Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - God & Light - T. Lee Baumann
|
Time
Text
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world, all time zones covered by this rockin' program, Coast to Coast AM.
It's not like any other program you've ever heard anywhere, and it's intended that way.
Good morning, I'm Art Bell.
It's my honor and privilege to be escorting you through the weekend.
And what an interesting weekend it should be.
Tonight we have another physician, a doctor, Lee Bauman, in the next hour.
And he is definitely a believer in things spiritual.
Now, I have a feeling that he probably is going, Not necessarily.
He talks here about the evidence for heaven.
In a TV documentary, you can't have heaven without sort of a traditional God, right?
So spiritual slash God and a doctor, all of that normally does not mix.
We'll see what his story is next hour.
In the meantime, let's look briefly at the news.
Oh, by the way, the webcam photo is the same one.
It is of Aaron.
By the way, I would like to note yesterday was the anniversary of the passing of one of the most wonderful, alive women that the world has ever known.
Ramona Bell.
It was a rough day.
Anyway, let's look at the world news.
That's always rough too.
A huge avalanche.
A lot of this is weather.
I'm telling you folks, the weather is changing.
A huge avalanche knocked two cars straight off a mountain pass Saturday on the main highway to one of the state's largest ski areas shortly after crowds headed through on the way to the lifts.
According to authorities, eight people were rescued from the buried vehicles.
All were taken to area hospitals.
All this in Colorado.
Elsewhere, for example, in New Jersey, I'm getting a ton of email.
The daytime temperatures are in the 70s.
In the 70s in New Jersey!
How strange is that?
In fact, here, let me read you a little bit.
Let's see.
Where have I got it?
Somebody sent me an email.
Yeah.
I'm sitting here.
I think it's January 6, 2007.
Have most of all my windows open.
It's three in the morning.
There's a warm breeze blowing through my living room window.
I walk out to the porch, place a bag of garbage in the can, and I smell summer.
What the... Well, you know.
I look at the thermometer.
It reads 61 degrees.
Now, that's at night!
At night in New Jersey!
Later tomorrow, weather guy says it's gonna be in the 70s.
All kinds of emails like that.
Unseasonable weather, they call it, jolts northeast.
As Marie Goff drove up the muddy access road to the top of the bobsled track at Mount Von Havenberg on Saturday, the thermometer on the dashboard caught a rise on top of a mountain unbelievable 51 degrees, said Goff.
A driver for the Olympic Regional Development Authority.
Thank goodness it stopped raining, and thank goodness the track is refrigerated.
The weather is nuts here.
It's, let me look, 29.8 degrees.
The winds yesterday were kicking up around 40 miles an hour.
50.
Again.
So, here in the desert, where normally during the day we should be in the 70s, New Jersey is.
I have no idea what's going on.
Well, I do, but how it manifests is going to be random and strange.
In the opening battle of a major drive to tame the violent capital of Iraq, the Iraqi army reported it killed 30 militants Saturday in a firefight in the Sunni insurgent stronghold just north of the heavily fortified Green Zone.
President Bush worked Saturday to finish his new war plan.
This new plan could send as many as 20,000 additional troops to Iraq.
So, I guess looking at the alternatives, the President decided it was better to send more than to take more out.
New Orleans has got a lot of trouble.
Death trouble.
At least eight slayings in the city in the first week of the New Year, and they're talking about a curfew.
A curfew on the Big Easy.
That's something, isn't it?
Toys R Us, Inc.
agreed on Saturday to award a Chinese-American infant a $25,000 prize in a New Year's baby contest after the company came under a bunch of fire for disqualifying the girl because her mother was not a legal U.S.
resident.
Chinese-born advocates say they were infuriated by the Toys R Us, which opened its first mainland China store less than a month ago, launched an email campaign, in fact, on the issue.
So in a moment, as Paul would say, we'll look at the rest of the news.
Alright, I watched this very carefully, you know, the whole Chicago UFO business and watched the CNN coverage and here's somebody named Greg who writes the following to me.
Hey Art, I was watching CNN news yesterday, heard the Chicago O'Hare report citing by United Airlines pilots and mechanics.
It was reported by Candy Crowley.
Who, in my opinion, is trying to copy somebody on 60 Minutes.
She made such a mockery of the story by mixing it in with loony tunes like animations, other stories, and with a disbelieving tone of voice as if it were an everyday prank-like story.
So, I guess the government has put a disinformation notice to the news media about this story that it happened in November 7th of 2006.
They're just trying now, getting around to reporting it.
And putting their spin on it, and I really... I really do have to agree, I'm afraid, that there is a little bit of that going on.
Maybe a lot of that going on.
A new report from the Union of Concerned Scientists shows how ExxonMobil has adopted the tobacco industry's disinformation tactics to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue.
According to the report, This all comes from Whitley Strieber's unknown country.
Between 1998 and 2005, ExxonMobil funneled nearly $16 million to a network of 43 advocacy organizations that try to confuse the public on global warming science.
ExxonMobil has manufactured uncertainty about the human causes of global warming, just as tobacco companies denied their product caused lung cancer.
That's according to Alden Meyer, the Union of Concerned Scientists Director of Strategy and Policy.
A modest but effective investment has allowed the giant oil companies to fuel doubt about global warming, to delay government action just as Big Backhoe did over, well, for the past 40 years.
Now this is an interesting story, and by the way, we're about to go to open line, so if you know the portal numbers, as I like to call them, and you have something to say in the first hour that would be of some interest to us all, feel free to join us now.
Illegal immigrants planning to cross the desert and enter the U.S.
on foot are to be given handheld satellite devices by the Mexican authorities to ensure they arrive safely.
It's not a joke!
It's in the Monterey Sunday Telegraph.
Those who get lost or perhaps fall sick during the dangerous four-day crossing will now be able to activate the device.
It'll alert Frontier Police on both sides of the border.
The Satellite Tracking Service would require would-be illegals to register their intentions before setting off.
A paradoxical move, obviously, given that secrecy is necessary for success.
But Mexican authorities are predicting that about, get this, 200,000 devices will be handed out when the project is launched formally in the coming year.
Our intention is to save lives.
said Jamie Orbegon, the co-coordinator for the State Commission for Migrants in Pueblo,
the Mexico state which is behind the project.
Why, there are lots of people looking to cross and we're working with U.S. authorities to
make sure they do not die on the way.
Between 20 and 30 migrants succumb to hellish temperatures, insect bites and what have you,
while attempting to cross into Arizona every year.
Heat exhaustion sometimes causes short-term memory loss with trekkers wandering aimlessly in the desert.
The route into Arizona, known as Suave Pass, is both the most common and the most dangerous way into the U.S., according to Mexican state migrant authorities.
Up to 75,000 attempt the crossing every month, of whom between 50,000 and 60,000 are caught regularly by U.S.
border patrols and sent back.
The chance of success depends greatly on the knowledge of the guide known as the Coyote, or Desert Fox, and they get between $2,000 and $10,000 per person.
Coyotes are without mercy.
If a member of their pack lags behind, if you can't keep up, we'll abandon you.
Alone, you have about 36 hours to live.
It is in this period the satellite device makes a difference.
So, we're going to give satellite tracking devices to people wanting to make the illegal trip into the U.S.
Now, this next story comes from the New York Daily News, and I would say that it's pushing the envelope a little bit.
President Bush Quietly has claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans mail without a judge's warrant.
Pushing the envelope.
Bush asserted the new authority on December 20th after signing legislation that overhauls some postal regulations.
He then issued a signing statement, that's in quotes, that declared his right to open mail under emergency conditions contrary to existing law and contradicting the bill he had just signed according to experts who reviewed it.
A White House spokeswoman disputed claims that the move gives Bush any new power at all, saying the Constitution allows such surges anyway.
Still the move, just one year after the New York Times' disclosure of a secret program that allowed warrantless monitoring of Americans' phone calls and email, seemed to catch Capitol Hill by surprise.
Despite the President's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government from snooping into people's mail without a warrant.
Experts say the new powers could be easily abused and used to vacuum up huge amounts of mail.
And that's a little unsettling.
I guess, uh...
I guess if they can listen to your phone calls, and they can read your email, then opening mail is not an additional big step, but it just keeps coming.
Anyway.
Anyway, let's go to the lines.
It's bound to be better news there.
First-time caller line, you're on the air.
Hello there, first-time caller line.
Hello, Art.
Yes, there you are!
Okay.
Hey, man, I can't believe I'm on the air with Art Bell.
Well, you are.
Hey, I just want to talk about the perception of time versus the reality and life and death.
Okay.
I find it very intriguing that Michio Kaku and Brian Greene both have pretty much laid it on line with you, as well as in the books I've read, that time is not as people think it is as, you know, like a river that flows by or You know, the moment that we live, and there's our past and our future, but they make it clear that all points in time simultaneously exist.
You know, the first photon of light and the last photon of light are all in existence as we speak.
With that in mind, I think at one point or another, people are going to have to address the point that you were talking about last week, and that's abortion.
When a person is conceived, their death occurs at the very same time, because all points in time simultaneously exist.
So to me, it's not a question of when does life begin.
The question is, when did it end?
Because if a person is conceived, and their lifespan is 100 years from that point, their life and their death have both simultaneously existed.
You know, all at the same time.
So, how can anybody say... You're almost confusing me.
Okay, well, do you remember the field of time?
Well, there are many, many views on that, and many still view it as kind of like a river.
Not one that cannot be breached forward or reverse, but nevertheless, like a river.
Basically, though, the precedence is that all points in time exist simultaneously.
In other words, my birthday, September 30th, 1968, the moment of my birth still exists as we speak.
If you die 100 years from your birth, that moment exists at the same time.
That your birth exists.
It's all within a field of time.
Alright, let's, I don't think I'm going to grasp it, but let's say, let's just, let's go with what you're saying.
How does that affect abortion?
Okay, well the point is, if a person's conception and their death simultaneously take place, because every point in time exists simultaneously, an abortion simply prevents that person From fulfilling an entire lifespan?
Yes.
Oh, I thought you would get this immediately.
No, come on.
Because if every point in time... No, stop.
Are you saying that this somehow means that abortion is okay, or... Well, no, because you are ending the lifespan of an individual.
The argument for abortion most of the time is that it's not really a life yet.
It's just a tissue.
It doesn't really live until, some say, the beginning of the second trimester is life.
Some say life doesn't begin until the person's actually born.
Yeah, but according to your theory, if I heard it even halfway correctly, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference whether it's life at the very beginning from the heart beating, and then an abortion takes place, and it doesn't live to be 100 years old.
It's still got its point in time, if I was listening to you.
Well, it still has its point in time, but the whole key is that individual still had the potential of the full lifespan.
But what happens is it eliminates the lifespan of the individual when they're aborted before they're born.
So it is still killing the person.
I'll go along with that.
You know, look, I guess I'll have to stop there because I'm not going to grasp everything you want to say.
But I've thought a lot about it.
And listen to me.
I just I don't For one second, understand how anybody can... Well, very early in Erin's pregnancy, I went to the doctor with her, and they did an ultrasound, and it was incredible.
Now, it was only at that point about eight or nine weeks, and there it was, a little heart beating.
Pretty fast.
More like that.
But a little human heart beating.
Now how in the world can that not be life?
How can that not be life?
That is life!
That's all there is to it.
That fetus is everything it's going to be, assuming it comes to term and lives.
It's everything it's going to be!
It's alive!
I just don't see any argument that gets you around that.
You can try all kinds of things, I suppose, but It's definitely a life.
First time caller line in Los Angeles.
Phil, you're on the air.
Hi, Phil Murphy.
I'm Art.
You're Phil.
Dittos, Art.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for keeping us second shifters awake on the way home here.
Sweetly.
I have been digging in the archives on the web here for Coast to Coast trying to find a show you did.
Oh gosh.
Probably a couple, three years ago.
Device, it's an active device.
It's not an EVP kind of thing, but it's an active device that somebody came up with and was actually communicating with a professor, I believe, from Orange Coast Community College.
Oh, yes.
And I can't... I'm going to think of the name here in a minute.
It was a really interesting experiment.
It's not coming to me right now.
It will come to me though.
Anyway, proceed.
You only want the name or do you want to talk about it a little bit?
I was wondering, you sort of threw it out there, seeing if anybody else, and there was a website that you directed people to.
That you were just throwing it out to see if anybody else could sort of improve upon the design of this thing.
Oh, that's right.
No, actually, the schematic diagrams and all of that stuff for it are up there.
I'll come up with a name for you here in a few moments.
Somebody hit me with it, if you would please.
On Fastblast, and I'll come up with a name, but they've got schematic diagrams.
The whole experiment they did was laid out, and they actually, in live time, talked to a professor who helped them, helped them get this, helped them develop the circuitry for better communication with the dead.
It was absolutely amazing.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
Yes, indeed.
Back in the kingdom of Nye.
And it's great to be back.
Back in the USA.
How you doing, everybody?
It's going to be a very good night.
We've got a doctor coming on.
And as I said at the beginning of the program, most of the physicians that I talk to, along with the scientists, are not believers in God.
Now, clearly this doctor is a believer in things spiritual.
Whether that actually means God or not, I don't know.
But he mentions heaven.
I think that's pretty well connected to the more traditional God that we know.
So, we'll find out at the top of the hour.
In the meantime, and in a moment, we will continue with Open Lines.
All right, for the last caller, thank you very much, of course, as always, everybody on Fast Blast.
For the last caller, no, it's not EVP.
Well, it is EVP, but it's a very live form of EVP.
And it was called SpiritCom.
That's S-P-I-R-I-C-O-M.
If you want to look it up on the web, it's really fascinating.
Or SpiritCom.
S-P-I-R-I-T-C-O-M-M.
Anyway, something like that.
And the man's name was George Meeks.
George Meeks.
And what they did was set up this elaborate electronic circuitry that allowed them to speak to this man.
Who had passed on and he was an electronics expert and he actually helped them work on the circuitry to improve the communications with the other side and there were hours of live recorded experimentation with talking to the other side.
I actually at one point played about 45 minutes of it on the air.
It would cause the hair on the back of your neck to stand straight up.
You can download that audio from the web.
So, I would suggest you look up George Meeks, or Spiricom, S-P-I-R-I-C-O-M, or try Spiricom.
Either way, it probably will come up.
It's well worth investigation, and if somebody into electronics out there wants to look into it and give it a shot, Boy, would I ever be interested in the results.
Let's go to Tim in North Carolina, my state of birth.
How are you doing, Tim?
I'm doing alright tonight.
Glad to have you back in the United States.
I just wanted to say that I'm a huge fan of the show, haven't had the honor to talk to you yet.
Thanks, thank you very much.
I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but they recently passed this law.
Unfortunately, I lost my identification and my social security card recently.
And, um, I went down to the Social Security office to try to get a new card, and they, uh, informed me that the information that I had been using up until now to get my Social Security card is no longer good, and that, uh, they only issue ten cards now, and they retro-date it back to your birth.
So, if your mother has gotten you a Social Security card, and you've lost it a couple of times, and you get up to ten, they will not give you another one.
And I was talking to the security guard about it and he says, well, they've already turned away about 30 people.
And, um, he says, I don't know what they expect them to do.
He says, you need to either go to a country, a different country or go live under a bridge.
Cause you won't go to a different country.
Yeah.
And he says he doesn't understand what people are going to do, but I think that it's just a ploy to get those people and say, well, we can't give you another social security card, but if you get this little chip in your hand, Well, they didn't offer you a chip, did they?
Not yet, but it's definitely in the works, I think.
Well, I don't know what to say to you.
I can tell you this.
My cats are about to be chipped.
My cats, as you know, are coming home.
Well, actually, Dolly is going to immigrate.
She's a Filipino cat.
So she'll be immigrating.
But my other two cats are coming home with Dolly.
And all three of them will travel via Amsterdam.
And anytime any pet gets to Europe, they have to be chipped.
So today it's our pets.
Tomorrow, perhaps all the rest of us.
Would you take a chip?
If it depended on, well, I don't know, things like eating and paying your rent, paying your bills, that sort of thing, would you accept a chip?
I would think awfully hard about it, but my little kiddies are going to come back chipped, which actually I think is a pretty good thing.
If they get lost, they can certainly be found that way.
Let's browse west of the Rockies.
Nick in Montana, your turn.
Hi Art.
Welcome back stateside.
Thank you.
Yeah, I wanted to mention the wind speed in Montana until 2002 was about 125 miles an hour for a record wind.
In 2002, it hit 144 miles an hour out near Choteau.
Oh, my God.
Less than two weeks ago, it hit 167, I believe.
Good Lord!
They had a weather station up at Glacier Park on a mountain up there.
And less than two weeks ago it hit 167 I believe.
Good Lord!
Up at, up, they had a weather station up at Glacier Park on a mountain up there.
It hit 167.
And it was 133 on the highway, Highway 2 going through there.
Let me tell you, that's approaching tornado speeds.
Yes, sir.
And also, just two or three days ago, it hit 120 miles an hour at this community called Hart Butte, Montana, on the Black River.
Oh, that's absolutely horrible.
I mean, those kinds of winds, 140, 60 miles an hour, that'll take literally anything but a concrete building right down to the ground.
Yeah, and I guess the, uh, well, you know, it went from 125 miles an hour, uh, in 2000, uh, to, uh, you know, 160.
It's gone up, what, 25, 30% the, uh, record wind speed in just a couple of years.
And these are, these are straight line winds, right?
Yeah, it was, I guess, part of the same system that, that caused that storm where those hikers were stranded on Mount Hood.
Yeah.
But as it, you know, dropped its moisture and headed out over east of the divide, The winds roar out here, as anybody out here knows.
Yeah, that's what they've been doing here, too.
I really don't know what to tell you except that it's awful and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
I really don't know what to do about all of this.
Actually, we can't do anything, can we?
The weather is the one thing that we truly cannot affect.
All right, east of the Rockies we go.
That would be Greg in Cincinnati.
Hi, Greg.
Hey Greg, or Art, it's great to hear you from the high desert again.
Thank you.
It's indeed a hallowed place.
Listen, I had some questions on some follow-up information on a couple of your regular guests.
The first one would be Alex Jones.
I've never had Alex Jones on as a guest.
Never?
Never.
Oh, come on.
Seriously?
I'm trying to be serious, yes.
I've never had them on.
George has had them on any number of times.
Maybe you still have information on this.
He said prior to 9-11 and 2000 that there were death camps in Indiana and also that foreign troops in Texas were going to take over the country.
Did they?
No, and they were supposed to take away our guns and they didn't.
And also your second guest, Major Ed Dames, Yes.
He said that the shuttle that went up after Columbia, that it would come down in a fiery crash and that would be the beginning of the kill shot.
And I'm wondering what happened with that.
It didn't happen either.
Okay.
All right.
I, um, I just, I'm kind of trying to get their consistencies here about some things, you know, uh, even people that work at McDonald's, you know, the federal government makes billions of dollars every year He's taking taxes out, and he's calling them wasteful consumers, and people are getting systematically slaughtered in Indiana.
In Indiana?
Yeah.
Death camps in Indiana.
Death camps in Indiana.
Well, you don't honestly believe that, do you?
No, sir.
I just find it kind of strange that after the millennium, and after especially 9-11, that you don't hear anything about it.
Yeah, but there's good reason for that?
It's not true?
It's true, yeah.
It's not true.
It's sad to say that, you know, people that are doing that, making money off of, you know, 3,000 innocent deaths and, you know, I just really can't... All the people I know, they're so naive they buy into it that the government was behind it.
I'm not one of them, sir.
I'm not one of them.
I don't believe any of that baloney.
I don't... I'm sorry.
Our government is not angelic.
Make no mistake about it.
Our government is not angelic.
I know we've done things, we've overthrown governments, we've had dictators assassinated, we've had bad guys swept away, as it were.
We've done wet work.
And we're not angels.
But, I also don't for one second now, nor have I ever believed, that we orchestrated 9-11.
Somehow, put together, even indirectly, in any way at all, aided, even slightly, in those that crashed airplanes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon and so forth and so on.
No.
I don't believe that.
Death camps in Indiana?
No, I don't believe that either.
Alright, Maurice in Pennsylvania, wildcard line, you're on the air.
And now for a complete change of pace, as some say.
Yes.
I'd like to talk about my favorite insect, and it's the cicada, the 17-year cicada here in the U.S., and I'm talking about it for a reason, and that is I'm wondering if things have been done by scientists to figure out how these little insects, such as the ones that were over in Asia before the tsunami, Didn't do their thing.
Didn't chirp, didn't buzz.
And, you know, the old natives who lived on some of these islands off the Asian coast figured out what was going on and saved themselves and maybe a bunch of their tribe's people.
And I think there needs to be more research along those lines.
You know, insects predicting or at least giving us some sort of warning about earthquakes, tsunamis, and what have you.
In other words, you're saying, listen to the cicada!
Listen to the cicada, which often is confused with the locust, but that's a whole different other subject, because locusts eat veggies and cause all kinds of crop damage.
Cicadas are harmless.
They do their thing, they mate, and they make babies, and they die in the winter.
But these 17-year ones, and there's also 13- and 14-year species as well, and they are prime numbers, by the way.
How much do you like cicadas, sir?
Well, I've kind of studied a little bit of research here and there, and I've kind of got attracted to them because of the fact that they come up every year, and the one-year ones, and when the tsunami hit a few years ago, and of course it was mentioned on the news broadcast, I think it was 60 Minutes, that they brought this kind of thing up, and I thought, wow, this could be You know, a help.
And I know there's been animal research, you know, done with dogs and cats and birds and things and how they... They know about earthquakes, that kind of thing, so why not?
Right, right.
And I think we need to kind of help along with that sort of thing.
And what's the word I'm looking for?
Amalgamate that research and kind of make it beneficial to man.
I agree with you completely.
There are people who predict earthquakes based on the lost dog ads in newspapers and that sort of thing.
Humans also have this ability, you know.
We have the ability to know when something like that is coming.
We have the ability to understand.
If we listen to ourselves, if we're quiet and listen to ourselves, we can feel it coming.
We can feel something really evil coming our way.
But we've sort of given up on that.
Instead we're and I'm I'm as guilty.
I'm probably more guilty.
I rely on modern communications.
I love my cell phone.
I Love to text.
I love shortwave radio.
I love every form of radio and communications the Internet.
I'm into it all So I'm probably as deaf to this sort of thing as the next guy But I do recognize that human beings have this basic intuitive ability that animals have And all we have to do is listen carefully.
Okay, let us go to what's, I guess, wildcard line 5.
Matt, in Florida, you're on the air.
Hey, talking about a great evil coming our way, and you go to me.
Thanks!
No, Art, first off, it's an honor and a privilege to be on with you once again, and if you and Aaron are ever in St.
Pete, you have an open invitation to dinner.
Well, you know, I'm going to have to bring her to Florida because the climate would remind her of the Philippines.
Yeah, well, that's what I wanted to talk about.
The weather, especially in New York, it reminds me of the opening chapters of this book I've read a couple of times.
You might have heard of it.
It's called The Coming Global Superstorm.
I've heard of that somewhere, yes.
Yes, yeah, but you know, 72 in New York and it looks like down here it's supposed to get up to like 85 tomorrow.
And even for us, that's just really weird.
85, and then what did you say in New York?
72.
72 in New York.
Yeah, people in New Jersey are telling me the same thing.
That's absolutely bizarre.
This is January.
I don't recall that ever happening.
Now, I'm sure it has, but I don't recall.
Yeah, it's kind of weird.
And on the satellite thing, It's a good idea if we get somebody like Kevin Mitnick to hack into the satellites and point themselves.
Kevin's been in enough trouble already.
Yeah, but you know what?
If he did something like that, I'm sure a lot of us Patriots could get together and put a very nice defense fund together for him.
Well, he's had quite a bit of that too.
I think Kevin needs to rest, but there are others ready to pick up the mantle.
Yeah, that's true.
Okay, Art, you have a good one.
It's good to have you back, and let me give a shout-out to my nephew.
Micah, what's up?
All right, well, we're not supposed to allow that, but when it occurs just like that, what can you do?
Wildcard Line, Jared in Winslow, Arizona.
Hello.
Hello.
I'm calling here from work.
I'm glad that I got in.
I had to call in when Mr. Steber was on about the weather.
Because up here in Northern Arizona, I actually live in Snowflake, and that's about 6,000 feet.
And it's interesting because the last night of the year, on the 31st, it was like 6 degrees, which is normal.
And then the following day, the same time on New Year's Day, it's about 4 in the morning, it was 40 degrees.
40.
Do they still talk about the great abduction there in Snowflake?
I know about it.
My uncle was one of the deputies on the case.
But I'm out here working, doing the same kind of thing.
I'm working in state prison out here doing the exterior perimeter.
But I know that case very well.
I know all the guys that were involved in it.
And if you're asking me if I believe it, I've seen some awful strange things myself.
So I firmly believe it.
You know, they took a number of lie detector tests and passed.
Well, Mr. Walton and I, we were, actually about six years ago, we were pallbearers at a mutual friend's funeral.
So I know Mr. Walton quite well.
I'm quite a bit younger than him.
Yeah, Travis is a very honest, straightforward guy.
I interviewed him, I interviewed his boss, I interviewed all kinds of people on that case, and in my opinion, there's no question about it, that man was abducted by aliens.
Yeah.
It's a pretty interesting story, especially if you get a chance to sit down with him and talk to him about it.
You know, there's no way it could be any different.
But, yeah, this weather thing, it's crazy.
You know, when I was a kid growing up, The north side of all the buildings after the first snow, that same snow was on the ground in March.
And we haven't had but two little storms, maybe three to four inches.
Here's what I'd say to you.
If you think it's crazy now, you just wait.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I'm afraid we're in for a ride.
Yeah, we're in for a ride.
All right.
Thank you very, very much for the call from Snowflake.
That's a pretty small place.
That's how I figured he'd certainly No, about the case.
Movie was fire in the sky, remember?
First time caller line, Henderson, Nevada, just over the hill here.
Chris.
Hey, Art.
Only got a few seconds, Chris.
Say something profound.
Um, the prompt, uh, immigration.
Um, now that you're back, do you see a change to the new immigration reform?
What do you mean?
Do you think that it has changed quite profoundly as far as since you've left?
Oh, you mean Trump?
Has Trump changed?
Uh-huh.
No!
There's some new stuff here and Trump's grown a little bit.
It's a very fast-growing community.
But, the basic nature and the character of Pahrump is always, is now, and what it's always been, and that's kind of the Old West.
It's the individual, it's the open, free space, it's, it's America.
I'm Art Bell.
This should be very, very interesting tonight.
Dr. Lee Bauman, author of God at the Speed of Light.
The Melding of Science and Spirituality, Window to God, A Physician's Spiritual Pilgrimage, and the Akashic Light, Religion's Common Thread.
Beginning his journey as a religious skeptic in the 1970s, Dr. Bauman now writes books defending spirituality based on the incredible link between worldwide descriptions of God and the proven scientific nature of physical light.
It's going to be interesting.
His first book was considered one of the inspirations for past CBS television series, Joan of Arcadia.
Remember that?
Lee has also been featured in the TV document, well actually a couple of them, TV documentaries, The Evidence for Heaven and The Search for Heaven, both Grizzly Adams Productions.
Dr. Bauman, welcome to Coast to Coast AM.
Well Art, thank you.
It is a pleasure to be on Coast to Coast.
Is this your first visit?
To Coast to Coast it is, yes.
Yes, uh-huh.
Yes, I thought so.
All right, Doctor, now that we have you introduced, I'm going to take a very brief break and we're going to dive into the material, all right?
Excellent.
Stay right where you are and we'll be right back.
Well, all right, Dr. Bauman, again, welcome back.
And I would like to ask you, you know, I have interviewed probably hundreds, if not thousands, of doctors and scientists, and I find that the great percentage of them, when they're pressed right to the wall, Which I do with a lot of them.
Don't believe in God at all.
Yes, I have found that to be exactly the case.
I agree.
And I think the reason for that, at least from my own experience, having gone through undergraduate school, where I personally was a biology major and a chemistry minor, and then of course we go through medical school, the scientific method basically mandates that If you cannot prove that something exists, then you have to doubt its true existence.
And certainly that was where I found myself, and I think that's where most of my colleagues are right now.
And certainly with theories such as Darwin's theory of evolution, At least in the distant past, there were so many concepts which dictated against the existence of a higher being, and that was where I was in the mid-1970s.
What kind of doctor are you?
I am internal medicine and geriatrics.
Okay.
A medical doctor.
Yeah, quite clearly.
And you've been a doctor for how long?
Oh, let's see.
I graduated from medical school in 1976.
76.
So it's been about 30 years.
Yeah, for a while now.
Are you still actively practicing?
I am not.
I got into administrative medicine, basically working for insurance companies back in 1990, and I've just slowly reduced my workload since that time, especially when I got into this writing.
It has just been an overwhelming thrill to be able to influence so many people without the laying on of hands.
What made you decide to write a book?
Well, it was quite serendipitous.
What happened back in the 1970s, and this was when I was actively practicing, I considered myself a religious skeptic.
And I developed an interest because of Raymond Moody, who was another physician and philosopher who came out with the first book, first published book, on the near-death experience.
Obviously, being a physician, that interested me.
Both my wife, who was also a physician, and myself found ourselves unfortunately resuscitating people.
And we always wondered, you know, what exactly was going on during the resuscitative process.
We had a good idea what was going on from the medical and physiologic standpoint, but from the spiritual standpoint, of course, you learn absolutely nothing.
And I guess that's because there's really nothing to learn, nothing can be proven from that standpoint.
No, no, no, but there are things to learn.
I mean, there must have been some things that your patient said After being resuscitated, for example, that made you curious?
Well, yes.
I had a few interesting cases.
In particular, I remember when I was still a resident, actually, in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
I was called up on a floor to pronounce a patient.
Now, pronounce them dead, that is.
Right.
And I went up, and being a resident, you know, still somewhat Naive and not wishing to make any errors, I was just very complete in my examination of this poor individual.
I examined the heart, made sure there were no heart sounds.
I listened to the lungs to make sure they weren't breathing, and indeed, that was the case.
So, I signed the papers and pronounced the patient dead.
Thirty minutes later, I was called back on the floor and the nurses said, you know, Dr. Baumann, that patient you pronounced is now alert and talking.
Oh my God.
I said, what?
So that was my first introduction into this, you know, paranormal realm of what perhaps might be going on, so many things we don't understand.
Well, I'm curious about just that patient.
How could that be?
How could you find no signs of life?
You said you were extra careful.
Yes.
And this guy was gone.
Well, you know, in retrospect, looking back on my research over the last 30 years, I think this type of thing is not that extraordinary.
There are cases of near-death experiences, you know, throughout the ancient literature, and certainly you can find them on Amazon.com in great quantity today.
And I think that's exactly what happened, was this patient probably was dead.
For some unknown period of time, and for reasons that we just cannot explain, they came back.
Did this patient have anything to say?
I mean, the nurse said he was alive and alert.
Now, did he say, I've been somewhere, or I just woke up, I have no memory of what happened, or was it a heart attack?
Well, actually this patient had Had senile dementia, so they were not that coherent.
You could not communicate well with them.
I remember I checked on the patient to make sure that indeed they were alive and, you know, this was the case.
The patient was speaking not very well from a communicative perspective, so I wasn't able to do any type of interview or find out exactly from that standpoint what had
transpired.
But just that and that.
I'm sorry, doctor.
Doesn't that bring into question, I mean, if you can really be careful and examine somebody
and know they are dead, and then it turns out they're not dead, doesn't that honestly
bring into question the whole question of when somebody really is dead?
Absolutely.
And I think that's why we read so many stories about, in fact, one very interesting case that I discuss in God at the Speed of Light, where a patient lay in the hospital morgue in cold storage for like three days.
You know, and the pathologist came in and was getting ready to perform his autopsy when he noticed his eyelid move.
One thing led to another and they ended up doing surgery and the patient fully recovered.
I think it happened more than we would like to admit.
Oh!
Lying in the morgue in cold storage for three days!
That's awful!
It sends shivers up your spine, doesn't it?
It truly does.
And I forget who it was.
I was interviewing another physician who told me that in the very old days, They would actually bury people with a rope and a bell up top so that in case they woke up they could pull on, yank on this rope and a bell would ring and I guess whoever was overseeing the cemetery would dig them up.
Well, exactly.
I've heard stories like that.
The stories I've heard were more in relation at periods when narcolepsy was a real fear.
When people would actually pass out and appear to be dead Which might, you know, go on for hours, if not longer, and these people would be buried.
Of course, I would question how thorough that physical exam was at the time, but apart from that type of natural medical disorder, I think, you know, there still are cases where people have perhaps been buried when they might Still be alive.
Is there anything in science that can explain no brainwaves, no heart beating, no respirations, dead, and then 30 minutes, 2 hours, 5 hours, 3 days later, alive?
Anything in science that can explain that?
To my knowledge, no.
You know, the simple answer is no.
I think Various people can come up with hypotheses and theories as to why it perhaps was not detected.
Maybe just a very low blood pressure, a thready pulse that the physician could not detect, which is possible.
Certainly in the intensive care unit, you would often have patients where their blood pressure was so low, the only way you could even detect a blood pressure or a pulse was through something called a Doppler or an ultrasound.
So that does happen, but usually these people, there are ways to detect that they're still alive.
In your work, I know that you talk a lot about spiritual things.
Do you go on past that to believe in the actual God of the Bible, or is there a line that you draw somewhere prior to that?
No.
In fact, I feel very certain that the God of our Bible is the God of all religions.
I basically preach a non-denominational type God.
I was raised as a Christian, so I did come up through that philosophy.
But truly, I believe that the God of all religions is the same God.
And in fact, if you go and read every major spiritual Scripture throughout the world.
I find it so fascinating.
How is God always described?
And he or she is always described in terms of light.
That was one of the eureka moments for me when, you know, through my various research and reading into Einstein's theories of relativity where light is really the cornerstone of that major concept.
And then the near-death experience where the being of light is the main spiritual element of that phenomenon.
And then, lo and behold, every major religion describes its God in terms of light.
And I don't think those are just metaphors.
I truly believe at this point in my life that they're literal.
You believe there is a relationship between light and consciousness, right?
That came about not through my own theorizing.
It actually came about through the words of physicists.
I was not the one to actually term these particular words, like consciousness, for light.
These were actually physicists, if you can believe that.
So, one thing led to another, and there is actually a series of experiments that shows that light alters its behavior based upon its surroundings.
Well, certainly light, we all know light, well, I guess most of us know light is affected by, for example, gravity.
It can bend light, right?
Yes, yes, exactly.
Black holes can swallow light virtually, or bend it.
Yes.
But I wasn't aware of a connection between light and consciousness, and I've been doing a great deal of talking and interviewing on the subject of consciousness.
It's fascinating to me.
But I've not heard anybody try to show a relationship between light and consciousness, so that's new for me, and I'd very much like to hear about it.
I think using the actual word consciousness is something that can be argued, but let me tell you how physicists actually came to coin that term for light.
There was a series of experiments in the early 1900s known as the double slit series of experiments.
And if you read about notables, including Nobel Prize winners like Richard Feynman, he discusses this experiment, the double slit experiment, which was the original experiment in the series.
He describes it as being impossible.
Those are his words.
Absolutely impossible.
And the reason for that is in the original experiment, light is put through a series of steps.
And they know what the final outcome of the experiment is.
They then did a modification where they altered the very last step in the experiment.
The very last step.
What they found, to their utter amazement, was that light altered its actual behavior, the pattern it was progressing through in the experiment.
It altered its behavior in the middle of the experiment.
Far before it even got to the end, where the changes were.
I'm not grasping this yet.
What exactly was the experiment?
Well, the experiment's rather complex, actually.
They send a single photon, or light wave, into the experiment.
It goes through some different channels, reflected off of mirrors and whatnot, and And then the outcome is measured at the end of the experiment.
Now, in the modification at the end of the experiment, they put up some polarized pieces of glass so that they could actually detect the orientation of the photons at the very end of the experiment.
Lo and behold, the light actually I'm trying to put this in simple terms, but it altered its behavior before it even reached the polarized series of pieces of glass at the end.
It actually altered where it was in space.
Its orientation?
As in north, south, east, west?
That was part of it.
Its polarization was part of the behavior change that was seen.
To try to actually verbalize it, I find very difficult.
Even when I go around the country giving my talks, it's so much easier to have a PowerPoint slide up on the screen where I can show all the changes.
But it's just a classic experiment, which, like I say, we have even Nobel Prize winners saying, this is impossible.
But what you have to realize is it's impossible only for human beings Where we are basically trapped in the four dimensions of the three dimensions of space and the fourth dimension of time.
Light, for light, as difficult as it is to grasp this concept I'm about to say, time does not exist for light.
And Einstein showed this.
And it's been proven through particles known as muons that time does not exist for atomic time.
Time does not exist for light.
It does not.
Well, I'm not quite sure I grasp that, because light has a specific speed.
Though that can be changed or affected, for example, as you mentioned, by gravity, we do have this speed of light thing, right?
Exactly, and that's where the confusion comes in.
Yeah, it is confusing, because it takes so long for light to get from point A to point B. We can measure that, right?
But see, the trick is that it's only You're talking about human measurement of life.
Yes.
You have to realize that we are confined to four dimensions.
And we live with time.
We cannot escape time.
And for us to try to talk about an entity, like a photon, or even any of the electromagnetic spectrum, these frequencies, these waves, they are not restricted by time.
And that's where the difficulty comes in, because we cannot imagine something existing without time.
And that's what happened with the double slit experiment.
If you realize that these light waves were traveling around the experiment without regard to time, suddenly that makes sense.
You're telling me that's what the experiment proved, that it traveled in this experiment without regard to time?
Exactly.
And, you know, the first experiment, the double slit experiment, was so... I mean, the results were so unpredictable that the physicist then developed a whole series of experiments afterwards.
Right.
We'll talk about all that in a moment.
We're hard up against a break here.
Dr. Lee Bauman is my guest.
Good morning or whatever.
I'm Art Bell.
Hi everybody, Dr. Lee Bauman is my guest, and Tom Mary from Greeley, Colorado says, isn't it true that as one approaches the speed of light, time slows down, and as it reaches, time actually stops.
As you get to the speed of light, time virtually stops.
It's a question for Dr. Bauman in a moment.
Dr. Bauman, okay, I'm struggling a little bit to understand this.
It does seem as though, as one approaches the speed of light, it slows down.
That is, time slows down, and perhaps even stops as you get to the speed of light.
Yes?
That is absolutely correct.
And, you know, I think Tom had it exactly.
You have to really come very close to the actual speed of light, even for time to begin to slow, at least from an appreciable standpoint.
And once you actually reach light speed, time, at least according to the experiments that have been conducted up to date, will actually stop.
And these concepts, you know, they're easy to phrase.
It's easy to say time stops at light speed, but to actually accept That concept is very difficult.
That's certainly one reason it took me 20 years to write my first book, was you'd read about these concepts, you'd read about the experiments, but it's just so difficult for the human mind to accept.
And that was where I was.
It really is.
And what you're saying to us is that light operates outside of the realm of time altogether, really.
It does.
It does.
It's an incredible concept, but that's what actual physics and scientific experiments have proven.
All right.
You mentioned Dr. Raymond Moody.
I've interviewed Raymond Mo probably a couple dozen times over the years.
He's an incredible guy.
Have you personally ever experienced anything that you would consider to be really, other than that patient you told me about, for example, anything that would be in the paranormal or supernatural arena?
Myself, personally?
Yes, sir.
No.
In fact, I consider myself, I use the term, psychically deprived.
And actually, I take that back.
There was one point about 20 years ago where I woke up in the middle of the night, and I wasn't sure what woke me up, and I looked up, it was pitch black in the room, and I saw a white apparition, a form of a ghost, dressed in Civil War, in a Civil War uniform.
No kidding.
And, of course, I, you know, I didn't believe in ghosts, and I, certainly there was nothing in medicine or science to I don't give any credence to ghosts, so I blinked my eyes a couple of times, and he was still there, and I couldn't believe it.
I felt, you know, for certain I just had something in my eye, and I blinked again, and sure enough, he was gone.
At that exact moment, my wife screams.
She's in the bed next to me.
She screams, which, honestly, she does on occasion when she's sleeping.
She has nightmares, but anyway, she woke up, and I said, I said, Brenda, are you alright?
And she said, yes, I was being chased by a white apparition.
Wow.
And, you know, that has never recurred, and to this day, I don't know if it was just coincidence or a meaningful experience.
Something like that once will do.
It will.
That's really something.
I would say the odds of that being a coincidence can't even be calculated.
But that is, you know, terming myself as psychically deprived except for that single experience.
I've only had a couple myself, a couple of things in my whole life, so I don't think for the average person they're normal, they're abby normal, and if you're lucky you have one or two in your life, just enough to know that it can happen.
Exactly, I agree with that.
Now, NDEs have endlessly fascinated me because if there is any I guess, big question for all of us, and as we get older it gets bigger, and that is whether there is an existence, a consciousness, that continues after death.
Yes.
And NDEs sort of lead us down that path.
How carefully have you looked at all this?
Well, NDEs do lead us down that path, and I think the work that Raymond Moody did, that Dr. Moody did, was just phenomenal.
It was basically, I consider it a Excellent medical study.
The fact that there were so many elements which occurred repetitively and were often corroborated by some of these out-of-body experiences by people who were observed during the experience, but obviously didn't know they were being observed, and they could actually state, yes, I was doing this at that time, I just find are phenomenal.
And I don't think they can be just negated by skeptics.
I think there's a lot of credibility to these observations.
And the fact that many people say, well, drugs caused this, or oxygen deprivation caused it, I don't buy that.
Because so many people, such as my wife would often tell about in the emergency room, You know, these people would go out right there on the litter.
They'd be talking to you one minute, and then they were gone next.
You resuscitated them, and they would come back without the use of drugs, and the amount of time that they were gone would have, you know, sometimes was just a phenomenally short time, maybe 5, 10, 15 seconds, and they're back, and these people would have similar experiences that you couldn't argue were the result of drugs or oxygen deprivation. And
yet these people would often be just as bitter and angry that they were brought
back from this state of euphoria and you know existence on the other side. Well
if you have heard these things from your patients and your wife has, that
must mean that most physicians, emergency room physicians and so forth, have
the same experience fairly frequently and they don't talk about it.
Well, they don't talk about it, and as we alluded to earlier in the conversation, many of these people are indeed atheists and agnostics.
And they cannot understand, in the least, how these young people, you know, people with everything in the future to look forward to, would come back and be upset that they were brought back from the dead.
You know, to them, least of all, doesn't make any sense.
To someone like me, who am now very spiritual, I think it makes, you know, excellent sense.
But for an atheist, you know, to be challenged in the emergency room with such bitterness and anger, they have real difficulty accepting that.
God at the Speed of Light, your book, apparently helped to inspire CBS's Joan of Arcadia.
How did all that occur?
Well, that's an interesting story.
I was just on the Internet one day back in the fall of 2003, and my name came up on one of these search engines under the heading of a TV show.
And so I had to check it out, find out what this was all about.
And lo and behold, here was this very prestigious Hollywood producer and director, Who named my book as one of the books that she had read and had inspired her to create this TV series.
Now, you have to think back.
I was a first-time author and, you know, still quite naive as to all the transpirings that often occur following, you know, even a modestly successful book.
And I just couldn't believe it.
I felt sure that she had the name wrong, and somehow things had gotten messed up, and it wasn't me at all, or it wasn't my book at all.
But as I went on and read about it, indeed it dealt with, the TV show dealt with spirituality, and the character was kind of a tangent, or an offshoot off of the character Joan of Arc.
Who would often see God in this TV series.
So, I was very flattered.
It was quite a thrilling experience.
I'm sure it was.
I'm sure it was.
Now, I want to talk a little more about consciousness.
Are you familiar with the work going on at Princeton, you know, with respect to consciousness?
You would probably have to give me more information.
The simple answer would be no.
Oh.
Okay.
In a nutshell then, what they're doing at Princeton is they have this great big computer And then they have computers all over the world, Doctor.
You're going to have to look into this.
And they dub them eggs.
It has a scientific meaning, but they call them eggs.
And they are simply computers geographically scattered around the world, and they're sitting there spitting out random numbers.
Each one of these computers reports back to the mama computer at Princeton, and as an example, and there are many examples now going back years, but I'll give you the example of 9-11.
They record constantly, kind of like you're looking for an earthquake, and they depend on these computers to be continually spitting out random numbers.
Well, when something starts to get non-random, It is recorded, almost as though you would record an earthquake.
And with major events that have occurred in the world, like 9-11...
Uh, the non-random aspect of it just went right off the chart.
I mean, it just went po-woom!
All of a sudden, about, get this, get this now, 30 minutes before 9-11 actually happened, it just went off the chart.
And that relates to many, many, many big things that have happened in the world.
This has been going on for a number of years now at Princeton.
You can actually go on the web and put in Princeton Consciousness Project or Princeton Eggs and you can actually look at these computers in different parts of the world reporting back to Princeton and it seems as though human consciousness appears to be affecting these computers to begin to go non-random.
There's something in human consciousness that's affecting these computers.
And it appears to be outside of time.
In other words, prior to these events, 30 minutes or so, everything starts going berserk.
Now, how can that be?
You know, 30 years ago I would have dismissed such experiments as nonsense.
There's an explanation lying out there somewhere.
We would just find it eventually.
Anymore, no.
I do not believe in accidents anymore.
So that does not shock me as much as many might think it would.
Oh doctor, this is serious research.
It's been going on for some time and since you're, because of the work you're doing, you've absolutely got to look into this.
It's fascinating stuff.
I will do that.
It's been going on for years.
So there's something outside of time with respect to human consciousness itself, which I guess would key into what you're saying with light being outside of the time spectrum.
Exactly.
And Art, there is something I would like to say to you and the listeners out there.
I want you to understand I am not the type of person that feels at this point in my life that I have all the answers.
I am still learning.
You know, my books do offer an explanation for a higher being in the universe, but I do want everyone to understand I am still learning, and I by no means do have all the answers.
I have found some very interesting relationships between physical light and attributes that we have ascribed to God throughout the millennia, and I think there is a significant connection, but I do not have all the answers.
None of us do.
That's just a point I do wish to throw in there.
Well, point made.
None of us have all the answers.
Well, some people think they do.
Yeah, I know, but I disregard those people.
You looked into NDEs, I guess, fairly carefully behind Dr. Moody, yes?
Yes, absolutely.
When you study his work and other work that people have done with NDEs, does it bring you to the conclusion, positively, in your mind, that there is consciousness following physical death?
Yes.
Yes.
And I have no doubt of that whatsoever.
Now, back in the 1970s, I could not accept the tenet of God based upon faith alone.
In fact, looking through my life, I probably never could.
And that was how science has actually brought me to that point in my life, where now I just feel there is no doubt whatsoever.
And science is the basis for that, including Moody's work with the near-death experience, where as you read the various near-death experiences which are out there, The main element of the near-death experience is undoubtedly when the person undergoing the experience first is introduced to this being of light or to the light itself.
The spirituality associated with it, the peace, the love, the warmth, that has been what has transpired or changed most people's lives who have undergone this type of event.
So, yes, I feel the near-death experience is a definite, very good argument for why consciousness exists following death.
It's a good argument.
I'm still kind of a skeptic, you know, unless I can absolutely prove something.
And NDEs come close, but, you know, I still, somewhere in my mind I say, Well, this could be a dying brain.
Now, I've seen physicians stand up on television specials and say, look, it's a brain dying from the outside moving inward.
Brain cells dying on the outside of the brain, finally moving inward until you begin to get to the core, the middle of the brain.
And what people see is this light at the end of what appears to be a long tunnel, is merely the last part of the brain that has not yet died.
And for those few that come back, that's the experience they relate, and that's why they relate it.
And you dismiss that.
Why?
I have read those accounts.
I have heard the arguments, but I don't buy it.
If you research the dying brain, it has so many similarities to when you're put under general anesthesia, is the typical scenario that I like to bring forth.
If you undergo general anesthesia, you're laying there on the table and the anesthetist Telling you to count backwards and, you know, what happens is everything goes black.
It's not that they see light.
Everything goes black.
And there is absolutely no medical or physiologic explanation for why the dying brain should see light.
There are too many occurrences where people undergo unconsciousness or they're put out under general anesthesia.
And the typical scenario you hear Is everything goes black.
It's not that they see light.
So that, at least from a medical standpoint, is why I just cannot buy those arguments.
It always went black for me.
I've been under a few times and it definitely went black.
I didn't see any light.
Hmm.
All right.
There are multiple descriptions of God.
You say, in terms of light in the Bible, and other religious texts, what kind of descriptions lead you, or where do you see this in Scripture, where it refers to light, other than let there be?
I can give you multiple examples, if you would like.
I would like.
Well, certainly, you know, Christ says, I am the light of the world in the New Testament, And you see similar descriptions in other Christian books, like the Book of Mormon.
Let's see, God is the Blessed One.
The Blessed One is the Light in the Moon and the Sun, and that's in the Bhagavad Gita.
In the Koran, God is described as the Light of the Heavens and the Earth.
from the Upanishads, the Indian Upanishads, is described as the light of lights.
The clear light of pure reality describes Nirvana in the Buddhist Tibetan Book of the Dead.
So God equals light?
Yes, and it goes on and on like that.
All right, but we can't.
We're at a break point.
Hold tight, Doctor.
Top of the hour.
Take a nice deep breath and we'll come back and continue.
Dr. Lee Bauman is my guest.
In the darkness at the moment, here in the high desert.
How you doing, everybody?
I'm Art Bell.
Now, there's a mysterious place, Africa.
I spent some time there.
Let me tell you, it's not like anything you've ever experienced.
If you ever get a chance, and you can travel in this world, in this life, take the opportunity, jump at the opportunity, and see a little bit of what the rest of the world is like.
Dr. Lee Bauman is my guest.
We're talking about God and light, perhaps one and the same.
Doctor, you discuss a lot, I guess, in your books about design, intelligent design, and you obviously believe, I guess, in intelligent design.
Is that fair to say?
It is, yes.
Okay.
How does that work together with the fact that we've apparently been in the works, according to the scientists, for billions of years.
There's been evolution that's gone on for a very long time.
I mean, a lot of fundamentalists think we've only been here for, and I've interviewed them, 6,000 years, and that we got created in six days.
Now, how do you put all that together?
Well, actually, I personally have not.
There is a physicist, again, by the name of Gerald Schroeder, who has written several books on basically his concept of intelligent design, and he came up with What I consider just an absolutely great melding of science and the six days of Genesis, which tries to bring together those two divergent concepts.
The fact that science states the universe has been around for 16 billion years, and the book of Genesis, if you take it literally, indicates we've only been around about 6,000 years.
If you get into the detail of the story of Genesis, what you find is that the sun didn't even appear, didn't even become transparent until like day two in Genesis, and the earth didn't, wasn't created until day three, if I'm recalling properly.
So to try to argue that the six days of Genesis are based upon 24-hour Earth days really doesn't make any sense, because the Earth, you know, didn't come about till the third day.
That's a good point.
And what Schroeder came to synthesize was the fact that, with that being the case, that you couldn't base the days of Genesis upon just the typical Earth day, he developed What he calls universal days.
And he develops it based upon a mathematical premise which is somewhat complex and I don't honestly think your listeners would be very interested but he has a mathematical and scientific rationale for defining his universal days.
And when he does it brings together the Genesis story and science Completely.
It is just an incredible melding of... May I ask this?
Were his universal days linear?
Were they linear, or were they not linear?
In other words, was each day of a... was it of a specific time, or were there differing spans of what we would call time for each one of these days?
Yes, excellent question.
They were not linear.
In fact, they're It's like the reverse of exponential.
The first day consists of 8 billion years, and then the next day is 4 billion, the next day is 2, and it keeps being cut in half, and by day 6, when you add them all up, it comes to 15.75 billion years, which, you know, just fits precisely.
Well, it does for now.
If they find another pulsar, it could get all thrown... Exactly.
Okay, what about evolution, or what we know about evolution versus, you know, Adam and Eve and that whole thing?
Yes, well, evolution for me personally, and I'm sure for many other scientists, has always been a great argument for why you don't need God.
And it certainly was that way for me.
When all these things began to click about, you know, the common characteristics of physical light and how they compared with attributes of God, that was one thing, but you still had the theory of evolution out there, just as a thorn in my side.
And what science has found, and I'm just totally shocked that People who argue intelligent design don't bring up this concept, which is very well documented, is the fact that there's a period in the Cambrian era.
Now, the Cambrian era, you know, back in the dinosaur age, existed between 543 up through 490 million years ago.
So it's been, you know, a while ago.
490 million years ago. So it's been, you know, a while ago.
But there's a period during that Cambrian era known as the Cambrian explosion.
And that's actually, if you go to look it up on the internet, that's what you would, that's the search term you would use.
Cambrian Explosion.
And that period of the Cambrian Era lasted only about 5 to 10 million years.
That is the time period during which single-celled organisms, both plant and animal, just exploded into all the multicellular diverse life forms that have grown up to what we now recognizes as complex life here on the earth.
If you place into computer models all the genetic mutations, survival of the fittest, all that, you know, complex detail that Darwin argued, if you place that into a computer model, what you find is There is no way that could have taken place over just 5 to 10 million years.
In fact, the computer models spit out time periods on the order of hundreds of millions of years, not just 5 or 10 million years.
That is probably the greatest single argument against Darwinian evolution, and I would stress Darwinian evolution.
I think there may well be other Perhaps modifications to this theory, accelerated forms of evolution, perhaps even evolution where life was seeded outside of our planet, you know, whether you want to argue Mars and the Martian meteorites, or even outside of our solar system.
I think those are all possible, you know, candidates, but Darwinian evolution is incompatible with fossil records.
Your life was seeded, is what you said, right?
Well, I'm just saying that's perhaps one possibility.
We don't know.
Why?
You know, the Russian meteorite found... Oh, yes.
Yes, yes.
But life was seeded.
When you say that, that opens up all kinds of possibilities other than Adam and Eve.
Well, now, please understand I didn't say it was seeded.
I just said that was a possibility.
Well, okay.
I mean, I try to keep an open mind.
I don't rule out anything that we cannot disprove, and I don't think we can disprove that.
But can you take part of it and say, I believe this, and then sort of reject or not fully embrace other parts of it?
I try not to reject any idea.
You know, I find even blatant lies probably have some You know, I think that's certainly extreme.
But, you know, often when you read about some of these stories in the newspaper and you say, you know, I know that's not true.
Usually, I find that there might be some small phrase in there, which probably is true.
I'm going to give you something to worry you.
It's worried me ever since I heard it.
Somebody that I interviewed and very much like, John Lear, actually the son of Bill Lear, claims to have not authored this himself, but passed it on from somebody else.
He said, when you die, it is traditional to, everybody knows, to go to the light.
Go to the light.
He said, it's a trick.
Don't go to the light, go to the darkness.
The light is a trick.
And ever since I heard that, it has bothered the hell out of me.
That would bother me.
It doesn't bother you a bit, I know, you're into light.
But I just thought I'd drop that on you.
Well, you know, in fact, when I hear people say, well, Dr. Bauman, how do you explain the hellish NDEs?
The ones where people do not see light, where they're in darkness and groping figures or grasping at them.
There are so many stories where the person having that particular NDE, if all they do is say, oh God help me, what happens?
All of a sudden the light appears and embraces them.
Now that doesn't happen all the time, but that's a very common theme.
When people are in those dark, hellish NDE's that you often hear about.
Do you believe in a heaven and a hell?
I do.
Well, I believe in a heaven.
I have not rejected a hell.
I think that's certainly a possibility, but I don't know.
Um, there are very few, percentage-wise, very few hellishly described NDEs.
However, I would think that, number one, most people are loathe to describe any NDE at all for fear that people will think they're crazy or won't believe them or whatever.
Yes.
But certainly a hellish NDE, people would be very, very unlikely to come back and tell their friends they went to hell and somehow made it out.
Exactly, although I have talked to a couple of individuals who have told me that, have actually told me about these hellish NDEs.
Really?
Yes.
Since you knew these people, I guess to some degree, if you were to have judged them from what you knew of them, would you be surprised that they went to hell and came back?
From the stories that I have heard, yes.
And, you know, I think you could argue why that might or might not be the case.
Wait a minute.
Yes, you were surprised?
Yes, I was surprised.
So there were basically good people who shouldn't have been going?
At least I thought they were good people.
I see, all right.
Interesting.
So, you do have a few problems, then, with the whole evolution thing, and then what the Bible says.
Well, actually, if I interpret the six days of Genesis based upon Schroeder's universal days, there is no problem at all.
Well, I know, but then there's Adam and Eve, and I mean, it sort of describes how it all happened, and does that still work with even those very long days?
Yes.
Yes, I feel they do.
You know, you get into the literal descriptions about how Eve was created from Adam's rib and that type of thing, so I haven't filled in all of those spaces yet.
Right, nor have I. Do you think that the Bible has made it through all of these years intact, or it's been tampered with?
That is actually a subject I do an entire two-hour talk on, so I'm very opinionated when it comes to that.
You know, you get into the Dan Brown arguments, the Da Vinci Code and whatnot.
I think the tampering has been minimal, actually, despite those arguments that you read about and have been so successful in books like the Da Vinci Code.
I feel those have been overblown.
If you've done talks, then you've done, obviously, quite a bit of research in this area.
Was there ever, in the Bible, Doctor, a strong case for reincarnation?
Yes, actually.
They are very subtle references, but the one which always stands out in my mind is that, oh, what is it, I think the disciples of Jesus were Asking him about, and I'm probably going to get this biblical character wrong, I want to say Jehovah, I don't think that's right, but they're asking whether he has returned or will ever return, and Jesus responds to the fact that, don't you understand?
He has already returned, and he was talking about John the Baptist, and that, you know, So yes, I have done research into that, and I do believe personally in karma and reincarnation.
So there are actually references to that, and I do mention them in a couple of my books.
So yes, I have done research into that, and I do believe personally in karma and reincarnation.
It's something I don't discuss freely when I give my talks, but if someone asks me, I do believe in those.
Well, I did, and I appreciate the answer.
Now, most larger modern Christian religions say, uh-uh.
When you die, you're dead until the second coming, and then you'll be resurrected and so forth and so on, right?
Yes.
Yes, that is my understanding as well.
So then, you kind of cherry-pick a little bit, right?
I do the same thing, so don't apologize for it.
Yes, no, I do.
I do.
Things that tend to fit within my belief systems the most conveniently, yes, I do favor those.
Do you think that time travel will eventually be possible into the future and or the past?
Well, in a certain perspective, I definitely, in fact I feel there's no doubt, and again I feel it's It's a proven fact from past scientific experiments.
If you'll allow me, I'll just take some time to give a backdrop to this.
Fire away.
First of all, you have to understand that time slows or even stops at light speed.
And you have to accept that fact.
If you accept that, then it's been shown, and Einstein actually did He did studies on it where he would show how fast you would have to travel for time to slow a certain amount.
And what he actually came up with was what he calls his traveling twin paradox, which I'm sure many of your listeners are familiar with.
And what that shows is that, let's assume you have a pair of twins.
is going to be doing the traveling.
Twin B remains on Earth.
So Twin A takes off, and let's assume he's traveling at like 80% the speed of light, which is pretty fast, but it's not the speed of light.
Twin A travels to a distant star and returns, and what we find is that when Twin A has returned, he or she is years younger Than twin B who has remained on Earth.
Right.
So from that standpoint you can actually say that twin A has traveled into twin B's future.
True.
Some would argue that that's a form of time travel and others would not.
But that is definitely possible.
And I think it's just a matter of time before that occurs.
Without a doubt.
What about the other kind of time travel?
Some type of warp or folding is accomplished here on Earth via some sort of machine.
Right.
That's a very different kind of time travel.
Well, and actually to address that, as we were talking about the double slit experiment and the fact that as human beings we could actually see light and how time did not restrict light in this particular experiment, so it would be that if, as humans, if we could ever escape into a dimension where time did not exist, then yes, there's no reason why time travel could not occur.
Now, whether that is actually ever going to be possible, or whether that's a limitation that has been forever placed upon humankind, is another question.
We would have to escape the bounds of time and space.
Well, it may happen.
I'd love to see it happen, certainly, in my lifetime.
You've obviously done a great deal of thinking about this.
I'm curious what your colleagues, other physicians who have read some of your material, and how they've reacted.
What I have been just very pleasantly impressed with is how favorably they have reacted.
I was expecting quite the opposite.
I was expecting to be accused of blasphemy and, you know, the fact that I just didn't know what I was talking about.
But I think my books argue, I would hope successfully, that my research is built upon the shoulders of giants.
These are not ideas that Lee Bauman, you know, Got it.
Hold it right there, doctor.
We'll be right back.
I'm Art Bell.
Dr. Lee Bauman is my guest.
He is talking about the relationship of light to consciousness and really to God.
So God equals consciousness equals light, I think.
We'll ask about that in a moment.
I'm not sure if I should really ask this, but I guess I will.
Light then equals consciousness, which equals God.
So God is light, yes?
I feel that there is definitely an intimate relationship between God and light, and the conclusion that God equals light is something which I am seriously entertaining.
And that is really based upon what we've discussed up to this point.
If you will keep in mind that the world's major religions always describe its God in terms of light, the fact that the being of light in the near-death experience is often identified with God, or if you're a Christian, Christ.
In quantum physics, and this was really the arena That convinced me of the relationship, possible relationship, between God and light is not only the consciousness of the double slit series of experiments, but quantum physics, believe it or not, actually has shown what I term the three omnis of life.
That's O-M-N-I.
Omni of light.
And they are omnipresence, Being everywhere, omniscience being all-knowing, and omnipotence being all-powerful, of course.
And we readily identify those attributes with descriptions of God throughout the world's literature.
Oddly, quantum physics gives similar descriptions, and it has led notables such as Niels Bohr to make comments, and again another Nobel Prize winner, To make comments that those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum physics could not possibly have understood it.
And it's because these are just ridiculous concepts that most of us, the first time we hear them, cannot conceivably believe because they're just fantastic.
They're out of science fiction.
But what the three omnis are, and we broached upon it temporarily at the beginning of the show, Is if we assume that time does not exist for a light wave, then picture a light wave at one corner of the universe, and it begins its journey to the other side of the universe.
We are assuming, of course, that it doesn't run into something and is absorbed.
But theoretically, that light wave can travel from one corner of the universe to the other corner.
And even though we as humans See it traveling at a specific speed during that time.
For light itself, time does not exist.
So, for the amount of time for that light wave to go from one corner of the universe to the other corner, for light, and that's the key, for light, not for us humans, but for the light wave, time never elapses.
It's ageless.
That's where the omnipresence argument comes in.
The fact that light can theoretically be everywhere in the universe at one time, and time does not elapse.
And again, we have physicists who state that exact fact, that light theoretically can be everywhere.
I've actually heard some people state that they've heard the argument that You know, maybe there's only one light wave in the universe and it's everywhere and, you know, that would be true only for light.
It would certainly not be true for humans because of the time warp that we exist in.
But that's the first omni.
That's the omni of omnipresence being everywhere.
Now, assume that we, as humans, could now be light waves.
And assume that we can be everywhere in the universe at one time.
We would basically know everything that was going on in the universe at that particular moment, wouldn't we?
Now, if you expand that, and the fact that, okay, time does not exist for me now as a light wave, then theoretically, not only do I know everything that is occurring now, but because time does not exist, or stated another way, the past equals the present, equals the future.
Theoretically, I know of events that have not yet occurred in the future.
And I know of events that have taken past, you know, in past times.
And so suddenly, we're launched into the second omni, the omni of omniscience, or being all knowing.
So these are, you know, I readily admit, they're theoretical, but they make perfect sense.
Now, the Omni of Omnipotence becomes a little more problematic because there's one particular concept in physics which makes a valid argument for that.
What I often tell my audiences, though, is from a simple standpoint, just imagine that you're talking about an entity which can be everywhere in the universe at one time.
It probably is not a great giant step to assume that it's probably pretty powerful as well.
However, the actual physics argument and the physics concept is one known as re-normalization.
That's the word normal with RE in the front and isation at the end.
And your listeners can actually look it up on the internet if they're interested.
But what happened was back in the early 1900s, again, as physicists were first trying to calculate energy levels of quantum particles, What they found is if they took a very simple atom, like the hydrogen atom, or if they took a particle like the electron, when they were first calculating those energy levels, they were coming up with ridiculous, infinite results, which didn't make any sense.
What they found was, if you look back upon your basic sciences and examine the interaction of electrons with light, You basically can't separate the two.
Electrons bounce between one electron orbital of atoms to another by either absorbing energy as light or by giving it off as light.
It's very difficult, if not impossible, to separate the interaction of the electron with the photon.
What physicists resolved was that it was this interaction, the fact that light was contributing the apparent infinities to these calculations, they had to actually devise a mathematical protocol, which is known as renormalization, to eliminate, to cancel out the affinities on both sides of the equations.
And only by doing that were they able to get rid of these infinities, which they felt were the result of light.
A lot of physicists, including some very notable figures who exist today, have described the technique of renormalization as sleight of hand, like the magician's hand, as tricks.
And they just don't buy the concept.
They feel it's a false technique which has been placed, you know, within our mathematical world because of a problem that we as humans have had trouble dealing with.
So, that basically accounts for the three, what I call the three omnis.
You add the fourth concept of consciousness, and, you know, you realize you're using descriptors which are used to describe God.
And when you look at the descriptions of God throughout the world's religions, you look at the fact that the being of light and the near-death experience is often identified with God, It just seemed like there was a connection there that was very difficult to refute.
That's kind of how I got from point A to point B in my life and wrote my first book.
Alright, but as humans we are able to measure and discern the speed of light, even if light is in its own realm, ignoring time.
We're able to measure its speed, right?
Yes, yes.
And yet, when we enter the world of quantum physics, two particles, without respect to any measurement of time at all, can react.
And that just throws me off completely.
And I wonder if you've given it some thought.
I mean, even Einstein was troubled by this.
I forget what he called it.
I think it was spooky action at a distance.
Exactly.
You know, quantum physics is so complicated and just so bizarre that we as humans Well, it took me 20 years to lend any credence to those concepts at all, because they were just so fantastic.
And that's what troubles so many people when I give my talks, is the fact that if it's the first time that they have ever heard these concepts, you just can't buy them.
They're just too ludicrous.
It certainly took me 20 years, and that's not an extreme exaggeration at all.
It took me 20 years To put and accept these concepts as being factual.
You know, I would read about a study one day and it would make perfect sense right at that time.
The next morning I'd wake up and review what I had just read and it all of a sudden it didn't make any sense again.
And I would have to go back and review it.
Those concepts are just so challenging.
Well, they are.
Where does your research go now?
Where does it go from here, Doctor?
Well, that's a good question.
I am actually working on my first novel, which has given me a great deal of discomfort, because it's just a new area.
I'm used to writing non-fiction, not fiction.
And I have a few other pies in the oven, but What sort of novel, out of curiosity?
Well, it's going to be a science fiction novel dealing with time delays attributable to near light speeds.
Some people might call it almost time travel.
That makes sense, from the work you've done.
That's a logical extension.
And it gives you, of course, since you're writing science fiction, it gives you a little bit of latitude to play in areas that you're not quite certain of.
Oh, it does.
And I find it, I find it so easy to write when you're writing science fiction, because all of a sudden you don't have to give justification for anything.
That's right.
However, having said that, at the same time, I want my novel to be scientifically accurate.
And I've actually had A couple of university professors, one physics and one biology, who have actually donated their time and effort to be able to review some of the areas to make sure that they are scientifically factual.
So it's been a whole new avenue for me, which I'm just thoroughly enjoying.
Well, those are exactly the kind of books that I love, so I'll look forward to reading it.
Well, thank you.
How does the religious community, as opposed to your colleagues, react to you?
I would think there you'd likely run into some friction.
Well, I did too, and I'm still somewhat mind-boggled that I haven't been challenged more from them.
My own minister has actually invited me to come and talk, and I did go and talk before a Sunday school church group.
Really?
And I've actually given church sermons, if you can believe that.
Really?
I have found people to be very receptive, which has really shocked me, because I had expected major obstacles at having people, especially, you know, your churchgoers, to accept this type of work.
I can only guess it's because many of these people are so familiar with Jesus saying, I am the light of the world, and God being depicted as a burning bush and, you know, other forms of light, that people are really quite more open-minded than I would ever have guessed, and it's just been a real pleasure.
How do you look at the world's various religions?
There was not just Jesus, of course.
No, no, and as I mentioned earlier, almost Every god throughout the planet's religions is described in terms of light.
If I go in even to some of the tribal religions of Africa, because you mentioned Africa earlier in the program, there are many accounts where they describe their gods as shining bright as the sun.
Certainly we have the Egyptians, the Mayans, the Incas, who all worship the sun.
I have to wonder if it's not so much that they were worshipping the sun as it was they were worshipping the light.
Do you believe that in the human brain, Doctor, that there is some part of our brain that virtually demands that we worship something?
I think our human nature is to seek comforting thoughts, and certainly that is part of my own perspective.
I prefer to live thinking that there's something positive, you know, in my future and not something negative like just dust to dust, ashes to ashes.
So, inwardly, I have often questioned if that's not a primary incentive that I have used, but at least I have the comfort of knowing that science, I believe, is backing my work.
And that gives me comfort.
So you don't think there's any possibility that when you die it is ashes to ashes, that it's just, it's not something horrible, it's not hellish, nor is it angelic and comforting and heavenly, it's just nothing?
Well, I don't, and one of the prime reasons for that is there are many equations, physics and chemical, which show conclusively that At the end of time, when this universe no longer exists, the one definite remnant of our universe, when all matter deteriorates, is going to be light.
And if for no other reason, even if I was a pure agnostic, I would have to admit from the scientific principles that exist, that my ashes will someday, if for no other reason, become pure light.
And if light indeed is the three omnis and consciousness, then I think even the atheist has to admit that at least in the end he will become a being of light.
So, what do you think scientifically the path to God is?
Is it the study of consciousness?
Or light?
Or both?
I think that is a very complex arena.
I do not have that answer.
My naive, spontaneous answer is I think it's a combination of both.
But certainly God is probably much too complex for any human being to think that he has the understanding to describe.
Do you think there is a possibility that science will eventually begin to approach an understanding of the Creator?
I hope so, and I hope my work may be, you know, a seed which opens that flower that someday we will have a much greater understanding of the works of our Creator.
And again, your colleagues, you say, have greeted this quite well.
I would not have expected that.
I mean, the average scientist and doctor just simply doesn't have time for all of this.
They believe in what they can prove and what they can lay their hands on and that's about it.
You press them and they simply don't believe in God.
Yes, and I certainly have many colleagues that would stand by that on the same I have physician colleagues that love my books, have taken me out to dinner because they just want to interrogate me and interview me and glean more information, and they have actually talked their colleagues into buying my books.
It's just been a phenomenally wonderful experience for me.
That may be because though they're agnostic, they really want the comfort of being able to believe, and perhaps they think somebody of your stature can convince them.
And I hope I have in some small way achieved that.
All right.
When we get back, it's the audience's turn, and I'm going to be very, very curious, and you should be prepared, Doctor, because You're going to get just about anything and everything as we open the phone lines for Dr. Lee Bauman.
Light, consciousness, God.
That's what we've been talking about.
When we get back, it's your turn.
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I'm Art Bell.
Let there be consciousness.
Good morning, everybody.
Dr. Lee Bauman is my guest.
He's written a number of books.
Actually, the Akashic Light, we haven't discussed that yet, A Window to God, A Physician's Spiritual Pilgrimage, God at the Speed of Light.
The Melding of Science and Spirituality.
And then, of course, Akashic Light, the religion's rather common thread.
And I guess we should discuss that in a moment, and then we'll go directly to calls if you'll just stay right there.
The Akashic Light, religion's common thread.
What are those threads, Doctor?
In the Akashic Light art, I ...was basically greatly disturbed, as probably all Americans were, after the events of 9-11.
And, having done my research which led to God at the Speed of Light, and recognizing that the God of all religions was described in terms of light, it seemed to me there was an obvious commonality amongst all religions.
And, you know, the fact that Muslims were fighting Christians, and were Fighting just Judeo-Christian philosophies in general, and vice versa, for that matter, I felt was the major stimulus for this book.
What I attempt to do is go into strict detail with all of the world's religions, showing how God is described in terms of light.
How the commonalities outweigh the differences amongst our world religions.
I discuss, obviously, the Three Omnis and Consciousness.
I go into all of the significant spiritual passages between the world's religions, and the one aspect which intrigued me the most was that dealing with Islam, with the Muslim religion.
As Westerners, we often quote one of the surahs, one of the passages from the Quran, and we quote the passage that reads, when you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
And that's one of the several passages which Westerners feel is the reason for all this violence that we're seeing from the Islamic radicals.
What suddenly occurred to me in the midst of doing research for this book was, okay, that's one viewpoint, and as Judeo-Christians we can argue that they're a violent religion, but what I found as I furthered my research in this area was, as Judeo-Christians, we can't We can't talk, basically.
We have as violent, if not more violent, passages in our Old Testament, in our own Bible.
The one passage which I give out in my talks reads as follows, Moses and Eliezer the priest and all the leaders of the congregation went forth to meet them, speaking of the army of Moses, and Moses was angry with them.
He said, Have you let all the women live?
Now therefore kill every male amongst the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.
But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
And, you know, I don't bring that up to belittle the Judeo-Christian religion, because I think it's a great religion.
We just can't be hypocrites.
We have our own violent passages and our own sacred texts, and I think we just need to acknowledge that.
We need to acknowledge that the people incurring the violence over in the Middle East are indeed radicals.
This has been going on for millennia between Christians and Muslims and There's no reason in my mind why we all can't get along, is the oft-quoted phrase.
We're really all brothers and sisters, we're worshipping the same God, and there's just no need for this violence.
And yet, if anything, it seems to be on the increase.
Sadly, it seems to be the case, and it's a very complex situation.
I'm not sure what the outcome's going to be.
All right, with that in mind, to the audience we go.
First time caller line, you are on the air with Dr. Lee Bauman.
Good morning, gentlemen.
Great conversation.
Doctor and Art, you're both doing great jobs.
My name's Kevin.
I'm from Western Pennsylvania.
And as I was listening earlier in your conversations, you were talking about time and relativity and so forth.
And being that religion kind of gets smacked around when you're Conversation goes between science and religion, trying to find common ground.
Religion takes kind of a hit.
But there are indications in the Bible, and just briefly, in the New Testament, Jesus said, in my kingdom, a day is as a thousand years as a thousand years is as a day.
And I'd like to get your opinion on that quote as to Genesis, relativity, and time.
And, uh, the other, uh, being a Catholic, that I am, we recite what's called the Nicene Creed at Mass.
And, and your questions, I heard you asking earlier, in reference to, is God Light.
Uh, even way back when they, in time, when they made the Nicene Creed, after the Council of Nicea, they came up with this creed, and I'm just going to read a very brief part of it.
God from God, Light from Light.
First of all, Kevin, I think that's an excellent question.
So I throw that at you as something to think about.
Doctor, what would your opinion be on that?
First of all, Kevin, I think that's an excellent question.
The passage about a thousand years, I think, works in so beautifully with what I described earlier
about Gerald Schroeder's melding of the days of Genesis with the scientific era of 16 billion years.
And I would have to wonder whether that passage isn't a reference to a similar relationship.
The fact that the day that is used in Genesis is and cannot be just the 24-hour Earth Day, and is probably indeed much more.
In fact, I would argue more than even thousands of years.
We would actually be talking billions of years.
So that is how I would address the first question regarding the Nicene Creed.
I think, again, the comment relative to God is God, light is light.
I could see that some would argue that they're not the same, that indeed they're separated in that creed.
And I think others would take the opposite viewpoint and say, you know, they're right next to one another and they're implying a relationship.
So I don't know what the people who attended the Council of Nicaea, what their actual intent was, but certainly you know my viewpoint.
Wasn't that the very same Council where the whole concept of reincarnation was basically dumped?
Yes, I believe that is correct.
I think that is the council where they said that any thought of reincarnation was anathema.
And doesn't that have to do with control?
If you're coming back again and again, then any control in this lifetime is off the table almost.
I would have to agree with that.
I think people do often try to control religion and our minds by statements, and we have the power as humans to either accept or refute, you know, those type of demands and even creeds for that matter.
Okay, west of the Rockies, Larry in San Francisco.
You're on with Dr. Bauman.
Two questions, Dr. Bauman.
Are you aware of the prevalence of light images in psychedelic experiences, especially with the tryptamine psychedelics, such as psilocybin mushrooms, ayahuasca?
People often report the sun I know in my own case with mushrooms, the sun was so bright, even though it was at night, that my impression of the sun was so bright I felt like I was getting a sunburn.
People often report seeing eyes, eyes that you up, they're so intense looking, so eyes and light and so on, and psychedelic experiences.
I wonder if that plays into what you're talking about.
And the other question, more basic, is simply, if the light is God, what's the dark?
Is the dark God also?
Is the dark the devil?
I remember a song I used to sing when I was a pagan that talked about how beautiful the light is, But the dark is healing.
The dark is where the answers are to things that have no answers.
And, you know, the dark has a place in the world, too.
Okay, Collar.
A lot to tackle there.
Psychedelics.
I don't know, Doctor, whether you've looked into this at all, but I've interviewed many pretty legitimate people who feel that There is a path to that we call God, or our inner self, our consciousness, through the use of some of these psychedelics.
Any comment?
Yes, I have several comments, actually.
One, I think there could be a very rational argument that some drugs do indeed help reduce the veil that separates us, perhaps, from our Creator, and that's why we're seeing the light.
So I could see that as one valid argument, whether that's the actual answer, I don't know.
And the second comment is that obviously that's one reason why people who do not believe that the NDE is a part of the future afterlife is, you know, their conviction that drugs are causing the experience.
And that is where I would refute that argument because so many people have the same experience who have received no drugs and similarly have had also no anoxia.
Actually though, Doctor, people who have taken some of these psychedelics report remarkably similar experiences.
Yes, exactly.
Remarkably similar.
And his other comment was about the darkness.
If light I love that question, because certainly you can go into the world's literature, and just as I made comments favorable about the light, you always read what we have always assumed to be the metaphors about the dark, you know, representing Satan and whatnot.
I do not know about that.
The darkness is certainly an area of intrigue for me.
If you look at the physics literature, what you find is that even in the total absolute darkness of outer space, there are over 400 million photons of light, but it's non-visible light.
So light still exists even in total darkness.
One of the things which I tell people who do describe some of these hellish dark NDEs to me, Is that, you know, you're still in the light.
It's a non-visible light, but I get that information out, at least as some small form of comfort for those that have that experience, because there is actually light in total darkness.
Okay, let's go to wildcard line three.
That would be Mark in Pennsylvania.
You're on with Dr. Bauman.
Good evening, or good morning.
Yes, sir.
Yes.
Quite a range of topics tonight.
Just let me premise myself that I believe that I'm a natural scientist, and that I had some NDEs 20, 25 years ago, and led me down the same path that you gentlemen are talking about tonight.
I just wanted to throw a couple concepts out at you and then ask a question.
Oh, and by the way, that antimatter quantum physics may discover that there's a whole spectrum range of light, which we know nothing about, just as the spectrum of light we know today.
The antimatter qualities may turn out to be another completely different spectrum of scientific qualities of antimatter.
Okay, you have a question?
Well, my first comment is, if you consider what God considers as time without being out of our space and time, consider a yardstick, zero would be 2,000 years ago, 18 inches would be today, and 36 inches would be 2,000 years ahead of us, if you had God's perspective of time.
Outside of our time.
We talk about a collective consciousness.
In our mind right now, you can feel your toe, and you can feel your finger at the same time.
Alright?
Imagine if your toe was 10 million light years out there, and your finger was 10 million light years in the other direction.
In your own mind, in your consciousness, you can feel both of those places at the same time.
And it could be that the consciousness of God We can actually be in those same two places, like we can feel our finger and our toe at the same time.
My question relates to physics and Einstein.
Einstein predicted black holes.
He knew black holes existed.
Theoretically, he worked out that stars would collapse and black holes would be created.
70, 60, 70 years after Einstein, man saw light bending around black holes.
In fact, man discovered that light sucked into black holes.
And there's probably an energy change with the acceleration of light in a black hole.
So my question really is, with our perceptions, with our known perception, what we know today, Light is matter, and we can now prove that light matter is susceptible to gravitational pull, just like any other matter in the universe.
So, I wanted to know if Dr. Baumann had ever considered that, in saying that light is God.
And I believe that light is just another creation of God.
And that it's maybe a vehicle of communication by God.
But light by itself, in our perception, is still matter.
Okay.
Alright.
Light as matter, Doctor?
Yes.
A very good question.
And certainly Einstein, with his famous equation, E for energy equals MC squared, where M basically stands for matter, would verify that.
So I feel that's a proven concept that certainly exists out there.
The fact that gravity is able to bend light, and wondering if gravity, whether Mark is suggesting that gravity has some type of power over light, and hence God, which would not be very rational.
Again, I would make the observation that According to Einstein, gravity is merely a warping of space.
And that again is an observation that we as humans have regarding gravity, because we're again locked within the four dimensions of space and time.
Whether that actually holds true for the photon itself, because just because we observe something doesn't mean that that's the case That's an interesting point.
All right, doctor, hold it right there.
Dr. Lee Bauman is my guest.
From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
You know, it's very interesting, actually, over the years now, and it's been a lot of years, my own feelings, my own religious philosophy, and all the rest of it, my own feelings about how we got here, who God is, whether God's real, How it all fits together have been formed by years of listening to the guests that I've had on this program, and that influence probably bigger than any other in my life.
Sort of the university of the air, as it were.
Dr. Lee Bauman is the teacher this night, and he'll be right back.
Doctor, you seem to associate light with the Creator.
Adam in Andover, Minnesota sends the following by computer.
It's been shown that light travels through the path of least time, not least resistance.
What if light were to bend around black holes because it would be much faster than traveling through one?
Very interesting question.
The concept of least time, I remember hearing about in a Richard Feynman lecture, so I know that is certainly a valid and proven concept for the travel of light through space.
So I have no problem with that at all.
I'm not sure I totally understand the relationship between it traveling around it as opposed to traveling through it, because it would be my understanding that the light that is actually impacting directly with the black hole
would be absorbed by the black hole.
And the only light that is being bent around it are those light waves that are traveling out
beyond the perimeter and then are bent toward in that direction again so that we were even able to
visualize it. So I'm not sure if I've answered that question. Okay, but that's my understanding.
All right.
Um...
West of the Rockies.
Autumn in New Mexico.
You're on with Dr. Bauman.
Yes.
Good evening, Dr. Arndt.
I'm really enjoying your show.
Thank you.
I have a question about once when I was ill and right before I didn't pass out, but I blacked out.
I saw black.
And right after I saw black, I saw a grid.
Have you heard of that happening before?
And what do you think that means?
I wasn't clear.
I'm sorry, Doctor.
I'm not familiar with the grid.
Certainly, I've heard various scenarios for different type of near-death-like experiences.
The grid I cannot give or even give an opinion on.
I'm not familiar with it.
Can you describe what you mean by a grid?
A grid, such as, you know, Oh gosh, I don't know how to say it actually.
You know, like a chart?
When you make a chart and there's a grid, just lines that are crossed.
Okay.
All right, so that's what you saw.
Very difficult, then I agree with the doctor.
It's going to be hard for us to comment on them.
But thank you very much for the question.
Doctor, people see a lot of different things in altered states, I guess would be a way to put it.
Right.
And it's really hard to separate it all.
And I guess all you can do is keep studying.
Agreed.
That's kind of interesting.
I continue to search.
There's no doubt.
East of the Rockies in Texas.
Matthew, you're on with Dr. Bauman.
Hey, thanks for taking my call, Art.
Sure.
I have a comment here.
I was wondering if either one of y'all are familiar with the term catapult, as it's used in the Bible.
Not me.
Okay, see, I do a lot of Bible study in ancient languages, the Hebrew, Aramaic, and stuff like that.
The catapult is an event that happened I've got to go back to the beginning in Genesis here.
The very first words out of Genesis is, in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, period.
It stops right there.
Then an event happened called the catapult, which was Satan's overthrow.
God destroyed that earth age that was then.
That's when the dinosaurs were here and stuff like that.
The Hebrew is really specific.
But it goes on to say that then the earth was void and without form.
The Hebrew says the earth became void and without form.
And I believe that the first earth age, that's when the dinosaurs were roaming around and
stuff like that, God destroyed that age and he ushered in a new one.
And you can kind of date it back to about maybe 12,000, 13,000 years ago.
That's why you see mastodons with buttercups in their mouths.
You see palm trees at the North Pole.
A large event happened at that time.
And most scholars agree that it was about 12,000 years ago.
And as 1,000 years with the Lord, as it says, you know, you can go in the Hebrew with that
You can almost get it down to God created the earth, you know, on the 6th day, the 7th day, He rested.
Well, it's about 7,000 years, and you kind of start getting to where we're at now, if you follow that chronological order.
And you can also see where civilization started.
You know, they call the cradles of civilization Mesopotamia.
And they define, you know, what makes someone civilized is the ability to farm and not be hunters and gatherers.
And most scholars agree that that was around the Mesopotamia time.
And Adam, which was made on the eighth day, was a farmer.
God created a farmer.
So see, all this kind of relates, it kind of all coincides with the long timescale happening here, and it all makes pretty good sense.
Any comments on that?
I think it's an excellent observation, Matthew.
I personally am not familiar with the term catapult, so I really cannot address that in any meaningful way.
Nor am I. Wildcard Line, Lawrence in Billings, Montana.
Good evening, gentlemen.
It's an honor to speak to you, Mr. Bell.
Thank you.
Thank you for taking my call.
I had a near-death experience I'd like to relate, and then a question.
Mm-hmm.
I was admitted to the hospital emergency room.
First, I went in a couple weeks earlier with a slight headache, and they put me on the CAT scanner.
They said I had glioblastoma multiforme in 30 days to live.
Ah, okay.
How distressing is that?
Then, they did an MRI, and they found out, oops, Are we bad?
It's not cancer.
It's just an abscess.
We can treat it with antibiotics, which they proceeded to do, and it did no good.
And a week later, I fell into a coma.
I was rushed to the ER.
They had to do an emergency right-side craniotomy to remove a mass about the size of a small softball that had stopped the flow of blood to my brain and basically killed me for five minutes.
I remember the experience quite lucidly.
There was no light.
It was pitch black.
I was suspended above this gray plane that stretched off into the distance in infinity.
And the weirdest thing about the whole experience was, I remembered being there before.
At the time, I was totally relaxed and happy to be there, total joy and elation to be back home.
I don't know why I felt that way, because before and after the experience, I don't have any recollection of ever being there before.
But when I was there, I was right at home.
I saw little multicolored packets of white running along the gray plane beneath my perspective, astral plane if you will, and they were running along the plane until they encountered a little ditch, and they'd go into this little trough, and the plane disappeared.
As soon as I crossed past that threshold, and I had the feeling of movement, it was a completely visual and emotional experience, all of a sudden I'm standing in an Earth-like environment, Blue skies, beautiful manicured lawns, trees, and I turn and look in another direction.
There stands my father and my best friend Lance, both who had died several years earlier.
And there appeared to be a white hologram.
And they were both smiling at me as if to say, welcome to the other side, son.
They were smiling because those dirty turkeys knew I had to come back, and when I woke up in the ICU, I was not a happy camper.
I thought, oh great, back for more pain and suffering, I see.
And I saw no light whatsoever, except for the multicolored packets that were going into a little trough, and I was wondering how the doctor would interpret that.
Interpret not seeing any light at all?
No, the little multicolored packets of light that were running along the plane and then dropped into the little ditch.
My interpretation, and I'm probably full of it, is that it was those unfortunate lifeforms that didn't get to make it across.
They were recycled.
They were put into what I call the cosmic sewer system to be reutilized again when another lifeform is animated.
I don't know.
Okay, well, why not?
Doctor, any comment?
Well, Lawrence, yours reminds me how each time I hear a different NDE experience, it is as fresh and rewarding as the time I heard the first one.
Personally, I do believe those light packets, as you described, were some type of spirits.
Beyond that, you know, it would just be conjecture, but I would certainly guess that they were spirits.
Well, he suggested they were in some sort of cosmic binge-o-ditch, running along, waiting to get recycled.
Well, I have actually heard descriptions of grey spirits that appeared confused, shuffling feet, that type of thing, in other NDEs, and that is certainly a possibility.
Wild card line, Ivan in Houston, Texas.
You're on with Dr. Bauman.
Hi.
The first card stole my thunder, but my brother told me this, kind of like a joke, a while back.
And it goes, this person asks God, what's a second to him?
And God responds, one million years.
Then the person asks God, what's a million dollars to you?
And God goes, one cent.
Then the person asks God for $1,000,000 and God answers them in one second.
And yeah, that was my joke.
Right.
Heard it a long time ago, but still good.
Yeah.
That's it?
Yeah, that's it.
Well, yeah, the first car stole my thunder, so that's about it.
It makes you think, doesn't it?
Yeah, it does.
Okay.
Alright, well it does, and the whole concept of a longer time frame certainly fits in with this whole creation-evolution business, and I've always thought, Doctor, that The fact that evolution is real and all this time really has passed does not preclude God's hand being still behind it all, right?
Absolutely.
I am in total agreement, Art.
Okay.
Let's go west of the Rockies to Garth in Seattle.
Hi, Art.
Hello, Dr. Bauman.
Hello.
Hi.
My question concerning light and Basically time slowing down, of course you get the speed of light and stopping altogether at the speed of light.
If you extrapolate on that, I think if you go faster than light, time would reverse itself.
So if you're getting older sub-light, you would get younger faster than light.
And maybe that's why the government maybe doesn't say anything about faster than light travel or vehicles capable of that.
I was wondering what you thought.
I'll use Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier as an analogy.
You can't travel at the speed of sound because your atoms will rattle apart.
But once you break it and get beyond it, then everything smooths out.
Yes, well actually physicists, the majority feel that it is impossible to go faster than the speed of light.
However, there are a few that believe that particles known as tachyons exist.
Which do travel faster than the speed of light.
So it really depends on which side of the line that you're on as to whether time reversal is possible.
Okay, well wouldn't that also apply to this spooky new world of quantum physics?
In other words, I've had it explained to me but still do not understand how two particles That certainly is a concept that neither I nor probably most physicists have worked out.
between them without there being communication between them and if there
is communication between them it's occurring at faster than light speed.
Correct. That certainly is a concept that neither I nor probably most
physicists have worked out. It seems to be the case that information and
that's the key it's information it's not a particle it's not a wave it's
information. Okay.
You could equate that with consciousness, I think.
But that seems to be a different element from matter, from energy.
Consciousness seems to be a separate concept altogether.
It does, but the implication still to me is that there has to be some kind of communication.
And that's through a medium we don't understand, but apparently faster than light.
I agree.
I think the point that I would like to make is that it's not a particle and it's not a wave that is actually going faster than light.
It seems to be knowledge or communication as you say it, and I think that perhaps is what consciousness is all about.
Okay, Joe in Los Angeles, wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Bauman.
Thank you very much for taking my call, Mr. Art Bell.
Sure.
I'm from East Los Angeles.
I want to talk about anti-matter.
What is it?
Black matter in the universe.
Dark matter, they call it.
And I want to talk about quarks.
Quarks, they also have an infinite ability.
Quarks.
And this issue of multi-dimensions that we somehow coexist, like there's ten of me and ten different other dimensions.
All acting itself out.
I don't know if that's true or not.
I don't know if there's hundreds of me acting out in multi-dimensions.
Maybe you could explain that to me.
All right.
Well, let's tackle that last one on multi-dimensions.
The others might be more suited for somebody else.
Doctor?
Well, I love the aspect about multi-dimensions because... I thought so.
You know, there's the problem with wave-particle duality that people familiar with quantum physics are familiar with, and there's a concept, or at least a theory, known as string theory, which addresses and basically brings together those two divergent concepts.
However, the two most prominent string theories, the one known as bosonic and the other known as the superstring, require a minimum of either 10 or 26 dimensions to exist.
Certainly not the simple four that we are so intimately familiar with.
So the existence of multiple dimensions is very possible, assuming that we are on the verge of proving the rationality of this new string theory, which is so prominent today.
Well, there are a lot of people arguing the strings here.
I want to give you a moment to kind of plug what you're doing.
You can't plug your new science fiction book yet, because it's not here.
But the latest, I guess, is the Akashic Light.
Is that correct?
It is, yes.
Thank you.
And that's available at Amazon.com, that sort of place?
It's available at any of the Internet websites.
Amazon is certainly the most popular and well-known.
Of the books that you have written, Doctor, if somebody were just starting, intrigued by what you've said tonight, and wants to understand what you've said tonight, which of your books would you buy?
I would recommend, actually, the Akashic Light.
By the time I wrote my third book, I think I had more adeptly been able to process complex terms into lay terms, so I think it is Probably the best book for lay people wishing to understand the elements of quantum physics.
And when might we expect your latest?
I'm a big science fiction fan.
Oh, you're very kind.
I absolutely have no idea.
My comfort level is so untenable that I may be struggling with it for some time.
All right.
Well, good luck with the struggle, Doctor.
Thank you for being here and have a good night.
It has been a pleasure to be on Coast to Coast.
Thank you, Art.
Take care, my friend.
And that's it for this night.
However, tomorrow night, Lynn McTigert will be here, and we'll be talking about, well, the force, actually.