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July 27, 2015 - Art Bell
02:35:25
Art Bell MITD - Grant Cameron
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening.
Good afternoon, good morning, whatever the case may be, wherever you are in the wide
wide world which we cover.
you This is Midnight in the Desert, and I'm Mark Bell, and I only have two rules for this show.
Abide by them.
No bad language, and only one call per show.
That's it.
Those are the rules.
Now, I have some people that I always like to thank.
The great sound that you hear coming from this program, and it is great sound, is assisted and transported, and in fact, pretty much created by TELOS.
Great sound.
Joe Talbot, here in Pahrump, Nevada.
Thank you.
Of course, Telos is a worldwide corp as well.
Keith Rowland, my webmaster of forever.
Dr. J, who does a great job as my producer.
All of you, of course.
The Belgab website.
Shout out, guys.
Streamguys, they do a lot of delivery of packets for us.
LV.net.
They both deliver and, well, I guess it arrives and leaves by LV.net, so.
Then, of course, Peter Eberhardt.
He's our sales guy.
Now, it's going to be a long list, huh?
So, coming up tonight, we're going to be looking at abductions.
Actually, we have an abductee.
He wasn't going to be the original guest, but he is now.
He's not the original guest, but he's coming along now with Grant Cameron.
Investigates people who are abducted and so I thought it would be useful and my producer produced somebody at the last moment for me, Adam Ambrose, and we'll ask him about his abductions, plural.
Now one last thing that I must get to and that is how to call the program when you get around to calling the program.
This is something you can do right now actually.
Put Skype on your smartphone.
The coolest, best way to call this program is put Skype on your phone.
And then, please note the numbers for Skype.
Because what you can do is act like you're going to add me as a contact.
And even though I don't respond, it doesn't matter because then it appears on your list and you can just dial it at your whim.
So, in North America, Canada, the US, we have MITD55.
That's what you would, that's my Skype name.
MITD55.
If you're elsewhere in the world, we have MITD55.
MITD55.
So, there you have it.
Off in a moment to our guests, but there's a couple more things.
You know, There is a theory, right, about time jumping and the Bermuda Triangle?
Well, there's the case of, brought to us by Anomalous.com, Bruce Gurnon.
And his impossible jump forward in time, as he, get this, flew his small plane toward Bimini, about where it always occurs.
The reported being, surrounded by a strange, thick cloud, And ending up miles away with no accounting for the fact that a 75-minute trip had only taken 45 minutes.
Was it caused by some supernatural force?
The cloud itself?
We don't know.
But he was in the place where that stuff happens.
Oh!
The Obama administration has decided that the NSA has to stop listening.
Examining.
And will ultimately be forced to destroy millions of American calling records that it has collected under a controversial program leaked by former agency contractor, hero, traitor, you pick it, Edward Snowden.
He's one of the two.
With reference to the recent head-shakers, you know, the movie theater killings, one professor But psychiatry calls it the conversation we're stuck with.
A teachable moment growing out of horror.
You know, and that's... that's really all they can say about it.
They don't know, you know, what causes someone to do something crazy like that.
Two four-plus earthquakes in Oklahoma, but you know what, folks?
They were preceded by a gigantic BANG!
Remember we talked about You and I talked about bangs, right?
With Linda Howe and earthquakes?
Well, there you have it.
A big bang followed by two four-point earthquakes or better.
One more calling tip, by the way, folks, and then away we go.
And that is when you call the phone here, Uh, please, please, please, please, uh, do me a big favor and let it ring until it's answered.
I know sometimes you have to then redial if it doesn't get answered, but that's how it works.
Let it ring till it's answered.
We don't screen calls, so kaboom!
You're just on the air like that.
Alright, coming up in a moment will be our guests.
And it's going to be an interesting night.
If you want it, ever wanted to really know about abductions, You're going to find out as much as you wanted to know, I suspect, this night on Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell.
I'm a doctor.
Hi, I'm Asia Bell, and it's very late, so I'm sleeping.
I'm sleeping now.
But yo, Rick, so call my daddy, because he's awake, too.
The number is 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952, call us.
You know who that was, right?
5 5 2 7 8 that's 1 9 5 2 call us.
You know who that was right?
That was not Ross with a headache.
Good morning everybody.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Midnight in the Desert.
And away we go.
So, oh, what a night indeed.
Let's begin here.
Grant Cameron, he's going to be the main guest tonight.
He's a recipient of the 2012 Leeds Conference International Researcher of the Year Award, and the 2013 UFO Congress Researcher of the Year.
Wow!
He became a UFO researcher back in 75 after a personal sighting.
Yep, that'll do it.
He has extensively researched the role of the Canadian government, the President of the U.S., and the intelligence agencies in the cover-up in the UFO phenomenon as well, and the role of consciousness in UFO reports.
And I'm particularly interested in that part, consciousness.
So, let us bring on Grant and say good evening, Grant.
Good to have you.
Good evening, Art, and it's a pleasure to be on your show.
Okay, well, you know, I know I sprung this on you, but I thought it'd be pretty cool, since you're going to talk about this subject, if we would reach out and actually get a subject.
And we have.
His name is Adam Ambrose, and he is with us right now.
He is, Adam is, an abductee.
Adam, hello.
Good evening.
Good evening.
And can everybody hear each other?
Yes.
Excellent.
Yes, I can.
Okay.
All right, Adam, let us begin with you.
You've had many abductions, but there are two in particular that I want to talk to you about tonight.
was a schoolyard landing of a craft with mass witnesses.
Somewhere in the back of my brain, Adam, it seems to me I heard about this in a story on the internet or on the news or somewhere.
Is that possible?
This story has not been out on the national level.
It's been talked about a little on the internet recently.
Okay.
Although, yeah, you may be thinking of the aerial school landing.
That's gotten a lot of press.
I may be.
All right.
Tell me what happened at your school.
This was 1970.
I was quite young, actually.
I was eight years old.
This was New Jersey, North Upper New Jersey.
I was middle of the day.
It happened at recess time.
So, we all got dismissed out.
We were all on the playground.
Scattered was about 50 to 70 children.
This was a long time ago, right?
You're older than that now, right?
That's correct.
I'm 52.
Oh, okay.
So, a long time ago.
Continue.
It is.
Yes.
I do have quite a vivid recall of it, however.
I do have a good memory, and it's left a really strong impression on me, this particular memory.
So there were quite a number of students out, several dozen, and it was a fairly large area, grass, a lot of trees all around, so it was kind of secluded.
I don't remember who first noticed there was a strange object in the sky.
Somebody pointed it out, and I remember looking up and seeing an object.
It was about the size of a walnut at arm's length.
Maybe a little smaller at first when I first saw it.
And it was dark.
It was moving very slowly.
It was like drifting.
And at first I remember thinking, is that a blimp or is that like a hot air balloon?
Right.
I wasn't certain.
It was pretty far off.
So it comes closer and closer.
And we're all just standing there watching it.
I mean, everybody.
How many of you, roughly?
There was roughly 50 to 70 at least.
That's a lot of witnesses.
Yeah, and everybody's attention was on the sky.
And this object, as it drifted closer, it got lower very gradually also.
So, it's almost as if it was trying not to frighten us, looking back in hindsight, compared to some other sightings I had had.
It just kept drifting closer, probably over the period of a minute or two.
It took a while until it was over the treetops about 300-400 yards away.
By that time, it's pretty big, right?
Yeah.
By the time I saw it over the treetops, like 300 yards away, it was about, I would say, the size of a lemon at arm's length, maybe even bigger.
Okay.
It did this funny thing, as it got really low, it started to, it sort of, it didn't stop, but it did this turn to my right, and then swooped down, so it's not like it came straight down and landed.
Right.
It was moving toward us, and as it was moving toward us, it was also coming down.
So, at this point, once we start seeing it clearly, I'm like, that's a structured You're a multiple abductor.
not a hot air balloon, that's not an airplane. And I, because I've had, I've
been through this before, but I would only have this periodic awareness of it,
I knew what it was. All of a sudden I was like, I had a premonition.
Okay, so you're you're a multiple abductee. You've been abducted many times,
right? That's right.
Many times since early, early childhood.
All right.
So this craft, in front of all these witnesses, Adam, actually landed, right?
Right.
So that's what I was trying to say, that yeah, as it got close and just before it landed, I heard like some children started to get really frightened and some were actually screaming and yelling.
I was calm because I think at that point when it was that close, They had started to alter my awareness, which was what they would usually do.
Really?
I saw it land about 30 feet away from me, and it hovered, and then it didn't touch the grass.
I saw these three... Okay, excuse me, you're using two terms.
You say it hovered and it landed.
Landing implies to most people it touched the ground.
No, I meant... I think... Well, what I was saying was that Just before it landed, it hovered close to the ground, and simultaneously I saw legs start to protrude from the bottom of it.
So it was very gently coming down.
It just stopped above the ground, just enough so that these legs could come out.
And I remember just standing there transfixed, watching the legs come out and touch the ground.
Actually in shock.
I've had a big close sighting, and it puts you in shock.
At this point, yeah, definitely.
I was stunned.
I was not particularly feeling like a pitched fear, although, like I said, I was aware some of the other children were, because some were yelling.
And so we're just standing there looking at this thing.
Now, at this point, I think I had already slipped into the odds factor, what they call, where they had altered my awareness.
I was still very awake.
It's not like being in a trance.
I was very lucid and aware of what was going on.
So you were conscious?
Your consciousness was working just fine, okay.
It's just that they had taken away the fear from me, and not necessarily as effectively for others.
So now this craft is sitting about 30 feet away from me.
I see a door.
I don't know how else to explain it.
A pretty small, like a hatch, opened.
And there was this opening in the craft and the next thing I remember I saw a bright flash of light and I don't remember seeing like a being get out of the craft through the hatch but after the bright flash of light dissipated there was a translucent ball.
There was actually three of them and there was I could see inside it there was a being.
Inside each one.
And they floated.
They floated over the grass toward us.
Now, I was standing toward the back of the playground near the fence.
So, there was children surrounding it.
You know, there were ones in the back, way back.
But I had a good view, like front on view.
And the next memory is that this translucent ball just kept moving up closer and closer to me.
At some point in here, as it was moving closer and closer, it got quiet.
It got really, really just quiet.
You know, the kids that were yelling stopped.
And I could see around me that they were frozen like statues.
They were switched off.
And I couldn't move either.
I had this frozen state that came over me.
I was paralyzed.
I completely understand.
And by the way, Grant, Feel free to ask a question at any point during this you want.
Okay.
Continue.
You're frozen.
Well, so I'm essentially paralyzed and I can't move, not just paralyzed with fear, but physically can't move my legs like a statue.
So this is something also, again, I've experienced that before.
So I wasn't particularly alarmed by that aspect of it, but this, The creature got very close to me and the translucent ball dissipated, it disappeared and the creature was just standing in front of me, I mean two feet in front of me.
Holy Michael!
And I was aware that there was communication between me and the being.
Yes.
And I also could see in my peripheral vision the other two beings were Standing near a couple other children.
Now, the next thing I remember is that we were moving toward the craft.
Excuse me, I've got to ask.
You said there was communication going on.
What was imparted to you?
Well, see, that's the thing.
I cannot remember it like a conversation, literally word for word.
Okay, that's fine.
But you used that word, imparted.
I like that word because That's how I felt was that I knew that I was being prompted.
Like, I knew it was happening.
Like, this is going to happen.
We're going to... In fact, I do remember the words, come with us.
We want you to come with us.
Okay, there you go.
I remember that.
And so I was aware of what was happening.
I was very calm.
And like I said, it had gotten silent and the other children were very spaced out at that point.
So, we've got to keep this short.
Did you go with them?
Well, that's pretty much it, yeah.
I mean, I remember going in the craft, and I remember coming back, but I don't remember being on the craft, and then the last memory is standing there, and I remember coming to full awareness, and we're all just standing there, and it lifts up, and it's exactly the same way it came.
It drifted off very slowly.
And I remember the teacher, this is the last point, the teacher saw it because she came out, and I think she was inside looking through the window, because she came out and she was in a panic and she rushed us all in.
She said, come in, come inside.
And she was standing by the window and she was freaking out.
She was really upset.
Alright, look, I'm going to have to do a whole show with you, which I promise I will do.
In the meantime, I want to move on to the other one that you had.
You went through, I hear, a brick wall.
You actually went through a brick wall.
Is that true?
Yeah, that is correct.
That is correct.
A creature took you through a brick wall?
And more than that, I understand there was a witness to it.
Is that true?
That is true.
There was a witness to it.
Alright, lay it on me.
Well, this was a daytime event.
I was in school.
I was in the eighth grade and I was upstairs.
It was a two-story grade school and I was sitting in the classroom and suddenly I had what I don't know how to describe except as a premonition, an awareness that I was going to have an event.
I was going to be visited.
When I would have a visitation, I would have a premonition beforehand.
And I got the message in my head almost like an instruction in order.
Go downstairs to the bottom level which was actually the basement level of the building which was really kind of creepy down there.
It was dark and it was like this old building from like the early part of the century.
I was scared to go down there but I went down there and I was just waiting in the hallway and I knew at that point that I was going to be visited and I remember standing there in the hallway And looking down the hallway and this ball of light appeared.
It was different from the other one.
It wasn't translucent.
It was a solid ball of light and it was about the size of a basketball and it was moving up the hallway slowly toward me.
And I remember just standing there, frozen, transfixed, not afraid, but it came right up to me again.
Communication, and I remember specifically it said, come with me, follow me.
There was a janitorial closet which jutted out into the hallway.
It's kind of hard to explain, but anyway, it was like an L-shaped hallway.
You had to walk around the janitorial closet to get through this hallway.
So we walk into the janitorial closet, and I still didn't know what the heck we were doing going in there, but we walked to the back of the closet.
The being communicates with me again.
Just standing there, we're going to do this.
We're going to go in the classroom.
So I had been co-opted to assist in abductions.
I don't know if I said that earlier.
And this was from the time I was very young, and Bud Hopkins had told me I was one of the first cases of that he had ever come across.
So this is what I'm describing.
And it was a multiple abduction out of the school.
But I'm standing in the janitorial closet, and as I'm standing there in front of this being, I see The janitor come in the closet, and he's fully awake and lucid, and then all of a sudden he sees me standing there next to this creature, and I see this scared look on his face, and he's just standing there stunned.
Well, yeah, of course.
And then we, me and the being, I saw the being turn into a ball of light, I turned into a ball of light, and we teleported through the wall.
And we this is not the part that the janitor witnessed necessarily because I think he was switched off at that point.
But just to say real quick, we went down around the hallway into a classroom.
A student was taken out of a classroom and then we teleported through a lower window up into a craft which was hovering over the school.
I don't remember being on the craft again.
I do, however, have a lot of memories where I do remember being on a craft.
And this particular incident, I don't, but I remember coming back, and this isn't the part that you wanted to hear about.
When we came back, we did not turn into a ball of light.
We approached this brick wall, which I said this hallway was in this L shape.
Right.
So when we went through this wall, this inside wall of the janitorial closet was exposed to the hallway.
So we just walked through this wall, and then I remember seeing the janitor standing there, and then the being He teleported through the wall.
I came back into full consciousness and left the janitorial closet.
And the next day, the janitor came up to me and he said, I saw you yesterday.
He said, I saw you in the janitorial closet.
You came through that wall with some sort of a strange creature.
And he was freaking me out because he had never even spoken to me before.
I didn't know this guy.
Well, imagine, I mean, by now you've been through several abductions.
Imagine the poor janitor.
It's not every day you see a school child transported through a brick wall.
He was terrified and he just said, you're in danger.
Yeah, I've got that.
You're in danger.
Through a brick wall, my God.
Alright, this janitor and these stories, I mean, there's so much There's a lot of public witnessing going on with all of this that you would think it would be, I don't know, one of the biggest UFO stories in the world with witnesses.
You know what?
What?
I'm sorry, did I cut you off?
No, you didn't.
You said, you know what?
And I said, what?
But Hopkins, it just made me think of what he told me when I worked with him in the 90s.
Even he remarked, he said, well, that's unusual, witnessing.
And I said, well, I've had so many events, though, like I have a near photographic memory, and I have memory of hundreds of events going back to early childhood.
And I said, you know, I know that it's not uncommon, actually, to have witnessing.
And David Jacobs talks about that.
It's just that most people don't come forward.
And you have to remember, this was the 70s.
I was a little kid.
I didn't know that this was even happening to anyone else, and that janitor scared me.
It wasn't like I was... I remember telling my father.
I said, I thought I saw a creature in the house.
It was like it was just a dream.
It was just a dream, Adam, you know?
So I stopped talking about it.
That's the thing.
I didn't know who to... who was I going to report it to?
Well, I get it.
So in other words, all of this happened to you all your life, beginning at about what age?
Well, my earliest memory of an event, I was actually in the crib, and... In the crib?
All right, listen, I'm going to have to leave you now, and I'm going to thank you, and we're going to do a whole show together, okay?
Okay.
All right.
Adam, thank you very, very much for joining us.
It's not every day that you get a kid, actually a grown-up now, Uh, who was seen walking through a brick wall.
It just... just doesn't happen with brick walls.
Anyway, my guest coming up in a moment, Grant Cameron, I'm sure, is gonna have lots to say about this.
you're listening to midnight in the desert.
For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft. This is one devilish controversy. A controversial
statue unveiled in Detroit. The group behind it took great efforts to make it a private
exclusive party. At least 100 people eagerly waiting for what's been kept well under wraps.
Some drove in as far away as upstate New York to see the satanic temple unveil a 9 foot
tall bronze statue of a goat-headed Satan. Security inside was tight. No cameras or media
was allowed in and no cell phone was allowed in.
We figured, well, if they're going to unveil a statue and show a statue, well, we're going to show the statue that beat this statue behind the scenes in reality.
It's recounted in the St.
John's Apocalypse that St.
Michael and his angels defeated Lucifer and his angels.
Members of the Satanic Temple, who say they stand for the separation of church and state, kept Mom Saturday night focused instead on showing their guests a good time.
Some came out of curiosity, others to appreciate the art.
And they say, don't knock it just because it's not your taste.
A sculpture or a piece of art or a tribute to something that they don't understand is not necessarily going to impact their religion or their beliefs.
There was so much abuzz about the night the Detroit police set up outside just to make sure the Satanists and the naysayers stayed civil.
In the end, the group made good on its promise to make it an exclusive event.
The guests that were patient enough to make it through the line were promptly sent out the back door, where outsiders can only imagine the real party awaits.
This is Dark Matter News.
The crew of a fishing vessel recorded a huge squid attempting to make off with a fish that they had caught, and it was all caught on video.
In the video, the squid is trying to eat a large fish, while the sailors prod the animal with a pole to drive it off.
The squid is about five times as big as the huge fish it's trying to snatch.
The massive creature makes a valiant attempt, but is eventually pushed away by the sailors.
It remains unclear which species of squid this one is.
There are two.
The giant squid which is long and the colossal squid which is broader and even larger than its cousin.
Not much is known about the species because only a few specimens have ever been caught or captured.
Giant and colossal squids are about 12 meters in length.
China has officially embarked on the next stage towards a new era of stargazing.
The construction of the largest radio telescope in the world began in 2011.
Now the panels that will make up the giant space-viewing machine are finally being assembled.
The telescope is called FAST, or the 500-meter Aperture Spherical Telescope.
On Thursday, technicians began inserting the 4,450 triangular reflector panels into place.
This whopping reflector will dwarf all other radio telescopes when it comes to its dish size.
Measuring some 1,640 feet in diameter, each equivalent triangular panel has a side length of 36 feet.
The second largest radio telescope built, the Arecibo Observatory, is in Puerto Rico and is 1,000 feet across in diameter.
The telescope will be nestled comfortably in a valley in the Karst Depression located in the Gizou Province.
This site was chosen because it is ideally located in isolation from towns or residents.
There is a three-mile area around the dish separating it from any people and therefore any interference.
A giant telescope of this size is a sensitive instrument and needs radio silence to pick up accurate signals.
They say the telescope's purpose is to help them search for intelligent life outside of the galaxy and explore the origins of the universe.
Fortunately for any tourists, the designers of the telescope have prepared for a certain level of public interest.
There's an observation platform being built on one of the hills surrounding the telescope, the best place to appreciate nature.
500 meter piece of technology that will peer into space on our behalf.
I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
If you could read my mind love, what a tale my thoughts could tell. Just like an old time movie about a ghost from
a wishing well. In a castle dark or a fortress strong, we'll be there to guide you.
If you could read my mind love, what a tale my thoughts could tell. Just like an old time movie about a ghost from
a wishing well. In a castle dark or a fortress strong, with chains upon my feet. You know that ghost is me.
And I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost in your mind.
If you could read my mind love, what a tale my thoughts could tell. Just like an old time movie about a ghost from
a wishing well. In a castle dark or a fortress strong, with chains upon my feet. You know that ghost is me.
And I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost in your mind.
You know that ghost is me. And I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost you can't see.
Midnight Matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness, like Art Bell.
To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
That's 1-952-225-5278.
Well, alright.
Adam obviously had a very great deal to say, and it was not served by the time we gave him.
It was very short, so we'll have him back for a full show, depending on that.
In the meantime, though, here comes Grant Cameron.
And Grant, you originally, I guess, you spent, what, 37 years looking into the role of government and intelligence agencies and things like that, and somehow, somehow, made a switch to researching abductions.
How did that happen?
Well, basically what happened is I had what I call a download experience that occurred in 2012.
In February I had this experience, but the main thing that made me move was sort of the frustration of spinning your wheels, not getting anywhere, and suddenly realizing that the President knows what's going on, Uh, the appropriations committee knows what's going on.
Uh, the intelligence agencies know what's going on, but they're never going to tell you.
And so, um, I suddenly realized, it dawned on me that If you really want to know what's going on with UFOs, I mean, you can watch stuff fly around in the sky and count how many green ones there are, how many fast ones and slow ones and, you know, all this kind of stuff, and you're never going to learn anything about what's going on because it really doesn't tell you anything.
It's not until you actually do what Travis Walton did, is run up to one and flag it down and have it take you on board.
It's not until you talk to somebody who's been inside the ship Okay, well I know Travis.
I've interviewed him multiple times.
No doubt I will again.
In fact, he did agree to an interview.
And his story is incredible.
Just amazing.
Sounds like you made your move for about the same reason I did.
I was talking about politics.
I couldn't stand it anymore.
answers are going to tell you okay well i i know travis i've interviewed him multiple
times no doubt i will again
but he did agree to an interview uh... and his story is incredible just
amazing sounds like you made your move for about same reason i did
i was talking about politics i couldn't stand it anymore was frustrating
one day i just stopped and i started talking about things like this because
well because they interest me So, sounds like the same reason, but you said you had a download experience.
Yeah, what happened to me was, and my most dramatic event was I had the UFO sighting 1975, and you had a dramatic one as well, and it's hard to explain to people who haven't had it, but it basically changed your life.
I mean, like, I fell off the edge of the earth when I saw this thing.
I just couldn't believe that I'd actually seen it, and it was up close, and there was no doubt.
I didn't really know exactly what it was, but I knew it was nothing that was on this planet.
And so, that was my first dramatic experience.
The second one was when I had this Download experience.
I'm sitting watching Colin Andrews, who is the guy who invented the term crop circles, and he's giving a lecture in Phoenix, Arizona at UFO Congress.
I go to the lecture.
I'm not interested in the lecture.
The only reason I went was because Colin Andrews was giving the lecture, and he's a high profile figure from ufology.
I figured I'd pay him the respect.
I'm in there.
I'm sort of not paying attention.
He's talking about consciousness and crop circles, and his theory was Do you think that's true?
eighty percent of all crop circles he was fired up a lawrence rockefeller
to do the uh...
find out who's behind the crop circles and he came to the determination that eighty percent crop
circles are created by hoaxes
twenty percent are real created by some sort of alien force and that this lecture that he gave was saying that the
eighty percent that are hoaxed are also being controlled by the aliens at the
aliens are telling the hoaxers what to put down
and you love it do you think that's true eighty percent
hoaxed I'm just giving Cohen Andrews figure.
I'm not an expert on Crawford.
No, I know.
I was just asking if you agree with that.
I mean, I've seen so many of them, and yeah, there's a few, I don't know, kind of funky ones, but most of them are gorgeous beyond... Beautiful.
Understanding of how they could have been made by a bunch of guys with boards and chains.
Yeah.
The ones I saw, I saw some here in Canada in the late 1980s and I was floored when I saw how these things were woven, how the wheat is all sort of woven together and stuff.
So I was very impressed by it.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
I didn't even ask.
You're a tasty Canadian?
Yes, I am.
I live just north of the North Dakota border and that's how I got involved.
Was that North Dakota had 300 nuclear weapons, Minuteman III nuclear weapons with 10 warheads, and in 1975 they put in 100 new weapons in North Dakota to shoot down Russian missiles, and that's exactly when on my side of the border, About 25 miles from the border, when they put these 100 new weapons to shoot down Russian missiles, that suddenly all these sightings started.
And they went on for a year, from February of 1975 till November of 1975, when they started taking the nuclear weapons out of North Dakota because of a treaty they'd made with the Russians.
Isn't that something?
I'm sure you're aware there have been many sightings over silos, and it's gone further than that, Cameron.
They've actually gone into launch sequence.
Yeah, and then when you take a look at some of the stuff now we know behind the scenes is, for example, the big one was the Malmstrom one, the ten missiles that were shut down at Malmstrom Air Force Base in 1967.
Yes, sir.
And we now know that Robert Salas, who was in the command module down below when this happened, He's an experiencer.
He's a lifetime abductee.
And it's almost like the aliens brought one of their own guys inside the thing.
It was like their own spy.
So you start looking at the intricacies of the UFO phenomena, and you realize it's much more complex than you originally think.
And by the way, it's not an American phenomena only.
The Russians had their own big deal with the launch sequence actually beginning.
I don't know if you know about that.
Yeah, and I think that's what the aliens are just basically doing, is they are sending signals.
They are sending signals that maybe you don't know what's going on, I don't know what's going on, but the people in government, I'm absolutely sure when they shut down a launch site like that, or when they leave a dead cow a couple miles downrange from a nuclear power plant, or a place where they're building nuclear weapons, I'm sure the message gets across, and the government knows exactly what's going on.
They know an awful lot more than you and I.
And I think a lot of what we see in ufology is just basically signaling.
It's almost like, I even say, with you and me.
You had a close encounter, I had a close encounter, and I say to people, I say, why do UFOs have lights on them?
We don't have lights on our planes, except for little navigation lights.
We don't have lights.
Why do UFOs have lights on them?
Well, certainly not the ones we want to hide, right?
Yeah, they want you to see it.
So if you see a UFO, you're part of the game.
Helicopters are black for a reason, and stealth aircraft are black for a reason.
They don't carry lights.
So you're right.
Sure, sure.
And so when they abduct people, Nobody sees anybody getting abducted.
You don't see the ship.
So when you see the ship, it's intended for you to see the ship.
And I tell people, if you've had a UFO sighting, you're part of the game.
You're part of what they're trying to do.
And I think the majority of what they're trying to do is just send us signals.
They're trying to make us think.
They're not giving us the answer.
They're making us think, what the heck's going on?
And the more people think, the more they talk about it, and the more people talk about it, The more it becomes like the gay issue, or the gay rights issue, that once you get to the point where everybody's talking about it, everybody's going to make the right decision as to what to do.
All they're trying to do is get people talking about it to raise consciousness.
I don't know about your analogy, but you're right about one thing.
Once you have seen something close up, either had an encounter, been abducted, or had a craft, in my case 150 feet above me, your life is never the same.
Exactly.
Alright, now download.
So I'm in this lecture, I'm not really paying attention, and as I said, for 37 years I'd gathered material together, and done documents and lectures and stuff like that, and suddenly it happened, and it happened instantaneously, three figures, three different items popped into my head, instantaneously at the same time, and they came with Absolute certainty.
People who describe download experiences will talk about this absolute certainty.
You don't have to check this.
You don't have to go research this.
This is the answer.
This is how it works.
You're absolutely certain.
And the other thing that comes with this great sort of excitement for two days, I just was vibrating for two days after this happened.
And what came to me was three things.
That I gathered together, but I'd never put them together.
I'd never figured out how they work together.
So he's talking about consciousness.
And in 2012, I couldn't have cared less about consciousness.
I couldn't have spelled the word.
I had no interest in it whatsoever.
And suddenly, what happened was, as I said, I chased the Canadian government.
The early 1950s.
There's a top-secret Canadian government document that I had quoted, Stanton Freedman has quoted, and we've talked about it endlessly.
It's a legitimate, top-secret Canadian government document from November of 1950, where the Canadians go to the Americans, and they're asking the American officials, what's the deal with flying saucers?
And they're told, Flying saucers are for real.
It's the most highly classified subject in the United States.
There's a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush who's trying to figure out what's going on, and that the subject is of tremendous significance to the Americans.
When this download, the first piece of the download came to me, it was the very next line in that document, and the very next line in the document said, And we were also told by American officials that other things might be associated with the flying saucers, such as mental phenomena.
And the Americans aren't doing very well, because they said if we're working on the problem, they're willing to exchange credentials and talk to us.
And this is through classified channels.
And suddenly I realized that this was very important, because in 1950, there was nobody talking to aliens.
The first contactees would not appear, Until a couple days after the detonation of the hydrogen bomb in November of 1952.
The first abductees were not Betty and Barney Hill.
That was in the 1960s.
In 1950, November 1950, nobody was claiming to be talking to aliens.
Okay, I'm going to have to ask you, slow down, slow down.
Just slow down.
I want you to back up a little bit.
What you said was exceptional about the communication to the Canadian government officials, so I'm going to ask you, Yeah.
Who was told what you just said?
The material came through the Canadian Embassy in Washington, D.C.
through the military liaison, whose name was Arnold Wright.
He was the guy that went down through intelligence channels and talked to high-level officials in the Defense Department in the United States.
Okay, so Arnold Wright told you this?
Arnold Wright told it to Wilbur Smith, who ran the Canadian government flying saucer program from 1950 to 1954.
Wilbur Smith put it in a top-secret document, which was part of the Department of Transport flying saucer investigation, which took place for the four years from 1950 to 1954.
Kind of like our blue book.
Yes, exactly.
And it was shut down in 1954, but this top-secret memo was... Stanton Friedman forced this out in 1978 when the Canadians released their documents.
They released all their files.
This top-secret document was found in those files, and the Canadian government does not deny that this is a legitimate top-secret document.
Wow.
Wow.
So, in Canada, can you do what we do here and submit what is in essence a freedom of information request and guess?
Yes.
It's called an access to information here.
Okay.
Have you done so?
Oh, most of the stuff has been filed and stuff has been brought out.
This is how it came out.
These files were forced out.
The defense documents were brought out.
The research department documents, the scientific documents.
The Canadians released their stuff back in the 1970s.
And after that, we really don't know who in the Canadian government is involved or what's going on.
But yes, all that stuff was filed early on.
We had our access to information request stuff going on long before the Americans had it.
Okay.
All right.
Now, let me stop you here.
I would love to see those documents.
Where are they now?
It's around.
It's on the Internet.
It's on my website.
The top secret... Okay, what is your website?
PresidentialUFO.com.
Okay.
PresidentialUFO.com.
That's not hard.
So the document is there.
Thank you.
Now, before we lose it, I want to go back to Adam Ambrose and the two stories he told, and I would like to get your reaction to them.
He's telling similar stories to what a lot of people.
He referred to the 1994 aerial sighting, where 62 school children in Rhodesia saw this UFO that had landed, and all these kids were getting communication from the aliens, and they were getting environmental messages.
Right, but this was here, not there.
He referred to that incident.
He referred to that one.
That's famous.
Now, of course, Adam's story is going to come down to whether he's got the witnesses.
The Ariel one, they have quite a few of these witnesses, and one by the name of Emily Trim has now even come forward.
I saw her in Brantford, Ontario about a month ago.
She's come forward with all the paintings.
She suddenly was able to do all these paintings and is now the first of these young school children who has come forward.
If you have Adam on, you have to make sure you have another one of the school children.
Well, actually, Adam has done a whole series of drawings from his memory, and I understand they're available.
We'll get that when we do a show with him, but, you know, his story sounded pretty legit to me.
Yeah, it has all the main factors.
Like he talked about the Oz factor, where time and space seems to stop.
This was described in the John Lennon sighting, where John Lennon has his sighting.
May Pang, who was with him, talks about this effect where all the people in the apartments
around looking off this penthouse where they were, nobody seemed to be home.
Everybody seemed to have disappeared.
The people on the balcony below her didn't come up.
It was like time and space had stopped.
So this Oz effect is quite common.
What Adam is describing is commonly described by people going through walls.
And we now sort of understand some of this stuff.
The idea of going through walls is not a big mystery anymore.
We now know, for example, in science, that for every piece of matter, there are 1 x 10 to the 52nd power pieces of space. That matter is all space. It's held
together by electromagnetic fields. And so if you're an alien and you
understand this, that everything is space,
if you have a person who's all space and a wall who's all space,
all you have to do is know how the electromagnetic fields work and you can put
somebody through a wall.
I don't think this is a real big mystery about people going through walls anymore.
And almost everybody that's abducted, numerous times, will describe the fact that they go
through a window or through a wall, or that the aliens come through walls.
This is pretty common, what Adam is describing here.
His big thing is, are there other witnesses to what he had said?
Apparently so.
There's a janitor, if he's still alive.
There would be the other school children, if they want to talk about it.
And if their memories had not been wiped of this incident, all of that, right?
Yeah, it's a major story.
I mean, he said 50 to 70 kids.
I mean, that's a major, major story.
Yes, it is.
With major witnesses.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Was his story, and remember he said he had been abducted since he was in the crib.
I didn't pursue that, but I will with him, but obviously all his life.
Almost all experiences will describe this.
Really?
We call them lifers.
I mean, if you've been abducted, it's almost never when you're 20 years old that you get abducted one time.
The general pattern is that if a person describes an abduction, you go back, if you do the regressions, you'll find out it's been going on their entire life.
Okay, Grant.
Another question for you.
Is it possible to know if there is a general thing that these creatures, these other beings, want from
us. In other words, is there any common thread in abductions that you can talk about that
would make us perhaps understand why they're occurring?
Well, you have the messages that they're giving.
You have the hybrid program, which is very common, where people describe the hybrid babies, that their sperm or the eggs are being taken.
That's very common, that that's going on.
And then you have these messages.
A lot of the experiencers will talk about seeing the screen on board the ship.
And they're showing these environmental devastation scenes, where the world is being destroyed.
And we're being given the message about The fact that we were destroying the planet, that we're environmentally doing damage to the planet, and that we have to stop this.
In the early years, the messages came across with the nuclear weapon messages, and the other message that is given is one of the more common ones, is this oneness message, that we have to understand that everything is connected, everything is alive, and everything is one, everything is connected.
That is a big message that they put across to a number of the experiencers.
I saw the world's climate expert, I believe it was Sunday on CNN, regarded as the world's chief climate expert, and he said that if we don't do anything in 50 years, it is now known that we will have a 10-foot rise of our oceans.
Now, they can show a picture of New York City, Grant, And show what it would look like with 10 more feet of water.
And, Grant, there's not much New York City left.
And that applies to all the coastal cities of the world.
So, maybe they better get busy pretty quickly doing a little messaging about what's going on with the planet's weather.
I'll tell you what.
Hold on, Grant.
We're going to break here.
Can you imagine that?
50 years, 10 feet.
Ten feet of ocean rise.
You know what that's going to look like?
It's not going to look like cities.
It's going to look like ocean.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Midnight.
I'm going to be playing a game called The Last of Us.
Listen to the strangest stories.
Wondering where it all went wrong.
For so long.
For so long.
But hold on, hold on, hold on.
Till you watch it die.
The clock strikes 12, and Midnight in the Desert is pounding packets your way on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
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Call Art.
Don't call yet, actually.
Just rest and listen.
We'll give you the cue to call.
My guest is Grant Cameron.
We're talking about abductions.
Oh, one last thing.
For a very minimal charge, We can have the screaming lady that you hear during these commercials come visit you at your house and wake you up whenever you request.
Grant, you're back on.
Yeah.
Alright, so... There's so much to talk about in this whole thing, but you think, and motive is one of the things I want to know about so much, and you believe it has something to do Well, I'm not sure about genetics.
I mean, there may be a genetic line that they're following, because usually if you are taken, your children will be taken, your parents usually are involved, or there may be a spiritual line as well.
I mean, there may be, if you're talking one life, If you start talking reincarnation, the whole game changes.
And the example I always show that's critical to this is if you can find one case, one abduction case that goes back before birth, the whole game changes.
And the example I always show is the story of the Moody Blues, the famous band, the Moody Blues.
I love them, yes.
They were clearly abducted in 1967.
Their story is quite well known.
Mike Pinder, who's the lead for the Moody Blues and the lead guitarist, go to Colin Andrews after one of his Crab Circle lectures and say, we want to talk to you.
We want to tell you a story.
And they go out for dinner and Colin says they're going back and forth between Pinder and the lead guitarist, back and forth, back and forth.
They're telling this story that day before they were born, they knew that they were going to be musicians.
And they told this story about being on this craft And that there was these elder people, and they were told they were going to put lyrics into songs that would raise consciousness, and this whole thing.
And this changes everything.
If people can remember, and a number of experiences, I can't remember what the exact percentage, but it's pretty high.
It's like 20 or 30 percent of people, experiencers, will talk about remembering before they were born.
And so... Alright, again, I'm going to slow you up.
This is pretty important stuff.
Are you saying that if you become a true believer, In reincarnation, the Buddhists, of course, believe in reincarnation.
That you are then likely to be a subject of visitation?
Well, you make a deal to come in here.
The whole idea is abduction.
You're saying, if you say, abduction, that these people are taken against their will, I would say, and Mary Rodwell, who's done over 2,000 regressions in Australia, would say, that if you ask the person during the regression, and you get them in deep hypnosis, and you say, at any point in the past, did you agree to be in this situation?
They will say, yes, I agree to this.
It's not an abduction.
This was something, if you believe in reincarnation art, you came into this life to do something.
Maybe you came in just to learn jealousy or greed or whatever, some sort of lesson.
But if you are an experiencer, the question is, did you come in here, did you volunteer to be an experiencer, to come in here to raise consciousness, to bring this alien message to the world?
We came in here, if you believe in reincarnation, we came in here to do something.
And so what I say is, when I see an experiencer, I see people who are very high-level spiritual beings who have chosen this mission to do what they're doing, that this is not some victim-type thing.
And if you take a look at the polls, Edgar Mitchell has a support group for Experiencers, and in the poll that was done, they had 1,200 Experiencers fill out this poll.
In there, only 9% of Experiencers say that they would turn it around if they had the chance To not have this experience happen, there's only less than 10% say, yeah, I would not want this to happen.
Most of them would say, yeah, I'd do this again.
Experiences, I'd say, are very, very important people.
You said you talked to Travis Walton, right?
What's that?
You talked to Travis, right?
Yes, I've talked to Travis, yes.
What do you think he'd say if he was asked, do you want this to happen again?
I think he's changed.
I think he would say he sees the benefits of this.
Really?
He thinks that something good was going on.
Really?
I mean, what he described, Grant, was kind of a horror, frankly.
I mean, he was trapped in this web-like junk.
Oh, God, I thought it was awful.
Well, that was the movie that put this stuff about, he talked about the fact he couldn't breathe.
And when they did the movie, they changed it to this stuff over his face.
They changed that whole thing.
I think, when you interview him, ask him that question.
I will.
Do you see any positive aspects to this?
I would say that he sees that there are some positive aspects to this.
To me, it's very important that what these people are doing.
When I did my first consciousness lecture in Phoenix, Arizona, I had a woman I don't know if you've ever gone into the life between life
stuff of Dr. Michael Newton, who did 7,000 regressions of people and took them into
their between lives.
I had a woman who went and did one of these regressions after she heard my lecture,
and in that regression she was asked, did you volunteer to be an experiencer?
She said, I didn't volunteer.
I earned it.
I worked hard to be in this position.
I see these people as very high level people.
They're bringing a message to the world.
They're doing something to me that's very valuable.
But we've come to the world.
If you believe in reincarnation, we've come to the world to do something.
We've got some sort of lesson to do, and so I see that part... I don't see really much random.
I don't think I randomly saw UFOs in the wrong place at the wrong time, or the right place at the right time.
That's why I say, if you see a UFO, you're part of the game.
You're part of what this whole thing's all about.
I wonder if I am.
I do.
I mean, in a way, when you think about it, it drove me, the experience drove me much harder to talk about all this kind of thing, so maybe you're right.
I don't know.
Yeah, you've had your thing, you've done a major mission in getting the word out and getting people talking about it.
And I think that's all they're trying to do, is they're trying to get people to talk about it.
I firmly believe that if there are as many civilizations as we now sort of guess that there might be in the universe, like billions or trillions of civilizations that are running around, they may have done this a thousand times on a thousand different planets.
They know exactly what they're going to do.
Because if you take a look at the pattern, you will see that I've been in this a long time, you've been in this a long time.
I know in 1975, What happened then doesn't happen now.
We had landing traces in the 1970s, where they'd land and they'd leave the pod marks in the burned grass.
Doesn't happen anymore.
In those days, there was people seeing aliens looking out windows of crafts.
Doesn't happen anymore.
The patterns have all changed.
We had Foo Fighters during World War II.
What happened to the Foo Fighters?
Where did they go?
After World War II, we had the Green Fireballs.
What happened to the Green Fireballs?
Actually, there have been recent Foo Fighter sightings.
Since you brought it up, I'll dig that story out.
Again, I want to slow you down.
Let me slow you down for just a second.
Reincarnation, Grant, is almost a religious conviction.
Would you say that is right?
Well, I don't know what you mean by that.
Well, it's almost an article of faith.
Well, I mean, you have the research done at the University of Virginia, 2,500 cases where you have kids who are like three, four years old.
I know.
I would say that's scientific evidence.
I wouldn't say that's any sort of religious faith.
I mean, there's a lot of evidence for reincarnation.
Well, but a lot of people believe in reincarnation as an article of faith, is what I'm saying.
Yeah, well, everybody believes in something.
And belief doesn't change reality, whatever people believe.
I mean, everybody has a set belief.
And that's critical to... Okay, so you're almost saying nonsense, it's science fact, not faith.
It has a lot of evidence for it.
That's a pretty big stretch to say that, but it could be.
May I ask, has your work in this field affected your own religion, or your own faith, or your own thinking?
Oh, absolutely.
As I said, it absolutely turned my whole life around.
I mean, it was completely 180 degrees, and then after my download experience, another 180 degrees.
It affected my whole life, and my life has never been the same since I saw my first UFO.
Well, actually, if you had 280 degree shifts, you're right back where you began, right back where you started.
I started before I got into UFOs.
I was interested in the Edgar Cayce and I was interested in near-death studies.
I had done a study at a hospital where I had gone to study dying cancer patients and stuff like that and asked all these questions about near-death work.
I've come right back to where I started back in the 1970s.
I had no interest in UFOs.
None whatsoever.
The only reason I went out to see this UFO thing was because the whole town was seeing it.
It was a viral story in the city where I lived.
And I went out believing I wouldn't see anything.
And when I saw it, I just literally could not believe what I had seen.
Oh, I totally get that.
I do, Grant.
What I want you to do is hold tight.
We're going to do an early break.
It gives us a little more time on the other side.
A religious... like an article of faith.
It is that, right?
How about the rest of you?
Those of you who have seen something really close up.
How's that affected your life?
This is midnight.
I'm not sure what I'm doing here.
I'm not sure what I'm doing here.
1 right
Riders on the storm.
Into this house we're born.
Into this world we're thrown.
Like a dog without a bone and Hector alone.
Riders on the storm.
The Storm.
♪♪♪ ♪ Ooh, and it's all right, and it's coming home ♪
♪ We gotta get right back to where we started from ♪ ♪ Love is good, love can be strong ♪
♪ We gotta get right back to where we started from ♪ ♪ Love is good, love can be strong ♪
♪ Do you remember that day? ♪ ♪ I sure do, baby ♪
♪ Do you remember that day? ♪ ♪ I sure do, girl ♪
♪ When you first came my way? ♪ ♪ I said no one can take your place ♪
♪ When you first came my way ♪ ♪ I said no one could take your place ♪
♪ And if you get hurt, if you get hurt ♪ ♪ By the little things I say ♪
♪ And if you get hurt, if you get hurt ♪ ♪ Darling, come on ♪
♪ I can put that smile back on your face ♪ ♪ When it's all right and it's coming home ♪
♪ We gotta get right back to where we started from ♪ ♪ Love is good, love can be strong ♪
♪ We gotta get right back to where we started from ♪ Wanna take a ride from the high desert
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This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
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Well, alright, Grant Cameron is my guest, and Grant, several have sent wormhole messages saying, Art, very interesting, but, well, Try to slow them down a little bit.
The information is coming too fast.
Can you do that?
Sure.
You've probably had more coffee than I have, but I drink a lot.
I mean, you're just rattling it out, and we've got time.
Don't worry.
It'll all get out.
So, I'm particularly interested in the reincarnation angle.
It would seem to me, if that's true, Buddhists, who really believe in reincarnation, would have a disproportionate number of abductions or contacts yes
matter no i don't i don't uh... you do you have to have a look at the stats
uh... the only stats we really have is the poll it was done the polis being done by the edgar mitchell
organization Okay.
Let me give you a question.
Question 185.
413 people replying.
The question is, do you believe that there is a connection between ETs and reincarnation?
These are the experiencers.
These are the people that are involved.
79% yes.
Wow.
Well, of course, they're probably on a site that kind of leans that way anyway, right?
Well, no, these are people that are being questioned.
Well, what's happened is they've gone to the experiencers to find out the common elements in the experiencers.
All right.
But what I'm saying is these are experiencers, so you would expect it to be skewed in that direction.
For example, if somebody were to ask me a question, I've had a close encounter, and I'm, heck yeah, I'm going to answer yes.
Yeah.
I think so.
That's fair.
All right.
If you would, give me this thing that I'm hearing about with you about Vice President Dick Cheney.
Incidentally, they just found out where he was hiding.
There's something to do with Cheney and UFOs.
What's up?
Well, I had the opportunity to talk to Dick Cheney.
I had been interested in who had the answer to what I had seen in 1975.
I had a sighting.
I wrote a manuscript.
The local publisher, where I am, said, Mr. Cameron, you may believe in this kind of stuff.
Count me among the unbelievers.
I was no longer interested in sightings.
Couldn't care less.
All I was interested in is who knew what I had seen.
So I went up the chain of command.
I went to the Canadian government.
Then I went to the former president of Penn State University, Dr. Eric Walker, who indicated he knew what was going on.
Then I went up to the president.
I figured, well, the president must know what's going on.
And it was at that point when I got the opportunity to talk On a radio talk show, ask a question of former Vice President Dick Cheney.
What had happened was Bush was running for President with Cheney.
He had come up against a guy named Charles Huffer who had a tape recorder going and said, Mr. Bush, if you become President, are you going to release the UFO information?
Bush said, yes, I will.
Cheney was standing right beside him and he said, This is Cheney.
He's a very smart guy.
He was Secretary of Defense.
It'll be the first thing he does when he gets to the White House.
So when he got to the White House in April of 2001, he was on a radio talk show, the Diana Rehm Show in Washington, D.C.
I got on the air and I asked him the question, which I say you have to ask any four-star general, vice president, or president.
You don't want to ask him, have you seen a UFO?
Who cares?
You don't want to know what you think about UFOs?
Who cares?
The only question you want to ask him is the briefing question.
At any point, did anybody walk in and brief you?
The briefing is the truth.
Did anybody walk into your office, swear you to secrecy, and tell you what's going on?
So I said to him, Mr. Cheney, in all your jobs in government, and Cheney had been the Chief of Staff for President Gerald Ford, he had been Secretary of Defense under Bush Sr., and when I talked to him, he was the Vice President, he was in the White House when he answered the question.
I said, in any of your jobs in government, have you ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs?
If so, when was it, and what were you told?
And Cheney hesitated, and he said, if I had been briefed on that subject, it would probably be classified, and I wouldn't be talking about it.
And that's what it's all about.
It's classified.
They aren't going to talk about it.
It's like nuclear weapon secrets, they're not going to talk about it.
Yeah, but they made a campaign promise.
Bush made the campaign promise, But it was Cheney that I asked the question, and Cheney said exactly what the situation is.
It's classified.
He's not going to talk about it.
I don't suppose you recorded that, did you?
It's on the Diana Rehm website.
We have it, yes.
God, I would love to hear that.
I would love to hear it.
In fact, you interviewed me when it happened.
We could have... Well, too bad.
I guess you didn't get an opportunity to do a follow-up, did you?
Well, no, because they cut me off.
I didn't even hear the answer to the question.
They cut me off immediately, and then what happened was Diana Rehm, who's running the show, said, Mr. Cheney, have you had any meetings on UFOs since you got in the White House?
And at that point, he sort of caught his ground, and he said, no, we've had no UFO meetings since I got to the White House.
And I don't think he ever went on a radio talk show after that, I mean, because the next five questions after my question about the UFOs were all on Halliburton, how he was ripping people off with Halliburton, and he was furious by the end of that show.
I bet he was, yeah.
So yeah, I mean, that's what it comes down to, is it's classified.
The medal is classified, how they get here is classified, and the consciousness thing, which is the key element that in 1947 As I said, the Canadian government said, were told by high-level American officials in 1950, before anybody talked to an alien, that mental phenomena was involved.
How did the American officials know that mental phenomena was involved?
Because in 1947, they recovered a craft in Roswell, New Mexico, and one of the aliens was alive.
And when they went to recover the craft, the alien was talking in their heads.
And that's the most highly classified part to me, is if you can figure out how to talk in someone's head, you can go to Putin, you can go to anybody, and make them think they're talking to God.
This is tremendous technology, this whole consciousness thing, the fact that aliens are telepathic, and that they can put messages and control people's minds.
This is highly important stuff, that's why it's so highly classified.
Well, if they can actually do that, why don't they do it to achieve their goals?
Which, if you listen to abduction stories, would seem to be, A, to stop us from blowing ourselves to smithereens, and B, to do something about the state of the planet right now.
Okay, the Canadian government, the guy that ran the Canadian government program, his name was Wilbert Smith.
He was a contactee.
Most people don't know that.
He was a contactee.
He was in contact with an alien by the name of Alpha.
And he's the guy that ran the Canadian government flying saucer program.
What he said the aliens had told him, and I've heard this from other sources as well, is that the only time they will ever step in There's this non-intervention thing.
The only time they will ever step in is if there is a nuclear exchange.
And this is what Wilbur Smith had been told by his alien contact.
And what he was told was, if there's a nuclear exchange, they would step in.
Otherwise, they are going to allow the human race to stew in their own juices.
You cannot do your children's homework.
You have to allow people to learn their own lessons.
And if we happen to wipe ourselves out, so be it.
If reincarnation is a fact, we go someplace else and learn our lessons all over.
They are here not to save us.
This is not American military foreign policy where we're going to go in to a foreign third world country, bring them freedom, democracy, Jesus and McDonald's.
They're here, I think, only to save the planet.
We are, as David Bohm, the famous physicist said, we are like a swarm of locusts that has descended upon the earth.
And they are basically here to try to stop us from, or to educate us to stop what we're doing to the planet.
I don't think they're really here to save us.
They're here to save the planet.
Well, Grant, dead is dead.
And, you know, if we destroy the planet, make it unlivable for human beings, we might as well go ahead and have the nuclear exchange.
So, my question to you is, If it came to that, if somebody, Putin maybe, he's pretty nutty, if he pressed the button, it's your view, they would step in, and what?
Not allow these things to launch, take them out during the launch phase, or what?
Shut them down just like they did Malmstrom.
Shut the whole thing down or as they did in Russia, actually start the clock and let them run down and scare the living daylights out of everybody.
This is the whole deal.
Wilbur Smith said that he had been told That they could stop a nuclear exchange, and if we didn't believe it, they could take the moon in front of the entire human race, split it in half, and put it back together again to prove that they could stop a nuclear exchange.
But that is the only time they will step in, is if there's a nuclear exchange.
Otherwise, it's hands-off.
We have to learn our own lessons.
And that's where this whole thing with Experiencers, If you have multiple lives, that these people are volunteering to come in so that you don't have this non-intervention thing.
These people are coming in to help.
They're part of this process to raise the consciousness from the ground up.
You can't.
Indirectly.
To me, that's American foreign policy.
That we're going to go in and tell people what to do and stuff.
Because it doesn't work.
We know it doesn't work in Iraq.
We know it doesn't work in Pakistan and all these places.
That eventually you end up where you're in bunkers and the only time you come out is when you're an armored personnel carrier.
Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
They cannot come in here and directly influence us because we would not allow it.
You're not going to allow someone else to come in and take over your world or your country.
So they're doing it, coming in through the back door.
They may have tried to come to the government, which I think they did on a number of occasions.
But after that, they're coming in through people who have volunteered to help them on this mission.
Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
If a saucer came down, it could place White House lawn.
I maintain that when the ramp came down and the little guy got about halfway down the ramp, he'd be filled with so much lead, Grant, that they'd have a hard time carrying him away.
In other words, we are a very, very warrior-like nation.
There's no getting around it.
Yeah, plus nobody wants somebody else to come into their country.
I mean, that's why we have so much trouble in the Middle East is we're in there.
And I mean, if you, you know, you were someone then your neighbor, your parents got killed or your sister.
You'd be angry, and you'd want these people out of your country.
The idea is that you don't want people in here.
And the other problem that we have, that I say that the government really doesn't want any part of this, is the fact that... I just wrote a book called Alien Bedtime Stories, and one of the stories I talk about...
One of the first articles I wrote is, are the aliens commies?
And if you take a look, in the early 1950s, when you had a Dabstein-Williamson, the FBI was following these guys around, because the message that the aliens are bringing is not a capitalist message.
It is a message of oneness.
It is a message that the one is more important than the individual, and that we have to stop this growth, this capitalist growth.
This would not be very well received in America, the message that the aliens are putting out.
Well, if that really is their message, they do sound like commies.
Exactly.
They're talking about the world is more important than some rich guy who wants to build a nuclear power plant in the middle of San Francisco.
Okay, well, if all that's true, then double the amount of lead I said the little guy would get.
Well, yeah, exactly.
People think that, you know, we make it public and everybody's going to be happy and we're going to, you know, be able to drive big cars again.
It's not what's going to happen.
There's a lot of things that aren't going to go well if this does get released.
I mean, Trump hates the Mexicans.
I mean, can you imagine how he's going to hate the aliens?
No, that's not fair.
Wait, wait, wait.
Not fair.
I'm not on Trump's side, but he's never said he hates Mexicans.
He hates our immigration policy.
Yeah, and it's this us versus them, that we are, that it's the outsiders that are causing sort of the trouble yes yes yes yes it used to be that the
you know the vietnamese and that it was uh... you know that
the uh... chinese and there is a russians and it's this idea
it's is the the message that the aliens are bringing so one this message
and see at the message that we are all one there were all leaves on the same
tree not the idea that
that the message that is being promoted in communism is this survival of the fittest
Rape, pillage and steal, whatever you can.
Whoever's got the most toys wins.
It's this growth thing.
And David Bohm, this physicist, great physicist, who was not a UFO guy, basically said he didn't think we were going to make it.
Because basically what you have is a model where you need growth all the time.
And the growth keeps going, keeps going.
And now you've got China starting to have this high growth, and India.
And eventually, David Bohm says we're going to run out of resources, whether we destroy the planet.
Well, yeah, I'm not an optimist.
I don't like the way things are going.
Hold tight, Grant.
We're at a break point.
You can relax for a bit.
Take five, as they say.
I'm Art Bell and this is Midnight in the Desert.
Feeling the weight on the crest of a wave, it's like magic.
Oh, rolling and riding and slipping and sliding, it's magic.
And you, and you see it's like magic.
you For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcroft.
Canadians have created a giant wall that sucks carbon dioxide straight out of the air.
Created by the Canadian company Carbon Engineering, this wall could be built to draw carbon dioxide straight out of the air and convert it into fuel.
We're capturing CO2 with it right now.
And by the time we get to the outlet here, where these fans pull the air through the contactor, over 80% of the CO2 has been removed.
We're trapping over 100 kilos of CO2 here every day and that CO2 gets absorbed into our solution and forms a type of carbonate salt.
Air flows through a row of massive fans that are connected to a carbon dioxide rich solution.
This then absorbs carbon compounds out of the air.
This solution is purified with the carbon dioxide within it extracted and then purified again for reuse.
The research and engineering firm hope to build such walls where regrowth of trees simply isn't possible.
They did it in the 60s and they're still doing it.
A strange gray UFO has caused something of a stir in the conspiracy community after NASA caught the object on its ISS live feed camera and then promptly cut the live feed as soon as it appeared.
The small gray object is seen coming up over the horizon and then disappearing just moments later as NASA cuts the feed and switches to another of the cameras and will no doubt fuel conspiracy theorists' belief That NASA is deliberately hiding footage of potential UFOs.
One of the simplest theories to this conundrum is that it's an artifact on the lens, or indeed, the moon.
The YouTuber responsible for the video, StreetCap1, doesn't hold with that either, posting a second video, and he says proves that it couldn't be the moon.
The biggest mystery, however, is why NASA didn't just use duct tape to cover it up.
That's what they did before, after all.
Right?
I'm Leo Ashcraft, and this is Dark Matter News.
A former state trooper from Washington said on Wednesday that he is currently in contact with several Bigfoot creatures and that he feeds them food regularly.
The man who provided a name but chose to remain anonymous said that the encounters have been happening since 2009 in a remote area in the North Cascades.
He said sometimes it's five to ten minutes, other times they stay for hours.
He says he leaves them apples, carrots, beef jerky, cookies, and candy bars.
The man says he was looking for an old mine in the mountains the first time he came across the alleged beings in 2009.
After leaving the food out there for him, he says they seem to have started following him and getting closer.
He says he's been as close as 20 feet to some of them.
He reports that he was so close to them that he was able to catch some of their language on two different occasions.
He said it sounded like Native American and an Asian mix.
The creatures reportedly stand between 6 and 7 feet tall and probably weigh in at about 500 pounds, females being a little lighter.
He describes them as having a human face, some with dark hair, others red or brown, probably about 3 to 4 inches long, adding that the females had small breasts.
He claims he's not the only one to have seen the creatures in the area.
Numerous people have also purportedly seen them while accompanying the man.
The former state trooper says the creatures have never presented a threat to him and that he leaves them alone and he's not interested in hunting them or gathering physical evidence.
Florida resident John Bird last year claimed to feed Bigfoot potatoes and plantains on a regular basis.
In the spring of 1982, a soldier training at Fort Leonard Wood Army Base in Missouri claimed to have spotted a seven-foot tall creature with brown hair that resembles the former state trooper's alleged sighting.
Portions on the United States side of the range are part of the North Cascades National Park.
Earlier this week, there were reports revealing the intentions of the U.S.
Army to annex part of the region as a helicopter training area, drawing criticism from the Forest Service employees for environmental ethics.
I'm Leo Ashcraft.
This has been Dark Matter News.
It's been a too long time With no peace of mind
And I'm ready for the times To get better
I've got to tell you I've been racking my brain Hoping to find a way out
I've had enough of this continual rain Changes are coming, no doubt
It's been a too long time With no peace of mind
And I'm ready for the times To get better
In that darkest time, between dusk and dawn, from the high desert, it's Art Bell's Midnight in the Desert.
Now, here's Art.
Hi, I'm Asia Bell, and it's very late, so I'm sleepy now.
But yo, Rick, so call my daddy, because he's awake, too.
The number is 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952, call Art.
That's right.
to five five two seven eight that's one nine five two call on that's right I'm
sorry I couldn't resist Grant Cameron is my guest and I've got to wonder if they
came down landed and somehow in a worldwide way dispensed their message
the alien message of we're all one You know, the sort of communistic message.
How would Fox cover that?
You've got to wonder.
Well, okay, Grant, welcome back.
This really is fascinating stuff, absolutely fascinating.
There are also experiencers, I understand, who report the very same sort of thing, having been near death.
Yeah, it's a staggering figure.
35% of all people who claim to be experiencers who've had the abduction experience, or encounter with aliens, are reporting at the same time that they've had a near-death
experience and much the same message dispensed
uh... why i'm really not sure what the message they got near the experience but
it is the same sort of oneness type thing where the weird thing that i find about it is
there's actually a panel that's been set up to to figure out what how can you possibly have these two
things together And that's where this idea comes from, about the fact that it may be chosen.
That you, when you came into this life, you chose to be an experiencer and you also chose to have a near-death experience.
Because you know that there are people who can predict the future.
So people can predict the future.
It would indicate that the future is somewhat set, that it's not like random events, which is what we're sort of taught, that everything is random and it's meaningless.
But if I can predict that you're going to have a car accident tomorrow, and you have a near-death experience, well then it wasn't a random event.
So it may be that near-death experiences and abduction experiences are not random events, that a person comes into this life and chooses to have both, and that's why you have this very high percentage, which puzzles a lot of people in the UFO community, how you can have so many people that have these two apparently random events happening
that are so bizarre and I just say to me it makes sense that they're not random. How many
abductees do you think there are in totality? Okay,
The Roper Poll that was financed by Bob Bigelow in 1991 came up with, conservatively in the United States of America, 2%, which on 320 million people would be 6.4 million Experiencers and that's conservative. I think most people
in the field consider that to be a conservative estimate of Experiencers and the weird thing about that is that 43% of
those?
Experiencers are reporting downloads. Mm-hmm. It's 2.7 million people that
Experiencers who are reporting getting mathematical Technical or scientific material in their heads that they
did not learn in school or through any other means, okay?
Here's a good question for you. Bob Bigelow is a friend of mine. Yeah, I know him very well. I've been inside
some of this What are going to be spacecraft?
now He's a real serious guy, Grant.
Real serious guy.
And he was investigating this kind of thing you're talking about right now.
He conducted a number of very important polls, one of which you just mentioned.
And then suddenly, Bob Bigelow stopped doing that kind of research and began using his considerable wealth To get into space.
He's going to build space hotels.
He's doing all kinds of really serious stuff.
What do you think caused him, Grant, if you were to guess, probably just have to guess unless you've talked to him, what made him stop investigating all of that and move towards space?
Uh, I really don't know.
I don't know that he's really done that.
I mean, I know he put a lot of money into consciousness.
He had the Chair for Consciousness Studies at UNLV.
He put millions of dollars into that.
Oh yes, yes.
He did a long period of that.
And I'm sure he still has the UFO interest because he had his, I think it was His parents had this UFO encounter, and you know that once you get the bug, you... Yeah, but again, Grant, I'm telling you, he has changed.
He has dropped... It's like he came to some conclusion, Grant, and then he switched.
Now, I'd love to have Bob, and I would love to get Bob to ask him that question, but it's a big turn, I'm telling you.
He's in aerospace now.
Interesting.
Well, yeah, I really don't know.
I mean, I know he was in... when he still had NIDS, I know he was into the aerospace thing.
I talked to his chief physicist when I was there, and so I really don't know why the change.
I just know he was extremely interested in consciousness, and he understands how this all fits together, that it's not just a physical phenomenon, that this is much more complex.
It's almost like Jacques Vallée said, I would be very surprised if this turned out to be just extraterrestrials.
Well, I'm thinking that he did so much investigation that he came to some conclusions.
Could be.
And then as a result of that, changed his focus.
And I'll ask him.
Yeah, sure.
I'll ask him.
So, you're saying there are many, many, many abductees.
And most of them Not all, but most of them are abducted again and again and again all their life.
Is that true?
That would appear to be the pattern, yes.
Starts when they're infants?
Very young, before they've set their mind as to how the world works.
That's why I think they take them very young.
Because once you're 20 years old, your worldview is set, and the aliens would need giant rubber boots and a big giant shovel to try to get an idea down in through all the garbage.
to impress something. So they take the kids very very young.
The same as we have this phenomena that takes place with musicians being extremely interested in UFOs. A lot of them
are experiencers
and I say my guess is that the reason that the aliens are so interested in
musicians is they influence children between the ages say 10 and
25 years old when they're looking for new ideas.
Grant?
The idea is to get people before they've set their worldview, if you want to get an idea across to change consciousness for the next generation.
Grant, do you know David Jacobs?
Yeah, I know of him.
I've never talked to him, no.
Okay.
While you are telling us that they're giving us a message of oneness, conciliation, Repair of the planet, all these very important things.
There are people like Jacobs who believe that these creatures may be fooling us.
That they're presenting the front that you have described, but in fact they're not friendly at all and they represent a very great danger potentially to us.
Yeah.
And you say what to that?
I say that's General Colin Powell standing up at the U.N.
and trying to convince us that the Iraqis had weapons of mass destruction.
It's the us versus them.
It's this idea that the Chinese were our enemies, the blacks were the problem, the Jews were the problem, and the Russians were the problem, and now it's the aliens.
It's another enemy.
That's pretty harsh.
You're essentially saying It's a great lie.
It's the idea that there's separation.
You either believe in oneness, or you believe in the fact that everybody's separate, that everyone's individual.
And when you get the individual idea, then if you take the aliens, what evidence is there that the aliens Are going to take over the planet. They're going to do
anything like people will say okay They're here to take the planet, and I say if you actually
take a look. There's very physical very little physical about them
They don't wear clothes and people say they're here to get our gold. They don't wear jewelry
They don't really have any furniture. They don't seem to have any interest in anything physical at all
They seem to be here doing this hybrid thing and people can say okay eventually they're going to take over the world
They're going to eat us or they're going to do whatever And I say if you take a look at the download stuff, if you take a look at 43% of people are being downloaded, or you have 11% of people that report that they're being allowed to fly the flying saucer,
If they're going to take us over and eat us or whatever they're going to do, why don't they do it?
And why are they teaching people to fly the ship?
Why are they downloading mathematical and technical material into people's heads if they're just going to take us over?
There seems to be something else going on behind the scenes.
Well, don't forget to serve man.
To serve man?
Yes.
You don't remember to serve man?
No, I don't know what you're talking about.
Okay, alright, I'll explain.
There was a, I believe it was a Twilight Zone episode, in which the aliens came down and they made a great speech and a great deal out of how they were going to serve man.
And then at the very end, Grant, it turned out that to serve man was actually a cookbook.
Yeah.
We're going to be served up on a McDonald's on the far side of the moon, a human McNuggets, yeah.
If it happens, I'll believe it.
I don't see any indication that there is this evil empire.
Okay, I'm not saying there is, Grant.
I'm just saying that you seem to believe wholeheartedly that they are well-intentioned, trying to help us, trying to prevent nuclear warfare, trying to help us with the planet, whatever, and I hope Grant, I hope it's true.
But I'm just saying, don't you have a little bit of you that says, but... Well, who was it?
Ronald Reagan said something about trust, but verify.
Well, that's the idea.
This separation thing, that we have enemies, that we are the good guys, we're always the good guys, and there's all these bad guys, and everybody's out to get us, and it may be true, but what I'm saying is that I think people have to start explaining why are people getting downloads?
What is going on?
Why are they downloading people with information?
Why are they allowing people to fly ships?
When I gave my first Consciousness Lecture, Within one year, I had 24 people come to me that told me this thing that they were flying the ship, and most of them were women.
And I say, if you believe in the evil alien thing, well then you have to look at the fact that if you're a woman in Saudi Arabia, you cannot drive a car.
It's illegal for you to drive a car.
But if you're a Saudi Arabian woman and you get abducted by the aliens, they'll not only let you drive the car, they'll let you fly as a flying saucer.
No insurance, no license, nothing.
So why are they allowing people, why is there something going on behind the scenes that's being ignored?
Now, maybe Jacobs is right.
Maybe eventually they're going to pop up and, you know, we're going to get served for lunch or they're going to come to the planet or do whatever.
Jacobs didn't really say that, you know.
He just thinks that there's a possibility they could be not our friends.
He calls them the threat.
He wrote the book, The Threat.
Thank you.
The same as Bud Hopkins.
Bud Hopkins talked about the intruders.
That they're intruders.
They're really not evil, but they're just intruding in our lives and they should just go away and leave us alone.
Okay, listen, I've got a wormhole message here from Duggan, Michigan who wants to ask you this.
All right, all right, he says, Grant.
One of the big things that aliens always seem to show abductees is how we are destroying our planet.
That would indicate to me the aliens are very likely us from the future.
Possible.
I mean, if you take a look at quantum physics, there is no time and space.
I mean, it's all a deck of cards on top of each other.
I mean, so time and space, you know, we're getting into hypotheticals that are hard to really answer.
I mean, it could be.
That was the message from Reynolds from Forrest, that Jim Penniston, got through his touching the craft, the fact that this was
future coming back. I mean it's highly possible but I, my guess would be
that there really is no time and space that if you talk to Giulio Asante who, from Colombia
who's done some work on this.
She basically says that you can basically talk with your future lives and past lives and have a meeting and so this idea of time and space, a lot of this is illusion.
Physical world is illusion.
Time and space are illusion.
We believe a lot of stuff that really the aliens are showing us this really isn't true.
When you start looking at what they're doing we start realizing that That we've sort of got some beliefs that maybe need changing.
And that's why I'm just saying, you've got to start looking at what the experiencers are saying.
They're telling us some important stuff about what's going on, that you can go through walls, that telepathy is true, that people are getting downloads, they're getting information, they're getting inventions and stuff like that.
I think we've got to start looking at this kind of stuff, and maybe it's true that there is some sort of threat, but I think it's more profitable to look at what the experiences are actually saying.
Look, I was just asking if you had a sliver of you that had doubts.
If there was a little bit of you that... I did before.
The more I look at it, the less I believe in the evil alien.
I was right with you maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
If you ask the experiencers and you say, how many believe they're evil?
Only 10% of experiencers believe that they're evil.
All right.
Well, there are many who describe many.
In other words, that there are many different alien species here.
Yes.
Are they all here to help?
Well, I don't know.
There's got to be thousands of different aliens here.
All I know is the main ones, like the greys and the main, where you get the abduction phenomena.
You may have a lot of aliens that are here who aren't interacting.
The only ones who we can really judge are the ones that are interacting with us, which would be the greys and the reptilians and the humanoid types.
There are many types, though, and it's hard to know if they're all our friends.
It's even hard to know whether they're warring with each other or not.
Okay, again, to me this doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
If you're telepathic, And you can predict the future, and I'm telepathic, and I can predict the future.
How can you possibly have a war between you and me?
If I can tell what you're going to do, and you can tell what I'm going to do, how can you have a war?
I know who's going to win the war.
I know I'm going to die.
Why would I start the war?
The idea of telepathic beings, that's the whole idea about telepathy, is that if a politician stands up, you know when he's lying.
It's very hard to start war if you're telepathic.
This doesn't make any sense to me, that telepathic beings...
Telepathy is a very important thing.
If you're telepathic, I believe you have to understand that everything's connected.
And that's the whole thing.
That's the Ronald Reagan thing.
How the world would unite if we were facing a threat from an alien nation.
This whole idea that everything is connected.
Telepathy means we're connected.
that we all are a part of a hologram. It's a big huge hologram and that if I want to read your mind, everything
in me is in you. I just go into me and get your information from the hologram. And so everything is
that if you're telepathic, in fact Ben Rich, part of my download was a statement made by Ben Rich when
Jan Hardson, the international director
of MUFON asks him.
He said, Ben, he had a very close encounter at nine years old.
He became fascinated with UFOs, wanted to be an electrical engineer, wanted to know about propulsion.
So he asked Ben Rich, who ran Lockheed Skunk Works, SR-71, U2, the drones, all that kind of stuff.
He said to Ben, Ben, I need to know.
How did they get here?
How does it work?
And Ben turned around and he said, let me ask you a question.
What do you know about ESP?
And Jan Hartson said, I didn't expect a question.
So he said, I replied, it means everything in time and space is connected.
And Ben Rich said, that's how it works.
Walked out of the building, got in his car and drove away.
And you get this over and over again, this whole thing about the connectedness that they may actually Like, entangled space, they may actually be able to just move through time and space like an entangled particle.
They're in one part of the universe and then they can move to the other part instantaneously.
If everything's connected, if they're just moving through a hologram.
That's why I say that you've got to start looking at what the experiences are saying and look at this from a different perspective.
from quantum physics and this kind of stuff and you start to understand that they just
understand better how the universe works that we're making a lot of false assumptions about
how things work and the aliens are not magic they just understand a few things that we
don't know and one of the key ones is this whole idea the difference between us and an
alien the main difference is we are not telepathic and they are.
All right I guess very quickly because we're about out of time here for the hour and I
want to get to calls next hour.
Are you ready for calls, by the way?
Sure.
Okay.
Do you believe that when Ronald Reagan said what he said, he was saying that to, in effect, prepare us?
I would just be guessing.
I can tell you that Ronald Reagan had two UFO sightings.
Right.
He had the one where he chased it in the plane.
He had the other one where he was coming from Sacramento down to a cocktail party in Los Angeles.
Steve Allen, the comedian, was there.
So was Lucille Ball.
And Lucille Ball told Shirley MacLaine that he had interacted with an alien.
Gotcha.
All right.
Hold tight.
Relax.
Take a deep breath.
We'll take calls when we get back.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
You know me, I'm in you.
You're in me, I'm in you.
To reach Midnight in the Desert via Skype worldwide, if on a computer, please be sure to use a headphone mic and call
MITD.
That's MITD-51.
Alright, let me sort of run through the numbers for all of you, so that if you have a question for Grant Cameron, And he certainly knows a lot about abduction, doesn't he?
You can ask it.
The public number for all of you is area code 952-225-5278.
952-225-5278, or call Art if you will.
And of course, for Skype, if you're in North America, the U.S.
and Canada, it's MITD-51.
225-5278 or call Art if you will.
And of course for Skype, if you're in North America, the US and Canada, it's MITD51.
MITD51.
Internationally, outside of North America, it is MITD55.
MITD55.
Ring that number, and you're ringing me.
If I don't answer right away, keep ringing.
And that applies to the regular phone number as well.
So, Grant, if I can bring you back and say, do you think you can compact your answers a little bit so we can get through some calls?
Sure.
Okay, good.
Let's give it a try.
Let's go, I don't know, let's go to Michigan.
Hi there.
Hey there, how are you doing?
Doing fine, sir.
Where are you?
Canton, Michigan.
Okay.
I just have a question for you, actually.
For me?
Oh, you've got to have something for my guest.
I'm a big fan of your show, and I used to listen to it on satellite, and I was wondering if there was ever a chance that you're going to go back to satellite radio.
Well, they'd probably hate me.
I'm being honest with you.
Yeah, they'd probably hate my guts.
You know, you never know.
It ought to be up there, right?
They ought to be carrying it, but, you know, they hate me.
Hey, it took me a while to find you on TuneRadio.
Okay, now you've got that answer, so anything for Grant Cameron.
I mean, aliens taking people, that's pretty serious.
Yeah, it's very intriguing.
Intriguing?
It's intriguing to me.
Okay.
Alright, intriguing it is.
I thank you for the call, and I guess you have nothing.
So, let's go to Skype.
Let's go over to Skype and say, hi there, you're on the air.
Damon, I believe it is.
Hello, Damon.
Aw, Damon went away.
Too bad.
Try again, Damon.
You might get through.
Who knows?
Let's go off to Lawton, Oklahoma.
You're on Midnight.
Hi.
Yeah, sorry about earlier.
I kind of froze up.
I beg your pardon?
I kind of froze up.
Oh, I see.
All right.
You have a question?
Has your guest ever been abducted by chupacabras?
I don't think chupacabras abduct.
That I'm aware of.
Never heard a story of one abducting anyone.
Anyway, but actually, let me translate that a little bit.
Have you ever been abducted, Grant?
I've done the tests for the implants, that sort of stuff.
It comes up negative.
I had one experience in April of 1976 where I had an experience where the Oz Effect type thing took place, where absolute riveting fear Lasted for about five minutes.
There was a slight movement in the craft right above the car as if they were cutting it, almost like cutting a film.
At that point something may have happened, but I have no messages, no abduction type phenomena that people report.
Okay, but if you got a test, you said you had a test, you must have thought that something occurred to you and that's why you got the test?
I wanted to check whether I was in that category, yes.
Okay, let's try, I think it's Andy on Skype.
Andy, hello?
Yes, yes, Art.
Proceed.
Hello.
You're on the air.
Yes, I wanted to ask your guest a question.
I've always wanted to find some kind of correlation between the alien phenomena and Very good question, I think.
religions and superstitions as far as demons and ghosts and things like that go.
How do you relate those two concepts?
How does the alien thing reconcile with the notion of, other notions of supernatural entities?
Very good question, I think.
Go ahead.
I give a lecture, a consciousness lecture, which says that everything is together, everything
You have a conscious mind and you have consciousness itself.
The aliens are just outside the conscious mind.
They live in the dream world, they live in the same world as spirits, all this sort of stuff.
And I think it's all connected.
Once you cut off the conscious mind, whether it's through meditation or different methods that we can do, you can go into this other type of world where all these higher frequency beings and spirits and stuff exist.
I believe it's all connected.
It's all the same thing.
It's just outside the conscious left ego mind that we basically operate in the human world.
Are you, in essence, saying that, for example, Christianity, the religion itself, is somehow connected with and one with There's phenomena of depictions.
Usually the people who start the religions or who write this stuff get some sort of inspiration.
So I have my download experience and a lot of people, I've actually written a manuscript where I talk about different types of inspirations that people get.
Songs that are given all the Nobel Prizes and came in dreams and stuff like that.
That there is this kind of inspiration thing.
So people of various religions are going to get Inspirations.
Say, you may get a guy who, in the early years, like Terence McKenna talks about psychedelic or magic mushrooms, where the guy takes magic mushrooms and suddenly gets an enlightenment experience where he leaves his conscious mind and suddenly sees all this stuff and they say, well, you're the smart guy, we'll make you the shaman.
And so I think that's where a lot of religious ideas come from, is where people are able to break the the filter, the conscious mind filter, and move into this
sort of other world and pick up material from the spirit world or from wherever
and and this is where the religion, religious ideas come from.
Andy, I think the answer was yes.
Alright, thank you very much. Take care. Let's go to Colorado Springs on the phone. You're on the air. Hi.
Hi Art, this is Kevin in Colorado Springs.
And I'd like to mention first of all that you've heard of the phenomenon where
someone has a use of a craft and has that experience and then later they find out
that they've been abducted.
I wonder, in some ways, if that hasn't happened to me, but... Why do you wonder that?
Because I have had an experience But there is nothing past that experience at a young age that makes me think it's happened again.
Sure.
You've raised a really good question.
A lot of people like this person, Grant, think they've been, or may have been, abducted.
What is a proper course for somebody like this to follow?
If they want to know, can they be hypnotic regression?
What do you think?
Well, it depends how much they want to know about it.
Because once you open the door through a regression, you can't close the door again.
So you have to be prepared to go down that road.
If it's not bothering you, I would say just leave it.
If it bothers you enough, I would say record what you're doing.
Definitely record the story that's happening to you and talk about it.
We have Experiencer Groups all over the country now where people will go and talk and you'll come across people in those Experiencer Groups who are telling your story.
You gain support from there.
Regression is always a route you can go to go to a particular event that you remember.
Can you really trust regression?
I mean, there's a lot of controversy around that.
Well, I mean, physical, I mean, just our ordinary, I say we have a problem with our ordinary reality, believing a lot of stuff that really isn't true.
Sure, I mean, there's going to be a problem with regression, this idea of people being led, but a lot of regression, most people who remember stuff from the abduction stuff, have never been regressed.
The same as most people who are abducted, Didn't happen when they're sleeping.
It happens during the day.
So we have all these sort of impressions that people are getting these bad images from regression.
And very few people are regressed.
Almost nobody's regressed.
Most of the stuff that you hear is people remembering it without regression.
Okay.
Alright.
Douglas on Skype.
You're on the air.
I was wondering about past life, like we were talking about that just now.
You practically answered my question.
But I was wondering about past life regression and how that might relate in the abduction
and also what they may think about the world the way it is now.
Yeah, it's kind of a mess.
All right, so you know, you've got a big hum on your Skype thing, or whatever you're connected to, you've got a big hum on it.
Anyway, yes, well, Grant, again, past life and abduction seems to be connected.
I believe it's connected.
I may be wrong, but I believe there's a connection.
If reincarnation is a fact, then you've got to factor that in, and people aren't factoring that in.
It's almost like Shakespeare said, all the world's a stage, and all the men and women are but actors.
They have their entrances and exits, and each man plays many roles.
So we came to the earth to do something, and if you're an experiencer, I believe that's the role you've been chosen to do.
If you're a radio broadcaster, that's the role you've probably been chosen to do, and you have something to do it, and do it the best you can.
All right.
North Hollywood, California.
You're on the air with Grant.
Oh, hi Art.
Thank you so much.
I just wanted to say first off that in the entire UFO community, this whole After Dark community, you are the only one that I really trust that you're coming on here to do a good job and find truth.
That's honest.
Thank you.
I've been listening to all of them.
Well, a lot of them may be trustworthy, but I'm appreciative.
Thank you.
Well, you know, anybody who's working on from my, you know, the way I feel on network radio or network TV, Is working for the agenda that we're all pretty much trying to uncover.
And so that leads to my question for your guest is this.
Sure.
There was a late, I've watched some videos on YouTube of a lady in the nineties who came out saying that a lot of what she was finding about the gray alien UFO.
Oh, you know, the abduction phenomenon is a false memory implant.
And that is late.
Soon after that, she came up with a very mysterious form of cancer and died very quickly.
And I've seen over the years that all the conspiracy theorists, The government goes right after those people that they really don't want that information to get out.
They don't want you looking in that direction, and they kill them.
Happened with the 9-11 towers, happened with Roswell, happened with the Kennedy assassination, and who knows what countless things.
So my question is, could this, if it is, and I don't know because I haven't made a decision, if this is a false memory scenario where they're putting in implants in people just like they've been doing in animals for years and it appears to be the same kind of implant, Could it be hiding the fact that we're either, like James Gates, the science advisor for Obama says, living in a computer code simulated reality and that the barrier might be the Arctic Circle or the Antarctic that we can't get beyond because there are stories of like Admiral Byrd and people can't get past that barrier.
And that the whole sky above us with the sun and the moon and the stars is really a hologram.
I think these ships can move the way they do because, like a laser pointer.
I get my dog to run after a laser pointer all day long because she's just looking at this light that's making no sound.
It appears, it disappears, it goes on and off, it flickers in and out and it can move at astonishing speeds.
So that's my question.
Do you think this is a false implant or part of it is it's a false implant theory hiding the fact that we're either enclosed in a barrier On top of maybe a larger object and really unable to get in space, or that we're in a computer simulation.
All right.
I'll listen offline.
All right.
Here it comes.
Grant?
I believe we're in a hologram, yes.
I believe it's all just a hologram.
It's just one thing that we move around in.
I agree with that.
With the woman I know who you're talking about, all I can say from my own personal experience, I've been in this for 40 years.
I have never been threatened.
By anybody, and I chased the president, I chased the head scientist for the CIA, I've never been threatened by anybody, and I've never had a deep throat witness who was going to come to me and say, I'm going to violate my security oath and tell you what's going on.
I can just from my own personal experience.
So I always have doubts about, you know, the government knocking off UFO researchers and stuff like that, because I've never had anything even close to a threat.
All right, I'll hold it right there.
Grant Cameron is my guest.
We're talking about abductees.
Pretty, actually, very serious stuff.
Not pretty serious, very serious.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I'm Art Bell.
Well, you done done me and you bet I felt it. I tried to beat you, but you're so hot that I melted. I fell right
through the cracks, and now I'm trying to get back.
Before the cool done run out, I'll be giving it my bestest, and nothing's gonna stop me but divine intervention. I
reckon it's again my turn to win some or learn some. I won't hesitate no more.
No more, it cannot wait.
I'm yours.
THEME MUSIC MUSIC
MUSIC MUSIC
MUSIC From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
Alright, Grant Cameron is here.
And I've got a warm old message from Duncan, all the way in New Zealand, really.
Art, has Grant ever spoken with former Canadian Defense Minister Paul Hellyer regarding his call for world governments to disclose the E.T.
existence to the public?
Numerous times.
Numerous times.
With what result?
Well, I know he's made the call.
I mean, I know Paul fairly well.
I mean, he makes the call, almost every speech he makes, for openness and to disclose this whole situation.
Alright, let's go all the way to the other side of the world, I think, and you're on the air with Grant Cameron, hello.
Hello there in Thailand, are you there?
Yes, I am here, and you'll be understood to know, Art, that you're Your internet broadcast and Skype timing is off by about a minute.
Yeah, that's fine.
No problem.
It's the nature of the internet.
I have a quick question for Grant.
Go ahead.
I ask you if you agree with my observation that very much of the information about one kind of alien, if there are more than one, but one kind, ...is that they are talking just like a Buddhist, just like a Tibetan Buddhist.
Tibetan Buddhists are not worried about what happens to the world.
They will not intervene into people's lives or major catastrophes that are oncoming.
They just stand back and meditate.
There are many, many factors that Buddhism has talked about for 2,000 years that Theoretical physics, quantum physics, is now finally creeping up on.
So my question is, how do you see and could you possibly direct more people toward the study of Buddhism to connect with the physics and with the alien discussions?
All right.
Grant?
Okay, I think he's made a very valid point, is that quantum physics is now starting to validate What UFO people have been saying for the last 70 years.
And the same is happening with Eastern religions, with Buddhism.
It's starting to validate quantum physics.
There's even a big meeting with the Dalai Lama and some quantum physics people in Europe.
This is all coming together.
And I think it's just a matter of time that People are going to be more consciously aware of the fact that all these ideas tie together, and the physical worldview is going to start dying.
The fact that we believe that everything is separate and is physical.
The Buddhist ideas are gaining more prominence in the West, and so is quantum physics, and they both validate what UFO people have been saying forever.
All these ideas are coming together.
Okay, I'm good with that.
Let's go to Columbus, Ohio, on the phone.
You're on the air.
Yeah, I actually wanted to talk about the universe as a hologram topic.
A couple years ago, I read that they had discovered the Higgs boson particle, and it behaved exactly the way they thought that it would, only it had no mass, and subsequently they all freaked out.
That, you know, that essentially proved that this was all some sort of simulation.
And then immediately that article went away and I never found it again.
Yeah, I'm not sure it really proved that.
I never read that, but I can take your word for it.
If you could find it, I'd love to read that article again.
Essentially, you're talking about The Matrix, right?
Essentially, but I've got a different take on it.
I'm a lifer, and I did actually have one of those information dumps, and this kind of came to me after that.
Even if faster-than-light travel were possible, it would still take a lot of time to get from place to place.
What if this was just something to do along the way?
If you had to travel for 70 years and you needed something to occupy yourself, this is basically the DVD player in the back of the minivan.
To some degree, it depends on how much faster-than-light.
I mean, if it's a thousand times, then you're getting somewhere pretty quick.
Sure.
Infinitely.
Oh, let me change that.
If you can bend space, then you get there really quickly.
That is true.
Um, yeah, that, uh, there's that, uh, zero point documentary, uh, the Mark McCandless thing, uh, where they discuss that and faster than light travel and how it's possible, et cetera, et cetera.
And that kind of opened up a whole new, uh, a whole new realm of understanding for faster than light travel and that sort of thing.
So, um, anyway.
I guess that's all I had to say.
Thanks for taking my call.
All right.
Well, thank you for making the call.
And let's try Skype.
You're on the air with Grant.
Hello.
Hi.
You're talking to me, aren't you?
I am.
Where are you?
Well, I'm in northern Idaho, where we're having that drought, and we're getting half a crop right now.
OK.
Get good and close to the speaker mic on your computer, or whatever it is you're talking into.
I've got a headset mic.
OK.
Can you hear me all right?
I do.
Alright, well, really quick thing, I want to say hi to Dave and the X Paranormal Board, and my first question is, is it possible, I have to write these down, isn't it possible that maybe we're like one of those cargo cults that are in the Pacific, you know, like, say that we're like a big petri dish and the Earth is like a dead planet, like they're terraforming in Star Trek, and we were seeded here as an experiment, and that's why you have all these different alien races, the greys, the reptilians, Maybe, perhaps, it's like stimulus and response, and some cultures were wiped out, others were given technological advancements to see where it would take us.
Perhaps even, the guess that you have on now, perhaps that's even part of one of their experiments, a thought experiment to see what these people who are contacted will do, and the rest of us.
And, yeah.
Okay, well, pause for a minute.
You want to respond to any of that, Grant?
Well, I don't disagree with any of it.
I mean, sure, it's possible.
I mean, in fact, that's the whole thing behind the hybrid thing, is we're all the hybrids going and they may be seeding another planet.
I mean, I don't disagree that we were seeded and that there's an experiment going on.
I believe that evolution, the universe, is evolving and it's learning and it's growing and they're part of this growing and seeding and we're part of doing it on this planet.
We're trying to learn more and grow and So, I don't disagree with anything he's saying.
Well, yeah.
Can't beat that, caller.
Hello?
Yeah, I said you can't beat that.
No, you can't.
I mean, all of it is a reasonable argument.
We really don't know, and now is probably the best time to be posing these questions, so when we may possibly have contact in the future, finally escape this planet, you know, we'll know all the right questions to ask, so we'll kind of have a good idea in the future.
Maybe we're the Australia of the cosmos, you know, it's a prison planet, like some people think.
Gardnerville, hi.
Hi.
My name's Claudia Apollonian.
I have a lot of questions.
A lot of questions?
We don't have a lot of time, so take your best questions.
Okay, a few.
Okay.
Okay, I had dreams and one time for a whole week, it was like a panel of beings and they gave me all this information.
It was like I went to kindergarten to Harvard.
And then after that, I drew these drawings, like he was talking about.
People get the drawings, you know?
And they were so intricate.
I never drew before or after.
It was like a draftsman drew it.
Anyway, one of my questions is on the dreams.
Do you think that they come in on dreams a lot more because it's just easier for people to receive it?
Because I've seen UFOs in the awakened state.
Well, certainly when we're asleep, we're more susceptible.
There's no question about that.
Yeah, because one time I went to this, it was all the Buddhist monks, and I had asked the Dalai Lama if information came in to him that way, and he said most of his information comes in through the dream state.
So I wonder how many more people are really abducted, well not abducted, but downloaded, that don't really even know that they have been.
That's a good one.
Grant, what do you think?
Absolutely.
I'm very interested and I would ask the caller to make sure she writes all this kind of stuff down and documents this.
This is very, this is much more common than people think it is.
And I actually wrote this manuscript where I go through Nobel Prizes, I go through the concept of Google came in a dream, you know, the theory of relativity came in a dream.
This is very, very common that people are getting downloads through dreams, you know, musicians and stuff like that.
It's very, very common, and that's why I say it's so important to look at, rather than watching lights in the sky, or caring about what the government is doing, is to look at these experiencers and learn from the experiencers, from this woman that's calling in right now, what was she taught, what was she shown, and what does this all mean?
It means something, it means something very important to me.
For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
A strong 6.9 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of western Alaska near the islands of Four Mountains, according to the U.S.
Geological Service.
The epicenter of the tremor on Monday was 76 kilometers southeast of the Anaska Island, the largest island in a group in a chain of the volcanic Aleutian Islands that stretch across the northern Pacific from the U.S.
to Russia.
The quake struck at a depth estimated at 11.9 kilometers.
No tsunami alert was issued following the quake.
The Aleutian Islands run along the trench of the same name and comprise the northern part of the so-called Pacific Rim of Fire, an area of frequent seismic activity.
A new online video shows several cases of collisions and near mid-air collisions between UFOs and airplanes.
A YouTube video highlights the dangers that airplane pilots face due to frequent encounters with UFOs during flight.
One case involved an Aeromexico airplane and a UFO in Mexico.
The UFO hit the airplane near Cancun in southeastern Mexico.
Another involved a Cessna airplane near Tulico which was approached by five UFOs.
The UFOs approached the Cessna closely and passed by the other way, barely avoiding collision with the airplane.
In yet another incident, a UFO sphere flew past a Boeing 747, and in a separate incident, a light orb has a close brush with an airplane.
UFOlogists say that the incident of mid-air collisions and near collisions between airplanes and UFOs is higher than acknowledged.
And UFOlogists acknowledge that while most cases in the past involved remote-controlled drones, some cases are more difficult to explain.
This is Dark Matter News.
Hi, I'm Asia Bell, and it's very late, so I'm sleeping now.
But you're awake, so call my daddy, because he's awake, too.
The number is 1952-225-5278.
That's 1952, call us.
What can I say?
225-5278. That's 1952. Call us.
What can I say? Proud Daddy.
Good evening everybody.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
My guest is Grant Cameron.
He's talking about abduction, and there are a lot of abductions out there.
As mentioned, Bob Bigelow did a survey, and the results were astounding.
Absolutely astounding.
So, let's see.
Which way to go?
I've got so many.
Let's go here to Christoph.
I believe it is with Grant Cameron.
Christoph, where are you?
Christophe.
Hello?
Maybe it's Christopher.
I don't know.
Nah, he's not there.
So we will say goodbye, and we will go instead to... Let me see.
You know what?
I think Christophe was there.
Did you hear Christophe Grant?
Yes, I did.
Where was he?
Bangkok, he said.
Bangkok.
I'm sorry, Christophe, man.
I cut you off.
I'm sorry.
Still learning over here.
Let's try Cameron.
Cameron, you're on midnight.
Hello?
See, but Cameron's not there.
That's funny.
That's really funny.
Okay, that's fine.
Jacob on Skype, you're on.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Turn your whatever off, please.
Yes, sir.
Sorry about that.
And get good and close to your computer or whatever.
Okay.
There we go.
Is that better?
It's a little better, yes.
Okay.
Much better now?
Yes, much better.
Do you have a question?
Yes.
I wanted to ask a question for your guests tonight because I've heard a lot with the abduction phenomena, things like Cattle mutilations and half-cats are another thing I've heard, and if he believes that alien life forms are benevolent, then where are these kind of stories coming from?
What a good question!
What a good, good question!
Cattle mutilations, half-cats, things that, at least to humans, appear to be very, very negative.
What about that, Grant?
As to cattle mutilations, I look at who would be the most likely to leave half a cow, like this mutilated cow, in plain view.
And I would say that it's not the government, because the government would take it and dump it.
If the aliens wanted it for genetic material, they could take it and keep it.
I always go to this thing about leaving messages.
The cats, I can't really explain, but when it comes to the cattle mutilations, when I see that, I just see a message, because most of them are downrange from nuclear power plants and places like that, and I say it's just a message.
They want people to take pictures.
They want this message to think something's going on here.
Grant, I really want to ask you this.
And it's going to be a hard question for you.
Yeah.
Are you sure that when you hear these things that are negative, and frankly there are a lot of things about aliens and encounters and abductions and, you know, the whole range that do or would have to be seen negatively, are you sure that you don't, I don't know, lock them out because you don't want to believe that?
No.
As I said, the more I look at it, The less I believe in the whole idea about evil aliens.
To me, it goes to the thing about evil other countries and stuff like that.
There may be things that people do.
It's like you and I, there are no...
I get it.
I mean, you really do believe what you're saying.
Let's go back to Christoph.
Christoph, turn off your radio or your whatever.
OK.
All the way off.
OK, should be off.
Can you hear me well?
I hear you quite well, yes.
You're in Bangkok?
I'm in Bangkok indeed.
I'm so excited to get through to you after 20 years.
I'm glad to have you, my friend.
This new technology we have makes the world a pretty small place, I'd say.
Indeed, I just tried on Skype on the laptop, that didn't work, so I just went straight to my iPhone.
It was me that screwed you up, I'm sorry.
Okay, so I have a question for Grant, and I also have something that might be of interest regarding the other show from before with Nassim.
But first a question for Grant, so maybe linked to the other caller from Asia who talked about Buddhism.
Back in the 90s, I was camping in the Sandia Peak in New Mexico, and I experienced an abduction over there.
So, we used to lock our tent before going to sleep.
The mountain lions that night were going crazy.
And the day after, when we woke up, the locks were open and laying inside the tent next to the net.
So, we were I was talking to my ex-girlfriend and I was asking her, like, hey, did you go to the bathroom or what happened?
She said, no, I just stayed in.
So it was a bit of a mystery.
And when we walked outside, I was going to make some pancakes in the morning.
She said, what's this on your shoulder over there?
And it was like the red dots in the shape of a pyramid.
So they were perfectly mathematically aligned.
They stayed for about four days.
And when you had your other collar on here about Buddhism in Thailand, it just struck me that whenever we go into a cab over here, the cab becomes blessed, so they have these dots painted in the shape of a pyramid on the ceiling, on the roof of the cab, just for good luck.
So, first of all, I wanted to ask Grant over here, have you ever heard this kind of story before, that somebody has left these marks on their shoulder, and what do you think about that connection?
It's absolutely very common.
It's probably the most common mark that's left is this triangle mark, either sort of a triangle filled in, or like the three dots that form the triangle.
It's very, very common.
Okay, thank you.
Another thing, the point I wanted to make about the show with Nassim and about how can we communicate like with the new planet, I think Kepler-452b or something.
Yes.
There might be a way actually, because we're always thinking like it takes over a thousand years to get there.
When Nassim talked about these entangled particles, that if we can separate them we can move them anywhere.
Yes.
We're a step closer.
Only we would have to bring them there.
Now, what if these entangled particles exist all over the universe?
We just have to find the matching pairs.
Pretty cool idea.
Yeah, you can be sure we're going to pursue that one, my friend.
Okay.
Nice talking to you.
Absolutely wonderful show.
And you have a fan over here.
Okay.
Thank you.
Imagine that.
All the way from Thailand.
Sounds like he's right in the room.
It's just Absolutely astounding.
Scott on Skype, you're on the air.
Hello.
Scott, hello.
Maybe not easy enough to go to, let's see, Gysanji, is that correct?
Yeah, yeah.
Again, get good and close to your microphone, please.
All right.
It was this guy in Amarillo, Texas.
Amarillo, okay.
Yeah.
I wanted to know, Terrence McKenna came up earlier and he talks about, in some of his DMT explorations, running into what he describes as self-transforming machine elves.
And I wonder if maybe Grant thinks that might be a more accurate or better way of thinking about or conceiving of aliens?
Okay, actually it's a superb question.
Grant, there are plenty of people Who think that some drugs are a key to the kind of realms that you've been talking about?
It is worth a comment.
What do you say?
The same thing.
It's all connected.
And I've done this manuscript and I do the different types of downloads.
And the one chapter I do is on psychedelics.
And yes, psychedelics is the same thing.
It's breaking the conscious mind.
It's ripping the filter and allowing you to move out of the conscious mind into this non-local world, the dream world, and pick up this type of information.
It's exactly the same thing.
It's the same thing as meditation.
It's just a faster sort of sidestepping way of doing it.
There's all sorts of ways that we can do this.
Okay.
Pam, through the wormhole, says, what does Grant think of the so-called shadow government?
How does it fit into the scheme?
What are their motives?
What do they stand to gain with all their meddling in the world government?
Well, I can just speak of the American, which I studied.
The shadow government, I believe they Again, people will see them as evil.
I just see them as deluded people who think they're doing the right thing.
There are 13 presidents who have dealt with the UFO subject.
They have all dealt with it exactly the same way.
Republican, Democrat.
They all believe they're trying to save the world.
They all believe, for whatever reason, that they're doing the right thing.
Otherwise, people would defect.
Nobody's defecting, which means they, for whatever reason, believe they're doing the right thing.
And I would say that the reason that they're withholding it, the number one reason is that we're the good guys, and we want to keep these secrets.
And if we give it to al-Qaeda and ISIL, they're going to use it to kill Americans.
I would say that's the number one reason why they're withholding the information.
All right.
Carl on Skype, you're on the air.
Uh, hi, yeah.
Hi, where are you?
Uh, Dayton, Ohio.
Okay, that's what.
Um, yeah, I was just wondering, um, your guest seems to, uh, think that the, uh, they're all benevolent.
Right.
What's to say that, um, you know, I mean, how many races of aliens do you think there are?
Probably billions or trillions.
So what's the chance of, you know, them all being benevolent?
As Richard Hoagland would say, it only takes one white crow.
It only takes one nasty group or race of aliens to stomp on us like an anthill.
That's Art saying this, not Grant.
Okay, so you're saying that, is there a nation on the earth that is absolutely evil, where women do not ...mourn for their children who die in war.
Is there a nation that we should bomb out of existence because they're totally evil?
I don't know if that's what he's saying.
Well, if you're going to make that analogy with other planets, is there something on this Earth where we had the Japanese who were totally evil, and we dropped two atomic bombs on them, and then suddenly the evil evaporated, and suddenly they're great guys, and we're trading with them, and they're our friends.
Evil changes from time to time.
We have this impression that we put evil on a nation, and then we have a right to go and bomb them and kill them.
And I'm saying there really is no evil nation.
There are people who do good and bad things, and for whatever reasons, but there are no evil nations where everybody in that nation is evil.
Grant?
Grant?
Yes?
Do you have a response?
I just made a statement to what?
Or a caller?
Do you have a response?
Oh.
No?
I guess that's a no.
All right, Colin.
Well, thank you.
Nobody had anything to say.
Let's go to the phones and say hello.
You're on with Grant Cameron.
You rock, Art.
Thanks.
I try.
Is that all you want to say?
I guess that's all he wants to say.
Very kind of you.
Let's try Skype.
Scott on Skype.
AR, can you hear me this time?
Yes.
Well, I tried my headset last time, but first of all, I'm listening to you on iTunes.
Tune in on PlayStation 3.
Yes.
Fantastic.
I'm actually working as I'm listening to you on my laptop, and it's good to have you back.
Thank you.
I've been listening to you for years.
Thank you.
To your guest, well, first of all, you touched on the African contact and the school children.
Is there more information on that?
And does he have any information on possibly interaction at LH, the Large Hadron Collider, and anything there with stopping of testing?
I don't think they're going to stop, Grant.
I don't know anything about the second question.
The first one I can add to the African, the Rhodesian case.
There's actually a documentary coming out on this thing.
Really fascinating.
John Mack had gone and interviewed these children and one of them has now come public with all her paintings and her experience in the downloads that she got from the aliens and they're now putting together a documentary of whatever kids are now in their thirties Talking about what happened to them and the messages they got.
So there is a documentary that is being done as we speak.
All right.
Let's go to Denver, Colorado.
Hello.
Hi, this is Jim in Inglewood, Colorado.
Hey.
Hi.
I'm very glad.
Are we on the air right now?
We are.
Turn off your device, please.
There is a very long delay between about 30 seconds between here and there.
Okay.
Okay, great, great.
Well, great.
Glad to have you back.
We love you very much.
Thank you.
And Grant, just wondering, this is kind of a cross-genre question, but people involved on the planet Earth seem to be capable of communicating with souls that have passed away, physically passed away.
Is it possible aliens are not intervening and are involved past us, and that may be because of a sense of spirituality, and is it not possible some of our ghost contacts I mean, do they have spirits?
Do they have souls?
And is it possible they are some of the ghosts that we encounter?
Okay.
76% of experiencers claim encounters with ghosts and spirits.
Again, it's all connected.
You're interacting with this world that the experiencers are able to Get into this world through dreams through whatever and they're interacting like a lot of experiences We'll talk once they've had their experience.
They'll talk about the shadow people in the houses They'll talk about the fact that they're able to heal people that they can see Aura's that they're seeing ghosts all this paranormal phenomena starts happening around them and it's almost like a they ripped the filter and All this stuff starts to enter is it's all connected.
It's just moving out of this physical mindset that we have and You start encountering the rest of consciousness the rest of the universe which is is not the physical world Excellent one other quick point if I might in that is isn't it probable possible.
It's not probable and that many of the alien encounters that people experience
are not with organic beings, but that if the aliens are so evolved that they can create
what would be the ultimate robot that can withstand the physical rigors of space travel?
I would say, if I were to guess, I would say that the majority...
you even had our first guest, when he was talking about the school kids,
where people come in balls of light.
I believe that I would not be surprised if all of this stuff is almost like spiritual type beings, that they're really not going to be any aliens.
Grant, listen, the phones are ringing off the hook, but we're out of time.
And when I say out of time, really out of time.
Give me your website or whatever you want to plug real quick.
PresidentialUFO.com is my website.
PresidentialUFO.com.
So, if they want to read more about this, presumably be in touch with you, or something like that, that would be the place.
Yeah, or give me my email, WhiteHouseUFO at gmail.com.
All right.
Thank you for being on the program, my friend.
Thank you so very much.
Um, everybody stay tuned for Richard C. Hoagland.
He comes up next, but that's all the time I've got.
People insist I play all of this, and so I do, because, well, it's crystal.
From the high desert to the world, good night.
We're filled with the longing, searching for the truth.
Will we make it till tomorrow?
Will the sun shine on you?
Midnight in the desert, and we're listening.
Who I left behind me?
Cause baby, you'll sing a long, long song Even when the music's gone
So baby, love me in your heart And I'll sing you in your song
Kiss me someday And I won't behave
Maybe I won't thank you 🎵
Midnight in the desert And there's wisdom in the air
I've been looking for the answer All my life I've held you there
As the world we live in quickens I'll be eating all the signs Have we lost our intuition?
Are we running out of time?
Midnight in the desert And we're listening Ooh, we're listening to you And we're listening
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