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July 29, 2015 - Art Bell

02:28:55

Art Bell MITD - Preston Dennett UFOs Paranormal

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54:09

leo ashcraft

07:02

preston dennett

48:51

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johnny cash

00:52

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case is, wherever you are in the world, this is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Welcome to the program.
		This program is free to all.
		We appreciate those of you who join me, time travelers.
		Men are able to download programs anytime they want.
		Send me messages on the ever-present wormhole, and so forth.
		Rules of the show are simple.
		Only two of them, no bad language, only one call per show.
		No bad language, one call per show.
		That's it.
		Now, I'd like to thank people at the beginning of the show, so here we go.
		Tell us for the great sound.
		Joe Talbot, hearing from thank you.
		Keith Roman, my webmaster, of course, Dr. J, my producer, all of you.
		Now, the Belgab website, a lot of friends up there.
		They are a little wicked, a little lovable, a little both, a little rough, but, you know, that's how you like it.
		Then we also have something called People Who Love Art Bell, and I want to thank them, MJ Sten.
		It seems I never mentioned them, and I think one of the reasons is because of the name, you know, people who love Art Bell.
unidentified		I mean, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there's a new one called Midnight in Desert.com, and they follow the show, and they are a milder bunch.
		I think both of those are listed up on the site.
		Now, I think that's all the sites.
		The Stream Guys, of course, they carry the big heavy load to get to you.
		LV.net, they provide the back and forth internet that gets me on the air.
		And Peter Everhart, of course, my sales guy, up way up north in Alaska.
		I think that's it.
		All right, I've got a few things that I want to say.
		One, it looks like they found it.
		370.
		A U.S. official says air safety investigators have a, and this is in quotes, high degree of confidence, that a photo of aircraft debris found in the Indian Ocean near Reunion, as a matter of fact, or on reunion, washed up, is of a wing component unique to the Boeing 777.
		I think Boeing is sure, though they haven't identified the numbers yet.
		And I think this is 370.
		So everybody can stop scouring Diego Garcia.
		And I think probably what they're doing is they're trying to figure out the proper protocol to notify relatives.
		And, of course, they do have to read the numbers.
		So we'll see.
		But it looks like they have found it.
unidentified		Um...
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This goes to last night's show, and I want to read it because I really think it does go to last night's show.
		Back in 2001, as part of Stephen Greer's disclosure project, you know Stephen, right?
		Sergeant First Class Clifford Stone blew the whistle on what he referred to as unacknowledged special access groups or USAPs within the U.S. government.
		Programs like this are commonly referred to as black projects or deep black programs, and they are of an extremely covert and secretive nature.
		Of course, unacknowledged special access programs are said to be highly compartmentalized, something I mentioned the other night, right?
		And even with those, the necessary security clearances can only access the information on a need-to-know basis, and you only need to know so much.
		They're hidden from public oversight and accounting.
		In other words, no watchdog committee watches over them.
		And they probably consume, for example, in 2013, Tom Edward Snowden leaked secret government documentation that proved, A, they do exist, and B, we spent about $52.6 billion toward those operations in 2013.
		So that all goes back to last night's show.
		$52.6 billion.
		How many doctor's appointments would that be?
		And now something, by the way, coming up, of course, we have a guest tonight.
		Eventually, we will be getting to him.
		Preston Dennett is my guest, and this may interest him.
		It interested me.
		He talks about ghosts.
		And this comes from anomalous.com.
		A lot of good things do.
		There's something notable about males and violence in real life, right?
		How many times does somebody walk in somewhere and start shooting?
		Usually it's a guy.
		But there is something notable about them after life.
		There's a study conducted by somebody named Eldenur Harldensen, I believe it is, a psychologist at the University of Iceland, of all places, of 337 cases of people who have reported encounters with the dead.
		Quite a survey.
		The apparitions were mostly males and were the cause, and it's where the cause of death was known.
		And in 30% of the cases, the person had died violently.
		That may not sound very significant.
		30%, right?
		But the percentage of violent deaths in the study during the relevant time period, studies of reincarnation cases, most notably by the late Ian Stevenson, show the same pattern of mostly males being involved Again and again and again.
		So I guess mean in this life, mean in that life.
		And then there's no way I can let Cecil go without comment.
		Cecil the lion.
		It's got to be the saddest doggone story I've ever seen.
		Cecil was killed by a dentist.
		I guess you know that now, right?
		This was a lion in a preserve in Africa, in a preserve.
		And it is said that it was lured out of the preserve so this dentist could, from what I heard, shoot bows and arrows, shoot arrows at it.
		And then I guess it was up to like 40 hours before poor Cecil, loved by many, and tagged, by the way, died.
		It took him a long time to die.
		So this guy could have his people lure him out and shoot him.
		And the public is really ticked off.
		I mean, really ticked off.
		Now this doctor has sort of just disappeared.
		I don't blame him.
		Everybody's after him.
		He's much hated.
		But it's just really a sad story if you could see this lion.
		My goodness.
		If anything, it'll bring you close to crying.
		That's it.
		I have cats, as you know.
		Recently lost my Yeti.
		Oh, God, that was hard.
		So Cecil's nothing but a big cat.
		Really big cat.
		Was a really big cat till the dentist shot him.
		So that's a big deal.
		And then there's one final item, and then we'll break.
		And that is, I discussed this the other day.
		I brought it up.
		It's the cube.
		I don't know why I'm stuck on the cube, but I'm stuck on the cube.
		And I asked Keith to bring it to the top of the website, which he did.
	But then he thought I was done with it, and I was just going to discard the cube like it was nothing.
	And so he eliminated it from the website.
unidentified		And I called him today and said, Keith, where's the cube?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought you were done with it.
		No, I'm far from done with the cube.
		And I'm going to discuss this with our guest coming up.
		No, I'm not done with the cube.
		I would like you all to go there and look at it if you get a chance.
		These are still photographs taken, I might add, by many people.
		That's really important.
		Taken by many people.
		So please go take a look at it.
		And I think this is something serious.
		Maybe I'm wrong.
		Maybe I'm fooled.
		Maybe I am a fool.
		But it's being discarded by much of the UFO community.
		Why?
		Because, well, it's a cube.
		And I think that is a tragic, serious mistake on the part of uvology.
		Now, maybe it's some cube balloon or something.
		I don't know.
		But it's really odd.
		It doesn't belong.
		It certainly doesn't belong popping out of a cloud.
		Here's my thinking.
		Who are we to say that a UFO has got to look like a flying saucer?
unidentified		I mean, isn't it just silly to say that?
unidentified		For all we know, UFOs are invisible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or UFOs are cubes or something else that doesn't make sense.
		I think this cube is extremely mysterious, real because many people got photographs from different locations.
		And it started me thinking, well, ufology seems to be sort of dismissing this, and I think it's because it's not a saucer.
		How could we possibly know how they think?
		How could we even guess what they might build?
		Isn't that rather, what's the right word?
		Egotistical of us or earth-centered of us or human-centered of us to be doing?
		I think there's something really there.
		And because it doesn't look like what we imagine doesn't mean it isn't worth our attention.
		Go to artbell.com.
		You'll see it at the top.
		And you can hear the comments of the people.
		Well, all right.
		Coming up, Preston Dennett began investigating UFOs and the paranormal.
		Tonight, we're not going to concentrate so much on UFOs.
		Well, a little cube talk at the beginning.
		And then out of body, and maybe some ghosts.
		Anyway, he started all this back in 86 when he discovered that his family, friends, co-workers were having dramatic and unexplained encounters.
		Since then, he's interviewed hundreds of witnesses, investigated a wide variety of paranormal phenomena.
		He is a field investigator for the MUFON UFO network, a ghost hunter, a paranormal researcher, the author of 17 books and 100 articles.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Been all over the place.
		Radio shows, TV shows, history channels, deep-sea UFOs, and UFO hunters.
		His research has been presented, for example, by the L.A. Times, L.A. Daily News, Dallas Morning News, you get the idea.
		All over the place.
		He's taught various classes on paranormal subjects and lectures across the U.S. He currently lives in Lesita, California, and he'll tell you all about his website.
		will be here in a few moments.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		We'll be right back.
		The clock strikes 12, and Midnight in the Desert is pounding packets your way on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, please direct your finger digits to dial 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call ART.
unidentified		So, go take a look at the cube.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, two separate people who happen to catch good shots of the cube coming out of the cloud.
		Or whatever it is it's doing.
		And I'm telling you, it's weird.
		Well, all right, on now to Preston Bennett.
		We're going to talk about a lot of things out of body, mainly, I think, but we're going to start.
		We're going to start with the cube.
		Hey, Preston.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing really well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are in Reseda, California, right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I called you before the show and I said, look at the cube.
		And I take it you did.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I looked at the cube.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now, it doesn't look like a UFO.
		Well, in the strictest sense, I guess it does.
		It's unidentified and it appears to be flying.
		Other than that, though, it doesn't match up with what most people think it ought to look like, but it's weird.
		Really weird.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		No, it's not silver or metallic.
		It's not saucer-shaped.
		It's not V-shaped.
		It's not spherical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		These are the common ones that I think we hear a lot of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but they might not think like us, huh?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, how could they possibly?
		I mean, by definition, they are alien.
		And this is one of the things that's really, I think, kind of frustrating and at the same time interesting about investigating UFOs is the variety of these craft.
		Yes, we do get a lot of saucer shapes, but I don't think there's a shape out there that we haven't heard about, whether it's crosses or donut shapes or crescent shapes.
		I mean, it just goes on.
		I had one guy tell me, I don't know how to describe the shape.
		It wasn't octagonal.
		It had all these different sides that were different lengths.
		It was very oddly shaped, like a lump.
		So he kind of described it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We seem to want it to be a saucer, you know?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, saucers are nice shapes, definitely.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Very convenient, but certainly that's not the only thing people are seeing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that that came from the early movies, science fiction movies that we had, because they were all saucers.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's interesting because Kenneth Arnold, you know, he didn't actually see saucers, and apparently the Roswell craft wasn't, you know, technically a saucer.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, you're absolutely right.
		Okay, well, anyway, I really wanted to call attention to that.
		I want people to look at it.
		It is, to me, as much, if not more, of a mystery than stuff that's like a saucer.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know what I like about the photograph, actually, is you can see this thing before it's fully formed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		As if it's interdimensional and coming into our physical space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the other thing.
		I mean, who says their method of propulsion is remotely like anything we even imagine?
		It might have just materialized there.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right, but you can see it interacting with the cloud.
		It just clearly looks like a very large object quite a distance from the camera.
		It would be hard to fake for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would.
		And I don't think it was a fake.
		I mean, when people get it from different angles, I suppose it could be a fake craft, as it were, but it's not a fake photograph, that's for sure.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, I listened to the interview, and you can tell the witnesses are obviously sincere.
		Yes.
		And with multiple witnesses, right off the bat, there you've got a good case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it didn't go nuts like most things like that would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm convinced the reason it didn't go nuts, even though it was covered, is because it didn't look right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of Arthur C. Clarke, 2001, the monolith.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it scared people a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Exactly right.
		Oh, I'm getting a little notice of internet connection problem from you.
		But I don't hear it.
		You sound great.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can hear you fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so much for you, Skype.
		All right.
		Let's move to OBEs.
		And I really, really love the subject of OBEs, Preston.
		I only had one in my whole life.
		It happened when Ramona and I went to Paris, France.
		And it was amazing, Preston.
		I had been asleep.
		I woke up and like somebody snapped a switch.
		And this is the only way I can describe it.
		I was in the most joyous, welcoming, amazing place I had ever been.
		It was absolute pure joy, but it scared the heck out of me.
		And I snapped right out of it.
		I was somewhere else.
		I mean, instantaneously, I was somewhere else, an amazing place of some kind.
		But boy, did it shock me, Preston.
		I didn't do any tours.
		I didn't get to go to some other place on the earth as people have been described to do with OBEs.
		But it was incredible.
		You know, there aren't words.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		So there really aren't.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I know exactly what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're on a radio show, so we're going to have to find words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what is an out-of-body experience?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the simple definition is an out-of-body experience is when you perceive yourself as being separate from your body.
		And to elaborate on that a little bit, we all have a dream body or an astral body, if you will, which is separate from the physical.
		And in fact, we're kind of projecting down here from the so-called other side into a physical body.
		So, an out-of-body experience is sort of the reverse of that.
		They call it projection, but in fact, we're going towards our source.
		And we not only have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going toward our source.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		We not only have a physical body and an astral body.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		As we get into this, it gets a little bit more complicated than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, what is the source?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Where we come from.
		God, all that is, the spirit which moves through all things, the universe, the light.
		It goes by many different names in different cultures, but it's pretty clear when you start doing this stuff that there's something up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm going to give you a gift that we'll keep on giving, okay?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I'm ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned the light, right?
		Right.
		John Lear is a friend of mine.
		You know the name, I'm sure, right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Learjet fame, daddy.
		Anyway, I did a very serious interview with John Lear, one in which he said the most important thing I'm ever going to tell you, Art, or something along those lines, is as follows.
		When you die, you will have a choice of going to the light or the darkness.
		Don't go to the light.
unidentified		It's a trick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'll leave you with that, Preston, for you to think about that the rest of your life.
unidentified		It's bugged me ever since.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I've been in the light.
		I've gone out of my body.
		I've done all of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're here to say the light is the way.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It's part of the universe.
		There's a source there.
		There's something really wonderful within the so-called light that near-death experiencers are reporting.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are you sure enough of the goodness of the light to say, John's all wet, go to the light?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Go towards the light.
		Yeah, I think that you're going to be fine.
		I would say when you're at that point, make the decision then.
		This is not something you don't want to do.
unidentified		I mean, if you're uncomfortable with it, it's driven me nuts ever since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you make the wrong choice, and there's no going back.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the problem.
		This is a big problem on the other side.
		People who don't go towards light, who are stuck here on the physical plane as ghosts.
		And a lot of these people don't even know they're dead.
		And this actually turns up in pretty much every out-of-body book I've ever read.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear what I read at the beginning of the program about the study in Iceland of the people who died violently?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes, I heard it.
		I'm like, oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		That's the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's real.
		In other words, I've said jokingly a few times, you know, nasty on this side, nasty on that side.
		Do you think some truth to that?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		There's kind of levels of vibration.
		And if you are vibrating, you know, with low-level emotions like lust or anger or greed or all of this kind of stuff, violence, you're not going to be able to move up to the higher realms where it vibrates much faster.
		It's much more beautiful.
		You have many more, what I would call, I guess, supernatural powers, this sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had the lust thing.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		You know, this is something that the astral body is actually called the desire body.
		And this is something you'll find out pretty quick if you start doing this sort of stuff regularly.
		Because this is where all your emotions come from and your suppressions and anything you've really not dealt with.
		And when you pop out of body, this is not at all unusual.
		People have become absolutely terrified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I get that.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Or completely joyous.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Or consumed with lust or the desire to eat food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to me if you pop out of your body and then get consumed with lust, you're in real trouble because you need that body.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's very much like having an erotic dream, you might say, except you're awake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get it, sure.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		So it's actually a really wonderful experience because you can live out pretty much any fantasy you want.
		You can create feasts of food.
		You can do just about anything that you can think of.
		The power of thought on the other side is amazing.
		You just think it, and it has a huge difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The way you're talking about it leaves not much question in anybody's mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've been there.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You know, I absolutely believe I have.
		I really do.
		I think that we actually all have out-of-body experiences, but the trick is really remembering them.
		And I'm not alone with this.
		This is what other out-of-body travelers say as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, I can't forget mine.
		It was so profound that I can't forget it.
		There are various tricks, aren't there, to getting out of your body?
		Let's go there.
		I have heard it said that, for example, feeling paralyzed and hearing a buzzing sound is very frequently something that precedes a possible OBE.
		Is it true?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		That's called the vibratory state.
		And that means you're ready.
		You're actually feeling the higher vibration of the next dimension, which is what that is.
		So you're ready to go.
		It's basically just a process of relaxing until you get to that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I've been there.
		I can't get past it.
		It's too scary.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a huge fear barrier, which you have to get over and just do it.
		The thing to remember is you can't be hurt when you're out of body.
		It's a non-physical state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know this is what everybody who talks about OBE says.
		You can't be hurt.
		But I don't know.
		Let me ask you this.
		When you're out of body, is that I hate to use this word, but I'm going to, is that your soul that is separating from your body, in your opinion?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know if it's quite like that, rather than it's just sort of an awakening to what's already there or kind of reaching out to the larger parts of yourself.
		To a certain extent, it feels like that.
		I mean, it feels like you are no longer in your body.
		If you get good at this, though, you can get to a point where you can do what's called bilocation.
		And I've had just a few tiny tastes of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think we have souls?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, when you leave your body, would it be your guess that it is probably your soul that's a leaving?
		We have to be a leaving right now.
		We'll be right back in a few minutes.
		So, relax, enjoy yourself.
		That sounds pretty good.
		We're talking about an oasis for the soul, perhaps, with Preston Dennett right now.
		We're talking about out-of-body experiences.
		Preston, welcome back.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so I was talking about or asking about the soul, whether you thought the soul left the body when you leave the body.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, some people do call it soul travel.
		You know, I really don't know.
		I'm kind of just telling you what I experienced.
		Oh, that's fair.
		So I can't really say that this is my soul, but I do feel like you have a separate body, a dream body, which has actually these amazing abilities, such as flying.
		Flying alone is worth the price of admission for doing this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Oh, flying.
		I'm so into flying.
		And, you know, just sort of floating and flying around the buildings and the lakes and the trees and the forest.
		We all kind of want to do that.
		And how cool it must be.
		And you're claiming you have done it.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Walk through walls, visit distant locations.
		I think a lot of people had flying dreams.
		And this is a real close indicator that you're close to remembering what's going on at night.
		We're all having these experiences.
		Each night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know whether you're ready to walk through a wall?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you try it.
unidentified		It's a little disconcerting, I have to tell you at first.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Like, all right, I'm going to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boom.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I have to tell you, it took me over a year to keep my eyes open while doing it.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And I wouldn't fight through telephone wires for a really long time just because I was a little bit nervous about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you really, you swear on a stack of somethings that you've walked through walls.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		It's a remarkable experience.
		You can actually feel it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is so cool.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And brick is like a different texture from wood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, oh, oh, wait.
		Describe it.
		You said you can feel it.
		If you walk through a wall.
		Never having walked through one, tell me, what does it feel like?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's hard to describe, but you can feel the surface of the material, whether it's rough or smooth.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Like brick is kind of grainy and rocky, and you can feel it through your entire body, by the way.
unidentified		Wow.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		For your arms and legs.
		Wow.
		Which is different from wood and smaller, you know, thinner substances like glass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know words are hard for this.
		Let me try this.
		Is there any difference in the resistance of wood going through a wall and walking through a brick wall?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Wood's easier.
		Glass is easiest.
		And you kind of pop out.
		It's like going through a bubble.
		And you feel a little tug and boink, you're out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's cool.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's been times I've walked into walls and boom, hit it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really appreciate your being able to describe this.
		It's awesome.
		I've always wondered what it would feel like.
		And you're saying there is a difference.
		And you said with glass, it's kind of like a little and you're through.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But you can reach a point where you don't actually feel any of this if you're vibrating at a really high frequency.
		But normally when a person pops out, they're still pretty low frequency and they're trying to disorient themselves.
		And you try and walk through a wall and you might bounce off of it, which has happened to me many times.
		It took me a little bit to learn how to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, that's what I'm worried about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Failure at walking through walls probably has some consequences, especially if you're really sure of yourself and you just go strutting right up to it.
unidentified		Boom.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there was one time I popped out of body.
		I'm like, yay, I'm doing it.
		I flew through my bedroom door, flew through the hallway door.
		I was into the hallway outside, and I flew down the staircase of my condo building where I lived at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And landed into the second landing and sunk right up to my knees.
		And I'm like, oh, oh, no.
		What do I do now?
		Like, flanging around, and I lost consciousness and was pulled back into my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that's part of the really scary part to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It just really is.
unidentified		The possibility that you might sink into something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not good.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me alleviate, at least some of your fears, because the truth is, what I found is it's very beneficial and that the dangers are way overstated.
		And I found, in fact, it's got a lot more benefits than dangers.
		There's no real danger of getting locked out of your body or getting possessed or going too far away or getting lost or anything like that because you have this silver cord which pulls you back.
		In fact, the problem is staying out.
		That's truly the problem.
		And you get pulled back at the least if you even think about your body.
		If you have a lot of fear, it will pull you back.
		A lot of emotion of any kind will pull you right back into your body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've got to give you this.
		Every person I've talked to on OBEs over the years has said roughly the same thing.
		So that resonates with me.
		I've never had a description of walking through things.
		That was really cool.
		But the part about getting yanked back, if there's danger or if there's big emotion or something like that, most have said that.
		That's what causes me to kind of buy into all this, Precedent, because everybody's saying the same thing.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, you know, at first you're thinking, my God, you know, is this happening to me?
		This can't be real.
		I must be dreaming.
		And you get into this sort of quest.
		Beginners always want to start moving objects.
		I tried that for years, and I still can't do it.
		There's some people who claim to be able to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, not possible, I guess.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I haven't been able to do it.
		But you want to, what I was able to do is go to a distant location and look at it and like, wow, you know, I didn't expect this to look like this.
		It was a location near my house, which I'd never been to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And I'm like, all right, you know, I'm going to go there and see if this is actually true.
		Because what it was was a cement river, which is near my House at the time, and it had dirt banked up on the sides, huge amounts of it.
		I'm like, there's no way.
		This is a cement river.
		There was plants growing and all this stuff.
		I'm like, I have to go see this.
		And that's how I got proof that, you know, this is not, well, the first time I got proof that this is not just a dream.
		Because it's very, like, pretty disorienting when you're out of your body and you're walking around.
		You feel like a ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so here's a question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you are out of your body and try to move something, is it just your hand that goes right through it?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Or you might think you actually moved it.
		And, you know, because there's kind of weird duplicate energy forms, I guess, thought forms that you're moving around, which do move, but it's not the actual physical object.
		So, you know, I haven't been able to do it, and I was obsessed with it because I don't know.
		I felt like this ghost walking around, you know, and I was dealing with a lot of emotions, dealing with a lot of lust, a lot of gluttony.
		I would crave these feet of food and all this kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That brings up another topic which I want to ask you about.
		You said you felt like a ghost.
		Is it possible, Prescott, that some ghost reports are people doing OBEs?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the case, really.
		I think there's a few verified cases, not nearly as many as I would think would be out there.
		But almost certainly that has to be the case.
		Because there are a lot of cases in the literature, at least, where people have gone over to other people's houses and appeared, which I've tried to do, by the way.
		And I'm flying around in front of people.
		I'm like, here I am.
unidentified		Do you see me?
unidentified		Do you see me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seriously.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		They don't see me.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		They cannot see me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you can see what they're doing, right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If not, can you hear them?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me think about that.
		I don't think I've been able to do that.
		I don't think so.
		There's been a couple of cases.
		Yeah, I was once I went to San Diego.
		I have a friend who lives down in San Diego.
		I thought, you know, this is a far way to go.
		I'll try that.
		And this is kind of what you do.
		You have a plan in mind.
		And if you don't have your agenda ready, you're going to get distracted.
		You're going to lose consciousness.
		You have to really focus.
		It's a type of consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying you can plan this like you would a trip.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		You really hesitated when I asked you about whether you could hear people.
		That's interesting.
		You would think the auditory aspect of it would either be shockingly there or even more shockingly missing.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, when you go to the other side, so to speak, it's telepathic.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You do hear music and things like that, but when people are talking, you're hearing them in your mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That says it all.
		Do you always hear them in your mind or sort of just if you want to?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Usually.
		Not always.
		No, I once popped out.
		This is something I want to do.
		I said, I want to meet an enlightened master, you know, someone who's made it.
		Right.
		And this beautiful woman appeared on my balcony, just a beautiful blonde woman.
		She says, keep your eyes open.
		And she grabbed my arm and pulled me up.
		Of course, I closed my eyes, and I instantly opened them, and she's depositing me into this field.
		And there's this guy sitting on a chair who I'm presuming is the enlightened master.
		And he gives out this one weird sentence, which is what they do, these kind of cones or poems or something, little riddles.
		And it was really interesting what he says.
		He says, when you do something, do it absolutely.
		And he said it out loud.
		He was punctuating each word.
		So it was an odd sentence for sure, which has hidden meaning to it, which I could talk about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		The whole thing is just so astounding to me.
		How many times, Preston, have you done this?
		I mean, is it so many you can't count?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, I probably could count it, but it's got to be in the thousands there, consciously.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I think, again, that's a trick question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't.
		I don't mean it to be.
		I don't mean it to be.
		I really don't.
		I'm so curious about this.
		And of course, people are going to come forward and they're going to say, I want to do this so badly.
unidentified		How do I do it?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, you know, for one thing, there's no real qualifications.
		All you need is the desire and the time to do it.
		You need to be open-minded enough to do it.
		You know, put in the discipline.
		I don't think there's any link to physical health because some people who are really good at this have ill health and others are very healthy.
		And there's no real dangers, as I was talking about earlier.
		And the only real obstacles, I think, are that people are skeptical about it or they're scared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		They're lazy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to pin you to the wall here.
		You know, you said there's no real danger, and I've had other people say that to me, too.
		So here's the question that I need an answer to.
		How do you know that some people who have left their body on this excursion into Joyville, wherever it is you're going, didn't have the cord snap.
		And we now regard those people who left us in such a way as having died in their sleep.
		I mean...
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I can definitely speak to that.
		There is one case, you know, supposedly, where something like that presumably did happen.
		But, you know, it was only one.
		It's kind of what I would call an outlier.
		And one person did tell me that they had a similar experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A friend of mine says it only takes one white crow to prove there's white crows.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		These are statistically insignificant, though.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you look at the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases of people who are doing this, there are just a very small residue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Flying is safer, I know.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and anyone can do it.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It's absolutely easy to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go back to this one that you know of, this outlier, you called it.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		All I can tell you about the case is supposedly that this lady was Proficient at doing out-of-body experiences, and one day died at a young age.
		And there was no real link that they could make, you know, specifically that she was out-of-body practicing at the time she was doing it.
		But it's one case we have of people who are really good at this and are doing it regularly, and they die at a young age, mysteriously.
		Most of the people experience actually the opposite.
		I've got 20 cases of people who got healed of chronic illness or healed of cancer or healed of all kinds of illnesses, colds, healed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just from being out of their bodies?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Yeah, there's these energies on the other side.
		This is where your perfect body is.
		The astral body is the superior body.
		It doesn't age, and your physical body is kind of modeled after it.
		So you can actually reach these healing places and heal yourself of physical illness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, Seattle's making quite a claim.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got 20 cases.
		You know, they're anecdotal, but one really good one is Bruce Mohn.
		He cured himself of sarcoidosis, which, you know, his case was a really bad one, and it's often fatal.
		And he was getting worse and worse and was able to go out of body and work on this wound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's better than Obamacare, huh?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I recently tried to go to one of these healing temples and was successful.
		I couldn't believe it.
		I was so excited.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying there are temples on the other side where you can go to be healed.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I'd read about them several times.
		People have, you know, you hear different kind of explanations and descriptions, I would say.
		And I'm like, well, this is something I want to do.
		I'm going to put this on my list.
		And I did it.
		I popped out of body and I made the command, sort of made the intent known.
		And at that point, you're pulled off through the other side or up into the sky.
		I was 50 feet up above my house.
		And then, boom, you go through this weird barrier, I guess you would call it, and you're on the other side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And it's what I would call the heavenly realms.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, I'm not a very religious man, but this is what it feels like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not overly religious either, Preston.
		So I'm with you there.
		I have hopes, but I have no strong faith.
		And I wish I did.
		I wish I did.
		And it might well be that seeing what you're describing would absolutely do the trick for me.
		Bring me to the healing temple.
		Hey, I've got a bad back.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		What you do.
		Anyone can do this.
		You just meditate on this subject as you go to sleep.
		There's various ways of reaching the other side.
		And you don't have to go through all the weird exit sensations and things like this.
		I'm going to say about half of the out-of-body experiences I have, I just wake up on the other side.
		And you're fully awake, by the way.
		Colors are much more vivid.
		It's the real reality.
		This is a pale comparison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I can just get past the fear, I mean, it really is scary, Preston, because you do go through that thing where there's a humming sound, and you may go through feeling paralyzed.
		These are frightening things to happen to a person before you get to something better.
		They really are scary.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, and it can get very loud.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It can feel like an electric shock and feel like you're standing next to a jet engine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, see, that's what I mean.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, that's as bad as it gets.
		And then pop you're out.
		And boy, is it worth it.
		And there's just so many things you can do.
		You can learn about your past lives, for instance.
unidentified		You can visit deceased loved ones.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And so by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slow up, slow up.
		Past lives.
		Past lives.
		My goodness, Preston.
		So you believe in reincarnation?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm leaning towards it for sure because I have some weird memories flowing through my head, which I can't pinpoint to this life.
		And this has kind of always been that way for me.
		But really, when I started going out of body, I'm like, all right, let's see a past life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you did?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I was able to do it several times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I inquire what you learned of yourself?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I learned that at a lot of them.
		One life was, you know, as a Native American.
		It's really interesting because often you're taken to the most traumatic or emotional incident of a lifetime, which is often the death scene.
		This was one where it wasn't.
		It was sort of the, what would you call it, come of awakening where a 17-year-old turns into a man type of ceremony?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would definitely not want to go to my death scene.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's scary.
		Let me tell you, I pulled out from a couple of them.
		I'm like, no, no, I'm not doing this.
		But, you know, this is something you learn a lot about yourself.
		I learned a lot about, you know, my obsessions with ships, for instance.
		Yeah, I've had a lot of lifetimes where I was in the Navy or sailing or a pirate even.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		A lot of lifetimes where I was a monk, which I found kind of interesting because I'm really not religious, but I'm kind of really into the same sort of thing if you think about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you're like a travel agent for the other side.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's amazing.
		I can't ask people enough to just try this.
		You know, if you still have fear, here's one really good way of doing it.
		You think of someone you love who's already on the other side.
		And you can create a love bridge.
		And pretty much everyone has at least one person they know who's passed away.
		And what you do is you just concentrate on that person that night and say, I want to see you.
		I want you to take me on a tour to the other side.
		I want to see how it's going.
		Let's connect.
		And it will happen.
		You might take a couple of meditations, but often it'll happen on the first night if you're really into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know a lot of people who have medical problems take off to Bangkok in Thailand, get them taken care of, come home with extra money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one kind of travel for your Health, and you're talking about an entirely different one, which is just so much harder for me.
unidentified		I can never get past that buzz.
unidentified		Just never get past it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is, of course, Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
		Don't take a lot of ways.
		Thank you.
		And without the protection, and so you are interviewing you at the speed of light in the darkness.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here I am.
		Preston Dennett is my guest.
		I'm so glad to have him.
		We're discussing out-of-body experiences OBEs.
		I've interviewed over the years many, many people about this topic.
		And Preston, with some exceptions, is telling me exactly what they've told me.
		I believe that this is the real thing.
		You really can do it, folks.
		I know it's scary, and I'm trying to talk you into something that I'm scared to death of myself, so that's probably uncool.
		But it really is the real thing.
		You just have to be able to get past this buzzing, get past this perhaps being paralyzed a little bit, and somehow launch yourself.
		And I guess it's like, Preston, like a learning experience.
		Once you've been out, second time is easier, third time easier, that kind of thing.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would say that that's true.
		Though there are still times, you know, I'll be like lying down, I'll just go to bed, and suddenly I feel the vibrations.
		I'm like, whoa, whoa, I'm still awake.
		And I fly out, I'm like, whoa, you know, that's happened a couple of times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do understand.
		Let's just one last time go back to the dangers, which there are no dangers except for that outlier, which is worrying me a little.
		So generally, any strong emotion, any fear, fear is a strong emotion, any, I don't know, anything will yank you back into your body and you will be awake immediately.
		Is that correct?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And, you know, again, the problem is staying out.
		You know, it's not that there aren't any dangers.
		You can pop out and like, oh, there's hostile ghosts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now, see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, why did you tell me that?
unidentified		Hostile ghosts.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I want to be honest.
		Okay, well, you know, which happened to me, you know, a couple of times, but I just ran back to my body, basically.
		And that happens automatically.
		It's like, oh, no, I'm going back.
		Well, but yeah, it was scary.
		It definitely was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Describe that one, if you would, please.
		Hostile ghosts.
		You popped.
		Well, I'm sorry.
		I need to get away.
		I've got so many questions in my brain.
		And one is this.
		It seems to me that the time this occurs is in that, I don't know, weird little time between consciousness and sleep.
		There's this little weird gray area, right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the doorway to the, you know, getting out of body.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Sort of hypnagogic state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Which is where the magic is.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's where it happens, the crack between the worlds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, it's such a weird time, isn't it?
		Between when you're awake and when you're asleep.
		And I can tell when it's coming because I start having weird thoughts, really just off-the-wall weird thoughts about weird things.
		And then I'm asleep.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've tracked it very carefully.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Suddenly your reasoning goes right out the window.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And you're just imagining things and you're thinking they're real and it becomes very kind of almost chaotic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's no dangers except, of course, dying because you didn't get snapped back and or manifesting before hostile ghosts.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, there was a time I would say I popped out of body and I'm like, all right, I'm going to go.
		And I'm going to be totally honest with you.
		Usually when I go to the other side, it sort of happens automatically.
		Or I do it by just flying real fast and saying, this is where I want to go.
unidentified		Right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And you pop out in these beautiful heavenly realms.
		Or sometimes farther where it's even more amazing.
		But sometimes, you know, you are kind of in between and there's what you call a darker place.
		Yes.
		Sort of blackness or the lower realms.
		And I've visited these as well to a certain extent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever intentionally gone to those darker places?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it was not nice.
		People were pushing and shoving, and you try and pull them out of this place, and they can't hear you.
		And it's very uncomfortable, to say the least.
		But once I was flying out, and I felt some weird little creature grab my ankle.
		Well, this does not feel human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, let me tell you something.
		You have just scared away 70%, 80% of the people who were in your camp ready to try it.
		Women don't like to think about hostile things grabbing their ankles.
		They don't like it at all, I can tell you.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I know how it sounds.
		And it did creep me out a little bit.
		I reached down and I felt its little fingers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And I peeled them off.
unidentified		You peeled them off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, you can, even though you can't move objects out of body, you can move other, oh, dare I say it, other out-of-body entities.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		It feels real, in fact.
		There's not an experience on Earth that you can't duplicate, and it feels, it's not real, even more real.
		So, yeah, you can interact with it.
		It's not the physical environment, an environment that's exactly like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, really, Preston, what is one of the scariest things you ever see in a movie?
		It's some lady standing there with this evil, probably detached hand headed toward her ankle, and everybody screams.
		So that's a rough one to get past.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know, I'm telling you, the benefits of this are so much better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but as a travel agent, you might as well pull your shingle off your door talking about ankles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		So, yeah, that was one experience.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And another, I'll move on to another, which is unpleasant, was that I flew out of my house, and there was three men there who were clearly hostile and wanted to hurt me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not the three wise men.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		No, these were not wise men.
		These were murderers.
		These were thieves.
		These were, and worse, I mean, these were vile.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lovely.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Lovely.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		So I'm like, all right, you know, I'm leaving.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably all three of them products of having died violently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, God, that was an interesting story, wasn't it?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of all peace, peaceful.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It certainly touched the nerve, you know, because there's, as I said, a lot of ghost problems out there.
		In fact, if a person does this astral travel, at some point, you're going to be called on to save a lost soul.
		I'm like, hey, that hasn't happened to me.
		And so I did it.
		I did it intentionally.
		And yeah, it was amazing.
		I found this lost, I was taken actually to this girl who had apparently suffocated under her house.
		I had the impression that she was murdered.
		But I couldn't say how.
		But she was scared.
		I'm just terrified.
		And I'm like, you know, it's okay.
		It's okay.
		Come with me.
		And she wouldn't.
		I'm like, you know, your mommy wants to see you.
		And that sort of, you know, got her.
		And she's like, yeah, really?
		And I'm like, yeah, you know, I'll take you to your mommy.
		And I'm just, you know, winging it.
		Because I didn't know what to say.
		She was a poor little girl.
		I felt terrible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what every bad guy going after a poor little girl says.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to take you to your mommy.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, somehow I was able to convince her.
		The poor thing.
		She took my hand.
		I could feel it.
		I've read a lot about this, that it's, you know, at some point they disappear.
		You want to pay very close attention.
		So I had her hand and I was looking at her.
		She was just a little girl with blonde hair, you know, a little sundress.
		Cute little girl.
		And I'm like, let's go.
		See your mommy.
		And I flew off to what I would call the heavenly realms.
		And boom, no sooner was I kind of right through that barrier and into this pastoral place where she was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, you had me during the first hour.
		You had me cold.
		I was ready to try it again.
		And now you've lost me.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Pastoral place where she was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, you had me during the first hour.
		You had me cold.
		I was ready to try it again.
		And now you've lost me.
		I'm scared again.
		What do you think?
		We'll come back to OBEs in a second.
		What do you think causes people to become stuck here, ghosts?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I think there's a huge number of reasons.
		And the number one being they're skeptical of life after death to such a point that they don't even consider the possibility that they're dead.
		So that's a huge problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That the dead just don't know they're dead.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		They don't know it.
		They honestly do not.
		You know, it seems hard for me to believe, but this is a real problem.
		And as well, there's that whole category of people who are addicted to whether it's alcohol, drugs, or sex, or even their home.
		They don't want to leave their house because they love it.
		They know they're dead and they don't care.
		Another reason is guilt.
		People feel so guilty that they're afraid that they're going to be judged by God if they go to the other side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have heard that people do get attached to houses, that ghosts get attached to houses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'll be honest, I'm attached to my house.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I love my little house.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to leave it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it is part of a human's comfort level, right, in life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your house is your castle, whatever you want to call it, your comfort place.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		But here's the thing, Art.
		You have one on the other side.
		You can create one, is what I'm saying.
		And it's awesome because you can build things any way you want with just your thought power.
		You know, once you get good at this and you go up, what I would say, you know, to the next dimension beyond, or a dimension beyond the pastoral realms, which is, you know, gets really crazy up in the higher realms because you can do all these things that are like superhuman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I wanted to talk to you about this tonight because, well, because I wanted to talk about it, but I had no idea that you were this into it, this experienced with it.
		How long have you been doing this, Preston?
		Did you begin young or what?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I began pretty young, actually.
		You know, this is now my favorite subject, by the way.
		I love this stuff.
		It has transformed my life to such a degree that I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can hear it in your voice.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's so much fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were doing this?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, my mom died in 1984, and I was 19 years old.
		And so it was a real shock.
		I think our family was very skeptical of this kind of thing.
		I know they were.
		Certainly I was.
		Didn't believe in ghosts or life after death or anything paranormal.
		And so this was a really difficult thing to deal with, obviously.
		Sure.
		I saw her ghost.
		I'm thinking, all right, I'm really flipped my lid.
		I'm not going to tell anyone this.
		I'll tell you that.
johnny cash ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get that too.
		if you were to describe all this, I think in everyday life I mean you and I are on a program right now that talks about this kind of thing.
		But you know, if this was unraveling to a stranger in a bar, it'd be a problem.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would probably not work out real well for you.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		No, I wasn't happy about it, but I started having dreams about her that were very powerful.
		And I just had I was convinced she was visiting me, even though I knew it was impossible.
		So it was very confusing.
		I picked up some books on dreams, which led to lucid dreaming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		See, that causes me to ask a very important question.
		How do you know, Preston, that these are not just either really good or in some cases really bad dreams?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's two ways.
		The first way is when you pop out and you turn and you look at your body, you know.
		You can feel it.
		It's a kind of revelatory experience, I guess you might say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do agree with that.
		If you look at your own body, if you pop out and you look at your own body, that's big.
		No question about it.
		That doesn't seem like a dream.
		I don't think I've ever seen my own body in a dream.
		I know I haven't.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It looks really weird when you do it, I have to tell you.
		Whoa.
		And, you know, and it's very convincing.
		Absolutely.
		You know, unlike...
		That's, I guess, what I'm trying to say.
		You know how when you know you're awake, you know you're awake.
		Yeah, sure.
		It's like that.
		So you're like, all right, there's no doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, you are very convincing.
		It's the tone of your voice and the enthusiasm in your voice.
		You just know what he's saying is the real thing, right?
		Midnight in the Desert, Raging in the Night.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		I hear the drums echoing tonight.
		She is only whispers of some quiet conversation.
		She's coming in 12 birds at night.
		The moonlit winds reflect the stars that guide you towards salvation.
		I stopped an old man along the way, hoping to find some old forgotten words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Imagine this for a moment.
unidentified		You pop out of your body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You pop out on the other side, and there's the screaming lady and a hundred of her clones.
unidentified		To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your Valanges and call 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Screaming Lady.
		All right, Trestin Dennett is my guest, and we're talking about a lot of things.
		We're talking about OBEs mainly, and they are amazing, absolutely amazing.
		And I'm sure that all of you can also hear it in his voice.
		This is real if you've got the guts.
		And if you do, after hearing all of the, well, call it the downside or the possible dangers that actually, you know, as a point here in the interview, well, it does say what are the dangers.
		You did say there are no dangers earlier, right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		You know, well, it depends what your definition of danger is.
		I don't think there's any danger of death or, you know, like certain things that people really fear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		Let's try and define danger.
		Danger might be hand grabbing ankle.
		Definitely danger.
		Danger might be three murderers staring at you as you pop out.
		Definite danger.
		Hand grabbing ankle.
		Definitely danger.
		Danger might be three murderers staring at you as you pop out.
		Definite danger.
		Danger might be the line breaks and you can't get back to your body, as in somebody died in their sleep.
		I mean, I can't get past that one, Preston.
		A lot of people die in their sleep, and how is it that we can know that they are not victims of a snapped cord?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, we can't.
		I don't know.
		All I can tell you is that the evidence of people who are doing this regularly are showing a lot of benefits.
		And the dangers of getting possessed or getting locked out or all of this is way overblown.
		I'm not seeing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I will give you this.
		It seems to me that most people have a positive experience.
		I just always meditated on that.
		People do die in their sleep, and no, the cord never snaps.
		Well, not for those who live.
		Excuse me.
		So mostly it's a good deal, folks.
		Give it a try.
		And so now describe, if you would, Preston, how It actually is done.
		When you get to that magic little place and you feel yourself slipping towards sleep, and instead of sleeping, you want to leave your body.
		What's the key?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, the way to slip to that magical place is you relax to the point where you start to feel one of several sensations.
		Now, this could be numbness.
		This could be lightness or even a feeling of heaviness.
		You want to get to that place where you're not, you don't even know where your arms and legs are.
		You're lying there in bed like, hmm, where are my arms and legs?
		You want to get really relaxed.
		I mean, profoundly relaxed.
		Sometimes it takes me, you know, 20 minutes.
		And if you start feeling this vibration, this is excellent news.
		And yes, it can get very loud.
		In fact, you can hear all kinds of noises, even swearing and growling, and furniture moving, engine noises, people's voices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're hearing all this in this middle period?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		This can happen.
		It doesn't happen to most people.
		Normally, they just feel a vibration and hear a noise.
		And then you pop out.
		And it's very disorienting because you have not done this before, and it's difficult to see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that's why I think a lot of people pop out and then pop back in immediately because they had the, you know what, scared out of them.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		That's what I did.
		I'm like, all right, this is going to be fun.
		I'm going to do the exercises.
		And I did the exercises.
		I started to have lucid dreams.
		One day I popped out.
		I'm like, oh, this is not good news.
		I've just died.
		What have I done?
unidentified		I got that.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people think that.
		And I looked at my body.
		I'm like, well, this is awful.
		I'm like, oh, this is not good news.
		I've just died.
		What have I done?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people think that.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And I looked at my body.
		I'm like, well, this is awful.
		I feel really bad.
		And I dived back into it and I woke up instantly and I thought, oh, my God, I just did it.
		And I was super excited.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without danger, without apparent danger in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've done this so many times that you've had these occasional, very occasional, what would you say, 1% negative?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that sounds about right.
		Maybe even a little less.
		There was one time I did come up to this giant wall and I couldn't break through it.
		Finally, I was able to break through it.
		So that was a little disconcerting, but I just broke through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're supposed to be able to go through anything, sort of.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is a barrier between the dimensions.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And you also say, or you pose a question about the deceased.
		You're suggesting that you can visit with those who have passed.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That says so much.
		I mean, if you can do that, then, my goodness, Preston, you really are in the place where the light is, in the place where you'll ultimately go.
		Otherwise, how can you see those who have passed?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Lord, I have to tell you, the first time I find, you know, I went doing this because I wanted to see my mother.
		The first time I actually went awake and did this and saw her was the most amazing reunion I have ever had with anybody.
		Now I've done this several times.
		I've known a number of people who have died, and pretty much every time I'll go and visit them.
unidentified		Wow.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		But boy, with her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you met your mom.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
		I was on my knees.
		She was so young.
		She looked so young.
		I couldn't believe it.
		I've lost most of my hair, but it all came flowing back.
		I have full hair back there.
		All my wrinkles disappear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other side?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, it's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks good right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get your hair back.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing.
		My mom looks amazing.
		I'm like, mom.
		And, you know, just the reunion was unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you recognized her as mom, even though she was younger and vibrant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		In fact, when you're out of body, sometimes there's these things called projections.
		You're making these things around you, your thoughts.
		And you're like, is this even a real person?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have to be a little bit careful.
		There is a very good point.
		Do you think, Preston, it's possible that the living human mind is creating these living human mind is creating these.
unidentified		what's the right word for it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Star Trek had a word for it, I think.
unidentified		Materializations or these worlds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I guess the question is, is it possible it's just your own human mind in some sort of mode to create a hologram?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, to a certain extent, yes, because the universe is composed of our thoughts.
		And that's what it comes down to.
		The physical world is actually a projection.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have thoughts of your mom, right, when she was young, or not?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		The proof that this isn't coming from a living mind, though, I think it's pretty extensive.
		We have a lot of people visiting these locations on the other side, and they're describing the same type of thing.
		The people are getting information that they couldn't have gotten any other way, you know, about the deceased and things like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's an interesting question.
		And proof.
		In other words, how many times has somebody gone to the other side and come back with some piece of information that amounts to proof because it could not have been known in any other way?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, happened to me.
		Couldn't believe it.
		I popped out and I'm on the other side walking around.
		And I'm like, this is the bright place.
		This is where I usually go to meet people who've died.
		It's very bright.
		And there was my friend Rex.
		I'm like, Rex, what in God's name are you doing here?
		He was alive.
		He's looking great.
		Normally, he's in pretty bad health, hunched over, has stomach problems, but by no means super severe to the point of death or anything like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying he was at that time still among the living.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, I came back to my body.
		I'm like, oh, my God, do I call him?
		I should call him.
		He was actually my father's friend.
		I don't know him that well.
		I'm like, well, you know, I don't really know him.
		Well, he called, or his family called us.
		He had had a stroke, and he was not in response.
		He was in a coma there for a while.
		He eventually did recover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		But, wow, he looked great there on the other side, I have to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How soon after you came back did he have that stroke?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was, I'd already had the stroke already.
		Yeah.
		But I did not know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he was sort of a little bit here and a little bit there, in a way.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I think that's what it was.
		Absolutely.
		Yeah.
		You know, it was the place where I always see these people have passed on, usually.
		I had a friend who died of alcoholism.
		And a very close friend, by the way.
		It was tragic.
		And I'm like, well, you know, I don't know how this is going to go.
		And I'm like, but I'm going to try.
		And about, you know, a couple of weeks after he died, I gave him a little bit of time.
		I popped out.
		It kind of happened naturally.
		And I found myself in this very dark place, one of the much lower realms.
		And he was not a happy man.
		He did not look well.
		And he told me, I'm not ready.
		He kept saying, I'm not ready.
		I could not do anything for him.
		So that was terrible.
		I came back not feeling well.
		You know, I'm like, oh, no.
		I can't tell anyone this, his family or anyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should have said something to him about the clinic on the other side.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		Well, you know, I prayed for him, is what I did.
		And I went back, you know, I sent him, I guess, what you call love energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all of these experiences you've had on the other side, Preston, was there ever a sign of what, you know, we all think of as God or a God?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Oh?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But I think the higher you go, it starts to permeate the atmosphere.
		It starts to glow and sparkle in a way that you're like, all right, this is like the source.
		You know, I went to the light.
		I'm like, all right, I want to try the light.
		I did that.
		I basked in it.
		I'm like, wow, this is lovely.
		But it was kind of like a sauna.
		It's like beautiful.
		Lots of love.
		It was great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A sauna.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		But I didn't stay there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		If you did, I doubt I'd be interviewing you right now.
		Preston Dennett is my guest.
		This, of course, is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Now The mirror cross, the window hides the light.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
		Debris found in the western Indian Ocean on Wednesday appears to be part of a Boeing 777, the same model as Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 that disappeared in 2014.
		A source close to the investigation says there is a unique element to the Boeing 777's wing flap component that Boeing observers believe liking resemblance to Michael Jackson.
		She says it certainly is very spooky.
		The image is so clear.
		Sometimes you can see these things in photos.
		It's an image of something, but you're almost willing it to be something else.
		But you look at it and it's clearly a face and it does look like Michael Jackson.
		A physicist is building a time machine to reconnect with his dead father.
		His scientific papers were published years ago, filled with equations wrought by the energies of a younger man.
		But at 69, theoretical physicist Ron Mallet still goes to work every day to build a time machine.
		Boyd Mallet died when Ron was 10.
		He vowed as a boy to sail back through time in a device to warn the older Mallet of the heart attack that would take his life on the night of his 11th wedding anniversary.
		A University of Connecticut research professor who for years taught in the classroom, Mallet immersed himself in the mysteries of time and space, crafting equations derived from the work of Albert Einstein.
		This year is a milestone for both his heroes, the 100th anniversary of Einstein's general theory of relativity that made time travel a serious topic among today's theoreticians and the 60th anniversary of his father's death.
		The number of lectures that Mallet gives has doubled because of the Einstein anniversary.
		Their current model is a series of stacked ring lasers, each glowing green ring circulating at its level around a glass tube, the whole stack theoretically twisting the space inside.
		The equation near the beginning of his story was published in 2000 in the first of Mallet's two breakthrough scientific papers.
		It begins with the Greek letter omega and describes how a neutron can be moved or dragged because the space it occupies is being twisted by laser light.
		Einstein connected space and time.
		If space can be twisted, so can time, twisted and bent back onto itself to form loops.
		No longer linear, time becomes a circular highway that can be traveled in both directions, to the past and future.
		He says, think of a cup of coffee.
		The coffee represents empty space.
		The spoon is the laser stirring that space.
		Drop a coffee bean, a neutron, into the cup, and it swirls and swirls in the coffee vortex, pulled around by a process known to scientists as frame dragging.
		Enough intense swirling, space twists and time twists and loops back onto itself.
		Will Mallet finally succeed in this lifelong dream of building a time machine?
		Only time will tell.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News.
johnny cash ▲ ● ▼		And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder.
unidentified		One of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
unidentified		And I saw, and behold, a white horse.
johnny cash ▲ ● ▼		There's a man going round taking names, and he decides who to free and who to blame.
		Everybody won't be treated all the same.
		There'll be a golden letter reaching down when the man comes around.
		The hairs on your arm will stand up at the terror in each sip and in each sup.
		Will you partake of that last offered cup or disappear into the butter scrap when the man comes around?
unidentified		The man's the world.
		To call us from outside the U.S. and Canada only.
		Use Skype with a headset mic if on a computer and call MITD55.
		That's MITD55.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's time for the talk.
		I'm going to open the lines because Trust and Dennett is so fascinating.
		I know that some of you have questions.
		So here's the talk.
		The best way to reach us is Skype.
		It is the cleanest way, actually.
		If you can get a good Skype connection, for example, on a smartphone, doesn't matter whether you've got an iPhone or whatever kind of smartphone you have, Android, doesn't matter.
		Put Skype on it, and then get yourself ready.
		And the way you get ready is to dial M-I-T-D 51.
		If you're in North America, America or Canada, M-I-T-D-51, Mid-19, the Desert 51.
		And then it'll be in your list, and you can, even though I haven't paired up with you, as it were, you can hit that any time and call.
		It's that easy.
		It really is that easy, especially on a smartphone.
		Or, of course, a computer.
		And if you're on a computer, you need a headset.
		Now, if you're outside of North America, anywhere else in the world, worldwide, it's MITD 55.
		M-I-T-D 55.
		Then one more thing.
		We've got a public number, a telephone number.
		You can call that and get on the air, but you've got to let it ring until it's answered.
		Please don't get discouraged.
		We're not screening calls.
		We'll just take them as we get them, but we won't put you on hold.
		So the public number you can call is Area Code 952-225-5278.
		Let me give that again.
		The public number is AreaCode 952-225-5278.
		All that said, Preston, are you there?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you can imagine a lot of people have questions about this kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're going to go to some of them if it's okay with you.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, bring them on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, trust me, they'll come.
		Ann, hello there on Skype.
		You're on the air.
		Ann?
unidentified		Oh, Ann, this is Dino.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dino, it says Ann there, A-N-N-E.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What am I supposed to do?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		It must be my wife's name.
unidentified		How you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Hey, I'm calling from the Facebook group talking Midnight in the Desert with Arbel.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, interesting guests you got going here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's an interesting topic, and it's real.
		I've interviewed so many people about this, and they sort of say the same thing.
		Now, Preston gave me more of the, you know, the possible negative side than others have.
		Other than that, though, you know, the process, how it's done, all that seems the same.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, I've tried many years to get to that point, still can't get there.
unidentified		I don't know if he has any, like, you know, any help for us who can't get to that point, to that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Because I've been trying.
		I've been trying.
		Can't get there, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, you know, there are different ways to approach it.
		You can approach this during the day.
		There is a simple exercise you can do that has a really powerful effect.
		And that's to ask yourself if you are out of body right now.
		And I know how it sounds because you know you're not.
		But if you do this, you know, as much as you possibly can, but at least a couple of times a day, preferably, you know, every hour, you will do this at night.
		And you will have the most profound experience because suddenly you're going to ask yourself this question and you're going to find out that you are, in fact, out of body.
		But you have to do what's called reality testing.
		And to do reality testing, well, there's various ways to find out if you're out of body or not.
		You can try throwing something.
		If it levitates, you're out of body.
		You can try pushing your finger through your desk or a wall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That could be painful if you fail.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Just lightly press and it'll be a sound and you'll be at work there typing or whatever you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, for example, right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ow.
unidentified		Yeah, my finger ain't going through at all.
		No, but I'll.
		No, I want you to do this once.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Whenever you think of it, a couple times a day.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And you'll do this at night, and your finger is going to go through that desk and you're going to be like, oh, my God, I'm out of body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would be.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Already out of body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so during the day, enlighten me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get the between consciousness and sleep part, but during the day, how do you do this?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is something you want to do all day long.
		You know, when you wake up, you know, during breakfast, at work, when you come home, ask yourself, am I dreaming right now?
		Could this possibly be a dream?
		Could I be out of body?
		And you look around.
		If you see any anomalies, this is what's called a cue.
		And pretty much every dream will have one.
		Something that's not quite matching up with reality as you know it.
		This is how you get it.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I will try this out.
		I hope I don't hurt my finger.
		But love the show, Art.
		Love the show.
		Love that you're back.
		And Dino, giving you a shout out there.
		Love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love being here.
		Thank you very much.
		And we've got an international caller, I believe, on the line.
		Hello.
		Hello there.
		Are you there?
		Going once.
		Come on.
		I know you're there.
		Brendan.
		Brandon.
		Is that right?
		Brandon, are you there?
		No, I guess Brandon's not going to say anything.
		Okay, no problem.
		We can move on.
		And we've got a million calls here, so not sure where to go.
		Let's go to the phones and say, hello there.
		You are on midnight.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes.
		Yeah, hi.
		This is Gary out in Phoenix and some Roswells over there for you.
		Yeah, this is one of my favorite subjects.
		I was back, and I've had like four out-of-body experiences.
		The first one was back in 1996 or 97.
		And I was having that sleep paralysis thing with the vibration, and I was always be terrified.
		It happened periodically throughout my life.
		And then I actually heard your program, and I forget who you had on there, but he was saying about directing your energy away from your body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, and so I did it, and it wasn't very successful, but I ended up right by the doorknob.
		It was like I was trying to go out the front door, and I was hovering right above the doorknob.
		And then another time I got freaked out.
		I got out of my body, and I went down to the ground.
		And so I was looking up, and I could see my hand off the edge of my bed, and it freaked me out.
		I just popped back in my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, see, anything that freaks you out, I guess, brings you back, according to Preston.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Yeah.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's absolutely what happens.
		Yeah, there's all different kinds of ways of getting out of your body.
		The best way is to do visualizations of some kind.
		And usually something involving movement, like being on a swing set, maybe, or the bow of a boat going up and down, or pretending that you're running down a pathway.
		There's various things like this, spinning in a circle.
		All of these will spin you right out of your body.
		And it's a very easy way to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, those are actually pretty good tips.
		I appreciate it.
		Thank you very much.
		And here is Triana, I think.
		You never know whose name is on the Skype.
		It could be somebody else.
		But it says Triana.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Trina in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trina, okay.
		You're really loud, Trina.
		So just back away a little bit.
unidentified		Okay, is that better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is so much better, yes.
unidentified		That's great.
unidentified		Roswells.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I just wanted to call in and make a comment.
		I got a little bit spooked a few minutes ago.
		Your guest was talking about something reaching out and grabbing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew it, C. I knew that.
unidentified		I'm beginning to wonder if your guest was there in my experience because I experienced that exact same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Preston, did you grab her ankle?
unidentified		The funny thing about it is I was in a room where there were lots of like little baby gray hands.
		They covered the room.
		The entire room was covered with these little hands.
		But one huge gray hand came out from the middle and grabbed my leg.
		But I was paralyzed.
		Yeah, for sure.
		So I couldn't get away from it.
		And it was the scariest thing I have ever experienced in my life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did it snap you back to your body?
unidentified		It did.
		It did.
		I did wake up, but I could still feel the hand on my leg.
		Well, that was the scariest part about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, something like that could scare you so much that you would never, ever try it again.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
		Yeah, that's true.
		But if you read the books about it, you'll see that there's some amazing things that this can do for you, and there are ways to protect yourself.
		You can do white light meditations, and as you get good at this, this sort of thing is not a problem at all.
		They automatically pop out into very high realms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gray hands, giant gray hands, they're a problem for me.
		And obviously for Deanna.
		Diana, are you going to try it again, honey?
		Or are you finished?
unidentified		No, no, no.
		Well, see, actually, I didn't try it the first time.
		It just happened to me.
		I just went to that weird place and it was like, I don't know, it wasn't a dream.
		It was that state that you talk about where you're in between being asleep and being awake.
		I wasn't trying to do it.
		It just happened.
		But I would certainly never try it now that that has happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So even after all the encouraging things, the very encouraging things that Preston has said about this, it's a big no.
unidentified		As of right now, it is a big no.
		If I were to have a positive experience without trying it, then I may go forward with trying it more often in the future.
		But after this, I would never just go for it and try it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I so get it.
unidentified		But I would love to have the experiences that some of these other people have had, where you go and you see friends and family and loved ones.
		But after this, I just don't know if I could go there.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I so get it, Trianda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very, very much.
unidentified		Thank you so much for taking my call, Arl.
unidentified		We're really glad that you're back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do it again.
		Call again.
		Thank you.
		So, Preston, there you go.
		She got scared so profoundly.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the thing is, this is something that I would encourage everyone to do because sooner or later we are going to die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's like practice.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And you can grow spiritually leaps and bounds by doing this kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not to mention the clinic.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And here's another thing that we haven't even talked about.
		This wakens up your psychic abilities so profoundly that, I mean, I was coming home with dreams that were coming true on a pretty much daily basis, and it translated into waking clairvoyance.
		And I've had so many, you know, really profound psychic experiences as a result of doing this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		I mean, those are encouraging words.
		Here's somebody called Christmas 21.
		Are you there?
		Hi there, Art.
		You know, I get to see your picture.
unidentified		Yeah, it's a little offensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry about that.
		Yeah, it's two fingers up in the air.
		Yeah, both trying to send me a message there.
		Almost didn't answer you because of that.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Yeah, that's an old picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might want to modify that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, not a lot of people would answer that, but, you know, I...
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, I've had something happen.
		It was when I was younger.
		I actually fell off a cliff and landed on my back, and I couldn't stand up.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't move.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		It was like paralyzed.
unidentified		Wow.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		And it seemed like an out-of-body kind of experience.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		It was really surreal.
unidentified		Things were quite odd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think you were conscious the whole time or not?
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was just really bizarre.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how to explain.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		I'd never felt anything like that in my life before, though.
unidentified		And I couldn't move, and then all of a sudden after that, I got up and I could walk again.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		I thought I was paralyzed, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far did you fall?
unidentified		About 15 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Yeah, you should have been out cold, for sure.
		And maybe you were.
		Who knows?
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I landed right on a rock on my spine, baby.
unidentified		Aye, aye, aye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so maybe you went to the clinic.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		I didn't go anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know, I know.
		But I mean, you were okay.
		You said you got up and could walk.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know what happened how that happened.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		I thought I was paralyzed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually, you fall 15 feet onto a rock.
		No walkie.
		No walkie.
		You don't walk right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what's interesting about that is that's getting the wind knocked out of you to the point where it's actually knocking you right out of your body partially.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And this is actually pretty commonly reported in falls.
unidentified		Really?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		People will find themselves standing next to their body for a brief second and then slip back in or feel kind of dissociated.
		And they might see glows or just have difficulty, just like you're describing, actually.
		Exactly what's different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you see any kind of light or darkness or anything?
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Things seemed kind of lighter.
unidentified		It was a long time ago, but yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still amazing.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I just can't even really describe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, close enough, 15 feet onto a rock.
		My God.
		Change the picture.
unidentified		Well, I'm lucky.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can walk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Like I said, change the picture.
		Yes, I will.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I'll call you again soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please do.
unidentified		We'll have a different one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, something nice.
		Yes, that'd be nice.
		Most people, believe me, would not have answered that in a million years.
		Let's go to the phone.
		So many people.
		Spokane, Washington, you're on the air.
		Good evening.
		Preston is listening.
unidentified		How you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		Good, on the air.
		Hey, I was just going to say I've had several experiences out of body, and I've been doing it quite a few times.
		And then all of a sudden, I hit this wall, literally, and was unable to do it again.
		It always seemed like was my escape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean, okay, we don't have a great connection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying you hit a wall, literally.
unidentified		Literally.
		There was this house.
		I'd always go to this house when there was trouble, when I was protecting myself, to access my way back into my body.
		And I would always end up calling through this or that way, and I would open door and go through while I opened the door, and it just bricked up, and I have never been able to do it again since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you know, Preston says that you can go through walls, right?
unidentified		Yeah, well, this is the, I was literally like bang done, bounced back, and never been able to do it again.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're done with it, huh?
unidentified		I've tried.
unidentified		I can do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, maybe it's well that you can't, because you can't go through walls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any advice on going through walls, Preston?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I know what he's saying.
		You know, I've actually reached this at a point, you know, I was unable to do it for a year.
		I'm like, well, is this ability gone from me?
		Because there's a couple of cases out there where people did it for a while, and then, boom, they couldn't do it.
		And they had like one last visitation with a spirit who said, you know, you're done because you've learned all you need to learn or you're not at that level or various messages like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he needs to try the wall again.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that if you continue to do various exercises, read the literature, try the different ways of doing it, it will come back to you.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, are you still there?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good, okay.
		So can you try the wall again and let us know?
		Walk, don't run.
		That would be the only advice I could give.
		Walk, don't run.
		It's going to hurt.
		But on the other hand, maybe that would show your determination.
		You just go way back and take a big run at the wall.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've done it and I bounced right off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I did.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, I didn't hurt myself, but I sure felt it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, if this was a travel agency, you'd be so broke.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And there was another time I was out on my balcony and I'm standing on the rail.
		I'm thinking, you know, I wonder if I'm actually out of body.
		I'm like, God, you know, if I fall, this could be terrible.
		I'm like, no, I'm actually out of body.
		I know I must be because I wouldn't be standing on the rail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You jumped.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And so I jumped and I fell all the way down three stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And lived to be on a radio program and tell about it, right?
		All right, President.
		Ah, this is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Martell.
unidentified		Be careful somewhere.
		Seven motherfuckers be trying it hard to recreate what they're yet to be creative.
		Watching her life, you must have lost my stopping.
		Never coming near what you wanted to say, only to realize.
		I used to be a roller, don't you know if a cause is right?
		I need to find an answer on the road.
		I used to be a heartbeat for someone.
		But the times that came before my work ever done freedom.
		Midnight Matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness like Art Bell.
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALLART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I really wish that was true.
		But I knew how.
		I know how to move in the darkness.
		I know how to do talk radio in the darkness.
		But when it comes to astral travel or out-of-body experiences, not so much.
		I've had one that just was wonderful and scared me really seriously on the other side, and none since.
		And I think it's the fear.
		I do believe that it's the fear.
		And Preston may have helped you tonight, but on the other hand, he may not have.
		Some scary stuff, actually.
		Preston, you're back, and I think somebody's with you on the international line named Luke.
		Luke, are you there?
unidentified		That's right.
		I am, actually, yeah.
		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you're there, Luke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		I'm from Australia.
unidentified		I'm actually about 100 Ks away from Melbourne in Geelong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Down under?
unidentified		I've been listening to you for many years now, and this is actually the first time I've been able to listen to you live, and it's just incredible.
		I thought, what the heck?
		I'll try and see if I can call up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's live.
		That's right.
		It's live worldwide.
		And it's just that Australia, Japan, the Southeast Asian areas are all sort of at a good time for the show.
		And a lot of people, I think, don't realize it is live, but it is right now.
unidentified		That's fantastic.
		Would I be able to shout out my father?
		He's turning 70 today.
		So I'm going to take him out a little bit later tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's really a big birthday.
		I know.
		I just had one.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I wanted to call up.
		I don't know that I have a similar sort of experience as the other listeners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you've got a question about it.
unidentified		Oh, it was sort of.
		I had an experience that was more like going into myself.
		I was sort of lying down one night.
		I was quite relaxed.
		I had a hard day at work.
		And I just found myself sort of relaxing more so and sort of found myself in this dark space.
		It was almost like I changed some sort of consciousness and I actually saw myself sort of out of body as a young child.
		And I was working through a lot of things at the time.
		I had a lot of things that happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you, wait a minute, let me get it straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You exited your body and you were your young self.
unidentified		Yeah, it was just so bizarre.
		It was like I was young again.
		I was seeing myself as a 10-year-old.
		I'm 26 now.
		This probably happened maybe eight or nine months ago, but it was so bizarre.
		I actually felt young again.
		I sort of felt my mind slow down to how it had when I was that age.
		I was thinking about things that I hadn't thought about for many, many years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		It was just insane.
unidentified		That became pretty wild.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty wild.
		I mean, to actually feel young and to understand that feeling is pretty amazing.
		Preston?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about, Luke.
		What's really interesting is when you go out of body, time collapses to a certain extent.
		In fact, the farther you go, you can effectively travel in time.
		And sometimes when you pop out of body, you go to the past.
		You can go to your childhood or connect with that or even the future for that matter.
		So, yeah, I get what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it's so cool.
		I mean, just to feel that young again, to remember what it felt like.
		That'd be awesome.
unidentified		Yeah, it was fantastic.
		I mean, I suppose that was something I've been sort of processing, I guess, a little bit as well.
		And maybe some consciously it came on.
		I'm not really sure.
		It was just really bizarre.
		I've had a few other times when I've sort of felt myself going back into that sort of place, but the age difference wasn't there.
		But it always seems like I'm going in on myself, not traveling out elsewhere.
		I unfortunately didn't catch the first half of the program, but it sort of sounded like you were talking a lot about almost like astral travel.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Trust me on this.
		It's worth joining, becoming a time traveler, and downloading it.
		It's really a fascinating program all the way around.
		And what you just said is fascinating, too.
		And especially calling all the way from Australia.
		Thank you so much.
unidentified		No worries.
unidentified		Thank you so much, Ott.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's really neat.
		I mean, can you remember what you felt like at 10?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, not as well as I would like, but you can connect with it through the out-of-body thing for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, to have that threshold again would be awesome.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know what's amazing?
		Because on the other side, you can travel in an instant.
		There's no such thing as rate or distance, really.
		So if you take that equation that we have, rate times time equals distance, it collapses time.
		So this is kind of why we have precognition when we come back from these experiences.
		Or you can travel to the past and see the sinking of the Titanic or what have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Preston, I had one precognitive experience, but I don't think it had anything to do with astral travel or being out of my body.
		On the other hand, what do I know?
		Maybe it did.
		But I remember being awake, moving from place to place when I had this experience.
		So no, I think I was awake.
		I don't think I was astrally traveling.
		But your point is good.
		Test it, is what you say, right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, what I'm saying is if you do astral travel, be prepared to have a lot of psychic experiences because it activates, I guess you would call them your chakras.
		You know, and you'll feel it.
		I mean, you will physically feel this stuff when you have, you know, premonition, for example.
		I mean, I had a really powerful one.
		I had this vision.
		I was going to the ATM to get some money.
		And I had this vision that there was this gangster-looking guy there, dressed in leather, whipping his hair around.
		I'm like, God, you know, that's weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And got, you know, drive up, you know, it's still a mile away, got there, and there he was.
		Got chills down my spine just like I saw.
		I'm like, I'm not going near that thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so in other words, it was a precognitive warning.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		I've had a number of those.
		And you start to learn stuff about people that, you know, you can, to a certain extent, read people a lot better than you normally could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wallaceburg, it's midnight.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
		Wherever Wallaceburg is on the phone.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		Hello, Art.
		How are you doing?
		It's an honor to be part of your show.
		I have a question for your guest, sir.
		I guess I've lucid dreams lately, but this one time, I'm sorry, a little nervous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, relax.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just take a deep breath.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just talking.
unidentified		Sure, sure.
		This one time I awoke and I was laying in bed and I saw the back of my body leaving the bedroom or getting out of bed and walking towards the bedroom door.
		Wow.
		And I thought it was so odd, obviously, to see myself walking away.
		So it's like a reverse sort of body or something.
		So I was wondering if he has ever experienced anything like that or what it would mean, if it has any meaning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is so odd, is it?
		Preston, he sees himself walking away.
		How could that be?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, that has happened to me.
		Not quite in exactly that way, but that's called bilocation.
		And what's happening is you're conscious in either your body or your astral body.
		And if you're good at it, you can do both.
		There was one time where I was out there flying, I don't know where in God's name I was, but far away.
		And at the same time, I started to become aware of my bedroom.
		And mind you, you know, I'm lying there with my eyes closed.
		But I'm like, oh, you know, I think I'm awake.
		So I opened one eye and I'm like, yep, I'm awake.
		At the same time, I'm out there astral traveling.
		So to a certain extent, this is called bilocation.
		People are able to do it to the extent, you know, that they can sit down and be physically in another place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you could, this caller could probably switch positions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If he was really good at it, he could jump to the astral body that was leaving and be in that one.
unidentified		Right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		That's what I would recommend.
		Concentrate on that one and see if you can transfer your awareness to it.
		You should be able to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to give it a try?
unidentified		Well, it just happened.
		You know, I never meant for it to happen or anything.
		And this is probably a couple years ago now.
		So I'm sure if it ever happens again, I would perhaps try that.
		But yeah.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good luck with it.
		And I hope it works.
		This is a lot to take in.
		It really is.
		Let's go to Nick on Skype.
		Hi, Nick.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine.
unidentified		Hey, Art, longtime listener.
		I'm glad you're back.
		Real quick, I just had a question for Mr. Preston.
		Has he ever confused or, I don't know how to put it another way, out-of-body experiences with lucid dreaming?
		Because I know that as a kid, I used to practice lucid dreaming a lot, went on message boards reading about lucid dreaming, and I feel like a lot of what he's saying reminds me of lucid dreaming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That makes sense, President?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, most people who look into this agree that they're connected, there's no doubt.
		I think personally that a lucid dream is when you know you're projecting the reality around you.
		Problem is, you can be out of body in one of the higher dimensions and be doing this.
		So the definitions blur.
		It's hard to say the line is between the two, but you can project out of a lucid dream into the physical world.
unidentified		I have felt the whole out-of-body experience thing.
		one time I was asleep on a couch and I was in a strange place, and all of a sudden I was half awake, half asleep, and I felt like there was someone sitting on my chest.
		A scary voice kind of came into my head, and I sort of saw myself in the room.
		But that only happened one time.
		But I've had lucid dreamings happen.
		I've had lucid dreams a lot more than that.
		And I felt like there was a distinct difference between those two things.
		You don't think there's a distinct difference between the two?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's sort of gradations, I would say.
		It's very hard to divide them apart because some people feel that the lucid dream is superior to the normal out-of-body experience.
		I think they're separate.
		There are certain levels to dreaming.
		In the very beginning, you have dreams, which are just the things you did throughout the day, the movies you saw.
		Then you move up to a psychological level of dreaming where you're dealing with your fears and desires.
		And then you bring in lucid dreaming, and you can deal with those in a conscious way.
		But at some point, you don't dream like a normal person.
		You're awake all night and never actually fall asleep.
		And you understand the difference between a mental projection in front of you, depending on where you are.
		I mean, if you're on the physical world or on the other side where you're manipulating things or you're in a consensus reality, like, you know, the heavenly realms, where everyone agrees this is, you know, the way it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to describe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, it is.
		All of this is hard for words.
		Caller, thank you.
unidentified		Yeah, no problem.
		And I'd just like to give a quick shout out to Richard Hoagland.
		Looking forward to his show after this and really enjoying it.
		And just remember to think of the suicide coming up at midnight.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So sometimes I get into this state, Preston, where I think that I have not slept all night.
		And frankly, I haven't slept all night.
		But I have been in that little tiny gray area we were talking about, in and out of it, in and out of it, so much that I lose track of reality.
		I lose track of reality.
		That's the only way to put it.
		And I might have a dream that appears to be, or seems to be, so real and so quick, and I'm just like, in and out of this, in and out of this, if I can't sleep.
		Most of our dreams occur, I'm told, in that area between sleep and wakefulness.
		Is that true?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		The REM state.
		Absolutely.
		But like I said, we all go out about it every night.
		And the truth is we're not unconscious.
		We're conscious on the other side.
		We're talking to our relatives.
		We're having experiences.
		We're planning out our days.
		And then we catch snippets of this as we go down in a gradation to the physical world.
		There's been times when I've been so far up there that I had to stop at each level and write this down in a dream diary, take that one down a level, write that down, and so on until I'm finally like, am I really awake now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		So I guess it's pretty common stuff.
		Boy, we have got to take a break, so we're going to do that.
		With Preston Dennett as a guest, we indeed are raging through the night from the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		It just keeps getting better and better.
unidentified		My father is weak.
		I'm on the run, no time to speak.
		I've got to run, fight like the wind.
		To be free.
		It's not radio, but it is what's next to cast your ray of light into the darkness.
		Please call 1-952.
		Call ART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we definitely are what's next.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		My guest is Preston Jennett, and we're talking about OBEs.
		And I get messages on the computer.
		And so here is one for you, Preston.
		This comes from Joe.
		And he says, can OBEs allow you to travel to different points in time as well?
		Time.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's what the one caller said, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was 10.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		It's really startling when it first happens.
		You're like, what's going on?
		But yeah, you can travel to the past or the future.
		I think the future is a little bit harder because you get, you know, probable realities and you're not sure w i if these things are going to happen or not.
		But uh you can try try to travel to the past.
		I tried to see the Titanic, um, but I was not successful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I figured that's what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can travel to um important times in history.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		People have been successful at doing this.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Sort of a psychic, you know, investigation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sort of time travel, actually.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right, absolutely.
		We have the ability to do this.
		Time is not what we think it is.
		It's a perception.
		On the physical plane, at least, it's a fault of perception.
		The truth is, time is simultaneous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all the way across the country.
		Florida.
		Delane, Florida, I think.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Dollar.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I have you to thank for all my out-of-body experiences I've had over the years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You heard some of my old shows on them?
unidentified		Oh, your first show I listened to was the night Chuck Harter.
		You were talking about Chuck Harter was missing.
		I don't know if you were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, that was a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I remember.
unidentified		A long time ago.
		But my father had passed away, and my mother was an invalid.
		And my sister lived with her, and she used to go to work really early in the morning.
		I used to get up and drive over to my mother's, and what I found out was it was interrupted sleep was causing it.
		But you had Albert Taylor on one night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And he was describing it.
		And I had had the vibration thing a couple of times.
		And you feel like you're going to die.
		I mean, it's a frightening thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm laughing, but it is frightening.
unidentified		Yeah, but what I was wanting to say to you is when you get to that point, that's as scary as it gets.
		Once you just are there, you just get out of bed real quick, roll out, and you'll be standing there, and it's really cool.
		But there's some things that I've noticed.
		I've had a lot of them.
		And there's certain things that I've read a lot of different books on it, too, because of it.
		And I've made some little bullet points.
		I've seen these guys.
		They look like monks with the hoods, you know, like grim reapers without the sickle.
		I went to talk to one of them, and he just turned into like a stone pillar.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that's not necessarily encouraging.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not an ankle grab, but that's, you know.
unidentified		No, but I've had the grabbing and stuff.
		Yeah, I've had that laying in bed, and I've had, I've had a lot of these things, but there's certain things, like I've never seen the silver cord, really.
		One time I thought maybe, but for the most part, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a good question, Preston.
		Do people see that cord?
		Do they actually see it?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		No, I never did.
		I looked for it.
		Finally, I'm like, you know what?
unidentified		I'm going to see it.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And I finally did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say, otherwise, how do you know it's there?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's there because enough people report it.
		And if you look hard enough, you can find it.
		For some people, it's a tiny little filament.
		For others, it's a big white hose.
		Some people never see it at all.
		Some people see it symbolically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd want to see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'd actually want to test its tensile strength.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You can do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've never seen a color you have finally seen it or what?
unidentified		Not really.
		I had an obstruction in my vision one time, but when they talk about commanding stuff, I think it was William Buhlman had in his book about clarity now.
		Oh, it's unbelievable.
		That really you can see good.
		The other thing is sometimes when you're laying there before, when you've got the vibration thing going on, that third eye bit, that's pretty neat because all of a sudden you can see, but your eyes are closed.
		But yeah, there's a it's just quite an experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right away, seeing with your eyes closed, that would be a big tip-off right there.
unidentified		Yeah, well, how I always have done it, I've laid in bed and just focused on my breathing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And as you're breathing, I just make like it's coming up my feet, up my legs, and then out.
		And while I'm relaxing, and then when you think you're relaxed, you can kind of like relax one more time.
		You know, you just get more limp.
		A lot of times I'll focus on a little shape, a triangle or a square or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		But then the other thing that helps also for me is thinking about where you, I think it was Albert Taylor who might have said it, but thinking about where you are in your body.
		And it's like, you know, two inches behind your eyes or whatever, you know.
		And when you think about that, you get to where you don't feel your arms and legs anymore.
		You're just so relaxed.
		But that's usually when you hear the roaring sound or the people talking to you or what I mean.
		It's very strange.
		But once anymore, I haven't had one in quite a while, but I noticed when I was doing it, I got to where I could have them pretty much every night if I wanted to.
		But it drains you something terrible.
		I mean, if you do it back-to-back a couple of nights, oh, you feel like you've been hit by a truck.
		And then what happens is you get so tired, you just, when you go to sleep, you just won't have one.
		But what did it for me was the interrupted sleep, and I didn't know what it was.
		And like I say, going over to my mother's in the mornings there and then laying back down to get another hour or two of sleep.
		And when I first had it, I didn't know whether to go to like the hospital or what because that vibration feeling like, and you just feel like you're going to die, you know, it's very unsettling.
		But like I say, I had that several times and I had no idea what it was.
		But then I heard Albert on your show talking about it and he was saying about, oh, you have to just go with it.
		And it's scary to do.
		But the first time I did it, it's easy to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's easy to say, but it's not So easy to actually do if you're afraid.
unidentified		Well, no, I was afraid, and that was the thing that Albert was saying, oh, you just got to go with it.
unidentified		And I just got to the point where I wasn't enjoying having the vibration thing all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
unidentified		And then, like I say, as soon as you roll out, that's gone.
		That's the scariest part.
		Once you get to that point, that's as bad.
		From there on, it's just really cool.
		I've stood on the moon, Art, and looked at the Earth and picked up a handful of it was like beach sand.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I did the same thing.
		Did the same darn thing.
		Really?
		Yeah, I couldn't believe it.
		To hear you say that.
		It's so cool because that's exactly what I did.
unidentified		The first night that I, well, the first time I had, I fell out of my body and I was laying on the floor looking up at my legs on the bed and it was like, and then boom, I was back.
		But then the next night, I was able to completely just roll out.
		And I got to the foot of the bed, and I was standing there.
		I could see my wife and myself sleeping.
		And I was a little hesitant to leave the room.
		And I did, I don't know, like triple somersaults and stuff right there.
		It was just amazing.
		And then I was back.
		And after that, I got brave and I thought, okay, I'm going to go somewhere.
		And I dove through the front windows in the bedroom, which I thought was going to take me out into like my front yard.
		And I ended up in the tunnel with the light at the end.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		And that was quite a ride.
		And I got to the end of where the light was, and I stopped.
		And I thought, this isn't where I want to go right now.
		I was right back up the tunnel and back to my body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was about to ask you if you considered the John Lear thing at that point, but apparently not.
unidentified		Yeah, no, like I say, it was...
unidentified		It's a lot, when you have it happen to you, it's just a lot of information on time because it's...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got to be really quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're coming up on break.
unidentified		I think it was Albert Taylor that mentioned about your higher self.
		Right.
		And I've requested that one time, well, actually more than once, but I've never, it just, it's like an inverted tornado over top of you.
		It's just swirling.
		And it's the most intense euphoria you've ever could imagine.
		And it just gets, it gets so intense, it just bangs you right back in your body.
		I've never gone beyond that.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is the safety return.
		And this is where we have to safely depart.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is midnight.
unidentified		When I think back on my grandmother, it's a wonder I can think of this.
		Education hasn't hurt enough Education hasn't hurt enough I can read the writing on the wall.
		Hold a throw on the guilty...
		Music For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Vitamin B3, an essential part of our diet.
		Its deficiency in humans can lead to nausea, anemia, and tiredness.
		Fortunately, it can be gobbled up from sources such as salmon, avocados, and nuts.
		But now scientists are eager to find out if there's another unexpected source, space.
		A team of researchers thinks that vitamin B3 could have been made on icy dust grains in the depths of space.
		It would, in this scenario, have been delivered to Earth on structures of comets and asteroids.
		Past research has shown that vitamin B3 is present on carbon-rich meteorites in ratios between 30 and 60 parts per billion.
		The team decided to recreate the formation of vitamin B3 in space-like conditions.
		They used a mixture of gases, including pyridine, which can be found in space in carbon dioxide ice.
		Pyridine is one of the building blocks of vitamin B3.
		So the team was interested to see if it could manifest itself as vitamin B3 in these space-like conditions.
		The results from the experiments were promising.
		The researchers tested their theory by cooling an aluminum plate to negative 423 degrees Fahrenheit in a vacuum to replicate the freezing temperatures of space.
		The plate was then bombarded with protons to mimic space radiation that would give the gas mixture the energy to create reactions.
		When the sediment formed on the plate, they found a wide range of complex molecules, including B3.
		This is an exciting result, although it's far from proving that vitamin B3 on Earth originated from space.
		The next stage for these researchers will be to wait for someone to find some B3 out in space.
		A landmark discovery was announced by NASA this month, the possibility of a second Earth in Kepler-452b.
		Found by NASA's Kepler Space Telescope, this planet orbits a star much like our Sun at a distance roughly similar to the Earth.
		Could there be life on Earth 2.0 or even beyond?
		The director for SETI, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, Seth Szostak, believes there could be.
		Szostak says in his video further, we might be able to learn more.
		We might even get a message.
		If we get a message, who knows what it might be?
		He continues by saying, on the other hand, let's assume that in the conservative case, if you will, that you don't get a message, you can't pick it up or you can't decode it.
		You'll never know what it means.
		This is Dark Matter News.
		The city of Berkeley, California passed a law that goes into effect next month requiring cell phone stores to inform customers about safety recommendations.
		The move reopened a decades-old debate about whether mobile phones cause brain tumors.
		The ordinance called the Right to Know Law will start to require retailers to give customers a handout or display a sign in stores telling them about federal regulations on the amount of radiation that cell phones can emit and the instructions on safe phone use.
		The information will also go beyond the current regulations by stating that children and anyone carrying their phone in a pocket or bra could be at increased risk of radiation exposure.
		What the law does not require is that consumers be provided information about the specific health risks of being exposed To radiation.
		Researchers say that it is highly probable that long-term cell phone use can cause brain tumors.
		In 2011, the World Health Organization classified the kind of low-energy radiation that cell phones emit as possibly carcinogenic because of a link between cell phone use and a type of malignant brain tumor called glioma and a benign brain tumor called acoustic neuroma.
		Both types of brain tumors are rare.
		About 5 in 10,000 adults are diagnosed with glioma in the United States every year, whereas about 10 in a million people develop acoustic neuromas every year.
		And you know, Art Bell, he's been saying don't call the show on your cell phone for years, so maybe he's some kind of prophet.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark
		Matter News.
		Want to take a ride?
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket when you call 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my own news guy took a shot at me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
unidentified		Something about cell phones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, Preston Dennett is my guest.
		We're discussing OBEs and oh, boy are we ever.
		And he's done such a fabulous job that I really wanted to say, hey, Preston, what would you like to promote?
		Your website?
		Do you have books?
		It's a good opportunity to tell people how to get, I don't know, hints on how to do OBEs.
		I'm sure you have lots of written stuff.
		You must.
		You know so much about it.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do actually have a book out.
		It's called Out of Body Exploring, a Beginner's Approach.
		You can learn more about it on my website.
		If you just Google my name, Preston Dennett, it'll take you right to my website, the actual website address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it sounds like Dennett, but it's not.
		It's Dennett.
		D-E-N-N-I-T-T.
		Is that right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		E-T-T.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		E-T-T-T.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't have it right.
unidentified		E-T-T.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
unidentified		D-E-N-N-E-T-T.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right, I got all my books there, excerpts, and you can contact me through my website if you have any questions or stories you'd like to share.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I'm always interested in hearing from people about this subject and UFOs as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever give people personal help?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever give people personal help?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Oh, yeah.
		I counsel people through doing this.
		This is such a transformational experience, Art, that I think it's really important that people know about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, too.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And, oh, my God, I mean, it just completely will transform your life.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I really urge people to at least give it a try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Good enough.
		Donald, your turn.
		Hi, Art Roswells.
		Thank you.
unidentified		To both of you, actually.
unidentified		I was going to ask your guest how he feels about deja vu in relation to obese.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, deja vu is a very interesting thing because I used to get it a lot, and it started to increase really profoundly when I was doing out-of-body travels.
		And what I found was I would have deja vu, and suddenly I would remember having this experience before to the point where I could actually predict it.
		I could predict the person's conversation, what was going to be on the radio, who was coming in at work, and things like this.
		And I realized that these were memories of the travels I had done the previous day.
		So scarcely a day went by where I wasn't having some sort of deja vu.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
		Do you think it's possible to transfer your soul, possibly, using OBEs?
		Wow.
		To transfer your soul into another vessel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		This is talked about all the time.
		And it's also one of the concerns, by the way, Preston, what this caller brought up, and that is, let me take it from here, Donald, that while you're out of your body, your body becomes occupied by some sort of entity that may or may not be friendly.
		Just leave it there.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, it hasn't been my experience that that's true.
		The real case is when you're doing this work, you almost always have a guide with you, even if you don't perceive them.
		I felt like I was on my own, and I really still feel like that most of the time, because if I have a guide, they rarely show themselves.
		They have, but it's my understanding that they are there.
		And I have not found that to be a problem, even though I've done this many, many times.
		And I can't find any good evidence that this has ever really occurred.
		And as far as inhabiting someone else, well, to a certain extent, you can perceive other people's thoughts.
		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's not the same as inhabiting another person.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		No.
		You can't.
		I mean, to kick them out of their own body or another person's body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you mentioned you can't move things, that your hand just goes right through it, or that you can walk through walls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So presumably, you could walk into a person.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, you can walk.
		Yeah, I've had people walk through me standing in front of them, and it's very disconcerting.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Disconcerting.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You can't stick inside them.
		You can't.
		I haven't tried it.
		But it's not something I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Give it a shot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us know how it comes out for you.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm willing to give it a try, but it's not something I don't want to take someone over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I started messing with you.
		Yeah, that was the obvious question.
		Is it possible To essentially take someone over.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You can influence people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		You can, you know, because all our thoughts are not necessarily our own.
		We're picking up on, you know, this sort of telepathy, even if we don't know it.
		To a certain extent, some of our thoughts are influences from our spirit guides.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever influenced somebody?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in what way?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		No.
		You know, I have tried.
		I'm like, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here.
		I've talked to people on the other side, my brothers and sisters who are alive, and tried to get them to remember what they were doing, and they could not.
		It's very much about memory, this whole actual travel thing.
		It's about awareness.
		It's about intent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, focus, these sorts of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to Edmonton, Alberta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, sir.
		Art Bell.
		Hi.
		Hello here.
		It's wonderful to hear you.
		Thanks.
		And welcome back from everybody.
		I'm sure you're sorely missed.
		And I'm actually shocked to be on the air right now, but I got to talk about this.
		Now, it was years ago when I was listening to your show, and that's the reason I have a name for what happened to me.
		I had an OBE, I guess what you're talking about.
		I was in college, and I was going through a pretty tough time.
		I really wasn't ready for the experience, and I had, I guess what you say is a peak experience, where I was doing a drawing, and it was art school.
		I was doing a drawing in the studio.
		It was late at night, and I guess I kind of felt like I had a pillar of light coming from the heaven.
		Felt like I was really connected to everything.
		But then I had an anxiety attack, I guess.
		So I went home that night, and my dad picked me up from the hospital.
		And mind you, no drugs here.
		I'm not a drug user.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but drugs is a very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll ask that.
unidentified		Yeah, nothing like that.
		Even back in my college days, I was a pretty stray guy.
		Now, what happened is I went to sleep and had the sleep paralysis.
		And shortly thereafter, I saw the roof of my bedroom, the stucco on the roof, and it looked like the room was bathed in a street lamp light.
		Now, I missed the earlier part of the conversation, but I don't know if that's Carmen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is there anything common about that?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah, when you go out of body, everything glows around you.
		The whole world kind of glows, and the higher you go, the brighter it glows.
unidentified		Wow, yeah, and I had the buzzing and all that.
		And there was, anyway, my question is kind of, does that sort of physical and mental anxiety tend to cause those experiences?
		Because I haven't had a full OBE since then.
		So I have had sleep paralysis quite frequently, and I still have it, but it doesn't frighten me as much anymore because I kind of learned to live with it, right?
		It used to terrify me.
		Now it doesn't so much.
		But I wonder if you could tell me about that.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, absolutely.
		Yeah, fear of death is where this sort of thing is, I think, coming from.
		It's the most pervasive fear that we have.
		And this is something that confronts it head-on.
		And it can cause extreme fear and anxiety and terror.
		And it's something that we all have to work through.
		And this is why it's such a great thing for, you know, elevating you spiritually and working along the spiritual path.
		This is a great way to face your fears, I guess, is what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me ask you about drugs.
		There are those who say they have experiences very much as you have described, or part of what you have described, with certain mind-altering drugs.
		Is this an avenue you have experimented with or know about?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I have not experimented with it.
		I haven't taken hallucinogens or any of these so-called drugs, which do apparently have an effect like this.
		And I do know of a couple of cases at least where people have had drug overdoses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And some of those people definitely go all the way to the light.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		They do.
		And they don't always come back, but some do come back with these profound out-of-body experiences that they've had.
		So it's possible to do it through the influence of drugs or as a result of drugs.
		It's not something I would recommend.
		There are various ways of doing this.
		People do what you call diet purification things.
		You don't have to stop eating meat.
		I've done this under the influence of alcohol, which is, I guess, an interesting thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would think alcohol, which initially and for a very short time is a stimulant, but then becomes a depressant, I believe.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		It's much harder to do.
		I've noticed that.
		It's easier to do all this stuff if you're clear-headed, if you're not an angry person, if you don't have things you've procrastinated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		All these problems.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		But if you can work through all this sort of baggage within your personality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Makes it a lot easier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go to Andy and whoever is with Andy in the background.
		Hi, Andy.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Yes, it's my baby's awake and my wife.
		That's who you've been hearing in the background.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm actually in San Diego County, California.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, on the air you are.
unidentified		Yes, actually, I don't know how much time you allow per caller, but this subject really speaks to me.
		It's something that I've experienced my whole life, really.
		Just to give you a little bit of background on me, I was born and raised in Haiti.
		So English is really my third language, I would say.
		And growing up, I've always had this experience of being outside of my body to the point where as a child, I thought that was normal to leave your body and have different experiences at night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My goodness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it was so common that it was normal.
unidentified		Yes, to me, I thought it was something that everybody had experienced to the point where I tried it in real life, per se.
		And during my dreams, I would fly all the time.
		And I tried bad while I was awake, and I hurt my knees as a child.
		Really?
		Yes, I tried to fly in the hallway in my house, and I landed on my knees, and I hurt myself pretty badly.
		To me, that's how real it felt to the point where I tried to replicate it when I was awake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were fully awake when you did the bad deed to your knees?
unidentified		Yes, I was about maybe 10 or 11 years old, and I tried to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a pretty good question.
		Let me ask Preston about that.
		Preston, if you can't distinguish between when you're out and when you're in, then you could do something really awful like that, right?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting you bring this up because there's a number of cases where people have tried to fly as kids and they were successful.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		I wrote a book called Human Levitation, and it recounts a dozen cases like that, and 300-plus cases across the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We could go do a whole show on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been wanting to fly all my life.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		We can physically do that.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		This is something we can do on the other side, and sometimes the abilities from the other side translate here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you get it wrong, the knees hurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you get it wrong, you hurt your knees, right, Collar?
unidentified		Right.
		Yes, honestly, it felt real to me.
		It felt like I could do it at the moment.
		And when I did try it, it didn't end up really well for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so there you go.
unidentified		In the guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
		I messed you up there.
		Repeat what you just said.
unidentified		Yes, one thing I wanted to ask your guest, Mr. Arpel, is that sleep paralysis is something that I've experienced all my life along with all these wonderful experiences.
		And just to give you a little bit more about myself, I am currently an active duty member of the United States Marine Corps.
		And one time I was on the range in one Marine Corps base, I won't say which one, not to give myself away, but I was sleeping there at night and I had the sleep paralysis experience.
		And again, I felt the dark presence that most people feel when they are in sleep paralysis.
		But this time it didn't really go away after a while, like it usually does.
		It persisted over the night and I felt that presence over and over again.
		And I was very distressed.
		Every time I woke up, I was paralyzed and I felt that dark presence around me.
		And I felt like at one point there was a very good presence around me that came in order to help me get through that.
		And it showed itself to me in the form of a man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would this be the guide, Preston?
unidentified		That's what I wanted to know.
unidentified		Would that be the spirit guide or the guardian angel or the higher self or whatever anybody would call it that came to me to help me through that tough time?
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that very may well be.
		It sounds like it.
		The thing is, when you do these experiences, you start to increase your perception.
		You start to be able to see ghosts.
unidentified		And yes, I have been able to see ghosts or spirits my whole life, and it became common to me after a while.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		So yeah, you have to deal with that.
		You can sense bad energies.
		You can sense good energies.
		And it's a completely different world that we're dealing with here.
unidentified		But my question was that it gave me a name.
unidentified		This is the first time that anything I've seen in that weird state that I was in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Color, I'm going to have to go.
		We're so short on time.
		I want to say hello to Brenda very quickly.
		Hi, Brenda.
		Hello, Brenda.
		Going, Mark.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		It says, Brenda.
		Is that you?
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I repeat.
		Hello.
		Yes, hello.
		I hear an Australian accent.
		Speak.
unidentified		Not Australian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, where are you?
unidentified		New Zealand?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New Zealand, that's...
		It's a different country.
		Okay, we have only got a moment, so if you have a question, lay it on us.
		Just a wonderful program tonight.
		Well, that is so very kind of you to say.
		Thank you, and we'll end it there.
		Once again, since we're about at the end of the show, give us your website, Ways to Learn More, because that's what people want.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		If you want to go to my website, just Google my name, Preston Dennett.
		The actual website is PrestonDennett.weebly.com.
		But yeah, if you just Google my name, I've got all my books up on my website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		16 or 17 of them and a bunch of other stuff, excerpts.
		And I'd love to hear from people who've had this experience or have, you know, want to learn how to do it because definitely it's easy to do.
		You just have to take the effort and do it, you know, knuckle down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you obviously know a very great deal about it and have done a lot of it, which makes you such a joy to interview because, I don't know, you've been down the good part, the bad part, you've been through it all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Preston, thank you for being on the program.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's been an honor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you can be sure, I'm sure we'll do it again, buddy.
preston dennett ▲ ● ▼		Awesome.

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