All Episodes
Previous Next
Aug. 6, 2015 - Art Bell
02:36:39
Art Bell MITD - Michael Rugg Bigfoot Discovery Museum
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Music playing...
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon,
wherever you may be in the world's plentiful time zones.
Welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell.
Well, this should be an interesting show.
I don't know how much you know about Bigfoot, but we're about to teach you a lot more.
In a moment, rules of the show.
No bad language.
And only one call per show.
That's fairly standard stuff.
Thank yous for the show.
Also pretty standard, actually.
Tellos, great sound.
Joe Talbot, right here in Pahrump.
And Tellos, amazing stuff.
Keith Rowland, my webmaster.
My producer, Heather Wade.
Belgab website.
People love RFL.
MID.
That's midnightindesert.com, Streamguys, LV.net, Peter Everhart up in Anchorage, who does the advertising.
If you're interested in advertising, that's the guy to get hold of.
And advertising on here is very productive, because we don't have much of it.
So, because we don't have much, what you do have obviously gets heard.
Alright, so, last night's show, I got one response of thousands that I really love this particular one.
I mean, some loved it, some hated it.
It really went the whole gauntlet.
This one I enjoyed, though, Art.
I enjoyed the debate last night.
I do have a suggestion for the Flat Earth Expedition to the Sun.
You know, that expedition, she says, where they Where he says, they prove irrefutably the sun is 3,000 miles above the flat earth.
He says they should go at night so no one gets hurt.
Oh, boy.
All right, from the Anomalist, I watch them daily, dot com.
The complete Patterson-Gimlin film footage.
Now, we've got some hot stuff up there tonight, reference Bigfoot, and Anomalous says be sure not to miss it because this is an absolute must-see.
As Bigfoot evidence explains, very few people have ever watched the entire film, the Patterson film, ever before.
Already some people are seeing some inconsistencies or anomalies, most notably The presence of another person at 53 seconds into the footage to the far left.
The film jumps a bit, and the figure changes position, which rules out it being a tree stump, obviously.
Patterson and Gimelin have always insisted they were alone on the trip, so if that is a third person, who is it?
That's kind of an obvious duh, I would say.
We definitely have the right man to be talking about this with tonight.
His name is Michael Rugg.
That's R-U-G-G.
He is co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum, located in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California.
The purpose of this museum is to educate the public at large about the probability of Bigfoot, And the current best guesses as to its inhabitants and its place in the natural world.
He's been collecting information and artifacts while studying known bipedal primates since the early 1950s.
We've been at this a while.
When the first photos of unknown tracks on Mount Everest appeared in Western newspapers since 2003, he's dedicated his full-time attention to the mystery primate phenomenon via the Bigfoot Discovery Museum that he runs, and I think we've got him on the line with us on the phone.
Hello there, Mike.
Hey, how you doing, Art?
Really well, Mike, and really glad to have you on the program.
Oh, well, I am honored to be on your program.
Thank you.
I listened to you years ago and always loved your work.
Thank you.
So, Bigfoot, I guess I would like to ask you, because I've never met you, I don't think we've ever talked, have we?
Nope.
Nope, haven't.
All right, Mike, how did you come to get started in Bigfoot research?
I mean, there has to be a precipitating event of some kind, like seeing this creature or something.
Well, you know, the beginning of that is really hard to nail down.
But I think it probably has to do with having a sighting as a child.
I found that throughout my childhood I had a particular fascination with apes.
Apes of all kinds.
I read every Tarzan novel cover to cover.
I used to want to go to the zoo all the time and hang out with the chimps and the gorillas and so on and so forth.
And then, not too many years ago, I was reading an excerpt in I think one of John Green's books, and a lady was describing a sighting she had up in Northern California, and it made me have this flashback memory.
And the memory that flashed into my head was that I actually saw a Bigfoot.
And the way the story goes was in probably 1950, and I was with my parents, my mom and my dad.
My dad was a fisherman and my mom was a driftwood collector.
Mike, may I ask your age?
Sixty-nine.
Sixty-nine.
Okay, I got a year on you, buddy.
All right.
Kid.
So, in 1950, you were still pretty young.
Yeah, I was between four and five years old.
Right, okay.
And so, the sighting happened because I strayed away from the camping.
My parents and I were camped on a beach.
On the Eel River up in Northern California.
Now we were there because my dad once had a sawmill up in that area.
And so he knew the best fishing holes and swimming holes.
And even though our family had moved to the East Bay, down in the Bay Area, we would still go up to the Eel River to fish and hunt driftwood.
So it was one of those trips and they were making breakfast on the camp stove and I went wandering off by myself.
I should have announced to them, of course, that I was leaving, but I didn't.
I was following a trail that kind of hugged the river edge, but the road was blocked by brush and so forth.
There was brush on both sides of the path.
I pushed myself my way through the brush, stepped out into an open sandbar, and then I just kind of was scanning the horizon, looking around to see what I could see.
As I turned back towards the forest, I realized that Somebody else had stepped off the path probably ten yards ahead of me and was standing there looking at me.
This fellow was extremely tall.
I remember thinking if you stacked my mom and dad up, they would not measure up to this man.
He was covered in long reddish brown hair.
I had a very good look at him.
It was about 5 or 6 in the morning.
The sun was up.
There was no brush between us.
There he was.
And as I was making eye contact for a couple of seconds, I hear my mother screaming, Mikey, where are you?
So being a good son, I dropped everything and I ran back to the campsite, notified my mom that I was all right, and then said, why don't you guys come and see the big hairy man?
Does your mom recall this?
I asked her.
She actually came to live with me about the same time that I started the Bigfoot Museum.
She was 96 at that point and was in need of help, so I took care of her until she died at 102.
Not bad.
When she first moved in, she was still pretty lucid, and so I asked her, you know, when was the last time we went up to Humboldt and went fishing and so forth?
And she said, Oh, well, that would have been prior to 1952.
Now, when I had my flashback, I was kind of reticent to admit it to anybody.
I kept it to myself because I had my own doubts.
And I have found now interviewing hundreds and hundreds of BIPPA witnesses, it's quite common for people to doubt themselves because, you know, the nature of this phenomena.
I didn't really mention it, and so I asked my mother, do you recall me telling you of seeing a hairy man on the beach up there?
And she said, no, I don't remember that.
But what she did was she established that the timing would have been around 1950 or 1951, and so it makes sense that I would have forgotten such a thing, because my original thought was, oh, I must have been ten years old after my father's heart attack when I saw that thing.
And that didn't make sense.
How could I have forgotten such a thing?
When I was ten years old, that would be 1956, by then people were talking about the Abominable Snowman, so it wouldn't have been something that I had no reference for.
But when I saw this thing, I didn't have a name for it, I didn't have any way of knowing what it was, because it wasn't something within my sphere.
And it wasn't until a couple of years later when the announcement of the Abominable Snowman footprints went around the world and started the whole mystery primate thing.
So, you've been studying Bigfoot then, almost, I guess, all your adult life?
Well, I've been studying it all my adult life, for sure, and most of my childhood as well.
Because in 1952 is when the picture was taken by Eric Shipton on Mount Everest to the footprints.
Right.
And those hit the news in late 1951, early 1952.
Life Magazine, of course, did a big article about it.
It was all the news.
The Abominable Snowman.
And I didn't, when I heard about that, I didn't make a connection with my memory.
Oh, because I forgot to mention, when I asked my parents to come and see the Bigfoot that I had observed, they went with me and when we got there, of course it wasn't there, and so they proceeded to tell me, don't worry, don't be afraid, forget about it, it was probably just a tramp.
And I said, what's a tramp?
And they said, well, a homeless person.
They probably don't have great hygiene.
They don't shave every day.
You know, they're out in the woods.
Yeah, you probably saw a homeless person, a tramp.
So I learned that a tramp is a 10-foot tall iron man.
All right.
Can you establish credentials, other than your own experience, for your study of Bigfoot?
You know, you hear the term all the time, self-proclaimed expert.
You do.
You do hear that thrown around a lot, especially by skeptics.
My question is, how does one become an expert in anything?
They do so by studying it, and they study it in lots of different ways.
It started with me by getting a scrapbook and collecting every article on the Obama snowman I could find.
Well, there's a Bigfoot Northwest University, you could have credentialed there, right?
That would have been good, if I had known about that, yeah.
And then I started, of course, purchasing any Bigfoot toy or article that came out.
And then, you know, in 1961, there was a book written by Ivan Sanderson called The Bumble Snowman Legend Come to Life.
And that was right at the time that I was starting high school.
So during my scholarly years in both high school and college, I attempted to make this a major study.
Every chance I got to bring it up and to make it a part of the curriculum that I was undergoing, I would do so.
But I got a lot of flack back from the professors.
Oh, I bet you have.
In your view, is the Abominable Snowman and Bigfoot the same thing?
I don't believe so.
You don't think so?
All right.
Hold that thought.
Hold that thought.
We have to take a break, and I better take it, too.
Not the same thing.
Why couldn't it be the same thing?
Same fur, same height, same look.
One's cold, one's not.
Seems to me it could be the same thing.
When we get back, we'll ask about that.
I'm Mark Bell and this is Midnight in Death.
Listen to the wind blow, watch the sun rise.
Run in the shadows, damn your love, damn your lies.
And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
I can't do what you say, and you will never break me down.
And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again.
Thanks for watching!
Hurts when there's nothing But a slow-flowing dream That your fear seems to hide Deep inside your mind
All alone I have cried Silent tears full of pride
In a world made of steel, made of stone Take a watch on the Wild Side of Midnight
From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
Please call the show at 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952.
Call Art.
My guest is Mike Rugg, co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Museum, actually, in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and that's probably where Bigfoot would be.
The question was, the Abominable Snowman and Bigfoot, they do seem, you know, on the face of them, sorry about that, like the same creatures.
One in a cold place, one, I don't know, maybe in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
Well, they certainly are both mystery primates, animals that are seen by indigenous peoples and described and denied by science.
So they have that in common.
Also, the descriptions are similar, and one of the misconceptions, of course, about the Bumble Snowman is that they're white.
They're always depicted looking like a white ape, and most of the individuals have seen them and described them, the great majority of them have described them as black or brown or reddish, you know, similar colors to the Bigfoot and to other apes.
I mean, if a Bigfoot was snowed on and in the ice, he'd probably be fairly white.
Yeah, and then of course there are some individuals that are born white, you know, have pink eyes and so forth.
I suppose I'd be one of those.
But I think that what the Yeti or the Boundless Snowman is, is an ape that lives in high altitude mountains below the snow line.
Most apes and other primates do not live in the snow.
There's only one monkey I know that does.
The rest pretty much stay out of the snow.
I think it's an ape that has developed the ability to cross mountain passes through the snow by walking upright.
I picture a Yeti putting his hands up as soon as he gets in the snow, walking upright until he's to the next valley on the other side of the ridge, and then as soon as he enters the forest again he gets back down on all fours.
And the reason for that is because of the footprints.
The archetypal footprint of the Abomble Snowman has a big toe that sticks off to the side of the foot, accompanied by another semi-large toe, and then three normal-looking toes, kind of three side-by-side.
Whereas Sasquatch tracks look more like giant, flat-footed human tracks.
All right, how about this, you said that at times he's on two feet and then back on all fours, yes?
That's what I believe, yes.
Okay, so a lot of people believe that man slowly came up in our evolution from, frankly, at one point, all fours, and then we stood up straight and walked.
Does that make Bigfoot or the Abominable Snowman, does that make them, what's the right word?
Some sort of ancestral relationship to us.
Maybe one that, I don't know, stopped or slowed down while we kept going.
I don't know.
Well, there's a whole bunch of different possibilities.
Think about this Bigfoot thing and the Yeti thing.
It is indeed a global phenomenon.
People have been reporting these things from all over the world, ever since the beginning of oral history.
It's something that's always been there.
And I think it's because in the history of the evolution of humans, we have had ancestors that coexisted alongside us.
In other words, when we evolve from one animal into a new one through a mutation, the original progenitor animal doesn't just suddenly disappear.
They continue to exist, and now there's a new one coexisting.
Now, if those two, as they evolve and develop, if the new one somehow goes into competition with the original progenitor species, then they may supplant them.
Yes.
Through what's called the survival of the fittest.
Yes.
And while we're here, is Bigfoot an endangered species?
Well, I don't believe so.
But I think that with the current condition and with as many people now Involved in Bigfoot hunting, shall we call it, I think that they may become endangered.
As more people are willing to believe that they exist, there, I think, are going to be more people who want to go out and shoot one.
There'll be a dentist somewhere.
I'm sure.
So, in fact, I'm sure there are people like that.
And, you know, we talked in recent days About people putting on Bigfoot costumes, or we had some other creatures that we depicted on the website, those kind of costumes, and frankly, putting on a costume like that and walking around, oh, say in your Santa Cruz Mountains there, I know those mountains, it seems to me that would be really, really dangerous.
Yes, I would say so.
You know, nine out of ten people, normal people, wouldn't even cross their mind to take a shot at one of those, but there are people who that's exactly what they want to do.
They want to shoot first and ask questions later.
And there are people who claim to have done so.
Oh, I know.
I interviewed one of them.
You remember that interview?
I remember Buggs.
Buggs, yes.
He shot too.
I had the map.
It got lost in a move.
And forever lost, I'm sorry to say.
Buggs, of course, is welcome to get hold of me and treasure a memory on all of this.
That never was resolved?
Well, he was afraid, he was afraid, Mike, that he murdered a couple of people.
Yeah, that's the common reason why people don't report their Bigfoot kills.
They usually do it thinking it's a bear.
Well, yeah, but that, if you actually killed a Bigfoot, you would probably, if you were like the dentist, You'd be screaming to the media.
You'd be saying, look what I did.
You'd be standing over it like a trophy.
And then allowing the scientists in, you'd make the most of your 15 minutes or more of fame.
There's no doubt about it.
So I'm thinking nobody has done it yet, except maybe the fellow I interviewed, Bugs.
Bugs, if you're out there, get a hold of me, buddy.
Well, there's a man out there right now who claims he killed two of them just recently.
Oh, and did not report it because?
Because he was afraid of prosecution, because it looked too much like a human.
Well, there you are.
So, once they walk up to their kills... Yeah.
I heard another story from a local man who had a... His father had a friend who was a mountain man.
His name was Briner, Elmer Briner.
And he hunted grizzly bear for a living.
And he, around 1900, Was at the mouth of the Pitt River, where it met the Sacramento.
That's before Lake Shasta was put there.
Right.
And he took aim and shot a grizzly bear in the back of the head.
And as he watched it fall down and get a good kill, he started working his way down the canyon wall to harvest this bear.
He had an Indian companion with him named Cannonball, who was on the other side of the river.
He went across in a little cable contraption and got to the side and the two of them
got to this kill about the same time and the man who told me this story was a former navy seal
he lives here locally in the valley
and he said that he couldn't help but kind of choke up and get a little tear
in his eye when he was telling me this because
Elmer Briner cried like a baby because he said that when they rolled that
grizzly over it had a human face and human hands and feet
and he realized he'd killed a wild man and not a grizzly and he did not feel good about that.
All right.
That begs an obvious question then.
Are there other wild men out there that might run into the same problem for the same reason?
I mean, feral, virtually feral humans, I guess.
Well, I think there are feral humans out there.
I think that's part of the problem.
You see, the phenomena, as I mentioned earlier, being a global thing that's been going on for years, forever so to speak, it's not going to be defined by any one particular species of animal, I don't think.
What we're dealing with here are sighting reports.
The Bigfoot phenomena is largely anecdotal.
We have the Patterson film, we have some footprints and things like that.
But mostly what we have are eyewitness testimony.
And that you can take and use as a database, and that tells us a lot of stuff about these animals.
All right.
May I ask you a really personal question?
If you were somewhere outside your museum, had a gun in your hand, a good high-powered rifle, and Bigfoot was standing, oh, I don't know, 50 yards away from you, would you raise your rifle and fire?
Or would you, I don't know, cradle your rifle and make little cooing sounds or something, trying to get Bigfoot to come your way?
Now, don't answer that yet.
That's why we have breaks.
People will hang around to find out what the answer is.
Even I have no idea what he's going to say.
This is a classic question.
Would you shoot?
Or would you hold your fire?
Midnight in A feisty debate tonight.
Donald Trump was the only one of ten Republican presidential candidates debating tonight in Cleveland who won't pledge to support the eventual GOP nominee.
Trump says he intends to win.
Trump also said he had no time for political correctness when asked if he was concerned that some of his remarks in the past might be offensive to women.
He also joked that the remarks were directed at actor Rosie O'Donnell.
Unlike the feisty primetime debate between the top polling tier of the GOP candidates at a debate in Cleveland, the seven other candidates considered at the bottom of the polls faced off before a largely empty arena.
The forum was less hostile.
Most of the criticism was directed at the Democrats.
A man who claimed to be Tarzan has been arrested after he allegedly climbed a tree and tried to get into the monkey exhibit at a Southern California zoo.
A zookeeper called 911 Tuesday morning to report that a shirtless man plastered in mud had climbed about 20 feet into a tree at the bird exhibit at the Santa Ana Zoo.
He had left by the time the police arrived, but was taken into custody a short time later.
On a previous Dark Matter News report, we reported about a Jeep that hackers were able to take over.
Now Tesla Motors appears to be a victim of such attacks as well.
On Thursday, it has sent a software patch to address security flaws in the Tesla Model S sedan that could allow hackers to take control of the vehicle.
Cybersecurity researchers said they had taken control of a Model S and turned it off at a low speed, one of six significant flaws they found that could allow hackers to take control of the vehicle.
Art Bell had a special guest last night who believes that the Earth is flat.
And our roving reporter John G. is out in the field with a special report for Dark Matter News.
Hello, this is John G. with Dark Matter News.
I am here on assignment waiting on aerospace engineer Pulitzer Prize winner.
He is an anonymous flatlander.
We are trying to prove that the Earth is flat.
And we're waiting here today on assignment to talk to a airline pilot that goes by the handle Skip Trace.
He is a confirmed flat planet believer.
He is anti-earthball and he has set his sights on setting sail against this giant flat landscape he calls Flirth.
Equipping Skip's plane with new flat lens cameras that were developed specially by Mr. Anonymous Bob, the leader of the anti-earth ballers.
Anonymous Bob stated that we are subject to one of the world's greatest and most advanced conspiracy theories ever.
That we've all been duped into believing that the earth, not round, but it is flat indeed.
We'd like to issue a challenge to Mr. Anonymous Bob.
We'd like for you to prove that the earth is flat.
Anonymous Bob, the gentleman that says that the earth is flat, has been tracked down and was found to be working for U.S.
Globe.
He felt that it was the best place to start, making a difference from the inside.
Anonymous John, about earth ballers, he said it doesn't take anything to believe that the earth is round.
It might take just a little bit more than facts, maybe even some faith, to believe that it's flat.
Anonymous Bob says that we have been duped to believe that we are living on a planet that is not round.
That's not what he said, but that's what he meant.
He was about as confusing as the last 10 seconds of this first cast here.
But I do know one thing.
I'm hungry.
And when I get hungry, I reach out for some flatbread.
It seems that facts are not important, or physics, or even the basics of science, to prove that the Earth is not round, but indeed flat, according to anonymous John, a guest last night on Art Bell.
But I'd like to ask him this one question.
We don't need science.
We don't need math.
Just give us some hard proof.
Find someone who will fly a plane, who will gas that plane and fly it all the way across this flat earth with a flat camera.
Something that will take flat panoramic pictures.
Just give us some proof.
That's all we ask.
Thanks John G for that report.
Such that it was.
I'm Leo Ashcraft and this is Dark Matter News.
We will, we will rock you.
We will, we will rock you.
Shout out to Leo Ashcraft for that newscast.
Ouch.
Absolutely incredible!
incredible right from the high deserts and the great american southwest this is
midnight in the desert exclusively on the dark matter digital network to call
the show dial 1-952-CALL-ART that's 1-952-225-5278 yeah I'm gonna set this up even better because if you think
about Mike, Mike Rugg the curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum of the
mountains there in Santa Cruz and you think about his position then this
question gets a lot lot lot harder
If you think about Mike Rugg, again, who owns a museum, and the question I'm posing, and Mike, you can picture him now, he just maybe went out for a smoke, or maybe he's quit, I don't know, but he's out Outside the museum when it's closed and late.
He's got a .30-06 with him.
At least.
And oh my god, it couldn't be fifty yards away.
Gotta be like ten feet tall.
Covered in brown fur.
Meanest looking thing you ever saw.
Now he can either raise that .06, that .06, or he can cradle it and try to Talk to Bigfoot, communicate with it, like a civilized person.
But then on the other hand, you gotta think, well, Mike owns the biggest museum of its sort probably in the world, and if he had a stuffed Bigfoot in the museum, they'd be coming from miles around.
Actually, there'd be Japanese tourists traipsing through your museum at whatever the charge is to traipse currently.
So, there you've got them in your sights, Mike.
What would you do?
Truth be told.
Well, I would have to go along with what Gimlin did.
And Gimlin held the rifle and watched as Patterson did the filming.
Now, he told me if that thing had gone after Roger, I could have taken an eye out with one shot.
I was that good.
Uh, and that's what I would have done, but it didn't go after Roger, so we agreed not to shoot unless we were in danger.
And that's the way I would handle it.
And I would, uh, when we go out and hunt Bigfoot, you know, go out in the woods and try and, uh... And you do that, right?
We do, yes.
I do with several, uh, volunteer helpers.
And, uh, we did that for a number of years, uh, three or four nights a week.
And we had experiences.
I found out that you can actually, uh, Put yourself in a position to have a Bigfoot experience.
It's not as difficult as I had imagined.
Well, wait a minute now.
If you're going to say that, then I'm going to begin to ask you about its paranormal characteristics.
Yeah, well, I have certainly talked to a number of individuals who have described characteristics that would be considered paranormal.
That certainly is one type of Bigfoot.
There's another type of Bigfoot.
That's the mythical Bigfoot.
That's the one that has no parents and is thousands of years old.
There's only one of.
People think there's only one Bigfoot.
The mythical Bigfoot.
The mythical Bigfoot also includes, of course, hoaxes.
But there's the biological Bigfoot as well.
Now the big question is, is the biological Bigfoot completely 100% biological, or does it sometimes fade over into the paranormal realm?
Some witnesses would tell you so, and some of my peers Would immediately shun those witnesses, would tell them to be quiet and go away, that they don't want to hear about it.
I don't do that.
We try to take in every bit of data that comes our way because anecdotes are anecdotes.
Sure.
And if you start picking and choosing which ones you want to listen to and which ones you don't, then I don't think you're doing science.
Right.
And we're trying to do the right thing and do it the right way and come up with some truths.
So paranormal is considered as well as everything else.
But I'll have to say that right now I'm concentrating on the biological Bigfoot and I will continue to do so until I feel that there's something haywire.
Before we get too far into the show, you've got some photographs for us that you put up on or is linked to Artbell.com.
So if they go to Artbell.com right now, you can see what I guess Mike refers to as or thinks of as a Bigfoot tooth.
Is that correct?
Well, yeah, we like to think that this could very well be a Bigfoot tooth.
I'm going there now.
If it's not a Bigfoot tooth, then it's a giant human tooth.
Well, oh, God, I feel so sorry for that human if that's what it is.
Yeah, well, I showed it to seven dentists and all seven of them said, this looks like a human upper molar, but it's way too big.
So what I have there is a picture of a human molar next to a human mandible.
Now, that mandible is a cast made from an actual human skull that I got from a museum supply house.
The molar tooth, however, and then next to it is the tooth that was discovered in the mountains here, just three miles from the museum.
And next to it, I have the Macanthropus jaw, which is a reconstruction done by Grover Krantz of Macanthropus.
Macanthropus, the big man, was discovered on the island of Java.
It's known from just a few bones.
Two of them, you can see there, the dark teeth are the actual fossil.
All right, let me only stop long enough, please, so everybody can catch up with this.
When you go to rfl.com, at the very top, when you get on the page, folks, you'll see a picture of Mike, who kind of looks like... Do you play Santa, you know, at Christmas?
I was offered a job as a professional Santa.
There you have it.
He kind of looks like Santa.
Click on that and then you'll get to the pictures I'm talking about.
It's all at Artbell.com.
Okay, so first picture up, Bigfoot tooth images.
Now, they've got a part of a tooth there next to a penny.
Yeah.
That is the putative Bigfoot tooth.
That can't be a human tooth.
There's no way.
No way.
Right.
It's way too big.
But it certainly could be a Bigfoot tooth because it happens to be in an area where we have contemporary sighting reports.
You know, Mike, when I look at that, I've got to ask a question.
When I look at that, it's like I almost see what almost looks like, I don't know, guts of a tooth.
I mean, more than just enamel.
It almost looks like there's a biological material in there.
Well, yeah, that's because the crown is worn off that tooth.
You're seeing what is a huge cavity.
Exactly.
But my point here is that something with that much biological whatever that that gook is would have some sort of DNA in it, wouldn't it?
Well, yeah, that would be expected.
Have you had that DNA looked at?
Well, it's a very long story, but I'll just tell you that I have tried.
Uh, part of my tooth is now, and it's still, in a lab in Texas with Melba Ketchum.
Okay.
Part of my tooth is in Oxford, England with Brian Sykes.
Yeah, they like to cut these samples up like crazy.
Yeah, and the last third of the tooth was once in a little jar here in the museum, but last week it turned up missing.
Oh no.
I'm afraid somebody took it.
Oh no, you mean like somebody just Oh, that's horrible.
You mean somebody was coming through the museum, lifted what was left of your tooth?
Yes.
Thank God you've got the photograph.
We have the photographs, and there are parts of the tooth, like I said, still in existence, in two different DNA labs, both of which supposedly were going to test them.
When Brian Sykes did his study, he opted to use only hairs, even though they asked Okay, let's go up now to the mandibles up above.
Those are awfully big.
I mean, what do the scientists say about these?
Well, that mandible, like I said, comes from an animal that's been labeled Meganthropus by scientists.
Other scientists will say, well, that's an unnecessary name.
That's actually a Homo erectus, but it happens to be an especially large one.
Well, could they, from the size of the mandible, project the size of the creature?
Well, yes, they have done that, and I didn't put the picture up, but there is a cranium that's been reconstructed that goes with it.
The whole skull has been reconstructed by Grover Krantz, and they had a complete occipital bone, so that means they had a very good Indication of the cranium size, the cranium is nearly as big as a human cranium.
It has the beginnings of a sagittal crest, a little bit of a bump down the center of the forehead, and that bony ridge around the eyes that you see on the Patterson creature, that you'll find on the Meganthropus skull, and you'll find this gigantic twice the normal size jaw.
To me, it looks like it belongs to that guy in the 007 movie with the teeth.
Remember him?
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Or something much bigger, even.
So it's gigantic.
Absolutely gigantic.
I hope people are following along with us here.
It's at Artbell.com.
And then there are other comparisons to teeth, a little down lower.
Also, up against pennies, to give you a concept of size.
That one on the bottom.
What am I looking at?
That's all one tooth you're seeing from the different angles.
And so what you're seeing there is the fact that the crown has worn off the top.
You can see that in the side view that shows you the tooth interior.
And you can see the dental material down both sides.
Crown is worn off.
And then you look down at the roots and you see those are broken off.
And then if you look at that top view you can see that also almost a half the tooth is missing.
So that tooth, the way it is right now when you look at it compared to the
human tooth up there in that other photo with the mandibles,
it looks pretty big but if you were to restore that to its full size,
it would be then obviously twice the size of that human tooth. Yes sir.
All right, so we're talking about an obviously really large, probably very
scary creature here and you know I've got to go back to this question just one last
time.
I mean, really, Mike, if you had the chance to have a stuffed, real McCoy, full, no question about it, Bigfoot in your museum, you could really turn that down in the name of?
Well, in the name of humanity, I mean, I think that Eventually, unless these things turn out to be paranormal, we're going to eventually have a Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs.
We're going to have to set up our agencies.
There'll be some forests and things that'll be set aside for them.
And they'll have their rights to the pursuit of happiness like the rest of us.
Because if they are 99.9 human... A Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs.
More government, Mike.
More government.
Oh yes, but with people like myself running it.
Oh, you really think so?
I'll bet that's what the Apaches thought, too.
We'll be revving things!
That's my fantasy, anyway.
Yes, okay, well.
Alright, so on to a million other questions.
You say they're all around the world.
Bigfoot is in one form or another, can be seen in almost all parts of the world, yes?
Yes.
What's really interesting is the most recent find Which is on the island of Flores in Indonesia.
Wow.
The people there are the Nage people.
I've been telling scientists for quite some time about the little hairy people that live in the forest.
They're described as being, you know, three feet in height, completely grown, running around on two legs, and having no apparent signs of culture of any kind.
And they call them the Abugogo.
So this is another typical Bigfoot myth.
Because the Bigfoot around the world come in different sizes.
Not only are they described as being particularly large and robust, but there are also grass isle varieties, little ones, little foots.
And those are spotted in Africa, Central America, North America, and most particularly on islands.
So here's an island, and some scientists went there from Australia.
And of course they ignored the tales of the little wild men in the forest.
They didn't go looking for living beings.
But they did find a big cave that interested them, so they dug down in this cave, and lo and behold, here's 13 little skeletons of three-foot-tall diminutive people.
And these people have skulls that look like miniature Homo erectus people.
And some of the bones are 90,000 years old, some of the bones are only 13,000 or 12,000 years old.
Do bigfoot creatures die?
Do they die?
Do they die?
Of course they die.
If they're biological, they die.
Where are the bones?
Well, that's another interesting question.
That's one that people always bring up, and I have a pretty simple explanation for it.
The bones are in the fossil record, and they're in universities and other collections around the world, and they are considered to be members of our family tree.
They are described in various ways as Australopithecus, Homo erectus, Homo habilis, Homo ergaster,
Homo adultu, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis.
In other words, if one of those wild men from our past, you know, Lucy, the little one from
Africa that was four million years old walking on two legs?
Yes, yes.
If you saw one of those in the forest today, you would probably report a Bigfoot event.
So what I'm saying is...
At my age I might just, you know, peel over.
But yes.
So in other words, there's plenty of bones in the fossil record indicating the existence
of large bipedal primates.
And other than the fact that a lot of these giant skeletons have been hidden away on purpose, we would have more examples of giant... Why?
Why would somebody hide them away on purpose?
Unless you felt you had, as a hunter, killed a human by mistake, or something that would be regarded as perhaps human.
Nobody wants to face murder charges, so yeah, sure, then you hide them.
Otherwise, if you really think you've got a Bigfoot, you start screaming and yelling and maybe even open a museum in competition with Mike.
Yeah, well, we have plenty of effigies of Bigfoot here at our museum.
We have one carved of redwood, a couple.
Yeah, but they're effigies.
We also have some hollow ones made of papier-mâché and wax, nine feet tall.
Well, impressive, but again, They give you a good idea of how Bigfoot looks and how it stands next to you.
Right.
But a real one would be good.
So that's our next plan.
It's called habituation.
Well, break that down for the rest of us.
Habituation.
You habitually create a scenario in which you're inviting a Bigfoot to come in to join you.
Okay.
You have a campsite dedicated to that, and you provide meats and sweets for the Bigfoot.
Meats and sweets.
How do you...meats and sweets, other than that, what is it you do?
I mean, there's lots of meats and sweets at most, you know, campgrounds.
People go out camping.
They generally are cooking something that must smell pretty good to a Bigfoot, you know, at a mile away, two miles away.
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, that's why they come and visit Well, we were about to get to that.
I mean, we don't see many Bigfoot.
for some of those sweets and meats.
Otherwise they stay away.
I think the Bigfoot figured out about 300 years ago here in North America that the only
way they were going to survive as a species would be by hiding.
Well we were about to get to that.
I mean we don't see many Bigfoot.
There is an occasional report, even an occasional photograph.
But otherwise we don't see them, which means they must be smart, at least smart enough
Yeah.
Or we'd see them, right?
When we opened the museum here in Santa Cruz ten years ago, I didn't think of this as a Bigfoot area.
I knew that the Bigfoot would have been here in the past because it's a beautiful place to be.
And I was quite sure there had been Bigfoot here, and I'd heard a couple of random stories.
But I figured that they would be long gone from Santa Cruz, because once the university came in, and the college was built, and so on, and we had a lot more people coming and staying, and Silicon Valley put together, we became a bedroom community for Silicon Valley.
There was tourists, there was lumberjacks, and all this stuff.
Bigfoot would have exited this place a long time ago.
And then, as soon as the word hit the street that the Bigfoot Museum was here, The locals started coming in and telling me they're seeing them in their backyards right now.
Isn't that interesting?
You think just the power of suggestion?
Or is it possible that the thing you talked about earlier, the sort of invitation, is what produces the experience?
Well, you know, there's a lot of ways of looking at this.
Yes, some would say that, oh, it's mass hysteria caused by the existence of your museum.
But I would also say, well, the museum I totally get it, Mike.
recognized as a safe harbor for people who have had experiences like this who
normally get ridiculed by everyone they try to share that with. And almost to the
person, people who come in this museum and tell me their Bigfoot event and
their encounter, they preface it by saying, you know, I don't talk about this
much because when I do I get ridiculed. I totally get it, Mike. Of course they do. Of
course they get ridiculed and that keeps people, Mike, from not just not talking
about Bigfoot but not talking about all kinds of paranormal experiences that
They're afraid they're going to, I mean, whether it's a business problem, you know, or they're worried about people coming to gently put on a little restraining white thing and take them away.
One way or the other, they don't talk about it.
All right, Mike, hold tight.
We'll be right back.
Mike Rugg is my guest, co-founder of Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Museum in the Santa Cruz Mountains, where I hear tell that Bigfoot's been seen.
From the high desert and the great American southwest, this is Midnight in the Desert.
Rocking the night away.
Leave me this way.
I can survive.
And I'm back.
I'm back.
Wanna take a ride?
He is co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Discovery Museum up in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
It is a pleasure to have you on, Mike.
225-5278. Mike Rugg is my guest. He is co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project, curator of the Bigfoot Discovery
Museum up in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
It is a pleasure to have you on, Mike. And my next question, I guess, is going to be, is there any record, known record,
of Bigfoot having harmed a human being?
Thank you.
Well, I have found a couple of reliable stories, but in most cases, I feel that the harm was done in self-defense.
I don't know of any stories... Tell me what you know.
Well, there was a mining company in Chetco, Oregon.
They had a problem with bears coming into camp.
This was in 1890.
Because of that, they would have a sentry stay up all night to wake everyone up should a bear come into camp.
One night, a Bigfoot came into camp and they sounded the alarm.
Everybody woke up.
Two of the miners grabbed lanterns and rifles and ran into the woods after the Bigfoot.
A short time later, there was gunfire.
And they figured they must have got it, but they waited and the men did not return.
The men?
So how many men were out?
Two men at least with rifles and lanterns went out and they didn't return so they sent a posse out, several people to look for them and they were found and they had been dismembered and their rifles were kind of bent in a circle.
Their rifles in a circle?
They were bent and the bodies were pulled apart.
Pulled apart.
But I believe that was self-defense.
So, in other words, one of them or both of them took a shot at a Bigfoot.
A Bigfoot took umbrage and, well, as you point out, ripped them apart, bent their rifles into U-shapes.
Yeah.
Really?
That's a horrible story.
But that's not a typical Bigfoot.
Okay, I understand.
He's a gentle, beautiful creature.
This will serve a dual purpose, Mike.
This is reported by a person close to me that many of you in the audience know to be the sound of a Bigfoot.
It will also help you to understand whether you think Bigfoot is gentle or not.
This comes to me via Linda Moulton Howe, and it also serves to check and see that all of you are still awake out there.
This is the actual recorded sound of a real Bigfoot.
Bigfoot.
I think I've seen him before.
Alright, so...
So if you were asleep, welcome back.
Glad to have you back.
What woke you up was the sound of a Bigfoot.
And if in real life that woke you up, and you're still alive, then fine.
So, Mike, have you heard that sound before?
Yes, I have.
We had occasion to record something very similar to that.
Where after a while the sound didn't even seem organic.
Because what we recorded was a Bigfoot that was howling in siren-like fashion.
Long drawn-out siren.
There you've got it.
And coyotes and dogs from all around joined it and started screaming along with it.
Really?
Pretty soon you had the various vocal harmonics clashing and the echoing and the whole thing took on a metallic sound just as the one you just played did.
It has a kind of metallic echo to it.
There was a terrified lady that held a recorder in her hand recording this.
I mean, there's quite a story to go along with it.
It's quite a credible report.
We've had this sound for years.
It's pretty horrible, in my opinion.
Well, it certainly is loud and disruptive.
But I guess, you know, an animal like, well, I don't know, any big animal, part of Staying alive is scaring everything else around the heck away.
Well, yeah.
The Bigfoot does what other apes do and what people would do.
If you decided that you had a disagreement with the person who moved in next door, you would have options as to how to deal with that.
One way would be you could start hassling that person, throw rocks at him.
Have your dog poop in his yard or you know do all these negative things or you can just kind of be quiet and held back and try not to disrupt and try to introduce yourself and be friendly.
I'm more of a fan of thousand watt amplifiers with great big speakers, Mike, and then the
recording you just heard, you know, do it like 1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30 a.m.?
Yeah, I had a woman come in and she said she was awakened by a scream very much like that.
And the cat on the foot of her bed went up to the ceiling and then under the bed.
Oh, yes.
And she said what's particularly unusual was that she has a barky dog, one of those nuisance type dogs.
Yes.
And it's kept outside.
The dog was decidedly quiet.
And I have heard this so many times.
I can guarantee that dogs know when the Bigfoot's around, when they can smell it.
They are quiet.
99% of dogs.
I was just going to say, the Patterson film is pretty much regarded as bigfoot gold, as the best.
Would you say that's true?
100%.
Did you hear me read the story at the beginning of the program about the observation of a third person in the Patterson film?
You know, I've heard stories like this over the years.
There have been stories put up where they show a bunch of men in the mountains prior to Patterson being there, and they claim that there was a murder, a mass murder, and all these people buried the Sasquatches.
There have been all kinds of wild and crazy stories told about that thing, but I can tell you this.
If you get a book written by Bill Munns, which was just put out at the end of last year, It's the result of many years of work that he's done on the Patterson film.
And Bill Muntz has 30 years experience in Hollywood as an artist, a makeup artist and what have you.
And he has designed and built costumes for movies, monsters.
The swamp thing being one of his more notables.
And he's the man who made the giant depiction of Gigantopithecus that you see online everywhere.
Well, he got a little bit of money and a grant to go ahead and take his skill set and apply it to the Patterson film.
He had no iron in the fire.
He didn't care one way or another if the Patterson film was real or not, and whether Bigfoot was real or not, but he knew he had the right credentials to figure that out.
So, he got more than one copy of the Patterson film, a total of three copies, scanned them into high definition video, put them in his computer, and started analyzing the film.
And he has now put this book out, which has many, many pages of drawings, diagrams, photographs of body parts from the Patterson film, and why it's not a costume.
And he has proven in that book, in my opinion, unequivocally, that the Patterson film is not a costume.
Now, he doesn't say it's a Bigfoot.
That's not the point.
All he's saying is, that is not a costume.
That is a being.
that you're seeing that looks just like what you see.
And he has proven that in writing with many diagrams, many models, many proofs, mathematical
equations and all the stuff they call science.
And so that is officially a statement that's been put out for peer review now.
So if someone wants to say the Patterson film is fake, then they have to do it in writing
and they have to respond to his work and prove that he's wrong.
That's called the scientific method.
It is, it is.
You don't give this story much credibility about a third person that was seen moving.
No, no, because I've heard so many stories like that, and it turns out to be, you know, it really has nothing to do with it.
What people do is they reach for things that they can bring up about the film that will cause you to have doubts about the credibility of the two witnesses, Patterson and Gimlin.
Well, the thing is that the two witnesses, Patterson and Gimlin, their story has never changed.
And even though they have contradicted each other a couple of ways here and there, it's only human nature, because no two people see anything the same way.
That's right.
And you have an event, and if you have two people that describe it exactly the same way, they've rehearsed it!
I expect to hear people with little differences like that.
It's a very good point.
Even the police tell you, you know, eyewitnesses are absolutely generally Absolutely, pretty much unreliable.
They report different colors of cars, they report different clothing, different everything.
That's why science ignores all the witnesses of the paranormal.
It's decided a priority ahead of time.
Most people are all liars and fools.
Thank you, that's right.
That's exactly what they do.
Okay, is Patterson the best evidence for Bigfoot?
Yes, by far hands down in my opinion, and that's because I have met Bob Gimlin and spent time with him and asked him all the toughest questions.
I mean, I was asking him things he didn't even remember.
I probably know more about the film than he does because I've studied it.
You know, Gimlin wasn't really a big footer.
Gimlin was a cowboy who met Patterson on the Rodeo scene.
Patterson, though, would come to Gimlin time and again and try to evangelize Gimlin to join him in
searching for Bigfoot.
Because Patterson was always looking for volunteers to go out in the woods with him and people
who might help him with funding.
And Gimlin was one of those people.
And Bob Gimlin told me, you know I had three or four jobs I was working all at the same
time.
I was raising cattle, I was training horses for other people, and I was tending bar to
pay for my child support and alimony.
I didn't have time to go with Roger in the woods and look for Bigfoot.
I didn't even believe in it.
But I did believe that if there was such a thing, Roger was the guy who would be able to prove it.
Right.
Can I ask you about a rumor?
Sure.
A rumor that there had been, by Patterson's wife I guess, or at least knowledge of it, a deathbed confession by somebody, that the Sasquatch in that film, Yeah, this is an urban myth that I have to work with almost every week in the museum.
I have to tell people about this because of the way the news media handle it.
A man named Ray Wallace died around the beginning of the current century.
He died and his family went into his stuff, the boxes in the basement, and they found all this Bigfoot paraphernalia.
And they knew that Ray liked to tell Bigfoot stories, and that he was considered the irascible, lovable Bigfoot guy, Ray Wallace, who always had a Bigfoot story to tell.
And everybody pretty much knew that he kind of made it up as he went along.
And he went and carved fake wooden tracks, and then he made molds from them and made plaster casts, which he sold to tourists, claiming they were genuine Bigfoot tracks.
He filmed his wife in a gorilla suit.
And uh... sold stills from the film to people saying these are actual photographs of a Bigfoot.
And I've seen a few of those pictures actually still on the internet and some people still think they're real.
And Wallace was a faker, okay?
But he was known to be a faker and only fooled a few of the researchers at the beginning.
And then they caught on and nobody was fooled anymore by Wallace.
But when his family saw his stuff they decided to uh... give the news media
call and they announced that uh... the big who was dead because
their dad had created the entire bigfoot myth single-handedly
in nineteen fifty eight in northern california ray wallace so when a bc news told that story
on the evening news i was watching and as they were telling the story about the ray wallace
and uh... film the deathbed confession
that he uh... filmed his wife in a costume They put the Patterson-Gimlin film up on the screen.
Huh.
God.
Not related at all to the Wallace story.
Right, right.
Had nothing to do with it.
And taught everyone that there was a deathbed confession.
So typical.
Ray Wallace did not on his deathbed say he made up Bigfoot.
So typical.
His family.
So typical.
The media does this kind of stuff.
Anytime it comes to the paranormal, any way they can figure out to crush it, they do it.
Oh my God, yes.
They've been battling this for years now.
That's just the way they work.
A quick word, I get these computer messages, the wormhole, it's called, Oysteria says, I have a friend who was chased by one in Tennessee, he said he came upon the tallest pile of bones, which is absolutely huge, standing there, all of a sudden, by the bones, I guess A Bigfoot came up on him and lunged at him.
He was on a quad.
Needless to say, he got out of there really, really quickly.
So he came upon a pile of bones, and there was a real Bigfoot there.
Would a Bigfoot, as a human does, mourn one who has passed?
Is that what he could have come upon?
I mean, maybe, you know, one of, a mate or something died?
I don't know.
I'm just reading this.
Well, there are people who claim to have witnessed Bigfoot burials, and who claim that the Bigfoot do indeed bury their dead, and should they have a stillborn child, they'll bury the child.
But of course, a great many people in the research community, any time a person claims to have habituated to Bigfoot and got to know it and spoke to it or spent time with it in any way, shape, or form, They immediately poo-poo that stuff.
That's considered bogus.
So your Bigfoot believers, most of them don't even want to talk about UFOs and other paranormal stuff.
Oh, I understand.
Although the paranormal part, you almost have to do that a little bit.
But here's something I want to... I mean, people come to you, obviously, with Bigfoot stories, right?
Absolutely, from all over the world.
Alright, so how do you cut through the BS?
How do you separate the wheat and chaff?
How do you know when it's A credible story you're hearing versus the other.
Yeah.
Well, of course, you can never be 100 percent sure.
But being now 70 years old, having been, you know, for 50 some years, a hobbyist with this, in other words, Bigfoot was my main interest when I wasn't busy.
Sure.
Always back to Bigfoot reading or whatever.
And then the last 10 years now, all I have been doing is Bigfoot.
So I think about this when I go to bed.
I'm still thinking about it when I get up in the morning.
I go to my computer.
I check in and see what everybody else is doing.
Then we have people come in here from 11 to 6 all day long.
They come in here and they want an education.
They want to know facts.
And they come in here wanting to share experiences.
Quite often those people come in and they won't even talk to me until everybody leaves.
Then they'll come in and say, I've been wanting to talk to you about this but I was afraid I couldn't do it with other people around.
I hear all kinds of things, including stories about little grey men with large eyes, abduction scenarios, ghost stories, and stories of other strange creatures.
I've heard it all.
And from 1980 to 1994, I read every UFO book that I could get my hands on, and I went to every conference I could go to.
I met eyewitnesses, I talked to authors, and I realized that I've got to get into this UFO thing, too, because there's an overlap with the Bigfoot thing.
Then, in 1994, I decided, you know what?
This is too dark, because the UFO thing is about night skies, night skies is about military, and there's all these shenanigans going on.
It's like the X-Files when you get into UFO stuff.
It gets more dangerous.
Speaking of the X-Files, by the way, the X-Files are coming back.
Mike, hold on.
What a great interview.
My guest is Mike Rugg, and he's a Bigfoot investigator.
We're going to get around to phone calls, so relax.
It's coming.
And perhaps so is Bigfoot.
Do you really want an encounter?
If Mike can tell you to have an encounter, would you like to give it a try?
This is Midnight in the Desert.
This is a video of me playing the game.
I'm playing this game on my phone.
What the people need is a way to make them smile.
I said, oh, I'm gonna let the music play What the people need is a way to make them smile
It ain't so hard to do it, you know how You gotta get a man's needs to get it all through
Oh, now, mama, God, you gotta have some wine Oh, now, let the music play
Oh, now, let the music play Oh, now, let the music play
All the time To reach Midnight in the Desert via Skype worldwide, if on
a computer, please be sure to use a headphone mic and call MITD-51-9.
That's MITD-51.
Well, alright, Donnie writes, Art, I stepped away for a few minutes.
Did you bring up your Bigfoot map?
The one you held?
Uh, Donnie, and everybody, listen to me.
I've been asked about this a million times.
I believe what my friend told me is the truth.
I did receive a map to the burial site of the Bigfoot, two of them.
My official story is that I lost it in a move, but I will say this.
My official story in mind If I still had the Bigfoot map, I would still tell the official story.
It is my position, always has been and always will be, that it is for bugs to say, not me.
It's too serious a matter.
It could be human beings of some sort that the man killed.
It's too serious a matter, so you have my official story.
And that remains my official story.
Do you understand, Mike, what I'm saying?
Yeah, I do.
You know, I had heard through a rumor mill that some radio DJ who was kind of in competition with you had set this up and did it as a prank to an investigator or something.
No.
That's not what I was told.
No.
Well, I'm glad to hear that.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
There was nothing like that involved in this at all.
You see how these rumors go?
Man.
Oh, yeah.
I do.
And I'm sure that some of that stuff has gone on, but this man was on more than just one show with me.
Plus, I absolutely had the map.
We had legal consultations that went on behind the scenes.
This was no prank, I guarantee you.
However, even today, Mike, if I had that map, I would still tell my official story, because I will protect him until the day he decides what he's going to do about this.
You know, that can't be on me, Mike.
It can't.
Well, you're a man of your word.
It's too serious a matter for someone else to decide.
Anyway, no prank.
That I absolutely guarantee.
So, boy, this show is rushing by.
Just not enough time to do anything.
We don't even have many commercials.
So, where do you go from here in Bigfoot research?
Well, of course, I will continue to take in the reports and document those.
We have a map on our wall that has pins in it.
So when we have a local person come in and tell us about a sighting, we'd hand them a pen and they'd put it in the map.
Right.
And you were asking earlier, how do you discern between... Oh, good story and a bad story, sure.
Yeah.
And, you know, it just really, the only thing I'd say about that is, when you've done this long enough, and we've heard enough stories, and when you've been on the planet long enough so that you learn about how people operate, and how stories are, You know, it's not real difficult, and I'll tell you what, I've had, oh, three or four different occasions where people tried to pull the wool over my eyes, where they tried to pull a hoax on me, and I think one of them was hoping that I would make a big deal out of it and then he could step forward and discredit me by proving that he had hoaxed me.
I think this is done sometimes.
I think this is what happened to Tom Biscardi.
It happens all the time.
Yeah, so you get discredited.
In all of these fields, whether it's a baby that looks like an alien, or it's a sighting, or it's a creature, or it's a... Yes, this occurs all the time to exactly do that, to crush somebody.
Yeah, I know Linda Monaghan ran into that when she was working on an HBO special, and Richard Doty told her he was going to give her a movie, and then when the time came, said, who are you?
I don't know what you're talking about.
And I know that she had some problems for a while because of that incident.
You know, I was at Stanford the same time as Linda.
She is so serious about her work, as you know.
Oh, I know, I know.
Very, very serious.
She was a few years ahead of me, but we did meet there.
All right, I have one serious question for you before we begin taking calls, and it's going to come up after the break.
And we kind of touched on it earlier, but didn't do it real service, and that is, If you want to have a Bigfoot encounter, if you actually want to see one of these things close up, what do you have to do to do it?
Now, I guess whether it's paranormal or not paranormal will bear on your answer.
Anyway, what I'd like you to do is think about it during the break, and when you come back, For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
Malaysia's Transport Ministry said Thursday that more plane parts have washed up on the same island as a wing part believed, with varying degrees of certainty, to be from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
Those new items, which the Malaysians described as pieces of windows, seat cushions and aluminum, will be tested by the same international team of experts that is examining a piece of wing that Malaysia said Wednesday is definitely from MH370.
Though the Malaysian Prime Minister announced that the wing part called a flaperon is certainly from MH370, other officials have expressed more caution and say that more testing is needed.
The Boeing 777 carrying 239 people disappeared on a flight from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia to Beijing on March 8, 2014.
Scientists have just found the biggest thing in the universe, a vast, mysterious ring 5 billion light years across.
It's so big that the researchers have no idea why it exists, and it contradicts all current models of the universe.
The vast, mysterious object is reminiscent of the halo rings in the hit science fiction game series.
The ring of nine vast cataclysmic explosions is about 7 billion light years from Earth and covers an area of sky more than 70 times the diameter of the full moon.
Each of the gamma ray bursts releases as much energy in a few seconds as the Sun will do over its 10 billion year lifetime.
Gamma-ray bursts, the most luminous events in the universe, are thought to be the result of massive stars collapsing into black holes.
It challenges current theories about the makeup of the universe, which sets a theoretical limit of 1.2 billion light-years for the largest structures.
The team now wants to establish whether known processes of galaxy formation and large-scale structure could have led to the ring's creation.
If this proves not to be the case, astronomers will radically have to revise their theories about the evolution of the universe.
Got news, tips, questions, or comments?
Visit darknewsmatters.com.
Crime sentencing has long been based on the present crime and sometimes the defendant's past criminal record.
In Pennsylvania, judges could soon consider a new dimension, the future.
Pennsylvania is on the verge of becoming one of the first states in the country to base criminal sentences not only on what crimes people have committed and been convicted of, but also on whether they are deemed likely to commit additional crimes.
As early as next year, judges there could receive statistically derived tools known as risk assessments to help them decide how much prison time, if any, to assign.
Centuries after raging millions, the plague has come to modern-day Colorado, leaving a devastated family behind after their loved ones succumbed to the disease.
The Pueblo City County Health Department announced Wednesday that an adult had died from the plague, a disease that has a long and sordid history, albeit not one typically associated with modern times or developed countries like the United States.
The agency said in a press release that the individual may have contracted the disease from fleas from a dead rodent or animal.
It's the first such case of someone in Pueblo County contracting the plague since 2004.
A dead prairie dog in the western part of Pueblo County is the only animal thus far confirmed to have the plague in the immediate area.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found in a report released April 30th that a pit bull was at the heart of a plague outbreak that sickened four people last year.
That report was especially significant in that it suggested that there might be a human-to-human transmission.
That hasn't happened in the United States since 1924.
The dog-to-human transmission was unexpected, according to Colorado's Tri-County Health Department.
The team that investigated the case said they could only find one other case of dog-to-human transmission in the medical literature.
That was a 2009 case in China.
The CDC says about seven people get the plague every year in the United States, over 80% of which has been in the bubonic form.
While it can be life-threatening, with modern medicine such as antibiotics and antimicrobials, it is usually not deadly, as it was in the Middle Ages when millions died.
I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
I'm going to be talking about the news of the day.
Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket.
When you call 1952, call Art.
That's 1952-225-5278.
Well, alright.
Mike Rugg is here.
He's as close to an expert on Bigfoot as anybody can be.
He runs a Bigfoot museum up in the mountains in Santa Cruz.
He's the co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project.
And so, he knows as much as a person is likely to know, and we're opening the line.
So, here is the deal.
Public line, area code 952-225-5278.
Our Skype lines are as follows.
In North America, America and Canada, it would be MITD-51.
MITD-51.
Outside of North America, most of the world, anywhere, it's M-I-T-D-5-5.
M-I-T-D-5-5.
And back to Mike for one question just before we get going, and that is, if you were to, you know, sit down and write a manual or maybe just a PDF on how to have a Bigfoot encounter What would it sound like?
How would you advise me, if I wanted to have an encounter, and I really don't, Mike, but if I did, how would you advise me?
Well, I would tell you, first of all, that you have to do your homework, and that entails finding an area that's close to where you are, because the farther away, of course, the less chance you've got to go there.
Find an area as close as you can That has a history of Bigfoot sightings.
Now for me that's easy because I have a museum with a map on the wall and I have people coming in here all the time and telling me they saw one in their backyard.
And so when that happens I go to their backyard and I hang out there and see if something happens.
I've done that numerous times and I've had things happen.
So if they came to the Santa Cruz area for example and they came in here I could show them on the map where these sightings have happened in the past, over and over and over again.
When they're seen many times in one place, it kind of gives you a clue as to the fact they might be there.
What about the paranormal aspect, Mike?
The paranormal aspect, what I would do about that is I would say that when you go out and you're trying to contact Bigfoot, then what you would preferably do rather than Cocking and cleaning your gun or shining a bright light into the forest.
Yes.
Is that you would sit there quietly in the dark and either meditate or play a musical instrument or do something to try and get into something like an alpha state and be thinking kind thoughts about the Bigfoot.
All right and that final I promise last question before I give you to the audience and that is do you think that these creatures can sense I'm going to have one more question, darn it.
Can sense whether you have good will or bad intent?
I think that if such a thing is possible, then these guys would be able to do that.
I think that these people still have, I'm calling them people, I like to think of them as forest people.
I think that they have all the powers, the animal powers that we lost.
You know, when we invented technology and all, our other senses started atrophying.
That's why animals can hear, see, smell, all of their senses are superior to ours.
We have a little bit of it left, actually.
You know, if there's somebody coming to do you harm, in general, most people can feel that before they know it for sure.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, you get vibes.
And so, yeah, I mean, if a human being is capable of getting feelings like that and having warnings, you know, you can be sure the Sasquatch can do it.
They're more in touch with the natural side of things.
All right, I think that I demonstrated probably very abruptly and a little scarily to most people how they sound.
What I don't know, Mike, is how do they, this is my last question, how do they smell?
Can you describe the smell?
Well, the smell, what I would say is this.
A Sasquatch, in normal circumstances, alone in the woods, is going to smell kind of like a barnyard animal.
You're going to be able to smell his sweat, you're going to be able to smell other things that are clinging to his hair, and he would have a musky animal-like smell.
But this stench that takes away your breath and can cause you to be a little light-headed and confused, that is a function of the fight-or-flight scenario.
So when the Bigfoot is stressed, afraid, to put it in simple terms, And he's got to either pull your arms off or run away.
He has this odor that comes out.
Diane Fossey reported this with the Mountain Gorillas.
Two Mountain Gorillas have a musky smell, but when two of them are fighting over a harem, they both put out a putrid odor.
And that odor, I would say, would be like the worst human BO you've ever smelt combined with a touch of skunkiness.
I think that they also indulge in a little infrasound.
and crawled around in a sewer.
It's a very strong smell, and it has a quality to, like I say, take your breath away.
I think that they also indulge in a little infrasound.
They hit you with a low frequency sound that causes a wave of fear to go over your body.
I'm not sure they'd need that for that to pass over my body.
All right.
Off we go to Skype and Will.
Somebody named Will.
Hello.
Hey, Art.
Roswell's to you and it's great to hear you on the air.
Thank you.
The technology that you're using and the quality of the signal is just amazing.
It is amazing.
You're right about that, Will.
It is astounding.
Anyway, do you have a question?
I was listening to a replay a few weeks ago Of your interview with Bugs.
And I will say that is the most convincing story I've ever heard of anyone out, any Bigfoot story I've ever heard.
Oh yeah.
I did a, I did a little bit.
I was just had piqued my curiosity so much that I did some online research and similar to what Ed was saying earlier, there was this radio personality in West Texas named Ed Hale, who, um, After he was on the radio and people noticed his voice sounded very similar to Bugs.
Oh, I see.
Outed him, and he did, I don't know if he, you may know if he really is Bugs, but he admitted to it.
No.
But he says that the Feds came to his house, took him out, made him dig up the bodies, and he no longer has any evidence.
That's all nonsense.
It was not a hoax.
I can tell you that because of everything that happened behind the scenes.
We were talking to lawyers.
We were doing all kinds of things with bugs.
No, no, no, no.
This was not any hoax.
Well, Ed Hale may be a con job then, but listening to your show, it is the most convincing story and his knowledge about Hunting and his story just made a lot of sense.
Very credible guy.
Yeah, well, people also thought that Whitley was Victor and on and on and on.
They think they recognize voices.
Trust me, Will.
I'm telling you from behind the scenes stuff, and there was a lot of it, was no hoax.
Well, thank you.
Thank you very much, Art.
I just can't say how much I enjoy your show.
So thank you for taking my call.
You're very welcome.
Thank you for making it.
And let's go, gosh, I don't know, let's take a chance and go to Amarillo, Texas, on the phone.
Hi.
Hi, this is Guy in Amarillo.
I wonder if you all might talk about the work of Nova Ketchum and some of the DNA tests that she's been conducting recently.
I think that Mike might just know something about that.
Mike, do you?
Of course, yes.
Okay, tell us what you can.
Well, Melba Ketchum had a little business where she did animal identification from DNA samples.
Right.
She was first approached by Josh Gates, Destination Truth television show.
He gave her some hairs purported to be from a Yeti.
She tested them and said that they were definitely anomalous and seemed to react positively with human markers.
She didn't expect that, so she suddenly became interested.
In the Bigfoot stuff for the first time.
Right.
So then David Polites went to her and gave her another sample, which she found to be strange and seemed to be in the human category, but not a human.
And she thought, well, we should really start to look into this.
So she put out the word and I, amongst many, many other people across North America and Canada, provided her with sample material that we had gathered.
I sent her through a long process a part of the tooth that we have on the website there.
She got some of the center of the pulp out of the tooth in a sealed sterile envelope turned over to her.
She never did use it though in her test, but she did get over 110 samples.
She vetted those down to about the best 30 or so, I don't know exactly.
And then gave the samples to three different forensics labs on three different campuses and asked them to pull full genome sequences.
Right.
And luckily a man named Wally Hurston was willing to pay the bill to get this done.
This costs thousands of dollars.
Sure.
That's why it's never been done before.
And so they pulled full genomes according to the paper that she wrote on it and published for peer review.
And they came up, all of them, with the same results.
It was a blind study.
They didn't know what they were looking for.
And they asked her, what is this stuff you gave us?
It seems to be half human and half something we can't identify.
Oh boy.
And so, as it turned out, the X chromosomes appeared to be 100% homo sapiens, but the Y chromosome was off the charts.
Meaning off the human charts?
Didn't match up with humans, didn't match Neanderthals, didn't match Denisovans, didn't match apes, gorillas, chimps, none of the above.
And so is that where it stops?
But it's about 60,000 years old.
So what she says in essence is Bigfoot is a hybrid cross between a human and apparently a leftover Ice Age caveman.
But that's kind of what I thought he was in the first place.
There you go.
Incredible.
And incredible that this creature could still be walking the Earth.
That's just amazing.
Well, that's because they were smart enough to hide.
Apparently.
The Neanderthals didn't hide.
They're gone.
The Native Americans, they fought us.
They're on reservations.
The Bigfoot hid, and he's still free.
All right.
Brian, your turn with Mike.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Wow, this is an honor to be speaking with you.
I'm a long-time listener since 97.
First-time caller.
Thank you.
And I'm a trucker.
Really?
You're in a truck?
Yes, I'm a trucker in Texas.
You know what?
I hear it, brother.
I hear it.
You know what?
I think you're my first trucker on this program.
Gotcha!
Well, nice!
Congratulations!
Yeah, I'm in Texas, and I usually listen on 1200 WOAI, but that other show with Snorri is on, so hopefully you'll make a strong comeback and replace his... Sorry, a keister, eventually.
It'd be great.
Listen, how are you listening?
You're like on 4G or LTE or something?
Uh, 4G.
4G.
Okay.
Well, you know, we're everywhere.
We're everywhere.
So, all we've got to do is get the word out.
Yes.
Anyway, you've got Mike here.
You've got Mike.
I was calling tonight because it's an interesting show.
Oh, yes.
I'm enjoying it.
And I wanted to say that George Lucas actually believed in Yeti and Sasquatch, Bigfoot.
In Episode 5, you had Yeti dragging Luke off into a cave.
and uh...
it's a squash made an appearance in every one of his uh...
shows you would know that is
but you're not going to uh... you know
well but what's what is really uh... and believed in this himself
and it there's a lot of famous people out there that we did as
well as uh... a lot of people that you know like myself and yourself
uh...
I enjoy the show, and I just want to make a shout-out to my brother, Billy.
I'm on the show, bro.
This is great art.
It was awesome being on with you.
Thank you for taking my call, and good luck, buddy.
My first trucker.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, and I want a note.
That not only is the quality of the audio that we get, no matter who it would be, even a trucker, as you just heard, on the highway, but the intellectual quality of the callers is also really off the charts, so thank you all.
Let's go to Everett, Washington, Northwest Country.
You're on the air with Mike Rughi.
Everett, Washington.
Whoops.
No, you are on the air.
Going once, going twice.
Hello?
Yes.
Oh boy, that was close.
I'm getting you and... Well, you should be turning off your device.
Yes, turn off your device.
It's off.
Okay.
Proceed.
What I'm getting is you double.
I'm getting a part of the show from about 10 minutes ago and now you live.
I don't know how you... Oh, well, it's delayed.
Anyway, do you have a question about Bigfoot?
Now I'm on.
Please turn it off.
Again, do you have a question about Bigfoot for Mike?
Yes, I do.
Okay, fire away.
Stop listening to that.
Ask your question.
Go ahead, you've got to go.
We're waiting.
You're on the air.
Go ahead.
Three, two, one.
Let me try this with two or three conversations going on.
Well, that's hard.
Do you have a question, sir?
No, you don't.
He's just not going to make it.
Here's the deal, folks.
Let me lay it out for you.
When we're here talking here in my studio, Every word we say is going to come out about a minute later on your device, whether it be a phone, a computer...
Some sort of pad, whatever it is you're listening on.
God knows you can listen on about anything.
So the moment you actually connect with the show, you have got to turn that off.
And if you don't, you're going to be hopelessly confused and sound like that man.
And you don't want to do that.
He was obviously a bright guy.
He just couldn't take the fact that, you know, he was being delayed like that.
Let's go to Flagstaff, Arizona and hope for the best.
Hello.
Hey Art, first and foremost I want to welcome you back, the godfather of talk radio.
Thank you.
You are the man, you are the Don Corleone.
To Mike, I don't know if he's familiar or not with the Falcon Project out of Idaho State University and if he thinks that The way that we're going to find or identify Bigfoot, not through use of weapons or use of stalking, but through drones or this 48-foot long blimp that they're using with night vision scopes, everything.
Are we going to find it through technology in this modern world that we're living in?
Good question.
Well, of course, that remains to be seen.
I personally think that flying over a forest is not necessarily going to be that productive.
We have all kinds of downed planes that are lost in the mountains and they have search groups out and rescue people looking for these planes.
They're flying around and they can't find these planes.
That's because the tops of the trees provide an awful lot of cover.
And so you're going to have to be looking down at areas that are open and uncovered.
And of course you could go over an area and with a thermal imager or something, in the middle of the night, in a stealthy blimp, catch a glimpse of a Sasquatch under the trees.
But I just don't think it's all... Some drones that are out there nowadays, especially using FLIR, you know, or looking infrared, I mean, you can pick up a signature of a missing child.
You can, but you know, when they're in dense forests, I understand even with FLIR, they have a lot of difficulty.
Yeah, I'm not saying you couldn't do that.
I'm saying that with a blimp, I just don't think that's the answer.
I think drones are a more reasonable answer, but we're already having trouble with these drones getting into flying space and so forth.
Right.
It's crazy out there.
With drones everywhere.
But a drone has been used by the BFRO.
They've tried that.
And the concept of putting a thermal on a drone and sending it out, as long as the drone isn't making a lot of noise, you could probably... It reminds me of that YouTube footage of those human tribes that are over there in Amazon, where they're holding those spears, getting ready to chuck it at those airplanes, those feral human beings in the Amazon.
So there might be a possibility That, you know, with the use of drones or with this Idaho State University blimp, 48-foot blimp, that we might be able to capture these images and be able to give this to the world.
This evidence, this empirical evidence that we need to prove that this creature exists.
All right.
Hold it right there.
Thank you very much, Pauler.
My guest is Michael Rugg, co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project.
And he knows a lot about this creature.
He's our guy.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell.
I used to be a rolling stone, you know.
If the course is right, I need to find an answer on the road.
I used to be a hard beating, both on one.
But the times have changed.
The less I say, the more my work gets done.
Cause I'm living free, and you don't need a freedom.
Midnight Matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness like Art Bell.
To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
That's 1-952-225-5278.
Yes, indeed.
And even, I guess, if you're rolling in a truck, it can be done.
You just heard amazing.
Skype is, in North America, M-I-T-T-5-1.
That's the way to call us.
Let's put in M-I-T-D-5-1.
You can search it.
You'll find it.
Put it on your list.
Call us when you want.
Outside North America, the rest of the world, it's M-I-T-D-5-5.
M-I-T-D-5-5.
And here comes Mike again.
So, Mike, here comes a caller for you.
I'm not sure who it is.
I think it's Arnie B is what it says.
Hello.
Hey, Art.
How are you doing?
I'm doing okay.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Las Vegas, over the hump from Pahrump.
Oh, you're in Las Vegas?
Yep.
Okay, go ahead.
Well, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area.
I'm 63 years old, and I used to go fishing every Friday afternoon.
We used to have a great time, and I went up in Northern California.
And I gotta say, I've never seen anything other than just regular critters for 15, 20 years.
So you called to say you've never seen Bigfoot?
Yes.
Alright, well thank you very much.
I appreciate it, and good luck in the future if you want to see Bigfoot.
I'm not sure why you would call to say you've never seen Bigfoot, because that would comprise, I would think, a high, high percentage of the population.
So, while I appreciate your call, I'm not sure about it.
Let's go to Fargo, North Dakota, and on the phone and say hi.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Hello.
Go ahead, sir.
Yes, yes.
My question is for Mike regarding Sasquatch using Uh, not only spoken language, but also written language.
And I, when I say written language, I, I mean by like small stick arrangements in spoken language.
I mean by, uh, their own language, which may be the Sierra recordings that some are familiar with, but also there's many people would say, including myself, that they speak in our languages.
So, I know that Mike thinks that they are an archaic human, which I believe is such, and humans, well, they speak and they write, and so I want to hear Mike's thoughts on that.
A really good question, actually.
What do we know about their forms of communication, Mike, either written or vocal?
Well, both the things you mentioned I'm familiar with.
There's a man named Scott Nelson, who is a linguist by trade.
He teaches five languages at a small college in Missouri, among them ancient Persian.
He was a cryptolinguist in the Navy, where he was given special software that he used to listen to recordings of people speaking in any and any language, and his job was to analyze those recordings of those conversations.
And try and figure out if there was any code in there, any secret messages being tried to be put across.
So what we have here is a linguist with a very deep set of skills, deeper than the average linguist.
And he heard some of the Sierra sounds, what they call the samurai sounds, where the Sasquatch is talking and it sounds like John Belushi playing the samurai guy.
And so when he heard that, he was immediately piqued.
He had to hear more.
So he went to the two men who had the recordings, Ron Morehead and Al Berry, and said, Can I have the original tapes so I can feed it through my Navy software and then analyze it?
They said, Oh my God, yes, you're just exactly the kind of person we've been looking for.
These tapes have been around for almost 50 years.
So he took on the project, started listening to these tapes, and then he published a couple of papers for peer review stating that the Bigfoot have language.
So we heard about this.
I mentioned it to a few of my science friends and they of course made their inimitable remark about, well, just because the guy teaches language doesn't mean he's not a flake.
So I said, okay, well then let's invite him out here in person so we can see if he's a flake or not.
So we had a conference and I invited Scott Nelson here and he struck me as anything but a flake.
He's a very nice man, easy to get to know.
He's very open about his work, very skilled as a linguist.
He said that the Sasquatch tapes that he has been studying indicate that the Sasquatch speak with a basic Native American combined with a bit of Spanish, a little bit of Pidgin English, a very small amount of just a dab of Chinese, and a lot of animal mimicry.
I guess that would actually make sense.
Mingle, really, and so they would pick only little bits and pieces of different things, which is just what you said.
All right.
Claire on Skype.
You're on the air with Mike.
Oh, my God.
All right.
I love you.
All right.
Thank you.
I've been listening to you for so long.
I'm just I'm so excited right now.
I love you.
I'm so happy you're back.
Thank you.
And great.
Good luck with the show.
I just had a question.
There was a recent discovery of some supposed bones that they believe Bigfoot may have been
actually chewing on and I forget the name of the person who discovered them
but they have the bones and the actual
marks on the bones are from an extremely large homo sapiens type creature. I was just wondering
if you knew about that and if you had anything to say about it.
Well I think Mike will have a lot to say about it. Did you go to Artbell.com and take a look at
some of the mandibles and the things he's got up there? If not go to Artbell.com
He's got teeth up there, he's got mandibles you're really gonna want to look.
Oh, I'll definitely look.
It's a little bit hard because I'm on the iPad and I've got TuneIn on and Skype, and I'll definitely take a look at that.
And thank you so much, Mark, for answering my question.
I love you!
Well, I haven't really answered it yet, but we're going to try.
Okay, take care.
So, Mike, I haven't heard anything about that.
She was talking about somebody who actually has bones that they believe were chewed on by Bigfoot.
Yeah.
You know, I have to admit this is a story that I'm not up to date on.
I just recently heard something about this and I can't speak from any knowledge of whether it's a credible story or not.
Right.
But I'll tell you what I've learned is anything on the Internet you can go ahead and flip a coin and it's 50-50 if it's worth its weight at all as far as the Bigfoot stuff.
Okay, but this is not something you've heard about?
Big story?
I haven't no particular information about this particular story.
No.
So I can't comment on that intelligently.
All right.
Let's go to Danville, Virginia, I think, on the phone.
Hi.
Yes.
I want to say thank God you're back on air, first of all.
You know what I mean by that?
Thank you.
I lived in Southern Virginia in 1974 to 76, and I wish I could do a whole show with you guests.
We were a bunch of teenage boys, and we had dirt bikes and trail bikes, and we stayed in the woods.
More than we stayed at home.
Yes, sir.
And there was one of these things that migrated through Danville, Virginia.
And we've seen it so many times, and we tried to tell our parents about it, and they said it's just somebody in a big coat trying to scare you, that type of thing.
So, you would describe this as a Bigfoot?
The Patterson film, I've seen that exact thing standing 15 feet from it, except it did not have the breasts.
Fifteen feet, I've seen it.
Okay, Mike, you hear people with stories like this, what questions would you ask him?
Well, I would try to find out what time of day it was and, you know, where the spot, you know, and just to see how it might come about.
He said he's having multiple sightings.
Did you see it more than once?
Yes, we've seen it over a period of about two years, the thing migrating through that area.
You said we.
How many people are we talking about?
Uh, five to six.
It was just the local neighborhood boys.
We all had dirt bikes and trail bikes.
We spent a lot of time in the woods.
And so when you saw it, what sort... Go ahead and tell us what it was doing.
Uh, mainly it looked like it was observing us.
It was looking at us and watching what we were doing.
And it was never violent, except one time.
If you could call it violent, they started throwing rocks at us down on the creek.
We were having a little cookout, a little party type deal.
And it started, rocks started sailing through the top of the trees.
Were you playing loud music or anything?
No, just a bunch of boys sitting around laughing and talking and roasting the weenies on the fire.
You know how that is.
That's kind of like loud music.
Yeah, I hear you.
Mike, have there been other reports of these creatures throwing rocks?
Yeah, rock throwing is quite common, and what that generally means is the Bigfoot is letting you know that you're not wanted here, that you're bothering him in some way, shape, or form.
Maybe he didn't like the sound of what you guys were talking about, or the smell of your jib.
I don't know.
The only emotion that we ever got out of this thing was sheer terror.
And the rocks it was throwing were half the size of basketballs.
Oh.
Yeah, but did they hit you?
No.
What?
They did not.
No, they never hit you.
They did not.
They probably came close, but they didn't hit you.
And that's the way it always is.
Yes.
They'll throw rocks... Go ahead.
Both of you cannot speak at the same time, so... Yeah.
You go ahead and say what you want, Caller, and then Michael's talking.
Okay?
Okay.
The night that I observed it, it was late night, and I was right in the edge of the woods there, and this thing, it was an old abandoned tobacco road.
You know how a growed up dirt road looks, how wide it is?
Oh yes.
I had a flashlight going from side to side, because I was scared to death it was going to run into it.
And this thing took one step sideways, and it was in the middle of that road.
And it was about 15 feet from me.
Oh, that's close.
And it terrified me.
It stood there and looked down at me.
It didn't move.
It didn't eye costal.
It just stood there and looked at me.
And I turned and ran and sheered camera.
And I was 16 years old then, and I've never been back down in that area since then, to be honest with you.
Not at night, not by myself.
Don't blame you.
That sounds like a real story, Mike.
Yeah, sounds real to me.
Yeah, any other questions?
Me?
No, Mike.
Oh, huh.
Was the area where this was happening Uh, a fairly remote area?
Were there any homes nearby?
No, this place is down back in Virginia.
Oh, now you're breaking up a little bit.
Okay, so no, it was way out in the middle of nowhere.
Very interesting story, and the guy sounded legit to me, so there you go.
I think once it opens up, once one person starts to tell a story, it'll usually bring others Who suddenly get brave.
It just works that way.
Nick on Skype, you're on the air with Mike.
Hey Art.
Hey.
I've never seen a Sasquatch myself, but I just wondered if Mike has ever heard of reports of them around glowing orbs and UFOs.
You mean associated with UFOs or glowing orbs?
Yes.
Yeah, I guess it's actually a good question.
Mike, how often do you hear of a mixture going on?
That's one of the rare things, but I do hear them.
Of course, there was a story out of Ohio, Rome, Ohio, that involved glowing orbs and Bigfoot tracks that glowed in the dark.
And then when some investigators went there, one of them was rolling on the ground and speaking in tongues as if it had been possessed.
There was a whole series of strangeness associated with it.
And there were several people, investigators, who went out and studied it, and it was written up in a little pamphlet.
And I have had people come in here who claim they have been in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
A woman claimed she saw an orange orb.
And saw 30 individuals come out of the orb dressed in hoods.
And then the hoods were shed and they were suddenly little aliens with large black eyes.
This little alien did a little dance for her and kind of went in and out of reality for her.
Are we sure she wasn't going in and out of reality?
Yes, well I asked her what drugs she may have been experiencing.
She said no, this all happened while she was completely sober.
Another man told me he saw a Bigfoot that was, well he said, I don't know how to describe it except that my headlights went right through it, but I could see its outline.
And I picture the Predator movie, you know, the creature while it's cold.
Oh, yes.
So, and he had a witness with him in the car, and she claimed that she saw the Bigfoot kneeling at the side of the road before it went in front of the headlights, and she could see it, and it just looked like a normal flesh and blood Bigfoot.
All right.
All right.
Hold it right there.
We're going to... By the time I got out of the car, it was invisible to me.
All right.
We've got to break here, Mike, so hold tight.
Bigfoot is the subject.
Michael Rugg is my guest.
This of course is Midnight in the Deserts in the Night.
Don't you love the lover?
Facing the sun like a bird of night and Who will you be to love her?
While you're alive you've never seen a woman Strangling by the wind
Would you say she promised you heaven?
Will you ever win?
She is like a cat in the dark She is the darkness
She rules the night like a firefly Loving when the sky is dark
While you're alive you've never seen a woman The End
Music Midnight in the Desert is a wild trip across the day's
divisor.
Get your ticket to ride by calling 1-952-CALL-ART.
That's 1-952-225-5278.
Michael Rugg is my guest.
He's co-founder of the Bigfoot Discovery Project and curator of the museum up in the Santa Cruz Mountains, Bigfoot Museum.
He's got a number of items on display there.
You can see some of them.
Up on Artbell.com right now.
So, welcome back, Mike.
It's really good to have you.
And I guess you're hoping, Mike, that in your lifetime, what remains of your lifetime, you get to see an actual Bigfoot, right?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
That's, well, you know, we talk about the bullet list.
For me, the bullet list, number one, is to see this thing established.
You said bullet.
Bullet, bullet.
Actually, it's bucket list.
Well, excuse that, excuse that.
Bullet, let's see, that makes me think you've got bullets and guns on your mind.
No, no, no.
That's a bucket list.
That actually was a faux pas there, wasn't it?
So anyway, it's on your bucket list.
My bucket list, yes.
All right.
Ben, no idea where you are, but you're on the air with Mike.
Hi.
Yeah, hi, Art.
This is Ben in Tucson.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
Oh, just by the way, excellent shows, incredible shows.
Dave Twinkle Toes is shaking in his boots, I gotta tell you right now.
Thank you.
Yes, thank you.
Yeah, so my question is, there are literally millions of trail cameras out there everywhere, put by hunters, conservationists, game wardens, U.S.
Forest Service.
Why haven't they caught something conclusive on trail cams?
Oh, that's good.
Very good, actually.
Mike, what do you think?
Well, I think because they don't attempt to hide them.
They put the trail cam up on the tree just like they would for a deer or a cougar.
The deer comes walking along, walks right up to the trail cam, looks right at it, no big deal.
They don't have the intelligence to be able to consider that it might be, because it's a man-made device, some kind of a threat.
The Sasquatch, whether they're human or primate, Either way, I think they can recognize a game camera as being man-made and not, you know, properly in the wooded environment and sticks out like a sore thumb.
And so they don't go near it.
Sir.
All right.
Up to Everett Washington.
You're on the air with Mike.
Hi.
Hello.
Good evening.
It's a pleasure to speak with you, Art.
Thank you.
A quick question for Mike.
You were asked earlier by Art about the nature of Sasquatch, whether they were docile or not, and you provided us with a story from Quite a while ago.
A few moments later, you mentioned David Palladio's name, and of course, Dave has made a career, I don't know if Mr. Palladio has made a career, out of documenting disappearances, which he attributes to Bigfoot.
And I'm wondering if you think his work is bogus, or if you put any credence in it whatsoever?
Well, I do know Dave Palladio personally.
I've had some Some business with him and we have had some agreements and disagreements about Sasquatch.
He wrote a book about missing people, but in all the interviews that I've heard, when the interviewer tries to back him up against the wall and get him to say it's Bigfoot, my impression is that he says, no, I don't really think it's necessarily Bigfoot.
As a matter of fact, I think it has more to do with things like cattle mutilations.
And I don't think that he is saying in his books that Bigfoot is stealing all these people.
I think the Bigfoot are smart enough to know that if they pick us off one by one, one of these days we're going to get a wind on it and then it's over for them.
I think they're smart enough to leave us alone.
That's what they've decided to do and that's what they continue to do.
Now that's not to say there might be a rogue Bigfoot who's got a thorn up his rear end He has sexual desires for a particular person or something, and goes nuts.
I mean, if people can do it, so could a Bigfoot.
So, I can't say it's never going to happen, but I just don't think it's going to happen.
We're going to have him on the show.
We'll ask about that, I promise.
On Skype, somewhere or another, Alistair, hello.
Hey, Art?
Yes, hello.
Get good and close to the microphone on your computer, please.
Can you hear me now?
Well, you sound like you're in a tunnel, so you've got to get close to that mic, but I can hear you.
Where are you located?
I'm in South Africa.
Oh!
Well, you're our first South African caller.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, Art.
And go ahead, if you have a question about Bigfoot.
Are there any stories in South Africa about creatures of this sort?
Yes, there is.
Not by Bigfoot as such, but there's another creature called the Tokolosh, which is pretty cool.
But I just wanted to ask a question.
Yes?
Do you still have that sound clip that Linda Moulton Howe played about the Bigfoot?
Oh, yes.
I played it earlier.
I hate to subject people to that twice.
It's pretty awful.
Oh, OK.
Cool.
Sorry I missed the beginning of the show.
Well, you can always catch the podcast later.
It'll be in there.
And it's a frightening sound.
And we've got pretty good fidelity on this program.
So it's awful to hear.
Anyway, how did you hear about us, if I can ask, in South Africa?
How did you even learn about us?
Well, I've been listening to you since just before you left Coast to Coast.
And, uh, my friends have been listening to your classic shows.
And, um, uh, I first heard about you because of Whitley Strieber.
I loved his books and, uh, heard you.
And, um, yeah, that's that.
What am I hearing in the background?
Oh, sorry about that.
It's my cat.
That was your cat?
Yeah.
All right.
Thank you very, very much for the call.
That was a cat, really.
South Africa.
Sorry, Mike.
That was the first call I've had from South Africa.
Let's go to, oh my, where am I going?
Let's see.
I think we've got somebody else on Skype, and I think I just succeeded in putting them on.
It's my fault.
I'm sorry.
I put somebody on hold by mistake.
Hello there.
Whoever you are, you're on the air on Skype.
Well, I thought you were anyway.
Skinny Bob, I think, is the one on the air.
Skinny Bob, are you there?
No.
Skinny Bob is not there.
Too bad.
Michael, I bet, though, is there.
Hello, Michael.
You're on with Michael.
Hi, Art.
Greetings from Nacogdoches, Texas.
A long-time listener, and glad you're back on the air.
Thank you.
I just wondered about the probability, or possibility, as the case may be, Of using Google Earth or satellite imaging, some sort of photographic evidence from that perspective.
Sure.
To sort of isolate or identify instances of Bigfoot.
Of course, you know, before you go, Google Earth takes pictures of the Earth, right?
But they're just sort of taken whenever they're taken.
Usually they're old pictures or, you know, a few months old at least.
And so you mean searching those?
I don't think there's enough definition in Google Earth presently to define them.
Certainly the military would be able to see them, no question of that.
But you're talking about whatever kind of modern technology we could apply to it.
Right, totally agree.
I mean, if we could somehow isolate specific regions, which I think that we probably have, and I don't know, you're talking about vast quantities of land area, of course, but I just wondered if there wouldn't be a more scientific way to sort of verify the existence of these creatures.
All right, very, very good question.
So, new science, Mike, what do you think?
Well, the man earlier brought up the drones, and it's been my opinion for quite some time that if you do the research and you find an area where you believe there is a Bigfoot presence, that if you could somehow fly over that area quietly in the middle of the night with a thermal imaging device, you could probably and possibly pick up the heat signature of these animals.
Then, what I think you would have to have would be a platoon full of paratroopers with nets.
And you could then drop them down there and lasso one, and I suspect the military has done that already.
Okay.
Well, you know, the drone is pretty easy.
I've got a drone, though I wouldn't risk it in the forest, looking down with heat.
Anyway, we'll be right back.
We've got a break.
sentiment and
for dark matter news on the last draft On this day in 1945, at 816 a.m.
Japanese time, an American B-29 bomber, the Enola Gay, drops the world's first atom bomb over the city of Hiroshima.
Approximately 80,000 people are killed as a direct result of the blast, and another 35,000 are injured.
At least another 60,000 would be dead by the end of the year from the effects of the fallout.
U.S.
President Harry S. Truman, discouraged by the Japanese response to the Potsdam Conference's demand for unconditional surrender, made the decision to use the atom bomb to end the war in order to prevent what he predicted would be a much greater loss of life for the United States to invade the Japanese mainland.
And so on August 5th, while a conventional bombing of Japan was underway, Little Boy, the nickname of one of the two atom bombs available for use against Japan, was loaded onto Lt.
Col.
Paul W. Tibbetts' plane on the Tinian Island in the Marianas.
Tibbetts B-29, named the Enola Gay after his mother, left the island at 2.45 a.m.
on August 6th.
Five and a half hours later, Little Boy was dropped, exploding 1,900 feet over a hospital and unleashing the equivalent of 12,500 tons of TNT.
The bomb had several inscriptions scribbled on its shell, one of which reads,
Greetings to the Emperor from the Men of Indianapolis, the ship that transported the bomb to the Marianas.
There were 90,000 buildings in Hiroshima before the bomb was dropped.
Only 28,000 remained after the bombing.
Of the city's 200 doctors, before the explosion, only 20 were left alive or capable of working.
There were 1,780 nurses before.
Only 150 remained, left to tend to the sick and dying.
You're listening to Dark Matter News.
on Art Bell's Midnight in the Desert.
Got paranormal news tips?
Strange news?
Take a look at past and future programs at darkmatternews.com.
Less than two months after SoftBanker's Pepper robot went on sale in Japan, another intelligent humanoid is posed to make its way into Asia.
That's because Boston-based Jibo just closed an $11 million strategic investment round to eventually bring its social robot to households in Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and China.
Jibo started out as an Indiegogo project for a robotic smart assistant that can help families.
After pulling in a whopping $3.7 million from its crowdfunding campaign, massively exceeding its $100,000 target, the company went on to land a $25.3 million funding round led by RRE Ventures in January of this year to kick things up a notch.
Jibo said the fully-fledged version will provide a range of different interactions, such as handling reminders, ordering food, taking photos and videos, and other everyday assistant tasks, like sending email, connecting with the Internet, or facilitating communication.
Like Pepper, it could provide a friendly and easy-to-use interface for seniors looking to keep in touch with family, or keep their routine organized using the Internet.
Earth may have a hairy mane of dark matter flowing around it.
Well, that's quite an image to imagine.
Nearly 85% of the matter in the universe is thought to be so-called dark matter.
Stuff that has not yet been detected directly, because it only interacts with normal matter via gravity, rather than being distributed smoothly through galaxies.
Simulations show that dark matter particles should clump into features like halos, disks, and streams.
Gary Prezu at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California wondered what would happen if a stream of dark matter pierced a planet like Earth.
He calculated that the planet's gravity would bend the particles' trajectories and focus them to a point.
This lensing effect would concentrate dark matter along an axis passing through Earth's core, reaching densities about a billion times more than average at the focal point.
Prezu calls these features hairs.
The focus, or root, of one such hair would be about a million kilometers above Earth, just beyond the moon.
If you find where these hairs are, you can put a detector right in front of one of them, he says.
I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
Men and women.
Skype up.
Call Midnight in the Desert at MITD 51.
That's MITD 51.
That's right.
Skype up out there.
I love the way he puts that.
What a voice.
Mike Rugg is my guest.
And he's here right now.
Back to Mike, and questions from all over the place, including from, looks like Steve, somewhere.
Steve, hello.
Yeah, hi.
Hi, Ross Wells again.
Calling from Germany again, we talked yesterday.
We did, Germany.
Oh, I had a few small questions.
My first question would be, have there been any reportings of Bigfoot in Germany?
Second question would be for Mike.
Whatever happened to this Bigfoot I thought they caught?
I was following for a while but her name was supposed to be Daisy.
Some guys have caught her?
And the last question, I'll make it real quick.
There's been people who said they can speak the language from Bigfoot.
They study this, and one guy actually says he's been living with Bigfoot, and they bury their dead.
That's why we never find bodies.
Those are my questions.
I'll take the answers off the air.
All right.
Well, let's deal with them one at a time here.
Anything, Mike, about Germany?
Any Bigfoot reportings in Germany?
No, nothing worth talking about that I've heard of, but that's not my area of concentration.
All right, Daisy.
Anything named Daisy that you know about?
Daisy, that doesn't ring a bell.
There must be some other name that he's not getting, because I can't think of anything with the name Daisy.
What was the context, again, of the question about Daisy?
Well, something about living with Daisy.
Oh, well, yeah.
He talked about people.
All right.
Deckers, Colorado, you're on with Mike.
spend time with them talk to them and all this stuff and and yes there are
people who made those claims and those claims are largely ignored by most and
even people in the bigfoot community who are convinced bigfoot is real they don't
want to go so far as to suggest that it might be able to think and talk and all
these other things all right and they think that that stuff is being made up
by people I see all right Decker's Colorado you're on with Mike hi hi so
from Michael my question has to do with some of the alternatives to the
Bigfoots being biological entities and Like earlier, he was talking about aliens in costume.
So I'd just be interested in hearing about some of the best alternatives he's heard to Bigfoot being a biological entity, like an ancestral spirit or something like that.
Sure.
All right, here it comes.
A lot of people think, perhaps even dimensional, right Mike?
Yep, that's a common school of thought.
And of course this comes from the fact that people have seen, or I believe they've seen Bigfoot in association with UFOs in various contexts.
So then of course they believe that the star people are involved.
And there are people who claim that they have spoken with both star people and Bigfoot people.
Let's see.
So everything you have in the UFO phenomenon, the abductee, the contactee, all those different sort of side categories, they all exist within the Bigfoot phenomenon as well.
And so, you know, people make up stories, things do happen that people try to report, and it can certainly be a miasma at times.
I know.
I've got a million messages.
Through the wormhole, Zaki says, why does everybody want to prove They exist.
They don't need to be protected, tagged, or studied.
People know they exist.
Know they exist.
Just enjoy them and leave them alone.
I have no desire to prove to the skeptics what I know.
That person is very sure, and they don't care about proving to anybody anything.
How about that?
Well, that's fine.
You know, this is something that I've toiled with.
I've had sleepless nights about it.
Over the course of the last ten years, especially, since I started going for this in a big way and came out of the closet with my research.
I started to think, well, these seem to be mild-mannered forest people.
If we expose them, then what's going to happen to them?
Then I realized here recently that, oh, too late, the cat's out of the bag.
If I drop my Bigfoot research and stop working towards this end, That doesn't mean there isn't going to be somebody or twenty more people trying to do it.
Sure.
And I want to be sure that I'm involved in it so maybe I can have some say in all this.
Maybe I'll get a vote at some point because of the amount of time I spent on it and the dollars spent.
A lot of money, I bet.
Yes.
And then make sure that these things are treated properly when the time comes.
Because it's too late to hide it.
People know they're there, like he said.
So kick back and enjoy it.
That would be just fine.
Okay, one more wormhole message.
Troy says, I was curious what the average lifespan of a Bigfoot might be.
I would assume it is shorter than our own.
I'm not sure why he would assume that, but maybe.
Well, he'd probably assume because of Western medicine and the various medicines that we have at our disposal.
Oh, I see.
That we can make our life long.
Like, I would be dead now if it wasn't for Western medicine.
If a man hadn't put a thing up my artery and put a stint in my heart, I'd be a dead man.
So I have a place for that.
Yeah, I think that's what he's referring to.
I do too.
Any indication of lifespan of a Bigfoot?
Some people claim.
There's a woman in Tennessee who claims she spent the better part of 50 years watching a Bigfoot grow up.
He was kind of a next-door neighbor.
He lived there for that time.
She used to teach him words, English words.
He used to teach her Bigfoot words.
And it's a pretty elaborate claim.
She backs it up with recordings Well, I would sure love to interview somebody with a claim like that.
I really would.
By the way, folks, any Bigfoot real stuff, contact me at artbell.com.
That's artbell.com.
And of course, if you know who is out there, contact me as well.
You know who I'm referring to.
Skinny Bob.
That's a name for you.
Skinny Bob, you're on the air.
Roswell, I was curious if there were any protocols for interaction.
I'll take my call, my answer off the air.
Any protocols for... Well, that's a good question, actually.
Any protocols for interaction with a Bigfoot?
Oh, you mean what you do if you bump into one in the woods?
Yeah.
Okay, well, you step back and show it that you don't have any weapons.
You would probably want to avert your eyes rather than look at right in the eyes, because most animals are intimidated by that.
So you'd want to be careful with that.
Good point.
I think that if you showed it to respect that it's the boss immediately, that then you might have a chance to have some kind of contact.
Okay.
These phone lines are just burning up.
I'm never going to get to everybody.
It looks like Gerald's, is that correct?
How about I go with Duke?
Duke, Duke it is.
And you know, all these things show up on the phone, I have no idea.
Anyway, go ahead.
Okay, Duke from Dayton.
I'd like to ask Mike a question.
Mike, you talked earlier about, you had talked to a special effects expert, or a Hollywood type guy, about the, I think it was the Patterson film.
Okay, that's fine.
But I remember 20 plus years ago, there was an alien autopsy video, and there were dozens of these Hollywood types that came out and said, there's no way this could be faked.
They talked to the guys that did the Star Wars and all these other things, and they all said it couldn't be done.
Similarly, they talked to a lot of these photo experts who said there was no way you could fake these films, and one of those guys was Ahmad Art.
So, how do you compare the two?
Well, Collar, I think we're way past the time when you can Even talk about that.
I mean, they can do anything they want with CGI now.
It's just impossible.
It's too good.
No, no, Art.
But remember, that film was made, what, 40 years ago.
I'm talking about based on the events that occurred when the Patterson film was made.
Okay, alright.
So, can the Patterson film be nailed down as absolutely authentic, is the question, because of its age?
No, no, no, Art.
I wouldn't put it that way.
Let me try again.
If Mike is saying he talked to a Hollywood special effects guy who told him there is no way in 1960 whatever that that capability existed to make that that suit or whatever he thought it was.
How does he compare that to 30 years later in 1990 when the technology was much further
along when you had people saying not only can you not make that suit or that special
effect, you can't even fake the film.
You and I both know that at least the alien stuff, the alien autopsy stuff has all been
shown to be fake.
Well in the first place you are talking about alien autopsy movies and I'm talking about
the Patterson-Gimlin film.
So, I really can't speak to the alien thing.
I never believed that.
You know, that's beside the point.
But Mike, what I'm saying is... It's a Patterson film.
No, Mike, but what I'm saying is that you're using an expert.
No, no, no, no.
Just because some men said that this is that and that's that, that doesn't prove anything.
You're right.
Exactly.
You just proved my point.
That's what I'm telling you.
You've got a guy who you say is an expert, who came out, and you're quoting him and citing him as the expert who says this could not have been done.
And I'm telling you that 20 years later, 30 years later, the exact same thing happened, and they were proven wrong.
No.
Okay, but hold on, Caller.
I think all he's done is say that Patterson's film is the best evidence.
That's all he's said.
No, no, no.
What he said earlier... You keep saying no, no, no.
He had interviewed or talked to a world-class Mexican guy.
Yes.
And I'm just saying that if that happened, you know, if that happened with the alien autopsy... Excuse me.
Oh, you keep confusing them.
Call her, call her, call her.
You're misrepresenting what I said.
Let's stick with the Patterson film.
Forget the alien autopsy for a minute.
Just stick with Patterson.
I'm sticking.
Oh, you are?
Good.
Alright, the Patterson film.
It is being called by Mike the best evidence.
He said a special effects guy I talked to.
I said a man named Bill Mons spent years using his skill set with a grant to do so to analyze the film with no preconception one way or the other as to the outcome of his examination and he found that it was not a costume And he wrote that down in a book and published it for peer review.
It's called The Scientific Method.
And he was a man that was perfectly suited and with the skill set to do such an operation.
So if you want to have an argument about the Patterson film, if you want to have an argument about the Patterson film, to do that scientifically you have to put that in writing and prove he's wrong.
No, no, no.
You're talking about what somebody said in a minute or so.
Caller, you got one more shot.
I don't care if the alien autopsy was fake and somebody said it wasn't.
That proves nothing.
Mike, Mike, I'm on your side.
I have no dog in this fight.
What I'm asking you is, the man that you quoted as being, as writing this report, obviously he had experience in the area of special effects and costuming.
True?
Yes.
Okay.
And then, based on his review of a film, he came back and said, there's no way that that could have been faked.
And I'm telling you, the exact same thing happened 30 years later.
True or false?
Okay, well, you've got so many dogs in this pipe.
30 years later with what?
The autopsy film?
That has nothing to do with this.
Right.
When he made that circle... It's all over the map here.
Yeah, I know.
The Narsen film was in 67.
If you're going to duplicate it, you have to use the methods available then.
Not what's available 30 years from now.
I don't know what you're saying.
All right.
Let's go over and talk to Wayne, maybe.
Not with that kind of audio.
Wayne, I appreciate the try, but your audio was awful.
We'll try instead.
Kurt.
Hello, Kurt.
Hey, Art.
How are you?
I'm fine.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
Let me turn this thing down.
Down, down, down.
Down, down, down.
Okay, there we go.
Why with all today's technology, with everybody being able to videotape everybody with their cameras and things, why are the Bigfoot photos always so blurry and far away?
Not showing the face and not getting anything like... Today on TV you see everybody getting things.
Yeah, well you know what?
We will get better things.
I mean, now with the latest cameras, Android or, you know, the iPhone cameras, you can get good video.
Now that doesn't mean the person holding the camera, especially if you're trying to take a... Can you imagine trying to hold a camera steady to take a picture of a Bigfoot Well, I just think that all the whole time that everybody's been talking about that, and that original guy admitted it was fake, and there were droves of people coming out after his... That original guy admitted what was fake?
Who?
Well, his footprints with the... you talked about it, that original guy... Henry Wallace?
Yeah, whatever his name was.
But anyway, I'm just saying that every... I mean, by now, even in the 90s and early 2000s, there should have been one better right up close in the face.
You'd have all kind of...
There's cameras you can zoom in on and they're all blurry and you can't see nothing.
I think it's all phony.
I think it's hogwash.
Well, if you happen to see something like that, caller, you do your best to hold it steady while you're scared out of your wits and see how you do.
Yeah, it's as fake as Jamie Summers and the Sasquatch on Bionic Woman.
Fake.
There's a man underneath that.
That suit.
Now, how do you know that?
Oh, I just instinct.
Gut.
Instinct.
I know my lord.
He wouldn't have some maniac run out in the woods.
He would not allow that.
The lord would not let... If the lord had something to do with this?
If they could get a clear picture with all the cameras, you could zoom in.
Lord, would news cameras, news stations have cameras?
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
They shoulda, woulda, coulda.
They sure shoulda, woulda, coulda.
Blurry, bunch of bull crap.
Blurry mess.
Yeah, the lord wouldn't let that happen.
Bye.
Not the Lord.
Goodbye.
Oh, my.
Oh, God, I love this show.
All right.
The Bigfoot subject brings out the... Yeah, but the Lord, really?
Danny, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Thank you for taking my, I guess, Skype call or whatever you want to call it.
Yep.
Okay, so I want to talk to you about... I'm calling from Oklahoma.
And there's a place in Oklahoma called the Sacred Heart Mission, which was supposedly like the first Catholic mission in Indian Territory.
Yes.
And it exists.
It's real.
You can look it up online if you want to.
But so I used to go there and there is an area you can go where there's like a graveyard and all this crazy stuff from a long time ago.
There are legends about like werewolves that came and killed people there.
Well, I went there with some friends.
I went there legitimately one time to do like a video piece on it, and all of my batteries would die every time I would go there.
It was a really kind of mystical, crazy place.
Well, see, that answers the last caller's question.
What was the last caller's question?
He wanted pictures, and it was all fake to him.
Well, see, batteries die, so what are you going to do?
Yeah, well, there you go.
Real quick, because we're about out of time.
Okay, so what happened was, I went there one night, and There were several of us there and there was something we couldn't see but we felt like we were being watched and there was the most blood-curdling scream any of us had ever heard and so we bolted and got out of that place and never went back.
So I guess, do you want me to end your show with what I would Think maybe a big foot scream that I heard out there in the woods in southeast Oklahoma?
I wouldn't risk it for the world, man.
Go ahead.
Okay, now, if you... I may wake up my wife doing this, so if you hear what sounds like a baseball bat... I'm not responsible.
Yeah, I'm not responsible for what happens to you.
Go!
Okay, here goes.
AHHHHHH!!
Well at the very least she woke everybody up.
Uh, he woke everybody up.
for Richard C. Hoagland coming up next.
Hey, listen, Mike, thank you so very much for being on the program.
It has been an absolute pleasure.
And you obviously know as much as can be known about Bigfoot today.
So we'll have you back sometime.
Just thanks for being here, buddy.
All right.
Very, very good to be here.
Thank you, Art.
All right.
Good luck.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And take care.
What a blast.
What an absolute blast.
Quality of audio.
Quality of Colors.
from the high desert and the great american southwest good night everybody
so midnight in the desert and there's wisdom in the air
i've been looking for the answer All my life I've felt you there.
As the world we live in threatens, are we heeding all the signs?
Have we lost our intuition?
Are we running out of time?
Midnight in the desert And we're listening
Ooh, we're listening And we're listening
Ooh, we're listening.
▲
Export Selection