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April 3, 2005 - Art Bell

02:54:05

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Charles Ostman - Nanotechnology

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	♪ From the high desert and the great American Southwest,
	I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones.
	They really are screwed up today, aren't they, after having to change an hour?
	Boy, did that mess up the day, or what?
	It did for me, anyway.
	I wonder if anybody else out there noticed that their atomic cloths, some brands of them, Went whizzing forth at 2 a.m.
	and went to 3 a.m.
	But then when you wake up the next day, they have slipped back an hour.
	Now, what accounts for that, Boulder?
	That's where it comes from, Boulder.
	Anyway, a couple of notes before we begin.
	One, the webcam photograph of the moment is of Comet.
	Comet is my wild cat.
	He was as feral as an animal can be.
	I mean, completely feral.
	He lived in the bathroom for six months.
	Then he lived in a chest of drawers for, let's see, he lived in a chest of drawers for about another three months at least.
	And now, I mean, he was completely emaciated.
	There was nothing to this cat, just a head and what was left of the body.
	It had been, you know, he'd been eating himself away.
	And now look at him.
	That's the wild one, folks.
	He now comes into bed with us.
	This is, of course, years later.
	And anyways, I'd guess 16, 17, 18 pounds, somewhere in there.
	Fat and sassy.
	That's common, for those of you that remember.
	Now, a little lesson.
	Last night I told you about a new radio toy that I had.
	I put a picture of it up on the website.
	It was delivered by UPS, and this is how stories get out of control.
	Last night I told you, UPS, no doubt, I mean, this is an $11,500 radio, right?
	That came early, and so I didn't have the gate open.
	I had no idea it was supposed to be delivered on Monday, but they brought it Friday, to my chagrin, and the UPS person, whoever that would be, kindly grabbed the box and slid it down the gate.
	Now, by the time the story had made it around the handbands today, They had lobbed it over the gate, thrown it over the gate, where it tumbled several times, coming to rest.
	You know, like, one day catapult or something.
	I think this is what happens to stories.
	You tell a story and by the next day, after it's been told to I don't know how many other people, it's grown and it's become bigger and bigger and bigger and that happened.
	One day catapult.
	At any rate, there is one sad note about my radio.
	I spent, well there's got to be a thousand knobs on that thing, I spent, embarrassingly, about, I don't know how long, it's got a picture of a globe on the front, you know, and Tokyo is spotlighted because that's where the radio came from.
	So I had to change that, quite an affair, believe me, to Pahrump.
	And proudly I had Pahrump there, along with local Pahrump Time.
	And that's what appeared on the front of the radio on the globe, and it was a proud moment.
	And then I turned the radio off, and turned it back on, and it went back to Tokyo.
	Now, Tokyo is highlighted on the map, and that's Tokyo time.
	So I probably forgot to press some kind of save something, but I mean, it was like an hour, an hour of getting out the manual and bringing it all the way from Tokyo to Peru.
	Anyway, having fun.
	All right, so let's look at the world news.
	Finally at rest after years of crippling disease.
	Pope John Paul II's body lay in state Sunday, his hands clutching a rosary, his pastoral staff under his arm.
	Millions prayed and wept at services across the globe as the Vatican prepared for the ritual-filled funeral and conclave that is going to choose a successor.
	And I'm telling those of you who have never been through this, you're in for a real treat.
	There is this strange ritual at the Vatican, and a whole generation of young people has never seen this happen.
	So pay attention.
	You're going to see something kind of interesting.
	There's a lot of ritual And the Catholic Church is very interesting, and when they finally pick a new Pope, there will be white smoke coming out of the Vatican as the ballots are burned.
	It's an amazing, amazing process, and many of you will never have seen it, so watch the nightly news as this process continues.
	For all his inspiring qualities, personal charm, deep spirituality, Acceptance of other faiths.
	Pope Paul, John Paul's tight grip on church leadership and unwillingness to change unpopular teachings, of course, clashed with the more democratic approach that many of the 65 million US Catholics, of course, favor.
	So this is the other thing you're going to want to watch.
	There is going to be, my wife is a Catholic, as you know, and she tells me there's going to be a big fight.
	It may It'll probably, knowing the Vatican, be well behind the scenes.
	But a big fight between the traditionalists, the conservatives, and the American Catholics, and we would be certainly considered to be more progressive, liberal.
	And so there's going to be a giant fight between these two factions.
	And that may well determine... In other words, when you see the kind of Pope we get, you'll know who won.
	Let's put it that way.
	Lawmakers broke days of rancorous stalemate Sunday and reached out to Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority for their Parliament Speaker.
	Cutting through ethnic and sectarian barriers, that have held up selection of a new government for more than two months now, so hopefully they're somewhat satisfied.
	The arguments surrounding Terry Schiavo are going to live on in state house debate and new laws if an emerging coalition of disability rights activists and right-to-lifers succeed in turning the national agony over a case into a re-examination of when and how our lives come to an end.
	So far, only a few legislators in a handful of states have sought significant changes to any of their laws which define the fundamental elements at stake, how a person, for example, can set limits on their medical care, who gets to decide what their wishes are, what evidence is needed to prove any claim.
	Those looking for the market to make a substantial move higher We'll likely have a very frustrating week ahead.
	Chronic fears of inflation, spurred by record oil prices and reports of higher prices for consumer goods and services, have sent the major indexes to their lowest points of 2005.
	Are you surprised at that?
	As goes energy, so goes America.
	And as this energy goes up, and baby, it's going up fast, really fast.
	In fact, Here, since 2000, this is from, uh, what's it from?
	I don't know what it's from.
	I guess it's from Yahoo.
	Since 2000, the average price of a gallon of self-serve regular gas has gone up 39% from $1.51 to $2.10.
	With record-breaking oil costs and seasonal summer price hikes, experts see no relief, no relief, no light at the end of the tunnel at all.
	The price of the pump is going to jump, and it's going to more than offset any increase in Saudi production.
	And some experts predict, take a deep breath, gas is going to hit $3 a gallon in some parts of the country within a few months, no doubt.
	Some people are going to write to me and say it already has where I am.
	It has in some places.
	It's amazing.
	And then I want...
	I want your help on the following story.
	I found nothing in a quick search to verify what this person writes.
	Pat in Tucson, but should it be true, it's going to definitely bear some examination.
	I'm not saying it is.
	Pat says, I'm so angry I could spit nails.
	First, this CAV spacecraft that's going to militarize space, and now Bush slips it in While people are thinking about Terry Schiavo and the Pope, that he's going to cancel the space shuttle program.
	Now, I know there are problems with the program and that the usefulness of the International Space Station can be debated, but this leaves a terrible void.
	Not only will thousands of jobs be lost, but dreams will also be lost.
	When we look to the stars now, all we're going to see is an incredible capability to provide a warfighter with a global reach capability against high payoff targets.
	Oh, goody!
	Whatever happened to, we come in peace for all of mankind?
	Yeah.
	Well, so I can't verify all of that.
	I don't know that there was some recent announcement about the cancellation of the shuttle program and I don't know about CAV spacecraft and
	so you know obviously this is a troublesome email if there's
	some basis to it more as a matter of fact we're going to do open line
	so if you have something to say
	reach for your telephone now top of the hour Charles Osman he is a an expert on nanotechnology
	and I'll tell you something
	There are a lot of topics that we talk about on Coast to Coast AM that are sort of, you know, science fiction that may well become science reality.
	The thing about nanotechnology, and the reason we're revisiting this so often, is because this is not way out there this is now I was blown away a couple of weeks ago we did this the show on energy and we had somebody on nanotechnology who had said hey art you can already go out and buy a paint that nanotechnology has produced a paint
	And you paint your house with it, and it supplies energy for your house.
	And you can get that now!
	Not a hundred years from now.
	Now!
	So nanotechnology went from something we did, in fact, talk about on this program as sort of science fiction, tomorrow's news.
	Now... Now it's today's news.
	So it's a very, very exciting technology that is going to change our lives in our lifetime.
	Even in my lifetime!
	As I crawl towards 60 years of age, I can look forward, even in my limited time left on Earth, whatever that may be, to a gigantic, incredible change in the clothing we wear that will adapt itself to us, to the paint that goes on the house that creates energy.
	Nanotechnology is exploding.
	And, uh, Mr. Osman will tell you all about it.
	We'll see if we can keep him down to 110 miles an hour or so.
	Uh, let's rock.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, hi.
	Yes.
	Hi, I'm a student, uh, calling from Portland, Oregon.
	You are, huh?
	A student of what?
	Anthropology.
	Anthropology, yes.
	And I'm writing a paper on Coast to Coast for a class.
	You're writing a paper on this show?
	Oh, yeah.
	Um, and what's your, what's your angle gonna be?
	Well, I'm trying to see how, what's, thinking about Coast to Coast is kind of this, uh, virtual radio community, and I had a few questions, uh, for you, about the show.
	Yes.
	Turn your radio off, by the way.
	Oh, it's off.
	Okay.
	What kind of questions?
	Well, for example, what do you think is unique about a Coast to Coast listener?
	Like, what makes someone inclined?
	What's unique about A Coast Listener?
	What's unique is their every single age group from the youngest to the very oldest there's the demographics to this program are would knock you off your feet and maybe what you got to do is write to the network and get the information on that because it would make an interesting Part of your article.
	In other words, the very youngest and the very oldest and everybody in between listens.
	So that's a big deal.
	So that's one answer.
	Next.
	Well, what do you think makes someone want to listen to Coast to Coast?
	What appeals to Coast to Coast?
	What's appealing about it to listeners?
	It's different.
	Look, you go up and down the dial day and night, and we've got politics, politics, politics, politics, politics, politics.
	And then all of a sudden you get to one spot, and it's not.
	So, bingo.
	Anything else?
	Um, what would you say to someone who thinks the material discussed on Coast to Coast is superstition, or silly, or unscientific, or just doesn't take it seriously?
	I would say some of it fits squarely into that category.
	But I would also say that many things discussed on this program come true months and years ahead of time.
	Great.
	Alright.
	One last question.
	One last.
	Would you describe Coast to Coast as a community of sorts?
	Yes, I think I would describe it as a kind of a community, sure.
	And it's a community that, believe me, doesn't always agree on anything.
	Yes, it's a community.
	The people who listen to this program comprise a community.
	But people of such varying belief systems and I think that's the biggest thing about Coast is the demographic spread, the variety is just absolutely astounding.
	I think that we're all Peter Pan in that category.
	We don't ever grow up.
	When does the wonder end?
	Well, wonder's not over for me and I'm almost 60.
	I mean, I still find wonder in all the things that we talk about on this program.
	That's one common thing, but then the community occasionally gets divisive and fights a little bit.
	Those things happen.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art, this is T.J.
	in Kansas City.
	How are you doing, sir?
	I'm good, buddy.
	How are you?
	I had just put a post on the Fantastic Four asking about the mission to Mars and the moon that Bush was talking about.
	Whatever happened to that?
	I'm going to tell you what I believe, and I hope I'm wrong.
	I think they were great, wondrous things for President Bush to have said, but I don't think he thought for one second that any of it was going to get funded.
	And as for the coast-to-coast community being a community, it's definitely a community.
	I've been a listener for several years, sir.
	Sure, sure it is.
	Thank you, sir.
	Right, thank you.
	That's just my take, and it's a sad take, but it's a good, it's a nice thing for a president to say.
	We're going to the moon!
	We're going to Mars!
	Well, and I hope it's true.
	But, you know, a lot of presidents can say things that are going to sound good to the public that the president darn well knows aren't going to get funded.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Okay, that's me, I guess.
	I, it sounds like you, but only you can absolutely certify that.
	You gave him some good answers, but I was wondering, I didn't hear how long he'd been listening.
	Um, quite a while.
	Oh, he had, I guess.
	I was asking you the questions?
	Yes.
	Yeah, okay.
	I'm going to talk about Terry Scheibel.
	Oh?
	I think that the parents should have got the custody and the guardianship of that girl.
	Well, legally, they didn't have that right.
	Yeah.
	And I think that he had done something to her to put her in that position.
	Well, here's what I think.
	Why didn't he divorce her and allow the parents to have legal custody?
	Because he could have.
	And that's what I wondered about all along.
	Could there have been another issue about why he didn't do that?
	Well, maybe, huh?
	I mean, he had a wife and a couple of children beyond Terry, so... I don't know.
	You know, that's one of those things that we're not going to be done with for a very long time.
	For those who think the Schiavo thing is over, wrong.
	It's going to shape American law no matter what they say about how this was just one specific law for one specific case.
	Believe me, this has affected the entire country.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Sorry, now you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Is Andy Cullen from the Great White North?
	Yes, sir.
	I'd like to comment about your show.
	I was listening to the rerun just before you came on live.
	It was about the energy crisis and the three-day supply of food in the U.S.
	and that?
	Yes.
	Okay, just before I get to that, I want to make a comment on what you just said.
	Well, no, go ahead and get to what you wanted to get to.
	Three-day supply of food, in most places, trucks bring us everything, so yeah.
	Okay, it's about the money that people earn and put away.
	Yes.
	In order to earn a dollar or create wealth, it ultimately must start by turning over the soil, digging for oil, digging out the gold, in order to create wealth.
	Now, The most money I ever made in a year was about $25,000 Canadian, which is about $20,000 American.
	And when I made that much money, I was able to eat good.
	I was able to go out on the weekend.
	I had a decent car to drive.
	You know, life wasn't too bad.
	I couldn't go kangaroo hunting in Australia today and then skiing in the Swiss Alps tomorrow.
	I've got the idea, sir.
	We've got about 40 seconds.
	Okay, people are turning over the earth to create wealth in which they put away for some period 50 years down the road, and then have to turn over more earth to feed themselves now.
	And you people talk of a three-day supply of food.
	What do you mean, you people?
	Well... What do you mean, you people?
	I think I take an objection to that.
	I'll take that back.
	How about our friendly neighbors, the Americans?
	Or something like that, instead of you people.
	Well, if you have a three-day supply of food... Yes?
	Here's the key word.
	Humans are omnivorous, so there is no three-day supply of food.
	That was three words.
	That was three words.
	So see, you can't even get your number of words straight.
	What do you know about our supply of food here in the States?
	Huh.
	Oh God, one day a catapult.
	All right, everybody hold tight.
	We're at the bottom of the hour and you're listening to Coast to Coast AM from the High Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Somewhere in the middle of the world, there's a guy stalking you.
	You realize that he's trying to play this turn-back-off game.
	It's 2 AM.
	It's 2 AM.
	Here's the song.
	And you know what I know.
	The sun's still warm.
	I'm gonna make you cry and take it all.
	Yeah, there's a storm on the loose, sirens in my head.
	Well, I've been silenced off circuits to death.
	My whole life spins into a frenzy And I'm stepping into the twilight zone
	This is the madhouse, beat is like deco My heat doesn't run
	🎵 Music 🎵 🎵 Doing alright 🎵
	🎵 A little driving on a Saturday night 🎵 Come walk with me.
	Wanna dance the dead way Jenny was neat
	you She always smiled for people she'd meet
	On troubled strides She had another way of looking at life
	Music flew, the music blew The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Oh, one more thing for your...
	Anthropology Study Report.
	This program is one that doesn't screen calls.
	We just rock with the people.
	So, put that in your report!
	Anyway, good morning everybody.
	we're in open lines which means anything you want to talk about between now and the top of the hour and then Charles
	Ostman on nano technology
	All right into the night we go First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Alan.
	I'm in San Antonio, Texas on WOAI.
	The mighty 1200.
	Yes, sir.
	A couple of quick comments on the WOAI.
	They got a preacher like one day of the week kind of cutting into your show and I just wanted to let them know down there.
	We don't appreciate that.
	So what does that mean?
	They're cutting into tonight's show?
	No, no, not tonight's show.
	I forget what day it is.
	There's a Thursday or something that it don't come on until like half an hour after the show starts.
	But it's not Saturday or Sunday?
	No, no, no.
	Hallelujah!
	Alright, sir.
	What else?
	Let me see.
	Oh, did you hear Phil Hendry's impression of you on April Fool's?
	That was like the most horrible impression of anybody.
	I mean, I'm sure everybody got it right off the bat.
	Which one was you?
	He's done like 30 or 40 of them now.
	You know, the funny thing is, you know, General Jameson, he's real.
	Right.
	Oh, and one more quick thing with George.
	Last week, towards the end of the week, everybody's making a big deal about this weird guy they called in named Oscar with this silly little voice, you know, and I don't understand why they're giving that guy attention, you know.
	He's obviously just got some problems.
	He's calling and trying to get attention.
	What was Oscar?
	He was calling and saying that he was a devil and he was possessed in a body and he was calling and Making this little weird voice that was very, uh, unconvincing.
	And, uh, all these people are like, hey, that guy was really freaky, you know, giving him attention.
	And I just thought, you know, it was, it was pathetic.
	But, uh, anyway.
	Maybe the devil is pathetic, sir.
	Think of it that way.
	Perhaps he is.
	Perhaps he's got no sophisticated sense of humor whatsoever.
	Perhaps actually the devil is a simpleton.
	Doing really evil stuff.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Well, good morning, Mr. Bell.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing quite well, thank you.
	I have something about NASA.
	I could not find anything along the lines of what you were mentioning, but on cnn.com, they had an article that the launch of the Discovery, which they're aiming for on May 19th, it may be delayed because NASA apparently has been Um, either delaying purposely, or just caught up, uh, in the chaos, I guess you could say, with paperwork, and so the launch, uh, that they were hoping for may be delayed, and if they do not get it within a certain window after that, they're going to have to wait, I think, maybe until July before they can get
	The program back up and running.
	Well, clearly our space program is not in a good place right now.
	I mean, we are at the end of the shuttle's useful life.
	They're getting pretty old.
	I don't see anything really immediately online to replace it.
	And as far as Mars goes, it might as well be in another universe right now.
	That's about right.
	It is.
	And also about the Oscar that was mentioned.
	I tried to call in the other night and do my own impression of him and claim that he was from my family and that we were all a bunch of interior decorators and that he just got to take his medicine.
	Yeah, well, a lot of medicine and a lot of needful people out there.
	Yes, that is true.
	But anyway, I'll get off here and I hope you have a good night and enjoy your radio.
	Well, thank you very much.
	I don't know why I went back to Tokyo.
	Three to four hours, changing it from Tokyo to Pahrump, and then changing the time from Tokyo time to Pahrump time.
	Hours of fiddling with knobs, and then he went back to Tokyo.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes.
	This is Dave from Springfield, Illinois on 1240 at WTAX.
	Yes, sir.
	My question has to do with a Terry Schiavo case.
	Um, if we had someone, or if we had capital punishment where the person from death row was tied down to a table for two weeks with no food and no water until they expired, what would we call that?
	Torture?
	Cruel and unusual punishment.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	The court's... Cruel and unusual punishment for someone who has murdered someone.
	Why is it any less cruel and unusual punishment for an innocent person?
	You're preaching to the choir here.
	But well said.
	Thank you very much.
	I absolutely agree with you.
	You wouldn't do it to an animal.
	You wouldn't starve an animal to death.
	And people, if they heard of an animal being intentionally starved to death, they'd go berserk.
	Right?
	What do we do?
	Civilized people in this country.
	What do we do?
	We take our dying pet, if we have to because they're in pain, down and they're euthanized in a moment with a shot.
	Very quick.
	They go to sleep.
	We cry.
	It's sad.
	But it's fast.
	That's what we do for animals.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	And thanks for sticking up with us on the Canadian caller.
	There's quite a few of those people that call in and they seem to pick on us a little bit.
	Well, I detected a little attitude there.
	Yeah, you did.
	You picked it up right away.
	And it seems to be quite often from that side, but that's fine.
	We're bigger people.
	Last night's show was just awesome.
	And they concentrated a lot on what the people were saying, but just the fact that nobody can deny that was not a creaky roof or a leaky faucet.
	No question about that.
	Those were voices.
	I was wondering if anyone, or if I wanted to ask them this question, maybe you could.
	Has anyone ever tucked a recorder to, let's say, Iwo Jima?
	Or does it have to be inside of a building?
	Do you know?
	No, it does not.
	Of course it doesn't.
	And World War II hotspots would be awesome to try, as well as any other battlefield hotspots.
	No question about it.
	But, I mean, listen.
	These are people who do this voluntarily.
	You know, mostly their own money up in Utah.
	Right.
	They're not out to make a buck on it, they're just doing it.
	So, you know, they'd have a hard time getting there, but I'm sure somebody out on one of the islands will do it.
	Yeah, and it just has such good quality.
	I was also thinking that maybe the psychics, because I think that there's some kind of connection there, that maybe they should keep a voice recorder in their pocket when they're doing their work.
	Well, the reason I keep having them back is because I can find no hole.
	I don't find that these people... I don't for one second think these people are faking these things at all.
	I don't believe that at all.
	Nor do I. So there's some other... maybe there's some other explanation, but it ain't an easy one, brother.
	Well, you didn't get the show for nothing.
	You have an intuition that's 100% usually.
	Well, 99.9.
	I appreciate it.
	Thank you very much.
	I think we all do.
	We have good intuition.
	A lot of us have been trained into not listening to our intuition.
	And you know when you've screwed up.
	You know.
	I mean, you sort of know in the back of your mind that you had a feeling that this was going to happen if you did the following, right?
	It happened.
	You said, ah, damn it, I should have... I should have listened to myself.
	You know, you have that little moment where you're at a juncture in life, a decision-making point in life, and if you listen carefully to yourself, nine times or better out of ten, you'll make the right decision if you listen carefully.
	And when you don't, then you're usually in the position where you're saying, you know, I should have listened to myself.
	I knew it!
	Right?
	International Line, once, I suspect, north of the border again, you are on the air.
	This is Bill here in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
	Yes.
	Art, I feel privileged to be able to talk to you.
	I've tried many times and here I am.
	Here you are.
	Yes.
	I'd like to comment about something you were talking about.
	The oil business here, I think last weekend?
	That's right.
	We're already paying in some places here, converted to U.S.
	dollars and U.S.
	gallons over $3.
	A gallon, or a buck a liter.
	I know, you've got a lot of tax there.
	Well, I wouldn't be surprised if it went to four or even five dollars.
	If it does, then your country's in the same trouble that our country's in here.
	It's going to change everything.
	Everything you get, just like in America, is transported to you, and the price of everything is going to go up.
	It could spiral us into inflation worldwide.
	Well, it's kind of ironic, because I don't know if you've ever heard of the Athabasca tar sands?
	Vaguely, yes.
	It's a patch of land, I would say roughly the size of Maine, about 200-300 miles north of Edmonton.
	Yes.
	It's like a big swamp, only it's full of tarry-like substance.
	It looks like 90-year oil in sand.
	And they dig this stuff up, and they heat it and extract the oil.
	Okay, well I think that's kind of like the shale oil thing, and it is a supply of energy, but I should tell you that it's kind of a secondary supply.
	It's the kind of oil you go after when the first half of the oil, that's what they're talking about when they're talking about peak oil, it's bell curve, and at the top, they say we're at the top of that curve worldwide now.
	And when you get there, You've taken half of all there is to take, and the thing about the second half that's left, which is a lot of oil, admittedly, still a lot of oil, it's not so cheap to get.
	It's not so easy to get.
	It's going to be a whole lot more expensive to get.
	And that's going to have ramifications worldwide for the world's economy.
	As goes the U.S., goes the world right now, and China.
	And the rest of the world.
	So we're entering an interesting time.
	One of the things that might save our butts, that might!
	And I don't want to offer false hope, but nanotechnology actually does have the promise to perhaps answer some otherwise unanswerable questions.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Brian in Houston, Art.
	I'm a very long-time listener and first-time caller.
	Glad to have you.
	Let me tell you about that article about the space shuttle.
	Yes.
	That appeared on Spacenet Daily.
	Really?
	And it's dated April 1st.
	Oh, okay.
	And if you go on Google and do a search for a voice-canceled space shuttle, the article will come out number one.
	Poor Pat.
	Pat got hustled.
	And I got hustled, too, because to me, I would have been angry, too.
	I put, you know, he sent me this email, and it read like something that would just upset all of us.
	I put a big question mark there, saying, you know, this might not be true, but God, I hope it's not.
	Well, believe you me, when we saw it down here in Houston, our hearts all skipped a beat, too.
	Well, you know what, though?
	The shuttle, it's believable, because the shuttle really is almost at the end of its life.
	Well, we didn't doubt it.
	We just, you know, were very, very upset when we first heard it might even be a rumor that, you know, it leaked out before that happened.
	Plus, you know, the other believable part of it, these always make the best lies.
	I mean, we are working on an atmospheric skipping type of vehicle, I think, right now.
	So, you never know.
	Let me make one comment about your premonition thing.
	Yes.
	It's exactly as you say, except the one time I decided to act on it, guess what?
	It's the time I was wrong.
	Really?
	So I've got like a hundred and eighty degree out of phase on that.
	Well in that case, you know how to act.
	Except tonight.
	Except tonight.
	I said I'm gonna try to be a first-time caller after ten years, and you know what?
	It worked tonight.
	So you broke the spell.
	Well then what do you have to depend on?
	Nothing.
	Hey, take care.
	You take care too.
	If you're wrong, 50% of the time, or right 50% of the time, then you're just all screwed up.
	Premonition.
	Intuition.
	It all means nothing to you.
	It's a toss-up.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, about, uh, Terry Shiloh.
	Yes.
	Somebody's killing, uh, her husband.
	Okay, sir, you're on a cell phone.
	You hold it.
	You're on a cell phone.
	Kind of hard to understand, so try to... Okay.
	Is this a little better?
	I, I guess.
	Okay.
	I'm sorry, but, uh, Could it possibly be that after seven years and he finally came to the realization that his wife was dying, that he decided he'd fulfill his wife's wish and spent 15 years trying to do the one thing, the last thing that he could do for his wife.
	What she wanted done.
	What did he get for it?
	Wait a minute.
	You mean it took him seven, did I just hear you say it took him seven years to come to the realization that that was her wish?
	Is that what I heard?
	Okay, if I understand this correctly... I mean, that's what you just said, right?
	And then for seven years he tried, he even went to medical, was going to become a nurse to help rehabilitate her.
	And when he figured out that she was no longer there, then he spent 15 years to fulfill her last wish.
	Alright, well that may be, it may be, this is why I'm saying, it's never going to be over.
	The Schiavo case is going to be argued long after you and I have left, you know, shuffled off this earth, I think.
	It's that big a deal.
	I haven't, I don't, let's see, in recent memory, when was the last time?
	9-11, maybe?
	I think we should check with Princeton and take a look at the whole Schiavo business, and I'm sure Princeton is doing that right now, to see what the, in what way the eggs reacted, because without a doubt, the Schiavo case Was as emotional.
	I saw friends fighting with friends.
	I heard friends fighting over this.
	And I mean big fights.
	Over the Shivo case and the way they felt about it.
	It was extremely divisive.
	And I'm sure that if the eggs are the real McCoy, they must have been bouncing up and down like crazy.
	Just like 9-11 almost.
	That much trauma.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air high.
	Yes, hi.
	I heard you talk about the Terri Schiavo case, and I just heard something on another program about these judicial systems.
	They say they're becoming a dictatorship.
	And they said that we're in trouble, and they said they're even looking at laws in other countries to bring to this country.
	And they said we're in serious trouble.
	And they said the people have got to stand up and do something about this.
	But now, I've been through this like Terri Schiavo.
	My grandson was on a feeding tube, And a ventilator.
	And they did the same thing.
	They just killed him.
	And we never had any closure or anything on it.
	And this is happening to a lot of people.
	And it's horrible, because I know God says only He can take a life.
	Nobody else can.
	And her husband, I know he went through a bad time, but what he did was wrong.
	And only he should have let God do this instead of him.
	All right.
	There's the other side, folks.
	So there you go.
	Two callers, two passionate, very, very, very passionate opinions.
	And that's exactly the example.
	I mean, if I were to go to my email, which I did, I had thousands of emails about this subject.
	And by the way, I love getting email and I do read it.
	So by all means, please send it.
	I'm artbell at AOL.com or artbell at mindspring.com.
	a r t be l l at a well dot com or mindspring dot com it's really about a fifty fifty split even though i know
	some of the national polls depending on the question asked
	uh... indicated otherwise uh... my My emails were about evenly split, I would say.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Hey Art, how are you doing?
	I'm okay.
	Great show.
	This is in regard to the article that you read last week out of Rolling Stone.
	There's a book that was written by, uh, it's called Hubert's Peak.
	M.K.
	Hubert predicted the oil shortage of the 70s and the 50s.
	He was an oil boy that was born, I think, in Oklahoma and worked with the petrochemical in Texas.
	He also said, and this book was several years old, that we're going to be peaking with oil production between 2004 and 2010.
	He said the U.S.
	Geological Survey and other people have And we're in it now.
	to their advance that i don't know but it's that's what was in the book
	and the man i think it is riot or something like that
	is a professor at princeton for the most vouchers that wrote this book
	but when i heard that it really got my attention last week when you
	uh... read that article that i'm going to that's why i went all the trouble to
	read it was called the long emergency published in rolling stone and
	and we're in it now Can't you feel it?
	Come on, think about it.
	When you go to the gas pump, it's shock.
	When we get a gas hike, a gas increase, which is very frequently, we take two or three steps forward, one back, two or three forward, one back, and so forth and so on.
	That's the pace at which it is moving right now.
	You're going to want to watch the cost of a barrel of oil, which is astronomical right now, and some predict could go to $100 a barrel.
	So the long emergency really already has begun.
	If there is any savior out there, it may come with a technology that we are going to discuss next.
	And I'm not saying that it will, but I'm saying that if anything that's in sight right now might do it, it might be this.
	Charles Hoffman on nanotechnology coming up next.
	some Art Bell in the nighttime.
	Oh, the night is my world, city lights, painted girls.
	In the day, nothing matters.
	It's the night, time doesn't matter.
	In the night, no control.
	Through the wall, something's breaking.
	Wearing white as you're walking down the street.
	Hop, hop, so who?
	You take my soul, you take my soul.
	A!
	Distant, distant Good.
	Good.
	Agree I already know.
	You point a gun at a boy.
	It will shoot.
	You will turn on and the boy will start to turn his head.
	You will turn on and the boy will start to turn his head.
	I'll take a ride.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll free 800-825-5662.
	Ha ha!
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing Option 5 and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with ART Bell.
	Want to take a ride? Ha ha, baby, we're on a ride.
	It has begun and your ticket is punched.
	We're all on it.
	We've reached peak oil.
	I think that's obvious.
	The second half, a lot left, is gonna be real hard and very expensive to get, and as we dig for it, the price is gonna go up, and up, and up, and up.
	And our economy, if we're not careful, It's going to go down and down and down and down.
	One of the saviors, one of the realistic possible saviors, is something called nanotechnology.
	My guest coming up is going to tell us all about it.
	His name is Charles Osman.
	Charles Osman is a senior fellow at the Institute for Global Futures and serves with the management team of Forth Venture.
	Charles is also chair of the Nano Electronics and Photonics Forum, ...of Nanosig, senior consultant with Silicon Valley Nano Ventures, and he serves on the scientific advisory board of legendary pharmaceuticals.
	Wow!
	He is an active participant with the Millennium Project for Global Future Studies and Research of the American Council for the United Nations University.
	He has authored numerous technical papers and published articles, lectures frequently around the country and abroad, has contributed content featured in a number of books.
	He has been a featured guest and speaker in a diverse variety of nationally broadcast TV and radio programs.
	Charles has 25 plus years experience in the fields of electronics, material science, computing, artificial intelligence, including eight years at Lawrence Berkeley Labs and the University of California Berkeley.
	...and Los Alamos National Laboratory.
	in a moment subject nanotechnology guest Charles Osman.
	This man really knows what he's talking about.
	Uh, really knows what he's talking about.
	Now, I have a brain that operates, you know, like in a 15 mile per hour school zone type deal, alright?
	Charles has a mouth driven by a brain that operates, you know, at 100 miles an hour.
	So, we're gonna have to slum down every now and then.
	That's my recollection of the Charles Osman of old.
	It's been, I don't know, a long time.
	I interviewed you, Charles, years ago now.
	It is years ago, right?
	I think it was in 96, if I remember correctly.
	96?
	Correct, yeah.
	Well, that's my memory that you can really get going.
	I've been accused of worse, but that's fine.
	I mean, just really rapid delivery, which is great, except you're going to have to slow yourself down for mere mortals out here.
	I understand.
	I very much appreciate being back on the program.
	I really appreciate the forum, because I think it's the only forum like it on the planet.
	That's what it is.
	It serves a wonderful purpose, and I want to give credit to George Murray, who I think has done a tremendous job in carrying on the program.
	Absolutely.
	There's no other program like this anywhere.
	Period.
	It's just what it is.
	Anyway, enough of that.
	Listen, Charles, since in the years... I was saying this earlier in the first hour, that When we first did the program, it was like a lot of other shows we do, things that are probably, very likely, going to happen, but very far in the future.
	You know, we are a forward-looking program, and it was kind of in the future when you were on last, but my God, since you've been on last, nanotechnology has exploded!
	It's like your book, The Quickening, only it's the quickening in this context, and in fact, I've been working on a book kind of like that, but with a different perspective.
	But you're 100% right, and in fact, the rate of acceleration is accelerating itself.
	Maybe you could call it nano-quickening.
	If you wish.
	But one way to measure this process, in other words, there's different, you know, many different people now have a vision of nanotechnology in their own particular realm of familiarity, but from my vantage point, I work with a lot of patent attorneys and also a lot of user venture capitalists, and so I have to wear a very specific kind of hat.
	I have to measure technologies not from a Gee, how interesting, but rather, will it make money, and is it legally definable as a patentable item?
	Apparently.
	So in that context, there's over a thousand companies now producing something to do with technology.
	There you go.
	That's what I said.
	It's happening now.
	But let's back up, Charles.
	There are a lot of people.
	Honestly, you're going to have to do the 101.
	That's fine.
	I'm happy to do it.
	So this is my version of how I see nanotechnology to be.
	The simplest possible sort of Occam's razor approach would be it's the precise manipulation of matter At the molecular scale of interaction.
	And what that means is, our attempt or our hope is to be able to get molecules, individual molecules, to sort of move about and assemble themselves in some kind of useful way.
	And in fact, nature's been doing this for billions of years.
	We're just trying to, in a sense, copy a little bit from what nature has been doing all along and see if we can do a... How does man move a molecule?
	Okay, that's a good question.
	Well, let me explain how nature does it, and that might be helpful.
	If one were to, say, open up a living cell, most cells at least anyway, what you'll find inside those cells are these little machine-like objects called organelles.
	And the organelles come in many different types and flavors, and I won't go into all the detail, but there's generally ribosomes and, you know, mitochondria and proteasomes and a bunch of other devices, if you will, and their purpose is to, in a sense, build molecules as the cell's physiology needs them.
	And they get the instructions from this, from what are called messenger proteins.
	And these proteins come, you know, in many different types as well.
	But the basic idea is it's kind of like a software routine that then instructs these little assembly units how to build molecules as they're needed.
	So in a very rough analogy kind of way, we're hoping to either instigate controlled assembly by using organic means, and I can explain a lot about that, and there are other material systems which are just beginning to be developed where molecules can be sort of to cooperate based on some kind of combination of chemistry,
	physics, a bit of material science.
	But the general idea is you can attract molecules or repel molecules, either a volatile charge,
	water, different compounds, or a series of different stimulus events, you might say,
	the end result being some kind of a structure that comes from the molecules having been told what to do.
	So through different sciences, you mentioned material sciences, chemistry maybe, perhaps the use of magnetic
	fields, who knows what, you instruct these molecules to assemble in
	a certain way.
	Yes.
	Me, I picture somebody with a very teeny little thing and a microscope pushing a molecule incredibly Well, as a matter of fact, Don Eagle, who's very famous now, he's at IBM Research Facility in Almaden, he's a very neat guy, somebody you might want to have on the air as well, but he actually sort of made world history by moving individual atoms around using an atomic force microscope.
	And in fact, it's gotten to the point now where you can actually dial up on the internet, I'm not sure what the web address is, but he's done this before in public administration.
	And mainly for school kids and that kind of thing, you can actually go on the website and move atoms around.
	That kind of a process is great science, but it's not really practical.
	You're not going to make large objects or lots of objects that way.
	It's just too slow.
	But as a research instrument, it's a wonderful way to demonstrate the process.
	What we're looking for now, in a commercial sense, is how to do this on a much larger basis.
	That is to, like, for instance, computer chips or integrated devices.
	Or like you were saying earlier, the paint that can be a solar... Alright, now I hear that this is already being sold.
	Yeah, it is.
	You can verify that?
	Absolutely.
	Right now, let's get this straight.
	This is a paint that you can paint your house with, and then you... Do you know anything about it?
	Yeah, of course.
	I can go into great detail.
	In fact, I chair, twice a year, the Nano Electronics Forum Conference.
	Our next event is going to be on July 14th.
	And Nanosolar, one of the companies doing this, will be one of our presenters.
	All right, then get specific with me.
	What can be done?
	Well, for instance, and I'll skip over the chemistry because it's a little complex, but the basic idea is this.
	In traditional solar cells, they're made with silicon.
	You have to grow silicon crystals, what's called micro-crystalline silicon, which is kind of expensive and it's a tricky thing to do.
	It's not ever going to really be used on a mass basis, although it is in some areas.
	However, using organic materials, That, again, can be instigated to, in a sense, self-organize.
	And, depending upon how the molecules are arranged in certain layers and so forth, you can now create either a paint, or, through what's called roll-to-roll manufacturing, it's kind of like printing, if you will, it's printing chemistry on a surface, you can create very inexpensive both solar and thermal optics.
	That could be roofing tiles, it could be paint on the surface, All right, this is what I want to know about it.
	Here's where I get stuck, Charles.
	Okay, sure.
	All right, so I go to the local Ace's Place and buy a gallon of nano paint.
	Sure, exactly.
	And I come home and I paint my home.
	Now, I want to draw electrical current from this.
	I was sitting there trying to figure out, well, so what do I do?
	Do I attach a positive lead somewhere to the house and then a ground lead and I get This electrical charge, or how in God's name, sorry, is it delivered?
	I can't grasp it.
	Well, actually, it's surprisingly simple.
	Imagine the top side being one pole and the bottom side being the other pole.
	I mean, it's a little overly simplified, but that's kind of the general idea.
	What do you mean, the top side one pole?
	Well, it's a layer of material, and in a sense, photons or instigating electrons to migrate from one boundary to the next.
	All I really have to do is tap into that fluorite.
	So are you saying you have to have two coats of different stuff?
	The paint stuff, I haven't seen physically, so I don't want to comment on that, but I certainly have seen the laminated organic materials that are actually several layers.
	Okay, so you really then can't answer my question, because I was trying to figure out, how do you actually collect the voltage and current from this painted house?
	Do you have some place on the house where you have a Some sort of electrodes sticking out, and then you go to ground, or what?
	I can speak for the roll-to-roll manufactured stuff, which is basically the same chemistry, so I'm going to assume it uses the same general concept.
	But in the roll-to-roll laminates, there are literally several layers of material.
	And so you essentially place electrodes on different layers, and that's how you're capturing the flow of electron current.
	So I'm imagining you probably do have multiple paints of coat.
	That may be how that works.
	And I would like to know, whether it's the laminate situation you're talking about, or paint, what kind of actual voltage and current could one expect?
	I mean, the efficiency is very high, I understand.
	Well, that depends on which chemistry you're looking at and what the durability is.
	And this is where it gets a little more complicated, so forgive me.
	In fact, if you go to companies like Miusole or Canarca is another one.
	There's a handful of companies, by the way, that are going commercial, as we speak.
	They all have somewhat different chemistries.
	In fact, there's actually a company here in the Bay Area called Nanosys.
	All right, give me an average.
	Okay, well, on average, it's probably going to be less than silicon.
	But the flip side is, it's drastically cheaper, so you can cover huge areas, and with almost no cost, compared to what it costs.
	Okay, fine.
	Let's say we had a huge area covered.
	I'm actually interested in how much voltage and how much current could I produce from a house, or even a giant anything, painted with this stuff, or laminated with this stuff.
	You could produce thousands.
	Eventually, if you had enough service areas, you could produce thousands of watts.
	There's no reason you couldn't.
	And let me tell you where the next step is going, just to kind of get into this a little further.
	In the realm of what are called quantum dots, and I'm sorry to have to toss this word at you, but quantum dots are sort of nanoscale particles, and the particle size actually determines the bandwidth of light, or the spectral signature of how they respond.
	Okay.
	Now, why is it interesting?
	Well, the reason that's interesting is because, excuse me, if you can coat the outer surface with a layer of quantum dots, and there's a special trick for doing that, Then all of a sudden you can dramatically increase the efficiency because you can fine-tune the exact characteristic of light that's reaching into the layers that's actually doing the conversion.
	And so there are several companies now, including one in Canada that I'm working with, or I'm familiar with.
	That's actually perfecting this process.
	You'll see patents in the next year or two, where you have the quantum dot enhanced version.
	I've heard of the quantum dots, and I've heard of the Canadian firm, I believe, that is doing this.
	Yes.
	Are people becoming successful in getting patents on this?
	Yes, they are.
	In fact, not to plug my event too much, but we're actually sponsored by a law firm, Townsend Townsend & Crew, and they're one of the major law firms that's filing IP as we speak.
	And for how long, then, are you protected with regard to the use of that specific technology?
	Well, now, this is patent law, and I don't want to claim to be an expert in patent law, although I've certainly done my share of reading patents.
	But, you know, you can file a provisional patent, which lasts for a year, I believe, as a kind of a placeholder.
	They actually file a regular patent.
	And I think the statute of limitations, oh gosh, I'm going to get this wrong probably.
	Some are 7 years and some are 15 years, and I forget which the difference is.
	You know, there are those saying that as desperate as the world's energy situation is, these patents ought not be allowed, that all of this should be given to the world free of charge.
	Well, let me offer kind of a sideways argument, if I might.
	You might.
	I have spent many years working in government institutions.
	Lawrence Lab and Los Alamos and that kind of thing.
	And I work with government institutions even to this very day in some context.
	And there's a good place for that.
	And having the public sector being the primary catalyst to get the initial research funded, I understand that's a good thing to do.
	However, it has a flip side to that coin.
	The flip side says, when you allow the government to get monopolized, monopolized a certain technical spectrum of interest, like the space programs, since you were mentioning NASA earlier, What happens is these things often get mired in politics and take much longer than they need to take, and much more expensive, and so on.
	When I saw Spaceship One get launched, which to me was really cool because I actually met Burritan many years ago, this signified something special to me.
	It wasn't just that a small private company with a little bit of outside help got a spacecraft into orbit.
	What was really interesting was that this was done via the private sector.
	It was like an end run around the much larger, sometimes rather Byzantine kind of enterprises that Yeah, I saw the whole streaming thing.
	It was damn astounding.
	That would be good for the words.
	And so I suggest to you, and I offer this to your audience as well, that maybe we're at a point in time where the government bureaucracies are simply too slow, and I use that kind of cautiously, to really match in synchronicity the requirement to get things off the ground.
	And so if the private sector, through venture capital and through small startup companies, sort of burst on the scene with their breakthrough versions
	of whatever energetic yes yes yes yes and and for that reason there
	need to be patents is your argument sure no no i i i think i can make money so
	they have incentive to do it indeed but i think that's where you're going to write
	a i'd i'm going to be a little psychic eric
	i do know that there is a long-standing practice of people buying up patent
	and put the patent on the shelf to prevent them from getting to the public
	No, does that?
	That happens?
	That happens indeed, and this is a very dicey area, so I don't want to step into a boiling pit of controversy at the very first five minutes of your program, although I'm sure it's going to happen anyway.
	Wouldn't bother me.
	But it is kind of a mixed bag, and we have to take a balanced approach.
	Let me give you a different perspective, if I might.
	You might.
	You remember when Craig Vettner launched the company Solera, and for those that are not familiar perhaps, there was a, when the Human Genome Project was ongoing, there was a huge battle between the NSF, headed by Francis Collins, and then the private version called Solera.
	And Francis Collins and Craig Vettner were kind of like blood enemies at one point, because Francis Collins said it was going to take billions of dollars and 12 years or whatever it was to get the human genome cracked, Greg Venter said, I'll do it in three years for half a billion.
	I mean, clearly this was kind of a direct challenge to the traditional sort of government way of doing things.
	So does he have a patent on the human genome?
	He doesn't have a patent on the genome exactly, but he certainly has a lot of patents on the process that led up to it.
	But more importantly, let me tell you what, Greg Venter, there will be no changes in human beings unless it goes through our office.
	But the point is, it was a dramatic indicator of how differently The same goal can be met for two completely different parallel agendas.
	And just as an aside, by the way, you might be interested in this.
	Craig Venter's current ambition right now is to search the open oceans for microbes that can produce high amounts of methane.
	Why is that interesting?
	The reason is that if we can use microbes, albeit maybe to modify to produce methane, which produces hydrogen, then all of a sudden we have a way of growing hydrogen, literally as a farm, as a horrible commodity, as opposed to digging holes in the ground and getting oil.
	This is something that I think is very valuable, and he's willing to finance this through his own private company.
	Well, something like that, or better, it better come long and soon.
	We're really headed for... Oh, I agree.
	In fact, to give you kind of a snapshot, I've been to many, many meetings, some of which I probably won't talk about in the air, but one which I will.
	I was at the Woodrow Wilson Institute in Washington, D.C.
	about a year ago, and I happened to share the stage with Richard Smalley, who actually won the Nobel Prize for his work in fluorine chemistry, and a lot of other people were there.
	But the whole context of the meeting was, we know energy is a problem, we see peak oil, we know it loud and clear.
	Even military people were there, and they believed me.
	They all saw the same thing.
	So what can you do about it?
	Here's what I think will probably happen in my own vision of things.
	It's not going to be any one solution fits all.
	I think this is kind of where people tend to go wrong a little bit.
	They think that, okay, we're going to scrap oil tomorrow and go into hydrogen.
	It's not going to happen that way.
	But I think what will happen will be a variety, kind of like a mosaic, of different... Name some of them.
	Okay, I think biofuels is a very good place to start.
	The whole idea of biodiesel, for instance.
	Nothing nano about that, though.
	Well, let me continue, if I may.
	Where the nano part comes in, by the way, think of it like this.
	If one can make materials that have specialized properties, like, for instance, that would be used in fuel cells, as an example, where the current manufacturing is kind of expensive and kind of tricky and requires a lot of complicated manufacturing steps, Especially for like the membranes and that kind of thing.
	If that could be optimized by a much less costly way to make the fuel cells, then all of a sudden it looks like a much more commercially viable concept.
	Alright, alright.
	Hold on Charles, we're at the bottom of the hour.
	Commercial concepts.
	Little things.
	Nanotechnology.
	Trying to cure a really big thing, and that would be peak oil in the declining years from the high desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
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	With Art Bell.
	It is.
	My guest is Charles Osman.
	We're talking about bio... Bio.
	Yeah, we are talking about biofuels, I guess, but nanotechnology, and he mentioned biofuels, as we're talking about things that might help to slow down the long emergency and, you know, the ultimate crisis point.
	And we're going to try and lay those things out for you, if they really do exist, or will shortly, in a moment.
	Remember the old thing about spinning straw into gold, or lead into gold, or, I don't know, water into oil, or
	whatever.
	I guess what I'm really asking, and you mentioned bio, is whether nanotechnology holds the promise of ordering materials at a molecular level to get together and become Oil.
	Or become some other combustible energy to change their nature and become combustible and usable as an energy source.
	Well, I wouldn't try to approach trying to replicate petrochemicals or hydrocarbon-based fuels.
	That may be kind of a different direction.
	But I would suggest that there are other ways to approach the same problem.
	And they would be?
	Well, for instance, it's not just the Consumption of fuel, it's also the efficiency of how the fuel is used.
	Given?
	You can approach both sides.
	Give me an example how you would increase the efficiency with nanotechnology.
	Well, for instance, the simplest answer would be something like, say, carbon nanofibers, which is a spectacular invention, really.
	It really revolutionizes the whole concept of strength-to-weight ratio and how things can be manufactured.
	And we're not going to see Carbon nanotubes in a car tomorrow, although there are tennis rackets made with them now, I should point out.
	And I want to get the whole story on something.
	If there's, alright, tennis rackets made of, what, nanotubes?
	Yes, carbon nanofibers.
	And what do they do?
	Okay, the carbon nanofibers, imagine now carbon atoms arranging themselves in a very perfect hexagonal pattern.
	You're thinking, well, so what?
	But here's why it's so interesting.
	Because once they align themselves up in that kind of a pattern, then it's a pretty straightforward process to make tubes, spheroids, so-called buckyballs.
	In fact, this is what Richard Smalley, one of the Nobel Prize winners, was developing.
	Okay, fine.
	There's already tennis rackets.
	What do these tennis rackets do that regular ones don't?
	They have spectacular tensile strength.
	They have spectacular strength-to-weight ratio.
	It's not so much that you're going to play a wonderful game of tennis, which you will, but what I'm hoping to point to is that if we could eventually make cars, for instance.
	Cars?
	Yes, cars, utilizing this kind of a material, then all of a sudden you have a much lighter vehicle, which is much stronger than the current vehicles could ever possibly be.
	Lighter, stronger, then much more efficient, less fuel to make it go from A to B. That's exactly right.
	And let me walk down the path a little further, since we did ask the question.
	Another concept is lubrication.
	The less friction you have, the more you gain.
	And there's a tremendous amount of opportunity in nanoscale materials that can be used as replacement for current lubricants.
	As a replacement for lubricants?
	Well, now we use oil now.
	Well, yes, indeed, which is actually a very sloppy and sort of inefficient way to loosen or lessen friction and reduce friction.
	And what would be better?
	Well, again, if you have nanocomponents or nanostructure materials which are perfect in their size and shape and sort of distribution over a given surface, and there's a lot being done, then all of a sudden you need a much thinner coating of the material which would last much longer, not need to be replaced, and the engine itself would run much smoother using less energy.
	Got it.
	So the pistons, the piston walls, would be so perfect It would be a complete change of the current way of looking at how these engines run.
	But let me walk a little bit further, if I may.
	I mean, right now we're looking at hybrid cars.
	And hybrid cars are kind of a combination between traditional combustion engines and using batteries.
	And when the car slows down or breaks, you actually capture that energy and then refeed that back into the batteries and so on.
	Which I think is a very good idea.
	I think this is a very good intermediate step.
	So let's talk about batteries for a moment.
	The battery technology world is also going to be changed by nanotechnology because, once again, you can have a much higher charge density and a much longer lifetime, if you will, for the materials.
	Now, this is still a few years away.
	But, again, I want to stop you.
	Let's say we had a nano battery, a one and a half volt flashlight size nano battery.
	It may not be a flashlight size, but you know, something a lot smaller than your garden Friday batteries are now.
	I don't care then.
	Make it a watch battery.
	I just want a comparison between a current battery and something that would be constructed by nanotechnology.
	Because, again, in current batteries, like your car battery, you have a lead-acid battery.
	It's plates of lead suspended in an acid.
	That's right.
	Which has been around for, you know, a century or more.
	But the problem is, if we try to fill up an entire car with these things, which some of the earlier electric vehicles did, Uh, it's very bad if A, the car crashed and you have battery acid everywhere, and B, the batteries don't last very long, and there's a lot of reasons why it's not so good.
	C, they're very heavy?
	They're very heavy, and they're just a dangerous thing to do.
	By extreme contrast, and there are several companies working on this now, which I won't go into because they're still under patent filing, but the basic idea is... All these secrets.
	Well, I'm so sorry, but just in a very general way... Alright, just give me an idea.
	A watch battery.
	You know, usually my watch battery, Charles, it lasts about a year.
	After about a year, you go, aw, damn, and you have to go to Radio Shack and get a new one.
	So, if you had something constructed by nanotechnology, what might we expect?
	We would expect a battery that could be recharged many, many times over again, hold the charge much longer, and not degrade over time.
	That would be the ultimate goal.
	And again, the reason is because you can now force the particles, or the substrates within the battery, to much more precisely align themselves.
	A thing like this, in traditional chemistry, you're trying to mix together a couple of solutions, and catalyze the reaction out the other end comes another solution.
	But that's only with a bulk of material and then all the molecules are still kind of loosely flopping around for the material.
	What you're hoping to do is create a much more structured, much more precise way to get all the molecules in question to form up into a pattern or to form into layers or whatever
	the target goal might be.
	Much like I'd like a much more precise answer. I've got a one-year watch battery.
	If I've got one that you're thinking of in the future, how long might it last?
	It might last forever. Just depends on how often you have to charge it and how severe
	the discharge process is.
	Well, for one thing, I don't charge watch batteries.
	I throw them away.
	Well, I understand that, and perhaps I'm using a somewhat bad analogy.
	I was referring more to a car battery, actually.
	Okay.
	But, you know, since we're talking about energy, I was hoping to try to sort of focus on that.
	And the basic idea is that if we could ever get to the point where the package that would power a car, even if it was only partially powered by electricity, would not have to use lead-acid batteries, but instead would use one of these new solid-state layered materials.
	Right.
	The weight would be much smaller, you could recharge the battery many, many times over again, and you would actually have a very commercially compatible solution to the current sort of attempt at hybrid cars.
	How far away from that might we be?
	I would say realistically five to seven years roughly, and again, especially in cars, and this may be a difficult answer, but to try to implement any kind of a major change In an automotive assembly line process, it takes about 10 years to go from prototype, to field test, to market survey, to eventually putting it together.
	And I think I was asking about how far to the battery itself, the creation of a nanotechnological battery.
	There are several companies working on them as we speak.
	I'm probably going to be a little bit hesitant to give you an exact answer, but I would say from what I can understand, it's probably about five to seven years when you start seeing commercial prototypes.
	All right, I understand there are already, there's clothing on the market right now, made by Nanotechnology.
	Correct.
	Is that right?
	What does this clothing do that my shirt or my pants don't do now?
	Okay, well I have a friend in England, her name is Jenny Tilburton, and she's actually been working on something, which is a company called Sensory Designs, and her approach is to actually build sensors right into the fabric of the clothing itself.
	Now her first product actually is going to be, believe it or not, To detect pregnancy in women.
	I'm not kidding.
	By pheromone relief.
	Really?
	He's actually been supported by a British pharmaceutical company.
	So what happens?
	My God, that's incredible.
	So a woman has a dress on.
	And it decides that she's pregnant and begins... Let me get this straight.
	Let me just guess.
	It begins to grow with the baby.
	Well, not exactly.
	Actually, there's a color change.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, yeah.
	But she's also working on couture gowns and things that will change with her mood.
	Well, since we're going that far, why don't we have it change pink for a girl and blue for a boy?
	I'm sure it could be worked out, but the basic concept of smart fibers has been around for several years.
	In fact, there was a company called Molecular Geodesics, which was doing some work for DARPA, and their interest was in a smart fiber that could filter out certain kinds of microbes or viruses and then actually tell the soldier that he was being attacked by the microbe in question by response from the cloth.
	Wow.
	And that goes back several years ago.
	So, I mean, a lot of the stuff is kind of hidden away in the military, but as is any other technology paradigm, it usually takes about a decade or so between the first prototypes, usually which are in the military domain, and then they eventually filter into the commercial world.
	And we're seeing the outcome of that now.
	Could there become something as lightweight as, say, your average Marine Corps uniform?
	That when it detected a bullet was coming at it, it toughened up and became something that would bounce the bullet.
	You're 100% on the mark.
	Surprising that you would make that come, because that's exactly one of the projects I actually saw.
	It was sort of a, not exactly a cloth, it was more like a plastic-like membrane, but that's exactly what would happen if a bullet impacted it.
	It would immediately harden up around the bullet.
	It was kind of like a new kind of bulletproof vest.
	Around the bullet?
	Yeah.
	It would just harden up in a zone.
	The impact zone would cause like an epicenter that would then radiate out from the point of impact and it would harden up at that spot.
	That's incredible.
	And that goes back about two or three years as far as I know.
	Two or three years?
	That's the first prototype that I read about.
	Well, I can see that you just know the military would not just be interested in something like that.
	They would be Fanatically.
	Oh, they're funding it big time.
	In fact, there's something at MIT called the Soldier of the Future Project, which it's on public domain, so you can download the website yourself.
	But basically, the tip of the iceberg of this kind of stuff, you can find there examples of it.
	And I, in fact, personally have spoken at a number of sort of DARPA-oriented conferences, and they've asked specific questions about certain areas, and I've given answers.
	But I mean, there's a lot that's going on.
	I think the Homeland Security concept being presented to the general public may hasten, actually, a lot of the stuff getting out into the general world, which I think would be a good thing.
	I mean, in terms of things that can detect biohazards, smart clothing that could be protective, and, you know, things of that nature.
	I can see this moving in the fast path pretty quickly.
	Will a lot of this get to the civilian populace as quickly as it does to the military black project money?
	Well, that's a tricky question, and I will try to answer it to the best of my ability.
	The reason Black Project money goes so far and does so quickly is because this is the double-edged sword.
	It's not under the auspices of Congressional control.
	There's no oversight committee that says, money this and do not spend money on that.
	So they have kind of the freedom to go explore all kinds of wild things, many of which don't work, by the way, but those that do get into the fast track of deployment.
	And so, yes, out of the Black Project's world, The timeline could be anything from a handful of years to maybe a decade or so.
	It depends on really what it is and what the motives are.
	So Black Project Money really is a scientist's best friend?
	In a sense, yes.
	And look, I'm not pro-military exactly, but I do understand the requirement and I can sort of understand the justification.
	As well as the facts of life.
	The facts of life, that is true.
	How much of a hold does the military have on some of this developing technology right now?
	A lot.
	I mean, they get it.
	I mean, they have really decided there's something interesting here.
	And nanotechnology, I have to make this point, is a very, very broad range of different kinds of scientific disciplines all sort of merged together.
	It's not exactly like a narrow single uh... tangent of scientific research is that the much
	broader realm it's kind of hard to answer the question if they will have
	much better to know did the military you know involved with because actually if
	you were to take the broader view
	just about everything from aerospace to you know the next generation aircraft to
	armored vehicles to smart garments and just a whole lot of other things all of
	which have come up for the matter of technology connected to as we speak
	um... alright uh... book But at least some of it's happening out here in the private sector.
	Yes.
	All right.
	What else have you heard about that's coming?
	I remember someone telling me, for example, about windows or even walls that could, for example, On your wish or your command, and I don't know how that would be made, but they would suddenly go from a wall that nobody could see through to something completely clear like a perfect window, virtually disappearing before your eyes.
	This has already been done.
	In fact, there are already been none.
	There are smart windows.
	You can buy these things if you wish.
	They're expensive, but you can buy them.
	What will they do?
	Well, imagine now, kind of like a smart shutter.
	That is, if you have Think back a few years ago, there used to be, I think you can still buy them, there were glasses you could buy that would change color over time.
	Oh yes.
	So now imagine dramatically accelerating that process, where it goes from completely clear to totally opaque in a millisecond or two.
	In a millisecond or two, that's virtually like that.
	Exactly right, and it's done with electrical charge.
	And so again, this was Dramatically increased because the efficiency or the effectiveness I should say was increased because of the precision with the different layers of the material could be formed up on the surface of the plate or the carrier material.
	And that's really what makes a lot of Come to pass is the way that you can get a bunch of molecules to suddenly behave themselves.
	I mean, you've actually seen it?
	Yes.
	How cool is it?
	I mean, I imagine you're looking at something solid, somebody throws a wall switch, an electric current flows, and boom, it becomes completely... Completely clear, like a window, exactly.
	It's quite something.
	Where did you see that?
	Oh, heavens.
	Actually, there was a demonstration of that at the NextFest conference, which was here on San Francisco last year, but it's been around for a couple years.
	Man, that's going to be popular.
	Well, it's kind of pricey, but I think once the production process gets ironed out, yeah, it'll be common.
	Of course, it's pricey, new things always are, but that's going to be incredibly popular.
	Homes overlooking San Francisco on a nice night, you know, they throw a switch and BOOM!
	There it is!
	The walls are gone and there's San Francisco laid out in front of them, but the heating and the cooling and all remain just the same.
	Well, one more caveat if I were to throw that in, because you're tapping into something since we were talking about energy.
	Another big piece of this puzzle is in the power grid, you know, home of energy supplies and industry and that kind of thing.
	Yes.
	An enormous amount of effort is being spent on how to make buildings and houses much more efficient using materials kind of like this in a way.
	And if we can Absolutely.
	have to pay capture both waste heat and waste light absolutely converted to something useful that's a enormous
	breakthrough absolutely and there and uh... i i would say just there are
	dozens of companies that were pushing at the debate the the dollars waiting for
	them so they're going for it
	uh... well that's it But the dollars are waiting for them, because all of this can be patented, right?
	That's part of the process.
	Now, just to tell the audience how this works, usually when venture capital groups say, we'd like something, let's have a look at it, the first thing they want to know is, what's the patent?
	I mean, that's the beginning.
	Of course, of course, because if they're going to invest money, they want to know they're going to get a return.
	That is exactly right.
	And, you know, this is a good and a bad thing.
	I'm not saying this is a panacea.
	I'm just saying this is how that particular process works.
	But to kind of carry on a step further, I think that there are many people now who are much more willing to recognize that we have to sort of turn a corner in terms of our energy policy, not just with cars, but with everything, electrical grids and the whole nine yards.
	So the expectance of looking at new things is much greater than it was before, and therefore the motivation to invest in these things is much more than it once was.
	And I think that actually is a good thing.
	All right, well, whether it's in the private sector or in the military, Charles, any technology, nanotechnology, definitely fits into this category.
	Extremely, potentially, extremely powerful.
	It's already proving itself to be so.
	Yes, indeed.
	But also potentially extremely dangerous.
	This is true.
	And I want some real truth from you on this subject in the next hour.
	I mean, I think most of the audience has heard The Grey Goose story, although I guess we'll run through the possibility of Grey Goose.
	Scientists both in the private sector and in the government, military sector, tend to go ahead and do things to see what happens, you know?
	And I'm not necessarily gleefully on that side of the fence, and there is certain dangers that in fact we will gladly deliver.
	Alright, we'll be in a moment.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, talking of the small stuff, nanotechnology.
	I'm Art Bell.
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	Running with the night, playing in the shadows, the kind of work we do here at Coast to Coast AM.
	Charles Ostman is my guest.
	We're talking about nanotechnology and coming up in just a second, the possible dark side of the little stuff.
	Sound of explosion.
	Music.
	You know, success, success and history forgive a lot of things.
	And the world just barely remembers that when we were about to harness the power of the atom,
	applied first, I might add, to a bomb, of course we were in a world war,
	and there were perhaps a million lives at stake.
	Nevertheless, there was a very strong body of scientific feeling at the time.
	That if we exploded an atomic bomb in the atmosphere, there was a pretty significant possibility that the entire atmosphere, according to the scientists at the time, might virtually explode in a chain reaction.
	That we might start a chain reaction that would envelop the entire world and destroy all of us.
	That really was a strong scientific opinion at the time.
	Nevertheless, With the pressure of the war and all the rest of it, and for whatever reason, we pressed the button.
	And it's not the only example of that kind of science that we've done.
	We have virtually erased people's immune systems with AIDS, and introduced the immune system of other animals into that human being, with potentially deadly results for all of humanity.
	Not that it happened, nor did the entire atmosphere explode, but with nanotechnology, grey goo, and no doubt endless other possibilities, there comes that moment when a scientist, Charles, has a choice of pressing a button with perhaps unknown, unpredictable results.
	Inevitably, the button gets pressed.
	Well, I think about this a lot, Art.
	In fact, I've served on several committees in Washington, D.C.
	and elsewhere with exactly these thoughts in mind.
	So it's not like we're just sort of blindly charging into this.
	In fact, I've talked to Bill Joy a number of times.
	He's the person, of course, that authored the very famous article that kind of was the first real warning on the horizon of Wired Magazine published him.
	And he's a very brave guy.
	I really respect him a lot.
	What, Grego?
	He was... Yeah, he talked about Grego.
	He talked about, sort of, A complete collapse of socio-economic infrastructure, and suddenly nanotech, you know, got out of hand.
	Yes.
	And yet he also recognized that this was a two-edged sword, as with all technologies.
	And I might just offer a little caveat before I mention the one that I'm most afraid of.
	I tend to view evolution as a kind of a trauma-induced process.
	That sounds a little weird, but my explanation is that, given that the periodicity and amplitude of the trauma cycles don't exceed the system's capacity to respond, It will come back more robust, and it happens in human experience.
	It happens throughout all of nature.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	I think what you're saying to me right now is, look, if something awful happens, it just might be a wonderful evolutionary leap, even though it kills millions of people.
	I didn't say a wonderful evolutionary leap.
	I'm saying that we are addressing a challenge, and the challenge is to either have the spiritual wisdom, and I use those words carefully, Uh, to understand what we're dealing with and use it wisely, or we will perish at our own folly.
	Alright, the things you are most afraid of with regard to this technology.
	Okay, the two areas that I'm most focused on.
	Yes.
	Uh, proteomic selection, and I'll explain what that is.
	Please.
	And, or Predimate Targeting, as it's often called.
	And the other one, which I would call Selective Disassembly.
	Oh, okay.
	Selective Disassembly.
	Let's start with that.
	Okay.
	I understand that a little.
	Selective Disassembly.
	Sure, and think of it like this.
	In fact, when the movie Andromeda Strain came out many years ago, which I thought was kind of a cool film.
	It was a little bit ahead of its time, but it had the right idea.
	If you remember, the very first scene in the film, they show a jet pilot flying around up in the upper atmosphere.
	And all of a sudden, his gear starts to dissolve.
	I mean, like, his face mask, his oxygen mask, the windshield of the aircraft starts falling apart and he dies.
	I remember.
	And so that was actually a particularly interesting snapshot of this concept, even though this film came out, I believe, in the mid-60s.
	It was kind of leaning in that direction.
	So now, we actually have, I think, within a handful of years, perhaps, the ability to begin to unravel how this could actually be done.
	And I think that the target goal could be, and I'm not saying it's going to be done, but I'm saying that there are people looking at this.
	What if a weapon system could be developed that could, say, target mission-critical materials in vehicles?
	Could disable a tank, or disable a truck, or maybe even bring an aircraft down, because you could target specific chemistries within that structure, and then dissolve them on the spot, using some kind of nano-device, if you will, or nanite system.
	Are you saying that an aircraft could just basically eat itself up, vaporize?
	Maybe not the whole aircraft, but certain key components.
	If you knew what chemistries you were looking for, exactly.
	Well, it wouldn't take many key components to... That's exactly right.
	The more complex the system, the more fragile it becomes.
	That's exactly right.
	And so imagine now, especially organic materials, the rubbers and the Plastics and all the special materials for the gaskets and all that kind of thing.
	Of course.
	If you let loose the right kind of sort of quasi-viral component like nanodevices, I'll just throw out as a word, that could instantaneously begin to dissolve these or break these things down to the point where they rupture or fail.
	Yes, that would be exactly the target goal.
	The problem with this idea, as I'm sure many people are thinking, is, well, wait a second.
	That may sound good for a theoretical battlefield concept, but what if the stuff sort of gets loose?
	Yeah, in other words, if you construct something that eats rubber away and fine gaskets and seals fail, an airplane comes quickly out of the sky, but then this same stuff somehow doesn't get the end-of-job instruction.
	Exactly right, and this is precisely where I have had some particularly heated discussions saying This is not an area we want to be going in, but, you know, I mean, what can I say?
	I'm just one voice amongst many.
	But that is an area where I think if there was, and let me continue on in sort of a specific vein with this, because here in this country, in the United States, I think there are a lot of good people who are trying very, very hard, and I mean quite literally the best that they can do.
	To come up with reasonable protocols and industrial sort of safety codes and that kind of thing to make sure the stuff doesn't get too crazy.
	Yes.
	However, elsewhere in the world, maybe like in China for instance.
	Maybe like in China, yeah.
	Where they don't really have environmental regulations or health or safety codes or any of that stuff at all.
	Not that we would recognize them anyway.
	They don't have limitations.
	I'll use that word kind of carefully.
	On how they judge the efficacy of these concepts.
	Let me tell you something real quick, Charles.
	I got a call this morning from Bob Crane.
	He's one of my advertisers.
	He's in Shenzhen, China right now.
	He said you can't breathe.
	Yeah, I understand.
	He said that right now it's so bad that your eyes water.
	Everything you have waters.
	You sneeze all the time.
	It's almost Not breathable air for human beings.
	I understand.
	In fact, it's kind of like Soylent Green, sort of, in a way, already taking place in China.
	It's a very sad and very telling example of a failure of sorts.
	Okay, so we've established what they're doing over there right now.
	They surely are not going to be particularly careful if they start What's China doing with nanotechnology?
	They're doing a lot.
	They're spending big money on this, and in fact, you know, I live right just down the street from the University of California in Berkeley, and I can tell you just from personal knowledge, I would say probably 15% of the population there, at least, if not more, is from Asia, and the vast majority of these students are in, you know, chemistry, physics, and sort of different tangential areas of nanotechnology.
	And if you look at the publications of papers, if you look at the technical documents that come out of the various trade journals and scientific journals, an ever-increasing number are coming right out of China, or certainly out of Chinese nationals, who of course will go back to China once they finish their education here.
	And this is exactly where they're going.
	They see this now.
	China, for a lot of different reasons, and now we're talking about China, but I mean, they clearly are the most aggressive industrialization ramp up in history that we know of.
	And clearly they see now technology as their pathway.
	Well, there's a military side to it, and there's also a private sector side that's not going to be nearly as careful as we are, and I'm not convinced we're that careful.
	obviously but i have no doubt there's a military factor
	well as a motorist i do it and there's also a private sector side that's not
	going to be nearly as careful as we are not convinced were that careful so i thought that
	that the one check that might offer it for him for interrupting but it
	was here we have the potential for litigation that is if something gets a
	ridiculously out of hand you know the companies are afraid of getting sued out
	of existence But again, elsewhere, that's not the case.
	Yeah, but you can't sue the dead, though.
	I'm not defending this at all.
	I'm just saying this is kind of what it is.
	No, I've got that.
	But I mean, if selective disassembly became mass disassembly, This could be a very bad thing.
	I am truly on your side with this.
	I'm not suggesting we want to do this, but I'm saying it's a possibility.
	All right.
	With the fact in mind that China might not have all the same cautions in place that we do, how worried are you?
	I think it's something to be concerned about.
	Not tomorrow, but maybe in five or ten years.
	I mean, people could start experimenting with this stuff and we wouldn't even know it.
	Here's the real rub with nowtech, if I could just back away a little bit, just a larger view.
	Sure.
	If you look at, for instance, the nuclear threat, which is all... When I was engaged in Star Wars projects myself, personally, that was the big deal.
	We were afraid of incoming, you know, rockets from Russia, that kind of thing.
	Yes.
	So we were designing particle beams and lasers and that kind of stuff to deal with it.
	Okay, fine.
	At least there was a kind of a simpler world.
	We knew what the enemy was, we knew what they were going to do, and we had some ways to counteract that.
	That's right.
	With nuclear technology in general, you can see what's going on.
	Even with Iran and so forth now, we can tell what they're doing.
	We can measure, we can see it, we sort of know what's going on.
	With this nano stuff, you can't really see anything.
	I mean, it could be easily hidden away inside of an office building or...
	In an ordinary looking, even a domestic house of some sort.
	I mean, it doesn't take a big, giant facility with lots of infrastructure.
	I'm not so convinced, Charles, we know what's going on.
	I agree with you, Art.
	I think there's a lot going on.
	We can only guess that.
	I mean, it's not like we had it all down pat before we went to war with Iraq.
	I agree with you, Art.
	I were on the same page.
	And that's a good metaphor to suggest how far off our intelligence really can be.
	And there we were going for something kind of simple, you know, big chemistry, big nuclear, that kind of stuff.
	This new generation of stuff could literally be hidden away anywhere, and so this is going to be a very difficult thing to keep track of.
	Yes, nanotechnology is something that can be done in a little lab way underground, and it doesn't radiate that I know of, so there's no real way to trace it as we might nuclear devices.
	Exactly right, that was the point I was trying to make, and you said that very well.
	All right, the first thing you talked about was selective disassembly, or no, that was the second thing, I'm sorry.
	What was the first thing?
	Proteomic targeting is the other one.
	What is that?
	Okay, well this is more of a nanobiology world, but the two sort of overlap.
	And proteomic targeting, this is one of those interesting examples where it could be a spectacular medical breakthrough, it could be a horrible weapon.
	They both come at the same time.
	So here's how this really works.
	And in fact, oddly enough, just to give you some background, I spoke with Dr. Canelo Beck, who I think you've had on your show before, He was the Supreme Director of Bioweapon Development for the Soviet Union before he defected in 1994, and he wrote a book called Biohazard, which goes into great detail about the Soviet program at the time.
	But, to kind of give a background, the original theme of biowarfare was to create horrible microbes that could do awful things, basically by modifying existing microbes that were generally released into the general population.
	Proteomic targeting says that you make a much more selective microorganism that goes for specific genetic traits.
	For example?
	Like a racial trait.
	People of a certain racial proclivity.
	You could key on anything that could be genetically mapped could be theoretically targeted by the right kind of designer, I'll call it a quasi-viral component for a better choice of words.
	And a virus, just to let the audience kind of get a picture of this, what a virus does really Like a hand to a glove, it has a proteomic surface, like a chemical coating, that specifically matches, because of the RNA structure involved, with the exact kind of cell that you're looking for.
	Now, the reason this is interesting is because, in medicine, for instance, the real problem with today's medicine, for the most part, is that you have to put into the bloodstream, or you put into the body, A compound that hopefully will correct some kind of physiological problem.
	Usually, though, the end result is that it causes other problems.
	They either have to correct for it, you know, more drugs to counteract the results of the first drug, and so on.
	With proteomic targeting, you could very precisely say just go to that one kind of cell, and in fact go into that cell and only affect one part of the cell, and then do something that's interesting.
	This is a huge medical breakthrough.
	This could completely revolutionize healthcare, as we know it to be.
	Alright, weaponize.
	The flip side is, if you weaponize this, and you said, I don't like people of, I don't know, Arab descent, or African origin, or something, whatever, you could just pick a racial proclivity that you don't like, and then look for those genetic markers, yes, it could be really, really bad.
	And the really awful part is, Microbes, especially viruses, tend to mutate on their own.
	You were talking about unexpected consequences.
	Well, this is just the kind of unexpected consequences that could really be the worst of all possible things, because if you begin to build these kinds of designer delivery systems, where you're hoping to kill off a population and then sort of step in and take over their territory, who's to say that that thing you just hatched wouldn't mutate into something else that you didn't expect?
	This could be, you know, the human race could find its ultimate demise rather quickly if a What kind of a nanobiological weaponry approach were taken by somebody that we didn't even know were developing it, as an example?
	Well, I know that there are Islamic fundamentalists right now.
	Absolutely.
	Who, if they did have something that would target... White people or something?
	You know, whatever.
	White people.
	Yeah, sure.
	They wouldn't hesitate for a second.
	I know.
	And remember, I said extremists.
	Yeah, I understand that.
	And I hate to say this.
	If the United States government wasn't working on a very similar... I sense what you're getting at, but let me see if I can help this process.
	What I do know is that many people are extremely worried about this, and so we're trying to come up with remedies, that is, ways to predictively sense or detect things that we don't know exist yet.
	This is the problem with biowarfare in general.
	It's one thing to have a genetic library of the bad microbes you're hoping to detect and therefore somehow protect against or have some kind of remedy for it.
	May I ask a question, please?
	If something like this was concocted and released to kill all the white people in the world or the black people in the world, whatever, how quickly could it work?
	Depends on the delivery mechanism, but if it was an airborne solution that was extremely virulent, it could be weeks or a month or two.
	It could be pretty quick.
	And here's one of the other, if you look at epidemiological trends in today's world, there was a woman named Lori Garrett who wrote a very good book about this a few years ago, and she went into exhaustive detail to map out precisely the acceleration of epidemic trends as we see them.
	And it's a combination of changing climate, changing population densities, people traveling much more than they used to in times past.
	In other words, In a previous era, if something broke out, it would sort of stay in that one area for a length of time.
	Nowadays, it could be overnight because somebody could be on a plane that wouldn't even know that they had the thing in question.
	That's right.
	And this stuff could spread almost overnight.
	And the problem is that if you don't know what you're looking for, if there's no genetic signatures to say, this is a bad microbe and therefore we need to come up with a vaccine or some way to kill it, then you don't know what you're dealing with until it's already too late.
	That's the real... Well, that's what I was concerned about.
	That's the question mark that nobody has an answer for.
	I understand that you want to build protections against these things, but they're going to be so specifically technologically detailed that it's going to be all over by the time we come up with the defense.
	Is there some sort of general antibiotic for this sort of thing?
	No, there is not that I know of.
	Look, I'm not a specialist, by the way, in biopathogens from this perspective.
	That's not my background.
	But I will say this much.
	One thing that might be interesting to your audience, and in fact, George Noria has made this point several times, I find it extremely interesting that over the past couple, three years, a number of microbiologists and people who specialize in precisely this area of science have all been killed in kind of strange ways.
	I know.
	I'm not a conspiracy guy, but I say, looking at this from the surface, I go, hmm, this is interesting.
	And if one were to take this a step further and say, well, why would somebody be organizing the murder or disposing of all these specialists?
	It would be with this kind of objective in mind, in my opinion.
	In other words, concern about this.
	Well, of course, whenever a microbiologist or somebody in one of these fields is, in some strange way, leaving this earth, it's widely flashed around the internet.
	would be to remove those people who could invent an antidote.
	Well, of course, whenever a microbiologist or somebody in one of these fields is in some
	strange way leaving this earth, it's widely flashed around the internet.
	So I'm not sure if it's a disproportionate number of people who are coming to disagreeable
	ends or not, or whether we just hear about it a lot on the internet.
	I haven't made up my mind about that yet.
	Have you?
	Well, it's funny.
	I was actually at the Bio 2004 conference last year, which is a huge conference, the largest biotech conference in the world.
	If you go to bio.org, you can get a download of all the stuff.
	30 seconds.
	Sure.
	I went to the security seminar within that conference and had a You know, a few moments with some of the top security chiefs in the sort of bio-defensive world.
	And they were talking about?
	They had this on their mind.
	It was not exactly an unknown topic.
	All right.
	So, it's not just internet traffic.
	Those who know about these kinds of things in these fields are noting, boy, that's pretty serious.
	If true, that worries me.
	How about you?
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
	I'm a morning from a forgotten movie, In a country where they turn back time.
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	She comes out of the sun in a silk dress, running like a water gun in the rain.
	You go strolling through the crowd like Peter or a country lady in a crime.
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	We keep coming upon these incredible things that can either save us or...
	Or kill us?
	Can we keep having these choices?
	Well, nanotechnology is the newest in this category of things that may save us or kill us.
	At the moment, we're sort of talking about the dark side.
	Now that's, that's perhaps not something we should spend a whole lot of time on.
	It is a very, very dark side.
	I'm sure you'll see movies made and all the rest about the dark side.
	The upside is very I'm very optimistic.
	I mean, it could do incredible things for mankind, and we're going to talk about those, too.
	All right, in a few moments, I'm going to invite you all to ask questions of Charles Osman.
	That's one good way to slow him down.
	Is to let you all ask him specific questions.
	This is a really fascinating topic because it's now.
	Nanotechnology is breaking out all over the place and it's for real.
	It's not science fiction.
	Some aspects of it perhaps are, but it's really underway.
	I mean, it's not just written about, thought about, imagined.
	It's actually underway right now and it may change our world if it doesn't destroy it.
	Well, this is the way of things, and you're exactly right with your previous comment.
	This is just another step in our potential evolution, but we have to somehow, and this may be impossible, but in my way of looking at it, we need to have a kind of a spiritual evolution in sync with our technical evolution.
	This may be a challenge that is seen in many other worlds, and we're just one of many worlds that goes through this trial and error process.
	Okay.
	What weapon have we invented that we haven't used?
	Oh, gosh.
	Or tested.
	I'm not sure I'm supposed to talk about this.
	Forgive me.
	I wasn't expecting that kind of a question.
	Well, it's a good question.
	It's a wonderful question.
	I'll say this much.
	The weapons that I know of, I'll just keep it that way, are for the most part defensive.
	Are these weapons you can talk of or know of or can talk of?
	How much classified stuff do you know?
	Oh, some areas.
	I've spoken at some DARPA conferences.
	I have signed some papers from time to time, non-disclosure agreements, this kind of thing.
	I used to carry a clearance, but I haven't carried a clearance for quite a few years.
	But I still have friends in certain areas that we talk.
	But I want to make a point really clear.
	For the most part, the stuff that I know is basically defensive.
	That is, most of the research that I have seen some examples of are ways to counteract something horrible happening.
	That's not to say, however, that elsewhere in the world, the opposite is the primary objective.
	How could we not be working on offensive weapons in this field?
	How could we not be?
	That's what I kind of started to ask you earlier.
	That's a fair question.
	I think the most interesting, or most spectacular, is the antimatter weapon that the Air Force quietly admitted they were developing.
	I've seen some evidence of that.
	You think we have an antimatter weapon?
	I think we're trying to get one, yes.
	Absolutely.
	What would an antimatter weapon It would make a really big blast with no radioactive signature.
	A really big blast?
	A really big blast.
	I mean, this would just make a hydrogen bomb look small by comparison.
	And it wouldn't have a bunch of dirty materials left over as a result.
	If you wanted to obliterate a portion of a continent, I guess you could.
	That may be over exaggerating, but I mean, that would be sort of the context.
	Without making it unusable for countless years.
	That's right, exactly.
	We're having a big Big controversy right now.
	You may have seen some of the recent headlines with regard to Yucca Mountain.
	Oh, absolutely.
	And some of those emails are absolutely worrisome.
	Yes, I agree.
	Look, I worked back in the mid-70s, back in Carter's time, right here at Lawrence Lab.
	We were trying to figure out then what to do with nuclear waste.
	We didn't have an answer, by the way.
	I think we still don't.
	Well, I agree with you, and this is a very tricky thing to work with, because in the pure ideological world, nuclear power is actually a good solution.
	I fully understand that.
	The problem is that A, the plants are not that reliable, and B, the waste is undisposable.
	So what do you do?
	I mean, I clearly agree.
	And I also got wind recently that there is some debate about some potential fake documents being produced in terms of the Yucca Mountains.
	That's what I was talking about.
	And, you know, this is not the first time this has been done.
	You know, sometimes people and their little political empires, all they want to do is see a result that suits their political interests.
	They're not really interested in the larger picture.
	And this is a classic example of just that kind of, you know, unfortunate aspect.
	Unfortunate aspect.
	This is material we're going to have to keep safe for a minimum of 10,000 years.
	We haven't done anything for 10,000 years.
	I know.
	And in fact, if you want to see a good example of how bad things can go, just try visiting Chernobyl, because I have friends that actually have been to the Ukraine, and they've gone there for that very reason.
	Chernobyl is a kind of a very unfortunate, but very viable sort of a test bed, like a Petri dish, to show what can happen when a lot of nuclear waste suddenly gets dumped into the What is the truth of how it's going at Chernobyl?
	I mean, I've seen specials, I've heard rumors, I've heard reports, but I've heard that the sarcophagus is disintegrating, I've heard there could be an explosion, I've heard all kinds of awful stuff.
	I don't know about an explosion, but yeah, the concrete has a lifetime of X, and under radiation it falls apart, as most materials do, by the way.
	But that's not the real problem.
	The real problem is what's already happened, and it's very sad.
	The Ukrainian people are a wonderful people.
	They're very strong, very tough, and very smart, and yet they've had a horrendous situation to deal with because this stuff has gone into the water table, it's gone into the farming situation, it's appearing in milk, it's appearing in the fruits and vegetables.
	You know, hundreds of miles away, they're still getting readings off the scale.
	And so the results are cancers and mutant efficiencies, like AIDS, as it were, caused by the radiation in some context.
	Well, it's been a lot of years now.
	Do we have any estimates, or has it all been hushed up, of the reality of how many deaths it's caused?
	How many cancers?
	It's a good question, because it's very complicated.
	The politics is very complicated, and I'm not qualified to go into detail about Ukrainian politics, but there's a lot of concern about It's not good, I can say that much.
	And so should we be looking at something like that here?
	a really tough time and for the last minute when it was broadcast how about period of the third that's really a
	good try to attract investment rights you know for me it's complicated there
	there is no clear answer for that
	it's it's it's not good it's so should we be looking at something like that here
	well take a place like a come out with a regular where you are
	and other well Hello, Mr. Bell.
	okay this is safe there's no damage or potential or whatever is ludicrous i i
	don't know where you could put the stuff that would be safe uh... you're right we
	don't have a ten thousand thousand year period of history where anything from stable for that
	the question that i'm not sure i have an up for or can give working at that
	uh... all right a few questions uh... we're going to start peppering you with
	questions while caroline you're on the air with charles osmond good morning
	almost about but this one
	i just want to have enjoyed your show for many years and i really appreciate
	your show Thank you.
	My name is Clint, and I'm from Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
	Okay.
	Can I mention an author's name in regards to the show tonight, or not?
	An author's name?
	Yes, I guess.
	Michael Critton, book Prey.
	I know the book all too well, sadly.
	I read the book, and it was very intriguing, but I had a couple of questions.
	One was in regards to nanotechnology's use in medicine.
	You touched on it in use of pointing out or attacking certain illnesses.
	Can it also repair?
	Yes, that's exactly right.
	Like an aneurysm?
	Well, let me explain a little bit further, if I may.
	I actually testified to the FDA last year on exactly this topic, and what I testified about was the following, and hopefully I can answer the question directly, but here's what I'm leading up to.
	uh... regulatory or compliance because of the fda dictates there's two very distinct the separate areas of medicine
	what to do with chemistry that's drug which in
	operate right recognition the other two machines or devices
	we're not going out to come to the for a combined the two were were now looking
	at very specifically sort of molecule flies things like little machines almost
	that really can go in and in fact correct or situation before it even happens
	uh... i'm i'm curious uh... charles if such a thing a little machine existed
	with that little machine be classified as a pharmaceutical
	or would it be classified uh...
	I mean, it's not a chemical, exactly.
	Well, that's why the FDA was having these discussions, because they don't know.
	They're trying to figure that out as we speak.
	That's exactly the question that they have posed before them.
	So they're not sure.
	Well, and they're trying to sort this out.
	So let me give you an example as kind of a pinprick, if you will.
	Well, aneurysm.
	He mentioned aneurysm.
	Okay, that's a good question.
	I'm going to steer you towards one area of chemistry that might be sort of interesting.
	There's something called dendrimers.
	And these are large molecules which look like a large branching structure.
	That's why they're called dendrimers.
	But the reason they're interesting is because they can be packed up with lots of other materials inside them.
	They have an unbelievable capacity for holding other materials.
	And yet, because of the chemistry involved, they're biologically friendly.
	So they look like a protein in a way.
	And in fact, you can coat the outside with Very specific enzymes and proteomic materials so that you can go after something like an aneurysm or some other targeted region within the body and say, OK, go there and then do something interesting.
	So whether it's to open up a cell and stop it like a cancer cell or to change the blood flow in a certain region or to modify the behavior of some physiological process, that's exactly what they're doing as we speak.
	In fact, there's a couple of companies who are now beginning to produce These dendromer systems as a delivery mechanism for these kinds of problems.
	But still undetermined whether it's a machine and outside the purview of the FDA.
	Boy, what a mess that's going to be for them.
	It's not going to be a mess, but it's a very strange new area of science.
	And I'll give you an example.
	One of the companies I happen to know quite well, they went to Australia because Australia said, well, we're not quite so finicky about How we're going to regulate this.
	We would like to see if this is even possible.
	So, as a kind of an end run around the somewhat slower process that we have here, they went to Australia so they could start human trials in about three or four years.
	Wow.
	Well, exactly.
	This is what's happening.
	In other words, the idea of medicine just being a chemical is quickly being replaced by sort of a combination of chemo-mechanical, I guess you might say, solutions.
	Chemo-mechanical.
	That's a good way to put it, I suppose.
	Um, so in countries where it's not quite so restricted, again, like China.
	And Taiwan is a good example as well.
	And Taiwan.
	Who knows what might come?
	The problem is that allowing them to have this sort of free reign, not that we can stop them, could be to our distinct disadvantage, couldn't it?
	For a number of reasons.
	A, commercially, if the biotech world, and I use that word kind of carefully, But the sort of nanobiology, medicine, biotech arena, they sort of all merge together.
	People are going to start going to where they can find medical solutions.
	You bet.
	And, you know, I mean, if I had cancer and I thought I could go to Taiwan to get one of these new sort of nanosolutions, of course I'd go there.
	You'd be on your way.
	The flip side says, could the same general direction technology end up becoming some kind of a weapon that we don't even know about?
	Of course.
	That's the flip side I'm calling.
	All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning to you, guests, and good morning to the listening audience.
	All right, for what biotechnology is concerned, it is suggested that the AIDS virus was manufactured in that vein.
	There is a website that kind of stimulates that.
	I'm not going to allow you to put it on the air, but okay.
	Okay, I won't do that.
	I won't put it on there.
	Thank you.
	But I will say this.
	Seems like there seems to be a heavy proclivity for the AIDS virus to affect black people other than other races, because we're no more promiscuous than anybody else.
	And it seems to have been, according to this website, seems to have been manufactured to affect a particular race.
	Look at how it's devastating Africa, for which you'll get free to that.
	Yeah, have at it, Charles.
	He's right.
	This is a good question, and there's a person named Roulette Smith who I've known for many years.
	I met him at Stanford many years ago, who's an African person himself.
	He's one of the leading specialists in sort of unusual epidemiological situations, and he's looked at AIDS and he's also looked at prions very carefully.
	Now, whether AIDS was a manufactured virus specifically could be a debate.
	But it did somehow get from monkeys, which is where it was originally thought to originate, and into the human population.
	So the story goes.
	So the story goes.
	And there were a lot of people who kind of theorized that, going back about 20 years or so, there were a number of countries, U.S., France, Russia, you name it, who were kind of tinkering with biowarfare possibilities.
	Yes.
	A lot of them got a certain way into it and then said, wait a minute, this stuff's too dangerous because we don't know what the end result could be.
	Listen, you can go back and get the minutes of some congressional hearings, Charles.
	I know you know this.
	Yes.
	To be honest with you, AIDS was discussed.
	They didn't call it AIDS necessarily, but they said exactly what it would do.
	Yes, they wanted to be able to, in a controlled way, suppress the immune system.
	And should they have found the virus available in a monkey, with a little bit of modification to see if it could be spread to the human population, it's certainly a possibility.
	I won't deny that it's not possible.
	I don't have any specific evidence, but I wouldn't rule it out.
	I couldn't just not rule it out.
	God.
	I don't know where it came from.
	And this is the weird thing.
	A lot of people are trying really hard to figure out what to really do, because if AIDS was an early, kind of primitive example of how... Imagine what they could do now.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Believe me, people are thinking about this carefully.
	I mean, they were trying as much as they can.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Charles.
	This is Lori.
	How are you?
	Okay.
	I guess you guys kind of covered my question a couple callers ago, but going back to the positive biological implications of this, it was explained to me that it's like people are working on microscopic robot-type things that can be introduced into the body almost as an army to fight cancer cells.
	Is that a good way of looking at it?
	Maybe not like new robots, but certainly like It's getting fuzzy, because, you know, define life.
	Well, this is not such an easy thing to do.
	biological well yes and no as a very biological biology and machine that you
	guys are trying to be it's getting fuzzy is right it's getting fuzzy
	because you know define life well this is not that such a thing to do people
	like Craig Venter for instance can invent life on the fly just as a
	program as a software routine so I mean we are at the let me try a different
	This may be a little bit far out, but forgive me.
	If one looks at what, you know, insurance companies, for instance, talk about acts of God, you know, whether natural cause of death, that kind of thing.
	Well, the acts of God are becoming ever further and further away from what we used to define as something belonging to out there.
	Because now we can synthetically contrive these things at will.
	And contriving new life forms is becoming a roach kind of science.
	So, you know, define life.
	So the theory is, if we can sort of come up with a quasi-life-form-like thing, I'll just put it that way, that can interact with the body's immune system, or in some way interact with other systems within the body to help correct for something, that's kind of where it's going.
	Now, how far that will go, in what context, I can only speak from the perspective of the Folks I work with here in this country, now elsewhere in the world.
	She said tiny robots in the body.
	That is what it boils down to, isn't it?
	In a sense, yes.
	I mean, a virus is a tiny robot, so it's not a machine with little gears and pistons and so forth, but it is a machine of sorts, and that's kind of where things are at as we speak.
	So that's a yes, ma'am.
	That's scary, but amazing.
	Well, let me try a different approach.
	One of the areas that I think really is fascinating is in neural interface.
	That is the ability to interface with the circuitry within the brain and amplify its functions.
	And this is being done.
	In fact, an article just came out a couple days ago about this fellow who was severely injured in a knife fight.
	Now he has a chip in his brain so he can think commands to his computer and so forth.
	Wait, back up.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	A fellow who has a chip in his brain.
	We're talking about something now?
	Yes, it's in Daily News.
	Now, this has been going on for years.
	He's just the most recent version of it that's been publicly talked about.
	I hadn't heard of this.
	I mean, we've all heard about it in science fiction.
	You're telling me there's actually a guy walking around with a chip in his brain?
	Yeah, yeah.
	This is in Britain.
	In fact, his last name isn't able.
	I can even pull up the article on my computer screen.
	What is he able to do?
	The basic idea is that he was paralyzed in a knife fight in the year 2001, as I recall.
	Yes.
	And the idea was that he can now think commands to his computer that controls his body functions, his movements, that kind of thing.
	Really?
	Absolutely.
	Well, if he can do that, then why can't a fighter pilot control when to fire a Hellfire missile?
	As in the film Firefox, you're right on the right path.
	In fact, right past an Air Force base.
	I'm not kidding at all.
	I was trying this back in the late 80s.
	And I could explain more about that, if you wish.
	You're telling me... Alright, hold on, Charles.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	Why not?
	Huh?
	A pilot sitting with, uh... Well, what does he even need a heads-up display for?
	That's just in front of his brain.
	And, uh, he goes Fox 1.
	Before you can even, or just as quickly as you can think it, or as quickly as he can think it, and it's all over.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	I'm a woman.
	I'm a man.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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	Indeed so!
	Who loves you, baby?
	Well, the nanotechnology scientists love you, baby.
	Right?
	Cause you're a consumer.
	We'll be right back.
	I remember, now I could be wrong about this, but I remember I had a, you know, a VIC-20 computer.
	Then I had a Commodore 64, and so forth and so on, until today we're up in the three gigahertz range someplace or another, 3.6, 3.5, I don't know where we are right now, but I have begun to note that it's slowing down.
	It doesn't seem to me that we're making the same kind of leaps in computer speed Certainly in storage we are.
	It's getting cheaper and bigger and better.
	But in terms of speed, I think we're slowing down.
	Now somebody may call and correct me on that and say it's not true, but it doesn't seem like we're making quite the same doubling leaps that we were making.
	So we may be approaching some sort of wall, and there are many people who believe that nanotechnology may hold the future In other words, when it gets too thin and too hard to do with traditional materials, it may be nanotechnology that makes our next computer.
	Could that be, Charles?
	That's exactly what's happening.
	In fact, a lot of the people who present at my conferences and people I work with in the venture community, this is precisely what they're doing as we speak.
	Really?
	A lot of it's sort of under wraps.
	I mean, people like Intel, for instance, have a huge investment stake in their current infrastructure in terms of traditional What is relevant, though, is the cost of the manufacturer.
	well that and that let me give you a quick insight it's not so much the loss
	of physics and there's a so-called more as a lot of as we're going to be
	doubling computers beat every six months whatever that's not really relevant
	was a little bit and stay good and close to the phone for me okay i'm sorry
	what what what is relevant though is the cost of the manufacturer that is every
	time you push to a new scale of integration and all it the cost of the fab setup keeps going up exponentially and
	so it's really a economic factor rather than a physics factor.
	So, what's being done as we speak?
	Well, once again, biology comes into the picture quite prominently because we can now use Things like viruses to actually move bits of metal around on the surface and essentially grow a circuit as opposed to having to etch one into pieces of silicon.
	To grow a circuit?
	In fact, there's a company called Cambrios.
	They presented at my last conference, and I've known the co-founder, Angie Belcher, for many years.
	And this is exactly what they're doing.
	They're using a biological approach to, in a sense, grow complex circuits.
	But let me give you one other insight, if I may, which might help to get a better sense of It's not how fast the machine runs, it's how much in parallel it can operate.
	Right.
	The real breakthrough.
	Right.
	So, there's a realm of computing called reconfigurable computing, and I won't bore you with a lot of technical stuff, but the basic idea is, think of it like this.
	In a way that memory stores data, a reconfigurable platform can temporarily store function.
	Now, why it's interesting, here's the reason.
	Because, like in a Pentium, you have to hardwire all of the logic into the system.
	It's basically software turned into hardware.
	But if you go into reconfigurable architectures, now all of a sudden you're not confined by the way the systems wire it up.
	And this kind of computing has been around for many years.
	People like Xilinx and Altera and so forth have been manufacturing silicon chips to do this for quite some time.
	The problem, though, is that to make enough gates on a piece of silicon so that you can truly hit this There's a plateau of parallelism that really breaks open this realm of computing.
	It's still been kind of expensive.
	So if you go to places like Hewlett Packard, for instance, where they've been working this very, very hard for a handful of years, they're probably going to be the first company to come out with the kind of nano-approach, if you will, to a reconfigurable architecture that happens to use, by the way, organic molecules as the switches.
	A sea of gates, where you, by a factor of many words, manage to have many more gates sort of compress under the same surface.
	And the reason this is a big deal is because, unlike a pentium or something like it,
	where even a tiny percentage of gate failure means that the whole device is useless.
	Again, this is getting very fuzzy, though.
	In other words, we're beginning to talk about sort of something almost not a machine, something more or at least maybe halfway organic and halfway machine.
	Well, as a matter of fact... Listen here, Charles, that starts to sound like the creation of life, buddy.
	Well, actually, there is an entire genre of science called artificial life.
	I've been a part of this community for many, many years.
	There's actually a conference every year called GECCO, which is the Genetic and Evolutionary Computing Conference, and that's exactly what this is about.
	It's about using reconfigurable platforms to, in a sense, mimic life-like processes.
	And, if I were to go so far as to say, in the near future, when you're going to see neural networks and things like this much more commonplace than they have in the past, the thing that makes that possible is this kind of reconfigurable computing.
	So, yes, you are right.
	The boundary between living and non-living things is becoming ever more diffuse.
	And if I may tap back into the bit just before the break with the neural interface.
	The man with the chip in his hand.
	In fact, that company is called CyberKinetics, and they actually have a website you can go to if you wish.
	But the point I was hoping to make was, it's not just being able to put a chip in the brain.
	The next step is to read the brain's signatures from outside the brain.
	And this has been done for years, actually, using something called a superconductive quantum interference device.
	That sounds like a mouthful, but it's called squid detectors for short.
	The problem with the squids in the past was they had to be cryogenically cooled in liquid helium to make them useful.
	And when Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was testing these ideas, probably the same time the Russians were, you know, you had a device the size of a large trash can filled with liquid helium, you know, with those pilots strapped beneath it so they could read his thoughts.
	Well, technically it sort of worked, but I mean, nobody's going to put that into an aircraft.
	But you had the idea right, that if a pilot could think faster than he could move his hands and feet around, The problem being that the performance of the aircraft physically exceeds the physical ability of the pilot to sustain those kind of g-forces.
	So if they could buy a few milliseconds of extra time, or shorten the time rather, between the response to the perceived threat and response to that sort of thing, then all of a sudden they buy themselves another half a g of force exerted on the pilot.
	No, where nanotechnology comes in.
	Either that or you don't put a pilot in there at all.
	Thank you.
	Well, that's kind of where we're going with this.
	You have somebody on the ground connected to a computer, part of a computer, operating this machine.
	Well, actually, you've read my mind.
	Thank you.
	That's kind of where things are going.
	So the basic idea is this.
	And if you saw the film Brainstorm, there were some technical weaknesses, but the concept was kind of there.
	Imagine nanotechnology now creating a new kind of superconductive material that does not require Have you seen a new movie, Charles, about this wonderful chip that's implanted in some people when they're born?
	And all it does, Charles, is record what they see, virtually records actually their entire life, and then when they die, a sort of a memorial is made of them, using the hopefully Morally higher moments of their life.
	I haven't seen the film, but I can appreciate the concept.
	But let me give you one quick snapshot of the kind of parallel of this.
	I was actually part of something called the Ubiquitous Computing Forum a couple years ago near the Stanford campus.
	They have this event every so often.
	And one of my friends, Jim Herd, who runs what they call the Now Finance Exchange, he was making kind of a joke in a way, but it wasn't that much of a joke.
	He said, well, Charles, at some point, We're going to be able to read people's conscience in real time and tie that to their income stream so that every thought that you make can be referenced to whoever is owed that effort, if you will.
	And that'll become the kind of socioeconomic structure of the future.
	Well, a bunch of people laughed, but some of them weren't laughing because the technology's sort of halfway there.
	That's a little glimpse of that kind of thinking.
	All right, back to the phones.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Is this me?
	That's you.
	Okay, hey, thank you, Art, for letting me come on your show here.
	Charles, I believe you and my brother Mark Lindeman used to work together at Lawrence Livermore, and I got a question for you.
	What about natural harnessing of the Earth and the magnetism of the Earth for free-space transmission of electricity?
	That's for Tesla.
	No, I understand.
	That's for Nikola Tesla.
	I think Tesla was right on the mark, and I think that he was Horribly mistreated.
	His records were seized by the government, and a lot of controversy exists about what he had done or not done.
	There's a huge potential mis- as a kind of a quick snapshot of that idea.
	You recall when the space shuttle had the tether experiment.
	They towed a large line a couple miles long behind the space shuttle, and it collected so much electricity, they were astonished.
	It was way beyond what they expected.
	In fact, the line kind of blew up because it had too much current.
	Mm-hmm.
	They canceled the program.
	Hmm.
	I wonder why.
	I wonder why.
	Yes, I do too.
	Everybody, including myself, sat straight up, eyes wide open when that happened and said, oh my God.
	But on the other side, as you point out, gosh, they cancelled the program!
	They didn't give it another thought!
	Publicly.
	Well, you know, in your own experience with your giant 13-tower array, or however many towers you have there, and you were getting all this voltage that you couldn't understand, I think you tapped into something interesting, and I would just let it hang at that.
	There's a lot to be said for this yet to be publicly made available.
	No doubt.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Hello.
	Good evening.
	Thanks, Mr. Bell, for another really interesting program.
	My question is this.
	At the start of the program, there was a comment about tying this to last week's program.
	Which was dealing with the decline of oil production and the impact on society of not cheap energy.
	And I've not heard any reference to what kind of energy it takes to do this nanotechnology.
	Ah, actually, what a wonderful question.
	Every energy seems to, I mean, even hydrogen, one of the great arguments is it's going to cost a lot of energy to produce these hydrogen fuel cells.
	So what about nanotechnology?
	What kind of energy?
	Sure, that's a great question and I think I might be able to provide an answer.
	The theory is that Unlike traditional manufacturing systems, where you have to do a lot of effort to carve and shape and mold and sort of squeeze into some kind of a usable form, you know, chunks of metal or ceramics or whatever it is, now it takes sort of the other direction.
	You're actually getting molecules to assemble themselves into something hopefully useful.
	So, interestingly enough, the amount of energy it takes to get that kind of a process to work is a tiny fraction of the process that it takes to whittle something down to a smaller size.
	So, I mean, it's a good question, but the answer is, in fact, it's remarkably energy efficient.
	That's why it's so interesting.
	That's why so many people are looking at it as we speak.
	Is it, in itself, a source of energy?
	Not directly, but certainly in terms of being able to harvest energy from otherwise unharvestable circumstances.
	I think that's really where the target goal would eventually go.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Tim from St.
	Louis, Missouri.
	Yes.
	My question is, With the nanotechnology that he's talking about as far as medical use goes.
	Right.
	I'm wondering if sometime down the line whether or not surgeries won't even be possible or even be needed.
	I'm sorry, surgery?
	In other words, could this actually take over, instead of cutting open the body to get some job done, it virtually eliminates the job of the surgeon?
	I think that's where they want to go.
	In other words, if you look at the cost of healthcare, and not to sound too, I don't know, economical or financially oriented, but I mean that's kind of the motivation.
	The theory is that Right now, surgery is kind of a sloppy process.
	And I mean that with great respect to everybody in surgery.
	I just come out of surgery myself, as a matter of fact, a few days ago.
	But it's kind of a sloppy process.
	You have to cut things open and dig around and pull out the bad stuff or whatever it is.
	Sometimes you've got to crack ribs and do serious stuff.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I went to dental surgery where they saw my jaw open for me.
	I know this process.
	So the point is, obviously, could we want to get at the damaged area or the area to be changed through some kind of means that have to do with not cutting the body open but
	simply putting something in the body that can sort of do the repair and then leave again.
	And of course, that would be the ultimate target goal. Now how close are we to this?
	Obviously depends on the kind of surgery and the kind of operation, but certainly people are talking about it.
	A lot of the companies who are kind of migrating this direction, I'm just going to throw a guess out there.
	Maybe 10, 12 years from now that you might see some of these lines begin to appear.
	Let me give you a good one.
	I mentioned cracked ribs.
	To get a bypass, maybe they crack your ribs.
	Oh, I believe you, sure.
	Okay, so a bypass is done because arteries or whatever are plugged up.
	Correct.
	And it would seem to me it would be the ideal job for little nanomachines to go and target and clean out the pipes.
	As a matter of fact, Rutgers University has an animation you can download where they show this exact procedure being done as a sort of a nanobiological procedure.
	Wow.
	And yes, people are talking about, in fact, this is exactly why the FDA is struggling with how to define medicine, because medicine, like I said, will become more of a chemo-mechanical process.
	Now whether it's like little metal machines or little cutters or something, or whether it's more of a Biologically-assisted process.
	That could be a debate, but certainly that's the ultimate goal.
	And clearing a plaque of arteries is considered one of the major, financially, interesting targets of the current genre of farming.
	Oh, it would be worth a lot of money.
	First time caller online, you're on the air with Charles Osmond.
	Good morning.
	Thank you very much for taking my call, Art, and thank you for having this wonderful program.
	My question relates to, has there been any thought given to Utilizing one's own human energy, whether it be electrical or vibrational, to assist with, for example, body temperature regulation in environments in place of consuming fossil fuels?
	Well, I'm not sure I can address that question, but I would like to address sort of a parallel area of interest that I'm personally fascinated by, and that is the use of consciousness as the instrument of influence.
	uh... a little bit are you probably know recently afterwards very sad but she was
	a medical doctor a p h d who and many other like research that phenomenon in a very
	technical kind of issues daughter ruffled arden
	well-known well course the point being that a lot of folks are now beginning to
	unravel connection between when i make all by a physical process
	and perhaps quantum physical process
	do we have the ability to focus our intentionality as a healing
	instrument and the answer is maybe There's a lot of evidence to support this concept.
	So I'm not sure I want to go as far as saying that we need to not use heat because we can change our own body temperature.
	I'm not sure I want to go there.
	Well, one of her questions, if I heard it correctly, was could we use, for example, we know that there are very tiny electrical impulses in the body.
	Absolutely.
	Generated and passed on in various ways, nerves and the rest of it to the brain.
	Absolutely.
	Could some of that energy be used to power Nanotechnological machines?
	Well, in a sense, yes, because even though the amount of current involved is very tiny, if you're working at the nanoscale, the amount of current required is also very tiny.
	Very tiny, yes.
	And that's in fact the motivation to go in that direction in the first place.
	I think that was the essence of the question.
	Okay, sure.
	So that would be a yes?
	Yeah, that would be a yes, sir.
	Okay.
	Wildcord Line, you're on the air with Charles Ostman.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	Oh, hi.
	How are you doing?
	Okay, sir.
	You're on the air.
	Well, Art, I'd like to say it is a true privilege to be able to talk to you.
	Thank you.
	Um, I'd like to start by saying, um, new spy equipment.
	I heard a show that, uh, George did a long, uh, actually about a month ago.
	Okay.
	And over-the-counter spy equipment is very effective and very advanced.
	And I was wondering how that might affect this kind of thing.
	But not only that, I mean, I'd like to, I like to reference, um, Michael Crichton again by saying sometimes we're so enamored by what we can accomplish and we just don't think about whether we should or not.
	Oh, well, bingo!
	Well, and by that I mean by hackers and by, not only by hackers and how that might be involved, because, but also by nature, be it massive power storms and referencing your show on climate change and all that, and if magnetism might have a part to play in that.
	Alright, well, we're all over the place.
	Let's go back to where you began.
	Could we get something from nanotechnology that would be I don't know, like a... I don't know, a house fly.
	Something as small as a house fly.
	Well, actually, I'm not making this up.
	I swear this is true.
	There actually is a product called RoboFly.
	I'm not kidding.
	RoboFly.
	Correct.
	Well, I'm now stepping into some grey zones.
	I probably should... Oh, no.
	Go right ahead.
	Well, okay.
	This is what's in publish.
	I'll just put it that way.
	Um, the Department of the Army in particular was very interested in mimicking biological behavior in creating kind of like artificial bugs, you know, flying things.
	And their earlier versions were like a large dragonfly, so they could fly around, it would have sensors, it would pick up things like biological things, for instance, but also have other kinds of detectors.
	And here at UC Berkeley, there was the RoboFly project, sort of the smaller version of it.
	Now, it got taken away from Southern California, and I won't necessarily go into where it's gone to, but... It got taken away!
	Well, but, that's the whole point.
	They're actually working on a fly, literally speaking.
	So, yes, you're right.
	They've given it a couple of years, and the fly you see buzzing around may or may not be an organic fly.
	I'll just leave it at that.
	Alright, plus the fact that, um, what if, um, what if the little machine bug was actually a bee and had a sting?
	A really good sting.
	A sting that actually was fatal.
	Well, yes, this could be one of the uses.
	I mean, the version I solved, put it that way, was meant as a sensory system.
	But who's to say it couldn't be used as an offensive system of law?
	Yeah, who's to say?
	Enough like that and you truly would have the sounds of silence.
	We'll be back in a moment.
	In the middle of the night, in the darkness, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Charles Osman is here and we're talking about nanotechnology.
	He's here to talk about nanotechnology.
	This is Charles.
	Charles.
	♪ At the bottom ♪ Respectable, oh, presentable, a natural one
	Oh, check, check, check it, yeah It's a night when all the world is deep
	And the West can run so deep For such a simple fact
	Oh, please, please, please, tell me what you love me I know it sounds absurd
	But, please, tell me who I am To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area codes
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
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	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	And Charles Osman.
	We're talking about nanotechnology, the pluses and minuses, and there's plenty of both, and they're happening Right now.
	And I wonder if you all get the same sense I do, as we talk about this with Charles,
	that there's an awful lot he knows, and there's an awful lot he, I think, suspects that he
	doesn't talk about.
	Back now to the nano world with Charles Osman, my guest.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Charles, are you there?
	I am certainly here.
	Good.
	We've certainly covered an awful lot of ground this morning, haven't we?
	Is there anything, before I go back to the phones, that we have not covered that we should have?
	Well, maybe not exactly, but the ad you just had on talking about the LED light bulbs, that's a perfect example of how we can improve energy consumption profile, because the next generation of LEDs will be, in a sense, nano-enabled.
	Well, they're astounding.
	I mean, LEDs have come, oh my God, they have come so far in our lifetime, and now they have these versions, as were advertised, that plug into a 110 volt socket, and the amount of current you use is almost, you almost can't calculate it.
	It's a tiny fraction, and that's exactly right.
	And now let's take it a step further.
	Let's say we had the next sort of nano-enabled version of LEDs, which is really right around the corner.
	Right.
	And even 10% of the population using those bulbs would dramatically, and I mean really dramatically, change our entire energy consumption profile.
	It's true.
	From a grid standpoint, yeah.
	All right.
	Back to the phones.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Morning.
	I'm on the air.
	You are?
	Okay.
	My name is Burke Bronson, and I'm currently an undergraduate.
	Okay.
	First of all, you're not allowed to use last names on the air.
	Oh, I do apologize.
	So I have to take that out.
	Let us begin again.
	Your first name is?
	My name is Burke.
	And you're a undergraduate student where?
	At the University of Alabama.
	Excellent, okay.
	I'm currently studying chemistry and biology and I plan to enter medical school in 2006 but in addition to studying for medical school I want to conduct research one day as well.
	I am currently conducting research in nanoscience and nanotechnology and it's possible application into biological entities as an undergraduate student and I just thought it might be interesting to get Mr. Ossman's reaction to the fact that, you know, even people as young and inexperienced as undergraduate students are working in this field and working to become experts in this area that y'all have been discussing all night.
	Oh, absolutely!
	In fact, the NNI, the National Mountain Altitude Initiative, which in a very tiny way I sort of participated in for the Global Futures, submitted some of the policy statements This is exactly where they're going.
	They want to, in a very progressive and positive way, influence as many of the major schools as possible to include this in their curriculum.
	This is absolutely a government directive and big universities are getting government support to make this possible.
	Well, I see it from another angle.
	In other words, students working on this in universities, gosh, I remember an old TV show where a ninth grader built a perfect atomic bomb, minus the actual plutonium that would have to be in there.
	Otherwise, perfect.
	And the comment at the time, kind of comical, was, you know, think what seniors can do.
	Well, actually, an atomic bomb is actually a fairly simple thing to make.
	It's just the parts are hard to get, but the concept's very simple.
	And, again, this goes back to the very beginning of the show.
	I am not trying to, in a Pollyannaish way, say, oh, there's nothing terrible with all this.
	I'm just saying that we're here, just like you so correctly point out.
	So, what do we do?
	As a species, as a sort of anthropological system, do we decide to pretend it's not there?
	That's not going to work, because the rest of the world's going to go ahead anyway.
	Right.
	So, let's try to do the best we can to understand what this is.
	Apply it in a good way, and let me offer one little caveat, since it's great that a student would call.
	Just think of this for a moment.
	Right now, we're in Iraq in a war, basically, for oil.
	We sort of know that.
	We're probably going to get into other wars in the future, basically competing over resources.
	Wait a minute.
	It's not oil.
	It was weapons of mass destruction.
	Well, okay.
	We all know it was weapons of mass destruction.
	Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
	Okay, fine.
	But the point is, What if suddenly, or over a handful of years, we could alleviate much of the problems that are... I mean, if we think we're in trouble now, wait until China really gets online.
	I know what happened to those weapons!
	Selective disassembly!
	Yeah, well, there we go.
	But the point being, and I'm just trying to hopefully point the direction here, that if we could use natural energy to sort of alleviate a lot of the stress that we are now encountering because of access to energy and also things like Food and water access and climate and a whole variety of things, which I think could have at least the possibility of being affected in a positive way, then the need for things like aggressive warfare-orientated policies would not be so much prevalent.
	That's just a guess, but it's a one to consider.
	All right.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Hi.
	Good morning, this is Joe in Michigan.
	Basically, I want to shoot out two questions and then catch the answer off the air.
	Basically, it sounds to me like maybe the T-1000 from Terminator 2 would be possible, and also perhaps even a... He's talking about bulletproof suits.
	How about an armored suit that gives you super strength, flying the whole nine yards straight out of the comic books?
	How far off is that?
	All right, good.
	Oh, well, actually, going back to the Super Soldier project at MIT, the whole idea of smart exoskeletons isn't really on the drawing board.
	That is one of the things they're looking at.
	I don't know about flying, necessarily, but certainly one that would be ultra-tough, would enhance human strength, would be bio- and chemical-weapon-resistant.
	You know, that is a genre thing.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	That's kind of where things are going.
	You know, how far this gets into the area of, like, the Terminator Cyborg stuff.
	I suppose in the marine outer frontier, where humans are seen as ever less important in the role of warfare and machines replace them, you know what I mean?
	Yeah, there is a logical path towards that.
	I'm not sure I'm even able to comment on how far it would go or not go, but it's within their own possibility.
	I won't say it's not.
	All right, good enough.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Good morning.
	Yeah, this is Ed from St.
	Louis.
	Hey Ed!
	And I was going to ask Charles, is this photovoltaic paint actually available now and who would we contact?
	Is there a website?
	I'll go for that.
	I'd like to know too.
	Well, I don't know about the paint specifically because I haven't interacted with the company that produces it, but I have interacted with companies who are producing the printed foils or the laminates that are organic material-based
	solventics and they're available now and they're available now and nano solar is
	one of the companies in existence now I know right but but as far as being a concern sir I'm
	pretty sure it's available now I'm sorry I don't have the information I don't
	have the name of the company if I were you I'd go to Google put in nano paint
	and I'll bet you get some returns yeah alright thank you y'all good luck
	I'm interested as well was to the Rockies you're on the air with Charles
	Osman good morning hello hello
	Hello? Yes? Hi.
	Hi, this is Ben Call from St.
	George, Utah.
	OK.
	I just had a couple of questions.
	I'll listen off here.
	All right.
	I was just wondering if there was any possibility that nanotechnology could be used to create some kind of a container for nuclear waste.
	Like a seamless, non-porous.
	Right.
	A container for nuclear waste.
	That's a very good question.
	Your second one?
	Well, if there was any way to create some kind of a Okay, well we kind of covered that one already.
	to gas, I guess, to replace oil.
	OK, well, we kind of covered that one already.
	You said it's not so necessarily directly able to produce a consumable energy matter.
	But with reference to the first question, now there's a good one.
	Well, actually, I have sort of a quasi-answer, and I'll go as follows.
	Back in the mid-70s, when Carl Gustaf actually came to, he's the king of Sweden, he actually came to Lawrence Laboratory and said, whatever it costs, I'll spend the money, but I want you guys to invent a solution for this.
	Because they were concerned even then.
	And they were burying their nuclear waste in iron mines at the time.
	We said the best solution we have to date was borosilicate glass, and making little sort of glass pellets, and they would encapsulize bits and pieces of spent fuel rods, and then put those inside of steel drums.
	But even with the borosilicate glass, it still has a big, you know, it degrades over time, and so we were concerned about, could we invent a better material?
	Well, theoretically, I think that would be a direction to go in.
	I don't know of any projects where that's actually being done, but I think the theory is a worthy consideration, sure.
	Okay, so nanotechnology, that does make sense.
	I mean, make it stronger, harder, longer lasting, self-repairing container.
	One where we could be certain that a woman in high heels couldn't walk up and kick it and have a nuclear spill.
	Hopefully not, but yes, the whole idea of having a material that would hold up under the bombardment of nuclear fission over time, that's exactly what you're looking for.
	Because I know they've dumped these containers out the back of trucks, they've had train collisions, but they have not yet encountered an angry woman in high heels.
	Yes, I'd like to ask about using nanotechnology to make billions of diodes in consistent alignment parallel, which would rectify Johnson noise, the thermal radio static.
	Turn background ambient uniform heat into electricity.
	I think it's a wonderful idea.
	I think I know who you are.
	There's a company I tried to reach, and the website was very limited, and I won't mention it on the air, but I know who this is, I think.
	There are a number of people, and I've heard this over the years, who have talked about back-to-back diodes.
	Yes, and nanodiodes would do this.
	Nanodiodes would do that.
	And in fact, if this is the person who I think it is, I would like to invite them to present at our next conference, because that's exactly the kind of stuff we're looking for.
	Alright, listen, while we're at it, why don't you give out a way for people to contact you?
	I'll give out my email and they'll get fresh, but that's okay, I don't mind at all.
	Alright.
	It's Charles000 at AOL.com.
	Charles triple zero at AOL.com.
	AOL.com.
	And if this is the Nanodiode Array person who has a small company, and I think I saw some information earlier and wants to present at our conference, police and information, we'll be happy to talk with you.
	I believe it may be.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Hello.
	Are you talking to me, sir?
	I'm talking to you.
	Okay.
	I was the one, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to put my brother's name out there.
	I brought up the Nikola Tesla thing.
	I apologize.
	All right.
	Well, you're only allowed on the air one time per night, so I'm sorry.
	You're on the air, wildcard line, with Charles Osman.
	Hi.
	How are you doing?
	I'm Brian in Miami.
	Yes.
	I was wondering, um, well, geez, nature kind of finds its way all the time, so I was kind of wondering if even the most minute polar shift or an incredible, like, climactical, electrical storm might have an effect on even just one of the... On what?
	Have an effect on what?
	On one of these little nanobytes, because I understand that it's going to take millions to Basically do what everyone else is going to do, and they're always going to be grouped.
	So even if one has a flaw, what's going to happen with the rest of them?
	Well, let me see if I can try a crypt.
	Now technology is not about little machines.
	Little machines are like one very small, sorry for the choice of words, very narrow aspect of a much wider technical domain of what falls into the category of sort of nanosciences.
	So I think a lot of people have read the book Prey, and kind of think it's a bunch of nanotraining around causing harm.
	It's not that at all.
	Yes, there will be, I think, a segment of the nanoresearch community who will be looking into controllable nanodevices to manufacture certain kinds of materials and that sort of thing.
	But this is actually a very small minority of the entire genre of applied nanotechnology.
	In fact, I'm glad to call her called because I think this is a concern a lot of people have.
	The vast majority of nanotechnology where the companies and projects have nothing to do at all with nanites or anything like this at all.
	It's just a very small segment of the larger population.
	How much chance is there, Charles, that even unintentionally, something's going to get out of control?
	Yeah, no, I understand.
	And as I was saying earlier, my biggest fear would be in this sort of combined arena of either proteomic targeting and or some kind of electro-disassembly experiment that wasn't meant to get out, but somehow it does.
	Or get smuggled out or something.
	That, in my mind, would be the worst of all possibilities.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Osmond.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Is this me?
	Well, it sounds like you.
	Okay, here I go.
	My name is Charles Osmond from Miami 6th.
	Yes.
	These nano things, they can take a molecule apart?
	In some cases, yes.
	In fact, if you look at biology, that's what biology does all the time, and all we're trying to do is, in a sense, replicate a small portion of that process.
	Well, what I'm thinking is maybe they could get all this radioactive material and change it into platinum and gold.
	I have a story for you, and you'll appreciate this.
	In 1976, at Lawrence Laboratory, we changed lead into gold.
	I'm not making this up, this really happened.
	However, there's a small caveat.
	In order to do this, we had to accelerate, well, it's a long story, but we had to use A combination of a linear accelerator and a cyclotron to pre-accelerate particles so they can sort of smash open the nuclei of the lead particles, or lead atoms, to make them into gold.
	The problem with that process is that the energy expended was about $30,000 per gram, roughly there.
	However, however, if one went to a superconductive acceleration platform, which is very much in the possibility of today's world, there could come a time where you really could reconstruct elements to suit a desired goal.
	And, certainly, not to mention much gold.
	That's just sort of a classified supplement.
	Other materials, which are much rarer, specialized metals that are used for all kinds of alloys and so forth, excuse me, could there be a way, I mean, right now, our only choice is the big holes in the ground that smell metal, and that's kind of a damaging process, and it's also very limited.
	If you think oil is a problem, wait until we run out of other, more precious metals, like vanadium or cobalt, etc., which is very important for a number of reasons.
	So, could we Charles, let me ask you kind of an overall question, and I was sort of joking at the bottom of the hour, but it's really not a joke.
	I want an absolute honest guess here.
	the energy cost down. That's exactly right. Charles, let me ask you kind of an overall
	question and I was sort of joking at the bottom of the hour but it's really not a joke. I
	want an absolute honest guess here. Across the private sector and across the government
	sector, what percentage of nanotechnology development is public information versus secret
	information?
	and I'll see you next time.
	Boy, that's a tough question.
	I'm trying to give you an honest answer.
	I'm not sure I have one exactly, but I would say... A guess.
	That's what I'm asking.
	A guess.
	Probably half and half, roughly.
	Half and half?
	Yeah, I would say roughly.
	That's very generous, actually.
	That's just my guess.
	That's just a guess.
	Hmm.
	All right.
	International Line, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yeah, this is Ed from Modesto, California.
	Oh, Ed, I'm sorry.
	You're on the wrong line, bud.
	This is our international line.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Charles Osman.
	Hi.
	Well, hi, Charles.
	I had a quick question.
	Are CO2 scrubbers being created with nanotechnology since we're going to double the number of coal-fired plants in the next 10 years?
	Whether we like it or not, I guess, huh?
	Well, actually, there's something to be said for this.
	A couple of quick thoughts.
	CO2 scrubbing is one of many different pathways to figure out a better way to clean out the harmful residue of coal burning.
	Another interesting way to use coal, and where nanotechnology comes in really well, as a matter of fact, is in making nanoparticles of coal to make new kinds of cleaner-burning fuels.
	There's actually a program going on to create sort of coal-generated diesel fuel, which is very interesting indeed.
	And there's a much larger arena of products, actually one in China, which I'm quite familiar with, which is actually trying to perfect a way to grind coal into very perfectly sized nanogranules so that the coal burns extremely cleanly and becomes a much more usable fuel as opposed to how it is now.
	Charles, we're running out of time, but I've got one final question.
	Is there any possible dreamed-of application for nanotechnology in climate modification?
	Wow, well, I would think that on the sort of dark side, if you want to call it that, the whole HAARP idea, if we could, I want to say this carefully, if one could dramatically change the power density of these transmitters, oh, all kinds of things could happen.
	And that could be a good or a bad thing.
	Are you admitting that you understand that HAARP is being used for climate monitoring?
	Is that what I just heard?
	I'll offer it a very qualified guess.
	I'll just put it that way.
	And I mean, HAARP is not the only machine.
	There's a number of HAARPs out there in the world.
	The fact that the Russians wanted to offer as a commercial service the business of changing the storm paths of typhoons, that kind of thing, Kind of suggest where that's going.
	I'm all aware.
	Buddy, we're all done.
	Again, your email address is?
	Charles000 at AOL.com.
	Have a great night, Buddy.
	Talk to you next time.
	Thanks so much.
	It's been an incredible weekend.
	A wonderful weekend.
	Thank you all.
	Have a great week.
	From the high desert, good night.
	Midnight in the desert.
	shooting stars across the sky This magical journey
	will take us on a ride Filled with the longing
	searching for the truth Will we make it till tomorrow?
	Will the sun shine on you?

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