Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Feb. 19, 2005 - Art Bell

02:54:25

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Timothy Good - UFOs and Coverups - Chris Moneymaker - Poker Champion

Participants

Main voices

01:00:08

timothy good

01:08:30

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Desert and that's great American Southwest.
		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zone.
		Every single one of them covered like a blanket by this program.
		Post post a.m.
		I'm Martell here for the weekend edition.
		You may have noticed I took last weekend off.
		Little story behind that.
		And Ramona and I wanted to get away, so we set it all up to...
		So what do you say?
		We've looked at the forecast, and as far as the eye can see, there's no rain in the forecast, so I'd like to have the weekend off.
		Sure enough.
		Gave me the weekend off.
		We got into the RV.
		It took off.
		Got up to a place called Mesquite, Nevada.
		Woke up the next morning to flash flood warnings for alerts and warnings and so forth for a perump.
		And in fact, the whole, in fact, actually how I found out was the RV has satellite television, so I rolled CNN the morning I got up after arriving in Mesquite, and it said flood warnings for the American Southwest.
		And I went and looked at our forecast, and there it was.
		So we came home and took care of what broadcast information we had to very quickly.
		And then, and still, the American Southwest, as you've seen in the news, with the flooding in California, it's day after day after day of rain.
		I'm telling you, folks, the desert here is turning into it's all green.
		You drive around the desert, it's all green.
		Maybe this is the great climate shift that everybody talked about.
		Everything out there is green.
		It's February, but it's green.
		It's really weird day after day.
		And if you look at the forecast now, we've got another five or seven days of rain ahead of us as far as the eye can see.
		Nothing but rain.
		All right.
		In the next hour comes Timothy Goode on the subject of UFOs, also the subject, of course, of a tremendous special by ABC coming up this Thursday.
		You mark it down right now, this coming Thursday.
		ABC was here at my home filming for two days.
		That'll earn me about 30 seconds on the show.
		So somewhere or another, you'll see my shiny face and perhaps that of Ramona in that special coming up on ABC 8 to 10 o'clock, 7 Central, I think, on Thursday.
		A prime time UFO special.
		Hooda Kunk, huh?
		All right, coming up in a moment, Chris Moneymaker.
		You know, I'm a fan, a big fan of Texas Holdham.
		We watch the Travel Channel and ESPN, and like so many other millions of Americans, we have become enthralled with Texas Holdham.
		Well, Chris Moneymaker is the 2003 winner of the World Series of Poker.
		And he came out of nowhere.
		And here is this guy up there on the final table with these incredible poker players who get there time after time after time for a reason because they're good.
		And Moneymaker whips their butts.
		So in a moment, we're going to explore.
		Remember we had Amarillo Slim on not too long ago, and now we will explore the mind of a man who made it all the way, won the World Series.
		Incredible.
		Chris Moneymaker in just a moment.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		It's siren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, one of the greats, Chris Moneymaker, is the Tennessee accountant who turned a $40 poker bid into a $2.5 million purse in the nation's biggest game of cards.
		Chris is currently a professional poker player, spends his time now traveling the country, promoting his new gaming company.
		Here is Chris Moneymaker.
		Chris, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thanks, Art.
unidentified		I appreciate you having me on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you can tell me, Chris.
		I mean, poker has been, it's been there forever.
		Texas hold'em for a long time, years and years.
		But in the last couple of years, with the Travel Channel and ESPN, you know, showing the whole cards and showing all of us, there's been this explosion, this incredible explosion of poker.
		How come?
unidentified		Well, I think it's two things.
		One, the whole cards are the biggest thing.
		I mean, when you can really get into the mind of the player and see what they're doing on TV and sort of play along with them, I mean, that's probably the main thing that's driving this poker phenomenon.
		And also, when you look at it, I think if you look on TV now, all the reality TV shows that you see on, poker is probably the purest form of reality TV you'll see out there.
		I mean, it's nothing scripted.
		It's all real life, and it's people going up for more money than what you would see at any other game show.
		And we're playing for millions of dollars where they're giving away $50,000 in some of these game shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the ratings for it are absolutely through the roof.
unidentified		Oh, it's amazing.
		Everybody's doing poker shows now.
		I mean, you've got some on the Game Show Network, Bravo, Travel Channel, ESPN, and NBC's coming out with one next month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I guess the appropriate thing for me to do would be to ask you about, you know, the big win.
		I mean, your book is very descriptive.
		It sort of starts out and takes us through.
		I mean, you had to borrow money to even get there, right?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, I wasn't the best poker player when I went out there.
		I was decent, but I had a blackjack where I played blackjack, and I sports gambled a lot, and I didn't make a ton of money, so I didn't have exactly a ton of money going out there.
		I won my seat, but getting out there is expensive, and then I felt like I needed at least a week to learn how to play with other people in a casino environment, tournament environment, which I hadn't had previous.
		I played in a live casino before, playing ring games, but never in a tournament environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so everybody in the audience understands.
		You went on to the Internet, I guess, and they have these pre-games on the Internet, and that's how you won your seat.
		What is a seat worth?
unidentified		The seat's worth $10,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$10,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you took your $40 on the Internet and turned that into a $10,000 seat.
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At that point, you do what?
		You say, oh, now I need to stay in a hotel.
		I need to eat.
		I need transportation.
		This is going to cost me so much money.
unidentified		Right, yeah, you've got to get a flight out there.
		You've got to have a hotel room.
		And, you know, the term it lasts a week.
		I wanted to go out there a week before to learn.
		So you're talking two weeks in a hotel, which you have to pay for.
		So, I mean, it's not exactly, it's not free, so you have to pay for it somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you first got there, you were probably regarded by the guys who were likely to end up on the final table as dead money, weren't you?
unidentified		Oh, of course, yeah.
unidentified		I mean, I was just like everybody else sitting out there and all the poker players.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get to sit with any, I mean, short of the final table, as you approach the final table, and the way it works, folks, is you just keep playing table after table, and if you keep beating, I guess if you keep winning these tables, you will finally arrive at the final table, but that's a long journey, right?
unidentified		Yeah, it's a seven-day journey.
unidentified		It takes a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seven days?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are those seven days like, Chris?
unidentified		They're absolute terrible.
		I mean, it's sitting there for 12 hours to 14 hours a day on the top, you know, always thinking if you lose concentration once, you could go broke.
		So you're always having to pay attention.
		You can't ever take a break.
		And you get mentally and physically drained after about three or four days of doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Texas Hold'em is a game where you can lose it all on one hand, right?
unidentified		Definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you explain to the audience, you know, many of whom are not familiar with poker, but I think most people, some people know what tells are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are tells?
unidentified		Tells are when an opponent or you get nervous during a situation, you have different kind of reactions, whether you have a strong hand or a weak hand.
		And as general, you have to be under pressure to have what are called tells.
		And when you do get nervous, you'll have different facial ticks or different reactions to different situations.
		And it's just observing those over time and developing a pattern of what those things are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are your tells?
unidentified		I was told the third day that my nostrils flared when I was bluffing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you able to go back and review the tape and see if that was true?
unidentified		Well, fortunately or unfortunately, there wasn't any tape of me doing that.
unidentified		It was before I was really caught on camera too much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		And it was actually brought to my attention by a fellow player that was already busted out of the tournament.
		So he was nice enough to let me know.
		And then so I started using that to my advantage later on in the tournament and started flaring my nostrils on purpose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
		So in other words, when you wanted to send a false, that's pretty cool.
		And do these tells get sort of rumored around everywhere?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, you know, everybody thinks they have tells on everybody.
		And it's, you know, tells are not an exact science.
		It's something that you have to have for yourself.
		I mean, some people will tell you someone that has a tell, and you disagree with it.
		I mean, it's not a perfect science, unfortunately.
		It's just something you sort of use as guidelines when you're playing at the table.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you use them?
unidentified		Oh, that's my main part of my game is using them.
		But you have to be careful because, like, I was using my nose to throw off fake tails.
		There's a lot of people throwing off fake tails.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, I know.
		It'd be psychology and double psychology.
		And I don't know how you'd get around that.
		I guess you just have to use your gut.
		And is that what you finally mean?
		You were at a table with people.
		Gus Hansen, for example, that guy scares the hell out of me.
		When I watch Gus play, he just scares me to death.
		I mean, the guy will bet on anything.
unidentified		It's amazing how aggressive people can get at the table.
		And it's definitely tough to play against someone like Gus.
		Sam Farha isn't as wild as Gus, but he plays a fast game, and they put a lot of pressure on you at the table.
		And what they're doing, they're looking for Tails by putting tons of pressure on you.
		And it does make it tough to play against those type of players.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, Gus doesn't just have the reputation.
		I've watched the guy.
		He will bet just virtually on anything.
		Is that a strategy in itself?
		In other words, everything else aside, if you are aggressive enough, if you're willing to keep throwing the bigger part of the money out there on the table, is that a strategy in itself to win poker?
unidentified		Oh, definitely.
		I mean, first of all, people fear you.
		I mean, they don't want to get mixed up in a potch with you because they really don't know where you are.
		I mean, the good thing about poker is if you know where your opponent is, which he can somewhat narrow down by the how he bets, but you don't know where he is, he has an advantage over you in the long run.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did TV how does that work with TV?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is each player sort of required to show his cards so the camera can get a look at them?
unidentified		You're not required.
		You sign a contract in the beginning of the tournament to play in the tournament that says that you'll show your cards and you can't wear advertisements or whatever the case may be for this particular tournament.
		And it's not until you make it to the final table or what's called the TV table throughout the World Series where they put you one specific table.
		It's the only time you have to show your whole card.
		So, you know, for six days, I didn't even show a whole card one.
		So it just depends on what table you get and how the look of the draw comes up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to describe your style of play versus other champions, Amarillo, Doyle, others, how would you describe your style of play?
unidentified		In general, it's aggressive, but it really just depends on the table.
		I play my style exactly to how my table plays.
		I mean, I don't sit down with a game plan or a way to play.
		I'm adapted to whatever best fits the table I'm sitting on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another thing that I've seen poker players do is for a certain period of time, they'll be extremely aggressive, and then they'll totally switch gears and start throwing away cards, and you gasp when you see what they throw away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're getting so conservative, it's crazy.
unidentified		Yeah, when you're playing real aggressive, it's called changing gears.
		And when you get really crazy, you start raising a bunch of hands, people will start to believe that you're just doing nothing but stealing the whole time, and they'll start calling you with a bunch of stuff, and you really don't want to be in, like, Gus, he changes gears, you just don't see it as much.
		He does change gears, and he backs it down.
		But, you know, when people start calling you with anything, it can get sort of scary.
		So to turn that off, you start playing more solid hands without them sort of knowing.
		You're still giving off the impression that you're stealing a lot and that you're raising and you're being aggressive, but you're really not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		You're going to have to remind me of which tournament this was because I've seen so many.
		But I watched you in a tournament fairly recently.
		It may have been some time ago they delay these things.
		But you started off with a whole lot of money, and they just beat the hell out of you.
		I mean, they just really took you to the cleaners.
		Which one was that?
		It was televised.
unidentified		I don't remember getting taken to the cleaners much recently.
unidentified		The only one that we've had down lost in recently that's been on TV that I've really done poorly in was called The Battle of the Sexes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that was it.
unidentified		Yeah.
		We all started with 100,000 in chips, and they started the blinds real high in that.
		It was a fun type game.
		It was, you know, just have a good time.
		I got a straight on the river, and a girl had a full house.
		I thought she may have had the full house, but I called anyways.
		It's sort of second-guessing, like first-gut instinct.
		But, you know, it happens sometimes at poker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like they keep saying, that's poker.
unidentified		Yeah, I got beat up in that one pretty good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is something I asked Amarillo Slim, and try as I might, Chris, I couldn't get him to answer it.
		And here's the question.
		Why are there so few or even no big-time women champions?
unidentified		Well, I mean, to answer the question, I guess in the best way I know how, is the ratio of men to women playing at this point.
		I mean, you've got probably at least a 40 or 50 to 1, if not more, ratio of guys playing compared to girls.
		That ratio is changing right now.
		But, you know, if you look at the tournament that I played in that I won, there was 839 people, and I would say probably 30 or 40 of those were women.
		So just based on the sheer number alone, that's probably the main reason why.
		But you're starting to see a lot of women play, and they're very good when they do play.
		So I think that in a few years you might see one pop up as the numbers start equaling out as far as entrance into these big events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think there's anything about the emotional aspect of a woman's personality that would tend to bring on more tells or, I don't know, something?
unidentified		Well, they can be as crafty as we can, if not craftier.
		So, you know, that's sort of tough.
		The only difference I can see with the women I've played with versus the men is just men in general are more aggressive.
		They'll bet with play more aggressive poker in general.
		And some women will, but most of them that I've played with, I'm not saying all, but they'll tend to sit back more and wait for the hands a little bit more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, in the old poker, it was all about the cards you had.
		I mean, yeah, there was some bluffing.
		But in the new poker, it seems like it's all about aggressiveness and how much you can scare the other guys.
unidentified		Yeah, with ring game and, you know, playing for cash money, it's all about playing, you know, it's playing the person, but it's also getting cards and playing the correct way.
		In poker, tournament poker, it's just a totally different game.
		You have to play it exactly opposite what you would play a ring game.
		You have to be aggressive.
		You have to be crazy.
		You have to take some chances.
		You have to get lucky a few times, and you have to be able to really read your opponent real quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If there are people out there, and there are millions of fans now of all these poker tournaments, they can either take, what, $10,000 or sometimes less and get in, or they can get in the way you did starting on the Internet in poker games.
		Most of them are probably dead money.
		How would you advise these people?
unidentified		Play in smaller tournaments.
		Keep cracking at it.
		I mean, it took me a good seven months to really do well in any kind of tournament online.
		For a long time, I would get busted real early.
		Keep changing your styles.
		Change it up a little bit.
		See what's more comfortable with you.
		Enjoy it.
		And it'll come with time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there any light bulb that went on for you as you kept playing and playing and playing, even online?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there some style or a moment you reached where you knew that you could do this?
unidentified		What's funny is the time it hit the light bulb for me was actually I had never won a tournament.
		I was playing online.
		It was probably seven months before I went to the World Series.
		I was playing in a tournament, and me and my buddy have exactly different styles.
		He was so much more aggressive than I was at the table.
		I was more conservative, and I played half the tournament and built a pretty good sizable chip lead in this one specific tournament.
		And then I got tired of playing.
		I let him come on and finish it on my account.
		And I watched him play, and he was just playing like a Gus Hanson-type style, and he ended up winning the tournament.
		So I started using that style more later in the tournament, and I started winning some tournaments and finishing in the money a lot more often.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who do you admire the most?
		I mentioned Gus, and then you've mentioned him several times.
		Do you look at Gus and admire him?
unidentified		It's not that I admire anybody in the sport.
		I mean, it's a...
		I don't fear.
		If there's a person I fear, it's probably Johnny Chan.
		He's probably one of the scariest guys out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I've only played with Gus once and I got lucky and put him out.
		But he's definitely a scary guy.
		Like I said, I've only played with him once so it's hard to put anything on where he is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you fear Chan?
unidentified		I've played with him several times and he's a difficult person to get a read on.
		He's been in the game for 20 years and he's got about every move I've ever seen.
		So I haven't been playing for long but I've played against some really good people and he's one of the best I've ever played against.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to well you won $2.5 million everybody always wants to know this when somebody when a gambler wins $2.5 million does he go out and invest it in stocks and bonds and do all the things that most people would do or does he gamble it?
unidentified		Well that's a good question.
		I gambled some of it and then I put a lot of it away in stocks and bonds.
		I was an accountant going into it and I went back to work.
		My intention was to not play poker and just be at work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But then the whole poker boom took place and you started getting invitations and stuff like that, right?
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		I got some endorsements and some appearance money and things started taking off and it just didn't make much sense to work at what I was making, what I could make in basically a week playing poker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chris Moneymaker, hold it right there.
		Bottom of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Can you hear my heartbeat in this garden?
		Do you know that behind all this corn?
		Life is a Titi's eye, a camele.
		Life is a Titi's eye, a camele.
		Life is a Titi's eye, a camele.
		Life is a Titi's eye, a camele.
		talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Chris Moneymaker.
		He started with 40 bucks on the internet, won the 2003 World Series of Poker No Limit Holden Championship.
		It's quite a story, all right?
		We'll get right back to it.
		So If you've never seen the poker tournaments, you're really missing something.
		You know, the Travel Channel, ESPN, others, they carry them.
		And they're incredible.
		I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars, even sometimes millions of dollars on one hand, and you get to see the whole cards.
		You know what the other guy's got.
		And we're thinking that accounts for the popularity of the game on television, whatever it is.
		It's dramatic.
		It's interesting.
		In fact, it's fascinating.
		It will rivet you.
		And the winner of the 2003 World Series of Poker is with us tonight in this hour.
		Next hour, by the way, Timothy Goode and UFOs.
		But right now, Chris Moneymaker.
		And Chris, have you played with Fossil Man?
unidentified		Yeah, I've played with him three or four times, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Weird, weird glasses that he puts on and these little weird fossils that he keeps around as like a lucky charm.
		Is there anything that you do like Fossilman?
		Anything you wear or that you've done that sticks with you and you keep with you for luck?
unidentified		I wear my Oakley sunglasses basically just to hide my eyes like he does.
unidentified		Other than that, I really don't have anything that I keep with too much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How important are the eyes in terms of the rest of the face?
		I mean, ticks and all the rest of it, the way you look or even flaring your nostrils, whatever.
		How important are the eyes?
unidentified		Well, it's all important.
		Eyes are definitely a very important part.
		It's one of the things I look at first.
		And if I can't find anything there, I go on to other places.
		But it's definitely a part.
		And some people hide them, some people don't.
		It's managed to hide everything.
		I mean, you never know what's going to give something away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a big controversy about showing whole cards.
		Plenty of people think that you never, ever, ever show your cards at the end of a hand.
		Some other people do it.
		It seems like just for well, I don't know.
		What's your view on that?
		Do you show sometimes or not?
		Not ever.
unidentified		I show, but usually I show for a reason.
		If I'm showing you my hand, I'm trying to either upset you and get you on what's called tilt, put you to where you want to come at me, or to show you that I'm raising with only quality hands to show you that I'm not just trying to steal.
		It depends on the situation.
		Most of the times I don't show, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tilt.
		Tilt.
		That's such an interesting word.
		And also the title of a new ESPN.
		Have you been watching Tilt on ESPN?
unidentified		Unfortunately, I'm not around to watch too much TV.
		I've heard it's a different show.
		I haven't had a chance to watch it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's different, all right.
		At any rate, the whole subject of tilt is interesting.
		Tilt means, I guess, when a player begins making moves because they're upset, they're angry, something's been done to them, and they go berserk.
		That's tilt when they start betting where they shouldn't doing stuff like that, right?
		That's what tilt is.
unidentified		Yeah, that's a good explanation of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever been tilted?
unidentified		Oh, of course.
		If you're a poker player, you've been tilted.
		I mean, I try to control it better now than what I used to, but it happens to everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when it happens, are you then placing bets just for revenge or how does it affect you?
unidentified		Usually you just make bad decisions.
		I mean, in one hand that you would normally fold, you raise with, and you would call off all your chips when you shouldn't be in the hand.
		I mean, it affects you a lot of different ways.
		Usually, if I know I'm going on tilt, I try to walk around for a while and cool off for at least five minutes.
		It's better to lose a couple blinds and miss a couple hands rather than throw all of your chips away because you're mad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		So you'll sacrifice.
		And when you do, when you get up and you walk away, you do miss.
		I mean, you've got to still contribute whatever the blind is, right?
unidentified		Oh, definitely.
unidentified		Yeah, you're sacrificing blinds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in a big game, you might not have that opportunity.
unidentified		In a big game, you still have that opportunity.
unidentified		Usually the big games, the blinds are not overly, I mean, some of the bigger games are 25, 50, no limit, where you might lose 75 bucks or 150 bucks, which is, in that game, is not that huge of a game, huge amount to lose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're that well-controlled that you'd miss a couple just to sort of gather yourself back together again.
unidentified		Well, it's not that well-controlled.
unidentified		I've learned my lesson a couple of times, too many times, so I know to get up and walk around for a little while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have anybody that's generally watching you and can tell you when you're beginning to tilt?
unidentified		Not really.
		My fiancé and my father both watch me when I play, but they watch me more for just entertainment value than anything else.
		No one really watches me to watch me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		How do you feel about at a poker table?
		Sometimes there will be one person who will just talk your ear off.
		I mean, you're trying to concentrate and do whatever you do mentally, and some guy is just rattling away talking about everything that happens at the table and a lot that doesn't.
		How do you feel about that?
unidentified		It depends on the game.
		If it's a lower game or not such a serious game, I'll sit there and I'll rattle back with Mike talking to people anyway, so I enjoy the conversation.
		But if it's a really big tournament or a really big cash game, I'll usually just sort of tune the mountains and stare at trying to pick up my tails and play the game.
		And most of the time they get the head that you're watching the game, and they usually go quiet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever talk to guys to ruin their concentration?
unidentified		If I know it's going to help, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever does it?
unidentified		It does help, yeah.
		I mean, it all depends on the person.
		So use every little trick in the book you can to get someone off the game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Al, I've seen, I mean, you've been called by those, you know, I did a little internet search on you, and a number of people have written stories about you, and they all seem impressed with how much of a gentleman you are after the game.
		Now, of course, I don't see that a lot on television, but when you get up from the table, you shake hands with everybody.
		I might add, not everybody does.
		There are some pretty poor losers, aren't there?
unidentified		I mean, there are some sore losers, and there's some very good gentlemen in the game.
unidentified		It's a great game, because I think more and more now you're seeing a lot more gentlemen in the game.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but there are some, and they throw things around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen things on television course.
unidentified		Oh, there are definitely some sore losers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		TV highlights that stuff.
		You know, when somebody gets up and throws something across the room or something like that.
		There's a lot of money at stake.
		No question about that.
		How do you feel when you won?
unidentified		I mean, it didn't even really sink in.
		I was top of the world.
		I had no idea the feat that I had accomplished.
		It didn't sink in for probably two weeks until after the fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the IRS waiting in the wings for you to sign papers?
unidentified		No, they were waiting.
		They were just waiting far back.
		They don't make you pay until April 15th of next year.
		They weren't on my doorstep waiting, but they were definitely sitting in the wings waiting on their check.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They definitely noted you had done that.
unidentified		I don't know if they did or not.
unidentified		I went ahead and paid them before they even asked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		I just thought it was best if I didn't ever get on their bad side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That probably amounts to, what, about 38, 40% of $2.5 million.
unidentified		Thanks to George W. Bush, it went down to 33%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		33%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is better.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is thank you to President Bush.
		Stu Unger, you know that name, of course.
		Three-time World Series poker champion.
		But in the end, Stu was definitely beaten by his own demons.
		And I wonder if you feel any of those demons, or can you just play poker to make a living?
unidentified		Well, as you read my book, you'll see that I had enough crutches, enough demons before I won the World Series.
		Now that I've won, I've really centered myself, and I'm happy to play poker whenever the time calls, and I don't usually play, like I'm sitting at home now.
		I'm not playing.
		I don't play on the Internet much.
		I don't really do much of anything other than just enjoy life.
		And I don't gamble on anything else anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't go right back to the Internet, huh?
unidentified		I still play on the Internet.
		It's just, you know, it's not something I would rather spend time with friends and family and just have a good time enjoying my life.
		I've got this business starting, so we're spending a lot of energy getting that going off the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is your business?
unidentified		Basically, after I won, everybody wanted to put my name and likeness on garbage chips that are coming over from China.
		And that's what a lot of the other people have done.
		And I just decided I didn't want to do that.
		So I decided the best way to do it was to create my own line of chips.
		And we created a high-end casino quality chip that no one else can do.
		We actually went out and found one of the manufacturers that does it.
		There's only five that do it.
		We got one of the five to do it for us.
		And so we created high-end chips.
		And we also went out and were getting licenses from some big names.
		We went out and got Rusty Wallace.
		We've got Playboy.
		And we've got Vita, which is a girl from Maxim.
		And we got Death Row Records as well.
		And we're working on several others right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So these are the kinds of things a poker champion does to capitalize on the celebrity, I guess, right?
unidentified		Yeah, you know, it's something that you utilize to make some money that you not have to earn it on the table.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, a lot of people and a lot of probably the people that were sitting with you at that final table said it was luck.
		Now, all pokers, to some degree, luck.
		We'll talk about that.
		But, I mean, the fact that you coming out of nowhere could just eat the lunches of these guys who are terrors.
		They're incredible.
		And for you to come along and just do that to them, luck?
unidentified		There's definitely luck involved.
		I mean, I think I'm a decent player, a good player, but there's definitely people in that tournament that are better than me.
		They've been playing a lot longer than I have.
		I was learning on the fly.
		I think I played well, but I definitely got lucky.
		Well, you see, you give people like us hope, you know, people like myself.
		And I know I'm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How good did you think you were when you finally got to play?
unidentified		I thought I was in the top 40%, probably, the term.
		I think if you're in the top 30, 40%, you have a chance to win.
		I was sitting across from a guy for two days, Chris Gagorian, he wore a hat that said anyone can win.
		And I just kept using that as my mantra the whole way through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, anyone can win.
		And did you remain as aggressive?
		And by aggressive, folks, we mean even if you're sitting there with, you know, seven and a two or something, you still come roaring out with $100,000 or something crazy that makes everybody gulp five times.
		Did you stay that were you that aggressive straight through, or did a lot of switch-up?
unidentified		Oh, tons of switch-up.
		The very beginning, the first two days, actually, I was probably the least aggressive of anybody in the whole tournament.
		I just wanted to last as long as I could.
		That was my sole purpose, was to stay in there as long as I could.
		And I didn't really mix it up very much.
		For the first two days, I kept making money because I had good hands.
		It's not until the third day that I really start being aggressive.
		And I didn't change gears much until the third day.
		Then I started going real fast and then real slow, then back fast again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must be, well, let me ask, is it just a way to make a living?
		Or is it like when you win, whether it's just on a daily basis or even the big one that you won, is it like a high, you know, like almost like a drug high or something when you win?
		There must be some of that.
unidentified		Oh, there's definitely an adrenaline flow, A high when you win.
		I mean, even today, when you win a big tournament or you win even a small tournament, there's definitely a big high, just a sense of accomplishment.
		But then again, it's a job now, so the high is not what it was when I won the World Series.
		My adrenaline was running so hard I didn't even know what I did, but now it's more controlled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but man, of all people, I mean, you were an accountant, and an accountant works with numbers.
		It's kind of a I guess it wasn't boring for you, but you're working with numbers all the time, so you sort of understand numbers, right?
		That's your business.
		You're into numbers, you're an accountant, and I don't know how in the hell you get from an accountant to wagering hundreds of thousands at a poker table.
		It just somehow that doesn't translate.
		Or if it does, how does it translate?
unidentified		Well, you were right in the first part.
		My accounting job was pretty boring.
		Most accountants don't have a propensity or a desire to gamble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		I just was your unusual accountant.
		I grew up playing blackjack and hustling pool and playing sports and things like that, and that was something I was always drawn to.
		So I was sort of, I guess, a different, you know, I didn't want to be an accountant going through school.
		I changed midway through college and thought it was something that was easy I could just make some money at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you had the opportunity to meet Amarillo Slim?
unidentified		I have.
unidentified		I've actually met him a couple times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The guy is crazy.
		I interviewed him, and this guy over his lifetime, Chris, has bet.
		I mean, he'll bet on how to get a cat to hold on to something, you know.
		Anything in the world this guy will bet on.
		Is there much of that in you?
		I mean, not just poker.
		Have you been a gambling guy all through your accountant career?
unidentified		Yeah, all the way up until I won.
		probably a year after I won.
		Now, not much anymore.
		I mean, I used to bet, you know, what time the sun would come up.
		It didn't matter.
		I mean, I could bet on anything.
		But anymore, I don't do that.
		It's just, you know, I play poker now.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like you've sort of, well, in other words, you'd gamble on anything.
		And now that you've hit the big one, you've retreated into sort of the higher world of the bigger name poker players.
		Is that right?
unidentified		Well, it's just I have money now, and I don't want to risk it, you know, unless it's doing what I'm very comfortable doing.
		You know, a lot of things are the odds aren't exactly with you.
		And Ameril Slim is so good because when he gambles on things, he always has the odds in his favor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, since the big win, you've become far more conservative.
unidentified		Definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess they say that happens to people as they get older.
		They tend to become conservatives as they Get something.
		And see, that's got to affect your play a little bit.
unidentified		Oh, it has.
		My play has definitely slowed down.
		It could be for the worse.
		I think I'm a better player now than when I was, but I know in situations I won't take as many chances as I once did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that interesting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that take the edge off it a little bit for you, do you think?
unidentified		A little bit.
		I'm trying to get the last couple of tournaments I've done well, and I'm sort of getting back to taking a few more chances.
		What people would consider bad play is not exactly, you know, it's what I'm starting to do again a little bit more and take some more chances and push the action a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to run into the other room and take your Gus Hansen injection?
unidentified		Pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to run into the other room and take a Gus Hansen injection?
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		Yeah, you've got to, you know, grow a pair, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, that's what it takes, too, is a pair when it really gets down to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when you really do know that it's down to the end, it's just you and who was it with you at the end?
unidentified		Sam Farhal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You and Sam.
		When it's right down to you and Sam, my God, the size of the bets.
		And sometimes on TV, it looks like you Guys are just so tired of playing poker.
		It's been going on so many days.
		It's been relentless at the final table.
		It's almost like you're willing to bet, you know, don't let this go on and on and on.
		Let's get it over with.
		Go ahead.
		Make a bet.
unidentified		I think we finished like 3 a.m.
unidentified		I was so dead by the time we were done, I didn't want to see cards for a month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, it was miserable Finishing up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Where can people get your book?
		It's called Poker Champion Moneymaker.
unidentified		You can get it online at Amazon or you can get it at Barnes Noble.
		Any major bookstore should have it now.
		And my website, MoneyMakerGaming.com, will have it soon.
		We haven't put the link to it yet, but there's a lot of different places.
		Generally, any bookstore you walk into will have it now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Haven't read it yet, Chris, but let me ask you this.
		If somebody who's sort of interested in all of this right now and they're watching on TV and maybe they played a little internet Texas Hold them, could they buy this book, Chris, and after reading it, maybe would it teach them enough to go make a stab at it themselves?
		It'll help.
unidentified		I mean, basically what it is, it just tells my story and it sort of gives a play-by-play throughout the main event that I won, sort of what I was thinking in certain key hands, and basically where I came from and how I got into the World Series and a little bit of what I've done since.
unidentified		So in the thinking process of what was going through my mind during some of these hands, it will help some of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there is a lot of that.
unidentified		It's more of an entertainment read than anything else.
unidentified		Everybody that's read it, it's a really quick read and a very fun read.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I did read the first few pages, and it looks absolutely fascinating.
		So I wish you well with the book.
		And are we going to see you at another final table soon?
unidentified		You should.
		I just finished.
		I got a fifth place in one.
		I don't know if it's going to be on TV or not.
		I don't know if it's going to be picked up for network or not.
		But then I'm probably planning three or four more coming up here soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Chris.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, buddy.
unidentified		Hey, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
		Chris Moneymaker won the 2003 World Series poker from the high desert, middle of the night.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I'm Ardell coming up in a moment.
unidentified		The world of ufology and Timothy Good.
		Sweet Jesus made of the end.
		Whoever mind you deserve me.
		I travel the world as I've never seen.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Come on, man.
		Come on, man.
		Be it silent, sound, smell, or touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak when roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing.
		All these things in our memories All from the user To come to us To find Find Find as you saw Take this place On the street Just for me
		Take a break Through my eyes Up I see It's for me Want to take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll-free 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A page in ufology is about to be turned.
		More ways than one.
		Coming this Thursday, the ABC Television Network will do a two-hour special with Peter Jennings that'll begin at 8 o'clock.
		And all of you out there who have DVRs, you want to enter that very quickly so that you don't miss it.
		Tapes set and all the rest of it.
		Two hours on UFOs on ABC nationwide prime time.
		It's about time, don't you think?
		That is the subject we will engage in now on Coast.
		Timothy Good has conducted worldwide research on the UFO phenomenon, including interviewing key witnesses and discussing the subject with astronauts, military and intelligence specialists, pilots, politicians, scientists, has lectured at universities, schools, at many organizations, and has even been invited for discussions at the Pentagon in 1998 and at the headquarters of the French Air Force in 2002.
		He has acted as consultant for several U.S. congressional investigations.
		He's born in London.
		In fact, he's in London now.
		Timothy Good gained a scholarship as a violinist to the Royal Academy of Music, where he won prizes for solo, chamber, and orchestral playing.
		He played for 14 years with the London Symphony Orchestra.
		He has also freelanced as a session player for television, dramas, commercials, feature films, and recordings with pop musicians.
		For example, Phil Collins, George Harrison, Elton John, Paul McCartney, and Rod Stewart, and even you too.
		So, my God, what a background for somebody into ufology.
		Coming up in a moment, Timothy Good.
		Radio The who's who of ufology definitely was visited by ABC Television for this forthcoming documentary.
		And certainly the name Timothy Goode is smack dab in the middle of all of that.
		So I suspect they probably reached out to you, Timothy, one way or the other.
		Did you speak to ABC?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I spoke to one of the researchers who just asked my opinion and if I could put them in touch with certain key witnesses and things like that.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think I just helped them with one case, actually, so that was the extent of my involvement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they spent two days with me, Timothy, two days here at my home.
unidentified		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty incredible.
		About 30 seconds, probably on TV.
		Anyway, the really important thing here is that it is going to be a two-hour big network ABC prime-time documentary on UFOs.
		And the big question on everybody's mind, Timothy, even my mind, you never know what television is going to do.
		It's being built.
		You heard the ad for it run a minute ago.
		It's being built as a serious investigative piece on ufology.
		Any idea?
		Do you know how it's going to come out, how they're going to treat it?
		Do you have any sense?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I know nothing other than their press release art, I'm afraid.
		But who knows?
		If you recall, way back in the late 1980s, do you remember UFO Cover Up Live, which was, I think, a two-hour production airing in Moscow and Washington simultaneously?
		And there was quite a bit of material forthcoming from some retired military guys, if you recall.
		And we had the Condor and Falcon episodes and everything.
		So who knows?
		I suspect, however, it'll be far more conventional than that and a serious, for once, journalistic attempt to get at the facts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope you're correct.
		How in the world did you first become interested in the world of ufology?
		That doesn't seem from, you know, the background of being a violinist and it just doesn't mix somehow, yet it did.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, I've always been passionate about aircraft and space travel art.
		So it was a natural progression, particularly when in 1955, that's 50 years ago, I was given the book, The Flying Saucers Are Real, written by Major Donald Kehoe, of course.
		And this was given to me by an American cousin who said, Timothy, you know, you like airplanes and stuff.
		It's time you learned about flying saucers.
		So that is really where the interest was stimulated, and I haven't looked back since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In America, around the world, we have had many very, very credible sightings by pilots.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many, roughly?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to Dr. Dick Haynes, Richard Haynes, who runs the reporting center for anomalous phenomena, NARCAP, he thinks there's been about 3,400, and that might have increased by now since 1920.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		It's a great deal.
		And I think there have probably been a great deal more because many pilots do not report their sightings.
		Civilian pilots don't report them for fear.
		It's a bad career move, particularly if they're in a major airline.
		We found that out.
		And there are, in fact, regulation orders, procedure orders.
		They were published in America way back in the 1950s for the reporting of these things, and the press was to be avoided.
		But as far as the military concerned, of course, there are strict regulations, and many, many encounters remain classified at an above-top-secret level in the interest of national security.
		And I can understand that because, as General Chidlaw said many years ago, and he was head of Air Defense Command at one time, we've lost many men and planes trying to intercept these objects.
		And that is a fact.
		And I think that's quite disturbing.
		There have also been disturbing near collisions with airliners as well as military aircraft.
		And this would be disturbing if all the facts were known.
		But I think we have to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Timothy, it's particularly disturbing in view of the fact that the United States government just simply dismisses UFOs.
		And I think they've said they're not a threat to national security.
		So they don't chase them.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do.
		And people say to me, you know, Tim, why...
		If these things are so super technologically advanced, and they've got presumably very adequate means of protecting themselves, why do we continue to send jets up chasing them?
		My answer to that is that we require as much data from these craft as possible.
		We need gun camera film.
		We need radar signatures.
		We need communication signatures.
		We need all sorts of things across the spectrum to check and double-check against previous experiences, just how near we can get to these things, what the effects are, and we can learn a great deal more about their technologies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Timothy, you mentioned gun cameras.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to me that through all the years we should have gun camera footage.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		We do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we do have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of...
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		We have a lot of it.
		Oh, we...
		It's just...
		Most of it's being withheld.
		I spoke to a senior official in the Ministry of Defense.
		This is before Nick Pope, by the way, one of Nick Pope's predecessors.
		Nick headed the UFO desk at the Ministry of Defense from 1991 to 1994,
		back 20 years prior to that Ralph Noyes headed the same department and he told me that part of his briefing was to be shown military gun camera clips of UFOs and he saw them he said they weren't absolutely sensational by any means but these are things that you know have either been lost conveniently or destroyed or just completely withheld in the interests of security.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Timothy, speaking of security, I'm in America where we still have the First Amendment.
		You're in Britain, though, where there are different kinds of laws with regard to disclosure of secret things.
		Isn't that right?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Generally speaking, records are withheld, certain military records and others are withheld typically for 30 years, but often to 50 years, sometimes 100 years, and sometimes some things never get released at all.
		A classic example is that in the last few years, we've had some top secret documents relating to Britain's, the British government's Flying Saucer Working Party, as it was called, which was established in 1950 under Prime Minister Clement Attlee.
		And those were only released in 2002, because they date back to the early 1950s.
		In fact, they were released, I think, 2001.
		And there's still things being withheld.
		And we do now have a Freedom of Information Act.
		Now, you've had one for some, what, 35 years?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A long time, yes.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I guess.
		Well, this was passed by Act of Parliament, and it's now in place as of January 1st, 2005.
		And the Ministry of Defense, anticipating that the cranky ufologists would be bombarding them with requests for all the UFO data spent months, if not years, actually weeding out tons of stuff and dishing it out so that this would sort of preempt all the inquiries from us guys.
		And a lot of stuff has been released.
		Nick Pope tells me that most of it's innocuous, but it has actually generated a tremendous amount of interest in the press more than any other aspect of the Freedom of Information Act.
		And just last month, there were huge articles in the Times, the Telegraph, the Financial Times, the Independent.
		Those are our main newspapers and some of the smaller papers, local papers.
		But tremendous interest.
		And there was a huge article by Nick on the release of these things.
		And interestingly, those who are determined still to debunk everything, such as The Times, they had an editorial.
		First of all, there was an article in The Times which ignored all the really good reports by RAF people, the good reports, impressive reports by pilots and other military officers, which really are quite startling cases.
		It ignored those and concentrated on the lights in the sky and the balloons and the kites and said how Britain's ex-files said that UFOs were just a waste of time.
		That was the headline.
		And the editorial actually said, pie in the sky, flying saucers are close encounters with the human imagination.
		Well, I really, you know, that really got me going, and I fired off an email to the Times editorial, but it was never published, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		So there's a lot of interest and in, as I say, in the UFO aspect of the Freedom of Information Act more than anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that the United States government and your government are hand in hand on the whole UFO thing?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Up to a point, Art.
		What I think happened is that since the late 1940s, the CIA came across to Britain and chatted with intelligence counterparts over here, Air Force people as well, and they, I think, suggested that we play down the really good sightings.
		I'm sure of this because the Flying Saucer Working Party seems to have had a remit to debunk, especially the best sightings.
		Like in 1950, in August 1950, there was a low-level sighting at the Farnborough air base where a lot of test pilots were based.
		And this thing came over at low-level, an actual craft accompanied by hissing and crackling sounds.
		It was seen by one of their top pilots and other personnel.
		And the thing was repeated at a further distance about three weeks later, seen by many test pilots.
		And those that were interviewed were told not to discuss it with anyone, not even among themselves.
		And the whole thing was debunked.
		And you can see that in the reports where they say, you know, the poor chap, obviously they were just seeing conventional aircraft.
		I mean, you know, and they were absolutely outraged when these reports came out a few years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that certainly sounds like the good old USA to me.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Definitely, in my opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think, Timothy, that our mutual good friends, the French, appear to be so much more open, and they really do, about ufology?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not that they don't have difficulties there, believe me.
		I've spoken to officials, military and otherwise, and they are very concerned about ridicule.
		Because even in the French Ministry of Defense, there are sort of mixed views about the subject and there's a need to know and all that sort of thing.
		So most people don't actually know what's going on and they tend to ridicule those who take a serious interest in it.
		But they are more open.
		It's true.
		I mean, they have this group, CEPRA, is the acronym, and they still investigate cases.
		But the real work is still done behind the scenes, as in other countries.
		So it's not as if it's sort of total disclosure in France.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were to look around at the various countries of the world, including Brazil, Japan, I mean, just all around the world, South Africa, what country do you think is the most open about UFO incidents?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, in recent years, I would say Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Russia?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a great deal of stuff has come out there from, you know, high-ranking generals have come forward.
		They've appeared in several documentaries, including in The Excellent Out of the Blue and other documentaries that I've been involved with.
		And it's quite amazing some of these people have come forward.
		And Gorbachev, as you know, has come out with several statements acknowledging that he discussed the extraterrestrial threat with President Reagan at the Geneva Summit in 1985.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a theoretical question or something beyond theoretical question?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I wish I knew.
		Because he didn't exactly pass it off.
		He said the United States President and I discussed the question of an extraterrestrial threat and agreed that in the event of an invasion, the Soviet Union and the United States would join forces to repel such an invasion.
		And he went on to add, you know, I don't dispute the hypothesis, but I think it's too early yet to worry about such a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you believe we had an agreement with the then Soviets to join forces in the case of an invasion?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think it's likely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That's pretty interesting.
		I know that President Reagan, of course, made several statements alluding to the possibility that there could be others.
		There could even be a mutual threat.
		I recall his saying that and the shock it brought on when he did.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, his interest goes back to 1974, if not earlier, when he was governor of California, because there was a UFO sighting while he was flying in the governor's plane, and he ordered the pilot to chase it.
		Of course, they couldn't get anywhere near it, but it created a lot of excitement.
		And there was actually a Wall Street journalist on board the plane, and Reagan was all excited, because I think he's had a previous sighting, and he talked about his great interest in the subject and so forth.
		And I think in that very important speech before the United Nations General Assembly in 1987, I think it was September 1987, he says, you know, I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat.
		And yet I ask, is not an alien force among us?
		And then he went on quickly to add, you know, what could be more alien than war and the threat of nuclear war and so on.
		But I think he was trying to tell us something.
		I'm absolutely convinced of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that a U.S. President or even a British Prime Minister can take office and on their first day tell their aide, look, here I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want everything on my desk that we know about UFOs and I want it there in the morning.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		They can try.
		President Clinton tried.
		He didn't get anywhere fast, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, maybe he did find out everything, and maybe that everything included, you know, not informing the American people for the following reasons.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		That may be the case, Art.
		I honestly don't know.
		I suspect he was not told everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, last Sunday, we repeated a program I did with John Lear, who took me through what's called Lear Test.
		And he went through this long litany of, listen here, Art, here are the things.
		Could you tell the public the following?
		And he named off about 25 things that obviously you could never, ever tell the American public and have a shred of credibility left.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely true.
		I wholeheartedly agree.
		I don't know all the reasons for the cover-up, Art, but I suspect that some of the reasons would be disturbing to the body politic, as it's often been said, and to society in general.
		It's much better just to let the facts leak out gradually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Timothy, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest from London, England is Timothy Good.
		On a Saturday night, Sunday morning for some of you, this is Coast to Coast AM, doing what it does best in the darkness.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM
		Coast to Coast AM Don't you love her, badly?
		Don't you need her, baby?
		Don't you love her, babe?
		Tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her, badly?
		Don't you love her face?
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
		Like she did one thousand times before.
		Don't you love her ways?
		Tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country's print access number, pressing option 5, and violating call 3 800 8930903.
		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
		Coast to coast again with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I think seven parts deserve galloping.
		Good morning, everybody.
		We are, you know, being visited.
		You don't really question that, do you?
		They are up there.
		I know.
		I had one right above my head.
		It's kind of hard to deny when that happens.
unidentified		to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Be right back.
unidentified		Never wonder who...
unidentified		...and you're not going to be able to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure is interesting.
		Timothy Good just suggested that it's a trickle-down sort of slow release policy regarding this information that absolutely couldn't be released en masse.
		It just couldn't.
		It would upset the whole world would go on tilt.
		And so I've wondered a little bit over the years, and I've been doing this for a lot of years now, folks, whether I could actually be part of that process, an unwitting dupe, as it were, trickling out information that the government wants trickled out.
		Of course, that would make many other people, including the ABC Television Network, part of that process.
		Timothy, have you ever wondered if you were part of that process?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, in fact, I have the last chapter of my last book, and I'm going to send you my last book, Unearthly Disclosure Art.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you have it, but I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do not, and I would love it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And moreover, if you could sign it, I would be sorry.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		In the last chapter, which is entitled Resident Aliens, I disclose information which has come to me via a high-ranking source who worked at the Pentagon and the U.S. Air Force Air Staff and Joint Staff.
		And this information was given to a friend of mine, an ex-Army intelligence guy, who's a journalist in the aerospace world.
		Between 1986 and 1989, he was given a great deal of information about what was actually going on.
		And I'm quite sure this was part of an official leak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of that can you relate here?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's tons of it.
		I mean, what do you want to know about bases?
		I mean, I've been told, for example, aliens have been coming to Earth for a very long time.
		They've established permanent bases here in Australia, the Caribbean, Pacific Ocean, Soviet Union, and in the United States.
		And specific locations are given in some cases.
		Now, that's just for starters, but obviously there is an amount of disinformation.
		And the question is, how does one sort the wheat from the chaff?
		There's a great deal of information.
		We've apparently some military and scientific elements in the intelligence community have established communication with ETs.
		There has been a transfer of their technology.
		We are working on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's be clear on this, Timothy.
		I asked you the question about the President for a reason, you know, whether he could demand everything that we know about UFOs and get it.
		Of course, we can't know the answer to that, but I guess the bigger question is, Timothy, is it your opinion that there's a group outside of elected government, government's knowledge, that sort of a majestic 12 or its equivalent.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Or its equivalent.
		But of course, what I was told that, for example, at least 100 people in OSI, which is the Air Force Intelligence Office of Special Investigations, there are at least 100 people,
		I'm going back again to 1986, 1989, because that's when this information was given, there were at least 100 people in OSI who had knowledge in varying degrees about the extraterrestrial presence and were actually dealing with it.
		When I was in the Pentagon in 1998, at the invitation of General Kenneth Israel, who was then director of the Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office, as it was then called, they at that time handled the unmanned spy planes, the UAVs, unmanned aerial vehicles.
		He indicated to me that, in his opinion, this was more a policing task as opposed to national security.
		And he therefore suggested to me or hinted that OSI was much more likely to be in charge of the investigations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A policing task.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		That was his opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As in.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Make of that what you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As in cleaning up, as in sanitizing some incident.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, OSI has all sorts of tasks, you know, other than some of the more obvious ones.
		I mean, they're into counterintelligence, they're into investigations, they're into problems with people violating their national security odes and things like that.
		So I think it's interesting from that point of view.
		But I was given a great deal of information, really, and you'll learn that in that last chapter.
		And there are concerns about what the aliens are doing.
		It's not a question.
		I'm told of one species coming here.
		There are several.
		And more important, there appears to be a conflict of interest between some of these beings regarding our planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Can you describe the various motivations of these groups?
		If you understand that there are conflicts, then that would imply we understand something of the motivations.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can only speak very broadly here, Art.
		There's definitely several races.
		I mean, goodness knows, I wouldn't put a number on it as to who's been coming here and for what purpose over the years, because it's been going on for thousands of years.
		But from what I gather, some of them definitely have a vested interest in this planet and its resources.
		And there is concern about the abduction process, which it is believed by them that it is definitely related to some sort of hybridization program.
		Tell me about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are the resources of this planet oil and metals and that sort of thing, or are they more likely the human occupants of Earth?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think more likely the human occupants.
		They appear to need animal materials as well, some of them.
		I do think there could be an interest in some of our materials and minerals here.
		Some of them have suggested that.
		Some people who've established communication with humans have established that they need stuff here.
		And there appear to be a number of very large undersea bases which are causing disturbances.
		Now, as it was put to me, you know, they're concerned that the fact that some of the aliens are, quote, messing around with tectonic plates in the Pacific Ocean.
		Now, that opens all sorts of cans of worms, as I think recent events might suggest.
		I'm not suggesting for one moment that the tsunami had anything to do with aliens, but I'm just saying that apparently, according to this source, some aliens are messing around with tectonic plates, and they have some large undersea bases.
		Now, why are they doing that?
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Timothy, but a natural inference from that statement would be that there could be a connection between the tsunami and messing around with the Pacific's tectonic plates.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		There could be.
		There could be.
		Or they might even be messing around with the tectonic plates for their own purposes, to protect their bases or to protect the Earth.
		You know, that's the good news.
		I mean, there's always good news and bad news.
		It's like whatever threat is posed by aliens, we have to look at the positive side of things, the fact that they've shown their ability to paralyze our nuclear missile bases at the drop of a hat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have shown that, too, haven't they?
		Yes.
		Would you please explain to the audience a couple of incidences where that occurred?
		This is pretty heavy stuff, folks.
		It's undeniable.
		I've seen specials on television about what you're about to hear about, and it seems undeniable.
		Timothy, how good is the evidence that this really happened and what happened and when?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, there have been numerous witnesses who've come forward, Robert Salas, for one.
		I haven't gotten the book to hand.
		I've just received a new book by Robert Salas and another author about those extraordinary events, which is very impressive.
		And during the next break, I'll go and get it because I really want to plug that book because I'm most impressed by what I read about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the bottom line is, if I recall correctly, the U.S. had a couple of missile launches.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		They had intrusions.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		There have been numerous intrusions at nuclear missile sites in North Dakota, all over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, they were disabled, I believe.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		They were disabled, yes, and it's happened in the Soviet Union, too, in the former Soviet Union.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm recalling this TV special in which some ICBMs in Russia actually went into a launch sequence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I vaguely recall - I vaguely recall that art, but I can't confirm that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did the U.S. military capture an alien spacecraft before Roswell?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, last year, and continuing now, I've been investigating an extraordinary case reported, goes back to August of 1945, when in San Antonio, not Texas, San Antonio, New Mexico,
		which is not that far from the White Sands missile range, two boys encountered an apparent crashed craft on one of the boys' father's ranches.
		Jose Padilla was one of the boys, and it was his father's ranch.
		And the other witness was Remichio Baca, Rimi Baca.
		And I went out to meet them in June.
		At least I met Rimi.
		I have not met Jose yet, but we've been in communication.
		It's an extraordinary story.
		They were quite alarmed by the incident.
		They claimed to have seen a large area where in this canyon where this craft had come down and a gouge in the earth as long as a football field.
		It was vaguely circular with a sort of type of fin on top, but nothing like an aircraft fin.
		They've made a model of it.
		I've seen it.
		And they headed back, worried about casualties and so forth, because they'd seen, when they got as close as they dared, some sort of strange-looking creatures moving around inside it, like children.
		And they had no hair on.
		They couldn't see much more detail than that.
		And they went back and told Padilla Sr., who told the police.
		And they all drove toward the crash site two days later, but the wreckage was nowhere to be seen.
		But suddenly, it reappeared.
		It had been, apparently someone had made an attempt to cover it up with dirt and debris.
		And then later on, the craft, I'm cutting a long story short here, the craft was apparently recovered.
		And the boys at several stages got a chance to witness these things from a hidden area.
		And this thing was loaded onto a tall boy.
		And as I say, they were watching from this secluded position.
		And soldiers were throwing bits down a crevice so they wouldn't have to carry them all the way down.
		It rings true, in a way.
		A lot of information forthcoming.
		One of the boys, the older boy, Padia, at one stage when the craft was unguarded, clambered inside a gouge in the opening.
		And on a sort of area there, he managed to extract a device.
		Now, I have seen that device and handled it and photographed it.
		The unfortunate thing is, and it's, as I refer to as the fly in the ointment, is that it does look very, very conventional.
		It looks like some kind of bracket with space provisions for fasteners or screws or whatever.
		It's about 11 inches long.
		It has been analyzed, and it does appear to be conventional aluminum.
		So that's a problem.
		But on the other hand, we have the testimony of these two witnesses, and they are absolutely adamant that this thing did event.
		So there is this contradiction which I'm left with, and it is a stumbling block for me, I have to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Roswell itself, Timothy?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Roswell happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It happened.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Roswell happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Straight out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really happened.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I mean, all the testimony, sworn affidavits from all those high-ranking people.
		You know, we have Dubose, who's often overlooked, General Dubose, who said that the cover-up was ordered by General Clements McMullen at the time, and there were very, very good reasons.
		They said, look, you know, we've just been through a world war with atomic bombs on Japan, firebombing of great cities, destruction on an unprecedented worldwide scale.
		Then came this flying saucer business, and it was simply too much for the public to have to deal with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was Roswell the beginning?
		And sometime between Roswell and now, when did our governments, respectively, recognize, meet, even make deals with some of these creatures?
		And did that, in fact, happen?
		I'm sure you believe it.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think it did happen.
		I don't know about a deal, but I think we certainly, there was an exchange of information.
		There was a survivor, by all accounts.
		I'm not the only person to.
		Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Sixth Man to Walk on the Moon, has also established very good contacts in the military and intelligence communities.
		And he's also been told that there was a survivor who lasted a certain number of years.
		And I believe that.
		I think official interest began well before Oswell, certainly during World War II, because all these pilots were reporting these things, not just foo fighters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there's been official contact?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I say that, I mean, I guess more than just with a crash victim, for example, has there been some sort of communication between species?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I'm bearing in mind the story about President Eisenhower in 1954 at what was then Murock, later Edwards Air Force Base.
		I think there could be some truth to that story.
		And I know from people I've talked to, people say, you know, why don't they contact our government leaders, our military leaders?
		Well, I think they have done.
		but those are the people that are least likely to come out with the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you look at...
		That's quite all right.
		When you look at the Earth, and you talk about minerals or you talk about what's here that's not on Mars and Venus and all the other planets that we're now discovering with Hubble and other telescopes, all these planets around all these suns.
		But the unusual thing about Earth that really stands out would be us.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think Earth is unique, not just in our solar system, but maybe for light years around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More than the iron, more than the uranium, it would be the intelligent life on Earth.
		It seems to me that would stand out like a beacon.
		And that would account for their interest.
		That would be my guess, anyway.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		And the interest was definitely accelerated in World War II because of our nuclear developments, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder what the current state of understanding between ourselves and whoever else it might be is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have clues about that?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		No, I wish I did.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have guesses about it?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		It would just be pure speculation, Art.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I prefer to deal with what few facts we can be sure of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I know that there is a lot of conversations you have with people that probably information comes to you that you wouldn't put on the air.
		Yes.
		And from that, I thought you might have some educated guesses.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but before I exploded with my coughing fit, I was about to tell you of Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley, who was an air quality, like a kind of military attaché to the Queen and Prince Philip for seven years, back in 1954.
		And he was also Deputy Chief of Stripe Command and a decorated war hero, flown 90 different types of aircraft.
		And he claims that in 1954, he had a two-hour meeting with an extraterrestrial being arranged via a British Army general.
		And this took place in the middle of London in the presence of a witness.
		And he wrote up that story in his autobiography, Sounds from Another Room, and he gave me some additional information, which I published in my book, Alien Base.
		And it's absolutely extraordinary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell us about...
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this being appeared human-like.
		He didn't say, I'm an alien.
		He could, the first disturbing thing that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's top of the hour.
		Hold tight.
		When we come back, we'll have a full hour.
		Good thing about Long Forum Talk Radio, you can get into some of these things, and we will.
unidentified		Now it begins, now that you're gone, needles and pins, what have you done?
		Watching back up, till you return.
		Lighting back door, and watching you burn.
		Now it begins, day after day.
		This is my night.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, when it comes to the details of a two-hour meeting with an alien being, then I have time, we all have time, for some of the good details of that.
		coming right up Tomorrow night, in the world of, in the psychic world, the real McCoy is here.
		Russell Targ is here.
		And believe me when I tell you, he's the real McCoy.
		It's going to be an interesting, very interesting Sunday, and certainly is a fascinating Saturday night.
		Timothy, welcome back.
		A two-hour meeting.
		If there was a two-hour meeting, I would like to know the details of that meeting.
		I would like to know as much as I could what was said and what was answered and whatever you can tell me.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing that Sir Peter noticed during this meeting was that this guy, whoever he was, was able to read his mind.
		And later on, Sir Peter told me, he didn't write about this in his book, but he told me that what disturbed him more than anything else was the fact that this guy knew all Britain's top secret nuclear secrets.
		And, well, he began by explaining that man was now striving to sort of break his earthly bonds and travel to the moon and planets beyond.
		We were developing that there was a dark age on Earth.
		We were prepared to sacrifice almost anything, the natural environment, animals and humans.
		And there was a dreadful specter of blowing up our world.
		So they were concerned, it seems, about that.
		He went on to the origins of life in the universe, stated that most of the UFOs we see are robot-controlled.
		Some are manned in order to oversee the whole program and to ensure that the probes do not land or crash by accident.
		And they spoke that there have been, since time immemorial, observers of our planet, vessels out of the sky bringing strange visitors, and that contact has been established on a very selective basis where they judge that such contact could not harm either party.
		And apparently they say they've studied Earth for a very long time.
		They have extraordinary technological abilities, very highly developed mental powers, including extra sensory, thought reading, hypnosis.
		And this I find particularly interesting, the ability to use different dimensions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, I was going to ask you somewhere down the line that, you know, beings coming from light years and light years away seems incredible.
		Maybe it can be done, but it seems incredible.
		But if we just, you know, if we had someone come from another dimension, they would appear to us to be as alien as if they had come from another planet.
		And of course, you know, you just hop, skip, and a jump from another dimension if you know how to do it.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, the implication in this case is that these beings are related.
		Some of them at any rate are related to us genetically.
		What I've heard from other sources is that some of these highly advanced beings are indeed responsible for upgrading humanity, upgrading the development of human beings going Way back tens of thousands of years.
		As to the dimensional aspect, I don't doubt that there are beings who exist solely in other dimensions, but the implication here is that this guy was quite physical, quite solid, but that their races are so advanced that they can manipulate dimensions.
		And I think this happens with their spacecraft.
		There's a number of intriguing accounts by people claiming contact to say that it is a question not just of linear travel.
		I'm sure you've heard all this before, all you listeners, and you, of course, are, that they manipulate space-time, as Einstein called it, by folding it rather than traveling in a linear mode.
		So that to manipulate space-time is to manipulate a dimension.
		And I think this would account for their extraordinarily rapid disappearances sometimes.
		Sometimes maybe they're just going so fast in the blink of an eye, but I think at other times they're just translating into another dimension to get where they want to in maybe split seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's jump back to something you said.
		You said that we have some relationship to them genetically.
		Boy, that sure is one sentence that covers a lot of territory, Timothy.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, of course, this has been mentioned by a number of researchers going way back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, are they our creators?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I understand is that they genetically upgraded the existing beings on this planet, the basic humans when they first appeared.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		The basic creatures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there was already life existent on Earth when they arrived, and they did the upgrade.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I mean, we were just vaguely out of the ape stage.
		And so it is said, so it is said by a lot of contactees.
		I have a lot of reports of this in Alien Base, my book, which specializes in contact stories.
		And there's a marvelous story by Albert Coe, who encountered an alien being and his spacecraft in Canada in 1920.
		And he had meetings throughout his life with this person and with one or more of these people.
		And I find that story very compelling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that does make them our creators, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they upgraded us, interesting phrase, then they took us from what was not intelligent life and did the upgrade that made us who we are, making them our creators.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think to that extent you're right, yes.
		And I think that this is part of a sort of colonization process, if you like.
		I think we were colonized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these kinds of stories, this two-hour conversation and others, have led you to this position?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
		One of the most compelling contacts for me was a lady I knew for many, many, several decades, in fact.
		She's passed on now, unfortunately, but she had contact back in 1963 with several human-type extraterrestrials who were engaged in a very delicate operation which involved the use of some of our top scientists, some of whom actually traveled to their bases.
		And they had bases, some of these people, for example, in South America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've heard of a lot of recent incidents in South America, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've looked into those?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		I think there are probably a number of alien bases in South America and offshore.
		There was the extraordinary case of the guy, Ludwig Palman, a German businessman who in the late 60s encountered a group of these beings and actually visited their base, which was in the jungle in the Amazon area.
		Extraordinary story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you would think that the United States and Russia with all these spy satellites would be clearly on to an alien base?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, it depends what the counterintelligence is of the aliens in terms of disguising their technologies and bases.
		So I'm quite sure they're capable of dealing with that.
		But yes, I'm quite sure, in fact, I'm 100% sure that some governments do actually actively use their spy satellites for trying to detect undersea and other activities on this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, interestingly, the big project called HAARP, the HARP project in Alaska, one of the stated goals of HARP is underground tunnels and bunkers.
		They're looking for them with this wild project up in Alaska.
		Heard about that?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I've heard about it, but I haven't gone into that in sufficient degree to be able to comment on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Might be worth looking into on your part, because underground tunnels and bunkers, that's very much part of what their original charge is.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Richard Sorder, I believe, has done a great deal of work on that, if I'm correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if we have a genetic relationship to them.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		To some of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To some of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, you know, this does beg questions about all these religions that man has on earth and these concepts of a creator leading you down that path.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's undeniable.
		I mean, you've only got to look at the Bible.
		I mean, there are reports apparently in the Hindu Vedas and the Brahmin records.
		But the Bible is absolutely chock full of extraordinary incidences of strange beings who mated with people, who produced people who lived for many hundreds of years, apparently, if you believe it.
		I wasn't there.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all true.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		And then, you know, Ezekiel, Elijah and the flying chariot, all these things, descriptions of strange beings.
		And then the New Testament, I mean, Jesus, the star of Bethlehem, whatever that was, it wasn't a star.
		It was very specific.
		It pointed out a particular building.
		You have Jesus' phenomenal abilities, telepathy, levitation, healing.
		And the resurrection, which even the Catholic Church, I believe, acknowledges to be a bodily, a physical resurrection, accompanied by shining beings, and then the reappearance to Paul on the road to Damascus.
		You remember that story, the dazzling light, which blinded the soldiers?
		They couldn't hear anything, but Jesus spoke out of this blinding light in the sky, and so on and so forth.
		And I think the angel Gabriel might well have been maybe something to do with artificial insemination might explain the so-called Immaculate Conception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it has to be said that so many of the modern sightings and close contact sightings seem to involve reproduction, a study of reproduction, reproductive organs, when you get stories from people who have been abducted, very frequently.
		You know, I was really surprised, Timothy, at the amount of sexual content in abduction stories when you really get down to brass tax with abductees.
		Yes.
		It's remarkable.
		Definitely.
		Any guesses about what they're trying to do?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think hybridization is the name of the game.
		The question is, is it for their benefit or ours?
		They often say, abductees say, oh, you know, they were lovely beings.
		They said, oh, it's all just for us, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the time, Timothy.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think it's for their benefit, more likely.
		I spoke to an abductee in Puerto Rico.
		Puerto Rico is a country I visited on seven occasions.
		And I met a contactee there who claims to have been taken to an alien base within Puerto Rico.
		And he saw many different types of craft in this giant cavern within the mountains.
		And they said, you know, nothing to be afraid of.
		You know, this is something we want to help you out and so forth.
		And they mentioned, I believe, the hybridization.
		And I asked this abductee what he thought the true purpose of this hybridization process was.
		And he was convinced it was for their own benefit to help them to adapt to this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've interviewed many, many abductees.
		And the vast majority of them, Timothy, say that these are our friends.
		These are beneficial beings who want nothing but the very best for us.
		And their treatment while being abducted was absolutely superb.
		Not a bad word to say about them, Timothy.
		But to put it crudely, their minds have been screwed with.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, there are very few researchers in the United States.
		I don't know about Great Britain, but you sound like you might be one of them who aren't so absolutely sure these are warm, fuzzy creatures with our best interests in mind.
		That would be you, then.
		Yep.
		So if they don't have our best interests in mind, what do you think their agenda?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, Arc.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Honestly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's, of course, all the big questions just sort of almost can't be answered.
		The who, the what, the where, the when.
		Almost none of this can be answered.
		Now, it'll be interesting to see what sort of conclusion a large network investigation like ABC's will come up with.
		I've got little hints that they may be suggesting at the end of it all, and this is just guesstimates from the Internet folks, that there needs to be a more serious investigation into all of this.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That it simply has been laughed at too much, and there's some serious stuff at question here, at issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that's all they do at the very least, that is a great step forward.
		While I remember it, Art, may I mention this book now about the 1967 missile incidents, particularly at Marstrom Air Force Base.
		It's called Faded Giant, and it's by Robert Salas, S-A-L-A-S, and James Klotz, K-L-O-T-Z, with a foreword by Raymond Fowler.
		It's privately published, and it is available from Arcturus Books.
		Signed copies are available from Arcturus Books, and I'll give you the email there.
		It's R. Girard.
		That's R-G-I-R-A-R-D-321 at AOL.com.
		And it's a very good book.
		They've got a lot of documents and case reports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, give us an idea of reproduced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's the story of.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		It's a story specifically about the events at Maelstrom Air Force Base in 1967 when the Minutemen nuclear missiles were actually paralyzed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Deactivated.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Deactivated.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Precisely so, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have interviewed some of the individuals who were involved in that, and I absolutely, completely, 100% believe that it occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and Kraft were seen.
unidentified		It was just...
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		There was a number of strategic air command bases where the Minutemen were deployed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose one could...
		However, the real flap started and has never let up since what?
		Since Roswell's.
		Well, gee whizzing.
		Even before the atomic bomb.
		The atomic bomb.
		Now, that must have been A real marker in time and space when we lit one off.
		Wouldn't you think?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I would think so, definitely.
		Absolutely, definitely.
		It would also explain the concentration of sightings in the New Mexico area as all the testimony from the military and scientific people who were summoned urgently to meetings in the 1940s about all these strange objects hovering over our rocket sites and nuclear sites.
		Well, they continue to do that, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That began the age when we had the ability to destroy ourselves, to utterly destroy the capability of life continuing on this planet.
		That's what began then.
		So any alien race monitoring us in any way would have, at that moment, taken notice.
		Do you think that's what happened?
unidentified		Yes.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
		I'm not saying it's the only reason.
		That's the reason for the acceleration of activity since World War II.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In everything that you've heard, Timothy, about these meetings with the others, how convinced do they seem to be that we're going to blow ourselves up?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd always like to keep positive about that, but I like to think that they might prevent us doing so, particularly if they have a vested interest in their own security and our nuclear weapons.
		Because it's often been said, and it was certainly said a lot in the late 40s and 50s and 60s with the contactees I've met.
		They were told that we don't really know quite what we're doing and that the effects of these explosions continue into the solar system.
		They don't just affect the Earth by any means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, apparently.
		I don't know.
		That's what they've said anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if perhaps they affect other dimensions as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In nuclear power, exactly.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		That's another possibility that I've considered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		My guest is Timothy Goode.
		Stay right there, Timothy, bottom of the hour.
		Timothy Goode wrote Above Top Secret in so many other books, so many other books, that by now you must have heard of his name.
		Certainly if you're into ufology, you know Timothy Goode.
		If not, keep listening, and we'll expand as we go along.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM, rocking the night away with information you just won't get anywhere else.
unidentified		What do you do when you get lonely?
		No one waiting by your side.
		You've been loved, I've watched you long.
		You know it's just a foolish man.
		You've got me all my ears.
		So
		Some velvet morning when I'm astray, I'm gonna open up your gate and make me tell you about Baba How she gave me life How she made it
		Some velvet mornin'when I'm straight Flowers growin'on a hill Drivin'flies and daffodils Learn from us very much Look at
		us but do not touch favourite To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		You ever wonder about this?
		I wonder if we were the first.
		You ever wonder if we were the first?
		Maybe there were other technological civilizations.
		I mean, think about it.
		If our civilization was utterly destroyed today, how many millions or even billions of years would have to pass before there wouldn't be any trace of us left at all?
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Timothy Good, all the way, by the way, from Great Britain.
		So when we do get to the telephone stage of this, I want to remind the audience that even though we've got a superlatively good connection with Great Britain, there is a time differential of a fraction of a second or better where you Can sort of talk on top of each other if you're not very careful.
		So, what I would ask, and I know a lot of you are going to have questions for Timothy, what I would ask is that you formulate your question and sort of get it out and then allow him to answer so that we don't get into a situation where we're all interrupting each other.
		That's a necessity of the transatlantic connection.
		Timothy, welcome back.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There has been a fairly recent January 2000 encounter between some airliners, I guess, in Dublin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there an update on that?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		It took place in January the 4th of last year when pilots of a British Midland Airbus saw a flashing bright triangular object take off from the ground as they were passing 3,000 feet over the Slane area, which is near Dublin.
		And they saw that this UFO, because they were on the landing pattern, they were about five or six miles behind an aircraft in front.
		The aircraft in front was approached by this large, flashing, bright triangular object.
		And apparently, the crew experienced a power drain.
		A purple glow was surrounding this.
		It was a Boeing 737400 series jet of Aer Lingus.
		It flew in front of the aircraft, forcing the pilots to change course to avoid a collision.
		The jet apparently experienced wake turbulence and violent shakes, and the outside temperature rose to 164 degrees centigrade for around 15 seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		The pilots, now, I haven't spoken to the pilots of the Erlingus plane yet.
		It's all been covered up.
		There's been denial at every single stage.
unidentified		Well, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say that there would be a record of such a temperature rise, for example, in the aircraft's equipment.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I'm indebted to the principal investigators, Dermot Butler and Carl Nalley of Dublin.
		Carl is a pilot himself, a private pilot.
		They were the people that got the information in the first place.
		I went to Dublin in November to try and get more information.
		I haven't yet met the pilots of the Erlingus plane, and I tried to speak to some Erlingus pilots on this flight over to Dublin, and absolutely there was annoyance on the flight deck that I'd actually tried to get information about the case, and they refused to talk to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't blame them.
		John Lear is a good friend of mine.
		He's lost at least one job because of what he's said.
		They can't talk about it.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know John, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, they have families.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you.
		Yeah, exactly.
		The aircraft's wings were dented, badly dented.
		The air brakes malfunctioned.
		So this was an emergency situation which was declared.
		The plane had to be taken out, and it had to be repaired by Boeing.
		And it's now been sold to Thailand, to Thai Airways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		No, that's absolutely correct.
		And this, you know, it also happened to another aircraft, another aircraft a couple of hours later on that same day.
		What is peculiar, you know, I talked about a fly in the ointment, there's always a stumbling block in cases, is that I gave an interview in the Irish Star in November, and we are appealing for witnesses to come forward, because there are people on the plane who are very frightened by the incident.
		I can't believe they've all been silenced on landing, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, have they apparently been?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I have no evidence of that whatsoever.
		I think it's peculiar that someone hasn't come forward, but I don't doubt my sources.
		And I don't doubt that such events take place.
		And I'd like to mention these triangles briefly.
		I think some of the listeners will be aware, those of us who sort of surf the internet, of this extraordinary case of a flying triangle seen by a witness, a musician, in Bristol, Tennessee, on October 2 of last year.
		Very good case and a very good illustration of the craft as well.
		And he was nearing an intersection near his home and exited his car to see if there was a fire, because it looked like a fire coming from between the trees and some distance away.
		And slowly emerged this enormous triangular-shaped craft.
		He started to run, but realized there was nowhere to run to, so he just stood in awe and watched.
		And it slowly came into full view, estimated at 300 feet at each end sides of the triangle, and only 100 feet or so high, in altitude, in other words, blocking out the entire sky.
		And there were large domes, as often these are seen, comparing each dome, he said, to twice the size of a car, illuminating the entire bottom, three of those domes at the apex of each corner of the triangles.
		And rib-like structures.
		And this has been reported before.
		I've spoken to several witnesses, including one in the Midlands in the 1990s, who saw a very, very similar craft with these rib-like structures underneath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Timothy, let me stop you just for a moment.
		You're speaking to a witness.
		This happened to me.
		In other words, Timothy, I was coming home with my wife many years ago now, and my wife yelled, what the hell's that?
		Or something to that effect.
		She was in the passenger seat, and I stopped the car, and we got out.
		And a black triangle, not flying, but floating, Timothy, passed not more than 150 feet above our head.
		The moon and the stars all went away.
		It was as classic as you can possibly imagine.
		It didn't make a sound.
		You could hear crickets at a quarter mile away.
		It floated over our head and then continued floating toward what we call Area 51 that we're not far from here.
		But Timothy, this happened to me.
		I've done paintings and drawings of exactly what it was like, where our car was, what the geography was like, the whole smear, and what it looked like to us.
		I could have thrown a rock at the thing, except Timothy, that I was in shock.
		So, you see, I've seen this myself.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to have a sketch of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I have it.
		We had an artist do it for us, and we did GPS readings, and they came out and looked at the terrain and got everything exactly as it was.
		Exactly as it was.
		I've got a giant thing on the wall of it.
		So I guess I'm a believer, Timothy.
		How can you not be when something dramatic happens to you?
		But you know what?
		I don't know if it was something military.
		If it was, then we have the secret of anti-gravity, apparently.
		We have the secret of noiseless propulsion.
		We have quite a few secrets.
		And that they would fly it right over my head.
		And here in the U.S., these triangles are appearing over major interstate highways.
		It's wild.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		It's wild.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		One would wonder why, you know, if they are American devices, why they would want to show themselves overtly, as they obviously have done on many occasions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		But at the same time, I think some, a percentage, don't ask me to put a number to it, but a percentage of these craft could well be our own.
		And that applies over here as well, because some of them have been seen near, like British Aerospace, like Wharton, up in the North Country, for example.
		So it's possible.
		On the other hand, it could be that these bases where we are developing all sorts of new types of aircraft are just being sort of overflown and checked out by the aliens.
		Who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, we have endless tales of back-engineering of alien craft at that area near me, Area 51.
		I don't know if that's true, but certainly if we laid our hands on technology like that, we'd do our very damn level best to try and figure out how it worked and duplicate it.
		That would be a natural thing to do.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		No question about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any witnesses of people, I don't know, people who claim to have worked on craft like this?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Well, I mean, you know, in my book, Alien Contact, I've got quite a number of chapters on the claims of Bob Lazar and others.
		And whereas I think there was something to that story, the problem is that Bob Lazar is not the nuclear physicist he claims to be.
		That's number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that he was at Area 51, that he was, in fact, employed to do something?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wondered why someone who's not qualified would be sort of hired to go there.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think if he was there, it was more as a sort of part of a disclosure project just to see what people would come out with.
unidentified		And he was exposed to some of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think, other than Roswell, are the best cases that you would name?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness, me.
		There are so many.
		We have in Great Britain the Rendlesham Forrest case, December 1980, when many U.S. Air Force security policemen encountered a landed craft, triangular craft.
		And events were going on for several days.
		The deputy base commander himself, then Lieutenant Colonel Charles Holt at Woodbridge, these were twin Air Force bases of Woodbridge and Bentwaters himself saw some of these things.
		There were other craft seen in the skies.
		There were traces left.
		Nick Pope himself was able to get hold of the radiation readings, which were certainly above normal.
		There have been all sorts of explanations and attempts to debunk it.
		The most recent one being that it was just some U.S. serviceman going up and down the runway with a red light on top of the vehicle.
		But that was the explanation for it.
		But, you know, this went on for several days.
		There were lots of witnesses involved.
		And I find it an intriguing, very important case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In my years of interviewing people, I had occasion to interview somebody named Travis Walton and Travis' boss.
		As a matter of fact, I interviewed as well, both of them at once.
		And they told an incredibly compelling, believable story.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I interviewed Travis Walton.
		For me, he's absolutely on the level.
		That's one of the most important contact stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought so.
		You know, just as you listened to the man, it was clear that he really had absolutely zero interest prior to this event.
		It was just a plain man, you know, telling the truth.
		I mean, it sounded like the absolute truth.
		And, of course, they went through, as you know, lie detector tests, a couple of them.
		So you also found that to be a pretty...
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		And I think one of the most intriguing aspects of it was nothing was ever said at any time while he was on board the craft.
		And he had these good-looking men and women show him around, and he would ask questions.
		And I think prior to all that, he was playing around with controls on this seat, and he rendered the craft invisible, opaque at one stage, so that he could see out into the universe, which was extraordinary.
		But most important, I think, is this connection between these strange, large-eyed, very pasty-colored skin beings.
		Do you remember all that who grabbed hold of him and he fought them off?
		And, you know, it does appear to me that those were sort of like biological robots who were subservient to these more human-like types.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody wants to know why, and I guess that's the one question you're not going to be able to answer for us, really.
		Why, why all this is going on, when it's going to come to some sort of end?
		Well, that is a question perhaps I can proffer.
		When do you think that general knowledge of the truth about enough of this will be realized?
		How close are we getting?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		About five years ago, I asked that question to one of my friends in Washington.
		And I said, look, can you imagine how frustrating this is for me?
		You know, I'm, well, at the time, I was sort of in my late 50s.
		And I said, look, you know, I've been interested since 1955.
		There's this constant ridicule from the media and the government and everything.
		You know, when is there going to be some official recognition?
		And he said two words.
unidentified		Stay healthy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay healthy.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		And since then, he and others have intimated that gradual exposure is the only way forward.
		They are concerned about overreaction of the public.
		But I think various safety nets have been put into place, one of which is, as I've said, some of the facts have been leaked to a number of journalists, highly placed journalists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Timothy, maybe it's time that you took the test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you were given the opportunity to reveal to the world the complete truth about alien visitation presence and motives and history, and it was all given to you, and you could release all the information.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I could release it because I'm not an authority.
		I'm not a politician.
		So I wouldn't really have that much to lose.
		And in fact, I have come out with a lot of this stuff, and it's either just disbelieved or ridiculed.
		But when somebody in a really prominent position of authority comes up with this stuff, it's much, much more difficult because it's embarrassing above all.
		We're not in control.
		Nobody likes to look out of control, particularly politicians.
		They like to tell us, as you know, how everything's great with the world and so on and so forth.
		And to admit that there are outside forces against whom we have little or no control whatsoever is political suicide and military suicide as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite right.
		If they can't control it, then they don't even admit it's there, and that certainly is the course they've been following.
		It's just that it seems like eventually it does have to break.
		And I guess you were told then that as long as you can remain for another, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years, whatever, then you're likely to get to experience the great disclosure.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I think what is happening, what I've noticed, and I'm not alone in this, is that there has been an improvement to a certain extent in the media, in the national and international media, with regard to reporting on this subject more seriously.
		I mean, certainly in terms of our recent Freedom of Information Act, a lot of reports.
		And I've got here from 19th of December last year a huge article in a broadsheet, The Independent on Sunday, an article by a regular columnist, Andy Martin, reporting that in Cambridge in England, you know, where the university is, he and his family saw this giant craft just hovering and going over him, no more than at a height of more than 400 or 500 feet.
		No noise, he said.
		Dark outside outline of a craft.
		It was nothing like an aircraft.
		There were no wings poking out the sides.
		Definitely jumbo-sized.
		It wasn't going up and it wasn't coming down.
		And, you know, that's from a good journalist.
		And another journalist, the editor of a paper in southern England, the Southern Daily Echo, reported seeing a large triangular craft in the New Forest.
		That's in Hampshire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		We are at the top of the hour, and we're going to go to tones very shortly.
		Hold on, Timothy.
		I'll tell you what I told ABC.
		I told them that after seeing what I saw, whether it's us, our back-engineered craft, or even our own craft that now defy gravity, or it's theirs, either way, either way, disclosure of this, oh, that'd be a really big story.
unidentified		Right?
		And that's all we do I will not help
		Yeah I, I, I, I, I All those tears I cry I, I, I, I All those tears I cry Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Baby, please don't go To talk with Art Bell.
		Form a wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may recharge by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 80893-0903.
		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As I said, with the ABC special coming up on Thursday, the 24th, 8 to 10, a major page in ufology gets turned.
		Or the major network finally doing a serious investigative report on ufology.
		My guest is a ufologist.
		I guess that's fair.
		Timothy Goode, one of the world's best available for your questions.
		If he knows the answer, I'm sure he'll take a stab at it.
		Your opportunity with Timothy Good coming up.
		Okay, once again, Timothy Good with us this evening, one of the world's best ufologists, a lot of books under his belt.
		Alien Update is one, unearthly disclosure, conflicting interests in the control of extraterrestrial intelligence, alien base, Earth's encounters with extraterrestrials, alien liaison, the ultimate secret, beyond top secret, a worldwide UFO security threat, and of course above top secret, the worldwide UFO cover-up.
		And, you know, interestingly, I found a photograph of the painting that was done of what Ramona and I experienced.
		And it's sideways.
		It's the wrong aspect ratio to try and put on, but I'm going to try it.
		It's going to squeeze it weirdly, I think, if I try and put it in my webcam slot.
		But I'm going to see what I can do about that in the next hour.
		And if I can, I'll get it up there on my webcam.
		If it looks too silly when it gets squished, I won't do it.
		Once again, here's Timothy Goode, and I would like, of course, to get to some calls this hour.
		But Timothy, is there anything that we didn't cover in the first couple of hours that we absolutely should?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh, there's tons of stuff out.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I guess it would be more of interest to listeners if I mentioned things that they may not be familiar with at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Now, for example, well, they may be vaguely familiar.
		Back in March of 1997, there was a report that a large triangular craft was seen above the house of Michael Howard, who was then Home Secretary, living down in the marshlands of southern Kent.
		And the event was witnessed by a journalist who I spoke to.
		There were other witnesses involved who subsequently came forward.
		This craft alternately hovered right above Michael Howard's house.
		He's currently leader of the Conservative Party and he's hoping to win the election, which we're going to have in May.
		But I have got an official request has been put in for information about the event and his opinions and so forth.
		And I've already had acknowledgement that he will indeed be replying to this.
		So stay tuned.
		I'll let you know what he says about it.
		But interestingly, this craft alternately hovered right above his house and then retreated, you know, like four or five hundred yards.
		Then it came back again, and this was going on.
		And at one stage, all the alarms were set off because, obviously, being home secretary at the time, a lot of security guards around the place and dogs and so forth.
		And there was pandemonium.
		And this was witnessed by a number of people, including some firemen.
		So something happened.
		And I think that's very interesting.
		And, you know, talking about, as we were earlier, about politicians and UFOs.
		But this is an election year.
		And the least likely subject that any politician is going to get involved with is UFOs.
		That's for sure.
		And as far as your president is concerned, I do know someone who is a friend of his and has on several occasions asked him.
		And the last time he asked him was in late 2003, I believe.
		And he said, oh, come on, you know, tell me, you know, blah, blah, blah.
		And this chap said, ask Cheney.
		That is what George Bush replied.
		Whether that's helpful to anybody, I don't know, but that's what your president said regarding the UFO subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do I think that's a reasonable answer?
		I don't think so, too.
		I have a feeling if anybody knows, it's Dick Cheney.
		All right.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I'm George Bush, Sr.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Former President Bush knows a great deal about the subject, that I can tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		If you have an opportunity to get to the Coast to Coast AM website, I just took a picture of the picture and put it on my webcam up there.
		Now, unfortunately, the proportions are not quite right, but they're close.
		I had to squish it to get it in there because it only allows a certain size photograph, 320 by 240, and those are not the appropriate, but it'll be up there in the next five or ten minutes.
		So I would love you to see that, Timothy.
		It's exactly what we saw.
		It'll be up there very shortly.
		In the meantime, here are some people who want to talk to you.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Timothy.
		Good.
		Hi.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who are you?
unidentified		Oh, it's Bob from Los Angeles.
unidentified		Just heard caught me off guard there for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry about that.
unidentified		Well, anyway, I appreciate Timothy.
		Good, all your hard work and research into this field because I've conducted 20 years of my life trying to get answers too as well because I worked in defense and I worked in general aviation for about 12 years.
		And I have had enough evidence shown me, and I've seen enough stuff to know that there is definitely something going on.
		So just know that in this field, if you really do investigate it too far, you will have uncomfortable situations where people will threaten you.
		I was just wondering if you've been threatened too as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very, very good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Timothy, indeed, as you begin to probe secrets and get into areas that perhaps the government is not yet ready to be disclosed, are there ever times when you have been, do you feel in danger?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I appreciate the extraordinary shrieking sounds, howling sounds on the telephone when engaged in interesting conversations, particularly with my American friends.
		I've also, on several occasions, had items taken from my room.
		I was in, I think it was Virginia, in the 1970s, touring with a London Symphony Orchestra at a motel.
		I noticed two government pool cards were outside.
		I didn't pay too much attention to it.
		And I went to lunch, and when I came back, my room, someone had been in my room and taken my research notes, but left expensive cameras and zoom lenses and stuff in the room.
		So I had no research material with me.
		Things like that have happened.
		I could go into other cases.
		There was a case in, I think it was Raleigh, North Carolina, when I was appearing on a local television station.
		And this is my own fault.
		I thought I'd just test the system.
		I noticed that there was a U.S. Army base, headquarters of the U.S. Army Reserve in Raleigh, North Carolina, not all that far from my motel.
		So during this television interview, I happened to mention the alleged briefing about the UFO situation, which was given to U.S. Army Reserve officers in Puerto Rico in the late, late 80s.
		And I just thought, I wondered whether there would be any repercussions.
		Well, when I came, I also advertised the fact that I would be giving a small talk to some invited guests at the motel at lunchtime.
		I went back, I gave the talk, I came back to my room, and a lot of stuff had been stolen from my girlfriend as well at the time.
		A lot of stuff.
		Now, it could have been somebody.
		It could have been an inside job.
		I must state that at the outset.
		At the same time, the police were not that cooperative.
		The best I learnt was that the hotels had hardly ever been broken into.
		There were about 400 other rooms.
		Nobody else's room had been taken.
		So do you think that's intimidation?
		Do you think that was done by some military guys?
		I don't know.
		I keep an open mind about it.
		But those are some of the things that have happened to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So obviously they've perhaps suggested to you that, what, you should be slowing up a little.
		You should be more careful about what you say.
		What do you think the message might have been?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Probably the latter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fair answer.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		With Timothy Goode, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning to you both, and it's always an honor, Art.
		This is Robin in Boulder, Colorado, and I'll be brief.
		I wonder if the gentleman would know of a way for a human to initiate contact, should one desire it.
		And would he care to comment on, I hope I've got the name right, Billie Meyer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, very good.
		Actually, both good questions.
		One.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I didn't get the lady's first name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, she's gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at any rate, two good questions.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, she's from Colorado.
		Yes.
		The way to initiate contact, my goodness me, some people don't need to initiate contact, apparently, especially if they're abducted out of their bedrooms in the middle of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you say she should be careful what she wishes for?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I would, actually.
		My feeling is that one should always ask for protection in these cases.
		One way to initiate contact, which worked for me on two occasions, which I discussed on this program, I believe back in August when I was last on, is to try telepathy, because these beings are very telepathic.
		And I don't know about the current timeframe, but there were a number of these people based on our planet at the time, and they can pick up your thoughts.
		And they have interacted with human beings who've sent out telepathic signals.
		It certainly worked for me, and I had my own very close encounter through that.
		Second part of your question, as far as Billy Meyer is concerned, you might be surprised to learn that I actually discovered Billy Meyer when I was in India in 1964.
		I didn't meet him then, but I met his friends.
		This was long before the story had come out.
		And I then traced him to Switzerland, and I spoke to him, and I thought he sounded sincere.
		However, in the 1970s, when Lou Zinstag, who got to know him, because I gave her his address, she spent a lot of time with him and thought he was sincere and everything.
		But I became very, very dubious about the photographs that he was promoting for all sorts of reasons, which we probably don't have time to go into now.
		And I know many people think they're genuine, but I do not.
		But I do think that Billy Meyer did have contact at some time.
		And then maybe just to sort of gain more credence in these stories, he produced the photographs.
		But he's an interesting character, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That brings to mind another question that I really have to ask.
		I look at ufology, and I've been looking at ufology and interviewing ufologists and both sides of the question for years and years and years, Timothy.
		And the one thing that I have learned is that ufology is probably its own worst enemy.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And at various times, people come on this program and they virtually shred each other, as if it's not tough enough with the mass media out there and the government and all the institutions laughing and it's not tough enough.
		We have to destroy ourselves.
		Do you have comments on that?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, I'm afraid there's always going to be rivalry and politics in any sphere of, in any subject, and ufology is no exception.
		I think it's not just people sort of knocking each other that's the problem.
		There's also, I think, the people with wild claims, really wild unproven claims, who come forward and get an awful lot of attention.
		I'm not going to go into any names, but I think that does a great deal more harm to the subject and it plays into the government's and the media's hands when people make these wild claims.
		I don't know what you think about that, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What percentage of UFO stories and contact stories and all the rest of it would you say is legitimate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what percentage would you think are outright frauds?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Wow, I'm no good at math, but outright frauds, I don't know.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, I don't know, but I would say the percentage of absolutely legitimate cases and legitimate claimants is relatively small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would say that the bulk of them, or even the majority of them, would be fair, if not frauds, are simply untrue.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, or a mixture, you know, or, you know, people suffering from delusions or what.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, even if it's a minority, a minority can be 49% art, which is a high percentage, you would say, oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know.
		As I say, I'm no good at math.
		I haven't actually gone through all the tens of thousands of cases there are.
		I mean, there's so much stuff.
		We suffer from a surfeit of information.
		It's not, as a lot of people say, that there's not enough information to go on.
		There's too much information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's try this approach.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of the claims that you have investigated, how many times have you found yourself disappointed?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Many times.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Many, many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not enough that you dismiss the entire phenomenon obviously.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Obviously not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that sure does make it a tough job, Timothy, a really hard job, because most of these claims, by their very nature, are pretty fantastic, aren't they?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even the ones, for example, the photograph that I've got up, I hope you get a chance to see it.
		It's just a picture of a picture, but it represents exactly what I saw, even though the proportions are scrunched down a little.
		Sorry for that.
		That's exactly what I saw, and it's how close it was to my eye.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I can't wait to get online.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you've seen something like that, it changes you forever, or at least until you get a legitimate explanation for what otherwise cannot be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, East of the Rockies.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		May I mention very briefly, in case it gets forgotten, I am going to be in the States in April and speaking at the Ozark UFO Conference, the annual Ozark UFO conference, which is www.ozarkufo.com, all lowercase, OZARKUFO.com.
		And the other speakers include Linda Howe, Grant Cameron, Wendell Stevens, Nancy Talbot, and Scott Ramsey, who will be discussing the Aztec case of 1948.
		He's got a lot of new evidence for that.
		Bill Hamilton, and David Mahler, who will be discussing flying triangles in particular.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite an impressive list, all right.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		And there are two other, Wendell Stevens will be there as well.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		There's also two speakers to be announced who hasn't been fixed yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		It's a great conference, and I hope to see some of the listeners there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		8th to the 10th of April inclusive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's important.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Timothy Goode.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, Lord.
		This is Keith in Hamilton, Ontario.
		Yes, Keith.
		Hi, Timothy.
		I wanted to ask you about UFO abductees.
		In many cases, they claim there was a chip embedded in their neck or arm, and they had them surgically removed.
		My question is, is there any assessment or analysis on just what exactly these things are, and are they man-made?
		Thank you.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, let me mention that Roger Lear, L-E-I-R, has written a book on his investigations, his extraction of some of these objects from quite a number of patients.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you looked into these?
		I've, of course, interviewed Dr. Lear.
		Roger's a good friend.
		And have you looked into his book and his claims?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have, but not as thoroughly as I would like.
		For example, I haven't seen the famous video of the moving implant.
		I expect you're aware of that, where it moves around underneath someone's arm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it was an ear.
		It may be an arm as well, but Whitley Striber, a very good friend of mine, co-author of the book we wrote that became the movie, he had an implant that moved.
		They tried to retrieve it from his ear, and the damn thing, the scalpel touched it, and it moved.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Also, the late Dr. John Altschuler, a hematologist, and the first to investigate the animal mutilations, was also the first to excise unknown foreign objects from a few patients, and one of which he thought was just sort of aggregation of human tissue.
		One other one he couldn't explain.
		He was just baffled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think there could be something to it.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		But again, I think a lot of things, everyone thinks they've got chips embedded in them, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are a lot of those.
		Timothy Goode is my guest, a ufologist in Great Britain, all the way across the ocean.
		You have a question for him?
		That's what we're here for.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have been on a hair of what I am It's all clear to me now My heart is on fire
		I'm Art
		Bell, and this is Coast AM I'm Art
		Bell, and this is Coast AM I'm Art
		Bell, and this is Coast AM To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And there you have it.
		It's on my website now, or the website on my webcam.
		It says Arts Webcam.
		Go to CoastToCoastAM.com.
		upper left-hand corner, it says Art's webcam.
		I would swear to you on a stack of Bibles, as would my wife, It's actually a much higher resolution picture, so it's squished, but that's exactly what we saw.
		The proportion actually is pretty close in terms of the vehicle.
		You can judge by how my Geometro is squished a little bit, how the rest of it is squished, but that's it, baby.
		That's what we saw, and I'd swear that on a stack of Bibles.
		We'll be back in just a moment.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true that Britain just got, just literally got a Freedom of Information Act.
		And apparently Timothy feels that, well, they were ready for it by the time it came out.
		You may recall in the Roswell situation when we had a man in Congress who actually went after the information.
		The only answer he ever got was, whoops.
		He had shipped.
		Yes.
		And it looks like these files have been destroyed.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or lost, I think they said, or lost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or both.
unidentified		Or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think much the same kind of thing happened there in Britain with your new Freedom of Information Act?
unidentified		Probably in some cases, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		First home caller line, you're on the air with Timothy.
		Good.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		I was wanting to find out from Timothy, how many people do you believe, if you believe, I'm not sure if you do or not, are possibly descendants from an alien race or people from the UFOs and stuff, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, it's a reasonable enough question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it's a genetic connection, then how many of us do you feel are descendants of aliens?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think indirectly, maybe, you know, the whole planet has been affected in some way by genetic manipulation going way, way back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So one way or the other.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		One way or the other.
		I can't say that, but I know that to be a fact.
		But, you know, it's my belief that there was genetic manipulation of primitive man when we first made our appearance on this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Another question would be, and I think I'll ask you, do you think that there's any possibility that we are not the first?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by that I mean the first intelligent occupants of Earth?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad you raised that, Art.
		I've written about that in my books.
		think it's quite likely that many many aeons of time ago there were advanced races who'd maybe colonized this planet and they were through some cataclysm were forced to seek other habitation in that connection I'm very interested in He's a scientist, a meteorologist from Brazil.
		He's also a former CIA communications specialist, and he's been on numerous Antarctic expeditions as a meteorologist, including many with the United States Navy.
		He had a type of contact with ETs and was given proof of their, for example, their ability to change weather because he was a meteorologist, and they certainly proved their existence To him, he saw their craft.
		And he said, These cosmic visitors proclaim a genetic origin linked to our own species on Earth, though they inhabit a dying planet where we would have to manipulate time and space dimensions to reach.
		And that's what Rubens Villella wrote in a letter to Michael Collins, the Apollo 11 astronaut in 1979.
		And remember, he himself acknowledged that there were several species coming here, and in particular, with the species that he was familiar with, he said, they desire an alliance without fear and offer us protection against impending cosmic dangers.
		I also learnt and emphasized, Rubens Vilella, certain other alien species are inimical to human beings, so there are dangers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have there been mentions, Timothy, of not just bombs that we might do ourselves away with, but our current environmental situation, which seems quite distressing.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		The contactee, for example, Enrique Castillo-Rincon, I've written several chapters about him in my last book, Unearthly Disclosure, and he was given a tremendous amount of information about coming cataclysms on this planet.
		He actually says, I do not give an account of the calamities announced by the instrument because they had information covering many years as to how the facts will unwind.
		And he goes into some detail.
		I'm just checking through my book here.
		I can't remember everything.
		He was taken to several alien bases, one of which was under the Pacific Ocean in the Marianas Trench, which is about 11,500 meters down.
		But the base was located in a wall of that area.
		And an extraordinary story.
		And he was given information about coming events on this planet, including enormous geological cataclysms and the fact that the sun, there would be problems with our sun, which would lead to severe, very severe problems on Earth.
		And he goes into some detail about that.
		I can't remember chapter and verse, Art.
		I'm sorry, right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite all right, Timothy.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air with Timothy.
		Good.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I was wondering what is the significance of the triangle versus the disc?
		Are the aliens doing the disc, and maybe man did the triangle because it was better to maneuver electrically now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like the answer to that one myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Timothy?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I didn't actually hear the triangle is under what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was asking about the significance of the triangle versus the disc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, he was suggesting.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		His voice was incredibly distinctive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that the disc might be alien, he felt, while the triangle might be more earthly in orange.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no.
		Triangles have been seen for a very, very long time.
		It's just no way they can all be terrestrial.
		So, you know, there have many different types of craft.
		Many, many different shapes have been observed, and triangle is just one of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Timothy.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, gentlemen.
unidentified		This is Rick in Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Rick.
unidentified		First, let me just say this, and I have the most respect for both of you gentlemen.
		I don't believe in any of this UFO stuff.
		I never have.
		I am a hardcore Bible-believing Christian.
		But that being said, I do believe people are seeing things, no doubt about it.
		But my question, sir, is if in this day and age we live in, such a new age, such all different things, you know, anything goes, why would the government hide these things?
		And if these things exist, just tell us.
		I mean, obviously I have my own opinion on what these are, just like most Christians.
		And I have another quick question.
		Survey true Christians, and if you ever have done that to see exactly what the percentage of their sightings or their abductions would be, I think you'll find that it's almost 0%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask you a question, caller?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it turned out that you were entirely wrong, and this really was various other intelligent races visiting Earth for whatever motivation, and that actually turned out to be the case irrefutably, how disturbed by that fact would you be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, honestly.
unidentified		Let me just say this real quick.
		When God created the universe, okay, before Satan fell, we don't know what was out there.
		When Satan fell, the earth and the universe was corrupt forever.
		So yes, there could be, because when God said let there be, the universe is still being.
		Okay?
		That's all I can say about that.
		How upset would I be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		As a Christian and a follower of God and Jesus, I would accept it.
unidentified		But the point is, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you accept it if it included a story that your vision of creation, your belief and faith in the way creation occurred just wasn't so?
unidentified		Well, see, that's a hard question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely agree.
unidentified		Because that's my beliefs.
		And you know what?
		Let me say this, Art.
		I believe you're a man that's searching.
		I really feel that.
		I've listened to you for almost a year.
		And, God, I hope you find the true hope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, answer my question, though.
		I know it's hard, but answer it anyway.
		if it turned out irrefutably that they were our creators, not the way it's in the Bible, that would put you in tilt, wouldn't it?
unidentified		Well, I guess that would...
		Okay, I understand it.
		If there is a God that is a perfect God, right, and makes no mistakes, then why would he make the horrible mistake of sending his Son to be our Savior?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, it seemed to me that Timothy seemed to suggest, if you were listening carefully between the lines, that Jesus might have been an alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Timothy?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I did suggest that.
		Jesus said in the book of John on two occasions, I am not of this world.
		Now, I'm sure Rick will Say, well, of course, that was just metaphorical, which it well might have been.
		I wasn't there.
		But you can't get away from the star of Bethlehem, the bodily ascension into heaven surrounded by two beings in shining raiment, his remarkable abilities, and so forth, and the appearance to the conversion of Paul on the road to Damascus when Jesus appeared in some kind of brilliant object in the sky.
		Things like that, I think, and of course the angel Gabriel, what are angels?
		They're not creatures with flapping wings.
		An angel simply means a messenger, and they're normally described, even if they come from the heavens, meaning the sky, possibly as human beings, human-type beings.
		And that goes into the Old Testament as well, because people who encountered mysterious beings coming from the sky said, and this was their appearance.
		They had the appearance of man.
		That's Ezekiel, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, would you say that people like Rick, and he sounded like a very nice guy, but he did dance around that question quite a bit, as in not actually answering it.
		He would go on tilt for sure if that kind of irrefutable proof was presented to him because it would violate everything he believes and has faith in.
		And Brookings Institute, I think, said that for that very reason we couldn't disclose this.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		I think religious sensitivity is certainly one of the reasons for the cover-up because of the connection.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		And I can sympathize with governments on that level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So can I. West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Timothy Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
unidentified		This is Carrie calling from Tucson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Timothy, a while back, last year when you were in Tucson, Arizona, you interviewed a friend of mine about his encounter when he was back in the 70s when he was in the.
		Yes, Bill.
		Yes.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
		I did, indeed.
		And we talked about that.
		He came on the show in August with George Noyer.
		A terrific story.
		And I interviewed him for many hours.
		And I find this a compelling story.
		He only got a couple of points wrong.
		The incident took place not in 1975, as he thought it, but it was 1976 on board the USS Forrestal, when, to cut a long story short, there was a NASA shockwave test, which I have found did definitely take place, because I'm doing a lot of research into that case.
unidentified		Yeah, I was going to ask you.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		And then these unidentified submarine objects appeared in a completely smooth sea.
		The sea suddenly went smooth.
		Two circular craft and two triangular craft with all sorts of lights on them came up from the sea and the seam.
		And there's a lot, lot more to that story, but I don't want to compromise Bill in any way, and I don't want to compromise my own investigations because I am in touch with some naval people about this case.
unidentified		Ah, well, I'll let him know, okay?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Sorry?
unidentified		I'll let him know, because I tried to get him hold of him tonight, but I couldn't get a hold of him.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		He's not on the Internet, of course, and I was going to phone him, but it just slipped my mind at the last time and so forth, because I would have liked him.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Usually he listens to this show always.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't know where he is tonight.
unidentified		I tried to get a hold of him.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Give him my warmest regards.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you this.
		He would have a chance of getting in.
		We've got every single phone line is locked up.
		Internet.
		You're on the air with Timothy Good.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		The question I have with all of the I too am a Christian.
		My name is Patrick from Oklahoma.
		And I too am a Christian, but all of this is rather spine-tinkling type of conversation and realization.
		But my question is, do you have any stories of times that you've come across aliens or stories of aliens or UFOs that just gave you a sense of evil definitively?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's an excellent question.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question.
		And yes, indeed, I have.
		And whether these beings are aliens or from other dimensions, you know, it's not necessarily a safe universe with beings of sweetness and light.
		I mean, as above, so below.
		There's good and there is evil.
		And undoubtedly, in my opinion, there are beings from elsewhere who I would term evil, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then he would say, if he were still here, well, yes, evil, of course evil, because really we're not talking about aliens.
		We're talking about Lucifer and his influence here on Earth.
		Christians would say, well, that's real.
		Sure, it's real.
		It's Lucifer at work.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't comment on that.
		I'm not sure if I believe in a specific being that's responsible for evil.
		I think it goes way beyond that, but probably beyond my comprehension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, though, it comes back to the faith that so many...
		It's not as though it's changed.
		Christians believe what they believe.
		We have people in the world who are willing to kill us unless we are willing to believe what they believe.
		I mean, people are living and dying and fighting wars for what they believe about God.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		True, and a lot of Christians went around in their tens of thousands killing people who didn't believe in Christianity as well.
		So, I mean, it works on.
		But I think we've sort of hopefully got past that stage now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe, but isn't what you have described, when you really get down to the bare bones of it, almost a new religion?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, in fact, many religions have been engendered as a result of people becoming fanatically obsessed with UFOs.
		And it's inextricable link between these subjects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		On the one hand, they're linked, and on the other hand, they're at absolute odds with each other.
		And I think that's what prevents full disclosure.
		But maybe I'm wrong about that.
		I've thought that all these years, ever since the Brookings report.
		I don't think much has changed in the world.
		Even though we have a more modern world with all these great technological conveniences, it's still people's faith.
		And a lot of what's said by ufologists, really bottom line, Timothy, it does challenge that faith.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Not just ufology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think the open-minded ones, then, would and should read your books.
		Is there any first book, since you've got so many, that people should read?
		Probably your latest, I'm sure, right?
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I wouldn't recommend that to start off with.
		Unearthly Disclosure really goes to the outer limits.
		Probably the best is Beyond Top Secret.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beyond Top Secret.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think probably.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		But unfortunately, nearly all these books are out of print.
		I think there may be some copies of Alien Base and Unearthly Disclosure available on Amazon.
		But Above Top Secret, Beyond Top Secret, Alien Contact and so forth are all out of print.
		And you can try Amazon, but I wish some of them would be reprinted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe they will.
		Timothy Good, it has been a pleasure, as always, to have you all the way across from Great Britain.
		Thank you.
timothy good ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much indeed, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good night, my friend.
		And don't forget, folks, set those VCRs and whatever it is you've got Thursday, 8 o'clock, 7 Central ABC UFOs prime time, ABC with Peter Jennings.
		I'm Art Bell from the Hot Desert.
		It is coming up on 2 a.m. here in the wet desert.

▲