Brendan Cook and Jimmy Chunga of the Ghost Investigators Society (GIS) explore chilling EVPs—like a drowning boy’s plea in an abandoned surgical suite, a 2005 recording of "he broke my neck" matching a documented crime, and demonic voices reciting lyrics about loss. They debate residual hauntings vs. sentient spirits, including non-English voices (Polish, German) and entities taunting them at sites like the Exchange Building in Salt Lake City. Listeners share eerie experiences, from childhood ghost sightings to unexplained physical attacks, while Cook warns of pareidolia. The episode leaves unsettling questions about EVPs’ origins and whether spirits—or something darker—linger beyond death. [Automatically generated summary]
Be it sight, sound, the smell, the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak moves deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up, through tarmac to the sun again, or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie in the meadows.
I have all these things in our memories home And they use them to help us To find out Yeah
Right, right like she saw Take this place on this trip Just for me Right Take a free ride Take my place Out my seat It's for
free I worked like a slave for years Sweat so hard just to end my fears Not to end my life But by now I know I should have grown Oh Want to take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest, exclusively on Sirius XM Radio?
Also, that was recorded, by the way, it's recent, October 7th.
We also have a UFO video recorded, I believe, October 2nd in southeast Michigan.
This is good stuff, folks.
Now, it was recorded by a security cam, and there is no question about the camera because you can see the glow in the sky from a nearby city, and it never moves.
So, this is a legit UFO video, unidentified flying object.
Now, you may not think much at first.
It's slow to start, but you've got to watch the whole thing.
This thing will kind of knock your socks off, I'm telling you.
So, we've got two things at artbell.com.
Sasquatch and a UFO video.
Both of them have gone up there tonight.
And, of course, a lot of other new stuff as well.
So, get, you know, get on your computer, get your browser, point it to artbell.com and take a look.
These are both worth going to look at.
Don't forget ghost pictures.
If you get them, let me see.
Do I want them sent directly to me?
No.
No.
If you get a ghost photograph and want to enter the contest with it, send it to webmaster at artbell.com.
That way it goes directly to the man.
Webmaster at artbell.com.
That's Keith Rowland's address.
He is doing artbell.com, did then, is now.
And remember, if you've got a guest that you want to have on the program, particularly if you have contact information, please contact Paul Bowman.
Just click on his name on the website, artbell.com, same place.
A lot of people, a lot of you that I've talked to who have had trouble, you know, and thinking that it's serious, XM dropping out, well, guess what?
In a lot of cases, because I know because I've called people, you know, they email me, oh, Art, it's just no good.
It keeps dropping out.
Well, guess what?
About, well, better than 50% of the time, it's turned out that the reason people are having dropouts is because their internet is too weak.
Their Wi-Fi signal is too weak.
And so you get dropouts.
It's dependent on that Wi-Fi signal, right?
Well, if you would like to boost your Wi-Fi signal, I've got it right here.
The Super USB Wi-Fi Antenna 3.
This thing kicks butt.
It's like a little wand with a couple of suction cups on each end, a 15-foot cord.
All the electronics, by the way, are in the wand.
A 15-foot cord, and a USB plug on the end.
So all you do is plug this baby into your computer.
You've got a 15-foot cord, suction cup it to a window.
And when you check, you're going to be seeing Wi-Fi signals that are coming from far, far away.
And you're going to go, oh my goodness.
And if you're lucky, you can lock onto one of them.
Now, if you're a trucker, there isn't anything better in the world.
You pull into a truck stop or something, suction cup it to the window, put it to your computer, and you'll be seeing Wi-Fi signals emanating from all over the place, coffee houses and who knows who, you know, houses and businesses.
And you're going to be in business for Wi-Fi.
And of course, if you just have a weak Wi-Fi signal, this is going to lock you in.
Just once more with a warning, what we're about to do as we get into it is going to be scary, actually frightening.
So if you can't handle it, tune to another channel.
Here they come.
Brendan Cook.
We've got two guests tonight.
Brendan Cook is one of them.
He's one of the founding members, as you know, and key spokesperson of the GIS.
He's been on the forefront of EVP.
That's electronic voice phenomena research, ghost photography, and the use of modern technological devices to capture what goes on in the spirit world for 15 years now.
He's done this by being on a number of TV shows, documentaries, and lectures.
His knowledge, and at times, skeptical nature have also been important in giving real people comfort or the advice they need to delve deeper into what's going on at their homes or businesses.
But most of all, he's done this by being a sought-after guest with his radio partner, Barbara Macbeth.
And that's been for 14 years.
His perseverance to challenge what we know about the spirit world and people's mindset has made him a pioneer in ghost investigating.
People have changed their perception of what is real, ghosts, from the GIS core beliefs.
They're just people.
His research with Chunga, he's our second guest, Jimmy Chunga, has brought forth new concepts and ideas of what could be possible.
Chunga and Brendan have been working together to bring this research to the public for 14 years.
We've never heard from Jimmy Chunga, birth name Brett Smith.
He's been conducting paranormal investigations all over the globe for the past 22 years and has become one of the nation's leading paranormal experts.
We should have heard from him already.
He's sensitive and uses this strange ability to aid in his paranormal research.
Chunga performs almost all of his investigations with two of the country's most veteran and frankly skeptical investigators.
First is Brendan, Brendan Cook, an EVP expert, longtime partner of Chunga's in the Ghost Investigator Society.
The second is Ben Hansen, the star of fact or faked on the sci-fi network.
Chunga was taught by these two experts to trust and believe in the technology of paranormal investigating, and in turn, Chunga taught them how to trust their own bodies and the instincts they feel.
Somehow this odd matchup has produced incredible data in the world of the paranormal.
And by the way, Chunga has been a member of the Ghost Investigators Society since 1999, even though we've never heard from him on the air.
So there's more, but I'm going to jump to my guests.
And the very first thing I'm going to do is say hello there to both of you.
Well, Brendan has not been on the show with you since, you know, since the old days, since I've never had the, because I have been a radio show host of my own, I've not had the ability to go on the Art Bell show, the Dark Matter Show, until now.
And let me tell you something.
This has been, you know, Brendan and I talking about this for months.
You know, we are so excited.
Well, I mean, you know, it's Art Bell, for heaven's sakes.
You know?
When you're a young kid, you're a young radio professional, and you're slaving away.
You know what this is like, Art, when you're doing radio for 30 years or however long it is that you've been doing this, you've got guys that you look up to, right?
No, now, you know, in the interest of fairness, though, Art, we do have to tell you that sometimes lectures or paranormal events that we're a part of take place where people do pay to go.
They do buy a ticket, but when you take a look at renting a facility or sometimes you have to pay to have access to a location, and then sometimes those locations aren't in a safe part of town, for example, you have to hire security to secure the parking lots and so on and so forth.
So sometimes you do incur expenses, and those expenses, obviously, you know, we can't front everything.
So some of that cost is passed on from time to time.
But there is no one in the GIS that is, and this is one of those things that just infuriates me, it drives Barbara crazy, it drives Brendan crazy, is when people teach classes and then offer up some sort of a diploma system or a certification system.
There is, you know, if you're out there and you're listening now, I want to ball up my fist and I want to punch you right in the butt cheek for trying to do such a thing.
Because to me, there is nothing more fraudulent than trying to sell a certification in paranormal investigation for money.
I have, well, we have, the GIS, have video, visual evidence data of light orbs, light anomalies, whatever you want to call them.
Everybody calls them.
It's all the same thing.
Everybody has different names for them.
Flying into mag lights to turn mag lights on and off.
We have them flying in and out of digital recorders at the same time EVPs are recorded.
We have them floating into the spirit boxes.
You know, there's a lot of controversy about these spirit boxes, these SB7 spirit boxes, and whether or not, you know, this is where Brennan and I, we've had some heated discussions about this because Brennan has always been of the opinion that, you know, this is nothing more than just radio audio coming through a speaker and people using the power of suggestion, which is admittedly very, very strong, to generate their own opinions about what it is that they're hearing.
Oh, the SB7 spirit box is the next generation in EVP technology.
And there are probably a lot of people that are listening now that are very, and justifiably so, very skeptical of the data that they get out of the SB.
It's called an SB7 Spirit Box.
And what it is, it's kind of a two-stage thing.
It does a couple of things.
It pumps EM energy out into the atmosphere, and it's a radio scanner.
So you'll scan radio frequencies at one radio frequency for every fourth of a second.
So one second in the amount of time it takes you, you know, one Mississippi, you have scanned four radio frequencies.
And you can actually speed it up and slow it down.
And what has happened is it's generating EM energy and generating white noise.
Spirits have found a way to communicate through the spirit box.
You know, I wish I had it here with me now so that I could really kind of get into the X's and O's of it with you.
What it does do, it's a really, as far as paranormal investigating goes, in many cases, it's actually cheaper than a lot of the digital recorders that you can get your hands on.
It runs you about $70 to $80, depending on where you buy it, and operates like a very simple portable transistor radio.
Now, they've done something to it.
You know, the extent or the amount of electromagnetic energy that it pumps out into the atmosphere, you know, with respect to you and your listeners, I wouldn't want to speculate.
I honestly don't know just exactly how much it does put out into the atmosphere.
But what it does do is it does put some electromagnetic energy into the atmosphere and scans and generates white noise at the same time.
So you have to use it in concert with a video camera or a digital recorder.
And it works very much like a typical session in which you would take your digital recorder and ask questions and then play your digital recorder back later.
The difference is, is there's a lot more noise involved.
Some people don't like it because it's pretty noisy.
A lot of people attach external speakers to it and then they ask a question and the response, if there's any paranormal activity in the area, is immediate.
You don't have to play your tape back.
You don't have to spend hours hunched over a computer listening.
You can hear the voices back immediately.
And the nice thing, the cool thing about this is, is that if you were getting audio from one sweep, you would know it.
You can get full sentences.
You can get names.
You can get intelligent responses from the other side.
And you can hear the radio frequencies sweeping underneath the voices.
But when it's contextual like that, and it has to do with what you're dealing with and, you know, what's happening, that's Brendan was very, as you know, you've had Brendan and Barbara for years.
Brendan is very skeptical.
When I was learning how to do this, I trained primarily under Barbara.
And you remember, Brendan, I said, Jake, you and your wife are a beautiful couple.
And the voice of an old man came through the radio and said, yes, I know.
Very intelligent responses.
And if, again, the thing that you want to listen for so carefully with these spirit box sessions is, are the voices coming through as the radio is sweeping underneath?
Does the voice change?
Does it change?
Does it go male to female, for example?
Does it change in age from young to old?
Now, it's been our finding, and Brendan is a bit of a convert to this because he's seen it in action.
And it has blown us all away because the voices are consistent as the radio is sweeping underneath.
You guys relax for a moment, and we'll be right back to you.
We're going to be playing these cuts for you shortly, and I do warn you, these really are scary.
Seriously scary things.
But that's what we do.
It's called Dark Matter.
I'm Art Bell.
unidentified
On a morning from a forgot movie In a country where they turn by time You go strolling through the crowd like People are contemplating a
crime She comes out of the sun and a silk dress Running like a water cup in the rain Don't bother asking for explanation She will tell you that you can In the air of the car
You got me running, going out of my mind You got me thinking that I'm wishing my time Don't bring me down No, no, no, no, no
I'll tell you one more Before I get off the floor Don't bring me down You wanna see us with your fancy friends I'm telling you it's gotta be near Don't bring me down No, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no I'll tell you one more Before I get off the floor Don't bring me down
Like I said before, we have had offers to sell a million things that you don't do it.
I don't remember.
If you recall years ago, you know, when we were still using the old magnetic tape, there was somebody that claimed we were selling things for Sony, I believe.
Well, you know, in order to believe that you are getting a voice from the other side, you kind of have to believe in a higher power, correct?
I mean, that's, you know, in order to believe in the relevance of that, then you would have to believe in God or some sort of higher deity.
Okay.
Well, it's hard for me to come to grips or get my arms around the fact that if you've got some all-knowing, all-loving, omnipresent, benevolent entity, that that entity would then, that God, that deity, whatever you want to call it, would then allow an innocent, harmless child to wander lost as a spirit on earth.
And maybe the last one before we get going, but I would like to know your opinion, having done this for years and years and years and years, about whether these are people that we're hearing from that are in heaven, or these are people that we're hearing from that have died but are on earth, stuck on earth for some period of time?
Or in some cases, are we hearing from people that are burning?
Well, in the last two, we will amplify it, but that's about it.
So what we do is we play everything in context with the investigator speaking if there's one or whoever, you know, just so you kind of understand what's going on at the time.
And I wasn't so much referring to the spirit box as I was to a lot of people's complaints with EVP is that these are radio transmissions that you're picking up.
The only thing that you have to go by with something like this is us and our credibility and telling you that, you know, no.
And in my opinion, again, it goes back to the spirit box.
Spirit box is a little bit different because you will have, you know, you'll have, it's almost like a second stage recording where you'll hear the people in the room, you'll get the intelligent response.
You can clearly tell that it's coming through the spirit box and isn't somebody else that's in the room.
Again, I'm not a proponent one over the other.
It's just two different means to an end.
It's just two different tools in your toolbox.
With this particular EVP, we were all, there were two females that were in the kind of the entryway area of the mausoleum in the chapel area.
Everyone else was at the very, very far end, which is thousands of square feet away, not within earshot.
And there were no male voices around, and there were two females around.
The only way to give you more context at that point is to play longer clips so that you can hear the audio of the people walking up the stairs, walking into the room, having a conversation.
These EVPs, folks, are found by taking the recorder to the mausoleum or wherever you take it and then going home and listening very carefully to hours of tape, hour upon hour upon hour of conversation to find the EVPs.
The spirit box, on the other hand, is designed to give you immediate feedback, which is scary as hell.
If you get a contemporary comment thrown back at you from having asked some sort of question, that's really frightening.
And it would be the next logical place to go for you investigators.
But when you present something to a national audience, or international audience, actually, like now, trust me, what you're playing for them is much more credible is the word.
Well, you know, you bring up an interesting point here, Art, because, you know, every time we do one of these sessions where we're going through hours of tape, it's, you know, pizzas and, you know, snacks and people sitting in coffee, people sitting in a room and then arguing and offering up their own interpretations.
And, you know, Brendan and Barbara would never agree.
Ever.
I know Barbara agreed.
It came down to me splitting them up several different times.
I mean, you know, we would love to know nothing more than what exactly that voice is saying, but the key is there's a child's voice there that shouldn't be there.
Now, that isn't what I wanted to hear, because, well, who wants to hear that?
But that's what I heard.
This is Dark Matter.
unidentified
All our times have come Here but now they've gone Seasons don't feel the reaper No to the
wind, the sun, and the rain We can be like they are Come on baby Don't feel the reaper Baby take my hand Don't feel the reaper Will the end of life?
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Don't leave me this way I can't survive without your love Oh baby Don't leave me this way I can't expect I'm sure you're in the king Don't leave me this way Space,
Don't leave me this way is right, and if you do, I'll be nearby with a recorder.
This is EBP, Electronic Voice Phenomena, folks, and what you're hearing has been recorded on digital recorders for the most part, and will notify you when it's otherwise.
Not the Spirit Box.
Spirit Box is a good subject for another show.
Spirit Box allows contemporary, real-time communication with spirits.
These are hard.
What you're hearing tonight are really hard to do, hard to get, hard to listen to, hard to talk about.
that's too clear it's it's it's I I want to say wrong and like Jimmy brought up earlier I it's it's one of those things where we did this to get answers and we've got I understand I understand I just don't know what answers we're getting, and I don't know if I like them.
First of all, by number, I don't think that many children die compared to adults to justify the percentage of child EVPs you get.
Well, you know, you think about child mortality through history in America.
Child mortality is not what it used to be.
But, you know, back in the 16, 17, 1800s, here on this continent, child mortality was considerably higher.
Just because we're hearing a child's voice doesn't mean it's, you know, of a recently deceased child, it could be, you know, that child could be, you know, could have died hundreds of years ago.
Here's something else that I want to get out to the audience, and that is that although you are experts at doing this because you've been doing it for so long, there's nothing in the world that says whoever's listening right now, if they don't believe this,
is welcome to go get a recorder, go to a site like this if you have the cojonies for it, and do some hours of questioning and talking and see if you get a response yourself.
Well, you know what?
I've said this in years past.
People have said, okay, I take the challenge.
I'm going out, and they come back with EVPs that they send to me.
And that's one of those things that's so frustrating to me about people that want to have, you know, they want to offer up, you know, certification or diplomas because anyone can grab an analog cassette tape recorder and go out and try this.
You know, at the GIS, we don't recommend you do it in your own home.
That's something we recommend you stay far away from.
Well, it's one of those things where, and again, we talked about this before.
If we feel you're going to be scared by what we might find, when people call us and say, come into the home and, you know, do an investigation, here's what's going on, our first question is always, if what we find or if what we present to you is going to scare you, what would you do?
And if their response is, I don't think I could live here anymore, guess what?
And the building has been a variety of things in its history.
It's been an institution for the mentally ill.
I'm trying to be as politically Correct as I can.
It was an insane asylum at one point.
It's also been a drug rehab center, and it's been a hospital, and it's been a variety of things.
We captured this EVP.
Sometimes when we do investigations, particularly the exchange building, we'll just set up condenser microphones or digital tape recorders or digital recorders of various types, and then we'll leave the building.
So there's no contamination, not even our footsteps can be heard.
And in this track, you're going to hear a woman with, she sounds like she's got an accent, possibly a Hispanic accent, just out of nowhere.
Again, there's no context to this art.
There's nobody talking.
No one is asking a question.
It's just, you know, a lot of silence.
And then all of a sudden you'll hear a female voice say, put that thing in his eyes.
But the thing that is weird about that is that she does have kind of a medicinal, clinical, matter-of-fact kind of tone in her voice, almost like she's performing a procedure.
Okay, so this one, we're going to go out of the exchange building, and we're going now into a private residence that we actually did just about a month ago.
And we kept telling them no, and they wouldn't let up because, you know, typically, you know, what we tell people is that when you're dealing with something that's demonic in nature or what is potentially demonic in nature, that's never been human and all it wants to do is hurt, you know, the fun times of ghost investigating are over.
Which that absolutely, you know, you talk about hearing EVP in different languages.
We become really terrified when you start hearing EVP in Latin, which is, you know, a dead language.
People don't know it, especially in the United States.
And, you know, unless you're a devout Catholic, you don't really know much of it at all.
And, you know, when we've got this skeptic in our group that comes running to me and says, hey, we've got to get the hell out of here because, you know, and Brendan, the term for people who don't know, I will not serve was said by, was said by.
here it is You know, if I was in an 18-wheeler in the middle of the night driving across the country and I heard that, I would be a mess, an absolute mess.
Gentlemen, hold on.
EVP, the GIS, are here tonight.
unidentified
Drifting on the sea of heartbreak, trying to get myself ashore for so long.
For so long.
Listening to the strangest stories.
Wondering where it all went wrong for so long.
so If you could read my mind, love what a tale my thoughts could tell.
Just like an old-time movie about a ghost from a wish him well.
In a castle dark or a portrait strong, with Jake upon my feet.
You know that ghost is me.
And I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost.
You can see.
Dark matter, much like SiriusXN, is all around you.
And this is one of the EVPs that we brought for you tonight that is, frankly, it's really disturbing.
Really, you know, we've played this for people and had them cry because it's just so disturbing.
It comes from, we actually did not record this.
And in fairness, we've got to tell you, look, you know, because it didn't come from us, its credibility is questioned by everyone in the GIS simply because we didn't do it.
You know, we did not record this.
However, it was sent to us by a family in Texas who was being menaced, wanted our help, and was being menaced, had a little boy in the family that said there was something that was menacing him, hurting him, being mean to him, and attacking him in the middle of the night.
And the family wouldn't listen to him.
And, you know, as adults do, as we've all done, you know, kind of dismissed this kid and said, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Well, he wouldn't let up and wouldn't let up.
And so the dad finally just said, okay, finally, you know, just I'm going to patronize this kid and just, you know, placate him, give him what he wants.
So he picks up his video camera and says, okay, give me a tour of your room.
You know, show me around your room.
Where does this thing come from?
And you'll hear in this DVP, you'll hear this little boy that's being attacked by this evil entity saying, you know, this is my baseball glove.
This is, you know, he's kind of, you'll hear him directing him around the room.
And then you'll see, this is the TV.
That's where he comes out of.
And then the little boy sees movement on the TV that's off.
You'll hear him, you know, reference the movement on the TV.
And then you'll hear the demon say, I am your worst enemy.
Just because it implies to me that a kid is still around and it's still interacting with people, thinking it's still there, thinking he can still do all that.
This is one of those situations that we were referencing earlier where occasionally we'll put a digital recorder down somewhere and then leave the scene.
And what we did was we set a digital recorder down on the grave of a baby.
There's a baby grave.
There's a little marble lamb kind of carved on top of the grave.
You get the idea.
So we set the digital recorder down and walked away.
You'll hear wind blowing.
Now, there was some arguing within the GIS, Barbara, Brendan, myself, because some of us say that the baby is laughing.
Others of us say the baby is crying.
It's really subjective, and I'm interested to see what you think about this.
I'm reminding you, I warned you at the beginning of this program, I warned you, these things were going to be disturbing, and they are.
I really have the hardest time, guys, believing that the God that we all, I don't know, think of, you know, everybody thinks of some kind of a god who wouldn't allow a child.
And then when we recorded this lady's voice saying finally, I think it was the eighth or ninth time we had done this investigation, she just said, I'm completely dead.
There's a location that's in Salt Lake City, and it was settled by Mormon pioneers, and we have this big, you know, I don't want to call it a, it's a park, it's a state park where historical buildings and, you know, artifacts of the era are kind of on display.
It's called This is the Place State Park.
The reason it's called This is the Place is because when the leader of the Mormons at the time, a guy by the name of Brigham Young, who's a university, you know, BYU, he was the prophet of the Mormon church.
He came down through the mountains with hand carts and wagons and looked over at the Salt Lake Valley and said, this Is the place.
So that's why they call this area, this park, this is the place state park.
You're going to hear Brendan in one of the buildings, which, by the way, the place is just incredibly active and very, very haunted, both by good and bad.
There's a lot of really very dark and kind of yiki stuff that we've encountered there, which is strange because it's actually a religious park.
But Brendan is having some trouble in this EVP.
You'll hear Brendan struggling with his radio, which is a common occurrence there.
There's a lot of energy drains there, a lot of drains on batteries and equipment.
And you'll hear Brendan say, you know, does this radio work?
And there's actually an EVP that precedes this that we didn't bring tonight that, I mean, you hear, it's like a two-minute long clip of me just having trouble with this.
And then the only way that EVP could have been better is if it said, me don't like you, because it sounds just like Cookie Monster when you listen to it.
Well, that was, like I said, this is the one clip out of every well, there's one other clip that has just changed my entire view of what we do and how we do it and what I think.
It was, you know, when we were at that private home, when we got, you know, audible EVP of, you know, something speaking Latin and throwing things at us, that was the only time since 1999 where Brendan has actually come to me and said, look, I can't, we've got to get out of here.
The Bram House is, again, this is one of those rare times.
You know, keep in mind that we're showcasing a lot of EVPs here tonight, and a lot of them come from very evil and dark places.
And it's actually very, very rare that we ever investigate anything like this or that we ever accept an invitation to investigate anything like this.
But this was a house where the inhabitants, the women inside, were practicing witchcraft.
They were witches.
Yeah.
And there was a lot of kind of dark ceremony going on in there.
And they were dabbling in kind of, you know, black magic sounds so corny, but they were dabbling in some pretty dark stuff.
And it wasn't long after they started doing this sort of thing where they started having some real problems in the home, waking up with cuts on their bodies, waking up with scratches, deep scratches, not just, you know, scuffs and things like that, but scratches or cuts or drawing blood.
Well, and at one point, their altar, I mean, I don't know enough about witchcraft, I think, but I guess they have an altar that they have to have in a certain position.
They woke up one day and it was destroyed and thrown all over their living room.
You know, as the years have gone on, we've found ways to kind of streamline what we do.
We're very careful to do what's called tagging.
And that's, you know, when you're walking through a house, you know, any sort of noise that you make is identified by you on the recorder.
So you hear footsteps, you say, that's me making footsteps.
Or I hear Brendan talking in another room.
I'm careful to say there's Brendan talking in another room.
Because then you go back hours after the fact, and rather than spending 20 minutes listening to something and then finally determining, oh, that's Brendan talking in another room, you're able to just move on.
So over the years, we've really been able to kind of trim that down, but it is still very, very tedious.
You know, I had a woman ask me just a couple of days ago, what's the difference between using a Ouija board and using a digital recorder?
Or what's the difference between using a spirit box and using a Ouija board?
And my only answer is that a lot of people will say none.
I say that the difference is that operating a Ouija board, the theory behind it is that an entity has to inhabit your body in order to move the piece around the board.
These other items, the entity will, as I was talking about at the beginning of the show, if you weren't here listening to us, we have video of light anomalies and orbs actually flying into the device or the flashlight or something in order to manipulate it in some way.
And it's just me asking, you know, after we did the interview with these ladies and they told us how bad this had become, I'm, you know, I'm asking the spirits or whatever is in that house.
I don't know if I would call it scary, but definitely one of our more sad EVPs.
Again, it's another child's voice.
It takes us to...
You know, anytime you get into an antique shop, you know, where you've got a lot of memories and a lot of that type of energy around, it seems to me that hauntings seem to be a little bit more prevalent.
Well, we were in this place, and you hear Brendan say, you know, it's a very familiar question, can you tell us what it's like where you're at?
And then you hear a very sad little child say, I didn't eat today.
All right, that had a very interesting affect to it, a kind of a whooshy, it's hard to describe, a kind of in-and-out phased sound to it, I guess that's the way I'd put it.
We have noticed that that weird phasing that you're talking about usually accompanies virtually every EVP we get.
It is, you know, and I struggle with it.
I can't tell if it's the spirit drawing energy out of the actual device itself or if it's the energy surrounding the device that the spirit is using to speak.
I don't know, but you get that weird warbling and phasing effect in almost every EVP we've encountered.
And again, because there is something very, very dark, both Brendan and I have had some pretty malicious and malevolent run-ins at this place, and you'll clearly hear a very dark and deep voice say, get out.
In its entirety, which is an eternity when you're talking about EVPs.
It was recorded in that stock exchange building that we were, you know, I was telling you earlier that this thing got its, you know, its birth as a stock exchange building and talking about livestock, cattle, and horses and the like.
There was, I mean, this place, like Jimmy had said, I mean, it's everything from a stock exchange building and stock livestock to, you know, mental institution.
Well, the interesting thing about that building art is that when you go into the exchange building, because I think the last thing it was commercially was a methadone clinic and involuntary rehab center, basically.
And you'll see messages of what I call medicated optimism scrawled all over the walls.
And you can tell that they're on something and just these random messages of somewhat delusional messages of hope.
And so when we got that humming, it sounds to me, again, you've got that weird kind of phasing and that weird kind of warble as she's humming.
But it sounds to me like she's just kind of zoned out and she's just hopped up on methadone or something and just kind of mumbling slash humming to herself.
Run in the shadows, damn your love, damn your life And if you don't love me now, you will never love me again I can't feel it, hear you say it, you will never break the channel with me You're listening to Dark Matter with Art Bell.
For you to really matter, please dial 1-855-REO UFO.
Several have noted that we have played some of these EVPs previously.
There's no question about it.
I asked specific, for a very specific reason, that they be a mixture of old and new.
The reason for that is simple.
Everybody has to remember that we're now on Sirius XM.
We now have a new audience of, I don't know, 27 million people, something like that.
So obviously, in trying to get some up to speed and allow the audience to enjoy some of what has transpired in previous years, I wanted a little bit of both, and that's what we got.
So I wanted to ask your guests how they explain how the EVPs take on the reverberation and the sound of the room if the EVPs aren't actually being recorded or being heard by the human ear.
Well, you know, Eddie, this is Chunga.
It's Jimmy.
I also am in music production.
That's what I do.
That's kind of my day job.
And, you know, my answer, Brendan may certainly have a different answer.
My answer is I don't know.
That's why it's called a phenomenon.
It's because we have absolutely no clue as to why the echoes and the sound reverberations can be picked up other than they're just speaking at a frequency that our human ear can't hear.
Yeah, you're that's that's how I've been listening to him, Art.
And with the Fidelity through Sirius, I mean, it's really uncanny how much you can pick up, especially the first three that you did.
It sounded like the EVP, the voice, wasn't even taking on the reverb characteristics of the room at all.
It sounded like they were in a dark chamber, and the investigator's voice sounded like it was in a plate or a hall in a much smaller room.
Which I thought, well, how can that be?
And then the later ones, you know, the last 15 or so you did, the voice, the reverberation sounded almost exact to a lot of that has to do with, I mean, the difference in what we're using, I mean, how we're recording stuff.
The ones that were played later were, there were more traditional analog recordings in the later EVPs that you heard.
The ones that we played first were some of the newer, more digital ones.
But again, that offers no explanation whatsoever.
So do you guys believe that the digital is better than the analog as far as recording EVPs?
Or have you noticed a difference?
Usually with the audio artifacts and things, especially with the digital stuff.
Let me tell you this.
I know people that will drop hundreds of dollars on really top-end digital recorders.
And it's been our experience that, you know, the traditional cassette tapes and lower-end digital recorders tend to work better simply because they don't filter out as much white noise.
So it allows us to kind of differentiate a little bit easier.
But again, that doesn't mean that the higher-end stuff isn't going to pick things up.
We use a very expensive condenser mic and we get lots of data from it.
So again, we can't really point to one thing that works better than another.
They're just kind of different.
Do you guys process the EVPs at all?
Or is there any type of processing with the digital recorders as far as bringing the noise levels down or any compression or things like that that might add artifacts?
You know, and also to keep the credibility of the GIS, there's something that I feel I have to tell you, because this is my occupation is, you know, using, you know, Pro Tools and Ableton and, you know, a lot of these different software programs, because that's my occupation, I don't actually do this.
All of this stuff is actually done by Brendan.
I don't touch it at all because I don't want anybody to get the crazy, you know, to think that I have in some way, because I'm a professional at it, I've in some way manipulated anything or over-processing it.
Yeah, so I don't touch it.
I don't touch it at all.
It's all done by Brendan, who does not do that for a living.
Now, we've done that in times past, and inevitably I get all these people coming back to me in email, sending me EVPs, telling me, oh, yeah, people don't realize this goes back to the beginning of sound, Alexander Graham Bell, and on from there.
Kind of like what we said before, where, you know, people say, well, you're skeptical and hey, you know, we tell them go try it.
And then they say, well, you guys have some kind of companionship or partnership with Sony, and that's why you're telling us to go try it, because then we're going to go out and buy a Sony recorder, and we're going to, You know, you can't win.
This goes back to, you know, back in the days of vaudeville when they were trying to find ways to amplify voices in theaters, they would use copper wiring that would run down through the perimeter of a theater.
And they would try to find, I don't know how much you know about this, but, you know, actors would report hearing voices picking up EVP off of this copper wiring, out of this reaction in theaters.
And so, you know, the reports of EVPs and this phenomena going on goes way back to before there was any sort of electrified sound.
And it would, you know, challenge yourself.
Go read this stuff and grab a tape recorder and go out to a cemetery and just try it on your own.
And when you do that, it's like somebody opening up the window shade to an entirely different world when you know yourself that there was nobody there with you.
Well, yes and no, because that's a very common belief.
However, there are many common beliefs with regard to children and the dead.
You know, some people believe that, you know, when you dye your soul, your persona, your visible appearance looks as though you're in the prime of your life.
I wouldn't call them extremely rare, but we've gotten a lot of activity where you can visibly, or I guess audibly, I should say, hear screams or yells or footsteps.
I investigated an old hospital out in a small town called Towilla out here in Utah.
And it had just shrieks, a woman just shrieking as though she was being attacked.
And it was recorded on audio, but it was also audible to our ear as it was happening.
Back in the 70s, I used to see Ghost as an older kid.
I'd say I was about 10 years old.
I don't see him anymore, and I don't know the reasoning for it because I used to see him a lot.
They always be interested in my younger brother in his crib.
I'd always wake up and see him.
They knew I could see him.
They were always interested in him as a baby, but I don't see him or hear anything anymore.
And I'm just curious if it's something that you lose or what was the reason of being able to see him at one time and then never having that thing again.
When you're younger, and I've talked about this I don't know how many times you are trained to, I mean, not trained, but you don't trained is really the way to put it.
Yeah, that's kind of it.
I mean, when you get older, you get trained not to see certain things.
You get trained you're going to be crazy or judged as, you know, when you're younger, you're innocent.
You know, one thing that I've worked really hard on, Art, is teaching Brendan.
You know, to answer this guy's question, yes, you can get it back.
You can get it back very, very easily.
And one of the things that I want to try and just kind of really, really impress upon people is that, you know, if you think that you don't have the ability to do this, first of all, everybody does.
Some people have more ability or they're more in tuned and can do it easier.
But, you know, go back to Marlon Perkins' Wild Kingdom or watching animals in the wild on National Geographic or something.
Have you ever noticed how you'll have a pack of Impala or Antelope and they'll all bolt and dart at the same time?
And as mammals, we're on this earth as mammals, as animals just like everything else in the kingdom.
And we're blessed or we are genetically imbued, whatever you want to call it, with certain sensitivities and certain instincts that we arrogantly devolve as we age.
And those sensitivities can very easily come back.
And I have found that the more investigating you do, the more in tune you become with the spirit world and the easier it becomes over time to feel this stuff.
And even Brendan, you know, the guy who I've seen objects thrown at him.
I've seen things hit him in the head, lights, and, you know, I've seen attacks on this man, and Brendan will dismiss it as though it's nothing.
Even he, the eternal skeptic, is starting to come around and come to me and say, you know what, I'm really feeling uncomfortable.
I'm curious to know if as a child I had an entity in my home, and I wasn't the only one who saw it.
My mom had seen it.
My family had seen it.
I'm curious, years later, having think that I have discovered who or what that might have been, is it possible to have something like that attached to someone that you will meet in the future?
One interesting, freaky, spooky show you guys have, and I thank the two guests for going out and gather this stuff.
And I got two quick questions, and I'll hang up a quick.
But have either one of you ever experienced, before you heard the audio on it, Either a room temperature difference or some presence in the room where you got the recording.
And have you ever had anybody actually identify one of those voices, like the woman that got her tech broke?
Yeah, this is one of those things that it goes back to that.
You know, the short answer is it goes back to what I was talking about before where, you know, I didn't even realize that I was somebody that was empathic and sensitive to this kind of thing until we'd been investigating for a while.
And I was recognizing things before the gear was.
I was recognizing temperature changes and things like that before the equation.
We have had things, and again, this is my rationalization of all this, trying to figure out how things could have happened where I'm physically having things thrown at me.
And, you know, Jimmy just said the exact same thing, that I had something hit me in the head and I said it was a bat.
I was wondering if your guests had, well, I have a few ideas about eliminating any RF or radio interference getting picked up by their audio recorders by using a small copper Faraday shield and placing it over their tape recorder.
And that would almost give them some confidence as far as not having any RF signals getting picked up and only the audio from the audio.
And I don't know that this is something you can give out on the air, but by any chance, the stock exchange building that y'all visited, is that by any chance the Fort Worth Stock Exchange in Texas?
Yeah, I just wanted to ask the guys while they were doing recordings of DVDs if they've ever felt a presence.
The reason why I ask is because occasionally, sometimes I feel a presence around me, and it's kind of like a really eerie feeling.
And I've been in places where I know people have passed away before.
And one time, this was like I was at work, and I'm outside, and it was like in the middle of the night, and I had this very eerie feeling, and felt like I had a finger run down my back.
Whereas I can pick up, you know, we had a bit of a problem with me about a year ago where I'm at the point now where I can pick up entities that are trying to pose as something else when they're lying or being deceptive.
And that doesn't necessarily mean they're demonic, but, you know, we ran across a male older entity that was trying to pretend like it was a little girl on EVP.
And I called it out, and all hell broke loose.
It got really, really bad.
And, you know, so it really varies upon the person and their own individual willingness to accept what they're feeling and sensing.
I have a nice story for you, and it was a good one.
My husband passed away, and he and I made a vow that if we could, we would try to contact each other.
And so when he passed away, a few months went by.
I never felt sad.
I always just waited to see if he would come to me or somehow get in touch.
And one day, my daughter and I, who I was not really tight with, we were sitting in the kitchen in a very quiet house.
And she got up and left the room, walked into the next room, and we heard this, ah, and I sat and looked around because it sounded like it went through the whole house.
And yet it was still right next to me.
And I turned around and looked in her direction in the next room, and I said, was that you?
And she said, I was hoping it was you.
And then we hardly talked about it.
She still doesn't like to talk about it.
But I felt that it was my husband because he knew that I always wanted to be closer to my daughter.
And maybe that time he took advantage of that moment.
I don't know.
But then my father passed away the same year, and they sent my mother to live with me.
And she was in her 90s.
And she and I are sitting at the kitchen table.
I was never close with my, I was close with her, but we lived, she was on the west coast, and I was on the east coast.
And we were talking, and we heard the same, huh?
And we looked at each other.
She had this deer in the headlights look in her face.
And I said, Mom, relax.
That's Bob.
Because he used to call her the wicked witch of the West.
And as a joke, I mean, he really cared about her.
But I said, Mom, that was Bonnie.
And he's letting us know that he's happy that you're here with me and everything's fine.
But I will tell you that that sound went through the whole house again.
And currently, I'm in Gary, Indiana, because I do drive a truck, and thanks for the shout-out there for being driving an 18-wheeler.
My comment was I was out in a log cabin with my wife, and we had built a fire out in the back, and I started taking pictures of the fire.
And I had seen the movie A White Noise, and I thought, wouldn't it be interesting if old Indian spirits would come through the fire and show their faces or something like that?
So since then, I've been taking lots of pictures of fire.
Now, I can't say that I've ever seen any clear faces or anything like that.
But I was just wondering if the guys had ever thought about trying something like that, like setting up a flame and using a camera with a high shutter speed to see if they can catch any still animals.
And we've talked about this before, the subjective nature of EVP.
When you do something like that, you're getting into what's called pareidolia.
It's when you look at clouds and you make faces that, you know, you see a bunny in a cloud.
It's the same kind of thing.
So, yes, there could definitely be something there.
I'm not going to discount it and say there isn't, but at the same time, from our perspective, what makes our EVP work is when it's contextual, I mean, it responds to us, or it's contemporary, or it means something.