Art Bell and John Lash explore 2005’s societal "death wish" trends, linking environmental collapse—like Kilimanjaro’s first snow-free era in 11,000 years—to leadership failures prioritizing apocalyptic beliefs over science. Lash, a Gnostic scholar, reveals Archons—reptilian and silicon-mercury-based "embryotype" entities—as predatory cosmic beings, not evil but delusional, feeding on human fear via psychological simulations like abductions. Gnostic texts (e.g., Nag Hammadi’s First Apocalypse of James, discovered 1945) describe their failed attempts to hybridize with humans, contrasting with flawed Christian narratives of divine Redeemers. Lash warns that disconnection from Earth’s wisdom—whether through dogma or technology—risks catastrophic consequences, while his upcoming book The Gnostic Legacy (October release) deepens this ancient yet urgent framework for understanding UFO phenomena and planetary consciousness. [Automatically generated summary]
It is my honor and privilege to be escorting you through the weekend version of the program.
In a moment, we'll see what's the latest with, and there's a lot with Whitley's treatment.
Surprise guests here in the first hour for you.
We'll be discussing things like the so-called rapture.
That alone will get the emails you watch.
And Whitley wrote an amazing journal article, I thought, Predictions 2005, the year of the death wish.
That's exactly right.
I remember when I did my predictions at the beginning of the year, it was like a death wish.
There's no question about it.
They were pretty negative predictions as they go.
In fact, by far, the most negative year we've ever had.
We'll talk.
Maybe there's a reason for that.
Maybe the collective out there understands something that some individuals don't.
Listen, the webcam photograph that I've got up, I think, is pretty cool.
Yesterday, Ramona and myself were in the house, and a thunder began in the sky.
You could hear wop, wop, wop, wop.
And here came this.
For once, for once, I had the idea soon enough to run and get my digital camera.
And then I ran outside.
Running outside first when something's around is not good because then you have to run back in, get the camera, run back out, and by then it's too late.
This time, I got the camera first.
And I went outside, and here is this thundering black helicopter just ripping right over the house.
So I pointed up and went click.
And there you have it.
As a matter of fact, the digital camera was good enough to completely stop the rotors.
You know, they're really going around at a pretty good speed, but the digital camera stopped them cold.
And there is the black helicopter that buzzed our house yesterday morning.
And I thought you might enjoy seeing that.
And believe me, when they're that close, that low, and they're thundering over your house, things begin shaking on the shelf.
So, you know, there's something going on out here.
One very black helicopter immediately above my house.
All right, coming up in a moment, we will venture forth with Whitley Strieber, some rough stuff ahead, I guarantee you.
The End As you know, I'm a pretty keen observer of the pace of events.
That's why the book, The Quickening, and then, of course, with Whitley, the Global Coming Global Superstorm, I think I'm a keen observer of events anyway.
And they certainly seem to be accelerating.
Let me put it that way.
Here is Whitley Streeber, who obviously agrees with me, or I agree with him.
I don't know what.
But he wrote this journal which really caught my attention.
And that gets to, immediately, in my mind, to the death wish.
And in the journal entry on my website, which is unknowncountry.com, if there's anyone who doesn't know that, the death wish is when there have been experiments, quite a number of them, where rats have been confined in a very, very small space, lots and lots of rats.
And they go through a series of events in their little world that are very much like the 20th century and like our society is now.
Because this planet is badly overpopulated and we feel it deep down inside ourselves.
It depends on the colony and the particular study and the way it was done and the degree to which the overpopulation was allowed to continue, just how badly they die back.
They also become impotent.
They become sexually interested in their own sex.
A lot of things happen to them as they get more and more trapped in this kind of a situation.
And we need to think about this because one of the things that is happening to us now is a lot of people are getting what is essentially a death wish.
I refer, of course, to the rapture.
The idea that they would be raptured away, as I say in my journal, by a heartless, mythical Jesus that self-deluded people have conjured out of their own ignorance and greed.
And that's what it is.
It is self-delusion.
It stems from, the rapture stems from the work of two people, John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Schofield, who was a disciple of his, who...
Well, in the late 19th century.
Darby died in 1882, and by the time Schofield died in 1921, the idea was contained and integrated into the Schofield Bible, which and the specific biblical interpretation is called dispensationalism.
And it mostly revolves around a statement in Thessalonians, 1 Thessalonians 4, which is, For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we shall always be with the Lord.
This caught up together with them in the clouds is the rapture.
Because that means any natural thing that comes along, like the bird flu, for example, which has, what, about a 75% mortality rate, they would feel what?
That it would be wrong to try and stop it because it might be part of this rapture?
And, you know, I thought to myself when I was reading some of this stuff that essentially we should push aside the Constitution and replace it with biblical law.
Not unlike the Taliban.
But the problem is, if you look at, well, like, for example, one of the most, they say all of the founding fathers were interested in Christianity.
And it's true.
A lot of them were.
I mean, I would accept Benjamin Franklin.
He certainly wasn't.
But not Thomas Jefferson.
He did a translation of the New Testament called the Jefferson Bible.
But the Jefferson Bible is his idea of what parts of the Gospels were really said by Christ.
He, in effect, edited the Gospels to his belief of the actual words of Christ and the actual life of Christ.
It does not contain a word about the resurrection.
This was a man who was a very, very unique, advanced thinker in terms of his Christianity.
He did not believe that Christ rose from the dead.
And you can't point to a founding father who was more interested in Christianity.
So these movements, dispensationalism, the rapturist movement, all of these extreme Christian Reconstruction movements that are the Christian Reconstructionists are responsible for the fights about putting up the Ten Commandments in public places.
And of course, a lot of people go along with this without realizing quite what is going on or quite who is really behind it and what they ultimately want to do because in and of itself it seems like a good idea.
I mean I have to admit, I try to follow the Ten Commandments and I see no reason why they shouldn't be up in public places.
But when I see who's behind it, I get scared.
And, you know, we live, we're like, there's a sort of Damocles hanging over our heads in this world.
For example, if a great terrorist act were to suddenly destroy the government of the United States, which is something so serious and so of such concern, the U.S. Congress has recently been dealing with institution survival issues and trying to take through a bill that will guide the way to the survival of institutions should that happen.
Well, Whitley, can you give us some idea of how pervasive you think these kind of views are in U.S. government now and in the population in general now?
It's something lower than the media would have you believe it's like 25% of the population.
It's probably in the 3 to 4 million range for people who are actively willing to say, yes, I would like to see the world destroyed in order to have a rapture.
A lot more people will say, well, oh, I don't care about that global warming and stuff.
People call me and they tell me on the air, they tell me that, that all of this, well, yes, is happening, but it's headed towards something that's going to be wonderful.
I mean, since when would the same Jesus Christ who died on the cross come back and act in the way he's supposed to, that the rapturists say he is going to act by lifting up one little group and throwing all of the rest in some sort of sulphurous horror where the lifted group apparently get pleasure from watching their suffering.
For what we explained, folks, that people would just let things happen, whether they're environmental or it would be some new disease or it would be God knows what.
We always have something, it seems like, that they would do nothing to prevent what they consider, you know, something from God that's going to end it all and send them to paradise.
Well, the bottom line is that when we wrote Superstorm and then for me, the quickening before that, I imagined things progressing, you know, at a certain somewhat terrifying but predictable pace that one who's 50 or 60 now could be fairly comfortable with.
Well, like, for example, last week it was discovered that Mount Kilimanjaro is going to have a snowless peak this year, for the first time in 11,000 years.
It had been predicted by scientists, but for 15 years from now, not this year.
But that's not the only indicator of its sort, is it?
I mean, the North Pole, the South Pole, all the changes going on, they seem to be occurring faster than even the most alarmist scientists said they would occur or might occur.
And we have, for example, one of the problems that we're going to be facing that we really didn't fully understand when we wrote Superstorm.
I mean, nobody did.
It's relatively recent science.
After I wrote my journal entry, I got a letter from an Arctic scientist saying, I'm amazed that you even know about this because I've just seen it in people's handwritten notes so far.
We haven't even really gotten to do the papers about it, but I have heard about it.
And that is that as the Arctic permafrost melts, it releases methane into the atmosphere.
And there's methane stored, so-called frozen methane, under the ocean.
And if the water gets too warm, that methane will rise.
And nobody's really sure where the trigger point is there, but there are places in this world that are so extraordinarily endangered by this.
If the methane should become gaseous, it's on a shelf off the coast of Norway in the North Sea, it will create a tsunami that will sweep across all of the eastern half of England.
It absorbs it and is held in soils, and then it can be, and then when the soils are heated, it's released.
And this has happened before.
It happened, I think, 7,000 years ago.
There was a big methane spike.
And 15,000 years ago, a methane spike ended the last ice age.
The temperature at the Arctic, at the North Pole at one point, went up to 85 degrees.
And one fine day, all hell broke loose.
This gigantic storm occurred, and the world was plunged back into ice age-like conditions for about a thousand years, but not enough to make a permanent ice age.
And it transforms what I believe to be the most ethical and the most morally perfect document that has ever come to lie in the hands of man, which is the four Gospels.
We have this beautiful path, good news laid out for us in the four Gospels.
But it's easy to get lost in this path.
You know, the Pharisees play such a huge role in the Gospels.
And goodness me, it's hard to go into a church these days and not see that it's full of Pharisees.
And people better look at themselves because it's all too easy to become a Pharisee and to begin to live by the holier than thou delusions of the proud.
Okay, so, but, you know, the fact that I'm getting a lot of this sort of thing in response to what we're discussing tonight, which really we do consider extremism, obviously.
There are quite a number of people who don't consider it extremist, Whitley.
And the question is how big their number are and whether they really will go and try to enhance the speed of the process for God.
I don't know where the president stands on the rapture.
I know he's supposedly now a fundamentalist Christian, but my knowledge of his family goes back a long time.
My dad, well, it just goes back a long time, let me put it that way.
And he certainly was no, he was a hell-raising young man.
That I do know.
I guess he found religion, which is fine.
I respect that.
It's a wonderful thing.
Whether he found has gone so far as to believe in the rapture to the extent that he might try to derail efforts on this part of this planet of us to save ourselves, I don't know.
I don't have any personal belief that he's like that.
And if he believed something like that and had any honor, he would also say it publicly.
But I do think that there are a lot of people in the administration, not necessarily at high places in the administration, but who do believe it and who do act on it and who do live by it.
And whose beliefs color the way policy is structured and the way it's expressed, which is one of the reasons that despite everything, despite the fact that At a very important Christian conference last week,
there was an effort made to say, to declare that evangelical Christians respect that God gave us the stewardship of the earth, not to simply do with it what we will, but to keep it on behalf of its Creator.
I've got to be absolutely honest with you, and I don't know if it fits in or not, but I'm not convinced that even if we took our best shot at in some way stopping what otherwise seems like it's going to occur, that we could have any effect at all.
What I think is this, and this gets back to something I said I was going to discuss a little earlier, which is this phenomenal discovery made by these statisticians that there are regular extinctions on this planet every 62 million years.
It started, just as we said in Superstorm, approximately 3 million years ago when biodiversity began to decline.
It began to decline because Central America rose up out of the ocean, interrupted the trans-tropical current, it was called, and destabilized the Earth's climate, causing this fluctuating back and forth between ice ages and interglacials.
And this has caused the number of different animals and plants on the Earth to start declining.
So we've been in one of these extinction events for 2.8 million years.
Statistically, each one lasts about 3 million years and then has a climax during which 80 to 90 percent of all species are destroyed.
And we're in the beginning of the climax now, and we're part of it.
Now, however, there's something else in here that wasn't ever there in any of these previous extinction events, and that's us and the gift God gave us, which is our minds, to use to make something else happen in this world that doesn't involve us all dying.
And I think we can do this.
There's no question about the fact that we're going to go through this cycle in some way again.
It's going to get hotter, and then there's going to be another ice age.
We can't stop that.
But we may be able to plan for it and tailor it in such a way that we make it through.
That's the only thing I've ever been able to come up with, that we ought to look and be aware of what's happening, begin growing things where they're going to be, where they're going to grow, and not die, preventing starvation worldwide and that sort of thing.
Well, there's the Kyoto Protocol, which is an attempt to do something, but it's a very iffy one because the fact of the matter is that young trees, it's a big tree planting program, basically, which is wonderful.
But young trees give off carbon dioxide before they start absorbing it.
So there's going to be a period of time when the Kyoto Protocol is going to be adding to the problem, not ameliorating it.
It's quite a different situation for the United States than it is for other countries that have signed it because of the but there is something else.
Look at the DuPont Company, which is a big enterprise that has done absolute wonders with its own emissions, reducing its own emissions.
And do you know that emissions control is a major profit center for DuPont?
They're making money reducing emissions.
And that is like you could never get the board of directors of Exxon to even entertain that as a possibility.
But it is possible, even for oil companies.
Phillips is showing that they can do it.
It is definitely possible.
Creative science in these companies can work wonders, but it takes a will and it takes a desire, and above all, it takes leadership.
And for example, on Unknown Country, on the Quick Watch, Superstorm Quick Watch page, if you just scroll down the page, you find the Canadian Prime Minister's challenge of what individuals can do to reduce their carbon output.
And it's not hard.
It's just a few little things.
But you can reduce your carbon output by tons a year.
It's not difficult.
One of the reasons this whole death wish thing is going on is because of the lack of leadership.
People think we're helpless, and it's all going to happen anyway, and there's no way to stop it.
Ultimately, we are part of a larger natural cycle.
And yes, it is, things are going to happen, but it does not have to destroy us.
We can actually use it.
my guess would be that God being God and man being man, it'll turn out that if we put our minds to this, the changing cycle will turn out to be able to make life better.
I think ultimately in 5,000 years, this planet is going to be in one of two states.
It's either going to be in an ice age, or it's going to be in a runaway global warming condition where what happened basically was that the ice age cycle was defeated and a lot of gases kind of locked into the atmosphere and it began to trap heat and it overheated, in which case it'll be sterile.
And if that's the case, well, this particular phase of life has ended, and eventually the planet, the atmosphere will get less locked in like that, and less the heat will gradually radiate out.
There will be solar changes, and over millions of years, it'll freshen up again, but without us.
Well, in behalf of those who are here right now and listening to this broadcast, I think the question is, will this continue at some understandable rate of change or decline, if you want to look at it that way from a human point of view?
Or will there come a moment where, like a light switch is thrown, something truly awful is going to happen, and will that occur during our lifetimes?
That would be the answer that most people would be searching for.
And now, as far as these sudden breaks are concerned, things like this, if methane starts outgassing from the seafloor, well, we're in trouble.
And there's unfortunately no way to turn it around.
We won't be able to stop it if it starts.
However, the upside of this is the discovery of all of these hydrates of methane down there mean that there's a gigantic energy reservoir that can be safely capped.
In other words, this methane would be a wonderful fuel if we can start to use it.
And give you an idea of how much is down there.
There are 10,000 gigatons of it on the sea floor.
In the air, all of the carbon in the air consists of 700 gigatons, and that's it.
If it releases in this structure off of Norway, it's going to be the most devastating catastrophe in history.
If it releases in the Gulf of Mexico, which is actually a more probable one because of the fact that the Gulf is a lot warmer than the North Sea, then what you're going to see is millions of tons of methane bubbling up to the surface, and conceivably there are going to be methane sinks developing that will suffocate people when the air stops extremely dangerous.
It's also flammable, incidentally, which wouldn't help any.
But it would be an extraordinary and dangerous situation, and the methane would be rising into the atmosphere.
People just suddenly keeled over because they were suffocated.
That would be a possibility.
Another possibility is that onshore winds and suddenly people at the beach would start keeling over because they couldn't breathe anymore.
It's odorless, by the way.
So, you know, it would be...
And what's interesting to me is if it happens during the time when people who are in power now are running the thing, how are they going to explain themselves?
You know, because it's really their fault that we haven't done more to prevent this kind of thing.
That's a little something to think about in the first hour, huh?
Coming up in the next hour from a country unknown, because I don't know this country code, is a gentleman named John Lash from the high desert.
Middle of the night, which is just where we belong.
I'm Art Bell.
unidentified
They say that
life is a circle A man in the wind But I found it Gonna move in a straight line Keeping my feet Turn me on the ground I hit up I got to go down I
got words in my head So I say them Don't let life Get me down Catch a hold of my blues And just play them I got this again, baby I got the music in me I got the music in me Yeah!
I got the music in me I got the music in me I got the music in me Talk with Art Bell.
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John Lash, and I didn't know where that country code was.
Now I do.
He is in Belgium.
All the way to Belgium, we're about to go.
Author and teacher John Lash is one of the foremost exponents of the power of myth.
Now listen carefully to direct and shape an individual's life as well as history itself.
John is a lifelong student of world mythology, Tantra, Buddhism, Gnosticism, the pre-Christian mysteries, alchemy, astrology, and naked eye astronomy.
He's traveled widely throughout the world and has lived in Japan, the U.K., Greece, France, Spain, and obviously now Belgium.
John's published works include The Seeker's Handbook, The Complete Guide to Spiritual Pathfinding, Twins and the Double, The Hero, Manhood and Power, and Quest for the Zodiac.
John is co-founder and principal author of Metahistory.org, sponsored by the Marion Institute.
In addition, John founded the Institute for Creative Mythology in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
And now, after saying all of that, I believe that what we're going to be finding out about tonight is what very ancient pagans knew about aliens.
I've currently putting together a book called The Gnostic Legacy, in which I'm going to summarize some of the discoveries I've made regarding what these pagans knew.
And as in any discussion of UFOs, the question of evidence arises.
And it also comes down to the discussion of what I would call the hardware and the software.
Well, yeah, this would be in the times at least 2,000 years ago.
And going back before that, well, it's hard to say, but for a very, very long time, I'm convinced that these pagan seers, as you might call them, seers, initiates, shamans Is what actually they were, had a very sophisticated level of awareness.
They had developed psychic faculties of various kinds, and they were able to practice remote viewing, for instance.
And we know today that there's a certain amount of UFO literature that is based on remote viewing of aliens.
And there's a library not far from where I am right now that is a world-class library that has facsimiles of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Gnostic library, and things of that sort.
Well, what I've discovered mainly, Art, is that there was a special group of these pagans who were called Gnostics.
And they seem to have had the special knowledge regarding these aliens.
They seem to have, in a sense, been dedicated to the particular task of investigating what alien intrusion is and how it affects us and where those beings originate.
And so I have been concentrating for my textual sources, for the text evidence, on the writings of these Gnostics, which, as you probably know, were discovered in December 1945 in Egypt.
In fact, it matches some of the latest and most fascinating discoveries of modern science regarding, for instance, the structure of our galaxy, the position of the earth in the galaxy and various conditions that might have occurred that produced the formation of our world.
They were known.
The Gnostics were known, by the way.
This is no secret and nothing that I'm adding to the existing evidence.
They were known for being stargazers and for having a very profound knowledge of the sky and of the heavenly bodies.
So it's not surprising that they had an advanced cosmology that matches, in some respects, what we're developing today.
Well, as I just said, one of the reasons why that knowledge disappeared was because in the written forms, in the many scrolls and papyruses that they wrote and composed, which existed into the hundreds of thousands, for instance, at the famous library in Alexandria in Egypt.
Yes.
These documents were destroyed wholesale over a period of a number of centuries from about 150 AD down to, well, quite well into the Middle Ages.
And the destruction, I have to tell you that I've studied this for a long time.
At first I was rather skeptical, but I'm convinced now that the destruction must have been massive and deliberate because there's very, very little that remains of a vast body of writings.
It's as if to give you just a rough example, someone came along and wiped out all the libraries connected with the University of California on all the campuses.
It's documented, very well documented, by historians, and even historians who don't interest themselves, particularly in the occult side of this question.
There was a conflict at the beginning of the Christian era between the people who were converted to the new faith of Christianity and the pagans.
And at that time, for various reasons, the converts to the new religion felt that the knowledge held by the pagans was something that they didn't believe should survive.
And we are so lucky that these Nag Hammadi documents, which are practically the only original or near-original pagan writings referring explicitly to an alien species and how it affects us, we're so lucky that they survived.
It's just a flake, really, of an enormous volume of literature that must have existed before, say, 400 A.D. Okay, John.
Well, with what has survived and what we do know, how much detail did they really know about did they perceive what they were seeing as alien creatures?
Out of curiosity, how did they come to the realization, if you know, John, that these were alien creatures as opposed to some sort of religious manifestation or supernatural manifestation?
He taught at the University of Chicago, History of Religions.
And he was one of the great comparative mythologists of the 20th century.
He's a little less known than Joseph Campbell, but certainly of the same stature.
And one of Eliade's books was called Shamanism.
And it's a classic text on shamanism.
And he coined this term, archaic techniques of ecstasy.
It's a very famous term in the study of shamanism and history of religions.
Now, what I believe is that the pagan seers and the Gnostics who were the cream of the crop of pagan seers were actually highly sophisticated shamans.
And over many, many generations, they practiced the cultivation of occult powers, as I said, remote viewing, telekinesis, clairaudience, clairvoyance.
They developed these powers, which is known to be what is done in the path of shamanism.
You could compare them to very advanced Hindu or Tibetan yogis and lamas.
It's known that these people, by their practices that they do, develop what are called siddhis.
Siddhis are our cult powers or psychic faculties as we would call them.
So if we're willing to allow that there was this very long and ancient tradition, it's quite probable that these Gnostics who were the last generation of shamans in the pagan tradition had a high,
high level of perception and they also had behind them, this is the key thing, the experience of many generations, of many initiates who came before them, who had tested these methods and explored other worlds through these psychic powers.
So I believe that they were qualified not only to delve into other worlds And to see things that are perhaps not ordinarily seen, but also to evaluate correctly what they were seeing.
It's a very important point you raise.
In fact, you're actually asking, what is the reliability of this evidence they provide?
Well, yes, by asking how they discerned aliens versus what you would have thought they would have come up with would be some sort of religious manifestation of some sort.
Well, they did consider that aliens are involved in the religious life of humanity, but they were very, very specific about these particular aliens that they describe in the Gnostic text, in the Gnostic text of Nagamadi.
So their view of the Archons was very elaborate, believe me.
They had, first of all, as I said earlier, a cosmology.
They had a whole description of how the Earth evolved, how the solar system evolved.
And one of the things that they said in their cosmology was that before the Earth was actually formed, before the planet, as we know now, was actually formed into an environment where we could live, that the solar system was formed around the Earth rather like a crust.
They distinguished, this is really remarkable, they distinguished between the inorganic nature of the solar system and the organic nature of our planet, the Earth.
Now, of course, this corresponds to what science knows today.
As a matter of fact, it's the basis of what's sometimes called the Gaia hypothesis.
When James Lovelock developed the Gaia hypothesis, he was struck initially by this is back around 1975 by the fact that Mars doesn't have a biologically alive atmosphere, but the Earth does.
Why is it that the Earth is the only planet in our solar system that seems to have a biologically alive atmosphere?
The explanation that the Gnostics gave to that was that the Earth is not exactly really a part of the solar system.
It's more or less kind of captured in the solar system.
It's a remarkable idea.
And that the chemistry of the solar system is largely inorganic, while the chemistry of our world and the biosphere is organic.
And so they claim that these archons were formed in the early stage of the inorganic development of the solar system.
They are inorganic beings.
And they actually belong to the solar system and they inhabit the solar system, but not the Earth.
Well, the Gnostics were very specific in their cosmology.
They said that they came along with the evolution of the solar system, but not with the particular evolution of the Earth.
One of the things about these pagan seers and their vision of creation was that they saw the Earth in a very special light, and they connected it with actually a goddess.
And they believed, or I believe they actually knew on the basis of their investigations, that these archons are kind of like our cosmic cousins.
Yeah, you could say that.
But they are extraterrestrials in the sense that they cannot live and do not live on the planet with us.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that the Gnostics took that view.
They recognized that we are special in the sense that our biosphere is a very precious vessel that sustains life that cannot be found elsewhere in this solar system.
Of all these texts that were produced, I guess let's see, written text produced 600 B.C. and 400 A.D. That's right, for about 1,000 years between 600 B.C., which was the time of the great Greek philosophers, and 400 A.D., when really the Alexandrian Library was destroyed and many others.
You have 1,000 years in which these pagan initiates and teachers wrote many, many books on science, physics, geometry, biology.
It's known.
This is not something that is a marginal piece of information.
Anyway, with the 0.1% that we've got, how much detail did they go into about these beings, their description, and maybe even more, their motivations and what they were all about?
Well, one of the words that occurs frequently in these Gnostic texts, which are written in a language called Coptic, but it also has many Greek words in it, is the word pleroma, P-L-E-R-O-M-A, which actually is translated as the wholeness or the fullness or plenitude.
And pleroma was the word that the Gnostics used to refer actually to a galaxy, what we today would call a galaxy.
Now, of course, with the Hubble space photographs, I think everyone has been dazzled by this image of galaxies scattered through infinite space, like seeds.
The Gnostics actually describe this in some of the Nagamadi texts, such as the Sophia of Christ is one text, or the Agnostos, as it's also called.
It talks about the infinite plenitude of the galaxies.
And to get to the second part of your question, how precise were they?
You know, the more I study these materials, the more I am impressed by the specificity of what they had to say.
For instance, when they talk about these archon aliens that are a species of inorganic being involved With us, because they inhabit the solar system, but they are not inhabitants of the Earth as we are.
They were speaking from an understanding that these archons arise in very specific conditions having to do with our solar system in our galaxy.
In order to have that kind of specificity about what they're talking about, they must have been able to observe other worlds.
Well, we need just take a minute here to establish what are, you know, the fundamentals of what the galaxy is and how it functions.
The galaxy that we exist in, that the solar system exists in, has a core, a hub, which apparently is this massive, swirling pool, whirlpool of pure energy.
And until very, very recently, scientists did not realize that occasionally there are surges of the pure energy from the galactic core that project themselves like tongues out into the area of the galactic limbs.
They discovered this about two years ago when they found kind of tunnels in the structure of our galaxy.
But I believe that the Gnostics were, that in Gnostic cosmology, we can find a certain explanation of this effect.
The effect is, as far as I can see, that when there is a plasmic surge from the galactic core and some of that high-powered energy flows out into the galactic limbs, it can produce in the matter of the galactic limbs certain conditions, certain configurations, according to what is called autopoetis by physics.
That is, it can give rise to certain forms of life.
And according to the Gnostic cosmology, this is exactly what happened.
As our solar system was forming, and you know solar systems form all the time in the galactic limbs, stars are born, and solar systems are formed and evolved constantly.
When our solar system was born in this galactic limb that we inhabit, at a certain moment in the early part of its formation, there was a plasmatic surge.
And that plasmatic surge swept over the forming solar system and produced this race of archons.
It produced this premature species, in a sense.
That's exactly how they describe it.
And I would say it corresponds very closely to what some of the more advanced astrophysicists are working on right now.
But at the same time, because these forces in the center of the galaxy also have a high potentiality to create life, as you observe, then they created, they brought forth this species, which is described exactly by the word anomaly, our word anomaly.
It's an anomalous species.
And the species of archons came to inhabit the solar system before the Earth evolved into the form in which it could support human life.
I mean, this is a very, very sophisticated cosmological picture these people had.
And to those people who would doubt or listeners who may be saying, well, how is it possible that they could have known such intimate details of physics and astrophysics, which is something that I've asked myself a lot, too, because I came to these studies with, I think, a healthy sense of skepticism as well.
It's my understanding that yogis and shamans, through the H's, can develop powers that are equal to the powers of technological instruments.
They can see, for instance, Amazonian shamans, as you probably know, who do the ayahuasca rituals and so forth, claim that they can see the molecular structure of nature.
And so we're talking about shamans who had developed higher faculties, and I believe that it is from those faculties and from direct observation by those faculties that they were able to put together this picture.
And they do really, in a lot of ways, seem more like what we would regard as angels than what we would regard as, I don't know, some planet light years away learning how to travel faster than light, getting here, arriving here from another actual planet somewhere out there.
We're not thinking of Archons that way at all, are we?
No, we're thinking of them as inherent to our solar system and as being, in a sense, our cosmic cousins, although we're organic beings and they're inorganic beings.
Oh, as a matter of fact, there is a text in the Nagamati collection, which is called the First Apocalypse of James.
And I've written about this, written a commentary on this text in the site metahistory.org.
In fact, there's a lot, an enormous amount, about the archons now on metahistory.org, explaining more or less the cosmology that I just summarized and so forth.
But in this one particular text, which is from Nal Khamadi, they use the language of they will take away souls by theft.
And this, I believe, is equivalent to what we today would call abduction.
Now, this is not the only explicit reference to abduction in the Nagamadi, but it is one of the more clear ones.
And what's remarkable about this first apocalypse of James is it takes the form of a dialogue between a Gnostic teacher and a student.
And in this dialogue, the teacher, who is presumably a more advanced shaman who has observed and encountered these beings, explains their behavior, explains how they're menacing, how they're threatening.
They're kind of like described as bullies.
They push people around.
They don't ask for permission to intrude on our reality.
All in all, the Gnostics concluded that these archons are a predatory species.
And so I would be a little careful with equating them with angels because the normal association we make with angels is that they are perhaps emissaries of the good God.
Well, legends that you find in mythology regarding the fallen angels, the watchers, the Anunnaki as well, do also refer to these archons.
I am convinced, and I don't say this lightly, believe me, because I really looked at this one intensely, but I am convinced that these watchers of the Book of Enoch were identical to the Archons described by pagan shamans.
But I think that we do need to recognize that there is a certain kind of kinship because they belong not to the Earth, again, I emphasize this, but to the solar system.
And the Earth belongs to the solar system.
So you put that together.
Somewhere we are related to them in a cosmic sense.
Gosh, that's so interesting, John, because the Grays have been described a million times by people who have had encounters with them as what they thought were sort of biological robots, not the real intellect behind whatever was moving and motivating them, but they were sort of like biological robots.
And I think that among the many things that this Gnostic interpretation of Archons has to offer us is the confirmation of where we stand with the Greys in that respect.
And even in this text that I'm referring to, the Second Apocalypse of James, the teacher makes a very great point to his student.
They will not rule over you.
They do not have dominion over the earth.
They were not your creators, but they are in the solar system with you, and you must face up to their existence.
So there's really a tremendous message here, which I don't find anywhere else, of what stand we may take and what relationship we may develop to these beings.
All those things, but probably most particularly, they envy the fact that we can innovate, that we are driven, that we are goal-oriented, that we have the passion to explore and innovate, whereas they are, being cyborgs, have a very robotic capacity and they lack that.
It is, and from all the way in Belgium, John Lash is here, and what he is saying this night seems to be resonating with many of you out there quite well.
Mike and Kent Washington says, you know, I've long thought that grays and other visitors envy us for our emotions and ability to experience feelings.
Many abductions seem to be centered on forcing the abductee to relive emotions and emotional experiences.
Or this from area in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
Mr. Bell, I'm a rather new listener to C2C.
And in addition to saying I love the program as usual, thank you, I wanted to thank you for tonight's guest as a Wiccan.
I'm rather proud to have my religious ancestors given the credit they deserve.
Today is our Ostra holiday.
Blessed be.
And then from Christians, they see this course as proof of angelic presence.
So it's resonating, obviously, with a lot of people, but for different reasons.
I would say that the principal Gnostic text, which you find in what's called the Nag Hammadi Library in English, which has been in print now for about 20 years, edited by James Robinson, is recognized as a scholarly text and a translation of these Coptic documents.
Now, I don't follow that text myself.
I don't follow that translation myself word for word.
But I will say that the documents you find, and I'm going to quote one right here for you to show you, are not written in a metaphoric language or a symbolic language like the Prophecy Sun Out to Drums.
No, they're written in a very direct psychological language, which leaves, if you look closely at the exact meaning of the words, I think it leaves no doubt that these are concrete descriptions that can be taken as such.
And you don't have to get into layers of symbolic interpretation.
Let me give you an example from what's called the Gospel of Truth, in which the writer is describing the Archons and the mentality of the Archons.
He's saying, They are ignorant of the source, for the source is something that they cannot see.
And so it is through terror and disturbance, and instability, doubt, and division, and many illusions they implant as empty fictions in our minds that they work.
And they work at their best when we are sunk in sleep and find ourselves in disturbing dreams.
So, this is not like something that you have.
This is not symbolic language.
This is psychological language and quite precise.
And I would say that I assure you that the great part of the Nagamodi material is like that.
I had the good fortune of coming across Gnosticism and the subject of the Gnostic teachings and the mysteries, pagan mysteries, when I was quite young, around 16 or 17.
I was deeply intrigued, but I didn't really know how to get into it.
You know, it seemed like a very remote and strange world.
And I did come to Europe for the first time when I was about 19 or 20, and I did kind of stumble my way into a number of ancient sites, and it affected me very deeply, but I couldn't articulate what I was feeling.
So when my quest became conscious, there were two moments when my quest in Gnosticism became conscious.
The first one was in my late 20s when I realized that the Gnostics had a vision of the cosmos that was different from what I had been taught about from the Bible and from Christianity.
They had an alternative cosmology and a whole alternative spiritual practice to go with it.
So that really jolted me.
And then I can tell you exactly when it was, and I thank our Wiccan friend there for pointing out the fact that this is the spring equinox.
On the spring equinox in 1996, I was sitting very close to where I am right now, and suddenly, as the saying goes, the big penny dropped.
And that's the moment when I realized that the archons of which the Gnostics speak and on which they present such specific information could be equated with E.T. Grays and aliens as we know it.
When those two things came together, it was an enormous joke for me.
And at that moment, I realized that that is the point that I had actually been advancing toward all along.
I've had a long, long involvement in it, mainly through a close friend of mine, Kathy Sullivan, who lives in California.
And we, for many, many years, going back more than 25 years now, were initially fascinated, you know, as many people are, by the great megaliths around the world, the pyramids in Mexico, in Egypt, and so forth.
And we wondered how they could have been built by human engineers.
So we began to speculate on whether or not there had been some kind of superior technology involved that might have come from an alien source.
And of course, then there was the von Danikan and material and that sort of stuff.
So I've been on that track for about 25 years, but that track sort of ran parallel, you see, to my Gnostical studies until a certain point when the two things converged.
I understand that in the text, in the Gnostic text, there is no description of a lot of what we see, the hardware stuff, you know, the metal saucers, the hardware.
And this is such an important point because I think that to really get the message of the Gnostics about alien intrusion, we need to see what it says and what it doesn't say, to see what it tells us and what it doesn't tell us.
There's hardware and there's software.
The hardware is the flying machines, the discs, the cigar-shaped discs, whatever you want, the Pleiadian light ships, whatever you want to call them.
And as a matter of fact, there are many pagan sources of reports of this hardware, but not in the Nagamadi materials themselves, but in other writings by pagan teachers in the Middle Ages, because paganism survived into the Middle Ages.
And many, many of these events occurred, as you probably know, around the time of Christ.
There were enormous amounts of sightings.
For instance, the historian who accompanied Alexander the Great on his expeditions, his personal historian, recorded a battlefield scene in which UFO-type vehicles appeared above the battlefield.
So if you want to go back, sort of as Jacques Valley did, and go into the, make an inventory of hardware sightings before the Christian era and during the Christian era, you'll find many, many, many of them.
Why don't we find any reference to this hardware in the Na Khamati writings?
You know, and there's a lot of raw materials out there.
They're not the kind of raw materials that we can live on, but there's a lot of inorganic materials out there.
And the Archons are described as kind of engineers and technicians who live in the solar system and kind of sustain it.
They kind of live in the structure that they maintain.
And so they do have that engineering possibility, but that's not the real threat.
Gnostics were concerned about warning us about the way that they intrude upon our minds, into our mental software, into the syntax of our language and our belief systems.
Well, I'm going to take a little stretch here for a minute, just see if this extrapolation is valid for you.
One of the things that we have observed, I'm just going to talk about something that we observe in our world today, okay?
Sure.
On a political and global scale.
And then I'm going to draw a parallel to what Gnostics said about Archon methods.
We understand that governments, a government, even if it disguised itself as a democracy, who wanted to control its people, could do it very effectively by making them fear things that weren't really going to happen.
And as long as the fear was real, it wouldn't matter if the threatened event was real or not.
So there's a psychological technique of mind control that we all recognize, I think, pretty clearly right now.
I don't have to elaborate that any further.
Well, among the things that the Gnostics specified about the alien methods of mind control and intrusion was their use of simulation.
Now this word simulation is extremely important in the Nagamodi materials.
The actual Coptic word is hal, H-A-L.
And this term hal means to simulate something, to make something appear to happen that does not actually happen.
And Gnostics specified from their encountering with these beings, in their study of how these beings work, that they do have one particular power over us.
They can enter into our minds by some kind of telepathy, you might say, in such a way that they can persuade us that things are real which are not real.
Now, we're all trying to figure out how these abductions take place because they're obviously real to the people who experience them.
And I would never deny or dismiss the experience of those people.
But what we wonder is, well, how can it be real?
Because the things that happen in the abduction, for instance, being sucked out of a room and into a spacecraft, defy the laws of physics as we know it, right?
I believe that there are probably a technology that would allow you to put on a virtual reality helmet and gloves and stand in a box and almost experience skiing in the Alps.
Certainly, if they can create fear in us and invoke terror, they get some kind of high off that.
There does seem to be a drug there for them.
But secondly, let's remember that they are envious of us, and everything that they do at the end of the day comes down to an attempt that they make to sort of get into our heads, get into our emotions, and become like us because we have things that they don't have.
The really weird part of the story is that their attempt to do that is totally absurd.
For me, you know, one of the things that was most enlightening after I made the Odcorn Alien Connection, and then I started to read a lot of Jacques Valais.
And at one point, I think it's in Messengers of Deception, Jacques Valet says, the way to a man's belief is through absurdity.
And that really struck me as a very revealing comment, because from what I can make out of the alien behavior, alien archon behavior, it's really quite absurd.
Well, maybe, John, but if the motive of the aliens is explained as their envy for us, they're wanting to essentially replace us or even become us, we're saying it's a silly agenda and they can't do it.
Well, we have to be very careful about writing that off.
I totally agree with you.
But again, I'm trying to translate and convey to the best of my ability what Gnostics said.
As far as I understand it, they said there is no possibility that they can really take us over, that they can really come in and take over our reality.
But we can, in a sense, give over our power to them.
Now, here you have, in a document written by some anonymous seer and teacher in the mystery schools 2,000 years ago, a report of an alien attempt at interbreeding.
Rather, those whom she bears for us will be under our charge and under our control.
Okay, so that's their intention.
And let us not tell Adam, for he is not one of us, we will plunge him into a deep sleep.
And in our sleep, we will instruct him to the effect that Eve came out of his rib in order that she, his wife, might obey him, and that he may be Lord over her, and we may be Lord over him.
Then Eve, being a spiritual force, recognized the Archons, and she laughed at their intention.
She put mist into their eyes, and secretly she left her double in their presence while she entered Gnosis and ascended to the light.
The Gnostics pursued her, but they were unable to seize upon Eve.
That is the moment when it got born sometime in prehistory, we now know that it has been around a long time.
And the amazing thing about that passage is that the Gnostics are telling us, if I interpret this correctly, and I think here you can see that this is not symbolic or obscure language.
They're saying that the Archons wished to interbreed.
Where, John, and how, John, do we deal with these modern reports of women with pregnancies that are terminated and then later are shown the results of those pregnancies, John?
I have been staggered by what I've read, as I think everyone has.
And I will not sit here in Belgium or in any other country in the world and pretend to you that I have the ultimate answer to that, and I can explain it all away.
I will only say that human beings, in their imagination, are capable of affecting their own bodies, as you know.
Stigmata is, for instance, an example of a religious experience.
And we have a mind-body connection that the Archons can't even get close to.
But they can meddle with our mind-body connection, perhaps, and cause phenomena to occur in the mind-body zone that perhaps make these events happen.
I'm sure these events are very real.
I have complete respect and compassion for the people who experience them.
At the same time, I follow the Gnostic view that all this is happening because there is some alien force intruding in our minds that is so affecting our reality that it makes us believe things that are not so.
And yet we know also that envy is ultimately very frustrating.
I might envy Brad Pitt, you know, but if I was able to take over his life and be in his place, I wouldn't handle it very well because I'm not Brad Pitt.
And so this is pretty much the situation with the aliens.
They are not us, but they would like to become us.
And we may give them the opportunity to do so.
As you very, very astutely observed, you know, no chance that people would give up their freedom, you know, for a little security, is there?
Their position is more or less like we would be in if we were doing deep sea diving, especially in the really, really deep part of the sea where you have to go in these armored vehicles, and we can only be down there for a very short period of time.
That is comparable to what they must tolerate when they try physically To permeate the biosphere.
They cannot live in the biosphere.
They are inorganic beings who don't breathe air.
It's been suggested that they have a, well, the gray cyborgs have a silicon-mercury type of composition.
And in any case, it's not physical intrusion that is their main intention.
Well, but then again, it is not so bad that we would be described as puppets on strings, even though perhaps at times it would seem that way.
You're saying that we have all these different freedoms and emotions and passions and drives and goals that we try and achieve that are separate and much beyond their ability to even understand, much less intervene in.
When it comes to understanding the actual complexity of the human mind and how we are goal-driven and how we can envision and create things through imagination and intention, they're rather like donkeys trying to figure out a grand piano.
And the other thing, I think if I had to sum up the whole essence of what the Gnostics are saying about the archons, in one sentence, in four words, I would say, the archons are delusional.
And those who become enmeshed with them become delusional.
And the word archon is used, as I've said, in a special way in these Gnostic texts, but it was a very common word in the Greco-Latin world.
Based on what you just said, then, would you agree that perhaps a large percentage of those who are in mental institutions around the world are so affected?
I would say that the Archon intrusion probably has played and does play a great role in mental illness.
But I would add to that, having said that, I would say that these people who can be defined as mentally ill may be actually perceiving the reality of the archons, but they are not able to interpret it or handle it.
And that's why the Gnostics considered it so important in their training schools, which were called the Mysteries, to teach the Neophytes how to face the Archons, how to defend themselves against the Archons.
So I think that Philip K. Dick is a beautiful example.
And as you probably know, he absorbed a tremendous amount of Gnostic material.
And he had a Gnostic illumination experience himself in March of 1974.
His book, Vallis, is a beautiful introduction to Gnosticism.
And in that, he shows that a schizophrenic who is himself can have these perceptions that the Gnostics have.
But if they're not trained to handle them properly, it can lead to some very serious mental disturbances.
Well, if you look on the website Metahistry Org, which I've been writing now since 2002, you will see that it begins with a rather bold mission statement regarding Gaia and the living planet.
And the reason for that, presence of that message on the site is because one of the purposes of Metahistry Org, not the only one, but one of the purposes is to rewrite, recreate, based on the original materials, the Gnostic creation myth.
And in the Gnostic Creation Myth, which I'm drawing from the Nag Hammadi materials and some other sources, the central figure of their myth is the goddess Sophia, who becomes embodied in the planet Earth.
The reason why the Earth is a living entity and the rest of the planets in the solar system are not, according to Gnostics, is because the Earth is actually the body of a divine being called Sophia.
So I make this connection between Gaia and Sophia.
I strongly feel that the growing understanding of Gaia since about 1975, it's about 30 years now, is actually going to bring us to the point where it converges precisely with the Gnostic myth of Sophia.
So I've attempted to describe that myth and explain and interpret that myth all throughout the site, Metahistry Org.
I'm curious how you react to the current earth changes underway.
Some of them seem really quite incredible in the climate changes, the geological action, the volcanoes, just a lot of things happening around the Earth right now that seem, oh, I don't know, progressively dire from a human point of view.
Well, there is no evidence, as far as I know, from the Gnostic angle, that archons, even though they have a greater command of planetary physics than we do, if I might put it in that way, that they could affect our planet in a catastrophic Manner.
Well, as I said before, I think the best thing to remember, the essential thing to remember in the Gnostic message here is that the archons are in themselves delusional.
And I know that's a big, big statement to make, and I would just have to direct your listeners to the website in order to get a deeper explanation of that.
But to the extent that they are delusional, they can cause us to be delusional.
And what Gnostics saw as the greatest danger of delusion of our species is when we lose our connection with Gaia, the living planet.
That's why paganism, which is a terrible stereotype and in some ways reticent to use the word, but ancient paganism was the religion of nature in which human beings had a profound connection to the planet and saw it as intelligent and divine.
And so there's a place where Gnosticism converges with the Gaia hypothesis.
And through the Gaia hypothesis, we may be coming into a bond, a conscious bond with Gaia.
The Gnostics said that is the most important thing in the world for us, obviously, I mean, because we need to co-evolve with the planet we inhabit.
Everything that takes us away from that co-evolution is delusional and can have catastrophic effects in the environment.
You know, you're, again, it's an almost telepathic remark there, Art.
In my book, The Gnostic Legacy, which will be coming out from Chelsea Green in the fall, I open the book with a reference to D. Brown's book, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, which came out in the 70s.
And I use this term, Native Americans.
Now, you know, everyone now knows what Native Americans are, thanks to Dee Brown and other writers.
And they also know what was done to Native Americans.
And if I say to you that the Native Americans who existed before the Europeans arrived in America had an indigenous spiritual wisdom, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Pagan civilization before the era of Christ, say 600 B.C. or 1000 B.C., consisted of a vast mosaic of tribal cultures that were shamanically oriented, exactly like the confederacy of tribes that the Europeans encountered when they came to America.
It's an exact parallel.
Native Europeans were pagans.
That's how I define the word pagan.
And their religion was earth-oriented or Gaia-oriented.
So it's out of that consciousness that the Gnostic knowledge came.
Well, it seems reasonable to me, and I've always rather thought that the American natives had it, even though that was a derisive term used then, dirt worshipers, really.
I don't know.
It makes sense to me, and I think it makes sense to a lot of other people as well.
And one of the things that I've learned from the study of Native American wisdom and from discussing some of the people who represent it, the survivors, is that they also were sophisticated shamans who had a perception of many types of interdimensional beings that interact with us.
And because they were able to perceive these beings, they had the psychic ability, they were also able to determine which of those beings were predatory and which were benign or neutral.
It says here that resistance to, and I thought this was interesting, E.T. slash archon intrusion was considered by Gnostics to depend on humanity's connection to the wisdom of Goddess Sophia or the Earth, right?
Yeah, they felt that as long as we have a biological, a real physical connection with the Earth, and as long as we are co-evolving with nature, that the Archons have very little chance of intruding on us, you know.
It's only when we allow ourselves to become dissociated from our bodies that we become very, very vulnerable to intrusion.
If we follow the text here again, I mentioned this text, the second apocalypse, the first apocalypse of James, which is on the site, by the way.
It's called the Gnostic Catechism on Metahistory.org, in which the Gnostic teacher instructs the pupil on exactly what to say when they face the archons.
It states in the book of Enoch that there were watchers.
They came to earth to overlook the human species which God had put on earth.
The reason he put them on earth, because in the eon before this earth, before he shook the great catabelle, that there was a war in heaven with the angels when Satan drew a third of the beings of God away.
And there was a great war.
And God, being a loving God, they were drawn away from him, the shining nagosh, which had fallen because of pride.
He was one of the covering cherubim of the ark, of the mercy seat of God.
He was made the most beautiful.
What happened was he drew them away, a third of the angels away, and rather than God wiping out a third of his created souls, what he did, he shook the earth, wiped out the beasts who were on the earth because in our physical form we could not compete with dinosaurs or whatever.
And he made us flesh and blood.
And it grieved him that he had to make him flesh, us flesh and blood, and put us on earth.
Then what happened was that on the sixth day he made all the other races.
On the seventh day he rested.
On the seventh day he made, I will make them, the Adam, and the Adam will be I shall make them in our likeness.
Well, of course, as I mentioned earlier, the Watchers, as they are called, appear in other documents.
They appear in the Books of Enoch, which he's citing, and they also appear in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
But the interpretation of the Watchers, these fallen angels, and what they actually are doing, where they are coming from, is quite different in Gnostic materials than it is in these other texts.
It so happens, now this is a remarkable coincidence, or I don't know if you would apply the word coincidence to this.
Although the Nag Hammadi texts were discovered in the first week of December 1945 in a jar in Egypt, the significance of them was not recognized until the summer of 1947, July of 1947.
I was wondering if you think that aliens could be fallen angels or other angels.
And my other question is, I remember a previous show when one of the guests said that when aliens are abducting people, that the people would say, help me, Jesus, and the aliens would scream and yell, and they'd leave.
I'm wondering if that has any connection between the aliens being the same thing as demons and them being afraid of Christ's name.
Among the specific guidelines and techniques that Gnostics advised for resisting aliens, they did not advise saying the name of Christ or holding up a crucifix or making the sign of the cross.
And yet that will work in some cases for modern people.
Why does that work for modern people?
Very simply, because if the individual who's being accosted by the Archon alien has invested their sense of personal power in their belief about Jesus, then that will work as a tool to repel the Archons.
It's not that the repelling power comes from an entity called Jesus.
It comes from the belief of the person who holds Jesus as a spiritual figure.
So it's a matter of basic psychology, how that works.
But Gnostics did not advise that.
Gnostics advise that when two things, that when we are confronted by these alien-type beings who attempt to abduct us or in any way to take control of us.
We should affirm our connection with the earth, with this goddess of the earth, Sophia.
And they also advise that it's very good to have some knowledge of kundalini because kundalini, which I think many of the listeners will be familiar with, is a force that exists in the human body that acts as an immune system against alien intrusion.
West of the Rockies, you're on the O with John Lash in Belgium.
Hello.
unidentified
Hi, John.
Hi, Arch.
Hi there.
I wonder if you could kind of comment on the following Gnostic points.
The first would be that Jesus is the Creator, though he may have had different names.
According to the Bible, he has a name which no man knows.
That the Archons are actually archangels led by Satan, who the Bible says is the God of this world.
And I'm wondering if you could comment on the original Syrian text of the Book of Numbers in which it says that Mastema is the Lord of the spirits of all flesh, and that Allah...
But this material is very deep, you know, and in order to really extract the message that the what's left of the message, because as I said, it would be helpful if we had a lot more texts that were destroyed.
Zoroastrianism plays in the background of biblical mythology.
What we have to be aware of, I think, and very cautious about when we hear these stories is because just because something is said in a certain ancient text or written on clay tablets doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.
I would not pretend to say in any absolute sense that I know what the final truth is.
I know to the best of my ability.
What I find to be reliable and credible in the Gnostic material is that it can be verified by experience and it correlates so closely to science, parapsychology, noetics, and other indigenous wisdom.
The nature of the Archons, as far as I can tell, I can't give you a specific textual reference here, but what I would infer from the specifics I find is that they are clone-like beings.
And because they are inorganic, they would have a much longer lifespan than we have.
Well, I guess that's it because everyone else covered the thing about, you know, I was thinking about Lucifer and all of that stuff, and as Christians, how can we buy any of this if God didn't make the Archons in one way or another, whether they, you know, fell away or did anything?
They had to come from God in order for us to buy into this at all.
Once again, from Belgium, here is John Lash, who has been studying these documents very hard.
And, you know, a lot of people, John, are going to ask about why, and they did earlier, and I'm kind of asking again, why these should be believed above and beyond any other ancient document that's described the way it is or was.
Well, I want to make it clear that I'm really not asking anyone to believe these documents.
It's not a question of belief, but rather a question of determining the validity of the knowledge.
I am convinced that there is genuine and reliable knowledge in here about our cosmology, our connection to the earth, and these aliens that can be applied and can help us to understand them.
But that is not something that needs to be taken on belief at all.
It needs to be examined and tested in each person's personal reality.
And apparently what I would conclude from that is that the Gnostics were saying that these cyborg entities, inorganic beings, as Carlos Castaneda would say, are not entirely devoid of emotion.
They don't have the range of emotions that we have, and they may just be fixated on one emotion.
So I think, again, it's a kind of, there's a lot of finesse.
I think you've been able to pick up on this.
A lot of finesse in these Gnostic interpretations.
So we could say, yes, the Archons are capable of one mastering emotion, unfortunately, which is envy.
But what they envy us for is not so much our emotional capacity as our intentional capacity, our ability to imagine and intend things and then to bring about what we intend.
They don't operate that way.
They're clone-like beings who only operate by imitation and through taking orders, as it were.
Well, there must be something in it that you recognize, yeah, that could be yours.
That's right.
And the reason why there is something in us, in humanity, that the Gnostics recognize is because, in fact, when you go back far enough into the Gnostic creation story, which is called the Sophia myth, named after this goddess Sophia, you find that the origin of the Archons is due to Sophia, and the origin of the earth is also due to Sophia.
So that answers the question that was raised by one of your early callers.
And if you read certain passages in metahistry.org where I make exact parallels, and I think those parallels will stand up to criticism, between the birth of a star in the arms of the galactic disk, the formation of atomic matter, the formation of inorganic life forms previous to the formation of the Earth.
It's a very, very reasonable cosmology that the Gnostics presented to us, but it's strange in many ways because we're not conditioned to think along those lines.
In Asia and in the Gnostic teachings, which are similar to Asian teachings, there's a totally different paradigm of creation.
And according to the Asian paradigm, there was no beginning.
Nothing ever really began.
It's always been here.
There was no beginning.
It's a process of eternal becoming.
And this paradigm of eternal becoming is also what you find in the wisdom of indigenous people, like the Australian Aborigines and the American Indians.
And it's called the dream time.
It means that we are living in a cosmic process which never had a beginning and will never have an end.
Now, that's very disturbing to us in the West because our paradigm that's installed in our brains and our language demands that we say, it began here and it will end there.
Well, these two paradigms, and they're both valuable and we can learn from both of them, are the two highest forms of metaphysical thought that our species has produced.
Could religion be a part of the Archon alien agenda to control humanity?
And my other question is, could Jesus be the result of, who, by the way, Eileen Pagel insists that he, in another Harvard scholar, said that he worshipped Sophia?
Could Jesus himself be a result of interbreeding like Noah was supposed to have been?
I'll answer both of them specifically and as concisely as I can.
The first question raises an aspect of the Gnostic message that we could easily spend another three hours discussing.
So I'm just going to give it to you hard and fast.
Yes, indeed, the Gnostics did say specifically that certain religious beliefs, especially the belief in the divine Redeemer, is an implant in the human mind by the archontic forces.
So Gnosticism contains, and this is not, Again, my interpretation, scholars all agree on this point.
Gnosticism contains a critique of the belief systems inherent to Judaism and Christianity, and especially a critique of the Messiah or Redeemer complex, which Gnostics rejected as a delusional belief, and they connected it with the Archons.
So that's the answer to the first part of your question.
I hope that's clear.
Secondly, no, there is no indication that I know of.
Again, Jesus, the word Jesus and even the word Christ are used in a particular way in Gnosticism that must not be confused with the way they are used in Christianity.
This is one of the biggest problems in sorting out the Gnostic materials.
But as far as I know, no, there's no indication that Jesus would have been any kind of a hybrid.
You know what the Gnostics mean when they use the word Jesus?
They mean not a person, not a historical person.
They call Jesus the Mejotis, which is a strange made-up word you find only in Gnosticism.
And the Mejotis really means the inner guide or inner pilot.
So when Gnostics referred to Jesus, they were not referring to any historical person.
They were referring to something that they believe exists in each human being as an inner guiding force, a pilot.
I'd like to start with you seem to lend a great weight to the sources that you're studying, and I'm wondering what other historical references you've made in order to validate or cross out some of the findings that you've come across.
The Gnostic materials that you will find in this Nag Hammadi library that were discovered in Egypt are extremely difficult.
I mean, I have to tell you, there are 50 documents in there.
I've probably read each one of them at least 50 times over the last 20 years, if not 100.
I have crawled meticulously through the Coptic texts, the Coptic and Greek translations.
And in order to frame that material for myself in such a way that it became reliable and valid, I had to background it with a lot of other studies, you know, studies in the religion, in what we know about pagan religion,
in many other that there are very few original documents from the Gnostics, but there's a great deal written about paganism and pagan religions and ancient beliefs and mythology and biblical mythology.
I came across, and what's really stunning about the Gnostic material is that it's not only consistent with other ancient information, but it's consistent, in the second place, with the knowledge and the wisdom of indigenous peoples.
And thirdly, it has very, very close parallels to the latest findings in science and psychology.
And that, to me, is a pretty powerful formula.
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Now, I myself, I'm a Christian man, and I read my Bible.
I believe that the Word of God is the Word of God, but I do not believe that it's the only source of information.
I don't think it's right to be closed-minded and say, well, this is what the Bible says, therefore anything from any other source is invalid.
I've heard you talk about interbreeding, and it brought something to mind David and Goliath, and also some of the things you were talking about, these entities having mental powers, such as maybe possibly telekinetic powers or telepathic or things of that sort.
The texts are very specific, that they do have mental powers and that they can sort of insinuate their thoughts into our minds.
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When the Bible said that David had slain Goliath and came on to be king, that there were giants in the earth in those days and that he made sort of a crusade out trying to hunt them down.
And I was wondering if you had considered the fact that some of these abilities that pop up in humanity here and there may not be a lingering effect of interbreeding with humans and alien forces, because it seems to me that if it were just a human trait, it would come along more frequently, such as people with good reflexes or a knack for math or some such thing.
Well, I would respond to that, first of all, by saying that we don't even know what our human potential is, and it may be far greater than we imagine and that we have as yet realized.
Secondly, I would say that I am certain that Gnostics, seers, and shamans and masters in the mystery schools, which were pre-Christian spiritual centers, had these kinds of powers.
They developed them as yogis in the Orient did.
And that there is no need to go to an interbreeding theory in order to explain the great powers that are present in the human species.
Gnostics certainly, as I quoted earlier, they describe how the Archons attempt to interbreed with our species, but they actually are unable to do so.
So they really ruled that out, and that's a very important point to take.
Well, John, do they ever come to the conclusion then that they cannot do it, or are they eternally stuck in the same place of trying to achieve that which they cannot?
I mean, in certain ways over here, Europeans are very mired in their history and in very outdated paradigms and ways of viewing things.
And although there is a fair amount of ET and alien speculation over here, and there are sightings and so forth, they're not anywhere near into the subject to the depth that we are in the United States.
I'd like to challenge Mr. Lash about a historical fact.
For example, when St. Patrick was challenging the Druids, he had a contest, a couple of contests with them, and he overcame them, and that's what convinced the Irish that they should become Christian rather than remain in the paganism of Gnosticism.
You know, one of the strange contradictions, I won't use the word hypocrisy, about Christianity from the beginning is that there are stories about Christian saints overcoming Gnostics and pagans with magic, but then, of course, the Christians ban magic, don't they?
So it's a story, and there are many stories like that, but that story alone does not prove anything about the value of what pagans knew and of the kind of powers that they had.