Art Bell

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July 29, 2006 - Art Bell

02:40:09

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Michael Sunanda - Global Climate Change

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01:18:17

michael sunanda

48:15

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the Southeast Asian capital city of the Philippines, made up of over 7,100 islands, Metro Manila.
		Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, all the way from Southeast Asia.
		How are you doing?
		It's great to be here, and it is my pleasure, indeed my honor, to be escorting you through your weekend.
		It is, well, it's kind of time travel here where I am.
		It's a little bit after one o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday.
		Now, we're going to talk about a whole lot of things tonight.
		We're going to have a very interesting weekend.
		Mr. Sanada, I believe it's Sanada, is here.
		He'll be here in the next hour, and he'll talk about global warming and a lot of other things.
		But this hour will sort of leave it, I don't know, open to talk about anything you want to talk about.
		There is a photograph on the website that I want you to take a look at.
		I think it's a beautiful photograph, and it has quite an explanation to go with it.
		What you'll see in the picture would be my wife, Erin, and some very beautiful.
		She's holding, by the way, Abby Dose, and the flowers that you're going to see are really the story.
		I was going to take a picture of myself for you, but I thought it would be kind of inappropriate to have me with flowers, even though they were sent to me and they came from Bob Bigelow.
		You know Robert Bigelow, right?
		So I'll explain why the flowers, if you don't already know, in a few moments.
		Just let me cover a couple of other things, questions that, you know, I literally get thousands of these questions, so I thought I would begin with a couple.
		Dear Mr. Bell, I have a question about a show which aired last Monday morning.
		At the beginning of the show, you had mentioned a guest who was associated with SETI.
		The guest was supposed to talk to you about proof of extraterrestrial signals that have recently been detected by SETI, and the public would soon be notified of this new information by SETI.
		Unfortunately, your guest did not make it to the show for the interview because I believe his car broke down.
		I wrote to the SETI Institute regarding this information, and I received a reply.
		And SETI, of course, says, no, no, it has not detected an extraterrestrial signal.
		If anyone had, it would be made known to the public in accordance with the, quote, Declaration of Principles concerning the activities following the detection of extraterrestrial intelligence.
		And they go on a little bit.
		Now, of course, we really don't know yet, do we?
		It has been long my opinion, despite a number of very earnest interviews that we've had with Seth Shostak and others at SETI, that they probably wouldn't tell us.
		And I know Seth certainly would disagree with that very strongly, but that is my opinion.
		Anyway, here is what Dr. Greer had to say.
		And the reason I'm repeating this is, one, because it is so shocking.
		And two, because Dr. Greer is indeed scheduled to be on the program tomorrow evening.
		Hopefully, the automobile will get him to where he needs to go.
		Anyway, here is the, I guess I'd better say alleged quote, quote, quote, quoting Dr. Greer here, we have confirmation, and I'm not going to give the name yet because we're trying to coax this guy out of the closet, but one of the senior people in the SETI project, which is indeed the Carl Sagan Search for Extraterrestrial Project, has confirmed to the disclosure project that they have received multiple extraterrestrial signals, end quote, of Stephen Greer.
		Continuing, quote, but that now, but they're now, they say, getting external human, probably NRO or NSA, jamming of those signals, and they're getting very frustrated.
		Greer continued, quote, the question is, why hasn't the SETI project, funded by Paul Allen and co-founder of Microsoft, come forward with this information?
		Now, I'm a little uncomfortable even mentioning this, except for the fact the public needs to know that this effort, which has indeed received a great deal of mainstream media attention, is actually confirmed to us from two inside sources that they have received extraterrestrial signals and have confirmed them as being extraterrestrial and that they have become increasing in frequency and number.
		Dr. Greer, of course, is head of the Disclosure Project, a nonprofit organization with almost now 500 former military intelligence and government employees who will go on record about their various experiences with aliens and alien technology.
		Now, once again, tomorrow night, I do once again have Dr. Greer scheduled on the program, and I certainly hope he can make it.
		Now, a couple of listeners.
		Hi, Art.
		Wanted to say that I've really enjoyed listening to you and George on Coast to Coast.
		I'm also planning on returning to the Philippines.
		My wife is from Manila, but she has family in Cebu, and that is where we're now looking for a place to buy.
		We don't plan on retiring for yet another 10 years or so, but we want to start looking for a place.
		Can you tell me what island and or city you decided on?
		Well, of course, Manila.
		And also, can you offer any advice on the kind of visa to get?
		Yes, I can.
		And this, my brother-in-law and I are both from Texas.
		We're married to Filipinas, sisters.
		He is a retired orthodontist now living in Baguio City.
		That's a city pretty close by that's very cool and nice.
		And with his wife, Emily, I'm soon to retire and have considered trying to retire near him.
		My concern is health care in the Philippines.
		Can somebody with type 2 diabetes get good care in the Philippines?
		I'm also concerned about the safety or practicality of traveling with our 12-pound silky terrier dog.
		Heard you traveling with your cats.
		Could you give me any opinions?
		Yes, on all of that, I certainly can.
		The health care here is superb.
	In fact, the Philippines exports many, many, many nurses and doctors.
	As I think most of you must know, there are many Filipinos out there in the healthcare system.
	It's an excellent health care system here.
	And, well, I'll give you an example.
	This last week, I had, don't let this shock you because it's no big deal.
	I had a little spot under my right eye, which turns out to be, what did they call it?
	I'm trying to think of the name of it.
	I believe it's, anyway, it's some kind of carcinoma, it's some kind of cancer, but not a bad one.
	Can't remember the name of it.
	Whatever it is.
	Anyway, they removed it, and I think it came to about 2,000 pesos.
	Now, you can do the math.
	Pesos converting to dollars would be about 52 pesos to each dollar.
	So the entire operation that lasted about an hour, and by the way, it didn't hurt a bit.
	They gave me the appropriate anesthetic, and all was well.
	And the little devil popped right out, and it's gone, and they got all of it, and goodbye, and good riddance, and all of that.
	But it was about 2,000 pesos, which is, believe me, for an hour operation and follow-up, not very much.
	So the cost of healthcare here is just a fraction of what it is in the United States.
	The cost of other things also is just, I would estimate, 25 or 30%.
	The cost of just about everything is 25 or 30% what it is in the U.S. So I'm going to get a lot of questions like this.
	At any rate, traveling with your animals, no problem.
	There is, if you do the appropriate work ahead of time, there is no wait, there's no quarantine for your animals, so they can come right in with you if you so desire.
	And the living here, once again, let's say it again, is absolutely spectacular.
	The people are friendly.
	It's a wonderful place to live.
	I know there are, when you look on the web, you will find various State Department warnings and that sort of thing.
	It's all very overblown.
	There are some problems on the southern island of Mindanao, but not where I am here, and not, indeed, in most of the Philippines.
	So most of that is very overdone.
	But if you read the warnings about kidnappings and all the rest, you're going to be very concerned.
	I can just tell you that from my point of view, it's very safe.
	Never had a problem.
	Don't expect a problem.
	In a moment, we'll come back and look at the rest of the day's news.
	The End Well, you can always thank the people in the audience, no question about that.
	Peter in Grants Pass, Oregon said, all right, that's a basal cell carcinoma, a skin cancer of the basal cell of the skin.
	Good to catch it early.
	Yes, I thought so, too.
	Actually, it had been there for about five or six years.
	And before I left the U.S., my doctor said, oh, how did I miss that?
	And he said, you should get that taken out when you get there.
	And so I did.
	No big deal.
	2,000 pesos.
	Now, on to the world news.
	Let's see what's going on in the world.
	Israel pulls out of Hezbollah's stronghold.
	I've been watching this every minute on Fox News over here.
	Israeli troops pulled back from a Lebanese border town Saturday after a week of heavy fighting with Hezbollah guerrillas, who hailed the retreat as a victory.
	Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice returned to the Middle East to push a refined U.S. peace plan.
	The Israeli pullback from that town appeared to be in preparation for, so not so fast here, folks, a new incursion along rather a different part of the border zone.
	Hours later, troops and tanks massed farther to the east on the Israeli side of the frontier.
	So it goes on and on and keeps escalating.
	And I, like many of you, I'm very, very concerned about this.
	I don't know that I agree with Newt Gingrich, who talked about World War III, but it is certainly very concerning.
	More than 60% of the U.S. in drought.
	Now, this is the second associated press news story of the hour.
	Listen to this.
	More than 60% of our United States has abnormally dry or drought conditions stretching all the way from Georgia to Arizona and then across north through the Dakotas, Minnesota, Montana, Wisconsin.
	A climatologist for the National Drought Center at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln said all this, an area stretching from south central North Dakota to central South Dakota is the most drought-stricken region in the nation.
	The U.S. command announced Saturday that it was sending 3,700 more troops to Baghdad to try and quell the sectarian violence sweeping the capital there.
	And a U.S. official said more American soldiers will follow as the military gears up to take the streets back from the gunmen.
	The 172nd Striker Brigade, which had been due to return home after a year in Iraq, will bring quick-moving light armored vehicles to patrol this sprawling city of about 6 million.
	So good luck to our troops.
	The world's fastest man alive has apparently tested positive for something not good.
	Another American champion hit with a shocking positive drug test on Saturday.
	Olympic and World 100-meter champion Justin Gatlin.
	Gatlin said he's been informed that he tested positive for testosterone or some other prohibited steroids.
	Not good.
	Associated Press says Robert Charles Brown's claims that he killed 49 people have now generated so many telephone calls that the police have stopped keeping count.
	People want to know if it could possibly be one of their relatives.
	At any rate, he has confessed now to killing 49.
	Can you imagine that?
	Mel Gibson has apologized for a DUI arrest as well as apparently some disappointing comments he made to the officers who were making that arrest.
	Now, Robert Bigelow.
	Robert Bigelow is a longtime friend of mine in Las Vegas.
	As you know, he's been a friend for, I guess you know, he's been a friend for a very long time.
	Robert Bigelow reminds me of the, you remember the man in the movie Contact, the one who was up in the Russian space station?
	Robert has always reminded me of that man.
	And of course, Robert began Bigelow Aerospace.
	His comment to me one time was that, you know, aerospace art is the best way to take a billionaire and turn him into a millionaire.
	And of course, Robert is a billionaire.
	At any rate, buddy, congratulations.
	Now, the webcam picture that you see up there, those flowers are from Robert Bigelow.
	And what a shock.
	I got a call from downstairs.
	We generally get a phone call here when something's going on.
	And I got a call, and they said, are you expecting flowers, sir?
	And I said, no, I'm really not.
	Nevertheless, up they came and the card said it was from Robert Bigelow.
	And he said, oh, by the way, Art, we're flying.
	Well, I did some quick research, and that certainly is an understatement.
	Bigelow Aerospace of Las Vegas is making a bet against which the gaming tables in the very same city pale into insignificance.
	It aims to offer tourist accommodations in orbit, in space, using a Denver booster from ISC Cosmetronics, the Cosmotros, rather, the company has just launched its Genesis 1 module.
	Bigelow's plan is to invest about $75 million in creating expendable space habitats.
	It's backed by Robert Bigelow, founder of Budget Suites of America.
	Thus far, it appears the launch was indeed successful.
	The spacecraft is in communication with ground controllers.
	Genesis 1 is to be injected into orbit around Earth.
	Bigelow has created Aerospace Mission Control Center near Las Vegas for this and future launches.
	As a matter of fact, Robert invited me before I left for the Philippines.
	He gave me a call one afternoon and said, hey, Art, how about if I send a helicopter over the hill to pick you up and show you what I'm about to do?
	Well, at that point, I was very busy running around going to embassies and trying to get things straightened out.
	And so I didn't have time to hop in a helicopter and go see Robert, but I guess I should have.
	According to Space.com, once stable orbit has been reached, mission controllers are then going to test to determine if all the onboard systems are working correctly.
	Genesis 1 is intended to remain in orbit for years.
	It is a critical tool for the company to test how such habitats can survive the challenges of a space environment.
	Now, that, of course, includes space debris, often flying at missile-like speeds, solar radiation, far more intense than anything experienced here on Earth.
	The expandable module was tested extensively here on Earth prior to launch, but it needs to survive the acid test of space before human habitation can be seriously contemplated.
	The expandable habitat is made largely of soft shell materials, a very important design innovation.
	Such materials apparently can be configured and reconfigured with more flexibility than traditional spacecraft bodies and weigh considerably less.
	Weight, of course, a major consideration in any launch cost.
	You know, they do a launch per pound evaluation, and the launch costs are by far the greatest factor in space construction and project costs.
	So the flowers that you see in the foreground, I believe, with Aaron and Abydos are indeed those from Robert Bigelow, and it dawned on me suddenly that my friend has indeed achieved the first private space launch in history.
	That is no minor accomplishment.
	And Bob, if you're listening, hey, buddy, how about coming on next week for at least an hour and telling me about this?
	You totally blew me away with the flowers.
	And of course, your accomplishment.
	I couldn't figure out why Robert would send flowers.
	But there you have it.
	So congratulations, Bob Bigelow.
	And eventually, of course, this is going to turn into a tourist ability for many of you to go into space.
	For those of you who might not have had the opportunity otherwise, it'll be quite reasonable, ultimately.
	I think in the area of perhaps $100,000 per subject, ultimately.
	2006 is setting another not very good record.
	Apparently, 2006 now sets the heat record.
	The first six months of this year were the warmest on average since the U.S. began keeping records in 1895, and global warming is a contributing factor, according to a U.S. climate expert.
	July, August, and September are indeed forecast to continue the hot trend over most of the U.S., including the vast area of the country west of the Mississippi River, as well as New England, Florida, and southern Alaska.
	Only Hawaii is expected to have below average temperatures, according to the U.S. Climate Prediction Center.
	So the good news on our climate, ha ha, continues.
	Deep in the heart of the world's greatest rainforest, a nine-day journey by boat from the sea, Octovio Costello is anxiously watching the soft waters of the Amazon drain away.
	Every day they recede further, like water running slowly out of an immense bathtub, threatening a worldwide catastrophe.
	In fact, the headline is a disaster to take everybody's breath away.
	And of course, they mean that quite literally, because, as you know, the Amazon accounts for a very great deal of the breathable oxygen that we have on Earth.
	It's a sign that severe drought is returning to the Amazon for yet a second consecutive year.
	And that would be very ominous, according to this story, because new research is suggesting that one more dry year could tip the entire vast forest into a cycle of destruction.
	The day before, top scientists delivered much the same message at a remarkable floating symposium on a river on the strange black waters Beside which the capital of the Amazon stands.
	They told a meeting convened on a flotilla of boats by ecumenical patriarch Bartholomew, I believe it is.
	The Greek Orthodox Church dubbed the Green Pope.
	They call him the Green Pope for his environmental activism.
	The global warming and deforestation were pushing the entire enormous area towards a, quote, tipping point where it would begin to die.
	The consequences, of course, would be awesome.
	The Amazon basin would turn to get this a dry savannah at best and desert at worst.
	This would cause much of the world to become hotter, yet hotter, and drier.
	How much more of that can we really take?
	In the long term, it could send global warming out of control, eventually making the world, their word, folks, not mine, uninhabitable.
	So it's a strange world that we face these days, and we're all moving through it together, whether you're in Southeast Asia, as I am right now, or somewhere in the U.S. or Canada or any of the wide area of listening audience that we've got.
	A lot of geography out there, folks.
	Okay, from Southeast Asia, Manila in the Philippines, I'm Mart Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Want to take a ride?
	Oh, baby, you're on a ride.
	We all are.
	We'll go to open lines here in a moment, so if you have some questions or comments, you're welcome to make them.
	Grab the phone, dial one of those numbers.
	How far Chinese scientists will advance in deep space is not immediately known, but one thing is certain now.
	They are, they say, they're going to conduct an exploration of Mars besides their ongoing lunar mission.
	In the coming years, China will, on the basis of its moon probes, plan deep space exploration, focusing on lunar and Martian exploration.
	Sun's remarks at the 36th Scientific Assembly Committee on Space Research in Beijing appear to be the first time a Chinese official has announced that the nation's space program would include Martian probes.
	What do you suppose the Chinese are going to do on Mars?
	Oh, here's something else the Chinese are doing.
	The first plasma discharge from China's Experimental Advanced Superconducting Research Center, the so-called artificial sun, is set to occur next month.
	The discharge, the discharge, expected about August 15th, will be conducted at Science Island in Hefei, in East China's Ashu province.
	According to the People's Daily, scientists told the newspaper a successful test is going to mean the world's first nuclear fusion device of its kind is going to be ready to go into actual operation.
	That's a little worrisome.
	The plasma discharge will draw international attention since some scientists are concerned with risks involved in such a process.
	But Chinese researchers involved in the project say any radiation, they say, will cease once the test is completed.
	In a moment, we'll take some calls from all of you.
	Well, all right, as promised, let's open the lines and talk to all of you and see what's going on out there.
	Wildcard line, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, it's my honor to speak to you, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to speak with you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in New Jersey.
unidentified		My name is Dave, and I'm listening to you on 77WABC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		77W.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, sir?
unidentified		Indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't sing, so I really ought not try.
		But Iran, do you remember their old jingles?
		77W ABC?
unidentified		Well, it's funny because Saturday night now they do music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, do they call it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
unidentified		Yeah, no, it's really great.
unidentified		Okay, so listen, condolences and congratulations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I'm glad you're starting a new life.
unidentified		I'm glad your kitties made it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm also very pleased about all of that.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay, so I'm calling because I've had contact with extraterrestrials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
unidentified		Yes, it started when I was a very small child.
unidentified		And I always used to tell my mom the little people were in my room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These little people.
unidentified		Yeah, well, the beings, yeah.
		I mean, I was young.
		I was about four or five when it started.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How old are you now?
unidentified		I'm 47.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you're 47.
		You've obviously then had years and years of contact.
		We're on a phone call here, so we've got to boil it down to something fairly simple.
		What kind of message have you received?
		Do you know them to be good or bad or what?
unidentified		Well, at one night there was three beings.
		One to my right, one at the foot of my bed, and one to the left of me.
		And I felt the one to my left was a female.
		I don't know why I felt that.
		But the being put its hand on my arm and said, we've seen you before, and we're going to see you again.
		Fine.
		So adulthood, here we go.
		At my dentist, got a full head x-ray.
		Dentist comes back and says, have you ever had brain surgery?
		And I said, no.
		Well, he said, there's something in your nasal passage.
		So I saw the x-ray, and sure enough, there was something in my nasal passage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something metallic?
unidentified		Yes, it looked that way.
		But it was just an x-ray.
		It was like black and white.
		But it was definitely, it was about an inch, maybe less than an inch long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's still pretty good size in your nasal passage.
unidentified		Yeah, it was really strange.
		Okay.
		Well, anyway, a couple days later, I had to go get an MRI because they had this thing called hydrocephalus, fluid on the brain.
		So one night I woke up screaming, which means that the beings were there again.
		The extraterrestrials were back, and they took the implant out because I was scheduled, as I said, for an MRI.
		So, of course, it didn't show up on the MRI because they had taken it out.
		But I got one more quick thing, if I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure you're finished.
		I mean, is that the end of the story?
		It's just there?
		Does it do anything?
		Does it cause you problems?
		Does it what?
unidentified		Nope, didn't do a thing.
		And I don't know how long it was there.
		You know, I only found out from the x-ray from my dentist.
		I mean, it could have been there for a long time, and I didn't know about it.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you might want to contact Dr. Roger Lear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He specializes in implants and, in fact, removing some of them.
unidentified		Wow.
		Okay.
		Well, I think I'm pretty implant-free at this point in my life.
		But one more quick thing.
		In 1988, I had a major sighting here in New Jersey.
		I was driving home from my cousin's house, and I saw lights in the sky.
		Every time I see lights, I just pulled over into this park.
		Well, this thing flew over my head.
		All the hair on my body stood on end.
		And I started crying.
		And these kids were looking at me.
		They were saying, Oh, look at this guy.
		He's freaking out.
		I pointed up in the air, and a group of people just were like, Oh my god, what is that?
		I said, They said, What do you think it is?
		I said, I think it's a UFO.
		So they were like, Wow, you know, that was amazing.
		So I went to the city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you're not the only one who saw it.
		There were additional witnesses, and that story can be repeated a million times over.
		I mean, if you open up the lines and say, you know, who has seen something unusual?
		Who has seen an alien craft?
		Even with that particular requirement, underlying alien there, you would still fill up the line.
		So there have been millions and millions and millions of sightings.
		Now, implants, particularly ones detected by X-ray and that sort of thing, are rather uncommon.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear the CQ in code.
unidentified		Art, it's a great pleasure to work you.
		This is Tom in Maryland.
		We did work you on 3840 while back when you were in Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Tom.
unidentified		And I'm curious to know if you're going to be back on the air for me or if you're going to be on from the Philippines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very likely going to be on ultimately from the Philippines.
		Tom, I have all of my ham gear sitting right next to me at this very moment.
		I've got the room arranged very much the way I did in the high desert with one section devoted to computers, one section devoted to broadcast, and one section devoted to ham radio.
		And as soon as the time comes, and I hope that's pretty soon, I'm going to get some antennas up.
		I'm very near the top floor here.
		Probably a vertical, Tom.
		That'll be the best bet to work back toward the States.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		And 20-meter-long path.
		I'm sure the ham radio operators listening understand that.
		That's probably a very good time later in the year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Art, it's so great to talk to you.
unidentified		And 73 of my friends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, bud.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		Take care, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's east of the Rockies.
		And now west of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning, or whatever it is.
unidentified		Whatever it is.
		Hey, from the Kingdom of Nye to the Isles of PI, coast to coast, across the oceans, from the other side of the global warming experiment.
		Art Bell, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty well, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's long, but usable.
unidentified		Well, you can plagiarize any of that.
		It wouldn't be plagiarism because I'm giving it to you and the whole world just heard it.
		So there you go.
		I wanted to ask you a couple questions about your cats.
		First, Abby Dose.
		Is Abby Dose a tribute to Abby?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Sure.
		Abby Dose as in two.
unidentified		And also Abby Dose as in Egypt?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, Abby Dose as in tribute to Abby.
unidentified		Well, that's really cool.
unidentified		Wasn't that one Abby Normal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Funny.
unidentified		Well, I just wondered, because you had used that name a few times, and I thought maybe you had a cat as crazy and enjoyable as some of the ones that I've had.
		But I'll tell you, I remember the night that you told us about losing Abby, and I was outside like I like to watch or listen to Coast to Coast watching the stars.
		And I'll tell you, those tears melted that sky for me, too, because I really love cats.
		And I wanted to ask you about cats as onboards.
		I have had basically clans of cats from rescues and friends of mine that we've observed this.
		And at first they thought I was whacked.
		But I said, you know, look at this cat.
		It's picked up some traits of our cat that we just lost that it never exhibited before, ever.
		And it didn't happen just once, Art.
		It's probably happened about 15 times noticeably, sometimes more subtle than others.
		But there's been no doubt in my mind that like a passenger getting in the car, there's the driver spirit, and then there's the onboard spirit that seems to say, oh, turn left here, or whatever that specific trait that's so unique to the cat that passed.
		Part of the nine lives syndrome, maybe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, look, first of all, I know exactly what you're talking about.
		The moment you get a new cat and you name it for the old one, you begin to see characteristics of the old one.
		Now, either A, that may be true, and there may be some kind of cross-spirit movement, or B, and probably more likely, it's something that we as human beings do ourselves.
		In other words, our own brain looks for similarities.
		We are staggered by the loss that we feel.
		And so we look for similarities, and we immediately, our brain immediately makes that attachment.
		Our brains do that.
		They try to make sense out of the inscrutable.
		Our brains reach out and try to make sense out of things that we don't understand.
		So when we see a similarity, we want to see a similarity.
		We want to believe that that terrible loss we just went through has something to do with that cat.
		And so I'm not sure which it is.
		It could be one of either one.
		I think most likely the latter, though.
		I hate to be that way, but I suspect that's true.
		Or maybe there is a little bit of what you lost that has come back.
		And maybe it has more to do with you than anything heaven does.
		Let's see.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		This is Lori.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Lori.
unidentified		Hi.
		I have been listening to you for at least eight years, and this is the first time that I have felt absolutely compelled to call you.
		And I'm hoping when I finish telling you this short story that you might tell me if you've ever heard of anything like this or possibly your listeners could offer an opinion.
		Okay.
		My husband and I have been married for a few months.
		We lived together for several years.
		And his grandfather, my husband's grandfather, used to be a PR man for Sears Roebuck, which meant that he did a celebrity circuit, went to celebrity charities and live suck shows and things like that.
		We have a studio photograph of his grandfather sitting with Roy Rogers and Gabby Hayes.
		And in that photograph, my husband's grandfather has his wedding ring very prominently displayed on his hand, the same wedding ring that my husband now wears.
		And we have remarked on it several times and shown just about everyone that's come through the house this photograph and made the remark that it's the same ring that my husband wears.
		Today, whenever I looked at that photograph, the ring is no longer on that man's finger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, the very same photograph.
unidentified		The very same photograph.
		Oh, I'm beside myself.
		I've looked all over the internet.
		I've asked everyone I know, and no one has ever heard of such a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure it's not possible that you got it mixed up and found a second photograph, one in which the ring was not on?
unidentified		No, it's the same photograph.
		It's been the same frame for the last five years.
		It's been hanging on the wall.
		There's no copy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't begin to have an answer for that.
		I'll think about it, but I certainly don't have an answer for it.
		Here's what I guess I might suggest.
		And it's an awful big jump from what little she just told me, but occasionally there are little jumps in time.
		And occasionally things occur that, well, for example, this audience remembered, and this is just a sort of a loose parallel, but you may recall that we had this big brouhaha about the death of Nelson Mandela.
		Do you recall that?
		A lot of people in the audience, I was one of the first, thought that Nelson Mandela had died, that Nelson Mandela had not indeed gone on to become the leader of South Africa for a period of time, but he instead had died.
		And many, many, many people had that memory, inaccurate as it may have been in this timeline.
		That in this timeline.
		Anyway, obviously, that is an inaccurate memory as we now know it.
		However, a lot of people had it.
		So it may be that occasionally there are these little changes in time in some way, some little change, something that occurs that causes to be what was, that is to say, to be, not to be now.
		So that's the very best I can do, and that's pretty poor.
		Wildcard line, you're on air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi.
		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Oh, good.
		This is Inventor X. Inventor X. Yes.
		Yeah, I just want to know.
		I mean, I just want to tell you, you had, no, it was George who had a guest on ancient civilizations.
		Yeah, I just called that tonight.
		I couldn't get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're through now, so what is it you wanted to say?
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to let you and your audience know that in the Pine Barrens in New Jersey, there may be an ancient civilization called the Askins, A-Z-K-I-N-S.
		And they may be 1,000 years old.
		And if you dig up the artifacts, you may find communities, skyscrapers, and cars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that sounds pretty crazy.
		I don't know about the Askins, but many people postulate that man has been here on Earth before, that we have built cities, we have built civilizations, we have built all kinds of things, including, as he just mentioned, skyscrapers and what we would regard as reasonably modern buildings.
		And all of this many times has come and gone in catastrophic events of various sorts that have been visited upon the Earth in some sort of cyclic fashion, and that could well be.
		There's also, by the way, a publication called, since we've had a couple of New Jersey calls now, it's called Weird New Jersey.
		It's quite good, and New Jersey just doesn't seem like a place for the weird, but I can assure you, it is, in fact, pretty weird.
		Let's go, I guess, east of the Rockies and say hi.
		Good morning.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		It's Greg from Cincinnati.
		Hey, bud.
		You wanted a chemtrail update.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I said was I'd received a lot of email from people who said suddenly they're not seeing the kind or the numbers of chemtrails that we obviously at one time had.
unidentified		Not here in Cincinnati.
unidentified		On the weekends, there's the most activity, especially the highest peak activity is on, before, and after holidays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Especially Thanksgiving.
unidentified		Thanksgiving, I'd say, was the biggest day around here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, has it occurred to you, though, that Thanksgiving is also one of the biggest days for flying in the U.S. Yeah, that's true.
unidentified		That's true.
		I think that it was a way to track radiation in the 50s, and something went wrong, and they're trying to correct it.
		I guess I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know either, sir, but there is something to this chemtrail business.
		I'm not convinced that it's as much as we think it is.
		I'm sure that a lot of what we're calling chemtrails are actually simply contrails, the normal contrail that are protracted due to perhaps weather changes that we're undergoing.
		But there really is something to chemtrails, on the other hand.
		I've had guest after guest who has delineated for us what these chemtrails, at least in part, are comprised of things like aluminum and other things that you just simply would not expect to be in a contrail.
		Not in a million years.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		This is James from London, Ontario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, James.
unidentified		Greetings to everybody around the world.
		I love everybody.
		And I'd like to talk about how, if you've ever thought about Star Wars, if you've ever seen Star Wars Episode 3, actually the whole story of the way the Emperor Pralpstein came to power.
		And do you see any correlation with that, with maybe a secret message that Lord George Lucas might have, saying that maybe we as human beings are going down the same road with giving all the powers to George Bush, not just him, of course, he's just a, I think...
		I'm down that road right now.
		What do you think of David Ike as well as the Star Wars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let me give you the first response first, if I can, and that is that, no, I don't think there's a secret message in Mr. Lucas' work.
		I think that George Lucas does an absolutely classic job of portraying good and evil.
		You know, that's what the great stories in America and in the world, and America makes the best stories in all the world.
		Of course, our Hollywood is superb at what it does, but it's a classic good and evil story, right?
		Star Wars is absolutely classic in that regard.
		And I suppose some of you might make political connections.
		See if we have time for a call.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		How are you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		My name is Ron.
unidentified		I'm calling from Connecticut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Ron.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		I've been listening to you for years and years and years.
		I'm a late-night radio junkie from way back in the late 60s.
		Yes, sir.
		Back and forth from college.
		I heard them all.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't have a lot of time here, so.
unidentified		Okay, what I wanted to know, now you've started a new life there in the Philippines.
unidentified		You're going to start a family?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for that question.
		And the answer to that question is, I don't know.
		I think I'll put it to you this way.
		I'm not going to prevent the possibility.
		So should it occur, then it occurs.
		And on that note, which could have used expansion if I'd had the time, we're going to close, come back with Michael Sonata.
		And he's going to talk about global warming.
		That's well overdue.
		So I'm looking forward to that.
		That's coming up next.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		From Manila in the Philippines, I am indeed Art Bell.
		Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be worldwide.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		And we're going to talk about one of my favorite subjects tonight.
		Michael Sananda has built and designed hundreds of geodesic dome models and teaching toys.
		He found the secret Da Vinci geometry codes in his artwork based on spirals in nature and platonic polyhedrons.
		Michael's teachers about natural energy designs are Fuller, Reich, Steiner, Lukowski, Dan Winter James McCanney on weather, also a community CETA worker during the Carter energy crisis of the 70s.
		He is a teacher of permaculture and Gaia ecology about the whole energy patterns of Earth weather, climate systems, and natural fractal geometry and organic life.
		Wow.
		He is very inspired by the peak oil situation, global warming, and the climate crisis, movement since the coming global superstorm book, my book, as well as Whitley's.
		Echoplasms of 99, especially Al Gore's new movie and book on global warming, The Long Emergency, a book on peak oil crisis coming faster than ever now, he says.
		The possibilities are infinite now, how to reverse our polluting habits into local energy awareness, conservation, and cooperating, more natural, healthy, and balancing our lives in peace.
		That's quite an introduction.
		So coming up in a moment on the subject of global warming, and apparently a lot more, is Michael Sananda.
		I hope that I'm pronouncing that correctly.
		We'll be right back.
		By the way, right in the middle of the rainy season here in the Philippines, it's coming down pretty well out there right now, and it has been every day.
		Every day we get rain.
		And I guess that's why they call it the rainy season.
		Michael Sunanda, welcome to the program.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Oh, hi, Art.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		So glad to have you here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand you are an expert on climate change, that sort of thing.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I'm based on energy because all the elements are working, and that's where I started learning that in the early 70s with Buckminster Fuller and nature and meditating and learning about the things that I had missed when I was in college and school before growing up and all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, then very directly and specifically, what do you believe is causing our climate here on Earth to heat up so rapidly in the last decade?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really was glad that a hogloon came on because of the, well, in the rumor in the 90s was called the photon belt.
		And I didn't really know much about that.
		So I was just watching.
		That's what I am as a watcher.
		I watch the patterns.
		And the patterns of heating started going into all the systems.
		The humans, the lore, the storms, the freezing, you know, all these patterns that are droughts, fires, just tremendously in the 90s.
		And I was living in Hawaii, and I was living on a volcano, so that was constantly pumping anyway.
		So the creation, the Earth power of nature is so obvious there.
		And then I start hearing that the planets are heating up.
		The sun is doing these solar flares, chronomass ejections.
		And James McKenney really helped me understand the dynamics of that because his so-called physics, plasma physics, is a little bit more spacious.
		It has more about nature rather than scientific departments that tend to miss 90% of what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And well, you mentioned that you listened carefully to Richard Hoagland, and he talks about not just our planet, but all of the planets in our system apparently warming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you obviously agree with that?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it has to do with the sun and the heliosphere, which is the total omnidirectional energy coming out of the sun.
		You know, and the sun goes around on an axis and all that.
		And it throws off, well, apparently, several times more energy now than it did.
		And then the other thing is the solar Cycle, the 1122-year cycle?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get to the cycle, but hold on just one second.
		You made a very radical statement.
		You said the sun is giving off several times more energy than it has in the past.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Can you prove that?
		Yes and no.
		Here's the thing about plasma.
		The sunshine is what we see.
		There's all the invisible...
		If you take the whole electromagnetic spectrum, which is extremely...
		And in science, the spectrum is God to the science, because it includes everything we can't see vibrationally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're suggesting the excess energy you talked about is excess energy that we cannot directly measure.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Or, well, sometimes we can measure plasma in different ways.
		They call it magnetic storms.
		They'll call it radiation, gamma rays.
		You know, they have all these different kinds of rays that they talk about.
		And each of those rays has a profile or an amount that's coming from the sun at any given time.
		And so I've been watching the Internet almost on a daily basis for the last six to ten years about these storms.
		And they do correlate to the season cycles and the syzygy, as Jim Berkel talks about, the sun and the moon.
		So I'm seeing all these patterns.
		And there is a lot we're not seeing and a lot that NASA is not telling us that they do measure.
		So your question was, oh, these things we can't measure.
		Well, yes and no.
		And also, psychically sensitive people can feel some of those vibrations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would, again, though, be energy, excess energy that we really cannot scientifically measure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're saying psychics and sensitives know what's going on.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but I also believe that NASA is measuring a lot of things that they don't and won't tell us about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that sort of an article of faith with you, or do you actually know that to be true?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I trust Hoagland on a lot of that.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		And I say it's more of a belief than proof because there is so much heating up going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm normally very much on your side of the argument.
		And I've certainly read story after story after story.
		Scientists believe this, or did previously believe this, and now have found the following to be true.
		And inevitably, it's a story about global heating or pollution or dead areas of the ocean or God knows what.
		It's been awful lately.
		But I'm going to give you, I want you to just sit back and listen to this.
		It's kind of the other side of the story, and I want you to respond to it, Michael.
		Here it is.
		Art, in response to your Saturday, July 22nd talk in the first hour about global weather changes and how the Earth is its warmest in 400 years, chew on this for a minute.
		The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years, plus or minus about 1%.
		With that perspective, this means that 400 years is equivalent to decimal 000000099% of its total current lifespan.
		There are 2.65 billion seconds in a 75-year-old lifespan.
		That's interesting, 2.65 billion seconds.
		So some simple math equates this 400-year span to about 262.5 seconds or about 4.5 minutes of an average American's lifespan.
		Can you imagine complaining that it's the hottest it's been in the last 4.5 minutes?
		An analogy, you just got hired for a job, and 4.5 minutes after you got there, someone says, hey, you've started the untimely demise of the company.
		I apologize, Art, but this kind of thinking really needs to be revisited and put in the perspective of scientific reality.
		In other words, he's saying, if you look at the entire lifespan of our globe, when we say it's the hottest it's been in the last whatever, we're talking about four and a half minutes of the Earth's time.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I hear those kinds of arguments.
		That was a little bit more detailed.
		And I call it scientes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scientes.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Scientees, yeah.
		And what it is, is taking things and dividing and dividing and dividing and dividing so that one is basically has written, is ignored.
		That argument there is all based on the abstract divisions of time, ignoring the patterns of nature.
		The literal, the trees, the wind, the undersea volcanoes, all these patterns we're going to talk about tonight that are in nature that are not precisely measured, and some are, are ignored by that kind of argument.
		Now, the person probably lives indoors in an air-conditioned room and gets to think about those things.
		And they're free to do that.
		It's America, you know, or anywhere on Earth.
		You can think about these things and rationalize that we are stupid because we believe in global warming or peak oil or climate crisis.
		Well, he's probably separated from nature.
		Maybe he goes on vacation and goes camping or something into the mountains.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, those are some pretty liberal presumptions.
		I don't know any of that to be true.
		I mean, what he says mathematically certainly is correct.
		It's roughly equivalent to saying, look how hot it's been in the last four and a half minutes compared to the entire...
		We've only been measuring since, what, the late 1800s or something.
		So it is a relatively short period of time.
		Nevertheless, if we look at the last few decades, my God, it's been going berserk.
		It's been hotter and hotter and hotter.
		There's no question about it.
		But it is a very short span of time in a literal sense that we're measuring, right?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, relatively speaking, it is.
		And I don't believe, actually, in the ages that Darwin started proposing in the 4 billion.
		I don't believe that.
		What I believe more is the data that's coming out of the nature itself, the ice core samples, the drilling, the forbidden archaeology where you go down layers hundreds of feet down and seeing what the strata are.
		I've been observing strata in nature for 10 years.
		Well, actually, I've been observing them since the 50s, but I've been understanding and seeking understanding of the strata of the layers that I see when I'm out traveling.
		I've traveled to a dozen countries and taken measurements in these various places and seen a lot of these patterns.
		I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, have you really?
		Give me an example.
		Where have you gone?
		Have you actually done ice coring, that kind of thing, or watched it?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		No, I've been doing, well, there's three levels that I've been making observations.
		One is permaculture.
		That is how people live traditionally, anciently, naturally, and in families on the land and sustainable.
		And I've been doing that for 15 years in Hawaii and Oregon.
		So I have some practice at that as well as observing like an anthropologist.
		And then the second is taking magnetic readings.
		I have a three-dimensional compass, which is on a gimbal.
		That is, the little needle goes side to side and up and down.
		Well, usually it only goes side to side, right, on a regular compass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		So this goes up and down.
		So it actually measures the vertical magnetic waves.
		Now, some really hard scientists would say these waves are theoretical.
		We can't prove it.
		Well, this little compass proves it on a constant basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, explain to me what you're getting.
		You say you have a compass which is three-dimensional.
		Now, again, folks, normally a compass just goes around.
		This one is capable of pointing up and pointing down at the same time.
		So, Michael, what are you observing?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I went to Australia to do permaculture and to observe the Earth grids.
		And I was at Byron Bay and Nimben and that area, which is very permacultury.
		And the compass points up in the southern hemisphere in Bali and in New Zealand.
		It points up to the north.
		Now, the needle always, well, not always, but usually goes toward the north.
		And that's what the science says.
		And since the 50s, they've been saying the magnetic waves go from the south to the north pole.
		And that was intuited by Christian Berkel a century ago when Einstein came out with the relativity theory.
		And he said somewhere in there that after that gravity bends light.
		Well, Berkeley proved it with his model, and he was ignored.
		But Einstein was honored and revered.
		But it took him decades to kind of prove it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me get this straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you're in the southern hemisphere, which I guess I am here in the Philippines, not sufficiently, huh?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		You're a few hundred miles north.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A few hundred miles north.
		Well, I'm pretty close, though.
		Would I get any effect at all if I had a three-dimensional compass here?
		Would I observe any of what you've seen?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Brilliant, brilliant.
		I love it.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me try this then.
		Let's stay with the compass for a second.
		You observe the compass points up.
		What does that mean to you?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, if you take the model of the Earth as a vortex and the magnetic waves going out of the South Pole, around the Earth, away out into space, hundreds, possibly thousands of miles out into space, and into the North Pole.
		And if you look like at that one of those graphics that I put up, you folks put up on the web for us, it shows the magnetic field of the Earth and how it doesn't show the direction.
		But other books, and I've been, actually I took a lot of physics in high school and college.
		So I know, I do as an aviation major in high school, so I studied this, but it wasn't holistic.
		So we're going into holistic now.
		So the waves go south to north.
		That means they go out of the South Pole and into the North Pole.
		Now this is literal.
		Out of the South and into the North.
		They have this magic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then obviously the company should be pointing north and not up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question is.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Up and to the north.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Up and to the north.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		And in the north, to the north, north of the equator or in the northern hemisphere, north and down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, then are you suggesting that the magnetic energy is sort of curved, that it comes out and then up and then over and then to the north pole, that it's kind of curved?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that the idea?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely curved.
		It's a torsosphere.
		This is known in science and geometry.
		If you look at any of the graphics that you've posted there for me, for us, you'll see the curves, the kind of curves that we're talking about.
		This is very, very, well, it's complex if you haven't seen it before.
		But the third...
unidentified		All right.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Okay, that's good.
		I'm glad you went there.
		Okay, what happens is the sun energy, which is, by all measures, has been increasing for the last 10 years.
		It peaked in the mid-90s with the solar peak, and it's still peaking.
		That is very unusual.
		Now, that may have only happened a few thousand years, a few million years ago, but it's peaking 10 years longer than it usually does.
		It's still peaking.
		I mean, it threw the cycle way up.
		So that energy, that solar energy that's coming into Earth is going into this magnetic field and is being pumped inside the Earth.
		And this is my theory.
		This is a little bit far out.
		But it's known that the solar energy is absorbed by the magnetic field.
		They call it the Van Allen radiation belt.
		It absorbs solar energy from frying the Earth.
		And so do the clouds and the atmosphere and so on.
		They all absorb solar energy at different levels and different frequencies.
		And then we get heat and light down here.
		So it's reduced down and heated up.
		All those spectrum of vibrations coming from the sun are reduced down and heating up.
		So we get the light and the heat here and other plasma things, radiations, x-rays, gamma rays, and so on.
		So those energies are going inside the Earth and causing the volcanoes to go off under the sea tremendously.
		Now, I've been reading reports are coming on a daily basis on the web that the volcano, this is scientific now, this isn't my wild theories, energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you're certainly correct that the Ring of Fire is extremely active.
		I've got several volcanoes near me right here in the Philippines that are active.
		And if you look around the Ring of Fire, it's obvious that there is a great deal of activity right now.
		That's what you're talking about.
		And then you're saying there's a lot more than that going on that we don't know about, and it's going On below the ocean, probably 90%.
		90%.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I'm guessing.
		90% of the volcanic surges, heating, eruptions, gases, venting, spreading of those fault mines, lava coming out.
		Can you imagine?
		Now, I've been with some Kilauea and we were having volcano eruptions.
		There were steady.
		They weren't the explosive things.
		Just how much the sea heats up when lava goes into the sea.
		Now, there's lava that's going into the sea at Kilauea right now.
		It's been going almost steadily since the middle 80s.
		And that's significant.
		That's the most active volcano in the world, steadily going since the 80s.
		That's almost 20 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you this.
		If what you suggest is occurring, and 90% of it is below the surface of the ocean, then this should be able to be measured by satellites.
		For example, ocean temperatures should indicate this is going on.
		And on your side of the argument, I've had Stan Dale on the program a number of times, and he has been saying for some years now that he's seeing measurements, heat measurements in the ocean that are completely anomalous.
		And he's detailed them, that certain spots of the ocean are getting hotter and hotter and hotter.
		Michael, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour here, and we'll be right back.
		I want to talk to Michael more about this because Standeo did kind of confirm a lot of what Michael's saying.
		And, of course, he is echoing also what Richard C. Hoagland has said many, many times on this program, that not just our Earth, but all of the planets in our system are beginning to unaccountably, or perhaps not so unaccountably, if you understand it.
		I'm sure he would say that it's got something to do with 19.5 and all the rest of that.
		But the fact is, things are getting warmer.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		It is.
		My guest is Michael Sunanda, and he's here talking about global warming and a lot more.
		And, you know, it's all very interesting, this information that some of it may be coming from our own globe, or it may be the sun, or perhaps even comets affecting the sun that then acts on our own earth in some manner to cause all of this.
		But there is a lot going on below the ocean.
		We ought to get hold of some people on that exact subject, and we will, as well as Michael.
		Michael's got a lot to tell us tonight.
		More of it in a moment.
		I want to be very careful here to separate the science From the metaphysical, and I understand that we're mixing them, and we're going to do that a little bit in the show, but I want to sort of call attention to when we're in the science part of it and when we're in the metaphysical part of it.
		When you say, Michael, that the sun is radiating a lot more energy, or many times the energy, that it was previously, that kind of puts me on red alert here because I don't know that that's measured.
		What I do know, Michael, is the following.
		I'm a ham radio operator, and I watched the sun cycles, and the sun cycles since about 1958 or so, Michael, have actually been on a decline.
		They've been going down in terms of the amount of energy for each 11-year cycle.
		Now, that said, we just hit a low, Michael, a real serious low in the number of sunspots and sun activity visibly, measurably, going on.
		However, in the last, oh, I don't know, several months, scientists have begun to write that we're in for one of the biggest sun cycles we've ever had, we've ever measured.
		In other words, a real whopper is on the way.
		So how does that stack up with your statement that we're getting a lot more energy from the sun?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, so what I'm kind of going on intuition at on this part of the invisible spectrum that's coming through and the gap of information that we're getting from NASA.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I believe that NASA is a PR campaign and that 90% of the information that they deal with is industrial and military and that we just don't know it and they won't Tell us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think NASA would hide this from us, Michael?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		It's been well known, actually, all the way back into the empires forever that they hide the most essential information because they call it a security, that's the current name, is a security risk.
		When other people, that is the so-called enemies, or even the public now, could find out about designs, and Fuller was clear about this, the designs that the industry and the military do, weapons, they would say security, weapons designs, the radiation spectrum is their way.
		That's what sonar is and radar and lasers and all of those things are radiation.
		And the sun's radiation, the amount of radiation coming from the sun, okay, they started putting solar panels in outer space in the 50s and 60s.
		So there's a way of harvesting that.
		And there's so many arguments.
		And I mean, I really trust a lot of what McKinney is saying about the plasma.
		But to me, plasma is the entire electromagnetic spectrum on all levels.
		And so I'm kind of intuitively, now, okay, you were saying about sunspot cycles going down.
		And I have been watching those relate to the moon, the moon cycles.
		And I'm kind of a lunatic.
		I do watch the moon, and I watch the moon cycles and how they relate to the sun and the planets and the earth energy and the rains and the weather and so on.
		So I'm just learning how these things are connected.
		I'm not saying that there's an absolute cause and effect.
		It's very interesting to connect these patterns.
		For example, if it's true that the volcanoes are heating up the seas and the science is starting to prove it, then this could have been going on for decades that they wouldn't tell us.
		For example, the Navy has been tracking.
		This goes on for even aliens and UFOs.
		The Air Force and the Navy both know the Navy on the sea bottom.
		They know what they've tracked the entire sea bottom.
		The Navy has.
		I mean, they have, they've been doing, that's part of what they do, these deep sea things with the atomic submarines and submersibles and stuff.
		They're tracking the sea bottoms.
		And there are now books on this.
		Well, there's not many books, there's not much published on the volcanoes going on under the sea.
		Kind of a scientific interest to know, like, certain fault lines and so on.
		But the amount of them, and you're right, they probably can track volcanoes under the sea with satellites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would certainly think so.
		The heat signature alone would certainly show up.
		And again, we've had guests that have measured increasing ocean temperatures and what are called hot spots, and from that predict weather patterns and all the rest of it.
		Because, of course, as goes the ocean, so goes our weather.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the currents of the ocean have been changing.
		And when they started telling us that they were changing in the 90s, they called it El Niño.
		Well, that was a cliche- that was a cliché, a catchword.
		More scientes.
		It's something you can measure.
		It's very big.
		It happens in cycles.
		But the cycles are getting all whacked out.
		They're going really chaotic.
		And this is a part of the geometry that I'll be getting into more, is that the geometry of chaos is the spiral fractals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But aren't weather systems, from our point of view, chaotic anyway?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		It depends on which dimension you're talking about.
		Now, I'm here in western Oregon.
		Let's just say that there's a fairly steady flow from the ocean east, and that the patterns go all the way across the United States and east.
		But within that fairly consistent isn't even the right word, it does change everywhere and almost constantly change.
		It doesn't change as much at night as it does in the day.
		But, you know, it does constantly change.
		So in permaculture, we call it a microclimate or a bioregion.
		That is your bioregion, your valley.
		I'm in a valley here.
		The next valley over is going to be different.
		So you're right, it is chaotic.
		You're right.
		Weather is chaotic.
		Well, that means that it's not very predictable.
		But I think part of why they can only predict three days or seven days at the most, and they have all this infinite knowledge from satellites and everything, is they just won't tell us.
		And the satellite, the guys who run the satellites, won't tell the weathermen, The people who print the things in the paper and the radio and the news, the weather people.
		They just keep them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		Of course, from satellite, you can see weather patterns that are moving, Michael, and you can, from that information, concoct a forecast.
		But you're suggesting that the people who are operating and analyzing the satellite information, understand that it means a very great deal more than the weatherman interprets it to mean.
		Is that correct?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it's part of the, it's been known back in the Empire Wars, Genghis Khan, you know, you go all the way back there, that weather is very key to wars.
		Even the American Revolutionary War.
		And it was quite key at that time, too.
		Weather is key to war.
		And anytime you think about that, you've got three or four militaries in the United States, huge militaries, each one gigantic, and they don't share much with each other.
		The Navy, you know, the Air Force and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, slow down and explain to me how weather is key to war.
		In other words, I certainly understand that if you're on the battlefield, weather is a key factor in what you do.
		But you seem to be suggesting that weather is actually a causative factor with regard to war.
		Is that correct?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it also has to do with farming, too.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I'd much rather go into the farming area and the food crisis that's coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, but when you make a statement like that, I want to try to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in what way is weather, in what way does it have an effect on war other than battlefield planning?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that, okay, there's battlefield planning, which has all to do with resources and where you get your water.
		You always have to have water.
		The wind, the temperature, the day, the night.
		When they do battles, they're always tracking when and where, the timing.
		They prefer the full moons for blatant attacks, and they prefer the dark of the moon for secret stuff.
		And these have all been used for centuries with the great warriors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no question about it, Michael, but I thought you were suggesting that.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		One more thing.
		One more thing.
		The food supply.
		The food supply is absolutely critical to a military group that are fighting and the local people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, logistics, but I'm not clear about that.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm talking about the local people, the food supplies of the local people themselves, as well as the military who have to feed themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but let me back up again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You seemed to be suggesting, when you made the original statement, that weather, other than logistically and for battlefield planning, that weather actually has an effect on war or is a causative factor for war.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Multiple causes.
		And I don't believe in the one-cause theory and thinking ever.
		I believe it's always multiple causes.
		So weather is one factor.
		Buckminster Fuller, who is my first teacher, and he learned about the World War game room, which they would put, you know, they call it the wall, the war board on the wall, this giant, huge map that's, you know, 50 feet across of war.
		And now the terrain is another thing.
		The water flow, this is all very permaculture also, like how you build a sustainable culture.
		That where the water flows, how deep it flows, how pure it is.
		For example, if you were doing an attack, you wanted to cut off the water supply for the enemy.
		You wouldn't have to even attack the enemy.
		You could just cut off their water supply.
		When they used to attack castles, that's what they would do.
		They would cut off their water supply.
		The water, the air, the fire, and the earth, which are the four primal elements, are essential for life processes, for everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it was the Army that said they would control the weather within another 50 years or something like that.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		No, they've been doing this for decades.
		It's nothing new.
		Yes.
		See, the thing about a lot of what they say they're going to do, I've been tracking predictions ever since I was into Fuller in the 70s.
		He died in 83.
		And he was also an empirist.
		In other words, his geodesic domes were used in the military first in the 50s in the Dew Lines up in the Arctic Circle.
		And you'll still see radar in geodesic domes.
		They were the first ones to use his domes in the industry in America.
		And then in the 60s, he became a peace person.
		He started spilling his guts and telling how nature works and how domes are part of the crystalline geometry of nature.
		And geodesic domes go all the way back to Da Vinci and the Greeks and that geometry.
		So it all connects.
		And the war game, the whole big war thing, he was one of the insiders who was running the U.S. accounting system, which was the accounting of all the resources of energy going through the United States and through the military and into Europe.
		And the Germans were into this big time, but they were really crazy.
		And the Americans were able to perfect it a little bit more.
		So now Fuller took it and brought it into a thing called World Game, which is peace gaming about energy flows.
		So what we're doing is we're tracking the energy flows, economic, transportation, food, water, air, weather, everything.
		We're tracking these relative to a given system, like, say, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you seem to suggest that we're doing more than tracking.
		You said we have been controlling.
		We've actually been controlling the weather now for how long?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Influencing the weather back started in the 40s that I'm aware of.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		And I know one of my teachers, Wilhelm Reich, was doing that in the 40s, and he started perfecting it in the 50s, and they arrested him and killed him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you believe we're controlling the weather?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what way?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the 40s, there was actually even some rumors of it in the 30s, but it was very experimental at the time.
		They would use chemicals in the sky.
		And there's probably, okay, I'm going to intuit on this, our guess, that they could use rockets.
		Oh, they've been doing this in China.
		I just got a report from China.
		They've been shooting off cannons of chemicals into the sky and causing rain in China.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, indeed, the Russians claimed they could cause a typhoon.
		I believe they offered to provide one for Taiwan or somebody or another.
		And it was not an offer that was taken up, but they claimed to have the technology to do it from satellite.
		Do you believe that?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's hard to know without any proof, but I've just got a really news report from China that they have been shooting cannons, military anti-aircraft cannons, you know, not land cannons, but with chemicals.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		With chemicals into the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		And people have been doing that for a few years.
		But they have to be expert.
		These people have to be trained.
		They have to be able to sense.
		It isn't a precise science.
		The weather has never been a precise science.
		It will always be too chaotic for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a little worrisome, nevertheless, if they're actually firing chemicals into the atmosphere to affect the weather.
		And I do know the Russians are experimenting with that.
		And I imagine the Chinese as well.
		Now, Brian in Columbus, Ohio, has a question for you.
		He asks, I heard someone recently call into question Al Gore's claim that sea levels could go up as much as 20 feet.
		And he wants to know what you think about that.
		I know you've seen the Al Gore movie.
		And what do you think about that?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I agree, but I think that the rate of it and the direction, now, there's something that when they say that the sea goes up millimeters and inches and so on, the scientists do and they measure it, they're measuring it in an area.
		And I don't believe in averages.
		So if you were saying 20 feet, I would have to ask a few questions before we could even get down to it, like where, how fast, what's the temperature, what's the currents, are the currents consistent or are they going chaotic like the Gulf Stream chaos that occurs in some of the currents, the El Niño?
		In other words, the islands are sinking in the South Seas.
		You can get reports on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have the reports.
		I've seen the footage, actually.
		There are some islands that shortly will actually disappear.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the waters have been going up feet, not inches, there.
		And it's particularly in the high tides.
		And it ruins the agriculture that's in lowlands because the salt water comes in under the water table and it ruins it.
		So there's chaos in this water rising frontier around the world, particularly in the southern hemisphere near the Antarctica, or the southern circle, the Arctic Circle there, and in the north, in the north, Alaska, in Siberia.
		We don't hear reports on Siberia because we don't get news from Russia.
		But it's been known for at least 10 years, maybe even 20 years, that on the northern shore of Alaska, villages have been getting swamped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there's a gigantic controversy going on.
		I suppose it's still going on, although I think most scientists now, Michael, agree that global warming is real.
		There's still a very great deal of disagreement about what's causing it.
		Some believe it is the hand of man.
		Some think it is natural cycles.
		I frequently thought both are possible.
		What's your view?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's absolutely both.
		And it's just a matter of where, you know, the relative amount of causation.
		Cause and effect has not been a popular theory in the West.
		They would call it stimulus and response.
		They always put different names on it and then ignore the natural data.
		Science has become departmentalized and indoors.
		And it's only in the last five years that actually weather science has really gotten focused on all these different dimensions of weather, nature, water, sea levels, and all of that.
		They still tend to overgeneralize about averages, which I don't believe in averages, because it's extreme up in the Arctic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's move a little into the metaphysical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the natural patterns of our Earth climate and the Gaia theory of cycles?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the Gaia theory started in the 70s when ecology went holistic, and ecology went from the farm to the whole world, to the whole atmosphere.
		But NASA had been tracking that since the 50s.
		So Gaia was not totally new to NASA, but they won't really talk about it.
		So when we're talking about the atmosphere, the layers of the atmosphere, and in the 50s they started tracking the stratosphere, the troposphere, the ionosphere, those different layers.
		So when we're talking about weather and the sky, it isn't just the sky or even here, it's the layers everywhere.
		And if you go to the mountains or the sea or the desert or the valleys or the prairies, the atmospheric functions differently because the layers are different in the different terrains.
		And then the oceans are pumping off a tremendous amount of moisture going into the sky.
		Like when I used to go traveling, and I'm glad I'm not traveling anymore with the stress and the burning oil and everything, is that there's a tremendous amount of cloud cover out in the oceans.
		And you traveled a lot.
unidentified		You see thousands of miles of clouds.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		It's astounding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
		There are indeed.
		Quick question.
		All of this, when you look at all of this, so much of what you've described already tonight, are we headed for some sort of catastrophic, from a human point of view anyway, a catastrophic change that would make life on planet Earth virtually not possible?
		I mean, is it that scary?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and no.
		In the 90s, because global warming was not extreme at the time, at least where I was, I was studying the cataclysms.
		I was studying Earth pole shift and that sort of thing.
		And there was a lot of fear and stuff.
		And I was doing more scientific, like Villikovsky.
		And Villikovsky was very scientific.
		People would say he wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Michael, we're very short on time.
		Yes or no to that kind of question is insufficient.
		So try and work up either a yes or a no for me after the top of the hour.
		Okay.
		From Manila in the Philippines, Southeast Asia, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. Indeed, here I found something very funny happened during the break.
		We've been having a little controversy here about how tall Erin is, and I'd measured her previously, and she's 4 feet 8 inches tall.
		Not really tall.
		She said, oh, no, no, no.
		I'm 4'9.
		I know I'm 4'9.
		So we just did another measurement.
		Indeed, she's 4'8.
		And she turned around and looked at me and said, would you please get me a growing Can you get me a growing pill?
		Growing pill.
		I don't think so, but if any of you know of growing pills out there, be sure and let me know.
		Michael Sunata is my guest, and we're talking about the Earth's climate, and we're talking about the heating that's going on, obviously a great concern for many, many people.
		And regarding a catastrophic sequence that would make inhabiting the Earth virtually impossible for human beings, an answer of yes and no with regard to whether that's coming or not is simply insufficient.
		So we'll try and press Michael in a moment.
		Once again, Michael Sonata.
		Michael, I'm getting some fast blasts from people in the audience who are listening to you, and they say things like, great subject, but not a good guest.
		He seems incapable of follow-through on answers to questions.
		And I think what's bothering the people in the audience, Michael, is that when I ask a question, you're coming back many times and saying, well, this is intuitive, or I'm answering you just intuitively, not with evidence, mind you, but with intuition.
		So let me try again on the catastrophic sequence question, because a lot of us have children, and a lot of people have grandchildren, and they're damn well concerned about what's going on with our Earth right now.
		They do see the warming.
		They finally notice.
		They know that changes are going on.
		So that's a pretty important question, whether all this is leading to a condition where humans can no longer live on the planet.
		Michael, it's not a yes and no question.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I said before that, and this relates to where you live.
		The answer is it depends on where you live and how you live.
		If you live in balance with nature in your bioregion and you're aware of where the weather comes from and what the 100-year extremes are, the 100-year extremes, see, there's no simple answers for these questions that you, in fact, let me try one that you can handle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said it depends on where you live and how you live.
		So let's try the where you live part.
		What parts of the earth are likely to be safe and what parts of the earth are likely to be not safe?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now this is an answer that could go on.
		I could speak for 15 minutes just answering that.
		So I'll try to crunch it down.
		Shorelines have been known and actually threatened since the 80s, the 70s.
		The catastrophic people have been speaking about the shoreline.
		But that depends on the ocean current and how high the waves are.
		Villakovsky has said that there was a few thousand foot high waves.
		If it's 20 feet in a place like, well, a lot of the places of the world will be underwater at 20 feet high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		New Orleans, for example.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, New York, places in California.
		I mean, just there's millions, what they even said, hundreds of millions of people that would have to migrate or die if it were raised 20 feet.
		But because it is variable where you live, even on the shore.
		Now, here's another one.
		Volcanoes.
		If you live on the downwind side of a volcano, that's going to be very bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying volcanoes are going to become very active?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I'm just saying if you live on the downwind side, see, it always...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, one day wind is coming from the north, and the next day it's coming from the south.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So there's chaos.
		So it has to do with water supply and how fertile the soil is where you live, and are you cooperating with the neighbors?
		And do you understand the local weather cycles?
		So if I sound like I'm incompetent, it's because nature is so chaotic, and we're asking questions that deal with the whole world, and I can usually deal with a bioregion very, very clearly.
		But when you go with the whole world, the variations are just extreme, and that's why scientists go to averages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, talk to me about any part of North America.
		You've already kind of covered the shoreline, and I can certainly understand that.
		If the warming continues, the shorelines are going to be dangerous places to be.
		What about other parts of North America, Michael?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mentioned the fertility and the water supply.
		And the water supplies have been going away, been disappearing.
		Water tables have been dropping in many, many places around the country.
		I've been hearing about this for 25 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're quite right.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		They have been dropping.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Because we've been having this, and this relates to peak oil, because we've been having dropping water tables and more energy is putting into pumping irrigation water, but if there is a cutoff of electricity or oil or the peak oil thing and the crash or the shortages, and they can't pump water, do you realize how devastating that would be to irrigation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		And let's go ahead and stick with peak oil for a moment.
		So you're saying with regard to a catastrophic occurrence, in some parts of the country, or the world, the answer is going to be yes.
		And in other parts, no.
		So I guess you do get away with a yes and a no there.
		With regard to peak oil, first of all, is it real?
		Have we reached or are we near peak oil?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's, again, it's multiple.
		The peak oil production of the United States was in the 70s.
		But then you would look at the refinery process as part of the peak oil.
		In other words, what's the maximum capacity we can refine oil?
		And what's the maximum capacity for extraction?
		And that was why in the 70s we had an oil crisis, because we became aware, not everyone, but We became aware that the oil that we had already peaked out on the amount of oil that we could extract from the United States from underground.
		But now there's another thing that says that they wanted to, the oil industry and the military wanted to have war with the Middle East, and they wanted to go over there and get oil.
		So it's possible that the scarcity of oil in the United States is not real.
		And I've heard reports on coast to coast of people who come on and say, oh, we capped an oil well in Texas.
		You know, that there's rumors that it's not a real scarcity.
		So I think that scarcity has always been a problem in the cities particularly.
		And if you go back in the empires, scarcity, because cities are dependent on importing things.
		But if there is a peak oil, if it is true that we're maximum on importing, extracting, and refining oil, and the price is going to keep going up, it's very possible that they've been just jacking the price for profit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Michael, let's forget about the refining capacity for a moment.
		We know we've got problems there, and let's just concentrate on what's in the ground, what scientists know about what's in the ground.
		Have we already passed peak oil from an extraction point of view?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, the information I'm getting from many sources is there's a huge amount of supply of deposits of oil in the ground in many places in the world, in Alaska, in the United States, in Canada.
		You know, just there's tremendous in the Middle East and in Venezuela.
		I mean, there's undiscovered, there's a tremendous amount.
		I think there's way more oil than we could ever extract.
		And the Thomas Gold theory is that the Earth is actually making oil, and there's a really, scientifically, there's a strong case for that.
		The people who tell us that there's not enough, that there's a scarcity, and they whip up their scientists, are the industry people, the same people that put out PR for the industry.
		And those people have been promoting their own self-interest profits.
		Ralph Nader's been raving, raging about this since the 60s.
		This is nothing new.
		The scarcity of almost any resource is part of the industrial profiting game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure I agree with that, Michael.
		I say I'm not sure I agree with that.
		I've seen any number of stories that indicate that we either are at peak oil extraction now or, as you pointed out, might have been back in the 70s now.
		We know roughly how much oil there is in the Mideast, I think we do anyway.
		And there have been some new discoveries.
		But I'm not one of those people who believes that kind of like the good and plenty horn, that it just keeps flowing back in.
		We extract it, and it keeps flowing back in.
		Do you have any evidence to support that theory?
		You said you believe it.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, Thomas Gold published a book in 99 called A Deep Hot Biosphere.
		And you said that the kind of cornucopians was Kunisler's Law and Emergency pointed that out, that people just keep expecting more.
		And of course, if you are a dreamer and you think that there's an infinite supply, then but I'm not in that dreaming thing.
		I had no opinion about this until except for the scarcity, the false scarcity thing.
		And again, the resources in the cities are based on a false scarcity, the market, supply, and demand.
		So I don't really know.
		I haven't got out in the oil fields and tested this, but I know, for example, they were burning millions of barrels of oil in Kuwait.
		They were burning it.
		Why?
		They never give the real reasons for these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the real reason was war.
		No, no, no, I mean, the Iraqis set the oil fields on fire.
		That's what you're talking about.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe in simplistic answers.
		Everything is multiple.
		And when you're dealing with war, the real reasons are usually the hidden reasons, and the PR, the disinfo reasons, are the reasons they give the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, fill me on on what the real reason was.
		I thought the Iraqis were very angry that we beat the hell out of them and set the oil wells on fire as they left.
		Now, do you know something else?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that the U.S. set some of them on fire.
		I just wanted to get back to the scarcity issue and the question that you were bringing about the deep hot biosphere.
		It's easy to discount a radical theory before there's much agreement on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're right.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		And Thomas Gold was a brilliant scientist who had these radical theories on a few other subjects, astronomy and so on, that was discounted and doubted for decades, and then evidence finally went to support it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I absolutely have an open mind, Michael.
		I really do have an open mind.
		So if you have some sort of scientific proof that these oil wells really are refilling, I'm listening.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm not saying that the oil wells are refilling.
		I'm looking at the possibility that Earth is making oil in various places.
		And we need a comprehensive analysis of this from the people who are out in the field, and we need it honest.
		And I don't believe the oil industry is ever going to give us an honest answer.
		The most honesty I've heard is through the coast-to-coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I might agree with you on that point.
		I think that the oil industry is no doubt.
		I mean, they're a profit-motivated industry, obviously, so they take advantage of what's There's no question about that.
		I have no doubt about that in my mind.
		It's just this peak oil thing, and whether we really are pumping the second harder to get half of the oil out of the ground or whether there's virtually a limitless supply.
		That's a pretty big difference there.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, and I like your drama, the way you present that, because the limitless supply.
		Okay, go to the long emergency Kuhn Slurs, and thank you for putting that up last year.
		It was a brilliant show that you've done that.
		He has a brilliant argument, and I look at it as an energy supply system Of the suburbs.
		The suburbs are sucking energy maybe twice as much as the cities per space, you know, per acre, per person.
		And this has to do with a carbon footprint.
		And the carbon footprint now is being measured per household, per person, boils, boils, fever, barrels of oil per year or per day.
		And then another measurement is acres of land per person per day or per year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's an obvious reason for that.
		I mean, if you're in the suburbs, then you are not easily supportable with all the various services, electricity, whether it be natural gas or whatever energy source you're using has to be brought to you as opposed to your being in a city and it just being available to you as it is many others in a close-knit area.
		So it's very easily delivered, very easily distributed, more efficiently distributed.
		So all of that makes sense.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and we're spoiled tremendously.
		I was a kid.
		I was raised on the sugar tit.
		I was raised to eat sugar and all the junk that was being imported on a tremendous...
		Oh, everything is coming.
		We've got anything we want.
		We can pig out.
		We can have plastic.
		We can have TV, radio.
		New technology is coming in every year.
		We're in utopia, driving utopian paradise of technology.
		There is an end to this.
		It's this one-century bubble.
		And it takes a really long study and questioning one's value system.
		And that's why a lot of people, they would just rather argue and say, oh, it doesn't matter.
		And then they just ignore it.
		It's very easy to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is very easy to do it, Michael, because I'm in Southeast Asia.
		I'm about an hour and a half by plane from China.
		And if you were to see what was going on in China right now and in a whole lot of the East here, it would scare the hell out of you.
		They would like to have everything that we have in the U.S. And by that I mean a car or two in the garage, a nice television, paved roads, you know, all those little things that we've become used to.
		But if they get them, and we're talking here about billions of people, Michael, I don't think it's sustainable.
		I don't think that the earth can sustain that kind of pollution.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		It's true.
		And there are radical changes in China, but they're probably relatively small, like putting grass and having grass on top of buildings, you know, growing lots of rooftop growing things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can assure you they're small, Michael.
		If you were to take a quick trip over to Bangkok and walk down the street, every breath you take would hurt your lungs.
		There's so much pollution.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I was in Bangkok.
		I know those cities are unlivable.
		Lima, Mexico City.
		And the toxic level, this gets into the health issue.
		This is something that's been ignored totally by the peak oil and the energy people is the toxic effect of all of these pollution is devastating our health.
		And that's why the health industry is exploding and why the alternative health movement is exploding also because the pollution that we're heating up our environment with is making people sick from acids.
		And we're talking all kinds of acids, hundreds, thousands of different kinds of acids, but particularly in the food and the air and the water, are making people sick.
		And people say, well, I'm getting sick.
		I don't know why.
		Well, if they would just look at the environment and look at it from a chemical or acid, alkaline balance point of view, you could see that that's partly what's making people sick.
		Also being indoors all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure there's something to that.
		One of the questions that you wanted to be asked, I'm just going to ask straight out.
		It's very interesting.
		I hope I don't get a yes and no to it.
		And it is, what is government doing to either prevent or progress global warming wars?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, the peace movement has been very weak and very small compared to what it was in the 70s.
		The war is a war to consume, and it's a war of consumption.
		It's a war to use more resources, to capture more resources, to burn waste.
		That's been another effect that we haven't looked at.
		For example, the government, that is all of the Congress and the departments, have not analyzed the effect of all of our military, all of our military, on the environment that they're in and all of the oil that they consume and the oil that they burn and all the electricity that they use.
		So it's a whole system analysis.
		So what I'm saying is that the government is doing a lot to waste and they're doing almost nothing to analyze, let alone cut back.
		I mean, you first have to analyze how much energy is being used and what efficiency is.
		Efficiency went out the door under the Reagan.
		In the 70s, we started getting into efficiency.
		What is efficiency?
		People start turning off their lights at night.
		Now we're burning twice as much as we were in the 60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, it was a political initiative well ahead of its time, unfortunately.
		If we had had the Carter years about now or at the beginning of the Bush years, things might be very different.
		But people simply were not ready for it at that time.
		What can we do, Michael, to reduce our energy demands that are driving, at least in part, this global warming?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's three levels.
		One is to feel the effects in the environment that you're living in, to see how much waste is occurring, to look at the efficiency, the input and the output, to analyze energy audit, to analyze how much you're spending that's a waste, to evaluate what is the efficiency in home and business and schools and so on.
		This has not been done, and it's been totally ignored for 25 years, with people being proud of wasting.
		The next is to start conserving energy every way possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Conserving.
		All right.
		Michael, listen, hold tight.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		I think that we do have to do that.
		We do have to look at the efficiency of what we're doing and then begin to cut back a little bit.
		But again, balance that statement Against knowledge that in the rest of the world, they're progressing very rapidly toward consumption on a level that you don't even want to know about.
		I mean, it's just if you take a trip to China and see what's going on right now, it would scare you to death.
		And I'm really serious about that.
		I did, and it did scare me to death.
		And it's multiplied several times over now.
		All right, from Manila in the Philippines, Southeast Asia, I'm Mark Bell with Michael Sunanda.
		We'll be right back.
		Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever the case may be, from Manila in the Philippines, where the rain, thankfully, gently is falling today and not in a typhoon manner, but just sort of gently.
		What we're going to do is change things up a little bit.
		I'm going to open the lines right now for Michael Sunanda and let you ask questions for the next half hour or so because I'm very curious what you, the audience, would ask Michael about all of this and what he's had to say so far.
		And then we'll go into open lines during the last hour of the program.
		One of the questions that follows up, I'm not sure, makes sense in the case of Michael because he said one of the questions is how does natural energy, no correction, how and why is our century of cheap oil, gas, and coal doomed to run out?
		Now, if I was listening carefully to the last segment, and I think I was, he essentially said it isn't going to run out, unless he means the oil companies are sort of going to cause it to run out, which wouldn't make sense if they still have supply.
		So we will ask that question in a moment.
		And in the meantime, if you would like to line up and ask a question, Michael is all yours.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM Michael, I am quite curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm sorry.
		I caught you busy there.
		Michael, I am quite curious.
		One question further on down the line here is, how and why is our century of cheap oil and gas and coal doomed to run out?
		Based on your earlier statements, that doesn't seem like a logical question you'd want asked.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I'm attempting to do is to get us to analyze how much we're using and how wasteful it is.
		And just based on the amount of waste that we're creating and the pollution that we're creating and the future for our children that we're creating with the amount of waste.
		I mean, the worst case would be nuclear waste.
		The most constant would be the air pollution that just blows away.
		But in some cities, it hangs in there.
		So basically, I'm saying that it's doomed because the cities are becoming unlivable.
		And that for healthy people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, but that's not the same as doomed to run out.
unidentified		Well, okay, I overstated it there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I'd like to do is go to the phones and see what the audience wants to ask you.
		So let's do that.
		What card line?
		You're on the air with Michael Sunada.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Brino from Northern California, and I'm so glad to be on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
		And the reason I'm calling is I heard Michael say that he live in Northern California, up in Oregon.
		I'm in Northern California, and I downloaded your map looking at the global view of the heat wave and that sort of thing, the arid regions that may face more drought is what it's called.
		What I'm wondering is, what is your prediction on the areas on the globe that are going to be the most livable in the times to come?
		Hopefully, Art Bell's area would be included in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The most livable areas.
		Michael, you've already described the coasts as not particularly livable.
		What would be good?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, in permaculture, we look at the fertility of the soil.
		So that would mean valleys with soil, valleys with good water.
		And if you're wherever you live, you need to look at your watershed and see if it's sustainable.
		And sustainable meaning not just five years or ten years in the future, but a minimum of 20 to 100 years.
		And that's what sustainable is.
		Our vision of the future has become shrunk down to five or ten years of future.
		So it's, okay, then the weather.
		Then where does the weather come from?
		Is it chaotic?
		What is the 100-year extremes in the areas where you are?
		Now, in the last cataclysms, there was 750 BC, 1500 BC, and 10,000 BC, and those are documented, extremely documented.
		The high fertile valleys, and I say not extremely high, but in some places in the Andes and in the Himalayas and in the Alps and places where people have been living in these high fertile valleys for many centuries, the same way, the same permaculture sustainable life.
		Well, I don't expect suburbs to become permaculture sustainable.
		But if you want to survive, then you learn how to grow food and you go to a place where the ground is fertile and you can share with your neighbors.
		So this may mean if there is a crash, and I don't know if there's going to be a crash because it's been predicted now, you know, on and off for 30 years, that the people who are cooperating, who are simple or natural or living in balance with their bioregion, are the ones that are going to enjoy the changes that are coming.
		It's a complete reversal of attitude about new changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're now on the air with Michael Sunanda.
unidentified		Hi, is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be you, sir.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Enjoying hearing you back on again.
		Thanks for the technology.
		I heard Michael mention earlier, and he may have answered this in discussions with you, but I missed it evidently.
		I heard him mention Buckminster Fuller, and I'm wondering if he could explicate for me what his connection with the late Mr. Fuller is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, your connection to Buckminster.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, in 1971, I was getting a master's degree in family counseling at the UVO, and I was starting to meditate and become aware of greater things and bigger things.
		The peace movement was on, but I wasn't a protester.
		And I started reading fuller, and it was enlightening.
		And so it started making sense of all the science that I had taken for at least 10 years before that.
		And the science started seeing how it was separate.
		So I started looking at nature as energy, and I went back and did three weeks of world game, eight hours a day seminar, like a graduate seminar, for three weeks of eight hours a day.
		It's Cardondale, Illinois, where he had two domes set up.
		And it's been one of the most radical places in the Midwest.
		There are very few in there.
		And it's also Vortex, an Earth Vortex.
		Well, I really love the Earth Vortexes, and we have them in Oregon and mountains and so on.
		So that launched my career.
		Then I went back to Eugene.
		I did 52 programs, radio programs about Bucky Fuller called I Seem to Be a Verb.
		And that played in Eugene and San Francisco and a few places in Portland and Seattle.
		And then I met Fuller in 72.
		We became friends.
		But he was a very distant kind of person, so we couldn't really be friends.
		And I was a hippie then, and so the hippies really loved him.
		The whole Earth Catalog was he was the godfather of the whole Earth Catalog because he brought whole systems to us.
		We didn't know what a whole system was before.
		We were all into departments and schools and everything, which they still are.
		So that's why school people, people who are educated that way, they can't understand what I'm talking about.
		It's whole systems.
		I realize that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you actually met him, but you did not know him as a close friend.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		No, no one knew him as a close friend unless he was doing a project with you in his place.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		He was on the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm sorry to interrupt.
		Good enough.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Michael Sunada.
unidentified		Hey, how are you doing?
		This is Jeremy.
		I'm in Gresham Morgan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, thanks for all the years there, Art.
		I appreciate it.
		And I don't mean to sound irritable or to be rude, but I would like to know from your guest, Michael Sunada, if it's kind of a two-part question, if global warming, you know, one way or the other, if it's affected him personally and his family, and if he sees a serious solution to this problem, I'll list off the air.
		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michael, has it affected you personally, and do you see any solution?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, actually, in the 70s, I started living extremely simple.
		And in the 80s, I started camping out all the time, and I moved to Hawaii so I could live outside and live on the land.
		And I've lived in many different families and communes and so on.
		So I've had a lot of experience in growing food, living simple, camping out all the time.
		I bicycle all the time now.
		Right now, outside in the backyard of my friend's house sitting on the ground.
		So I really love nature and I'm devoted to this, and it's a spiritual path for me.
		I do Qigong every day, and it's affected my family, but I've lived in many different families, and we're just constantly learning how to do it more simple, more like we make kefir out of raw goat's milk, raw cow's milk, and I've gone back to eating meat, although I was a vegetarian for 20 years, and then I went to India, and things reversed.
		So I'm into reversing patterns and reversing my belief systems.
		I don't have absolute beliefs about these things that I'm learning about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's kind of what I get from listening to you, Michael.
		It seems as though you've taken a great deal of what you've heard here on Coast to Coast from various guests and sort of synthesized it, and what you're bringing us today is kind of a – like kind of a belief system or your intuitive feeling based on a lot of what you've heard on Coast.
		Is that fair?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but I didn't really get into Coast until Y2K came on.
		And I was thankful for Y2K because it brought sustainability and recycling and energy.
		You know, it was a little movement like we're seeing the beginning of, again, now, back to the land.
		And it was the biggest back to land movement since the 70s, the Y2K thing.
		So I haven't really been into Coast to Coast just in the last six years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you did mention quite a number of guests that we've had on here.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		I like them, and I trust them somewhat.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		But I've been doing that for 20 years, 25 years before I met Coast to Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Michael Sunada.
unidentified		Hi, Mike.
		Mike, I kind of agree with you on the oil deal, that oil's not running out.
		One of the reasons is if most Christians kind of pass this up, in the Bible in Revelation, it talks about the four horsemen, and one of them is famine and all, but they're also admonished not to touch the oil or the wine.
		So I don't believe that there is really an oil shortage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's a faith-based statement.
		Michael, does any of your belief regarding oil come from religious conviction?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm looking at people's behavior and using it unconsciously.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Most of these consumption-waste patterns are unconscious, and people aren't conscious of the sources and the results of what they're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's certainly true.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Michael Sunata.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, this is Kathleen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Kathleen.
unidentified		Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I just wanted to say that I'm very happy with our Missouri Botanical Gardens, our glass dome that he was speaking of, and that I understood that it could take 500 mile-an-hour winds, and that it was very energy efficient, and that there's a lot of books written from the Appalachians about living off the land.
unidentified		And I was hoping that you could give some ideas of maybe local governments and groups that could get together to find more green answers to our programs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's certainly a fair question, Michael.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I'm very thankful for that question.
		In Eugene, Oregon, and Portland, and some towns in California, and a very few in Washington, the county and the cities are doing things.
		One is a stormwater management program, where they're watching the entire watershed of how the water circulates and how much is being recycled and used and wasted and channeled in different ways.
		So that's one of the bioregional things.
		And the other would be the air.
		We have laws that prevent us from controlling electricity and toxic chemicals in our towns.
		So we need cooperative groups in the neighborhoods and in the community and also with the government.
		You can go to the county and you can see if you can find somebody in the county or the city government or rarely in the state government, although there are a few sometimes departments in the planning department that's aware of efficiency.
		Fuller's domes are the most efficient structure other than maybe a teepee.
		And I've stayed in teepees before and you're someone I'm going to go to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's talk about the domes for just a moment.
		I'm hearing something in the background there.
		What is it about the domes that specifically makes them so efficient, Michael?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're based on a sphere of triangles.
		And it goes back to the platonic solids.
		And Da Vinci also did a few things with designs of platonic solids.
		The triangle is the strongest structure in the universe.
		You could argue that a sphere, like a real sphere, is very strong.
		But nature doesn't make many real spheres.
		Nature makes more egg-shaped things.
		And tetrahedrons, if you look at tetrahedrons, which is your basic three-sided pyramid, not a four-sided pyramid, a three-sided pyramid with a base, it is by far the strongest structure.
		And if you look at a building that's square, they're not inherently strong.
		They have to put triangles in the corners to make them strong.
		So your corners of the buildings are buttressed by triangles and tetrahedrons.
		And the dome itself is like a bubble that's very rigid, but yet will somehow flex when the wind or earthquakes hit it.
		And that's why the military got it in the 50s and have been using it.
		And the hippies have been using these structures.
		They're pretty much against building codes in the cities.
		There are a few cities.
		Actually, they did bring the DOMS up to code in Eugene and a few cities where they were very aware.
		But the people have to be aware and willing to analyze what is efficiency and what is efficiency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not that that's a minor matter.
		It's a big matter.
		But anything that goes beyond that?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, the use of indoor spaces as a round thing is more like a collective thing.
		It's a sharing together of our cooperative energy in a space.
		You can divide a dome inside.
		It depends on how big the dome is.
		They sell domes.
		I've built them.
		They sell, but small ones.
		They sell them from 12 feet in diameter to 75 to 100 feet in diameter.
		And the bigger ones usually have rooms inside of them.
		But you can hang things from them.
		You can do all kinds of creative things inside them.
		They're much more flexible than these square buildings.
		Usually when square buildings are put up, they're wasting.
		They're wasting a tremendous amount.
		The building codes built in waste.
		So do the sanitation departments.
		People would say, well, you're a revolutionary.
		Well, if you just analyze the efficiency, let alone the spiritual bankruptcy of building everything in squares.
		Nature doesn't make squares.
		Fuller brought this out.
		He finally exposed the square mentality.
		The matrix is square.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Square mentality.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Michael Sunanta.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		This is Sharon.
		I'm from Minneapolis.
		And I just have you.
		Nice to talk to you.
		Nice to hear your voice again.
		All right.
		And good to hear you, Michael.
		Thank you.
		Have you ever heard of the book Black Gold Stranglehold?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've heard of it.
		And it's probably more bad news about this than I really want to go into.
		I've been more focusing in learning, teaching, permaculture than bicycling and so on.
		And I would guess that it's an expose of the horrible things that the oil industry and the military have been doing.
unidentified		I believe it is.
		I haven't gotten it yet.
		They've got it for me at the library.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's nothing too horrible for us to go into, Michael.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it that's suggested in this book that would be too awful to talk about?
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here's one of the big lies of the oil industry.
		They said in the 50s, when the Green Revolution was cranking out oil-based poisons into farms, and it still is, that carbon production, carbon dioxide in the air and burning fuels and so on, is good for growing things.
		Well, that was a very short-term laboratory, not natural research data that they got.
		So when you get research data, you really need to look at the source of who's taking the data.
		Is there anything natural about the system, or are they creating the system and then measuring it to prove their point?
		So the point is that carbon dioxide in excess can help plants grow, but only in very limited conditions.
		And then you have to measure the toxins.
		Well, you don't have to, but I mean, I would rather look at how pure something is than some laboratory to try to prove, lab research, to try to prove a point that it's good to consume that stuff and burn it up.
		And that was, okay, it's just a matter of looking at all the information that you have and then deciding rather than going into it with a belief that it's good or bad.
		I think nature is better than petrochemicals myself.
unidentified		I see you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I would have to agree with that.
		However, our economy is sustained presently by petrochemicals, and since we did not really begin to do anything about that in the 70s, at least nothing that was sustained, Michael, we're going to have to continue to get our hands on petrochemicals until a real, viable economic alternative comes along.
		I'm sure you would agree with that.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes and no.
		People can move to the country and go into permaculture, and there's not many people who are going to do that.
		Maybe 1% would be a lot.
		But there's movements for that, and there's a lot of cooperatives.
		If you go on the web and you look up climate crisis solutions or the climate crisis coalition and all these different names, peak oil and so on, there are local movements in most of the cities in the U.S. and some extremely, mostly where there's young, idealistic people who are aware and are still learning, because most of the adults are happy consuming and they quit learning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Michael, we're going to have to break it off at this point.
		I want to thank you for being on the program and bringing us your point of view about all of this.
		So you take care, my friend.
		You don't have a book to plug, so we won't do that, but I'm sure you will eventually.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do have one thing that you might want to look at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very quickly.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		It's on my website.
michael sunanda ▲ ● ▼		There are three free permaculture books on my website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we've got a link to it.
		On that note, we've got to go.
		Take care, buddy.
		Indeed, from Manila, Philippines, Southeast Asia.
		How are you all doing?
		It is squarely a miracle that I'm able to be on the air from Manila in the Philippines.
		I mean, I'm literally on the other side of the world.
		Do some measurements, as I have, and you'll find it's 7,000, 8,000, 9,000 miles to one point or another in the United States.
		It's a long way away.
		So if any of you have questions about this part of the world or about anything we've discussed tonight, we're about to go to Open Lines, grab a line, and any subject is certainly fair game.
		Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
		Don't forget, tomorrow night, we're going to have Dr. Stephen Greer here, who will clear up an alleged statement he made about SETI contact and then John Hoag.
		And in view of what's going on in the Middle East right now, that's certainly something you may have comments on.
		It's appropriate to have John Hoag on.
		I'm Art Bell, and in the nighttime, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		By the way, that reminds me.
		I heard in the first hour of the show that Denny's actually did sponsor the first hour of the show, and I think that's the first time that anything like that has been done.
		All right, here come an hour of open lines.
		Anything you want to talk about, literally anything, is fair game.
		Here we go.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing well indeed, sir.
unidentified		I'm Will, and I'm in Miami, and I'm very curious about that thing you were talking about earlier about Nelson Mandela, how you and a bunch of your callers had thought that he had died.
		I'm curious because the same thing happened to me with three other celebrities, Ricky Ricardo, Andre Segovia, and George C. Scott.
		Now, I actually saw it on a news report on television.
		Is that how you guys saw it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		I can't honestly tell you that I recall how I thought I knew that.
		It was probably from some report or honest God, sir, I don't know.
		But here's what I think.
		And this is pretty wild stuff, but I think that occasionally there are little slips in time that something becomes manipulated, and then people have vague memories of The way something was, except that it changed.
		And that's not a satisfactory way to answer your question.
		But something went back in time, or something affected the time stream, and something changed.
		And then people remember something that actually, in the present timeline, really did not happen.
		I'm trying to confused way of trying to get it.
unidentified		Do you?
		Yeah, because I saw news reports on all those three people that I told you about.
		And then a year or two later, Andrei Segovia comes in concert to my town.
		Or I see another news report where the celebrity actually dies, and then it's confirmed.
		I'm talking about a span of like one or two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I know.
		I know.
		It's very bizarre.
		Thank you.
		Listen, I don't have an explanation beyond what I just tried to articulate, and that is that I do believe that occasionally history, or time, if you will, is in some way manipulated.
		And we all, or many of us, think that we know one thing, and then something else turns out to be the case.
		And we all sort of go, oh, gee, I thought I remember the following happened.
		Well, it didn't happen, or at least current history says it did not happen, but many, many people believe the same thing.
		Now, what does that come from?
		I have no idea.
		Apparently, it comes from some, and it's only my guess, or as Michael would have said, his intuitive feeling, that something happened to change what was.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Idaho.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And I just wanted to say thank you for being on the air.
		I've enjoyed your program now for about five years.
		And I just think that moving to Manila was a great move for you.
		And I wish the best for you.
		I just wanted to mention, do you think that the Middle East, the thing that's going on in the Middle East, in Israel, and the heat of the sun, do you think that there is a correlation between the two?
		And do you think the effects are brought on because of everybody thinks that they have a solution for Israel and nobody seems to be able to find one?
		And I was wondering if you think there's a direct correlation with that and the heat of the sun as far as drought is like similar to Bible times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I wouldn't venture to say whether there's actually a connection between what's going on in the Middle East and the heat of the sun.
		I think that as times in the world become more stressful, and I can read story after story after story about the world becoming hotter, about the oceans having more dead zones in them, and about the air pollution and all the rest of the things that are going wrong in the world right now.
		And I can certainly imagine that as there is more stress on the world, oh, in terms of getting energy, for example, that that's going to bring about wars.
		With respect to what's going on in the Middle East right now, I understand what Israel is doing.
		I understand why they're doing what they're doing.
		It seems to me that it boils down to, I don't know, kind of like self-defense.
		I mean, if somebody's lobbing rockets at you, eventually you lob back or you do something to try to stop them from lobbing rockets at you.
		And so that's what Israel is doing.
		Now, whether this will escalate beyond anybody's control into something really awful, I have no idea.
		The Bible tells us that will be the region and that will be the place.
		Whether or not it's the time right now, I do not know.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Aloha, Art, from the Big Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Big Island.
unidentified		Hey, you sound so much more relaxed from the Philippines than you found yourself a niche.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think I have.
unidentified		So I want to thank you for coming back to us.
unidentified		We all missed you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's very kind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Basically, I'd like to discuss what I think is an undervalued potential solution to the global warming, the petrochemical, and the pharmaceutical problems of our planet.
		And that being, of course, medical marijuana.
		I'm the executive director of the medical marijuana program on the Main Island and helped legislate our program in Honolulu.
		And we're in our seventh year now of treating chemotherapy patients and AIDS and glaucoma and chronic pain with marijuana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you a victim of one of these diseases yourself, sir?
unidentified		Yes, I'm a partial disability from a broken neck.
unidentified		So I've been using it for pain, and the side effects also help me with my asthmatic condition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		I see.
		Well, all right.
		I'll certainly comment on it.
		I think that marijuana, and I've said this over the years, is far less damaging to a person physically than is, and that's not to say that it's not damaging.
		It's like smoking.
		You absolutely know it's not good for your health.
		But in terms of the damage to an individual, I think it's not as serious as alcohol.
		It may have some benefits from a health point of view.
		That's being argued all over the place right now.
		I think that law enforcement would find far better, more efficient things to do with their time than hunting down somebody who suffered a broken back or a broken neck or has cancer and is using marijuana and believes it to be helpful.
		They could use their law enforcement time for far better things than hunting down people like that.
		And I'll leave it at that.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just Spiffy.
unidentified		Hey, I wanted to talk to you about the current fuel prices and who has purchased our gas stations in the last 10 or 15 years.
		I was kind of wondering what was Going on with the transition.
		And after 9-11, a friend of mine owns a station, and he was kind of miffed by the prices raised in town when he didn't raise his prices because he said they raised the price off of supply and what it costs to replace what's in the tank.
		And who's changing the prices on the signs?
		The people that bought the gas stations over the last 10 or 15 years.
		I wonder if it's time to get our stations back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That might be a very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I always also thought that the prices were raised per tank, you know, whatever a tank of gas in the ground cost them.
unidentified		Right, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and then the next one would come along and they'd raise the price or lower it depending on what the cost was, right?
unidentified		Exactly.
		And it seemed like after 9-11, the people that purchased the stations over the last 10, 15 years just seemed to increase the prices over any little political whim that comes along.
		And I kind of wonder if that's not what's going on.
		Who's changing the prices on the signs?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The screen tells me you're in Wisconsin.
		Is that correct?
		Correct, Art.
		What are your prices like in Wisconsin right now for regular and premium?
unidentified		About $3.12 for regular, $333 for premium.
		Diesel's going for $309.
		And the other price I wanted to talk to you about was the sulfur additives in diesel, I guess, are being removed as of August 1st.
		So diesel, people that are running diesels are going to have to add additives.
		And I wonder what that's going to do to drive the prices of consumer goods up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, I don't know.
		It's already out of control.
		When you're talking about the kind of prices that you just quoted, and I must tell you, everything over here is in liters, and I'm trying to recall now, but I believe it's between 36 and I should have paid more attention, and 40-something.
		I'll have to take a look at the prices over here, but I think I worked it out, and it's very consistent with the prices in the United States.
		It may be a little lower here in the Philippines, but not very much lower.
		So fuel prices worldwide are pretty much the same.
		And the only difference, of course, is the amount of taxation applied to the fuel, because everybody's buying fuel from the same source, pretty much, the spot fuel market.
		The Philippines, the country I'm in now, imports a very great deal of its oil.
		In fact, a higher percentage than the U.S., I believe in the U.S., you're now importing 70 or around 70%, and it's probably in the high 80s or low 90s here.
		That may affect prices to some degree.
		In other words, the homegrown stuff may be a little bit less.
		But generally, the world is fairly stable in terms of fuel prices.
		What's driving it right now is my neighbor over here, China.
		They really are consuming a very great deal of fuel, and the more they consume, the more it's going to cost because it is all supply and demand, at least supposed to be.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
		This is Stephen.
		I'm calling from Poughkeepsie, New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I wanted to talk to you about the future Fatima-type miracle at Garabandel, Spain.
		The miracle will take place in either March, April, or May, honor between the 8th and the 16th.
		We do not know the year, but Conchita Gonzalez-Keenan will announce the miracle eight days in advance.
		Padro Pio had a connection to the miracle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, hold it for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just explain to me how you know this.
unidentified		It's a Catholic apparition site.
		The Virgin Mary appeared there from 1961 to 1965.
		She gave two messages to the world.
		Joseph Lamangino, a New Yorker, was blinded in 1946 by an exploding tire.
		And upon falling asleep, he was given a vision of a future miracle up in the heavens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Okay, so you know this is going to occur.
		We certainly will watch for it and see if it does occur.
		I've read a great deal about these miracles, and of course, Farma as well.
		And believe me, I don't dismiss them at all.
		In fact, actually, I can't go so far as to say I have faith that they are real.
		I'll say I hope they are real.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Good afternoon, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		You're coming in pristine as if you're still in the high desert from the kingdom of Nye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't technology absolutely amazing?
unidentified		I've got to tell you something.
		You could be right next door.
		That's how pure you sound.
		Good.
		I only wanted to speak about Michael, your guest, a little bit.
		Sure.
		We've had some shows on Coast, and, you know, thank God for Premiere and Coast.
		Not a criticism, but there are a lot of guests that come on that seem to want us to go back to the earth and to plant and to do a lot of things that would wipe out pharmaceuticals, which, you know, I have high blood pressure and I take plavics and a lot of, I had a stent put in my heart last July.
		Sure.
		And a lot of things that really, if we didn't have them, I wouldn't be talking to you right now.
		And it just seems as if there's a movement here to bring us towards a Marxist system.
		And I know you're a libertarian.
		I'm a libertarian.
		And it troubles me when indirectly guests like that sort of want to take down the system that we have.
		Although we have flaws, you know, Art, we've always had flaws in our political systems.
		But there are people who would just like to disassemble all of this and march us back to the eighth century, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Michael, I'm not one of those people.
unidentified		And I know that, Art, and that's why I felt comfortable talking to you about it, because we get a lot of them on, and a lot of people, you know, it sounds good.
		You know, let's not drive cars anymore.
		Let's not burn energy.
		You know, turn off your air conditioner.
		And it sounds so good, but a lot of people don't realize that Some of these people really just want to march us back into the dark ages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm in sympathy, I'm certainly in sympathy, thank you, with you, Michael, with regard to the fact that you might not even be here right now if it were not for the pharmaceuticals.
		I think we can find more efficient ways to burn the energy that we do have and ways to create more efficient energy to use for the future, and we're sadly lacking, should have been doing that many, many years ago.
		But with regard to pharmaceuticals, you're absolutely right.
		I mean, we march forward, we save lives, we find new ways to have people deal with medicines and to obtain medicines that save lives.
		And no, I'm in no hurry to suddenly go backwards.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Moses Lake, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		It is such an honor for me to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy to have you.
unidentified		What's up?
		It was probably 1995 or 1996, me and my now ex-husband saw a giant rectangle-shaped UFO.
		And we were in Vancouver, Washington, and that's right by the right across from Portland, Oregon.
		And we were at a stoplight.
		It was nighttime.
		And it just seemed to appear in the sky.
		And it had in the center of it a light that interchanged from red to purple.
		And it seemed to have almost like squiggly black lines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any question in your mind that what you saw was not of this earth?
unidentified		It was definitely not of this earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I saw what I saw, which was a giant triangle, and it came directly over my head, not more than about 150 feet, it changed my life.
		There's no question.
		It changed my life.
		And I take it that this changed yours as well.
unidentified		Yes, it definitely has.
unidentified		And I've never really heard of anybody else seeing a UFO that shape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've had almost all shapes that you can imagine.
		That is fairly unusual, but they've come in just about all shapes and sizes.
		I'm sorry, but I wish I could say I'm in doubt, but I'm not.
		I've seen it myself.
		What I saw was impossible.
		That is to say, from an earthly point of view, it was not the Air Force.
		It was not our military.
		And it certainly could not have been from this planet.
		So that does change your life.
unidentified		Yes, yes, it definitely does.
		And I don't remember hearing anything about it on the news.
		That was the strange part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, gee, I did.
		I really did.
		With respect to what I saw, my wife and I saw, it was indeed on the news.
		The newspaper, the local newspaper, covered it with, albeit a fairly small story.
		But at the time it said, well, there was indeed sighting of something that flew across the Prump Valley that night.
		And the military admitted to a secret mission which did overfly the Prump Valley that night and claimed that it was a C-130 aircraft.
		Now, as I think I've mentioned on the program previously, I flew in C-130 aircraft in the Air Force.
		I know a C-130 pretty well, and I can assure you that at 150 feet, a C-130 doesn't look a bit like a triangle, nor does it sound a bit like something that's being manipulated soundlessly.
		In fact, it would rattle your teeth.
		So, yes, these things, they change your life when you see them.
		What else can you say?
		We're in open lines.
		If you have any questions, any topics you'd like to talk about at all, it's all fair game.
		From Southeast Asia, my little corner of Southeast Asia, over 7,100 islands in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
		And that reminds me, again, congratulations to Robert Bigelow, who has successfully launched his first space vehicle.
		It's a private space vehicle, and it's a precursor to what's going to end up being a hotel in space.
		Robert told me a very long time ago that he was going to do this.
		And, you know, you hear about these things, not frequently from billionaires, mind you, but you hear about these things from time to time, and you sort of file them away.
		But Robert has done it.
		And so that picture on coast2coastam.com right now, my webcam, the flowers are from Robert Bigelow.
		And thank you, Robert.
		And congratulations, Robert.
		And if the gods of guesting can get hold of Robert Bigelow for next weekend, my gosh, I sure would like to interview him.
		Back to Open Lines in a moment.
		By the way, we will do a full Open Lines segment one of these weekends very soon, perhaps even coming up this next weekend.
		We'll be right back.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, from the land of over 7,100 islands, I'm Art Bellin.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		And the first time, don't make that the wildcard line is on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		I have listened to you for years.
		I love what you do, and I also enjoy George.
		But your guest tonight said things that I have believed for years.
		I'm a three-generation New Yorker.
		I have always had a deep reverence for nature.
		That's my church.
		And people often forget that in Chinese astrology, Native Americans, we are animals.
		We just happen to be on two legs.
		What I have heard tonight, I resonate to.
		I'm a very, very blessed person.
		I had out-of-body experiences and astral travels very early in my life.
		I don't want hard blind, but I balance this with being a student of physics, chemistry, and hard math.
		And the more you get into these areas, of course, the more abstract and metaphysical they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do think that what's happening is that science and the metaphysical are beginning, it's very resistant, frankly, on both sides.
		Not as much the metaphysical as on the side of science, but these two regimes are coming closer and closer and closer together.
		I understand there's a sort of a natural tendency for them to repel each other, particularly in the case of the side of science.
		It repels the metaphysical, but dragged, kicking, and screaming, I think there's going to be a meeting of the mind, so to speak, and it's going to come pretty quickly.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		I'm glad to hear you're back on the air again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's good to be back, sir.
		Congratulations on your new life.
		Thank you.
unidentified		I was just wondering about your amateur radio endeavors.
unidentified		Are you going to put your station back on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very soon.
		I've got all of my gear right here.
		And as I mentioned earlier in the show, you may not have caught it.
		I think that I'm getting very close to trying to talk the management here into letting me put a vertical antenna up on the roof, which would be about 200 feet in the air and should work very well back toward the state.
		So I'm about to tackle that.
		There have been any number of priorities that have been a little ahead of that, like finding a place to live and getting some furniture and all the rest, getting the ISD inline and a lot of things, getting my residency and visas settled here and all that sort of thing.
		But I'm just about there.
		So look for me on the air shortly.
unidentified		Well, that sounds great.
unidentified		I doubt if I'll ever be able to talk to you again because of the time difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're a ham, sure you will.
unidentified		Well, what is the difference there?
unidentified		It's like almost a huge number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll give you an idea.
		It's about 17 minutes before 5 o'clock in the afternoon here on Sunday.
		On Sunday.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		And you usually hang out on 20 meters, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, with respect to getting to the U.S., hanging out on 20 meters is indeed where I will be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But hey, we can do that.
unidentified		That'd be great.
		It's good to hear you again.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, buddy.
		We'll look for you on 20 meters.
		It is indeed possible to talk from the Philippines to the U.S. Not a piece of cake, but indeed possible.
		I've done it many times.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, Art.
		This is Axel calling from Reno, Nevada.
		And I listen to you locally on 780KOH, but right now I'm listening to you on my XM satellite radio.
		And I wanted to let you know, kind of a weird occurrence.
		Earlier this year, we had, you know, how things come in threes, and you were talking about celebrity deaths.
		There was Don Knotts, Darren McGavin, and Dennis Weaver.
		They all died within like a week or two-week time period.
		Not only that, but they all died alphabetically.
		And the third one that died, Dennis Weaver, made an early 1970s movie called Jewel.
		It was directed by Steven Spielberg.
		And if you watch that movie and listen to the first 10 minutes of it, I would swear that that's your voice that he's listening to on the radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be.
unidentified		If you get a chance, but it's a specific caller that was calling in.
unidentified		So you would be the caller calling into the talk show and discussing some personal situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that reminds me.
		I've been in a number of movies, sir.
		Actually, it surprised me.
		I sat down and watched a couple of movies, and I can't recall the titles right now, but they had my program running in the background nearly all the way through the movie.
		And about halfway through the movie, I looked at my wife and I said, hey, isn't that my show?
		Yes, it is.
		I'm also in a new video game called Prey, and I've had a million emails about that.
		Indeed, that's my voice in a new video game called Prey.
unidentified		I remember seeing you on a television series called, I believe it was called Dark Skies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And you played the CBS president, was it William Paley?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right again.
unidentified		I remember that from a few years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've dabbled a little bit in those areas.
unidentified		And also, you had the gentleman that called.
		He mentioned about Ricky Ricardo being dead, and it was actually Desi Arnaz.
		Ricky Ricardo was the character he played.
		And you had the gentleman that called regarding the pharmaceuticals.
		You know, if there was a study done as to how many people die every year at the hands of pharmaceuticals when there truly is natural cures to many of the problems that ail people and also one of them being poor diet and lack of exercise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
		In other words, we don't want to get rid of all pharmaceuticals.
		They have real-world value.
		But of course, you're also correct.
		They also, at times, kill people.
		A misdiagnose diagnosis is made, or a prescription that ought not be given is given, or it conflicts with something else.
		So there's no single answer to it.
		But I think all in all, it's better we have them than not.
unidentified		There's a happy medium.
		And one more thing before I hang up, just a thought for the day with what's going on in the Middle East.
		Diplomacy delays the inevitable.
		That's basically true.
		It's nice that we have diplomacy, but does it not just really delay the inevitable?
		What's going to take place sooner or later?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it sure does seem that way.
		Thank you very much.
		I'm very, very concerned about what's going on right now, and whether or not it turns into World War III, or is it the first stages of World War III, as Newt Gingrich seemed to suggest, it's bad.
		And it seems to get worse every day.
		I'm waiting for it to turn the corner and get a little bit better.
		Wildcard Line, you're on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Mr. Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's me.
unidentified		Oh, well, my name's Garen.
unidentified		I'm calling from Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I was calling about earlier when you were talking about the Amazon rainforest and the breath of fresh air and how it's going to cut the rainforest down, it's going to deplete the world's oxygen supply.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the rainforest does account for an awful lot of our oxygen, if you look it up.
unidentified		You could cut down every tree on earth, and it wouldn't matter because most of our oxygen, 70% of our oxygen, comes from algae in the oceans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The algae in the ocean is also in trouble, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you've looked into that, but the algae.
unidentified		I'm sorry to interrupt you.
		I heard that.
		I mean, because I listen to you all the time.
		I love your talk, Joe.
		I work late all the time, and I love it.
		And I looked up everything you're saying, and it's, you know, wild really great, but mostly it comes from the oceans.
		Our oxygen and the earth comes from the oceans, not from the trees in the Amazon rainforest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good enough.
		I appreciate your call, and you may well be correct about that.
		And I know that a lot of it does come from the algae, which also is in trouble.
		I don't know what the net effect of the Amazon rainforest going away would be.
		I doubt it would be good.
		In other words, it seems to me in nature, the Amazon does represent a great part of the balance.
		And if you take it away, it seems like there would be trouble.
		I have no way of knowing that for sure, and that's not a scientific statement, but it doesn't feel good if the Amazon goes away.
		How about the rest of you?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a chemistry question to ask.
		Something that's bothered me ever since I graduated from high school in 63.
		And it's about, you know, one of the first experiments you do in chemistry is the electrolysis of water, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And you get, end up, you hook up your wires and everything, you get, oh, about two inches of gas in one tube and one in the other.
		And they say you got two times hydrogen and one part oxygen, right?
		Okay, now, hydrogen atoms are so much smaller than oxygen atoms.
		You know, they got double.
		I don't know what I want to say right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't we try your question?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What actually is your question?
unidentified		Well, let's say if you made the oxygen atoms the size of a golf or a tennis ball, and hydrogen atoms the size of a golf ball, say you put 200 tennis balls in the deal, and 400 hydrogen deals, it seems to me like they'd come out about level.
		It wouldn't be the same amount of volume.
		And I don't wonder why there's a difference in the volume.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I wish I could answer your question, but I'm not sure that I properly understand your question.
		One interesting experiment I recall regarding water and electrolysis is to take, don't do this at home.
		please don't do this because somebody's going to get hurt.
		Maybe I should not even describe it.
		I won't do it because inevitably somebody will try it and get hurt.
		It is a very interesting experiment, but it involves using 110 volts of electricity.
		So I'll refrain.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
		Yes.
		Hi.
		This is my first time talking to you.
		So actually, I had an interesting experience when I was 18.
		Now, there were witnesses, and it was hard to explain because they were hovering.
		I'm calling from Washington State.
		These three were hovering over Clover Park Technical College.
		They were kind of like chariots of fire.
		These three have changed my life forever.
		Ever since I saw them, I wanted to get a video camera.
		But that night, the lights went out on the West Coast.
		Now, there were reports of those lights going out.
		They don't know what happened.
		I was 18 at the time.
		I'm turning 30 now.
		So I just, it's kind of like chariots of fire.
		I just kept on seeing Blue Cross.
		This guy came out and yelled in my ear and screamed, and we all ran.
		There were like 50 witnesses.
		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people saw this.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		It was on Custer Road by Clover Park, the great kind of military base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in what way has this changed your life?
unidentified		Well, it just kind of changed my life in a loving way because I know there's something out there.
		I know in Washington State, we had an eclipse a few years ago, and I thought that was really cool.
		I got to see Haley's Comet, which was really cool.
		It's like a white comet that kept going around, and it just made me change my ways.
		That's all I have to say.
		Once you see these things, it just changed your life forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does indeed, Ari.
		Thank you very much.
		Well, she's sure right about that.
		And I guess I ought to be cautious in comparing a UFO sighting to a religious experience.
		But in a way, it is like that.
		It does change your life forever.
		Simply knowing that there is something out there other than us.
		And there is no way you can know that unless you really see it with your own eyes.
		But if you see something, for example, as I did, so solid, so real, so close, so impossible, then you do know.
		You know that there is something out there that's bigger than all of us, that is external to all of us.
		And that's one of life's great questions, isn't it?
		Don't forget, tomorrow night, Stephen Greer, Dr. Stephen Greer, will be here.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, Arbill.
unidentified		This is Jerry from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Jerry.
unidentified		Hi.
		I'm 56 years old.
		And when I was about 11, approximately 1961, I was watching Walt Disney.
		As a matter of fact, I can remember what was on.
		It was Davy Crockett.
		And during the commercial, came on, like Walt Disney's wonderful world of colour, and you saw the thing.
		I said, well, I'm going to get out of the freezer.
		And we had this room called the Spare Room, and there was nothing in there.
		It was winter time.
		And I went in there, the door closed behind me, and this energy field came out of the ceiling, approximately maybe two feet long, maybe a foot wide, and it came down like maybe a foot and a half, and it completely enveloped my body.
		And I had this high-frequency pitch Go through my head.
		And it stayed there for like maybe 20 seconds or something like that.
		And then it kind of lifted out of the ceiling.
		And I shook my head and I said, boy, that was kind of weird.
		And I went to the prison, got what I was getting, and went back and watched Walt Disney.
		About maybe six months later, I was lying on my side next to a wall and I couldn't move.
		I couldn't move the first time, but for some reason I could see it.
		But the second time, I couldn't move.
		And I was laying in bed, and I thought, you know, was I dreaming?
		But I knew I was awake, but that same sound was going through my head.
		But this time, it held me longer, and I remember saying to myself, gee, I hope I'm not like this forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This sounds an awful lot like sleep paralysis.
		Sleep paralysis.
		Sir, you get that paralysis that you just talked about.
		You also get that noise, that sound, that buzzing.
unidentified		You called it something else, but it's kind of like a buzzing.
		But I wasn't sleeping the first time.
		I mean, I was walking to the freezer in the spare room, and the door closed behind me.
		I remember it was wintertime, and I don't know if you know, when there's a lot of snow outside, there's somewhat light in the room, and that's why I could see it.
		And the second time, like I say, I couldn't move, and I did hear about sleep paralysis on your show, and I thought, well, that's what it was.
		But like I say, the first time I wasn't sleeping, and I did see this thing, and I don't know what it was.
		Was it an evil spirit?
		Was it somebody from another planet or something checking me out, programming me?
		I didn't know what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, of course, I have no way of answering that, nor any second-hand experience that I hear about, one that you would describe.
		But these things do go on, and it's why a program like this is sustained again and again and again.
		And even if you're one of the ones who sits out there and scoffs at this kind of thing, what you hear these people describe is not just, for the most part, usually, just their opportunity to get on the air and talk for a few minutes.
		It's because they really did have these experiences.
		And so again, it's why a program like this is sustained.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, how you doing, Mr. Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Memphis, Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Memphis, all right.
unidentified		I had an experience when I was young, about six years old.
		I was in my bedroom playing with my toys and down the hallway on my parents' room, and they were down there in their room discussing whatever.
		And I have a glass chandelier, you know, that lights up my bedroom.
		And this is the Honest to God Truth.
		Somebody whispered something in my ear and told me to stop playing with my toys and walk to your parents' room.
		And I promise you to this day, as soon as I just looked at my father, the glass chandelier fell and shattered.
		And I was playing right up under it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		So what do you think that was?
		Your best guess?
unidentified		I guess so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, what was it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your best guess?
unidentified		What was it?
unidentified		I believe it was somebody on the other side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody on the other side?
		Well, it could have been.
		There's no way to know.
		Listen, thank you very much for the call.
		We're woefully short on time here.
		We're obviously going to have to do many more open lines.
		It really feels good.
		It's been a long, long time since I've just sat down and done, I don't know, four hours in a row of open lines.
		So we'll plan that very soon.
		Listen, I want to thank you all for being here.
		I want to thank you all for listening to me from the other side of the world.
		Remember, you can email me.
		I'm artbell at AOL.com.
		That's Art Bell, A-R-T-B-E-D-L, at AOL.com, or ArtBell at MindSpring.com.
		That's artbell at mindspring.com.
		So from Manila, the Philippines, the land of more than 7,100 islands where the rain is slowly falling, I'll see you tomorrow night.

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