Michael Sunanda challenges mainstream climate science, citing NASA’s alleged data suppression and his 3D compass detecting vertical magnetic waves, while linking solar-lunar cycles to volcanic heating—90% underwater—and chaotic ocean shifts like El Niño. He ties warfare to weather manipulation, from Buckminster Fuller’s Arctic Dew Lines to China’s 1950s chemical rain experiments, warning of catastrophic sea-level rises (20 feet) in cities like Bangkok and Mexico City. Solutions include permaculture, geodesic domes, and local energy audits, rejecting oil scarcity narratives as profit-driven. Art Bell’s 1995 triangular UFO sighting and callers’ paranormal encounters underscore broader questions about reality, science, and unseen forces shaping Earth’s future. [Automatically generated summary]
From the Southeast Asian capital city of the Philippines, made up of over 7,100 islands, Metro Manila.
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be.
Hi, everybody.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, all the way from Southeast Asia.
How are you doing?
It's great to be here, and it is my pleasure, indeed my honor, to be escorting you through your weekend.
It is, well, it's kind of time travel here where I am.
It's a little bit after one o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday.
Now, we're going to talk about a whole lot of things tonight.
We're going to have a very interesting weekend.
Mr. Sanada, I believe it's Sanada, is here.
He'll be here in the next hour, and he'll talk about global warming and a lot of other things.
But this hour will sort of leave it, I don't know, open to talk about anything you want to talk about.
There is a photograph on the website that I want you to take a look at.
I think it's a beautiful photograph, and it has quite an explanation to go with it.
What you'll see in the picture would be my wife, Erin, and some very beautiful.
She's holding, by the way, Abby Dose, and the flowers that you're going to see are really the story.
I was going to take a picture of myself for you, but I thought it would be kind of inappropriate to have me with flowers, even though they were sent to me and they came from Bob Bigelow.
You know Robert Bigelow, right?
So I'll explain why the flowers, if you don't already know, in a few moments.
Just let me cover a couple of other things, questions that, you know, I literally get thousands of these questions, so I thought I would begin with a couple.
Dear Mr. Bell, I have a question about a show which aired last Monday morning.
At the beginning of the show, you had mentioned a guest who was associated with SETI.
The guest was supposed to talk to you about proof of extraterrestrial signals that have recently been detected by SETI, and the public would soon be notified of this new information by SETI.
Unfortunately, your guest did not make it to the show for the interview because I believe his car broke down.
I wrote to the SETI Institute regarding this information, and I received a reply.
And SETI, of course, says, no, no, it has not detected an extraterrestrial signal.
If anyone had, it would be made known to the public in accordance with the, quote, Declaration of Principles concerning the activities following the detection of extraterrestrial intelligence.
And they go on a little bit.
Now, of course, we really don't know yet, do we?
It has been long my opinion, despite a number of very earnest interviews that we've had with Seth Shostak and others at SETI, that they probably wouldn't tell us.
And I know Seth certainly would disagree with that very strongly, but that is my opinion.
Anyway, here is what Dr. Greer had to say.
And the reason I'm repeating this is, one, because it is so shocking.
And two, because Dr. Greer is indeed scheduled to be on the program tomorrow evening.
Hopefully, the automobile will get him to where he needs to go.
Anyway, here is the, I guess I'd better say alleged quote, quote, quote, quoting Dr. Greer here, we have confirmation, and I'm not going to give the name yet because we're trying to coax this guy out of the closet, but one of the senior people in the SETI project, which is indeed the Carl Sagan Search for Extraterrestrial Project, has confirmed to the disclosure project that they have received multiple extraterrestrial signals, end quote, of Stephen Greer.
Continuing, quote, but that now, but they're now, they say, getting external human, probably NRO or NSA, jamming of those signals, and they're getting very frustrated.
Greer continued, quote, the question is, why hasn't the SETI project, funded by Paul Allen and co-founder of Microsoft, come forward with this information?
Now, I'm a little uncomfortable even mentioning this, except for the fact the public needs to know that this effort, which has indeed received a great deal of mainstream media attention, is actually confirmed to us from two inside sources that they have received extraterrestrial signals and have confirmed them as being extraterrestrial and that they have become increasing in frequency and number.
Dr. Greer, of course, is head of the Disclosure Project, a nonprofit organization with almost now 500 former military intelligence and government employees who will go on record about their various experiences with aliens and alien technology.
Now, once again, tomorrow night, I do once again have Dr. Greer scheduled on the program, and I certainly hope he can make it.
Now, a couple of listeners.
Hi, Art.
Wanted to say that I've really enjoyed listening to you and George on Coast to Coast.
I'm also planning on returning to the Philippines.
My wife is from Manila, but she has family in Cebu, and that is where we're now looking for a place to buy.
We don't plan on retiring for yet another 10 years or so, but we want to start looking for a place.
Can you tell me what island and or city you decided on?
Well, of course, Manila.
And also, can you offer any advice on the kind of visa to get?
Yes, I can.
And this, my brother-in-law and I are both from Texas.
We're married to Filipinas, sisters.
He is a retired orthodontist now living in Baguio City.
That's a city pretty close by that's very cool and nice.
And with his wife, Emily, I'm soon to retire and have considered trying to retire near him.
My concern is health care in the Philippines.
Can somebody with type 2 diabetes get good care in the Philippines?
I'm also concerned about the safety or practicality of traveling with our 12-pound silky terrier dog.
Heard you traveling with your cats.
Could you give me any opinions?
Yes, on all of that, I certainly can.
The health care here is superb.
In fact, the Philippines exports many, many, many nurses and doctors.
As I think most of you must know, there are many Filipinos out there in the healthcare system.
It's an excellent health care system here.
And, well, I'll give you an example.
This last week, I had, don't let this shock you because it's no big deal.
I had a little spot under my right eye, which turns out to be, what did they call it?
I'm trying to think of the name of it.
I believe it's, anyway, it's some kind of carcinoma, it's some kind of cancer, but not a bad one.
Can't remember the name of it.
Whatever it is.
Anyway, they removed it, and I think it came to about 2,000 pesos.
Now, you can do the math.
Pesos converting to dollars would be about 52 pesos to each dollar.
So the entire operation that lasted about an hour, and by the way, it didn't hurt a bit.
They gave me the appropriate anesthetic, and all was well.
And the little devil popped right out, and it's gone, and they got all of it, and goodbye, and good riddance, and all of that.
But it was about 2,000 pesos, which is, believe me, for an hour operation and follow-up, not very much.
So the cost of healthcare here is just a fraction of what it is in the United States.
The cost of other things also is just, I would estimate, 25 or 30%.
The cost of just about everything is 25 or 30% what it is in the U.S. So I'm going to get a lot of questions like this.
At any rate, traveling with your animals, no problem.
There is, if you do the appropriate work ahead of time, there is no wait, there's no quarantine for your animals, so they can come right in with you if you so desire.
And the living here, once again, let's say it again, is absolutely spectacular.
The people are friendly.
It's a wonderful place to live.
I know there are, when you look on the web, you will find various State Department warnings and that sort of thing.
It's all very overblown.
There are some problems on the southern island of Mindanao, but not where I am here, and not, indeed, in most of the Philippines.
So most of that is very overdone.
But if you read the warnings about kidnappings and all the rest, you're going to be very concerned.
I can just tell you that from my point of view, it's very safe.
Never had a problem.
Don't expect a problem.
In a moment, we'll come back and look at the rest of the day's news.
The End Well, you can always thank the people in the audience, no question about that.
Peter in Grants Pass, Oregon said, all right, that's a basal cell carcinoma, a skin cancer of the basal cell of the skin.
Good to catch it early.
Yes, I thought so, too.
Actually, it had been there for about five or six years.
And before I left the U.S., my doctor said, oh, how did I miss that?
And he said, you should get that taken out when you get there.
And so I did.
No big deal.
2,000 pesos.
Now, on to the world news.
Let's see what's going on in the world.
Israel pulls out of Hezbollah's stronghold.
I've been watching this every minute on Fox News over here.
Israeli troops pulled back from a Lebanese border town Saturday after a week of heavy fighting with Hezbollah guerrillas, who hailed the retreat as a victory.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice returned to the Middle East to push a refined U.S. peace plan.
The Israeli pullback from that town appeared to be in preparation for, so not so fast here, folks, a new incursion along rather a different part of the border zone.
Hours later, troops and tanks massed farther to the east on the Israeli side of the frontier.
So it goes on and on and keeps escalating.
And I, like many of you, I'm very, very concerned about this.
I don't know that I agree with Newt Gingrich, who talked about World War III, but it is certainly very concerning.
More than 60% of the U.S. in drought.
Now, this is the second associated press news story of the hour.
Listen to this.
More than 60% of our United States has abnormally dry or drought conditions stretching all the way from Georgia to Arizona and then across north through the Dakotas, Minnesota, Montana, Wisconsin.
A climatologist for the National Drought Center at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln said all this, an area stretching from south central North Dakota to central South Dakota is the most drought-stricken region in the nation.
The U.S. command announced Saturday that it was sending 3,700 more troops to Baghdad to try and quell the sectarian violence sweeping the capital there.
And a U.S. official said more American soldiers will follow as the military gears up to take the streets back from the gunmen.
The 172nd Striker Brigade, which had been due to return home after a year in Iraq, will bring quick-moving light armored vehicles to patrol this sprawling city of about 6 million.
So good luck to our troops.
The world's fastest man alive has apparently tested positive for something not good.
Another American champion hit with a shocking positive drug test on Saturday.
Olympic and World 100-meter champion Justin Gatlin.
Gatlin said he's been informed that he tested positive for testosterone or some other prohibited steroids.
Not good.
Associated Press says Robert Charles Brown's claims that he killed 49 people have now generated so many telephone calls that the police have stopped keeping count.
People want to know if it could possibly be one of their relatives.
At any rate, he has confessed now to killing 49.
Can you imagine that?
Mel Gibson has apologized for a DUI arrest as well as apparently some disappointing comments he made to the officers who were making that arrest.
Now, Robert Bigelow.
Robert Bigelow is a longtime friend of mine in Las Vegas.
As you know, he's been a friend for, I guess you know, he's been a friend for a very long time.
Robert Bigelow reminds me of the, you remember the man in the movie Contact, the one who was up in the Russian space station?
Robert has always reminded me of that man.
And of course, Robert began Bigelow Aerospace.
His comment to me one time was that, you know, aerospace art is the best way to take a billionaire and turn him into a millionaire.
And of course, Robert is a billionaire.
At any rate, buddy, congratulations.
Now, the webcam picture that you see up there, those flowers are from Robert Bigelow.
And what a shock.
I got a call from downstairs.
We generally get a phone call here when something's going on.
And I got a call, and they said, are you expecting flowers, sir?
And I said, no, I'm really not.
Nevertheless, up they came and the card said it was from Robert Bigelow.
And he said, oh, by the way, Art, we're flying.
Well, I did some quick research, and that certainly is an understatement.
Bigelow Aerospace of Las Vegas is making a bet against which the gaming tables in the very same city pale into insignificance.
It aims to offer tourist accommodations in orbit, in space, using a Denver booster from ISC Cosmetronics, the Cosmotros, rather, the company has just launched its Genesis 1 module.
Bigelow's plan is to invest about $75 million in creating expendable space habitats.
It's backed by Robert Bigelow, founder of Budget Suites of America.
Thus far, it appears the launch was indeed successful.
The spacecraft is in communication with ground controllers.
Genesis 1 is to be injected into orbit around Earth.
Bigelow has created Aerospace Mission Control Center near Las Vegas for this and future launches.
As a matter of fact, Robert invited me before I left for the Philippines.
He gave me a call one afternoon and said, hey, Art, how about if I send a helicopter over the hill to pick you up and show you what I'm about to do?
Well, at that point, I was very busy running around going to embassies and trying to get things straightened out.
And so I didn't have time to hop in a helicopter and go see Robert, but I guess I should have.
According to Space.com, once stable orbit has been reached, mission controllers are then going to test to determine if all the onboard systems are working correctly.
Genesis 1 is intended to remain in orbit for years.
It is a critical tool for the company to test how such habitats can survive the challenges of a space environment.
Now, that, of course, includes space debris, often flying at missile-like speeds, solar radiation, far more intense than anything experienced here on Earth.
The expandable module was tested extensively here on Earth prior to launch, but it needs to survive the acid test of space before human habitation can be seriously contemplated.
The expandable habitat is made largely of soft shell materials, a very important design innovation.
Such materials apparently can be configured and reconfigured with more flexibility than traditional spacecraft bodies and weigh considerably less.
Weight, of course, a major consideration in any launch cost.
You know, they do a launch per pound evaluation, and the launch costs are by far the greatest factor in space construction and project costs.
So the flowers that you see in the foreground, I believe, with Aaron and Abydos are indeed those from Robert Bigelow, and it dawned on me suddenly that my friend has indeed achieved the first private space launch in history.
That is no minor accomplishment.
And Bob, if you're listening, hey, buddy, how about coming on next week for at least an hour and telling me about this?
You totally blew me away with the flowers.
And of course, your accomplishment.
I couldn't figure out why Robert would send flowers.
But there you have it.
So congratulations, Bob Bigelow.
And eventually, of course, this is going to turn into a tourist ability for many of you to go into space.
For those of you who might not have had the opportunity otherwise, it'll be quite reasonable, ultimately.
I think in the area of perhaps $100,000 per subject, ultimately.
2006 is setting another not very good record.
Apparently, 2006 now sets the heat record.
The first six months of this year were the warmest on average since the U.S. began keeping records in 1895, and global warming is a contributing factor, according to a U.S. climate expert.
July, August, and September are indeed forecast to continue the hot trend over most of the U.S., including the vast area of the country west of the Mississippi River, as well as New England, Florida, and southern Alaska.
Only Hawaii is expected to have below average temperatures, according to the U.S. Climate Prediction Center.
So the good news on our climate, ha ha, continues.
Deep in the heart of the world's greatest rainforest, a nine-day journey by boat from the sea, Octovio Costello is anxiously watching the soft waters of the Amazon drain away.
Every day they recede further, like water running slowly out of an immense bathtub, threatening a worldwide catastrophe.
In fact, the headline is a disaster to take everybody's breath away.
And of course, they mean that quite literally, because, as you know, the Amazon accounts for a very great deal of the breathable oxygen that we have on Earth.
It's a sign that severe drought is returning to the Amazon for yet a second consecutive year.
And that would be very ominous, according to this story, because new research is suggesting that one more dry year could tip the entire vast forest into a cycle of destruction.
The day before, top scientists delivered much the same message at a remarkable floating symposium on a river on the strange black waters Beside which the capital of the Amazon stands.
They told a meeting convened on a flotilla of boats by ecumenical patriarch Bartholomew, I believe it is.
The Greek Orthodox Church dubbed the Green Pope.
They call him the Green Pope for his environmental activism.
The global warming and deforestation were pushing the entire enormous area towards a, quote, tipping point where it would begin to die.
The consequences, of course, would be awesome.
The Amazon basin would turn to get this a dry savannah at best and desert at worst.
This would cause much of the world to become hotter, yet hotter, and drier.
How much more of that can we really take?
In the long term, it could send global warming out of control, eventually making the world, their word, folks, not mine, uninhabitable.
So it's a strange world that we face these days, and we're all moving through it together, whether you're in Southeast Asia, as I am right now, or somewhere in the U.S. or Canada or any of the wide area of listening audience that we've got.
A lot of geography out there, folks.
Okay, from Southeast Asia, Manila in the Philippines, I'm Mart Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
Want to take a ride?
Oh, baby, you're on a ride.
We all are.
We'll go to open lines here in a moment, so if you have some questions or comments, you're welcome to make them.
Grab the phone, dial one of those numbers.
How far Chinese scientists will advance in deep space is not immediately known, but one thing is certain now.
They are, they say, they're going to conduct an exploration of Mars besides their ongoing lunar mission.
In the coming years, China will, on the basis of its moon probes, plan deep space exploration, focusing on lunar and Martian exploration.
Sun's remarks at the 36th Scientific Assembly Committee on Space Research in Beijing appear to be the first time a Chinese official has announced that the nation's space program would include Martian probes.
What do you suppose the Chinese are going to do on Mars?
Oh, here's something else the Chinese are doing.
The first plasma discharge from China's Experimental Advanced Superconducting Research Center, the so-called artificial sun, is set to occur next month.
The discharge, the discharge, expected about August 15th, will be conducted at Science Island in Hefei, in East China's Ashu province.
According to the People's Daily, scientists told the newspaper a successful test is going to mean the world's first nuclear fusion device of its kind is going to be ready to go into actual operation.
That's a little worrisome.
The plasma discharge will draw international attention since some scientists are concerned with risks involved in such a process.
But Chinese researchers involved in the project say any radiation, they say, will cease once the test is completed.
In a moment, we'll take some calls from all of you.
Well, all right, as promised, let's open the lines and talk to all of you and see what's going on out there.
I'm very likely going to be on ultimately from the Philippines.
Tom, I have all of my ham gear sitting right next to me at this very moment.
I've got the room arranged very much the way I did in the high desert with one section devoted to computers, one section devoted to broadcast, and one section devoted to ham radio.
And as soon as the time comes, and I hope that's pretty soon, I'm going to get some antennas up.
I'm very near the top floor here.
Probably a vertical, Tom.
That'll be the best bet to work back toward the States.
unidentified
Absolutely.
And 20-meter-long path.
I'm sure the ham radio operators listening understand that.
That's probably a very good time later in the year.
Well, I just wondered, because you had used that name a few times, and I thought maybe you had a cat as crazy and enjoyable as some of the ones that I've had.
But I'll tell you, I remember the night that you told us about losing Abby, and I was outside like I like to watch or listen to Coast to Coast watching the stars.
And I'll tell you, those tears melted that sky for me, too, because I really love cats.
And I wanted to ask you about cats as onboards.
I have had basically clans of cats from rescues and friends of mine that we've observed this.
And at first they thought I was whacked.
But I said, you know, look at this cat.
It's picked up some traits of our cat that we just lost that it never exhibited before, ever.
And it didn't happen just once, Art.
It's probably happened about 15 times noticeably, sometimes more subtle than others.
But there's been no doubt in my mind that like a passenger getting in the car, there's the driver spirit, and then there's the onboard spirit that seems to say, oh, turn left here, or whatever that specific trait that's so unique to the cat that passed.
All right, well, look, first of all, I know exactly what you're talking about.
The moment you get a new cat and you name it for the old one, you begin to see characteristics of the old one.
Now, either A, that may be true, and there may be some kind of cross-spirit movement, or B, and probably more likely, it's something that we as human beings do ourselves.
In other words, our own brain looks for similarities.
We are staggered by the loss that we feel.
And so we look for similarities, and we immediately, our brain immediately makes that attachment.
Our brains do that.
They try to make sense out of the inscrutable.
Our brains reach out and try to make sense out of things that we don't understand.
So when we see a similarity, we want to see a similarity.
We want to believe that that terrible loss we just went through has something to do with that cat.
And so I'm not sure which it is.
It could be one of either one.
I think most likely the latter, though.
I hate to be that way, but I suspect that's true.
Or maybe there is a little bit of what you lost that has come back.
And maybe it has more to do with you than anything heaven does.
I have been listening to you for at least eight years, and this is the first time that I have felt absolutely compelled to call you.
And I'm hoping when I finish telling you this short story that you might tell me if you've ever heard of anything like this or possibly your listeners could offer an opinion.
Okay.
My husband and I have been married for a few months.
We lived together for several years.
And his grandfather, my husband's grandfather, used to be a PR man for Sears Roebuck, which meant that he did a celebrity circuit, went to celebrity charities and live suck shows and things like that.
We have a studio photograph of his grandfather sitting with Roy Rogers and Gabby Hayes.
And in that photograph, my husband's grandfather has his wedding ring very prominently displayed on his hand, the same wedding ring that my husband now wears.
And we have remarked on it several times and shown just about everyone that's come through the house this photograph and made the remark that it's the same ring that my husband wears.
Today, whenever I looked at that photograph, the ring is no longer on that man's finger.
I'll think about it, but I certainly don't have an answer for it.
Here's what I guess I might suggest.
And it's an awful big jump from what little she just told me, but occasionally there are little jumps in time.
And occasionally things occur that, well, for example, this audience remembered, and this is just a sort of a loose parallel, but you may recall that we had this big brouhaha about the death of Nelson Mandela.
Do you recall that?
A lot of people in the audience, I was one of the first, thought that Nelson Mandela had died, that Nelson Mandela had not indeed gone on to become the leader of South Africa for a period of time, but he instead had died.
And many, many, many people had that memory, inaccurate as it may have been in this timeline.
That in this timeline.
Anyway, obviously, that is an inaccurate memory as we now know it.
However, a lot of people had it.
So it may be that occasionally there are these little changes in time in some way, some little change, something that occurs that causes to be what was, that is to say, to be, not to be now.
So that's the very best I can do, and that's pretty poor.
Well, you're through now, so what is it you wanted to say?
unidentified
Yeah, I just wanted to let you and your audience know that in the Pine Barrens in New Jersey, there may be an ancient civilization called the Askins, A-Z-K-I-N-S.
And they may be 1,000 years old.
And if you dig up the artifacts, you may find communities, skyscrapers, and cars.
I don't know about the Askins, but many people postulate that man has been here on Earth before, that we have built cities, we have built civilizations, we have built all kinds of things, including, as he just mentioned, skyscrapers and what we would regard as reasonably modern buildings.
And all of this many times has come and gone in catastrophic events of various sorts that have been visited upon the Earth in some sort of cyclic fashion, and that could well be.
There's also, by the way, a publication called, since we've had a couple of New Jersey calls now, it's called Weird New Jersey.
It's quite good, and New Jersey just doesn't seem like a place for the weird, but I can assure you, it is, in fact, pretty weird.
Let's go, I guess, east of the Rockies and say hi.
Well, what I said was I'd received a lot of email from people who said suddenly they're not seeing the kind or the numbers of chemtrails that we obviously at one time had.
unidentified
Not here in Cincinnati.
On the weekends, there's the most activity, especially the highest peak activity is on, before, and after holidays.
I don't know either, sir, but there is something to this chemtrail business.
I'm not convinced that it's as much as we think it is.
I'm sure that a lot of what we're calling chemtrails are actually simply contrails, the normal contrail that are protracted due to perhaps weather changes that we're undergoing.
But there really is something to chemtrails, on the other hand.
I've had guest after guest who has delineated for us what these chemtrails, at least in part, are comprised of things like aluminum and other things that you just simply would not expect to be in a contrail.
And I'd like to talk about how, if you've ever thought about Star Wars, if you've ever seen Star Wars Episode 3, actually the whole story of the way the Emperor Pralpstein came to power.
And do you see any correlation with that, with maybe a secret message that Lord George Lucas might have, saying that maybe we as human beings are going down the same road with giving all the powers to George Bush, not just him, of course, he's just a, I think...
I'm down that road right now.
What do you think of David Ike as well as the Star Wars?
And on that note, which could have used expansion if I'd had the time, we're going to close, come back with Michael Sonata.
And he's going to talk about global warming.
That's well overdue.
So I'm looking forward to that.
That's coming up next.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
From Manila in the Philippines, I am indeed Art Bell.
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be worldwide.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
And we're going to talk about one of my favorite subjects tonight.
Michael Sananda has built and designed hundreds of geodesic dome models and teaching toys.
He found the secret Da Vinci geometry codes in his artwork based on spirals in nature and platonic polyhedrons.
Michael's teachers about natural energy designs are Fuller, Reich, Steiner, Lukowski, Dan Winter James McCanney on weather, also a community CETA worker during the Carter energy crisis of the 70s.
He is a teacher of permaculture and Gaia ecology about the whole energy patterns of Earth weather, climate systems, and natural fractal geometry and organic life.
Wow.
He is very inspired by the peak oil situation, global warming, and the climate crisis, movement since the coming global superstorm book, my book, as well as Whitley's.
Echoplasms of 99, especially Al Gore's new movie and book on global warming, The Long Emergency, a book on peak oil crisis coming faster than ever now, he says.
The possibilities are infinite now, how to reverse our polluting habits into local energy awareness, conservation, and cooperating, more natural, healthy, and balancing our lives in peace.
That's quite an introduction.
So coming up in a moment on the subject of global warming, and apparently a lot more, is Michael Sananda.
I hope that I'm pronouncing that correctly.
We'll be right back.
By the way, right in the middle of the rainy season here in the Philippines, it's coming down pretty well out there right now, and it has been every day.
Every day we get rain.
And I guess that's why they call it the rainy season.
I'm based on energy because all the elements are working, and that's where I started learning that in the early 70s with Buckminster Fuller and nature and meditating and learning about the things that I had missed when I was in college and school before growing up and all.
And well, you mentioned that you listened carefully to Richard Hoagland, and he talks about not just our planet, but all of the planets in our system apparently warming up.
I'm normally very much on your side of the argument.
And I've certainly read story after story after story.
Scientists believe this, or did previously believe this, and now have found the following to be true.
And inevitably, it's a story about global heating or pollution or dead areas of the ocean or God knows what.
It's been awful lately.
But I'm going to give you, I want you to just sit back and listen to this.
It's kind of the other side of the story, and I want you to respond to it, Michael.
Here it is.
Art, in response to your Saturday, July 22nd talk in the first hour about global weather changes and how the Earth is its warmest in 400 years, chew on this for a minute.
The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years, plus or minus about 1%.
With that perspective, this means that 400 years is equivalent to decimal 000000099% of its total current lifespan.
There are 2.65 billion seconds in a 75-year-old lifespan.
That's interesting, 2.65 billion seconds.
So some simple math equates this 400-year span to about 262.5 seconds or about 4.5 minutes of an average American's lifespan.
Can you imagine complaining that it's the hottest it's been in the last 4.5 minutes?
An analogy, you just got hired for a job, and 4.5 minutes after you got there, someone says, hey, you've started the untimely demise of the company.
I apologize, Art, but this kind of thinking really needs to be revisited and put in the perspective of scientific reality.
In other words, he's saying, if you look at the entire lifespan of our globe, when we say it's the hottest it's been in the last whatever, we're talking about four and a half minutes of the Earth's time.
And what it is, is taking things and dividing and dividing and dividing and dividing so that one is basically has written, is ignored.
That argument there is all based on the abstract divisions of time, ignoring the patterns of nature.
The literal, the trees, the wind, the undersea volcanoes, all these patterns we're going to talk about tonight that are in nature that are not precisely measured, and some are, are ignored by that kind of argument.
Now, the person probably lives indoors in an air-conditioned room and gets to think about those things.
And they're free to do that.
It's America, you know, or anywhere on Earth.
You can think about these things and rationalize that we are stupid because we believe in global warming or peak oil or climate crisis.
Well, he's probably separated from nature.
Maybe he goes on vacation and goes camping or something into the mountains.
And I don't believe, actually, in the ages that Darwin started proposing in the 4 billion.
I don't believe that.
What I believe more is the data that's coming out of the nature itself, the ice core samples, the drilling, the forbidden archaeology where you go down layers hundreds of feet down and seeing what the strata are.
I've been observing strata in nature for 10 years.
Well, actually, I've been observing them since the 50s, but I've been understanding and seeking understanding of the strata of the layers that I see when I'm out traveling.
I've traveled to a dozen countries and taken measurements in these various places and seen a lot of these patterns.
Okay, well, if you take the model of the Earth as a vortex and the magnetic waves going out of the South Pole, around the Earth, away out into space, hundreds, possibly thousands of miles out into space, and into the North Pole.
And if you look like at that one of those graphics that I put up, you folks put up on the web for us, it shows the magnetic field of the Earth and how it doesn't show the direction.
But other books, and I've been, actually I took a lot of physics in high school and college.
So I know, I do as an aviation major in high school, so I studied this, but it wasn't holistic.
So we're going into holistic now.
So the waves go south to north.
That means they go out of the South Pole and into the North Pole.
Okay, then are you suggesting that the magnetic energy is sort of curved, that it comes out and then up and then over and then to the north pole, that it's kind of curved?
If what you suggest is occurring, and 90% of it is below the surface of the ocean, then this should be able to be measured by satellites.
For example, ocean temperatures should indicate this is going on.
And on your side of the argument, I've had Stan Dale on the program a number of times, and he has been saying for some years now that he's seeing measurements, heat measurements in the ocean that are completely anomalous.
And he's detailed them, that certain spots of the ocean are getting hotter and hotter and hotter.
Michael, hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour here, and we'll be right back.
I want to talk to Michael more about this because Standeo did kind of confirm a lot of what Michael's saying.
And, of course, he is echoing also what Richard C. Hoagland has said many, many times on this program, that not just our Earth, but all of the planets in our system are beginning to unaccountably, or perhaps not so unaccountably, if you understand it.
I'm sure he would say that it's got something to do with 19.5 and all the rest of that.
But the fact is, things are getting warmer.
I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
It is.
My guest is Michael Sunanda, and he's here talking about global warming and a lot more.
And, you know, it's all very interesting, this information that some of it may be coming from our own globe, or it may be the sun, or perhaps even comets affecting the sun that then acts on our own earth in some manner to cause all of this.
But there is a lot going on below the ocean.
We ought to get hold of some people on that exact subject, and we will, as well as Michael.
Michael's got a lot to tell us tonight.
More of it in a moment.
I want to be very careful here to separate the science From the metaphysical, and I understand that we're mixing them, and we're going to do that a little bit in the show, but I want to sort of call attention to when we're in the science part of it and when we're in the metaphysical part of it.
When you say, Michael, that the sun is radiating a lot more energy, or many times the energy, that it was previously, that kind of puts me on red alert here because I don't know that that's measured.
What I do know, Michael, is the following.
I'm a ham radio operator, and I watched the sun cycles, and the sun cycles since about 1958 or so, Michael, have actually been on a decline.
They've been going down in terms of the amount of energy for each 11-year cycle.
Now, that said, we just hit a low, Michael, a real serious low in the number of sunspots and sun activity visibly, measurably, going on.
However, in the last, oh, I don't know, several months, scientists have begun to write that we're in for one of the biggest sun cycles we've ever had, we've ever measured.
In other words, a real whopper is on the way.
So how does that stack up with your statement that we're getting a lot more energy from the sun?
Well, so what I'm kind of going on intuition at on this part of the invisible spectrum that's coming through and the gap of information that we're getting from NASA.
I believe that NASA is a PR campaign and that 90% of the information that they deal with is industrial and military and that we just don't know it and they won't Tell us.
It's been well known, actually, all the way back into the empires forever that they hide the most essential information because they call it a security, that's the current name, is a security risk.
When other people, that is the so-called enemies, or even the public now, could find out about designs, and Fuller was clear about this, the designs that the industry and the military do, weapons, they would say security, weapons designs, the radiation spectrum is their way.
That's what sonar is and radar and lasers and all of those things are radiation.
And the sun's radiation, the amount of radiation coming from the sun, okay, they started putting solar panels in outer space in the 50s and 60s.
So there's a way of harvesting that.
And there's so many arguments.
And I mean, I really trust a lot of what McKinney is saying about the plasma.
But to me, plasma is the entire electromagnetic spectrum on all levels.
And so I'm kind of intuitively, now, okay, you were saying about sunspot cycles going down.
And I have been watching those relate to the moon, the moon cycles.
And I'm kind of a lunatic.
I do watch the moon, and I watch the moon cycles and how they relate to the sun and the planets and the earth energy and the rains and the weather and so on.
So I'm just learning how these things are connected.
I'm not saying that there's an absolute cause and effect.
It's very interesting to connect these patterns.
For example, if it's true that the volcanoes are heating up the seas and the science is starting to prove it, then this could have been going on for decades that they wouldn't tell us.
For example, the Navy has been tracking.
This goes on for even aliens and UFOs.
The Air Force and the Navy both know the Navy on the sea bottom.
They know what they've tracked the entire sea bottom.
The Navy has.
I mean, they have, they've been doing, that's part of what they do, these deep sea things with the atomic submarines and submersibles and stuff.
They're tracking the sea bottoms.
And there are now books on this.
Well, there's not many books, there's not much published on the volcanoes going on under the sea.
Kind of a scientific interest to know, like, certain fault lines and so on.
But the amount of them, and you're right, they probably can track volcanoes under the sea with satellites.
And again, we've had guests that have measured increasing ocean temperatures and what are called hot spots, and from that predict weather patterns and all the rest of it.
Because, of course, as goes the ocean, so goes our weather.
It depends on which dimension you're talking about.
Now, I'm here in western Oregon.
Let's just say that there's a fairly steady flow from the ocean east, and that the patterns go all the way across the United States and east.
But within that fairly consistent isn't even the right word, it does change everywhere and almost constantly change.
It doesn't change as much at night as it does in the day.
But, you know, it does constantly change.
So in permaculture, we call it a microclimate or a bioregion.
That is your bioregion, your valley.
I'm in a valley here.
The next valley over is going to be different.
So you're right, it is chaotic.
You're right.
Weather is chaotic.
Well, that means that it's not very predictable.
But I think part of why they can only predict three days or seven days at the most, and they have all this infinite knowledge from satellites and everything, is they just won't tell us.
And the satellite, the guys who run the satellites, won't tell the weathermen, The people who print the things in the paper and the radio and the news, the weather people.
Of course, from satellite, you can see weather patterns that are moving, Michael, and you can, from that information, concoct a forecast.
But you're suggesting that the people who are operating and analyzing the satellite information, understand that it means a very great deal more than the weatherman interprets it to mean.
Yeah, and it's part of the, it's been known back in the Empire Wars, Genghis Khan, you know, you go all the way back there, that weather is very key to wars.
Even the American Revolutionary War.
And it was quite key at that time, too.
Weather is key to war.
And anytime you think about that, you've got three or four militaries in the United States, huge militaries, each one gigantic, and they don't share much with each other.
You seemed to be suggesting, when you made the original statement, that weather, other than logistically and for battlefield planning, that weather actually has an effect on war or is a causative factor for war.
And I don't believe in the one-cause theory and thinking ever.
I believe it's always multiple causes.
So weather is one factor.
Buckminster Fuller, who is my first teacher, and he learned about the World War game room, which they would put, you know, they call it the wall, the war board on the wall, this giant, huge map that's, you know, 50 feet across of war.
And now the terrain is another thing.
The water flow, this is all very permaculture also, like how you build a sustainable culture.
That where the water flows, how deep it flows, how pure it is.
For example, if you were doing an attack, you wanted to cut off the water supply for the enemy.
You wouldn't have to even attack the enemy.
You could just cut off their water supply.
When they used to attack castles, that's what they would do.
They would cut off their water supply.
The water, the air, the fire, and the earth, which are the four primal elements, are essential for life processes, for everything.
See, the thing about a lot of what they say they're going to do, I've been tracking predictions ever since I was into Fuller in the 70s.
He died in 83.
And he was also an empirist.
In other words, his geodesic domes were used in the military first in the 50s in the Dew Lines up in the Arctic Circle.
And you'll still see radar in geodesic domes.
They were the first ones to use his domes in the industry in America.
And then in the 60s, he became a peace person.
He started spilling his guts and telling how nature works and how domes are part of the crystalline geometry of nature.
And geodesic domes go all the way back to Da Vinci and the Greeks and that geometry.
So it all connects.
And the war game, the whole big war thing, he was one of the insiders who was running the U.S. accounting system, which was the accounting of all the resources of energy going through the United States and through the military and into Europe.
And the Germans were into this big time, but they were really crazy.
And the Americans were able to perfect it a little bit more.
So now Fuller took it and brought it into a thing called World Game, which is peace gaming about energy flows.
So what we're doing is we're tracking the energy flows, economic, transportation, food, water, air, weather, everything.
We're tracking these relative to a given system, like, say, Florida.
Influencing the weather back started in the 40s that I'm aware of.
And I know one of my teachers, Wilhelm Reich, was doing that in the 40s, and he started perfecting it in the 50s, and they arrested him and killed him.
Well, it's hard to know without any proof, but I've just got a really news report from China that they have been shooting cannons, military anti-aircraft cannons, you know, not land cannons, but with chemicals.
I agree, but I think that the rate of it and the direction, now, there's something that when they say that the sea goes up millimeters and inches and so on, the scientists do and they measure it, they're measuring it in an area.
And I don't believe in averages.
So if you were saying 20 feet, I would have to ask a few questions before we could even get down to it, like where, how fast, what's the temperature, what's the currents, are the currents consistent or are they going chaotic like the Gulf Stream chaos that occurs in some of the currents, the El Niño?
In other words, the islands are sinking in the South Seas.
Yeah, and the waters have been going up feet, not inches, there.
And it's particularly in the high tides.
And it ruins the agriculture that's in lowlands because the salt water comes in under the water table and it ruins it.
So there's chaos in this water rising frontier around the world, particularly in the southern hemisphere near the Antarctica, or the southern circle, the Arctic Circle there, and in the north, in the north, Alaska, in Siberia.
We don't hear reports on Siberia because we don't get news from Russia.
But it's been known for at least 10 years, maybe even 20 years, that on the northern shore of Alaska, villages have been getting swamped.
And it's just a matter of where, you know, the relative amount of causation.
Cause and effect has not been a popular theory in the West.
They would call it stimulus and response.
They always put different names on it and then ignore the natural data.
Science has become departmentalized and indoors.
And it's only in the last five years that actually weather science has really gotten focused on all these different dimensions of weather, nature, water, sea levels, and all of that.
They still tend to overgeneralize about averages, which I don't believe in averages, because it's extreme up in the Arctic.
Okay, the Gaia theory started in the 70s when ecology went holistic, and ecology went from the farm to the whole world, to the whole atmosphere.
But NASA had been tracking that since the 50s.
So Gaia was not totally new to NASA, but they won't really talk about it.
So when we're talking about the atmosphere, the layers of the atmosphere, and in the 50s they started tracking the stratosphere, the troposphere, the ionosphere, those different layers.
So when we're talking about weather and the sky, it isn't just the sky or even here, it's the layers everywhere.
And if you go to the mountains or the sea or the desert or the valleys or the prairies, the atmospheric functions differently because the layers are different in the different terrains.
And then the oceans are pumping off a tremendous amount of moisture going into the sky.
Like when I used to go traveling, and I'm glad I'm not traveling anymore with the stress and the burning oil and everything, is that there's a tremendous amount of cloud cover out in the oceans.
All of this, when you look at all of this, so much of what you've described already tonight, are we headed for some sort of catastrophic, from a human point of view anyway, a catastrophic change that would make life on planet Earth virtually not possible?
Yes or no to that kind of question is insufficient.
So try and work up either a yes or a no for me after the top of the hour.
Okay.
From Manila in the Philippines, Southeast Asia, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. Indeed, here I found something very funny happened during the break.
We've been having a little controversy here about how tall Erin is, and I'd measured her previously, and she's 4 feet 8 inches tall.
Not really tall.
She said, oh, no, no, no.
I'm 4'9.
I know I'm 4'9.
So we just did another measurement.
Indeed, she's 4'8.
And she turned around and looked at me and said, would you please get me a growing Can you get me a growing pill?
Growing pill.
I don't think so, but if any of you know of growing pills out there, be sure and let me know.
Michael Sunata is my guest, and we're talking about the Earth's climate, and we're talking about the heating that's going on, obviously a great concern for many, many people.
And regarding a catastrophic sequence that would make inhabiting the Earth virtually impossible for human beings, an answer of yes and no with regard to whether that's coming or not is simply insufficient.
So we'll try and press Michael in a moment.
Once again, Michael Sonata.
Michael, I'm getting some fast blasts from people in the audience who are listening to you, and they say things like, great subject, but not a good guest.
He seems incapable of follow-through on answers to questions.
And I think what's bothering the people in the audience, Michael, is that when I ask a question, you're coming back many times and saying, well, this is intuitive, or I'm answering you just intuitively, not with evidence, mind you, but with intuition.
So let me try again on the catastrophic sequence question, because a lot of us have children, and a lot of people have grandchildren, and they're damn well concerned about what's going on with our Earth right now.
They do see the warming.
They finally notice.
They know that changes are going on.
So that's a pretty important question, whether all this is leading to a condition where humans can no longer live on the planet.
I said before that, and this relates to where you live.
The answer is it depends on where you live and how you live.
If you live in balance with nature in your bioregion and you're aware of where the weather comes from and what the 100-year extremes are, the 100-year extremes, see, there's no simple answers for these questions that you, in fact, let me try one that you can handle.
So it has to do with water supply and how fertile the soil is where you live, and are you cooperating with the neighbors?
And do you understand the local weather cycles?
So if I sound like I'm incompetent, it's because nature is so chaotic, and we're asking questions that deal with the whole world, and I can usually deal with a bioregion very, very clearly.
But when you go with the whole world, the variations are just extreme, and that's why scientists go to averages.
Because we've been having this, and this relates to peak oil, because we've been having dropping water tables and more energy is putting into pumping irrigation water, but if there is a cutoff of electricity or oil or the peak oil thing and the crash or the shortages, and they can't pump water, do you realize how devastating that would be to irrigation?
The peak oil production of the United States was in the 70s.
But then you would look at the refinery process as part of the peak oil.
In other words, what's the maximum capacity we can refine oil?
And what's the maximum capacity for extraction?
And that was why in the 70s we had an oil crisis, because we became aware, not everyone, but We became aware that the oil that we had already peaked out on the amount of oil that we could extract from the United States from underground.
But now there's another thing that says that they wanted to, the oil industry and the military wanted to have war with the Middle East, and they wanted to go over there and get oil.
So it's possible that the scarcity of oil in the United States is not real.
And I've heard reports on coast to coast of people who come on and say, oh, we capped an oil well in Texas.
You know, that there's rumors that it's not a real scarcity.
So I think that scarcity has always been a problem in the cities particularly.
And if you go back in the empires, scarcity, because cities are dependent on importing things.
But if there is a peak oil, if it is true that we're maximum on importing, extracting, and refining oil, and the price is going to keep going up, it's very possible that they've been just jacking the price for profit.
Well, the information I'm getting from many sources is there's a huge amount of supply of deposits of oil in the ground in many places in the world, in Alaska, in the United States, in Canada.
You know, just there's tremendous in the Middle East and in Venezuela.
I mean, there's undiscovered, there's a tremendous amount.
I think there's way more oil than we could ever extract.
And the Thomas Gold theory is that the Earth is actually making oil, and there's a really, scientifically, there's a strong case for that.
The people who tell us that there's not enough, that there's a scarcity, and they whip up their scientists, are the industry people, the same people that put out PR for the industry.
And those people have been promoting their own self-interest profits.
Ralph Nader's been raving, raging about this since the 60s.
This is nothing new.
The scarcity of almost any resource is part of the industrial profiting game.
I've seen any number of stories that indicate that we either are at peak oil extraction now or, as you pointed out, might have been back in the 70s now.
We know roughly how much oil there is in the Mideast, I think we do anyway.
And there have been some new discoveries.
But I'm not one of those people who believes that kind of like the good and plenty horn, that it just keeps flowing back in.
And when you're dealing with war, the real reasons are usually the hidden reasons, and the PR, the disinfo reasons, are the reasons they give the public.
And Thomas Gold was a brilliant scientist who had these radical theories on a few other subjects, astronomy and so on, that was discounted and doubted for decades, and then evidence finally went to support it.
I mean, they're a profit-motivated industry, obviously, so they take advantage of what's There's no question about that.
I have no doubt about that in my mind.
It's just this peak oil thing, and whether we really are pumping the second harder to get half of the oil out of the ground or whether there's virtually a limitless supply.
I mean, if you're in the suburbs, then you are not easily supportable with all the various services, electricity, whether it be natural gas or whatever energy source you're using has to be brought to you as opposed to your being in a city and it just being available to you as it is many others in a close-knit area.
So it's very easily delivered, very easily distributed, more efficiently distributed.
Well, it is very easy to do it, Michael, because I'm in Southeast Asia.
I'm about an hour and a half by plane from China.
And if you were to see what was going on in China right now and in a whole lot of the East here, it would scare the hell out of you.
They would like to have everything that we have in the U.S. And by that I mean a car or two in the garage, a nice television, paved roads, you know, all those little things that we've become used to.
But if they get them, and we're talking here about billions of people, Michael, I don't think it's sustainable.
I don't think that the earth can sustain that kind of pollution.
And there are radical changes in China, but they're probably relatively small, like putting grass and having grass on top of buildings, you know, growing lots of rooftop growing things.
And the toxic level, this gets into the health issue.
This is something that's been ignored totally by the peak oil and the energy people is the toxic effect of all of these pollution is devastating our health.
And that's why the health industry is exploding and why the alternative health movement is exploding also because the pollution that we're heating up our environment with is making people sick from acids.
And we're talking all kinds of acids, hundreds, thousands of different kinds of acids, but particularly in the food and the air and the water, are making people sick.
And people say, well, I'm getting sick.
I don't know why.
Well, if they would just look at the environment and look at it from a chemical or acid, alkaline balance point of view, you could see that that's partly what's making people sick.
Well, the peace movement has been very weak and very small compared to what it was in the 70s.
The war is a war to consume, and it's a war of consumption.
It's a war to use more resources, to capture more resources, to burn waste.
That's been another effect that we haven't looked at.
For example, the government, that is all of the Congress and the departments, have not analyzed the effect of all of our military, all of our military, on the environment that they're in and all of the oil that they consume and the oil that they burn and all the electricity that they use.
So it's a whole system analysis.
So what I'm saying is that the government is doing a lot to waste and they're doing almost nothing to analyze, let alone cut back.
I mean, you first have to analyze how much energy is being used and what efficiency is.
Efficiency went out the door under the Reagan.
In the 70s, we started getting into efficiency.
What is efficiency?
People start turning off their lights at night.
Now we're burning twice as much as we were in the 60s.
One is to feel the effects in the environment that you're living in, to see how much waste is occurring, to look at the efficiency, the input and the output, to analyze energy audit, to analyze how much you're spending that's a waste, to evaluate what is the efficiency in home and business and schools and so on.
This has not been done, and it's been totally ignored for 25 years, with people being proud of wasting.
The next is to start conserving energy every way possible.
We do have to look at the efficiency of what we're doing and then begin to cut back a little bit.
But again, balance that statement Against knowledge that in the rest of the world, they're progressing very rapidly toward consumption on a level that you don't even want to know about.
I mean, it's just if you take a trip to China and see what's going on right now, it would scare you to death.
And I'm really serious about that.
I did, and it did scare me to death.
And it's multiplied several times over now.
All right, from Manila in the Philippines, Southeast Asia, I'm Mark Bell with Michael Sunanda.
We'll be right back.
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever the case may be, from Manila in the Philippines, where the rain, thankfully, gently is falling today and not in a typhoon manner, but just sort of gently.
What we're going to do is change things up a little bit.
I'm going to open the lines right now for Michael Sunanda and let you ask questions for the next half hour or so because I'm very curious what you, the audience, would ask Michael about all of this and what he's had to say so far.
And then we'll go into open lines during the last hour of the program.
One of the questions that follows up, I'm not sure, makes sense in the case of Michael because he said one of the questions is how does natural energy, no correction, how and why is our century of cheap oil, gas, and coal doomed to run out?
Now, if I was listening carefully to the last segment, and I think I was, he essentially said it isn't going to run out, unless he means the oil companies are sort of going to cause it to run out, which wouldn't make sense if they still have supply.
So we will ask that question in a moment.
And in the meantime, if you would like to line up and ask a question, Michael is all yours.
Well, what I'm attempting to do is to get us to analyze how much we're using and how wasteful it is.
And just based on the amount of waste that we're creating and the pollution that we're creating and the future for our children that we're creating with the amount of waste.
I mean, the worst case would be nuclear waste.
The most constant would be the air pollution that just blows away.
But in some cities, it hangs in there.
So basically, I'm saying that it's doomed because the cities are becoming unlivable.
And the reason I'm calling is I heard Michael say that he live in Northern California, up in Oregon.
I'm in Northern California, and I downloaded your map looking at the global view of the heat wave and that sort of thing, the arid regions that may face more drought is what it's called.
What I'm wondering is, what is your prediction on the areas on the globe that are going to be the most livable in the times to come?
Hopefully, Art Bell's area would be included in that.
Well, in permaculture, we look at the fertility of the soil.
So that would mean valleys with soil, valleys with good water.
And if you're wherever you live, you need to look at your watershed and see if it's sustainable.
And sustainable meaning not just five years or ten years in the future, but a minimum of 20 to 100 years.
And that's what sustainable is.
Our vision of the future has become shrunk down to five or ten years of future.
So it's, okay, then the weather.
Then where does the weather come from?
Is it chaotic?
What is the 100-year extremes in the areas where you are?
Now, in the last cataclysms, there was 750 BC, 1500 BC, and 10,000 BC, and those are documented, extremely documented.
The high fertile valleys, and I say not extremely high, but in some places in the Andes and in the Himalayas and in the Alps and places where people have been living in these high fertile valleys for many centuries, the same way, the same permaculture sustainable life.
Well, I don't expect suburbs to become permaculture sustainable.
But if you want to survive, then you learn how to grow food and you go to a place where the ground is fertile and you can share with your neighbors.
So this may mean if there is a crash, and I don't know if there's going to be a crash because it's been predicted now, you know, on and off for 30 years, that the people who are cooperating, who are simple or natural or living in balance with their bioregion, are the ones that are going to enjoy the changes that are coming.
It's a complete reversal of attitude about new changes.
Okay, in 1971, I was getting a master's degree in family counseling at the UVO, and I was starting to meditate and become aware of greater things and bigger things.
The peace movement was on, but I wasn't a protester.
And I started reading fuller, and it was enlightening.
And so it started making sense of all the science that I had taken for at least 10 years before that.
And the science started seeing how it was separate.
So I started looking at nature as energy, and I went back and did three weeks of world game, eight hours a day seminar, like a graduate seminar, for three weeks of eight hours a day.
It's Cardondale, Illinois, where he had two domes set up.
And it's been one of the most radical places in the Midwest.
There are very few in there.
And it's also Vortex, an Earth Vortex.
Well, I really love the Earth Vortexes, and we have them in Oregon and mountains and so on.
So that launched my career.
Then I went back to Eugene.
I did 52 programs, radio programs about Bucky Fuller called I Seem to Be a Verb.
And that played in Eugene and San Francisco and a few places in Portland and Seattle.
And then I met Fuller in 72.
We became friends.
But he was a very distant kind of person, so we couldn't really be friends.
And I was a hippie then, and so the hippies really loved him.
The whole Earth Catalog was he was the godfather of the whole Earth Catalog because he brought whole systems to us.
We didn't know what a whole system was before.
We were all into departments and schools and everything, which they still are.
So that's why school people, people who are educated that way, they can't understand what I'm talking about.
And I don't mean to sound irritable or to be rude, but I would like to know from your guest, Michael Sunada, if it's kind of a two-part question, if global warming, you know, one way or the other, if it's affected him personally and his family, and if he sees a serious solution to this problem, I'll list off the air.
Yeah, well, actually, in the 70s, I started living extremely simple.
And in the 80s, I started camping out all the time, and I moved to Hawaii so I could live outside and live on the land.
And I've lived in many different families and communes and so on.
So I've had a lot of experience in growing food, living simple, camping out all the time.
I bicycle all the time now.
Right now, outside in the backyard of my friend's house sitting on the ground.
So I really love nature and I'm devoted to this, and it's a spiritual path for me.
I do Qigong every day, and it's affected my family, but I've lived in many different families, and we're just constantly learning how to do it more simple, more like we make kefir out of raw goat's milk, raw cow's milk, and I've gone back to eating meat, although I was a vegetarian for 20 years, and then I went to India, and things reversed.
So I'm into reversing patterns and reversing my belief systems.
I don't have absolute beliefs about these things that I'm learning about.
Yeah, that's kind of what I get from listening to you, Michael.
It seems as though you've taken a great deal of what you've heard here on Coast to Coast from various guests and sort of synthesized it, and what you're bringing us today is kind of a – like kind of a belief system or your intuitive feeling based on a lot of what you've heard on Coast.
Okay, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Michael Sunada.
unidentified
Hi, Mike.
Mike, I kind of agree with you on the oil deal, that oil's not running out.
One of the reasons is if most Christians kind of pass this up, in the Bible in Revelation, it talks about the four horsemen, and one of them is famine and all, but they're also admonished not to touch the oil or the wine.
So I don't believe that there is really an oil shortage.
I just wanted to say that I'm very happy with our Missouri Botanical Gardens, our glass dome that he was speaking of, and that I understood that it could take 500 mile-an-hour winds, and that it was very energy efficient, and that there's a lot of books written from the Appalachians about living off the land.
And I was hoping that you could give some ideas of maybe local governments and groups that could get together to find more green answers to our programs.
In Eugene, Oregon, and Portland, and some towns in California, and a very few in Washington, the county and the cities are doing things.
One is a stormwater management program, where they're watching the entire watershed of how the water circulates and how much is being recycled and used and wasted and channeled in different ways.
So that's one of the bioregional things.
And the other would be the air.
We have laws that prevent us from controlling electricity and toxic chemicals in our towns.
So we need cooperative groups in the neighborhoods and in the community and also with the government.
You can go to the county and you can see if you can find somebody in the county or the city government or rarely in the state government, although there are a few sometimes departments in the planning department that's aware of efficiency.
Fuller's domes are the most efficient structure other than maybe a teepee.
And I've stayed in teepees before and you're someone I'm going to go to.
And Da Vinci also did a few things with designs of platonic solids.
The triangle is the strongest structure in the universe.
You could argue that a sphere, like a real sphere, is very strong.
But nature doesn't make many real spheres.
Nature makes more egg-shaped things.
And tetrahedrons, if you look at tetrahedrons, which is your basic three-sided pyramid, not a four-sided pyramid, a three-sided pyramid with a base, it is by far the strongest structure.
And if you look at a building that's square, they're not inherently strong.
They have to put triangles in the corners to make them strong.
So your corners of the buildings are buttressed by triangles and tetrahedrons.
And the dome itself is like a bubble that's very rigid, but yet will somehow flex when the wind or earthquakes hit it.
And that's why the military got it in the 50s and have been using it.
And the hippies have been using these structures.
They're pretty much against building codes in the cities.
There are a few cities.
Actually, they did bring the DOMS up to code in Eugene and a few cities where they were very aware.
But the people have to be aware and willing to analyze what is efficiency and what is efficiency.
Okay, here's one of the big lies of the oil industry.
They said in the 50s, when the Green Revolution was cranking out oil-based poisons into farms, and it still is, that carbon production, carbon dioxide in the air and burning fuels and so on, is good for growing things.
Well, that was a very short-term laboratory, not natural research data that they got.
So when you get research data, you really need to look at the source of who's taking the data.
Is there anything natural about the system, or are they creating the system and then measuring it to prove their point?
So the point is that carbon dioxide in excess can help plants grow, but only in very limited conditions.
And then you have to measure the toxins.
Well, you don't have to, but I mean, I would rather look at how pure something is than some laboratory to try to prove, lab research, to try to prove a point that it's good to consume that stuff and burn it up.
And that was, okay, it's just a matter of looking at all the information that you have and then deciding rather than going into it with a belief that it's good or bad.
I think nature is better than petrochemicals myself.
However, our economy is sustained presently by petrochemicals, and since we did not really begin to do anything about that in the 70s, at least nothing that was sustained, Michael, we're going to have to continue to get our hands on petrochemicals until a real, viable economic alternative comes along.
People can move to the country and go into permaculture, and there's not many people who are going to do that.
Maybe 1% would be a lot.
But there's movements for that, and there's a lot of cooperatives.
If you go on the web and you look up climate crisis solutions or the climate crisis coalition and all these different names, peak oil and so on, there are local movements in most of the cities in the U.S. and some extremely, mostly where there's young, idealistic people who are aware and are still learning, because most of the adults are happy consuming and they quit learning.
It is squarely a miracle that I'm able to be on the air from Manila in the Philippines.
I mean, I'm literally on the other side of the world.
Do some measurements, as I have, and you'll find it's 7,000, 8,000, 9,000 miles to one point or another in the United States.
It's a long way away.
So if any of you have questions about this part of the world or about anything we've discussed tonight, we're about to go to Open Lines, grab a line, and any subject is certainly fair game.
Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
Don't forget, tomorrow night, we're going to have Dr. Stephen Greer here, who will clear up an alleged statement he made about SETI contact and then John Hoag.
And in view of what's going on in the Middle East right now, that's certainly something you may have comments on.
It's appropriate to have John Hoag on.
I'm Art Bell, and in the nighttime, this is Coast to Coast AM.
By the way, that reminds me.
I heard in the first hour of the show that Denny's actually did sponsor the first hour of the show, and I think that's the first time that anything like that has been done.
All right, here come an hour of open lines.
Anything you want to talk about, literally anything, is fair game.
I'm Will, and I'm in Miami, and I'm very curious about that thing you were talking about earlier about Nelson Mandela, how you and a bunch of your callers had thought that he had died.
I'm curious because the same thing happened to me with three other celebrities, Ricky Ricardo, Andre Segovia, and George C. Scott.
Now, I actually saw it on a news report on television.
I can't honestly tell you that I recall how I thought I knew that.
It was probably from some report or honest God, sir, I don't know.
But here's what I think.
And this is pretty wild stuff, but I think that occasionally there are little slips in time that something becomes manipulated, and then people have vague memories of The way something was, except that it changed.
And that's not a satisfactory way to answer your question.
But something went back in time, or something affected the time stream, and something changed.
And then people remember something that actually, in the present timeline, really did not happen.
I'm trying to confused way of trying to get it.
unidentified
Do you?
Yeah, because I saw news reports on all those three people that I told you about.
And then a year or two later, Andrei Segovia comes in concert to my town.
Or I see another news report where the celebrity actually dies, and then it's confirmed.
I'm talking about a span of like one or two years.
Listen, I don't have an explanation beyond what I just tried to articulate, and that is that I do believe that occasionally history, or time, if you will, is in some way manipulated.
And we all, or many of us, think that we know one thing, and then something else turns out to be the case.
And we all sort of go, oh, gee, I thought I remember the following happened.
Well, it didn't happen, or at least current history says it did not happen, but many, many people believe the same thing.
Now, what does that come from?
I have no idea.
Apparently, it comes from some, and it's only my guess, or as Michael would have said, his intuitive feeling, that something happened to change what was.
And I just wanted to say thank you for being on the air.
I've enjoyed your program now for about five years.
And I just think that moving to Manila was a great move for you.
And I wish the best for you.
I just wanted to mention, do you think that the Middle East, the thing that's going on in the Middle East, in Israel, and the heat of the sun, do you think that there is a correlation between the two?
And do you think the effects are brought on because of everybody thinks that they have a solution for Israel and nobody seems to be able to find one?
And I was wondering if you think there's a direct correlation with that and the heat of the sun as far as drought is like similar to Bible times.
Okay, I wouldn't venture to say whether there's actually a connection between what's going on in the Middle East and the heat of the sun.
I think that as times in the world become more stressful, and I can read story after story after story about the world becoming hotter, about the oceans having more dead zones in them, and about the air pollution and all the rest of the things that are going wrong in the world right now.
And I can certainly imagine that as there is more stress on the world, oh, in terms of getting energy, for example, that that's going to bring about wars.
With respect to what's going on in the Middle East right now, I understand what Israel is doing.
I understand why they're doing what they're doing.
It seems to me that it boils down to, I don't know, kind of like self-defense.
I mean, if somebody's lobbing rockets at you, eventually you lob back or you do something to try to stop them from lobbing rockets at you.
And so that's what Israel is doing.
Now, whether this will escalate beyond anybody's control into something really awful, I have no idea.
The Bible tells us that will be the region and that will be the place.
Whether or not it's the time right now, I do not know.
Basically, I'd like to discuss what I think is an undervalued potential solution to the global warming, the petrochemical, and the pharmaceutical problems of our planet.
And that being, of course, medical marijuana.
I'm the executive director of the medical marijuana program on the Main Island and helped legislate our program in Honolulu.
And we're in our seventh year now of treating chemotherapy patients and AIDS and glaucoma and chronic pain with marijuana.
I think that marijuana, and I've said this over the years, is far less damaging to a person physically than is, and that's not to say that it's not damaging.
It's like smoking.
You absolutely know it's not good for your health.
But in terms of the damage to an individual, I think it's not as serious as alcohol.
It may have some benefits from a health point of view.
That's being argued all over the place right now.
I think that law enforcement would find far better, more efficient things to do with their time than hunting down somebody who suffered a broken back or a broken neck or has cancer and is using marijuana and believes it to be helpful.
They could use their law enforcement time for far better things than hunting down people like that.
Hey, I wanted to talk to you about the current fuel prices and who has purchased our gas stations in the last 10 or 15 years.
I was kind of wondering what was Going on with the transition.
And after 9-11, a friend of mine owns a station, and he was kind of miffed by the prices raised in town when he didn't raise his prices because he said they raised the price off of supply and what it costs to replace what's in the tank.
And who's changing the prices on the signs?
The people that bought the gas stations over the last 10 or 15 years.
Yeah, and then the next one would come along and they'd raise the price or lower it depending on what the cost was, right?
unidentified
Exactly.
And it seemed like after 9-11, the people that purchased the stations over the last 10, 15 years just seemed to increase the prices over any little political whim that comes along.
And I kind of wonder if that's not what's going on.
When you're talking about the kind of prices that you just quoted, and I must tell you, everything over here is in liters, and I'm trying to recall now, but I believe it's between 36 and I should have paid more attention, and 40-something.
I'll have to take a look at the prices over here, but I think I worked it out, and it's very consistent with the prices in the United States.
It may be a little lower here in the Philippines, but not very much lower.
So fuel prices worldwide are pretty much the same.
And the only difference, of course, is the amount of taxation applied to the fuel, because everybody's buying fuel from the same source, pretty much, the spot fuel market.
The Philippines, the country I'm in now, imports a very great deal of its oil.
In fact, a higher percentage than the U.S., I believe in the U.S., you're now importing 70 or around 70%, and it's probably in the high 80s or low 90s here.
That may affect prices to some degree.
In other words, the homegrown stuff may be a little bit less.
But generally, the world is fairly stable in terms of fuel prices.
What's driving it right now is my neighbor over here, China.
They really are consuming a very great deal of fuel, and the more they consume, the more it's going to cost because it is all supply and demand, at least supposed to be.
I only wanted to speak about Michael, your guest, a little bit.
Sure.
We've had some shows on Coast, and, you know, thank God for Premiere and Coast.
Not a criticism, but there are a lot of guests that come on that seem to want us to go back to the earth and to plant and to do a lot of things that would wipe out pharmaceuticals, which, you know, I have high blood pressure and I take plavics and a lot of, I had a stent put in my heart last July.
Sure.
And a lot of things that really, if we didn't have them, I wouldn't be talking to you right now.
And it just seems as if there's a movement here to bring us towards a Marxist system.
And I know you're a libertarian.
I'm a libertarian.
And it troubles me when indirectly guests like that sort of want to take down the system that we have.
Although we have flaws, you know, Art, we've always had flaws in our political systems.
But there are people who would just like to disassemble all of this and march us back to the eighth century, you know.
And I know that, Art, and that's why I felt comfortable talking to you about it, because we get a lot of them on, and a lot of people, you know, it sounds good.
You know, let's not drive cars anymore.
Let's not burn energy.
You know, turn off your air conditioner.
And it sounds so good, but a lot of people don't realize that Some of these people really just want to march us back into the dark ages.
Well, I'm in sympathy, I'm certainly in sympathy, thank you, with you, Michael, with regard to the fact that you might not even be here right now if it were not for the pharmaceuticals.
I think we can find more efficient ways to burn the energy that we do have and ways to create more efficient energy to use for the future, and we're sadly lacking, should have been doing that many, many years ago.
But with regard to pharmaceuticals, you're absolutely right.
I mean, we march forward, we save lives, we find new ways to have people deal with medicines and to obtain medicines that save lives.
With respect to what I saw, my wife and I saw, it was indeed on the news.
The newspaper, the local newspaper, covered it with, albeit a fairly small story.
But at the time it said, well, there was indeed sighting of something that flew across the Prump Valley that night.
And the military admitted to a secret mission which did overfly the Prump Valley that night and claimed that it was a C-130 aircraft.
Now, as I think I've mentioned on the program previously, I flew in C-130 aircraft in the Air Force.
I know a C-130 pretty well, and I can assure you that at 150 feet, a C-130 doesn't look a bit like a triangle, nor does it sound a bit like something that's being manipulated soundlessly.
In fact, it would rattle your teeth.
So, yes, these things, they change your life when you see them.
What else can you say?
We're in open lines.
If you have any questions, any topics you'd like to talk about at all, it's all fair game.
From Southeast Asia, my little corner of Southeast Asia, over 7,100 islands in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
And that reminds me, again, congratulations to Robert Bigelow, who has successfully launched his first space vehicle.
It's a private space vehicle, and it's a precursor to what's going to end up being a hotel in space.
Robert told me a very long time ago that he was going to do this.
And, you know, you hear about these things, not frequently from billionaires, mind you, but you hear about these things from time to time, and you sort of file them away.
But Robert has done it.
And so that picture on coast2coastam.com right now, my webcam, the flowers are from Robert Bigelow.
And thank you, Robert.
And congratulations, Robert.
And if the gods of guesting can get hold of Robert Bigelow for next weekend, my gosh, I sure would like to interview him.
Back to Open Lines in a moment.
By the way, we will do a full Open Lines segment one of these weekends very soon, perhaps even coming up this next weekend.
Well, I do think that what's happening is that science and the metaphysical are beginning, it's very resistant, frankly, on both sides.
Not as much the metaphysical as on the side of science, but these two regimes are coming closer and closer and closer together.
I understand there's a sort of a natural tendency for them to repel each other, particularly in the case of the side of science.
It repels the metaphysical, but dragged, kicking, and screaming, I think there's going to be a meeting of the mind, so to speak, and it's going to come pretty quickly.
And as I mentioned earlier in the show, you may not have caught it.
I think that I'm getting very close to trying to talk the management here into letting me put a vertical antenna up on the roof, which would be about 200 feet in the air and should work very well back toward the state.
So I'm about to tackle that.
There have been any number of priorities that have been a little ahead of that, like finding a place to live and getting some furniture and all the rest, getting the ISD inline and a lot of things, getting my residency and visas settled here and all that sort of thing.
But I'm just about there.
So look for me on the air shortly.
unidentified
Well, that sounds great.
I doubt if I'll ever be able to talk to you again because of the time difference.
I sat down and watched a couple of movies, and I can't recall the titles right now, but they had my program running in the background nearly all the way through the movie.
And about halfway through the movie, I looked at my wife and I said, hey, isn't that my show?
Yes, it is.
I'm also in a new video game called Prey, and I've had a million emails about that.
Indeed, that's my voice in a new video game called Prey.
unidentified
I remember seeing you on a television series called, I believe it was called Dark Skies.
He mentioned about Ricky Ricardo being dead, and it was actually Desi Arnaz.
Ricky Ricardo was the character he played.
And you had the gentleman that called regarding the pharmaceuticals.
You know, if there was a study done as to how many people die every year at the hands of pharmaceuticals when there truly is natural cures to many of the problems that ail people and also one of them being poor diet and lack of exercise.
I'm very, very concerned about what's going on right now, and whether or not it turns into World War III, or is it the first stages of World War III, as Newt Gingrich seemed to suggest, it's bad.
And it seems to get worse every day.
I'm waiting for it to turn the corner and get a little bit better.
And I was calling about earlier when you were talking about the Amazon rainforest and the breath of fresh air and how it's going to cut the rainforest down, it's going to deplete the world's oxygen supply.
Well, let's say if you made the oxygen atoms the size of a golf or a tennis ball, and hydrogen atoms the size of a golf ball, say you put 200 tennis balls in the deal, and 400 hydrogen deals, it seems to me like they'd come out about level.
It wouldn't be the same amount of volume.
And I don't wonder why there's a difference in the volume.
And when I was about 11, approximately 1961, I was watching Walt Disney.
As a matter of fact, I can remember what was on.
It was Davy Crockett.
And during the commercial, came on, like Walt Disney's wonderful world of colour, and you saw the thing.
I said, well, I'm going to get out of the freezer.
And we had this room called the Spare Room, and there was nothing in there.
It was winter time.
And I went in there, the door closed behind me, and this energy field came out of the ceiling, approximately maybe two feet long, maybe a foot wide, and it came down like maybe a foot and a half, and it completely enveloped my body.
And I had this high-frequency pitch Go through my head.
And it stayed there for like maybe 20 seconds or something like that.
And then it kind of lifted out of the ceiling.
And I shook my head and I said, boy, that was kind of weird.
And I went to the prison, got what I was getting, and went back and watched Walt Disney.
About maybe six months later, I was lying on my side next to a wall and I couldn't move.
I couldn't move the first time, but for some reason I could see it.
But the second time, I couldn't move.
And I was laying in bed, and I thought, you know, was I dreaming?
But I knew I was awake, but that same sound was going through my head.
But this time, it held me longer, and I remember saying to myself, gee, I hope I'm not like this forever.
Sir, you get that paralysis that you just talked about.
You also get that noise, that sound, that buzzing.
unidentified
You called it something else, but it's kind of like a buzzing.
But I wasn't sleeping the first time.
I mean, I was walking to the freezer in the spare room, and the door closed behind me.
I remember it was wintertime, and I don't know if you know, when there's a lot of snow outside, there's somewhat light in the room, and that's why I could see it.
And the second time, like I say, I couldn't move, and I did hear about sleep paralysis on your show, and I thought, well, that's what it was.
But like I say, the first time I wasn't sleeping, and I did see this thing, and I don't know what it was.
Was it an evil spirit?
Was it somebody from another planet or something checking me out, programming me?
Okay, well, of course, I have no way of answering that, nor any second-hand experience that I hear about, one that you would describe.
But these things do go on, and it's why a program like this is sustained again and again and again.
And even if you're one of the ones who sits out there and scoffs at this kind of thing, what you hear these people describe is not just, for the most part, usually, just their opportunity to get on the air and talk for a few minutes.
It's because they really did have these experiences.
And so again, it's why a program like this is sustained.