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July 30, 2006 - Art Bell

02:41:10

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - John Hogue - World War III and Nostradamus - Dr. Steven Greer - SETI and ET

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	From the Southeast Asian capital city of the Philippines, comprised of over 7,100 islands, Manila, Metro Manila, good evening, good afternoon, good morning, whatever the case may be.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Actually, Hemisphere to Hemisphere AM, if you will.
	It's a pleasure to be with you and it's a pleasure to announce that coming up in a few moments we've got Stephen Greer, Dr. Stephen Greer here.
	And let me do a little bit of setup for what you're about to hear.
	And I have no idea what you're about to hear, folks, as usual on Coast to Coast AM.
	I just sort of cruise along here and I really don't know what you're going to hear.
	Here's what set off the quest to get Dr. Greer on.
	And it was a recent exo-politics conference, and here's a quote, a supposed, alleged quote of Dr. Greer.
	Quote, we have confirmation, and I'm not going to give the name yet because we're trying to coax this guy out of the closet, but one of the senior people in the SETI project, which of course is the Carl Sagan search for extraterrestrial project, has confirmed to the Disclosure Project that they have received multiple extraterrestrial signals.
	End quote.
	Greer then goes on, but that now they are getting external, human, probably NRO or NSA jamming of those signals and they're getting very frustrated.
	Greer continued, quote, the question is why hasn't the SETI project funded by Paul Allen, the co-founder of Microsoft, come forward with this information?
	I'm a little confused even mentioning this except Except for the fact the public needs to know that this effort, which has received a great deal of mainstream media attention, has actually been confirmed to us from two inside sources that they indeed have received extraterrestrial signals, and have confirmed them as being extraterrestrial, and that they have become increasing in frequency and number.
	Dr. Stephen Greer is head of the Disclosure Project and on it goes.
	But obviously that went off like a bomb in my head.
	Dr. Stephen Greer is founder and CEO of Space Energy Access Systems, also the founder and director of the Disclosure Project.
	He's been a guest here for many years.
	He is an emergency physician, former chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital.
	Dr. Greer is a lifetime member of Alpha Omega Alpha, the nation's most prestigious medical honor society.
	He has appeared on several national programs including Larry King, CBS, BBC and TV in Japan.
	Dr. Greer, has been supervising a worldwide search for alternative energy sources specifically known as zero point or over unity devices with a plan to identify and develop systems which eliminate the need for fossil fuels and obviously any sort of extraterrestrial propulsion system that we could ever get our hands on would probably in all likelihood contain
	Such an energy source.
	So this went off like a bomb in my head.
	Been trying to get Dr. Greer and I confirm for you now that in fact he is here tonight.
	In a moment we'll find out if what he said, if these quotes were indeed his.
	We'll be right back.
	Just one additional comment before bringing Dr. Greer on.
	I had a listener, Paul, wherever you are, thank you, who wrote to SETI asking exactly this question.
	SETI responded to Paul, no SETI program has detected an extraterrestrial signal.
	If anyone had, it would be made known to the public in accordance with the Declaration of Principles concerning activities following the detection of extraterrestrial intelligence Which was developed over a period of years by the SETI Committee of the International Academy of Astronautics with the assistance of many experts interested in this question.
	And with that response in mind from SETI, here is Dr. Greer.
	Dr. Greer, welcome back to the program, sir.
	Thank you.
	Glad to be here.
	Well, it's been two weeks in the waiting.
	I guess your car broke down last week.
	Oh, it was all kinds of things, and I was lucky to get back out here today.
	I was in Washington meeting with people up on Capitol Hill, but I'm very happy to answer your questions, and I can confirm that those quotes you read at the opening segment are correct.
	They are correct.
	Well, that's a bombshell.
	I mean, that's nothing short of a total bombshell.
	You know, we have been sort of hinting at this for a number of years.
	I just had a new book that we released a couple months ago called Hidden Truths, Forbidden Knowledge.
	And I recount in there, years ago, a man who is on our team who worked at NASA Ames Research Center, where the SETI project for a while had been centered.
	And he worked down the hall from those folks.
	At one point, I went over to one of the very senior scientists there and said, what would you say if I told you that you people already know that we are being visited by extraterrestrial civilizations and they have landed on terra firma and that the SETI project is really a big smokescreen to make it look like you're looking for something that you know is already here.
	And this senior scientist with SETI winked at him and said, well, I would say that you're a very smart man.
	So that was my first hint that something was not quite right with the way that project was being conducted.
	Holy smokes!
	So a wink and a nod and I'd say you're a very smart man.
	Well that's obviously a confirmation.
	It was a confirmation that they knew that and this particular person.
	Subsequent to that, one of the founders of the SETI project and I spoke And this man, who I do not want to name at this point, but who would be a household name amongst anyone who follows this, told me that he would lose his career, and I'm quoting, if it was known that he was even having a conversation about this matter with me.
	Subsequent to that, there was a man who was once the editor of Astronomy Magazine and Sky and Telescope Magazine, who was one of our witnesses for the briefings we did, if you remember, Art, back in 97 for members of Congress.
	This man, along with some of these other military men, stood up and this particular astronomer
	said that he had been present at a SETI facility when an extraterrestrial signal came in.
	He was ushered out, the place was sealed.
	He testified about this with members of Congress in the audience, including the chairman of
	one of the powerful committees, Congressman Dan Burton, and subsequent to that, he began
	to be blackballed and blacklisted from different assignments and jobs.
	and so he has stopped coming forward to discuss that particular event.
	But the most astonishing thing was that a senior member of our research group who is an astronomer and used to run one of the big telescope programs and back years ago had been involved with Carl Sagan looking for other planets around other star systems, was
	talking to one of the very senior inside people at SETI, who again told him that in the last
	few years they have had numerous extraterrestrial signals using some type of technique that
	was not disclosed to him or to me, but that the signals were so numerous that they then
	began to have their system externally jammed by some sort of human agency that did not
	want them to continue receiving those signals.
	Now, this person, if I were to say who he is, almost every one of your listeners would
	probably know the name.
	So these are people, we're trying to negotiate them coming forward at some point publicly
	with this.
	We have had inquiries by, I think, the current president of CETI, Seth Shostak, who has denied, of course, that they have ever detected anything.
	I don't know if he's prevaricating or if he simply is out of the loop.
	Actually, that was going to be one of my questions.
	Frequently, as you know, I've interviewed Seth, and here's what he's always said, Doctor.
	He said, look, even if for some reason we decided we wanted to hide this, we would be unable to do so because of the Right, right.
	because of the connectivity, because of the fact that our scientists are working
	on this full-time, they want nothing more than to receive contact. The word would
	flash out on the internet virtually instantly and I think I'm carefully
	quoting what he said. Right, right. He has said the same thing to us and of course I
	simply don't buy it because I know that any organization that wishes to have an
	effort that is publicly known and a parallel effort that is more tightly
	held can do so.
	And, uh, I, I, you know, compartmentalization is the name of the game, and I certainly think it must apply, uh, to the CETI project.
	The reason I, you know, this comment that you're referring to is when I was with the Honorable Paul Hellyer, the former Minister of Defense from Canada, and he and I were doing a press briefing up in Toronto in May.
	And he and I have been discussing this, and I disclosed to him the details of this particular disclosure from a senior study source.
	And I felt that it was important for people to understand that there are very serious and mainstream astrophysicists and astronomers and scientists who now three separate Confirmation, the one that happened years ago in the 90s to a member of my team who's a NASA researcher at Ames, this astronomer who disclosed what he had found to these members of Congress in 97, and most recently the senior scientist who disclosed this to us.
	So I can't believe that these three, independent and corroborative, these are all separate and corroborating sources.
	would be simply making this up and these are not low-level munchkins, as they used to say,
	or people peripheral at all to that effort to search for intelligent signals in space.
	Okay, well anybody lesser than yourself and I'd be cringing right now, but I mean this
	is just bombshell news and here's something else I would like to know.
	Now, this made it to print, Doctor, and was this a comment that you made in public to this man so that it made it into print, or did somebody just happen to overhear this conversation, or how did it get to print?
	No, what you read at the opening of the show actually did appear on our website, DisclosureProject.org, as a result of my verbal comments at the press briefing with the former Minister of Defense, Paul Hellyer, in Canada in May of 2006, a couple of months ago.
	Well, excuse me, but how would something of this magnitude just go sailing on by the mainstream press?
	That's an interesting question, isn't it?
	Yes, yes.
	Well, I think the mainstream media is neither free Nor all that much of a check and balance on what they used to call the fourth estate that we think it is.
	And you and I have talked about this before, but my experience with the very large and mainstream media is that they have been ordered to pull stories many times and have done so.
	And by the way, I don't know, I don't think I've spoken with you, Art, since we put this up on our website.
	I have a CIA document.
	Uh, that was given to us.
	that is an authentic declassified document that on page six of it states that the CIA
	has assets within all the major wire services and news media and networks to change or alter
	stories when they need to, and that that has been very successful. This is a 1991 document
	during the first Bush presidency. So, and I have personally been on the inside of newsrooms
	at ABC News and elsewhere when I have seen stories either killed or altered to water
	So the fact that the quote mainstream media or big media doesn't cover or dig into this does not surprise me at this point.
	It would have surprised me maybe 15 years ago, but at this point I would say that that's the rule rather than the exception, unfortunately.
	Okay, Doctor, I want to ask you about the CIA document.
	Now that's another bombshell.
	Is there any way that you feel you can make this document public?
	You said on page 6.
	It is on our website, DisclosureProject.org.
	Anyone who wants to get on that website can see it.
	And by the way, I understand this document got reclassified after it was handed off to us, but it was a declassified document when I obtained it and we have put it on our website.
	I haven't read it yet, Doctor.
	Does it list any of the criterion for changing or deleting a story entirely?
	No, it just mentions that when needed, that that has been a program that has worked very well and has been successful.
	It specifically states that in the document.
	Oh, God.
	That crosses a certain line.
	In other words, these people will...
	I don't even know how to respond to it.
	Yeah, these ideas that people have about the corruption of the media and the complete wholesale
	destruction of our democracy and the freedom of the press is not a theory.
	This document very well establishes that that's the case.
	This is, it crosses so many lines, Doctor.
	In fact, both of these stories, the fact that there has been contact.
	Can you tell me anything at all, was anything disclosed to you about the nature of the contact?
	So many questions.
	Yes, it was confirmed to me that these were definitely extraterrestrial.
	They were intelligent signals.
	They apparently were searching in a spectrum or in an area, I don't know the technical information, but that they apparently hit the mother load and they were receiving so many signals that somebody watching the SETI project receiving these signals then began to externally jam uh... they're receiving capabilities and i know that can
	happen because if you well know
	five years ago and two thousand one we did the disclosure project event out of
	the national press club in washington dc the entire first hour
	of that with externally jammed by some intelligence operation
	and the president of connect live at host all news going out of national
	press club confirmed to us that the first our bar event was externally electronically jammed through electronic
	warfare means of some type.
	Well, it absolutely can be done, and even signals being externally received with the satellite capability we have can be blanketly, if that's a word, they can just blanket the frequencies so that you cannot hear a thing.
	Correct, that's right.
	So, again, with regard to the nature Do you happen to know if, I mean they say it was intelligent, that's discerning one thing, but were they actually able to, do you know, decode or make sense of what was being sent?
	That level of detail I do not know, and all I do know is that it was confirmed as extraterrestrial, and that it was not just an isolated event, but they had a plethora of them, and that they were so numerous That that's when they began to have the external interference with the system that they were using.
	All I can tell you is that when I have the opportunity to interview people from SETI, they sound very sincere when they make the claim that there's really no way, the way it's set up, because they would need confirmation from other radio telescopes and other people prior to the ability to announcing anything.
	And I, frankly, I'm like you, I've always questioned very carefully This whole concept that it would immediately be made public.
	One would think it would be such a national security issue that there's no way in hell it would be made public.
	That's always been my position.
	No, there are filters in place.
	And you have to remember also that even figures like Carl Sagan, you know, one of his best friends is a friend of mine and is on our team.
	And he said that he remembered to the day When Carl Sagan was turned as an asset of this covert group trying to keep this stuff secret and became sort of an official debunker of all things UFOlogical and what have you, even though in his early career he said that there was something to it.
	And I think that, you know, the ability for these particular interests to corrupt efforts, whether they be private or governmental, is well documented and is not theoretical.
	And I think in this case, what I would like to see happen are other scientists who have been in whatever compartmented operation has detected these signals come forward and come forward publicly.
	Now, that would be difficult, but I'm asking for that.
	And I know that when I discussed this with the former Minister of Defense in Canada, Paul Hellyer, he also would like to see that happen.
	There's one other way we can approach this, Doctor, and that would be to have some idea of the frequency range that they were dealing with.
	Now, traditionally, they have looked near hydrogen.
	That's been sort of a marker frequency where they thought perhaps they would get a signal because it's kind of universal.
	So if we had any idea of what frequency range they were listening to when they got these multiple signals, there are a number of amateurs who are able to listen to those frequencies and we could get a private effort going as well.
	So do you have any idea of the frequencies that might have been involved?
	I do not.
	And I have to also say that my own sense of this, and this is from what I've heard from From other scientists, and it really goes beyond most people's capabilities, is that there are ways to modulate and pulse electromagnetic signals that are not in the normal electromagnetic spectrum that involves sensing and detection systems.
	And of course, this crosses over into the whole area of very advanced physics dealing with what some people have called longitudinal electromagnetic
	signals or so-called scalar, I think that's a misnomer, signals. But I'm not so sure
	that it's the conventional system that picked these up, although I do not know what the
	spectrum was or what the frequency was that was involved in this particular barrage, apparently, of...
	Barrage.
	Did they indicate to you that it was other than the normal electromagnetic spectrum?
	Did Nod and Winkin suggest that?
	No, that was not hinted at.
	It was just that there were many of these.
	And, you know, it was interesting in the context of the way this was said, the scientists saying this, you could feel This sort of bottled up how much he wished the world knew what he knew.
	You know, I've encountered this hundreds and hundreds of times.
	We're now well up around 500 military and intelligence and corporate witnesses to these things, including, I might add, a three star Air Force general that I have met with who's retired.
	And many of these people, you can sense in their voice how much they wish they could let the world know the truth and what they found.
	All right.
	Dr. Greer, hold tight for a moment.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	So, I think the headline here is, confirmed three separate sources in SETI confirm multiple extraterrestrial signals.
	Have been received.
	We've been receiving messages from out there.
	Three separate sources in SETI.
	You heard it from Dr. Greer from the Philippines, Manila in the Philippines.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, it certainly is not a story that I expected to be breaking this early in my broadcast from Manila, but my guest is Dr. Stephen Greer.
	He is an emergency room physician.
	He's got a very great deal of credibility, and in a way, this will be a very good test of what he just talked about, the 91CIA document.
	Like you said, it was page six that claimed they had control of the major news media.
	Every big newsroom in America, that kind of thing, had CIA operatives, that sort of thing, in the newsrooms.
	This is just a wonderful test of that, because in my way of thinking, here we are on a full, well, greater than national program, really, and a multinational program, and we've got a very credible man, Dr. Stephen Greer, saying he's got three separate sources in the SETI program that claim they have received not just a signal, but multiple signals, a barrage, if you will, of extraterrestrial signals.
	Now, if this does not hit the major news media in America almost right away, then something's rotten in Denmark.
	And I think we're heard in Denmark as well.
	Anyway, it's a wonderful test of all this.
	Dr. Greer back in a moment.
	Once again, Dr. Stephen Greer.
	Dr. Greer, Andreas from New Haven, Connecticut writes following, Dear Art, Dr. Greer just made some very serious allegations with regard to Carl Sagan.
	Please don't let it go by.
	Sagan was corrupted?
	Come on, that's too much.
	You have to defend him.
	Well, Andreas, I don't know that I have to defend anybody, but I will pursue it a little bit.
	Doctor, it is hard news for a lot of people that Dr. Sagan was, in a sense, corrupted?
	Well, I'm simply sharing what has been very directly relayed to us by one of his close friends and associates and that, you know, there was a reason why Carl Sagan at one point was open to looking into UFO events as a possible expression of extraterrestrial involvement and then became one of the best-known debunkers of all things UFOlogical, writing even in Parade Magazine and things like this that were very, you know, mainstream of big publications to that effect.
	And it isn't because there's not enough evidence.
	As J. Allen Hynek said, there's an embarrassment of riches.
	There's so much evidence and there's so much data.
	And you have to ask the question, why would someone of that stature who wanted to find life in the universe Go around eventually becoming a debunker of facts and cases that indicated that humans and the earth were already being visited.
	You know, he certainly did go through a very, very large change.
	I think we all know that.
	Corrupted is a strong word, but perhaps it does apply.
	You know, it happens far too often.
	You know, I'm working right now with a man who For years, worked with General Motors, and you may have heard that there's a movie out that's just been released, a documentary called Who Murdered the Electric Car, or something to that effect.
	And this man was the head of the 30 engineers that worked on that, and he has told me the story of how all types of extraordinary energy and propulsion systems had been corrupted, had been suppressed.
	And I've maintained for years, and you know this is our legal position, Is that the entity or entities dealing with these issues and keeping these sort of things secret is the world's largest RICO, racketeering-influenced corrupt organization.
	Another question from a listener.
	Why would they declassify the CIA document you talked about only to reclassify it?
	Is that some sort of disinformation trick?
	No, because there have been a number, if you've been following the news on this, there are a number of Uh, documents and information that at one point had been, uh, released that in the last five or six years has been reclassified and sequestered.
	This has been reported in mainstream media, by the way.
	And this particular document, I am just told that that's what's happened to it.
	I don't know that that's the case.
	Someone could do a FOIA request and find out.
	I do know that we have the document, and it's quite clear that it describes this agency, a CIA program, where they could successfully alter and delay, change, etc., news stories.
	And it listed, you know, the major networks.
	It didn't list them by name.
	It said the major networks, news magazines, wire services, etc.
	Well, I could, for example, Doctor, understand why some stories, as they might relate, for example, to a war, were involved in.
	Information that might jeopardize our troops, or something of that nature, might be stopped before it hit air.
	But beyond that, I cannot imagine it.
	Well, because in this case, the information about the fact that we have Uh, extraterrestrial civilizations visiting Earth, that we've been studying this for 60 years at least, and that we have developed the energy and propulsion systems behind them.
	We don't need to have ET land and give it to us.
	We have them, and they're sitting at Lockheed and Northrop Grumman and other corporations have them.
	And we have witnesses to this effect.
	And that story, of course, would Make obsolete the need to use the $200 trillion asset base known as gas and oil and coal that's proven to be sitting in the ground.
	Remember, somebody or some bodies and corporations and entities owned that $200 trillion asset base.
	And bringing this information out isn't just about, well, are we alone in the universe?
	It's also about who's running planet Earth?
	What's the agenda behind it?
	And where is the real geopolitical power center?
	It's not necessarily in the White House or Congress, I'll tell you that.
	Scott from Loveland, Colorado says, Hey Art, don't forget, extraordinary claims, and this is certainly one of them, require extraordinary evidence.
	Your guest, you doctor, is giving unsubstantiated evidence by saying so-called names and media cover-ups.
	You in fact quoted three separate sources inside the SETI program.
	This is news of such magnitude, and I certainly have, what's the right word, compassion for those who don't want their careers ruined.
	But I mean, this is such big news, Doctor, that are you sure you don't want to give the names?
	No, I don't.
	And what I would like to see happen is more people who may have been involved with this, who are Uh, not as high profile as these particular gentlemen who are extremely high profile.
	Come forward and independently corroborate it.
	You know, that's what we did many years ago when we started calling for people who had been in military and intelligence operations to UFO and extraterrestrial events.
	And we started out with a few, and then we had a dozen, and then we had 40, and now we have almost 500.
	So, you know, I see that this could perhaps happen on a smaller scale on this issue.
	And I don't believe that the SETI project alone is the only entity on the planet.
	I'm hinting now at some particularly well-funded, very secretive intelligence agencies, such as the NRO, that have monitored and received and picked up signals.
	So I would like to see people come forward confirming this from diverse agencies, not just SETI, and would like to see this happen where they are named.
	And it's not my position, quite frankly, to quote out these people.
	It's not in my interest to do it.
	I don't behave that way.
	I will say that I stand by what I have said, and the reason I'm speaking about it now is because we have had not three people just in this one instance, but three separate instances since the 90s where this information has been confirmed to me.
	And so it's very hard for me to believe that those three independent and corroborating sources are making this up.
	I agree.
	And they're not the kind of people who would.
	Marlow in Irvine, California says, Dr. Greer, I understand you have some information on the missing Apollo tapes.
	Can you update us on that situation?
	Is that true?
	Do you?
	I have information on the Apollo mission.
	You know, my uncle was the senior project engineer that built the lunar module.
	I don't know if you're aware of that or not.
	I think I was, yes.
	Well, we have known for a number of years that when we went to the moon, first of all, before we went to the moon with the manned mission, the lunar orbiter was imaging the moon and we have, if you look at the DisclosureProject.org website in the testimony, we have witnesses who were at Langley Air Force Base in a very compartmented National Security Agency Affiliated center there that was staffed, monitoring these images coming in and compartmentalizing the ones that showed extraterrestrial structures.
	So before we landed on the moon, we knew that there were going to be ET structures and probably ET craft around.
	So when we went there in 1969, there were in fact UFOs that were seen along with the Apollo Mission and at the time of the landing and I have people who have seen the footage the actual footage of the ET craft on the crater and around the lunar module as it was landing and So certainly there is missing footage because I know people who have seen it and very classified briefings and The what was shown to the American public was by no means the the true story of the Apollo mission Doctor because of your
	I guess the following question is worth asking.
	Vicky in Sydney, Iowa asks, Dr. Greer, can you be sure that the three separate sources, and normally two separate sources would be more than enough for a major newspaper to go to print with a story, three separate sources, is not disinformation being fed to you to somehow discredit you?
	Oh yes, I'm sure it's not disinformation.
	Whether or not it can be used to discredit me, that may happen.
	You know, for a NASA researcher to, unsolicited for me, to say that he was at the NASA Ames Research Center when this man winked at him and said, yes, we know we're already being visited.
	Years later, for this senior astronomer who was at one of the SETI facilities when a signal came in and saw how a curtain of secrecy fell, and he was ushered out of the facility, and then now for this Other gentlemen who would be a household name amongst people who follow SETI and follow this whole question of searching for extraterrestrial life, to say this, I find it incredible, quite frankly.
	And then separate from that, my conversation with this same man years earlier when he acknowledged That if it was even known that he was having the conversation he was having with me personally, that it would end his career, notwithstanding his stature as a shining light of this whole SETI effort.
	So, no, I don't believe that this is disinformation at all.
	Okay.
	RJ from San Bernardino, California says, Art, it's not surprising that this story has not yet broken.
	I mean, look at what happened with the Phoenix Lights.
	Now, that one I can personally confirm, Doctor, because I was On the air, the night the Phoenix Lights situation occurred, I took call after call after call after call.
	It was one wild night.
	I was there on the evening when it happened.
	I don't know if you know that, Art.
	I do know that.
	So I took the calls.
	I remember.
	But the point was, Doctor, that after it went on like crazy on my program, Not a word in the mainstream press the next day, nor the next week, nor the next month, and three months later, it broke on the front page of just about everything it wants.
	Interesting.
	Hell, it was on CNN, it was on Fox, it was on everybody's news program, all at the same time, three months later!
	Yes, how does that happen?
	Well, how independent can all these media outlets be when you see that kind of pattern?
	I wonder if the same thing might occur, doctor, with regard to the story that apparently we're sort of breaking right now.
	I mean it should have broken when you made the statement in Canada, but I mean obviously you're being heard well across two continents and beyond right now.
	So I wonder if a couple of weeks, a couple of months from now, there'll be sudden front page news.
	Well, and I would like to see people come forward who can now corroborate what we're saying.
	For example, we have a Defense Intelligence Agency witness who saw images that were taken by satellite of ET craft, and these satellites were not pointing down at the old Soviet Union.
	They were pointing out into space.
	Others were pointing down towards the Earth, but were imaging enormous craft, and this man saw them.
	I would like to see more people who have been present when electronic signals, SIGNET as
	it were, as well as imaging of these objects has been captured by not just SETI, but by
	various compartmented operations within corporate and governmental sectors.
	We know they exist.
	We have witnesses who've seen them.
	And it would be very good to have more of that come forward.
	For example, what someone could come forward with if they possess it is the proof of this.
	When we had one of our witnesses, John Callahan, who was the third highest ranking man at the
	FAA during the Reagan years, and people can see his testimony at disclosureproject.org
	It's there for everyone to see.
	His name, rank, and serial number.
	This man actually had the digital images of this enormous spacecraft moving over Alaska following this Japan Airlines 747 cargo ship.
	And we have the digital printout.
	We have the pilot's report.
	We have the actual radar tape.
	And people say, where's the smoking gun?
	I said, well, we have it.
	We need to get that kind of data from people sourced within these other types of organizations.
	And I'm making a specific call for that to happen.
	Alright, let's go to motive for secret for just a moment.
	Terry in Idaho somewhere says, hey Art, do you think the government's keeping all of this a secret?
	You know, the signals and whatever, whatever additional information they might have about alien contact.
	Is it all being kept secret because of religion?
	Because it would destroy some people's faith?
	I will tell you that a scientist at JPL They told me that they had confirmed, and this is another important story, this is in my new book, Hidden Truths, Forbidden Knowledge, they had confirmed that there were ancient ET structures on Mars and that if that information came out, that it would undermine not
	The belief in God at all, but in some of the Orthodox beliefs that are within many of the world's religions, and that that is one of the reasons.
	It isn't the only.
	I may not even be the main, but it is one of the reasons for the secrecy.
	And by the way, I would like to correct your listeners' comment.
	It isn't the government that we think about that's keeping the secret.
	99.9% of the people I can assure you that you would meet with in the government of the United States of America and
	Washington DC has no knowledge of this and so when they say they don't
	know anything about it
	they have plausible deniability and they're speaking the truth they really
	don't know I'm certain that's true
	But again, when you look at motives, or you try to figure out why whoever it is who is keeping the secret is keeping the secret.
	Certainly religion, in my mind, has to be right at the front of the list.
	What other motives can you imagine for their not releasing this?
	Well, I think that's one of the reasons.
	The other reason is that it's a matter of connecting the dots.
	Once it is confirmed that we are having contact by extraterrestrial civilizations, it will
	then come out that they have landed on terra firma.
	It will then come out that we have studied their energy and propulsion systems, and then
	that science will come out.
	And when that comes out, we won't see the need at all for oil and gas and coal.
	And if you look at the kind of power center that's based around the energy and transportation
	sector and the transnational global oil interest and financial interest associated with those
	industries, they have enough reach to keep this secret.
	So I don't deny at all that there may be some of the motives are philosophical and religious.
	I think some of the motives clearly are geopolitical power and financial.
	And economic, yeah.
	Right.
	Your latest book, Dr. Hidden Truth, Forbidden Knowledge, how long has that been out now?
	Oh, just a couple months.
	I sent you a copy.
	I don't know if it got to you all the way over in the Philippines.
	I don't think it's, it's not made it yet.
	Oh, somebody, Confiscate, made it and signed it to you and wrote you a little note.
	Anyway, hopefully, well, if you don't get it, let me know and I'll send you another one.
	All right.
	Obviously, we need to do an entire program somewhere in the future here.
	So maybe you can cut away the time.
	What do you think?
	Yes, we'll have to do that, and you know, the reason I wrote this book, it's my memoir about my experiences, and it starts when I was very young, when I had a contact with an E.T.
	Kraft and E.T.
	Beames, and it's my own story of, you know, how does a guy who's an emergency doctor and a physician involved in rather traditional science get so heavily involved in this issue?
	It's because I know this is all real, and it is not.
	Something that is fictitious or in any way imaginary.
	And so I wanted to put out there where I'm coming from, what kind of experiences I had that led me to the conclusions I've reached.
	All right.
	Well, what a bombshell tonight.
	Doctor, thank you for being on the program.
	And as I mentioned, in the future, the very near future, I hope we'll do an entire program together.
	But you really lit it up tonight, partner.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Have a good night.
	Take care, doctor. All right, well, I fully expected Dr.
	Greer to sort of back away, if not entirely, at least to some degree from the comments he made.
	But instead, he just dropped a bunker buster bomb on this audience.
	And if the mainstream press does not pick up on what...
	I'll tell you what, folks.
	Many of you have recordings of what happened tonight.
	For God's sakes, send them to the networks.
	If this story, because of his credibility, does not break nationwide, then I would say something is broken, as he suggested in the press.
	From Manila in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
	Yes, once again, here I am.
	Man, what an hour that was, huh?
	Hi, everybody.
	It's good to be with you.
	I've got breaking news, I do think.
	The headline story, which I didn't get to in the first hour because we had our own breaking news, Dateline Jerusalem.
	Israel suspended air attacks on South Lebanon for 48 hours in the face of widespread outrage, and there has been, over an airstrike Sunday.
	They killed at least 56 Lebanese, almost all of them women and children, when it leveled a building where they had taken shelter.
	The announcement, made by a State Department spokesman with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Jerusalem, appeared to reflect American pressure on Israel to make some concession after the strike.
	Well, the breaking news Is that apparently Israel is conducting airstrikes right now.
	I just heard from the network that breaking on Fox was information that airstrikes are going on right now.
	So that indeed would be big news, if true.
	And I do have Fox here in the Philippines, although I don't have time to run in there and check it out right now.
	It's not on the latest Associated Press.
	A five-minute summary, but I will check it out.
	I'm sure that many of you will confirm that for me on Fast Blast, but that's a word from the network that apparently Israel is resuming airstrikes after promising to halt them for 48 hours.
	coming up in a moment on Nostradamus and this is a very good very good time a
	timely interview indeed probably the world's expert on Nostradamus John Hoge
	coming right up from the other side of the world at about 11 make that well
	it's 11 11 in California about 211 here in the afternoon on Monday I bid
	you good day good night whatever it is
	John Hogue, coming up in a moment, is considered to be a world authority on Nostradamus and is a best-selling author of numerous books, including Nostradamus, The Complete Prophecies, and Nostradamus, The New Millennium, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, The Last Pope and Messiahs, The Visions and Prophecies for the Second Coming.
	His work has brought him international acclaim.
	He's been published in 18 languages, sold over a million copies worldwide.
	In addition, he's appeared on over 700 radio and television shows on three separate continents.
	John Hoag, welcome to the program.
	It's great to be back on with you, Art.
	God, it's great to have you on.
	What a night.
	John, I don't know if you happened to catch the first hour of the program, did you?
	Yes, I did.
	And I was trying to find some correlations in prophecy.
	The thing that I did notice in all of this is something that was purported by Billy Meyer of the Pleiadian Controversy whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I find it very interesting that he said that they would contact people in 11-year cycles where, you know, he first saw these extraterrestrial objects in 75.
	So, 75 to 86 was the active period.
	Then there's an inactive period where there's not a lot of communication, telepathic or whatever, that happened to him.
	That was through 86 to 1997.
	That would mean that right now we're in an active period.
	Well, I'd call that active.
	When somebody says, look, I have three separate high-level sources, sources so high that if you heard the names, their household names, you know, if you studied this sort of thing at all, you would know these people immediately.
	Those are big people.
	And if three people, separately, have said, look, we have received extraterrestrial signals and the information's being held back, that's a big story, John.
	That's a really big story.
	It's the story of the 21st century.
	In many regards.
	And strangely foreseen, some of the questions you were asking him about why would they suppress it, why would they withhold it, I think that there's a struggle going on behind the scenes where many groups of people, both extraterrestrial and terrestrial, that belong to what are called esoteric groups like the Ashoka Nine and other Groups, Illuminati, many names bandied about out there.
	There's a shadow government or a shadow world of power seekers and brokers that are trying to figure out how they can transfer what was basically a national-centric version of this kind of pulling the strings behind the backs of us to an international and intergalactic form of doing this.
	And they're still trying to work it out, and the last thing they need to have happen is some other person from some other source suddenly spring on them the revelation, spring on the world, that there's another life source out of there, out in space.
	And if that were to happen, there's two prophets of the 20th century, very, very different people, made a similar prediction in their reflections about extraterrestrial life.
	That if it was discovered overnight, and they both believed fervently that it was true and it would be discovered, but they said when that would happen overnight, the human race would stop squabbling and fighting its little childish problems and unite.
	And one of those men was the scientist and futurist Arthur C. Clarke.
	Ironically, the other was Adolf Hitler.
	John, I was going to ask you, before you just said that, if there was anything at all, since you're such a student of Nostradamus, that he had said that in reflection of, for example, the first hour's news, that in reflection would hint at what we just heard.
	Yes, I was just pulling up something from, a copy from one of my books.
	I'm just warming up the computer right now to get it up again.
	That looks at a couple of very interesting prophecies.
	There's a number of prophecies that can be attributed to an extraterrestrial theme, I believe, in Nostradamus' prophecies.
	The difficulty, of course, being that the farther afield they go in time's potentials, the more it's hard to understand the symbols.
	But the one that's always amazed me And felt very much a prophecy about this stuff is one where he says, the gods will make it appear to the humans that they will be the authors of a great conflict.
	Sword and lance, sort of like a word for lance, like missiles, before heaven is observed as serene.
	That means attacks in the air from the sky, which links to a lot of prophecies that relate As we'll probably talk about in the next couple of hours, to, you know, fire from the sky, missiles from the sky, long comets, trailing sparks, all the way to 16th century French seers trying to convey and perceive things in the far distant future.
	So he's talking, it's one of the only times that he ever uses the term, the gods as if they're outside of us, make it appear to humans, and he says that gods in plural, And I would think that anybody who is on the earth who saw some of these beings advance, more advanced technologically and otherwise, they would kind of appear to be God-like.
	Absolutely.
	There's another prophecy that deals with angelic beings, that the human realm of angelic offspring will cause his realm to hold in peace and union war captive halfway inside its enclosure.
	Whatever that means.
	John, I'm not sure that human beings are capable of discerning between what we might loosely call angels and extraterrestrials.
	I'm really not sure we can discern.
	Well, I think in the case of Nostradamus, he had a hard time with it too.
	I mean, especially since Nostradamus was a man who proposed that he channeled what he called angelic beings of fire using kind of Neo-Platonist magic Basically, this whole, what we would call today, channeling higher beings in higher planes.
	That was the main forefront of his work, even more than what TV likes to propound, the water gazing and whatnot.
	He was basically a transmedium, and so his whole issue, his whole idea with angels, with these kind of god-like figures, Who's to say that even Nostradamus wasn't approached in that way, by something extraterrestrial?
	So, it's a fascinating topic.
	I've been trying over the years, 30 years of studying prophecy, to collect the world's
	prophecies about our destiny in space, and our destiny to meet other civilizations.
	And hopefully I will get that out soon.
	It's a long, long work.
	I'd sure love to be alive to see it happen, John.
	Listen, let's move very quickly.
	I'm sure we'll come back to this.
	For the sake of the interview we're doing right now, there is breaking news.
	Now, I have not discussed since I've been back very much the war going on in the Mideast right now.
	However, there's breaking news this morning.
	Israel had killed at least 56 Lebanese by mistake, mostly women and children.
	Following that, I guess there was U.S.
	pressure to do something, and so they announced a 48-hour halt.
	Now, I just got word a few moments ago That Israel is once again back-bombing.
	Newt Gingrich, oh, I don't know, a week or two ago, said something that caused the hair on the back of my neck to stand straight up.
	I believe he said something to the effect of, we are now in the first stages of World War III.
	Yes.
	And that'll stop you cold, of course.
	World War III.
	Is there prophecy from Nostradamus to support that?
	I actually watched the show, one of the weekend shows, Washington Review, I believe it was.
	I'm not sure.
	It could have been Chris Matthews or someone else.
	But I think it was on MSNBC, and he made the statement.
	And I was sitting there thinking, well, he has just said a politician, a mainstream politician, somebody who may have a chance to be the next president of the United States.
	is now saying something that I've been writing about since 1986, that people will come late to understand that this is the beginning of the Third World War.
	It probably started with its own Pearl Harbor on September 11, 2001.
	If Nostradamus is correct, it will last between 25 to 27 years.
	And I've been on your show many times and over the decades writing that the people of the world will try to appraise what's happening from what they know from past world wars, and they'll be a few years into it before they finally come to grips with the fact that it is a war of unorthodox quality.
	It is a war of what Mystical astrologers will call you the First War of the Irrational Aquarian Age.
	It's not between armies.
	It's between stateless groups against stateful armies.
	It's a war where your great weapons that you could have waged in the Cold War cannot be used against a band of 200 people who can hold hostage to the world.
	It's a war, it's a clash.
	I think in the last show I did with you, several years back, I even talked about how we have to face the fact, for better or worse, beyond right and wrong, that this is a clash of cultures, too.
	It is an axis of the Western world pitted against the Near Eastern world.
	I don't know how it can be avoided, John.
	The radical Islamists, if I understand correctly, have made the determination that they cannot change us, that they cannot convert us.
	That being said, the only option left for them, and they have squarely said this and certainly done it, is to kill us.
	And conversely, there are people on the other side, who I coined the phrase, Apocalyptists, who believe what I call propaganda, that certain things have to be persuaded to create the end times.
	That they're kind of practicing what I call Armageddonomics, the economics of setting up a world to fall apart Because your scriptures, you think, say this is supposed to happen.
	And this I talk about in Messiah, the book that looked at all the apocalyptic traditions, East, West, and Near Eastern.
	You have the same convergence of rather myopic, fanatic points of view.
	You have the Islamic version of Armageddon.
	You have the Judeo-Christian versions of Armageddon.
	We even have the Persian version of Armageddon, which actually was the first to create the tradition of Armageddon a thousand years before the Jewish prophets were even recording it in Persian.
	So actually, John, they're proactive Armageddon folks.
	Is that a way to phrase it?
	That is correct, Art.
	The traditions of prophecy that are most proactive about their prophets are the Judeo-Christian, Islamic, and Persian traditions.
	Others, or other traditions, aren't actually trying to make things happen, even though it's denied, even though people like to use the prophetic bromide of, no one knows the time, you know, that it happened, which I think is a bit of a cop-out.
	I've often thought that that quote was probably inserted in the Bible later, because Jesus, in the small apocalypse on the Mount of Olives, was actually talking about something that was going to happen in his lifetime.
	And, unfortunately, a lot of that, it's not clear whether it's an accurate prophecy because it was recorded 30 years after the event.
	My God, John, when you look at the headlines today, it almost feels like we're following a script to the end game.
	Yes, we, there's a, it's basically what I call the syndrome of propaganda.
	It's a It's a concept that's basic in Eastern and Western religions, probably a misunderstanding in both, that looks at the world as either a place you transit through that's an illusion, as the East looks, and then you perfect yourself and liberate yourself from reincarnations.
	Or it's a world, as the West generally sees it, that's a place of sin, and a place that's destined to be destroyed, and we're there to be tested in our single lives, and then to be judged.
	In either case, both sides either aggressively or passively view the world as a bus station.
	We can mess it up because we're going somewhere else.
	But it may very well be that that's a misunderstanding of both Eastern and Western religions.
	Maybe that's the way the world will end, John, and a big misunderstanding.
	Well, it's definitely trying, and there's groups of people very consciously aiming to take their misunderstanding, call it truth, and destroy half the world.
	But what will happen, and I feel very strongly about this, that the 21st century, if these things start happening, people are going to find that they're not being carried up into the sky, into clouds.
	They're not having somebody save them from themselves.
	When no one comes to save them, they're going to have to grow up and snap out of these childishnesses.
	John, we all know that the Middle East is probably where it will begin.
	We know it is where everything began.
	And we also know, biblically, that it's where it will end.
	Now, the Middle East has flared up many times, only to then simmer down again.
	What makes you think that this war, this conflict, this particular conflict, has arrived and will continue to escalate and stay and become World War III?
	Well, it's because of the datings and astrological predictions of Nostradamus, which are actually quite rare in his prophecies, but quite potent when they begin happening.
	And in layman's terms, we're basically set up with prophecies that talked about the appearance of a great comet before this happened.
	I know a lot of people write me all the time about the smallest little comet the telescope sees, but when Nostradamus is talking about a great comet, he's talking about something you can see with the naked eye and is absolutely brilliant in the sky, and the last time that happened was Hale-Bopp in 1997.
	Right.
	Now, he talked about 1999 as a very important date, when the King of Terror would descend from the skies, and it seems to relate in similar language to his famous New York What could be called the new city of New York being attacked, prophecies, the great hollow mountains falling into the cauldron of their own explosions and debris, or the tub.
	That's actually what the basement of the World Trade Center was called, the tub, because it was watertight.
	I didn't know that.
	It was actually called the tub.
	And he called it the tub.
	He said they will seize and plunge these hollow mountains into a boiling cauldron.
	Or tub.
	Cuvée is used in both terms in French.
	And so, all that's happening, 1999 and 7 months, when he talks about 1999 and 7 months in the prophecy, that could be a code where you play the game of reversing the numbers, because 7 months also can mean sept-mois, September month.
	So, with what has happened in a certain September early in this century, You look at 1999, reverse the numbers, and what do you get?
	9-1-1-1.
	September month.
	So, that's the beginning.
	And then, the way this war goes, I try to find parallels, and this world war is more like the Thirty Years' War in the 17th century.
	It's not one that goes on and on and on with the intensity of the six years of World War II or the four years of World War I, but more something that flares up, explodes in one place, dies down, then flares up again.
	But you seem convinced that this particular flare-up, hold on John, we're at the bottom of the hour, this particular flare-up is going to lead to the finality that was supposed to begin in the Middle East.
	I hope not.
	A high rise in Manila, the Philippines.
	I'm Art Bell.
	It certainly is.
	From Manila in the Philippines, I am Art Bell.
	My guest is John Hogue.
	He is a world-renowned expert on Nostradamus, and think what you may about Nostradamus, but he's got a damn good track record.
	That's why his name is still remembered very well indeed.
	In a moment, more of Nostradamus and John Hogue.
	Nostradamus, of course, was a very famous prophetic figure, both in his time and now.
	And as a result of his accuracy, his life was in danger then, and therefore he wrote most of what he wrote in what are called quatrains.
	John, is that correct?
	Yes, and they are quatrains that use word plays that will sometimes mask a date By just spattering off astrological aspects, which, in the case of what may be happening right now, there's a very important one that I've been writing about for the last several years, since 9-1-1, that was supposed to take place between June 4th through July 22nd of this summer.
	It's in the prophecy, Quatrain 67 of Century, or Volume 4 of his work, The future of the world, called the prophecies, that reads like this.
	In the year when Saturn and Mars are equally fiery, the air is very dry.
	A long comet appears.
	From hidden fires, a great place burns with heat.
	Little rain, hot wind, wars and raids.
	The term equally fiery implies, astrologically, Mars and Saturn being in the same fire sign.
	Not just two in two different fire signs, which is a lesser possibility, but specifically the same fire sign.
	That doesn't happen as often as people think.
	It started when Mars entered Leo, a fire sign, where Saturn has been since last summer, and will continue to be until next summer.
	And when you look at Mars and and Leo and Saturn and Leo and you look back astrologically at all the great dates of wars, you often find one or the other or both in a fire sign together.
	It's like clockwork.
	It seems like until until we become a race of beings that are not so mechanically and habitually influenced by the cosmos and by each other, we will always seem to follow like clockwork down these certain paths.
	And with that theory in mind, I've been writing articles on hogeprophecy.com and other places in my books saying that if we're going to remain predictable, then the next great war will happen in 2006.
	That's when you'll see the real flare-ups and beginnings.
	Now, it's interesting how this time correlates in this prophecy to things that have happened this summer.
	A great place burns with heat.
	Great droughts.
	Europe and America, the continents of Europe and North America, are right now under amazing heat waves.
	Unprecedented.
	Long comet.
	That's an allusion to something more than something in the sky.
	It sounds like a long tubular sparkling comet-like thing that might be thrown from the woods and arroyos around southern Lebanon into Israeli cities.
	It could be the long comet that's released from F-16s guided by Israeli pilots that are falling from the sky on Lebanese targets.
	It's perhaps talking about something more than comets, but missiles.
	Over the years, John, you've cautioned us that here in America, and the West, we wouldn't begin to recognize the Third World War until we were knee-deep in the middle of it now.
	I guess everybody's looking for a familiar kind of war, like the Second World War, for example, where everything was clear, the enemy was clear, we saw what was happening, we saw it coming, we knew when we were going to get in the war pretty much, and we did.
	This is going to be a very different kind of entry into what's going to be a world war, isn't it?
	Yes, it's a labyrinth.
	It's a jungle-like war.
	It's not clear.
	It's not defined.
	The Aquarian Age, astrologically speaking, is what we're entering right now, and it has a whole new take on warfare.
	The rules of engagement are completely changed.
	It's not any more a battle between one state against another, but the stateless as such versus those in states.
	The ones left out, the old problems that often cause wars, economics, poverty, is now going beyond the limit of borders, but is now embracing people, the have-nots and the haves, the fight between an overpopulated developing world versus a depopulating Affluent world.
	And these issues of hopelessness breed a climate where people become fanatical.
	Where they may seek martyrdom for a better world.
	Where they may, on the Western side, propose that since the world is going down, we should just exploit the trees and the oceans and everything as much as we can, because The apocalypse is supposed to be around the corner, isn't it?
	Well, it certainly seems that way.
	And it could all very well be one huge illusion that's based on a misunderstanding of our religious teachers who are not, whether they walked the earth or not, the way we believe they did, or said the things that we want them to say or don't want them to say.
	The truth is that even a fundamentalist, as well as somebody more tolerant, has to admit that Jesus Christ isn't standing right here right now, and Mohammed is not standing here right now.
	We can't ask them exactly what they meant.
	We have, to the best of our abilities, have to interpret what has been passed on by word of mouth, mostly, because it seemed like many of these people either couldn't write, like Mohammed couldn't write, so he recited the Koran to others.
	We don't know if Jesus ever wrote.
	We don't have any evidence of it.
	That doesn't mean he didn't exist, but the danger is that we are at the best of our facilities, which, as far as consciousness goes, is not so good right now, and has not been.
	We're trying our best to interpret these powerful apocalyptic ideas.
	I mean, as I said before on the show, and I say it again, everybody listening out there, when I say the word apocalypse, I bet most of you think of doomsday and flames and fire and judgment and all that.
	But that word doesn't mean that at all.
	It's the ancient Greek word for enlightenment.
	For the light coming in.
	It has nothing to do with destruction.
	Do these end times refer to a time when all nations, or perhaps all nations in the region, I don't know how it would be, turn against Israel?
	I mean, you look at what's going on right now, and Israel, despite its best initial efforts, it just does not look like they've had the effect against Hezbollah they wanted to have.
	And it looks like there's going to be a gigantic escalation.
	Now, it's not too hard to imagine some of the other nations, like Syria or Iran or, you know, who knows, but beginning to pile on and joining in suddenly in this effort if it escalates.
	Is that how it's going to happen?
	Yes, but it'll probably not come from that source.
	It'll come from the civil war in Iraq.
	I've been saying since 1986 that the trigger To radicalism overflowing across the Arabic Middle Eastern world is coming from the Ayatollahs of Iran.
	I said that back in 86 in my first book.
	It did not turn out to be Khomeini in the flesh that was going to trigger this, although I predicted it, but certainly if you look at Khamenei, his successor, and has been a successor ever since Khomeini died in 89, And all that have come after him, in spirit, Khomeini's spirit, is in this radical push to push westward, across to Egypt, to Syria, which is in some of the prophecies of Nostradamus, from Mesopotamia.
	Mesopotamia is the ancient name for Iraq.
	In fact, Al-Qaeda calls its organization in Iraq, not Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
	That's a misnomer.
	They call it Al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia.
	And I find that very interesting because of the references in Nostradamus to Mesopotamia.
	He will enter wicked, unpleasant, infamous, tyrannizing, or is that a wordplay for Tehran meaning tyrannizing, the capital of Persia, over Mesopotamia, Iraq.
	All friends made by the adulterous lady, the land dreadful in black in aspect.
	When you see radical Islam overspreading the world, whether it's Sunni or Shia, it's cloaked in black uniforms, black flags, black turbans.
	It is, for better or worse, a Christianized Jewish man, Nostradamus, in the 16th century, perhaps being unfair, perhaps not, but seeing something of a threat similar to the threat that he lived in with the Saracens.
	And the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century.
	We had in the Cold War the Red Scare.
	Now Saddam is struggling to see the future with the biases of his time about the Muslim Scare.
	That hasn't happened since 500 years.
	Is there anything in radical Islam that is a parallel to the apocalyptic visions we have from Nostradamus?
	Both, no doubt, about exactly the same area.
	In other words, are there predictions and prophecies within Islam about exactly this same place, same time, the whole thing?
	Well, not specific to the time, except that there are prophecies in the Qur'an from Muhammad.
	There are also many sayings attributed to Muhammad that are volumes full, that I've collected, that are attributed to him, but did not get into the Qur'an, because they weren't specific to the religious scripture.
	But there are a number of things.
	Folk prophecies and all that talk about the rise of the Black Flags.
	When the Black Flags come, they will rise towards the West and take back Israel and take back Jerusalem and convert the Jews to Islam.
	But you know, that idea is also clearly in Ezekiel and Daniel and the apocalyptic literature of the Jews who also see this time as the time when the coming of the true Messiah is about to come.
	Not this false messiah called Jesus Christ, but the true messiah.
	And they also conclude that, just like the Muslim apocalyptists, that there will be a thousand years reign, and everyone will be converted to Judaism, and Jerusalem will be the center of the world for a Jewish world.
	Christianity has, in its circles, apocalyptists who also see The Jews and the Muslims all being converted and finally everybody getting set straight that Jesus was the right Messiah and anything that comes after is false.
	So you see a pattern here of each group that has been born out of this apocalyptic thinking in the Western religious world and all major players in the very apocalypse that they want to self-fulfill.
	You have Iran, the source of the Battle of Armageddon itself in Western scriptures, that predates the Jewish prophets talking about it for a thousand years.
	They adopted many of those things in Jewish mysticism, and so from the Jewish source comes the Christianity and the Muslim descendant religions, and all of them now converging with their own version of the same projection that Our side, not their side, is going to win.
	And they're all converging on Jerusalem.
	So in a way, they're trying to make it happen.
	I understand.
	All right, let me try this on you.
	Traditionally, Americans and in the West, we have thought for many, many years that World War III would be Russia or China versus the United States.
	That World War III would be a nuclear holocaust.
	And, at this very moment, of course, it's rather difficult to see, or maybe it is not, how Russia, or China, or a major nuclear power, who could really threaten the United States, could be involved, even down line, in this current conflict, no matter how you look at the escalation, in some way that it would move toward a World War III that we would understand would be apocalyptic from the U.S.
	point of view.
	There are actually two phases.
	If you look at, I mean, I've looked at thousands of prophecies concerning this issue from all corners, and what I seem to see happening is a certain thread of prophecies that never thought, that was kind of in the minority, that never thought that the Cold War was going to end up in a Soviet-Russian-American conflagration with nuclear weapons.
	Because they pointed, and it seems this thread is now becoming more and more the right direction, at least the way future is going, or predictable, I won't say it's right, but predictable direction it's going, and that is that you'll know that the Third World War is coming when Russia becomes America's friend, when they are allied at the beginning of it, as friends, as Nostradamus calls them, who are not yet friends.
	The Great Kings of the North.
	He gives them a description which is about an eagle constellation in the northern hemisphere, which is intriguing to me.
	It didn't make a lot of sense to me until communism fell in Russia.
	Now it's clearer.
	Yeah, I think that would be a fair description of our current relationship with Russia.
	We are friends who are not yet really friends.
	And he uses this real shrewd 16th century pun.
	He calls them demis.
	Which means dummy, friends, and it means divided, in another point.
	And their symbol is these eagles.
	Now, Russia has a two-headed eagle in the post-communist federation, and we have the American bald eagle.
	So, Nostradamus loved to describe people by their animal totems and symbols.
	And so, the great aquilineers are America and Russia, that they begin this war as allies but the indication is it is undermined by a barbarian source now the word barbari means north african libyan as well or can be illusion generally to the middle east where the uh... uh... and it is an illusion to barbara rosa who in nostradamus' time was a corsair pirate that's the closest thing to a terrorist in the perception of a sixteenth-century mind like nostradamus could grasp he often talks in
	About our current situation, as if they're pirates.
	And he talks about them, as the biblical tradition does, as three eastern kings.
	Three nations from the east.
	That's close enough for me, John.
	Pirates is a good enough analogy, I think, to what we understand to be modern terrorism.
	I think that's close enough for me.
	Yeah, and he says, the words he says, they use subterfuge and ambush.
	He was talking about the Axis of Evil 450 years ago, before the President's speechwriters coined the phrase for the President.
	They have been implied to be Persia, Mesopotamia, Iraq, and the Great Mongol from the East, which is either China or North Korea.
	So, it would seem, and one could argue that one could look at biblical prophecy and beyond trying to see it as fundamentally written in stone, one can look at it a little more...
	Well, it's several thousand years farther back.
	They might not have seen things as clearly as somebody from 500 years ago would see.
	Do you think the phrase, axis of evil, was just a perhaps unhappy coincidence?
	Well, the story that I read is that it wasn't originally axis of evil.
	I don't remember what the first go-through was, but it was the speechwriter who coined the phrase evil, and then it sounded good, and they went with it.
	Well, there was the evil empire from Ronald Reagan, right?
	Yeah, it was Russia.
	And then we got to Axis of Evil.
	That statement so riled and spooked the Soviet Politburo that it later became known that they, for the first time in their history, thought of a first strike Because they thought Reagan had lost his mind by saying that, and it was only Gorbachev that got the current Premier at the time, Andropov, to calm down, saying, no, I think he's just breathing fire rhetoric.
	I don't think he really means we are that, and calmed him down, because the Premier of the Soviet Union in 1984 was seriously considering a first strike on America because of that speech.
	So, when I hear another president, another generation later, making a statement like that, it's like, oh no, it looks like history repeating itself.
	But this time around, ironically, I think George Bush hit upon something that had been foreseen by Nostradamus 400 years before.
	Exactly the same phrase, the axis of evil.
	All right, John, hold on.
	We are at the top of the hour.
	My guest is John Hogue, and he is generally considered to be a world authority on Nostradamus.
	And Nostradamus, of course, has had a great deal to say, apparently, about the current world events underway.
	I wonder if that's it.
	I wonder if when we look back on it, If there's anybody left to look back on it, that will regard World War III as a great misunderstanding.
	I think it was Einstein who said he had no idea how World War III would be fought, but he knew how World War IV would be fought with sticks and stones.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Good morning from Southeast Asia.
	I am Art Bell, overlooking Manila in the Philippines.
	I'm sort of reflecting on the first hour of the program tonight with Dr. Stephen Greer, and now the second going into the third hour with John Hoag, and one has to wonder if there's not some sort of connection.
	A lot of people have speculated over the years on this program and others that there would be others who would save us, who would pull our fat out of the fire just before the main fire happened.
	Well, you've got to wonder a little bit.
	it more john hoag in a moment all right john welcome back uh...
	Judith from Boston, Massachusetts says, Art, your guest is wrong about Judaism.
	The view of those times is that everyone will become to believe that there is a creator of the universe, a single creator of the universe, not necessarily Jewish.
	Big difference.
	Please correct the error.
	Judaism does not insist that everyone become Jewish.
	Well, it's, again, depends on the interpretation.
	You know, there are people who It's either overt or covert.
	That's the other thing, too.
	It doesn't deny the fact, though, that when Jerusalem is made the capital of the world, that the peoples of the world give tribute to it for a thousand years.
	Kind of a form of subjection.
	It's either passive-aggressive or it's aggressive, but it depends on which group you talk to.
	Okay, Tim in Denton, Texas says, Christians are every bit as irrational as Muslims.
	I was raised Baptist, but have turned atheist since.
	I remember as a child singing the Sunday hymn, Onward Christian Soldiers.
	It's a war that's been brewing equally on both sides.
	You agree?
	Yes, I do.
	It is a situation where if you have three major religions converging in one place, all three claiming to have the secret key to that region, all political correctness aside of how it's interpreted, it's like if it's the Christian apocalypse, the Christianity will be the winner of this war, of Armageddon.
	Judaism, it's going to be Judaism that wins.
	If it's Islam and their apocalypse, they are going to win.
	People just have to deal with this basic fact and confront it that there's a lot of self-righteousness going on here.
	Every combatant's religion or point of view of the apocalypse sees themselves as the victorious against the others.
	And so you've got a three-way convergence in the same area.
	And my point is to pause and reflect on whether it is all sincere but grave misinterpretation of what it was originally intended to be.
	World War III, a great misunderstanding.
	John, you refer, or Nostradamus hints apparently, to a black or dark leader describing what the press is calling atomic ayatollahs, and you mentioned ayatollahs earlier as sort of driving all of this from Iran.
	Do you have any information or knowledge with regard to whether there is an Islamic bomb Well, there already is an Islamic bomb.
	Pakistan has a few dozen, maybe 25.
	There's certainly, in Iran, an attempt to create an Islamic bomb.
	There was an attempt in Baghdad to create it in 1982.
	Nostradamus coined the phrase Raipaz, which is basically an anagram for Osirak.
	In Roman letters, that was the name of the reactor station that was bombed by the Israeli Air Force in 1982 to stop Saddam Hussein from getting it.
	Now, what's also happening here, which has to also be addressed, is that there is also an attempt to have an Islamic bomb, but there is already an arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, at least, the Israeli bomb.
	And it seems to me that if there's going to be no nuclear war in the Middle East, all potential combatants in the region have to disarm their nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction.
	One of the great prophets of the United Nations and the League of Nations was the Baha'i mystic from Persia.
	Who was not an Islamic person, but created a new religion, and his son, Bahá'u'lláh's son, Abdu'l-Bahá, was basically talking about creating a League of Nations, and he foresaw the difficulties with arms reductions, and he said, if nations, I paraphrase here, if nations don't disarm at once, together, And one disarms and the other does not.
	It will never work.
	Well, Israel is not going to give up its atomic weapons.
	I think we both know that.
	Yeah, and they shouldn't in the situation that is existing now.
	But at the same time, the situation that is existing now, and understandably created that arsenal, which could be triggered in what's called the Samson effect, where they would basically unload their nuclear
	weapons across the Middle East if they felt that they were going to go down the Samson
	option, it's called.
	And knowing the mythology of the Bible, Samson, when he was blind and made a slave, pushed
	the pillars of the Philistine palace and collapsed the entire palace on all of his enemies.
	Can you foresee a situation, John, where Israel would use a nuclear weapon if, for example,
	Jerusalem were hit hard?
	I just, you know, I'm very concerned about what's going on right now, and I just have this terrible feeling that Hezbollah probably has a way to hit Jerusalem.
	Now, would that be a potential trigger?
	They won't hit Jerusalem.
	In fact, Jerusalem's probably one of the safest cities to be in in this mess, because all three groups claim Jerusalem as their city.
	That's a good point.
	But if you're in Tel Aviv, or any other city, then yes, it is a dangerous time, a dangerous place to be a target.
	And there are the many prophecies in Ezekiel and Daniel that describe an outcome that looks like fires descending from the skies to burn enemies of Israel like stubble.
	burnt wheat, to annihilate entire vast armies of Gog and Magog, which are first entered in the Jewish prophecies and then later added, embellished by St.
	John in the Book of Revelation in the Christian prophecies.
	It certainly looks like, in a situation where atomics would be used, and certainly when you see the objective fact that There is an arms race going on in the Middle East, in a regional way, like the one that happened between America and Russia at the end of the Cold War.
	One of the facts that few people understand is that before Russia lit off their first atomic bomb, America had a few hundred of them.
	And it's how ironic it is that probably America had as many atomic weapons as Israel has now, against its own fractious neighbors.
	It promotes, whether people like it or not, if you have them, you promote your enemy and your adversaries to have them too.
	And it just creates the same syndrome.
	Prophecy works, and one can predict a lot of prophecy, because it is a repetition of past history.
	And you see, once again, the arms race beginning.
	Of course, the Arabs and the Persians want a nuclear bomb.
	Wouldn't you, if somebody had 200 pointed at America and you had nothing?
	Yes, of course.
	And it doesn't mean you're right.
	It's not about right and wrong.
	It's about reaction to a situation.
	Well, from their point of view, it's considered, I suppose, self-defense.
	Yeah, and both sides see it that way.
	And both sides cannot seem to see the other side in this.
	And with such a polarization, You then equate that to a more cosmic level, if you look at how the theory is that the planets and the stars, we're all interrelated to this, and the fact that you have this sign of war so powerfully over our summer skies.
	Yes.
	And then you look at what happened.
	June 4th, Mars enters that conjunction with Saturn and Leo.
	It enters Leo.
	By the 7th of June, a few days after that happened, when about first degree of Mars is transited into this sign, Abu Musab al-Sarkawi is killed, the head of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, by American bombs.
	Very significant event.
	Then, as it's passing through, Hamas, with probably orders from Iran, Because there are leaders in Syria and a frequent flyer to Tehran getting instructions.
	Just at the time when Iran is about to face UN sanctions, or a meeting about that, about its nuclear program, a soldier is abducted in the southern Gaza Strip.
	And that triggers a low-grade war, and then that's around the 26th, 27th of June.
	On July 4th, another long comet, in fact seven long comets, Near your neck of the Earth, up north in North Korea, are launched, causing quite a big crisis for Japan and others.
	That's on July 4th, and Mars is still running closer and closer to Saturn.
	As it gets closer, things get worse.
	On the 12th of July, eight Israeli soldiers are killed in an ambush, two are captured.
	On the border with Lebanon, within 48 hours you have a full-scale war between Hezbollah, and on it goes to the conjunction that was right around the time of the conjunction of when Mars and Saturn were equally fiery, that was the point in cosmic time where things started coming up into fire of war.
	Okay, I noticed recently Condoleezza Rice made a statement apparently designed to sort of lower the perception of tension between Syria and the United States, suggesting that our relationship, the negative side of our relationship was a bit overblown.
	Did you hear that?
	It's hard to know what, as your first hour so aptly described, what's being spoon-fed to us.
	I know that since it's my full-time job to study it, most folks who are just trying to make a living, have kids and have a good life don't have the time to make this a full-time fishing job to actually find out and record What seems to be right and what's not, and then check it with time and events to see which sources are credible or not.
	It takes a long time, but you can start finding over the internet, actually, raw news that hasn't been cooked and Disney-fied by whatever side is going on.
	Yeah, we do get cooked news, there's no question about that.
	Is this conflict, pitting Israel against Hezbollah and Hamas, going to lead to a wider war with Syria, in fact, and perhaps Iran?
	I think it's actually been planned to do that.
	I think, especially because of this one prophecy that keeps haunting me in regards to this, I'm looking forward to the moment, yes.
	There's a prophecy that basically gave some astrological aspects that were based for 2004.
	It's a very rare conjunction of planets.
	In that, basically, it says this, a horrible war which is being prepared in the West.
	The following year, the pestilence will come, so very horrible that young nor old nor animal may survive.
	Blood, fire, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter in France.
	Now, that means over France, those aspects, those planets being together.
	That happened in 2004.
	It happens again in February of 2009 in Aquarius, and it happens again in April-May 2011 in Aries.
	It's closest conjunction to the Mayan calendar's date for the end of time as we know it in 2012.
	in 2012. So it's a... and then it happens again in the 2020s.
	But it's an important and rather rare aspect. And Nostradamus actually built his
	time map of the future off of important astrological, reoccurring astrological figures,
	configurations.
	And so, when I look at that, I'm thinking, well, if it happened in 2004, we're right in the middle of a, that was when the rhetoric began to ramp up again, and we started hearing similar things coming from the White House that sounded like, just erase the name Iraq, And put Iran.
	You know, they may have weapons of mass destruction, this and that.
	It was this whole ramp up, and a lot of the internet news sources were starting to say, boy, it sounds like it's coming on again.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I thought exactly the same thing.
	Yeah, and then there were all the trips in 2004 that Ariel Sharon, the Prime Minister of Israel, made.
	A very frequent number of trips, more than any Prime Minister of Israel I've ever seen due to an American President's White House meetings go there.
	And after a while, people in my context and others were saying, well, why is he going there so often, but nothing's happening for the roadmap for peace?
	And it kind of started getting leaked out that he might have been going to see the Bush administration, because they were preparing for a war with Iran.
	And, you know, it's ironic in a way, because of all the missteps in the war on terror, there are probably more right reasons to attack Iran.
	Than ever there were to attack Iraq.
	Well certainly if you look at the rhetoric that was coming from the White House, it absolutely looked as though we were ramping up to go after Iran.
	But equally with that are far more dangers.
	I mean there is often a reference in Nostradamus about the fleet sunk by the Trident or melted.
	A fleet sunk and melted in the Arabian Gulf, which was the term they used in 16th century for what we call the Persian Gulf.
	That the indication is that this war will, if it's going to last and linger for 27 years, it's the kind of war where you don't have big armies like you used to have in the earlier world wars.
	So if you commit airstrikes on an enemy, you haven't actually taken them down.
	You've destroyed some of their functions, their ability maybe to make weapons of mass destruction, but clearly if a war is going to last long, it's going to be a war that That lasts long because the allied forces don't have the resources to invade the source of this cancer and it lingers for generations.
	Well clearly the Israelis right now are getting very frustrated and it seems as though the air campaign that they've had going is either underdone or even if expanded is not going to be particularly effective in trying to suppress Hezbollah and Hamas.
	It's just not doing the job.
	One would expect a ramp up, and I guess that's what we're about to get, and boy it sure feels like the next step toward the great misunderstanding.
	Well, and it's also again with these aspects of equally fiery planets in the Nostradamus sense, we're going to be with Saturn remaining in Leo, which by itself is a sign, you know, a fire sign like Leo is a sign of war.
	Until September of next year.
	The next big window, like for instance, to answer a question you asked last hour, is this a flare-up or is it just going to go ongoing?
	That's right.
	It could smolder, it could back off a bit, although I think the next conflagration is actually the one that's blazing right now that the news isn't even looking at, the fact that Iraq is finally sliding into sectarian civil war.
	And so that's the new flare that's going to take our awareness away from what's going on over here in Lebanon.
	And then, at the end of this year, there's another very high chance of some major air attack on Syria or Iran.
	And then it happens again the following summer.
	So, this civil war in Iraq, you almost sound as though you're more concerned with that than you are with what's going on with Israel right now, or they're both of equal concern to you in looking at the bigger picture?
	In one week in Iraq, more people died than probably in a few days of Iraq than all the people who have died so far in this war between Israel and Hezbollah.
	6,000 people died in the last seven weeks in Iraq from the two sides fighting each other.
	For years I've felt that the breakup of Iraq was going to cause this spread of radical Islam from Iran that would spread across Syria to Egypt, as one of the prophecies says, which basically makes its confrontation with Israel and triggers this war.
	When we get back from the ads advertisement time, I've got actually the prophecy that describes the fate of the American Army in this war.
	All right, John.
	We'll look forward to that, or not.
	John Hoge is my guest.
	He is considered to be a world expert on Nostradamus, and of course we're talking about the current situation in the Middle East.
	Not a good one.
	From the Far East, Southeast Asia actually, Manila in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
	It certainly is, and you are on the ride of your life.
	From Southeast Asia, specifically the Philippine Islands, in excess of 7,100 islands, now being visited by tropical depression Henry.
	Only a tropical depression, so we've gone from typhoon to typhoon to a present simple depression passing over us, dumping rain and more rain and more rain.
	My guest is John Hoag.
	And he is discussing the prophecy, of course, of Nostradamus.
	He's considered to be one of the world's experts on Nostradamus.
	And indeed, what we've been hearing this night is, at the very least, chilling.
	I kind of hate it when my own shows scare me half to death, but this one certainly has been doing the job.
	We'll be right back.
	Okay, John, you did the promo prior to the break, so go ahead and do the work.
	Okay, we have Quatrain 61, Century 3 in Nostradamus, written back in 1556, which said, The great host and sect of the Crusaders will be amassed in Mesopotamia, that's modern-day Iraq, of the nearby river, the Fast Company, that such a law will hold for the enemy.
	Now, first off in history, there's never been a Crusader army.
	That is, set foot on some great crusade in Mesopotamia.
	It's never happened in all the other crusades in the Middle Ages.
	The fact that the American president, George Bush, called this war against terrorism a great crusade in the early days after 9-1-1, he retracted the statement because of its insensitivity to people in the Middle East who think of the crusades From the medieval times as being just yesterday.
	But still, it is a crusade, and it is an amassed army in Iraq that is mostly made up of Christian soldiers of America, devout Christian soldiers.
	So one could see in the 16th century in Astrodamus looking, seeing the crosses, seeing the images of this western army amassing on a great crusade.
	So, the nearby river, well, that's the Euphrates.
	The fast company is the very lightning-fast armored columns racing down the side of the Euphrates River.
	The most important line in here is to understand the final line, which says that such a law will hold for the enemy.
	It's interesting that he uses the term law, especially because of how important a term it is to Muslims, especially Shia Muslims in the region.
	The Sharia, the sacred law of the Muslims, as interpreted through the Quran, is one of the main issues that two-thirds of Iraq wants to bring as law into the constitution of Iraq.
	Sixty percent of Iraq is Shia Muslim, and so it implies that the law is their law, and since Nostradamus looks at them as the enemy, he's saying their law will be upheld, which is a way of saying that we're not going to win in Iraq, and we're going to be getting a lot of trouble there.
	There's another prophecy that continues the story by saying, his power finally through the bloody Aulus, that word A-L-U-S, This is an anagram for the French acronym, l'USA, the USA.
	His power, finally through the bloody USA, he will be unable to protect himself by sea.
	Between two rivers, again a reference to the Tigris and Euphrates, he will fear the military hand.
	The black one will make the angry one repent of it.
	I read the black one to be some Ayatollah figure, and the angry one is Saddam Hussein.
	He did fear the military hand from the sea.
	He was deposed.
	He sometimes appears as the Arab prince in the same prophecies.
	His overthrow is actually triggering the mess.
	There's other descriptions also talking about black-cloaked, black-turbaned people involved.
	And it just strikes me to mean the Ayatollahs.
	The Arab Ayatollahs of Shia Iraq, who mostly were saved in havens in Iran during the time of Saddam Hussein's secular dictatorship since 1975.
	I think it's also known that when the Shah of Iran was dictator of Iran, that some of the key ayatollahs who later created the Islamic revolution in Iran, were for a time exiles in Iraq, under the protection of Saddam Hussein.
	Well, with everything going on right now in Iraq and apparent civil war brewing and underway, it feels, it's beginning to feel, and I know this is not a particularly popular opinion, John, but it's beginning to feel an awful lot like Vietnam.
	Vietnam is another war where we really didn't know we were in it until we were knee-deep in it.
	Yeah, and here's the remarkable predictability of things.
	There's this subject that I call the karmic echo.
	It's an echo of a lesson unlearned.
	Individuals have lessons.
	You know, the law of action and reaction is what karma is about, for those who don't know.
	You do something, something happens.
	You do good, good happens, etc.
	Bad, bad happens.
	Well, it also expands to collective mindsets.
	People that are born under a conditioning that says, I'm an American, and I follow American ideas, and I perceive the world For better or worse, in an American perception, other countries train their children, or other cultures and religions train their children to see things in a certain way.
	We have, as a country, that as well.
	And every 20 to 40 years, a country faces a karmic collective lesson.
	And if they don't learn it, it repeats itself in every 20, 40 years.
	Is that what's happening to us right now?
	Well, not only that, but it's amazing.
	You have so many parallels.
	Forty years ago, a Texan was president, got us into a quagmire, and now forty years later, a Texan is president, got us into a quagmire.
	I don't think anybody at this point would deny that we are certainly in the middle of a quagmire.
	Possibility, in your way of thinking, or that of Nostradamus, that this will be the current crisis.
	What we're going through right now, dire as it looks, John, might be still resolved diplomatically.
	Well, I think there certainly could happen a back away, just like when the Samara mosques were exploded.
	We see this pattern already in this war, where flame back away, flame back away.
	Just like I was saying in the beginning of the show, the 30 years war in Europe was the same way.
	They fought one or two battles a year, and then didn't.
	But it lasted 30 years, and eventually did degrade and kill half of the Central European population.
	But it took a long time, and this seems to have that cadence, and we already have seen a pattern in this war, when Abu Zarqawi blew up, with Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, blew up the Samarra Mosque.
	For a few weeks there, everybody stepped into full-scale civil war, and then backed away.
	Seeing the abyss, people backed away, on both sides in Iraq.
	But, months, six months later, It just lurched forward into that in the same place it was, in fact, even worse now.
	Boy, it sure feels like we're staring straight into the abyss right now, and it's staring back.
	So to answer your question about, let's say that a ceasefire happens.
	Under the nature of these signs right now, it would only be a respite to prepare for more war.
	Hezbollah is not going to give up its weapons.
	They are fighting as proxies of Iran, fighting Israel.
	America is wanting Israel to destroy Hezbollah and the American administration because they're fighting a proxy war with Iran, with Syria being the pipeline.
	You have a situation where because Hamas, a terrorist organization, has taken over the Palestinian government through democracy, But still, a terrorist organization that's dedicated to the destruction of Israel, certainly Israel cannot tolerate such a government.
	So it has isolated that government and tried to undermine it financially.
	Hamas turns to Iran and now is being financed and supported by the most radical nation in the region.
	So what I'm gathering here is that there are certain times in history where These hammer blows fall because opportunities were missed.
	We had an opportunity to either go into war and destabilize Iraq in 2003 or not do that and keep it isolated, Saddam Hussein, in a box.
	We had a choice, the U.S.
	government, everybody had a choice in 2002 to say, Maybe he does have weapons of mass destruction, Saddam Hussein, but maybe we should just let the United Nations give him six months, as they ask, to go snooping around there and see if there's really anything there.
	And one thing you can say about that, if that decision had been chosen, there'd be 2,500-plus Americans still alive today.
	There would be a couple hundred thousand Iraqis still alive today.
	Iraq would not be... Here's one way that I see the whole damn thing could blow up.
	I'm a Vietnam era guy.
	And I recall that for a while it was very much thought in the White House that Cambodia Was in support of North Vietnam or at least a lot of what was occurring in Cambodia was in support of North Vietnam so Covertly we began as you know from history a bombing campaign in Cambodia And it sort of was never admitted.
	I watched the b-52s take off every day.
	I just wonder if a similar sort of proxy situation that will not be publicly acknowledged might begin to occur with either Iran or Syria and Oh yes, and it happened in Laos too, and what you're seeing is, Laos and Cambodia, 40 years ago, have become Lebanon and Syria, have become the West Bank and Lebanon.
	Lebanon is in a similar, here's that pattern of history repeating itself again.
	Lebanon is a weak country, just like Phnom Penh's government in Cambodia, beset by powerful organizations, nations within a nation, like the Khmer Rouge, And Nordom Sihanouk, the president or prince who was running Cambodia, did his best, but it fell apart, and when you had the big superpowers trying to bomb Cambodia to stabilize the weak government, you got pulled apart.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	The parallels are absolutely chilling if you just sit down and consider them briefly.
	So what could be learned from this?
	I mean, I'm sorry that I have to scare everybody with this, but it's sort of like, I hope that if scaring is all that's left to us in this situation, there's still the positive possibility of being scared straight.
	And how we are scared straight is that when history rubs our nose in it, for instance, look at what happened with the Germans.
	They had a similar problem with the Karmic Echo about their militarism.
	They had a chance not to go to war in 1914.
	They did go to war.
	They lost.
	Now, they didn't learn the lesson of 1914.
	They tried the democracy stuff, but they didn't really want it.
	They wanted to listen to somebody like Adolf Hitler, who spoke in absolutes, And they got a second round 20 years later.
	So I was saying, it's 20 or 40 years these things happen, these cycles of karmic echo.
	And look what happened.
	Germany was nearly wiped out in the second attempt.
	Now... All right, buddy.
	Well, listen, you scared the hell out of me.
	They learned it.
	They learned it.
	They didn't do it again 20 years after that.
	There was no German militarism.
	They finally as a nation understood that they can go a much more positive, life-affirmative way.
	I'm sure you're going to get a lot of questions about all of this at the top of the hour when we begin taking calls.
	In the meantime, just to get away from this for a moment, I would like to do it.
	You've been making accurate political predictions now for decades, particularly concerning the presidential elections.
	We've got a midterm coming up.
	What do you see?
	Well, if there's no voting fraud, the Democrats will probably win.
	Not because they deserve to win, but will probably win the House and the Senate back.
	But I'm not so sure that it's going to not look very similar to the way it was before.
	And if it does, then there's a lot of voter fraud going on.
	I do think, though, that time is against the current people in power.
	There's a tremendous frustration in the country, because it seems like neither side is really engaged in the public's needs.
	If the Democrats were to win those seats, I think that there would probably be impeachment proceedings in the following year against President Bush, and I think that The Democrats would make the wrong assumption that the American people are behind them, and they're not.
	It's sort of like what happened with Le Pen and Chirac in France in the last five-year cycle of presidency.
	They have a two-step system of electing people in France, and a whole bunch of people run, and then it's the two people with the largest number of votes that run the final phase of the election.
	And Chirac had only one man running against him, and that was the extreme right-wing Le Pen.
	And everybody in France, except poor Mr. Le Pen, seemed to get it that it wasn't a mandate towards Le Pen's neo-fascist ideas, but a statement of anger from frustrated French voters to Chirac.
	Now, Chirac, the day after that secondary election, Preliminary election got up in front of the French people and said, I've heard you.
	I understand what you're saying, and I will change what I'm doing.
	And he won.
	So Penn then didn't get scarcely a vote.
	I'm seeing a similar thing building up in an American version of that.
	People are going to vote with their anger, because that's what Leo and, uh, Saturn and Leo does.
	If people are unconscious of these forces, they tend to be reactive and angry rather than Use that energy to initiate new and better ideas.
	It's a time for being up in arms, but you can be up in arms and smell the coffee about your own part in this, or you can throw it all on everybody else, and that's the habit.
	And I think what's going to happen is if the Democrats regain the power of the two houses, they're going to get it as an anger vote, not as a support.
	And the sad thing is that many moderate Republicans will be thrown out if that happens.
	Very sad, because then only the most radical, neocon-type people will be left on the Republican side to deal with this.
	Basically, it's going to be a repeat of 1994, only the tables are turned.
	And if you remember, that was when the Democrats lost the House and Senate during the Clinton administration, because they were so frustrated with Clinton back then.
	And in that process, a lot of moderate Democrats, centrist Democrats, were thrown out of office.
	Same thing is now going to happen to the Republicans in 2006.
	Hello?
	I'm sorry about that.
	We had a, for some reason, we had a disconnect.
	A great misunderstanding of some sort.
	I have no idea what occurred.
	Anyway, as you were saying, and I don't know how far you got with the midterm elections, you thought the Democrats, I think you said, if there's no voter fraud, and I guess I could explore that remark, Yes.
	With reference to past elections, but obviously, from that remark, you probably believe there has been voter fraud?
	Well, no, actually, personally, I'm not so sure it is as much as Democrats are screaming about.
	But I don't think, for instance, a lot of people think that Ohio was fudged, and I'm not really thinking that.
	There's always fraud in elections, but I don't think it swayed it that much, but that's my opinion.
	I do think, though, that if with the spread of non-verifiable voting, electronic voting, the danger is, it takes no profit to say that the danger with this very polarized political climate in America is that if you see the status quo pretty much being the same with only a few seat shifting back and forth but not really changing the
	status quo and That's what I would say. Hey this North America is looking
	more and more like South America in its political world arena
	But I'll tell you you've laid it on the line buddy I Hold tight.
	We're headed toward the top of the hour here, John.
	When we come back, in fact, if you want to begin lining up on the lines, when we get back, we're going to take phone calls for John Hogue, who is a world expert on the prophecy of Nostradamus.
	No small matter, considering the state of the world right now.
	From the Philippines, over 7,100 islands, the Philippines, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Right in the middle of Tropical Depression Henry.
	It just keeps on coming.
	Hi, everybody.
	Listen, earlier we had breaking news from the network, which apparently has not been breaking elsewhere, but I just got confirmation of it from my network.
	Thank you very much, Stephen Carr, who sent it.
	And it simply says, Israeli jets bomb suspected guerrilla targets in Lebanon After announced 48-hour suspension of airstrikes.
	So apparently Fox did report that.
	Now whether that was a report in error or others simply have not picked it up yet, we have no way of knowing.
	But there you have it.
	I've got the email in front of me and Fox did indeed report that.
	So we'll simply keep looking into it.
	John Hoog is my guest.
	We're listening to the prophecy of Nostradamus.
	He's a world expert on Nostradamus.
	This has been one hell of a show.
	So, what we're going to do is go to the lines in a moment with John Hoag and allow you to ask questions on any topic you would like.
	stay right where you are.
	Well, as you might imagine, the lines are rocking and rolling for you, John,
	after a program like this, the first hour.
	Even the first hour excluded, with what you said, John, a lot of people want to talk to you, so let us begin, alright?
	Alrighty.
	Wildcard Line, you are on the air with John Hogan, Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Hello there, I'm calling from Toronto, Canada.
	Yes, sir.
	I was wondering, do you see, John, possibly in the next couple of years from your election coming up in 2008 that there could be a third political party created in America combining the most intelligent, reasonable Democrats with the most intelligent, reasonable Republicans?
	What a very good question, actually.
	The climate is very ripe for that.
	I have been putting together a longer article that I'm going to post for a small fee on Hope Prophecy Bulletin exactly on this whole issue.
	We will definitely see a move towards a third-party rebellion.
	The question will be whether it's even possible for it to be a grassroots movement.
	I'm thinking that what will have to happen because of this The duopoly that's going on between the two parties is that one day a few dozen senators and legislators just decide that they don't want to be affiliated with either Republicans or Democrats and just create what may be called the American Party.
	Just simply Americans.
	Not this way or that.
	But trying, I think when we get to 2008 with what's going to happen in the next 900 some That the American people will be probably ready to find common ground rather than be face-to-face with such a protracted, polarizing situation that we start looking more and more like the Middle East.
	Boy, we're beginning to... We're face-to-face with absolute terror as far as I'm concerned right now, John.
	Well, terror can...
	I always say, when you've been in 30 years of prophecy work, you're always dealing with so many negative, scary things, but there are actually very positive prophecies waiting for us if we get tired of playing with these little dramas and start kind of looking at why each of us participates collectively and individually in a dysfunctional civilization.
	And the good side about 21st century really is that It's such a crisis-packed time that people are just going to have to embrace evolving into something higher, or they're just not going to make it.
	Well, I certainly hope you're right, but referencing what's going on right now is a little drama.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogue and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	Hi, John.
	It's a pleasure to talk to you, Art.
	I got a comment and a question.
	I just have to say that your description of driving, your driving escapades in Manila was outright funny.
	The horns and the non-stop, no one stopping.
	Stop signs here are decoration only.
	But my question to you, John, is what do you think about 2012?
	Does anything in Nostradamus come, in your opinion, of impending disaster in that year?
	Very good question.
	It's a good question.
	I had a number of emails just now, one from Tangen Wan and a few other people that wanted me to talk about that too.
	2012 is a much more ballyhooed year than the year that the real changes are going to come.
	And that's much sooner.
	It's in the year 2008.
	2008, there is a, I'll say it as short as I can because it's a bit complex, but there
	is a grand cosmic cycle in prophecy called the cosmic year.
	And it's a time it takes the Sun from the position of the Earth to move in the vernal equinox all around the 12 zodiac signs.
	It takes just under 27,000 years.
	We are at this moment at the end of one of those years and the beginning of a new year.
	A month in the cosmic year is about 2,000 years long.
	That's like the Piscean Age was last month.
	The Aquarian Age is the new month.
	A day, a normal day in the cosmic year, consists of two 36-year-long parts.
	One is the daytime, the yang, the assertive, the initiating time, and the other is the yin, the harvesting, the reaping time.
	Last time we were in this situation of a big shift in history, Was back in 7273.
	And a lot of the things that have dominated for better or worse our society and our world started then.
	International terrorism from the Middle East really got going then.
	The Munich attacks in the Olympics.
	Yom Kippur War set the stages for the border clashes and problems that are happening today.
	Watergate set us on the course of where Americans feel abandoned by their governments.
	And good things, too.
	It was the beginning of people exploring with different religious ideas from the East.
	Some would say that was a good thing, some would say it isn't.
	But there's a lot of things.
	The oil, focus on oil, the oil embargo, all that started in the last big shift.
	So at the very least, 2008 is really the time where we're going to see a shift.
	All the things that we've seeded in this daylight time of the cosmic year, we enter cosmic night and we read.
	For the next 36 years.
	A listener from Kent, Washington says the following, amazing show art, one of your best in a while.
	I think everyone can feel everything that John is talking about.
	The mood in America is dark and not good.
	I wonder how much more Americans can take?
	War?
	Gas?
	Our economy?
	Maybe even a draft?
	How much more?
	Well, the good side about, in an astrological sense, the good side about this Energy is that it's a time for being up in arms it really is a time for people to kind of look up look around and and do like the 60s song said hey, what's that sound everybody look what's going down and And we're in that again 40-year cycles repeating that what that song was describing And so does feel that way yeah, and it'll have some things that are similar, but it'll but it's also a different time so
	In a way, that time was almost the time that created polarization.
	The potential for this time is that because it's so dire and dangerous for our country, for our future, people will have to seek common ground because of the emergency.
	Not because they want to seek common ground, but they have to.
	And that's where I think a third-party movement in 2008 will definitely kick into gear.
	Has a real chance.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogan.
	Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	My name is Mark.
	I'm in South Dakota.
	You're talking about an American party.
	I'd never heard of anything like that before, but about two months ago, for some reason, it just came up with the idea.
	Has there been anything in the media about it?
	Because, like I said, I've never heard of it, and I just came up with it myself.
	I'm in the same boat.
	I just came up with it.
	It just felt like it just came to me, and I've heard many people say this, which reminds me of that there were like three or four people who were working on the theory of relativity when Einstein was working on it.
	And he was the first one to actually talk about it.
	There were several people working on evolution when Darwin was thinking about it.
	So you think it just may be some sort of collective idea that's dawning on a lot of people at the same time, John?
	I think it is.
	I think it is.
	It's a grassroots, collective thing that's being born out of the crises of our time.
	And that's a good thing.
	That's a good harvesting for the end of this cosmic day.
	Okay.
	I hope there's a cosmic tomorrow.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening.
	This is Irish.
	I'm on the island of Hawaii.
	Oh, yes.
	Hi.
	From island to island, welcome.
	Okay.
	Thank you very much.
	First off, you don't go to the West of the Rockies often enough.
	You're George.
	You should push us aside.
	Well, here you are.
	Actually, did you say you're in Hawaii?
	I'm on the island of Hawaii.
	Yes, indeed.
	Well, that would put you way west of the Rockies.
	You guys don't go to the west of the Rockies often enough.
	I'll bear it in mind.
	Okay.
	Quick thing, Art.
	Can I write you care of the same snail mail address that I had for George Norrie?
	No.
	Well, uh, wait.
	Um, yes you can, actually.
	I suppose ultimately the mail would get to me, so if you want to write, uh, to that address, I'm sure the network ultimately would, uh, forward it to me.
	So, sure.
	Okay, thank you.
	Okay, Mr. Hogue?
	Yes?
	Are you a doctor?
	Do you have a doctorate?
	No.
	Okay, I once had your book.
	Actually, I still have it, but it's still packed underneath tarps, because my husband and I, before he died, I just moved from one location to another and I haven't been able to get it unpacked.
	Which book do you have?
	It's somewhere back there.
	I hope it isn't ruined underneath the tarts in the rainforest.
	It was your hardback book, The Prophecies of Nostradamus.
	It was an old one that I got.
	I bought it from a library book sale.
	It had been withdrawn.
	Ah, oh well.
	And I hope it isn't ruined because we have It's a long story, but anyway.
	People like you and the Earthquake Guy.
	The Earthquake Guy?
	I can't think of his name right now.
	Synergy?
	Ah, yes.
	Ben Rose, California.
	Anyway, your question is?
	The question is, why do you, people like you and Scallion and Michael Gordon.
	Gordon Michael Scallion.
	He's ignored Hawaii and Alaska like we're red-headed stepchildren.
	You never fit us into the prophecies.
	I'm financially trapped here because my son's husband's deaf and I can't move back to the mainland where I can move with the flow and I'm terrified.
	Now my husband and I both used to work for the government.
	He worked for the government up until he had his heart attack and I don't know the new codes because he changed them on the computer of how to access his stuff because he was tracking terrorism here in Hawaii.
	Alright, well listen hon, with some of the prophecy that's been going on for all the rest of us, I wouldn't be too anxious to be included.
	But John, why not?
	I suppose Alaska and Hawaii are forgotten in so much of what we talk about.
	Is there anything she should be watching out for in Hawaii?
	Well, I'm trying to pick my brain to see if there's something in there about that.
	I'm thinking about Polynesian prophecies.
	I'm thinking about what Edgar Cayce said.
	Actually, Alaska is referred to a lot in Earth Changes Prophecies.
	So is Hawaii.
	predictions about tidal waves and things of that ilk.
	I can't think of anything else to say.
	You know, I bet I said something in that book that's under the tarp in a way, but I just can't remember.
	All right, that's good enough for me.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with John Hogan, Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello, sir.
	Are you okay?
	I'm on a cell phone.
	Yeah, I can tell you're on a cell phone, but I hear you fine.
	Okay, I'm currently near Havana, Illinois.
	I drive a towboat pushing barges on the river.
	You have a large, large River Man audience out here, Art.
	I just wanted you to know that.
	My question, by the way, your show is fascinating tonight.
	My question is concerning the economy and any predictions that John may have on it.
	All right.
	Excellent question, and that's one area that we really did not cover, John.
	Our economy, we sort of mentioned it with something from a fast blast a few moments ago, but the economy certainly is in some stress at the moment as a result mainly, I think, of the energy situation.
	What do you feel?
	Well, two sources always.
	The great Achilles heel of America is, I've been saying for decades, is natural disasters.
	Not terrorism.
	The greatest terrorist that's descending from our skies, unlike what was mentioned in that Nostradamus prophecy from 1999, is something that also happened around 1999, a sudden and sustained spike of global warming.
	Unfortunately, a prediction I made in 1998, which I reiterated on Hannity and Combs in 1999, the last day of the year, that either New Orleans Or Miami would be destroyed in the first supercharged hurricane, super hurricane of global warming in the first five seasons of the new century.
	Unfortunately, the fifth season, it proved right for New Orleans.
	When did you say that on Hannity & Combs?
	On the 31st of December on a show about the Millennium.
	I said it and I've been trying to get back on the show.
	I kind of upset Sean Hannity with my prediction.
	He said, well, you're just a doomsayer, aren't you?
	And I went, no.
	And he said, well, you know, you say this, this, and that about the hurricanes.
	And I suddenly interjected, have you read my book?
	And he went, well, the book in question, One Thousand for Two Thousand, had a thousand predictions.
	It said half the prophecies are doom-laden and contradicted by half the prophecies that give us alternative futures, if we so access them.
	And I said, you know, people who've actually read the book know that.
	And he went, well, okay, and then he went to commercial.
	I've had some similar difficulties with some people at NBC, in reference to a book I wrote, too.
	They just don't want to hear it.
	And then once what you said becomes fact, they really don't want to talk to you anymore.
	Well, yeah, a similar thing happened with me and Robert Kiviet and Kiviet Productions.
	We did a documentary for Fox called Prophecies of the Millennium.
	In 1995, and in that, we, using the properties of Nostradamus, we did a dramatization of the two towers collapsing in the next terrorist event.
	There'd already been the one in 93, and I basically said on the show, and they dramatized it, with the collapse of the two towers, that the next would happen between 1997 and 2001 at the latest.
	Now, I've been trying for years to get a follow-up show to really look at that, They're spooked out.
	They don't want to talk to us.
	I understand.
	Shout out to Matt Lauer.
	And on the wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hogan.
	Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	Morning, sir.
	We don't have a lot of time before the breaks are far away.
	It's an honor.
	Hello, John.
	Hello.
	I wanted to know if you have the opinion that should there be a nuclear conflagration as a result of this next war that we are currently, I guess, beginning.
	Do you believe that there would be any kind of divine intervention or even alien intervention as there has been perhaps in the past?
	I would simply say that it's certainly the wish of the way we're programmed not to take care of ourselves and be responsible for ourselves as a civilization.
	It's certainly a deep urge we have to have somebody save us from ourselves, but my view is that when faced with these disasters, We will have to face it ourselves and fix it ourselves and find whatever's divine intervention that's already latent in our sleeping hearts.
	Boy, do I ever agree with that.
	We just have this feeling, John, that somebody will come along and pull our fat out of the fire.
	And I suppose you never know.
	It could be true.
	It could happen.
	But despite all the prayers that God hears, every now and then, about half the time or better, He says, no.
	It's like, if my eyes are blind, I pose the hypothesis, if I go through life blind to things, then God is blind.
	If my heart is closed, then God's heart is closed.
	I go through my life as a medium to whatever I give to the world, it's like if God needs us to wake up, open our hearts, and rethink ourselves, then God is here.
	Yeah, and that's it.
	All right, John, hold on.
	We're approaching the bottom of the hour here, and I can't think of anything more dangerous for all of us right now than to look at what's going on, for example, in the Middle East and sort of shrug and go, well, it's always been going on.
	It's always going to go on.
	And really, there's nothing we can do about it.
	Collectively, there probably is something that we can do about it.
	I don't offhand this moment know what that is, but I know that shrugging and just sort of imagining that, as it always has, it will simply go away is probably not a good move.
	With that in mind, from the land of over 7,100 islands in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	There is so much truth in music, isn't there?
	It will soon be your tomorrow.
	Sometime, when you get the opportunity, sit down and actually listen to the words to that.
	Forget your sorrows, and forget about everything, because tomorrow will be here before you know it.
	Now, that's paraphrasing, but it's pretty darn close.
	John Hogue is my guest, the prophecies of Nostradamus, our topic and we will be right back.
	Once again, John Hogue.
	John, Michael from Los Angeles, California, notes oftentimes psychics will predict things of a personal nature with a caveat that they can be changed due to our choices.
	However, the predictions from Nostradamus seem to be etched in stone.
	I'm wondering what John feels about society's ability to change what otherwise may be.
	Well, it only appears Like it's in stone.
	A lot of things in Nostradamus, if you look at the whole length and breadth of his many prophecies, show alternative futures.
	A lot of the ones that don't seem to go anywhere have fragments of images that look like something that happened, but not quite.
	An example is his prophecy about the spread of Nazism throughout the German towns, and Principalities of his time, he included Switzerland into it.
	He talked about the Anschluss in Austria, but he included Switzerland, and so if you study it, you realize that there was a very strong Nazi Party representation in the German cantons of Switzerland, who almost joined in with the Austrians into the Greater Reich, but they decided not to.
	So there's an example of something that sounds like it could have happened, but it didn't.
	And after 30 years of studying Nostradamus, I've actually found more opportunities for alternative futures in his prophecies than the ones that we so mechanically fulfill.
	Well, let's hope there's an alternative to what we seem to be facing right now.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
	Good evening, John.
	Good evening, Art.
	I'm calling from Anchorage, Alaska.
	My name is Terry.
	We don't worry about predictions up here, we just take care of ourselves, and I think Art knows that.
	Can I have a comment, you know, about the American party?
	I think there's a lack of energy called voter energy in our great democracy at work here.
	But I have a question concerning the radical portion of Islam.
	You know, when it comes to all the various religions in the world, it seems like in one fashion or another they have They had to deal with the radical element at one time.
	And within Islam, that radical faction has never really been dealt with by the members of that religion.
	And do you see anything in the future, John, for them sort of taking care of themselves as far as that religion goes?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I do.
	I think that it may take 30 years.
	It may take exhaustive war and Self-destruction of a lot of things.
	I think that element is in all religions.
	There's a movement that's strong in Christianity that is seeing... In fact, in the last week, a lot of evangelical speakers are absolutely livid and happy about the fact that it looks like the apocalypse is around the corner.
	I've, in my own context in Islam, seen people As bright-eyed about Doomsday on their side, too.
	And in the middle of all that are a lot of good, moderate people who just want to try to understand the mystery in the guidance that's been given to them, either through Jesus or Muhammad.
	And eventually what's going to happen, they're going to be like that Richard Nixon silent majority.
	Eventually, with all the trouble and stuff, That voter apathy, that religious apathy, will finally get busted, and the impatience to change will happen, and the radicals on both sides will be hosed down, so to speak.
	Yeah, I hope it's not before all the rest of us are hosed down.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Ronnie.
	I'm calling from Pennsylvania.
	It's a pleasure talking to you, Art.
	Thank you.
	First time I've ever talked to you.
	And hi, John.
	Hi.
	I have a question, and first of all, have you ever heard of the book, World Enslavement or Peace?
	It's up to the Pope.
	It was written by Father Nicholas Gruner, that's G-R-U-N-E-R, and other Fatima experts.
	Yes, I'm somewhat aware of it, yes.
	On pages 508 and 509, it states about a Vatican-Moscow agreement See, the Pope was supposed to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Our Lady of Fatima, and he's never done this yet.
	No Pope has.
	Pope John Paul II had his hands tied because of his Vatican-Moscow Agreement.
	He did consecrate the world, but not Moscow.
	And she promised if it was consecrated to her, we would have world peace.
	Now, do you see anything that might get Pope Benedict XVI and all the bishops of the Catholic Church to consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart in one single day?
	And even if that did occur, that would change but only one side, would it not, John?
	Well, the theory is, in the Fatima prophecies, is that Sister Lucia, who Who gave that message purported to, you know, there were three prophecies given to her in 1917.
	She only just recently died in her 90s, but she was a teenage girl at that time, a young teenage girl, and there were three prophecies.
	And it is something that has come up in her letters that the message was that Russia, at the time communist, had to be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary.
	And it is true that if it did not happen, the warning was there would be war.
	In fact, World War II was part of that second prophecy, if the Russians were not embraced into our forgiveness and into our hearts.
	Now, I know that John Paul II was a staunch Marian pontiff, but it's true, there is a struggle in the Catholic Church, in the higher power circles, between the Marians Who even want to go as far as to make Mary the co-redemptrix, mediatrix, to Jesus, a co-redeemer.
	And there's very strong movement for that.
	So it's not seen much in the mainstream, but it's quite a volatile thing that I talk about at length in my book, The Last Pope, which looked at the prophecies of St.
	Malachi, dealing with the succession of popes unto doomsday.
	Now, Benedict XVI is the last in that list of the actual mottos, Latin mottos, and he's followed by an unnumbered person in the list called Petrus Romanus.
	I think it's a welcome possibility that since the last one is not numbered, it may very well be that there might be hundreds of popes before we get to Petrus Romanus.
	So maybe the Apocalypse isn't that close, or it means the next pope will have some aspect or quality of St.
	Peter.
	It might be involved in something related to him.
	He may name Pedro or something like that.
	But I don't know if Benedict XVI, being that he's so much in the heart of the early St.
	Benedict and paralleling so much of what he is doing, I don't think he would probably support any Marian revelations like that.
	East of the Rockies, your return with John Hoek.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	This is Mark in Frederick, Maryland.
	Yes, Mark.
	I had a question.
	There's been a lot of speculation on the Internet about the next Antichrist, and one of them was that the head of the EU, Javier Solana or something like that, they thought he was, and I was wondering if there was anything in the prophecies that would support or negate that claim.
	Well, here's the problem with that.
	The number of the Beast comes up in Book of Revelations as a naming of the Antichrist.
	And St.
	John, whether it was a different John from the Apostle or the same, is still under debate because of the very different Scripture, the way he wrote it.
	It's possible that if you take those numbers They add up to, in Greek, to the name of the person that he intends it to be.
	Now, there's two numbers.
	There's 666 and 616.
	Both those, symbolically, can be spelled into the Greek words NeuroKaiser or CaligulaKaiser.
	So, it's very likely That this European Empire, this man who puts his image on the coinage, is actually a Roman Emperor.
	The same Roman Emperors that put statues in the Holy Ground of the Temple of the Jews in Jerusalem, which is blasphemous to them.
	And so they're considered, it's kind of carried over from Daniel's prophecy into the Christianized version of the Apocalypse in the Book of Revelation.
	The Roman Emperor is supposed to be that man.
	The other thing, too, is it was a popular story at the time that Nero had suffered a blow to the head that was fatal and then rose from the grave to be a false messiah.
	That story was bandied around in contemporary times of St.
	John, so it's highly likely that the pillar of prophecy and revelations about events that were supposed to happen in his time and didn't happen.
	And all this that's been going on 2,000 years is that misunderstanding, and people are now trying to self-promote something similar to that prophecy again in our time.
	All right.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with John Hogan, Art Bell.
	Howdy.
	How are you guys doing tonight?
	Quite well, sir.
	Where are you?
	I am calling from Davenport, Iowa, and my name is Chris.
	Okay, Chris.
	Welcome.
	Hello, Chris.
	A couple of questions for you.
	First of all, I have dreams that come true, pertaining to myself and my family.
	Ever since the North Koreans went and set off their missiles over the Sea of Japan, I have been having nothing but massive dreams every night.
	And in regards to current affairs, My question is, what's your opinion about our government raising the maximum age to enlist into our military, which happened about three or four weeks ago, I think, to the age of 38?
	Well, the obvious response to that would be that we need more people.
	Yeah, I mean, if you look in Iraq right now, you see a Vatican-sized complex.
	That's become the American Embassy in Baghdad.
	You see seven permanent bases being built.
	That's where a lot of that money is going.
	I'll make this prediction right here, that beyond what's being said about leaving and pulling out, until America has an alternative source of fuel to power its great energies, including the Western world, Europe, in the same boat, These people are going to be pulled deeper and deeper into the turbulence of the Middle East until they get off of these things, because that's where it is.
	And I am not at all surprised to see the next president actually reinstalling the draft, because you have to guard the oil fields that keep your civilization going.
	I'm not saying I'm agreeing with this situation, but I'm simply saying... I understand.
	No, this is a prophecy, not...
	Yeah, that I do see a draft coming, and I would say that the people right now, that a lot of the people that are against it will actually send their sons and daughters in five years to do it, because it'll be a question of if you want to have your civilization run or not.
	So we're being pulled into this situation.
	So that's why this war is going to be so long and protracted.
	The fact that the United Nations is now being pulled, is pulling European nations to put a stabilizing force in Lebanon.
	There are prophecies in Nostradamus about the blue-hatted ones that come fight in the Middle East.
	Oh, that's right, there are.
	And the blue helmet of the United Nations.
	And I've always felt that sooner or later the rest of the Western European nations would be pulled into the same conflict that America has gotten itself stuck into.
	It's a tar pit, and until you stop needing tar to run your civilization, you're going to sink deeper and deeper.
	All right.
	On the international line, you're on the air with John Hogan.
	Art Bell.
	Howdy.
	Hi there.
	This is Tony from Toronto.
	Toronto.
	Yes, Tony.
	How you doing, Art?
	And hi, John.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I prophesize the next commercial is going to be like six minutes long, but that's not why I'm calling anyway.
	Listen, my question to you, I don't claim to be an expert on Notre Dame or whatever, but is there a possibility that maybe people just interpret what he says or what he writes in their own way to benefit their own acknowledgement or whatever?
	I don't know.
	I mean, to me it's all interpretation and what we're doing basically, what everybody's doing is basically Playing the Vatican's hand, basically, because to me, I don't believe in the Vatican.
	I believe, as far as I'm concerned, back when they first originated, they were all criminals anyway, and there were thieves, and there were murders, and whatever.
	Well, on the point of prophecy, at least, I could say, yes, there's a lot of things that are open to interpretation.
	However, there are enough things in Nostradamus that show that sometimes you can document a prediction and have it happen.
	I mean, I was Back in 2000, the year 2000, on the 12th of November, when it wasn't clear who was going to end up being President of the United States, whether it was going to be Gore or Bush, I was on coast-to-coast with the impunit, and it's all documented, that I said, well, if it is Bush, looking into this astrology, just calculating what I can see in it, by the middle of his term we will be in a war, a new Vietnam, in Iraq, after 2002.
	He'll depose Saddam Hussein, and then that'll be the easy part.
	Then he'll get the United States Army bogged down in a new Vietnam.
	Boy, between that and the other prediction you made on Hannity and Combs, you're doing pretty well here.
	You're one of the best.
	The strange irony about this art is that, you know, I've gone to great pains to record everything that I do so that we can look at where I got it right or wrong.
	My articles are now at 80% accuracy, but it's really spooking people out now, and it's sometimes harder actually to get the message out now.
	I know.
	That includes me, John.
	You spooked me pretty well tonight if I wasn't already spooked sufficiently in the first hour.
	Listen, you've got a moment to plug something.
	You've got a book, no doubt.
	Please plug.
	Well, the thing I'd love everybody to do is when they get time is to also Just look at hogeprophecy.com, my website, because a lot of things are going so fast now that I'm starting now to release articles.
	There's just no time, actually, to write full-length books like there used to be, because history is going so fast.
	But if you want to get a nice overview of my take on Nostradamus' prophecies without having to wade through all 1,400 of them, I would highly recommend the third edition of my first book, which is under the title, Nostradamus, the New Millennium, which I released a month or two after 9-1-1, and updated many of the chapters.
	And a lot of what I said there is more pertinent now than it was in 2001, and it's a good way to look at all the most interesting prophecies of Nostradamus.
	Well, you know, John, you mentioned yourself that since you've had a fairly high degree of accuracy, a very high degree of accuracy, you've not been treated necessarily all that well.
	And if you look back historically in the world, accurate profits generally have been strung up, burned, or otherwise mutilated.
	Yeah.
	In the book, the other book that's out there, in the biography of Nostradamus I wrote called Nostradamus, Life and Myth, I go through it in detail how when Nostradamus was just entertaining with his prophecies when they first came out, talking about the next few years, and then when the things he talked about started happening, he was arrested, he was hounded, mobs used to gather in the church inquisitors' offices in Paris and burn him in effigy and say, burn him literally.
	Yeah, the problem is it's very predictable.
	Actually, I'm not surprised these things are happening to me, because that's human nature as long as it remains mechanical, and I seek to help in my little way to change that.
	All right, buddy.
	Listen, we're out of time.
	I hope people buy your book.
	I certainly hope they go to your website, and I certainly thank you for this very frightening show tonight.
	John, take care.
	Thank you for the thriller and manila.
	Manila.
	Good night, buddy.
	Listen, everybody, it has been a pleasure.
	This has been one hell of a show.
	I hope many of you have an opportunity to, in some manner, record it and get it to a friend, because it ought to be heard by a lot of people.
	So, from the land in excess of 7,000 islands, Manila, in the Philippines, specifically, I'm Art Bell.
	I'll see you next weekend.
	Have a great week ahead.

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