Tobias McGriff and James Fox explore Jimmy Carter’s 1976 UFO sighting in Leary, Georgia, corrected to an eastward location by ex-police officer Fred Hart, alongside cases like Socorro (1964) and Varginha (Brazil, 1996), where witnesses described "bean" entities and suppressed evidence. Dr. John Mack’s 1994 Rua Zimbabwe investigation—children reporting telepathic contact with small beings—raises questions about his suspicious death. McGriff’s $100K reward for UFO crash proof (701TheMovie.com) and callers’ accounts of Men in Black, hybrid theories, and nuclear monitoring suggest governments prioritize control over disclosure, leaving humanity unprepared for potential extraterrestrial involvement. [Automatically generated summary]
it's about to end Sunday at noon that's about when Keith generally gets up Keith Roland my webmaster Sunday at noon it ends so if you've got a ghost photograph you really should submit it like right now send it to webmaster at artbell.com if your photograph is judged and that'll begin next week if your photograph is judged the winner you
get a brand new Sirius XM radio and you get a one-year subscription you can't beat that that's quite a bit in a bundle for a ghost picture so again if you have one um who knows you could be the winner keith really loves posting ghost photographs I know.
So send them over.
Webmaster at artbell.com now.
We're also doing ghost stories for Halloween.
And if you haven't noticed, this is a pretty ghosty month.
Lots of guests about ghosts.
And I wanted it that way.
If you've got a ghost story, then perhaps on Spooky Matters, that's our show on Halloween.
Spooky Matter.
Singular.
Actually, it's singular and plural at the same time, if you think about it.
If you've got a ghost story, send it to me.
Just a small paragraph, you know, describing a little bit of it and your phone number, and maybe we'll call you.
So send any ghost stories you want to submit to artbell at artbell.com.
Artbell at artbell.com.
I'm really, oh, one more thing about the website.
Keith informs me they now have bumper stickers in Arts Parts.
Arts Parts.
That's the name of the store on the website.
Bumper Stickers, if you want one.
Dark matter bumper stickers.
Pretty cool, actually.
I'm really chafing to experiment with Skype.
As you know, I've got it hooked up here.
And, you know, I have guests all the time.
And so I don't know.
Maybe tonight I'll open it for everybody when it comes time to take questions for the guests.
Now, the only thing is, if you're going to call me with Skype, first of all, don't do it now.
Second of all, have a headset, you know, a headset and a mic, or use your iPhone or something and get real close to the phone.
But I'll probably open it for everybody.
I don't know what I've got all these overseas people listening.
They keep sending me messages like crazy.
I had one just a few minutes ago.
From Taiwan.
Listening to you over here in Taiwan sounds great.
Well, why don't you call me?
When I open a line for the international folks, where are you?
I get messages from Europe, Asia, all over the world.
But then when I open the lines, okay.
Somebody sent me a graphic earlier.
And it's a well-done graphic, and it's tongue-in-cheek kind of.
And the graphic says, a UFO.
Quick.
Grab the worst camera we own.
Well, that's a dig, of course, at people who have taken pictures of UFOs, and it really makes me angry.
It's unfair because, in my opinion, 95% of the time, there's no camera at all.
Now, maybe that's changing in the last few years with cameras on phones.
But generally, there's no camera around at all.
Certainly, that was true for most years that UFOs were about, save the last few.
Now we've got them on our hip, right?
So 95% of the time, you don't have a camera.
Certainly, when I saw my big setting, I had no camera.
And if I had had one, I don't know that I'd had the sensibilities to grab it.
Might have.
But I say 95% of the time, there is no camera, and you're in shock.
4% of the time, people are in shock, and they do grab their camera, but they're shaken because they're in shock.
And so the picture doesn't come out as well as it might when you're shaken.
Then the last 1% of the time, then people grab their camera, and it's a good Nikon or something, and it's high-quality film and fast and everything, and they get a perfect picture of a UFO.
And we get hold of it and put it up, and everybody says, oh, that's too good Photoshop for sure.
Right?
So there is no winning, no matter how you look at it.
There's no way to win in terms of pictures of UFOs.
And so I understand that, but people are so brutal.
The U.S. Geological Survey has recorded seven small earthquakes.
This was Tuesday, southwest of Lake Shasta.
That's potentially ungood.
The earliest at just before 3 a.m.
Tuesday, about three miles west of Lake Boulevard in Shasta Lake, or about six and a half miles west of Interstate 5.
That's an area you want to keep a close eye on.
And then there was this.
I picked it up from theanomalist.com.
Due to an increase in UFO reports over Peru, the government in Peru is relaunching an office it first established back in 2001, but which was inactive recently under the name of the Office of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena Research.
Peru is obviously taking the whole issue very seriously, as is the Air Force, Navy, and Army.
Even the police are all participating in the effort.
It's a step forward in the region and the world, providing a timely and adequate response to Peru's urgent public need, I'm quoting here, regarding the unidentified flying object phenomenon.
What other government do we wish would get on with something like that?
All right, we're going to break here and McGriff cometh.
And more, actually.
It's going to be a fascinating night, and I'll update you in just actually McGriff himself will update you in a moment on that coincidental scheduling conflict.
Anyway, there is an occasional need still for terrestrial radio, especially when Mother Nature begins to get wild.
There's been a lot of that lately, you know?
Earthquake in the Philippines, pretty big one.
Floods everywhere, hurricanes, typhoons.
The new CC Radio 2E, that's E is an echo from Sea Crane, is, first of all, it's a historic radio.
This radio will pick up AM stations that other radios don't know exist.
I mean, it's awesome.
The circuitry in that thing is, well, it's beyond, way beyond other radios.
Most of them are kind of numb on AM, frankly.
It's got great FM.
It's got the NOAA band so that you'll know if bad weather is coming your way.
And it's got an alert that you can set so that it goes off if bad weather's coming your way or anything else.
Also comes with the two-meter ham band.
So you can listen to people like me.
And frequently, people like me have more information about what's coming than the authorities.
You know, they just don't sometimes talk about it.
So if you can hear the hams, you'll know what's going on.
Then, of course, you can listen to even dark matter on it by using a simple patch cord to connect from your Sirius XM receiver directly to the CC Radio 2E.
Because the audio that comes out is just awesome.
So, it's the best radio for AM reception.
Comes with great FM, comes with two meters, comes with alert, and yes, it costs some money.
It's a historically wonderful radio, $159.95.
Give C. Crane a call right now at 800-522-8863.
That's 800-522-8863.
Of course, they're on the web at ccrane.com.
Now, Tobias McGriff, Tobias studied history, actually, at Oxford University.
He is a historian of all things strange.
He is the founder of the Blue Orb Ghost Tours in Savannah, Georgia.
How about that?
Way down south in Georgia, an author and filmmaker in the UFO and paranormal genre.
Tobias is currently filming Modern Hauntings with documents, eyewitness accounts, evidence of modern supernatural encounters here in America.
Oh, I just got a notification.
We'll continue in a moment, that Congress has just kicked the can.
That's right.
The House has kicked the can.
I guess the Senate whacked it down the road first, and then Congress kicked the can.
So we're okay until, I don't know, a couple months or so.
Anyway, getting back to Tobias, that was sort of breaking news.
He was told the story of a rash of UFO sightings in southern Georgia during the late 1960s and early 70s.
It resulted in covert Pentagon investigation, really.
Lights Over Leary also highlights President Carter's UFO sighting, you know he had one, right?
In Leary, Georgia, and the first interview ever granted by fellow eyewitness Fred Hart, who shares new and controversial information about the event.
And he'll be on tonight.
Also, apart from his own projects, he is currently a producer on the upcoming full theatrical release film called 701, which explores the unsolved cases from Project Blue Book, and yes, there were many, and features the writing talent of Tracy Torm from Star Trek and UFO filmmaker James Fox, who I said will be on later.
Out of the blue, I know what I saw.
I love that line and have used it myself so many times.
Then last Thursday or Friday, I think it was Friday, actually.
Might have been Thursday, we put up our guest list for the coming week.
And then suddenly, to my chagrin, yesterday, I found out that the other guys had suddenly slipped you in, lo and behold, one day before you were to appear here.
And that led to some, I don't know what the right word for it would be, angst, I suppose.
You've got to admit, I mean, scheduling you that quickly and throwing you in there one day before you're going to be on over here, that was kind of lame.
But I mean, I know that you've got a publicist, and that's how it happened.
And then you and I spoke, of course, before the show, but people have been sending you some, I guess, some hate mail.
When I was listening to the show last night, I caught the first, the intro that you did.
And when you used the word coincidence over and over again, the thing that kept coming to my mind was, you know, a coincidence is what you have left over when you apply a bad theory.
There were a couple of people that have suggested my parents weren't married when they conceived me, and a couple of other things, but other than that, I can handle it.
And the last guy who's kind of the centerpiece of this whole thing is Fred Hart.
And for anyone that is intimately familiar with Carter's sighting, and the main explanation being that he mistook Venus looking to the west, when you listen to Fred Hart's statements, just the few that we give you, and when you watch his hands, he went from being completely calm when we were doing that scene to when he started talking about the event, the cameraman, our DP, Bo Kester, he's got an eye for it.
He saw it happening.
Fred started fidgeting with his hands.
He started getting nervous.
And then he says the thing that he's never wanted to say.
So when you take credible people like this, and I might add quite a bit older people, who were saying these things and had a sighting with President Carter, it's got to have a pretty deep meaning.
I mean, you know, by the time you get to that age, you're not out to wow anybody.
You just want to tell it like it is while you can still tell it.
I mean, when somebody doesn't want to open up about something like this for a lot of reasons, and I understand those reasons, I mean, public ridicule, and on and on and on and on.
It's about four hours from where I'm at in Savannah.
So I rode up there, actually, by myself, pulled into Leary.
And if you're not from the South, you may not get this.
Maybe you will.
I don't know.
But when I pulled into town, there's a peanut mill on the right.
And everything happens at the peanut mill.
And I saw three or four guys standing out there, and they were talking, smoking cigarettes, whatever.
And so I pull in, and I know these guys are going to know where Fred Hart's at, because I don't even know where he lives.
And so I pull into the parking lot, and I get out, and I walk up to them, and I say, I know this is going to sound crazy, but I'm here to talk to Fred Hart about a UFO.
And they looked at me as you would expect them to.
And I said, he was with President Carter, right?
And one guy in the group said, yeah, Fred lives just right there.
And he turns around and he points to a house next to a water tower.
And he said, but I don't know if he'll talk to you.
And I said, well, do you think one of you guys can maybe give him a call or go with me and let me explain what I want to do?
And so he said, yeah.
He pulled his cell phone out, calls him, and says, Fred, we've got a guy down here that wants to talk to you.
And apparently Fred must have asked him, you know, what's it about?
And he wants to talk to you about Carter.
And I heard from me, I couldn't hear what Fred was saying, but it went on for a couple of minutes.
And finally, he says that I can come to his house.
So I get in the car right over there and I pull up into the yard.
Fred is waiting for me on the porch.
He looks at me, and the first thing he says to me is, are you from the government?
And I said, no, I'm from Savannah.
And he said, you guys have got some good shrimp down there.
I said, yeah, we sure do.
He said, are you from there?
And I said, well, I'm from Alabama, but I live in Savannah.
And he looked me up and down.
He said, come on in.
And he turns around and opens up the screen porch, the door, and we go inside and sit down.
And he tells me that he's not going to interview for anything.
And I began to talk to him about the importance of the film and something he didn't know.
And this is the one thing that even folks like Don Schmidt or the Roswell expert, even he wasn't familiar with the breadth of the sightings in Leary.
And I lay it out for Fred about exactly how big this thing was and just let him know that you're not the only one in this.
And it's also a piece that's going to go into the history books because it involves a president.
And so what I got him to do first was to tell me the story off camera, no pressure, sitting in his living room.
And when we got to the end of it, after about two hours, he finally agrees to do it.
He tried backing out on me two or three different times before we finally got down there.
And when we finally interviewed him and filmed him, I said, is there anything I can do for you for your time, whatever, because he's on a fixed income.
Is there anything I can do for you?
He said, the next time you come through here, bring me some of those shrimp.
So I still owe Fred a bag of shrimp.
But we had to go through several phone calls.
He wanted to back out a few times.
And I think I finally asked him, I said, why did you finally agree to talk about this?
And to your point, he said, because I'm old enough now that I don't give a damn what anybody thinks.
Oh, well, James is loosely affiliated with this film, but he's intimately involved in 701, so I'd probably be the better one to describe what Fred had to say.
So he says that they, you know, most of the common story is that they're leaving the Lions Club meeting.
And what's really going on is they're actually leaving a lunchroom, a cafeteria that seconds as a Lions Club meeting place.
And Jimmy Carter, who is not a governor, not a president at the time, is down there to try to drum up members to the Lions Club.
So they've been riding around all afternoon trying to do it.
And Fred said they weren't able to get anybody to join.
So President Carter says, Jimmy at the time, he says he wanted to go back to the cafeteria because there was a woman in town that was famous for her fried chicken.
So he wants to make sure they get back in time to do that.
So they go back to the cafeteria and they're starting to walk in the door.
Everyone else is already in there.
And they look to the east, and they see this large object about two or three miles off the ground.
He says that it was changing colors.
It looked to be luminous, not solid, but it moved with the characteristics of a solid, which is to say, you know, a liquid will, I guess, slosh around might be the best word to use.
But he said it was moving like a solid, but it was built like a liquid.
It was changing colors.
He said it stayed there for about 10 minutes, which does line up with what President Carter has said throughout the years.
He Said, we were transfixed looking at this thing.
And, you know, President Carter has said, you know, he's given a couple of different numbers as far as how many people were standing on those steps looking at this object.
And Fred said that there were less than 10.
And they were going in there trying to get people to come out and look at this thing.
But they ran back in there, and no one would come out and look at this thing.
And so they walked off the steps away from the rest of the crowd, and they're looking at the sky.
Hangs there 10 minutes total.
And it begins to move away very fast.
And he said, then it dissipates.
It was as if it just lost its form and it was completely gone.
And I said, well, I talked to him about Venus.
And he had no idea that the rest of the world, I mean, you're talking about a guy that doesn't even own a computer.
He had no idea that the rest of the world thought the object came from the West.
He had no idea that the rest of the world thought or had tried to explain it away as Venus.
And so when he heard that, he was almost offended that people were saying that.
He said, I've been living here my whole life, and I know what Venus looks like, and Venus is over there.
And he points to where, you know, Venus would, you know, southwest, you know, western sky, you know, roughly where Venus would be.
And he said, I know east from west.
And he seemed very offended.
And the whole crux of this thing is that now that cafeteria has actually been destroyed.
And the new Leary Water Tower sits where the cafeteria used to be.
Fred Harrett lives literally less than 50 yards away from that water tower from where the sighting occurred ever since the sighting happened.
And one of the things that he said that really kind of got me was, and sometimes I go out on my back porch and I look at the sky and I wish that I could see it again.
I mean, this is a man that's lived through a lot of seasons, you know, a lot of moons, a lot of Venuses.
I mean, this is a guy that's been on that back porch quite a bit, and he's never seen anything like it before or since.
And I said, is it fair to say it was making maneuvers?
I was trying not to feed him, but I was also trying to articulate what he was trying to say to me.
Is it fair to say that it was making movements that a traditional aircraft would not be able to do?
And he said, well, the airport's just right over there.
And he said, I've seen aircraft, all kinds of them, fly over this place for 30, 40 years, and I can tell you it doesn't look like any aircraft I've ever seen.
You've got to wonder if once Jimmy Carter got into office, you know, presidents really I know people who argue with me about this, but they can pretty much demand to see whatever they want to see.
And I wonder if Carter, based on his experience seeing this object that you've just described, did make that demand when he got into office.
Well, I tell you, you know, between this film and researching what was going on in Leary and the 701 film, I've had the opportunity to actually get around some of these folks, even military officials and diplomats from South America who are very open, very open about the subject.
You know, in the United States, you have to talk to these guys after they retire.
And in South America, you can talk to guys while they're still active duty.
They're very open compared to us.
And absolutely, there is something else going on.
And speaking of James Fox, his father was a very talented interviewer.
He interviewed for Rolling Stone.
He interviewed Stephen Hawking several times.
And James used to take care of his dad.
He had MS. And so he would take him to these interviews.
And ultimately, James' dad ended up going with him to interviews.
And James was really trying to get Carter to go on record and make good on his promise.
This is post-presidency.
And President Carter was signing books one day, and James and his father were close to where it was going to be going on.
And so his dad, I never had a chance to meet him, but he sounds like a wonderful guy.
He gets it.
And so they go to the book signing, and his dad is in a wheelchair.
Jimmy Carter, every humanitarian, he comes out.
He walks over straight to James' dad, shakes his hand, asks him how he's doing, extremely jovial.
And James' father buys seven or eight books.
And because President Carter is signing them, so he wants him to have to sign as many books as he will to keep him there in front of him.
So he waits in line and he gets to the front of the line and President Carter is signing like these seven or eight books.
And James is in the back and actually has a camera on President Carter.
And James' father asked him point blank about the Leary signing, about UFO disclosure, about coming clean about what they may or may not know.
And James has related to me that it was as if some sort of trigger went off, and he said that President Carter's face, the countenance completely changed.
Like he just glossed over.
He looked around, glossed over, and was completely withdrawn after that statement.
We've held the number three, number four spot in the parapsychology section on Amazon for mostly since June when it came out of last year, June 2012.
Wow.
It's done very well.
And we've never given a free download.
So it is a PDF file.
But the great thing about the PDF file is it's the original mock-up that was done before it was ever sent to the actual printer.
And the person that did the layout for the book is Rebecca Lyson.
Now, she's the one who did the Jameson Black label.
She used to be a head designer at Barnes & Noble.
She also did some of the artwork for the Broadway show Wicked, which most people are familiar with.
So it's actually that original mock-up that no one ever gets to see.
It's the stuff that happened before it actually went to the printer, so you get to see the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Wow.
Yeah, so it's a free download.
We have some behind-the-scenes stuff posted there from the 701 shoot, and something that I think maybe the listeners probably would really enjoy is Ann Druffle.
She brought up the Rex Heflin Polaroids from his incident.
She actually brought the originals up there.
Obviously, we took photos of the originals, but...
but you also get to see her showing them to people on set.
She came out, had them wrapped in this very secure plastic, and she was very hesitant to come out with them.
James had to coax her into coming up there.
She's very protective of them because those photos went missing for almost 30 years.
So she brings those up there.
You get to see those behind-the-scenes shots.
You also get to see UFO articles, about two dozen, that we dug up on the Leary sightings that set the precedence for it was a rash of sightings.
We had to dig these out by hand.
We had to go to the Albany Herald, other places, and we had to pull these out one at a time, going through micro, going through.
Now we did have help from the archivist at the Albany Herald who was invaluable.
But we painstakingly pulled out from 1969 to 1975 all of the sightings that were going on in Georgia.
And a friend of mine who's a researcher here named Mark Eggers, he was the one that kind of turned me on to the Leary sighting.
But it was in doing that that we realized it was a rash of sightings.
And what I think is so interesting is that we have established, because there's been a great debate about when Carter actually saw the sighting.
In his report, I believe he lists it as October 1969.
We've been able to confirm that it was actually January 6, 1969.
And that means that his sighting was the first in what would then become a rash over three dozen sightings with eight pages.
We have eight pages.
I mean, an Excel spreadsheet.
I mean, you know how many people have fit on an Excel spreadsheet.
We have eight pages of witnesses from a five-year rash of sightings, and President Carter's sighting was the first one.
It was the keystone that started all the rest of them.
I don't know if there's anything to that, but I think it's very interesting.
And I mean, South America also seems to be Brazil, especially.
Basically every place, the Vargina case, I mean, basically any place you can go, there is this element of disclosure with a capital D. And what I've heard time and time again throughout the making of the film is people kind of inputting what they think is going to be a result of what's going to happen in the States is don't look for disclosure with a capital D, look for disclosure with a small D. Well, explain that.
And so what happens is the preponderance of evidence continues to build.
It continues to be more compelling.
And finally, I think that there's going to be this general attitude.
And I think it's really almost here, where you have a general attitude that people have accepted that, yes, we are being visited by metal craft.
Yes, they're coming from off-planet.
What their motivations are, who knows.
But you find more and more and more people willing to accept that that has to be not only a possibility, but a probability.
And so it's not going to happen in one flash moment where everybody comes to this realization and then it's commonplace, you know, short of a craft landing on the White House.
And I don't even know if that would do it, to be quite honest with you.
Yeah, I mean, people are so desensitized to some of the things from what we see every day.
So I think people are looking for disclosure with a little D, which is to say there will be this preponderance of evidence that will get stronger and stronger, harder and harder to refute.
And then finally, you'll have a generation of people growing up just from the very beginning believing that, oh, yeah, absolutely, we're being visited by Metalcraft for sure.
It was, I mean, I took a job as an over-the-road truck driver just so I could get into these different cities where I could actually research this stuff.
This is when I was much younger.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
I mean, driving through the desert at night, you know, looking out the window or, you know, driving through New Orleans and making a stop.
Instead of sleeping, a lot of times I'd spend my time going to these locations.
And I wasn't misusing the company's resources.
I was doing it on my own time.
But I mean, the desire has always been there.
And I did this for over a decade, 15 years, before I ever started doing anything that might in any shape, form, or fashion compensate me for it.
It's the thing I would do for free.
And so I went into engineering because I was good at it, had a knack for it.
It was during the technology boom in Atlanta.
And so they were hiring mostly just anybody.
And so I got on the ground floor of ADSL Technology, Fast Access Internet, and I helped implement that.
But every time, I was the guy who was using up my vacation time in January because as soon as it rolled around, I was planning these trips and going to these places.
And Savannah just always kept calling to me.
I mean, every time I went there, there was something.
The most compelling thing that's ever happened to me, and there hasn't been a lot of things, but the most compelling one that's ever happened happened in Savannah.
And it was when I went down there to do a scouting trip.
I wanted to do some filming and interview some people.
And so I brought a photographer with me, and we pulled into Savannah.
It was in January, which is a really good time to go because the owners of these inns and bars and places have time to talk to you.
So we go down there, we schedule some interviews, it's broad daylight.
And when we get to Bay Street, which is one of the main streets there, we are waiting on one of the shops to open, and I've got a free map in my hand, so I sit down on a bench.
And as I'm sitting there, the photographer wants to go kind of scout the area.
And she's about 5'2 ⁇ , maybe 105 pounds, very petite.
And she has on this baby blue scarf and this baby blue hat.
I guess you call it a bowler maybe.
Very distinctive.
And there were some tunnels right behind us, you know, 40, 50 yards away.
And she's small enough she could get through the bars of the tunnel.
And she said, I'm going to go check that out.
If I'm not back in 15 minutes, come and get me.
And I said, okay.
She said, no, I'm serious.
Come and get me if I'm not back in 15 minutes.
So I watch her walk down there, grab her camera, you know, as she's going through the bars, you know, and I see her slink away.
She's gone.
And I'm sitting there looking at the map, and a trolley to my left turns onto bay.
And as I'm sitting there watching it go by, I see in my peripheral vision, I see that baby blue bowler from behind a live oak.
And I turn and look, and it's her peeking out about, you know, one quarter of her body, you know, middle of the chest up.
She's looking from behind the live oak, and she's smiling at me.
And, you know, she's a fairly serious, kind of stoic person.
You wouldn't really expect her to be doing something like that.
And so I looked at her and I said, what are you doing?
And she, no comment, no expression, just that same smile.
But I've always described the smile as a forgery.
It was obvious that whatever was doing this was something that had never experienced smile muscles.
So it didn't know how to portray it.
So it was a semblance of a smile.
And I watched this thing start to lose its ability to hold its form.
And as it started to, when I saw that start to happen, I saw the face, the smile start to melt.
And she slinks back almost like a snake behind the live oak.
And I felt everything around me get cold and electric.
And I'm Watching this happen completely subjected to my experience.
I won't get up off the bench and look behind the live oak.
I mean, this is broad daylight, and I'm sitting there like a scared kid.
And I glance to my right, and I see her making that same move, coming back through the bars and holding the camera, but she's coming back up towards me.
And when she walks up the hill and looks at me, she said that I am just completely porcelain, just white-skinned, just pope-eyed, basically.
And I'm very subjected to my experience.
I couldn't talk about it with her for a couple of hours.
I couldn't talk about it with the rest of the world for over a year.
And I didn't put it in print until I started blogging and eventually wrote the book.
But I didn't go back to Savannah for almost a year after that because I was kind of – And I know other people out there are going, oh, come on.
These things, when they happen to you, kind of send you into a state of shock.
I've had a couple of them happen.
I'm not going to reash them, but they do send you into a state of shock.
And so I completely understand that you sort of shut down for a while, but eventually it works on you, and you want to be able to talk about what happened to you.
I eventually ended up speaking to a gentleman who was part of a voodoo village north of Savannah called Oyotunji.
And I relayed the experience to him in trust because we became friends.
And he told me that I had experienced what is referred to what we would call me, what we would call a shapeshifter, what they call a hag.
And he said the two or three favorite forms of this thing is it'll usually take the form of someone you love or are close to, or of a little girl, or of a white cat.
Now, what the logic is behind that, I don't know.
But he said those are the three things how it usually comes to you.
And I asked him, why does it come to you?
And he said, typically it's because these things are said to live off the unhappiness of people.
They're psychic vampires of sorts.
And that's where you start moving usually into some of these night attacks with these black shadow figures, if you will.
And he said, usually it's because they are identifying you as a potential victim or host.
And I didn't reveal this to him.
I've never revealed it to anyone.
But I did have something extremely traumatic that had happened to me a few weeks before I went down there.
And I'm not one to be depressed, but I was in the depths of probably some of the worst depression I've ever been in when I was in Savannah when it happened.
In your view, Tobias, are there a lot when you look at these things that people see, and we call them ghosts or apparitions or whatever, how many of them by percentage, if you can even guess, turn out to be negative or terrifying?
I mean, anything like that, I guess, is terrifying.
But when I say negative, I mean, I don't know, glowing red eyes has always been really negative for me.
Growing eyes.
You know, something that gives it a real negative.
As far as what gets reported, as far as what gets sold and written about and told, the vast majority of that seems to be negative, but I think that that's really only because that's what sells.
But as far as what happens when you actually talk to people and people that will wait till no one's looking or listening and say, you know, well, there was this one time.
And then they'll give you this experience that they had.
And I would say overwhelmingly, usually those experiences I would not consider threatening or negative because it usually has something to do with a family member or a lost loved one or someone that they're not able to identify, but they regard as a protective element in their life.
I mean, even people that are confronted with a lost loved one, in Their estimation.
They are extremely subjected to their experience.
I mean, they usually are met with denial and disbelief that it even happened.
And that's one of the reasons why they don't talk about it, because they don't have that concrete belief that it was real.
They can't accept it.
And so not only does it, it does something worse than fear in some ways.
It completely subjects you to your experience and makes it so that you can't really adequately process it.
And that's something we all need is closure.
Everybody wants answers.
We can deal with fear.
Fear comes and goes.
But when you don't have closure, when you don't have answers, when something happens one time and never happens again, that usually will eat at somebody for their entire life.
We're going to take this opportunity to get James Fox on the line, who will join us as we talk about, well, that stuff.
You know, the other stuff.
From the high desert, the great American Southwest, this is Dark Matter.
I'm Mark Bell.
All right, coming up, James Fox, who is a director.
James was born in England.
He was raised in New York and California.
He began his journalism career early in life as an assistant to father, writer, Charles Fox, a quadriplegic with multiple sclerosis.
Together, they traveled on many magazine assignments from Get This Rolling Stone, Car and Driver, to Sports Illustrated.
James finished and sold his first documentary to Discovery by the time he was 28.
He has since completed five films for the likes of Sci-Fi and the History Channel, and has made frequent appearances on Larry King, Nightline, Dateline, Anderson Cooper, and others.
His latest film on UFOs, I Know What I Saw, is being distributed by A ⁇ E and Content Films International.
James, welcome to the program, and I love the title, I Know What I Saw.
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I was to the way you said it, it really, you feel it.
Yeah, well, basically, you know, you've got the vast majority, and we've all been over this one, but we've got the vast majority of UFO cases that can and have been explained down to our conventional terms.
Then you've got that very stubborn, you know, 5, 10, up to 15% of cases that simply cannot.
And then the Air Force was, you know, having that same difficulty when they started their investigation or their public relations program from 48 to 69 with Project Sign and Grudge and eventually leading to Project Blue Book.
12,618 cases investigated, out of which 701 remained unexplained.
And a lot of those cases, like Secora, New Mexico in 1964, were truly inexplicable, very, very compelling, unambiguous encounters.
I've been on the air all my life, so this is really a hard question, but I was at KDWN in Las Vegas, and I was doing a kind of a political show, and one day I said to myself and everybody else, I'm getting sick to death of this.
I mean, I had been on the mid-80s, and what date that was, somebody will have to tell me.
I don't remember.
It was, you know, it sort of morphed into it slowly.
So there was no exact date when it happened.
When I did that show with John Lear, the reaction was incredible.
And I was working at the time for some very, very conservative people who owned that radio station.
And when they heard me start talking to John Learn about UFOs and all the rest of it, they became apoplectic.
I mean, there was just no consoling them.
You just can't do it.
And I went ahead and did it anyway, almost got fired.
And so I began slowly integrating more and more of it in, and I would end up, you know, like going to the principal's office, in the boss's office, getting reamed out until the first survey came in, and we were number one by such a large margin that everything else was hardly even mentioned in terms of other radio stations.
And if it wasn't for a handful of people like yourself, I wouldn't have done what I ended up doing because that piqued my interest at a time, it's sort of an influential time in my life.
And I produced, I was very fascinated with your nighttime radio, and I listened to you all the time.
And there was an exciting, very exciting time.
You know, it was approaching the 50th anniversary of the Roswell incident.
I remember you had all kinds of exciting whistleblowers coming on board.
It was a really, really exciting time.
And I got involved with, decided to make my first film on the subject of UFOs.
And I remember my father's a mainstream journalist, and him just saying, son, what are you doing?
And anyway, long story short, I produced my first documentary called UFO's 50 Years Denial, and I sold it to Discovery Channel.
And I thought that was it for me.
I was really excited.
And it did fairly well.
And you had me on very, very briefly, I think in 97 or 98 or something right around there.
It was like a 15-minute call-in thing.
And you talked a little bit about it.
But in any case, and then I thought I'd never do another UFO film again.
I just thought I could have been there, done that.
And then, I don't know, you want me to bore you to death with the rest of the details, but I got invited to go to Russia, and it just sort of escalated from there.
And every time I said I'm not doing another film, I did another film.
And each time it got better, and I got better access to witnesses, and that's how it all came about.
I didn't really have a plan on 20 years later still making documentaries on UFOs, but here we are.
The success of the film 50 Years of Denial, I got contacted by a guy in Russia, and he said, hey, we'd really like to broadcast your film in Russia, but we don't have any money.
Can we have it for free?
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And I said, well, gosh, I worked really hard on it for about four years.
And thinking, my, I really took a gamble on this one, but that guy delivered, and he got us into the Star City Russia, and we had a small camera crew, and that was the birth of Out of the Blue.
So there were 200 school children playing on recess.
It was 10.30 a.m.
1994.
And there was a flash of light that some of the school children saw, ages ranging between 8 and 11 years old.
These are children that all speak perfect English, a lot of which with British accents.
They're white children, black children, all ethnicities.
And they see a flash of light in the sky.
And the next thing you know, in an adjacent field, there's what's described as, I don't think they use the word disc, but it's your quintessential looking flying saucer.
But in any case, a lot of the material, or most all the material, was left with Randall Nickerson.
The MAC Institute had left this material, and he's been working on a documentary film about this particular incident since 2006, I believe, 2005, 2006.
And I had been, I met him at the National Press Club event I did with Leslie Kane back in 2007, and I found out he was working on this case.
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I know that Steven Spielberg has been fascinated by this case.
And I said, my gosh, you've got all those archive interviews, Randall?
Yeah, and he said, well, I'm doing this documentary, and I've been working on it, and I've been tracking down all the witnesses.
You know, there were 200 cool children on the scene.
Everybody thinks it was 62 kids, but it was actually more like 200 because the 62 number came from how many of the kids actually drew drawings of the beans and the craft.
But there were a lot more, and there's so many complexities to the case that people aren't aware of.
And there was a BBC correspondent there on the scene, I think, within a day or two.
And long story short, I finally got him to participate because it's only going to be one of the many segments in the 701 feature, documentary feature.
And so we have managed to get five minutes of the archive interviews, the drawings, and then we just recently, just a couple, just last week, we flew in four of the witnesses from Australia, Canada, and the UK, who came in and had a, for the first time in 20 years, had a reunion.
And it just so happens by pure coincidence that these women that were 11 years old at the time, we set up a little roundtable for the interview because I thought, wouldn't it be nice to get these women to interact?
And I gave them all drawing pads now they're 29, 30 years old to get them for the first time in 20 years to interact with each other, talk about what they'd remembered.
And it just so happens that the two women on one side of the table, Liesel and Emily, happened to be standing next to each other during the encounter.
And the other two women on the other side of the table that we flew in, Emma and I'll think of her first name in a second, were standing next to each other during the sighting as well.
And I always assumed through some of the video footage, and there's not a lot of details of this case known, that it was more of a distant, you know, the beings came within arm's reach of some of these witnesses.
So they had this incredible, they talk about the eye, and this is broad daylight, and there are, you know, 200 school children standing in the playground during this time.
The images that were, and having these women now, they could articulate better than when they were really young, 11 years old, they were trying to articulate that experience.
But it came through, the communication was all through the eyes of these beings.
And the beings were rather small, three and a half, four feet tall, which was about the size of the kids at that time.
And also, yeah, and they sent images of destruction and that we have to take better care of our environment and the planet.
That was the message was we're not being good stewards of the planet.
And that looking at these beings, and you could see it in these, there's not a shred of doubt in anyone's mind when you listen to the testimony of these school children and then hear them talk about it now.
One of the women that we flew out from Australia, been married five years, never told her husband about it.
They've been having some of the, some of these women have been having dreams.
They said that one of the unfortunate things was that there was this flurry of media interest Right after the case, BBC and a bunch of other local news media, and they took these children in and they, you know, they questioned them, they extracted information out of them, and then they never really gave them any therapy or told them how to deal with it.
So they've been left on their own all these years and just dying to talk about it and to process it.
Well, they all had, okay, so there's a field, a rather large playing field for the school children.
This is in Africa.
And at the end of the field, the field of play for the children, there were these logs that define the perimeter of the school playground.
And the children knew they could not go beyond that boundary.
There was an adjacent field where the craft was landed and the beans came to.
And it was funny because the children knew inherently they couldn't go beyond those logs.
And the beans, according to the children, didn't go into their zone.
So the children stood right on the threshold of as far as you can go without violating, you know, without going beyond.
And that's where the beans came right up to the edge.
And that's where the interaction took place.
And one of the girls, Emily had talked about, she was standing, I think, next to this girl, Liesel, and I got all their full names, but said that they wanted, they were interested.
She said they were interested in us.
And I said, interested?
Like, how are they interested?
Well, we started to go with them, and I was almost in this trance.
And Liesl started to, they were standing next to each other, started to make a gesture as though she was going to go with them and put her hand out to go with them.
And she said she snapped out of her little trance and realized this might not be such a good idea.
Okay, so they had tight-fitting, what they described are wetsuits for divers.
So that's the way the children, the only thing the children had known, so they had these tight-fitting suits, spindly arms, spindly legs.
They hovered.
Apparently they didn't walk, but they hovered.
And didn't really get a good description of the hands.
But the big eyes, they all, every single one of them kept saying the eyes were this black, like you haven't seen any kind of black that tapered off very large almond-shaped eyes.
And the darkness of those eyes.
And slits for mouths, very small noses, if noses at all, and little slits.
And all the communication was done through the eyes.
And they were about three and a half to four feet tall, according to the witnesses.
And they had these black, tight-fitting, what they described as like a wetsuit that you'd go diving in, like tight-fitting suit that with these very large eyes, like I said, a slit for a mouth, and I think the same for a nose.
This is a really, really significant sighting when you get 200 children involved in seeing what you're telling me they saw.
And I know that John Mack was hot on this, and I know he was deeply into it and had done a lot.
At the time that you mentioned that he looked perhaps not the right way and crossed the road, look, I'm not a conspiracy person, despite what people may think because of the job I do.
I'm not as convinced that John Mack didn't look both ways before he crossed the road.
I'm sorry.
I think people have been shut up that do this kind of work.
I don't know if either one of you tonight have any stories to relate.
Now that you're into the 701 thing, you may well find out sooner than later that somebody will come and, at the very least, talk to you.
I think people are talked to, and if they don't keep their mouths shut, I think some of them are killed.
We had a very interesting thing revealed for the first time ever.
You know, Kenneth Arnold, right?
Very famous sighting, you know, the Kenneth Arnold.
Well, we had his daughter, Kim Arnold, which was quite an effort to get her to come out and go on camera and share these incredible memorabilia that her father had kept in the family vault for all these years and that she had so diligently kept track of and when she moved into the family house.
And she kept all the correspondence between the Air Force and her father, the photographs the Air Force had shared with her father, saying, look, the invitations that he got to these Air Force bases in 49, and then this whole pamphlet that apparently Kenneth Arnold had put together for a presentation he was going to do.
He was going to go on speaking tour.
And he got a visit by someone in the Air Force, and we didn't know about this until his daughter just shared this with us on camera, and his life was threatened.
Like, basically, they didn't say we're going to kill you, but the way they said it was, you do this, and there's consequences to pay, and that was that.
Well, you know, and to that point as well, you know, Don Schmidt, who's working with us on this film, as I guess, a creative consultant, you know, I had a very unusual experience since I've been dealing with this, and I'm kind of with you, Art.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
But when I took the gear out for the first shoot, and we landed at LAX, we were out there for about a week.
And when we came back, it's not unusual when you have those pelican cases full of all this gear, we have locks on them.
So we fully expect, they weren't TSA-approved locks.
So we fully expected they're probably going to crack the locks on us.
We'll have to replace them, whatever.
So sure enough, on the way out there, they had cracked the locks, done their thing, and no big deal.
Well, while we're out there, I began talking to Clifford Stone, who's an absolutely amazing researcher with all kinds of documents that would rival anyone's collection.
And while I'm there, he gives me these D-Class documents, these FOIA documents, that are very compelling.
And he says, take them back, look them over.
If you want to come out west next month, you can come to the house.
I've got 5 million documents.
I'll walk you through it.
I'm like, sure, absolutely.
I want to be there.
And he said, you know, but keep these safe.
Not a lot of people know about them.
He said, just hold on to them.
So I put these documents inside the suitcase, underneath all my stuff, flew back to Savannah.
And on the way back, we actually used TSA-approved locks, trying to avoid getting them cut.
Well, when I get back, the locks are completely gone off of the luggage.
I open up the case where my clothes and my documents are, which wasn't even locked.
And when I open it up, the files that Clifford had given me, and this is from Cambodia, Vietnam, that kind of stuff, are laying on top of my clothes, which I thought was odd.
But then when I open the file, I see the TSA document inside the folder on top of the files.
And every person I have ever talked to, including Don Schmidt, because I told him about this, anytime that happens, they put that TSA form on top of your belongings, and to the best of their ability, they put them back how they found it.
But it was stuck inside the folder on top of a D-Class document about enemy helicopters, code name enemy helicopters, in Cambodia and Vietnam, sitting right on top of those documents when we came back.
And Don Schmidt said, go ahead and get used to that.
He even remarked that his hotel room at one point had been broken into while he was actually doing an investigation.
So I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but yeah, I completely agree.
Well, there's a reason he's dead, and that reason in my mind is not that he didn't look both ways.
We're adults.
When you're in a foreign country, trust me, you look both ways before you cross the street because you're not familiar with the traffic and all the rest of it.
You're just...
It's my opinion that John Mack was killed.
There it is, out on the table.
Gentlemen, we've got Tobias McGriff and James Fox with us.
Any thoughts, either one of you, on what about this case or any case that we could discuss?
And for example, Sparks was on last night.
I had Sparks on last night.
He described exactly what you just described in terms of a message that was given to him and to the schoolchildren.
It was the same message.
Any idea what would be so inflammatory, so fiery that it would be worth killing somebody for?
Well, I think that, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I guess I have to keep disclaiming that.
I feel like I do anyway, but I don't believe that the government, most any government, but I don't believe ours, trusts us with that kind of information.
And it's gotten really easy for, or much easier for people like what we're doing now, other folks that are doing similar things.
It's gotten much easier to get your hands on information, to document that information, to disseminate that information.
I mean, we are still in the information age.
And I think that when you are putting things like that out, you are talking about a loss of control from an entity that is built upon the premise of keeping control.
And I think that with something, with a question this big that could have these kinds of implications that could point to a higher power, and I don't mean a spiritual one, but like a metal craft higher power that would far eclipse any of the power of the governments of the world.
I think you're looking, like you said, you're going to get talked to.
And if I can just share this really quick, something that, and James is familiar with this, I've been very, very private about this particular thing.
But when I obtained the equipment for us to film the documentary part of 701, I had had this equipment for two days.
Well, and not only that, but the collective of people that we have on this.
I mean, when we go from folks like Colonel John Alexander All the way down to Nick Pope.
I mean, we could just go on and on.
When you have that many people that are willing to go on record, you have cutting-edge equipment, you have people that are in it for the right reasons, that know where to look, that know what to do and how to disseminate it, then I think you're going to get looked at.
And two days after I purchased this equipment, I decided on a hunch that I was going to let my DP borrow the equipment.
I was very like, I mean, I have to really trust this guy to let him borrow this equipment.
I agreed to do it.
So he was shooting a national spot for something, nothing to do with what we're doing.
So the equipment wasn't in my home.
I left, and I live in a really safe, nice neighborhood, and I left my home for two hours.
I mean, I'm here all the time.
I left for two hours.
Someone had broken into the house.
They had taken a suction to the front glass of the front door, and they had pulled it outward.
So these are not amateurs.
These are not kids.
I mean, I don't know of any kids that walk around with that kind of device.
They had pulled the glass out of the frame.
They had gotten into the house.
And the only thing they had done was opened all of the pelican cases where the equipment would have been.
It wasn't there.
It wasn't there.
I had just gotten insurance less than 24 hours before.
How does that look?
You go take out that kind of insurance and all of a sudden you've got to break in.
How's that going to look?
So they popped through all the pelican cases and they took my passport.
That was the only thing missing out of my house.
And this is just as we're getting started.
So what do I think would be the motivation to kill someone?
I didn't start having problems.
When I'm talking about the paranormal, no problem.
When I start talking about this and putting an eye on it, all of a sudden the house is getting broken into.
TSA flyers put inside my folder of documents about, you know, things, because they were calling, according to Clifford, they were calling these UFOs enemy helicopters, and they have them recorded at moving at speeds of up to 1,200 miles an hour.
And when you get something as clear and unambiguous as what happened in even though it's in Africa, because it's in Africa, you know, it's so easy for people across the United States to kind of write it off, Africa, oh, Africa, yeah, right.
But this involved 200 children.
It involved communication with these children.
It involved clear, unambiguous sightings.
So I think that it was big enough that they were afraid, as you just pointed out.
And there are other things you can talk about, like religion and other institutions that just would be in big trouble.
But I think it's loss of control.
I think that's exactly right.
I think our government doesn't have the first clue how to control this information.
And he first of all said, you know, if any of the accounts are to be believed, then there's nothing in the United States Air Force or the military that he knows of, categoric sweeping statement, nothing that could be accounted for these machines that are reported since last 65, 70 years.
Absolutely nothing.
Then he said, you know, if these reports were to be believed, and if, you know, as the Air Force has full control or theoretically full control of our airspace, if there's an unidentified something that would not identify itself, jets would be scrambled.
And if they were unable to intercept, unable to determine what that was, that would be remain classified.
So he said that.
So then I, towards the end of the interview, because I didn't want to scare him off, I said, well, what about Roswell?
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And I thought he would just say, oh, sh, you know, nothing.
Now, going back for a second, because this is really interesting.
You guys were talking about threats and government threats and that sort of thing.
This is interesting.
And I know this to be a fact.
So the first military officer who was on the scene after Lonnie Zamora's April 24th, 1964 sighting of that landed egg-shaped object with the four laming gear and the so-called beans.
And he said to his buddy, you've got to do this story on the Secora, New Mexico case.
It's fairly unknown.
It was a really, really solid case as part of Project Blue Book.
It was a turning point case for Dr. J.L.N. Hynek, the scientific advisor of Project Blue Book.
This is a seminal UFO, close encounter of the third kind as Project Blue Book files.
And you've got to do a story.
So they did.
And one of the people that came out of the shadows was Richard T. Holder.
And if you watch the segment, you can Google it, you'll see Richard T. Holder appear.
Remember, he was the first one on site.
First military officer on site.
Well, he did plaster casts of the landing gear of the craft as well as the imprints from the aliens' footprints.
And there were elements of this whole thing, this whole case, that he was going to reveal for the first time ever in 1994 as part of Unsolved Mysteries.
And I know this because I've been in touch with his two sons that are going to go on the record for 701 for the first time ever.
And they told me that right before he was to go on camera for Unsolved Mysteries, he got a phone call that reminded him of his security clearances and scared the bejesus out of him.
Basically threatened his life if he went all the way with what he was intended to do.
He intended to go all the way with this case and reveal for the first time in history what the Air Force really knew.
That they had concrete physical evidence that totally substantiated Lonnie Zamora's claims of extraterrestrials, of these beings being there.
And there were other witnesses as well and what the Air Force's conclusions actually were.
And so he gets thrust into this situation that he didn't want to be in.
Other people might kill to be in that situation.
Well, he is getting all this pressure from all these different sources.
He ends up leaving the police department, and eventually he gets so tired of listening to everybody's different version, he ends up managing a gas station.
And I think he died in 2009, James.
Is that right?
It's just a soul station.
Yeah, 2009, 2009 of a heart attack.
But his wife is still alive.
And I would love, you know, I'm trying I would love to make that happen where we could actually go to Secora, maybe even talk to Paul Hardin, and actually talk to Lonnie Zamora's wife and kind of get her take on it as well.
I mean, this is an example of a man whose life was basically ruined by something he had absolutely no control over.
And James has a really good story about how what he thought were the children that he saw ties into this.
Yeah, just before you do, again, what struck me about what you said with respect to the children and the communication that went on resonates with so many others that have had some sort of communication with what they regarded as extraterrestrials.
The message was the same.
The appearance of the extraterrestrials was described the same way again and again and again and again.
Now, if people are out there making up stories, they're doing an awfully good job of being coordinated.
Oh, well, one of the things is Lonnie Zamora, when he first saw this landed object, he thought it was an overturned car that had spun off the road, and there were two children, injured children, standing next to it.
And as he approached, he was off-road in the dirt at this point on a dirt road.
As he got closer and closer to this object, he realized that it was not an overturned car and that those were not children.
And he crept up on it in his patrol car, and he got direct eye contact with one of these entities who appeared startled.
He was doing something to the outside of the craft, and he appeared startled and kind of jumped when they got eye contact.
And then Lonnie sped up forward to go get a closer look.
At that point, he was about 300 feet, roughly 300 feet away from the object, and then he got, I think, roughly about 100 feet closer to the object.
And the reason why I know a lot of these details is I just went and spent about 10 days with a gentleman named Ray Stanford, who wrote a book about the incident that's called Socorro Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry.
And he had kept, this guy is the most meticulous researcher I've ever met.
And a lot of people have certain issues with some of his research techniques, but his book is thought to be one of the best, most accurate documentations of this case.
And so one of the things that happened is that when, and we know this now through Richard Holder's two sons that I'm talking with now, that Richard T. Holder got on the scene and he said, all right, two things.
One, there was a symbol on the outside of the craft, and he said, we need to obfuscate this symbol because if it gets out, this symbol gets out and then other people can create hoaxes.
But if we internalize this symbol within just the investigative arm of the Air Force or the military, and then we put out a different symbol that's different, then we'd know immediately if there are other hoax cases claiming to see the same symbol, which I thought was a rather good idea, right?
Then the other thing they asked him to do, the Air Force really wanted him to play down the fact that he saw beings.
So what they said was, why don't you say you saw?
This is so ridiculous.
And if anyone out there has seen the movie, there's a documentary film that was done by Alan Sandler and Bob Ebeneger called UFOs, Past, Present, or Future.
They were filming, I think, in 1972, and they had unprecedented access to all these secret military installations, NORAD, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
And one of the cases they covered back in the early 70s was the Corruption New Mexico case.
And, you know, Quintania from Project Blue Book was there, and they stuck to the story there, too, that he saw two pairs of white overalls on clotheslines.
Okay, so that went from seeing beans to that, which is total hogwash.
Because when I went to the National Archives just recently, there were not only descriptions of the beans, but from the United States.
We've got to take a break here, gentlemen, so hold on, please.
And when we get back, I want to hear those descriptions.
The Socorro beings.
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CT Witness, I'm Art Bell, and this is Dark Matter raging in the night.
The lines are not yet open.
We've got so much to do here.
Tobias McGriff and James Fox are my guests.
And when we said we had the good stuff for you tonight, that was no joke.
Just before we get back to James, Tobias, I would like to have you repeat for everybody the website.
I mean, this is a man who, along with Jimmy Carter, saw what he saw, and he knows what he saw.
You've got video of that and of him talking about it, and you have put it up tonight along with your book, which you're very generously giving away.
We don't get guests very often that ever give away a book, but it's actually up there for download.
And all this is on a website that you have called what?
So the book is absolutely free, but the video is startling and right in the middle of what we're talking about right now.
We have great time or maybe after, whatever, for people to watch this video and get a sense of the impact that this sighting had on this man along with Jimmy Carter.
And obviously it was tongue-in-cheek and it was dumb and loved by a lot of people that really respect you.
And so it was a group effort.
And we wanted to have something special for your folks that were listening.
When I'm not on your show, I'm a listener.
So it was just one of those things where I always thought it would be cool if somebody just got on there and didn't have anything they were trying to hawk and was just giving it away.
Slightly larger heads, but he didn't see them really well.
But they looked like children, spindly, short.
And the reason why he knew their size, because they were standing right next to a bush, and they knew exactly the height of the bush, because he went and measured the height of the bush.
And they were just, I think, below that height of the bush.
So they were about just under four feet tall, spindly, with tight-fitting white jumpsuits on and nothing from the neck up and no hair.
Can I read you a document that we just found out of the National Archives?
It came directly out of Project Plump Files.
This is really neat because it shows kind of a level of panic that was going on internally during this whole fiasco.
And that is, you know, a lot of times when you have these very unambiguous UFO encounters, especially with someone who's credible as a police officer, the Air Force, according to Dr. J. Ellen Hynek, who was the scientific advisor to Project Blue Book, later in the years he gave interviews to saying that the Air Force would jump handsprings to prevent the news media from, but this got out ahead of time and the Air Force was unable to put the lid on it.
This is the letter, and I'll read it directly.
It came from, it's to the United Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio to RUCD something headquarters.
And it says, numerous inquiries concerning Air Force investigation and evaluation of the recent UFO sighting at Socorro, New Mexico, 24th April, continue to be received from news media, from the Office of the President, and members of Congress.
This headquarters is unable to respond properly pending receipt of your conclusions.
Requests appropriate action be taken immediately to ensure that reports of personnel assigned to investigate and evaluate the sighting be completed and forwarded immediately and then BT.
So basically what they're saying is, what do we tell these people?
And it's just been going on for years and years and years And years, and until we get a couple of people like you on the air who are willing to sort of come back and rehash this along with other witnesses that we've had, it just becomes, it all starts to fall into place.
And so it brings me back again to what could be serious enough for them to take a life over it.
And I believe they have taken lives.
So I've chewed this over for a long time, and I think one of the things is that, well, you said it, lack of control, but it actually goes well beyond that.
If there are aliens, and if they have anything to do with how we got here, then you've really got a problem.
In other words, if we didn't come here exactly as the Bible says, as our Bible told us, if we got here through some other means, then the disruption to society and to so many important institutions around the world would be unsustainable.
I mean, obviously, I'm not a fan of the government being shut down right now, but I know people that don't know what they're going to do because the national park is closed.
I mean, imagine what would happen if you said your belief system is turned upside down.
Or if we had a belief that they were so far advanced that if there was an oppressive government, we had a higher power that we could appeal to that was in metalcraft with technology that could inflict change.
We could make an appeal to them.
If you start putting that kind of decision-making power into the hands of the masses, I just don't.
And another thing, and this may sound callous, but I really believe this.
We talk about it from the perspective of what could be so pressing or great that a government or an entity would be willing to kill over it.
I don't think something has to be really impressive or great for them to kill over it.
I think they'll kill over stuff fairly easily.
We've fought battles and wars that there was really nothing to gain for it.
And we were willing to let many people die because of it.
So I think taking one person out of the game to stop a question that big, yeah, absolutely.
I don't think they would blink an eye, whoever they are.
Probably about six months after that, I was working, as a friend of mine had a catering company in the Bay Area, and I was working a party at Opus One Winery that was a fundraising event for the Republican Party.
And the Speaker of the House at the time was there who was pressing charges against Clinton during his sexual peccadillas.
Come on, guys, help me here.
This is the 90s Speaker of the House Republican Party.
But it was this look he gave me like, don't ask those questions.
You don't know what you're doing, kid.
And he just kind of move on.
And I always suspected because about a year before that, I was doing an interview in a hotel room in Washington, D.C., and I was just the cameraman for an NSA guy.
And I was setting up the camera, the lights, and he just started talking.
I had no real interest in what he was doing.
I was just operating the camera.
And I started setting up stuff.
And he said, you know, kid, I'm going to tell you something.
And I kind of listened, you know, discreetly.
He says, one of the things he said was, we don't put bullets in people anymore nowadays.
Yeah, so I mean, but I do find it odd, especially when James talks about the preponderance of evidence.
When you put that against so many other people that have all of a sudden developed cancer, when they start digging into these kinds of things, you have to wonder.
I'm convinced it's going to happen with the people.
I mean, I went and handed out copies of Out of the Blue back in 2005 or 2006 to each and every member of the House.
I tried to get to the Senate, but I got to the House.
And I had the opportunity to talk with, I thought that, you know, maybe we could get congressional hearings like we had in 66, 68.
And what I learned was that there was a level of interest, more so with the Republican Party than with the Democratic Party, with the UFO phenomenon.
But pretty much across the board, they all said, and I spoke mostly with chief of staff, but I did speak with a few congressmen at the time and women, is that there's no way in hell there are going to be congressional hearings or that they're going to start putting pressure unless they hear from their constituents.
So the best thing for us to do, and Art, you're obviously the best at it than anybody else, but the best thing for us citizens to do is to get the information out there in a way that can be, you know, obviously entertainment, but also information, in documentaries and feature films to inform the people on what's really going on.
Because when you hear of a landing case in Beans, like the Sikhor, New Mexico case, on its own, you think, you know, the general guy, the Joe Public thinks, boy, that's a pretty outrageous thing.
But when you actually, like, put that case and you couple with the Rua Zimbabwe case and the Virginia case and all these other cases across the world and the United States of America, you start to see a pattern.
You start to see like, well, then they start becoming more and more credible, more and more believable.
Wow, this isn't just something, you know, Crackpot, you know, from Arkansas seeing.
This is something that's happening across the planet.
And I think if you can put together enough good evidence and sift through the crazy and the compelling, that's why we had the Title 701, those stubborn cases, those unambiguous cases.
And Varginha is roughly, I think, three, four hours north of Sao Paulo.
And when I first heard about the case, I heard about it in the late 90s.
I know Stanton Friedman had gone there right after it happened.
And Roger Lear had been there as well and even wrote a book on it.
But I remember, I don't know, for some reason, hearing aliens wandering around in a town and being seen by these people in the village, it just seemed really far-stretched for me.
But when I got invited to go and do a short little presentation in Brazil a couple of years ago, a very good friend of mine who's in the TV industry, I'll just say his name, Jeff Sagansky.
He's former head of TriStar Pictures.
He said, James, you've got to investigate the Virginia case.
And I started, oh, come on.
He goes, no, man, I really think there's something to it.
So long story short, I did.
And there were witnesses, the wee hours of the morning, that reported a craft at UFO in distress that apparently looked as though it was going down.
It was shaped like a large van, had no wings, no tail, didn't make any noise.
It had sparks coming Off the back of it, and apparently, there were other witnesses talking about a debris field of where the impact site was.
And the following day, there were witnesses in the town, and I think it's up to 100 at this point, that saw these creatures.
But there was no creatures and craft, there were creatures.
And these creatures were about, and I spoke directly with the witnesses, the three schoolgirls that saw these creatures, and I talked to the military officers, the friends that had handled one of them.
But they were roughly four feet tall.
They had skin that was like the skin on your liver, like an organ.
They were kind of greasy.
And that's the way it was described.
No hair.
They had these really spindly arms, spindly legs.
They appeared very feeble.
They appeared not to be aggressive.
They were spindly and feeble and seemed like they were having a hard time.
unidentified
They had these big red eyes and they had these ridges.
And as they're running off, they heard these construction workers on a roof saying, oh, boy, they must have seen the same creature we just saw.
So other people in the town were seeing them.
So you have witnesses describing a UFO in distress.
You have witnesses describing a debris field that the Army had secured.
And then you have at least 100, if not more, witnesses in the town of Arzenia that saw these creatures.
And then a flurry of activity in the local hospitals.
The entire town was cordoned off.
They had military trucks from all over had taken over the local hospitals.
And there were thousands and thousands of witnesses regarding that.
And when I went into the little town, I went to the town square in downtown Vargina, I just was asking random people on camera, hey, what do you know about the Vargina case?
And everyone had a story, like, oh, my cousin's brother, or my next-door neighbor, or my sister, you know, all had a story about this.
So it's a very, very solid case.
There were a lot of really reputable people.
Marco Petit, who's a Brazilian UFO researcher, A.J. Jayvard, A.J. Okay, well, you've said it yourself.
As we hear this description, yet another one, there begins to be a preponderance of evidence that if you fairly look at it, I think adds up to something gigantic.
I do have one question because I've got both of you here, Tobias, who has done so much in the paranormal, and you, James.
Do either one of you think that there is a connection between these sightings, between this interaction with what we're calling ETs, and the things that we regard as paranormal?
Or is it not possible to even tell the difference?
I mean, we're talking about working oftentimes with, you know, light and energy and dimensions and, you know, things that are impossible for us, very, you know, easy for them.
And that's one of the reasons I've kind of made the transition into looking at all things strange, if you will.
Because I think if I get pigeonholed into trying to explain all these events away as being just strictly paranormal or strictly metalcraft, off-planet metal craft, I think I'm going to miss the big picture.
And so I'm trying to take a body of evidence from all these different perspectives, hearing what everybody has to say, and then trying to come up with a theory.
And it's an early work for me, so I don't have many conclusions.
But I do have that hunch that was enough to get me involved in multiple genres to try to dig a little deeper.
Because the explanations that are being given, I mean, just going back to Vargenia for a moment, they eventually tried to pawn off that creature as being a homeless person that had lived in Vargenia.
The three girls that I interviewed, and here's the funny part, guys, is that when we went to Virginia last, I think it was last year, we brought in some local talent actually from Sao Paulo because of, you know, we brought in an audio tech guy and a lighting guy.
And just like Roswell in America, you know, they'd heard of it.
They'd heard of the Virginia case and they thought, oh, yeah, wasn't that explained away?
You know, they'd heard of it.
When we brought the two Brazilians, the audio guy and the lighting guy, along with our crew to interview some of these witnesses, they were dumbfounded gobsmacked by the testimony of some of these first-hand eyewitness testimonies.
And the girls said that the Air Force, I'm sorry, sorry, it was more of an Army affair, had approached the family and said, and it was very public, like the news media picked up on it really quickly, that if these girls would recant their story, and they told me this from their mouths to my ears,
that if they would recant their story and say that they made it all up, that it was actually something like exactly what Tobias is saying right now, they would all get very generously rewarded for it.
And end of story.
And all Of the girls refused to do that.
And it's actually caused, they're almost unemployable in the area.
And I'm just telling you what they told me because the level of ridicule that they received and the hardship that they received, and now even if they get a job, the problem is that they're hounded by media.
Like there's so many people trying to get interviews with them even today that it's disruptive to their job.
So they're just really, they're plagued by, they wish it would have never happened is what they're doing.
Back in 1975, they're talking about USO sighting, and I was just wondering if anybody had reported a USO that kind of looked like, if you remember the kids' game of Ball and Jack, I experienced seeing one that looked like that, and it spun around in the middle, and on each end had little different colored lights flashing.
And it was just above the treetops, and it was in September because I just went back to school.
Yeah, I'm familiar with what you're talking about.
Yeah, not specifically where you're talking about, but in Rome, Georgia, which is really close to you.
There were some sightings in Northwest as well.
It was primarily in southern Georgia.
I don't know about the, you talked about the Jacks, I'm not sure about that, but as far as the changing multicolored object, there were some sightings in 73 through 75 up around Rome, Georgia, which is about 30 miles from where you're talking about, as you said.
First, have any of you ever read the Celestine Prophecies?
I read parts of it.
You know, I think that really ties in a lot, too, with the investigations with the paranormal as well as the UFO aspect, just the entire change of concept.
But to follow that up, you know, I've heard each of you say tonight that you're not conspiracy nuts or you're not into the conspiracy thing.
Yet, you know, as I look back at our national histories, our world history, our governments have, whether monarchy or what, or even our government, they're plagued with secrecy, control of information, and manipulation of the media and the public.
You take it all the way back to the Indian Wars and up to the current with what's going on with the budget and all that.
They're not going to tell us the truth, because to do so gets back to what Art was talking about earlier.
It breaks down the fabric of our society.
It eliminates, it's not just a political, but as well as an economic problem.
But yeah, what you're talking about is when you step beyond that line for something this important, like the UFO question, the disclosure around this is, I think, larger than just closing the government or a secret military aircraft.
So, yeah, I guess I'm saying that I agree with you.
One of the things, the conclusions that I've drawn after, and I've only looked into this for, I think coming up on 20 years, is that the more I know, the more I realize I don't know, and the more I start to believe that the government doesn't know a lot either.
They know they're whizzing around our airspace with impunity.
They fly rings around our fastest jets.
You know, they do all these things, and yet maybe the biggest reason for secrecy is Colonel Coleman is former public relations officer for the United States Air Force.
unidentified
He was also his public spokesman for Project Blue Book.
We're on a grid system, so it spreads the traffic, but I mean, everything has a limit, and it looks like it's getting bombed because our Facebook page, I mean, we're getting killed with requests like, what was the website again, blah, blah, blah.
So I was going to ask you if I could just put it out there again.
No, and it's funny because a lot of times the explanation, the denial or the explanation given by the Air Force or the military is more hard to believe than the potential event itself.
I had an extensive interview with Travis, if that's what you're talking about.
unidentified
Yeah, I would just, you know, if y'all had interviewed him, what y'all thought about that and any information that y'all might story you might have to tell or from that interview?
Yeah, well, one of my partners, Tracy Torme, was responsible for the film Fire in the Sky.
And if any of you have seen that movie, you'll know that the ending of the film is not accurate.
It's not what Travis said happened.
And the frustration that Tracy went through with, I think it was Paramount Pictures, basically said, look, this is the way it's going to be, take it or leave it.
And so one of the ideas we had with 701 is let's set the record straight and let's get Travis back on camera and talk about what really happened after he was taken aboard the craft.
I met with some of the other witnesses that were there.
I went to Snowflake, Arizona.
I went to the actual location, I think, two years, a year ago.
And I absolutely think it's one of the best cases, one of the best.
And one of the things I remember just now the details of when he was trying to, when he came to and he woke up on the table, he thought he was in a hospital.
But then his eyes were slightly blurred and he slowly started to get his vision back and he realized there were no doctors that he'd ever seen before.
And of course, once again, he described the smaller beings.
But he said he was so weak that he was trying to hit them away from him, but he was swinging in slow motion.
I actually called you in the first week of your program.
This has been a great episode.
My question for your guests is this.
Within UFO mythology or lore, if you would, there's been stories about underground military bases.
And not only about these underground military bases, but there's a connecting network of tunnels.
Do you guys know anything about that?
I never really believed it, but I heard a story from someone very close to me in the Army that testified to the fact that there was an underground tunnel connecting Pittsburgh to a base in Ohio, the Ravenna Arsenal.
So I'm wondering if you guys know anything about that, if you've heard anything about that, and I appreciate your answer.
The only thing I can say that I firmly believe quite solidly is that there was a guy, Colonel Weinbrenner, who died just the last couple of years, who was head of foreign technology at Wright Pat.
And right before he died, and I only know this because I happened to be investigating a deathbed statement made by him, and it led me.
And basically what he said was that there was a crash, there were bodies recovered, and they were kept at an underground base in Dulce.
And that was a statement that he made to his nurse.
And I contacted the person that it went to, which is Bob Ebeneger.
But basically, I contacted Bob and said, Bob, why on earth would Colonel Weinbrenner, you know, on his deathbed, give a statement to his nurse to be given to you about a crash and bodies being kept in an underground base at Dulce?
I was investigating the deathbed statement for different reasons, but one of the things that Colonel Weinbrenner said to his nurse is there was an underground facility at Dulce where they were keeping bodies.
My see, I have never told this to anybody before because I thought I was nuts.
After hearing last night's program and hearing this stuff tonight, I don't think that I'm so nuts.
As a child, you know, I'm almost 50 years old, so there was no technology.
We had three channels like everybody else did.
And I remember being outside, and I was probably four or five years old, and when I looked up into the stars, there were three beams of light chasing each other across the sky.
And I went into the house and told my parents about what I saw and told him to come outside to see this.
By my parents, never to tell this story to anybody to school and started telling, you know, like school teachers and people like that.
Within three, four days, three older guys in black suits showed up listeningly telling me story to anybody because what I saw were stars in the sky.
And my question is, with last night's guest about these groups of people being transported up or pulled in or however you describe it, and then you have the gentleman on tonight of the young children in massive amounts of groups of people.
Look, we don't have any way of absolutely verifying that there's any connection between one thing and another thing.
We can only leave that to you.
You listen to the descriptions given at these various locations around the world, and if you don't begin to see the similarities between the cases, then I don't know what to say about you.
Florida brings Greg.
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, hi.
Good evening, guys.
My question relates to this control issue, basically.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't even think that we really even know our own human history.
And if we were to find out that, say, we were a seeded civilization from somewhere else or whatever, wouldn't that be a welcome fact to everyone?
All right, so in the South, you go on up into Georgia and some of those areas, and the Bible Belt.
And, you know, I'm sorry, I reacted to his question pretty severely, but I know what it's like.
Tobias, how do you think people would react in your area if all of a sudden they found out that we were seeded here by an alien group, an alien world, an alien culture?
They had triangles, I think, over Phoenix, but there was some triangle footage that came out of Fresno a couple of years ago, very impressive, actually.
That seemed to be a very large triangular-shaped platform.
And some people had said that it was something that the military was responsible for flying.
I'm not saying that all of them are, but I'm just saying that called the TR-3 or the TR-3B, something like this.
Just wanted to let you know I'm a big fan, new listener.
I have a question.
Back in, I guess, 93, I was wondering if Tobias had any reports of life.
I guess they look like stars.
I was working in Valdosta, Georgia on a construction site.
It was like 1 o'clock in the morning, and I looked up in the sky, and there's like three dots that look like stars up in the stars, but they would move really, really fast from like one to the east, to the west, you know, zigzag, just back and forth.
I mean, I'm a fan of yours for years, and also I've been listening to you for 20 years.
Now, I'm from Portsmouth, New Hampshire originally, which was a SAC Air Force Base, and it was a 509th wing, which was Roswell.
I had my first of three encounters back in 1972 with another witness, daytime disc.
Took off straight in the air.
Second one was in 1982 with my girlfriend on the beach of New Hampshire in the summer, right over our heads.
It was a ball of light with a trail.
It was definitely a craft.
The last time was with Stephen Greer, who got a group of us up in New Hampshire, about 10 miles from the airbase, and we called in a couple, three of them.
And Stephen Greer was sitting next to me, and he said, I said, boy, this happened to you a lot.
Because exactly, sir, what you just said, one of our benefactors for the 701 is a very, very successful businessman, Larry Frischella, out of Philadelphia.
And he'd heard all these different stories about these military guys.
It had evidence, photographic evidence, or documentation or pieces of an alleged scratch site or something like this.
There's been many, many tales over the decades of these bits of evidence that have been swept away or swept under the carpet or sent off to D.C. and never to be seen or heard from ever again.
And Larry said, you know, he's a very wealthy guy.
He said, well, why don't we put up an reward?
And he's very serious about this for $701 of $100,000 for anyone who can produce such evidence.
And I can vouch for the guy.
He could easily cover this kind of reward.
So we did.
And we announced it actually a couple of months back.
Lee Spiegel and Open Minds actually joined and wrote an article about it.
And, you know, we got some pretty good response initially.
And then I got a couple of emails and phone messages from people that said, well, we're going to need a lot more to come forward with the stuff we've got.
And I'd like to make the announcement today that if anybody out there, we have an active $100,000 reward for evidence, photographic.
You know, it's obviously one says, well, what defines clear evidence?
You know, anything official that's photographic or video filmed would be considered very good evidence if there's any particular smoking gun document or a piece of an alleged crash from a crash site.
We consider that to be evidence.
And if anyone out there listening is in possession of such evidence, they'd like to come forward, they feel like they're going to jeopardize possibly their pension or anything else, we could generate a lot more than $100,000.
You've got my word on that, to go out to 701themovie.com and please, pretty pleased with Sugar on Top, get in touch with us.
If they want to speak face-to-face, we can make arrangements to do that as well.
unidentified
But I did want to take the opportunity, Art Bell, if you don't mind.
But there are, you know, even if it's 0, 0, 0, 0, you know, percent, 1% chance of coming across this.
There are so many military guys that I've talked to that maybe during their official duties at White Sands, New Mexico or Vandenberg Air Force Base, where they were to document missile launches where they've had anomalous objects enter frame, you know, disc-shaped objects, and these things have disappeared.
And there are probably military guys out there listening, possibly tonight, that might know where those are.
And it might be a bit of a risk for them to come forward.
But if any of them out there listening would come forward, I can assure you we can make it worth your while financially so you wouldn't have to.
So, like I said, I'm aware of all those things, and I know the likelihood is rare, but I know it's out there.
We know it's out there, and we'd love to get our hands on something like that, and we'd love to compensate someone properly for taking the risk to come forward.
Yeah, actually, it's more of a statement, I guess, or consideration.
I'm a retired Air Force 24 years, so I say exactly what I did.
But how about a danger or a warning when you're looking into why would the government control or cover up?
If multiple races were to ever visit this planet, they would be the best of their races.
They would be the bravest.
They would come here on a mission and they would return at possibly 40 to over 100 light years away.
The technology of them moving through space or moving through time or whatever, that is the most controllable, most valuable weapon that the U.S. government or any government on this earth could ever, ever obtain.
And that's, I think, number one is first, why would the government ever just envelop and control and need the technology so badly?
And when they don't know how it works, until they do know how it works, until they have a defense against it, then they're going to always control and control and control.
And it very, I think it's very, very, very scary and dangerous how powerful the U.S. government is in obtaining that and controlling it.
And I wish you guys the best.
I enjoy listening to you.
But my goodness, please, gosh, I know what the government can do.
Anybody who can get here from X number of light years away is in control of a technology that people would do a lot more than kill individuals for.
So, you know, it's a very, very good point.
There's so much mixed up into all of this that bodies, oh, sure.
Frank in Illinois, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
Thank you.
I'd like to ask your guests this question, please.
What do you guys make of the diametrically opposing theories, if you will, between Dr. Stephen Greer, who proposes that aliens are here for benevolent reasons, and then the theory being proposed by Dr. David Jacobs,
who believes that we're at the end stage of a program in which an alien race has created alien-human hybrids, and that they're at the point of either an integration program or there's going to be some created catastrophe in which the human race is going to be eliminated in order to bring in this hybrid species.
I'm going to have to ask that everybody hold tight.
Caller, thank you very much.
It is such a good question.
The opposing theories, Dr. Greer, who thinks they're good guys, tries to encourage them down with flashlights and all kinds of blinky things and have a conversation with them.
Then we have Dr. Jacobs, who doesn't think they're nice guys at all and will do us great harm.
Either one or both are possible.
That's what it is, all right.
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, this is dark matter.
And I think we've got something very interesting on the table.
Tobias McGrit.
James Foster with me, and the question is, when you look at the diametrically opposed views of Greer and Jacobs, what do you gentlemen think?
I mean, one thinks they're good guys and they're here to be benevolent with us, and the other thinks that they're dangerous and we should watch out.
It seems like they're always at least a beat ahead of us.
You know, if you look historically at the sighting, you know, dating all the way back to the 19th century with the big airships and the different craft, and it seems to get one step more advanced, one step more advanced constantly.
Can I say one thing about that one step ahead, though?
I've got two cats and a laser pointer, and I can put that thing on the ground, and they will kill each other over it.
And I always purposely stay one step ahead, but I can stay like a thousand steps ahead if I want to.
And sometimes when I think about the craft, you know, like with the Washington case when they're just circling our jets with impunity and just basically flying circles around them, we were joking about that the other night.
Sometimes I think it's, you know, cats with a laser pointer the way they're interacting with us.
Well, yeah, there was also speculation as to, I mean, it seems kind of funny that our radar would affect their navigation, but that's certainly one of the theories.
During that time in the southwest, that we were experimenting with all kinds of different types of radar.
unidentified
Excuse me, somehow that might have affected their navigation, but, you know, this is all, as far as I'm concerned, this is all kind of speculation on our behalf.
All right, listen, time is really, really short, guys.
Eric in Wisconsin, very quickly.
unidentified
Yes.
I have a question for you guys, since you do documentaries and movies, is ever since the 50s, they've been coming out with TV shows and movies that deal with aliens.
And in your opinion, do you think this is a way of Hollywood kind of saturating our communities and everything with aliens so that it'll smooth out the cultural shock of when we actually do get visited?
This was a letter that he wrote Larry King about watching my film I Know What I Saw that's on the History Channel every now and again.
And he said, Dear Larry, with great curiosity, I watched the documentary you sent over and found it very compelling.
Personally, I would like to think that we are not alone, and even though I have devoted a generous percentage of my movies to extraterrestrial-related themes, I, for one, have never seen a UFO.
I hope you will continue to pursue this topic on your program and that someday our government will offer a total disclosure about what they know about unidentified flying objects and their true and natural origins.