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Oct. 3, 2013 - Art Bell

03:29:14

Dark Matter with Art Bell - Fukushima, Bigfoot, Animal Mutilations, and Government Knowledge of ETs - Linda Moulton Howe

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37:58

linda moulton howe

02:18:32

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Be it sight, sound, smell, touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up, to tar back to the sun again, or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie to my own.
		And hear the grass sing, try all these things in our memories home And they use them to help us to find Yeah!
		Right, right as you saw Take this
		place, on this trip Just for me Right, take a free ride Take my place, have my seat It's for free I worked like a slave for years Sweat so hard just to end my fears Not to end my life before that But by
		now, I know I should have grown What a dream Take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest, exclusively on Sirius XM Radio.
		This is Dark Matter with your host, Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Extraterrestrial Radio, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Tonight when we'll now be here.
		I've got some stuff for you here in the beginning.
		Man, the winds here in the desert are absolutely screaming.
		I mean, they're going like 40, 50 miles an hour out there.
		So, it'll be one of those nights.
		You might even hear it screaming past my window I did earlier.
		I've got good news.
		Sirius XM, brace yourselves, has extended the timeout for people with desktop top computers, probably laptops too, laptops, desktops, to four hours.
unidentified		Ta-da!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four hours, ladies and gentlemen.
		No more timing out every 90 minutes.
		Not for the desktops.
		Now, with respect to mobile devices, they tell me they will monitor the situation.
		Now, it is a, you know, it's a matter of bandwidth.
		Bandwidth is money, big money.
		And what they're worried about is, of course, somebody leaves whatever it is on and it keeps on streaming indefinitely, costing a lot of money, actually on both ends.
		You know, if you're out with your service provider or something like that, it's really going to cost you a bunch of money, and they don't want that to happen, in addition to what they have to stream.
		So that's why they do it.
		But the good news is they have taken note of our request for four hours.
		And maybe eventually with mobile devices as well.
		Depends on how you feel about it.
		Now, Keith Rowland, my webmaster, has rearranged the website based on yesterday's complaints.
		It wasn't easy to find.
		Well, now the guests are really easy to find.
		And in addition to that, as you know, we have opened up a store.
		If you want to buy, I don't know, a t-shirt, a dark matter t-shirt, or a coffee mug or whatever.
		You can do that now.
		So many people were asking about it that we put up a store, which we, Linda will get a kick out of this.
		We are calling Arts Arts.
		Great name, I think, in a way.
		Anyway, you can go up there and buy what you wish if you wish.
		Just one note, and that is that there are other people opening up other websites trying to take advantage of the fact that we're back on the air.
		And so they're doing similar things.
		So we have put my signature on each thing, and that way you will know it's really from Dark Matter.
		So I actually sign each one.
		Now, I'm reminding you that we're taking Halloween stories, spooky matter stories.
		Include your phone number if it's a really good story.
		We'll call you up on Halloween when we do spooky matter.
		That's what we're calling it.
		Thank you, Belgium.
		A woman looking around the world, you know, this has been on ever since it broke all day long, nothing but a woman with a one-year-old girl led Secret Service and Capitol Police on a harrowing car chase from the White House past the Capitol Thursday, attempting to penetrate security barriers at both the national landmarks, actually at the White House, before she was shot.
		Now, normally a car chase, well, there were two things she did that might have certainly justified lethal force.
		One was running into a barrier at the White House.
		Very bad idea.
		But then beyond that, she was using a car like a weapon.
		Dashing into police and stuff, and that's a deadly weapon.
		So she's gone now.
		Why she did it, maybe we'll never know.
		A ship has capsized off Italy.
		It was coming from Africa.
		There were 114 on board.
		And most of them are lost.
unidentified		Dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they try in whatever they can get to float to get out of Africa and into Europe.
		And by the way, Mexicans Are now beginning to seek asylum here in the U.S. due to drug violence.
		Can you imagine that?
		I guess it's getting really bad down there.
		And there might be some who would suggest that we ought to give them asylum.
		Because were it not for the market here in the U.S., the drug violence wouldn't be going on there.
		We are the market.
		This from The Anomalous?
		Um, almost didn't mention it, but I will just because it's, I don't know, pretty wild.
		They're talking about the 13th.
		Get this.
		Someone at NASA, they say, this is from The Anomalous, leaked that this website, or this website claim, I guess, is that there's going to be an Earth-shattering announcement on November 13th.
		Something that will be, they say, the biggest discovery that will shake the Earth.
		It will never be the same again.
unidentified		Earth, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is supposedly officially linked with NASA and seems to have something to do with Mars.
		Now, I wouldn't hold your breath.
		Alright, coming up in a moment, Linda Molten How.
		No matter where you live, I don't care where you live.
		Well, especially, say, if you're here in the desert where we're getting 40 and 50 mile an hour wind, so if we suddenly disappear tonight, you'll know what happened.
		There's going to be a power failure here or there, but it will fail.
		And when it does, you're going to want to have something like the CC Solar Observer AM FM radio.
		Now, when the power goes, this is going to give you everything you need, everything you want.
		It's got a crank, so you're never going to be out of power.
		You can make your own power, as long as you can turn your hand.
		Comes with AM FM and the NUA weather band.
		It's got solar panels, so you can take it into the light, and it will renew itself.
		Comes with a built-in flashlight.
		Now, this really is sort of everything all in one, right?
		It's a radio, so you get information.
		You can crank it.
		You don't have to worry about dead batteries, which they usually are when you want them, right?
		Because you charge your own.
		Or you can put batteries in it.
		It even has the ability to charge your cell phone.
unidentified		I think that's really, really, really a big deal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In an emergency, you don't want the low bat sign, right?
		How many movies have I seen it where the killer is closing in on the beautiful blonde?
		She's reaching for the phone.
		She gets it.
		The battery's dead.
		Well, not with this.
		How's that for drama?
		To order the CC Solar Observer for just $49.95.
		That's a lot for $49.95, right?
		Call right now.
		800-522-8863.
		That's 800-522-8863.
		Well, it is true about the blonde, right?
		Probably with great big Betty Davis eyes.
		The battery is dead, and you know soon she will be too.
unidentified		Her hair is hollow, gold.
		Her lips are sweet and pride.
		Her hands are never cold.
		She got better days eyes.
		She had a new thing on you.
		You won't have to think twice.
		She's pure with New York, no.
		She got better days.
		It's at 10, baby, and we're very serious.
		To call Heartbell, please manipulate your communication device and call 1-855-REAL UFO at 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, coming up, Linda Moulton Howe.
		Linda produces, writes, directs, edits, and reports science, environmental, and real X-Files news for her award-winning website, BrickFiles.com.
		She's been in six seasons of the History Channel's Ancient Aliens series, as well as producing monthly radio reports for Coast to Coast AM and Dreamland Online.
		Six seasons.
		Boy, that's really into it.
		Since her graduation from Stanford University with a master's degree in 1966, Linda has received local national and international awards, including three regional Emmys, a national Emmy nomination, and a station Peabody Award.
		Adding to her 40 journalism awards In 2013, Linda was honored with the first It Looks Like Lucius Farish Foundation Award for Excellence in Research and Production concerning the UFO phenomenon, and in 2010 awarded the Courage and Journalism Award at the National Press Club in Washington,
		D.C. She has produced four books that include over a thousand photographs, illustrations, and leaked government documents concerning her investigations into evidence that extraterrestrial biological entities have been interacting for centuries now with Earth.
		In 2013, Linda participated in a journalist witness, as a journalist witness, that should be, concerning extraterrestrial evidence in the citizens' hearing at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., held before several retired congressional representatives.
		Here is Linda Moulton Howe.
		Hi, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I thank you, Art.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		My gosh, it is so good to hear your great voice on the air again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to hear yours on the air, too.
		How long has it been?
		When did we last do his show?
		Any idea?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Probably, what, George started doing Coast in 2004, and I think that 2003 or the end of 2003 was our last Coast together in Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, that's 10 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, to be fair, we have seen each other since.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I guess we can tell everybody about that later.
		So it hasn't been 10 years, I mean, but 10 years since the air.
		My goodness gracious.
unidentified		Okay.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		From the broadcast.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And hopefully what we have worked on together, we can do in another dark matter at some point here in the upcoming future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's something I want to ask you about up front that's not on your list of stuff.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm getting increasingly frantic emails about Fukushima.
		Now, you know, things like TEPCO has no idea how to stop the leaks.
		Stuff like scientists have no idea where the cores of the nuclear reactors are right now.
		About leaking water, about tanks that are bursting.
		It just sounds like a mess, Linda.
		Serious mess.
		And I'm wondering what you know.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I keep up with it through a professor who teaches in Japan as well as people on the East Coast who have been following the Fukushima, what they call it, a catastrophe equal to or greater than Chernobyl.
		And the most recent in-depth report I did goes back to, it was August 29th.
		And that was right, I think it was just one week after what is called the Tokyo Electric Power Company, and that's where you hear that word TEPCO.
		Really, it was one of the most depressing announcements that I think I've ever heard, that they had lost or had been leaking 80,000 gallons of highly radioactive water for an entire month, and no one knew until the end of August when they finally hone up to this.
		And at those times, that 80,000 tons, that's about 300 tons of this leaking water, it contains strontium-90.
		And strontium-90, as you know, is a bone-seeking isotope.
		It stays in the body.
		It has a half-life of 30 years, which means when you keep breaking down the radioactivity of strontium-90, and then you have cesium-137 there, too.
		But strontium is going to take with cesium about 300 years to get back to background.
		And that means, without question, there's going to be increases in bone cancer, cancer of nearby tissues, and leukemia.
		And that professor who stays in touch with me, Art, he moved his wife and his children from Japan to Australia because of his own, he was taking a radiation monitor around his yard and the school where his young children played, and he was finding enough above background that was contradicting what the Japanese government was saying was safe X miles away from Fukushima.
		And on top of all of this, because of just the last announcement that they had lost track of that 80,000 gallons, it provoked the International Atomic Energy Agency to basically go to Japan and say, how could this happen?
		And now they raised that level from what was the United Nations, they have the seven-point international nuclear and radiological event scale.
		And it went up after two and a half years from the first 311 disaster.
		The crisis went up to a level three now again.
		It's climbing back up toward Chernobyl.
		And one of the things that when I ask Dave Lockbaum, he's director of the Nuclear Safety Project for the Union of Concerned Scientists, and I ask him, what do you guys understand about the radioactivity of this water?
		What kind of exposure are we talking about?
		And he said, when some objective readings were taken at the end of August, along with that TEPCO announcement, it showed that if you or anybody were standing two feet from the water, the 80,000 tons or gallons that escaped, you would get the equivalent of five years' worth of radiation in just one hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Linda, at the time this occurred, I was in the Philippines, in Asia.
		So we were very concerned.
		But as it turns out, the prevailing, I don't know, ocean currents and winds bring it more toward, frankly, here than they do the Philippines.
		So we feel better about that.
		But one thing that's very worrisome, and I want to ask about, is the fish.
		You know, Filipinos eat lots and lots of fish.
		And while it's a long way away, they're all worried.
		And I wonder if we should be worried.
		In other words, if fish are in this water all the damn time, right?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, you know, that is one of the most complicated questions.
		In my own Earth Files reporting, I have continually asked, how safe is Japan's fish and farm food?
		And you get answers all over the map.
		The professor who is there, and he has people who have gone into the supermarkets with radiation counters.
		They have said, and he has said to me, I won't eat any seafood.
		I've changed my entire diet.
		And so now that's from somebody who's living there.
		And here is, now let's go to somebody on the outside who is not living there but is trying to monitor in the Pacific close to Fukushima, and that's Greenpeace.
		Greenpeace has, just a year ago, they put out a warning that they were seeing much higher than normal radiation in some of the fish that they have caught.
		But what happened today?
		There was a newspaper article in which the Japanese government is saying, no, that they've done sampling of fish in there is nothing to be concerned about.
		But here's the point.
		The professor and everyone I've interviewed, and that includes people in both Tokyo and Fukushima, and they say, and this is a quote, we can't trust anything the Japanese government says anymore.
		And that's why so many people are trying to do their own monitoring, but they're up against this.
		This is a fascinating cultural aspect of Japan.
		The government always has had a policy.
		It sort of is the metaphor are those beautiful white lace gloves that were on the cover of one of the news magazines after the horror of 3-11 of a woman who still had on her white lace gloves up against her forehead surrounded by the ocean water and the trash.
		And the professor has said to me, this is a country in which everything always goes to politeness.
		No one talks to families about cancer or sickness.
		And the government does not want anyone to talk about the radiation from Fukushima.
		They've got the Olympics now.
		They want everything to be fine.
		And now we are talking about a contradiction between what is a political policy and what is the reality of a few people there who are trying to get data to the rest of us on the outside.
		And where does all this come down?
		A professor won't eat any of the seafood in any market anywhere in Japan where he is living.
		But Greenpeace has reported that they have measured radioactive rice, beef, fruits, vegetables, milk, and baby formula.
		And as recently as January 2013, I'm reading from a notice from Greenpeace, quote, fish caught off the coast of Fukushima measured 250,000 becquerels per kilogram of radioactive cesium.
		Now, what does that mean?
		That amount of radioactive cesium is 2,540 times the legal limit for human consumption.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy smokes.
		Linda, you know, mom always said politeness, it won't kill you to be polite.
		Sometimes, I guess, maybe it will.
		I spent a lot of time in Japan, and that cultural comment is so right on.
		The Japanese are a wonderful people, but they're not perfect, and they are polite to a fault.
		And this one is just going too far.
		I do understand this.
		It's scary.
		It's actually scaring me because we're in that, if you look at where fallout comes when bad things happen, it seems to come down over the northwest and then down over the desert southwest.
		So, you know, we're in line over here.
		One other question, Lynn, if you don't mind, and then we'll leave this.
		And that is the cores, the melted cores.
		They really don't know where they are.
		And I've heard that, you know, when you get a radioactive core like that that's melted and all together, you can begin to have reactions.
		I know I'm off in a kind of a dangerous area, and I'm not talking about a sudden atomic explosion.
		I'm talking about a burst of radiation.
		Is that possible?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I sent that exact question to Dave Lockbaum at the Nuclear Safety Project for the Union of Concerned Scientists and to Arnie Gunderson, who does fair winds, and he has a strong nuclear engineering background, and he's been extremely concerned about Fukushima.
		In fact, it was Arnie Gunderson who first said, well, M311, this is going to be worse than Chernobyl once he realized that I think people need to get a picture in their head that the spent fuel rods, all that radioactive water is in units, those six units, four of which were involved in the catastrophe, are 100 feet above the ground.
		I think people have it, kept that in mind.
		The construction is the spent water and the spent fuel rods are above the ground, the nuclear cores are below the ground, and so TEPCO and the Japanese government have had this two-headed monster on their hands now since 3-11 worrying about what's going to happen if all that radioactive water that they've been trying to get into now there's a thousand tanks and they keep building tanks that are full of all
		this radioactive water something serious has to happen and that's why in just the last three or four weeks there's been the discussion about how can they get those nuclear cores that are still so radioactive underground out and can they do it safely and meanwhile what do they do about all of the spent radioactive water in the spent fuel where the spent fuel rods are above ground?
		And that's why the Japanese government, in sort of desperation, is saying that they are willing to spend several billion dollars to literally build an ice core in a circle around all of the Fukushima TEPCO land.
		And that right now is what's on the next docket.
		But between now and then, many people are saying they're going to have to get those nuclear cores out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think they're worried also about number four collapsing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been hearing about that.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's because of that problem of the spent fuel water and the rods 100 feet above ground.
		Well, all the units have this issue, but that's what's going on at Unit 4.
		And so now, the only light at the end of the tunnel that I can give you on this most recent correspondence was that both Dave Lockbaum and Arnie said that they do not think right now that getting the nuclear cores out have reached any kind of an emergency situation.
		It depends on how the approach is done, but the Japanese government is now on top of TEPCO.
		They have officially said they are taking over all the next steps because TEPCO has not been effective and TEPCO is a company now that no one in Japan believes.
		So they have a gigantic credibility problem.
		And right now in the United States, I think you've raised an extremely good question, Art.
		What will the consequences be in the next year if Japan loses control yet again of any of those steps, the, we'll call it the fuel rod water that's radioactive, the spam fuel, and those cores underneath, plus they have over a thousand containers now of all of that wastewater that they've been gathering.
		If there is another earthquake, and if it lands and splits land and those containers break or those cores break or more of that spent fuel rod water comes down, we're in another serious crisis and it will be probably worse than Chernobyl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess this kind of is the death knell for nuclear power.
		I was actually warming up to nuclear power again because we need it so badly, but I think this one puts a seal on it.
		What do you think?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I do think that's what's happening.
		I know that the professor in Japan says that there really is, even in that polite society where there's not supposed to be protest, that there is this growing sense that the government would like to see their nuclear power reinstated and reinvigorated, but that there appears to be a political climate pushing against that.
		And in the United States, the very fact that there has been one closure of one of the troublesome nuclear power plants just in the last couple of months, and that there have been protests against several others, I personally do not see how the United States,
		with nuclear power plants of very similar construction, with some differences in some places, but very similar parallels in some of our nuclear power plants in the United States, also on water, we could suffer something that would be similar to what happened to Fukushima.
		And who in the United States now would like to risk that after we have seen the horror of what has played out in Japan?
		So this is an ongoing story.
		As Dave Lockbaum, Union of Concerned Scientists, and Arnie Gunderson have said to me, this is a story that is going to continue to unfold for at least the next 30 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, for somebody who wasn't prepared for this question, you sure have a lot of information about it.
		Thank you very much.
		All right.
		So we have a lot of ground to cover here.
		I see you've got it mapped out half hour by half hour here.
		Where do you want to go first and how do you want to do this?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I thought it would be really fun to sort of take your audience now with you and with me back to, I'm going back to, and I'm holding it in my hand.
		It is the original audio cassette that I put in my analog audio cassette player four years ago.
		And it's labeled 1978 Bigfoot Howls, one minute edited for Dreamland with Art Bell dated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's dated, all right.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, dated June 18th, 1995.
		So as far as I know, that's when I first played this for you.
		And I thought it was so interesting in the Time magazine, those four pages that they did on you coming back to Dark Matter, that they put a list of iconic moments in Coast to Coast A.M. with Art Bell, and they said they highlighted this one about the Bigfoot yowls.
		And so I'm going to set the stage just a little, and we're going to hear this again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Four pages in the magazine in time.
		Who would have thought?
		All right.
		It stages yours.
		Go ahead, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Everybody, go back in your minds and think 1978 old analog audio recorders, nothing digital, nothing modern.
		This woman who lives in Snohomish, Washington, which is about 30 miles sort of northeast of Seattle, she lives in this very forested area of the Snohomish Forest, which is famous for all kinds of strange creatures and animal mutilations and all kinds of things through the years.
		And she sees and hears first a high-pitched sound she doesn't recognize and went out on her porch.
		And the way she describes it, that there were a couple, at least two, eight foot tall, and she used the words silver-backed, primate-looking creatures with dark long hair.
		And they're standing at her gravel pit, which is about 100 feet from her porch.
		And they begin making this very high-pitched sound, so she went into the house, got her tape recorder, analog, and she stood on her back porch with this little recorder in her hands, holding it toward the creatures as they howled.
		And this is the same excerpt that I played for you back in 1995 from that old sort of slightly scratchy analog tape from December 1978.
unidentified		Here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those are screams.
		You've got to discount the static that you're hearing in there.
		But the screams were just horrific.
		And what would they come from if not Bigfoot?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, now this is an eyewitness.
		That's what has always made this audio so powerful and why I played it for you back in 95, is that we had the eyewitness description of this woman standing on her porch and she's looking at these eight-foot-tall primates.
		And I don't think it was more than a month or so after that I had played this for you and we had talked about the whole Sasquatch phenomena on Coast and Dreamland.
		And I got this, it was like an eight and a half by 11 or 14 package in the mail.
		And in it were a series of color drawings from a man that I call Steve Bismarck because he asked me to keep him anonymous.
		And he lives in Snohomish, Washington too.
		And he was out pulling weeds on his dad's property on Easter weekend in 1977.
		And he said that he first heard a buzzing sound around him.
		And it made him look up and to his complete amazement, daytime blue sky, here is a big, he estimated 100 foot diameter silver disc and it's coming right down to the top of one of the big evergreen trees not too far from where he's pulling weeds.
		And as this silver disc settles down over this tree, the tree starts moving wildly as if there were almost hurricane winds.
		And that astonished him even further because it was a completely still day.
		So whatever was happening, it was generated by this disc.
		And then, now, as he said, he's standing almost paralyzed somewhere between fear and awe.
		And out of this craft, now, this is in your mind's eye, because he drew them, and I have all these illustrations in my third book, Glimpses of Other Realities.
		That's the second volume called High Strangeness.
		And so you see the drawings, and so I'm going to try to give you a word picture.
		Imagine columns of air coming down from this silver disc, and that the air has enough substance or motion or something that he can see that there are columns, but they're kind of translucent,
		and through these or inside of these, he sees in each column, and this is his word, they looked like Filipinos with brownish skin, slanted eyes, wearing a tight, sparkly blue leotard, and they came down in these columns to the ground.
		And they didn't pay any attention to him, and they went off, and this happened apparently several times because he said there were at least nine of these blue-suited beings that went off into the forest, and he is staring, wondering, what are they going to do if they did find him?
		When he hears, because he's watching after them, he hears a thud.
		And he turns, and there, coming down also in a beam from this craft, is, he said, eight foot tall, long-haired Sasquatch that proceeds to follow right after the sparkly blue-suited Filipino-looking beings.
		And then he told me that he went and he went to his dad's house and he called the Snohoma Sheriff's Office.
		And he got a deputy on the phone named Jerry Phillips, who I got to interview as well.
		And he told the deputy all about this and was shocked when the deputy told him, Steve Bismarck, that the sheriff's office was getting a lot of phone calls about strange lights in the sky and unusual animal deaths.
		And so he, the deputy, was coming out to check because now this guy is reporting the UFO, the blue beans, the Sasquatch.
		Well, now, Deputy Phillips, when I did an interview with him, told me that he went out, walked all over, and at exactly the place where Steve Bismarck took him and said, here's where these two bizarre, air-like, translucent beams hit the ground, and these beings in that sausage came down.
		Deputy Phillips told me that he found many, not one, but many egg-shaped holes in the ground.
		And then, further on, in the direction that all these creatures had gone, he found a huge five-toed print.
		He made a plaster cast of it.
		I have a photograph in the book.
		I mean, it's gigantic.
		It's one of those 14, 17-inch long, 8, 10-inch wide feet with toes.
		And when the deputy began doing more field research around Steve Bisbark's house, he came upon what he said was one of the strangest animal deaths of that year and the next year when they were flooded with the bloodless, trackless animal mutilations.
		He said that hanging from a broken branch, something had broken a branch that was nine to ten feet off the ground was a deer hanging by the scrub of its neck over the broken branch and had the classic ear, eye, tongue, jaw, genitals, and rectum chord out no blood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where do you even begin here?
		I guess, number one, I'm trying to picture the lady that you talked about standing on her porch with a tape recorder, facing eight-foot Sasquatch animals, screaming in a way that would curdle the blood of anybody, and not running in terror, taking off like Wiley Coyote or something.
		I don't know.
		I couldn't have done it.
		I couldn't have stood there with that tape recorder.
		Did you ever have an opportunity to ask Helen, the good Lord's name, she was able to stay planted?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the tape and the letter and the correspondence was sent to me through an intermediary, and I've heard her voice on the audio tapes describing the dates and what she's doing, so I know her that way.
		But I can tell you that by being able to talk to the Sasquatch investigator who sent me this package, he said that she had heard these high-pitched sounds so many times in the forest that she had become accustomed, confused, puzzled.
		So that the day that for some reason they had felt comfortable enough to come up to her gravel pit, it wasn't like she was in fear of something that was immediately unknown.
		I remember that.
		She had been hearing it.
		And I think if I'd been in her shoes and I had a tape recorder, I would want to have taped this sound too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Running.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, indeed.
		Linda, hold tight.
		We're going to take a break here.
		All right.
		We're absolutely packed with all kinds of different topics that Linda wants to talk about.
		I want to get her take on Sasquatch in general, how she feels about it, whether it's a done deal and the full body of evidence supports the existence of Sasquatch.
		And if so, how in the world is Bigfoot hiding?
		How's he doing that?
unidentified		This land is filled with man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although not necessarily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of open land out there.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Okay, let's turn this light off here.
		It's 2 a.m.
		It's 2 a.m.
		Here it's all out.
		Here it is.
		The gun's still warm.
		In my connection.
		I had a big chance.
		Yeah, I love a storm on the roof.
		Sireen in my head.
		Wrapped up in silence.
		I'll look at the bed.
		Can I be cold?
		My whole life spins into a brain bed.
		And I'm stepping into the twilight zone.
		Wrapped up in that house.
		Feels like being cold.
		My heat comes in the moon.
		Down the moon and the star.
		Where am I to go now that I've gone too far?
		And I'm stepping into the twilight zone.
		Want to take a ride?
		To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell.
		Please call 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, hold your cause for now.
		We've got a lot of reporting to do when the bullet hits the bone.
		How you doing, Linda Moltenhow is my guest.
		And at the moment, we're talking about Bigfoot.
		It's an extremely interesting discussion.
		I am so curious about Bigfoot.
		I have been all These years, I've had a million requests to replay what Linda replayed.
		Getting kind of old now on the tape, no question about that.
		But there's something I want Linda to listen.
		I want Linda to take a very careful listen to this and see what you think.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody, you get the idea, blood-curdling screams again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that sound like Bigfoot?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds very similar.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a recording that I've always kept, and I wonder if it's a better copy of what you have, or, you know, I don't know, Linda, but this was my Bigfoot sound, or a Bigfoot sound, and it sure sounds pretty much the same to me.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wanted to tell you, this is reinforcing, if it is a separate audio.
		I've got the one from the woman.
		This one from yours sounds slightly different.
		And I'm going back now to June 25th, 2001.
		I got in an airplane and I took off for Hong Kong to work as a reporter with a video production group for a TV series on Discovery.
		They were based in Hong Kong, and that's where I went first.
		And then we got in more planes, and we went to Hanoi, Vietnam, and then to Vien Thien, Laos.
		And then we went into an old Soviet truck to take that Route 9 up to where the DMZ was in the Vietnam War, where there were a bunch of people who had been reporting, and it had filtered into political authority in Vientiane,
		that they had seen something that the locals up at the DMZ between Vietnam and Laos, that they were reporting what they called wild forest men and females with human faces and large hairy bodies.
		And we went on this trip, and the first night we were staying, talk about rough accommodations, no toilets, no anything, but we had an empty cement building in which they had set up a whole bunch of thick mosquito netting, and each one of us was in a cot inside of this mosquito netting that was hard to get in and hard to get out.
		And at 2 a.m., for some reason, I was able to see a clock, and that's why I know.
		At 2 a.m., I came straight up and my head went into that mosquito netting.
		And what I was hearing was the same Sasquatch sound that I played tonight.
		And in fact, Art, I had taken this same audio with me so that the Hong Kong production crew could hear that eerie, eerie looping sound.
		And we had played it for some of the locals that day when we arrived.
		And they had said in their language, yes, this was similar.
		Of all the things for me to wake up hearing, it was that high-pitched looping sound.
		And now I was confronted with this problem.
		If I try to get out of the cot in the mosquito netting across, the crews were all laid out on floors, and then I'm making all that noise, I will miss hearing how long it goes on.
		And so, with equipment in a room about 50 feet away, I sat there in the dark in that mosquito netting and the Vietnam-Laos border listening to this sound.
		And that is a true story.
		We never saw it.
		We interviewed people.
		And when we would take the locals, and they would take us to the site, they would take their arms and gesture as small people, but going and showing us the branch that they had seen, what they called the wild people, taking branches or fruit.
		And that branch, I think it was a cameraman, got out a tape measure, and from the ground up to the branch was 14 feet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's what I want to ask you about, Linda.
		Everybody asks about this, so I'm going to.
		Here in America, if you live in a fairly urban environment, your mindset is going to be, oh, give me a break.
		How could an animal of that size possibly hide, basically hide from humans and hardly ever be seen, hardly ever, you know, those are rare recordings we have, or certainly video is very rare and suspect at times as well.
		So how could an animal like that ever, or if it's not an animal, half human, whatever it is, hide from all of us?
		But on the other hand, Linda, if you live out where I live and on up through Oregon and Washington, this kind of country, you can drive for hours and hours and hours and see virtually nothing.
		So there's a lot of land where people are not.
		So I'm sort of answering my own question, but the big question is, how are they not seen more frequently?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		The consensus, and this is a hypothesis because it's not proved, is that the Sasquatch, Bigfoot, wild man, Yeti live underground.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Underground.
unidentified		Yeah.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And that we are dealing with some sort of a primate species that, and I'm Going to say these words, knowing I can't exactly prove it, but to me there's too much circumstantial evidence not to say it.
		That if, like the documents that I've been exposed to in my work when I was working for HBO and other things that we can talk about in more detail, that extraterrestrial biological entities manipulated DNA in already evolving primates to create Homo sapiens sapien,
		which is us, and those are words in an alleged government document, that the link between the Sasquatch Bigfoot and extraterrestrial deliberate creation of them to do work on this planet is strong.
		I have interviewed many people in the abduction syndrome who have been on a craft during an abduction, and they have seen what they say are eight to nine foot tall hairy Sasquatch or primate looking entities on those craft.
		And in Snohomish, Steve Bismarck saw the sparkly suited people come down or beings and then saw the Sasquatch.
		Now, if there is genetic manipulation of all kinds going on in the Earth by advanced non-humans, what Michio Kaku would say in dividing the possibilities of the evolution of life in this 13.8 billion year old universe,
		that you've got the ability in a 4.6 billion year old solar system, which is what we're in, to have had at least another 8 billion before.
		And that if there are civilization 3s out there, as Michio Kaku describes, theorizing, they have the ability to gather energy from suns, to manipulate and fold space-time, and to genetically create anything that they want, to use it anywhere that they want in the universe, in any planet with specific gravity, specific atmosphere, and so forth.
		So now with that as sort of a quantum physicist lens, if you go then to the abduction syndrome and what is reported, if these Sasquatch creatures or Yeti or Laos, wherever they are,
		are actually here doing work for something that we still don't even acknowledge as existing, and they were made to be underground, because that way they would be preserved from interaction with Earth's surface life, as it's been described to me, and that they have some ability that might not always necessarily be organic as we think of mammals or creatures, and why I bring this up.
		One of the most interesting sheriff's reports that I remember seeing when I started working on my documentary, A Strange Harvest, about the global animal mutilations was in the fall of 1979.
		And that was only three or four years after this sheriff's report had been filed with the Cascade County Sheriff's Office in Great Falls, Montana.
		And the report that went to the sheriff was from a rancher out hunting, had a 30-yought 6 rifle, came around a bend, and confronted immediately in front of him was an eight, he said, eight foot tall, reddish brown, long-haired, looked like, I think he said an orangutan or a primate.
		And without hesitating, the rancher grabbed his 30-yought 6 rifle and shot.
		And the creature in front of him, this is a quote from the sheriff's report, disappeared in a flash of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so it's not biological, or certainly not fully biological as are we.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Or they are creatures who have the ability to escape Homo sapiens, sapien surface life in ways that we do not understand, which goes to the heart of your question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Why don't we find them or why do we rarely see them?
		Yes, indeed.
		Do you think, Glinda, that the preponderance of evidence, and you've sure looked at a lot of it, says these creatures are real?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		The best source, I think, is Jimmy Chilcott.
		He was a forensics expert working for the Conroe Police Department down in Conroe, Texas.
		And it was back in the, oh, around 2006, I think, I did an interview with him about work that he had been doing and cooperating with the anthropologist Jeff Meldrum at Oregon State University at the time.
		They wanted to see how many plaster casts they could find that already existed.
		Plus Jimmy Chilcutt, he had specialized as a police officer in collecting all kinds of human footprints.
		And then he went to Georgia and went to a zoo with the police department's permission.
		And he did plaster casts on orangutans and chimpanzees and all of this to increase his ability to say, okay, this ridge, these toes, this heel are from somebody who limps or it's not primate or whatever it was, that's what Jimmy was doing.
		He was specializing in that.
		And he said to me that in one of the castings that Jeff Meldrum, the anthropologist studying the Sasquatch Bigfoot phenomenon, gave to him, that he came across what he said was, and I'm now reading from a Jimmy Chilcott report, a 14-inch casting from Northern California in 1967.
		Now, a lot of scientists had seen this, and they had looked at this casting, but they all missed what I saw immediately, being now a latent fingerprint expert.
		These were derma ridges, and they jumped out at me because the derma ridges On this cast from an alleged Sasquatch displayed definitely not human characteristics because they ran in a different direction.
		They had a different pattern flow than human feet.
		And they also had a slightly different pattern flow than primates, the non-humans that he had studied down in the zoo.
		So my first thought was, maybe these are faked ridges.
		But the more I studied them, the more I realized they could not have been faked.
		They were completely different ridges than I had ever seen in anything else.
		And we came to the conclusion, after I'd been a police officer for 23 years working with footprints and handprints, that this was something that was, we could now use the derma ridges in the plaster castings as one of the pieces of evidence that separated what we were calling the Sasquatch phenomena from humans and other primates.
		And Jimmy Chilcott in that interview told me he had not a single doubt that there was some sort of a primate-looking creature out there that was leaving footprints in mud and sand that were huge with derma ridges that he himself said, this is it.
		This is what proves they are a different species.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you share that view?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		And the reason I do is because I have talked with so many people who have been in searches after the Sasquatch Bigfoot phenomenon.
		And I have read three or four books by scientists who have come at this from a zoology point of view.
		They want to prove it, and they can't yet prove it because they need the creature in some sort of either live in a cage would be preferable.
		And then you jump to, I personally feel that people in the abduction syndrome are trying to tell the truth to the best of their ability.
		And when somebody like Steve Bismarck says he saw this Sasquatch creature following those several blue-suited extraterrestrial biological entities in the forest in Snohamish at a time when there were all of those discs and lights and animal mutilations and marks in the ground and all of the stuff that happened,
		I think that's another piece in the puzzle with Jeff Meldrum and Jimmy Chilcott and the scientists, and you stand back and say, because we don't have the body live or dead yet, does not mean it's not on this planet underground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There's been a great debate about whether a Bigfoot should be shot.
		Now, there are those who scream, no, of course not.
		They're rare.
		They're endangered.
		And last thing you want to do in the world is kill one.
		Other scientists have said, no, we need a body.
		We need that evidence.
		And I wonder which side of that question you'd be on.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I hate to see anything be killed.
		It's just my nature.
		I would not want to kill a Sasquatch.
		I don't know if they are retrievable in a live form, meaning they are so strong, so big, so smart, so agile, that maybe it's not possible to get them into a cage.
		But to shoot one, I think, would just be horrible.
		So I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so your answer would be no.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, my answer, my personal answer would be I would never shoot one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I actually had a fellow on the show who had a very, very good story, and I'm sure you remember, that he shot a couple of Bigfoot.
		And he was very concerned, and I think rightfully so.
		He buried them, Linda.
		I still have a map to where those bodies are located.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't know about this, huh?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow, well that would be, Well, I have sworn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have sworn, and I intend to keep my word.
		Unless he released me to do so, I would not show the map to anybody.
		I had to.
		He was actually worried, Linda, that the police would become involved.
		He was, frankly, a little unsure what he had killed.
		I mean, he described classic Bigfoot.
		But, you know, if you really, you've got to think as he would think.
		He shot these two creatures, and he was concerned about possibly being prosecuted.
		His nickname was Bugs.
		I'll tell you what.
		Hold tight, Linda.
		We're going to do a break here.
		We'll come back and talk more about this.
		I know I'd be concerned.
		These days, you never know what the legal system is going to do.
		It'd be a long, hard time thinking before I went to the police and say, listen, I shot a couple of these things.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		What about sunrise?
		What about rain?
		What about all things that you said we were to game?
		What about killing fears?
		Is there a time?
		What about all things that you said is yours mine?
		Did you ever not notice all the blood you shed before?
		Did you ever not notice all the blood you shed before?
		A little jiving on a Saturday night Come walk me Gonna die on the dead way Jenny was sweet She always smile for the people she needs You're listening to Dark Matter with Art Bell.
		For you to really matter, please dial 1-855-WHELUFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda Moulton Howe is my guest and she'll be back in a moment.
		You know, Sirius XM just did us all a gigantic favor.
		We really owe them one.
		They extended the dropout time to four minutes.
		Four hours, rather, so that if you're listening to the show on a computer, you know, a desktop or I presume a laptop, you're going to get four hours and no interruption.
		Thank you, Sirius.
		However, there are times when the dropouts that happen are not the fault of SiriusXM at all.
		They're the fault of your Wi-Fi.
		That's right, your Wi-Fi.
		Because the signal gets interrupted because somebody turns on a microwave oven because you've got a weak signal to start with.
unidentified		There's a cure for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called the Super USB Wi-Fi Antenna 3.
		This thing will just kick your behind the way it works.
		I mean, it's amazing.
		If you're a trucker, and I know that I'm talking to lots and lots of truckers out there right now, you can get to a truck stop.
		You can take this super USB Wi-Fi antenna.
		It's got a couple suction cups on it.
		Put it in your window, plug the USB into your computer, and voila, you're going to see Wi-Fi signals that are coming from a distance you never imagined in your wildest dreams.
		That's how good it is.
		So if there's open internet, you know, Starbucks, whatever, somewhere around, or just one that happens to be open, you're on it.
		You're in it.
		So what can I say?
		Give it a try, even at home.
		You know, if the laptop you have is only not so good, get this thing, plug it into the USB port, you know, load a little software, put the suction cups into a window a long, long way away.
		If you want one, it's $99.95.
		See, we have some expensive things and worth every penny.
		Call C Crane and get one on the way.
		You will love me for it.
		You can call right now.
		Operators are sitting around waiting for you to call.
		Make them busy.
		The number is 1-800-522-8863.
		Of course, you can see it at ccrane.com, but call right now and get one on the way.
		$99.95.
		Really, really worth it.
		800-522-8863.
		C-Crane Company.
		Linda, welcome back.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
		And just to sort of connect to where we left off, and I was talking about Jimmy Chilcutt, I found during the break a quote from him in a 2000 interview that I did with him.
		And he had told Field and Stream magazine in an article about his work for the Texas Police Station, quote, I can assure you, there is an animal up in the Pacific Northwest that we have never seen, close quote.
		And I think that that really sums up what everybody who has seriously studied Sasquatch Bigfoot Yeti thinks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do agree with you.
		I think there seems to be increasing evidence.
		Now I notice there are those doing DNA work as well, right?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		There is Melba Ketchum.
		She did a release earlier this year or at the end of last year, and it was about her doing DNA sequencing that proved that the Sasquatch was a combination of Homo sapien and a primate that was probably a lemur.
		Now, I interviewed her.
		I read her entire website.
		I have read all of the critiques of her, of which there have been more than any support.
		And I think that part of the problem is that she did not have any easy way to work with, we'll call them formal laboratories, because as soon as she would tell them that she was trying to do genome sequencing on Sasquatch, they would back off.
		I don't know at this point the whole issue of contamination of DNA.
		That is a big deal.
		And neither you nor I nor anybody who is not in what's called the paper chain, where you know you have the same person, the same process, the same scientist gets the tissue that has the DNA.
		You know where it goes.
		You know to what lab, you know where it's kept, it's kept locked, it's dealt with.
		The whole chain, paper chain on true credible science means that you are always trying to protect against contamination.
		And in this story of what Melba Ketchum did, apparently it is hard to, or at least many scientists Are critical that that is not confirmed or that it wasn't protected.
		And here, how do any of us get a reality check on what was the contamination or lack of contamination?
		And that's the problem right now on that research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, chain of custody issue.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Add contamination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's try this.
		This is such an interesting question.
		What do you think is the reason?
		I mean, all these cattle mutilations and other mutilations that have been going on, they're horrible, but they must have a reason.
		In other words, if extraterrestrial biological entities are doing this, and it seems like they would, I mean, if our government wants cattle into, they can find plenty of them.
		They don't need to beam them up from the middle of the field somewhere.
		So what would they be looking at?
		Why would they be doing this?
		Do you have a guess?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll take you back for a moment to the first shock, like a 220-volt circuit that I had with he had just retired from the Logan County Sheriff's Office in Northern Colorado in Sterling.
		It was Sheriff Tex Graves.
		And from 1973-74 period on to when I sat with him for the first time in September of 1979, I was working on the documentary that would come to be known as A Strange Harvest.
		And I started on it in 1979 as director of special projects at the CBS station in Denver.
		And I did so because my beat was then and has been since I graduated from Stanford in 1968.
		If I had given 66, it was 1968 when I graduated.
		My beat was science and medicine and environmental issues, both in my work at Stanford, in the films that I was making and when I got out.
		And Tex Graves was the first sheriff that I was referenced to as being somebody who had been by then to about 236 mutilation sites.
		Think about that.
		One sheriff in one place and know that in the state of Colorado during that period of time that each county in some sections was having over 200 animal mutilations.
		So in Colorado alone, in a five to ten year period, there were thousands.
		All right, there were thousands.
		So now I'm going for the first time trying to get my bearings in a story that I only have the Denver Post and the Rocky Mountain News and the TV stations away from my own TV station reporting all these strange, bloodless, unusual deaths.
		So he had retired and was in a vacuum cleaner shop in Logan that he was repairing vacuums after being a sheriff for so long.
		And he had gotten for me specifically to look at, I remember the count, because I counted them all out on the floor, 266 color Polaroid photos that he had taken of all these mutilations.
		And as I went through, there was one particular one that I asked him about.
		It was a steer, a heavy steer, a big steer, all black, lying on its right side and the front legs and the back legs were together so neatly in such neat parallel that it looked artificial.
		But this is the way the sheriff photographed it at the mutilation site.
		That nothing had moved.
		Those hooves were on dry powder and they are neat.
		There's no movement.
		There's no struggle.
		There's no tracks around this body, not even the steer's own tracks.
		And the head was down in a hole that the sheriff told me was eight inches deep.
		And he said he stood there looking.
		The ear, the eye, the tongue, the jaw, the genitals, and the rectum are gone.
		The legs are as neat as a pin.
		No tracks.
		And here the head is down in an eight-inch hole.
		And he said, Linda, the only conclusion that we can draw is that whatever did this to this steer kept all of the body completely, tidally paralyzed and immobile, except for the head.
		And the head, in some sort of agony, dug an eight-inch hole before it died.
unidentified		Oh, good Lord.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Now, I felt several things at that moment.
		I felt rage at what seemed cruelty.
		I felt fear about a technology that could do this.
		And then I said to Sheriff Graves, you're describing something flaunting its ability as if there almost are calling cards in the way these mutilations are done, whether it's horses and cattle or dogs and cats, pigs, it's every domestic animal that you can think of.
		And I have seen photographs of deer, elk, marmots that have been subjected to exactly the same bloodless excisions.
		And the U.S. Forestry Service has known about them.
		And when I said to Sheriff Graves, it feels like something is flaunting, he looked at me, smoking a cigarette, eye to eye, and he said, the perpetrators of these animal mutilations are creatures from outer space.
		And it was that 220-volt circuit hit me.
		I was Alice going through the mirror into a brand new land when Sheriff Tex Graves said that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that the moment?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was, exactly.
		When Sheriff Tex Graves that day said the perpetrators are creatures from outer space, and I felt the shock that I did, and I had a 90-minute special to do for the CBS station in Denver, and that I spent nine months, literally 18 hours a day, seven days a week, not one break, not one vacation.
		I worked solid for nine months.
		And I traveled in four states, and I saw so many of these unusual animal sites with no tracks around them, the clean, bloodless.
		And it is the precision of the true animal mutilations that gets to you.
		They are surgical.
		And here is a piece that many, many people overlook.
		I've reported it a lot, and I think people don't want it to be true, and so they sort of blank this part out.
		It's very true.
		Knee cropsy after knee crops, a veterinarian will cut open one of these mutilated animals in which there are no surgical excisions on the chest or abdomen part of the animal.
		But when they get inside, there is no heart muscle.
		The pericardium is there.
		There are no cuts in the pericardium.
		That's the translucent sac that surrounds the heart.
		And to keep in mind, the heart of an adult cow or bull is somewhere in the 7 by 9 by 11 or 12 inches.
		These are huge muscles.
		To get an entire heart out of a bull, a steer, a cow, or even a heifer, and even a calf, to get it out of the body without an excision in the chest is considered impossible.
		And then you add on to it the cases where the veterinarian finds the translucent pericardium that surrounds the cow's heart.
		We have pericardiums around our heart.
		And it's lying in the chest, deflated, but there's no cut, there's no blood, there's no fluid, there are no blood clots.
		And the veterinarian that did this first with Tex Graves, he encountered this, and Tex told me the very first mutilation of a cow up around Sterling that he had gone to was somewhere around 1974, and he asked the vet to come out and do a knee cropsy, because he's looking at this ear-missing, eye-missing, tongue, jaw, genitals, and rectum cord out and said, Linda, the cow was warm to touch.
		It was that fresh and no blood and no tracks.
		So the vet comes.
		The vet opens up the cow.
		I've watched necropsies done in the field and it's like watching somebody dissemble a car engine.
		But they do it in a life form, a cow, and they do it very neatly, piece by piece by piece, looking for all kinds of anomalies.
		And he said, when that veterinarian showed him there was no heart, the pericardium was there, no cut, no blood, and no excision, the veterinarian said to Sheriff Tex Graves, don't call me out on another one of these.
		I refuse to stand in front of the media and say, I have no idea how this was done and this is impossible.
		Now that gives you a behind the scenes of many, many variations on what has happened between veterinarians doing necropsies for real behind the scenes, while law enforcement would say to the local media, it's predator, disease, or satanic cult, knowing that was a lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You've absolutely convinced me, although I was already, that it's not humans that have done this.
		It's non-human entities that have done it.
		Again, the question, why?
		In other words, what are they trying to discern by doing this?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, this begins to move into a very difficult and complex and sensitive subject about genetic harvest from this planet, probably for millennia, in order to produce genetically manipulated containers that could be standing up Homo erectus primates,
		Neanderthalis, Homo sapiens sapien, our current model, plus every conceivable kind of every other container that you've ever heard of from centaurs to unicorns, in experimentations on this planet, in this solar system, that has a particular gravity, a particular atmosphere, a lot of water.
		And when it comes to the why, it's even more difficult.
		And so I'm going to flesh out a little bit about this whole issue of a technology that can take genetic harvesting from whatever the entity or creature is and then turn it into something else that is usable to the non-humans.
		I've done four books.
		Three are big, eight and a half by eleven, 400 some pages each.
		And I did that so that I could put big photographs, big documents, everything clear in these books.
		And in my Third book, Glimpses of Other Realities, Volume 2, High Strangeness.
		There is one entire section about what some abductees have referred to as resurrection technology.
		And one of the most dramatic in this whole, it's a big chapter, many people that have had this interaction with this technology.
		And one of the most dramatic was a woman named in the book, Linda Porter.
		And I drove from Los Angeles up to an area in Porterville, California to meet with her back when I began working on this book between 1994 is when Glimpse's Volume 1 came out about animal mutilations, crop circles, human abductions, and a taxonomy that I did from the illustrations that people had done over 30 years.
		And then by 1998, Glimpse's Volume 2 came out.
		So I was working on all of this between 1992, 93.
		And that's when I went to see Linda Porter.
		And she had sent me the clearest, she was an artist to begin with, of a series of drawings about what had happened to her between her teenage years and about her 20s.
		And it included having a beam of light.
		Many people remember a beam of light.
		They don't exactly remember what happens, but she remembered a beam of light.
		And then as a young teenager, she was inside of some kind of a craft or a round room.
		And what happens in very summarized for the radio broadcast tonight is that a praying mantis looking creature, eight foot tall, which does come up in lots of abductions even if you don't hear about it much,
		appears, and at first she was terrified, and the tall praying mantis put into her mind a sense of deep sadness about her and all humans.
		And it was accompanied by a sense that this praying mantis was so ancient that it could be as old as our solar system, as incomprehensible as that is, and that these praying mantis are made, programmed to monitor the evolution of life in entire solar systems.
		We're getting into the world of Michio Kaku's theorizing about very advanced civilizations having this ability.
		And that when humans are in the presence of the praying mantis, the praying mantis has the ability to calm the human's natural fear of the way they look.
		And what he did next, he took the young teenage Linda Porter to a round, small container, almost like a small room, and showed her all of this dense yellow sparkly light inside of it.
		And then, as if saying, this is one piece of what you need to understand, he walked her into a room nearby and said, watch.
		And now it's a gray type entity.
		We can get into the distinctions of gray androids that are robots and prime intelligence grays and that there are all kinds.
		And now what she's seeing is what I would call more the prime intelligence in the gray category.
		They have vertical snake eyes, they have gray pebbly skin, usually it looks slightly reptilian, and they are quite different from the three-foot tall, we'll call them androids, that have the big black eyes and the pear-shaped heads and the little bodies.
		There's a big difference.
		So now she's in the presence of what appears to be a prime intelligence gray who walks over to a bed-like apparatus upon which there is lying a male human.
		And the gray reaches down and she even, Linda even asked me, could this be possible?
		Are they doing this in front of me like a hologram?
		Because this is what occurs.
		The gray's long four fingers just seem to pass through the man's chest.
		And out of the man's chest, the gray being comes up holding the man's heart and shows it, no blood, totally dry, shows it to Linda Porter and she gets telepathic thoughts like this.
		It is important that the entity, and she gets the symbol or gets communication that when they say entity, they are meaning soul, spirit, the animus of life.
		That the man's entity and this particular container of the man's body, it's important that the soul remain inside of such a container for a longer period of time than the man's body is willing to give because the man is dying of heart disease.
		And the gray communicates that they are letting this version of the man die.
		But over in a tube, and when there's a gesture, now she sees that there are these tubes that have various people in them.
		And one she recognizes in the tube, it has light above and light below, is a man who looks a little bit younger than the man on The table and the gray being communicates telepathically to her because it is important for the soul spirit,
		but he uses the word entity to stay inside of this type of container, we are going to revivify him in this cloned body, in this tube that we can preserve and control, and we are going to put him in Australia and in his home in the United States, he will die.
		So the non-humans, right, are showing a teenager that they have the ability to allow a container to die while they simultaneously are resurrecting a cloned, preserved body because there is something extremely important to study about the soul-spirit interaction with Homo sapiens, sapiens.
		This is very complex, and we can keep going in this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By all means.
		So they're studying that soul.
		That is a, how would you put it?
		I guess.
		He was a case study.
		And for some reason, they needed that soul to continue.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, what if part, because I don't think they're studying just one thing.
		I think this is a huge, complex, 16-layer chess game that's going on concerning various agendas by various non-humans, and the non-humans themselves may not always get along, about this political question.
		What is allowable to do with life?
		If Homo sapiens sapien is the product of genetic manipulation in already evolving primates going back to Homo erectus, as the alleged presidential briefing paper that I was shown at Kirtland Air Force Base on April 9, 1983 said,
		it says that in there, then we must have been made the way we are with our tendency toward violence and self-destruction and all the things that humans are for some reason.
		And there have been so many wars on this planet in arguments about whose God is superior to another.
		And all these wars have produced the death of containers.
		Now, if you step back a little bit wider and you go back to a discussion that I had back in the early 1980s when I was still working on animal mutilations with a man that I later learned his paycheck came from the Central Intelligence Agency, but to the outside world, he would have been a military person.
		And he told me that he had been exposed to the whole concept of Truman and the Majestic 12, and that he had had some assignments in the military having to do with non-humans in which our government was trying to do rudimentary communication with some type of the greys,
		that they had found that the very tall blondes and the tall red-haired types wouldn't communicate, and that there was this other group that here's another thing that no one wants to be true.
		People will say the idea of standing up lizards or standing up alligators, it's so repugnant and they won't go there, even though abductees say this is another type present in all of this.
		I always ask people who say that's not possible, that's somebody making up a science fiction story.
		Our own biblical history has a Garden of Eden in which Adam and Eve are there allegedly as first human form.
		And what is there also?
		A very intelligent serpent that communicates with Eve all about things like getting out of the garden and learning about technology, science, life, and all of these things that are called the temptation of Eve and the dropping of the innocence of the first prime homo sapien.
		Well, who is that serpent in the Garden of Eden for real?
		And what is the relationship between the historic reptilian undercurrent in so much religious literature and the gray beings, the prime intelligence with the snake-like eyes,
		and the tall, blonde, and red-haired humanoids that can have either crystal blue eyes or the blondes have been seen with very gold eyes like the Greeks.
		And a lot of people don't realize that the Greeks on this planet are the only ones in bloodlines that have very yellow gold eyes.
		Some of them, I have a cousin who's Greek and she has yellow gold eyes.
		And that there are all kinds of contradictions and confusions in our own religious and earth history that when you come to these stories that I've run into and have published in Glimpses of Other Realities about people being shown by beings,
		mixtures of beings, that their body and the relationship of the container to the soul-spirit has some very profound meaning to these non-humans and they are trying to study it.
		And one day, in discussing all of this with a colleague, somebody Suggested that I study the Gnostics, going back to Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism.
		And the interesting thing is, when you go back to that over 2,000 years old literature, you run into a, well, let's just call it a big box view of the cosmos and how this universe is working that has to do with the recycling of souls in a reincarnated process that is the machinery of the universe in which the soul spirit,
		the animus in each life, goes in and out of different containers, sort of like one metaphor was, think of a sewing machine and the way the needle goes in and out of stitches.
		Any soul spirit could have that many stitches up and down in and out of bodies.
		And we have been told historically in the current age that reincarnation has been set off to the side of possible mythology.
		The idea of tall reptilian humanoids have been set off into the realm of science fiction.
		That the idea of a serpent having something to do with the beginning of humans is set as mythology.
		These are all the words to put an insulation between what might have been historically extraterrestrial biological entity terraforming, and that's the word, terraforming and manipulating genetic material on the surface of this planet.
		And now I'm going to give you a number art that was given to me in 1999 by a man who had retired from the Defense Intelligence Agency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Linda, can you hold tight for a moment?
		We've got to do a break.
		So stay right there.
		Boy, when you start talking about souls, and particularly about containers, for me, it really echoes heavily as something from the past.
		Something John Lear talked a lot about.
		I wonder how many of you remember that.
		How many of you have heard that echo?
unidentified		Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate And maybe tell you about Phaedra And how she gave me life
		And how she made it in Some velvet morning when I'm straight I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate
		I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate
		I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate
		I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate
		I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate I'm gonna open up your gate be part of Dark Matters this night, please direct your finger digits to dial 1-855-REO UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes the music helps to kind of calm you.
unidentified		This is rough stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm telling you, while you may not make the connection and you may be new to this program, some of the things that Linda's saying about containers, souls, a kind of a recycling of souls and moving around of the various containers, they have echoes of exactly what John Lear said.
		John Lear is the son of Bill Lear, Learjet Fame.
		And he said some wild stuff, but a lot of what he said really sounds like some of what Linda's saying right now.
		And I don't think that I've ever heard Linda say some of the things she's saying tonight.
		Linda, welcome back.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Art, that is true.
		I wrote about this in my books because it is somehow when people buy a book and they read it, they're giving their permission to read all of the information in the book.
		And when it came to radio and television, I have been shy, sensitive, aware that this is very difficult material.
		But this is getting toward the end of 2013.
		And I think a lot of people feel the same way that you and I and others do, that we seem to be coming to some sort of a critical juncture in the evolution Of this planet.
		The feeling on the whole earth now reminds me of when you heat up water on a stove.
		You can see it become sort of jittery, but there comes that moment when it goes from the water just trembling to a full roily oil.
		And there is something about right now and going forward that I feel is like that and that it is more than past time for all of us to be able to share at least some of the profound implications that have been there in front of us for a very long time.
		And it's partly out of frustration that the governments of the United States, England, and Australia and Canada from World War II, they know a great deal and that there have been these policies of denial allegedly in the interest of national security that are still ongoing today when they know we're not alone in this universe.
		They know that there are all kinds of intelligences.
		And what I started to say just before the break, in December of 1999, a very complex series of connections were made by a man in the World Bank to get a man who was retiring from the Defense Intelligence Agency who had seen my book,
		Glimpses of Other Realities, Volume 2, High Strangeness, and was shocked that in that chapter about the resurrection technology and the, we'll call it the revivification or reviving clone bodies to continue on some sort of a monitored living latitude,
		longitude here on Earth, the DIA guy went to the World Bank man and asked for a meeting.
		And the meeting had to be on some ground that the DIA guy chose.
		And I was posed with would I travel and all of these things that I've done in my life and thank God I'm still alive.
		But I decided that this was worth trying to do this meeting.
		And when we went to this neutral ground for the discussion, I asked him if he would please tell me at least what he had done for the Defense Intelligence Agency for 23 years before he retired.
		And these are his words.
		My job for 23 years was to monitor and analyze the geopolitical territorial conflict of three competing extraterrestrial biological entities on this planet.
		That's a quote.
		And then, in a very long seven-hours discussion of which I'm just going to share this piece, he said that in the work that he had done, he had been exposed to this, we'll call it the tube resurrection technology, but he said, Linda, it is so compartmentalized.
		It is so classified that when I opened up your book and I am seeing an entire chapter with illustrations by many people of exactly what I thought was so classified that nobody knew, he said, that's why I had to meet and talk with you.
		And he said, and this is the number that I told you I was going to tell you because it's sort of, I was surprised by this.
		He said that his group, we'll call it that, operated with some sort of knowledge that he seemed to accept as a given, that at least one or two of these Michio Kaku advanced intelligences that can get from where they are to here because they can bend space and time and move point to point,
		that they had been here terraforming and genetically harvesting this planet Earth, and this is a quote, for more than 270 million years.
		And when he said that, my mind immediately went back to the dinosaurs.
		And I said to him, you're talking about before the time of the dinosaurs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way before.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And he said, Linda, one of these groups manipulated genes on this planet to produce the dinosaurs.
		Now, that's not the first time I had heard that.
		I had actually heard that statement that we're dealing with some sort of an advanced intelligence that was responsible for setting in motion the evolution of the dinosaurs.
		I had heard this back in the early 1980s, but like so many people, we go through these evolutionary stages.
		I had no context to hear it.
		I was not prepared for such statements in the early 1980s.
		I was probably barely prepared for the discussion with this man.
		But today in 2013, my own hypothesis about all of this is that we are the latest model of a genetically tweaked, evolving, standing-up primate for reasons that are not clear to anyone, and probably not our government either.
		Why, as this man told me, the DIA guy in 1999, he said you might as well think of humanity as the 37th model of a Hoover vacuum cleaner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
		Melinda, just a quick interjection here, question for you.
		On the one hand, you're talking about extraterrestrials and mankind as being a product originally of extraterrestrials, or maybe the 17th version thereof, whatever.
		But you're also talking about souls.
		Now, I wonder, just I'm just curious, Linda, most scientists, most doctors, as a rule, don't believe in God.
		But here you are saying, on the one hand, we're Model 17 of whatever, and on the other hand, we have souls, which most people would associate with, you know, very deep religious belief.
		And you understand, I'm sure, the kind of tsunami that you're causing across that belief.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, let's go to what could be behind agendas to be on this planet or other planets.
		I don't think this is happening just on Earth.
		Let's just say, let's now go to a bigger box of what could be behind the concentration of efforts here.
		And this comes to something that I first introduced in Glimpses of Other Realities, Volume 2, in that large chapter in which there are abductees who have had these dealings with these tubes and the resurrection technology.
		And they all, they all.
		And this includes now modern interviews that I have done this year and last year and the year before of people still in the abduction syndrome that are still having encounters with these same varieties of beings.
		And everyone that I have done these interviews with are saying there is a conflict about what is allowable to do with life.
		And that boils down to both my book, Glimpses and Modern Experiences that I have been documenting at Earth Files more recently, that there is a huge argument between at least two types out there,
		sometimes described as being two factions of the tall blondes, in which the tall red hairs have already taken a Prometheus-like allyship with struggling dumb, blind, kept dumb and blind, Homo sapien-sapien, while two tall blonde factions conflict, war with each other, but not in the way we think of war.
		Theirs is mind against mind and mental sort of mental strength, and that they have the ability to neutralize gravity, use three-dimensional holograms on this planet that humans cannot tell, one tree that is a hologram that they're projecting from another.
		And that the third technology, there's like three rings, neutralizing gravity, holographic projections that are vividly like everything else around us, and the third is invisibility.
		And that you take those three powerful technologies to a conflict, a political argument like Democrats and Republicans, and the issue is one group thinks that the concoction,
		the evolution, the tweaking, the genetic manipulation of already evolving primates to create ultimately us, that we are less than a roach, because a roach would have evolved somehow naturally in the scheme of the divine field.
		And that those that are manipulating the DNA on this planet and other planets to create whatever they want, that they are wrong.
		And that somebody is going to put a stop to that cloning and that manipulation.
		And that this is the core of the fight that is going on around us, sort of in the unseen.
		Now, if this is true, if all of these abductees are describing something that would explain why there seem to be different types doing different agendas, ranging all the way from animal mutilation harvests to very inspiring where people have their minds are inspired or their bodies are healed.
		The UFO abduction and interaction field covers a wide span on a bell-shaped curve of everything from terrifying and mutilations to the most inspiring and completely healing.
		Now, if we understood the players, in football, we can tell the teams by the colors that they wear on the field and when they're in a massive ball in the field, we can still tell sort of of what's happening, who's on top and who's on the bottom.
		But when it comes to this gigantic phenomenon of advanced intelligences that manipulate through genetics, through timelines, and through minds, we are helpless.
		We do not know the players by the clothes they wear because here's another big part of this whole huge story.
		I've seen this too much to not or to say that I do not think what I'm going to say is true is not right.
		I think what I'm going to say to you is true.
		That we are dealing with other intelligences who have very complex agendas about the various lives and lives that they harvest and make and continue to study for perhaps this issue about where souls go at the moment of death.
		But coming back from that, in the process of doing All of this, the issue of being able to go down into a planet, Earth,
		and never be seen, but you have to get down close to study these beings that you want to manipulate and interact with without them ever knowing because that would destroy what they're trying to accomplish.
		And that the resurrection technology, all those illustrations in my book, Glimpses, High Strangeness by the abductees, that ability to construct new containers that are indistinguishable from the previous container,
		the abductees say that the non-humans do that all the time and project them, theirselves, into containers so that there is no way, except with technology of some sort, to tell the roly-poly humans from the humans that are camouflaged, so to speak, for the non-humans interacting with this planet.
		This is how complicated this gets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good Lord, Linda, you're actually talking about an invasion.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't even know that that's a fair word because I've come to think of it as if we got down on a Petri dish with bacteria to study it, we'd have to do something to get down into that Petri dish.
		And in a funny, strange way, the metaphor is that if you're an advanced civilization in the universe and you want to experience what it is like to be, let's say, evolving primates on Earth, then you make something in which you can project your consciousness into so that you can be close and upfront, but you don't want to be detected by that which you have made and are tweaking and are studying.
		So it's not an invasion because the last thing they want is our destruction, some of them.
		Some of them may think that we are not worth saving, but others do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yet it is a kind of invasion, though, Linda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if we become a container for a soul other than our own, we have indeed been invaded.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you're raising the question that once upon a time there was a fad about walk-ins and all of that.
		But I see this still differently, that the cloned body of the man who was put in Australia, his soul spirit has got into that clone.
		He doesn't may not even know anything about what happened.
		Only Linda Porter and the praying manus and the graves may know what has happened.
		So it isn't like another entity is in that body.
		It is that man's soul spirit.
		She saw this glowing material leave the dead body and go into the one in the tube, and he was revived and seemed normal and healthy.
		So there's that aspect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, perhaps not yet, Linda, but you have to imagine if they have the capability to do that, then if we're regarded as nothing more than containers.
		Anyway, listen, I'll leave it at that.
		I do want to ask something.
		We can watch what they do, Linda.
		So in the years that you have been documenting, for example, the mutilations, would you say that back then there were many, many, many and that it's trailed off?
		In other words, we can watch what they do.
		Have there not been as many mutilations in recent years?
		Is it trailing off?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No, they just change latitude-longitude.
		Really?
		Latitude, longitude is a key to animal mutilations, meaning that there are cycles of animal mutilations at certain latitude longitudes over and over and over again over decades, probably centuries.
		And that right now, from 2002 to 2013, there literally have been 5,000 or 6,000 mutilations in Argentina alone.
		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so it's just moving around.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It always has.
		The idea that the United States and Canada, because they've been reported, mutilations have been reported in every state and every province in Canada now since going back to the middle of the last century and probably back further.
		And the conversation that I remember in 79 fall when I started as a complete innocent on a strange harvest, I called the BBC and talked with a producer there because I was trying to find out if they had any more historical information about mutilations than I had from the famous September 1967 case in southern Colorado.
		And that's where the reporters got it all wrong.
		They said it was a male horse named Snippy.
		It wasn't.
		It was a female horse named Lady.
		That was September 67, the story that went around the world.
		That was the beginning, the breakthrough of mutilations to the public's consciousness.
		It was not the beginning of mutilations.
		And the BBC producer said that they had seen a journal that had been published in Australia about a 1911 case in which 104 sheep were found on an Australian billabong completely bloodless.
		There was no blood anywhere on any of the white hair.
		And around the 104 sheep, there were no tracks.
		No tracks.
		Not the sheep's tracks, nothing else's tracks.
		And an ear, eye, jaw, flesh, tongue, genitals, and rectums were cored out in all 104 sheep.
		Now, if that is valid, we've never been able to get to the people who were there, and it's always been that it was a journal, and we can't find it.
		If that's true, though, you're talking about all of the ingredients of the animal mutilations that are present today in Argentina, in the United States, in Canada, in England.
		It goes on and on, where all of that has occurred and continue to be bloodless and trackless.
		And in 1911, there were no lasers.
		There were no helicopters or beams.
		Okay.
		So now we have the same phenomena widespread there on that many animals in one site.
		And then you have sheriffs in 1979 telling me that the perpetrators are creatures from outer space.
		Why?
		Because they, with their own eyes, have seen what looked like a helicopter dissolve into a cloud.
		Have seen a beam come from something in the sky out over a pasture.
		Have seen, and ranchers, I've talked with ranchers, they will not go on the record because they are so afraid of being bashed by their fellow human beings.
		They say they have seen animals either rise in a beam of light on their ranch or be lowered and dropped from the bottom, which is very consistent with all of the dropped bodies that have broken bones that I have investigated.
		But the animals come down the beam and are dropped to the ground.
		And one rancher told me when he saw this, he was terrified and ran.
		He ran from the site and went back to his house.
		He waited till the dawn.
		He walked back out.
		The cow is where he saw it drop from the beam, and it had the ear, eye, tongue, jaw, genitals, and rectum cord out.
		Now, these are eyewitnesses which in the history of criminal law, two or three eyewitnesses could convict somebody for murder in a trial.
		And we are talking about many people who have seen the beams, who have seen animals rise or be lowered.
		And yet, those people are so afraid of being ridiculed that they'll talk to me.
		So I'm secondhand removed.
		I'm not the witness.
		But I can certainly share the fact that I have heard these descriptions of these beams lowering and raising animals.
		And I step back and say, if we could all be honest with each other and the governments be honest, this is enough evidence to open up the fact we're not alone in the universe.
		Other life forms have been coming here for a very long time.
		I personally feel no fear in all of this art.
		I honestly don't.
		I have walked the planet by myself.
		I have gathered tissue and fluid and soil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
		I know, Linda.
		Listen, hold tight.
		That's a whole avenue we want to go down.
		So let me get the break taken care of here.
		A hard scientist is what you're listening to, Linda Moulton Howe.
		And she began, as she described, and she ran into what she ran into.
		It sounds to me now as though she is reaching firm conclusions about that which she has investigated.
		And they're pretty out there.
		You've got to have guts to come forward with information like this.
unidentified		Got to have serious, really serious guts to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		This is Dark Matter.
		I can feel it coming in the air of night.
		Oh, Lord.
		And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life.
		Oh, Lord.
		Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?
		The End
		Oh, my God.
		Listen to the wind blow, watch the sunrise Listen to the wind blow, watch the sunrise Run in the shadows, damn your love, damn your life.
		And if you don't love me now, you will never love me again.
		I can still hear you say, you will never break the chamber.
		And if you don't love me now, you will never love me again.
		I can still hear you say, you will never break the chamber.
		Coming to you from Geosynchronous Orbit at the speed of light, this is Dark Matter with Art Bell.
		To call Art, please light up the lines at 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not yet.
		Not yet.
		As a talk show host, sometimes you talk, and then sometimes, if you're smart, you know when to shut up and listen.
		That's what we're doing tonight.
		Linda Molten Howe is here, and she's going into areas, darker areas, I guess I would say, than I've ever heard her go into before.
		I've heard her talk about the investigations she's done, all the mutilations, the things you're hearing about tonight, but never into the areas she's leading us through this evening.
		Linda, how do you decide to make that leap?
		I mean, you know, you began with hardcore investigation, a lot of what you've told us about tonight, and now I asked for it.
		I wanted to know the why of it all, and you're giving it to me.
		But this is kind of a place that you've never gone with me before.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Not with you, but it's in my books.
		It is in my EarthFiles reports.
		Remember, I've been producing my news website, EarthFiles, since 1999.
		It's now 2013.
		And in the Real X-Files section of EarthFiles, I set it up and have let audiences know that in the Real X-Files, I would put all of the graphic photos that are really not anything but pristine generally with mutilations,
		but that I keep the photos separate from children and people who might be offended by the animal mutilation photos in Real X-Files.
		And I also place all of the content that relates to what we've been talking about the last hour in a whole series.
		There's probably over 100 reports that I have done at EarthFiles in the Real X-Files that relates to this whole issue of containers, soil recycling, genetic manipulation, and the issues of agendas as they have come through human abductees or people who have been in the military or have been exposed.
		So it's all, everything I'm saying is in EarthFiles, and especially for people who are subscribers to EarthFiles who have been, who have been readers of a 12-part series I did with a man who called himself Joshua Reinhall.
		Many, many people responded to that 12-part series that I did about a year and a half ago.
		That's not his name, but he is a hard-nosed insurance detective in the Northwest.
		And he came to me after he had heard me do an interview with another abductee who was talking about the issue of conflict, a conflict going on between intelligences about what to do with humanity that has been made and concocted on a planet that has a concocted history and that there is great conflict about whether we survive or not.
		He heard me doing that particular story and he got in touch with me and said, I would like to tell you that I have had encounters with the praying mantis, with a blonde type,
		has seen some of the greys, but his bottom line was that he was shown a conflict going on between different intelligences over what we are and what should be done, and that a blonde in a room, in a craft, caused a very detailed hologram, three-dimensional hologram to suddenly emerge in the room.
		Many abductees have seen this.
		And that he was then telepathically given a download as this three-dimensional hologram continued to evolve and become more detailed.
		And this is sort of a summary.
		And this is all in the 12-part Earth files about Joshua Reinhall.
		He says that there are advanced intelligences who never invade a planet.
		Never.
		They have learned to work through DNA manipulation in, let's say, eggs and sperm of mammals to produce fetuses that will grow up with certain genetic traits that will move a society or a planet toward a goal.
		It could be peace, it could be who knows.
		And that from the perspective of the advanced intelligences, manipulation and placement of a particular egg and sperm to create a certain type can be done 2,000 years ago with the goal of affecting, changing the timeline that Earth might have been on 2,000 years in the future.
		And that they have come to understand how to work with genetics in timelines to evolve in a positive way whole life forms that they're studying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you had an analogy a while ago, the water, you know, getting ready to boil.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I couldn't agree more.
		I can feel it, and I sense that many, many, many others can feel it as well.
		Something's getting ready to start bubbling hard.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're on the edge.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But I don't think it's anything to be afraid of.
		Perhaps because through all of this, these long paths of trying to understand All of this.
		I have just come to a certain piece inside myself that if there were a lot of destruction, I really do believe that the soul energy does go on.
		And if it goes a different timeline and as several abductees have said, here I'm quoting from the famous Brian Scott case, I think there is going to be a lot of conflict on this planet over what we are, what we human beings are, and what the ETs think should happen to us.
		But we're going to grow up, and I think we're going to mature on the planet Earth.
		And when it's over, humanity will be willing finally to accept a thousand years of peace.
		Now that resonates and echoes in the New Testament, clearly, of an apocalyptic time in which it says when it's over, that there will have been a, we'll call it a prevailing on the side of peace, hopefully, and love and harmony, and that there would be at least a thousand years of peace.
		Now that's in a religious text.
		This quote is from Brian Scott, an abductee who was an incorrigible and was picked up by the tall red hairs from the desert in Arizona and was really put through the paces to see, I guess, what he could take.
		That's the way he interpreted it.
		And it now is as if all of humanity is being pushed and that politically all kinds of shocking things have been happening and that that sense of the boil does not necessarily mean something catastrophic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of all these different entities, I'll use that word, that may be interested in us and or directing us or attempting to affect us, do you think they're all benign or do you think that, I don't know, when you look at our world, Linda, you see a yin and a yang, and there seems to be a yin and a yang to almost everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder if there's a yin and a yang to the others as well.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can reference what some people listening may or may not have been exposed to a series of reports that came out in the last three years, allegedly about some astronauts from our planet going secretly,
		never to have been made public, to Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2, and that there were some of us, just like Spielberg's movie, that went to this planet and then returned, and that this was part of an alleged,
		and these papers were called the SERPO papers, that this was presented to Ronald Reagan at the very beginning of his first term in office by the CIA director, NSA, and various intelligence agencies.
		And the transcript, allegedly, of this Oval Office briefing about extraterrestrials is included in this big, long series of reports.
		And in studying this particular alleged transcript, none of which anybody can prove without the formal backing of the U.S. government, we all know that.
		We are all at a disadvantage.
		The government holds all the marbles when it comes to absolute proof, and they don't want us to know.
		But assuming that there is maybe total truth or some truth in this transcript, Ronald Reagan is given first a kind of superficial, we're not alone, there are different types.
		They've been coming here a long time.
		We know where some are from.
		We're in control.
		That's how the briefing went.
		And then...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The...
		I mean, how do you tell a U.S. President there are those here from type 2 or type 3 civilizations, if you will, Linda, and we're in control?
		Please.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I agree.
		But you can sort of imagine how that would go down with that president at that time for at least a section.
		And then the transcript becomes surprisingly more detailed about the different types and that they are using, whether it's a Latin or whatever it is.
		They refer to them as archoloids and trontiloids and there are these names that are in this briefing for the different types.
		And they include the talls that would be a tall humanoid, probably in the bond and red hair.
		It includes the grays.
		It includes acknowledging that there are androids.
		They are not all biological independent prime intelligence.
		It goes into a type that it does not define.
		It does refer to something that would be in the reptilian.
		And then it talks about, I believe, the trontiloids as being insect-like.
		And they are referred to in this alleged briefing for the President Reagan as hostile, the word is there, hostile alien visitors referred to as HAVS.
		And Reagan in the alleged transcript asks lots of questions about this type And says, well, what's going to happen?
		Can it hurt us?
		Should we be prepared?
		And they say, we do have concern about this insect type.
		What is that concern?
		And what is it like in 2013 if this is a real briefing for a sitting president in the first term of Reagan back in 1980?
		What would it be like now?
		And what is interesting to me about this, when you read this whole alleged transcript, that some of the details about the different types do ring true from the abductions, but there are no, at least I'm not aware, of maybe not even one, in which people have said that they were dealing with a full-fledged insect in front of them.
		Now the praying manus, I understand that would be in an insect category as we would know it.
		But I don't know of a single case in which anybody has had violence or anything done to them badly by the praying mannus.
		They may have been terrified.
		They may have some sense of being really freaked out.
		But there seems to be some difference.
		And what is interesting is that I have tried very hard to see if I could get somebody to leak to me any kind of an illustration, let alone a photograph, of what is this so-called insect tratiloid that would be in the hostile category.
		And I have had some people say they thought that they might get me something, but they never have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I was about to ask, where are the Snowdens with this kind of information?
		Surely at some point it would have either happened by now or will happen shortly.
		Somebody's going to walk out with the kind of information you're talking about and away we go.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would personally welcome it.
		I think that the 7 billion human family in all of its shades, colors, and beliefs deserves the real truth that we're not alone in the universe and let the chips fall where they may.
		And the government side says someday it will be looked back in history that all the things that the United States government did for 60, 70 years to keep all of this from the American public and the world,
		that those people in Franklin Delano Roosevelt's administration at least was the beginning through Truman and on up with the last sitting president having any detailed information would have been Kennedy and then perhaps this Reagan briefing that but that most of the presidents have been kept in the dark because they have been afraid of the consequences.
		And in fact, I did in 2004 when I moved to Albuquerque from Philadelphia there was a story I had done and it had provoked great interest from a man who had been in the Navy and I have a videotape at YouTube and at EarthFiles about this interview and this story and what it boils down to he was in essentially the Southeast Asian area
		at a point back in the end of the 70s when a whole complex series of events happened with some colleagues, one of which had access to a safe of classified material.
		And on Thanksgiving night, I believe it was 1978 or 6, he was with another man taken into a safe.
		It was one of those classified safes.
		And the man who was sort of hot-rodding
		said I want to show you something and pulled out a file it said Roswell it had photos of non-humans in a hangar in a truck on the ground close-up photographs that were done in what was not very good light but it was clearly not human and then the document was about how these were retrieved from one or more sites in Roswell and that he read this and saw these photos with his own eyes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're aware, aren't you, of the current rumors about Roswell photographs that are said to exist and somebody, family, I guess, does not want to release them because of what they're going to have to go through.
		Hold it right there, Linda.
		We're going to take our break and we'll be right back.
		from the high desert and the great american southwest I see them blue for me.
unidentified		And I think to myself, what a wonderful blue,
		the glad the brightness of the day, the dark favourite night, and I think to myself, What a wonderful world.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		We had to get out before the magic got away.
		We were born with the night, playing the true shadow.
		Up to at night, to the morning light.
		matter, much like Sirius XM, is all around you.
		To beam up with us, please dial 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, tell you what I'm going to do.
		I've got a couple other things that I really want to ask Linda about.
		It's such an unusual opportunity, but I'm going to open the lines right now and allow you to begin the call if you have questions.
		Once again, our phone number here is 855-REAL-UFO.
		Easy number.
		855-REALUFO, or, if you will, 855-732-5836.
		You're listening to Linda Moulton Howe, who for the better part of her whole life has been investigating all of this.
		And I'm sure you have questions.
		How could you not have questions?
		Linda, welcome back.
		Just very quickly, I was saying that one day a Snowden is going to walk out, or the equivalent of a Snowden.
		As a matter of fact, it's kind of interesting.
		Since the releases by Snowden, there have been all kinds of things on the internet, allegedly from Snowden, that relate to UFOs, ufology, all the rest of it.
		But it's getting very difficult to know what's real and what's not.
		I just think one day somebody's going to walk out with all of this kind of information.
		I hope so anyway.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, this Navy guy I was talking about before the break, Thomas Coleman Shepard is his name.
		He went on the record with his real name, provided me all of his military records, photographs, everything.
		He is who he says.
		And he saw all this photos and documents about Roswell, and a whole lot of stuff hit the fan.
		And later on, in the early 1990s, he was still in the Navy and he was in Virginia.
		And he was known by a few high-ranking people as the guy who saw the Roswell photos and the documents.
		And he gets called in to go to the office of a three-star in the Navy who was working for a four-star in Washington, D.C. Space Command.
		So this is some of the higher-ranking people.
		And he's called in to go to an office, and this three-star working for four-star Space Command wants to know precisely what Thomas Coleman Shepard saw in Okinawa at White Beach Naval Base, Thanksgiving night, November 1976.
		And so he tells the whole story.
		And suddenly, the three-star says to Thomas Coleman Shepard in this office back east, when Thomas Coleman Shepard called them aliens, this is a quote.
		No.
		We call them EBAs for extraterrestrial biological entities.
		And Thomas Coleman Shepard never heard anything like that before.
		And so he started asking this three-star, well, what's the whole thing about?
		How long is the government known?
		And does the president know?
		And this three-star says, I can't tell you that.
		And then Thomas Coleman says, well, when are you going to tell the world?
		And the three-star says, probably never.
		And Thomas Coleman Shepard says, never.
		What do you mean, never?
		Everybody deserves to know the truth.
		And the three-star said, it would shake things up too much.
		It will collapse religions.
		And it will, and there was a long list.
		And we, again, this strange phrase, we have control over the situation.
		Now, what I just shared with you really happened.
		This is real.
		And the implication that there would be policies to perpetuate a concocted world, a concocted reality, that lies would become formal policy about the fact that we are allegedly alone in the universe and that nothing has been interacting with this planet.
		And that all of this would be like some sort of 1984 news speak forever, living on a planet in which the tiny 1% of the humans always knew some other kind of truth and kept a chokehold on the other 99% that were never to know.
		I personally feel that that is a huge mistake, that that would be headed towards some sort of gigantic earthquake in cultural evolution, and it would be much healthier for the whole planet to just be told the truth, let the chips fall where they may, and get on with a planet that comes into sync with this cosmos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there'd be a lot of chip falling, all right.
		All right, one other thing I really want to touch on, I know you've investigated for a long time.
		Years have gone by.
		We have noticed the Colony collapse of bees.
		Now, bees, they're pretty important to our existence, Linda.
		We've noticed a lack of bees here.
		What is going on?
		Where are we with the colony collapse problem?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It was February of 2007 that I did my first interview with Dave Hackenberg in Pennsylvania.
		He was the beekeeper who went to the University of Pennsylvania and Penn State and started the first cryout as a beekeeper.
		I lost 80% of my bees between the fall of 2006 and the spring of 2007.
		What is going on?
		And when I did that interview with Dave Hackenberg, the phrase colony collapse disorder was emerging for the first time.
		And Dave told me on that interview in February of 2007, Linda, other beekeepers and I think that what's behind this are the nicotine-based pesticides known then as imidicloprid and later clothianidin, and that EPA had only done what's called conditional registrations.
		All this poison was being rushed out into the markets for the profit-making of the producers, and that EPA did not have any legitimate science that would sort of hold up.
		Why would they okay the stuff going out when they didn't really know the impact?
		Well, 2013, there have been enough really good scientific studies now, not only in the United States but in Europe, and it is now known, this is a fair statement, that there is no measurable quantity of a nicotine-based pesticide that will not harm a honeybee.
		They have not been able to get down low enough.
		And what it does, it interrupts the nerves, the nervous system.
		And that apparently would explain why in colony collapse disease, which is a complex phenomenon, the bees go out to do their foraging and they can't get back to the hive because they're exposed to this nicotine-based pesticide, which basically blanks out their ability to think, orient, or do anything.
		And then, on top of everything else, the exposure to the nicotine-based pesticide also has an impact on their immune system.
		And so the varroa mites and nocema and all these other things can then attack these very vulnerable honeybees because of the nicotine-based pesticide.
		And we're sitting in a world now where countries like Italy and France and even Germany are trying to ban the nicotine-based pesticides.
		And in the United States, the beekeepers, the pesticide groups, all of the organic food groups have been trying to sue the Environmental Protection Agency for allowing an unproved poison out into the marketplace for at least the last decade.
		And no one seems to be able to break through the money-profit system that now exists between corporations, Congress, their pockets wired with corporate money that will not allow the penetration so far of the rational and scientific data that says we should not be using nicotine-based pesticides.
		They actually increase art in their toxicity over time in the soil if there are repeat applications which people have been doing.
		And we are living in a toxic mess now that is getting worse and worse.
		And probably some of the listeners have heard about the other nightmare that as the genetically modified crops and the Monsanto monopoly has been persisting, that when they would put Roundup on or whatever the herbicide inside the seeds was,
		that they would find, the farmers would find that gigantic weeds, weeds out of control, are now affecting the fields for some synergy between pesticides and these genetically modified crops.
		So now they're selling stronger poisons to put on the genetically modified crops in order to, quote unquote, control the out-of-control weeds.
		And you know that what I'm describing is an insane process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we lose all the bees, where are we?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		We will lose truly one-third of our food supply as it is grown in the United States today.
		Will other parts of the world that have banned some of these poisons be able to pick up some slack?
		I think it's unknown.
		But the bigger thing is, do we want a nation in which money that comes from poisons that kill pollinators and amphibians and other life forms, that the priority is given to the money instead of to the life forms which help feed us?
		That makes no sense to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
		All right, here come calls.
		Don't know what's ahead, Linda.
		Here we go.
		You're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe on Dark Matter.
		Hello.
unidentified		How dare you, sir?
		How dare you?
		You know who this is, Mr. Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		I do.
		And why would you pick this moment to call?
		Hold on, Linda.
		I've got to deal with this.
unidentified		Well, I picked this moment because I'm calling you out.
		This is J.C. Western III, God's Ten Star, Ten Star, Ten Star.
		You're on the war against media pornography.
		And I don't know what you're pulling, Mr. Bell.
		You're supposed to be retired, you see.
		You're retired, and I played against you to have you removed from the airwaves, and you are here by what is it, a social security scam?
		What are you double-dipping?
		Is that what's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, JC, I get the feeling that probably you're under stress because of your family breakup situation.
unidentified		Oh, don't you mock me about Edna Trangle.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So where's Edna?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me, where's Edna?
unidentified		I'm hollering the trail.
		I followed her all the way up to the Rockies, to west of the Rockies, east of the Rockies, and south of the border, on all sides of the river.
		Believe me, Mr. Moyes, you're trying to change the subject, though, Mr. Bell.
		What you're doing, I know what you're up to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're under strain.
unidentified		You're under strain.
		I'm offending a citizen's arrest against you.
		You have no right to remain talent.
		Anything you say can't hold me is against you in the court of God.
		You hear me?
		Oh, Jayce.
		Jay-C, of all times that you could show up when you've got this wealthy woman on who just will not stop her flap crap if you could tell her to take a bus.
		Well, I impart wisdom.
		But what I'm trying to do is affect the citizens' arrest on you.
		You're part of yourself and immediately, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never wanted to...
		Slap them on.
		Take me away.
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		And you're using the Soviet satellite system, which you're so proud of on your day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Soviet satellite system.
		All right, that's it, JC.
		Some other time.
unidentified		Goodbye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Soviet satellite system.
		It just so happens, folks, that the Sirius system of satellite coverage, which is unique, brilliant, was invented.
		He got something right out of all this by the Soviets, actually.
		This great Circle 8 that these satellites go in.
		Of all things.
		All right, let's try a real call.
		You are on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello?
		Yes, hello.
		Hi, my name is David, and I'm from Michigan.
		I'm a very new listener.
		I think I started listening to your program maybe a day or two after you came back on the air on Sirius.
		But with all the information and everything that I've heard shared from Richard Hoakland and the doctor from SETI and all that, it just I kind of had a,
		I don't know if it's epiphany or it's just a theory, but with the information that Linda shared tonight about the geopolitical alien pretty much their existence, they've been here since for millions of years, terraforming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid you're breaking up on us.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're kind of breaking up on us there.
unidentified		Yeah, sorry, I'm driving at the moment.
		With the prospect that the aliens have been terraforming this world and experimenting with new life forms and creating new life forms and pretty much experimenting in observing for Linda, a specific question?
		I was just wondering if it's possible that they're not just here to watch us.
		They're experiments and testing theories on evolution, and they've been doing this for millions of years.
		And it kind of ties in with the conversations and the things that were revealed when we were talking with Richard Hoagland about Mars and the moon and the possibility that there was a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you said that they've been experimenting or shepherding us for millions of years, and it does sound like that's what Linda has been saying.
		And it's a pretty tough pill to swallow, I would say, that, you know, these are the people that may be responsible for our creation, may be responsible for our evolution.
		They may be that which I guess we have called God.
		I really hate to put it that way, but I can't think of any other way to say it.
		Linda, is that accurate?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a fair summary.
		And it doesn't mean that there is not a divine field.
		It doesn't mean that there isn't an alpha omega in which there's no entropy, no deterioration, and time is infinite.
		That all is consistent with everything, because if the divine field is there, it's responsible for the creation of the matter worlds.
		And so whatever is going on in the matter worlds with a variety of evolutionary intelligences, they too would have a relationship with the divine field from my point of view.
		What we're talking about tonight are the increasing emerging pieces of this puzzle that say the evolution of standing up primates on this planet has been manipulated by extraterrestrial biological entities and perhaps more than one type of group that don't get along and that our evolutionary history is not Darwinian.
		It is from something that has a purpose and a goal.
		And if the purpose and the goal originally was to make smart machines, i.e.
		the standing up primates, as Zachariah Sitchin postulated in his books, to mine gold and to do labor on this planet that the non-humans did not want to do, that is probably a part of the story.
		But it doesn't end there.
		Something occurred.
		Some people have suggested that there was a moment in which the Greeks would have called it a hypostatic moment.
		As above, so below, the finger of the divine inserts itself into the matter worlds, and that is a hypostatic moment.
		The avatars of history would be a hypostatic moment.
		And that all of this is part of an evolutionary process.
		But the question is, is the end game to encourage and help humanity to get past the boiling water now and survive or not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess we're going to find out.
		Hope tight right there.
		Or of all things to have happen.
unidentified		I'm the middle of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's taking my breath away.
		And then JC comes and completely takes every breath away.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And this is Dark Matter.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
		What will you do if you lonely?
		Oh my gosh.
		You better touch it.
		Baby love.
		You got me on my knees, yeah.
		You got me running, going out of my mind.
		You got me thinking that I'm wasting my time.
		Don't bring me down.
		No, no, no, no, no.
		I'll tell you what more before I get off the floor.
		Don't bring me down.
		You want to see us with your fancy friends.
		I'm telling you it's gonna be the end.
		Don't bring me down.
		No, no, no, no, no.
		Ooh, ooh, ooh.
		I'll tell you what more before I get off the floor.
		Don't bring me down.
		Space, the new frontier for Art Bell's Dark Matter.
		To call the show, please dial 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
		Talk about stealing a moment.
		You punch one button, and it's like you've dimensionally shifted.
		Jay-C, good lord.
		All right.
		This is going to take me a while to get over this.
		My guest is Linda Moulton Howe, and the subject is very different.
		But Jay-Z just yanked it all away from me.
		Let's go here.
		You're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
		Good evening or morning, whatever it is.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Roswell Zark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Am I on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
unidentified		All right.
		Hey, this is Robert from Atlanta.
		And I want to say Namaste to both you and Linda.
		And it's a real treat to be talking to two of the greatest minds of the 20th and 21st century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, nice.
unidentified		Thank you.
		It was interesting when JC came on right after that.
		Helinda, you were talking about the matter world.
		And talk about going deep into the matter world.
		You can't get much of a better follow-up.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll just stay away from it.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But do you have a question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, I do.
unidentified		I'd like to switch gears as I could back to Dr. Ketchum and Sasquatch because she made the news again today.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And this was something back in March, I see an email, but I know you get tons of things and you have your hands in a lot of pot, a lot of pots, so to speak.
		This was a speculation I had that I know that with the DNA from the female side, that it shows it's human.
		And roughly around 13,000 to 15,000 years ago.
		Right.
		And then from the male progenitor lineage, it's an unknown thing, but the best that Dr. Ketchum came up with was that the closest thing that seemed to fit is a giant limber.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Which is extinct now.
		It went extinct back during that time when a lot of things changed.
		And then we had the black mass and the younger Dryas period and all that.
		And here's what my fault is, is that, as I know you've talked about this, how we have souls will go into vessels or containers.
		And that back at that time, there's speculation that there was a, you know, we hear about Atlantis.
		We also hear about Lemuria.
		And I'm thinking that there could have been a race of humanoids in the Muria that were, one might say, a type 2 civilization or higher.
		They were more into the internal things and doing things with their mind, telekinesis, et cetera, et cetera.
		And if they had foreknowledge that there were some great cataclysms coming up, the thing to do might be to create a new species, like I think you mentioned, to mix the genes and create a new species.
		And that new species I think they created could have been Sasquatch.
		If you take and look at a picture, some pictures of what the great Lemmur looked like, side by side with human, meld them together, you get something that looks sort of like Sasquatch.
		And it's almost an irony that Lemmur, Lemuria, you know, very similar.
		And so what I'm on, my question is to see if you think that is a possibility that advanced humans back then could have created Sasquatch and then move themselves into them.
		In other words, move their souls into those containers and they seem to be so that after the calamity, the things that happened here, they would have a body that would be much more able to handle things than the normal roly-poly humans.
		Okay.
		Because you don't.
		Yeah.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the thought behind that because I myself have, a year ago, I was in Turkey at Gobekli Tepe and wrote a long six-part series at Earth Files about my personal experience of being inside of these tall pillars in rings,
		of which only 5% of the hill have been revealed so far out of 14 years of work by the German archaeologist, and that it is the weirdest, eeriest, almost disturbing feeling to be there.
		And Dr. Robert Schock, PhD from Yale University, did the groundbreaking work with John Anthony West on the Sphinx concerning water weathering, that when you go to archaeoclimate research, the Sphinx, according to Dr. Schock's analysis, should be 14,000 years old.
		And to give a context for these numbers, we were in an ice age in the northern hemisphere reaching its peak 18,000 years ago, and then it began to warm up.
		And by 12,000 years ago, it was headed toward a warming.
		And Gobekli Tepe, the carbon dating so far of the last 14 years, is 12,000 years old.
		And there may even be parts of it where they will find older levels.
		At least there's been some talk about that.
		But let's say that Gobekli Tepe is 12,000 years old, and that something caused the intelligence that made Gobekli Tepe to completely cover it up about 1,000 years after it had been constructed.
		And that would be at about the time that Northern Arizona State University, working with other universities in the last four or five years, have been a series of papers about the fact that they have found nano-diamonds and iridium in layers in many parts of North America that would suggest that approximately 11,500
		years ago, there was an impact from something from outer space.
		Now, it could have been comet, it could have been meteor.
		The current research seems to think that it might have been one or more comets, and that the impacts are what caused the violence that literally twisted the saber-toothed tiger's spines 180 degrees.
		There are scientists who have studied all of the mastodons with the buttercups in their mouth, meaning there was immediate quick freeze, the saber-toothed tigers and the violence to their spines and on and on.
		Something huge and violent happened in the northern hemisphere at about that 11,500 year time period.
		Could an intelligence that was not human, but was based on this planet terraforming, harvesting, gathering all of whatever it's doing in that 12,000-year and going back period have known, anticipated, had technologies that knew that there was something coming from space that it either couldn't deflect, couldn't control.
		It leaves.
		The intelligence leaves after covering up Gobekli Tepe.
		And humanity managed to survive whatever it was that really clobbered North America.
		That's just hard physical evidence.
		And the question that's interesting to me is, we've had UFO phenomena and government leaks about extraterrestrials interacting with this planet for a very long time.
		If some of them left for a time, your question goes to the heart of another issue.
		Did they leave something behind on Earth to monitor and communicate with whatever technology they have that interfaces?
		And could something like a Sasquatch being be something that was made to be strong, could live underground, could do some kind of work, be beamed up into their craft, disappear in flashes of light because they have some sort of technology that allows that?
		It's not an unreasonable question, but a bigger question is, when are the makers of Gobekli Tepe and other terraforming on this planet going to come back on their own?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a big one.
		All right, here we go again.
		You're on the air with Lynn Moltenhow.
unidentified		Hello, Lynn.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thank you.
unidentified		Many Roswell to you, Lart.
		It seems that you cannot hide from the word of the new revelation.
		Glad to hear JC call in tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's serious, am I?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, do you have a question?
unidentified		I do, sir.
		I do.
		I might need a little bit of help from you, Lark, for this question.
		I know it might have been Michael Heiser that related the shape of the gray aliens to the human perception of what we may evolve into in the future.
		And I think that Fixed Foot may be the opposite of that, something stored in the collective unconscious of human beings of what we perceive to be a lower evolved life form and what we expect to see in the woods when the lights go out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well I don't think it was Michael Heiser, but perhaps Whitley.
		Now, Linda, do you think that we are headed toward evolving in that direction?
		Or being forced into evolving.
		In that direction might be a better way to put it.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I know that some of the scenarios are that we will have some sort of a nuclear event that will separate the human population into two categories.
		One will go off into the universe and become the gray beings and the others will go underground and become something else.
		And that this all has to do then with the issues about time being used to manipulate evolution.
		I'd like to just throw here onto this complicated chessboard another pawn that comes in a story I did at Earth Files probably about five or seven years ago in the Real X Files.
		It was the son of a man who was at Wright-Patterson in 1947 in the medical department.
		The father, before he died, told the son this, that in July of 1947, the father at home asleep at around 2 o'clock in the morning was waked by a phone telling him, ordering him to dress immediately, a car would come for him, and he was going to Wright-Patterson because they were going to do an autopsy and that he was needed.
		And the father said that he showed up and there were police or military people with all kinds of guns.
		And he was taken to one of the autopsy rooms and there were two surgeons already there.
		And that a general came to him and handed him a clipboard and said, the work I want you to do is to write down everything that you observe while the two surgeons are doing the autopsy because we want all of the details possible from their conversations and they can't do that while they work.
		So he stood with the clipboard with the assignment by the general to write down everything that happened.
		The being on the table was not human.
		The general said nothing about its source or its nature.
		The two surgeons had a discussion about whether they should start the autopsy in a Y or a T. People who are familiar with medical autopsy work will understand what that means, how you enter the body.
		And they made a decision, and one of the surgeons has the scalpel and comes down to make the cut, and the scalpel was hung up, not on tissue.
		But what he said out loud, this is fabric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fabric?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Fabric.
		And the father told the son that whatever we were dealing with, from his point of view and the surgeons, was not in the category of organic life as we know it, but was in the category of something like an android.
		Now that comes from somebody through a family of a father talking about something he experienced at Wright-Patterson in that period of time around the alleged Roswell, which was not the beginning of anything.
		I want to stress that.
		I feel that the leaked documents to Bob Wood, going back to the Interplanetary Phenomena Unit document that is tied in with the Majestic 12 group that Truman organized and has described this Cape Girardeau,
		Missouri is referenced in one of these documents, Cape Girardeau, Missouri, as being where our government retrieved what they called a neutronic propulsion device in 1941 and that it went to Robert Oppenheimer for some sort of application during the development of the Manhattan Project and the building of the atomic bomb that we dropped.
		Now, if that's true, and other documents that have been leaked go back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt and George Marshall, Secretary of War, having a discussion about what they call celestial vehicles,
		interplanetary vehicles that his administration knew about, and these details about the retrieval of bodies both dead and alive in a craft in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, then 1947 July is an artificial line drawn by this government as the beginning when it wasn't the beginning of anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed not.
		Okay, you're on the air with Linda Moltenhow.
		Good evening.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Roswell, my name is Zoe.
		I'm in Illinois.
		My question is this.
		Can I contact Linda through her website?
		I have a very brief story to tell you.
unidentified		I've been visited by these people she was talking about.
		I didn't ever hear anybody talk about the red-haired people.
		And it's just like, oh my God, I got to call.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I have medical records.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I could show her.
unidentified		I have been burned with oil over 75% of my body.
		They said I'd be blind.
		I have not a scar.
		I have taken into one surgery.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		They said I had a ripped intestine.
		Nothing.
		I've had...
		Yes, and everybody listening, you can communicate with me at my email address, which is the same name as my website, earthfiles at earthfiles.com.
		Think of a reporter who files news about the earth, earthfiles at earthfiles.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounded like she had medical evidence and a lot to go with it, so that would be the appropriate place to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Linda Motenhow.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Stacy from Atlanta.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stacy.
unidentified		Hi.
		Thank you both for everything that you're doing.
		I have a question for Linda.
		Based on everything that you've spoken about tonight, how do you think that this relates to what Dr. Jonathan Reed experienced when he came upon the being in the forest and the artifact that he found with the being and the claims that he has surrounding that artifact when placed on his wrist?
		And I'll take my answer off the air.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I don't even know if you are familiar with the Reed's story or not, but it's I had a very, very long discussion with him at the Eureka Springs Conference in Arkansas only a year or two after you had interviewed him on coast and all.
		And there were so many details that he said that seemed first-hand experience, but there were so many questions that seemed logical to me that he couldn't answer.
		And that I've always felt that after talking with him, that it is one of the most confusing cases that I've ever had a chance to talk with the person who experienced it in depth and have come away with a sense that I have no idea what really happened.
		And I don't know if you ever came to that conclusion or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was an amazing story.
		I'm going to leave it at that.
		It was just an incredible story.
		He had so much detail.
		He tells it with such emotion that I don't, you know, I don't know what to do with it.
		I don't know whether I believe it, disbelieve it, but he's a good storyteller.
		You're on the air with Linda Moltenhow.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		I got a question for Linda.
		It's nice to hear from both of you.
		My question to Linda is, with your research to the Sasquatch of the disemboweled animals, have you ever found any humans in that same situation where it's not been reported?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Oh, mutilations?
		It is a very sensitive subject, and I say that because the only cases that I've ever heard of don't have any supporting medical records.
		And that especially is true about the photographs that A.J. Guevard from Brazil showed in 1990 or 91 at a conference in Nevada and said they were like the animal mutilations that Linda Moulton Howe has investigated, and that was very untrue.
		And just to stress that I took his photographs that have been on the web and out there in the world for the last 23 years as human mutilations without any forensic, without any autopsy, without any real solid laboratory reports to go with those photographs for people who have not seen them.
		It is a man who appears to have flesh, not excise, but black rings about missing flesh in various parts of his body.
		And I showed the photographs to a medical doctor that I knew in Philadelphia, and I didn't front load with anything.
		I just said, if you were making a medical assessment of the wounds on this body, what would you say?
		And without hesitation, he said, oh, I saw a lot of that in Vietnam.
		And I said, what do you mean?
		He said, well, this is what Agent Orange does to human flesh or animal flesh.
		And he said, I would say that this is a body that somebody either murdered and then they covered up what they were doing with Agent Orange or something.
		But he said, this is definitely the chemistry of Agent Orange.
		Okay, so now there's a medical doctor's frank opinion about those photos that have circulated for 20-some years linked to animal mutilations as the same process in humans.
		I do not know perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one case, though.
		That's one case.
		You're saying there are not many cases of human mutilation.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		When people say that they've heard of a body that had X, Y, and Z, that's what's called circumstantial removed sort of in the category of rumors.
		I am always, always struggling to get to the hardest fact I can, multiple eyewitnesses, hard medical, that's marked my career.
		I am in very difficult subjects, but I have always tried to bring to bear going to scientists, biophysicists, anybody that can bring to bear hard evidence.
		And so I'm speaking from those efforts.
		And to give you a sort of period on this sentence, Dr. John Altshuler, a hematologist and pathologist in Denver who worked with me for several years on documenting what we could find, pure science, medical science, on the excisions of mutilated animals.
		We got a call from a man in Missouri, and this would have been Back around 1989.
		And it was about the body of a nude man found around a lake in a forest.
		It was quite a removed rural area.
		And the story was that there were excisions from this man's body on the lake, similar to what happened in mutilated animals.
		Now, so we have a phone call reporting this.
		Dr. Alex Schuller said, as a director of hematology and pathology, I should be able to get a hold of the coroner in that county and explain the kind of research we're doing, and we can find hard medical facts about this body.
		He made the call, talked with the coroner, and the coroner told him, I've been told, ordered, that this is classified information and it's not to be discussed.
		Now, was it a mutilated body?
		That is the closest we ever came in all of the research I've done to the possibility of question mark on that.
		And then there is the Thomas Sease SEES case in Pennsylvania.
		That was in the middle 2000s, and that is the story that made a lot of, I think, national news about a wife reported that her husband was missing in rural, I think it was northwestern Pennsylvania.
		And police and all kinds of people were out, and I think it was a two-day search.
		And they had been around the house.
		There had been one person, a farmer, had called the local police and said that they had seen an object in the sky that put a pink, that was the unusual pink beam of light down to the ground in an area where the husband had told his wife that he wanted to go out in his Jeep to ride or go hunting or something.
		So they had that piece, but they hadn't found anything.
		And suddenly, 48 hours close to the house is the husband's body with only his undershorts on.
		He was nude.
		Nobody ever has provided photographs or an autopsy report or anything from the Thomas C. case.
		And about two years after, this strange mystery with just these little teeny pieces making it out to the local media there in Pennsylvania and my trying to find out and being told that the wife would not talk with anyone,
		two years later, a man called me and said that he either was working with the FBI or had worked with the FBI and he was investigating the Thomas Sease case and that he wanted to know if I had any of the hard original documents about the man having excisions from his body.
		It was the phone call that raised the question.
		And I asked him, I said, no, I have never, ever been able to get any details, hard data, hard medical evidence on the Thomas Sease case.
		Do you have other information?
		And he said that he had been investigating, had tried to talk to the wife, had never been able to, but that some people who knew her said that there had been unusual missing tissue on that man's body and that nobody understood why did it turn up near the house after two days of searching by police and law enforcement when it wasn't there.
		How did that happen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I'm sorry to do this, but I've got to take a break here.
		So hold tight.
		Linda Mullow is my guess.
unidentified		What a night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did JC find me?
		Anyway.
		This is Dark Matter.
unidentified		Dark Matter.
		In a golden cage on a winter's day in the rain in a golden cage alone.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh.
		On a morning boy, the drug chicken.
		From the area of 51.
		This is Dark Matter with Art Bell.
		To join the show, please call 1-855-REO UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed the area of 51.
		The winds are howling out there.
		This is the desert.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Linda Molten.
		Howe is my guest, and what a night it has been.
		So, what I draw from what you said, Linda, is that it may not be unheard of, but as a general rule, it's been animals, it's not been humans.
		And if it has been humans, it's been very, very isolated.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		I think a distinction is made.
		I do not think that the current Homo sapien sapien is the target.
		And while in the break, I found something I'd like to share with you and the audience.
		And that is, in August 2010, about three years ago, the British UEFO files were released.
		They've been doing this in pieces, and they said they finished a year or so ago.
		And this was one of the downloads from the UK National Archives.
		And this was a letter or series of letters in one of the downloads that was correspondence from a man who described himself as a physicist astronomer about his grandfather who had, quote, served as a personal bodyguard to the Prime Minister Winston Churchill.
		And the writer, the physicist astronomer, gives details about an alleged conversation of alarm between Prime Minister Churchill and American General Dwight Eisenhower concerning a dramatic UFO interaction around an RAF bomber returning from Germany and that what Prime Minister Churchill said to Eisenhower,
		according to this writer, perhaps reveals the seed of a policy of strict denial that was to be supported by both the UK and the U.S. for the past 70 years since World War II.
		And this is what he wrote, was the quote that his grandfather overheard Prime Minister Churchill say to General Eisenhower, quote, this event, the RAF being circled over and over by a disk in the sky and reported by the pilots,
		this event should be immediately classified since it would create mass panic amongst the general population and destroy one's belief in the church, close quote.
		What is missing from this letter are in between the lines, what else was Prime Minister Churchill made privy to in General Eisenhower that would support this sentence?
		It certainly wouldn't have simply been a disc running rings around an RAF bomber.
unidentified		Indeed, yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		So that is a piece of possibly true history that gives context for the fact that everything we've discussed tonight, our government and the British government and others have known about for a very long time and made a policy of denial that the world was never to know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to know in our lifetimes, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I actually think this has to break open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've been saying that for years and years, haven't we?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've wanted it to happen, but I think part of the sense that the boil is perhaps upon us, really.
		Yeah, relates to that something, it's like the San Andreas Fault.
		That leg keeps being jammed and jammed, and the pressure keeps building and building.
		And the earthquake relieves it.
		And we need the truth to relieve the concocted planet we're living on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think we're close to that?
		You really believe we're close.
		You believe that feeling of the boiling coming on is the information getting ready to break?
		And if it does, I just wonder how we're going to do, because you keep mentioning those chips that are going to fall.
		Boy, there's going to be some serious chips, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, how much worse could it get than all of the conflict in the Middle East and the radioactive damage in Japan and the fact that we are in a sort of a,
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to call it an unstable or unpredictable climate time and we're in the sixth mass extinction in which there are as many or more animals dying every day and year as there was in the last fifth and that we are at some sort of a turning point on this planet any way you cut it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe you.
		We're out of time, Linda.
		We are absolutely, just totally out of time.
		Even on Sirius XM, we have a lot of extra time to do things, but the show is over, and all I can say is we'll have you back and we'll do it again.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		God bless you, Ari.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, God bless you.
		Thank you for coming on.
		I really, really do appreciate it.
		It's been one hell of a night.
		Thank you, Linda, and good night.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's it, folks.
		I'm sorry.
		We do have a limit to what we can do, and this is it.
unidentified		This is a song that we wrote for a late-night talk show radio host, Art Bell.
		And we had a great time writing this one.
		Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		Tomorrow Journey Today's not alive.
		Filled with the long, searching for the truth.
		Will we make it to tomorrow?
		Will the sun shine?
		Midnight in the desert I will listen Ooh, I'll listen to you That's it, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotta go.
		It's been a wild, wild night.
		Boy, talk about JC being able to take a moment and just.
		I hope you all have a good weekend.
		And this, of course, is Crystal Gale singing the song.
		Good night, all.
unidentified		Good night, all.
		Midnight in the desert, the bands were storming the air.
		I've been looking for the answer.
		All my life I found you there.
		Is the world we live in quicker?
		Are we heating up the fight?
		Have we lost our intuition?
		Are we running out of time?
		High midnight in the dark.

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