Art Bell

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June 9, 2007 - Art Bell

02:36:21

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Paul F. Eno - Paranormal Investigations - Whitley Strieber - Global Warming

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41:26

paul f eno

01:19:56

whitley strieber

24:46

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's prolific time zones, each and every one covered like a blanket by this program, Coast to Coast AM, the largest program of its kind in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Mark Bell, here to escort you through the weekend.
unidentified		And yes, it has happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Break out the cigars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, my wife, Erin, is four feet, eight inches tall.
unidentified		That's pretty short.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty short for a pregnant lady who just had an eight-pound, five-ounce baby girl, Asia Rainbow.
		It came two days early, actually.
		She arrived two days early on the 30th of May.
		Now, she was due originally June 1st.
		And we were going to comfortably go into the hospital on June 1st and have a baby.
		Fade music.
		So we were going to comfortably go into the hospital and have a baby June 1st.
		Well, May 30th at about 606 o'clock in the morning, Aaron said, well, I think I'm having pains.
		It wasn't very dramatic.
		It was just, I think I'm having pains here and in my back.
		And I said, you know, I think this is it.
		Now, how cool is this?
		We took the time.
		You know, I timed them.
		They were about six minutes apart at that point.
		I said, come on, let's take a shower.
		Get up and take a shower.
		So we both got up and took a shower, got in the car, which was all packed and ready to go, drove into the hospital, and the nurse examined her, you know, and I'm sweating bullets.
		And the nurse said, oh, she's in labor.
		She's in labor.
		And so our doctor, Dr. Como, came in and said, yep, she's in labor.
		We're going to have a C-section.
		Do it about 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
		Oh, no, 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
		That's a long time from now.
		By then it was, oh, I don't know, 10 o'clock or so, 10.30.
		And so he checked her and he said, oh, ooh, six to seven centimeters dilated.
		We're going to have a C-section now.
		So Adrian Bell was born 12.51 p.m.
		12.51 p.m. by C-section.
		Was 8 pounds, 5 ounces, 19 inches long.
		And you can see her.
		It's a picture I took actually early this morning.
		If you go to the coasttocoastam.com website, upper left-hand corner, arts webcam, click on it, and you'll see a photograph of one very alert young lady.
		Now, even at four days, she was alert, awake, alert, just incredibly advanced.
		She is an amazingly beautiful little girl, is what she is.
		I'd like to thank everybody.
		I'm not going to have time to thank everybody, all those who have sent well wishes and congratulations and all the rest of that.
		Thank you so very much.
		I could never in a million years answer all of the email.
		But I do want to thank Carl and Sharon Richardson.
		That would be Sharon, who is Erin's sister.
		And Carl, my brother-in-law, they drove out from Arkansas, spent a couple of weeks here, a week before and a week after the birth, and helped out tremendously.
		I'd like to thank all the people who have congratulated us and sent us the well-wishing emails and all of that.
		Ian and George for filling in last weekend because believe me, it would not have been a good weekend to try to be on the air tall.
		And we have one absolutely, stunningly beautiful, alert, advanced, beyond her days little girl.
		So if you want to see her picture, again, coasttocoastam.com.
		I'm not going to dwell on it.
		I know new parents tend to be, I don't know, jumping up and down, which is, of course, what we're doing.
		But for those who are not the parents, it probably bores them to death.
unidentified		So I'm not going to dwell on it, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she really is absolutely spectacular.
		I mean, take a look at that face.
		We're still arguing about whose lips, whose eyes.
		We're not sure about the cheeks.
		So it's kind of a combination.
		Remember, this young lady is half Filipino, half American, and was conceived in Hong Kong, hence the name Asia Rain Bell.
		And that's R-A-Y-N-E.
		Okay, that's it.
		Asia is now in the world, and boy, in more ways than one is she in the world.
		She is, I just can't stress enough how alert.
		And it's, I look at her, and it seems like she's three months old or something.
		But that, I can assure you, is the early part of the 10th day of life, that photograph that's up there right now.
		That said, in a moment, we have some very, very important news for you about what's going on at the top and the bottom of the world and what's going on with that drone.
		All of that with Whitley Streeber coming up in a moment.
		As adults, I guess we've been lifelong friends.
		Whitley Streeber is the author of Communion, War Day, and too many more things for me to possibly even list right here.
		So I'm not even going to bother.
		Whitley Striever, very well known.
		UnknownCountry.com is his website.
		I get a lot of material there.
		Whitley, welcome to the program.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, welcome, Asia, to the world from me.
		She indeed looks incredibly, thank you, amazingly alert for that age.
		You are a very lucky man and a man of incredible courage.
		It just is wonderful.
		I mean, you know, we're five days apart in age art.
		And while I'm not exactly sporting a cane yet, I also don't have a 10-day-old baby.
		Wow, it's very impressive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what was courageous was staying in there during the C-section and watching it all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that took courage.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I have to admit that when that happened to my wife, I was not hospitalized, but I was close.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I was among those men who end up practically having to be carried out on a gurney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to consider 8 pounds, 5 ounces coming out of a 4-foot, you know, 8-inch girl.
		They had to really pull her out.
		It was well, anyway.
		Anyway, Whitley, let's talk about drones.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's start talking about drones.
		And by the way, I do have a couple of things going.
		The Grays is out in paperback.
		We are in the process of looking for a director for the movie, which is on track for, I think, next summer or the summer after.
		And my new book, 2012, The War for Souls, is coming out in September, and it's also going to be a movie for Warner Brothers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love the title, The War for Souls.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		It's about what I've put together about what's really happening in our world.
		I hope it'll really stun people.
		Anyway, it's a novel.
		It's another work of quote-unquote fiction, like The Grays.
		And so there's a good bit going on, but let's talk now about drones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, just one second.
		Before drones, everybody's congratulating me, of course, on the computer that I have sitting here with the Fast Blast, except Heinrich from College Station, Texas, who says, hey, Art, you're going to show a picture of Asia's first poo on the webcam?
		No, Heinrich, but for free samples, right to the network.
		Okay, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Heinrich.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Drones.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		There's always somebody like that out there, isn't there?
		But most of our fans are fabulous.
		That's what I like to focus on, not the junk.
		Anyway, a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago, Linda, as you know, and I guess Lex got some remarkable and what I assumed at first must have been completely fallacious pictures of what looked like something that some Star Trek fan had built and thrown up in the air and collected a couple of pictures of or had done with Photoshop or something.
		However, subsequently, the mystery deepened as it often does in our world.
		And Linda was soon talking to Sylvia on Dreamland, who saw this same thing in Sequoia National Park last summer in 2006.
		And lo and behold, she proceeds to get a picture of it from Alabama, from Mr. Smith, who took a picture of a similar object hanging over a telephone wire in Alabama, a picture which has almost certainly not been photoshopped in any way.
		And indeed, the Chad pictures, we have not found any evidence so far of any photoshopping either.
		And now there are new pictures, which we are looking at very carefully, which are either real or a truly fine job of CGI work that goes quite far beyond ordinary photoshopping.
		It's a really, if it's true, it's a fine job.
		And the combination of the witnesses and the utter sincerity of both of these people and of Chad, for that matter, and these incredible pictures, and I think to myself finally, who are we kidding?
		This thing, it looks like it might be out there.
		There might be something real.
		There's going to be fakes, certainly.
		There's already one fake, very nice piece of CGI animation on YouTube of the thing taking off, allegedly, of a model of it.
		It's beautifully done, but it's a fake.
		And the guy who did it said, he was perfectly straightforward about the fact that it was a fake.
		Now, I wrote a journal on my website, and the way you get to that is you go to unknowncountry.com, you look in the left column, and you click on Whitley's journal.
		And I'm speculating about this at every possible level, because if it's man-made, then that's one thing.
		However, if it's not, it represents something very new in the whole UFO world.
		And this is an if, because I, like you, Art, am sort of inclined to think it's probably man-made.
		But if it isn't, then the whole UFO story has got it, started a new sentence, because we have never had pictures this clear.
		We have never had something so clever, which is if you look at the bottom of the Chad pictures, you can see writing on it, which looks like a mix of Klingon and something out of Star Wars and maybe some few Japanese characters.
		In other words, it looks like something, if it's real and not made by us, that was designed to make us think it was a fake.
		Very smart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Designed to make us think it was a fake.
		Exactly.
		All right, Winley.
		A couple of things I want to note.
		One is last week...
		The week prior, somebody wrote, look, take the picture and take a good look at it in, oh, I forget, one of the tools that you use.
		And you'll see Photoshop.
		You'll see the Photoshop ID, and indeed you do, but it had to be processed to put on the website.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		The problem is as soon as you process it in Photoshop, the Photoshop ID is going to show up in a processed image.
		So that doesn't Prove anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, and I said that at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, to me, I maintain what I said when I first saw this, and that is it is weird, but it seems to me to be terrestrial weird as opposed to extra terrestrial weird.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I have the opposite feeling.
		I feel that it's extraterrestrial weird rather than terrestrial weird.
		And, you know, I mean, it's really six of one and half, a dozen of the other.
		Flip a coin.
		I have no way.
		It's just my instinct and your instinct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's a very important distinction.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would be.
		Very, very important.
		We can't come down on either side.
		I'm hoping that there'll be something more that basically I know somebody who's quite good at this, who's up there in Northern California now, who has got all kinds of equipment and is just basically driving the roads all day.
		And hopefully he'll find this thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you this, Whitley.
		Has Chad come forth yet?
		Do we know where he is?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Linda has talked to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so we know where these photographs were taken.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Linda knows his name.
		She knows where the photographs were taken.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How frequently do they allegedly show up, Whitley?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How frequently do they allegedly show?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was around for a couple of days, apparently, in his neck of the woods.
		And the photos that have been posted on, I guess it's ufodigest.com, just the past few days, were taken by a wedding photographer with a small camera, and she just happened to see it.
		So she says, or I say it, it's another much larger object, a similar design, but quite a bit larger than the one in the Chad photo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much bigger?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't got, unfortunately, it's only guesswork because, you know, without any ability to triangulate, we don't know how far away from the camera it is.
		It appears to be something on the order maybe of an 18th wheeler in terms of its length, or maybe a little longer than that.
		Pretty big, in other words.
unidentified		Maybe even bigger.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And if it's farther away from the camera, obviously a lot bigger.
		But it just that one I think the case is kind of not closed on.
		I think that one could be a fine piece of fine special effect, a very impressive special effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody made anything yet of the inscription, which is quite legible, even in the photographs?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		We've got all of the letters, and right now I have a guy who is working on Japanese, Klingon, and another language.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I've forgotten the name of it, frankly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know Klingon was an actual language.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a full alphabet of Klingon, yeah.
		And trying to see if he can find a message in it somewhere, but so far no cigar.
		We were thinking that maybe the message would reveal the author of the joke or something, but right now we can't find anything out.
		And not only that, he's beginning to think that these lettering just looks close to some of that, but it's not really that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what if this is really it?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it's aliens, then it's a material change in two ways.
		First, we've never seen anything like this before.
		And second, these would be the clearest UFO pictures ever seen.
		And that's part of what I wrote about, because if that's the case, then there are reasons.
		I wrote on March the 30th, an earlier journal, after the United Airlines terminal and a number of other different extraordinary events that happened toward the end of last year, that we could be on a track here where things are going to be getting closer.
		We're going to see more.
		And I said I had no idea what form it would take because you can never second-guess this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I've been out of touch now for a couple of weeks.
		What of other ufologists?
		For example, Stan Friedman, has he chimed in?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, he hasn't.
		To my knowledge, he may have.
		But I think that most of them are pretty much in the same position we are, sort of thinking, gee, if it's real, it's really a surprise and really strange, and sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop and for someone to say, come out and say, ha, ha, ha, it's all based on our new movie, et cetera, and so forth, and, you know, viral marketing or something.
		But so far, nobody's come forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is beginning to get to be a fairly serious mystery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think it would have almost gone on long enough for somebody, if it was, you know, a promotion for a movie or something along those lines, they would have thrown in the tunnel by now.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Said something by now, yeah, because they would have, you know, the bloom will be off the rose soon.
		And one thing that hasn't happened that's kind of interesting is that there's no video of it.
		And the fact that there is not yet any video suggests it could be a hoax, because video is much more difficult to do well if you're going to do it up in the sky with, you know, et cetera, et cetera so forth.
		But in the statement that was on UFO Digest by Jana, the lady who is the photographer who accidentally took it, she describes a jumping motion.
		And to one of the analysts, one of the gentlemen that I work, he's not really an analyst, but he's just very, he knows a lot about video.
		He's a videographer, I should say, said that that's a bit suspicious.
		And the reason he said that is that it would be much easier to make a video of something that kind of jumps from place to place and then just disappears Than it would be to make a video of something that moved very smoothly and then moved slowly off into the distance.
		And so the statement could be a setup for a video that's a simple video to make.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Whitley, there's nobody that wants it to be true more than myself, and I'm sure yourself as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want this mystery solved in our lifetime, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I want the mystery solved, but I want to cut the cards.
		And I'm not so sure that I'm quite with you on the idea of having them suddenly land on the White House lawn or something.
		I'd like this to happen a little bit differently.
		It would be very nice, wouldn't it, if we could go to them first?
		But in any case, it's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
		I want this mystery solved.
		I've been talking about it for years.
		I'm Mart Bell.
		Here indeed I am.
		Whitley Striever is with me this hour.
		And he's got a lot to say about a lot.
		And earlier in the week, I saw a piece on CNN that just brought me straight up in my seat.
		And basically, it said that Greenland is beginning to melt.
		And Greenland is melting at a rate that nobody anticipated.
		And that's really serious damn news because Greenland, unlike the North Pole, Greenland's ice sheet is above the water.
		So it's not ice cubed.
		You know, it's not one of those who cares things because, you know, ice cubes in a glass of water, they melt.
		Who cares?
		It's the same.
		Greenland melts.
		You get about 23 feet of sea level rise.
		So that one stood me straight.
		I picked up the phone and called Whitley, so we'll get to that in a moment.
		Let me solve one more puzzle.
		Mark in Anchorage, Alaska.
		Thank you, Mark, says, hey, Art.
		Stan Friedman said on George's show that if the vehicle was real, he felt it was terrestrial.
		So I guess Stan and I agree on that one.
		I'm sure it's going right into his gray box.
		Whitley's Frieber back in a moment.
		Well, there you go, Whitley.
		That's what Stanton thinks.
		Interesting, if it's real, terrestrial, is what he said, apparently.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, we shall see.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		If it's terrestrial, it'll be interesting to see who's doing that and who is willing to exhibit such an extraordinarily advanced propulsion system publicly in the context of the fact that we have lots and lots of areas that these things can be tested over and test-bedded over that are not going to be driven through by the public or seen by the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you all the way.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So this is something somebody wants to be seen in a small way.
		In other words, they don't want a lot of people to see it, but they want some people to see it.
		If it's terrestrial, why?
		Want to talk about Greenland?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I sure do.
		I saw that piece on CNN and headline news, and I went, oh, my God, Greenland's melting much faster than they thought?
		Is that accurate?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's correct.
		Greenland and the Antarctic both are.
		And you mentioned that if Greenland melted entirely, there would be a sea level rise of 23 feet.
		And yeah, but everyone thinks, well, that's not going to happen.
		However, there's something that happens between now and then.
		Greenland doesn't melt in a day.
		Greenland melts over a period of time.
		So let's look at another statistic.
		If 10% of Greenland's ice cap melts and 2% of the Antarctic's ice cap melts, which will probably happen in the next few years, the way things are going now, you're looking at a sea level rise of 4 to 6 feet in that short time.
		This means that places like central Long Island with over a million inhabitants, the entire southern part of Louisiana, all of Bangladesh, many of the island countries in the Pacific that are subject to typhoon flooding are death traps potentially.
		Even now, already, with the sea rise we've already had, there was an extraordinary event, a major cyclone, as powerful as Katrina in terms of its wind speeds, but not in terms of its size, hit Oman in the Arabian Sea.
		It's never been hit by a hurricane-like storm at all.
		And right now on our website, you have the lead stories that 35 people were killed there in this storm, which was a catastrophe for Muscat, the capital of Oman.
		Now, if that storm had gone and blown up the Bay of Bengal, which happens frequently, it's not unusual there, you would have seen maybe 50,000 people killed in Bangladesh.
		And if in four or five years we've had this small level of melt that I've just mentioned, Bangladesh could be destroyed as a country by a single storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		Whitley, here, this will give you a little scale.
		I was reaching out for scale trying to figure out how the models could have been this wrong.
		It's going so much faster.
		The story in sfg.com, they flew a plane seven years ago over Greenland and just now flew another plane.
		Okay, well, originally, the glaciers were moving into the ocean at a rate of about six feet a year, but seven flights this spring covering 16,000 miles of Greenland's surface and coastal glaciers revealed the ice along the southern coast now is speeding to the sea at more than 75 feet a year.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes, far faster than in their worst nightmares the scientists even a few years ago or Whitley Street Red Bell when we were doing the superstorm could have possibly we imagined.
		Now, Here's why.
		There are two reasons.
		One is certain, and one is very weird.
		The certain one is this: added to the emissions that are coming from the United States and Europe, which the developed world and Japan, which are the largest in terms of emissions,
		greenhouse gas emissions, the largest emitters, suddenly and unexpectedly to everyone five years ago, India and China are adding massive increases with absolutely no pollution controls whatsoever of any significance in either country.
		China is putting online a new coal-fired power plant every week.
		Once a week, a new coal-fired power plant with absolutely no pollution controls at all opens in China.
		And this is what is causing this, causing the tipping point to come back in time right into our faces.
		But there's Something else going on.
		If you analyze Mars and the Martian polar caps, you find that they are declining too.
		The sun is playing some kind of a role in this that we absolutely don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I asked a couple of very well-credentialed climatologists about that over the last few weeks.
		And they say, yes, it's true about Mars, but no, it's not part of what's happening here.
		Now, I don't know how they can come to that conclusion.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They can come to that conclusion.
		In fact, what you were hearing was politics, not science.
		Politics says environmental fears, the politics of the environmental movement fear that if people think the sun's doing it, they'll quit trying to do anything about it.
		So somehow the sun is doing it to Mars, but not to the Earth.
		Uh-huh.
		I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be my reaction, too, Whitley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just sort of passing on what they said, and they were pro-global warming folks.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But the thing is that they have to realize that this is a big, complex problem.
		I read a very interesting article that I don't have in front of me by a climatologist who was basically saying that the – in fact, he was the head climatologist at NASA.
		And thanks to the magic of the internet and my memory, we do have a story about this unknown country, and he was the – in any
		case he was the chief scientist he's the chief environmental scientist at NASA and he is saying that that that scientists are not being completely candid about just how bad this actually is and that they need to step up and say that that that this is actually matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how Whitley, obviously it's a non-linear process.
		I'm wondering how much worse it is than we're actually being told.
		I mean, it would indicate here much, much worse.
		And is it going to become even faster or what?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be, well, I think it's going to speed up even more because you can't, unfortunately, you have these economies in China and India that are very, very, these countries are very different from the West.
		In the West, we're going to win this thing.
		But we might be defeated from behind by countries which really can't control what they're doing.
		Like, for example, last week's Economist, which is one of the bellwether publications of business, has got the whole issue is devoted to the greening of the corporate world.
		Exxon, which has been a very anti-global warming element for years, has quit supporting the main think tank that is saying that global warming is not real or unproven.
		They pulled their funding out, and from top to bottom, the community of Western corporations is trying to figure out just how do we do this.
		And many of them, like DuPont, are discovering that not only can they do it, but they can make money doing it because a green company is a more efficient company.
		It's green because it's using its resources more efficiently, therefore more profitably.
		And there's all kinds of incredible stuff.
		Like 20 years ago, solar power cost about $20 a kilowatt.
		Now it's down to a couple of dollars a kilowatt.
		The same is true of wind power.
		But what can we do when the Chinese can't change things?
		Their government is not an effective organization.
		I mean, what it can do is arrest political dissidents and throw them in jail.
		But what it can't do is something like regulate, successfully regulate, because there is, in the West, we start out with a basic respect for the law.
		In China, they start out having lived for years with laws that nobody could respect, with a basic disrespect for the law, and they ignore it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you suppose the world, Whitley, will handle the loss of, for example, Bangladesh?
		Now, how many people are...
		I wonder how many people are in Bangladesh.
		Millions, right?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Millions.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it might be 80 million.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		80 million.
		80 million people.
		How would the world handle the loss of 80 million people?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, it's the horrible thing is that those places, like I wouldn't live in, you know, Central Long Island was completely crossed by a storm surge in 1936.
		The whole center of the island was farmland then, with a few towns.
		There were quite a few people killed.
		And if a Katrina-sonic storm hit there now, it would just be an unimaginable disaster.
		And five years from now, if we've had 3 or 4% Greenland melt, which we probably will have, and another percentage point, say, of Antarctic melt, and sea levels have risen 2.5 to 3 feet, it would be an unimaginable human catastrophe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure would.
		You know, a lot of people have been sitting back, I think, kind of thinking silently, perhaps.
		Well, you know what?
		This is centuries away.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not going to bother me.
		Not going to bother my children.
		Wrong.
		Wrong.
		It is.
		And it may account for the loss of many highly populated countries.
		And I suppose some could shrug at the loss of 80 million in Bangladesh, as an example.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think I can shrug at it.
		And I think that also we have so many low-lying areas in the United States and so many low-lying areas in Europe that are really in very serious jeopardy from this kind of thing.
		Very serious.
		The Europeans don't have the kind of big storms that can drive tides inland, but the whole United States, the whole coastline, the Atlantic coast and the Gulf Coast of the United States are at very serious jeopardy from this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all of the coast, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you had, I don't know, somebody ought to actually do a chart and show what, say, six feet of additional ocean rise would look like, how it would impact land.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, four feet, three feet.
		I mean, any, even a few inches makes a significant difference.
		There's a reason that you can't get insurance if you live on coasts anymore.
		They're not fools.
		They see what's coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, watch the insurance companies.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you want to know what's really going to happen in the future?
		Watch what the insurance companies are doing.
		Then you'll know.
		For sure.
		By the way, I want to mention something that I'm going to get choked if I don't mention this, and I forgot about it until this second.
		Unknown Country is a subscriber-supported site, and anyone wants to subscribe, if they subscribe for a year tonight through midnight tomorrow, they will get a free autographed copy of my paperback of my novel, The Grays.
		Bear that in mind, folks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're going to be doing a lot of signing.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Probably, and we need it because it's expensive to run a big website like that.
		And Ann and I have chosen not to have advertisers for our own reasons.
		And so we sort of do it in partnership with our subscribers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was interesting, Whitley, in the early days of the Internet, there were so few people actually listening to streaming that my company, for example, in its various stages of development, now Clear Channel, just put it up there and let people have it for free and bore the expense of the streaming.
		And it was no big deal because there weren't that many.
		Now everybody has a computer, and everybody should know, and most people I think do know now, that bandwidth is money.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Period.
		Bandwidth is money.
		It's like gold.
		And so you cannot just give it away.
		I remember when people started charging for it, people went berserk.
		This should be free.
		It's been free.
		Costs money.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It costs a lot of money.
		And streaming, we have a quarter of a million listeners to Dreamland.
		And, you know, the streams cost money.
		And, you know, basically, the site runs at a deficit, and we make up the difference every month.
		And we're glad to do it.
		But every once in a while, it almost doesn't run at a deficit.
		And I think, oh, gee, this is great.
		And I really love my subscribers.
		And I think we provide the best, lovely subscription section.
		So like Coast, we provide value for money.
		It's a Real valuable thing to have a subscription to us, just like it is to have to coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I don't know what to say about this, except I'm shocked, and I'm very, very sorry to see what's happening both at the I think your story said emergency at the top and the bottom of the world, right?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The top of the world, that's right.
		But we, you know, Art, I look at a baby like yours, and there are babies coming.
		Everybody I know is, a lot of people we know seem to be having babies right now.
		And I have to tell you that I would say that there is a real future for these children because I think we're going to go through quite a period of reckoning.
		But there is just so much capability in the human species.
		We are really smart and we are really good at survival.
		And when the big companies that really run this world get going and they are getting going on this, I think we'll win.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They better get going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody sent me an email that said, a baby's face like Asia's is God's way of saying the world should go on.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Beautiful.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Beautiful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so I'm looking at it that way.
		Yes, there are problems, but I'm not going to throw up my hands, and I don't think anybody else should.
		It's time to dig in, figure out how to deal with what's coming, and for God's sakes, quit saying it's not coming, because it is.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And people say that because they think it's, they don't want to face it because they can't imagine what we might be able to do about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But boy, you know, we're taking the gloves off on global warming, and we will succeed because despite the Chinese and the Indians, what we can do in the West is to, we are the biggest emitters, and so we can make the biggest dent, and we can get it to the point where they have to come along.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For another year or so, I understand China will pass us in about a year.
		And anyway, Whitley, I don't blame them.
		We industrialized.
		We made ourselves a good life.
		They're only trying to follow suits.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, to an extent, that's true, but the world has changed, and they have to face the fact they're not in the world of 50 or 100 years ago.
		They're in the world of now.
		And it's wonderful that they're industrializing.
		But if they end up living in a land of bones, what's it worth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, buddy, that's it.
		Got to go.
		Whitley's Dreamer, as always, my friend, thank you so very much.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		This is for Aaron Bell and beautiful New Asia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, my friend.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, folks.
		It's to the paranormal at the top of the hour.
		From the high desert, I'm Mike Bell.
		For the sake of accuracy, by the way, with respect to Bangladesh, the population somewhere between 147 and 150 million people, for the sake of accuracy.
		All right, coming up in a moment, Paul Eno, who has been called the most intelligent voice in paranormal research today.
		He began his long career as a paranormal investigator in 1970 at the age of 17.
		He is a graduate of two seminaries, holder of a degree in philosophy, and an award-winning New England journalist.
		Paul is the author of seven books, including five on paranormal subjects.
		He is a fellow of the American Society for Physical Research and a veteran of the U.S. Coast Guard.
		In addition, Paul has had hair-raising adventures with famous hauntings.
		Oh, that'll be interesting.
		And has unique theories about the paranormal and its meaning for our understanding of God, the world, in ourselves.
		That's it.
		Coming up in a moment.
		Paul Eno.
		You know, it's funny.
		When we do these programs, they give us a little sheet, you know, with the bio on it, and then a list of suggested questions.
		And the first one is for Paul Eno.
		I guess I'd first like to say, Paul, welcome to Coast to Coast AM as a first timer, I guess, on the program, right?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, a second timer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, second.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		But it's first time with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, the first question, suggested question, says, your vision of the paranormal seems much deeper than most people's.
		How do you define the paranormal?
		What are some of the normal paranormal experiences we have every day?
		Well, I haven't talked to you yet, so I don't know that it's much deeper than most people's, but it probably is since you've written five books on the subject.
		Anyway, we're sure going to find out.
		What got you interested, Paul, in this incredible subject?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, well, first of all, let me congratulate you on your new daughter.
		Thank you.
		And it's a good thing you're used to staying up all night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, now that you've said that, that's when she wakes up at night.
		Now, Aaron and I used to spend, you know, we go to bed typically at 4 or 5 in the morning, and that's exactly how she's behaving.
		So it's good for us, I guess.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, she'll either be your successor or mine.
		I'm not sure which one.
		In any case, well, I started out as a seminary student, of course, in 1970.
		And from the very first hour of my very first case, I began to question the traditional 19th century understanding of what ghosts are.
		Spirits of the dead.
		They exist in a spirit world separated from ours by a veil of some kind.
		From day one, it just didn't hold up.
		Now, you may wonder, first of all, why not only one seminary student, me, but five others were out looking for ghosts in the first place.
		Not the usual activity, you think, for students for the first time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I very much wonder about that, Paul, because I thought the traditional religious belief was kind of like this, that we die, and then we're dead until, you know, until resurrection time or what have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But don't most traditional religious beliefs not embrace ghosts at all?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, that depends on the religion.
		And in the case of Roman Catholicism, there was and is a doctrine known as purgatory.
		And I'm sure most people are familiar with that, who has to do with Roman Catholicism.
		My theory, you know, strange as it may seem now, Was that these ghosts, which obviously were present in every culture and every time and well known to humans throughout history, were in fact souls in purgatory?
		That's the theory I started with.
		And that's why a bunch of us were out without the knowledge or approval of our church superiors, I might add, in the woods of Northeast Connecticut, I should say, in 1971 doing these things.
		But as I say, from day one, it just didn't add up.
		The phenomena that we encountered seemed to demonstrate the presence of people who showed no sign whatsoever of being dead at all, never mind of being in purgatory.
		For example, on that first night, we stood there and we heard, and this place is all overgrown with woods.
		It had been an abandoned settlement many, many, many years before it had been occupied.
		But there was a brook, and there were the sounds of children laughing and running up and down this brook.
		We couldn't see them, and they were running or moving in such a way that seemed extremely quick, unnaturally rapid.
		The sounds would not record.
		We had recording equipment.
		Because this is the 70s, the seat of the pants here, no cell phones, no gauss meters and this sort of thing, but we had recording instruments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could see these children?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		We could not.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		We could only hear them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could hear them.
		We could hear them.
		And so you could detect movement?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And when you walked into this area, even during the day, you could hear the sounds of farm implements, dogs, cows, people.
		It was though it were a normal day in the life of somebody else.
		And we made it a point to check the entire area within the radius of over a mile.
		And the only thing that was present there was a 4-H camp with a couple of counselors there and no campers.
		I mean, there simply was no way that these sounds were made by anything nearby.
		So this really began to make us wonder.
		One incident that I repeat frequently, because it makes the point, is what happened to us as we were leaving our second trip to this place, which was in the fall of 71.
		And we heard an ox cart coming toward us down this old path.
		And it sounded so real that we literally got out of the way to let it go by.
		And sure enough, there was the sound of, I guess, oxen, wooden wheels, proceeding through an area very nearby, no more than 10 or 15 feet away, that had been a road about 150 years before.
		A couple of us stepped toward it, and all of a sudden we heard a guy yell, hya, and the crack of a whip, and we couldn't see the bloody thing right by us.
		We all stood.
		It was seven people now sort of who were experiencing this, and it was just, it really, really shook us up.
		This is our first case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sure it shook you up.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And I began to wonder immediately, you know, are we dealing perhaps more with time than we are with death?
		Questions would arise such as, you know, without your body, are you still you?
		You know, why do people see ghosts, you know, fully clothed, you know, acting and speaking as they did, quote unquote, in life, unquote.
		You know, and these are questions that began to really vex me.
		And as I proceeded through my early years in this field, it really began to be, I began to say what even experienced paranormal investigators will sometimes say today.
		The longer I do this, the more questions I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let me stop you for a second, because you mentioned children.
		Over the years, I've done a lot of shows, Paul, with a group from Utah that record EVPs.
		And I know that you know what EVPs are.
		Now, I have tried six ways from Sunday.
		They're not a profit group.
		They don't write books.
		They don't make money.
		They just do this because they believe in it.
		Now, over the years, Paul, I've heard some voices recorded that I would say 50% of what I hear, number one, are children.
		And it's kind of heartbreaking, Paul.
		They're children.
		And sometimes they say things that, you know, like it's cold in here or it's dark and scary here or, you know, things like that.
		I can't shoot holes in this technology.
		I just can't.
		And nor the motives of those who are doing the recording.
		I believe it's true.
		I believe these really, honestly, are voices from elsewhere, but it raises so many questions, Paul.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		It does.
		Well, I have looked obviously at EVPs, and of course, we didn't really think of it in that way in the 70s and 80s, but as time has gone by, you know, everybody knows that it's become a popular medium for recording these things.
		There are many explanations, and you certainly know as a person who's a professional in broadcasting that there are possible explanations other than the one that's kind of accepted in the supernatural vein.
		One thing I ask myself is I've also heard a lot of children.
		I've also heard them in emotional situations.
		But what happens in emotional situations?
		My point of view over the years has become that we're not dealing with a spirit world and a physical world.
		We're dealing with many, many, many worlds.
		I eventually started to base the theories, because it's the only way I could explain what I was seeing and hearing in these cases, on quantum physics.
		Now, of course, that's a popular, I guess, way to do it these days.
		But there's a theory in quantum mechanics, which not everybody accepts, but it's called the bubble theory of the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do I know about it?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		So I believe, and I believe I actually have photographs of the boundaries of these things, that when we are seeing or hearing these things, we are very possibly seeing or hearing live people who are going about their day saying things in these parallel worlds, these bubble universes.
		And when we have, I've seen in many cases, when we have emotional experiences, when we have traumatic experiences, even fears, anger, things like this, it sends out waves, if you will, almost like a rock thrown into a pond across the multiverse.
		And I think that those are the things that you're very likely to see and hear in paranormal experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sure makes sense to me.
		Yeah, it makes A lot of sense to me, Paul.
		Now, in here, it says, why are we so fascinated with the paranormal?
		That's so easy.
		I mean, isn't it the biggest question of all?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		The paranormal is the mother of science and it's the mother of religion.
		You know, I laugh almost when science and religion come to grips, you know, or don't come to grips with this subject because they're both the children of the paranormal.
		Had there been no questions to be answered, had there been nothing unexplained, we would never have asked the questions that started science or religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, what happens to us when physical life ends?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is no bigger question.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		No, there isn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There isn't.
		So why are we fascinated with the paranormal?
		Because we want to know.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		So I think your idea dwindles to insignificance as a question when it comes to questions of life and death and life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you may be onto it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe these are just sort of, I don't know, breakthrough echoes from a multiverse.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's my opinion.
		And as I say, I didn't ace my way through physics in school.
		Okay.
		But nevertheless, this is what I believe I see going on for decades in the trenches.
		I don't see any other way to explain this stuff.
		And I'll go through all the cases that you want tonight to illustrate this, stuff that knocked my socks off and still do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's a question I really do want to ask because I've been troubled by this for years in dealing with the whole paranormal field.
		Being able to distinguish between somebody who's having a paranormal, a legitimate paranormal experience, and somebody who has a legitimate mental illness.
		And that's tough.
		I can tell you, Paul, I get, oh, I don't know, 3,000 emails a day, something like that.
		I mean, a lot.
		I get a lot of emails.
		Even in the emails and the stories that you get, trying to make that distinction is really hard.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Well, as a matter of fact, when I was in the seminary, I pulled a few strings and got them to set up a course in abnormal psychology for me, which I continued into my graduate studies.
		And the idea was that I wanted to, I had some sympathetic faculty members.
		I wanted to see what precisely the difference was between people who have mental illnesses and people who are having paranormal experiences.
		And believe me, I got an eye full.
		I worked at the former, fortunately, Ogdensburg State Hospital in New York State and Norwich State Hospital in Connecticut.
		And at each place, I encountered a lot of strange things.
		Have you ever looked into the eyes of a schizophrenic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It's a very, very disconcerting experience in some cases because of the knowing look you get in return.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I got the impression very strongly over a period of several years that, or at least the question arose, is it possible that rather than having chemical imbalances in their brains that create the illusions of what they imagine, is it possible that they have doors in their minds open to worlds that really exist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, seeing and hearing things that we are not.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And so, you know, and what were these people, how were these people treated in so-called primitive societies?
		Generally, they were considered holy.
		And we consider them nuts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		All right.
		And even more worrisome, Paul, if a percentage of these, whatever percentage, are legitimate paranormal experiences, people who are hearing and seeing things that are real to them and we just can't see it, then how many sane but let's see, what would be the right word for them, sane but sensitive in a way that we are not people are in asylums?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, there aren't that many people in asylums anymore.
		I was working when there were a lot more inpatients than there are today.
		Today they fill your pockets with Librem or Prozac and off you go.
		And what does that do?
		And I've actually addressed groups of psychiatrists on this, and they come up to me at the end and say, oh, you're going to wreck psychiatry.
		I said, first, I don't have the slightest influence to do anything at all to psychiatry.
		And secondly, I think you people ought to look at this subject because I'm not competent to answer these questions.
		And privately, several of them will always come up to me and say, you know, I've wanted the same thing.
		There are just too many unanswered questions here.
		Sometimes I would encounter people who apparently had mental illnesses and paranormal phenomena intermixed.
		Talk about getting into a tangle.
		It's a really, really difficult but important question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And again, I wonder how many people are either institutionalized or laid out by Prozac or whatever the latest is that ought not be because they really are experiencing what we just simply can't detect.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hear from people all the time who are victims of this, seemingly.
		And they ask the same questions.
		And we need people working on these issues.
		And, of course, that implies that we have to adopt a new worldview, a holistic worldview, that modern medicine is just kind of beginning to do, but it's kind of reluctant to do.
		They've only just come to grips with acupuncture.
		I mean, never mind the paranormal mixing with alleged mental illnesses.
		So, I mean, these are questions.
		As I say in my book, in my last book, it's the first day of school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		You had that experience where you heard the children, you heard the ox, and all the rest of it.
		What other experiences have you had that you would say definitely made a believer of you?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Oh, goodness.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		How long is your show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a long show.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Well, certainly there was the weeping Indian ghost, 1972, the case of the disturbed grave, 1973, but probably the one that really gave me a baptism by fire was in 1974 when I was working with Ed Lorraine Warren, and it was the Bridgeport, Connecticut poltergeist outbreak.
		Now, if anybody is of our vintage, they may remember that all over the news.
		There was headlines all over the world.
		And it was Bridgeport, Connecticut, and there was a little girl involved, her two parents, and the things that occurred were such as this.
		I stood in the kitchen with a number of Bridgeport policemen and firemen, and we saw a 300-pound refrigerator Pick itself up, turn itself around, put itself back down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Stuff was flying off the I myself was injured by a flying television set.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there are police officers to back this story up.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Yeah.
		I have copies of official police reports from this case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
		This is what I missed.
		I had no idea.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Yeah.
		1974 at Bridgeport.
		One of the police officers came into the house, stuff was flying around.
		He backed down the sidewalk, sat in the cruiser, and wouldn't come out.
		In 1998, I was doing a book signing for Faces at the Window, and a young woman came up to me and said, you know, my grandfather was a, rather, my father was a firefighter in Bridgeport at that time, and we couldn't find him for three days.
		He had been to the house, was so frightened, he went into the apartment above their garage and wouldn't come out.
		This really shook people up.
		The woman in the house, Mrs. Gooden, her name was, was injured by a flying television set as well.
		Her toe was broken, and she just, when I was arriving, she just was arriving from the hospital.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you back up on this story a little bit?
		Because I haven't heard it.
		I don't know why and how I've not heard about it before, but I'd kind of like to know how this began and hear more about it in detail.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Okay, well, if I knew then what I think I know now, I'd say it started this way.
		There are entities that I refer to as parasites.
		These are not human, not nice entities whom I believe live in other parts of the multiverse, if you will, and who literally live by sucking our energy.
		One of the earliest traditions of vampires, I mean, way back, ancient China, ancient Middle East, and this is an actual translation from the ancient Babylonian, life-sucking ghosts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a succubus, right?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		And this is what these entities that I would run into who did not seem to be human would do.
		And I believe that the poltergeist is one of these entities, one of these parasites who's gotten so much to eat, if you will, that it becomes unbelievably powerful.
		And it can seemingly manipulate space and time, such as by, you know, throwing refrigerators around.
		So this case began with me on the way down to the Warren's house to hopefully have dinner.
		I was home from the seminary for Thanksgiving vacation, so I thought.
		And when I came up to their house in Monroe, Connecticut, Lorraine came running out and said, Paul, are you in a high spiritual state right now?
		Which was her way of saying, you know, there's a big case about to break, and, you know, why don't you come along with us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there.
		That's a good point to sort of hang people up, if you will, a hook, I think they call it, Paul.
		So this is a Warren case.
		And yes, of course, I've heard of the Warren case, but televisions and refrigerators flying around.
		That one, well, I hadn't heard that.
		We'll be right back.
		Here I am.
		Paulino is my guest.
		We're talking about the paranormal, and he obviously is well qualified to be talking about it and has a lot to say.
		I can't resist.
		You know, I get these fast blasts as the show goes along.
		And here comes one from Steve in Clearwater, Florida, an obvious spokesperson for the anti-global warming crowd, and he says, and I'll give it to you exactly, Art, the C-Level is not going to raise.
		That's R-A-I-S-E.
		If all the ice melts.
		I'm so sick of you people saying it.
		It's like ice in a dumb glass.
		That's D-U-M glass.
		When the ice melts, it does not flood onto the table.
		It is absorbed into the glass, and the seas is much bigger than the ice cap.
		And Steve is writing from Florida.
		We'll be right back.
		All right.
		Back now to Paulino.
		And Paul, I really do want sort of a detailed story about the Warrens.
		My God, I had no idea some of that went on.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're very welcome to all the description you need.
		We were, excuse me, we were, I went into the city and found this little bungalow in the city of Bridgeport.
		And the first thing that happened was the woman came out and grabbed my arm as soon as I was introduced as a seminary student, brought me in and said, have you ever seen anything like this in your life?
		And I never had.
		The place was an unbelievable disaster.
		The thing, as she called it, had taken clothes out of their drawers.
		They'd flown across the room into the little girls' toy baby carriages.
		She had several of those, and the thing would push them around the house.
		Now, this wasn't happening when I first went in.
		Religious pictures and pictures of all kinds really had come off the wall and had been flying around.
		Silverware off the sink, everything you can imagine was either on the floor, off the wall, or in the bathtub.
		Immediately, as soon as I arrived, things would begin to fall from the shelves in the bathroom into the bathtub.
		But that was pretty much the only thing that happened because I found a pattern that I've found in other cases of this kind in this Bridgeport house.
		For one thing, once we heard the story of how the family had begun to experience this, it became obvious that they had been in this house for a very long time with a lot of pent-up energy.
		In other words, the little girl had been, they were over-protective of this child.
		She'd been adopted, and she had been in school and had been abused by some of the other students by being kicked in the back and had been slightly injured, and she had been in the house for six weeks.
		Hadn't been allowed to go outside, had no friends, and the people themselves were not very active in the outside world.
		A fellow went out to work every day, but the mother was home.
		Everything was in this house, all pent up.
		That's one thing.
		Secondly, we had a situation where they were very, very religious.
		Now, strangely enough, I found that people who are very religious, these people were devout Roman Catholics, they often have more of this trouble than other people do.
		I started to wonder about that question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any thoughts on why?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, they seem to be fixated on the spiritual in a way that is not entirely healthy.
		I sometimes find, not to criticize anybody's spiritualities, but I sometimes find that there are spiritualities that are less constructed, some are less constructive than others.
		Some are less positive than others.
		In recent years, of course, a lot of positive things have come into some of the spiritualities that weren't, and that's another issue.
		But I think that there was a lot of negativity in the spirituality of the old-timers, so to speak, sometimes in the Roman church, and this did not help.
		There was a lot of fear.
		When it's based on fear rather than love, it seems to, well, not maybe attract, but that doesn't seem to harm the presence of these parasites that I mentioned before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly agree with you that dwelling on things spiritual invites them in.
		It opens the negative way, yeah.
		Yeah, it opens the first door that allows them in.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		And I always find that the ducks, as it were, have to be lined up just right for these things to occur, particularly poltergeist.
		And you had, number one, this kind of fixated negative spirituality.
		You had these people sort of fixated on each other, just in this little house, you know, and having no outside connections really in any healthy way.
		That was the other thing.
		You had a little girl who was reaching the age of puberty.
		She was 10 years old and just sort of coming up and starting to grow.
		And this often is parapsychologists will say, well, this is the age where a lot of poltergeist will strike.
		Now, they will generally say that poltergeists are things that form from energy that come out of people with traumatic experiences or children going through puberty or whatever.
		And I don't believe that.
		I think these are parasites which feed upon that energy and just get stronger and stronger if people allow them to.
		So in any case, in this house, we had all these things going on.
		I find that when I or someone, not just me, but anyone else who comes into the mix, so to speak, is not known to the entities, things will quiet down.
		I usually find things will quiet down when I go into a house, at least for the first day or so.
		But we were there for three days.
		We really didn't leave very frequently, only to eat.
		And even then, one of us was usually there, one of us being either Ed, Lorraine, or me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They wanted you there.
		Why?
		They wanted this figured out.
		They wanted you to exorcise it, get rid of it, whatever.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		They wanted us to come in and fix it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fix it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Now, in ensuing years, I find that's really not how it works.
		Now, we also had a priest with us, Father Bill Charbonneau, who I believe is still a priest of the Archdiocese of Hartford, Connecticut.
		And I have not heard from him in a number of years, but I believe he's still there and gets away somehow with being a paranormal investigator or did.
		And so there were really four of us here.
		We had requested that, and of course with my theological background at the time, I believed these were demons.
		And again, these are words for realities that we've always experienced.
		And I find that our language is not really quite up to talking about this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It isn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you can use the word parasites, or you can substitute the word demons, I suppose.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		You can.
		In a way, they're interchangeable, but demons has a lot of theological baggage that I'm not prepared to attach to parasites at this point.
		However, at that time, I was.
		So we contacted the Diocese of Bridgeport, Connecticut.
		The bishop didn't want to even hear it, and the Chancellor of the Diocese said, forget it.
		They were not going to come in.
		And, of course, the problem was that the press had gotten wind of this.
		And there were literally policemen and firemen and reporters walking in and out of this house with impunity.
		And I said to Ed, you know, maybe how can you have this is chaos?
		We can't get anything done in here.
		Because we were trying to observe in order to determine whether this really was a demonic infestation, which, given the nature of the phenomenon, didn't take us long to answer in the affirmative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think the bishop was uninterested?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, based on the kind of thing you were telling him, the sort of things you're telling me, why not?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, because the film The Exorcist had just come out.
		And you had a priest in there getting thrown through the window, and you had people outside this house.
		According to the police, there were up to 10,000 people gathered outside this house at the height of this.
		And they fully expected Father Charbonneau or me to come flying out this window, like the priest did in the movie.
		People are not generally in this realm deep thinkers.
		Not to seem smug, but they just aren't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but the exorcism ritual is an old, well-entrenched, if not frequently used, thing in the Catholic Church, right?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		But they don't do it when reporters are standing in the room.
unidentified		Okay.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And that was the real problem.
		Later on, I understand that a priest did come in, and Father Charbonneau at that time did bless the house, and things kind of quieted down for a few hours, but then they started up again.
		But to make a long story short, I did witness all these things that I mentioned.
		I was standing in the kitchen at one time, and my job in this case was pretty much to keep an eye on the little girl to make sure that she was not doing any of these things.
		Now, there were one or two things that she was doing.
		Now, she'd be in her 40s today.
		She had a cat, and the man, Mr. Gooden, her father, adopted father, swore that this cat would come to the top of the stairs and demand in a voice to be let out.
		And this story got out to the press, and with all the bizarre things I've seen in my life, I'll never forget the sight of reporters from ABC, NBC, and CBS standing in front of this cat holding microphones out to ask them to say something.
unidentified		All right.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Because we're close to New York here, so up they came.
		Well, it seemed very clear to me that the girl was making these noises.
		But other than that, I mean, a girl picking up a 300-pound refrigerator.
		A 300-pound bureau across the road, and she wasn't even in the room.
		At one point, among the many things that happened, we'd been in the house for at least two days, and the Warrens had gone off to be on a television program, and I was in the house myself.
		There was a Bridgeport Post reporter, a neighbor, and the family.
		Something began arriving.
		This was my first real experience with what I today call parasites.
		I got the very strong impression.
		And I say impression, you want to call it psychic, whatever.
		I mean, I wouldn't dare mention it.
		It was bad enough I was doing this in the eyes of my church authorities, but if I'd mentioned anything about psychic or mediumistic, I would have been out the door like a shot.
		So I kept quiet about this, but I felt very clearly four entities arriving.
		They did not feel human to me, but they did not feel evil either.
		They felt sterile, lifeless, but yet they were alive.
		That's the best way I can describe it.
		They arrived in her room, and I could see four, they're very, you know, dimly, of course, gauzy kind of figures.
		The air was full of electricity, and these are all things that I would experience many times in the future.
		You know, I got to know how these things were acting and everything else.
		And in they came.
		I put the little girl instinctively, I put her behind me, and one of them stood right in front of me, got around me, and threw her across the room.
		The family, the mother began to cry.
		I began to read a prayer, but the thing, and here's the mistake that I made and that I learned you never do again, and that's I became angry.
		And the thing fed upon it.
		Again, it got stronger and stronger and stronger.
		So I pulled the family out of the house, and we went and stood on the sidewalk.
		Fortunately, the police had cordoned off the street as I either ran and there was nobody.
		We wouldn't go into the middle of a crowd.
		But I find that when you are, these things, they feed upon fear, anger, enmity of any kind, hatred.
		And I can't put a scientific finger on that, but that's what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, in a number of other ghost encounters that I believe were true, the person also got angry, and it really escalated the whole thing.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		This is what these things eat.
		And that's the clearest I can put it.
		They're cosmic mosquitoes, if you will.
		And I believe they're responsible for our legends of demons, vampires, or what have you, whatever word you want to put on them.
		And I feel they are a real danger, not only to families, but, you know, not to get nuts with this, but I mean, you wonder what influence do they have in the halls of government?
		Because they're very intelligent.
		They learn very quickly.
		I've seen some that have followed families for generations.
		I'm working with a, I can't tell you who it is, but she's in upper west side of New York, sort of a significant cultural figure in American culture.
		And apparently, there's a parasite that has followed the family for some time.
		And we're working with that now to put it to bed, so to speak, and help this person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These parasites, these are not humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These never were, in your opinion, human?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, even terms like were and are don't have much meaning in the multiverse because there is no time.
		Even Einstein recognized that.
		However, it is a good question.
		Is it possible that these are or in our terms were human?
		I have never encountered one that, in my opinion, was human.
		Now, on the other hand, I see no logical reason why they shouldn't be.
		I mean, we all know parasitic humans and vampiristic people, for heaven's sake.
		Why shouldn't this continue?
		Perhaps there's so little humanity left that I just can't tell.
		When we get into the depths of multiverse thinking, as I call it, if you want to call it the theology or the philosophy of the multiverse, what it means for us, you start getting into shared lives.
		And in a way, we share the lives of these things in a very real way.
		But I'm jumping the gun here, but I mean, that's another question.
		But I believe they are, if you want to call them alien, you wouldn't be wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was about to bring that up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say under some circumstances, somebody might say extraterrestrial, and that word would just be fine.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose it would.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		We're trained through science and science fiction, certainly, to think of aliens as being from other planets, but I think they're from other universes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But without question, I mean, you saw things flying across the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw it with your own eyes.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I identified them.
		Oh, yeah.
		This is all in the presence of witnesses.
		And the little girl, the whole schmear, it's in my 1998 book.
		It's all in there, including the copies of the police reports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the little girl the source of this, in your opinion?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		No, I believe she was the focal point of it because she was tremendously pent up, as I described.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And these things, and I find that a number of things, the number of ducks, as I say, have to be aligned up, not just the people, not just the spirituality or lack thereof, but the geotechnics under the house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A conduit for it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Well, you know, what are we dealing with here?
		What's the glue that holds the universe, or we want to say the multiverse, together?
		It's electromagnetism, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		We're electrical.
		Our muscles, our brains, and so are these things.
		They're part of nature.
		I don't even believe in the term supernatural.
		These things are part of nature, and it's a part of nature we just haven't really defined yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At any point, did you enter into any form of communication with them?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question.
		In this particular case, I did not.
		However, in subsequent cases, I have, I believe, studied them in a very intimate way.
		There were cases where, and this is mainly in the 1990s, I really started doing this.
		One case in particular, I'm thinking of in 1998, in which a, and people ask me, what is the worst case you ever deal with?
		And I say, well, they're sometimes the quietest cases.
		They're the ones where the victim in the case develops a bond with the parasite.
		And you think of the old stories of vampires, you know, with their slaves or whatever.
		And I had a woman in Rhode Island who was writing love poems to this thing.
		She was convinced that it was a lover from a former life and all this kind of stuff.
		But I went in and I did the thing that had parasite written all over it.
		It would hide out in the wall, if you don't mind, of the boys.
		There was a young boy in the house, eight years old, and I don't like that at all when they're hanging around kids, to say the least.
		And she immediately began to respond to what I was saying.
		She recognized it, and she began to become positive.
		And my prescription for these things is you bring in, it's the Peter Pan theory, so to speak.
		Think happy thoughts.
		Bring in positive energy to displace the negative energy.
		Best way I can put it, and it works every time.
		So she immediately responded to that and began to do it.
		So there wasn't any real emergency here.
		So I had a chance to sit in this room and study this thing.
		And it knew I was there.
		I certainly knew it was there.
		And this is the best way I can put it.
		I really got a feeling we had each other's numbers.
		This thing was very, very ancient with whatever meaning that can have in the month of Everse.
		It was very wise.
		It had done this many, many times.
		And it was definitely not human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you describe it as neutral or did it have evil intent?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have to use these words for the audience, Or was it of course, of course?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, morality and evil intent, these are, I hate to use the term relative, but they really are.
		This thing was, I mean, does a mosquito consider itself evil when it bites you or gives you, you know, evil or whatever.
		It was neutral.
		It was neutral.
		Neutral.
		I've seen, I think there are a number of species of these things, and I've seen them neutral.
		I've seen them very hostile.
		And I've seen them almost not friendly, but non-hostile.
		They seem to have a culture.
		They seem to have at times clear leaders.
		I've seen them hunting in packs, as in the Bridgeport case.
		I wouldn't have called it that then, but I certainly would now.
		So we're dealing with another form of life here that is a threat to us, if only to the peace and serenity of our families, perhaps even to our governments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe to whatever physical vision you had of these things when they were sort of halfway there, what were you seeing?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the Bridgeport case, and a number of cases since then, I've seen them in different ways.
		I'm primarily a feeler of these things.
		In other words, I'm very good at telling where they are and sort of just by feeling the electrical energies and this sort of thing.
		But at times I do see them.
		And in this Bridgeport case, they were rather gauzy.
		That's the best term I can use, sort of whitish, but not very clear.
		The clearest one I've ever seen was in 1998 in a case in New England here where there was a woman who was this is a classic parasite situation, a woman who was very vulnerable, a victim.
		And this thing was literally trying to feed from her.
		And I followed it out into a yard, the backyard of the house.
		It was very dark.
		And the electrical energy that these things seemed to generate was very strong.
		I walked down toward the middle of it, because I'm not afraid of these things.
		They're more afraid of me than I am of them, I think.
		And I could see it.
		Arms.
		It looked almost like a flash of lightning that kind of stayed there for a second.
		And it was almost like plasma.
		And I believe these may be plasma-based life forms.
		On the other hand, I think the more they are in, if you want to say, our bubble world, the clearer they appear to be.
		I've run into parasites that were, particularly one in Canada in 1973, I believe, and it was a really, really clear man in a checkered shirt.
		I called the other the ghost in the checkered shirt, 1975.
		And, you know, it seemed to be, it was really very much in our world.
		Others that are not do not seem very clear.
		So I think this plasma-like look is not what they actually necessarily look like, but I think that it's what they appear to be depending on how close they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Amazing stuff.
		Paul, hold on tight.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Just absolutely incredible stuff.
		Paul Eno is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Parasites.
		Paul Eno is describing these as parasites.
		Maybe that's a good description.
		Maybe to manifest themselves and do physical things in our universe, they have to take energy from our universe.
		After all, our universe operates on a certain set of physics that apparently they can only manipulate when they take something from us.
		Fascinating stuff.
		Paul, you know, here, he'll be right back.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paul, you've described the Bridgeport stuff as gauzy when you saw them and with an electromagnetic aspect to them.
		And that makes sense to me.
		And again, I'm sure to manipulate things with our laws of physics, you've got to draw some sort of energy.
		And so parasites seems like a correct word for them.
		What I'm wondering is, toward the end of your investigations, or at any point in your investigations, did you bring either any video equipment, audio equipment, or electromagnetic detectors of any kind?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		However, cameras, recording equipment, and a gauss meter, the famous EMF meter people often tout as ghost detectors, which I think is rather silly.
		But I do bring those.
		And as a matter of fact, there was a very interesting case of parasites in 1983 that I investigated in Uxbridge, Massachusetts.
		I call it the case of the almost suicide.
		And this was a case where I brought in for the first time an electromagnetic field meter, the Gauss meter as they call it, and I was able to begin to trace what appeared to be a, because you know, electromagnetic magnetic fields form around electrical currents.
		And when these currents are going from one place to another with no apparent source, I begin to wonder.
		Now, that being said, you have to realize that these things, this is why I don't take them very seriously, they can be affected by a radar set up to six or seven miles away.
		If you have a military base or an airport, almost the Earth is a giant electromagnetic generator.
		I mean, that can affect these things.
		However, again, when you do a lot of process of elimination, you can occasionally find things that I think are interesting.
		I found that when you have a reverse polarity on the EMF field, you can sometimes trace it from one place that comes sort of out of nowhere into another place that kind of goes into nowhere, so to speak.
		And I suspect these are the energies that reach between these bubbles, if you will.
		And I believe I actually have photographs of those membranes, those borders between the worlds.
		And I think that these parasites seem to have the ability to, if you want to say, ride these things between worlds or reach almost like octopi, I suppose, in some way.
		That seems to be what occurs.
		Now, in this case in Uxbridge, Massachusetts, and in a number of others I've worked with, they seem to be able to reach not only into our bubble, if you will, but into others that are nearby.
		For example, in a case In Uxbridge, Massachusetts, there was a feeling when I checked out this house in this bathroom upstairs in this very large old farmhouse that there was a terribly negative act going on, something like suicide.
		It just jumped right out at me.
		And it stopped right at the door.
		I mean, the rest of the house seemed, you know, you had the influence of the parasites, but you didn't have this feeling of someone killing themselves.
		It seemed to me that this entity in the house was feeding upon that event, not getting enough to eat, and was reaching into the house to see if it could feed off some of the people.
		Now, when push came to shove, I asked the woman in the house, who was a nurse with a single mother with several children, asked her, you know, has anybody ever committed suicide in that bathroom?
		And she looked at me very strangely, and she said, you know, no, they haven't, not that I know of, but I got her to talk finally.
		Getting people to tell you everything is always difficult.
		It turns out she had considered very seriously committing suicide in that very bathroom at a time when she thought an adult cousin would find her rather than the children.
		In quantum mechanics, in these theories of the multiverse, all possibilities exist.
		They're already there.
		So she actually did or would commit suicide in this bathroom.
		The parasites were attracted to it in a world in which it was taking place, fed upon it, didn't get quite enough, and came into ours where it had not taken place, and we're feeding upon it.
		This is wild stuff, but I see this all the time.
		I really do.
		This one case I call it the haunted policeman is going on in Vermont right now.
		We're still working with him.
		My son Ben and I, who's 15, and he's great at this.
		But this is the sort of thing that occurs.
		I mean, you've got multiple worlds all being used by these things, and this seems to be how they live.
		So, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to imagine what just the consideration of suicide, which would be a very strong emotion, of course, why it would bring, well, just a strong emotion, I guess, would bring the parasite in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, as you mentioned, it wanted more or needed more to continue to exist in this plane and began looking in the rest of the house.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I see it again and again.
		This house in Vermont, where the policeman lives, his parents live upstairs.
		He lives in the basement.
		And he would say, it's funny, he would say when he had a very stormy relationship with his fiancé, he said, gee, funny, Paul, you should bring this up because whenever we'd fight, the thing would get worse and worse.
		It would materialize.
		They'd see it walking across the room.
		And I believe we actually got a photograph of it, or Ben did.
		And it was his first case.
		And I was afraid to show him the picture because you can see this.
		What even our photo expert admitted looked like a hooded figure standing behind this poor man's shoulder.
		But this is a lot more to the case, but there's something going on, seemingly in the backyard of this house.
		Ben and I were drawn, we have the same sort of tendencies psychically, I suppose.
		We're drawn to this spot in the backyard.
		And it was nothing to do with the people who live there now, but it was taking place sometime.
		And with the multiverse, it could be in the future.
		Like this suicide, not even having occurred in our world.
		And the thing was feeding off this, not getting enough, and going into the house every now and then to try and get something else to eat from the people there.
		So these things seem to be able to move on multiple levels in multiple parallel universes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paul, you mentioned photographs a number of times.
		I'm sure they're in your books.
		Have you posted any photos on a website?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are quite a few of them at the NewEnglandGhosts.com, which is my shamelessly self-promoting website.
		And I must point out that I'm very careful with photography.
		Now, I learned photography at your expense in the U.S. Coast Guard.
		So, I mean, I have a smattering of experience with it.
		I know what lens flare is and all these anomalies.
		But nevertheless, I have two experts check these things because nobody can say this is a ghost.
		But they can say, well, this is not this.
		It's not a reflection.
		It's not lens flare.
		It's not this, that, and the other thing.
		But so you think you might have an anomaly.
		So that's essentially what I do rely on.
		But I always take it with a grain of salt.
		But these are things, too, that we've seen with the naked eye as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Children appear more sensitive to all of this sort of thing than adults do.
		And, you know, I've known this for years.
		I wonder if it's that children just don't know that it cannot be true, so they see it or they hear it.
		And then when they get older and they're told it's impossible, then they somehow close the door.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree with that.
		You know, we certainly start out as very pure as our ancestors did.
		I think our ancestors knew all this stuff.
		And they put it in their own terms.
		But children, you know, it's educated, quote unquote, out of us.
		You know, and that's very much to our detriment.
		And we were the only societies where that's occurred.
		We're the philosophical freaks of human history.
		You know, every other society before us pretty much knew this stuff was true.
unidentified		So we're the ones with a belief problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is to our detriment, and here's why I believe it.
		Not going all the way to the idea of parasites or ghosts or anything else, life is nothing but a constant choice.
		In other words, you come to forks in the road most every day, some more important than others, and you've got to make decisions.
		Now, if you have learned to trust your intuition, you make good decisions.
		If you have trained yourself away from that and you don't listen to your feelings, you make a lot of bad decisions.
unidentified		That's very true.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		You second-guess yourself.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I always tell my son, as other people who are listening may tell their children, don't second-guess yourself on a test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		The first answer you pick pops into your mind is usually the correct one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's a kind of a talent, or it's something that we all have, and many of us now as adults ignore.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		Well, that's true in spirituality as well.
		You don't check your brain at the door, but you keep it in its place.
		It's the heart that finds God.
		and it can find its way through the multiverse as well.
		I don't know if you want to hear some more cases, but...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do because you've got some Whoppers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're really good ones.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		The one that really, and I may have, when I was on with George, I may have repeated this case, but I think it's worth saying again if anybody's heard it, because it really is an incredible case.
		I've never seen anything like it before or since.
		But it was the one that really, really pushed me over the edge into what I call multiverse thinking.
		And I discovered quantum mechanics after this because I couldn't explain it in any other way.
		This occurred in 1978, and I was out of graduate school and didn't have a dime to my name.
		The phone rang one day, and it was a young lady from the University of Connecticut.
		I was living in Connecticut.
		And she said that they had had a very terrifying experience while visiting Maine the previous week, she and her sister.
		The sister had been well known as being a believer in reincarnation and all these sorts of things and the occult and all that.
		Not really involved with it, but a believer in it.
		They were driving around a corner in Maine in this little town that turned out to be York Harbor, a lovely place near the coast.
		And the young girl said, suddenly, stop the car.
		That's my house.
		And they were with some friends, and the girl, the guy instinctively stopped the car.
		She jumped out and ran up to this house, and they figured, well, she's really around the bend this time, literally.
		And they followed her up to the house, but not before she'd started to pound on the door.
		Well, a woman in her 40s answered the door and screamed when she saw this young girl.
		And the man of the house, this turned out to be a childless couple in their 40s, he came.
		He couldn't speak when he saw this girl.
		Everybody had the willies by this time, and the young girl finally said, I'm sorry to have bothered you, but I just saw this house and I felt as though I knew this house very well.
		And the man, once he found his tongue, said, you should know this house.
		You haunt it.
unidentified		What?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		You haunt it.
		So I said, well, I've got to get to the bottom of this, but this is incredible.
		So they all got very nervous and the kids kind of pulled away, but not before they caught a name on the mailbox.
		So as luck would have it, my mother's family had had a summer home in a town near this one for over a century.
		So needless to say, we knew people in the town.
		So I pulled a few strings, got a name, found out the address and all this stuff, phone number.
		Didn't dare call the guy.
		So I wrote a letter to this man.
		I told him the girl had contacted me, and every reference I could think of, every professor I'd ever studied with, et cetera, sent him the letter.
		In the meantime, a priest I know was able to pull a string or two and we got this girl into the Institute of Living in Hartford, Connecticut, which is, I guess, today part of Hartford Hospital's mental health program, and she took the MMPI, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, which is a pre-diagnostic tool that psychiatrists use to see if you need further treatment.
		So she's doing that.
		Meanwhile, I got, three days later, I got a phone call from the man at this house in New York, Maine.
		And his voice was still shaking.
		And he said, you know, we have to talk to somebody.
		We really checked you out.
		And he was afraid, most of all, that people would think they were crazy, naturally, and people would bring in perhaps the press.
		Up I went to Maine, and this is the story I heard.
		They had seen this girl in transparent form coming down the stairs, looking out the front window, and doing all sorts of different things.
		They were so terrified of being in their own house that they wouldn't leave each other's side while they were inside the place.
		The girl, in the meantime, had said that she had had dreams of being in this house, coming down the stairs, looking out the front window, doing all the things these people said they had seen her doing in the house.
		So I said, what the heck is this?
		You know, I still hadn't, I was still confused from the Bridgeport case and all these other things.
		And I said, this is not a spirit of the dead.
		It's not a demon or whatever.
		And what is this?
		So there we are.
		And it turns out the girl was not abnormally neurotic or anything in any way, and she was very...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had the girl, was she claiming that she had been there previously in some sort of spirit form or in another incarnation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or what was she saying?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		She was saying that she had had dreams of doing all these things that people had never met before.
		Again, if I knew then, what I believe I know now, I would say you have people experiencing the same parallel universes.
		Because interestingly, this girl said that she, in these dreams, had been a mother living in that house and that she had had children.
		And there were no children in the house when they got there in this reality.
		And as a matter of fact, she said when she came around that corner and first saw the place, the question that involuntarily popped into her mind was, where are the toys in the yard?
		So I really couldn't square that.
		But now I would say she really was and is living in this house in a parallel life.
		Because I believe that our life is not just our life.
		We kind of belong to each other.
		And our lives spread across the multiverse in, again, on multiple levels, in multiple consciousnesses.
		I think that we are not quite at the point in our evolution where we can deal with this in our full consciousness.
		So that our subconscious, which of course includes our memories, our imagination, all these things that they really cannot pinpoint as far as the location of the brain is concerned, are really these other lives we're living.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you think that when we die, our consciousness dies with us?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe that we do die, not even our bodies.
		That's a mouthful.
		Okay, all right.
		All right, let me put it this way.
		Again, you have to kind of forget everything you ever thought you thought you knew about individualism or about ourselves.
		And with all due respect to the framers of our Declaration of Independence, I don't believe the individual exists.
		Our sense of self, and Amit Gotswami, the physicist slash mystic, has said this.
		He believes, as I do, that our sense of self is an illusion.
		It is simply a sense of self-reference.
		And that life, memory, imagination, all consciousness is shared.
		And again, this is what's present in the most ancient teachings of all the most ancient religions.
		So that when we die, when this body that our consciousness happens to be in right now is used up, it's no more serious than a flake of skin falling off your finger because what happens?
		You're already present in millions, maybe infinite numbers of other lives, other bodies, and what's subconscious simply seems to come forward and become conscious.
		Again, this isn't something I made up.
		These are things that appear to be happening in cases with which I've been involved.
		One of the most notable was really occurring in my own house.
		We had a miscarriage, my wife and I. We were married for 26 years.
		We had a miscarriage in our first two years of marriage.
		People will meet us.
		We have two sons.
		People will meet us and say, you have three children, don't you?
		And I'll say, well, no, but it turns out that we do.
		Because this child, who was never born in our time stream, in our bubble, if you will, was in many others.
		And he has become a guardian for us.
		Now, this is the opposite of parasites.
		When you finish talking about parasites, I always like to reassure people that it's really, there are far more good things that can happen to us in the multiverse than bad things.
		And one of them is the incredible experience of having someone who, it was an unborn child of yours, who is a tremendously powerful protector.
		It began when Ben, who is very sensitive, my youngest son who's 15, helps me in this.
		I began to say, Dad, there's somebody standing by my bed at night.
		And I went in and we felt him.
		And I don't put a lot of stock in psychics, but there are a couple who really stand out.
		It's amazing how there are some.
		One of them said, his name is Gregory.
		And that's exactly what we had planned to name him.
		And pardon me if I get emotional here because this is very close to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And it is the most beautiful, incredible, holy experience.
		And it's just, again, multiple universes, some of which, if we realize that we are, that it's not about us, that it's not about me or you, it is about us, that we can, when we are finished with this or this life, this body, pass into one that's just as physical, but in which we are far more aware, in which, according to the bubble theory, the laws of physics may be somewhat different.
		And I have seen helping ancestors, including those who people never knew in their own lives, do incredibly beautiful things to protect people, sometimes to help fight parasites, and sort of complete the circle of goodness that I think surrounds us far more than the negativity does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, we appear, Paul, to die.
		And when we do, that specific consciousness seems to die.
		Or are you suggesting that it simply continues to exist along with everything else?
		Is that what you're saying?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's a very difficult concept for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		We don't see it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		You know, we make the mistake in our lives of thinking that things are what they appear to be, and that's one of the greatest mistakes we can make in life at all, in business even or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you're right about that.
		Listen, again, we're going quick, Paul.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		We've got to break here.
		Hold tight.
		Paul Eno is my guest.
		This is good stuff, and we'll get right back to it.
		Here I am.
		You know, Paul Eno is a fantastic guest.
		I want to know what happens to us when we die.
		Not as if I won't find out soon enough, I suppose, but I really do want to know, and I know a lot of you want to know.
		Is it like there's not so much as a blink, so much as a, I don't know, a little, you know, like when the power dims or something.
		In other words, when you die, it's just on to something else, and you're every bit as conscious and aware of self as you ever were.
		We'll probe that.
		Maybe Paul has that answer or thinks he has that answer in a moment.
		Actually, I guess I do want to dwell on this, Paul.
		In other words, are you suggesting that at the moment of death, it's not even like a little blink or anything.
		Our individual consciousness, our individual sense and realization of self continues in a way we simply don't understand yet.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if we don't understand it.
		I don't know if our ancestors didn't understand it.
		I think that it probably is a blink.
		I don't know.
		I haven't been there lately.
		But let me give you an example from a case art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All this is part of nature.
		What do things in nature do?
		They take the path of least resistance.
		I think that we make our own bed, so to speak, in the multiverse.
		I think that we pass from where we are to where we already are in the nearest parallel universe, and that's the path of least resistance.
		There was a beautiful, beautiful case in 1991, and the people called me not because they were concerned about what was happening, but because they thought I should see it.
		They read something I'd written, and it involved a little boy named Peter.
		And Peter, whose face I can still see, was a little boy of five who was dying of leukemia.
		And as you know from perhaps your own experience, children who are terminally ill cease almost immediately to be the little ego machines that we're used to, and they become very other-centered somehow.
		This child was a brilliant example of that.
		And they called me because he'd begun to have long conversations with his grandfather, who had died some 10 years before this.
		And I went over there, and there was immediately just a cloud of love coming from this child.
		We would take long walks, and he would hold my hand all while we were doing this.
		And he would describe his conversations with his grandfather.
		And his grandfather would tell him things like, there is a tree that he climbed, because he was younger now than he was when he was here, I guess.
		And he was, you know, nobody's dead.
		He would climb this tree, and he loved to see the view from the top of the tree.
		And it was the very tree that Peter would take me to, and he would climb it, and I would do the same.
		We would sit in this tree.
		He would tell me things like, there's nothing to be afraid of, ever, if you have love.
		I mean, things the child would just usually not sort of know about or anything.
		He would tell things about his mother, happy stories, Peter would call them, when she was a little girl, things Peter would have no way of knowing at all.
		And they would just love one another.
		And Peter eventually passed in the bosom of his family a few months later.
		And I asked him before that, I said, Peter, are you, in so many words, I asked, are you afraid of dying?
		And he said to me, my body is not me.
		You know, talk about out of the mouths of the world.
		And when he passed, he immediately became a tremendously powerful guardian for his family.
		This child was advanced spiritually.
		He's what people might call an old soul.
		And what is an old soul?
		In my opinion, it's someone who is already in touch with where they already are in many, many different worlds and lives.
		And they are wise because of this.
		I think they become giants when they pass.
		One thing that's always annoyed me, going to the other side of the coin, is you've got a lot of mediums, so we'll say, you know, sort of this sappy kind of approach that, well, everybody kind of goes to the light and you have all this stuff when everyone is welcomed by their ancestors and all this sort of thing.
		I said, well, you know, what about people who are predators, who are so self-centered that they just harm others almost by their very existence?
unidentified		Yes.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		You know, they molest children.
		They abuse their families.
		I mean, these people are not going any light as far as I can see.
		I think there are universes of endless aloneness.
		You know, what are these acts that they do, this preying upon other people?
		They're acts of ultimate selfishness.
		You cut yourself off from what I call the unity that is manifested by the multiverse.
		And I think you end up in universes of endless aloneness.
		You know, the old term, be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
		Well, they do, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is not a lot of Catholic in what I'm hearing at the moment.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that's a long time ago.
		I think that they have lightened up a little bit somewhat.
		And I will get thousands of emails as I did last when I was.
		You know, you're not, you know, you're against the church's teachings.
		Well, people are always blaming me for not espousing their beliefs.
		And I think when you look at the Bible or the Quran or whatever, and if you really, we're getting into translations and all these things, you're going to find things that are not there in the English versions.
		They just aren't.
		And I'm not saying that this is the teaching of any of these documents, but I think you've all told, all put together, this is essentially the message that's behind all these things, all these documents that we have today, whether it be the Bible or the sacred scriptures of any religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always had some difficulty, Paul, with the concept of no matter how big or bad the sin, you know, asking for forgiveness gets you where you want to go, no matter how bad you've been.
		It's a very difficult concept.
		Doesn't make sense.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is a piper to pay, I think.
		As I say, you make your own bed.
		On the other hand, there was a controversy in the early church, and this still kind of goes on quietly in some areas, that the whole notion of hell, which is, believe it or not, is not present in the Bible in the current fire and brimstone sense that it's understood since the 15th century or in the official church teaching, that God would allow that to occur to everybody.
		In the early church, there was a real feeling that God would, because of his own infinite love, would save everyone in the end.
		And whether that's ultimately just, I don't know.
		But I've always had problems with the idea of being in a heaven and being able to be completely fulfilled in the presence of God when people you love or knew are burning in hell.
		It's not a Christian concept.
		It honestly is not.
		It's a Manichean concept, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with the television show Medium?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must be.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It's one of my wife's favorite shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And one of my.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		She doesn't come with me on cases, but she watches Medium.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently it's based on A Real Woman in Phoenix.
		Talk to me about Mediums a little bit.
		Hasn't your wife made you watch it?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yes, actually she has.
		Good.
		People ask me about it, so I say, well, I should watch it.
		Essentially, I've made fun of mediums for the past umpteen years.
		However, in a sort of Only Nixon could go to China sort of thing, I teamed up with one last year to make a few tours, and that's Sherry Devereaux from Phoenix, who is the well-known psychic EMT, who is also an author of a very interesting book on this sort of thing, and has now teamed up with Sheriff Joy Rapio down there in Maricopa County, Arizona, as a cold case psychic.
		So she had a sort of approach that was far more down-to-earth than I usually see with mediums, and you do occasionally run into people like that.
		That being said, I have always been concerned with either psychics or mediums because they seem to be rather egotistical sometimes.
		Gee, all these cosmic forces are speaking through me.
		Wow.
		And ego clouds the judgment.
		And especially if you're trying to advise people, I just get really concerned about that.
		Maybe it's my journalism background, which came after the seminary, but I'm very skeptical with this.
		On the other hand, I do it myself.
		Maybe it's because I've hung around with this stuff so often.
		I've picked up a few tips.
		But I'm able to seem to have this thing where I can tell people who their guardians are or where they are or how many they've got and then give them advice, not from the quote-unquote dead, but things they need to be doing in their lives and people they need to be talking to.
		And people have come back and said it really helped them.
		So I don't know.
		Whenever that is, I guess I suppose I shouldn't be criticizing because I guess I'm doing it myself.
		But again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, without putting you on the spot, Paul, without putting you on the spot, this lady that you became close to, what was your impression?
		Was she sensitive way beyond others?
		Was she the real McCoy?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Sherry?
		Well, yeah, I believe she's the real McCoy.
		We're not extremely close.
		I mean, we kind of work together in this.
		put on some joint programs in different parts of the country.
		But it's...
		I think it's...
		She doesn't necessarily agree with all my...
		And she doesn't agree entirely, but she does kind of, so we have enough sparks to make it interesting.
		But she is sincere enough and down-to-earth enough that I take her seriously.
		These gifts are real.
		We are tying into where we are, this is how I believe it works, in these multiverses, in these various universes, where these people are, and we make connections with them, maybe with their loved ones.
		And I think it's perfectly natural and perfectly real, and nothing spooky about it.
		But I think that there are enough dangers out there that I'm skeptical about some psychics because I think what they're tying into is parasites rather than actual people.
		And I think one of the problems is that they're too egotistical and clouds of judgment, and they can't tell what they're dealing with.
		And they don't even believe in parasites.
		Everything's just ducky out there, and everything's happy and kind of sappy and this.
		That to me is dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've always had a problem with that myself, especially the sappy part Of it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it just doesn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you do believe that there are people with specific gifts for this?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure.
		Maybe you play the piano better than I do.
		If it were not a human trait, I mean, we would never have known, our ancestors would never have known that the mastodon was about to charge from somewhere behind them, and our race never would have survived.
		You understand what I'm saying?
		The feeling of being watched, the feeling that something's not right about this situation or about this person.
		It's something we all have, and it's psychic.
		Whatever word you want to call it, instinct.
		It's something we all have, and we kind of have to have.
		And you were talking about instinct before.
		I think we have to pay attention to it or we're in trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And some people are very, very good at it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Some people play the piano better than I might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that science is beginning, even though it may not recognize it and certainly wouldn't say it, but is science beginning to kind of close in on proving the paranormal?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, excuse me, proving is a loaded word, really.
		You know, for the true believer, no proof is required.
		For the unbeliever, no proof is enough, right?
		That's human nature.
unidentified		We're attempting to...
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		They essentially believe in a 19th century or 18th century scientific materialistic approach to the world in which everything is matter and based on the interaction with other matter.
		That's the scientific method.
		I think the scientific method is completely inadequate to a multi-dimensional world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but in the world of quantum science, we're beginning to move into an area that is going to start to explain some of this.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I sure hope so.
		It already has.
		But with mainstream science, you know, even Einstein had a problem with quantum mechanics.
		He didn't disbelieve it, but he couldn't deal with it.
		He said, it's too crazy.
		It's like I use the analogy of a basketball.
		You know, the scientific method is a straight ruler, but the world is a basketball, or the multiverse is a basketball.
		cannot measure a basketball with a straight ruler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He didn't like it, but he acknowledged it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Oh, yeah, no, he didn't disbelieve it.
		He just didn't like it.
		You know, he refused to believe that God played dice with the universe, which is what happens in some versions of quantum mechanics.
		But again, if you can't measure the basketball with a straight ruler, you just declare the basketball doesn't exist and you have no problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, science does a lot of that.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		And science also is dependent on bucks today.
		One example I use frequently is the Project Stargate, which I'm sure you're familiar with.
		The attempts to respond to a similar Soviet program, attempts to pin down and use elements of paranormal warfare.
		Crazy stuff.
		But they did it, and I believe they're relatively successful at it, and they poured a lot of money into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I believe more than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think they're still doing it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I believe they still are, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've interviewed just about every remote viewer that's out there, very close, anyway, the big ones, the ones that were in the program, and they all say several identical things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one, it works.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ask every one of them.
		Oh, yes, it works.
		And they also all say, but the government shut it down because of embarrassment, because of whatever reason.
		They shut it down.
		Now, that doesn't track.
		If it works, particularly post-9-11, if it works, then we're still using it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I wish there's something I could tell you, but I can't tell you.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Something I happen to know about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Well, just whisper it in my ear here.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe if we meet sometime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can read between those lines.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		When there's money to be made, science is right there to make the money.
		So they'll believe in it when there's money to be made.
		I don't mean to denigrate science and scientists.
		There are plenty of outstanding thinkers and seekers out there among scientists.
		But again, if you want your funding, you have to toe the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, that's absolutely right, Paul.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there's a lot of theoretical physicists who are walking right down the quantum road that's going to explain so much of what you're talking about with the multiverse theory.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		They sure are.
		One of them is David Deutsch at Oxford, who's building quantum computers.
		Oxford University physicist, a tremendous guy.
		And he believes that we can reach into these other universes and use them to improve our own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Entirely possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we get a working quantum computer, it may answer questions that we don't even ask.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't pretend to know how it works, but that's what he's doing.
		But again, yeah, it's...
		And I say, you know, everything has an explanation, but do we have the guts to accept the explanations?
		Because that's where the real wonder lies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does all of this square?
		All you've learned, and now obviously all you believe, Paul, how does this square with the traditional religious background?
		Any problems?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
		Again, when you look at what's behind our religious beliefs, I think you can square this with no trouble at all.
		I think that as with anything in belief, in the history of human belief, we take the symbols and make them the reality.
		And that's how we understand it.
		Heaven and hell, for example.
		For example, hell in the Bible, for example, is generally a translation of, when it's even, there are some English versions where hell is not used, the word of the Hebrew word sheol or gehenna, which essentially means places of waiting.
		And strangely enough, that's more like the old doctrine of purgatory than it is about the modern doctrine of fire and brimstone hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought hell was more of a permanent sentence.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, that's not what it says in the Bible.
		I mean, Gehenna and Sheol are places of waiting.
		The ancient Hebrews did not believe in a hell as a place of eternal punishment.
		And I think that, again, I personally cannot respect anyone who does believe in that because, first of all, how kind of merciful God is that?
		And secondly, how can you ever be happy in heaven when people are frying in hell?
		That just doesn't make sense to me.
		It just insults what's good in the human heart, in my opinion.
		And it's a distortion of what was actually believed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, circling back, I refuse to believe that somebody who has hurt a child, molested a child, or done something awful to a child, can somehow confess, ask for forgiveness, and all is well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just, my mind can't grasp that.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't seem just.
		Now, when you look at some of the teachings of the early church, hell was defined as separation from God.
		Because we're precisely made, theologically speaking, precisely made to be united with God, to be united with God, and that is heaven, because that's a total fulfillment.
		Excuse me.
		On the other hand, hell is self-imposed separation from God, according to the ancient doctrines of the church, at least the fathers who were accepted as quote-unquote orthodox.
		And so the whole notion of eternal fire and punishment is one of self-imposed punishment.
		God is a consuming fire.
		It's one of the analogies used in the Old Testament, certainly, for God.
		And so these are things that you have to look at and separate them from the mythology, in my opinion.
		The fact is that the ancient Jews and the early Christians did not believe in hell as a place of eternal torment in the sense that it is thought of today.
		But that does not mean there is no justice.
		I have problems with, as you do, people who are complete predators and completely selfish so much so that it destroys others, simply walking into some kind of heaven.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I just can't buy it.
		I just can't buy it.
		Paul, hold tight, top of another hour, incredible stuff with Paul Eno from the High Desert.
		I'm Art Bell.
		We are going to open the lines for Paul Eno.
		So if you have a question, by all means, grab a phone, come through a portal, and join us.
		We're talking about the paranormal, sort of generally about the paranormal, but this man does have a deeper understanding than most people I've talked to of it.
		There's simply no question about it.
		So the first question that we had on our little sheet was dead on the money.
		A very deep understanding of what this is all about, in my opinion.
		It coincides very much with what I believe.
		And so maybe that's why I think that, but it certainly is true.
		All these years of looking into it, and this sounds just about right.
		Paul Eno, back in a moment.
		Once again, Paul Eno.
		Paul, welcome back.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I do want to ask this.
		Have you ever run into an entity or parasite, if you will, or whatever you want to call them, that was without question pure evil?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		That's a difficult question because it's very subjective.
		And of course, there really isn't any such thing as objectivity.
		I would have to say probably yes.
		When you say pure evil, I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I interpret that as hostility, desire to harm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I have never seen a desire to kill because we're their food source.
		But the nastiest of the nastiest, yes, I believe I have seen what can really undeniably be called evil in our sense of the word.
		I think that there was one in particular, what I call this ghost in the checkered shirt from Montreal.
		This one was a case where this entity was pretending to be the deceased father of this family.
		And there were four children and a poor woman who was trying to handle these things and didn't have enough money.
		And everything went wrong for these people.
		And this seemed to be the father.
		And what really made me suspicious was that he would demand certain things in a way.
		In other words, they attempted to move the father's chair out of the living room.
		The thing would literally pick the chair up, transport it down the hallway in front of everybody, and put it right back where it was.
		And I would see this man in a checkered shirt running behind the garage, say, when I was outside, or just ducking around a corner.
		And I would never see his face, but I would always see this checkered shirt.
		And I would get this incredible feeling of just unbelievable hostility, certainly toward me.
		And it's funny, just as an aside, there are certain, I don't know if I can call them archetypes, but there are certain patterns of figures who are seen in parasite cases very often.
		There's the little girl with flowers in her hair.
		And when I say archetype, I mean universal appearances in all cultures.
		Little girl with flowers in her hair.
		And a man, in our culture anyway, a man in a checkered shirt.
		Really strange, but that's how a lot of these things seem to appear.
		So what we did here was what I began to learn was really the only way was to bring in positive energy, the family pull together, try and connect with the real father.
		And interestingly, when I made it known, I literally spoke this in the living room of the house, I did not believe that this was the father of this family.
		Everything changed.
		It got very hostile, but it didn't pretend to be the father anymore.
		The family didn't believe it either.
		So again, things are never what they appear to be.
		And when you have this negativity from what's supposed to be a loved one, that's a dead giveaway to me that's a parasite.
		But that was a real, real nasty one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've said things are just not what they seem.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		They're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		There are people who I, when I was younger, and perhaps not so wise, Paul, I played with a Ouija board.
		I had an experience that I still will not talk about.
		It was not good.
		And I wonder if you have any advice for people who toy with these things as a child would play with a game, opening doors that they're...
		And is it very much different?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Not at all.
		It's very well put.
		My advice for people with that is one word: don't.
		I myself had an experience, as maybe similar to yours, when I was younger and foolish.
		A friend of mine back in Connecticut and I were grade school, and he got one as a president.
		I've been after Milton Bradley for years to take the bloody things off the market, and they just don't take me seriously.
		And we began to play with this thing, and finally we asked when we would die.
		And it said that he would die in 1983.
		And he did.
		He died in a diving accident.
		Now, how can this thing predict this stuff?
		Well, first of all, these are entities who are very aware of all the different possibilities, probabilities in the multiverse, all the different bubbles as we've been talking about.
		And I think that when they're accurate, they pick the right bubble.
		And this guy, as I say, he died in a diving accident.
		Now, it's said that I have a considerable number of years to go, I guess.
		And people believe in these things.
		And I have an elderly cousin in Florida who just, she's in her 90s, and she just talks to all her friends on these Ouija boards.
		And I tell you, you're not talking to your friends.
		You're punching holes in space-time, and who knows what's going to come through and grab it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not the Ouija board per se anyway, Paul.
		It's the intent of the person or persons using it.
		In other words, you're actually asking to open a door.
		You're asking to speak to the dead or the parasites or whatever they are.
		They're all words.
		You want to speak to them.
		You want to open the door.
		And, you know, so you could do it with anything.
		You could take this tape case in front of me and imagine that it will open doors and start playing with it and probably achieve the same thing.
		So I don't think it's Milton Bradley's board.
		I think it's the intent of those using it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I think it's the board.
		Again, I can't put my finger on why, but there's something about Ouija boards and seances that just light the fuse.
		Again, I think if these things try to reach out to you, they're doing it.
		You remember the old thing from the Dracula story, ended of your own free will.
		You have to go into the Dracula's castle of your own free will.
		He can't grab you and pull you in there.
		It just strikes me as almost the same thing.
		You're asking for it.
		You're asking for trouble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And people ask me about possession very often.
		The most extreme parasite sort of phenomenon the UQ can get, even beyond poltergeist.
		And I've dealt with possession cases before, not for a long time, fortunately, but I have.
		I have been convinced that when that occurs, it has to be voluntary.
		You have to let this thing gain a certain amount of control over you, even over your personality, but it's got to be voluntary.
		And why would anybody do that?
		Because for one thing, as this little girl in this Bridgeport house did in 74, she loved the attention she was getting.
		And the very idea that cosmic forces could work through me and I'm getting this attention and otherwise I'd be a nobody, that's a dangerous feeling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, though, I don't think it's a board.
		I think that if I could make you believe, let's say I had a black box.
		Black is good.
		A black box.
		And I could convince you that if you place your hand on this black box and you called for a spirit, that it would work.
		If I could convince you of that, Paul, the black box would work every bit as well as the Ouija board.
unidentified		The Ouija board works because people believe it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe it's because it's 4 o'clock in the morning here.
		I didn't quite get what you meant.
		No, I agree with that 100%.
		It is the people.
		Just on the opposite end of the coin there, too, I often will approach people.
		And today, especially with the multitude of religious beliefs, you have to take people where they are in a case.
		They're having problems.
		If they're Buddhists, so you can't really go running in with holy water and crosses and Bibles, right?
		Because the weapons they use have to connect with them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have to believe it.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		You have to believe it.
		Belief and love are the most powerful forces there are.
		I've seen teddy bears work for children.
		Literally, you know, keep the parasites away because they connect with these things and they believe it and it gives them comfort.
		And what are they doing?
		The teddy bear has no power.
		They are evoking their own power to control their own lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think love is the biggest and most powerful force.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good thing for us.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		It's very true.
		And that's, as I say, we used to go charging in with clergy and holy water and all this stuff, and it wouldn't always work.
		I said, well, how come it doesn't work?
		My belief system says it should work.
		But what always works is people coming together.
		If a family, but it's all about family, you know, and this is what we've got to get away from, is the idea that we can do it ourselves.
		We need each other.
		And when families come together, and whether it be maybe just your friends, even if you have nobody, you've always got somebody, whether it be your ancestors who love you or whatever, you come together with them, you hold hands, you stand in solidarity, nothing can touch you.
		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Parasites.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Not anything bad.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And that is the ultimate message that I always like to leave people with, that you are never alone and you are always loved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's go to the phones, I promise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Karen in Sacramento, you're on with Paul Eno.
unidentified		Oh, thank you for taking my call.
unidentified		My name is Karen from Sacramento.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Karen.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I called to tell Mr. Enos that his name is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Eno.
		It's just E-N-O, hon. Beg pardon?
		It's Eno, E-N-O.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		One spelled backwards.
unidentified		Okay.
		His statement about hell being a neutral place is not correct because in the Bible, Jesus says that hell or Gehenna was a place where the fire was never quenched and the worm never died, and that there would be a wailing and gnashing of teeth.
		It doesn't sound like a very neutral place, though he himself said that.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I actually didn't say it was neutral.
		I don't know if I want us to get into a theological discussion here, but you have to be aware that that particular passage is mistranslated.
		Unfortunately, I was not prepared to talk about that right now, but I can at some future date if anybody wants to hear it.
		But the problem with the English translations is that they are really, really lousy.
		The problem with various scriptures is that they were handed down hand copy after hand copy after hand copy.
		We have Bible documents where the scribe who was writing it down by hand was criticizing the scribe before him for changing the text, and we don't know what the text was.
		So you have to rely, as much as this is a dirty word to American evangelicals, you have to rely on holy tradition.
		You just have to, or else chaos will result.
		And the chaos comes, an example, there are 30,000 Christian sects, all of which say they believe in the Bible, and there are 30,000.
		So if you're going to tell me that people interpret the Bible in the proper way and they still have 30,000 sects, I'm just not going to believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paul, do you believe that reincarnation was at one point in the Bible?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't really in the Bible.
		There were many, many, after Jesus walked the earth, there were many, many Christian sects, many, many belief systems.
		And Paul pretty much conquered all the others, and his version of it kind of came to the fore.
		Now, before that, this is nothing, the earliest Gospels and the Gospel of Mark being the oldest, but the epistles of Paul were written before the Gospels were.
		So it's pretty much for sure.
		And the problem was that Paul had already influenced all the beliefs of the church before this occurred.
		Then there were a number of Christian sects that believed in reincarnation.
		Judaism, in part of its history and in part of its, one or more of its approaches to its own faith, believes in reincarnation to this day, really.
		Origen, the father of the church who was later considered a heretic, believes in reincarnation.
		So, yeah, it's part of the tradition.
		I don't personally believe in it because when you don't have a past and a future in an objective sense, you can't have past lives.
		What you have, of course, is we've discussed are parallel lives, which I suppose is six and one, half a dozen or the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Paul, what is it you think that so many I've interviewed over the years so many people who have hypnotized others and have taken them back to birth and then into prior lives?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what are these people running into?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Funny you should bring that up because I love to talk to regression therapists.
		Okay.
		And I always ask them, do you ever encounter people who will describe worlds that you don't recognize?
		And I'll say, funny, you should ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		One in Vermont said, well, gee, I had somebody last week who told me it was the year 2148.
		And so if hypnotism is legitimate, there is a certain question about that.
		And if it does what we think it does, then people describing future lives as well as past lives give credence to the idea of the multiverse because the future is there just like the past is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's funny you should say that because a couple of these gentlemen that I've interviewed have exactly said that, that they've run into so many people with not just past, but future lives as well.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I think it puts arrows in our quantum quiver, so to speak.
		And I asked these people, and then so you've got lives that are being lived simultaneously, and a lot of aggression therapists are accepting that concept.
		They may not understand it, but they're accepting it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jason in South Carolina, you're on with Paulino.
unidentified		Yes, it is a great pleasure to finally get to speak to you, Art Bell, and Mr. Eno.
		Thank you.
		I was going to ask more in reference to what you were discussing earlier with Hill.
		The last caller basically took that part of my question away.
		One thing that I kind of wanted to touch base on and maybe clarify, particularly for you, Art Bell, you spoke about how you have a hard time believing that if someone does something terribly bad, like child molestation or murder or something like that, that they can just simply say, please forgive me, and then they're forgiven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		Even, even if it's genuine, in other words, even if they feel genuine regret for what they did.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, somehow the universe, it seems to me, equals things out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And something as horrible as child molestation is not just taken away by saying, gee, I'm sorry, I did it.
unidentified		And you're exactly right.
		You're exactly right.
		And from listening to you speak, Mr. Eno, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll post this more as a question.
		But it sounds like you don't put much faith in the English translation of the Bible.
		So I won't use this as a Bible reference, but as my own personal experience, and it's something that I know to be a fact because I used to not have any faith at all.
		I hadn't felt anything, didn't say anything.
		I spoken words before, but still didn't feel anything.
		And you're exactly right when you say you don't believe that you can merely ask for forgiveness and all is well.
		What makes it all well, you're basically your ticket into heaven is not only ask for forgiveness, but you put your full faith in Jesus Christ and then repent.
		A lot of people, even Christians, miss this when I say the word repent, that means to physically and spiritually repent of your sin.
		Turn away.
		Turn to Christ.
		Put your full faith and trust and heart into him.
		And he will make you a new person as he did me.
		I mean, I'm telling you, and it was almost overnight.
		I became a totally different person.
		I didn't have the same interest.
		I no longer wanted to do things that hurt my family, that hurt me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, I mean, it's just a miraculous thing that, you know, I think you kind of have to judge yourself.
		These are my own personal beliefs, I guess.
		But I think in the end, you judge yourself.
		And so I'm not saying it can't be mitigated by what you do later in your life.
		I'm just saying that somewhere the universe is going to dish out justice for a severe wrong.
		Now, Paul?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		well, I think that discovering the H-word humility in the face of your beliefs, in the face of Jesus or the Bible or whatever your belief system is, is the key.
		Because I think the measure of intelligence is knowing how much you don't know.
		And all the theology I studied over the years, all theology ends in silence.
		And you stand before God naked.
		And I think it's simply realizing that in humility that your answer begins.
		And here we are in silence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and here we are in silence.
		Well, it provokes a lot of thought, Paul.
		It really does.
		And I can't remember the name of the movie.
		I really can't.
		But there was a movie I once saw in which, at the very end, a woman was required to judge herself.
		And she did.
		And she ended up not in hell, but in a kind of a purgatory.
		She didn't go to heaven.
		And I don't know why that had so much impact on me, but it did.
		At any rate, Paul, hold on.
		We've got a board full of people who would like to talk to you.
		Paul Eno is my guest.
		This has been packed full of really good stuff tonight.
		I'm Marv Bell.
		Paul Eno has, in my opinion, a better grasp of all of this paranormal activity and the possible reason for it, and certainly his encounters with it than many, many people I've talked to.
		Fascinating guy.
		So if you have a question for Paul, we're going to lean heavily on the phones this coming half hour.
		Be right back.
		Well, all right.
		Once again, Paulino, Paul, if you're ready, a lot of people would like to speak to you.
unidentified		Let's go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's do it.
		Let's begin with Susanna in California.
		You're on with Paul.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Susanna in Grass Valley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Hi, Susanna.
		I really love the show.
		All right, this is a blessing.
		This is the first time I've talked with you.
		I started listening to you about 10 years ago.
		A truck driver friend turned me on to you.
		And I've been on with George twice now since April.
		Okay.
		I really applaud you, Paul, for being a minister who didn't settle for being a sheeple, so to speak.
		You kept opening yourself up and using the gifts God has given you, and that's just awesome.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		Actually, I was never ordained.
		Maybe the church and I both had a lucky escape.
		I don't know.
		But I do honor my education and certainly honor God.
unidentified		Thank you for the clarification.
		I am a minister and a medium, and you've just been sort of hopping from one subject to another that's been a part of my life for years.
		And from time travel to depossessions and parasites to Ouija board use to the afterlife.
		And I was trying to pose a question.
		And recently, actually two days after my first chat with George on the coast to coast about an alien abduction situation I had, my mom died.
		And following her passage and not really believing any of my psychic friends who kept telling me, oh, she's in a better place, I decided to see for myself, being a clairvoyant, and was able to follow her.
		And what I wanted to ask is, have you ever followed a loved one to see where they ended up?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I say, they kind of follow me.
		I mentioned the unborn son who has come as a guardian.
		I do find very often that there is a misconception sometimes among people who believe that once you have passed from this body into whatever we were describing, that you know everything.
		I don't think that's true.
		I've met many people who have passed here but are alive in many other worlds.
		And the ones in which I have seen them, they are very confused or terrified.
		Sometimes it's the opposite.
		Sometimes they are in worlds where they are very much enlightened and can help others and help their families.
		So I think that I have not followed my own loved ones, but they are there.
		And I think all of us, frankly, don't necessarily need mediums.
		And I think the best mediums will tell people they are their own best mediums.
		And it's simply a matter of quieting the soul, quieting the heart, and just holding hands and being in touch, because this unity of the multiverse is its ultimate message.
		And I don't know if you get what I'm saying here, but I think it's a lot simpler than we often think it is.
		And we're already in touch.
		We already should be holding hands.
		And that love is the greatest bond in the universe.
		It really is.
		So, yeah, I don't really follow them.
		They kind of follow.
		We follow each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Paul, is it your view that when a person passes, for some period of time, they are closer to you than they are after a period of time passes?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've wondered that because very often people will say that they are in touch with their loved ones.
		Their loved ones are still there.
		They're helping them out.
		Others seem to completely disappear.
		I think that's because we each, as I say, make our own bed in the multiverse.
		We have to go on with our tasks, so to speak.
		I think that when you have someone like Mother Teresa or someone who is like little Peter's grandfather, where there's nothing but love, they will be there more readily, more frequently than some.
		And I think that when the person is not there, I think to try and reach them or to try and connect with anything but their presence in the multiverse and to expect to have chatty conversations and to have them helping you and doing this sort of thing.
		Well, you know, that might be a little bit of a reach.
		You have to understand, I think, that people move on, and we ourselves move on, and not everybody's in the same state that they are enlightened to the point where they can help their ancestors or whether they're descendants and this sort of thing.
		It's better being patient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		George in California, you're on with Paulino.
unidentified		Hi, Art and Paul.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		As you were talking about your experience with the Ouija board, I was sitting there listening, thinking that you're asking a question of someone or something and getting an answer.
		I went through remote viewing training with Ed Dames, and it's the same situation.
		You're asking a question of what he refers to as the collective unconscious, and you're getting an answer.
		What made me sit bolt upright was that the Ouija board predicted exactly the year, 1983, that your friend would die.
		Remote viewers have a huge difficulty with numbers, which disappoints me greatly that I'm a math teacher and the collective unconscious doesn't seem to be able to handle numbers.
		But anyway, do you have any idea what remote viewers access?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it, Paul, do you think that they are accessing?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that what they're accessing is other bubble universes, as we've described.
		I think that pretty much explains all psychic and mediumistic phenomena.
		I think the individual person and their individual gifts will determine precisely what they access.
		One thing that bothers me about Ouija boards and seances and things is that people always assume that what they're told is true.
		I don't believe half the people I meet on the street.
		And it's a matter of discernment and common sense.
		So I think what remote viewers are accessing is where they already are in a different place.
		What is deja vu?
		I think deja vu is this similar thing.
		You have the experience of having been there before, of having done this before, having spoken with this person before.
		You have that feeling because you have.
		Not only have you, but you are at that very instant in a subconscious life.
		Again, once you get your mind around this stuff, it really starts to ring true.
		But it's a matter of getting your mind around it first because this is not the world that we see with our five senses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's not easy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mike in Green Bay, Wisconsin, you're on with Paulino.
unidentified		Oh, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		How's it going?
		Longtime listener, first time caller.
		I was, I actually had a question for you, Paul.
		Sure.
		Oh, sorry, I think somebody's calling me on the other line.
		It's kind of become apparent to me.
		I a few areas, just kind of a few different houses.
		And the one thing that really kind of struck me was the places that really, you know, I felt really out of place and always had that eerie little essence to it kind of always seemed to be like the houses that kind of had a lot of clutter to them or a lot of stuff.
		I was wondering if you've ever noticed anything like in connection to these parasites that you described, have you ever noticed like a connection between the amount of stuff in the buildings and the parasites?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's an interesting question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, very cluttered houses, Paul.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, my wife might refer you to my office, this sort of thing.
		But it's interesting that you should say that because objects, physical objects, sometimes can affect paranormal phenomena.
		I had a major case only a few years ago where somebody moved a table out of their basement and all hell broke loose, so to speak.
		Actually, it was a parasite situation that just got worse and worse.
		And I was like, well, gee, what on earth is that?
		What causes that?
		So I think that when you have a lot of clutter, and I'm not saying that it's really true, but I think there may be something to it.
		When you have a lot of clutter or physical objects, what's happening?
		Every physical object, as any physicist will tell you, has a little gravitational field around it.
		These things can bend space and time in the sense that Einstein talked about it.
		When you have an object that someone has loved and been close to and cared for and taken care of and carried through their lives, it is part of their consciousness wave, I guess to use the quantum term.
		It is part of them.
		And when you have moved something or when you are in an area where there's a lot of clutter, I mean, it is possible that these waves will interact with yours in a negative way, in a sense that it's not quite in harmony.
		And you might possibly have bad feelings or feelings of not belonging because so many things there belong to one person and not to you.
		Again, it's something else you have to get your mind around.
		But I think that's a sensible escalation that I've seen when people have expressed the feelings you have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's one for you, Paul.
		Many ghost hauntings have been reported as, oh, I don't know, kind of like endless tape loops with the spirit or the entity or the ghost doing the same thing again and again and again, frequently in the same place, you know, like in a house or in the place where an untimely death occurred, that sort of thing.
		Just sort of an endless tape loop.
		Almost like it's not in contemporary time at all.
		It's just sort of an echo of what was.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		It's often thought that these things are recorded, as it were, on the environment and simply play over and over again.
		Well, I don't accept that.
		I think what's happening is that it's like throwing a rock into a pond, as we said before.
		See the ripples.
		They go out, they go all the way to the edge of the pond.
		Well, the pond is like the multiverse.
		When a terrible event, or even sometimes a happy event, takes place, these things send out energy through space-time, through the multiverse.
		You drop the rock in the pond, so to speak, when you die or kill somebody or have a wonderful experience or something really, really emotional happens.
		And those waves go out.
		And the waves are the same size.
		They keep happening, happening, happening for quite a period of time.
		And if you are attuned to it and you're in the right place at the right time, you keep seeing it.
		You keep hearing it.
		I had a case in New Hampshire, very interesting old house.
		And you would hear, at the same time every night, something drop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		And another sound after that.
		And it was the same sound again and again and again.
		I think it was just whatever happened there, whether someone keeled over or whatever in some distant part of space-time, the waves kept coming and coming and coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, that movie where the lady judged herself was Mimi Rogers in The Rapture.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		The Rapture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember that movie?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		But I'll have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you've got to pick it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Albert in Northern California, you're on with Paul Eno.
unidentified		Hi, thank you.
		Yeah, I have a kind of a question and comment for your guest.
		He said a little while ago that the early Christians did not believe in hell.
		And I want to know where he got that from because I have statements right here from Ignatius of Antioch, Clement, and Irenaeus.
		Ignatius and Clement were contemporaries with the apostles.
		And Irenaeus was one generation after the Apostle John, and they wrote epistles where they said that there's an everlasting hellfire.
		So I want to know where your guest got that idea that the early Christians did not believe in hell.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, the people you mentioned are old friends of mine.
		You have to understand that the term hell is not what it means today.
		God is a consuming fire.
		I mean, somehow people just don't take seriously how hellish it can be to be separated from God.
		God was described as a consuming fire.
		If you hate God, if you separate yourself from God, you are in hell.
		It's not a literal place.
		What I'm saying is they didn't believe in a literal place of fire and brimstone.
		They believed in hell, but as a place of separation from God, self-imposed separation from God.
		You can't read this stuff in English and think it's what it says in Greek.
		You just.
		Okay, well, I don't want to get into a theological discussion here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael and Tucson, you're on with Paul.
unidentified		All right.
		Hey, Art.
		Man, it's an incredible honor to be on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy to have you.
unidentified		This particular one is really fascinating to me.
unidentified		I mean, Mr. Reno, I've been trying to research things on my own similar to what you're getting into, especially along the lines of David Deutsch you mentioned.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		With his explanation of the multi-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.
		My main question is, like he was saying, it's mainly a quantum level effect of photons.
		And I was just wondering, you seem to be implying like emotion has an effect, like that you can contact some entity from a different universe through some sort of heightened sense of emotion.
		So my question is, do you have like a method?
		Like another guy was talking about remote viewing.
		Like would you say you have a way of potentially verifying other entities?
		And if so, what would you say, like, what would be the purpose of all this?
		Like, why would we even be subjected to this?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I think it's a very gut-leveled phenomenon here.
		I don't know if you're the parasites or what, but I don't deliberately try to contact these things, of course.
		I mean, there's enough of the influence going on around us all the time, I think, anyway.
		I think what's happening here is simply nature is taking its course.
		Every creature has to eat.
		And if these are, as I suspect, plasma-based life forms, something that even Carl Sagan, who was an astrobiologist, what used to be called exobiologists, speculated about, they have to eat.
		Everything has to eat.
		And I think that we are the hot, we can line up to be the hot lunch at times.
		And I would go so far as to say that we are, as a species, at times, farmed by these things in every sense of the word.
		And my concern is making people aware of it, hopefully I'm correct, and telling them what to do about it.
		But as far as actually deliberately contacting people from other, I don't think you have to do it.
		You're already there yourself.
		You're already in contact.
		Taken to its conclusion, you are already these people.
		You are already perhaps even your own guardian angel.
		This gets into a whole different area beyond what we've been talking about.
		But yeah, I think it's an open system.
		The multiverse is an open system.
		The worlds are not closed to one another.
		Energy is exchanged.
		Awareness is present.
		And it's a matter of just being aware of you're in the woods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by the way, your book, Turning Home, God, Ghosts, and Human Destiny, how long has that been out?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Since last fall, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since last fall?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		How's it doing?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it was on the bestseller list in March on Amazon, and it's getting there, getting there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		I'm getting reactions to it that are very, very strange.
		Some people don't understand a word of it.
		Other people say they have mystical experiences while reading it.
		I didn't mean it to go as far as that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, it's a matter of doors that you open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps there are things in your book that open doors for people.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, perhaps.
		I don't know.
		I cover a lot of this stuff, and I get into a lot of different things that kind of, I hope, you know, draw the connect the dots.
		And I just hope that people are helped by it somehow.
		And there are some cases in there.
		If people don't like the science, they can read the cases and maybe be entertained by them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go, folks.
		And also, we've got links up to the website.
		Take a look.
		Fernando in Little Elm, Texas, wherever that is, you're on with Paul.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Berlin.
		Good morning, Mr. Eno.
		Good morning.
		Thank you.
		We are north of Dallas, about 70 miles.
		Okay.
		Mr. Barrel, I have listened to you for a very long time.
		Not since your interview with Father Malachi Martin have I learned so much.
		You have been an instrument in learning and insight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I hope so.
unidentified		I appreciate everything you have done for me in that I have learned a lot from your interviews and from you as well.
unidentified		I want to ask Mr. Eno, am I pronouncing his name correctly?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you are.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		What does he think is the, what is sin?
unidentified		I'm curious on his thoughts on what is sin?
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		Well, theologically, sin is missing the mark.
		In the Greek, missing the mark.
		It is not being everything you can be.
		It is, people, generally it's interpreted as offending God.
		Well, I think God is offended when we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing, when we're not being all we can be, not to sound like an Army commercial.
		But it literally means missing the mark.
		That's what it means.
		I don't know what else I can say.
		I think one of my problems with Christian theology is that I think we create sin in a way by setting up an atmosphere of almost making it attractive.
		I don't know if I'm expressing that properly, but I think that the whole guilt thing is not the way to prevent sin.
		I think the way to prevent sin is simply...
		Yeah, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, we're at the end of it.
		Paul, I can't control...
		I'm sorry, we're out of time, but it has been such a pleasure.
		I promise we will do it again.
paul f eno ▲ ● ▼		That's always a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
		It's been a good one.
		That's Paul.
		Eno, folks.
		I'm sorry.
		We really are out of time so quickly.

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