be good.
		So that's our next plan.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		It's called habituation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, break that down for the rest of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Habituation.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You habitually create a scenario in which you're inviting a Bigfoot to come in to join you.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You have a campsite dedicated to that, and you provide meats and sweets for the Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		meats and sweets.
		How do you Other than that, what is it you do?
		I mean, there's lots of meats and sweets at most, you know, campgrounds.
		People go out camping.
		They generally are cooking something that must smell pretty good to a Bigfoot, you know, at a mile away, two miles away.
unidentified		Sure.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, that's why they come and visit people's camps in the middle of the night, you know, looking for some of those sweets and meats.
		Otherwise, they stay away.
		I think the Bigfoot figured out about 300 years ago here in North America that the only way they were going to survive as a species would be by hiding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were about to get to that.
		I mean, we don't see many Bigfoot.
		There is an occasional report, even an occasional photograph.
		But otherwise, we don't see them, which means they must be smart, at least smart enough to hide.
		Or we'd see them, right?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		When we opened the museum here in Santa Cruz 10 years ago, I didn't think of this as a Bigfoot area.
		I knew that the Bigfoot would have been here in the past because it's a beautiful place to be.
		And I was quite sure there had been Bigfoot here, and I'd heard a couple of random stories.
		But I figured that they would be long gone from Santa Cruz because once the university came in and the college was built and so on, and I had a lot more people coming and staying, and Silicon Valley put together, we became a bedroom community for Silicon Valley.
		There's tourists, there's lumberjacks, and all this stuff.
		Bigfoot would have exited this place a long time ago.
		And then, as soon as the word hit the street that the Bigfoot Museum was here, the locals started coming in and telling me they're seeing them in their backyards right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that interesting?
		You think just the power of suggestion?
		Or is it possible that the thing you talked about earlier, the sort of invitation, is what produces the experience?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's a lot of ways of looking at this.
		Yes, some would say that, oh, it's mass hysteria caused by the existence of your museum.
		But I would also say, well, the museum is immediately recognized as a safe harbor for people who have had experiences like this who normally get ridiculed by everyone they try to share that with.
		And almost to the person, people who come in this museum and tell me their Bigfoot event and their encounter, they preface it by saying, you know, I don't talk about this much because when I do, I get ridiculed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I totally get it, Mike.
		Of course they do.
		Of course they get ridiculed.
		And that keeps people, Mike, from not just not talking about Bigfoot, but not talking about all kinds of paranormal experiences that they have.
		They're afraid they're going to, I mean, whether it's a business problem, you know, or they're worried about people coming to gently put on a little restraining white thing and take them away.
		One way or the other, they don't talk about it.
		Mike, hold tight.
		We'll be right back.
		Mike Rugg is my guest, co-founder of Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Museum in the Santa Cruz Mountains, where I hear tell that Bigfoot's been seen from the high desert and the great American Southwest.
unidentified		This is Midnight in the Desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Rockin'the night away.
unidentified		Leave me this way.
		I can't survive.
		take a ride?
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will print your ticket when you call 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mike Rugg is my guest.
		He is co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum up in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
		It is a pleasure to have you on, Mike.
		And my next question, I guess, is going to be, is there any record, known record, of Bigfoot having harmed a human being?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have found a couple of reliable stories, but in most cases, I feel that the harm was done in self-defense.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I don't know of any stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me what you know.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was a mining company in Chetco, Oregon.
		They had a problem with bears coming into camp.
		This was in 1890.
		And because of that, they would have a sentry stay up all night to wake everyone up should a bear come into camp.
		And one night a Bigfoot came into camp, and they sounded the alarm.
		Everybody woke up.
		Two of the miners grabbed lanterns and rifles and ran into the woods after the Bigfoot.
		A short time later, there was gunfire.
		They heard, and they figured they must have got it.
		But they waited, and the men did not return.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how many men were out?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Two men at least, with rifles and lanterns went out, and they didn't return, so they sent a posse out of several people to look for them.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And they were found, and they had been dismembered, and their rifles were kind of bent in a circle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Their rifles in a circle.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		They were bent, and the bodies were pulled apart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pulled apart.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		But I believe that was self-defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, one of them or both of them took a shot at a Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A Bigfoot took umbrage and, well, as you point out, ripped them apart, bent their rifles into U-shapes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		That's a horrible story.
		Well, all right.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		But that's not a typical Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, okay, I understand.
		He's a gentle, beautiful creature.
		This will serve a dual purpose, Mike.
		This is reported by a person close to me that many of you in the audience know to be the sound of a Bigfoot.
		It will also help you to understand whether you think Bigfoot is gentle or not.
		This comes to me via Lyndon Moulton Howe.
		And it also serves to check and see that all of you are still awake out there.
		is the actual recorded sound of a real Bigfoot.
unidentified		Bigfoot.
		I love you.
		I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so if you were asleep, welcome back.
		Glad to have you back.
		Well, what woke you up was the sound of a Bigfoot.
		And if in real life that woke you up and you're still alive, then fine.
		So, Mike, have you heard that sound before?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		We had occasion to record something very similar to that, where after a while the sound didn't even seem organic because what we recorded was a Bigfoot that was howling in siren-like fashion.
		Long-drawn-out siren.
unidentified		There you've got it.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And coyotes and dogs from all around joined it and started screaming along with it.
		Pretty soon you had the various vocal harmonics clashing and the echoing, and the whole thing took on a metallic sound, just as the one you just played did.
		It has a kind of metallic echo to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a terrified lady that held a recorder in her hand recording this.
		I mean, there's quite a story to go along with it.
		It's quite a credible report.
		We've had this sound for years.
		It's pretty horrible, in my opinion.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, it certainly is loud and disruptive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess, you know, an animal like, well, I don't know, any big animal, part of staying alive is scaring everything else around the heck away.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		And the Bigfoot does what other apes do and what people would do.
		If you decided that you had a disagreement with the person that moved in next door, you know, you would have options as to how to deal with that.
		One of the way would be you could start hassling that person, throw rocks at him, and have your dog poop in his yard or, you know, do all these negative things.
		Or you could just kind of be quiet and held back and try not to disrupt and try to introduce yourself and be friendly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm more of a fan of thousand-watt amplifiers with great big speakers, Mike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then the recording you just heard, you know, do it like 1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30 a.m.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had a woman come in and she said she was awakened By a scream, very much like that.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And the cat on the foot of her bed went up to the ceiling and then under the bed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And she said what's particularly unusual was that she has a barky dog, you know, one of those nuisance-type dogs.
		Yes.
		And it's kept outside.
		And the dog was decidedly quiet.
		And I have heard this so many times, I can guarantee that dogs know when the Bigfoot's around, when they can smell it, they are quiet.
		99% of dogs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
		Go ahead.
		No, no, I was just going to say the Patterson film is pretty much regarded as, you know, Bigfoot Gold as the best.
		Would you say that's true?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		100%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear me read the story at the beginning of the program about the observation of a third person in the Patterson film?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You know, I've heard stories like this over the years.
		There have been stories put up where they show a bunch of men at the films, you know, in the mountains prior to Patterson being there, and they claim that there was a murder, a mass murder, and all these people buried the Sasquatch.
		There's been all kinds of wild and crazy stories told about that thing.
		But I can tell you this.
		If you get a book written by Bill Munns, which was just put out at the end of last year, it's the result of many years of work that he's done on the Patterson film.
		And Bill Munns has 30 years experience in Hollywood as an artist, a makeup artist, and what have you.
		And he has designed and built costumes for movies, monsters.
		The swamp thing being one of his more notables.
		And he's the man who made the giant depiction of gigantopithecus that you see online everywhere.
		Bill Munns.
		Well, he got a little bit of money and a grant to go ahead and take his skill set and apply it to the Patterson film.
		And he had no iron and fire.
		He didn't care one way or another if the Patterson film was real or not and whether Bigfoot was real or not.
		But he knew he had the right credentials to figure that out.
		So he got more than one copy of the Patterson film, a total of three copies, scanned them into high-definition video, put them in his computer, and started analyzing the film.
		And he has now put this book out, which has many, many pages of drawings, diagrams, photographs of body parts from the Patterson film and why it's not a costume.
		And he has proven in that book, in my opinion, unequivocally, that the Patterson film is not a costume.
		Now, he doesn't say it's a Bigfoot.
		That's not the point.
		All he's saying is that is not a costume.
		That is a being that you're seeing that looks just like what you see.
		And he has proven that in writing with many diagrams, many models, many proofs, mathematical equations, and all the stuff they call science.
		And so that is officially a statement that's been put out for peer review now.
		So if someone wants to say the Patterson film is fake, then they have to do it in writing and they have to respond to his work and prove that he's wrong.
		That's called the scientific method.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't give this story much credibility about a third person that was seen moving.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		No, no, because I've heard so many stories like that.
		Oh, okay.
		And it turns out to be, you know, it really has nothing to do with it.
		What people do is they reach for things that they can bring up about the film that will cause you to have doubts about the credibility of the two witnesses, Patterson and Gimlin.
		Well, the thing is that the two witnesses, Patterson and Gimlin, their story has never changed.
		And even though they have contradicted each other a couple of ways here and there, it's only human nature because no two people see anything the same way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And you have an event, and if you have two people that describe it exactly the same way, they've rehearsed it.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I expect to hear people with little differences like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good point.
		Even the police tell you, you know, eyewitnesses are absolutely, generally, generally, absolutely pretty much unreliable.
		They report different colors of cars, they report different clothing, different everything.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That's why science ignores all the witnesses of the paranormal.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		It's decided a priori at a time that most people are all liars and fools.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		That's right.
		That's exactly what they do.
		Okay.
		You know, is Patterson the best evidence for Bigfoot?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, by far, hands down, in my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hands down.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And that's because I have met Bob Gimlan and spent time with him and asked him all the toughest questions.
		I mean, I was asking him things he didn't remember.
		I probably know more about the film than he does because I've studied it.
		You know, Gimlin wasn't really a Bigfooter.
		Gimlin was a cowboy who met Patterson on the Rodeo scene.
		Patterson, though, would come to Gimlin time and again and try to evangelize Gimlin to join him in searching for Bigfoot.
		Because Patterson was always looking for volunteers to go out in the woods with him and people who might help him with funding.
		And Gimlin was one of those people.
		And Bob Gimlin told me, you know, I had three or four jobs I was working all at the same time.
		I was raising cattle.
		I was training horses for other people.
		And I was tending bar to pay for my child support and alimony.
		I didn't have time to go with Roger in the woods and look for Bigfoot.
		I didn't even believe in it.
		But I did believe that if there was such a thing, Roger was the guy who would be able to prove it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask you about a rumor?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A rumor that there had been by Patterson's wife, I guess, or at least knowledge of it, a deathbed confession by somebody, that the Sasquatch in that film was actually his wife in a gorilla costume.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is an urban myth that I have to work with almost every week in the museum.
		I have to tell people about this because of the way the news media handle it.
		A man named Ray Wallace died around the beginning of the current century.
		He died, and his family went into his Stuff, the boxes in the basement, and they found all this Bigfoot paraphernalia.
		And they knew that Ray liked to tell Bigfoot stories and that he was considered the irascible, lovable Bigfoot guy, Ray Wallace, who always had a Bigfoot story to tell.
		And everybody pretty much knew that he kind of made it up as he went along.
		And he went and carved fake wooden tracks, and then he made molds from them and made plaster casts, which he sold to tourists, claiming they were genuine Bigfoot tracks.
		He filmed his wife in a gorilla suit and sold stills from the film to people, saying these are actual photographs of a Bigfoot.
		And I've seen a few of those pictures actually still on the internet, and some people still think they're real.
		And Wallace was a faker, okay?
		But he was known to be a faker and only fooled a few of the researchers at the beginning.
		And then they caught on, and nobody was fooled anymore by Wallace.
		But when his family saw all his stuff, they decided to give the news media a call, and they announced that Bigfoot was dead because their dad had created the entire Bigfoot myth single-handedly in 1958 in Northern California, Ray Wallace.
		Now, when ABC News told that story on the evening news, I was watching, and as they were telling the story about Ray Wallace and the deathbed confession that he filmed his wife in a costume, they put the Patterson-Gimlin film up on the screen.
		Not related at all to the Wallace story, had nothing to do with it, and taught everyone that there was a deathbed confession.
unidentified		So typical.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Ray Wallace did not on his deathbed say he made up Bigfoot.
unidentified		His family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so typical.
		And the media does this kind of stuff.
		Anytime it comes to the paranormal, any way they can figure out to crush it, they do it.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, yes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		They've been battling this for years now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's just the way they work.
		A quick word.
		I get these computer messages, the wormhole, it's called.
		One Syria says, I have a friend who was chased by one in Tennessee.
		He said he came upon the tallest pile of bones, which is absolutely huge, standing there.
		All of a sudden, by the moment, I guess a Bigfoot came up on him and lunged at him.
		He was on a quad.
		Needless to say, he got out of there really, really quickly.
		So he came upon a pile of bones, and there was a real Bigfoot there.
		Would a Bigfoot, as a human does, mourn one who has passed?
		Is that what he could have come upon?
		I mean, maybe, you know, one of a mate or something died or I don't know.
unidentified		I'm just reading this.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		There are people who claim to have witnessed Bigfoot burials and who claim that the Bigfoot do indeed bury their dead.
		And should they have a stillborn child, they'll bury the child.
		But of course, a great many people in the research community, anytime a person claims to have habituated a Bigfoot and got to know it and spoke to it or spent time with it in any way, shape, or form, they immediately poo-poo that stuff.
		That's considered bogus.
		So your Bigfoot believers, most of them don't even want to talk about UFOs and other paranormal stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
		Although the paranormal part, you almost have to do that a little bit.
		But here's something I want to...
		I mean, people come to you, obviously, with Bigfoot stories, right?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, from all over the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		do you cut through the BS?
		How do you separate the wheat and chaff?
		How do you know when it's a credible story you're hearing versus the other?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, of course, you can never be 100% sure.
		But being now 70 years old, having been, you know, for 50-some years a hobbyist with this, in other words, Bigfoot was my main interest when I wasn't busy.
unidentified		Sure.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Always back to Bigfoot, reading or whatever.
		And then the last 10 years now, all I have been doing is Bigfoot.
		So I think about this when I go to bed.
		I'm still thinking about it when I get up in the morning.
		I go to my computer.
		I check in and see what everybody else is doing.
		Then we have people come in here from 11 to 6 all day long.
		They come in here and they want an education.
		They want to know facts.
		And they come in here wanting to share experiences.
		Quite often those people come in and they won't even talk to me until everybody leaves.
		Then they'll come in and say, I've been wanting to talk to you about this, but I was afraid I couldn't do it with other people around.
		And then they'll spill their guts some kind of outrageous story that would make most people just roll their eyes and invoke woo.
		So I hear all kinds of things, including stories about little gray men with large eyes, abduction scenarios, ghost stories, and stories of other strange creatures.
		I've heard it all.
		And from 1980 to 1994, I read every UFO book that I could get my hands on, and I went to every conference I could go to.
		I met eyewitnesses.
		I talked to authors.
		And I realized that I've got to get into this UFO thing, too, because there's an overlap with the Bigwood thing.
		And then in 1994, I decided, you know what?
		This is too dark because the UFO thing is about night skies.
		Night skies is about military.
		And there's all these shenanigans going on.
		It's like the X-Files when you get into UFO stuff.
		It gets more dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of the X-Files, by the way, the X-Files are coming back.
		Mike, hold on.
		What a great interview.
		My guest is Mike Rugg, and he's a Bigfoot investigator.
		We're going to get around to phone calls, so relax.
		It's coming.
unidentified		And perhaps so is Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really want an encounter?
		If Mike can tell you to have an encounter, would you like to give it a try?
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		We may still have time, but we might still divide.
		Every time I think about it, I won't cry.
		We'll be right back.
		Don't you feel it's running day by day?
		People getting ready for the moon.
		Summer happy, summer sad.
		Oh, let the music play.
		What the people need is a way to make them smile.
		It ain't so hard to do with you now.
		Gotta get a message, get it all through.
		Oh, now mama, come here and ask why.
		Oh, wow, it's a music.
		All the time.
		Thank you.
		To reach midnight in the desert via Skype worldwide, if on a computer, please be sure to use a headphone mic and call MITD51.
		That's M-I-T-D-51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, Donnie writes, Art, I stepped away for a few minutes.
		Did you bring up your Bigfoot map?
		The one you held?
		Donnie and everybody, listen to me.
		I've been asked about this a million times.
		I believe what my friend told me is the truth.
		I did receive a map at the burial site of the Bigfoot people.
		My official story is that I lost it in a movie.
		But I will say this.
		With my official story in mind, if I still had the Bigfoot map, I would still tell the official story.
		It is my position, always has been, and always will be, that it is for bugs to say not me.
		It's too serious a matter.
		It could be human beings of some sort that the man killed.
		It's too serious a matter.
		So you have my official story?
		And that remains my official story.
		Do you understand, Mike, what I'm saying?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
		You know, I had heard through Rumor Mill that some radio DJ who was kind of in competition with you had set this up and did it as a prank to investigate your something.
		This is what I was told.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, there was nothing like that involved in this.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You see how these rumors go?
unidentified		Man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I do.
		And I'm sure that some of that stuff has gone on, but this man was on more than just one show with me.
		I can absolutely get, and plus, I absolutely had the map.
		We had legal consultations that went on behind the scenes.
		This was no prank, I guarantee you.
		However, even today, Mike, if I had that map, I would still tell my official story because I will protect him until the day he decides what he's going to do about this.
		You know, that can't be on me, Mike.
unidentified		It can't.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		No.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're a man of your word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's too serious a matter for someone else to decide.
		So no.
		Anyway, no prank.
		That I absolutely guarantee.
		So this show is rushing by.
		Just not enough time to do anything.
		We don't even have many commercials.
		So where do you go from here in Bigfoot research?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, I will continue to take in the reports and document those.
		We have a map on our wall that has pins in it.
		So when we have a local person come in and tell us about a sighting, we hand them a pin and they put it in the map.
		And you were asking earlier, how do you discern between this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a good story and a bad story, sure.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And, you know, it just really, the only thing I say about that is when you've done this long enough and we've heard enough stories, and when you've been on the planet long enough so that you learn about how people operate and how stories are, you know, it's not real difficult.
		And I'll tell you what, I've had, well, three or four different occasions where people tried to pull the wool over my eyes, where they tried to pull a hoax on me.
		And I think one of them was hoping that I would make a big deal out of it and then he could step forward and discredit me by proving that he had hoaxed me.
		I think this is done sometimes.
		I think this is what happened to Tom Discardi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It happens all the time.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so you get discredited.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In all of these fields, whether it's a baby that looks like an alien or it's a sighting or it's a creature or it's a yes, this occurs all the time to exactly do that, to crush somebody.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know Linda Molenhow ran into that when she was working on an HBO special, and Richard Doty told her he was going to give her a movie, and then when the time came, he said, who are you?
		I don't know what you're talking about.
		And I know that she had some problems for a while because of that incident.
		You know, I was at Stanford at the same time as Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She is so serious about her work, as you know.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very, very serious.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		She was a few years ahead of me, but we did meet there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I have one serious question for you before we begin taking calls, and it's going to come up after the break.
		And we kind of touched on it earlier, but didn't do it real service, and that is, if you want to have a Bigfoot encounter, if you actually want to see one of these things close up, what do you have to do to do it?
		Now, I guess whether it's paranormal or not paranormal will bear on your answer.
		Anyway, what I'd like you to do is think about it during the break.
		And when you come back, we'll describe.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
		Malaysia's Transport Ministry said Thursday that more plane parts have washed up on the same island as a wing part believed with varying degrees of certainty to be from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
		Those new items, which the Malaysians described as pieces of windows, seat cushions, and aluminum, will be tested by the same international team of experts that is examining a piece of wing that Malaysia said Wednesday is definitely from MH370.
		Though the Malaysian Prime Minister announced that the wing part called a flavor on is certainly from MH370, other officials have expressed more caution and say that more testing is needed.
		The Boeing 777 carrying 239 people disappeared on a flight from Koela Lumpur, Malaysia to Beijing on March 8th, 2014.
		Scientists have just found the biggest thing in the universe, a vast mysterious ring 5 billion light years across.
		It's so big that the researchers have no idea why it exists, and it contradicts all current models of the universe.
		The vast, mysterious object is reminiscent of the halo rings in the hit science fiction game series.
		The ring of nine vast cataclysmic explosions is about 7 billion light years from Earth and covers an area of sky more than 70 times the diameter of the full moon.
		Each of the gamma-ray bursts releases as much energy in a few seconds as the sun will do over its 10 billion year lifetime.
		Gamma-ray bursts, the most luminous events in the universe, are thought to be the result of massive stars collapsing into black holes.
		It challenges current theories about the makeup of the universe, which sets a theoretical limit of 1.2 billion light years for the largest structures.
		The team now wants to establish whether known processes of galaxy formation and large-scale structure could have led to the ring's creation.
		If this proves not to be the case, astronomers will radically have to revise their theories about the evolution of the universe.
		Got news tips, questions, or comments?
		Visit darknewsmatters.com.
		Crime sentencing has long been based on the present crime and sometimes the defendant's past criminal record.
		In Pennsylvania, judges could soon consider a new dimension, the future.
		Pennsylvania is on the verge of becoming one of the first states in the country to base criminal sentences not only on what crimes people have committed and been convicted of, but also on whether they are deemed likely to commit additional crimes.
		As early as next year, judges there could receive statistically derived tools known as risk assessments to Help them decide how much prison time, if any, to assign.
		Centuries after raging millions, the plague has come to modern-day Colorado, leaving a devastated family behind after their loved ones succumbed to the disease.
		The Pueblo City County Health Department announced Wednesday that an adult had died from the plague, a disease that has a long and sordid history, albeit not one typically associated with modern times or developed countries like the United States.
		The agency said in a press release that the individual may have contracted the disease from fleas from a dead rodent or animal.
		It's the first such case of someone in Pueblo County contracting the plague since 2004.
		A dead prairie dog in the western part of Pueblo County is the only animal thus far confirmed to have the plague in the immediate area.
		The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found in a report released April 30th that a pit bull was at the heart of a plague outbreak that sickened four people last year.
		That report was especially significant in that it suggested that there might be a human-to-human transmission.
		That hasn't happened in the United States since 1924.
		The dog-to-human transmission was unexpected, according to Colorado's Tri-County Health Department.
		The team that investigated the case said they could only find one other case of dog-to-human transmission in the medical literature.
		That was a 2009 case in China.
		The CDC says about seven people get the plague every year in the United States, over 80% of which has been in the bubonic form.
		While it can be life-threatening, with modern medicines such as antibiotics and antimicrobials, it is usually not deadly, as it was in the Middle Ages when millions died.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News
		Dark Matter News Want to take a ride?
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket when you call 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Mike Rugg is here.
		He's as close to an expert on Bigfoot as anybody can be.
		He runs a Bigfoot Museum up in the mountains in Santa Cruz.
		He's the co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project.
		And so he knows as much as a person is likely to know, and we're opening the line.
		So here is the deal.
		Public line, area code 952-225-5278.
		Our Skype lines are as follows.
		In North America, America, and Canada, it would be M-I-T-D 51.
		M-I-T-D-51.
		Outside of North America, rest of the world, anywhere, it's M-I-T-D55.
		M-I-T-D 55.
		And back to Mike for one question just before we get going, and that is, if you were to sit down and write a manual or maybe just a PDF on how to have a Bigfoot encounter, what would it sound like?
		How would you advise me if I wanted to have an encounter, and I really don't like, but if I did, yes, how would you advise me?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would tell you, first of all, that you have to do your homework, and that entails finding an area that's close to where you are, because the farther away, of course, the less chance you've got to go there.
		Find an area as close as you can that has a history of Bigfoot sightings.
		Now, for me, that's easy because I have a museum with a map on the wall, and I have people coming in here all the time and telling me they saw one in their backyard.
		And so when that happens, I go to their backyard, and I hang out there and see if something happens.
		I've done that numerous times, and I've had things happen.
		And so if they came to the Santa Cruz area, for example, and they came in here, I could show them on the map where these sightings have happened in the past and over and over and over again.
		And when they're seen many times in one place, it kind of gives you a clue as to the fact they might be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the paranormal aspect, Mike?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the paranormal aspect, what I would do about that is I would say that when you go out and you're trying to contact Bigwood, then what you would preferably do rather than caulking and cleaning your gun or shining a bright light into the forest is that you would sit there quietly in the dark and either meditate or play a musical instrument or do something to try and get into something like an alpha state and
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		be thinking kind thoughts about the Bigfoot.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And final, I promise, last question before I give you to the audience, and that is, do you think that these creatures can sense, well, I'm going to have one more question, darn it, can sense whether you have goodwill or bad intent?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I think that if such a thing is possible, then these guys would be able to do that.
		I think that these people still have, I'm calling them people, I like to think of them as forest people.
		I think that they have all the powers, the animal powers that we lost.
		You know, when we invented technology at all, our other senses started atrophying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That's why animals can hear, see, smell, all of their senses are spirit to ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have a little bit of it left, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, if there's somebody coming to do you harm, in general, most People can feel that before they know it for sure.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
		Yeah.
		Yeah, you get vibes.
		And so, yeah, I mean, if a human being is capable of getting feelings like that and having warnings, then, you know, you can be sure the Sasquatch can do it.
		They're more in touch with the natural side of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I think that I demonstrated probably very abruptly and a little scarily to most people how they sound.
		What I don't know, Mike, is how do they, this is my last question, how do they smell?
		Can you describe the smell?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the smell, what I would say is this.
		A Sasquatch, normal circumstances, alone in the woods, is going to smell kind of like a barnyard animal.
		You're going to be able to smell his sweat.
		You're going to be able to smell other things that are clinging to his hair.
		And he would have a musky animal-like smell.
		But this stench that takes away your breath and can cause you to be a little light-headed and confused, that is a function of the fight-or-flight scenario.
		So when the Bigfoot is stressed, afraid, to put it in simple terms, and he's got to either pull your arms off or run away, he has this odor that comes out.
		Now, Diane Fossey reported this with the mountain gorillas.
		Two mountain gorillas have a musky smell, but when two of them are fighting over a harem, they both put out a putrid odor.
		And that odor, I would say, would be like the worst human BO you've ever smelt, combined with a touch of skunkiness that had rolled in a dead animal and crawled around in a sewer.
		It's a very strong smell.
		And, you know, and it has a quality to, like I say, take your breath away.
		I think that they also indulge in a little infrasound.
		They hit you with a low-frequency sound that causes a wave of fear to go over your body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure they'd need for that to pass over my body.
		All right.
		Off we go to Skype and Will, somebody named Will.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Roswell's TN.
unidentified		It's great to hear you on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		The technology that you're using and the quality of the signal is just amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is amazing.
		You're right about that, Will.
		It is astounding.
		Anyway, do you have a question?
unidentified		I was listening to a replay a few weeks ago of your interview with Bugs, and I will say that is the most convincing story I've ever heard of anyone out, any Bigfoot story I've ever heard.
		Oh, yeah.
		I did a little bit.
		I was just piqued my curiosity so much that I did some online research.
		And similar to what Ed was saying earlier, there was this radio personality in West Texas named Ed Hale, who after he was on the radio and people noticed his voice sounded very similar to Bugs out at him.
		And he did, I don't know if he, you may know if he really is Bugs, but he admitted to it.
		But he says that the feds came to his house, took him out, made him dig up the bodies, and he no longer has any evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all nonsense.
		It was not a hoax.
		I can tell you that because of everything that happened behind the scenes.
		We were talking to lawyers.
		We were doing all kinds of things with bugs.
		No, no, no, no.
		This was not any hoax.
unidentified		Well, Ed Hale may be a conjob then, but listening to your show, it is the most convincing story.
		And his knowledge about hunting and his story, it just made a lot of sense.
		Very credible guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, people also thought that Whitley was Victor and on and on and on.
		They think they recognize voices.
		Trust me, Will.
		I'm telling you, from behind-the-scenes stuff.
		And there was a lot of it.
		It was no hoax.
unidentified		Well, thank you.
		Thank you very much, Art.
		And I just can't say how much I enjoy your show.
		So thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		Thank you for making it.
		And let's go, gosh, I don't know.
		Let's take a chance and go to Amarillo, Texas on the phone.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, this is Guy at Amarillo.
		I wonder if you all might talk about the work of Melba Ketchum and some of the DNA tests that she's been conducting recently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that Mike might just know something about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mike, do you?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Of course, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, tell us what you can.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, Melba Ketchum had a little business where she did animal identification from DNA samples.
unidentified		Right.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		She was first approached by Josh Gates, Destination Truth television show.
		He gave her some hairs, purported to be from a Yeti.
		She tested them and said that they were definitely anomalous and seemed to react positive with human markers.
		She didn't expect that, so she suddenly became interested in the Bigfoot stuff for the first time.
		So then David Pilates went to her and gave her another sample, which she found to be strange and seemed to be in the human category, but not a human.
		And she thought, well, we should really start to look into this.
		So she put out the word, and I, amongst many, many other people across North America and Canada, provided her with sample material that we had gathered.
		I sent her, through a long process, part of the tooth that we have on the website there.
		She got some of the center of the pulp out of the tooth in a sealed sterile envelope turned over to her.
		She never did use it, though, in her tests, but she did get over 110 samples.
		She vetted those down to about the best 30 or so, I don't know exactly.
		And then gave the samples to three different forensics labs on three different campuses and asked them to pull full genome sequences.
		And luckily, a man named Wally Hurston was willing to pay the bill to get this done.
		This costs thousands of dollars.
		That's why it's never been done before.
		And so they pulled full genomes according to the paper that she wrote on it and published for peer review.
		And they came up, all of them with the same results.
		It was a blind study.
		They didn't know what they were looking for.
		And they asked her, What is this stuff you gave us?
		It seems to be half human and half something we can't identify.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And so as it turned out, the X chromosomes appeared to be 100% Homo sapiens, but the Y chromosome was off the charts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning off the human charts.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Didn't match up with humans, didn't match Neanderthals, didn't match Denisovans.
unidentified		Wow.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Didn't match apes, gorillas, chimps, none of the above.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so is that where it stops?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		But it's about 60,000 years old.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		So what she says in essence is Bigfoot is a hybrid cross between a human and apparently a leftover Ice Age caveman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's kind of what I thought he was in the first place.
unidentified		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Incredible.
		And incredible that this creature could still be walking the earth.
		That's just amazing.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's because they were smart enough to hide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Instead of the Neanderthals didn't hide, they're gone.
		The Native Americans, they fought us there on reservations.
		The Bigfoot hid, and he's still free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Brian, your turn with Mike.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Wow, this is an honor to be speaking with you.
		I'm a longtime listener since 97.
		First time caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		What's a trucker?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in a truck?
unidentified		Oh, yes, I'm a trucker in Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear it, brother.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're my first trucker on this program.
unidentified		Gotcha.
unidentified		Well, nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Congratulations.
unidentified		Texas.
		And I usually listen on 1200 WOAI, but that other show with Snorri is on.
		So hopefully you make a strong comeback and replace his, sorry, a t-star.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, how are you listening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're like on 4G or LTE or something?
unidentified		4G.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		4G.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we're everywhere.
		We're everywhere.
		So all we've got to do is get the word out.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you've got Mike here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got Mike.
unidentified		I was calling tonight because it's an interesting show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I'm enjoying it.
		And I wanted to say that George Lucas actually believed in Yeti and Sasquatch, Bigfoot.
		In episode 5, he had Yeti dragging Luke off into a cave.
		And Sasquatch made an appearance in every one of his shows.
		You would know him as Chewbacca.
		You know?
		So George Lucas really believed in this himself.
		And there's a lot of famous people out there that believe in it, as well as a lot of people that, you know, like myself and yourself.
		I enjoyed the show, and I just want to make a shout out to my brother Billy.
		I'm on the show, bro.
		This is great.
		It was awesome being on with you.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		And good luck, buddy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My first trucker.
		Thank you.
		Thank you very much.
		And I want to note that not only is the quality of the audio that we get, no matter who it would be, even a trucker as you just heard, going down the highway, but the intellectual quality of the callers is also really off the charts.
		So thank you all.
		Let's go to Everett, Washington, Northwest Country.
		You're on the air with Mike Rugg.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everett, Washington.
		Whoops.
		No, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going twice.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy, that was close.
unidentified		Sally, I'm getting you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you should be turning off your device.
		Yes, turn off your device.
		It's off.
		Okay.
		Proceed.
unidentified		What I'm getting is you double.
unidentified		getting part of the show from about 10 minutes ago, and now you live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, do you have a question about Bigfoot?
unidentified		Now I'm on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please turn it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, do you have a question about Bigfoot for Mike?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fire away.
		Stop listening to that.
		Ask your question.
		I fear he's going to.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to go.
unidentified		We're waiting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two.
unidentified		Let me try this with two or three.
unidentified		Let me try this with two or three conversations going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's hard.
		Do you have a question, sir?
		No, you don't.
		He's just not going to make it.
		Here's the deal, folks.
		Let me lay it out for you.
		When we're here talking here in my studio, every word we say is going to come out about a minute later on your device, whether it be a phone, a computer, some sort of pad, whatever it is you're listening on.
		God knows you can listen on about anything.
		So the moment you actually connect with the show, you have got to turn that off.
		And if you don't, you're going to be hopelessly confused and sound like that man.
		And you don't want to do that.
		He was obviously a bright guy.
		He just couldn't take the fact that he was being delayed like that.
		Let's go to Flagstaff, Arizona, and hope for the best.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey, Art.
		First and foremost, I want to welcome you back, the godfather of talk radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		You are the man.
		You are the Don Corleone.
		To Mike, I don't know if he's familiar or not with the Southon Project out of Idaho State University, and if he thinks that the way that we're going to find or identify Bigfoot, not through use of weapons or use of stocking, but through drones or this 48-foot-long blimp That they're using with night vision, scopes, everything.
		Are we going to find it through technology in this modern world that we're living in?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, that remains to be seen.
		I personally think that flying over a forest is not necessarily going to be that productive.
		We have all kinds of downed planes that are lost in the mountains, and they have search groups out and rescue people looking for these planes.
		They're flying around, and they can't find these planes.
		That's because the tops of the trees provide an awful lot of cover, and so you're going to have to be looking down at areas that are open and uncovered.
		And of course, you could go over an area, and with a thermal imager or something, in the middle of the night, and a stealthy blimp catch a glimpse of a susquez under the trees.
		But I just don't think it's all.
unidentified		Some drones that are out there nowadays, especially using FLIR or looking infrared, I mean, you can pick up a signature of a missing child.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can, but you know, when they're in dense forests, I understand even with FLUR, they have a lot of difficulty.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not saying you couldn't do that.
		I'm saying that with a blimp, I just don't think that's the answer.
		I think drones are a more reasonable answer, but we're already having trouble with these drones getting into flying space and so forth.
unidentified		Right.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I think it's crazy out there with drones everywhere.
		But a drone has been used by the BFRO.
		They've tried that.
		And the concept of putting a thermal on a drone and sending it out, as long as the drone isn't making a lot of noise, you could probably just assume that.
unidentified		So there might be a possibility that with the use of drones or with this Idaho State University Blimp, 48 for the Blimp, that we might be able to capture these images and be able to give this to the world, this evidence, this empirical evidence that we need to prove that this creature exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
		Thank you very much, Haller.
		My guest is Michael Rugg, co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, and he knows a lot about this creature.
		He's our guy.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		Another day, goodbye.
		Another day, goodbye.
		Every time I think I've had enough, it's hard to let it go.
		I used to be your roller don't know if the calls are right.
		I need to find an answer on the road.
		I used to be your heart for number one for the time to change all my work and done.
		Cause I'm living free And still I don't need a freedom Midnight matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness like Art Bell.
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALLART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		And even, I guess, if you're rolling in a truck, it can be done.
		Just heard amazing.
		Skype is in North America, MITD51.
		That's the way to call us.
		Just put in MITD51.
		You can search it.
		You'll find it.
		Put it on your list.
		Call us when you want.
		Outside North America, the rest of the world, it's MITD55.
		M-I-T-D-5-5.
		And here comes Mike again.
		So, Mike, here comes a caller for you.
		I'm not sure who it is.
		I think it's Arnie B. is what it says.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey, Arn.
		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Las Vegas over the hump from Toronto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in Las Vegas?
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		Well, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area.
		I'm 63 years old.
		My and I used to go fishing every Friday afternoon.
		We used to have a great time.
		I went up in the up in Northern California.
		And I got to say, I never seen other than just regular critters for 15, 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you called to say you've never seen Bigfoot?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very much.
		I appreciate it.
		And good luck in the future if you want to see Bigfoot.
		I'm not sure why you would call to say you've never seen Bigfoot because that would comprise, I would think, a high, high percentage of the population.
		So while I appreciate your call, I'm not sure about it.
		Let's go to Fargo, North Dakota on the phone and say hi.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, sir.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		My question is for Mike regarding Sasquatch using not only spoken language, but also written language.
		And when I say written language, I mean by like small stick arrangements in spoken language, I mean by their own language, which may be the Sierra recordings, which some are familiar with, but also there's many people that say, including myself, that they speak in our languages.
		So I I know that Mike thinks that they are an archaic human, which I believe as such, and humans, well, they speak and they write.
		And so I want to hear Mike's thoughts on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A really good question, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do we know about their forms of communication, Mike, either written or vocal?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, both the things he mentioned I'm familiar with.
		There's a man named Scott Nelson who is a linguist by trade.
		He teaches five languages at a small college in Missouri, among them ancient Persian.
		He was a crypto-linguist in the Navy, where he was given special software that he used to listen to recordings of people speaking in any and any language.
		And his job was to analyze those recordings of those conversations and try and figure out if there was any code in there, any secret messages being tried to be put across.
		So what we have here is a linguist with a very deep set of skills, deeper than the average linguist.
		And he heard some of the Sierra sounds, what they call the samurai sounds, where the Sasquatch is talking, and it sounds like John Belushi playing the samurai guy.
		And so when he heard that, he was immediately piqued.
		He had to hear more.
		So he went to the two men who had the recordings, Ron Moorhead and Al Berry, and said, can I have the original tapes so I can feed it through my Navy software and then analyze it?
		They said, oh my God, yes, you're just exactly the kind of person we've been looking for.
		These tapes have been around for almost 50 years.
		And so he took on the project, started listening to these tapes, and then he published a couple of papers for peer review stating that the Bigfoot have language.
		And so we heard about this, and I mentioned it to a few of my science friends, and they, of course, made their inimitable remark about, well, just because the guy teaches language doesn't mean he's not a flake.
		So I said, okay, well, then let's invite him out here in person so we can see if he's a flake or not.
		So we had a conference, and I invited Scott Nelson here, and he struck me as anything but a flake.
		He's a very nice man, easy to get to know.
		He's very open about his work, very skilled as a linguist.
		And he said that the Sasquatch tapes that he has been studying indicate that the Sasquatch speak with a basic Native American combined with a bit of Spanish, a little bit of pidgin English, a very small amount of just a dab of Chinese, and a lot of animal mimicry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that would actually make sense.
		They don't mingle really, and so they would pick up only little bits and pieces of different things, which is just what you said.
		All right.
		Claire on Skype, you're on the air with Mike.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
		Art, I love you, Art.
		Thank you.
		I've been listening to you for so long.
		I'm so excited right now.
		I love you.
		I'm so happy you're back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And great.
		Good luck with the show.
		I just had a question.
		There was a recent discovery of some supposed bones that they believe Bigfoot may have been actually chewing on.
		And I forget the name of the person who discovered them, but they have the bones and the actual marks on the bones or from an extremely large Homo sapien-type creature.
		I was just wondering if you knew about that and if you had anything to say about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think Michael had a lot to say about it.
		Did you go to artbell.com and take a look at some of the mandibles and the things he's got up there?
		If not, go to artbell.com.
		He's got teeth up there.
		He's got mandibles.
unidentified		You're really going to want to look.
		I'll definitely look.
		It's a little bit more.
		I give them on the iPad, and I've got TuneIn on and Skype, and definitely take a look at that.
		And thank you so much, Mark, for answering my question.
		I love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't really answered it yet, but we're going to try.
		Okay, take care.
		So, Mike, I haven't heard anything about that.
		She was talking about somebody who actually has bones that they believe were chewed on by Bigfoot.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You know, I have to admit this is a story that I'm not up to date on.
		I just recently heard something about this, and I can't speak from any knowledge of whether it's a credible story or not.
		But I'll tell you what I've learned is anything on the internet, you can go ahead and flip a coin, and it's 50-50 if it's worth its weight at all, as far as the Bigfoot stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but this is not something you've heard about.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I haven't no particular information about this particular story.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		No, so I can't comment on that intelligently.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Danville, Virginia, I think, on the phone.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		I want to say thank God you're back on that first of all.
		You know what I mean by that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		But I lived in southern Virginia in 1974 to 76, and I wish I could do a whole show with you guests.
unidentified		We were a bunch of teenage boys, and we had dirt bikes and trail bikes, and we stayed in the woods more than we stayed at home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And there was one of these things that migrated through Danville, Virginia.
unidentified		And we've seen it so many times, and we tried to tell our parents about it, and they said it's just somebody in the big coat trying to scare you, that type thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it is, you would describe this as a Bigfoot?
unidentified		The Patterson film, I seen that exact thing standing 15 feet from it, except it did not have the breasts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		15 feet.
		I've seen it.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Mike, you hear people with stories like this.
unidentified		What questions would you ask him?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would try to find out what time of day it was and, you know, where the spot, you know, and just to see how it might come about.
		He said he's having multiple sites.
		Did you see it more than once?
unidentified		Yes, we've seen it over a period of about two years to sang migrates through that area.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You said we, how many people are we talking about?
unidentified		Five to six.
		It was just local neighborhood boys.
		We all had dirt bikes and trail bikes.
		We spent a lot of time in the woods.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And so when you saw it, what sort of...
unidentified		Mainly it looked like it was observing us.
		It was looking at us and watching what we were doing.
		And it was never violet, except one time, if you could call it violet, it started throwing rocks at us down on the creek.
		We were having a little cookout, little party type there.
		And it started, rocks started sailing through the top of the trees.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Were you playing loud music or anything?
unidentified		No, just a bunch of boys sitting around laughing and talking, roasting the wingies on the fire.
unidentified		You know how that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's kind of like loud music.
unidentified		Well, this is what it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mike.
		Okay, hold on.
		Yeah, I hear you.
		Mike, have there been other reports of these creatures throwing rocks?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, rock throwing is quite common.
		And what that generally means is the Bigfoot is letting you know that you're not wanted here, that you're bothering him in some way, shape, or form.
		Maybe he didn't like the sound of what you guys were talking about or the smell of your jib.
		I don't know.
		He, for some reason, was trying to make you think about maybe moving on down the road.
		That's generally what it's about.
unidentified		And they will throw a pretty good...
		The only emotion that we ever got out of this thing was sheer terror.
		And the rocks it was throwing were half the size of basketballs.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but did they hit you?
unidentified		No.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		They did not.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		No, they never hit you.
unidentified		They did not.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		They probably came close, but they didn't hit you.
		And that's the way it always is.
		They'll throw rocks.
unidentified		Go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Both of you cannot speak at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you go ahead and say what you want, Collera, and then Michael's.
unidentified		Okay?
		The night that I observed it, it was late night, and I was right in the edge of the woods there.
		And this thing, it was an old abandoned tobacco road.
		Do you know how grown-up dirt road looks, how wide it is?
		Oh, yes.
		I had a flashlight going from side to side because I was scared to death who was going to run into it.
		And this thing took one step sideways, and it was in the middle of that road.
		And it was about 15 feet from me.
		And it terrified me.
		It stood there and looked down at me.
		It didn't move.
		It didn't die a costume.
		It just stood there and looked at me.
		And I turned and ran in sheer terror.
		And I was 16 years old then.
		And I've never been back down in that area since then, to be honest with you.
		Not at night, not by myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't blame you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sounds like a real story, Mike.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it sounds real to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, any other questions?
unidentified		Me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Mike.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, was the area where this was happening a fairly remote area?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Were there any homes nearby?
unidentified		No, this place.
unidentified		Alabama, Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now you're breaking up a little bit.
		Okay, so no.
		It was way out in the middle of nowhere.
		Very interesting story, and the guy sounded legit to me.
		So there you go.
		I think once it opens up, once one person starts to tell a story, it'll usually bring others who suddenly get brave.
		It just works that way.
		Nick on Skype, you're on the air with Mike.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey.
unidentified		I've never seen a Sasquatch myself, but I just wondered if Mike has ever heard of reports of them around glowing orbs and UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean associated with UFOs or glowing orbs?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess it's actually a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mike, how often do you hear, thank you, Nick, how often do you hear of a mixture going on?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one of the rare things, but I do hear them.
		Of course, there was a story out of Ohio, Rome, Ohio, that involved glowing orbs and Bigfoot tracks that glowed in the dark.
		And then when some investigators went there, one of them was rolling on the ground and speaking in tongues as if it had been possessed.
		There was a whole series of strangeness associated with it.
		And there were several people, investigators, who went out and studied it, and it was written up in a little pamphlet.
		And I have had people come in here who claim they have been in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
		A woman claims she saw an orange orb and saw 30 individuals come out of the orb dressed in hoods.
		And then the hoods were shed, and they were suddenly little aliens with large black eyes.
		This little alien did a little dance for her and kind of went in and out of reality for her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we sure she wasn't going in and out of reality?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, I asked for sure what drugs she may have been experiencing.
		She said, no, this all happened while she was completely sober.
		Another man told me he saw a Bigfoot that was, well, he said, I don't know how to describe it, except that my headlights went right through it, but I could see its outline.
		And I picture the Predator movie, you know, the creature while it's close.
		Oh, yes.
		And he had a witness with him in the car, and she claimed that she saw the Bigfoot kneeling at the side of the road before it went in front of the headlights, and she could see it, and it just looked like a normal flesh-and-blood Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		It was invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we've got to break your mic, so hold tight.
		Bigfoot is the subject.
		Michael Rugg is my guest.
		This, of course, is midnight in the desert, in the night.
unidentified		The lightning rings like a whale with a lion, wouldn't you love the lover?
		Facing the sky like a bird is riding, who will be her lover?
		Well, your life you've never seen, woman, drink by the wind.
		What you say, she promised you ever.
		We ever win.
		She is like a cat in the darkness.
		She is the darkness.
		She was alive like a sunset loving when side solves.
		I'll let you never...
		Midnight in the desert is a wild trip across the day's divisor.
		Get your ticket to ride by calling 1-952-Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael Rugg is my guest.
		He's co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project and curator of the museum up in the Santa Cruz Mountains, Bigfoot Museum.
		He's got a number of items on display there.
		You can see some of them up on artbell.com right now.
		So welcome back, Mike.
		It's really good to have you.
		And I guess you're hoping, Mike, that in your lifetime, what remains of your lifetime, you get to see an actual Bigfoot, right?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
		That's, well, you know, we talk about the bullet list.
		For me, the bullet list, number one, is to see this thing established.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said bullet.
		Bullet, bullet.
		Actually, it's bullets.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, excuse the.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bullet list.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That makes me think you've got bullets and guns on your mind.
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a bucket list.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That definitely was a faux pas there, wasn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, it's on your bucket list.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		My bucket list, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Ben, no idea where you are, but you're on the air with Mike.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Ben in Tucson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Oh, just by the way, excellent shows, incredible shows.
		Dave Twinkle Toes is shaking in his boots.
		I got to tell you right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, thank you.
unidentified		Yeah, so my question is, there are literally millions of trail cameras out there everywhere, put by hunters, conservationists, game wardens, U.S. Forest Service.
unidentified		Why haven't they caught something conclusive on trail cams?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
		Very good, actually.
		Mike, what do you think?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think because they don't attempt to hide them.
		They put the trail cam up on the tree just like they would for a deer or a cougar.
		The deer comes walking along, walks right up to the trail cam, looks right at it, no big deal.
		They don't have the intelligence to be able to consider that it might be, because it's a man-made device, some kind of a threat.
		The sausage clutch, whether they're human or primate, either way, I think they can recognize a game camera as being man-made and not properly in the wooded environment and sticks out like a sore thumb.
		And so they don't go near it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sarah.
		All right.
		Up to Everett Washington.
		You're on the air with Mike.
unidentified		Hi.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		It's a pleasure to speak with you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Quick question for Mike.
		You were asked earlier by Art about the nature of Sasquatch, whether they were docile or not.
		And you provided us with a story from quite a while ago.
		A few moments later, you mentioned David Pilates' name.
		And of course, Dave has made a career.
		I don't know him.
		Mr. Pilates has made a career out of documenting disappearances, which he attributes to Bigfoot.
		And I'm wondering if you think his work is bogus, or do you put any credence in it whatsoever?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do know Dave Pilates personally.
		I've had some business with him, and we have had some agreements and disagreements about Sasquatch.
		And he wrote a book about missing people.
		But in all the interviews that I've heard, when the interviewer tries to back him up against the wall and get him to say it's Bigfoot, my impression is that he says, no, I don't really think it's necessarily Bigfoot.
		As a matter of fact, I think it has more to do with things like cattle mutilations.
		And I don't think that he is saying in his books that Bigfoot is stealing all these people.
		I think the Bigfoot are smart enough to know that if they pick us off one by one, one of these days we're going to get a wind on it, and then that's over for them.
		I think they're smart enough to leave us alone.
		That's what they've decided to do, and that's what they continue to do.
		Now, that's not to say there might be a rogue Bigfoot who's got a thorn up his rear end or he has sexual desires for a particular person or something and goes nuts.
		I mean, if people can do it, so could a Bigfoot.
		So I can't say it's never going to happen, but I just don't think that's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're going to have them on the show.
		We'll ask about that, I promise.
		On Skype, somewhere or another, Alistair, hello.
unidentified		Hey, Oz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get and close to the microphone on your computer, please.
unidentified		Can you hear me now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you sound like you're in a tunnel, so you've got to get close to that mic, but I can hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you located?
unidentified		I'm in South Africa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		South.
		Oh, well, you're our first South African caller.
		Welcome to the show.
unidentified		Thank you, Arch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And go ahead, if you have a question about Bigfoot, are there any stories in South Africa about creatures of this sort?
unidentified		Yes, there is.
		Not by Bigfoot as such, but there's another creature called a Torcolosh, which is pretty cool.
		But I just wanted to ask a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Do you still have that sound clip that Linda Moulton Howe played about the Bigfoot?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I played it earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hate to subject people to that twice.
unidentified		It's pretty awful.
		Oh, okay.
		Cool.
		Sorry, I missed the beginning of the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can always catch the podcast later, and it'll be in there.
		And it's a frightening sound, and we've got pretty good fidelity on this program, so it's awful to hear.
		Anyway, how did you hear about us, if I can ask, in South Africa?
		How did you even learn about us?
unidentified		Well, I've been listening to you since just before you left coast to coast, and my friends have been listening to your classic shows.
		And I first heard about you because of Whitley Striber.
		I loved his books and heard you.
		And yeah, that's that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What am I hearing in the background?
unidentified		Oh, sorry about that.
unidentified		It's my cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was your cat?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very, very much for the call.
		That was a cat, really.
		South Africa.
		Sorry, Mike.
		That was the first call I've had from South Africa.
		Let's go to, oh my, where am I going?
		Let's see.
		I think we've got somebody else on Skype, and I think I just succeeded in putting them on.
		It's my fault.
		I'm sorry.
		I put somebody on hold by mistake.
		Hello there.
		Whoever you are, you're on the air on Skype.
		Well, I thought you were anyway.
		Skinny Bob, I think, is the one on the air.
		Skinny Bob, are you there?
		No, Skinny Bob is not there.
		Too bad.
		Michael, I bet, though, is there.
		Hello, Michael.
		You're on with Michael.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Greetings from Nacogdosis, Texas, longtime listener and glad you're back on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I just wondered about the probability or possibility, as the case may be, of using Google Earth or satellite imaging, some sort of photographic evidence from that perspective to sort of isolate or identify instances of Bigfoot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, you know, before you go, Google Earth takes pictures of the Earth, right?
		But they're just sort of taken whenever they're taken.
		Usually they're old pictures or, you know, a few months old at least.
		And so you mean searching those?
		I don't think there's enough definition in Google Earth presently to find them.
		Certainly the military would be able to see them, no question of that.
		But you're talking about whatever kind of modern technology we could apply to it.
unidentified		Right.
		Totally agree.
		I mean, if we could somehow isolate specific regions, which I think that we probably have, and I don't know, you're talking about vast quantities of land area, of course.
		But I just wondered if there wouldn't be a more scientific way to sort of verify the existence of these creatures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very, very good question.
		So new science, Mike.
		What do you think?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the man earlier brought up the drones.
unidentified		Yes.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And it's been my opinion for quite some time that if you do the research, you find an area where you believe there is a Bigfoot presence, that if you could somehow fly over that area quietly in the middle of the night with a thermal imaging device, you could probably and possibly pick up the heat signature of these animals.
		Then what I think you would have to have would be a platoon full of paratroopers with nets.
		And you could then drop them down there and lasso one.
		And I suspect the military has done that already.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the drone is pretty easy.
		I've got a drone, though I wouldn't risk it in the forest.
		Looking down with heat.
		Anyway, we'll be right back.
		We've got a break.
unidentified		This is midnight.
		Down around the corner, half a mile from here.
		We've done both been run, and there's more to me to come here.
		About love, where would you be now?
		About love.
		No, I'm sorry, too.
		Oh, my God.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
		On this day in 1945, at 8:16 a.m.
		Japanese time, an American B-29 bomber, the Enola Gay, drops the world's first atom bomb over the city of Hiroshima.
		Approximately 80,000 people are killed as a direct result of the blast, and another 35,000 are injured.
		At least another 60,000 would be dead by the end of the year from the effects of the fallout.
		U.S. President Harry S. Truman, discouraged by the Japanese response to the Potsdam Conference's demand for unconditional surrender, made the decision to use the atom bomb to end the war in order to prevent what he predicted would be a much greater loss of life were the United States to invade the Japanese mainland.
		And so on August 5th, while a conventional bombing of Japan was underway, Little Boy, the nickname of one of the two atom bombs available for use against Japan, was loaded onto Lieutenant Colonel Paul W. Tibbett's plane on the Tinian Island in the Marianas.
		Tibbets B-29, named the Enola Gay after his mother, left the island at 2.45 a.m. on August 6th.
		Five and a half hours later, Little Boy was dropped, exploding 1,900 feet over a hospital and unleashing the equivalent of 12,500 tons of TNT.
		The bomb had several inscriptions scribbled on its shell, one of which reads, Greetings to the Emperor from the men of Indianapolis, the ship that transported the bomb to the Marianas.
		There were 90,000 buildings in Hiroshima before the bomb was dropped.
		Only 28,000 remained after the bombing.
		Of the city's 200 doctors before the explosion, only 20 were left alive or capable of working.
		There were 1,780 nurses before, only 150 remained, left to tend to the sick and dying.
		You're listening to Dark Matter News on Art Bells, Midnight in the Desert.
		Got paranormal news tips, strange news?
		Take a look at past and future programs at darkmatternews.com.
		Less than two months after SoftBanker's Pepper Robot went on sale in Japan, another intelligent humanoid is posed to make its way into Asia.
		That's because Boston-based Jeebo just closed an $11 million strategic investment round to eventually bring its social robot to households in Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and China.
		Jeebo started out as an Indiegogo-Go project for a robotic smart assistant that can help families.
		After pulling in a whopping $3.7 million from its crowdfunding campaign, massively exceeding its $100,000 target, the company went on to land a $25.3 million funding round led by RRE Ventures in January of this year to kick things up a notch.
		Jeebo said the fully-fledged version will provide a range of different interactions, such as handling reminders, ordering food, taking photos and videos, and other everyday assistant tasks like sending email, connecting with the internet, or facilitating communication.
		Like Pepper, it could provide a friendly and easy-to-use interface for seniors looking to keep in touch with family or keep their routine organized using the internet.
		Earth may have a hairy mane of dark matter flowing around it.
		While that's quite an image to imagine, nearly 85% of the matter in the universe is thought to be so-called dark matter, stuff that has not yet been detected directly because it only interacts with normal matter via gravity.
		Rather than being distributed smoothly through galaxies, simulations show that dark matter particles should clump into features like halos, disks, and streams.
		Gary Prezu at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California wondered what would happen if a stream of dark matter pierced a planet like Earth.
		He calculated that the planet's gravity would bend the particles' trajectories and focus them to a point.
		This lensing effect would concentrate dark matter along an axis passing through Earth's core, reaching densities about a billion times more than average at the focal point.
		Prezu calls these features hairs.
		The focus or root of one such hair would be about a million kilometers above Earth, just beyond the moon.
		If you find where these hairs are, you can put a detector right in front of one of them, he says.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News
		Dark Matter News Come on, men and women, Skybuff.
		Call Midnight in the Desert at MITD 51.
		That's MITD 51.
		That's right.
		Skybuff out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love the way he puts that.
		What a voice.
		Mike Rugg is my guest, and he's here right now.
		Back to Mike and questions from all over the place, including from, looks like Steve somewhere.
		Steve, hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Hi, Rosswells again.
		Hi, calling from Germany again.
		We talked yesterday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We did Germany.
unidentified		Well, I had a few small questions.
		My first question would be, have there been any reportings of Bigfoot in Germany?
		Second question would be for Mike, whatever happened to this Bigfoot I thought they caught.
		I was following for a while, but her name was supposed to be Daisy.
		Some guys have caught her.
		And the last question, I'll make it real quick.
		There's been people who said they can speak the language from Bigfoot.
		They study this.
		And one guy actually says he's been living with Bigfoot and they bury their dead.
		That's why we never find bodies.
		So those are my questions.
		I'll take the answers off the aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, let's deal with them one at a time here.
		Anything about, Mike, about Germany?
unidentified		Any Bigfoot reportings in Germany?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		No, nothing worth talking about that I've heard of, but that's not my area of concentration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Daisy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything named Daisy that you know about?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Daisy, that doesn't ring a bell.
		There must be some other name that he's not getting because I can't think of anything with the name Daisy.
		What was the context again of the question about Daisy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, something about living with Daisy.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, yeah, he talked about people claiming to live with them or spend time with them, talk to them, and all this stuff.
		And yes, there are people who have made those claims.
		And those claims are largely ignored by most.
		Even people in the Bigfoot community who are convinced Bigfoot is real, they don't want to go so far as to suggest that it might be able to think and talk and all of these other things.
		And they think that that stuff is being made up by people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		Deckers, Colorado, you're on with Mike.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		So for Michael, my question has to do with some of the alternatives to the Bigfoots being biological entities.
		Like earlier, he was talking about aliens in costume.
		So I would just be interested in hearing about some of the best alternatives he's heard to Bigfoot being a biological entity, like an ancestral spirit or something like that.
		My answer off it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here it comes.
		A lot of people think perhaps even dimensional, right, Mike?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's a common school of thought.
		And of course, this comes from the fact that people have seen, or believe they've seen, Bigfoots in association with UFOs in various contexts.
		So that, of course, they believe that the star people are involved.
		And there are people who claim that they have spoken with both star people and Bigfoot people.
		And let's see.
		So everything you have in the UFO phenomenon, the abductee, the contactee, all those different sort of side categories, they all exist within the Bigfoot phenomenon as well.
		And so, you know, people make up stories, things do happen that people try to report, and it can certainly be a miasma at times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a million messages.
		Through the wormhole, Zaki says, why does everybody want to prove they exist?
		They don't need to be protected, tagged, or studied.
		People know they exist.
		Know they exist.
		Just enjoy them and leave them alone.
		I have no desire to prove to the skeptics what I know.
		That person is very sure, and they don't care about proving to anybody anything.
		How about that?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fine.
		You know, this is something that I've toiled with.
		I've had sleepless nights about it over the course of the last 10 years, especially since I started going for this in a big way and came out of the closet with my research.
		And I started to think, well, these seem to be mild-mannered forest people.
		If we expose them, then what's going to happen to them?
		And then I realized here recently that, oh, too late, the cat's out of the bag.
		If I drop my Bigfoot research and stop working towards this end, that doesn't mean there isn't going to be somebody or 20 more people trying to do it.
		And I want to be sure that I'm involved in it so maybe I can have some say in all this.
		Maybe I'll get a vote at some point because of the amount of time I've spent on it and the dollars spent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of money, I bet.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		And then make sure that these things are treated properly when the time comes.
		Because it's too late to hide it.
		People know they're there, like he said.
		So kick back and enjoy it.
		That would be just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, one more wormhole message.
		Troy says, I was curious what the average lifespan of a Bigfoot might be.
		I would assume it is shorter than our own.
		I'm not sure why he would assume that, but maybe.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, he'd probably assume because of Western medicine and the various medicines that we have at our disposal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That we can make our lifelong.
		Like, I would be dead now if it wasn't for Western medicine.
		If a man hadn't put a thing up my artery and put a stint in my heart, I'd be a dead man.
		So I have a place for that.
		Yeah, I think that's what he's referring to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any indication of lifespan of a Bigfoot?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Some people claim there's a woman in Tennessee who claims she spent the better part of 50 years watching a Bigfoot grow up.
		He was kind of a next-door neighbor.
		He lived there for that time.
		She used to teach him words, English words.
		He used to teach her Bigfoot words.
		And it's a pretty elaborate claim.
		She backs it up with recordings, a dictionary of words, and a host McGiggy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I would sure love to interview somebody with a claim like that.
		I really would.
		By the way, folks, any Bigfoot real stuff, contact me at artbell at artbell.com.
		That's artbell at artbell.com.
		And of course, if you know who is out there, contact me as well.
		You know who I'm referring to.
		Skinny Bob.
		That's a name for you.
		Skinny Bob, you're on the air.
unidentified		Roswells, I was curious if there were any protocols for interaction.
		I'll take my call.
		My answer off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any protocols for interaction?
		Well, that's a good question, actually.
		Any protocols for interaction with a Bigfoot?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you mean what will you do if you bump into one in the woods?
unidentified		Yeah.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you step back and show it that you don't have any weapons.
		You would probably want to avert your eyes rather than look at right in the eyes because most animals are intimidated by that.
		So you'd want to be careful with that.
		I think that if you showed it that you respect that it's the boss immediately, that then you might have a chance to have some kind of contact.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These phone lines are just burning up.
		I'm never going to get to everybody.
		It looks like Gerald's.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		How about go with Duke?
		Duke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Duke it is.
		And, you know, all these things show up on the phone.
		I have no idea.
		Anyway, go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, Duke from Dayton.
		I'd like to ask Mike a question.
		Mike, you talked earlier about you had talked to a special effects expert or a Hollywood type guy about the, I think it was the Patterson film.
		Okay, that's fine.
		But I remember 20 plus years ago, there was an alien autopsy video, and there were dozens of these Hollywood types that came out and said there's no way this could be faked.
		They talked to the guys that did the Star Wars and all these other things, and they all said it couldn't be done.
		Similarly, they talked to a lot of these photo experts who said there is no way you could fake these films.
		And one of those guys was on with Art.
		So how do you compare the two?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Kohler, I think we're way past the time when you can even talk about that.
		I mean, they can do anything they want with CGI now.
		It's just impossible.
		It's too good.
unidentified		No, no, no, Art, no, no.
		But remember, that film was made 40 years ago.
		I'm talking about based on the events that occurred when the Patterson film.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So can the Patterson film be nailed down as absolutely authentic is the question because of its age?
unidentified		No, no, no, Art.
		I wouldn't put it that way.
		Let me try again.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		If Mike is saying he talked to a Hollywood special effects guy who told him there was no way in 1960, whatever, that that capability existed to make that suit or whatever he thought it was, how does he compare that to 30 years later in 1990 when the technology was much further along, when you had people saying, not only can you not make that suit or that special effect, you can't even fake the film.
unidentified		And you and I both know that at least the alien stuff, the alien autopsy stuff, has all been shown to be all fake.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the first place, you're talking about alien autopsy movies, and I'm talking about the Patterson Gimlin film.
		So I really can't speak to the alien thing.
		I never believed that.
		You know, that's beside the patterns.
unidentified		But, Mike, what I'm saying is a Patterson film.
unidentified		No, Mike, but what I'm saying is that you're using an expert.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Just because some men said that this is that and that's that, that doesn't prove anything.
unidentified		You're right.
		Exactly.
		You just proved my point.
		That's what I'm telling you.
		You've got a guy who you say is an expert who came out and you're quoting him and citing him as the expert who says this could not have been done.
		And I'm telling you that 20 years later, 30 years later, the exact same thing happened and they were proven wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but hold on, Caller.
		I think all he's done is say that Patterson film is the best evidence.
		That's all he said.
unidentified		No, no, no.
unidentified		What he said earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You keep saying no, no, no.
unidentified		He had interviewed or talked to a world-class sex guy.
		Yes.
		And I'm just saying that if that happened with the alien autopsy thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you keep confusing them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call her, call her, call her, call her.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You're misrepresenting what I said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's stick with the Patterson film.
		Forget the alien autopsy for a minute.
		Just stick with Patterson.
unidentified		I'm sticking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you are?
		Good.
		All right.
		The Patterson film.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		It is being called by Mike the special effects guy I talked to.
		I said a man named Bill Munns spent years using his skill set with a grant to do so to analyze the film with no preconception one way or the other as to the outcome of his examination.
		And he found that it was not a costume.
		And he wrote that down in a book and published it for peer review.
		It's called the scientific method.
		And he was a man that was perfectly suited and with the skill set to do such an operation.
		So if you want to have an argument about the Patterson film, if you want to have an argument about the Patterson film, to do that scientifically, you have to put that in writing and prove he's wrong.
unidentified		No, no, no.
unidentified		Listen, Mike, Mike.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about what somebody said in a minute or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		College, one more Sean.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I don't care if the alien autopsy was fake and somebody said it wasn't.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That proves nothing.
unidentified		Mike, I'm on your side.
		I have no dog in this fight.
		What I'm asking you is, the man that you quoted as writing this report, obviously he had experience in the area of special effects and costuming.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		True?
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		And then based on his review of a film, he came back and said there's no way that that could have been faked.
		And I'm telling you, the exact same thing happened 30 years later.
		True or false?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you've got so many dogs in this.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		It happened 30 years later with what?
		The autopsy film?
		That has nothing to do with this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When he made that circle.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		I've got to put a map here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		The Narson film was in 1967.
		If you're going to duplicate it, you have to use the methods available then, not what's available 30 years from now.
		I don't know what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go over and talk to Wayne, maybe.
		Not with that kind of audio.
		Wayne, I appreciate the try, but your audio was awful.
		We'll try instead.
		Kurt.
		Hello, Kurt.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Doing great.
unidentified		Let me turn this thing down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down, down, down.
unidentified		Down, down, down.
		Okay, there we go.
		There you are.
		Why, with all today's technology, with everybody being able to videotape everybody with their cameras and things, why are the Bigfoot photos always so blurry and far away and not showing the face and not getting anything like today on TV?
		You see everybody getting things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know what?
		We will get better things.
		I mean, now with the latest cameras, Android or, you know, the iPhone cameras, you can get good video.
		Now, that doesn't mean the person holding the camera, especially if you're trying to take a...
unidentified		Well, I just think that all the whole time that everybody's been talking about that, and that original guy admitted it was fake, and there were droves of people coming out after him.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		That original guy admitted that was fake.
unidentified		Well, his footprints with the way you talked about it, that original guy was.
		Yeah, whatever his name was.
		But anyway, I'm just saying that every, I mean, by now, even in the 90s and early 2000s, there should have been one better right up close in the face.
		You have all kind of cameras you could zoom in on, and they're all blurry, and you can't see nothing.
		I think it's all phony.
		I think it's hogwalk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you happen to see something like that, Color, you do your best to hold it steady while you're scared out of your wits and see how you do.
unidentified		Yeah, it's as fake as Jamie Summers and the Sasquatch on Blind Aquaman.
		Fake.
		There's a man underneath that suit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how do you know that?
unidentified		Oh, I just instinct gut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instinct.
unidentified		I know my Lord and wouldn't have some maniac running out in the woods.
unidentified		He would not allow that happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Lord would not let that happen.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		The Lord had something to do with it.
unidentified		They could get a clear picture with all the camera.
		You could zoom in.
		News stations have cameras.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		They coulda, woulda, coulda.
		They shoulda, woulda, coulda.
		They sure shoulda, woulda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Lord wouldn't let that happen.
unidentified		Bye.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Not the Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neither bye.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, I love this show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		The Bigfoot subject brings out this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the Lord, really?
		Danny, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Thanks for taking my, I guess, Skype call or whatever you want to call it.
		Yep.
		Okay, so I want to talk to you about, I'm calling from Oklahoma, And there's a place in Oklahoma called the Sacred Heart Mission, which was supposedly like the first Catholic mission in Indian territory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it exists.
		It's real.
		You can look it up online if you want to.
		But so I used to go there, and there is an area you can go where there's like a graveyard and all this crazy stuff from a long time ago.
		There are legends about like werewolves that came and killed people there.
		Well, I went there with some friends.
		I went there legitimately one time to do like a video piece on it, and all of my batteries would die every time I would go there.
		It was a really kind of mystical, crazy place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, that answers the last caller's question.
unidentified		What was the last caller's question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He wanted pictures, and it was all fake to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, batteries die, so what are you going to do?
unidentified		Yeah, well, there you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Real quick, because we're about out of time.
unidentified		Okay, so what happened was I went there one night, and there were several of us there, and there was something we couldn't see, but we felt like we were being washed, and there was the most blood-curdling scream any of us had ever heard.
		And so we bolted and got out of that place and never went back.
		So I guess, do you want me to end your show with what I would think may be a Bigfoot scream that I heard out there in the woods in southeast Oklahoma?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't miss it for the world, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, now, if you, I may wake up my wife doing this.
unidentified		So if you hear what sounds like a baseball bat, I'm not responsible for what happens to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go.
unidentified		Okay, here goes.
unidentified		Wow!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at the very least, she woke everybody up.
		He woke everybody up for Richard C. Hogan coming up next.
		Hey, listen, Mike, thank you so very much for being on the program.
		It has been an absolute pleasure.
		And you obviously know as much as can be known about Bigfoot today.
		So we'll have you back sometime.
		Just thanks for being here, buddy.
michael rugg ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very, very good to be here.
		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		And take care.
		What a blast.
		What an absolute blast.
		Quality of audio, quality of callers from the high desert and the great American Southwest.
unidentified		Good night, everybody.
		Midnight in the desert, and there's wisdom in the air.
		I've been looking for the answers.
		All my life I found you there.
		As the world we're living begins, are we heating up the sun?
		Have we lost our intuition?
		Are we running out of time?
		Midnight in the desert.
		And we're listening.

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