Art Bell

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July 27, 2015 - Art Bell

02:35:18

Art Bell MITD - Grant Cameron

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40:40

grant cameron

56:48

leo ashcraft

08:46

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good afternoon, good morning, whatever the case may be, wherever you are in the wide, wide world, which we cover.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		And I'm Mark Bell, and I only have two rules for this show.
		Abide by them.
		No bad language, and only one call per show.
		That's it.
		Those are the rules.
		Now, I have some people that I always like to thank.
		The great sound that you hear coming from this program, and it is great sound, is assisted and transported, and in fact, pretty much created by Telos.
		Great sound.
		Joe Talbot here in Toronto, Nevada, thank you.
		Of course, Telos is a worldwide corp as well.
		Keith Rowland, my webmaster of forever.
		Dr. Jay, who does a great job as my producer.
unidentified		All of you, of course, the Bulgab website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shout out, guys.
		StreamGuys, they do a lot of delivery of packets for us.
		LV.net, they both deliver, well, I guess it arrives and leaves by LV.net.
		And then, of course, Peter Eberhardt, he's our sales guy.
		Now, it's getting to be a long list, huh?
		So, coming up tonight, we're going to be looking at abductions.
unidentified		Actually, we have an abductee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He wasn't going to be the original guest, but he is now, he's not the original guest, but he's coming along now with Grant Cameron.
		Cameron, Grant investigates people who are abducted, and so I thought it would be useful.
		And my producer produced somebody at the last moment for me, Adam Ambrose.
		And we'll ask him about his abductions, plural.
		Now, one last thing that I must get to, and that is how to call the program when you get around to calling the program.
		Something you can do right now, actually.
		Put Skype on your smartphone.
		The coolest, best way to call this program is put Skype on your phone.
		And then please note the numbers for Skype.
		Because what you can do is act like you're going to add me as a contact.
		And even though I don't respond, it doesn't matter because then it appears on your list and you can just dial it at your whim.
		So in North America, Canada, the U.S., we have MITD55.
		That's my Skype name.
		M-I-T-D 55.
		If you're elsewhere in the world, we have M-I-T-D 5-5.
		M-I-T-D-5-5.
		So there you have it.
		Off in a moment to our guests, but just a couple more things.
		You know, there is a theory, right, about time jumping and the Bermuda triangle.
		Well, the case of, brought to us by Anomalous.com, Bruce Gernan and his impossible jump forward in time, as he, get this, flew his small plane toward Bimini.
		That's just about where it always occurs.
		They reported being surrounded by a strange, thick cloud and ending up miles away with no accounting for the fact that his 75-minute trip had only taken 45 minutes.
		Was it caused by some supernatural force?
		The cloud itself?
		We don't know.
		But he was in the place where that stuff happens.
		Oh, the Obama administration has decided that the NSA has to stop listening, examining, and will ultimately be forced to destroy millions of American calling records that it has collected under a controversial program leaked by former agency contractor,
		hero, traitor, you pick it, Edward Snowden.
		He's one of the two.
		With reference to the recent headshakers, you know, the movie theater killings, one professor of psychiatry calls it the conversation we're stuck with.
		A teachable moment growing out of horror.
		You know, and that's really all they can say about it.
		They don't know, you know, what causes someone to do something crazy like that.
		Two four-plus earthquakes in Oklahoma, but you know what, folks?
		They were preceded by a gigantic bang.
		Remember we talked about, you and I talked about four-point bangs, right?
		Linda Howe?
		And earthquakes?
		Well, there you have it.
		A big bang followed by two four-point earthquakes or better.
		One more calling tip, by the way, folks, and then away we go.
		And that is when you call the phone here, please, please, please, please do me a big favor and let it ring until it's answered.
		I know sometimes you have to then re-dial if it doesn't get answered, but that's how it works.
		Let it ring till it's answered.
		We don't screen calls, so kaboom, you're just on the air like that.
		All right, coming up in a moment will be our guests.
		And it's going to be an interesting night.
		If you ever wanted to really know about abductions, you're going to find out as much as you wanted to know, I suspect, this night on Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
		Hi, I'm Asia Bell, and it's very late, so I'm sleeping now.
		But you're awake, so call my daddy because he's awake, too.
		The number is 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1952.
		Call one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know who that was, right?
		That was Mark Ross with a headache.
		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Midnight in the Desert, and away we go.
		So, oh, what a night indeed.
		Let's begin here.
		Grant Cameron, he's going to be the main guest tonight.
		He is a recipient of the 2012 Leeds Conference International Researcher of the Year Award and the 2013 UFO Congress Researcher of the Year.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He became a UFO researcher back in 1975 after a personal sighting.
		Yep, that'll do it.
		He has extensively researched the role of the Canadian government, the President of the U.S., and the intelligence agencies in the cover-up in the UFO phenomenon as well, and the role of consciousness in UFO reports.
		And I'm particularly interested in that part, consciousness.
		So let us bring on Grant and say good evening, Grant.
		Good to have you.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art, and it's a pleasure to be on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you know, I know I sprung this on you, but I thought it'd be pretty cool, since you're going to talk about this subject, if we would reach out and actually get a subject.
		And we have.
		His name is Adam Ambrose, and he is with us right now.
		He is, Adam is an abductee.
		Adam, hello.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And can everybody hear each other?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
unidentified		Yes, I can.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Adam, let us begin with you.
		You've had many abductions, but there are two in particular that I want to talk to you about tonight.
		And one was a schoolyard landing of a craft with mass witnesses.
		And somewhere in the back of my brain, Adam, it seems to me I heard about this in a story on the Internet or on the news or somewhere.
		Is that possible?
unidentified		This story has not been out on the national level.
		It's been talked about a little on the Internet recently.
		Okay.
		Although, yeah, you may be thinking of the aerial school landing.
		That's gotten a lot of press.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I may be.
		All right.
		Tell me what happened at your school.
unidentified		This was 1970.
		I was quite young, actually.
		I was eight years old.
		This was New Jersey, North Upper New Jersey.
		I was middle of the day.
		It happened at recess time.
		So we all got dismissed out.
		We were all on the playground, scatters about 50 to 70 children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is a long time ago, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're older than that now, right?
unidentified		That's correct.
		I'm 52.
		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's a long time ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Continue.
unidentified		It is.
		Yes.
		I do have quite a vivid recall of it.
		However, I do have a good memory, and it's left a really strong impression on me, this particular memory.
		So there were quite a number of students out, several dozen, and it was a fairly large area, grassed, a lot of trees all around, so it's kind of secluded.
		I don't remember who first noticed there was a strange object in the sky.
		Somebody pointed it out, and I remember looking up and seeing an object.
		It was about the size of a walnut at arm's length, maybe a little smaller at first when I first saw it.
		And it was dark.
		It was moving very slowly.
		It was like drifting.
		And at first I remember thinking, is that a blimp or is that like a hot air balloon?
		I wasn't certain.
		It was pretty far off.
		So it comes closer and closer.
		And we're all just standing there watching it.
		I mean, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many of you roughly?
unidentified		There was roughly 50 to 70 at least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of witnesses.
		There may have been more.
		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And everybody's attention was on the sky.
		And this object, as it drifted closer, it got lower very gradually also.
		So it's almost as if it was trying not to frighten us looking back in hindsight compared to some other sightings I had had.
		And it just kept drifting closer, probably over the period of a minute or two.
		It took a while until it was over the treetops about 300, 400 yards away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By that time, it's pretty big, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
		By the time I saw it over the treetops, like 300 yards away, it was about, I would say, the size of a lemon at arm's length, maybe even bigger.
		Okay.
		And it had, it did this funny thing.
		As it got really low, it started to, it sort of, it didn't stop, but it did this turn to my right and then swooped Down.
		So it's not like it came straight down and landed.
		It was moving toward us, and as it was moving toward us, it was also coming down.
		So at this point, once we start seeing it clearly, I'm like, that's a structured craft of some kind.
		That's not a hot air balloon.
		That's not an airplane.
		And I, because I've been through this before, but I would only have this periodic awareness of it, I knew what it was.
		All of a sudden, I was like, I had a premonition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you're a multiple abductee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've been abducted many times, right?
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Many times since early, early childhood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so this craft, in front of all these witnesses, Adam, actually landed, right?
unidentified		Right.
		So that's what I was trying to say that, yeah, as it got close and just before it landed, I heard like some children started to get really frightened and some were actually screaming and yelling.
		I was calm because I think at that point when it was that close, they had started to alter my awareness, which was what they would usually do.
		I saw it land about 30 feet away from me and it hovered and then it didn't touch the grass.
		I saw these three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, excuse me.
		You're using two terms.
		You say it hovered and it landed.
		Landing implies to most people it touched the ground.
unidentified		No, I meant I think, well, what I was saying was that just before it landed is what it that it hovered close to the ground and simultaneously I saw a leg start to protrude from the bottom of it.
		So it was very gently coming down.
		Like it just stopped above the ground and then just enough so that these legs could come out.
		And I remember just standing there transfixed watching the legs come out and touch the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually in shock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've had a big close sighting and it puts you in shock.
unidentified		At this point, yeah, definitely.
		I was stunned.
		I was not particularly feeling like a pitched fear, although, like I said, I was aware some of the other children were because some were yelling.
		And so we're just standing there looking at this thing.
		Now, at this point, I think I had already slipped into the odds factor, what they call, where they had altered my awareness, but I was still very awake.
		It's not like being in a trance.
		I was very lucid and aware of what was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you were conscious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your consciousness was working just fine.
unidentified		It's just that they had taken away the fear for me, and not necessarily as effectively for others.
		So now this craft is sitting about 30 feet away from me.
		I see a door.
		I don't know how else to explain it.
		A pretty small, like a hatch open.
		And there was this opening in the craft.
		And the next thing I remember, I saw a bright flash of light.
		And I don't remember seeing a being get out of the craft through the hatch.
		But after the bright flash of light dissipated, there was a translucent ball.
		There was actually three of them.
		And I could see inside it, there was a being.
		And inside each one.
		And they floated over the grass toward us.
		Now, I was standing toward the back of the playground near the fence.
		So there was children surrounding it.
		You know, there were ones in the back, way back.
		So I had a good view, like front-on view.
		And the next memory is that this translucent ball just kept moving up closer and closer to me.
		Now, at some point in here, as it was moving closer and closer, it got quiet.
		It got really eerily just quiet.
		The kids that were yelling stopped.
		And I could see around me that they were frozen like statues.
		They were switched off.
		And I couldn't move either.
		I had this frozen state that came over me.
		I was paralyzed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I completely understand.
		And by the way, Grant, feel free to ask a question at any point during this you want.
		Okay.
unidentified		Continue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're frozen.
unidentified		Well, so I'm essentially paralyzed.
		I mean, I can't move, not just paralyzed with fear, but physically can't move my legs like a statue.
		So this is something also, again, I've experienced that before.
		So I wasn't particularly alarmed by that aspect of it.
		But this creature got very close to me, and the translucent ball dissipated.
		It disappeared, and the creature was just standing in front of me.
		I mean, two feet in front of me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy macaron.
unidentified		And I was aware that there was communication between me and the being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I also could see, in my peripheral vision, the other two beings were standing near a couple of other children.
unidentified		Now, the next thing I remember is that we were moving toward the craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me.
		I've got to ask.
		You said there was communication going on.
unidentified		What was imparted to you?
		Well, see, that's the thing.
		I cannot remember it like a conversation, literally word for word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		But you used that word imparted.
		I like that word because that's how I felt was that I knew that I was being prompted.
		Like I knew it was happening.
		this is going to happen, we're going to...
		We want you to come with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there you go.
unidentified		I remember that.
		And so I was aware of what was happening.
		I was very calm.
		And like I said, it had gotten silent.
		And the other children were very spaced out at that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So did you, we've got to keep this short.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you go with them?
unidentified		Well, that's pretty much it.
		Yeah, I mean, I remember going in the craft, and I remember coming back, but I don't remember being on the craft.
		And then the last memory is standing there, and I remember coming to full awareness, and we're all just standing there, and it lifts up, and leaves exactly the same way it came.
		It drifted off very slowly.
		And I remember the teacher, this is the last point, the teacher saw it because she came out, and I think she was inside looking through the window, because she came out, and she was in a panic, and she rushed us all in.
		She said, come and come inside.
		And she was standing by the window, and she was freaking out.
		She was really upset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, I'm going to have to do a whole show with you, which I promise I will do.
		In the meantime, I want to move on to the other one that you have.
		That's right.
		You went through.
		I hear a brick wall.
		You actually went through a brick wall.
		Is that true?
unidentified		Yeah, that is correct.
		That is correct.
		A preacher took you through a brick wall?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And more than that, I understand there was a witness to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
unidentified		That is true.
unidentified		There was a witness to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, lay it on me.
unidentified		Well, this was a daytime event.
		I was in school.
		I was in the eighth grade.
		And I was upstairs.
		It was a two-story grade school.
		And I was sitting in the classroom.
		And suddenly I had what I don't know how to describe except as a premonition, an awareness that I was going to have an event.
		I was going to be visited.
		When I would have a visitation, I would have a premonition beforehand.
		And I got the message in my head, almost like an instruction, an order.
		Go downstairs to the bottom level, which was actually the basement level of the building, which was really kind of creepy down there.
		It was dark.
		And it was like this old building from like the early part of the century.
		And I was scared to go down there.
		But I went down there and I was just waiting in the hallway.
		And I knew at that point that I was going to be visited.
		And I remember standing there in the hallway and looking down the hallway.
		And this ball of light appeared.
		It was different from the other one.
		It wasn't translucent.
		It was solid ball of light.
		And it was about the size of a basketball.
		And it was moving up the hallway slowly toward me.
		And I remember just standing there, frozen, transfixed, not afraid, but it got right up, came right up to me.
		Again, there was this communication.
		And I remember specifically, it said, come with me, follow me.
		There was a janitorial closet which jutted out into the hallway.
		It's kind of hard to explain, but anyway, it was like an L-shaped hallway.
		You had to walk around the janitorial closet to get through this hallway.
		So we walk into the janitorial closet, and I didn't know what the heck we were doing going in there, but we walked to the back of the closet.
		The being communicates with me again, just standing there.
		We're going to do this.
		We're going to go in a classroom.
		See, I had been co-opted to assist in abductions.
		I don't know if I said that earlier.
		And this was from the time I was very young, and Bud Hopkins had told me I was one of the first cases of that he had ever come across.
		So this is what I'm describing.
		And it was a multiple abduction out of the school.
		But I'm standing in the janitorial closet, and as I'm standing there in front of this being, I see the janitor come in the closet, and he's fully awake and lucid.
		And then all of a sudden, he sees me standing there next to this creature, and I see this scared look on his face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, young.
unidentified		And he's just standing there stunned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, young.
unidentified		Of course.
		And we, me and the being, I saw the being turn into a ball of light.
		I turn into a ball of light.
		And we teleported through the wall.
		And this is not the part that the janitor witnessed necessarily because I think he was switched off at that point.
		But just to say real quick, we went down the hallway into a classroom.
		A student was taken out of a classroom.
		And then we teleported through a lower window up into a craft which was hovering over the school.
		I don't remember being on the craft again.
		I do, however, have a lot of memories where I do remember being on a craft.
		In this particular incident, I don't.
		But I remember coming back, and this is the part that you wanted to hear about.
		When we came back, we did not turn into a ball of light.
		We approached this brick wall, which I said this hallway was in this L shape.
		So when we went through this inside wall of the janitorial closet was exposed to the hallway.
		So we just walked through this wall, and then I remember seeing the janitor standing there, and then the being left.
		He teleported through the wall.
		I came back into full consciousness and left the janitorial closet.
		And the next day, the janitor came up to me, and he said, I saw you yesterday.
		He said, I saw you in the janitorial closet.
		You came through that wall with some sort of a strange creature.
		And he was freaking me out because he had never even spoken to me before.
		I didn't know this guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, imagine.
		I mean, by now, you'd been through several abductions.
		Imagine the poor janitor.
		It's not every day you see a schoolchild transported through a brick wall.
unidentified		He was terrified, and he just said, you're in danger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got it.
unidentified		You're in danger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Through a brick wall, my God.
		All right.
		This janitor and these stories, I mean, there's so much public witnessing going on with all of this that you would think it would be, I don't know, one of the biggest UFO stories in the world with witnesses.
unidentified		Or you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		I'm sorry, I didn't.
		Did I cut you off?
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't.
		You said, you know what?
		And I said, what?
unidentified		Bud Hopkins, it just made me think of what he told me when I worked with him in the 90s.
		he said, even he remarked, he said, well, that's unusual, witnessing.
		And I said, well, I've had so many events, though.
		Like, I have a near photographic memory, and I have memory of hundreds of events going back to early childhood.
		And I said, you know, I know that it's not uncommon, actually, to have witnessing.
		And David Jacobs talks about that.
		It's just that most people don't come forward.
		And you have to remember, this was the 70s.
		I was a little kid.
		I didn't know that this was even happening to anyone else.
		And that janitor scared me.
		It wasn't like I was, I remember telling my father.
		I said, I thought I saw a creature in the house.
		It was like, it was just a dream.
		It was just a dream, Adam, you know.
		So I stopped talking about it.
		That's the thing.
		I didn't know who to, you know, who was I going to report it to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, all of this happened to you all your life, beginning at about what age?
unidentified		Well, my earliest memory of an event, I was actually in the crib.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, I'm going to have to leave you now, and I'm going to thank you, and we're going to do a whole show together, okay?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Adam, thank you very, very much for joining us.
		It's not every day that you get a kid, actually a grown-up now, who was seen walking through a brick wall.
		It just doesn't happen with brick walls.
		Anyway, my guest coming up in a moment, Graham Cameron, I'm sure, is going to have lots to say about this.
		You're listening to Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
		Teach to leave them kids alone.
		The End For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		This is One Devilish Controversy, a controversial statue unveiled in Detroit.
		The group behind it took great efforts to make it a private exclusive party.
		At least 100 people eagerly waiting for what's been kept well under wraps.
		Some drove in as far away as upstate New York to see the Satanic Temple unveil a nine-foot-tall bronze statue of a goat-headed Satan.
		Security inside was tight, no cameras or media was allowed in, and no cell phones or photographs allowed.
		The secretive nature of the event didn't prevent a few protesters from attending.
unidentified		We figured, well, if they're going to unveil a statue and show statue, well, we're going to show the statue that beat this statue behind the scenes in reality.
unidentified		It's, you know, recounted in the St. John's apocalypse that St. Michael and his angels defeated Lucifer and his angels.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Members of the Satanic Temple, who say they stand for the separation of church and state, kept mum Saturday night, focused instead on showing their guests a good time.
		Some came out of curiosity, others to appreciate the art.
		And they say, don't knock it just because it's not your taste.
unidentified		A sculpture or a piece of art or a tribute to something that they don't understand is not necessarily going to impact their religion or their beliefs.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		There was so much abuz about the night the Detroit police set up outside just to make sure the Satanists and the naysayers stayed civil.
		In the end, the group made good on its promise to make it an exclusive event.
		The guests that were patient enough to make it through the line were promptly sent out the back door where outsiders can only imagine the real party awaits.
		This is Dark Matter News.
		The crew of a fishing vessel recorded a huge squid attempting to make off with a fish that they had caught, and it was all caught on video.
		In the video, the squid is trying to eat a large fish while the sailors prod the animal with a pole to drive it off.
		The squid is about five times as big as the huge fish it's trying to snatch.
		The massive creature makes a valiant attempt but is eventually pushed away by the sailors.
		It remains unclear which species of squid this one is.
		There are two, the giant squid, which is long, and the colossal squid, which is broader and even larger than its cousin.
		Not much is known about the species because only a few specimens have ever been caught or captured.
		Giant and colossal squids are about 12 meters in length.
		China has officially embarked on the next stage towards a new era of stargazing.
		The construction of the largest radio telescope in the world began in 2011.
		Now the panels that will make up the giant space viewing machine are finally being assembled.
		The telescope is called FAST or the 500-meter aperture spherical telescope.
		On Thursday, technicians began inserting the 4,450 triangular reflector panels into place.
		This whopping reflector will dwarf all other radio telescopes when it comes to its dish size, measuring some 1,640 feet in diameter.
		Each equivalent triangular panel has a side length of 36 feet.
		The second largest radio telescope built, the Aerocibo Observatory, is in Puerto Rico and is 1,000 feet across in diameter.
		The telescope will be nestled comfortably in a valley in the Karst Depression located in the Gizu province.
		This site was chosen because it is ideally located in isolation from towns or residents.
		There is a three-mile area around the dish separating it from any people and therefore any interference.
		A giant telescope of this size is a sensitive instrument and needs radio silence to pick up accurate signals.
		They say the telescope's purpose is to help them search for intelligent life outside of the galaxy and explore the origins of the universe.
		Fortunately for any tourists, the designers of the telescope have prepared for a certain level of public interest.
		There is an observation platform being built on one of the hills surrounding the telescope, the best place to appreciate a 500-meter piece of technology that will peer into space on our behalf.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News If you could read my mind, love, what a tale my thoughts could tell.
		Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wishing well.
		In a castle dark or a fortress strong with chains upon my feet.
		You know that ghost is me.
		And I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost.
		You can't see.
		Midnight matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness like Art Bell.
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALLARTH.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Adam obviously had a very great deal to say, and it was not served by the time we gave him.
		It was very short, so we'll have him back for a full show.
		Depend on that.
		In the meantime, though, here comes Grant Cameron.
		And Grant, you originally, I guess, were you spent, what, 37 years looking into the role of government and intelligence agencies and things like that, and somehow, somehow, made a switch to researching abductions.
		How did that happen?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, basically what happened is I had what it was called, I call it a download experience that occurred in 2012.
		Yes.
		In February, I had this experience, but the main thing that made me move was sort of the frustration of spinning your wheels, not getting anywhere, and suddenly realizing that the president knows what's going on, the appropriations committee knows what's going on, the intelligence agencies know what's going on, but they're never going to tell you.
		And so I suddenly realized, it dawned on me that if you really want to know what's going on with UFOs, I mean, you can watch stuff fly around in the sky and count how many green ones there are, how many fast ones, the slow ones, and all this kind of stuff, and you're never going to learn anything about what's going on because it really doesn't tell you anything.
		It's not until you actually do what Travis Walton did, is run up to one and flag it down and have it take you on board.
		It's not until you talk to somebody who's been inside the ship or who has interacted with the beings who are behind the UFO phenomena that you're going to learn what's going on because the government's never going to tell you.
		The intelligence agencies aren't going to tell you.
		And the experiencers are going to tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I know Travis.
		I've interviewed him multiple times.
		No doubt I will again.
		In fact, he did agree to an interview.
		And his story is incredible, just amazing.
		Sounds like you made your move for about the same reason I did.
		I was talking about politics.
		I couldn't stand it anymore.
		It was frustrating.
		One day I just stopped, and I started talking about things like this because, well, because they interest me.
		So sounds like the same reason.
		But you said you had a download experience.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what happened to me was, and my most dramatic event was I had the UFO sighting in 1975, and you had a dramatic one as well.
		And it's hard to explain to people who haven't had it, but it basically changed your life.
		I mean, like, I fell off the edge of the earth when I saw this thing.
		I just couldn't believe that I'd actually seen it, and it was up close, and there was no doubt.
		I didn't really know exactly what it was, but I knew it was nothing that was on this planet.
		And so that was my first dramatic experience.
		The second one was when I had this download experience.
		I'm sitting watching Colin Andrews, who is the guy who invented the term crop circles, and he's giving a lecture in Phoenix, Arizona at UFO Congress.
		I go to the lecture.
		I'm not interested in the lecture.
		The only reason I went was because Colin Andrews was giving the lecture, and he's a high-profile figure from ufology.
		I figured I'd pay him the respect.
		I'm in there.
		I'm sort of not paying attention.
		He's talking about consciousness and crop circles, and his theory was that 80% of all crop circles, he was financed by Lawrence Rockefeller to find out who was behind the crop circles.
		And he came to the determination that 80% of crop circles are created by hoaxes.
		20% are real, created by some sort of alien force.
		And this lecture that he gave was saying that the 80% that are hoaxed are also being controlled by the aliens, that the aliens are telling the hoaxers what to put down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that's true?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		80% hoaxed?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just giving Colin Andrews figure.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I'm not an expert on crying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I know.
		I was just asking if you agree with that.
		I mean, I've seen so many of them, and yeah, there's a few, I don't know, kind of funky ones, but there are, most of them are gorgeous beyond understanding of how they could have been made by a bunch of guys with boards and chains.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the ones I saw, I saw some here in Canada in the late 1980s, and I was floored when I saw how these things were woven, how the wheat is all sort of woven together and stuff.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		So I was very impressed by it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm so sorry.
		I didn't even ask.
		You're a tasty Canadian?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
		I live just north of the North Dakota border.
		And that's how I got involved, was that North Dakota had 300 nuclear weapons, Miniman 3 nuclear weapons with 10 warheads.
		And in 1975, they put in 100 new weapons in North Dakota to shoot down Russian missiles.
		And that's exactly when, on my side of the border, about 25 miles from the border, when they put these 100 new weapons to shoot down Russian missiles, that suddenly all these sightings started.
		And they went on for a year from February of 1975 till November of 1975 when they started taking the nuclear weapons out of North Dakota because of a treaty they'd made with the Russians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that something?
		You know, there have been, I'm sure you're aware, there have been many sightings over silos.
		And it's gone further than that, Cameron.
		They've actually gone into launch sequence.
unidentified		Yeah.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		And then when you take a look at some of the stuff now we know behind the scenes is, for example, the big one was the Maelstrom one, the 10 missiles that were shot down at Maelstrom Air Force Base in 1967.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		And we now know that Robert Salas, who was in the command module down below when this happened, is an experiencer.
		He's a lifetime abductee.
		And it's almost like the aliens had One of their own guys inside the thing.
		It was like their own spy.
		So you start looking at the intricacies of the UFO phenomena, and you realize it's much more complex than you originally think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, it's not an American phenomena only.
		The Russians had their own big deal with a launch sequence actually beginning.
		I don't know if you know about that.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, and I think that's what the aliens are just basically doing is they are sending signals.
		They are sending signals that maybe you don't know what's going on.
		I don't know what's going on.
		But the people in government, I'm absolutely sure when they shut down a launch site like that, or when they leave a dead cow a couple miles downrange from a nuclear power plant or a place where they're building nuclear weapons, I'm sure the message gets across and the government knows exactly what's going on.
		They know an awful lot more than you and I. And I think a lot of what we see in ufology is just basically signaling.
		It's almost like I even say with you and me, you had a close encounter, I had a close encounter, and I say to people, I say, why do UFOs have lights on them?
		We don't have lights on our planes, except for little navigation lights.
		We don't have lights.
		Why do UFOs have lights on them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly not the ones we want to hide, right?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they want you to see it.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		So if you see a UFO, you're part of the game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, helicopters are black for a reason, and stealth aircraft are black for a reason.
		They don't carry lights.
		So you're right.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
		And so when they abduct people, nobody sees anybody getting abducted.
		You don't see the ship.
		So when you see the ship, it's intended for you to see the ship.
		And I tell people, if you've had a UFO sighting, you're part of the game.
		You're part of what they're trying to do.
		And I think a majority of what they're trying to do is just send us signals.
		They're trying to make us think.
		They're not giving us the answer.
		They're making us think, what the heck's going on?
		And the more people think, the more they talk about it, and the more people talk about it, the more it becomes like the gay issue or the gay rights issue.
		Once you get to the point where everybody's talking about it, everybody's going to make the right decision as to what to do.
		All they're trying to do is get people talking about it to raise consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about your analogy, but you're right about one thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once you have seen something close up, either had an encounter, been abducted, or had a craft, in my case, 150 feet above me, your life is never the same.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, download.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		So I'm in this lecture.
		I'm not really paying attention.
		And as I said, for 37 years, I'd gathered material together and done documents and lectures and stuff like that.
		And suddenly it happened.
		And it happened instantaneously.
		Three figures, three different items popped into my head instantaneously at the same time.
		And they came with absolute certainty.
		People who describe download experiences will talk about this absolute certainty.
		You don't have to check this.
		You don't have to go research this.
		This is the answer.
		This is how it works.
		You're absolutely certain.
		And the other thing that comes with this great sort of excitement for two days, I just was vibrating for two days after this happened.
		And what came to me was three things that I gathered together, but I'd never put them together.
		I'd never figured out how they work together.
		So he's talking about consciousness.
		And in 2012, I couldn't have cared less about consciousness.
		I couldn't have spelled the word.
		I had no interest in it whatsoever.
		And suddenly, what happened was, as I said, I had chased the Canadian government in the early 1950s.
		There's a top-secret Canadian government document that I had quoted.
		Stanton Friedman has quoted.
		And we've talked about it endlessly.
		It's a legitimate top-secret Canadian government document from November of 1950 where the Canadians go to the Americans and they're asking the American officials, what's the deal of flying saucers?
		And they're told flying saucers are for real.
		It's the most highly classified subject in the United States.
		There's a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush who's trying to figure out what's going on and that the subject is of tremendous significance to the Americans.
		When this download, the first piece of the download came to me, it was the very next line in that document.
		And the very next line in the document said, and we were also told by American officials, that other things might be associated with the flying saucers, such as mental phenomena.
		And the Americans aren't doing very well because they've said if we're working on the problem, they're willing to exchange credentials and talk to us.
		And this is through classified channels.
		And suddenly I realized that this was very important because in 1950, there was nobody talking to aliens.
		The first contactees would not appear until a couple days after the detonation of the hydrogen bomb in November of 1952.
		The first abductees were not Betty and Barney Hill.
		That was in the 1960s.
		In 1950, November 1950, nobody was claiming to be talking to aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to have to ask you, slow down, slow down.
		Just slow down.
		I want you to back up a little bit.
		What you said was exceptional about the communication to the Canadian government officials.
		So I'm going to ask you who was told what you just said?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		The material came through the Canadian Embassy in Washington, D.C., through the military liaison whose name was Arnold Wright.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		He was the guy that went down through intelligence channels and talked to high-level officials in the Defense Department in the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so Arnold Wright told you this?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Arnold Wright told it to Wilbur Smith, who ran the Canadian government flying saucer program from 1950 to 1954.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Wilbur Smith put it in a top-secret document, which was part of the Department of Transport flying saucer investigation, which took place for the four years from 1950 to 1954.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of like our blue book.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
		And it was shut down in 1954.
		But this top-secret memo was, Stanton Friedman forced this out in 1978 when the Canadians released their documents.
		They released all their files.
		This top-secret document was found in those files.
		And the Canadian government does not deny that this is a legitimate top-secret document.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Wow.
		So in Canada, can you do what we do here and submit what is, in essence, a freedom of information request and get this?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		It's called an access to information here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you done so?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Oh, most of the stuff has been filed and stuff has been brought out.
		This is how it came out.
		These files were forced out.
		The defense documents were brought out.
		The research department documents are the sort of the scientific documents.
		the Canadians released their stuff back in the 1970s.
		And after that, we really don't know who in the Canadian government is involved or what's going on.
		But yes, all that stuff was filed early on.
		We had our access to information requests stuff going on long before the Americans had it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, let me stop you here.
		I would love to see those documents.
		Where are they now?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		It's around.
		It's on the internet.
		It's on my website.
		The top secret.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what is your website?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Presidentialufo.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Presidentialufo.com.
		That's not hard.
		So the document is there.
		Thank you.
		Now, before we lose it, I want to go back to Adam Ambrose and the two stories he told.
		And I would like to get your reaction to them.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		He's telling similar stories to what a lot of people, he referred to the aerial, a 1994 aerial sighting, where 62 school children in Rhodesia saw this UFO that had landed, and all these kids were getting communication from the aliens, and they were getting environmental messages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but this was here, not there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He referred to that incident.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		He referred to that one.
		That's famous.
		Now, of course, Adam's story is going to come down to whether he's got the witnesses.
		The Ariel One, they have quite a few of these witnesses, and one by the name of Emily Trim has now even come forward.
		I saw her in Brantford, Ontario, about a month ago.
		She's come forward with all the paintings.
		She suddenly was able to do all these paintings and is now the first of these young schoolchildren who has come forward.
		So if you have Adam on, you have to make sure you have another one of the schoolchildren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Adam has done a whole series of drawings from his memory, and I understand they're available.
		We'll get that when we do a show with him.
		But his story sounded pretty legit to me.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it has all the main factors.
		Like he talked about the Oz factor, where time and space seems to stop.
		This was described in the John Lennon sighting, where John Lennon has his sighting.
		May Pang, who was with him, talks about this effect where all the people in the apartments around looking off this penthouse where they were, nobody seemed to be home.
		Everybody seemed to have disappeared.
		The people on the balcony below her didn't come up.
		It was like time and space had stopped.
		So this Oz effect is quite common.
		What Adam is describing is commonly described by people going through walls.
		And we now sort of understand some of this stuff.
		Like the idea of going through walls is not a big mystery anymore.
		We now know, for example, in the science that for every piece of matter, there are 1 times 10 to the 50 second power pieces of space.
		That matter is all space.
		It's held together by electromagnetic fields.
		And so if you're an alien and you understand this, that everything is space, if you have a person who's all space and a wall who's all space, all you have to do is know how the electromagnetic fields work, and you can put somebody through a wall.
		I don't think this is a real big mystery about people going through walls anymore.
		And almost everybody that's abducted numerous times will describe the fact that they go through a window or through a wall or that the aliens come through walls.
		This is pretty common, what Adam is describing here.
		His big thing is, are there other witnesses to what he had seen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently so.
		There's a janitor, if he's still alive.
		There would be the other school children, if they want to talk about it.
		And if their memories had not been wiped of this incident, all of that, right?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's a major story.
		I mean, he said 50 to 70 kids.
		I mean, that's a major, major story.
		So it is major witnesses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, exactly.
		Was his story, and remember, he said he had been abducted since he was in the crib.
		I didn't pursue that, but I will with him.
		But obviously, all his life.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Almost all experiencers will describe this.
		We call them lifers.
		I mean, if you've been abducted, it's almost never when you're 20 years old that you get abducted one time.
		General pattern is that if a person describes an abduction, you go back.
		If you do the regressions, you'll find out it's been going on their entire life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Grant.
		Another question for you.
		Is it possible to know if there is a general thing that these creatures, these other beings, want from us?
		In other words, is there any common thread in abductions that you can talk about that would make us perhaps understand why they're occurring?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have the messages that they're giving us.
		You have the hybrid program, which is very common where people describe the hybrid babies, that their sperm or the eggs are being taken.
		That's very common, that that's going on.
		And then you have these messages.
		A lot of experiencers will talk about seeing the screen on board the ship, and they're showing these environmental devastation scenes where the world is being destroyed.
		And we're given the message about the fact that we were destroying the planet, that we're environmentally doing damage to the planet, and that we have to stop this.
		In the early years, the messages came across were the nuclear weapon messages.
		And the other message that is given is one of the more common ones is this oneness message, that we have to understand that everything is connected, everything is alive, and everything is one.
		Everything's connected.
		That is a big message that they put across to a number of the experiencers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw the world's climate expert, I believe it was Sunday on CNN, regarded as the world's chief climate expert, and he said that if we don't do anything in 50 years, it is now known that we will have a 10-foot rise of our oceans.
		Now, they can show a picture of New York City, Grant, and show what it would Look like with 10 more feet of water.
		And Grant, there is not much New York City left.
		And that applies to all the coastal cities of the world.
		So maybe they better get busy pretty quickly doing a little messaging about what's going on with the planet's weather.
		I'll tell you what.
		Hold on, Grant.
		We're going to break here.
		Can you imagine that?
		50 years, 10 feet, 10 feet of ocean rise.
		You know what that's going to look like?
		It's not going to look like cities.
		It's going to look like ocean.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is midnight.
		I've been drifting on the sea of heartbreak, trying to get myself a shore for so long.
		For so long.
		Listen to the strangest story.
		Wondering where it all went wrong for so long.
		For so long.
		But hold on, hold on, hold on to what you got.
		The clock strikes 12, and Midnight in the Desert is pounding packets your way on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, please direct your finger digits to dial 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALLART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't call yet, actually.
		Just rest and listen.
		We'll give you the cue to call.
		My guest is Grant Cameron.
		We're talking about abductions.
		Oh, one last thing.
		For a very minimal charge, we can have the screaming lady that you hear during these commercials come visit you at your house and wake you up whenever you request.
		Grant, you're back on.
		Yeah.
		All right.
		So there's so much to talk about in this whole thing, but you think motive is one of the things I want to know about so much, and you believe it has something to do with genetics.
		That's one item anyway.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure about genetic.
		I mean, there may be a genetic line that they're following, because usually if you are taken, your children will be taken.
		Your parents usually are involved.
		Or there may be a spiritual line as well.
		I mean, there may be, if you're talking one life, if you start talking reincarnation, the whole game changes.
		And the example I always show that's critical to this is if you can find one case, one abduction case that goes back before birth, the whole game changes.
		And the example I always show is the story of the Moody Blues, the famous band, the Moody Blues, who were clearly abducted in 1967.
		Their story is quite well known.
		And Mike Pinder, who's the lead for the Moody Blues and the lead guitarist, go to Colin Andrews after one of his crap circle lectures and say, we want to talk to you.
		We want to tell you a story.
		And they go out for dinner, and Colin says they're going back and forth between Pinder and the lead guitarist, back and forth and back and forth.
		They're telling this story that they, before they were born, they knew that they were going to be musicians.
		And they told this story about being on this craft and that there was these elder people and they were told they were going to put lyrics into songs that would raise consciousness and this whole thing.
		And this changes everything.
		If people can remember and a number of experiences, I can't remember what the exact percentage, but it's pretty high.
		It's like 20 or 30 percent of people, experiencers will talk about remembering before they were born.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, again, I'm going to slow you up.
		This is pretty important stuff.
		Are you saying that if you become a true believer in reincarnation, the Buddhists, of course, believe in reincarnation, that you are then likely to be a subject of visitation?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, you make a deal to come in here.
		The whole idea is abduction.
		You're saying if you say abduction, that these people are taken against their will.
		I would say, and Mary Rodwell, who's done over 2,000 regressions in Australia, would say that if you ask the person during the regression and you get them in deep hypnosis and you say at any point in the past, did you agree to be in this situation?
		They will say, yes, I agree to this.
		It's not an abduction.
		This was something, if you believe in reincarnation, Art, you came into this life to do something.
		Maybe you came in just to learn jealousy or greed or whatever, some sort of lesson.
		But if you are an experiencer, the question is, did you come in here?
		Did you volunteer to be an experiencer, to come in here to raise consciousness, to bring this alien message to the world?
		We came in here, if you believe in creation, we came in here to do something.
		And so what I say is when I see an experiencer, I see people who are very high-level spiritual beings who have chosen this mission to do what they're doing, that this is not some victim type thing.
		And if you take a look at the polls, Edgar Mitchell has a support group for experiencers.
		And in the poll that was done, they had 1,200 experiencers fill out this poll.
		In there, only 9% of experiencers say that they would turn it around.
		If they had the chance to not have this experience happen, there's only less than 10% say, yeah, I would not want this to happen.
		Most of them would say, yeah, I'd do this again.
		That experiencers, I'd say, are very, very important people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said you talked to Travis Walton, right?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You talked to Travis, right?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'll talk to Travis, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think he'd say if he was asked, do you want this to happen again?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I think he's changed.
		I think he would say he sees the benefits of this.
		He realized that something good was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		I mean, what he described to Grant, was kind of a horror, frankly.
		I mean, he was trapped in this web-like junk.
		Oh, God, I thought it was awful.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was the movie that put this stuff about.
		He talked about the fact he couldn't breathe.
		And when they did the movie, they changed it to this stuff over his face.
		They changed that whole thing.
		I think when you interview him, ask him that question.
		I will.
		Do you see any positive aspects to this?
		I would say that he sees that there are some positive aspects to this.
		To me, to me, it's very important that what these people are doing.
		When I did my first consciousness lecture in Phoenix, Arizona, I had a woman.
		I don't know if you've ever gone into the life-between life stuff of Dr. Michael Newton, who did 7,000 regressions of people and took them into the between lives.
		I had a woman who went and did one of these regressions after she heard my lecture.
		And in that regression, she was asked, did you volunteer to be an experiencer?
		She said, I didn't volunteer.
		I earned it.
		I worked hard to be in this position.
		I see these people as very high-level people.
		They're bringing a message to the world.
		They're doing something to me that's very valuable.
		But we've come to the world.
		If you believe me or condition, we've come to the world to do something.
		We've got some sort of lesson to do.
		And so I see that part.
		I don't see really much random.
		I don't think I randomly saw UFOs in the wrong place at the wrong time or the right place at the right time.
		That's why I say, if you see a UFO, you're part of the game.
		You're part of what this whole thing is all about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if I am.
		I do.
		In a way, when you think about it, it drove me, the experience drove me much harder to talk about all this kind of thing.
		So maybe you're right.
		I don't know.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you've had your thing.
		You've done a major mission in getting the word out and getting people talking about it.
		And I think that's all they're trying to do is they're trying to get people to talk about it.
		I firmly believe that if there are as many civilizations as we now sort of guess that there might be in the universe, like billions or trillions of civilizations that are running around, they may have done this a thousand times on a thousand different planets.
		They know exactly what they're going to do.
		Because if you take a look at the pattern, you will see that I've been in this a long time.
		You've been in this a long time.
		I know in 1975, what happened then doesn't happen now.
		We had landing traces in the 1970s where they'd land and they'd leave the pod marks and the burned grass.
		Doesn't happen anymore.
		In those days, there was people seeing aliens looking out windows of crafts.
		Doesn't happen anymore.
		The patterns have all changed.
		We had Foo Fighters during World War II.
		What happened to the Foo Fighters?
		Where did they go?
		After World War II, we had the green fireballs.
		What happened to the green fireballs?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, there have been recent Foo Fighter sightings since you brought it up.
		I'll dig that story out.
		Yeah.
		Again, I want to slow you down.
		Let me slow you down for just a second.
		Reincarnation, Grant, is almost a religious conviction.
		Would you say that is right?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know what you mean by that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's almost an article of faith.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you have the research done at the University of Virginia, 2,500 cases where you have kids who are like three, four years old.
		I would say that's scientific evidence.
		I wouldn't say that's any sort of religious faith.
		I mean, there's a lot of evidence for reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but a lot of people believe in reincarnation as an article of faith, is what I'm saying.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, everybody believes in something.
		And belief doesn't change reality.
		Whatever people believe.
		I mean, everybody has a set belief.
		And that's critical to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you're almost saying nonsense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's science fact, not faith.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		It has a lot of evidence for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty big stretch to say that, but it could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask, has your work in this field affected your own religion or your own faith or your own thinking?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		As I said, it absolutely turned my whole life around.
		I mean, it was completely 180 degrees, and then after my download experience, another 180 degrees.
		I was just, it affected my whole life.
		My life has never been the same since I saw my first UFO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, if you had 280 degree shifts, you're right back where you began, right back where you started.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I started before I got into UFOs.
		I was interested in Yedger Casey, and I was interested in near-death studies.
		I had done a study at a hospital where I'd gone to study dying cancer patients and stuff like that, and asked all these questions about near-death work.
		I've come right back to where I started back in the 1970s.
		I had no interest in UFOs, none whatsoever.
		The only reason I went out to see this UFO thing was because the whole town was seeing it.
		It was a viral story in the city where I lived.
		And I went out believing I wouldn't see anything.
		And when I saw it, I just literally could not believe what I had seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I totally get that.
		Honest, I do, Grant.
		What I want you to do is hold tight.
		We're going to do an early break.
		It gives us a little more time on the other side.
		A religious, like an article of faith.
		It is that, right?
		How about the rest of you, those of you who have seen something really close up?
		How's that affected your life?
		This is Midnight.
unidentified		Midnight.
		Riders of the storm Riders of the Star.
		Into the dog before.
		Into this world we go.
		Like a dog without a bone.
		Into the world.
		Riders on the Storm
		Want to take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, dial 1-952-CALL ART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, Grant Cameron is my guest.
		And Grant, several have sent wormhole messages saying, Art, very interesting, but, well, try to slow him down a little bit.
		The information is coming too fast.
		Can you do that?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You probably had more coffee than I have, but I drink a lot.
		I mean, you're just rattling it out, and we've got time.
		Don't worry.
		It'll all get out.
		So I'm particularly interested in the reincarnation angle.
		It would seem to me, if that's true, Buddhists who really believe in reincarnation would have a disproportionate number of abductions or contacts.
		Yes?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		No, I don't.
		You'd have to have to look at the stats.
		The only stats we really have is the poll that was done.
		The poll is being done by the Edgar Mitchell organization.
		Let me give you a question.
		Question 185.
		413 people replying.
		The question is, do you believe that there is a connection between ETs and reincarnation?
		These are the experiencers.
		These are the people that are involved.
		79%, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, they're probably on a site that kind of leans that way anyway, right?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		A site?
		Well, no, these are people that are being questioned.
		What's happened is they've gone to the experiencers to find out the common elements in the experiencers.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I'm saying is these are experiencers, so you would expect it to be skewed in that direction.
		For example, if somebody were to ask me a question, I've had a close encounter.
		And I'm, heck yeah, I'm going to answer yes.
		Yeah, I think so.
		That's fair.
		All right.
		So if you would give me this thing that I'm hearing about with you, about Vice President Dick Cheney.
		Incidentally, they just found out where he was hiding.
		There's something to do with Cheney and UFOs.
		What's up?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had the opportunity to talk to Dick Cheney.
		I had been interested in who had the answer to what I had seen in 1975.
		I had a sighting.
		I wrote a manuscript.
		The local publisher where I am said, Mr. Cameron, you may believe in this kind of stuff.
		Count me among the unbelievers.
		I was no longer interested in sightings, couldn't care less.
		All I was interested in is who knew what I had seen.
		So I went up the chain of command.
		I went to the Canadian government.
		Then I went to the former president of Penn State University, Dr. Eric Walker, who indicated he knew what was going on.
		Then I went up to the president.
		I figured, well, the president must know what's going on.
		And it was at that point when I got the opportunity to talk on a radio talk show, ask a question of former Vice President Dick Cheney.
		What had happened was Bush was running for president with Cheney.
		He had come up against a guy by the name of Charles Huffer who had a tape recorder going and said, Mr. Bush, if you become president, are you going to release the UFO information?
		Bush said, yes, I will.
		Cheney was standing right beside him and he said, this is Cheney.
		He's a very smart guy.
		He was Secretary of Defense.
		It'll be the first thing he does when he gets to the White House.
		So when he got to the White House in April of 2001, he was on a radio talk show, the Diana Ream show in Washington, D.C. I got on the air and I asked him the question, which I say you have to ask any four-star general, vice president or president.
		You don't want to ask him, have you seen a UFO?
		Who cares?
		You don't want to know what you think about UFOs.
		Who cares?
		The only question you want to ask them is the briefing question.
		At any point, did anybody walk in and brief you?
		The briefing is the truth.
		Did anybody walk in your office, swear you to secrecy, and tell you what's going on?
		So I said to him, Mr. Cheney, in all your jobs in government, and Cheney had been the chief of staff for President Gerald Ford.
		He had been Secretary of Defense under Bush Sr.
		And when I talked to him, he was the vice president.
		He was in the White House when he answered the question.
		I said, in any of your jobs in government, have you ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs?
		If so, when was it and what were you told?
		And Cheney hesitated and he said, if I had been briefed on that subject, it would probably be classified and I wouldn't be talking about it.
		And that's what it's all about.
		It's classified.
		They aren't going to talk about it.
		It's like nuclear weapon secrets.
		They're not going to talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they made a campaign promise.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Bush made the campaign promise, but it was Cheney that I asked the question.
		And Cheney said exactly what the situation is.
		It's classified.
		He's not going to talk about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't suppose you recorded that, did you?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Sure, it's on the Diana Reem website.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		We have it, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, I would love to hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would love to hear it.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		In fact, you interviewed me when we were talking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We could have.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Too bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you didn't get an opportunity to do a follow-up, did you?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, because they cut me off.
		I didn't even hear the answer to the question.
		They cut me off immediately.
		And then what happened was Diana Ream, who's running the show, said, Mr. Cheney, have you had any meetings on UFOs since you got in the White House?
		And at that point, he sort of caught his ground and he said, no, we've had no UFO meetings since I got to the White House.
		And I don't think he ever went on a radio talk show after that.
		I mean, because the next five questions after my question about the UFOs were all on Halliburton, how he was ripping people off with Halliburton.
		And he was furious by the end of that show.
		So, yeah, I mean, that's what it comes down to is it's classified.
		The metal is classified.
		How they get here is classified.
		And the consciousness thing, which is the key element that in 1947, as I said, the Canadian government were told by high-level American officials in 1950, before anybody talked to an alien, that mental phenomena was involved.
		How did the American officials know that mental phenomena was involved?
		Because in 1947, they recovered a craft in Roswell, New Mexico, and one of the aliens was alive.
		And when they went to recover the craft, the alien was talking in their heads.
		And that's the most highly classified part to me is if you can figure out how to talk in someone's head, you can go to Putin, you can go to anybody and make them think they're talking to God.
		This is tremendous technology, this whole consciousness thing, the fact that aliens are telepathic and that they can put messages and control people's minds.
		This is highly important stuff.
		That's why it's so highly classified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they can actually do that, why don't they do it to achieve their goals, which if you listen to abduction stories, would seem to be, A, to stop us from blowing ourselves to smithereens, and B, to do something about the state of the planet right now.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the Canadian government, the guy that ran the Canadian government program, his name was Wilbert Smith.
		He was a contactee.
		Most people don't know that.
		He was a contactee.
		He was in contact with an alien by the name of AFA, and he is the guy that ran the Canadian government flying saucer program.
		What he said the aliens had told him, and I've heard this from other sources as well, is that the only time they will ever step in, there's this non-intervention thing, the only time they will ever step in is if there is a nuclear exchange.
		And this is what Wilbert Smith had been told by his alien contact.
		And what he was told was if there's a nuclear exchange, they would step in.
		Otherwise, they are going to allow the human race to stew in their own juices.
		You cannot do your children's homework.
		You have to allow people to learn their own lessons.
		And if we happen to wipe ourselves out, so be it.
		If reincarnation is a fact, we go someplace else and learn our lessons all over.
		They are here not to save us.
		They are not, this is not American military foreign policy where we're going to go in to a foreign third world country, bring them freedom, democracy, Jesus, and McDonald's.
		They're here, I think, only to save the planet.
		We are, as David Bohm, the famous physicist, said, we are the locusts.
		We are like a swarm of locusts that has descended upon the earth.
		And they are basically here to try to stop us from, or to educate us to stop what we're doing to the planet.
		I don't think they're really here to save us.
		They're here to save the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Grant, dead is dead.
		And, you know, if we destroy the planet, make it unlivable for human beings, we might as well go ahead and have the nuclear exchange.
		So my question to you is, if it came to that, if somebody, Putin maybe, he's pretty nutty, if he pressed the button, it's your view they would step in and what?
		Not allow these things to launch, take them out during the launch phase or what?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Shut them down just like they did in Maelstrom.
		Shut the whole thing down or as they did in Russia, actually start the clock and let them run down and scare the living daylights of everybody.
		This is the whole deal.
		Wilbert Smith said that he had been told that they could stop a nuclear exchange and if we didn't believe it, they could take the moon in front of the entire human race, split it in half, and put it back together again to prove that they could stop a nuclear exchange.
		But that is the only time they will step in is if there's a nuclear exchange.
		Otherwise, it's hands-off.
		We have to learn our own lessons.
		And that's where this whole thing with experiencers, if you have multiple lives, that these people are volunteering to come in so that you don't have this non-intervention thing.
		These people are coming in to help.
		They're part of this process to raise the consciousness from the ground up.
		You can't indirectly, to me, that's American foreign policy that we're going to go in and tell people what to do and stuff.
		Because it doesn't work.
		We know it doesn't work in Iraq.
		We know it doesn't work in Pakistan and all these places.
		That eventually you end up where you're in bunkers and the only time you come out is when you're an armored personnel character carriers.
		The aliens cannot take over.
		They cannot come in here and directly influence us because we would not allow it.
		You're not going to allow someone else to come in and take over your world or your country.
		So they're doing it, coming in through the back door.
		They may have tried to come to the government, which I think they did on a number of occasions.
		But after that, they're coming in through people who have volunteered to help them on this mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
		If a saucer came down, pick your place, White House lawn, I maintain that when the ramp came down and the little guy got about halfway down the ramp, he'd be filled with so much lead, Grant, that they'd have a hard time carrying him away.
		In other words, we are a very, very warrior-like nation.
		There's no getting around it.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Plus, nobody wants somebody else to come into their country.
		I mean, that's why we have so much trouble in the Middle East is we're in there.
		And I mean, if you were someone and your neighbor, your parents got killed, or your sister, you'd be angry.
		And you'd want these people out of your country.
		This is the idea is that you don't want people in here.
		And the other problem that we have that I say that the government really doesn't want any part of this is the fact that I just wrote a book called Alien bedtime stories.
		And one of the stories I talk about, the articles I wrote, is Are the Aliens Commies?
		And if you take a look in the early 1950s, when you had a Damsky Williamson, the FBI was following these guys around because the message that the aliens are bringing is not a capitalist message.
		It is a message of oneness.
		It is a message that the one is more important than the individual and that we have to stop this growth, this capitalist growth.
		This would not be very well received in America.
		The message that the aliens are going to be able to bring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that really is their message, they do sound like commies.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		They're talking about the Gaia, the world is more important than some rich guy who wants to build a nuclear power plant in the middle of San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, if all that's true, then double the amount of lead I said the little guy would get.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, exactly.
		People think that we make it public and everybody's going to be happy and we're going to be able to drive big cars again.
		That's not what's going to happen.
		There's a lot of things that aren't going to go well if this does get released.
		I mean, Trump hates the Mexicans.
		I mean, can you imagine how he's going to hate the aliens?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, that's not right.
		Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
		Not fair.
		I'm not on Trump's side, but he's never said he hates Mexicans.
		He hates our immigration policy.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it's this us versus them, that we are, that it's the outsiders that are causing sort of the trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		It used to be the Vietnamese, and then it was the Chinese, and then it was the Russians, and it's this idea.
		The message that the aliens are bringing is a oneness message.
		And it's the message that we are all one, that we're all leaves on the same tree.
		Not the idea that the message that is being promoted in communism is this survival of the fittest.
		Rape, pillage, and steal whatever you can.
		Whoever's got the most toys wins.
		It's this growth thing.
		And David Bohm, this physicist, great physicist, who was not a UFO guy, basically said he didn't think we were going to make it.
		Because basically what you have is a model where you need growth all the time.
		And the growth keeps going, keeps going.
		And now you've got China starting to have this high growth and India.
		And eventually, David Bohm says we're going to run out of resources whether we destroy the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, young, I'm not an optimist.
		I don't like the way things are going.
		Hold tight, Grant.
		We're at a break point.
		You can relax for a bit.
		Take five, as they say.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		Sailin'away on the crest of a wave, it's like magic.
		Oh, rollin'and ridein'and slipin'and slidein', it's magic.
		And you, and you see it's like...
		For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Canadians have created a giant wall that sucks carbon dioxide straight out of the air.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Created by the Canadian company Carbon Engineering, this wall could be built to draw carbon dioxide straight out of the air and convert it into fuel.
unidentified		We're capturing CO2 with it right now.
		And by the time we get to the outlet here, where these fans pull the air through the contactor, over 80% of the CO2 has been removed.
		We're trapping over 100 kilos of CO2 here every day, and that CO2 gets absorbed into our solution and forms a type of carbonate salt.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Air flows through a row of massive fans that are connected to a carbon dioxide-rich solution.
		This then absorbs carbon compounds out of the air.
		This solution is purified with the carbon dioxide within it extracted and then purified again for reuse.
		The research and engineering firm hope to build such walls where regrowth of trees simply isn't possible.
		They did it in the 60s and they're still doing it.
		A strange gray UFO has caused something of a stir in the conspiracy community after NASA caught the object on its ISS live feed camera and then promptly cut the live feed as soon as it appeared.
		The small gray object, as seen coming up over the horizon and then disappearing just moments later as NASA cuts the feed and switches to another of the cameras, and will no doubt fuel conspiracy theorists' belief that NASA is deliberately hiding footage of potential UFOs.
		One of the simplest theories to this conundrum is that it's an artifact on the lens, or indeed the moon.
		The YouTuber responsible for the video Street Cap One doesn't hold with that either, posting a second video that he says proves that it couldn't be the moon.
		The biggest mystery, however, is why NASA didn't just use duct tape to cover it up.
		That's what they did before, after all.
		Right?
		I'm Leo Ashcraft, and this is Dark Matter News.
		A former state trooper from Washington said on Wednesday that he is currently in contact with several Bigfoot creatures and that he feeds them food regularly.
		The man who provided a name but chose to remain anonymous said that the encounters had been happening since 2009 in a remote area in the North Cascades.
		He said sometimes it's five to ten minutes, other times they stay for hours.
		He says he leaves them apples, carrots, beef jerky, cookies, and candy bars.
		The man says he was looking for an old mine in the mountains the first time he came across the alleged beings in 2009.
		After leaving the food out there for him, he says they seem to have started following him and getting closer.
		He says he's been as close as 20 feet to some of them.
		He reports that he was so close to them that he was able to catch some of their language on two different occasions.
		He said it sounded like Native American and an Asian mix.
		The creatures reportedly stand between six and seven feet tall and probably weigh in at about 500 pounds, females being a little lighter.
		He describes them as having a human face, some with dark hair, others red or brown, probably about three to four inches long, adding that the females had small breasts.
		He claims he's not the only one to have seen the creatures in the area.
		Numerous people have also purportedly seen them while accompanying the man.
		The former state trooper says the creatures have never presented a threat to him and that he leaves them alone and he's not interested in hunting them or gathering physical evidence.
		Florida resident John Byrd last year claimed to feed Bigfoot potatoes and plantains on a regular basis.
		In the spring of 1982, A soldier training at Fort Leonard Wood Army Base in Missouri claimed to have spotted a seven-foot-tall creature with brown hair that resembles the former state troopers' alleged sighting.
		Portions on the United States side of the range are part of the North Cascades National Park.
		Earlier this week, there were reports revealing the intentions of the U.S. Army to annex part of the region as a helicopter training area, drawing criticism from the Forest Service employees for environmental ethics.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft.
		This has been Dark Matter News.
unidentified		It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
		I'm ready for the times to get better I'm ready for the times to get better
		I've got to tell you, I've been around my brain, hoping to find a way out.
		I've had enough of this and then you rain.
		Changes are coming, no doubt.
		It's been a long time with no survival.
		And I'm ready for the time.
		In the darkest time, between dusk and dawn, from the high desert, it's Art Bell's midnight in the desert.
		Now, here's Art Bell.
		Hi, I'm Asia Bell, and it's very late, so I'm sleepy now.
		But you're awake, so call my daddy because he's awake, too.
		The number is 1952-225-5278.
		That's 1952.
		Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.
		Grant Cameron is my guest.
		And I've got to wonder if they came down, landed, and somehow, in a worldwide way, dispensed their message, the alien message of we're all one.
		You know, the sort of communistic message.
		How would Fox cover that?
		You've got to wonder.
		Well, okay, Grant.
		Welcome back.
		This really is fascinating stuff.
		Absolutely fascinating.
		There are also experiencers, I understand, who report the very same sort of thing having been near death.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a staggering figure.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		35% of all people who claim to be experiencers who've had the abduction experience or encounter with aliens are reporting at the same time that they've had a near-death experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And much the same message dispensed?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm really not sure what the message they got in the near-death experience.
		But it is the same sort of oneness type thing where the weird thing that I find about it is there was actually a panel that's been set up to figure out how can you possibly have these two things together.
		And that's where this idea comes from about the fact that it may be chosen, that you, when you came into this life, you chose to be an experiencer and you also chose to have a near-death experience because you know that there are people who can predict the future.
		So people can predict the future.
		It would indicate that the future is somewhat set, that it's not like random events, which is what we're sort of taught, that everything's random and it's meaningless.
		But if you have, if I can predict that you're going to have a car accident tomorrow and you have a near-death experience, well, then it wasn't a random event.
		So it may be that near-death experiences and abduction experiences are not random events, that a person comes into this life and chooses to have both.
		And that's why you have this very high percentage, which puzzles a lot of people in the UFO community, how you can have so many people that have these two apparently random events happening that are so bizarre.
		And I just say, to me, it makes sense that they're not random.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many abductees do you think there are in totality?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		The Roper poll that was financed by Bob Bigelow in 1991 came up with conservatively in the United States of America 2%, which on 320 million people would be 6.4 million experiencers.
		And that's conservative.
		I think most people in the field consider that to be a conservative estimate of experiencers.
		And the weird thing about that is that 43% of those experiencers are reporting downloads.
		That's 2.7 million people that experiencers who are reporting, getting mathematical, technical, or scientific material in their heads that they did not learn in school or through any other means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's a good question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob Bigelow is a friend of mine.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know him very well.
		I've been inside some of his what are going to be spacecraft.
		Now, he's a real serious guy, Brad.
		Real serious guy.
		And he was investigating this kind of thing you're talking about right now.
		He conducted a number of very important polls, one of which you just mentioned.
		And then suddenly, Bob Bigelow stopped doing that kind of research and began using his considerable wealth to get into space.
		He's going to build space hotels.
		He's doing all kinds of really serious stuff.
		What do you think caused him, Grant, if you were to guess, probably just have to guess unless you've talked to him, what made him stop investigating all of that and move towards space?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know.
		I don't know that he's really done that.
		I know he put a lot of money into consciousness.
		He had the chair for consciousness studies at UNLV.
		He put millions of dollars into that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He did a long period of time.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		He also got the UFO interest because he had his, I think his parents had this UFO encounter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know that once you get the bug, you yeah, but again, Grant, I'm telling you, he has changed.
		He has dropped.
		It's like he came to some conclusion, Grant, and then he switched.
		Now, I'd love to have Bob, and I would love to get Bob to ask him that question.
		But it's a big turn, I'm telling you.
		He's in aerospace now.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		Well, yeah, I really don't know.
		I mean, I know he was in, when he still had NIDS, I know he was into the aerospace thing.
		I talked to his chief physicist when I was there.
		And so I really don't know why the change.
		I just know he was extremely interested in consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		And he's extremely, he understands how this all fits together, that it's not just a physical phenomenon, that this is much more complex.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		It's almost like Jacques Valley said, I would be very surprised if this turned out to be just extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm thinking that he did so much investigation that he came to some conclusions.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, as a result of that, changed his focus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'll ask him.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll ask him.
		So you're saying there are many, many, many abductees.
		And most of them, not all, but most of them are abducted again and again and again all their life.
		Is that true?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		That would appear to be the pattern, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Starts when they're infants?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Very young, before they've set their mind as to how the world works.
		That's why I think they take them very young.
		Because once you're 20 years old, your worldview is set, and the aliens would need giant rubber boots and a big, giant shovel to try to get an idea down in through all the garbage to impress something.
		So they take the kids very, very young.
		The same as we have this phenomenon that takes place with musicians being extremely interested in UFOs.
		A lot of them are experiencers.
		And I say, my guess is that the reason that the aliens are so interested in musicians is they influence children between the ages, say, say, 10 and 25 years old when they're looking for new ideas.
		The idea is to get people before they've set their worldview if you want to get an idea across to change consciousness for the next generation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant, do you know David Jacobs?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know of him.
		I've never talked to him.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		While you are telling us that they're giving us a message of oneness, conciliation, repair of the planet, these very important things, there are people like Jacobs who believe that these creatures may be fooling us, that they're presenting the front that you have described, but in fact, they're not friendly at all, and they represent a very great danger potentially to us.
		And you say what to that?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I say that's General Colin Powell standing up at the UN and trying to convince us that the Iraqis had weapons of mass destruction.
		It's the us versus them.
		It's this idea that the Chinese were our enemies.
		The blacks were the problem, and the Jews were the problems, and the Russians were the problem, and now it's the aliens.
		It's another enemy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty harsh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're essentially saying great lie.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		It's the idea that separation.
		You either believe in oneness, or you believe in the fact that everybody's separate, that everybody's individual.
		And when you get the individual idea, then if you take the aliens, what evidence is there that the aliens are going to take over the planet?
		They're going to do everything.
		People will say, okay, they're here to take the planet.
		And I say, if you actually take a look, there's very physical, very little physical about them.
		They don't wear clothes.
		People say they're here to get our gold.
		They don't wear jewelry.
		They don't really have any furniture.
		They don't seem to have any interest in anything physical at all.
		They seem to be here doing this hybrid thing.
		And people can say, okay, eventually they're going to take over the world and they're going to eat us or they're going to do whatever.
		And I say, well, if you take a look at the download stuff, if you take a look at 43% of people are being downloaded or you have 11% of people that report that they're being allowed to fly the flying saucer, if they're going to take us over and eat us or whatever they're going to do, why don't they do it?
		And why are they teaching people to fly the ship?
		Why are they downloading mathematical and technical material into people's heads if they're just going to take us over?
		There seems to be something else going on behind this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, don't forget to serve man.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		To serve man?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't remember to serve man?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know what you're talking about.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
		Well, I'll explain it.
		There was a, I believe it was a Twilight Zone episode in which the aliens came down and they made a great speech and a great deal out of how they were going to serve man.
		And then at the very end, Grant, it turned out that to serve man was actually a cookbook.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You're going to be served up on a McDonald's on the far side of the moon, a human McNuggets.
		Yeah.
		If it happens, I'll believe it.
		I don't see any indication that there is this evil empire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm not saying there is, Grant.
		I'm just saying that you seem to believe wholeheartedly that they are well-intentioned, trying to help us, trying to prevent nuclear warfare, trying to help us with the planet, whatever.
		And I hope, Grant, I hope it's true.
		But I'm just saying, don't you have a little bit of you that says, but, well, who was it?
		Ronald Reagan said something about trust, but verify.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the idea.
		This is this separation thing, that we have enemies, that everybody, that we are the good guys.
		We're always the good guys.
		And there's all these bad guys, and everybody's out to get us.
		And it may be true, but what I'm saying is that I think people have to start explaining why are people getting downloads?
		What is going on?
		Why are they downloading people with information?
		Why are they allowing people to fly ships?
		When I did my first consciousness lecture, within one year, I had 24 people come to me that told me this thing, that they were flying the ship, and most of them were women.
		And I say, if you believe in the evil alien thing, well, then you have to look at the fact that if you're a woman in Saudi Arabia, you cannot drive a car.
		It's illegal for you to drive a car.
		But if you're a Saudi Arabian woman and you get abducted by the aliens, they'll not let you drive the car, they'll let you fly the flying saucer, no insurance, no license, nothing.
		So why are they allowing people?
		Why is there something going on behind the scenes that's being ignored?
		Now, maybe Jacobs is right.
		Maybe eventually they're going to pop up and we're going to get served for lunch or they're going to be able to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jacobs didn't really say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He just thinks that there's a possibility they could be not our friends.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		He calls them the threat.
		He wrote the book, The Threat.
		Same as Bud Hopkins talked about the intruders.
		That they're intruders.
		They're really not evil, but they're just intruding in our lives, and they should just go away and leave us alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, listen, I've got a wormhole message here from Doug in Michigan who wants to ask you this.
		All right, he says, Grant, one of the big things that aliens always seem to show abductees is how we are destroying our planet.
		That would indicate to me the aliens are very likely us from the future.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Possible.
		I mean, if you take a look at quantum physics, there is no time in space.
		I mean, it's all a deck of cards on top of each other.
		I mean, so time and space, you know, we're getting into hypotheticals that are hard to really answer.
		I mean, it could be.
		That was the message from Reynolds from Forrest, that Jim Penniston got through his touching the craft, the fact that this was future coming back.
		I mean, it's highly possible, but my guess would be that there really is no time and space.
		That if you talk to Julia Asante, from Columbia, who's done some work on this, she basically says that you can basically talk with your future lives and past lives and have a meeting.
		And so this idea of time and space, a lot of this is illusion.
		Physical world is illusion.
		Time and space are illusion.
		We believe a lot of stuff that really, the aliens are showing us this really isn't true.
		When you start looking at what they're doing, we start realizing that we've sort of got some beliefs that maybe need changing.
		And that's why I'm just saying you've got to start looking at what the experiences are saying.
		They're telling us some important stuff about what's going on, that you can go through walls, that telepathy is true, that people are getting downloads, they're getting information, they're getting inventions and stuff like that.
		I think we've got to start looking at this kind of stuff.
		And maybe it's true that there is some sort of threat, but I think it's more profitable to look at what the experiences are actually saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, I was just asking if you had a sliver of you that had doubts, if there was a little bit of you that...
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		The more I look at it, the less I believe in the evil alien.
		I was right with you maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
		If you ask the experiencers and you say how many believe they're evil, only 10% of experiencers believe that they're evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there are many who describe many.
		In other words, that there are many different alien species here.
		Yes.
		Are they all here to help?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		There's got to be thousands of different aliens here.
		All I know is the main ones, like the grays and the main where you get the abduction phenomena.
		You may have a lot of aliens that are here who aren't interacting.
		The only ones that we can really judge are the ones that are interacting with us, which would be the grays and the reptilians and the humanoid types.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are many types, though, and it's hard to know if they're all our friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's even hard to know whether they're warring with each other or not.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Okay, again, this is, to me, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
		If you're telepathic and you can predict the future, and I'm telepathic and I can predict the future, how can you possibly have a war between you and me?
		If I can tell what you're going to do and you can tell what I'm going to do, how can you have a war?
		I know who's going to win the war.
		I know I'm going to die.
		Why would I start the war?
		The idea of telepathic beings, that's the whole idea about telepathy, is that if a politician stands up, you know when he's lying.
		It's very hard to start war if you're telepathic.
		This doesn't make any sense to me that telepathic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, usually with politicians, if they're standing, they're lying.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, telepathy is a very important thing.
		If you're telepathic, I believe you have to understand that everything's connected.
		And that's the whole thing.
		That's the Ronald Reagan thing, how the world would unite if we were facing a threat from an alien nation.
		This whole idea that everything is connected.
		Telepathy means we're connected, that we all are a part of a hologram.
		It's a big, huge hologram, and that if I want to read your mind, everything is in me, is in you.
		I just go into me and get your information from the hologram.
		And so everything is that if you're telepathic, in fact, Ben Rich, part of my download was a statement made by Ben Rich when Jan Hartson, the international director of Mufon, asks him.
		He said, Ben, he had a very close encounter at nine years old.
		He became fascinated with UFOs, wanted to be an electrical engineer, wanted to know about propulsion.
		So he asked Ben Rich, who ran Lockheed Skunkworks, SR-71, U-2, the drones, all that kind of stuff.
		He said to Ben, Ben, I need to know how did they get here?
		How does it work?
		And Ben turned around and he said, let me ask you a question.
		What do you know about ESP?
		And Jan Hartson said, I didn't expect a question.
		So he said, I replied, it means everything in time and space is connected.
		And Ben Rich said, that's how it works.
		Walked out of the building, got in his car, and drove away.
		And you get this over and over again: this whole thing about the connectedness, that they may actually, like entangle space, they may actually be able to just move through time and space like an entangled particle.
		They're in one part of the universe, and then they can move to the other part instantaneously if everything's connected.
		If they're just moving through a hologram, that's where I say that you've got to start looking at what the experiences are saying and look at this from a different perspective from quantum physics and this kind of stuff.
		And you start to understand that they just understand better how the universe works, that we're making a lot of false assumptions about how things work.
		And the aliens are not magic.
		They just understand a few things that we don't know.
		And one of the key ones is this whole idea, the difference between us and an alien, the main difference is we are not telepathic, and they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I guess very quickly, because we're about out of time here for the hour, and I want to get to calls next hour.
		Are you ready for calls, by the way?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that when Ronald Reagan said what he said, he was saying that to, in effect, prepare us?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I would just be guessing.
		I can tell you that Ronald Reagan had two UFO sightings.
		He had one where he chased it in the plane.
		He had the other one where he was coming from Sacramento down to a cocktail party in Los Angeles.
		Steve Allen, the comedian, was there.
		So was Lucio Ball.
		And Lucio Ball told Shirley McClain that he had interacted with an alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		All right, hold tight.
		Hold tight.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Relax.
		Take a deep breath.
		We'll take calls when we get back.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		You know me.
		I'm in you.
		You're in me.
		I'm in you.
		To reach midnight in the desert via Skype worldwide, if on a computer, please be sure to use a headphone mic and call MITD51.
		That's M-I-T-D-51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me sort of run through the numbers for all of you so that if you have a question for Grant Cameron, and he certainly knows a lot about abduction, doesn't he?
		You can ask it.
		The public number for all of you is area code 952-225-5278.
		952-225-5278, or call art, if you will.
		And of course, for Skype, if you're in North America, the U.S. and Canada, it's M-I-T-D-51.
		M-I-T-D-5-1.
		Internationally, outside of North America, it is MITD 55.
		M-I-T-D 5-5.
		Ring that number, and you're ringing me.
		If I don't answer right away, keep ringing.
		And that applies to the regular phone number as well.
		So, Grant, if I can bring you back and say, do you think you can compact your answers a little bit so we can get through some calls?
		Sure.
		Okay, good.
		Let's give it a try.
		Let's go, I don't know, let's go to Michigan.
		Hi there.
unidentified		Hey there.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing fine, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Canton, Michigan.
		Okay.
		I just have a question for you, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For me?
unidentified		Oh, you've got to have something for my guest.
unidentified		I was just a big fan of your show, and I used to listen to it on satellite, and I was wondering if there was ever a chance that you're going to go back to satellite radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they'd probably hate me.
		I'm being honest with you.
		Yeah, they'd probably hit my guts.
		You know, you never know.
		It ought to be up there, right?
		They ought to be carrying it, but, you know, they hate me.
unidentified		It took me a while to find you on Team Radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now you've got that answer.
		So anything for Grant Cameron?
		I mean, aliens taking people.
		That's pretty serious.
unidentified		That is very intriguing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Intriguing.
unidentified		It's intriguing to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right, intriguing it is.
		I thank you for the call, and I guess you have nothing.
		So let's go to Skype.
		Let's go over to Skype and say, hi there.
		You're on the air.
		Damon, I believe it is.
		Hello, Damon.
		Aw, Damon went away.
		Too bad.
		Try again, Damon.
		You might get through.
		Who knows?
		Let's go off to Lawton, Oklahoma.
		You're on midnight.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, sorry about earlier.
unidentified		I kind of froze up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon?
unidentified		And I kind of froze up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a question?
unidentified		Has your guest ever been abducted by chubacabras?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think chubacabras abduct that I'm aware of.
		I've never heard a story of one abducting anyway.
		But actually, let me translate that a little bit.
		Have you ever been abducted, Grant?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I've done the tests for the implants, that sort of stuff.
		It comes up negative.
		I had one experience in April of 1976 where I had an experience where the Oz effect type thing took place where absolute riveting fear lasted for about five minutes.
		There was a slight movement in the craft right above the car as if they were cutting it, like almost like cutting a film.
		At that point, something may have happened, but I have no messages, no abduction-type phenomena that people report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, yes, but if you got a test, you said you had a test, you must have, you know, you must have thought that something occurred to you, and that's why you got the test.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to check whether I was in that category, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's try.
		I think it's Andy on Skype.
		Andy, hello?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed.
		Hello.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yes.
		I wanted to ask your guest a question.
		I've always wanted to find some kind of correlation between the alien phenomena and our traditional religions and superstitions as far as demons and ghosts and things like that go.
		How do you relate those two concepts?
		How does the alien thing reconcile with the notion of other notions of supernatural entities?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good question, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I give a lecture, a consciousness lecture, which says that everything's together.
		You have a conscious mind and you have consciousness itself, which the aliens are just outside the conscious mind.
		They live in the dream world.
		They live in the same world as spirits, all this sort of stuff.
		And I think it's all connected.
		Once you cut off the conscious mind, whether it's through meditation or different methods that we can do, you can go into this other type of world where all these higher frequency beings and spirits and stuff exist.
		I believe it's all connected.
		It's all the same thing.
		It's just outside the conscious left ego mind that we basically operate in the human world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you in essence saying that, for example, Christianity, the religion itself, is somehow connected with and one with this phenomenon of depth?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Usually the people who start the religions or who write this stuff get some sort of inspiration.
		So I have my download experience, and a lot of people, I've actually written a manuscript where I talk about different types of inspirations that people get, songs that are given all the Nobel Prizes that came in dreams and stuff like that.
		That there is this kind of inspiration thing.
		So people of various religions are going to get inspirations.
		Say, you may get a guy who in the early years, like Terrence McKinna talks about, magic mushrooms, where the guy takes magic mushrooms and suddenly gets an enlightenment experience where he leaves his conscious mind and suddenly sees all this stuff and they say, well, you're the smart guy.
		We'll make you the shaman.
		And so I think that's where a lot of religious ideas come from, is where people are able to break the filter, the conscious mind filter, and move into this sort of other world and pick up material from the spirit world or from wherever.
		And this is where the religious ideas come from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Andy, I think the answer was yes.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care.
		Let's go to, oh, I don't know, Colorado Springs on the phone.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		This is Kevin in Colorado Springs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Kevin.
unidentified		I'd like to mention, first of all, that you've heard of the phenomenon where someone has used an e-craft and has that experience, and then later they find out that they've been abducted.
		I wonder, in some ways, if that hasn't happened to me, but...
		Because I have had an experience, but there is nothing past that experience at a young age that makes me think it's happened again.
		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've raised a really good question.
		A lot of people like this person, Grant, think they've been or may have been abducted.
		What is a proper course for somebody like this to follow?
		If they want to know, can they be hypnotic regression?
		What do you think?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends how much they want to know about it, because once you open the door through regression, you can't close the door again.
		So you have to be prepared to go down that road.
		If it's not bothering you, I would say just leave it.
		If it bothers you enough, I would say record what you're doing.
		Definitely record the story that's happening to you and talk about it.
		We have experiencer groups all over the country now where people will go and talk, and you'll come across people in those experiencer groups who are telling your story.
		You gain support from there.
		Regression is always a route you can go to go to a particular event that you remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you really trust regression?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's a lot of controversy around that.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, physical, I mean, just our ordinary, I say we have a problem with our ordinary reality, believing a lot of stuff that really isn't true.
		Sure, I mean, there's going to be a problem with regression, this idea of people being led.
		But a lot of regression, most people who remember stuff from the abduction stuff have never been regressed.
		The same as most people who are abducted, didn't happen when they're sleeping.
		It happens during the day.
		So we have all these sort of impressions that people are getting these bad images from regression, and very few people are regressed.
		Almost nobody's regressed.
		Most of the stuff that you hear is people remembering it without regression.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Douglas on Skype, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		I can barely...
		You practically answered my question.
		But I was wondering about past life regression and how that might relate in the abduction and also what they may think about the world the way it is now.
		It's kind of a mess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's kind of a mess.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so you know, you've got a big hum on your Skype thing or your whatever you're connected to.
		You've got a big hum on it.
		Anyway, yes.
		Well, Grant, again, past Life and abduction seems to be connected.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I believe it's connected.
		I mean, I may be wrong, but I believe there's a connection.
		If reincarnation is a fact, then you've got to factor that in, and people aren't factoring that in.
		It's almost like Shakespeare said: all the world's a stage, and all the men and women are but actors.
		They have their entrances and exits, and each man plays many roles.
		So we came to the earth to do something.
		And if you're an experiencer, I believe that's the role you've been chosen to do.
		If you're a radio broadcaster, that's the role you've probably been chosen to do.
		And you have something to do it, and do it the best you can.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		North Hollywood, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Grant.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Art.
		Thank you so much.
		I just want to say, first off, that in the entire UFO community, this whole afterdark community, you are the only one that I really trust that you're coming on here to do a good job of finding truth.
		And that's honest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I've been listening to all of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of them may be trustworthy, but I'm appreciative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Well, you know, anybody who's working on, for my, you know, the way I feel, on network radio or network TV is working for the agenda that we're all pretty much trying to uncover.
		And so that leads to my question for your guest is this.
		Sure.
		There is a lady, I've watched some videos on YouTube of a lady in the 90s who came out saying that a lot of what she was finding about the gray alien UFO, oh, you know, the abduction phenomenon is a false memory implant.
		And that soon after that, she came up with a very mysterious form of cancer and died very quickly.
		And I've seen over the years that all the conspiracy theories, the government goes right after those people that they really don't want that information to get out.
		They don't want you looking in that direction.
		They kill them.
		Happened with the 9-11 towers, happened with Roswell, happened with the Kennedy assassination, and who knows what countless things.
		So my question is, could this, if it is, and I don't know because I haven't made a decision, if this is a false memory scenario where they're putting implants in people just like they've been doing in animals for years and it appears to be the same kind of implant, could it be hiding the fact that we're either,
		like James Gates, the science advisor for Obama says, living in a computer code simulated reality and that the barrier might be the Arctic Circle or the Antarctic that we can't get beyond because there are stories of like Admiral Byrd and people going can't get past that barrier, and that the whole sky above us with the sun and the moon and the stars is really a hologram.
		I think these ships can move the way they do because like a laser pointer.
		I get my dog to run after a laser pointer all day long because she's just looking at this light that's making no sound.
		It appears, it disappears, it goes on and off, it flickers in and out, and it can move at astonishing speeds.
		So that's my question.
		Do you think this is a false implant or part of it is it's a false implair theory hiding the fact that we're either enclosed in a barrier on top of maybe a larger object and really unable to get in space or that we're in a computer simulation?
		All right.
		I'll listen offline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here it comes.
		Grant.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I believe we're in a hologram.
unidentified		Yes.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I believe it's all just a hologram.
		It's just one thing that we move around in.
		I agree with that.
		With the woman, I know who you're talking about.
		All I can say from my own personal experience, I've been in this for 40 years.
		I have never been threatened by anybody.
		And I chased the president.
		I chased the head scientist for the CIA.
		I've never been threatened by anybody.
		And I've never had a deep throat witness who is going to come to me and say, I'm going to violate my security oath and tell you what's going on.
		I can just from my own personal experience.
		So I always have doubts about, you know, the government knocking off UFO researchers and stuff like that, because I've never had anything even close to a threat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold it right there.
		Grant Cameron is my guest.
		We're talking about abductees.
unidentified		Pretty, actually, very serious stuff.
unidentified		Not pretty serious, very serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		The New York Times Oh, Willie, you done, done, mean?
		You bet I felt it.
		I tried to beat you, but you're so hot that I melted.
		I fell right through the cracks.
		And I'm trying to get back.
		Before the cool done run out, I'll be giving it my best is.
		And nothing's gonna stop me but divine intervention.
		I reckon it's again my turn to win some or learn some.
		I won't exert no more, no more.
		It cannot await.
		I'm yours.
		Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nine.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Grant Cameron is here.
		And I've got a oramal message from Duncan all the way in New Zealand, really.
		Art, has Grant ever spoken with former Canadian Defense Minister Paul Hellier regarding his call for world governments to disclose the ET existence to the public?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Numerous times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Numerous Times.
unidentified		With what result?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know he's made the call.
		I mean, I know Paul fairly well.
		I mean, he makes the call almost every speech he makes for openness and to disclose this whole situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go all the way to the other side of the world, I think.
		And you're on the air with Grant Cameron.
		Hello.
		Hello there in Thailand.
		Are you there?
unidentified		Yes, I am here.
unidentified		And you'll be interested to know, Art, that your internet broadcast and the Skype timing is off by about a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's fine.
		No problem.
		Yes.
		It's the nature of the Internet.
unidentified		I have a quick question for Grant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		I ask you if you agree with my observation that very much of the information about one kind of alien, if there are more than one, but one kind, is that they are talking just like a Buddhist, just like a Tibetan Buddhist.
		Tibetan Buddhists are not worried about what happens to the world.
		They will not intervene into people's lives or major catastrophes that are oncoming.
		They just stand back and meditate.
		There are many, many factors that Buddhism has talked about for 2,000 years that theoretical physics, quantum physics, is now finally creeping up on.
		So my question is, how do you see and could you possibly direct more people toward the study of Buddhism to connect with the physics and with the alien discussions?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I think he's made a very valid point is that quantum physics is now starting to validate what UFO people have been saying for the last 70 years.
		And the same is happening with Eastern religions, with Buddhism, is starting to validate quantum physics.
		There was even a big meeting, you know, with the Dalai Lama and some quantum physics people in Europe.
		This is all coming together.
		And I think it's just a matter of time that people are going to be more consciously aware of the fact that all these ideas tie together.
		And the physical worldview is going to start dying.
		The fact that we believe that everything is separate and is physical.
		The Buddhist ideas are gaining more prominence in the West, and so is quantum physics.
		And they both validate what UFO people have been saying forever.
		All these ideas are coming together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm good with that.
		Let's go to Columbus, Ohio on the phone.
		You're on there.
unidentified		Yeah, I actually wanted to talk about the universe as a hologram topic.
		A couple years ago, I read that they had discovered the Higgs-Boson particle, and it behaved exactly the way they thought that it would, only it had no mass.
		And subsequently, they all freaked out that essentially proved that this was all some sort of simulation.
		And then immediately that article went away and I never found it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not sure it really proved that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never read that, but I can take your word for it.
unidentified		If you could find it, I'd love to read that article again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Essentially, you're talking about the Matrix, right?
unidentified		Essentially, but I've got a different take on it.
		I'm a lifer, and I did actually have one of those information dumps, and this kind of came to me after that.
		But even if faster-than-light travel were possible, it would still take a lot of time to get from place to place.
		What if this were just something to do along the way?
		If you had to travel for 70 years and you needed something to occupy yourself, this is basically the DVD player in the back of the menu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To some degree, it depends on how much faster than light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if it's 1,000 times, then you're getting somewhere pretty quick.
unidentified		Sure, but if it's infinitely...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you can bend space, then you get there really quickly.
unidentified		That is true.
		Yeah, there's that zero-point documentary, the Mark McAndlish thing, where they discuss that and faster-than-light travel and how it's possible, et cetera, et cetera.
		And that kind of opened up a whole new realm of understanding for faster-than-light travel and that sort of thing.
		So, anyway, I guess that's all I had to say.
		Thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you for making the call.
		And let's try Skype.
		You're on the air with Grant.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		You're talking to me, aren't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Well, I'm in northern Idaho where we're having that drought, and we're getting a half a crop right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, get good and close to the speaker mic on your computer or whatever it is you're talking into.
unidentified		I've got a headset, Mike.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Can you hear me all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		All right.
		Well, really quick thing, I want to say hi to Dave and the X Paranormal Award.
		And my first question is, is it possible, I have to write these down, isn't it possible that maybe we're like one of those cargo cults that are in the Pacific?
		You know, like, say that we're like a big pea tree dish and the Earth was like a dead planet, like they're terraforming in Star Trek.
		And we were seated here as an experiment.
		And that's why you have all these different alien races, the greys, the reptilians.
		Maybe, perhaps it's like stimulus and response.
		And some cultures were wiped out.
		Others were given technological advances to see where it would take us.
		Perhaps even the guests that you have on now, perhaps that's even part of one of their experiments, a thought experiment to see what these people who are contacted will do and the rest of us.
		And yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, pause for a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to respond to any of that, Grant?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't disagree with any of it.
		I mean, sure, it's possible.
		I mean, in fact, that's the whole thing behind the hybrid thing, is where are all the hybrids going, and they may be seeding another planet.
		I mean, I don't disagree that we were seeded and that there's an experiment going on.
		I believe that evolution, the universe Is evolving and it's learning and it's growing.
		And they're part of this growing and seeding, and we're part of doing it on this planet.
		We're trying to learn more and grow.
		And so I don't disagree with anything he's saying.
unidentified		Well, you can't beat that, caller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I said you can't beat that.
unidentified		No, you can't.
		I mean, all of it is a reasonable argument.
		We really don't know.
		And now is probably the best time to be posing these questions.
		So when we may possibly have contact in the future or finally escape this planet, you know, we'll know all the right questions to ask.
		So we'll kind of have a good idea in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we're the Australia of the cosmos.
		You know, it's a prison planet like some people think.
		Gardnerville, hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		My name's Claudia.
		I'm calling in, and I have a lot of questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of questions?
		We don't have a lot of time, so take your best questions.
		Okay.
unidentified		Okay, I had dreams, and one time for a whole week, it was like a panel of beings, and they gave me all this information.
		It was like I went to kindergarten to Harvard.
		And then after that, I drew these drawings.
		Like he was talking about, people get the drawings, you know.
		And they were so intricate.
		I never drew before or after.
		And it was like a draftsman drew it.
		Anyway, one of my questions is on the dreams.
		Do you think that they come in on dreams a lot more because it's just easier for people to receive it?
		Because I've seen UFOs in the awakened state, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly when we're asleep, we're more susceptible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no question about that.
unidentified		Yeah, because one time I went to this, it was all the Buddhist monks, and I had asked the Dalai Lama if information came in to him that way.
		And he said most of his information comes in through the dream state.
		So I wonder how many more people are really abducted that don't, well, not abducted, but downloaded, that don't really even know that they had been.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a reasonable, that's a good one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant, what do you think?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I'm very interested.
		I would ask to call her to make sure she writes all this kind of stuff down and documents this.
		This is much more common than people think it is.
		And I actually wrote this manuscript where I go through Nobel Prizes.
		I go through the concept of Google came in a dream.
		You know, the theory of relativity came in a dream.
		This is very, very common that people are getting downloads through dreams, you know, musicians and stuff like that.
		It's very, very common.
		And that's why I say it's so important to look at, rather than watching lights in the sky or caring about what the government is doing, is to look at these experiencers and learn from the experiencers, from this woman that's calling in right now.
		What was she taught?
		What was she shown?
		And what does this all mean?
		It means something.
		It means something very important to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it.
unidentified		For Dark Matter News, I'm Leo Ashcraft.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		A strong 6.9 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of western Alaska near the islands of Four Mountains, according to the U.S. Geological Service.
		The epicenter of the trimmer on Monday was 76 kilometers southeast of the Anasca Island, the largest island in a group in the chain of the volcanic Aleutian Islands that stretch across the northern Pacific from the U.S. to Russia.
		The quake struck at a depth estimated at 11.9 kilometers.
		No tsunami alert was issued following the quake.
		The Aleutian Islands run along the trench of the same name and comprise the northern part of the so-called Pacific Rim of Fire, an area of frequent seismic activity.
		A new online video shows several cases of collisions and near-mid-air collisions between UFOs and airplanes.
		A YouTube video highlights the dangers that airplane pilots face due to frequent encounters with UFOs during flight.
		One case involved an Aeromexico airplane and a UFO in Mexico.
		The UFO hit the airplane near Cancun in southeastern Mexico.
		Another involved a Cessna airplane near Tulaco, which was approached by five UFOs.
		The UFOs approached the Cessna closely and passed by the other way, barely avoiding collision with the airplane.
		In yet another incident, a UFO sphere flew past a Boeing 747, and in a separate incident, a light orb has a close brush with an airplane.
		UFO oligologists say that the incident of mid-air collisions and near collisions between airplanes and UFOs is higher than acknowledged.
		And UFO ologists acknowledge that while most cases in the past involved remote-controlled drones, some cases are more difficult to explain.
		This is Dark Matter News.
unidentified		This is Dark Matter News.
		Hi, I'm Asia Bell, and it's very late, so I'm sleeping now.
		But yo, wake up, call my daddy, because he's awake, too.
		The number is 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1952.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call R. What can I say?
		Proud daddy.
		Good evening, everybody.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		My guest is Grant Cameron.
		He's talking about abduction, and there are a lot of abductions out there.
		As mentioned, Bob Bigelow did a survey, and the results were astounding.
		Absolutely astounding.
		So Let's see which way to go.
		It's got so many.
		Let's go here to Christoph, I believe it is, with Grant Cameron.
		Christoph, where are you?
		Christophe.
		Hello?
		Maybe it's Christopher.
		I don't know.
		Nah, he's not there.
		So we will say goodbye, and we will go instead to, let me see.
		You know what?
		I think Christoph was there.
		Did you hear Christoph Grant?
unidentified		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where was he?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		At Bangkok, he said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bangkok.
		I'm sorry, Christoph, man.
		I cut you off.
		I'm sorry.
		Still learning over here.
unidentified		Let's try Cameron.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cameron, you're on midnight.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		See, but Cameron's up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's funny.
		That's really funny.
		Okay, that's fine.
		Jacob on Skype, you're on.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your whatever off, please.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And get good and close to your computer or whatever.
unidentified		Oh, good.
		Where's the hell that?
		There we go.
		Is that better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a little better, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Much better now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, much better.
unidentified		Do you have any question?
		Yes.
		I wanted to ask a question for your guests tonight because I've heard a lot with abduction phenomena.
		Things like cattle mutilations and half-cats are another thing I've heard.
		And if he believes that alien life forms are benevolent, then where are these kind of stories coming from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a good, good question.
		Cattle mutilations, half-cats, things that, at least to humans, appear to be very, very negative.
		What about that, Grant?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		As to cattle mutilations, I look at who would be the most likely to leave half a cow, like this mutilated cow, in plain view.
		And I would say that it's not the government, because the government would take it and dump it.
		If the aliens wanted it for genetic material, they could take it and keep it.
		I always go to this thing about leaving messages.
		The cats, I can't really explain, but when it comes to the cattle mutilations, when I see that, I just see a message because most of them are downrange from nuclear power plants and places like that.
		And I say it's just a message.
		They want people to take pictures.
		They want this message to think something's going on here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant, I really want to ask you this, and it's going to be a hard question for you.
		Are you sure that when you hear these things that are negative, and frankly, there are a lot of things about aliens and encounters and abductions and the whole range that do or would have to be seen negatively?
		Are you sure that you don't, I don't know, lock them out because you don't want to believe that?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		No.
		As I said, the more I look at it, the less I believe in the whole idea about evil aliens.
		To me, it goes to the thing about evil other countries and stuff like that, that there may be things that people do.
		It's like you and I, there are no...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you really do believe what you're saying.
		Let's go back to Christoph.
		Christoph, turn off your radio or your whatever.
unidentified		All the way off.
		Okay, should be off.
		Can you hear me well?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you quite well.
		Yes.
		You're in Bangkok?
unidentified		I'm in Bangkok indeed.
unidentified		I'm so excited to get through to you after 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to have you, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This new technology we have makes the world a pretty small place, I'd say.
unidentified		Indeed.
		I just tried on Skype on the laptop.
		That didn't work, so I just went straight to my iPhone networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was me that screwed you up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Okay.
		So I have a question for Grant, and I also have something that might be of interest regarding the other show from before with Nassim.
		But first, a question for Grant.
		So maybe linked to the other caller from Asia who talked about Buddhism.
		Back in the 90s, I was camping at the Sendia Peak in New Mexico, and I experienced an abduction over there.
		So we used to lock our tent before going to sleep.
		The mountain lions that night were going crazy.
		And the day after, when we woke up, the locks were open and laying inside the tent next to the net.
		So I was talking to my ex-girlfriend and I was asking her, like, hey, did you go to the bathroom or what happened?
		She said, no, I just stayed in.
		So it was a bit of a mystery.
		And when we walked outside, I was going to make some pancakes in the morning.
		She said, what's this on your shoulder over there?
		And it was like the red dots in the shape of a pyramid.
		So they were perfectly mathematically aligned.
		They stayed for about four days.
		And when you had your other collar on here about Buddhism in Thailand, it just struck me that whenever we go into a cab over here, the cab becomes blessed.
		So they have these dots painted in the shape of a pyramid on the ceiling, on the roof of the cab, just for good luck.
		So first of all, I wanted to ask Grant over here, have you ever heard this kind of story before that somebody has left these marks on their shoulder?
		And what do you think about that connection?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		It's absolutely very common.
		It's probably the most common mark that's left, is this triangle mark, either sort of a triangle filled in or like the three dots that form the triangle.
		It's very, very common.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
		Another thing, the point I wanted to make about the show with Nassim and about how can we communicate like with the new planet at the Kepler 452B or something.
		There might be a way actually, because we're always thinking like it takes over a thousand years to get there.
		When Nassim talked about these entangled particles, that if we can separate them, we can move them anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		We are a step closer.
		Only we would have to bring them there.
		Now, what if these entangled particles exist all over the universe?
		We just have to find the matching pairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty cool idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can be sure we're going to pursue that one, my friend.
unidentified		Okay.
		Thank you.
		Nice talking to you.
		Absolutely wonderful show.
		And have a fan over here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Thank you.
		Imagine that.
		All the way from Thailand.
		Sounds like he's right in the room.
		It's just absolutely astounding.
		Scott on Skype.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
		Scott, hello.
		Maybe not.
		Easy enough to go to, let's see, Gaisanji, is that correct?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, get good and close to your microphone, please.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		It was this guy in Amarillo, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Amarillo, okay.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I wanted to know, Terrence McKenna came up earlier, and he talks about in some of his DMT explorations running into what he describes as self-transforming machine elves.
		And I wonder if maybe Grant thinks that might be a more accurate or better way of thinking about or conceiving of aliens?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, actually, it's a superb question.
		Grant, there are plenty of people who think that some drugs are a key to the kind of realms that you've been talking about.
		It is worth a comment.
		And what do you say?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said, I say it's all the same thing.
		It's all connected.
		And I've done this manuscript and I do the different types of downloads.
		And the one chapter I do is on psychedelics.
		And yes, psychedelics is the same thing.
		It's breaking the conscious mind.
		It's ripping the filter and allowing you to move out of the conscious mind into this non-local world, the dream world, and pick up this type of information.
		It's exactly the same thing.
		It's the same thing as meditation.
		It's just a faster sort of sidestepping way of doing it.
		There's all sorts of ways that we can do this.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pam, Through the Wormhole, says, what does Grant think of the so-called shadow government?
		How does it fit into the scheme?
		What are their motives?
		What do they stand to gain with all their meddling in the world government?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can just speak of the American, which I studied.
		The shadow government, I believe they, again, people will see them as evil.
		I just see them as deluded people who think they're doing the right thing.
		There are 13 presidents who have dealt with the UFO subject.
		They have all dealt with it exactly the same way, Republican, Democrat.
		They all believe they're trying to save the world.
		They all believe for whatever reason that they're doing the right thing.
		Otherwise, people would defect.
		Nobody's defecting, which means they, for whatever reason, believe they're doing the right thing.
		And I would say that the reason that they're withholding it, the number one reason is that we're the good guys and we want to keep these secrets.
		And if we give it to Al-Qaeda and ISIL, they're going to use it to kill Americans.
		I would say that's the number one reason why they're withholding the information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Carl on Stripe, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Dayton, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, excellent.
unidentified		Yeah, I was just wondering, your guest seems to think that they're all benevolent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		What's to say that, you know, I mean, how many races of aliens do you think there are?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Probably billions or trillions.
unidentified		So what's the chance of, you know, them all being benevolent?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As Richard Hoagland would say, it only takes one white crow.
		It only takes one nasty group or race of aliens to stomp on us like an anthill.
		That's Art saying this, not Grant.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you're saying that is there a nation on the earth that is absolutely evil, where women do not mourn for their children who die in war?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Is there a nation that we should bomb out of existence because they're totally evil?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if that's what he's saying.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you're going to make that analogy with other planets, is there something on this earth where we had the Japanese who were totally evil, and we dropped two atomic bombs on them, and then suddenly the evil evaporated, and suddenly they're great guys, and we're trading with them, and they're our friends.
		Evil changes from time to time.
		We have this impression that we put evil on a nation, and then we have a right to go and bomb them and kill them.
		And I'm saying there really is no evil nation.
		There is no nation.
		There are people who do good and bad things for whatever reasons.
		But there are no evil nations where everybody in that nation is evil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a response?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I just made a statement to what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or a caller?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a response?
unidentified		No?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's a no.
		All right, caller.
		Well, thank you.
		Nobody had anything to say.
		Let's go to the phones and say hello.
		You're on with Grant Cameron.
unidentified		You rock art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I try.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that all you want to say?
		I guess that's all you want to say.
		Very, very kind of you.
		Let's try Skype.
unidentified		Skype.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scott on Skype.
unidentified		Hey, Art, can you hear me this time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, I tried my headset last time, but first of all, I'm listening to you on iTunes.
unidentified		Tune In on PlayStation 3.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Fantastic.
		I'm actually working as I'm listening to you on my laptop, and it's good to have you back.
		I've been listening to you for years.
		Thank you.
		To your guest, wow, first of all, you touched on the African contact and the school children.
		Is there more information on that?
		And does he have any information on possibly interaction at LH, the Large Hadron Collider, and anything there with stopping of testing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think they're going to stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I don't know anything about the second question.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		The first one I can add to the African, the Rhodesian case, there's actually a documentary coming out on this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really fast.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		John Mack had gone and interviewed these children, and one of them has now come public with all her paintings and her experience and the downloads that she got from the aliens.
		And they're now putting together a documentary of whatever kids are now in their 30s talking about what happened to them and the messages they got.
		So there is a documentary that is being done as we speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Denver, Colorado.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Jim in England, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey.
unidentified		Hi.
		Are we on the air right now?
		We are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn off your device, please.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a very long delay between about 30 seconds between here and there.
unidentified		Okay.
		Okay, great, great.
		Well, great.
		Glad to have you back, Art.
		We love you very much.
		Thank you.
		And Grant, just wondering, this is kind of a cross-genre question, but people evolved on the planet Earth seem to be capable of communicating with souls that have passed away, physically passed away.
		Is it possible aliens are not intervening and are evolved past us and maybe because of a sense of spirituality?
		And is it not possible some of our ghost contacts are actually, I mean, do they have spirits?
		Do they have souls?
		And is it possible that they are some of the ghosts that we encounter?
		Okay.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		76% of experiencers claim encounters with ghosts and spirits.
		Again, it's all connected.
		You're interacting with this world, that the experiencers are able to get into this world through dreams, through whatever, and they're interacting.
		Like a lot of experiencers will talk, once they've had their experience, they'll talk about the shadow people in the houses.
		They'll talk about the fact that they're able to heal people, that they can see auras, that they're seeing ghosts.
		All this paranormal phenomena starts happening around them.
		And it's almost like they rip the filter and all this stuff starts to enter.
		It's all connected.
		It's just moving out of this physical mindset that we have.
		And you start encountering the rest of consciousness, the rest of the universe, which is not the physical world.
unidentified		Excellent.
unidentified		And one other quick point, if I might, and that is, isn't it possible, if not probable, that many of the alien encounters that people experience are not with organic beings, but that if the aliens are so evolved that they can create what would be the ultimate robot that can withstand the physical rigors of space travel?
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I would say if I were to guess, I would say that the majority, you even had our first guest when he was talking about the school kids where people come in balls of light.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		I believe that I would not be surprised if all of this stuff is almost like spiritual type beings, that there really, not going to really be any aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Grant, listen, the phones are ringing off the hook, but we're out of time.
		And when I say out of time, really out of time.
		Give me your website or whatever you want to plug real quick.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Presidentialufo.com is my website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Presidentialufo.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if they want to read more about this, presumably be in touch with you or something like that, that would be the place.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
grant cameron ▲ ● ▼		Or give me my email, WhitehouseUFO at gmail.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you for being on the program, my friend.
		Thank you so very much.
		Everybody, stay tuned for Richard C. Hoagland.
		He comes up next.
unidentified		But that's all the time I've got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People insist I play all of this, and so I do, because, well, it's crystal.
unidentified		Magical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert to the world, good night.
unidentified		We'll take us on a ride Filled with the longing Searching for the truth Will we make it to tomorrow?
		Will the sun shine on you?
		Midnight in the desert, and we're listening.
		Let's not mean.
		Midnight in the desert, and there's wisdom in the air.
		I've been looking for the answers.
		All my life I found you there.
		As the world we live in, I'll be heating all the signs.
		Have we lost our intuition?
		Are we running out of time?
		Midnight in the desert.
		And we're listening.

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