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June 10, 2007 - Art Bell

02:37:06

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Prophecy - War with Iran - John Hogue

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50:48

john hogue

01:26:13

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's prolific time zones, each and every one covered like a blanket by this program, Coast to Coast AM, the largest program of its type in the world.
		What a claim, and it's true.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My honor and privilege to be escorting you through the weekend.
		The first story I think is a very interesting story, and I hope you'll comment on it.
		Studies say death penalty deters crime.
		Well, I imagine it does.
		Anti-death penalty forces have gained momentum in the past few years with a moratorium in Illinois, court disputes over lethal injection in more than a half dozen states, and progress toward outright abolishment in New Jersey.
		The steady drumbeat of DNA exonerations, pointing out flaws in the justice system as weighed against capital punishment.
		The moral opposition is loud, too, echoed in Europe and the rest of the industrialized world, where all but a few countries banned executions years ago.
		Now, I have always been a staunch advocate of the death penalty.
		An eye for an eye and all of that, right?
		You take a life, you give a life.
		However, as they point out in this story, this constant drumbeat of exonerations, people sitting on death row who suddenly get exonerated because DNA proves they didn't do it, I'm beginning to change my opinion.
		If we could be absolutely certain that the people we're strapping to a gurney and injecting or worse really did do what got them that sentence, then I'd be all for it.
		But of late, there have been too many of these exonerations.
unidentified		Now, it's simply too final.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just too damn final.
		I know, you know, they appeal for 10 years and so forth, but yikes.
		Too many people have been yanked off death row at the last minute just because they actually didn't do the crime.
		And that's really got to give you pause.
		It does me to the point where I'm beginning to change my opinion.
		Now, maybe after more years go by and we can be sure, you know, right now we're going through a lot of old cases, right?
		Where there was DNA collected but not tested because we didn't have the means to test it then.
		Maybe after another decade or two, you could bring it back when you were sure.
		I don't know.
		But with the prospect of putting innocent people to death, I think even the hardest, staunchest supporters of it have got to have some second thoughts.
		The crew of Atlantis and the international...
		The crew of Atlantis and the International Space Station greeted each other with hugs and handshakes Sunday after the space shuttle arrived at the orbiting outpost.
		But amid the smiles and salutations, engineers in Houston, 220 miles down below, began evaluating whether a peeled-back thermal blanket should be fixed by the astronauts.
		With a thunderous rumble and a cloud of dust and smoke, an apparent suicide vehicle bomb brought down a section of highway bridge south of Baghdad on Sunday, wounded several U.S. soldiers guarding the crossing and blocking traffic on Iraq's main north-south artery.
		There was no immediate U.S. Army confirmation on the number and severity of the casualties.
		An Iraqi civilian also injured, and on it goes.
		President Bush enthusiastically welcomed as the first U.S. president in this former communist nation, Albania, served notice Hundy that he's running out of patience with Russia's objections to independence for neighboring Kosovo.
		Sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough's enough.
		Kosovo is independent.
		Bush was, of course, telling Albanians what they wanted to hear.
		He said independence was a certainty.
		Twin infant boys were among six people found shot to death in a home after a domestic dispute erupted into a barrage of gunfire that some neighbors shrugged off as pre-4th of July firecrackers wasn't.
		Two-year-old girl was found in a nearby van seriously wounded with a gunshot in her chest.
		A jailed Chinese reporter accused of leaking state secrets has joined a U.S. lawsuit claiming Yahoo Inc.
		helped the Chinese government convict dissidents.
		His mother said Sundays, Shi Tiao, who was sentenced in 2005 to 10 years in prison, is seeking compensation from the Sunnyvale, California-based internet company claiming Yahoo Hong Kong and Yahoo China provided information to the Chinese authorities that led to his arrest.
		I've got a story here on the Sopranos, but I'm not going to read it because I would assume many of you out there have recorded the Sopranos, don't know what the ending is, and I'll be damned if I'm going to tell you and ruin it for those of you that may have yet to be able to watch it.
		All right, I've got some additional news that I want to get in.
		A couple of things that I would like to sort of throw on the table here.
		And one is, I know it's going to be your urge to congratulate me on the birth of Azerine, but for the sake of repetitive stuff that people don't want to hear, please don't.
		I will simply Know, and believe me, I do know by the thousands and thousands of messages that you really did congratulate me.
		So please don't do it in the course of the program this evening for the sake of those who just don't want to hear it over and over again.
		That in mind, we'll come back with a little more news and then unscreened open lines.
		Well, all right, we covered this a little bit last night with Wedley, but I want you to hear it.
		The following is from sfgate.com.
		NASA scientists reading signals from a satellite in orbit and flying aboard a low-flying plane over Greenland.
		And I want to remind the audience, the ice on Greenland is not in water.
		The ice on Greenland is on land.
		Anyway, they're finding fresh evidence of melting snows and thinning glaciers in vast areas of the massive island.
		Their observations confirm the climate's warming trend in this far northern reach of the world.
		They say where changes in the circulation of waters feeding the Arctic Ocean are altering crucial patterns of ocean currents there, with effects that are increasingly uncertain.
		The pace of glaciers sliding into the sea along Greenland's southwestern coast is speeding like gangbusters this year, according to William Crabel, leader of the NASA team that has just ended a three-week airborne mission probing glacier dynamics with lasers and radar.
		In order to avert distortion by dense cloud, or clouds actually, the team flew criss-cross patterns across the ice at altitudes no higher than 1,500 feet.
		Abel said Friday in a telephone interview from his base at Nassau Wallops Island Flight Facility in Virginia and similar flights several years ago, he recalled.
		Data gathered by instruments aboard the plane showed the glaciers were moving into the ocean at the rate of about six feet a year.
		That's six feet a year.
		But seven flights this spring covering 16,000 miles of Greenland surface and coastal glaciers revealed ice along the southern coast is speeding into the sea at more than 75 feet a year.
		So from six feet a year to 75 feet a year in just a few years.
		The island's huge ice sheet is two miles thick at the center.
		And Crables team has been monitoring the island's surface and the glaciers flowing into the sea every year now for the past 15.
		It's clear, he said, the entire island has been losing significant amounts of ice year by year.
		And while the glaciers are on the move, Greenland snows have been melting over large areas of the ice sheet, according to Marco Tedesco, a research scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, who's been working on a joint climate study project with the University of Maryland.
		Data from a Defense Department meteorology satellite shows last spring the snow on Greenland melted over an area of more than 375,000 square miles, nearly 2.5 times the surface area of California.
		That was far more than the island's average summertime snow melt of 350,000 square miles, said he.
		18 years of the satellite observations have now shown that while the fluctuating trend of melting ice continues, last summer didn't set the all-time record for snowmelt on Greenland's surface.
		For example, five summers ago, melting snow covered more than 540,000 square miles, nearly 3.5 times California's area.
		That's big.
		In New Scientist, Jim Giles writes about the International Crisis Group based in Belgium.
		What they do is monitor regions where conflicts are brewing and wars might start in hopes of stopping them before they begin.
		Giles reports that a group of retired U.S. admirals and generals has said that global warming will act as a threat multiplier that will topple unstable governments and unleash conflict.
		The crisis in Darfar, Sudan, is considered to be the first climate change war because it was preceded by years of drought.
		Hurricane season officially begins in June, and this year it began just a little bit early.
		These powerful swirling storms are triggered by the surface warming of the ocean, but now researchers think they may be nature's way of slowing down global warming by cooling off the ocean.
		Atmospheric scientists have found evidence that tropical cyclones and hurricanes play a very important role in the ocean circulation patterns that transport heat and maintain the climate of North America and Europe.
	This is known as the Gulf Stream, which acts as an open conveyor belt.
	The upper part of the conveyor belt travels from the south to the north, passing through the Pacific Ocean and Indian Oceans and past warmer latitudes, warming the water brought to North America and Europe.
	Without it, Europe would freeze.
	Researcher Matthew Huber says it was thought that hurricanes occurred over too short a period of time, too small an area to affect the global system.
	Our research, though, provides evidence that hurricanes indeed play an important role and may be one of the missing pieces in the climate modeling puzzle.
	Warm water fuels hurricanes, which have been shown to leave cold water in their wake.
	His team discovered that hurricanes cool the tropics, forming in response to higher temperatures, acting as a thermostat for the area.
	This explains some of the mystery of the observed temperatures from the distant past during a greenhouse climate.
	The poles were much warmer than today, about 82 degrees Fahrenheit, but the tropics were not much warmer than they are right now.
	All right, privately employed super wardens, this is a big brother story, super wardens are on patrol in Greater Manchester wearing head-mounted video cameras in England.
	Head-mounted video cameras.
	The 20 parking attendants who work for NCP services are going to be the first in the country to be issued the equipment.
	Their main role is to issue parking tickets, but under legislation brought in last year, they'll also have powers to give on-the-spot fines for, are you ready, Anti-social behavior.
	The council there has asked the wardens to issue penalties for up to 80 pounds for offenses, which include littering, flyposting, allowing dogs to foul the pavement with you-know-what.
	NCP will use the film as evidence to back up their warden should any fine be challenged, and also in the event of any attack or abuse.
	In some cases, the footage could be handed to police and then used in court.
	Big brother.
	U.S. researchers are currently developing a remote-controlled robot, and this robot is actually being designed to rescue injured or abducted soldiers without putting their comrades at risk.
	The prototype of the nearly six-foot-tall battlefield extraction assist robot, that's what it's called, a battlefield extraction assist robot called Bear, can lift nearly 300 pounds with one arm.
	And its developer, Venka Technologies of College Park, Maryland, is focusing on improving its two-legged lower body.
	Tracks on its thighs and shins allow the robot to climb rough terrain or up and down stairs while crouching or kneeling.
	Wheels at its hips, knees, and feet allow it to switch to two wheels to travel over smooth surfaces while adopting a variety of positions.
	Can you imagine something like that coming at you?
	The robot's humanoid body and teddy bear-style head give it a friendly appearance.
	Quote, a really important thing when you're dealing with casualties is trying to maintain that human touch, said Gary Gilbert of the U.S. Army's Telemedicine and Advanced Technology Research Center, which provided the initial $1 million in developmental funding.
	Congress has since added $1.1 million.
	The robot, by the way, can also load trucks and carry equipment.
	I don't know why you'd want to give it a friendly face.
	It's going to go in and rescue soldiers.
unidentified		You'd want to kind of mean, wouldn't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I always knew there was something about Canadians.
		Tasty Canadians.
		Some of them, when they bleed, don't bleed red blood.
		Doctors at Vancouver St. Paul's Hospital came across something highly illogical when they tried to put an arterial line into a patient about to undergo surgery.
		His blood was instead dark green.
		The green blood, reminiscent of the Vulcan blood found in Mr. Spock of Star Trek fame, came as a bit of a shock to Dr. Alan Flexman and her colleagues who report on the unusual case this week in the issue of The Well-Respected Lancet.
		42-year-old man was already a bit of a medical departure.
		He'd fallen asleep while kneeling and developed compartment syndrome in both legs, whatever that is.
		The potentially dangerous condition involves a buildup of pressure and deep muscle tissue, in this case, the legs.
		And unless the pressure is relieved, permanent nerve damage could have been sustained.
		As surgical staff prepared the man for the middle-of-the-night emergency operation, Flexman and a colleague attempted to insert a line into a wrist artery.
		Arterial lines are used to monitor blood pressure during an operation.
		Any blood that flows when the line is inserted into the artery should be vivid red.
		You know, that's a sign that the blood is receiving oxygen.
		But in this case, which occurred in October 2005, it wasn't.
		During insertion, we normally see arterial blood come out.
		That's how we know we're in the right place.
		And normally it's bright red, as you'd expect in an artery.
		But in this case, the blood kept coming back as dark green instead of bright red.
		It was sort of a green-black, like an avocado skin, maybe.
		The reaction in the room?
		Very concerned, obviously.
		Now, they're not sure exactly what has done this.
		It could be some sort of medicine or something, but there you go.
		Canadians with green blood.
		There's a story from the Philippines.
		A jobless man was shot to death by a security guard.
		They have a lot of security guards in the Philippines.
		Every store, virtually every store, every building has a security guard with a shotgun.
		Anyway, this fellow was shot to dead, for a shot to death, rather, for singing an out-of-tune song in a karaoke bar.
		Romy Belugia, 29, was halfway through his song, only halfway, Tuesday night, in a bar just east of Manila, when 43-year-old security guard Roberto Ortega yelled that he was out of tune.
		But he ignored the comments, continued singing.
		Ortega pulled out his revolver and shot him in the chest.
		Senior Superintendent Felipe Rojas said the victim died instantly.
		Security guard was detained by an off-duty policeman shortly after the shooting.
		Deaths and violence are not uncommon in Philippine karaoke bars.
		You'd think that such a thing would make you a little hesitant to get up and sing at all.
		The popular Frank Sinatra song My Way has been taken off many karaoke bars in Manila after it was found to be the cause of fights and even deaths when patrons sang out of tune.
		So I guess My Way is considered to be somewhat sacred in the Philippines.
		I don't know.
		I thought it was always sacred here.
		Annapolis narcotics officers hit the wrong apartment last night while serving a search and seizure warrant terrorizing the four tenants and damaging their home.
		Rifles in hand, police forcibly entered the apartment at 9.05 Primrose Road at 8.20 p.m.
		While the couple was fixing dinner, the other two tenants were at the grocery store.
		According to police reports, woman in the apartment barricaded a bedroom door with her body.
		As about 15 officers burst through the front door, the tenants or natives of El Salvador spoke very little English.
		The Annapolis Special Emergency Team then used what was described as a noise flash device, and they were able to enter the bedroom.
		The woman identified by police as Sylvia Burnell, 30, said police never identified themselves and kicked her husband in the groin, pushed her to the ground before handcuffing.
		Both then realized, of course, they were in the wrong house, and there were a lot of apologies, and there's probably going to be smacks and who knows what because of all this.
		But one thing the police have to do is be darn sure which door they're knocking down.
		All right, when we get back, you'll hear somebody with a very deep voice recite the phone numbers.
		That's going to mean you can pick up a phone and join us from the high desert in the middle of the night.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Here I am indeed.
		We're about to go to unscreened open lines.
		That means there's nobody between you and me.
		Nobody.
		So that means you're instantly on the air when I answer the phone.
		So, if you would please, when you hear me answer, immediately turn your radio off, not down, but all the way off, because there is a delay system.
		And that'll confuse you.
		It'll actually make you sound confused on the air, and you don't want that, I'm sure.
		I want to get your point across.
		And speaking of that, hopefully you will have a good one for the audience at large.
		There sure is enough to talk about.
	Again, I would love to hear some of you.
	I've been a staunch death penalty supporter all my life.
	But there have just been too many innocent people yanked off, yanked out of, you know, the death walk moment at the last moment by new evidence that says they didn't do it.
	And under those, you know, with that kind of evidence in front of me, it's caused me to question the efficacy of the death penalty, period.
	I mean, you just don't want to be putting innocent people to death, do you?
	We'll be right back.
	All right, here we go, as promised.
	Wildcard line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jeremy from Sacramento.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jeremy.
unidentified		Hey, I was calling to see if you ever thought about doing another mass consciousness experiment like you did a couple of months ago, I believe.
unidentified		You there, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm here.
		I'm thinking.
		You know, not immediately.
		And I sort of talked myself into that one because I thought it would be all right.
		I'm a little hesitant, as I know you know, to do them because of unintended consequences.
unidentified		Yeah, but I believe the last time he did it, everybody had good replies about it.
unidentified		Nothing seemed to happen that was in the negative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		I think it was a great deal, and I think if we keep doing it, you know, most people will start going up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's one of the reasons I did it, because I didn't see a negative side to it.
		But even then, I was a little nervous about doing it.
		If I were to do one, what would you like to see?
unidentified		Kind of like everybody to have the intent to have UFOs just to come hover above the sky like they did last time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you want to repeated the last one.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I think it was excellent.
		When you guys did the last time, I went outside and sure enough, it happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
unidentified		I believe it works, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		All right.
		Thank you.
		Well, yeah, I think it works too.
		And that's exactly the reason why I'm so hesitant to do it because I'm not sure.
		And even with that one, I mean, what if, what if they had shown up in the skies and then, like some terrible movie that we've seen, you know, the death rays began to come down.
		Who would they be coming after?
		So, you know, I thought it was okay to give it a try.
		And it had been, I think, actually years since I did the previous one.
		But I think it's appropriate that we give this long, hard thought.
		In view of the fact that it works, it's not a toy.
		It's not something to play with, which I did do years ago.
		It's something to give very, very, very serious thought to.
		And I will do that.
		I will.
		East of the Rockies.
		Wait a minute.
		Let me try that again.
		Here we go.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hey, greetings, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Greetings, sir.
unidentified		Hey, congratulations on your new addition to your family there.
unidentified		That's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just couldn't not say it, huh?
unidentified		That's great.
unidentified		No, really, that's super.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you a question.
		Have you watched a program on A ⁇ E?
		You've got a guy, Chris Angel, mind freak.
		He's a magician down in Vegas.
		This guy's very compelling.
		I'm very skeptical usually about stuff like that, but he is so compelling.
		I mean, I don't know what to make of it.
		Are you familiar with him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
		But you just said it.
		I mean, you said he is a magician.
		Now.
		Well, does he claim that what he's doing is real magic as opposed to tricks?
unidentified		Well, I think there's a fine line there.
unidentified		A lot of illusionary type stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, that's probably what it is then.
unidentified		Well, I've done a lot of reading and looking into Native Americans and Native American shaman, and a lot of what they describe, what they've done and are able to do, this guy's doing.
unidentified		And just the whole levitation things, you can't fake people's reactions on television, and there's no camera breaks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but that's why they call it illusion, my friend.
unidentified		Oh my gosh, it's mind-blowing.
unidentified		I don't know what to make of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when an act like that, thank you, gets to Las Vegas, then it's got to be pretty damn good, right?
		We're an entertainment capital, and we've got some really good magicians, but that's what it is.
		That's why it's called an illusion.
		You know, and it's entertaining, and it's fun.
		But unless this individual is claiming that what he's actually doing is magic, which certainly would invite some inquiries and certainly would pique my interest, then I would assume that it's illusion and very good illusion.
		I'm sure he's very, very good at what he does, but I wouldn't take it beyond that.
		Wildcard line, you are on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
unidentified		This is not related to tonight's show, but my name is Norman Jackson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we don't allow, I'm sorry, we don't allow last names on the air.
		I'm sorry, I had to dump that.
		That just got erased.
		So you and I have to begin all over again.
		Your name is Norman, and where are you calling from?
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from California, Citrus Heights.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And my issue was that I'm paraplegic right now.
		Yes, sir.
		And you had someone speaking about that the other day.
		It told my, what was it, not Gene Sales.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a show I didn't do, so I'm not familiar with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the point?
unidentified		Well, the point was they had an address on there and a number to call to, I don't know where it was to, because I barely heard it.
unidentified		And it was about people who have, who are quadriplegic and paraplegic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and that was on Coast to Coast AM, right?
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was on Coast to Coast AM?
unidentified		Yeah, just...
unidentified		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What you want to do is get the number?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what you're going to need to do is to contact the network, and I'm sure they'll do their very best to get it for you.
		But not having heard the show, and certainly not having made note of the number, I can't help you out.
		However, I would imagine they can.
		If that's something that appeared on this program on Coast to Coast AM any day, there's a very, very good chance the network will have it.
		Or short of that, you might get somebody to look on the internet for you, and a lot of that information is retained days and weeks after the program.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is you.
unidentified		Okay, I'm sorry.
unidentified		I'm calling from, this is Bobby, calling from Northern California, north of Reading.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Bobby.
unidentified		And calling about the drones that Whitley was speaking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, we've got loads of them up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Loads of them?
unidentified		Yes, we see them almost regularly.
unidentified		And I have seen at close hand, in other words, 30 feet horizontal to less than 30 feet vertically, one of these tiny craft, just like the size of a cockpit, no wings, no tail, no length, and emitting lights, a craft of some kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Bobby.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you see them on a regular basis?
unidentified		Every night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every night.
		All right.
		How about some pictures or better yet, video?
unidentified		Yeah, I can't.
		What turned me on was the fact that he said there's a guy running around here with high-tech equipment and a truck trying to pin this down.
		And if he could just come up our way, he'd find something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		And again, again, Bobby, your location is where?
unidentified		Okay, about 20 miles north of Reading, California.
		Right.
		Near I-5.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Okay.
		I'm sure that that will interest some.
		There are many people, and many of us are extremely interested in whatever this is.
		I mean, it is odd.
		I say again to me, I think it's terrestrial odd as opposed to extra-terrestrial.
		However, the markings on it have not been deciphered.
		And they don't look very terrestrial.
		So we really need more information.
		We need one of these things shot down, I suppose, or taken down.
		Or we need some good video of it.
		Maybe not shot down.
		I mean, just on the off chance that it actually is extra terrestrial.
		Maybe a better idea is not to shoot at it.
		But certainly we need more information.
		So anybody out there who can glom onto anything for us on these drones, believe me, we're all interested.
		Boy, would I like that solved in my lifetime.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very well.
unidentified		Wow.
		Wow, this is incredible.
		The luck I get to get through to you.
		Hey, Art, I want to ask you a few questions.
		One about Saturn and this mission, this Cassini mission.
		What do you think about this news coming from Enceladus, I believe, is the name of the moon?
		Do you ever pronounce it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what information is that?
unidentified		That this moon is spewing oxygen into the open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I haven't heard that.
		Can you send me something on that?
		I monitor everything pretty carefully.
		It's spewing oxygen.
		No, I haven't heard that.
unidentified		Check out the Cassini website on the nasa.gov.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And you'll see Enceladus, Enceladus, I believe is how you pronounce it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they say it's spewing oxygen into what, empty space?
unidentified		Into empty space.
unidentified		And they believe that there might be life down there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's oxygen.
		Oxygen.
		Why would a moon of Saturn have oxygen?
unidentified		It's incredible, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we live in an incredible time.
		We're discovering planets that are like Earth.
		We're discovering all kinds of things.
		It's an amazing time.
unidentified		This one's very close.
		And the other moon, I can't remember what it is.
		It's also all ice.
		I can't remember it off the top of my head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All ice.
unidentified		But if you check the Cassini website, it's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll take a look.
unidentified		I'm really thrilled about this one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		And I certainly will.
		Spewing oxygen.
		Well, I suppose that a component of ice, if it's water ice, could be oxygen, right?
		But how would it get to a moon?
		How would it get to a moon where there shouldn't have been any oxygen at all?
		That's a mystery, all right?
		That's a good one.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
unidentified		Hey, just wanted to, long time listener, started hooked up on the radio, listening to you around 1997.
		And then you and George hooked up on me, keeping me awake almost until 11, maybe midnight, sometime later too.
		But you guys are doing an amazing job.
		I have one thing to talk to you about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Now, at least six times, I had a prior feeling of earthquake prediction.
		Like, I have friends, family, co-worker who I informed at least 24 hours prior to any major earthquake that happened, magnitude of six and more.
		Yes.
		And out of nowhere, I'm crossing the street, normal life, and I'm crossing the street or standing up, and I would start getting the feeling that there will be an earthquake within the next 24 to 48 hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you have been accurate.
unidentified		When I say that, I say that it's going to be a big one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you saying now that there is going to be one within 24 hours?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A big one?
unidentified		Not now, but I just had it in the past.
		I just wanted to share that I do have this ability.
		Unfortunately, I never got any feeling when the big earthquake hit in India, in western part.
		It was, in fact, in my own city where I'm from.
		I never got feeling, but otherwise, the last one in Japan, whatever, 7 point something.
		Before that, 6 point something.
		And whenever I worked in Toronto, in Canada, my brother-in-law, friends, wife, son, everybody is a witness that I told them that be watchful for the next 48 hours for a big event of an earthquake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I appreciate the gone.
		I don't doubt you for a second.
		These precognitive feelings that people have about certain things are real.
		You know, I say that having experienced one myself.
		They are real.
		People do have precognitive ability.
		Now, I don't know that it, you know, in his case, it relates to earthquakes, and it may be, you know, for different people different things.
		But having experienced precognition myself, I know it's real.
		So I think if I were you, I would begin documenting this in a way, as opposed to telling friends and family, write it down, put it in the mail, do something so that you can begin to document beyond question that you called it.
		You know, whether you have to send it off to somebody, get a stamp on it, whatever it takes, do that.
		And I would suggest that to all the rest of you who have feelings about things that are going to happen and are accurate.
		You can't really tell anybody about it because they go, oh, come on.
		We'll figure out a way to document that.
		And perhaps we can advance this whole field of parapsychology.
		First time, Color Line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art Go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I wanted to comment on one caller about that Chris Angel mind freak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About what?
unidentified		The Chris Angel mind freak guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, is this on some previous show?
unidentified		Yeah, that caller that was two callers ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Was commenting on the magician, Chris Angel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Okay.
		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, I'm sorry if I'm kind of just waking up and listening to your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently I am too.
		All right.
		So what is it you want to say about it?
unidentified		You know what?
		I've been to Magic Castle, you know, here in Hollywood, and I know a couple magicians, and they spend a lot of time building props and making things disappear.
		And he's an excellent entertainer, but the one thing about him is he's very hypnotic and he's very intuitive.
		He does a couple episodes that are kind of interesting.
		There's this one where he does a radio thing on a radio station, and he's recording it two days prior, and he picks the lotto numbers.
		And then he also claims that, I mean, he called this thing that happened to George Bush, and it was in the paper.
		It was amazing.
		And otherwise, the rest of the stuff that he does, I understand it's magic and an illusion type stuff.
		But he does have an intuitive quality about him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody who pits lotto numbers ahead of time is certainly impressing me.
unidentified		Yeah, and I can't remember what episode it was.
		It was his first season, like episode four or something, where he did this.
		And he did it with a radio station, and the people around him were just in awe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'd be in awe too.
		And maybe, all right, I've got it.
		So maybe what he's doing does go beyond, you know, I don't want to say simple illusion because there's nothing simple about being a good illusionist.
		But yes, anybody who can pick lot of numbers ahead of time is going to impress me, and I'm sure a lot of you.
		West to the Rockies, you're on the air, not a lot of time.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		This is Bob from Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, turn your radio off and proceed.
unidentified		Okay, yes.
unidentified		I wanted to, the subject was spontaneous astral projection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Which I started having when I was about 10 years old.
unidentified		Which I had never, you know, I just thought it was a natural thing because between the ages of 10 and 15, it would happen almost every night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, suddenly you're somewhere else.
unidentified		I would be flying over my grammar school, and one time I was flying over my grammar school, looked on the roof, and it just rained, and there was a basketball that was half-deflazed up in one corner of the building.
		So the next day, I went and asked the janitor of the school if just for the heck of it, he'd go up there and look.
		He brought the basketball down.
		I almost passed out.
		There I had absolute proof that I did have astral projection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, then you see, for you too, I'm sorry we're out of time, but for you too, find a way to document this.
		If you really have that ability, it goes for all the rest of you.
		My goodness, folks, we can advance the cause of parapsychology a long way.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Little simple research, here it is on the Cassini side.
		Magnetosphere, recent discoveries, magnetospheric oxygen.
		One of the most remarkable discoveries about Saturn's magnetosphere was made before Cassini even reached Saturn by Cassini's Ultraviolet Imaging Spectrograph, or UVIS.
		Capable of observing in the ultraviolet wavelength range, UVIS detected a massive buildup of neutral atomic oxygen while the spacecraft was en route to Saturn.
		A few months after the initial detection, UVIS data showed a large cloud of escaping oxygen atoms had dissipated just as rapidly as it had appeared.
		Scientists now suspect the sporadic plume at the south pole of the moon in Clitius is that it is responsible.
		So there you are.
		All right, coming up in a moment, John Hogue.
		John Hogue writes on the subjects of the occult, parapsychology, mysticism, and prophecy.
		He is considered a world authority on Nostradamus and is the best-selling author of numerous books, including Nostradamus, The Complete Prophecies, and Nostradamus, The New Millennium, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, The Last Pope and Messiahs, The Visions and Prophecies for the Second Coming.
		His work has brought him international acclaim.
		He's an old hand on this program, has been published in 18 languages, sold over a million copies worldwide.
		In addition, he's appeared on over 700 radio and television shows on three continents.
		In a moment, John Hoag.
		Certainly a world expert on Nostradamus.
		Ladies and gentlemen, here is John Hoag.
		John, welcome back to the program.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's been a while.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's been since July 30th last year that we talked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That long.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And you were skirting two typhoons in Manila.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		It's just about typhoon season again, actually.
		How have you been, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have been very busy trying to keep a pace of quickening history and get things out before history catches up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's happening very quickly.
		Everything in the world right now is unfolding.
		When I wrote The Quickening, it was a snail compared to what it's doing now.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it seems that one can be carried by it.
		I mean, I did something in the last seven weeks that in all my 30 years of writing I've never done before.
		I wrote a book of 70,000 words in seven weeks.
		And it was a book that I was some inner insight compelled to have written as fast as possible because I tried to get it out before events took place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which book is that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the book that I call Nostradamus The War with Iran.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, The War with Iran.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it is an e-book that's posted on my website and fully illustrated and multimedia aspects to it.
		And basically, as I was writing this book, on the conscious level, I was thinking, there's just no way this war can happen.
		It just seems too ludicrous that such an idiotic war could take place.
		But deep down inside, that thing that I just euphemistically call my oracle, which is that opening in me that does this sort of work over the years, interpreting as well as sometimes making my own predictions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it sounds a little bit like you've gone from being a Nostradamus scholar to sort of entering the Nostradamus arena yourself.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's always been there.
		It's just more and more kind of some people come out of the closet, other people come out of the Nostradamian mask.
		And I think if one is really involved deeply into the work, one does start to make similar predictions because it is a talent that we all have.
		The other thing that is important, as you were saying the last hour, is to document what one does.
		And with my Hope Prophecy archives and with every show I've done of those 700-plus shows, I've always had a recording of every show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You're lucky, John.
		Look, in furtherance of something that I think you and I and a lot of this audience darn well knows is true, this whole paranormal, this ability to prognosticate, this ability to know things before they're going to happen, it's real.
		But the only way we're ever going to nail it down scientifically is to do exactly that.
		Either write a book, send it off to somebody in a way that can be proven later.
		We've got to start nailing this down, and that'll stop the laughing.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because one of the great revolutions that are coming for the human race is something that is so rare in our history, and that is a balance, a revolution of balancing between the irrational and the rational, the subjective and the objective.
		And right now, we seem to either be all listening to one side of our perception or listening to the other side and talking beyond each other.
		The people who call themselves skeptics in cynics' clothing and the people who just blindly believe in anything they're told are two extremes.
		And in a way, extreme is something we're much more familiar in our history than any other than balance.
		Balance and harmony is almost an alien concept.
		And yet, the whole thrust of the future, it takes no profit to see that in our near future, the biggest issue we're dealing with is to find a balance, to find a harmony with our earth, with our climate, with each other.
		And there seems to be certain forces in this quickening that I would like to coin the phrase as the forces of the old humanity, which is coming to an end because we are now in a new age where a new kind of humanity is about to be born in the next century.
		And what often happens is the old never, rarely ever surrenders to the new without a fight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, explain to me what you mean by a new humanity.
		A new humanity in what way?
		Well, now we're all familiar with, I don't know, human emotions, you know, anger, envy, jealousy, happiness, joy.
		I mean, all of these different human emotions that make us all up.
		How are they going to change?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're not going to change, but something is going to awaken that's deeper than all of that.
		All of those issues in the future will be seen as part of the personality, the ego.
		That in the future, people, as they become more scientifically involved in studying the paranormal, they're going to discover that there is a being, a consciousness that uses the body-mind structure, but is not of the body-mind structure.
		It's almost like this.
		To describe a metaphor for where we are today, the old mankind believes that they are one with their car, which would be the body and the mind.
		They believe that they're so identified with it because they're trained to be identified with it.
		In the future, because of the crises that are coming now and through the next 50, 60 years, are going to be crises that evoke a change of habit or a dropping of habits that have gotten us to a point of destruction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to take something really big to do that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, and there's several things on the front.
		One of them being the potential of a widening of the war in the Middle East as far as that goes and how that relates to the center of most of our fossil fuel resources.
		And there's also the definite quickening of ecological and climatic changes, which as far back as the early 90s in my books, I was saying that the scientists are being too cautious, that what's coming is far sooner than what they project.
		The three to seven-foot rise in the oceans back then they thought would happen in the 2100s.
		And now it's more looking like the mid-21st century.
		And now some people are saying perhaps even sooner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all those climate model critics were correct.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the climate model critics who I wouldn't say they were correct, except that they were it's good that the scientists were cautious and not alarmist, but now what we're seeing is there's at least big surprises that are coming into the sequence.
		I mean, intuitively, people who look into the future could see the thing coming but could not objectively tie it in with objective reality.
		But now we're discovering since the last 10 years that the tundra, once it warms up this huge carbon sink or storage area of some of the most large amounts of methane and CO2 gas, is now venting into the atmosphere and cascading a faster change of climate than anyone expected.
		And of course, fortunately with objective science is that once new data comes in, they can then change their views.
		And unfortunately for us, we are not even within a 10-year decade grace period anymore.
		We're now looking at eight years from now, some scientists are saying, before we see the triggering cascading points where oceans begin to rise, the climate goes out of control.
		I mean, one of the most important reports from last year was that the Great Conveyor Belt of the ocean currents had stopped for a while in December.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It split and stopped, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and this is significant, far more significant than Iraq or Anna Nicole Smith or anything else that seems to focus our attention because it means the very world that we live in and on is becoming undermined.
		And we have no other place to go.
		And this is far more significant than any of the problems we have politically or socially.
		And, you know, just the, for instance, just the simple reality that as many prophecies that I've studied and I've talked with you since 1994, we've been bandying back and forth prophecies, many prophecies from all over the cultures and histories of mankind that collectively foresee a rise in the Earth's oceans.
		And, you know, if you have a rise of even several feet, if you have a rise of 10 feet, That means all the ports are inundated.
		That means the ships cannot unload their cargoes.
		That means a complete disruption of the food flow of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of that, yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and just a few feet of ocean rise.
		And it's just, I think, one of the biggest problems that humanity has is that there's nothing...
		And one of the things that's come up often is that people are saying, you know, we just don't understand this strange presence, this energy that's going across the world.
		It doesn't seem, we can't seem to read it right.
		And then they ask me about it, and I say, well, one of the things I see in this strange feeling, I mean, I'm sure a lot of you out there are feeling it, a certain kind of heaviness or fogginess or an intensity of numbness or foreboding that seems to be growing in the world.
		I'm sure even five, six years ago, you can remember how things used to work better, how just the basic functions of government used to work, how you notice how you try to call and do a basic transaction or things.
		There seems to be more screw-ups that happen.
		And things that seem rather odd are just kind of taken as a given when 10 years ago, if you heard a president say certain things that this current president says, he would be taken in a straitjacket, or other leaders.
		It's just a very strange time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's begin with Iran.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You believe we're about to go to war with Iran, right?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And to close that point is that what I was going to say to those people is that there is a mind plague taking place.
		And Iran is part of that problem because there's also a kind of madness that seems to be leading the three major protagonists in the Middle East towards a collision or a war.
		The leaderships of Israel, of Iran, and the United States.
		In this book, Nasser Damas, The War with Iran, I try to look at what's underpinning this will to catharsis, and it seems that there's a lot of projections of apocalyptic tradition running in all three groups,
		and that is leading towards a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy that I'm not sure the leaders are completely conscious of, that it's kind of an old habit that's reaching its culmination.
		And part of that problem is that we have a world that is in the psychosphere, the ecology of the psychic atmosphere, the etheric, is probably has too many people on the planet thinking and living unconsciously.
		That's creating a cascading effect, which is perhaps part of what that strange presence is that we all seem to feel or that how things are getting sillier and crazier and we don't really know why.
		It has something to do with what native seers have been saying that from 1990 and climaxing around 2030, this wave of madness is part of the travail that's going to come over the world and start what is called the Great Purification,
		where a lot of the old ideas will have to be surrendered to the past and people will have to embrace new ideas and innovations and new ways of thinking and living and being to create a new humanity,
		which is more spiritually and physically balanced, which lives by two wings of science rather than a faith-based religion, the science of the objective phenomenon, which we have in our normal science, and the science of self-observation, which is a more meditative religious sense, which is more adept to the age of Aquarius, which we're just entering, which is a more science-based rather than faith-based era.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about a complete change in humanity, and I'm trying to figure out what really could trigger that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's about to start because we're actually a number of things are going to start happening, and they could happen as soon as right now, because right at this moment, at the 40th anniversary of the Six-Day War, there is a pattern in astrology, which is one of the things that Astridamus used a lot to plot a course of the future, or at least how future history repeats itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How important was astrology?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of a component in his predictions?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's very key because he used it to structure back in the 15th century, in the mid-1550s, when he started writing his History of the Future.
		He used astrology to interpret the movements and leaders and world, the destinies of nations.
		Because you see, with astrology, you can chart a nation as easily as you can chart an individual.
		And it is called mundane astrology or political astrology.
		And Nastradamus was a master of it.
		And it's one of the key elements in understanding his prophecies is to master this art in looking and plotting the courses of the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you beginning to use it yourself?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And since that has happened, since I've gained more, I believe, more understanding into it, and I think the documentation and my website, hopeprophecy.com, is a testament to it, that the accuracy of my work has increased exponentially,
		especially since the turn of the millennium, when I started to feel like I could get a Handle on how these patterns of repetition are expressed through the language and poetry of the stars.
		Astrology to me is not a science, it is a poetry.
		And the skill is really dependent on the intuition and sensitivity of the user.
		One person can use, for instance, a language like English to be Shakespeare, and another person can use the language and sound like an idiot.
		It's really a question of the soul and the consciousness and the sensitivity of the person using it.
		And over the years, I think one of the keys to understanding prophecy is to understand that it's a mirror image of the past repeated in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The past certainly has a habit of doing that, becoming the future.
		In other words, we go back and revisit and relive our mistakes.
		John Hoag is my guest.
		We're here at the bottom of the hour.
		So he used a lot of astrology, and the sense I get from John Hoag is that he's moving toward becoming a Nostradamus type himself.
		We'll be right back.
		Oh, it is very interesting.
		In the last several interviews with John Hoag, I've been getting the sense that he was moving from a great student of Nostradamus into the field himself.
		And it clearly would seem so.
		And I think he used the word out of the closet.
		I'm not sure where profits come from, but I think he's got more than one foot through the door.
		We'll be right back.
		So, John, I guess I should be asking what it is that you see.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's always the case that someone who interprets another prophet or prophecy or someone who even makes their own prophecies and then tries to interpret them is always not the person or the prophecy.
		It's how the individual who sees them or interprets them sees it.
		And then if it is documented, then one at the very least will find out what the perception of the person is who's doing it.
		And if there seems to be a timeline or a sense of certain motions in the future that the interpreter is successful with, then one runs with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, John, you live in a different day and age than Nostradamus did.
		You don't have to count it in quatrains or anything else.
		You can just come right out and tell us what it is you see.
		And you're on an international radio program right now, so it's going to be very well documented.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, there is the preamble.
		After my preamble, this is what I will say.
		We will have a war with Iran anytime between now through the summer.
		And it will most likely happen sooner than later, although certain things could delay it.
		The decisions are already being made.
		And the key to war or peace is in the hands of Israel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Israel.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And one would hope, as I'm trying to set together in this book, Nostradamus, the war with Iran, is that there are a number of prophecies that Nostradamus recorded that talk about
		Persia, which is Iran, talks about Mesopotamia, which is Iraq, and also the importance of what happens in a war that lasted six days and how it relates to...
		And it's a significant thing that we are speaking this very day, 40 years ago, was the sixth and final day of the Six-Day War, which is very significant, more so than the other wars that have been fought in recent times since 1948,
		because this was the war that defined the Messianic issues, kind of let them out of Pandora's box, if you will, to curse us and bring us as well hope that we can find a better solution.
		What I'm saying here is that when Israel took back the old city and reconquered the Temple Mount and the Wailing Wall, they also took back, which was not only the foundation of their temple, ancient Jewish temple,
		which is one of the key steps in prophecy for the final days of the appearance of the Jewish Messiah, but it also triggered messianic passions in Islam because it was considered the last step from this fascinating prophecy that I uncovered that was attributed in the hadith,
		which is the sayings of Muhammad that were made in the 7th century that are not in the Quran, the holy book of Islam, but are a number of sayings and observations that are actually many more words than the Quran itself that Muhammad had recorded.
		And in the prophecy, he talked about something that was quite chilling and surprising to me, something I never expected to hear.
		Basically, he starts the prophecy, to paraphrase it, with talking to a disciple about what the future of Islam would be.
		And remember, back in the 7th century, there were only a few thousand disciples at the time.
		And he was asked what would be the future of Islam.
		And he basically said, the number of believers will count equal to the foam of the sea.
		It's an interesting way of putting it because right now, in our present day, there are 1 billion people in the Ummah, which is the community of Islam, Shia, Sunni, and other sects that transcends the national borders of countries.
		It's all the people who are the faithful.
		But he said at that time, they would have discovered tremendous wealth, but certain Christian forces would use that wealth against them, and they would lose their, they would cling, be afraid of dying and cling to life and materialism.
		But he said that at a certain point, there would be Muslims who would not, who would, they would be often manipulated and used by the Christians to fight their wars, and then the Christians would turn around and say it was all their doing and not these people.
		They would even take them to the lands of snow-capped mountains and wooded forests to see peace treaties made.
		It almost sounds like what happened with Lawrence of Arabia in 1917, 1918, when what would be the first king of Iraq was brought to the Versailles treaties, to Europe, to the land of the snow-capped mountains and the forests, to see the Christian leaders kind of take credit for what they did to overthrow the Ottoman Empire.
		And then their lands were exploited and their wealth was exploited, just like Muhammad had predicted.
		But he says that things would turn around when there would be a new jihad, a jihad of the black flags, a sea of black flags that would first appear in Khurasan, which is a term for Greater Persia, which is usually used in ancient geography for Afghanistan.
		He said, from Afghanistan would come the holy warriors.
		They would first be seen there, and they would then march westward and eventually go all the way to Jerusalem.
		Now, prophecy, especially in the Middle East, is, unlike any other tradition, is very much politicized.
		All other traditions, it may or may not happen, but if you look at the great prophetic traditions coming from the Middle East, they have one significant tradition they share beyond all other traditions.
		They are into self-fulfillment.
		It's kind of the next step, which is the common adage that you hear in the Middle East, is that perception is the truth.
		And this also equates into their view of the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you believe that not only are those you're speaking of in the Middle East into self-fulfillment, you also believe that the Israeli leaders and our leaders here in the U.S. are also into self-fulfillment.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and the strange irony about this situation with Iran is that a circle is coming back to full circle.
		The place where apocalyptic end-time Armageddon battles were first conceived in religious thought, it was not in Judaism, but in ancient Zoroastrianism, in the lands of Persia.
		And there are many Jewish scholars that I've been in contact with that have made me aware of it since 1986 with my first book, that many of the things that are considered Jewish mysticism are actually dispensed from the Persians who liberated the Jews from Babylonia to go back after the captivity to rebuild Jerusalem and rebuild their kingdom.
		Many things were dispensed from the Persians that became amalgamated with Jewish mysticism.
		One of the key points was the idea of a final battle between good and evil, which is a Persian idea.
		And in a strange way, just as we see in industry that America was often the inventor of great ideas in industry that other countries in the East actually adapt better into higher forms, just like it's often been said America invents it, the Japanese perfect it.
		In the same way, the Persians created the concept of apocalypse and a final battle.
		Judaism, which is the mother religion of Christianity and Islam, perfected the concept.
		And now we're seeing a closing of the circle back to the source where Israel and Iran are at a hair's breadth from going to war.
		Israeli jets have been practicing flights from Tel Aviv or the region of Tel Aviv all the way to Gibraltar and back.
		It's about around 2,000 mile journey.
		And they've been training their pilots for a long distance attack, which may, that's the same distance it would take to go through the Gulf of Aqaba, down the Red Sea, make a circuit towards the east around the Arabian Peninsula in through the Strait of Hormuz to bomb Iraq, Natanz, and Isfahan, the three major centers of the Iranian nuclear program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wouldn't surprise me.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And another fascinating thing about this for me is that we have in predictive astrology a Saturn return taking place.
		Now, to make that in Laban's terms, it's like Saturn is the ruler of reality and karma.
		It's like action, reaction.
		Israel was born and forged in war.
		It was in the exact same aspects that we are having now with Saturn and Leo have returned again to the natal position as we speak.
		And with Mars, the planet that is the god of war in the astrological language, is now trined that Saturn conjunction or that Saturn transit.
		And what that means in layman's terms is If you look at that through history and the map of time, these aspects almost like clockwork are there when major wars happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so John, you see this unfolding beginning with an attack by Israel on the nuclear facilities of Iran.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		It used to be, the plan has been, and there's this prophecy in Nasr Damas about a great and terrible war, horrible war to be planned by the West.
		And there's certainly a number of things, and I go in detail about this in the book, Nasrdamas, The War with Iran, that if you take a timeline of all the things that have been uncovered with the Bush administration and Ariel Sharon's administration,
		Israel, and the plans that have been set forth to prepare their nations for war with Iran, that in fact, if you go all the way back to the first neoconservative manifestos of 1992, which were also edited by Paul Wolfowitz and Vice President Dick Cheney, they were already looking at the idea of a regime change in two acts, Iraq and Iran, acts one and two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you know, I can kind of see that, John.
		What I don't see is how an Israeli attack on Iran, even with a link and a nod or more from the U.S., would become transformed into Armageddon.
		With the current geopolitical situation in the world, how does that happen, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's see.
		There are several scenarios that are in the prophecies.
		One is Iran hits back with its supersonic missiles that would be fired in a very small region that no one has ever seen used before.
		In the case of we have the U.S. Navy putting two major supercarrier units, fleets, into an area the size that's smaller than the Adriatic Sea.
		It is usually a deepwater Navy, has a 200-mile radius so they can do over-the-horizon counterattacks with its counter-missile system.
		This is literally going to be thrusts coming up within 60 miles, 70 miles with Yakons and other Russian missiles codenamed Suddenburn and Mosquito that can ride the water at 9 feet at Mach 2.
		And the Iranians also have hundreds of ECOSET missiles, which just I think Argentina during the Falklands War had in 1982 had five in their entire arsenal, of which they sank two major units of the Royal Navy, and they were shot piecemeal.
		No one knows what will happen when hundreds of them are shot in a tight area of the Persian Gulf Strait of Hormuz, where it is narrow enough in the Strait of Hormuz for artillery to actually take pot shots at U.S. naval units.
		Now, what we have here is a repetition of history that reminds me very much of 1914, August 1914.
		You have a kind of military thinking that is dominating the U.S. Navy that is Cold War in its nature.
		In theory, no one has ever seen anti-missile ship combat in real warfare conditions.
		There's never really been in history a Navy system that had to fight off swarms of missiles.
		And just like no one knew what the machine gun would do in the first stages of 1914 in World War I, some people had theories that it would force everybody to dig in and be in a static front.
		Other people believed the war would be over by Christmas and it would be some variation of Napoleonic glory.
		But the problem is that our technology, untested, is now again in the repetition of history before us in a future war.
		No one really knows what is going to remain theory and what's going to remain reality.
		Now, if you have a situation where the U.S. Navy is suddenly overwhelmed by too many targets and through the attrition of missile attacks, on top of that, supersonic missile attacks, from a fleet of Iranian submarines that the Kilo-class attack submarines that were built by the Russians, there's three of them at least.
		You could see U.S. carriers like fish in a barrel trying, not being able to hit and take down every missile that comes.
		You also see a situation, another scenario is that Iran doesn't do anything if they're attacked, and they play the martyr.
		And this becomes the Pearl Harbor, the attack, the air attack on Iran becomes the Pearl Harbor for the Islamic world.
		And then one out of six people on the planet are against the West.
		That actually creates the very thing that a lot of people are trying to avoid, a war.
		As you and I talked before, you once asked me, I think, in the last show we did last year, is this really a war of cultures and religions?
		Is this a religious world war?
		And I said back then, yes, that is the danger.
		That is what's lurking before us.
		If intemperate minds, guided unconsciously by messianic fevers, move forward in faith rather than fact about what needs to be done.
		The thing that I find very disturbing is that for the first time in my life, the contacts that I have with the intelligence that's coming to Mossad seems to be the Israeli intelligence, seems to be propagating a war rather than reporting objectively.
		When you have such a wide variance of beliefs about what Iran can do, some outside of Mossad, they don't believe Iran can even paint watches to glow with radiation, let alone build atomic bombs for another 10 years.
		But then you get statements being made through Mossad that they are able to build a crude nuclear bomb that they could put into a civilian jet and land in Tel Aviv and cause a great terrorist event.
		That's a very wide variance of belief in what's happening.
		So it says to me that there's a lot of passion running here.
		In fact, I look at the astrology and the predictive political astrology involved, and what I see in that stellar language is people are in their emotions and their intolerance right now because of this bellicose time rather than reason.
		And that's when wars start.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John.
		Hold it right there.
		So John foresees a coming war with Iran to be started by Israel.
		Entirely possible.
		Israel certainly wants those nuclear facilities gone, no matter what the stage of development.
		They want them out of there as they did previously.
		And one can certainly imagine, can't one, an attack.
		We'll be right back.
		Don't bring me down indeed.
		And that's some of what this will do if you're listening carefully.
		John Hoag is saying in clear language, sometime, I mean, this is already June.
		So sometime between now and summer, that's not very far, there's going to be a war with Iran initiated by Israel and then probably widening from that point to what he's calling Armageddon.
		Now, I can clearly see how U.S. naval forces might get involved in just exactly the kind of scenario he talked about.
		What I don't necessarily see is how this would turn into, and there's good reason to fear it, some kind of gigantic war between the West and Islam.
		That's one thing nobody wants.
		Our own president has been very, very careful to delineate between Islamic extremism and the greater Islamic world in almost every statement he's made from 9-11 forward to this very moment.
		He's been very, very careful about that, and for good reason.
		Nobody wants that war, and I've a feeling that's what John Hoag says is coming.
		We'll be right back.
		John, to some in the audience, it almost sounds like you're rooting for this to happen.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, no.
		No.
		This is like Joseph interpreting Pharaoh's dream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me read you what somebody said.
		Ross in Savannah, Georgia.
		All right?
		This guy, you, sounds like he'd rather see Iran and the middle Eastern enemies of our nation win the day and destroy the Jewish state like they've said all along they would.
		He's very near saying it.
		Why don't you ask him whose side he's on, please?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm on the side of intelligence.
		I'm on the side of love and tolerance.
		I'm on the side that says never again is not now.
		Never again is not now.
		That means that there may come a time, as there was 40 years ago, when Israel had to preempt war and were right to do so, to stop their annihilation.
		We are in something that I've talked about before on your show.
		It's a karmic echo.
		I've talked mostly about how America is in a karmic echo.
		But tonight I'd like to talk about how Israel is also in a similar karmic echo to what happened exactly 40 years ago when they won the Six-Day War, when they preempted a war and prevented them being marched into the sea by Nasser, Syria, Jordan, and a number of other Arab forces and contingents, including Iraq.
		Now, that was timed right and was a good thing to do.
		But in this echo, it's timed wrongly.
		There isn't a second Holocaust yet.
		But if precipitous and intolerant actions should create war, it will create the circumstances for a second Holocaust to happen.
		And that is why this is such a pivotal time.
		I am speaking with the hopes of no war happening to anyone.
		The side that I'm on, I'm on the side of love and peace.
		And I'm also on the side of knowing when it's the right time to fight wars and when it's the wrong time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me ask you this, John.
		You gave us the range of possibilities for Iran with regard to their nuclear progress.
		That's the range.
		How far along do you think they probably are?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Probably not even that far.
		when I tune into it, they're having all kinds of problems with their centrifuges.
		This, this is why they are, They are not succeeding in fulfilling the domestic needs of Iranians.
		They are also in a situation that has to be addressed is that they may actually be seeking nuclear civilian reactors because Iran is past peak in its oil production.
		In the time that it's going to take them to build an alternative energy source like nuclear power in the next 10 to 15 years that can run the country, by that time, Iran might not be exporting enough oil To survive economically.
		It's a factor that is involved in it.
		That doesn't mean they aren't going to do exactly what Israel did back in 1956 with their own reactors.
		Of course.
		And why not?
		I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there's their rhetoric.
		I mean, listen to what they're saying, John.
		They're making every bit of noise they can, throwing out anybody who would inspect, saying they're going as fast as they can.
		So whatever the reality is, perhaps it is as you say, and they're hardly anywhere at all, but they're making claims that would cause a lot of nerves in Israel to be on edge.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's true.
		And yet, what I also find shocking is some of the statements that are being made by leaders in response.
		It was a recent BBC documentary where you can watch verbatim the Prime Minister of Israel and the potential future Prime Minister of Israel, Netanyahu, basically saying rather irrational things that are equally as irrational as Ahmed Dinijad's wipe Israel off the face of the map, which is, you know, sometimes people argue with me that that's not exactly what Ahmed Dinejad said.
		I want to make it clear that Ahmed Dinejad was not speaking from his own original thinking.
		He was quoting Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Revolution, the first supreme leader.
		And, you know, if one has lived in the Near East and the Far East, one understands that people say things between the lines.
		And clearly, I think Israel was right to be alarmed by what he was saying, even though verbatim he didn't actually say in Farsi that.
		It's the implication.
		And the fact that he was quoting Khomeini, who constantly thought Israel should be wiped off the map, it's definitely a difficult thing.
		But you know, what happened several years before Ahmed Dinejad said that was Benjamin Netanyahu made it very clear that if he was ever re-elected as Prime Minister of Israel, the first thing he'd do would be to strike Iran.
		So what I'm saying is that there is irrational statements being made by both sides.
		We tend to ignore the fact that Israeli leadership is also saying things, and we also seem to ignore the fact that the biggest open secret in the Middle East is that Israel has upwards to 200 to 500 nuclear bombs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They certainly do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Neutron bombs, including suitcase bombs and thermal bombs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure they do.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And I am not in support of nuclear weapons being there, but you have in any country in that region because it's just creating a power imbalance and a fear factor.
		In a way, Israel is making the same mistake we made in the beginning of the Cold War.
		When there was no arms race, we made several hundred nuclear weapons before Russia could even build one and created the circumstance where someone has to catch up.
		We could have very easily said we only have one or two, and if we find out somebody else makes one or two, we'll make one or two more because we don't want to create a runaway arms race.
		But what we did in our own fears and needs to be protected was probably create a problem rather than avoid a problem.
		We created an arms race.
		Israel is doing the same thing since 1956.
		One of the reasons why, you know, when you have the only weapons of mass destruction, like nuclear weapons, in a region, you tend to do more aggressive things because you can get away with it.
		For instance, I don't think Israel would have struck Iraq's nuclear installation of Osirak if they knew that Saddam Hussein would not counterattack because Saddam Hussein knew they probably had a few atomic weapons already.
		The other thing that's very dangerous about this brinksmanship is that people are believing that in Israeli sources that Iran will never strike back with its regional ballistic missiles, even if they're tipped with chemical weapons, because of the fear that Israel would then counterattack.
		And here's your Armageddon situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's almost a certainty.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		With atomic weapons.
		Almost a certainty.
		But underneath all that, when I try to explain, I do a lot of background explanation to these.
		Like in a radio show, I'm giving you kind of the point of the spear, which is the way it has to be in this idiom.
		But in the book, I spend 70,000 words of history and tying in prophecy to see how we kind of potentially can get to this future and how we can undermine it from happening.
		I'm definitely feeling like this book is my version, if you will, of trying to rightly interpret Pharaoh's dream to prevent a problem.
		It's a little bit like Joseph was asked to interpret the Pharaoh's dreams about a coming apocalyptic time.
		He interpreted that there was some dry droughts coming, that the grain should be...
		And the first thing that I think incumbent upon people who are involved in the prophecy is to risk the calumny that they get from putting these things out.
		And after it's on the table, let's change it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's talk about your prophecy with regard to Iran.
		How it's very short term.
		You're talking about this summer.
		Very soon.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's clarify something on that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It could happen as soon as this summer, but it could also be delayed into 2008.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's still short term.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's still short term because then the next time that it comes again, these same aspects, these same rare astrological aspects that Nostradamus uses in his talk about these things, they don't come again till 2015, 2016.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How sure, John, is this prophecy?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's an understandable question, but perhaps not the right question.
		The question is, how willfully are we to self-fulfill this potential prophecy by not being aware of things we're doing to step into this abyss?
		And what is incumbent upon people who see the future to make us aware of how we're stepping into a place we don't need to go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I'm asking how sure prophecy is in general.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, even if you want to move away from the Zaran question, how sure is prophecy?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, first off, prophecy is not written in stone.
		Okay.
		But people are very stony in the way they repeat things, and it appears often that prophecy is written in stone because people, we are essentially, it's a subject of conditioning.
		People are born into certain societies to accept certain ideas of religion, social, moral concepts.
		And interspersed with that conditioning regimen of identifying with the society, your name, your background, your God, and the way you look at it, are a number of habits that have got more noble names like traditions that are kind of pre-programming people en masse to do things that precipitate predictable
		events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, John, do you believe that Iran is currently, that the leadership of Iran is willing to make that nation a martyr to tip off a wider war between Islam and the West?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I'll explain why now it is Ahmed Dinijan and the Ayatollahs who are running that country believe that the 12th Imam is returning.
		This is a messianic figure that is, they see the world around them right now as one of the reasons why they're being so arrogant and contentious is that what's motivating a lot of that, which the mainstream press is not getting into, unfortunately, is a messianic fever that's starting to whip up with the leadership of Iran.
		And it's also involved very much in the leadership of Arab Shias in Iraq.
		You know, Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi army, very few mainstream press will tell you why he calls this army militia that consists of up to 160,000 potential militiamen trained and armed by Iran.
		They're called that because the Mahdi, which is the 12th Imam, is supposed to be a figure that disappeared.
		He didn't die.
		And he disappeared around where they currently built the Samara Golden Mosque.
		So when it was blown up, that was a statement.
		That's what triggered the civil war.
		Because the idea is that this army, and if people would actually listen to what Muqtada al-Sadr is saying in the mosques, he's often coming back to the point of, I'm here building this army because the 12th Imam is going to reappear and lead this army to Jerusalem.
		And that even Ahmed Dinijad, the more dangerous statement that Ahmed Dinijad has said beyond what he said against Israel is that, you know, he believed that he was bathed in a white light when he was talking to the United Nations and that some kind of holy force was over him when he made his statements.
		He has made statements that he believes the imminent return of the Mahdi is coming.
		And it's kind of like a second coming syndrome that you see in the other religions in the same region.
		You have also, I've been in contact with Kabbalist mystics in Jerusalem through contacts here in America.
		And since 10 years ago, I've been told that they believed that the window in time when the Israeli or the Jewish Messiah would appear was somewhere around 2006 to 2060.
		That was back in 1995, 1996 when I was first informed of this.
		So, you know, it is a fact that mainstream news does not want to look at is that in 1997, the cornerstone to the new temple was set on the Temple Mount.
		It is a fact that in Israel now, there are families that are giving birth to future Kohim, to priests of that future temple, who do not set foot on the earth.
		They live above ground their whole lives because the earth is considered impure.
		There are stories that are documented that people are trying to genetically create the red heifers that were used in the sacred sacrifices and the holy rites of the temple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And so in this book, Nasrdamos, the war with Iran, I want to bring the context of the messianic shadow that's going, that's motivating this collision that's coming.
		And gets back to what I first started saying to you in the first hour is as I wrote this book, in fact, I confess in the book about this.
		I say, every time I enter another line in this book, my own conscious self is saying, this cannot happen.
		This is crazy.
		How can this happen?
		A war that nobody wants, that everybody's falling into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure, John, that even if Iran martyred itself, the Islamic world would be set off by it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, even if Iran doesn't counterattack and are attacked by Israel or by America or both, that's one scenario.
		The other scenario is that they mean exactly what they will say, and 60,000 suicide bombers will be let loose in Iraq against our forces, that the Shahab missiles and Scud-2s will come raining down on Saudi Arabian ports,
		the Strait of Hormuz will be cut off, the U.S. and the world suddenly doesn't have half of its oil resources, that Hugo Chavez, which is beating Ahmed Dinajad, will boycott and stop pumping 16% of our imports into America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, John, for what you say to be true, a very great deal more of Islam has got to be radicalized than the Western world and the Western press has reported.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In the poor streets of Islam, yes.
		It is a powder keg.
		It is a powder keg that's much bigger than that has been, especially if the perception is that we are going after Islamic nations if Israel attacks Iran.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got to hold it right there.
		What a breakpoint.
		John Hoog is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell.
		We'll be right back.
		Certainly is true that time after time, history really does have a way of repeating itself, doesn't it?
		Timothy in Las Vegas, Nevada, says he just heard on a news break that the U.S. has authorized military force against Iran along the border of Iraq.
		Now, I'm not privy to the news breaks on this side of the mic, but he finishes off by saying the prophecy starting, perhaps?
		I don't know.
		John Hoag will be right back.
		In a way, Iraq martyred itself.
		I mean, if you think about the run-up to the war, the bluster, the things that were said, our defective intelligence aside for a moment, the bluster that they did, they virtually martyred themselves.
		I mean, what it really came right down to, when we decided to attack, we rolled over them like there was no tomorrow.
		There was no chemical retaliation.
		There was no nuclear retaliation.
		There was no biological attack to speak of.
		There was really nothing.
		I mean, we rolled in, and that was that.
		Of course, it's not like that.
		We're now facing daily martyrdom and suicide attacks and all the rest of that sort of thing.
		So it's turned into a quagmire.
		There's no question about that.
		But in a sense, if you think about it, Iraq did martyr itself.
		And you think that Iran is about to do the same thing, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It comes from an issue of which I, in the book, go back into the whole history of the great schism that took place in Islam in its early stages, when the majority followed what is called the Sunnah, the way, and became the Sunnis.
		And another minority group followed the fourth caliph, kind of the Pope of Islam.
		It's the closest comparison to a Christian metaphor, who was named Ali, who was the grandson of Muhammad.
		He was a blood relative of Muhammad.
		And one of the key differences between the Shia and the Sunni, and the Shia is kind of an Arabic abbreviation for those who are with Ali.
		And they believe that the direct bloodline, it's almost like the holy blood of the Grail in an Islamic context, that the direct bloodline of the caliph who was Imam Ali is more important, more true to the religion,
		whereas there's a little more liberal look at who can be the caliph or the clerics who are advisory in the Sunni religion sect of Islam more than, and it's more theocratic in the Shia.
		Now, the Shia sect was born out of the martyrdom of its founding leaders.
		Ali, when he had to move the caliphate from Arabia, put it in Iraq.
		And at prayers during Ramadan, he was hit with a blow of a poisoned sword and became a martyr.
		His son, both his sons, were also martyred, Hussein and Hassan.
		And they are worshipped and venerated in Iraq and Iran, where the majority of Shias live.
		I'm having to make quick assessments on radio where I take thousands of words to express this in history, but a view that is out there, one could say that Shia are viewed by the majority like untouchables are viewed in Hindu religion as a second class people.
		So you have a culture within the larger culture of Islam that sees itself as downtrodden, viewed and persecuted as second class, and martyred.
		So you're dealing with a culture that is wrestling with its martyr complex.
		Conversely, you are also dealing in Israel with a people who have also been martyred in the Holocaust and traumatized as a culture, as a race, as a nation, into a feeling of trying to anticipate through that repetition of trauma.
		And it's very possible that they're anticipating a threat that's really not there yet.
		It could be there in a few years, but it's not now.
		And so what often happens is that a person who has been abused can, in fear of a post-traumatic incident as a whole be an abuser.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be.
		It could happen.
		And they preempted once, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them preempt again.
		And is that what Iran wants?
		They want to become a martyr nation?
		Now, think back to the Cold War, John.
		As imbalanced as it was, you described that.
		What stopped the world from being destroyed at the end of the Cold War?
		What stopped it from turning hot?
		The answer, neither side was suicidal.
unidentified		Yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it was not faith-based.
		It was politically and economically based.
		There was a lot.
		It wasn't like a religion.
		It didn't have a religious quality in it.
		It ended up being a showdown between ideologies and economies.
		But this is about God told me to do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, communism tried to be a replacement for religion.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It did, but if it truly could have been, it'd still be there, flourishing.
		But then you have somebody who is the most powerful man in the world saying to Hafez, reported in Israeli newspapers, talking to Mahmoud Abbas, who later became the president of the Palestinian Authority, basically saying, God told me to strike Iran and I struck him.
		This is our president saying that God told him to do these things.
		God told him to strike Iraq.
		One wonders then, beyond one's political persuasion, one has to wonder, and when you look at the dearth of information that shows a very comprehensive long-term preparation for a war also with Iran, that obviously God's telling him to hit Iran too, as much as God's telling Ahmed Dinejad that the 12th Imam is coming, as God is telling the Prime Minister of Israel that the Immanuel the Messiah is coming.
		And in these three messianic equations is this headlong disaster that hopefully talking about this on an international show, starting a debate.
		I know a lot of people are listening that are involved in this process or listening to this show tonight.
		Maybe something can be done to stop this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm listening with great interest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you saying that the U.S. president, our president, George Bush, said that God told him to strike Iraq?
unidentified		Yep.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Witnesses there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When was that said?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He said that a month, it was the June, I believe, of 2003, a month after mission accomplished.
		He went to Sharm el-Sheikh to try to sort out the roadmap to peace between Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas, who was the head of the Palestinian Authority.
		I think he was the prime minister then.
		And this is a resort in the Sinai coast in the Gulf of Aqaba where they were trying to sort out their problems.
		And the story goes that Abbas had come to him saying that I was able to get the other factions to talk with Fatah, his group, that means Islamic Jihad and Hamas, were open now to talking about uniting together to discuss peace.
		And the witnesses said that George Bush exploded, saying, we don't want to talk to terrorists.
		You know, we're not going to talk to them.
		And Abad...
		And Abbas, taken aback, recovered and said, but these are our brothers.
		They are our people.
		We have to talk to them.
		We can't just cut them out of the negotiation.
		For better or worse, they're part of this problem and the solution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see that, yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And basically, after some wrangling back and forth, Bush got Abbas to say, well, okay, I'll only talk to them as the first step for them disarming, which is understandable.
		And then he suddenly leaned in at the end of the meeting and started saying, I can find the exact quote for you.
		Please do.
		And it is he basically, as I'm speaking, I'm going to look for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't sound like something a U.S. president would say.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was very shocking to hear him say it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I must say, when I saw it, I'm going to search for it in the book so I can give you the exact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, please do.
		And who reported it?
		Where can I look this up?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Hafnes, the Israeli newspaper.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And I'm looking for it now.
unidentified		Okay.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it must be in the next chapter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not everything that's written in a newspaper in Israel or here or anywhere else is necessarily true.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's true, but you have a leader of the Palestinian people.
		You had witnesses.
		And it wasn't just him and the other man in a closed room.
		It was stated in public, and he said these things.
		I'm still looking for it, so we just keep talking about some other things while I'm looking for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, that would indicate a mindset at the top of the U.S. government that is pretty unbelievable.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's pretty shocking.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I was basically sad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what, just don't look for it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look for it at the top of the hour.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I will have it by the top of the hour, and I'll speak it verbatim and the sources that you can all check.
		It's been kind of bandied around for years now.
		It's amazing how these things, though, don't get reported here in America.
		We are in such a censorship situation these days.
		In all my life, I've never seen this kind of selective amnesia, selective ignorance of things.
		And then things that seem completely irrelevant to our lives become things drummed into us like what's happening to Paris Hilton or Anna Nicole Smith or hell cares.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm so sick of that stuff.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There's 230,000 Turkish soldiers that have been on the border with Kurdistan since May.
		And right as we speak, they are shelling back and forth on the border, about to go in to fight 4,000 PKP Kurdish rebels.
		We have a situation there that alone could be the tripwire to a number of things escalating.
		And it's happening right now, and we're worried about whether Paris Hilton is seeing her shrink in the jail or not.
		Something that directly impact the area where all our fossil fuels, the majority of them come, and affect and impact everybody's life in the world if this thing should go unraveling control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course it would.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the thing is, before the break, when I'll find that quote, the one thing that a lot of us would probably remember is the 60 Minutes interview that George Bush, our president, gave, where he was asked, do you talk to your father, the former president, about things?
		And he said, I talk to a higher father.
		I get my advice from a higher father.
		So even in national U.S. TV, the president made it clear that he talks to God and gets messages from God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		There's kind of a line between the two.
		To me, there is.
		I mean, many of us say, I rely on God, you know, in sort of a general sense.
		But to lean over and say, God told me to attack Iraq is in a different world.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And when I find that quote, you're all going to find it quite shocking.
		It's one of those Murphy's Law things I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, should it be true, it would indicate a kind of messianic complex, not just there, but here as well, which almost makes it a cinch deal if that was true.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And the other thing that's quite remarkable, too, is that a number of people working in the Oval Office are from Pat Robertson's University, which is following a certain messianic agenda that I also look at in the book,
		that wants to convert the government and the power centers since the early 1980s into something that they view as Bible-centric to the way they interpret Christianity.
		And it sounds very similar to me to what is happening in other theocratic movements in Iran and Israel that are trying to gain influence over the political, secular governments of those regions.
		And that we can also talk about at the turn of the hour and get you that information if you want to talk about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That cyclone that just hit the Strait of Oman, was it some sort of omen?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, one wonders.
		You know, it certainly felt like that to me.
		It hasn't happened in 60 years and never that strong.
		And it caused an amazing amount of damage on the coast of Oman.
		It must have been an interesting time for the U.S. Navy to have all those assets just going through the Strait.
		They must have, if they wanted to come out, they had to stay in the Persian Gulf.
		The other thing that's not been reported is with the kind of perspective that it's having over there in the region is that for the U.S. Navy to come in with nine major units and unannounced, not even telling Iran that it's coming and go through the Strait of Hormuz in a huge armada like that is quite significant.
		Also, it's quite significant that the main naval base in the Persian Gulf on land is in Bahrain.
		They have just undergone a major rehearsal that hasn't been seen since just before the invasion of Iraq, kind of preparing for all kinds of contingencies.
		Some 2,000 Marines were involved in a rehearsal in Kuwait that was a rehearsal for fixing oil fields that would be bombed by missiles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the administration, do you think the administration feels it cannot succeed in Iraq, ultimately, without dealing with Iran?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Like I said before, since 1992, this has been, in the neoconservative manifesto, a two-act regime change plan.
		They've gone forward with Act 1.
		They have 18 months to go forward with Act II, which is Iran.
		It is a, as this administration becomes more a lame-duck administration, it is generating a much more feverish pace of planning in Israel in a Plan B, which is if America,
		before America leaves the region or is withdrawn by a Democrat president and a Democrat Congress in 2008, they're running out of time to hit Iran and hit them hard and prevent them for years to recover a nuclear program.
		So there are deadlines and openings for certain aggressive action that has to happen between now and sometime at the very latest next year before a new regime is in America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but I think I disagree that hitting Iran, no matter who does it, Israel or the U.S. or both, Would necessarily provoke essentially Armageddon a war between Islam and the West.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that I buy that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope you're right because here's the situation that could happen: Israel strikes Iran with the assumption that Iran will not respond with hundreds of missiles hitting Israel with chemical weapons and biological weapons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they make that assumption?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not, in my opinion, it's not a sane assumption because they're thinking that Iran, which has a martyr complex with the Shia problem, might be too afraid to hit Israel when Israel can attack with some hundred of its own atomic weapons.
		And so there you have a situation where what if Iran doesn't choke?
		And what if Iran fights back and launches its missiles not only on Israel, but drops them on the Arab Saudi Arabian oil fields, the Saudi Arabian fuel stations?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of that is possible.
		John, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour, so see if you can find that quote, particularly the one with George Bush telling him God told him to attack Iraq.
		All right, John Hoag is my guest.
		My guess is you've got some questions for John Hoag.
		That's coming up.
		Here I am.
		All right.
		John Hoague didn't pull that from some unknown orifice quote.
		It is here and there.
		I've got something in front of me that says BBC press releases.
		God told me to invade Iraq.
		Bush tells Palestinian ministers.
		President George W. Bush told Palestinian ministers that God told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and create a Palestinian state.
		A new BBC series reveals.
		And it goes on and on, but apparently this quote is known elsewhere.
		So perhaps so.
		In a moment, we're going to open the phone lines.
		I've certainly come a very long way with John Hoag, and we didn't get through a lot of the interview material because what he had to say about Iraq, pardon me, Iran, stopped me.
		And I'm sure many of you, cold, will be back in a moment.
		It's very interesting.
		I get, as you know, fast blasts where people are able to say what they're unwilling to say on the phone, you know, because that's kind of like person-to-person.
		They're just unwilling to say it.
		So they'll type it.
		They'll definitely type it.
		They'll say things on a computer that they would never, never, never say in person or even on a phone.
		And one week I'm a Bush lover.
		The next week, I'm a Bush hater.
		It seems to depend on the topic.
		And actually, as far as President Bush is concerned, I don't think he's nearly as bad as those who hate him.
		And I don't think he's nearly as good as those who supported and elected him in the first place.
		So I'm really neither one.
		I certainly don't hate George Bush, nor am I in love with George Bush.
		John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't either.
		And I get that you're not alone with that.
		I get it's kind of the kind of hidden joke and occupational hazard of prophecy is that unfortunately, if you're going to predict about world events, you cannot avoid political issues when you're making prophecies.
		And the thing is that I've been often telling a lot of people who, you know, I'm a former Republican before I became an Independent.
		Right now, the last few years, because a Republican has been in power, I'm getting all these people saying, oh, you're such a Bush hater and you're such a liberal and all that.
unidentified		I just say, you just wait.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		You just wait until there's a new Clinton administration in 2008.
		And then all you people who think that I'm a Democrat and a liberal are all going to say, oh, you've just lost your way and you're anti-liberal and you're, you know, this and that.
		And I just sit here sometimes shaking my head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you prophesizing a new Clinton administration?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I have, I said, I announced it the first time on national TV on The View on October 30th, 1998, that Hillary Clinton the following month would become a senator of New York and in 2008 would run as president and win.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That's documented.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you stand by that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		And I won't vote for her, but I know this is going to happen.
		That's just I just put it on the record and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
		But it just feels that that's one of those strange, just very clear visions.
		And I don't understand it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for a lot of the audience out there, that's more worrisome than Armageddon.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		The thing is that she's also in a karmic echo.
		She's the answer, karmically, to Nixon.
		And it's funny how a lot of stuff that she's not really that popular in a lot of ways people look upon Hillary as a president like they looked at Nixon in 1967, 40 years ago, as what, Nixon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to reach out and predict the vice president?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I did make a statement several months ago in a Hogue Prophecy bulletin, which is archived on my website, Hogprophey.com, that said that Barack Obama will be offered a chance to be vice president.
		If he takes It, he has a chance to become a president in the future.
		But he will not be a president in 2008.
		And if he doesn't take it, he'll never be president.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think he okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think he, well, do you think he'll take it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm in the article, I said there's two, if he's mature, if he listens to his maturity, he will.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But if he listens to his ego, he'll never be a president.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild card line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hey, Art, this is Treetop.
		I'm calling for Mannaheim.
		I'm a truck driver.
		Okay.
		I hope he's wrong about the Hillary prediction.
		I told you they wouldn't.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Vote for Greenberg for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, go ahead.
unidentified		Anyway, I heard a while back on the show.
		I forget who the guest was.
		It may have been the guest tonight who talking about Iran had these Soviet missiles that they could annihilate our Navy.
		These missiles could be launched from Iran, and they travel erratically, and there's no way we could stop them before they got to our fleet.
		I just wanted to ask about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have done so, and yes, it was referred to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, John.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are the code-named NATO names, the Sunburn and the Mosquito, and they're about 25 feet long, large missiles, like a cruise missile, that Iran started buying them around 2001.
		They also started buying a slightly smaller but faster carrier-oriented targeting missile called the Yakons.
		It's so new it doesn't even have a NATO designation yet.
		And, you know, in the case of the Mosquito, it can travel 200 miles in less than two minutes.
		And it does do its terminal velocity as a countermeasure to ram rotating missile defense systems that have been the new system along with the Sea Sparrow that are kind of superseding the Gatling guns called the Phalanx series.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you're saying the Phalanx or the...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		These missiles are actually...
		Actually, they're affectionately called R2-D2 because they look like the domed robots.
		They do, yeah.
		They shoot something like 4,000 DU depleted uranium rounds a minute if they were let loose to do so.
		And they usually can shoot down something coming within the envelope of five miles.
		So it's pretty dramatic.
		But these other missiles, these rotating missiles that are shot in batteries of four are also very good at knocking down missiles.
		But again, it's the question of, in theory, when it's all we have, nobody's actually gone to war with swarm missile attacks.
		In theory, probably you could shoot them down, but the whole idea is they've got a whole lot of them, these missiles, and they also can launch them from their submarines.
		Iran has also been stockpiling a new mine that sits at the bottom of the ocean and then is triggered by a rocket to shoot up at 70 miles an hour to break the keel of a carrier from the bottom of the sea.
		These systems are born out of a superpower that lost the Cold War.
		You know, one of the curses of winning is that you think your old think doesn't need to be changed because you've won a war.
		It makes sense.
		Why should I change my thinking?
		And that's kind of the strange curse of winning is that you don't adapt.
		Whereas if you lose, like the Soviet Union did, the survivors of that started creating instruments to counter the victorious strategies of the Americans in ways that the American military has not really compensated for or adapted to.
		And unfortunately, we have one of those situations where we may get a very shocking surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no question.
		The Soviet arsenals opened up and went around the world.
		I mean, there's simply no question about it.
		John in Seattle, you're on with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		My name is John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And I wanted to ask Mr. Hoag, and this is nothing to do with international events per se.
		It's something to do personally with me, where I was contacted last winter by an intermediary between the last lineage of the Nostradamus family and me personally, being that I was part of a group of 1,350 people to receive a piece of a meteorite or a comet that came down in the year 1566.
		And we are apparently a chosen group of people to go through the very turbulent times ahead.
		And what I want to ask, Mr. Hogue, is this falsehood or is it true?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's false.
		Nostradamus' family died out in the 1700s.
		So there's no relations.
		People who say they're related to the Nostradamus family is at this stage or a couple hundred years removed from the bloodline dying out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mark in Florence, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your turn with John Hoag.
mark in oregon ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art and John.
		Hi.
		Hi.
		I'm listening to you, Art, I believe, on three different channels, but one of them is Otto Reno.
		I believe it's KOH.
		KOH, yes.
		That's closest to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
mark in oregon ▲ ● ▼		Art, thank you both, you and John, for the excellence in broadcasting.
		I mean, not a dull moment tonight.
		This has just been a fantastic, I've never heard a better show, a more relevant show.
		I've got just a short statement to preface two quick questions.
		And John, you had mentioned policy protocol documents involving Cheney and Rumsfeld, circa 1992.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
mark in oregon ▲ ● ▼		About five years later, these two were also highly involved with the think tank, which wrote the project for a new American Century document.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		That is well in my book.
mark in oregon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		It also explicitly calls for the invasion of Iran as well as Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon.
		It would certainly seem likely that sooner rather than later, there would be a massive and united retaliation and preemptive war, possibly, directly against the United States.
		In light of this possible, if not probable, scenario of this country's near future history, my first question is, John, have you heard of a fellow prophet named Dmitri Dudeman?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
mark in oregon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was severely tortured for smuggling Bibles across the Iron Curtain.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is he Ukrainian?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Is he Ukrainian?
mark in oregon ▲ ● ▼		I believe right in that area of the country of – He's referred to as a smuggler also in certain circles.
		And he, after a year's torture, after he got caught smuggling Bibles across the Iron Curtain, he came to the United States and began having what he described as visits from the Archangel Gabriel.
		And in one vision that he was shown, the Archangel Gabriel took him above the earth and showed him the part of it that the United States lied upon.
		And he saw a nuclear, first there was a, he saw radio towers and the signals stopped in the radio towers and he took that symbolically to mean all communications.
		And then he saw nuclear clouds on various parts of the continent, or the United States here.
		And also, I've always understood that George Washington had this same vision and wrote about it in his memoirs.
		And I wanted to ask you if you've seen anything that could be possibly interpreted, I know you're such an expert on Nostradamus, as far as the United States coming under a massive destruction sometime in the future.
		And God bless you both, and thank you for your great humanitarian service, both you guys.
		Y'all are just great, Art and John.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Mark, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything indicating our total destruction?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but as a threat that can be averted if it is heated.
		And it's been something we've talked about even back in 1994 that the clash between what are called in Nostradamus the Aquilinares, basically that means two northern nations that have eagles as their symbol.
		That was not relevant during the Cold War because Russia did not have an eagle as a symbol, but a hammer and sickle and a red flag.
		We had the American eagle, of course, but now Russia's got the double-headed eagle as its symbol, now that it's no longer communist.
		And the collective prophetic visions, not only of Nostradamus but others, seem to indicate that only after Russia and America become friends or try to become friends, the great northern brothers of the north,
		as Nostradamus says, who are not yet brothers, when they try to do that, that's when the danger of them going to war because of a Barbari or North African or Middle Eastern source that undermines their friendship creates between 3 to 13 years a war between those two northern eagle powers.
		And so with everything that's in Nostradamus, it's not supposed to happen.
		He was kind of a Hector or a Jeremiah of 16th century prophets.
		He was always looking at the worst case scenarios to kind of scare us straight, on a straight and better path towards peace and understanding rather than reaction war.
		And where one starts to count these three to 13 years, he doesn't give a date to that.
		So it behooves us to see when the danger point arises where Russia and America resume a cold peace or a cold war.
		And this last Week we had a little brush with that.
		Fortunately, it backed off with the problem of ABM systems being placed in Poland ostensibly to stop missiles from Iran.
		Russians feel threatened that they're there against Russia, so they start thinking about doing what's, you know, there was a prophet named Stormberger, a German prophet from the 1700s, who said there'd be three world wars.
		And this is the prophet who actually dated World War I by describing an iron horse track that would be created for some iron horse between these two towns in eastern Bavaria.
		And when the day that was built and inaugurated, a four-year, two times two years World War would happen.
		That rail was created and inaugurated for trains on August 1st, 1914.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he date a Third World War with a similar incident?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He said that the Third World War, the people would walk with open eyes into the third and final conflagration.
		And he described it as stars being thrown across the Atlantic between two nations from the north.
		And corresponds with Nastradamus' predictions on that and other predictions concerning these northern brothers who are not yet brothers.
		It's a strange riddle.
		He uses the term Nastradamus demis, which is D-E-M-I-S, which is kind of an attempt to spell Dami, which means friends, but in a kind of Latin context, which also can mean Demis, as in to divide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm starting to think prophecy might be designed to scare us straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stephen in Washington, real quick with John Hope.
unidentified		Hi there, gentlemen.
		I'm calling from Bellingham, Washington.
		John, first I want to say thank you for always giving Nostradamus credit.
		I've heard other psychics on coast to coast talk about their predictions and they're echoing Nostradamus.
		They're always not plagiarizing.
		I first read about Persia's revival in 1980.
		And at the time, we had hostages in Iran.
		And also at the time, it didn't seem plausible that Iran could become a power great enough to stand against the U.S. or any other world power.
		I don't think we can win with our Navy over there.
		Somebody else touched, one of the earlier callers touched upon my question.
		What I wanted to bring up was the wildcard position of both Russia and China and how the U.S. doesn't seem to appear in Nostradamus' prophecies when this war takes place.
		Of course, it didn't exist when he was alive, but the new lands or new cities don't seem to have too much of a place.
		So I wanted to hear you extrapolate on the question I feel shouldn't be, does Iran have the bomb?
		It should be who's giving it to them?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, Iran doesn't have the bomb.
		And secondly, America is expressed, although infrequently, in the prophecies, is either Amarish or Amorica or the new land.
		And the invaders that come to Iran in one of the prophecies are called the true serpent, which is a riddle that for 400 years people have been trying to unravel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there, John.
		You're listening to Coast to Coast AM.
		John Hoag is my guest.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Good morning, everybody.
		John Hoag is here, and it's some pretty rough stuff.
		I had a young lady send me an email saying she's just absolutely convinced that men are consumed with death and war.
		And I'm not sure that I disagree.
		It may be our karma to again and again and again kill each other over land, water, politics, religion.
		That's us.
		I wonder if we'll ever change.
		John Hoagleby, right back.
		So sitting here thinking a little bit about the prospect of God.
		Theirs are ours.
		Both gods.
		God, the God, telling leaders on both sides to go after each other.
		John?
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is, in a nutshell, that's the danger point of the coming few months.
		That's exactly what's underpinning a potential war.
		And then both sides believe that they will come out of this test of the final battle victorious and relatively unscathed, and the enemy will be annihilated.
		Now, when both sides deep down hold that faithful belief, it becomes a fateful reality that both destroy each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It hit me that in a nutshell, that's what we were talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom in Arizona, you're on with John Hoag.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Long time going to talk, Tom, over here in Mace, Arizona, 550 KFY.
		I was wondering if Mr. Hoag in the Nostradamus prophecies or any of his insight has any foresight into the current immigration reform proposals or the security and prosperity pact they want to shove at us.
		And I'll listen on my radio.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, there's not really anything in Nostradamus.
		There may be a misreading that Nostradamus made about the future of Europe being invaded by Islam that may actually be a misinterpretation of visions.
		I mean, if you're in 1555 and Islam is a mortal enemy of a struggling Christendom and you see in your vision the future Paris with mosques in it, you might misinterpret that to mean that it is now occupied.
		But I think he misinterpreted what he saw, and it's just the fact that there are many legal aliens and illegal aliens in Europe that are coming in from the Islamic world and setting down roots in bastions of former Christendom.
		Now, there's something I wanted to finish before the ad.
		It's a real remarkable thing that I think might have a solution.
		It's a riddle.
		Anybody who's read Nostradamus over the last 400 years has been trying to figure out who this true serpent who will invade Persia or Iran is.
		And sometimes the riddle is not obvious until it's nearly to be fulfilled, and the time is coming very soon where it may be.
		The true serpent is a symbol, and it could very well stand for the U.S. Navy, because since 911, all U.S. Naval ships, a year after 9-11, were ordered by our president to hoist the Navy Jack,
		which is a red and white flag of 13 red and white stripes that just so happens to have a rattlesnake coiled across it.
		It's the old American Revolution flag with the title, Don't Tread on Me.
		Every flag of the U.S. Navy will keep that jack hoisted until the war on terror is over.
		So not only is it unique in that it's just now in the last few years, as a symbol of the war on terror, you have an attack that is happening in Persia by a true serpent.
		That's so classic Nostradamus symbolism, and it could very well be that the true serpent that will invade is the U.S. Navy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all the way across the ocean to Norway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, you're on with John.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
		Hi, Art and John.
		Great show.
		This is John from Bergen, Norway.
		Regarding a potential upcoming war between Iran and the West, does Norway or Europe play any specific role in this conflict, according to Nostradamus?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's unavoidable in a war that will disrupt the main source of oil for the developed nation, including Europe, nations including Europe, is going to pull Europe into it.
		There are also a number of NATO naval units in the eastern Mediterranean that are now blockading Hezbollah imports into Lebanon, which may take a direct, be directly involved in this war.
		I think ultimately Europe will be pulled in, or hopefully Europe can be a go-between to prevent this war from happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anything else, John?
unidentified		Nope, that's it.
		Thank you for a great show.
		I enjoy listening to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		All right.
		Well, here's another question for you.
		If the oil supplies are cut from the Middle East, it's not just Europe and the Americas that would suffer.
		China is very, very dependent on Middle East oil as well.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Iran's oil specifically.
		And in my book, I talk about the kind of the red herring and prophecy of all the scenarios that could happen.
		This war might be, to use this pun, put dead in the water by something I call the money weapon.
		You know, there's a, and China's involved with it because China's main importer of oil is from Iran.
		And if Iran is being bombed, China may very well demand, we might see the first economic weaponry used in modern warfare where China says, stop bombing our major client or we'll demand that you pay off your $500 billion debt.
		Of course, America could then say, then we will demand your yuan, your currency, to be valued at its real value.
		And it doesn't actually have to go beyond threats.
		The U.S. dollar would plummet, and that may be enough to stop a war.
		The other thing, too, is that there's another reason why war happened to Iraq and may happen to Iran.
		One thing Saddam Hussein and Ahmed Dinejad both share is a desire to get off the U.S. dollar for petrol money system.
		They want to go to the Euro and devalue the U.S. dollar, undermine America economically.
		That is one of the major reasons why Iraq was overthrown, and that is why Iran is next, because of the very who controls the money system that controls the oil will control the global economy.
		So it is a definite direct shot across the U.S. bow by Iran, as it was with Saddam Hussein, who was the first one to foment this idea when he was being paid for sanctions for his oil.
		He didn't want to be paid in U.S. dollars anymore.
		Now, the other factor in this is Russia, which is in this strange win-win situation, whatever happens.
		If the oil is disrupted in the Middle East, the only stable source of oil for the world will be Russia.
		If the prices go through the roof, Russia will make immense profits by supplying the world with oil.
		And Russia will gain a political power to say, look, if you stop this war with Iran, we will give you a bargain-based price, America, for the oil you must have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hand that rocks the oil pump rules the world.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and when you add the fact that Ahmed Dinejad has very carefully gone around with Chinese leaders, has visited Venezuela and had long sessions with Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, you know that it's possible that with the disruption of the Strait of Hormuz and the cutoff of flow of oil and add the 16% that we get from Venezuela being cut off,
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		you've got nearly half the U.S. daily consumption needs of oil cut off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's got a war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jeff in St. Louis, Missouri, you're on with John Hogue.
unidentified		Pleasure to speak with both of you guys this morning.
		First, one quick thing, Art.
		If you thought your Sopranos was bad, you should have caught Jericho's Finale.
		If you ever watch that show, you know what I'm talking about, the finale I'm talking about.
		But anyway, my comment is about Iran and their nukes, possible nukes.
		If you're losing the peace with, like, like Israel may be losing the peace with Iran and Syria regarding nukes, isn't it better to get in the first strike first than you're losing the peace?
		I guess what I'm trying to say is if you know you're going to get invaded or attacked, isn't it better to throw the first strike first?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It was true in 1967, and when there was clear and objective evidence that Abu Gamel Nasser and the Egyptian armies, the Syrian army, the Jordanian armies were all converging on the frontiers of Israel, that the leaders like Nasser were saying we're going to march them into the sea.
		And Israel was absolutely right to suddenly five days ago, 40 years ago, to launch a preemptive strike to destroy the air forces of its adversaries and then have control of the air and then dismantle the invasion forces from the air and from battles.
		Israel is right to do that.
		The question is, is this the similar situation with Iran?
		Does Iran really have the means to threaten the existence of Israel or is it just a lot of hot, holy air?
		and I think it is hot holy air and it would be a great I am simply saying that the The message is that this is not the time for preemption.
		That does not mean it might not come in the future, that Israel would be absolutely right to strike Iran, but it is not now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve in New Jersey, you're on with John Hogue.
unidentified		Hi, thanks for having me, Ort.
		Thanks, John.
		I have a question.
		Before George Bush got elected, I heard that Notradamus had a prophecy that he would go for two terms, a fool would go for two terms, and then after that, a general would become, next general would become president.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, there's nothing in Nostradamus that says that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		As often happens in Nostradamus, I guess that's why Nostradamus put indexes, indexed all of his prophecies into quatrain, number this, century volume that, so that often when you see some kind of statement saying that it's from Nostradamus, if it doesn't give you the index numbers where you can verify the French, it's spurious.
unidentified		Okay.
		Thank you very much.
		You're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To Seth in Monroe, Louisiana.
unidentified		Yes.
		I actually had a two-part question.
		First of all, do you think that our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq were originally laid out as an eventual invasion of Iran?
		If you look at the math, Afghanistan is on the east.
		Iraq is on the west.
		We have Iran surrounded right now.
		Secondly, do you think we'll be able to mount a successful naval invasion?
		I remember him saying something about the rattlesnake.
		And I just wanted to know whether or not he thinks that if the Aegis system fails as he says it might with all the missiles that they'd be firing at us, would we still be able to effectively invade from the sea?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, in my book, I talk about the scenario of the future Iwo Jima.
		It would be the battle over an island that's right in the middle of the shipping lanes.
		And I can't imagine any, in the Strait of Hormuz, I can't imagine if there's any conflict that one or both of the brigades or battalions that are on the ocean and amphibious expeditionary forces might have to take the island of Abu Musa and the greater and lesser tub islands because there are 4,000
		revolutionary guards there with Chinese silkworm anti-ship batteries, naval installations, and I can't imagine that there would be any conflict in that area without those main bases being, seeing Marines landing on the beaches of Abu Musa and fighting an enemy that is just as fanatic as Kurubayashi's Japanese soldiers at Iwo Jima.
unidentified		Definitely willing to give their lives in that way.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Seth, does that answer your question?
unidentified		Well, also, what about the surrounding effect that we have accomplished with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting that the convergence of something that was said in the 7th century by Muhammad that Afghanistan would be the source of this holy war of the black flags marching west seems to already be happening, the starting stages of it.
		And certainly there is, all the way back to 1992, and in the book, Nasrdamos, The War with Iran, which is on my website, downloadable for purchase, is a very clear step-by-step look at interesting segments of the thinking of neoconservatism from 1992 to the present that basically spell out the need to take Iran and Iraq out,
		keep them from becoming great adversaries, control the oil regions, that for this to speed up, you have to have, which was written in September of 2000, a Pearl Harbor event that could hasten the agenda of neoconservatism.
		It's all documented, referenced materials.
		It is a manifesto that is over halfway to its goal.
		And now that the administration is besieged, and the last early apostle of neoconservatism is still probably the most powerful vice president in the history of the United States, Dick Cheney, who was one of the first people to author the concept of invading and attacking Iran, as well as Iraq.
		We are now in an 18-month period where time is running out, And that's why it's so highly dangerous a time now where somebody might rush to fulfill, in faith of their ideology, a reality that is not related to world fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Keith in Dallas, Texas, you're on with John Hoag.
unidentified		Yes, John.
		With respect to your point about President Bush telling Palestinian leaders that God told him to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, and also with the possibility of him saying the same thing to somebody else in the future about Iran, it seems to me that the reason Bush would tell any Middle Eastern leader that God told him to do something is because that way he is relating to them.
		Middle Eastern people are very religious people, John, and I think the reason why Bush would use that kind of wording is because he's trying to relate a policy decision to them.
		And they probably do use religion to have them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a way, they would understand.
unidentified		Well, I don't think that it just seems, I don't think that what you're saying about the U.S. going in this religious direction, you know, that our leaders are using religious justifications for war.
		I don't think that's really happening.
		And I don't think you could say the same that's happening in places like Iran where they do use this religious.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good point.
		That's a good challenge.
		Let me respond to that.
		Back in my book, Messiahs, which I published in 1999, which I quoted in this new book, I have the following passage concerning Pat Robertson and his plan, rather the closest thing to a theocratic intention that I've ever seen from an American context.
		And I said, Robertson urged the American Christians to elect anybody, quote, in office at any level, to fill the school boards, dominate the 50 state legislators, to take control of city councilships, mayoral, and state government offices, and pick upstanding and fundamentalist candidates for right up to the Capitol, right up to legislation and the presidency.
		It is a fact that the Bush administration sought graduates from the Regent's University, which is Pat Robertson's university, which has said that it wants to create a Christian, quote-unquote, leadership to change the world.
		This is the motto of the Regent University of Pat Robertson.
		There are 150 graduates from that college that are in the Oval Office serving the Bush administration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I don't think George Bush is one of them.
		And I would tend to agree with the caller that he might say that for that reason.
		I honestly don't think that President Bush would certainly say that for U.S. consumption.
		I can imagine he might say that to a Palestinian leader so that it is better understood.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's another way you can look at it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He felt more at ease to say his heart to a Palestinian knowing full well, because, you know, Mr. Bush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can look at it that way.
		Listen, we're out of time, John.
		Your book, which I'm sure many will be interested in now, is an e-book on your website, right?
unidentified		Yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		At hokeprophecy.com.
		That's H-O-G-U-E-P-R-O-P-H-E-C-Y dot com.com slash Iran war.
		Just one word, and then you'll see the promo and read more about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Until next time, it's been a fascinating program.
		No question about that, John.
		Thank you very much, and we'll do it again, my friend, as usual.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you very much for having me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Good night.
		George picks up the ball and runs with it tomorrow night.

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