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Feb. 19, 2005 - Art Bell

02:54:25

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Timothy Good - UFOs and Coverups - Chris Moneymaker - Poker Champion

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	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	♪♪♪ From the high desert of that great American Southwest, I
	bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones.
	Every single one of them covered like a blanket by this program, Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell here for the weekend edition.
	You may have noticed I took last weekend off.
	A little story behind that.
	It had rained and rained and rained and rained and rained here.
	And Ramona and I wanted to get away, so we set it all up to, you know, I called the network and said, hey, you know, we've had nothing but rain and we really want to get away in the RV, so what do you say?
	We've looked at the forecast and, as far as I can see, there's no rain in the forecast, so I'd like to have the weekend off.
	Sure enough, gave me the weekend off.
	We got into the RV, it took off, got up to a place called Mesquite, Nevada, Woke up the next morning to flash flood warnings for alerts and warnings and so forth for Pahrump and in fact the whole in fact actually how I found out was the RV has satellite television so I rolled CNN the morning I got up after arriving in Mesquite and it said flood warnings from the American Southwest and I went looked at our forecast and there it was so we came home
	And, um, took care of what broadcast information we had to, uh, very quickly, and then, uh, and then, and still!
	The American Southwest, as you've seen in the news, with the flooding in California, it's day after day after day of rain, I'm telling you folks.
	The desert here is turning into... It's all green.
	You drive around the desert, it's all...
	Green.
	Maybe this is the great climate shift that everybody talked about.
	Everything out there is green.
	It's February, but it's green.
	It's really weird day after day.
	And if you look at the forecast now, we've got another five or seven days of rain ahead of us.
	As far as the eye can see, nothing but rain.
	All right.
	In the next hour comes Timothy Good on the subject of UFOs, also the subject, of course, of a tremendous A special by ABC coming up this Thursday.
	You mark it down right now.
	This coming Thursday, ABC was here at my home filming for two days.
	That'll earn me about 30 seconds on the show.
	So, somewhere or another you'll see my shiny face and perhaps that of Ramona in that special coming up on ABC 8 to 10 o'clock, 7 central, I think, on Thursday.
	A primetime UFO special.
	Who'da thunk, huh?
	All right, coming up in a moment, Chris Moneymaker.
	You know I'm a fan, a big fan, of Texas Hold'em.
	We watch the Travel Channel and ESPN, and like so many other millions of Americans, we have become enthralled with Texas Hold'em.
	Well, Chris Moneymaker is the 2003 winner of the World Series of Poker, and he, like, came out of nowhere.
	Here's this this guy up there with you know on the final table with these incredible poker players you know who get their time after time after time for a reason because they're good and moneymaker whips their butts.
	So in a moment we're going to explore remember we had Amarillo Slim on not too long ago and now we will explore The mind of a man who made it all the way, won the World Series, incredible.
	Chris Moneymaker in just a moment, stay right there.
	It's Iron Man.
	Now one of the greats, Chris Moneymaker, is the Tennessee accountant who turned a $40
	poker bid into a $2.5 million purse in the nation's biggest game of cards.
	Chris is currently a professional poker player, spends his time now traveling the country promoting his new gaming company.
	Here is Chris Moneymaker.
	Chris, welcome to the program.
	Thanks, Art.
	I appreciate you having me on.
	Well, maybe you can tell me, Chris.
	I mean, poker has been there forever.
	Texas hold'em for a long time, years and years.
	But in the last couple of years, with the Travel Channel and ESPN showing the whole cards and showing all of this, there's been this explosion, this incredible explosion of poker.
	How come?
	Well, I think it's two things.
	The whole cards are the biggest thing.
	I mean, when you can really get into the mind of the player and see what they're doing on TV and sort of play along with them, I mean, that's probably the main thing that's driving this poker phenomenon.
	And also, when you look at, I think if you look on TV now, all the reality TV shows that you see on, poker's probably the purest form of reality TV you'll see out there.
	I mean, it's nothing scripted, it's all real life, and it's people going up for More money than what you would see at any other game show.
	And we're playing for millions of dollars where they're giving away $50,000 in some of these game shows.
	Well, the ratings for it are absolutely through the roof.
	Oh, it's amazing.
	Everybody's doing poker shows now.
	I mean, you've got some on the Game Show Network, Bravo, Travel Channel, ESPN, NBC's coming out with one next month.
	So, I guess the appropriate thing for me to do would be to ask you about, you know, the big win.
	I mean, your book is very descriptive.
	It sort of starts out and takes us through.
	I mean, you had to borrow money to even get there, right?
	Yeah, I mean, I wasn't the best poker player when I went out there.
	I was decent, but I had a blackjack where I played blackjack and I sports gambled a lot.
	I didn't make a ton of money, so I didn't have exactly a ton of money going out there.
	I won my seat, but getting out there is expensive, and then I felt like I needed at least a week to learn how to play with other people in a casino environment, tournament environment, which I hadn't had previous.
	I played in a live casino before playing, you know, marine games, but never in a tournament environment.
	All right, so everybody in the audience understands you went on to the internet, I guess, and they have these pre-games on the internet, and that's how you won your seat.
	What is a seat worth?
	The seat's worth $10,000.
	worth $10,000.
	$10,000.
	$10,000.
	So you took your $40 on the internet and turned that into a $10,000 seat.
	That's correct.
	At that point, you do what?
	You say, oh, now I need to stay in a hotel, I need to eat, I need transportation, this is going to cost me so much money.
	Right, yeah, you've got to get a flight out there, you've got to have a hotel room, and, you know, the tournament lasts a week, and I wanted to go out there a week before to learn, so you're talking two weeks in a hotel, which you have to pay for, so, I mean, it's not exactly, it's not free, so you have to pay for it somehow.
	Um, when you first got there, you were probably regarded by, you know, the guys who were likely to end up on the, you know, the final table as dead money, weren't you?
	Oh, of course, yeah.
	I mean, I was just like everybody else sitting out there, in awe of all the poker players.
	Did you get to sit short of the final table?
	As you approach the final table, the way it works, folks, is you just keep playing table after table.
	And if you keep beating, I guess if you keep winning these tables, you will finally arrive at the final table.
	But that's a long journey, right?
	Yeah, it's a seven-day journey.
	It takes a long time.
	Seven days?
	Mm-hmm.
	What are those seven days like, Chris?
	They're absolute terrible.
	I mean, it's sitting there for 12 hours to 14 hours a day.
	Texas Hold'em is a game where you can lose it all on one hand, right?
	once you go broke so you're always having to pay attention you can't ever
	take a break and you get mentally and physically drained after about three or
	four days of doing that. Texas Hold'em is a game where you can lose it all on one
	hand right? Definitely. How would you explain to the audience you know many of
	whom are not familiar with poker but I think most people some people know what
	What are tells?
	Tells are when an opponent or you get nervous during a situation, you're, you have different kind of reactions, whether you have a strong hand or a weak hand.
	And as you know, you have to be under pressure to have what are called tells.
	And when you do get nervous, you'll have different facial tics or different reactions to different situations and it's just observing
	those over time and developing a pattern of what those things are.
	What are your tells? I've always been told, I was told the third day that my nostrils
	flared when I was bluffing. Really?
	Were you able to go back and review the tape and see if that was true?
	Well, fortunately or unfortunately there wasn't any tape of me doing that.
	It was before I was really caught on camera too much.
	I see.
	And it was actually brought to my attention by a fellow player that was already busted out of the tournament.
	So, he was nice enough to let me know.
	So, I started using that to my advantage later on in the tournament and started flaring my nostrils.
	Oh, really?
	So, in other words, when you wanted to send a false, that's pretty cool.
	And do these tells get sort of rumored around everywhere?
	Yeah, I mean, you know, everybody thinks they have tails and everybody has, you know, tails are not an exact science.
	It's something that you have to have for yourself.
	I mean, some people will tell you someone has a tail and you disagree with it.
	I mean, it's not a perfect science, unfortunately.
	It's just something you sort of use as guidelines when you're playing at the table.
	Do you use them?
	Oh, that's my main part of my game is using them, but you have to be careful because, like, I was using my nose to throw a fake tail.
	There's a lot of people pulling off fake tails, so.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it'd be psychology and double psychology, and I don't know how you'd get around that.
	I guess you just have to use your gut.
	Is that what you finally... I mean, you were at a table with people... Gus Hansen, for example.
	That guy scares the hell out of me.
	When I watch Gus play, he just scares me to death.
	I mean, the guy will bet on anything!
	It's amazing how Aggressive people can get at the table, and it's definitely tough to play against someone like Gus.
	Sam Farhaw isn't as wild as Gus, but he plays a fast game, and they put a lot of pressure on you at the table.
	And what they're doing, they're looking for tells by putting tons of pressure on you.
	And it does make it tough to play against those type of players.
	Yeah, I mean, Gus doesn't just have the reputation.
	I've watched the guy.
	He will bet just virtually on anything.
	Is that his strategy?
	In itself, in other words, everything else aside, if you are aggressive enough, if you're willing to keep throwing the bigger part of the money out there on the table, is that a strategy in itself to win poker?
	Oh, definitely.
	I mean, first of all, people fear you.
	I mean, they don't want to get mixed up in a pot with you because they really don't know where you are.
	I mean, the good thing about poker is if you know where your opponent is, which he can
	somewhat narrow down by how he bets, but you don't know where he is, he has an advantage
	over you in the long run.
	Is each player sort of required to show his cards so the camera can get a look at them?
	You're not required.
	You sign a contract in the beginning of the tournament and to play in the tournament.
	It says that you'll show your cards and you can't wear advertisements or whatever the case may be for this particular tournament.
	And it's not until you make it to the final table or What's called the TV table throughout like the World Series where they put you one specific table.
	It's the only time you have to show your whole card.
	So you know for six days I didn't even show a whole card once.
	So it just depends on what table you get and how the luck of the draw comes up.
	If you were to describe your style of play versus other champions, Zamorillo, Doyle, others, how would you describe your style of play?
	In general, it's aggressive, but it really just depends on the table.
	I play my style exactly to how my table plays.
	I mean, I don't sit down with a game plan or a way to play.
	I'm adapted to whatever best fits the table I'm sitting on.
	Another thing that I've seen poker players do is for a certain period of time, they'll be extremely aggressive, and then they'll totally switch gears and start throwing away cards.
	And you gasp when you see what they throw away.
	They're getting so conservative, it's crazy.
	Yeah, when you're playing really aggressively, I mean, it's called changing gears, and when you get really crazy, you start raising a bunch of hands, people start to believe that you're just doing nothing but stealing the whole time, and they'll start calling you with a bunch of stuff, and, you know, you really don't want to be in, like, you know, Gus, he changes gears, you just don't see it as much, he does change gears, and he backs it down, but, uh, you know, when people start calling you with anything, it can get sort of scary, so to turn that off, you start playing More solid hands without them sort of knowing.
	You're still giving off the impression that you're stealing on and that you're raising and you're being aggressive, but you're really not.
	Okay.
	You're going to have to remind me of which tournament this was because I've seen so many.
	But I watched you in a tournament fairly recently.
	It may have been some time ago.
	They delay these things.
	But you started off with a whole lot of money.
	And they just beat the hell out of you.
	I mean, they just really took you to the cleaners.
	Which one was that?
	It was televised.
	I don't remember getting taken to clears much recently.
	The only one that we fed down in Austin recently that's been on TV that I've really done poorly on was called the Battle of the Sexes.
	I think that was it.
	Yeah.
	We all started with 100,000 in chips.
	They started the blinds real high on that.
	It was a fun type game.
	It was, you know, just have a good time.
	I flopped it.
	I got a straight on the river and a girl had a full house.
	I thought she may have had a full house, but I called anyway.
	It's sort of second-guessing my first gut instinct, but it happens sometimes with poker.
	Yeah, like they keep saying, that's poker.
	Yeah, I got beat up in that one pretty good.
	This is something I asked Amarillo Slim, and try as I might, Chris, I couldn't get him to answer it.
	Here's the question.
	Why are there so few or even no big-time women champions?
	Well, I mean, to answer the question, I guess in the best way I know how, is the ratio of men to women playing at this point.
	I mean, you've got probably at least a 40 or 50 to 1, if not more, ratio of guys playing compared to girls.
	That ratio is changing right now, but if you look at the tournament that I played in that I won, there was 839 people, and I would say probably 30 or 40 of those were women.
	Just based on the sheer number alone, that's probably the main reason why, but you're starting to see a lot of women play, and they're very good when they do play, so I think that in a few years you might see one pop up.
	You don't think there's anything about the emotional aspect of a woman's personality that would tend to bring on more tells, or I don't know, something?
	Well, they can be as crafty as we can, if not craftier.
	The only difference I can see with the women I've played with versus the men is just men in general are more aggressive.
	All right, well, in the old poker, it was all about the cards you had.
	I mean, yeah, there was some bluffing.
	saying all the bill bill tend to sit back more and wait for the handle of it
	more alright well in the old
	poker it was all about
	the cards you had i mean you know there was some bluffing
	but in the new poker it seems like it's all about aggressiveness and how much
	you can scare the other guys
	you know with ring game and you know plan for cash money it's all about
	playing you know it's quite a person but also get the card and plan the correct
	In poker, tournament poker, which is a totally different game, you have to play it exactly opposite what you would play a ring game.
	You have to be aggressive, you have to be crazy, you have to take some chances, you have to get lucky a few times, and you have to be able to really read your opponent real quickly.
	If there are people out there, and there are millions of fans now of all these poker tournaments, they can either take, what, $10,000 or sometimes less and get in, or they can get in the way you did, starting on the internet in poker games.
	Most of them are probably dead money.
	How would you advise these people?
	Playing smaller tournaments, keep cracking at them.
	It took me a good seven months to really Do well in any kind of tournament online.
	For a long time, I would get busted real early.
	Keep changing your styles.
	Change it up a little bit.
	See what's more comfortable with you.
	Enjoy it.
	It'll come with time.
	Was there any lightbulb that went on for you as you kept playing and playing and playing, even online?
	Was there some style or moment you reached where you knew that you could do this?
	What's funny is the time it hit the light bulb for me was actually, I had never won a tournament.
	I was playing online.
	It was probably seven months before I went to the World Series.
	I was playing in a tournament and me and my buddy have exactly different styles.
	He was so much more aggressive than I was at the table.
	I was more conservative and I played half the tournament and built a pretty good sizable chip lead in just one specific tournament.
	And then I got tired of playing, and I let him come out and finish it on my account.
	And I watched him play, and he was just playing like a Gus Hansen type style, and he ended up winning the tournament.
	So, I started using that style more later in the tournament, and I started winning some tournaments and finishing in the money a lot more often.
	Who do you admire the most?
	You've mentioned, I mentioned Gus, and then you've mentioned him several times.
	Do you look at Gus and admire him?
	If I admire anybody in the sport, I mean, it's a... Fear him?
	I don't fear him.
	If there's a person I fear, it's probably Johnny Chan.
	He's probably one of the scariest guys out there.
	Really?
	I only played with Gus once, and I got lucky and put him out, but he's definitely a scary guy.
	I've only played with him once, so it's hard to put anything on where he is.
	Why do you fear Chan?
	I've played with him several times, and He's a difficult person to get a read on.
	He's been in the game for 20 years, and he's got about every move I've ever seen.
	I haven't been playing for long, but I've played against some really good people, and he's one of the best I've ever played against.
	You won $2.5 million.
	Everybody always wants to know this.
	When a gambler Wins two and a half million dollars.
	Does he go out and invest it in stocks and bonds and do all the things that most people would do or does he gamble it?
	Well, that's a good question.
	I gambled some of it and then I put a lot of it away in stocks and bonds.
	I'm an accountant going into it and I went back to work.
	My intention was to not play poker and just be at work but then the whole poker boom took place and And you started getting invitations and stuff like that, right?
	Exactly.
	I got some endorsements and some appearance money and things started taking off and it just didn't make much sense to work at what I was making, what I could make in basically a week playing poker.
	Chris Moneymaker.
	Hold it right there.
	Bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	A boom boom bah In the air, in the air, so far, let me know though
	A boom boom bah Can you hear my heartbeat in this world?
	A boom boom bah You know that the heart of this world
	A boom boom bah Like the titty-sire of a melee
	A boom boom bah Make a moan
	You wasn't us, we were burnin' We were gonna go our own way
	And we never had a doubt We were born with the light
	Laying in the shadows From two and nine
	Till the morning light We were right, right, right
	We were so in love, you and me Oh, who could have won?
	Wild and free, give it all we got Ain't it fun, taking every shot
	Top to top To talk with Art Bell, call the Wildcard line at area code
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 825-825-5033.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	With Art Bell.
	My guest is Chris Moneymaker.
	He started with 40 bucks on the internet, won the 2003 World Series of Poker No Limit Hold'em Championship.
	It's quite a story, alright?
	we'll get right back to it.
	If you've never seen the poker tournaments, you're really missing something.
	You know, the Travel Channel, ESPN, others, they carry them.
	And they're incredible.
	I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars, even sometimes millions of dollars on one hand.
	And you get to see the whole cards.
	You know what the other guy's got.
	And we're thinking that accounts for the popularity of the game on television, whatever it is.
	It's dramatic.
	It's interesting.
	In fact, it's fascinating.
	It will rivet you.
	And the winner of the 2003 World Series of Pokers with us tonight in this hour.
	Next hour, by the way, Timothy Good and UFOs.
	But right now, Chris Moneymaker.
	And Chris, have you played with Fossil Man?
	Yeah, I've played with him three or four times, actually.
	Weird, weird glasses that he puts on and these little weird fossils that he keeps around is like a lucky charm.
	Is there anything that you do like, Fossil Man?
	Anything you wear or that you've done that sticks with you and you keep with you for luck?
	I wear my Oakley sunglasses basically just to hide my eyes like he does.
	Other than that, I really don't have anything that I keep with too much.
	How important are the eyes in terms of the rest of the face?
	I mean, tics and all the rest of it, the way you look, or even flaring your nostrils, whatever.
	How important are the eyes?
	Well, it's all important.
	Eyes are definitely a very important part.
	It's one of the things I look at first.
	If I can't find anything there, I go on to other places, but it's definitely important.
	Some people hide them, some people don't.
	It's an advantage to hide everything.
	You never know what's going to give something away.
	There's a big controversy about showing whole cards.
	Plenty of people think that you never, ever, ever show your cards at the end of the hand.
	Some other people do it.
	It seems like just for Well, I don't know.
	What's your view on that?
	Do you show sometimes or not, and not ever?
	I show, but usually I show for a reason.
	If I'm showing you my hand, I'm trying to either upset you and get you on what's called tilt, put you to where you want to come at me, or to show you that I'm raising with only quality hands to show you that I'm not just trying to steal.
	It depends on the situation.
	Most of the times I don't show, though.
	Tilt.
	Tilt.
	That's such an interesting word, and also the title of a new ESPN.
	Have you been watching Tilt on ESPN?
	Unfortunately, I'm not around to watch too much TV.
	I've heard it's a different show.
	Yes.
	I haven't had a chance to watch it.
	Yes, it's different, alright.
	At any rate, the whole subject of Tilt is interesting.
	Tilt means, I guess, when a player He begins making moves because they're upset, they're angry, something's been done to them, and they go berserk.
	That's tilt, when they start betting where they shouldn't, doing stuff like that, right?
	That's what tilt is.
	Yeah, that's a good explanation.
	Have you ever been tilted?
	Oh, of course.
	If you're a poker player, you've been tilted.
	I try to control it better now than what I used to, but it happens to everybody.
	And when it happens, are you then placing bets just for revenge, or how does it affect you?
	Usually you just make bad decisions.
	I mean, in one hand that you would normally fold, you raise with, and you would call off all your chips when you shouldn't be in the hand.
	I mean, it affects you a lot of different ways.
	Usually if I know I'm going on tilt, I try to walk around for a while and Cool off for at least five minutes.
	It's better to lose a couple blinds and miss a couple hands rather than, you know, throw all of your chips away because you're mad.
	Uh-huh.
	So you'll sacrifice.
	And when you do, when you get up and you walk away, you do miss.
	I mean, you've got to still contribute whatever the blind is, right?
	Oh, definitely.
	You're sacrificing blinds.
	So in a big game, you might not have that opportunity.
	In a big game, you still have the opportunity.
	Usually in big games, the blinds are not overly, I mean, Some of the bigger games are 25-50, no limit, where you might lose 75 bucks or 150 bucks, which in that game is not that huge of a game.
	Huge amount to lose.
	So you're that well-controlled that you'd miss a couple just to sort of gather yourself back together again.
	Well, it's not that well-controlled, it's that I've learned my lesson a couple times.
	I know to get up and walk around for a little while.
	Do you have anybody that's generally watching you and can tell you when you're beginning to tilt?
	Not really.
	My fiance and my father both watch me when I play, but they watch me more for just entertainment value than anything else.
	No one really watches me to watch me.
	How do you feel about, at a poker table, sometimes there will be one person who will just talk your ear off.
	I mean, you're trying to concentrate and do whatever you do.
	Mentally, and some guy is just rattling away, talking about everything that happens at the table and a lot that doesn't.
	How do you feel about that?
	It depends on the game.
	If it's a lower game or not such a serious game, I'll sit there and I'll rat it back with him.
	I like talking to people anyway, so I enjoy the conversation.
	But if it's a really big tournament or, you know, a really big cash game, I'll usually just sort of tune them out and just stare at, you know, try to pick up my toes and play the game.
	Most of the time they get the head that you're watching the game and they usually go quiet.
	Do you ever talk to guys to ruin their concentration?
	If I know it's going to help, yeah.
	Whatever does it?
	It does help, yeah.
	It all depends on the person.
	Use every little trick in the book you can to get someone off their game.
	You've been called by those... I did a little internet search on you.
	A number of people have written stories about you, and they all seem impressed with how much of a gentleman you are after the game.
	Now, of course, I don't get to see that a lot on television, but when you get up from the table, you shake hands with everybody.
	I might add, not everybody does.
	There are some pretty poor losers, aren't there?
	I mean, there are some poor losers, and there are some very good gentlemen in the game.
	It's a great game, because I think more and more now you're seeing a lot more gentlemen in the game.
	Yes, but there are some, and they throw things around.
	I've seen things on television.
	Oh, there are definitely some poor losers.
	TV highlights that stuff, you know, when somebody gets up and throws something across the room or something like that.
	There's a lot of money at stake.
	No question about that.
	How do you feel when you won?
	I didn't even really think in.
	I was on top of the world.
	I had no idea the feat that I had accomplished.
	It didn't sink in for probably two weeks after the fact.
	Really?
	Was the IRS waiting in the wings for you to sign papers?
	No, they were waiting.
	They were waiting far back.
	They don't make you pay until April 15th of next year.
	They weren't on my doorstep waiting, but they were definitely sitting in the wings waiting on their check.
	They definitely noted you had done that?
	I don't know if they did or not.
	I went ahead and paid them before they even asked.
	I just thought it was best if I didn't ever get on their bad side.
	That probably amounts to, what, about 38, 40 percent of 2.5 million?
	Thanks to George W. Bush, it went down to 33 percent.
	33?
	Oh, that is better.
	Yes.
	And that is, thank you to President Bush.
	Stu Unger, you know that name, of course.
	Three-time World Series poker champion, but in the end, Stu was definitely beaten by his own demons.
	And I wonder if you feel any of those demons, or can you just play poker to make a living?
	Well, as you read my book, you'll see that I had enough crutches and enough demons before I won the World Series.
	Now that I've won, I've really centered myself and I'm happy to play poker whenever the time calls, and I don't usually play.
	I'm sitting at home now.
	I'm not playing.
	I don't play on the Internet much.
	I don't really do much of anything other than just enjoy life.
	And I don't gamble on anything else anymore.
	That's interesting.
	You didn't go right back to the Internet, huh?
	I still play on the Internet.
	It's just, you know, it's not something I'd rather spend time with friends and family and just, you know, have a good time enjoying my life rather than, you know, I've got this business starting.
	So, you know, spending a lot of energy getting that going off the ground.
	What is it?
	What is your business?
	Basically, after I won, everybody wanted to put my name and likeness on garbage chips that are coming over from China.
	And that's what a lot of the other people have done, and I decided I didn't want to do that.
	So I decided the best way to do it was to create my own line of chips, and we created a high-end, casino-quality chip that no one else can do.
	We actually went out and found one of the manufacturers that does it.
	There's only five that do it.
	We got one of the five to do it for us.
	And so we created high-end chips, and We also went out and we're getting licenses from some big names.
	We've got Rusty Wallace, we've got Playboy, and we've got Vita, which is a girl from Max.
	And then we've got Death Row Records as well, and we're working on several others right now.
	So these are the kinds of things a poker champion does to capitalize on the celebrity, I guess, right?
	Yeah, you know, it's something that you utilize to make some money.
	Not have to earn it on the table.
	Alright, well look, a lot of people, and a lot of probably the people that were sitting with you at that final table, said it was luck.
	Now, all pokers, to some degree luck, we'll talk about that, but I mean, the fact that you coming out of nowhere could just eat the lunches of these guys who...
	They're terrors, they're incredible, and for you to come along and just do that to them, luck?
	There's definitely luck involved.
	I mean, I think I'm a decent player, a good player, but there's definitely people in that tournament that are better than me.
	They've been playing a lot longer than I have.
	I was learning on the fly.
	I think I played well, but I definitely got lucky.
	You see, you give people like us hope, you know?
	People like myself.
	I know.
	How good did you think you were when you finally got to play?
	I thought I was in the top 40% probably.
	I think if you're in the top 30-40% you have a chance to win.
	I was sitting across from a guy for two days, Chris Gordon, and he wore a hat that said anyone can win.
	And I just kept using that as my mantra the whole way through.
	Anyone can win.
	And did you remain as aggressive?
	And by aggressive, folks, we mean even if you're sitting there with, you know, seven and a two or something, you still come roaring out with $100,000 or something crazy that makes everybody gulp five times.
	Did you stay that, were you that aggressive straight through, or did a lot of switch up?
	Oh, tons of switch up.
	The very beginning, the first two days actually, I was probably the least aggressive anybody in the whole tournament.
	I just wanted to last as long as I could.
	That was my sole purpose, was to stay in there as long as I could.
	And I didn't really mix it up very much for the first two days.
	I kept making money because I had good hands.
	It's not until the third day that I really started being aggressive.
	I didn't change gears much until the third day, then I started going real fast and then real slow, then back fast again.
	Uh huh.
	It must be, well let me ask, is it just a way to make a living, or is it like, when you win, whether it's just on a daily basis or even the big one that you won, is it like a high, almost like a drug high or something when you win?
	There must be some of that.
	Oh, there's definitely a adrenaline flow, a high when you win.
	Even today, when you win a big tournament or even a small tournament, there's definitely a big high, just a sense of accomplishment.
	But then again, it's a job now, so the high is not what it was when I won the World Series.
	My adrenaline was running so hard I didn't even know what I did, but now it's more controlled.
	Yeah, but man, of all people, I mean, you were an accountant, and an accountant works with numbers.
	I guess it wasn't boring for you, but you're working with numbers all the time, so you sort of understand numbers, right?
	That's your business.
	You're into numbers.
	You're an accountant, and I don't know how in the hell you get from an accountant to wagering hundreds of thousands at a poker table.
	Somehow that doesn't translate, or if it does, how does it translate?
	Oh, you're right in the first part.
	My accounting job was pretty boring.
	Most accountants don't have a propensity or a desire to gamble.
	Exactly.
	I just was your unusual accountant.
	I grew up playing blackjack and hustling pool and playing sports and things like that.
	And that was something I was always drawn to.
	So I was sort of, I guess, a different, you know, I didn't want to be an accountant going through school.
	I changed midway through college.
	And if I was something that was easy, I could just make some money at it.
	Have you had the opportunity to meet Amarillo Slim?
	I have actually met him a couple times.
	The guy is crazy.
	I interviewed him, and this guy over his lifetime, Chris, has bet... I mean, he'll bet on how to get a cat to hold on to something.
	Anything in the world this guy will bet on.
	Is there much of that in you?
	I mean, not just poker.
	Have you been a gambling guy all through your accounting career?
	Yeah, all the way up until when I won, and probably a year after I won.
	Now, not much anymore.
	I mean, I used to bet You know, what time the sun would come up, it didn't matter.
	I mean, I could bet on anything, but anymore, I don't do that.
	It's just, you know, I play poker now, so.
	Uh-huh.
	It sounds like you've sort of, well, in other words, you gamble on anything, and now that you've hit the big one, you've retreated into sort of the higher world of the bigger-name poker players.
	Is that right?
	Well, I just, I have money now, and I don't want to Risk it, you know, unless it's doing what I'm very comfortable doing.
	Uh-huh.
	You know, a lot of things are, the odds aren't exactly with you.
	And Emeril Flynn is so good because when he gambles on things, he always has the odds in his favor.
	So in other words, since the big win, you've become far more conservative.
	Definitely.
	Yeah, I guess they say that happens to people as they get older, you know, they tend to become conservatives as they get something.
	And see, that's got to affect your play a little bit.
	Oh, it has.
	My plays definitely slowed down.
	It could be for the worse.
	I think I'm a better player now than when I was, but I know in situations I won't take as many chances as I once did.
	Isn't that interesting.
	Does that take the edge off it a little bit for you, do you think?
	A little bit.
	I've been, the last couple of tournaments I've done well and I'm sort of getting back to taking a few more chances.
	What people would consider bad play is Not exactly.
	You know, it's what I'm starting to do again a little bit more and take some more chances and push the action a little bit.
	You're going to run into the other room and take your Gus Hansen injection?
	Pardon?
	You're going to run into the other room and take a Gus Hansen injection?
	Exactly, yeah.
	You've got to, you know, grow a pair, basically.
	Man, that's what it takes, too, is a pair when it really gets down to it.
	And when you really do know that it's down to the end, it's just you and Who was it with you at the end?
	Sam Fall.
	That's right.
	You and Sam.
	It's right down to you and Sam.
	My God, the size of the bets.
	And sometimes on TV, it looks like you guys are just so tired of playing poker.
	It's been going on so many days.
	It's been relentless at the final table.
	It's almost like you're willing to bet, you know, don't let this go on and on and on.
	Let's get it over with.
	Go ahead.
	Make a bet.
	I think we finished like 3 a.m.
	I was so dead by the time we were done, I didn't want to see cards for a month.
	Really?
	Yeah, it was miserable, finishing up.
	Alright, where can people get your book?
	It's called Poker Champion Moneymaker.
	You can get it online at Amazon, or you can get it at Barnes & Noble.
	Any major bookstore should have it now.
	My website, MoneymakerGaming.com, will have it soon.
	We haven't put the link to it yet, but there's a lot of different places.
	Generally, any bookstore you walk into will have it now.
	I haven't read it yet, Chris, but let me ask you this.
	If somebody who's sort of interested in all of this right now, and they're watching on TV, and maybe they played a little Internet Texas Hold'em, could they buy this book, Chris?
	And after reading it, maybe, would it teach them enough to go make a stab at it themselves?
	It'll help.
	I mean, basically what it is, it just tells my story and sort of gives a play-by-play throughout the main event that I won, sort of what I was thinking in certain key hands and basically where I came from and how I got into the World Series and a little bit of what I've done since.
	And the thinking process of what was going through my mind during some of these hands, it will help some, yeah.
	So there is a lot of that.
	It's more of an entertainment read than anything else.
	Everybody that's read it says it's a really quick read, and a very fun read.
	Well, I did read the first few pages, and it looks absolutely fascinating, so I wish you well with the book, and are we going to see you at another final table soon?
	You should.
	I just finished, I got a fifth place in one.
	I don't know if it's going to be on TV or not.
	I don't know if it's going to be effective for networking or not, but then I'll be playing it three or four more coming up here soon.
	All right, Chris, take care, buddy.
	All right, thank you.
	See you later.
	Chris Moneymaker won the 2003 World Series poker from the high desert in the middle of the night.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	coming up in a moment the world of ufology and Timothy Good.
	I'm going to be talking about the world of ufology.
	I'm going to be talking about the world of ufology.
	Some of them want to use you.
	Some of them want to get used by you.
	Some of them...
	I'm going to be talking about the world of ufology.
	you you
	Be it sight, sound, smell or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memories whole?
	And they used her to help us to find Fly, fly like she's on
	Take this place, off this trip Just for me
	Fly, take a pillow Take my hand, up I say
	It's for free Wanna take a ride?
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll free 800-825-5033.
	From west to the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	A page in ufology is about to be turned.
	More ways than one.
	Coming this Thursday, the ABC Television Network will do a two-hour special with Peter Jennings.
	That'll begin at 8 o'clock, and all of you out there who have DVRs, you want to enter that very quickly so that you don't miss it.
	Tapes set and all the rest of it.
	Two hours on UFOs on ABC Nationwide Prime Time.
	It's about time, don't you think?
	That is the subject we will engage in now on Coast.
	Timothy Good, ...has conducted worldwide research on the UFO phenomenon, including interviewing key witnesses and discussing the subject with astronauts, military and intelligence specialists, pilots, politicians, scientists, has lectured at universities, schools, at many organizations, and has even been invited for discussions at the Pentagon in 1998 and at the headquarters of the French Air Force in 2002.
	He has acted as consultant for several U.S.
	congressional investigations.
	He's born in London.
	In fact, he's in London now.
	Timothy Goode gained a scholarship as a violinist to the Royal Academy of Music, where he won prizes for solo, chamber, and orchestral playing.
	He played for 14 years with the London Symphony Orchestra.
	He is also freelanced as a session player for television, dramas, commercials, feature films, and recordings with pop musicians.
	For example, Phil Collins, George Harrison, Elton John, Paul McCartney, and Rod Stewart, and even you too.
	So, my God, what a background for somebody into ufology.
	coming up in a moment timothy good
	the the
	the The who's who of ufology definitely was visited by ABC television for this forthcoming documentary, and certainly the name Timothy Goode is smack dab in the middle of all of that, so I suspect they probably reached out to you, Timothy, one way or the other.
	Did you speak to ABC?
	Yes, I spoke to One of the researchers who just asked my opinion and if I could put them in touch with certain key witnesses and things like that.
	Yes.
	I think I just helped them with one case actually, so that was the extent of my involvement.
	Well, they spent two days with me, Timothy.
	Two days here at my home.
	Great.
	Pretty incredible.
	It'll be about 30 seconds probably on TV.
	Anyway, the really important thing here is that it is going to be a two-hour Big network, ABC primetime documentary on UFOs.
	And the big question on everybody's mind, Timothy, even my mind, you never know what television is going to do.
	It's being billed, you heard the ad for it run a minute ago, it's being billed as a serious investigative piece on ufology.
	Any idea?
	Do you know how it's going to come out?
	How they're going to treat it?
	Do you have any sense?
	I know nothing other than their press release art, I'm afraid.
	But who knows?
	If you recall, way back in the late 1980s, do you remember UFO Cover-Up Live, which was, I think, a two-hour production airing in Moscow and Washington simultaneously?
	And there was quite a bit of material forthcoming from some retired military guys, if you recall.
	Yes.
	and we had the condor and falcon episode and everything so who knows, I suspect however it will be
	far more conventional than that and a serious
	for once journalistic attempt to get at the fact I hope you're correct
	How in the world did you first become interested in the world of
	ufology?
	It doesn't seem, from the background of being a violinist, it just doesn't mix somehow, yet it did.
	Right.
	Well, I've always been passionate about aircraft and space travel art, so it was a natural progression, particularly when in 1955, that's 50 years ago, I was given a book, The Flying Saucers Are Real, Written by Major Donald Kehoe, of course, and this was given to me by an American cousin who said, Timothy, you know, you like airplanes and stuff.
	It's time you learned about flying saucers.
	So that is really where the interest was stimulated, and I haven't looked back since.
	All right.
	In America, around the world, we have had many very, very credible sightings by pilots.
	Exactly.
	How many, roughly?
	Well, according to Dr. Dick Haynes, Richard Haynes, who runs the National Reporting Center for Anomalous Phenomena, NARCAP, he thinks there's been about 3,400, and that might have increased by now, since 1920.
	That's a lot.
	It's a great deal, and I think there's probably been a great deal more because many pilots do not report Their sightings, civilian pilots don't report them for fear.
	It's a bad career move, particularly if they're in a major airline.
	We found that out.
	And there are in fact, regulation orders, procedure orders that were published in America way back in the 1950s for the reporting of these things, and the press was to be avoided.
	But as far as the military is concerned, of course, there are strict regulations and many, many encounters are Remain classified at an above top secret level in the interest of national security.
	And I can understand that because, as General Chidlaw said many years ago, and he was head of Air Defense Command at one time, we've lost many men and planes trying to intercept these objects.
	And that is a fact.
	And I think that's quite disturbing.
	They've also been disturbing near collisions with airliners as well as military aircraft and uh... this would be disturbing if if if all the facts were known but i think we have a it's a particularly disturbing in view of the fact that the united states government uh... just simply dismisses ufos and i think they've said they're not a threat to national security and so they don't chase them well they do and people say to me you know tim why
	If these things are so super technologically advanced and they've got presumably very adequate means of protecting themselves, why do we continue to send jets up chasing them?
	My answer to that is that we require as much data from these crafters as possible.
	We need gun camera film.
	We need radar signatures.
	We need communication signatures.
	We need all sorts of things across the spectrum.
	To check and double-check against previous experiences, just how near we can get to these things, what the effects are, and we can learn a great deal more about their technology.
	Well, Timothy, you mentioned gun cameras.
	It seems to me that through all the years, we should have gun camera footage.
	We do.
	And we do have.
	We have a lot of it.
	Most of it's being withheld.
	I spoke to a senior official in the Ministry of Defence.
	This is before Nick Pope, by the way, one of Nick Pope's predecessors.
	Nick headed the UFO desk at the Ministry of Defence from 1991 to 1994.
	But back 20 years prior to that, Ralph Noyes headed the same department, and he told me that part of his briefing was to be shown and that we've done camera clips of of ufos and he he
	thought he said they weren't absolutely sensational by any means but uh...
	these are things that you know have either been lost
	conveniently or destroyed or just just completely withheld in the interest of of security
	timothy speaking of security uh... i'm in america where we still have the first
	You're in Britain, though, where there's different kinds of laws with regard to disclosure of secret things.
	Isn't that right?
	Yes.
	Generally speaking, records are withheld.
	Certainly military records and others are withheld typically for 30 years, but often to 50 years, sometimes 100 years, and sometimes some things never get released at all.
	A classic example is that in the last few years, we've had some top secret documents relating to Britain's, the British government's Flying Saucer Working Party, as it was called, which was established in 1950 under Prime Minister Clement Attlee.
	And those were only released in 2002, because they date back to the early 1950s.
	In fact, they were released, I think, 2001.
	And there's still things being withheld.
	And we do now have a Freedom of Information Act.
	Now, you've had one for some, what, 35 years?
	A long time, yes.
	I guess.
	Well, this was passed by Act of Parliament, and it's now in place.
	As of January the 1st, 2005, and the Ministry of Defense anticipating that the cranky ufologists would be bombarding them with requests for all the UFO data.
	They have big bonfires or what?
	Spent months, if not years, actually weeding out tons of stuff and dishing it out so that this would sort of preempt all the inquiries from us guys.
	And a lot of stuff has been released.
	Nick Pope tells me that most of it's innocuous, but it has actually generated a tremendous amount of interest in the press, more than any other aspect of the Freedom of Information Act.
	And just last month, there were huge articles, you know, in the Times, the Telegraph, the Financial Times, the Independent.
	Those are our main newspapers and some of the smaller papers, local papers, but tremendous
	interest and there was a huge article by Nick on the release of these things.
	Interestingly, those who are determined still to debunk everything, such as the Times, they
	had an editorial.
	First of all, there was an article in the Times which ignored all the really good reports
	by RAF people, the good reports, impressive reports by pilots and other military officers,
	which really are quite startling cases.
	It ignored those and concentrated on the lights in the sky and the balloons and the kites and said how Britain's X-Files said that UFOs were just a waste of time.
	That was the headline.
	And the editorial actually said, pie in the sky, flying saucers are close encounters with the human imagination.
	Well, you know, that really got me going, and I fired off an email to the Times editorial, but it was never published, of course.
	Oh, really?
	Mm-hmm.
	A lot of interest, and as I say, in the UFO aspect of the Freedom of Information Act more than anything else.
	Do you think that the United States government and your government are hand-in-hand on the whole UFO thing?
	Up to a point, Art.
	What I think happened is that since the late 1940s, the CIA came across to Britain and chatted with intelligence counterparts over here, Air Force people as well, and they, I think, suggested that we play down the really good sightings.
	I'm sure of this because the Flying Saucer Working Party seems to have had a remit to debunk Especially the best sightings, like in 1950, in August 1950, there was a low-level sighting at the Farnborough Air Base, where a lot of test pilots were based.
	This thing came over at low level, an actual craft, accompanied by hissing and crackling sounds.
	It was seen by one of their top pilots.
	Other personnel and the thing was repeated at a further distance in the following about three weeks later, seen by many test pilots.
	And those that were interviewed were told not to discuss it with anyone, not even among themselves.
	And the whole thing was debunked.
	And you can see that in the reports where they say, you know, the poor chap, obviously, he was just they were just seeing conventional aircraft.
	I mean, you know, and they were absolutely outraged when these reports came out a few years ago.
	Well, that certainly sounds like the good old USA to me.
	Definitely, in my opinion.
	Why do you think, Timothy, that our mutual good friends, the French, appear to be so much more open, and they really do, about ufology?
	Why?
	Well, it's not that they don't have difficulties there, believe me.
	I've spoken to officials, military and otherwise, and they are Very concerned about ridicule because, you know, even in the French Ministry of Defense, there's mixed views about the subject and there's a need to know and all that sort of thing.
	So most people don't actually know what's going on and they tend to ridicule those who take a serious interest in it.
	But they are more open.
	It's true.
	I mean, they have this group, CEPRA, is the acronym and uh... they still investigate cases and
	other but the real work is still done behind the scenes as in as in other
	countries uh... so it's not not as if it's the sort of total
	disclosure uh... in front of my if you were to look around at various countries
	of the world including brazil japan and i mean just all around the world uh...
	south africa what country do you think is the most open about ufo incidents
	well in recent years i would say russia Russia?
	Yeah.
	There's a great deal of stuff that has come out there from, you know, high-ranking generals have come forward.
	They've appeared in several documentaries, including in the excellent Out of the Blue and documentaries, other documentaries that I've been involved with.
	And it's quite amazing.
	Some of these people have come forward.
	And Gorbachev, as you know, has come out with several statements acknowledging that he discussed the extraterrestrial threat with President Reagan at the Geneva Summit in 1985.
	As a theoretical question, or something beyond theoretical?
	I wish I knew.
	Because, you know, he didn't exactly pass it off.
	He said, you know, the United States President and I discussed the question of an extraterrestrial threat and agreed that in the event of an invasion, the Soviet Union and the United States would join forces to repel such an invasion.
	And he went on to add, you know, I don't dispute the hypothesis, but I think it's too early yet to worry about such a possibility.
	But you believe we had an agreement with the then Soviets to join forces in the case of an invasion?
	I think it's likely.
	Wow.
	That's pretty interesting.
	I know that President Reagan, of course, made several statements alluding to the possibility that there could be others.
	There could even be a mutual threat.
	I recall his saying that and the shock it brought on when he did.
	Yes.
	Well, of course, his interest goes back to 1974, if not earlier, when he was governor of California because there was a UFO sighting while he was flying in the governor's plane and he ordered the pilot to chase it.
	Of course, they couldn't get anywhere near it, but it created a lot of excitement and there was actually a Wall Street journalist on board the plane and Reagan was all excited because I think he'd had a previous sighting and he talked about his great interest in the subject and so forth.
	And I think in that very important speech before the United Nations General Assembly in 1987, I think it was September 1987, he says, you know, I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish.
	Do you believe that a U.S.
	threat and get i ask is not an alien force among us
	he went on quickly to add you know what could be more alien uh... you know that
	war in the threat of nuclear war and so on but i think he was trying to tell us
	something i'm absolutely convinced of it do you believe that a u s president or
	even brought the british prime minister can take office and on their first day uh... tell their aid look
	uh... here i am I want everything on my desk that we know about UFOs, and I want it there in the morning.
	They can try.
	President Clinton tried.
	He didn't get anywhere fast, that's for sure.
	Do you really know that?
	I mean, maybe he did find out everything, and maybe that everything included, you know, not informing the American people for the following reasons.
	That may be the case, Art.
	I honestly don't know.
	I suspect he was not told everything.
	Well, last Sunday we repeated a program I did with John Lear, who took me through what's called Lear Test.
	He went through this long litany of, listen, here are the things.
	Could you tell the public the following?
	And he named off about 25 things that obviously you could never, ever tell the American public and have a shred of credibility left.
	Absolutely true.
	I wholeheartedly agree.
	I don't know all the reasons for the cover-up, Art, but I suspect that some of the reasons would be disturbing to the body politic, as it's often been said, and to society in general.
	It's much better just to let the facts leak out gradually.
	All right, Timothy, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	My guest from London, England, is Timothy Goode.
	On a Saturday night, Sunday morning for some of you, this is Coast to Coast AM, doing what it does best, in the
	darkness.
	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	♪♪♪♪ ♪♪♪♪
	Don't you love her badly?
	Don't you need her badly?
	Don't you love her ways?
	Tell me what you say.
	Don't you love her badly?
	Wanna meet her daddy?
	Don't you love her face?
	Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
	Like she did one thousand times before Don't you love her ways?
	Tell me what you say Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
	All your love All your love
	All your love All your love
	All your love is gone It's a single lonely song
	Of a deep blue dream Seven horses seem to be on the moon
	Do talk with Art Bell. Call the wildcard line at area code 7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Actually, I think seven horses are galloping.
	Good morning, everybody.
	But we are, you know, being visited.
	You don't really question that, do you?
	They are up there.
	I know.
	I had one right above my head.
	It's kind of hard to deny when that happens to you.
	We'll be right back.
	Thanks for watching.
	Sure is interesting.
	Timothy Goode just suggested that it's a trickle-down sort of slow release policy regarding this information that absolutely couldn't be released en masse.
	It just couldn't.
	It would upset the, you know, the whole world would go on tilt.
	And so I've wondered a little bit over the years, and I've been doing this for a lot of years now, folks, Whether I could actually be part of that process, an unwitting dupe, as it were, trickling out information that the government wants trickled out.
	Of course, that would make many other people, including the ABC television network, part of that process.
	Timothy, have you ever wondered if you were part of that process?
	Oh yes, indeed.
	In fact, I have the last chapter of my last book, and I'm going to send you my last book, Unearthly Disclosure Art.
	I don't know if you have it.
	I do not, and I would love it, and moreover, if you could sign it, I would love it.
	Absolutely.
	In the last chapter, which is entitled Resident Aliens, I disclose information which has come to me via a high-ranking source who worked at the Pentagon and the U.S.
	Air Force Air Staff and Joint Staff.
	And this information was given to a friend of mine, an ex Army intelligence guy, who's a journalist in the aerospace world.
	Between 1986 and 1989, he was given a great deal of information about what was actually going on.
	And I'm quite sure this was part of an official How much of that can you relate here?
	Oh, there's tons of it.
	I mean, what do you want to know about the bases?
	I mean, I've been told, for example, aliens have been coming to Earth for a very long time.
	They've established permanent bases here in Australia, the Caribbean, Pacific Ocean, Soviet Union, and in the United States, and specific locations are given in some cases.
	Now, that's just for starters, but Obviously, there is an amount of disinformation, and the question is, how does one sort the wheat from the chaff?
	How do you?
	There's a great deal of information.
	We've apparently, some military and scientific elements in the intelligence community have established communication with ETs.
	There has been a transfer of their technology.
	We are working on it.
	Well, let's be clear on this, Timothy.
	I asked you the question about the President for a reason.
	You know, whether he could demand everything that we know about UFOs and get it.
	Of course, we can't know the answer to that, but I guess the bigger question is, Timothy, is it your opinion that there's a group outside of elected government, government's knowledge, that... Absolutely.
	Sort of a majestic twelve, or its equivalent?
	Or its equivalent.
	But of course, what I was told that For example, at least a hundred people in OSI, which is the Air Force Intelligence Office of Special Investigations, there are at least a hundred people, I'm going back again to 1986-1989, because that's when this information was given, there were at least a hundred people in OSI who had knowledge in varying degrees about the extraterrestrial presence and were actually dealing with it.
	When I was in the Pentagon in 1998 at the invitation of General Kenneth Israel, who was then Director of the Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office, as it was then called.
	They, at that time, handled the unmanned spy planes, the UAVs, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.
	He indicated to me that, in his opinion, this was more a policing task.
	As opposed to national security, and he therefore suggested to me, or hinted, that OSI was much more likely to be in charge of the investigations.
	A policing task?
	That was his opinion.
	As in?
	Make of that what you will.
	As in cleaning up?
	As in, you know, sanitizing some incident?
	Well, OSI has all sorts of tasks, you know, other than some of the more obvious ones.
	I mean, they're into counterintelligence, they're into investigations, they're into
	problems with people violating their national security oaths and things like that.
	So I think it's interesting from that point of view, but I was given a great deal of information,
	really, and you'll learn that in that last chapter.
	And there are concerns about what the aliens are doing.
	It's not a question.
	I'm told of one species coming here.
	There are several.
	And more important, there appears to be a conflict of interest between some of these beings.
	regarding regarding our planet alright uh... can you describe uh... the various
	motivations of these groups and if you if you understand there are conflicts
	then that would imply we understand something of the motivations
	well i can only speak uh...
	very broadly here are uh... there there's definitely several races
	I mean, goodness knows, I wouldn't put a number on it, you know, as to who's been coming here and for what purpose over the years, because it's been going on for thousands of years.
	But from what I gather, some of them definitely have a vested interest in this planet and its resources.
	And there is concern about the abduction process.
	Which it is believed by them that it is definitely related to some sort of hybridization program.
	I'm sorry, are the resources of this planet oil and metals and that sort of thing?
	Or are they more likely the human occupants of Earth?
	I think more likely the human occupants.
	They appear to need animal materials as well, some of them.
	I do think there could be an interest in some of our materials and minerals here.
	Some of them have suggested that.
	Some people who've established communication with humans have established that they need stuff here.
	And there appear to be a number of very large undersea bases which are causing disturbances.
	Now, as it was put to me, you know, they're concerned The fact that some of the aliens are, quote, messing around with tectonic plates in the Pacific Ocean.
	Now, that opens all sorts of cans of worms, I think recent events might suggest.
	I'm not suggesting for one moment that the tsunami had anything to do with aliens, but I'm just saying that apparently, according to this source, some aliens are messing around with tectonic plates and they have some large undersea bases.
	Now, why are they doing that?
	I don't know.
	Yes, Timothy, but a natural inference from that statement would be that there could be a connection between the tsunami and messing around with the Pacific's tectonic plates.
	There could be.
	There could be.
	Or they might even be messing around with the tectonic plates for their own purposes, to protect their bases or to protect the Earth.
	You know, that's the good news.
	I mean, there's always good news and bad news.
	You know, whatever threat is posed by aliens, we have to look at the positive side of things.
	The fact that they've shown their ability to paralyze our nuclear missile bases at the drop of a hat.
	They have shown that too, haven't they?
	Yes.
	Would you please explain to the audience a couple of instances where that occurred?
	This is pretty heavy stuff, folks.
	It's undeniable.
	We've seen specials on television about what you're about to hear about, and it seems undeniable.
	Timothy, how good is the evidence that this really happened, and what happened, and when?
	Well, there have been numerous witnesses who've come forward.
	Robert Sallis, for one.
	I haven't got the book to hand.
	I've just received a new book by Robert Sallis and another author about those extraordinary events, which is very impressive.
	During the next break, I'll go and get it, because I would You know, I really want to plug that book because I'm most impressed by what I read of it.
	The bottom line is, if I recall correctly, the U.S.
	had a couple of missile launches.
	They had intrusions.
	There have been numerous intrusions.
	At nuclear missile sites in North Dakota, all over.
	Actually, they were disabled, I believe.
	They were disabled, yes, and it happened in the Soviet Union, too, in the former Soviet Union.
	And I'm recalling this TV special in which some ICBMs in Russia actually went into a launch sequence.
	Is that true?
	I vaguely recall that, but I can't confirm that.
	Okay.
	Did the U.S.
	military capture an alien spacecraft before Roswell?
	Well, you know, last year and continuing now, I've been investigating an extraordinary case reported, it goes back to August of 1945, when in San Antonio, not Texas, San Antonio, New Mexico, which is not that far from the White Sands Missile Range.
	Right.
	Two boys encountered an apparent crashed craft on one of the boy's father's ranches.
	Jose Padilla was one of the boys and it was his father's ranch.
	And the other witness was Remy Baca.
	And I went out to meet them in June.
	At least I met Remy.
	I have not met Jose yet, but we've been in communication.
	It's an extraordinary story.
	They were quite alarmed by the incident.
	They claimed to have seen a large area in this canyon where this craft had come down and a gouge in the earth the size as long as a football field.
	It was vaguely circular with a sort of type of fin on top, but nothing like an aircraft fin.
	They'd made a model of it.
	I've seen it.
	And they headed back, worried about casualties and so forth.
	Because they actually, they'd seen, when they got as close as they dared, some sort of strange-looking creatures moving around inside it, like children.
	And they had no hair on.
	They couldn't see much more detail than that.
	And they went back and told Padilla Sr., who told the police, and they all drove toward the crash site two days later, but the wreckage was nowhere to be seen.
	But suddenly, it reappeared.
	It had been, apparently someone had made an attempt to cover it up with dirt and debris.
	And then later on the craft, I'm cutting a long story short here, the craft was apparently recovered and the boys at several stages got a chance to witness these things from a hidden area and this thing was loaded onto a tall boy.
	And as I say, they were watching from this secluded position and soldiers were throwing bits down a crevice so they wouldn't have to carry them all the way down.
	It rings true in a way.
	A lot of information forthcoming.
	One of the boys, the elder boy, Jose Padilla, at one stage, when the craft was unguarded, clambered inside a gouge in the opening and on a sort of area there, he managed to extract a device.
	Now, I have seen that device and handled it and photographed it.
	Really?
	The unfortunate thing is, and as I refer to it as the fly in the ointment, is that it does look very, very conventional.
	It looks like some kind of bracket with space provisions for fasteners or screws or whatever.
	It's about 11 inches long.
	It has been analysed and it does appear to be conventional aluminium.
	So that's a problem, but on the other hand, Um, you know, we have, we have the testimony of, of these two witnesses, and they're absolutely adamant that this thing, this thing did event.
	So what, there is this contradiction, which, which I'm left with.
	And, um, it is a stumbling block for me, I have to say.
	What about Roswell itself, Timothy?
	Roswell happened.
	It, it, it happened.
	I mean... Roswell happened.
	Just straight out.
	It really... I mean, all the testimony, Sworn affidavits from all those high-ranking people.
	You know, we have DuBose, who's often overlooked.
	General DuBose, who said that the cover-up was ordered by General Clements McMullen at the time.
	And there were very, very good reasons.
	They said, look, you know, we've just been through a world war with atomic bombs on Japan.
	Firebombing of great cities, destruction on an unprecedented, worldwide scale.
	Then came this flying saucer business, and it was simply too much for the public to have to deal with.
	Was Roswell the beginning?
	And sometime between Roswell and now, when did our governments, respectively, recognize, meet, even make deals with Some of these preachers, and did that in fact happen?
	I'm sure you believe it.
	I think it did happen.
	I don't know about a deal, but I think we certainly, there was an exchange of information.
	There was a survivor.
	By all accounts, I'm not the only person to... Dr. Edgar Mitchell, sixth man to walk on the moon, has also established very good contacts in the military and intelligence communities, and he's also been told that there was a survivor who lasted a certain number of years.
	And I believe that.
	I think official interest began well before Roswell, certainly during World War II, because all these pilots were reporting these things, not just Foo Fighters.
	Do you think there's been official contact?
	When I say that, I mean, I guess more than just with a crash victim, for example.
	Has there been some sort of communication between species?
	I think so.
	I'm bearing in mind the story about President Eisenhower in 1954 at what was then Muroc, later Edwards Air Force Base.
	I think there could be some truth to that story.
	And I know from people I've talked to, people say, you know, why don't they contact our government leaders, our military leaders?
	Well, I think they have done.
	But those are the people that are least likely to come out with the truth.
	Well, when you look at... Excuse me.
	That's quite alright.
	When you look at the Earth, and you talk about minerals, or you talk about, you know, what's here that's not on Mars and Venus and all the other planets that we're now discovering with Hubble and other telescopes, all these planets around, all these suns, but the unusual thing about Earth that really stands out would be us.
	Sure.
	I mean, I think Earth is unique, not just in our solar system, but maybe for light years around.
	More than the iron, more than the uranium, it would be the intelligent life on Earth.
	It seems to me that would stand out like a beacon.
	And that would account for their interest, that would be my guess anyway.
	The interest was definitely accelerated in World War II because of our nuclear developments, that's for sure.
	I wonder what the current state of understanding between ourselves and whoever else it might be is.
	Do you have clues about that?
	No, I wish I did.
	I'm trying.
	Do you have guesses about it?
	It would just be pure speculation, Art.
	I prefer to deal with what few facts we can be sure of.
	Okay.
	You know, there is a lot of conversations you have with people that probably, information comes to you that you wouldn't put on the air.
	Yes.
	And from that, I thought you might have some educated guesses.
	Yes, but before I exploded with my coughing fit, I was about to tell you of Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley, who was an acquaintance, like a kind of military attaché to the Queen and Prince Philip for seven years, back in 1954.
	And he was also deputy chief of strike command on a decorated war hero, flown 90 different types of aircraft.
	And he claims that in 1954, he had a two hour meeting with an extraterrestrial being arranged via a British Army general.
	And this took place in the middle of London, in the presence of a witness.
	And he wrote up that story in his autobiography, Sounds from Another Room.
	And he gave me additional, some additional information, which I published in, in my book, Alien Base.
	and uh... it's absolutely extraordinary and uh...
	can you uh... tell us about it
	so much information attached to that story i mean this this uh... being appeared human like he didn't say i'm an
	alien he could
	the first disturbing thing that i'd tell you what to do is talk to the hour
	Hold tight.
	When we come back, we'll have a full hour.
	Good thing about long-form talk radio. You can get into some of these things and we will
	show you some of the things that we do. So, let's get started.
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	Oh yes, when it comes to the details of a two-hour meeting with an alien being.
	Then I have time, we all have time, for some of the good details of that.
	coming right up tomorrow night uh... in the world of in the psychic world
	the real mccoy's here russell targ
	is here and
	And believe me when I tell you he's the real McCoy.
	It's going to be an interesting, very interesting Sunday and certainly is a fascinating Saturday night.
	Timothy, welcome back.
	A two-hour meeting.
	If there was a two-hour meeting, I would like to know the details of that meeting.
	I would like to know as much as I could what was said and what was answered and whatever you can tell me.
	Well, the first thing that Sir Peter noticed during this meeting was that this guy, whoever
	he was, was able to read his mind.
	And later on, Sir Peter told me, he didn't write about this in his book, but he told
	me that what disturbed him more than anything else was the fact that this guy knew all Britain's
	top secret nuclear secrets.
	And well, he began by explaining that man was now striving to sort of break his earthly
	bonds and travel to the moon and planets beyond.
	We were developing.
	But there was a dark age on earth.
	We were prepared to sacrifice almost anything, the natural environment, animals and humans.
	And there was a dreadful specter of blowing up our world.
	So they were concerned, it seems, about that.
	He went on to the origins of life in the universe, stated that most of the UFOs we see are robot controlled.
	Some are manned in order to oversee the whole program.
	And to ensure that the probes do not land or crash by accident.
	And they spoke that there have been since time immemorial observers of our planet, vessels out of the sky bringing strange visitors.
	And that contact has been established on a very selective basis, where they judge that such contact could not harm either party.
	And apparently, the They say they've studied Earth for a very long time, they have extraordinary technological abilities, very highly developed mental powers, including extrasensory thought-reading, hypnosis, and this I find particularly interesting, the ability to use different dimensions.
	As a matter of fact, I was going to ask you, somewhere down the line, that, you know, beings coming from light years and light years away seems incredible.
	Maybe it can be done, but it seems incredible.
	But if we just, you know, if we had someone come from another dimension, they would appear to us to be As alien as if they had come from another planet, and of course, you know, you just hop, skip and a jump from another dimension if you know how to do it, so... Well, the implication in this case is that these beings are related, some of them at any rate, are related to us genetically.
	What I've heard from other sources is that some of these highly advanced beings are indeed responsible for upgrading humanity Upgrading the development of human beings going way back tens of thousands of years.
	As to the dimensional aspect, I don't doubt that there are beings who exist solely in other dimensions, but the implication here is that this guy was quite physical, quite solid, but that their races are so advanced that they can manipulate dimensions.
	And I think this happens with their spacecraft.
	There's a number of intriguing accounts By people claiming contact, I say that it is a question not just of linear travel.
	I'm sure you've heard all this before, all you listeners, and you of course are, that they manipulate space-time, as Einstein called it, by folding it rather than traveling in a linear mode.
	To manipulate space-time is to manipulate a dimension, and I think this would account for their Let's jump back to something you said.
	disappearances sometime, sometimes maybe they're just going so fast in the blink
	of an eye, but I think at other times they're just translating into another
	dimension to get where they want to in maybe split seconds.
	Let's jump back to something you said. You said that we have some
	relationship to them genetically.
	Boy, that sure is one sentence that covers a lot of territory, Timothy.
	Yes, well, of course, this has been mentioned by a number of researchers going way back and... Yes, well, are they our creators?
	Well, what I understand is that they genetically upgraded the existing beings on this planet, the basic, basic Humans, when they first appeared.
	The basic creatures.
	So, there was already life existent on Earth when they arrived, and they did the upgrade?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	I mean, we were just vaguely out of the ape stage.
	So it is said.
	So it is said by a lot of contactees.
	I have a lot of reports of this in Alien Base, my book, which specializes in contact stories, and there's a marvelous story by Albert Coe.
	Who encountered an alien being and his spacecraft in Canada in 1920, and he had meetings throughout his life with this person and with one or more of these people, and I find that story very compelling.
	But that does make them our creators, though, if they upgraded us.
	Interesting phrase.
	Then they took us from what was not intelligent life and did the upgrade that made us who we are, making them our creators.
	I think to that extent you're right, yes.
	And I think this is part of a sort of colonization process, if you like.
	I think we were colonized.
	And these kinds of stories, this two-hour conversation and others, have led you to this position?
	Yes, absolutely.
	One of the most compelling contacts for me was a lady I knew for many, many, several decades, in fact.
	She's passed on now, unfortunately, but she had contact back in 1963 with several human-type extraterrestrials who were engaged in a very delicate operation which involved the use of some of our top scientists.
	Some of whom actually traveled to their bases, and they had bases, some of these people, for example, in South America.
	We've heard of a lot of recent incidents in South America, of course.
	You've looked into those?
	Yes, I have.
	I think there are probably a number of alien bases in South America and offshore.
	There's an extraordinary case of the guy Ludwig Palman, a German Businessmen who in the late 60s encountered a group of these beings and actually visited their base, which was in the jungle in the Amazon area.
	Extraordinary story.
	Well, you would think that the United States and Russia, with all these spy satellites, would be clearly on to an alien base?
	Yes.
	Well, it depends what the counterintelligence is of the aliens.
	In terms of disguising their technologies and their bases.
	So I'm quite sure they're capable of dealing with that.
	But yes, I'm quite sure.
	In fact, I'm 100% sure that some governments do actually actively use their spy satellites for trying to detect undersea and other activities on this planet.
	Yes, interestingly, the big project called HAARP, the HAARP project in Alaska, one of the stated goals of HAARP is underground tunnels and bunkers.
	They're looking for them with this wild project up in Alaska.
	Heard about that?
	I've heard about it, but I haven't gone into that in sufficient degree to be able to comment might be worth looking into on your part because
	Underground tunnels and bunkers that's very much part of what their original charge is yes, Richard Sorder
	I believe has done a great deal of work on on that I'm correct um
	It was so if we have a relation a genetic relationship to them to some of them
	some of them and then You know this this does beg questions about
	All these religions that man has on earth and these concepts of a
	creator Leading you down that path
	Well, I think it's undeniable.
	I mean, you've only got to look at the Bible.
	I mean, our reports apparently in the Hindu Vedas and the The Bible is absolutely chock full of extraordinary incidences of strange beings who mated with Earth people, who produced people who lived for many hundreds of years, apparently, if you believe it.
	I wasn't there, I don't know.
	That's all true.
	And then, you know, Ezekiel, Elijah and the Flying Chariot, all these things, descriptions of strange beings.
	And then the New Testament, I mean, Jesus, the star of Bethlehem, whatever that was, it wasn't a star, it was very specific, it pointed out a particular building.
	You have Jesus' phenomenal abilities, telepathy, levitation, healing, and the resurrection, which even the Catholic Church, I believe, acknowledges to be bodily, a physical resurrection, accompanied by shining beings, and then the reappearance to Paul, On the road to Damascus, you remember that story of the dazzling light which blinded the soldiers?
	They couldn't hear anything but Jesus spoke out of this blinding light in the sky, and so on and so forth.
	And I think the angel Gabriel might well have been... Maybe something to do with artificial insemination might explain the so-called immaculate conception.
	Well, it has to be said that so many of the modern sightings and close contact sightings seem to involve reproduction, a study of reproduction, reproductive organs, when you get stories from people who have been abducted, very frequently.
	You know, I was really surprised, Timothy, at the amount of sexual content in abduction stories when you really get down to brass tacks with abductees.
	It's remarkable.
	Definitely.
	Any guesses about what they're trying to do?
	Well, I think hybridization is the name of the game.
	The question is, is it for their benefit or ours?
	They often say, abductees say, oh, you know, they were lovely beings.
	They said, oh, it's all just for us, you know.
	All the time.
	All the time, Timothy.
	I think it's for their benefit, more likely.
	I spoke to an abductee in Puerto Rico.
	Puerto Rico is a country I visited on seven occasions.
	And I met a contactee there who claims to have been taken to an alien base within Puerto Rico.
	And he saw many different types of craft in this giant cavern within the mountains.
	And they said, you know, nothing to be afraid of.
	You know, this is something we want to help you out, and so forth, and they mentioned, I believe, hybridization, and I asked this abductee what he thought the true purpose of this hybridization process was, and he was convinced it was for their own benefit to help them to adapt to this planet.
	Well, I've interviewed many, many abductees, and the A vast majority of them, Timothy, say that these are our friends.
	These are beneficial beings who want nothing but the very best for us.
	And their treatment while being abducted was absolutely superb.
	Not a bad word to say about them, Timothy.
	But to put it crudely, their minds have been screwed with.
	So... I think so, I think so.
	So, you know, there are a very few researchers in the United States, I don't know about Great Britain, but you sound like you might be one of them, who aren't so absolutely sure these are warm, fuzzy creatures with our best interests in mind.
	Right, right.
	That would be you, then.
	Yep.
	So, if they don't have our best interests in mind, what do you think their agenda is?
	I don't know, Art.
	Honestly.
	Yeah, well that's of course, all the big questions just sort of almost can't be answered.
	The who, the what, the where, the when.
	Almost none of this can be answered.
	Now, it'll be interesting to see what sort of conclusion a large network investigation like ABC's will come up with.
	I can't wait.
	I've got little hints that they may be suggesting at the end of it all, and this is just guesstimates from the internet folks, that there needs to be a more serious investigation into all of this.
	Yes.
	That it simply has been laughed at too much, and there's some serious stuff at question here.
	At issue.
	Yes.
	So, hopefully.
	Well, if that's all they do, at the very least, that is a great step forward.
	While I remember it, may I mention this book now?
	Please.
	About the 1967 missile incident, particularly at Marstrom Air Force Base.
	It's called Faded Giant.
	And it's by Robert Salas, S-A-L-A-S, and James Klotz, K-L-O-T-Z, with a foreword by Raymond Fowler.
	It's privately published, and it is available from Arcturus Books.
	Signed copies are available from Arcturus Books.
	And I'll give you the email there.
	It's R. Girard, that's RGIRARD321 at AOL.com.
	And it's a very good book.
	They've got a lot of documents and case reports.
	All right, give us an idea of... Reproduced.
	Yes, it's the story of... It's a story specifically about the events at Marlstrom Air Force Base in 1967, when the Minutemen nuclear missiles were actually paralyzed.
	Deactivated?
	Deactivated, precisely so, yes.
	I have interviewed some of the individuals who were involved in that, and I absolutely, completely 100% believe that it occurred, and Kraft were seen, it was just... It wasn't just there, it was many, a number of strategic air command bases, where, you know, where the Minutemen were deployed.
	And, I suppose, one could... The intense interest in UFOs and the many sightings may go back into the 1920s or may even go back, I'm sure, to Biblical times.
	However, the real flap started and has never let up since, uh, what?
	Since Roswell's.
	Well, gee whiz!
	Even before Roswell.
	The atomic bomb.
	The atomic bomb.
	That must have been a real marker in time and space when we lit one off.
	Wouldn't you think?
	I would think so, definitely.
	Absolutely, definitely.
	And it would also explain the concentration of sightings in the New Mexico area as, you know, all the testimony from the military and scientific people who were summoned urgently to meetings in the 1940s, you know, about all these strange objects.
	Well, that began the age when we had the ability to destroy ourselves, to utterly destroy the capability of life continuing on this planet.
	That's what began then.
	So, any alien race monitoring us in any way would have, at that moment, taken notice.
	Do you think that's what happened?
	Yes, definitely.
	I'm not saying it's the only reason.
	But that's the reason for the acceleration of activity since World War II.
	In everything that you've heard, Timothy, about these meetings with the others, how convinced do they seem to be that we're going to blow ourselves up?
	Well, I'd always like to keep positive about that, but I like to think that they might Prevent us doing so, particularly if they have a vested interest in their own security and our nuclear weapons.
	Because it's often been said, and it was certainly said a lot in the late 40s and 50s and 60s with the contactees I've met, they were told that we don't really know quite what we're doing and that the effects of these explosions continue into the solar system.
	They don't just affect the Earth.
	Oh really?
	Apparently.
	I don't know.
	That's what they've said anyway.
	I wonder if perhaps they affect other dimensions as well.
	Exactly.
	That's another possibility that I've considered.
	Okay.
	My guest is Timothy Good.
	Stay right there, Timothy.
	Bottom of the hour.
	Timothy Goode wrote about Top Secret and so many other books, so many other books, that by now you must have heard of his name.
	Certainly if you're into ufology, you know Timothy Goode.
	If not, keep listening, and we'll expand as we go along.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM, rockin' the night away with information you just won't get anywhere else.
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	you To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	It is.
	You ever wonder about this?
	I wonder if we were the first.
	You ever wonder if we were the first?
	Maybe there were other technological civilizations.
	I mean, think about it.
	If our civilization was utterly destroyed today, how many millions or even billions of years would have to
	pass before there wouldn't be any trace of us left at all?
	My guest is Timothy Good, all the way, by the way, from Great Britain.
	So when we do get to the telephone stage of this, I want to remind the audience that even though we've got a superlatively good connection with Great Britain, there is a time differential.
	of a fraction of a second or better where you can sort of talk on top of each other if you're not very careful.
	So what I would ask, and I know a lot of you are going to have questions for Timothy, what I would ask is that you formulate your question and sort of get it out and then allow him to answer so that we don't get into a situation where we're all interrupting each other.
	That's a necessity of the transatlantic connection.
	Timothy, welcome back.
	Thank you very much.
	There has been a fairly recent January 2000 encounter between some airliners, I guess, in Dublin.
	Is there an update on that?
	Well, yes.
	It took place January the 4th of last year when pilots of a British Midland Airbus saw a flashing bright triangular object take off from the ground.
	As they were passing 3,000 feet over the Slane area, which is near Dublin.
	And they saw that this UFO, because they were on the landing pattern, they were about five or six miles behind an aircraft in front.
	The aircraft in front was approached by this large, flashing, bright, triangular object.
	And apparently, the crew experienced a power drain.
	Um, a purple glow was surrounding this, uh, it was a Boeing 737-400 series jet of Aer Lingus.
	It flew in front of the aircraft, forcing the pilots to change course to avoid a collusion.
	The jet apparently experienced wake turbulence and violent shakes, and the outside temperature rose to 164 degrees centigrade for around 15 seconds.
	Oh my God!
	grade, around 15 seconds. Oh my god. The pilots, now I haven't spoken to the pilots of the
	Aer Lingus plane yet.
	It's all been covered up.
	There's been denial at every single stage.
	Well, I was going to say that there would be a record of such a temperature rise, for example, in the aircraft's equipment.
	I'm indebted to the principal investigators, Dermot Butler and Carl Nally of Dublin.
	Carl is a pilot himself, a private pilot.
	They were the people that got the information in the first place.
	I went to Dublin in November to try and get more information.
	I haven't yet met the pilots of the Aer Lingus plane and I tried to speak to some Aer Lingus pilots on the flight over to Dublin and absolutely there was annoyance on the flight deck that I'd actually tried to get information about the case and they refused to talk to me.
	Well, I don't blame them.
	John Lear is a good friend of mine.
	He's lost at least one job because of what he said.
	I know.
	They can't talk about it.
	Yes, I know, John, too.
	You know, they have families.
	They have wives, children.
	Let me tell you that, yeah, exactly.
	The aircraft's wings were dented, badly dented.
	The air brakes malfunctioned.
	So this was an emergency situation, which was declared.
	The plane had to be taken out, and it had to be repaired by Boeing.
	And it's now been sold to Thailand, to Thai Airways.
	No kidding.
	No, that's absolutely correct.
	And this, you know, it also happened to another aircraft, another aircraft, you know, a couple of hours later on that same day.
	What is peculiar, you know, I talked about a fly in the ointment, there's always a stumbling block in cases, is that, you know, I gave an interview I don't know.
	I have no evidence of that whatsoever.
	you know we are appealing for witnesses to come forward to the people on the
	plane who are very frightened by the incident i can't believe they've all been silence on landing you
	know uh... well as they apparently been
	i don't know i have no evidence of that what forever i think it's
	peculiar that someone hasn't come forward
	but i don't doubt my sources and i don't doubt that such such events take place
	And I'd like to mention these triangles briefly.
	I think some of the listeners will be aware, those of us who sort of surf the internet, of this extraordinary case of a flying triangle seen by a witness, a musician in Bristol, Tennessee, on October 2 of last year.
	Very good case and a very good illustration of the craft as well.
	And he was nearing an intersection near his home, and exited his car to see if there was a fire, because it looked like a fire coming from between the trees and some distance away, and slowly emerged this enormous triangular-shaped craft.
	He started to run, but realized there was nowhere to run to, so he just stood in awe and watched, and it slowly came into full view, estimated at 300 feet at each side of the triangle.
	and only a hundred feet or so high, in altitude in other words, blocking out the entire sky.
	And there were large domes, as often these are seen, comparing each dome, he said, to twice the
	size of a car, illuminating the entire bottom, three of those domes at the apex of each corner
	of the triangle. And rib-like structures, and this has been reported before, I've spoken to
	several witnesses, including one in the Midlands in the 1990s, who saw a very
	You're speaking to a witness.
	This happened to me.
	from the nape.
	Well, Timothy, let me stop you just for a moment.
	You're speaking to a witness.
	This happened to me.
	In other words, Timothy, I was coming home with my wife many years ago now, and my wife
	yelled, what the hell's that?
	Or something to that effect.
	She was in the passenger seat.
	And I stopped the car.
	And we got out.
	And a black triangle, not flying, but floating, Timothy, passed not more than 150 feet above our head.
	The moon and the stars all went away.
	It was as classic as you can possibly imagine.
	It didn't make a sound.
	You could hear crickets a quarter mile away.
	It floated over our head and then continued floating toward what we call Area 51, and we're not far from here.
	But Timothy, this happened to me.
	I've done paintings and drawings of Exactly what it was like, where our car was, what the geography was like, the whole smear and what it looked like to us.
	I could have thrown a rock at the thing, except Timothy, that I was in shock.
	So you see, I've seen this myself.
	I'd love to see the, have a sketch of that.
	Oh, I have it.
	We had an artist do it for us and we did GPS readings and they came out and looked at the terrain and got everything exactly as it was.
	Exactly as it was.
	I've got a giant thing on the wall of it.
	So, I guess I'm a believer, Timothy.
	How can you not be when something that dramatic happens to you?
	But you know what?
	I don't know if it was something military.
	If it was, then we have the secret of anti-gravity, apparently.
	We have the secret of noiseless propulsion.
	We have quite a few secret... and that they would fly it right over my head.
	And here in the US, these triangles are appearing over major interstate highways.
	It's wild.
	It's wild.
	One would wonder why, if they are American devices, why they would want to They show themselves overtly, as they obviously have done on many occasions.
	Exactly.
	But at the same time, I think some, a percentage, don't ask me to put a number to it, but a percentage of these craft could well be our own.
	And that applies over here as well, because some of them have been seen near, like British Aerospace, like Wharton up in the North Country, for example.
	It's possible.
	On the other hand, it could be that, you know, these bases where we are developing all sorts of new types of aircraft are just being sort of overflown and checked out by the aliens.
	Who knows?
	And of course we have endless tales of back engineering of alien craft at that area near me, Area 51.
	Yeah.
	I don't know if that's true, but certainly if we laid our hands on technology like that, we'd do our very damn level best to Try and figure out how it worked and duplicate it.
	That would be a natural thing to do.
	Absolutely.
	No question about that.
	Do you have any witnesses of people, I don't know, people who claim to have worked on craft like this?
	Oh, yes.
	Well, I mean, you know, in my book, Alien Contact, I've got quite a number of chapters on the claims of Bob Lazar and others.
	Whereas I think there was something to that story.
	The problem is that Bob Lazar is not the nuclear physicist he claims to be.
	That's number one.
	Do you believe that he was at Area 51, that he was in fact employed to do something?
	Well, I wondered why someone who is not qualified would be sort of hired to go there.
	I think if he was there, it was more As a sort of part of a disclosure project, just to see what people would come out with.
	And he was exposed to some of it.
	Why do you think, other than Roswell, are the best cases that you would name?
	Oh my goodness me.
	There are so many.
	We have, in Great Britain, the Rendlesham Forest case, December 1980, when Many US Air Force security policemen encountered a landed craft, triangular craft.
	And this events were going on for several days.
	The deputy base commander himself, then Lieutenant Colonel Charles Holt at Woodbridge.
	These were twin Air Force bases of Woodbridge and Bentwaters himself saw some of these things.
	There were other craft seen in the skies.
	And there were traces left, Nick Pope himself was able to get hold of the radiation readings, which were certainly above normal.
	There have been all sorts of explanations and attempts to debunk it, you know, the most recent one being that it was just some US servicemen going up and down the runway with a red light on top of the vehicle.
	But that was the explanation for it.
	But you know, if this went on for several days, there were lots of witnesses involved.
	And I find it an intriguing Very important case.
	In my years of interviewing people, I had occasion to interview somebody named Travis Walton and Travis's boss.
	As a matter of fact, I interviewed as well.
	Both of them at once.
	And they told an incredibly compelling, believable story.
	Absolutely.
	I interviewed Travis Walton.
	For me, he's absolutely on the level.
	That's one of the most important contact stories.
	I thought so.
	Um, you know, just, you know, as you listen to the man, it was clear that he really had absolutely zero interest, you know, prior to this event.
	And it was just a plain man, you know, telling the truth.
	I mean, it sounded like the absolute truth.
	And of course they went through, as you know, lie detector tests, a couple of them.
	So you also found that to be a pretty Absolutely compelling case, and I think one of the most intriguing aspects of it was nothing was ever said at any time while he was on board the craft.
	He had these good-looking men and women show him around, and he would ask questions.
	I think prior to all that, he was playing around with controls on this seat, and he rendered the craft invisible, opaque at one stage, so that he could see out into the Into the universe, which was extraordinary.
	But most important, I think, is this connection between these strange, large-eyed, very pasty-colored skinned beings.
	Do you remember all that?
	Oh, of course.
	Who grabbed hold of him and he fought them off.
	And, you know, it does appear to me that those were sort of like biological robots who were subservient to these more human-like types.
	Everybody wants to know why, and I guess that's the one question you're not going to be able to answer for us, really.
	Why?
	Why all this is going on?
	When it's going to come to some sort of... Well, that is a question perhaps I can proffer.
	When do you think that general knowledge of the truth about enough of this will be realized?
	How close are we getting?
	About five years ago, Art, I asked that question to one of my friends in Washington.
	And I said, look, can you imagine how frustrating this is for me?
	You know, I'm, well, at the time I was sort of in my late 50s.
	And I said, look, you know, I've been interested since 1955.
	There's this constant ridicule from the media and the government and everything, you know, when is there going to be some official recognition?
	And he said two words.
	Stay healthy.
	Stay healthy.
	So, and since then, he and others have intimated that gradual exposure is the only way forward.
	They are concerned about overreaction of the public.
	Safety nets have been put into place, one of which is, as I've said, some of the facts have been leaked to a number of journalists, highly placed journalists.
	Well, Timothy, maybe it's time that you took the test.
	I mean, if you were given the opportunity to reveal to the world the complete truth about alien visitation, presence and motives, and history, And it was all given to you, and you could release all the information?
	I could release it, because I'm not an authority.
	I'm not a politician.
	So I wouldn't really have that much to lose.
	In fact, I have come out with a lot of this stuff, and it's either just disbelieved or ridiculed.
	But when somebody in a really prominent position of authority comes out with this stuff, it's Much, much more difficult because it's embarrassing above all.
	You know, we're not in control.
	Nobody likes to look out of control, particularly politicians.
	They like to tell us, as you know, how everything's great with the world and so on and so forth.
	You know, to admit that there are outside forces against whom we have little or no control whatsoever is political suicide and military suicide as well.
	Uh, quite right.
	Um, if they can't control it, then they don't even admit it's there, and that certainly is the course they've been following.
	It's just that it seems like eventually it does have to break, and I guess you were told then that as long as you can remain for another, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years, whatever, then you're likely to get to experience The Great Disclosure.
	I think what is happening, what I've noticed, and I'm not alone in this, is that there has been an improvement in, to a certain extent, in the media, the national and international media, with regard to reporting on this subject more seriously.
	I mean, certainly in terms of our recent Freedom of Information Act, a lot of reports, and I've got here, from 19th of December last year, a huge Huge article in a broadsheet, The Independent on Sunday, an article by a regular columnist, Andy Martin, reporting that in Cambridge, in England, you know where the university is?
	Yes.
	He and his family saw this giant craft just hovering and going over him, at a height of more than 400 or 500 feet.
	No noise, he said.
	Dark outside, outline of a craft.
	It was nothing like an aircraft.
	There were no wings poking out the sides.
	Definitely jumbo-sized, and it wasn't going up, and it wasn't coming down.
	And, you know, that's from, you know, a good journalist.
	And another journalist, the editor of a paper in Southern England, the Southern Daily Echo, reported seeing a large triangular craft in the New Forest.
	That's in Hampshire.
	All right, all right, we are at the top of the hour, and we're going to go to the tones here shortly.
	Hold on, Timothy.
	I'll tell you what I told ABC.
	I told them that after seeing what I saw, whether it's us, our back-engineered craft, or even our own craft that now defy gravity, or it's theirs, either way, either way, disclosure of this Oh, that'd be a really big story.
	Right?
	I can feel it.
	Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh You don't have to go
	Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh You don't have to go
	Oh oh oh oh, you don't have to go Oh oh oh oh, you don't have to go
	I, I, I, I, I All those tears I cry
	I, I, I, I, I, All those tears I cried, I, I, I, I, All those tears I cried, Oh, I, I, Baby please don't go.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 7.
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	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
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	pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	As I said, with the ABC special coming up on Thursday, the 24th, 8 to 10, a major page in ufology gets turned.
	Well, the major network finally doing a serious investigative report on ufology.
	My guest is a ufologist.
	I guess that's fair.
	Timothy Good, one of the world's best available for your questions.
	If he knows the answer, I'm sure he'll take a stab at it.
	your opportunity with him he could okay once again timothy good uh... with us this evening one
	of the world's uh...
	best you follow just a lot of books under his belt Alien Update is one on earthly disclosure, conflicting interests in the control of extraterrestrial intelligence, alien base, Earth's encounters with extraterrestrials, Alien Liaison, The Ultimate Secret,
	Beyond Top Secret, a worldwide UFO security threat, and of course, above Top Secret, the worldwide UFO cover-up.
	And, you know, interestingly, I found a photograph of the painting that was done of what Ramona and I experienced, and it's sideways, it's the wrong aspect ratio to try and put on but I'm gonna try it it's gonna squeeze it weirdly I think if I try and put it in my webcam slot but I'm gonna see what I can do about that in the next hour if I can I'll get it up there on my webcam if it looks too silly when it gets squished I won't do it once again here's Timothy Good and I would like of course to get some calls
	This hour, but Timothy, is there anything that we didn't cover, you know, in the first couple of hours that we absolutely should?
	Oh, gosh, there's tons of stuff out.
	I guess it would be more of interest to listeners if I mentioned things that they may not be familiar with at all.
	Sure.
	For example, well, they may be vaguely familiar.
	Back in March of 1997, there was a report that a large triangular craft was seen above the house of Michael Howard, who was then Home Secretary, living down in the marshlands of southern Kent.
	And the event was witnessed by a journalist who I spoke to.
	There were other witnesses involved who subsequently came forward.
	This craft alternately hovered right above Michael Howard's house.
	He's now he's currently leader of the Conservative Party and he's hoping to win the election, which we're going to have in May.
	But I have got an official request has been put in for information about the event and his opinions and so forth.
	And I've already had acknowledgement that he will indeed be replying to this.
	Stay tuned, I'll let you know what he says about it.
	But, interestingly, this craft alternately hovered right above his house and then retreated, you know, like four or five hundred yards.
	Then it came back again, and this was going on.
	And there was, at one stage, all the alarms were set off because, obviously, being Home Secretary at the time, a lot of security guards around the place, and dogs and so forth, and there was pandemonium.
	And this was witnessed by a number of people, including some firemen.
	So something happened I think and I think that's that's very interesting and you know talking about as we were earlier about politicians and UFOs but this is an election year and the least likely subject that any politician is going to get involved with is UFOs that's for sure and as far as your president is concerned I do know someone who is a friend of his and has on several occasions asked him And the last time he asked him was in late 2003, I believe.
	And he said, oh, come on, you know, Tommy, you know, blah, blah, blah.
	And this chap said, ask Cheney.
	That is what George Bush replied.
	Whether that's helpful to anybody, I don't know, but that's what your president said regarding the UFO subject.
	Why do I think that's a reasonable answer?
	I don't think so, too.
	I have a feeling if anybody knows, it's Dick Cheney.
	All right, two things.
	And George Bush, Sr.
	Former President Bush knows a great deal about the subject, that I can tell you.
	Okay.
	If you have an opportunity to get to the Coast to Coast AM website, I just took a picture of the picture.
	and put it on my webcam up there now unfortunately the proportions are not quite right but they're close I had to squish it to get it in there because it only allows a certain a size photograph 320 by 240 and those are not the appropriate It got squished, but it'll be up there in the next five or ten minutes, so I would love you to see that, Timothy.
	Thank you very much.
	It's exactly what we saw.
	It'll be up there very shortly.
	In the meantime, here are some people who want to talk to you.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Timothy Good.
	Hi.
	How you doing?
	Doing all right, sir.
	Who are you?
	I'm Bob from Los Angeles.
	You should cut me off off-guard there for a second.
	Sorry about that.
	Well, anyway, I appreciate, Timothy, good, all your hard work and research into this field, because I've conducted 20 years of my life trying to get answers, too, as well, because I worked in defense and I worked in general aviation for about 12 years.
	And I have had enough evidence shown me, and I've seen enough stuff to know that there's definitely something going on.
	So just know that in this field, if you really do investigate it, That's a very, very good question.
	Timothy, indeed, as you begin to probe secrets and get into areas that perhaps the government is not yet ready to be disclosed, are there ever times when you have been, do you feel in danger?
	First of all, I'm glad you raised this question, Bob.
	First of all, I've never been threatened, but I have had intimidation in the form of interference with telephone calls, most extraordinary shrieking sounds, howling sounds on the telephone when engaged in interesting conversations, particularly with my American friends.
	Several occasions had had items taken from my room.
	I was in, I think it was Virginia in the 1970s, touring with a London Symphony Orchestra at a motel.
	I noticed two government pool cards were outside.
	I didn't pay too much attention to it.
	And I went to lunch.
	And when I came back, my room, someone had been in my room and taken my research notes, but left expensive cameras and zoom lenses and stuff in the room.
	So I had no research material with me.
	Things like that have happened.
	I could go into other cases.
	There was a case in, I think it was Raleigh, North Carolina, when I was appearing on a local television station, and this is my own fault, I thought I'd just test the system.
	I noticed that there was a US Army base, headquarters of the US Army Reserve.
	I just thought I wondered whether there would be any repercussions.
	from my motel. So during this television interview I happened to mention the
	alleged briefing about the UFO situation which was given to US Army Reserve
	officers in Puerto Rico in the late late 80s and I just thought I wondered whether
	there would be any repercussions. Well when I came I also advertised the fact
	that I would be giving a small talk to some invited guests at the motel at
	lunchtime.
	I went back, I gave the talk, I came back to my room and a lot of stuff had been stolen from my girlfriend as well at the time.
	A lot of stuff.
	Now, it could have been somebody, it could have been an inside job.
	I must state that at the outset.
	At the same time, the police were not that cooperative.
	The best I learned was that the hotel had hardly ever been broken into.
	There were about 400 other rooms.
	Nobody else's room had been taken.
	So do you think that's intimidation?
	Do you think that was done by some military guys?
	I don't know.
	I keep an open mind about it.
	But those are some of the things that have happened to me.
	So obviously they've They've perhaps suggested to you that, what, you should be slowing up a little, you should be more careful about what you say.
	What do you think the message might have been?
	I don't know.
	Probably the latter.
	Fair answer.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Timothy Good.
	Good morning.
	Good morning to you both, and it's always an honor.
	This is Robin in Boulder, Colorado, and I'll be brief.
	I wonder if the gentleman would know of a way for a human to initiate contact, should one desire it?
	And would he care to comment on, I hope I've got the name right, Billy Meyer?
	Okay, very good.
	Actually, both good questions.
	One... I didn't get the lady's first name.
	I'm sorry, she's gone.
	But at any rate, two good questions.
	Anyway, she's from Colorado.
	Yes.
	The way to initiate contact, my goodness me, Some people don't need to initiate contact, apparently, especially if they're abducted out of their bedrooms in the middle of the night.
	Would you say she should be careful what she wishes for?
	I would, actually.
	My feeling is that one should always ask for protection.
	In these cases, one way to initiate contact, which worked for me on two occasions, which I discussed on this program, I believe, back in August when I was last on, Is to try telepathy, because these beings are very telepathic, and I don't know about the current timeframe, but there were a number of these people based on our planet at the time, and they can pick up your thoughts, and they have interreacted with human beings who've sent out telepathic signals.
	It certainly worked for me, and I had my own very close encounter through that.
	Second part of your question, as far as Billy Meyer is concerned, you might be surprised to learn that I actually discovered Billy Meyer.
	When I was in India in 1964, I didn't meet him then, but I met his friends.
	This was long before the story had come out.
	And I then traced him to Switzerland, and I spoke to him, and I thought he sounded sincere.
	However, in the 1970s, when Lou Zinstark, who got to know him, because I gave her his address, she spent a lot of time with him and thought he was sincere and everything, but I became Very, very dubious about the photographs that he was promoting for all sorts of reasons, which we probably don't have time to go into now.
	I know many people think they're genuine, but I do not.
	But I do think that Billy Maier did have contact at some time, and then maybe just to sort of gain more credence in these stories, he produced the photographs.
	He's an interesting character, that's for sure.
	That brings to mind another question that I really have to ask.
	I look at ufology and I've been looking at ufology and interviewing ufologists and both sides of the question for years and years and years, Timothy, and the one thing that I have learned is that ufology is probably its own worst enemy.
	And at various times people come on this program and they virtually shred each other as if it's not tough enough with the mass media out there and the government and all the institutions laughing and it's not tough enough.
	We have to destroy ourselves.
	Do you have comments on that?
	Yes, well I'm afraid there's always going to be rivalry in politics in any sphere of In any subject, and ufology is no exception.
	I think it's not just, it's not just people, you know, sort of knocking each other that the problem is also I think the people with wild claims, really wild, unproven claims, who come forward and get an awful lot of attention.
	I'm not going to go into any names.
	But I think that does a great deal more harm to the subject than it plays into the government's and the media's hands when people make these wild claims.
	I don't know what you think about that, Art.
	What percentage of UFO stories and contact stories and all the rest of it would you say is legitimate?
	And what percentage would you think are outright frauds?
	Wow, I'm no good at math.
	Outright frauds?
	I don't know.
	Honestly, I don't know, but I would say the percentage of absolutely legitimate cases and legitimate claimants is relatively small.
	So you would say that the bulk of them, or even the majority of them, would be fair, if not frauds, are simply untrue?
	Well, or a mixture.
	You know, people suffering from delusions or Oh, absolutely.
	But, you know, even if it's a minority, a minority can be 49% up, which is a high percentage.
	Oh yes.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Yes, of course.
	But I don't know.
	I'm no good at math.
	I haven't actually, you know, gone through all the tens of thousands of cases there are.
	I mean, there's so much stuff.
	We suffer from a surfeit of information.
	It's not, as a lot of people say, that there's not enough information to go on.
	There's too much information.
	Okay, let's try this approach.
	Of the claims that you have investigated, how many times have you found yourself disappointed?
	Many times.
	Many, many times.
	But not enough that you dismiss the entire phenomenon, obviously.
	Obviously not.
	Okay, that sure does make it a tough job, Timothy, a really hard job, because most of these claims, by their very nature, are pretty fantastic, aren't they?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Even the ones, for example, the photograph that I've got up.
	I hope you get a chance to see it.
	It's just a picture of a picture, but it represents exactly what I saw, even though the proportions are scrunched down a little.
	Sorry for that.
	That's exactly what I saw, and it's how close it was to my eye.
	I can't wait to get online.
	When you've seen something like that, it changes you forever, or at least until you get a legitimate explanation for what otherwise cannot be.
	May I mention very briefly, in case it gets forgotten, I'm going to be in the States in April and speaking at the Ozark UFO conference, the annual Ozark UFO conference, which is www.ozark.org.
	OzarkUFO.com, all lowercase, O-Z-A-R-K-U-F-O dot com.
	And the other speakers include Linda Howe, Grant Cameron, Wendell Stevens, Nancy Torbett, and Scott Ramsey, who will be discussing the Aztec case of 1948.
	He's got a lot of new evidence for that.
	Bill Hamilton, And David Marler, who will be discussing Flying Triangles in particular.
	That's quite an impressive list, all right.
	And there are two other... Wendell Stevens will be there as well.
	There's also two speakers to be announced.
	It hasn't been fixed yet.
	All right.
	It's a great conference, and I hope to see some of the listeners there.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies to the 10th of April inclusive.
	That's important.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Timothy Goode.
	Hello.
	Yes, Lord.
	This is Keith from Hamilton, Ontario.
	Yes, Keith.
	Hi, Timothy.
	I wanted to ask you about UFO abductees.
	In many cases, they claim there is a chip embedded in their neck or arm, and they had them surgically removed.
	My question is, is there any assessment or analysis on just what exactly these things are, and are they man-made?
	Thank you.
	First of all, let me mention that Roger Leir, L-E-I-R, has written a book on his investigations, his extraction of some of these objects from quite a number of patients.
	Have you looked into these?
	I've, of course, interviewed Dr. Leir.
	Roger's a good friend.
	And have you looked into his book and his claims?
	Yes, I have, but not as thoroughly as I would like.
	For example, I haven't seen the famous video of the moving implant.
	I expect you're aware of that, where it moves around underneath someone's arm.
	Actually, it was an ear.
	Maybe an arm as well, but Whitley Streber, a very good friend of mine, co-author of the book we wrote that became the movie, he had an implant that moved.
	They tried to retrieve it from his ear, and the damn thing, the scalpel touched it, and it moved!
	Yes.
	Also, the late Dr. John Altshuler, a hematologist and the first to investigate the animal mutilations, was also the first to excise unknown foreign objects from a few patients, one of which he thought was just an aggregation of human tissue.
	One other one he couldn't explain, he was just baffled.
	Yes.
	All right.
	I think there could be something to it.
	But again, I think a lot of things, everyone thinks they've got chips embedded in them, you know?
	Well, there are a lot of those.
	Timothy Good is my guest, a ufologist in Great Britain, all the way across the ocean.
	If you have a question for him, that's what we're here for.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm here to realize just what I have found.
	I have been only half of what I am.
	It's all clear to me now.
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	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	It is.
	And, uh, there you have it.
	It's on my website now.
	Uh, or THE website, on my webcam.
	It says Arts Webcam.
	Go to coasttocoastam.com.
	Upper left-hand corner, César's webcam.
	I would swear to you on a stack of Bibles, as would my wife, that that... Now bear in mind, the proportions are squished a little bit to get it into that size of a picture.
	It's actually a much higher resolution picture, so it's squished, but that's exactly what we saw.
	The proportion actually is pretty close in terms of the vehicle.
	Uh, you can judge by how my Geo Metro's squished a little bit, how the rest of it is squished, but that's it, baby.
	That's what we saw, and I'd swear that on a stack of Bibles.
	We'll be... We'll be back in just a moment.
	stay right where you are it is true that britain just got just literally got a
	freedom of information act and uh... apparently timothy feels that
	well they were ready for it by the time it came out uh...
	You may recall in the Roswell situation, when we had a man in Congress who actually went after the information, the only answer he ever got was, whoops, Congressmanship.
	Yes, and it looks like these files have been destroyed.
	Yes.
	Or lost.
	I think they said, or lost.
	Or both.
	Or whatever.
	Or both.
	And you think much the same kind of thing happened there in Britain with your new Freedom of Information Act?
	Probably, in some cases, yes.
	All right.
	First, Tom Colorline, you're on the air with Timothy.
	Good, good morning.
	Good morning.
	I was wanting to find out, from Timothy, how many people do you believe, if you believe, I'm not sure if you do or not, are possibly descendants from an alien race or people from the UFOs and stuff, you know?
	Alright, well, it's a reasonable enough question.
	If it's a genetic connection, then how many of us do you feel are descendants of Aliens?
	Well, I think indirectly, maybe the whole planet has been affected in some way by genetic manipulation going way, way back.
	So one way or the other?
	One way or the other.
	I can't say that, but I know that to be a fact.
	But it's my belief that there was genetic manipulation of primitive man When we first made our appearance on this planet.
	Another question would be, and I think I'll ask you, do you think that there's any possibility that we are not the first, and by that I mean the first intelligent occupants of Earth?
	I'm glad you raised that, Art.
	I've written about that in my books.
	I think it's quite likely that many, many aeons of time ago there were advanced races who'd maybe colonized this planet and they were through some Cataclysm were forced to seek other habitation.
	In that connection, I'm very interested in... I have a friend called Rubens Vilela.
	He's a scientist, a meteorologist from Brazil.
	He's also a former CIA communications specialist, and he's been on numerous Antarctic expeditions as a meteorologist, including many with the United States Navy.
	A type of contact with ETs and was given proof of their, for example, their ability to change weather because he was a meteorologist and they certainly proved their existence to him.
	He saw their craft and he said, these cosmic visitors proclaim a genetic origin linked to our own species on Earth, though they inhabit a dying planet where we would have to manipulate time and space dimensions to reach.
	And that's what Rubens Valela wrote in a letter to Michael Collins, the Apollo 11 astronaut in 1979.
	And remember, he himself acknowledged that there were several species coming here, and in particular with the species that he was familiar with, he said, they desire an alliance without fear and offer us protection against impending cosmic dangers.
	He also learned and emphasized Rubens Villela, certain other alien species are inimical to human beings, so there are dangers.
	Have there been mentions, Timothy, of not just bombs that we might do ourselves away with, but our current environmental situation, which seems quite distressing?
	Absolutely.
	The contactee, for example, Enrique Castillo Rincon, I've written several chapters about
	him in my last book, Unearthly Disclosure, and he was given a tremendous amount of information
	about coming cataclysms on this planet.
	He says, he actually says, I do not give an account of the calamities announced by the
	instrument because they had information covering many years as to how the facts will unwind.
	he goes into some detail. I'm just checking through my book here.
	I can't remember everything.
	He was taken to several alien bases, one of which was under the Pacific Ocean in the Marianas Trench, which is about 11,500 meters down.
	But the base was located in a wall of that area, and an extraordinary story.
	And he was given information about coming events on this planet, including enormous geological Cataclysms, and the fact that the Sun, there would be problems with our Sun, which would lead to severe, very severe problems on Earth.
	And he goes into some detail about that.
	I can't remember chapter and verse, Art.
	I'm sorry, right now, but... Oh, that's quite alright, Timothy.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Timothy.
	Good, good morning.
	Yes, sir.
	I was wondering, what is the significance I didn't actually hear that.
	the disc, are the aliens doing the disc and maybe man did the triangle because it was
	better to maneuver electrically now?
	Well, I'd like the answer to that one myself, Timothy.
	I didn't actually hear that, the triangle from the what?
	Well, he was asking about the significance of the triangle versus the disc.
	In other words, he was suggesting that the disc... His voice was incredibly distorted.
	I understand that the disc might be alien, he felt, while the triangle might be more earthly in origin.
	No, no, no.
	Triangles have been seen for a very, very long time.
	It's just no way they can all be terrestrial.
	So, you know, they have many different types of craft.
	Many, many different shapes have been observed, and triangle is just one of them.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Timothy.
	Good morning.
	Hello, gentlemen.
	This is Rick in Pennsylvania.
	Hi, Rick.
	First, let me just say this, and I have the most respect for both you gentlemen.
	I don't believe in any of this UFO stuff.
	I never have.
	I am a hardcore Bible-believing Christian, but that being said, I do believe people are seeing things, no doubt about it.
	But my question, sir, is, If, in this day and age, we live in such a new age, such a... all different things, you know, anything goes, why would the government hide these things?
	And if these things exist, just tell us!
	I mean, obviously I have my own opinion on what these are, just like most Christians, but... And I have another quick question.
	Survey true Christians, and if you ever have done that, to see exactly what the percentage of their slayings or their abductions would be.
	I think you'll find that it's Almost zero percent.
	May I ask you a question, caller?
	Yes, sir.
	If it turned out that you were entirely wrong, and this really was various other intelligent races visiting Earth for whatever motivation, and that actually turned out to be the case irrefutably, how disturbed by that fact would you be?
	Well... Honestly?
	Let me just say this real quick.
	When God created the universe, okay, before Satan fell, We don't know what was out there.
	When Satan fell, the earth and the universe was corrupt forever.
	So yes, there could be, because when God said, let there be, the universe is still being.
	Okay?
	That's all I can say about that.
	How upset would I be?
	Yes, sir.
	As a Christian and a follower of God and Jesus, I would accept it.
	But the point is, though... Would you accept it if it included a story that your vision of creation, your belief and faith in the way creation occurred just wasn't so?
	Well, see, that's a hard question to answer, because that's my beliefs.
	And you know what?
	Let me say this, Art.
	I believe you're a man that's searching I really feel that.
	I've listened to you for almost a year, and God, I hope you find the truth.
	Well, answer my question, though.
	I know it's hard, but answer it anyway.
	If it turned out irrefutably that they were our creators, not the way it's in the Bible, that would put you in tilt, wouldn't it?
	Well, I guess that would... Well, let me just say this.
	Okay, I understand.
	If there is a God that is a perfect God, right, and makes no mistakes, then why would He make the horrible All right, well, it seemed to me that Timothy seemed to suggest, if you were listening carefully between the lines, that Jesus might have been an alien.
	Timothy?
	I did suggest that.
	Jesus said in the book of John on two occasions, I am not of this world.
	Now, I'm sure Rick will say, well, of course, that was just metaphorical.
	Which it well might have been.
	I wasn't there.
	But you can't get away from the star of Bethlehem, the bodily ascension into heaven surrounded by two beings in shining raiment, his remarkable abilities and so forth, and the appearance to the conversion of Paul on the road to Damascus when Jesus appeared in some kind of brilliant object in the sky.
	Things like that, I think, and of course the angel Gabriel, what are angels?
	They're not creatures with flapping wings.
	An angel simply means a messenger, and they're normally described, even if they come from the heavens, meaning the sky, possibly as human beings, human-type beings.
	And that goes into the Old Testament as well.
	Because people who encountered mysterious beings coming from the sky said that this was their appearance.
	They had the appearance of man.
	That's Ezekiel, I believe.
	Alright, well, would you say that people like Rick, and he sounded like a very nice guy, but he did dance around that question quite a bit, as in not actually answering it, he would go On tilt, for sure, if that kind of irrefutable proof was presented to him, because it would violate everything he believes and has faith in.
	And Brookings Institute, I think, said that for that very reason, we couldn't disclose this.
	I think religious sensitivity is certainly one of the reasons for the cover-up, because of the connection.
	And I can sympathize with governments on that level.
	So can I. West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Timothy Good.
	Hi.
	Yes, hello.
	This is Kerry calling from Tucson.
	Yes.
	Timothy, a while back, last year when you were in Tucson, Arizona, you interviewed a friend of mine about his encounter back in the 70s when he was in the Navy.
	Yes, Bill.
	Indeed.
	I did, indeed, and we talked about that.
	He came on the show in August with George Noyer, a terrific story, and I interviewed him for many hours, and I find it a compelling story.
	He only got a couple of points wrong.
	The incident took place not in 1975 as he thought it was, but in 1976 on board the USS
	Forrestal.
	To cut a long story short, there was a NASA shockwave test which I have found did definitely
	take place because I'm doing a lot of research into that case.
	Yeah, I was going to ask you... And then these unidentified submarine objects appeared in a completely smooth sea.
	The sea suddenly went smooth.
	Two circular craft and two triangular craft, with all sorts of lights on them, came up from the sea.
	And there's a lot more to that story.
	I don't want to compromise Bill in any way, and I don't want to compromise my own investigations, because I am in touch with some naval people about this case.
	Ah, well, I'll let him know, okay?
	Sorry?
	I'll let him know, because I tried to get ahold of him tonight, but I couldn't get ahold of him.
	I wanted him... I wanted him not on the Internet, of course, and I was going to phone him, but it just slipped my mind at the last time, and so forth, because I would have liked him.
	Usually he listens to this show always.
	Yeah, I don't know where he is tonight.
	I tried to get a hold of him.
	Give him my warmest regards.
	I can tell you this, he would have a chance of getting in.
	We've got, you know, every single phone line is locked up.
	Internet, you're on the air with Timothy Goode.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	The question I had was, I'm a Christian.
	My name's Patrick from Oklahoma, and I too am a Christian, but my All of this is, you know, rather a spine-tinkling type of conversation and realization, but my question is, do you have any stories of times that you've come across aliens or stories of aliens or UFOs that just gave you a sense of evil?
	Definitely.
	Okay, that's an excellent question.
	A very good question, and yes, indeed, I have, and whether these being are aliens or from other dimensions
	it's not a safe
	necessarily a safe universe with beings of sweetness and light i mean as above
	so below there's there's good and there is evil and undoubtedly in my
	opinion there are beings from elsewhere who i would turn evil definitely
	uh...
	then he would say if you were still here well yes
	evil of course evil because uh... really we're not talking about aliens
	we're talking about lucifer and his influence
	here on earth Christians would say, well that's real, sure it's real, it's Lucifer at work.
	Well, I can't comment on that.
	I'm not sure.
	If I believe in a specific being that's responsible for evil, I think it goes way beyond that, but probably beyond my comprehension.
	Well, again though, it comes back to the faith that so many... I mean, it's so strong in the world.
	It's not as though it's changed.
	Christians believe what they believe.
	We have people in the world who are willing to kill us unless we are willing to believe what they believe.
	That's right.
	I mean, people are living and dying and fighting wars for what they believe about God.
	True, and a lot of Christians went around in their tens of thousands killing people who didn't believe in Christianity as well.
	So, I mean, it works, but I think we've sort of, hopefully, Hopefully got past that stage now, but... Well, maybe, but isn't what you have described, when you really get down to the bare bones of it, almost a new religion?
	Yes.
	Well, in fact, many religions have been engendered as a result of people becoming fanatically obsessed with UFOs.
	And it's an inextricable link between these subjects.
	It is.
	On the one hand, they're linked, and on the other hand, they're at absolute odds with each other.
	I think that's what prevents full disclosure, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
	I've thought that all these years, ever since the Brookings Report.
	I don't think much has changed in the world.
	Even though we have a more modern world with all these great technological conveniences, it's still people's faith.
	And a lot of what's said by ufologists, really bottom line, Timothy, it does challenge that faith.
	Yes, absolutely.
	A lot of people have very peculiar beliefs on all sorts of subjects, not just ufology.
	I would think the open-minded ones, then, would and should read your books.
	Is there any first book, since you've got so many, that people should read?
	Probably your latest, I'm sure, right?
	Well, no, I wouldn't recommend that to start off with.
	I know disclosure really goes to the outer limits.
	Probably the best is Beyond Top Secret.
	Beyond Top Secret?
	And I think probably... But, unfortunately, nearly all these books are out of print.
	I think there may be some copies of Alien Base and Unearthly Disclosure available on Amazon, but Beyond Top Secret, Alien Contact and so forth are all out of print and you can try Amazon, but I wish some of them would be reprinted.
	Well, maybe they will.
	Timothy Goode, it has been a pleasure, as always, to have you all the way across from Great Britain.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much indeed, Art.
	And good night, my friend.
	And don't forget, folks, set those VCRs and whatever it is you've got Thursday, 8 o'clock, 7 Central, ABC, UFOs, Prime Time, ABC with Peter Jennings.
	I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
	It is coming up on 2am here in the wet desert.

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