Richard C. Hoagland, former NASA consultant and Dark Mission author, argues the 1967 Surveyor images reveal a shattered lunar dome of geometric glass—unexplained by natural forces—while NASA’s LADEE mission allegedly hides photographic cameras behind "weird horn-shaped" star trackers. He claims NASA suppresses evidence of ancient Martian ruins in Sidonia, including the "face," and cites whistleblower deaths like Michael Hastings as proof of a shadowy elite’s control. Hoagland links JFK’s 1963 moon proposal to his assassination, speculates about memory-altered astronauts (e.g., Edgar Mitchell), and ties Curiosity’s SAM methane discrepancies to deliberate data manipulation. His upcoming The Heritage of Mars promises genetic proof humans originated off-world, framing NASA’s secrecy as a calculated delay to preserve power. [Automatically generated summary]
Be it sight, sound, smell, touch, something inside that we need so much The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an arms deep in the ground The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst for
sun without burning a wing to lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, to have all these things in our memories home and they used them to come to find right right right past your soul
take this place all this strength just for me right take a free ride take my place half my seat it's for free I worked like a slave for years went so hard twister in my fears not too in my life before that but by now I know I should have
run wanna take a a ride from the high desert and the Wicked American Southwest, exclusively on serious X and Radio.
And I just finished work at 10 o'clock, and the notification was on, so I started listening to it, and I said, hey, that's the same voice as what I heard a few years ago.
The Pope, amazingly to me, this is a real wow, the Pope is warning that the Catholic Church's moral structure might fall like his words, house of cards, if it doesn't balance its divisive rules about abortion and gaze and contraception.
My goodness gracious, what kind of pope is this?
He's really going for change.
Now, I'm married to a Catholic, as you know, and these are indeed serious matters to so many Catholics, you know, certainly here in the U.S. That's really big news.
This pope is going to make big changes.
Okay, you can stop calling in Canada.
I see them all.
Okay, we've got it covered, apparently, but you'll be welcome to the show.
Mexico has trouble.
the horror there.
You know, storm after storm and now dirt and rock come tumbling down a hillside.
There's 97 dead.
They're really going through it in Mexico.
In Syria, they're moving around chemical weapons like a little shell game.
Meanwhile, al-Qaeda militants seized a town near the Turkish border on Thursday after expelling Western-backed rebels from the area, demonstrating the growing power of jihadis.
A great just absolutely great al-Qaeda militants take a town near the Turkish border.
Just perfect.
All right.
Blew away too much time.
Richard C. Hoagland is coming up in a moment.
My old friend, Richard.
Richard C. Hoagland is a former NASA consultant and former science advisor to Walter Cronkite and CBS News, all during the epic Apollo missions to the moon.
That must have been so cool.
He's author of two best-selling books on his 40 years of intensive research into the possibility of a former ancient solar system-wide high-tech civilization.
The Monuments of Mars, City on the Edge of Forever, and with Mike Barra, Dark Mission, The Secret History of NASA.
Hoagland is currently principal investigator of the not-for-profit space research and public policy organization, the Enterprise Mission.
It's been a long time.
Coming up in a moment, Richard C. Can You See It Now Hoagland.
So from space and 29,000 miles above your head, I'm Ardell, and this is Dark Matter.
unidentified
Leave me this way.
I can't survive.
I can't stay alive.
Without you.
I can't stay alive.
I can't stay alive.
I got a lot of those teardrops.
Heart and egg.
Teardrops.
All of the way.
It's XM, baby, and we're very serious.
To call Heart Bell, please manipulate your communication device and call 1-855-Wheel UFO.
This is an old-style Viticon TV camera, which is insensitive as hell.
You know, I don't know whether you ever were in a TV studio back then, but they were really, they were the best we had, and they were terrible compared to what we have now, CCDs and all that.
And the idea was to, after sunset on the moon, which has no air, no atmosphere, to look toward the horizon when the sun got like about one solar diameter below the horizon, which takes like an hour or so because the moon rotates really slowly, like, you know, once every 30 days.
So then they started taking pictures.
And what they noticed immediately on several of the surveyor missions, not all of them, because they landed at different places on the moon, but at many of them, was they had this incredible, what they called, beaded set of glows, horizon glow, along the western horizon.
And it was very bright and completely unexpected, should not have existed because in a vacuum, when you cut the sun off, it should be like, you know, cutting off with a sharp knife.
You know, one moment you're in daylight and the next moment you're in pitch darkness.
Because you're on the moon, the moon is smaller than the earth.
On the earth, the horizon is roughly 30 miles away.
If you're six foot high and the lunar camera was on surveyor at about a six foot elevation, human size.
And then above that brilliant beating was all this light.
Now, they had expected if they took time exposures, because these cameras actually could take a time exposure, and they could record stars down to about sixth magnitude, which is about the dimmest star that a human eye can see in a good dark place like a desert or on the ocean.
This is taken by Surveyor 6, 1st one, November of 67.
And my question, Richard, just to cut to the chase here, you're not trying to tell us that there's really a shattered lunar dome that we're looking at, are you?
Well, because you're on a place where there's no air.
If you ever had people and they were kind of like us, needed oxygen, needed pressure, and all that, you have to have something to contain the atmosphere.
And if you're inside the shadow dome, you're looking out.
The key thing is it's a wall of geometric glass.
Now, we've all had the experience of driving west at sunset or east at sunrise on a long trip with windshields full of bugs and scratches and dust and all that.
And you know you can barely see out of it because of a phenomenon known as scattering.
The sunlight bounces off every little imperfection on the glass, including scratches if there are any, and you can't see out because of the haze created by the bouncing sunlight, right?
Well, that's probably a hair in the enlarger when NASA did this picture.
This was scanned from a NASA print I got, an early generation print I got from the National Space Science Data Center at Goddard Space Flight Center outside Washington, D.C., years and years and years ago.
In fact, I probably got it before you and I even first met.
Please don't explain the definition of a dome to me again.
I understand that.
I guess what I'm really asking is, come on, dome, if it's a dome, and I acknowledge it looks like one with a hole in it, but if it's a dome, that means, A, we put it there, or the Russians put it there, or the extraterrestrials put it there.
That's a huge amount of time to have all kinds of things happen which the archaeological record would have no record of because it doesn't preserve stuff.
There's a TV show called Earth Without People, which I presume you've seen.
And they show how rapidly, how incredibly rapidly, like in a couple of centuries, everything we think of as amazing is gone.
And in a thousand years, it's dust underfoot, and you'd only find it by some kind of chemical assay or digging in the ground for stuff that was protected and buried.
The difference is on the moon, where there's no air, no oxygen, no rusting, no degradation, and the only erosion is from micrometeorites.
The other Possibility is it's genuine ETs, meaning someone from some other star system, or genuine aliens, because the definitions, you've got to really get your definitions down.
To me, an extraterrestrial is anybody who lives not on Earth.
Extraterrestrial.
Aliens are extraterrestrials who don't have our DNA.
So if you have human beings who live some other place than Earth, they're relatives, they're kin, they're ETs, but they're not aliens.
And from this data, remember, this is official NASA data.
All we did was to scan it into the computer from a print I got from one of my sources at Goddard years ago.
Paper trail, absolutely, unquestionably from NASA.
And when we scanned it and simply amped the contrast and the brightness, bingo, this amazing geometry pops out above the horizon, above there should be nothing at all.
NASA says, and it's actually in the caption, the brilliant beating along the horizon, they are attributing to electrostatically suspended dust a few inches above the lunar surface due to the electric fields between the daylight side and the nighttime on what's called the terminator, which moves westward at several miles per hour because of the slow rotation rate of the moon.
Lunar domes on the moon are not like the little tiny things at McMurdo Sound at the Antarctic, you know, a few hundred feet across.
These things, if they're real, and our data over the last few decades says they're there, are maybe hundreds of miles across.
In fact, one of the models is that the lunar maria, those dark patches on the side of the moon we can see from the earth, the so-called man of the moon, to those roughly circular dark areas.
Like the Surveyor 6 landed in the middle and called Sinus Medi, which is the dark spots right in the center of the moon when you look at the full moon.
By the way, I'm looking at the Gibbous moon rising over the Sandia Mountains here in New Mexico.
It's really gorgeous.
You know, nighttime in the desert, moon, moonlight.
Anyway, so if you've got a window, look out with a telescope and you'll see right in the middle of that brilliant circle, the moon, lit by the sun behind you, this dark little spot called Sinus Nedi, the middle bay in Latin.
And that whole bay may have been the dome.
Surveyor 6 landed fortuitously, or maybe NASA knew something, not too far from one of the edges of that dome.
You're seeing a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of a huge, ancient, shattered glass structure.
I've got to emphasize the shattered, because what you see there is not a uniform structure.
It's got all kinds of holes and ragged places, and it's been beaten to hell in a handbag.
Well, depending upon the rate of the turnover of the regolith on the moon, the basic lunar dirt, it would quickly meld into the background because you're looking straight down.
Remember, from the Earth, you're looking like down through the roof, through the top, the zenith.
The pieces on the ground would quickly be mangled and by meteors turned into the dirt and soil.
And so very quickly, relatively speaking in space, you know, a few thousand years, it would be indistinguishable.
Now, what's really interesting is that when the astronauts who landed years after, you know, two years after this photo was taken was the roughly the Apollo 11 mission.
And two years almost to the day after this picture was taken was the Apollo 12 mission with Alan Bean and Pete Conrad on Apollo 12, not far from where this thing is.
And they brought back rock samples, right?
The proportion of shattered glass in the lunar surface regolith is an extraordinary 20, 30, 40% by actual measurement in the lab here on Earth from the lunar samples.
Lunar glass occupied a huge fraction of the materials the astronauts brought back.
Now, it's been attributed to volcanic eruption somewhere in an ancient time, or more likely, meteor bombardment.
But the surface of the moon is basically like the surface of the Earth, the rocky surface.
We are literally tonight with an unmanned spacecraft.
No, well, we need to go with men and women, of course.
But even instruments, unmanned spacecraft, if it has the right instrumentation, can confirm this model.
And it just so happens, in honor of your return to the air, NASA a few days ago launched an unmanned mission called the LADDI mission, which stands for Lunar Atmosphere Dust Environment Explorer.
I want to believe it because we won't find out who did this until we land with men and women and we begin serious exploration, which I hoped was going to happen after the Bush initiative when the president announced back in 2004 we were going back to the moon.
And then a very funny thing happened, didn't it?
Those plans all went awry.
New president comes in.
Everybody's looking to see what Obama's going to do with NASA, with space exploration.
Is he going to do with Kennedy, et cetera?
And he cancels all of the Bush ideas and then sets us off on a journey that no one in NASA seems to think they can actually do in a reasonable timeframe, which is to go to some asteroid and completely ignore the moon with men and women for the foreseeable future.
We are trying to not only go to one, we're trying to go and capture one with a robotic probe, bring it back using solar-powered ion rockets to divector its trajectory around the sun into an orbit around the moon,
park it in a very long elliptical orbit around the moon, and then when the new NASA launch system, the space launch system launches toward the end of the decade, 2021, I think, make that a first visit by American astronauts in their new Orion space vehicle,
where they would basically go into lunar orbit, rendezvous with this 500-ton mini-asteroid that NASA had captured and placed in the orbit so it would be accessible, and then do all kinds of preparatory work for analyzing asteroids, building using asteroid materials, developing an industrial infrastructure using asteroid materials, all of that with the convenience of only having to go to and from the moon orbit, which is roughly three days away.
Remember, the photo number one is a print I scanned, and my detractors say, oh, you just, you know, didn't clean your scanner and all that crud is on your screen.
Stored in the National Archive, the NASA Archive, the National Space Science Data Center.
That's what the NSSDC stands for.
And when you click on the full image, because when you go to these thumbnails on the image page, you click on them again, and it takes you to the full.
You can duplicate this on a pool table in a dark room.
What you do is you get some plastic, you know, like those plastic egg cartons or plastic strips, and you basically glue them together in a jumble.
And you put them on the edge of the table.
You turn out the lights in the room.
You take a flashlight, which you were talking to your Canadian friend in the last segment about, and you put it below the edge of the table, and you shine it on the plastic creation.
When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school It's a wonder I can't think at all And my lack of education hasn't hurt enough I can read the writing on the wall Cold and
throw me in the air Cold and throw me in the air
You think that people would have had enough of a silly love song?
Don't look around me and I see it all.
Some people wanna fill the world with silly love songs.
And it's not current us of the Russians for a simple reason.
It's all in shattered ruins.
It's incredibly old.
Given that nothing happens on the moon except under very long time scales, basically micrometeorite erosion, that's it.
There's no earthquakes, there's no atmosphere, there's no hurricanes, no storms, no nothing except micrometeorite abrasion and big and small rocks occasionally falling from the sky.
All the shattered holes and disorganized stuff you see is because it's really been battered to hell.
So the hallmark of intelligence anywhere in the universe, this comes from my old friend Carl Sagan, who said when he wrote, what was, I guess, Cosmos, the first sign of intelligent life on Earth is in the geometric regularity of its constructions.
If you look at any planetary surface on any NASA image, either from the surface, from orbit, through the Hubble telescope, spacecraft going past any other place, even on other stars when we ever get there, which at this rate we're not going to, the only way you know if it's a dead civilization that they used to be there is by looking at their geometric constructions.
So when you see geometry, and the key thing here is these two pictures are separated by 30-some years, the two versions of the same shot.
And it's in an official NASA publication of the results of study of the surveyor data building toward this current unmanned mission, which is en route to the moon tonight, even as we speak.
All right, Richard, let's say what you're telling me.
All right, hold the data.
Let's say that what you're telling me becomes confirmed, that we send either a manned or unmanned mission to the moon, and we actually confirm that this was and what's left of it is a dome that was on the moon.
What effect do you think that would have on the world?
The implication is IA, either we're not alone, because if there's structures built by somebody not from Earth, right next door on the moon, it's a paradigm.
For one thing, if it's aliens, it means the human race as a species that evolved on this planet is not alone in the Milky Way galaxy, let alone the billions of galaxies you can see on those Hubble Deep Field photographs.
And that means where's company out there?
If there's company out there, it means they obviously were able to travel.
Because again, the model we're discussing is aliens came to the solar system, picked the moon to build amazing things on, left for some reason, died, became extinct.
So it is your position, Richard, that because they released them so quickly, they didn't have time to change them and eliminate any possible reference to something artificial that was there.
All the honest guys in NASA had no idea this stuff was there.
So the early, remember in history, it's always the earliest stuff that you can trust.
And the later stuff, the folks who want to change things or make history go away or erase, you know, they have time to do their dirty work.
What NASA did is they produced these films with two companies, one in Virginia and one in Houston.
And they got them out within days of the landing when the astronauts had come back.
And then they sent them all over the world.
So there are hard copy film prints in little canisters with this name on it, Pinpoint for Science, the history of the Apollo 12 mission, half an hour, all over the planet, in India, in Russia, in Japan, in Brazil, in Argentina, in Dubuque, Iowa.
There's a zillion copies of this film out there that has absolute parallel data showing glass structures similar, if not identical, to the geometry seen on the surveyor shots taken two years after surveyor.
And what we've done is we've suppressed the light on the lunar surface, which is already overexposed, and we brightened up the vacuum black lunar sky above the horizon to bring up the faint scattering of light from the ragged fragments of this shattered dome.
actually a small, tiny piece of it.
You're not seeing, you're just Like if you were, well, think of a huge structure like the superdome, and you're standing two feet away from the wall.
That's what you're seeing.
You're seeing a tiny portion of a much more vast structure, which under one-sixth lunar gravity could rise miles into the sky.
And what it shows is the 800-pound unmanned LADDEE robotic spacecraft, which is headed toward the moon tonight.
It's going to take them about 30 days in these wandering orbits.
They're very low energy to get there, even though you can go there in three days.
They've chosen, because of the rocket system they used, a very elaborate way of saving energy so they can put as much payload in their spacecraft as possible.
And this is the spacecraft that could, if we keep NASA honest, tell us if we're looking at ancient glass domes or we're looking at just some natural phenomenon that has never been encountered before in space and it's just so much everybody.
I would like, trust me, I would like nothing more in the world than for you to be right and for them to take the images and here comes a clear image of a dome.
But you, I just know that you're going to say, if there's any dome in the picture, they're going to eliminate it before we ever see it.
My political assessment now is that there are so many people in NASA who are desperate to leak the real stuff out.
And when we get into our Mars Curiosity part of the evening, you're going to see some far more amazing things that are obvious in every photograph that they're releasing.
Wouldn't you think by now, Richard, if NASA had been doctoring photographs, that a lot of people would have come forward and wanting nothing to do with hiding a gigantic truth of that magnitude from the world?
The people I just talked about, who would be so upset about hiding a truth of this magnitude from the world that they would get the real thing out and say, here you go.
If the evidence that if Snowden hadn't carefully, carefully stashed away on all those thumb drives these documents, these papers, would anybody be paying attention to a guy named Snowden?
If he just came out and said there's this stuff going on in the world.
No, and I'm saying if there was a Snowden within NASA, he'd pack away on microfilm or whatever he had to pack it away in, the real photographs and get them to us.
Well, there's evidence that back, way back when, 30-some years ago, when NASA was preparing some of these films, if you know how film is prepared, you know, where you basically splice different segments together and you had to physically splice it, you had to make what's called internegatives and all that.
Which was this gadget that you used to spool film through?
Well, this was a step up above because it had what was called a floating point stage or film gate, which means you could look at film and not put scratches on it.
So you could run it back and forth and you could edit it and chop it into pieces and splice it together, but you wouldn't put scratches, which is the bane of all film editors.
Yeah, we've also got electronic guys at the NSA who are snooping on everybody doing everything.
And if you don't think everybody who has access to data like this has server numbers to where anybody logging on for access is logged, anybody sticking a thumb drive in, I mean, we're not just talking now about millions of pages of text.
We're talking about a relatively small number of images that are in electronic trackable form.
So anybody trying to do a Snowden on us would get caught.
Well, look, I've said this on the air before, both with you and many other people.
We have a space situation where you have one agency which controls the spacecraft, controls the rockets, controls the launch pads, controls the downlink facilities, the big radio antennas, controls the instruments, controls the scientists, controls the public relations.
They own the system end to end to end.
There's no independent way you and I can go to the moon tonight, take a picture, and come back and say, gee, look at that.
And if there are, if the politics are still where we're not supposed to know any of the stuff is out there, I would bet you dollars to Navy beans that when the first private lunar mission leaves, unless it is sanctioned by the powers that be, it will have a mysterious, sad accident.
And it will be attributed to, oh, they're just a bunch of amateurs.
Okay, if this gorgeous spacecraft that I'm looking at goes and takes pictures of the dome area and they're good and they're clear and they're high res and you get them back and there's no hint of a dome or even dome pieces there and it hasn't been messed with, will you be satisfied that there's not a dome there?
And I've documented this, and let me go through the story, and then you can pick it apart if you want.
This spacecraft, when you go to the official websites, either the European Space Agency or the NASA Space Agency websites, and you type in Google LADDEE, L-A-D-E-E mission, you'll get a whole bunch of links.
When you look through the instruments, there's only three instruments on this 800-pound spacecraft.
There's what's called a UVS telescope, ultraviolet visual telescope, designed to look at spectra and at photometry, which is how brightness levels change on a squiggly graph.
That's the huge sociological things in this culture, which we have time to get into later in the evening.
They have been publishing official images from Mars from Curiosity, and we'll get to that in a couple of minutes, of artifacts all over the Martian surface of Gale Crater.
And because they don't hold a press conference and say that's an artificial piece of junk left by some prior civilization, nobody looking at the picture wants to say what it is except us.
And who's going to believe us?
Because we're not official.
We have a culture where unless the president comes out and tells everybody what reality is, nobody independently wants to make a judgment.
And I want to tell you, I guess I'd better not say anything else.
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So, I'm contemplating domes on the moon.
And you should be too.
I mean, if there is a chance that there is a dome on the moon, that means one of three incredible things.
Wouldn't that be something?
Somebody else built it?
unidentified
Or even if it was us a long time ago, don't think it was Russians.
There's been Umptine spacecraft that has taken images of it.
Do you know that for a place that NASA claims it has no scientific interest in, the Sidonia region of Mars where the face is, is the most photographed region on Mars of any place on Mars in the last 30 years?
Where I start company is when they tell the public, nothing bears, move along, move along, and privately, they're interested up to their eyeballs in what I've been proposing for the last couple decades.
Because if the data says they're taking information from spacecraft again and again and again in one region, and yet they're telling the Congress and they're telling the public there's nothing there, move along, move along, that is the height of scientific hypocrisy to say nothing of the attacks they've made against me and a lot of other people who've looked at this now.
Well, when you say ladder pictures, you kind of have to pick which pictures, because if you look at the NASA picture, Yeah, the NASA pictures, when you get the so-called best images, it really doesn't look like it did in the Viking shots.
But when you look at the images coming from the Mars Express mission, from the European Space Agency, you see all kinds of exquisite detail that for some reason you don't see on the NASA images.
And that's kind of impossible because they're supposed to be photographing the same thing on the same Martian desert, right?
You know, when you try to crawl into people's headspace, into their minds, particularly separated by the present by millions of years, and you may not even be dealing with the same species, because remember, we don't have any ground truth.
We don't have access to the libraries.
We don't have a signature.
We don't know who did it.
All we know is something interesting was done.
And what we need is a human mission to go there, find the libraries, and find out who did it and where they came from and if they were related to us.
Now, we've got some models, some scenarios, some educated guesses, some speculations based on the science.
Yeah, at the moment, because we don't have the ground truth.
It'd be really cool to have a human mission to Mars in our lifetime where astronauts, multinational, of course, walk in the front door, set up TV cameras, send a live transmission, and say, good God, look at that.
I'm just saying, Richard, there are people that have looked at these images back from the phase on Mars to the present, and they are seeing what you see.
And Sidonia is an absolutely fascinating place.
And I can imagine that, you know, NASA thought, yeah, well, maybe.
And you can look at the missions and the amount of time they've spent taking pictures, high-resolution pictures at trigonometry, different sun angles, even in color, of this one little region.
And remember, Mars is a geologically interesting place.
It has as much land area as all of Earth's continents combined, even though Mars is half the size of Earth because there are no current oceans.
The in-crowd and the out-crowd are totally separate.
We, and I'm talking now about everybody listening to my voice, including you, Art, we don't count from these people's perspectives.
There are two separate civilizations almost going on.
There's the in-crowd, which we can call euphemistically the 1% or the 100th of 1%, and then there's all the rest of us.
And history in the last 20 years has proven that we don't count.
Look around at all the mainstream news and all the things that we used to talk about that were spooky or conspiratorial or, oh, there's no way that could be true.
Every worst nightmare that you and I and all your other guests have ever discussed has come true, has it not?
The worst case scenario is worse than anybody could have imagined up to and including Edward Snowden.
I think that if the current spying being done on the American people was done in 1950, let's say 1950, Richard, and the American people became aware that all of their phone calls were being listened to or monitored and all of their emails, if they had email or mail or whatever.
In a nation with a lot of people carrying guns, there would have been a real revolution.
Now people just seem to roll over and accept it as, oh, that's just the cost of doing business.
So I'm on Facebook and I'm on Google and everybody's monitoring what I'm doing.
Well, they're doing it for business purposes.
They want to sell me something.
We have become so passive at the idea that we are being treated like chattel, like slaves, and there's a few people who have access to the good stuff.
And by good stuff, I mean, you asked me before the question, what does this mean, if I'm right, if there's an ancient civilization on the moon and Mars?
Yes.
It changes everything because it gives us the tools so that 7 billion human beings technologically can live off the earth without destroying the earth.
They can all have incomes.
They can all have jobs.
They can all have a life.
They can all have families.
They don't have to go to war with each other and shoot each other because of something stupid like oil.
It totally changes the equation of the has versus the have-nots.
And that's why this information has been locked up, Art.
If they didn't want us to know about what was on Mars, and they didn't want us to know what was on the moon, and there was something of intense interest there, they have the power for us not to know.
Unless there's a break inside, unless the politics of cover-up, a la Brookings, which is a nice excuse, have changed, we won't know from this current mission.
And unfortunately, there's indications they're planning to really try to sneak in a little and past us.
Let me tell you how.
When one of my Readers on Enterprise saw that I was going to be on your show.
He sent me an email the other night and he said, What are those two weird things on the top of the LADDEE spacecraft?
And I went and looked and I didn't see anything unusual.
And so we got into this dialogue and I actually started doing some homework and digging and digging.
And finally, I found an obscure engineering thing out of NASA that said they were what are called star trackers.
Now, star trackers are important because you need to maintain the attitude of a spacecraft in space so you can give the inertial measuring units, the gyroscopes inside their spinning, basic updates so that you know where the thing is pointing.
If you don't know where it's pointing, you can't point the instruments, you can't get data, et cetera, et cetera.
So star trackers have been on every single unmanned spacecraft we ever launched.
As the technology has gotten more sophisticated, they basically evolved from little slit scan thingies where you basically are looking through two razor blades butted up against each other and the star has to fall right between them so there's a little sliver of light and that's how you know you're pointed at the star.
They've evolved into CCD cameras.
When the Clementine mission went back in the early 90s, 92, it was a DOD mission, they had these Star Treker cameras that frankly were a damn sight better than the best NASA cameras like on Surveyor because they were built on state-of-the-art CCD technology and not using old Vidicon tubes, TV tubes.
Those pictures of the moon showed an extended glow around the moon like you were looking at the combined scattered light of a lot of lunar domes shattered, made of glass, and scattering light that shouldn't be there.
And then when the astronauts, and I'm going to back up a bit, I want to ask a question about the astronauts right now, and that is, if what you're saying is true, and there are many domes and or buildings, very tall buildings, you've talked about those before, glass buildings, right?
They have been subjected to a sophisticated technology that has replaced their real memories of what they saw and what they did with fake memories.
And the key entry point of that theory is the conversation you and I had with Ed Mitchell over a decade ago, where Ed on air live and in his book, The Way of the Explorer, confounds his own perception of his experience by saying, I can't remember what it felt like to do what I did on the moon.
In chapter two of Dark Mission, which Mike and I spent a lot of time researching heavily, I was so intrigued with the Mitchell anomaly because, look, it's got to be the high point of your entire existence to be one of the first frigging people to walk on another planet, right?
When I met him, because I palled around with him early on when we were still going to the moon with a later lunar mission.
Remember, I was a Cronkite sky, so I had access to all the astronauts and all the other people.
God, if I knew then what I know now, the questions I could have asked.
Anyway, Mitchell at that time was freely acknowledging that he had real problems because he couldn't remember what it felt like, the emotion.
And because he's a smart guy, it bothered him.
It bothered him so much that he actually booked therapy sessions with a well-known hypnotherapist.
I won't mention any names, but I have, because I know the people involved, because I was really focused on this in the later years, when he went to those sessions, the thing he wanted to do is to somehow find out why he couldn't remember the emotions of what he did.
He could remember the mission timeline, what rocks they picked up, the tools they used.
If we get to the therapist, who's a well-known household name?
If I told you the name, you'd go, oh, that person.
And they're in their first session, and this person is trying hypnotic regression to eliminate all the fuzzy stuff and get him to calm and to focus.
And he gets to the point and he says, that's not important.
I don't need to know that.
And he absolutely resists the hypnotic regression.
They can't break through the block.
He had some psychological inhibition against remembering his real experience, and it has bedeviled the bejesus out of him for 40 years.
As it has with all the other astronauts, when I was researching for Dark Mission, I found to my amazement and sadness, because when you think of national heroes being tampered with to this degree, it goes back to what I said a few minutes ago,
how the 1.01% doesn't give a damn about the rest of us, including national heroes Who are their slaves to do their bidding and put out their political spin, but not to be valued as individual human beings under the Constitution?
Each one of them has a way of working around this problem that none of them can remember what it felt like.
Now, we're going to talk about Brookings for a minute, okay?
Okay.
Because there really has to be a reason.
Now, Brookings, of course, suggested that if the world was given information that there were others, there are others, that it would deeply impact so many of our institutions, and chiefly among them would be religion.
It would deeply impact religion.
Now, there's arguments against that, and I know there's a million people come out and say, oh, it wouldn't bother me.
Wouldn't bother me.
And that's fine.
Maybe it wouldn't bother you, but it would bother a lot of people, and that's what you have to understand.
Now, there represents a reason for not telling us.
Maybe it's not a good reason anymore, but it's a reason.
And when you start talking about hiding all of this, Richard, you damn well better have a reason why the American government and other governments would hide these things.
No one seems to understand that the way you get to the bottom of this is you have two very civilized people talk about real stuff without being personal.
And I love it when you challenge because it means you're listening to the answers.
Well, look, if we're doing multiple choice, remember your conversation with Greer?
You know, why don't they want us to know about UFOs and all that?
And you went down a list of all the reasons.
Ultimately, it seems to me it comes down to control.
This planet has a history of control.
Even under the aegis of democracy, ultimately, we don't have a pure democracy.
And if you look at Washington now, with the stunning exception of the latest refusal by the American people to stampede into another stupid Middle East war and the Congress to actually listen, as well as the president, we haven't had many examples of where the people's will was actually exercised for decades, right?
And since I agree with that, hold on, Richard, we're going to do a quick break here.
We do have them.
Again, it's got to be a matter of trust.
And plus, I want you to go to the Seacrane website.
The Sentinel Ally.
This is the coolest thing you've ever seen.
I'm telling you.
Trust me, I've taken this ally and the Sentinel Ally and shown my friends.
Every single one of them said, I have to have it.
And that includes my wife.
We went to see Bob in Sue Crane, and Bob demonstrated the Sentinel.
It wasn't out yet, you know, just getting started.
And my wife saw it, and my wife started jumping up and down wanting one, and of course he gave it to her.
What it is, is a nine-inch, that's all I had said more.
It's only nine-inch.
It's a portable stereo oval cylinder speaker that you can carry anywhere you go.
It's very lightweight, fits into a giant pant pocket, actually, backpack or even a briefcase.
Has excellent audio and delivers crisp, full stereo sound that's totally out of this world.
The Sentinel gets together with anything you've got by Bluetooth, you know, just like that.
It's got a USB thumb drive, if you want, an SD card, eighth inch patch cord.
And listen, with the Ally, you can stream audio via Bluetooth from your phone, tablet, laptop, satellite radio, da-da, or any other Bluetooth-enabled device.
And it comes out sounding like you're in a concert hall.
It's got rechargeable batteries.
It'll play for up to 10 hours.
How's that?
10 hours on rechargeables.
It's good for barbecues out at the beach, trips to the lake.
You can leave it on your kitchen counter.
And what's on that little cell phone sounds like an orchestra.
Trust me, call them now, 800-522-8863.
That's 800-522-8863.
Operators are sitting around right now waiting for you to call.
And by the way, after you get the sentencing, try it, you call me on the air and tell everybody how it sounds.
Jerry says, the bit Richard was just talking about the astronauts having had their minds blocked.
You know, I thought for years that this was done when they were quarantined after they returned from the moon.
Perfect time to do it.
You know, I've got to admit that there's probably something to this.
I don't know that they've had their minds blocked, but something is absolutely wrong with their reactions when they're asked about how they felt to walk on the moon, to be a man walking on the moon.
This would not be something you would forget.
You wouldn't forget your feelings and your emotions, and it would be, I don't know, a high point in your life, and you just sure as hell wouldn't forget.
Well, I've always thought, you know, when I say always, I mean, you know, you and I have an, it's like Rip Van Winkle.
You know, I was listening to you the other night, and it was like I had woken up from a 10 years sleep, and there was art, and there were guests, and there were good conversation, and it's like you're in the groove.
You are really in the groove, and I love talking with you.
I don't know why people think I'm angry.
I'm passionate because I'm tired of being lied to.
American people were so tired, so sick to death of endless, endless war, they said in the last couple of weeks, no.
And the most amazing thing is the system listened.
This is unheard of, and I think this is going to progress.
Now, if this is part of something new, which is bubbling under the body politic, this mission to the moon could be finally the vindication of all the things that will change the world for the better if this data comes out and people realize, oh my God, not only are we not alone, but it was us at one time.
We did astonishing, amazing things.
There's amazing stuff left there, which if brought back to Earth, could be turned on and could give everybody a human life, regardless of the fact that there's 7 billion people destroying the planet tonight.
I mean, this is a game changer in every sense of the word, which is why it's important to argue and to debate and to discuss data and to have a vigorous conversation at an international space satellite level reaching multiple continents, because this is not just about Americans or high Canadians.
It's about everybody.
This changes everything.
And this unmanned mission, if the good guys can sneak one past the bad guys, if they've set this up correctly to where that spacecraft in three weeks goes into orbit and they begin to take data and they confirm what I've been showing in these pictures, and it's just the tip of the peruvial iceberg.
That's why it's the only safe route to introduce people to the idea of an inhabited universe is to find ruins when there's nobody home.
And it's proactive.
We go there.
It's like archaeology.
Are we threatened by the Sumerians?
Are we threatened by the Assyrians?
Are we threatened by the Mayans?
No.
Why?
Because they've been dead and gone a long, long time.
Well, whoever left the stuff on the moon and Mars had been dead and gone a long, long time.
But the difference is, unlike these pre-technological ruins that we've investigated, the goodies, the spoils, the incredible, wondrous, magical physics and technologies and breakthroughs available from a high-tech civilization and ruins, all you got to do is find a library.
And the library will be in the form that we can probably translate with computers and chips and the full state-of-the-art we now have.
And on the moon, it's going to be duck soup because nothing has happened on the moon for millions and millions and millions of years.
And certainly, if you get down deep enough underground, nothing has disturbed it.
So yeah, a human expedition that goes and looks for the libraries will eventually find them.
And of course, to short circuit this around, my feeling is that Kennedy's real reason for sending our guys to the moon was to find the archives and bring it back and put it to benefit for all mankind.
And that's why they killed him.
And the data I have that supports that is that 12 days after he agreed to go there with Khrushchev, they bumped him off, and then they put Khrushchev under house arrest, and he died, a broken man, sitting on a rocker on his porch when the world went nuts into a huge spiral of new weapons development.
In Sorensen's book called Counselor, he describes how from the day JFK walked into the Oval Office, he would give Sorensen an envelope with a letter for Khrushchev, separate from state, separate from the DOD, really separate from the CIA.
Ted would walk down into the middle of Washington, D.C., down Pennsylvania Avenue.
He'd stand on a corner, and a guy from the KGB would come up to him with a folded copy of the Washington Post.
Lyndon Johnson and the chief of, I forget who the congressman was in the House, introduced legislation forbidding the United States from cooperating with the Soviet Union in going to the moon.
If this is proven true, if it somehow, in any way, ends up suggesting to the world that the source Of life on earth is other than as written in the good book we've got problems.
And he would refuse to acknowledge the existence of the information.
My feeling for decades, and I think this is what Brookings was saying, is that those people will wrap themselves in a bubble inside an enigma, inside a freezer, and they will totally be unsazed by this because their life continues regardless of the facts of science that would intrude on their view of the universe.
What would really happen is that the smart people on the planet would seize the opportunity to break out of the prison and the shackles we're currently in.
They would take these technologies, put them to use to free people from being demeaning slaves and become rulers of their own destiny.
They would stop despoiling the earth, contaminating the planet, ruining the net.
Or Genesis gets reinterpreted, and my feeling is those who are fundamentally religious will continue to believe what they want to believe, data notwithstanding, and the rest of us can move on to create a real civilization on this planet.
But remember, a few minutes ago I talked about the report from Iron Mountain, which was commissioned under Kennedy as an alternative to what he foresaw as a perpetual state of war on planet Earth.
And he tasked certain people, and there's huge controversy over was the study that came out real?
Was it satire?
You know, the way you dismiss real stuff is you make fun of it, then nobody believes it.
Given all the things that report from Iron Mountain, which Robin has done numerous shows on, with extraordinary reception by our audience, because they're dumbfounded, that all of the things forecast in that report, which was published in the early 60s,
have come true, including the idea of the need to perpetuate perpetual war on earth to maintain control in the absence of peace that would create such uncertainties and such depression in the economy that civilization itself would crumble.
unidentified
Sounds awfully, awfully lot like the fear porn of Brookings.
One of their possibilities that they offered as an alternative to endless war, a la Orwell, was a huge space program that would basically have the budget of the Pentagon.
I mean, look, NASA spends, I'm going to use round numbers now, about $16 billion a year.
The Pentagon is up in the hundreds of billions a year.
What the report from Iron Mountain said was, well, one way to move from a war economy, which has all kinds of ancillary benefits, you know, we lose a few thousand people here and there in some wars, but frankly, society is so big, it needs the economy, it needs the technological development, it needs all the stimulus.
We can live with that.
The only alternative they propose that might counter that would be a super big Pentagon-sized budget space program.
This was formulated before NASA's first missions into the solar system and to the moon.
Now, of course, if the objective of the controllers is control, you can't possibly have a big unlimited space program because, my God, you can't control it.
They'll find out what's really out there.
They'll find out their real history.
They'll find out all the incredible technologies that make oil and all the other control mechanisms obsolete.
So being in the middle of this attrition, it's my view, Richard, that a NASA guy or gal would say, oh, my God, if, you know, our agency is going to hell in a handbasket.
If we can get information out to the public and the world like this, we're going to get all the money that's going into those bombs and Cruise missiles, and we're going to be able to go to Mars.
We're going to be able to go to the moon and well beyond because we've proven there's a reason to do it, and so they'd want to release the information.
It doesn't have to be the right people, or in this case, the wrong people, at the wrong place at the wrong time, up to and including some astronauts.
Like Pete Conrad years ago, he was the commander of Apollo 12 that took the pictures.
Picture number three corroborates the geometry taken by Surveyor.
A few years ago, Pete Conrad, who was very much into space industrialization, he was one of those guys who couldn't figure out why we hadn't aggressively taken advantage of all the amazing resources in space, created a space-bound civilization to do some of the economic things that we've been talking about tonight.
Pete is about to speak at a major space conference in Houston, and Conrad loved to ride his motorbike, you know, big chopper.
I think it may even have been a Harley.
He's out with some friends.
He takes a curve a little too fast.
He skids and he falls over on the road.
He gets up and his friends say, you know, that was a pretty bad spill.
You should go to the hospital.
And he's fine.
He's got some scrapes and nothing is wrong with him.
I can keep going because it's the truth and we need to look it right in the face.
And that answers the question, why don't we have whistleblowers who simply cheerfully talk about what's really on the moon and Mars?
Now, what I think they're doing on this mission to the moon, I think they've set this up either for the most amazing revelation that will be unstoppable, or they've set themselves up to really check this out so they can make the decision if they're going to release something.
After all the missions there have been to Mars and the moon, manned and unmanned, why do you think they would pick this mission to you're going to love this answer?
Back when he was just a twinkle in the eye of the pollsters, when he was at 20% in the polls in 2007, I predicted he was going to win the presidency.
And I was so certain based on my data, I made a bet with George.
And my bet with George was that if I won, meaning the president was elected, I would get to host Coast all by myself, pick my own guests, do an entire four-hour show on whatever I chose.
And I've got that in the bank.
I have not played that card because it hasn't been time.
Yeah, the reason I wanted this up there is because given the implications of this mission, I thought it was very bizarre that out of all the NASA missions that I have covered over decades, I mean, I've been at the Cape for launches, I've been at the pads, I've seen where the cameras are.
Do you know that Florida is a swamp?
Do you know what swamps have in them overwhelmingly in abundance?
So, you know, Hoagland, with his conspiratorial turn of mind when it comes to NASA, that knows that they are into symbolism and ritual and secret messaging and all that.
If all that you've talked about tonight and all your religious implications and all the extraordinary rent of civilization that you believe would happen if we were to confirm this information that we're not alone and we build all this stuff.
It's in the gigahertz range, but it's basically radio.
Radio is limited when you want to really send a lot of information down a pipeline to Earth, especially across millions and millions and millions of miles.
So, for, you've got to stop reading my mind, Mr. Bell.
So, it has been discussed for literally since Surveyor.
They did a laser experiment 40 years ago, 40-some years ago, on Surveyor, where they shone laser beams up at the Surveyor spacecraft, and they used the TV cameras to actually see the little tiny spot beams on the night side of the Earth as a prelude to someday using laser communication.
Now, why would lasers be a really big step forward?
Because, as everybody now knows, watch any commercials, because all of our telephone calls, even this phone call, is sent at some point via laser through fiber optics.
They can hold billions and billions of telephone calls on a laser beam, or you can send zillions of photographs, high-definition, 3D holograms, you name it.
You've got the bandwidth using lasers that you don't have.
But we don't know about lasers here in New Mexico.
Anyway, so on of all missions, what do they put this super-duper expensive, complicated, and really snazzy laser communication system on of all the missions we've ever sent anywhere in the solar system for the last 50 years?
This mission.
Now, in honest truth, the three instruments that they're going to be publicly using to take data on lunar dust and the atmosphere basically have minuscule bandwidth requirements.
It doesn't take a lot of bandwidth to send bar graphs or squiggly lines.
So they've got a super communication system which could send, you know, the Library of Congress in an hour, and they've got nothing to put on that end.
Except, this goes back to my friend who emailed me a few days ago, they've got these two weird horn-shaped things on the top of the spacecraft, which I finally tracked down.
And the engineering guys say those are what are called star tracker cameras.
You can do that anywhere between here and the moon.
You don't have to be in lunar orbit to look at the sun and see if the damn thing is working.
The same with the UVS spectrometer and the same with the particle detector.
They're going to spend a month in high lunar orbit checking out the instruments before they lower the orbit to where they actually begin to officially do science.
And I think that month is a license to find out all kinds of cool things and then decide whether you're going to tell anybody.
They did the same thing when Malin sent the first camera to Mars on Mars Surveyor.
They had a block of period called Checkout, and an academic of Stan McDaniel at Sonoma State University wrote a scathing indictment of the fact that their reasoning made zero logical sense from a scientific perspective, from a mission perspective, from an economic perspective, from an operations perspective.
And he basically said, these guys are going to use this time to photograph Sidonia secretly and decide what's there and if they're going to tell anybody.
Because the press doesn't care about checkout.
They only get interested vaguely when the actual mission is supposed to begin.
So if you want to do something in public but in secret, you simply say, oh, we're going to just be doing engineering checkouts, and no one in Washington is going to give a damn.
And it's got all kinds of really cool instrumentation.
Everything you ever wanted to know about Mars environment or Mars atmosphere or surface composition or the ruins of an ancient civilization, this robot can tell us.
And what it's been doing for the last year, since August 6, 2020.
That's what I said, which are the lowest area of the crater it could reach in the last year.
It's going to go to the mountain in the next year.
But they sent it to the lowest place because that's, of course, as you're going to see when you read part one and part two of my Curiosity expose on EnterpriseMission.com called It Only Takes One White Crow.
If we're proposing that there's an Ichi civilization all over the solar system that's left zillions and zillions of things in various states of ruin, all we got to do is find one.
Do you know the Voyagers are nuclear-powered, and the Voyager 1 just penetrated into interstellar space the last year or so, and it's been 30-some years en route?
Do you know what the projections for the lifetime of the power supply in Curiosity could be if they can keep the thing just going?
because there's nothing like that on the spacecraft.
And it didn't, the sky crane, when it left, Thing zaps into Mars' atmosphere at 13,000 miles an hour.
It takes seven screening minutes to go from the stratosphere all the way to the surface.
The last few thousand feet is lowered on a device called a Skycrane, which basically was a rocket-powered helicopter kind of craft with boards set to rockets.
As it's hovering on the rockets, like an old 1950s sci-fi movie, it lowers Curiosity on nylon ropes to the surface.
The computer then senses the lack of weight when the wheels touch the ground.
The Skycrane cuts with squibs the nylon ropes, and the Skycrane dashes off into the atmosphere and lands a couple of miles away over the hill.
And I'll remember: there's an old engineering axiom: form follows function.
If you have to build a device to pump fluids, be it on Mars, on the Moon, on Alpha Centauri, wherever, it's got to kind of look very similar to anything you'd build on Earth because it's got to have a way to pump fluids, and fluids have a certain Reynolds number and a certain pressure and a certain flow rate and all that.
So a device to pump fluids will kind of look like a device to pump fluids, regardless of the culture.
I've been spending months trying to write part two of the One White Crow series because I've got too many examples and I'm trying to distill the best context.
Well, for one thing, what are the odds that previous missions will be able to land on a planet with a surface area equivalent to all the continents on Earth within a couple hundred feet of the one that came after?
No, look, the way I like to do things is you build slowly.
Building a case is like a lawyer.
You have to lay foundation.
You have to get people used to the idea.
And a lot of our audience has never heard any of this stuff.
And they're obviously thinking you've got this lunatic who thinks, even though I work for NASA and Cronkite, that there's stuff out there and people out there and all this.
And of course, we know that's not true.
Well, it only takes one white crow to change the paradigm.
And I've given you now three objects, two out of three you really can't explain as rocks.
Well, everybody's been talking, you know, Stephen Bassett's disclosure, the D-word.
I have been seeing so many trend curves pointing us in the direction of the ultimate disclosure that we're so close now.
If you look at these as political trend curves, I would say we're within a couple of years, maybe, maybe sooner, than this stuff is officially acknowledged in some way which is non-threatening.
That's why I think the laser system on LADDEE and the secret cameras is, I mean, you really nailed it on it.
They want to look before they leap.
unidentified
They have to.
Can I follow up with another question?
Am I the only one that, when I read the book of Genesis, saw it right there in black and white, they're pretty much admitting it when God says, we will make man in our likeness.
Well, you've got to look at all the missions we've sent, the orbital missions, the landed missions.
There's stuff on every mission that's all over Mars.
Just thinking of Mars as one place.
When you look at all the NASA spacecraft over the last 30, 40 years, which includes, you know, the mission to Mercury, Messenger, the mission to Saturn, Cassini, the Galileo missions to Jupiter, the mission like Voyager to the outer planets, Uranus and Neptune, there's artificial stuff that I can build the case for all over the solar system.
In which case, we're talking about living.
Do you remember that movie art that Catherine Hepburn started in called Love Among the Ruins?
When I finally get to do the book on all this, which is going to be called The Heritage of Mars, Remembering Forever, I have some stunning genetic data to put in to corroborate with mainstream papers,
which to me, and probably to any objective observer, we're going to find out, proves that the human race, certainly one faction of us, originally lived on Mars.
But our evidence is not having to do with the junk DNA.
It has to do with something even more interesting that proves a fraction of the current human, and this is mainstream studies.
And the folks doing the studies, which have gone back to the 50s, they didn't know what they got.
So again, they just published it, not knowing they should have kept it secret.
And the cover-up crowd, who are actually not very smart, you know, they're basically operating on some kind of manual.
You know, they let lots of stuff through either by design, the long education process that Brooking called for, where you turn up the water slowly on our poor little frog, or it's because they simply don't know what to keep secret because they don't know any more than we do, and they don't know the key things that will allow someone to put the puzzle together and make a big picture.
Well, either that or you've really annoyed them, Richard, and they're trying to drive you completely insane.
You're on there with Richard C. Holland on Dark Matter.
Hello.
unidentified
Hello, Art.
Super Mega Roswell to you folks.
Thank you.
Hey, I've got two quick questions for one for Art and one for Richard.
Art, the other night I was listening to Dr. Greer, and he was talking about all the data that nobody has access to, such as presidents, congressmen, leaders.
We may not actually know the names because I always tend to think that everybody who blames the Illuminati and the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers, look, this suppression, this control is at such a high level that you don't even know the names of the groups that they're part of.
Everything else is kind of diversion out front, like those annual meetings of the Bilderbergers.
That's not where this really originates.
So, yes, I think you have secret societies.
I think one of them traces itself all the way back to ancient Egypt called the Shem Tsuhor, or the followers of Horus.
And their task, when you actually read the ancient Egyptian, their task is to preserve the fragments of the first time and to restore civilization from before a catastrophe.
The probe you're talking about is a Mars observer.
They were putting it into orbit and they suddenly lost communication.
And of course, I was on CNN with a press conference that very afternoon, and I said on the record that this is the way you take the mission black.
And with the sophistication of computers, even back in the early 90s, what used to take hundreds of people sitting in a mission control, you could run with five guys in a basement and a few laptops.
So I always felt Mars Observer disappeared so that, again, they could look at what they were going to see and make the political decision.
There is no way statistically that we could have landed, plus those landing coordinates were nowhere near Gale Crater from the trajectory analysis.
That is not an answer.
I actually have a very good friend who was involved in the early space program from the...
Anyway, my friend Don, who used to work on all this stuff.
He worked at Rockadine.
He was involved with Mercury and Apollo and Gemini and Shuttle.
He actually, with a straight face, said to me, oh, this has got to be Russian, German engineering from when the Germans secretly went to Mars.
And I said to him, the same thing I'm telling you, because statistically, there is no possible way that we'd wind up in the same place on a planet with a continental area bigger than the Earth.
The traditional observatory for the Vatican is at Castle Gandalfo.
It's just south of Rome.
It's where the Pope spends.
It's kind of his summer home.
It's also a full-fledged working professional observatory.
And we found out a few years ago, a couple years ago, through a very strange set of circumstances, when the Vatican officially announced that ETs could be our brothers, which I looked at as part of this slow disclosure process and slow motion.
Now, what the hell does the Pope, sorry, have a meteorite collection unless he knows because of ancient sacred documents, remember there's always been the rumors of what's in the Vatican archives underneath Rome when the Library of Alexandria burned.
There's a Jesuit priest who's in charge, who was actually giving press conferences and interviews right after the announcement by the, what's his name in London, that, yell, ETs could be our brothers.
When I found out that the papacy has an official meteorite collection, that to me was a ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, because that's part of the trail of evidence.
Remember, our model is, a la the late Dr. Tom Van Flandern, which is a shame he's not around so you could talk to him these days about all this.
His model was there used to be another planet between Mars, between Earth and Jupiter, of which Mars was a moon, a satellite.
And it somehow blew up.
And the meteorites and all the junk that's coursing around the sun now is basically the shrapnel from that extraordinary seminal event in solar system history.
And the Pope has his own collection of those pieces.
Okay, what he's talking about, Art, is in the 1950s, the government, and NASA didn't exist then, of course, it's before 58, announced, this is before the launch of Sputnik and before the launch of Explorer 1, our own first satellite.
There was some object in polar orbit that they called the Dark Knight.
And there were a couple of news stories, including in the Washington Post, I've got the actual stories, and then all references and knowledge disappeared.
It's actually photographed from orbit, from Mars orbit, with the high-rise camera on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter spacecraft, the smash of debris of poor little Beagle as it hit the ground.
My question is, we're talking at Taipei civilization.
So I'm wondering if these have, with its abilities to terraform and add atmosphere and stuff like that, why would they just put domes on the moon instead of just terraforming the whole thing?
Well, if you terraform the moon, if you don't use artificial gravity, the atmosphere will leak away in a relatively short period of time, a few thousand years, I think.
It's called the Jeans number, named after a very famous British astronomer back in the 19th century, Sir James Jeans.
And you can actually do a calculation based on distance from the sun, meaning temperature, size of the planet, meaning surface gravity.
And so if you gave the atmosphere, if you gave the moon an artificial atmosphere, in a couple thousand years between us and the time of Christ, it would leak away.
unidentified
So why didn't they give it an artificial gravity as well?
Maybe you can do it in pockets in local regions, and that's where the domes are.
In other words, there's so much about this that we don't know because we don't have the physics.
Because the physics we're currently using, and I've got a whole bunch of graphs on our site tonight about the physics that we're not going to obviously get to, so I guess we'll have to do that the next time.
But I've been able to prove using actual field measurements with our torsion field technology that the kinds of physics that would be used to terraform and modify the solar system is actually measurable with current techniques, and I've been using them for 10 years since the Venus transit back in 2004.
That's what those other three diagrams are on the bottom of our image page here.
So yeah, they could have maybe terraformed the moon, but we don't know whether there are limitations to where it's easier and more efficient and has a much longer life to do it in a way that it will last thousands or maybe even millions of years, in which case you build yourself artificial environments.
I mean, what's the biggest thing about the moon that makes it a cool, cool place to hang out?
A view of the earth.
And if you want a view of the earth, you need lots and lots and lots of windows, i.e.
a glass dome.
Can you imagine living in Sinus Medi and looking Up every night and seeing the clouds swirling and the planet twirling around, and it's four times the size of the full moon, and it goes through phases, and you get eclipses and rainbows and stunning visual drama.
And a lot of experimentation has proven there is an ether.
Obviously, in two minutes, I don't have time to go through the experiments, but the Russians, the British, the Australians, there's a huge cadre of physicists who have been publishing for years experiments proving there is an ether.
There is a medium, a matrix, a plenum between everything, out of which matter and light and energy that we understand derives from.
What I did, based on the geometry and the physics models that seem to be laid out on the ground at Sidonia in those recurring specific geometric numbers and geometries, is I created a technology which can actually measure the changes in the torsion field in the ether here on Earth.
And it's portable, it's digitized, it's built around the inertial properties of a tuning fork in an Accutron Bulova commercial watch, which was a huge rage back in the 60s when Bulova first brought it out.
And NASA zapped it into everything they could think of, spacecraft, astronauts, you know, control systems.
And then they quietly took them all out.
And why did they do that?
Because they're responding to changes in the torsion field, and they're lousy under certain circumstances at keeping time.
Because they don't keep time.
They change the frequency depending upon what the field is doing.
So what we've done over the last 10 years, since 2004, is we've taken this instrumentation and gone to various places to measure astronomical events, alignments like the transit of Venus across the surface of the Sun in 2004 and then again in 2012, And eclipses, like the one in May of last year in 2012, and the one that occurred in Hawaii a few months ago.
We've also taken it to various archaeological sites built by Mayans, built by Native Americans, built by...
That's one of the places I'm going to go.
You know, current problems there notwithstanding.
And what we've discovered is that the ancient cultures, when they were building these man-made mountains, pyramids, actually were building a solid state amplifier of the background torsion field that allows me to measure changes both in the field and the really amazing part that we've measured at Chitsunica before the solstice last year,
you can actually measure in that field the changing impressions of consciousness on the readings of the field.
It can't really compare, but I'll tell you, when I was tapped on the shoulder to do all that work with Cronkite when I was 23, and they flew me around, and I got to stand at the Cape, and I got to, you know, be at the foot of that huge 360-foot-tall, glistening monument to human genius and ingenuity.
And I got to watch launch after launch, and I got to go out in boats on the night side and take pictures, and got to powl around.
I mean, it's something that I will carry to my grave.
It's like it happened yesterday, and I can remember all the awe and inspiration and the excitement.
And it's something you cannot eliminate from your consciousness if it hasn't been said to you as a tape.
I have to agree that, you know, I don't know whether the minds were affected in some way or what happened, but it's odd beyond my ability to even try an explorer.
No, for that caller, if he wants to do the, Google, is your friend, Google Ed Mitchell's seminal work on this problem called The Way of the Explorer.
The Way of the Explorer.
I don't remember which page, but he actually describes in print art, in his own words, in his own copywritten book, the problem of finding out why he couldn't remember the emotions and connect with them and how it first hit him and how disturbing it was and how he got bothered more and more and more and what he tried to do about it and solve it and figure it out.
So it's not just you and me anecdotally telling a tale.
He's put it in print himself because he's probably the most heroic and courageous of the guys to admit up front something the others have gone through and they haven't wanted to admit it in public.
Well, the thing, sir, you want to look for is look at the eyes.
Yep.
And they're irises, like camera lenses.
unidentified
Well, as long as they don't come along now and say that somebody put that in there as a joke, if they did, that would destroy the validity of every other picture they published because they would never know whether they were legitimate or not.
Yeah, it was pretty ratty by the time I was finished with it.
Now, I like the Roswells thing, Art, but there's one other greeting that could be a little more functional that I'd like to suggest if Roswells gets old, and that's turn off your radio.
It's my favorite thing you say.
It's constant, and we could turn it into a greeting rather than a roadblock.
Well, if we find that any microbes we do ultimately find someday, or bigger life, has our DNA, then the ambiguity will be up there.
We won't know, did we seed Mars at some early stage in our own space program?
If the DNA is different, if as Art said, what, a couple hours ago, think about the junk DNA, if that's expressed in different ways, then we'll be pretty sure that it's an indigenous Martian guy.
Now, of course, in the last week or two, or maybe a month, there have been a couple of papers claiming that Earth life came from Mars, which I think is more gentle, soft disclosure.
Well, I think what we need to do is to introduce the idea of torsion field physics, i.e.
unlimited pollutionless energy, into the culture in a non-threatening form.
Just like going out and finding ruins on another planet shouldn't be that threatening because there's nobody there with ray guns and they're not going to come and eat your face off and whatever.
It's just archaeology.
It's just stuff left by somebody.
The soft landing way of introducing the stunning technologies and engineering and scientific breakthroughs would be, I think, with a commercial toy that runs and runs and runs and runs.
And I found literally a few hours ago in one of my favorite magazines, which is Infinite Energy, which used to be edited by My late dear friend Gene Maloff, before he was viciously murdered in Washington for discussing this stuff at a level where people would take it seriously.
I found an example of exactly that kind of infinite energy torsion field fuel electrical advice, the little torsion pendulum, which has been running in a Bucharest, Hungary museum for the last several years with no power source.
You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland, Dark Matter.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
Hey, it's great to have you back on the air, man.
Hey, I'm just a little bit skeptical, Richard.
I don't doubt that, you know, when millions of years ago maybe that Mars had atmosphere and possibly even advanced life.
But when I think about just the simple things here in archaeology and on Earth and how things deteriorate over the years and things like that, that any kind of Martian man-made object could have survived since its atmosphere has deteriorated all of that.
The current Curiosity mission has a very complicated gadget inside called the SAM instrument, which stands for Sampling Atmosphere on Mars.
They have been running atmospheric tests.
In fact, the story came out today, no methane, no methane, which I find very suspicious since there's been Earth-based astronomers who found copious methane like MUMMA out of Goddard a few years ago.
Anyway, what they've been running is a profile of all the constituents in the current atmosphere, which include things like CO2, nitrogen, oxygen, carbon monoxide.
The oxygen is like down at the 0.01 level or something.
It's really, really a tiny, tiny percentage.
If you bury metallic things like made of steel or iron or aluminum or whatever, magnesium, under sand, under dust on Mars, it is basically the same as having the stuff on the floor of the Atlantic from the Titanic, which did not corrode in almost 100 years, because there's no oxygen two miles down under the North Atlantic because of the pressure.
And there's no oxygen on Mars even a few inches under those sands and dust.
So without oxygen, you don't have corrosion and rust.
If it's protected under dust, it's like the Sphinx, which spends most of its life buried up to its neck in sand.
You don't get windblown abrasion and erosion and sandstorm problems of basically cutting away material.
So you could have on Mars stuff artifacts that would be in almost pristine condition even after millions of years because with an atmosphere that's mostly CO2, if you know anything about basic chemistry or fluid physics,
if you have an atmosphere with heavy molecules and then you put light molecules in amongst the atmosphere, the heavy ones, the light stuff floats on top, which means the heavy atmosphere of Mars, CO2, forces the oxygen to rise so it doesn't even touch the ground.
It's thousands and tens of thousands of feet higher than the surface of Mars for most of Mars' current history, meaning stuff will be preserved almost in pristine conditions.
You're listening to Dark Matter, and I must say, number nine, number nine, number nine, if you see any photograph on my website, artbell.com, this picture, number nine, my goodness, it's just about got me.
In addition to wondering, as I know art must be, if we're ever going to find out actually where cats come from, my question for you, Richard, this is, I was listening to the Stephen Greer interview the other night, and this has been bugging me, and you're the perfect guy to run it by.
Thinking back to the comments you had briefly earlier about the book of Genesis, what if, this is just my hypothesis, what if the information manipulators, can't call them truth manipulators because the truth can't be manipulated, but the information manipulators,
what if what they are afraid of is that the public finds out what they already know, which might be or is that the Bible, our understanding of religion is true.
Not that the truth flies in the face of religion, but our understanding of religion is actually true.
And maybe that there's a judgment coming.
I mean, Jesus, everybody pretty much accepts that Jesus said, you're going to do great things like I did, and you're going to do even bigger things than I did.
You know, when I had a cat that was so sick, Richard, I took it to the vet, and the vet was, you know, doing things over, it took two or three months to heal this cat.
And her comment to me was that cats have a biology, a physiology that is so different than anything else on the planet that they might as well be from another world.
It's part of the data I'm going to put in Dark Mission because I discovered back, oh, Muslim, what, 20 years ago, that the right-hand side of the face is a feline image, a lion-esque image married to the left-hand side, which is a hominid anthropoid image, which always said to me when I figured that out that this was some meta-message about genetic engineering on a mega-scale.
You know, the concept of peer review is people who have enough background to understand anomalies when they see them and not just go to sleep or, you know, play the party line.
The fact that you see number nine for what it is, and you're going to see a lot more when you go to Enterprise Mission and read part one and part two of it only takes one white crow.
Because I think the real mission of curiosity is to prepare us by dumping hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of things like number nine.
And it's just, you know, we don't have the staff to go through and clean them up and make sure that the colors are balanced and that the contrast is good because they're covered by all this icky, icky, yellowish dust, which makes it impossible to see anything.
And that's what they want.
They want to delay the inevitable as long as possible while they figure out.
And I think what ultimately is the political agenda here is that when ultimately someone says, yes, there was stuff on Mars, NASA can point back to the Curiosity mission and say, well, we published it all along just like we said we would.
We're not hiding anything.
If you're too damn dumb to notice it, it's not our fault.