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Oct. 8, 2013 - Art Bell

03:03:18

Dark Matter with Art Bell - Yalman Onaran & John Hogue - What Happens if the US Defaults

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	Now, here's our extra-terrestrial radio, actually.
	Hi, everybody.
	I am Art Bell, and this is Dark Matter.
	And it's going to be quite a night.
	I've got several things I've got to get off my mind quickly, if I can do it.
	Last night's show, love-hate.
	Most loved it, but people up on Bell Gap hated it.
	They didn't like that Barbara wasn't there and Chunga was.
	Well, that's life.
	But I missed her too.
	Now.
	Onward.
	The other thing they said was it was too clear.
	It's got to be fake because it was too clear.
	Let me tell you something.
	We're on Sirius XM radio now, baby.
	And it is clear.
	It's not like the old AM days when we played... As a matter of fact, about half of what we played last night was the old stuff.
	Done long ago, same stuff we played on AM Differences.
	Now you can really hear it.
	The audio response that we've got here compared to AM radio is like separate universes.
	We've got a lot of audio here.
	In fact, we petitioned and received extra bandwidth from XM Sirius.
	Sirius XM.
	That's the way I'm supposed to say it, right?
	All right.
	Let's see.
	I got a big thank you from a listener to Vice President Stern.
	I mean, Howard Stern.
	Who said we've been asking Howard for a long time for a 90 minute time out.
	Time out.
	And now we've got it.
	Thank you.
	A lot of stuff.
	Listen to me now.
	You're going to want to go.
	You're going to want to go to artbill.com.
	You're really going to want to go.
	I'm going to give you a lot of reasons you're going to want to go.
	But first, you might as well get going now.
	First, Sirius XM has upped the prize for the ghost photograph.
	If you've got a ghost photograph, a good one, send it.
	Because the winner, as determined by all of you, the winner of the ghost photograph contest now receives one year of Sirius XM free and a Sirius XM brand new radio.
	Nice!
	A brand new radio and a year subscription.
	Free.
	To the winner.
	So there you go.
	Then we've got ghost stories.
	Don't forget, if you've got a ghost story... Spooky matter... happens on Halloween night.
	That's our... ghost story night.
	Send me a brief, like one paragraph sort of summary of it.
	And leave me your phone number.
	We'll call you!
	You don't even have to call us.
	We'll call you.
	Pretty cool, huh?
	So, send it to me, artbell, at artbell.com.
	My email's up there on the website.
	Don't forget that phone number, and you gotta be home.
	Don't forget that.
	And by the way, it's better if you have a landline phone.
	If you have only a cell phone, then... I don't know, make it work.
	Don't forget Arts Parts.
	That's a special new place.
	We had so many requests for dark matter t-shirts, mugs, hats, stuff like that.
	That's part of the website, now you can go to Artsparts.
	Now, here's why you want to go to the website right now.
	Three reasons.
	I'll give you three, I think.
	Number one, there's been a find at the Denver Airport Hotel dig site.
	They have found a skull there.
	And that skull, for all the world, looks like an E.T.
	skull.
	Take a look at it.
	Don't know what it is, but we just got the photograph.
	You tell me what it is.
	Reason number two.
	We've got a UFO video tonight, which is really weird.
	I thought it was just junk at first, but now I don't think so.
	This UFO is shown in the sky by whoever took the video with seagulls.
	You can see the seagulls flying by, and at first it just looks like a little piece of junk or something, and then after a while, It looks like something else.
	It looks like a small but definite UFO of some kind.
	You tell me, you'll see the seagulls.
	And then maybe the best reason for you to go tonight to rpl.com is if you haven't seen it yet, it's gone viral.
	And it should be viral.
	It's hilarious.
	It'll be the best laugh you've had all night.
	It's the telekinetic coffee shop.
	That's really kind of a promo for Carrie, the movie, but this thing is a riot!
	They set up this coffee shop, I don't want to spoil it for you, so that it would be telekinetic heaven, and then they got a bunch of people in there drinking coffee, and they pulled this gig on them, and I'm telling you, it's hilarious!
	Absolutely hilarious!
	Things and people are flying all over the place, the customers are going berserk, You don't want to miss this.
	The Telekinetic Coffee Shop.
	Okay.
	Now, down to biz.
	I've caught an hour out of John Hobe tonight, and it's because of... not politics.
	The government is still shut down, as you know.
	I've gone from anger about that to virtual indifference.
	You know, I've I understand it's hurting some people, so I should not be indifferent.
	But, you know, they're nuts back there.
	Absolutely nuts.
	But can they be crazy enough to go to default?
	Now, default means we don't pay the people we're borrowing money from.
	We stop paying them back.
	It's like, it's kind of like bankruptcy, I guess.
	I don't know if that's fair.
	I've got a guest that we're going to ask about that shortly.
	I'm not sure that's a fair analogy, but it's kind of like bankruptcy and you stop paying people that you owe money to.
	That's really bad.
	And I said last night, I mean, I think awful things, awful things would happen.
	And I think I can justify what I'm saying.
	I said, look, if they really, really go to default, I'm taking my shekels, money, my wife, my daughter, Back to the Philippines.
	I'm a permanent resident there.
	My wife is a citizen.
	And so, you know, change these shekels into those shekels, and I think they'd be safer.
	Because I think the dollar would fall like a rock.
	Inflation would... Anyway, you know, I'm no economist.
	What do I know about the economy?
	So I brought somebody who does know about the economy.
	Yalman Anaran from Bloomberg News will be here in a moment.
	As I said last night, a lot of people who have cutouts when they're listening to me or something else on SiriusXM, sometimes it's their fault.
	And sometimes it's because you've got a lousy Wi-Fi signal.
	Here's a way to boost it.
	In your house, or if you're a truck driver, and I know a lot of truck drivers are listening to me, you take this thing, it's like a wand, And it's got a suction cup on each end, it's got a 15-foot wire, and on the end of the wire is a USB plug.
	You plug it into your computer, and oh my!
	You can start to hear Wi-Fi signals, some of them free of course, from a very, very long distance.
	Or if you're at home, it'll improve your Wi-Fi signal so you don't get dropouts.
	Either way, the Super USB Wi-Fi Antenna 3 is for you.
	I know it's for me.
	I use it.
	I used it in Manila.
	I use it here.
	It's so good that if you're seeing one or two Wi-Fi signals in your neighborhood, you take the sucker, put it in the window, plug it into your computer, add the software, and voila!
	You're going to be seeing signals all over your neighborhood.
	It's only $99.95.
	Very, very reasonable.
	And it's available by calling Sea Crane right now.
	Operators are sitting there, probably sipping on coffee and awaiting your call.
	800-522-8863.
	That's 1-800-522-8863.
	The Sea Crane Company.
	to It usually does.
	Anyway, Zombie Banks was published in November of 2011.
	He has degrees from the College of Worcester in Ohio and Columbia University in New York.
	Before joining Bloomberg, he worked for the Associated Press.
	Yaman, welcome to Dark Matter.
	Thanks for having me.
	It is a dark matter indeed.
	I, um, as you may have heard at the beginning, I said it yesterday and I said it again today, if this really, if we really go to default, I will, I'll go away, Yeoman.
	I'll go back to the Philippines.
	I'm a permanent resident there and take my money and convert it to pesos and that'll be that because I'm scared to death of the possibility of some sort of default.
	Um, Yeoman, what I want to know, is not the politics of it because, you know, they're idiots and I don't care, I guess.
	I just don't care.
	They'll either pass it or they won't pass it, the debt ceiling that is.
	But what I really want to know is what you think the consequences of a real default would be.
	I mean, of course, it's very hard to know because all these things, you know, depend on millions of people making decisions with their money.
	But, I mean, you know, we have examples from the past about smaller events and how they could ravage the economy in the U.S.
	and globally.
	So, you know, I was covering Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns five years ago and six years ago when the crisis started.
	And one of the similarities between now and then was one thing that everybody was sure in financial markets was that the government would not let Lehman fail.
	That they would rescue Lehman because they had rescued Bear Stearns and because everybody expected that the big banks were too big to fail.
	A term that we've heard often in the last five years now.
	But then they did let Lehman fail.
	May I ask you a quick question?
	Yeah, a quick question, if I can.
	If the government had not allowed Lehman to fail, Yaman, and they had come in and they had saved Lehman, would that have prevented what then occurred, or would it have delayed it?
	That's a great question.
	It would have probably delayed it.
	It would have probably spread it over time.
	I mean the fundamental problems were there.
	We had a housing bubble here that was losing air and there were housing bubbles in Europe and other places in the world.
	So, all those bubbles really have to burst somehow, but perhaps it could have happened slowly, not as sudden.
	With Lehman's collapse, a lot of markets that are all related to investment banking and securities, which was also connected to the housing market, that was one of the things Lehman was doing, they all started falling apart really fast, and there was a trigger.
	Reaction, you know, it's like a domino effect and they all sort of start affecting each other, which is why the default would be, I mean, multiples worse because, you know, the U.S.
	government has 25 times more debt than Lehman did when it went bankrupt.
	And also, Lehman was just an investment bank and investment banks do fail sometimes.
	And, you know, we had Salomon Brothers in the 90s and many other examples.
	But the U.S.
	government has never defaulted.
	I mean, we, you know, when the United States was founded 200 some years ago, there was a brief period where they said we're not going to pay the interest immediately, and they delayed it.
	But that was the beginning of the republic, and that was it.
	Since then, we've always stuck to paying our debts.
	So the Treasury Securities, bonds, bills, all the kinds of things that the U.S.
	government issues to borrow money are considered the most, I mean, the safest instrument in the world by any investors.
	Around the world, everybody owns U.S.
	treasuries.
	People in the U.S.
	put a lot of their savings into trader securities.
	So, this would be, that's why one of the reasons this would be a catastrophe.
	How big a catastrophe?
	I've been doing research on this for a while to write the article that was published this Monday.
	I've been looking into lots of reports, talking to analysts, talking to fund managers.
	I haven't seen exact figures that could quantify the problem because it's sort of everybody
	tries to hold from one end or the other.
	But there are so many aspects of it, so many markets around the world, financial markets
	and so many economies would be impacted that, you know, it's really I have not seen a number
	that tries to put all of it together.
	But stock markets in 2011 when the U.S.
	Congress and Obama again sort of had this back and forth about the debt ceiling, but they actually did extend it at the last minute, they did reach a deal.
	But even just the debate, the dispute, the fear that something might happen caused $6 trillion of market value destruction in about four months.
	That's when it didn't happen.
	Imagine when it happens, it could be multiples of that $6 trillion that was lost in stock markets around the world, a lot of it in the US.
	Then the prices of bonds would fall, borrowing costs all around the world could go up, and that means, you know, to buy a house you'd have to pay more.
	Already, you know, borrowing costs have been going up in the last year because, you know, of the fears that The Federal Reserve might not be having so much monetary, you know, loose monetary policy, but this would be many times more than that.
	So, you know, companies would have to pay more, countries would have to pay more, U.S.
	government would have to pay more, and those could be other trillions of dollars that could hurt, and these all could result in recession, going back to recession here and elsewhere in the world.
	All right, even today the Dow fell about 160 points, the Nasdaq 75 points, and that's just a taste, you know, as we sort of approach the date of the 17th.
	Now, if it really happened, if real default happened, it's possible that social security checks would stop, food stamps would stop, disability would stop.
	and you know uh... that's a hundred and forty eight million americans uh...
	by almond that uh... that get to the hundred forty million that's like half
	our population you cut that money off you're gonna have a revolution
	yet i mean that the it the money that the government
	make payments on it is not only that that we have as you said there are so
	many other uh... places where the money goes including people's uh... passion
	social security, food stamps, all kinds of spending.
	The money that's paid to the soldiers who are in Iraq and Afghanistan and in those aircraft carriers all around the world in the middle of the oceans.
	So, you know, there is a lot of discussion whether we can keep paying the debt if we just stop paying everything else.
	But everything else is is worse than probably default.
	I mean there was one estimate on that by Goldman Sachs analysts
	that said if they cut all these other payments like social security and others, defense contracts,
	companies and military personnel, everything,
	then the US economy would shrink by 5%.
	So this is the other end of the default.
	So 5%, 10%, I mean it could be a disaster because there's all these people not getting paid,
	they couldn't spend money, these companies not getting paid, they could start going bankrupt.
	I mean again the chain reaction is so hard to fathom.
	The end.
	The economy has just begun to sort of get its legs back after what happened in 2008 forward, and I guess the deficit is actually falling somewhat, and things are just beginning to look up.
	My opinion is they can't possibly be crazy enough to let this happen, can they?
	Well, you know, when I was preparing this article and talking to lots of people last week, nobody thought it could happen.
	They said, no, no, no.
	I mean, it's not going to happen.
	But if it happened, here's what might happen.
	But this week it looks more likely, because despite all the worrying, the fears, and everybody warning, the jockeying between politicians, it just never ends.
	And apparently there's a... I mean, I saw an opinion poll today.
	There's a big part of the public who's not worried about a default really doing anything.
	And they're... So, I mean, there's a lot of... I don't think most people understand what a default would mean.
	You were talking about it before I came on the air.
	I was listening.
	You said, is it like bankruptcy?
	I mean, how do we explain default to people?
	I talked to my friends and they're like, what do you mean the US government defaults?
	What does that mean?
	And it is like bankruptcy, and it's a really weird form of bankruptcy because when you have credit card debt and you lose your job and you just cannot pay, you know, you have to declare bankruptcy and there's no option.
	But with the U.S.
	government, we have all the means to pay, but one day we just call up the bank and say, sorry, I'm not going to pay my credit card debt because I just don't feel like it.
	That's right.
	And so we have the means to pay.
	We have lots of revenues, but we have been having deficits for many, many years.
	Since the Clinton administration, we haven't had a budget surplus.
	The government has always had deficits.
	But that doesn't mean we're really bankrupt in the fundamental sense.
	But if we stop paying our debt, that's saying I'm bankrupt.
	Sorry, I'm not going to pay.
	Even the Treasury said, and I'm quoting here, a default would be unprecedented, has the potential to be, their word, catastrophic.
	Credit markets would freeze, the value of the dollar would plummet, U.S.
	interest rates skyrocket, the negative spillovers could reverberate, and I'm sure they would, around the world.
	Now, I do understand that it would reverberate around the world, but I'll tell you something, Maybe you can, you know, confirm this or not, Yaman, but in 2008, I saw it coming.
	And I went to the Philippines.
	And while the Philippines is a very poor country, their banking practices there are, frankly, pretty solid.
	And they don't loan out money easily.
	In fact, it's very difficult to get loans.
	So I had my money in that time in pesos, Yaman.
	I felt very, very safe as things fell apart back here.
	Indeed, the whole country continued to have positive growth right through that whole period.
	So while it would go around the world, it wouldn't be even, would it?
	In other words, we would be hurt more, certainly, than many other countries and currencies.
	Oh yes, definitely.
	We would be hurt more than many others.
	But we would hurt a lot of emerging markets too.
	I don't know whether the Philippines would still manage to skirt this one.
	You know, several emerging markets, as you said, during the 2008 crisis actually continue to grow.
	But a lot of them didn't.
	I mean, because really, the global economy does rely on the U.S.
	as the engine of growth.
	And we were, as you were saying earlier, we were just emerging from the big mess that was 2008, and this could just take everything back.
	And we would seriously be hurt.
	And our banking system was also just recovering from the extremes and the troubles of the
	2008 crisis.
	And, you know, you mentioned my book at the beginning, Zombie Banks.
	In that I argue that we haven't really done the right things.
	I mean we basically in the last five years by keeping interest rates at zero we have
	given a subsidy from savers to the banks and borrowers to write off the extremes of borrowing
	during the bubble years.
	So that's helped a little and the banks are not as bad as they were five years ago.
	But they're still vulnerable and everything could turn around very easily if all this
	starts falling apart and the US default would really bring that devastation back again.
	Alright, real quick question.
	The banks that you mentioned that were too big to fail back then, some of them actually
	now they're bigger, aren't they?
	They are.
	They are.
	During the crisis, they were gobbling each other up.
	You know, they got bigger.
	Bank of America bought Merrill Lynch and Countrywide, which were both falling apart and failing, while Fargo bought a couple, JP Morgan bought a couple.
	So they all really were buying, failing rivals.
	And so they're much bigger.
	And we have a bigger, you know, a smaller group concentrated Um, so they are more vulnerable and the interconnection between these, uh, these giants, financial giants, are worse than ever.
	Uh, they have, uh, all kinds of esoteric securities that they trade with each other.
	They tried all these contracts that they call derivatives that are still impossible to understand by anyone who accepted the person who deals with seven of them at a time.
	Um, and, and so, Just, you know, all of that would again come crumbling down like a house of cards if the Treasuries, which are considered the safest investment in the world in the last 250 years, would no longer be so.
	That's almost impossible to believe.
	I mean, every time there's trouble in the world, money just floods into the safe haven, the dollar.
	And so to put all that to risk over some stupid political fight seems to me to be on the verge of absolute insanity, economic insanity.
	But, you know, I mean, we're within days of it.
	I'm really thinking they won't do it.
	But I'm starting to get worried.
	I mean, seriously worried.
	I mean, there are other people starting to get worried, too.
	And as I said, just even in the last few days, the chances of it happening have gone up.
	It's still not massive, I don't think.
	Last week, people were saying it's 0% to 1%.
	Now people are saying it's 7% to 10%.
	Those are still low probabilities.
	But the fact that it's bigger than zero, It's pretty scary.
	And as I was mentioning earlier, there are opinion polls that show that a lot of American people are not worried about this, perhaps because they don't realize what it would mean.
	That is also worrying, because politicians look at the polls and say, oh, so it's not a big deal, and people aren't worried, so we can just do this.
	Of course, people not worrying about it doesn't mean it's not going to bring down the whole Yes, it certainly does.
	financial system and then the global economic system with it.
	So I think it's a multiplying power.
	So you're saying it does have the potential to bring it all down?
	Definitely. It certainly does.
	And already, you know, the connections are incredible.
	I mean, for example, today there was a short-term treasury bill auction,
	and the yield, the interest rate that the government had to pay for these three-month bills,
	I think they were, was double what it was a month ago.
	All of a sudden, those costs went up twice, and this was the highest interest rate on these types of short-term bills since 2008, since the crisis.
	I mean, to me, that shows that The panic is already getting here.
	Italian and Spanish government bond yields went up the roof as well in the last two days.
	You think Italy and Spain, why?
	Well, because those countries are already in trouble.
	And if things are going backwards again, if the financial system is shaking because of this default issue in the US, the weak countries are the first to go.
	So they're already feeling it.
	Before anything happens, so, and we're feeling it, so, you know, the more these things, I mean, hopefully there'll be more market pressure as we get closer to October 17, which is the date that Treasury Secretary Jack Lew said is when we run out of money, and with more market pressure, politicians will feel that they have to do this and get, reach a deal, and then next time the debt ceiling, and we're not going to default.
	In other words, the market has to drop and scare the hell out of them before they're going to do anything.
	That sometimes seems to be the only medicine, unfortunately.
	I mean, I look back, there are many examples of it.
	During the crisis, Congress didn't approve TARP, the money that was going to be given to the banks that were all falling apart, and House voted against it, voted it down, and that day, the stock market fell 7%.
	Harsh.
	They said, oh, maybe we need to do this.
	The more market pressure, the more, you know, not just U.S.
	but other world global markets start to tank, then probably that will be the right kind of pressure.
	Even if opinion polls aren't showing people fear because they're not as close to financial markets as market players are, that could probably help.
	Okay, Yaman, let me ask you a personal question.
	And I really mean personal.
	Became convinced, Yeoman, that this was going to happen, that there was going to be a major, full default in the United States.
	What would you do with your money?
	Yeah, I almost asked this yesterday as well.
	I was on another show, and in a different way.
	We were talking about some of the contingency plans that banks are making and reports are
	that they're putting more cash into their ATMs and their branches so people can have
	access to money if there's something like this.
	But what I was saying then and what I still think, it's not really access to cash.
	It's more, I mean, if all this happens, millions of people will lose their jobs again.
	So you might access your cash in the bank, you might just not have cash to access anymore.
	Because if you lose your job and your savings are eaten up in the next three months, there won't be money to access.
	So, it's not really about taking the money out and putting it under the mattress.
	It's more about, you know, are we going to go back to 10-15% unemployment?
	Which means millions and millions of people losing their jobs.
	I have a lot of friends who lost their jobs during the crisis.
	I have friends, too.
	I agree with you.
	But even beyond that, Yaman, the dollar, they say, would tank, meaning the dollar would be worth less, and then at the same time, inflation would begin, so the dollar that's now worth less won't buy much.
	Right, those are all possibilities and that means, you know, when we travel anywhere or the goods we buy here are going to be more expensive.
	Even the goods from China that are cheap because, you know, they're made cheaper there would be worth more because the dollar would be worth less.
	So, I mean, it could be all kinds of things.
	Perhaps eventually the dollar would rise again because it's the safe currency and despite all the defaults and everything, people would come back to the dollar.
	But if we are back to 12% unemployment and millions of people are out there again and we've lost half our market value of the stock market, we'll be poorer and our housing market will crash again.
	Even if the dollar isn't in the doldrums, all these other elements are so horrendous and the impact on real people's lives are so big that I just can't... I mean, I hope they realize that it's not only one side of it.
	There are so many sides to this equation that one has to consider, and they don't go there.
	Okay, well, there are some people making the argument that, look, even if we default, you mentioned it earlier, that some people are saying, okay, fine, let's have a default and see how it goes.
	It's my understanding that right now, the money, you know, they say, oh, it'll be all right, because, you know, we get enough money every month to cover, well, frankly, either our payments that we have to make on what we borrowed, or All of these social programs, Social Security, Slody checks, I don't know, food stamps, all that kind of stuff.
	So we could do one or the other, but not both on a month-to-month basis.
	Is that about right?
	Yes.
	I mean, we always, of course, do get revenues.
	But the problem with such a drastic stop in US payments, the government's payments, Because it would force us back into a recession, revenues would also drop.
	So, it's not a solution to cut spending or plug the budget deficit.
	In fact, it would make the deficit get bigger because the revenue side of the equation would be hurt even more.
	Now, because the economy is finally recovering slowly, then we are growing, People are there are people are back in their jobs.
	Companies are producing and selling goods again.
	That means we're actually they're paying taxes.
	We're all paying more taxes to the government.
	So that is able to shrink the budget deficit.
	If we stop paying our bills and bring, you know, go back into a financial disaster, then That deficit is going to grow bigger and we won't be able to do that.
	So it's really, it's the opposite of what they think is going to happen.
	I mean, even now, terrible things are happening.
	You know, those getting killed overseas are not being compensated for funerals and the normal death benefit and all that sort of stuff.
	It's awful.
	But again, if we were to go into default and 148 million Americans stopped getting What they had been previously getting from the government.
	You know nobody really wants to go here but that's social unrest time in my opinion.
	I just can't.
	It's beyond the pale.
	They just could not do it and expect to survive as a government in my opinion.
	I cannot imagine what would happen because I don't think we've ever really gone there.
	There's been no No example of the U.S.
	ever stopping to pay any of those things before.
	We were always stuck to being the best borrower and the best government that always pays its bills on time.
	So, who knows what would happen?
	I mean, we've already gone through five years of pain, economic pain.
	We were just sort of getting back on our feet.
	So, this would be terrible timing.
	Okay, so let me come back to the question.
	You, personally, if you knew this was coming, absolutely knew default was coming, what would you do with your money?
	Or yourself?
	Or your family?
	I mean, how would you handle it?
	I don't know if I can do anything.
	I don't have that much money in the bank.
	I have a little bit saved, so I'm not a rich person.
	I don't have massive investments.
	You know, I have a 401k for retirement.
	Thank God I don't have to retire very soon, so I'm not really... I don't need to take it out that soon, because what would happen is that 401k would lose half its value again, and I wouldn't be able to retire very soon, but hopefully in the next 25 years or so that I have until retirement that things would recover.
	One would hope, looking at Japan, You never know.
	They've been stuck in a mess for 20 some years.
	So I wouldn't be able to do anything different.
	I don't have that much money.
	I have a house, and I have a fixed mortgage rate, so that wouldn't change.
	Have money, I don't know where they could put it.
	And if I lose my job, then I wouldn't know what to do.
	So those are the kind of things that I worry about.
	Unemployment, you know, if you have investments.
	But, you know, if you do have investments and you ask me, should I move it from stocks to bonds, bonds to stocks?
	I don't know where you could put it, because they could all think.
	Or one of them might do better, but which one?
	Who knows?
	Because everything is connected together.
	Alright, in the 08 mess, well, 401Ks lost, a lot of them, roughly half their value.
	A default, if it were to keep going, would be magnitudes worse than what happened in 08, right?
	I think so, because again, in 08, the one difference was that Government bonds, treasuries, investments in fixed income did better because that was a safety.
	People turned to that as a safety.
	But if that's the one that's no longer safe because the government is not paying its debt, then where do you turn?
	I mean, people will go buy German bonds, German government bonds?
	I don't know, perhaps.
	Japanese bonds, Japan's debt to GDP ratio, debt to its national income is 250% or something.
	It's one of the most indebted countries in the world.
	So that's rocky, yeah.
	I mean, is that safe?
	You know, where is safe?
	We have to go invest in the Philippines, but I mean, you know, emerging markets are always tricky as well.
	You know, we don't know enough about them.
	So one person might know about one country, but you know, they're far away.
	It's harder to even think how we can, you know, invest anything we have.
	Well, listen, I want to thank you for coming on.
	I guess, Yaman, we have to hope that they're not nuts enough to do this.
	And I trust they're not, but I'm worried.
	And that's why I wanted you on tonight.
	I surely do appreciate your coming on.
	If you've got anything else you want to get on now, if you want another plug-in for your book, I'd love you to do that, especially anything that's called Zombie Banks.
	Well, yes, and I hope the next book that I need to write isn't going to be Zombie Economies or Zombie Nations.
	If we end up doing what we did to our banks, to ourselves as a nation, as a government, country you know I hope I hope I don't have to write that follow-up book all right my friend thank you for coming on tonight thanks for having me and take care good stuff I you know there you go folks working for Bloomberg and then before that the Associated Press should know what he's talking about it's it's hard to talk about and nobody wants to panic anybody on the other hand
	Uh, here we are, you know, a week away from the, uh, 17th and a little less, actually.
	I just, I can't believe they're still toying with this.
	It's like, I don't know.
	It's like having a short fuse on a stick of dynamite and sitting there playing with matches.
	Insane.
	All right.
	One more time.
	Three really good reasons to go up to artbell.com.
	I mean, really good reasons.
	If you have not yet seen Telekinetic Coffee Shop, you've got to.
	You might as well laugh up ahead of Armageddon, right?
	Telekinetic Coffee Shop will give you a hearty chuckle, at the very, very least.
	And you'll probably be sitting there rolling around on the floor.
	So that's at Artbell.com.
	The Denver Airport Skull, or Denver Airport Hotel Skull.
	What is it, by the way, about the Denver Airport?
	The Denver Airport has always had paranormal vibrations about it.
	There have been stories about things under the Denver Airport.
	I got a personal tour of a little bit of it.
	places where other people don't get to go in Denver nothing I can really talk about
	on.
	And then there's something up there that's really cool to see.
	A UFO with seagulls.
	Seagulls flying around, but there's this UFO, this smaller UFO, doing really weird stuff.
	All of it available to be seen at rpl.com.
	Coming up in a few moments, a really cool guy named John Hoag.
	John A. Hart.
	Actually, it's welcome.
	You've never been on dark matter before.
	No, and I'm honored to be one of your early guests for your new launching.
	Thank you very much.
	It's been, actually, how long, John?
	Well, I was looking.
	It could be as long as 2002 when you were in Manila and we were doing a show between two typhoons.
	Or was that later?
	I wasn't in Manila that early, no.
	That would have been later.
	Probably 2005?
	Six.
	Six, I would say.
	Anyway, a long time, and so there's a lot to catch up on, I would say.
	Now, why do you call yourself a rogue scholar?
	Why not just a scholar?
	Why Rogue?
	Well, when I was fighting my way through the de-education system, better known as our education systems, which seems to take what I experienced, people that are naturally intelligent, and turns them in about 21 years or so into functional mediocrities for the society.
	The last step in that process is quote-unquote higher learning.
	Which I call higher conditioning.
	At least that's when I took a look at the possibility.
	I was going to go to USC on a music scholarship.
	I was going to do some other things.
	And I looked at it and I said, this looks like the icing on the cake of mediocrity for me.
	So I'm going to enroll in the University of Life and I am going to travel around and experience things firsthand.
	I think what started that was that right at the time I was getting a music scholarship to be an opera singer at USC, I also ran into William Chapman, who was one of the lead baritones of the New York City Opera, who was looking for a protege.
	He had been the protege of Lawrence Melchior, the Wagnerian tenor of repute.
	I ended up going with him because I figured, why do a couple of shows in a year when I could do 30?
	I'm going to really learn my trade.
	So that kind of rolled on to other things, and it rolled on to getting out of opera and into the study of the mysteries of the world.
	I started wandering around and probably have done as much study as anyone who attains a Rhodes Scholarship.
	I just thought, since I love alliteration, that what I really am is a Rhodes Scholarship.
	I am free.
	of the dogma of the education system.
	I'm also, because my prophecy work often takes me into studying, well, if you look at the future of countries, you're looking at the future of politics, because a country is a political identity.
	And so in the same way, I try to look at it not as a left-wing person or a right-wing person, but as a free wing.
	Uh, that can just look beyond those polarities.
	And in the same way, I became fascinated with how the past repeats itself in cycles.
	And then, as I studied the spiritual world and the religions, I noticed in their scriptures and their future histories, their prophecies about tomorrow, that there was the same pattern and the same hopes and fears that are in the past.
	And when I was also studying throughout India and Asia, studying in ashrams and others on the path of meditation, I came across concepts like the fact that the present is not really a part of the past, that the present is where eternity exists in this moment, the same moment that the illusion says is a hundred thousand years from now or a hundred thousand years before now.
	And that's what the mystics propose.
	In a very scientific discipline, unlike a lot of faith-based religions, meditation is not a religion.
	In fact, many people who practice it are also atheists.
	Some of the great religions of the East are atheistic, like Buddhism and Jainism.
	It is a question.
	It is a path that became the core of my Rogue Scholarship, and I like to think it gives me that unique insight into the future.
	You're certainly right about one thing.
	Maybe being a rogue scholar and, you know, predicting things and being uptight with Nostradamus and all the rest of it makes it easy to predict.
	The future's not so hard to predict.
	You said it yourself.
	We keep repeating the past.
	Now, why?
	Why do we keep repeating the past?
	You would think, through some sort of genetic memory or God knows what, we would Not repeat the past, particularly the bad stuff.
	But we do again and again and again.
	Why?
	This is the subject of the last 30 plus years of my study.
	It's taken me three times around the world trying to answer that question for my readers and all the books that I've written from my direct experience, I would say.
	And that's an important thing.
	If you look deep into yourself, you are a microcosm of the whole human potential and problem.
	And so meditation has helped me to look at myself and look at the things and how I started acting in a way that repeats the past and calls it the future and makes it a misery.
	And a lot of it I think has less to do with genetics and far more to do with the way societies sort of allow people to accidentally on purpose repeat those things.
	When somebody, I'll give you an example, when somebody says, to somebody you're born in this part of the world therefore you will be a Christian or you will be a Jew or you will be a Muslim and there's no question about it.
	As a child, dependent on those big giants that are your parents, your pedagogues, your priests and politicians, you to live and be loved, you will have to learn pretty quick to start seeing that the Emperor isn't naked, and that the Emperor's new clothes are wonderful, and you are an adherent to it, you identify with it, you'll even go to war for those Emperor's new clothes.
	And so it's almost a cosmic joke, because a lot of people I mean, one time I had this amazing interview with Shirley MacLaine on her show, and for one hour we just talked about one topic.
	It was, does evil have a consciousness?
	Does it plan things?
	And my response was, it just looks like it does.
	Just like, it's true, a shadow is real because it's reflecting the real.
	But we get kind of in a habit of looking at shadows as the reality.
	We're sort of training, every generation does it to every generation, so every generation is doomed to repeat.
	Let me give you two examples, one at the macro level.
	Women tend to marry the same kind of jerks who beat them up time after time after time after time.
	That's a macro example.
	A bigger example would be our country, which goes to war.
	I can give you one word that answers it.
	It is a fundamental word, and it answers the whole thing in the root.
	So, it's true. History repeats itself, and I just can't figure it out.
	I can give you one word that answers it. It is a fundamental word, and it answers the whole thing in the
	root.
	The thing, the motive force that makes this happen is a simple word, stupid.
	We are fighting a war against stupid.
	We are with stupid.
	We follow stupid.
	Sometimes stupid is a verb.
	Sometimes stupid is a personal pronoun.
	Sometimes it's a noun.
	But basically, my experience of it, because yes, when I look at your analogy, I often used to think, why do I always end up with crazy women as my girlfriend?
	So you are stuck in the same cycle, aren't you?
	Yeah, I mean, this is me.
	And the thing is, That when I finally had the courage to just own up to it and actually even accept and laugh at it, I mean, such is the case.
	This is what John Hoag does.
	He gets Chase's crazy women.
	Your current is not listening.
	Well, they'll forgive me.
	They were great crazy women.
	a lot of a lot of other all my friends now so it's okay the but I had a
	yeah I mean that wasn't their fault It was my fault of disempowerment.
	I was the one who was in a pattern, and I had to take a look at myself, and I had to look at stupid working in me, and making my relationships uncreative, and not nourishing.
	Maybe there was the thrill, but there was also the price, and I think you could expand that out to anything.
	People in this country have not taken stock about how since Vietnam we've been going into the same mistake and trying to repeat it again and again in civil wars starting with Vietnam to civil wars in Syria and all the civil wars in between Afghanistan, Iraq, all of that civil war we actually created.
	And we're not learning, and we tried again to rush into one just a few weeks ago, and then what fortunately happened was a little cosmic joker called Joke Diplomacy at HoagProphecy.com, where I have a whole article that everybody can read right now, which is going to be related to a lot of what we're possibly going to talk about tonight.
	and basically a joke was picked up by putin and his and lab rob his uh...
	is foreign minister and they ran with it and now basically it's afforded an attempt to make a war although
	you look at what i think you know what i think i have a nice
	I think that when Obama went there and talked with Putin, they said, oh well, there was nothing to talk about.
	Well, baloney!
	I think that they did, in fact, talk this out, this whole Syria thing.
	That's my opinion.
	Anyway, listen.
	Is Syria mentioned in all of Nostradamus?
	Is there anything mentioned about Syria?
	Oh yes.
	In fact, the prophecies about Syria are something I've been looking at in my books for a while, and I'm just prompting one up right now.
	I have these links on my website to different things, and let's see...
	It's alright, you don't have to look these things up and quote them.
	Well, just off the top of my head, basically he talks about cities along the Orontes River.
	Nostradamus used geography extensively in his prophecies, quite unique in prophetic traditions.
	He mentions over 650 geographical locations.
	Of course, they're all in 16th century and classical Renaissance terms.
	So, one has to learn what he knew in a Renaissance sense.
	And then, in that, he talked about areas which are the heartland of the Sunni rebellion that run along the Orontes River, where you have Hama and Arastan.
	He mentions Arastan outright in its arcane name of Arethusa.
	And Arethusa, or Arethusla, was a Greek goddess of lava.
	And he talks about how when the earth-shaking fire is in this area, which he describes, it doesn't say Syria, but he describes the area by towns and rivers, that's Syria, that you're going to see Erathusla create a new river that's red.
	He leaves it open, not red of lava, or maybe the lava of war and fire.
	He's talking about earth-shaking fire, but also of blood.
	It turned the river red.
	And so, that is his most direct statement about Syria.
	And since 1997, I have been, we might have even talked about it in previous shows, that In my books, I take people through the steps of the evolution of my detective work.
	So, from there to now, it looks like there's going to be some major fight between the main communication line of Hezbollah through Syria, that maybe Israel will get involved.
	And actually, the Hezbollah forces did get involved with Syria, And I also mentioned it was going to be a point where the Israelis might bomb, and actually there was three attacks, one of which was right along that area, which was a communication pipeline, weapons pipeline, where the Israelis struck, Hezbollah moving some perhaps chemical weapons out of Syria.
	But I wrote that in 1997, and I didn't We'll see until later this concept of it being the full-fledged civil war, but what is common in Nostradamus' work, and also in another book which I've just refreshed because of these instant movement that's going on between Israel, America, and Iran, like it seems to be coming to a climax now.
	I wrote a book in 2007 called Nostradamus, The War with Iran.
	I updated it and completely revamped it last year, last October, almost to the day, and I just now posted it on Kindle and Nook and Kobo with a new subtitle, Nostradamus, The War with Iran, Islamic Prophecies of the Apocalypse, where I look at how, in a nutshell, the three main potential combatants are Underpinned by their conditioning and their traditions to think in apocalyptic terms about the situation.
	All three make sense.
	And I believe they do.
	They think in exactly those terms.
	And before this deal came along to get rid of the chemical weapons in Syria, I frankly thought I saw a possible end.
	I mean, end of the world.
	Because it seems to me that if we had gone in and bombed, Well, no.
	Syria, that Syria's response probably would have been to fire chemical weapons at Israel.
	And then Iran would become involved.
	And pretty soon you'd have what the Bible talks about, which is pretty much the beginning
	of the end, right?
	Because Russia would be involved, and they certainly were very involved.
	It could have been the end.
	And of course, we may not have seen the end yet, right?
	Well, no.
	In fact, the book looks at...
	This is one subject...Nazaredam is famous for being open to interpretation, and I'm
	certainly open to seeing that great critique of him.
	It's true.
	However, there are hundreds of prophecies to one who understands and actually studies what Nostradamus knew, and understood how he thought, how he pieced together cryptic language.
	In a very current, for his time, way.
	And if you understand literature of that time, you can understand how he thought.
	With Iran, I've rarely seen him, except for the history of England, and the French Revolution, I've rarely seen him so in the open, in the clear, about his statements about Iran, which he calls by its arcane name, Persia.
	He calls the Persian Gulf the Arabian Gulf.
	That's what it was called in Nostradamus' day, and all Arabs call it the Arabian Gulf even today.
	There's a lot of complaints in Araby about us calling it the Persian Gulf in our Western maps.
	He talks about Persia.
	He talks about things going on in Egypt, and how the war would spread to Syria, and Egypt, and Lebanon.
	And Israel.
	He describes it outright.
	He dates it with astrological computations that made the two windows that were highest for war back in 2006 and 7, and then especially so between 2015 and 2016.
	So, what I am seeing, I also said in the book that there is, he talks about a black king, and he means someone who is black.
	And in one of my books, I look at one of his Black King prophecies and said, this is probably Obama and the Antichrist that he's killing is one of the candidates for the Antichrist in his version of Three Antichrists.
	And I said he's talking about Osama Bin Laden and that we will get Osama Bin Laden on the ground killed in Pakistan.
	I wrote that in May of 2008.
	All right, hold it right there for a moment.
	We're going to take a break.
	So, I kind of want to cut through it here.
	Is there going to be a war?
	And if so, is it going to come in 16, or did you say 17?
	2016 is the prime year, though it could come as early as August 2015.
	In the book I describe the astrological reasons why that would happen.
	I don't need to go into that.
	OK, the President of Iran right now is saying, We're open and we don't want or need nuclear weapons or anything like that.
	Is that so much baloney?
	It's important to understand there's two countries that have been countries in political identity, even though their names have changed, but they've essentially been around for a very, very long time, longer than America, longer than this new state of Israel.
	And one is Egypt, which has been around for 5,000 years.
	And the other are the Aryans, who live in Iran, which in Iranian means land of the Aryans.
	And the Iranian culture, even the Iranian conditioning, is not like those other blonde-headed, blue-eyed Aryans of Germany, which if you look at Germany's repeated past, They have more than once nearly destroyed Germany in the Thirty Years War.
	It was almost completely destroyed, the German states, and then later in what some historians have called World War I, the peace period in World War II, the second German Thirty Years War, it was almost annihilated.
	This pattern is not an Iranian pattern.
	And so, what the Iranians do, is they try to last, and they try to endure The ups and downs and the chest beatings of very powerful, very short-lived empires.
	Alexander is a great example.
	He even occupied and took Iran as the Persia as part of his empire, but then he died young and it broke up and then it slowly became back being Persia.
	So, it's important to see that view in the deep thinking of a Rouhani, President Rouhani or Khatami or the Supreme Leader.
	And I go in depth, because really, to understand the patterns of the future, you have to understand the patterns of the past.
	Right.
	And so, with that stated, I think that there's definitely a chance for peace.
	There's even a prophecy that dates a leader who would bring peace to that region and on Earth for a long time.
	The dating is exactly three weeks to four weeks after Obama was elected in his first term.
	And not elected, I mean, gave his inauguration speech.
	I'm sure you've seen all the overtures from Iran.
	I mean, they're sounding like our best buddies lately, and there was even a phone call, and all the rest of it.
	But my question is, looking at the patterns of the past, is it BS?
	I don't think it is.
	It's not that cut and dry.
	See, here's the problem.
	We in the Western program, it's this or that.
	It's not rhetorical.
	You're talking to a culture which has lived on a very complicated oriental rhetoricalness.
	So it's like... Are you saying it could go either way?
	Well, they don't want a war, certainly.
	And it's not at all clear from my sources in Iran and things that I study that they are actually pursuing a nuclear weapon.
	I would say this, and I say it in the book, when your Supreme Leader, who's basically the Pope of your Shia sect of Iran, says that atomic weapons are un-Islamic, I mean, in the West we just go, yeah, he's just another politician shining it on.
	But if one has lived in Muslim countries, and I have, you've got to understand that certain statements When they're made, if you go against them, if you contradict yourself, that is poof, that is blasphemy, and it means a lot in that area.
	He would, if he just turned around and said, oh, I was just kidding about that, as the supreme leader, the person who has the power to interpret Sharia law over all other levels of governance of his country, if he makes such a sidestep, he's gone.
	That's suicide.
	And so when he makes a statement like that, Westerners don't understand how profound and important a statement that is.
	I think I do.
	If he says it is un-Islamic, then that is a very strong statement, and I think you're right.
	I think you're probably right, in that he will keep his word there, if he's still there.
	Yeah.
	Now, another thing.
	Oh, he's definitely there.
	It's because he's decided to try another tactic to get this thing solved, and he has now got his own picked new president after Ahmadinejad, who was really a disaster for them.
	And now with Rouhani, who's also noticed he's wearing a turban.
	There's another big thing going on in Iran that Westerners don't get talking about.
	There is a struggle.
	It's very complicated, the politics of Iran, just like the politics of Israel.
	It's just as complicated.
	There is, actually, the working class people loved Ahmadinejad because he was from their poor districts of Tehran.
	People view in Iran the ayatollahs and the clerics as the 1%, like a lot of Americans don't like the 1% billionaires.
	Well, they look at the clerics as the same rich, corrupt, and influential oligarchy that's running their country.
	So, when I see a man with a white turban return...
	This is another attempt of Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, to, like he did with the one before Ahmadinejad, have a moderate go in to see if they can test the waters of moderation.
	But it's important also, in this book, I try to be fair with all my defenses and my hits of all three potential combatants.
	And one has to understand something that our press kind of overlooks because of certain biases.
	that are sympathetic to whatever Israel does.
	When Ahmadinejad made that notorious statement, which even Adolf Hitler wouldn't make such a statement in public, where, you know, wipe Israel off the face of the map, it was a translation error.
	That does not mean that they didn't feel that way, but what was not stated, was not given much exposure was what Netanyahu People said in response to that, he said, think Amalek.
	Now, if you understand your Bible, and I go through a whole chapter going through Samuel, the book of Samuel, and what that's all about.
	God told Saul to go against the Amalekites, and not only kill all the men, kill all the women, kill all the babies, kill all the cats, dogs, and livestock, and raze their buildings to the ground.
	A complete eugenic destruction of that group.
	When somebody in the land of the Bible makes a statement, think Amalek, and doesn't retract it, basically, the Iranians may have mistakenly used the wrong term for wiping Israel off the map, but the government of Israel, through Netanyahu's channels, told them back, we will wipe you off the map.
	How do you know that that statement was in error?
	It was never retracted.
	And it's out there.
	Okay, fine.
	Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	I was talking about Amalek.
	No, you mean Ahmadinejad's statement.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	Oh, well, no.
	Here again, here we go back.
	It wasn't retracted.
	I never heard any retraction.
	Yeah, it was.
	The problem is a lot of things, a lot of things never get into the U.S.
	press.
	I know that.
	And it was retracted.
	See, I do my work, thank God for the Internet, because I can actually go everywhere.
	I can actually hear what people are saying in Iran.
	And I can also hear what they're propagating, too.
	Both sides.
	The thing is that everything in the Middle East is complicated.
	In that everybody's got a piece of righteous indignation, and they're all kind of sticking it to each other, too.
	I watched Al Jazeera, John, and I never heard about any retraction.
	But that was years ago.
	Have you been watching it for the last ten years?
	Not for ten years, no.
	No, it's there.
	Tell me, when was the retraction made, and where can I read about it?
	You can read about it in my book in The Source.
	I can't think of the moment right now what it is, but it's there.
	It was retracted as meaning... He did it a number of times.
	He did it on... Ahmadinejad did it on his website.
	He did it also a number of times where he said it was a translation error.
	I go through the whole story of how his press corps, because in Farsi they don't have a word for what he was trying to say.
	And I have the Persian right there in phonetic Romanized letters.
	And explain how, in the Persian-Farsi language, they don't have a word for taking a state out of existence.
	Maybe they don't have it because Iran's lasted for 3,000 years, and it's just one of those habits.
	Good point.
	So, somebody thought, well, we'll just say, because what he was saying in that speech, I mean, I've studied the speech, I've had Farsi specialists talk to me about what it meant, He was saying that what he thought was that Palestine needed to be a state with two peoples.
	One state with two peoples.
	And that the concept of a political identity called Israel needed to disappear when that would happen.
	When they'd get together and make peace and make one nation and live together, then the whole concept of Israel would disappear.
	But what they did in Farsi is they made it wipe off the mat, which in In Persian and Farsi, they don't see that in the kind of volatile terms that we, Judeo-Christian condition people see that.
	Alright, two things here.
	Now, as you know, one way or the other, Israel doesn't want to disappear.
	And so the question is, if something doesn't change, I mean, Israel, after all, is convinced that Iran is building the bomb.
	They are so convinced, they say the red line has already been passed.
	Israel may not feel the same way about a state, as in country, disappearing.
	And they have the power to make one disappear.
	So, if we begin to cozy up to Iran, as we appear to be doing, sort of, now, beginning now, the question is, will Israel strike Iran?
	It's very likely, because then the book goes into their background.
	It goes to America, Iran, and all the biblical background that's involved in this.
	And the problem that the Israeli people, about half, over half of them do not actually support this, is because this is the other blackout.
	A lot of people in America don't actually know what people inside Israel are really talking about.
	they don't watch their news they don't investigate in their their new services
	don't actually show the very complicated and amazing world of israeli politics
	the therefore instance there was not there was a uh...
	uh... a israeli spring that when the arab spring was going on and no one even talk
	about the hundreds of thousands of israeli jewish citizens that were out on
	the streets of tel aviv protesting the fact that thousands of people live in
	ten cities not because they're in some occupy wall street number
	but because they're all the money's going to the five hundred thousand
	people living in the west bank and people are literally living in ten for
	years inside the sixty seven borders and it was such a big state that
	lapid ended up almost beating Netanyahu in the last election by one seat and and it was huge.
	He's kind of the Oprah Winfrey slash Walter Cronkite major figure that's hardly even known outside of Israel but he's a major figure in Israel.
	So the moderates finally woke up and and actually pulled Netanyahu back and Likud back from from that idea but important underpinning this as Iran has its issues Israel also has ancient conditioned issues, which I call in the chapter, the Samson Option.
	Sure they do.
	And the Samson Option is, taking biblical metaphor again, When Samson was blinded and about to go down, and he was ribbed and fibbed at in the Philistines' temple, he asked God, as he was blinded and his hair was shaved off, his power was gone, God grant him one more power to pull these two pillars down and take himself and all the people, the king of Philistines, all of them down with him.
	And it's, it is a term used in Israeli defense ideas.
	It's kind of what we would call the nuclear option, but they call it the Samson option, where they would basically launch their 250 to 300 nuclear weapons at any, all in anyone who is taking them down.
	So then there's another important thing.
	I mean, it's not, I'm, I'm sure a lot of people are getting pissed.
	Excuse me.
	I'm sure a lot of people are being upset with, um, What I'm saying, because it comes across as simplistic, but I've written a 135,000 word book on this to try to explain these difficult issues.
	A lot of this is coming from the past trauma of a passive dealing with the Holocaust.
	You know, if you can break this down in simple language, or the simplest language you can, rather, I know you can go off into Nostradamus and biblical... I'll keep it simple.
	Yeah, keep it simple is right.
	Keep it simple.
	The Holocaust, people did not do enough to prevent it.
	So now, people are trying to prevent what they view as a coming Holocaust, but in fact, in the action, may actually bring one on.
	Well, won't Israel view America's cozying up to Iran as the worst possible thing that could happen?
	I mean, they're kind of depending on us to be their partners in taking down any sort of nuclear capability that the Iranians may have.
	Well, I can totally understand if I were a small country with a superpower watching my back.
	I mean, I can't fault And we've got to remember, when you say Israel, because we all do this in America, Israel is not just one monolithic thing.
	There are upwards of 62-63% of the Israeli population that when Netanyahu was really rattling the saber, were telling him, no, we don't want to go to war, and it got so bad that even some of his highest cabinet members, including his former head of Mossad, actually publicly went out and castigated him, saying this whole concept of attacking Iran is idiotic.
	And I tell you, in Israel, they just don't do that.
	It's the leaders coming out like that.
	It was a huge shock.
	But there's a lot of people in Israel that don't see this as the solution.
	Actually, there are a lot of people in Israel who actually recognize what I'm saying, is that to prevent a second Holocaust, There are leaders in Israel that are doing all the wrong things to actually make it happen.
	By pushing war and pushing fear and not... John, if Israel attacked, would that be the beginning in your view or the view of Nostradamus as the beginning of Armageddon?
	For the prophetic record, Israel I don't think will attack.
	What I think will happen though is People underestimate just what Barack Obama will do.
	If right now we're in a period, which I did describe in the book, astrologically, a period where diplomatic breakthroughs are possible between now and 2014, you're going to see a period where it looks like it could be solved.
	But there are forces on all three sides.
	I mean, he was throwing eggs at Rouhani when he came home for talking to Americans.
	There are forces on all three sides that want this war to happen.
	And because of their religious and sometimes geopolitical views, they need this war to happen.
	And so they're going to try to sabotage this work on peace.
	And don't doubt that many of them are in this country, John.
	Oh yes, I talk about, I evolve the book through the entire process from 1992.
	I have long tracks of manifestos from the neoconservative movement evolving A grand strategy.
	Now, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but I will say this, that even if you read neoconservatism, you'll know that they're not a solely Republican view.
	Anyone who believes in American hegemony is the right thing, and it may be, can become converts to this conception.
	I think Barack Obama has become, in his second term, a convert to a lot of neoconservative ideas, and has nuanced them.
	As each president does since 1992.
	The big warning I have with Iran is don't underestimate this US president.
	He is like Mr. Spock.
	If he logically looks at all the possibilities for negotiation as being dead in the water, he will bomb you back to the Stone Age in 2016.
	So get real with it.
	So get real with it.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	Let's move on.
	Or actually, let's move back.
	I want a quick, if you can do it, summation of how Nostradamus, for those who don't know, came up with the prophecies that he did.
	Did he sit down and go into a meditative state?
	Did these things come to him in dreams?
	How did Nostradamus come up with what he came up with?
	Well, he did just about everything.
	He did dreams, he did magic mirrors, he did red moles, he did just about every kind of thing.
	He was the jack of all prophetic trades, divinatory trades.
	But the most interesting things that were the mainstay of what he did was that he built a brass tripod.
	So that he could repeat what the priests and priestesses of the oracles of Delphi used to have and he didn't have a fissure of rock with fumes that he could sit under in this brass tripod and then breathe in the fumes and get high on them and then start in his meditative state, starts seeing the future.
	He didn't have that, so he did what a lot of what he even says.
	He used the tradition of Brachydae, which is an Apollonian tradition in the Asian minor Greek colonies.
	It also didn't have a volcanic fissure, so they put a brisket with boiling gaseous, odorous column of mist that could come out of it, and then they put the tripod over that.
	Um, and, uh, he would walk on that.
	He wouldn't be wearing his street clothes like you see in all these many Hollywood renditions.
	I've been on many of them.
	I've tried to tell the producers and directors, please get Nostradamus out of his street clothes.
	He never did it that way.
	He was dressed up like a first or second century neo, uh, uh, neoplatonian mystic.
	And he would have a white hood and he would have a laurel branch.
	in his hand and long sleeve and he said I used to sit down and in the middle of the night and he would start a lilting mantra and then he would get calm and then he would feel a shaking suddenly happen in his robes like a wind coming through his robes this would happen after he took the end of his mantra he took The Laurel Branch and stuck it in the boiling water and then whipped it, the hot water stinging his foot and the hem of his robe.
	Then the robe would start shaking.
	He'd feel like he was like being blown up with some kind of spirit coming inside of him.
	And then divine splendor, he said.
	He'd be terrified at first and then he suddenly would lift into a divine splendor and he described it kind of as a continuum where all futures are happening at once.
	And it's our choices.
	Okay, we're going to talk about that in a moment.
	I want you to sit there during this break and think of what has Nostradamus been right about so far, and what has he been wrong about?
	And we'll come back to that in a moment.
	up at okay we're gonna talk about that in a moment i i want you to sit there
	during this break and think of what has most of the honest in right about so far
	and what has he been wrong about and we'll come back to that in a moment stay
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	It's a hard question to answer because, like I was saying before, the prophecies of Nostradamus, as he explained them, there's a continuum.
	History has happened all at once.
	And it's infinite possibilities.
	And his experience was to try to gauge which line of future actions we would take.
	Oh, come on, John.
	Give me some examples.
	I'm going to.
	I'm going to.
	You're asking a lot for a very complicated subject.
	I know I am.
	I'm going to give you the simple stuff, but you have to know the context.
	So, the situation is that there are definitely Prophecies that didn't work.
	For instance, he describes the Russians going all the way to the Rhine in World War II.
	Well, they didn't do that.
	Okay, now you're telling me the stuff he didn't do.
	Yeah, these are the goofs.
	He said it would happen.
	Well, it didn't happen.
	All right, well, I did ask for the stuff he did predict first, but if you want... Well, there's so much more that I thought I'd... All right, all right, the goofs.
	The other thing he described was in the 9-1-1 prophecies.
	This is one that will take care of both issues.
	He described Hollow Mountains to be hit by something from the sky, a terror from the sky at a 45 degree angle.
	The planes that went into the north and south tower in New York were at a 45 degree angle.
	New York, the new city, the great new city described.
	There was no great new city ever built near latitude 45.
	Got to understand that the maps in his day were off.
	They only had latitudes, not longitudes.
	And so that he got right.
	But he also said that the hollow mounds would fall into a boiling cauldron of their own debris into a tub or a cuvee.
	A cuvee is a cauldron.
	In old terms, but in modern French terms, it's tub.
	That's the name of the eight of the watertight compartment of eight stories deep that tried to keep the Hudson River out of the subway system that was built underneath the two towers.
	It was called the tub.
	So those three, all those things happened.
	But the last line, he said people would be poisoned by sulfurous waters that would flood.
	The tub was supposed to break.
	It didn't.
	So he's wrong about that.
	Well, people were poisoned by the air.
	But not in a flood.
	But not in a flood.
	That's right, not in a flood.
	So, he's wrong.
	So, one can look at that and say, okay, he got it wrong.
	Or, what makes it complicated is, we didn't quite go down all the steps of that timeline.
	It's true that Russians didn't get all the way to the Rhine.
	But maybe in that vision of an alternative future, the Normandy landings failed.
	And the attack, which he described in great detail, that happened in August 1944, where the Allies landed in Provence, his homeland.
	Remarkable string of prophecies describing the maneuvers of the Germans, the French, and the British, all the way up the Rhone River Valley, where they would meet the Russians on the Rhine.
	Well, that could have happened if Normandy failed.
	He also described that the way that Hitler would incorporate lands into Greater Germany, he got them all right except Switzerland.
	He said Switzerland would also be united, the German cannons of Switzerland.
	Well, that didn't happen.
	So rather than just brush it off as, oh well, he got it wrong, which he did, I, as a researcher and a scholar, a rogue scholar, to look deeper into that and just see, is there any evidence that the German cannons might have wanted to become, like the Austrians, a part of greater Germany?
	Well, they did.
	It was a very close vote.
	There was a 70,000 people in the Swiss Nazi party that were working as hard in the Swiss German cannons as the Nazis in Austria were, to pull that part of their country into the greater Reich.
	And they failed.
	But they were trying.
	Okay, he got a lot right.
	And if he didn't get every part of something right, I don't think that necessarily destroys the value of hitting the prediction.
	Just because there was one little tiny part of it that didn't come true.
	Well, and that's also my feeling, and I think what it also shows in people that say, well, if he doesn't get 100% right, then I'm not gonna agree with it, or I'm gonna blow him off.
	I'm thinking, well, that says more about the person saying that, and their attitude, the way they filter things, than it does about actually whether Nostradamus got the thing right or wrong.
	In my estimation, it says, that's a person who's using the term skepticism in the negative, and who doesn't know his study what the word actually means in Greek it means to investigate and do so without prejudice for or against I mean there's equally people that daily write me everything around the anything that comes into their head they just say Nostradamus saw it they're blind believers and they're just as off the mark for me as the many skeptics and
	He's somewhere in the murky middle.
	The murky middle?
	Well, murky middle is still pretty good.
	skeptic uh...
	uh... cnnet only negatives and there's people can't see anything wrong with what
	he says and they're both wrong about it and he's somewhere in the murky middle
	murky middle of murky middle is still pretty good i mean if you try to predict the future
	you'll find out very quickly if you had enough time to actually view whether you
	were right or wrong that you're mostly all wrong so uh... so what he did was absolutely amazing there's no
	question about it Any other hits or misses?
	Yeah, I mean, he would say at a time when people were in bullet carts and there was no electricity, he talked about the force of lightning so dreadful to the rod shall be with great efforts by man contained and controlled and then suspended in the air.
	He talked about the great air fleets in future battles piloted by half pigmen.
	You would hear their chants and demands on the very air itself.
	That's amazing.
	So everybody understands, these were made in what time span, please?
	From 1555 to 1566.
	So that's some pretty good stuff, because you couldn't even imagine half of that then.
	Two great scourges would hit two city ports on the ocean with an invisible plague.
	And the date is probably upside down.
	It's dating Hiroshima.
	He talked about how the French Revolution prophecies are quite remarkable.
	He names people outright.
	He calls Louis XVI Capet, which was his name that they forced upon him when he was deposed, Citizen Capet.
	He says, elected Capet will do this and that.
	And it's like only somebody who knew that intimate experience or that intimate information who could see that in the future could say it.
	He also said that at that time when they Destroy the king they'll think it's a new age and they'll think it's such a important thing the vulgar people the peasants and the Non-royalist because he was a biased royalist.
	He did not like what was happening in the future the Kings He said in the year 1792 they will consider it like a new age and they'll build and they'll create a new calendar That's exactly what they did in the year 1792 after the king was deposed and turned into a constitutional monarch and And before they killed him, which Nostradamus describes also in detail in his prophecies in the following year, the thing long ago forgotten shall be rediscovered by Pasteur.
	He will be considered a near half-godlike figure.
	Before and after, he will be much maligned by scandals that are foul.
	Louis Pastor, and he also said in that prophecy, this would take place when the current lunar transit, grand transit, comes to completion.
	Now, if you're an astrologer, you understand that he's dating it to the end of 1889.
	So, there's only two times that Pastor is mentioned in the Bible.
	One's the Pastor of Rome, so it's obviously the Shepherd of Rome, in Latin, Pastor.
	That leaves one other person who did something in 1889, discovered something that had been long ago forgotten and rediscovered by a man named Pasteur.
	He does it in 1889.
	He's called demigod.
	Actually, the British Encyclopedia Britannica called him le demi-homme.
	In the French term, that means demigod.
	And in 1994, his legacy was besmirched When somebody read and published his letters and notes of his experiments on vaccinations and discovered that he did not use animals, but he used almost solely street urchins.
	Poor children on the street were his guinea pigs.
	And so he was dishonored.
	Those things are remarkable.
	Nothing short of remarkable.
	For him to have made those predictions when he did, and for us to have seen them come true, Well, and I love how people who make a career putting Nostradamus down, I love how they're kind of predatory.
	It's like if you look at Nostradamus' prophecies as a big herd of wildebeest, and you're some skeptical lion, you're not going to go against the horns of the really powerful wildebeest.
	You're going to take the weak ones, the ones that are open to interpretation.
	You're not going to actually have to answer for these things, and when they do, they're so lame and so like... I mean, I do a lot of work with prophets, and there are a lot of them that I've dumped over the last 30 years, because they just weren't for real.
	This prophet is a lot of trouble for me, because it's a lot of study and work, and if there wasn't anything here, I would have dumped Michel de Notre Dame a long time ago.
	Alright, is there a modern, has there been since his time, anybody that you would consider to be in the same class as Nostradamus?
	Well, the problem is that if you ask that question in 1556, when Nostradamus was just in the midst of publishing his serialized prophecies, You know, nobody had the idea then that he would be this great prophet because it takes time.
	If there are people, well, for instance, even I'm making a stab at it.
	I document all of my predictions in my books and my articles at hogeprophecy.com.
	People get to see where I get it right, where I get it wrong, and I'm using myself as an experiment in divination and with the premise of my theory that It's a gift that everybody possesses.
	If they can get out of the way of it and allow it to happen.
	Okay, well my question was, is there anybody in his class?
	Are you saying you're in his class?
	If I were, it will not be judged by you, me, or this time.
	Just like if Nostradamus was in the same vein, if people were, and they were discussing of him.
	It takes time.
	The judge is events and the future.
	Right.
	Alright, well then, since Nostradamus, and other than possibly yourself, as history will judge you, has there been anybody that would be in the class of Nostradamus?
	No.
	No?
	No.
	Not that I have found.
	Alright.
	But there could be.
	It'll take time.
	But I have not, at this stage, looking at anyone, I mean, Edgar Cayce, There have been some very good ones who have also done us the gift of documenting their prophecies.
	Edgar Cayce documented all of his prophecies, and they are quite remarkable.
	I'm kind of surprised you didn't toss his name out.
	I want to move on to a few specifics, if we could.
	A super volcano erupting for years in the Arctic Circle?
	Yes, it's as large as the Arctic Circle.
	It's been erupting for years.
	I started writing about it in my almanacs, which I do at the end of each year for the next year.
	I'm working on 2014 right now and will be out just before Christmas.
	I started writing about this in predictions for 2009, predictions for 2010 and 2011.
	And once again, with 2013-2014 I also talked about it, which is my most recent book.
	And it is basically, this supervolcano, if it was something you could see, because of what it's ejecting into the atmosphere, it would be a major alarm bell for the world.
	But because what it's ejecting into the atmosphere is methane, Because it is coming out of the vents, quote-unquote, if you will, of thousands and thousands of methane-laced lakes all across the permafrost ringing the polar ice cap in Russia, Alaska, and Canada.
	When scientists go out on these lakes in the first frost in the Arctic, when the lake ice is clear, you can see the frozen contained bubbles in vast tracts of lakes.
	They poke one with a big iron stick, light a little match, and a 10-foot fireball comes out of it.
	These are happening 24-7 for years, and they, I'm afraid, are tipping the climate as we speak.
	Well, something's tipping it.
	Do you have any personal predictions about the climate while we're on the subject?
	Well, I have long stated, even on your shows and in my books, that the estimates of how fast this is coming are too cautious, and I'm Unfortunately, being proven right after 20 years of this, that it seems that science is now, as the data gets clearer, is seeing these things come closer.
	And I look at climate change, I predict that climate change for us will be even more significant planetary crisis that requires the whole world to fight it than Adolf Hitler was and the Japanese and Mussolini in World War II.
	Define what you mean by climate change.
	It means the world is warming.
	It is about to cascade into a warming event, that even though in prophecy, collective prophecies, there's a lot of prophecies that say that a sudden warm will actually bring an ice age, that in prophecy, in many traditions, but equally there are other predictions that Indicate the other timeline is that it just starts warming and we create artificially a Permian extinction.
	Which is where, just today, just actually an hour before I was talking to Art on Russia Today, they had a climatologist, Benson, from the University of Bristol, talking to Tom Thurman, or Thurman, I can't remember his name, uh... that uh... and his big picture show uh... talking about how more more science is coming out even today declaring that we are now triggering a cascade of venting uh... this sort of
	Greenhouse gas from our own artificial tipping of the scales, we're now starting to tip other larger sinks or pools of this trapped gas into the atmosphere.
	The permafrost volcano, if you excuse my metaphor, is one of them.
	The supervolcano of methane is even a more volatile greenhouse gas that captures the sun's heat and keeps it like a greenhouse inside the atmosphere.
	Just recently the United Nations has reported that though most of the heat is going into the oceans rather than heating up the climate's air, it does explain why there are these huge floods and violent storms that all have a common thread.
	They are full of rain, full of great floods from Boulder, from just a few days ago in China.
	With the typhoon that just hit.
	The second typhoon in the length of a week.
	I mean, this energy is being trapped by the ocean.
	The ocean is evaporating into the atmosphere.
	This is fuel for all the storms getting stronger.
	Well, that's going on, John, but also the ocean is rising.
	And there are islands in the Pacific that are virtually disappearing.
	Parts of the Philippines have had floods that You just cannot imagine unless you're either there or see an awful lot of footage of it, and we don't in the U.S.
	because we don't get a lot of news, frankly, of the rest of the world, but the oceans are indeed rising.
	Our own coastal cities had better watch out.
	And all of this is changing.
	I see it as well, and I don't think you need to be a prophet to understand what we're headed for.
	You know it's dangerous when you don't have to, when you don't need the prophets anybody to tell you when the future is on your doorstep.
	That's right.
	All right.
	There was something about Nostradamus and extraterrestrials, was there not?
	Well, I'm eventually going to put together All the prophecies and traditions of the world, including Nostradamus, and look at the visions of collective prophecy concerning man's destiny and humanity's destiny in space.
	And, of course, that destiny links it to finding other intelligent life or being found by intelligent life.
	Maybe.
	Maybe. And the most powerful and farthest distant prophecy of Nostradamus describes a time when human race has to
	leave the Earth because the sun expands and devours the Earth.
	And says that the Earth would continue to orbit, but it would orbit within the sun, and Mars would survive this and
	continue its revolutions around the sun.
	Now, he got the mass right.
	Here's this astrologer who's not an astronomer, and many astronomers will at least agree with him on this, that the mass of our Sun If it were to become a red giant in its old age, would expand to near or around the orbit of the Earth before it collapsed into a white dwarf.
	And, of course, he sees it happening sometime around the year 3797 AD, which is his last date in the future for his history of the future.
	They would say it's another 48 billion years from now.
	The astronomers.
	But he then says it really doesn't matter.
	The races of Earth have long departed.
	Many of them will live for a period of time in Aquarius, and many others will live in Cancer for time immemorial, forever, basically.
	And so he describes these areas as locations, just like he described all his other locations.
	It's the first time he uses astrological terms as a location, which means he's talking about the constellation in the sky, Aquarius and Cancer.
	It's intriguing to me whenever I hear more news about planets, of Earth-like planets, possibly being discovered in the constellation of Cancer, because one of those, or many of those, as well as in Aquarius, may be second Earths.
	Okay.
	David writes, you know, I don't accept his, meaning your, premise, that Nostradamus got anything right or wrong.
	His stuff is always simply too vague to verify that he got anything right or wrong.
	Well, a lot of people say that.
	How do you answer them?
	And that is a closed-mind statement, because, I mean, first off, notice how it's an exaggeration, and I get it all the time.
	It's an emotional statement.
	It's not a thinking statement.
	It's a statement like some of my great crazy girlfriends used to say, oh, you never do this, or you're always like that.
	It's sort of a, you never get it right.
	I can refute that simply.
	One of the simple things Nostradamus said is that in his death he would become far more famous and long-lasting in his prophecy than when he was alive.
	So he got that right.
	Louis Pasteur?
	Got that right.
	A man will walk on the corner of the moon and place his foot on alien land?
	Got that right.
	I mean, Hister, as the captain of greater Germany with the crooked cross?
	Right, right, right!
	I mean, you know, at a certain point when somebody makes a sweeping generality, it says more about their closed mind than it does about whether Nostradamus was right or not.
	Okay, I think that's fair.
	Hopi prophecies.
	I've had the Hopi on my radio program in the past.
	They're remarkable.
	They, like many native populations, look at comets as predictors of Very bad things coming, I guess is the way to put it.
	What has he said?
	We've got Comet Ison coming.
	Yes.
	Did he mention Comet Ison in Blue Kachina?
	Could it be Blue Kachina?
	Many prophetic traditions, including Astronomists, put a lot of stock in the appearance of comets.
	So yes, not just the Hopi, but in fact some of the most breathtaking prophecies of Nostradamus are his description of what would go on during the comet at 1577, which he dated as 1577.
	It came at 1577 and the things he described in the French wars of religion that were going on was amazing.
	So he also talked about a great comet related to a great comet falling that's either a portent of an actual comet, or it's actually some
	spaceship falling out of the sky, like Columbia, or it's a missile falling out of the sky, because
	sometimes he describes a comet dragging a trail of sparks.
	Or it could be that the comet is supposed to happen when his third and final Antichrist
	is annihilated.
	And it's intriguing to note, as I do in my book, Nostradamus and the Antichrist, which is also available at hogeprophecy.com, I described after a 25-year study as a detective to find out who are the candidates for... because it's supposed to be in our time, the third and final ones, dated for our time.
	John, I have a question, I'm sorry, and it's why.
	Why do we regard comets as portents of doom or bad things?
	Why?
	I think it's in our cellular memory, if you ask me personally.
	My meditation on it over these years is that when comets crash into the Earth, it usually completely upends the whole ecosystem.
	And ends one race's dominance and brings in the other.
	It ended the Mesozoic and brought the Cenozoic and the mammals after the dinosaurs died.
	I think in some way, I mean, Tom Robbins has talked about it in a funny way, but I think there is a kind of matter memory in us, in ourselves, that we don't, that, you know, in fact, one of our classic shows, and you don't need to push your button, I sometimes joke with you during the whole May 5, 2000 time we did a show, and I think what they, we were talking about axis shifts, and I think the last famous last words of the dinosaurs that they looked up and saw the comet hitting was, oh shift!
	Yeah, I'm sure.
	And I too have said that I think that it may be in our genetic memory.
	Something horrible happened, and it's embedded in us.
	We see a comet, and we kind of have a shiver of fear that is there for a reason.
	Well, and the strange thing is, call it coincidence or wicked coincidence or not, there is a whole lot of times when comets, like the Great Comet of 1812, even Tolstoy describes it in War and Peace, and Pierre, his main character, thinks it's an omen of good change, And it ended up being the year that Napoleon invaded Russia and burned down Moscow, fought the bloodiest battle of the 19th century, Borodino, and an apocalyptic but also great change and ultimately good happened from it for some people, the ones who won it.
	So I think also there's a deeper layer in us that we're afraid of change.
	We're afraid of our comfort zones, even if they're prisons, being in upheaval.
	And we are definitely, not just because of comments, but because of certain aspects in astrology, we are... You ever notice how everything that starts as a mass movement seems to be leaderless, and it crashes up against the status quo that eventually kind of crushes it in the last few years?
	It goes clockwork with Uranus's square with Pluto, which in layman's terms means Uranus, revolution.
	But when it's negatively affected, squared, it's like a mob.
	It's a revolution with all the right ideas and aspirations, but it has no leadership.
	So it just crumbles against Pluto, status quo, and Capricorn.
	You know, police, cops, and leather.
	You know, with APCs going up and down the streets of Boston looking for one guy.
	Closing down the whole town.
	This whole, this cycle has been here before, 250 years ago, when Pluto was transiting, the last time it was transiting Capricorn, which gave birth to the United States and the U.S.
	Constitution.
	Well, not the U.S.
	Constitution, but the Declaration of Independence.
	So, and middle classes.
	The concept was born during the last transit.
	It comes 250 years or so again, and you see the spread of middle classes now going global.
	The middle class that was born at the time of the last transit is now in a midlife crisis in Europe and America, not knowing where to turn next and where it's going next.
	And you have a new aristocracy.
	Rather than of blood, it's of the bottom line.
	It's those who have the gold are the aristocrats, and they rule.
	That's the golden rule.
	We've got to take a break here, so hold on.
	When we get back, I want to ask you about something.
	A guest on my program in the past, named Ed Dames, remote viewer, I don't know.
	I know a few things about Ed.
	I know his history.
	I know he really was in the CIA's remote viewing program.
	And I know that's the central tenet of what he says.
	That this is coming from our son.
	or no i don't know i i know a few things about it i know his
	history i know he really was
	in the cia's remote viewing program and i know that's a the central tenant of what he says
	that this is coming from our son and scientifically it is absolutely possible
	that the sun which is very quiet at the moment in fact uh...
	suspiciously will suddenly let go with something that could uh... cause
	mankind to be suddenly extinct
	Now, I wonder if there's anything either from Nostradamus or from yourself that would line up with any of that.
	Well, you know, on the record, I'm quite a critic of Ed's accuracy.
	over the years, but be that as it may, beyond looking at the subject, in looking into prophecy, one has to look at the continuing theme of fire in the sky, which could have two possible interpretations.
	You see it in the Bible, all the way up to Nostradamus, the talk about it.
	Now, a lot of that put together, all the traditions put together, and the things they go on to talk about, seem to describe something more like a global climate change warming event to me.
	But as a scholar of prophecy, I can't rule out that a fire in the sky could be the sun for having exactly and you're correct.
	And so is Ed on that matter.
	But that's a matter held by science, not by predicting it.
	That the sun could suddenly explode into what he calls a kill shot.
	It may happen or it may not happen.
	It could be a gamma ray burst from some star neighboring us.
	And like so much of what Nostradamus said, history will judge.
	And because it didn't happen last year or the year before or, you know, whatever, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.
	And, you know, he's seen this vividly again and again and again and again.
	History will judge, not us.
	Well, certainly that is true for all of us involved in interpreting, and in fact all prophets are interpreters of their own visions.
	And a lot of times prophets, even the best among us, misread their signs.
	And because I think what's more down-to-earth and valuable about the study of prophecy is that it really exposes us to what we project, what we hope, what we never get right in some people's minds, and in other people's minds we never get wrong.
	Both are too extreme, but it says something about the extreme belief systems of the mind.
	There are people who, there are prophetic traditions that actually work very hard to be self-fulfilling.
	It is, you know, this is, it says a lot.
	Prophecy actually, its subplot is a study of the human mind and what it projects.
	Alright, any other, from your point of view now, or from you, John, I would like any other predictions, we're going to open the lines here pretty soon for you, but I would like your predictions, or if you have them, the near term.
	Well, I, in August, released a book called Predictions for 2013-2014, which is the first time I strayed from the annual almanac.
	And it's a period that started May 1st and it ends in the final weeks of December 2014.
	And basically it's a period that takes us right up to the mid-decade where we have this opportunity that's granted especially to the United States and Europe because of their aspects with the transit of Saturn through Scorpio, which in layman's terms means This is all of the Saturn and Scorpio rules.
	Inheritances, corporations, money, taxation, death and transcendence.
	It is the issue, the debate that should be happening now about our world economy and about what will happen when we shut down the debt ceiling and things like that or whether we even need to jump into an entirely different economic system than we know of, even now, are the very things that can either be delayed or postponed by leadership and people, or this is the time right now to really start working things out.
	The problem is that unfortunate square that keeps coming back about six times in the last two, three years, and we'll do it one more year, that Uranus Pluto Square, which basically makes forward revolutionary progress leaderless and chaotic, and the forces that don't want to change in power and circles will be even more suppressive.
	Can you give me actual predictions, John?
	Well, for one thing, I don't think we're going to do a lot of reforming.
	And I think that we are probably heading for the bubble bursting in China in the year of the horse.
	The bubble bursting in China?
	Describe what you mean by that.
	The real housing bubble will burst in China.
	But this will also happen around 2014-2015.
	China will have its own reserve currency that will compete against the U.S.
	dollar.
	We are going to see a greater and greater influence of floods and extreme weather.
	Extreme winters and extreme summers.
	The only thing that you will say is constant is that it's not natural.
	And there is, fortunately, some awareness that's beginning to happen in the circles of the United States power.
	I also said that the next three hurricane seasons that New York and Washington, D.C.
	are going to be visited by hurricanes as significant, if not larger than Sandy, in the next three hurricane seasons.
	My pastime at doing that was in 1998 when I got on Sean Hannity and Colm's show after production, actually it was 99, I wrote it in 98 for a book called 1000 for 2000 Startling Predictions where I said the first five hurricane seasons in the new century, one of which would see either Miami or New Orleans destroyed by the first super storm hurricane.
	In the fifth season, Hurricane Katrina hit and Although it didn't destroy New Orleans, it definitely flooded it.
	So when I haven't done one of these seasonal, three seasons, five season things until just recently, so I hope I'm wrong, but if there's some good to come out of this, the other thing I predict is that if this tragedy should hit Washington or New York again and redouble the damage, it is at least hitting those nerve centers Where I call it a greenhouse Pearl Harbor event in the book.
	The Pearl Harbor awakened the sleeping giant of America in the last cycle of crises which was back in the late 30s and 40s.
	We are psychically in that new crisis, global crisis period again and the enemy is stupid and it's the consequence of climate change more than anything else.
	It's running out of control from our abuse of the Earth.
	And now the Earth is waging war on us, and we've met the enemy, and the enemy is us, and it's in us, it's not us, but it's our habits, and we define that, I define that as stupid.
	Alright, well, a lot of people are going to say, you're stupid, John, because you're talking about climate change, and climate change is stupid because it's not getting warmer, it's getting colder, and there was a recent report that said it's getting colder, and so the whole thing is stupid.
	Well, that was stupid talking.
	That's my response, and I will... Well, I'm telling you right now, I'm telling you right now, I watch messages, you know, as the show progresses, and as soon as the words, climate change, come out of your mouth, you might as well light a firecracker and throw it in the middle of a crowd, or smoke a dynamite.
	Climate change, climate change, climate change.
	Okay, there's three firecrackers.
	Well, trust me, I'm right about that.
	Oh, I know you are.
	You're all fired up.
	It's not just you, Art.
	It's my own.
	You should see what I'm seeing on my screen now.
	This has been going on for years.
	You know, you go against the wind of what people want sometimes with prophecy.
	Uh, and, and it's part of the occupational hazard that you will get people who will wildly love you for stuff because for a while it matches their biases.
	And then you'll get people because you're not living, your prophecies aren't upholding their, their hopes.
	It's upholding their fears.
	They'll hate you for it.
	I know.
	That's part of it.
	You've got to get thick skin, you've got to learn to live with it, is what you've got to do.
	Yeah, and I embrace it.
	It's my karma and freedom to be in this field, and I get it even worse because I make political predictions that get everybody upset with me.
	I know I'm doing my job when I get all left, right, and center upset with me.
	I've made presidential predictions since 1968.
	They're documented.
	I'm now 12 and 0.
	You want to make one now?
	Is it going to be Hillary next?
	I'm still not there with it yet.
	I usually make that prediction about 18 months in, and I am still delving into it.
	I think it hinges a lot on what's happening next week with the shutdown of the government, turning into the debt ceiling thing.
	And whether that creates a backlash for the midterm election primaries that might actually... Wait a minute.
	You're saying that you're waiting for events to show you who's going to be up and who's going to be down?
	That's not good in the prediction field?
	Well, no.
	All right.
	Now, come on.
	You've got to look at my website and see that when I made the prediction that Barack Obama... I'm a doctor.
	You're on the phone.
	I don't need a website.
	I've got you.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Let me speak.
	If you go to hookprophecy.com, in 2007 March, I described who would be president and how the two people that run and how one would lose it, Hillary, if she didn't deal with her Iraq war stance and Barack Obama would use that to come to power too soon.
	And he would be not ready for the job and for his destiny would be president in 2012.
	Now, I've been saying, documented on the thing, that I have a very strong feeling that you will see Hillary try again, although I think that's waning.
	I do think Jeb Bush has got a greater chance, and I do think it will be a Republican in the next period.
	I'm just not clear yet.
	You know, it's like, I understand the bias.
	You have it, everybody has it.
	It's like, push a button and give me a prediction.
	If I were doing this, I could do that for you.
	Well, I like predictions.
	It doesn't work that way.
	You know, one thing about Ed Dames, even though he's wrong, wrong, wrong a lot, lot, lot, he sticks his neck out and he makes the predictions.
	So do I. So do I, and I even document it.
	I even document it in writing.
	Well, I mean, Ed's are too.
	They're on the broadcast.
	But you can look at my documentations and you'll find that they're about 80% right where Ed's are not.
	All right.
	Give me a sense of your 80% hits.
	What have you been right about?
	12 and 0 on the predictions for presidents.
	I make the prediction at least 18 months in print before the election.
	I base it on the popular vote.
	And so that's one.
	That's 12 and right there.
	I predicted in this book 2013-2014 that using the astrology, and I said this in early April
	of this year, I said there was going to be a chemical weapons attack in early May and
	late May that would be used as an excuse to try to get into Syria.
	You made that prediction when?
	Yes, I made it in April 10th.
	And it happened at the end of April and it happened at the end of May.
	I then reminded people at hogeprophecy.com, because I had made it earlier, that these things had happened.
	I also predicted that the most significant period of danger in Syria would be around end of August, end of October.
	Fortunately, that did come, but we verted that for now, because it's not written in stone.
	One of the things you do when you make predictions that millions of people read is you actually start changing the future.
	I mean, I have people even in Obama's cabinet that read me, and the CIA, and other places.
	How do you know that?
	Do you think I'd tell you on a public line?
	Why not?
	Well, I mean, why not?
	I think it's obviously why not.
	Just whisper it in my ear here.
	Ha ha ha ha.
	Ha ha ha ha.
	I mean you really know this to be true.
	you Yeah.
	And they wish to remain anonymous.
	Of course.
	Of course.
	Okay, so you've had some... I mean, they're all what you've given me, except for the presidents at the beginning.
	The rest of them have been pretty near-term predictions, you would admit, right?
	Well, yes, but also on your show I've been talking about a lot of the climate change stuff we were talking about as far back as 1994 when it didn't seem so close at hand.
	And you can go back in your archives of all the shows and see all the times that I have stated a lot of things right out there that did happen.
	You also see the things I didn't get right.
	You want to name a few of those?
	Well, I think me and the Previous Pope, John Paul II, hold the record of trying to predict his own end and get it wrong more than anybody.
	I mean, even John Paul II believed he was going to die in the year 2000.
	This last Pope stuff?
	Yeah, and so I was completely wrong about that.
	And yeah, so that's one I can think of at the moment.
	All right, I'll tell you what.
	I want to open the lines and allow some people to ask questions.
	How would that be?
	That sounds fine.
	All right, so back in Washington, open ze lines.
	And hold on, because we're going to take a break here.
	You're listening to Dark Matter, raging in the nighttime.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Happy to be here.
	And I predict...
	When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school...
	He said, oh don't worry, he won't bite, and I yelled back, but I do.
	No, it's fine, you can bite back.
	Double Scorpio, man.
	Feel free to bite back, just as I mentioned, and this goes for the audience, too.
	Keep it clean, but intellectually, take a big bite.
	Here we go.
	Dark Matter, you're on the air with John Hope.
	Hi there.
	First of all, Art, you sound great.
	It's great to have you back.
	Thanks for coming back.
	Really appreciate it.
	Great to be here.
	Thank you.
	You guys were talking about Last Pope just briefly.
	That book is, just for the biographies on the Popes, it's still worth it today.
	I think nobody could have predicted what would have happened after 1999-2000 that may skew the
	prediction there, but the book, for the history of the Pope's, is really worth it.
	Are you speaking...
	Are you speaking about my book?
	Yeah.
	Oh, all right.
	Yeah, The Last Pope, The Decline and Fall of the Church of Rome.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	The question I have for you, John, is not so much who's going to... It's an American political question, and that's, do you think we're going to see, when we This election cycle, not the midterm, when we get to the presidential, are we going to have two parties or are we going to have three?
	Are the Republicans going to throw the Tea Party out and we have three parties or are the Republicans going to be able to swallow and manage this Tea Party problem and we're going to have our regular A binary choice, or is it going to be a three-way choice?
	Oh no, I think that's a great question.
	John?
	Yes, and I finally can get an opportunity to say something very distinct and unveiled.
	Yes, there's going to be a split.
	I've been writing about it for three years, and I have never considered, and I'm a former Republican.
	I've never been a Democrat.
	Uh, I have in viewing the future, I've always thought the Republicans had made a kind of Faustian choice to bring in the Tea Party so that they could attempt to take back the House and the Senate.
	The thing I've always cautioned the Republican Party is that the price is that you have to follow the Tea Party's view.
	And this is, um, I've always said the Tea Party is its own party.
	And I think in its own evolution, it needs to actually become its own party.
	And it will.
	You're predicting that that is going to happen?
	The Tea Party will split from the Republicans and become their own party?
	Yes.
	Wow.
	I guess that's possible.
	We'll certainly write that down as a prediction.
	My goodness.
	All right.
	Dark Matter, you're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Good evening, gentlemen.
	How are you?
	Just fine.
	Great!
	My name is Kelly.
	I'm a sensitive and I have a question mainly about the Mayans.
	A lot of people that, in my opinion, have I guess research, you know, the Mayans, they thought that the world was going to end around the year 2000.
	Of course, that wasn't true.
	They never predicted that.
	Right.
	So here's my question.
	They talked about it in a 25,000 year cycle, as if every 25,000 years, you know, some sort of big thing is going to happen.
	Well, actually, sorry just to interject.
	Sure.
	And we'll go back and forth, definitely, but I just got to qualify that the 13th Baktun cycle is a little over 5,000 years, and the concept of 25,000 years is often coming from what I would call the gringos from the North.
	Uh, who even some of them even try to say they're reincarnated Mayan mystics, uh, who've made quite a run on books on this subject for about 3,000 titles in the last 25 years.
	Right.
	I made a point to wait until 2012 was over, and then I wrote my book, Nostradamus 2012 The End of End Times, a month afterwards to say, what happened?
	Sure.
	That makes sense.
	So, I guess, going a little bit further into my question, being a sensitive, I've been feeling some really strong energies, I guess, is basically the only way to put it, about something is going to happen here pretty soon.
	Yes, it could be, you know, the global warming.
	It could be anything.
	It could be a culmination of all of the things together.
	So here's my question.
	What do you think will happen in the next, say, 10 to 15 years when it comes to people becoming enlightened, people understanding what's really going on, the fact that we're really destroying the only planet that we live on?
	And what do you think we can do to fix it?
	First off, there is no collective enlightenment, if you're asking me as a person on the path of meditation.
	My experience is that there is no collective enlightenment any more than there's such a thing called a forest or a humanity.
	These are tools of communication that we have turned into identities that makes us ignore the real source of enlightenment, which is one individual at a time.
	So we're not going to wake up one morning and all sing Kumbaya and be holding hands?
	No, because the very nature of the mob psychology is unenlightened.
	It tends to look at how masses of people behave.
	Do you see an army of Jesus's, an army of Buddha's, an army of Mohammed's?
	You might see an army behind Muhammad, but Muhammad's all alone.
	Buddha came alone.
	Jesus came alone.
	The great teachers have always been on their own alone.
	They may gather a multitude of followers and even be the cause of religions being created.
	But the very phenomenon of enlightenment is alone.
	It is here now and only with you and nobody else.
	Now.
	Okay, so I answer if you don't see it.
	If.
	If.
	The strange paradox.
	The cosmic joke of this is, if enough people take on the responsibility of their own self-awareness, and there's prophecies that look at this, you will see, as a symptom of more and more people working on themselves, a change in consciousness.
	But if it's thought, if people work on themselves to change the collective, that's another subtle form of missionarism.
	And it's not, it doesn't work that way.
	Buddha didn't go out into the forest to find his enlightenment so he could help the world.
	He wanted to find out how he picked.
	And then ended up later being a Bodhisattva, a person who helped others.
	But he did not go out there so that he could ingrandize himself as some Mother Teresa or something.
	All right, Dark Matter, you're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Yes, hi, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	I got a question for John.
	Sure.
	Uh, John, uh, when, since you're a little kid.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	I think that was an attack.
	It was some kind of an attack, uh, John, but it was not well, well executed because you couldn't hear.
	Yeah.
	He said, he said something dumb and unfortunately he didn't say it clearly.
	So case you're on.
	Hi, how you doing?
	Okay.
	This is Jim from Southern Arizona.
	I want to say you still have a spring in your voice.
	Thank you, Jim.
	And I think that's the result of doing what you love to do and do well.
	So, and I think those young ladies in your life are really, you know, a daughter does miracles for people.
	It did for me later in life.
	Right, they do keep you.
	So, do you have a question for John?
	Yeah, I wanted to ask John, I'm incredibly impressed by your research ability, and I just wanted to know, do you regard yourself kind of as prophesizing or prognosticating?
	Your research ability and history does repeat itself.
	Do you regard yourself as just a really gifted researcher, or do you think that you do have a little more insight than the average?
	Well, the answer is yes.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	And yeah, okay.
	In other words, it would be my view, for whatever it's worth, that John started out as a Nostradamus scholar.
	And I think now, John, if I'm listening to this and hearing it all correctly, has begun to think of himself as a prophet.
	Okay, well, I'm all agreeing with that.
	I'm a Buddhist myself, but I think that I think he's very gifted in what he's looking at.
	Well, here's the thing that happens, I think, to explain how this evolution from my own side has happened.
	It's a subjective science.
	It's about the subject.
	It's about the person who makes predictions.
	And if one goes deep into prophecy, one has to, at a certain point, encounter the mystic theurgy inside oneself.
	One has to start It's just like if I were an expert on love, but the strength of my expertise was that I never loved anybody, because I could then be objective and look at love from afar.
	In the more subjective world of life, that would not qualify me to know through experience anything about love.
	If you're going to know about something as subjective as prophecy, you have to immerse yourself totally and deeply into it.
	You do have to become your own Nostradamus.
	Agreed.
	And I would say, Art, I would beg that you have this gentleman on for the New Year's show.
	And I don't necessarily count him amongst the 100, but I love the ant and the ding, ding, ding on the predictions.
	And let's put him to the test.
	OK, well, we'll do exactly that.
	And we'll also do, of course, predictions.
	We do that every year, John, for the coming year.
	Predictions for the coming year.
	And a remarkable number of them actually turn out pretty well, frankly.
	Well, by the time we do the show, I should have my about 36,000 words of predictions for you.
	I'll probably have it done around the 15th of December or no later than on the winter solstice.
	I see.
	All right.
	Well, I'm still waiting for these people other than that one clown that came along and didn't say anything meaningful at all.
	Yeah, we're all Hidden Runners.
	Listen to me.
	If you've got, yeah, they're Hidden Runners.
	I don't really want a Hidden Runner.
	I want somebody to come on here and say, look, something like they're selling.
	Well, all right.
	They're trying to sell me on the screen that, oh, he's just selling his books.
	He's just mentioned his books again and again and again.
	He's mentioning his books.
	All right.
	You want to say that?
	Say it here.
	Yeah.
	And actually have the guts to come on here and say it.
	You're on the air with John Hogelow.
	Yes, hello.
	Hi.
	This is Art.
	Hi, Art.
	Yes, it is.
	Hi.
	Double Roswells from the great state of Texas there.
	Thank you.
	I got a question there for John.
	I'm a Christian.
	I've studied the Bible a lot, and I was wondering, have you ever studied the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Specifically to the King of the North and the King of the South, what are your thoughts there?
	Well, in context to what?
	Well, what's happening now.
	I know the King of the South and the King of the North, there's a history behind it.
	You can go and you can match them up with, you know, Israel and things that's happened in their past.
	But the last bit, right there at the end, Well, the reason why I asked your context is that often times when people come to ask me questions whether it's about Buddhist prophecy or Biblical prophecy or others, they come with their own ideas inside themselves and they
	You know, I sometimes need to know what your context is, because there's a whole lot of different interpretations of that.
	For instance, Daniel, which was then later kind of put on steroids by St.
	John the Divine in the book of Revelation, there's a very strong school of prophecy that says that a lot of what Daniel was talking about was indeed fulfilled by Alexander the Great and the Maccabean rebellion.
	in Israel and other things.
	Similar, there's a movement in Christianity that also sees that the book of Revelations is a metaphorical prediction for events that happen up to the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans, and has nothing to do with our future.
	One of the most important and powerful evidences of this is Revelation 13, which talks about the number of the beast.
	Where John, who was either the Apostle or one of the many Johns in early Christianity, there's still some dispute about that, basically wanted people very badly to get this code broken, where he said, if you take these... Before the Arabs made numbers, letters in the alphabet had a numerical value.
	So, to get the term 666, Or 616, which are the two numbers in the biblical surviving scriptures.
	The way you can do that in Greek numerics of letters and Hebrew is 666 is Neron Kaiser.
	Because it was written in Greek, Book of Revelation, Neron Kaiser is Nero Caesar.
	That is the name of Nero and that is the man who's supposed to be on the coin That is the Antichrist.
	He is the Emperor of Rome.
	The 616 version of the Book of Revelation actually looks at the, spelled out, Neron Caligula.
	Now, Caligula was also damned by a lot of Christian mystics and Jewish mystics because he attempted to build the Temple of Jupiter in the holiest of holies, in the shrine of the Temple in Jerusalem.
	All right, we need to hold it there and we need to keep these fairly short, John.
	We have a lot of people trying to get on.
	Somebody named Hollow Mountain says, come on, Art, you're not challenging him on anything.
	Nonsense!
	I've challenged him on all kinds of things.
	Hollow Mountain, I think your name should be Hollow Head.
	Unless you're willing to come on here and intellectually defend what you're saying, Um, then don't send me any more messages.
	Um, I want to hear from you.
	The number is 855-REAL-UFO.
	Easy number.
	You're on the air with Jon Ho.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	I'm sorry?
	I said, uh, Como esta Cana?
	Um, anyways, uh, my questions, I had, uh, two, uh, one was if he thinks maybe Ted Cruz has any chance of maybe becoming a, uh, presidential candidate for the, uh, 2016s.
	Or candidate, yeah.
	Third party.
	But a presidential.
	Maybe that third party he talked about.
	Yeah.
	But I just thought with maybe, you know, some of the stuff he's done lately and just, you know, might put him over the top, like, Obama did in the previous and then my other question was
	about earth changes Just I'm not a big. I'm not a big believer in global
	warming I think I personally think it has more to do with the way
	the world works to begin with But I've always been interested in the predictions of earth
	changes and leading up to the end days Okay, so for the first thing
	Yes, Cruz will definitely be a candidate, but so will Rand Paul and Mario Rubio
	And for the second question, it wasn't really a question.
	Basically predictions about Earth changes.
	You know, like Edgar Cayce has a lot of safe zones.
	And your question about that?
	Nostradamus' predictions about safe zones.
	What are good areas to live in?
	It is a common question, and prophecy does describe a lot about that.
	I know that in the prophecies of the Mormons, one of the reasons why Utah was chosen as a safe place, it would have been very interesting if Mitt Romney had one, because we would be talking a lot about these fascinating prophecies that that Joseph Smith created before he died, or assassinated
	and martyred, that sound very similar to the breakdown of the government, and that
	basically the people in Utah take his prophecies very seriously in the Mormon Church, and
	they are preparing what they feel is a safe haven for their view of the world being sustained
	after the chaos.
	This is...
	I know where there's a safe haven, John.
	It is beyond the city of the gaudy lights.
	It is the Hump City.
	Hump.
	would consider it safe or you consider safe? With behind the wandering mind is
	the only safe place. Yes, the Noah's Ark of Consciousness.
	Where is that?
	It is in consciousness.
	There is no safe place in the world that's about to enter a planetary crisis, unless you live on Mars, which is a little hard to do.
	There are volunteers.
	Yes, well, if they could find a beach, I'd go there, but it's all a beach.
	The... yeah, if you ask me, from looking at the different places, I would say that there's no safe place but intelligence.
	Because that will make the need of us to hide from stupid disappear.
	All right.
	You're on the air with John Okolo.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, Eric Roswell.
	Thank you.
	I have a... well, I've noticed that Master Diamonds He made a statement about the Sun, and I think the Bible actually supports that in Revelation.
	It says, uh, death and hell, astronomically... Wait, wait, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, back up.
	What did Nostradamus say?
	Oh, he talked about 3173, where the Earth would be enveloped by the Sun.
	Okay.
	3797 A.D.
	Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
	It's in the preface of Nostradamus' prophecies, yeah.
	But basically, um, the Bible seems to, uh, I'd say the same thing, and probably less, I don't know, more obscurely.
	Death and hell, where death occurs on the earth, where hell is located beneath the earth, and the lake of fire I would assume would be the sun, so therefore the lake of fire the earth would be thrown into would be the sun.
	Well, it's an interesting metaphorical idea.
	I've never heard it quite that way.
	That is interesting.
	Uh, I don't think that probably was intended in the original, uh, scriptures, but, uh, but, you know, it's like, uh, we're all, we're all like picking straws in the future.
	So maybe that's what the lake means.
	Maybe.
	Maybe.
	All right.
	Hold on.
	This is Derek in Arizona.
	Hey, Derek.
	Hi there, Art Roswell.
	I hope you're not tired of hearing it.
	No, no, it's just a shortened way to say welcome back and all that without saying it.
	I understand.
	I think it's a good idea.
	Thank you.
	I have two questions for John.
	The first one is, what is the most long-reaching or the furthest out prediction that you have that you're comfortable talking about?
	Wow, let's see.
	Wow.
	Well, yes, the five evolutions of human politics that will expand in the next thousand years.
	I didn't mean to laugh.
	No, it is kind of a... It's laughable.
	Yeah, that's a huge... I'm sorry.
	It's politics.
	Yes, I'm developing a book on it.
	A lot of people think Everybody in their own time thinks that whatever they've attained is the peak and the end.
	It's kind of the hubris of every present period in history.
	But I look at what's beyond democracy.
	And there are, in prophecy, five major evolutions of politics in the human race that can take 700 to 1,000 years into the future.
	Wow.
	And the first... I would like to know what is beyond politics.
	Lay it on us.
	Beyond democracy.
	Democracy, I'm sorry.
	Well, I'm ready.
	I'm ready for something better.
	What is it?
	Yes, what is it?
	What is it?
	What is it?
	Okay, the first thing is we don't live in a democracy.
	We will confront the fact that we live in a mobocracy where the mob rules.
	and that usually leads inherently into a period of fascism
	which i've heard a lot of democracy i'm sorry john if it's not democracy
	i don't know if you know uh...
	it i'm i'm yeah i know
	i know you want it but you guys keep asking profound questions
	You're going to have to have a little patience.
	I can't talk.
	If you keep talking, I can't go through the process.
	I know, John, but you destroyed your own premise by saying, what's beyond democracy?
	And then you said, we don't have democracy.
	No, I did.
	No, let me finish my sentence.
	Go ahead.
	I am laying out a picture.
	You guys want it freeze dry and I'm going to talk about a thousand years of political evolution.
	Give me at least a minute of that thousand years so that I can bring this down to an understandable form rather than talk for a hundred thousand words.
	What we have is mobocracy.
	It's going to go through a crisis.
	It's already going through it, and it will end in fascism, which will then bring us to a republic.
	A true sense of what this country and what democracies have always aimed to have and have not had.
	A res publica, based on humanitarian and democratic values, is a system based on law.
	Those of the law will rule.
	And about 200 years after that, it will evolve into what is called meritocracy.
	And not this meritocracy of preppies of Harvard, but it is where those who have the knowledge and the skill rule.
	They will rule and it will be balanced so that it doesn't become another kind of benevolent fascism.
	They will be ruling because they will, with each step in the learning of how to wield power, they will also learn how to wield compassion and meditation.
	That will be followed in a few hundred years by dharmatocracy.
	That is, those who are enlightened, those who are mystics, those who are Christ's and Buddha's and Socrates' and Pythagoras' and Rabia's, they shall rule A governed system which eventually leads to what I call Anartocracy, which is a form of true anarchy.
	Not the way it's been completely destroyed by people who think burning things down is anarchy.
	It means... But where individuals are able to govern themselves.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Where it is understood the perfect balance between individual and community freedom and responsibility.
	So that's in a nutshell.
	Can I say something else?
	I'm finished.
	Okay.
	You said earlier that we would never get to a great enlightenment.
	Now you've just told me that we're going to have a period of governance that is of great enlightenment.
	That's what you heard.
	I was answering that woman about the period of 15 years.
	Okay.
	Okay, I'm with you there.
	What originally disturbed me about what you said was that I'm going to take you from democracy on up, you know, into the future, and then you said, but we don't have democracy.
	Yes, I was beginning my analogy is that the first step is to understand, let me be clearer then, Because, obviously, I'm responsible for you not understanding what I'm saying.
	To empower communication, one has to be responsible for when it doesn't work, even if, as you all know.
	So, let me clarify that the first step is understanding what we don't have, but believe we do have.
	I should have said that at the beginning.
	Oh, well, that would have cleared it all up.
	Caller, anything else?
	You're my editor!
	Right, just like we don't exactly have a republic right now, but we think we are a republic.
	Yes, my second question is, you know, somebody I think tried to ask you a question similar before, but the way I would like to put it is, what percentage of your prophecies is from discernment and research, and what percentage is from divination, meditation, or vision?
	Great question.
	A lot of what I do is collecting knowledge and seeing like, okay, here's knowledge that gives me five pathways that this thing in the present can go to, and then what becomes divination is that I choose which of the five is what we're going to take.
	But it is based a bit on both when I do that.
	The other thing is just subjective.
	I can't explain why I wrote in 1983 in an article that when Reagan was running for a second term, I wrote in the article that he'd be a two-term president, followed by Bush Sr.
	as a single-term president, and then there'd be a two-term Democrat in 1992.
	At that point, I didn't know who it was.
	Now, you know, why that comes out of my mouth And it comes out with a certain ease and a certain quality that makes me respect it because that's usually when it's very effortless.
	That's usually when it's got something going.
	In the same article, I almost didn't put it in the article because my buttons were pushed by it.
	I said there was going to be a guy crawling over the fence, the iron fence, who was going to try to abduct Ronald Reagan in the Oval Office because he was this crumpled employee.
	And it happened in June.
	I said, oh man, That is just so specific, but so weird.
	And I don't feel good with it, but I'll go with it.
	I'll hang with it, and we can do the eh with that one, too.
	Well, it turned out that there was an unemployed electrician who was climbing over the wrought iron fence and was shot and wounded.
	And when he was interrogated by the Secret Service, he wanted to abduct Ronald Reagan because he was angry about a job.
	And when that happened, I started thinking, wow, That's not coming from my conscious mind.
	That's not coming from extrapolating in a futurological way different possible datas and streams.
	That's coming out of the blue and I don't know where that's coming from.
	And so that's about 10% of my work is that, where did that come from?
	Give me line three, please, because our ability to control the lines right now is kapooey.
	So give me line three and I'll say you're on the air with John Hope.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Rob Lowe.
	Thank you.
	I had a question for John there.
	I was thinking as he was talking about this with possibilities Okay.
	the French or the Swedish shotgun in World War II. If it's possible that Nostradamus
	maybe looked at something the way that the Schrödinger's cat theory maybe looked at stuff.
	And I'll take my answer off air. Okay. Okay. I don't quite understand the question. Oops.
	It was kind of... That's too bad because he just went away.
	Yeah, I know.
	I was going to try to catch him before he did it.
	I think, if I understand the question, well, here's what I understand, and I'll just go the best I can with it.
	One of the most important ways to get into Nostradamus's head is to think like a Frenchman.
	That's similar to the way Americans think today about the world, that they're the center of the known world, whether they know about the world or not.
	The French also have a collective conditioning that makes them very arrogant in the same way, and Nostradamus in the 16th century was no less a Frenchman.
	And even more so, try to see the view from one corner of France that he came from, the Midi, the Provence, the southern end of France.
	The French Museum of Surrender.
	Yes, you do, yes.
	Oui, oui.
	And the great prophecies of the Inspector Clouseau will help, but ultimately what happens is, if you see the world, when the French are involved, its prophecies get very clear.
	The fact that there are French bases... I said that the French would get involved in an attempt to attack Syria with the Americans.
	I wrote that in April.
	They were the only people on board for the strike.
	Everybody else dropped out with Obama's attempt to do a punitive strike.
	I would like to add for a change.
	Yes.
	I wonder why there's such clarity about the Persian Gulf and this battle between ships that have been melted and sunk.
	How is Nostradamus so clearly talking about the Strait of Hormuz as Carmania, which is what the Persian side, the Iranian coast side of the Strait of Hormuz, where 20% of the oil the world passes, That's where their bases are, where their terror boats would come out.
	And he's describing the Ishmaelites coming out of there in some suicidal naval attack out of Karmania, which is the northern coast of the Strait of Hormuz in Iran.
	Why so clear?
	There must be a French connection here.
	And there is.
	The French are building a base in the UAE.
	All right.
	We've got to move quickly, John, because we don't have a lot of time, but we've got a lot of callers.
	You're going as fast as I can.
	Okay, call Line 4, please, back there.
	Okay, you're on the air with John Hope.
	Croswell, Darden, how you doing?
	Very well, thank you.
	This is Earl, truck driver in South Dakota.
	I had a question for John, what he thought was going to come out of this current debt crisis within Obamacare, and I wanted to know what kind of legacy that President Obama was going to have after he's out of office.
	Oh, that's a good question.
	Alright, I think I've got control of the lines here again.
	Go ahead.
	I've been writing a lot about Obamacare, and I said it would, at a time when it was, everybody thought it was dead in the water at the end of 2009, my own Oracle work said that by the end of March it would be passed into law, this huge misshapen monster that would take 20 to 25 years to fix.
	But I still feel very clear, no matter how many attempts have been, for better or worse, we're stuck with it.
	And no one's going to overthrow it.
	So it's time for people to fix it.
	He also asked about President Obama's legacy.
	I think in the end, strangely enough, though it doesn't feel like now, he will be remembered more positively for Obamacare than negatively.
	I think it'll be one of the things he can take out of this presidency and historically crow about but it'll take twenty years
	and be right up there with social security uh... no because social security work
	uh... and it's not working well and it was built on a pretty good
	promise uh... this things a mess
	And I also said that it will never get voted down because the pharmaceutical industries and the insurance industries are very much behind it sustaining.
	So, it goes beyond the President.
	You're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Hello, turn your radio off, please, and proceed.
	Yes, turn your radio off.
	Hello, my name is Dan.
	I'm from St.
	Paul, Minnesota.
	Okay.
	Hi, Dan.
	I have a question to ask.
	I'm going to take us back in time, back when the first movie came out, The Man Who Saw Tomorrow, with Orson Welles.
	What I wanted to ask was, back to the first prediction that they made for the future predictions, they said that when Helix Comet would pass through, that there would be like a worldwide drought or something
	like that and then people would become man-eaters or something like that. Yes. Now, some of that
	movie got some things wrong, but then again the movie got some things right. Yes. Because there was a
	Midwest drought, I remember back then, that caused a lot of problems with the drought and
	stuff like that. Yes. But, and it was the same with the earthquake that they did in the movie too
	with the...
	The prediction was a year later, then there was a small, kind of a larger earthquake in California, but it wasn't enough to be what they said in the movie.
	And 1999 was the beginning of the War of the Antichrist, rather than the end.
	I remember writing about it, and I was against that idea.
	And then I had, say, a mea culpa in 1997 saying, yes, I think That movie, which I consider the greatest documentary ever done on Nostradamus.
	Yes, I think it's a great movie.
	Yeah.
	And Orson Welles, I'm a big fan ever since I was a kid when I saw him in Macbeth.
	So, I love the guy.
	Right.
	So, technically there wasn't really a worldwide drought, right?
	And then people didn't come in either.
	No, and they even used that amazing Bruce Pennington painting of the guy crawling Uh, with the steel eyes, very frightening.
	Uh, a picture from his Eschatus book, which is a remarkable rare book of illustrations based on his, Bruce Pennington's vision of Nostradamus's prophecies way in the distant future.
	Remarkable.
	I highly recommend people see that book.
	You're talking about the famine prophecies of Nostradamus which of course they wanted to tag it to perhaps what was going on in Ethiopia at the time that that was made in 1982.
	I think there was some bias in that but it is a real problem and it is something the prophecy basically says you know you'll see it come in certain regions here and there and then the famine becomes worldwide.
	It should be so great that the That the bark will be stripped off the tree and the baby taken from the breast.
	And he talks in the prophecy, there's two prophecies, about this strange pipe that comes through the floor and makes these mountains of grain when people are eating their fellow men.
	And it kind of gives the idea that there's going to be a lot of people that have lots of food where large tracts of the world are eating each other.
	And I don't like the way that sounds more and more topical.
	Yeah.
	You're on the air with John Hogue.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Going twice.
	Oh, wait a minute.
	I don't have them on the air.
	Now I'm not in control anymore.
	Give me six.
	Give me line six.
	All right.
	Line six.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Thanks.
	I want to start again.
	George.
	George.
	Yeah.
	We're not allowed.
	I'm not going to let people put their last name on the air.
	I didn't.
	I just said this.
	Yeah, you did.
	You did.
	So, George, I took that out.
	Yeah, you put your name in there.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I thought I said Martinez.
	That's where... Wait a minute!
	Stop that!
	That's not my name!
	Do you have a question for John?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I have about 500 paranormal books on my bookshelves, and about 20 on Nostradamus, and none of them agree with each other.
	What makes you think that you're right and the other people are all wrong?
	Well, finally, somebody's speaking in absolutes.
	I'm sure that if you go back and look at those books, because I'm sure I've got all of them too, because I have just about everything that's been published on Nostradamus, you cannot absolutely say in absolutes that they don't all disagree with each other.
	That's an emotional statement, and I'm absolutely certain, I'd put money in the bank on it, that if you go back, every single one of those books will have at least one thing they all agree on.
	They're all writing about Nostradamus.
	They obviously agree that he's a very interesting man, whether they want to take him down or turn him into a god.
	And the fact still remains that Nostradamus predicted he'd become world famous after his death, and he did.
	So, you know, they're all obviously writing those books because that prophecy is true.
	Or because he's a really interesting guy.
	Well, and he made predictions.
	What made him interesting?
	It wasn't his rose water recipes or how he loved to cook black cherries, which he also wrote about.
	OK.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	And let's see if we can go here.
	Oh, good.
	Thank God.
	You're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	OK, is it me?
	It is you!
	Who else could it be?
	I can't say!
	No, you know what?
	That's really unfair.
	We're going to do something about this.
	Poor people who call up.
	They're always asking, is it me?
	And that's... I understand why.
	They have no... We've got many, many lines, right?
	We have many lines, and so we've got to do something.
	I want a big gong or something so people know when they're on the air.
	Go ahead, ma'am.
	Oh, okay, Art.
	You're fabulous.
	Thank you for coming back.
	Thank you.
	My question is...
	About Yosemite and the Ring of Fire, you know, that with Mount Rainier and all that.
	So your question is?
	When do you perceive Yosemite going up?
	Well, the Ring of Fire almost did it.
	Thank goodness it didn't.
	We're going to see a lot more megafires.
	Unfortunately, that's also in the prophecies about great uncontrolled fires as well as floods.
	And that also seems to follow scientific climate theory that as the edges of the Earth's continents get more flooded, the interiors, as things get hotter, dry out.
	So that's one thing.
	So what was your other question?
	She's gone.
	And I don't recall either.
	So the central question was About Yellowstone, right?
	Yeah, Yosemite.
	Yosemite.
	Yeah, and I said that it almost did, but I don't see it burning up.
	For one thing, all the fuel that would have done it on the approaches has been burnt, so no, I don't see anything.
	How about Yellowstone, isn't there?
	I don't see a super volcano event happening in our lifetime.
	But I do see the potential of a subduction zone quake off the northwestern coast somewhere off the northern coast of Oregon near Tillamook about 100 miles out sometime between the August of 2017 through 2020.
	And that is because of a very interesting thing that I'm studying that deals with eclipses Hello?
	Hi.
	passing, total eclipses, passing over a region, and then that region in the next 18 months
	to 24 months having significant seismic activity.
	It's something I write about a lot at hogeprophecy.com, and I have my eyes out on what may happen
	in Pacific Northwest in August on the eclipses.
	Hoge, hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I swear to God, we're going to put a gong in so people know they're on the air.
	That's ridiculous.
	Yeah, we've got to, we always have to have this conversation.
	Is it me?
	You know, I understand why people ask that.
	How can they know I want a gong?
	Hey Art, should I do gong or something?
	Something.
	Anyway, do you have a question?
	Yes, it's Joe from the Great White North there, and I'm a truck driver listening to you.
	It's 91, the first time caller, and I enjoy your show.
	I have a prediction, and I have two quick questions.
	My prediction is, I think the Catholic Church or the Vatican is going to fall based on a lot of corruption, I believe, that's been going on there for a long time, and I'd like his opinion on that.
	And secondly, I'd like to know if we're ever going to, when we're going to have proof that there is alien life or something to that effect.
	I want to know, too.
	All right, let's attack them.
	Will the Catholic Church fall?
	No, not any distance, not soon, no.
	I think I am now updating The Last Pope, and it'll be released next year, the book that the other caller was talking about, that was released in 1998, and I'm going to change its title, and I think there's an amazing... Why don't you call it The Last, Last Pope?
	Well, the interesting thing about The Last Pope, the almost-last, the last, yes, it's like the son of this, the grandson of that, yes, in the movies.
	Yeah, it's a... the problem with the prophecies of St.
	Malachi, which are attributed to the Irish saint from medieval times, is that they are actually a prophet using his name from the 1590s, and they...
	They're numbered, but the final one is in a coda that's not just a motto of Latin, medieval phrases.
	It's a whole paragraph.
	And there's a feeling amongst profit watchers that when the 111th, which was Gloria Olivei, which was Gloria of the Olive, which is Benedict, which is actually a Benedictine symbol, When he left the church, it left only one left, and that was the last one that was really counted.
	Now we have Petrus Romanus, Peter of Rome.
	The problem is, there could be a hundred popes, because it could, grammatically, just be jumping to, okay, I've stopped with the list, now I'm going to tell you what's going to happen to the pope at doomsday.
	That's one possibility.
	All right.
	John, we have such little time.
	I need a yes or no answer.
	Alien life?
	Yes.
	Yes!
	Excellent.
	Now I'm tempted to ask you something else, but I won't.
	Instead, I'll say, hello, you're, oh, look at this now.
	I don't have control.
	Give me line one.
	I hate this program.
	Line one.
	Yeah, thank you.
	You're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Hey, how's it going, guys?
	My question was, my question is, it was the last caller.
	He kind of stole my thunder.
	I was going to ask about first contact, but do you see any Future predictions or ideas about when that would ever happen and if so, what shape, way or form it would?
	Well, Art wanted a simple yes or no from me, but actually I was going to expose a mistake of mine in predictions that we had on this show.
	But now that you've re-asked the question, I can talk about something I got wrong.
	I said that, and maybe I won't get it wrong, but we're getting very close, I said that some of our, on his show long ago, I said that around the middle of this decade we would probably find that the planets that we're looking at with our new telescopes will see artificial light or something in evidence in the spectrum that shows a civilization existing in a nearby world, and that is how We will come to understand that there is extraterrestrial life, and it will become a mainstream understanding.
	Now, we're getting really close to me being wrong on that.
	Okay.
	But not there yet.
	So you can't.
	Okay.
	You're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Hello, hello.
	Yeah?
	Yes, it's you.
	Okay.
	I'm just going to start saying that.
	Yes, it's you.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, no kidding.
	Anyway, my question was about the nuclear reactor problem that they've had in Japan and how and if it plays into any prophecy at all, you know?
	Ooh, darn good question.
	Yeah.
	It really is a darn good question because these things last so long.
	It's a whole chapter in my future book on Fukushima, and it is a significant situation between November, coming November, and next November, they are moving these rods out of the pool which is hanging exposed to the air on a derelict building that could fall over, and I don't see good things coming from that.
	They're going to try, John.
	Yeah, I don't think they're going to succeed.
	So you're actually making a prediction?
	You're saying they're going to attempt to move and something terrible is going to happen?
	Yes, I've actually made a lot of predictions tonight.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I would join you in that prediction.
	You're on the air with John Hogan.
	Not a lot of time.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Yes, it's you.
	It's me?
	Yes, ma'am.
	Yes, this is Peggy and Roswell Park.
	Yes, thank you.
	Yes, listen I've worked in the ER for many many years and one thing that's always concerned me is that one of these days that there will be a modern epidemic that we haven't seen before and I personally think we're so unprepared because on any given day many of the nation's ERs are inundated with, we're understaffed, we're inundated with patients, we're already Nearly over the top.
	And I just wondered if the guest has any thoughts on prophecies on any modern contagious epidemics.
	Boy, you are so right on the money, ma'am.
	So right on the money.
	Thank you.
	John, we're running out of time.
	Quick.
	Bird flu.
	Foreseen by Nostradamus is the many strange birds that come crying today, now today, and then will pass, and they are the first instance of a whole series of apocalyptic events.
	Woof!
	So you do see it coming, and you see it coming as that lady soon.
	I was wrong, actually, in seeing it would be coming.
	Well, no, actually, now that I think of it, next year is one possibility, although I think I'll be wrong.
	But yes, it is, it is, it'll be avian flu.
	I think we, if you can do that, nail them quick, we can get another one in.
	You're on the air with John Howell.
	Hello.
	Hello, John.
	Yeah, I was calling about the financial crisis that we're looking at.
	Okay, and the question is, very quickly.
	What does he see?
	Does he see them coming to resolution, or does he see a financial collapse?
	Okay, good, good, good question.
	Does it go north or south, John?
	South in 2016.
	Fiat economy in crisis.
	Bonds away.
	That good?
	Bonds away.
	That's the way to end a program, John.
	That's the way to do it, buddy.
	Alright, it has been a blast.
	I know.
	It's gritty.
	I like it.
	Yeah, well, you're gritty.
	That's what we are, gritty.
	You take care, buddy.
	We'll do it again.
	Okay, all right.
	Bye-bye.
	All right.
	If I have to have one more conversation... You know, I used to have to tell people to turn down radios.
	Now it's very rare.
	Now it's, is it me?
	Am I on?
	Is it me?
	If I hear that one more time, I'll be going to the yard.

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