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June 26, 2005 - Art Bell

02:28:22

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dean Radin - Global Consciousness Project

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58:15

dean radin

01:07:21

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Less is more, our philosophy.
		And that's right, less is more.
		I kind of like that, actually.
		I've always liked it.
		Less is more.
		It is.
		I don't know if you know that.
		Clear Channel actually nationwide cut back their advertising.
		They probably did focus groups or something.
		You know, they said, too many ads.
		So somebody came up with that, less is more.
		And it is.
		And in my case, that's what it's going to mean.
		So in the future, for your weekend hosting, you will be treated to, on Sundays, you'll be treated to Ian Punnett.
		Ian Punnett will own Sunday night.
		And Saturdays, well, Saturdays will be divided between myself every other Saturday and then Hilly, probably.
		George, some of the time, some classic shows, things like that.
		So I'm penned in for quite a while, as they say.
		And I'll be here also, I think, no doubt, for special events like Mo Ghost Ghost, for example, on Halloween.
		And no doubt, predictions for the year coming, that sort of thing.
		But that's the breakdown.
		So less is more.
		And our good friend and highly competent Ian Punnett takes Sunday.
		George becomes every now and then there on a Saturday, live.
		Sometimes perhaps some of the most classic shows you've ever heard.
		Occasionally, Hilly, and every other Sunday, or for two Sundays a month, myself.
		So that's the announcement, such as it is.
		The news, it never changes.
		Suicide bombers.
		You know, that's almost the first two words out of any newscaster's mouth these days.
		Suicide bombers struck a police headquarters, an army base, and a hospital around Masul on Sunday, killing 33 people, a setback to efforts to rebuild the city's police force that was driven away by intimidation and death from insurgents seven months ago.
		At least 14 people were killed in attacks elsewhere in Iraq, including a U.S. soldier whose convoy was hit by a roadside bomb in Baghdad.
		And, you know, you ask, well, how long are we going to be here anyway?
		Our Defense Secretary might have the answer to that, Rumsfeld.
		He said today, Sunday, that he acknowledges the insurgency could go on for any number of years, and defeating it may take us, the U.S., as long as 12 years.
		I wonder if the nation is prepared for 12 years.
		Guess we better be, huh?
		The father of a Dutch suspect arrested in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager freed from jail Sunday, just hours after a judge ordered the release of a party boat disc jockey who had also been held in that case, Paul Vandersloot, a high-ranking justice official studying to be a judge on the Dutch Caribbean island,
		had been arrested Thursday as a suspect for collaborating in a crime, probably not a good thing to do when you're studying to be a judge, with his 17-year-old son, according to his lawyer.
		Making a milestone movement for American religion and world evangelism, the Reverend Billy Graham Sunday preached what could be his last revival sermon.
		Toying with the situation, Graham told thousands of people gathered in Queens that he hopes to, quote, come back again someday, end quote.
		Said he told journalists who asked if this is the end of his revival career, I never say never.
		A lesson I've learned, too.
		Beaches did reopen Sunday with extra lifeguards along a stretch of Florida's panhandle coast where a shark killed a 14-year-old girl as coastal residents reported seeing at least one shark hunting fish close to shore.
		Not all dazzling fireworks displays are going to be on Earth this coming Independence Day.
		NASA is going to shoot off its own sparks in an audacious mission that will blast a stadium-size hole in a comet half the size of Manhattan.
		It'll give astronomers their first peek.
		Inside one of these heavenly bodies, if all goes as planned, the Deep Impact spacecraft will release a wine barrel-size probe on a suicide journey, hurtling toward the comet, Temple 1, about 80 million miles away from Earth at the time she hits.
		You know, if it's a movie, then just moments after the impact, the astronomers do a calculation and they see it's coming straight toward Earth on the next time around.
		But that's only in the movies, right?
		The price of crude oil.
		This is like the movies, too.
		The price of crude oil, ladies and gentlemen, has now vaulted to a new high, breaking through the psychologically important U.S. $60 a barrel threshold.
		As concerns mount that supply will not meet demand, especially here in the U.S., the world's largest energy consumer, of course, after settling at U.S. $59.84 a barrel Friday, the front-month August contract crude surged to an intraday record of $60.46 a barrel in heavy Asian trade on the New York Mercantile Exchange, a jump of $0.62 from Friday's close.
		I guess you all know what this means at the pump, right?
		Listen to the wording of this very carefully.
		Washington CNN.
		Health experts warn that things are falling into place for a global flu pandemic, just like the one in 1918 that killed tens of millions of people worldwide.
		They say it might not be quite as extreme, but by all calculations, very dangerous.
		We're staring down the barrel of a loaded gun, and that gun is ready to fire.
		That's Representative Michael Ferguson, a Republican from New Jersey, at a congressional hearing Thursday.
		Again, quote, we're starting staring down the barrel of a loaded gun and that gun is ready to fire, end quote.
		Health officials at the hearing agree.
		They believe a flu pandemic is inevitable and it will likely come from the bird flu that is now spreading in Asia.
	That flu is dangerous because it is a strain that most humans have never been exposed to, so there's no natural immunity and there is no vaccine.
	But now it's infecting humans.
	The virus, of course, first spread from bird to bird.
	Then some of the people who work with the birds started to become infected.
	53 people died.
	So far, avian flu has only spread from person to person twice.
	But you see, if that becomes more frequent, say experts, a pandemic would be imminent.
	The health officials laid out for a congressional committee what they are doing to prepare treatments and a vaccine.
	The news was not good.
	A vaccine is in development, but since it has to be matched to the flu strain, once it's spreading in the human population, it would take about six months after the first cases to complete it.
	It isn't as if overnight we'd be able to get a vaccine for everyone who's going to need one, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institutes of Health.
	Treatment isn't easy either.
	There is one drug available now that works against this type of flu, but it needs to be given within 48 hours of infection.
	When you start getting the flu, it's virtually impossible to distinguish it from any other upper respiratory infection, so most people don't realize they've got it until way past the 48-hour window, according to Dr. Julie Gerdbing, I believe it is, director for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
	And another story, flu pandemic could kill up to a half million here in the U.S. And of course, you already should be aware we've got a cow, another one, positive for mad cow.
	The U.S. Agriculture Department said that a test of an American cow has come back, positive, for BSE or mad cow disease.
	Agricultural Secretary Mike Johans announced that the animal had been removed from the food chain in November of 2004, that its meat had not been consumed.
	Unlike other countries that use simple and quick testing protocols, the U.S. uses a slow and elaborate system preferred by the beef industry in order to minimize false positives.
	As a result, a test that could have been concluded in a matter of weeks took over half a year.
	The original test on the animal was inconclusive.
	So there you have it.
	All the news worth printing.
	Let's begin taking some calls and devote the balance of this.
	Oh, by the way, coming up next hour, we have Dean Raden.
	And it is appropriate that I should, absolutely appropriate that I should interview Dean tonight.
	You know, it's funny, since we first interviewed Dean, this whole consciousness thing has virtually exploded.
	I mean, really exploded across the board.
	But the genesis of the first real experiments began at Princeton, and Dean Raden is the guy.
	So this will be a very, very interesting evening.
	Wildguard Line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
unidentified		This is Jim from 560 KSFO Hot Talk in San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, buddy.
unidentified		Hey, I was going to complain about the Supreme Court and draw comparisons between eminent domain and medical marijuana, but you know, I want to ask you something different.
		On Classic Clips, you have a 1998 show where I forget the guy's name.
		You interviewed a guy about dangerous animal behavior.
		And during the show, a guy named Joe, who was the bird trainer for Siegfried and Roy, called in.
		Do you remember that show?
		It was about the fact that animals can really turn on you, even if they're your pets.
		They run on instinct and instinct alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I certainly agree with that.
unidentified		Yeah, the only reason I brought it up is because it's interesting to have some proof in the future, even if it's sad proof.
		You know, that guy that was the Siegfried and Roy Brig trainer, he swore up and down that animals were trainable and that they're gentle and not hostile like that.
		But look what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But yes, but, sir, the real truth of the matter is, and they've looked into this very carefully, he was carried off the stage by that cat because he was having a stroke.
		That's the story I heard.
		And that cat was trying to protect him in the way she would protect her young.
		Where she grabbed him is exactly where she would have grabbed one of her young.
		And she was trying to drag him off stage.
		That animal was trying to protect him.
		So I really...
		But that was not the case, as far as I know, to the best of my knowledge, with what I've absorbed about the incident.
		That was not the case there.
		Of course, it resulted in a tragedy.
		However, the instinctual urge in the animal had not gone bonkers.
		In fact, it was very strong, and that animal was trying to save his life.
		Speaking of, we have our own little tiger.
		You can see more of a close-up.
		Now, it's very tough to take a very close picture of something as small as Dusty.
unidentified		Dusty is a very, a very, very little tidbit of a cat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's a little tiny kitten.
		And the lens is virtually as big as Dusty.
		But there's the best I could do in trying to get close up on the webcam this night.
		What a sweetheart.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		It is so great to talk to you tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Let me express my sympathies for the loss of your cat.
		I, too, am a cat lover.
		I have had similar circumstances and understand quite well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The cat was a family member for 15 years.
unidentified		Yes, they are.
unidentified		I have a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And perhaps there's someone in the millions of people that listen to you can help me.
		I live in a swamp.
		I'm a hunter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You live in a swamp?
unidentified		Yes, yes, I live in a swamp.
unidentified		Here on the Del Marvel Peninsula is mostly swamps or marshes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I'm very familiar with wildlife.
		I've been a hunter this September the 1st when deer season opens.
		I will have been a deer hunter for 50 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your problem?
unidentified		My problem is that here in my domain, my little area that I own, there is a snake.
unidentified		The snake I saw one day three times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The snake looks at me.
		It doesn't scurry off as you would expect normally snakes would.
		I've never harmed a snake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think it looked at you in a knowing, malevolent way?
unidentified		No.
		No.
		It doesn't look at me in a malevolent way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do its little snake eyes glow red or anything?
unidentified		No.
		It picks itself up.
		It lifts its head off the ground and looks at me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Every day now, for the past week, I've seen this snake.
unidentified		And every day the snake does not scurry away from me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it makes you think what?
unidentified		It makes me think that it's a sign or an omen.
unidentified		And I don't understand after 50 years roaming through swamps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps, sir, it is the reincarnated collective soul of all those you killed while hunting.
unidentified		No, sir, I've killed very little.
unidentified		A sustenance, subsistence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know what to tell you.
		Maybe, as you say, perhaps somebody in the audience will be able to say what that means, if, in fact, it means...
		I'd be very careful.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
unidentified		Oh, the art.
		Oh, man.
		I'm really glad to talk to you.
		You call me by surprise, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I do to people.
unidentified		I suspect, by the way, my name is Bill, living here in the Seattle area.
unidentified		I suspect I speak for quite a few people when I tell you that I'm very sorry that you are not going to be on, but rather infrequently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Al, don't.
unidentified		I don't blame you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do not be sorry, for I will be out adventuring in a motorhome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will be doing lots of fun things.
unidentified		Well, you deserve that, but I'll tell you, my friend, I look forward to the weekend so much.
		George is fine, but like he said, and I know it sounds a bit corny, pal, you are the master.
		And I almost, this sounds a little trite, I almost live, well, not quite, for a weekend, so I can see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good, so that wouldn't be much of a life.
unidentified		Well, I suppose not.
unidentified		But anyway, I'm sorry you're cutting it back, but I will still remain faithful, and I can't thank you enough for what all you've done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you, sir.
unidentified		You bet you're.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
		It's very kind.
		Thank you.
		I've been, you know, when I sat down in front of the mic tonight, I realized, my God, I've done this a lot of times.
		Actually, all of my adult life, I've been in front of a microphone.
		It sort of sunk in, you know, as I sat down tonight.
		And that's okay.
		It's been great.
		First time, caller line, you have achieved being on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Well, hello, Art.
unidentified		You've got Brandon out here in North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Just a quick question about ham radio.
unidentified		I was kind of curious what type of rig you actually bring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of rig I have?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm kind of a blessed person, so I have a combination of a number.
		I have a brand new Yesu 9000 Delta, FTDX 9000 Delta.
		I've got a ICOM 7800, the best that Alpha makes at amplifiers, and an antenna that could speak to the stars if it was so inclined.
		So I've got quite the rig.
unidentified		Oh, that definitely blows my little TS530 out of the water.
unidentified		Did you ever figure out exactly what was going on with the voltage from your antenna?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The voltage from the antenna, no.
		However, I'll tell you something.
		Among other things, on the side of the house, I've got a big kind of a Dracula switch so that when storms are in the area, despite the protection I already have, I can go out there.
		I mean, it really is a Dracula-like switch, you know, one of those giant things.
		And when you throw it, when you get the switch down into the off position, a blue spark about a half inch long will jump to the terminal before you close the switch completely.
		Now, that's some damned high voltage.
		You know, not a cloud in the sky, a very gentle breeze.
		Every time I throw that switch, that's what I get.
		Now, that's a lot of voltage at not very much current.
		Could it be used to some effect?
		Could it be harnessed?
		I don't have the answer to these questions.
		I honestly don't know.
		But it's never gone away.
		It never will go away.
		Whatever it is, it's constant and it's really there, sir.
		So we'll investigate it more, and one day we'll know what this is.
unidentified		Well, recognize all I needed.
unidentified		73 to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, 73 to you as Well, that in ham radio land means sort of see you later.
		Best wishes.
		Enjoy the conversation.
		A million different things, kind of a goodbye.
		All right, so we will continue taking calls through the top of the hour.
		And then again, at the top of the hour, I'm really, really looking forward to Dean Raden.
		I think that in my years of doing this, nothing has excited me as much as the realization that this is dead flat reel.
		The End To you, the people west of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Oh, I'm in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Two, three years ago, something came up, and I thought it was on your program, but I'm not sure.
		It was about somebody you were interviewing, and they were from a university up north somewhere, and it said a professor or something, and they had experimented with a mixture of baby oil, detergent, and water mixed.
		And what they did was they used it with a spray, and he claims it would kill anything but the common cold.
		What happened was that whatever the biological thing was, it would accept it inside and it would explode.
		The big advantage of this is they could spray it on dogs, animals, anything, and it wouldn't hurt anything.
		Do you remember this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Dr. X's magic elixir.
		No, I don't.
		So it would cure anything but the common cold.
		I wonder what that says about the common cold.
unidentified		Well, I guess that must be pretty potent, I guess.
		But I've got a copy of the thing somewhere that somebody gave me, and I know it was on the show.
		I don't know if it was on George's or yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you find the recipe, I'll tell you what.
		Nail it into some email and send it to me, and we'll see just what it will and won't kill.
		Baby powder?
		Detergent?
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe somebody else recalls.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Sherry.
unidentified		I live in Perromp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sherry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Perump?
unidentified		I do, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listening to what?
unidentified		Do you?
unidentified		And unfortunately, and regrettably, I was not aware of you until just a few weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, K-N-Y-E is what you were supposed to say.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
unidentified		I'm in the Kingdom of Nye is where I'm at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I wanted to ask you, when Highway 160 was opened up into the four-lane, I think it was in 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I forget the year, but yes.
unidentified		It was right after it had been opened up in the four-lane.
		There was no traffic.
		So I was relaxed.
		I was driving, and the whole entire sky was just blue.
		There were no clouds except five clouds directly in front of me to the north of Prump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have a lot of days like that.
unidentified		The clouds, I noticed them because they were oval.
		They were so perfectly shaped.
		And there were five of them, but they were lined from top to bottom like one, three, and five.
		The second cloud was to the left of one and three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ventricular clouds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They come from wind.
unidentified		Well, what happened while I was watching them, they compressed.
unidentified		The second cloud got underneath the first, and then the fourth cloud lined up underneath the third.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cool.
unidentified		And the five clouds compressed into one large cloud while I was driving down the highway watching this.
		And then I started seeing things come out of the cloud, and it was metallic.
		I could see that they were metallic.
		And I was looking at it and trying to rationalize something that was completely irrational right in front of my eyes.
		I got home here to prompt.
		I came in the house.
		I got my binoculars.
		I went down to my mother-in-law's.
		I'm telling her there's something happening in the sky that's unnatural.
		And we got the binoculars out, and her and I watched this for like three hours.
		And then in the left over by Shoshone, all of a sudden, this great, big, giant cloud appeared that was kind of like a sundog that was all iridescent.
		And then a line cut through that large cloud.
		And then we sat there until 7 o'clock that night and watched metallic things go from the cloud that had compressed into that cloud on the left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many years have you lived here?
unidentified		I moved here in 1999.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1999.
		Well, things like that are unusual things that would be very, very unusual for most places here in Prump are so usual that they're almost not unusual.
		I mean, we just have a lot of interesting, unusual things flying in our sky here.
		That's all there is to it.
unidentified		Had you ever seen that before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen clouds like it.
		I certainly have not seen the things protruding from them that you're talking about, but I wouldn't be surprised.
		I've had two of my own really whoop-de-doop sightings out here, and they're not unusual.
		People, of course, since I, along with my beautiful wife, own a local radio station here, we get calls all the time whenever there are sightings, and that is pretty frequently.
		We get calls about it, of course, immediately.
		So, yeah.
		The desert sky is very clear, very large, and we all know there are things going on out here.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		This is Blair in Sedona, Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		One last mention of Deep Impact, and I want to talk about the bugaboo of having free will.
		We have a local, a magazine called the Sedona Journal of Emergence.
		The July 2005 issue has Project Deep Impact Comet Tampel 1 talking about some of the things I've been able to talk to you about, of the incredible backlash of energy coming from the center of the comet.
		And if we take a very small bullet, an enormous amount of damage can be done to the human body.
		Well, just think what's going to happen if this is the same situation with living energy on that comet and an unusual energy stream coming back to Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then we'll be sorry.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		Well, you know, love is the constant, you know, and even though there are spirits in the universe that exist and maybe can speak through trance channels, not everything can be proven.
		But you do believe in love, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
unidentified		Yeah, you can't measure it, though.
		And then that's the part about the free will.
		Love is at the root of everything.
		It's what we're seeking in every relationship and everything.
		We're seeking love.
		And the fact that we get distracted or feel unworthy or not enough attention or go for money or this or that, it's our free will at work walking away from love.
		We can walk right into it.
		It's our choice in every moment, every situation, and every day.
		And Art, you're the man, and have a good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like a great line in a great movie, free will, it's a bitch.
		One of my favorite sins.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there.
unidentified		I'm calling from Toronto.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that was not free will.
		Now that I come to think of it, it was, what the hell was it?
		Ah, well, the sin will come to me.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I'd like to talk.
		You were talking about oil earlier, and one thing that concerns me, I guess, as a Canadian, first off, I don't know if your listeners know that Canada or Alberta supplies half of the oil to the U.S. at this time.
		And apparently, I was reading last week, right, that the Chinese, which is communists we all know, are bidding to buy the rights to the oil sands up in Alberta.
		Their dollar doesn't float, and they don't really participate in the world, in my opinion, very well with labor, the way that they pay their common laborers and what have you.
		I just think I'd really prefer to see this stay in the hands of North Americans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somehow it's not going to happen.
		The truth of the matter is the oil market is a world market.
		And it doesn't matter where the oil comes from, whether it comes from our own earth, Canada's earth, Alaska's earth, the earth in the deserts under the Middle East, or the Spratly Islands, should they discover it there.
		Wherever the oil comes from, it's a world commodity, and it's going to be driven, the price of oil is going to be driven by the world market, which now absolutely includes China.
		And by the way, it was vanity, that final sin.
		Some of you will know the movie I'm talking about.
		Nevertheless, there was a line in there.
		Free will, it's a bitch, huh?
		And that was the moment that he chose to defy the devil with that free will.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, I had a question for Art that had to do with a discussion he had with Robert Dean last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, you are talking to Art.
		I don't have anybody to answer my calls.
		I answer my own calls.
unidentified		Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what about Robert?
		What a privilege here.
		What about Robert?
unidentified		Okay, well, sir, last night he was, I made a connection with something he was talking about that had to do with the possibility that our creators may have deposited us or manipulated our DNA or the DNA of the human race as early as maybe 10,000 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I have been a staunch scientific believer in evolution for many years, and last night I kind of was jarred by the fact that the creationists that we have among us on this planet may have some valid, oh, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Valid points?
unidentified		Yeah, a valid voice.
unidentified		And it's something you would have heard me say before last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one way or the other, it's creation, right?
		They created us, he created us.
		He created them.
		They created us.
		I don't know.
		One way or the other, it's creation at work.
unidentified		Well, yes, sir, that's true.
		The question I have, though, is, how do you, I mean, if, since I do have some idea of what, you know, creationism is, and the fact that Mr. Dean was talking about what he did last night,
		how does anybody explain the fact that hominids or our ancestors, you know, the fact that we came from a common ancestor, or is what we've been told for many years, how do you explain carbon dating for fossils that are supposedly millions of years old if we were only deposited on this planet 10,000 years ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know.
		They said that there was a genetic change that was made, perhaps that long ago.
		Now, mankind is on the verge of himself becoming a creator, aren't we?
		We're actually very close to it.
		And I guess that's like becoming a parent or becoming a grandparent.
		Mankind is now quickly approaching the point where it will become a creator.
		And in what different way will we feel then?
		How will we feel when we can create life?
		What different position does that put us in when we can create, cause the spark of life ourselves, even create new beings or bring back old ones that are now extinct?
		When we can ourselves create?
		What will that be like for mankind?
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Cleveland, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, excellent.
unidentified		And I want to talk about hyper-optics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And from the beginning and maybe even negative densities.
		And how it leads to creation from the point of zero and then you get to hyper-optics.
		And because of that, you can't see through the first part until it gets to the quagmire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not following you.
unidentified		Well.
		And once it hits the C, you know, C for light speed, then you get what we can see.
		But prior to that, you can't because it's in a different dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying something traveling at faster than light speed.
		That we don't see it or we're not able to observe it until it hits light speed.
		Yeah, okay, I've got it now.
		It may well be that things are traveling faster than light, although I think Mr. Einstein would be very upset by that possibility.
		But it could be that they are, and as this caller points out, we don't observe them.
		We don't observe them as being part of our reality until they hit light speed.
		Interesting thought.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm a longtime listener of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a very bad connection, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, we've got a lot of thunderstorms around here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is here?
unidentified		Madlock in Manitoba, Canada.
		Okay.
		And I was looking at a spot CIA report, and it reports that you've got 161 million trillion cubic meters of natural gas.
		So I got some doubt about whether or not there's a shortage of energy in the world or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
unidentified		I really don't think we do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
unidentified		No, I don't think so.
		I think what...
		Well, I think it's a lot like when the dairyman comes to the store and he puts the older milk frontwards in the shelf and he puts the new stuff to the back.
		I think they're trying to get rid of the old stuff?
		Well, they're trying to get rid of the crude before they sell us the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, what I've heard, I've heard some stories, and they include the fact that oil companies are not building new tankers.
		Some are saying that new tankers are not being built, and the reason for that is that they know at some point they're going to run out of oil, or they have enough tankers to carry what's left.
		That's pretty scary to think about.
		I don't know that it's true, but it's been said by a number of guests on this program.
		And when you look at the investment capital of the oil companies, some say that it seems to be diversified from their own business.
		In other words, they don't seem to be reinvesting in their own business.
		That, too, if true, would seem to indicate a knowledge that they're not going to be doing that kind of business for a long time, which may mean they know something we do not.
		Watch the price of oil.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, Art.
		The movie that you were referring to would be...
		City of Angels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		I believe that line is in that movie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, try again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not it.
unidentified		Oh, well, damn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has something to do with a lawyer and the devil, and that's about all the hints I'm willing to give.
		Turn that off.
		Yeah, Devil's Advocate.
		Bingo, finally.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's the movie.
		And you may recall toward the end, Free Will is a Bitch.
		That was one line.
		And then the real clincher at the very end, Vanity.
		Ah, Vanity.
		My favorite.
		God, that was a great movie.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		I'm calling from Mesa.
		Yes.
		Talk about consciousness tonight.
		I've tried to get this word off before, but I've always need to call it during a break or something.
		Ask him if they've ever done any type of studies or componded studies having to do with what would happen if the whole world, if they were all conscious at the same time, or if the whole world was asleep or unconscious at the same time, what would that have to do with, like, how would that affect reality?
		You know, they say reality is based on what our consciousness is.
		You know, I've heard that through like Buddhist teachings and things like that, that everything we perceive around us is based through consciousness.
		And I'm wondering if what would happen, like, if everybody on the whole planet was awake at the same time, or what would happen if everybody was asleep at the same time?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe absolutely nothing.
		I mean, that's a fascinating question, because if there's nobody to observe, nobody at all to observe ongoing reality, then is it actually ongoing?
		Or does a simple fact of observation propel it into action?
		Interesting question.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		I just did.
		Okay.
		Three things.
		I'll be as brief as I can.
		First, I'm definitely going to miss you, and I'll be looking forward to when you're back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Second, have you ever thought about just how much RF energy is blasted into the atmosphere 24-7 by everything from satellite radio to cell phones to ham radio all the way down to U.S. Navy ELF?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you could see it, it would be a soup so thick that you couldn't see a thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's fortunate we can't.
unidentified		Yes, it is.
unidentified		But I'm willing to bet that that's what's giving you your 300-plus volts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about that, sir.
		The only radio station in Prompt is mine, which is an FM station, which wouldn't resonate in an antenna that large.
		And there's no AM stations within 65 miles of here, so I don't think that one works.
		Anyway, next, we're short on time here.
unidentified		Final thing, see if you can get Raleigh James in occasionally on the weekends.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that was only the second thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said three.
unidentified		First, I love the show.
		Second, third, Raleigh James.
		Yeah, that's all three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Very good, sir.
		Thank you very much.
unidentified		My best to Ramona and all the kittens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Done.
		Thanks.
		East of the Rockies, just a few seconds, but you're on the air.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Turn it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, all the way off, actually.
unidentified		Off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Don't eat up your seconds.
		Turning off your radio.
		Proceed.
unidentified		Turn it off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to say something because this hour is ending.
unidentified		What was that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm saying that you need to go ahead and say something because the hour is ending.
unidentified		Oh, my dog.
		My dog.
		My little brown-eyed love.
		I look in her eyes about four different times.
		I've seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An M.S. in electrical engineering and a Ph.D., so it's Dr. Raden in psychology, both from the University of Illinois.
		For 10 years, he conducted research on advanced telecommunication systems at AT ⁇ T Bell Labs and GTE laboratories.
		Then, for the majority of the last 20 years, he has investigated psychic phenomena in academic and industrial positions.
		Dean served as a member of a classified research project investigating psychic phenomena for the U.S. government at SRI International, headed PSI research programs in Silicon Valley for two scientific and industrial think tanks, has been senior scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences since 2001, and is also adjunct faculty at Sonoma State University in California.
		Dean's research has been featured in numerous magazines, and he's appeared on several radio and television programs.
		In addition, he is author of the book The Conscious Universe.
		Now, for those of you who would like something really creepy to do tonight as you listen to the program, I'll probably get in trouble for this, but go to Google and put in Princeton eggs.
		Like Princeton University, that's what it is.
		And then eggs.
		Princeton eggs.
		And if you can get to the actual website of the eggs themselves, and you don't think it's creepy, we're going to explain to you in a few moments exactly what it is you're seeing and hearing when you view the Princeton eggs on your computer.
		But it is a totally creepy, creepy experience.
		It creeps me out every time I do it, but I love it.
		So go ahead, go to Google and put in Princeton eggs, and then it'll kind of set the mood because you're going to hear it all explained here in a very few moments with Dean Rayton.
unidentified		Mario's music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In all the years that I've been doing talk radio and this kind of talk radio, I've never found anything that I've been more interested, fascinated with, and in fact sure of, than I have this whole consciousness thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dean Raden, welcome to the program.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's good to hear you.
		And you as well.
		Now, I just finished sending a whole bunch of people up to the eggs.
		They're kind of fun, kind of interesting.
		I mean, it's, I don't know, perhaps somewhat meaningless to just sit and watch them, but there's some sort of intriguing creepiness to it all.
		And they're going to be sitting there watching those and listening to that heartbeat-like sound with the dings and gongs every now and then.
		And they're going to be wondering what it is they're seeing because they're new to all this and have no idea what we're talking about.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I'm interested in why you're referring to them as creepy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		There's a because to me, they are kind of creepy.
		Not in a horror movie creepy kind of sense.
		Just, I don't know, sitting there looking at perhaps understand.
		I think understanding what I'm looking at and hearing is a little bit creepy.
		I mean, you know, that may be consciousness we're observing at work in its random and sometimes not so random way.
		So I yeah, creepy in that sense.
		That's all.
		The magnitude of it, I think, Dean.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So I assume you're talking about the little dot that will change color and the sounds go along with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		What that's showing is a close to real-time representation of the degree of order in a worldwide network of random number generators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, each one of those little well, when I see it, I see bars.
		I guess it depends on how you have it set.
		But I see some bars that go up and down and the sounds and everything.
		And each one of those separate bars represents a computer someplace or another in the world, right?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these computers are generating as close to a random number as can be generated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Each device is fundamentally random, at least as far as we know through quantum mechanics, there is no known way of predicting what each successive random bit will be.
		So it's theoretically and fundamentally random.
		And the exciting thing is, and perhaps the creepy thing is, that at times they no longer act random.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And so what we're interested in in this project is looking at the correlations between our inference of worldwide events, events that attract a lot of interest, and the relationship between those events and the appearance of order in these random generators.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe I said creepy because a couple of times when I've been there, Dean, all of a sudden, it did kind of go berserk.
		I mean, I've had people, you know, email me and say, hey, tonight the eggs are really going nuts.
		And so I'll get interested and I'll go take a look.
		And sure enough, it's gong, gong, gong, gongs from everywhere.
		And it's just jumping around like crazy.
		And that's where the creepy comes from, because I have the feeling that I might be looking at the precursor to some kind of big event.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's possible.
		I mean, in a sense, you're looking at a form of the pulse of the planet.
		It's a form of pulsing that is much closer to mind than it might be to a heart.
		But, of course, you also have to keep in mind that when you're looking at random events, that it's very easy to start seeing patterns where There actually are no patterns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, the problem encountered really with the entire project, right?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		And so we are very careful in our analyses to make predictions in advance and make analyses in advance.
		In other words, we use planned analyses so we don't fool ourselves into seeing patterns that actually aren't there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And now this has been going on.
		This project has been active for how long now, Dean?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		In August, it'll be eight years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eight years of recording this, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it always roughly the size it is now, or has it grown during that eight years?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, it started with three random generators, and now it's stabilizing at about 70.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At about 70.
		So, again, so people understand, these individual computers, about 70 of them, scattered around the entire globe, are spinning out as close to random as one can imagine, practically, I guess, really random numbers.
		And there is this tendency for the computers to simultaneously, or very nearly simultaneously, take off and become non-random.
		And that's when the alarms and the gongs and the bells go off.
		Depending on how much non-randomness there is.
		Now, over these eight years, it has been studied very carefully.
		We've looked at very large world events like 9-11, like I'm sure the tsunami, the earthquake, things that have just affected the mind of just about everybody on the globe.
		What would you summarize as a result so far, Dean?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, there have been a total of 199 events of the types that you've mentioned.
		Of those, 186 are considered formal events, formal in the sense that they're very precisely specified.
		And some of the others were more vague, so they're dropped from the formal analysis.
		So of the 186 formal events, the overall odds against chance as of now, basically, is 50,000 to 1 in favor of order appearing when there shouldn't be any.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		So now you've got some numbers for us.
		The possibility of these 186 being reflected, however, they have been in the project, would be about 1 in 50,000.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Odds are really starting to tip in our favor here, aren't they?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, the odds have fluctuated over time.
		At one time, they were over a million to one, and then they bounced down, and now they're bouncing back up again.
		So we're beginning to learn now that we have so many different events that some of the events produce a measurable Effect and others don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any pattern to the kind of event that produces a larger reaction?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		We think so.
		For example, one type of event that we might think would produce a reaction, in fact does not, and that is natural disasters.
		So people have asked, well, what about the tsunami?
		The tsunami did not produce a significant result using our standard analysis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor the earthquake that precipitated it.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, nor the earthquake.
		But we've now - this is partially a result of the way that we analyze the data.
		You know, as I said, in order to be clear that we're not trying to look for patterns, we use a standard form of analysis that may not be appropriate for each one of these events.
		And so we've gone back now and looked at 55 events that we call impulse events.
		These are things like earthquakes, terrorist attacks, and so on.
		They're not planned.
		They start at a very specific time and then they persist for some time afterwards.
		When you look at those events, and by the way, most of those are natural disasters, besides the terrorist attacks, they're mostly natural disasters, which don't tend to give a very interesting result.
		You can do what's called a cross-correlation analysis, where you look at the moment that the event occurs, like the beginning of an earthquake, and then you slide in time the data.
		So you slide forward in time, you slide backwards in time, to see if the event has something like a precursor.
		You know, maybe there's nothing happening at time zero, but if you start going back 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour before the event, maybe there's something happening before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Similar to what we saw in 9-11.
		And as it turns out, there is.
		For these impulse events, the 55 impulse events, there is a precursor, and it kind of looks like a wave, the way the graph is drawn, that's between two and four hours in advance of the event itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So it's as a result of many years of analysis and looking at this in new ways that we're beginning to learn what happens in the network based on the kind of event that's coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, so that I'm clear, with regard to the tsunami, was there that precursor?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That was an earthquake event and part of the impulse, part of the 55 impulse events we looked at.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So I don't know specifically for that specific event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess I was going to ask whether it was just sort of human-oriented events, I don't know, like the United States going to war, for example, something that we were all aware of but still wouldn't happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or whether in Earth movement type events, geophysical events, where humans are not involved, there simply is not the kind of output that you can read.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have another analysis where the 55 events, by the way, were ones that were registered.
		We have a registry of these events.
		But of course, there are earthquakes happening all the time, and we didn't register all of them.
		So one type of analysis simply looked throughout the entire database where every time there was an earthquake of at least magnitude seven, some of them we got and some of them we had missed.
		And for those events as well, these kinds of other impulse events we had missed, they also show these effects.
		So which makes it even more interesting because what we're trying to do is see whether or not it's that we, maybe we as the analysts are just picking favorable times.
		You know, we're dealing with a large random walk here.
		And if we could somehow psychically or intuitively guess the right kind of event to choose, then maybe we're the result.
		You know, it's not like we're not creating patterns that aren't there, but we're impressing the pattern somehow through ourselves, and it has nothing to do with the global consciousness.
		But that kind of argument begins to go away if it turns out that we go to events that we had not considered previously, and they show an effect as well.
		And that does seem to be happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you name the kind of event that really has sent it off the charts?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, unfortunately, terrorism seems to do a pretty good job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		One of the largest effects ever was the first event, which were the embassy bombings back in 1998 that turned out to be al-Qaeda, although we didn't know it yet.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Bombs in Yugoslavia, big train crash in India, and then occasionally these large-scale meditations will also produce a big effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is that so?
unidentified		Yeah.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		These big planned meditations.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		One of the more recent effects was Pope John's funeral.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That was predicted, and in fact, that got a significant result.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And then an almost significant result for Prince Charles' wedding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what to make of that.
		Nor do I. Previously, and Princess Di's funeral was a very large effect, also.
		So something like things that attract a very large scale of attention by lots of people.
		Whereas, and unfortunately, negative events tend to do that more often than positive events.
		Whereas natural disasters will attract a lot of attention, but they tend to be diffuse.
		They're spread out over long periods of time.
		And most people have an attitude of while they're paying attention to it, it's tragic and yet unavoidable.
		So there's a different emotional valence that's associated with natural disasters that is not there when we're dealing with human events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Dean, do you think that if we had, instead of one computer at each location, we had two computers at each location, with one of the computers in each case being inside a Faraday cage, do you think the output would be any different at all?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No.
		And the reason I say that is because the random number generators are actually built inside metal boxes.
		So the guts of the generator, which is based on quantum noise, are shielded.
		Is already shielded.
		And the box is connected to the computer, and the computer is grounded.
unidentified		Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It's in a pretty good cage already.
		And actually another interesting question that we looked at is what would happen, given that we get data from each device every second, what would happen if we looked at the entire analysis for the even seconds and then looked for the odd seconds?
		Would we get a similar result?
		And the answer is yes, you do.
		What that means is that whatever's going on is acting as though it's an external effect, which is consistent with the idea that there's something out there which is impressing itself into the generator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, isn't that fascinating?
		Isn't that fascinating?
		Anybody have any guesses about how that could be happening?
		I suppose it jumps right up into the quantum world, huh?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It's something to do with quantum mechanics, probably, and it is acting as though it was a field.
		I mean, we talk about field consciousness, and we use that initially as kind of a metaphor, but it seems to behave in that way.
		It's as though the medium itself, physical medium that we live in, is not purely like classical physics has said, but it involves something else.
		Whether the something else is mind or consciousness, we don't quite know, but the medium itself seems to be modulated in some way.
		Because otherwise, all of the usual ways of thinking about electromagnetic interference and so on, they just don't work by design.
		The random generator is hidden from all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe whoever wrote the line in Star Wars about, may the force be with you.
		Well, crap.
		Looks like we crashed the egg server.
		Hey, Dean.
		You know, it was a while ago that you and I first talked, and since that time, I've had a range of guests on Dean, a giant range of guests, and it's sort of like the whole thing has exploded.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Which thing are you referring to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		The whole consciousness thing has exploded.
		The awareness of this power, if it is a power, this field, you said field, I guess that's a good word for it.
		The existence of this field has been discussed by guests in all kinds of different, with all kinds of different interests, let me put it that way.
		So, my goodness, awareness is way up in this field, isn't it?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would agree.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I think we first spoke maybe eight or nine years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And since then, the academic interest and popular interest in consciousness and quantum mechanics and how they might interact really has exploded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right through the roof.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I spent all day yesterday being interviewed for the next version of the movie, What the Bleep?
		What the Bleep Do We Know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So that's an example of a combination of theatrical film and documentary that basically came out of the blue and has been a wild success.
		I mean, and who would have thought that a movie that's trying to portray the meaning of quantum mechanics would be a big success?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who would have thought?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that there are these additional years under the belt of the project itself, is it beginning to gather enough evidence so that more academics are going, I guess we better take a look at this?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't say that the Global Consciousness Project alone has done that.
		There is a confluence of additional evidence from other kinds of psi experiments, but the combined evidence is becoming strong enough now that it's difficult for people not to pay attention to it anymore.
		I mean, if someone really doesn't want to pay attention, they can ignore it very nicely.
		But for the many of the rest of us who are open-minded about it and recognize that if it's true, it's quite important, the strength of the overall evidence is pretty solid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder, Dean, as awareness of consciousness as a field or a force becomes generalized, if that would affect significantly, for example, the results being gathered at Princeton, I would imagine it certainly could, couldn't it?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it would affect that, and it could also affect any kind of experiment that involves consciousness in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we know just from laboratory experiments that motivation is an extremely important element in these experiments.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So if there's something like a building public excitement and interest, that will invariably affect these experiments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think, Dean, and I know this is asking you to walk way out on a plank that you probably wouldn't want to walk out on, but do you think that massive amounts of public consciousness directed could have an effect on a thing or a system like weather or complex systems,
		a small effect with a big ending, perhaps the butterfly effect kind of thing, I don't know, or maybe even something stronger than that.
		Could it affect things?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know that the answer is yes.
		Or at least that's what the data is suggesting.
		I mean, the Global Consciousness Project is looking specifically at that very issue.
		It's a little bit different in that what you're asking is whether focused intention by lots of people could do it.
		My guess is yes.
		We know that simple attention and not even focused attention, but just attention on something, anything, will make a small effect in these generators.
		The problem with, I mean, you can imagine something like a television show or a radio show where millions of people are asked to simultaneously think certain thoughts or direct their thoughts.
		The problem is that these phenomena seem to be involved in some way with the notion of coherence.
		It's not simply that there's a lot of stuff being thrown, but it's stuff of a certain kind.
		And by analogy, the mysteries in quantum mechanics are due to something called quantum coherence.
		And if you don't have quantum coherence, then all of the mystery goes away, basically.
		It looks like a classical system.
		That seems to be true for these kinds of effects as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In quantum mechanics, it's my understanding that two cells that have come from the same place on opposite ends of the Earth will be noted to react the same way at the same time.
		I've had really good scientists on here trying to explain to me how this might be.
		I can't wrap my brain around the fact that there's not a kind of a communication taking place in the way we understand it, going at light speed.
		But obviously it doesn't go at any speed.
		It's beyond speed.
		It's beyond time, it seems.
		So this field, how is it allowing two objects to react the same way at the same time?
		In some ways, certainly we can't grasp.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, the reason why it's difficult to grasp is because common sense tells us, and classical physics formalizes, a model of the world which involves, which essentially is like a large clockwork mechanism.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It's a world in which space is absolute and time is absolute and things work by balls and sticks touching each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And communication doesn't go faster than the speed of light.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And so all of those are usual ways of thinking.
		If somebody says, how do you explain this, this phenomena of, say, entanglement, how do you explain it?
		What they have in mind is an explanation which has to do with clockwork gears and that sort of thing.
		But we're really talking fundamentally here about the fabric of reality.
		What is the fabric of physical reality?
		Quantum mechanics says it is something completely unlike what common sense tells us.
		And that's why it's so difficult to wrap your mind around it.
unidentified		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		As far as I can tell, the interpretation that I resonate with was the one that David Bohm gave, which is that we live in a holistic medium.
		The physical fabric of reality is a holistic medium, which means that everything coexists with everything else.
		He called it the implicate order.
		Our common sense shows us the explicate order, the world of appearances.
		But underneath it is the implicate order in which everything is wrapped around everything else.
		It all coexists.
		So when you see an example of either two particles which are entangled, as in the physics lab, or, I think, telepathy, two people who are entangled at a distance, the reason why it appears as though there's a signal between the two, that is an appearance.
		It's not actually what's happening.
		What actually is happening is that we're seeing two things which at some deep level are actually the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that's hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really hard.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I've developed this idea to say, let's just assume that quantum mechanics is telling us that we really do live in a holistic environment.
		I mean, one way of thinking of it is we all live in this giant bowl of clear jello, and you're kind of locked in place in this jello, but any movement, any movement, any action, any thought will ripple out and affect the entire rest of the pool of jello that we all are living in.
		So this is not quite right because in jello, things are in separate locations, but it's a metaphor.
		So in this medium that we live in, everything is affecting everything else.
		Everything reverberates out and is touching and feeling everything else.
		That means that the physical brain is entangled with everything else.
		Every movement, every electrical activity, every thought is radiating out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly would explain a lot of the otherwise inexplicable, wouldn't it?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you then go through, you say, okay, let's assume that's true.
		What would that be like if that were true?
		What would it feel like experientially if, in fact, at some deep level, everything is connected?
		And I went through the list of known psychic effects that people report, and they all make sense.
		They make sense from a point of view that there are no signals passing, and it's not like there are lightning bolts coming out of your head that somehow go to the right place.
		All of the phenomena like remote viewing and telepathy and precognition and so on, they make sense from a point of view of a different kind of physical medium that we live in, as opposed to some kind of exotic force.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that conventional physics is going to ever be able to deal with it?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I think we're getting close.
		I think, you know, the ontological implications of quantum mechanics are nowhere near worked out.
		And I also don't think that quantum mechanics is the end of the road in physics, just the latest road in physics.
		But if you follow the history of physics from classical to quantum and then where it's pointing beyond that, I think that the answer is definitely yes.
		We will eventually understand psychic and mystical experience from a scientific point of view, and it's going to be related very closely to what physics says about the nature of the medium in which we live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, that'll be the day when traditional physicists are explaining to Us how people are able to read other people's minds or can draw a bridge that somebody's looking at half a world away and the environment they're in.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I think it's going to be sooner than we might think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'll be the day, won't it?
		It's going to be hard for them.
		Or maybe it won't be hard.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I actually don't think it's going to be hard at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think so?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, because when the time comes that all of the ideas fall together, it'll suddenly make sense.
		And then people will, you know, they'll hit themselves in the head saying, well, why in the world did it take so long to figure this out?
		And I think one of the keys that we'll probably see within the next decade will be a demonstration of bioentanglement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bioentanglement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would that be like?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we see in the physics labs now are entanglement of elementary particles.
		It might be called physical entanglement.
		Bioentanglement is when we start seeing that in living systems.
		We'll first see it in things like biomolecules, and then we'll see it in enzymes, and eventually bacteria, and so on.
		There's no theoretical reason why such entanglement cannot exist.
		We haven't seen it yet, but that's more due to limitations and apparatus that we have rather than a theoretical reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't mean it's not going on now.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it is going on.
		See, this new book that I've written called Entangled Minds, the whole theme in the book is saying that if we follow this sequence of logic from classical to quantum physics and then entanglement and bioentanglement and so on, if we keep going in that, eventually you're going to end up with entanglement at the human level in minds, entangled minds.
		What would that be like?
		Well, there are experiments that we've already done, been doing for decades, that suggest that two people can exchange information, both consciously and unconsciously, at a distance and well shielded and all the rest, and we never find any forces.
		We don't find any signals.
		We don't find any reduction of the ability at a distance.
		All of that doesn't make sense from a classical physics perspective.
		It makes a lot of sense from a quantum perspective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we hear about two or three or four inventors virtually working on or inventing roughly the same thing and getting into patent fights and all the rest of it, as so frequently happens, are we seeing, do you think, some sort of entanglement that's occurring in human minds at the same exact instant?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It may well be.
		I mean, that phenomenon may be similar to spontaneous telepathy that occurs between people.
		Especially given in that case, and with inventors, they're all kind of thinking along the same lines anyway.
		There's always multiple people working on the same problem.
		But if the same novel idea arises in a bunch of people at the same time, it looks like there's some large-scale correlation that has been created.
		And that is essentially what an entangled system would look like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it causes plenty of entanglements, that's for sure, because people automatically say to themselves, bull, this was my idea.
		I know exactly when it occurred to me.
		I know when the light bulb went off.
		This was mine.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		In a truly entangled, holistic system, there is no isolation.
		Nothing belongs to anyone.
		It all belongs to everything.
		I mean, it would take a really significant change of worldview to get your mind wrapped around that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe one day we'll see a lawyer defending somebody with a defense of quantum entanglement.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I can envision that.
unidentified		Yes, I can see that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So can I. So can I. He had the idea because he had the idea because the idea was there.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The idea permeates us all, and some people were more sensitive to it than others.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		By the way, we're going to talk about these and many similar things at the IONS Conference, which is coming up July 6th through 11th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The IONS Conference.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The Institute of Noetic Science.
		Every two years, we have a conference.
		We try to bring together all of the leading edge thinkers having to do with consciousness and healing, spirituality, psy research, quantum physics, and so on.
		And so if you're interested in hearing a cell biologist and an astrophysicist debate a mystic and a monk, then this is the conference for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It ought to be one hell of a year.
		I'll say that.
		I mean, this is hot stuff right now.
		It really is hot stuff.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's coming up in July 6th through 11th in Arlington, Virginia.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		You can look it on our website and see all about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm imagining it will be very well attended.
		Well, we hope so.
		No, I think so.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		We face an interesting embarrassment here, in a sense.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It's like an embarrassment of riches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		When the Institute of Nometic Sciences started out some 30 years ago, discussing consciousness in a serious way was considered the farthest fringe.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It was like nuts to talk about consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And it really has exploded now.
		It's become almost, in fact, it has become mainstream, even within the scientific community.
		So it's becoming more difficult to get a large convention of people simply because there are many conventions that are doing this now.
		We like to think our conventions are better, but, you know, I'm biased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this is the way, through conventions like this, that we will begin to grasp an understanding of how big this is, what it all means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there are so many questions about it.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the conventions are designed for public discussion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And mostly you're scientists and scholars who are giving the presentations, but it's for a public audience.
		There are other conferences which are designed for scientific audiences.
		And I think that's really where the leading-edge action is taking place.
		And there's some very Interesting things to report about that.
		Oh.
		For example, ten years ago, I may have mentioned the invisible college.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you did, yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		This refers to scientists and academics who are very, very interested in these topics, including Psy, but who have been very reluctant to talk about it because there's this taboo that you're not supposed to talk about certain things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The size of that invisible college has been really increasing in the same way that public interest has been increasing.
		But it is also beginning to morph in an interesting way.
		Some of the people in academia now, some of whom are very distinguished folks holding endowed chairs at major universities, have been conducting their own cy research successfully and not talking about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and since i i'm a bit of a lightning rod for these things i get contacted by a lot of people all over the place Obviously, many of you are very interested in all of this.
		The Conscious Universe is Dean's book.
		You ought to grab that, Amazon.com.
		The Conscious Universe, that's a starting point.
		The conference coming up is another.
		Dean, again with the conference, please.
		When is it going to be?
		And more importantly, how do people line up to get in or what do they have to do?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The conference is officially titled Consciousness and Healing.
		It's July 6th through 11th in Arlington, Virginia, which is right next to Washington, D.C. And the place to go, easy place to go to register is the IONS website, which is www.ions.org.
		And it's featured on the homepage, so you'll see it right off the bat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's easy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		www.ions.org.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		I really think there are going to be a lot of people there, deservedly so.
		You know, I sort of joked, this could become a new religion the way humans are these days.
		Probably it could, or maybe it's an old religion, or maybe it's going to be both.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I think that there's an exciting element here in that people, I mean, it is often said that the reason why magic and religion persist is because of uncertainty.
		You know, we would like to have safe, predictable lives, but we don't.
		And so we look for answers elsewhere.
		I don't think we'll ever, as humans anyway, be completely risk-free, but science and spirituality are beginning not exactly to merge, but at least in the old days, like water and oil, they would immediately separate.
		Well, now we're getting to something which is where the oil and the water are beginning to penetrate a little bit, and the universe is not ending.
		So I think it's a very exciting time where the rationality and precision of thinking in science is beginning to address issues which are of very deep interest to a lot of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how many years away the day is when a scientist says, we can now explain how somebody reads somebody else's mind.
		We can tell you how it happens, or the way it happens.
		Maybe not so long, huh?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I would say that we're within two or three decades.
		That's exciting.
		I think the principal problem is going to be one of language initially.
		They'll have to come up with different ways of describing events which are outside the scope of common sense.
		And that's always been difficult.
		But that's why science is full of jargon, basically.
		You know, if you're trying to take a mathematical explanation and someone says, well, how do you describe that in words?
		Sometimes you can't.
		You have to come up with new words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've explained as best you could this to me, but honestly, I still am, you know, I'm a speed of light guy and I'm a communication is taking place kind of guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even if it's taking place faster than light or in a way that we don't yet understand, I'm still a guy who thinks that particle A has to talk to particle B through some medium, that there has to be communication there for the same thing to happen at the same time.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in the physical universe that I've been brought up in, there's no way to explain that.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And that's exactly where the resistance has come from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then the Jell-O didn't get it for me.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Jell-O is not quite right because it's not really a medium of that sort.
		But I've been really struggling to try to find metaphors, and there are no metaphors.
		You know, this idea of a connective medium is not new.
		It's the basis of Eastern philosophy, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why I said maybe old religion.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And they are the metaphor, there are two metaphors that have been used in the Eastern approach.
		One is that the medium is like the ocean, and that what we see as independent objects are droplets that are pushed up by waves in the ocean.
		So they're momentarily there, and they will have their own little existence, but then they drop down and they become absorbed into a larger medium.
		That's one way of thinking of it.
		And the other one is a metaphor of a forest, where you look at two leaves on a tree, and the leaves are shaking the same way at the same time.
		And it looks like one is sending a signal to the other.
		but in fact they're connected to the same trunk and the trunk is shaking and it's a common cause that is giving rise to two things which are separate and yet they're not separate in another sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to have to be a whole new way of...
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		It will require a major shift in worldview.
		And those kinds of things do not happen Quickly.
		So, even though everything else is accelerating, information is accelerating, and so on, this is a big one because it's probably similar in some ways to 1905 when Einstein came out with his theory of relativity.
		And it took a long, long time for people to begin to wrap their mind around what he meant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True enough.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		You know, it took a couple generations.
		Well, this is more difficult than that, so it'll take even longer.
		But it'll happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a father of this?
		Is there an Einstein yet for this?
		Is there somebody we should look to as authoring the beginning of the understanding of this?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		Not yet.
		I mean, at some point, someone will be very clever and figure out a way to describe this in ways where people say, oh, that's how it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		We're not there yet.
		But that's partially because the implications of quantum mechanics are not worked out yet.
		We really don't understand yet many of the fundamental mysteries.
		And it's partially because of this language issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it probable that there is immense power somehow entangled with all of this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That there will be a power?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Every new piece of information or knowledge carries power.
		Knowledge is power.
		So is there power?
		Yes.
		It's a peculiar sort of power, though, because in a holistic medium, yet another metaphor is it's as though you're looking, you're trying to examine your eye by looking in a mirror.
		There are certain ways you can look and see directly into the phobia, but it's very difficult or even impossible to look at the side of your eye using your eye.
		And the whole point about a holistic medium that makes it difficult to understand is that it involves recursion at every level.
		You can't poke it without it poking back and changing in the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say holistic, you mean the connected aspect of everything?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, everything is connected.
		It sounds a little bit like a tautology.
		Arguments that involved that seem to be empty.
		It's like an empty argument because everything is everything.
		And yet, that does seem to be what quantum mechanics, at least one interpretation of it, a number of theoretical physicists are beginning to propose the idea that everything really is connected to everything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It clearly seems to be the field that remote viewers work in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you looked carefully at remote viewing, skeptically at remote viewing, and what conclusions have you come to?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, remote viewing is not that different from telepathy and precognition and all the rest.
		While I've looked at all of the experiments in great gory detail, when you look at the whole batch of them, the reason why I just use the word psi is just a placeholder for some form of connected information flow.
		And one point is your head, and the other points are anywhere in the universe, anywhere in space and time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would seem.
unidentified		Yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And so the evidence is quite strong that while it sounds kind of nutty as compared to what common sense tells us, the phenomena still exist, and the phenomena don't seem to care whether we think it's nutty or not.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		They don't go away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've been told by some recent guests, Dean, that as quickly as it seems to be exploding here, in China, for example, they don't have the same scientific prejudices that we have here, and that all of this is moving much, much faster.
		And they may be approaching an understanding faster than we are, or have the basic ability to think about things in a different way that allows them to be ahead of us in this area.
		Do you know anything about that?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've heard something very similar just recently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I would guess that you're correct, that part of it is a different language, different cultural history, and probably somewhat less of a taboo in the academic world.
		And so, yes.
		So at some point the Chinese may be well ahead of the rest of the world in understanding.
		Of course, the fear that arises is the one that you already mentioned, which is that knowledge is power.
		So if someone gets a significant increase over somebody else in terms of understanding, then that probably can be used in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Used.
		Dean, there would be one school of thought in remote viewing, and it's certainly predominant, that you might be able to look at something on the other side of the world and describe it.
		You might be able to find something.
		You might be able to learn if somebody's alive or dead, or you might even be able to discern what their line of thinking is.
		But remote viewers are very careful to talk about remote influencing.
		But some of them do admit that indeed it may be possible, and that would be that an individual or a group of people intent with will on influencing the mind of another on the other side of the world might be able to do that.
		Is this something that your imagination says might be possible?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's more than imagination.
		The laboratory evidence suggests that that's true.
		We don't know whether the word influence is exactly correct, but we do know That if you take two people and separate them and have one think thoughts at the other, that the other person's body will respond.
		And so you don't need a large leap of faith to imagine that the right kind of training or talent in one person could affect another.
		I mean, what we see in the lab are basically an arousal of the autonomic nervous system.
		It would be like as though you gave somebody a triple espresso to speak.
		You know, they've become jittery.
		So we see that.
		We can see that in the laboratory, and it's not even that difficult to produce that kind of experiment anymore.
		So if we amplify that up, we scale it up a few thousand times, if that were possible, then I could imagine you could start pushing around somebody's blood pressure or make them particularly anxious at a distance.
		Whether it has a healing response and whether it has a damaging response to the person, I don't think we know enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Equally possible.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I'd have to say it's possible.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		We don't see that in the lab, but we're not generally trying to do that in the lab either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many of spiritualities suggest that no, the negative can't be done.
		The universe won't allow it.
		You know, that only good things, healing and so forth, can be accomplished.
		But there are others.
		For example, I've interviewed some witches, Dean, and they say, hogwash.
		It is what it is.
		They have different names for it, but they can say it can be a negative force as easily as it can be a positive force.
		It's simply dependent upon the intent of the person.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's probably correct.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, partially because our notion of what's good and bad are relative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed so.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So if you might be doing a very good patriotic act, which involves harming somebody at a distance, but it's for the good of the larger whole, it still means it's a negative event, but maybe it's not so negative from another perspective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all in perspective.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you do imagine something like that, a negative effect on somebody, could be achieved.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's plausible given what we know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That seems to me to be something that would be so outrageous and such a gigantic power that we could not afford, and when I say we, I mean, our government, our leaders could not afford to not take notice of all this building proof leading to something like that possibility.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope people are paying attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they've got a lot to pay attention to these days, and that probably seems rather sort of off the wall and esoteric to them, but I don't think so, Dean.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, but also keep in mind that as with any form of force or power, there are many ways of getting a job done.
		So it's probably much, much easier to use conventional methods if you wanted to make somebody feel ill than it would be to have a billion-dollar crash program and finding the best psychics in the world to do it.
		So that as a use of this phenomena would not seem to be a very wise use of the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, perhaps not.
		But are we, I mean, as far as I know, the remote viewing program has been terminated.
		And when you speak with remote viewers, they say that it was basically because of the embarrassment of those involved in even doing something that off the wall.
		They claim very good success in the program.
		And that as not the reason that it was terminated.
		Not because it wasn't reliable, not because it didn't work, but because people were embarrassed.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's probably true.
		I mean, we know the phenomena exist.
		We know that there are some very talented people who can use it.
		But again, it kind of comes down to this same question of if we have multiple ways of getting information, and some of them are very highly reliable technologies, then why bother with this other method?
		And I mean, the answer to that is that this other method can do things that other technologies cannot.
		But it involves humans, and so it's not going to be perfect.
		And you have to be willing to put up with that.
		So that's part of the issue.
		There are also issues of personnel and who's running the program and all kinds of other political things that come into play.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's certainly true.
		Is there any indication to you that the government, with all this explosive interest, is seeing any of the implications of this?
		Have they reached out and touched anybody yet?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Well, of course, if I did know, I couldn't say.
		But I'm not being coy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's also a very good answer.
		And you're right.
		Of course, you could not say.
		But it's hard for me to imagine that some forward-thinking people in our Defense Department wouldn't want to know what's going on here.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I can guarantee that there are forward-looking people in the Defense Department who do pay attention to this.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		whether they do something about it or not is a whole other matter but people are paying attention
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When those eggs went crazy before 9-11, I say before 9-11, before the event actually occurred itself, I wonder what they were reacting to.
		Dean, now, it's egocentric probably to believe that it's just human consciousness that's causing the jumping up and down when it does.
		But, you know, really, if you take the holistic approach, then it's not just human consciousness.
		It might be the consciousness of every living thing on Earth or maybe even beyond living things.
		I don't know.
		Do you?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, but we have been looking at this issue.
		One of the ways of looking at it that I've looked at is on New Year's.
		Y2K is the one I spent most time on, but we've looked at it for the other New Year's that we have in the database as well.
		The interesting thing about New Year's is that it's a very predictable moment, typically around five seconds, that happens at the transition of New Year's in each time zone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So for Y2K, since it had the largest effect, I looked at the seven years of New Year's that we have, and five of them showed similar effects in the same direction, and two years, for some reason, had effects in the opposite direction.
		I don't know why.
		So I looked in more detail at Y2K and decided to separate the time zones from high population time zones and low population time zones.
		As it turns out, that for the time zones that are over the Pacific Ocean and pieces of the Atlantic, there's hardly anybody there.
		And then for the rest, over land masses, there's lots of people.
		So I created a partition of approximately 6 billion people in some of the time zones and somewhere around 5 or 6 million people in the remainders, mostly islands in the Pacific.
		And if we're dealing with something that is related to human consciousness, then we would expect a much larger effect for the 6 billion people than for the 6 million people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, you do get one.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		You get a difference in the direction that the high population time zones had a bigger effect for Y2K than in the other time zones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a wow.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so that suggests that the whales and dolphins don't care, or they don't know that Y2K is occurring, and the insects don't seem to care, nor do the rocks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I guess that's the way you end up proving all of this with experiments exactly like that.
		You begin to break it down.
		I had never thought of doing that.
		But you're saying it tracked.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It did seem to track, yeah.
		It's not a wildly significant difference.
		The odds against chance are 80 to 1, but it did something.
		You know, it's in the predicted direction, and it would be considered statistically significant.
		We'll just have to take other events like this.
		And, of course, New Year's is a unique event in that it only has meaning in each time zone.
		So we haven't really found other events that are easy to test in this way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dean, how's the support at Princeton for the continuation of this whole experiment?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, the leader of the project, Roger Nelson, is retired now.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So the university is not associated with this at all anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Other than through Roger, who's now emeritus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to me it should be at that level somehow or another.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So where have the reins now gone?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Roger is still very active.
		In fact, more active in this project now as the leader in retirement because he has other duties he doesn't have to do anymore.
		So that's why the website has been changed recently to that Roger and others are refining it and they've split it more clearly into two parts.
		There's a part that has to do with the technical and the scientific side and then the second part which has to do with the aesthetic and poetic notions of global consciousness.
		Last May the major analysts got together for a conference and we were discussing what should we do next and what are the analyses that we want to focus on next.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd be interested in that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What should you do next?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, part of the issue is looking at things like these impulse events.
		Given now that we have almost eight years of data, we're able to look at long-term trends.
		We're beginning to look at things like environmental issues and whether they make a difference.
		For a long time, we've been discussing the notion of having a parallel network.
		I mean, in order to really nail down the issue of what is causing this effect, is it us, the experimenters, or is it the world?
		One way to do that would be to have a completely parallel network that we don't look at the data until we've already analyzed the data in the first network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that would be good.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And that way, if we get an interesting effect in the first network, then we go back and look at the second one, and if we get the effect there as well, it begins to lessen the possibility that we created it somehow.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		This is the same reason why we look at even and odd seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And so far, using the one network that we have, the evidence is pointing in the direction that we're not solely responsible for these results.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		They seem to be arising from some other place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		What is the love study?
		What was that?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The love study refers to an experiment in entangled minds and bodies where you take a couple and a bonded couple of some type, typically a spouse or spouses, and separate them in two places, monitor both of their physiologies, and stimulate one of them with the live video image of the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And when that stimulation occurs, to look in the body of the non-stimulated person to see whether or not they respond.
		So conceptually, it's as though you take two people, you separate them, you poke one of them, and you see if the other one flinches.
		We call it the love study because, in this case, they're long-term bonded couples, one of whom is undergoing treatment for cancer.
		And so the partner of that patient is trained in something we call compassionate intention.
		It's to give the partner something to do for their loved one.
		It's to send them beneficial thoughts.
		They go through this training process and then they practice it daily for three months.
		And then they come in the lab and we see whether or not there's some kind of connection between the two at a distance.
		Not necessarily a healing connection, but a physiological reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you find it?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		We do.
		We also have another condition, which are people who have not yet been trained.
		So there are couples, one of whom has cancer.
		So these couples, by the way, are extremely motivated to have some form of connected feeling.
		This is unusual in a laboratory experiment because you can't fake that kind of motivation.
		So they're extremely motivated.
		They really want these connections to work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		We have the trained group.
		We have a weight group, and then we have a control group of healthy couples where there are no health issues around.
		So we're essentially looking at the role of training and of motivation in this experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And how strong is the result?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Overall, if you combine all of the people, 40 couples went through this, it's very clear evidence that one person's thought does have an impact on another person's body.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		What we have not found is significant evidence that the training made any difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And I think it's partially because there's a strong correlation between the degree to which the sending person responds to the stimulus and the degree to which the receiver reacts.
		So in the worst case, you have a sender, like a sender-receiver pair.
		The sender falls asleep, and so they're not responding at all.
		In that case, the receiver doesn't respond at all either.
		So oftentimes people don't fall asleep in the experiment, but if you've been doing a daily meditation practice for three months, you get so used to having your body become very relaxed so quickly that you simply don't respond very much anymore to any kind of stimulus.
		So I think what we may be seeing here, that what appears to be evidence that the training is not working, might be confounded by the fact that the trained people are simply not reacting as much.
		And we can see that because we look at the physiology of the sender, and the trained senders are not responding as much as the untrained senders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you remember a little while ago I asked you about perhaps it was more than just people, maybe animals, maybe even things.
		But my mind goes back to this really incredible 2020 experiment.
		It was on 2020 on TV.
		You know, the classic one about the master coming home at odd times and the dog knowing that the master is coming home.
		I mean, there's just no question about if they had the fright on the dog.
		You could see the dog knew the master was on the way home at this unknown time.
		That dog knew.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that would seem to be the same kind of thing that we're talking about, except between human and animal.
unidentified		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, yeah.
		I think it is the same phenomenon.
		When we look at the receivers in this experiment, the way that their body responds is not exactly the same way that the sender responds, because after all, the receiver in this experiment are sitting in a shielded room for 30 minutes and nothing happens.
		They're just sitting there.
		Of course, they're wired up.
		But you can tell when you look at the physiological reaction that it is as though they're just sitting there quietly and they suddenly get a small startle, as though they heard their name called.
		Something whispered.
		Something catches their attention.
		And when that happens, the body goes through a very predictable sequence of changes, and that's the kind of change that we see.
		So it's as though, psychically, they're picking up that attention that's being placed on them.
		And that's probably what's happening in the case of a dog that's responding.
		Suddenly, attention is there, and they pay attention to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Strongly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if anything, perhaps the dogs seemed to me to be more reactive than most humans.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It was just that dog might be the one in a million dog.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		In the studies we do in the lab with people, we work with volunteers who are not pre-calibrated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So if we had the opportunity of scanning through a million people or a million couples, we could probably find a couple that was as good as that dog was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you mentioned whispering and whispering in the ear earlier in the program that you get to hear things about research that's going on perhaps not so publicly without telling us who's doing that research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give us an idea of what areas of research are being pursued privately and quietly?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I would say that there is telepathy research being done successfully.
		Probably the, I mean, for me, telepathy is basically blase already.
		I mean, I did an analysis recently of all of the experiments on telepathy from 1974 up through last year.
		There's 3,145 trials of a particular type of experiment.
		And the overall odds against chance are 29 quintillion to 1.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Quintillion means 18 zeros.
		And so I wrote this up, and it'll appear in my next book that's coming out.
		And it's just one class of a number of different classes of experiments that show this stuff is real.
		So these kinds of information has penetrated out into people in academia and they're interested and some are beginning to replicate it and successfully so.
		But the other area which is I think much more radical and in a sense more interesting is precognition.
		People are looking at unconscious precognition in the body.
		And one way of thinking of it is you talk about precognition, everybody freaks out because it's very difficult to get your mind wrapped around it.
		But if you talk about it in terms of intuition, unconscious intuition or preconscious processing, there are lots of euphemisms that are used for this now.
		People are beginning to replicate experiments that I started back in 1995 because they're basically very standard psychophysiology experiments, and it's easy to hide what you're interested in.
		And I now know a number of groups that have been doing this and have been successful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When the needles went off the chart prior to the 9-11 event, was that precognitive?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, that looks like a large-scale premonition.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's precognitive in the sense that something was happening before an event unfolded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		But it's quite different than what's happening in an individual.
		Maybe it was an effect of lots of individuals.
		But actually, this reminds me that we found it, last time I was on, I talked about an effect we found that was a precognitive effect in some of our online games.
		And I found another one that has actually confirmed the first one.
unidentified		Oh.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Should I talk about that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the first one was we have at the gotsci.org site.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		This was a set of games that I wrote originally for the Boundary Institute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody's going to want to know, you better spell it out carefully, the GotSci.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Gotsai.
		It's a takeoff after GOTMilk.
		So it's G-O-T-P-S-I.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah!
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Gotsci.org.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		G-O-T-P-S-I.org.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		This is hosted by the Boundary Institute, which I co-founded with Richard Chauk back in 2000.
		And this was originally designed as a suite of simple games that are all valid sci testing games, one of which is a simple card test.
		You have to choose which one of the five cards that appears on the screen do you think that the computer will then select.
		So it's a precognition test.
		On that test, you can create a daily performance measure of the degree to which people are successful in selecting the card.
		So we have now this several years worth of data, including going before, during, and after 9-11.
		And what we found was that on a daily basis, there was a massive drop in performance about two weeks before 9-11, which persisted for two weeks.
		And then a day or two before 9-11, it suddenly shot back up to chance.
		So visually, there's like this giant notch going down just before 9-11.
		And my speculation was that since a downward curve with a performance curve means that people are missing the correct target too often, way too often.
		I mean, statistically, this is thousands to one against chance.
		For two weeks, almost as though they were psychically repressing their ability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're watching in both directions.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		Yeah.
		They could either hit high or they could hit low, basically.
		They were missing.
		And the missing effect is much, much stronger than any other direction in this data.
		I mean, there's nothing else like it in this database.
		And since it happens at a meaningful time, so close to 9-11, the speculation was that people were essentially intending to miss.
		They were unconsciously doing it.
		So an unconscious intention is repression.
		They repressed their psychic ability because they didn't want to walk around feeling what was about to unfold.
		So that was what I talked about that, I think, last time I was on.
		So then I looked at another game that we have there, which is a remote viewing game.
unidentified		music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at Coast to Coast, we're experts at crashing websites.
		Let's see how we can do with GOTPSI.org.
		That's where the games are.
		Now, these games test PSI ability.
		Various games up there that test PSI ability.
		And again, they're at gotpsi.org.
		G-O-T-P-S-I.org.
		Very easy.
		Now, Dean, I may have brushed on this some years ago with you, but do you individually track results?
		Do you have gongs and sirens go off if some sort of savant gets on the page and knocks them down one after the other?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, we do track.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't say we have gongs and sirens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, on dramatic, you know.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but yes, we do track individual performance.
		That's also one of the features of this website.
		By the way, there's another one that is associated with the Institute of Noetic Sciences, which is PsyArcade, P-S-I-A-R-C-A-D-E dot com.
		So PsiArcade is another set of games.
		We do Track them.
		We do use the data for research.
		And I was going to describe one finding in the research that was related to 9-11.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we have a remote viewing test at gotsci.org.
		It's a simple test where the user is asked to describe a picture that the computer will randomly select.
		And the way that they do this is they enter some words in a box, and then the words are matched against the actual picture when it shows up.
		So I was thinking, maybe if premonitions are intruding in people's thoughts, that before 9-11, maybe people would be describing things having to do with terrorism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Because they're being asked to be in a reverie state and to imagine what's about to show up.
		The thing is, all of the pictures, in fact, in this set, there's 200 pictures, they're all very benign things.
		They're animals and scenery and beaches and that sort of thing.
		Nothing that would be considered terrorism.
		But nevertheless, I figured, let's go look.
		So I started looking on September 9th, 2001.
		On September 9th, which was a Sunday at 8.48 Eastern Time, a user wrote three, had three trials in a row, and these are the words that this person wrote.
		Airliner seen from left rear against stormy cloud backdrop, flashes of streaky clouds, two persons.
		That's what the person entered for at the first trial, which was a really bad description of the picture that ultimately came up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		But it was kind of interesting given 9-11.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So his very next trial said, firstly, a dragonfly with a question mark, then a log or branch suggestive of the Everglades, then a fast, dynamic scene of falling between two tall buildings past checkered patterns of windows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Followed by a third trial where he says, tall structure like an industrial chimney, flashes of rounded crenulated form, peacock-like headdress of American Indian woman, then surface-like volcanic ash plume or cauliflower.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		If you take these three trials, and this, by the way, was all that this person entered, these three trials, those trials together are very much like an oppressionistic snapshot or a way of describing what happened without saying exactly what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No question about it.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And then the next day, September 10th, 2001, at 5 p.m. Eastern Time, somebody writes, it is of something falling.
		It will be a chaotic scene.
		Another person says, intense, too hot to handle, lasting.
		Is the coast clear?
		They were checking the coast.
		And then the last one that matched was a series of 11 trials that a person entered one hour before the first airplane crashed into the World Trade Center.
		And these are the words.
		White House, gone in the blink of an eye, scald, man's folly, band red, surging, palace, not easily conned, U.S. Power Base, Flexing Muscles, and Surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So some of these are really startling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is startling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you feel when you read those?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, my hair stood up.
		I mean, how could somebody be having this?
		So there were 900 trials that were entered between September 9th and September 11th, 2001.
		So I decided to look through the entire database, which consisted of 256,000 trials, to see whether there may have been more terrorism kinds of words that were said approaching 9-11.
		And the way to do it then is to match not the exact words, because what you really want is a concept match.
		So I wrote a program that would match the words that people entered for each trial against these words.
		Airplane, falling, explode, fire, attack, terror, disaster, pentagon, and smoke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank God for computers.
unidentified		Yeah.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So it is doing a massive crunching on every word entered matching against these concepts.
		And then you can create on a daily basis the degree to which the impressions that people have matched a terrorism idea.
		And when you do that, what you find is the same thing that we found in the card test.
		There is a massive drop in terrorism ideation just before 9-11, and in fact, is the lowest on 9-11 itself.
		So it's the same kind of repression effect.
		So it was opposite to what I originally thought, that these were not words that were intruding into people's minds.
		They were perhaps feeling premonitions coming up, but they specifically avoided these kinds of words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		depressed them, a natural human reaction to something too overwhelmingly disastrous to even Yeah, even if you didn't consciously know to the World Trade Center buildings were going down, if you didn't know that consciously, it didn't matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had this impending feeling of something really big and not so good, and so your brain automatically locked it out so you could take care of business.
unidentified		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It filtered out the relevant information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's fascinating.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So if you look at these two tests now, the CAR test and this remote viewing test, the combined odds against chance of seeing such a large drop so close to 9-11 are odds of 1.8 million to 1.
		So it really does suggest that people's behavior collectively really did change before that event.
		And there are other dips and valleys throughout the database, but nothing as deep as these two points.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a question for you.
		I was going to ask you if you had run into any parent savants in this area, and the answer is you obviously have.
		Now, have you ever considered attempting to contact these individuals and perhaps work with them?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I'm planning on doing that for the remote viewing test.
		So far, I've just done it for the card test.
		We ran two formal talent tests for people who appeared to be good at the talent test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's it coming?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's it going?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The results were not so good.
		The first round was okay.
		It was interesting.
		And the second round, in which we picked out the people who appeared to do very well, seemed to have performance anxiety.
		And so their performance was basically right a chance.
		So using this as a means of selecting talent, at least for the card test, did not work very well.
		And so we're going to now try it again on the remote viewing test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When they were home in front of the monitor, relaxed, it just slowed.
		That's interesting.
		You know, I think I believe I described to you the one.
		I've only had one incident in my whole life of precognition, and I didn't solicit it.
		I didn't want it.
		I wasn't thinking about it.
		And it forced itself on me like with the strength of incoming ocean waves.
		I could no more resist it than the man in the moon.
		But it's never happened again.
		I can't bring it on at will.
		I'm not sure I'd want it to happen again.
		But that's how it happened.
		It was powerful.
		It was undeniable.
		But it was a single event in my life.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So you can imagine if you describe that event and people get all excited about it and they say, do it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, so that seems to be what happens here, that we find people who occasionally are just incredibly good, but they don't really know how they did it.
		You know, they spontaneously did it somehow.
		And then when they're asked to try to do it again, they can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or they have performance anxiety, as you mentioned.
		So is that true across the board in PSI?
		I mean, across the world, we hear of these people with these incredible talents.
		And are there some of them that absolutely on demand can perform?
		I know there are yogis who can control their heartbeat and other aspects of their physiology, right?
unidentified		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, some people can do it on demand.
		Nobody's 100%.
		But some people are above chance often enough and can do it on demand often enough that they have real talent.
		And also, the card tests are probably the worst kind of test to do this for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Because they're intensely boring.
		They're enormous fun for about five minutes and then you'd rather stick something in your ear.
		It just becomes boring.
		It's mentally exhausting to do this over and over again.
		So it takes a very rare person who has the discipline to be able to train themselves to be able to do this.
		I've heard tales of people who have trained themselves to do this very, very well.
		But I haven't seen it yet.
		I'm planning on visiting someone who claims to have done this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Who claimed to train themselves to be able to tell what playing cards were, hidden playing cards.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So I'm going to test it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad that you're able to do that.
		My feeling would be that if there were quite a number of individuals out there with a tremendous amount of talent, that they might, after reflection, not really want it known.
		I mean, it could bring many problems.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a difference between demonstrating an ability for purposes of science, where the person is not identified, and something quite different where someone wants to now go on the tonight show and make a big splash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's the appeal you would make to them.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That this is science, and you would indeed keep their confidentiality very carefully.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I would insist on it.
		Yeah, it would be a condition of the test.
		Because, I mean, I'm not in the business, nor do I have any interest in promoting somebody's performance career.
		So that would be part of the test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I've got a whole lot of people who would like to ask you questions.
		So let's dip in and see what we get.
		First time caller align.
		You're on the air with Dean Raden.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi.
unidentified		Hi, I am calling from Seattle.
unidentified		My name is Vivian.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Vivian.
unidentified		And I've been listening to you for years.
		Me and my mom and dad actually drove down to see you in Portland, but there were so many people who couldn't get in line.
		Okay.
		And I wanted to call, and all this talk is making me think about my dreams.
		I had the same exact dream as my boyfriend at the same exact time.
		We woke up at the same exact time.
		Looking at each other directly in the eye, knowing that we just dreamt the same exact thing, hearing my voice in each other's head when we woke up.
		And I don't sing, but I've always wanted to.
		And I just, that made me think of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Global consciousness.
		Well, I don't know if it's the same thing.
		I don't know if it's global consciousness, but it is, I guess it might be part of that love study you talked about.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would call that entangled minds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Entangled minds.
unidentified		Right.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It's of all spontaneous psychic events, half of them occur in the dream state.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So this is a good example of telepathic connection in the dream state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not that uncommon?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, not very uncommon at all.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if half of all reported spontaneous effects occur in the dream state, and there are tens of thousands of such cases, this is probably more common than people know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		Fascinating.
		Absolute fact.
		Entangled dream states, and why not?
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dean Rayton I. Good morning, Laura.
unidentified		This is Stephen in Columbus, Georgia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		It's amazing, Dean, that you guys can't check animals for this kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hard enough to check humans.
unidentified		I understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even humans don't have the words.
unidentified		I know, but I had a thing happen to me 18th of May.
		My dog has been, of course, sick.
		And she went outside to lay in the veranda, lay in the backyard for a while.
		And when I went outside to look for her, I couldn't find her and found her laying next to her brother's grave.
		So I got her up, and of course she was close to 12 years old.
		I brought her back inside.
		I was about to stir up some chicken breasts for her.
		And she looked at me and she died.
		Just right there.
		She laid her head down and died.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right there.
unidentified		She knew that she was about to die.
		I'm firmly convinced of that.
		There's no other explanation for it but that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I believe it.
		I absolutely believe it.
		And Dean, that's also something you would think that the human mind or dog mind, any mind, would repress.
		Our mortality is probably our biggest fear of all.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		But you know, there is interesting research now coming out of people who work in hospices where someone who's near death may be in a coma for a long time, and then just before they die, they become lucid, almost as though they really do know that death is approaching.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perfect clarity, yes.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so that is more common than we think also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, that's very common.
		I have a number of friends in doctors and so forth, and they have told me exactly that.
		That there is this moment in so many of nearly absolute clarity near death, and apparently an awareness of it.
		And I guess some choose not to blank that out.
		And maybe that was a case of that.
		I don't know.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like it, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Raden.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art and Dean.
		This is Jonathan in New Orleans.
		And my question, Dean, is did you examine a subset of the eggs in the vicinity of the tsunami for interesting activity?
		And also, I was wondering if your website explains how the random numbers are generated.
		And if not, can you explain that?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		We don't have too many random generators in the area of Asia where the tsunami hit.
		So the answer is no.
		We haven't partitioned out those generators yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		There is a technical description of the random generators on the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there sort of a down and dirty way to describe it?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, essentially, they're electronic coin flippers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Electronic coin flippers.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The source of randomness in each case is traceable down to a quantum event.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		So the coin is being flipped, and depending on whether it lands heads or tails, is dependent on an electron tunneling through a diode, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		so it's a truly random event and you've documented did 186 formal events and 199 total events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that currently the chance of it being all an accident.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		50,000 to 1.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		50,000 to 1.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that that number has been much higher.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it has fluctuated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And just the fact that that number fluctuates that much also is unto itself a study, I suppose, isn't it?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dean, those are a couple interesting words, absolute proof.
		Where do the numbers have to go with the work you're doing for that gong to ring, and even the most cynical of scientists out there to say, throw up their hands and say, the numbers are too big?
		It's true.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, the numbers alone won't do it.
		I mean, the total odds against chance for some of these classes of experiments, as I said, for telepathy, 29 quintillion to one.
		And it goes way beyond that, too.
		There are other criticisms that you can address and show that the data withstands the criticisms.
		But that's not enough.
		When we're dealing with a controversial topic, you need a theory which makes sense to people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An explanation.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Some sort of explanation.
		And if you get really controversial, and of course this is, oftentimes people will have to do experiments themselves to convince themselves that these effects really are true.
		Fortunately, these phenomena are very common.
		If you ask any average audience whether they're scientists in it or not, you always get between 50 and 70 percent of people admitting to at least one form of psychic phenomena.
		That means that these kinds of things go on all the time.
		And the reason why scientists are interested in this is not necessarily because they look at the scientific articles, but because they have an experience.
		And they become curious like everyone else in trying to figure out how does that work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's how I got involved in this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had your own experience.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, actually.
		I came from a purely scientific perspective.
		I was reading the articles and saying, this is nonsense.
		This doesn't match anything that I've ever been taught.
		But if it's true, it would be really amazing.
		So I started doing experiments.
		And so people ask me, what are my amazing psychic experiences?
		And the answer is the experiments that I did.
		Not the personal things that happened to me, but the experiments that I did because they were controlled.
		And if you get an interesting result under controlled conditions, at least for me, that is much more powerful than something which happens spontaneously.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but you'd be surprised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just wait till it happens.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I'm not saying I haven't had amazing things happen.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying that from a rational perspective, you know, it's something that's very solid when you control the circumstances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		If it's not controlled, it may have a powerful emotional effect on me.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		But unfortunately, I'm also trained as a psychologist, and I understand there are lots of ways that we fool each other and fool ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But all of this is being nailed down scientifically using scientific methods all the way.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First Tom Caller line, you're on the air with Dean Rayden.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, this is John from Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I have a question.
		I just want to make sure I have this straight first.
		Sure.
		The eggs, this is an experiment to find a relationship between the realm of consciousness and events that take place.
		Is that correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd say it's fair, isn't it, Dean?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Between consciousness and matter.
unidentified		Oh, matter.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's a mind-matter interaction experiment on a large scale.
unidentified		Now, what is the exact relationship between the number generators and the matter, or excuse me, the consciousness, the realm of consciousness?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Well, the hypothesis is that if mind and matter are related in some way, that when one side of that equation, namely the mind side, becomes very coherent, or because of all of the attention paid on a world event, that the other side of the equation, namely the matter, would also become coherent.
		What does coherence mean in matter?
		It means order, some form of unexpected order.
		And so we use random number generators because the only unexpected thing that can happen to a random system is to become ordered.
		And we know how to detect that order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so if it begins to become ordered, the alarms go off, as it were.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		So are we saying that these generators are in and of themselves conscious?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Maybe not that they're conscious.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		They are reflecting.
unidentified		Reflecting it.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		They are reflecting a change in the mind side of the equation.
unidentified		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a help?
unidentified		Yeah, and I just wanted to make a comment, actually.
unidentified		we can measure consciousness, if it is a very radiant energy source, perhaps we could use that to map the universe as far as, you know, finding beacons of life and consciousness on other planets, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a leap, but I mean...
unidentified		No, I think it's I was going to say, why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Absolutely.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Dean Raden.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How are you guys this evening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just fine, sir.
unidentified		I've got something I want to run by you.
unidentified		This is Jamie from Greenville, Texas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Let's say that our brain and our conscience is like a Las Vegas odds maker.
		And it absorbs every news story, every newspaper article, every opinion, just everything that we come into contact with from the time that we're kids.
		And it constantly just generates odds of, you know, such as like a terrorist attack, tensions building, you know, stuff that we overlook every day, but our brain is clicking out the odds from what we observe.
		And as it draws near and the odds of something happening becoming greater, that our brain sends us signals saying, hey, you know, wake up.
		This is about to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's exactly what you're looking at, isn't it, Dean?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it's probably true for ordinary events and ordinary perception as well.
		the brain is always calculating probabilities of things.
		And we become aware of it when the probabilities get real high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're nowhere close to being able to prove to the scientific community that it's just absolutely true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it would seem to me that a reasonable person reading the results that you have so far almost could not avoid getting involved.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I would say that for a neutral person, an open-minded person who goes through the technical papers, they will become interested.
		They may not be convinced because, I mean, it's difficult to be convinced about such things, but they would become interested.
		And in many ways, that's really all you can ask from a scientific perspective.
		You hope that the interest is high enough so that they want to go ahead and start doing experiments on their own.
		And that is beginning to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask, you are beginning to see that now.
		Yes.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Raden.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		I just wanted to bring up a, let me be devil's advocate here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		What if there's a sinister side to this, that it may be like a black ops project with massive mind control, and you're calling in on these, you're dowing up into a computer net and giving them the results they want to know?
unidentified		Well, through supplemental messages or high-like frequencies or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could there be a negative side to this?
		The clear answer to that has to be I think yes.
		This is just a field or a force or a natural fact.
		And so if it can be manipulated, then it can be manipulated probably as any other force, good or bad.
		Dean?
unidentified		Yeah.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I think part of the idea of the sinister side of all of this stuff comes about because of our natural fear of the unknown.
		I don't really think I mean, I know that in principle people could use these abilities either in a positive or negative way, but as we said before, positive and negative are relative.
		So it's not clear to me that it's so easy to always know.
		And the fear element of it is always there.
		I mean, it's true that within the government there are folks who would have the face the giggle factor, but there's also a fear factor.
		And so that's just part of the unknown.
		It's not just this area, it's any area where there are things that are unknown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How critically important to the success of these kind of experiments is intent?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How big a part is intent?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Factors like intention, novelty, motivation are all extremely important.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		The most important factors are motivation and intent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Warring, the people who wish us dead have extreme motivation, extremely strong intent, just enormously so to the very core of their being.
		And I hope we're as passionate about our freedom as they are about removing it.
		So do I. West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dean Radenheim.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		I want to thank Dean for Got Psy.
		I've been visiting the site over the last year.
		Recently, I haven't had much of a chance to do it, but I've been using it to boost my psychic abilities and remote view Sasquatch up here in the Pacific Northwest.
		And my kids have seen it a few times.
		And having increased my psychic ability, I've won little bits here and there on Lotto and things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, but all right, well, let's turn that into this.
		Dean, is it possible to use, for example, those games and increase your psychic ability?
		Can you sit there hour after hour and day after day, if you so chose, and use those tests to increase your ability?
		That's a pretty good question, actually.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I believe you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's not anything magical about the test, of course.
		It's more that any time you use discipline in training yourself to do something with your mind, you're going to get better at it.
		So I can accept that people can use these games, since they're very simple and compelling, to train themselves to become more and more intuitively attuned.
		So yes, it could happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really interesting.
		And she noted that she had done so, though not for a while now.
		But just putting yourself in that receptive mode, after a while, I suppose, it's like any other training.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your mind learns how to do it.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		It takes discipline and practice.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Dean Raden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just great.
unidentified		The question I have, I've had premonitions, precognitions, off and on for years, and it seems like the strongest ones I have concern death.
		I don't know why that is.
		I was wondering if Dean maybe had any insight into that as far as his research with death being such a strong factor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sure.
		I mean, death, after all, our immortality is, again, perhaps probably our biggest fear.
		So, Dean?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Issues of life and death are the number one topic or number one subject for any kind of psychic experience, whether it's a premonition or telepathy or anything else.
		So it's not too surprising because the importance and the motivational factors are very, very extreme.
		So that's probably why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dean, have you ever...
		You know about that?
		And something called SpearCom?
		Yes.
		I've run into a lot of things in my career doing what I do and looking into these kinds of things here.
		And it's a little painful to listen to all the SpearCom tapes, but I've done it.
		And I'm telling you, I had hair standing up on the back of my neck all the way through that.
		It's some of the most remarkable, amazing work.
		And I do think it's that.
		I don't think it was any kind of a hoax or anything.
		It was just astounding what Meeks did.
		And I wonder how you feel about that.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		That's a tricky one.
		Oftentimes in the EVP world, electronic voice phenomena world, the assumption is that there's something about the machinery itself which is doing it.
		But I think even the people will admit after a while that the operator, the human element, is equally important, maybe more important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't argue with that.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		In which case, it raises the possibility that the sounds that are recorded may not be from spirits, but may be from the human operator.
		In fact, this is an issue that comes up in mediumship research all the time.
		Where does the source of information or the source of the influence come from?
		My guess is that it either all the time or almost all the time comes from the human operator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Entirely possible, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course it's possible.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but of course people who wish to look for evidence for survival put that lower on their list of possibilities because they would rather believe that it's coming from some kind of spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you disinclined to believe that there is a form of consciousness or something that survives?
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		I would say probably like a lot of people, I would like that to be true, but I haven't been convinced by the evidence yet.
		And I've paid pretty close attention to a broad range of evidence.
		And the reason why I'm skeptical is because we know a lot about psi in the living.
		And we don't yet know the limits of psi in the living.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And by comparison, we don't know anything about psi in the dead.
		I mean, not directly.
		So it's simply when you use Occam's razor on the evidence to try to decide what are you going to believe, my guess is, my sense of the evidence is that we're dealing with things having to do with living people and not departed people.
		I wish that's not true.
		And I'm ready to believe it, but that there's some form of consciousness that survives, but I haven't been convinced yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's not necessarily a natural extension of the work you're doing, which seems mystical and incredible enough to take that other jump to the other side and imagine that somehow survives in all that is so holistic.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		No, I can easily imagine that what we call consciousness, in terms of human awareness, really is tied in some very significant way to the brain.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		And the psychic ability then does not necessarily mean that your mind and your brain are not the same thing, are not connected in some way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you're doing is thoroughly exciting enough.
		And again, your book, The Conscious Universe, is available.
		And if people want to know more, and I can't imagine how they wouldn't, they should go out and grab your book right away.
		My friend, thank you.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has been an absolute pleasure having you on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Dean.
dean radin ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're out of time, folks.
		That's all there is.
		And what we have talked about tonight, I think saying it again, is one of the most important things that we have ever discussed on this show.

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