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July 28, 2015 - Art Bell

02:36:52

Art Bell MITD - Richard Dolan

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	So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. I'm going to go ahead and start the video.
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening. I'm
	going to go ahead and start the video. From the high desert in the great American Southwest,
	I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case is, wherever
	you are in the world.
	Covered entirely by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
	Welcome, I'm Art Bell.
	Let me do the usual beginning here while we're getting this program started.
	The rules are no bad language and only one call per show.
	Other than that, there are no rules.
	I want to thank, as always, Telos for the great sound.
	By the way, if you've got earbuds or, you know, some sort of headphone, you can hear us in stereo and, boy, does it sound good.
	Keith Rowland, my webmaster, Dr. J, my producer, all of you, of course, the Belgab website, Streamguys, LD.net, and of course, Peter Eberhardt, who sells stuff and brings us things like The Screaming Lady.
	Actually, she's going to be a legend.
	All right, so today there was some interesting, not much news actually today.
	It was a very newsless day, but there was an item that I caught on to that I thought was amazing.
	I think it is amazing.
	A boy who lost limbs to infection, he lost both, has received a double hand transplant in Philadelphia.
	Eight-year-old boy.
	Lost his limbs to a very, very serious infection and got a double hand transplant.
	Where are we going with medical science?
	Pretty soon, just about, I think, just about everything is going to be replaceable.
	Isn't it?
	Then we'll be able to download our brains, I suppose.
	I received this note referenced last night's Grant Cameron Show.
	Art, so glad you're back.
	Listening to the show last night, and Grant Cameron was mentioning that some aliens, it was of course on abductions, some aliens that won't interfere with humans, that is, unless there's a nuclear threat.
	And this young lady is wondering why they didn't interfere when the U.S.
	dropped bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
	That's from Dawn in Monterey, California.
	Pretty good darn question, Dawn.
	Wish I'd thought of it last night when Cameron was here.
	You would think that the very first ones would have been absolute duds if they, in fact, had that power.
	So, coming up tonight, we have, I think, the hottest thing in ufology right now.
	That's the way I'd bill him, and that's the way others bill him to me, Richard Dolan.
	He's been researching UFOs for 20 years, believes they constitute the greatest mystery of our time.
	He is the author of several volumes of history and a speculative book about the future, his latest work, In 2014, UFOs for the 21st Century Mind is a fresh treatment of the entire subject of UFOs.
	In it, he discusses the important sightings, the encounters, the politics, the cover-up, the aliens, the ancient ones.
	The bizarre science disclosure offers advice on both critical and open-minded thinking in today's world.
	Richard hosts his own weekly radio show.
	That's right, and is featured in the new television documentary, Books by Authors from Around the World.
	His website is richarddolanpress.com.
	R-I-C-H-A-R-D-D-O-L-A-N-P-R-E-S-S dot com.
	And in a moment, he's going to be here.
	He's going to talk about ufology, perhaps in a way that you've never heard talked about before.
	Uh, very straight stuff.
	And, uh, you know, the first question I'm going to ask is the one that was brought up last night by Grant.
	And that is, Grant absolutely is convinced that these are good guys.
	That no matter how many different types there may be out there, they're all good guys.
	So that's what's coming up on RFL.
	From the high desert, which is beautiful at this time of night.
	100 degrees earlier, but now it's gorgeous out there.
	This is Midnight in the Desert raging into the night.
	The heart of the city sleeps, it's beating.
	The night from the neon's turned to dark today.
	It's way too hot to...
	...begin.
	Come on, men and women, skybox.
	Call Midnight in the Desert at MITD 51.
	That's MITD 51.
	Actually, don't call yet.
	Don't call yet.
	Just rest.
	We'll get to you.
	Your calls are coming, but coming right now.
	From New York, it's Richard Dolan.
	Richard, welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
	Good evening, Art.
	Thank you for having me on.
	It's a real pleasure to be able to talk with you, I think, for the first time.
	It is the first time.
	We've somehow missed each other over the years.
	I don't know how.
	The first thing I want to ask you about, if I can, before I leave what happened last night here, that was Grant Cameron, a Canadian fellow, who, no matter how I posed it, Richard, Absolutely believes that they, being all of them, all the different species that may be riding in these things we talk about, UFOs, are warm fuzzy little people who want nothing but the very best for us and our planet.
	We are all one.
	That kind of thing.
	And I sort of argued with that point of view.
	I wonder how you feel about it, if I can ask.
	I'm really glad that you jumped in with this question.
	First of all, Grant is not simply a respected colleague of mine.
	I consider him a friend, and I happen to be his publisher, believe it or not.
	A book that he wrote, co-authored, is now a book that I publish after Richard Dolan Press.
	I know Grant very, very well, and I've had this discussion with him, as a matter of fact.
	I suppose I would say that I respectfully disagree with his fundamental perspective on this.
	I guess what I would say is that I don't feel that I have enough information one way or the other to know definitively what the motives of these others, as I often will call them.
	I don't know that they're extraterrestrial aliens.
	I don't know that they're black budget terrestrial.
	I don't know that they're interdimensional.
	But I call them other.
	But I don't feel that really that Not only do I not have enough information, but I'm not really sure that I'm able to get the amount of information to know their motives.
	I think they operate on a very different level than what we do.
	That's a really good answer.
	That's a really good answer.
	How can we know?
	It's tricky because, as you mentioned in your intro, I have been looking into this phenomenon for 20 years, which is not as long as probably many of the listeners or other researchers, but it's long enough.
	And I have thrown myself into this field, and the longer that I'm in it, the more I realize that we're dealing with some very, very difficult mysteries, and one of them is simply definitively getting the intentions and motivations of what is the intelligence behind this phenomenon.
	It's eluded us.
	I have ideas, I'm sure you have ideas, and I'm happy to speculate about them, but I really can't say that I know for sure.
	Have you had your own sightings, or sighting?
	I had a couple of boring sightings that are almost not even worthwhile.
	I mean, compared with what I've learned interviewing many other people, the two odd things that I've seen in the daytime sky here in Rochester, New York, where I'm living, I don't like great shakes.
	What really got me into this field, I simply backed into it through academic training.
	That's really... Back in the 90s, I was working on a PhD in history at the University of Rochester.
	I was doing graduate studies on Harry Truman.
	How does that get to you, I suppose?
	Well, it wouldn't normally.
	The academic world doesn't really lead you that way, but I was bouncing around in the bookstore and I saw Timothy Goode's Above Top Secret, which is a classic.
	And it was a subtitle, the worldwide UFO cover-up that captured my attention.
	And I thought, oh, really?
	And I think like a lot of people in the world, they wonder at some point in everyone's life, I think they wonder, gee, I wonder if UFOs are real or if they're a thing.
	And simply because I was studying the late 1940s, which, of course, is the key years of the what people were saying was a UFO cover-up, I thought, well, I'd like to know.
	I don't want to go through my life wondering when I just figured out. So I thought I would take a few
	months out of my life and that's been 20 years.
	And do you think you haven't figured out yet?
	Well, you know, I go further and further down the road and I think that I learn more and more things
	about it. I don't think that any of us, no one is really going to get to the full bottom of it. But
	the thing is that the journey is the reward. And I do feel that I've learned quite a bit.
	I think that I've learned a lot about human civilization in the process, and I think I've probably learned a couple of things about myself, so it's absolutely worth the journey.
	Okay, there must have been some evidence, some thing, that as you were beginning in this journey convinced you that it
	was worth continuing in this journey and over some serious piece of
	evidence that you want holy crap
	absolutely absolutely uh...
	you know what i went into this uh... early nineties like ninety three ninety
	four and i really just started by asking myself what is the argument
	that those who believe
	in a cover-up or those who believe in the UFO reality what what are they basing their
	Is it the logical thing to look into?
	And what I found was that there is a fairly large cache of documents that were released through the Freedom of Information Act, primarily back in the 1970s under the Jimmy Carter presidency.
	When freedom of information was actually at its peak.
	It's gone through some ups and downs.
	Lots of downs.
	But in the late 70s, it really was possible for researchers, as it were, to shake that tree and for documents to come out.
	And there were quite a few.
	And they're all in the public domain now.
	They're out there.
	You can just read them.
	These were once secret classified documents in one way or another.
	And they tell a heck of a story.
	So what they primarily tell us, I think, is that there were innumerable violations of sensitive airspace back in the 40s, back in the 50s, by objects that quite frankly, Art, were just not supposed to exist.
	That's right.
	But here they are being written about by our Our national security people have got the people in charge of running it.
	So there are a couple of documents.
	One is, several of them are famous among researchers.
	One is the so-called Twining Memo of 1947.
	And in that, a three-star general, who later became a four-star general and chief of staff of the Air Force, Nathan Twining, wrote a letter in response to another general about these so-called flying discs that people were seeing all summer of 1947.
	And essentially, the general, Charles Shulgin, wanted to know Basically, is this a thing?
	Do I have to deal with this?
	Is this something I have to be concerned about?
	Twining wrote back.
	He didn't say no.
	He actually said, yes, this is a thing, and it doesn't seem to be our thing.
	And in this letter, which was a classified memo at the time, he said the reported characteristics are, he described them in some detail, silent or nearly silent, evasive maneuvers when sighted, Domed on top, flat on bottom.
	I thought that was rather interesting, and much more.
	So here you are, a classified memo in 1947.
	You have a top general describing this as a real thing.
	Probably my favorite of the early memos that I encountered back then was a letter, a memo to the director of the CIA back in late 1952, written by his chief of scientific intelligence.
	So it was two very high-level peoples, and they were talking about the phenomenon.
	There's one paragraph in the letter that I think is like every American and world citizen should know, and he's writing to his boss and he says, At this time, the reports of incidents convince us that there is something going on which must have immediate attention.
	Sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and traveling at high speeds in the vicinity of major U.S.
	defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomena or known types of aerial vehicles.
	Now, that's late 1952, and I mean, quite honestly, when I read that about 20 years ago when I was just getting started in this and I thought, holy smokes, if that, you know, you're not really going to say, boss, I think we're being invaded in a top secret classified memo to the CIA, but this is about as close as you're going to get.
	He's ruling out Soviet, basically.
	He's ruling out any kind of known technology.
	He's ruling out natural phenomena.
	He's talking about these are unexplained, insensitive areas.
	What more do you want?
	So clearly this was something important.
	Okay, it comes to a conclusion, right?
	Or if it doesn't, then I can come to one from what I just heard.
	If something is traveling in our skies at altitudes we can't or couldn't at that time do, and going at speeds that we can't even imagine, Then the conclusion has got to be, particularly if it's near national security installations, that all of this does represent a potential or real threat to national security.
	Absolutely.
	That's exactly the conclusion that I think that they came to, and I think that is exactly why there has been high levels of secrecy On this subject right from the beginning and I mean doesn't it make perfect sense?
	That was my conclusion after I read enough of these documents.
	And so I've been working for the last couple of decades trying to put this whole story together, and in a sense, kind of mainstream the UFO story and kind of connect it to the rest of American and world history, and kind of see it within that context.
	Okay, well, if that's true, if that is, and I could not have come to any other conclusion, but if that is what they came to, then you can almost bet That the documents you're quoting from back then must be nothing compared to what you could get if you really could get documents today.
	Oh, absolutely.
	In fact, this is such a pertinent question you just asked, because of the Freedom of Information Act documents that we received, especially back during the glory era of the seventies, even then, this was no walk in the park to get them, the highest levels of classification We're, and remain really off limits to us.
	That is, anything above the level of secret, we really haven't gotten anything.
	That means top secret and beyond top secret, which we know there are classifications beyond.
	What we have are secret, confidential, restricted, really classified, yes, but lower levels of classification.
	And this is significant because we have it on the authority of at least one classified FBI document from 1949 that the matter of UFOs or flying saucers was in fact
	considered top secret.
	And so the fact that it was of that classification and yet we haven't really gotten any of them except the few that
	were highly redacted and blacked out.
	So there's obviously a story that's left to be told from back then and yes from today.
	Most definitely because the Freedom of Information Act I think is much less user-friendly
	than it was back in the Jimmy Carter years.
	Well, there was a big flurry, of course, back in those years, as you mentioned, of, you know, people spotting UFOs and all kinds of things in our skies.
	What about more recent years?
	As you look at the various sightings, oh, I don't know, Phoenix Lights comes to mind, What's been the most recent significant thing?
	Well, in the last decade, first of all, I guess I would like to mention that if one were to go online and look for contemporary UFO reports, I think people would be rather blown away by how many sightings, just in North America alone.
	You go to the two main websites that are out there.
	There's the National UFO Reporting Center.
	Right.
	And then there's the MUFON site, the Mutual UFO Network.
	And both of them collect UFO sightings, what we might call raw reports, so people see something.
	And there's no investigation, but they'll type it in and put it on the site.
	So admittedly, they're raw.
	But if you just combine the sightings from those two websites alone, and I do not believe
	there's a lot of overlap, for 2014, I did a tally.
	And we're talking about 14,000 reports in North America, US, and Canada for those two sites, 14,000.
	14,000, it's an unbelievable amount.
	I'm not suggesting that all of them are alien craft or even black budget craft.
	but a lot of things that are are seemingly inexplicable to be a lot of
	marvinas a lot of our aircraft uh... yeah no doubt no doubt i mean a lot of
	my think are explainable but but uh... i mean i've gone through a lot of the
	reports and some of them i think are quite interesting but of of recent spectacular sightings uh...
	you know if you ask me this question a year or two from now i probably have a
	great answer because i'm working on the third volume of u of those in national
	security state which covers the recent years.
	But I can tell you offhand, I mean, two of the big ones, famous ones, and I think are important, is the 2008 Stephenville, Texas sighting, which was seen by many people, and the object that a lot of very qualified witnesses described was enormous, absolutely enormous.
	A few of them got a very close view of it.
	And that object was being pursued by F-16 jet interceptors.
	And we've got a lot of good data on that sighting.
	Any video?
	No, unfortunately.
	What we do have is radar data, however, which was acquired by MUFON from the FAA.
	And so we do know that there was an object tracked by FAA, an unknown.
	And we do have trackings of the F-16s who were seemingly in pursuit of it. So there's there is some data.
	You've got that and you've got some witness testimony that I think is actually quite compelling.
	And then the other one that I think and I personally did some investigation into this and it's a well-known case
	from 2002 near Washington DC.
	This is another case in which F-16 jet interceptors were chasing multiple unidentified objects that seemingly had
	the ability totally to outperform them.
	I spoke to two witnesses directly.
	This did get reported in the Washington Post and got repeated elsewhere.
	One of the Air Force individuals who was interviewed for that story, unnamed, but said, we had it on radar and it just disappeared off the radar.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, there's some good sightings that go on in this century, and there's many, many more.
	I think those are the two spectacular ones, probably, in America of the 21st century, off the top of my head.
	And then, of course, let's not forget the O'Hare Airport sighting in 2006.
	That one slipped my mind.
	Alright, so here's another one for you.
	One of the things that we used to rely on is pretty much gone now, and that is Photographic evidence.
	Oh yeah.
	There's just no way that I know of that you can actually verify that something you're looking at has not been created or tampered with.
	We've actually gotten so good with CGI that How do you feel about that?
	Can photographs be verified as not messed with?
	I have a really hard time with photographs these days.
	I would almost say that I don't even consider them evidence anymore, which is a shame.
	But for the reason that you're expressing, the ability to fake is so good now.
	But I would qualify it and say everything in context.
	So it really comes down to witness testimony combined with photographic evidence.
	If an investigator is looking into a sighting and you do have multiple witnesses that are, let's say, independent of each other, you know, there's ways of kind of gauging that, I suppose.
	And if they have photographic evidence with their testimony, I think you have to look at it, obviously, and do your best to have it analyzed in a careful way.
	There are people who are good at detecting CGI effects.
	No one is probably perfect.
	I'm disinclined to throw out photographic or video evidence, for that matter, out of hand, but we do have to be very, very, very cautious in dealing with it, for sure.
	A recent one that I saw that was really intriguing was the cube.
	Have you seen it?
	I'm not sure I saw that one.
	What?
	You haven't seen the cube?
	I guess not.
	Really, it's this black cube-shaped thing that comes out of a cloud.
	It's pretty amazing.
	I'm surprised that you would not have seen it.
	Well, I'm doing a lot of different projects right now.
	Is it totally recent?
	Fairly recent, yes.
	I'm sure I would have come across it.
	I don't know.
	I don't really know what to say about that.
	People show me UFO videos several every week.
	I'm constantly being asked to comment.
	It's funny to me because I I mean, other than the fact that I write about this subject, and I've looked at a lot of UFO video, I'm really not any more of an expert on detecting fakes than the next guy out there.
	There are people who are really skilled at it, and I'm not particularly one of them, but I do get shown these things all the time.
	Well, I recently saw an earthquake movie, and the CGI was so good in it, That as they showed California being destroyed, you couldn't tell it from the real thing, for the most part.
	I mean, it wasn't that good.
	So, you know, we're sort of doomed in the photographic area, I guess.
	Well, it's tricky.
	The only thing that I would suggest is that we're, you know, I feel like we're developing new means of electronic detection all the time, not simply old-fashioned photographs.
	But infrared and heat sensor type means of detection and other things.
	I think there's a lot of different data that increasingly is coming our way, and I don't... I mean, presumably everything can be faked, but, you know, it's possible that there are new means of detection coming along all the time, or that we're... that we use that... Well, when radar tries something doing 25 or 30,000 miles an hour through our atmosphere, and there have been those detections, That's incredibly fast.
	Nothing even close to what we can do, unless it's a rocket.
	I mean, these things are traversing the atmosphere and making turns to, you know, turn us into jelly, that sort of thing.
	We do have that, and it seems real.
	And then, of course, we have the military, as you pointed out earlier, chasing these things as well, as well they should.
	Well, right.
	I mean, think about the situation back in the 1940s.
	World War II had just ended.
	The most titanic military struggle in the history of the human race had just ended.
	You've got millions of people around the world homeless, millions more on the brink of starvation.
	And now here's the United States with this phenomenon of unknown things, whatever they are, making their parents.
	You know, the question would be, do you really tell the public about this before you yourself even have a handle on it?
	Of course, you can take it seriously and have your military look into it.
	You're not going to just advertise this to the public until you have at least an idea of what the heck you're dealing with.
	Well, do you tell the public is a really, really big question.
	And I have thought about this for years, and I used to say, you know, I think that the answer is probably not.
	In other words, if they know that we're being visited regularly by some creatures from somewhere, and they really know this for sure, the implications of telling the public, well, Brookings, I felt, might have had it right.
	I'll tell you what.
	Hold on.
	We're at a breaking point.
	You can actually relax for a few moments.
	We've got our newscast on.
	Stay right where you are.
	We'll be right back to Richard Dolan.
	I'm Art Bell.
	I'm Art Bell.
	For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcroft.
	Earthquakes around an active underwater volcano off the coast of Granada in the West Indies have locals worried.
	The residents have noticed more gas bubbles rising to the surface of the ocean this month.
	The volcano, known as Kickum Jenny, is about 180 meters below the surface of the ocean.
	Because of the rise in earthquake shutters, We've had over 200 this month alone, as well as the gas expulsions.
	The Seismic Research Center at the University of West Indies moved the alert status to orange this week, but has since moved it back to yellow.
	While Kikimjini is located about five miles away from Granada, the real danger is to boats coming into it and going away from the island as the volcanic gas and matter could heat up the surrounding waters to a toasty 302 degrees.
	An exclusion zone has also been marked out for passing boat traffic to stay about three miles away from the volcano.
	Kickum Jenny has erupted over a dozen times since its discovery in 1939, with its last eruption being in 2001.
	This is Dark Matter News.
	Only 12 people have walked on the moon, and we haven't been back since 1972.
	But a new NASA commission study has found that we can now afford to set up a permanent base on the moon by mining for lunar resources and partnering with private companies.
	Returning humans to the moon could cost 90% less than expected, bringing estimated costs down from $100 billion to $10 billion.
	That's something that NASA could afford on its current deep space human spaceflight budget.
	Mark Hopkins, the Executive Committee Chair of the National Space Society, said in a press release that a factor of 10 reduction in cost changes everything.
	The study released this week was conducted by the National Space Society and the Space Frontier Foundation, two non-profit organizations that advocate building human settlements beyond Earth, and it was reviewed by an independent team of former NASA executives, astronauts, and space policy experts.
	Science has a fetish for trying to amalgamate humanity with machine, and its latest endeavor in this pursuit has taken the form of an emergency brain implant technology that would render humans part flesh, part computer.
	Researchers from the University of California Berkeley have come up with a concept they've dubbed Neural Dust, that they say can be implanted into people's brains for data collection purposes.
	The technology is reportedly so small that humans wouldn't even know it was inside their heads.
	Using a special wire apparatus, the neural dust can be dipped into a person's cerebral cortex, where it would remain embedded indefinitely.
	And since it's powered by special piezoelectric materials, this dust wouldn't require a recharge, which means once it's there, it's there for good.
	This neural dust contains a complementary metal oxide semiconductor.
	This allows it to monitor and track a person's brain activity.
	After gathering data, the dust then transmits it to a special transmitter installed on a person's scalp.
	The team that came up with the idea claims neural dust could be used to treat chronic diseases and severe disabilities with greater ease.
	That's the good side of this.
	The bad side is microscopic cranial implants offer a way for nefarious entities to literally enter the minds of humans.
	Perhaps undetected and track their thoughts and behaviors.
	Many say this is a much more likely scenario, a type of mark of the beast for one's brain that could allow governments to control people's minds.
	Consider the fact that the American military has openly admitted to funding brain computer projects capable of controlling people's thoughts and emotions.
	To the tune of 70 million dollars, the U.S.
	military funded research into implantable electrodes that could be installed into people's brains to both read and control their emotions.
	And the reasoning was to help mentally ill people recover from their demons and addictions.
	How these new brain implants will be used in the future?
	Only time will tell.
	But our generation has truly outlived science fiction.
	For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
	You can dance, you can cry, everything's a lie for your eyes.
	Ooh, if you don't know, watch the scene, see you standing free.
	Friday night and the lights are low, looking out for a place to go.
	Where the dead are right in the scene, getting in the scene, you come to live for a claim.
	Anybody can see that you're lying.
	In that darkest time, between dusk and dawn, from the high desert, it's Art Bell's Midnight in the Desert.
	Now, here's Art.
	That's a very popular song associated with my program, and you know who I think did that besides me?
	I think it was Phil Henry.
	Every time he did a parody of me, and there were many, he used this song.
	So that's how identified it is.
	My guest is Richard Dolan.
	And he's sort of at the top of the UFO community right now in the United States, if not worldwide, and thought of very, very well, does a great deal of talks, and probably has paid very, very well for them, and for good reason.
	He's a good talker.
	Okay, so we were talking about whether or not we tell the, we, whether Whoever it is that has this information makes it public or doesn't make it public.
	And Brookings a long time ago did a study that said American institutions would fall, religious people would get very upset if we knew they were here.
	And then there's also one other school of thought that I'll throw in, and you can pick from, and that is that our own U.S.
	military is pretty darn good.
	Best in the world, I guess.
	Frankly, if the U.S.
	military can't catch these things, can't bring them down, can't affect them, then, well, that's not something you'd want to tell the American people.
	You know, some fly in over our sensitive military installations, and we don't seem to be able to do anything about it.
	That's not something you'd probably make public.
	So how do you come down on all this?
	Yeah, well first of all, I guess I just want to jump in and say that as far as getting paid well for conferences and the like, that would be great if that were the case, but that circuit doesn't...
	If someone goes into the UFO field for the money, then they're under a really big misapprehension about how much money is there.
	Although I enjoy what I do, I feel like a very lucky guy that I get to research this and spend my life looking into these questions and meeting amazing people.
	Well, they ought to be paying you very well.
	Leave it at that.
	I said they ought to be paying you very well, and whoever offers him a chance... We're getting your question about what to do regarding secrecy and telling the public.
	This is an important issue for me, I guess philosophically, in my work.
	I write about it a lot.
	It's something that always comes up.
	And whereas it's very easy to see the motivation that the military would have, the national security community would have in wanting to keep this secret, obviously they have their reasons.
	But I would maintain that their reasons are not the sum total of the reasons we have to be considering.
	Because I think what's happened is that the secrecy relating to UFOs has had a very negative effect on our society, a very negative effect on our civilization.
	I think it's had a kind of a dissolving effect on the kind of Republican institutions that those of us who believe in such things grew up being taught, you know, this is our society, and I think that they really don't exist anymore.
	And the UFO secret is one, not the only reason, but one of the reasons why that basically what we have, I think, is a corpse of a republic.
	Um, so I would say that the real fundamental issue is, um, you know, we've got secrecy now going on, not just for the first five years during the Truman administration, but it's gone on for an entire human lifetime, you know, 70 years, basically.
	And I really think we need to ask as a society, hey, is this really what we want?
	I mean, In other words, being spoon-fed lies for the rest of our lives, which requires, by the way, total control over the mainstream establishment media, total control over the key academic institutions that are involved here, because they have to be kept in mind, total control over the political institutions globally, in order to maintain secrecy on this fiction that there are no other beings being with us when all the evidence shows that they are.
	So I think what it does is it just does bad things to a society and civilization and human psychology when you have to live a kind of fake reality, which I think is what's happened.
	So no, I actually come down on the side that look, no matter how bad the situation may be, and I don't have all of the facts at my disposal, I do.
	I will retain a faith in the value of truth.
	I will always do that.
	And I retain a faith in the value of democratic rule.
	I'm never going to give up on it.
	So I think that if I'm going to live in this world as a human being and as a citizen of the world and a member of the human race, then I'm going to live in it as someone who believes in the value of truth over all things and in the value of human dignity.
	So I don't want to be treated like a child.
	We have this out in the open.
	How do we get to it?
	How do we get to it, Richard?
	Well, that's the question.
	I would say a couple of things.
	One, we're living in very revolutionary times.
	This isn't 1950.
	This isn't even 1990.
	This isn't even 1990. This is more in 2015.
	You know, organizations like Wikileaks have only been around for about 10 years,
	and the only reason they've been around only 10 years is that they really couldn't exist more than 10 years ago
	because we didn't have a global infrastructure to accommodate groups like that.
	You know, organizations like Anonymous who could just take digital data and grab it and throw it out there in the world to see.
	And so it's a new world now.
	I mean a world where everyone's got smartphones and Admittedly, that means an explosion of YouTube videos, but I still maintain the idea that at some point there's going to be a sighting that hits the proverbial sweet spot, and there's going to be multiple people capturing an object that's going to be maybe difficult to explain away.
	That's a matter of faith, I will grant you, but I think it's likely.
	So when I think it's going to happen, I think in such a tumultuous era that we are in, That to assume that tomorrow's going to look like today I think is a bit foolish, and I therefore believe that something's going to happen that's going to open this up unexpectedly.
	I don't believe that the powers that be have any real desire to acclimate us to the reality.
	Some people believe that I'm not in that camp.
	I think they're going to keep the lid on this as long as possible, but the fact is that they can't They can't do it forever.
	I mean, there are just too many factors involved.
	So I'm waiting for something explosive to happen, and I'm not sure I'm able to predict that, but it could be a signing, it could be a leak.
	Alright, how about this?
	You know, the people who have been keeping these secrets, if we assume that somewhere around 45 it all began, the people who have been keeping these secrets are now getting old, And they're getting close to passing on, and you would think that a lot of people would want to unburden themselves before the end.
	Yeah, well, I think a lot of that original generation might have felt that way, but I also believe that this is a very profitable secret.
	So, I don't think there's a lot of incentive for, like, as new people come in, I think they're making money off of this, and here's why I think that.
	Because I think part of the UFO secret involves acquired technology.
	So let's talk about something like Roswell, which I think was, in fact, the recovery of exotic technology that is not from our civilization.
	That's a long conversation we could have, but I believe that is the case.
	And in fact, I believe that there are other instances as well in which it seems probable that we acquired some of their stuff.
	And what that would mean I mean, that's holding the future in your hands, and so what I think happens is if you're the army, you've got this material.
	You're going to very carefully parcel it out to your key defense contractors and research and development people, and they're going to figure it out.
	And suddenly, you've got a goose that's laying golden eggs.
	Or an iPhone.
	And no incentive.
	Or an iPhone.
	I mean, who knows what we have now?
	I think we've got a boost.
	I mean, I believe that our own scientific trajectory, I guess that's the way to put it, probably would get us on the path that we are on, but I happen to think that acquired technology through retrievals has probably sped things up a bit.
	Oh, by the way, when you get a break, or anybody else out there, I got a whole bunch of computer messages.
	What's the cube?
	They said.
	Oh, I just looked at that.
	It's at the top of our... Oh, you did?
	It's at the top of Artbell.com website right now, if you go there.
	So, midnight in the desert.
	Take a look at it.
	I saw an article on it.
	Yeah, the raw cube is not so good, but the video, there is a video associated with it, and it's astounding.
	I mean, you can actually see this thing breaking out of a cloud.
	It's pretty amazing.
	The article I'm seeing, by the way, is really not the best article.
	It has a lot of irrelevancies in it, but I'm seeing an image of what looks like a black cube and a lot of kind of smoke above it.
	I don't know if that's the same thing you're seeing.
	It is quite interesting.
	Yeah, you've got to see the whole video, so when you get a couple of minutes, just click on the video and take a look.
	It's really astounding.
	Anyway, so you think that We could take the truth.
	Do you think it would upset existing institutions?
	I don't think we're ever going to be ready for the truth.
	Ever.
	Never.
	Not ever.
	But who's ever ready for their first kid?
	No one, and you have it anyway.
	I think that frankly, no, the truth on the UFO matter My position is, and really it's not for me to say, are we ready or not?
	I mean, history is just going to go.
	We're on a path here.
	It's going to happen.
	I don't think there's anyone that's really going to be able to stop this.
	We are moving along, and the truth is going to come out.
	And when it does, I believe, it's going to be very messy, and it's going to be highly disruptive.
	In fact, it's going to be revolutionary in every conceivable way.
	I know there'll probably be a lot of people angry at me and maybe angry at you for being the kinds of people to talk about this and maybe helping to speed up the process for all I know, but it's going to be irrelevant.
	It's going to happen.
	I do think when it does, and I co-authored a book on this exact question.
	It doesn't even make me an expert, but it does mean I've thought about it.
	I think that it's going to be a political nightmare for the powers that be because I People will not only want to know, first of all, are we safe?
	Who are these other beings?
	Are they here to help us or to eat us?
	But then there's going to be a political blowback against the very institutions, and people are going to realize that they've been lied to, fundamentally, for generations.
	And I'm sure, I mean, there are some people who are just willing to roll over and take it, but I think a lot of people will be very unhappy, and I think some heads will roll, politically.
	How far that will go is the real question you know will we have in remember occupy Wall Street?
	Will we have occupy area 51 or occupy Wright-Patterson Air Force Base or whatever?
	I don't know, but I think that there's potential for a lot of anger
	And I think that's an opportunity frankly for us to hopefully
	remake this
	Society of ours into something approximating a free Republic I don't think we have it now. I think it's been
	dead for a while I think we have a kind of oligarchy and again the UFO
	secrets been part of the Part of the impetus to create that oligarchy, so it just
	might be that Disclosure that's the word a lot of people use
	I'm...
	Could be ultimately a good thing.
	It will be upsetting.
	I think it will turn a lot of things upside down.
	I met with a lady.
	I went to the bank the other day and the bank teller asked what I did for a living.
	I said, well, I write books on UFOs.
	I just come out.
	I don't care.
	And she had this look of real horror on her face.
	She actually looked very scared.
	She said, I don't want to talk about that.
	That frightens me.
	And I think that there's a lot of people like that.
	But the fact is, They'll have to deal with it.
	You know, you can spend the rest of your life pulling your hair out of your head, running around in circles, or at some point, you're going to have to catch your breath and say, all right, this is real.
	What next?
	Well, I think you were right about the current state of things, and this is only a little bit political.
	Donald Trump is just doing amazing things.
	Love him, hate him, whatever.
	However you feel about him, it doesn't matter.
	He's saying all these wild things, and he's going up and up and up.
	No matter how wild and how bad, he keeps going up.
	And I think that translates to, we're ready to burn it all down, kind of.
	Yeah, well, I think, and also, whatever one feels about Trump, I think the reason people gravitate to him right now is simply because they know every politician out there really is just a professional liar.
	That's what I mean by burn it all down.
	Yeah, and Trump is saying things that are very politically incorrect, as it were, and a lot of people, I think, they sense that, you know, there's a guy, whether he's being truthful in his motivations or not is another thing, but he certainly sounds different than the other guys.
	Yeah, I think it just shows that the public is fed up.
	You know, every year they say, take America back, all this sort of stuff, but this time, I think what Trump is doing represents a revolution in thinking in America by Americans.
	We'll see.
	We'll see.
	Well, I was waiting for people to latch on to Ron Paul, which in fact they did, and he just got no media love, but hey, that's just me.
	Right.
	I loved him, too.
	I interviewed him.
	He's a very nice guy.
	All right, so, where to go now?
	Somebody asks on the computer for you to please address the whole controversy around the Roswell slides.
	You've got to be kidding me.
	No, I'm sure.
	Well, that was a big thing a few months ago, and some people, I guess, are still interested in that.
	So, what happened was, and I played a peripheral role in this, peripheral at best, but I was involved for the great unveiling, as it were, of them in Mexico City a couple of months ago.
	So, for several years, researchers Donald Schmidt and Tom Carey, who wrote a very excellent book on Roswell called Witness to Roswell, I highly recommend it, came across what they thought was evidence that was presented to them of Two old Kodachrome slides that belonged to a deceased individual, actually a deceased couple, from the 1940s that appeared to them to depict an alien body on the glass.
	Right.
	So Don and Tom had this for a while and they'll be the first to tell you now, they got very excited about this and they were very gung-ho.
	They believed they had something.
	Rather than just putting it out there, they went and looked for their own experts and wanted to investigate it before
	they went any further with it.
	Which I don't really fault them for that policy.
	So they spent some money, they looked around, they found people to analyze the slides themselves, the dating of the
	slides and on and on and on.
	And the more they looked into it, the more they thought this is very interesting.
	They eventually connected with Jaime Muson of Mexico and many people know about Jaime.
	Jaime put some serious money behind the research and actually got a lot of money.
	a number of academicians in Mexico to look at the physiology of the body itself.
	And this is actually what intrigued me for at least a little while.
	Those physiologists said this is not a human being, this is not a mummy,
	this is an unusual body and it doesn't seem to be a human being at all.
	At that point, shortly before they were going to do a big reveal in Mexico City on May 5th
	of this year, they asked me if I would participate in it.
	Yes.
	And I took about a week to decide, and after a long conversation with Don Schmidt, who is a friend of mine, and I've known Don for years and I respect him, He believed, and also I spoke at length to another researcher named Tony Bregaglia, who some people don't know Tony, but he's an active blog writer and a good guy.
	I like Tony.
	So I spoke to both of them, and they both know about this, and they were both deeply impressed by the slide.
	And I went outside on scene, so I didn't see the slide.
	And they didn't really, I don't know if they didn't trust me or if they didn't want to show me, but I didn't see it until I went to Mexico City.
	So I go down there, and what I was impressed by, at least for the day that I was there before the thing was unveiled, was the analysis of the Mexican physiologist, and a Canadian physiologist as well, who said, this is not a human being.
	And I thought, well, this isn't proof of anything.
	And I always maintained it wasn't proof of any alien body.
	But I did say, that seems compelling to me.
	And if it's going to be debunked, I would think some physiologists need to debunk it.
	Well, here's what happened.
	So it gets revealed on May 5.
	Big auditorium in New Mexico City, webcam, and I think three or four days later, a group of independent researchers looking at it said, we've deciphered the fuzzy placard in front of this thing, which no one was able to read, and it says definitively that this is a two-year-old child mummy.
	And I mean, that absolutely settled it.
	So, that's it.
	That's really the Roswell slide thing.
	Now, the other aspect of it, I guess I would say, is that this turned into, in my opinion, it turned into like this UFO Armageddon in the minds of some people, which I don't really think it was.
	It was a mistake.
	Don and Tom in particular, yes, they got really behind this, and they absolutely believed that this was an alien body, and they explicitly connected it to Roswell.
	Alright, I'm sorry to do this to you guys.
	It was a mistake, but I think that's really what it is, and life goes on.
	Alright, and indeed, life goes on.
	And, I might add, it cost some people a lot of money, that's for sure.
	Roswell Slides.
	Okay, Richard Dolan is my guest.
	We're talking UFOs. We'll be right back.
	This is a test.
	This is a test.
	We're talking UFOs. We'll be right back.
	We're talking UFOs. We'll be right back.
	Yeah, we're living in a modern world.
	Yeah, this country's really got the notion of flying out across the big blue ocean.
	Yeah, we're living in a modern world.
	We're talking UFOs and satellites.
	We're talking information.
	We're talking America.
	Want to take a ride?
	Exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	This is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
	To call Art, please dial 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	Richard Dolan is my guest.
	We're discussing the state, actually, of ufology, because that really is a good way to put it in the world.
	We're discussing the state.
	UFO, Armageddon, Well, I don't know about that.
	I'm sure at the moment that that became obvious.
	It felt like Armageddon, but it's not Armageddon, and onward we go.
	There's got to be these kinds of mistakes, and we're going to see more of them, aren't we?
	Yes, I have no doubt.
	You know, none of us are infallible.
	All we can do is our best.
	You try your best not to make missteps along the way.
	The thing is, the field, the subject is intrinsically difficult.
	We're dealing with, I think, the most difficult mystery of our time, and the second layer of that is that, yes, there is government obfuscation surrounding it.
	So, you know, at times you feel like you're groping around in the dark, and you just have to do the best you can do.
	Can you characterize the secrecy itself, UFO secrecy?
	I mean, there must be a large manipulation of information.
	It must be very compartmentalized.
	I don't know.
	How does it work?
	Yeah, I think the first thing that I would want to say about this is that the phenomenon itself, and we discussed this going way back, required, at least in the minds of those people who had the secret, The necessity for maintaining absolute secrecy.
	So along those lines, it meant control over media, academia, science.
	And if someone thinks that that's impossible, I think they should look again.
	In fact, forget UFOs.
	There's a lot of evidence to show that those institutions are very much in bed with national security and financial institutions.
	that are intertwined with them.
	You have the creation of black budgets.
	This is very important.
	So that is what we would call secret spending.
	It's an integral part of the system.
	We might know them as special access programs.
	These are programs within the US federal military budget that there's no oversight for.
	And that's the official ones.
	And that's officially we're talking $50 billion and more.
	In reality, I think the black budget includes much greater amounts of money in terms of proceeds from narco trafficking and securities, banking fraud and the like, which are deeply intertwined with the intelligence community.
	So a lot of this money is floating around.
	On top of that, you have, you know, along with that, I guess I should say, illegal criminal financing of I mean, no one really has any idea how much money is going into the black budget world, and a lot of that, I think, or a portion of that goes into the UFO technology program, because I think that understanding and replicating this is key.
	I'm sorry, you really think narco money is going into black budgets?
	Yeah, I do.
	Well, look, I mean, narcotics trafficking is, I don't know, it's probably one of the top five industries in the world.
	Absolutely.
	And just because it's illegal, technically, doesn't mean that no one wants it.
	Everyone wants it.
	Everyone wants that money.
	That's right.
	And drug trafficking, by the way, has a long history in Western governments.
	I mean, Britain was drug trafficking in opium and forced it on China back in the 1840s.
	The United States CIA was involved in drug trafficking from the end of the Second World War onward.
	The Golden Triangle out of Southeast Asia.
	It's all CIA.
	Oliver North.
	Yeah, the cocaine connection in the 1970s and 80s, which we now, I mean, it's absolutely, they did a movie, Kill the Messengers, about Gary Webb, all about that.
	This is, I mean, no one is acknowledging it, but that doesn't make it any less true.
	So yeah, narco-trafficking is a big part of the black budget money, I think, that circulates.
	And then, you know, Laundering.
	Laundering that creates its own, you know, there's all kinds, the laundered money goes into other types of business ventures, I guess I should say, and it gets leveraged into other things, so it's a huge financial win.
	So that implies the U.S., I'm sorry, it implies the U.S.
	makes deals, which essentially say, look, you've got a lot of money, more money than anybody will ever need.
	We need money for one of our black budget projects, whatever it may be.
	Um, you get the money to us, we offer you some level of protection.
	I mean, that is the kind of deal that has to get made, right?
	Yeah, I think that's basically about right.
	I mean, it's a mafia type of a world.
	I mean, unfortunately, when people watch news groups like CNN, they get the kindergarten version of reality, the propaganda version in which we have elected officials who sort of work for us and work for freedom, and none of that is true.
	I mean, not one aspect of that is true.
	What is true is that you have the United States acting as the police force for an international financial empire.
	That's what it does.
	And because the reality is so upside down from the official CNN version of things, I mean, the CNN is necessary to exist because, I mean, my God, if they were to actually tell the truth on what they're doing, it would be a revolution the next day.
	They'd be dusting off the guillotines.
	So you have to have absolute lies.
	I mean, that permeates our world.
	Richard, you mentioned CNN, so I can't let this pass.
	There's a lot of recent discussion on the web about CNN and connections to the CIA by some of their reporters, perhaps even higher up.
	Well, obviously.
	I mean, you know, obviously.
	Back in the 40s and 50s, I don't mean to sound like, oh, yeah, but really, it is obvious.
	The United States ran something known as Operation Mockingbird back in the 40s and 50s and 60s, and they're successors to Mockingbird to this day.
	And really, all that was is a CIA coordination with American establishment media, you know, Washington Post and New York Times and the rest, managing the news, creating spin, you know, all of this.
	This is all out in the open now.
	We know about this.
	Now it's beyond CIA.
	It's the Pentagon, which has billions of dollars in its budget simply to manage its image, and that includes news control, that includes public relations, that includes social media, that includes the creation of what are known as sock puppets, that is, fake persona under the messages and the news articles that you read.
	I mean, a lot of those are fake Pentagon employees.
	So it's crazy.
	And the CNN, think about this.
	CNN is a part of a private corporation, which is Time Warner.
	And yet, I fly a lot.
	I'm sure you fly.
	I do.
	A lot.
	Every single U.S.
	airport, I do not think there's an exception.
	Anytime there's a TV at any gate, and there's thousands, you always see CNN.
	Always.
	And the question I would ask is, why CNN?
	Why is it that a private company is able to get such a sweetheart deal in every American airport to be seen?
	I mean, they have the monopoly of information on every U.S.
	airport.
	That is not by accident.
	And that is, I would argue, explicitly because they act as the propaganda arm of the United States government.
	I agree with you.
	But you know, as we discuss all this, frankly, it's kind of depressing.
	I mean, it really is.
	When you realize the state of your own government and what you're being fed, it really is ultimately a little depressing.
	Now, is there a way to punch through all of that?
	Well, and also I would love to continue, at some point, I don't want to just keep rolling over our interesting discussion, but there are many more facets of the structure of secrecy that I think are worth discussing.
	But in terms of punching through, the only way that I personally know in my life is to do the work that I do, to do the research that I do, to write in as clear, cogent, and engaging way as I can, to get people worked up and caring.
	About why the truth matters.
	You know, I'm here to say truth does matter.
	And it does matter that we not go through our lives basically sleepwalking through being spoon-fed lies that are designed to keep us placid and content with the kind of illusions that are around us.
	I think that there's more to our lives and there's more to my life than that.
	So I think the way to punch through It's with diligent, careful research and fearless exposition of the truth.
	You have a very lucid presentation, and I wonder if others in high places have noticed that, and I wonder if you have ever been approached to modify in some way something you're saying.
	Well, right.
	So if I were to tell you something, people might think, well, I don't know if I believe him or not.
	I have never been approached, I have never been threatened or asked to modulate anything that I've said.
	Not one time.
	Not a single time.
	Now, honestly, when I look at my own public position, I mean, I have I have readers and I have people who like what I do, but it's not really in the millions.
	I mean, I still think as a UFO researcher, I'm still a relatively small player, and maybe that's why.
	I think the so-called powers that be, maybe they think, well, he's just, you know, he's just working in this fringe market.
	He's not really, he's not on MSNBC or CNN, so we don't have to worry about him.
	Maybe that's it.
	Or maybe there are other ways of disabling people.
	You know, the revelations of Edward Snowden, for example, talked about how GCHQ, that's Britain's version of the NSA, are expert, really, in destroying public reputations.
	This is one of the things that they know how to do very well.
	So I would think that... In fact, they tried to do this to Glenn Greenwald, and Greenwald outed them on that.
	Um, so I think that that's actually, you know, one tactic that that groups might use.
	I mean, there's always a way to compromise an individual.
	We're all human and there might be ways of, you know, if I hopefully that's not going to be the case with me, but I've never been threatened.
	I do think that I've been monitored.
	I went for a couple of years where I was stopped at every airport I flew out of.
	Oh?
	This was about a decade ago.
	They would let me fly, but they would make me wait 15 minutes every single time while they ran my name.
	And they never told me why.
	All right, well then let me come at it from a different direction.
	Do you think that we, the collective we, that talk about this kind of thing, are useful to them in some way?
	Yeah, I think that we can be if, well, first of all, you know, there's a long history of intelligence operations where groups are infiltrated by operatives to be guided in a certain direction.
	I mean, classically, that was called COINTELPRO and that for years.
	Yes, sir.
	And this kind of thing continues to go on to this day.
	And again, these are more of the Snowden revelations, and not just Edward Snowden, but a lot of
	this other information has come out.
	So groups, I think, are infiltrated, and I think that does include the UFO community.
	So the question we really want to be asking is, who are the spooks in the UFO field?
	Because maybe that's what we should be asking.
	And there's constant rumors and speculation that people have about various individuals.
	you But I think, so that's one way that the community can be guided.
	Well, you know we've got the spooks.
	I think that was the case with MUFON for years, by the way.
	Of course it still might be for all I know.
	Sure, they've got to know where we are and whether we're headed in a direction that might worry them.
	So yes, of course, of course there are spooks.
	Right.
	So, you know, the question is, to what extent are they able to use public figures or researchers like yourself or like myself or other people to their benefit?
	And with me specifically, I don't know how they would, because I'm not aware that they do.
	But, you know, certainly one thing that you could easily see them doing would be to have a public individual who's got prominence To steer away from certain sensitive issues and on to other things that may be a kind of red herrings.
	Or you might imagine they do things like, I don't know, produce the Roswell slides that ultimately turn out to be almost Armageddon for ufology.
	Yeah, I suppose.
	Of the people involved in the Roswell slides, only one of them is someone whose motives I don't really know that I can really vouch for, and that would be Adam Dew.
	Who did come into this and seemed to be very interested in making money off of those slides.
	Relating to Tom Carey and Donald Schmidt, look, in my opinion, I know both of these guys, there's not a chance that they were actively engaged in any kind of disinformation.
	I will never believe that.
	In terms of Jaime Muson, a lot of people like to criticize Jaime.
	Uh, as a showman or, uh, you know, someone who has latched onto a lot of questionable cases.
	I think the latter is true.
	I think he has.
	Um, personally, I do like Jaime, and I actually, I've enjoyed talking to him over the years.
	But I do not think, I think his judgment was fallible.
	I don't think that he was engaging in disinformation.
	All right.
	All right.
	Good enough.
	We're at another break point, so stand by.
	We'll be right back.
	From the high desert.
	Raging in the night time.
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	Art Bell.
	Go, ride around by the wind.
	Throw down a spin.
	I gave you love, I thought that we Had made it to the top.
	I gave you heart, I have to give.
	Why did it have to be stop
	blowing off sky high by telling me a lie
	without a reason why you're blowing off sky high
	you're blowing off sky high wind blowing
	music I can see her lying back in a satin dress
	in a room where you do what you don't confess some down you better take care
	if I find you been creeping down my backspace some
	the night in the desert spans the world to call us from outside the u s and
	canada only use skype with a headset like if on a computer and call him
	in td fifty five that's in my td
	fifty five dole and is my guest and i think i want to ask him a little
	about presidents um...
	richard almost every president that has come into office uh...
	bold let me back up uh... when they're running
	for the respective nominations there always asked mister would be president
	mister nominee whatever when you if you get into office will you open the files on
	u f of the Inevitably, oh yes!
	We'll do that first thing.
	And a number of presidents have been asked about this, and then One always has to wonder if after they're in office for, well, probably in the first 24 hours, somebody sits them down and gives them the talk.
	Yeah.
	I think that's right.
	Well, most, I think, significantly, this happened many years ago with Jimmy Carter.
	And he's probably the best example, although now the question does seem to come up with regularity to presidential candidates now.
	But Carter, you know, was the first, I think, the first U.S.
	presidential candidate who openly said, hey, I saw a UFO.
	It was unexplained.
	It was in Leary, Georgia, back in 1969.
	And he never said it was a spacecraft, but he did see it with a group of people, and he thought it was unusual, and he didn't know how to explain it.
	And I think wisely, he was just very open about it, and he didn't really catch any media grief over it, like Dennis Kasich did years and years later.
	But Carter did, you know, because of this open attitude, he was asked, and he said, yeah, look, if I have an opportunity to declassify UFO files, he said, as long as it does not affect national security, and that was a That was a big caveat.
	Sure is.
	But he added, yes, I would do it.
	And, you know, one of the big stories of Jimmy Carter's first year as president is kind of a forgotten story, but it's important.
	People like your guest last night, Grant Cameron, wrote about it.
	And I also wrote about it in one of my books.
	The year 1977 was his first year as president.
	And this was a year that thousands and thousands of letters came to the White House.
	from constituents, citizens, who talked about their UFO sightings and asked President Carter to end secrecy on UFOs.
	They were getting mailbag after mailbag of letters coming into the White House, all in the spring and summer of 1977.
	This is an incredible thing!
	Thousands of them.
	And, in fact, Jimmy Carter, as far as we can tell, did I guess we could say carefully or tentatively look into the possibility of having a federal agency kind of resume the job of the old Project Blue Book, which was what the Air Force had in the 50s and 60s to investigate UFOs.
	And he was looking at the possibility of NASA taking on that role.
	And what we can now see very clearly is that NASA, with the CIA standing right behind them, said, No, we're not going to be doing this, no way in hell, not ever, not a chance.
	And I mean, they were just saying this to the president.
	The other thing that I can say about Carter, you asked about, you know, did he have a sit down where he was briefed?
	And I think the answer to that is yes.
	And one thing that I mentioned in one of my books, A.D.
	After Disclosure, was a story that came to me from, this is one of my few anonymous deep throat sources, and I hate having to rely on such People but the fact is that I'm not allowed to use this man's name.
	What I can say is that he was high level CIA and he is an absolutely brilliant man.
	I know him somewhat well.
	I've had some long conversations with him and he and I share another very close mutual friend.
	All I can say is this guy knows a number of former US presidents and former directors of the CIA and former secretaries of defense on a first name basis.
	I asked him on one occasion, what do presidents know about UFOs?
	And his short answer was, well, some know more than others.
	And then his long answer, he got into some specifics.
	And the Jimmy Carter story that he knew was as follows.
	In June of 1977, he said to me, Carter was briefed on the matter of UFOs slash extraterrestrials.
	He was briefed in June of that year.
	This is according to this man.
	Now, the man was not present at the briefing.
	He said he does know, and he was very careful in how he qualified all this, but he said at the end of the briefing, Carter was seen at his desk, head in hands, elbows on the desk, sobbing.
	Right.
	That was the story as it came to me.
	And all I can tell you is that I, well, I believe the man who told me the story.
	And the day will come when I'll give his name up, but right now I just don't feel that I can.
	So, I mean, if I put that together, along with everything else that I know, what I'm guessing is that Carter was told something really devastating about this.
	There we go.
	Like, A, they're here to put us in their cookbook, or B, they're here and they're never going to be able to control them, or C, we've got an extra governmental agency controlling, and if you talk, we'll kill you and your family.
	Who knows what they said to him?
	You've really got to think about it, though, to get a man like Carter sobbing, head in hands, it's got to be really bad.
	Whatever.
	I mean, Jimmy Carter was and is an extremely intelligent man.
	He is, yes.
	Highly, highly intelligent, and I don't think that he would crack that easily.
	Something got to him.
	But what we do know, on the official record, is that by September of 1977, he had basically given up the game.
	He met with a fellow named Eric Gary, who at the time was Prime Minister of the little nation of Grenada, which was a country that America invaded under the Reagan years.
	In the late 70s, Gary was the Prime Minister, and he was a UFO witness himself, and he was the gung-ho guy at the time who wanted the United Nations to officially recognize UFOs and have a study group, and Gary was getting attention.
	So, Carter met with him in September of 1977.
	We know this, and we don't know everything that was said.
	But after that, basically, the U.S.
	policy on the Grenada Initiative was essentially to kill it.
	The U.S.
	and Britain subverted it, so that never went anywhere.
	So, I think what happened is that Carter got himself into a position where he probably didn't realize just how deep into it he had stepped.
	And I think was briefed in the middle of the year and realized, oh man, I cannot go forward with this.
	Can you even imagine if you were given that talk, that briefing, what could be bad enough to cause you to begin to shed tears?
	I can imagine.
	I have a couple of these stories, actually.
	Not simply of presidents, but of undersecretaries and other individuals who talked, and the stories became known to me.
	But what would be said is... Well, you know, another one came to Ben Rich, by the way, who is the head of Lockheed Skunk Works, from Kelly Johnson, supposedly.
	This is told to Rich as his third hand.
	But Kelly Johnson said the same thing to Rich, which was like, you know, the truth on this is awful, horrible, terrifying.
	The public can never know it's that bad.
	So what could it be?
	Well, one thing could be that, you know, there are beings here that would probably terrify the hell out of most of us.
	You know, you mentioned Whitley Strieber a couple of times.
	I know Whitley surely well, too.
	And one of the most salient things that Whitley said about these other beings, in my opinion, Well, it's just how not up to speed we are in dealing with them.
	You know, he said, like, when you're dealing mind to mind with these beings, it's almost like your soul is stripped naked, like you're just not able to connect.
	I mean, you're like a cowering dog in front of a frightening human being.
	So, his opinion is that we just don't have the capacity to deal with these other beings.
	And what if that's true?
	How could we, as a species, as a civilization, relate to them when their very presence kind of disrupts our field, as it were, or disrupts our mind?
	I actually had Whitley break into tears during an interview, and you know, the poor guy has really, really taken a lot of ribbing, because he has told, he did particularly so, Richard, on my show, he came on brutal, Truth, and it really was brutal and somewhat embarrassing for him, and he's taken, frankly, a lot of undeserved heat for that.
	I have so much respect for Whitley.
	We have been very close friends and the way he played it, the truth he told, caused me to I get very angry with the people who do that to him.
	They should read his work, because he's one of the most thoughtful people out there.
	I mean, aside from anything else he has to say, he's actually one of the deep thinkers in this field that we really need.
	Yes, sir.
	I've got to break here.
	We'll be right back.
	Richard Dolan is my guest, Midnight in Progress.
	For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcroft.
	A city with no people sounds like a post-apocalyptic nightmare.
	But this is M-City, a fake metropolis sprawling across 32 acres of land situated at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.
	The test environment officially opened this month and was formed as a controlled setting to test out driverless cars, complete with connected roads, traffic lights, and pedestrianized areas.
	It makes sense to test out the driverless cars in real yet human-free scenarios before the modern technology is applied in real life.
	There are bridges, tunnels, unpaved streets, roundabouts, faded markings on roads, and even graffiti on street signs.
	The realism is to ensure that even something seemingly minor, such as graffiti obscuring a sign, doesn't impact how automated vehicles handle road situations.
	Working with the Michigan Department of Transportation, the university hopes that there will be 20,000 connected driverless cars on the street of Michigan by 2021.
	Well, we've had a constant stream of brand new information about Pluto in the past few weeks, and fortunately for Pluto enthusiasts everywhere, there's plenty more to come.
	The revelations continue with icy plains of Pluto and its atmosphere, which we can only see when looking back at the dwarf planet towards the Sun.
	Pluto is covered in a fascinating array of geological features.
	Images show that a sheet of nitrogen ice flowed along the surface and still might be flowing.
	Even though the ice is made of nitrogen, not water, it bears similarities to glacier movements on Earth.
	At Pluto's temperatures of negative 390 degrees Fahrenheit, these ices can flow like a glacier.
	In the southernmost region of the heart, adjacent to the dark equatorial region, it appears that the ancient, heavy cratered terrain has been invaded by much newer ice deposits.
	You might have thought the fun was all over once New Horizons passed behind Pluto, but there's still a host of exciting discoveries to ponder.
	From the backside, Pluto is completely dark, nearly indistinguishable from the blackness of space.
	But the sun impressively illuminates a gorgeous haze around the planet.
	For more detailed coverage on any story that you hear, or if you have a tip or suggestion, visit us at darkmatternews.com.
	The Kremlin says its new Nimble satellites are just for communications.
	The 95-foot-tall, 118-ton rocket booster, an unarmed version of a Cold War nuclear-tipped missile, 75 miles above Earth's surface, the rocket's nose cracked open and its payload spilled out.
	The rocket carried Rodnik communications satellites.
	It's customary for Rodnik satellites to deploy in threes, but in notification to the United Nations, Moscow listed four spacecraft inside the Krispis rocket.
	This discrepancy was strange, and it got stranger.
	Rodnick satellites, like most orbital spacecraft, don't have engines and can't move under their own power.
	So it came as quite a shock to some observers on the ground when the rocket's fourth satellite, designated Cosmos 2491, moved, propelling itself into a slightly different orbit.
	Whatever Cosmos 2491 was, it wasn't some innocuous communications satellite.
	And over the next year and a half, Russia launched two more of the mysterious maneuvering spacecraft, each time sneaking into orbit as part of a routine commsat launch.
	Moving across orbital planes, the spacecraft, which are apparently the size of a small refrigerator, are able to get really close to other satellites.
	As close as, say, a few dozen feet.
	And if they can get that close, the little robots could spy on, hijack, or even destroy other satellites.
	Cosmos 2491 and the other satellites might be space weapons, the likes of which few other nations possess.
	And if so, they could upset the orbital balance of power in a time when government agencies, armies, scientists, and
	everyday people in the United States, especially, depending on satellites for communication,
	surveillance, science, and navigation.
	Sound of rocket engine.
	Sound of rocket engine.
	Here's one question John sends me by computer.
	I'd be interested in his opinion of a memo from President Kennedy to the CIA suggesting their sharing of information with the Soviet Union about ten days prior to his assassination.
	Yes, great.
	That's a fascinating memo, and I believe the date of that is November 11th, 1963.
	I don't have it right in front of me, but I'm somewhat familiar with this.
	Kennedy did.
	This is a confirmed memo.
	We learned about this less than ten years ago, I think maybe five, six years ago, when this came to light.
	And in it, Kennedy talked very plainly to the Central Intelligence Agency about the reality of UFO reports that
	could be confusing to American and Soviet military intelligence.
	In other words, the fear – this is something that was discussed incidentally by American UFO researchers at the
	time as a reason and secrecy.
	And the fear is that these UFOs could be mistaken for enemy missiles and we need to have open acknowledgement of these
	so that a UFO doesn't start World War III.
	Sure.
	That's what American ufologists are saying.
	And Kennedy's memo kind of worked along the same type of argument, basically saying we need to coordinate these UFO sightings with the Soviets so that we don't have
	any kind of confusion.
	And this was dated November 11th, 1963. That's 11 days before he was assassinated in Dallas in 1963.
	Yeah, exactly. And what became then of the memo?
	There's no record of what response this memo received.
	I have gone on to guess an assumption that it goes to the CIA and they sit on it for a couple of weeks.
	That's easy to do, even on a member of the president, unless he's demanding an answer the next day, which this did not do.
	They sat on it, and then the next thing you know, no more President Kennedy, and no more memo to worry about.
	You've been a lot of that.
	For example, I remember when our government virtually told us that, well, you know, the Roswell files are missing.
	Oh, that's right.
	Back in 1994-95, the General Accounting Office, which is the investigative body of Congress, on behalf of congressman stephen ship of new mexico's is a
	very important story it is that's right you were you were you know uh...
	uh... really involved in a great in the night that yes absolutely and uh...
	you know rosswell was just on some kind of getting some forward momentum at that
	time and um... here's stephen ship of new mexico uh...
	By the way, he was working to some extent with Don Schmidt, who we were talking about earlier.
	Right.
	On that matter.
	And Schiff said, look, you know, this is a legitimate issue to look into to see if there's anything that we can learn about it.
	And he asked for records of the Roswell Army airfield from 1947.
	Any communications to and from the base?
	And these should be available through Freedom of Information.
	And in fact, before he even asked the GAO to investigate, he went to the Air Force and they told him some expletives and basically said, go bleep in your hat.
	That's a direct quote.
	So Schiff was completely stonewalled by the Pentagon.
	And he thought, well, I'll go to Congress.
	I'll go to the GAO.
	That's what they're there for.
	They're supposed to investigate on behalf of Congress.
	And they said they would try.
	And they did try.
	And what they found was that the communication records pertaining to the Roswell Army Airfield from I think late 1946 into early 1948 or 49 were missing.
	into early 1948 or 49, I have to look at my records, were missing, they were gone.
	And that there was no explanation as to why they were missing and they should not legally
	have been missing.
	But that specific period of time, those records, all of them were gone.
	And these are records that really would have shed important light on what happened in Roswell in the summer of 1947.
	So, yeah, you've got obvious obstruction here.
	And they just get away with it.
	Well, that was going to be the next question.
	How did they get away with just saying, I'm sorry, they're missing?
	I think they get away with it, Art, because we live in a society, we call it a republic, we call it a democracy, but it's really not what it is.
	And I think as the years go by, the decades go by, those people who wield the power become more and more arrogant in their handling of it, and I think they realize that they really are not repercussions for what they say and what they do.
	I mean, we talked earlier about narco-trafficking.
	It's not just me who believes that narco-trafficking is deeply involved in the U.S.
	government.
	There's a lot of analysis that says this.
	And there's no repercussions there.
	There's no repercussions on the criminal banking fraud and the derivatives fraud that goes on.
	I mean, that's our world.
	And this is also the world within the United States National Security State, as I've come to call it.
	Again, it's true.
	It's like that movie Alien.
	Remember in the first Alien movie, where the creature comes out of the guy's chest?
	Oh, yeah.
	And he dies.
	It's a gruesome scene.
	But that's like us.
	I mean, you have the old American republic, which is the dead body, and out of it springs this national security empire.
	That really is the new incarnation of the United States.
	Well, we live in this world of the 24-hour news cycle.
	And then our news propaganda cycle, it's really, I think, designed to pacify most of us, in my opinion.
	Miley Cyrus' twerking is the headline, or Caitlyn Jenner's transgender.
	I mean, this is the headline.
	I think we can see that we're dealing with distractions.
	I know.
	Mark in Pennsylvania recalls that you interviewed a 77-year-old man facing kidney failure.
	And he did tell you what he knew about Roswell.
	Is the man still alive and what did he tell you?
	He is still alive.
	His health, he's been for the past year or more been placed into a nursing home because his family's been unable to care for him.
	This is on YouTube.
	Anyone can look at it.
	You can look up on YouTube.
	They call it dying CIA officer testifies about UFOs.
	He wasn't a CIA officer.
	He wasn't even a CIA employee.
	He worked in U.S.
	Army Signal Intelligence in the late 1950s and claimed... And by the way, he was interviewed years ago by Linda Moulton Howe, back in the late 90s.
	And Linda knows his story very well.
	I interviewed him in early 2013, way up in northern Minnesota, which is where he lives.
	Right.
	Um, there were a few times when I interviewed this man that I actually was afraid he was going to die in front of me.
	His health was that bad.
	It was actually really, really frightening at times.
	He was a sweet man and I genuinely liked him.
	He told a story that is very difficult to prove and really difficult to corroborate.
	And so for that reason, I'm careful about it to this day.
	On the other hand, I have a hard time thinking that he was lying to me.
	And what he said was that back in the late 50s, he was a young man.
	He was assigned to work for underneath a man who was a CIA station chief in the U.S., even though CIA was supposed to be only international.
	That was never solely true, he said, and they had a U.S.
	component.
	And his job was to analyze UFO photographs coming in from overseas.
	That was his initial job.
	That morphed into him and his boss being sent, supposedly, by President Eisenhower to go to what we call Area 51.
	Because Eisenhower, according to the story, was frustrated in his attempts to get information about the ET program that was there.
	Got tired of being stonewalled and said, you guys are going to find out.
	If you do not find out, I will send in the army to invade the area.
	What he claimed is that he went in with his boss and there were two other CIA people with him accompanied by a local Area 51 officer who gave them a tour.
	This man said he saw a Roswell craft.
	He said he saw, this would be in 1959, a live There is a reason that the legal world gives way more weight to dying declarations, or people who even think they're dying.
	There's a reason for that.
	that's according to this man uh...
	that's gigantic and you know it's a pretty you know there is, I'm sorry Richard, there is a reason that the
	legal world gives
	way more weight to dying declarations or people who even think they're dying
	there's a reason for that people tend not to lie when they're dying
	that was my sense of this man And the other thing that I will add is that I didn't just meet him, I met his son-in-law, who I really liked his son-in-law.
	His son-in-law was a seminary student.
	An older man, but he was a seminary student, so he was doing religious studies.
	These are church-going people.
	Not that I'm particularly church-going myself, but I respect people who do that, and I think there is something about the personality of these types of individuals, and the son-in-law knew his father-in-law's story inside and out, and had known it for years, and all he was able to say is, look, I believe the old man, and I believed him for years.
	So, you've got all of that.
	It would be nice if we were able to find any kind of further confirmation of, let's say, plan to invade Area 51.
	Apparently he was given enough information by them that he decided, I guess, I won't
	do that.
	Who knows?
	I mean, this may be forever one of these stories that just clouds the field and we may not
	be able to get a confirmation on it, but I will just say that my personal interaction
	with this man was such that I don't believe he was lying.
	Could he have been confabulating?
	The man was on meds.
	He was on painkillers.
	He was in serious physical pain.
	Could it have clattered in his judgment?
	Sure.
	I mean, I suppose it could have, but I don't think he was lying to me.
	All right.
	You're pretty familiar, I'm sure, with what Bob Lazar has had to say about Area 51.
	Yeah.
	I'm a believer in Lazar's fundamental story.
	I guess I'll just state that for the record.
	Good.
	It sort of underwrites what you just said, in a way, at least some of it does, that that stuff is there.
	Do you think it's still there, Richard?
	Probably, you know, Groom Lake, at least south of Area 51, excuse me, S4, south of Area 51, I think.
	Yeah, I think there's an underground facility there.
	I think that there are many underground facilities actually throughout the United States.
	Technology's been there for years, and I think that there is one there.
	I got the chance to meet Bob Lazar, finally, just less than a year ago in Phoenix at the International UFO Congress, briefly, but it was nice to meet him.
	George Knapp, a friend of mine, introduced us, and Lazar actually gave a much better explication of a lot of what his experience was when he was there back in 1988-89.
	And yes, I thought he was credible to me. I think most people who listened to him
	thought he was credible as well.
	For many years, Stanton Friedman, who I consider a friend and a colleague,
	has always been a little unhappy with me. I think very unhappy with me because I
	do credit Lazar's story, but what can I say?
	I do.
	I dreaded researching it for my second volume of UFOs in a National Security State.
	There's so many minefields in the UFO subject, and Lazarus' story is certainly one.
	But after I dove into it, I became acquainted, very acquainted with it.
	I feel that he's not a liar, and I feel that, um, I think he was telling the truth as he understands it.
	Well, there's one measure that I use, you know, I've been interviewing for years, forever it seems.
	And I've noticed that people who tend to not tell the truth, you know, the first time you hear their story, it's like, wow!
	And then the second time you hear their story, there are additional details.
	Okay, maybe.
	Third time you hear their story, there are amazing additional details.
	The thing about Bob Lazar is, He always tells the same stories.
	Exactly.
	And he's never cared to speculate beyond what he experienced.
	He's always been very careful.
	Even if you pull him, he doesn't.
	You're right.
	He's not afraid to say, I don't know.
	He said that many times.
	And he's just right.
	He's never gone.
	He said that he saw a number of flying discs.
	He saw what he called the sports model UFO.
	And he is very, very explicit and very particular about it.
	Well, my feeling is that stuff is still there.
	It would be hard to move.
	It would be dangerous to move.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I agree completely with that.
	And it's just over the hill from me.
	You know where I am, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	That's right.
	I can actually look at a mountain range and it's right over there.
	And, you know, we say, well, it's the most well-known secret place in the world, but it really is secret.
	I mean, it's still impossible to get there.
	Totally.
	And, you know, when you're underground, you can do anything you want, basically.
	And I think that's what they do.
	You bet your life.
	Literally.
	If you try to get there.
	This is part of the really important element of the UFO Mystery, which is a secret technology program, of which S4 is a part of, and I'm sure there are other facilities that are a part of it.
	And I really think what they're trying to do, among other things, is weaponize this technology.
	Whether it's electromagnetic weapons, or electrical frequency, or high-powered microwaves, or propulsion technologies.
	material science, even mind control, I think, is one of the kinds of technologies that they're trying to weaponize based on their encounter with the UFO phenomenon.
	I think all of those are part of it.
	And to the people who have this technology, I think the stakes are very high because, you know, if you're America running a global empire, you can't let any rivals get into the game like Russia or anyone else.
	So they want those weapons?
	You know, that's an awfully good question.
	I guess we know a little bit about our own country and how we've responded and what we don't talk about and what we do talk about.
	But what about the rest of the world?
	The Soviets, for example.
	China.
	Do you think they have had encounters that rival the things that have occurred here?
	I think it's entirely possible.
	I think the Russians certainly have.
	I guess I'll just take the opportunity to plug a book I'm about to publish by two authors.
	One is a Russian, he's Anglicized, named Paul Stonehill, and Philip Mantle, a UK author, and they're doing a book on Russian USOs, Unidentified Submersible Objects, and this is, I think, the first ever study of this, and I'll have it out probably by the fall.
	But the fact is that the Russians have a long history.
	of spectacular encounters with UFOs.
	And during the breakup of the Soviet Union, we learned a lot about them.
	This was the real moment in Russian history where information came out.
	It was like their version of freedom of information.
	KGB files became available and much more.
	So, we know that there were some serious military encounters and they may have had their own versions of Roswell at places like Dalmogorsk in 1986 and a few others.
	So, yeah, I think that it's very likely that they have their own knowledge of this program and they may share or not share to some degree with the United States.
	That's a question I don't know the answer to.
	Chinese, probably the same thing.
	There was a story that came to me by a fellow named Scott Jones.
	He's still alive.
	Retired Navy pilot and was a former aide to this Rhode Island Senator, Claiborne Pell, who was very interested in UFOs for years.
	Kept it very quiet.
	Scott Jones, on behalf of Pell, one time went to China.
	This is early 90s.
	This is like before China went through their own major industrial revolution.
	But one of the reasons he actually went was to get a sense of Chinese UFO research, believe it or not.
	And he was impressed.
	He said they had a lot of PhDs, a lot of smart people doing sophisticated work.
	And he said, you guys are way ahead of anything that I'm aware of in American civilian UFO research.
	What are you waiting for?
	And the answer that came to him is they said, we're waiting for the US to take the lead on this.
	Really?
	That's what Jones said to me and probably to other people.
	That's early 90s.
	Now, who knows what the situation is today?
	I think Russia and China are wild cards in this.
	I speculate that... I don't think that they have a real motivation any more than America to give up the UFO secret, but you never know.
	I think the real problem that any of these nations have in giving up the secret is oil.
	I mean, you know, you give up the secret.
	You say, yes, some of these UFOs actually are not ours.
	They are using revolutionary technology.
	One of the first questions that's going to be out of the gate is, well, what's their source of energy?
	It's obviously not high octane petroleum.
	Right.
	That's going to take them from point A to point B. It's going to be something better.
	Whatever that source is, implicit in the answer to the UFO mystery is a post petroleum civilization.
	And that is such a massive Transformation.
	And Russia, I don't really think, has any more of a motivation than America.
	All right.
	All right.
	I've got to hold you.
	Hold it right there.
	Stand by.
	I'm sorry.
	I have these absolute deadlines.
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm going to be playing this game on my Xbox 360.
	With the sun, you lose the sun.
	And the day to come is longing for you.
	Longing for you.
	Longing for you.
	Thanks for watching!
	Midnight Matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness, like Art Bell.
	To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	Sometimes you want to hear the rest of the story.
	Sometimes you want to hear the rest of the song.
	Hi, everybody.
	I am Art Bell.
	My guest is Richard Dolan, and in this last hour, I would like to open the lines.
	Now, this will take a slight bit of explanation, as we are new.
	As you well know, we're very new.
	So, to ask a question, to call us, number one, I would suggest at your first opportunity that you put Skype on your telephone.
	Got a smartphone?
	Apple, Android, whatever.
	Put Skype on your phone, and then kind of try to call us, and by that I mean Put in, if you're in North America, America, Canada, MITD 51.
	That's the way to get us on Skype.
	MITD 51.
	And then it'll be on your list of people you call and you can punch it up at any time.
	If you're outside of North America, too simple, you put in MITD 55.
	MITD 55.
	Beyond that, We have a public line, so if you have a question for Richard, here is the number.
	Area code 952-225-5278.
	Once again, 952-225-5278.
	Richard, we will go to the phones in a moment.
	Once again, 952-225-5278.
	Richard, we will go to the phones in a moment.
	I want to find out, though, if you want to finish a thought or, you know, get another one out before we do.
	Oh, gosh, I don't know.
	I've really enjoyed my time here with you, Art.
	We've had a lot of different things we've been talking about.
	I think the UFO subject really does constitute the greatest mystery of our time.
	I've been saying this for a while lately.
	I really believe it's true.
	I say it because I think it affects every facet of human civilization that really matters.
	Our politics, our science, who we are existentially, that is what are human beings, vis-a-vis any other beings that are here looking at us.
	The nature of space-time reality itself, I mean there are just so many leading edge issues that this subject of UFOs touches upon.
	And the fact that it gets really no love from the establishment media tells me that there's something very, very significant going on.
	You know, you've got this very important topic and it is absolutely forbidden to this day to get a serious hearing on the mainstream.
	I mean, there's some cable stations, History Channel, Sci-Fi, that'll do a UFO documentary, but really nothing for the establishment What I like to call the official reality.
	Right.
	The major networks, things like that, they will not touch it.
	It is not part of that reality.
	All right.
	And that's a problem.
	All right.
	Let's do it.
	Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Can you hear me?
	Yes, I hear you.
	Who is this?
	Who were you expecting?
	This is Art Bell.
	Richard Dolan is my guest.
	Right?
	Oh, hey, Art.
	This is Scotty.
	scottie uh...
	well as the president on air I didn't expect it.
	Well, when you're dialing, you should be prepared to, I don't know, do something, like ask a question.
	You know what happens to people?
	They freeze.
	They actually get through.
	They're not ready, and they freeze.
	Richard Dolan, are you related to James Dolan?
	Not to my knowledge.
	Who is James Dolan?
	I believe he's part owner of the Knicks, right?
	Oh gosh, yeah, I wish that would be nice.
	There's a Charles Dolan who owns, I think it's Cablevision or something like that on Long Island.
	No, in fact, my Dolan family, I can tell you, my father, his name is also Richard T. Dolan,
	is the only one in his family with that name.
	Everyone else that he's related to has a different last name.
	My dad grew up not even knowing his father.
	Hey, you were talking about UFOlogy, right?
	Yes.
	You're a UFO guy?
	That's what we've been talking about all night.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Can I tell you a quick story?
	You may.
	Yeah, I used to be in the Navy.
	One time I was in the...
	Most people can't.
	northern arabian gulf you know we were supporting uh...
	you know during uh... operation enduring freedom and uh...
	i just thought three streetlights just streak across the sky
	you know i'm asses i mean something i cited
	uh...
	i can't really explain it you know most people can say they have a siding in a
	they can explain uh... there are a number of sightings uh...
	that have been reported.
	via the US military from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
	Even on YouTube, you can find a lot of soldiers with recording night vision,
	seeing some really bizarre things, what those could be.
	I mean, one of the things that researchers have to keep in mind is that classified drone technology
	is, I think, really getting to be off the charts advanced.
	Doesn't mean that these sightings aren't interesting, but particularly in a military context,
	it's almost impossible to tell what you're dealing with these days.
	It's true.
	Um, all right, let's, let's try, uh, Kurt on Skype.
	Hello, Kurt.
	You're on with Richard Dolan.
	No way.
	Yes way.
	Oh my goodness.
	I'm gonna... I'm gonna shoot...
	I'll...
	Okay, go ahead.
	Have you ever read, uh, Ezekiel chapter one?
	The Bible?
	Yeah.
	Are you talking about Ezekiel's sighting, the famous wheel?
	Yes, the wheels in the sky, and colored lights, and crazy looking features.
	Actually, that's kind of an interesting direction to go, in a way.
	Richard, what do you think?
	Yeah, the passage that the call is referring to, I don't have it right in front of me, but I think many people interested in this have read it.
	I've read it.
	In Ezekiel, he has a vision of a particular structure coming from the heavens, operated, I think, by four angels and four celestial beings.
	Right.
	One of the interesting things about that, back in the 60s, there was a fellow named William, I think, Blumenthal, or Blumenreich, or something, who said, well, this is all nonsense.
	He was an engineer.
	And he said, I'm going to prove that this is nonsense.
	And what he ended up doing is, based on what he read in the Ezekiel passage, he realized he was able to build an interesting arrow structure, I guess, and became a believer.
	And he wrote a book called, I think, Something like building Ezekiel's Wheel or something like that.
	I've got it in my library.
	So, it's interesting.
	I mean, you know, the thing about the ancient UFO connection, there are some very fascinating and suggestive stories in our ancient history about what we might call UFOs.
	And there were no UFO investigative groups back then.
	There was no one taking reports from witnesses.
	What we have are some scattered stories.
	And a few rock paintings and a few paintings and oral traditions.
	So it's really not a lot to go on.
	They're just stories.
	But I would say some of them are interesting, for sure.
	Not just Ezekiel is one out of ancient Egypt from the dynasty of Akhenaten.
	I think it was Hattashput, one of the few female pharaohs of the time, or she was in that family.
	And there was a case of a star-like or a sun-like object appearing for several days and scaring, terrifying the Egyptians, and they made offerings to it.
	No one really figured this out.
	There's a Russian case from the 17th century that has been written about by a number of people, including Jacques Vallée.
	1663, in which in a remote village, People were terrified to see this object come over their village, leave and come back.
	It was a bright, burning kind of thing.
	It killed the fish, burned people.
	It seemed to be intelligently controlled, and it was written about, and it was found in the records of a monastery in the year 1800, and it was just this forgotten story.
	And there's a number of these types of things, and the question is, what are they?
	The Vatican has been saying interesting things.
	Progressively more interesting things about the possibility of life elsewhere.
	I think they're covering their bets, honestly.
	I think the Vatican... Look, they're a 2,000-year-old institution.
	I do think that they've had some secrets that they've acquired over the years, and maybe they are covering their bets.
	I do wonder.
	Mike, you're on the air with Richard Dolan.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric.
	It's a pleasure to talk to you.
	Thank you.
	I have my pants that you're hiding.
	We've been listening to you both for 20 years, and it's Such a delight.
	We used to listen to that other show with George Snorri, but now we're having to stay awake and it's terrible.
	Nevertheless, our question is with regards to Bob Lazar.
	He has a pretty amazing story, for what it sounds like.
	Stan Friedman, who calls him a fraud.
	I was wondering what both you, Art, and I know you've interviewed Bob in the past, and Mr. Dolan, what do you think about Bob Lazar and his story and his credibility?
	We actually just sort of just covered that, to be honest with you, and I think his story has a very great deal of credibility with me, because I have interviewed him a number of times.
	The story never changes, and So, we did just cover that.
	You must have missed it.
	Yeah, and I essentially had the same opinion.
	I wrote about Bob Lazar at some length in Volume 2 of UFOs in the National Security State, and I really sweated that one out, by the way.
	I put about 10 pages into Bob Lazar's story, and I think he's not lying.
	I think he's telling the truth as he understands it.
	That does not mean that everything he told is exactly scientifically correct.
	It is entirely possible.
	We didn't get into this art.
	I think it's possible that Bob Lazar was intentionally given some information that may not have been true.
	I do think it's possible he may have been psychologically profiled as someone who might be inclined to talk.
	This is only my own speculation.
	Because I think that actually the mechanism that he describes of the propulsion, which he talks about in Element 115, jokingly referred to by physicists as unobtainium because
	it's so impossible to get.
	Whereas you have alternate ideas about flying discs that have it relying on things like zero-point energy,
	a totally different type of mechanism.
	My guess is that if it was zero-point energy, this is a story that came out in 1988, by the way,
	at Lockheed's Hellendale facility by a guy named Brad Sorensen.
	If that's the case, then if you have a guy like Lazarus saying, well, it's element 115,
	any competitor trying to build their own flying saucer would think, oh man, forget it.
	How do we get Element 115?
	Let's just give up.
	In other words, Lazarus' story could actually be, without him even realizing, a form of disinformation designed against competitors.
	Just a thought.
	He saw what he saw, heard what he heard.
	In Ohio, you're on the air.
	It's midnight, hi.
	Yeah, hi Art.
	This is Jerry from Ohio.
	Hi Jerry.
	Hi.
	I got a call, a question for Richard.
	Okay, turn off your device please.
	It'll confuse you mightily and me a little.
	Okay.
	Okay, excellent.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, I was wondering if he's familiar with Cinchin and I'm kind of curious about us going into Iraq the last time and the museum there being raided and I would believe a lot of Sumerian texts missing.
	How do you feel about how this relates to, you know, the UFO and possibly what's really going on?
	Yes, Zachariah Sitchin recently died a couple of years ago.
	For anyone who doesn't know, he was best known as someone who Was able to read ancient Sumerian cuneiform texts, which is not something that everyone can read.
	And did, I guess, what we can call a literal interpretation of the stories that he read.
	He didn't interpret them as myth, he interpreted them as possibly history.
	And so this had to do with the race that he talked about, known as the Anunnaki, which arrived almost 500,000 years ago, and on and on.
	I'm of mixed feelings about Sitchin, and in fact, I do think that there have been some very strong critiques of his work.
	In particular, there is a cylinder seal he talked a lot about, known as VA-243, in which Sitchin said this has a sun-like image, with lots of planets, and in fact, many more planets than the Sumerians were supposed to have known about, and this is one of his pieces of evidence.
	alternately interpreted however and actually my friend and colleague Michael Heiser's talked a
	bit about this and he said the
	sun image on that seal is actually not the Sumerian symbol for the sun
	It was only a star, as are the surrounding circles.
	I don't think it is what Sitchin interpreted.
	In other words, at least there's a real good reason.
	There are claims that the U.S.
	went into Iraq for esoteric reasons having to do with these ancient mysteries.
	I think the U.S.
	went into Iraq for a lot of reasons.
	Certainly theft is the biggest one.
	but you know, theft over some of the ancient things in the Baghdad Museum.
	Well, that museum was systematically plundered during the first week of the US occupation
	and no one stopped it.
	This was a huge news story at the time.
	I don't know if people remember this.
	And the people running the museum were pleading with the world and pleading with the Americans
	who had like a tank and a detachment like two blocks over during the whole raiding of
	that museum.
	And no one did a thing.
	They allowed that museum to be picked clean by people who knew exactly what they were doing.
	So in fact, there's a lot of reasons you might steal out of the Baghdad Museum, not simply esoteric secrets, but maybe there's something to it.
	A lot of people.
	James, you're on the air.
	Yes.
	The master, you are back on the radio.
	It's so good to hear your voice again.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Richard, you are also one of the best.
	Thank you for everything that you've done.
	We've tried to learn a lot from you guys.
	It's just great to be able to talk to you.
	Thanks very much.
	Thank you.
	Hey, I jumped in a little late.
	I'm not sure if you guys touched on MJ-12, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts on whether you figured that was legitimate or not.
	Actually, good one.
	No, we haven't.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it's a great question.
	That's another of the minefields, one of the dangerous mines in the UFO field.
	My take on MJ-12, and again for anyone who doesn't know, these are documents that were leaked or intentionally leaked back in the 1980s.
	That were purportedly a briefing to President-elect Dwight Eisenhower on the alien extraterrestrial situation.
	And then, you know, let's just add that during the 1990s, a large number of documents that are collectively known as the Majestic Documents also came out, and Ryan and Bob Wood primarily have done a great amount of research on those.
	My take on the MJ-12 documents is that They are probably a form of disinformation, but saying that
	is not the same as saying that they're lies.
	Disinformation can't work if it's all lies. It has to be credible, it has to be believable.
	So there's got to be things in there that are legitimate.
	My take on MJ-12 is that it was part of a way to disable the threat that the UFO community was posing at that moment.
	You had the Freedom of Information Act of the 1970s, which was really a threat.
	You also had crash retrieval stories coming out in the late 70s.
	Not just Roswell, by the way, but others.
	And I think this was a one-two punch that actually was a threat.
	So now enter the MJ-12 documents in the 1980s.
	uh... which we're still arguing about to this day thirty years later
	uh... i think it is entirely possible that these were either derived from uh...
	from real and existing documents uh... modified in ways to make them not believable or
	maybe just to create a whole cloth Bottom line... The majestic documents that follow, I'm not as inclined to dismiss.
	I think some of those are probably legit.
	That's my opinion.
	All right.
	Hold tight.
	We'll be right back.
	So, bottom line, disinformation.
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Marvin.
	I'm Marvin.
	This time I'll get the fool drunk.
	She's trying hard to recreate what had yet to be created.
	Once in her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic tear.
	Never coming near what he wanted to say, only to realize that what he ever really was, she had a place in his life.
	Where are those happy days they seemed so hard to find?
	I'm not a fool for you.
	I tried to wait for you, but you have closed your mind.
	Whatever happened to our love?
	I wish I understood.
	I don't understand It used to be so nice
	It used to be so good So when you near me darling
	Can't you hear me?
	It's so good At night in the desert
	Exclusively on The Dark Knight We've also got, of course, Skype access for you.
	Um, North America, get us at MITD51, MITD51.
	Call Art, that's 1-952-225-5278.
	Those are the, that's the public number actually.
	We've also got, of course, Skype access for you.
	North America, get us at MITD51, MITD51.
	The rest of the world, MITD55, MITD55.
	Ring us up, and we'll be happy to talk to you.
	Richard Dolan, obviously a brilliant guy in the world of ufology, talking about exactly that.
	Richard, welcome back.
	Let's see if we can cover some territory.
	Thanks.
	It's really been a lot of fun.
	I really love doing this show with you.
	Thank you.
	You're a good guest.
	Lexington, Texas, is that right?
	Hi, this is Mary.
	Hi, Mary.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you doing?
	Just fine.
	Good.
	Well, it's really nice to talk to you and to your guest, Richard.
	And I have a real quick UFO story to tell you.
	Okay.
	On January 7th, about 2 a.m.
	in the morning, my husband had just gotten home from running the track.
	He works late.
	We began to hear a really loud rumbling noise.
	And it just continued.
	And it was uneven.
	It wasn't smooth like a jet or anything.
	And it just got louder and louder.
	It sounded like it was passing right overhead.
	So we ran outside and looked at the sky.
	And at first we didn't see anything, but whatever it was sounded massive.
	And we finally saw lights moving towards the northwest.
	There were a couple of white lights that were widely separated, kind of in a vertical line, and my husband, my night vision's not too good, but he said there were some smaller red lights on there.
	And the noise that it was making was something neither one of us had ever heard before, and he's very interested in aircraft and that sort of thing.
	Okay, so not a helicopter?
	No, it was massive, because by the time it got far enough away from us to the northwest, the width of the light was so large even from a distance
	that it had to be huge.
	And the closest I can get to the sound, I was listening to different things on YouTube,
	the closest I can get to the sound was the noise that the mothership made when it came
	over the mountain in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
	Mary, did you say where you live or where you were when you saw this?
	Yes, I live right between Austin and College Station in Lexington, Texas.
	Were you able to see a shape or was it lights only or was your husband able to see a shape?
	No, we just saw lights and what was weird was when it seemed right overhead, we couldn't see anything.
	And that was what was so strange. We didn't really see much of anything until it moved towards the northwest.
	And then we saw the light.
	And it was January 7th.
	January 7th, about 2 a.m. in the morning.
	Well, I think it's fascinating. I mean, in my view, there's...
	It could be something that they made, it could be something that we made.
	I'm of the opinion that there's a substantial, highly classified, what often I've called a breakaway civilization, that is, classified civilization that's so advanced that they're basically different from our own, and they're using radical technology that includes black triangles, I think in some cases, and maybe other types of crafts.
	What I would say is that there is a massive infrastructure that is beyond what we are supposed to be dealing with in our day-to-day life, and that infrastructure, some of it belongs to human beings, and I think some of it does not.
	There's a lot of activity, and you and your husband, I think, encountered it.
	Okay.
	All right, very quickly, Nancy, in Lincoln something, you're on the air.
	Yeah, this is Bill Cullen from Bellevue, Washington.
	Oh, it says Nancy, but okay.
	Okay.
	I have a question for Richard.
	Richard, could you comment on the story of President Eisenhower possibly meeting face-to-face with extraterrestrials?
	And also, could you tell us what you know of what you've heard of the Holloman landing?
	Yeah, those are both great things to discuss.
	The Eisenhower story actually leaked, or the version of it leaked, almost immediately back in 1954 by Really, the guy who was the art bell of his day, Frank Edwards, the radio man who was very involved in the flying saucer mystery at that time.
	Frank Edwards somehow got wind of the fact that Eisenhower went to Edwards Air Force Base and might have met with extraterrestrials.
	This was a rumor back then.
	There have been a number of other witnesses who have supported or corroborated that claim, that there was a very major event at Edwards and that it seemed to involve UFOs, extraterrestrials.
	There's no confirmation on this.
	I don't know.
	I actually can see the logic of it.
	1954 was just when the United States was about to start detonating hydrogen bombs.
	Orders of magnitude beyond the atomic bombs.
	Maybe this is what got their attention.
	There is a real possibility that they're interested in our nuclear technology.
	All right.
	Holloman, we're going to have to hold.
	And I think that that was a landing.
	A landing.
	All right.
	Well, we'll expand on that.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Last break and we'll be right back.
	Well, almost right back.
	Down on the river you're stopping your whole everything.
	A man is blowing Dixie, double ball time.
	For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
	Not a sport you'd usually associate with Japan.
	Golf had its true boom during the 1980s.
	However, the leisurely sport is seeing a recent decline in interest.
	So, what do you do with the land of many massive golf courses, long abandoned after golfers are no longer in play?
	Japanese electronics manufacturer, Kyocera, have a hole-in-one plan to turn these large expanses of open land into solar energy power sources.
	Nuclear energy has fallen out of favor with the population since the 2011 Fukushima disaster.
	Turning to solar may give the country an alternative, renewable, and environmentally friendly source of energy.
	A new Android hack can take over your phone without any interaction from you, and the vast majority of Android devices are vulnerable.
	Researchers at Zimperium Mobile Labs, where it was discovered by the Vice President of Platform Research and Exploitation, Joshua Drake.
	He claims that up to 95% of Android devices are vulnerable.
	To initiate the attack, the hacker sends a maliciously modified video message.
	They'd have near full access to your device, its storage, its camera, and microphone.
	It's said that the device may start processing the message without the user opening the message manually.
	They think the bug was introduced in Android 2.2, but Zemperium has tested it on builds as recent as the latest release Android 5.1 Lollipop.
	Devices running a build older than Jelly Bean 4.1 are said to be most vulnerable.
	However, Google only recently released a fix that can remove and prevent the bug with an over-the-air update.
	The bad news is it's up to device manufacturers to send out the patch, and that can take a while.
	If you've got an older phone that hasn't been updated in ages, as in the case of nearly 11% of active Android phones, it's feasible that it won't get a patch at all.
	At this point, it's not clear if there's anything Android users can do to protect themselves from this exploit.
	Is the Jade Helm 15 exercise involving hundreds of U.S.
	Special Operations troops that began this month in the Southeast really an exercise involving the use of artificial intelligence?
	Analysts say it's possible and that they believe JADE is an acronym for a Defense Advanced Research Project Agency.
	DARPA developed artificial intelligence quantum computing technology that is capable of producing holographic battlefield simulations.
	The technology they say is heading up the drill in order to master the human domain and learn to predict human responses.
	A YouTube user by the handle of Level9News has posted a 38-minute YouTube video explaining why she believes that Jade Helm is an alcentric exercise.
	Under the headline, Rise of the Machines, she wrote that Jade Helm is simply an artificial intelligence quantum computing technology that can produce the holographic battlefield simulations, and in addition, has the ability to use vast amounts of data being collected on the human domain to generate human terrain systems in geographic population-centric locations.
	All of this used as a means for identifying and eliminating targets, insurgents, rebels, or whatever labels that can be flagged as targets in a global information grid for network-centric warfare environments.
	In a possibly related story, Windows 10 to be released this month will be equipped with a virtual assistant called Cortana.
	This virtual assistant will automatically display the kind of thing you'd like, based upon your interest.
	This means that the virtual assistant will be analyzing your behavior.
	Second and most importantly is the fact that this virtual assistant does not limit itself in replying to simple questions, but can interact with you and even send an email.
	She's incredibly smart because her intelligence is based in the cloud, and she's scouring the internet, learning about everything.
	To listen to the complete and detailed report, visit darkmatternews.com.
	I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
	This is a story about a man who was in a car accident.
	He was driving in the middle of the road.
	He was in a car accident.
	He was in the middle of the drive-thru.
	And he rides in on the lift road up high.
	Mama's dancing, baby, on her shoulder.
	Son is sucking up molasses in the sky.
	What is happening is what's happening.
	All we want and more, we've been longing for.
	That's better than a little boy's smile.
	Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital.
	Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case is.
	one nine five two call art that's one nine five two two two five fifty two
	seventy eight richard dolan cutting through the bs
	good evening good morning good afternoon whatever the case is
	uh once again here's richard and uh holloman uh very quickly we've got it
	kind of cut off right we talked about that yeah Yeah, I think that...
	That actually I think did happen.
	That was a landing that probably occurred in April 1964.
	And in fact, it would have occurred one day after the very famous sighting of a landed craft by New Mexico policeman Lonnie Zamora, which There's been some speculation that there may have been a connection between those two, but anyway, there's a long time story, and this was another thing that leaked out right away.
	It came to researchers known as James and Coral Lorenzen, very prominent back in the 60s, that there was something that happened at Holloman, and it could have been the landing of some sort of craft This was discussed and even done in a documentary to some extent by Bob Emenager in a film he did back in the, I guess it was back in the 70s, and Bob's still around to talk about it.
	But I think that there very likely could have been an actual landing.
	It sounds crazy to someone who's never studied UFO history, I realize, but actually there are some Some reasons to credit these stories, I think.
	Okay.
	All I can go by is what it says on the phone.
	North Hollywood, I think.
	You're on the air.
	Yes, sir.
	I are, yep.
	My name's Ronald, and I'm actually in Los Angeles.
	I'm in Malibu right now.
	Okay.
	You know, Art, so I talked to you on the break, and I said that I had the solution, and I just wanted to get it out there because I think it's important.
	The solution to...
	To how we can secure all of the information about these questions that we've been asking.
	I know you didn't come back from retirement or vacation just to keep asking the same question over and over again.
	You got that right.
	We are all, we are questioned out.
	And I started thinking about that a while ago, and I decided to write a book.
	And if I can say the name of the book, I'll say it.
	But I wrote it in a book, which is available on Amazon.
	Shameless plug.
	All right, what's the name of the book?
	The second coming of the Messiah, about a Pentagon analyst who comes up with a solution to stop the global military-industrial complex and eradicate the monetary system.
	And the global military-industrial complex is all of the governments that are actually posing as governments, that are really corporations, and the word government actually translates into mind control.
	So the five-step solution is this.
	Everybody, step one, is on planet Earth, all human beings, because this is a human problem, especially with what's going on in Fukushima.
	All human beings, step one, secure their certificate of live birth.
	That gives us all control over our vessel again.
	Right.
	Step two, step two, we all secure the manufacturer's statement of origin for our automobiles.
	That gives us control over our vehicles.
	They can't tow those away from us anymore.
	When you buy your car, you just get a certificate of title, and then you sign away the MSO.
	Step three, everybody gets the great deed for their land.
	Now their land can no longer be taken away.
	Now on one day, everybody, even military and police, on step four, tear up their national ID card.
	This gets rid of the global military-industrial complex, because there are now no more corporations, because they have no more employees.
	And step five?
	Step five, burn all of the currency.
	Burn all of the currency, alright?
	Listen, don't burden yourself with step 5.
	Send it off to me.
	UPS.
	I'll give you an address.
	I'll just jump in real quickly.
	I thought the caller was talking about corporations essentially posing as nations, corporations posing as nations.
	I think that's right.
	I think we're in an era of basically transnational corporate control over our reality.
	We kind of touched on that earlier in the program.
	In terms of solutions, With respect to the caller, there are always people who come in with the solution to all of the world's problems, and I just don't think it's that simple.
	Never have.
	He's not the first, and I'm sure he won't be the last, to have solved how to fix all of it.
	Just like that.
	I just don't think it's going to happen.
	All right.
	Amy, you're on the air on Skype.
	Hi, Art.
	Amy here in the Midwest.
	Huge fan since I was a little girl.
	Thank you.
	Long story short.
	Can you hear me?
	Sure.
	Okay, long story short, now I'm into neuro research, and I hope to be a guest on your show someday, if not replace Leo.
	Did you say, Amy, did you say neuro research?
	Yes, yes, that is correct.
	Okay, you might make a, contact me by email.
	Alright, certainly.
	I just want to make a quick shout out to Chet, SkinnyLazy on Twitter, as well as all of my followers on Hunted Skeptic.
	So my question for Richard, Perhaps it will speak to your expertise on the subject matter of UFOs in the national security state.
	You mentioned a lot tonight about disinformation, credibility, NJ-12 and whatnot.
	According to some sources, your own pathways to disinfo started innocently with your involvement with the alleged Serpo hoax.
	That's alleged, that's what I've heard, that's what I've read.
	I've never been connected with Serpo at all.
	Never.
	Okay.
	I've never had a comment on it.
	I've never been involved in it.
	I've never had anything to do with it.
	Okay, well that was going to be my next question.
	I didn't know whether or not you were aware of your portrayal in Mark Pilkington's book, Mirage Men, and I wanted to know basically what you thought of that.
	Did he actually connect me to Serpo in that?
	I wasn't aware that he had done that.
	Don't quote me on that, but I do think your name did come up in association with that.
	Well, he interviewed me for that over a decade ago, and I actually do not know what I said for him in that documentary, but I think he did record me over ten years ago.
	But I can tell you, I've had no connection whatsoever to Serpo in any remote fashion whatsoever.
	DeSerbo documents arose about 10 years ago, I guess.
	They were popularized by Bill Ryan, who later became connected with Cary Cassidy and Project Camelot.
	They tell a fascinating story, but I've never said that they were legit, ever.
	Okay.
	All right, Amy.
	Thank you very much.
	Let's go, I don't know, let's go here to the phone.
	You're on the air.
	Hey, Art.
	How you doing, buddy?
	Doing fine.
	Where are you out of curiosity?
	I'm in Orlando.
	Orlando, Florida.
	Okay.
	Yes, sir.
	It's nice to talk to you.
	It's a real privilege, Art.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And Mr. Dolan, you there?
	Yeah, right here.
	Hey, nice to talk to you.
	I just wanted to ask you, Richard, a lot of stuff that I see on Facebook and on the Internet and stuff, they're talking about some kind of spiritual enlightening Uh, that's supposed to be coming towards September.
	Everybody's pointing to September.
	Uh, Niberu, I don't know if you're familiar with that.
	Yeah, he's right about that.
	Everybody's talking about September.
	Yeah, September, like, specifically, like, 24th, 25th, or something like that, and the Pope's here in town, or here in, you know, not in my town, but you know what I mean.
	Listen, isn't anyone, other than myself, tired of the predictions?
	Doesn't anyone but myself think that predictions are one of the banes of this field?
	We were supposed to have Ascension in 2012.
	Anyone remember that?
	Oh yeah, that didn't happen.
	You were supposed to have 51% positive karma, and then, hey, you would ascend after December 21, 2012.
	There was nearly a 10-year build-up for that one.
	A lot of wasted energy and time.
	There was supposed to be the Comet Elanine.
	This was promoted by Richard Hoagland, among other people, back in 2011.
	That was supposed to be Nibiru also, if you recall.
	This is such an old theme, and I would have thought That the 2012 ascension would have put all of that to rest.
	But no, apparently people have to continue to make their predictions over imminent salvation from galactic space brothers or what have you.
	And look, I'm just reminded of P.T.
	Barnum, a sucker is born every minute.
	It just never seems to change.
	Look, predictions are not what we really need to be about, okay?
	We need to really take a cold eye and look at the world around us, that includes the UFO situation, that includes a lot of other things, and deal with what we have to deal with, rather than waste our energies.
	And I really mean this.
	Maybe that's disinformation, alright?
	In other words, when you've got something really important going on, and people are continually being led down these fantasy paths that end up Giving us nothing.
	They give us nothing at all.
	Of course, one of these days, Richard, maybe they'll be right.
	And, you know, there'll be nobody around to say, I told you so.
	Well, if they're ever right, then we can all put our heads between our knees and kiss our butts goodbye.
	That's right.
	And it won't matter.
	But, no, the predictions, this is just a little pet peeve of mine.
	I mean, I'm at the point where I just, I used to laugh.
	I still laugh at them, but I think that they're actually a problem in this field.
	Well they are.
	Jordan, you're on the air on Skype.
	Hi.
	I just have two comments and then I'll take the answer off the air.
	My first comment is regarding the Philadelphia experiment and I wanted to see if he had any knowledge of maybe hyperspace was actually figured out there and maybe that was another reason why we were visited by UFOs and My second question was the WikiLeaks about the
	I'll deal with the second one first.
	WikiLeaks' connection to Antarctica UFOs, I have to admit I have not heard that.
	I would like to learn about that.
	That's something that is actually tangible that I can research to see whether or not that's true.
	This is the first time I'm hearing about it and for that reason I'm a little dubious about the validity of it, but I will just say I'll look into it.
	Relating to the Philadelphia Experiment, I never know what to make of some of these stories where there's just so much lore associated.
	I know the origin of the story, and it's very tough to know one way or another how true it is.
	I'm always most comfortable trying to deal with what I think is verifiable fact, that is government-archived information.
	Uh, not disputed, uh, not leaked, not anything like that.
	The Philadelphia Experiment is one of these stories where it's just, it's, uh, it's, you know, legend.
	Um, I don't know if it's true or not.
	Um, the same with the story that's connected to it, the Montauk Project story.
	I don't know if these have any truth or not to them.
	Uh, you've got people talking an interesting game, and that's about it.
	Nothing to support it.
	Okay.
	So, don't really know.
	Okay.
	Williamsport, somewhere, on the phone.
	You're on the air.
	Okay.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	My name is Ted, also known as Bomar.
	Richard, can I ask you a question about orange orbs?
	Yeah, please.
	Cool.
	Back in 69, July 2nd, I was hiking on a mountain.
	I didn't get into the Farragut, Idaho jamboree, and I was just goofing around on the mountains one evening.
	Orange orb came down.
	enveloped me I woke up about two hours later. Since then I haven't been able to read,
	but if I put a book under my pillow I know everything that's in the book.
	My IQ has been measured about 190, I've spent 13 years in college, I'm a high-energy nuclear
	engineer, theoretical mathematician, just a goof-off. Have you heard about
	this happening to other people?
	You had me at orange orb, and then you lost me at 190, so let me just Google it.
	No, no, it's my IQ.
	I know that's what you said. If you actually had an IQ of 190, you'd probably be one of the top ten
	most intelligent people in the entire world, and I mean if that's the case, then good for you.
	you.
	As far as the Orb goes, there are a lot of Orange Orb Uh, stories, uh, I've, I've gotten them from individuals that I know very well and that I, I know are truthful with me.
	Now, I think the orange orb phenomenon is real.
	There's, uh, they seem to be intelligent.
	They're actually, there's a number of these cases where there seems to be a telepathic kind of connection between the orb and the person to the extent that, uh, someone wakes up at like two in the morning and they have an urge to look out their bedroom window and voila, there's an orb out there.
	There's something going on.
	And I've heard these stories many times, not just a few times.
	So I think there's, this is a real thing.
	In terms of everything that you're saying it did to you or for you, I don't know how to comment on that.
	I'm not aware of anyone having experience with these things and they suddenly are no longer able to read, or if the orb somehow affects one's intelligence or anything like that.
	I don't know.
	That's something that's completely foreign to my research.
	I love people who say, I don't know, when they don't know.
	Here in Pahrump, Nevada, I think you're my first caller from Pahrump, Nevada.
	You're on air.
	Hello.
	How you doing?
	Good to have you back.
	This is Rob from Crump.
	Hi.
	How you doing?
	Fine.
	Question for Richard.
	Have you ever heard of a crab that looks like a cloud?
	A black cloud?
	Hmm.
	It didn't really have a... Well, there are cases of objects You know, people saying an object was disguised as a cloud, or it moved, but it looked like a cloud.
	A black cloud?
	I don't know.
	This was pretty distinct.
	I mean, I came out of my house the other day, and there was a beautiful blue sky, there was a couple of white, billowy clouds, and there was one black cloud, all by itself, and all the clouds were moving towards Area 51, northeast, and this one went the opposite way, and just disappeared.
	That's interesting.
	I would guess experiment.
	We do live in an area that just has sighting after sighting after sighting, Richard.
	This is an amazing area.
	There's no two ways about it.
	We're close to Area 51.
	That's a heck of an interesting thing.
	My go-to position wouldn't be UFO, but my go-to position would be some kind of U.S.
	military shenanigans.
	Absolutely.
	There are plenty of them out here.
	If you live here, you see it all the time.
	We're coming toward the end of the show, so I want to give you shameless plug time.
	Whatever you want to plug.
	Well, yeah.
	Every day I live, my life is like a blizzard.
	Every single day, there's no exception.
	I write and I publish.
	So I have a company called Richard Olin Press, and I publish my books, but also books by other really cool, fascinating authors.
	One is Dr. Bruce McAbee, very well known in the UFO field.
	Oh, yeah.
	He's publishing his second book this summer.
	I've got one coming out that is actually one of the most exciting books I've published in a long time by a fellow named Mike Cleland.
	on encounters but this is one of the most original books on encounters that's
	been done maybe since Whitley Streber's books and I'm not hyping it,
	I think this is really true
	on various types of bizarre synchronicities in the UFO encounter experience and
	I'm sure that'll make a big splash.
	I'm working on my own book, which is not a UFO book.
	I mean, I'm working on volume 3 of my National Security State series, but I'm also working on a history of what are known as false flag operations.
	This is a very big thing that I've been working on for the past 6-8 months.
	I think that we live in an era of false flags, actually, and what I'm trying to do is set out why I think we live in such an era and try to have an analytical approach so that we can identify them when they come down the road.
	But my website is richarddolandpress.com.
	A lot of my articles are there, books, YouTube videos and the like.
	All right.
	So, do you want to give out your personal cell phone number?
	Not yet.
	No.
	Okay, then we'll have to settle for what we got.
	It's been a pleasure having you on the air, and how about doing another show on False Flags?
	Oh, I'd be very happy to do that, Art.
	It's been an honor.
	It really has.
	You're a bright guy.
	Thank you, Richard.
	Thank you very much.
	Good night.
	And speaking of Richards, coming up next is RCH, Richard Hoagland, and he tells me he's going to be doing open lines tonight.
	That should really be something.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
	goodnight all the
	the the
	the How's the world we live in?
	Are we eating all the signs?
	Have we lost our intuition?
	Are we running out of time?
	Midnight in the desert And we're listening Ooh, we're listening And we're listening

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