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July 30, 2015 - Art Bell

02:38:05

Art Bell MITD - John Dvorak Life Beyond Earth

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	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	♪♪♪ From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I
	bid you all good evening.
	Good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be, wherever in the world you are, and that's pretty much the
	entire world.
	Welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
	My name is Art Bell, and let's do what I do in the beginning of all shows, the rules.
	We have two rules, no bad language, and only one call per show.
	I should have a third one.
	Make it interesting when you call.
	Also, take a big deep breath before you talk, it helps.
	I want to thank the usuals, Telos, the company, along with Joe Talbot here in Toronto that helps us make all this sound so good.
	And by the way, I hope it does tonight.
	We've got thunderstorms all around us.
	The desert is quaking with electrical activity.
	My webmaster, Keith Rowland, who has been there forever.
	Dr. J, my producer, all of you, the Belgab people, The I Love Art Bell people, or people who love Art Bell.
	It's so hard to say because it sounds so egotistical.
	The Midnight in the Desert people and all the other chat sites that are popping up all over the place.
	So stream guys, they're great.
	They get it out to you.
	LV.net, they get it to me and that lets me get it to you.
	And, of course, Peter Eberhardt, our sales guy.
	So that's all the thanks, I think.
	Go to artbill.com.
	Now, why am I telling you to go to artbill.com?
	Because we have a photograph there of how the White House is going to look about a year after Mr. Trump is elected.
	You might want to take a look at that.
	Oh, by the way, I'm going to be on the Tom Likas Show tomorrow.
	They have invited me to come and be part of whatever it is they do there, and it's some strange stuff, I guess.
	So I should fit right in.
	That'll be fun.
	That'll be at 4 o'clock Pacific tomorrow.
	All right, so we've got this barnacle-encrusted wing part, which Boeing is saying, yep, part of a 777, really could only be part of that 777 because it's the only one that's crashed out there.
	Can they trace it back and see where it really went down, if it went down on the line that they have, that curved line?
	I don't know.
	That's a reach, I think, for modeling.
	Anyway, they also picked up a suitcase today, a suitcase that belonged to perhaps somebody on that ill-fated flight.
	The mainstream thinking, and the mainstream talking head people, is what I should say, still think that it was a man-done deal.
	And it probably was.
	It made an awful lot of turns.
	NBC ran a very interesting article on China. 700 Successful cyber attacks on the U.S.
	this last year.
	Maybe we should get hold of Anonymous.
	I do have that contact, you know.
	And they should fight China.
	They could probably do it.
	I'm not sure how the NSA is doing, but maybe my friends at Anonymous really could make a difference.
	In one other story, and then we'll get to our guest who's going to be really something, Dr. Dvorak.
	Well, I'll get to that in a moment.
	A swarm of UFOs, and this is on artbell2, artbell.com, a swarm of UFOs have been caught on camera by many, many, many in Japan's port city of Osaka.
	The footage, which has been viewed by about 9,000 people now, so it's pretty young, You know, it's released on a Japanese YouTube channel as well.
	Spherical objects glowing white can be seen flying across the sky in the low-quality video.
	I'm sorry about that.
	Some users have speculated they're evidence of ET LIFO.
	Who knows?
	But the Japanese UFO sighting seems eerily similar to one in London, where concertgoers there witnessed a bright group of lights overhead in Hyde Park.
	You know, so these are mass sightings.
	I mean, it's not like one or two people.
	This is many, many, many people seeing all this.
	Coming up in a moment, Dr. John Dvorak.
	He received his Ph.D.
	in planetary geophysics from the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.
	That was followed by working for the U.S.
	Geological Survey on earthquakes and volcanoes.
	Including the 1980 eruption of Mount St.
	Helens.
	Other eruptions in Hawaii, Alaska, Italy, Central America, and Indonesia.
	They get big ones.
	Currently, Dr. Dvorak operates one of the largest telescopes at the summit of Moana Kea in Hawaii.
	Hope I got that right.
	His professional interests include the question of scientific evidence for life beyond planet Earth.
	And whether the multiverse exists.
	So this is going to be a lot of fun.
	So, coming up in a moment, Dr. Dvorak, stay right where you are.
	You're listening to Midnight in the Desert.
	And this Midnight in the Desert is filled with lightning, electricity, and lots of storms out there, so you never know.
	I was just a boy when I was five Blazing can I stick in your eye
	Times are changing now the war gets bad But the fever's gonna catch you when the bitch gets bad
	Eatin' it on a Friday night I'm a bad boy
	I'm a bad boy I'm a bad boy
	It's too late now.
	I'm gonna play this and turn the mic off here.
	It's too late now.
	It's too late now.
	The music is gone.
	It's too late now.
	The song is still on.
	I'd rather take a chance.
	you Yeah, there's a storm on the loo, a siren in my head.
	Wrapped up in silence, all circuits in bed.
	Can I be cold?
	My whole life spins into a brand new bed.
	Am I stepping into the twilight zone?
	Take a walk on the wild side of midnight.
	From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
	Please call the show at 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	Let me modify that just a little.
	Make note of the number, please, but don't call it as of yet.
	Just hang in there.
	We'll let you know when it's time.
	Let's go all the way to Hawaii and Dr. Dvorak.
	Doctor, welcome.
	To Midnight in the Desert.
	Well, hello, Art.
	It's great to be here tonight.
	It's great to have you.
	Anybody with your credentials is always great to have on the program.
	And you've got such a wide range of cool stuff you want to talk about.
	I'm going to start sort of all backwards a little bit and start with the movie San Andreas, because I took my family to see that fairly recently.
	And, you know, I know that it was all CGI, I know it was all fake, but I'm telling you right now, I was on the edge of my seat taking deep breaths through that whole movie.
	It just absolutely stunned me.
	It looked so real.
	Well, I agree with you.
	I enjoyed the movie a great deal, too.
	Really?
	But one thing that you might be surprised about is that the ground shaking that they showed in the movie...
	It's not nearly as strong as it will actually be.
	Oh, God.
	Because if you recall, for example, when they're on top of the dam... You know, I object to that.
	Can you tell me about that before we move on?
	I do recall when they were on the dam.
	I objected to the dam getting slammed right away before it all began in California.
	Is that likely?
	Well, it's not likely for the dam to break up.
	But what I wanted to point out is that during that first earthquake, people are running around and the ground is going to shake so fast that it's impossible to run.
	You'll actually be down on the ground.
	You'll be falling down.
	That's right.
	It's not possible for people to be standing or running around during one of these big earthquakes.
	So the ground is either moving up and down or laterally, or both?
	Both.
	And the reason you can't run around is the acceleration is more than 1G.
	So there are going to be times when you are actually in free fall, and then just a fraction of a second later, you'll be under an acceleration of 2Gs or more.
	Wow.
	Um, again, I guess I just object to so many movies of this kind generally destroying Las Vegas or its environs first.
	And here they did it again, and boy, there went the dam.
	But that, of course, was just the first step.
	It was the beginning of what became really horrible.
	Well, that's right.
	And there are earthquakes out there.
	There's an earthquake zone that runs pretty much from Reno to Las Vegas, and it can have rather large earthquakes.
	Not as large as the San Andreas, but you can have magnitude 7 plus earthquakes there.
	The latest one was about 1872.
	Okay, maybe you can look back in records.
	I live in the little town called Pahrump, Nevada.
	We're about 65 miles west of Las Vegas, and we're six miles from the California border.
	And a few years ago, we had a 7.3 in the desert.
	And let me tell you, Doctor, I've got a 100-foot radio tower over my house, and I was sure that piece of steel was going to come cutting through the house like a knife through hot butter, you know?
	It was a big earthquake, really.
	Right, that was the Hector Mine earthquake that occurred out in the desert and that was a magnitude 7 plus earthquake.
	7.3.
	That's right.
	They said yes.
	And if it had occurred in a place like Reno or Las Vegas or up and down the coast, there would have been major destruction and fatalities.
	If you sort of look, this is very selfish, but if you look where I am, am I on a big earthquake fault or You're in the zone.
	I'm in the zone.
	There's a zone that's known as the Walker Seismic Zone.
	It's named after the first Westerner to go in Yosemite National Park.
	It was, of course, it wasn't a park then, but he was the first one to see it.
	And the Walker Seismic Zone is about 600 miles long, about 100 miles wide, And it pretty much runs down the border between California and Nevada, between Reno and Las Vegas.
	All right, well then here's one other selfish question, and then we'll move on.
	There are two types of dirt in the area where I live.
	One is what we locally call poof dirt, and it's really soft.
	It's almost like sand.
	I mean, some people have trouble with houses sinking a little bit into it, or more than a little.
	And then we have the opposite.
	Where I live here, we have what's... it's almost like cement below me.
	It's called caliche, and it's kind of rock-like, actually.
	So, if an earthquake did happen here, would I rather be in the sandy place or the rocky place?
	Oh, you'd much rather be in the rocky place, on the caliche.
	On the caliche is an old soil Where salts have leached into it, and that's what makes it so hard.
	And in terms of earthquakes, it's better to be on solid ground instead of very loose ground.
	Got it.
	All right.
	Now, going for a second back to the movie, then, of course, the rest of the movie happened, and there became an earthquake up and down San Andreas virtually all the way.
	For all the moviegoers, and I know a lot of people saw this movie, is such a thing even possible, Doctor?
	Yes.
	Oh.
	Yes, it is possible.
	I thought you were going to say no.
	This is the scenario that people worry about a great deal.
	To back up a little bit, in the last few decades, one of the things we've learned about earthquakes is that they are not random.
	And they don't reoccur like clockwork.
	But large earthquakes seem to seem to come in clusters and they are called earthquake storms.
	And I'd like to turn your attention over to what is probably the most famous earthquake storm.
	It occurred in Turkey along a fault right along the northern edge of Turkey on the edge of the Black Sea.
	How long ago?
	From 1939 to 1999, that's 60 years, there were 13 major earthquakes.
	13.
	And people have often seen an analogy between that and the San Andreas.
	And that does get, that is a very big, big concern.
	A gigantic concern, considering that's like one-sixth of our economy in California.
	Well, that's right.
	And so that's 13 major earthquakes in 60 years, or roughly about one every four or five years.
	It's like having, if you recall, well, like the earthquake that you had in 99, the Hector Mine earthquake?
	Yes.
	Or the Northridge in 94, north of Los Angeles?
	Right.
	Or the Loma Prieta, also known as the World Series earthquake in 1989?
	Remember it, yes.
	What happened in Turkey?
	We're 13 earthquakes like that or larger.
	And so the San Andreas system, everybody I've ever talked to, including myself, see that as an analogy.
	So it is possible.
	Okay, well San Andreas has been suspiciously silent, quiet.
	That's right.
	There happens to be a seismic lull right now going on in California.
	And it's been going on pretty much since the 1906 earthquake.
	For example... Is that good or bad?
	Well, I mean it's good immediately as of the now.
	It's all in one's...
	perspective about good or bad. It's nature. And my philosophy is I accept nature on its terms
	because I really don't have a choice first of all. Okay well let me reframe the question. It's been
	quiescent, it's been so silent, but somehow under the ground I have this mental picture of two
	things pressed up against each other trying to move, trying harder to move, trying harder to move,
	and they've been trying for a while now and then when they do move they're really gonna boogie.
	Well, that's right.
	And the two things which are pushing against each other, I think most people are familiar
	with the tectonic plates, that the outer part of the planet has a dozen or more plates that
	are moving very slowly, and where they come together, they're stuck, and they sort of
	grind against each other.
	And the only way of releasing this is by a big earthquake.
	And so it's inevitable.
	There's going to be large earthquakes.
	The question is when.
	And it just happens to be that during the great urban expansion in California, you know,
	from 1920s to the 1970s, that was an extremely quiet period in terms of earthquakes.
	and...
	And that can't persist.
	And we are getting the first signs that it's starting to pick up.
	Well, when you look around, you may.
	Go ahead.
	From about 1840, you know, when the first records are kept, so from about 1840 to 1906, there were about 15 magnitude five and a half or larger earthquakes in California.
	That's 15 over a period of about 70 years.
	The next 70 years, there was only one.
	And in the last 35 years, I think there's been five.
	And so it was really quiet throughout most of the 20th century.
	And we are getting an increase of magnitude five and a half in larger earthquakes, but we still aren't up to the sevens and eights.
	And even worse, I guess, is it, again the movie, is it, what is the largest earthquake possible?
	Well, the largest one on the planet would be somewhere in the mid-nines, like what happened in Japan, or happened in Sumatra, and what is going to happen up in Washington and Oregon.
	But in California, the largest one is about an 8.2.
	Now that is still a huge earthquake that's going to cause a lot of havoc.
	and destruction of fatalities.
	Particularly if the epicenter is under some nearly populated area.
	That's right.
	Now the San Andreas, the only mega city that it goes through is the Bay Area.
	It goes north of Los Angeles, but there are certainly many splinters of it that run through Los Angeles, like the Hollywood Fault.
	Right.
	I mean, if you ever go to Hollywood, everyone stands at Hollywood and Vine.
	Sure.
	And you look north, and you see that round building of Capitol Records.
	You look beyond that, and Vine Street makes a ramp up.
	That's the Hollywood fault.
	Most movies destroy that building, by the way.
	That's right.
	It's a very convenient building.
	I guess it is, and it's a landmark.
	But in reality, it's close, huh?
	A few hundred feet away from the Hollywood Fault.
	Holy moly.
	Okay.
	So, something in the 8 plus is possible in these areas, and certainly up in the San Francisco Bay Area, huh?
	Oh, yes.
	And not just the San Andreas.
	People are very concerned about the Hayward Fault.
	That runs from just about San Jose Up through Fremont and Oakland.
	There's a lot of recent concern about the Hayward.
	Yes, in fact there was a felt earthquake there just a few weeks ago.
	Did you say a felt earthquake?
	Yes, it was a magnitude 4.
	So people felt the shaking.
	But I don't think there was any destruction.
	But the reason people are also concerned about Hayward The last major earthquake was 1868.
	There was about 24,000 people lived in the East Bay.
	Today, there's over 1.2 million people live in the East Bay.
	We don't have a movie for people, but if there were an 8.3 or 8.4 earthquake in the San Francisco Bay Area, what should we expect?
	Well, during the earthquake, you won't be able to walk around.
	The best thing when you start feeling the shaking is to get under a desk or something and it's just drop and hold on to it and it's going to shake for one, two, maybe for three minutes.
	That'll feel like an eternity.
	The one I felt went for about 45 seconds, and I thought it was forever, you know, the 7.3.
	That's right.
	If we go back to the World Series earthquake in 1989, I talked to a Stanford professor who felt it, and he said, you know, I'm well-educated, I know everything about earthquakes, but this thing shook for only 12 seconds, and I thought it was an eternity.
	I thought it was never going to stop.
	I mean, what happens after it is important.
	Well, yeah, there you go.
	San Francisco, after something of that magnitude, what's left?
	Well, there'll be no running water, there'll be no electric power, there'll be no transportation, and there'll be no communication with the cell phones.
	Well, that just about rips all of it.
	People will have to cope.
	Yeah, that rips about all of it.
	I mean, if all of that is gone, That's right, and people will have to cope depending on the areas.
	If you're in an outer area, maybe like 20 miles or more, things will probably be out for just a few hours.
	If you're down in the major shaking, it could be down for weeks.
	Alright, the circle of fire, the ring of fire, whatever you want to call it, There's sure been an awful lot of action on the rest of it.
	I mean, Japan, Indonesia, really big stuff.
	And, you know, you see that begin to happen.
	Usually it seems like it comes on around, then something happens in South America, and then it seems to come north.
	Maybe I'm all wrong about that, but it feels like that.
	And for some reason, a lot of Asia's been really catching it big time, as you know.
	And the West Coast, not so much.
	Well, that's right.
	Again, if an earthquake happens in Japan, it doesn't have any immediate effect on the West Coast of North or South America.
	Right.
	But it does have a regional effect, and that's where this concept of earthquake storms come from.
	So there isn't any global increase of activity, but you can have a regional increase of activity that'll last decades, which is pretty much a lifetime.
	So it could start up, for example, tomorrow in California, and it could keep going for years.
	That's right, for decades.
	As another example, you probably remember what happened in Sumatra.
	Yes, I do.
	Well, that was not just an isolated earthquake.
	That was actually part of an earthquake storm.
	Sumatra was very quiet in terms of earthquakes for over a hundred years.
	And then in 2001, there was the first magnitude 8 earthquake, and they have now had six.
	Six in 14 years.
	It was horrible.
	You know, the tsunami from it was horrible.
	That's right, and so that's why there's this concern about what seismologists call Cascadia, which is the place of Washington and Oregon.
	That has been very quiet, very little seismic activity for 200 years.
	Well, I have a lot of listeners up in that area right now.
	Right, and so what the concern is Is that there will certainly be a large earthquake, but there'll probably be a series of large earthquakes.
	And once they start, they'll probably go on for a couple decades and then stop again.
	Would you imagine people saying, I've had enough after about two or three and just moving out of the area?
	A lot of people do.
	Yes, they do.
	I had a good, a very good friend who was in the World Series earthquake, the Loma Prieta earthquake, 89.
	And after two days of aftershocks, he said, I finally yelled out, stop this.
	When is this going to stop?
	But remember, on these large earthquakes, these will be spaced most likely over a period of many years.
	So it's not like one today and then one next week and another week.
	Though it's possible, it's more likely it will be spaced out.
	Still very little comfort after you've just had one.
	Well, that's right.
	I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, and it's a beautiful place, and I would live there with the earthquakes.
	Oh, you would?
	You would?
	Okay, well that's an endorsement.
	Doctor, hold on, we're at a break point.
	We'll be right back.
	This, of course, is Midnight in the Desert.
	And it's rocking out there in the desert tonight.
	For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
	Witnesses say three people were performing an exorcism in a Texas public park on Thursday morning.
	It started getting louder and louder and louder.
	I think she was on the ground and they were standing over her with hands on her, screaming, saying, I demand that you depart.
	You couldn't, you know, it just went on and on and on.
	That's the reaction from one bystander after what eyewitnesses are calling an exorcism.
	It has also concerned the local clergyman, Father Dave Hawksley.
	My overriding thought in that is I hope that the people who are doing it in some level of training.
	He describes exorcism as the removal of an evil spirit through the use of prayer and originates from the Gospel of Jesus.
	A person who they're exorcising to another person's getting the care that they need.
	Police say they were called to the scene, but since it's not illegal to perform an exorcism in a public place, they did not take action.
	No injuries were reported.
	A Hillview man has been arrested after he shot down a drone flying over his property, but he's not making any apologies for it.
	It happened Sunday night at a home in Bullitt County, Kentucky.
	Hillview police say they were called to the home of a 47-year-old William Meredith after someone complained about a firearm.
	When they arrived, police say Meredith told them he'd shot down a drone that was flying over his house.
	The drone was hit mid-air and crashed.
	Well, we might be a little closer to interplanetary travel, after scientists have recently confirmed that an electromagnetic propulsion drive, which is fast enough to get to the moon in four hours, actually works.
	The EM drive was developed by the British inventor Roger Shawyer nearly 15 years ago, but was ridiculed at the time as being scientifically impossible.
	It produces thrust by using solar power to generate multiple microwaves that move back and forth in an enclosed chamber.
	This means that until something fails or wears down, theoretically the engine could keep running forever without the need for rocket fuel.
	The drive which has been likened to Star Trek's impulse drive has left scientists scratching their heads because it defies one of the fundamental concepts of physics.
	The conservation of momentum, which states that if something is propelled forward, Something must be pushed in the opposite direction.
	So the forces inside the chamber should cancel each other out.
	In recent years, though, NASA has confirmed that they believe it works.
	And this week, Martin Tajmor, Professor and Chair for Space Systems at Dresden University of Technology in Germany, also showed that it does produce thrust.
	Well, you know how it is.
	You're swinging a hammer around, having heaps of fun, and you stumble across your very own personal bat cave.
	Except it's not a bat cave.
	It's an entire city.
	While redoing his house in 1963, a man in Nevisehir province of Turkey, in an area known as Cappadocia, knocked down a wall.
	Behind that wall was a tunnel.
	And behind that tunnel, there was an underground city.
	What he had stumbled across was one of the many hidden entrances to the ancient underground city of Derinkuyu.
	This was an entire city carved into the stone below Cappadocia, reaching some 60 meters below.
	It had 18 levels.
	It had it all.
	Residences, churches, food storage, wineries, and even a school.
	It was designed to house some 20,000 people, as well as livestock.
	It features vents to the surface and several discreet entrances.
	This all suggests that the city was built as a precaution to protect the people during times of war or natural disaster.
	Cities like these were used during times of Christian persecution, so religious items would be placed on the lowest levels for protection.
	The city was also used as a refuge from the Mongolian invasion in the 1300s and up through the 20th century for Christian people fleeing persecution.
	It was finally abandoned for good in 1923.
	After its rediscovery, the city opened it to tourists in 1969.
	Today, about half the city is available to the public.
	I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
	This is a story about a man who was a man.
	He was a man.
	The Day's Devicer.
	Get your ticket to ride by calling 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-2255.
	A real wise guy, not that kind, but as in wisdom, Dr. John Dvorak is our guest.
	He talks about, well, we're talking about earthquakes right now, but hold on to your hat.
	We're going to move on to volcanoes, then telescopes, what can be seen, then life beyond Earth.
	So, we've got quite a road to travel this night.
	Welcome back, Doctor.
	Oh, yes.
	Okay, so how does one know if you're at the beginning of an earthquake storm or just a one-off event?
	One doesn't know.
	That's the unfortunate part.
	There's no way of knowing if it's the beginning of a storm.
	However, once you get a large earthquake, you can get a better idea That more are going to come in the very near future.
	For example, I mentioned Sumatra.
	Yes.
	There's been an earthquake storm going on there since 2001, and there's been six major earthquakes, and people have said there'll be at least two more.
	Now, these next two could easily be 40 years from now, or they may be occurring now, but people are confident that it's not over.
	Okay, Doctor, we've got a worldwide audience, so I've got a couple of questions for you that just came in on the computer.
	I get these things as we go on with the show.
	Richard in Japan asks Art, question for your guest, I live in Yokohama and there are some small earthquakes and volcanic activity happening right now, right here.
	Could Mount Fuji erupt again?
	Well, Mount Fuji will certainly erupt again, but what you're seeing now is not an indication.
	of a run-up to an eruption of Fuji.
	Mount Fuji was very active until 1707 and so that's now been over 300 years
	that it's been quiet but it will erupt again.
	But what this listener is feeling and seeing is not a run-up to an eruption.
	Just a small flurry of quakes?
	Yes, because part of the problem is there's always this small flurry of earthquakes, and we've never been able to sort out which ones are the actual lead-up and which ones are just background.
	Robert, and he wants to know, ask please about the New Madrid Vault for all of us here in the southwest Missouri area.
	Yes, one of the largest earthquakes in the history of the United States occurred there.
	In fact, four of them occurred there between 1811 and 1812.
	1811 and 1812. We are pretty much ignorant as to why. We're not sure why such large earthquakes
	occur in the middle of the continent.
	I just have to plead ignorant.
	No problem.
	Because nobody knows.
	So if you don't know, it's better to say, I don't know.
	But again, it's been a long time, right?
	So again, the feeling that, you know, it's like the pressure is building.
	Or is that not a proper way to look at it?
	Is the pressure always building or are some areas almost dormant for really, really long periods.
	Well, the center of the continents are very, very stable.
	Like in North America, if you go to Canada, those are very stable platforms.
	And they're known as cratons.
	But almost all the geologic activity occurs on the plate boundaries.
	So, along the west coast of North and South America, Japan, Indonesia, that's where almost all of the geologic activity is going on, earthquakes and volcanoes.
	Why?
	Oh, that's because of the motion of the tectonic plates.
	As they move across the surface of the Earth, and we live on a sphere, they collide with each other.
	And it's that collision that's producing the earthquake.
	So there's really no way... I know scientists are working really hard in California, but there's no way to predict earthquakes, is there?
	No one has predicted an earthquake yet.
	And we're not sure if it's possible.
	If I could step back, probably the biggest question in seismology today is exactly what is a big earthquake?
	Meaning, is a big earthquake like what happened in Japan, is it a small earthquake that just got very big?
	Or was it a large segment of the plate boundary that moved all together?
	And the physics of that is very different.
	If it's a matter that it's a small earthquake that grew big, there's lots of small earthquakes all the time, and we will never be able to predict large earthquakes.
	But if it's the other case, that a big earthquake actually starts off different,
	like a whole sliding, then it's possible.
	And people are frantically trying to answer that question, because they know that's the key,
	whether it's even possible to predict.
	Okay, maybe this is the wrong way to think of it, but on a mountain, if you've got pretty big rock,
	if that rock starts falling down the mountain, it can either go down pretty well unmolested
	and maybe block a road at the bottom, or it can hit a million other rocks on the way down,
	and you've got a total landslide on your hands.
	Down deep in the earth, is there an equivalent to that?
	I mean, you said a small earthquake might cause a big one.
	That's kind of what put that in my head.
	That's exactly right.
	Oh.
	That's perfect.
	If it's a matter that it's a small earthquake that grew big, people refer to that as the cascade model of a large earthquake.
	And it's exactly that.
	You get a small earthquake that causes more small earthquakes, and they just cascade down and they produce this huge one.
	And so that's one of the models for a large earthquake.
	But we're not sure if it's the correct physics yet.
	Conceivably, man is getting pretty powerful now.
	We could do something that would be powerful enough to cause an earthquake.
	I mean, I am just over the mountain here from where they set off the nuclear weapons when they were testing them above and then below ground.
	And I remember being on the air in Las Vegas and having to warn people because, boy, I'll tell you, Vegas would rock and roll when they set one of those things off.
	Oh, right.
	One thing about large earthquakes, we don't know what triggers them.
	And one thing we know about them is that they apparently are very hard to start.
	For example, one of the largest atomic blasts was about 1971 or so, up in the Aleutians.
	And it was the equivalent of like a magnitude 6 earthquake.
	And there was concern, especially in Japan, That this was going to set off a whole series of quakes, but it didn't.
	And so, this whole notion of triggering a big earthquake is right at the core of the science of seismology, and people continue to argue with great passion as to what is the physics of a big earthquake.
	Indeed.
	I mean, I could ask, if you were to set off a nuclear weapon with a pretty big yield somewhere on the San Andreas, Do you think that has a chance of triggering the whole mess?
	No.
	No.
	It's just not putting enough energy in the ground to do that, or the right type of energy.
	So in other words, even hydrogen bombs are small energy compared to a big earthquake?
	Yeah, it has to do with the way that the energy gets put into the earth.
	Because you know, an explosion is sort of like an impulse.
	An earthquake is like a sliding.
	And so, if you had a bomb that could actually slide things, it might do it.
	Let me tell you... The physics is very different.
	I see.
	Alright, let me tell you.
	Your mic is so good, Doctor, and I know you're in Hawaii, that I hear a bird in the background.
	Oh, yeah.
	The sun is just going down and that's when the birds start to chirp.
	Oh, I bet it's gorgeous.
	It's beautiful in Hawaii every day.
	Well, you know, I hear that.
	I very nearly moved recently.
	I have this ham radio friend who had this gorgeous property up on a hill down on the Big Island.
	And the only thing that stopped me Was interesting because it was coming out of the ground, and I'm talking about the volcanic stuff.
	I forget what they call it, but it's actually a pretty severe factor depending where on the big island you are.
	It fools with air quality, no question about it.
	Well, that's right.
	It certainly puts a lot of smoke in the air.
	I think they call it bog.
	That's right, a volcanic fog that usually blows with the trade winds, so it blows away from where I am.
	But it's a beautiful island.
	The volcanoes are one of the intriguing things.
	Oh, it's gorgeous.
	And from my house, I can see both Kilauea, which I live on in Mauna Loa, and I actually saw both of them erupt simultaneously when I was in bed one morning.
	Oh, and that didn't move you away, huh?
	You didn't move away.
	Oh, no.
	If anything, people come here for eruptions.
	The eruptions are spectacular.
	I've never seen anybody not be awed the first time when they see molten rock.
	Well, I can tell you one who's not awed.
	I'm married to a Filipina gal, and I lived in the Philippines for a long time.
	We were in Manila, and we got news that the Mayan volcano was erupting.
	And I said, come on, let's get in the car and go down there.
	I want to see this.
	And I could not get her to budge.
	I think she's genetically disinclined to go to an erupting volcano.
	That's the initial response, certainly.
	And the ones in the Philippines are the ones which explode.
	The ones here in Hawaii are not.
	Good point.
	Very good point.
	At any rate, I could not get her to budge.
	She wasn't going to go, and so we never did end up going.
	The Mayan volcano was going pretty well there for a while and it was getting scary and they were beginning to, you know, make people move away and safety areas and all that sort of thing.
	But I wanted to go.
	So I guess you're probably very much like me.
	You want to see it?
	Oh, yes.
	Yes, I'm very intrigued.
	I'm attracted to the parts of nature which are dynamic.
	I'm attracted to storms, earthquakes, volcanoes.
	Oh, me too.
	I chase tornadoes.
	Oh, no, I did earlier in my life.
	Oh, you did?
	Oh, heavens yes.
	Amarillo, Texas, a friend of mine and I used to get in a little Volkswagen.
	How dumb is that?
	And we would chase these giant storms all the way sometimes into Oklahoma, take video and sell it to the TV station there in Amarillo.
	And so I love it.
	I love violent anything.
	You know, I married a gal who's somehow got it in her genetic structure to stay away from volcanoes.
	Can't blame her.
	So, I love that kind of thing.
	So, in that, we share something.
	So, with regard to earthquake prediction, it's a no.
	I mean, there was some guy in California who predicted 98% chance or something like that of one in Northern California, and it never came off.
	Yes, there's been a whole series of people attempting to predict one.
	Alright, so people are failing at predicting.
	Now, here's the other question.
	What about animals?
	Jim Birkland is famous for watching the newspaper for missing, lost animals because he thinks they run away before earthquakes.
	Yes, I'm very familiar with Jim Birkland.
	No, no one has ever used animals to predict earthquakes.
	There's a lot of anecdotal evidence, but there's no scientific.
	And what I mean about that, in order to have scientific evidence for anything, it has to be consistent, you have to have other supportive evidence for it, at some point you have to come up with a mechanism for it, and you have to be able to use it to sort of predict what's going to happen.
	And the problem with using animals Is that people tell me that their dog, horse, cat ran away, or they came back, or got active, or fell asleep, and all that is inconsistent.
	And that's been the fundamental problem with animal predictions.
	And people have looked at over a hundred different species, and there's just nothing consistent about it.
	Okay, so really when you boil everything you've said down, there We just don't understand earthquakes.
	We don't understand them to the point that we can predict them at all.
	Fair?
	That's right.
	and we don't even know if the physics of a large earthquakes even permit it.
	For example, scientists talk about something being non-deterministic or it is determined.
	For example, the orbit of the moon is determined and I can tell you when an eclipse is going
	to happen.
	All that is deterministic.
	Earthquakes seem to be non-deterministic, which means we may not have any hope of predicting
	them.
	That's just the physics of it.
	Right, they've set up lasers looking across mountain ranges and looked for movement and they've done all these different things and so you just can't predict.
	It certainly isn't possible today.
	All right, sort of then on to volcanoes.
	I do have a fear Yellowstone. I've seen predictions of what would happen if
	Yellowstone blew up.
	And they're not good at all.
	Well, let me say, I've never met a volcano I didn't like.
	Even Yellowstone?
	I find them intriguing. The ones at Yellowstone with the boiling pots, the geysers.
	Oh, that's cool. Yeah.
	And even looking at the debris from the last major eruptions.
	All of that is very spectacular.
	That said, if Yellowstone, if the caldera, boom, blew up, what would happen?
	Well, the main effect, of course, is the tremendous amount of ash which will go.
	I don't recall exactly what the maps are, but if you're within 50 miles or so, you'll probably have three to four feet of ash.
	And even as far as New York, you'll probably have something like a tenth of an inch of ash.
	Good.
	Honestly, good.
	Now again, I've got a lot of Northwest listeners, and of course, you know, they're very concerned about Mount St.
	the economy, but such an a thing is extremely unlikely.
	Good. Honestly good.
	Now again I've got a lot of Northwest listeners and of course you know they're
	very concerned about Mount St. Helens with good reason.
	Right I was at Mount Helens in 1980.
	You were there?
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, my.
	That's when I started my career.
	I couldn't believe my great fortune.
	Well, from our perspective, I understand your statement.
	Most people would go, oh, really?
	Great fortune?
	Well, the eruption was spectacular and dealing with putting in instruments I was standing on the ground as it shakes like jello.
	The one that I was close to was not St. Helens, it was one down in Indonesia just less than
	a mile away when it blew up.
	That was the night that my life changed.
	It was an epiphany to me when I was just within a mile or two of this volcano exploding.
	This was Galunga.
	I doubt if people remember that it exploded in 1982.
	We were actually at the top of a volcano called Merapi, 50 miles away, during its first explosion.
	We had just gone in the crater.
	This was Galunga.
	I doubt if people remember that it exploded in 1982.
	We were actually at the top of a volcano called Merapi 50 miles away during its first explosion.
	And then we got in land rovers, and we rushed over there as fast as we could.
	You do realize you're describing things with a sort of a, I don't know, a zealot's excitement
	about how cool it is.
	Most things that people would move away from, run from, so it's kind of interesting to listen to.
	I understand it.
	If you could promise me one thing.
	Yes, sir?
	Don't tell my mother.
	Have you described these things to your mom?
	Never.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, she said, well, what did you do?
	I said, well, I had dinner, and then we all went to bed.
	I mean, it was just a quiet night, Mom.
	But anyway... Alright, we're at a break point, that break point I told you about.
	We'll be right back.
	The Midnight Moon by Thee Sessions The midnight moon is drifting through
	the laziest way of the tree I saw the look in your eyes
	looking into mine and seeing what you wanted to see
	Darling, don't say a word cause I already heard
	what your body said Come on men and women, scut!
	Oh, that cut off didn't it?
	Let's try it again.
	In that darkest time between dusk and dawn, from the high desert, it's Art Bell's Midnight
	Now, here's Art.
	Oh, well, that'll do, I guess.
	Ah, electronics.
	All right, Dr. Dvorak is my guest, and we're talking about calamitous things, actually.
	Yeah, I used to chase tornadoes, and I can't tell you the thrill of seeing the sky utterly dark in front of you, big roll cloud coming.
	The sun peeking out somewhere, and then suddenly a tornado dips down.
	Now, even the meteorologists on the Weather Channel have a hard time, Doctor, sort of hiding their relation at what they're seeing.
	This baby is amazing!
	But then, on the other hand, they have to say, but of course it's awful and very dangerous.
	Get in your basements right now.
	So, people like us, It's like writing a fine line, isn't it?
	Well, that's right.
	And when you feel in your heart, you're very much torn apart.
	Because these events are very destructive.
	Yes.
	But they're extremely awesome.
	And if I could tell you, remember there was an earthquake in Chile about four years ago.
	I do.
	It did a huge amount of destruction.
	I do.
	And the wave came across the Pacific.
	And so I went down to Hilo and stood on a cliff to watch the wave come in.
	But deep in my heart, I had this problem.
	I was intrigued and safe and I knew there were hundreds of thousands of people suffering and they were trapped in rubble.
	Right.
	And personally, I still have trouble dealing with that, between the elation I have for nature and the empathy that I feel for these people.
	Sure.
	For example, I asked a person who was the head of the earthquake studies for the United States Geological Survey.
	I said, the day you retire, Are you going to be disappointed there hasn't been a tremendous earthquake like 1906 in California?
	And he turned to me and he said, no, because of all the suffering it's going to cause.
	He said, I'm not sure I could actually deal with that.
	And yet that's, I guess, the job.
	Right?
	It's a job.
	You should be interested in it.
	It's just hard to temper it so that normal people understand.
	That's all.
	That's right.
	And people who deal with hurricanes, I've talked to them, and they feel the same way.
	There's this elation that there's a Category 5 monster out there, but they know that in 48 hours, It's going to rip across and destroy people's lives.
	Again, my wife's home in the Philippines is just about the bullseye for more typhoons than you can imagine.
	It's just horrible.
	Right. In fact, here on this island, there's a tropical storm that's going to become a hurricane tomorrow.
	And it's projected to run very close to the Hawaiian Islands on Wednesday.
	Really?
	And the question is, will it go across the islands or north or south?
	And that's sort of what part of life of what you deal with.
	Next Thursday, my house may or may not be here.
	How does it look now?
	I mean, I'm sure you're following the track very carefully.
	If the track is accurate, does it miss?
	Well, it's 1,800 miles away, and so there's a huge uncertainty.
	The only thing that is certain right now is that it's going to grow from a tropical storm into a hurricane, Category 2, and it will pass close to the Hawaiian Islands at the middle of next week.
	And the cone, I'm sure, at that distance is well over you right now.
	One, the cone includes me, but it could also be 500 miles north.
	But long ago, I just learned, you accept what's given to you, in terms of nature.
	So Mount St.
	Helens, is the fact that it recently, fairly recently, exploded, does that indicate to you that it's liable to go again?
	Or exact opposite, that it'll go to sleep for a while?
	Well, a system like that can certainly go dormant for hundreds of years.
	It is very unlikely to have a replay of what happened in 1980.
	And there's a variety of reasons.
	And so that's not, if you ask people who are involved in hazards of volcanoes in the Pacific Northwest, Mount St.
	Helens is there.
	But the bigger concerns are Shasta, Mount Hood, and Mount Rainier.
	Most of the watershed for Mount Hood, that's the water supply for Portland, Oregon.
	Mount Rainier, because of the amount of ice on it, could produce a lot of mud flows, and they can reach the water on the southern part of Seattle, and there's hundreds of thousands of people live there.
	And Shasta, there's not as many people, but it could certainly produce a lot of destruction.
	Those are the three which, if you ask about the Pacific Northwest, those are the ones that people focus on.
	I see.
	Alright, well, unlike earthquakes, volcanoes to some degree, I believe, can be predicted.
	Yes?
	Yes.
	Because unlike earthquakes, as far as we can tell, earthquakes are spontaneous events.
	Volcanic eruptions, it's the movement of magma.
	And it seems that it takes hours to months for it to actually break through.
	And so a typical eruption, you'll have hours to months of knowing that something may or may not happen soon.
	And they'll be clearing people away and that kind of thing.
	That's right.
	Unfortunately, there'll be a lot of uncertainty.
	You're not certain it's going to erupt.
	And you're not certain exactly how large it's going to be, but there certainly will be.
	Now, ours may not be enough to do a lot of things, but a volcano does not erupt spontaneously.
	It seemed to me that when Mount St.
	Helens went, it was a big surprise.
	And then after it went, I saw pictures saying, well, they should have known because the side of the dome was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
	And it was kind of a big surprise, right?
	Well, I can tell you what the discussions were of people who were there.
	It was, how could we have been so stupid?
	It was so obvious in hindsight what was going to happen.
	But then as we talked about it, they said, OK, let's go back a week.
	What were we talking about?
	And it wasn't obvious at the time exactly what was going to go on.
	And there was this constant balance of how much do we tell people of potentially how bad it may be as to, well, this might happen, but it's a low probability.
	And then we have this uncertainty.
	This activity could go on for a year without an eruption and people's homes are there and their jobs are there.
	Are we really prepared to tell people you are out of work for a year and it may or may not erupt?
	And we did spend a lot of time trying to balance that out.
	Well, yeah.
	If you tell people a mountain's going to explode, they're going to get really upset, no doubt about it.
	That's right.
	But if you say it may not be for a year, they say, well, then why can't I go to work?
	Because it might be tomorrow.
	Yeah, but in hindsight, again, it was obvious, right?
	In hindsight, it was obvious.
	That's right.
	So have we changed since then?
	In other words, are we making careful measurements that will be apparent to us in some way other than hindsight in the future?
	We're making much better measurements.
	We have much more out there in terms of finding out about earthquakes, about the ground motion.
	For example, Well, where we happen to have instruments, we're able to measure the ground if it moves just by a tenth of an inch.
	And so, a great deal has happened in the last 35 years.
	We still understand that it's not perfect, and we're not going to be able to give out, say, next Wednesday at 8 o'clock it's going to happen.
	But we are certainly in a much better situation now than we were in 1980.
	Um, that's a little bit encouraging anyway.
	Although I bet there would still be a gigantic fight if what we talked about became obvious about whether to actually announce it or not.
	I mean, how do those decisions get made?
	Well, they get made after a lot of very heated arguments and name-calling goes on in private.
	Even name-calling?
	It gets personal.
	Oh yes, it really is personal.
	You mean scientists actually fight with each other?
	Well, I'll tell you, scientific research is a contact sport.
	You better have a helmet on because things will get The campaigns will get very heavy sometimes.
	Yes, I suppose so.
	The egos are big, the competition is fierce, and people are sure they're right and you're wrong.
	Until you're proven right or wrong.
	That's right. Okay, let me ask you about our Earth.
	And how much you know.
	You know, we know so little, Doctor, about what's under our feet.
	I know there's dirt, then you dig down for a while and you get to water that you can drink if you're lucky.
	But I don't know much about the Earth.
	Period.
	I don't know much about the Earth.
	What's in the middle of the Earth?
	What's next to that?
	It's a lot of territory to cover.
	How much does man really know about what he stands on?
	Well, let me preface it by saying, Earth is one of my favorite planets.
	Oh, mine too.
	It certainly is on my list of favorite planets.
	But you hit it on the head.
	We know much less about the interior of the Earth than we do about the surface of Mars, or even on the interior of the Sun.
	We know a surprisingly great detail of what's happening inside the Sun.
	The other thing is, the most geologically active part of planet Earth is not on the surface.
	It's thousands of miles beneath our feet.
	The Earth is like an onion.
	There's a core.
	And that's mostly made out of iron and nickel.
	There's an inner core that's solid, an outer core that's liquid, and then, as you learn in grade school, the mantle that's made out of what we call just a rocky material.
	And actually, the most geologically active part, that is where most of the chemical changes are occurring, are actually between the core and the mantle.
	It's not on the surface.
	And what's going on between the core and the metal?
	Well, it's the chemistry.
	The core right there is very hot liquid iron nickel.
	Do we really know all this for sure?
	I mean, iron and then... Okay.
	It's clear that, for a variety of reasons, we not only know it's iron and nickel, we also know it has a very small amount of sulfur in it, and it escapes me what else, but we're very sure it's iron and nickel.
	Okay, well, it's not because we've been there, because we haven't, so it must be instrumentation or magnetic measurements or what?
	Yes, it's a combination.
	It's the magnetic field, it's the passage of the seismic waves, it's in laboratories people put various things together like iron-nickel, and they bring them to very high pressure, and they see when is it going to melt, what minerals are formed, what's the seismic velocity, and it's pretty much clear that the core of the earth is almost entirely iron-nickel.
	Absolutely fascinating stuff.
	Hold tight.
	We'll go ahead and get this out of the way.
	It's great.
	Dr. Dvorak is my guest, and we're going to be talking of some really fascinating stuff.
	Already done it, but I'm telling you, there's a lot coming up.
	Yeah, what's down there?
	Center of the Earth, right?
	I can see her lying back in her satin dress In a room where you do what you don't confess
	Sundown, you better take care If I find you been creeping round my back steps
	you've been creeping around my back stairs sundown you better take care of my mind
	Sundown, you better take care If I find you been creeping round my back steps
	you've been creeping around my back stairs you've been looking...
	She's been looking...
	...my mind.
	Sundown...
	Thanks for watching!
	Well I think it's time to get ready to realize just what I have found
	I have little to care of what I am all clear to me now
	my heart is on fire my soul's like a wheel that's turning
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	To call the show, if you're east of midnight, call 1-952-CALL-ART.
	If you're west of midnight, call 1-952-225-5278.
	Thank you, Ross.
	Welcome back, everybody.
	Dr. Dvorak is my guest.
	We're talking about earthquakes and volcanoes and soon more.
	to five fifty two seventy eight thank you ross welcome back everybody doctor
	devorah is my guest we're talking about earthquakes
	and volcanoes and soon more there was recently
	you know i really should pay attention i guess to the people
	sending me all these uh... these questions People live, of course, all over the place.
	Here's somebody from Miami who says, Art, what are the chances of that volcano in the Canary Islands off Africa erupting?
	I read that half the mountain might fall into the Atlantic, I remember this story, and wipe out the East Coast and the Caribbean.
	Doctor?
	Well, that is possible.
	It's an active volcano out there in the Canary Islands.
	And part of the evolution of those volcanoes, the same as here in Hawaii, is that part of them eventually slide into the ocean, and that creates a huge wave.
	Such things occur over a period of 10,000 years, 100,000 years, and so the probability of it happening is very low, but it is possible.
	Okay, good.
	Well, every now and then you get those articles in the paper, and it just, you know, scares the heck out of you.
	An island about to, or a whole part of a mountain about to fall in the water, something that would destroy perhaps the East Coast, so it's barely possible.
	That's right.
	It's a very small risk.
	Okay.
	If you were to be talking to the people in California right now, up and down the San Andreas, would you tell them, relax, enjoy life, or would you say, Hey, you know, if I lived there, I'd move.
	Well, of course you wouldn't.
	I would say relax, enjoy life.
	You live in one of the nicest places in the world.
	There's so much diversity.
	There's so much excitement.
	There's so much culture there.
	It's one of my favorite places.
	San Francisco, Los Angeles.
	I was going to say high taxes, though.
	The taxes are high.
	They're not as high as in many parts of the world.
	The taxes are high.
	But the state just intrigues me.
	All right.
	We just had this amazing, amazing, truly amazing thing happen as we got photographs of Pluto.
	Now... Oh, yes.
	Spectacular.
	In those photographs were 11,000 foot mountains.
	Now, you know, it's cold out there.
	It's far from the sun.
	How do you imagine, can you imagine, how those 11,000 foot mountains got there?
	No.
	I was blown away.
	So was I. This is not at all what I thought Pluto was going to be.
	Right.
	I look at those and I'm just struck by them.
	To put this in perspective, Pluto is about half the size of the moon.
	So it's not a very big object.
	Yes it is.
	Yeah.
	It's extremely cold and dark out there.
	Yes it is.
	And so to come upon this thing with so much geologic activity,
	Yeah.
	It just blew us away.
	I thought we'd get a billiard ball and a frozen one at that.
	I agree. I thought that and it'd have a bunch of craters on it
	and we'd fly by and people would say, what was the big deal?
	It's just, that's all it is.
	But it's a very dynamic place.
	And if it has those 11,000 foot mountains, glaciers made out of nitrogen, it is possible that it has an internal ocean of water.
	And of course, as people say, wherever there's water, There could be life out there.
	That's right.
	I was watching the NASA news conference, and some reporter in the back of the room said, you know, I don't see what the big deal is.
	We've got these pictures.
	It's not very exciting.
	And the scientist looked at him on the panel like he was from another planet, literally.
	He said, oh my God, of course it's exciting.
	Look at this geology.
	It was completely unexpected.
	I don't know of anyone, and I was in that, who would have thought that this was Pluto.
	I really thought it was just going to be a big part of ice with some craters on it, and the surface would be billions of years old, but it's an active surface, which means the internal part of it's active.
	Which means, what's the source of the heat that drives this geology?
	Yes, sir.
	A, B, C, just like that.
	You get to what's the source of the heat, and I guess you could guess radiation, possibly, or...
	I really don't know.
	Everything which we would put in will not work.
	It's because it's a small object and it just shouldn't have that much heat in it, even the radioactive stuff.
	So in other words, even if you model it, you don't come up with an answer?
	You just don't come up with an answer.
	We are missing something fundamental here.
	And Pluto is going to point us in a brand new direction.
	Fundamental.
	Interesting.
	So that whatever it is might change our whole view of planetary science?
	That's right, and what's out there.
	Remember, Pluto is just one of maybe 10,000, 100,000 objects like that out there.
	And so, what are those things like?
	Yes, indeed.
	In terms of, well, this looks boring to me, what the person said at the news conference, this always goes back to that same fundamental question.
	Are we alone?
	What was our origin?
	And so forth.
	When you look at a brand new world, that's still part of our history.
	Well, then this added more questions than it did answers, right?
	Oh, certainly.
	I mean, it added a lot of questions.
	So, you know, you kind of explained the dynamics going on below our feet, but there may be some stuff we don't fully grasp yet.
	Oh, there are many things.
	There are many things which we don't understand, many things that are inconsistent, that we're desperately trying to figure out.
	Okay.
	One other area that I want to get to, you know, we're going to eventually take calls here, but you are a scientist, and God, I love science.
	I absolutely love science.
	I understand that I can talk to you, if I wish, about the multiverse or the multiverse theorem.
	Can we talk about that?
	Oh, sure.
	It'll be the big discovery of the 21st century.
	You think?
	Yes.
	And we're right on the edge of it.
	We may have collected data and the telescope that I work at, I may have had observers which have collected data and they're desperately working through it and trying to convince people that yes, the multiverse is out there.
	It's not mainstream science, it's not widely accepted, but people are strongly going toward that.
	You work with a large telescope, as you just mentioned.
	Yes.
	So I've got to ask, on behalf of a lot of people out there, have you ever seen anything that just caused you to jump?
	I mean, something so weird or strange that you might not even talk about it normally?
	Oh no, I'm happy to talk about anything.
	Really?
	But what makes me jump, as my father says, does not make a person who's normal jump.
	So I'm intrigued by different things.
	Yes, I think we've already established that.
	Okay.
	Well, one of the most spectacular things we saw was the breakup of a comet.
	The comet started to break up into about 20 pieces one night, and I was floored by that.
	I remember watching a storm over a period of about a week develop and dissipate on the planet Neptune.
	I was really intrigued by that.
	We saw a star flare up in a nursery where stars are being born.
	We saw one flare up one night.
	And of course, we look at like in the Andromeda Galaxy, and we're able to see clusters of stars that sit there.
	And though we haven't seen it, we certainly have a lot of evidence of the gigantic black hole that sits right at the heart of the Milky Way.
	I worry a bit about black holes.
	Why?
	If we run into one or one runs into us, I don't know, it'd be a bad day.
	You won't even know it happened.
	Well, there is that.
	If you fell into a black hole, you wouldn't even know it happened to you.
	But you'd still be gone.
	Or in another universe?
	Yes.
	People aren't quite sure what happens once you get down at the point, but in terms of being able to sense things or to see things, you would just sort of age in a normal manner.
	However, people who are looking at you from outside the black hole would see you gone.
	And so you really wouldn't know what's going on here.
	So you might actually not, I guess in the physical sense you would die, right?
	You would die.
	Well, yes.
	I mean, our bodies are atoms, and that's what happens to atoms.
	They break up and transmute and so forth.
	All right.
	Hold it right there, Doctor.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	If only you believed like I do, if only you believed in that God, we'd get by.
	If only you believed, if only you believed in miracles, so would I.
	I'm going to the airport.
	For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
	A minor earthquake has struck off the northern tip of Vancouver Island.
	Natural Resources Canada says a 4.7 magnitude quake hit around 5.30 on Wednesday evening.
	The shock originated about 175 kilometers west of Port Hardy, British Columbia.
	Natural Resources Canada said there were no reports of damage and that none would have been expected.
	The ministry said the quake was not felt.
	According to a new study, Washington, D.C.
	is slowly seeping into the earth, and it could sink another six inches in the next century due to subsurface land movement under the Chesapeake Bay.
	The research confirms twin hypotheses, both of which are worrying.
	The first is the tide gauges show sea level rises in the Chesapeake region are twice the global average.
	And the levels are rising faster than elsewhere in the East Coast.
	The second is that the prehistoric ice sheets in the north which pushed up the land around D.C.
	are now melting, and the land in the Chesapeake region is settling back down as a result.
	Researchers at the University of Vermont said the sinking land under the nation's capital would exacerbate the effects of flooding caused by climate change and rising ocean waters.
	This would in turn threaten the region's roads, monuments, wildlife refuges, and military installations.
	There are numerous reports of people who saw a different looking aircraft in the sky last night.
	Many from the Denver, Colorado area say they saw a stealth bomber flying over Dick's Sporting Goods in Commerce City.
	This was just ahead of the MLS All-Star Game, and that's the aircraft they saw, which means it wasn't so stealth.
	It made an appearance right after the National Anthem around 7.15 that evening.
	Quite a few local area residents caught the stealth bomber on video and photographs.
	You can take a look at them at darkmatternews.com.
	A mystery over a group picture.
	Everyone was having a good time until they noticed that they were being photobombed by a ghost.
	Nothing out of the ordinary seemed to be going on when the photos were taken.
	But when they took a closer look, that's when they said they noticed a shadowy figure peering out of them from the second story window.
	Natasha Oliver and her friends were hanging out in her hometown of Wim in Shropshire, UK.
	Oliver told ABC News that she truly believes there is a ghost woman and her baby in that window.
	She and her friends freaked out after they saw the photo on her digital camera back in 2010 taken when they were hanging out on the front lawn of the unfinished home still being built at the time.
	Oliver said when we saw the ghostly figure, the boys climbed up the scaffolding to see what was up there, thinking maybe someone was watching.
	But there was nothing up there.
	There were no floorboards or anything.
	Though the photo was taken almost five years ago, Oliver said it recently got widespread attention after she commented on a Facebook post about a fake ghost picture.
	Though some on social media believe Oliver's photo could be photoshopped, she insisted it wasn't, and added she hopes to get in touch with professional photo analysts and paranormal experts to solve the mystery of the ghost in the window.
	The town of Wim, where the picture was taken, previously made headlines about reported paranormal activity in 1995 when a photographer claimed he captured an image of a little girl's ghost.
	Take a look at the photos yourself and let us know what you think.
	was ravaged by a fire in 1677. Oliver concludes by saying, I didn't believe in
	ghosts before, but I do now. Actually, I've converted. Fake or real? Take a look at
	the photos yourself and let us know what you think. Darkmatternews.com.
	And with that, I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
	Thanks for watching.
	I'm Leo Ashcraft. I'm a journalist. I'm a scientist. I'm a journalist. I'm a scientist.
	I'm a scientist.
	I'm a scientist. I'm a scientist. I'm a scientist. I'm a scientist. I'm a scientist. I'm a scientist.
	the time. Once when you were mine. I remember your skies reflected in your eyes. I wonder where you are, I wonder if
	you think about me. Once upon a time, in your wildest dreams.
	And I'm not a liar.
	Midnight in the Desert.
	Exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network with Art Bell.
	Invite you to call now.
	1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	Alright, we are a new show, so here come the basic, best ways to call the show speech.
	Really the best way is if you have a smartphone, you can put Skype on your phone.
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	952-225-5278. 952-225-5278. Back now to Dr. Dvorak.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Yes.
	Let's stay with the multiverse for a moment.
	How might we actually find the evidence that, you know, really says, yes, there are multiple universes?
	Well, that's actually a different question from the multiverse.
	Well, multiverse.
	Yes.
	There was actually a report a few months ago of a discovery, and to put it in the scientific terms, it was a pattern in the B-modes of the polarization of the magnetic field on the cosmic background radiation.
	What that means is that Astronomers were able to see the edge of the universe, and that's radiation called the CMB, the Cosmic Microwave Background.
	And these people said what they saw were patterns on it.
	And if there are patterns on it, then there's something larger than the visible universe that produced those patterns.
	However, as they looked at more data, From other researchers, from other satellites, it was decided this was actually dust in the intergalactic region.
	And so all that fell apart.
	Oh.
	Oh, you had me going and then you crushed me.
	But it was intriguing.
	Now, I mentioned at my observatory, I've had a group of observers there.
	You've certainly heard of dark energy and dark matter.
	Oh my goodness, yes.
	Well, these people have started what is called dark flow, that there's a general flow to the visible universe.
	And let me illustrate this with an analogy.
	If you were floating in a swimming pool, and no matter where you were in the swimming pool, there's always a current going from one edge to another, you would conclude There's something outside the swimming pool producing this current.
	Probably.
	Okay.
	Because this current is always pulling you from one side of the pool to the other.
	And you say, well, there's got to be something outside the pool.
	So what these people look at are large clusters of galaxies.
	And they claim that large clusters of galaxies, they're all moving in the same direction.
	And the only way for that coherent motion to happen is that there must be matter, gravitational matter, outside the visible universe pulling it.
	Now, this is very much on the edge.
	Nobody has come up with any supportive evidence.
	This is a very minority view, but things like this can certainly change in very short time.
	So that's a possible way.
	You might be hearing more about this concept of dark flow.
	Also, have you talked much about inflation theory in astronomy?
	Everything's going away from everything, right?
	That's right, but there was this burst of inflation very early on in the history.
	This was an idea that was first developed by Alan Guth at MIT.
	It has a lot of very attractive, it explains a lot of things in the universe, but if this inflation theory is correct, then there has to be a multiverse out there.
	People are desperately trying to figure out if inflation theory is correct or not, and so far it's passed every test, but it's not definitive yet.
	And I know I'm wrong, but somehow I imagine rapid inflation occurring as a result of a Big Bang.
	Well, the Big Bang comes after.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	What you and I know as the Big Bang is sort of the coasting that goes on after inflation.
	Exactly what powers inflation isn't clear either, because we're getting down to where General relativity and quantum physics have to meet, and we still don't understand the way to put those together.
	As Brian Green at Columbia University has said many times, the physicists have been playing a con game to everybody for a hundred years.
	Really?
	We have this theory called general relativity that explains things in a very intense gravitational
	field and on large scale, and then we have quantum physics that explains things on very
	small atomic scale. But those two things are incompatible, those are inconsistent. We have
	two theories of the universe, and the universe should have only one theory. There should
	just be one fundamental. And until we can marry these things together, we are going
	to have these difficulties.
	I'm going to give you a chance to try and explain something to me that I ask most people
	of your caliber.
	Um...
	Quantum physics is fascinating to me, and quantum entanglement... Boy, I'm having such a hard time with that.
	You know, I'm a ham operator.
	I understand communications, but I don't understand how two things can act in unison, no matter how far they're separated, without a form of communication that we don't begin to understand.
	You're exactly right.
	Einstein called it spooky action at a distance.
	It's spooky, all right.
	It's not at all intuitive, but it's the way the universe works.
	And to put it on a fundamental level, we now live in a world with cell phones and Xerox machines and computers, right?
	Yes.
	All of that came out of quantum physics.
	We are now into what is known as entanglement physics.
	And so, the technology of the 21st century, people say, is going to come out of entanglement.
	And exactly what's going to come out is, of course, very intriguing.
	To say the least, I mean... One thing that's being built is the quantum computer.
	Right.
	And if the quantum computer, if you can actually build it, it means there are parallel A universe is out there.
	That's the only way to explain the way a quantum computer works.
	Doctor, does that mean if we could build one, we could talk to another, or perhaps communicate with another universe?
	Well, we're not sure.
	We're not sure how communication goes across that.
	Right.
	Or whether, what the effect is.
	On the electromagnetic radiation, which everyone knows is light, Might not go across, but gravity would go across.
	And this is why people are searching for waves in the gravity field.
	These would go across other dimensions, the multiverse and so forth.
	And so far all we have is circumstantial evidence for the existence of gravity waves.
	If we ever get concrete evidence, that's a game changer.
	Teleportation is a reality now, but it's only on the atomic level.
	And people are trying to see, can you actually teleport something that is macroscopic?
	Nobody has done it, but that's where the edge of that part of science is.
	And that of course changes everything in terms of our culture, our technology, and so forth.
	So, right now, Quantum entanglement, in terms of trying to get an explanation for it, we might as well call it magic.
	That's how much we understand.
	It looks like magic.
	Yeah.
	Because it's not intuitive to us.
	But remember, we live in a universe that is low energy and is cold.
	And much of the multiverse is probably not like that.
	It's reason to think that because of the Big Bang, The part of the multiverse that we grew out of got cold and very low energy density.
	That's what we see out there at night.
	But most of the multiverse is probably not that.
	In fact, there's probably not neither time nor space in most of the multiverse.
	Time and space is sort of an illusion that we see because it's cold and dark around here and low energy.
	We understand so little about ourselves at these levels, my goodness.
	That's right, and it comes down to the same questions people have been asking.
	Where am I in the universe?
	Am I alone out here?
	Where did all this stuff come from?
	We're still trying to answer those basic questions.
	As a man of science, when confronted with religious faith, conviction, how do you find yourself coming down?
	Well, whenever I teach a class, I almost always begin by asking my students to tell me something that's true.
	I come up with the question, how do you know something is true?
	And the punchline is, there are different ways of coming to truth.
	There are various rules that we use in science.
	There are various rules that we use in the court system.
	To find out if somebody's guilty or not.
	There's faith.
	These are different components of culture that people are using different rules to figure out what is true and what is not.
	And as you grow old, what you accept will actually shift around.
	So people with faith, I respect them a great deal.
	It's only when people speak things that are inconsistent or dogmatic to me that it really rubs me raw.
	But I certainly respect there are different ways of pursuing truth.
	Sure, sure there are.
	And it's interesting actually that the current Pope seems to be kind of moving religion perhaps more toward science ever so small steps at a time.
	And science sometimes moves toward, you know, the theory of how it all began.
	Not in seven days, but nobody knows.
	I mean, there is that instant, one second before the Big Bang, we have no idea what happened, right?
	Well, that's right.
	I forget what it is.
	We go down to 10 to the minus 20 seconds, and we know the physics to that point, but not before.
	One thing that has to be said is that as you establish truth in science, that has changed over time.
	What was considered a way of getting scientific truth 100 years ago is not the way that scientific truth is established today.
	So science, the way we do it, and the way we accept Research and truth has changed over time.
	All right.
	Well, there hasn't been any absolute in science.
	One more question, then I've probably got to go to the phones.
	But how close do you think we are to building a quantum computer?
	I know they're fooling around with the very basics of it right now.
	Yeah, I'm very confused about the quantum computer and what it's going to take.
	Some people have claimed that they have built one.
	But most people will say, no, that's not it.
	That's not producing what's expected of a quantum computer.
	I'm not sure how close.
	I'm sitting on the edge of my seat, reading Nature and Science magazine, and seeing if somebody actually does it.
	It's going to change everything.
	Remember, a quantum computer makes most of our life obsolete, because now Your credit card is not secure anymore.
	All that security is gone.
	Right.
	All the military security is gone, which is why the Pentagon's extremely interested in seeing whether a quantum computer can be built or not.
	I'm worried about Windows 10, you know.
	I don't know.
	I've always been a Mac guy myself.
	Yes.
	Very quickly, I think we might have Sandra Yes.
	Hi Sandra, on Skype you're on the air.
	Hi there, I live in San Francisco and I'm loving your show right now because we're almost at a year from a year ago in South Napa there was a 6.0 earthquake and that really scared me and it wasn't, you know, so big in San Francisco but just how it knocked that city down.
	And I don't think the Bay Area, there's just so many new people living here.
	I want your guests to say how many days we really should be prepared because I'm a member of the Neighborhood Emergency Response Team and they say 72 hours but I think it's really five days.
	If it was a big one doctor, how long should she prepare for?
	I would say be prepared to be independent of any support for five days.
	Have enough water and food and so forth.
	And don't expect any communication or any help.
	But after five days, hopefully people will get to you.
	Well, we're trained to be self-sufficient in the N.E.R.T.
	program, and we're also trained to go into buildings when we're ready to just start finding people and help evacuate people, but it's a scary thing to think that it could be bigger than 6.0.
	So, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Am I still there?
	You're there.
	She's not.
	She hung up because something big was, a truck or something, was coming toward her.
	Oh, okay.
	What I want to tell her And this is something that we spend a lot of time thrashing about.
	If there's an earthquake like the magnitude 6 at Napa, the probability of a larger one in 72 hours goes way up.
	And so if there has been some destruction and you are going to start rescuing people, be aware that the ground could start shaking at any moment.
	Doctor, is there a way to know If an earthquake that you just felt is a precursor and something big is coming, or if it's just a one-off thing, don't worry about it.
	No, the only thing which we can do is give a probability of something happening.
	For example, the probability of a World Series earthquake, like the Loma Prieta, Happening over the next three days is like one out of 25,000 or something.
	If you have a Napa earthquake, the probability of a larger one in the next 72 hours is like one out of 20.
	So it goes way up for those next day or two.
	And people in my, people concerned about earthquake hazards and physics of earthquakes make a very strong point to the rescuers Understand, if you're going into a wrecked building, this thing could collapse on you.
	That's true, and it seems after earthquakes, people camp out on lawns and stuff like that for exactly that reason.
	They've seen so many buildings collapse, they just don't want to be inside anything.
	Right, and it is best, if it's possible, not to stay in a building during those hours.
	It isn't always possible.
	But one has to be aware of that.
	And even if you get a magnitude 4 earthquake, for the next couple of hours, you don't want to be standing on a ladder painting your house or in your car fixing it.
	Just do something else for the next few hours.
	That makes sense to me.
	Ladder is a bad place, definitely.
	And I'm on and off roofs all the time, putting up antennas, doing that sort of thing.
	Right.
	If you feel an earthquake, don't do that for a few hours.
	So when scientists say, don't worry, there's not going to be another one, and they do say that sometimes after an earthquake.
	I was not a precursor.
	They don't really know.
	Well, that used to be what was said, maybe some 10, 20 years ago.
	But that's not what is said today.
	All right.
	Stay right there, doctor.
	We'll be right back.
	Dr. Dvorak is my guest.
	Earthquakes, volcanoes, Quantum Theory?
	We're all over the place.
	Public number is 952-225-5278.
	Lines are definitely open now.
	952-225-5278. Lines are definitely open now. 952-225-5278.
	952-225-5278.
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	To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your Valangis and call 1952-225-5278.
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	Call Art.
	Well, alright.
	My guest is Dr. Dvorak, and he'll answer questions about earthquakes.
	I suppose if you're concerned about your area, you can ask.
	I know I did, so I understand that you do.
	Volcanoes?
	Possibly life beyond Earth.
	And of course, the multiverse.
	All topics that we're considering tonight are anything, frankly, for a man of science of this caliber.
	So here he is once again.
	Welcome back, Doctor.
	And let's see who's on the lines.
	Let's go to Orlando, Florida.
	You're on the air with my guest.
	Hi.
	Hi, my name is Dan.
	I wanted to ask two questions if possible.
	Sure.
	First of all, do you believe, does your guest believe that there's any truth to the charge or the claim that fracking contributes to triggering earthquakes?
	And could he comment on the case in Italy a few years ago, where I believe several seismologists were actually convicted, I believe of manslaughter, because they had failed to predict an earthquake that occurred.
	I believe their charge was reduced, but I wonder if he could comment on that.
	Actually, I heard about that, and I meant to ask about fracking, so thank you for both questions.
	Doctor?
	Oh yes, fracking, without a doubt, Can cause earthquakes.
	It doesn't always.
	However, there's a big unknown question here.
	And that is whether fracking could actually trigger a destructive earthquake.
	There's a lot of earthquakes going on in Oklahoma right now.
	Much more than have occurred in history.
	Right.
	And they are, well actually it's not fracking, it's not actually the fracking that's going on, it's the reinjection of wastewater that's going on.
	And that is producing these earthquakes.
	So that is a product of fracking, right?
	Well, fracking is actually putting down various types of chemicals at high pressure to actually break the rock.
	Mostly what's going on in places such as Oklahoma is putting down wastewater, and you put it down under pressure.
	However, if there's not enough stress in the crust already, It's not going to produce earthquakes.
	And there are many places where they're fracking and it's not creating earthquakes.
	So it doesn't always happen, but it can.
	I am familiar with the ones you talk about in Oklahoma that have just occurred.
	In fact, there's something odd going on with them, Doctor, and it is that people are hearing this gigantic bang just before the earthquake.
	Have you heard of that?
	Yes, that is one of the great unknowns in earthquake science, earthquake sounds.
	And people still scratch their heads and there's so many credible people have heard earthquake sounds.
	The problem is the sound travels slower in air than the earthquake travels in the ground.
	Okay.
	And so what you should do is feel the ground shake And then hear the rumble.
	But that's not what happens.
	You hear the rumbling and then the ground shakes.
	And people have been trying to figure out what's going... why this thing of earthquake sounds.
	So it's one of the things we don't understand in earthquake science.
	Gotcha.
	Alright, let's go to... Now what happened in Italy?
	Is there?
	There's plenty of guilt to go around here.
	That's right.
	In this part of Italy there were earthquakes going on.
	Government officials, I lived in Italy for three years, I knew some of these people, they went to the community and said that there was no chance of a damaging earthquake.
	What they should have said is that there is no increased chance of a damaging earthquake.
	I see.
	And because they said there's no chance of an earthquake, One happened, it did a lot of damage, fatalities.
	There's a different system of law in Italy, and they were charged and convicted, and most of them except for one actually was serving time in jail.
	It comes back to, as a scientist, how do I communicate things which are of concern with the public?
	Or even do I communicate under those circumstances?
	That's right.
	However, you have to tell them.
	You can't... If you try to hold a secret, the better the secret is, the more likely someone's going to hear it.
	That's why for like Mount Hood and Mount Rainier, I cannot tell you that those things aren't going to erupt next week.
	It's not very likely.
	We don't have any indication.
	But right now, There's very little risk of it.
	Well, I guess it's just not good in science, in these areas, to make definitive statements one way or the other.
	Gets you in trouble, I guess, huh?
	Well, it depends if you... It's a test of knowledge here.
	And it's also a test of the size of a scientist's ego.
	To be able to stand up and have a lot of attention and make these pronouncements, I mean, the ego goes way up.
	Well, for a while.
	But if you sit up there and you mumble around and you give all these qualifications that maybe this, maybe that, the public will say, what's the use?
	So you have to learn to actually communicate things.
	All right, here's somebody from one of those areas, Portland, Oregon.
	Hello, you're on the air.
	Hello, Portland.
	Portland, Oregon.
	Okay, can you hear me?
	I hear you, sort of.
	You don't have a really good connection, to be honest.
	I'm sorry.
	Sorry about that.
	Okay, better now.
	Go.
	My question was, you were talking about multiverses and black holes, and I was just wondering what your take was On the depiction of a black hole and multiverses in the movie Interstellar.
	Oh, yes.
	I loved Interstellar, except for the first 40 minutes.
	And I don't understand why the first 40 minutes were there.
	That was so, so slow.
	Interstellar got the time dilation exactly right.
	That is, going close to a black hole, you don't age as fast.
	And I thought the way that they did it was brilliant.
	What they did with the physics of the black hole was more of a Hollywood take than what happens in science and what we know about it, the physics of a black hole.
	I don't recall, I saw the movie, did they actually pass the event horizon?
	Yeah, he goes into the black hole, and it's a little confusing, but basically he exists in a tesseract, and he can go to any point in time in his daughter's life.
	That's right.
	If I had been an advisor on that film, I would have said, okay, let's not use a black hole, let's use a wormhole.
	A wormhole has that type of physics.
	However, nobody has proof of the existence of a wormhole yet.
	That's one of the very curious things in the history of physics.
	Einstein developed the General Theory of Relativity in 1915.
	Less than a year later, a German scientist called Schwarzschild found solutions.
	Two.
	One was a black hole, one is a wormhole.
	And now we have lots of evidence for the existence of black holes, But we still don't know if wormholes are a reality.
	You know, the end of that movie confused me a little bit, too.
	Did you watch it?
	They actually use a wormhole as a plot point for them to travel across the universe.
	Right, and that's what happens with a wormhole if they exist.
	Also, I had no idea what was the thing with the fight with Matt Damon.
	That didn't move the narrative along at all.
	You should be an advisor on a movie.
	Would you like to do that?
	Well, I would certainly entertain it.
	I'm actually an introverted person who doesn't like to be in crowds.
	That's part of why I live out in the middle of the Pacific.
	Well, Hawaii is, I don't know if you'd say it's crowded, but fairly so.
	And here you are on a radio show, thousands of people.
	You're doing okay.
	On this island, it's all rural.
	Well, that's true.
	That's true.
	All right, thank you very much, caller.
	And on Skype, I believe it's Nick.
	Hello, Nick.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Hi, and hello, Dr. DeVore.
	Oh, yes.
	Yeah, I had one comment to add just to the fracking discussion real quick.
	And I also had a question that has to do with a different area of your expertise.
	The other caller from Orlando brought up fracking and its effect on earthquakes.
	I live in Dallas, Texas.
	I've lived here for 20 years, never felt a single earthquake until the last year, and I literally have felt over 30 earthquakes in the last year.
	Wow.
	It's pretty weird.
	It's a big topic here, mostly out of the Irving area, but it's pretty scary.
	I just wanted to tell you that, and I think it's really frightening, because there have been 3.5s, 3.3s so far.
	But I mean, is there a possibility of fracking causing something bigger?
	You know, six?
	Because I don't think anything's built for that here.
	That's part of the ignorance.
	We know that fracking can produce earthquakes that are threes and fours.
	Whether they can actually produce sixes and sevens, we simply don't know.
	But, Doctor, earlier you did say there could be a Well, it's just a little bit scary.
	down the hill effect so if you produce a little one with fracking that could turn
	into a big one that might happen that might happen and that's why the research
	in trying to figure out what triggers a large earthquake is so critical
	and and the ignorance is very high on this on this question well it it's just a little bit scary uh... my brother was
	visiting in town recently and
	you know we were talking about the earthquakes and it got to the point
	point where there was an earthquake every two hours.
	And it got to the point where I was able to say, you know what?
	I think there's going to be an earthquake at 10 p.m.
	tonight, and I bet I'll be right within 10 minutes.
	And at about 10.15, there was an earthquake.
	Well, I'm curious.
	Very unusual.
	What are the officials in the state of Texas telling you?
	No big deal.
	We're talking about it, I guess, in the city council meetings.
	It's not a, I don't know, I haven't, I guess I haven't heard the official word from them, but it seems to be downplayed a bit.
	There must be a state geologist who has to issue an actual statement.
	I guess, yeah, I haven't looked into that, but it's definitely interesting.
	I had one other question, not exactly related to earthquakes, but it does have to do with something I know I have to give you the non-scientific answer, okay?
	The one that is the passion in me.
	life in our solar system.
	I'd love to get your just quick thoughts on the possibility of life on Europa or Titan,
	and if you think that there's any significance to those claims.
	I have to give you the non-scientific answer, okay?
	The one that is the passion in me.
	And that is microbial life is probably all over the solar system.
	Because we know that microbes, the deepest drill holes that have ever been put into the
	earth, they find microbes.
	You find them in those hot mud pots at Yellowstone.
	You find them in the ice in Antarctica.
	And the reason that they're probably spread all over the solar system is because a large impact will throw rocks out that will land on another planet or moon.
	And there certainly has been plenty of opportunity.
	But that's not a scientific answer.
	That's just one out of passion.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	Great show tonight.
	Right.
	Good night.
	Thank you, caller, and take care.
	Hello there on the phone.
	You're on the air.
	Yes.
	The doctor probably more or less answered my question about the possibility of eruptions of meth in the air.
	I was wondering what his thoughts were The possibility of an eruption of Yellowstone is non-zero.
	That is, it's extremely low, but it's not zero.
	It's erupted many times in the past.
	It is certainly going to erupt in the future.
	that earlier but sure. Sure the possibility of an eruption of Yellowstone is non-zero. That is,
	it's extremely low but it's not zero. It's erupted many times in the past. It is certainly going to
	erupt in the future. There is a very large body under it that's molten and at some point part of
	that is going to come out of the ground.
	Whether it comes out tomorrow, or whether it comes out hundreds of thousands of years from now, no one knows.
	Yeah, I was under the impression that it was like every 250,000 years or so.
	Well, there's always this tendency to try to think that nature operates like a clock.
	People think about in earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, that this earthquake is overdue.
	We're finding that things sort of cluster in time, like earthquakes do, but that is still very much debated in science.
	Well, thank you very much, Doctor, for the answer.
	And all the good luck in your new show.
	I'm really enjoying it.
	Well, thank you.
	It's very enjoyable to do.
	We're going to take a real quick break here and get back With Dr. Dvorak.
	Questions all over the map.
	Anything you've got, we'll handle it.
	Pick up a phone and give us a try.
	This is midnight in the desert raging in the night.
	I never can say goodbye.
	Bye.
	No, no, no.
	I never can say goodbye Every time I think I've had enough
	I'm not heading for my door There's a man in the house
	There's a very strange vibration, kissing me right to the core.
	You say I'm not around you, you know you love me fine.
	I'm not around you, you know you love me fine.
	Oh, it's so good, it's so good, it's so good, it's so good, it's so good.
	Oh, I'm not around you, you know you love me fine.
	Wanna take a ride?
	Exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	This is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
	To call Art, please dial 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	You know, I really do suggest that you put these numbers in your phone.
	Put MITB in your contact list.
	And then, of course, put the Skype MITBs in and you can dial us.
	Yeah, free of charge.
	I mean, most people have national calling plans now, and so calling across the country, or even across the world, is a piece of cake.
	We really do live in a different world these days.
	I mean, a completely different world.
	Doctor, welcome back.
	Yes.
	It is a new world.
	It really is, in so many ways.
	Do you have the feeling, Doctor, that technology is quickening, accelerating, I'm not sure.
	I'm also interested in history, and people have been saying this for decades, a century, of how fast things are changing.
	And so I'm not really sure about that.
	Things are changing in a different way, and that's what history is about.
	The world is not static.
	No, it is not.
	But technological advances are To me, it seems they're really ripping.
	In some aspects, they certainly are.
	But when somebody started installing a telegraph, that was a big step up.
	The steamboat was a big step up.
	So yeah, things do move along through history.
	I'm thinking of my iPhone as a big step up.
	We cannot choose the part of history we live in.
	So we're spectators to it.
	It's just really hard to figure out how people a hundred years from now are going to look back on us and say, well, they were immoral in this way, or what they were going to go on.
	While we're on that subject, do you think that travel in time, forward, backward, any way at all, will ever be possible?
	If wormholes exist, then time travel exists.
	And the question is whether wormholes exist and whether you're able to keep them open long enough to pass anything through, like yourself.
	All that is open.
	Right now, all the physics says, no, no, no.
	But all the physics also said no, no, no about black holes for a very long time.
	They sure did.
	My deepest passion in my life, ever since I was four years old, is mathematics.
	I've been so intrigued by mathematics.
	And the mathematics says wormholes exist.
	And many a night, when we do a long exposure at the telescope, I go outside, I look up at the stars, and I say, I wonder where all the wormholes are.
	I wonder if you'd see them at all.
	Well, that is a good question.
	Nobody has come up with what they would actually look like, even if you had a picture of one.
	Well, I saw Jodie Foster go through one.
	Yeah, I like that movie a lot.
	My favorite movie of all time, frankly, is Contact.
	I love, love, love Contact.
	Yeah, and that movie was not about science.
	Carl Sagan even said, this is about faith.
	Yes.
	What is faith in your life?
	Yes.
	And people said, really?
	And they said, yeah, that's what I was writing about.
	I'm not writing about time travel or science.
	I'm trying to tell you about faith and what it does and the component it plays in your life.
	Oh, you are so right.
	You are so right.
	That is what that movie was all about.
	Calgary, Alberta, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I've just got a couple of things.
	First of all, well, it's somewhat about an earthquake, but first of all, I know Some people don't believe in coincidences, but how about this one?
	The moon is just far enough away from the earth that during its full eclipse, it blocks out the sun exactly.
	Right.
	So it wouldn't be enough any further away, or it wouldn't be enough.
	And you're suggesting when you say that, what?
	It was put at that distance, maybe, somehow.
	By a creator.
	Who knows?
	Okay.
	And just one other thing, something I've heard since I was a kid, that during an earthquake, or before an earthquake, like dogs or other animals know what's coming.
	That's right.
	Is there any studies on that, or is that just a tale?
	Well, Doctor, how about that?
	I mean, animals certainly sense them before we do.
	Is that fair to say?
	Not quite.
	No?
	If you're with a friend, and one friend is standing, and okay, you're in a room, and you're lying on the ground, and your friend is standing, you will feel the earthquake first.
	And I know many people have said this, you know, I was at home, I was lying on the couch, and I felt the earthquake, and my wife didn't in the kitchen until later.
	Right.
	What is happening here Is that people have heard of the P and S waves go by.
	The S wave carries almost all the energy, but it's slower.
	And so if you're lying on the ground, you have a better contact with the ground and you're feeling the P wave.
	And if you're standing, you're probably not, what you're feeling is the S wave, which comes later.
	And so that's probably what they're feeling.
	In terms of the animals, people who report this are very sincere, without a doubt.
	But as I mentioned before, it's not consistent.
	You don't buy it?
	Well, it's anecdotal.
	And so what they're reporting, as far as I, is true.
	What they saw is true.
	The question is, Because it's not consistent, that's not a scientific observation.
	It has to be internally consistent.
	Right, but sometimes what is anecdotal becomes definitive.
	And that's excellent.
	A lot of science eventually is born out of things that are anecdotal.
	And it's a question of trying to figure these things out.
	As to all this noise that comes down of all these stories, which one is going to tell us more about the basic physics of earthquakes?
	Okay, fair enough.
	Anybody with an anecdote, I certainly believe that they're telling me the truth.
	That's what they saw.
	Right.
	All right, Cameron, you're on the air with Dr. DeVore.
	Oh, good evening.
	Good evening, doctor.
	Oh, good evening.
	Yes.
	Before I get started, me and the guys would like to say you have some lovely birds in the background.
	Yeah.
	Well, those are actually frogs out there.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Well, this should be entertaining.
	Well, it's loud to me every night.
	So you let me think they were birds this whole time.
	You mentioned that the sun was going down and I thought they were birds.
	Later on the show, as it got darker, I said, no, those are frogs.
	And usually I have a couple in the house.
	But I don't have any in the house tonight.
	Those are all outside.
	Okay.
	Frogs.
	Caller?
	So, anyway.
	Go to your caller.
	Yeah, I was wondering about Cascadia Subduction Zone.
	I've read a couple things recently about the effects of that.
	Oh, that would basically drop into the plate because it's a major conversion zone for a couple of plates.
	And they say like the tsunami would wipe out clear back to like five in Seattle.
	What would somebody standing in like, between Idaho and Washington, North Idaho and the border Washington, what would somebody feel up there in the farmhills where it's rolling in the soil is like, Alluvial silt and clay.
	All right.
	Well, if you're at that distance, say the border of Idaho and Washington, what you'll feel is the shaking of the ground.
	It won't be very strong.
	In fact, it will be rather slow shaking.
	Most of the energy of the very fast waves have already dissipated.
	And so it's mostly just the shaking.
	People will probably feel that earthquake as far as Montana, maybe the Dakotas.
	And probably down to Arizona.
	That's a fair way.
	Doctor, hold tight.
	We're at a break point.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Midnight.
	I'm Art Bell.
	When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful.
	A miracle.
	Oh, it was beautiful, magical.
	And all the birds in the trees, they'd be singing so happily.
	Oh, joyfully.
	Oh, playfully.
	Watching me.
	Oh, come on now.
	Think of her.
	For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcroft.
	We Earthlings listen to them all the time.
	A baby cries, a bus rolls by, the wind keens and rains fall.
	These sounds and many more are included on NASA's Golden Record, a compendium of sounds of our planet that traveled out into space with the twin Voyager 1 and 2 missions in 1977.
	The phonograph disc itself was 12 inches and made from copper-plated gold.
	Previously, the tracks on the album were available as individual clips, but NASA this week released them as an entire recording available to listen to on streaming music service SoundCloud.
	You can pretend you're an alien way out somewhere in the universe, encountering a Voyager spacecraft and listening to an audio introduction to what Earth was like in Footsteps, morse code, laughter, fire, a barking dog and an elephant.
	The sounds on the record were chosen by a committee headed up by famed astronomer astrophysicist Carl Sagan.
	As NASA notes, it was intended to communicate a story of our world to extraterrestrials.
	The Golden Record was created before the age of the Internet.
	Would a new Golden Record today skip the sounds of a horse and cart and instead include a cell phone ringing or the clicking of a computer keyboard?
	To listen to the entire Golden Record, visit darkmatternews.com.
	UFO watchers are in a tiz over the discovery of an ancient skeleton with an elongated skull that resembles an alien.
	The humanoid skeleton was unearthed from a site known as Russia's Stonehenge, and it's being heralded as proof that aliens visited Earth thousands of years ago.
	However, archaeologists don't share the same view as alien hunters, insisting that the skeleton belonged to a female from a tribe that used to bind the head to make it grow out of shape.
	Read the full article at artbell.com.
	Got news, tips, questions, comments, or suggestions?
	We'd love to hear from you.
	Visit us at darkmatternews.com.
	A mystery over a group picture.
	Everyone was having a good time until they noticed that they were being photobombed by a ghost.
	Nothing out of the ordinary seemed to be going on when the photos were taken.
	But when they took a closer look, that's when they said they noticed a shadowy figure peering out of them from the second story window.
	Natasha Oliver and her friends were hanging out in her hometown of Wim, in Shropshire, UK.
	Oliver told ABC News that she truly believes there is a ghost woman and her baby in that window.
	She and her friends freaked out after they saw the photo on her digital camera back in 2010, taken when they were hanging out on the front lawn of the unfinished home still being built at the time.
	Oliver said when we saw the ghostly figure, the boys climbed up the scaffolding to see what was up there, thinking maybe someone was watching.
	But there was nothing up there.
	There were no floorboards or anything.
	Though the photo was taken almost five years ago, Oliver said it recently got widespread attention after she commented on a Facebook post about a fake ghost picture.
	Though some on social media believe Oliver's photo could be photoshopped, she insisted it wasn't, and added she hopes to get in touch with professional photo analysts and paranormal experts to solve the mystery of the ghost in the window.
	The town of Wim, where the picture was taken, previously made headlines about reported paranormal activity in 1995 when a photographer claimed he captured an image of a little girl's ghost at the ruins of the town hall that was ravaged by a fire in 1677.
	Oliver concludes by saying, I didn't believe in ghosts before, but I do now.
	Actually, I've converted.
	Fake or real?
	Take a look at the photos yourself and let us know what you think.
	darkmatternews.com darkmatternews.com
	darkmatternews.com To cast your ray of light into the darkness, please call 1952.
	Call Art.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	Again, everybody, we have included now the Leo Ashcraft newscast in the podcast, because so many people asked for it.
	It is very, very unusual, to be sure, unlike any other newscast you hear.
	And he does quite the job, no question.
	My guest is Dr. John Dvorak.
	He is in Hawaii with a bunch of frauds, I guess.
	Welcome back, Doctor.
	Well, thank you.
	Lots of people want to ask questions, so let's rage along and see what we find.
	Wherever you are, you're on the air.
	Hi, this is Patrick in Richmond, Virginia, listening on WTWW shortwave.
	It's 5085 kilohertz.
	That's the way to give a promo!
	That is packing a whopping 100 kilowatt signal, and I think it's lighting up the ionosphere worldwide.
	My question for your guest is, according to Einstein's famous equation equals mc2, one has to realize that c2 is simply a constant of 90 quadrillion.
	So, if you divide Both sides of that equation by 90 quadrillion, you get energy divided by 90 quadrillion equals mass.
	It seems to me impossible that mass could hold all that energy without just vaporizing or dissolving or blowing apart.
	Could it be that this is a placeholder where some of that energy has to be transferred to a higher dimension in order for it to exist as stable gravitational producing mass?
	Well, the equation E equals mc2 just tells you that mass and energy are the same thing.
	I think the question you're asking is whether part of that energy or mass could actually go into other dimensions.
	That's actually a very good question to ask, because people are doing experiments to find out, like we mentioned, the quantum computer.
	If the quantum computer works, That implies a parallel universe.
	And the question is, what do we mean by a parallel universe?
	It would be a different dimension.
	And this may sound strange, but they're trying to measure the distance between our universe and that universe.
	And to get into that, we actually have to talk a great deal of topology as to the way you do this in a 4, 5, or 20 dimensional space.
	And as you can tell, I don't think I'm prepared to talk about the multiple dimensions.
	I was going to say, it's sailing over my head.
	Yeah, but there is this question of the gravitational energy, does it actually seep
	into these other dimensions?
	That is a legitimate question.
	I've heard it said, doctor, that that is, if we're going to discover another dimension, that's how we're
	going to do it, by gravity.
	Right, and the explanation, you know, of the four fundamental forces,
	the strong force, the weak force, and the gravitational force in there,
	People have said, why is the gravitational force so weak?
	It's so much weaker than the rest.
	And one explanation is because it goes through all these other dimensions, and the strong and weak force stay only in the three dimensions that we have.
	Okay, Colin, I think that's the best we can do.
	Thank you very much for the call, and take care.
	Let's try, well let's see, how about Jess on Skype?
	Arbel, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Fantastic to have you back.
	Good to be here.
	As opposed to the alternative.
	Anyway, do you have a question?
	I do, sir.
	Okay.
	So, I live in Iowa, and approximately around May or June, Early part of June I heard what was a loud bang or it sounded like a car crash.
	I was sitting with three or four other gentlemen that evening and we heard the bang and nobody could really explain it.
	Now I'm kind of Google searching that there was an actual earthquake at New Madrid that night.
	Can Mr. Dvorak explain?
	We're four and a half hours away from there.
	Dr. Dvorak.
	I'm sorry, Dr. Dvorak.
	No, no, that's fine.
	John is okay.
	It's a good question, doctor.
	These big bangs, we're getting reports of these all over the place ahead of earthquakes.
	What in the world?
	I don't have an answer.
	I would need more information as to exactly the timing and so forth.
	But as I mentioned, earthquake sounds are real, but we don't understand the physics of them.
	Caller?
	Thank you very much for the information.
	Right, thank you for the call.
	Yeah, these really are strange.
	These sudden bangs are just plain weird.
	You know, when Lewis and Clark, in their journals, when they went across the Great Plains, Lewis writes about bangs, and people have scratched their heads.
	What is he hearing out there?
	The weather is clear.
	And of course, when he talked to the people who were living out there, they said, yes, these happen.
	And we're not sure what that is.
	All right.
	Being not sure is OK.
	Dustin on the phone.
	No, I'm sorry.
	Pottstown on the phone.
	You're on the air.
	Yes.
	My name's Mike.
	I'm actually calling you from Hagerstown, Maryland.
	OK.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening, Dr. Dvorak.
	My question is, Are you familiar with Charles Hapgood's theory of the Earth's crustal displacement?
	It's the whole slippage of the entire crust of the Earth on the lithosphere as one solid motion.
	It's believed that, you know, the theory says that the Earth could have actually slipped as much as 40 degrees, where the core, the mantle stays in place and maintains its axis.
	But this does not conflict with the idea of plate tectonics, because plate tectonics, of course, they write with plates right on the lithosphere.
	And I think the theory originally started, it was a Russian study back in the 40s and 50s.
	And Charles Hapgood caught on to it and He presented it to Albert Einstein.
	Einstein gave it some credibility.
	He didn't really acknowledge it as something that he was going to sign on to, but he didn't discount it completely.
	And my interest in this is the idea that recently there has been borehole drilling in Antarctica, and some of the specimens that have come up have shown tropical plants.
	that were frozen nearly instantly.
	And if this crustal slippage did actually happen, it could have brought Atlantis from near the equator down to where Antarctica is today.
	And then that would tie in with some of the ideas of why Hitler and Nazi Germany were so interested in Antarctica.
	Wow.
	Anything to that theory, Doctor?
	Well, it's very interesting, without a doubt, but I have to plead I'm ignorant about it.
	Okay.
	It is true that they found tropical plants, of course, for example, at the North Pole, I think.
	Yes.
	Antarctica and so forth.
	Absolutely.
	Right.
	And that's because of the drift of the tectonic plates.
	These things go back to very early parts of the Earth's history.
	I know what I want to ask you about.
	With regard to earthquakes, I remember a really deep earthquake.
	It was like 400 miles down in the Earth that occurred, and it was felt all over the East Coast.
	I mean, all over the place.
	It was just amazing.
	How can you have earthquakes Well, in the areas where the crust is going down into the earth, like in Japan or South America, those earthquakes can originate down that deep.
	And that's because it's a cold part of the crust that is going down.
	But exactly what the mechanism is, isn't clear.
	If it's a sliding of rocks, which is what happens near the surface, people have also suggested it's a phase change in the minerals.
	They said it rang the earth like a bell, they said.
	Yeah, a large earthquake will go around the earth and it rings like a bell.
	You're right.
	Dustin on Skype, you're on the air, hi.
	Art, good evening.
	Welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Dr. Dvorak, fascinating topic you've been discussing.
	I do have a question regarding what we call the expanding universe.
	Okay, you're kind of coming and going on your connection here.
	The expanding universe.
	Go ahead.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes.
	Is there a physical boundary at the edge of the expansion?
	And if so, what might that be?
	And further, if so, what might lie beyond that?
	God bless you.
	I'll take my answer on the air.
	Thank you.
	All of us wonder.
	Well, there is an edge to the universe.
	The easiest way to think of it is that it's an edge in time.
	The universe is only so old and light can only travel so far in that time frame.
	There is a physical edge to it.
	There's a wall of radiation.
	And as I mentioned earlier, it's known as the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation.
	And we've known about this since 1965.
	That's as far as radiation is able to go.
	And that is what you and I say is the universe.
	And the question is, for many reasons, some observations for inflation theory, there must be mass and energy beyond that.
	And exactly what it is, how similar or different it is from us, that's what people are trying to figure out.
	But that gets us into the question of the multiverse.
	Right.
	And there's certainly In terms of thinking of geometry and so forth, yes, there is mass and energy that exists beyond.
	And as I mentioned earlier, the multiverse is mostly a froth of energy, probably very dense.
	And our universe that we see out there is this cold, low-density thing that has space and time to it.
	And that's not what most of the multiverse is like.
	But there is an edge to the universe out there.
	When I go to the telescope, there's a limit to how far I can see.
	What is that limit now?
	Well, that limit is, on the cosmic microwave background, what we see of it is at 13.7 billion light years.
	But the part we see, the light left a long time ago, right?
	And it continued to expand.
	And so what we're seeing now is probably out about 46 billion light years.
	Another way to think about it, if you're standing on land and you look out to the ocean, and there's a ship sailing away, And this ocean is sort of expanding, and the ship is riding the ocean.
	Eventually, it's going to go beyond what you can see.
	Right.
	And that's sort of what people are trying to explain is going on here.
	The universe, as we know as astronomers, is that part that is confined with the electromagnetic radiation, the light.
	Yes.
	But there's mass and energy outside of it.
	The thing is, finding experimental proof for it, and that's what people are working extremely hard on, trying to find experimental proof for it.
	Right.
	What did you say, about 46 billion years?
	That one stumped me.
	Oh, okay.
	So this wall that we see, that 13.7 billion years, because it's expanding, what we see is in the past.
	I've got that, right.
	And so, what we see was 13.7 billion years ago.
	Right.
	But that has moved away from us.
	Right.
	And you just do on the calculations, that horizon is now 46 billion light years away.
	I'm trying to not say now, because as we know from general relativity, there is no actual now in the universe.
	Because all the clocks are going at different rates.
	Right.
	I'm just not getting it.
	I understand 13.7.
	There's an atom that's sitting out there at 13.7 billion years.
	That I get.
	Which we got radiation from, which I'm receiving at the telescope tonight.
	Got it.
	at thirteen point seven billion years and i get which we got radiation from which which which i'm receiving
	at the telescope tonight dot it
	that adam in those thirteen point seven billion years has moved away
	and it is now forty six billion light years away from me See, what I thought is that atom had moved away, yes, and was now 13.7... No, that atom is 13.7 billion years ago for the light that I'm receiving tonight.
	But where is that atom now?
	Because, see, it took time for that light to get to me.
	Okay.
	And as that light's traveling to me, the whole universe is expanding, and so that atom has moved out another 30-some billion light-years.
	Okay.
	I guess.
	Okay, I'm going to have to meditate on that.
	I just don't grasp it.
	Sedalia, Missouri.
	Thank you.
	North Hollywood, you're on the air.
	It says North Hollywood.
	Hello?
	Going once, going twice.
	Gone to Portland, Oregon.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Oh, well, welcome back, Gert.
	Thank you.
	Not a lot of time, so you're going to have to get it out quickly.
	OK.
	I was just curious what your guest's theory is on why Adams, to begin with, organized in such a manner that causes this world that we live in.
	I mean it's like such a, you know, it's just so complex and such a, you know, right down
	to the earthquakes and...
	Well, that's a very good question.
	Philosophers have tried to solve it, and I don't think anybody's come up with a very good explanation as to exactly why.
	For me, Having a passion in mathematics, I say it's in the mathematics.
	Very few people will accept that.
	I know.
	I know.
	And some will get downright angry about it, actually.
	But to me, it's all math.
	Doctor, our show is ending.
	It's been such a pleasure to have you here.
	Well, I've enjoyed this greatly.
	Well, thank you.
	Is there a website or can people look you up and find out more?
	Not yet.
	I'll have a website come up in about a month, because I just completed two books, and it'll describe that.
	One is about earthquakes, the other is about volcanoes.
	What is the name of your next book?
	My next book is called The Last Volcano.
	It's about the man who started the study of volcanoes.
	That sounds ominous.
	The last... That'll come out in a month, and the one that's been out is Earthquake Storms, and it talks about The future destruction of California.
	Cheery, cheery.
	All right.
	Doctor, thank you so much.
	We'll do it again, my friend.
	I'm looking forward to it.
	Good night.
	And from the high desert to the nation and the world, thank you for being here.
	Oh, don't forget, folks, open lines tomorrow night.
	We're going to do something special, that's for sure.
	So be here or be whatever you don't want to be.
	Good night.
	Duck, duck, duck, duck repairing video music
	music music
	I've been looking for the answers all my life I've found you there.
	As the world we live in threatens I'll be heeding all the signs Have we lost our intuition?
	Are we running out of time?
	Midnight in the desert And we're listening Ooh, we're listening And we're listening Woo!

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